[00:04.380 --> 00:17.760]  So, the plaster is falling, the paint is peeling, the plumbing is leaking, the heat and hot water keep cutting off, the elevator keeps breaking down, and the landlord won't return your calls, but the rent keeps going up, and up, and up?
[00:18.160 --> 00:20.160]  Find out what you can do about it.
[00:20.160 --> 00:23.220]  Tune in to Housing Notebook, Mondays at 8 p.m.
[00:35.730 --> 00:39.590]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[00:39.830 --> 00:41.630]  We're sorry about the news.
[00:41.630 --> 00:43.830]  We had a bad disc there.
[00:44.250 --> 00:49.490]  But it's now time for the weekly program, Off the Hook, as we wait for the CD to queue up.
[00:49.970 --> 00:52.190]  Yes, Off the Hook begins now.
[00:59.260 --> 01:03.520]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:04.620 --> 01:09.000]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:09.760 --> 01:11.900]  Oh, we couldn't get much worse.
[01:14.320 --> 01:17.280]  Fond du lit bon for the best, it's back the worst.
[01:18.020 --> 01:19.800]  I hope that's understood.
[01:20.000 --> 01:20.820]  Fond du lit bon!
[02:47.670 --> 02:48.670]  And a big evening to everybody.
[02:48.790 --> 02:49.790]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:49.870 --> 02:52.530]  Emmanuel Gullstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:52.770 --> 02:54.610]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:54.850 --> 02:55.110]  Hi.
[02:55.350 --> 02:55.650]  Jim.
[02:55.990 --> 02:56.210]  Hi.
[02:56.510 --> 02:56.990]  Rob T.
[02:57.190 --> 02:57.670]  Firefly.
[02:57.950 --> 02:58.330]  Good evening.
[02:58.590 --> 02:58.930]  Gus.
[02:59.150 --> 02:59.430]  Oh, hi.
[02:59.770 --> 03:01.430]  And Dot Rhett.
[03:01.570 --> 03:02.070]  Hello, hello.
[03:02.270 --> 03:02.890]  Down in Philadelphia.
[03:03.290 --> 03:03.770]  Bernie S.
[03:03.890 --> 03:04.410]  joins us.
[03:04.910 --> 03:05.930]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[03:05.930 --> 03:09.330]  Bernie, I read a story this week, which unfortunately, I'm trying to read now.
[03:09.450 --> 03:10.070]  I printed it out.
[03:10.170 --> 03:17.670]  But, you know, you ever have that thing happen where you print something, and instead of word wrapping, it just goes off the page, and you don't realize it until it's too late, and you're on the radio?
[03:18.350 --> 03:20.210]  Oh, the old document formatting problem.
[03:20.470 --> 03:20.950]  Yeah, you try it.
[03:21.070 --> 03:25.910]  And there's no way to format it properly, because, well, I'm on the printer-friendly page.
[03:26.170 --> 03:31.410]  And I have to say, the people at Channel 3 down there, at KYW...
[03:31.410 --> 03:32.090]  KYW.
[03:32.370 --> 03:34.070]  Well, it's not just Channel 3.
[03:34.070 --> 03:39.970]  They have a very popular medium-wave AM radio station that's been here for decades, KYW.
[03:40.110 --> 03:43.950]  So it's both KYW 1060 AM and Channel 3 TV.
[03:44.230 --> 03:45.430]  Yeah, you bought me some time there.
[03:45.610 --> 03:48.190]  I'm trying to type in the URL, so keep talking about them for a second.
[03:48.690 --> 03:49.070]  Apparently...
[03:49.070 --> 03:51.910]  Yeah, well, it used to be a Westinghouse broadcasting company.
[03:51.910 --> 03:54.590]  Now it's owned by one of these big conglomerates, I forget.
[03:54.830 --> 03:55.910]  Okay, I did type in the URL.
[03:55.910 --> 03:58.430]  Now I'm just waiting for BAI to load on their internet.
[03:58.430 --> 03:59.550]  What was the gist of this story?
[03:59.550 --> 04:00.210]  Okay, here we go.
[04:00.290 --> 04:00.890]  I have it now.
[04:00.990 --> 04:01.230]  I have it.
[04:01.690 --> 04:05.070]  Okay, I think their formatting is as bad as they're reporting.
[04:05.930 --> 04:07.510]  Okay, twice in the past two days...
[04:07.510 --> 04:11.790]  And keep in mind, this was actually dated September 24th, so we're just going to have to transport ourselves back a week.
[04:12.410 --> 04:17.470]  Twice in the past two days, SEPTA officials, and that's the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority, I believe...
[04:17.470 --> 04:23.490]  They have alerted police to men taking pictures on the Broad Street subway line in South Philadelphia.
[04:24.040 --> 04:35.810]  On Wednesday, a SEPTA cashier told officers about a man taking pictures at the Lombard South Station, but the man, after being questioned by the cashier about his activities, left before officers arrived.
[04:36.050 --> 04:37.190]  We are attempting...
[04:37.190 --> 04:45.270]  Yeah, we are attempting to identify that male to determine what the nature or the reason for taking the photographs was, says Chief Inspector Joseph Sullivan.
[04:45.270 --> 04:52.350]  Now, on Tuesday, officers received a report of a male taking pictures in the track area at the Snyder Avenue station.
[04:52.750 --> 05:01.550]  So far, neither male has been identified, although Philadelphia police officials say the two separate incidents have no link to any terrorist activities.
[05:01.810 --> 05:12.170]  I would like to congratulate the city of Philadelphia on completely eliminating crime, such that the police have nothing else to do but wonder about the identities of tourists taking photographs.
[05:12.450 --> 05:14.830]  Let me continue here, because this points to a very serious problem.
[05:15.270 --> 05:24.450]  While police have video of the man who they are hoping to identify from the Snyder Avenue station incident, incident, there is no video of the second man.
[05:24.710 --> 05:24.850]  Why?
[05:25.030 --> 05:32.530]  Because cameras at the Lombard South Station and at three of six SEPTA subway stations in South Philadelphia are covered and not yet working.
[05:33.010 --> 05:34.090]  Oh, my God.
[05:34.090 --> 05:35.010]  Look what happened.
[05:35.690 --> 05:37.950]  SEPTA officials...
[05:37.950 --> 05:47.630]  A security system, which the Transit Authority describes as state-of-the-art, is still being installed, and they don't yet know exactly when the cameras will be uncovered and begin working.
[05:47.810 --> 05:57.390]  This story is amazing, because there is absolutely nothing to report, and they did such a great job of causing panic and making people think that there was some kind of an issue.
[05:58.070 --> 06:00.990]  Two men taking pictures, and, you know, everyone sort of...
[06:00.990 --> 06:03.390]  Everyone combined forces on this.
[06:03.490 --> 06:05.190]  The police said, well, we haven't interviewed this person yet.
[06:05.190 --> 06:05.850]  We want to talk to them.
[06:06.090 --> 06:08.590]  They were taking pictures, for God's sake, in a subway station.
[06:08.690 --> 06:09.730]  Is that such a big deal now?
[06:10.210 --> 06:13.230]  KYW, of course, saying, wow, this is a horrible thing.
[06:13.230 --> 06:17.510]  We have to find these people, and the fact that the cameras weren't working makes it all the worse.
[06:18.010 --> 06:19.710]  Yes, Bernie, what do you think about all this?
[06:19.710 --> 06:22.490]  Well, I've seen these state-of-the-art cameras on the Broad Street line.
[06:22.590 --> 06:25.830]  They have state-of-the-art plastic bags over them right now, but that's not the point.
[06:25.990 --> 06:29.430]  The point is, the police are claiming a falsehood.
[06:30.030 --> 06:31.490]  The police are lying here.
[06:31.610 --> 06:38.110]  The Philadelphia police say, we don't know who these guys were, but we know they're not linked together or linked to terrorism in any way.
[06:38.230 --> 06:42.710]  Well, first of all, I don't think they have any new terrorism, but how do they know that?
[06:42.790 --> 06:44.310]  Because they don't even know.
[06:44.630 --> 06:46.730]  They're just pulling the stuff out of their ass.
[06:46.990 --> 06:54.050]  Well, okay, that's one way of phrasing it, but more importantly, anything that happens anywhere at any time could be linked to terrorism.
[06:54.050 --> 07:02.910]  I think that's what you're trying to say there, because they would love to say that there could be a link to terrorism here, just to make people all the more frightened of someone taking pictures in the subway station, right?
[07:03.010 --> 07:06.230]  Well, I think the reason that they said that this has...
[07:06.930 --> 07:08.450]  We know that this has nothing...
[07:08.450 --> 07:09.950]  It's not linked to terrorism in any way.
[07:10.130 --> 07:11.010]  The police said this.
[07:11.030 --> 07:21.670]  I think the reason that they said that is because if they said it might have, They would look like doofuses for not, you know, tracking these people down or having cameras that would find them.
[07:21.790 --> 07:28.110]  So the only thing they could have said is, like, don't worry about it, it's safe, which is really the truth, but not for the right reason.
[07:28.470 --> 07:30.570]  How does a story like this get started?
[07:30.590 --> 07:34.790]  Who is the first person to pick up the phone and say, hey, we've got an incident here.
[07:34.890 --> 07:38.010]  Someone's just snapping photos of a subway station.
[07:38.090 --> 07:39.550]  Who started the whole process?
[07:39.650 --> 07:40.410]  That's what I'd like to know.
[07:40.410 --> 07:45.730]  So KYW, on a daily basis, probably more than once a day, calls the different police organizations.
[07:45.830 --> 07:50.750]  This was actually the SEPTA Transit Police, not the Philadelphia Police Department, so I misspoke earlier.
[07:51.590 --> 07:57.270]  They call these different law enforcement agencies every day and say, you know, any news, it was obviously a slow news day.
[07:57.510 --> 07:59.670]  And the police said, well, we had some complaints of this.
[07:59.750 --> 08:02.550]  The police have to report the complaints.
[08:02.830 --> 08:04.670]  So this is like a police blotter, basically.
[08:04.790 --> 08:07.130]  This is like squirrels seen in yards next door.
[08:07.730 --> 08:09.830]  Yeah, I mean, well, someone had to make the complaint.
[08:09.830 --> 08:11.190]  I guess that's the person behind the booth.
[08:12.130 --> 08:13.370]  I'd like to talk to that person.
[08:13.630 --> 08:21.750]  What really bothers me about this sort of thing is, you know, do I have to worry when I'm going down to Philadelphia that if I'm on a train taking a photo of some friend of mine that I could get tackled by the cops?
[08:21.870 --> 08:26.130]  Well, first of all, was this person on a train or were they taking a picture of a train?
[08:26.230 --> 08:26.670]  Very different.
[08:26.750 --> 08:29.050]  So now we're going to have all these, you know, legal technicalities?
[08:29.510 --> 08:30.730]  It's a very clear cut, I think.
[08:30.910 --> 08:33.070]  I mean, it could have been a lot worse for them.
[08:33.150 --> 08:36.930]  I mean, I have a friend who's an architect and he was actually sketching, I think, Penn Station.
[08:37.050 --> 08:39.610]  They need to stop making train stations so architecturally interesting.
[08:39.610 --> 08:41.070]  He was just like, ooh, this is really neat.
[08:41.230 --> 08:42.250]  I want to remember this design.
[08:42.270 --> 08:42.950]  And he got stopped.
[08:43.370 --> 08:48.050]  Unfortunately, he was on his way for a long trip to, I think, Egypt, Turkey, and Israel.
[08:48.330 --> 08:50.470]  So he had his passport all prepared for that.
[08:50.470 --> 08:54.030]  And he's a tall, you know, jewish guy, not really swarthy or anything.
[08:54.190 --> 08:55.410]  But he's, you know, so he had that.
[08:55.490 --> 08:57.110]  And then also, he's a curious guy.
[08:57.110 --> 09:00.690]  So earlier, he'd happened by some Nation of Islam guys or something like that.
[09:00.770 --> 09:04.950]  And they had said, they'd given him some pamphlets and he was interested in reading more.
[09:04.950 --> 09:10.610]  So he had these pamphlets on him in addition to his sketches of the subway and his passport marked for going to Parts East.
[09:10.750 --> 09:11.290]  Anything else?
[09:11.830 --> 09:13.170]  You know, I mean, I don't know.
[09:13.350 --> 09:14.230]  I think that's enough for the cops here.
[09:14.230 --> 09:14.730]  That was just about enough.
[09:14.730 --> 09:17.490]  So he actually had to postpone his trip slightly for that one.
[09:17.770 --> 09:18.630]  Oh, my goodness.
[09:19.650 --> 09:25.650]  I want to go down to Penn Station with measuring tape and just, you know, walk it all off and see what kind of reaction to get there.
[09:26.110 --> 09:29.010]  Gus, did you describe Penn Station as architecturally interesting?
[09:29.530 --> 09:31.690]  I think you're thinking of somewhere else in the universe.
[09:31.690 --> 09:34.550]  It might have been a different station, but I mean, that's the thing is, I think, you know...
[09:34.550 --> 09:35.550]  Maybe it was the old Penn Station.
[09:35.650 --> 09:36.350]  He went back in time.
[09:36.450 --> 09:37.330]  They're probably not even tourists.
[09:37.450 --> 09:40.550]  They might have just been photographers who were like, ooh, nice light and shadows.
[09:40.650 --> 09:42.990]  It's a chiaroscuro and, you know, like that.
[09:43.070 --> 09:43.210]  Yeah.
[09:43.310 --> 09:44.130]  They talk just like that, too.
[09:44.230 --> 09:46.990]  Well, anyway, the point is, this is ridiculous.
[09:47.410 --> 09:52.210]  And I think people in Philadelphia need to all go down and take pictures of the subway.
[09:52.330 --> 09:53.430]  Bernie, I assume you're going to do that.
[09:54.050 --> 09:59.910]  Yeah, well, I had a similar experience in New Jersey Transit a few years ago where I was taking pictures and I was really harassed and almost arrested by a cop.
[09:59.910 --> 10:04.390]  And I finally was able to show him it was not illegal after he said, there's a law.
[10:04.590 --> 10:05.770]  It's not in writing, but there's a law.
[10:05.870 --> 10:16.530]  So I think I'm going to go to SEPTA and actually get some document from the legal counsel stating that there's no law that says you can't take pictures and there's nothing wrong with that.
[10:16.610 --> 10:28.750]  And so next time I take pictures on a platform, it was not me in the pictures, by the way, but next time I do, and I have before with my cell phone, I'll be prepared with a little document in my wallet to flip out so I can flip out.
[10:29.850 --> 10:39.370]  The citizens of Philadelphia need not actually go down and take pictures because their government is preparing on their behalf to create a constant stream of images from the subway system.
[10:39.530 --> 10:41.270]  We don't like the fidelity of those images.
[10:41.450 --> 10:42.490]  The resolution's too poor.
[10:42.550 --> 10:49.390]  I'm just saying if the city of Philadelphia wishes there to not be any images of their subway system, they're taking the wrong approach with these security cameras.
[10:49.590 --> 10:56.990]  Yeah, well, that's the thing I don't get is they have plenty of surveillance, plenty of pictures, but if you take pictures, that's considered a bad thing.
[10:56.990 --> 11:13.010]  Well, quite the opposite, actually, in Southern California, where this is according to the government security news, fed up with illegal immigrants strewing garbage and setting campfires as they make their way north across their properties in eastern San Diego County.
[11:13.230 --> 11:26.890]  At least three separate property owners have joined forces with security vendors to install sophisticated radar, video surveillance, thermal imaging, and vibration sensing systems on their land so they can detect unlawful trespassers and notify border patrol agents.
[11:27.070 --> 11:39.170]  The property owners have taken it upon themselves to deploy sophisticated detection and surveillance equipment in an effort to spot the immigrants who have scaled or bypassed barriers erected along the U.S.-Mexican border.
[11:39.290 --> 11:40.050]  They call them immigrants.
[11:40.350 --> 11:43.750]  I mean, don't they want to call them something more insulting than that?
[11:43.870 --> 11:45.650]  I just need to apologize for my state.
[11:46.170 --> 11:46.550]  Sorry.
[11:46.550 --> 11:47.310]  Is that your state?
[11:47.370 --> 11:48.870]  It was my state at one point.
[11:48.870 --> 11:49.090]  Okay.
[11:49.330 --> 11:53.270]  How do these guys know that all trespassers are undocumented immigrants?
[11:53.550 --> 11:54.870]  Well, I don't know.
[11:55.050 --> 11:57.370]  I mean, they could just be people out for a walk.
[11:57.510 --> 11:57.990]  That is true.
[11:58.130 --> 12:02.490]  Yes, because many people out for a walk come from the direction of Mexico and scale people's distances.
[12:02.590 --> 12:02.990]  All these...
[12:02.990 --> 12:08.530]  The property owners find trash on their property and they're like, oh, it must have been someone coming from the direction of Mexico illegally.
[12:09.110 --> 12:12.830]  Maybe they look at wrappers that are burning and they come from Mexico or something like that.
[12:13.050 --> 12:13.670]  Is that possible?
[12:13.930 --> 12:14.770]  Bimbo bread wrappers.
[12:14.770 --> 12:15.690]  Yeah, anything.
[12:16.070 --> 12:22.190]  You know, I sometimes find mysterious trash on my property, but I guess we have Mexican immigrants sneaking in via Long Island.
[12:22.470 --> 12:24.430]  Actually, that's a big issue on Long Island.
[12:24.550 --> 12:28.070]  There's all kinds of anti-Mexican sentiment there, but I'm going to get me started on that.
[12:28.430 --> 12:42.490]  Anyway, spokesman for two different security companies, Plex Tech, which is a UK-based radar manufacturer, and Moog Inc., a sensor and surveillance supplier based in East Aurora, New York, have told government security news.
[12:42.770 --> 12:52.650]  They have loaned radar, loaned radar, ground sensors, cameras, thermal imaging gear, and acoustic devices to a retired rancher who has nothing to do with his large property.
[12:52.770 --> 12:54.710]  And it comes within a few hundred yards of the border.
[12:54.770 --> 13:01.390]  A second owner who has allowed a public utility tower to be erected on his land and a third owner with hilltop acreage.
[13:01.390 --> 13:06.590]  So basically, this is an advertisement for the two security technology vendors.
[13:06.610 --> 13:09.730]  It seems like, yeah, they want these people to use their technology.
[13:09.730 --> 13:16.510]  What they really want is for the property owners to say this technology is so awesome, you go government, buy a billion dollars worth of it.
[13:16.530 --> 13:16.970]  That's interesting.
[13:17.050 --> 13:19.470]  I wonder if this got into the news as a press release originally.
[13:19.630 --> 13:25.410]  Or I don't know if it was quite that direct, but I'm sure the security companies are really glad for this press.
[13:25.650 --> 13:26.230]  Yeah, absolutely.
[13:26.650 --> 13:28.270]  Bernie, I think you forwarded this to us.
[13:28.330 --> 13:29.710]  This is from Government Security News.
[13:29.770 --> 13:31.030]  What kind of publication is that?
[13:31.390 --> 13:37.630]  Oh, it's one of the many security publications I subscribe to to keep up on what the other side is doing.
[13:38.150 --> 13:40.470]  Well, not the other side, but just what our government is doing.
[13:41.130 --> 13:53.270]  Yeah, I find this whole thing to be very interesting, that people themselves are turning into Big Brother in various ways and watching over everybody and reporting each other and all kinds of craziness.
[13:53.450 --> 13:54.670]  That's really a California thing.
[13:54.770 --> 14:03.810]  I mean, specifically that region, you know, there's a lot of sort of nativist sentiment down there and a lot of people who are vigilantes.
[14:03.970 --> 14:05.330]  I mean, you know, you think about vigilantes down there, too.
[14:05.450 --> 14:05.650]  Texas, too.
[14:05.870 --> 14:06.830]  And there's all kinds of places.
[14:06.830 --> 14:06.950]  Yeah, exactly.
[14:06.950 --> 14:09.390]  So it's just a matter of them, you know, obtaining...
[14:09.950 --> 14:11.530]  Even Florida, and they don't border Mexico.
[14:11.750 --> 14:11.950]  Yeah.
[14:12.130 --> 14:12.970]  So go figure that one.
[14:13.050 --> 14:16.890]  Obtaining, you know, stronger technology for doing the things they've been doing.
[14:17.290 --> 14:25.110]  There was a story a month or so back of somebody who actually was doing the opposite and had left water out for people that were traveling across the desert.
[14:25.570 --> 14:26.790]  And he got arrested.
[14:26.950 --> 14:27.550]  He got arrested.
[14:27.910 --> 14:29.970]  And the thing that they got him for was unbelievable.
[14:30.150 --> 14:32.290]  This just shows you where the priorities are.
[14:32.530 --> 14:42.310]  They said that he was interfering with nature by leaving water outside and confusing the wildlife and thinking that there was water and things available to them that was not necessarily available.
[14:42.410 --> 14:45.230]  And they cited instances where animals were dying.
[14:45.430 --> 14:47.110]  It was the most ridiculous thing ever.
[14:47.110 --> 14:54.310]  But basically, this is what happens if you try to help somebody and keep them from dying in the desert, even though they might be an illegal alien or whatever you want to call them.
[14:55.110 --> 15:02.670]  And meanwhile, you have people like this going around and just hunting down people and trying to report them and all that.
[15:02.910 --> 15:05.110]  Yeah, that seems pretty strange because from...
[15:05.650 --> 15:06.270]  What is it?
[15:06.370 --> 15:16.890]  There's a park not too far away from here that it's considered a national wildlife protective whatever the heck, because it has water there, that it helps wildlife.
[15:16.890 --> 15:19.150]  Yeah, I mean, that's something we have here.
[15:19.370 --> 15:21.510]  But I guess down there, it's not considered as...
[15:21.510 --> 15:23.030]  National, I would assume, in the United States.
[15:23.530 --> 15:27.090]  So yeah, that's some of what's going on down there.
[15:27.650 --> 15:28.430]  Interesting things.
[15:28.690 --> 15:42.830]  And then you have all kinds of companies that are involved in technology that is, I guess, designed for nothing short of torture, of really annoying people.
[15:42.830 --> 15:46.990]  We heard about this case down in Pittsburgh of the G20 protesters.
[15:47.010 --> 15:49.030]  Not very many of them, not a whole lot of people down there.
[15:49.350 --> 15:54.190]  But boy, the cops showed up in force and they used this device.
[15:54.390 --> 15:55.250]  Okay, I'm going to play the device.
[15:55.310 --> 15:55.910]  I have it.
[15:55.990 --> 15:57.230]  I played it on my show last night.
[15:57.410 --> 15:59.990]  And Bernie, you might want to cover your ears or your phone down there.
[16:00.330 --> 16:01.830]  Of course, this probably won't work.
[16:01.870 --> 16:05.090]  But let's see if I can actually get this to work.
[16:05.170 --> 16:08.170]  This is what they used on people in the street.
[16:08.170 --> 16:10.370]  And I'm playing a YouTube video over the computer.
[16:10.570 --> 16:12.670]  And you see what's covering their ears.
[16:12.730 --> 16:14.170]  I'll tell you when I press the button, okay?
[16:14.590 --> 16:16.070]  People in the hallway are covering their ears.
[16:18.230 --> 16:20.130]  Basically, people downstairs in the street, yes.
[16:21.150 --> 16:26.850]  What happened was there was this kind of tank-like vehicle, I guess, that says Pittsburgh Police on it.
[16:27.730 --> 16:29.630]  And they were trying to clear...
[16:29.630 --> 16:30.850]  The street was not full of people.
[16:30.990 --> 16:32.910]  They just were playing this horrible sound.
[16:33.050 --> 16:36.790]  And everybody was suffering as a result.
[16:36.970 --> 16:37.370]  Let's listen.
[16:54.230 --> 16:56.030]  All right, Bernie, you shouldn't try to speak over it.
[16:56.090 --> 16:56.950]  That only makes it worse.
[16:57.630 --> 16:57.790]  Wow.
[16:58.010 --> 17:02.410]  But yeah, and that gap was just our computer system failing.
[17:02.550 --> 17:06.350]  But yeah, it was a lot louder than that, obviously, in person.
[17:06.970 --> 17:09.110]  And what a horrible thing to do to people.
[17:09.230 --> 17:13.050]  But they've invented so many other things, so many things that make you sick.
[17:13.050 --> 17:16.170]  If they aim, like, a particular device at you.
[17:16.330 --> 17:22.630]  All kinds of horrible devices that companies are making and police are experimenting on.
[17:23.430 --> 17:29.730]  Now, while a lot of people might say it's horrible, you could say, well, it might be better than the alternative of...
[17:29.730 --> 17:30.250]  What's the alternative?
[17:30.630 --> 17:32.870]  Well, think about places like Grand Central.
[17:33.010 --> 17:36.110]  They have cops with automatics in crowded spaces.
[17:36.110 --> 17:37.190]  They don't usually shoot people.
[17:37.370 --> 17:39.670]  But what happens if they felt they needed to use...
[17:39.670 --> 17:42.550]  Yeah, I've always wondered that, like, why they have those in the first place.
[17:42.550 --> 17:48.870]  But it's very rare that cops in a demonstration in this country at least open fire on crowds of people.
[17:48.930 --> 17:51.890]  Whereas this is something they may be tempted to use a lot more frequently.
[17:52.130 --> 17:53.370]  And it's horrible.
[17:53.530 --> 17:54.630]  It causes permanent ear damage.
[17:54.630 --> 17:56.170]  It makes your ears bleed, in fact.
[17:56.610 --> 17:59.270]  A lot of people are affected who have nothing to do with any demonstration.
[17:59.270 --> 18:00.990]  Not that demonstrators need to be targeted.
[18:01.170 --> 18:02.510]  What is wrong with demonstrating?
[18:03.110 --> 18:05.070]  All kinds of questions you can ask about this.
[18:05.190 --> 18:09.990]  But this is the kind of thing that once it catches on and once it does not get challenged, becomes the norm.
[18:10.330 --> 18:10.950]  Well, that's a question.
[18:11.090 --> 18:15.650]  Is this something that's going to be out as frequently as the automatic weapons are?
[18:16.290 --> 18:21.810]  I mean, I think it always seems to me that some of these really weird technologies, they talk about them for quite some time.
[18:21.970 --> 18:23.750]  You hear, you know, oh, we're going to try this at the next protest.
[18:23.750 --> 18:26.050]  And then you wait a while and it does show up at a later protest.
[18:26.290 --> 18:33.750]  And I feel like, you know, these, you know, exercises of free speech are basically being used as a laboratory for like, hey, we got this new thing.
[18:33.830 --> 18:34.850]  Let's see what it does to people.
[18:35.010 --> 18:37.190]  You know, it's kind of unnerving.
[18:37.410 --> 18:37.590]  Yeah.
[18:37.690 --> 18:40.730]  They say this could cause fatal aneurysms, a speculation of that.
[18:41.690 --> 18:52.650]  They, according to the Guardian of the UK, the sonic weapon appeared to be more effective than the London police highly contentious kettling tactics used against G20 protesters in London.
[18:52.650 --> 18:53.770]  I'm not sure what that is.
[18:53.890 --> 18:56.110]  Does anybody know what the kettling tactics are?
[18:56.130 --> 18:56.790]  It's not a technology.
[18:56.790 --> 18:58.230]  I forget exactly how it works.
[18:58.350 --> 19:03.530]  It involves splitting up groups of protesters and making them not effective.
[19:03.990 --> 19:04.250]  Uh-huh.
[19:04.410 --> 19:04.610]  Okay.
[19:05.010 --> 19:09.570]  Well, Pittsburgh officials told the New York Times proudly that it was the first time sound cannons had been used publicly.
[19:09.910 --> 19:10.490]  Oh, joy.
[19:10.490 --> 19:11.370]  So there you go.
[19:12.350 --> 19:12.750]  Yeah.
[19:12.970 --> 19:15.470]  And this is what happened in Pittsburgh.
[19:15.670 --> 19:17.630]  It was not reported in the news at all, I don't think.
[19:17.630 --> 19:26.530]  Well, you know, they bought this thing, and probably this is like the... some people marching down the street is probably like the biggest disturbance to happen in this country in a few months.
[19:26.650 --> 19:28.290]  So they're like, oh, we should use it.
[19:28.710 --> 19:28.970]  Yeah.
[19:29.070 --> 19:36.350]  Well, you know, there's other ways of dealing with people who are doing more than just marching down the street if they're causing damage or hurting people.
[19:36.450 --> 19:40.830]  Yeah, there's ways of dealing with that that don't involve things like this, which is tantamount to torture, I think.
[19:40.830 --> 19:41.510]  It's...
[19:41.510 --> 19:42.330]  Go ahead, Barney.
[19:43.870 --> 19:51.510]  I saw the video for this on YouTube, and anybody who wants to see it can email us at oth at 2600.com, and we'll send it to you if it hasn't been taken down yet.
[19:51.850 --> 19:57.390]  This tank-like thing with the sound cannon on it was going down a small residential street.
[19:57.530 --> 20:04.070]  These are just private homes along the street, and there were a handful of protesters walking along, certainly not a big crowd.
[20:04.630 --> 20:22.310]  If I lived on that street, I'd have been really pissed off with this thing going by, because reportedly the sound level, the sound pressure level out of this thing is 151 dB at close range, which is louder than being on an airport tarmac next to a live jet engine.
[20:22.610 --> 20:26.990]  This will cause permanent hearing damage if you're near this thing for any amount of time.
[20:26.990 --> 20:40.610]  Now, there is a guy who's riding the top of this tank-like machine with his head sticking up like Michael Dukakis, but he's got these hearing protectors on, so obviously he's protected from the noise.
[20:40.770 --> 20:48.730]  He probably has earplugs in, too, but he's also got to have some way to hear command, so he's only has these noise-canceling headphones, too, perhaps.
[20:48.730 --> 20:59.850]  But there is a way... there is a... I was trying to figure out how can people guard themselves against this sort of thing, besides wearing the kind of earmuffs that go over your ear that really, really block out a lot of sound.
[21:00.470 --> 21:04.370]  They're also used by people that shoot guns at shooting ranges, that kind of thing.
[21:04.810 --> 21:07.030]  You can get a can of this stuff called Great Stuff.
[21:07.070 --> 21:11.070]  It's like this expanding foam spray that hardens rather quickly.
[21:11.250 --> 21:14.230]  If you can, like, get up on top of this... It's not a tank with any...
[21:14.230 --> 21:14.770]  Oh, wait, wait.
[21:14.810 --> 21:15.970]  Let me just stop you right there.
[21:15.970 --> 21:16.570]  Stop, stop, stop.
[21:16.570 --> 21:18.710]  You're never going to get on top of this thing.
[21:18.850 --> 21:19.990]  No, it's good, but they park it.
[21:20.010 --> 21:22.050]  They have to park it somewhere the night before.
[21:22.250 --> 21:23.730]  Yeah, I think they might guard it.
[21:23.850 --> 21:31.490]  Look, I'm all for destroying the thing, totally, and I think if there is ever an excuse to destroy something, this is it, without hurting people, obviously.
[21:31.610 --> 21:34.630]  But if they tried to use this overseas, you know that's exactly what would happen.
[21:34.650 --> 21:36.570]  This thing would be in flames inside of 20 minutes.
[21:36.990 --> 21:39.130]  All right, so we need to start thinking that way.
[21:39.230 --> 21:47.430]  Sometimes that kind of action is appropriate, and when they attack you like this, and they are attacking everybody in its range, you have to take some kind of action.
[21:47.610 --> 21:48.310]  No question, Gus.
[21:48.450 --> 21:49.770]  Can I just say what I was going to say?
[21:49.890 --> 21:50.270]  All right, go ahead.
[21:50.910 --> 22:00.670]  Well, if you get a can of this expanding foam, and just spray it into the sound aperture, it's like a small cone that's pointed at the dish, if you just fill it in there, it hardens like epoxy.
[22:00.710 --> 22:02.210]  It's really, really hard to get out.
[22:02.210 --> 22:09.410]  And the FBI themselves have used this same foam, expanding foam, on outdoor burglar alarm horns when they're doing like...
[22:09.410 --> 22:10.470]  Okay, is there a way we could...
[22:10.470 --> 22:13.470]  Can we shoot this across the city street somehow, aiming at them?
[22:13.550 --> 22:17.190]  No, no, you have to be really close to the thing to shoot it in the hole.
[22:17.330 --> 22:25.190]  But I'm saying that the FBI has used this same technique to break into people's homes and to defeat the burglar alarm systems that make a lot of noise.
[22:25.190 --> 22:27.110]  So I say turnabout is fair play.
[22:27.310 --> 22:31.170]  And, you know, if you see one of these vehicles unattended, then, you know...
[22:31.170 --> 22:32.930]  That is a lovely idea.
[22:33.110 --> 22:34.210]  I really like that.
[22:34.490 --> 22:40.390]  I mean, it's... the sort of... the idea of this going down a residential street reminds me...
[22:40.390 --> 22:49.010]  I was in a protest in Quebec once where they used so much tear gas that they had to evacuate senior centers nearby because basically there was no ventilation and people were beginning to be suffering, you know.
[22:49.450 --> 22:53.470]  I sort of wonder about the sort of peripheral radicalization that happens there.
[22:53.470 --> 22:55.810]  I mean, you have people walking by in a catch-and-release protest.
[22:55.990 --> 22:58.430]  They get arrested and suddenly, you know, their cause is your cause.
[22:58.510 --> 23:04.230]  I don't want this to happen to anybody, but it certainly does get people, I hope, talking with their local police forces more.
[23:04.830 --> 23:10.890]  And I think that really needs to happen because, you know, what seems to me is, like, who are the people who are using this?
[23:10.950 --> 23:12.130]  Who are the officers who are there?
[23:12.130 --> 23:13.370]  Who gives the command to use this?
[23:13.370 --> 23:14.370]  Who gives the command to use this?
[23:14.410 --> 23:15.410]  I mean, like, what are they thinking?
[23:15.410 --> 23:25.050]  And I know, you know, I've talked to police officers at times at protests who told me, you know, they said to us, they told us this morning that you were going to come out and throw bricks at our heads.
[23:25.730 --> 23:30.990]  And, you know, I was like, did the words nonviolent protest not really come up in that discussion?
[23:30.990 --> 23:33.950]  So I feel like, you know, there's a lot of room to start...
[23:33.950 --> 23:35.650]  Was that the one where somebody flung a teddy bear?
[23:36.070 --> 23:36.910]  No, no, no.
[23:37.010 --> 23:40.010]  It wasn't... That's really... Yeah, I mean, that would be really sad if that was the one.
[23:40.010 --> 23:43.050]  And I think they were charged with throwing a weapon or something.
[23:43.050 --> 23:47.210]  And then there's Kent State and, you know, the rifles with the flowers and the muzzles of them.
[23:47.250 --> 23:51.090]  And I think, you know, it's got to be a matter of talking to these folks as well.
[23:51.190 --> 23:51.690]  Hearts and minds.
[23:51.950 --> 23:52.590]  Hearts and minds.
[23:53.170 --> 24:08.770]  I feel I should point out that Bernie's foam or some sort of advanced noise-canceling headphones are probably the only way that you'd be able to avoid hearing this sort of thing because the way a lot of these things are designed is where that...
[24:08.770 --> 24:16.150]  Even if you try to cover your ears, the sound still penetrates and rings in your inner ears and there's absolutely no way to cover your ears up for that.
[24:16.330 --> 24:16.390]  Yeah.
[24:16.610 --> 24:18.370]  And you'll hear it no matter what and...
[24:18.370 --> 24:22.810]  And this is only one of many things that they are working on using against crowds.
[24:22.970 --> 24:30.370]  And they will experiment at every opportunity even though there is no cause to ever use these things and certainly not in this particular situation.
[24:30.610 --> 24:35.670]  Yeah, it really strikes me how this really gets to the root of their quote-unquote problem because why do people protest?
[24:35.830 --> 24:36.430]  Why do people assemble?
[24:36.510 --> 24:37.410]  They want to get their message out.
[24:37.490 --> 24:39.170]  They want to exercise freedom of speech.
[24:39.170 --> 24:41.350]  And, you know, this literally silences that.
[24:41.550 --> 24:45.150]  So, you know, who's to tell after the fact who was saying what?
[24:45.970 --> 24:46.270]  Absolutely.
[24:47.150 --> 24:47.770]  All right.
[24:47.990 --> 24:49.570]  Well, speaking of government...
[24:50.490 --> 25:01.430]  Yes, it's time once again for us to venture out into the world of the Internet and visit a .gov site of the week.
[25:02.310 --> 25:05.690]  .gov of the week, of course, is one of our cherished features here on Off the Hook.
[25:05.770 --> 25:12.430]  And you're welcome to write to us with your suggestions on .gov sites to explore and learn from.
[25:12.670 --> 25:15.210]  Write to us, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[25:21.300 --> 25:26.500]  And tonight's feature is a bit topical as we've had a few earthquakes.
[25:26.500 --> 25:29.780]  And this is the Earthquake Hazards Program.
[25:30.300 --> 25:36.660]  You can reach this by entering SSLEarthquake.usgs.gov.
[25:37.100 --> 25:44.580]  And what will happen there is you can sign up to actually get email alerts whenever there's an earthquake anywhere in the world.
[25:45.480 --> 25:46.080]  And...
[25:46.080 --> 25:46.360]  Sorry.
[25:46.480 --> 25:52.840]  Is this the website that has lists of earthquakes and tells you if each earthquake has been reviewed or not reviewed by a seismologist?
[25:52.840 --> 25:58.680]  You know, I didn't have time to go through the entire site, but I would imagine so, because they do have all kinds of really cool things in here.
[25:59.580 --> 26:00.460]  They have rules.
[26:00.540 --> 26:02.320]  Do not send any updates to previous notifications.
[26:02.440 --> 26:10.080]  If a new notification occurs that meets my magnitude threshold during the day, but does not meet my magnitude threshold during the night, do not send it at all.
[26:10.120 --> 26:15.480]  In other words, you can set this thing to alert you only in the daytime if there's an earthquake, but not wake you up.
[26:15.560 --> 26:20.040]  So if you sleep through an earthquake, you can be woken up to let you know that you slept through it?
[26:20.620 --> 26:22.500]  Assuming you still have power, yeah.
[26:23.260 --> 26:32.440]  And also, what I found on this site, which I thought was kind of cool, was you can look by state and see when the last earthquake was for a particular state.
[26:32.520 --> 26:36.560]  You know, in New York, the last earthquake in New York State occurred on September 23rd.
[26:36.780 --> 26:37.240]  That's right.
[26:37.320 --> 26:37.920]  It occurred...
[26:38.360 --> 26:40.480]  It was magnitude 2.4.
[26:41.920 --> 26:42.740]  And let's see.
[26:42.760 --> 26:43.240]  Where did it happen?
[26:43.240 --> 26:45.300]  That's kind of less than a truck driving by.
[26:45.520 --> 26:45.800]  Yeah.
[26:45.920 --> 26:46.400]  For the most part.
[26:46.480 --> 26:47.480]  And actually, it's funny.
[26:47.840 --> 26:51.800]  Having grown up once again in Southern California, you know what you can feel and what you can't feel.
[26:51.800 --> 26:56.620]  And I've been out in Queens for a couple of earthquakes that I could feel, and I was confused by the fact that I felt them.
[26:56.700 --> 27:01.000]  They were only twos, but Queens is built on fill, so it magnifies quakes that are around you there.
[27:01.000 --> 27:18.620]  Well, I can tell you this occurred at 345 and 59 seconds UTC at 42.82 north, 76.24 west, and a depth of 5 kilometers right by Batavia, which is near the Canadian border.
[27:18.620 --> 27:31.800]  Now, I also looked up neighboring states, and do you know that, well, New Jersey had one, 2.8 on July 1st, which was 15 kilometers south-southeast of Wilmington, Delaware, and that particular area there.
[27:31.800 --> 27:46.400]  But there have not been any earthquakes in Connecticut or various other parts of New England over 3.5 in, I think, 20, 30 years, something like that.
[27:46.480 --> 27:47.600]  That's pretty incredible.
[27:47.700 --> 27:51.780]  I don't know that we're... I mean, I've heard different things from different people about whether or not we're on big fault zones.
[27:51.780 --> 27:58.760]  But what I did hear from folks I know who work in seismology is that Manhattan, for example, is built on granite, and that is going to make it...
[27:58.760 --> 28:01.820]  So even if there is an earthquake that is smallish, you're not going to feel it as quickly.
[28:02.500 --> 28:02.780]  Emmanuel?
[28:03.000 --> 28:03.520]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[28:04.420 --> 28:05.540]  I'm sorry to interrupt you guys.
[28:05.940 --> 28:07.180]  Were you... did you want to finish what you're saying?
[28:07.240 --> 28:09.580]  I just had one more little thing that is...
[28:09.580 --> 28:16.960]  I think, actually, there may be some sort of neat opportunities if you are the sort of hacker who likes to pull feeds from various places and do things with them.
[28:16.960 --> 28:26.960]  My impression is that the USGS webpages must have some sort of feed going out as well, because I'm actually subscribed to a Twitter feed that'll tell you when there's earthquakes in the San Francisco Bay Area.
[28:27.260 --> 28:30.560]  So there's ways to get this that aren't just, you know, obviously going to your phone or going to your email.
[28:30.660 --> 28:32.680]  You can also have it sent to Twitter if you like Twitter.
[28:32.860 --> 28:38.640]  Now, I've never been in a major earthquake, but don't you know, without Twitter, that there's an earthquake going on?
[28:38.640 --> 28:39.280]  It really depends.
[28:39.500 --> 28:46.780]  I mean, if there's something that's short and fast enough, there's not a lot of aftershaking, and so you can sometimes mistake it for a sonic boom or something like that.
[28:46.780 --> 28:47.500]  Then why do you care?
[28:47.840 --> 28:50.860]  If there's an earthquake, it's like the tree in the forest, except an earthquake.
[28:51.000 --> 28:52.260]  I mean, sometimes you just are curious.
[28:52.260 --> 28:53.180]  You're like, was that an earthquake?
[28:53.220 --> 28:53.660]  Was it not?
[28:53.840 --> 28:58.100]  You know, I mean, you know, and there's no, as far as I know, there's no, is there, was that an earthquake or not?
[28:58.100 --> 28:59.400]  Yes, no websites yet.
[28:59.520 --> 28:59.880]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[29:00.240 --> 29:03.760]  There's a very good reason to want to use this service.
[29:03.760 --> 29:16.760]  If you live on a coastline that has any time in the past century or maybe longer been hit by a big wave as a result of an earthquake, you can go to this website.
[29:17.040 --> 29:18.640]  You can define an area.
[29:18.980 --> 29:32.420]  Like the people in Samoa yesterday got, you know, hundreds of people were killed in Samoa yesterday because there was an earthquake that happened maybe 15 minutes before the wave hit them.
[29:33.500 --> 29:51.040]  So if people in Samoa had known about this site and had outlined an area in the ocean that they can tell from research if there's an earthquake within this range, it's going to cause a big wave and wipe us out, they would have got a text message and they could have gone to high ground within 15 minutes and avoid being killed.
[29:51.220 --> 29:52.620]  So there is a good reason for it.
[29:52.700 --> 29:59.420]  The United States Geological Survey, excuse me, is tied into a global network of seismic sensors.
[29:59.420 --> 30:04.080]  So this is a really useful site, and I encourage people to check it out.
[30:04.280 --> 30:08.880]  It's also interesting to see where all the earthquakes have taken place in the last 24 hours.
[30:09.080 --> 30:13.160]  There was one that took place in Los Angeles today at 624 UTC.
[30:13.200 --> 30:17.340]  I think that was about 11 in the morning, 2.4 magnitude.
[30:17.760 --> 30:21.040]  There was one in Bolivia after that, one in Tonga after that.
[30:21.120 --> 30:30.620]  And beforehand, Fiji, another one in Tonga, southeast of the Loyalty Islands, wherever those are, there were two right in a row, within 10 minutes of each other.
[30:31.020 --> 30:32.700]  Again, Tonga, Samoa Islands region.
[30:32.700 --> 30:35.780]  This was after the 8.0 of earlier.
[30:36.560 --> 30:42.220]  And Central California had one at 6 in the morning, 3.0.
[30:42.460 --> 30:45.160]  New Britain region of Papua New Guinea.
[30:45.860 --> 30:47.040]  Indonesia had a couple.
[30:47.320 --> 30:53.400]  Colorado had one at, I think, 454 yesterday, 3.4.
[30:53.400 --> 30:56.180]  So there are earthquakes all the time, happening all over the place.
[30:56.240 --> 30:57.820]  It's really, it's fascinating.
[30:58.020 --> 31:03.880]  But now, you can sign up for this site, sslearthquake.usgs.gov.
[31:04.320 --> 31:05.800]  What does the SSL stand for?
[31:05.900 --> 31:06.280]  Does anybody know?
[31:06.320 --> 31:07.960]  Not Secure Socket Layer, in this case, I don't think.
[31:07.960 --> 31:08.880]  Why not?
[31:09.500 --> 31:10.440]  I assume it does.
[31:10.620 --> 31:10.920]  Maybe.
[31:11.060 --> 31:11.680]  I assumed it does.
[31:11.760 --> 31:13.340]  It's an HTTPS site, yes?
[31:13.880 --> 31:14.820]  Yes, it is, actually.
[31:15.120 --> 31:17.600]  So you have to know securely when an earthquake has hit you?
[31:17.840 --> 31:18.520]  That seems to be unique.
[31:18.520 --> 31:20.900]  You don't want imposter earthquakes sneaking in.
[31:20.900 --> 31:23.000]  I guess, I guess you don't.
[31:23.220 --> 31:25.520]  You should have some radar at your border so they don't sneak in.
[31:25.880 --> 31:31.700]  But it's funny because on the main page, I have instructions in case you want to not get this anymore.
[31:31.900 --> 31:34.020]  To unsubscribe, please log in.
[31:34.360 --> 31:37.420]  So I just thought that's kind of unusual, that you have to log in in order to unsubscribe.
[31:37.420 --> 31:39.180]  You can't just simply give your email address.
[31:39.480 --> 31:43.720]  So if you forget your password, I guess you're really kind of in bad shape.
[31:44.140 --> 31:45.500]  Okay, Earthquake Hazards Program.
[31:45.500 --> 31:49.420]  That is today's feature on .gov of the week.
[31:49.420 --> 31:55.920]  Again, if you have a .gov site you'd like to send us, by all means, OTH at 2600.com.
[31:55.920 --> 31:59.160]  We'd love to hear all the different .gov sites out there.
[31:59.240 --> 32:00.300]  And boy, there are so many.
[32:18.120 --> 32:20.580]  And the secretive U.S.
[32:21.020 --> 32:37.840]  Special Operations Command, known as SOCOM, has awarded ARMS Globocore General Dynamics a $10 million contract to set up a network of psychological warfare influence websites supporting the global war on terror.
[32:38.120 --> 32:41.200]  France and Britain are specifically included as targeted regions.
[32:42.020 --> 32:47.580]  SoCOM is principally famous for its large contingents of elite secret operatives from all four U.S.
[32:47.680 --> 32:52.160]  armed services, Navy SEALs, Green Berets, Delta Force, and... anybody?
[32:53.060 --> 32:53.180]  No?
[32:53.320 --> 32:54.840]  Team 6 slash DevGrew.
[32:55.880 --> 32:56.840]  The activity...
[32:56.840 --> 33:01.920]  The only thing I understood in that entire spiel was France and Britain are somehow involved in something.
[33:02.180 --> 33:03.480]  What's less well known...
[33:03.480 --> 33:06.320]  I don't think that article actually says that France and Britain are involved.
[33:06.500 --> 33:07.620]  If you get further down in this...
[33:07.620 --> 33:08.500]  They're targeted regions.
[33:08.500 --> 33:10.520]  Well, I don't know what that means.
[33:10.740 --> 33:13.760]  I don't necessarily know that they're targeted by this particular special ops thing.
[33:13.880 --> 33:17.380]  What it said was that they're looking for French and English speakers.
[33:17.380 --> 33:18.840]  They're not actually looking...
[33:18.840 --> 33:20.240]  There was nothing about the country in this article.
[33:20.320 --> 33:22.760]  What's less well known about the organization is that it also includes the U.S.
[33:22.820 --> 33:26.280]  force's active psychological warfare apparatus.
[33:27.340 --> 33:33.020]  Now, PSYOP, the Psychological Operations Group, the only full-time PSY war unit in the U.S.
[33:33.080 --> 33:38.820]  army, part of SOCOM, it's a dissemination of truthful information to foreign audiences in support of U.S.
[33:38.960 --> 33:39.240]  policy.
[33:39.240 --> 33:45.220]  These activities are not forms of force, but are force multipliers that use non-violent means and often violent environments.
[33:45.360 --> 33:48.400]  They rely on logic, fear, desire, or other mental factors.
[33:48.600 --> 33:50.000]  The ultimate objective of U.S.
[33:50.320 --> 33:57.360]  military psychological operations is to convince enemy, neutral, and friendly nations and forces to take action favorable to the United States.
[33:57.660 --> 34:00.920]  Their purpose can range from gaining support for U.S.
[34:01.040 --> 34:03.820]  operations to preparing the battlefield for combat.
[34:04.240 --> 34:06.200]  So, Colin Powell's famous speech to the U.N.
[34:06.240 --> 34:09.580]  is not part of this program because that was total lies.
[34:09.820 --> 34:12.700]  And this program only deals with truthful information.
[34:13.040 --> 34:13.280]  I see.
[34:13.800 --> 34:17.400]  The initiative contract goes into detail.
[34:17.540 --> 34:27.220]  Special Operations Command requires the capability to posture for rapid, on-order global dissemination of web-based influence products and tools in support of strategic and long-term U.S.
[34:27.220 --> 34:27.960]  government goals.
[34:28.200 --> 34:36.880]  Contractors will develop, design, construct, operate, and maintain a series of synchronized influence websites supporting global war on terror requirements.
[34:37.080 --> 34:41.000]  Government estimates a minimum of two and no more than 12 websites.
[34:41.260 --> 34:42.480]  This just sounds so silly.
[34:42.740 --> 34:43.200]  I just...
[34:43.200 --> 34:43.960]  This began to...
[34:43.960 --> 34:47.540]  There were a couple of things that we looked at this week, and I just sort of started to hear...
[34:47.540 --> 34:52.020]  What I heard was, PSYOPs heard that the kids these days are into the Facebook.
[34:52.280 --> 34:56.600]  Maybe if we use the Facebook, we could win hearts and minds in other countries.
[34:56.600 --> 34:57.240]  And it just...
[34:57.240 --> 34:58.080]  I was like, oh, really?
[34:58.200 --> 35:03.720]  This extends beyond, you know, education and business and other places where they're susceptible to this kind of hooey?
[35:04.200 --> 35:04.640]  Wow.
[35:04.840 --> 35:12.120]  They say, according to this article from The Register over in the UK, there are hints of unconventional web tactics different from your normal media.
[35:12.500 --> 35:21.560]  The government will require the contractor, this is a quote, to provide ghosted websites that are protected by username and password and ready to go active upon approval by SOCOM.
[35:21.840 --> 35:24.840]  So who are the targeted readers who are to be steered into supporting U.S.
[35:24.840 --> 35:26.760]  policy, in particular, the war on terror?
[35:26.960 --> 35:39.480]  A hint is given by the list of required foreign target languages, which includes obvious ones like Arabic, Urdu, Farsi, Russian, Malay, et cetera, but also French and English, British dialect, and spelling.
[35:39.920 --> 35:47.680]  There's also a suggestion that operations similar to the initiative may already be running, supporting the 24-7 multimedia campaign spoken of last year.
[35:47.680 --> 35:52.800]  And also, the government will provide the contractor with government-furnished information from any existing U.S.
[35:52.880 --> 35:55.280]  SOCOM-operated influence website strategies.
[35:56.000 --> 35:56.700]  I don't know.
[35:56.800 --> 35:57.900]  This is pretty scary.
[35:58.060 --> 35:59.480]  Can anyone translate this into English for me?
[36:00.100 --> 36:00.580]  I don't know.
[36:00.580 --> 36:02.500]  I mean, I heard that English is a requirement, but...
[36:02.940 --> 36:04.340]  I feel disenfranchised.
[36:06.140 --> 36:10.880]  The British people get the propaganda, but the American audience doesn't.
[36:11.040 --> 36:12.500]  You know, what about us?
[36:12.720 --> 36:14.040]  We're supposed to be the center of it.
[36:14.260 --> 36:16.980]  You can always forward it back to us if you get it on your end.
[36:16.980 --> 36:22.800]  I couldn't help but notice the part which said that the targets of these operations are our friends, neutral parties, and enemies.
[36:23.000 --> 36:27.320]  So, you know, even to those of you out there who like us, you're the target of our psyops.
[36:27.600 --> 36:27.920]  Absolutely.
[36:28.080 --> 36:29.500]  You gotta stay on our side, right?
[36:29.820 --> 36:30.020]  You know?
[36:30.200 --> 36:30.960]  It takes maintenance.
[36:31.300 --> 36:32.440]  Rob, you're from the internet.
[36:32.580 --> 36:33.440]  You understand the internet.
[36:33.860 --> 36:38.620]  Do you think that if they suddenly put up a website, it's suddenly magically gonna get traffic?
[36:39.860 --> 36:40.860]  That's what I wanna know.
[36:40.940 --> 36:43.740]  Like, it sounds like their understanding of the internet is kind of broken.
[36:44.020 --> 36:45.320]  If it's a ghost website...
[36:45.320 --> 36:46.420]  Well, I mean, I'll give it traffic.
[36:46.540 --> 36:46.700]  It might be cool.
[36:46.700 --> 36:50.020]  If you tell me the site, it's only gonna be between two and twelve sites.
[36:50.180 --> 36:51.140]  So, let me know what the site is.
[36:51.140 --> 36:54.040]  So, it's gonna attract paranormal specialists is what's gonna happen.
[36:54.520 --> 36:54.840]  All right.
[36:55.100 --> 36:56.800]  Well, and from there, they can...
[36:56.800 --> 36:57.460]  Bernie, go ahead.
[36:58.500 --> 37:19.980]  I think it's a waste of $10 million of our tax money for just silly propaganda that not not many people are gonna read, but along the same lines, our government has also hired another contractor to create mobile phone games to help citizens of nations that we have poor relations with,
[37:20.040 --> 37:23.280]  like mostly in the Middle East, to learn about America and its values.
[37:23.420 --> 37:23.920]  Did you know that?
[37:23.920 --> 37:25.400]  I did not know that.
[37:25.740 --> 37:26.000]  I did not know that.
[37:26.000 --> 37:26.500]  Aha, yes.
[37:26.620 --> 37:27.400]  They just, the U.S.
[37:28.160 --> 37:39.000]  State Department just awarded to a small Virginia-based startup a contract to develop mobile phone games aimed at citizens at countries that the U.S.
[37:39.020 --> 37:40.100]  doesn't get along with very well.
[37:40.400 --> 37:56.600]  And according to this article in this Davis, it says the strategy is to use the mobile phone, which even poor families own in countries such as Iran and Iraq, as a portal to learn about quintessential American trivia, our presidents, our history, and the laws that rule our land.
[37:56.780 --> 38:08.500]  And it says that the hope is to tone down the anti-American rhetoric by engaging people with a fun game, educate them with the American facts, and connect everyone in indirect dialogue through the mobile format.
[38:08.780 --> 38:17.920]  And a reporter asked someone involved with the project if it was really fair to expect an Iranian to know who Patrick Henry was.
[38:18.060 --> 38:26.880]  And the Iranian said the hope is that they'll, actually, somebody involved with the project said the hope is that they'll look up Patrick Henry and see who it is and learn from that.
[38:28.740 --> 38:36.840]  It's a silly idea, but it's an interesting, according to the contractor, it's an interesting new media approach to public diplomacy.
[38:37.240 --> 38:40.060]  Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[38:40.260 --> 38:41.480]  Join the conversation.
[38:41.920 --> 38:43.440]  And yes, go ahead, Gus.
[38:43.580 --> 38:48.160]  I just, once again, this is, the kids these days, they like the games!
[38:48.160 --> 38:58.620]  And I can't help but wonder, can't we convince the government that maybe what they need to do with kids in other countries is teach them to work from the command line and, like, sniff ports and do other sort of traditional hacker activities instead?
[38:58.980 --> 39:00.740]  Would that convince them to be more American, maybe?
[39:00.740 --> 39:04.760]  See, I do like the video games, but one thing I know about mobile phone games, they suck.
[39:05.060 --> 39:08.540]  We can't have our entire public image based on those.
[39:08.620 --> 39:13.600]  Rob, soon every iPhone owner in Afghanistan will have this game, and then you'll see.
[39:13.960 --> 39:14.820]  There's an app for that.
[39:16.840 --> 39:23.680]  Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't educational games make up a very small percentage of the successful electronic games?
[39:23.720 --> 39:24.540]  Also, they suck.
[39:25.140 --> 39:25.160]  They suck.
[39:25.160 --> 39:25.760]  Yeah, yeah.
[39:26.380 --> 39:27.720]  I've never met a game I like.
[39:27.720 --> 39:31.040]  I mean, there's a huge sort of serious games market now.
[39:31.160 --> 39:31.780]  There's huge conferences.
[39:31.900 --> 39:38.040]  Because there's actually, you know, a lot of games that are being produced to actually train the military, train, you know, first responders in emergencies and things like that.
[39:38.120 --> 39:42.200]  And, you know, that sort of shades over into business games and educational games.
[39:42.460 --> 39:43.160]  Why aren't there more like that?
[39:43.240 --> 39:44.220]  Why aren't there more games like that?
[39:44.320 --> 39:51.220]  I see all the games about bombing countries and things like that, but I never see a game about rescuing somebody who's injured or in a fire or something like that.
[39:51.240 --> 39:53.940]  How about a game showing people how to load a truck or something?
[39:53.940 --> 39:57.620]  I mean, just things that really get you into another type of skill.
[39:57.800 --> 39:58.500]  What about with movies?
[39:58.500 --> 39:59.720]  For one thing, they're not that compelling.
[39:59.920 --> 40:03.280]  I mean, they're not necessarily all that compelling for, you know, a commercial market.
[40:03.880 --> 40:09.900]  For another thing, there's sort of this sort of interesting tension in the games industry between game developers and education people.
[40:10.240 --> 40:12.580]  You go to a developer and say, I want to make an educational game.
[40:12.580 --> 40:14.440]  And they say, education sucks the fun out of everything.
[40:14.680 --> 40:18.460]  And then you go to educators and they're like, you're going to suck all the learning out of everything if you do games.
[40:18.580 --> 40:22.900]  So there's this, you know, there's really never, there's not that much happy middle ground there.
[40:23.180 --> 40:23.800]  Oregon Trail.
[40:25.020 --> 40:28.060]  Yeah, but that's just happy middle ground in our memories.
[40:28.080 --> 40:29.060]  What is Oregon Trail?
[40:29.200 --> 40:32.300]  Oregon Trail is this game that...
[40:32.300 --> 40:36.060]  When I was in elementary school, everyone loved to play it.
[40:36.140 --> 40:37.840]  And I suppose it was education.
[40:37.900 --> 40:39.480]  Because you got diphtheria.
[40:39.620 --> 40:41.920]  What's the purpose of it?
[40:41.920 --> 40:45.160]  You were basically going across the Oregon Trail and...
[40:45.160 --> 40:46.460]  You were walking or something in a game?
[40:46.560 --> 40:48.500]  You had to buy oxen and everything.
[40:48.600 --> 40:50.360]  It was to text-based games sort of at the time.
[40:50.700 --> 40:51.020]  No, graphics.
[40:51.060 --> 40:53.860]  But it didn't show you walking and it didn't show the...
[40:53.860 --> 40:54.540]  It was not animated.
[40:54.620 --> 40:56.700]  You just see a picture of somebody dying from a snake bite.
[40:56.840 --> 40:57.000]  Yeah.
[40:57.180 --> 40:58.240]  Oh, I could get into that.
[40:58.320 --> 40:58.860]  Yeah, it's pretty cool.
[40:58.960 --> 41:02.200]  I don't really remember learning anything in that game.
[41:02.940 --> 41:04.760]  The mechanic was kind of complicated.
[41:05.120 --> 41:13.200]  All right, now speaking of development and new things, there's this thing called Google Wave, which I believe is just starting right now.
[41:14.360 --> 41:22.540]  And I'm told that .red, you're one of the 100,000 people that somehow is involved in developing this or playing with it or something like that.
[41:22.540 --> 41:24.320]  First of all, what is this thing?
[41:24.580 --> 41:27.360]  Is anybody else in the room part of this whole experiment?
[41:27.580 --> 41:27.680]  No?
[41:27.840 --> 41:28.360]  Okay, go ahead.
[41:28.520 --> 41:29.320]  Tell us what you know.
[41:29.560 --> 41:31.320]  I'm surprised that I was even part of this.
[41:31.440 --> 41:32.780]  I didn't know it was only 100,000.
[41:32.940 --> 41:33.760]  I kind of thought that...
[41:33.760 --> 41:34.320]  That's what I read.
[41:34.640 --> 41:35.560]  But I could be wrong.
[41:36.380 --> 41:37.400]  Well, Google Wave...
[41:38.160 --> 41:39.340]  It's going to revolutionize everything.
[41:39.460 --> 41:40.040]  Well, supposedly.
[41:40.060 --> 41:41.080]  We'll see about that.
[41:41.080 --> 41:51.080]  But what it is is basically you have collaborative documents, so to speak, where any person who's made a participant of this document can edit it.
[41:51.160 --> 41:53.760]  So it's sort of like any collaborative document, rich text.
[41:55.500 --> 41:55.820]  And...
[41:55.820 --> 41:56.700]  Can't you do that now?
[41:56.920 --> 41:57.840]  Yeah, you can do that now.
[41:57.860 --> 42:02.480]  But one of the things that's different about it is, okay, so first of all, you have collaborative documents that you can do over the web.
[42:02.640 --> 42:04.880]  But you can already do that with Google Docs.
[42:04.960 --> 42:05.160]  Right.
[42:05.160 --> 42:09.200]  What they're doing is also any changes made are made live.
[42:09.480 --> 42:15.000]  So if you're editing a document and someone else is editing it with you, they'll see the edits being done.
[42:16.900 --> 42:20.880]  Changes can be organized into things they call blips, which are basically like messages.
[42:21.120 --> 42:22.880]  So you can have a threaded conversation.
[42:23.100 --> 42:26.680]  So you can have it function as if it's email.
[42:27.180 --> 42:31.300]  And since it's real time, it kind of can work as an instant messenger.
[42:31.560 --> 42:35.980]  So it's Etherpad with the full force of the Google Marketing machine behind it.
[42:36.660 --> 42:38.740]  And you say you didn't understand what I said before.
[42:38.880 --> 42:39.800]  It wasn't God's name to that name.
[42:40.180 --> 42:41.340]  Etherpad is a thing.
[42:41.540 --> 42:43.980]  You can go online, etherpad.com or something.
[42:44.160 --> 42:48.940]  You go and you can do what .ret just said, but without all the marketing.
[42:49.220 --> 42:50.160]  Well, one of the other...
[42:50.160 --> 42:54.080]  Can you do images and does it tie in other things like IM and stuff like that, videos?
[42:54.100 --> 42:54.540]  I don't know.
[42:54.940 --> 43:06.680]  One of the other things that was different about it is, since it's basically like taking threaded conversations and extending it, if somebody posts a message on what they're called waves.
[43:06.860 --> 43:15.660]  So if somebody starts a wave and I'm included in the wave and they put a blip of some whatever topic it is and I make a reply, they don't have to just reply to my blip.
[43:15.780 --> 43:20.940]  They can literally make little sub blips inside of my message and reply to each individual point.
[43:21.980 --> 43:22.380]  Okay.
[43:22.540 --> 43:24.540]  It sounds like a certain type of hell to me, but I don't know.
[43:24.680 --> 43:26.820]  Maybe I'm just a little bit wary of these things.
[43:28.260 --> 43:29.780]  The question is that somebody...
[43:29.780 --> 43:34.260]  Some writer that I saw today raised was that there may be a bit of a learning curve on this one.
[43:34.340 --> 43:36.440]  It sounds like there's a lot of new stuff to it.
[43:36.880 --> 43:45.480]  And then, yeah, I mean, there is just sort of this massive Google hype behind it and it all seems to sort of, once again, be the kids these days, they don't like the email.
[43:45.880 --> 43:46.980]  So, you know, that's just...
[43:47.880 --> 43:53.720]  Well, if it said Microsoft Wave, I think we'd be talking differently than if we say Google Wave.
[43:53.720 --> 43:55.660]  They have a similar system in the office.
[43:55.660 --> 43:57.200]  But because it's Google Wave, it's cool.
[43:57.360 --> 43:59.360]  But if Microsoft Wave would be corporate and evil.
[43:59.460 --> 43:59.900]  Good point.
[44:00.220 --> 44:14.400]  The way they talk about it, and from what I see, you could say it has a lot of potential, but there's some things that I've yet to see which would actually make this system, in my opinion, work ideally.
[44:15.540 --> 44:24.680]  I haven't checked it for a few weeks, but last I checked, the creator of a wave can't institute any sort of control policies on how much editing is allowed to be done.
[44:24.680 --> 44:33.940]  And, you know, because in all situations, you don't necessarily want people to have complete control over this because I forgot to mention, but anybody can edit anything.
[44:34.120 --> 44:38.720]  So if I post a message on a wave, you could literally change what I said.
[44:38.860 --> 44:39.260]  Oh, nice.
[44:39.420 --> 44:43.660]  So if I had spelling errors, yeah, you could fix it, but that doesn't work in all situations.
[44:43.660 --> 44:53.080]  And in this so-called sophisticated or well-behaved developers, you're already seeing some problems.
[44:54.360 --> 44:55.980]  I imagine a few fights, too.
[44:56.480 --> 44:57.660]  I haven't seen too many.
[44:57.880 --> 45:03.060]  To be honest with you, I have not seen the traffic of 100,000 people, but I'll just have faith that it's there.
[45:03.420 --> 45:04.160]  Well, okay.
[45:04.560 --> 45:08.940]  Is Google paying us to regurgitate their propaganda, or are we doing it for free?
[45:09.480 --> 45:10.320]  What do you think?
[45:10.320 --> 45:15.860]  Well, it would be against the rules if they were paying us, but...
[45:15.860 --> 45:18.880]  Maybe during our next drive, they can make a nice donation.
[45:19.160 --> 45:19.900]  Well, this is the problem.
[45:20.040 --> 45:21.980]  I mean, do we have an open-source equivalent, Mike?
[45:22.580 --> 45:23.300]  I don't know.
[45:24.160 --> 45:25.200]  I still don't know what it does.
[45:25.200 --> 45:25.620]  This is supposed to be open-source.
[45:26.280 --> 45:27.040]  It's the question.
[45:27.560 --> 45:28.080]  It's supposed to be open-source.
[45:28.080 --> 45:30.240]  It does everything, and it does it in a way that makes...
[45:30.240 --> 45:30.720]  It slices, it dices.
[45:30.800 --> 45:36.400]  Yeah, it makes email and aim and all that completely extinct.
[45:36.640 --> 45:38.280]  Yes, and it's a fluorescent dessert topping.
[45:40.320 --> 45:53.860]  They want to make it open-source, and supposedly they want to, after designing their entire system, they're going to put the source code for the whole system on, so that way competitors can just rip off their source code and immediately pop up with a working Wave system.
[45:54.020 --> 45:54.260]  They want...
[45:54.260 --> 46:01.700]  We're the only person that still uses ASCII email, that just likes to save the text, doesn't have all kinds of graphics and videos and things like that.
[46:02.520 --> 46:08.360]  Everyone's using Gmail and all kinds of graphic-based email systems.
[46:08.360 --> 46:11.040]  The technology manual is like 15 years old by now.
[46:11.160 --> 46:12.300]  I know, and it never appealed.
[46:12.300 --> 46:13.420]  It didn't appeal to me then.
[46:13.660 --> 46:16.580]  I mean, which, the graphic or the text?
[46:16.720 --> 46:18.800]  No, HTML email is at least 10 years old.
[46:18.900 --> 46:19.080]  Oh, I know.
[46:19.180 --> 46:20.080]  I've always hated it.
[46:20.320 --> 46:23.660]  See, that's part of the criticism against email as it is right now.
[46:23.800 --> 46:27.860]  It's basically, in their words, it's just an extension of snail mail.
[46:28.820 --> 46:29.940]  I like snail mail too.
[46:29.960 --> 46:35.440]  But their whole idea was basically saying, if email were to be invented today with today's technology, what would it look like?
[46:35.700 --> 46:37.680]  And this is kind of what they're coming up with.
[46:37.680 --> 46:40.580]  My concern is more that it's, I mean, it may be open source.
[46:40.820 --> 46:43.320]  It may be, you know, there may be the opportunity to get there.
[46:43.400 --> 46:50.080]  But when you were doing ASCII email and a lot of the times, you know, using things from the command line, you were closer to understanding how the machine worked.
[46:50.220 --> 46:54.060]  And the further we get into these technologies that are like, they do all these things for you and they're all connected.
[46:54.180 --> 46:54.800]  I think...
[46:54.800 --> 46:55.680]  We don't have to think as much.
[46:55.880 --> 47:03.360]  You're closer to understanding what the person's trying to say to you too because it's not obscured by all these gimmicks and flashy lights and things like that.
[47:03.360 --> 47:04.540]  You're just reading the words.
[47:04.540 --> 47:06.160]  And I don't think we do that enough anymore.
[47:06.440 --> 47:21.500]  Since I'm assuming I'm the only person who's seen the demo for Google Wave online, the YouTube video in this room, they kind of had an alternative client for Wave which was entirely text ASCII.
[47:21.680 --> 47:21.900]  Really?
[47:22.080 --> 47:22.340]  Oh yeah.
[47:22.500 --> 47:30.680]  I'm just kind of ODing on Google's PR machine because like, they've just celebrated their 11th birthday and in all that time, every single time they've come out with something.
[47:30.800 --> 47:33.380]  It's, this is going to revolutionize the way you use this part of the internet.
[47:33.520 --> 47:35.480]  This is going to revolutionize the way you use the internet at all.
[47:35.640 --> 47:41.380]  And I'm sure when they refill the toilet paper in their employee bathrooms, it's going to revolutionize the way you use the toilet because it does.
[47:41.500 --> 47:42.640]  Have you ever seen what people do in there?
[47:42.920 --> 47:46.540]  And that, Rob, is the job of a PR machine to say that.
[47:46.640 --> 47:52.360]  But what is strangely odd is that the mass media and apparently us on this radio program just repeat that verbatim.
[47:52.580 --> 47:52.740]  Oh please.
[47:53.060 --> 47:53.380]  That's the weird part.
[47:53.520 --> 47:55.280]  Mike, we are critiquing them.
[47:55.460 --> 47:57.780]  We are not just blindly reading press releases.
[47:57.780 --> 47:59.340]  So, spare me that.
[48:00.480 --> 48:02.120]  212-209-2900.
[48:02.240 --> 48:02.560]  Good evening.
[48:02.560 --> 48:04.200]  You're on off the hook.
[48:04.840 --> 48:05.320]  Hello.
[48:05.700 --> 48:05.940]  Yes.
[48:06.040 --> 48:06.780]  Where are you calling from?
[48:07.340 --> 48:11.560]  I'm calling from Route 287 in New Jersey.
[48:11.740 --> 48:12.100]  Oh wow.
[48:12.180 --> 48:12.700]  Well be careful.
[48:12.920 --> 48:14.200]  And I hope you're talking legally.
[48:14.700 --> 48:15.360]  I am indeed.
[48:15.520 --> 48:16.480]  Both hands are on the wheels.
[48:16.640 --> 48:16.940]  Okay.
[48:17.180 --> 48:17.920]  What's on your mind?
[48:18.860 --> 48:25.200]  There is, I believe, it's open source but it's a collaborative editing environment that's centered sort of around Firefox.
[48:26.160 --> 48:26.320]  Mm-hmm.
[48:27.620 --> 48:28.240]  Called what?
[48:28.540 --> 48:29.260]  B-E-S-P-I-N.
[48:29.680 --> 48:31.300]  I'm sorry, I totally stepped on you.
[48:31.340 --> 48:31.800]  Say that again?
[48:32.140 --> 48:34.380]  Okay, it's B-E-S-P-I-N.
[48:35.040 --> 48:39.980]  It's a collaborative editing environment mostly for source code I believe.
[48:40.380 --> 48:40.640]  Mm-hmm.
[48:42.400 --> 48:46.560]  Additionally, on the non-lethal quote-unquote weapons front.
[48:46.820 --> 48:47.520]  Yeah, quote-unquote.
[48:49.520 --> 48:51.380]  Well, it's not lethal until it kills them.
[48:51.700 --> 48:52.440]  And it will.
[48:52.780 --> 48:54.020]  Just like tasers do.
[48:54.020 --> 48:54.400]  as well.
[48:55.330 --> 49:01.880]  The Lady Ada has come out with what's called the Bedazzler.
[49:02.200 --> 49:16.560]  It doesn't affix rhinestones to things but it's a work-alike I assume of a Department of Homeland Security item known as the Dazzler which they spent a million dollars researching.
[49:17.020 --> 49:23.060]  But it's alternating flashing lights of different colors that apparently makes you feel ill.
[49:25.020 --> 49:25.340]  Wow.
[49:25.820 --> 49:26.140]  Good.
[49:26.700 --> 49:27.020]  Well...
[49:27.020 --> 49:28.420]  I'm glad she's on our side.
[49:29.340 --> 49:30.160]  I really am.
[49:31.220 --> 49:32.000]  Okay, anything else?
[49:32.620 --> 49:35.020]  Um, not that I can think of.
[49:35.180 --> 49:35.420]  All right.
[49:35.480 --> 49:36.500]  Well, thanks for listening.
[49:36.560 --> 49:37.140]  You drive safely.
[49:37.540 --> 49:37.860]  Excellent.
[49:37.980 --> 49:38.260]  I am.
[49:38.380 --> 49:38.640]  Thank you.
[49:38.720 --> 49:38.920]  All right.
[49:38.920 --> 49:39.280]  Take care.
[49:39.660 --> 49:41.460]  212-209-2900.
[49:41.660 --> 49:41.980]  Good evening.
[49:42.300 --> 49:42.980]  You're on off hook.
[49:43.980 --> 49:44.540]  How are you doing?
[49:44.900 --> 49:53.020]  Um, early on your show we were talking about the seismic the website the website that puts up the seismic event.
[49:53.160 --> 49:53.660]  Indeed we were.
[49:53.660 --> 49:53.920]  Yes.
[49:54.260 --> 49:54.760]  Yes.
[49:54.980 --> 49:56.860]  Um, there's a nice program that I have.
[49:56.980 --> 49:58.180]  I've had for over seven years.
[49:58.360 --> 49:59.680]  It's called Earth Browser.
[49:59.820 --> 50:00.920]  I use it on my Apple.
[50:01.600 --> 50:12.060]  And it shows not just seismic events all over the world, but it also shows weather anomalies like tornadoes, hurricanes, it tracks them, forest fires.
[50:12.360 --> 50:18.140]  You even have all the ocean buoys so you can click on them and see the temperature in any given area in the ocean.
[50:18.860 --> 50:19.300]  Wow.
[50:19.300 --> 50:23.340]  It's a very nice program and it almost looks like Google Earth.
[50:23.520 --> 50:26.380]  You can zoom in, it's a topographical map of the planet.
[50:26.680 --> 50:29.400]  It shows cloud formations and satellites passing.
[50:29.520 --> 50:30.580]  It's a really nice program.
[50:30.760 --> 50:31.620]  It's called Earth Browser?
[50:32.500 --> 50:33.220]  Earth Browser.
[50:33.360 --> 50:34.700]  And how long have you had it for?
[50:35.260 --> 50:36.480]  About seven years now.
[50:36.580 --> 50:36.780]  Wow.
[50:37.520 --> 50:39.840]  I've been using this way before Google Earth was around.
[50:40.820 --> 50:41.400]  Very cool.
[50:41.520 --> 50:42.240]  Well, we'll look into it.
[50:42.320 --> 50:43.480]  Maybe that'll be the next big thing.
[50:43.860 --> 50:44.020]  Yeah.
[50:44.180 --> 50:45.040]  And it's very inexpensive.
[50:45.220 --> 50:48.080]  I don't know if they have a Windows version, but I always use it.
[50:48.180 --> 50:51.320]  I keep it on in the background on my screen so I can see what's going on.
[50:51.380 --> 50:51.760]  That's good.
[50:51.900 --> 50:56.460]  It's good to watch the planet and make sure there's no illegal aliens running across the border and things like that.
[50:56.600 --> 50:57.760]  And it doesn't do that.
[50:59.640 --> 51:02.820]  It does have access to webcams all over the area.
[51:02.940 --> 51:03.940]  Uh-oh, maybe it can do that.
[51:03.940 --> 51:04.880]  You can look at webcams anywhere on the planet.
[51:05.000 --> 51:05.240]  Uh-huh.
[51:05.380 --> 51:06.540]  Well, that's always fun.
[51:06.680 --> 51:07.140]  That's always fun.
[51:07.160 --> 51:09.900]  I like to set up webcams and watch trains go by in foreign countries.
[51:09.960 --> 51:10.940]  I think that's kind of cool.
[51:11.020 --> 51:12.800]  If anyone has any addresses for those, let me know.
[51:12.820 --> 51:14.000]  Don't let Septa know you do that.
[51:14.000 --> 51:14.760]  Yeah, that's right.
[51:14.860 --> 51:15.460]  Septa might be upset.
[51:15.600 --> 51:16.500]  Thanks for that call.
[51:16.800 --> 51:17.940]  Let's see who else is out there.
[51:18.080 --> 51:18.420]  Good evening.
[51:18.600 --> 51:19.340]  You're on off the hook.
[51:19.740 --> 51:20.340]  Yeah, that's right.
[51:20.600 --> 51:20.960]  Hello?
[51:21.220 --> 51:21.820]  Hi, how you doing?
[51:22.400 --> 51:23.160]  Can I get on?
[51:23.280 --> 51:24.260]  You're on the air right now.
[51:25.080 --> 51:25.320]  Great.
[51:25.860 --> 51:26.400]  What's on your mind?
[51:26.460 --> 51:26.780]  Turn off the radio.
[51:27.100 --> 51:28.160]  Yes, turn your radio down.
[51:30.340 --> 51:30.980]  Okay, you ready?
[51:31.060 --> 51:31.340]  Go ahead.
[51:32.940 --> 51:35.020]  Hey, I watched the Google...
[51:35.020 --> 51:37.380]  I watched the YouTube video.
[51:38.140 --> 51:41.580]  Okay, the one with the siren or the horrible noise.
[51:41.760 --> 51:42.400]  Is that what you mean?
[51:42.560 --> 51:43.080]  Oh, you mean...
[51:43.080 --> 51:44.740]  Oh, you're talking about the Google Wave video.
[51:45.600 --> 51:46.220]  Yep, I did.
[51:46.340 --> 51:48.680]  I watched the whole hour and 12 minutes of it.
[51:49.280 --> 51:52.980]  Well, I sure hope you're not talking about the crazy siren if it was an hour and 12 minutes.
[51:53.280 --> 51:53.520]  Okay.
[51:53.880 --> 51:55.280]  I just have a question.
[51:55.380 --> 52:00.260]  I don't understand how I'm going to be able to use that with my Commodore 64 computer.
[52:00.500 --> 52:02.120]  Yeah, that's a big question out there.
[52:02.460 --> 52:04.520]  They kind of weren't having the Commodore in mind.
[52:04.520 --> 52:09.880]  They were talking about email messaging systems being created with modern...
[52:09.880 --> 52:13.700]  Yeah, and Texas Instruments and Amiga, they have some patches for those as well.
[52:14.600 --> 52:17.080]  We haven't forgotten about those people out there.
[52:17.300 --> 52:18.700]  There's certainly a significant number.
[52:18.860 --> 52:20.120]  I think they want to put that on their phone.
[52:20.240 --> 52:20.560]  Good evening.
[52:20.720 --> 52:21.540]  You're on off the hook.
[52:21.900 --> 52:22.620]  Yes, good evening.
[52:22.900 --> 52:30.720]  I would like to find out when shall I start getting my 2600 magazine and my T-shirt which I pledged in August.
[52:30.720 --> 52:32.960]  If you pledged in August, it's going to be a little while to come.
[52:33.060 --> 52:40.600]  We're working on the May drive right now and what we're doing for the May drive is verifying that people paid and then we're sending that right out.
[52:40.600 --> 52:43.020]  So, August drive, that's going to come after the May drive.
[52:43.160 --> 52:45.920]  It was only last month so you've got to give us a little bit of time.
[52:46.120 --> 52:46.640]  Uh-huh.
[52:46.780 --> 52:47.080]  All right.
[52:47.240 --> 52:48.480]  Shall I get it this year?
[52:48.640 --> 52:49.560]  Oh, you will get it this year.
[52:49.620 --> 52:50.560]  I'm certain of that.
[52:50.880 --> 52:51.880]  Assuming you paid your pledge.
[52:52.020 --> 52:52.700]  You did pay your pledge, right?
[52:52.700 --> 52:53.220]  Of course.
[52:53.220 --> 52:54.400]  It's a credit card.
[52:54.500 --> 52:54.660]  Okay.
[52:54.780 --> 52:56.560]  Some people complain and they don't even pay their pledge.
[52:57.300 --> 53:02.420]  I don't know what goes through their head but yes, we are working on all of that and we thank everybody for their patience.
[53:02.680 --> 53:08.600]  If you pledge during the winter fundraiser, you should have your stuff by now.
[53:08.720 --> 53:15.960]  If you did not get your premiums from the winter, that is January or February, one of those, write to us O-T-H at 2600.com.
[53:16.640 --> 53:16.960]  Okay.
[53:17.160 --> 53:18.000]  Let's take another phone call.
[53:18.660 --> 53:19.140]  Good evening.
[53:19.540 --> 53:20.280]  You're on Off the Hook.
[53:20.280 --> 53:21.180]  Hi, how are you doing?
[53:22.380 --> 53:27.380]  Democracy Now has been covering the Pittsburgh just browse...
[53:27.380 --> 53:28.080]  Oh, of course.
[53:28.280 --> 53:31.860]  When I say the media is not covering it, of course, I'm excluding Democracy Now because they...
[53:31.860 --> 53:33.000]  It's called a sound cannon.
[53:33.220 --> 53:34.060]  Yes, sound cannon.
[53:34.220 --> 53:35.900]  And they used it, the U.S.
[53:36.080 --> 53:41.660]  military used it on civilians in Fallujah and somewhere else that I can't remember.
[53:41.740 --> 53:46.340]  Yeah, that's where they really tested in the battlefield but then they also tested on the population here in the States sometimes.
[53:46.580 --> 53:48.000]  Who were protesting peacefully.
[53:48.280 --> 53:48.560]  Mm-hmm.
[53:48.940 --> 54:06.040]  And, um, it's illegal to use that psyops propaganda in the United States but they found an interesting way, one of the ways to get around it was, uh, picking newspapers allegedly, accidentally picking up stories that the U.S.
[54:06.900 --> 54:10.320]  planted that were false overseas and they got picked up here.
[54:10.320 --> 54:12.220]  and all this throughout the year.
[54:12.580 --> 54:12.660]  Bye.
[54:13.020 --> 54:13.260]  All right.
[54:13.380 --> 54:15.040]  Thanks, uh, thanks for, uh, your call.
[54:16.000 --> 54:18.040]  212-209-2900.
[54:18.520 --> 54:19.240]  Good evening.
[54:19.420 --> 54:20.100]  You're on Off the Hook.
[54:21.360 --> 54:31.300]  Uh, hello, uh, yeah, I was just, uh, calling about the whole using propaganda through American values in video games or specifically.
[54:32.180 --> 54:32.700]  Yeah.
[54:33.420 --> 54:37.600]  The Oregon trail reference gives up to a terrorist.
[54:38.040 --> 54:39.640]  What do you think he's going to do?
[54:39.800 --> 54:44.120]  He's going to want to get back to the game or make you die of desentary?
[54:45.520 --> 54:47.800]  That's a frightening thought right there.
[54:49.020 --> 54:52.300]  Yeah, I just thought, you know, what the heck?
[54:52.420 --> 54:54.000]  It's useless.
[54:54.440 --> 54:56.680]  And just want to see if you thought you'd agree.
[54:57.180 --> 54:58.300]  Well, what do you guys say?
[54:59.360 --> 55:01.120]  Uh, I think it's it.
[55:01.300 --> 55:04.840]  I think that obviously we know what you're going to say, but, uh, what do you guys say?
[55:05.380 --> 55:10.100]  I say if you don't pay the local guide to float your, uh, carriage across the river, then the terrorists win.
[55:11.620 --> 55:12.780]  I've got to play this game.
[55:13.140 --> 55:13.680]  You do.
[55:13.980 --> 55:14.300]  All right.
[55:14.720 --> 55:15.420]  Thanks for that call.
[55:15.540 --> 55:16.380]  Let's see who else is out there.
[55:16.480 --> 55:16.800]  Good evening.
[55:16.920 --> 55:17.660]  You're on off the hook.
[55:18.900 --> 55:19.520]  Speak up.
[55:20.100 --> 55:20.920]  Hey, how are you?
[55:21.120 --> 55:21.920]  Great show as usual.
[55:22.220 --> 55:22.420]  Thank you.
[55:22.700 --> 55:28.700]  Um, my comment about Google and the super collider that sits behind their PR department would be this.
[55:28.900 --> 55:29.220]  Okay.
[55:29.300 --> 55:40.580]  Don't laugh about the toilet paper in the men's rooms because the way we're going, not only will there be an embedded browser in the dispenser itself, but I'm sure that pretty soon there'll be an embedded browser in each roll of toilet paper.
[55:40.720 --> 55:42.620]  So, you know, they'll be able to just tap everything.
[55:42.820 --> 55:43.400]  Oh, boy.
[55:43.540 --> 55:46.680]  I'm sure it'll talk to you, ask you how your day was, and then give you a toilet paper.
[55:46.900 --> 55:49.300]  Microsoft would be like, are you sure you wouldn't like three-ply?
[55:51.300 --> 55:52.220]  And good evening.
[55:52.420 --> 55:53.140]  You're on off the hook.
[55:54.280 --> 55:54.640]  Hello.
[55:55.000 --> 55:55.680]  Yeah, speak up, please.
[55:56.140 --> 55:56.940]  Oh, yes.
[55:57.060 --> 56:07.100]  Um, I just want to tell you, if you can't print something and you copy and paste it into WordPerfect, it really does the job and you don't lose those borders.
[56:07.920 --> 56:08.620]  Um, okay.
[56:08.620 --> 56:10.620]  That's my story and I'm not going to change it.
[56:10.720 --> 56:11.080]  All right.
[56:11.260 --> 56:14.480]  Well, don't change it on our account, but thanks for that.
[56:14.720 --> 56:18.060]  You can do that, but you have to notice in advance that it didn't print properly.
[56:18.720 --> 56:20.480]  Wait, you want to explain that a little better?
[56:20.700 --> 56:26.700]  Sure, if the printer, at the beginning of the show you mentioned that a story you had printed out didn't print properly.
[56:26.820 --> 56:28.380]  Oh, that's what that was in reference to.
[56:28.440 --> 56:29.760]  I'm sorry, that was so long ago.
[56:30.140 --> 56:31.760]  And so he was providing a solution.
[56:31.820 --> 56:34.040]  Well, yeah, but am I going to have to do that for every single web page I visit?
[56:34.040 --> 56:34.660]  Yes, you are.
[56:34.740 --> 56:35.360]  Yes, you are.
[56:35.560 --> 56:36.220]  My goodness.
[56:36.340 --> 56:37.520]  All right, one last call.
[56:37.620 --> 56:38.040]  Good evening.
[56:38.100 --> 56:39.140]  You're on Off the Hook.
[56:40.340 --> 56:40.700]  Hi.
[56:40.920 --> 56:41.160]  Hi.
[56:41.700 --> 56:43.400]  Oh, am I on the air now?
[56:43.560 --> 56:44.240]  Yes, you're on the air.
[56:44.320 --> 56:44.700]  Make it fast.
[56:45.560 --> 56:54.460]  I just had a quick comment regarding the police in Philadelphia and the surveillance cameras, the person, the man, or the two men who were taking pictures.
[56:54.580 --> 56:55.220]  Yes, on the subway, yes.
[56:55.280 --> 56:58.940]  I went to college in Philadelphia in the 80s, late 80s, and I was a photography major.
[56:59.420 --> 57:07.940]  And there are like five colleges in Philadelphia that have photography programs, art programs, and the whole city is crawling with photography students.
[57:09.200 --> 57:14.460]  Yeah, and I imagine potential prisoners if they get caught.
[57:14.740 --> 57:14.880]  Yeah, exactly.
[57:14.940 --> 57:17.100]  Someone should really inform the police about that, I guess.
[57:17.300 --> 57:19.580]  Again, I think everybody should go down there and start taking pictures.
[57:19.700 --> 57:20.220]  I really...
[57:20.220 --> 57:21.000]  I'll do it myself.
[57:21.200 --> 57:21.500]  I mean...
[57:21.500 --> 57:27.880]  I was all over town in everything, in the train stations and, you know, all kinds of offices and things, taking pictures.
[57:27.980 --> 57:31.740]  I mean, we had to take pictures of different types of lighting situations all the time.
[57:31.820 --> 57:36.340]  Yeah, we can't let ourselves be intimidated into not doing things that are perfectly okay for us to do.
[57:38.040 --> 57:42.120]  Demonstrating, challenging authority, taking pictures, whatever.
[57:42.700 --> 57:44.300]  Talking about whatever is on your mind.
[57:44.540 --> 57:47.800]  Okay, we're out of time and we're going to go out with another computer-related song.
[57:47.920 --> 57:48.480]  We've played this before.
[57:48.480 --> 57:49.320]  It's one of our favorites.
[57:49.540 --> 57:51.020]  We'll be back again next week.
[57:51.240 --> 57:52.740]  OTH at 2600.com.
[57:52.840 --> 57:54.280]  Stay tuned for the personal computer folks.
[57:54.780 --> 57:55.100]  Good night.
[57:59.510 --> 58:06.350]  When I have a brand new PC I'll run Linux, not MS Word.
[58:07.850 --> 58:36.710]  Ergonomically free and easy I enjoy being a nerd Whenever I have to reboot my sysadmin says not a word As user I urge You're listening to WBAI I enjoy being a nerd I click on the mouse when I get lonely I chat with those strangers on the net.
[58:37.090 --> 58:44.210]  I lurk and I wonder if I'm only web searching for the life I'll never get.
[58:45.090 --> 58:48.330]  A net surfing Unix guru.
[58:48.870 --> 58:52.010]  I run with the website herd.
[58:52.810 --> 58:56.190]  I'll send all my gift files to you.
[58:56.190 --> 58:59.370]  I enjoy being a nerd.
[58:59.370 --> 59:07.010]  I lust for your high-speed cable modem and 500 megabytes of RAM.
[59:07.710 --> 59:11.410]  I'll turn all your floppies into hard ones.
[59:11.630 --> 59:14.870]  That's exactly the kind of scuzzy girl I am.
[59:15.190 --> 59:29.870]  I'm simply an e-male, female, and my future I hope will be Dialed in with a guy who'll be male who enjoys being absurd.
[59:30.410 --> 59:38.290]  Having a nerd like A digital girl in an analog world.
[59:38.290 --> 59:41.350]  I enjoy being a nerd.
[59:43.070 --> 59:46.570]  Oh, I know who he dedicated that song to.
[59:47.450 --> 59:53.050]  I don't want to mention any names, but might be some people I know.
[59:54.390 --> 59:59.290]  If the shoe fits, buy boots and sandals.
[59:59.290 --> 59:59.290]  day build early again.
[59:59.290 --> 59:59.390]  But that means don't take the... happening on top of the road, so I must say then that's what we need thereafter.
[59:59.390 --> 59:59.510]  Or maybe they lose there with the help from the group that helps us to the utilise together.
[59:59.510 --> 59:59.690]  I 11th of days I've become a native ale for the system that helps.
[59:59.850 --> 01:00:00.250]  So I think that's