[00:02.250 --> 00:04.350]  What are you listening to?
[00:04.610 --> 00:05.830]  What you were listening to.
[00:06.030 --> 00:08.450]  I don't know what it is.
[00:09.050 --> 00:11.290]  It's WBAI.
[00:12.090 --> 00:13.950]  Wow, sounds weird.
[00:14.930 --> 00:16.690]  Weird, but I like it.
[00:17.930 --> 00:19.310]  I like it.
[00:19.610 --> 00:20.490]  What is it?
[00:20.870 --> 00:22.870]  It's WBAI.
[00:23.330 --> 00:24.250]  I like it.
[00:25.070 --> 00:27.930]  Did you honor your pledge?
[00:28.290 --> 00:29.690]  To go low carb?
[00:30.790 --> 00:33.050]  To send money to WBAI.
[00:33.150 --> 00:34.330]  You mean write a check?
[00:34.510 --> 00:35.790]  Yeah, I mean write a check.
[00:36.030 --> 00:36.650]  I wrote it.
[00:36.790 --> 00:37.610]  Well, now send it.
[00:37.890 --> 00:39.110]  Oh, send it.
[00:42.010 --> 00:43.010]  To WBAI.
[00:43.210 --> 00:44.390]  120 Wall Street.
[00:44.670 --> 00:45.690]  New York, New York.
[00:46.050 --> 00:48.490]  One, triple, zero, five.
[00:49.590 --> 00:50.090]  WBAI.
[00:50.250 --> 00:51.270]  I like it.
[00:51.390 --> 00:51.810]  Yeah!
[00:57.530 --> 00:59.330]  And this is WBAI New York.
[00:59.330 --> 01:00.630]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[01:00.730 --> 01:02.270]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[01:07.200 --> 01:09.200]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:09.440 --> 01:11.700]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:12.620 --> 01:14.680]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:15.220 --> 01:17.260]  Now I can't make a cough.
[01:18.020 --> 01:20.020]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:22.700 --> 01:25.460]  But I best expect the worst.
[01:26.000 --> 01:28.000]  I hope that's understood.
[01:28.000 --> 01:29.040]  One day, let's go.
[02:23.610 --> 02:26.210]  One day, let's go.
[02:28.430 --> 02:31.650]  One day, let's go.
[02:32.510 --> 02:37.450]  One day, let's go.
[02:37.570 --> 02:39.130]  One day, let's go.
[02:41.630 --> 02:43.830]  One day, let's go.
[02:43.830 --> 02:44.410]  One day, let's go.
[02:44.770 --> 02:45.110]  One day, let's go.
[02:45.110 --> 02:46.630]  One day, let's go.
[02:46.630 --> 02:47.270]  One
[02:58.460 --> 02:59.840]  day, let's go.
[03:00.580 --> 03:02.060]  One day, let's go.
[03:02.120 --> 03:02.800]  One day, let's go.
[03:02.800 --> 03:02.900]  One day, let's go.
[03:02.900 --> 03:02.980]  One day, let's go.
[03:02.980 --> 03:04.780]  Yes, very good evening to everybody.
[03:04.900 --> 03:08.220]  The program is off the hook, and we're celebrating here tonight.
[03:08.720 --> 03:09.640]  It's a great day.
[03:10.540 --> 03:16.180]  North Korea has made it into the World Cup as of a couple of hours ago, and we're going to devote the entire show.
[03:16.240 --> 03:16.760]  Yes, go ahead, Mike.
[03:16.860 --> 03:19.640]  I thought we only talked about sports on this program on April 1st.
[03:19.680 --> 03:20.780]  Well, this is more than sports, Mike.
[03:20.880 --> 03:22.020]  This is history.
[03:22.280 --> 03:27.820]  This is the first time in almost half a century that the Democratic people's... I'm sorry, what?
[03:27.820 --> 03:29.460]  History, okay, but sports history.
[03:29.720 --> 03:32.720]  Well, you know, soccer goes so far beyond sports.
[03:32.960 --> 03:34.680]  People have had wars over soccer.
[03:34.820 --> 03:36.260]  Peace has been forged through soccer.
[03:36.340 --> 03:44.940]  In fact, it's widely thought that this will put Kim Jong-il in such a good mood that he'll release those journalists and stop with the nuclear things and...
[03:44.940 --> 03:45.360]  Widely?
[03:45.500 --> 03:46.100]  Cite your source.
[03:46.340 --> 03:59.380]  Well, the people I've talked to on the street that didn't feel like asking their names, but they're out there, and, you know, basically it's a historical moment, and people in North Korea are very happy tonight, and that doesn't happen often, so why don't we celebrate?
[03:59.640 --> 04:00.620]  Can we talk about Iran?
[04:01.160 --> 04:03.240]  Well, they got eliminated today, unfortunately, Gus.
[04:04.220 --> 04:07.060]  Iran was eliminated when they tied South Korea.
[04:07.580 --> 04:12.360]  And South Korea has mixed feelings about having North Korea in the World Cup finals next year in South Africa as well.
[04:13.160 --> 04:28.340]  And those of you Saudi Arabian fans don't feel bad because while, in fact, North Korea tied them today, they still have a chance, if they can beat Bahrain in the playoff, for the right to play New Zealand for that final place in South Africa, yes.
[04:29.540 --> 04:34.760]  We have all kinds of North Korean music to play in the background, but, yeah, we can talk about other things, too.
[04:34.860 --> 04:39.960]  If people really want to talk about other things and put this momentous occasion on the back burner, we can do that.
[04:40.340 --> 04:44.280]  You're really all about just defending the underdog no matter where.
[04:44.520 --> 04:45.880]  Do these sound like underdogs to you?
[04:46.420 --> 04:47.100]  No, actually.
[04:47.180 --> 04:48.460]  I don't think they think they're underdogs.
[04:49.180 --> 04:50.040]  But we have...
[04:50.940 --> 04:57.640]  I have so many hours of North Korean music, but, you know, I can't figure out how to get the CD player to play more than one song at once.
[04:57.780 --> 05:02.400]  So I'm going to have to hit a button every time and skip to the next track for it to play another song.
[05:03.880 --> 05:05.260]  That sounds like the same song, doesn't it?
[05:06.080 --> 05:06.660]  But it's not.
[05:06.720 --> 05:06.980]  It's not.
[05:07.080 --> 05:07.500]  It's a different song.
[05:07.680 --> 05:09.300]  Anyway, the program is off the hook.
[05:09.700 --> 05:12.200]  And while I'd like to talk about this the whole hour...
[05:12.200 --> 05:13.720]  That is the same song, isn't it?
[05:14.600 --> 05:15.280]  I think it is.
[05:15.280 --> 05:16.700]  I'm going to skip to the song after that.
[05:16.900 --> 05:17.520]  You're just racist.
[05:17.680 --> 05:18.860]  You're just saying they all sound the same.
[05:18.960 --> 05:19.920]  No, I don't think that's the case.
[05:20.120 --> 05:21.260]  Okay, that's definitely a different song.
[05:21.480 --> 05:22.740]  Anyway, this is off the hook.
[05:22.880 --> 05:26.160]  We're talking about technology and world events, among other things.
[05:26.240 --> 05:29.100]  And yes, we will be talking about Iran and what's been going on over there.
[05:29.260 --> 05:30.360]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[05:30.720 --> 05:30.980]  Hi.
[05:31.140 --> 05:31.540]  Rob T.
[05:31.800 --> 05:32.120]  Firefly.
[05:32.380 --> 05:32.780]  Good evening.
[05:32.980 --> 05:33.260]  Gus.
[05:33.520 --> 05:33.860]  Oh, hi.
[05:34.060 --> 05:34.680]  And Bernie S.
[05:34.800 --> 05:35.680]  down there in Philadelphia.
[05:36.380 --> 05:38.920]  Actually, I'm up there in Plattsburgh, New York.
[05:39.060 --> 05:39.440]  Wait a minute.
[05:39.520 --> 05:40.520]  What are you trying to do to me?
[05:40.520 --> 05:44.420]  It's been a crazy enough day as it is, with North Korea making it into the World Cup.
[05:44.680 --> 05:47.100]  Now you're in a different state, and you sound much better.
[05:47.140 --> 05:47.680]  Why is that?
[05:48.240 --> 05:52.100]  Well, actually, I was in a different country, but now I'm back after a very, very brief visit to Canada.
[05:53.000 --> 05:53.300]  I'm in...
[05:53.300 --> 05:54.920]  Did you have to drop off a package or something?
[05:55.560 --> 06:02.060]  Actually, I was heading to Montreal, but the Canadian government found me, quote, inadmissible.
[06:02.260 --> 06:02.540]  What?
[06:02.880 --> 06:03.440]  End quote.
[06:03.660 --> 06:05.420]  Based on my 1995 case.
[06:05.860 --> 06:07.140]  Hold on, hold on.
[06:07.180 --> 06:13.540]  Because of what happened to you in 1995, that was well documented on these airwaves, they're not letting you into Canada?
[06:13.800 --> 06:15.160]  That's what they brought up, yes.
[06:15.680 --> 06:16.060]  Wow.
[06:16.200 --> 06:17.500]  Have you been to Canada since then?
[06:19.780 --> 06:31.780]  Not, well, I have been in Canada a couple, three times in the past, I don't know, 15 years as, like, airline stopovers, but not, you know, not walking around outside the airport kind of thing.
[06:31.920 --> 06:32.200]  Uh-huh.
[06:32.480 --> 06:38.560]  So, no, I haven't really, I have not been a tourist or visitor in Canada since then.
[06:39.180 --> 06:40.860]  And apparently a lot has changed there.
[06:41.020 --> 06:44.440]  Since the last time I was a tourist in Canada, things are very different.
[06:44.440 --> 06:48.960]  They're very friendly, and you could walk in, or just, you know, drive in, or whatever.
[06:50.040 --> 06:51.640]  Well, they still are friendly.
[06:52.100 --> 06:54.740]  Yeah, they still are friendly, but if you get...
[06:54.740 --> 06:55.160]  It depends who they are.
[06:55.300 --> 07:01.240]  If they're border guards, they're not necessarily friendly, because other people on the train felt that they were very unfriendly to them as well.
[07:01.760 --> 07:02.120]  Uh-huh.
[07:02.160 --> 07:03.080]  It wasn't an Amtrak train.
[07:03.760 --> 07:13.940]  Yeah, I've found my, some of my worst experiences have been on, well, actually, I was only on an Amtrak train once, but I got totally, I was coming into this country, I was, in fact, that happens almost every time I come into this country.
[07:14.500 --> 07:21.760]  Uh, so, okay, so, I think you were at the same, uh, border that this happened, it didn't happen to me, but it happened to someone I was traveling with, so we had to turn back as well.
[07:21.860 --> 07:23.700]  Is this the, uh, the New York State Thruway?
[07:25.560 --> 07:28.560]  Um, I don't know, I took the Amtrak train that goes up...
[07:28.560 --> 07:30.180]  That's right, you were on a train, you were on a train, never mind.
[07:30.320 --> 07:46.020]  I was on a train, it goes up along the Hudson River Valley, and up through Plattsburgh, and then, uh, there's a little town called, uh, Citra, I'm trying to remember the name of it, um, here it is, I wrote it down, uh, Cantric, C-A-N-T-R-I-C.
[07:46.680 --> 07:47.180]  Uh-huh.
[07:47.540 --> 07:50.580]  Cantique, Cantique, which is about 45 minutes south of Montreal.
[07:50.620 --> 07:53.880]  It was in Canada, maybe 15 or 20 minutes inside of Canada.
[07:54.300 --> 08:08.980]  And then the train stops, and there's a little building where four or five, uh, Canadian border guards, uh, in full regalia, come marching onto the train, and they commandeer one car of the train, and they make it into a little police station, and they interview everybody in the train,
[08:09.140 --> 08:18.440]  and then they take somebody, they selected people onto this one special car that's modified for their use, and, uh, they proceed with what's called secondary questioning.
[08:18.580 --> 08:20.400]  Well, they took me into the dining car for that.
[08:20.820 --> 08:21.660]  Modified for their use?
[08:21.760 --> 08:22.680]  Is this a routine practice?
[08:22.900 --> 08:24.440]  Well, they, they used the dining car for me.
[08:24.520 --> 08:26.820]  I don't know if it was modified for their use, but, uh, they...
[08:26.820 --> 08:29.360]  Well, they were, uh, they were, well, modified, temporarily modified for their use.
[08:29.360 --> 08:32.420]  There was a dining car in this train, too, but it wasn't the car that they used.
[08:32.580 --> 08:35.100]  Well, this was the car that they... it's not really a dining car.
[08:35.160 --> 08:40.480]  It was the car where they had the tables where you dine, but it wasn't the car where you get your food.
[08:40.640 --> 08:41.700]  It was next to the dining car.
[08:41.880 --> 08:42.080]  Okay.
[08:42.080 --> 08:43.020]  So, yeah, I guess it was a dining car.
[08:43.520 --> 08:44.240]  That's where you dine.
[08:44.380 --> 08:44.980]  Maybe you get your food.
[08:45.080 --> 08:46.300]  Well, you know, this doesn't matter at all.
[08:46.680 --> 08:46.840]  Right.
[08:47.040 --> 08:53.140]  Okay, so basically, you got that secondary... I guess it was based on... what, did you show a passport or something?
[08:53.420 --> 08:54.400]  Yeah, I showed him my passport.
[08:55.260 --> 08:59.680]  Interestingly, they already had a printout, which I could read partially upside down.
[09:00.600 --> 09:09.380]  They already had a printout, and I saw it in 1995, and the dash, and then something about federal whatever.
[09:09.580 --> 09:13.360]  So they already had a printout, knowing about all this, when they boarded the train.
[09:13.680 --> 09:15.540]  So they were well aware of this ahead of time.
[09:15.540 --> 09:16.580]  Well, they get a passenger list.
[09:16.660 --> 09:20.160]  In fact, when I was being interrogated, I remember hearing someone say, is he on the list?
[09:20.440 --> 09:24.860]  So I don't know if that's the passenger list, or they have a further list of people they're going to question even more.
[09:25.200 --> 09:26.680]  They have a further list, apparently.
[09:27.120 --> 09:27.320]  Yeah.
[09:27.920 --> 09:29.360]  Okay, so what kinds of things did they ask you?
[09:29.980 --> 09:36.920]  They asked me, more interestingly, they asked me about my history, you know, with this criminal case, and I explained to them what it was about.
[09:37.900 --> 09:41.600]  And they said, well, you know, we have laws in Canada here, and...
[09:41.600 --> 09:42.360]  Oh, they do?
[09:42.480 --> 09:42.620]  Really?
[09:42.800 --> 09:43.700]  Oh, wow, how about that?
[09:43.700 --> 09:48.820]  We have laws in Canada here, and they may not be... they may not have the same penalties as they do in the United States.
[09:48.980 --> 09:50.980]  They may be more severe or less severe, they said.
[09:51.240 --> 09:59.260]  But they said, in any case, this particular crime renders me inadmissible to Canada.
[09:59.420 --> 10:05.640]  They said, if I would like to explore this further, there's a procedure by which I can be rehabilitated.
[10:06.080 --> 10:11.760]  I can fill out some forms and apply for what's called rehabilitation, to be reconsidered for readmission into Canada.
[10:11.760 --> 10:19.060]  Yeah, I explained to them, I'd been to like a dozen, 13 countries since that case, and I'd never had any problem going to any other country.
[10:19.380 --> 10:23.940]  You know, with Canada, and they just looked at me, they didn't say much.
[10:24.040 --> 10:33.660]  As far as I know, this is a practice that was instituted in response to a practice the United States instituted against Canadians, and just tit-for-tat or something like that.
[10:33.820 --> 10:34.580]  Yeah, I was concerned.
[10:34.980 --> 10:37.420]  Yeah, I learned more about the situation from a cab driver.
[10:38.100 --> 10:40.160]  After I was escorted off the train...
[10:40.160 --> 10:40.940]  Yeah, what did you do?
[10:41.040 --> 10:45.300]  There's no other... there's only one train a day, and I'm sure you've missed that one to... back to the States.
[10:45.720 --> 10:46.180]  That's right.
[10:46.440 --> 10:48.360]  So they basically say you're on your own.
[10:48.880 --> 10:53.560]  And they threw me in the back of a... well, they had me load all my luggage in the back of their SUV.
[10:54.480 --> 10:59.280]  And they put me in the back of that with the two armed guards in the front, and they drove me away.
[10:59.360 --> 11:04.100]  And there was a cab following us, and behind the cab was an empty SUV with flashing lights.
[11:05.540 --> 11:07.840]  So it was a three-car caravan, just for me, apparently.
[11:08.440 --> 11:15.900]  And they drove me to their Canadian border facility, which is several buildings and so forth.
[11:15.960 --> 11:17.240]  And they asked me some further questions.
[11:19.140 --> 11:30.900]  And they had me... the one woman who was questioning me, she said, In a few minutes, I will have some papers... no, she said, In a few minutes, I have some papers to make you sign, is what she said.
[11:31.960 --> 11:34.360]  So in a few minutes later, I was called to sign these papers.
[11:34.920 --> 11:44.760]  And the paper basically said, quote, I hereby voluntarily withdraw my application to enter Canada.
[11:46.440 --> 11:47.880]  And I said, this wasn't voluntary.
[11:48.120 --> 11:49.400]  I said, this is involuntary.
[11:49.800 --> 11:52.440]  I'll say I withdraw it, but I'm not going to say it was voluntary.
[11:53.320 --> 11:56.440]  So they said, well, if you don't sign it, you'll go before a judge.
[11:57.940 --> 12:00.260]  So I signed it, but I just crossed out the word voluntary.
[12:00.500 --> 12:01.460]  And I handed it to them.
[12:01.460 --> 12:02.520]  And they took it in.
[12:02.580 --> 12:03.340]  They told me to sit down.
[12:03.420 --> 12:08.980]  And about 10 minutes later, a case manager, who was also in uniform, called me, said, we had a problem.
[12:09.140 --> 12:10.680]  He had a very heavy French accent.
[12:11.500 --> 12:13.620]  And he said, you crossed out this word voluntary.
[12:14.340 --> 12:16.220]  I said, well, yeah, none of this is voluntary.
[12:16.420 --> 12:16.980]  I don't want to be here.
[12:20.300 --> 12:23.360]  So they said, in Canada, we don't make anybody do anything.
[12:24.780 --> 12:34.760]  But if you do not sign this form without anything modified in the form, you will be detained until you go before a judge.
[12:34.900 --> 12:35.660]  Voluntarily detained?
[12:36.520 --> 12:36.960]  Apparently.
[12:37.180 --> 12:37.500]  All right.
[12:37.540 --> 12:37.920]  Not voluntary.
[12:38.160 --> 12:39.340]  It's like income tax.
[12:39.520 --> 12:39.820]  Uh-huh.
[12:40.180 --> 12:40.620]  Voluntary.
[12:40.780 --> 12:41.380]  Is he spending time tax?
[12:41.700 --> 12:53.940]  You'll be detained and held until we have time to find a judge, at which time you will probably be sent back to the United States, but you will never be allowed to come to Canada again.
[12:55.300 --> 12:56.100]  That's what they said.
[12:56.100 --> 12:58.180]  That if I chose the option of going to see the judge.
[12:58.400 --> 12:58.600]  Uh-huh.
[12:59.260 --> 13:00.480]  So I thought, well...
[13:01.500 --> 13:03.640]  I would have said, I mean, Canada or Quebec?
[13:03.860 --> 13:05.040]  You know, just to start a debate going.
[13:05.460 --> 13:09.560]  Well, I didn't know how long I'd be held before I saw this judge.
[13:09.720 --> 13:09.920]  Right.
[13:10.080 --> 13:13.060]  So I thought, well, I don't want to spend time in jail.
[13:13.740 --> 13:14.200]  Uh-huh.
[13:14.280 --> 13:19.880]  And I didn't want to ruin any possibility I've had of going to Canada at any time in the future.
[13:20.320 --> 13:23.320]  So I signed the form again, and I didn't cross out the word voluntarily.
[13:24.060 --> 13:27.020]  And then the cab driver took me to the U.S.
[13:27.260 --> 13:28.960]  Customs and Border Inspection offices.
[13:29.660 --> 13:31.700]  And those people were actually nicer to me, surprisingly.
[13:32.100 --> 13:35.080]  Well, it's not hard to do that after what they put you through.
[13:35.520 --> 13:37.280]  But the cabbie told me some interesting things.
[13:37.380 --> 13:39.600]  I asked him, I said, this is a pretty steady gig, huh?
[13:39.860 --> 13:46.120]  He said, this is all I do, is driving people who are rejected from Canada back to the U.S.
[13:46.140 --> 13:47.260]  Yes, it's a full-time job.
[13:47.340 --> 13:49.820]  He probably never gets any good tips then, because everyone's...
[13:49.820 --> 13:53.040]  No, he says that Amtrak pays his fare.
[13:53.220 --> 13:54.440]  I said, how much do I owe you?
[13:54.520 --> 13:56.000]  He said, don't worry, Amtrak pays for it.
[13:56.580 --> 13:56.920]  Wow.
[13:57.360 --> 13:59.740]  So, but what he said was very interesting.
[13:59.860 --> 14:00.760]  I said, how long have you been doing this?
[14:00.900 --> 14:01.400]  He said, 15 years.
[14:01.540 --> 14:04.740]  I said, has this been getting worse a lot in the past 15 years?
[14:05.180 --> 14:06.020]  He said, yes.
[14:06.100 --> 14:07.620]  Well, especially after 9-11, he said.
[14:07.900 --> 14:11.160]  But he said, every year it's been getting more and more controlled.
[14:11.560 --> 14:14.400]  And he said, in the past years, it's gotten the worst he's ever seen.
[14:14.400 --> 14:22.640]  He said, in April, 80 American border guards were fired at one time.
[14:23.220 --> 14:26.400]  And he says, he doesn't know exactly what it was about, but he said 80 of them were fired.
[14:26.580 --> 14:29.180]  And he said, since then, it's been extremely strict.
[14:29.260 --> 14:30.580]  And they've been rejecting people for...
[14:30.580 --> 14:34.500]  He said he knows one person that was rejected because they had a DUI from 30 years ago.
[14:35.520 --> 14:38.540]  So, so they're very, very uptight about this.
[14:41.240 --> 14:46.500]  So, then I was able to get an Amtrak, not an Amtrak, a Greyhound bus from the U.S.
[14:46.620 --> 14:51.960]  Border Customs, Border Guards, I think it's the Border and Customs Patrol, BCP, I guess.
[14:52.340 --> 14:58.500]  I waited around until a Greyhound bus came by with full of Canadian citizens who were coming to the U.S., which they had to be inspected by U.S.
[14:58.760 --> 14:59.120]  Customs.
[14:59.300 --> 15:00.880]  So, they let me get on that bus.
[15:01.020 --> 15:02.620]  It was 20 bucks to get to Plattsburgh, New York.
[15:03.180 --> 15:08.460]  And when I got to Plattsburgh, I took a cab from there to a nearby hotel, like a day's in.
[15:08.620 --> 15:12.000]  And then that cabbie told me some more interesting stories.
[15:12.340 --> 15:15.460]  He told me that these 80 customs, U.S.
[15:15.580 --> 15:28.380]  Customs Border Inspection people were fired in April because they were not being strict enough as far as preventing Canadians from coming to the U.S.
[15:30.800 --> 15:33.080]  So, he said, since then, it's been very, very tight.
[15:33.080 --> 15:40.940]  He's been picking up people on that Greyhound bus every day who are Americans who are not allowed into Canada.
[15:41.100 --> 15:42.260]  It's a tip for cat, like you said.
[15:42.760 --> 15:43.320]  U.S.
[15:43.400 --> 15:46.380]  tightens up, and then Canada tightens up as a result.
[15:46.520 --> 15:50.120]  But the first cab driver told me that he believes the U.S.
[15:50.120 --> 15:52.380]  is actually dictating to Canada these policies.
[15:52.380 --> 15:59.720]  He says he's sure of that from his conversations with both sides, because he knows border guards on both sides, because he goes back and forth every day dozens of times.
[16:00.140 --> 16:04.340]  So, that's the word from people who know or are friends of both sides.
[16:05.060 --> 16:08.040]  Well, that's, yeah, it's hardly surprising that the U.S.
[16:08.060 --> 16:10.340]  would be dictating policy changes.
[16:10.800 --> 16:12.380]  You know, we do that kind of thing all the time.
[16:14.140 --> 16:20.540]  But, wow, so now you're stuck in Plattsburgh, and I suppose are you going to spend time there, or are you going to head back to Philly?
[16:20.540 --> 16:27.640]  Well, I was here last night, and I walked around a bit, and I'm going to take the Amtrak back to, back home tomorrow.
[16:27.940 --> 16:29.020]  This all happened today, though?
[16:29.540 --> 16:31.720]  Well, no, last night was my adventure.
[16:31.880 --> 16:32.480]  Oh, okay.
[16:32.760 --> 16:33.580]  With Amtrak.
[16:33.680 --> 16:37.320]  I wasn't even aware until showtime that you were going to Canada, so I'm a bit surprised.
[16:37.320 --> 16:39.300]  Well, it was sort of a sudden thing.
[16:39.400 --> 16:44.440]  There was a telecom conference going on there, and I was going to stop and see the people at the Foo Lab, which is a hackerspace in Montreal.
[16:45.180 --> 16:52.740]  And, actually, I was hoping to do the show from there, but they were none too pleased with how I was treated, either, when I talked to them on the phone later.
[16:52.940 --> 16:53.740]  Dot Red joins us.
[16:53.920 --> 16:54.320]  Hello.
[16:55.020 --> 16:55.360]  Hey, Dan.
[16:55.560 --> 16:57.920]  I only have one question about this whole thing.
[16:59.200 --> 17:04.780]  Can anyone conceive why the United States would dictate to Canada that Canada should keep out Americans?
[17:06.420 --> 17:10.240]  Well, I mean, I'm sure the military is interested in keeping draft dodgers out, although...
[17:10.240 --> 17:12.580]  Yeah, but that would be a completely different scenario.
[17:12.580 --> 17:13.760]  We're not in the draft.
[17:13.920 --> 17:17.940]  Beyond that, I mean, I think what would be nice, actually, is if we can get some Canadian callers on tonight.
[17:18.040 --> 17:25.860]  Maybe we can invite folks from Canada to, you know, call in, let us know if they know anything about why this might be going on.
[17:26.560 --> 17:36.620]  I have one theory that someone, a friend of mine, suggested that the United States is the biggest bully on the playground, and therefore, they kind of call the shots.
[17:37.240 --> 17:45.120]  That kind of makes sense, based on what this one cabbie told me, who's known these border guards on both sides of the border for the past 15 years.
[17:45.260 --> 17:49.220]  Still, it is something that the border guard has some discretion in.
[17:49.960 --> 17:50.720]  He's not...
[17:50.720 --> 17:52.740]  I don't think he's required to deny you entry.
[17:52.900 --> 18:02.200]  Simply, by looking at something, he can say, well, okay, I'm going to follow the letter of the law and make sure you don't get in, or, okay, this is not a big deal.
[18:02.680 --> 18:04.080]  You know, I've seen it go both ways.
[18:04.200 --> 18:05.220]  I'm sure he gets a promotion.
[18:05.900 --> 18:08.500]  I'm sure he gets a promotion if he kicks more people out.
[18:08.840 --> 18:10.340]  But I'm sure that the U.S.
[18:10.480 --> 18:22.780]  doesn't really care who goes to Canada, but they don't want to let Canadians into the United States, so Canada adopts the mirror policy in some sort of, like, diplomatic tit-for-tat that benefits absolutely no one.
[18:23.220 --> 18:24.500]  Now, what I find interesting...
[18:24.500 --> 18:40.680]  That's a little worthy that these 80 American border guards that were just fired in April sets up a sort of a paradigm where the guards on both sides know that they're at risk if they aren't stricter than ever.
[18:41.700 --> 18:45.420]  So, you know, people on the U.S., the border guards on the U.S.
[18:45.480 --> 18:57.780]  side definitely feel, based on what this one taxi cab drive, if they err on the side of caution, I mean, if they err on the side of diplomacy and let someone through, they could be fired.
[18:58.740 --> 19:04.420]  So, apparently, that has leaked over... it's gone as a tit-for-tat sort of thing on both sides.
[19:04.740 --> 19:09.280]  It's interesting how they seem to deter people from staying away from court as well.
[19:09.540 --> 19:12.600]  You know, court would normally be the place where you can straighten things out.
[19:13.900 --> 19:14.220]  Mm-hmm.
[19:15.580 --> 19:15.980]  Interesting.
[19:17.020 --> 19:21.620]  Okay, well, Bernie, are you going to file paperwork and try and get this lifted?
[19:23.200 --> 19:25.820]  Yeah, I'm not in a big rush to it, but yeah, I'm going to explore that.
[19:25.820 --> 19:29.400]  It'll be interesting to see, just to see from a process standpoint, what all is involved.
[19:29.500 --> 19:30.380]  I'm kind of curious.
[19:30.620 --> 19:30.900]  Mm-hmm.
[19:31.900 --> 19:35.860]  And if I go back... apparently, Amtrak is one of the worst ways to go there.
[19:36.140 --> 19:41.120]  The route I took is the one that goes from New York to Montreal, two of the biggest cities.
[19:41.340 --> 19:41.540]  Right.
[19:41.840 --> 19:46.960]  And they have plenty of times, it's a heads-up, you know, they know who's on the train and all that.
[19:47.140 --> 19:55.960]  I mean, had I been just driving through some more remote border area where they didn't know I was coming and they all had a passport, I think my chances would have been a lot better.
[19:56.140 --> 19:56.480]  Yeah, probably.
[19:56.780 --> 20:02.260]  In fact, if you can find... I tried to do this on my way back into the country, find one of those borders that's not guarded.
[20:02.820 --> 20:05.320]  Unfortunately, I went right into the arms of a border guard.
[20:06.040 --> 20:08.680]  But there is a way to do that in northern Vermont.
[20:08.780 --> 20:13.860]  I'm not suggesting you do that, obviously, because now that you know you're not allowed in Canada, if you try that, it's a lot more serious.
[20:14.540 --> 20:17.640]  But it is something I'd like to try at one point anyway.
[20:17.760 --> 20:22.880]  But I think you should just get this bureaucracy out of the way, because once you get into Canada, it's very nice.
[20:23.220 --> 20:29.020]  You know, you shouldn't let the first people you see in any country define what the country is.
[20:29.080 --> 20:30.400]  That includes this country as well.
[20:30.640 --> 20:35.880]  I've been there as a tourist before, you know, years ago, and it was a very, very wonderful place to see.
[20:35.980 --> 20:36.900]  I hope to go back again.
[20:37.460 --> 20:37.840]  All right.
[20:38.240 --> 20:38.800]  Okay, Bernie.
[20:38.900 --> 20:40.040]  Well, we wish you luck.
[20:40.080 --> 20:42.260]  And we'll, of course, be following up on this story as well.
[20:42.720 --> 20:45.580]  Of course, we have other things to talk about during this hour.
[20:47.600 --> 20:48.380]  And let's see.
[20:48.560 --> 20:55.060]  Well, I guess the story that maybe we can put to bed once and for all is the digital TV cut over.
[20:55.220 --> 20:55.700]  It's over.
[20:55.860 --> 20:56.320]  It's done.
[20:56.500 --> 21:00.440]  There are riots in the street, yes, but they're in Iran, and it's got nothing to do with this.
[21:01.040 --> 21:01.960]  Wait, I have a question.
[21:01.980 --> 21:05.680]  Does that mean that, you know, in whatever, five, ten minutes when we're done with this, we're done with it?
[21:05.700 --> 21:06.920]  We don't have to talk about it ever again?
[21:06.940 --> 21:07.400]  Well, I don't know.
[21:07.660 --> 21:10.700]  Bernie, do you think there's more to talk about as far as the cut over?
[21:11.020 --> 21:21.100]  Well, I don't want to belabor it, but it is interesting in Philadelphia, and I read also in the Philadelphia Inquirer, this has happened in New York, that some of the low-band UHF channels, in Philly it's Channel 6.
[21:21.260 --> 21:29.800]  I don't know what channels there are below 6 in New York, but their viewers are having great difficulty picking up their signals over the air now.
[21:29.940 --> 21:40.460]  In Channel 6, even people that live right within a mile of the transmission towers aren't even able to pick up the signal, according to the FCC, and this is a serious problem.
[21:40.460 --> 21:55.060]  So, they're not sure exactly what the problem is, but I think the problem is because people are sold, and they're sold a new digital TV or converter box, they're just sold a little UHF antenna to put inside, and they're not being told, you better get a big UHF,
[21:55.100 --> 22:01.900]  big VHF antenna, because the frequencies that are Channel 6 and below are really long wavelengths, like the wavelength of Channel 6 is like three and a half meters.
[22:02.180 --> 22:04.300]  So you need a big antenna to pick that up.
[22:04.700 --> 22:13.900]  Rapiders just don't cut it in the city, because there's a lot of reflections, and those reflections cause ghosts and analog, but they cause bit error rates, which means no signal at all with digital.
[22:14.120 --> 22:31.520]  So, Channel 6, WPDI, is actually down in Washington now, lobbying with the FCC, trying to get an exemption to increase their power level, so that maybe people could pick up the signal, and I know that power level doesn't seem to necessarily fix the problem,
[22:31.720 --> 22:36.940]  but the FCC says, no, you can't do that, because it'll interfere with the FM broadcast band stations and the low end of the FM broadcast.
[22:37.140 --> 22:37.820]  So it's really interesting.
[22:37.980 --> 22:40.380]  There's a big article in the Inquirer about it, and...
[22:40.380 --> 22:41.840]  So, let me just understand this.
[22:41.980 --> 22:43.320]  They're on Channel 6 in Philadelphia.
[22:43.320 --> 22:46.700]  They elected to stay on Channel 6, which is right below the FM band.
[22:47.380 --> 22:59.620]  Yeah, but the FCC told them originally, a few years ago, that everybody should move to the UHF band, and some stations who are on the VHF band said, no, no, no, we want to stay on VHF because we have longer range, because they just have VHF signals behave themselves.
[23:00.700 --> 23:05.820]  And so they insisted, and they actually got that restriction lifted so they could stay on the VHF channels.
[23:06.000 --> 23:10.080]  And now they've sort of hoisted themselves, their own petards, and they kind of screwed themselves.
[23:10.300 --> 23:16.280]  Well, I assume Channel 3 up in Philadelphia, they didn't stay on 3, they moved to a UHF channel.
[23:16.440 --> 23:16.760]  Exactly.
[23:16.940 --> 23:23.120]  Channel 3 moved to UHF, but Channel 12, which is high band VHF, even they are experiencing problems.
[23:23.400 --> 23:23.740]  Right.
[23:23.880 --> 23:29.440]  They stayed on Channel 12 VHF, and that's a higher VHF channel, but still a much longer wavelength than the UHF.
[23:29.440 --> 23:35.420]  Now, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but Connecticut Public Television moved from UHF to Channel 6.
[23:35.840 --> 23:37.660]  That's what I heard months ago.
[23:37.840 --> 23:46.300]  And I think their thinking in that is that they'll have an FM audience that can just turn on the radio and hear the TV anytime.
[23:46.460 --> 23:47.600]  No, you can't do that anymore.
[23:47.800 --> 23:48.680]  Oh, it doesn't work like that.
[23:48.840 --> 23:57.060]  No, once it's a digital signal, because here, WPBI Channel 6 in Philadelphia used to have a lot of listeners on 87.7 megahertz, especially drive time.
[23:57.460 --> 24:06.840]  They have a news program that goes from 5 to 6, or 5 to 6.30, in the hopes of picking up these drive time listeners in their cars, tuning in to 87.7.
[24:07.020 --> 24:17.360]  And KYW, the AM news station in Philly, has been crowing with all these commercials, saying, well, you can't pick up the news in 87.7 anymore, so be sure to listen to KYW 1060 AM.
[24:17.380 --> 24:19.000]  So what is that 87.7?
[24:19.080 --> 24:19.420]  Just nothing?
[24:20.460 --> 24:21.260]  It's just static.
[24:21.460 --> 24:25.260]  You just hear, you just hear, it sounds like white noise like any other unused FM frequency.
[24:25.480 --> 24:29.680]  Before, you could pick up the audio carrier of Channel 6.
[24:29.880 --> 24:39.860]  So any Channel 6 in any city, used to, if you could tune on 87.7, you could pick up their audio carrier, which is a very powerful carrier, because TV stations are very powerful transmitters.
[24:40.240 --> 24:45.200]  But no Channel 6 anywhere in the country now can be heard on an FM radio, which is unfortunate.
[24:45.400 --> 24:52.960]  So if I try rigging up a digital receiver to my radio, I think maybe you'd be able to listen to the TV then?
[24:54.420 --> 25:02.600]  No, you need... it's a very complicated signal, is the new... it's called an 8-VSB signal, these digital TV signals.
[25:03.020 --> 25:03.680]  8-VSB, okay.
[25:04.360 --> 25:11.880]  Much more complicated than this standard FM carrier, which is very easy to design a receiver for, just a few transistors, and it would be that.
[25:11.980 --> 25:20.160]  But you need a whole, you know, you need this whole special complex processing chip with all this digital signal processing, very, very complicated signal stuff.
[25:20.420 --> 25:22.580]  You can't... you should be able to buy a little portable radio.
[25:22.720 --> 25:27.280]  You remember, you get, like, AM, FM, and TV audio for, like, 20 bucks in a bargain store.
[25:27.600 --> 25:28.160]  No more.
[25:28.300 --> 25:29.960]  Well, now you get AM, FM, just not TV audio.
[25:30.540 --> 25:31.060]  Right, right.
[25:31.280 --> 25:31.420]  Right.
[25:31.540 --> 25:35.140]  But if you can't get a TV audio radio anymore, they don't make them.
[25:35.200 --> 25:36.820]  It's just not... it's not affordable to make them.
[25:37.000 --> 25:39.620]  So... and the least expensive portable TV you can get...
[25:39.620 --> 25:39.760]  Mm-hmm.
[25:40.000 --> 25:43.680]  ...that has digital is, like, $130 or so.
[25:43.820 --> 25:45.240]  So it's... it's interesting about it.
[25:45.240 --> 25:46.540]  It'll make you see how this all settles out.
[25:46.600 --> 25:47.460]  I don't want to belabor it.
[25:47.680 --> 25:51.060]  I know Mike doesn't want to belabor it, but it's not... it's not a done story.
[25:51.240 --> 25:52.480]  There's stuff that's still going on.
[25:52.580 --> 25:53.520]  Well, I saw something.
[25:53.840 --> 25:58.520]  This is actually off NPR's site, speaking of public TV and public radio.
[25:59.120 --> 26:03.540]  They claim that some cable subscribers could lose channels during the digital switch.
[26:03.540 --> 26:05.420]  I'm not quite sure I understand how that's possible.
[26:05.580 --> 26:06.540]  Are you familiar with that at all?
[26:07.360 --> 26:11.640]  Well, the cable companies are not required to carry any of the sub-channels.
[26:12.020 --> 26:27.040]  They're only required to carry the first... because with digital TV, they can... all the TV stations... this is one of the reasons they lobbied for it years ago, was that they could split up their TV signal into five digital channels instead of one, which really means five times the ad revenue of its commercial station.
[26:28.180 --> 26:30.480]  That's if they charge the same amount for...
[26:30.480 --> 26:34.580]  Well, they charge the same amount, but they get to charge five, you know, five different advertisers.
[26:35.040 --> 26:37.320]  So it's... so it's a lot more ads.
[26:37.480 --> 26:38.600]  So therefore, it's more ad revenue.
[26:38.860 --> 26:46.100]  But it's really up to the TV cable company area whether they want to carry any of the sub-stations.
[26:47.260 --> 26:50.920]  So I don't know about the TBS station in the area you're talking about, but...
[26:50.920 --> 27:03.940]  Well, I think this... I think this basically is about people that have to go and get a converter box for digital cable that they wouldn't ordinarily have had to have, and they're not getting all the channels they would have gotten without getting that particular box,
[27:04.000 --> 27:04.800]  a different kind of box.
[27:05.200 --> 27:05.600]  Nope.
[27:05.780 --> 27:07.080]  That's... that's not the case.
[27:07.200 --> 27:09.400]  It is the case for public access channels that...
[27:09.400 --> 27:13.740]  that some of the cable companies are now requiring people to buy a digital converter box.
[27:13.800 --> 27:26.160]  This has nothing to do with digital TV, but... but digital cable... some cable companies are... are putting the public access channels, which had been on... had analog on the cable for many years, and now saying, well, if you want to pick up public access channels now,
[27:26.160 --> 27:33.880]  you have to rent a digital cable set-top box from us from now on, which is several dollars a month, which really isn't fair to people in the lowest tier that maybe can't afford it.
[27:34.120 --> 27:34.240]  Right.
[27:34.320 --> 27:44.000]  But I've never heard... I've not heard of any PBS broadcast TV stations that weren't having their primary channel carried by any cable company, because they are required to by the FCC.
[27:45.000 --> 27:48.900]  The digital TV hotline got 700,000 calls about the switch.
[27:49.300 --> 27:51.500]  I'm not sure if that's more or less than what people were expecting.
[27:52.640 --> 28:01.140]  And I guess, you know, if you're out there, you're a listener to us, and you had any kind of problem or you didn't have a problem, let us know when we take some phone calls a little bit later on.
[28:01.140 --> 28:03.100]  But yeah, it's history, Rob.
[28:03.340 --> 28:05.920]  The TV that I do not own had no problems.
[28:07.460 --> 28:07.880]  Yes.
[28:08.100 --> 28:08.880]  I didn't notice any problems.
[28:08.900 --> 28:09.940]  My TiVo broke, though.
[28:10.080 --> 28:14.560]  The very day of it, my TiVo just completely blitzed out and doesn't work anymore.
[28:14.560 --> 28:14.920]  Interesting.
[28:15.080 --> 28:16.100]  And that's digital, so...
[28:16.100 --> 28:17.360]  I don't think it's related.
[28:17.640 --> 28:18.640]  My laptop broke.
[28:18.760 --> 28:20.260]  Well, there's no such thing as coincidences.
[28:20.260 --> 28:24.120]  Oh, Emanuel, did you watch any of the sign-offs at midnight on Friday?
[28:24.120 --> 28:26.260]  I did not because I couldn't get any stations.
[28:27.280 --> 28:28.000]  I got one.
[28:28.120 --> 28:30.300]  There was a UHF Spanish station.
[28:30.300 --> 28:33.600]  I think it's a Telemundo affiliate in Philadelphia.
[28:33.840 --> 28:34.460]  And they had this count...
[28:34.460 --> 28:36.060]  It was all in Spanish, so I didn't understand a lot of it.
[28:36.120 --> 28:37.520]  But I got the gist of it, obviously.
[28:37.780 --> 28:39.660]  And then they had this countdown.
[28:39.760 --> 28:43.500]  It kind of looked like the Times Square ball kind of thing, except it said Hitachi.
[28:43.720 --> 28:50.340]  And there was this ball dropping, and this number was changing from like 60 to Canada in the last minute, 60 down to like one second.
[28:50.640 --> 28:53.860]  And then they said something very celebratory in Spanish.
[28:54.040 --> 28:54.920]  And then the screen went blank.
[28:55.060 --> 28:56.260]  It was just like...
[28:56.260 --> 28:56.960]  Wow.
[28:56.960 --> 28:57.940]  There was a white noise in the raster.
[28:58.260 --> 29:08.440]  And I recorded that on video with pointing a camcorder at the screen in the fair use way that companies are saying.
[29:08.460 --> 29:08.860]  Right.
[29:09.020 --> 29:12.160]  I hope somebody recorded these various sign-offs.
[29:12.740 --> 29:14.860]  Because I remember you were talking about that.
[29:14.860 --> 29:17.560]  You were hoping that we could have, you know, this for like history.
[29:17.760 --> 29:19.540]  Did anyone actually record this?
[29:19.540 --> 29:19.880]  Well, we know.
[29:19.980 --> 29:20.780]  Bernie recorded one.
[29:21.140 --> 29:21.980]  I recorded one.
[29:22.100 --> 29:22.660]  I would check.
[29:22.740 --> 29:24.020]  I haven't had a chance to, but check YouTube.
[29:24.200 --> 29:25.720]  I'm sure other people have put some up on YouTube.
[29:26.000 --> 29:34.180]  I saw a replay of the sign-off that one station was rebroadcasting what another station had done previously.
[29:34.180 --> 29:37.680]  And they had a giant switch that several people were holding.
[29:37.880 --> 29:39.360]  And they pushed this switch up.
[29:39.480 --> 29:41.020]  It was sort of made of paper mache or something.
[29:41.020 --> 29:43.040]  They switched it up from analog to digital.
[29:43.360 --> 29:44.680]  And then the screen went blank.
[29:45.140 --> 29:47.760]  So I'm sure some broadcasters had fun with this.
[29:47.980 --> 29:48.840]  And others...
[29:48.840 --> 29:53.100]  I've heard other people that say the transmission was just in the New York, New Jersey area.
[29:53.240 --> 29:55.900]  Some of the stations just right in mid-sentence of the show.
[29:56.040 --> 29:57.020]  It just went to nothing.
[29:57.920 --> 29:58.980]  So they didn't do anything with it.
[29:59.020 --> 30:01.380]  Because they don't have any humans working at the stations anymore, I'll bet.
[30:01.520 --> 30:02.980]  That's probably the reason for that.
[30:02.980 --> 30:03.700]  All right.
[30:03.820 --> 30:07.080]  Well, this story is done for now, but we'll be taking some phone calls later on.
[30:07.200 --> 30:11.140]  212-209-2900 if you wish to discuss the digital TV conversion.
[30:12.680 --> 30:18.440]  And as we continue to celebrate North Korea's victory into the World Cup 2010, which took place earlier today.
[30:20.260 --> 30:21.940]  We're going to move on into the next story.
[30:22.040 --> 30:22.260]  Yes, Mike?
[30:22.320 --> 30:23.720]  This is just to make me angry.
[30:23.860 --> 30:25.980]  So we're finally done with talking about digital TV.
[30:26.080 --> 30:27.180]  Now we have to talk about soccer?
[30:27.400 --> 30:27.680]  Yes.
[30:27.840 --> 30:28.120]  Well, no.
[30:28.260 --> 30:30.760]  I was going to move on to a different story and just play the music in the background.
[30:30.760 --> 30:34.400]  It seems like we're talking about soccer and digital TV now because you've brought this up again.
[30:34.640 --> 30:34.780]  All right.
[30:35.000 --> 30:35.580]  Let's move on.
[30:35.720 --> 30:36.020]  All right.
[30:37.300 --> 30:38.020]  Yes, Twitter.
[30:38.280 --> 30:39.000]  Let's talk about Twitter.
[30:39.100 --> 30:42.560]  Now, Gus, I know you didn't want to talk about Twitter last week.
[30:42.620 --> 30:44.200]  And now this week you do want to talk about Twitter.
[30:44.340 --> 30:49.000]  What happened to change so dramatically your point of view?
[30:49.120 --> 30:49.960]  Nothing really happened.
[30:50.140 --> 30:51.860]  I mean, basically, obviously...
[30:51.860 --> 30:53.040]  Is this too loud for you in the background?
[30:54.040 --> 30:55.160]  I think we can have it louder.
[30:55.340 --> 30:55.380]  Am I being too quiet?
[30:55.380 --> 30:55.840]  Make it louder.
[30:56.000 --> 30:58.920]  I don't want to be disrespectful to the music either.
[30:58.920 --> 31:01.060]  So, you know, it has to be somewhat inspirational.
[31:01.180 --> 31:01.620]  But no, go ahead.
[31:01.740 --> 31:01.940]  Go ahead.
[31:02.120 --> 31:06.300]  No, it's not ever about the technology.
[31:06.460 --> 31:07.540]  I mean, it's always about how we use it.
[31:07.600 --> 31:16.080]  And what really happened this week, of course, is that activist mobilizations seem to work really well with spur-of-the-moment technology.
[31:16.080 --> 31:27.780]  What we were getting from Iran sounded a lot to me like a lot of the stuff that we used to hear on indie media around the, you know, anti-globalization protests in the late 90s and the early aughts.
[31:27.780 --> 31:34.620]  And you're referring, of course, to the reaction after the quote-unquote election where the results were not quite what people were anticipating and people got rather peeved.
[31:34.620 --> 31:34.660]  Yes.
[31:34.660 --> 31:35.780]  People mobilized, got in the street.
[31:35.780 --> 31:46.820]  And I think the most interesting thing for me was one of the trending topics that hit Twitter quickly was not just pound Iran election, but there was also pound CNN fail.
[31:47.680 --> 31:48.260]  Tell us about that.
[31:48.380 --> 31:50.480]  Now, first of all, tell us what the whole pound thing is all about.
[31:50.540 --> 31:50.680]  Sure.
[31:50.680 --> 31:51.300]  People don't use Twitter.
[31:51.460 --> 31:56.560]  Pound is how you indicate that something, it's sort of your tag to say that this message is about such-and-so.
[31:56.780 --> 31:56.980]  Okay.
[31:56.980 --> 31:58.780]  And it gets pretty redundant sometimes.
[31:58.980 --> 32:04.400]  Like, if you are saying, for example, you know, this is about my cat, and you do pound cat, that's pretty dumb.
[32:04.520 --> 32:04.980]  Oh, God.
[32:05.080 --> 32:05.260]  Yeah.
[32:05.580 --> 32:14.800]  But if you, you know, I mean, like you could say, we're being tear-gassed in the streets, as many people were saying, and then go pound Iran election, and that shows up in a main listing of all of the tweets that have come down.
[32:14.800 --> 32:18.820]  And then there are people who just follow pound CNN fail, and they're just waiting for any kind of update for that?
[32:18.820 --> 32:19.080]  Yeah.
[32:19.160 --> 32:30.420]  I mean, the cool thing is that basically, I mean, what people were saying was, in the first couple of hours this was happening, people were saying CNN fail is covering, I think it was the digital transition, or something, you know, else that's really pathetic like that.
[32:30.560 --> 32:30.800]  Uh-huh.
[32:30.980 --> 32:32.980]  And they weren't covering the fact that...
[32:32.980 --> 32:33.800]  Is that a shot at us?
[32:34.060 --> 32:35.160]  Uh, maybe.
[32:35.160 --> 32:35.580]  I think it might have been.
[32:35.600 --> 32:37.840]  How can I be, if it's a shot at myself, it's a shot at us.
[32:37.900 --> 32:38.260]  I mean, honestly.
[32:38.380 --> 32:38.700]  Well, yeah.
[32:38.820 --> 32:39.340]  It's ricocheting.
[32:39.480 --> 32:40.180]  Yeah, exactly.
[32:40.340 --> 32:41.700]  It's like, nobody's clear.
[32:42.800 --> 32:56.860]  So yeah, I mean, it was, that was interesting that specifically, I mean, because we were sort of, anybody who, any of us who worked on IndyMedia, sort of IndyMedia itself was CNN fail, ultimately, because it was sort of saying, you know, mainstream media aren't covering what people are actually saying.
[32:57.220 --> 33:03.580]  And to see this now applied to a protest was like, huh, well, yeah, when it's in Iran, you know.
[33:03.660 --> 33:05.020]  I mean, this is very serious, obviously.
[33:05.140 --> 33:05.960]  But why are they blaming CNN?
[33:06.000 --> 33:07.380]  I've seen coverage of this on CNN.
[33:07.540 --> 33:08.620]  In fact, that's where I found out about it on CNN.
[33:08.620 --> 33:12.220]  Because, I mean, for a while there, CNN was not covering this as well as people would have liked.
[33:12.560 --> 33:12.700]  Uh-huh.
[33:12.760 --> 33:17.640]  And maybe it was just, you know, obviously they had to put something else on the air, but, you know, it's a 24-hour news cycle.
[33:17.800 --> 33:20.540]  They, there's, there's plenty to cover, and they really could have been covering Iran more.
[33:20.640 --> 33:22.480]  But, yeah, CNN's come around, ultimately.
[33:23.400 --> 33:28.040]  Wasn't, uh, Iran kicking out, uh, mainstream reporters from stations like CNN?
[33:28.320 --> 33:28.840]  I'm not certain.
[33:29.120 --> 33:29.460]  I'm actually...
[33:29.460 --> 33:30.760]  Because I know they were to some degree.
[33:30.800 --> 33:31.640]  I don't know when it started.
[33:31.780 --> 33:36.220]  Well, they've forbidden people from, uh, or, uh, news organizations from covering any demonstrations.
[33:36.680 --> 33:37.000]  So...
[33:37.000 --> 33:37.300]  Yeah.
[33:37.300 --> 33:37.760]  That's that.
[33:37.860 --> 33:38.340]  That's the end of it.
[33:38.460 --> 33:38.580]  Right.
[33:38.640 --> 33:45.500]  So then you, I mean, then, then Twitter becomes very useful because you do have people on the street who are able to say, um, you know, we're going to mobilize over here.
[33:45.640 --> 33:51.420]  Actually, that's sort of not the best, um, practice because then, you know, anybody can hear it, but they're also able to say, we just saw a guy got shot.
[33:51.420 --> 33:52.660]  Here's a link to our YouTube video.
[33:52.760 --> 33:57.040]  Okay, but, but, what happens if somebody says, we just saw a guy get shot and it didn't really happen?
[33:57.280 --> 33:58.600]  You're spreading this around with Twitter.
[33:58.760 --> 34:00.800]  People are going to believe things that aren't necessarily true.
[34:01.000 --> 34:03.000]  How do you differentiate what's true and what's, what's not true?
[34:03.060 --> 34:17.180]  What I find really interesting about this whole thing is that most of the conversation has been about what people are saying in English, uh, and it's what people who speak English by and large, uh, are not in Iran.
[34:17.180 --> 34:18.480]  And so I'm really...
[34:18.480 --> 34:19.960]  And you see the signs of the demonstrations.
[34:19.960 --> 34:20.700]  They're in English.
[34:20.800 --> 34:21.660]  Yeah, I saw that.
[34:21.740 --> 34:22.140]  That was strange.
[34:22.160 --> 34:35.740]  I'm really unclear as to, like, how I'm supposed to learn anything from this whole Twitter thing, given that I, I don't speak Persian and I don't have any contacts in Iran who I trust.
[34:35.900 --> 34:36.720]  Google language tools.
[34:37.100 --> 34:38.900]  Probably should translate Arabic by now.
[34:38.900 --> 34:39.460]  Well, I've actually...
[34:39.460 --> 34:40.960]  Persian, they speak in Iran.
[34:41.180 --> 34:41.560]  Sorry.
[34:41.760 --> 34:43.000]  But, but...
[34:43.000 --> 34:43.380]  But...
[34:43.380 --> 34:43.740]  Farsi.
[34:44.080 --> 34:44.400]  Farsi.
[34:44.600 --> 34:49.040]  I was told by, by a Persian speaker that the correct term in English is Persian.
[34:49.240 --> 34:49.660]  But I don't know.
[34:49.660 --> 34:51.200]  Why on Twitter or are you told in person?
[34:51.220 --> 34:51.800]  In real life.
[34:51.900 --> 34:52.020]  Okay.
[34:52.020 --> 34:53.860]  But I don't want to have an argument about that in particular.
[34:54.400 --> 35:05.020]  Um, but it, it just seems like, uh, you know, there seems to be near consensus in the West about, uh, who the good guy is in this election.
[35:05.020 --> 35:11.780]  And, and that always worries me if I'm supposed to agree with people who I never agree with, uh, in the rest of my life.
[35:12.300 --> 35:21.500]  But, um, and then you just get Westerners arguing back and forth in English, or not even back and forth, just in one direction.
[35:21.680 --> 35:24.840]  There's, there's this real universalism of opinion in the West.
[35:25.320 --> 35:27.660]  And I, I just don't find any of it reliable.
[35:27.900 --> 35:28.860]  No, I, I agree with that.
[35:28.940 --> 35:34.160]  And also the other fact that a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that the president in that country has no power anyway.
[35:34.420 --> 35:37.720]  So no matter who you elect, they're going to have to answer to the supreme religious leader.
[35:38.060 --> 35:42.520]  I mean, ultimately, yeah, there's huge issues with this as any other part of the internet.
[35:42.700 --> 35:44.580]  How do we know what's actually going on on the ground?
[35:44.720 --> 35:46.000]  And then ultimately, how do we interpret it?
[35:46.060 --> 35:46.700]  How do we act on it?
[35:46.740 --> 35:47.260]  How does that matter?
[35:47.420 --> 35:50.060]  But, um, I mean, you know, ultimately, yeah, I'm not acting on it.
[35:50.160 --> 35:51.480]  So I'm just, I'm seeing what's there.
[35:51.680 --> 35:52.800]  In there, in Tehran.
[35:52.920 --> 35:53.000]  Yeah.
[35:53.160 --> 35:56.800]  People are communicating using, uh, using their phones, using Twitter.
[35:56.800 --> 35:57.060]  Uh-huh.
[35:57.240 --> 36:00.020]  So they're, internally at least, this is significant.
[36:00.220 --> 36:00.320]  Right.
[36:00.400 --> 36:00.580]  Correct?
[36:00.880 --> 36:05.060]  Now, I had heard that, um, that, uh, phone service had been cut off.
[36:05.320 --> 36:06.620]  That it was impossible to communicate.
[36:06.620 --> 36:08.020]  But apparently that's not the case anymore.
[36:08.340 --> 36:10.420]  That seems, it seems to go up and down throughout the weekend.
[36:10.420 --> 36:12.540]  But if they just turned the phones off, how would people communicate?
[36:12.720 --> 36:14.300]  It seems like it's very easy to control this.
[36:14.700 --> 36:15.060]  Emmanuel.
[36:15.260 --> 36:15.740]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[36:15.740 --> 36:20.340]  I had read, and again, we don't know for sure what any of these reports are true.
[36:20.680 --> 36:23.520]  I'd, I'd seen reports from several media outlets.
[36:23.600 --> 36:27.380]  And again, it could be just the media echo chamber reporting the same stuff that they're all reporting together.
[36:27.700 --> 36:30.240]  But, uh, I'd heard that phone service was down for a while.
[36:30.640 --> 36:32.280]  Mobile phone service was down for a while.
[36:32.600 --> 36:34.020]  But then mobile phone service went up.
[36:34.020 --> 36:40.600]  But, uh, the, uh, uh, text messaging, SMS was, uh, was shut down for a while.
[36:40.780 --> 36:48.740]  And the internet access remained up, uh, but access to, uh, certain social networking sites was, uh, made more difficult.
[36:49.040 --> 36:53.840]  So that would be worth, I think that would be worth exploring, uh, trying out really what happened.
[36:54.020 --> 37:04.520]  Because it's really interesting if a government, or when a government, uh, finds, uh, some social unrest going on, uh, that puts certain, uh, people in power at risk of losing that power.
[37:05.060 --> 37:11.900]  Uh, the government being able to shut down certain communications technologies to prevent people from communicating and organizing, um, I find that fascinating.
[37:11.900 --> 37:14.340]  And I'd like to find out more about what really happened.
[37:14.520 --> 37:26.920]  I heard a similar, uh, thing off of various, uh, news outlets that, about that they actually were having, uh, um, they were trying to shut down, uh, access to certain social networking, uh, services like Twitter.
[37:26.920 --> 37:35.540]  However, the people who are making use of these things are very, um, resilient in their will to, uh, to not give in to this.
[37:35.680 --> 37:41.220]  And so they're using third party, uh, services that'll, that'll reroute their text messages to Twitter.
[37:41.380 --> 37:42.840]  And I understand it's something we can help with.
[37:43.040 --> 37:43.300]  Yeah.
[37:43.480 --> 37:50.340]  Um, I actually, I don't have the document with me, but we had, there was a PDF released, um, which basically said what you can do and what you can't do to help.
[37:50.620 --> 37:54.040]  Um, but here's the thing, here's the thing about the PDF.
[37:54.140 --> 37:56.360]  The PDF, again, is written in English by Westerners.
[37:56.920 --> 37:58.740]  I don't, I don't understand why this is supposed to be reliable.
[37:58.760 --> 38:00.340]  Wait, how do you know it's by Westerners just because it's in English?
[38:00.440 --> 38:02.880]  There are plenty of people who are over there who also speak English.
[38:03.120 --> 38:04.540]  And they, they want us to help apparently.
[38:04.620 --> 38:04.780]  Yeah.
[38:05.000 --> 38:06.020]  And then like, and the signs are in English.
[38:06.140 --> 38:10.240]  I mean like, um, like a lot of the organization, organizing is going on at universities.
[38:10.400 --> 38:11.820]  There are plenty of English literate people.
[38:11.920 --> 38:15.380]  And that seems to be a tactic as I've seen and protests around the world now.
[38:15.380 --> 38:17.800]  Same thing with the, um, reporters in Korea.
[38:18.060 --> 38:28.780]  Uh, there are signs in both Korean and in English because if it hits the American news media or the English news, um, English language news media, um, you know, it's easier for Westerners to understand it if it's in English or French.
[38:28.780 --> 38:38.620]  I don't know specifically the document that you were looking at, but I've seen many documents written, identifying the author as a Westerner, explaining what I can allegedly do to help.
[38:38.780 --> 38:39.020]  Sure.
[38:39.880 --> 38:39.900]  Um.
[38:40.040 --> 38:41.380]  I'm not sure if that's what I just threw at you.
[38:41.380 --> 38:42.340]  Yeah, this is, this is the one.
[38:42.520 --> 38:45.960]  This actually, uh, this is a, from .co.uk.
[38:46.380 --> 38:52.280]  Um, and, but the, interestingly, the URL begins Reinekanen, which to me looks like it's Finnish actually.
[38:52.460 --> 38:54.100]  So that's sort of, who knows where this is coming from.
[38:54.200 --> 38:55.640]  The Finns are just getting their hands on everything, aren't they?
[38:55.700 --> 38:56.700]  Yeah, well, Mark's not here today.
[38:56.800 --> 38:57.300]  He might be able to.
[38:57.300 --> 38:58.080]  How do you spell that?
[38:58.620 --> 39:05.880]  Uh, R-E-I-N-I-K-A-I-N-E-N.co.uk.
[39:06.140 --> 39:06.340]  Okay.
[39:06.580 --> 39:09.980]  Um, and, um, and the URL goes on and on from there.
[39:10.060 --> 39:15.420]  And some of the, some of the, uh, shortened URLs that I saw for this actually were, had gone down and so they weren't good anymore.
[39:15.580 --> 39:27.060]  But, um, you know, among the things that are being advised by this document, and who knows if it's true, um, do not publicize proxy IPs over Twitter because that obviously makes it easier for them to be monitored and then taken down.
[39:27.500 --> 39:29.960]  So authorities are actually monitoring Twitter.
[39:30.400 --> 39:33.040]  I mean, that's, uh, that's what they're, the sole job is to monitor Twitter.
[39:33.140 --> 39:35.100]  It just sounds so crazy that we've arrived at this.
[39:35.100 --> 39:41.020]  One of the things I heard was that the State Department actually got in touch with people at Twitter because Twitter was going to go down at 2 p.m.
[39:41.160 --> 39:45.980]  or, uh, at some, sometime, um, that was actually not beneficial for people.
[39:46.080 --> 39:47.180]  It was midday for Iran.
[39:47.320 --> 39:49.460]  It was in the middle of the night for, um, the U.S.
[39:49.980 --> 39:55.060]  And, um, among, you know, the first, the protestors started saying, get Twitter not to go down at that hour.
[39:55.300 --> 40:00.060]  Um, and then, um, you know, ostensibly the protestors, whoever we think were the protestors.
[40:00.240 --> 40:10.280]  And then, uh, the story was that apparently the State Department also contacted Twitter and said, and that was in a journalistic article, as I remember, um, and said, you know, uh, please don't go down at this hour.
[40:10.380 --> 40:17.120]  So Twitter actually rescheduled their maintenance time, despite the fact that they were, it was actually their server that needed, you know, the people hosting their server farm that needed them to go down.
[40:17.300 --> 40:20.500]  Yeah, I saw that notice and I was wondering how that might affect things over in Iran.
[40:20.860 --> 40:24.180]  Um, the one thing that I really wonder about all this, I've only started using Twitter recently.
[40:24.300 --> 40:33.200]  Some of you have been on there longer, but, um, watching the, uh, watching the Iran election tags and, uh, other things, it, there is just so much out there jamming the radar now.
[40:33.340 --> 40:35.820]  You don't know what's coming from where everything's retweeted from somewhere else.
[40:35.820 --> 40:41.120]  What, what are the ways you use to actually, uh, parse through what you're reading and make some sense out of the whole mess?
[40:41.260 --> 40:43.240]  I mean, there's, there's some sort of interesting things.
[40:43.360 --> 40:47.960]  One of the things I was thinking about was that, um, yeah, we did hear from time to time that Twitter was being blocked.
[40:48.160 --> 40:52.740]  I found it interesting to follow the traffic patterns on Twitter and see how many tweets I was getting.
[40:52.960 --> 41:01.860]  It could mean that things are just getting quieter over there or with whoever, or that somebody is mimicking patterns, but it could be that, you know, the, the stream is being choked off and throttled at some point.
[41:01.980 --> 41:02.740]  And so we are hearing less.
[41:02.740 --> 41:06.420]  There was one, um, what appeared to be a, a news source in Tehran.
[41:06.600 --> 41:08.020]  Um, it might've been a community journalist.
[41:08.240 --> 41:14.420]  Um, but that, uh, particular Twitter stream went down routinely, um, or was, was, was throttled back at times.
[41:14.580 --> 41:17.280]  Um, and so that appeared to be maybe indicating what was going on.
[41:17.500 --> 41:18.660]  Um, but I don't know.
[41:18.760 --> 41:20.500]  I mean, you know, it's, what are our criteria?
[41:20.640 --> 41:24.200]  My other criterion is, you know, does it look like it came from the street?
[41:24.200 --> 41:26.200]  You know, there are things that are more interesting to people on the street.
[41:26.340 --> 41:29.300]  Like there are cops outside or there is tear gas outside.
[41:29.640 --> 41:40.740]  Um, whereas something like, um, you know, the location of, um, a head of state or, um, where a protest is going to be, I think is more interesting for, um, higher up powers to twiddle with.
[41:40.740 --> 41:43.980]  Because if you can mess that up, you can mess up the protest itself.
[41:44.140 --> 41:51.520]  Whereas if you say, you know, there's, well, actually the same thing if, if there's cops outside, um, you know, that could also be, have a chilling effect on people in the street.
[41:51.740 --> 42:01.480]  Uh, talking about, uh, government surveillance of Twitter, uh, I remember hearing about another way to help out would, would be for people all around the world to change their location to Tehran.
[42:01.920 --> 42:13.680]  Uh, therefore making it harder for the authorities to figure out what tweets are coming from Iran, um, Iranian citizens and then make it, then have a harder time, uh, well...
[42:13.680 --> 42:16.020]  Do they base that just on your word that you're in Tehran?
[42:16.120 --> 42:18.520]  I thought it was based on IPs that, uh, they figured that out.
[42:18.520 --> 42:20.080]  This is, uh, just something I heard.
[42:20.160 --> 42:24.620]  I, I personally don't have a Twitter account, so I'll defer to the, uh, Twitter...
[42:24.620 --> 42:25.420]  Yeah, I don't know.
[42:25.560 --> 42:26.740]  I mean, like, I, I, I don't know.
[42:27.160 --> 42:28.920]  I wouldn't know either if that was happening.
[42:29.100 --> 42:30.460]  Or use a proxy if that's the case.
[42:30.460 --> 42:37.880]  If the idea was that the, the government was going after individual Twitter accounts, then yes, it'd be, it'd be easier to identify the ones that are in Tehran that way, but I'm not sure if that's what's happening.
[42:37.900 --> 42:45.840]  I can only imagine activists of the past in the 1960s hearing this conversation, uh, back then, wondering what in God's name has happened.
[42:45.980 --> 42:53.060]  We're talking about Twittering and, and, uh, sites being, being monitored by authorities, and it's just, it's, I mean, the idea is still there.
[42:53.380 --> 42:54.760]  The mentality is the same.
[42:55.000 --> 42:59.360]  You know, people are trying to get information out and organize, but it's just, wow, it's, it's...
[42:59.360 --> 42:59.780]  Well, but...
[42:59.780 --> 43:00.800]  Are we surprised by this?
[43:00.920 --> 43:03.420]  People always use the technology that's available to them.
[43:03.680 --> 43:03.740]  Right.
[43:03.740 --> 43:07.280]  You know, in the 60s, it was a mimeograph machine or whatever.
[43:07.640 --> 43:09.880]  If I'm off by 20 years, one way or the other, I apologize.
[43:10.160 --> 43:13.000]  But, but, you know, well, people always use the technology that's available to them.
[43:13.000 --> 43:16.500]  Fax machines during Tiananmen Square, people were trying to jam those and...
[43:16.500 --> 43:16.700]  Is it Emmanuel?
[43:17.060 --> 43:17.640]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[43:18.160 --> 43:35.580]  Um, I heard, along that, along that thread, uh, I heard a reporter, I think it was an NPR reporter who was reporting, um, from Iran a few days ago, a couple days ago, who said that, uh, after, uh, access to Twitter was, uh, made more difficult, um, and actually not Twitter,
[43:35.700 --> 43:51.740]  I'm sorry, after, uh, uh, the, uh, text messaging, uh, was, SMS messaging was made more difficult, or not available at all, that, uh, that night, the night of the, uh, I guess the night after, uh, the announcement was that the, the, uh, incumbent, uh,
[43:51.840 --> 43:59.540]  remained in power, uh, people were standing on their rooftops shouting, uh, where there was going to be a protest and so forth.
[43:59.620 --> 44:01.300]  It was just sort of like a smoke signal kind of thing.
[44:01.400 --> 44:02.600]  People would shout from one rooftop.
[44:02.900 --> 44:03.080]  Wow.
[44:03.160 --> 44:04.160]  That's somebody at a few rooftops.
[44:04.200 --> 44:05.120]  New technology there.
[44:05.300 --> 44:05.340]  Wow.
[44:05.780 --> 44:06.040]  Yeah.
[44:06.240 --> 44:08.100]  The use of technology in the, in the, in the message.
[44:08.240 --> 44:10.180]  So they were, they were tweeting off their roofs.
[44:10.460 --> 44:10.720]  Right.
[44:10.720 --> 44:18.140]  And it was in the message were spreading across the city from rooftop to rooftop, which I thought was an interesting use of, uh, some of the oldest technology around.
[44:18.320 --> 44:24.440]  Now, if, if Twitter does get blocked, uh, in a particular country or particular city, how hard is it?
[44:24.600 --> 44:27.820]  I mean, the, the, the idea behind Twitter is, is, is amazingly simple.
[44:28.240 --> 44:33.980]  How hard is it for somebody to simply start something else and spread word about that and, and just replace it?
[44:34.120 --> 44:35.740]  The, the answer is it's not very hard at all.
[44:35.740 --> 44:41.240]  There's a free software like Laconica that can basically create Twitter clones, uh, fairly easily.
[44:41.420 --> 44:44.520]  But the issue is that, uh, you have to get people to know about them.
[44:44.800 --> 44:45.000]  Uh huh.
[44:45.100 --> 44:45.260]  Yeah.
[44:45.320 --> 44:45.700]  That's the thing.
[44:45.780 --> 44:47.520]  How do you get the word out to, to people?
[44:48.200 --> 44:58.060]  Well, from what I've heard so far, a lot of people in, uh, Iran are already depending on that because they can't necessarily, uh, easily Twitter to the real.
[44:58.060 --> 44:59.360]  Twitter has to be rerouted.
[44:59.360 --> 44:59.540]  Right.
[44:59.660 --> 45:02.020]  So they have to make something else and, and then get word out.
[45:02.180 --> 45:06.360]  So for all we know, a traffic could be quieting down because some clones may not be plugged in.
[45:06.520 --> 45:10.500]  Now, Mike, you mentioned, uh, a, a way of getting this, this clone type software.
[45:10.620 --> 45:11.440]  What, what, what is that exactly?
[45:11.660 --> 45:12.620]  It's called Laconica.
[45:12.800 --> 45:16.920]  I don't know a whole lot about it, so I don't want to start making stuff up, but people can look for it.
[45:17.180 --> 45:18.100]  How do you spell Laconica?
[45:18.300 --> 45:18.560]  What kind?
[45:18.600 --> 45:21.600]  L-A-C-O-N-I-C-A.
[45:21.720 --> 45:22.000]  Okay.
[45:22.020 --> 45:22.860]  We'll see about that.
[45:22.940 --> 45:23.320]  I could be wrong.
[45:23.500 --> 45:23.800]  All right.
[45:24.060 --> 45:26.680]  Uh, our firm number, by the way, is 212-209-2900.
[45:26.680 --> 45:29.160]  We're taking phone calls on this and, and other topics.
[45:29.440 --> 45:34.220]  So, uh, then I guess the revolution is happening in 140 characters or less.
[45:34.620 --> 45:35.680]  It would seem so.
[45:36.240 --> 45:40.580]  And it would be, uh, would be digitized as well and all that kind of thing.
[45:40.640 --> 45:42.340]  I think they did put that on a t-shirt, actually.
[45:42.480 --> 45:42.920]  Sorry, say that again?
[45:43.060 --> 45:45.360]  I think they did put that on a t-shirt, actually, already.
[45:45.940 --> 45:46.280]  Did they?
[45:47.000 --> 45:48.660]  It just means so much more now.
[45:49.280 --> 45:49.620]  All right.
[45:49.960 --> 45:52.120]  Uh, 212-209-2900.
[45:52.320 --> 45:56.660]  And of course, we are continuing to, uh, celebrate North Korea's ascension into the world.
[45:56.660 --> 45:57.560]  World Cup in 2010.
[45:57.960 --> 45:58.980]  There's nothing funny, Dot, right?
[45:59.040 --> 45:59.720]  This is serious.
[46:00.020 --> 46:02.020]  And, uh, the last time this happened was 1966.
[46:02.500 --> 46:03.560]  It's funny in a very serious way.
[46:03.620 --> 46:05.320]  And they made it all the way to the quarterfinals then, too.
[46:05.680 --> 46:10.480]  And, uh, yeah, it's a little sappy, I know, but, uh, it's a great day over there.
[46:10.760 --> 46:11.200]  It really is.
[46:11.420 --> 46:16.320]  Is it, uh, perhaps too early for me to ask if you have a North Korean telephone song for the end of the show?
[46:16.440 --> 46:17.860]  Uh, no, you know, I was looking for one.
[46:17.860 --> 46:21.980]  And the internet can find a lot of things, but it cannot, cannot find a North Korean telephone song.
[46:22.120 --> 46:22.500]  I tried.
[46:22.560 --> 46:22.960]  I really did.
[46:23.500 --> 46:25.780]  And, you know, I've looked through my whole North Korean selection.
[46:25.920 --> 46:28.740]  It's very hard to, to browse through it quickly, but, uh, I don't think there are any.
[46:28.900 --> 46:31.460]  I can't understand the words, but no phone sound effects.
[46:31.600 --> 46:32.040]  How sad.
[46:32.360 --> 46:33.540]  But it's not too early in North Korea.
[46:33.640 --> 46:36.800]  If anyone there wants to call us, it's, uh, I think 746 in the morning over there.
[46:37.120 --> 46:38.560]  Exactly 12 hours ahead of us.
[46:39.060 --> 46:43.400]  And people there are, I'm sure, spontaneously bursting into song and dance in the streets.
[46:43.400 --> 46:47.820]  All right, uh, 212-209-2900, let's, um, let's take a phone call.
[46:49.340 --> 46:50.000]  Good evening.
[46:50.520 --> 46:51.340]  You're on off the hook.
[46:51.960 --> 46:54.320]  Yeah, I've had a Twitter account for about 10 years now.
[46:54.560 --> 46:54.760]  Oh my goodness.
[46:55.320 --> 46:56.200]  Do you know who that is?
[46:56.320 --> 46:57.160]  Do you recognize that voice?
[46:57.380 --> 46:58.120]  I recognize that voice.
[46:58.140 --> 46:58.860]  You recognize that voice?
[46:59.000 --> 47:00.440]  Gus, you've never heard this voice before.
[47:00.560 --> 47:01.560]  You've, can you believe this?
[47:01.900 --> 47:03.880]  Rebel, she's never heard your voice before, isn't it?
[47:04.000 --> 47:04.200]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[47:04.220 --> 47:04.700]  Isn't that something?
[47:04.820 --> 47:05.540]  I forgot her name.
[47:05.600 --> 47:06.720]  I forgot her name, but...
[47:06.720 --> 47:08.460]  Well, hopefully it'll stay that way.
[47:09.000 --> 47:10.420]  Uh, what's, what's on your mind?
[47:10.420 --> 47:14.660]  Back in the 90s, I had a Twitter account, and I was just using it for like, you know...
[47:14.660 --> 47:16.740]  Wasn't that before Twitter even existed, you had a Twitter account?
[47:17.040 --> 47:21.180]  No, Twitter, Twitter's been on since like 1999, 2000, something like that.
[47:21.320 --> 47:21.540]  Wow.
[47:21.660 --> 47:28.820]  Well, I know Joe King, who's coming on after us on the personal computer show, has a story about when he first got involved with Twitter, and I think it was, uh, more recent than that.
[47:28.880 --> 47:30.100]  I don't know if it was back in the 90s.
[47:30.100 --> 47:31.280]  That seems a little far-fetched.
[47:31.880 --> 47:32.740]  Uh, how have you been, Rebel?
[47:32.940 --> 47:34.780]  Are, are you, uh, staying out of trouble, I hope?
[47:34.920 --> 47:35.520]  Yeah, of course.
[47:35.740 --> 47:39.700]  Uh, I've been working, so I couldn't really call in or come to 2600 meetings.
[47:39.700 --> 47:40.960]  Oh, well, work is good then.
[47:41.260 --> 47:44.320]  You know, the good economy is just keeping people at work now, you know?
[47:44.540 --> 47:44.780]  Uh-huh.
[47:44.860 --> 47:53.040]  I guess it used to be, you know, I come to 2600 meetings on Friday afternoons, and, you know, you know, even listening to Off the Hook, but, you know...
[47:53.040 --> 47:53.260]  Uh-huh.
[47:53.380 --> 47:58.020]  Um, you know, I just, uh, things have been getting busy here where I'm working, and, uh...
[47:58.020 --> 48:01.300]  It was so good catching up again, and, uh, we must do this again sometime soon.
[48:01.740 --> 48:03.100]  Uh, let's go on to another...
[48:03.100 --> 48:04.620]  Oh, I'm sorry, it seems to have left us.
[48:04.620 --> 48:06.000]  Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
[48:06.180 --> 48:06.480]  Go ahead.
[48:07.360 --> 48:07.680]  Hello?
[48:07.940 --> 48:08.660]  Yes, what's on your mind?
[48:09.100 --> 48:10.200]  Well, I would...
[48:10.200 --> 48:15.600]  I, uh, want to comment on this issue about Twitter and the authenticity of the posts.
[48:15.780 --> 48:18.080]  Okay, just turn down your radio, and you can do... you can do just that.
[48:18.140 --> 48:18.700]  You're on the air now.
[48:19.280 --> 48:19.640]  Okay.
[48:19.820 --> 48:20.060]  Go ahead.
[48:20.060 --> 48:26.100]  Um, I, I just happened to be listening and at the same time reading something on the web that was sort of related to this.
[48:26.380 --> 48:40.080]  Uh, there's a website who, charting stocks, their normal mission is to chart stocks, but it happened that they were curious in exactly the same way you are about whether the... about the authenticity of the posts.
[48:40.080 --> 48:42.100]  And they did some investigation.
[48:42.100 --> 48:43.640]  And they did some investigation, and this is what they claim.
[48:43.920 --> 48:59.400]  They said that they have... they... that their investigation shows that, um, let me see, I am... I decided to... I narrowed it down to a handful of people who had accounted for 30,000 Iran-related tweets in the past few days.
[48:59.400 --> 49:02.520]  Each of them had something strikingly similar.
[49:02.880 --> 49:07.260]  Each of them had created their Twitter accounts on Saturday, June 13th.
[49:07.500 --> 49:12.040]  Each had extremely high number of tweets since creating their profiles.
[49:12.620 --> 49:18.720]  Iran election was each of their most popular keyword, with some very small exceptions.
[49:18.720 --> 49:20.460]  Each were posting in English.
[49:20.740 --> 49:24.420]  Half of them had exactly the same profile photo.
[49:24.740 --> 49:28.900]  Each had thousands of followers with only a few friends.
[49:28.900 --> 49:31.280]  Most of their friends were each other.
[49:32.120 --> 49:32.680]  Interesting.
[49:33.160 --> 49:37.180]  And it says, I narrowed the spammers down to three of the most persistent.
[49:37.180 --> 49:41.380]  I could read more, but I think this is important, not knowing the technology.
[49:41.660 --> 49:52.020]  And he gives, um, at stop, uh, am a date at, uh, Iran rigged election at change underscore for underscore Iran.
[49:52.200 --> 49:54.480]  And then he gives a few others as well.
[49:54.700 --> 49:56.540]  And I've seen, we've seen a couple of those.
[49:56.540 --> 49:57.700]  That is a really good point.
[49:57.740 --> 50:01.020]  And that's the beginning, I think, of really good efforts to understand what's going on.
[50:01.160 --> 50:05.680]  I think what we need now, and I don't know how to do this, is to begin to tie those to domains.
[50:05.820 --> 50:10.100]  Where are those, um, you know, addresses tweeting from?
[50:10.280 --> 50:11.540]  And who can help us figure that out?
[50:11.620 --> 50:12.560]  Because I think that's important.
[50:12.560 --> 50:13.060]  Yes.
[50:13.380 --> 50:18.620]  And I think this, that's sort of what, where this guy was going, which of course is what the press should be doing, but never do.
[50:19.100 --> 50:19.340]  Yeah.
[50:19.420 --> 50:23.480]  The press is just basically catching onto Twitter about now and figuring out what that's all about, let alone this.
[50:24.080 --> 50:24.680]  Uh, thanks for your call.
[50:24.940 --> 50:25.380]  You're welcome.
[50:25.580 --> 50:25.840]  All right.
[50:26.140 --> 50:28.280]  212-229-2900.
[50:28.520 --> 50:28.860]  Good evening.
[50:29.040 --> 50:29.760]  You're on off the hook.
[50:30.640 --> 50:31.280]  Yes, sir.
[50:31.540 --> 50:31.920]  Speak up.
[50:32.400 --> 50:35.980]  The first song that you play is at the National Anthem of North Korea.
[50:36.120 --> 50:38.040]  No, I would not play the National Anthem and speak over it.
[50:38.140 --> 50:39.820]  That's, uh, that would be unwise.
[50:40.100 --> 50:43.380]  Uh, no, it's, it's various, uh, patriotic and inspirational songs.
[50:43.600 --> 50:44.700]  Can I have that song, please?
[50:44.900 --> 50:46.120]  I don't know the name of it.
[50:46.140 --> 50:46.540]  I'm sorry.
[50:46.800 --> 50:51.720]  I just have a whole CD of, of just, they're numbers, but, uh, they're just numbers of tracks.
[50:51.860 --> 50:52.980]  I'm, I don't have the names.
[50:53.060 --> 50:53.340]  I'm sorry.
[50:53.380 --> 50:53.880]  I wish I did.
[50:54.020 --> 50:54.400]  I really do.
[50:54.860 --> 50:55.620]  Uh, good evening.
[50:55.760 --> 50:56.580]  You're on off the hook.
[50:58.180 --> 50:58.860]  Speak up, please.
[50:59.640 --> 51:00.100]  You there?
[51:00.760 --> 51:01.080]  Okay.
[51:01.920 --> 51:02.840]  We're going to move on to another call then.
[51:03.040 --> 51:03.340]  Good evening.
[51:03.500 --> 51:04.180]  You're on off the hook.
[51:04.780 --> 51:04.960]  Hi.
[51:05.060 --> 51:05.740]  Good, uh, good evening.
[51:05.900 --> 51:06.180]  How are you doing?
[51:06.680 --> 51:08.540]  Uh, a couple of things I might have observed.
[51:08.760 --> 51:15.180]  Um, it's too bad that Bernie has to click into Canada, because I understand that, uh, Canada does not have to go digital until 2011.
[51:15.720 --> 51:16.360]  Yeah, you could go.
[51:16.460 --> 51:18.540]  Was that why you were going up there, Bernie, to watch analog TV?
[51:19.800 --> 51:20.560]  You caught me.
[51:20.640 --> 51:22.040]  That's exactly why I was going there.
[51:22.240 --> 51:24.080]  It was my portable analog TV set.
[51:24.120 --> 51:24.940]  I just couldn't help it.
[51:25.040 --> 51:25.900]  Oh, my God.
[51:26.320 --> 51:28.400]  And, um, Amazon had a site.
[51:28.460 --> 51:33.620]  I was up on Amazon trying to, uh, get a, um, uh, a last, uh, uh, last of a minute, uh, converter.
[51:34.220 --> 51:37.200]  And Amazon had an actual countdown clock, like New Year's Eve.
[51:37.360 --> 51:40.460]  Countdown to digital in hours, minutes, hours, minutes, and seconds.
[51:40.800 --> 51:42.000]  It may still be up there.
[51:42.100 --> 51:43.420]  It may be counting up plus now.
[51:44.280 --> 51:57.400]  Um, and, um, and I don't, as far as losing channels, uh, I know that cable vision of Woodbury, which serves a good chunk of NASA, uh, about a year ago, already dropped their public access channel, channel, channel 20.
[51:58.160 --> 52:02.440]  And also, um, about a month ago, uh, two, two other channels were dropped.
[52:03.860 --> 52:06.200]  MSNBC and, um, oh.
[52:07.040 --> 52:08.800]  MSNBC was dropped from, I don't think so.
[52:09.020 --> 52:09.260]  Yes.
[52:09.360 --> 52:09.840]  Yes, it was.
[52:09.960 --> 52:10.280]  Yes, it was.
[52:10.380 --> 52:14.200]  In fact, in its place, uh, they had a sign saying you need, you now need a box to receive.
[52:14.260 --> 52:14.580]  Oh, okay.
[52:14.580 --> 52:15.660]  If you don't have the box.
[52:15.860 --> 52:16.880]  Yeah, that's what I was referring to before.
[52:17.000 --> 52:17.540]  You need to have it.
[52:17.540 --> 52:18.380]  And C-span.
[52:18.500 --> 52:19.280]  Yeah, and C-span.
[52:19.340 --> 52:19.880]  C-span, okay.
[52:19.880 --> 52:28.120]  And also, uh, also, um, I think the money that's going to be made is not so much in the new ATSC tuners, but in good antennas.
[52:28.260 --> 52:37.740]  If you live in a fringe area or a marginal, such as maybe between 25 to 50 miles out of a transmitter, a good antenna is critical, and you may need a powered antenna.
[52:37.940 --> 52:39.880]  And that's where the money is going to be made.
[52:39.880 --> 52:41.560]  I think they're practically getting tuners away.
[52:42.780 --> 52:43.140]  Wow.
[52:43.360 --> 52:43.560]  Okay.
[52:43.700 --> 52:49.800]  Well, it sounds like it's getting difficult for somebody to, uh, just have a TV set in their house without all these other, uh, things they need to get it to run.
[52:50.140 --> 52:50.520]  That's right.
[52:50.640 --> 52:55.000]  Portables are a thing of the past unless you have a new powered antenna that's very ultra-compact.
[52:55.200 --> 52:55.460]  Uh-huh.
[52:55.780 --> 52:57.140]  Okay, thanks, uh, thanks for your call.
[52:57.520 --> 53:02.400]  Uh, actually, we, we, uh, got a letter from somebody, uh, who wrote to us at OTH at 2600.com.
[53:02.600 --> 53:05.120]  Uh, your last program discussed the end of analog TV.
[53:05.260 --> 53:08.300]  Actually, our last 50 programs discussed the end of analog TV.
[53:08.300 --> 53:10.600]  Uh, a couple of questions slash issues.
[53:10.820 --> 53:15.180]  Uh, is it true that the regular airwaves will now be turned over to law enforcement?
[53:15.280 --> 53:16.940]  Bernie, do you want to answer that question?
[53:17.380 --> 53:20.980]  Um, it's only, it's, it's a, it's a long answer to a short question.
[53:20.980 --> 53:22.380]  We'll make it a short answer to it, yeah.
[53:22.420 --> 53:22.640]  Very, very brief.
[53:22.980 --> 53:24.460]  Um, no, it's not, it's not true.
[53:24.580 --> 53:25.600]  Only a small portion.
[53:25.780 --> 53:44.480]  It may be at the most 20-some percent, uh, in the low 20 percent of that, of that spectrum in the 700, uh, low 80-meterhertz band of frequencies that were, uh, uh, freed up by, uh, channels, TV analog stations moving to lower UHF channels or some VHF channels moving to lower UHF channels.
[53:44.680 --> 53:52.280]  Some of those were sold off to companies like Verizon and AT&T, uh, by the FCC, uh, at an auction.
[53:52.580 --> 54:06.240]  And, uh, some of them were, a small portion of them were reallocated for public service, public safety use, but the radios and the technology to, the radios to, to use those frequencies for public safety won't be available for at least a couple of years.
[54:06.520 --> 54:06.920]  Interesting.
[54:06.920 --> 54:09.260]  And they're still squabbling as to how it's going to get deployed.
[54:09.560 --> 54:18.520]  And something else, uh, speaking of Verizon, uh, you might see those ads all over the place from cable companies saying that we offer New York 1 or we offer News 12 and Fios does not.
[54:18.700 --> 54:25.400]  Well, Verizon this week announced that they're going to be starting a station in New York called, uh, Verizon Fios 1, which is going to be a new station that's run by Verizon.
[54:25.400 --> 54:28.920]  So it just, uh, it never ends with, uh, the corporate competition here.
[54:29.060 --> 54:31.580]  Uh, we had one more letter from, uh, someone on this, uh, subject.
[54:31.860 --> 54:33.800]  Um, I live in the Rochester, New York area.
[54:33.960 --> 54:37.860]  You may find it interesting to know that I am still receiving some analog television signals.
[54:38.020 --> 54:40.660]  Uh, these signals are not coming from any of the major networks.
[54:41.120 --> 54:43.160]  Uh, I'm getting the home shopping network.
[54:43.320 --> 54:46.020]  It barely comes in, but there's a severely degraded picture without audio.
[54:46.560 --> 54:51.080]  Uh, PBS has something in Spanish on how to set up your converter box, which doesn't do the English speakers much good.
[54:51.600 --> 54:53.620]  Uh, there's a Christian channel.
[54:53.620 --> 54:55.760]  Uh, it comes in fuzzy with good quality audio.
[54:55.760 --> 54:56.780]  I never watched this before.
[54:56.820 --> 54:58.940]  So I don't know if it's coming in any better now than before.
[54:59.340 --> 55:03.540]  And then some other random channel that had a concert on at the time, which could be a Canadian channel.
[55:03.700 --> 55:07.200]  So, uh, this listener gets snow for all the other channels.
[55:07.200 --> 55:09.240]  So, definitely, uh, some changes.
[55:09.440 --> 55:12.060]  And, uh, I want to thank those people for sending in their observations.
[55:12.360 --> 55:14.240]  Let's see if we can squeeze in one or two more phone calls.
[55:14.380 --> 55:15.320]  212-209-2900.
[55:16.120 --> 55:16.420]  Good evening.
[55:16.680 --> 55:17.400]  You're on Off The Hook.
[55:18.320 --> 55:20.840]  Uh, yeah, I'll make three quick comments and then I'll hang up and listen.
[55:21.060 --> 55:26.960]  Uh, 87.7, which used to be Channel 6, uh, in Philly, is now a disco station in New York City.
[55:27.100 --> 55:28.120]  It's 87.7.
[55:28.120 --> 55:30.140]  Wait, you, you're able to get that in Philadelphia now?
[55:30.820 --> 55:33.120]  Uh, no, they're a disco station in New York.
[55:33.320 --> 55:34.620]  Uh, yeah, I live up in the Poconos.
[55:34.660 --> 55:35.300]  It's a pirate station.
[55:35.400 --> 55:36.440]  No, no, it's not a pirate station.
[55:36.580 --> 55:43.600]  It's, it's a low-power TV station broadcasting on Channel 6 that plays music and basically they sneak their way onto the FM dial doing this.
[55:43.680 --> 55:44.240]  It was very smart.
[55:44.520 --> 55:44.820]  Ah.
[55:45.060 --> 55:45.280]  Yeah.
[55:45.940 --> 55:46.300]  Also...
[55:46.300 --> 55:47.860]  I'm sorry, where are you located, caller?
[55:48.220 --> 55:51.280]  I'm in the Poconos, I think, most of the New York City stations.
[55:51.340 --> 55:54.180]  Okay, so yeah, that station has an amazing range at that frequency.
[55:54.760 --> 55:56.560]  Well, no, I mean, I'm talking about digital TV.
[55:56.560 --> 55:58.840]  I pick up digital TV out of New York at the Poconos.
[55:59.000 --> 55:59.080]  Okay.
[55:59.080 --> 56:02.940]  But I have to invest in an elaborate antenna and amplifier, as the guy before said.
[56:03.340 --> 56:03.560]  Mm-hmm.
[56:03.900 --> 56:07.100]  Uh, also, I lost Channel 7 and 11 during the switch.
[56:07.380 --> 56:07.880]  I'm sorry.
[56:08.440 --> 56:12.980]  And, um, you talk about the surveillance, uh, before last week.
[56:13.200 --> 56:17.600]  Isn't it kind of a joke to just talk about email and the telephones when they have, like...
[56:18.400 --> 56:22.260]  WBAI, New York, 99.5 FM.
[56:22.560 --> 56:22.780]  Okay.
[56:23.600 --> 56:26.920]  Uh, well, we had to, uh, uh, erase the end of that sentence.
[56:27.080 --> 56:32.340]  But, uh, basically, he's asking about satellite, um, um, monitoring of people.
[56:33.280 --> 56:34.640]  I'm sorry, we seem to have lost him as well.
[56:35.260 --> 56:36.440]  Uh, any, uh, any comments on that?
[56:36.520 --> 56:36.860]  All right.
[56:37.280 --> 56:42.620]  That only, that sounds like, uh, the NSA program Echelon, but that really doesn't have much to do with what we were talking about.
[56:42.620 --> 56:43.220]  Mm-hmm.
[56:43.360 --> 56:54.600]  Uh, what we were talking about is the government, you know, taking a look at Twitter's tweets and, uh, uh, uh, using that to get a heads up on the protests and so on.
[56:54.600 --> 56:55.600]  Hey, Manuel.
[56:56.080 --> 56:56.600]  Yes.
[56:57.000 --> 57:15.780]  Uh, very briefly, uh, with that, that, that last caller's last, uh, question, uh, just a week or two ago, Janet Napoliano, our, uh, our Director of Homeland Security, she basically, uh, just shut down, uh, uh, movement by, uh, state and local and federal law enforcement having access to,
[57:15.780 --> 57:24.500]  uh, uh, military, uh, surveillance, military optical surveillance satellites where, like, you know, imagery, satellite imagery.
[57:24.780 --> 57:34.160]  Uh, there was a program within the Department of Homeland Security that would allow local, state, and federal law enforcement to have access to, to basically national security type, uh, satellite imagery.
[57:34.560 --> 57:38.800]  And they, she basically just shut that down, saying there's been no oversight of this at all.
[57:38.960 --> 57:42.540]  This could be just a real mess since there's no oversight and she's not gonna let it happen.
[57:42.660 --> 57:43.080]  Okay.
[57:43.080 --> 57:45.280]  Unfortunately, we're just about out of time.
[57:45.840 --> 57:50.940]  And, um, yeah, you know, much as I want to play a North Korean song going out, um, we're not gonna do that.
[57:51.280 --> 58:00.500]  Uh, but we will, uh, say that we'll be back again next week talking about all kinds of other issues of importance to, um, uh, to the technological world, to the social world, things like that.
[58:00.600 --> 58:04.260]  You can write to us, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[58:05.120 --> 58:07.920]  And stay tuned for the personal computer show.
[58:08.620 --> 58:12.380]  And again, congratulations to the North Korean soccer team making it to the World Cup.
[58:12.380 --> 58:14.300]  But we're gonna go out with a song about phones instead.
[58:20.890 --> 58:22.090]  Don't hang up.
[58:22.210 --> 58:22.770]  Don't hang up.
[58:22.770 --> 58:23.150]  No, no.
[58:23.270 --> 58:24.990]  Oh, don't you do it now.
[58:25.230 --> 58:26.410]  Don't hang up.
[58:26.730 --> 58:27.470]  No, no.
[58:27.630 --> 58:27.850]  Hey.
[58:29.210 --> 58:31.290]  Don't hang up like you always do.
[58:31.530 --> 58:33.450]  Girl, you think I'm always true.
[58:33.810 --> 58:35.630]  Now this ain't just next to you.
[58:36.670 --> 58:38.070]  Don't hang up.
[58:38.070 --> 58:38.750]  Don't hang up.
[58:39.590 --> 58:42.710]  Give me a chance so I won't mess it through.
[58:44.630 --> 58:45.850]  Don't hang up.
[58:46.130 --> 58:46.910]  No, no.
[58:46.990 --> 58:48.710]  Oh, don't you do it now.
[58:48.950 --> 58:50.170]  Don't hang up.
[58:50.510 --> 58:51.250]  No, no.
[58:52.410 --> 58:54.910]  I took a walk with Mary Lou.
[58:54.910 --> 58:57.150]  Played around two bitches too.
[58:57.430 --> 58:59.270]  She had some boys I never knew.
[59:00.070 --> 59:24.870]  Don't hang up.
[59:24.870 --> 59:25.390]  Oh, no.
[59:27.110 --> 59:29.210]  You've got something sweet in you.
[59:29.450 --> 59:31.390]  I bet she got something with you.
[59:31.650 --> 59:33.690]  Don't dance like you always do.
[59:34.850 --> 59:36.610]  Don't hang up.
[59:37.630 --> 59:40.570]  You've got one chance of a romantic view.
[59:48.670 --> 59:49.910]  Then you walked in.
[59:50.570 --> 59:52.130]  And you were caught.
[59:53.290 --> 59:54.570]  Don't hang up.
[59:54.870 --> 59:55.690]  No, no.
[59:55.830 --> 59:57.510]  Don't you do it now.
[59:57.730 --> 59:58.910]  Don't hang up.
[59:59.230 --> 01:00:00.030]  No, no.
[01:00:01.370 --> 01:00:03.730]  I didn't say our love is true.
[01:00:03.970 --> 01:00:05.870]  What if we made a move or do?
[01:00:06.130 --> 01:00:07.990]  Making up is fun to do.
[01:00:08.930 --> 01:00:11.070]  Don't hang up.
[01:00:17.080 --> 01:00:18.180]  Don't hang up.
[01:00:21.310 --> 01:00:22.570]  Don't hang up.
[01:00:22.830 --> 01:00:25.730]  Oh, I love that song.
[01:00:25.730 --> 01:00:27.510]  But I'm going to have to hang up.
[01:00:27.510 --> 01:00:30.690]  Because it is now 8 p.m.
[01:00:30.830 --> 01:00:33.090]  Here at WBAI New York 99.5 FM.
[01:00:33.090 --> 01:00:34.990]  And it is June...
[01:00:35.730 --> 01:00:37.930]  The 17th, 2009.
[01:00:37.930 --> 01:00:38.010]  We are.
[01:00:38.030 --> 01:00:38.130]  And it is June...
[01:00:38.130 --> 01:00:38.150]  And it's June...
[01:00:38.250 --> 01:00:38.290]  Teget up is June 26.
[01:00:38.370 --> 01:00:38.390]  And it's June 26.
[01:00:38.550 --> 01:00:38.590]  It's June 26.