[00:00.000 --> 00:06.580]  He's designed a vehicle that will carry five passengers and reach speeds of up to 62 miles per hour.
[00:06.760 --> 00:10.880]  He also plans to fit his cars with engines that run with compressed air.
[00:11.760 --> 00:20.820]  And he's working on a salamandra that will be able to run on water and land, just like the amphibian the car took its name from.
[00:21.880 --> 00:25.320]  Manuel Rueda, FSRN, Bucaramanga, Colombia.
[00:25.320 --> 00:31.680]  And you can see pictures of this car, the salamandra, on our website, FSRN.org.
[00:32.200 --> 00:34.720]  And that will wrap it up for today's newscast.
[00:34.980 --> 00:38.820]  From Pacifica Station KPFK in Los Angeles, I'm Aura Bogado.
[00:40.640 --> 00:43.460]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:43.560 --> 00:46.200]  The time is 7 o'clock on a Wednesday night.
[00:47.360 --> 00:48.800]  Time for Off the Hook.
[00:59.560 --> 01:01.520]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:02.040 --> 01:04.080]  Now I can't make a cough.
[01:04.800 --> 01:06.900]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:09.680 --> 01:12.310]  Bum diddly bombed for the best, expect the worst.
[01:12.960 --> 01:14.840]  I hope that's understood.
[01:15.030 --> 01:16.030]  Bum diddly bombed.
[01:21.640 --> 01:22.660]  And good evening to everybody.
[01:22.780 --> 01:23.740]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:23.940 --> 01:27.140]  Manuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[01:27.340 --> 01:29.600]  Joined tonight by Gus.
[01:29.840 --> 01:30.120]  Daddy.
[01:31.000 --> 01:31.560]  Voltaire.
[01:31.800 --> 01:31.940]  Hey.
[01:32.120 --> 01:32.460]  Jim.
[01:32.840 --> 01:33.100]  Hey.
[01:34.940 --> 01:35.920]  And Dot Red.
[01:36.220 --> 01:36.700]  Hey, hello.
[01:37.020 --> 01:37.420]  Mike.
[01:37.860 --> 01:38.100]  Hi.
[01:38.300 --> 01:38.880]  Bernie S.
[01:39.020 --> 01:39.780]  down in Philadelphia.
[01:40.300 --> 01:41.400]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[01:41.900 --> 01:48.000]  And I guess maybe this is the best time to explain to folks that, well, we were told we weren't on tonight.
[01:48.000 --> 01:51.880]  There was supposed to be a speech of some sort.
[01:52.540 --> 01:56.140]  Yeah, Evo Morales, the president of Bolivia, was supposed to be speaking in the city.
[01:56.360 --> 01:57.740]  But he's not speaking, is he?
[01:58.760 --> 02:00.240]  If he is, we're not carrying it.
[02:00.320 --> 02:02.240]  Yeah, I think he got sick or something like that.
[02:02.240 --> 02:04.380]  And, you know, I knew this was going to happen.
[02:04.760 --> 02:05.740]  I knew something like this was going to happen.
[02:05.760 --> 02:07.900]  Every time we do a live event, something gets messed up.
[02:07.900 --> 02:20.580]  And I advise that we put it on tape or do something else because confusion reigns when you schedule things with world leaders who invariably come up with other plans.
[02:20.580 --> 02:24.560]  So we were told an hour ago that we were on the air and we have nothing.
[02:24.560 --> 02:25.710]  We have nothing prepared.
[02:25.900 --> 02:26.430]  Nothing at all.
[02:26.540 --> 02:27.880]  We are completely unprepared tonight.
[02:28.300 --> 02:30.300]  You can't even get online to make stuff up.
[02:30.400 --> 02:31.000]  I got online?
[02:31.160 --> 02:31.600]  I don't know.
[02:31.710 --> 02:32.300]  Can't get online?
[02:32.440 --> 02:33.000]  Can't get online.
[02:33.100 --> 02:33.270]  Wow.
[02:33.380 --> 02:34.300]  It's this Linux thing.
[02:34.300 --> 02:34.840]  It doesn't work.
[02:35.100 --> 02:36.000]  Is that a new laptop?
[02:36.830 --> 02:37.580]  Not that new.
[02:37.710 --> 02:38.430]  Oh, that's nice.
[02:38.520 --> 02:38.900]  I like it.
[02:39.020 --> 02:44.600]  See, we're going to have a lot of small talk tonight, folks, because we generally spend a lot of time putting...
[02:45.460 --> 02:47.660]  Did I just hear a corporate theme?
[02:47.920 --> 02:48.520]  I thought I did.
[02:49.040 --> 02:49.380]  Okay.
[02:50.100 --> 02:53.900]  We generally spend a lot of time putting the show together, but we were told not to, so we didn't.
[02:54.080 --> 02:55.640]  So what we're going to do tonight...
[02:56.020 --> 03:00.160]  I guess we'll banter a little bit about various things that are going on, but mostly we're going to take phone calls.
[03:00.160 --> 03:00.660]  Why not?
[03:00.780 --> 03:02.940]  And it doesn't have to be phone calls necessarily about off the hook.
[03:02.980 --> 03:06.800]  It can be about anything you want because this is sort of like a free hour that we have now.
[03:07.320 --> 03:09.640]  So our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[03:09.900 --> 03:11.700]  Let's try and keep it a little bit on topic.
[03:12.060 --> 03:13.240]  Well, what is the topic?
[03:13.820 --> 03:14.440]  You see this?
[03:14.440 --> 03:15.040]  Yes, my hands are empty.
[03:15.100 --> 03:15.500]  I have nothing.
[03:15.660 --> 03:16.800]  I prepared nothing this week.
[03:16.800 --> 03:18.000]  I was told we were not on the air.
[03:18.140 --> 03:23.260]  So all I can do is sort of probe into my brain and find things, talk about maybe experiences I had in the last week or so.
[03:23.320 --> 03:23.480]  Gus?
[03:23.700 --> 03:26.480]  We can talk about sexting, this whole...
[03:26.480 --> 03:29.440]  Oh, I'd love to talk about sexting because we haven't talked about that enough.
[03:29.700 --> 03:30.020]  Yeah.
[03:30.280 --> 03:32.060]  Do we have to say sexting?
[03:32.220 --> 03:33.380]  No, I'd rather not.
[03:33.500 --> 03:33.840]  All right.
[03:34.360 --> 03:36.460]  If we have to say Twitter, we have to say sexting.
[03:36.960 --> 03:38.620]  No, because Twitter's a brand name.
[03:39.000 --> 03:39.560]  Sexting isn't.
[03:40.000 --> 03:40.560]  Thank God.
[03:40.660 --> 03:41.600]  That makes it okay, huh?
[03:41.960 --> 03:42.280]  Sexting, TM.
[03:42.280 --> 03:44.340]  I think you should be aware we're not allowed to say brand names.
[03:44.440 --> 03:47.580]  So we're allowed to say sexting.
[03:47.760 --> 03:48.620]  Well, okay, whatever.
[03:49.100 --> 03:49.420]  Intacid.
[03:49.780 --> 03:49.880]  Dot red.
[03:50.100 --> 03:50.240]  Yeah.
[03:51.020 --> 03:52.280]  I was just going to say she had an idea.
[03:53.540 --> 03:55.380]  You raised your hand to tell me that she had an idea.
[03:55.860 --> 03:56.060]  Okay.
[03:56.320 --> 03:56.640]  Yay!
[03:56.880 --> 04:00.120]  We have more phone calls now than we've ever had before when we don't have a topic.
[04:00.200 --> 04:00.500]  It's incredible.
[04:00.700 --> 04:01.020]  What are the April Fools?
[04:01.400 --> 04:02.740]  Bernie, we were at Nauticon.
[04:03.580 --> 04:04.300]  Do you remember that?
[04:04.380 --> 04:05.680]  I remember it like it was yesterday.
[04:05.820 --> 04:08.920]  It was actually maybe like three days ago, but it was kind of cool in Cleveland.
[04:09.140 --> 04:09.960]  I mean, it was very cool in Cleveland.
[04:10.630 --> 04:15.620]  Cleveland itself, I got to say, you know, I always ask this question when I'm in Cleveland.
[04:16.140 --> 04:17.100]  Where are the people?
[04:17.340 --> 04:20.280]  You know, we're walking around at night, brightly lit buildings, big streets.
[04:20.780 --> 04:21.620]  And where are the...
[04:21.620 --> 04:22.740]  And I ask them in the daytime.
[04:22.900 --> 04:23.660]  They say they're at work.
[04:23.760 --> 04:25.860]  At nighttime, they say they're at their houses.
[04:26.360 --> 04:27.200]  They don't exist.
[04:27.340 --> 04:28.160]  There are no people.
[04:28.340 --> 04:29.520]  There are no people in Cleveland.
[04:29.520 --> 04:29.940]  I'm sorry.
[04:30.020 --> 04:30.760]  I don't know where they are.
[04:30.880 --> 04:31.820]  Well, it's depopulating.
[04:32.000 --> 04:38.080]  I mean, when I was there working on the Obama campaign in November, I mean, what we were hearing is houses are being foreclosed on like crazy.
[04:38.920 --> 04:41.040]  Teenagers were telling me, I can't stay here.
[04:41.100 --> 04:41.900]  There's nothing for me here.
[04:41.940 --> 04:43.180]  By which they meant there are no jobs.
[04:43.280 --> 04:44.360]  It's not just that it's no fun.
[04:44.440 --> 04:45.780]  It's like you literally can't work there.
[04:45.940 --> 04:51.080]  So, I mean, I don't know if it's going to go the way of like Detroit, where, you know, you lose 7,000 families a year.
[04:51.160 --> 04:51.660]  Detroit is insane.
[04:51.660 --> 04:53.460]  You don't have to build those whole city blocks, but, you know.
[04:53.620 --> 04:56.240]  Yeah, it's depressing being in Detroit because it's...
[04:56.240 --> 04:59.480]  I don't think it's even considered a city anymore because so few people live there.
[04:59.820 --> 05:01.260]  And the roads are in abysmal shape.
[05:01.320 --> 05:02.140]  The buildings are abandoned.
[05:02.480 --> 05:04.980]  I was in Buffalo and not much better.
[05:06.020 --> 05:08.300]  A lot of these cities really are depressing to be in.
[05:08.360 --> 05:09.880]  And then I come back to New York and it's just...
[05:09.880 --> 05:11.420]  It's so vibrant and alive.
[05:11.640 --> 05:14.560]  Not to poke fun at the rest of the country.
[05:14.740 --> 05:15.060]  Especially Wall Street.
[05:15.720 --> 05:17.020]  No, not especially Wall Street.
[05:17.040 --> 05:18.340]  They're very sad looking down here.
[05:18.620 --> 05:19.440]  Not Kevin is here.
[05:19.500 --> 05:19.800]  How are you doing?
[05:20.460 --> 05:20.820]  Excellent.
[05:21.660 --> 05:22.460]  Surprised we're on tonight, huh?
[05:22.660 --> 05:23.460]  I'm very surprised.
[05:23.460 --> 05:23.960]  I ran.
[05:24.620 --> 05:24.940]  Yeah.
[05:25.680 --> 05:29.260]  You know, I can't say I'm surprised, but, you know, it's...
[05:29.680 --> 05:33.460]  Still, I didn't want to waste time and put a lot of things together if we didn't have anything to talk about.
[05:33.700 --> 05:34.720]  We didn't have a way of talking.
[05:35.160 --> 05:38.320]  But, Bernie, what were your impressions of Noticon this week, this year?
[05:38.660 --> 05:39.840]  I thought it was another success.
[05:39.860 --> 05:45.040]  I kind of liked the hotel last year because it had a sort of a smaller feeling to it, which was nice.
[05:45.200 --> 05:46.740]  But the digs were nice.
[05:47.500 --> 05:48.120]  It was good.
[05:48.240 --> 05:51.240]  There were two tracks of continuous talks for...
[05:51.660 --> 05:52.420]  For the three days.
[05:52.960 --> 05:54.860]  And the block-picking people were there.
[05:55.020 --> 05:56.380]  And it was a good workshop.
[05:56.500 --> 05:57.560]  The block-picking folks did.
[05:58.160 --> 05:59.300]  There were some good talks.
[05:59.600 --> 06:08.100]  The block party thing, which is the North America's largest gathering of demo scene people, was great fun.
[06:08.120 --> 06:09.280]  I think I saw you in there.
[06:09.280 --> 06:15.020]  And we were even discussing, hey, we should do something like this and hope because the demo scene is very cool.
[06:15.160 --> 06:19.400]  For our listeners who aren't familiar with the demo scenes about it, back in the...
[06:19.400 --> 06:20.920]  Back in the...
[06:21.480 --> 06:22.580]  Back in the day.
[06:22.920 --> 06:34.740]  Back in the day, when the Commodore 64 and the Atari 400, 800 computers were popular, people used to try to crack the latest game, computer games that were coming out.
[06:34.740 --> 06:44.480]  And in doing so, they would always put a little vignette at the beginning of the cracked version of the game, saying this was cracked by so-and-so with some really cool graphics and sound for a few seconds.
[06:45.200 --> 06:48.660]  And that developed into an art form of it...
[06:50.760 --> 07:07.500]  And to this day, people now really enjoy the challenge of squeezing the most impressive 8-bit computer graphics demonstration with 8-bit sound effects into the smallest amount of code possible.
[07:07.500 --> 07:18.520]  So you can see this really amazing color audio-visual presentation that lasts for maybe a minute or more, that's done in all of, like, 8K of code.
[07:18.640 --> 07:20.500]  And you're looking at yourself and saying, this is impossible.
[07:20.660 --> 07:23.320]  Nobody could write this in 8K or whatever they wrote it in.
[07:23.880 --> 07:24.800]  But they have.
[07:25.020 --> 07:26.620]  And these people have gotten so good in Europe.
[07:26.740 --> 07:27.600]  It's a huge scene.
[07:27.880 --> 07:31.320]  There's a demo party there that bring, you know, 10,000 people.
[07:31.880 --> 07:36.420]  But maybe we should do something like that at the next vote, because it's a lot of fun.
[07:36.740 --> 07:39.780]  The visuals and the audio are very cool.
[07:39.780 --> 07:44.380]  And it's a real technical competition at the same time as being an artistic one.
[07:44.380 --> 07:49.800]  Yeah, well, I'm definitely open for that if people want to organize that for sure.
[07:50.160 --> 07:53.800]  The next hope in, I believe, July of 2010 is when we'll be holding that.
[07:53.940 --> 07:56.960]  So, yeah, let's get that process started.
[07:57.380 --> 08:01.680]  Let's bring the demo scene to Midtown Manhattan next summer.
[08:02.480 --> 08:04.320]  Any other highlights for Not A Con for you?
[08:05.800 --> 08:08.360]  I met a lot of people that I had not met before.
[08:08.520 --> 08:10.260]  And I ran over a lot of people that I knew.
[08:10.720 --> 08:11.900]  There were some great parties.
[08:12.560 --> 08:13.980]  There were some good talks.
[08:14.480 --> 08:15.980]  I'm kind of fatigued right now.
[08:16.080 --> 08:18.340]  I can't remember any of them off the top of my head.
[08:18.340 --> 08:21.360]  But there was some good stuff for people that want to find out what they missed.
[08:21.580 --> 08:26.480]  If you go to notacon.org, you can see a list of the...
[08:26.480 --> 08:27.400]  Click on speakers.
[08:27.620 --> 08:28.900]  You can see a list of all the talks they missed.
[08:29.060 --> 08:32.070]  And they should be online in a couple, three weeks.
[08:32.280 --> 08:33.540]  You'll be able to download the audio.
[08:33.760 --> 08:36.980]  And then later, the video, maybe in a month or two after they get all that online.
[08:36.980 --> 08:45.500]  Our friend Ted, who documented The Last Hope with audio and video, also did the audio-video documentation at Not A Con.
[08:45.620 --> 08:48.680]  So I imagine the job was as well done as he does.
[08:49.400 --> 08:51.380]  So it should be online shortly.
[08:52.060 --> 08:52.280]  Okay.
[08:53.060 --> 09:00.180]  And again, Not A Con is the annual hacker convention taking place in Cleveland that Bernie and I just got back from a few days ago.
[09:00.620 --> 09:01.560]  And Rob was there.
[09:01.680 --> 09:02.320]  And Rob T.
[09:02.420 --> 09:02.940]  Firefly was there.
[09:03.000 --> 09:06.300]  He's not here now because he was under the impression we weren't on tonight as well.
[09:06.620 --> 09:09.780]  So we're kind of scattered all over the city and the state.
[09:11.300 --> 09:12.980]  But we are here for the most part.
[09:13.200 --> 09:15.760]  And like I said, we'll be taking some phone calls in just a couple of minutes.
[09:16.000 --> 09:19.900]  It's kind of impressive that so many of us were able to make it on like 10 minutes' notice.
[09:20.080 --> 09:21.380]  Yeah, well, I did warn you.
[09:21.520 --> 09:23.000]  I said, this is the kind of thing that's going to happen.
[09:23.000 --> 09:24.280]  So you guys better be around.
[09:24.320 --> 09:25.480]  And most of you were.
[09:25.600 --> 09:26.580]  So I'm impressed.
[09:27.880 --> 09:28.160]  Okay.
[09:28.360 --> 09:29.000]  So let's...
[09:29.760 --> 09:34.420]  Since I don't have anything in front of me, we can just basically maybe talk about...
[09:34.420 --> 09:35.020]  Yeah, go ahead, Bernie.
[09:35.640 --> 09:37.660]  There is an important story we should probably cover.
[09:37.780 --> 09:38.000]  I don't have any...
[09:38.000 --> 09:39.060]  Well, that's what I was going to mention.
[09:39.060 --> 09:40.080]  You cut me off.
[09:40.200 --> 09:41.540]  I was going to mention the Pirate Bay story.
[09:41.660 --> 09:42.320]  Is that what you're going to talk about?
[09:42.640 --> 09:43.440]  You read my mind.
[09:43.540 --> 09:44.940]  No, you interrupted my voice.
[09:45.000 --> 09:46.040]  No, you pirated your mind.
[09:46.500 --> 09:46.780]  Listen.
[09:48.000 --> 09:48.960]  Okay, fine.
[09:49.060 --> 09:49.660]  Bernie, you know what?
[09:49.740 --> 09:54.280]  You get the assignment to explain exactly what Pirate Bay is and what this trial is all about.
[09:54.420 --> 09:54.820]  Go for it.
[09:55.760 --> 09:57.460]  Well, Mike could probably explain this better.
[09:57.640 --> 09:58.880]  But basically, in Sweden...
[09:58.880 --> 09:59.380]  Mike didn't interrupt me.
[09:59.420 --> 09:59.700]  You did.
[10:00.120 --> 10:04.260]  There's a group in Sweden that refers to themselves as the Pirate Bay.
[10:05.020 --> 10:21.440]  And they operate servers around the world, as do a lot of many other people, that simply point to where you can download BitTorrent streams of various material, whether sometimes some of it's copyrighted.
[10:21.520 --> 10:22.340]  Much of it is not.
[10:23.050 --> 10:30.620]  But they do not host any copyrighted material on any of their servers.
[10:30.780 --> 10:32.860]  This sounds like what Napster was doing years ago, right?
[10:33.360 --> 10:34.020]  Well, no.
[10:34.300 --> 10:35.620]  Napster actually had...
[10:35.620 --> 10:41.000]  Similar, but Napster's application actually ran on people's computers that stored this.
[10:41.120 --> 10:42.380]  The Pirate Bay themselves...
[10:43.220 --> 10:52.780]  They're simply pointing to BitTorrent locations where you can easily find what you're looking for, then you go elsewhere to download it.
[10:52.860 --> 11:00.380]  So you would think that the Pirate Bay has no liability, since they're not conducting any copyright violations themselves.
[11:01.580 --> 11:07.120]  Yet, the Swedish courts, which has a very strange legal system, ruled otherwise last week.
[11:07.160 --> 11:08.500]  Mike, do you have any more details on that?
[11:08.700 --> 11:13.540]  Yeah, the four founders, I guess, of the Pirate Bay were sentenced to a year in jail.
[11:13.540 --> 11:21.020]  And they're supposed to pay about 30 million Swedish kronor, which is $4.5 million in damages.
[11:22.280 --> 11:27.960]  So there's going to be an appeal taking place, but it's quite a serious thing.
[11:28.180 --> 11:30.780]  Do you have the quote by some of the Pirate Bay people on there?
[11:30.820 --> 11:35.260]  Because it was really some great quotes from them after this verdict was announced.
[11:36.160 --> 11:38.060]  Well, there's a lot of quotes.
[11:38.060 --> 11:44.340]  One of them said, in fact, Mr. Gottfried said, that we can't pay and we won't pay.
[11:44.460 --> 11:45.020]  That's it, yes.
[11:45.040 --> 11:49.160]  Even if I had the money, I would rather burn everything I own, and I wouldn't even give them the ashes.
[11:49.800 --> 11:51.940]  So they're taking really a principled stand.
[11:51.940 --> 11:54.900]  Somebody who says that, I don't care what they stand for.
[11:54.960 --> 11:56.040]  They have earned my respect.
[11:56.520 --> 11:59.080]  But I happen to agree with them totally in this.
[11:59.220 --> 12:01.560]  And that's just, it's kind of shocking.
[12:01.600 --> 12:08.460]  Do you think there's any confusion maybe with the Somali Pirate case that the Swedish courts maybe thought they were sentencing people that did real piracy?
[12:09.640 --> 12:10.560]  It's been in the news.
[12:10.780 --> 12:12.000]  Well, that case is interesting as well.
[12:12.180 --> 12:12.660]  It is.
[12:12.720 --> 12:16.120]  But I'm going to have to say that the Swedish courts are not that dumb.
[12:16.620 --> 12:19.320]  Yeah, well, they're kind of dumb because this is a ridiculous ruling.
[12:19.320 --> 12:20.820]  You know, there's dumb and then there's dumb.
[12:20.900 --> 12:21.060]  Dot rat.
[12:21.160 --> 12:25.440]  It's ridiculous because it's not as if they made any profit off of what they were doing.
[12:25.560 --> 12:29.260]  So how do the courts expect them to pay this enormous fine?
[12:29.360 --> 12:32.480]  Well, they always fine people enormous amounts that they can't pay.
[12:32.480 --> 12:35.860]  You know, if these guys aren't in prison next year, we've got to get them to hope.
[12:36.100 --> 12:38.340]  I don't know if they really care to enter the United States.
[12:38.340 --> 12:39.580]  They're already in trouble in Sweden.
[12:39.680 --> 12:41.060]  Maybe they can escape to the United States.
[12:41.120 --> 12:42.020]  Yeah, it doesn't work that way.
[12:42.100 --> 12:42.660]  Well, I don't know.
[12:42.760 --> 12:45.440]  We can get them in under cover or something like that.
[12:45.840 --> 12:46.260]  A blanket.
[12:46.360 --> 12:46.860]  Voltaire, you had something?
[12:47.320 --> 12:57.300]  I was just going to say that in no seriousness, I think it's a good thing that the real pirate story is that the Somalian pirates is coming out at the same time that this is happening because it puts it into context.
[12:57.300 --> 13:07.160]  It's like, why are we caring so much about these people that are, quote-unquote, stealing media or making unauthorized copy of when we have real pirates out of the 1700s that we thought we got rid of that?
[13:07.340 --> 13:08.660]  Well, they're living in our century, too.
[13:08.740 --> 13:11.880]  They're not time travelers, but it's the same basic thing.
[13:11.980 --> 13:16.920]  And we have the first piracy trial, real piracy trial, in this country since before the Declaration of Independence was signed.
[13:17.280 --> 13:19.760]  It's not clear, actually, what's going on there.
[13:19.860 --> 13:20.640]  It's been a while.
[13:20.800 --> 13:25.880]  What I think Voltaire was pointing out was the fact that we haven't actually tried anyone for piracy like this in, like, 100 years.
[13:26.660 --> 13:28.440]  So it sort of is a blast to the past.
[13:28.640 --> 13:29.380]  Well, yeah, that's true.
[13:29.480 --> 13:29.760]  That's true.
[13:29.920 --> 13:31.380]  We're going back in time in many, many ways.
[13:32.380 --> 13:35.680]  Okay, so yeah, the Pirate Bay case was rather interesting.
[13:35.700 --> 13:39.120]  Any other thoughts or opinions on that as to how it's going to affect us?
[13:39.240 --> 13:52.160]  Well, what's interesting is that they're saying, the founders of the Pirate Bay are saying that even if they continue to lose, they have diversified their servers in so many different jurisdictions that the service will stay up.
[13:52.160 --> 13:54.620]  So that'll be interesting to see if it happens or not.
[13:55.160 --> 13:55.480]  All right.
[13:55.620 --> 13:59.000]  Of course, even if the Pirate Bay goes down, anyone else can set something up.
[13:59.080 --> 14:04.020]  Okay, how does Pirate Bay, how did Pirate Bay, find out where the torrents were?
[14:04.660 --> 14:05.400]  People tell them.
[14:05.520 --> 14:06.120]  People tell them.
[14:06.180 --> 14:08.000]  And they just basically point anywhere people tell them?
[14:08.080 --> 14:08.400]  Is that how it works?
[14:08.420 --> 14:10.580]  It's no different than how Google does their search.
[14:10.700 --> 14:17.000]  You can do the same thing on the Google search, just put in the operators to make it only look at torrent files.
[14:17.260 --> 14:19.300]  I'm not sure exactly how to do that, but...
[14:19.300 --> 14:21.360]  So we can use Google to replace Pirate Bay is what you're saying.
[14:21.360 --> 14:22.420]  Yeah, there's an article about that.
[14:22.580 --> 14:22.840]  Wow.
[14:23.220 --> 14:24.640]  So we should lock up Google then.
[14:25.120 --> 14:25.920]  Makes sense.
[14:26.140 --> 14:26.320]  Yes.
[14:26.780 --> 14:28.040]  Just waving your hand for no reason.
[14:28.400 --> 14:29.580]  Those are my excited...
[14:29.580 --> 14:32.840]  Okay, in the radio world, when you wave your hand, that means you want to talk.
[14:33.060 --> 14:35.820]  So it's not just drawing nails or something like that.
[14:35.900 --> 14:36.380]  Don't do that there.
[14:36.820 --> 14:37.020]  Okay.
[14:37.340 --> 14:42.280]  Any other words or stories or things?
[14:42.500 --> 14:43.240]  I have another story.
[14:43.940 --> 14:44.460]  You have another story?
[14:44.560 --> 14:45.620]  You know, I'm sort of...
[14:45.620 --> 14:47.200]  Okay, well, you got online.
[14:47.400 --> 14:47.800]  I got online.
[14:47.920 --> 14:51.180]  Now I'm offline again, but the story that's already on my screen, I can read.
[14:51.360 --> 14:51.560]  All right.
[14:51.620 --> 15:04.440]  Which is the story from MIT that apparently the IT people at MIT, which is a lot of letters in a row, and just for more letters, they're called I-S-N-T, whatever that stands for.
[15:04.580 --> 15:05.400]  It stands for isn't.
[15:05.400 --> 15:09.500]  No, it's an ampersand, not an N-I-S-N-T.
[15:09.680 --> 15:10.020]  Oh, okay.
[15:10.300 --> 15:10.420]  Yeah.
[15:10.520 --> 15:11.640]  Isn't that A-I-S-N-T now?
[15:13.300 --> 15:15.360]  Not in this literal article.
[15:15.360 --> 15:16.120]  Let's get on with it.
[15:16.200 --> 15:22.640]  Anyway, they have been apparently keeping a log of every website that everyone at MIT goes to, and they keep it for three days.
[15:22.780 --> 15:26.020]  And they've been doing this for a long time and not telling anyone, since 1999.
[15:26.420 --> 15:27.660]  And why do they do this exactly?
[15:27.660 --> 15:40.640]  They say it's for network security purposes, but this is the kind of logs that now that, especially now that it's in the public that these logs are kept, there's got to be all kinds of people who are going to want to get their hands on these logs and get MIT,
[15:41.020 --> 15:42.580]  particularly students, in trouble.
[15:43.360 --> 15:43.760]  Interesting.
[15:45.080 --> 15:47.100]  So, I hope they stop, but we'll see.
[15:47.240 --> 15:53.320]  I saw a story this morning on Euronews about how child pornography is being stopped in Germany.
[15:53.680 --> 16:02.500]  They're actually putting something forth at the ISP level that will, they say, install a stop sign if you try to go to a particular site.
[16:02.560 --> 16:12.580]  But what's funny about the story, and the story is probably still running for those of you who get that channel, they show at the very beginning someone typing in a URL, and it looks very much like the actual URL of one of those sites.
[16:13.100 --> 16:16.040]  I hesitate to say it, but it sounded convincing.
[16:16.320 --> 16:17.820]  What's the German word for stop sign?
[16:18.300 --> 16:19.480]  No, it wasn't a stop sign.
[16:19.540 --> 16:20.260]  It was an actual...
[16:20.260 --> 16:20.780]  Stop sign .de?
[16:21.020 --> 16:22.820]  Yeah, but that wasn't the site they were going to.
[16:22.820 --> 16:26.160]  They were going to a site that was offensive, or would be offensive.
[16:26.760 --> 16:28.120]  But yeah, it's kind of strange.
[16:28.200 --> 16:32.240]  Usually they cover those things up, and they don't show you the actual URL.
[16:33.100 --> 16:33.340]  Yeah.
[16:34.320 --> 16:34.900]  Okay, whatever.
[16:35.060 --> 16:38.560]  I'm not going to say the URL, because it would lead to trouble, a lot of trouble.
[16:38.760 --> 16:39.500]  Yes, Voltaire?
[16:40.220 --> 16:41.480]  Just waving your hand, too.
[16:41.480 --> 16:42.780]  What's going on over here?
[16:43.860 --> 16:44.620]  All right, you know what?
[16:44.640 --> 16:46.860]  I'm going to go to phones, because I think we've run out of things to say.
[16:47.820 --> 16:49.160]  212-209-2900.
[16:49.340 --> 16:53.280]  Again, our phone lines are open for people who want to discuss anything on their minds, really.
[16:54.780 --> 17:03.000]  But let's try and keep it somewhat off the hook-ish, because that's what we usually do here every week from 7 to 8 o'clock.
[17:04.770 --> 17:08.360]  Bernie, anything else interesting happening down in Philadelphia that you wish to share with us?
[17:08.820 --> 17:09.420]  Not a lot.
[17:09.460 --> 17:15.040]  I'm looking forward to taking a good segment of listener calls this week, because we've been putting them off for a bit.
[17:15.200 --> 17:18.420]  And I'd like to hear what our listeners are thinking and saying.
[17:18.660 --> 17:18.900]  Yes.
[17:19.080 --> 17:22.440]  And, you know, a couple of ground rules, which, you know, normally apply.
[17:23.140 --> 17:24.680]  We don't want to hear diatribes.
[17:24.720 --> 17:25.560]  We don't want to hear speeches.
[17:25.760 --> 17:29.840]  We don't want to hear character assassination for any of the controversy going on in this place, which is always happening.
[17:31.020 --> 17:36.160]  Feel free to speak your mind, but make it somewhat quick, somewhat pertinent, somewhat interesting.
[17:36.600 --> 17:37.680]  And we'll be...
[17:37.680 --> 17:39.560]  Are you actually waving your hand to say something now?
[17:39.640 --> 17:39.940]  Okay, go ahead.
[17:40.180 --> 17:43.200]  Yeah, character assassination is not okay, but how about character impersonation?
[17:43.300 --> 17:43.660]  Is that okay?
[17:44.160 --> 17:44.900]  I'd rather...
[17:44.900 --> 17:47.520]  Like if people want to do their best Bernie S impersonation?
[17:47.580 --> 17:49.460]  Save that for another time, maybe.
[17:50.440 --> 17:54.100]  Character assassination, I think, of us is okay, but other people...
[17:54.100 --> 17:54.380]  Fine.
[17:54.480 --> 17:59.300]  If we're here to defend ourselves, but no character assassination of anybody who can't defend themselves.
[18:00.450 --> 18:00.900]  What's that?
[18:01.020 --> 18:04.640]  I said, don't think about it, though, on the personal computer show, don't be infilting us.
[18:04.940 --> 18:05.790]  But here, it's okay.
[18:06.000 --> 18:06.180]  Yeah.
[18:06.580 --> 18:06.680]  Okay.
[18:06.860 --> 18:08.180]  212-209-2900.
[18:08.300 --> 18:08.740]  Let's take a phone call.
[18:08.800 --> 18:09.080]  Good evening.
[18:09.200 --> 18:09.940]  You're on off the hook.
[18:10.880 --> 18:11.360]  Good evening.
[18:11.580 --> 18:11.860]  How are you doing?
[18:11.880 --> 18:12.320]  Rafi Firefly here.
[18:13.030 --> 18:13.740]  Rafi Firefly.
[18:13.790 --> 18:14.060]  Wow.
[18:14.180 --> 18:15.360]  What a stroke of good fortune.
[18:15.820 --> 18:16.100]  Yes.
[18:16.380 --> 18:17.020]  What's on your mind?
[18:17.730 --> 18:25.540]  Well, first of all, I'd like to convey my displeasure to President Evo Morales of Bolivia, because on his account, I stayed home today.
[18:26.100 --> 18:33.980]  Well, according to the WBI website, the special program of Bolivian President Evo Morales has been canceled due to his sudden illness.
[18:34.540 --> 18:36.820]  So, uh, sounds a bit ominous.
[18:36.900 --> 18:39.560]  Maybe he was poisoned when he got into this country, because he's too leftist.
[18:39.940 --> 18:40.340]  I don't know.
[18:40.400 --> 18:42.340]  Maybe it was like an Axel Rose type of sudden illness.
[18:42.770 --> 18:43.520]  Uh, yeah.
[18:43.680 --> 18:44.380]  It could be one of those.
[18:44.900 --> 18:45.220]  Definitely.
[18:45.500 --> 18:53.880]  But, um, the main reason I called, though, is because I would not be able to sleep at night if I didn't, um, convey my sincerest thanks to all involved with Nauticon.
[18:54.200 --> 18:55.400]  It was a great time.
[18:56.180 --> 19:00.380]  Um, I just want to thank Froggy and, uh, everyone else and all the great people I met.
[19:00.940 --> 19:04.740]  Um, Ed Pitsker, who I finally met, um, a very talented artist.
[19:05.260 --> 19:07.840]  And, um, also Bernie S.
[19:07.880 --> 19:10.680]  and Leo for, uh, helping to drag my carcass down there.
[19:10.680 --> 19:11.260]  So, yeah.
[19:12.040 --> 19:12.360]  Yes.
[19:12.560 --> 19:12.760]  Great, great time.
[19:12.880 --> 19:17.140]  And special thanks to Leo for bringing back that, uh, special equipment we needed, uh, from, from Pittsburgh.
[19:18.020 --> 19:21.520]  Um, so hopefully, hopefully we'll get those to the right people at some point.
[19:21.920 --> 19:25.880]  Uh, but yeah, you, you mentioned, uh, Ed, uh, and yeah, it was great meeting him too.
[19:25.960 --> 19:30.580]  He's the guy who put together the, uh, the, the, the comic, um, the, the, how do you define it?
[19:30.790 --> 19:31.640]  Uh, it's not a comic strip.
[19:32.000 --> 19:32.900]  It's a graphic novel.
[19:33.040 --> 19:34.060]  Yes, that's the right phrase.
[19:34.240 --> 19:35.540]  Bernie, do you want to describe it a little bit?
[19:36.160 --> 19:36.700]  Oh, yeah.
[19:36.720 --> 19:40.300]  For the first time I got to see these, uh, these volumes that Ed Pitsker does.
[19:40.300 --> 19:46.790]  Um, he, uh, he's put out a couple volumes, he's working on the third one and the fourth one now, of, uh, graphic novels.
[19:46.790 --> 20:00.660]  They're like comic books, uh, black and white, uh, very detailed, uh, uh, artwork, uh, describing the, uh, the phone freaker scene and the hacker scene in, uh, in very dramatic, uh, fictitious ways.
[20:01.040 --> 20:09.860]  And there's a lot of homages to, to some of us on Off the Hook and other friends that we know, uh, that are thinly disguised.
[20:10.560 --> 20:17.380]  Um, homages, which is kind of fun to see, uh, to see, uh, to see your, your alter egos portrayed, uh, in a, in a graphic novel.
[20:17.820 --> 20:25.660]  Um, but they're, they're, they're very, uh, compelling, uh, uh, and fun, uh, graphic novels.
[20:25.760 --> 20:31.060]  And, uh, Ed Piscar, who it was really a pleasure to meet, I ran into him in the elevator and was like, oh, you're the, you're the guy.
[20:31.060 --> 20:31.120]  Okay.
[20:31.720 --> 20:35.120]  Um, he's a professional, uh, uh, graphic artist.
[20:35.360 --> 20:40.120]  He does, uh, professional cartoon work, uh, uh, uh, for, for, for clients.
[20:40.300 --> 20:44.500]  But he decided to go out on his own and just independently publish these books on his own.
[20:45.040 --> 20:47.900]  Um, and, uh, this is really good material.
[20:47.900 --> 20:55.880]  So I, I recommend anyone, uh, interested in this stuff to, uh, just, uh, search the internet for his name, Ed Piscar, P-A-P-I-S-K-O-R.
[20:56.300 --> 20:57.860]  And, uh, check this stuff out.
[20:58.180 --> 20:59.760]  Um, I think, I think all this stuff is online.
[20:59.760 --> 21:00.240]  Is that right?
[21:00.460 --> 21:03.240]  I, I, I, I believe so, or some of it is anyway.
[21:03.440 --> 21:16.840]  But, uh, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, um, testament to how many interesting people you can meet at a conference like this and, and how, um, what we're doing here on this particular show, on this particular station can reach a lot of people and, and affect them.
[21:16.920 --> 21:18.880]  And it's really kind of, kind of cool to see that.
[21:19.290 --> 21:21.220]  Uh, now, Rob, is there anything else that you wanted to share with us?
[21:21.260 --> 21:23.900]  Because I do want to, uh, try and take some of these many phone calls that are coming in.
[21:24.000 --> 21:24.700]  We have a full switchboard.
[21:25.460 --> 21:25.580]  Okay.
[21:25.760 --> 21:27.460]  Well, don't let me keep you, uh, have a great show, guys.
[21:27.640 --> 21:29.740]  And, uh, I will see you all next week.
[21:29.800 --> 21:30.120]  Next week.
[21:30.240 --> 21:30.880]  We are definitely on.
[21:30.980 --> 21:32.600]  No, no foreign leaders coming to give speeches.
[21:33.160 --> 21:33.420]  Thanks.
[21:33.580 --> 21:33.960]  Uh, we hope.
[21:34.120 --> 21:34.980]  Thanks, Rob, for your call.
[21:35.640 --> 21:36.800]  Uh, yes, not Kevin.
[21:36.940 --> 21:37.360]  You're pointing.
[21:37.620 --> 21:39.220]  You want, you want to, you want to pick the next one?
[21:40.040 --> 21:40.520]  All right.
[21:40.660 --> 21:41.920]  Pick, pick a button.
[21:42.000 --> 21:43.680]  Just don't disconnect Bernie when you do that.
[21:43.900 --> 21:44.620]  It better be good.
[21:44.760 --> 21:44.900]  Yeah.
[21:45.240 --> 21:46.020]  All right.
[21:46.100 --> 21:46.320]  Go ahead.
[21:46.880 --> 21:47.380]  Good evening.
[21:47.500 --> 21:48.360]  You're on off the hook.
[21:48.680 --> 21:50.740]  Oh my, Kevin, you did a good job.
[21:50.960 --> 21:51.320]  You did, Kevin.
[21:51.680 --> 21:52.120]  Congratulations.
[21:52.700 --> 21:53.260]  What's on your mind?
[21:54.060 --> 21:55.240]  Um, oh, Emmanuel?
[21:55.460 --> 21:55.980]  Yes, go ahead.
[21:56.200 --> 21:56.680]  A long time.
[21:56.680 --> 21:57.140]  No speak.
[21:57.280 --> 21:57.920]  This is Shanti.
[21:58.700 --> 22:07.040]  And, um, I had an incident with, um, the telephone company today, which was, uh, rather shocking.
[22:07.880 --> 22:26.420]  Um, and I'm, I, I'm going to, I'm trying to figure out how to abbreviate the story, but let me just tell you that yesterday I got a, um, a whole bunch of guys from the fire department knocking at my door telling me that my nephew, who's, uh, uh, teaches,
[22:26.480 --> 22:34.720]  uh, the, uh, first responders, uh, so he tried to reach me on the phone and had one heck of a job getting through.
[22:34.920 --> 22:43.740]  And he went right into as far as he could go, uh, to, with the telephone company, but he thought I was dead because I'm, you know, an octogenarian.
[22:43.980 --> 22:45.540]  So you, you start to worry about older people.
[22:45.540 --> 22:49.660]  But in the meantime, I didn't know that my phone was completely disconnected.
[22:49.720 --> 22:54.900]  I couldn't receive calls as well as make any calls.
[22:55.120 --> 22:58.700]  As far as I know, you usually can at least receive calls.
[22:59.840 --> 23:06.060]  Well, I checked all of this out and I had, should I go on or what?
[23:06.200 --> 23:09.500]  Well, if you could make it, maybe sum it up because we'd have a lot of calls waiting.
[23:09.660 --> 23:09.840]  I'm sorry.
[23:10.040 --> 23:24.380]  I, I, I hate to do this, but I basically, I almost really want to ask a question of you guys, which is when you know that there has been an injustice, namely to, to deprive people of their phone service, when you've offered to pay what you owe them.
[23:25.460 --> 23:32.080]  Um, and, uh, and then they disconnect you without any warning that they're going to.
[23:32.220 --> 23:50.120]  It's only, it was only, only the reason that I was delinquent in the payment was because this you'll love, uh, is the bank got in touch with me that they had discontinued a whole bunch of threat credit cards because of a theft that was going on with a certain number of credit cards.
[23:50.380 --> 23:51.840]  And mine happened to fall into that.
[23:52.320 --> 23:54.060]  They were going to issue me a new one.
[23:54.220 --> 23:57.080]  Meanwhile, I was on EFT to pay my bills.
[23:57.440 --> 24:00.740]  And by the time I caught up with it, okay, but now what, what, what is your question though?
[24:00.840 --> 24:08.980]  My question is when you see it complete injustice done, um, which will affect a lot of older people, quite frankly.
[24:09.140 --> 24:09.320]  Right.
[24:09.720 --> 24:12.220]  Um, what's your recourse legally?
[24:12.860 --> 24:24.320]  Uh, well, in the question of, of, of the phone company, the phone company disconnects your phone and, uh, doesn't give you any warning, then they're, uh, they're answerable to the public service commission and you can call them obviously not on your phone,
[24:24.400 --> 24:25.740]  but you can call them on someone else's phone.
[24:25.820 --> 24:32.280]  No, I got, I got my service, believe me, I fought and I won my fight, but, uh, with, with the company itself.
[24:32.840 --> 24:36.200]  But, uh, I, but I don't, I don't like the fact that they did what they did.
[24:36.440 --> 24:39.200]  I mean, I, I, I've got my service restored today.
[24:39.520 --> 24:39.940]  Uh-huh.
[24:40.560 --> 24:46.500]  But I'm really interested in, in, in, in considering other people being in the same situation.
[24:46.660 --> 24:59.140]  Well, I mean, it's, it's always good to, to, uh, make sure your story is told so that if other people are experiencing the same thing, they, they know they're not alone and they, maybe you, you can organize something and, and, uh, and, and protest against,
[24:59.320 --> 25:00.620]  uh, whatever entity is doing this to you.
[25:00.860 --> 25:01.760]  Yes, I understand.
[25:01.780 --> 25:02.580]  That's the important thing.
[25:02.620 --> 25:04.000]  I'm not paranoid about it.
[25:04.060 --> 25:04.900]  No, that's the other thing.
[25:05.020 --> 25:06.880]  Don't get paranoid about it, but, uh, yeah.
[25:07.700 --> 25:07.840]  All right.
[25:07.880 --> 25:09.100]  Well, listen, I wish you the best of luck.
[25:09.180 --> 25:09.920]  Thank you very much.
[25:10.080 --> 25:10.360]  All right.
[25:10.400 --> 25:11.240]  Take care.
[25:11.980 --> 25:13.780]  212-209-2900.
[25:13.940 --> 25:14.580]  You want to try another one?
[25:14.700 --> 25:15.000]  Not Kevin?
[25:15.100 --> 25:15.300]  Go ahead.
[25:15.500 --> 25:15.980]  Of course.
[25:16.140 --> 25:18.020]  Let's, uh, let's, let's push the button.
[25:18.240 --> 25:18.500]  Four.
[25:18.820 --> 25:19.140]  Four.
[25:19.340 --> 25:19.600]  Good evening.
[25:19.720 --> 25:20.360]  You're on off the hook.
[25:21.120 --> 25:21.560]  All right.
[25:21.560 --> 25:24.100]  You know, that's, that's, that's okay.
[25:24.360 --> 25:25.380]  I'll give you one more chance.
[25:25.480 --> 25:26.080]  We get another dial tone.
[25:26.200 --> 25:26.460]  You're out.
[25:27.120 --> 25:27.660]  Go ahead.
[25:28.500 --> 25:28.700]  Eight.
[25:29.060 --> 25:29.340]  All right.
[25:29.380 --> 25:29.660]  Good evening.
[25:29.780 --> 25:30.540]  You're on off the hook.
[25:31.540 --> 25:31.860]  No.
[25:31.880 --> 25:35.580]  I did say dial tone, but if I get another one of those two, you're also out.
[25:35.700 --> 25:36.080]  So go ahead.
[25:36.560 --> 25:37.860]  212-209-2900.
[25:40.760 --> 25:41.240]  Good evening.
[25:41.380 --> 25:41.840]  You're on off the hook.
[25:42.080 --> 25:42.200]  Okay.
[25:42.280 --> 25:42.700]  That's it, Kevin.
[25:42.820 --> 25:43.120]  I'm sorry.
[25:43.280 --> 25:43.580]  I'm sorry.
[25:45.180 --> 25:46.100]  You had one.
[25:46.100 --> 25:46.820]  It was a good effort.
[25:46.980 --> 25:47.660]  It was a good effort.
[25:47.820 --> 25:49.320]  You had a good run, but now it's over.
[25:49.620 --> 25:49.980]  Good evening.
[25:50.220 --> 25:50.820]  You're on off the hook.
[25:52.280 --> 25:53.080]  See, that's how you do it.
[25:53.400 --> 25:53.700]  Go ahead.
[25:53.700 --> 25:56.080]  What Hacker News do you have to offer?
[25:56.260 --> 25:56.620]  I'm sorry?
[25:56.880 --> 25:57.820]  What's Comrex?
[25:58.440 --> 25:59.660]  Finish your sandwich first.
[25:59.760 --> 25:59.820]  What?
[26:00.600 --> 26:03.700]  What's Comrex and what's Hacker News?
[26:03.700 --> 26:07.480]  I mean, you're listed on the program as Hacker News.
[26:07.820 --> 26:09.200]  We're listed as Hacker News.
[26:09.760 --> 26:10.420]  Yeah.
[26:10.560 --> 26:10.640]  Yeah.
[26:11.040 --> 26:18.820]  And I want to know if Tony Riddle mentioned the word Comrex, that WBAI now has this machine.
[26:19.040 --> 26:20.780]  We have a Comrex machine.
[26:21.560 --> 26:22.560]  Look up Comrex.
[26:22.680 --> 26:23.640]  Mike, you're on the internet.
[26:23.860 --> 26:24.440]  Not right now.
[26:24.560 --> 26:24.760]  All right.
[26:24.840 --> 26:26.520]  Well, Comrex, maybe it's a robot or something.
[26:26.600 --> 26:27.120]  It sounds evil.
[26:27.620 --> 26:29.420]  Thanks for warning us about Comrex.
[26:29.520 --> 26:31.760]  Evil Comrex is coming to... Okay.
[26:32.240 --> 26:32.760]  Good evening.
[26:32.920 --> 26:33.500]  You're on off the hook.
[26:33.740 --> 26:34.000]  All right.
[26:34.980 --> 26:35.900]  Don't look at me like that.
[26:37.080 --> 26:37.740]  Good evening.
[26:38.200 --> 26:38.760]  Oh, my God.
[26:38.760 --> 26:39.440]  What's going on here?
[26:39.480 --> 26:40.520]  People, stay on the phone line.
[26:40.820 --> 26:41.200]  Good evening.
[26:41.400 --> 26:42.200]  You're on off the hook.
[26:43.000 --> 26:43.440]  Go ahead.
[26:43.540 --> 26:43.880]  Speak up.
[26:45.120 --> 26:46.340]  And turn on your radio, too.
[26:49.500 --> 26:50.000]  Speak Hi.
[26:50.080 --> 26:50.360]  Hi.
[26:50.540 --> 26:51.080]  How are you?
[26:51.180 --> 26:51.380]  Good.
[26:51.480 --> 26:52.000]  What's on your mind?
[26:52.560 --> 26:54.620]  Oh, I just wanted to... I'm here.
[26:54.740 --> 26:55.140]  Turn me down.
[26:55.300 --> 26:56.080]  Yeah, turn down the radio.
[26:56.200 --> 26:56.540]  I did.
[26:56.760 --> 26:56.860]  I did.
[26:56.860 --> 26:57.100]  I did.
[26:57.620 --> 27:00.860]  I'm calling in because I'm calling about the Pirate Bay situation.
[27:00.860 --> 27:03.840]  I read about that on... Was it Friday the decision came down?
[27:04.020 --> 27:04.140]  Right.
[27:04.660 --> 27:16.120]  And to me, as the daughter of a lawyer and someone who's worked for attorneys for years, I felt like, you know, if you read the other side's comments, they made it sound like they won a big victory.
[27:16.300 --> 27:18.540]  And then the result was the site's still on.
[27:19.020 --> 27:20.400]  The site's still up?
[27:20.580 --> 27:21.280]  Pirate Bay is still up?
[27:21.420 --> 27:21.420]  No.
[27:21.420 --> 27:23.680]  The site is still up and running.
[27:23.880 --> 27:24.480]  Oh, I didn't know that.
[27:24.580 --> 27:26.860]  I thought it was... I just assumed it was taken down.
[27:27.020 --> 27:27.780]  No, no, no, no, no.
[27:27.780 --> 27:30.340]  It is running and it says it on the site itself.
[27:30.860 --> 27:32.520]  And it said that in the article.
[27:33.000 --> 27:35.460]  And it was like fascinating to read.
[27:35.640 --> 27:40.800]  It's like... It was like basically they... The other side, the corporations are shooting blanks.
[27:41.400 --> 27:50.020]  And they... I think they took this site to Sweden because of the court, if they're paying their lawyers well, and I'm sure they are, they thought they might win it there.
[27:50.020 --> 27:50.940]  Whereas in the U.S.
[27:51.100 --> 28:02.040]  courts, based on the fact that it's simply a mediator site, meaning they are not handling any intellectual property themselves, they knew they might win in Sweden, whereas they'd get thrown out in the States.
[28:02.820 --> 28:04.260]  So maybe they should come to the States.
[28:04.500 --> 28:07.240]  Well, no, they're trying... What they're trying to do is set precedent.
[28:07.460 --> 28:07.920]  Right, of course.
[28:07.920 --> 28:08.280]  You understand?
[28:08.660 --> 28:08.720]  Yeah.
[28:09.020 --> 28:14.960]  And so basically, what's interesting is it makes you aware of how we're basically... The Internet is the Wild West.
[28:15.220 --> 28:16.500]  This is the beginning.
[28:16.740 --> 28:22.660]  And it's fascinating that you don't realize how much of the Wild West it is until you read something like that.
[28:22.720 --> 28:33.600]  And you realize that these corporate guys, when it comes to intellectual property, it's like there's a whole new whatever in town, and it's a whole new game.
[28:33.620 --> 28:36.240]  And it's just really fascinating when you think about it.
[28:36.240 --> 28:36.240]  Right.
[28:36.300 --> 28:44.200]  And also, we have as much control, as much potential of determining the path that we wind up going down for centuries to come.
[28:44.940 --> 28:45.340]  Exactly.
[28:45.620 --> 28:46.420]  If we speak up.
[28:46.520 --> 28:47.820]  If we speak up and we actually...
[28:47.820 --> 28:52.580]  Also, if you keep doing what those guys were doing, it's like they were saying, we're not going to stop the site.
[28:52.760 --> 28:55.240]  We're not going to give you a penny.
[28:56.140 --> 28:59.240]  And they're not going to stop doing what they're doing.
[28:59.500 --> 29:06.880]  And I was just... If you get into this kind of thing, if you have a touring site, whatever, you know exactly what you're doing.
[29:07.060 --> 29:07.960]  And you really are.
[29:08.600 --> 29:14.480]  A hundred years from now, you'll be like some Wyatt Earp of the Internet West, you know?
[29:14.880 --> 29:18.740]  And, you know, where those guys are probably just two nerdy schmucks.
[29:18.920 --> 29:20.440]  Forgive my English.
[29:21.000 --> 29:24.680]  And, you know, but a hundred years from now, they'll become heroes.
[29:25.020 --> 29:30.420]  Particularly if what I think is going to happen, as far as intellectual property is concerned, is going to happen.
[29:30.620 --> 29:32.500]  The corporate guys are scared.
[29:32.680 --> 29:35.700]  Because they own the media, you don't realize how scared they are.
[29:35.740 --> 29:51.140]  But if you read between the lines of what's going on out there, they're not telling you a lot, but they don't have a... They're pissing in the... You know, they're really... They don't have a... At this point in time, unless they change the rules, they don't have a hope in hell.
[29:51.740 --> 29:55.480]  While the website might still be up, people are supposed to be going to prison.
[29:55.740 --> 29:58.420]  So, that's a dark side.
[29:58.420 --> 29:59.160]  Who's going to prison?
[29:59.260 --> 30:00.660]  And what are they going to prison for?
[30:00.760 --> 30:06.100]  They suspend... They... Even though they've been sentenced to prison, that's their punishment.
[30:06.360 --> 30:08.480]  They haven't, like... Oh, you mean the owners of the site?
[30:08.540 --> 30:10.180]  Yeah, but... Yeah, no, I know.
[30:10.280 --> 30:11.640]  In Sweden, they're going to prison.
[30:11.860 --> 30:21.220]  But what they... But the site's still running, because as you said earlier, and I didn't know this, but I assumed it, is they've got servers all over creation now.
[30:21.760 --> 30:26.700]  You know, other people are running that site in other jurisdictions, other countries.
[30:27.480 --> 30:33.640]  And there's... You know, they don't have... They don't have any authority over them.
[30:33.920 --> 30:35.140]  You know, this is funny.
[30:35.280 --> 30:41.760]  You read about all these countries and how they're trying to clamp down on internet security privacy.
[30:42.260 --> 30:45.380]  You know, how they're trying to take it away from us and all that stuff.
[30:45.760 --> 30:52.520]  But when it comes down to it, when you release the internet, when you created it, it's like you created the wind or gravity.
[30:52.760 --> 30:53.980]  It's out of your control.
[30:53.980 --> 30:57.860]  Because anybody with a server is on the internet.
[30:58.100 --> 30:59.920]  And you could... There's a million things you can do.
[31:01.120 --> 31:03.960]  Well, a lot of people talk about how hard it is to censor on the internet.
[31:04.740 --> 31:12.080]  There's a very likely possibility that what the governments will generally try to do is just get the ISPs to...
[31:13.320 --> 31:17.140]  block websites out, like they've already been doing in certain countries against the pirate bay.
[31:17.200 --> 31:19.820]  But at the same time, technology is changing every day.
[31:19.940 --> 31:22.480]  It might seem to be changing for the corporate guy.
[31:22.480 --> 31:24.340]  It's also changing for the little guy.
[31:25.820 --> 31:27.840]  Meaning things are always being creative.
[31:28.420 --> 31:28.560]  Mm-hmm.
[31:29.820 --> 31:30.700]  All right, listen, thanks for your call.
[31:30.980 --> 31:31.240]  Uh-huh.
[31:31.520 --> 31:31.820]  All right.
[31:32.020 --> 31:35.420]  And we'll be following this story, obviously, for however long it takes to resolve.
[31:35.700 --> 31:36.060]  Fascinating.
[31:36.180 --> 31:37.540]  What's the actual URL for Pirate Day?
[31:38.560 --> 31:39.900]  Piratebay.org.
[31:40.040 --> 31:40.780]  One person, please.
[31:41.360 --> 31:41.820]  Go ahead, Mike.
[31:42.260 --> 31:43.500]  The Pirate Bay.org.
[31:43.600 --> 31:44.460]  The Pirate Bay.org.
[31:44.720 --> 31:45.080]  Okay.
[31:45.220 --> 31:47.280]  Without the... Without the... Without the...
[31:47.280 --> 31:48.900]  With the... With the... Okay.
[31:49.520 --> 31:50.740]  The Pirate Bay.org.
[31:50.900 --> 31:51.080]  Okay.
[31:51.220 --> 31:51.380]  Yeah.
[31:51.620 --> 31:52.920]  Very... I think either works.
[31:53.040 --> 31:53.140]  Yeah.
[31:53.380 --> 31:53.620]  Really?
[31:53.800 --> 31:53.920]  Yeah.
[31:53.920 --> 31:55.140]  They're both in my history.
[31:55.380 --> 31:58.220]  You know what amazes me is that Flickr.com does not go to Flickr.
[31:58.320 --> 32:00.780]  You know, if you spell it right, it still goes somewhere else.
[32:00.920 --> 32:02.800]  Does it... Is it because it wants WWW first?
[32:02.980 --> 32:03.320]  No, no.
[32:03.480 --> 32:05.120]  Someone else owns Flickr with an E.
[32:05.720 --> 32:06.560]  Someone else owns that.
[32:06.740 --> 32:09.980]  And I... You know, everyone says, have you seen my pictures on Flickr?
[32:10.520 --> 32:13.800]  And everyone has just assumed that they're going to spell it wrong to get it right.
[32:14.260 --> 32:19.020]  But I wonder how many people out there are trying to get to Flickr, but never do because they don't know they're supposed to spell it wrong.
[32:19.460 --> 32:19.660]  You know?
[32:20.300 --> 32:22.960]  Flickr just bought flick.kr, if that makes you happy.
[32:23.080 --> 32:23.700]  That doesn't.
[32:23.820 --> 32:24.360]  Not at all.
[32:24.560 --> 32:25.200]  And good evening.
[32:25.340 --> 32:26.000]  You're on Off the Hook.
[32:26.980 --> 32:27.460]  Hello.
[32:27.740 --> 32:27.900]  Hi.
[32:28.580 --> 32:37.140]  I was wondering if you've covered the story of the Kindle Book Reader and the Authors' Guild and the groups that are opposing them.
[32:37.320 --> 32:42.680]  You're talking about the speech-synthesized versions of books or something like that?
[32:42.920 --> 32:43.100]  Yes.
[32:43.100 --> 32:44.640]  Yeah, that's an interesting case.
[32:44.800 --> 32:53.240]  That's something the Authors' Guild was all in a tizzy about this, the fact that Kindle was automatically able to read books in some kind of computer voice.
[32:53.460 --> 32:53.840]  Yeah.
[32:53.860 --> 33:07.280]  And they wanted it to be seen as a new medium, a new way of actually presenting the book when in actuality it just simply was taking an existing copy that you already had and just using it in a different way.
[33:08.360 --> 33:12.920]  Because the device, the Kindle has the ability to do that.
[33:13.300 --> 33:13.420]  Right.
[33:13.660 --> 33:21.800]  So they want to, they want, the Authors' Guild wants to be able to have that turned off when any author requests it.
[33:21.960 --> 33:22.140]  Yeah.
[33:22.360 --> 33:24.400]  I'm a member of the Authors' Guild and I think that's absurd.
[33:25.340 --> 33:28.900]  You know, I think it, getting, getting books out to people is what you, what it should be all about.
[33:29.080 --> 33:38.720]  And certainly something like this where someone's already bought the book in the first place, they have every right to do, to listen to it if they want to, or to read it upside down, or it's, it's just basically, it's content control.
[33:39.060 --> 33:41.200]  And I, I, I don't like that at all.
[33:41.500 --> 33:44.520]  I'm very glad you know about it, and I'm very glad you're supporting us.
[33:44.740 --> 33:45.100]  Absolutely.
[33:45.280 --> 33:46.080]  Oh, who, who is us?
[33:46.620 --> 33:48.520]  Uh, the National Federation of the Blind.
[33:48.800 --> 33:49.280]  Ah, good.
[33:49.340 --> 33:50.100]  I'm a member of that organization.
[33:50.420 --> 33:51.720]  Did you guys have a protest recently?
[33:52.100 --> 33:52.460]  Yes.
[33:52.720 --> 33:53.920]  Uh, at the Authors' Guild.
[33:54.800 --> 33:55.560]  Tell us about the protest.
[33:56.020 --> 33:58.740]  Oh, there was a, there were a lot of people there.
[33:58.920 --> 33:59.740]  I, at least a hundred.
[33:59.940 --> 34:03.580]  There were people from Maryland, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts.
[34:04.100 --> 34:04.340]  Wow.
[34:04.600 --> 34:07.200]  As well as here, people came from the whole Northeast.
[34:07.760 --> 34:08.100]  Mm-hmm.
[34:08.330 --> 34:10.660]  And, um, there were a lot of groups there.
[34:10.760 --> 34:24.190]  There were, um, physically disabled, and, and people, you know, with dyslexia and other disabilities besides blindness, but, um... I know the Authors' Guild was, felt really terrible, knowing all those people were outside protesting, and they, they were trying to save face.
[34:24.250 --> 34:24.750]  I know that.
[34:24.960 --> 34:28.890]  They said they were not going to budge a bit, and that they weren't frightened by our appearance.
[34:29.020 --> 34:31.580]  Oh, that, yeah, I guess they had two spokespeople with different attitudes.
[34:31.910 --> 34:32.350]  Go ahead, Gus.
[34:32.480 --> 34:39.910]  I'm just wondering if you, uh, do you have anything more you want to talk about, uh, about the, the things that you're requesting, and do you have a URL for, uh, your, for the organization?
[34:40.500 --> 34:56.580]  Uh, I wasn't, I don't have a URL for the, for the petition, because I, uh, I wasn't expecting this, as, just as, you weren't expecting to be on, I was expecting to, listening to, um, Ava Morales, uh, as I wasn't able to make it up there.
[34:56.730 --> 34:56.960]  Yes.
[34:57.480 --> 34:59.450]  So, um, uh, but, um...
[34:59.450 --> 35:01.170]  Well, your organization's name is what again?
[35:01.310 --> 35:02.790]  National Federation of the Blind.
[35:02.890 --> 35:04.430]  Okay, so just plug that into Google, I'm sure.
[35:04.670 --> 35:05.930]  Yes, that's nfb.org.
[35:06.060 --> 35:06.850]  That's easy to find.
[35:06.870 --> 35:07.100]  Okay.
[35:07.450 --> 35:07.950]  All right, great.
[35:08.190 --> 35:11.020]  Well, good luck, and, uh, of course, we'll be keeping people updated on that as well.
[35:11.410 --> 35:11.910]  Okay, great.
[35:12.100 --> 35:12.310]  Thanks.
[35:12.310 --> 35:12.540]  Thank you.
[35:12.750 --> 35:12.870]  Bye.
[35:13.060 --> 35:16.370]  If I remember the story correctly, Amazon just pretty much caved on this issue.
[35:16.560 --> 35:16.790]  Uh-huh.
[35:16.810 --> 35:25.170]  They agreed to let publishers turn off the text-to-speech, uh, which, uh, which sucks for blind people, as well as people who just like computers to read to them.
[35:25.310 --> 35:26.580]  But it's not, it's not finished.
[35:26.790 --> 35:27.430]  It's not finished.
[35:27.480 --> 35:27.790]  Of course not.
[35:27.810 --> 35:32.450]  Of course, the Kindle is already encumbered with all their forms of, uh, digital restrictions management.
[35:32.870 --> 35:34.810]  But, uh, you know, one more.
[35:35.190 --> 35:35.450]  Mm-hmm.
[35:35.850 --> 35:37.170]  Yeah, it's all about controlling.
[35:37.370 --> 35:43.100]  You know, you get a DVD, you get a CD, you even get a book, and, uh, you don't own the rights to it.
[35:43.230 --> 35:50.270]  You, you, you can only read it once, maybe, or you can only read it in certain situations, or you can only watch your DVD in a particular television set.
[35:50.560 --> 35:51.710]  It's, it's nonsense.
[35:52.270 --> 36:01.290]  And, uh, you know, it's, it's basically the whole, uh, um, the whole digital, uh, Millennium Copyright Act, uh, thing extended into all different, all different forms of media.
[36:01.430 --> 36:01.640]  Voltaire.
[36:01.890 --> 36:10.930]  Um, the website is, uh, reading, reading, readingrights.org, and, um, it's been blogged about by the EFF, and it's the Coalition of... It's been what by the EFF?
[36:11.080 --> 36:12.600]  Uh, the EFF talked about it.
[36:12.830 --> 36:13.080]  Okay.
[36:13.210 --> 36:21.750]  Back before it came out, but it had, it's like 22 different groups, disability groups, and also, like, um, like, pro-civil liberties groups, especially with technology.
[36:21.910 --> 36:23.040]  Yeah, everyone's fighting these battles.
[36:23.350 --> 36:24.980]  It's not just, uh, the hacker world.
[36:25.060 --> 36:25.950]  It's not just the computer world.
[36:26.040 --> 36:28.870]  It's, it affects everybody, and it's, it's good to see people waking up.
[36:29.500 --> 36:30.790]  Okay, let's take another phone call.
[36:30.960 --> 36:32.310]  212-209-2900.
[36:32.620 --> 36:33.140]  Good evening.
[36:33.370 --> 36:34.020]  You're on Off the Hook?
[36:34.960 --> 36:35.370]  Yes.
[36:35.600 --> 36:38.270]  The next time you're in Cleveland, you gotta go to Coventry.
[36:38.960 --> 36:39.370]  Coventry?
[36:39.930 --> 36:40.330]  Coventry.
[36:40.430 --> 36:41.850]  What is... It's a neighborhood.
[36:42.120 --> 36:42.930]  It's by Little Italy.
[36:43.870 --> 36:49.640]  And, uh, Tommy's in Coventry has the best milkshakes between the Hudson River and the Mississippi River.
[36:49.810 --> 36:50.100]  Really?
[36:50.390 --> 36:50.640]  Okay.
[36:50.830 --> 36:51.310]  That's where you gotta go.
[36:51.450 --> 36:54.690]  We, uh, we walked down some road to get to East 4th Street.
[36:54.810 --> 36:55.890]  Where, where does it compare to that?
[36:57.120 --> 36:59.390]  Uh, you know, just Google map it when you're there.
[36:59.460 --> 36:59.910]  You're hackers.
[37:00.170 --> 37:00.580]  Google map it.
[37:00.600 --> 37:01.080]  Well, okay.
[37:01.230 --> 37:02.230]  Yeah, but I figured you were there.
[37:02.330 --> 37:03.040]  You might be able to tell me.
[37:03.290 --> 37:04.640]  Well, I'm not, I'm not there right now.
[37:04.830 --> 37:06.430]  I'm in Brooklyn now, but I used to live there.
[37:06.710 --> 37:06.790]  Uh-huh.
[37:06.910 --> 37:07.670]  Now, let me ask you this.
[37:08.040 --> 37:16.500]  Um, apparently there's some computers in the, uh, in the UK and the US government that have been, uh, found to be in the whole botnet net.
[37:17.080 --> 37:20.890]  So, uh, I was wondering if you have a take on that or if we should care about that.
[37:21.460 --> 37:23.710]  And then... Which, which botnet in particular?
[37:23.950 --> 37:23.950]  Yeah.
[37:24.040 --> 37:24.500]  There's a number of things.
[37:24.500 --> 37:25.640]  The Ukraine botnet.
[37:25.910 --> 37:26.040]  Ooh.
[37:26.040 --> 37:28.370]  It was just on the, um, BBC today.
[37:28.600 --> 37:28.950]  Uh-huh.
[37:29.080 --> 37:31.230]  Botnet and snares government PCs.
[37:32.310 --> 37:38.170]  Around two million PCs globally, including machines that the UK and US government departments have been taken over by malicious hackers.
[37:38.810 --> 37:39.980]  Yeah, malicious hackers.
[37:40.190 --> 37:41.580]  That's... Yeah, that's like the headline every week.
[37:41.710 --> 37:41.870]  Yeah.
[37:41.980 --> 37:43.910]  Every, every week malicious hackers do something else.
[37:43.910 --> 37:48.020]  And it's usually because somebody did something stupid to their machine and left it wide open.
[37:48.640 --> 37:49.750]  Uh, I haven't heard the story myself.
[37:49.910 --> 37:50.520]  Mike, did you find it?
[37:50.930 --> 37:51.170]  No.
[37:51.370 --> 37:51.540]  Okay.
[37:51.540 --> 37:52.580]  I'm looking for Cleveland.
[37:52.960 --> 37:53.640]  You're looking for Cleveland?
[37:53.770 --> 37:54.350]  Forget Cleveland.
[37:54.450 --> 37:55.230]  Coventry Cleveland.
[37:55.390 --> 37:55.870]  I'm looking for it.
[37:55.870 --> 37:56.540]  We're past Cleveland.
[37:56.540 --> 38:04.390]  Usually when I see stories like this, I'd recommend, uh, going on to Bruce Schneier's blog because they'll like tell you, he's just like debunked all the, uh, hype and stuff.
[38:04.450 --> 38:05.600]  Well, how do you get to Bruce Schneier's blog?
[38:05.690 --> 38:06.830]  I don't know how to spell that last name.
[38:06.830 --> 38:07.330]  It's German.
[38:07.580 --> 38:09.350]  S-C-H-N-E-I-E-R.
[38:09.460 --> 38:09.580]  There.
[38:09.790 --> 38:09.980]  Yeah.
[38:10.060 --> 38:10.580]  Google that.
[38:10.980 --> 38:12.020]  Yeah, but, oh, never mind.
[38:13.170 --> 38:14.640]  I'm sorry.
[38:14.770 --> 38:15.100]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[38:15.850 --> 38:20.980]  Uh, or more easily to find Bruce Schneier's blog, just, uh, just do a search for cryptogram.
[38:21.450 --> 38:22.270]  That's the name of his newsletter.
[38:22.450 --> 38:22.670]  Okay.
[38:23.060 --> 38:26.410]  And it is, it's an amazing newsletter and, uh, he's an amazing writer.
[38:27.060 --> 38:28.120]  Uh, anything else, uh, caller?
[38:28.350 --> 38:30.330]  One question about the pirate bay.
[38:30.500 --> 38:37.230]  I know they don't host the actual media files or whatever, but did they host the torrent files or those also hosted somewhere else?
[38:37.350 --> 38:48.040]  They do host the torrent files, which are not themselves media, which are not themselves media, but, uh, contain sort of metadata about where to, uh, where and how to get the media.
[38:48.270 --> 38:54.430]  Is that ultimately what, what hooked these guys is that they were hosting these metadata files?
[38:54.640 --> 38:55.950]  I can't imagine that helped.
[38:56.410 --> 38:56.730]  Yeah.
[38:56.850 --> 39:03.210]  I mean, it's a Swedish, uh, court decision, which I haven't read, presumably because it's in Swedish, but, uh, I think they translated it.
[39:03.290 --> 39:04.120]  We just have that time.
[39:04.370 --> 39:04.370]  You know what?
[39:04.370 --> 39:05.040]  Have some standards, okay?
[39:05.290 --> 39:05.890]  Learn Swedish.
[39:06.310 --> 39:06.770]  Come on.
[39:07.230 --> 39:09.120]  If it were that easy, believe me, I would have.
[39:09.560 --> 39:09.870]  All right.
[39:09.960 --> 39:10.270]  All right.
[39:10.480 --> 39:10.640]  Thanks.
[39:10.710 --> 39:12.950]  Thanks for your call and for the helpful information about Cleveland.
[39:13.100 --> 39:13.850]  Maybe, maybe next time.
[39:13.930 --> 39:15.270]  Bernie, did you ever hear about that part of Cleveland?
[39:16.310 --> 39:16.960]  No, I hadn't.
[39:17.040 --> 39:19.230]  I mean, I saw it on a map, but I didn't know it had milkshakes there.
[39:19.290 --> 39:20.600]  I know they had little Italy there either.
[39:20.850 --> 39:23.600]  It must be really little because I don't think anybody knows about it.
[39:24.410 --> 39:25.890]  Uh, but, uh, no, we had fun.
[39:26.020 --> 39:26.250]  We did.
[39:26.430 --> 39:28.060]  We, we wandered around as much as we could.
[39:28.410 --> 39:29.020]  Good evening.
[39:29.060 --> 39:30.190]  You're on off the hook.
[39:30.540 --> 39:31.580]  Hi, it's Sandra.
[39:32.250 --> 39:34.000]  I'm glad you got that Kindle call.
[39:34.210 --> 39:40.270]  I was trying to explain, uh, the disability point of view to an author relative.
[39:41.000 --> 39:43.460]  Um, I just called with a quick question.
[39:43.640 --> 39:44.290]  How's Jim?
[39:44.540 --> 39:45.480]  And I'll listen off the air.
[39:45.670 --> 39:45.870]  Bye.
[39:45.870 --> 39:46.410]  Okay.
[39:47.060 --> 39:48.060]  Uh, Jim's doing well.
[39:48.210 --> 39:54.730]  He's, he's, he's here with us right now and, uh, we're working on getting him, uh, getting him more, uh, speech therapy so that he recovers more.
[39:54.830 --> 40:00.080]  But I think, uh, I think many people notice that he's, um, he's more and more his old self with every passing week.
[40:00.730 --> 40:00.950]  Yeah.
[40:02.330 --> 40:03.980]  And, uh, we, uh, Emmanuel.
[40:04.190 --> 40:04.370]  Yes.
[40:04.640 --> 40:08.910]  I wanted to mention that Jim had, uh, I just got a couple of emails from Jim over the past couple of weeks.
[40:09.040 --> 40:10.580]  Jim, have you been sent, you've been sending email, huh?
[40:10.670 --> 40:11.080]  Yeah, yeah.
[40:11.080 --> 40:11.750]  Oh, okay.
[40:12.520 --> 40:31.850]  And, uh, Jim is interested in, uh, uh, us, uh, helping him get set up with the, uh, New York State, uh, Relay Service, which is a service where there are live, uh, human operators who do a translation between, uh, uh, speaking people and people who have T,
[40:32.060 --> 40:37.170]  uh, TDYs or TDDs, uh, which are basically little keyboard devices you hook up to a phone line.
[40:37.960 --> 40:42.640]  And then someone who's, uh, who's dealing with some speech issues, uh, can, can, uh, type messages.
[40:42.830 --> 40:50.230]  And then those messages appear to a, uh, speaking, uh, operator who then reads them to the person on the other end of the line and, and vice versa.
[40:50.560 --> 41:04.460]  So, well, we're working on, uh, getting Jim a phone line and a, uh, uh, uh, I spoke with Leo and, uh, and a couple other people at the, uh, at the Nauticon who, uh, can, uh, perhaps provide a, uh, portable TDD.
[41:04.770 --> 41:05.790]  So, Jim, we're working on that.
[41:06.290 --> 41:10.580]  And, um, it'd be great, uh, it's, it's, you know, people would say, what's the point of that when you have email?
[41:10.710 --> 41:12.000]  Well, not everybody uses email.
[41:12.190 --> 41:16.410]  Like, uh, Jim has family members that don't use a computer in email.
[41:16.580 --> 41:25.100]  Uh, and it would be nice if he could converse with those people, um, as he's, uh, as he's building up his, uh, speech again, if he could converse with them using the New York State Relay Service.
[41:25.310 --> 41:30.020]  This is one of the things that the federal taxes that you see on your phone bill, uh, goes to help pay for.
[41:30.210 --> 41:37.210]  Not that all those taxes are legitimate, but one of them, uh, each state has to provide a, uh, a relay service for this purpose.
[41:37.350 --> 41:39.390]  And that's, uh, I think that's actual good use of taxes.
[41:40.100 --> 41:40.460]  Okay.
[41:41.100 --> 41:46.460]  Uh, we'll keep people updated as to, uh, how Jim's doing and, uh, other things that, that we could use, uh, to help that.
[41:46.640 --> 41:47.830]  Uh, Mitch Altman, you're here.
[41:48.000 --> 41:49.480]  You've bounced into the studio.
[41:49.950 --> 41:51.410]  Yeah, just ran in from the subway.
[41:51.730 --> 41:51.980]  Uh-huh.
[41:52.790 --> 41:53.140]  Wow.
[41:53.310 --> 41:53.690]  Well, good.
[41:53.750 --> 41:54.500]  I didn't know you were in town.
[41:54.770 --> 42:00.850]  Yeah, I'm here teaching a bunch of, uh, high school kids with disabilities, uh, how to make cool things with microcontrollers.
[42:01.000 --> 42:01.600]  Wow, that's so cool.
[42:01.870 --> 42:02.390]  Yeah, it's been a lot of fun.
[42:02.390 --> 42:05.690]  We should have a theme of, uh, of, uh, helping people with disabilities tonight.
[42:06.040 --> 42:07.670]  And that's, that's great that you're in town for that.
[42:08.450 --> 42:11.690]  Um, and, uh, how, uh, is that going on for a long period of time?
[42:11.980 --> 42:13.350]  Yeah, I'm here for a week doing that.
[42:13.560 --> 42:13.790]  Uh-huh.
[42:14.210 --> 42:20.330]  Um, yeah, following on, uh, the setting up the hardware hacking area at, uh, Nauticon, which I guess you mentioned earlier.
[42:20.350 --> 42:27.480]  Yeah, and you were also at Nauticon, too, and, uh, causing quite a bit of trouble with the TV Begons and or his other... Quite a bit of peace in Cleveland.
[42:28.120 --> 42:28.330]  Yeah.
[42:28.480 --> 42:28.950]  Hey, Mitch.
[42:29.710 --> 42:33.810]  Yeah, he doesn't have headphones on, but, uh, I can, I can really... Yeah, I can hear you, Bernie.
[42:33.960 --> 42:34.290]  All right, go ahead.
[42:34.410 --> 42:34.770]  Talk loud.
[42:35.060 --> 42:38.950]  Mitch, uh, can you tell us a little bit more about this workshop you're doing in New York, uh, with the kids?
[42:39.790 --> 42:57.960]  Well, I, um, teaching people of all ages, uh, from middle school on up through high school, and they have all sorts of, uh, learning disabilities that keep them from doing well in regular high schools, um, and middle schools, so this school exists for helping them,
[42:58.750 --> 43:01.080]  um, and a pretty amazing group of kids.
[43:01.270 --> 43:15.730]  One of the, the things that's difficult for kids with learning disabilities is, um, they get bullied brutally in high schools, and they have to go to these special rooms, if the special rooms even exist, which make it, makes it look like there's something wrong with them.
[43:15.930 --> 43:34.270]  Um, at this high school, everyone, um, has similar kind of, uh, learning disabilities, anything from Asperger's through, uh, emotional problems to ADHD, and, um, the school exists for, um, providing parents a means of giving their children good education.
[43:34.560 --> 43:42.520]  The New York, uh, school system tries their hardest to keep kids from going there because they have to pay extra to do so.
[43:42.880 --> 43:50.860]  Uh, so one of the benefits of that, however, is that all the kids there have their parents really rooting for them being part of their education.
[43:50.920 --> 43:54.270]  So all the kids there have a really good, uh, head start that way.
[43:54.500 --> 44:05.250]  So even though, uh, it's kind of pandemonium when someone can't find the right resistor, uh, they're really motivated, and all you have to do is focus them, uh, again, and they're just cruising.
[44:05.600 --> 44:13.980]  I've had almost everyone finish their projects, uh, well, so today, within a few blocks of, uh, the school in Chelsea, every TV was off.
[44:15.400 --> 44:16.860]  A sure sign of progress.
[44:17.400 --> 44:19.380]  And now, uh, Mitch, what, what are you working on in the future?
[44:19.460 --> 44:21.580]  Any, uh, any projects or events that you'll be at?
[44:22.210 --> 44:25.060]  Uh, this weekend, I'll be at the Cyber Arts Festival in Boston.
[44:25.420 --> 44:31.800]  I'll be giving a talk about, um, uh, sort of hacking your life, or fun and profit is what I'm calling it.
[44:31.940 --> 44:38.750]  Using my life as an example of how to go from being a depressed blob of a kid to someone who actually loves their life.
[44:39.440 --> 44:45.750]  And, um, you know, giving stories about TV Be Gone and how that happened, how that changed my life and provided me a living that I really enjoy.
[44:45.960 --> 44:48.600]  A depressed blob of a kid, that's quite an image.
[44:48.840 --> 44:51.020]  Oh, I was really, really, uh, not a happy site.
[44:51.210 --> 44:51.540]  Wow.
[44:51.840 --> 44:53.670]  And, uh, you're gonna be at, uh, the Maker Faire.
[44:54.250 --> 44:56.670]  Yeah, so, uh, I'm on six weeks of travel.
[44:56.920 --> 45:03.640]  Uh, after here, I'm gonna go to Chicago and give a workshop at Pumping Station One, a brand new hackerspace in Chicago.
[45:03.880 --> 45:06.230]  It'll be the first event there in their new space.
[45:06.540 --> 45:15.730]  And then I'll go to the, uh, Cowtown Computer Club in Kansas City, where they actually have a cave, a real cave, that was vacated by the NSA.
[45:16.500 --> 45:17.540]  Uh, new hackerspace there.
[45:17.770 --> 45:18.250]  Wait, whoa, stop, stop, stop, stop.
[45:18.400 --> 45:19.230]  The NSA is in caves?
[45:19.300 --> 45:19.520]  What?
[45:20.080 --> 45:21.900]  A cave abandoned by the NSA?
[45:22.300 --> 45:27.670]  Yeah, evidently the, the NSA does have, or had at least one cave with an elevator.
[45:28.520 --> 45:31.230]  Um, what did they do with this cave exactly?
[45:31.230 --> 45:33.100]  Is, is Batman there as well or something?
[45:33.620 --> 45:36.820]  I mean, it really sounds like this is a made-up story, a cave.
[45:37.040 --> 45:38.080]  NSA, the people...
[45:38.080 --> 45:40.040]  Could I, I don't know how to make stuff like this up.
[45:40.270 --> 45:42.340]  No, but you're, you're doing a good job.
[45:43.380 --> 45:48.420]  So, the Cowtown Computer Club is a new hacker club, uh, hackerspace in Kansas City.
[45:48.960 --> 45:49.060]  Uh-huh.
[45:49.060 --> 45:54.270]  And, uh, they actually are in a cave that was inhabited by NSA folks.
[45:54.710 --> 45:54.880]  Gus?
[45:55.020 --> 45:57.580]  This is not the only one, this is not the only thing like this that we've heard of, though.
[45:57.580 --> 46:01.800]  There's also that, uh, hacker conference going on out in Washington, which is also in an abandoned...
[46:01.800 --> 46:03.000]  Was that, that was military?
[46:03.000 --> 46:04.290]  That was a, yeah, a missile silo.
[46:04.420 --> 46:05.380]  A missile silo, that's nothing.
[46:05.520 --> 46:08.770]  That's compared to, uh, an NSA cave.
[46:08.960 --> 46:10.190]  I mean, I didn't know those things existed.
[46:10.960 --> 46:12.670]  I wonder what happened when they didn't abandon it.
[46:12.670 --> 46:18.750]  Well, when, when, uh, our ex-vice president was in an undisclosed, uh, location, where do you think it was?
[46:19.730 --> 46:20.290]  I don't know.
[46:20.360 --> 46:21.800]  I thought it was in his own basement or something.
[46:22.060 --> 46:22.730]  Yeah, who knows?
[46:22.730 --> 46:25.060]  I mean, he blotted out his house on Google Maps, so...
[46:25.060 --> 46:26.920]  But anyways, I'll be doing a workshop there.
[46:27.080 --> 46:27.300]  Uh-huh.
[46:27.420 --> 46:31.940]  And, uh, so Kansas City will have some peace in the form of off-TVs as well.
[46:33.360 --> 46:35.540]  Okay, and then, uh, the Bay Area is a combination.
[46:35.840 --> 46:38.440]  And then Tokyo, the first Japan Maker Faire.
[46:38.600 --> 46:38.800]  Okay.
[46:38.980 --> 46:40.640]  And then I'll be home just in time.
[46:40.640 --> 46:43.540]  And also, there's, uh, gonna be the first bar camp in Tokyo.
[46:43.940 --> 46:44.580]  What's a bar camp?
[46:44.790 --> 46:51.900]  Bar camp, um, well, I think that was an answer to Fu Camp, which was by invitation only by, uh, O'Reilly, which puts on Maker Faires.
[46:51.900 --> 46:52.290]  Okay.
[46:52.600 --> 46:57.820]  Um, but people made a more open version of that, where anyone's allowed to come, and it's held in bars.
[46:58.040 --> 46:58.620]  And they have bars.
[46:58.750 --> 46:59.380]  Okay, that's good.
[46:59.520 --> 47:03.790]  Yeah, but this one, O'Reilly, Japan, is actually being part of it and supporting it.
[47:03.860 --> 47:06.250]  And, uh, there should be a lot of interesting folks there.
[47:06.730 --> 47:10.170]  There's also a, uh, a design, um, fest.
[47:10.440 --> 47:15.270]  A design festa, I think they call it in Tokyo, happening, and I can't help but check that out.
[47:15.400 --> 47:15.600]  Okay.
[47:15.750 --> 47:19.960]  As well as go to the part of town, uh, that sells all sorts of electronic parts.
[47:20.700 --> 47:22.670]  Yes, that's a, that's a good part of town, I've been there.
[47:22.730 --> 47:25.250]  Yeah, uh, and I can't, uh, remember the exact name.
[47:25.360 --> 47:28.690]  I can never remember those Japanese names, but everybody who's been there knows what we're talking about.
[47:28.750 --> 47:29.980]  Yeah, I'll find it, I'll ask someone.
[47:30.270 --> 47:34.250]  All right, well, you have, uh, you have quite a, quite an agenda ahead of you, and, uh, I envy that.
[47:34.520 --> 47:38.480]  Yeah, I'll be home just in time with tons of jet lag to set up for the San Francisco Maker Faire.
[47:38.620 --> 47:39.620]  Okay, when is that?
[47:40.100 --> 47:43.440]  We're expecting 70,000 people on May 30th and 31st.
[47:43.440 --> 47:45.440]  Oh boy, that's something else.
[47:45.580 --> 47:46.580]  And now, Kevin, you're going to be there too, right?
[47:46.600 --> 47:47.300]  I will be there.
[47:47.360 --> 47:48.580]  Wow, all right.
[47:49.500 --> 47:54.000]  Well, okay, so there's a whole lot of activity coming up in the hacker and technical world.
[47:54.480 --> 47:56.120]  Um, okay, let's take some more phone calls.
[47:56.210 --> 47:57.560]  212-229-2900.
[47:57.710 --> 47:59.100]  All right, Kevin, you want to try again?
[47:59.120 --> 47:59.730]  One more time.
[47:59.860 --> 48:01.710]  All right, give you another chance.
[48:01.710 --> 48:04.120]  Everyone deserves a second, second chance.
[48:04.290 --> 48:05.140]  Good evening, you're on the air.
[48:06.120 --> 48:07.140]  Hello guys, how you doing?
[48:07.290 --> 48:07.980]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[48:08.460 --> 48:09.820]  All right, two fast questions.
[48:10.000 --> 48:12.210]  One about caller ID spoofing.
[48:12.210 --> 48:13.620]  I'll tell you briefly what happened.
[48:14.000 --> 48:24.670]  Um, after midnight, some nights like during the Bush era, I get a call from my mother-in-law, over 60 year olds, and my father-in-law is over 70, so I get very worried.
[48:24.840 --> 48:27.380]  And I answer fast, what happened, is everything okay?
[48:27.540 --> 48:28.380]  And I get no answer.
[48:29.060 --> 48:32.820]  So I call back right away, only to wake her up.
[48:33.360 --> 48:34.770]  And she asked me, why are you calling?
[48:34.860 --> 48:37.800]  I said, because you just dialed me right a minute ago.
[48:38.020 --> 48:38.730]  She said, no.
[48:38.800 --> 48:39.940]  I said, where's my father-in-law?
[48:40.120 --> 48:41.300]  She said, he's sleeping right here.
[48:42.210 --> 48:46.800]  While I'm on the phone with her, I get a call waiting from her number again.
[48:47.560 --> 48:56.140]  So, can somebody spoof a number that I see it as a certain number like that?
[48:56.270 --> 48:57.120]  Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
[48:57.520 --> 49:00.940]  People do that all the time as jokes, as pranks.
[49:01.100 --> 49:02.690]  You can have the White House call you.
[49:02.800 --> 49:07.620]  You can have your own house call you and have somebody say, hey, I'm in your house right now.
[49:07.820 --> 49:09.060]  It's pretty easy to do.
[49:09.170 --> 49:12.900]  And I would imagine that this is somebody who knows you doing this to you.
[49:12.960 --> 49:17.020]  So if there are any suspects who might want to mess with your head like that, that's the way to look.
[49:17.020 --> 49:21.360]  Also, it could be a cell phone calling Blake by accident, just maybe it's in the pocket or something.
[49:21.750 --> 49:21.900]  Why?
[49:22.080 --> 49:25.080]  Are you saying his mother has a cell phone in her pocket and it's calling while she's sleeping?
[49:25.140 --> 49:27.840]  Well, was it from a landline or a cell line?
[49:28.100 --> 49:29.400]  Was it a cell phone or a landline?
[49:29.900 --> 49:30.620]  No, landline.
[49:30.790 --> 49:31.420]  Okay, I'm sorry.
[49:31.560 --> 49:33.750]  But still, I mean, she was on the phone with him.
[49:33.980 --> 49:36.560]  I don't think she could make that call at the same...
[49:36.560 --> 49:37.790]  It doesn't seem to make sense.
[49:37.790 --> 49:40.270]  But it's available to regular people or...
[49:40.270 --> 49:40.580]  Oh, yeah.
[49:40.790 --> 49:41.900]  Yeah, there's...
[49:41.900 --> 49:42.820]  What's that service called?
[49:43.320 --> 49:43.960]  Spoof Card.
[49:44.210 --> 49:44.500]  Spoof Card.
[49:44.500 --> 49:44.770]  Spoof Card.
[49:45.290 --> 49:45.580]  Yeah.
[49:45.980 --> 49:47.270]  Bernie, do you have a URL for that?
[49:47.360 --> 49:47.920]  Can we find one?
[49:48.420 --> 49:51.060]  I think just spoofcard.com is a service.
[49:51.250 --> 49:52.460]  You can just buy one of these.
[49:52.840 --> 49:59.380]  It's like a calling card, except it's prepaid for so much money, you can make so many minutes of spoofed calls.
[49:59.540 --> 50:02.840]  You call the toll-free number and then it asks you what number you'd like to ask.
[50:02.960 --> 50:10.770]  Not Kevin just threw down a Spoof Card card, and the toll-free number on the back is 1-866-304-8880.
[50:11.230 --> 50:14.960]  And I guess if you call that, they tell you how to go through the whole procedure, right?
[50:15.770 --> 50:17.270]  Should I read your code, too?
[50:17.440 --> 50:17.790]  No.
[50:18.380 --> 50:19.500]  Well, then people can do it.
[50:19.580 --> 50:21.300]  They can, like, you know, play with this themselves.
[50:23.360 --> 50:24.170]  Any other questions?
[50:24.710 --> 50:25.480]  I'm sorry, yes.
[50:25.690 --> 50:33.860]  About the telephone system at WBI, what could be done to make it easier for the engineers and the callers at the same time?
[50:33.900 --> 50:35.100]  You know what's the problem.
[50:35.210 --> 50:45.900]  Yeah, what could be done is for some rich person to donate a real phone system to us so that we can actually not have so many fast busies and dial tones and so that the calls don't hop all over the place and so that they have better sound quality.
[50:46.040 --> 50:46.900]  That's what we need.
[50:47.290 --> 50:48.520]  How much are we talking about?
[50:48.790 --> 50:52.880]  Well, you know, it's weird because I know, Mike, you've had some experience with setting up phone systems.
[50:53.060 --> 50:55.770]  And I'm just astounded by how much these things cost.
[50:55.840 --> 50:57.190]  I think they're a bit overpriced, to be honest.
[50:57.190 --> 51:04.190]  Yeah, and then it's kind of additionally difficult to find a phone system vendor who knows about integrating with the radio.
[51:04.230 --> 51:07.600]  And when you do find one, they want even more money and it just grows.
[51:07.600 --> 51:09.600]  You need somebody who's in the broadcasting business.
[51:09.640 --> 51:19.770]  We're talking tens of thousands of dollars just for a phone system, which is insane, I think, for something that I think can be set up pretty cheaply almost for nothing if you do it right.
[51:19.900 --> 51:25.380]  But again, you have to tie it into the broadcast board somehow, and there's all kinds of other things you've got to keep in mind.
[51:25.560 --> 51:29.270]  So we need somebody who knows what they're doing and somebody who can get access to the right equipment.
[51:29.580 --> 51:30.840]  And those things are very hard to come by.
[51:32.080 --> 51:32.730]  All right, guys.
[51:32.800 --> 51:33.100]  Thank you.
[51:33.210 --> 51:33.690]  Thanks for your call.
[51:33.770 --> 51:34.040]  Voltaire.
[51:34.860 --> 51:44.790]  About the phone spoofing, a website that lets you do it for free is ospenterprises.com.
[51:46.400 --> 51:47.040]  OSP Enterprises?
[51:47.210 --> 51:47.820]  Is that what you're saying?
[51:47.940 --> 51:48.060]  Okay.
[51:48.060 --> 51:55.860]  And the short URL is bit.ly slash JFSNC.
[51:55.980 --> 51:56.600]  Oh, okay.
[51:56.710 --> 51:58.380]  That just rolls off the tongue there.
[51:59.100 --> 51:59.500]  Wonderful.
[52:00.340 --> 52:00.800]  All right.
[52:00.960 --> 52:02.140]  Let's take another phone call.
[52:02.270 --> 52:03.730]  We only have a few minutes left.
[52:03.800 --> 52:05.400]  212-2209-2900.
[52:05.920 --> 52:06.600]  And good evening.
[52:06.600 --> 52:07.730]  You're on off the hook.
[52:07.840 --> 52:08.170]  Okay.
[52:08.270 --> 52:08.790]  I messed up.
[52:08.840 --> 52:09.250]  Go ahead, Kevin.
[52:09.400 --> 52:09.770]  Your turn.
[52:10.600 --> 52:11.800]  I'm going to go lucky number.
[52:12.170 --> 52:12.600]  Go ahead.
[52:12.840 --> 52:13.250]  Seven.
[52:13.640 --> 52:14.140]  All right.
[52:14.210 --> 52:14.520]  Good evening.
[52:14.750 --> 52:15.440]  You're on off...
[52:15.440 --> 52:16.580]  Yeah, that's not your lucky number.
[52:17.190 --> 52:17.880]  Let's go over here.
[52:17.880 --> 52:18.250]  Good evening.
[52:18.400 --> 52:18.960]  You're on off the hook.
[52:19.540 --> 52:20.020]  Wonderful.
[52:20.750 --> 52:21.320]  All right.
[52:21.640 --> 52:21.920]  All right.
[52:21.940 --> 52:22.210]  Hello?
[52:22.380 --> 52:22.440]  Yeah, that's me.
[52:22.560 --> 52:23.000]  Yes, go ahead.
[52:23.880 --> 52:27.560]  Yeah, I've got a question about... Actually, like hackers in the media.
[52:27.710 --> 52:27.940]  Uh-huh.
[52:28.210 --> 52:42.210]  I actually got an email today from a writer at the Sun Sentinel down here in South Florida, and he wants to ask me a few questions, and I guess get a demonstration about wireless security.
[52:42.820 --> 52:53.960]  So at first, it seemed kind of genuine, like you really just wanted to know how easy is it to, you know, intercept data going over a wireless network or something like that.
[52:54.000 --> 52:54.230]  Mm-hmm.
[52:54.300 --> 52:59.560]  So I told him I'd answer some of his questions, and then he follows up with, okay, here's some of my questions.
[53:00.210 --> 53:03.440]  Number one, can you hack into a wireless connection?
[53:03.820 --> 53:04.400]  Oh, boy.
[53:05.300 --> 53:05.670]  Yeah.
[53:06.000 --> 53:06.190]  Yeah.
[53:06.190 --> 53:06.250]  Yeah.
[53:06.400 --> 53:08.620]  Well, I mean, they're out to sell papers.
[53:08.900 --> 53:13.270]  The newspaper industry is dying, so they want whatever kind of sensationalism they can get.
[53:14.670 --> 53:22.120]  You know, you can try and educate him and explain exactly how things work to the best of your knowledge and hope that it works.
[53:22.190 --> 53:26.800]  I mean, I think that's better than not talking to media at all and just assuming they're always going to do the worst thing possible.
[53:28.080 --> 53:44.730]  Well, I'm just... I'm also curious, like, what your response to be with... For example, another question is, what are the more recent internet risks, which is sort of just generic, I have no clue what I, you know, need to write about, so please tell me what I should put in my paper kind of question.
[53:44.900 --> 53:52.300]  But it's so generic, like, what would you say to this guy for what's a current internet risk?
[53:52.440 --> 53:56.400]  I mean, the configure worm is like the thing that pops into my head.
[53:57.020 --> 54:00.500]  But there's so many different threats of different kinds all over the place, so I don't know.
[54:01.250 --> 54:14.190]  I think that's a bit of a complicated thing to figure out because, in my experience, whenever you do try educating the reporter or whoever it is, they say, okay, that's interesting, and they go and talk to somebody else and try to get the answers to the questions they want.
[54:14.190 --> 54:19.100]  If they've already written the story in their mind, they're going to find somebody to verify their hysterical point of view.
[54:19.170 --> 54:24.540]  But you do have the opportunity to maybe convince them otherwise, if you talk to them and you know what you're talking about.
[54:24.540 --> 54:32.670]  Yeah, I always like to refer people to Stephen Levy's book, Hackerish, just because it presents a really good picture of the sort of positive connotations of the word hacker.
[54:33.300 --> 54:38.060]  And then also, I mean, like, if he's really wondering about security risks, yeah, obviously, he's not doing his research.
[54:38.170 --> 54:40.540]  He ought to be looking to somebody who really is an expert on security risks.
[54:40.540 --> 54:44.940]  But the thing is, with reporters, and I've noticed this on almost every subject they talk about, they say, I don't know anything about this.
[54:45.060 --> 54:47.880]  Please educate me as if I'm in sixth grade or something like that.
[54:47.940 --> 54:50.670]  Tell me, tell me, you know, the basics.
[54:51.020 --> 54:52.540]  And they do this for two reasons.
[54:52.670 --> 54:54.750]  One, they really don't know what they're talking about half the time.
[54:54.960 --> 54:58.750]  Two, they realize their readers probably won't understand most of the technical stuff.
[54:58.820 --> 55:02.140]  So they want to have that particular level in their final product.
[55:02.140 --> 55:04.880]  So they'd like for you to be able to explain it on those terms.
[55:05.920 --> 55:13.840]  So, you know, there is still a chance, even though he asked kind of a dim-witted question, that he means well, and he's trying to get the truth out there.
[55:14.640 --> 55:19.250]  So, you know, I would try and guide him as best you can.
[55:19.380 --> 55:20.820]  And there are certain things you can say.
[55:20.900 --> 55:30.940]  Like, for instance, if someone asked me that question, I'd say, well, you know, one of the biggest risks on the internet these days is social networking sites, like Facebook and things like that, where people are willingly giving out all their private information,
[55:31.140 --> 55:38.840]  and then wondering how all their private information got out there, and why there are stalkers and all kinds of creepy people out looking at them now.
[55:39.800 --> 55:40.340]  Things like that.
[55:40.480 --> 55:46.770]  We've lost touch with the things that matter to us, like keeping things private and personal.
[55:47.100 --> 55:48.290]  I mean, that's one thing I would say.
[55:49.580 --> 55:50.060]  Okay.
[55:50.300 --> 55:51.640]  Well, thank you very much.
[55:51.840 --> 55:52.190]  Thanks.
[55:52.320 --> 55:52.480]  Mitch?
[55:53.060 --> 56:10.340]  Yeah, I was recently interviewed about hackerspaces and hackers because I started, one of the people who helped start Noisebridge, a hackerspace in San Francisco, and I met someone at Conference E-Tech in San Jose a few weeks ago, and he turned out to be the senior editor at Wired.com.
[56:10.480 --> 56:16.040]  And he wrote a fantastic article that was very positive about hackers and hackerspaces.
[56:16.880 --> 56:19.750]  Yeah, do a search for that on Google and you'll find that.
[56:19.960 --> 56:25.520]  And also, very recently, there was a fantastic article in the Irish Times about hackerspaces.
[56:26.500 --> 56:27.500]  I think we have Rob T.
[56:27.620 --> 56:28.460]  Firefly to thank for that.
[56:29.290 --> 56:35.120]  That person wrote to us at Off the Hook, and he responded to him and gave him some information, and it worked out really well.
[56:35.250 --> 56:37.270]  So yeah, you can definitely get some good stories out there.
[56:37.420 --> 56:46.100]  Yeah, and there are really good reporters that want to get the word out that there's other aspects to hackers besides the evil one portrayed by the mainstream media.
[56:46.460 --> 56:50.840]  And the Christian Science Monitor is going to run a story by the same guy who did the Irish Times article.
[56:50.840 --> 56:52.020]  It's going to be very positive.
[56:52.230 --> 56:52.900]  Sorry, Bernie, you had something?
[56:53.290 --> 57:08.670]  Yeah, Jason Walsh, I believe, is the name of that Irish reporter who really spent a lot of time interviewing both Mitch and myself about an article about hackerspaces he said he's putting together for the Christian Science Monitor, which is really an excellent newspaper.
[57:09.480 --> 57:18.340]  So there are reporters out there who really care and do some really serious investigative journalism, like some who just have 10 minutes to put a story together.
[57:18.540 --> 57:21.460]  So my hat's off to some reporters who really do a good job.
[57:21.900 --> 57:23.880]  Unfortunately, they are in the minority.
[57:24.120 --> 57:25.690]  Okay, but they are out there, and that's the important thing.
[57:25.800 --> 57:34.250]  Speaking of hackerspaces, one of the features in the new edition of 2600 is a list of hackerspaces in North America this edition, somewhere else next edition.
[57:34.360 --> 57:36.710]  Also, we have a whole list of hacker happenings this year.
[57:36.840 --> 57:39.980]  We ran down a few of them, but there's many more happening this year.
[57:40.460 --> 57:42.360]  The hacker world is exploding with activity.
[57:42.560 --> 57:46.840]  We're out of time, though, and interesting show, considering we had no material whatsoever.
[57:47.020 --> 57:48.980]  A lot of interesting listeners out there.
[57:49.230 --> 57:50.360]  We'll be back again next week.
[57:50.460 --> 57:52.670]  You can write to usoth at 2600.com.
[57:52.820 --> 57:54.300]  Stay tuned for the personal computer show.
[57:54.900 --> 57:55.770]  Have a good night.
[58:12.750 --> 58:13.510]  Mobile phone.
[58:13.510 --> 58:13.510]  Mobile phone.
[58:13.510 --> 58:13.510]  Mobile phone.
[58:13.510 --> 58:13.510]  Mobile phone.
[58:13.510 --> 58:16.150]  Send me a message on my mobile phone.
[58:20.350 --> 58:23.170]  You're always calling, never leave me alone.
[58:27.350 --> 58:31.630]  I've tried to live without you, but I'm never at home.
[58:33.690 --> 58:39.290]  Cause I find myself connected on my mobile phone.
[58:41.030 --> 58:42.950]  Mobile phone.
[58:44.690 --> 58:46.230]  Mobile phone.
[58:48.350 --> 58:49.830]  Mobile phone.
[58:53.120 --> 58:56.090]  The 23rd time that she rang me today.
[58:59.990 --> 59:03.370]  I had the first time, but repeats what she's saying.
[59:07.850 --> 59:09.930]  I wanted to call me.
[59:10.150 --> 59:11.710]  I wanted to call me, but just think when to dial.
[59:13.810 --> 59:19.250]  Cause I find myself connected on my mobile phone.
[59:49.190 --> 59:52.430]  Oh, look, I see another message for me.
[59:56.550 --> 59:59.710]  It's her again and asking how long I'll be.
[01:00:03.910 --> 01:00:04.910]  Yeah.
[01:00:04.910 --> 01:00:08.150]  You know me just left, but something's cooking for you.
[01:00:11.640 --> 01:00:12.720]  Can't taste again.
[01:00:13.240 --> 01:00:14.900]  It's finger licking good.
[01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:19.280]  Mobile phone.
[01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:22.600]  Mobile phone.
[01:00:24.740 --> 01:00:26.120]  Mobile phone.
[01:01:15.200 --> 01:01:16.040]  Whoa.
[01:01:16.040 --> 01:01:16.880]  Yeah.
[01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:19.820]  These guys are off the hook.
[01:01:20.080 --> 01:01:20.720]  All right.