[00:04.130 --> 00:08.230]  If this were 5 o'clock on a Thursday, that music would mark the beginning of Behind the News.
[00:08.510 --> 00:15.350]  But it's not, so instead I'm here to invite you to join me, Doug Henwood, as I comment on the economic news and interview a wide variety of guests.
[00:15.710 --> 00:19.190]  Authors, activists, think tankers, and even the occasional Nobel Prize winner.
[00:19.470 --> 00:21.770]  Economics and politics from New York City to the world.
[00:21.890 --> 00:23.270]  What's happening and what it all means.
[00:23.550 --> 00:26.470]  Behind the News with Doug Henwood, Thursdays from 5 to 6 p.m.
[00:26.490 --> 00:27.630]  right here on WBAI.
[00:32.670 --> 00:39.730]  Hi, this is Tony Trishka, and you're listening to WBAI, listener-supported, non-commercial radio in New York.
[00:44.180 --> 00:45.040]  And that's true.
[00:45.060 --> 00:50.140]  You are listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where the time is 7 o'clock.
[00:51.720 --> 00:53.120]  And that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:56.520 --> 01:00.760]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:01.860 --> 01:06.240]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:07.340 --> 01:14.530]  We couldn't get much wood from Bilibon, but the best is back the worst.
[01:15.210 --> 01:18.090]  I hope that's understood from Bilibon.
[02:43.700 --> 02:44.720]  And good evening for everybody.
[02:44.820 --> 02:45.480]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:45.580 --> 02:48.200]  Emmanuel Gelskin here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:48.320 --> 02:50.500]  Joined this week by Mike.
[02:50.880 --> 02:51.100]  Hi.
[02:51.360 --> 02:51.940]  Not Kevin.
[02:52.340 --> 02:52.680]  Hello.
[02:52.900 --> 02:53.100]  Jim.
[02:53.500 --> 02:53.700]  Hi.
[02:54.220 --> 02:54.720]  Rob T.
[02:54.840 --> 02:55.280]  Firefly.
[02:55.540 --> 02:55.900]  Good evening.
[02:56.060 --> 02:56.360]  Gus.
[02:56.580 --> 02:57.000]  Oh, hi.
[02:57.100 --> 02:57.620]  Voltaire.
[02:57.780 --> 02:57.920]  Hello.
[02:58.160 --> 03:00.220]  And down in Philadelphia, Bernie S.
[03:00.840 --> 03:02.120]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[03:02.120 --> 03:11.800]  You know, I don't often look at the tons of spam that we get, but sometimes I just decide to dive in and see just what's out there, what special deals are.
[03:11.880 --> 03:12.660]  Where's that, starved for content?
[03:12.820 --> 03:15.140]  Well, no, not really, but I was just kind of bored.
[03:15.860 --> 03:18.340]  And I just wanted to see, you know, what kind of special deals are out there.
[03:19.100 --> 03:20.780]  And, well, this is a good one.
[03:20.780 --> 03:27.080]  Uh, apparently there's a new class of armored multi-purpose vehicle that's available to law enforcement for field testing.
[03:27.140 --> 03:27.760]  You've seen this, Rob?
[03:28.080 --> 03:28.600]  I have.
[03:28.720 --> 03:28.860]  Yeah.
[03:29.040 --> 03:32.820]  Today's rapid response armored vehicles must be like a Swiss army knife.
[03:32.940 --> 03:44.800]  It needs all the attachments and versatility to meet the various needs of law enforcement in situations ranging from hostage situations to shooting rampages, terrorist attacks, urban riots, and natural disasters.
[03:44.800 --> 03:56.500]  Now, the TRAC, T-R-A-C, Tactical Response Armored Car, from Dolman Corporation, is a fully armored vehicle designed for ultimate versatility in any situation, urban location, or terrain.
[03:56.780 --> 04:00.780]  It is available with a host of attachments, including the improved assault platform.
[04:00.780 --> 04:03.460]  And you know how much we've been complaining about the old assault platform.
[04:03.580 --> 04:09.280]  This is an improved one, and it allows maximum visibility while providing superior protection.
[04:09.520 --> 04:12.820]  So there are a whole list of circumstances you read that this can be used.
[04:12.860 --> 04:14.620]  I think my favorite is the urban riot.
[04:14.800 --> 04:18.380]  So we just have to start an urban riot, and we can get to see this in action.
[04:18.540 --> 04:20.400]  Well, it won't be the first time we started an urban riot.
[04:20.470 --> 04:25.120]  Is anybody having, like, weird flashbacks to Octavia Butler's parable of the sower parable of the talent things?
[04:25.120 --> 04:26.180]  Like, in those books...
[04:26.180 --> 04:27.520]  I had that, but I wasn't sure what it was.
[04:27.560 --> 04:31.230]  The promise keepers were driving cars like that.
[04:31.280 --> 04:33.640]  And I don't know if I want these things out there roaming.
[04:33.740 --> 04:38.820]  I mean, like, this is being marketed to the same people who are being sold penile enlargement systems, right?
[04:39.300 --> 04:40.440]  Do they really need these cars?
[04:40.920 --> 04:41.850]  Well, I don't know.
[04:42.230 --> 04:43.520]  It might be a two-for-one deal.
[04:43.620 --> 04:44.180]  I'm not really sure.
[04:44.180 --> 04:46.980]  I mean, generally, if you have one, you don't buy the other.
[04:47.230 --> 04:51.090]  These vehicles are designed with law enforcement personnel safety as the number one priority.
[04:51.320 --> 04:53.040]  I'm sure we can all get behind that.
[04:53.420 --> 04:55.940]  Now, and this is the thing that really gets my interest.
[04:56.120 --> 04:58.140]  And just wait until you see how it arrives.
[04:58.600 --> 05:00.800]  Now, I want to see how it arrives.
[05:00.940 --> 05:02.440]  That's worth getting it just for that.
[05:02.600 --> 05:04.360]  So they wrap it with a bow, or...?
[05:04.360 --> 05:19.090]  Now, Davis Fleming, who is a director of Dolman Corporation located in Conklin, New York, says to us, if we're interested in field testing the tactical response armored car, all we have to do is click somewhere on this piece of paper, and we'll email you the link to the website.
[05:19.260 --> 05:20.760]  So I say we do it.
[05:20.760 --> 05:23.350]  I say we do a field test of this thing.
[05:23.400 --> 05:25.500]  Is this one of those invite-only beta services?
[05:26.500 --> 05:28.800]  Well, I imagine this wasn't sent to a whole lot of people.
[05:28.980 --> 05:30.820]  I think that we're kind of exclusive.
[05:30.980 --> 05:31.100]  Rob?
[05:31.260 --> 05:33.540]  I think this could add a lot to our show if we got one of these.
[05:33.680 --> 05:35.300]  I mean, we could put bumper stickers on it.
[05:35.600 --> 05:35.860]  Uh-huh.
[05:36.040 --> 05:36.280]  Jim?
[05:36.440 --> 05:37.020]  How much?
[05:37.140 --> 05:37.600]  How much?
[05:37.600 --> 05:38.460]  That's a good question.
[05:39.100 --> 05:39.880]  They don't say.
[05:39.880 --> 05:46.520]  And I think it's probably something they don't feel is appropriate for the first contact situation, but...
[05:46.520 --> 05:48.720]  You know, even if we knew, we wouldn't be allowed to say on the air.
[05:48.840 --> 05:51.580]  Yeah, but I have a toll-free number here for Cindy, who will probably tell you that.
[05:51.980 --> 05:54.060]  And maybe we can call her later and find out.
[05:54.740 --> 05:56.280]  We need to share this toll-free number?
[05:57.020 --> 05:57.860]  I'll share it with you.
[05:57.920 --> 05:58.660]  I'm not going to share it on the air.
[05:58.680 --> 06:00.780]  I think we've advertised the assault vehicle enough.
[06:00.900 --> 06:02.320]  Should we bring up a dial tone?
[06:02.980 --> 06:04.320]  No, let's not bring up a dial tone.
[06:04.960 --> 06:05.880]  We're not going to...
[06:06.710 --> 06:08.420]  Well, you want to call her live on the air?
[06:08.500 --> 06:08.880]  Is that what you're saying?
[06:08.880 --> 06:10.880]  I'm just saying, if you want to, we have the technology.
[06:11.680 --> 06:12.400]  I don't know.
[06:12.500 --> 06:13.000]  Bernie, go ahead.
[06:13.080 --> 06:13.860]  Let me think about this.
[06:14.200 --> 06:16.780]  Well, if it's 7 o'clock and they're in New York, they might be closed.
[06:16.880 --> 06:23.000]  But if you test drove this thing, you might resemble Michael Dukakis and some of those Republican ads.
[06:24.480 --> 06:28.500]  But I saw one of these things, not made by the same company, apparently.
[06:28.700 --> 06:38.860]  But when I was in Switzerland about three years ago, as my plane landed in Zurich and was taxiing up to the gate, there was one of these...
[06:38.860 --> 06:44.840]  these armored personnel carriers with a machine gun on top of it and the flashing yellow light that was shadowing the plane.
[06:45.040 --> 06:48.220]  It was right next to it, like, maybe 30 feet outside my window.
[06:48.440 --> 06:52.100]  It was almost like they were looking at my window, but I knew they didn't know I was in there.
[06:52.180 --> 07:04.340]  But in any case, it followed the plane from, like, when it got off the runway all the way to the gate, I don't know whether it was just a demonstration of, or whether they thought something was going on in that plane, but it was very... I even got some pictures of it.
[07:04.400 --> 07:05.060]  It was very weird.
[07:05.140 --> 07:09.300]  There's a machine gun on top of this armored personnel carrier that followed the plane all the way over.
[07:09.360 --> 07:10.880]  And this was in Switzerland, of all places.
[07:10.980 --> 07:11.640]  In Zurich.
[07:11.760 --> 07:19.820]  You know, you think, like, well, I guess they're very... they're very thorough about their own protection, and they just don't take any guff from anybody.
[07:19.820 --> 07:23.260]  Now, I've given Mike the clearance to call the toll-free number.
[07:24.180 --> 07:29.960]  So, he's going to be doing that, and we're going to see if we can maybe get a price on this thing, just to satisfy our curiosity.
[07:30.000 --> 07:30.140]  Rob?
[07:30.380 --> 07:32.840]  There's a place near my house where I can pick up the fuzzy dice.
[07:33.420 --> 07:33.740]  Okay.
[07:33.940 --> 07:34.280]  All right.
[07:34.300 --> 07:35.420]  Well, you've got that covered, then.
[07:35.480 --> 07:35.660]  Yes.
[07:36.060 --> 07:36.460]  All right.
[07:37.080 --> 07:41.100]  It makes sense that it was in Switzerland's airport, because, you know, it's like a Swiss army knife, right?
[07:41.460 --> 07:41.780]  Yeah.
[07:41.940 --> 07:43.580]  Well, that particular case, yes.
[07:43.660 --> 07:44.400]  Are you getting through, Mike?
[07:45.120 --> 07:46.620]  It's taking a long time to dial toll-free numbers.
[07:46.680 --> 07:48.700]  I'm just wondering what you want me to do.
[07:48.700 --> 07:51.380]  They'll call the toll-free number by pushing those little buttons with numbers on them.
[07:51.700 --> 07:52.180]  Okay.
[07:53.500 --> 07:54.080]  Got it?
[07:54.160 --> 07:54.380]  All right.
[07:54.540 --> 07:55.140]  All right.
[07:55.340 --> 07:57.120]  It's... all the buttons have been pushed.
[07:57.660 --> 07:58.400]  Power PR.
[07:58.760 --> 08:01.200]  Our normal business hours are 6 a.m.
[08:01.480 --> 08:02.320]  to 4 p.m.
[08:02.660 --> 08:03.660]  Monday through Friday.
[08:03.940 --> 08:07.660]  If you know your party's extension, you may dial it at any time.
[08:07.860 --> 08:11.440]  For the company directory, press pound, or please call...
[08:11.440 --> 08:16.920]  Using the keys on your telephone, please spell the first name of the person, then press pound.
[08:16.920 --> 08:18.760]  We're going to call Cindy, of course.
[08:18.860 --> 08:19.940]  Yeah, but I don't know Cindy's last name.
[08:21.040 --> 08:22.500]  They said the first name.
[08:22.720 --> 08:22.860]  Oh.
[08:25.400 --> 08:26.080]  Annette Deming.
[08:26.240 --> 08:27.480]  Well, that's good work there.
[08:27.560 --> 08:28.580]  How'd you get Annette out of Cindy?
[08:28.700 --> 08:29.500]  We'll talk to Annette.
[08:30.380 --> 08:30.740]  Okay.
[08:30.860 --> 08:33.660]  Well, hopefully we'll figure out their system and get a price.
[08:34.380 --> 08:34.740]  Okay.
[08:34.780 --> 08:35.920]  But that's not all that's happening, obviously.
[08:36.100 --> 08:37.420]  That's one interesting thing.
[08:37.500 --> 08:41.240]  This is something a listener sent us, though, that really blew me away.
[08:41.240 --> 08:47.700]  Anyway, guys, I was standing behind someone who was filling out the account information for Pandora.com.
[08:48.740 --> 08:51.550]  And if you listen long enough, you have to supply them with an email address, et cetera.
[08:51.740 --> 08:56.460]  I informed him that he could fill in all fake information since they don't actually validate email addresses.
[08:57.020 --> 08:59.920]  His reply was, well, why wouldn't I want to put in my real information?
[09:00.240 --> 09:01.570]  And that was enough to get me going.
[09:01.680 --> 09:03.960]  But the shocker followed after he entered his real information.
[09:04.420 --> 09:21.400]  Pandora then greeted him with a prompt asking him for his password to his email account so it could send all of his friends in his address book an email telling them how cool Pandora.com was with the assurance that your email and password will only be used for accessing your address book.
[09:21.660 --> 09:23.500]  We won't do anything evil with them.
[09:23.640 --> 09:25.940]  I'm sure I don't even have to comment about this one.
[09:27.050 --> 09:29.880]  Thanks, longtime listener from the Pacific Northwest.
[09:30.220 --> 09:36.220]  You know, I was talking to Volta about this on the way in, and he said this is something that's standard that lots of companies do.
[09:36.400 --> 09:38.220]  Importing address books is nothing new, but that's to help you.
[09:38.220 --> 09:41.760]  Giving your password out to your email account to another company, that's standard?
[09:41.960 --> 09:46.500]  Well, I think the scary part is that there's no benefit of giving out your email address and password.
[09:46.760 --> 09:50.360]  It's not like you can add these people to your friend list on the Pandora website.
[09:50.360 --> 09:56.740]  It's just that you basically spam your friends with... I mean, I don't know why anybody would click that, but it's nothing new for like...
[09:56.740 --> 10:03.920]  But giving your... I mean, it just... it seems as monumentally stupid as you could possibly be to give your password out to a third party.
[10:04.100 --> 10:05.050]  And this is bizarre.
[10:05.160 --> 10:08.260]  I don't understand quite how they get the address book from your email password.
[10:08.500 --> 10:10.520]  I mean, I don't know about you guys, but my address book is stored locally.
[10:10.840 --> 10:12.950]  Well, it only works if you...
[10:12.950 --> 10:24.040]  Presumably, I haven't looked at this particular site, but as Voltaire said, there's a number of sites that have similar functionality, and it usually only works with sort of the biggest free email providers, Gmail, Hotmail, whatever.
[10:24.040 --> 10:31.800]  The blind faith of Gmail continues, and people say, oh, Gmail, okay, fine, I'll give the password over here, and everything will be integrated, and it's all Google, so it's all good.
[10:32.420 --> 10:34.330]  Is Pandora Google yet, or will it be soon?
[10:34.340 --> 10:34.780]  I don't know.
[10:34.960 --> 10:35.900]  It doesn't have to be Google.
[10:36.020 --> 10:39.160]  They just have to use the Gmail API or whatever.
[10:40.540 --> 10:45.710]  But as Voltaire said, there are a number of sites that do this, and I guess Gmail users are used to it.
[10:45.760 --> 10:46.100]  I don't know.
[10:46.100 --> 10:49.580]  It strikes me as insane how trusting people are.
[10:49.680 --> 10:56.240]  Not only... just putting all your secure email on a third party's site is something that I still have problems with.
[10:56.760 --> 10:58.540]  And yet, everybody I know seems to be doing it now.
[10:58.700 --> 11:05.320]  They don't seem to care that your most private information is being stored unencrypted somewhere else where you have no control over it.
[11:05.400 --> 11:09.820]  And I guess I'm turning into a paranoid person by saying that's even an issue.
[11:09.920 --> 11:10.060]  Gus?
[11:10.140 --> 11:10.340]  I don't know.
[11:10.420 --> 11:14.100]  I mean, I feel like we're starting to lose the last battles in that.
[11:14.100 --> 11:19.060]  And people should call in and correct me if I'm wrong on this, but like, it seems like it's harder and harder to run your own server.
[11:19.280 --> 11:23.240]  So having an alternative to putting stuff up on somebody else's server is really hard.
[11:23.340 --> 11:24.220]  I mean, you're dealing with spam.
[11:24.500 --> 11:27.540]  If you have a blog that's not particularly well protected, you're dealing with comment spam.
[11:27.540 --> 11:32.660]  And I have friends who've been doing that up in Boston for quite some time, and I think they're starting to give up on it.
[11:32.760 --> 11:39.020]  It's just the security issues are so high that it may be becoming prohibitively expensive time-wise to run your own server.
[11:40.200 --> 11:40.520]  Emmanuel?
[11:40.720 --> 11:41.260]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[11:41.260 --> 11:45.540]  I think this company is very aptly named Pandora, that box.
[11:45.740 --> 11:46.000]  Yeah.
[11:46.320 --> 11:47.060]  Yeah, it really is.
[11:47.060 --> 11:54.460]  If you enter your email, and if you enter your email login for them to use for whatever they want, you're clearly opening Pandora's box.
[11:55.220 --> 11:57.800]  Yeah, more true than I think they ever intended.
[11:58.240 --> 11:58.920]  But, wow.
[11:59.200 --> 12:01.200]  Thanks to that listener for alerting us to this.
[12:01.780 --> 12:06.200]  Another listener writes in to apologize for bothering us with the email that he's about to write.
[12:06.540 --> 12:07.880]  You know, folks, you don't always have to do that.
[12:07.960 --> 12:09.480]  You don't always have to apologize for bothering us.
[12:09.480 --> 12:10.340]  It's really no bother.
[12:10.460 --> 12:11.140]  We like to get email.
[12:11.300 --> 12:12.280]  In fact, the more email, the better.
[12:12.500 --> 12:14.920]  If it truly is a bother, then don't send the email at all.
[12:15.020 --> 12:15.100]  Yeah.
[12:15.100 --> 12:16.560]  But in most cases, it isn't.
[12:16.760 --> 12:19.220]  After you've written the email, ask yourself, is this a bother?
[12:19.300 --> 12:20.640]  And then apologize at the end of the email.
[12:20.740 --> 12:23.220]  Don't assume before you start writing the email that it's going to be a bother.
[12:23.920 --> 12:24.820]  You see, now I've just...
[12:25.320 --> 12:29.060]  I've basically scolded the person and it probably feels terrible and will never write an email again.
[12:29.060 --> 12:33.180]  The only people who really need to worry are the ones who keep sending us those things that say, press release, because...
[12:33.180 --> 12:34.040]  Oh my God, yeah.
[12:34.360 --> 12:34.640]  Kind of crummy.
[12:34.840 --> 12:35.040]  Yeah.
[12:35.280 --> 12:36.120]  Let me tell you what I...
[12:36.120 --> 12:37.920]  Some suggestions for those people later.
[12:39.420 --> 12:46.140]  Yeah, sorry to bother you about this, but I just missed the ticket sale of Horror 2009 by one day due to some traveling to remote areas.
[12:46.340 --> 12:47.720]  And now they no longer have tickets.
[12:47.820 --> 12:48.280]  Yes, that's right.
[12:48.340 --> 12:49.300]  Horror is sold out, folks.
[12:49.320 --> 12:50.340]  We were talking about last week.
[12:50.400 --> 12:51.480]  I bet you weren't expecting that.
[12:51.560 --> 12:52.560]  But yeah, they sold out.
[12:53.480 --> 12:57.340]  And a lot of people are left out in the wilderness.
[12:57.920 --> 12:58.640]  Right, Voltaire?
[12:58.880 --> 13:00.360]  Not getting your ticket in time?
[13:00.640 --> 13:01.000]  Yes.
[13:01.420 --> 13:02.960]  Yeah, now we've got to figure out what to do with you.
[13:03.420 --> 13:04.160]  Oh boy, yeah.
[13:04.460 --> 13:06.400]  You know, folks, you have to take things seriously.
[13:06.400 --> 13:10.480]  When we tell you that there's deadlines coming up, we mean it.
[13:10.580 --> 13:10.920]  We mean it.
[13:11.080 --> 13:15.400]  Anyway, would it be possible for you guys to ask your listeners, if someone has a spare ticket I can buy?
[13:15.480 --> 13:23.900]  If so, they can contact me using my email address, which is over in the Netherlands, suntac, S-U-N-T-A-C, at dds.nl.
[13:24.140 --> 13:26.880]  Or maybe, you know, a way to still get into HAR 2009.
[13:27.180 --> 13:31.440]  Well, actually, I've heard of a hole in the fence, like three-quarters of a mile in.
[13:31.940 --> 13:32.760]  Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[13:33.220 --> 13:38.840]  There is a wiki you can access through the har2009.org site.
[13:38.960 --> 13:43.120]  There's a wiki for ticket sharing, not sharing per se, but if people have an extra ticket.
[13:43.880 --> 13:46.200]  Yeah, sharing won't work because they have a sophisticated system.
[13:46.200 --> 13:47.640]  If you use it once, you can't use it again.
[13:49.600 --> 13:57.860]  But there's a section on the wiki for people who have an extra ticket and that sort of thing, where people can meet up with those people.
[13:58.040 --> 14:08.040]  So I encourage people who are looking for a ticket or have an extra ticket to go to the HAR 2009.org site, and go to the wiki for tickets, and you can come together there.
[14:08.320 --> 14:09.080]  It's weird, though.
[14:09.140 --> 14:12.580]  I mean, how does an outdoor event run out of space for people?
[14:12.580 --> 14:12.880]  I know.
[14:12.980 --> 14:13.780]  I know how it happened.
[14:14.040 --> 14:14.760]  Okay, how did it happen?
[14:14.760 --> 14:23.380]  Well, this particular event is being held at a sort of a park-type situation, unlike it just being truly in the wilderness.
[14:23.640 --> 14:32.340]  It's an outdoor event, but it's a park that's designed for events, even though it's, you know, very rural and all that.
[14:32.340 --> 14:39.880]  And apparently they have fairly strict occupancy requirements as far as you can't have more than so many people.
[14:39.900 --> 14:44.940]  So it's probably a legal requirement they can't have more than so many people at these grounds.
[14:46.100 --> 14:50.660]  And apparently the HAR 2009 organizers underestimated the demand.
[14:50.800 --> 14:53.600]  And this was totally unexpected to them.
[14:53.600 --> 14:55.580]  They totally expected to have tickets at the door.
[14:56.620 --> 14:59.220]  And, you know, some could argue they should have held on to some.
[15:01.920 --> 15:02.840]  But anyhow...
[15:02.840 --> 15:08.120]  Well, we had them on last week, and they didn't know about this possibility then, apparently, because it wasn't mentioned.
[15:08.280 --> 15:09.200]  So, yeah, it was a surprise.
[15:09.620 --> 15:11.240]  A big rush at the last minute, apparently.
[15:11.480 --> 15:11.720]  Mm-hmm.
[15:11.800 --> 15:12.760]  Well, that's a good thing.
[15:12.820 --> 15:17.220]  I mean, it's going to be a good event when it happens in the middle of next month.
[15:17.300 --> 15:20.940]  And, of course, a bunch of us are going to be over there reporting live from there.
[15:20.940 --> 15:22.800]  I think Wednesday...
[15:22.800 --> 15:24.780]  What's the date in August that we'll be doing that?
[15:25.780 --> 15:26.100]  The...
[15:26.100 --> 15:27.260]  You got a calendar there, Mike?
[15:27.420 --> 15:27.920]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[15:28.040 --> 15:29.280]  Keep talking while I look it up.
[15:29.320 --> 15:29.400]  Okay, yeah.
[15:29.420 --> 15:30.280]  He's loading up his phone.
[15:30.760 --> 15:32.140]  Wednesday, the 12th of August.
[15:32.200 --> 15:32.660]  The 12th of August.
[15:32.680 --> 15:36.860]  Although it'll be, I guess, the early morning of the 13th for the people who are there.
[15:36.900 --> 15:37.460]  For us over there.
[15:37.520 --> 15:39.280]  So we might sound a bit tired.
[15:39.440 --> 15:42.300]  But that's, I think, the day before it actually begins.
[15:42.540 --> 15:43.260]  So you'll be over there.
[15:43.340 --> 15:44.060]  I'll be over there.
[15:45.900 --> 15:47.320]  Bernie, you'll be over there.
[15:47.560 --> 15:48.800]  I know Red Hack will be over there.
[15:48.840 --> 15:49.580]  He's not here right now.
[15:49.580 --> 15:55.240]  And Voltaire, you'll be across the street in the other, wherever the zone ends.
[15:55.500 --> 15:58.200]  You know, that'll be, we'll get you in somehow.
[15:58.360 --> 15:58.800]  We'll figure it out.
[15:58.940 --> 15:59.820]  Oh, and Emmanuel.
[16:00.000 --> 16:00.140]  Yes.
[16:00.400 --> 16:02.980]  Red Hack will be volunteering on the first aid team.
[16:03.440 --> 16:04.100]  Oh, no.
[16:04.880 --> 16:05.260]  Yes.
[16:05.480 --> 16:09.600]  So anyone who's going, you can be in good hands with Red Hack.
[16:09.940 --> 16:16.620]  And if you are physically injured, he will, if you're physically injured during his shift in the first aid tent.
[16:16.880 --> 16:17.680]  And he's certified.
[16:17.940 --> 16:21.700]  He's a, he's a, uh, emergency medical technician.
[16:21.720 --> 16:23.820]  He was a medic in the Finnish army.
[16:24.060 --> 16:24.900]  He knows what he's doing.
[16:25.160 --> 16:25.380]  Mm-hmm.
[16:25.500 --> 16:26.360]  So, um...
[16:26.360 --> 16:28.240]  And if you don't believe it, get hurt and see what happens.
[16:28.420 --> 16:28.960]  Yeah, that's right.
[16:28.980 --> 16:31.140]  Make sure to get hurt by Russians, though, because that's his specialty.
[16:31.320 --> 16:31.420]  Yeah.
[16:31.420 --> 16:34.420]  There's gonna be legions of Red Hacked fans, like, running into walls and stuff.
[16:34.520 --> 16:34.700]  Yeah.
[16:34.940 --> 16:35.880]  Well, that happens anyway.
[16:36.540 --> 16:37.220]  Um, okay.
[16:37.320 --> 16:47.960]  Now, on to, uh, my, uh, suggestions for those people that send you things without you wanting them to send you things, such as PR, such as spam, such as, uh, phone calls in the, uh, middle of the evening or whenever.
[16:48.200 --> 16:52.620]  Can I say, uh, only tangentially related, we need to get more hate mail.
[16:52.680 --> 16:53.280]  We don't get enough.
[16:53.640 --> 16:54.240]  Okay, yeah.
[16:54.240 --> 16:58.960]  So people who, who really hate us, OTH at 2600.com, send us an email.
[16:59.040 --> 17:00.260]  Do you think it's possible people don't hate us?
[17:00.260 --> 17:02.300]  Constructive hate or non-constructive hate?
[17:02.460 --> 17:03.660]  Yeah, at this point, we'll weed it out.
[17:03.780 --> 17:07.740]  But it's, uh, it's basically, yeah, we, we, we need more, more hate, I guess, right?
[17:08.220 --> 17:08.620]  Because...
[17:08.620 --> 17:08.920]  Hate mail.
[17:08.920 --> 17:09.950]  Too much of a love fest going on.
[17:09.970 --> 17:11.560]  Not necessarily hate, but hate mail.
[17:11.700 --> 17:11.880]  Uh-huh.
[17:12.220 --> 17:12.450]  Okay.
[17:12.510 --> 17:13.540]  Well, this, here's some hate for you.
[17:13.820 --> 17:27.080]  Uh, when Charles Papin was threatened to burn down the offices of St. Louis broker of extended auto service contracts, he identified specific workers he would target and delivered the threat without provocation, said circuit attorney Jennifer Joyce in a prepared statement released to news organizations,
[17:27.450 --> 17:29.040]  uh, earlier today.
[17:29.040 --> 17:40.260]  Uh, Charles, uh, Papinfus of, um, uh, Faustoria, Ohio, allegedly told a sales representative during a May 18th telephone call that he would burn down the building and kill the employees and their families.
[17:40.510 --> 17:46.530]  He was indicted for making a terrorist threat, a class D felony, and he could be sentenced up to four years in prison if convicted.
[17:46.530 --> 17:48.320]  Now, how'd this all come about?
[17:48.490 --> 18:05.820]  Well, apparently there was a whole big thing going on with this, uh, telemarketing firm that had been, uh, uh, sending him, uh, all kinds of, uh, literature and I think calling him as well, uh, basically pushing, uh, some kind of a, uh, a car deal when he didn't have a car or he didn't have a warranty or something like that.
[18:06.010 --> 18:09.950]  And apparently what happened was he, uh, just got completely fed up.
[18:09.950 --> 18:22.400]  Now, the thing I find amazing about this is that, um, you know, you, you basically get all upset and you say things that admittedly aren't the nicest things to say, but you get charged with a terrorist threat and making a terrorist threat.
[18:22.740 --> 18:32.950]  Now in, you know, I think the statute of limitations is gone, but I had MCI calling me once every half hour, like throughout an entire week, they just would not stop.
[18:33.100 --> 18:37.280]  And I finally said to them, look, if you call me one more time, I will come over there personally and disembowel you.
[18:37.620 --> 18:39.580]  Now they might not have known what the word...
[18:39.580 --> 18:40.320]  I've said something like that.
[18:40.340 --> 18:41.490]  You know, I have all the time.
[18:41.580 --> 18:47.320]  Well, if you, if you want to get someone's attention, the word disembowel, even if they don't know what it means, it, it sounds serious enough where they better take you seriously.
[18:47.540 --> 18:49.840]  And wouldn't you know, I didn't get a single call after that.
[18:49.970 --> 18:53.950]  Now that could be considered a terroristic threat to disembowel somebody.
[18:54.100 --> 18:56.540]  I would assume it would be pretty terroristic and yeah.
[18:57.030 --> 18:57.180]  Yeah.
[18:57.360 --> 18:59.970]  And, and, uh, it's, um, I wasn't charged.
[19:00.100 --> 19:04.450]  I'm not sure unless somebody actually is making a real threat that they're, they intend to carry through.
[19:04.910 --> 19:10.540]  Uh, do you want to charge somebody with a terrorist threat simply for getting angry and a telemarketer, Rob?
[19:10.680 --> 19:12.530]  And just to drive the point home, they called him.
[19:12.660 --> 19:12.950]  Mm-hmm.
[19:13.200 --> 19:15.280]  They called him and they're upset at what he says to them.
[19:15.340 --> 19:16.470]  I mean, how, how is that?
[19:16.580 --> 19:17.950]  How is he in any way responsible for this?
[19:18.350 --> 19:19.280]  That's home invasion.
[19:19.660 --> 19:21.120]  That's home invasion on their part.
[19:21.260 --> 19:21.320]  Yeah.
[19:21.320 --> 19:22.390]  They basically invaded his home.
[19:22.510 --> 19:24.300]  Well, he, I think he called them.
[19:24.510 --> 19:24.910]  Well, actually, okay.
[19:24.950 --> 19:25.430]  This is what happened.
[19:25.560 --> 19:27.140]  He left them a voicemail.
[19:27.720 --> 19:29.030]  And then they called him back.
[19:29.120 --> 19:30.360]  And I think that's when he uttered the threat.
[19:30.360 --> 19:33.060]  But they still, they still initiated contact when they sent him the junk mail.
[19:33.060 --> 19:33.300]  Right.
[19:33.660 --> 19:36.360]  And, uh, you know, I, I really don't see how he could be.
[19:37.140 --> 19:37.620]  Uh-huh.
[19:38.010 --> 19:38.930]  Maybe we can extrapolate.
[19:39.140 --> 19:39.280]  How could this be a terrorist threat?
[19:39.340 --> 19:47.430]  But if someone comes to your house, if you want to carry the analogy a little further, and you shoot them where they stand, that doesn't make it any more right than if you went to their house and did it.
[19:47.470 --> 19:48.470]  Unless I do have a witness.
[19:48.970 --> 19:50.200]  Oh, oh, you are going to...
[19:50.200 --> 19:50.660]  Easy.
[19:50.910 --> 19:52.700]  Voltaire, we want to give out your email address now.
[19:52.840 --> 19:55.040]  Don't send OTH mail for that comment.
[19:55.180 --> 19:55.840]  That's, uh...
[19:55.840 --> 20:00.430]  In Florida, actually, it is, is kind of legal to do that, but not in New York.
[20:00.430 --> 20:05.430]  Why don't we, why don't we just take other, why don't we just extrapolate other tactics that are completely inappropriate?
[20:05.450 --> 20:10.180]  Like, why shouldn't he take out a restraining order on this company for calling him routinely?
[20:10.410 --> 20:11.140]  Because it wouldn't work.
[20:11.740 --> 20:12.510]  Yeah, it wouldn't work.
[20:12.540 --> 20:15.040]  But why, how the terrorist threats work?
[20:15.240 --> 20:15.300]  These companies, they don't go away.
[20:15.300 --> 20:26.540]  You know, someone, someone wrote in, uh, not too long ago saying that, um, they, they tried to get a company to stop calling them, a company that they had a credit card with, and they said, well, if, if we stop calling you, then we won't even be able to call you to tell you that your card has been stolen,
[20:26.540 --> 20:27.840]  which is nonsense.
[20:27.840 --> 20:31.660]  It's a complete lie, but it's the kind of thing that they do to, to, uh, ensure that they can keep calling you.
[20:31.800 --> 20:35.030]  So the person felt like he had to accept all their telemarketing nonsense.
[20:35.680 --> 20:38.340]  And these are the, uh, these are the tactics they use.
[20:38.720 --> 20:39.820]  And it's, it's, yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[20:40.340 --> 20:45.220]  These, uh, these automobile extended warranty, uh, companies are notorious.
[20:45.490 --> 20:48.080]  There's, there's a handful of them and they've all, they're all scammers.
[20:48.080 --> 20:58.950]  They try to convince people that, that their car warranty is, their factory warranty is expired and, uh, and you buy another one or you, or you can, you know, your car could, all kinds of dire things could happen to you if you don't buy it.
[20:59.340 --> 21:02.720]  Uh, a close relative of mine was suckered in by one of these, uh, these companies.
[21:02.930 --> 21:04.910]  But they really make people angry.
[21:05.100 --> 21:06.800]  Telemarketers in general make people angry.
[21:06.800 --> 21:14.360]  So, uh, if this guy went to a jury trial, you know, it seems unlikely that a jury would find him guilty for saying these things in anger.
[21:14.490 --> 21:16.950]  But I'm sure his lawyer is going to say, don't chance it.
[21:17.280 --> 21:19.160]  Plead out to something less.
[21:19.470 --> 21:22.680]  But I think there's one way the public can get even on it.
[21:22.740 --> 21:23.120]  What's that?
[21:23.390 --> 21:31.010]  And that is, um, uh, I'm sure that the, uh, the indictment or the, the criminal charge that the police affidavit is public record.
[21:31.280 --> 21:33.430]  Um, and someone could, uh, research this.
[21:33.430 --> 21:36.890]  So you can just, you can just do a web search for this information on this guy.
[21:37.260 --> 21:40.450]  And, uh, this case was all over the news the past few days.
[21:40.950 --> 21:57.180]  Uh, get a copy of the, uh, uh, of the, the police complaint, which is going to have the name of the complainant, the telemarketer, the individual who actually called the police and filed charges against this guy just to get even for, for a tit-for-tat thing.
[21:57.780 --> 22:01.140]  Um, and the address of the place is going to be in the complaint.
[22:01.140 --> 22:08.500]  So I think it should be publicly distributed, the address, the physical address of this telemarketer, the name of the individual who filed the complaint.
[22:08.760 --> 22:14.760]  And I think, uh, I think, uh, sort of mob justice might take place if this information was widely distributed.
[22:15.770 --> 22:16.480]  Mob justice.
[22:16.620 --> 22:18.020]  Yeah, you're calling for mob justice here.
[22:18.100 --> 22:18.540]  Is that what you're saying?
[22:18.890 --> 22:19.600]  Torches and pitchforks?
[22:19.640 --> 22:20.140]  I'm not calling for it.
[22:20.220 --> 22:21.180]  I'm just saying it could happen.
[22:21.410 --> 22:23.700]  We already called for an urban riot earlier in the show.
[22:23.910 --> 22:25.740]  Did he just get a terrorist act on the air?
[22:25.950 --> 22:27.040]  And insulted a religious group?
[22:27.180 --> 22:27.930]  I mean, come on, guys.
[22:27.930 --> 22:28.390]  That's me.
[22:28.780 --> 22:32.410]  Let's pick ourselves up off the floor here and try to regain some dignity.
[22:33.040 --> 22:34.980]  Uh, okay, here, here's something that'll cheer us up a little bit.
[22:35.080 --> 22:41.700]  It would seem that in Pakistan, there's nothing you need to watch out for more than making a joke about the president, President Zadari, by SMS.
[22:42.000 --> 22:46.220]  If you do this, you might get 14 years in jail for making an SMS joke.
[22:46.220 --> 22:56.340]  Yeah, if you mistakenly or just for fun, share with a friend one of the hundreds of derogatory jokes about the leader floating around electronically, you could get one of these sentences.
[22:56.520 --> 22:56.980]  For example?
[22:57.430 --> 22:58.640]  Uh, okay, hold on, hold on.
[22:58.680 --> 22:59.580]  I've got them right here.
[22:59.980 --> 23:03.280]  Oh, in addition, also, you could face having your property seized.
[23:03.780 --> 23:07.960]  Um, the government could seek Interpol assistance in deporting foreign offenders.
[23:07.960 --> 23:10.720]  I'm not sure what they're going to do to you if you're not in that country to start with.
[23:11.410 --> 23:20.800]  Now, uh, surrounded by controversy throughout his political career, uh, Zadari has been a subject of harsh public criticism since he was elected as president by the national parliament a year ago.
[23:20.980 --> 23:33.500]  Now, many jokes hint that he still acts as Mr. 10%, which is a label referring to the percentage he would allegedly receive in kickbacks in the 1990s, uh, during the two terms as prime minister spent by his assassinated wife, Benazir Bhutto.
[23:33.660 --> 23:34.260]  That's right, he's a husband.
[23:34.260 --> 23:37.220]  All right, this is all fascinating, but I want to hear one of the jokes.
[23:37.220 --> 23:38.120]  Okay, okay, here it comes.
[23:38.700 --> 23:41.910]  Um, one such joke portrays a school for demons at roll call.
[23:42.240 --> 23:45.560]  All the demons report for class except one named Zadari.
[23:45.820 --> 23:51.520]  When the demon teacher asks where Zadari is, a student replies that he has gone to rob Pakistan.
[23:53.280 --> 23:54.840]  Wait, this is all in one SMS?
[23:55.080 --> 23:56.450]  Yeah, that's a really long SMS.
[23:56.800 --> 23:59.160]  Well, maybe they can say it faster in their language.
[23:59.260 --> 23:59.580]  I don't know.
[23:59.930 --> 24:00.700]  Here's another joke.
[24:00.860 --> 24:01.520]  This might work better.
[24:02.040 --> 24:07.780]  Uh, another joke claims that the words that most frighten Zadari are the slogan, Bhutto is still alive.
[24:08.020 --> 24:08.580]  Ooh.
[24:09.180 --> 24:09.700]  They went there.
[24:09.740 --> 24:10.120]  That's nasty.
[24:10.340 --> 24:19.520]  It's a mantra his party workers chant often in public meetings, but it can be interpreted to mean it is unfortunate for the nation that Bhutto died and Zadari became president.
[24:19.520 --> 24:34.430]  Now, most of the hundreds of jokes shared by 50 million SMS users of about 80 million mobile phone customers seem innocuous, but can have disastrous political implications for Zadari, who according to some recent surveys is already highly unpopular among the public.
[24:34.580 --> 24:38.740]  Jokes in Pakistani political culture are a very effective way to delegitimize rulers.
[24:38.950 --> 24:44.180]  Historically, these have been used by the weak and helpless against the powerful, say, analysts.
[24:45.180 --> 24:50.980]  Uh, so, uh, yeah, I guess they're, they're reacting, uh, rather harshly against such, uh, such humor.
[24:51.260 --> 25:01.460]  So, uh, something to, uh, something to keep in mind if you're thinking of, uh, so, so if I were to say something like two presidents Adaris walk into a bar, um, you'd be on thin ice, Rob, you'd be really, uh, yeah.
[25:01.800 --> 25:03.450]  And I wouldn't try that in Pakistan.
[25:04.220 --> 25:07.520]  Um, but yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's very strange.
[25:07.520 --> 25:13.360]  Now, um, 14 years for sending an indecent SMS is what the law currently, uh, says.
[25:13.700 --> 25:14.720]  What about an obscene SMS?
[25:14.960 --> 25:17.140]  You know, I don't even think you could afford that.
[25:18.370 --> 25:18.720]  Wow.
[25:18.950 --> 25:19.140]  Okay.
[25:19.300 --> 25:21.320]  That's, uh, that's a bit of fun out of Pakistan there.
[25:21.620 --> 25:25.500]  Now, back to the, uh, well, here, here's something else that's a bit harsh.
[25:25.500 --> 25:27.040]  Maybe we should talk about this.
[25:27.100 --> 25:32.220]  How about an ATM that, uh, sprays you with pepper spray if you do something bad to it?
[25:32.720 --> 25:39.840]  Yeah, a bank has fitted 11 of its ATMs across the Cape Peninsula with pepper spray to deter criminals from tampering with them.
[25:40.080 --> 25:40.580]  Cape Cod?
[25:40.820 --> 25:43.200]  Uh, no, this is, this is South Africa, as I recall.
[25:43.320 --> 25:43.910]  Is this, yeah, you're right.
[25:43.910 --> 25:44.620]  This is South Africa.
[25:45.300 --> 25:47.120]  Um, ABSA is the name of the bank there.
[25:47.540 --> 25:52.840]  Um, they say they have introduced a new technology to help prevent ATM bombings and card skimming.
[25:53.390 --> 25:56.080]  Uh, what happens if you bomb an ATM that has pepper spray in it?
[25:56.180 --> 25:56.520]  That's...
[25:56.520 --> 25:57.820]  That's no fun at all.
[25:58.000 --> 26:01.660]  Uh, and card skimming after several ATMs around the country were blown up last year.
[26:01.660 --> 26:08.430]  Um, the pepper spray fitted in an ATM in a fish hook, however, was accidentally emitted during a routine maintenance inspection.
[26:08.860 --> 26:13.240]  And, uh, three people had to be treated after inhaling a cloud of, uh, of pepper spray.
[26:13.660 --> 26:23.540]  Now the cameras are programmed to determine whether anyone may be tampering with the slots, which is what criminals normally tamper with when they're inserting a bombing device or a card skimming device.
[26:23.620 --> 26:28.300]  But, you know, sometimes I tamper with, um, with the, uh, the little, uh, device there.
[26:28.480 --> 26:30.820]  But the reason being, I'm not trying to steal money or anything like that.
[26:30.820 --> 26:33.410]  I'm trying to demonstrate to people how easy it is to shut down ATMs.
[26:33.580 --> 26:39.700]  Because what you, what you do is the ATMs that suck in cards, all you have to do is simply hold the card and refuse to allow it to get sucked in.
[26:39.890 --> 26:42.020]  You do that for maybe 30, 40 seconds.
[26:42.160 --> 26:47.640]  Many times the ATM will simply turn off and it, it, it reboots takes about two or three minutes.
[26:48.200 --> 26:53.660]  Now I wonder if I try that in South Africa, am I going to get pepper sprayed as, as, as a thank you for showing that.
[26:53.980 --> 26:54.260]  All right.
[26:54.260 --> 26:54.600]  You're here.
[26:54.910 --> 26:55.140]  Welcome.
[26:55.140 --> 26:55.480]  Hello.
[26:55.760 --> 26:56.060]  How you doing?
[26:56.240 --> 26:59.320]  Uh, all I want to know is what happens when someone puts tape over the camera?
[27:00.430 --> 27:01.540]  Uh, that's, well, that's a good question.
[27:01.780 --> 27:02.160]  I don't know.
[27:02.660 --> 27:06.950]  Or, they're assuming that no one actually, you know, say, put a mask on if they want to tamper with one of these?
[27:07.180 --> 27:07.450]  Uh-huh.
[27:08.000 --> 27:13.300]  Well, I mean, is it something that, uh, that a human, um, activates by, by looking at the actual video?
[27:13.300 --> 27:15.860]  Or is it something that, uh, the machine knows to do?
[27:15.860 --> 27:20.000]  So if you're going to bomb an ATM, presumably you don't stick around while the bomb explodes, yeah?
[27:20.300 --> 27:21.120]  Well, that makes sense.
[27:21.140 --> 27:24.240]  But you'd have to, you'd have to install the bomb and I think that's where they get you.
[27:24.410 --> 27:24.460]  Ah.
[27:24.760 --> 27:24.930]  Yeah.
[27:26.080 --> 27:26.930]  Um, pepper spray.
[27:27.000 --> 27:27.460]  Can you imagine that?
[27:27.540 --> 27:36.700]  Pepper spray in all kinds of, um, devices like pay phones and ATMs and maybe the parts of car, your car you're not supposed to touch and, and maintain on your own.
[27:37.160 --> 27:41.340]  Just ways of, uh, ways of enforcing, uh, various restrictions.
[27:42.180 --> 27:42.580]  Okay.
[27:43.220 --> 27:45.720]  Uh, this story actually, uh, came out last week.
[27:45.860 --> 27:51.910]  But apparently New York City is spending nearly a million dollars on typewriters for policemen.
[27:52.540 --> 27:52.910]  Yeah.
[27:52.950 --> 27:54.860]  How many typewriters do you get for a million dollars?
[27:55.260 --> 27:56.980]  You know, uh, that's, um...
[27:56.980 --> 27:57.410]  This is the thing.
[27:57.500 --> 27:58.430]  None of the articles say.
[27:58.560 --> 28:07.060]  Well, they say thousands of new manual and electric typewriters over the next three years is what they're going to be buying from a company in New Jersey known as Swintec.
[28:08.020 --> 28:10.500]  Swintec, if you want to get a manual.
[28:10.620 --> 28:12.280]  Who has a manual typewriter anymore?
[28:12.280 --> 28:13.560]  I'd like to even know where to get one of those.
[28:13.600 --> 28:13.960]  My grandmother.
[28:14.120 --> 28:14.740]  Well, yeah, of course.
[28:14.740 --> 28:16.930]  Everyone's grandmother has one, but nobody can buy a new one.
[28:17.120 --> 28:19.960]  I found a Cyrillic language one in my local Salvation Army if anybody wants it.
[28:19.960 --> 28:20.430]  Really?
[28:20.560 --> 28:20.700]  Yeah.
[28:20.800 --> 28:21.800]  What is it going for, just out of curiosity?
[28:22.040 --> 28:22.450]  Um, you know what?
[28:22.460 --> 28:22.960]  I didn't check.
[28:23.140 --> 28:23.260]  Yeah.
[28:24.040 --> 28:27.060]  Well, my grandmother had one that dated back to the early 1900s.
[28:27.140 --> 28:29.600]  And you'd think that would be worth a fortune, but it's worth like ten dollars.
[28:30.140 --> 28:30.520]  You know?
[28:31.460 --> 28:32.780]  It looks really cool, too.
[28:32.910 --> 28:33.890]  Really old.
[28:34.160 --> 28:37.000]  But, uh, they're apparently easy to find.
[28:37.080 --> 28:37.980]  But anyway, the point is...
[28:37.980 --> 28:40.520]  Apparently the police department will pay a thousand bucks for a typewriter.
[28:40.520 --> 28:41.140]  Yeah.
[28:41.520 --> 28:48.910]  Well, uh, the, the, uh, the contract was $982,269, uh, purchasing thousands of, uh, of these typewriters.
[28:49.450 --> 28:51.410]  Some of these typewriters, you know how much they go for each?
[28:52.800 --> 28:54.480]  $649 for a typewriter.
[28:55.140 --> 29:05.480]  Last month, the city signed a $99,570 deal with AFAX Business Machines in Manhattan for the maintenance of its existing Brother Panasonic and IBM Selectric typewriters.
[29:05.860 --> 29:08.240]  I haven't even said IBM Selectric in over a decade.
[29:08.410 --> 29:11.720]  So that's, uh, shows you how in tune with the typewriter culture I am.
[29:12.720 --> 29:13.160]  Uh...
[29:13.160 --> 29:13.700]  Well, that's...
[29:13.700 --> 29:20.240]  You know, what this says to me is that somewhere, somebody is still printing out forms that they think they need a typewriter to fill in.
[29:20.240 --> 29:25.720]  Like, there's, there's some other step where either they're printing out stuff from a computer and then they're typing that in, which is bizarre.
[29:25.860 --> 29:29.220]  Well, they say most of the NYPD's arrest report forms are computerized.
[29:29.320 --> 29:35.120]  But cops still use typewriters to fill out property and evidence vouchers, which are printed on carbon paper forms.
[29:35.360 --> 29:38.840]  There are typewriters in every police precinct, including one in every detective squad.
[29:39.410 --> 29:41.480]  Uh, it's, uh, it's insane.
[29:41.600 --> 29:49.780]  And when they run out of ribbon, uh, they say this is a scene straight out of Barney Miller where they have to search all over the place for, for a, uh, an extra typewriter ribbon.
[29:49.780 --> 29:52.680]  They have to sneak around the rest of the precinct to, to, to steal one from someplace.
[29:53.180 --> 29:53.980]  It's really incredible.
[29:54.080 --> 29:54.260]  Dot Red.
[29:54.390 --> 30:00.580]  I think it's ironic that during this whole budget crisis time period that they're investing so much money in an outdated technology.
[30:01.060 --> 30:01.410]  Yeah.
[30:01.680 --> 30:02.300]  Cops, you mean.
[30:02.580 --> 30:02.980]  Yeah.
[30:03.240 --> 30:03.340]  Yeah.
[30:03.580 --> 30:03.760]  Oh.
[30:05.200 --> 30:12.000]  I have to say, I've, I've had only limited dealings with police department, but the dealings I had, I would have wished for a typewriter.
[30:12.180 --> 30:14.720]  I get all these handwritten forms that are completely illegible.
[30:14.720 --> 30:17.500]  Oh, you're, you must be in the precinct that didn't yet get the typewriters.
[30:17.720 --> 30:18.340]  I must be.
[30:19.000 --> 30:23.720]  There's still a cuneiform, um, precinct someplace where they're actually carving things into stone, as I recall.
[30:23.930 --> 30:27.600]  That would be good because the carving, you could take it to someone and they could actually read it.
[30:28.330 --> 30:28.680]  That's...
[30:28.680 --> 30:30.120]  It would be a huge step up.
[30:30.390 --> 30:31.160]  It's, it's great.
[30:31.260 --> 30:31.560]  It's amazing.
[30:31.640 --> 30:34.840]  I'd like to know if other police precincts around the country deal with similar issues.
[30:35.870 --> 30:36.860]  Um, okay.
[30:36.860 --> 30:37.240]  You know what?
[30:37.320 --> 30:40.640]  A bit of history this week, uh, last Saturday, we talked about this last week.
[30:40.740 --> 30:42.080]  We, we had, uh, Club Matade.
[30:42.240 --> 30:43.140]  Did I say it right this time, Mike?
[30:43.500 --> 30:43.950]  Yeah, sure.
[30:44.080 --> 30:45.890]  It basically, you don't care anymore, do you?
[30:46.060 --> 30:58.340]  It basically was, uh, the, the, the first and only so far time that we've, uh, we've actually distributed this, uh, crazy German, uh, caffeinated beverage that we somehow wound up importing, uh, to people all around the metropolitan area.
[30:58.430 --> 31:02.430]  Volta and I, we rode around the 2600 van for about 12 hours on Saturday.
[31:02.430 --> 31:02.500]  Okay.
[31:03.280 --> 31:04.840]  And boy, were we tired at the end of it.
[31:05.100 --> 31:10.500]  Uh, but, uh, we made a whole bunch of deliveries through Nassau, Suffolk, Queens, Brooklyn, and Manhattan.
[31:11.040 --> 31:12.820]  And everybody was very happy to see us.
[31:13.060 --> 31:17.220]  It was great to meet listeners and readers and, and hope attendees and people like that.
[31:17.810 --> 31:21.910]  And, uh, climb all those stairs with cases of, uh, of, uh, of bottles.
[31:22.160 --> 31:22.950]  Well, that was your job.
[31:23.060 --> 31:23.760]  That was my job.
[31:23.890 --> 31:23.980]  Yeah.
[31:24.100 --> 31:25.060]  You know, it felt good though.
[31:25.120 --> 31:30.840]  It felt good to actually be doing something kind of manual and, and just, uh, driving around and, and being a delivery person.
[31:30.840 --> 31:36.100]  It felt, it's good to do these things occasionally, but, uh, I don't know if I want to do it again anytime soon.
[31:36.980 --> 31:41.080]  But, uh, the thing we're trying to work out now, and I, we, we, we get a lot of mail about this.
[31:41.220 --> 31:46.220]  People are interested in, uh, in getting these things delivered to them, cases of, uh, of bottled beverages.
[31:46.390 --> 31:48.540]  We can't quite figure out how to do it without them breaking.
[31:49.100 --> 31:51.160]  We need to be able to pack these things somehow.
[31:51.460 --> 31:53.600]  It's, uh, the case is 20 bottles, 20 glass bottles.
[31:53.740 --> 31:59.100]  We have to pack it so that doesn't, you know, the UPS guy can throw it or something and it won't smash into a zillion pieces.
[31:59.100 --> 32:00.200]  Do you know how to do that?
[32:00.460 --> 32:02.260]  Uh, I've had some experience with that.
[32:02.430 --> 32:02.560]  Remember my last job?
[32:02.560 --> 32:03.820]  You've had experience with breaking bottles?
[32:04.120 --> 32:04.660]  No, remember?
[32:04.930 --> 32:05.520]  Oh, that's right.
[32:05.620 --> 32:07.220]  You worked in a, you worked in a wine store.
[32:07.450 --> 32:08.180]  A lot of glass things, yes.
[32:08.180 --> 32:08.500]  Yeah.
[32:08.740 --> 32:09.720]  Well, we should talk after the show.
[32:09.840 --> 32:12.460]  Maybe, uh, maybe you can hook us up with a special box or something.
[32:13.060 --> 32:14.240]  Yes, there's a very special.
[32:14.340 --> 32:15.320]  Well, did you ever break...
[32:15.320 --> 32:16.140]  It costs a million dollars, actually.
[32:16.140 --> 32:17.660]  Did you ever break, uh, a case?
[32:17.860 --> 32:18.040]  No.
[32:18.520 --> 32:19.740]  Did you ever see somebody break a case?
[32:20.040 --> 32:20.360]  Yes.
[32:20.520 --> 32:22.000]  Okay, so it is possible to break a case.
[32:29.230 --> 32:30.540]  Uh, clubmata.us.
[32:30.720 --> 32:31.430]  And how do you spell that?
[32:31.460 --> 32:34.460]  C-L-U-B hyphen M-A-T-E dot U-S.
[32:34.620 --> 32:34.890]  Okay.
[32:35.480 --> 32:39.410]  And of course, those of you going to horror, I'm sure you'll see lots of it there.
[32:39.410 --> 32:44.460]  I think Aldert mentioned that they ordered 4, um, 4,800 bottles, which would be...
[32:44.460 --> 32:45.260]  It doesn't seem like enough.
[32:45.410 --> 32:46.140]  That's six pallets.
[32:46.520 --> 32:46.960]  It's not enough.
[32:47.040 --> 32:47.200]  Yeah.
[32:47.640 --> 32:52.600]  Well, if you have any suggestions for how to pack it, you can email us at O-T-H at 2600.com.
[32:52.700 --> 32:52.950]  Yes.
[32:53.340 --> 32:53.840]  Uh, go ahead, Bernie.
[32:54.310 --> 32:59.280]  Uh, I'm on the hackers on a plane mailing list, because I'll be on the hackers...
[32:59.280 --> 33:02.930]  I'll be on the plane full of hackers, uh, heading to HAR and PlumberCon.
[33:02.930 --> 33:13.930]  And, uh, there was a thread going on today about, uh, not just Club Mate, but, uh, uh, our friend, uh, Johannes from Monochrome was saying that, uh, there's a similar beverage...
[33:14.520 --> 33:14.930]  There's a...
[33:14.930 --> 33:15.700]  There's a...
[33:15.700 --> 33:22.930]  When he was in the U.S., he found a beverage that, uh, he could not get anywhere in Europe, and that is something called root beer.
[33:23.760 --> 33:25.220]  They just don't have it over there.
[33:25.430 --> 33:25.450]  Uh-huh.
[33:25.620 --> 33:27.480]  You mean nobody makes root beer over there?
[33:27.540 --> 33:27.890]  No.
[33:28.200 --> 33:29.300]  That's what he was saying.
[33:29.300 --> 33:38.450]  I have an uncle, uh, who, who grew up in America, but has lived in Denmark for, I don't know, 30 years at least, and, and has been making this complaint for all 30 of those years.
[33:38.580 --> 33:39.500]  This, this is not news.
[33:39.760 --> 33:42.640]  Well, it is news, because, uh, this is something we could get our hands in as well.
[33:42.660 --> 33:45.980]  How hard is it to simply bring root beer over from the United States to Europe?
[33:46.320 --> 33:49.060]  Yeah, and as hackers, it's easy for us to get root access.
[33:49.430 --> 33:50.300]  Oh, very good.
[33:50.430 --> 33:51.680]  How long have you been waiting to use that line?
[33:51.780 --> 33:52.580]  Oh, my God.
[33:53.180 --> 33:53.390]  Jeez.
[33:54.000 --> 33:54.620]  Well played.
[33:54.860 --> 33:55.220]  All right.
[33:55.340 --> 33:58.100]  There'll be no further show, because everyone's heads are on the table.
[33:59.320 --> 34:06.340]  Okay, um, let's, uh, let's switch gears here and talk about, uh, some other radio stations, uh, for a moment.
[34:06.620 --> 34:10.640]  You know, um, this is an interesting story that I just, uh, stumbled upon today, actually.
[34:10.640 --> 34:19.460]  A day after Obama administration official Susan Crawford said the administration recognized the importance of broadcasting and a particular radio, uh, to minority audiences.
[34:19.840 --> 34:29.220]  Clear Channel, our good friends over at Clear Channel, announced it was donating several AM radio stations to a project that will train future minority and women owners.
[34:29.220 --> 34:32.360]  Yeah, and an announcement made yesterday in Washington, D.C.
[34:32.460 --> 34:47.220]  at the Minority Media and Telecommunications Council, the company said it was donating the stations to MMTC and partnering with it on the MMTC, uh, C Clear Channel, MMT, oh, I'm sorry, MMTC Clear Channel Ownership Diversity Initiative.
[34:47.220 --> 35:00.660]  Uh, Clear Channel will donate K-Y-H-N in Fort Smith, Arkansas, W-T-F-X, Winchester, Virginia, K-M-F-X, Rochester, Minnesota, and W-H-J-A in Laurel, Missouri, to the project.
[35:01.160 --> 35:15.410]  Now, the National Association of Broadcasters Education Foundation's Broadcast Leadership Training Program, these people really are crazy with the acronyms, uh, they will then team up with the MMTC to use the stations as a training facility for future station operators.
[35:15.410 --> 35:23.540]  So that's, uh, interesting, uh, you know, I think Clear Channel owns so many stations that they could probably afford to donate at least one per city.
[35:23.820 --> 35:27.620]  Not to mention their outdoor advertising, um, business, which is also tremendous.
[35:27.840 --> 35:36.180]  And they'd still make a huge profit, and maybe, maybe then people could say, okay, it's alright for you to own every single commercial station in a particular city if you give one to the community, you know?
[35:36.180 --> 35:38.520]  Nice try, Clear Channel, you're still an evil behemoth.
[35:38.580 --> 35:41.120]  Yeah, okay, we can say that privately, but just not, you know...
[35:41.120 --> 35:41.200]  No?
[35:41.320 --> 35:43.410]  Not in public, or we'd be prosecuted, yeah.
[35:43.800 --> 35:45.240]  Uh, then there's this other...
[35:45.240 --> 35:46.720]  What if we send a joke about it by SMS?
[35:46.930 --> 35:47.410]  By SMS?
[35:47.790 --> 35:48.640]  Uh, yeah, well, I don't know.
[35:48.830 --> 35:50.500]  Maybe Pakistani authorities would have something to say.
[35:50.790 --> 35:53.930]  Uh, this other station in New York, known as Pulse, you guys hear about this?
[35:53.980 --> 35:55.040]  We talked about it a couple of times.
[35:55.160 --> 36:03.720]  They're actually not a radio station, they're a television station, low-power television in Queens, Channel 6, but they, the audio broadcast at 87.7.
[36:04.430 --> 36:20.240]  And, uh, they're able to have commercials because of this, even though they're in the non-commercial part of the, uh, of the dial, and their signal gets out to a huge amount of, um, of, uh, of acreage, like all five boroughs, and I think, uh, well onto Long Island and into Westchester.
[36:20.720 --> 36:27.290]  However, they're appealing for donations from listeners, because they're, uh, apparently running out of money even though they are commercial.
[36:27.890 --> 36:33.830]  And, uh, it's just incredible that, that commercial stations are now asking listeners to help finance them.
[36:34.120 --> 36:35.700]  Isn't Air America doing the same thing?
[36:35.870 --> 36:37.480]  I think Air America was doing the same thing.
[36:37.680 --> 36:37.910]  Yeah.
[36:37.910 --> 36:38.930]  Is Air America America commercial?
[36:39.040 --> 36:39.850]  Yeah, very commercial.
[36:39.980 --> 36:40.120]  Absolutely.
[36:40.500 --> 36:41.200]  Like a BAI wannabe.
[36:41.660 --> 36:45.870]  Pretty much, except we don't have commercials, and when we ask for money, it's because we have no other source of it.
[36:46.060 --> 36:48.580]  But I just, I just found that to be, uh, rather disturbing.
[36:48.830 --> 36:54.330]  How does this compare to something like basic cable TV, where you're paying for access to the channels, but you're also watching commercials?
[36:54.580 --> 36:54.770]  Mm-hmm.
[36:54.770 --> 36:56.460]  Which you didn't used to do at the beginning.
[36:56.720 --> 36:56.830]  Right.
[36:56.830 --> 36:59.390]  You know, when cable TV first came out, there were, there were no commercials.
[36:59.560 --> 37:00.240]  That was the selling point.
[37:00.430 --> 37:00.790]  And...
[37:00.790 --> 37:01.890]  That's how they suck it in.
[37:01.950 --> 37:03.870]  Yeah, they, they slowly changed the rules.
[37:03.960 --> 37:06.450]  And one day maybe HBO will have commercials as well.
[37:06.640 --> 37:18.000]  But you know, the thing that bothers me, this is something that I think we might have all heard about at some point, was, uh, this radio station that's been a, a staple of New York culture for many, many years, WQXR, the, the classical station at 96.3.
[37:18.680 --> 37:24.740]  Apparently, they now are going to be sold because the New York Times can't figure out how to make a profit by selling newspapers.
[37:24.960 --> 37:27.270]  Now, I don't know if the radio station was doing badly.
[37:27.270 --> 37:28.000]  I don't think they were.
[37:28.140 --> 37:28.980]  They're a commercial station.
[37:28.980 --> 37:30.140]  They have classical music.
[37:30.290 --> 37:40.810]  And what they're doing, there's this complicated swap, where basically a Spanish station will move into 96.3 from a position down on the dial at 105.9.
[37:41.910 --> 37:51.930]  WNYC, the public radio station here in New York, is going to take over WQXR for a mere $10 million and switch it over to 105.9 FM.
[37:52.410 --> 37:56.850]  An FM license in New York City for $10 million is a steal.
[37:57.000 --> 38:04.870]  But there is a problem with this because what they're doing is they're moving to a part on the dial, a frequency on the dial that does not have nearly the same coverage area.
[38:06.000 --> 38:13.930]  Basically, I don't think you can get this beyond western NASA, whereas you can get into mid-Suffolk on 96.3.
[38:14.450 --> 38:21.700]  And what they're doing is they're turning the station into another public radio station, which means another station asking for money all the time, like we do.
[38:21.950 --> 38:29.100]  So it's basically the loss of, I think, a real, I guess, tradition in New York.
[38:29.120 --> 38:35.980]  And I think it's a bad deal for people who like classical music in this city because they're not getting as good a signal by any stretch of the imagination.
[38:36.520 --> 38:43.520]  On Long Island, for instance, you can already get another station at that frequency from Connecticut, and there's a super powerful station right next to it.
[38:44.280 --> 38:48.160]  So it might work for people on Manhattan, but not much beyond that.
[38:48.200 --> 38:51.850]  And I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere, so I just wanted to make sure people are aware of that.
[38:51.930 --> 38:52.180]  Voltaire?
[38:53.350 --> 38:53.980]  Change your mind.
[38:54.060 --> 38:54.180]  Okay.
[38:54.390 --> 38:54.560]  Yeah.
[38:56.240 --> 39:01.410]  It seems to me that there's sort of a lot of struggle for broadcasters to find new revenue sources.
[39:02.260 --> 39:02.960]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[39:03.040 --> 39:10.240]  I'm thinking of the music industry again, where Sony and various other people are coming up with a music first campaign to try to convince people to pay to play music on the radio.
[39:10.410 --> 39:11.220]  That's the other way around.
[39:11.350 --> 39:13.120]  But everybody, I mean, like, same thing with the New York Times.
[39:13.310 --> 39:19.960]  Everybody is trying to figure out how to make a new business model work, and nobody's really finding an ad model that works for them, I think.
[39:20.500 --> 39:21.160]  Yeah, yeah.
[39:21.410 --> 39:24.620]  I mean, I just think it's sad that something that, you know, is valuable.
[39:24.770 --> 39:25.870]  I mean, I grew up on this radio station.
[39:26.000 --> 39:27.810]  I know, Voltaire, you said you grew up on this radio station as well.
[39:27.810 --> 39:35.350]  Well, it's something that seems to be working, but because the newspaper business is floundering, they're giving...
[39:35.350 --> 39:40.040]  It's like when WNYC TV was given up on New York City because they had budget crisis.
[39:40.220 --> 39:41.950]  They had a budget crisis a number of years ago.
[39:42.020 --> 39:48.290]  And now, of course, it's just a religious or advertising station, and they've lost something valuable that was fairly unique.
[39:48.790 --> 39:53.850]  And every time this happens, you don't see a benefit, and you lose something that's irreplaceable.
[39:54.140 --> 39:59.180]  So hopefully cooler heads will prevail, and maybe they'll rethink this, but somehow I don't think that's going to happen.
[40:02.080 --> 40:03.200]  Okay, let's see what else.
[40:03.290 --> 40:07.560]  We have another letter from a listener, and our phone number, 212-209-2900.
[40:07.700 --> 40:10.180]  People want to call in and give us their opinion on various things.
[40:10.950 --> 40:13.960]  Dear Off The Hook, I didn't really get into hacking until three years ago.
[40:14.450 --> 40:20.450]  Upon learning about the hacking heritage and just what has happened in the past in regard to the hacking scene, it just seems as if we are in a rut.
[40:20.790 --> 40:26.020]  I hear these amazing stories from previous years, and I think to myself, there's nothing like that that happens today.
[40:26.390 --> 40:27.580]  What do you guys think about this?
[40:27.580 --> 40:31.620]  Do you think I'm wrong and that there are amazing things happening left and right in the hacker community?
[40:31.890 --> 40:32.660]  Signed, Peter.
[40:33.180 --> 40:33.980]  What do you guys think?
[40:34.370 --> 40:35.640]  Have we passed our prime?
[40:35.770 --> 40:35.950]  Go ahead.
[40:36.120 --> 40:41.680]  I think there's ups and downs in pretty much any part of life and the world.
[40:41.850 --> 40:46.270]  So we may not be in the most active time right now, but it doesn't mean it won't happen again.
[40:46.500 --> 40:46.740]  Mm-hmm.
[40:46.910 --> 40:50.120]  Well, what do you think it takes to be in an active time to start with?
[40:50.140 --> 40:51.100]  I'm not defining that.
[40:51.100 --> 40:51.540]  Yeah.
[40:51.980 --> 40:58.410]  I mean, I think it's all... there are people living a different life right now who say, wow, this is a very active time because I'm learning a lot.
[40:58.500 --> 40:58.960]  I'm doing a lot.
[40:59.040 --> 40:59.520]  I'm having fun.
[40:59.680 --> 41:01.120]  I'm experimenting with things.
[41:01.500 --> 41:07.140]  And yeah, you know, what you described in the past, it's not going to happen again, not in that way because that's the past and it's been described.
[41:07.450 --> 41:13.680]  But what's happening now will be described in the future, and then people in the future will say, hey, nothing like that is happening now.
[41:13.680 --> 41:14.960]  It's the same thing.
[41:15.080 --> 41:19.270]  We see this in music all the time where people say, you know what, music's over, everything's been done.
[41:19.450 --> 41:24.460]  But obviously, people are constantly coming up with new inventions, new ideas, new ways of playing with things.
[41:24.600 --> 41:26.790]  Yeah, it's like any other form of nostalgia.
[41:26.910 --> 41:33.410]  The memory sort of cheats and the major milestones become more prominent.
[41:33.410 --> 41:38.680]  And you look back and you remember the cool stuff, you remember the memorable stuff, you don't remember the drudgery that you're facing today.
[41:38.890 --> 41:41.410]  And so it all sort of evens out, I think.
[41:41.410 --> 41:43.430]  Yeah, time makes the memory grow fonder.
[41:44.340 --> 41:47.060]  Well, yeah, I suppose that's one way of looking at it.
[41:48.360 --> 41:55.080]  But, yeah, hang in there, you know, and go to some hacker events, go to some 2600 meetings, you'll meet people, you'll learn things, read some books.
[41:56.390 --> 41:57.620]  It's like the Wild West, really.
[41:57.720 --> 42:00.060]  It's like, you know, I mean, it depends on what you mean.
[42:00.140 --> 42:01.910]  Like, what do you mean by cool stuff that's going on?
[42:01.960 --> 42:07.770]  I mean, if it's accessing files that you couldn't, you know, that you no longer can access, you know, security's clamped down.
[42:07.930 --> 42:09.500]  Like, the internet is full of more people.
[42:09.500 --> 42:10.350]  There's more stakes.
[42:10.560 --> 42:11.310]  The stakes are higher.
[42:11.450 --> 42:12.640]  And so, yeah, I mean, that's hard to do.
[42:12.700 --> 42:18.430]  But, I mean, in terms of building gadgets, like, there's much stronger hacker culture about that these days than I think there was maybe 10 years ago.
[42:18.580 --> 42:18.720]  Right.
[42:18.720 --> 42:28.140]  And obviously, with the growth of the internet, there's no need to jump into corporate computers, to learn about computers, because everyone has one now.
[42:28.140 --> 42:31.740]  So, obviously, what happened in the 80s, that's not... we've grown out of that.
[42:31.850 --> 42:32.770]  We've grown into something else.
[42:32.870 --> 42:42.870]  But it doesn't mean that there still isn't a world of security holes to find, a world of interesting social implications that nobody has thought of yet.
[42:42.870 --> 42:44.160]  And you could be the first person to do that.
[42:44.240 --> 42:48.370]  You just have to pick your field and explore it as much as you possibly can.
[42:48.500 --> 42:48.620]  Yeah.
[42:48.680 --> 42:50.200]  And that's a very good analogy with the Wild West thing.
[42:50.310 --> 42:51.450]  I mean, there's always a new frontier.
[42:51.450 --> 42:58.910]  And that's one thing, that's one constant that we've had in this community since the start, basically, is there's always been people doing things that have never been done before.
[42:59.370 --> 43:00.960]  Nowadays, you have things like the hackerspace movement.
[43:00.960 --> 43:02.390]  You have these camps.
[43:02.480 --> 43:06.310]  You have all this stuff going on that wouldn't have been dreamed of even 10 years ago.
[43:07.160 --> 43:07.560]  And...
[43:07.560 --> 43:10.660]  Yeah, you have hackers distributing beverages across the city.
[43:10.850 --> 43:12.740]  It's things that you never would have thought possible.
[43:12.950 --> 43:13.560]  Bernie, go ahead.
[43:13.960 --> 43:31.810]  I just wanted, along those lines, speaking of hackerspaces and getting involved in events, this coming Saturday, the 25th of July, The Hactory, which is Philadelphia's hackerspace I've been involved with since its inception, will be having an open house and a soldering workshop.
[43:32.120 --> 43:35.700]  We'll be building little mini-music sound synthesizers.
[43:35.950 --> 43:38.790]  So just check out thehactory.org.
[43:39.120 --> 43:40.370]  And it's at 1 o'clock.
[43:40.520 --> 43:42.100]  And the address is on the website.
[43:42.420 --> 43:44.460]  And anybody's welcome to come down.
[43:44.480 --> 43:45.340]  It's going to be a lot of fun.
[43:45.460 --> 43:46.680]  It's a nice hackerspace.
[43:46.700 --> 43:48.220]  You should stop by yourself sometime.
[43:48.220 --> 43:48.340]  Yeah.
[43:48.800 --> 43:51.920]  And if you're scared about soldering, don't be, because I just learned how to do it this weekend.
[43:51.920 --> 43:53.860]  I was actually also hanging out with folks from Philly.
[43:54.020 --> 43:55.770]  I was at the Allied Media Conference.
[43:56.080 --> 43:59.020]  And Prometheus Radio Project, who we love very much, was there.
[43:59.500 --> 44:04.880]  And they had people actually building transmitters for radios that were actually being used at the conference.
[44:05.680 --> 44:07.480]  And basically, it was like, they give you a list of parts.
[44:07.480 --> 44:08.770]  They show you where on the board it goes.
[44:08.920 --> 44:09.980]  It's pretty well laid out.
[44:10.060 --> 44:12.820]  And then you just go ahead and you take some metal and stick it in there.
[44:12.820 --> 44:14.520]  And it's not at all scary.
[44:16.140 --> 44:16.420]  Okay.
[44:16.560 --> 44:16.600]  Thank you.
[44:17.640 --> 44:20.160]  212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[44:20.220 --> 44:22.420]  Let's get a few more calls on there before we go to the...
[44:22.420 --> 44:23.400]  Should we give out our mailing address?
[44:23.520 --> 44:24.340]  We never get any mail.
[44:24.440 --> 44:24.640]  Yeah.
[44:24.700 --> 44:25.060]  Let's do that.
[44:25.100 --> 44:25.320]  Go ahead.
[44:26.400 --> 44:33.540]  The mailing address is off the hook, WBAI, 120 Wall Street, 10th Floor, New York, New York, 1005.
[44:34.400 --> 44:34.700]  Yeah.
[44:34.720 --> 44:35.660]  I almost forgot what it was.
[44:35.770 --> 44:37.200]  It's been so long since we gave it out, but yeah.
[44:37.400 --> 44:37.740]  Well, you come here.
[44:37.940 --> 44:39.800]  You should know how you get here.
[44:39.880 --> 44:42.240]  Yeah, but I don't write down the address when I come here.
[44:42.320 --> 44:43.000]  I simply come here.
[44:43.100 --> 44:43.840]  I don't know where I'm going.
[44:44.120 --> 44:45.480]  You know, every single...
[44:45.480 --> 44:53.180]  If you notice this, every single police drama on television and the movies, they say, okay, your friend that you saw this particular day, what's his address?
[44:53.180 --> 44:54.700]  And everybody always knows the address.
[44:54.940 --> 44:55.420]  You know?
[44:55.600 --> 45:01.160]  If somebody asked me the address of anybody in this room, even though I know where they live, I wouldn't know what the address was.
[45:01.160 --> 45:08.290]  But everybody on TV is able to immediately come up with the exact number of the street and the floor and the apartment number and all that.
[45:08.400 --> 45:10.840]  And you also almost never see them go to the bathroom.
[45:11.400 --> 45:12.200]  How about that?
[45:12.480 --> 45:13.790]  Well, there's a reason for that, I'm sure.
[45:15.480 --> 45:19.320]  What's this I heard about eBooks disappearing?
[45:19.640 --> 45:21.360]  Somebody want to tell me what happened here?
[45:21.360 --> 45:29.360]  Hundreds of Amazon Kindle owners are woke to discover books by a certain famous author mysteriously disappeared from their eBook readers.
[45:29.820 --> 45:35.300]  Now, these were books that they bought and paid for, but their money was refunded and the books were erased.
[45:35.300 --> 45:39.790]  And the books actually belonged to George Orwell?
[45:40.100 --> 45:40.940]  Is this all true?
[45:41.620 --> 45:43.560]  It's the sort of thing you really can't make up.
[45:43.820 --> 45:45.120]  Well, I could have just made it up.
[45:45.290 --> 45:46.200]  But you didn't make it up.
[45:46.200 --> 45:52.790]  No, I'm looking at this from the New York Times, and that's what they say, that 1984 Animal Farm were all erased.
[45:53.000 --> 45:54.740]  Why would somebody do this?
[45:54.900 --> 45:57.900]  Well, apparently the people that...
[45:57.900 --> 46:06.500]  Amazon has a distribution system for their, like, a bookstore for their Kindle devices, where third parties can, like, submit a book.
[46:06.500 --> 46:13.720]  And apparently the people that submitted the book for Animal Farm in 1984 didn't have the rights to it.
[46:13.860 --> 46:20.220]  But interestingly enough, both of those books are in the public domain everywhere except for the U.S.
[46:20.340 --> 46:21.220]  So you can...
[46:21.220 --> 46:26.860]  It's incredibly easy to get public domain versions of that from Canada or something online.
[46:26.860 --> 46:27.220]  Right.
[46:27.220 --> 46:28.060]  And they'll...
[46:28.060 --> 46:31.880]  And so, basically, Amazon, after they found out...
[46:31.880 --> 46:37.680]  Or the Orwell Estate asked them, said, oh, there's a copyright violation.
[46:37.840 --> 46:38.880]  These people didn't have rights.
[46:39.240 --> 46:39.740]  And the...
[46:39.740 --> 46:43.060]  Well, I didn't know they could go in and just simply take the books back from your Kindle.
[46:43.200 --> 46:44.040]  I didn't know they could do that.
[46:44.060 --> 46:44.740]  Well, the...
[46:45.720 --> 46:59.000]  Interestingly enough, the owners of the Orwell Estate that had the rights to it in the United States will not offer any e-book version of any of his work.
[46:59.220 --> 47:02.900]  So, basically, they're just encouraging people to make unauthorized copies of it.
[47:03.270 --> 47:03.340]  Hmm.
[47:03.520 --> 47:03.820]  Interesting.
[47:04.520 --> 47:05.000]  All right.
[47:05.080 --> 47:07.640]  212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[47:07.720 --> 47:08.320]  Let's take a phone call.
[47:08.400 --> 47:08.740]  Good evening.
[47:09.340 --> 47:10.140]  You're on off the hook.
[47:10.680 --> 47:11.040]  Hey.
[47:11.120 --> 47:11.480]  How are you?
[47:11.880 --> 47:12.560]  What's on your mind?
[47:13.600 --> 47:14.360]  Speak up, please.
[47:14.900 --> 47:15.140]  Yes.
[47:15.500 --> 47:17.020]  This is Michael from the Bronx.
[47:17.460 --> 47:17.790]  How you doing?
[47:17.900 --> 47:18.300]  And...
[47:18.300 --> 47:18.880]  Good.
[47:18.880 --> 47:20.420]  I just want to clear something up.
[47:20.640 --> 47:23.790]  Air America never asked its listeners for money.
[47:24.040 --> 47:33.140]  It was certain shows on Air America that asked for listeners support in order to pay for their time on Air America.
[47:33.480 --> 47:33.880]  Uh-huh.
[47:33.880 --> 47:36.100]  Those shows are no longer there.
[47:36.320 --> 47:36.920]  I see.
[47:37.000 --> 47:37.180]  Okay.
[47:37.680 --> 47:40.880]  And also, I have a question for you gentlemen and the lady that's there.
[47:41.080 --> 47:41.520]  Thank you.
[47:41.770 --> 47:42.000]  Go ahead.
[47:42.000 --> 47:55.480]  What do you think would happen if everyone in the country were to sign up for Fios or for Optimum TV?
[47:55.740 --> 47:58.860]  What scenario would you envision?
[47:59.420 --> 48:03.880]  Well, I mean, do you think that you'd overload the system or something?
[48:04.300 --> 48:04.660]  Not offered.
[48:04.740 --> 48:05.400]  Everyone can't.
[48:05.580 --> 48:06.880]  Yeah, everyone can't for one thing.
[48:06.980 --> 48:07.100]  I can't.
[48:07.380 --> 48:09.660]  I'm not in a served area and many people are.
[48:09.660 --> 48:10.420]  Yeah, but you know what?
[48:10.520 --> 48:15.460]  I still get mail constantly telling me to sign up for Fios and when I'm not in the area to start with.
[48:15.620 --> 48:18.720]  And every time I pursue it, they say, well, you're not in the area.
[48:18.880 --> 48:20.080]  I call back when we...
[48:20.080 --> 48:22.680]  But why do they keep sending me the literature?
[48:22.980 --> 48:26.000]  Do they want you to lobby for access for some...
[48:26.000 --> 48:27.740]  Do they want your demand so that you can somehow...
[48:27.740 --> 48:30.940]  Well, I'm demanding they stop sending me this because it's a waste of paper and it's a waste of my time.
[48:31.100 --> 48:33.200]  Well, they want you to talk about this on the radio for free advertising.
[48:33.460 --> 48:33.600]  No!
[48:33.600 --> 48:34.180]  Oh, there you go.
[48:34.300 --> 48:34.600]  Yeah.
[48:34.840 --> 48:35.480]  Well, how about this?
[48:35.540 --> 48:36.140]  Fios sucks.
[48:36.160 --> 48:37.040]  Not worth the money there.
[48:37.040 --> 48:38.270]  The television's better.
[48:38.460 --> 48:38.700]  All right.
[48:38.790 --> 48:39.340]  Anything else, sir?
[48:40.880 --> 48:41.980]  How about this?
[48:42.160 --> 48:42.320]  Yeah.
[48:42.740 --> 48:45.980]  How about if everyone were to...
[48:45.980 --> 48:50.940]  Their communication were to run down one pipe?
[48:52.900 --> 48:57.980]  Just envision everyone's communication running down one pipe.
[48:58.180 --> 48:58.380]  Okay.
[48:59.060 --> 49:01.040]  That would be called mainstream media.
[49:01.200 --> 49:02.680]  It would not be the internet because the internet's...
[49:02.680 --> 49:07.770]  But I think what you're driving at is that they'd be vulnerable because they're all going through the same source.
[49:08.120 --> 49:08.540]  Is that what you're saying?
[49:09.100 --> 49:09.500]  No.
[49:09.660 --> 49:16.940]  In other words, at a flip of a switch, you will not be able to communicate at all.
[49:17.140 --> 49:17.320]  Yeah.
[49:17.360 --> 49:18.140]  That's pretty much what I just said.
[49:18.220 --> 49:18.340]  Okay.
[49:18.540 --> 49:19.460]  Well, yeah.
[49:19.640 --> 49:27.270]  That's something that's definitely at risk for everybody going the same route and everybody signing up for the phone company like the old days or the cable company.
[49:27.270 --> 49:29.080]  Or any web service like Gmail or whatever.
[49:29.240 --> 49:29.380]  Yeah.
[49:29.800 --> 49:32.000]  Thanks for that call.
[49:32.400 --> 49:32.900]  Good evening.
[49:33.060 --> 49:33.620]  You're on...
[49:33.620 --> 49:34.080]  Off the hook.
[49:34.160 --> 49:34.360]  Go ahead.
[49:35.000 --> 49:35.680]  Hey, how are you?
[49:35.820 --> 49:36.020]  Hi.
[49:36.040 --> 49:36.520]  What's on your mind?
[49:37.080 --> 49:37.400]  Good.
[49:37.600 --> 49:42.500]  Well, I had a comment about the Pulse 877 issue being on the FM dial.
[49:42.660 --> 49:42.860]  Okay.
[49:43.420 --> 49:46.960]  And Air America syndicated, it's not actually...
[49:46.960 --> 49:50.240]  You know, it pays radio stations to be on the air.
[49:50.420 --> 49:50.640]  Right.
[49:50.880 --> 49:54.740]  It has failed miserably over the last five years.
[49:54.740 --> 49:56.900]  It was on a local station here in New York.
[49:57.020 --> 49:57.290]  Mm-hmm.
[49:58.080 --> 49:59.880]  And it failed.
[50:00.100 --> 50:01.340]  It couldn't pay the bills.
[50:02.100 --> 50:02.290]  Okay.
[50:02.400 --> 50:05.980]  In fact, I believe they stopped the radio station with a lot of money.
[50:06.240 --> 50:07.600]  Okay, but what's the point here?
[50:08.270 --> 50:08.620]  Pardon me?
[50:08.740 --> 50:10.340]  What point are you driving at though?
[50:10.770 --> 50:11.560]  Let me back up.
[50:11.660 --> 50:11.840]  Yes.
[50:12.040 --> 50:17.440]  On the Pulse 877, the interesting thing is there are a lot of FM radios that cannot hear that radio station.
[50:17.700 --> 50:17.840]  True.
[50:17.920 --> 50:20.580]  Because the FM dial starts at 87.9.
[50:21.380 --> 50:21.820]  Okay.
[50:21.960 --> 50:23.240]  On a lot of FM radios.
[50:23.240 --> 50:29.140]  So they've got, you know, they're not really an advantage being on a television frequency.
[50:29.140 --> 50:30.140]  They're at a disadvantage.
[50:30.380 --> 50:31.860]  A lot of radios can't pick them up.
[50:32.160 --> 50:33.960]  Their signal is from Brooklyn.
[50:34.290 --> 50:36.840]  I believe Brooklyn or Queens is from the hospital.
[50:37.080 --> 50:38.200]  It's not that strong.
[50:38.860 --> 50:49.520]  And even though they got a reprieve from Mega, their corporate parents, I think they stopped asking for donations and they said they were going to actually give all the donations back.
[50:49.520 --> 50:51.880]  In fact, they're still in a lot of trouble commercially.
[50:52.180 --> 50:52.580]  Uh-huh.
[50:52.960 --> 50:53.300]  Well...
[50:53.300 --> 51:09.770]  I mean, if the major stations in New York are having a hard time with revenue, how is a small station like that, you know, with a limited sales staff and I don't even believe that they're on the Arbitron PPM right now.
[51:09.770 --> 51:11.320]  So I'm not sure they're even getting measured.
[51:11.720 --> 51:11.900]  Uh-huh.
[51:12.200 --> 51:15.300]  Well, maybe it should be a community station then, filled with volunteers.
[51:16.380 --> 51:17.180]  Well, possibly.
[51:17.700 --> 51:18.100]  Uh...
[51:18.100 --> 51:29.400]  I mean, the thing is, I know what you're saying about the FM dial, but to be honest, very few radios that I see these days, and I don't know why, but they all seem to go down to at least 87.7, sometimes 87.5.
[51:29.840 --> 51:30.240]  Uh...
[51:30.240 --> 51:31.020]  I'm not exactly sure.
[51:31.200 --> 51:41.840]  I guess maybe because in some cities, people like to listen to Channel 6 or something like that, but the only radio that I know of that only goes to 88.1 is the one that's in my smart car, and that's because it's a European radio.
[51:41.840 --> 52:00.580]  Yeah, it depends on the manufacturer, and actually, admittedly, there were a lot of people disappointed with the digital switchover because they were using Channel 6 in their local areas, or they were listening to TV on, you know, actual TV channel, uh,
[52:01.000 --> 52:14.960]  audio on that channel for weather, and in some, I think it was Kansas City and a couple other cities out in the west and midwest, they were actually using that frequency for, uh, poor man's, uh, early warning weather system.
[52:15.540 --> 52:24.740]  And, and radios that had, you know, that, that frequency could tune into that and hear, you know, the weather service and whatever, but it's not consistent.
[52:24.960 --> 52:28.660]  Um, you know, the FCC in the United States says 87.9 is it.
[52:29.060 --> 52:34.340]  So, you know, now that digital TV has come, uh, those people, again, have lost that.
[52:34.340 --> 52:43.880]  And, you know, mega, mega has a unique position, but, again, there may be some disadvantages for people that don't have, you know, 87.7 on their radio.
[52:44.140 --> 52:45.540]  And there are quite a few, actually.
[52:45.820 --> 52:46.460]  Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[52:47.080 --> 53:04.540]  Uh, I just want to point out about, about two years ago, the FCC, uh, proposed, publicly proposed for, uh, for comments on a new rulemaking to, uh, to discontinue the VHF low band channels, that is, channels two, three, four, five, and six, those that are below the frequency of the FM broadcast band,
[53:04.740 --> 53:18.180]  to discontinue those channels, make those TV stations move to, uh, something channel seven or above, and extend the FM broadcast band down, uh, like another 20 megahertz or something.
[53:18.440 --> 53:25.770]  But the National Association of Broadcasters jumped all over that and said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't do that, because that would be competition.
[53:25.770 --> 53:26.980]  They didn't say it that way.
[53:27.540 --> 53:27.980]  But, uh...
[53:27.980 --> 53:29.100]  You know, I don't get those guys.
[53:29.220 --> 53:34.080]  The National Association of Broadcasters, you'd think they'd want more radio stations, but they want less radio stations.
[53:34.680 --> 53:35.820]  Well, actually, they...
[53:35.820 --> 53:40.580]  Yeah, they do want less radio stations because, uh, you know, they're...
[53:40.980 --> 53:44.820]  Hey, let's face it, if you look at the radio landscape right now across the United States, it's rough.
[53:44.920 --> 53:54.880]  In fact, the fact that Clear Channel's giving away radio stations to teach people ownership is kind of a hypocrisy because I started in mom-and-pop radio.
[53:55.160 --> 53:56.900]  There is no mom-and-pop radio anymore.
[53:57.020 --> 54:06.300]  You know, the fact that going, you know, going upstate New York somewhere like Oneonta or Binghamton or somewhere and buying a little radio station and retiring on that, those days are over.
[54:06.640 --> 54:11.140]  It's just not possible like it, you know, was 20, 30 years ago.
[54:11.300 --> 54:21.270]  So I think, you know, the NAB was trying to protect the commercial broadcasters and at the same time saying, you know, we've got enough frequencies now.
[54:21.560 --> 54:23.700]  Uh, you know, we just don't need any more.
[54:23.840 --> 54:28.040]  We particularly don't need any more non-coms that are out there just beating each other over.
[54:28.480 --> 54:30.600]  Yeah, well, you know, they, they may have enough frequencies.
[54:30.820 --> 54:32.220]  I don't think the people have enough frequencies.
[54:32.700 --> 54:33.060]  So hopefully...
[54:33.060 --> 54:34.080]  That's probably true.
[54:34.300 --> 54:35.480]  Yeah, hopefully that'll, that'll change.
[54:35.680 --> 54:38.380]  Sir, thanks for the call and the thought-provoking, uh, comments there.
[54:38.560 --> 54:40.700]  Let's see if we can squeeze in one more.
[54:41.420 --> 54:42.100]  Do we have one more?
[54:42.180 --> 54:42.640]  Oh, the lights went out.
[54:42.720 --> 54:43.080]  Look at that.
[54:43.290 --> 54:44.420]  We don't have any calls on the line.
[54:44.420 --> 54:46.920]  Well, I guess, uh, is the phone broken?
[54:47.520 --> 54:50.440]  Everybody just tripped off into, um, into Neverland.
[54:50.600 --> 54:50.860]  Oh, well.
[54:51.800 --> 54:52.200]  Okay.
[54:52.460 --> 54:55.160]  Uh, well, any, uh, closing remarks, uh, from anybody?
[54:56.060 --> 54:56.460]  Nobody.
[54:56.800 --> 54:57.520]  I have one.
[54:57.600 --> 54:58.040]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[54:58.580 --> 55:12.560]  Uh, what, what the gentleman was, uh, that, that interesting caller was also saying, uh, along those lines, uh, you may, if you listen to, uh, uh, uh, a TV audio, uh, carrier on 87.7 megahertz, it doesn't sound nearly as good as an FM broadcast station because,
[55:12.840 --> 55:16.080]  uh, they have to broadcast at a, uh, a different FM deviation.
[55:16.440 --> 55:21.060]  Uh, a broadcast, an FM broadcast station is 75 kilohertz deviation in either way.
[55:21.160 --> 55:25.770]  I know this is kind of technical, but, but with a, with a TV station, it's not as much FM deviation.
[55:26.000 --> 55:30.340]  So that's why it sounds really kind of yellowy and scroungy, not, not, not very good fidelity.
[55:31.080 --> 55:37.240]  Um, so that's, that was one of the downsides of using the channel six, uh, audio carrier as an FM broadcast medium.
[55:37.500 --> 55:40.560]  Just a, uh, you know, technical trivia tidbit there.
[55:40.900 --> 55:41.180]  Okay.
[55:41.740 --> 55:51.580]  Well, uh, the FM dial and the AM dial, of course, always filled with intrigue and drama and mystery, and we're happy to talk about it openly here on this radio station whenever the, uh, mood strikes us.
[55:51.770 --> 55:55.500]  You can write to us, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[55:55.660 --> 56:01.040]  We'll be happy to, uh, respond on air if, uh, if, uh, events warrant it.
[56:01.440 --> 56:06.500]  Otherwise tune in next week from seven to eight for another exciting edition of off the hook on WBAI.
[56:06.820 --> 56:08.480]  Stay tuned for the personal computer show.
[56:09.060 --> 56:10.040]  We'll see you next week.
[56:10.040 --> 56:10.860]  Oh, oh,
[56:41.600 --> 56:54.080]  oh, oh.
[01:00:32.830 --> 01:00:37.510]  Ooh, yeah, you're listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM.