[00:00.820 --> 00:03.820]  You've been listening to Free Speech Radio News.
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[00:10.420 --> 00:13.800]  Today's newscast was produced by Catherine Komp and Vinod K.
[00:14.000 --> 00:14.400]  Joes.
[00:14.560 --> 00:16.140]  Headlines editor, Jess Burns.
[00:16.400 --> 00:22.020]  And the technical production team at KPFA in Berkeley includes Puck Lowe and Oscar Hernandez.
[00:22.440 --> 00:25.460]  From Bogota, Colombia, I'm Manuel Rueda.
[00:33.220 --> 00:37.200]  And you're listening to 99.5 FM, WBAI New York.
[00:37.400 --> 00:40.020]  It's 7pm, time for Off the Hook.
[01:36.060 --> 01:37.040]  And good evening.
[01:37.220 --> 01:38.480]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:38.820 --> 01:40.000]  Red Hacked here in the studio.
[01:40.000 --> 01:41.400]  I'm joined by Mike.
[01:41.520 --> 01:41.760]  Hi.
[01:42.160 --> 01:42.700]  Not Kevin.
[01:42.900 --> 01:43.220]  Hello.
[01:43.660 --> 01:43.860]  Jim.
[01:44.280 --> 01:44.520]  Hi.
[01:44.800 --> 01:45.240]  Rob T.
[01:45.360 --> 01:45.700]  Firefly.
[01:45.880 --> 01:46.240]  Good evening.
[01:46.940 --> 01:47.240]  Gus.
[01:47.500 --> 01:47.900]  Oh, hi.
[01:48.180 --> 01:50.080]  And on the phone, we have Bernie S.
[01:50.160 --> 01:50.580]  in Philadelphia.
[01:51.040 --> 01:52.220]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[01:52.660 --> 01:54.300]  And I believe we have Emmanuel.
[01:55.020 --> 01:56.060]  Yes, here I am.
[01:56.240 --> 02:00.600]  I'm actually standing under the boiling sun in a place called...
[02:00.600 --> 02:09.460]  Well, I should play on the side of Moses Lake, Washington, in preparation for the first ever American Hacker Camp called Tour Camp, which starts tomorrow.
[02:10.020 --> 02:13.840]  And I'm pretty much at the site of an abandoned missile silo.
[02:13.900 --> 02:19.600]  And I got to tell you, it's pretty weird and spooky exploring this place, but it's amazing, too, at the same time.
[02:22.280 --> 02:25.000]  What kind of stuff is... I mean, how's the setup out there?
[02:25.080 --> 02:27.520]  It's just... Is it all underground or is it above ground?
[02:27.620 --> 02:28.240]  How does it work?
[02:28.520 --> 02:32.540]  Well, the talks are going to be underground, but the camping is going to be above ground, obviously.
[02:33.200 --> 02:36.640]  And it's just basically right now, everyone is setting up.
[02:36.900 --> 02:40.140]  And it's just a really interesting scene.
[02:40.180 --> 02:42.340]  We actually have the chief coordinator with us.
[02:42.660 --> 02:43.420]  David joins us.
[02:43.700 --> 02:45.700]  He's talking on another phone down the road a little bit.
[02:45.780 --> 02:46.200]  David, are you there?
[02:46.900 --> 02:47.660]  Hey, I'm here.
[02:48.500 --> 02:52.080]  So what gave you the idea for doing something like this?
[02:52.200 --> 02:53.340]  Abandoned missile silos.
[02:53.440 --> 02:55.960]  I don't think that's an idea worthy of the Europeans.
[02:57.620 --> 03:03.700]  Yeah, well, we're looking around for a good spot for the first ever Hacker Conference in the U.S.
[03:03.800 --> 03:07.480]  And we started looking around at all the possible sites in Washington.
[03:07.740 --> 03:14.980]  And originally we were planning on having it at a half-built nuclear power plant, but they didn't want us to camp there.
[03:15.140 --> 03:18.380]  And so we went with the second option, which was this whole silo.
[03:19.380 --> 03:19.740]  Wow.
[03:20.860 --> 03:22.180]  It's really incredible.
[03:22.340 --> 03:24.340]  Now, what are you guys involved in doing right now?
[03:24.440 --> 03:25.860]  You took me downstairs a little while ago.
[03:25.940 --> 03:27.580]  I've got to tell you, folks, it was scary.
[03:27.580 --> 03:28.900]  We just kept going downstairs.
[03:28.900 --> 03:33.700]  And if you looked over the railing, there's this gaping hole that just seemed to go down forever.
[03:34.200 --> 03:38.580]  And that is where we're moving all these chairs and where the talks will be taking place tomorrow.
[03:39.840 --> 03:42.480]  I mean, what challenges have you faced?
[03:42.620 --> 03:45.800]  I mean, we've put together conferences before, but never had abandoned missile silos.
[03:45.960 --> 03:48.020]  There must be some unique challenges that you have to go through.
[03:49.400 --> 03:50.160]  Yeah, definitely.
[03:50.880 --> 03:53.520]  I mean, it's mostly just building all the infrastructure out here.
[03:53.780 --> 03:58.940]  In the area that we're at, in the property, we don't have any power or water or toilets or anything like that.
[03:58.960 --> 04:00.020]  So we had to bring all of that in.
[04:01.180 --> 04:03.080]  We also need to provide shade for everybody.
[04:03.460 --> 04:07.580]  So we actually came out here earlier and built geodesic domes from scratch.
[04:08.500 --> 04:13.200]  We've built, I guess, about five now so far that are about 32 feet wide.
[04:13.580 --> 04:18.540]  And just putting up infrastructure all over the place, getting things ready for the camp.
[04:18.840 --> 04:20.640]  It's definitely been an adventure.
[04:20.760 --> 04:22.620]  We've been out here since Friday, just working nonstop.
[04:24.020 --> 04:26.660]  I just got here a couple hours ago, and I just missed the fun.
[04:26.760 --> 04:28.280]  You guys had a dust devil come through?
[04:29.400 --> 04:31.960]  Yeah, one of our domes we forgot to secure down.
[04:32.480 --> 04:40.280]  And this dust devil, which is really more like a mini tornado, swept through the camp and picked it up into the air probably at least 20 or 30 feet and flipped it over.
[04:40.860 --> 04:42.460]  So we're in the middle of rebuilding that right now.
[04:42.720 --> 04:47.540]  I was driving, and I saw what looked like, I guess, smoke from a fire.
[04:47.700 --> 04:53.220]  I figured, okay, you know, you don't have tornadoes in crystal clear weather, so it couldn't be a tornado.
[04:53.380 --> 04:53.920]  It must be a fire.
[04:54.060 --> 04:56.000]  But in fact, that must have been the dust devil that I saw.
[04:57.040 --> 04:58.940]  Yeah, they're all over the place here.
[04:59.040 --> 05:04.360]  Most of them are pretty tiny, but the big ones get pretty gnarly.
[05:05.760 --> 05:11.360]  Well, I hope to meet one, actually, because I've never seen a tornado, and this seems like a good beginner's guide to that kind of thing.
[05:11.440 --> 05:12.540]  A safe alternative, maybe.
[05:12.940 --> 05:13.860]  Yeah, maybe.
[05:14.920 --> 05:23.120]  So you guys back in New York who aren't here, much to my chagrin, what kind of questions do you have for this kind of an event?
[05:23.960 --> 05:26.060]  How many people do you expect there?
[05:26.840 --> 05:33.560]  Well, so far, between everybody that's registered and volunteers and speakers, we're looking at about 350 at the moment.
[05:33.800 --> 05:36.920]  And we're also expecting a lot of people to just show up.
[05:37.040 --> 05:39.280]  And so we're looking at maybe around 400 people.
[05:40.180 --> 05:48.920]  One of the people that we're actually running the silo from are throwing a little party Friday, and they're bringing in a lot more people just for Friday to join in on the party.
[05:49.140 --> 05:53.720]  So we'll probably peek out at maybe closer to 1,000 people on Friday.
[05:54.740 --> 05:57.020]  And about how many speakers do you have lined up?
[05:58.260 --> 06:09.360]  I think our last count was close to 60 total, because we have 20-minute talks going on tomorrow, and then we have hour-long talks and two tracks going on on Friday.
[06:09.640 --> 06:13.340]  And then we also have some lightning talks and workshops across the weekend.
[06:13.900 --> 06:16.080]  You have an interesting keynote speaker, too, from what I hear.
[06:16.660 --> 06:17.240]  What's that?
[06:17.420 --> 06:19.360]  You have an interesting keynote speaker, too, from what I hear.
[06:20.080 --> 06:20.820]  Yeah, yeah.
[06:21.360 --> 06:22.360]  Yeah, quite interesting.
[06:23.180 --> 06:23.500]  Yeah.
[06:24.420 --> 06:25.960]  Now, tell us about the location.
[06:26.160 --> 06:29.080]  How did you come into possession of a missile silo?
[06:30.080 --> 06:37.560]  Well, this missile silo was actually on eBay for a while, and it had a price for $1.5 million.
[06:38.440 --> 06:40.440]  The missile silo was on eBay.
[06:40.840 --> 06:44.700]  Wait, so you're saying for the price of a New York apartment, I could have a missile silo?
[06:44.840 --> 06:45.600]  Seems like a deal.
[06:46.160 --> 06:46.800]  Yeah, yeah.
[06:46.900 --> 06:51.540]  I mean, it's definitely a very remote location, but it's got lots of storage space.
[06:51.780 --> 06:55.020]  And, you know, enough to store a few missiles, at least.
[06:55.320 --> 06:58.640]  Did you get the missile silo first and then decided, hey, let's have a con here?
[07:00.880 --> 07:09.440]  Well, we've been trying to throw a camp for the longest time, and so when we saw this go on eBay, we were like, hey, maybe we should, you know, get together some friends and try and buy it.
[07:09.440 --> 07:15.220]  But luckily, one of my friends happened to know the guy that was renting it.
[07:17.060 --> 07:22.680]  So we ended up working out a deal with him, and yeah, basically managed to borrow it for the weekend.
[07:25.140 --> 07:25.460]  Amazing.
[07:25.460 --> 07:28.620]  You know, we have an abandoned nuclear power plant on Long Island.
[07:28.740 --> 07:30.300]  I'm wondering if maybe we could hold a con there.
[07:31.440 --> 07:32.240]  Oh, that'd be great.
[07:33.160 --> 07:38.580]  It just goes to show, if you just use your imagination, you can come to some pretty impressive places and tell the vents in.
[07:40.220 --> 07:44.260]  So I'm sort of wondering, I'm wondering about the, about how this facility is hooked up.
[07:44.360 --> 07:44.900]  I mean, it's underground.
[07:45.520 --> 07:50.840]  Does it still have, like, all of the, say, requisite, like, ventilation and stuff that it was supposed to have?
[07:50.840 --> 07:51.580]  Is that still working?
[07:51.740 --> 07:52.160]  How do you know?
[07:52.260 --> 07:56.320]  Are there any sort of special provisions for, like, functioning underground that it has?
[07:58.580 --> 08:02.480]  Well, right after the government stopped using it, they basically gutted everything out of it.
[08:02.760 --> 08:10.000]  And in the process, they actually cut the roof off of one of the domes here so they could get out all the equipment.
[08:10.360 --> 08:14.880]  And so all of the underground is kind of open to the outside world through that.
[08:15.340 --> 08:17.400]  And so it doesn't really get too musty down there.
[08:17.400 --> 08:21.300]  And the nice thing is that it stays about 55, 60 degrees all the time.
[08:22.420 --> 08:23.620]  Yeah, I was just down there.
[08:24.120 --> 08:24.480]  Yeah.
[08:24.720 --> 08:26.480]  I was just down there, and it was extremely cool.
[08:26.540 --> 08:27.700]  And you're saying that's all natural?
[08:28.400 --> 08:29.120]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[08:29.320 --> 08:33.300]  It's the ground temperature because we're about 60 to 80 feet below the Earth's surface.
[08:33.600 --> 08:35.700]  So everything's nice and cool down there.
[08:36.380 --> 08:38.980]  Now, have you been to any of the European conferences?
[08:39.080 --> 08:42.360]  How did you get the idea or the drive to want to do this?
[08:42.480 --> 08:43.740]  And you said you've been trying to do it for a while.
[08:44.660 --> 08:48.560]  Yeah, well, I went to the CCC camp, I guess it was two years ago.
[08:49.320 --> 08:57.140]  And I guess that kind of really gave me the motivation to try and push this through because we've been talking about it for the past, like, five years now.
[08:57.140 --> 08:59.720]  I'm sure lots of conference organizers have been thinking about it.
[09:00.460 --> 09:03.320]  But after I went there, it was like, man, we definitely have to do this.
[09:05.580 --> 09:12.240]  And as I mentioned before, this is the first time ever that there's been an outdoor hacker camp in this country.
[09:12.440 --> 09:15.720]  We've talked over the years about the ones in Holland and the ones in Germany.
[09:15.900 --> 09:18.840]  In fact, there's one in Holland coming up later this year and next month.
[09:19.160 --> 09:21.140]  And we'll be talking about that later on in the show as well.
[09:21.700 --> 09:23.760]  But I think it's a good tradition to start.
[09:23.760 --> 09:33.740]  And whether it's in a missile silo or a nuclear power plant or in the middle of the forest someplace, I think there's really no limit to where we can gather and have talks and adventures and things like that.
[09:34.020 --> 09:36.140]  So are people actually staying underground, too?
[09:36.220 --> 09:38.620]  Or is it just that the sort of the talks and the activities are going on underground?
[09:39.760 --> 09:43.760]  Yeah, nobody's staying underground because there's some pretty scary areas.
[09:44.600 --> 09:49.240]  Just walking down the 60 feet to get down, it seemed like it was, you know, going on forever.
[09:49.240 --> 09:52.760]  But the actual missile silos drop another 100 feet below that.
[09:53.100 --> 09:57.400]  And so there's lots of areas where people could possibly fall in and get injured.
[09:57.620 --> 10:00.420]  So we're having our talks and events down there tomorrow.
[10:00.420 --> 10:06.760]  And then we can't really fit enough people in any, like, real space down there for Friday and the weekend.
[10:06.840 --> 10:09.740]  So we're going to be giving tours over the weekend of the whole facility.
[10:10.220 --> 10:12.740]  People can actually, like, go in and, you know, see all the silos.
[10:13.460 --> 10:15.740]  And it's just a really massive complex.
[10:16.820 --> 10:21.980]  David, have you been able to find out any information about the previous use of this missile silo?
[10:22.140 --> 10:24.580]  For instance, who were the missiles aimed at?
[10:26.280 --> 10:29.960]  As far as I know, it was part of the Cold War thing, aiming towards Russia.
[10:31.420 --> 10:35.540]  It would be nice if we knew what particular city they were seeking to write out.
[10:36.320 --> 10:38.380]  Maybe we can have a conference with them.
[10:38.880 --> 10:40.100]  Do we know what kind of...
[10:40.100 --> 10:43.400]  Do we know which type of missile system was it?
[10:43.500 --> 10:47.960]  Was it a Minuteman or Nike-type missile silo, tight missile facility?
[10:48.260 --> 10:51.020]  And when was it decommissioned?
[10:51.200 --> 10:53.560]  And have you found the control room yet?
[10:54.420 --> 10:55.060]  Yeah, yeah.
[10:55.120 --> 10:58.380]  We actually were just carting all the chairs down into the control room.
[10:58.500 --> 10:59.660]  That's where we're having the talks tomorrow.
[11:01.160 --> 11:13.880]  I believe that it was built at around 1960, and it was decommissioned after only operating for about two years, because right after they built this one, they immediately started building the Titan II and working on the Titan III.
[11:14.000 --> 11:16.720]  And so it was really kind of a beta missile site.
[11:16.880 --> 11:18.740]  So this was a great use of taxpayer money then?
[11:19.180 --> 11:20.200]  Oh, definitely, yeah.
[11:21.080 --> 11:24.540]  So this place hasn't been in use since 1962, you told us?
[11:25.100 --> 11:25.720]  Yeah, yeah.
[11:26.280 --> 11:37.080]  I think it sat around for a while, and then it went out for government auction, and then I guess the owner just kind of left it unlocked, and tons of kids went down there and had parties and spray-painted everything.
[11:37.860 --> 11:41.900]  And then the new owner has locked it up and has a security guard here and stuff.
[11:42.380 --> 11:46.120]  I saw the spray-painted for ACDC.
[11:46.240 --> 11:48.680]  I just assumed those were the guys in the military that were stationed here.
[11:48.680 --> 11:52.180]  I guess in 1960, I don't really think that through, I guess.
[11:54.740 --> 12:09.240]  Yeah, talking to the locals here, a lot of the locals that we're getting involved in with catering the whole thing and helping us out, they've come here and they've been like, hey, that's my initials over there.
[12:09.360 --> 12:11.140]  Hey, I remember when I spray-painted that.
[12:11.560 --> 12:16.640]  And so it seems like most of the people in the area, you know, when they were younger, went down there and had all sorts of fun.
[12:17.200 --> 12:18.460]  Well, you mentioned locals.
[12:18.640 --> 12:19.800]  Where exactly are these locals?
[12:19.900 --> 12:23.020]  Because I look around and see absolutely nothing all the way into the distance.
[12:24.080 --> 12:28.740]  Well, the closest town is about 20 miles away, called Odessa, Washington.
[12:29.620 --> 12:33.300]  They have, I think, two restaurants, one supermarket, one gas station.
[12:34.000 --> 12:36.780]  I think the mayor is also the fire chief and all that sort of stuff.
[12:37.020 --> 12:39.000]  So it's a pretty small town.
[12:39.000 --> 12:41.380]  And I'm looking forward to seeing the stars, actually.
[12:41.540 --> 12:42.380]  I think that'll be pretty good.
[12:42.380 --> 12:42.800]  Oh, yeah.
[12:42.900 --> 12:46.100]  You can easily see the Milky Way and all the stars.
[12:46.100 --> 12:46.680]  It's amazing.
[12:48.040 --> 12:51.240]  Now, I'm assuming that the military tried to keep the space out of plain view.
[12:51.360 --> 12:52.600]  So what's it like to show up?
[12:52.660 --> 12:55.800]  Is it just a big grassy field with like a trap door to get down?
[12:57.840 --> 13:03.640]  Well, all the ground over here is covered with lots of, like, sage and small shrubs.
[13:04.120 --> 13:16.440]  And the terrain is actually pretty bumpy because to build it, they laid down a bunch of dynamite and blew up the bedrock down, you know, about 100, 200 feet below the surface.
[13:16.520 --> 13:19.860]  And then built the whole facility and then covered it in.
[13:19.960 --> 13:22.020]  And they weren't exactly precise with covering it in.
[13:22.020 --> 13:25.740]  And then also, when they left the place, they had to dig up all sorts of things.
[13:25.860 --> 13:26.300]  So there's...
[13:26.840 --> 13:33.400]  I'm standing in front of a huge canyon that used to be where the diesel tank was that they had to excavate and take out of here.
[13:33.420 --> 13:39.380]  And it's probably about maybe 100 feet wide by 500 feet and probably maybe 100 feet deep.
[13:39.960 --> 13:44.480]  So there's just huge canyons like that where they had to remove things.
[13:44.880 --> 13:51.260]  Now, David, are you concerned what will happen if word gets out into the media that hackers have taken control of a missile silo?
[13:54.900 --> 13:55.480]  I don't know.
[13:55.720 --> 13:56.420]  We'll see what happens.
[13:57.780 --> 13:59.880]  I got to say, though, what's that?
[14:00.100 --> 14:01.000]  David, look up in the sky.
[14:01.100 --> 14:01.780]  Do you see that approaching us?
[14:01.820 --> 14:02.180]  What is that?
[14:03.880 --> 14:05.080]  Oh, looks like an airplane.
[14:05.380 --> 14:07.180]  It looks like an airplane, yeah, but it's not moving.
[14:07.440 --> 14:09.540]  It's got this weird, ominous look to it.
[14:09.560 --> 14:11.680]  And it's going very slowly, but it's very, very big.
[14:12.860 --> 14:13.500]  Hang on, guys.
[14:13.660 --> 14:16.140]  This might be very important as evidence someday.
[14:17.240 --> 14:20.580]  Now, I wish I could identify these things, but I've never seen a plane that looks like that before.
[14:21.620 --> 14:23.980]  And it's making an ominous noise as it approaches us.
[14:25.420 --> 14:28.600]  That's like an FQ-52B or something, isn't it?
[14:30.220 --> 14:31.440]  It looks very military.
[14:31.440 --> 14:34.260]  It's passing directly over my head, too, which kind of concerns me.
[14:34.340 --> 14:36.260]  It looks like it has a rocket in the front.
[14:38.760 --> 14:41.940]  Is there still an active military installation somewhere in the vicinity, then?
[14:43.280 --> 14:48.300]  Yeah, I think that Lowry Air Force Base, or I think there's at least one or two Air Force bases here.
[14:49.260 --> 14:52.820]  There's also just a mass airport at Moses Lake.
[14:53.660 --> 14:55.580]  I think it's one of the largest airports in the U.S.
[14:56.220 --> 14:58.260]  It's an alternate landing site for the space shuttle.
[14:59.560 --> 15:03.660]  And so I know that they do lots of airline flight training and stuff like that there.
[15:04.420 --> 15:05.720]  The space shuttle can land near here?
[15:05.860 --> 15:06.040]  Really?
[15:06.820 --> 15:07.400]  Yeah, yeah.
[15:07.840 --> 15:10.260]  You should look at the airport on Google Maps.
[15:10.260 --> 15:13.280]  It's almost as big as Moses Lake, which isn't saying that much.
[15:14.740 --> 15:17.920]  So now tell us about some of the events you have going on in this missile silo of yours.
[15:18.500 --> 15:20.800]  What are some of the things that are going to be happening at this camp?
[15:22.560 --> 15:23.360]  Well, let's see.
[15:23.900 --> 15:25.300]  We've got all the talks, obviously.
[15:25.640 --> 15:36.860]  We've also got tons of workshops going over the weekend, like teaching people how to do blacksmithing and how to etch their own PCBs.
[15:36.980 --> 15:42.420]  And we have different workshops, like teaching computers and all the usual stuff.
[15:43.780 --> 15:49.640]  And then we also have some crazy parties going on on Friday night and Saturday night that T-Profit is actually running.
[15:50.980 --> 15:51.340]  Blacksmithing.
[15:51.440 --> 15:51.640]  Wow.
[15:52.440 --> 15:53.520]  Yeah, it should be a lot of fun.
[15:54.060 --> 15:55.400]  Emmanuel, can we get that at the next Hope?
[15:56.160 --> 15:56.920]  We're going to try.
[15:57.580 --> 16:00.320]  I don't know if we can get a missile silo, but we're going to try and get all that other stuff.
[16:01.020 --> 16:01.640]  Hey, David.
[16:01.900 --> 16:02.740]  Maybe we can get a missile.
[16:02.940 --> 16:05.460]  You know, just haul in a big missile that's not being used.
[16:06.140 --> 16:08.480]  Hey, David, I have a question about the infrastructure there.
[16:09.260 --> 16:11.000]  What's the power infrastructure?
[16:11.000 --> 16:15.780]  What's the power infrastructure, water infrastructure, and connectivity infrastructure like?
[16:17.320 --> 16:22.900]  Well, as far as power, we're just running everything in our area off of generators at this point.
[16:23.640 --> 16:27.860]  We brought in a water truck to provide water for everybody, and we're doing refills daily.
[16:29.300 --> 16:39.840]  And as far as Internet, we found a local wireless ISP, and they're beaming up Internet from about 50 miles away, I think, through a bunch of towers and stuff.
[16:40.340 --> 16:41.760]  And it's actually not that bad.
[16:41.980 --> 16:45.560]  You see, here in New York, 50 miles away does not count as local.
[16:47.940 --> 16:51.520]  You're saying the Wi-Fi that we're getting now is coming from 50 miles away?
[16:51.940 --> 16:52.780]  Yeah, around there.
[16:55.040 --> 16:58.180]  I wish the cell phones first was that good, because mine keeps dropping in and out.
[17:02.320 --> 17:05.680]  So you mentioned a keynote, and then you kind of left evilly.
[17:05.700 --> 17:06.520]  So what was that all about?
[17:07.660 --> 17:13.020]  Oh, well, Emmanuel is our keynote speaker, so it's very convenient to make it.
[17:14.100 --> 17:16.560]  I've got a very angry insect buzzing around my head.
[17:16.560 --> 17:17.540]  I don't know what that's all about.
[17:17.680 --> 17:21.100]  But are there bits of wildlife we have to worry about out here?
[17:22.680 --> 17:23.740]  I don't think so.
[17:24.160 --> 17:25.860]  We haven't seen anything dangerous yet.
[17:26.080 --> 17:26.660]  Drop bears.
[17:27.380 --> 17:28.160]  Yeah, what about wolves?
[17:29.260 --> 17:31.040]  Anything left out of it from the prehistoric era?
[17:32.840 --> 17:33.660]  Soviets, perhaps.
[17:34.420 --> 17:38.520]  I think we've seen some fox and mice, and there's a raven's nest in the barn.
[17:38.680 --> 17:40.400]  There's a couple of baby ravens over there.
[17:40.700 --> 17:41.060]  Furries.
[17:41.140 --> 17:42.160]  That's the last thing we need.
[17:44.480 --> 17:46.060]  Aside from that, we haven't seen anything.
[17:46.060 --> 17:49.920]  I mean, it's almost like it's desert out here, so...
[17:49.920 --> 17:51.780]  Yeah, we're in the middle of Washington State.
[17:52.040 --> 17:52.740]  We have snakes and coyotes.
[17:54.000 --> 17:54.740]  That'd be cool.
[17:55.640 --> 18:04.200]  David, I want to thank you so much not only for being with us tonight, but just for organizing this and for writing a new chapter in hacker history, because that's definitely what this will go down at.
[18:04.240 --> 18:11.180]  It's the first ever hacker camp that takes place in the United States and in an abandoned missile silo on top of that.
[18:11.180 --> 18:12.620]  It's going to be a ton of fun.
[18:12.820 --> 18:13.040]  Tour camp.
[18:14.280 --> 18:15.440]  Yeah, thanks a lot for having me.
[18:16.060 --> 18:16.560]  All right.
[18:16.760 --> 18:19.740]  And we'll report back next week, let people know how things went.
[18:21.120 --> 18:23.180]  And, yeah, guys, it's incredible.
[18:23.320 --> 18:25.920]  I wish you all were out here, but then I guess nobody would be in the studio if you were.
[18:26.180 --> 18:28.480]  But it's going to be a historic event.
[18:31.200 --> 18:31.600]  Jealous.
[18:32.540 --> 18:32.820]  Yeah.
[18:33.780 --> 18:38.960]  So, yeah, while we get our next guest on the phone, anything going on back there in New York?
[18:39.060 --> 18:40.040]  Any stories you guys want to talk about?
[18:41.580 --> 18:43.180]  A couple of interesting things going on.
[18:43.640 --> 18:45.440]  One involves our old friend Adam Savage.
[18:46.060 --> 18:47.140]  Who spoke at The Last Hope.
[18:47.960 --> 18:52.300]  He used his Twitter page to fight an $11,000 phone bill.
[18:54.300 --> 18:56.460]  Apparently, he was in Canada.
[18:56.900 --> 18:58.480]  And using his...
[18:58.480 --> 18:59.940]  Was it a modem?
[19:00.420 --> 19:03.180]  He was using a modem that connected to a cell account.
[19:03.340 --> 19:07.760]  And when he got home, he found out that they had charged him $11,000 for the privilege.
[19:09.100 --> 19:09.900]  Claiming that...
[19:09.900 --> 19:10.140]  Hello?
[19:11.340 --> 19:11.880]  I'm sorry.
[19:13.720 --> 19:17.780]  Claiming that he used enough data to rack up that charge.
[19:17.920 --> 19:21.140]  So, he complained to it to the internet and his legions of followers on Twitter.
[19:21.920 --> 19:24.800]  And the story pretty much took off from there like wildfire.
[19:25.020 --> 19:28.980]  You know, what I think is interesting about this is I've heard this before, this story before.
[19:29.320 --> 19:36.020]  I remember, I don't know if it was a couple months or a year ago, seeing someone writing about their experience with AT&T having roaming rates.
[19:36.080 --> 19:50.800]  And what's really interesting and was also mirrored between the two accounts was that AT&T insists upon saying it's 0.015 cents per kilobyte, which is one and a half cents, which is one and a half pennies or something, which is absolutely absurd.
[19:51.280 --> 19:52.080]  And so...
[19:53.260 --> 19:58.800]  But now I'm wondering, in his case, because he was using a modem, was there no indication that there would be a higher charge?
[19:58.880 --> 20:05.840]  Because I know that when I was in Canada, I got a text message saying, just so you know, this is how much it's going to cost if you use the internet here.
[20:06.500 --> 20:09.280]  He was using one of these wireless connection cards.
[20:09.940 --> 20:11.220]  He was using AT&T.
[20:11.400 --> 20:19.340]  It was one of these HDSPA type, like 3G data cards over AT&T's GSM network.
[20:19.500 --> 20:25.180]  And it's just like a PCM-CIA card that slides into the side of your laptop or whatever.
[20:25.320 --> 20:31.120]  So there's no way to receive a text message like you would on a smartphone or any kind of a phone.
[20:31.220 --> 20:45.240]  So like this guy that got nailed on a cruise ship a few months ago with a multi-thousand dollar bill for watching a football game through his slingbox set up over AT&T's network.
[20:45.240 --> 20:47.640]  While he was docked at a U.S.
[20:48.280 --> 20:50.280]  on a cruise ship at a U.S.
[20:50.400 --> 20:54.680]  port, AT&T mistakenly thought he was an international subscriber.
[20:54.880 --> 20:57.440]  And he didn't receive an SMS message either.
[20:57.440 --> 21:03.760]  The AT&T claims they send out an SMS message whenever they see tons of expensive activity happening.
[21:03.980 --> 21:07.020]  But customers like that aren't able to see the messages.
[21:07.020 --> 21:08.280]  So it's a bad system.
[21:08.860 --> 21:09.060]  Right.
[21:09.200 --> 21:15.240]  I mean, because I know I got a message that said the international rate is $15.36 per megabyte, which is pretty clear.
[21:15.440 --> 21:20.920]  I agree that when you call them on the phone and they throw these numbers at you that don't make any sense, that's one thing.
[21:21.000 --> 21:23.760]  But they were very clear, at least in their text message that I received.
[21:23.760 --> 21:26.340]  And $15 a megabyte, that can add up pretty quickly.
[21:26.480 --> 21:27.580]  But that's if you get a text message.
[21:27.700 --> 21:27.760]  Right.
[21:27.760 --> 21:33.400]  Because if you can't get the text message, then I think Bernie's point that that's not really available to customers who are out on the fringes of things anyway.
[21:33.700 --> 21:33.840]  Right.
[21:34.260 --> 21:37.380]  Well, the good news is that he got the bill reversed and everybody's happy now, right?
[21:37.660 --> 21:38.820]  He did get it reversed.
[21:38.840 --> 21:49.420]  But he agrees with what a lot of people on Twitter were saying in response to this, that it's great that it worked for him because he's a big famous guy with his own television show and 50,000 followers.
[21:50.060 --> 21:51.060]  But what about the rest of us?
[21:51.060 --> 21:57.580]  Yeah, that's what I was thinking is I thought the salient part of this story was that my understanding was that the internet was not your own personal army.
[21:57.700 --> 21:59.060]  But in this case, it appears that it was.
[22:01.060 --> 22:02.240]  Where's the rulebook on that?
[22:02.480 --> 22:04.020]  I thought you wrote the rulebook on that.
[22:04.160 --> 22:05.040]  I don't think I did.
[22:05.680 --> 22:05.900]  Well, no.
[22:06.000 --> 22:14.600]  Seriously, though, the other thing that I think is sort of interesting about this is because of all this sort of tweeting about it, AT&T went up in the trending topics on Twitter.
[22:14.600 --> 22:21.340]  And as a result, spammers were able to use the AT&T tag to sell AT&T phones to people.
[22:21.520 --> 22:26.180]  So it's sort of as counterproductive in that way because it didn't just hurt AT&T this way.
[22:26.840 --> 22:27.480]  Wow, amazing.
[22:28.060 --> 22:35.100]  Okay, I'm speaking here from a banded missile silo over in Washington State.
[22:35.380 --> 22:40.260]  And on his way, as fast as he possibly can is our good friend, Nick Farr.
[22:42.080 --> 22:43.040]  Nick, are you there?
[22:43.040 --> 22:44.740]  Our manual seems to be fading in and out.
[22:44.840 --> 22:45.880]  But are you there, Nick?
[22:46.880 --> 22:48.120]  Hey, how are you guys doing?
[22:48.640 --> 22:49.600]  Okay, where are you at?
[22:49.600 --> 22:49.840]  Hey, Nick?
[22:51.400 --> 22:53.720]  I am somewhere in rural Washington.
[22:54.440 --> 22:56.580]  Well, that covers a pretty big expanse.
[22:57.640 --> 22:58.040]  Huh?
[22:58.440 --> 23:00.040]  That covers a pretty big expanse.
[23:00.200 --> 23:00.900]  It could be anywhere.
[23:02.040 --> 23:02.320]  Yeah.
[23:03.160 --> 23:12.440]  The funny thing is there's a little crisis at the camp right now having lost the mate and their coffee maker, the coffee vendor, rather, on-site decided to bail.
[23:12.440 --> 23:15.480]  So that is the problem I am currently solving.
[23:16.520 --> 23:17.200]  Oh, no.
[23:17.740 --> 23:21.600]  You're solving the problem, talking to us, and driving there.
[23:21.740 --> 23:24.000]  This seems likely to cause a car accident.
[23:25.280 --> 23:26.680]  Don't be a killjoy, Mike.
[23:27.840 --> 23:30.600]  I did pull over to the side of the road to talk to you guys.
[23:30.960 --> 23:31.260]  All right.
[23:31.360 --> 23:32.080]  Okay, that's good.
[23:32.520 --> 23:35.220]  Well, Nick, you've got an amazing thing going on yourself.
[23:35.220 --> 23:39.620]  I know you're going to be at Hacking at Random Time in Holland taking place next month.
[23:40.020 --> 23:51.880]  And you're organizing, again, the Hackers on a Plane expedition, which was greatly successful a couple of years ago when people went to the chaos camp.
[23:52.060 --> 23:55.460]  Do you want to tell us something about the idea behind Hackers on a Plane?
[23:56.300 --> 24:10.860]  The idea behind Hackers on a Plane is to try to get people who wouldn't be able to go, people who might not be able to afford the full fare, or especially since it's taking place at an actual camp, people coming from overseas might not want to bring or look all of their equipment over there.
[24:11.020 --> 24:21.980]  The whole idea behind the Hackers on a Plane concept is to get more people involved in the scene, to try to broaden our horizons a little bit, and to build those international connections between hackers in the U.S.
[24:21.980 --> 24:25.840]  and hackers overseas, which is exactly what the first Hackers on a Plane did.
[24:25.840 --> 24:35.120]  The first Hackers on a Plane brought together the people who, you know, right after that trip started NYC Resisters, New York and Noisebridge in San Francisco and Hack D.C.
[24:35.200 --> 24:36.080]  and Washington, D.C.
[24:36.620 --> 24:44.420]  The idea behind that trip was to get everybody, was to get Americans overseas to see how they do hackerspaces in Germany and to bring them back over.
[24:45.300 --> 24:46.240]  They loved it.
[24:46.400 --> 24:47.840]  It was a huge success for them.
[24:48.320 --> 24:54.780]  You know, it was a big time effort for me and a little bit of financial resource strain.
[24:55.360 --> 25:06.680]  But, you know, the people from HAAR said, hey, look, this is a really great reason why the camp was so awesome two years ago and we want to make sure that we get, you know, another good crop of Americans involved in the scene this year.
[25:07.100 --> 25:08.900]  So they asked me to do Hackers on a Plane again.
[25:09.020 --> 25:16.140]  They arranged for the lodge on the campsite to be just for us, just for people on Hackers on a Plane.
[25:16.360 --> 25:21.460]  I should also mention the website for Hackers on a Plane is Hackers on a Plane one word .info.
[25:21.920 --> 25:25.960]  And you can check out more information about all of this there and the history of it and that sort of thing.
[25:27.940 --> 25:28.880]  So, go ahead.
[25:29.380 --> 25:41.860]  Well, I just wanted to also point out that one of the reasons we have you on tonight is because we have a bit of a slight crisis involving Hackers on a Plane, meaning that we still have a few tickets left on it.
[25:42.000 --> 25:52.820]  And if you guys don't get rid of all those tickets you kind of are at a big disadvantage because you lose the well, you have the low fare but you have to cover all those tickets that haven't been sold.
[25:53.480 --> 25:57.420]  And that would be a real shame because that would almost certainly make it impossible to do this again.
[25:57.800 --> 26:19.600]  And since it was so successful the first time and since we know it's a good deal and we know it's a ton of fun for anybody involved we just want to make sure people who are remotely considering going to either Hackers hacking at random or to the extended trip that involves going into Austria as well and seeing some hackerspaces we want to make sure that they have every opportunity to take
[26:19.600 --> 26:22.320]  advantage of this and help make the whole program a success.
[26:22.660 --> 26:25.120]  Can you explain exactly what hacking at random is?
[26:27.200 --> 26:28.120]  I'm sorry, go ahead.
[26:28.260 --> 26:30.680]  Can you explain exactly what HAR is?
[26:31.240 --> 26:32.380]  What HAR is?
[26:32.480 --> 26:55.540]  Well, Mike why don't you take that one since you have a better sound I don't know about that but HAR is the installment of a series of hacker camps that have been going on in Holland interspersed with some in Germany so this year it's in Vierhouten in the Netherlands and there will be I guess thousands at least 1,000
[26:55.540 --> 27:22.180]  hackers camping out in this beautiful campground I've seen pictures in the Netherlands and seeing talks hanging out drinking Clube Mata all kinds of interesting stuff I think a lot of us will be there too I'll be there I'll be there I bought a tent I'll be there This one we're all going to be at so it would be incumbent on anyone in the area I'm going to explain exactly how it can work too anyone
[27:22.180 --> 27:35.820]  can take advantage of this special flight that will be filled with people from the hacking community and basically Nick tell us when people get on that plane Everything pretty much is covered from that point on?
[27:36.520 --> 27:39.500]  Yeah, basically what happens is you get on a plane in New York.
[27:40.100 --> 27:41.180]  You fly over there.
[27:41.180 --> 27:45.560]  We arrange transportation from the airport to the campsite, which is about an hour away.
[27:45.640 --> 27:53.540]  And of course, once you get to the campsite, you'll have a lodge all to yourself with 32 other hackers, some of whom will be coming from Vienna.
[27:54.100 --> 28:01.320]  If you want to go to the first plumber con, that's also an option that we arrange to try to bolster the scene, going out at the metal lab.
[28:01.580 --> 28:04.360]  You know, we're great friends with the people over there, and they've been really supportive.
[28:04.980 --> 28:09.340]  And if you want to go on a trip to Vienna before HART, if you have the time off to do that, I strongly recommend that option.
[28:09.440 --> 28:17.920]  But if you've been on the fence as to whether or not to go to HART, this is the most comfortable, least expensive way to go about it.
[28:18.940 --> 28:19.880]  What's a plumber con?
[28:20.460 --> 28:21.240]  I'm sorry, go ahead.
[28:21.640 --> 28:23.200]  I was just going to ask, what's a plumber con?
[28:23.260 --> 28:26.420]  Maybe that's a stupid question, but I mean, are we going to meet Mario and Luigi?
[28:29.660 --> 28:33.460]  They are scheduled to make an appearance, and that is all I can say about that.
[28:33.460 --> 28:35.480]  You'll have to go out to Vienna to see for yourself.
[28:36.220 --> 28:39.860]  So this is an Austrian Mario and Luigi as opposed to an Italian Mario and Luigi?
[28:40.880 --> 28:41.720]  Oh, say that again?
[28:42.180 --> 28:43.360]  Never mind, it's a bad joke.
[28:44.520 --> 28:51.500]  But I mean, seriously though, is this about like, you know, T-joints and stoppers and gaskets and things?
[28:51.580 --> 28:53.280]  I mean, what kind of plumbing are we talking about here?
[28:53.580 --> 28:54.120]  My plumbing?
[28:54.340 --> 28:54.540]  I mean...
[28:55.560 --> 28:56.920]  Plumber con is just the name.
[28:57.340 --> 28:58.380]  It's sort of a...
[28:58.960 --> 29:02.580]  It's sort of a little bit of an inside joke, at least the name of it anyway.
[29:02.700 --> 29:07.580]  It's just a regular technology conference in the European spirit of hacker conferences.
[29:07.580 --> 29:10.300]  It's the first one being held in Vienna.
[29:11.460 --> 29:22.080]  It's sort of, you know, a day-long conference, like we've seen a lot of these one-day security, hacker technology, culture, art conferences, you know, appearing in Canada and Brazil.
[29:22.920 --> 29:32.980]  To a lesser extent, you might even say the bar camps are like that, but it's a similar one-day conference where a lot of different ideas on art and culture and technology will be presented in a smaller atmosphere.
[29:32.980 --> 29:36.440]  There are only going to be about 75 different hackers there.
[29:36.440 --> 29:45.340]  So the opportunities for one-on-one interaction, an opportunity just to meet up with people overseas in Europe or working on the same kinds of projects that you might be working on here in the U.S.
[29:45.340 --> 29:52.240]  and building those personal connections that really get things like the global hackerspaces community going is what's going to be happening there.
[29:52.340 --> 29:58.020]  The PlumberCon reference is actually just a reference to a dozen hackers ended up staying with me in Washington, D.C.
[29:58.100 --> 29:58.900]  for ShmooCon.
[30:00.120 --> 30:12.100]  You know, and you get a dozen hackers in a room who are trying to cook and do all sorts of other things, and, well, they kind of shot the plumbing in my apartment, and they figured, okay, well, Nick, we're really sorry about this, but to make it up to you,
[30:12.240 --> 30:14.880]  we'll throw you this con in Vienna.
[30:15.080 --> 30:17.140]  And they've got a great bunch of speakers lined up.
[30:17.140 --> 30:19.400]  Their website's plumbercon.org.
[30:20.780 --> 30:22.320]  And it's just another opportunity.
[30:22.820 --> 30:22.860]  Nick?
[30:23.400 --> 30:30.400]  Nick, I understand there's two different hackers on a plane flights heading out to Europe.
[30:30.540 --> 30:36.200]  One flight leaves when August 4th, is that right, for Vienna?
[30:36.200 --> 30:36.780]  Yeah, that's correct.
[30:37.260 --> 30:37.800]  For Vienna.
[30:38.440 --> 30:40.180]  And then it's going to...
[30:40.180 --> 30:51.580]  Now, all the hackers that are coming on that plane from North America, I understand they will be accommodated by the hackers in Austria for how long?
[30:52.560 --> 30:55.140]  They'll be accommodated throughout the whole length of the trip.
[30:55.340 --> 30:59.640]  That's the first hope, POEP 1.6, which is sort of for the golden ratio.
[31:00.180 --> 31:03.220]  You know, we like to play a lot of numbers and side jokes with this.
[31:03.320 --> 31:08.140]  But you fly out to Vienna, and everything is taken care of for you, except meals.
[31:08.640 --> 31:12.200]  But your accommodations are taken care of.
[31:12.200 --> 31:13.500]  You'll be staying with hackers.
[31:14.520 --> 31:16.180]  You'll have your pick of places to stay.
[31:16.300 --> 31:19.220]  They're also renting a special apartment for some nights.
[31:19.220 --> 31:26.980]  And then after PlumberCon is over, you'll take a hackerspaces tour through Austria and through southern Germany on your way up to the camp.
[31:27.220 --> 31:30.180]  You'll meet up with the people who are going on overlap 2.0.
[31:30.640 --> 31:39.600]  We're going to be arriving from New York just to go to HAAR, and there'll be a big bus filled with hackers from southern Germany on their way up to the Netherlands, to the campsite.
[31:40.120 --> 31:55.300]  And since it's just an hour away from Dusseldorf and an hour away from Amsterdam, we figured it'd be better since we have such a tremendous amount of support and a bunch of history going back with the hackers in the Cologne area, Cologne, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt,
[31:55.320 --> 31:56.960]  and that whole entire area of Germany.
[31:56.960 --> 31:59.300]  We figured it'd be best to go from there.
[31:59.620 --> 32:07.440]  Then you get to go to HAAR, and everybody's on HOPE 2.0 and HOPE 1.6, will get to stay in the lodge, which is just for us.
[32:07.440 --> 32:18.680]  You'll be the only, out of thousands of hackers on site, you'll be the only ones enjoying indoor plumbing, indoor shelter, hot showers in your own kitchen, in addition to enjoying everything at the camp experience.
[32:18.840 --> 32:22.320]  Nick, this really seems like wimping out, I have to say.
[32:23.260 --> 32:23.700]  This what?
[32:23.900 --> 32:29.400]  It really seems like you're kind of wimping out with the hot showers and all this stuff.
[32:29.480 --> 32:30.280]  What's the point?
[32:32.040 --> 32:34.620]  Well, the point is to make it a little bit easier.
[32:34.620 --> 32:39.400]  You know, it's one thing to lug your camping gear from, you know, a couple hours away, like we're doing here.
[32:40.520 --> 32:44.660]  But it's another thing to lug it all the way overseas and have to take care of things like that.
[32:45.000 --> 32:48.260]  Nick, let me just put it in here and try to explain Mike's surliness.
[32:48.440 --> 32:50.560]  He just spent the whole day buying a tent in New Jersey.
[32:53.100 --> 32:57.520]  So he might be a little perturbed at somebody enjoying hot showers and electricity at Packer Camp.
[32:57.520 --> 33:01.060]  But anybody who goes on this tour will get all that and more.
[33:02.160 --> 33:04.020]  I'm kind of thinking about it myself, actually.
[33:04.160 --> 33:12.260]  I really think, though, that the fact that because of the last Hackers on the Plane, all of these hackerspaces got started and these people met is a real testament to the trip itself.
[33:12.440 --> 33:18.040]  Because, I mean, that's been a really interesting kind of culture to see growing over the past few years and see where it's ended up.
[33:18.040 --> 33:22.740]  And, you know, it's also kind of given, you know, hackers a lot of good mainstream press.
[33:22.860 --> 33:27.160]  And, you know, you see NYC Resistor written up in the New York Times now and then.
[33:27.280 --> 33:29.600]  And, you know, I think it's just really, really a good thing.
[33:30.820 --> 33:33.100]  So, Nick, can you tell us something about the actual dates?
[33:33.120 --> 33:37.600]  Like, if the person wants to go on the Vienna part, when do they leave from New York?
[33:37.760 --> 33:41.060]  And if they want to go on the purely horror part, when do they leave?
[33:42.360 --> 33:45.480]  All the details are on hackersonaplane.info.
[33:45.480 --> 33:53.980]  So, both of the flights leave on, leave the Tuesday before, I believe it's August 12th, if they leave the exact dates.
[33:55.120 --> 33:57.300]  I have to actually look at my phone to look at the exact dates.
[33:57.380 --> 34:01.780]  But on the website, hackersonaplane.info, all of the information is there.
[34:02.360 --> 34:04.980]  All of the details of what's included and what's not included in the trip.
[34:06.800 --> 34:23.200]  And, you know, the goal behind the project, again, is to just get people who might have been on the fence or might not otherwise be involved, or people who, you know, want to join the scene but are looking for a nice way to enter and are looking for a soft way of getting to meet all of the people.
[34:23.220 --> 34:30.160]  All the people who were on hackersonaplane last time were excited to go for horror, and they booked their tickets, and they got their horror tickets as soon as they were announced.
[34:30.860 --> 34:34.240]  And really, hackersonaplane isn't for people who have been on hackersonaplane before.
[34:34.240 --> 34:44.880]  It's for the people, you know, we want to invite into the scene in a nice, more relaxing way of going about it than just being dumped into a hacker camp or dumped for your first time in Europe.
[34:45.300 --> 34:49.020]  Hey, Nick, Nick, I understand there's a...
[34:49.020 --> 34:53.600]  Even though we did throw around dates like the one flight leaves August 4th, there is a deadline for this, right?
[34:53.600 --> 34:58.040]  People can't just show up in New York on August 4th and say, Hey, I want to get on.
[34:58.160 --> 35:03.580]  What do people have to do to actually reserve a seat on this trip?
[35:05.020 --> 35:10.620]  They have to go on hackersonaplane.info, and there's information on how to purchase your ticket there.
[35:10.880 --> 35:25.220]  There is a deadline, the deadline for the flight to Vienna, because the way that we were able to get this group purchase, you know, through the airlines in Germany was, you know, obviously giving them a deposit to guarantee the seats.
[35:25.720 --> 35:29.460]  And then we... and then their requirement for that, they would honor the...
[35:29.460 --> 35:41.160]  a very, very low fare, a lower fare than you could get, which is really the only way this works, because your ticket to HAR is included, your ticket to PlummerCons included, all the transportation, all of that stuff is included in the price.
[35:41.320 --> 35:44.600]  There's no way to do it for that price on your own, at least I haven't found one.
[35:45.280 --> 35:51.840]  But because of that, we have to give them the names at least a month in advance before the flight is booked.
[35:51.840 --> 35:58.380]  And obviously pay for all of the itinerary, pay the final installment for all of those tickets to get the base fare that makes this work.
[35:59.140 --> 36:07.860]  I thought we'd be, you know, easily sold out by now, but, you know, obviously the economy has hit a lot of people and just an arranging of everything like that.
[36:07.860 --> 36:09.460]  So basically, what's the deadline?
[36:09.820 --> 36:11.780]  So, Nick, what is the deadline for people waiting for?
[36:11.780 --> 36:21.960]  The deadline for Vienna is July 5th, and the deadline for the main HAR is July 12th.
[36:22.120 --> 36:24.640]  So if you're thinking about going to Vienna...
[36:24.640 --> 36:40.020]  So we're talking, what, this weekend is the deadline for reserving a seat on the full circle tour that goes to Austria, Tours made a lab, and PlumberCon, and the German hacker camps, and then HAR and back.
[36:40.200 --> 36:44.460]  So that's... if you want to do all that, you've got to... you've got to reserve your seat by when?
[36:45.460 --> 36:57.760]  You've got... you absolutely must reserve your seat by this weekend if you want to go on Vienna, and you must reserve your seat by weekend after next if you want to go to just the Netherlands.
[36:58.460 --> 37:08.260]  But then again, it's a matter of, you know, there's... there are a limited number of seats, and whoever ends up getting there first, you know, purchasing your ticket gets there first.
[37:08.360 --> 37:15.640]  For all I know, maybe a bunch of people listening to the show have gone online and bought their tickets right now, and it might, for all we know, might be sold out now.
[37:15.760 --> 37:19.060]  So really, try to move on it as quickly as possible.
[37:19.060 --> 37:21.660]  Keep checking hackersonaplane.info.
[37:21.660 --> 37:25.480]  You absolutely... the absolute deadline for Vienna is July 5th.
[37:25.600 --> 37:30.620]  But if we sell out both parts by then, then, you know, that's it.
[37:30.660 --> 37:38.660]  If you have any questions or wondering about things, you can always email info at hackersonaplane.info for more information.
[37:39.040 --> 37:52.640]  But absolutely, I mean, because we have to get everybody's name in by July 5th for the Vienna trip, and the weekend after that for the regular trip to the Netherlands.
[37:53.200 --> 37:58.280]  It's incumbent on people to not dally and try to get their things lined up and to try to purchase them now.
[37:58.380 --> 38:04.660]  If they can't, for whatever reason, use PayPal, email info at hackersonaplane.org, and we can try to work something out.
[38:04.660 --> 38:14.040]  I just want to make sure that this trip happens on schedule as it's supposed to be and that we bring 32 people from North America out to Europe just like we promised we'd do.
[38:14.400 --> 38:28.420]  I'm actually a lot more surprised that this didn't sell out really quickly myself, and I'm more concerned with what happens if it doesn't sell out, how that affects you, how that affects the whole hackers on a plane movement, which I think has done nothing but good.
[38:28.760 --> 38:48.460]  And I just hope that if people listening now, even if you know somebody that might want to take advantage of this, it really is kind of a sense of urgency here because having this not get taken advantage of, you've still got to cover the cost, and it's going to be a financial drain and an incentive to not do this again.
[38:48.460 --> 38:52.740]  I just think we'd lose so much by losing something like this.
[38:52.880 --> 39:01.420]  So by all means, please, go to hackersonaplane.info, and if you know somebody who will want to take advantage of this, time is of the essence.
[39:01.580 --> 39:02.960]  They've got to register by this weekend.
[39:03.260 --> 39:06.140]  And it really is... it'll be an amazing experience.
[39:06.400 --> 39:15.360]  I mean, you can tell by a number of people in the studio who are going over there for this event and for this series of events that this is history in the making.
[39:15.360 --> 39:21.380]  And if you can become a part of that, it's something you remember for the rest of your life.
[39:21.480 --> 39:22.300]  So by all means.
[39:22.460 --> 39:32.300]  I think if you're on the fence about going to HAAR or you've been putting it off until now, I think this would be your chance to do it, and it's absolutely worth it.
[39:32.900 --> 39:34.820]  I went to What the Hack four years ago.
[39:35.020 --> 39:37.800]  Unfortunately, I couldn't go to CCC because I was in the military.
[39:38.020 --> 39:42.120]  But I was at What the Hack four years ago, and it was amazing.
[39:42.120 --> 39:46.520]  It's probably the best experience I've ever had, best trip I've ever taken, so...
[39:46.520 --> 39:51.820]  Just to echo that statement, I went to the last camp in Germany, and it was one of the most unbelievable experiences I had.
[39:51.980 --> 39:55.720]  And if you're anything like me, an American hacker, then you don't really know what camping is.
[39:55.860 --> 39:58.860]  So this is one of the most unbelievable deals you can ever have.
[39:59.160 --> 40:02.700]  If you're going to the Netherlands and you're not camping, that's awesome.
[40:02.700 --> 40:04.460]  But yeah, you're camping, sort of.
[40:04.640 --> 40:05.640]  I mean, you're at the camp.
[40:05.860 --> 40:10.540]  Well, you're at a camp site, but you're inside a place with hot showers and electricity and things like that.
[40:10.540 --> 40:11.700]  Which doesn't count as camping.
[40:12.060 --> 40:13.120]  It's the best kind of camping.
[40:13.120 --> 40:15.800]  Seriously, I don't know what's with all this, like, anti-camping rhetoric.
[40:16.020 --> 40:21.540]  People who know me know I don't ever go outside and I can't handle this kind of camping, so...
[40:21.540 --> 40:23.700]  You know, I can still return that tent, Mike, you know?
[40:23.880 --> 40:25.100]  That state doesn't have to go to waste.
[40:25.320 --> 40:26.240]  It's a great tent.
[40:26.240 --> 40:26.780]  I love it.
[40:27.700 --> 40:29.980]  Is this one going to get washed down the river like the last one, too?
[40:29.980 --> 40:30.800]  No, it's super.
[40:30.920 --> 40:32.160]  Super waterproof tent.
[40:32.480 --> 40:33.640]  Does it have hot showers in it?
[40:35.340 --> 40:36.140]  Hot showers...
[40:36.140 --> 40:36.720]  Look, alright.
[40:37.440 --> 40:39.400]  Have you ever seen a thousand hackers?
[40:39.640 --> 40:40.240]  Hot showers?
[40:40.720 --> 40:42.740]  Maybe not on the top of people's minds.
[40:43.480 --> 40:50.860]  I'm wondering, from the perspective of somebody who might not even have a passport yet, there is enough time to get a passport in order to do this and take advantage.
[40:51.740 --> 40:57.060]  Nick, do you know if the person would need the passport in order to register to buy the ticket?
[40:57.060 --> 40:58.280]  No, no.
[40:58.460 --> 41:10.740]  You really don't need anything other than a name and an ability to purchase something through PayPal or other arrangements that you can make by emailing info at hackersonoplane.info.
[41:10.780 --> 41:12.320]  But because the U.S.
[41:12.380 --> 41:22.220]  Passport Office is actually really fast right now, if you get your application in today, even without paying any kind of rush charges, you'll have your passport in time to head out.
[41:24.200 --> 41:24.640]  Yeah.
[41:24.640 --> 41:27.780]  Okay, it's a really good deal again, hackersonoplane.info.
[41:29.660 --> 41:39.360]  Actually, if you're in New York, Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., or any of these cities, you can get your passport same day by walking into the passport office and coming back, you know, a little bit later.
[41:39.460 --> 41:45.440]  There's no... getting a passport is much easier and a much more rapid process now than it really ever has been.
[41:47.400 --> 41:50.620]  Now, I think we wanted to try and reach some people over in Vienna.
[41:50.960 --> 41:52.260]  Do we still want to try to do that?
[41:52.960 --> 41:57.600]  Yeah, but we're going to have to say goodbye and thanks to Nick before we can do that.
[41:57.740 --> 41:57.800]  Okay.
[41:57.800 --> 41:59.960]  You can't keep Nick on while they're on?
[42:00.320 --> 42:01.180]  Well, we can...
[42:01.180 --> 42:02.720]  I can duck out if need be.
[42:03.660 --> 42:04.060]  All right.
[42:04.440 --> 42:05.040]  Then we'll say...
[42:05.040 --> 42:06.120]  If we sacrificed Bernie, can we keep Nick?
[42:06.240 --> 42:08.900]  We'll sacrifice Bernie by Bernie.
[42:09.180 --> 42:14.260]  And we'll make our phone calls and talk amongst yourselves while I do that.
[42:14.800 --> 42:15.240]  Okay.
[42:15.240 --> 42:15.640]  Thank you, Bernie.
[42:16.040 --> 42:19.020]  Anyone else have any stories they want to go over while we're dialing?
[42:19.220 --> 42:19.480]  Sure.
[42:19.540 --> 42:26.920]  One that we talked about a little bit by email is the story that was in the New York Times titled Keeping News of Kidnapping Off Wikipedia.
[42:27.140 --> 42:31.780]  Basically, what happened was there was a reporter who got kidnapped by the Taliban.
[42:33.180 --> 42:44.540]  And the New York Times did a really vigorous job of keeping that out of the news because they knew that this was likely to threaten his life if his captors knew who he was and if he had any kind of value to them in that way.
[42:46.960 --> 42:57.960]  And at the same time, people were going up on Wikipedia and editing the page about this reporter and putting up information saying, yes, he's been kidnapped and stuff like that, which the New York Times was trying to keep out of the news.
[42:59.760 --> 43:01.680]  And so this caused a bit of a stir.
[43:03.240 --> 43:06.740]  Some editors from the New York Times were taking stuff down off of Wikipedia.
[43:06.740 --> 43:08.060]  That's not necessarily unusual.
[43:08.060 --> 43:21.920]  But then when that didn't stick, when people kept trying to put this information back up on Wikipedia, New York Times talked to Jimmy Wales, who's the head of Wikipedia, and basically said, or co-founder of Wikipedia, and they said to him, can you make sure this information stays down?
[43:22.040 --> 43:22.720]  And he did.
[43:22.800 --> 43:26.180]  And there was a block on the page making it so it couldn't be changed for a while.
[43:27.780 --> 43:29.060]  By now, the reporter's back.
[43:29.060 --> 43:29.620]  He's safe.
[43:29.960 --> 43:38.080]  But the question remains, is it within, you know, is it right for the New York Times to be able to sort of put a chill on Wikipedia in that way?
[43:38.080 --> 43:59.900]  I think what's interesting here is that Jimmy Wales was technically in the rules of Wikipedia because he was only, because there was no mention of his kidnapping in sources that Wikipedia guidelines considered to be, I don't know what the word is, but notability source.
[44:00.040 --> 44:00.200]  Right.
[44:00.440 --> 44:01.080]  Reliable source.
[44:01.080 --> 44:01.720]  Reliable source.
[44:01.920 --> 44:02.320]  Reliable source.
[44:02.400 --> 44:08.900]  Well, that's, I mean, that's the question is because what the sources were, the sources were that people were getting their information from who continued to put the information back up.
[44:09.020 --> 44:15.800]  They were going off of, you know, a couple of small news agencies, one of which was Afghani, and then I think a couple of blogs.
[44:16.040 --> 44:18.340]  And ultimately, of course, the information turned out to be true.
[44:18.540 --> 44:22.460]  So, I mean, who gets to decide what's a reliable news agency or not?
[44:22.460 --> 44:37.160]  Yeah, that's one of the, my biggest problems with Wikipedia is that it has such a strict reliability policy that it only comes from like old media sources that they consider to be acceptable and anything else that's come from any other sources they consider basically to not exist.
[44:37.340 --> 44:37.480]  Right.
[44:37.540 --> 44:43.140]  So is this anything new if Wikipedia is consistently sort of going, oh, we believe the New York Times, but we don't believe there's other people anyway.
[44:43.260 --> 44:45.340]  They're just sort of, you know, maintaining the way they've been maintaining.
[44:45.340 --> 44:50.820]  Shouldn't it also bother people that every single media outlet also decided not to run the story?
[44:51.200 --> 44:52.160]  Well, I mean, I don't know.
[44:52.280 --> 44:55.840]  I mean, there's, it's, it's, this is one of these sort of journalistic fine lines.
[44:56.160 --> 44:57.840]  The guy's life could have been in danger.
[44:58.080 --> 45:04.140]  And there are journalistic ethics that say, maybe we don't cover those stories in the cases where the guy's life may be in danger.
[45:04.400 --> 45:08.320]  But I think that's a pretty good reason to keep information out of the public eye.
[45:08.320 --> 45:15.460]  But the interesting thing to me is that they seem to only take this line when it's a journalist's life, which is in danger.
[45:15.600 --> 45:20.900]  They very rarely are interested in keeping it out of the news when someone who's not a journalist has been kidnapped.
[45:21.160 --> 45:21.420]  Like a celebrity.
[45:21.740 --> 45:21.920]  That's a good point.
[45:22.040 --> 45:22.660]  That's a very good point.
[45:22.800 --> 45:26.160]  Maybe I just don't get this, but when you kidnap somebody, don't you want people to know?
[45:28.140 --> 45:29.040]  If you're the...
[45:29.440 --> 45:33.440]  If you're the kidnappers, but we're talking the New York Times didn't want to get that out.
[45:33.440 --> 45:34.540]  It was a New York Times reporter.
[45:34.620 --> 45:37.460]  I don't know if we mentioned that, but the reporter in question did work for the Times.
[45:37.460 --> 45:42.620]  If you tell people that you have a kidnapping victim, you're all the more likely to work something out as far as getting them back.
[45:42.780 --> 45:49.180]  Well, then again, they think that the person that you kidnapped is more valuable, so they'll increase the price.
[45:49.300 --> 45:52.180]  So basically, New York Times was...
[45:53.480 --> 45:57.260]  Decreasing the value of this guy's life by saying, he's not newsworthy, we're not going to cover him.
[45:57.360 --> 46:00.280]  It's the same thing with the North Korean reporters.
[46:00.280 --> 46:07.320]  People are saying that the reason why they're not getting so much coverage is, A, because they're not white, blind women, and B, because they're...
[46:07.760 --> 46:10.620]  If they get less coverage, they're going to get...
[46:10.620 --> 46:12.540]  North Korea will think they're less important.
[46:12.540 --> 46:21.260]  So was the Times then using Wikipedia to keep the ransom price on his head down, and in a way, using Wikipedia like a ransom coupon or something?
[46:21.940 --> 46:22.620]  I don't know.
[46:22.620 --> 46:23.500]  It makes sense.
[46:23.640 --> 46:25.540]  I mean, look at the state of publishing today.
[46:25.780 --> 46:28.620]  You know, you've got to save every penny possible, so I totally understand it now.
[46:29.460 --> 46:30.500]  It all makes sense now.
[46:30.580 --> 46:34.740]  Anyway, I believe that we have friends in Vienna on the line now.
[46:34.980 --> 46:35.840]  We have Austrians.
[46:36.020 --> 46:37.600]  Nick, can you introduce these fine folk to us?
[46:39.680 --> 46:40.160]  Nick?
[46:40.160 --> 46:41.640]  Did we lose Nick?
[46:42.180 --> 46:43.500]  You're supposed to lose Bernie, not Nick.
[46:44.500 --> 46:47.620]  Well, we have Finn and Astra here.
[46:49.220 --> 46:49.700]  Hey.
[46:49.800 --> 46:50.440]  This is me.
[46:50.840 --> 46:51.660]  Hey, how are you doing?
[46:52.620 --> 46:53.040]  Hey.
[46:53.780 --> 46:54.720]  We're doing awesome.
[46:54.720 --> 46:55.380]  How are you doing?
[46:56.480 --> 46:57.760]  We have two different connections, eh?
[46:58.400 --> 46:59.220]  Doing pretty well.
[46:59.360 --> 47:00.220]  Trying to get to tour camp.
[47:00.340 --> 47:01.600]  How was Hacker Space Fest?
[47:03.160 --> 47:06.020]  Hacker Space Fest was like the awesomest thing ever.
[47:06.340 --> 47:07.160]  Like, seriously?
[47:08.800 --> 47:09.600]  Absolutely awesome.
[47:10.040 --> 47:11.440]  Hey guys, you're on off the hook.
[47:12.640 --> 47:13.000]  Hey.
[47:15.120 --> 47:18.800]  You want to tell us something about what's going on in Vienna, hacker-wise?
[47:23.690 --> 47:24.090]  Nope.
[47:25.070 --> 47:27.170]  Okay, I don't think I'm going through it, so you guys in the studio.
[47:27.390 --> 47:27.670]  No, no.
[47:28.330 --> 47:31.510]  The line was kind of down for a bit.
[47:31.690 --> 47:32.350]  What was that again?
[47:33.050 --> 47:40.210]  Could you tell us a little bit about what's going on over in Austria right now in terms of the hackerspaces over there and, I guess, the conference, PlumberCon and all that?
[47:41.270 --> 47:49.450]  Well, so right now we've finished a very nice night at the MATLAB with Security by Candlelight, which is some kind of workshop.
[47:49.450 --> 47:55.770]  We'll also have, in a little bigger form, at FlumberCon.
[47:56.570 --> 48:11.850]  And in fact, I just returned from Hacker Space Fest, which is some sort of, well, something between a festival and the Hacker Conference in Vitry-sur-Seine, which is just a couple of kilometers from Paris.
[48:12.130 --> 48:14.750]  And it was an awesome festival.
[48:15.430 --> 48:25.570]  I'm very, very glad that a lot of the speakers there will be touring Europe in the meantime and then coming to PlumberCon as well to present here and give a couple of workshops.
[48:25.570 --> 48:26.590]  Yeah.
[48:27.170 --> 48:38.130]  So generally about FlumberCon, this is going to be held between August the 7th and August the 9th, which is the weekend right before H.A.R.
[48:38.270 --> 48:44.730]  As Nick has already told, there's like the Hope sea flight connecting those two conferences.
[48:44.730 --> 49:14.290]  And besides, like, of course, a lot of partying and flash mobbing and the journey, I think, of which Finn will also want to talk, we're going to have one big workshop day, which will host pretty much anything you can think of between real microcontroller hardware reverse engineering over to lockpicking and some geek jewelry making,
[49:14.290 --> 49:15.150]  as I've heard.
[49:15.510 --> 49:39.510]  And then on Sunday, we have like our more theoretical talk day with speakers not only just focusing on security, but also trying to bring up, well, new tendencies in hacking and trying to describe them to an auditory, which is not so deeply into the InfoSec community,
[49:39.810 --> 49:50.690]  but more of, well, more of a hacker conference, as I'd like to see once with some sort of well-rounded schedule, I think.
[49:50.690 --> 49:54.450]  Yeah, probably Finn has more on the journey thing.
[49:55.230 --> 50:13.270]  Yeah, last week we decided to organize a, in principle, extended version of TAG, so a chase game, through half of Vienna, which will be half in the evening and at night.
[50:13.270 --> 50:29.570]  And we decided to set it on the PlumberCon weekend so that our foreign guests can also enjoy this, I hope, wonderful experience we'll be creating as an alternate reality game.
[50:31.190 --> 50:34.910]  We is being two or three Metalab members.
[50:34.910 --> 50:41.690]  So how are you using, you know, what kind of technology are you using to kind of create this game, or is it...
[50:43.970 --> 50:48.590]  Basically, Google Maps for the route, and Princes for the people.
[50:48.770 --> 50:59.310]  So this is kind of low-tech, and it's inspired by a game created by the SF0 collective in San Francisco.
[50:59.310 --> 51:02.110]  Actually, this sounds pretty high-tech to me.
[51:02.450 --> 51:06.450]  I mean, the technologies you're using are brains and feet.
[51:06.710 --> 51:13.370]  And I don't think we ever try to reverse and re-engineer these things to work in just the same way that humans work.
[51:14.650 --> 51:17.830]  We can actually talk about very high-profile games.
[51:18.510 --> 51:19.330]  Yay for evolution.
[51:21.330 --> 51:22.270]  Sounds amazing.
[51:22.490 --> 51:25.730]  And, yeah, I hope that a lot of people take advantage of that.
[51:25.730 --> 51:27.630]  But can you guys tell us something about Metalab?
[51:27.750 --> 51:28.930]  How long it's been around for?
[51:29.630 --> 51:32.370]  Well, it's been around for over three years now.
[51:33.090 --> 51:37.410]  We just had our birthday, or three years anniversary.
[51:38.810 --> 51:40.670]  Both party and exhibition.
[51:41.530 --> 51:47.650]  Because we were like, oh, we should make a party, but we should also make talks before the party.
[51:48.510 --> 51:49.970]  But why only talks?
[51:50.190 --> 51:51.370]  Let's make an exhibition.
[51:51.370 --> 51:51.970]  Yeah.
[51:52.650 --> 52:15.190]  That was pretty nice, because Metalab has been sponsored by Microsoft from this event, which we exploited by taking their nicely-given, donated eight Microsoft PCs, which, of course, we couldn't find any other use for other than playing Counter-Strike day and night.
[52:16.570 --> 52:17.470]  We had fun.
[52:18.310 --> 52:24.190]  We borrowed them to show our presentations on them, because we don't have so many portable hardware.
[52:25.750 --> 52:29.830]  But, you know, when you have Microsoft laptops, you know how to use them.
[52:30.450 --> 52:33.490]  Well, now, you guys have a big audience of Americans listening right now.
[52:33.570 --> 52:40.050]  Is there anything you can say to them to convince them to take advantage of the whole hackers on a plane thing and become part of this magical event?
[52:40.810 --> 52:42.130]  I think definitely.
[52:42.610 --> 52:58.490]  Like, Europe, the old country, also, in terms of hack meetings, it's not only just about the hacker conferences, because I know you guys in the States have pretty cool hacker conferences as well, talking about the last hope and stuff.
[52:58.490 --> 53:08.850]  But also, you'll get to see a couple of the hackerspaces that are around in old Germany and Austria for a bit.
[53:09.150 --> 53:22.650]  And if I recall correctly, like, the hackers on a plane two years ago would have taken its, well, participants to some of the hackerspaces as well.
[53:22.650 --> 53:30.770]  And actually, there's been some of the hackerspaces that are present in the US right now have been founded on this trip.
[53:31.410 --> 53:47.230]  I'm thinking of NYCR there in New York City or at Noisebridge, where just the idea of creating a hackerspace was found by the actual experience of being for the first time.
[53:47.230 --> 53:48.590]  Not really.
[53:48.970 --> 53:54.270]  Being at a hackerspace for the first time, which is, I believe, very amazing.
[53:54.610 --> 54:02.790]  I mean, if I think back on how I saw a hackerspace the first time, it is a very amazing thing to experience.
[54:03.250 --> 54:22.890]  So, going on the whole trip in a group is definitely, makes definitely a lot of sense as compared to, you know, booking your ticket to her and spending your four days there in your tent alone and flying back, probably.
[54:23.530 --> 54:26.910]  This might be a life-changing experience, I tell you.
[54:27.890 --> 54:29.430]  To a lot of us, it has been.
[54:30.390 --> 54:38.830]  I concur, because my life has been changed many times by things that happen at hacker camps and hacker events of various sorts, and it's always a change for the better, I think.
[54:39.670 --> 54:41.310]  It is, it is, definitely.
[54:41.850 --> 55:07.750]  I mean, the whole community is growing, and it just makes, I don't know, I think it's a step into, like, the direction of making the world a better place to live in, as in having more and more people taking advantage of the technologies they're given and using them in new and exciting ways,
[55:08.510 --> 55:12.510]  which makes much more sense in the community than on your own.
[55:13.030 --> 55:15.570]  We're quickly running out of time this hour.
[55:15.810 --> 55:18.230]  Any last thoughts you want to share with us?
[55:19.230 --> 55:19.830]  Sure.
[55:20.690 --> 55:22.070]  What are we going to share?
[55:22.070 --> 55:33.230]  Probably I want to share the link, because I haven't yet announced it, but the link to PlumberCon is both HTTP or HDPS,
[55:36.330 --> 55:37.370]  PlumberCon.org.
[55:38.990 --> 55:47.950]  The link to HAR, if you haven't yet heard about it, is HAR, like H-A-R-2009.org, as well.
[55:48.370 --> 55:50.190]  And they also have a wiki site.
[55:51.770 --> 55:58.890]  The link to MATLAB, probably, is M-E-T-A-L-A-B, MATLAB.AT.
[56:01.030 --> 56:03.750]  And, yeah, I guess that was it.
[56:03.750 --> 56:07.370]  And everything else you can find by browsing through those links.
[56:07.550 --> 56:08.150]  Very true.
[56:08.250 --> 56:09.050]  There's always Google.
[56:09.510 --> 56:15.470]  And then there's the link that can make this all happen for the people listening to us now in the States, HATONAPLANE.INFO.
[56:15.650 --> 56:21.550]  And if you become part of that magical group of people, you'll have a time that you can talk about to your grandchildren, guaranteed.
[56:22.550 --> 56:26.370]  And, in fact, if you have grandchildren, you can come as well, because it's amazing.
[56:26.570 --> 56:27.230]  It's for everybody.
[56:27.810 --> 56:28.350]  All right.
[56:28.670 --> 56:30.550]  All right, well, I think that's about it, then.
[56:30.570 --> 56:31.390]  I think we're about out of time.
[56:31.710 --> 56:36.070]  This weekend, this Friday, it's first Friday of the month, we have 2,600 meetings all over the world.
[56:36.390 --> 56:36.790]  All right.
[56:36.790 --> 56:40.770]  I'm going to go explore this abandoned missile silo here in the middle of Washington State a little bit more.
[56:40.970 --> 56:42.770]  So I'll talk about that next week when I'm there.
[56:43.410 --> 56:43.690]  All right.
[56:43.910 --> 56:44.090]  Enjoy.
[56:44.250 --> 56:46.090]  We are so jealous about that here.
[56:47.610 --> 56:48.130]  All right.
[56:50.530 --> 56:51.270]  Thanks, everyone.
[56:51.570 --> 56:54.070]  And we'll be back on next week.
[56:55.130 --> 56:55.370]  Bye.
[56:55.790 --> 56:56.250]  Good night.
[57:28.700 --> 57:29.800]  Bye.
[57:42.780 --> 57:42.940]  Bye.
[57:44.680 --> 57:45.240]  Bye.
[57:46.620 --> 57:46.880]  Bye.
[57:47.340 --> 57:47.360]  Bye.
[57:49.040 --> 57:51.360]  R & Opo, I'm a sicko.
[57:51.500 --> 57:52.420]  On my cell phone.
[57:53.280 --> 57:56.520]  All the people in the circle.
[57:57.620 --> 58:00.880]  R & Opo, later they go from the middle.
[58:02.980 --> 58:05.100]  Then I just dropped my cell phone.
[58:06.020 --> 58:07.400]  My cell phone's done.
[58:07.600 --> 58:09.280]  Then I just stopped a minute.
[58:10.380 --> 58:11.700]  The minute's done.
[58:11.920 --> 58:13.800]  Then I just use the landline.
[58:14.560 --> 58:15.980]  To call my phone.
[58:16.160 --> 58:17.820]  Then I check in the voicemail.
[58:18.820 --> 58:22.620]  The message was...
[58:24.220 --> 58:26.580]  No when and where to hit it.
[58:27.460 --> 58:30.840]  And just say no, no where and when to hold it.
[58:36.240 --> 58:39.660]  And make it go, no how it went to suck it.
[58:40.860 --> 58:42.040]  No when to blow.
[58:45.220 --> 58:46.260]  Drop the phone.
[58:49.160 --> 58:51.880]  All the people in
[59:00.530 --> 59:01.090]  the circle.
[59:01.090 --> 59:02.210]  We
[59:34.920 --> 59:36.360]  don't want to have a signal.
[59:36.620 --> 59:38.020]  I'm the self-moving singer.
[59:38.240 --> 59:39.380]  Let's go to stand nice.
[59:41.630 --> 59:43.750]  I'm the one stop for second.
[59:45.310 --> 59:46.150]  Second's done.
[59:46.450 --> 59:48.010]  I'm the one stop for second.
[59:48.530 --> 59:49.130]  Done.
[59:50.740 --> 59:52.160]  I'm the one stop for second.
[59:53.820 --> 59:54.660]  Second's done.
[59:55.000 --> 59:56.400]  I'm the one stop for second.
[59:58.140 --> 59:59.040]  Second's done.
[59:59.940 --> 01:00:03.740]  Yeah, off the hook strikes again.
[01:00:03.740 --> 01:00:08.220]  Again, you're listening to WBAI New York 99.5.
[01:00:08.640 --> 01:00:10.820]  How about that Planet X?
[01:00:10.820 --> 01:00:12.200]  You can see it now.
[01:00:12.500 --> 01:00:23.400]  Well, you know, you can get the WBAI on the web at WBAI.org and you can do lots of things.