[00:00.000 --> 00:03.120]  If you or someone you know is in foreclosure, listen carefully.
[00:03.400 --> 00:06.820]  There's a new scam in town targeting homeowners in foreclosure.
[00:07.160 --> 00:08.140]  Here's how it works.
[00:08.340 --> 00:14.100]  Scammers promise to save you from foreclosure, telling you all you have to do is sign over the deed to your home.
[00:14.560 --> 00:18.920]  They say you can lease your home from them and then buy it back once you're on your financial feet.
[00:19.280 --> 00:20.760]  Perhaps they offer you some cash.
[00:20.960 --> 00:26.900]  After you've signed over your title, the scammer quickly gets a new mortgage on the property and evicts you from your home.
[00:26.900 --> 00:30.540]  You lose the equity and everything you've invested in your home.
[00:30.820 --> 00:37.120]  New York has a new law outlined foreclosure rescue scams that went into effect on February 1, 2007.
[00:37.380 --> 00:45.220]  These types of sale-lease-backed scams that target people of color, seniors, and women may also violate the Federal Fair Housing Act.
[00:45.480 --> 00:56.400]  If you believe you have been targeted by these scammers, please call New York City's Information Line 311 or NEDAP at 212-680-5100.
[00:57.560 --> 00:59.200]  Brought to you by NEDAP.
[01:01.340 --> 01:05.740]  And you are listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[01:05.960 --> 01:07.380]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[01:07.580 --> 01:09.980]  It's once again time for Off the Hook.
[03:37.170 --> 03:38.630]  Yeah, okay, we're on top of it.
[03:38.710 --> 03:40.530]  We noticed there's something different about the theme.
[03:41.530 --> 03:43.090]  You guys noticed it right away, didn't you?
[03:43.290 --> 03:43.750]  Oh, yeah.
[03:44.250 --> 03:45.750]  Yeah, it sounds a little different.
[03:45.750 --> 03:47.210]  I'm not sure exactly what happened.
[03:47.290 --> 03:49.850]  It's a little bit subdued this week.
[03:50.630 --> 03:51.490]  It sounds fine to me.
[03:51.650 --> 03:52.010]  It's what?
[03:52.430 --> 03:53.450]  It sounds fine to me.
[03:53.670 --> 03:54.850]  Well, it sounds a little fast, actually.
[03:54.850 --> 03:55.370]  It sounds good.
[03:55.510 --> 03:58.730]  Yeah, it's a little faster than I feel like, but I guess it's all right.
[03:58.730 --> 03:59.990]  But this is Off the Hook.
[04:00.170 --> 04:01.790]  Our theme doesn't usually sound like this.
[04:02.110 --> 04:03.090]  Something happened to it.
[04:04.270 --> 04:05.850]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[04:06.070 --> 04:07.890]  Joined this week by not Kevin.
[04:08.230 --> 04:08.550]  Hello.
[04:08.690 --> 04:09.370]  Dot Rhett.
[04:09.550 --> 04:09.750]  Hello.
[04:09.890 --> 04:10.250]  Rob T.
[04:10.350 --> 04:10.830]  Firefly.
[04:11.010 --> 04:11.330]  Good evening.
[04:11.530 --> 04:11.810]  Jim.
[04:12.090 --> 04:12.270]  Hi.
[04:12.710 --> 04:13.250]  Rhett Hack.
[04:13.490 --> 04:13.590]  Hello.
[04:13.930 --> 04:14.290]  Mike.
[04:14.670 --> 04:17.290]  Am I supposed to talk slowly?
[04:17.910 --> 04:18.470]  No.
[04:18.890 --> 04:20.010]  And Bernie down in Philadelphia.
[04:20.570 --> 04:21.550]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[04:22.670 --> 04:26.930]  Well, it's week three of our fundraising specials.
[04:26.930 --> 04:31.990]  And we think you'll like this show as well as the other two previously.
[04:32.130 --> 04:35.270]  We want to thank all the people who called in the last couple of weeks.
[04:35.390 --> 04:36.930]  We didn't get a chance to thank everybody on the air, I know.
[04:37.270 --> 04:43.490]  But we were able to do quite well, getting over $1,000 per hour, sometimes over $2,000.
[04:43.850 --> 04:46.910]  Hopefully we'll soar up into that level this week as well.
[04:47.270 --> 04:54.390]  Those of you who want to get a jump on it, just want to pledge and help us out and keep the station going, the phone number is 212-209-2950.
[04:56.370 --> 05:01.090]  Well, let's go over some things that are in the news before we get into some special presentations this week.
[05:01.670 --> 05:04.030]  I guess the theme goes longer because it's slower.
[05:04.210 --> 05:04.890]  Is that how it works?
[05:05.090 --> 05:05.370]  All right.
[05:05.910 --> 05:07.930]  Well, it's going to be fading out in a couple seconds.
[05:08.890 --> 05:10.210]  In fact, it's fading out right now.
[05:10.730 --> 05:11.590]  It's a slower fade.
[05:12.950 --> 05:19.850]  Okay, so somebody want to explain to me what all this Facebook nonsense is that I've been reading about in the newspapers and websites and things like that.
[05:20.250 --> 05:23.010]  Facebook apparently wants to own everybody's soul or something.
[05:23.450 --> 05:23.850]  What?
[05:23.950 --> 05:24.810]  You don't use Facebook?
[05:25.290 --> 05:27.670]  Well, actually, I do, but only very peripherally.
[05:27.770 --> 05:33.450]  I just come on occasionally to see, you know, how somebody got into trouble this week or something like that.
[05:33.570 --> 05:36.590]  But yeah, I've heard about this in the mainstream media, though.
[05:37.490 --> 05:37.890]  Yeah.
[05:37.890 --> 05:42.290]  Yeah, Facebook changed their terms of service so that it was...
[05:42.730 --> 05:50.950]  Before, it said that when you deleted your account, basically, that your content, your photos, and all your information, I guess, that you'd put in there belonged to you.
[05:51.090 --> 05:53.890]  And whether or not they deleted it, they didn't claim any ownership to it.
[05:54.230 --> 06:00.210]  And then they changed it so that, well, even if you delete your account, they own, for example, your photos.
[06:00.290 --> 06:02.730]  I think that's pretty much what most people were upset about.
[06:02.990 --> 06:06.850]  You know, I'm putting these things so my friends can see, and suddenly I don't own them anymore?
[06:06.850 --> 06:07.550]  Well, what is that?
[06:07.550 --> 06:08.890]  Why do they want to own that?
[06:09.350 --> 06:10.110]  I don't know.
[06:10.350 --> 06:12.290]  Who wants to own anything that's on Facebook?
[06:12.490 --> 06:15.590]  But then again, I wouldn't want to see my photo on an advertising billboard somewhere.
[06:15.610 --> 06:16.850]  Okay, for advertising purposes.
[06:17.030 --> 06:19.370]  A particularly funny photo of you, perhaps, for advertising purposes.
[06:19.470 --> 06:19.770]  Yes, not right.
[06:21.390 --> 06:27.170]  This morning, I saw in the news that they've actually switched the term service back until they figure out what to do after all the frenzy going on.
[06:27.290 --> 06:33.790]  Right, that was a big story, is that all this user pressure got them to about face or something like that.
[06:33.790 --> 06:53.810]  They even had a message so that for everyone that logged in, I noticed, I mean, I don't know what else's system, putting all your personal information on it.
[06:53.910 --> 06:56.210]  Of course, they're going to take it one way or another.
[06:56.270 --> 07:00.390]  Whether or not they claim ownership, they're still going to grab onto it and use it for some purposes.
[07:00.390 --> 07:01.610]  They're getting something out of this deal.
[07:01.790 --> 07:02.050]  Right.
[07:02.050 --> 07:07.330]  I think the best kind of social engineering service would be something actually run by users, but that would get started.
[07:07.470 --> 07:14.130]  Well, the thing that they get out of the deal already is the fact that they can make really, really targeted advertising based on all the personal information you feed them.
[07:15.130 --> 07:19.250]  Unfortunately, I don't know how well that's working for them because I don't think very many people actually click on those ads.
[07:20.290 --> 07:21.010]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[07:22.350 --> 07:28.470]  The story behind the story here is the EPIC, the Electronic Privacy Information Center or Council?
[07:28.630 --> 07:29.270]  I think center it is.
[07:29.950 --> 07:30.090]  Center.
[07:30.090 --> 07:45.330]  They were getting ready to file a legal brief to the Federal Trade Commission, insisting that the FTC ask Facebook to go back to its previous terms of service, saying this is very non-friendly to the consumer.
[07:46.010 --> 07:56.830]  And EPIC released this to the public, and 46,000 people joined a special Facebook group protesting the new terms of service.
[07:56.830 --> 08:06.710]  And the owner of Facebook, or the CEO or whatever, finally backed down and called EPIC and said, listen, we're thinking about going back.
[08:06.810 --> 08:09.490]  And then EPIC said, well, in that case, you wouldn't have to file this legal brief.
[08:09.610 --> 08:10.970]  So that's how it backed off.
[08:11.070 --> 08:16.050]  It wasn't without EPIC's involvement that this backed off.
[08:16.110 --> 08:18.290]  It looked for them to sneak this thing through sometime in the future.
[08:18.550 --> 08:18.930]  Yeah.
[08:19.070 --> 08:26.390]  And why don't these 50,000 or so people just simply start their own social networking site that actually makes sense and has terms that they can live with?
[08:26.390 --> 08:27.810]  It gives the user some control.
[08:27.930 --> 08:31.790]  I'm pretty sure joining a Facebook group to protest Facebook probably doesn't accomplish much.
[08:32.050 --> 08:35.310]  Now, how do the other social networking sites do it?
[08:35.390 --> 08:37.770]  MySpace, Twitter, those guys, what do they do?
[08:37.890 --> 08:39.630]  They all have different terms of service.
[08:40.610 --> 08:45.730]  In the case of Twitter, they don't claim any ownership of your content, although your content is very short.
[08:45.870 --> 08:47.850]  Who would want to own a Twitter message?
[08:48.090 --> 08:50.430]  Apparently not even Twitter would want to own a Twitter message.
[08:50.510 --> 08:53.130]  Who owns my text message when I send something via T-Mobile or something?
[08:53.130 --> 08:57.330]  You do because the common carriers don't claim ownership over your work.
[08:57.930 --> 08:58.690]  Well, thank God.
[08:58.790 --> 09:00.590]  Those text messages are safe then in my control.
[09:00.670 --> 09:06.710]  Your text messages may or may not be considered much work, but they all have different terms of service.
[09:07.130 --> 09:12.590]  YouTube, for instance, reserves the right to use your work in their advertising or other stuff.
[09:12.590 --> 09:14.710]  So how is that any different then from what Facebook is doing?
[09:14.770 --> 09:15.510]  I don't use YouTube.
[09:15.510 --> 09:36.570]  Well, one of the things I think is that from the outset, you have an understanding that what you're uploading to YouTube is public and is sort of in the public domain, whereas with this, even though you are uploading it to their servers, it still has the feeling of privacy because you can still choose with who you share information.
[09:36.570 --> 09:38.590]  How many thousand people you share it with.
[09:38.750 --> 09:40.570]  Right, but you still have that control over it.
[09:40.670 --> 09:44.190]  So whether or not it's true, it doesn't have the same feeling.
[09:44.190 --> 09:49.410]  I don't think it conveys the same feeling in people of privacy when you're posting stuff on YouTube.
[09:49.650 --> 10:03.890]  One other key difference is that YouTube's service terms state that their license ends when you delete the content from their server, whereas Facebook's proposed changes would have their rights survive the deletion.
[10:03.950 --> 10:06.710]  That was the main, I think, problem with the change.
[10:07.050 --> 10:07.350]  Okay.
[10:07.610 --> 10:13.370]  Well, the whole thing seems a bit silly to me, but then again, I think it's really silly how everybody throws all the information on there anyway.
[10:13.370 --> 10:18.290]  Anyway, it's incredible how quickly you can get information about people just by looking on these social networking sites.
[10:18.310 --> 10:24.590]  What I think is also interesting is what protection is there to the consumer that, okay, I've posted things, and then they change their terms of service.
[10:25.370 --> 10:27.230]  So now it's something I don't agree with.
[10:27.830 --> 10:32.310]  Do they still have the right under the new terms, or what's the situation then legally?
[10:32.470 --> 10:35.370]  I mean, it seems at least they should give you an opportunity to get all your stuff out of there.
[10:35.530 --> 10:37.570]  And it seemed like that didn't exist at all.
[10:37.670 --> 10:38.890]  But again, it is their service.
[10:38.890 --> 10:44.150]  They can just change the terms, and you're kind of screwed, especially if you're not paying anything for it.
[10:45.010 --> 10:45.730]  So, all right.
[10:45.750 --> 10:48.470]  Speaking of social networking, brings us to Twitter.
[10:48.730 --> 11:02.010]  And we didn't get a chance to talk about this, but I think in the move of the year, Representative Peter Hochstra twittered his secret arrival into Baghdad a couple of weeks ago.
[11:02.130 --> 11:03.270]  Just landed in Baghdad.
[11:03.270 --> 11:07.770]  I believe it may be the first time I've had BB service in Iraq, 11th trip here.
[11:08.010 --> 11:09.310]  He sent that from his Blackberry.
[11:09.370 --> 11:10.190]  That's what BB means.
[11:11.990 --> 11:17.250]  So, basically, this was supposedly something that they were trying not to have made public.
[11:17.250 --> 11:21.990]  And this idiot goes and Twitters it so the whole world can see what's going on.
[11:22.110 --> 11:24.930]  You have to wonder, what other kind of sensitive information is going out via Twitter?
[11:25.290 --> 11:27.310]  Yeah, I wonder if there's any U.S.
[11:27.410 --> 11:29.430]  Army soldiers that are tweeting about what they're doing.
[11:29.590 --> 11:30.170]  Oh, I'm sure.
[11:30.410 --> 11:30.810]  Somewhere out there.
[11:30.810 --> 11:34.830]  I'd be interested if anyone knows of anything like that or is doing it.
[11:34.930 --> 11:37.930]  It would be interesting if you could email us at OTH at 2600.com.
[11:38.190 --> 11:38.510]  Absolutely.
[11:39.490 --> 11:41.530]  Okay, here's an interesting development.
[11:41.670 --> 11:52.130]  This year's annual threat assessment from the Director of National Intelligence, known as DNI, found that malicious cyber activity grew more sophisticated, targeted, and serious during the past year.
[11:52.310 --> 11:55.210]  And that trend is expected to continue during the next year.
[11:55.350 --> 12:03.930]  The assessment also said the intelligence community expects disruptive cyber activities to be part of future political or military conflicts.
[12:04.790 --> 12:09.790]  The unclassified findings of the assessment were presented by DNI Dennis Blair.
[12:10.730 --> 12:11.890]  He doesn't have a title.
[12:12.170 --> 12:12.770]  He's just direct...
[12:12.770 --> 12:13.950]  Oh, he's the Director of National Intelligence.
[12:14.030 --> 12:14.210]  I see.
[12:14.370 --> 12:20.610]  Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, before the Senate Select Intelligence Committee on February 12th.
[12:20.610 --> 12:28.710]  Now, the report said threats to the information networks of the United States come from nation states, criminals, and terrorist groups.
[12:29.230 --> 12:33.690]  And they have each expressed a desire to use cyber means to target the United States.
[12:33.810 --> 12:35.350]  And they all watch 24, so they don't know how.
[12:35.950 --> 12:38.450]  Each of these actors has different...
[12:38.450 --> 12:41.210]  Actors meaning people participating, not the actors of the show.
[12:41.650 --> 12:45.030]  ...has different levels of skill and different intentions.
[12:45.030 --> 12:48.050]  Therefore, we must develop flexible capabilities to counter each.
[12:48.330 --> 12:57.210]  We must take proactive measures to detect and prevent intrusions from whatever source as they happen and before they can do significant damage.
[12:57.770 --> 13:11.190]  Now, the interesting thing about this is that they concluded that this kind of cyber activity is not the area where they think terrorists have the greatest skills for the greatest destruction.
[13:12.030 --> 13:21.750]  Blair says, I think that they have other terrible things that they can do to us that they are working on harder, they're better able to do, and they seem to be more motivated to do if it's possible, or so it's possible, rather.
[13:22.290 --> 13:27.150]  But I don't think the combination of terror and cyber is the nexus that we are most worried about.
[13:27.590 --> 13:34.530]  So it almost sounds rational that they're not going to go hysterical about potential cyber warfare or cyber terrorism.
[13:34.690 --> 13:39.710]  So he's saying that killing people is more dangerous than stealing their Word documents or whatever?
[13:39.710 --> 13:40.170]  There may be.
[13:40.490 --> 13:41.770]  He might be implied that.
[13:41.890 --> 13:42.410]  What do you think, Bernie?
[13:43.030 --> 13:45.470]  I think that the media, the U.S.
[13:45.590 --> 13:47.630]  media, really blew this out of proportion.
[13:48.190 --> 14:03.610]  After I heard the Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, give his talk before Congress, his assessment, his intelligence assessment, which he's got to do every year by law, and he was really downplaying the whole cyber terrorism threat, saying,
[14:03.650 --> 14:04.710]  listen, these are bad guys.
[14:04.830 --> 14:06.930]  They don't have much skills in the cyber area.
[14:06.930 --> 14:11.790]  There's a lot of bad stuff they can do that'll be much more effective in their goals than this cyber stuff.
[14:11.850 --> 14:13.970]  So we're really not worried that much about the cyber thing.
[14:14.090 --> 14:14.870]  It's not a big priority.
[14:15.090 --> 14:17.970]  The biggest risk, you said, is the global economy.
[14:17.970 --> 14:22.770]  It's really the biggest national intelligence threat to this country.
[14:23.590 --> 14:29.050]  But then all the media outlets seem to be mainly reporting that there's a big cyber terrorism threat.
[14:29.050 --> 14:31.650]  So this is a real disconnect from what he said before Congress.
[14:31.830 --> 14:44.130]  Well, if you listen to how the story was presented here, yeah, they're acknowledging that certain things will be going up and rising, but in the end concluding that, you know, this is not as big a threat as real terrorism.
[14:44.570 --> 14:48.990]  And you're right, they missed that conclusion, which is the most important part, I think.
[14:49.350 --> 14:49.590]  Yes.
[14:49.850 --> 14:54.570]  I think that maybe, quote unquote, cyber terrorism is a bigger threat in other and smaller countries.
[14:55.070 --> 14:57.670]  I mean, we have seen in the past, I think it was, was it Estonia?
[14:57.870 --> 14:58.970]  Here we go again with Estonia.
[14:59.130 --> 15:00.370]  It wasn't Russia that did it.
[15:00.470 --> 15:02.290]  It was the Estonian college student who was bored.
[15:02.290 --> 15:10.970]  Well, either, but it, it, it showed the, the fact that you could, uh, you know, basically disconnect a country from, from the internet and from communications.
[15:11.490 --> 15:18.190]  Um, so I think, but I think in our case, since we basically control most of the internet, we're not really at, uh...
[15:18.190 --> 15:18.770]  Who died?
[15:19.010 --> 15:19.850]  Did anybody die?
[15:20.210 --> 15:21.070]  I mean, get real.
[15:21.190 --> 15:21.830]  Was it terrorism?
[15:22.150 --> 15:26.290]  I mean, it was inconvenient, but it wasn't really, who was literally feeling terror?
[15:26.790 --> 15:32.270]  Well, if I can go back to 24, what they did there was, no, they, they got this, they got this device.
[15:32.550 --> 15:33.210]  No, I have a device.
[15:33.310 --> 15:34.950]  No, you can't go back to 24.
[15:35.170 --> 15:38.670]  This device can control airplanes in the sky, can control the electrical grid, all right?
[15:38.690 --> 15:43.650]  There's a chemical plant in Ohio that they were, they were this close to releasing gas from, all right?
[15:43.730 --> 15:45.330]  And it almost killed 10,000 people.
[15:45.610 --> 15:50.230]  And the plant manager, very brave guy, sacrificed his own life to save the people of that town.
[15:50.310 --> 15:52.250]  So I don't think this is something that we should be laughing at.
[15:52.290 --> 15:52.790]  Just no.
[15:54.650 --> 15:55.850]  24 is like a documentary.
[15:56.790 --> 16:01.070]  Anyway, yeah, um, maybe it's not the most important thing to worry about.
[16:01.070 --> 16:01.630]  What do you got there?
[16:01.930 --> 16:05.330]  Uh, oh, we're going to, we're going to contact those people soon, but we have more things to get through.
[16:05.410 --> 16:06.150]  Let's get through it quicker.
[16:06.730 --> 16:11.350]  Um, here's some letters and people are welcome to write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[16:11.550 --> 16:13.130]  We, we read every single letter at some point.
[16:13.570 --> 16:15.570]  Sometimes we read them on the air, like we're going to do right now.
[16:15.830 --> 16:22.790]  Hi, can you spend some time discussing dragonflies, the nanotech surveillance camera that is directed by remote control?
[16:23.090 --> 16:24.410]  I have actually seen them.
[16:24.630 --> 16:27.530]  It is said that they can be directed to swarm like bees.
[16:27.870 --> 16:28.730]  That is pretty scary.
[16:28.730 --> 16:30.710]  I guess it could be one way to break up a demonstration.
[16:31.290 --> 16:34.190]  If you decide to do so, uh, please let me know as I do not have an iPod.
[16:34.250 --> 16:36.850]  Well, we're not, we can't call you and let you know we're going to, uh, be talking about it.
[16:36.930 --> 16:39.890]  You have to listen to the radio show, but thanks Judith for, uh, for sending us that letter.
[16:40.250 --> 16:42.230]  Uh, Bernie, I believe you had something to say about dragonflies.
[16:42.330 --> 16:44.990]  Is this fiction or is this something really scary we should be worried about?
[16:45.390 --> 16:46.690]  I've seen dragonflies too.
[16:46.970 --> 16:48.290]  I mean, these kind.
[16:48.830 --> 16:55.070]  Yeah, well, I think what she's thinking of is little tiny microminiaturized radio control airplanes with cameras on them.
[16:55.250 --> 16:56.350]  Right, that's science fiction, right?
[16:56.750 --> 16:58.530]  Well, no, they're actually, I've seen them.
[16:58.650 --> 17:04.910]  I've gone to, uh, air shows where there's been model airplane people there with things that are, I mean, some of these planes were about the size of a, of a quarter.
[17:05.090 --> 17:07.070]  I was really amazed that they actually could fly.
[17:07.190 --> 17:10.210]  They didn't have cameras on them, but I imagine they could make them the size of a dragonfly.
[17:10.310 --> 17:10.930]  They did have cameras.
[17:10.930 --> 17:25.810]  Yes, they could be used as a surveillance platform, and yes, it's an issue, but, um, until an activist or somebody actually nabs one of these things with a, with a butterfly net or something and lays it open bare for people to actually see that these are being used against,
[17:25.810 --> 17:31.250]  uh, activists and for other kinds of surveillance on Americans, uh, I wouldn't worry a whole lot about it.
[17:31.330 --> 17:32.670]  Well, I don't know.
[17:32.670 --> 17:35.990]  I'm, I'm, I'm not going to, uh, say we shouldn't be a little paranoid about this.
[17:36.070 --> 17:37.490]  I mean, let's like, let's think about this.
[17:37.570 --> 17:38.650]  You've already said that it's possible.
[17:38.750 --> 17:46.610]  You can make these, uh, insect size airplanes, and we all know cameras can be made smaller and smaller, so let's just figure that they're going to put a camera on it eventually.
[17:47.390 --> 17:51.770]  Uh, what would you do if you were in power and you had that ability and these things became cheap enough?
[17:52.390 --> 17:56.710]  How would you, how would you use them, uh, to, to obtain your, your, your, your goals?
[17:57.730 --> 18:05.090]  Oh, you could just fly over a group of people and actually fly up behind, uh, people that are having a conversation and listen to what they're saying.
[18:05.330 --> 18:12.310]  I mean, there's a lot of things that can be done, but I would recommend a giant can of Raid and just spray it on these buggers and, and, and blind them.
[18:12.410 --> 18:17.250]  You know, that doesn't work because they're not really alive, so, uh, they, they can make an infinite number of these things.
[18:17.530 --> 18:19.770]  I'd like to be a fly on the wall during that intelligence meeting.
[18:19.910 --> 18:20.590]  And now I can.
[18:21.790 --> 18:24.470]  Uh, it's, it's, it's really, uh, kind of, kind of scary, I think.
[18:24.550 --> 18:29.330]  Well, what about the second more point that the, the person made of a swarming, attacking dragonflies?
[18:29.530 --> 18:32.250]  Yeah, a swarm, a way of chasing people.
[18:32.250 --> 18:34.810]  Well, of course, they'd have to be able to sting you for you to really run.
[18:34.810 --> 18:35.350]  Taser, maybe?
[18:36.050 --> 18:38.270]  Maybe, maybe there could be some kind of weaponry involved.
[18:38.490 --> 18:40.790]  I mean, a swarm of these is going to be really expensive.
[18:41.010 --> 18:43.150]  Right, now it is, but you know, things get cheaper and cheaper.
[18:43.270 --> 18:44.230]  But what do you do with a swarm?
[18:44.590 --> 18:46.690]  What do you do with like a hundred cameras all looking at the same thing?
[18:46.710 --> 18:47.290]  Well, that's what I'm saying.
[18:47.350 --> 18:48.090]  They don't have to be cameras.
[18:48.170 --> 18:52.050]  They can be, they can, they can sting, they can spray little gas on, uh, on people.
[18:52.310 --> 18:53.990]  You know, tear gas, tear gas, dragonflies.
[18:54.210 --> 18:58.310]  You can take a page out of Bill Gates' playbook and just get real mosquitoes and throw them at people.
[18:58.410 --> 18:58.650]  I mean.
[18:59.210 --> 19:00.030]  But it's not the same thing.
[19:00.030 --> 19:00.950]  These are way cheaper.
[19:00.950 --> 19:02.090]  These are dragonflies.
[19:02.350 --> 19:02.890]  Yeah, dragonflies.
[19:03.090 --> 19:04.170]  There's something particularly scary about that.
[19:04.270 --> 19:07.130]  Dragons throughout the course of history have, uh, scared people.
[19:07.330 --> 19:09.030]  So, um, I won't get into that now.
[19:09.390 --> 19:10.430]  Uh, okay, here's another letter.
[19:10.590 --> 19:10.890]  Uh, greetings.
[19:11.010 --> 19:13.930]  I had some questions and, uh, comments regarding the last off the hook.
[19:13.990 --> 19:25.130]  First, annoyingly, I seem to have missed the limited edition book premium again, since I always get the podcast to listen to the next day as I am in the UK and can't stay up past midnight every Wednesday when I have work the next morning.
[19:25.130 --> 19:26.910]  You know, there are sick days.
[19:27.090 --> 19:27.810]  There are personal days.
[19:27.970 --> 19:28.670]  You can take them off.
[19:28.810 --> 19:30.190]  I mean, people do that all the time.
[19:30.950 --> 19:42.070]  If you've considered offering things to people willing to help the station but are less able to listen live, you can call 212-209-2950 anytime and pledge for one of the many premiums that we have here at the radio station.
[19:42.070 --> 19:43.250]  Not just off the hook premiums.
[19:43.330 --> 19:51.910]  We offer, uh, because our premiums are actual donations from either us or people that we know, uh, offering them all the time would basically make us all bankrupt.
[19:51.910 --> 19:54.270]  So we offer them during the hour that we're on the air.
[19:54.570 --> 20:00.350]  Uh, but there's all kinds of other things that are on the, um, on the radio, um, station that you can pledge for it.
[20:00.370 --> 20:01.750]  212-209-2950.
[20:01.990 --> 20:02.210]  Yes, right.
[20:02.210 --> 20:03.030]  Country Code 1.
[20:03.170 --> 20:03.810]  Country Code 1.
[20:03.890 --> 20:05.710]  Yes, especially if you're calling from over, overseas.
[20:06.030 --> 20:10.490]  Now, regarding the comments on people being convicted on images only, we were talking about child porn last week.
[20:10.590 --> 20:11.050]  Oh, boy, that was fun.
[20:11.350 --> 20:17.630]  Uh, there are some arguments that people who download and purchase illegal pornography support those who abuse people who create it.
[20:18.190 --> 20:24.430]  Uh, however, there are, um, um, there are some cases which have resulted in convictions where no innocents were harmed.
[20:24.430 --> 20:37.350]  There was recently a case in Australia where a judge managed to get a conviction on someone possessing a pornographic parody Simpsons cartoon that most internet users have seen, laughed at, and deleted with the other email jokes they were forwarded that day.
[20:37.350 --> 20:38.010]  I haven't seen that one.
[20:38.330 --> 20:50.950]  Um, there has also been a law recently enacted in the UK where any picture, so much as depicting child pornography, bestiality, and anything depicting injury to breasts or genitals can cause the person possessing it to be convicted.
[20:50.950 --> 21:00.330]  The main issue with this is that the law is so badly written, it can be used to convict someone possessing film clips of horror movies, Japanese comics, even pictures of body piercings.
[21:00.350 --> 21:05.890]  As you can imagine, the BDSM community are suitably worried by this as it directly affects them.
[21:06.030 --> 21:10.770]  And again, no innocents are harmed as safety and consent are the tenets of that community.
[21:10.970 --> 21:18.970]  Uh, there is a group called CAN, C-A-A-N, in the UK protesting this, and they may be worth you looking into for more information on this case.
[21:18.970 --> 21:32.730]  From what I have seen, this law is passed based on the actions of just one maniac, much like recent firearms law in the UK, and will do as little to prevent the claimed violent acts that is associated with viewing this material as the banning of automatic weapons and handguns has done to reduce crime...
[21:32.730 --> 21:36.250]  Okay, I guess we're going off on a bit of a tangent here, but, uh, yes.
[21:37.530 --> 21:40.070]  Um, all right, um, and we have one more letter.
[21:40.450 --> 21:41.790]  Um, any comments on that letter?
[21:41.950 --> 21:42.170]  No?
[21:42.650 --> 21:43.250]  Stun silence?
[21:43.430 --> 21:44.810]  Wait, automatic weapons kill people?
[21:44.970 --> 21:47.850]  Uh, yeah, let's not get into guns, because we'll just be on for the next...
[21:47.850 --> 21:48.650]  People kill people.
[21:48.810 --> 21:50.110]  Yeah, we'll be on for hours and hours.
[21:50.490 --> 21:53.570]  Uh, I have to, uh, somewhat disagree with Emmanuel on this issue.
[21:53.850 --> 21:58.590]  I'm not sure as to how the laws are within the state of New York, but here in Massachusetts, the climate is a bit different.
[21:58.790 --> 22:04.250]  I've personally worked with someone who had a job as a teacher, and they found this same content on his computer.
[22:04.450 --> 22:07.190]  He was discovered, however, trying to solicit sex from an undercover agent.
[22:07.790 --> 22:08.150]  After...
[22:08.150 --> 22:10.230]  Is that illegal to solicit sex from an undercover agent?
[22:10.290 --> 22:11.030]  What if that's your thing?
[22:11.030 --> 22:18.070]  What if you like to have these risque conversations with cops who are pretending to be somebody they're not?
[22:18.150 --> 22:19.910]  Was it an undercover agent posing as a minor?
[22:20.090 --> 22:20.530]  I think so.
[22:20.530 --> 22:20.650]  Yeah.
[22:20.730 --> 22:21.430]  But they're always doing that.
[22:21.430 --> 22:22.170]  They do that on TV.
[22:22.530 --> 22:23.250]  Pose as minors.
[22:23.890 --> 22:24.590]  That's called acting.
[22:24.790 --> 22:26.030]  Have you never seen the...
[22:26.030 --> 22:26.270]  What is it?
[22:26.550 --> 22:27.070]  Nightline or whatever?
[22:27.230 --> 22:27.750]  Nightline, yeah.
[22:28.110 --> 22:28.270]  Yeah.
[22:28.610 --> 22:29.150]  Is it on 24?
[22:29.270 --> 22:30.210]  They didn't do that on 24, I don't think.
[22:30.210 --> 22:30.490]  No, no, no.
[22:30.510 --> 22:30.850]  Not yet.
[22:31.050 --> 22:31.210]  Oh.
[22:31.490 --> 22:32.050]  Well, they'll get to it.
[22:32.250 --> 22:35.490]  After the Catholic priest's sex scandal, the laws changed quite a bit.
[22:35.550 --> 22:38.570]  I think just possession of one image is two years, but I might be wrong.
[22:38.570 --> 22:42.870]  The trouble is, if you try Googling mass laws on this, you come up with law firms looking for clients.
[22:43.370 --> 22:50.970]  As was stated on your show, there is a difference between possession and distribution, but with the internet, sometimes it can be hard to tell how one can happen without the other.
[22:51.190 --> 22:58.550]  At the very least, if someone was accidentally sent child pornography, then I feel that warrants the government getting a warrant and trying to determine who sent the content.
[22:58.990 --> 23:05.190]  There are strong correlations between those that view this type of content, those that abuse animals, like what you mentioned with the hamster.
[23:06.430 --> 23:07.430]  Let's not get into that again.
[23:07.430 --> 23:11.750]  Leading up to those that would do other offenses, like murders, rapes, and abuse.
[23:11.870 --> 23:15.290]  In Massachusetts, we have an odd set of laws nicknamed Pink Papers.
[23:16.870 --> 23:21.750]  These, if you're considered a threat to yourself or others, you can be locked up without a trial for 10 days.
[23:23.310 --> 23:25.230]  There's all kinds of talk about that as well.
[23:25.710 --> 23:31.310]  There have been cases, actually, where someone was on a computer that became infected, and it wasn't their fault.
[23:31.910 --> 23:35.790]  I agree this probably has to be treated like a drug addiction, though, and rehab has to occur.
[23:35.950 --> 23:41.790]  I would also add that we had incidents in the past few years where a home improvement chain sent registered sex offenders to do home improvement installations.
[23:42.250 --> 23:44.910]  There have been a number of cases of child rape by teachers.
[23:44.910 --> 23:50.170]  Lastly, there's been some cases in Massachusetts and New Hampshire with some gross thing called sexting.
[23:50.170 --> 23:50.950]  I've heard about this.
[23:51.510 --> 23:51.830]  Sexting.
[23:51.930 --> 23:57.570]  Apparently, middle school students photograph themselves naked and send those pictures to other people, other students.
[23:58.130 --> 24:03.610]  And now they charge people who have those with possession of child pornography, including the people that took the pictures.
[24:04.430 --> 24:04.870]  Wow.
[24:05.290 --> 24:05.730]  Sexting.
[24:06.330 --> 24:08.210]  Some of this mindset is creating a different world.
[24:08.330 --> 24:15.610]  It's getting to the point now where adults that actually do work with children, teachers, big brothers, big sisters, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, are seen as something else.
[24:16.130 --> 24:18.570]  I know this is a long email, but I'd like to say I enjoy your show.
[24:18.690 --> 24:19.290]  Keep up the good work.
[24:19.290 --> 24:20.110]  Matt from Massachusetts.
[24:20.350 --> 24:22.950]  And Matt, I don't really see where we disagree, but interesting points.
[24:23.070 --> 24:23.490]  Yes, that right.
[24:23.550 --> 24:24.130]  You have something on this?
[24:24.510 --> 24:26.130]  I recently had an interesting idea.
[24:26.390 --> 24:34.270]  I wondered what would happen if somebody designed a worm that does nothing except hide child porn on a person's computer and the spreads.
[24:35.150 --> 24:37.910]  What would be the legal ramifications for something like that?
[24:38.150 --> 24:38.950]  That must have happened.
[24:39.030 --> 24:42.830]  Somebody must have thought of that in one of those places that comes up with worms.
[24:43.070 --> 24:43.330]  Yes, Rob.
[24:43.550 --> 24:48.810]  There's a picture in one of my old family albums of my mom bathing her children in the sink when they were toddlers or babies.
[24:48.810 --> 24:49.550]  Better destroy that.
[24:49.950 --> 24:51.630]  I'm going to turn her in as soon as I get home.
[24:52.290 --> 24:54.210]  So mom, if you're listening, you know, start packing.
[24:54.430 --> 24:56.850]  Hey, I think there's naked pictures of me in our photo album, too.
[24:57.470 --> 24:57.790]  All right.
[24:57.970 --> 25:00.410]  Well, let's not start a panic out there.
[25:00.830 --> 25:05.090]  And here's a new story before we move on to our special feature of the night.
[25:05.090 --> 25:13.630]  An Ontario Superior Court ruling could allow police to routinely use internet protocol addresses to find out the names of people online without any need for a search warrant.
[25:14.010 --> 25:21.890]  Justice Lynn Leach found that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in subscriber information kept by internet service providers.
[25:22.070 --> 25:24.490]  That's a decision issued last week.
[25:24.490 --> 25:27.450]  The decision is binding on lower courts in Ontario.
[25:27.450 --> 25:35.330]  It's the first time a superior court level judge in Canada has ruled on whether there are privacy rights in this information that are protected by the charter.
[25:35.550 --> 25:40.990]  The ruling is a significant victory for police investigating such crimes as possession of child pornography.
[25:41.210 --> 25:46.370]  While privacy advocates warn there are broad implications even for law-abiding internet users.
[25:46.370 --> 25:53.790]  There is no confidentiality left on the internet if this ruling stands, says James Stripopoulos, a law professor.
[25:54.310 --> 25:55.950]  So, yeah, it's a foot in the door.
[25:56.210 --> 26:01.210]  They start with something that people agree with and then they're monitoring everything you say and do.
[26:01.310 --> 26:04.590]  They don't need a warrant to find out who owned an IP address?
[26:05.530 --> 26:07.830]  Who actually posted something?
[26:08.910 --> 26:10.130]  Find out the names of...
[26:10.130 --> 26:14.110]  For instance, you have an IP address that's affiliated with, say, your cable modem.
[26:14.570 --> 26:19.810]  They can simply grab that information from the ISP, say, that IP belongs to this person, here's his address.
[26:20.050 --> 26:20.370]  Got it.
[26:20.650 --> 26:24.830]  And, yeah, it's handy to have that information, but something that should be that simple.
[26:25.010 --> 26:25.270]  Manual?
[26:25.610 --> 26:26.390]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[26:26.930 --> 26:29.830]  I just want to briefly mention a big story.
[26:29.990 --> 26:31.130]  It happened last night at midnight.
[26:31.670 --> 26:36.010]  400 TV stations across the United States turned off their analog transmitters.
[26:36.190 --> 26:36.550]  Finally.
[26:36.670 --> 26:37.130]  Oh, boy.
[26:37.270 --> 26:41.670]  And, well, there's still thousands more to go and they won't have to turn off.
[26:41.750 --> 26:44.030]  They won't have to turn them off until June, the rest of these people.
[26:44.110 --> 26:50.170]  But what's interesting is a lot of stations, their engineering staff got together with the other staff and did special sign-offs.
[26:50.250 --> 26:55.270]  You know, the old midnight sign-offs you used to see on TV stations back in the day.
[26:55.350 --> 27:19.930]  Well, a lot of stations did some very interesting final sign-offs with the national anthem and then showing some guy actually throwing the switch in the transmitter before the screen went to just a blank raster, some people playing just sort of emotional songs and with the tributes to the era of analog TV broadcasting.
[27:19.930 --> 27:21.010]  It's really interesting.
[27:21.310 --> 27:27.730]  Some people recorded these, which was great, and they put them up on YouTube, but then YouTube took the audio off because it was copyrighted.
[27:27.730 --> 27:28.210]  Oh, God.
[27:28.210 --> 27:29.190]  Come on.
[27:29.430 --> 27:30.150]  It's crazy.
[27:30.750 --> 27:35.190]  I'm supposed to just make a website that collects these and not worry about nonsense like that.
[27:35.750 --> 27:36.090]  Okay.
[27:36.590 --> 27:48.790]  Now, time to get down to business because we are, as we mentioned, in the middle of a fundraiser, so we have some things to take care of and some special features that we'd like to focus on.
[27:49.650 --> 27:57.150]  Joining us tonight on the telephone is our good friend, publisher over at No Storage Press, Bill Pollack.
[27:57.210 --> 27:57.730]  Bill, are you there?
[27:57.950 --> 27:58.450]  I'm here.
[27:58.670 --> 28:00.810]  And you're down in Florida now, I believe.
[28:01.050 --> 28:04.810]  I'm, yeah, I'm in a resort, sort of.
[28:04.930 --> 28:05.210]  Wow.
[28:05.310 --> 28:09.870]  You're actually on vacation and you're joining us on the air to help out with this fundraiser here.
[28:09.870 --> 28:12.350]  Yeah, it's not a resort, it's my mother's apartment.
[28:12.510 --> 28:15.110]  Oh, well, you know, I'm sure it's very nice.
[28:15.750 --> 28:17.170]  It looks like a hotel.
[28:17.470 --> 28:17.670]  Uh-huh.
[28:17.750 --> 28:19.290]  Tell us something about No Storage.
[28:19.490 --> 28:23.490]  You've been active in this for quite a while and put out some very interesting titles.
[28:24.530 --> 28:37.030]  So, no, I tried to actually get the streaming audio to hear what you guys have been talking about, but I should talk just briefly about what the thought was for this show.
[28:37.030 --> 28:39.510]  So, now, are Jim and Jonathan on, or?
[28:41.290 --> 28:43.250]  Yeah, but we haven't introduced them yet.
[28:43.510 --> 28:44.370]  Okay, okay, that's okay.
[28:44.510 --> 28:48.950]  If you could just tell us something about No Storage and what it stands for, what kinds of things you've done.
[28:49.070 --> 28:49.330]  Sorry.
[28:49.330 --> 29:00.290]  So, our focus is on what I talk about as geek entertainment, and it's ideas like we publish books for hackers.
[29:00.490 --> 29:07.170]  I think when we put out Hacking the Art of Exploitation, for example, I think it, well, we basically really released it at Hope.
[29:07.850 --> 29:10.750]  I don't remember the year 2000-something.
[29:11.910 --> 29:19.770]  And that made a big difference because it was, I think about the first hacking book to really raise a level of dialogue when it came to hacking.
[29:19.910 --> 29:26.430]  So, hacking wasn't, at least as far as this book was concerned, just about, you know, pointing people at URLs and use this exploit and so on.
[29:26.430 --> 29:42.250]  And then my goal, since I've been publishing hacking books, and I'd say starting with the time when we started publishing Linux books, is to really raise the bar for information about hacking and basically make ScriptKitty smarter and not more dangerous.
[29:42.550 --> 29:57.690]  And I think of the groups that I publish, and we publish books on Lego, we've even published, you know, real popular titles, just sort of fluffy titles, like there's a title in the Mac stores now called My New Mac.
[29:57.850 --> 30:06.350]  But of all the groups that we appeal to and that I've met, I find the hacking group certainly one of the most interesting, if not the most interesting.
[30:06.530 --> 30:09.350]  I go to more hacking conferences than probably anything all year.
[30:09.750 --> 30:10.690]  Well, it's interesting.
[30:10.690 --> 30:23.870]  You mentioned Legos, and that's something that we're going to be focusing on because we have on the phone with us, along with you, two authors of a book entitled First Lego League.
[30:24.270 --> 30:31.410]  We have James Floyd Kelly and Jonathan Dodlin joining us on the telephone.
[30:31.630 --> 30:32.150]  Guys there?
[30:32.470 --> 30:32.670]  Yep.
[30:33.310 --> 30:33.570]  Great.
[30:34.550 --> 30:36.650]  Tell us something about this book, First Lego League.
[30:36.710 --> 30:37.270]  What's it all about?
[30:37.430 --> 30:40.950]  The Unofficial Guide to Legos?
[30:41.870 --> 30:42.790]  Jonathan, are you there?
[30:44.290 --> 30:45.370]  I didn't hear Jonathan.
[30:46.970 --> 30:47.870]  Did we lose Jonathan?
[30:48.030 --> 30:51.710]  No, we have him on hold, but we can only have a certain amount of calls at a time.
[30:51.890 --> 30:52.230]  Oh, okay.
[30:52.290 --> 30:53.670]  I can take that.
[30:54.470 --> 31:06.990]  The book is basically an A to Z guide for coaches and students who want to participate in the first Lego League robotics competition.
[31:07.650 --> 31:22.670]  They're held on a state level, actually on a local level, and there are regional competitions that move on to state competitions that move on to the national or really what they call the world festival, which is held each year.
[31:23.610 --> 31:25.390]  Jonathan joins us now, I believe, right?
[31:25.610 --> 31:26.270]  Jonathan, welcome.
[31:26.910 --> 31:32.070]  I wanted to try to put this in context and talk briefly about why this belongs in a show like Golf the Hook.
[31:32.750 --> 31:33.310]  Go ahead.
[31:33.590 --> 31:33.830]  Go ahead.
[31:34.010 --> 31:41.590]  So, I went to the, thanks to Jim, I attended the, I guess at the world championships of first Lego League.
[31:41.670 --> 31:48.770]  Now, first Lego League is a combination, first Lego, the first organization was started by Dean Kamen.
[31:48.770 --> 31:51.970]  And his most famous invention that I know of is the Segway.
[31:52.610 --> 31:58.130]  But there were a lot of people, and Jim and Jonathan will correct me if I'm wrong, a lot of people behind first.
[31:58.370 --> 32:01.530]  And these are serious scientists and engineers.
[32:01.530 --> 32:09.070]  When I was there, like, all these XPRIZE people were trooping through, and I felt really small, because the net worth in the room was probably about, you know, $200 billion.
[32:10.030 --> 32:10.450]  Wow.
[32:10.550 --> 32:13.210]  So, I know there's a connection like that between Legos and the Segway.
[32:14.470 --> 32:28.110]  Well, with Dean Kamen, I mean, the whole focus of first, the reason I think this is so fascinating and why it's so consistent with the kind of thing that we're trying to do is that it's designed to appeal to smart kids.
[32:28.490 --> 32:35.550]  And I guarantee there's at least one person in your listening audience who grew up, you know, maybe didn't really have friends that understood them.
[32:36.550 --> 32:44.770]  They were brighter than a lot of the kids at school, and there was kind of no outlet, and maybe they weren't playing sports, but their skills weren't particularly valued.
[32:45.050 --> 32:54.850]  And first, Lego League, if you ever have the chance to attend at least the championship, it's like a sporting event with smart kids playing with robots and doing, you know, robotic challenges.
[32:54.850 --> 32:58.150]  And it's in a stadium, and you see people...
[32:58.150 --> 33:01.930]  I was never a big sports guy, well, team sports.
[33:02.450 --> 33:09.870]  And people are cheering in the stands, you know, and they all have their colors and stuff, and they're cheering for these robots that they've built, and there are different levels.
[33:09.870 --> 33:11.770]  We don't want to... there's a lot to talk about.
[33:11.850 --> 33:14.850]  We don't need to talk about it at all, but they're cheering for the teams.
[33:15.090 --> 33:29.990]  And their teams are solving these challenges using robots that they've designed, whether they're designed with Lego Mindstorms kit, which is what this book focuses on, or there are larger robots built out of steel and welded or whatever.
[33:30.950 --> 33:32.530]  That's the first robotics competition.
[33:32.530 --> 33:43.310]  But it's a fascinating thing, and it's a great outlet for, you know, smart kids who want to be doing things that they find are interesting and, you know, using their head.
[33:43.510 --> 33:58.950]  Now, in this book, The Unofficial Guide to the First Lego League, some of the points that you'll learn by having this book are how to organize, recruit, and manage a team, how to find equipment, mentors, and funding.
[33:59.470 --> 34:01.370]  And this is the part that I really like.
[34:01.530 --> 34:04.390]  Design, build, and program winning robots.
[34:04.650 --> 34:11.010]  And I think we've all wanted to design a winning robot at some point in our lives, and this is actually a guide to how to do that.
[34:11.470 --> 34:25.050]  Also, tackle each of the four FLL components, from robot game to teamwork, FLL, of course, being the first Lego League, and use strategies and technologies from FLL masters to increase your scores.
[34:25.050 --> 34:26.990]  Now, I know, not Kevin, you've been involved with Legos.
[34:27.150 --> 34:29.530]  What is the appeal for hackers and Legos?
[34:29.650 --> 34:31.510]  It's this connection that I've seen over the years.
[34:31.610 --> 34:33.650]  It's almost manic in some ways.
[34:33.790 --> 34:35.090]  Well, who didn't grow up with Legos?
[34:35.190 --> 34:36.250]  That's the real question.
[34:36.470 --> 34:38.450]  I mean, they're the staple of my childhood.
[34:38.830 --> 34:39.730]  Everybody had Legos.
[34:39.850 --> 34:44.390]  It was just so cool to take little plastic blocks and put them together, and who knows what you're going to have after an hour.
[34:44.470 --> 34:45.170]  I didn't have Legos.
[34:45.170 --> 34:45.950]  I had Tonka toys.
[34:46.670 --> 34:47.230]  I'm sorry.
[34:47.310 --> 34:48.150]  I'm fortunate for you.
[34:48.970 --> 34:50.470]  I lived at the prior...
[34:50.470 --> 34:51.630]  No, they don't make those anymore.
[34:52.170 --> 34:54.370]  After people started swallowing them, I think they got rid of them.
[34:54.370 --> 34:55.330]  Or the Erector set.
[34:55.550 --> 34:56.530]  Oh, those were good, too.
[34:56.650 --> 34:56.830]  Yeah.
[34:57.190 --> 34:58.230]  They have the...
[34:58.230 --> 34:59.810]  I cut myself good on one of those.
[35:00.090 --> 35:00.810]  The plastic, yeah.
[35:01.190 --> 35:03.310]  But anyway, I know there are people out there.
[35:03.390 --> 35:17.030]  We'll give you guys a chance to talk about the book in greater detail, but I just want to let the folks know out there, they were offering us a special deal tonight, thanks to the folks over at No Starch, or Bill over at No Starch, and the guys who put this book together,
[35:17.130 --> 35:19.390]  The First Lego League, The Unofficial Guide to the First Lego League.
[35:19.390 --> 35:28.750]  We also have another Lego book, two Lego books, if people are interested in calling up and pledging, The Unofficial Lego Builder's Guide.
[35:30.330 --> 35:32.830]  And Bill, can you tell us something about that particular book?
[35:32.950 --> 35:34.370]  Yeah, and let me tell you about what...
[35:34.370 --> 35:36.390]  why I think this is interesting.
[35:36.730 --> 35:40.590]  So The Unofficial Lego Builder's Guide has actually been one of our best-selling titles.
[35:41.970 --> 35:43.570]  It's about the...
[35:44.490 --> 35:49.950]  As far as adults are concerned, it's probably the best-selling adult Lego book in the world.
[35:50.970 --> 35:55.310]  It's a guide that teaches you basic Lego building techniques.
[35:55.510 --> 36:03.090]  So if you build a house, you want the wall to stand up, it tells you how to construct the columns, how to keep the roof from falling in and stuff like that.
[36:03.090 --> 36:07.070]  And that was interesting to me because I'm not particularly creative when it comes to Lego.
[36:07.330 --> 36:09.610]  And I remember, you know, I would just build a house.
[36:09.750 --> 36:11.830]  I built four walls and a roof, and then it didn't last.
[36:12.170 --> 36:14.350]  This teaches you how to be a serious builder.
[36:14.490 --> 36:20.930]  In fact, the book was used by this guy that won a competition to become a Lego master builder.
[36:20.930 --> 36:25.550]  These are the people that designed, for example, the projects at Legoland and so forth.
[36:25.550 --> 36:28.230]  He learned everything out of this book and won the competition.
[36:28.550 --> 36:30.410]  But don't think about this necessarily.
[36:30.590 --> 36:32.190]  I'm talking to your listeners now.
[36:32.190 --> 36:39.090]  So as a book for yourself, think about it as something to give to your nephew, your son, the smart kid down the block.
[36:39.270 --> 36:41.850]  This is a way to inspire imagination.
[36:42.350 --> 36:45.550]  And the first Lego League book, to me, is designed as a way in.
[36:45.710 --> 36:50.450]  Like if you think this sounds kind of interesting, it's actually kind of confusing to figure out first Lego League.
[36:50.590 --> 36:51.450]  This is a manual.
[36:51.590 --> 36:52.330]  This is a way in.
[36:52.430 --> 36:55.430]  This is a way that you can create a first Lego League team in your neighborhood.
[36:55.590 --> 36:56.950]  You can get your school involved
[37:02.810 --> 37:05.510]  because everyone knows kids.
[37:05.690 --> 37:09.130]  Either they were one themselves or they know someone who could use this kind of outlet.
[37:09.610 --> 37:14.590]  Well, it just goes to show how there's always another door to open in the hacker world.
[37:14.770 --> 37:17.250]  And Legos is another door.
[37:17.470 --> 37:23.850]  It's something that opens up into a whole world of creativity and imagination and even mischief.
[37:24.310 --> 37:32.650]  And what we're offering here tonight is a way into that magical world that I think a lot of hackers, a lot of people in computer technology also are fascinated with.
[37:32.970 --> 37:44.270]  You'll get both of these books, the Unofficial Guide to the First Lego League and the Unofficial Lego Builders Guide, that in addition to an off-the-hook t-shirt for a pledge of $75, which is a pretty good deal.
[37:44.390 --> 37:48.610]  We're only offering it for the next, well, 25 minutes or so, as long as we're on the air.
[37:48.750 --> 37:52.310]  The phone number is 212-209-2950.
[37:53.850 --> 37:56.850]  And call and grab them now while you can.
[37:56.850 --> 38:02.970]  And the most important thing, though, is you're helping the radio station out by keeping us on the air.
[38:03.130 --> 38:04.510]  And we can talk about things.
[38:04.630 --> 38:08.170]  Well, you don't really hear Legos talked about on many radio stations.
[38:08.210 --> 38:17.850]  It's not exactly the most controversial of subjects, but it is fascinating and it opens up doors and it's something that can allow you to grow and develop as a human being as well.
[38:17.990 --> 38:21.190]  We've got three calls on the line so far, which is a good response, I think.
[38:21.330 --> 38:26.110]  I think it's testament to how people feel about something creative like this.
[38:26.110 --> 38:28.630]  We offered a Lego book once in the past as well.
[38:28.930 --> 38:31.850]  And the response, it simply was flabbergasting.
[38:32.010 --> 38:33.470]  People really are into this kind of thing.
[38:33.770 --> 38:37.250]  And I think it's a very positive step.
[38:37.350 --> 38:39.910]  Again, at $75, you'll get two Lego books.
[38:40.010 --> 38:45.250]  The Unofficial Lego Builder's Guide and the Unofficial Guide to the First Lego League.
[38:45.250 --> 38:48.210]  And you'll also get the official Off the Hook t-shirt.
[38:48.410 --> 38:51.650]  212-209-2950.
[38:51.650 --> 38:53.350]  So that's a pretty good deal.
[38:53.470 --> 38:55.950]  These books are going to be worth pretty close to $75.
[38:56.930 --> 39:02.750]  And you get the radio station, which you can get nowhere else, but here, of course, the radio station.
[39:04.230 --> 39:05.770]  212-209-2950.
[39:06.970 --> 39:07.870]  You get these books.
[39:07.950 --> 39:08.830]  You get the radio station.
[39:08.950 --> 39:09.890]  You get the radio program.
[39:10.210 --> 39:11.490]  I don't know why you wouldn't call.
[39:12.210 --> 39:13.870]  Well, I mean, maybe they didn't hear the phone number.
[39:13.970 --> 39:15.370]  212-209-2950.
[39:15.790 --> 39:18.890]  Oh, we have five calls on the line, and so I'm impressed so far.
[39:18.990 --> 39:22.310]  And I think we only have four or five volunteers down there.
[39:22.330 --> 39:23.790]  We do need more volunteers, by the way.
[39:23.930 --> 39:30.350]  If you're listening to the radio station and you want to help out, come on by and help answer phones any time of the day or night.
[39:30.610 --> 39:32.010]  We can certainly use the help.
[39:32.130 --> 39:36.170]  If the phone keeps ringing, it means we have more calls than we have volunteers.
[39:36.170 --> 39:36.830]  Keep trying.
[39:36.950 --> 39:37.490]  Just keep trying.
[39:37.490 --> 39:39.250]  You will definitely get through at some point.
[39:39.350 --> 39:40.810]  212-209-2950.
[39:41.010 --> 39:47.650]  Now, I want to give the guys who actually wrote the book a chance to talk about what inspired them and maybe some of their experiences.
[39:47.750 --> 39:50.090]  Well, Jonathan should tell his story for a couple...
[39:50.090 --> 39:54.910]  I don't think you know anything about Jonathan, but Jonathan should tell you a little, like, at least for a minute about himself.
[39:55.310 --> 39:55.750]  Okay.
[39:55.990 --> 39:56.270]  Go ahead.
[39:56.550 --> 40:02.570]  Yeah, I'm a 17-year-old home-educated student in northern New Jersey.
[40:02.950 --> 40:06.210]  And when I was nine years old...
[40:06.210 --> 40:06.610]  Which exit?
[40:07.130 --> 40:07.790]  Which exit?
[40:07.870 --> 40:08.410]  Exit 19.
[40:09.690 --> 40:11.870]  Is that how people define by their exit number now?
[40:11.970 --> 40:12.410]  In New Jersey.
[40:13.270 --> 40:13.850]  Wow, okay.
[40:14.350 --> 40:15.330]  I love New Jersey.
[40:15.330 --> 40:19.410]  Yeah, so I got interested in robotics when I was nine years old.
[40:19.550 --> 40:30.990]  I saved up my money and then I bought this Lego Mindstorms robotics invention system for $200, which was a robot kit sold by Lego.
[40:31.250 --> 40:36.810]  It had microcomputers, some motors, sensors, all the stuff you needed to build these robots.
[40:37.390 --> 40:40.170]  And so I liked building the robots with that.
[40:40.170 --> 40:49.330]  And then when I was 13, I helped start a first Lego League team to compete in the challenge.
[40:49.850 --> 41:04.690]  And in our second year of competing, I was the leading member and we won the Robot Performance and the Champions Award, which is like the overall award at the NJ State Championship.
[41:05.490 --> 41:09.230]  And then we went on to the World Festival down in Atlanta, Georgia.
[41:09.230 --> 41:11.350]  And there we won...
[41:11.350 --> 41:16.590]  Our robot got perfect scores in all of its rounds, three out of three.
[41:16.770 --> 41:19.170]  And we won the first place robot performance.
[41:20.110 --> 41:24.170]  And we also won first place Innovative Robot.
[41:24.530 --> 41:27.070]  Now, how did you get involved in writing this book?
[41:28.590 --> 41:30.170]  When I was...
[41:30.170 --> 41:30.990]  After...
[41:30.990 --> 41:31.490]  Let's see.
[41:31.950 --> 41:37.770]  After a little while competing in first Lego League, I was an active member...
[41:37.770 --> 41:40.750]  Active viewer of this...
[41:40.750 --> 41:49.710]  Jim Kelly started a blog about the Lego Mindstorms NXT, which is Lego Mindstorms Robot System, called The Next Step Blog.
[41:49.950 --> 41:59.230]  And after a while of reading on it and giving comments and sending some robot ideas, he invited me to become a contributor.
[41:59.910 --> 42:02.090]  And so, when I was a...
[42:02.090 --> 42:03.290]  As a contributor...
[42:03.290 --> 42:03.870]  How old were you then?
[42:05.190 --> 42:06.250]  Fourteen, I think.
[42:06.490 --> 42:06.710]  Okay.
[42:07.410 --> 42:17.730]  And so, as a contributor, I participated in some contributor book projects that the contributors to The Next Step started and did.
[42:18.290 --> 42:21.890]  The first one was the Lego Mindstorms NXT Idea Book.
[42:22.130 --> 42:22.770]  Which we published.
[42:23.250 --> 42:23.850]  Yeah, yeah.
[42:23.930 --> 42:24.630]  No stars published.
[42:24.930 --> 42:45.630]  And then after that, Jim Kelly invited me to co-author a book about First Lego League with him after our second year in First Lego League because he saw, you know, I had the experience as a team member and he had the experience as a referee, judge, volunteer,
[42:45.630 --> 42:52.310]  and so we wanted to put together a book to help other people get started in First Lego League.
[42:52.890 --> 42:53.490]  Wow.
[42:53.670 --> 42:55.030]  That's quite a story.
[42:55.290 --> 42:55.810]  It's amazing.
[42:56.150 --> 43:01.490]  It shows how many people are involved in this, how seriously they take it, and how complex it can all get.
[43:01.830 --> 43:08.090]  Referees and robots, and, you know, you don't think about that when you first hear about Legos, but, yeah, it really gets pretty complex.
[43:08.250 --> 43:14.230]  By the way, our phone lines are open now, so if you were trying to get through, now you can get through 212-209-2950.
[43:15.370 --> 43:16.090]  Pledge $75.
[43:16.290 --> 43:33.010]  You'll get two amazing books on Legos, and you'll wind up learning so much, you might wind up as skilled as Jonathan at some point, and who knows, you'll be building robots, having robots around your house, Lego robots, all sorts of fun things like that,
[43:33.090 --> 43:35.690]  but you've got to call now, 212-209-2950.
[43:35.710 --> 43:49.370]  You'll also get thrown in for good measure the off-the-hook T-shirt, so it's a pretty good deal, but it's only available until 8 o'clock Eastern time if you know somebody who you think might be into this kind of thing, even if you're not into it yourself,
[43:49.950 --> 43:51.650]  it's an amazing present.
[43:51.670 --> 43:55.370]  It's something that will really open up some eyes and keep people out of trouble, too, I think.
[43:55.850 --> 43:57.610]  212-209-2950.
[43:58.270 --> 44:01.910]  So, Jim, tell us something about your experiences.
[44:02.330 --> 44:10.470]  Well, like Jonathan said, I've been a referee and a judge at various FLL competitions, but I go back a ways.
[44:10.650 --> 44:20.110]  I studied robotics a little bit in college, but back then, the robots were the size of a room the arms were like the big ones that you see working on automobiles.
[44:21.010 --> 44:25.190]  And we were given very rare opportunities to even touch these robots.
[44:26.190 --> 44:33.670]  But, you know, like Jonathan, about 10 years ago or so, when Lego released its first robot kit, I went and grabbed one.
[44:33.850 --> 44:37.950]  I was a hobbyist and I started playing around with it and I saw a lot of potential with it.
[44:38.630 --> 44:39.890]  I'm a technical writer.
[44:41.470 --> 44:45.190]  I write for a living a lot of technology-related books and articles.
[44:45.190 --> 44:52.610]  And so a few years back, Lego got a hold of me and said, hey, you know, we've got this new version of the robotics kit coming out.
[44:53.670 --> 44:58.410]  We'd like to see some books written on it and we'd like you to be involved in helping us test the robot.
[44:58.750 --> 45:13.030]  So I got involved in it that way and that gave me sort of an insider's view of the robot kit and I've had a lot more hands-on with it just given I had about a year head start on anybody else seeing the kit.
[45:13.330 --> 45:21.270]  And so when Bill approached us about doing some books for No Starch, Jonathan was a no-brainer.
[45:21.430 --> 45:27.810]  You know, he's young but he's very gifted with robots and he contributed to the first book.
[45:28.210 --> 45:32.130]  So I started looking and I realized there really were not...
[45:32.130 --> 45:34.590]  I was getting a lot of questions from teachers and parents.
[45:35.250 --> 45:36.410]  How do we start a team?
[45:36.530 --> 45:37.410]  How do we get involved?
[45:37.770 --> 45:40.110]  Once I start a team how do I recruit team members?
[45:40.250 --> 45:40.850]  Things like that.
[45:41.310 --> 45:48.050]  And I came to realize that there really was not a one source place for information for a new team.
[45:48.370 --> 46:08.330]  And so I approached Bill and Jonathan basically at the same time and said hey guys, let's do a book A to Z that a new parent or a new teacher that wants to get involved can read start to finish and give them some basic and some advanced information that can get they can hit the ground running.
[46:08.590 --> 46:10.470]  And we've had a lot of positive feedback.
[46:11.310 --> 46:30.490]  I've had coaches parents come up to me and say the book is dog-eared and falling apart because the kids not only do the parents and the teachers read it but the kids they take it home they scour it for as much as they can get and I think we did a pretty good job and Jonathan again was a no-brainer for this.
[46:30.630 --> 46:58.750]  He has come at it from a student's point of view from a participant's point of view and of course he's won the contest his team has won the contest the Champions Awards so he brings to the book real know-how and real tips that teams who want to compete and win and again let me rephrase that winning it's not all about winning we always tell kids it's not about winning it's not about winning but a
[46:58.750 --> 47:01.490]  lot of teams want to do the best They can in the competition.
[47:02.110 --> 47:11.150]  And so we hope that this book is giving the parents and teachers and kids enough material that they feel confident going into the competition.
[47:11.470 --> 47:17.650]  And this first book is First Lego League, The Unofficial Guide, written by Jim Kelly and Jonathan Darlan.
[47:18.050 --> 47:25.710]  And it's being offered here tonight, along with The Unofficial Lego Builder's Guide, written by Alan Bedford.
[47:25.710 --> 47:29.030]  And basically, a couple of words about him.
[47:29.230 --> 47:37.170]  He's a lifelong Lego fan and builder whose most ambitious model to date is a 5,000-piece replica of Toronto's famed CN Tower.
[47:37.650 --> 47:43.810]  And he's active in the online Lego community as well, having contributed ideas and discussions for several years.
[47:44.330 --> 47:49.450]  And again, we're offering that book, along with First Lego League, and an Off the Hook t-shirt.
[47:49.670 --> 47:53.470]  For anybody who calls 212-209-2950, pledges $75.
[47:54.270 --> 47:55.130]  You'll get that.
[47:55.130 --> 47:56.050]  We take credit cards.
[47:56.190 --> 47:57.290]  We take all kinds of things.
[47:57.610 --> 47:59.950]  But right now, we just want to take your phone calls.
[48:00.110 --> 48:05.250]  We have a bunch, but we need a bunch more for us to make our minimum for this hour, which is about $1,000.
[48:05.450 --> 48:08.910]  We're up to $5.50, which is good, but not quite there yet.
[48:08.910 --> 48:16.430]  So if you know somebody who would benefit from this, and I know a lot of people who would benefit from this, call 212-209-2950 and pledge.
[48:16.710 --> 48:18.090]  Join the people who are on the phone already.
[48:18.170 --> 48:19.950]  Now, Mike, I know you had a question about this whole thing.
[48:19.950 --> 48:24.810]  I had a question, and I just want to remind people of the telephone number, 212-209-2950.
[48:25.010 --> 48:32.250]  But my question, and I know, Jim, that you just said it's not just about winning, but I'm really curious how one does, in fact, win.
[48:32.710 --> 48:35.530]  Do the Legos, like, beat each other up, or what happens?
[48:36.230 --> 48:39.790]  You know, imagine an obstacle course with a lot of different things to do.
[48:39.950 --> 48:43.410]  Drop the ball in this, you know, drop a ball in this box.
[48:44.210 --> 48:46.590]  Put this pole in the hole, things like that.
[48:46.710 --> 48:50.550]  But take it on a miniature scale where a small robotics kit would be doing it.
[48:50.970 --> 48:56.270]  And basically what they do is the kids are limited by a tabletop that has a mat.
[48:56.470 --> 49:02.630]  And all the challenges on the table that the robot will attempt are made of Lego pieces themselves.
[49:03.170 --> 49:04.530]  So, you know, it's fun.
[49:04.650 --> 49:09.730]  You watch these kids, they build these little robots, and these robots, they're not remote controlled.
[49:09.970 --> 49:12.090]  Let's, you know, let me make that clear.
[49:12.270 --> 49:17.850]  These kids are programming these robots to go out and do these challenges on their own.
[49:18.370 --> 49:30.930]  And so once they press the go button and the robot starts moving, it's really fun to watch these robots go and lift and move things and place things and turn switches and drop balls and stuff like that.
[49:30.930 --> 49:33.170]  And that's one part of the competition.
[49:33.170 --> 49:36.950]  But, you know, the teams also have to do a lot of research.
[49:37.130 --> 49:42.570]  They have to give a presentation on some technology-related topic, and that changes year to year.
[49:42.970 --> 49:46.710]  They also have to give a talk in front of judges.
[49:46.710 --> 49:59.670]  I've been a technical judge many times, and they have to come in, and for five minutes, they have to give us a presentation about how they designed their robot, what kind of engineering skills they picked up or they learned to accomplish certain things.
[49:59.670 --> 50:05.170]  And Jonathan might want to address the overall, you know, how do you win the competition, because he's certainly done it.
[50:05.630 --> 50:14.150]  Yeah, they have four different categories that you can win, and then there's this one award that's based on all four categories you win.
[50:14.170 --> 50:21.470]  There's the robot performance category, which is just based on your score and how you perform on the field.
[50:22.230 --> 50:28.430]  Then there's the robot design award given to the team who has the best robot design.
[50:28.430 --> 50:33.910]  That's determined from both their performance on the field and their interview with the technical judges.
[50:34.450 --> 50:37.190]  Then they have a teamwork category.
[50:37.770 --> 50:44.710]  The teams have a five-minute interview with judges about their teamwork, how they work together as a team, how they solve problems.
[50:45.350 --> 50:55.590]  And then there's their project category, which is they have to research and solve a real-world problem each year, and then they give a presentation to judges about their research.
[50:56.130 --> 51:04.010]  And then the champion's award, which is considered the overall award, that's based on how the teams did in all four categories.
[51:05.490 --> 51:18.130]  So the thing to recognize with this, with FIRST LEGO League and with LEGO is, if anyone has ever been to a hacker space or knows any serious hackers, there's almost always a building component in a hacker space.
[51:19.230 --> 51:25.970]  Almost every hacker that I know is building something, whether they're constructing something from scratch, taking something apart and rebuilding.
[51:26.270 --> 51:45.130]  What FIRST LEGO League does is it really appeals to the scientist or the creative personality in a young kid, or it kind of moves up in age, and it offers them something constructive to do that they find really appealing.
[51:45.270 --> 51:51.490]  And I can speak for my son, who was 11, whose birthday present when he was 10 was a soldering kid.
[51:51.670 --> 51:53.070]  And that's what he wanted to do.
[51:53.090 --> 51:53.930]  He wanted to make stuff.
[51:53.930 --> 52:02.730]  And there's a real, at the core of so many hackers, is this desire to build stuff.
[52:02.890 --> 52:05.390]  And then LEGO Mindstorms have to be programmed.
[52:05.570 --> 52:07.910]  Programming is an important part of the whole Mindstorms project.
[52:08.130 --> 52:10.550]  So it's a terrific way to combine these things.
[52:10.650 --> 52:12.930]  And I think together this makes a great gift.
[52:13.570 --> 52:27.070]  I'm talking about the two books together for, again, that a kid, your son or daughter, a kid down the street, you know, a nephew, whatever, who's interested and, you know, just wants to build stuff and play around.
[52:27.230 --> 52:37.570]  And you can get both of those books, plus the Off the Hook t-shirt for a pledge of $75, just by calling now, 212-209-2950, country code 1 if you're outside the United States.
[52:37.690 --> 52:39.210]  212-209-2950.
[52:39.390 --> 52:42.030]  We're only going to be offering this for less than 10 minutes.
[52:42.070 --> 52:46.110]  So if you know somebody that would benefit from this, and I guarantee you, you do.
[52:46.250 --> 52:47.710]  You know somebody who will benefit from this.
[52:48.050 --> 52:58.430]  Please give us a call because, most importantly, you're helping the radio station out so that we can talk about things like this and all the other issues we talk about through the course of our broadcasting here.
[52:58.630 --> 53:12.590]  And just to reaffirm Bill's statement, just how incredible FIRST is in LEGOs, my university offers a course, a 300-level computer science course where we are given a Mindstorm LEGO set and we go through the whole FIRST LEGO League competition.
[53:12.790 --> 53:13.070]  Wow.
[53:13.190 --> 53:13.370]  Really?
[53:13.650 --> 53:14.010]  Really.
[53:14.890 --> 53:18.210]  We go out to New York Public City schools and mentor teams.
[53:18.370 --> 53:21.930]  And it was one of the most unbelievable experiences I've ever had to mentor these kids.
[53:22.110 --> 53:25.750]  They were more energetic than I've ever been in my entire life about...
[53:25.750 --> 53:25.910]  They're smart.
[53:26.150 --> 53:26.650]  They're smart kids.
[53:27.130 --> 53:28.070]  Way smarter than me.
[53:28.190 --> 53:29.170]  And I'm, you know...
[53:29.170 --> 53:29.670]  They're pretty smart.
[53:29.770 --> 53:30.270]  Damn smart.
[53:30.410 --> 53:31.930]  Damn smart's a great way to put it.
[53:32.410 --> 53:44.730]  That's one of the things I love most about the LEGO and the FLL combined is from an engineer's point of view, I have an engineering background, I'm seeing kids at a young age once again getting an interest in math and science.
[53:45.150 --> 53:59.090]  And when they finish FLL, because there is an upper age limit, they're moving on to either more advanced robots or they've got just enough interest that they go and they start learning on their own how to solder, how to build circuits, how to program.
[53:59.950 --> 54:12.630]  And I think robotics is really, for the United States, it's a good possibility to get our country, you know, sort of, once again, moving forward with the math and science.
[54:12.630 --> 54:14.950]  And we've got a lot of kids that this has sparked their interest.
[54:15.070 --> 54:16.650]  This will be part of the stimulus plan.
[54:16.750 --> 54:17.430]  Gives me hope.
[54:17.630 --> 54:18.750]  Yeah, with LEGOs.
[54:18.830 --> 54:20.310]  Stimulus with LEGOs, I think...
[54:20.310 --> 54:22.230]  $100 billion will send them lots of...
[54:22.230 --> 54:23.950]  One LEGO kit per child.
[54:24.190 --> 54:24.450]  Wow.
[54:24.550 --> 54:25.870]  Well, I mean, it would do a lot of good.
[54:26.010 --> 54:26.650]  It definitely would.
[54:26.830 --> 54:28.190]  And yeah, go ahead, Kevin.
[54:28.190 --> 54:28.910]  It would really do.
[54:29.270 --> 54:33.870]  I mean, just to give some context, I actually got frustrated while trying to do this.
[54:33.950 --> 54:37.630]  And then I go out and see a 10-year-old kid solve a problem that took me two hours and five minutes.
[54:38.110 --> 54:38.410]  Wow.
[54:38.490 --> 54:39.570]  Put you in your place, huh?
[54:39.770 --> 54:40.910]  Definitely put me in my place.
[54:41.150 --> 54:42.090]  They don't get disappointed.
[54:42.270 --> 54:44.530]  They don't get frustrated when it comes to...
[54:44.530 --> 54:45.030]  They understand...
[54:45.030 --> 54:46.770]  Prototyping is just natural to them.
[54:47.010 --> 54:50.830]  If they try something, if it doesn't work, they rip this piece off, they try something else.
[54:50.990 --> 55:05.070]  And it really is good practice for, you know, when they get older and they have to work with a bunch of adults in developing anything, I think it helps kids understand that, you know, your first solution is not always going to be the final solution.
[55:05.370 --> 55:05.550]  Okay.
[55:05.630 --> 55:06.930]  So, folks, we're in the homestretch here.
[55:07.370 --> 55:08.870]  We have one call left on the line.
[55:08.970 --> 55:10.430]  We had a whole bunch just a few minutes ago.
[55:10.530 --> 55:11.710]  Don't let the people down there rest.
[55:11.890 --> 55:13.310]  They're there to answer phones.
[55:13.510 --> 55:15.210]  We just sent somebody else down to answer phones.
[55:15.330 --> 55:16.810]  212-209-2950.
[55:16.990 --> 55:19.850]  We're at 925, so we're $75 away from our goal, which is great.
[55:21.210 --> 55:35.550]  But I'm sure there's a lot of people out there, a lot more people, who will benefit greatly from having these two books on Legos, basically opening up a whole lot of doors and maybe helping some people that you know will benefit from this, steering a kid into the right direction,
[55:36.070 --> 55:37.390]  just expanding your mind.
[55:37.390 --> 55:38.110]  That's what it's all about.
[55:38.230 --> 55:39.810]  That's what we're here for week after week.
[55:39.950 --> 55:46.730]  And it's marvelous to see it manifested in something like this, something like the whole Lego community.
[55:47.950 --> 55:49.410]  212-209-2950.
[55:49.610 --> 55:52.630]  We have three calls on the line, but again, we only have a couple minutes left.
[55:52.810 --> 55:54.110]  You want to thank people quickly, Redhead?
[55:54.170 --> 55:54.930]  Yeah, let's thank people.
[55:55.010 --> 55:56.590]  All right, make it quick because we're running out of time.
[55:57.310 --> 55:59.790]  Let's start by thanking Brad from Windsor, Connecticut.
[56:00.310 --> 56:01.610]  Okay, got to go faster than that.
[56:01.870 --> 56:02.210]  I'm sorry.
[56:02.750 --> 56:04.350]  Chance from Fort Hood, Texas.
[56:05.090 --> 56:06.350]  Jeanette from Syracuse.
[56:07.130 --> 56:08.310]  Laura from Nyack.
[56:09.090 --> 56:10.110]  Shirley from Brooklyn.
[56:10.670 --> 56:11.650]  Chris from Valley Stream.
[56:12.610 --> 56:14.670]  Adam from Holmdel, New Jersey.
[56:15.310 --> 56:16.330]  JC from Brooklyn.
[56:17.210 --> 56:19.130]  And Eric from Claremont, California.
[56:19.550 --> 56:24.990]  And we actually had someone call in and pledge because they wanted to have the books sent to their school that they work in.
[56:24.990 --> 56:27.510]  Oh, I imagine schools are very interested in this kind of a thing.
[56:27.770 --> 56:28.230]  They are.
[56:28.650 --> 56:29.010]  Absolutely.
[56:29.230 --> 56:33.590]  Okay, folks, we're pretty much out of time, but I want to give you guys a chance to say some final words.
[56:33.690 --> 56:35.890]  Again, our phone number is 212-209-2950.
[56:36.150 --> 56:39.470]  Get both the Lego books and an off-the-hook t-shirt for a pledge of $75.
[56:40.110 --> 56:44.750]  And if you just want the t-shirt, you can pledge $25 and get that or anything above $25 and get that as well.
[56:44.790 --> 56:52.070]  But I really recommend the Lego books because it really livens up a room and makes people think and talk and communicate.
[56:52.350 --> 56:52.910]  Go ahead, guys.
[56:53.770 --> 57:03.210]  Well, let me tell you, if you have a child or if you're a parent of a child and you want to learn more about the robot's kits, go to nostarch.com.
[57:03.330 --> 57:07.930]  Bill has done a great job of putting together a large collection of Lego books.
[57:07.990 --> 57:08.950]  You're just talking about...
[57:08.950 --> 57:13.050]  You've heard mention of two, but he's actually got a nice library of about five going.
[57:13.370 --> 57:19.970]  And these books are plenty to give a parent and a child a lot of thinking, a lot of material to work from.
[57:20.450 --> 57:23.770]  Wait till you see our new book about building military vehicles out of Lego.
[57:23.950 --> 57:24.530]  Oh, boy.
[57:26.090 --> 57:27.090]  Don't give that to your parents.
[57:27.250 --> 57:27.970]  I can hardly wait.
[57:28.710 --> 57:37.810]  Well, Bill Pollack from No Starch, I want to thank you so much both for being here tonight but just for being there in general with the amazing books that you publish and just being there in the community.
[57:38.050 --> 57:39.150]  Very positive for us.
[57:39.650 --> 57:45.570]  And Jim and Jonathan, I want to thank you guys for your efforts, too, and the inspiration that no doubt you've given to a lot of people tonight.
[57:46.190 --> 57:48.490]  And we hope to see you at our next conference.
[57:48.610 --> 57:51.310]  Maybe we can do some kind of Lego display or competition.
[57:51.310 --> 57:52.070]  All right.
[57:52.390 --> 57:52.970]  Thank you, guys.
[57:53.350 --> 57:54.150]  Thanks for having us on.
[57:54.290 --> 57:55.050]  We really appreciate it.
[57:55.110 --> 57:55.590]  Thanks again.
[57:55.770 --> 57:58.930]  Again, our phone number is 212-209-2950.
[57:59.150 --> 58:01.990]  Two Lego books, an off-the-hook t-shirt for a pledge of $75.
[58:02.330 --> 58:03.190]  You can't beat that.
[58:03.670 --> 58:05.410]  All right, let's go out with another phone song.
[58:05.410 --> 58:06.990]  This one for kids.
[58:07.430 --> 58:07.970]  Here you go.
[58:08.330 --> 58:09.330]  All about cell phones.
[58:22.770 --> 58:52.010]  I should have known My mom was talking On her cellular phone We had a mishap In the parking lot Mom was leaving Our parking spot We crunched an SUV It made me groan My mom was talking On her cellular phone Blah, blah, talking At the wheel Or when she's walking We need towing Oh,
[58:52.150 --> 59:17.790]  please watch Where you're going Dad came to help us His face was red Mom took his car keys And off we sped We smashed that car too Although on loan My mom was talking On her cellular phone Blah, blah, talking At the wheel Or when she's walking We need towing Oh,
[59:17.890 --> 59:46.730]  please watch Where you're going I got a brand new bike With a silver bell And a helmet That's just as well Because I also got My very own Shiny brand new Cellular phone Blah, blah, talking At the wheel Or when she's walking We need towing Oh, please watch Where you're going Oh,
[59:47.070 --> 59:55.450]  blah, blah, talking At the wheel Or when she's walking We need towing Or please watch Where you're going
[59:59.350 --> 01:00:00.030]  Hello?
[01:00:00.930 --> 01:00:06.410]  Oh, yeah I'm riding my bike On the sidewalk No, no It's perfectly
[01:00:13.190 --> 01:00:16.810]  All right Another phone song Hey, out there