[00:06.950 --> 00:08.730]  Is someone you know in prison or jail?
[00:08.970 --> 00:13.970]  Do you want to know more about the American system of justice and how it is applied to poor people and people of color?
[00:14.330 --> 00:18.510]  Have you ever thought about why so many blacks and Latinos are stopped, frisked, and arrested?
[00:18.730 --> 00:20.550]  Or why so many of them fill up the prisons?
[00:20.770 --> 00:26.650]  If you want answers to these questions and others, tune in to On The Count, the prison and criminal justice report.
[00:26.850 --> 00:30.770]  The only program on radio that is produced by people who were formerly incarcerated.
[00:30.770 --> 00:41.610]  Saturday mornings from 10.30 until noon over WBAI, 99.5 on the FM dial, or visit our archives at www.onthecount.org.
[00:51.100 --> 00:52.440]  And the time is 7 o'clock.
[00:52.440 --> 00:54.620]  You're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:54.820 --> 00:56.880]  It's time once again for Off the Hook.
[01:12.840 --> 01:15.040]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:17.380 --> 01:20.440]  Von Dilly Bump for the best, expect the worst.
[01:21.080 --> 01:22.940]  I hope that's understood.
[01:23.120 --> 01:24.020]  Von Dilly Bump!
[02:20.190 --> 02:22.210]  And getting started by the program is Off the Hook.
[02:22.330 --> 02:24.850]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:25.330 --> 02:28.490]  Joined this week by... not Kevin?
[02:28.990 --> 02:29.410]  Hello.
[02:29.650 --> 02:30.610]  Bernie Estown, Philadelphia.
[02:31.230 --> 02:32.230]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:32.410 --> 02:32.610]  Jim.
[02:32.990 --> 02:33.410]  Hi.
[02:33.730 --> 02:34.130]  Rob T.
[02:34.250 --> 02:34.690]  Firefly.
[02:34.970 --> 02:35.350]  Good evening.
[02:35.530 --> 02:35.790]  Mike.
[02:36.290 --> 02:36.490]  Hi.
[02:37.130 --> 02:41.410]  And special guest in all the way from Canada is RenderMan.
[02:41.670 --> 02:41.910]  Hello.
[02:42.170 --> 02:42.470]  How you doing?
[02:42.670 --> 02:43.250]  What brings you here?
[02:43.850 --> 02:45.030]  Came in through Norway.
[02:45.590 --> 02:46.770]  Well, that's a weird way to get here.
[02:47.050 --> 02:48.250]  That's what happens when you book here in Canada.
[02:48.790 --> 02:50.050]  Trouble at the border, I guess.
[02:50.890 --> 02:51.230]  Wow.
[02:51.430 --> 02:52.010]  Norway, huh?
[02:52.170 --> 02:53.530]  Well, that's a fun place to be.
[02:53.830 --> 02:53.970]  Yeah.
[02:54.130 --> 02:55.230]  What's going on in Norway?
[02:55.590 --> 02:57.950]  I was speaking at a conference out there called HackCon.
[02:58.650 --> 02:59.050]  HackCon?
[02:59.190 --> 02:59.290]  Yeah.
[02:59.470 --> 02:59.730]  Wow.
[02:59.770 --> 03:00.790]  Is that about hacking?
[03:01.470 --> 03:03.810]  It's more for the security professional kind.
[03:03.810 --> 03:09.110]  They brought in a whole bunch of hackers from North America here to come in and talk to them and scare the living daylights out of them.
[03:09.610 --> 03:13.170]  And did the hackers of North America scare the living daylights out of the crowd?
[03:13.370 --> 03:13.590]  Yeah.
[03:13.770 --> 03:14.270]  It was...
[03:14.270 --> 03:15.030]  We were quite effective.
[03:15.150 --> 03:16.950]  Tell us something that you might have said to them to scare them.
[03:17.030 --> 03:18.230]  And maybe our audience will get scared, too.
[03:19.250 --> 03:25.670]  Basically, what I was doing was a six-hour training on wireless security and proceeded to inject my face into all their traffic.
[03:26.030 --> 03:27.330]  And so any website...
[03:27.330 --> 03:27.610]  Literally.
[03:27.610 --> 03:29.170]  You injected your face into their traffic.
[03:29.290 --> 03:29.450]  Yes.
[03:29.650 --> 03:30.190]  They saw your face.
[03:30.190 --> 03:34.210]  The pictures that came up were my face instead of what they were expecting, which is always entertaining.
[03:34.590 --> 03:40.270]  So, now, what kind of security hole might we not know about that your face could suddenly end up in the middle of?
[03:40.590 --> 03:46.030]  Pretty much anybody using an open wireless hotspot, you know, at a Starbucks or whatever, anything that doesn't have encryption.
[03:46.210 --> 03:55.770]  Let's say I go to a Starbucks, which I would never do, but if I did and I had my laptop and I was, you know, connecting to a server someplace, would I be at risk from you attacking me?
[03:56.050 --> 03:56.870]  Quite possibly.
[03:57.050 --> 03:57.130]  Yeah?
[03:57.770 --> 03:58.170]  So...
[03:58.170 --> 04:00.170]  What can people do to prevent you from doing this?
[04:00.930 --> 04:08.230]  VPNs, using something like Tor that provides a level of encryption that, you know, is beyond just authenticating to the access point.
[04:08.470 --> 04:08.710]  Mm-hmm.
[04:09.270 --> 04:09.670]  So...
[04:09.670 --> 04:09.990]  Okay.
[04:10.310 --> 04:11.830]  Can you break in on an SSH client?
[04:12.370 --> 04:18.810]  Not as of yet, but, you know, it depends on if they've used a Debian one that is a less than random number generator.
[04:18.950 --> 04:21.130]  If I'm using, say, Putty or something to get from...
[04:21.130 --> 04:21.630]  Yeah, you're probably good.
[04:21.630 --> 04:23.790]  ...a Windows machine to a server someplace...
[04:23.790 --> 04:24.510]  Then you're probably good.
[04:24.570 --> 04:25.110]  I'm probably good.
[04:25.110 --> 04:26.090]  Okay, well, that's good to know.
[04:26.150 --> 04:30.930]  But if I'm browsing porn on the web, which is what people do in Starbucks...
[04:30.930 --> 04:31.630]  Then I own you.
[04:31.830 --> 04:32.590]  Okay, interesting.
[04:32.790 --> 04:33.610]  All right, good to know that.
[04:33.750 --> 04:35.910]  I'm just spreading rumors now about what goes on at Starbucks.
[04:36.430 --> 04:38.790]  But anything else from this conference that came up?
[04:38.790 --> 04:42.270]  One of our speakers had a rather entertaining experience.
[04:42.490 --> 04:44.530]  Sandy Clark, she was speaking...
[04:44.530 --> 04:47.610]  She's a PhD candidate at University of UPenn.
[04:48.990 --> 04:54.750]  And she was on the team that did the security analysis of the Ohio voting machines.
[04:54.870 --> 04:55.130]  Oh, yeah.
[04:55.490 --> 04:55.830]  Yeah, yeah.
[04:55.850 --> 04:56.290]  I remember that.
[04:56.290 --> 05:00.010]  And she was giving a speech over there about what they had found.
[05:00.330 --> 05:05.130]  They only had 10 weeks, but they had a 300-page report of vulnerabilities that they found.
[05:06.790 --> 05:10.510]  She was giving the speech saying, you know, this is the problems we ran into.
[05:10.770 --> 05:12.410]  This was all stuff that was approved.
[05:13.390 --> 05:16.190]  And Norway apparently is looking at doing internet voting.
[05:17.050 --> 05:18.050]  So all of us...
[05:18.050 --> 05:20.170]  Voting right over electronic voting and going into internet voting.
[05:20.210 --> 05:22.290]  Yeah, you can sit at home and vote in your underwear.
[05:22.870 --> 05:27.610]  You know, Norwegians generally are smart, but I think this is an indication of how they might have fallen off the bus.
[05:27.790 --> 05:33.390]  This was a case where all of us were asking the question, what's so broken about the current system that you need to change it?
[05:33.470 --> 05:34.390]  And what is their current system?
[05:34.530 --> 05:37.150]  Their current system is very much like what we use in Canada.
[05:37.310 --> 05:38.210]  It's like pen and paper.
[05:38.390 --> 05:41.130]  You have to go to the voting place and do your thing there.
[05:42.290 --> 05:43.890]  That's the modern way of doing things.
[05:43.930 --> 05:44.950]  We have to try that someday.
[05:45.170 --> 05:45.290]  Yeah.
[05:46.770 --> 05:47.750]  Pen and paper.
[05:48.050 --> 05:51.950]  Yeah, for us, it's just an X in a box and, you know, they run it through the machine.
[05:52.170 --> 05:54.950]  Well, that's taxing our mentality a little bit, but...
[05:54.950 --> 06:04.070]  But over there, the whole system, they seem to want to improve it for whatever reason and don't think they thought it's completely through.
[06:04.630 --> 06:04.990]  So...
[06:04.990 --> 06:08.610]  Well, now, have they thought it through since you've been there that maybe they've come to a different conclusion now?
[06:08.790 --> 06:20.610]  Yeah, we ended up getting some press when we were over there basically saying that just from what we've been able to tell, well, this is not well thought up, thought through that there's a lot of vulnerabilities because you can't control what goes on on the client.
[06:20.610 --> 06:23.750]  You can't necessarily guarantee end-to-end security.
[06:24.230 --> 06:28.890]  And basically, we made enough of a noise that a lot of people are asking a lot of questions now.
[06:29.030 --> 06:34.970]  We actually had the head of the department or agency that's in charge of this whole thing at her speech.
[06:34.970 --> 06:40.050]  And, you know, Sandy's this little, like, five-foot-tall woman, and this guy was, like, six and a half feet.
[06:40.170 --> 06:42.230]  So the two of them arguing was absolutely hilarious.
[06:43.310 --> 06:43.630]  Wow.
[06:43.630 --> 06:47.110]  But it seems that the right people are asking the right questions now, which is good.
[06:47.130 --> 06:49.310]  So we managed to affect international politics.
[06:49.530 --> 06:50.610]  They actually listened to you.
[06:50.670 --> 06:51.170]  That's the thing.
[06:51.230 --> 06:51.950]  That doesn't happen here.
[06:51.970 --> 06:54.230]  You actually went to these people and they listened to what you had to say.
[06:54.410 --> 06:55.950]  Yeah, because they wanted us there.
[06:56.070 --> 07:02.870]  They wanted to hear straight from instead of some guy who's, you know, oh, I read this on this website and, you know, now I've got a product to sell you to fix the problem.
[07:02.870 --> 07:11.490]  They wanted, you know, the people who are actually developing the exploits who have actually done the research themselves and to come over there and, you know, hear it straight from the horse's mouth.
[07:11.830 --> 07:13.250]  Well, random man, congratulations.
[07:13.730 --> 07:17.450]  And congratulations to everybody else who went over there and actually managed to change something.
[07:17.590 --> 07:17.670]  Yeah.
[07:19.030 --> 07:20.770]  So anything else you want to tell us about HACON?
[07:21.530 --> 07:22.570]  No, good conference.
[07:22.830 --> 07:24.830]  The folks over there take really good care of us.
[07:24.970 --> 07:26.250]  So I really like Norway.
[07:26.490 --> 07:27.810]  Yeah, Norway is a fun place.
[07:27.850 --> 07:28.790]  I've been there twice now.
[07:29.170 --> 07:31.730]  And, yeah, hope to go back.
[07:31.730 --> 07:32.830]  At some point.
[07:33.370 --> 07:35.830]  And now they're not going to have Internet voting, supposedly.
[07:36.110 --> 07:36.710]  All the better.
[07:37.830 --> 07:38.230]  Okay.
[07:38.430 --> 07:40.270]  Anybody have any stories they'd like to focus on?
[07:41.070 --> 07:42.230]  Bernie, anything down in Philadelphia?
[07:42.650 --> 07:43.570]  I have an announcement.
[07:43.970 --> 07:44.370]  Okay.
[07:44.610 --> 07:45.670]  Sounds rather sobering.
[07:45.790 --> 07:46.030]  Go ahead.
[07:46.230 --> 07:47.170]  Well, it's a good announcement.
[07:47.310 --> 07:47.670]  It's a good announcement.
[07:47.870 --> 07:51.770]  The 21st Annual SWL Fest.
[07:51.950 --> 07:53.490]  SWL stands for shortwave listener.
[07:54.310 --> 08:03.710]  It's a gathering of a few hundred radio enthusiasts, people who are interested in monitoring all aspects of the radio spectrum from D.C.
[08:03.790 --> 08:04.210]  to daylight.
[08:04.530 --> 08:11.590]  You know, long wave, medium wave, shortwave, VHF, UHF, microwave, satellites, you name it.
[08:11.590 --> 08:19.350]  And it also happens to be the country's largest gathering of shortwave pirate broadcasters.
[08:19.590 --> 08:22.290]  And if you want information about it, it's this Friday and Saturday.
[08:22.610 --> 08:25.990]  You can go to SWLFest.com.
[08:25.990 --> 08:29.870]  It's a good group of people, and it's pretty interesting stuff.
[08:31.230 --> 08:32.310]  Shortwave pirates.
[08:32.530 --> 08:34.830]  Now, how many shortwave pirate stations are out there?
[08:35.290 --> 08:39.670]  Well, there's a lot in the U.S., and there's a lot of Euro pirates.
[08:39.950 --> 08:42.090]  There's just some really interesting activity out there.
[08:42.150 --> 08:59.090]  These are people who just refuse to pay millions of dollars for a broadcast license, but want to reach a very wide audience, as in around, you know, reach a whole country or a whole continent or, you know, large parts of the world.
[08:59.770 --> 09:05.250]  And they can, without a lot of money, a few hundred, a few thousand dollars, set up a shortwave.
[09:05.410 --> 09:10.370]  The shortwave is generally from, like, 3 to 30 megahertz on the RF spectrum.
[09:10.650 --> 09:14.970]  And it's amazing how much range these stations can get, hundreds or thousands of miles.
[09:14.970 --> 09:20.530]  Coincidentally, off the hook, is now being simulcast live on shortwave as well.
[09:20.530 --> 09:35.270]  We were in the past on 7415 kilohertz, but now, courtesy of the generosity of WBCQ in Maine, we're simulcasting on 5110 kilohertz, or 5.11 megahertz, right now.
[09:35.690 --> 09:48.170]  So people from... that station happens to be located in Maine, but it's broadcasting towards Mexico, because there's no... the FCC doesn't allow any domestic shortwave broadcasters in this country for various reasons.
[09:48.810 --> 09:57.710]  So that station decided to put their transmitter in Maine and target Mexico, and it just so happens the United States happens to be in the way, in the signal path.
[09:57.710 --> 10:03.810]  So anybody between Maine and Mexico should be able to hear off the hook right now on 5.11 megahertz.
[10:04.130 --> 10:06.150]  Now, Bernie, I have a question.
[10:06.550 --> 10:06.870]  Yeah.
[10:07.210 --> 10:10.550]  You said you can become a shortwave pirate for just a few thousand dollars.
[10:10.550 --> 10:12.330]  Does that include the cost of the eye patch?
[10:14.430 --> 10:15.070]  That's included.
[10:15.690 --> 10:16.570]  That's a good deal, then.
[10:16.770 --> 10:17.150]  You get that.
[10:17.230 --> 10:21.670]  I was actually... I was at an ophthalmologist today, and actually I had to wear an eye patch, so I felt like a pirate.
[10:22.150 --> 10:25.730]  But in any case, I asked if I could have it, and they said no.
[10:25.730 --> 10:34.690]  I wanted to bring it to the SWL Fest and fit in, but I fit in anyway, because I've been involved with various radio projects in the past, which I shan't speak of.
[10:34.890 --> 10:36.870]  In any case, it's a good bunch of people.
[10:36.870 --> 10:40.770]  If you go to SWLFest.com, you can read more about this event.
[10:40.930 --> 10:41.850]  It's just a few hundred people.
[10:41.990 --> 10:44.630]  It's in Lamp, L.P., about a half an hour north of Philadelphia.
[10:45.150 --> 10:47.410]  And people from all over the world come to this thing.
[10:47.410 --> 10:48.310]  It's not just Americans.
[10:48.570 --> 10:52.330]  We get people from Finland, from China, from Russia.
[10:53.090 --> 10:53.670]  Broadcasters, too.
[10:53.770 --> 11:00.530]  There's actual broadcasters, legitimate nations, broadcasters, as well as pirates, show up at this thing.
[11:00.530 --> 11:01.470]  And you can monitor...
[11:01.470 --> 11:06.550]  They have a satellite demo set up where you can watch everything from...
[11:06.550 --> 11:12.970]  You can just watch some really interesting satellite broadcasts from other countries that you would never be able to see any other way.
[11:13.010 --> 11:14.050]  That's the free-to-air stuff.
[11:14.330 --> 11:15.910]  So, come on down.
[11:16.270 --> 11:16.670]  All right.
[11:16.730 --> 11:26.010]  But speaking of pirate radio, Bernie, I feel compelled to bring up a more serious issue here because you might not be telling people exactly how dangerous pirate radio can be.
[11:26.010 --> 11:29.990]  In fact, in the UK, they say pirate radio puts lives at risk.
[11:30.350 --> 11:36.450]  Regulator Ofcom says the broadcast can put lives at risk by interfering with emergency service frequencies.
[11:36.610 --> 11:38.570]  They can also block legitimate stations.
[11:38.570 --> 11:44.550]  So, if you can't hear Hot 100 or whatever, you may very well be in danger of losing your life.
[11:45.050 --> 11:49.590]  Police officers raided an address in North London which they say housed an illegal radio station.
[11:49.730 --> 11:50.770]  Five people were arrested.
[11:50.890 --> 11:54.750]  Officers seized thousands of pounds worth of broadcasting and musical equipment.
[11:54.750 --> 11:56.150]  That's some heavy equipment, isn't it?
[11:56.450 --> 11:57.250]  Thousands of pounds.
[11:57.470 --> 11:57.670]  Wow.
[11:57.990 --> 11:59.090]  I know what pounds mean.
[11:59.190 --> 11:59.890]  Don't look at me like that.
[12:00.810 --> 12:01.610]  Ofcom says...
[12:01.610 --> 12:03.130]  That's about 450 grams, right?
[12:03.290 --> 12:03.590]  Yeah.
[12:03.670 --> 12:08.310]  There are more than 150 pirate radio stations operating across the UK, half of which operate in London.
[12:09.150 --> 12:10.410]  I've heard a bunch of them, actually.
[12:10.950 --> 12:12.910]  And the southeast of England as well.
[12:13.550 --> 12:22.050]  Last year, officers raided 43 studios used by illegal stations and shut down 838 illegal transmitters.
[12:22.050 --> 12:27.130]  Ofcom's head of investigations said that pirate radio was not a victimless crime.
[12:27.310 --> 12:29.390]  Ofcom receives complaints from the emergency services.
[12:29.550 --> 12:34.850]  The two services that are most affected are the National Air Traffic Services and the London Fire Brigade.
[12:34.970 --> 12:45.150]  In both instances, because of the proximity of the frequencies used by those services and the illegal broadcasters, they can suffer some difficulties when trying to use their radio systems to communicate.
[12:45.150 --> 12:55.150]  But one pirate DJ said in this story that was reported on the BBC that while pirate stations may have interfered with the emergency services in the past, it was now a rare occurrence.
[12:55.650 --> 13:00.070]  Problems can occur if people use a badly built link box that connects the studio to the transmitter.
[13:00.550 --> 13:04.510]  These systems, called Band 1, can put out multiples of their frequencies.
[13:04.510 --> 13:09.310]  So a link on 50 MHz could spill out onto 100 MHz and other high band frequencies.
[13:09.430 --> 13:10.470]  He's talking about harmonics.
[13:10.470 --> 13:14.170]  I would say 90% of pirates don't use Band 1 links anymore.
[13:14.170 --> 13:17.550]  We all use microwave links that are completely interference-free.
[13:17.750 --> 13:23.450]  I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but we check all our stuff to make sure it's clean and on the band.
[13:24.050 --> 13:28.230]  It's amazing how technical they're getting here in this BBC report.
[13:28.570 --> 13:34.750]  They also say, though, that they're trying to go legit, but it's incredibly expensive.
[13:35.310 --> 13:48.450]  Once we looked into it, this pirate broadcaster says they wanted us to show that we had 25,000 pounds in sponsorship to prove that we could actually establish the business for a length of time, which is far more than we would actually need, even to apply cost money,
[13:48.590 --> 13:50.890]  and Ofcom can still say no.
[13:51.090 --> 13:52.810]  So it's just not worth the effort.
[13:53.390 --> 13:54.590]  Any comment on that, Bernie?
[13:54.730 --> 13:54.850]  Yes.
[13:55.370 --> 13:56.190]  I do have a comment.
[13:56.550 --> 14:06.030]  Governments, not just in the UK, but in the US, have always pulled out that same old, tired excuse that this could interfere with aircraft communications.
[14:06.110 --> 14:07.730]  This is extremely rare.
[14:08.950 --> 14:17.230]  Malfunctioning aeronautical radios cause far more interference to aeronautical communications than malfunctioning pirate radio stations.
[14:17.370 --> 14:27.850]  It is true that the FM broadcast band, both in the US and the UK, is just below the VHS aircraft band.
[14:27.990 --> 14:36.190]  And it's true that a really sloppily designed and poorly put together FM private station could interfere with that.
[14:36.190 --> 14:37.930]  It's very unlikely.
[14:38.130 --> 14:45.190]  Anybody who has half a brain would not use equipment that would... and set it up in a way that would cause that.
[14:45.370 --> 14:46.570]  But there's an interesting example.
[14:46.830 --> 14:53.770]  Also, international aircraft... international flights use shortwave frequencies.
[14:54.210 --> 15:08.050]  And for many years, 7415 kilohertz, or 7.415 megahertz, which now happens to be a licensed frequency for WBCQ in Maine, which is an international shortwave broadcaster, that, for many years, was an aeronautical broadcast frequency.
[15:08.050 --> 15:09.110]  It just wasn't used.
[15:09.190 --> 15:10.890]  It just was in that range of frequencies.
[15:11.410 --> 15:14.350]  And a lot of North American pirates were using that frequency.
[15:14.450 --> 15:21.570]  And FCC was busting them, raiding them, citing that this could interfere with international aeronautical radio traffic.
[15:21.570 --> 15:33.390]  And then, the Voice of America set up a relay transmitter to Botswana on 7415 kilohertz.
[15:33.630 --> 15:50.570]  So any credibility the FCC had with that argument that shortwave pirates on that frequency in that band were interfering with aeronautical frequencies was laid bare as just a bald-faced lie, because the Voice of America decided to set up shop on that exact same frequency.
[15:50.830 --> 16:03.230]  So you have to take for the grain of salt anything that national governments say about pirate radio operators, whether they're FM or shortwave, interfering with people's lives and safety.
[16:03.250 --> 16:08.410]  It's simply an excuse to shut them down, because they don't like free and independent voices on the air.
[16:09.090 --> 16:09.530]  Amen.
[16:10.390 --> 16:10.830]  Okay.
[16:11.290 --> 16:13.850]  Moving on to some phone issues.
[16:14.250 --> 16:15.950]  And this is kind of an interesting story right now.
[16:15.950 --> 16:28.710]  So, T-Mobile USA says it obtained a final judgment and permanent injunction as a part of efforts to fight unauthorized bulk purchase and resale of its prepaid phones and accessories.
[16:29.370 --> 16:39.330]  The order was handed down by a federal court in Brooklyn, permanently enjoining DK Wireless, which does business as Wireless Touch and Talk to Me, with two as a number.
[16:40.770 --> 16:44.470]  Basically, IA Communication is another name they go by.
[16:44.470 --> 16:52.430]  And the company's principal, AJ Metta, this is enjoining them from continuing to traffic in T-Mobile prepaid wireless phones.
[16:52.550 --> 16:58.310]  In addition, the judgment awards T-Mobile $5 million in damages against the corporate defendants.
[16:58.690 --> 17:07.170]  Now, what T-Mobile is saying here is that other prepaid service providers and themselves are trying to end phone trafficking.
[17:07.170 --> 17:12.790]  It's become a big enough problem for track phone wireless that had initiated an ad campaign about it last year.
[17:13.410 --> 17:23.670]  Service providers subsidize their phones, so when traffickers buy boatloads, reprogram them, and sell them overseas, the operators lose out any potential revenue they could get from customers using the phones.
[17:24.470 --> 17:30.710]  Prior to the New York court's ruling, T-Mobile was awarded more than $9 million in judgments entered in other similar cases.
[17:31.890 --> 17:43.690]  And Virgin Mobile USA estimates that in 2005, 2006, and 2007, about 228,000, 322,000, and 76,000 of its handsets were bought and resold in bulk.
[17:43.830 --> 17:51.350]  It went way down that last year, which resulted in a loss of about $25.4 million, $30.4 million, and $5.2 million, respectively.
[17:51.970 --> 17:54.550]  The thing I don't get here is, why is that wrong?
[17:54.550 --> 18:01.070]  Why exactly is it wrong for somebody to buy a phone and then sell it to somebody else in a different part of the world, Rob?
[18:01.290 --> 18:01.950]  Yeah, I agree.
[18:02.130 --> 18:06.910]  I mean, T-Mobile or whatever company decides to subsidize their phones in hopes that they'll make the money back from you.
[18:07.010 --> 18:09.970]  But if it doesn't work out the way they planned, they still gave you a phone.
[18:10.110 --> 18:11.410]  So what's wrong with using it?
[18:11.430 --> 18:19.250]  You're not saying that by buying this phone, you're locked into their terms of agreement for what you have to do with that phone.
[18:19.330 --> 18:20.550]  You can do whatever you want with that phone.
[18:20.550 --> 18:25.290]  You can throw it in the trash or, you know, give it to somebody else or sell it to somebody else.
[18:25.370 --> 18:33.270]  But how is it that they're winning these court cases and getting these huge settlements just because people are selling something and trying to make a profit?
[18:33.370 --> 18:34.210]  Isn't that the American way?
[18:34.410 --> 18:34.690]  Renderman.
[18:35.590 --> 18:49.690]  These guys actually got up relatively lucky with just fines because I know there's been a couple of cases where, you know, you have a Walmart in one state will be having a sale on, you know, prepaid cell phones for, as a loss leader, selling them really cheap.
[18:49.690 --> 19:00.330]  Somebody will go in there and buy them, you know, buy the arm load, load them up, take them to another state, sell them to a reseller there and come up with a profit because, you know, the price differential between the two markets.
[19:00.990 --> 19:07.390]  A lot of these guys have actually been nailed as suspected terrorists because if they're buying them by the arm load, therefore, they must be doing something bad with them.
[19:07.390 --> 19:10.470]  What else could they want to use a phone for than terrorism?
[19:10.750 --> 19:13.510]  You must be buying in bulk so you can't be tracked and all that stuff.
[19:13.550 --> 19:14.050]  Bernie, you got something?
[19:14.910 --> 19:20.110]  Yeah, I mean, as Rob pointed out, that, you know, if they're giving away a phone, they expect to make some money.
[19:20.270 --> 19:21.650]  And, you know, these are prepaid cell phones.
[19:21.830 --> 19:33.170]  These are phones that you can go into a Walmart or a Walgreens or a Kmart or some other drug store and just buy them off the shelf for $10 or $20, whatever.
[19:33.930 --> 19:40.070]  And then they're programmed to be locked to a specific carrier, a track phone or T-Mobile prepaid, one of these other prepaid services.
[19:40.070 --> 19:49.290]  These people are simply buying products off the shelf, these people who are being sued, are buying products off the shelf and simply reselling to other people.
[19:49.410 --> 19:50.270]  They're reprogramming them.
[19:50.430 --> 19:51.010]  It's a value...
[19:51.010 --> 19:52.390]  I think it's a value-added service.
[19:52.570 --> 20:00.090]  They're unlocking them so they can be used on other carriers and then shipping them to markets where people need inexpensive phones.
[20:00.090 --> 20:01.270]  I see nothing wrong with it.
[20:01.330 --> 20:01.870]  And it's interesting.
[20:01.990 --> 20:04.230]  They're not being criminally prosecuted.
[20:04.350 --> 20:11.610]  These people are just simply being beaten up with truckloads of lawyers who they can't afford to defend themselves against.
[20:11.850 --> 20:16.610]  And that's why these cases are being decided in T-Mobile's and track phone's favor.
[20:17.190 --> 20:18.450]  I think it's sour grapes.
[20:18.730 --> 20:26.110]  You know, if you want to sell phones for $10, as Rob pointed out, and hope you make money, if you don't make money with some of them, that's too bad.
[20:26.490 --> 20:28.510]  You know, find a better business model.
[20:28.690 --> 20:32.770]  If you're selling them over $10 or $20, you've got to expect people are going to do whatever they want to do with them.
[20:32.890 --> 20:38.050]  You need them for paperweights or resell them or having target practice with them, whatever.
[20:38.050 --> 20:39.710]  If you buy it, you should own it.
[20:40.250 --> 20:40.550]  Okay.
[20:41.110 --> 20:49.070]  Yeah, I think it's the concept called first sale, which means if you buy any item, any goods, you have the right to resell them.
[20:49.490 --> 20:54.090]  You don't have to, you know, you're allowed to resell it.
[20:54.170 --> 20:58.310]  Why aren't these companies going after eBay sellers who are selling these by the boatload?
[20:58.550 --> 21:00.870]  Are they selling by the boatload or are they only selling one at a time?
[21:01.310 --> 21:04.670]  Well, if they have 100 phones and sell it one at a time, it's the same.
[21:04.670 --> 21:06.410]  No, I agree.
[21:06.590 --> 21:08.310]  And maybe they are going after the eBay people as well.
[21:08.610 --> 21:09.690]  It's entirely possible.
[21:09.890 --> 21:17.390]  It's just weird that they can actually expect the rest of us to abide by their desires on how to make as much money as they possibly can.
[21:18.810 --> 21:29.350]  Very strange and a bit against what you think people will agree to do, including, I'm looking for a story here.
[21:29.350 --> 21:47.250]  Um, also this story here, uh, about doctors, uh, you've seen this one too, Rob, I believe, uh, doctors now requiring some doctors requiring patients not to post criticisms online, wary of critical internet reviews on rating services, such as Indianapolis-based Angie's list.
[21:47.450 --> 21:52.770]  Some doctors are fighting back by forcing patients to sign agreements that they won't criticize them online.
[21:52.930 --> 21:54.550]  This is, couldn't make this up if I tried.
[21:54.550 --> 22:02.170]  Uh, in some cases, if patients don't sign a document, which critics say is effectively a gag order, the physician could turn them away.
[22:02.390 --> 22:09.310]  Some rating services say the move is an attempt to stifle free speech, but the doctors say it's necessary to protect their reputations and practices.
[22:09.630 --> 22:22.750]  Uh, consumers and patients are hungry for good information about doctors, but internet reviews provide just the opposite, contends Dr. Jeffrey Siegel, a North Carolina neurosurgeon who has made a business of helping doctors monitor and prevent online criticism.
[22:23.450 --> 22:29.250]  Some sites are a little more than tabloid journalism without much interest in constructively improving practices.
[22:29.750 --> 22:34.210]  And their sniping comments can unfairly ruin a doctor's reputation, he said.
[22:34.430 --> 22:36.190]  I know, Rob, you have some strong feelings about this.
[22:36.690 --> 22:44.250]  Yeah, basically, if you need to quell the tide of public opinion and silence them in order to protect your reputation, then you're doing your job wrong.
[22:44.430 --> 22:46.090]  A reputation is supposed to be earned, honestly.
[22:46.610 --> 22:46.970]  Absolutely.
[22:47.830 --> 22:48.570]  Uh, yes, Mike?
[22:48.570 --> 23:01.610]  It seems to me that if someone, uh, violated this agreement and, and then got sued by the doctor, that would be so much worse publicity than any single negative review could possibly provide, that, uh, you know, the whole thing would collapse pretty quickly.
[23:02.330 --> 23:03.130]  Yes, absolutely.
[23:03.870 --> 23:04.190]  Emmanuel?
[23:04.350 --> 23:04.810]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[23:05.350 --> 23:15.590]  I, I, I have, uh, heard of cases where doctors themselves have posted, uh, very positive and glowing reviews about themselves on Angie'sList.com.
[23:15.990 --> 23:25.790]  So, um, apparently it's okay if the reviews are good, but it's not okay and they're willing to sue people or deny the medical care if the reviews could be bad.
[23:28.290 --> 23:28.770]  Okay.
[23:29.170 --> 23:33.550]  Um, I'd like to, um, to read some listener mail, actually, because we, uh, we've been getting a ton of it.
[23:33.550 --> 23:53.730]  Uh, O-T-H at 2600.com is our email address and, um, um, um, we've gotten some response to, um, um, last week we were talking about, um, this, this, this bill that's, um, underway to, uh, to force cell phone cameras to make noise whenever they take a picture so that the,
[23:53.910 --> 24:03.190]  um, uh, the, the, the problem, the, the massive problem of people taking pictures of children in changing rooms and stores without their knowledge will go away.
[24:03.550 --> 24:09.650]  And, uh, they still haven't figured out what to do about deaf children and how they're going to be alerted to, uh, these cameras taking pictures of, of them.
[24:10.050 --> 24:15.030]  Uh, but, uh, this listener writes in, Jim, in New Jersey, most cell phones are not manufactured in the USA anymore.
[24:15.030 --> 24:23.790]  So the proposed law would just reduce the purchase of American made cell phones and increase purchase of foreign made such as, uh, China and Southeastern Asia, Hungary, phones like that.
[24:33.550 --> 24:36.350]  And, uh, Gus, you're joining us from, uh, outside.
[24:36.550 --> 24:36.790]  Hi.
[24:37.070 --> 24:37.430]  Welcome.
[24:38.190 --> 24:39.590]  Any, any comments on what you've heard so far?
[24:40.030 --> 24:46.610]  Um, the, the part about the doctors was, uh, that just, that's, you know, I had an incident like that happen recently.
[24:46.790 --> 24:47.890]  It makes me sort of feel like...
[24:47.890 --> 24:48.390]  You criticized the doctor?
[24:48.550 --> 24:49.330]  I, uh...
[24:49.330 --> 24:50.090]  How dare you?
[24:50.950 --> 24:51.310]  Heavens!
[24:51.710 --> 25:01.670]  Uh, no, it's, um, uh, it, it starts to feel to me like there's more than one internet and there's one internet where people believe they can sanitize the internet and make all the bad things go away and there's another internet where there isn't.
[25:01.810 --> 25:13.470]  And there's that, uh, a gal who's in my high school class, who I think I'll call Marie on the air, that's her middle name, um, who, uh, some friend from high school wrote a comment on my website a while ago in, in using her name in a completely nonsensical,
[25:13.610 --> 25:15.790]  spurious fashion that had nothing to do with her, actually.
[25:16.050 --> 25:17.210]  She wrote me a little while back.
[25:17.290 --> 25:19.590]  She's like, I'm, I'm now a lawyer with the, with the government.
[25:19.910 --> 25:25.130]  Um, and my employers want me to sanitize all traces of my existence off the internet, basically.
[25:25.310 --> 25:26.810]  So could you please take that comment down?
[25:27.030 --> 25:28.030]  Into the memory hole.
[25:28.230 --> 25:29.070]  Into the memory hole.
[25:29.070 --> 25:36.970]  And I told her, well, I can't because I have my own memory hole issues because my old blog is backed up someplace in a chunk of spam that's 1.5 gigs large.
[25:36.990 --> 25:42.790]  And we had to use the, the, uh, cloud computing jaws of life to just get my blog out of there to begin with.
[25:42.930 --> 25:44.790]  So actually deleting any comments is impossible.
[25:45.030 --> 25:48.150]  And she's like, well, you sound like you understand this much better than I do.
[25:48.270 --> 25:49.750]  And I'm like, that's the problem.
[25:51.090 --> 25:52.470]  So we'll see how that goes.
[25:53.090 --> 25:53.130]  Yeah.
[25:53.290 --> 25:53.410]  Interesting.
[25:53.670 --> 25:57.110]  I love when people want to be erased and it's just not that easy.
[25:57.110 --> 26:02.610]  You know, people, they post their entire life story someplace, they do something stupid and they make a record of it on, on the internet.
[26:02.830 --> 26:03.950]  And, uh, then they say, you know what?
[26:03.950 --> 26:04.490]  I've moved on.
[26:04.570 --> 26:07.630]  I want to, uh, not have this follow me around anymore.
[26:07.890 --> 26:10.130]  And they can't, they can't figure out how to do it.
[26:10.150 --> 26:14.170]  This was even weirder just because, you know, it was, it was sort of a non trace of her to begin with.
[26:14.250 --> 26:18.490]  And my, my response was sort of like, why don't you just build yourself up more of a web presence that matters?
[26:18.490 --> 26:20.550]  Because nobody reads past the first page of results anyway.
[26:20.550 --> 26:27.930]  So, you know, that's true when you, when you Google something and they say, you know, this is page one of, uh, 110,000, who goes to a 90,000?
[26:28.130 --> 26:29.710]  I mean, who, you can't even get there.
[26:29.810 --> 26:30.130]  I don't think.
[26:30.210 --> 26:30.970]  How do you get there quickly?
[26:31.030 --> 26:31.590]  It's impossible.
[26:31.910 --> 26:32.510]  It's useless.
[26:33.410 --> 26:33.770]  Go ahead.
[26:33.930 --> 26:38.930]  If I decide to, uh, at some point in the future, become a lawyer for the government, you can edit me out of the past year's worth of shows, right?
[26:39.210 --> 26:40.450]  People have requested.
[26:40.730 --> 26:44.530]  They, we've, we've gotten calls from people saying, you know, I called your show a few years ago.
[26:44.650 --> 26:45.430]  Could you please erase me?
[26:45.790 --> 26:48.710]  I don't want to be associated with you people and things like that.
[26:50.550 --> 26:52.470]  Okay, here's another letter from, uh, from someone.
[26:52.590 --> 27:02.870]  I've just listened to your .gov of the week from last week, March 4th, where you mentioned Barney's website, www.barney.gov, the president's old dog or the old president's dog.
[27:03.030 --> 27:04.870]  He's, he's, uh, he's still around.
[27:05.010 --> 27:05.490]  He's still kicking.
[27:05.790 --> 27:07.010]  Hopefully he's kicking George W.
[27:07.130 --> 27:07.210]  Bush.
[27:07.450 --> 27:10.070]  Uh, and, um, you, um, read one of the questions.
[27:10.430 --> 27:15.550]  I was wondering if you can help me with my maths homework from, uh, Morgan, eight years old of England.
[27:15.650 --> 27:19.630]  You then criticized Morgan's use of English by claiming that she needs help with her English as well.
[27:20.490 --> 27:22.570]  Uh, you're obviously not aware that in the good old U.S.
[27:22.610 --> 27:24.890]  of A, the shortened version of mathematics is math.
[27:25.270 --> 27:30.470]  However, in the rest of the English-speaking world, mathematics is shortened to maths, which is very hard to say.
[27:30.750 --> 27:32.350]  What, what about, uh, in Canada, Render, man?
[27:32.710 --> 27:34.430]  It's just, it's just math.
[27:34.550 --> 27:35.550]  They don't do math up there.
[27:35.690 --> 27:38.210]  So, so it's not in the entire rest of the English-speaking world.
[27:38.710 --> 27:50.490]  Well, to us in the U.K., hearing Americans talking about math is really strange, but we are other anomalies that make U.S., U.S., uh, English different than international English.
[27:50.710 --> 27:53.690]  Uh, some examples, um, it's a quarter to eight.
[27:54.670 --> 27:57.310]  And, uh, that's, um, that's international English, I believe.
[27:57.490 --> 27:57.830]  And U.S.
[27:57.970 --> 27:58.850]  English, it's 745.
[27:59.190 --> 28:00.570]  You know, it works both ways for us.
[28:00.990 --> 28:02.750]  Uh, how about 2009?
[28:04.130 --> 28:06.830]  Um, and, um, U.S.
[28:06.890 --> 28:07.790]  English is 2009.
[28:08.410 --> 28:09.190]  Does that make sense?
[28:09.190 --> 28:09.990]  Is that so?
[28:10.150 --> 28:11.670]  No, those aren't the best examples.
[28:11.730 --> 28:12.470]  Yeah, and that's one more.
[28:12.670 --> 28:14.450]  Uh, see you in a fortnight is international.
[28:14.690 --> 28:16.710]  See you in two weeks is, um, American.
[28:16.890 --> 28:19.870]  This is maybe international from, like, 1909 or something like that.
[28:19.870 --> 28:19.910]  Yeah.
[28:19.910 --> 28:21.790]  You know, speaking of fortnights, though, uh, this is one.
[28:21.910 --> 28:23.710]  Maybe, maybe this listener or other ones can, can help me out.
[28:23.790 --> 28:25.190]  You ever hear the phrase Wednesday week?
[28:25.790 --> 28:26.950]  That, that means, you've heard it, Rob.
[28:27.050 --> 28:27.610]  Yes, I've heard it.
[28:27.710 --> 28:29.570]  It, it means, uh, a week from...
[28:29.570 --> 28:30.370]  A week from Wednesday.
[28:30.450 --> 28:30.710]  From Wednesday.
[28:31.230 --> 28:32.930]  What would it mean if we said it today, Wednesday week?
[28:32.990 --> 28:34.670]  Would that mean next week or the week after next week?
[28:34.910 --> 28:35.630]  I'm not sure.
[28:36.010 --> 28:37.130]  You're supposed to say it on Monday.
[28:37.290 --> 28:38.430]  You say, I'll see you Wednesday week.
[28:38.430 --> 28:39.990]  It means not this Wednesday, but the one after.
[28:40.210 --> 28:41.390]  Thing is, here's my question.
[28:41.510 --> 28:43.070]  I've only heard that phrase.
[28:43.070 --> 28:45.710]  I've never heard anybody ever say Tuesday week or Thursday week.
[28:45.790 --> 28:46.810]  It's always Wednesday week.
[28:47.010 --> 28:53.510]  So does that phrase only apply to Wednesday or can you put any day and then follow it by week to mean a week from It sort of flows.
[28:53.630 --> 28:54.750]  It's an, it's alliterative.
[28:54.890 --> 28:55.870]  It's, you know, W and W.
[28:56.190 --> 29:04.670]  I guess maybe that's why people say that more often, but, uh, and while I'm at it, this listener is continuing, um, herb begins with an H and is pronounced herb, not herb.
[29:04.670 --> 29:09.190]  Uh, solder has an L in it and it's pronounced solder, not solder.
[29:09.970 --> 29:11.030]  Well, not around here, buddy.
[29:12.230 --> 29:14.930]  There are lots of grammatical differences, many of which are listed in Wikipedia.
[29:14.930 --> 29:17.330]  Just look up American and British English differences.
[29:17.510 --> 29:18.390]  Makes fascinating reading.
[29:18.570 --> 29:23.230]  So please, Emmanuel, before you criticize an eight-year-old English girl on her use of the English language, remember who invented the language?
[29:23.770 --> 29:26.070]  Yours in good humor, Stepar from Northern Ireland.
[29:26.390 --> 29:26.810]  And you know what?
[29:27.090 --> 29:27.550]  The Normans?
[29:27.570 --> 29:28.910]  The Normans invented the language?
[29:28.910 --> 29:30.130]  Well, let's not get into that.
[29:30.250 --> 29:31.750]  We don't want a whole bunch of crazy Normans coming.
[29:32.430 --> 29:34.390]  Uh, but yes, you're right.
[29:34.510 --> 29:36.950]  I should not be criticizing, um, someone for saying math.
[29:37.010 --> 29:49.650]  What I will criticize this eight-year-old girl from, um, uh, from, uh, England from doing, for doing is, uh, asking a dog for help with her math homework, uh, an American dog, an American dog whose owner is George W.
[29:49.810 --> 29:50.050]  Bush.
[29:50.290 --> 29:51.270]  I mean, come on.
[29:51.370 --> 29:51.570]  How?
[29:52.430 --> 29:53.650]  Seriously, what's wrong with you?
[29:54.010 --> 29:55.990]  You really think you're going to get the right answer that way?
[29:56.310 --> 29:56.950]  No, no way.
[29:57.230 --> 29:59.510]  Okay, uh, with that, let's go into this week's feature.
[30:06.570 --> 30:20.310]  Yes, it's another edition of .gov of the week, where we venture out and find a .gov site, which has something interesting or, um, revealing or just unusual, something you might not expect from a government website.
[30:31.450 --> 30:42.050]  Yeah, I looked up, uh, Barney on, uh, Wikipedia and, and it says for the link for Barney.gov, the one we did last week, that the Obama administration took it down on Inauguration Day.
[30:42.250 --> 30:47.010]  And in fact, they, last week when we went to it, it didn't go to Barney.gov, it went to some kind of archive site.
[30:47.130 --> 30:49.410]  But today, I tried to get to it and I couldn't get to it at all.
[30:49.570 --> 30:50.550]  I couldn't get to it at all.
[30:50.890 --> 30:56.550]  And I'm wondering if maybe we, uh, focused a little bit too much attention on it last week and now there's no more Barney.gov.
[30:56.630 --> 30:57.330]  Mike, do you know something about this?
[30:57.350 --> 30:58.450]  Yeah, that's last week's site.
[30:58.490 --> 30:59.510]  What's this week's site?
[30:59.690 --> 31:00.590]  I'm getting to it.
[31:00.650 --> 31:01.570]  I want to know about this week.
[31:01.730 --> 31:01.990]  Keep your pants on.
[31:07.110 --> 31:11.750]  This actually comes from Josh, uh, who writes in and, and suggested this site to us.
[31:11.810 --> 31:14.210]  I'm not sure if you guys are still doing the .gov website feature.
[31:14.410 --> 31:15.230]  I think we are.
[31:15.630 --> 31:18.390]  But I found this strange page on a .gov site.
[31:18.470 --> 31:19.230]  It's actually just a page.
[31:19.350 --> 31:20.150]  Usually we do a whole site.
[31:20.290 --> 31:21.370]  This week, we're going to do it quickly.
[31:21.530 --> 31:22.350]  It's only a page.
[31:22.590 --> 31:25.790]  This is a page on FEMA.gov.
[31:26.010 --> 31:27.530]  Who wants to tell us what FEMA stands for?
[31:28.150 --> 31:30.590]  The Federal Emergency Management Agency.
[31:30.710 --> 31:31.190]  That's correct.
[31:31.550 --> 31:36.110]  They're the people in charge of making disasters even worse, such as Katrina and things like that.
[31:36.430 --> 31:38.870]  Uh, and they had a page about Y2K.
[31:39.270 --> 31:44.990]  Actually, it was a, a post Y2K page, uh, called Y2K for Kids.
[31:45.770 --> 31:50.590]  And what I'm going to read here is just a, uh, their little speech to kids about what Y2K was all about.
[31:50.750 --> 31:55.730]  I have no idea, uh, I know, Bernie, you, you mentioned this, uh, what this creature is at the bottom of the page.
[31:55.830 --> 31:56.150]  You see this?
[31:56.190 --> 32:00.390]  It looks like sort of an insect of some sort with a question mark over, over the face.
[32:00.410 --> 32:02.690]  I guess it just, it means the unknown or something.
[32:02.690 --> 32:04.090]  It's just very bizarre.
[32:04.090 --> 32:05.270]  I have no idea what it is.
[32:05.550 --> 32:06.650]  You see, people should go there.
[32:06.830 --> 32:07.850]  You should mention the URL.
[32:07.910 --> 32:12.450]  Yes, it's FEMA.gov slash kids slash Y2K dot htm.
[32:12.870 --> 32:20.690]  Now the letters Y and K separated by the number two make a very interesting word, made a very interesting word just before the year 2000.
[32:21.290 --> 32:27.170]  Y2K was really a shorthand term with a potentially scary meaning back in 1998 and 1999.
[32:27.770 --> 32:31.870]  Y2K is an abbreviation for the year 2000.
[32:32.850 --> 32:41.190]  It was most often used when talking about potential computer problems that were anticipated with the world moving into the 21st century.
[32:41.190 --> 32:55.090]  Back in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, when computers were first built, the designers of the programs that made the computers run only used two numbers instead of four to indicate the year.
[32:55.930 --> 32:59.690]  Actually, I know a few programmers did that in the 1990s, so I had that decade in as well.
[33:00.110 --> 33:01.430]  In fact, I know people are doing it today.
[33:01.650 --> 33:04.330]  For example, 1998 was 98.
[33:04.910 --> 33:06.810]  This was done as a cost saving measure.
[33:07.030 --> 33:11.150]  In the 1990s, many computer programmers continued using the two numbers instead of four.
[33:11.230 --> 33:11.790]  Ah, they do say it.
[33:12.010 --> 33:29.090]  As we move toward the year 2000, it was realized that a massive computer problem could occur because at computer processors and software... I'm sorry, because all computer processors and software using the two-digit feature were going to stop moving forward and revert back to 1900 instead of to 2000.
[33:29.350 --> 33:39.530]  Fears were that all computer operated equipment manufactured with a computer processor, like televisions and microwave ovens, would fail because the computer memory would not recognize the date 00.
[33:40.570 --> 33:52.070]  Some really negative people were frightening folks with comments about the world going dark at midnight on January 1st, 2000, since electrical systems were operated by computers.
[33:52.550 --> 34:02.370]  Some were saying that the world would become chaotic and that money in the stock market would disappear since those monies had not been around in 1900, leaving investors penniless.
[34:02.830 --> 34:04.790]  Instead, they should have predicted George W.
[34:04.930 --> 34:05.070]  Bush.
[34:05.810 --> 34:08.650]  I'm really... I'm being nasty to him today, but I just feel like it.
[34:09.050 --> 34:17.250]  Well, here we are several years after Y2K, and we now know that at midnight January 1st, 2000, very little changed.
[34:17.690 --> 34:22.670]  Many computer companies spent the last few years of the 20th century fixing the glitch that panicked the world.
[34:22.850 --> 34:27.730]  An interesting side effect from all of this effort came as a large increase in computer services companies.
[34:28.730 --> 34:36.830]  These companies moved from being small businesses and starting to repair a potentially frightening computer problem to the bright technological future we see ahead of us.
[34:37.530 --> 34:43.470]  Some people feel that the integrated technology companies in India started with this one computer problem being addressed.
[34:43.710 --> 34:51.950]  Many feel that the New York Stock Exchange was able to reassemble its systems shortly after the 9-11 disaster because of the related Y2K repair work they had done.
[34:52.350 --> 34:56.190]  January 1st, 2000 marked a very important date in the history of the world.
[34:56.450 --> 35:05.230]  It moved into the 21st century with technology designed to make our lives easier and let us work smarter, all because of Y2K.
[35:06.690 --> 35:09.470]  And that's our .gov site of the week.
[35:09.710 --> 35:14.610]  Yes, fema.gov slash kids slash y2k dot htm.
[35:14.750 --> 35:19.850]  And I'm sure you can find all kinds of other things about Y2K on that site, such as a statement by the president.
[35:19.990 --> 35:20.950]  What is FEMA doing?
[35:21.370 --> 35:24.930]  And how will Y2K affect you?
[35:25.230 --> 35:26.690]  Well, not much anymore, I suppose.
[35:27.090 --> 35:32.610]  If you have a .gov of the week to suggest to us, write to us, oth at 2600.com.
[35:37.620 --> 35:41.720]  I don't know, you think it was a little too perky, their words to children?
[35:42.040 --> 35:51.640]  We have to realize that this was almost 10 years ago by this point, and the kids today do not have first-hand memories of the nothing that happened at Y2K.
[35:51.980 --> 35:52.180]  Mm-hmm.
[35:52.740 --> 35:54.680]  Yeah, but what about the really negative people?
[35:54.880 --> 35:57.460]  Do you think that was a fair assessment, what FEMA is saying?
[35:57.700 --> 35:59.780]  It's what FEMA was saying in 1999.
[35:59.780 --> 36:01.100]  Are they rewriting history?
[36:01.540 --> 36:06.180]  I mean, we had a countdown, a Y2K countdown to Doom was a feature on this program.
[36:06.600 --> 36:10.620]  And that might sound like it was negative, but actually we had a lot of fun with it.
[36:11.020 --> 36:14.960]  And I think, you know, most of us predicted that not much was going to happen.
[36:15.060 --> 36:16.060]  That's sort of what happened.
[36:16.420 --> 36:22.260]  It was interesting that they pointed out how many computer service companies popped up.
[36:23.180 --> 36:30.180]  The one thing I remember is the number of computer service companies that popped up to fix the glitches from the first batch of computer service companies.
[36:30.340 --> 36:30.520]  Right.
[36:30.680 --> 36:42.360]  Because I spent a good year, you know, pulling out these stupid Y2K compatibility cards and unloading really crappy software off of PCs that people loaded on there out of fear that they didn't need.
[36:43.220 --> 36:43.700]  Absolutely.
[36:43.800 --> 36:43.980]  Gus?
[36:44.120 --> 36:53.280]  I was waiting for them to say that the Y2K bug basically invented the internet when they were like, oh yeah, these companies started up, you know, like Apple to respond to the Y2K problem.
[36:53.280 --> 36:54.760]  Well, give it another 50 years.
[36:54.820 --> 36:55.940]  I'm sure they can get away with that.
[36:56.140 --> 36:59.500]  I think we should have let Wikipedia handle educating our kids about the Y2K bug.
[36:59.620 --> 37:00.100]  That's my case.
[37:01.980 --> 37:02.420]  Okay.
[37:02.420 --> 37:05.240]  Updates on some news that's been going on.
[37:05.340 --> 37:11.500]  I remember the, I keep wanting to say Michael Palin, the Sarah Palin hacker, quote unquote hacker.
[37:11.820 --> 37:16.740]  A University of Tennessee student accused of illegally breaking into the email account of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin.
[37:17.180 --> 37:20.900]  Well, he's been hit with three new felony charges in connection with the case.
[37:21.280 --> 37:28.620]  David Colonel on Monday pleaded not guilty to the new charges, which include fraud, unlawful electronic transmission of material outside Tennessee.
[37:29.060 --> 37:30.640]  I guess I'm guilty of that every day.
[37:30.920 --> 37:34.700]  And attempts to conceal records to impede an FBI investigation.
[37:35.060 --> 37:39.340]  Previously, he was charged with a single felony count of unauthorized access of a protected computer.
[37:39.440 --> 37:40.720]  Looks like they really want to nail him.
[37:41.160 --> 37:48.680]  The new counts come as defense attorneys not involved in the case have roundly criticized the soundness of the previous charge.
[37:48.840 --> 37:49.600]  Under U.S.
[37:49.720 --> 37:57.080]  law, unauthorized access of a protected computer should be charged as a misdemeanor, except when it's used to further a separate crime.
[37:57.180 --> 38:06.980]  Prosecutors had argued that the other crime was the unauthorized access of Palin's email account and the ensuing election of Barack Obama.
[38:07.160 --> 38:11.400]  That prompted critics to argue prosecutors were applying circular reasoning.
[38:11.800 --> 38:14.300]  In September, I mean, it really did have an effect.
[38:14.540 --> 38:16.200]  It made her look stupid in many ways.
[38:16.620 --> 38:25.720]  In September, while Palin was a Republican vice-presidential candidate, the Colonel used publicly available information to reset her Yahoo email account according to an indictment filed in the case.
[38:26.020 --> 38:36.680]  Prosecutors filed a string of breadcrumbs Colonel allegedly dropped, including the sloppy use of an anonymous proxy service and a first-person account left on hacker website 4chan.org.
[38:37.040 --> 38:39.880]  Okay, now, when did 4chan become a hacker website?
[38:40.200 --> 38:41.780]  Not Kevin, I think you know something about this.
[38:42.200 --> 38:44.100]  These are your friends over at Anonymous, right?
[38:44.100 --> 38:45.080]  I have no idea.
[38:45.100 --> 38:47.360]  Yeah, well, I mean, it's not a hacker site, is it?
[38:47.480 --> 38:48.320]  I mean...
[38:48.320 --> 38:49.660]  It's not really much of anything.
[38:50.040 --> 38:50.340]  Yeah, well...
[38:50.340 --> 38:51.260]  It's kind of an image board.
[38:51.480 --> 38:52.080]  Yeah, okay.
[38:52.400 --> 38:56.840]  But according to the register, register.co.uk, it's a hacker website.
[38:57.000 --> 38:59.720]  Anyway, he allegedly left information there.
[38:59.800 --> 39:05.060]  I guess he wasn't trying to hide it so well, and neither was Sarah Palin trying to hide her password so well.
[39:05.140 --> 39:09.140]  I think they both got caught up in not caring all that much.
[39:09.360 --> 39:15.400]  And of course, the case drew international headlines after a handful of material from Palin's account was posted on WikiLeaks.
[39:15.860 --> 39:20.180]  A trial on the case has been rescheduled for October 27th.
[39:20.240 --> 39:21.460]  My God, that's so far away.
[39:21.660 --> 39:23.380]  It had previously been slated for May.
[39:24.060 --> 39:31.780]  And this little addendum to the whole thing, Colonel is the son of state representative Mike Colonel, chairman of Tennessee's House Government Operations Committee.
[39:32.240 --> 39:33.080]  He's a Democrat.
[39:34.020 --> 39:34.300]  All right.
[39:34.640 --> 39:37.020]  Do you have something about this, Renneman?
[39:37.800 --> 39:38.080]  No?
[39:38.420 --> 39:38.640]  Not really.
[39:38.640 --> 39:40.000]  This kind of thing happened in Canada at all?
[39:40.240 --> 39:44.500]  No, there's not really as much interesting stuff going on with the politicians.
[39:44.740 --> 39:46.860]  They don't get into nearly as much trouble as they seem to down here.
[39:46.880 --> 39:52.300]  Yeah, but wasn't it a Canadian broadcaster who made Sarah Palin pick up the phone and think she was talking to the French president?
[39:52.300 --> 40:02.680]  Yeah, it was a couple of guys out of, I think it was Quebec, that phoned her up and usually they'll phone up like heads of state elsewhere or major people.
[40:02.840 --> 40:05.760]  And you know, it'll last for like 30 seconds before they catch on.
[40:05.880 --> 40:07.340]  But they had it going for like 14 minutes.
[40:07.680 --> 40:07.940]  14 minutes.
[40:08.200 --> 40:09.160]  You guys ran out of material.
[40:09.160 --> 40:13.140]  You don't have a law that says you can't call people and not tell them they're on the air.
[40:13.880 --> 40:14.740]  Not that I know of.
[40:14.760 --> 40:15.220]  Apparently not.
[40:16.220 --> 40:18.120]  So that's kind of cool.
[40:18.400 --> 40:18.860]  That's kind of cool.
[40:19.020 --> 40:19.160]  Go ahead.
[40:19.600 --> 40:21.920]  When are we going to stop hearing about Sarah Palin?
[40:22.200 --> 40:22.420]  I know.
[40:22.560 --> 40:24.380]  Now you're telling me we're going to hear about her again in October.
[40:24.580 --> 40:25.340]  I mean, this is like...
[40:25.340 --> 40:27.800]  That was the best part of the election was that she was going to go away.
[40:28.160 --> 40:28.360]  Yeah.
[40:28.560 --> 40:30.240]  Well, you know, apparently she's still angry.
[40:31.200 --> 40:35.360]  And I'm assuming that she could stop this if she wanted to.
[40:36.040 --> 40:38.240]  You guys can keep talking about her all you want.
[40:38.320 --> 40:39.360]  It's a great source of entertainment.
[40:39.460 --> 40:43.300]  Well, when I was in Canada in October, in fact, I'm not having anything to do with this.
[40:44.940 --> 40:47.560]  People would talk to me and say, you know, it's a joke, right?
[40:47.640 --> 40:48.340]  You guys are...
[40:48.340 --> 40:49.620]  It's like SNL or something.
[40:49.820 --> 40:51.060]  You're really making this up.
[40:51.200 --> 40:52.580]  It's not really happening.
[40:52.740 --> 40:53.920]  You're not going to like this person, right?
[40:54.140 --> 40:56.580]  It was kind of sad because they really look desperate.
[40:56.740 --> 40:59.560]  Like, you guys, come on, get serious here.
[41:00.740 --> 41:02.500]  But yeah, it was pretty funny.
[41:02.500 --> 41:03.380]  Okay.
[41:03.540 --> 41:05.240]  Something else that's pretty funny.
[41:05.600 --> 41:06.740]  You hear about this.
[41:07.860 --> 41:15.980]  This sports fan was watching a football game on a cruise ship that was docked.
[41:16.380 --> 41:18.500]  He was using a sling box.
[41:18.900 --> 41:21.820]  And somebody can tell us what sling box is in a moment.
[41:21.880 --> 41:36.480]  But he managed to run up a data bill of $28,067.31 by watching a game of American football, despite being aboard a docked cruise liner and having an unlimited data tariff, thanks to a technical hitch or two.
[41:36.940 --> 41:52.460]  The story comes from the Chicago Sun-Times who have managed to get AT&T to credit Wayne Burdick with most of the bill, despite his own failure to make the network understand that he should never have been able to run up international roaming charges of two cents per kilobyte without leaving the USA.
[41:53.140 --> 42:05.620]  What a sling box does, it grabs video from the user's home and streams it over the internet, in this case to a laptop over Burdick's cellular connection, which he thought was connected through a data card to AT&T's network.
[42:05.740 --> 42:12.140]  Unfortunately for Burdick, he was actually connected to the ship's onboard network, which accounts for the international roaming.
[42:12.320 --> 42:18.020]  And his data card was unable to display the repeated warnings that AT&T kept sending him over SMS.
[42:18.580 --> 42:22.260]  Less clear is why the onboard network was operational.
[42:22.600 --> 42:30.180]  Ships often offer cellular access using a microcell connected to a satellite link and billed at an international roaming rate.
[42:31.520 --> 42:35.860]  But they are supposed to be switched off when nearing port to prevent interfering with local networks.
[42:35.960 --> 42:41.880]  In fact, most ship-based GSM equipment is fitted with GPS to prevent it from being used within range of a land network.
[42:42.240 --> 42:45.860]  So the onboard network shouldn't have been in operation at all.
[42:45.860 --> 42:48.180]  Now, when he received the bill, he complained to AT&T.
[42:48.340 --> 42:55.120]  They eventually offered to reduce the bill down to $6,000, hardly comparable to the $220 he reckons as average.
[42:55.680 --> 43:00.120]  And luckily, the people over at the Sun-Times were able to argue his case.
[43:00.240 --> 43:04.640]  AT&T is credited Wayne with $27,776.66.
[43:05.540 --> 43:11.080]  And according to the register, it shouldn't have taken media involvement to fix a case like this.
[43:11.600 --> 43:15.880]  Rumbling rates like that without even leaving the country make the EU look like a haven for the international traveler.
[43:16.040 --> 43:23.400]  Perhaps, uh, once, uh, um, once this particular person known as Ms. Redding, who I don't know who it, who she is.
[43:23.520 --> 43:24.560]  Does anyone know who Ms. Redding is?
[43:24.680 --> 43:31.740]  They say, once Ms. Redding has battered EU operators for unreasonable behavior, we can ship her over the pond to sort out the septics.
[43:32.620 --> 43:35.600]  Yeah, that's something that Europeans will understand, but I don't.
[43:36.200 --> 43:37.220]  Anybody here have a sling box?
[43:37.720 --> 43:38.120]  Yep.
[43:38.320 --> 43:38.740]  You do?
[43:39.080 --> 43:39.260]  Yeah.
[43:39.420 --> 43:39.540]  Yeah.
[43:39.620 --> 43:42.660]  I don't have, don't have one, but I do something similar with a myth TV box.
[43:42.900 --> 43:43.020]  Yeah.
[43:43.400 --> 43:43.660]  So.
[43:43.880 --> 43:44.240]  Okay.
[43:44.360 --> 43:46.920]  Well, you wouldn't get billed $28,000 for using it.
[43:46.940 --> 43:47.120]  No.
[43:47.240 --> 43:47.540]  I take it.
[43:47.780 --> 43:48.600]  Bernie, how about you?
[43:49.440 --> 44:03.140]  I don't have a sling box either, but it's basically something that lets you watch your, uh, your home TV through your own home, home, uh, cable, uh, TV box or whatever kind of set-top box you have through the internet to, to your stream through your cell phone to your computer,
[44:03.320 --> 44:03.440]  whatever.
[44:04.140 --> 44:20.760]  Um, but what's interesting here is that this guy has a great lawsuit against AT&T, who apparently operates the on-ship, uh, cellular phone network, which is only supposed to be operated out to sea, far away from any, uh, terrestrial, uh, cell phone networks.
[44:21.020 --> 44:22.280]  This thing was at port.
[44:22.920 --> 44:40.460]  Clearly, if anybody walking by with their cell phone on, on the dock would have been, uh, uh, uh, liable to have run into this same problem and had their call rooted through this, routed, routed, routed through this, um, through the ship's, uh, cellular network and through a satellite and charged outrageous roaming charges.
[44:40.520 --> 44:43.140]  Wait, who, uh, who does he have the lawsuit against?
[44:43.600 --> 44:46.840]  I think he should, uh, apparently AT&T operates the shipboard network.
[44:46.980 --> 44:48.720]  Yeah, but they didn't turn it on, did they?
[44:49.440 --> 44:54.620]  Well, someone on the ship did, but they operate, they own, they own, they operate and maintain the equipment on the ship.
[44:54.880 --> 45:05.440]  Some moron on the ship turned it on or the GPS part of the system is supposed to turn it off when it's on, when it's docked in front and not getting like too close to the shore, apparently wasn't working.
[45:05.700 --> 45:13.140]  Some, some part of the system failed that AT&T should have kept from failing, whether it was human failure or system failure.
[45:13.140 --> 45:22.460]  The bottom line, it was a failure that caused this guy a lot of harm and grief and having to fight to not pay tens of thousands of dollars for watching a football game.
[45:22.640 --> 45:23.280]  It's silly.
[45:23.480 --> 45:26.900]  AT&T should have just dropped it altogether when they realized it was their fault.
[45:26.900 --> 45:33.000]  And the fact that they, uh, they didn't do that forthwith was, uh, is another reason not to use AT&T.
[45:33.180 --> 45:40.620]  Now, I only wonder how many other cases like this have, uh, happened for lesser amounts of money that have just, uh, not gotten the attention and people have been forced to pay.
[45:41.640 --> 45:42.480]  Probably quite a few.
[45:42.900 --> 45:51.040]  Uh, so yeah, I guess, uh, I guess we can, uh, protect ourselves from having this happen by simply, what, checking our, our network connection, see what we're connected to.
[45:51.260 --> 45:51.880]  How do we do that?
[45:52.200 --> 45:57.000]  Well, your cell phone, you can set your cell phone to, uh, to use your own, your carrier only.
[45:57.320 --> 46:02.880]  Um, but this guy was using one of the, uh, uh, uh, a 3G, uh, um, broadband cards.
[46:03.160 --> 46:10.680]  It's like a card that slips into a USB, usually either USB or a PCMCA slot in your laptop, but it's a cell phone, but it doesn't do any voice.
[46:10.840 --> 46:11.560]  It's just their data.
[46:12.040 --> 46:21.140]  Uh, but you can, you can set that thing in the, in its, in its configuration to do, to stick to only AT&T or any, whatever carrier you're on, Sprint or whatever.
[46:21.540 --> 46:25.340]  But apparently, this guy can figure, had it just configured to whatever he can grab.
[46:25.480 --> 46:26.480]  But it's really not his fault.
[46:27.140 --> 46:33.640]  Um, it should have grabbed AT&T's network because he was in AT&T's, uh, cellular network range.
[46:34.160 --> 46:52.980]  Unfortunately, it, it, it glommed onto his card, his AT&T network card glommed onto the, the, the, the cruise ship's, uh, microcell, um, GSM network, which is also operated by AT&T, and it runs through an InMarset satellite and charges you like many, many dollars per minute.
[46:53.220 --> 46:56.960]  So it's AT&T's fault and they should have just dropped this whole thing.
[46:57.120 --> 47:02.200]  And I'm sure all the bad publicity AT&T is getting from this is, uh, is not in their best interest.
[47:02.200 --> 47:02.900]  All right.
[47:02.980 --> 47:05.600]  Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[47:05.700 --> 47:07.100]  We'd like to hear from our listeners.
[47:07.140 --> 47:10.360]  Any questions, comments, stories, things like that.
[47:10.500 --> 47:12.320]  We have a few minutes left to take phone calls.
[47:12.680 --> 47:13.500]  Here's another letter.
[47:13.700 --> 47:14.700]  I'll keep this short.
[47:14.800 --> 47:15.600]  This letter writer promises.
[47:15.820 --> 47:19.500]  This is my first email to off the hook and just wanted to say, I love the show.
[47:19.620 --> 47:21.640]  I've been listening for around the last three years.
[47:21.860 --> 47:26.260]  I was wondering if you or anyone else on the show have used the magic jack.
[47:26.560 --> 47:30.260]  There are tons of negative blogs and vlogs all over the internet about it.
[47:30.480 --> 47:38.320]  It looks like a good concept, but for around $20 a year, it seems like there would be a lot of other things going on that most people wouldn't be aware of, at least not at first.
[47:38.520 --> 47:46.220]  I've read articles stating that it lets all kinds of adware and malware onto your computer as well as having all the calls made and received logged and then sold.
[47:46.800 --> 47:48.880]  I know that privacy is dead and to get over it, right?
[47:49.080 --> 47:58.720]  Anyway, I'd just like to hear you say a few things about it, even if it's just to hear you poke a little fun at the people that have or will buy into this device for thinking that they can get so much without paying a lot.
[47:58.860 --> 47:59.840]  Signed, vocalist.
[48:00.440 --> 48:04.860]  Bernie, do you have any advice or comments about what the whole magic jack thing is all about?
[48:05.420 --> 48:10.700]  Well, despite how the TV advertisements seem, this really isn't a scam.
[48:10.700 --> 48:11.660]  The thing does work.
[48:11.800 --> 48:14.160]  I have one and several friends of mine have one of these things too.
[48:14.300 --> 48:15.040]  What exactly is it?
[48:15.100 --> 48:15.700]  What does it do?
[48:15.880 --> 48:18.280]  It looks like a little USB
[48:21.300 --> 48:22.100]  memory module.
[48:22.320 --> 48:27.700]  You just plug it into a USB jack and it's about the size of a pack of matches.
[48:28.040 --> 48:34.100]  And it's got an RJ11 jack in it as well that you plug a regular POTS, you know, plain old telephone system.
[48:34.240 --> 48:41.860]  You just plug a regular telephone into it and then you plug it into your USB jack on your Windows or Mac OS computer.
[48:42.020 --> 48:49.820]  And then it loads a bunch of software on your computer that then runs voice over IP phone calls through the internet.
[48:49.960 --> 48:52.320]  You have to have a broad data internet connection connected to your computer.
[48:52.960 --> 48:55.740]  And you pay 30 or 40 bucks for this device.
[48:56.200 --> 48:59.880]  And you get to make all the long distance calls to domestic U.S.
[48:59.920 --> 49:04.760]  calls for a whole year for that, you know, 30, 40 bucks, which is not a bad deal.
[49:04.980 --> 49:15.880]  You also get voicemail with it, which if you get a voicemail message, it'll forward you the voicemail message as an audio attachment if you want, which is kind of cool in and of itself.
[49:16.600 --> 49:22.180]  I don't know how sound the business model is, but they've been in operation for a good three years or so, and they're still around.
[49:23.040 --> 49:27.920]  And after the year is up, you can buy a whole other years of long distance service for 20 bucks.
[49:28.200 --> 49:33.720]  My problem with it is that it's a real pain in the neck to get it to work with Linux.
[49:33.880 --> 49:35.540]  You can, but you've got to go through all these hacks.
[49:35.660 --> 49:37.240]  You can go online and search for those.
[49:37.880 --> 49:40.600]  Um, and my problem is it doesn't run by itself.
[49:40.720 --> 49:42.320]  You have to, it has to load equipment.
[49:42.500 --> 49:44.620]  It has to load software onto your computer.
[49:44.820 --> 49:54.800]  It doesn't, it doesn't reside locally on the USB device, which it could using this new three, um, protocol, but it's not a bad deal.
[49:55.120 --> 50:04.980]  Um, I wouldn't rely on it as my only, uh, phone service, but, uh, you know, if you want unlimited, uh, domestic phone service for 30 or 40 bucks for a whole year, it's not too bad.
[50:04.980 --> 50:17.480]  I wouldn't rely on anything other than a good old fashioned phone line for, uh, for phone service, because everything else requires something else that, you know, power or connectivity or anything from VoIP to, to cable.
[50:17.980 --> 50:21.860]  Uh, I, not saying I wouldn't use it, but I'd like to have a backup.
[50:22.200 --> 50:25.260]  The backup should always be plain old telephone service, right now, Kevin?
[50:25.540 --> 50:26.760]  Well, you could always use a cannon string.
[50:27.100 --> 50:28.820]  Uh, well, that's, that's the third backup.
[50:29.180 --> 50:29.560]  All right.
[50:29.620 --> 50:30.780]  212-209-2900.
[50:30.940 --> 50:31.500]  Let's take a phone call.
[50:31.580 --> 50:31.940]  Good evening.
[50:32.340 --> 50:33.160]  You're on off the hook.
[50:33.900 --> 50:34.300]  Yes.
[50:34.680 --> 50:34.980]  Speak up.
[50:35.140 --> 50:35.840]  212-209-2900.
[50:35.900 --> 50:37.080]  Yes, uh, turn me down, too.
[50:37.400 --> 50:37.680]  Okay.
[50:38.020 --> 50:38.300]  Thank you.
[50:39.320 --> 50:41.200]  But, but continue talking after you turn me down.
[50:41.200 --> 50:41.300]  Oh, yes.
[50:41.460 --> 50:41.940]  Here I am.
[50:42.020 --> 50:42.380]  All right.
[50:42.580 --> 50:58.560]  I just wanted to ask you, uh, Emmanuel, if you could, uh, tell us what you thought of the, uh, post, the New York Post cartoon of the, um, monkey being shot by the police.
[50:58.560 --> 50:58.860]  Okay.
[50:58.980 --> 51:02.180]  Well, you know, I, I have talked about this on my other show, Off the Wall.
[51:02.360 --> 51:04.760]  It's not really something that has anything to do with technology.
[51:05.220 --> 51:10.660]  So we're going to kind of like avoid the half hour debate as to what it means, but thanks for calling.
[51:10.840 --> 51:16.380]  You know, I, I do talk about this on the other show, Off the Wall, www.2600.com slash Off the Wall.
[51:16.500 --> 51:19.860]  You can listen to your heart's content about, uh, me pontificating various other things.
[51:20.380 --> 51:20.760]  Uh, good evening.
[51:20.900 --> 51:21.500]  You're Aaron, Off the Hook.
[51:22.140 --> 51:22.900]  Oh, hi.
[51:23.120 --> 51:23.320]  Hi.
[51:23.780 --> 51:30.680]  Um, do you discuss any issues regarding internet or television, cable stuff, or just phones?
[51:31.140 --> 51:32.560]  Oh, we talk about all kinds of things.
[51:32.760 --> 51:37.520]  Uh, internet, cable stuff, phones, computers, privacy, all kinds of things.
[51:37.980 --> 51:38.480]  Oh, good.
[51:38.640 --> 51:38.920]  Okay.
[51:39.160 --> 51:40.520]  Um, I have a question then.
[51:40.700 --> 51:45.380]  Um, I'm new, I have a new apartment and I'm setting up... No furniture at all in it, huh?
[51:46.000 --> 51:46.880]  Uh... What's that?
[51:46.940 --> 51:47.680]  Well, you're echoing.
[51:47.840 --> 51:49.440]  I just, it sounds like you're in an empty room.
[51:49.920 --> 51:51.720]  Yeah, I don't have my furniture yet.
[51:51.900 --> 51:52.160]  Okay.
[51:52.160 --> 51:53.920]  Well, that explains the sound.
[51:54.160 --> 51:55.420]  Uh, but what's your question?
[51:55.940 --> 52:02.860]  Yeah, um, I'm getting this triple play where I get the phone, land phone, the internet, and the, uh... Yes, cable vision.
[52:03.560 --> 52:06.800]  Now, because I was checking into Verizon Fios.
[52:07.000 --> 52:07.540]  Oh, okay.
[52:07.780 --> 52:09.500]  Yes, Verizon Fios has a similar deal.
[52:10.360 --> 52:12.360]  Um, and... Go ahead.
[52:12.420 --> 52:12.840]  What's your question?
[52:13.120 --> 52:14.500]  Is cable vision better?
[52:14.820 --> 52:15.780]  You know, the Time Warner?
[52:16.500 --> 52:22.380]  Uh, well, no, not... Uh, cable vision is much better than Time Warner, in my opinion, only because I've dealt with both of them.
[52:22.740 --> 52:26.080]  And boy, you could not meet a bunch of sorrier people than the ones that... No, never mind.
[52:26.400 --> 52:28.620]  I don't go too crazy about Time Warner, but boy.
[52:29.080 --> 52:30.440]  Uh, cable vision seems to work.
[52:30.500 --> 52:32.060]  They have a better, uh, channel selection.
[52:32.060 --> 52:37.180]  You can actually get BBC World on there and, and Euronews and things like that, uh, for the, for the television.
[52:37.640 --> 52:40.720]  Uh, the three-for-one deal actually does seem to work.
[52:40.760 --> 52:51.960]  You get phone, you get connectivity, you get, uh, a lot of channels and, uh, you're not paying a whole lot, uh, compared to what you, you, you would be paying if you, uh, got all three of those services separately.
[52:52.180 --> 52:53.800]  So, yeah, you know, it's a, it's a decent deal.
[52:53.920 --> 52:56.920]  I'm, I'm not sure what happens after a year because that's how long the deal is good for.
[52:57.140 --> 53:04.720]  I would look into the Fios as well, though, because, uh, they have a good channel selection and, um, and, and better connectivity, but it's, it's only available in certain areas.
[53:05.720 --> 53:09.400]  It's available where I am, but is cable vision available in Manhattan?
[53:09.880 --> 53:10.720]  Uh, no, it's not.
[53:10.880 --> 53:12.120]  You're stuck with Time Warner, unfortunately.
[53:12.120 --> 53:15.420]  Oh, so it's Time Warner or the Verizon Fios?
[53:15.540 --> 53:16.380]  Those are my choices?
[53:16.660 --> 53:17.820]  Uh, looks that way, yeah.
[53:18.320 --> 53:18.660]  All right.
[53:18.820 --> 53:23.080]  And also, I have an issue with the, I have Verizon cell phone.
[53:23.300 --> 53:23.580]  Okay.
[53:24.380 --> 53:33.800]  And, um, I, um, I, a couple of times since I've had the contract, I changed my, I either upgraded or downgraded.
[53:34.000 --> 53:34.400]  Uh-huh.
[53:34.500 --> 53:37.960]  And I asked if there would be a fee for that, and I was told no.
[53:38.220 --> 53:38.900]  And there was a fee?
[53:38.900 --> 53:48.220]  Well, what they do is they, I noticed my bills were kind of high, and it turns out they do something where they call it a month in advance.
[53:48.240 --> 53:50.660]  You're paying a month in advance.
[53:50.820 --> 53:51.080]  Uh-huh.
[53:51.360 --> 54:02.220]  You never really get the money back, because, um, if you change it a few times, they only, um, they only credit you at the end of your contract, I think, for one of those changes.
[54:02.220 --> 54:06.800]  So you're basically paying every time you change your, your service.
[54:07.540 --> 54:09.140]  I wasn't, I wasn't aware of that.
[54:09.280 --> 54:12.480]  Uh, and I'm, I'm not sure if they give you something back at the end.
[54:12.640 --> 54:15.920]  You might get some kind of refund if you cancel your service completely.
[54:16.420 --> 54:21.160]  Um, not really sure, but, uh, it's an interesting thing to, uh, to look into some more.
[54:21.520 --> 54:25.220]  You think I should get, like, try to write to somebody at the company?
[54:25.460 --> 54:29.180]  Because they promised me I wasn't going to be charged, and I got double billed.
[54:29.180 --> 54:29.640]  Yeah, definitely.
[54:29.860 --> 54:38.800]  Well, definitely call them, and if that doesn't work, write to them, and say you're going to write to, uh, various, um, um, authoritative bodies above them, whether it be the FCC or the Public Service Commission.
[54:39.040 --> 54:42.400]  They hate that, and they, they'll, they'll, uh, try and make you happy.
[54:42.460 --> 54:49.060]  In fact, if you call your cable company and say you want to cancel service because they're too expensive, they will lower your rate, and that is true.
[54:49.220 --> 54:49.580]  Try it.
[54:49.660 --> 54:50.080]  You'll see.
[54:50.480 --> 54:51.560]  Um, listen, we're going to move on.
[54:51.660 --> 54:53.460]  Thanks, and good luck with your, your new apartment there.
[54:53.480 --> 54:56.360]  I hope you get some furniture and, uh, or less echoey.
[54:56.420 --> 54:57.420]  Let's take one more phone call.
[54:58.360 --> 54:58.940]  Good evening.
[54:59.140 --> 54:59.900]  You're on Off the Hook.
[55:00.140 --> 55:00.780]  Oh, cool.
[55:01.160 --> 55:01.700]  What's on your mind?
[55:01.840 --> 55:04.440]  I've been listening for so many years, I can't even remember when.
[55:04.960 --> 55:05.540]  None of us can.
[55:05.540 --> 55:09.680]  All the way back to when you were running, uh, busy signals from around the world.
[55:09.880 --> 55:10.480]  Oh, we did that?
[55:10.600 --> 55:10.840]  Wow.
[55:11.080 --> 55:12.260]  Yeah, you did that a long time ago.
[55:12.340 --> 55:13.940]  That's when I first got hooked on Off the Hook.
[55:14.300 --> 55:15.900]  You know, I'm just curious about something.
[55:16.000 --> 55:16.300]  Yeah, go ahead.
[55:16.340 --> 55:22.580]  I take the bus down to Washington occasionally, and they have that, um, you know, they have wireless internet on there.
[55:22.580 --> 55:32.280]  What's the technology that'll, that can enable them to, um, get connectivity to the net while they're moving down the highway?
[55:32.320 --> 55:34.020]  Okay, I'm going to let Renderman answer that question.
[55:34.180 --> 55:36.520]  That will be the last word for tonight, and you have 30 seconds.
[55:36.940 --> 55:43.300]  Um, can't speak to the exact bus you're talking about, but I know, uh... There's a company actually that's, uh, that's known for this.
[55:43.320 --> 55:52.860]  I know various buses that I've that I've taken, it's basically a wireless access point bridge to, uh, like an EVDO or, uh, like, cell card, just your standard, you know, PCMCIA one.
[55:53.060 --> 55:53.980]  And how do they hand off?
[55:54.140 --> 55:54.680]  How are they connected?
[55:55.080 --> 55:59.160]  Uh, it's basically just, you know, wire from one into, like, a router with the EVDO card in the other.
[55:59.320 --> 56:01.060]  But what's it, what's it communicating with along the way?
[56:01.140 --> 56:01.600]  Cell towers?
[56:01.980 --> 56:03.880]  Yeah, it's just on the, the cell data network.
[56:04.060 --> 56:04.060]  Interesting.
[56:04.840 --> 56:05.080]  Okay.
[56:05.700 --> 56:07.180]  Uh, today is, uh, not Kevin, you had something?
[56:07.360 --> 56:08.540]  Could you project your face on?
[56:08.840 --> 56:09.960]  Uh, yeah, project your face onto that.
[56:10.100 --> 56:12.740]  Uh, yeah, there's been a lot of very confused people on the bus trips I've been on.
[56:13.140 --> 56:13.780]  Oh, boy.
[56:14.380 --> 56:14.760]  All right.
[56:14.820 --> 56:16.700]  Well, now, now we have the answer to that little mystery.
[56:17.220 --> 56:19.320]  Uh, today is an anniversary, or yesterday actually is an anniversary.
[56:19.440 --> 56:19.700]  Rob T.
[56:19.800 --> 56:20.660]  Firefly, what was the anniversary?
[56:21.060 --> 56:21.440]  Yes, indeed.
[56:21.740 --> 56:25.200]  Uh, yesterday was the 133rd anniversary of the very first telephone call.
[56:25.480 --> 56:26.440]  How about that?
[56:26.640 --> 56:29.320]  Uh, according, if you believe that Alexander Graham Bell was responsible for that.
[56:29.460 --> 56:34.620]  He's, uh, he made that phone call to Watson, uh, on March 10th in, uh, the year, what, 18?
[56:35.360 --> 56:35.720]  1876.
[56:36.220 --> 56:36.580]  1876.
[56:36.940 --> 56:51.980]  And with that spirit, we're going to close tonight with something from, uh, I think back in 1913, uh, rather, uh, classic piece for those of you who were around back then from, uh, Joe Hyman, or Heyman, not really sure, called Cohen at the Telephone.
[56:52.340 --> 56:53.360]  We'll see you next week.
[56:53.520 --> 56:54.940]  OTH at 2600.com.
[56:55.060 --> 56:55.280]  Good night.
[56:55.280 --> 57:00.500]  A description of the efforts of Mr. Cohen to use the telephone for the first time.
[57:01.080 --> 57:05.820]  Mr. Cohen is trying to call up the manager of a certain bank who happens to be his landlord.
[57:06.220 --> 57:08.020]  The conversation is as follows.
[57:08.620 --> 57:09.840]  Hello, are you there?
[57:10.160 --> 57:10.500]  Hello.
[57:11.200 --> 57:11.800]  Hello, what?
[57:12.020 --> 57:13.340]  What number do I want?
[57:13.680 --> 57:15.200]  Well, what numbers have you got?
[57:15.740 --> 57:17.080]  Excuse me, my fault.
[57:17.560 --> 57:20.160]  I want Sentinel 248, please.
[57:20.460 --> 57:21.360]  Yes, that's right.
[57:22.160 --> 57:22.720]  248.
[57:23.280 --> 57:24.480]  I say, miss.
[57:24.940 --> 57:29.400]  Am I supposed to keep on saying are you there and hello until you come back again?
[57:29.760 --> 57:30.880]  Well, don't be long.
[57:31.200 --> 57:32.360]  Hello, are you there?
[57:32.720 --> 57:33.500]  Oh, yes.
[57:34.020 --> 57:35.080]  Are you the bank?
[57:35.620 --> 57:36.140]  Yes.
[57:36.360 --> 57:38.180]  I want to see the manager, please.
[57:38.740 --> 57:41.220]  I say I want to see... What do you say?
[57:41.920 --> 57:44.640]  This is a... not a telescope, it's a telephone?
[57:45.360 --> 57:47.640]  You're very clever this morning, ain't it?
[57:47.640 --> 57:48.980]  Well, do me a favor.
[57:49.520 --> 57:52.080]  Hang a small piece of crepe on your nose.
[57:52.080 --> 57:53.180]  Your brains are dead.
[57:53.580 --> 57:57.580]  And if I have any more of your importance, I'll speak to the manager about you.
[57:58.020 --> 58:02.420]  I say... Oh, I'm speaking to the... Oh, you're the manager.
[58:02.420 --> 58:03.600]  I beg your pardon.
[58:03.760 --> 58:04.140]  I'm much obliged.
[58:05.040 --> 58:09.020]  Say, Mr. Manager, I rang up to tell you that I'm your tenant, Cohen.
[58:09.020 --> 58:11.940]  I say, I'm your tenant, Cohen.
[58:12.680 --> 58:14.000]  I ain't going.
[58:14.240 --> 58:15.100]  I'm stopping here.
[58:15.640 --> 58:17.300]  I'm your tenant, Cohen.
[58:17.500 --> 58:19.000]  Not Lieutenant Cohen.
[58:19.800 --> 58:24.800]  I want to tell you that last night the wind came and blowed down the shutter outside my house.
[58:25.180 --> 58:31.080]  And I want you to send... I say, last night the wind came... the wind.
[58:31.080 --> 58:33.200]  Not the devil, the wind.
[58:33.480 --> 58:34.000]  The wind.
[58:34.500 --> 58:37.320]  But, you know what... Like that.
[58:37.600 --> 58:40.840]  Well, that blew my shutter down outside my house.
[58:41.200 --> 58:44.620]  And I want you... I say, it blew the shutter out.
[58:44.840 --> 58:45.420]  The shutter.
[58:45.920 --> 58:48.000]  No, I didn't say, shut up.
[58:48.400 --> 58:49.620]  No, the shutter.
[58:50.020 --> 58:52.480]  The thing that goes down the front of the shop.
[58:53.100 --> 58:56.720]  I want you to send the carpenter to mend the shutter.
[58:56.720 --> 59:00.940]  I say, I want you to send the carpenter to mend the shutter.
[59:01.560 --> 59:04.860]  To mend the... Not a tremendous shutter.
[59:04.860 --> 59:05.460]  No.
[59:06.080 --> 59:07.520]  Hello, are you there?
[59:08.060 --> 59:13.540]  Yeah, last night the wind came and blew down the shutter outside my house.
[59:13.820 --> 59:16.080]  And I want you to send the carpenter.
[59:16.500 --> 59:17.880]  A carpenter.
[59:18.420 --> 59:20.240]  A... A voikman, yes.
[59:20.740 --> 59:24.120]  You know, one of those fellas that hit the hammer with the nails.
[59:24.120 --> 59:24.880]  That's it.
[59:25.360 --> 59:26.080]  A voikman.
[59:26.520 --> 59:30.100]  I want you to send a voikman to mend the damaged shutter.
[59:30.920 --> 59:34.240]  I say, I want you to send a voikman to mend.
[59:34.980 --> 59:35.720]  To mend.
[59:36.100 --> 59:37.440]  Not two men.
[59:37.620 --> 59:37.900]  No.
[59:38.180 --> 59:38.860]  One man.
[59:39.060 --> 59:39.700]  Two men.
[59:39.940 --> 59:42.140]  One man to mend the damaged shutter.
[59:42.600 --> 59:43.560]  To mend the...
[59:43.560 --> 59:44.260]  The damage.
[59:44.580 --> 59:46.280]  I ain't swearing at you.
[59:46.280 --> 59:47.480]  I'm only telling you.
[59:47.800 --> 59:48.620]  Are you there?
[59:48.620 --> 59:54.040]  Last night the wind came and blew down the shutter outside my house.
[59:54.280 --> 59:56.700]  And I want you to send a carpenter.
[59:57.160 --> 01:00:00.980]  A carpenter... Oh, never mind, I'll have it fixed myself.
[01:00:02.900 --> 01:00:05.960]  Yeah, that was something, wasn't it, Cat?