[00:00.000 --> 00:04.680]  They say if you repeat something three times, then one will remember it.
[00:05.060 --> 00:13.140]  So, First Voices Indigenous Radio, Thursdays on WBAI, New York, Pacifica Radio, 99.5 FM.
[00:13.540 --> 00:15.340]  It's a privilege to be here.
[00:18.280 --> 00:24.040]  You're tuned to Hi-Fi, WBAI 99.5 on your FM dial, New York.
[00:24.320 --> 00:29.520]  Okay, this is Joe Franklin broadcasting on radio station WBAI.
[00:29.520 --> 00:36.260]  It's 99.5% all-natural and preservative-free, WBAI-FM in New York.
[00:36.480 --> 00:38.080]  I love this radio station.
[00:40.400 --> 00:47.460]  And it is 7 o'clock here on a Wednesday night where all kinds of weird sounds are happening.
[00:47.760 --> 00:49.820]  Yeah, time for Off the Hook.
[00:56.070 --> 01:00.630]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:01.630 --> 01:06.050]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:06.810 --> 01:08.870]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:15.010 --> 01:16.850]  I hope that's understood.
[01:17.030 --> 01:17.830]  One diddly, boo!
[02:45.170 --> 02:46.350]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:46.470 --> 02:48.130]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:48.210 --> 02:51.410]  Emmanuel Godstain here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:51.550 --> 02:54.150]  Joined tonight by RedHack.
[02:54.270 --> 02:54.530]  Hello.
[02:55.390 --> 02:56.010]  And DotRet.
[02:56.350 --> 02:56.790]  Hello.
[02:56.990 --> 02:57.290]  Rob T.
[02:57.410 --> 02:57.850]  Firefly.
[02:58.150 --> 02:58.570]  Good evening.
[02:58.570 --> 02:58.890]  Jim.
[02:59.210 --> 02:59.530]  Hi.
[02:59.790 --> 03:00.130]  Mike.
[03:00.610 --> 03:02.710]  You seem awfully surprised that today is Wednesday.
[03:03.170 --> 03:05.230]  Yeah, it seems to happen really, really quickly.
[03:05.570 --> 03:08.450]  That's always something that kind of surprises me.
[03:09.070 --> 03:10.530]  And Bernie asked down there in Philadelphia.
[03:11.150 --> 03:12.290]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[03:12.710 --> 03:16.870]  And you might hear the sounds of progress and technology in the background.
[03:16.870 --> 03:19.550]  This is something that we ripped up for you.
[03:20.050 --> 03:24.430]  Just to feel good about the way things are changing and happening all around.
[03:24.430 --> 03:25.630]  We're watching a video.
[03:25.630 --> 03:29.010]  It's a video about things back in the 1960s.
[03:29.130 --> 03:33.030]  How technology is moving forward and progressing rapidly.
[03:33.250 --> 03:44.030]  And in a few moments, we'll hear some exciting words about what is in store for your telephone in the months, years, decades, centuries ahead.
[03:44.310 --> 03:47.190]  It's all about possible technology in the 21st century.
[03:48.330 --> 03:54.050]  Yeah, it was all made at the World's Fair in Seattle in 1962, I think.
[03:54.310 --> 03:55.090]  I'm not even sure.
[03:55.630 --> 03:55.750]  Yeah.
[03:55.930 --> 03:56.470]  Is that right, Jim?
[03:56.670 --> 03:56.830]  Yeah.
[03:57.070 --> 03:57.270]  Okay.
[03:58.290 --> 03:59.290]  So, yeah, we have that.
[03:59.390 --> 04:01.330]  We have all kinds of other interesting things going on.
[04:02.590 --> 04:05.270]  In fact, we have Doug to thank for this.
[04:05.350 --> 04:09.870]  He sent us this link with old telephone videos.
[04:10.350 --> 04:22.050]  And he also sent us some information about the sound cannon we focused on last week, which was used by Pittsburgh's finest against the citizens of Pittsburgh to basically make them...
[04:22.050 --> 04:23.410]  Who says they're the finest?
[04:23.530 --> 04:23.950]  Well, they do.
[04:24.150 --> 04:25.410]  I mean, it seems often...
[04:25.410 --> 04:26.730]  You didn't see the quotation marks around that.
[04:26.730 --> 04:29.810]  You think fine people wouldn't blast their fellow citizens with...
[04:29.810 --> 04:30.670]  No, you'd think that.
[04:30.690 --> 04:31.310]  You would think that.
[04:31.390 --> 04:32.990]  But you'd be wrong, because they do.
[04:33.050 --> 04:33.970]  And they will again.
[04:34.450 --> 04:36.870]  He says the sound cannon is really...
[04:36.870 --> 04:37.950]  Why don't they make me expect this anymore?
[04:38.110 --> 04:39.550]  It's so uplifting.
[04:40.170 --> 04:51.570]  The sound cannon is really called the LRAD, or Long Range Acoustical Devices, made by my favorite company, with the best name ever, American Technology Corporation, out of San Diego, California.
[04:52.990 --> 04:55.650]  This is what they have playing in their elevators all the time.
[04:58.470 --> 05:05.730]  As far as I know, he said this technology works in a straight beam, and this is a different technology.
[05:05.730 --> 05:06.250]  Actually, I'm sorry.
[05:06.590 --> 05:08.650]  I think he forwarded something else, which I can't see.
[05:08.950 --> 05:11.130]  But he said basically some other torture device they're making.
[05:11.330 --> 05:13.870]  As long as you're not directly in the beam, it won't cause pain.
[05:15.050 --> 05:16.030]  Is this the blinky light?
[05:16.170 --> 05:16.490]  I'm not sure.
[05:16.490 --> 05:18.110]  There's a blinky light that...
[05:18.110 --> 05:18.370]  No, it is a sound wave.
[05:18.450 --> 05:18.790]  I'm sorry.
[05:19.190 --> 05:20.330]  You can do the sound.
[05:20.490 --> 05:21.570]  I was mistaken twice.
[05:21.670 --> 05:22.290]  I was mistaken twice.
[05:22.290 --> 05:23.610]  It was the sound beam.
[05:23.730 --> 05:28.070]  As long as you're not directly in that, then you won't get hurt as badly.
[05:28.170 --> 05:36.590]  Which is kind of cool, because I remember a year or two ago, maybe three, who knows at this point, us discussing audio spotlights, which sounded like a really cool technology.
[05:36.670 --> 05:46.170]  And this was something new at the time, and we were kind of musing over, wow, that's really neat, that you could focus sound so that it's only in a specific area, and nobody outside could hear it.
[05:46.310 --> 05:52.910]  So that would make so that you could have people, maybe a place where you could have a dance floor in the middle, and everybody on the dance floor can hear the music, but nobody else.
[05:53.070 --> 05:54.850]  But here it's being applied in a completely different manner.
[05:55.230 --> 06:03.430]  Now, if you're interested in how LRAD works, go to science.howstuffworks.com slash LRAD.htm.
[06:04.150 --> 06:11.190]  And also, Doug reminds us that the large, black, tank-like vehicle we refer to is called an armored personnel carrier.
[06:11.350 --> 06:11.590]  You know what?
[06:11.590 --> 06:12.770]  We're going to get into the presentation here.
[06:12.830 --> 06:16.790]  Let's listen to what exciting things are ahead for telephone technology.
[06:21.120 --> 06:31.660]  Here is a world of communication, tailored for your needs of today and tomorrow, bringing together all people in a new era of understanding.
[06:43.420 --> 06:55.300]  Keeping in touch by means of the amazing new Bellboy is the Bell System's answer today for doctors, salesmen, deliverymen, or anyone who must be available at all times in the fast-paced world of Century 21.
[06:55.840 --> 07:01.080]  When someone calls, and you are out, you can be reached by dialing your Bellboy code number.
[07:08.330 --> 07:13.540]  When you get a signal on the Bellboy, you can go to a phone to call your office or home and get the message.
[07:17.960 --> 07:19.580]  This is the automatic dialer.
[07:19.830 --> 07:23.300]  Just listen for dial tone, insert a number card, and press the start bar.
[07:23.300 --> 07:29.070]  The Bell System automatic dialer dials for you more quickly and easily than you can do it yourself.
[07:32.740 --> 07:36.020]  Numbers you call frequently can be punched on small plastic cards.
[07:37.780 --> 07:42.020]  Pick a city, then see how fast direct distance dialing really is.
[07:42.480 --> 07:45.580]  Dial the area code, then the weather report telephone number.
[07:46.060 --> 07:47.340]  Presto, instant weather.
[07:47.340 --> 07:51.380]  With DDD, most calls go through in 20 seconds or less.
[07:53.420 --> 07:58.920]  Here you see the Bell solar battery in action, turning light into electricity to run this display.
[07:59.500 --> 08:05.540]  Solar batteries are used to convert sunlight to electrical power and make our satellites talk back from outer space.
[08:18.420 --> 08:21.760]  This is the Bell System's new touch-tone dialing.
[08:21.880 --> 08:25.220]  With this indicator, you see how many seconds you save the new way.
[08:25.460 --> 08:26.220]  Let's try it.
[08:26.260 --> 08:27.020]  Okay, I'll race you.
[08:27.160 --> 08:27.440]  Ready?
[08:27.640 --> 08:27.920]  Go.
[08:35.090 --> 08:35.910]  I beat ya.
[08:41.270 --> 08:42.450]  Welcome to our exhibit.
[08:43.030 --> 08:47.570]  I'm glad to have this opportunity to tell you about the Telephone Switching Center of tomorrow.
[08:48.130 --> 08:56.830]  The Electronic Central Office, which is made possible by the magic of the transistor, and other tiny but amazing devices invented by the Bell Telephone Laboratories.
[08:57.430 --> 09:02.130]  Imagine, if you can, an electronic brain operating at millionth of a second speed.
[09:02.490 --> 09:07.430]  I say brain because the new Electronic Central Office will almost blink for itself.
[09:07.930 --> 09:14.890]  It will not only carry out instructions you dial into it, it will also remember instructions you provided earlier.
[09:15.430 --> 09:20.530]  These memory features will offer many convenient services I'm sure you'll be delighted with.
[09:20.530 --> 09:25.870]  For one thing, you'll be able to reach frequently called numbers by dialing only two digits.
[09:25.870 --> 09:30.970]  All you'll have to do is give the Telephone Company a list of the numbers you dial most frequently.
[09:31.370 --> 09:33.770]  The electronic brain's memory will do the rest.
[09:34.770 --> 09:37.110]  To see how it works, please watch the screen.
[09:43.490 --> 09:45.110]  Is it time to phone, Grandma?
[09:45.530 --> 09:46.330]  Now, let's see.
[09:46.930 --> 09:47.570]  All right.
[09:48.310 --> 09:51.070]  Now, let's say you want to call your mother, who lives in Des Moines.
[09:51.330 --> 09:58.090]  You call her fairly often, so the Telephone Company has assigned 5-3 as your special number for making this call.
[09:58.090 --> 10:05.890]  When you dial the 5 and the 3, the Electronic Central Office's brain says, uh-oh, something special.
[10:06.570 --> 10:09.710]  Searches its memory for what those two digits represent.
[10:10.210 --> 10:14.070]  And dials the area code plus the full number in Des Moines for you.
[10:15.530 --> 10:16.170]  Hello?
[10:16.650 --> 10:17.670]  Hello, Grandma!
[10:19.350 --> 10:24.950]  Ever been invited out for an evening and had to turn it down because you're expecting an extra special call?
[10:25.790 --> 10:29.610]  Well, the Electronic Central Office will solve that problem for you, too.
[10:30.250 --> 10:34.170]  When you do go out, it will be a simple matter to have your calls transferred.
[10:34.650 --> 10:40.850]  All you'll have to do is dial a special code, which tells the equipment's brain you want your calls transferred.
[10:41.170 --> 10:44.110]  And then dial the telephone number where you can be reached.
[10:45.430 --> 10:48.770]  Our amazing Electronic Central Office will take it from there.
[10:51.490 --> 10:53.750]  I think it's a wonderful call for you.
[10:55.390 --> 10:56.510]  No, no, you can't.
[10:57.970 --> 10:58.550]  Hello?
[10:59.110 --> 10:59.690]  Diane?
[10:59.990 --> 11:01.190]  No, this isn't Diane.
[11:01.570 --> 11:01.990]  It's Linda.
[11:02.350 --> 11:02.750]  Linda?
[11:03.030 --> 11:03.950]  What gives?
[11:04.330 --> 11:05.510]  This is Jim Morton.
[11:05.590 --> 11:06.690]  I was calling Diane Brown.
[11:06.970 --> 11:08.270]  Oh, yes, she's here.
[11:08.590 --> 11:10.830]  She had her calls transferred to my house.
[11:12.310 --> 11:13.270]  Hi, Jim.
[11:14.630 --> 11:18.670]  And what about those times someone has tried to call you and your line is busy?
[11:19.190 --> 11:20.550]  We thought of that, too.
[11:22.170 --> 11:23.830]  Fine, Sarah, that's fine.
[11:24.150 --> 11:26.950]  I'll have the information for you at the meeting next Wednesday.
[11:27.630 --> 11:31.970]  When you hear the beep tone on your telephone, you know someone else is trying to reach you.
[11:32.630 --> 11:34.190]  Sarah, will you hold on just a minute?
[11:34.450 --> 11:35.850]  Someone else is trying to reach me.
[11:36.150 --> 11:40.310]  All you do is flick the switch hook to hold the first call while you take the second.
[11:40.310 --> 11:41.490]  Oh, hello, dear.
[11:41.610 --> 11:42.590]  I was just talking to Sarah.
[11:44.730 --> 11:45.530]  I see.
[11:46.270 --> 11:50.110]  Okay, dear, would you tell Fred next time he's in town he's to bring Helen, right?
[11:51.450 --> 11:52.170]  Bye, dear.
[11:52.490 --> 11:55.290]  You flick the button back and go on with your first call.
[11:55.490 --> 11:56.150]  Hello, Sarah?
[11:56.430 --> 11:57.650]  That was Bert calling.
[11:58.270 --> 11:59.530]  Easy as pie, isn't it?
[11:59.530 --> 12:02.070]  And here's another feature you're going to find handy.
[12:02.410 --> 12:03.050]  Now, look.
[12:03.210 --> 12:05.890]  Sarah, Jane knows a lot more about that than I do.
[12:06.210 --> 12:08.270]  Why don't we get her on the line and find out?
[12:09.230 --> 12:10.250]  Okay, just a minute.
[12:10.990 --> 12:12.270]  Want someone else on the line?
[12:12.510 --> 12:13.430]  That's easy, too.
[12:14.130 --> 12:17.530]  Flip the switch button, then dial a code number and the number you want.
[12:17.790 --> 12:18.710]  And presto.
[12:24.970 --> 12:25.770]  Hello, Jane?
[12:26.110 --> 12:27.010]  This is Martha.
[12:27.490 --> 12:29.110]  Doesn't I have Sarah on the line?
[12:29.290 --> 12:31.170]  And we want to know what to do about...
[12:31.170 --> 12:35.690]  As we look to the future, we see many extras for tomorrow's telephone users.
[12:36.190 --> 12:40.270]  One day, you may be able to call home and automatically turn off the oven.
[12:44.950 --> 12:55.570]  Or, from a public telephone a couple of hundred miles away, turn on your home air conditioner and have the house nice and cool when you return from your hot trip.
[12:56.230 --> 13:02.310]  It may even be possible to call and water the lawn during that dry spell when you are many miles away on vacation.
[13:09.150 --> 13:10.830]  Sounds fantastic, doesn't it?
[13:11.250 --> 13:20.510]  But it is all possible because of the basic research our scientists and engineers at the Bell Telephone Laboratories are doing to make your service better day by day.
[13:21.070 --> 13:28.630]  From their work has come breakthrough after breakthrough in science, providing the intricate devices that lie at the heart of your telephone service of tomorrow.
[13:29.490 --> 13:35.950]  Through the invention of better things, we are trying very hard to give you the kind of telephone service you want and need.
[13:36.210 --> 13:44.290]  And we think you'll agree, after seeing the many exhibits we have here, there is no end to telephone progress now or in Century 21.
[13:46.430 --> 13:49.150]  Yes, and unfortunately their editing needs a little work.
[13:49.530 --> 13:52.550]  But, yeah, that was inspirational, wasn't it?
[13:52.790 --> 13:54.530]  All the things that telephones are capable of doing.
[13:54.670 --> 13:55.970]  Wow, the future is amazing.
[13:56.190 --> 13:59.790]  But they're always trying to turn on the oven remotely and that never seems to happen.
[13:59.910 --> 14:02.270]  We never seem to have the technology to turn on the oven from far away.
[14:02.470 --> 14:03.670]  That's because nobody uses ovens anymore.
[14:03.710 --> 14:06.390]  Yeah, I think the opportunity might be lost.
[14:06.630 --> 14:09.050]  Yeah, that would be a horrible thing to turn the oven on remotely.
[14:09.050 --> 14:11.030]  I can just see the newspapers.
[14:11.030 --> 14:13.030]  I think it was turning off remotely was the thing.
[14:13.030 --> 14:14.250]  I thought you were turning on.
[14:14.370 --> 14:15.650]  You were like making a roast or something.
[14:15.890 --> 14:16.230]  Yeah, yeah.
[14:16.290 --> 14:18.550]  But you have to put it in the oven first.
[14:18.750 --> 14:19.870]  But then what if it fails?
[14:20.110 --> 14:25.890]  What if it doesn't actually work and you get home expecting that the oven got shut off and then your roast is burnt?
[14:26.090 --> 14:26.970]  Yeah, that would be bad.
[14:27.110 --> 14:27.870]  What if it calls you back?
[14:27.870 --> 14:29.330]  Sir, your dinner is online too.
[14:29.650 --> 14:29.890]  Yeah.
[14:30.330 --> 14:32.770]  And most of this was done with rotary phones, which I thought was kind of cool.
[14:32.830 --> 14:33.710]  They were pay phones.
[14:33.910 --> 14:35.290]  Anyway, you can see this whole video yourself.
[14:35.290 --> 14:41.150]  www.archive.org slash details slash century21964.
[14:41.930 --> 14:43.350]  Yeah, capital C in century.
[14:43.470 --> 14:50.490]  The one thing I thought that was interesting was that at that time, obviously, the personal computer or anything like it was kind of farthest from the imagination.
[14:50.490 --> 14:56.890]  So all of the logic would have to go and happen in the supercomputer in the central office or wherever it was.
[14:56.890 --> 14:57.150]  The brain, yes.
[14:57.230 --> 14:57.570]  Exactly.
[14:57.730 --> 15:09.690]  And now, obviously, a lot of that stuff still happens on the service side, three-way calling, things like that, but you also have self, you know, all the memory and things like that are now localized to the person in their personal device.
[15:09.990 --> 15:13.450]  But, you know, at the time, you wouldn't have thought that could be possible.
[15:13.690 --> 15:21.870]  So I would love to see how the sheer computing power in a modern cell phone compares to the computing power in that electronic brain in the central office in 1964.
[15:22.870 --> 15:23.310]  Right.
[15:23.310 --> 15:23.410]  Absolutely.
[15:23.750 --> 15:25.350]  The gender politics are interesting to us.
[15:25.570 --> 15:33.390]  Even with the card they have to make dialing really easy and really fast so that anyone can do it is still the man's wife has to do it for him.
[15:33.570 --> 15:34.130]  It's very strange.
[15:35.230 --> 15:35.730]  All right.
[15:35.810 --> 15:39.150]  A little bit of a diversion there for people to hear.
[15:39.350 --> 15:41.890]  Something from the past, 1964 that was made.
[15:42.470 --> 15:46.450]  And here we are back in 2009, and here's the real world.
[15:47.210 --> 15:50.470]  This story from the New York Post, something we're going to focus on tonight.
[15:50.850 --> 15:55.270]  It was entitled, Queen's Terror Raid Hits G20 Anarchist.
[15:55.550 --> 15:56.510]  You all see this story?
[15:56.670 --> 15:57.230]  It's unbelievable.
[15:57.230 --> 16:02.770]  FBI anti-terrorism agents raided the Queen's home of a self-described anarchist.
[16:03.030 --> 16:15.850]  And basically, he was charged with tweeting instructions on how to evade police at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh, same place where they were bombarding people with that sound, that wonderful sound last week.
[16:16.410 --> 16:45.510]  They confiscated from the house a dozen gas masks, liquid mercury, backpacks containing hammers and anarchist literature, and Elliot Madison, who lives in Jackson Heights, was arrested previously in Pittsburgh for basically running or being in a room that had equipment and the means to communicate with people who are in the streets of Pittsburgh and updating them on just what was going on in the
[16:45.510 --> 16:48.710]  streets concerning cops, concerning arrest, things like that.
[16:49.370 --> 16:56.490]  Apparently, apparently, that's called criminal use of a communication facility, which I found to be pretty staggering.
[16:56.630 --> 17:04.370]  This story started in the New York Post, and yes, they called it a terror raid, which I thought was insane to refer to something like this as a terror raid.
[17:04.450 --> 17:08.450]  I think it's insane that someone would even be charged with a crime for doing this.
[17:08.450 --> 17:19.470]  I know in many demonstrations in the past, people would sign up their cell phones for updates to find out where streets were closed, where cops were moving in on people.
[17:20.830 --> 17:23.090]  It didn't seem like anything at all.
[17:23.330 --> 17:28.170]  In fact, Redhack, I believe your scanner was once used at one of these events, right?
[17:28.290 --> 17:29.430]  You didn't think I'd remember that, did you?
[17:29.750 --> 17:32.850]  Yeah, I was to listen to different frequencies.
[17:32.850 --> 17:34.770]  To listen to frequent, listen to public frequencies.
[17:35.050 --> 17:36.010]  Well, I mean, that's perfectly legal to do.
[17:36.010 --> 17:36.610]  Well, I don't know.
[17:36.610 --> 17:40.450]  Is it, I mean, basically what we have here is somebody being arrested for doing just that.
[17:40.490 --> 17:43.550]  Well, he was disseminating information and helping the protesters.
[17:43.730 --> 17:44.630]  But what's interesting...
[17:44.630 --> 17:46.510]  Wait, but we listened but we can't tell anybody what we're hearing.
[17:46.530 --> 17:47.030]  Is that what you're saying?
[17:47.390 --> 17:48.010]  Yeah, you can listen.
[17:48.070 --> 17:49.750]  You can listen into police chatter if you want.
[17:49.750 --> 17:50.670]  But you can't tell anybody.
[17:50.910 --> 17:52.470]  You can't tell anybody what they're saying.
[17:52.510 --> 17:53.590]  Well, here's whiz interrogating too.
[17:53.730 --> 18:01.350]  You can use Twitter to help protests in dictatorships, but as soon as you do it in this country, then you're a terrorist.
[18:01.630 --> 18:04.510]  Yeah, I mean, that is an irony there, because, I know I...
[18:04.510 --> 18:10.950]  Because I heard that the president likes it when you help protesters and actually asks, you know, Twitter to stay online for that kind of thing.
[18:11.190 --> 18:12.970]  Yeah, and that's what it's all about.
[18:13.330 --> 18:15.670]  And social movements and things like that.
[18:16.770 --> 18:18.490]  Yeah, it does...
[18:20.230 --> 18:21.510]  It seems like...
[18:22.510 --> 18:23.130]  What's it called?
[18:26.330 --> 18:34.270]  That doing this sort of thing, though, based on our laws wouldn't exactly be the most legal, evading the cops or instructing other people on how to do it.
[18:34.270 --> 18:38.190]  It would seem to, you know, be against our laws or at least reckless endangerment.
[18:38.590 --> 18:43.030]  I kind of see why the cops would be getting a little upset about this.
[18:43.150 --> 18:50.830]  But if the cops are telling people to disperse from an area, what's the harm in taking that information and telling other people to also stay away from that area because the cops are there?
[18:51.650 --> 18:56.230]  Yeah, especially if they're going to come in and put big nets around you and then throw you into jail for three days.
[18:56.250 --> 19:02.510]  It certainly would have done me a lot of good in New York to know that cops are about to arrest people on a street that was just a perfectly open street.
[19:02.510 --> 19:06.710]  You know, it's interesting to tell people things like this and I think it's information that should be passed around.
[19:06.810 --> 19:08.090]  Intent's a very important thing.
[19:08.230 --> 19:14.150]  Are you simply telling people to stay away from this area or else you're going to be arrested with everybody there?
[19:14.330 --> 19:19.630]  But how is it any different than the intent of telling people that there's going to be a demonstration, there's going to be a protest on this street?
[19:20.170 --> 19:27.630]  And, you know, if you say that having that demonstration is against the law, then just arrest anybody for saying, have the demonstration in the first place.
[19:27.850 --> 19:29.870]  Well, I mean, these questions seem awfully complicated.
[19:30.150 --> 19:31.730]  It's almost like we need to ask a lawyer.
[19:32.090 --> 19:32.350]  Yeah.
[19:32.490 --> 19:32.910]  And you know what?
[19:32.910 --> 19:34.130]  We happen to have one with us.
[19:34.610 --> 19:43.710]  We happen to have Marty Stoller, who actually I've worked with in the past for the RNC case back in 2004 that I was personally involved in.
[19:43.710 --> 19:46.410]  But he is representing Elliot Madison.
[19:46.630 --> 19:53.070]  And Marty, I guess the first question is, did this hit you by surprise, this kind of a story happening?
[19:53.470 --> 19:55.770]  Well, it certainly does hit me by surprise.
[19:56.050 --> 20:06.550]  I mean, I'm sure it hit Elliot Madison a little heavier than it hit me, because I recognize that my clients are the ones who get arrested, and I'm just trying to get them out of some trouble.
[20:07.090 --> 20:07.390]  Mm-hmm.
[20:07.750 --> 20:11.890]  So now, okay, we have the story in the New York Post about, first of all, a terror raid.
[20:12.050 --> 20:13.150]  I mean...
[20:13.150 --> 20:15.330]  Well, it's not exactly a terror raid.
[20:15.330 --> 20:25.950]  It was an execution of a search warrant at the home of Elliot and his wife, Elena Madison, which began at 6 o'clock in the morning.
[20:25.950 --> 20:35.330]  The raid was conducted by agents of the Joint Terrorist Task Force, which includes the FBI, local law enforcement, and other law enforcement agencies.
[20:35.330 --> 20:37.610]  So that's where the terror comes from.
[20:38.270 --> 20:46.170]  It certainly doesn't come from any kind of label that has been ascribed to Elliot Madison or anybody else that he's associated with.
[20:47.430 --> 20:56.230]  But it was the Joint Terrorist Task Force, which was the people who were executing the search warrant at his premises, at his home.
[20:56.350 --> 20:59.150]  I understand they took all kinds of items.
[20:59.270 --> 21:02.630]  You want to give us some idea of the things that they thought were of interest?
[21:03.230 --> 21:06.050]  They took everything that they could get their hands on.
[21:06.350 --> 21:07.370]  They took literature.
[21:07.370 --> 21:10.230]  They took Elliot's fiction writing.
[21:10.470 --> 21:11.890]  They took his non-fiction writing.
[21:13.450 --> 21:15.250]  They took a couple of stuffed animals.
[21:15.510 --> 21:16.810]  They took refrigerator magnets.
[21:18.530 --> 21:19.310]  Refrigerator magnets.
[21:19.590 --> 21:23.390]  Refrigerator magnets, some of which probably were Curious George refrigerator magnets.
[21:23.630 --> 21:25.270]  Those can be used for all kinds of...
[21:25.270 --> 21:28.650]  Don't search warrants usually have a specific listing or not?
[21:28.650 --> 21:38.630]  They do, but the problem with this search warrant said that they wanted evidence of violations of the federal interstate anti-riot laws.
[21:39.270 --> 21:54.690]  Now, if you think about what the federal interstate anti-riot laws are, you think back to the Chicago 8, the trial that came as a result of the Democratic Convention in August of 1968 in Chicago, where people were accused of crossing state lines to incite a riot?
[21:55.350 --> 22:04.630]  That is the law, presumably, that the warrant said go seize evidence that indicates violations of the federal anti-riot laws.
[22:05.150 --> 22:08.550]  What that evidence could be is an open question.
[22:08.550 --> 22:09.850]  It's awfully broad.
[22:10.530 --> 22:19.790]  It's not like, you know, you've got a search warrant to go search for drug paraphernalia or drugs or guns or drug ledgers and things like that.
[22:19.790 --> 22:23.310]  It just said violation of the federal anti-rioting laws.
[22:23.710 --> 22:38.850]  Well, that could stretch all the way from lists of who your associates are, your political friends, to tickets for interstate travel that you've obtained over the course of how many years that are residing on your computer and reservations that are on your computer.
[22:39.330 --> 22:40.170]  We have no idea.
[22:40.170 --> 22:45.870]  It's awfully broad, and it allowed the agents to just sweep up whatever the heck they wanted.
[22:46.790 --> 22:47.590]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[22:48.410 --> 22:49.170]  Marty, hi.
[22:49.270 --> 22:50.070]  This is Bernie S.
[22:50.170 --> 22:50.710]  in Philadelphia.
[22:51.730 --> 22:59.350]  Back in 2000 here in Philadelphia, during the Republican National Convention, there were arrests of this nature, too.
[22:59.450 --> 23:07.710]  In fact, one of our own was arrested for possessing a cell phone and allegedly directing other people.
[23:07.710 --> 23:11.030]  Of course, everything was dropped after a couple of years.
[23:11.250 --> 23:17.130]  But in this case, I've been looking online trying to find a copy of the affidavit of probable cause.
[23:17.330 --> 23:36.270]  I'm trying to find out how did the authorities somehow find a connection or argue to a judge that there was connection between what your client was tweeting and physical items in his apartment or his home.
[23:36.450 --> 23:40.490]  Well, actually, there are two separate searches that we're talking about here.
[23:40.930 --> 23:46.210]  One is the search of his motel room on September 24th when it was outside of Pittsburgh.
[23:46.750 --> 24:02.530]  And that is the search and the arrest at that point that resulted in the state charges in Pennsylvania having to do with hindering prosecution, criminal use of telecommunications facilities, and possession of a criminal instrument.
[24:02.750 --> 24:04.090]  What was that criminal instrument?
[24:04.290 --> 24:07.290]  I presume it's the cell phone or the computer that they found in the room.
[24:08.210 --> 24:22.790]  Well, according to the Post story, the two men who were arrested, the other one unnamed, were traced to a motel room at the Carefree Inn in Pittsburgh, hardly an appropriate name, where they discovered a makeshift communications center.
[24:23.270 --> 24:34.550]  The two men were seated in front of personal computers and telecommunications equipment wearing headphones and microphones and surrounded by maps, contact numbers, and police and EMS scanners.
[24:34.630 --> 24:40.550]  And when you see this written out, it just sounds so ominous, but there is absolutely nothing that I can see in there that's illegal.
[24:41.070 --> 24:42.610]  There is nothing illegal.
[24:42.610 --> 24:55.690]  And in fact, the EMS or the police scanners were probably not in operation at the time that they came into the hotel room, because all that information, as I've learned, is up on the Internet.
[24:56.030 --> 25:04.990]  You can listen to the police scanners, you can listen to EMS radios, emergency service responders, and they're all put out on the Internet, so it becomes public information.
[25:05.170 --> 25:07.110]  So he didn't have to go to Pittsburgh to do this.
[25:07.230 --> 25:08.130]  He could have done this from anywhere in the world.
[25:08.330 --> 25:09.230]  No, he could have done it right from New York City.
[25:09.870 --> 25:29.090]  And, you know, the fact that if, you know, the allegation is that Elliot and his friend were putting up on the Twitter board the fact that an order to disperse had been issued, well, how that can be hindering prosecution is a major stretch.
[25:29.350 --> 25:35.890]  In fact, it seems to me that's aiding the police by advising people, hey, don't go there because the police have said you can't be there.
[25:42.570 --> 25:54.870]  You know, I think it's just that these days, protesters are seen, even though they're expressing their First Amendment right to protest and disagree, they're seen as a nuisance or as the enemy by the police.
[25:54.990 --> 26:02.450]  And so any way that the police can frustrate or hinder their ability to communicate or their ability to protest makes them happy.
[26:02.570 --> 26:03.450]  What does it result in?
[26:03.450 --> 26:12.550]  Well, in terms of the RNC here in New York, it results in lawsuits against the city that I'm going to have to pay for, despite the fact that I had, you know, I disagreed completely with what the city was doing.
[26:12.730 --> 26:21.330]  So I think that this whole process of arresting people and putting these crazy charges for no reason at all is just the police seeing protesters as the enemy.
[26:21.610 --> 26:23.510]  It's very silly.
[26:23.810 --> 26:25.050]  Yeah, but let me back up a minute.
[26:25.130 --> 26:32.450]  The question was raised before about what led to the search warrant that was used in the case against Elliott.
[26:32.810 --> 26:41.710]  And the first search warrant, the one that was used for his hotel room outside of Pittsburgh, the affidavit in support of the search warrant is still sealed.
[26:42.070 --> 26:43.770]  And we're trying to get a hold of that.
[26:44.130 --> 26:57.110]  In addition, the affidavits that were issued in, or that were written in support of the search warrants that were issued a week later for the examination of his home in Queens are also sealed.
[26:57.930 --> 27:02.910]  The only difference is that the judge in that case has asked that the government submit them to her.
[27:03.050 --> 27:06.990]  And she'll make a determination as to whether she wants to turn them over to us or not.
[27:07.210 --> 27:08.490]  I certainly want them.
[27:08.490 --> 27:09.890]  I want the federal search warrants.
[27:10.030 --> 27:12.030]  And I want the state search warrants.
[27:12.210 --> 27:19.470]  Because I think, just based on experience, that probably the warrants are not sufficient.
[27:20.110 --> 27:28.270]  But that will await another day and another forum where we litigate the legality of the affidavit that underlies the search warrants.
[27:28.350 --> 27:34.610]  Do you have any idea how they were able to descend upon the carefree motel in the first place?
[27:34.730 --> 27:37.950]  Do they have some kind of inkling as to where these people were?
[27:38.210 --> 27:45.350]  You know, that would be in the affidavit in support of the search warrant as to how they had the information and what the information was.
[27:46.190 --> 27:50.690]  And certainly, Elliot and his friend made no secret of who they were.
[27:50.690 --> 27:54.210]  They made no secret of registering under their own names.
[27:54.350 --> 27:57.350]  They made no secret of driving cars that were registered to them.
[27:57.870 --> 28:00.070]  There was nothing clandestine going on here.
[28:00.350 --> 28:16.050]  And in fact, the Twitter board that was put up that is Elliot's accused of was only one of several that other people were feeding into and posting information for demonstrators and other people who were in attendance at the G20 in Pittsburgh.
[28:16.410 --> 28:22.230]  Now, Monty, do you know if the particular Twitter account that he was using, is that still there?
[28:22.510 --> 28:23.670]  As far as I know, it is.
[28:23.810 --> 28:24.190]  It is.
[28:24.330 --> 28:24.610]  I don't know.
[28:24.750 --> 28:27.250]  Are you able to give us the name or do you want to give us the name?
[28:27.330 --> 28:27.950]  It's okay if you don't.
[28:28.270 --> 28:29.750]  No, I'm not able to give you the name.
[28:29.830 --> 28:30.030]  Okay.
[28:30.590 --> 28:31.730]  Nor do I want to give you the name.
[28:31.730 --> 28:32.550]  Okay, fair enough.
[28:33.170 --> 28:33.490]  Rob?
[28:34.190 --> 28:47.130]  So, if I've got this all straight, these gentlemen were using legal equipment in a legal manner to disseminate legal information that the authorities themselves were disseminating and this got him arrested.
[28:47.970 --> 28:49.050]  That's the allegation.
[28:49.330 --> 28:54.490]  I mean, I'm not in a position to admit that that's what my client was doing, but that's the allegation.
[28:54.790 --> 28:58.090]  That's the best of the allegation that the state is making against them.
[28:58.430 --> 29:03.770]  And if that's the best that it is, then it doesn't hold water and it certainly does not support criminal charges.
[29:04.050 --> 29:04.510]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[29:05.470 --> 29:13.350]  Marty, what possible justification could the state or federal authorities have in sealing an affidavit for probable cause?
[29:14.010 --> 29:15.550]  It's standard procedure.
[29:16.590 --> 29:18.870]  There's nothing unusual about it at all.
[29:19.370 --> 29:20.950]  It's often what happens.
[29:21.170 --> 29:24.990]  It's often used to protect the identities of confidential sources.
[29:25.210 --> 29:31.270]  It's often used to protect the sources of information that are not publicly available.
[29:31.770 --> 29:36.750]  So, law enforcement often uses sealed search warrants in order to get information.
[29:37.050 --> 29:38.930]  Later on, they become unsealed.
[29:39.110 --> 29:48.450]  But at the beginning of a case, the sealing is used to protect confidential sources of information and the judges routinely go along with that.
[29:48.610 --> 29:57.650]  Now, one thing that is not sealed and which the prosecution is very happy to give out is a list of some of the items that were found during the search.
[29:57.830 --> 29:58.390]  Assistant U.S.
[29:58.790 --> 30:11.450]  Attorney Andrew Goldsmith said some of the items raised concern including a pound of liquid mercury alongside books about poisons and ready for this a microscope.
[30:12.110 --> 30:12.630]  Yeah.
[30:12.930 --> 30:13.270]  Okay.
[30:13.330 --> 30:15.770]  I see a look of horror in some people's faces here when I say that.
[30:16.190 --> 30:17.510]  It gets worse than that.
[30:17.830 --> 30:26.890]  The feds also found metal triangles that are used to puncture tires because that's all metal triangles could possibly be used for and two boxes of ammunition.
[30:27.490 --> 30:31.370]  Goldsmith said agents left a collection of machetes.
[30:32.090 --> 30:32.610]  Okay.
[30:32.710 --> 30:36.570]  I read that as they brought him a bunch of machetes and left it there.
[30:36.710 --> 30:36.770]  Okay.
[30:37.010 --> 30:38.690]  No, apparently they weren't interested in the machetes.
[30:39.370 --> 30:43.770]  Samurai swords and daggers because they didn't fall within the scope of the search warrants.
[30:43.890 --> 30:46.550]  So apparently some things didn't fall within the scope of the search warrants.
[30:46.550 --> 30:48.970]  Look what mercury did but not machetes and samurai swords.
[30:49.090 --> 30:51.190]  I'm not really sure if they actually seized the mercury.
[30:51.190 --> 30:53.130]  I'm not sure if they seized the poison books.
[30:53.590 --> 30:59.970]  I'm not sure if they actually seized the microscope that I can't tell from the inventories that the FBI provided.
[31:00.630 --> 31:15.850]  But I can tell you Whether that's how, you know, books on poisons or how books on anarchist tracts or political philosophy could be evidence of federal anti-rioting law violations is beyond me.
[31:16.410 --> 31:18.230]  They just grab too many things.
[31:18.790 --> 31:26.950]  Now, is it, you know, could attorneys, you know, say what they found without it being seized just as a way to help their case in the public eye?
[31:26.970 --> 31:29.390]  Is that something that's common or are they not allowed to do that?
[31:29.390 --> 31:46.910]  Well, what I think the government attorney did in the course of the proceeding where he mentioned all those things, it was he mentioned it after the judge had issued an order stopping the FBI from investigating or going into an index again, analyzing all the materials that were seized at Elliott's house.
[31:46.910 --> 32:06.890]  I was able to get it, convince the judge that no further searches of that material should be done until she decides whether or not a special master should be appointed who can review all the materials to see if there are questions about privileged information,
[32:07.150 --> 32:09.110]  such as the attorney client privilege.
[32:09.110 --> 32:28.110]  As you may know, Elliott and Elena were part of the People's Law Collective, doing paralegal work and legal support for demonstrators, questions about whether there are social worker protected, privileged documents and information that was seized because Elliott Madison is indeed a social worker.
[32:28.650 --> 32:34.750]  He's worked for Fountain House, which deals with seriously ill folks here in New York for the last 10 years.
[32:35.490 --> 32:45.930]  He has questions about questions about First Amendment privilege, that is, lists of names and addresses of associates and political friends.
[32:47.210 --> 32:57.950]  That's some of the questions that I want the special master to look at to see if stuff really has evidentiary value or whether it's just nonsense or is protected by privileges.
[32:58.190 --> 33:02.250]  Now, obviously, you've been speaking to the media quite a bit since the story hit.
[33:02.250 --> 33:10.110]  And I imagine that reporters, and maybe I should put that in quotes, have seen a list of some of these items.
[33:10.390 --> 33:17.510]  What kinds of questions do you find yourself having to deal with as far as what they might assume this guy was up to?
[33:17.670 --> 33:23.090]  Well, most of the media questions have to do with the criminalization of the use of Twitter.
[33:24.570 --> 33:26.590]  That's what really gets people interested.
[33:26.590 --> 33:28.530]  And it gets me interested, too.
[33:28.750 --> 33:32.970]  But if you think about it, Twitter is no different than one person talking to another.
[33:33.830 --> 33:42.590]  If you and I were in the middle of a lawful demonstration walking down the street, and I said to you, look, don't go down that street.
[33:43.190 --> 33:46.070]  The police have issued an order to disperse down there.
[33:46.970 --> 33:50.650]  Have I committed a crime by telling you, don't go down that street?
[33:51.650 --> 33:54.930]  That's exactly what has happened with Elliot.
[33:55.550 --> 34:14.130]  If indeed he put up on Twitter the fact that an order to disperse had been issued, which is what the claim is by the Pennsylvania State Police, and that that was passed on to other people who were able to get onto the Twitter board, how is that a crime?
[34:14.730 --> 34:15.490]  It's not.
[34:15.710 --> 34:16.250]  It's speech.
[34:16.410 --> 34:17.470]  It's protected speech.
[34:17.470 --> 34:18.950]  It's First Amendment speech.
[34:19.550 --> 34:20.890]  And it's totally harmless.
[34:21.250 --> 34:34.550]  Well, now, you've been part of things like this for quite some time, and I was especially impressed by the National Lawyers Guild and their work with the 2004 incidents that took place in New York City.
[34:34.650 --> 34:39.410]  We were shocked back then to see the lengths that the NYPD would go to.
[34:39.610 --> 34:48.950]  But it seems like with every demonstration that happens, every new series of protests, whether they're huge or rather small, we're shocked by something new.
[34:49.130 --> 34:59.570]  In this particular case, it was the sound cannon and the use of various other devices that really hadn't been used in this country before, had been used in Iraq, perhaps.
[35:00.630 --> 35:03.350]  Do you see this as a trend?
[35:03.370 --> 35:10.870]  Every year we're going to see some other step taken, so that eventually we'll just say, oh, that's normal, this is the way things have to be?
[35:10.870 --> 35:12.530]  Well, I certainly hope not.
[35:12.770 --> 35:23.630]  I mean, what is the most frightening thing about the arrest of Elliot and his friend is that they've now not only targeted demonstrators, but people who support demonstrators.
[35:23.970 --> 35:34.070]  I mean, there were Twitter feeds for medical information, for legal information, for general information, for housing, for food.
[35:34.070 --> 35:43.910]  And somehow, Elliot Madison was singled out as the one person of all the people who were feeding information that was accessible on Twitter.
[35:44.330 --> 35:54.530]  He was the one who was singled out and arrested because of, perhaps, his lengthy history of being a support person for people involved in protest and demonstration activity.
[35:54.770 --> 35:56.210]  So you think this was to send a message?
[35:56.770 --> 35:58.650]  You know, that's the way I read it.
[35:59.790 --> 36:00.330]  Amazing.
[36:00.670 --> 36:01.330]  Absolutely amazing.
[36:01.890 --> 36:07.970]  So I have to wonder, future demonstrations, will people be afraid to use Twitter?
[36:08.170 --> 36:09.530]  Will they shy away from this?
[36:09.850 --> 36:14.910]  Well, it certainly will have a chilling effect on it, although the contradiction is astounding.
[36:15.370 --> 36:34.650]  That, you know, say, in the Green Revolution, after the phony elections in Iran, we have a whole series of demonstrations and the same kind of operation of using Twitter to allow people to communicate with each other, which was cracked down on then by the Iranian government,
[36:35.070 --> 36:37.750]  called our State Department, comes in and says, hey, don't do that.
[36:38.090 --> 36:39.450]  You know, leave Twitter alone.
[36:39.630 --> 36:40.050]  Leave it up.
[36:40.190 --> 36:40.990]  It's free speech.
[36:41.390 --> 36:51.790]  And yet, we turn right around in this country and criminalize somebody who's doing exactly the same thing that the State Department has said is okay.
[36:52.110 --> 36:53.990]  Well, now, how high up does it go?
[36:53.990 --> 36:56.990]  Has there been something from the State Department on this?
[36:57.370 --> 36:58.610]  Not as far as I'm aware.
[36:59.250 --> 37:03.630]  It's bad enough that I've got the Joint Terrorist Task Force rummaging around in my client's home.
[37:04.430 --> 37:05.330]  I don't even...
[37:05.330 --> 37:11.170]  I don't think I need to bring the State Department into this, nor do I see how they could possibly have anything to do with this.
[37:11.370 --> 37:11.570]  Right.
[37:12.510 --> 37:17.990]  Do you see this case setting a precedent in the future, or do you think it won't get to that level in that...
[37:18.650 --> 37:20.630]  so that this wouldn't happen to people in the future?
[37:20.850 --> 37:28.710]  The one precedent that I would like the case to set is that nobody can be arrested for doing what Elliot is alleged to have done.
[37:29.870 --> 37:31.550]  I want to put an end to that.
[37:31.750 --> 37:34.510]  I want to, like, cut it off and say, you can't do this.
[37:34.510 --> 37:40.070]  I want to send a message to law enforcement that says you cannot arrest somebody under these circumstances.
[37:40.390 --> 37:43.890]  If I get a ruling that says that, then we've accomplished something.
[37:44.850 --> 37:45.330]  Absolutely.
[37:46.230 --> 37:51.450]  Has there been any indication that Twitter was asked to cut off the account at any point?
[37:51.690 --> 37:52.770]  Not that I'm aware of.
[37:53.290 --> 37:58.390]  I would wonder if they were disinterested in shutting it down, why they wouldn't go that route.
[37:58.650 --> 38:01.850]  Well, as far as I know, the account was still open as of two days ago.
[38:03.350 --> 38:08.310]  Because I accessed it and got some information to use in the court proceedings in Pennsylvania.
[38:08.310 --> 38:15.490]  I imagine they could also look at everybody who's accessed it as well, people who have subscribed to that, followed that particular account, and start looking into them in addition.
[38:15.950 --> 38:21.190]  Well, it depends how far they want to go, but I suspect that the technology exists that would allow them to do that.
[38:21.330 --> 38:36.450]  Whether the government would spend the time and the resources to recover that information and then try to identify the screen names or numbers that people use either to post information or to access information, that's a huge undertaking.
[38:37.270 --> 38:45.410]  Why don't we just leave that to the National Security Agency with their supercomputers so they can just sweep up everybody making phone calls and sending emails?
[38:45.590 --> 38:46.330]  We'll do that instead.
[38:46.570 --> 38:47.010]  Fair enough.
[38:47.210 --> 38:51.470]  Well, as far as I know, reading information probably isn't illegal, or I hope not.
[38:51.690 --> 38:52.690]  Well, not this year.
[38:52.790 --> 38:53.770]  Maybe next year it will be.
[38:53.950 --> 38:59.710]  But the other thing is, them shutting down that one Twitter account, you know, it's easy to make another one and another one and another one.
[38:59.830 --> 39:05.930]  And I think here, obviously, like has been said, they're trying to send a message so that other people don't do this.
[39:05.930 --> 39:07.030]  They want to scare people.
[39:07.170 --> 39:08.270]  And I hope that they don't.
[39:08.770 --> 39:22.770]  We're speaking with Marty Stoller, the attorney for the man arrested for basically tweeting about police activity in Pittsburgh during the G20 demonstrations, Elliot Madison.
[39:23.610 --> 39:34.770]  And Marty, I'd like to ask you just to use your imagination a little bit and tell us, tell somebody hearing this story, wanting to know why this is significant.
[39:35.030 --> 39:36.610]  These people are all demonstrators.
[39:36.850 --> 39:39.310]  They're all like, you know, out to cause trouble.
[39:39.550 --> 39:40.590]  They got what they deserved.
[39:40.950 --> 39:42.410]  Why should this matter to them?
[39:42.510 --> 39:46.970]  How could this change in the future and become something that would be a nightmare even to them?
[39:47.130 --> 39:56.210]  Well, I mean, Devin, you know, people who are engaged in protests or in demonstrations are not only left-wing crazy nuts or right-wing crazy nuts.
[39:56.210 --> 39:57.470]  They're ordinary people.
[39:57.630 --> 39:59.310]  They're working people, union people.
[39:59.530 --> 40:09.450]  And the right to protest and the right to petition your government for redress of grievances is ingrained in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
[40:09.970 --> 40:18.130]  It's kind of what makes the United States special because we have judges, theoretically, who say, you can't do this.
[40:18.130 --> 40:19.170]  You can't go so far.
[40:19.310 --> 40:21.730]  That's protected speech is protected speech.
[40:22.030 --> 40:25.370]  So you have an absolute right to protest.
[40:25.370 --> 40:28.190]  Can they limit what you do on a protest?
[40:28.210 --> 40:34.930]  Can they limit you for using sound equipment or can they limit you to not marching in streets that are major thoroughfares?
[40:35.150 --> 40:35.570]  Sure.
[40:35.950 --> 40:42.110]  But limitations on time and place cannot restrict people's ability to stand up and make their voices heard.
[40:42.770 --> 40:45.770]  That applies to people protesting the G20.
[40:45.890 --> 40:49.650]  It applies to people protesting the Republican National Convention.
[40:49.650 --> 40:55.450]  And it applies to people protesting Obama's death panels.
[40:55.870 --> 40:58.250]  It applies to everybody in the same way.
[40:58.910 --> 41:04.090]  So, you know, what bothers me is that it's directed.
[41:04.370 --> 41:10.290]  Police responses are often directed to people who are directly protesting government policies from a progressive point of view.
[41:11.050 --> 41:18.130]  And the support people such as Elliot Madison now being targeted are what scares me.
[41:18.350 --> 41:23.650]  And that's a precedent I really would like to undercut and throw right out the window.
[41:24.110 --> 41:30.110]  Yeah, I think, you know, it is possible during the course of a protest for certain people to break laws, and it happens.
[41:30.570 --> 41:38.690]  But people disseminating information to protesters in general, I don't see what law they could possibly break and how that would be anything but free speech.
[41:38.690 --> 41:46.690]  Right, and if you extend this a little bit, I mean, to give Twitter maybe more credit than it deserves at the moment, but you could say a newspaper.
[41:46.870 --> 41:55.310]  You could say a newspaper is doing the same thing by spreading information, and that newspaper has to be shut down because it's helping the demonstrators, right?
[41:55.490 --> 41:56.050]  Or an annual.
[41:56.270 --> 41:56.770]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[41:57.310 --> 41:57.990]  Yep, you're right.
[41:58.170 --> 42:02.830]  Also, along those same lines, there are radio networks, radio broadcasts.
[42:03.350 --> 42:07.690]  I was listening to NPR, I guess, the other day, and they played, they were covering this story.
[42:07.930 --> 42:09.790]  This has become a very important story.
[42:10.150 --> 42:11.790]  National media networks are carrying it.
[42:12.150 --> 42:17.870]  NPR rebroadcast the other night a segment that they broadcast back in 1971.
[42:18.500 --> 42:40.210]  It was a live, on-the-scene news coverage of police moving in on protesters, some of whom could very well have been listening to the radio and, you know, trying to avoid violating the law or being in the police's way, which I don't see it being any different from a radio station broadcasting live reports of what police are doing.
[42:40.210 --> 42:43.730]  Well, maybe we're going to have to lock up everybody at that radio station, then.
[42:43.890 --> 42:44.870]  That's what it seems like.
[42:44.990 --> 42:47.010]  You know, WBAI better be aware.
[42:48.510 --> 42:49.810]  Okay, I'll quickly get downstairs.
[42:51.390 --> 42:53.650]  Marty, would you like to stay on and take some listener phone calls?
[42:53.650 --> 42:54.970]  Oh, actually, I kind of would...
[42:54.970 --> 42:57.330]  I've been working all day, particularly on Elliot's case.
[42:57.410 --> 42:57.570]  Oh.
[42:57.910 --> 43:00.770]  And I'd like to see if there's dinner on the table.
[43:00.790 --> 43:01.510]  That's a good idea.
[43:01.630 --> 43:04.250]  Well, any closing words, then, thoughts or advice?
[43:04.510 --> 43:11.470]  No, but I thank you for allowing me to share my information with the listeners of WBAI.
[43:12.350 --> 43:15.830]  And I look forward to everybody supporting Elliot.
[43:16.110 --> 43:22.830]  You know, folks want to see what happened with the federal search for it, and what the judge is going to do with my request that a special master be appointed.
[43:23.650 --> 43:40.290]  comes to court on October 16th at the Federal District Court in Brooklyn, 225 Cabin Plaza East, and come to Judge Irizarry's courtroom, which is courtroom 4A, and see what happens at 9 o'clock in the morning on October 16th.
[43:40.390 --> 43:41.250]  October 16th.
[43:41.290 --> 43:43.670]  Is there any website where information is being disseminated?
[43:44.510 --> 43:46.030]  Certainly, I don't have one that's up.
[43:46.230 --> 43:46.990]  Other people may.
[43:47.130 --> 43:48.130]  Okay, we'll track it down then.
[43:48.470 --> 43:50.150]  Marty, thanks so much, and best of luck.
[43:50.510 --> 43:50.930]  Take care, guys.
[43:51.030 --> 43:51.390]  Take care.
[43:51.530 --> 43:51.730]  Bye-bye.
[43:51.730 --> 43:57.770]  Marty Stoller, the attorney for Elliot Madison, arrested for tweeting about demonstrations.
[43:58.250 --> 44:00.490]  Fascinating case and scary case.
[44:00.590 --> 44:00.830]  Stop, Red.
[44:01.410 --> 44:07.010]  This is a very interesting thing, and I just hope that the proper precedent does get set when this is all done with.
[44:07.530 --> 44:09.350]  Yeah, it would be nice for a change.
[44:09.450 --> 44:15.690]  And hopefully is broader than just Twitter because this should really apply to all forms of communication.
[44:16.170 --> 44:29.250]  One thing that we kind of just touched on that strikes me about this whole thing is that we've had people on this show and on this station and elsewhere at protests reporting live from them, whether on the phone or what have you.
[44:30.250 --> 44:43.630]  And if Elliot Madison were disseminating the exact same information he was disseminating, but under some sort of banner is Elliot Madison the journalist rather than Elliot Madison the guy who's helping protesters, would this have changed the reaction to his actions in any way?
[44:44.350 --> 44:45.150]  Yeah, absolutely.
[44:46.210 --> 44:46.950]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[44:47.090 --> 44:52.110]  Let me ask you about the phone number 212-209-2900 if any of our listeners would like to call in and comment on anything they've heard.
[44:52.170 --> 44:52.550]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[44:53.090 --> 45:03.430]  Just in the interest of full disclosure, has this attorney Marty Stoller, is he or has he ever represented anybody on this radio program?
[45:04.950 --> 45:10.470]  Worked with him on the RNC, Republican National Convention protests that took place.
[45:10.470 --> 45:14.370]  Actually, some people were protesting, some people were not, but everybody was swept up on the street.
[45:15.170 --> 45:21.870]  And it's entertaining radio if you'd like to listen back to September of 2004 to hear how that was going.
[45:22.030 --> 45:27.450]  And yes, the lawsuit is still going on against the city and it's incredible.
[45:27.650 --> 45:33.550]  And we've discussed this too and RedHack brought it up as far as the cost of these things.
[45:33.690 --> 45:40.970]  And yeah, you know, it would be nice if they actually held individual people responsible, individual elected officials.
[45:41.710 --> 45:47.850]  We don't live in a world where that happens, unfortunately, but we're taking this to court because we want to bring them into court.
[45:47.930 --> 45:52.850]  We don't want to just settle, have them write us a check and tell us to shut up.
[45:52.930 --> 45:53.750]  It's not about that.
[45:53.810 --> 46:01.510]  Even if we don't get anything, we want them in court to be held accountable accountable for what they did and hopefully that's how this and other cases will go.
[46:02.290 --> 46:03.310]  Does that answer your question, Bernie?
[46:03.810 --> 46:04.590]  Yes, thank you.
[46:04.770 --> 46:04.950]  Okay.
[46:06.270 --> 46:06.690]  All right.
[46:07.070 --> 46:07.470]  212.
[46:07.750 --> 46:10.690]  I didn't mean to have a speech there, but 212-209-2900.
[46:10.850 --> 46:12.590]  Let's take some phone calls and good evening.
[46:12.790 --> 46:13.490]  You're on Off the Hook.
[46:13.890 --> 46:14.570]  Yes, hi.
[46:14.790 --> 46:15.250]  Hi, how you doing?
[46:15.550 --> 46:36.510]  This is Chris Garvey and I'm an attorney and in the Naomi Wolf 10 Steps to a Fascist United States, one of the steps she mentions is to target certain individuals for repeated arrest and the object of that is to terrorize people.
[46:37.270 --> 46:37.450]  Mm-hmm.
[46:37.590 --> 46:38.370]  Yeah, it seems to work.
[46:39.210 --> 46:39.550]  Yeah.
[46:40.370 --> 46:40.750]  All right.
[46:41.770 --> 46:42.410]  Is that all?
[46:43.030 --> 46:43.590]  That's all.
[46:43.670 --> 46:44.250]  Okay, well, thanks.
[46:44.290 --> 46:49.890]  Well, I could say that I'm running for district attorney out here in Suffolk as a libertarian candidate.
[46:50.190 --> 46:53.070]  All right, well, and the election is coming up, I guess, right?
[46:53.290 --> 46:54.030]  Yes, it is.
[46:54.130 --> 46:54.290]  All right.
[46:54.290 --> 46:58.370]  We've been knocked off the ballot because the political bosses don't want any competition.
[46:58.370 --> 47:04.130]  The district attorney has only been nominated by every political party in Suffolk.
[47:04.290 --> 47:05.850]  Isn't that something when you're voting?
[47:05.950 --> 47:12.410]  It happens to me I vote in Suffolk and I notice that someone's running for Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative.
[47:12.410 --> 47:18.930]  They're running for all possible parties and I could see how you running on a different party might screw that system up.
[47:19.150 --> 47:39.850]  Yeah, it's not as though that there's so many libertarians that it's likely that we could outweigh all five parties but yet they are so afraid of this that a Democratic employee of the Board of Elections sought fit to object to us and because it's a procedural minefield and we didn't have a lot of experience with being objected off the ballot,
[47:40.870 --> 47:47.750]  they managed to to get us on one of the one of those procedural problems.
[47:47.970 --> 47:51.670]  I didn't bring the suit it was brought by our sheriff candidate Steve Kosin.
[47:52.290 --> 48:00.570]  I was actually too lazy to bring an uncompensated lawsuit being an attorney who likes to make money when I bring suit.
[48:00.730 --> 48:02.470]  Well, at least you're honest about that.
[48:02.590 --> 48:03.630]  That's an important thing.
[48:03.910 --> 48:13.750]  I have done pro bono stuff and changed the election law because of some of the stuff I was involved in but ultimately to my surprise I wound up getting paid for that.
[48:16.170 --> 48:32.870]  But, yeah, our sheriff candidate being a young guy was so outraged by the way the Board of Elections was trying to divert and delay him that he said I can't stand this we've got to bring suit even if we lose we've got to bring the suit.
[48:33.150 --> 48:44.810]  So, I gave him some guidance and we had some other attorneys jump in to help because when as Machiavelli says when you are fighting the good fight other people come to your aid who you never expected.
[48:45.070 --> 48:45.770]  That is true.
[48:45.890 --> 48:46.570]  That is true.
[48:47.030 --> 49:03.870]  And so we proceeded and carried the suit through for quite a while and one of the procedural problems that we didn't really have or he didn't think he had time to deal with eventually came forward and stopped the suit.
[49:04.090 --> 49:11.290]  Well, we wish you all the luck and don't let this dissuade you in the future because that's fighting the system that's part of the system.
[49:11.730 --> 49:13.310]  So, best of luck to you.
[49:13.870 --> 49:14.330]  All right.
[49:14.570 --> 49:15.070]  Take care.
[49:15.210 --> 49:16.290]  We're going to move on to another phone call.
[49:16.390 --> 49:18.370]  212-209-2900.
[49:18.730 --> 49:19.110]  Good evening.
[49:19.330 --> 49:20.110]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:21.130 --> 49:21.550]  Hello.
[49:21.710 --> 49:22.090]  Speak up.
[49:22.670 --> 49:23.090]  Oh.
[49:23.310 --> 49:23.690]  Go ahead.
[49:24.030 --> 49:24.290]  Hi.
[49:25.510 --> 49:39.590]  With regard to discriminating against demonstrators, I was involved in a case where clearly there was discrimination against demonstrators during the Giuliani administration here in New York City.
[49:39.590 --> 49:45.330]  They had a written policy for six weeks and it clearly violated the Constitution.
[49:47.050 --> 49:48.550]  And what was that written policy?
[49:48.870 --> 49:52.050]  The written policy was to...
[49:52.050 --> 49:54.410]  This was in May of 2001.
[49:54.610 --> 50:04.890]  To require those who were arrested at demonstrations to be locked up overnight rather than issued desk appearance tickets the jury found yesterday.
[50:05.230 --> 50:08.010]  So we went to federal court on this.
[50:08.170 --> 50:08.990]  And you won.
[50:09.290 --> 50:10.050]  Yeah, I won.
[50:10.210 --> 50:10.550]  All right.
[50:10.770 --> 50:11.910]  Good work on that.
[50:12.110 --> 50:21.310]  But there were others who were arrested for just demonstrating and they were outside that period when there was a written policy.
[50:21.810 --> 50:25.710]  So they didn't win, unfortunately.
[50:26.290 --> 50:26.790]  All right.
[50:26.870 --> 50:27.650]  It's amazing.
[50:28.330 --> 50:29.050]  Thanks for your call.
[50:29.250 --> 50:30.690]  I'll send you the article if you want.
[50:30.730 --> 50:31.250]  Yeah, please do.
[50:31.990 --> 50:34.150]  Email OTH at 2600.com.
[50:34.790 --> 50:37.570]  Well, I have a photocopy of the newspaper article.
[50:37.610 --> 50:44.950]  Okay, then our address here is off the hook here at WBAI 120 Wall Street New York, New York 100005.
[50:45.210 --> 50:46.370]  I haven't said that in a while.
[50:47.130 --> 50:47.530]  100005.
[50:47.710 --> 50:47.970]  Yes.
[50:48.550 --> 50:49.350]  Thanks for your call.
[50:49.510 --> 50:49.910]  Go ahead, Reddick.
[50:50.070 --> 50:50.730]  So wait a minute.
[50:50.730 --> 50:55.450]  So he was they fought being locked up overnight in 2001.
[50:55.470 --> 50:57.210]  I hope you're not asking him a question because he's not No, no, no.
[50:57.250 --> 50:58.990]  But then didn't the same thing happen to you?
[50:59.170 --> 51:00.130]  How did that...
[51:00.130 --> 51:01.890]  Well, that wasn't because of a written policy.
[51:02.030 --> 51:03.390]  That was because they were just simply...
[51:03.390 --> 51:05.290]  They actually were disobeying the law.
[51:05.490 --> 51:08.790]  A judge was telling them, you have to release these people and they weren't doing it.
[51:08.850 --> 51:18.530]  And they started fining them or fining who knows who for every hour that every protester or arrestee was still inside.
[51:19.430 --> 51:22.690]  So it wasn't a written policy per se of the city.
[51:22.870 --> 51:26.270]  It was something that was being observed though, obviously, because it had to do with the RNC.
[51:26.270 --> 51:29.150]  So then when you were locked up overnight or for how many days?
[51:29.450 --> 51:29.810]  Two nights.
[51:30.110 --> 51:32.330]  What was being used then or what law?
[51:32.730 --> 51:34.430]  I don't think any law was being used.
[51:34.450 --> 51:38.990]  If you don't have a written policy, then you can't be found to have an unconstitutional written policy.
[51:39.410 --> 51:40.610]  The city's very clever.
[51:40.730 --> 51:42.910]  So they just did it and that was that.
[51:43.390 --> 51:43.970]  Got it.
[51:44.010 --> 51:44.570]  Pretty much, yeah.
[51:44.710 --> 51:45.930]  They just did whatever they felt like doing.
[51:46.070 --> 51:49.390]  And that's what law enforcement will do, whatever they feel like doing.
[51:49.510 --> 51:49.850]  Right, Barney?
[51:50.730 --> 51:51.170]  Absolutely.
[51:51.390 --> 51:51.990]  They just...
[51:51.990 --> 51:54.390]  People say, well, they can't do that.
[51:54.530 --> 51:57.330]  Well, they do because nobody's going to stop them.
[51:57.450 --> 51:59.330]  So that's why people really need to fight these cases.
[52:00.050 --> 52:00.230]  All right.
[52:00.290 --> 52:00.950]  Let's take another phone call.
[52:01.310 --> 52:01.650]  Good evening.
[52:01.810 --> 52:02.450]  You're on Off the Hook.
[52:03.150 --> 52:03.410]  Whoa.
[52:03.690 --> 52:04.210]  Hey, now.
[52:04.350 --> 52:05.870]  What is up, WBAI?
[52:06.370 --> 52:06.970]  I don't know.
[52:07.050 --> 52:07.990]  What's up with WBAI?
[52:08.450 --> 52:09.170]  Oh, not too much.
[52:09.250 --> 52:09.690]  I just...
[52:09.690 --> 52:10.310]  It was very sudden.
[52:10.370 --> 52:12.390]  I had to run outside so you all didn't hear me on the radio.
[52:13.210 --> 52:14.110]  Two quick things.
[52:14.410 --> 52:17.070]  One regarding the 2001 RNC convention.
[52:17.570 --> 52:21.330]  They had those LRAD, long-range goosicle devices, set up.
[52:21.490 --> 52:22.670]  You mean 2004, right?
[52:22.890 --> 52:23.730]  2004 RNC.
[52:24.350 --> 52:25.090]  You said 2001.
[52:25.090 --> 52:26.430]  Excuse me, I'm...
[52:26.430 --> 52:28.070]  Okay, just want to make sure we got the ear right.
[52:28.250 --> 52:28.430]  All right.
[52:28.510 --> 52:29.590]  That used to be on the radio.
[52:30.510 --> 52:32.570]  But yeah, so they had them all over.
[52:33.370 --> 52:43.730]  Coincidentally, the military has had them first, which is interesting seeing as how they're arresting protesters who are non-violently protesting.
[52:44.250 --> 52:50.290]  And the police is continually using military gear, camouflage.
[52:50.870 --> 52:52.510]  The police have automatic weapons.
[52:53.070 --> 52:58.010]  People I talked to that were around in the 60s that were like, oh, you know, they're not going to do anything.
[52:58.010 --> 53:02.310]  I make the point that the police didn't have automatic weapons in the 60s.
[53:02.490 --> 53:06.210]  They're walking around with revolvers and shotguns in their trunks.
[53:06.310 --> 53:06.910]  And that's it.
[53:07.770 --> 53:11.330]  Anyway, yeah, you guys, stay tuned for the fascist state.
[53:11.490 --> 53:13.930]  It's coming probably within the next 10 years.
[53:14.250 --> 53:14.690]  All right.
[53:14.690 --> 53:16.270]  All right.
[53:16.590 --> 53:18.010]  Well, we'll keep our eyes open.
[53:18.010 --> 53:19.190]  Thanks for the call.
[53:19.630 --> 53:21.010]  Let's see who else is out there.
[53:21.030 --> 53:21.430]  Good evening.
[53:21.750 --> 53:22.550]  You're on Off the Hook.
[53:23.650 --> 53:24.530]  Yes, greetings.
[53:24.810 --> 53:24.990]  Hi.
[53:26.670 --> 53:33.810]  I don't know if maybe we're buying into the language of the prosecution too much, but what is the...
[53:33.810 --> 53:40.590]  Well, the charge is that he is impeding prosecution, but what is the prosecution that he is impeding?
[53:41.670 --> 53:44.070]  Well, I mean, I don't think we're buying into it, are we?
[53:44.290 --> 53:47.770]  We're simply repeating what they're accusing him of.
[53:48.210 --> 53:49.910]  I don't want it to go unnoticed.
[53:50.690 --> 53:53.550]  It's a possibility that there will be a...
[53:53.550 --> 53:59.530]  The charges were hindering prosecution, criminal use of a communication facility, and possessing criminal instruments.
[53:59.530 --> 54:06.150]  I think the idea is that by him giving out information, he's helping people not get arrested, and so that's hindering prosecution.
[54:06.730 --> 54:07.090]  Oh.
[54:07.290 --> 54:11.270]  So by keeping people from getting in trouble, he's actually...
[54:11.270 --> 54:12.370]  Hindering their being prosecuted.
[54:12.610 --> 54:15.550]  Okay, and basically making less prisoners and...
[54:15.550 --> 54:15.690]  Right.
[54:15.870 --> 54:16.450]  Oh, interesting.
[54:16.710 --> 54:19.550]  And more protesters on the streets and the police don't like that.
[54:19.810 --> 54:20.470]  There's no...
[54:20.470 --> 54:22.310]  Statutory language...
[54:22.310 --> 54:28.570]  The statutory language is actually hindering apprehension or prosecution in the first charge.
[54:28.650 --> 54:33.270]  And the other one was criminal use of a communication facility, and the third one is possessing instruments of crime.
[54:33.550 --> 54:38.070]  But it's interesting, the secondary charges seem to hinder upon the first one because if...
[54:38.070 --> 54:45.210]  So, you know, if they weren't doing the first thing, then the second two would have to fall by the wayside, I think.
[54:45.310 --> 54:46.130]  It's like a house of cards.
[54:46.510 --> 54:54.710]  It's interesting that the Post edited it to just be hindering prosecution if you're saying that in the actual charge it was apprehension or prosecution.
[54:55.950 --> 54:57.010]  There is another...
[54:57.010 --> 55:00.230]  I actually looked up the statutory language of what he was charged with.
[55:00.810 --> 55:02.170]  All right, any other point, caller?
[55:03.050 --> 55:04.090]  No, that is all.
[55:04.250 --> 55:07.190]  Just, you know, not to...
[55:07.190 --> 55:12.010]  You know, if one thing doesn't exist, then the other things disappear in a proof of logic.
[55:12.190 --> 55:13.070]  That would be nice, wouldn't it?
[55:13.190 --> 55:14.750]  A conspiracy of one person.
[55:15.270 --> 55:15.550]  Mm-hmm.
[55:15.770 --> 55:16.090]  All right.
[55:16.490 --> 55:17.010]  Go ahead.
[55:17.210 --> 55:18.410]  It doesn't work that way.
[55:18.530 --> 55:26.370]  A lot of technical people seem to believe that if you find a hole in the logic of the prosecution, then suddenly the charges disappear in a proof of logic.
[55:26.550 --> 55:28.310]  But it doesn't actually work that way.
[55:28.590 --> 55:29.890]  You still have to fight them.
[55:30.370 --> 55:30.510]  Yeah.
[55:31.370 --> 55:35.150]  Well, it makes you feel better anyway in that you have a chance to actually maybe win.
[55:35.170 --> 55:37.490]  It would be nice if they didn't try these things in the first place.
[55:37.610 --> 55:41.370]  It would save everybody a lot of time, especially since a lot of them probably are going to get thrown out.
[55:41.430 --> 55:44.170]  And that's why we're talking about it so that people are aware of what a waste of time this is.
[55:44.170 --> 55:52.470]  It's just, you know, the attorneys or the police or whomever trying to, you know, scare people, I guess, and waste our time and money in the process.
[55:52.730 --> 55:53.090]  All right.
[55:53.170 --> 55:54.390]  Our time is out.
[55:54.690 --> 55:56.890]  We're pretty much done for tonight.
[55:57.790 --> 56:00.290]  Next week begins the exciting autumn fundraiser.
[56:00.290 --> 56:01.510]  at WBAI.
[56:01.690 --> 56:06.590]  So, yeah, we're going to have all kinds of fun things happening in the month ahead.
[56:07.330 --> 56:09.950]  And in the hour ahead, the personal computer people are coming up.
[56:10.090 --> 56:13.690]  But right now, we're going to go out with yet another song about computers.
[56:13.850 --> 56:21.910]  And if you have any suggestions on songs we can play or topics we can discuss or things to forward to us, our email address is othat2600.com.
[56:21.990 --> 56:23.470]  Until next week, Emanuel Goldstein for Off the Hook.
[56:23.770 --> 56:24.510]  Have a good night.
[56:25.290 --> 56:26.190]  Don't look at me.
[56:27.650 --> 56:28.050]  Jerk.
[56:29.090 --> 56:30.650]  I hate when people watch me sing.
[56:37.810 --> 56:47.730]  Everyone is so vulnerable on their PC Except for me.
[56:49.820 --> 56:54.280]  The world wide web is so insecure.
[56:55.220 --> 56:57.180]  It's kinda sad.
[56:57.920 --> 57:00.340]  But I'm so glad.
[57:02.300 --> 57:07.500]  I am firewalled in every single way.
[57:08.320 --> 57:12.020]  Nerds can't bring me down.
[57:15.560 --> 57:19.780]  And I run antivirus every single day.
[57:20.160 --> 57:24.380]  Yes, nerds can't bring me down.
[57:25.200 --> 57:26.480]  No, no.
[57:27.840 --> 57:30.980]  Ain't gonna bring me down today.
[57:42.080 --> 57:46.760]  To all you noobs, you're delirious.
[57:47.500 --> 57:49.220]  Your browser blows.
[57:50.300 --> 57:52.800]  You're so exposed.
[57:52.800 --> 57:54.800]  Mmm, yeah.
[57:55.640 --> 58:01.920]  You're trying hard to fix that awful mess that used to be.
[58:02.340 --> 58:07.160]  Your precious PC till you let that virus in.
[58:07.460 --> 58:12.400]  But I'm unhackable no matter what they say.
[58:12.400 --> 58:16.780]  Nerds can't bring me down.
[58:19.000 --> 58:24.200]  My fishing filter told me that this is not eBay.
[58:24.200 --> 58:29.040]  Yes, nerds can't bring me down.
[58:29.860 --> 58:31.140]  Oh, no.
[58:32.060 --> 58:35.020]  Ain't gonna bring me down today.
[58:35.020 --> 58:37.520]  You got your MySpace had to get.
[58:37.520 --> 58:39.020]  you got your MySpace had to get.
[58:39.020 --> 58:41.080]  You're spam commenting your friends.
[58:41.100 --> 58:42.280]  You're spam commenting your friends.
[58:42.280 --> 58:44.380]  You're wondering when it's gonna end.
[58:44.840 --> 58:44.840]  Yeah!
[58:45.580 --> 58:59.940]  Yes, nerds can't bring me down.
[58:59.940 --> 59:04.760]  But I am firewalled in every single way.
[59:05.380 --> 59:10.760]  Nerds can't bring me down, oh no.
[59:11.840 --> 59:16.740]  And I've got spyware blaster chillin' in my tray.
[59:17.520 --> 59:23.100]  Yes, nerds can't bring me down, oh no.
[59:24.420 --> 59:28.220]  Ain't gonna bring me down today.
[59:31.860 --> 59:33.680]  Oh, oh, oh.
[59:37.080 --> 59:40.260]  Ain't gonna bring me down today.
[59:49.170 --> 59:51.930]  Ain't gonna bring me down today.
[59:53.050 --> 59:57.750]  WBAI has come a long way on our path to financial recovery.
[59:58.050 --> 01:00:03.270]  In order to keep that momentum going, we need for you to honor your pledge.
[01:00:03.270 --> 01:00:06.830]  The true measure of a fund drive is in the follow-through.
[01:00:07.050 --> 01:00:10.750]  So when you get that invoice in the mail, please respond.
[01:00:11.150 --> 01:00:14.090]  You can choose to send a check or money order.
[01:00:14.130 --> 01:00:21.010]  Or you can convert your pledge to credit card or pay in installments by electronic funds transfer.
[01:00:21.010 --> 01:00:38.010]  Remember that your support is deeply needed and appreciated by this radio station and by the staff, volunteers, and listeners of WBAI 99.5 FM and WBAI.org.