[00:00.000 --> 00:00.840]  .org.
[00:01.000 --> 00:01.580]  Thanks for listening.
[00:01.820 --> 00:03.640]  In New York, I'm Doran Marina.
[00:17.000 --> 00:19.000]  And you're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:19.140 --> 00:20.460]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[00:20.620 --> 00:22.900]  Time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:28.130 --> 00:32.650]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:33.550 --> 00:35.590]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:36.190 --> 00:38.110]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:38.750 --> 00:40.930]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:43.450 --> 00:46.350]  A billy bump for the best, expect the worst.
[00:47.090 --> 00:48.910]  I hope that's understood.
[00:49.070 --> 00:49.930]  But let me know.
[02:15.270 --> 02:16.210]  And good evening to everybody.
[02:16.330 --> 02:17.250]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:17.330 --> 02:20.270]  Manuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:20.850 --> 02:22.910]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:23.170 --> 02:23.410]  Hi.
[02:23.850 --> 02:24.250]  Red Hack.
[02:24.470 --> 02:24.750]  Hello.
[02:25.370 --> 02:25.790]  Not Kevin.
[02:26.550 --> 02:27.010]  Hello.
[02:27.510 --> 02:27.790]  Jim.
[02:28.470 --> 02:28.770]  Hi.
[02:29.090 --> 02:29.530]  Rob T.
[02:29.730 --> 02:30.210]  Firefly.
[02:30.510 --> 02:30.910]  Good evening.
[02:31.150 --> 02:31.730]  Dot Rhett.
[02:32.210 --> 02:32.650]  Oh, hi.
[02:33.410 --> 02:33.890]  Voltaire?
[02:34.310 --> 02:34.630]  Hey.
[02:34.830 --> 02:35.130]  Wow.
[02:36.150 --> 02:37.310]  We'll get to you in a second.
[02:37.310 --> 02:39.030]  And is Bernie S with us?
[02:39.470 --> 02:39.790]  No.
[02:40.090 --> 02:40.510]  He's not.
[02:40.710 --> 02:42.190]  What happens when you try calling him?
[02:42.310 --> 02:45.370]  I call him and I get some non-U.S.
[02:45.470 --> 02:45.590]  ring.
[02:45.710 --> 02:46.190]  I'll call him again.
[02:46.290 --> 02:46.550]  Come on.
[02:46.670 --> 02:47.210]  Call him on the air.
[02:47.290 --> 02:48.150]  I want to hear that ring.
[02:48.830 --> 02:50.050]  Let's judge what kind of ring it is.
[02:50.210 --> 02:54.690]  First of all, you're calling his Sprint PCS phone, which doesn't work overseas for the most part.
[02:54.990 --> 02:57.510]  But maybe you're not dialing.
[02:58.270 --> 02:59.550]  I don't hear a dial tone.
[02:59.730 --> 03:00.550]  Oh, I turn it down.
[03:00.690 --> 03:00.970]  Okay.
[03:01.070 --> 03:01.290]  All right.
[03:01.370 --> 03:01.850]  There we go.
[03:02.150 --> 03:03.150]  But we don't want it to number.
[03:03.150 --> 03:03.490]  Yeah.
[03:04.010 --> 03:05.530]  I didn't want to give out his name.
[03:05.670 --> 03:06.250]  I messed up.
[03:06.370 --> 03:06.510]  Yeah.
[03:06.570 --> 03:06.930]  You sure did.
[03:07.630 --> 03:07.950]  Yeah.
[03:08.070 --> 03:10.350]  So Bernie S, last we checked, was in China.
[03:10.350 --> 03:12.590]  We have not heard a word from him since last week's show.
[03:13.590 --> 03:14.030]  Oh, dear.
[03:14.090 --> 03:17.130]  And what was the last words we left him with?
[03:17.290 --> 03:18.350]  They weren't hostile, were they?
[03:18.530 --> 03:19.170]  I don't think so.
[03:19.190 --> 03:19.430]  Okay.
[03:19.530 --> 03:21.570]  Well, then there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to call him.
[03:23.090 --> 03:24.190]  It takes a while.
[03:24.390 --> 03:24.830]  It does take a while.
[03:24.830 --> 03:26.350]  I dialed, and it's just, you know...
[03:26.350 --> 03:27.630]  Well, CDMA... There it goes.
[03:27.790 --> 03:28.410]  I'll listen to that.
[03:28.650 --> 03:30.590]  But it's actually seven in the morning there.
[03:30.770 --> 03:30.950]  Yeah.
[03:31.050 --> 03:32.530]  Well, I might be waking someone up.
[03:32.830 --> 03:33.290]  Not him, though.
[03:33.290 --> 03:33.950]  But it's a hotel, isn't it?
[03:34.830 --> 03:35.190]  What?
[03:35.370 --> 03:36.570]  I called his U.S.
[03:36.890 --> 03:37.270]  telephone number.
[03:37.430 --> 03:37.530]  Oh, that's right.
[03:37.530 --> 03:37.730]  That's right.
[03:37.770 --> 03:39.570]  Last week, we were trying to call his hotel.
[03:39.810 --> 03:40.970]  But now we're calling his actual phone.
[03:41.150 --> 03:44.110]  But if he does pick this up, it's going to cost him a pretty penny.
[03:44.310 --> 03:47.210]  He's probably annoyed that we're calling him and he's not paying you know.
[03:47.310 --> 03:48.370]  Well, he's annoyed for a variety of reasons.
[03:48.530 --> 03:51.270]  Number one, we're calling him at seven in the morning in China.
[03:52.550 --> 03:53.450]  Well, seven in the morning anywhere.
[03:53.930 --> 03:57.990]  Number two, he's probably paying for every ring, you know.
[03:58.790 --> 03:59.090]  Hi.
[03:59.230 --> 04:00.370]  Sorry, I can't take your call now.
[04:00.370 --> 04:08.370]  In fact, if we leave this message for him, what happens when you travel overseas, sometimes if it alerts you that you have a message, that costs you money.
[04:08.490 --> 04:08.970]  But let's find out.
[04:08.970 --> 04:09.710]  We should leave a message then.
[04:10.250 --> 04:11.050]  Hi, Bernie.
[04:11.310 --> 04:14.230]  Oh, he got rid of the whole thing that says, press one to do this.
[04:14.390 --> 04:16.210]  And if you want to send a page, press this.
[04:16.390 --> 04:18.950]  You know, the message by the lady was longer than his message.
[04:19.430 --> 04:21.310]  But Bernie, we're calling you from the radio show.
[04:21.410 --> 04:21.770]  Remember that?
[04:22.090 --> 04:22.870]  And you're in China.
[04:23.110 --> 04:28.430]  And we're curious if just the notification that you got this message from us cost you money.
[04:29.090 --> 04:31.630]  Because that's how GSM works in some countries.
[04:31.850 --> 04:32.970]  But you're on CDMA.
[04:33.170 --> 04:35.210]  And it's kind of funny that your phone even works over there in China.
[04:35.250 --> 04:36.950]  Maybe you don't know your phone works in China, but it does.
[04:37.330 --> 04:42.610]  I sure hope that you're not calling your voicemail to listen to this message.
[04:42.770 --> 04:44.210]  Because it's probably going to go over a minute, you know.
[04:44.290 --> 04:46.010]  And who knows how expensive it is.
[04:46.330 --> 04:47.710]  But everyone should say hello to Bernie.
[04:48.010 --> 04:49.810]  He's probably sleeping somewhere.
[04:50.370 --> 04:51.050]  Hi, Bernie.
[04:51.050 --> 04:51.330]  Hello, Bernie.
[04:51.410 --> 04:52.050]  We're all here.
[04:52.710 --> 04:54.990]  Yes, Dot Red and Voltaire is back.
[04:55.210 --> 04:55.850]  And Rob T.
[04:55.950 --> 05:00.830]  Firefly and Jim and RedHacked and not Kevin and Mike and you're Bernie and me.
[05:01.750 --> 05:02.330]  We're all here.
[05:02.390 --> 05:03.050]  And of course, the listeners.
[05:03.770 --> 05:06.050]  The listeners don't get to leave part of the message, though.
[05:06.190 --> 05:06.310]  All right.
[05:06.410 --> 05:08.150]  Now we don't talk and see what happens.
[05:08.310 --> 05:10.050]  Is it going to give us a... What'd you do?
[05:10.070 --> 05:10.430]  You hung up?
[05:10.510 --> 05:10.890]  I hung up.
[05:10.950 --> 05:11.650]  Why'd you hang up?
[05:12.330 --> 05:13.470]  Specifically, we don't talk.
[05:13.550 --> 05:14.250]  Oh, we don't talk.
[05:14.530 --> 05:15.910]  I don't know how these things work.
[05:16.110 --> 05:16.390]  Boy.
[05:16.610 --> 05:16.810]  Okay.
[05:16.990 --> 05:18.190]  Well, hopefully that gets through to him.
[05:18.250 --> 05:19.410]  And maybe we'll keep an eye on the phone.
[05:19.510 --> 05:20.130]  Maybe he'll call us.
[05:20.330 --> 05:20.630]  All right.
[05:21.210 --> 05:21.570]  Okay.
[05:21.590 --> 05:22.790]  So what's been happening this week?
[05:22.890 --> 05:24.970]  We're still in fundraising mode.
[05:24.970 --> 05:27.690]  And we have some special things to give out.
[05:27.930 --> 05:30.110]  But actually, Voltaire, you're back.
[05:30.290 --> 05:36.130]  Now, kind of like to... Last we checked with you, you were on your way to Washington, D.C.
[05:36.310 --> 05:37.890]  to go to college.
[05:38.130 --> 05:39.530]  And now here you are back in New York.
[05:39.650 --> 05:40.650]  So what gives?
[05:41.090 --> 05:44.530]  Well, I'm taking an indefinite leave from the university.
[05:44.950 --> 05:49.230]  I was at George Washington University, a fine institution, if I do say so myself.
[05:49.510 --> 05:56.570]  But I was having mental health difficulties and taking a mental health withdrawal.
[05:56.850 --> 06:01.110]  So it's... I was actually... I didn't know anything about it until like towards the end.
[06:01.270 --> 06:10.430]  And it's a great program that I know they have a lot of universities that you get to keep your... all your financial aid and all your credits and stuff.
[06:10.590 --> 06:13.970]  You get to take and take an indefinite leave, basically.
[06:14.350 --> 06:17.830]  What told you that you needed to take a leave from the place?
[06:18.090 --> 06:27.450]  Just like I was having not homesick issues, but like depression issues that I needed support that I didn't have there, but that they had at home.
[06:27.590 --> 06:32.350]  So I didn't have all the things in...
[06:32.350 --> 06:37.230]  support structures there that I do here, so...
[06:37.230 --> 06:41.970]  Well, I mean, what you're going through, what you went through is something I hear a lot from people.
[06:42.030 --> 06:45.710]  In fact, you know, when I was going to college, I know people that went through that as well.
[06:46.590 --> 06:58.150]  But it definitely takes guts to admit that, to say that, you know, you got to duck out of this for at least for a little while and deal with whatever issues that you might be going through.
[06:58.530 --> 07:00.290]  Was it hard reaching that decision?
[07:00.290 --> 07:01.130]  No, really.
[07:01.290 --> 07:04.830]  As soon as... I think the hardest part was actually reaching out for help.
[07:05.050 --> 07:09.150]  And even though it's like a small step, it's the biggest one.
[07:09.330 --> 07:20.070]  And after that, a lot of people will... are like afraid of... or feel stigmatized going to like the mental health facilities at a school or any institution.
[07:20.450 --> 07:27.330]  And I think it's a great resource that I know that like probably all universities and colleges have.
[07:27.490 --> 07:28.350]  You'd be surprised.
[07:28.350 --> 07:38.670]  Well, I mean, I'm sure there are lots of people listening right now who are in school or starting school or something like that, that probably are close to or over the breaking point.
[07:39.010 --> 07:45.470]  And I think maybe hearing you tell us about how you dealt with it and it was able to be resolved.
[07:45.950 --> 07:49.110]  I mean, some people will think it's the unthinkable that I can't finish this.
[07:49.170 --> 07:50.210]  I have to leave.
[07:50.690 --> 07:53.170]  And I mean, do you feel failure from this?
[07:53.270 --> 07:54.430]  Do you feel like it's a new beginning?
[07:54.430 --> 08:00.250]  I mean, I feel a little bit of, I guess, guilt, but I think that's normal.
[08:01.030 --> 08:05.070]  I feel a little bit relieved that the pressure's gone.
[08:06.070 --> 08:10.610]  And I feel it's nice to have all the support of my family back home.
[08:10.910 --> 08:11.150]  Definitely.
[08:11.350 --> 08:13.090]  And your friends.
[08:13.090 --> 08:13.490]  Yes.
[08:13.750 --> 08:14.090]  Yeah.
[08:14.170 --> 08:14.750]  You're the station.
[08:15.010 --> 08:18.030]  So now, what do you think you'll do in the future?
[08:18.190 --> 08:19.410]  Are you still trying to figure that out?
[08:19.810 --> 08:21.090]  I'm still thinking about that.
[08:21.330 --> 08:29.590]  I have the option of going back January or next September, or basically whenever, but I don't know if I'm going to take the time to explore.
[08:30.150 --> 08:43.130]  I was majoring in international affairs, but I'm going to take the time while I'm here to explore some other hobbies I'm interested in, like filmmaking, and maybe do some more activism, writing, stuff like that.
[08:43.450 --> 08:44.230]  Well, you know, it's interesting.
[08:44.530 --> 08:53.650]  It reminds me of back in my college days when I was going through hell, and I think I was in the third, yeah, I think the third year of school, and I was still going through hell.
[08:54.110 --> 08:58.070]  I mean, I went through the whole thing in the first semester where I was doubting whether or not I should even be going to this place.
[08:58.610 --> 09:02.050]  But after, it was obvious I was going to fail this course.
[09:02.070 --> 09:03.290]  I think it was Chinese philosophy.
[09:03.470 --> 09:04.510]  God knows why I was taking this.
[09:04.810 --> 09:11.150]  But the guy was real hard-ass as far as grading, and there's just no way I could memorize all the things I had to memorize.
[09:11.430 --> 09:20.230]  And I just sat down and thought, you know what, if I just go to school for another year, yeah, okay, I'm taking the five-year plan instead of the normal four-year plan.
[09:20.490 --> 09:26.930]  But think of how much stress that will relieve from my head and how much I'll be able to accomplish.
[09:27.670 --> 09:33.810]  And what you might be discouraged from doing by many people, oftentimes, is the right move.
[09:34.090 --> 09:40.890]  And it sounds to me like, A, you reached that decision, and B, you didn't really have a whole lot of pressure from people telling you that's a bad idea.
[09:40.970 --> 09:42.750]  It sounds like you have a good support network.
[09:42.970 --> 09:56.330]  Yeah, I think that, at least it was the case for me, and I expect it's the case for most people that the biggest pressure comes from, not from, like, other people telling you what to do, but, like, you, uh, um, imagining what other people would say.
[09:56.490 --> 10:02.610]  And, um, that's kind of what told you back, social pressure, and just, like, being too hard on yourself, so...
[10:03.230 --> 10:03.670]  All right.
[10:03.730 --> 10:14.090]  Well, I'm glad you, you made the right decision, and that you're not, uh, subjecting yourself to too much, uh, craziness and too much pressure, and I'm, I'm sure that, uh, you're gonna find the right path at some point.
[10:14.230 --> 10:16.610]  So, Voltaire, back in New York, so you're here indefinitely now.
[10:16.730 --> 10:16.930]  Yes.
[10:17.010 --> 10:18.010]  Well, that's good news for the listeners.
[10:18.310 --> 10:18.370]  Yeah.
[10:18.370 --> 10:18.970]  Good news for us.
[10:19.470 --> 10:19.810]  Great.
[10:19.810 --> 10:20.830]  All right.
[10:20.990 --> 10:27.850]  Well, uh, and maybe you'll be answering phones later, too, so, uh, people calling in to pledge, you can actually, uh, hear your happy voice back here in New York City.
[10:28.110 --> 10:28.570]  Welcome back.
[10:28.890 --> 10:29.070]  Thanks.
[10:29.630 --> 10:34.430]  Um, okay, well, um, anything in the news that people wish to, uh, discuss?
[10:35.330 --> 10:35.630]  No?
[10:35.750 --> 10:35.930]  Nothing?
[10:36.150 --> 10:36.570]  Oh, yeah.
[10:36.990 --> 10:37.150]  Yeah?
[10:38.230 --> 10:44.990]  Well, Jim, you always have a knapsack filled with, filled with articles, but I, uh, um, Mike, looks like you have something on your mind.
[10:44.990 --> 10:47.090]  Britain is just going further and further down the tubes.
[10:47.390 --> 10:48.090]  Well, yeah, we know that.
[10:48.550 --> 10:49.930]  I can't even discuss this.
[10:50.010 --> 10:50.630]  Well, what do they do now?
[10:50.730 --> 10:52.250]  Don't, don't ever, I don't, I don't know.
[10:53.150 --> 10:53.690]  They, they, they are...
[10:53.690 --> 10:56.550]  Well said as always, but, uh...
[10:56.550 --> 11:06.050]  There's the first ever, uh, so there's this woman who was being spied upon, being followed around, because it was thought she had enrolled her child in a school that she wasn't entitled to enroll her child in.
[11:06.190 --> 11:06.390]  Uh-huh.
[11:06.450 --> 11:18.090]  So the long arm of the British surveillance state came and followed her around, and she's actually gonna be the first woman to, uh, the first person to, uh, get a hearing on whether or not this is allowed.
[11:18.510 --> 11:19.690]  So it's kind of exciting.
[11:19.870 --> 11:22.310]  Okay, so they follow people around to see if they actually live there.
[11:22.370 --> 11:26.150]  They follow people around to see if they're supposed to be throwing trash in the right, in a particular receptacle.
[11:26.490 --> 11:28.170]  Uh, they're doing all kinds of things like that.
[11:28.310 --> 11:28.910]  How about this one?
[11:28.910 --> 11:31.750]  This story, I think, uh, tops a lot of stories.
[11:32.330 --> 11:39.090]  Um, a shop assistant, um, was basically in trouble for singing in a store.
[11:39.310 --> 11:45.090]  What happened was, uh, wherever Clack Manenshire, Clack Manenshire...
[11:45.090 --> 11:45.730]  That's her name?
[11:45.730 --> 11:49.110]  No, that's, that's the town, uh, that she, she lived in.
[11:49.170 --> 11:51.230]  She worked at an A&T food store.
[11:51.350 --> 11:53.290]  That, that's a mixture between A&P and AT&T.
[11:53.550 --> 11:56.050]  Uh, A&T food store.
[11:56.050 --> 12:06.130]  Uh, what happened first of all was that, um, the music industry, uh, took exception to the fact that they were playing a radio where people could, um, uh, could hear it, where customers could hear it.
[12:06.230 --> 12:07.730]  And they have to pay a license fee for that.
[12:07.830 --> 12:10.150]  They have to pay a license fee, uh, in order to do this.
[12:10.250 --> 12:11.310]  So they took the radio out.
[12:11.410 --> 12:12.390]  And what do you think happened?
[12:13.050 --> 12:20.010]  Sandra Burt, 56 years old, started singing instead while she was, she was, she was unable to stop herself singing at work.
[12:20.550 --> 12:36.630]  And, uh, the, uh, the, uh, PRS, which is the Performing Rights Society, somebody contacted the store to warn them that a license was needed, uh, to, uh, uh, to have somebody singing as well, um, for not having a performance license.
[12:36.810 --> 12:38.230]  So she could be fined thousands of pounds.
[12:38.330 --> 12:38.830]  Well, guess what?
[12:39.310 --> 12:46.790]  Uh, this hit the newspapers and the PRS contacted Mrs. Burt to apologize and say that we're very sorry.
[12:46.910 --> 12:47.650]  We made a big mistake.
[12:47.650 --> 12:49.790]  We hear you have a lovely singing voice and we wish you good luck.
[12:49.790 --> 12:52.910]  Now the thing is, this is a nice ending to a story.
[12:53.030 --> 12:55.510]  And everyone's saying that, uh, okay, you know, right prevail.
[12:55.610 --> 12:58.850]  But the only reason right prevailed is because of the publicity that surrounded it.
[12:58.930 --> 13:00.150]  This isn't what they're saying.
[13:00.390 --> 13:03.170]  This is them saying, oh boy, you know, we're, we're looking bad now.
[13:03.170 --> 13:05.150]  So we're going to modify our position.
[13:05.430 --> 13:05.790]  Exactly.
[13:05.990 --> 13:08.270]  These kind of copyright associations and stuff.
[13:08.390 --> 13:10.250]  They, they tend to go after people.
[13:10.370 --> 13:18.690]  And as soon as something, you know, major hits the news and they look bad, then, okay, they'll apologize to that one person, but they're still going to go after the 10 other people that they're going after.
[13:18.690 --> 13:19.170]  Absolutely.
[13:20.190 --> 13:22.930]  It's all about image and not really about what's right and wrong.
[13:23.090 --> 13:23.630]  Not Kevin.
[13:23.910 --> 13:26.670]  Now I'm wondering, how did they find out that she was singing?
[13:26.790 --> 13:29.330]  Someone just walking by the door and saying, wait, she doesn't have a license for that.
[13:29.430 --> 13:30.110]  This is the UK.
[13:30.310 --> 13:33.370]  Everyone's watching everyone, so that doesn't surprise me at all.
[13:33.410 --> 13:34.610]  They saw it through the telescreen.
[13:34.710 --> 13:37.630]  Yeah, I'm sure there's some way that they did that.
[13:38.770 --> 13:40.310]  Okay, we have a bunch of things.
[13:40.510 --> 13:41.210]  This is a special program.
[13:41.390 --> 13:48.090]  We have a bunch of things that we're going to be highlighting tonight and hopefully enticing you to give us a call and pledge support.
[13:48.090 --> 13:50.070]  We want to thank the people who called the last two weeks.
[13:50.070 --> 13:54.710]  However, we still have two weeks left to go and we need people to call in.
[13:54.870 --> 13:58.150]  The phone number to call is 212-209-2950.
[13:58.150 --> 13:59.050]  We have some good news.
[13:59.110 --> 14:05.430]  We have some good news for the folks last week who were gnashing their teeth and kicking their pets and things when they couldn't get the polo shirts.
[14:05.530 --> 14:07.090]  We still have the polo shirts.
[14:07.190 --> 14:08.830]  We decided to extend that one more week.
[14:08.950 --> 14:22.770]  So for a $75 pledge, you'll get either a black or a tan polo shirt, brand new, have not yet been released, but will be very soon, for $2,600 Waste Management.
[14:23.130 --> 14:23.810]  Yes, that's right.
[14:23.950 --> 14:24.910]  Trashing since 1984.
[14:24.970 --> 14:26.650]  That will be on your polo shirt.
[14:27.050 --> 14:30.450]  It's something that you can wear proudly to work and to all kinds of formal occasions as well.
[14:30.650 --> 14:32.650]  For a pledge of $75, you'll get that.
[14:32.790 --> 14:35.850]  Plus, you'll get a full off-the-hook audio archive.
[14:36.030 --> 14:39.970]  That's 20 years of radio shows and full FM quality.
[14:39.970 --> 14:43.010]  But you've got to call 212-209-2950.
[14:43.490 --> 14:49.330]  Now, we have an additional premium that we're offering tonight that is brand new.
[14:49.350 --> 14:57.810]  And that's for a pledge of $125, you'll get the off-the-hook audio archive plus five years of 2600 Magazine.
[14:58.210 --> 15:06.430]  So you'll be able to really go back in history and learn all kinds of things and just basically have a great time at the same time.
[15:06.630 --> 15:07.050]  What do you think?
[15:07.050 --> 15:08.710]  212-209-2950.
[15:08.710 --> 15:17.210]  We should point out that this week and next week are special opportunities for our listeners overseas because Europe is no longer in daylight saving time.
[15:17.410 --> 15:18.570]  And we still are.
[15:18.710 --> 15:20.890]  So it's an hour earlier over there.
[15:21.010 --> 15:32.750]  So if you're in the UK and you don't like to stay up as late as you would normally have to, or if you're in Europe and it's an hour later but it's still not as late as you normally have to, now and next week are the weeks to come.
[15:32.890 --> 15:34.210]  Does all of Europe do that?
[15:34.510 --> 15:34.770]  Yeah.
[15:34.770 --> 15:34.790]  Yeah.
[15:35.610 --> 15:36.330]  EU rule.
[15:36.590 --> 15:39.170]  They have to get out of daylight saving time all at the same time.
[15:39.550 --> 15:42.890]  But us American laggards want to stick with it past Halloween.
[15:42.990 --> 15:44.570]  What about those countries that are not part of the EU?
[15:44.630 --> 15:45.150]  What about Switzerland?
[15:45.350 --> 15:45.750]  What happens there?
[15:45.910 --> 15:48.290]  They obey the rule because they're surrounded by the EU.
[15:48.710 --> 15:50.090]  Doesn't sound very Swiss to me.
[15:50.650 --> 15:51.050]  Well...
[15:51.050 --> 15:53.250]  They don't obey the rules when they're surrounded by countries usually.
[15:53.510 --> 15:54.950]  Swiss people always obey the rules.
[15:55.110 --> 15:56.490]  Well, I don't know.
[15:56.570 --> 15:58.230]  They tend to resist.
[15:58.590 --> 15:59.510]  They have a strong resistance.
[15:59.510 --> 16:01.610]  What other stereotypes about Switzerland can we come up with?
[16:02.110 --> 16:02.970]  Cheese, I suppose.
[16:03.190 --> 16:04.010]  A gold or...
[16:04.010 --> 16:04.190]  Clocks.
[16:04.970 --> 16:05.550]  Clocks, of course.
[16:05.590 --> 16:06.130]  Clocks, yeah.
[16:06.270 --> 16:06.830]  All kinds of things.
[16:06.930 --> 16:08.670]  All a matter of stereotypes.
[16:09.130 --> 16:11.910]  They have three nationalities of stereotypes working for them.
[16:12.230 --> 16:12.430]  Really?
[16:12.670 --> 16:12.850]  Yeah.
[16:13.390 --> 16:13.510]  Hmm.
[16:13.630 --> 16:13.910]  Interesting.
[16:14.030 --> 16:15.670]  I've yet to find a Swiss speaker, though.
[16:16.210 --> 16:17.350]  You know, anyone who speaks the language.
[16:17.490 --> 16:18.110]  Oh, they're there.
[16:18.210 --> 16:18.510]  They're there.
[16:18.570 --> 16:21.150]  It's not the same as regular German, the language they speak.
[16:21.150 --> 16:21.730]  I would hope not.
[16:21.930 --> 16:23.550]  212-209-2950.
[16:23.650 --> 16:33.270]  What we're going to do is go back in time and place something from the Off the Hook archives so that you get a sense as to what it is you're getting when you call and pledge.
[16:34.150 --> 16:37.310]  For a pledge of $75, you'll get the full archive, all 20 years.
[16:38.010 --> 16:41.090]  And you'll also get your choice of color of a polo shirt.
[16:41.170 --> 16:44.550]  For the 125, you'll get the archive plus five years of 2,600 back issues.
[16:44.730 --> 16:50.510]  Everybody calling 212-209-2950 and pledging 25 or above will get an Off the Hook t-shirt.
[16:50.510 --> 16:52.950]  And those are pretty exclusive.
[16:53.490 --> 16:54.210]  It's a lot of stuff.
[16:54.370 --> 16:55.310]  It is a lot of stuff.
[16:55.310 --> 16:56.710]  It's almost too much stuff.
[16:57.050 --> 17:01.810]  But the only way to get it is to call us within the next hour, 212-209-2950.
[17:01.990 --> 17:05.910]  Now, we're going to go back to 1990, January 18th, 1990.
[17:06.550 --> 17:08.850]  Anyone here alive during that period?
[17:09.310 --> 17:09.750]  Almost.
[17:10.230 --> 17:11.050]  I don't know.
[17:11.050 --> 17:11.790]  I think I was sick that week.
[17:11.950 --> 17:12.690]  Well, okay.
[17:13.970 --> 17:16.210]  You've heard of the Martin Luther King phone incident?
[17:16.790 --> 17:18.070]  Martin Luther King Day phone incident?
[17:18.350 --> 17:18.610]  No.
[17:18.750 --> 17:19.010]  No?
[17:19.230 --> 17:20.050]  This is amazing.
[17:20.050 --> 17:21.290]  That's why I need the archive.
[17:21.610 --> 17:28.030]  People on staff here, people who are part of the show, have to listen to the show to hear what happened.
[17:28.230 --> 17:29.930]  I mean, we didn't all experience this.
[17:30.030 --> 17:33.210]  Basically, what happened was it was Martin Luther King Day holiday.
[17:33.290 --> 17:35.490]  I think it was the 18th.
[17:35.570 --> 17:35.850]  No, it wasn't.
[17:35.970 --> 17:37.110]  The 18th was the show.
[17:37.130 --> 17:40.810]  I think it was the 16th or the 15th or maybe the 17th.
[17:40.990 --> 17:49.430]  One of those days where basically the phone network for AT&T just crashed completely and nobody could make phone calls.
[17:49.430 --> 17:52.190]  The whole thing just fell apart.
[17:53.030 --> 17:57.330]  And, of course, it turned out to be some kind of software problem, some kind of mistake.
[17:58.870 --> 18:00.390]  But it led to a lot of questions.
[18:00.530 --> 18:04.230]  For one thing, there were all kinds of different ways of making phone calls and people didn't know about it.
[18:04.290 --> 18:09.490]  People didn't know how to make a phone call with MCI or with Sprint because AT&T wasn't telling anybody how to do this.
[18:09.490 --> 18:15.290]  And we later did all kinds of experiments where we would call different phone companies and ask them, how do I make a phone call on AT&T?
[18:15.410 --> 18:20.050]  And everybody would tell you, but AT&T would never tell you how to make a phone call with one of their competitors.
[18:20.150 --> 18:21.530]  So that turned into a whole big thing there.
[18:22.870 --> 18:27.890]  So this is basically some talk of what happened shortly after it happened.
[18:27.890 --> 18:38.550]  And I think it drives home the immediacy of little points in history where we were right there at the time it happened and lending expertise that you wouldn't hear in the mass media.
[18:39.290 --> 18:39.430]  All right.
[18:39.490 --> 18:40.850]  212-209-2950.
[18:40.850 --> 18:47.510]  While this is playing, give us a call and you'll get the full audio archive of Off the Hook and hear all kinds of history.
[18:48.170 --> 18:48.970]  Shall we begin?
[18:49.410 --> 18:50.010]  All right.
[18:50.090 --> 18:51.350]  Let's say the number one more time.
[18:51.510 --> 18:53.370]  212-209-2950.
[18:53.470 --> 18:54.750]  And then we can begin.
[18:54.750 --> 18:55.350]  Okay.
[18:55.650 --> 18:56.050]  All right.
[18:56.510 --> 18:58.010]  It looks like you have something to say, right, Hack?
[18:58.250 --> 19:00.810]  No, I'm just hoping that you're going to let us hear it in the studio.
[19:00.930 --> 19:01.150]  Yeah.
[19:01.250 --> 19:03.350]  You look really eager to hear this.
[19:03.350 --> 19:06.930]  And I hope our listeners are as eager, too, because this is a real trip down memory lane.
[19:07.110 --> 19:11.470]  And those are always pleasant because the present, the current day is never happy.
[19:11.870 --> 19:14.930]  Looking back in time, though, it's always a more innocent time.
[19:14.990 --> 19:15.670]  Let's go back then.
[19:16.010 --> 19:17.330]  Almost 20 years ago.
[19:17.470 --> 19:17.630]  Wow.
[19:18.150 --> 19:18.690]  To 1990.
[19:18.770 --> 19:21.450]  What you'll get when you call 212-209-2950.
[19:21.550 --> 19:22.730]  This and so much more.
[19:35.270 --> 19:38.750]  When was the last time you made a prank phone call?
[19:38.970 --> 19:42.230]  When was the last time you received a prank phone call?
[19:44.630 --> 19:46.370]  Well, that could all be changing.
[19:47.710 --> 19:55.990]  Because soon, every time you make a phone call, the people on the other end will know who you are.
[19:57.270 --> 20:00.610]  And soon, they'll know where you are.
[20:02.590 --> 20:09.210]  And in the not-too-distant future, they'll even know what you want.
[20:14.200 --> 20:15.440]  Does that trouble you?
[20:15.580 --> 20:17.320]  Do you think it's scary?
[20:19.480 --> 20:22.320]  How could high-tech be scary?
[20:25.690 --> 20:27.010]  Well, I can tell you this.
[20:28.310 --> 20:31.370]  High-tech can be unpredictable.
[20:37.830 --> 20:39.410]  Unless, of course, it's a record player.
[20:44.200 --> 20:48.020]  Well, high-tech certainly was unpredictable on Monday, wasn't it?
[20:48.680 --> 20:50.780]  Well, not for some of us.
[20:50.820 --> 20:53.660]  Some of us always knew that day would come.
[20:54.700 --> 20:58.700]  The day the bell system died.
[21:00.000 --> 21:01.380]  It really happened.
[21:02.540 --> 21:03.700]  It really happened.
[21:07.760 --> 21:12.400]  American Telephone and Telegraph Company technicians worked through the night.
[21:12.940 --> 21:19.040]  Trying to pinpoint and correct a problem that disrupted long-distance service nationwide, officials said on Thursday.
[21:19.820 --> 21:23.960]  Service was crippled at about 2.20...
[21:24.440 --> 21:25.180]  That's odd.
[21:25.680 --> 21:26.720]  They said it on Thursday.
[21:26.720 --> 21:28.180]  I got this press release on Tuesday.
[21:28.900 --> 21:29.540]  Okay.
[21:29.540 --> 21:33.100]  Well, anyway, service was crippled about 2.20 p.m.
[21:33.320 --> 21:49.080]  Eastern Standard Time when AT&T long-distance callers began receiving recorded messages saying the company's network, which, in case you didn't know, is the largest in the nation, the recorded messages saying the network was overloaded.
[21:49.260 --> 21:55.080]  Phone calls within local areas around the nation were apparently not affected, and there was no estimate on when the problem would be solved.
[21:55.080 --> 21:58.040]  This is before the problem was solved.
[21:59.040 --> 22:05.100]  Early in the afternoon, most long-distance callers received a recorded message saying, All circuits are busy now.
[22:05.200 --> 22:06.300]  Please try later.
[22:06.360 --> 22:07.260]  But by 7 p.m.
[22:07.420 --> 22:11.360]  Eastern Standard Time, about half the calls were going through.
[22:11.700 --> 22:14.740]  Or, depending on your outlook, half the calls weren't going through.
[22:16.280 --> 22:29.400]  According to a spokesman, the service outage was caused by a problem with the company's computer software and was not related to a mechanical difficulty or a computer virus.
[22:30.720 --> 22:37.080]  It appears to be a problem in the software used to route calls all over the country, the spokesperson said.
[22:37.260 --> 22:41.900]  It's a nationwide problem affecting regular long-distance and business service, as well as 800 numbers.
[22:42.820 --> 22:49.860]  We've ruled out natural disaster and someone digging a ditch too deeply, said Burke Stinson, an AT&T spokesman in New Jersey.
[22:50.100 --> 22:57.720]  It appears the problem is in a signaling system that essentially calls to the network and says which route the calls travel.
[22:58.480 --> 23:06.280]  Stinson said a signaling circuit apparently sent a message to the national network saying that all circuits were busy when they actually were not.
[23:06.540 --> 23:08.440]  But then, of course, they were.
[23:09.400 --> 23:11.320]  It's amazing how it works sometimes.
[23:12.040 --> 23:15.980]  There are more than 100 AT&T switching centers around the country.
[23:16.960 --> 23:20.500]  And long-distance calls normally can take one of 14 different paths.
[23:20.820 --> 23:25.980]  The outages were spread across the country, she said, the spokesperson who you now know is a woman.
[23:27.060 --> 23:35.880]  AT&T handles about 80 million calls each business day, but because many offices were closed Monday for Martin Luther King holiday, the load was lower.
[23:36.640 --> 23:46.300]  AT&T computer specialists were working diligently, and for some reason they put that in quotes, to fix the software problem, but it was unclear when full service would be restored.
[23:46.520 --> 23:52.320]  Again, that's because this came out on either Tuesday or Thursday, depending on which part of the release you believe.
[23:52.320 --> 24:01.240]  The AT&T National Network Operations Headquarters is in Bedminster, New Jersey, and computer scientists there were studying the software to determine the cause of the outage.
[24:04.310 --> 24:09.030]  Customers whose calls were blocked on AT&T lines were able to use other long-distance companies.
[24:09.410 --> 24:10.550]  Both U.S.
[24:10.730 --> 24:21.450]  Sprint, based in Kansas City, Missouri, and MCI Communications Corporation, based in Washington, D.C., issued statements saying their lines were not experiencing any difficulties.
[24:22.730 --> 24:32.010]  Abbott recommended against callers using the other companies, saying people having difficulties with AT&T lines should continue trying to make calls.
[24:33.870 --> 24:38.570]  As the number of calls drop off toward the end of the day, chances get better, she said.
[24:38.730 --> 24:42.770]  If you don't get through the first time, you'll get through the second time.
[24:45.210 --> 24:52.130]  Did anyone out there try to make a phone call on Monday using AT&T and not get through the first time, and then get through the second time?
[24:53.610 --> 24:59.630]  When I heard about this, and I must have gotten several dozen calls from people saying, OK, what did you do?
[25:00.470 --> 25:01.450]  I mean, really?
[25:04.830 --> 25:07.590]  When I first got the phone call, I decided, OK, I'm going to try this.
[25:07.690 --> 25:10.030]  I'm going to see if it's really as bad as everyone is saying.
[25:10.230 --> 25:12.130]  And I decided to make a call to California.
[25:12.790 --> 25:13.590]  Call California.
[25:14.590 --> 25:19.510]  And what the media calls a busy signal is actually a reorder.
[25:20.770 --> 25:22.490]  Okay, let's see if I can do this on the air.
[25:22.850 --> 25:25.670]  I'm going to try to demonstrate what a reorder is.
[25:27.190 --> 25:30.570]  This may take a little bit of time, but I should be able to do it.
[25:32.970 --> 25:35.530]  I have a number I can call that always has a reorder.
[25:36.950 --> 25:38.110]  And we should be able...
[25:38.110 --> 25:38.870]  There, that's a reorder.
[25:39.210 --> 25:39.690]  Hear that?
[25:43.200 --> 25:44.220]  It's a fast busy.
[25:44.500 --> 25:46.060]  You know, it goes faster than a busy.
[25:46.820 --> 25:48.200]  I mean, you all know what a busy sounds.
[25:48.280 --> 25:50.840]  Like, I'm not going to, you know, call one of those.
[25:50.840 --> 25:51.800]  You know, it's slower.
[25:54.670 --> 25:59.230]  And what that means, what that sound means is all circuits are busy.
[25:59.810 --> 26:02.810]  In other words, you can't even get to the point of getting a busy signal.
[26:03.150 --> 26:07.910]  You can't get to the point of getting a recording saying all circuits are busy.
[26:08.510 --> 26:12.490]  Because all the circuits are busy going into the recordings that say the circuits are busy.
[26:12.650 --> 26:14.230]  So, that's what I got.
[26:15.050 --> 26:19.110]  I got that signal called a reorder when I tried calling California.
[26:19.110 --> 26:20.750]  So, I hung up.
[26:21.590 --> 26:22.550]  And do you know what I did?
[26:22.550 --> 26:23.290]  I tried again.
[26:24.410 --> 26:34.610]  And no, AT&T spokeswoman, whoever your name is, I did not get through the second time, I did not get through the third time, or anything up to the 41st time, I did not get through.
[26:39.470 --> 26:44.950]  And the obscene thing about this is, there is no reason for anybody to have been inconvenienced.
[26:45.490 --> 26:47.830]  No reason at all, but you would not have guessed that.
[26:49.970 --> 26:56.330]  By listening to the reports, or by having the operators help you.
[26:56.550 --> 27:05.170]  Do you know that while this was going on, while the calls were not being processed, AT&T wouldn't even tell you how you could make the calls?
[27:05.330 --> 27:09.210]  Even though it's within all of our capability to make a call on another company?
[27:10.030 --> 27:18.330]  I mean, yeah, I know, they want to protect their customers, but how about doing a little public service, when obviously the system isn't working?
[27:21.250 --> 27:24.350]  Telling people who may be trying to get through for a very important reason.
[27:24.530 --> 27:28.430]  You know, sometimes phone calls aren't just frivolous, they're for a reason, you know?
[27:28.470 --> 27:34.870]  You want to call someone, and maybe save their life or something, or find out, you know, what's happening, or...
[27:34.870 --> 27:37.310]  I don't know, there's all kinds of reasons to call people.
[27:37.310 --> 27:38.870]  Well, this isn't a phone company commercial.
[27:39.450 --> 27:41.590]  I'm sure you can find reasons, but...
[27:41.590 --> 27:44.310]  When the system isn't working, when the network isn't working...
[27:45.010 --> 27:50.790]  You know, when you go to Macy's, and they're out of something, they say, well, maybe A&S will have it.
[27:51.190 --> 27:54.610]  You know, they do that, occasionally, because they're human beings.
[27:56.690 --> 27:57.770]  Well, they wouldn't do it.
[27:57.910 --> 28:04.170]  Company policy forbade them from doing this, even while this was at its peak.
[28:04.970 --> 28:12.190]  They would not say, just by dialing, five digits, you can make a call on another company.
[28:12.310 --> 28:14.230]  They would not tell you how to do that.
[28:16.550 --> 28:17.910]  Now, how do you do that?
[28:17.990 --> 28:19.190]  Okay, we're going to tell you that.
[28:19.370 --> 28:20.090]  We're going to tell you that.
[28:20.570 --> 28:21.430]  Right here, folks.
[28:23.130 --> 28:24.950]  And it's very important that everybody know this.
[28:25.430 --> 28:27.110]  What's crazy here is that...
[28:27.110 --> 28:28.770]  How do we find this out?
[28:28.770 --> 28:34.850]  How do people know the alternate ways to route around these things?
[28:35.010 --> 28:44.510]  These things that we always say are impossible, but when you have these huge computers running the whole show, one thing goes wrong.
[28:44.830 --> 28:46.390]  And it's a chain reaction.
[28:46.610 --> 28:47.870]  And that's what happened here.
[28:47.950 --> 28:50.470]  One thing went wrong in a New York switching center.
[28:52.610 --> 28:59.330]  And those bad error messages, or whatever you want to call them, spread to another switching system.
[28:59.710 --> 29:00.570]  And to another.
[29:00.750 --> 29:01.150]  And another.
[29:01.290 --> 29:02.350]  All across the country.
[29:03.630 --> 29:08.430]  And if that doesn't sound like a virus to you, I'd like to know what your definition of a virus is.
[29:08.470 --> 29:12.490]  No, it wasn't something planted by insidious computer hackers.
[29:13.030 --> 29:13.450]  Uh-uh.
[29:14.150 --> 29:15.210]  It wasn't that at all.
[29:16.390 --> 29:17.770]  It was a programming error.
[29:18.030 --> 29:20.870]  A programming error, a virus from within.
[29:20.870 --> 29:22.770]  But a virus all the same.
[29:26.300 --> 29:28.500]  And what we have to realize is that...
[29:28.500 --> 29:33.820]  Just because something is being run on a computer does not mean it's going to run perfectly.
[29:34.680 --> 29:36.480]  They say human error was involved.
[29:36.580 --> 29:36.780]  Yeah.
[29:37.440 --> 29:38.820]  Human error was involved.
[29:38.920 --> 29:42.520]  Human error will always be involved as long as there are human beings on the planet.
[29:44.720 --> 29:54.740]  So, uh, the important thing, the important thing for us is to be prepared to know that something like that could always happen.
[29:56.480 --> 30:02.260]  I had no trouble making phone calls to California that day because I knew the other ways around the system.
[30:03.220 --> 30:05.840]  And this is completely legal.
[30:06.420 --> 30:09.820]  This is what the breakup of the Bell system was all about.
[30:09.820 --> 30:12.940]  This is what equal access is all about.
[30:15.140 --> 30:15.540]  Okay.
[30:16.300 --> 30:17.160]  On to the facts.
[30:18.700 --> 30:19.940]  Every phone company has...
[30:19.940 --> 30:21.020]  Okay, I gotta interrupt you there.
[30:21.160 --> 30:22.200]  Me, of the past.
[30:22.400 --> 30:23.400]  20 years ago, almost.
[30:24.160 --> 30:31.920]  Yeah, that's the kind of thing that we've been doing on Off the Hook from the very beginning is giving out the facts, telling people how to make phone calls, how to get around stupid systems.
[30:32.140 --> 30:33.120]  And boy, that was...
[30:33.120 --> 30:38.280]  That brought back memories of the Martin Luther King crash from 1990s.
[30:38.280 --> 30:39.880]  Anybody actually remember that happening?
[30:40.280 --> 30:40.800]  Nobody in the...
[30:40.800 --> 30:41.660]  Jim, you remember it, I'm sure.
[30:42.540 --> 30:42.940]  But...
[30:42.940 --> 30:43.600]  I do remember it.
[30:43.600 --> 30:44.240]  Do you remember it, Rob?
[30:44.480 --> 30:44.780]  Yes.
[30:44.940 --> 30:45.140]  Yeah.
[30:45.400 --> 30:46.240]  A lot of fun.
[30:46.500 --> 30:51.540]  Now, this is just one small part of what you'll get with the full Off the Hook archives.
[30:51.820 --> 30:53.060]  Every single show we've ever done.
[30:53.260 --> 30:57.700]  And that's just one small sliver of material that we've covered.
[30:58.380 --> 30:59.180]  Historical material.
[30:59.380 --> 31:02.560]  Things that really matter and that should be remembered.
[31:03.200 --> 31:03.540]  Right?
[31:03.800 --> 31:05.000]  I mean, something that we don't...
[31:05.000 --> 31:06.440]  What's the date of that show we just heard?
[31:06.440 --> 31:08.260]  That was January 18th, 1990.
[31:08.640 --> 31:11.080]  So you'll call 212-209-2950.
[31:11.080 --> 31:11.760]  You'll pledge.
[31:11.860 --> 31:12.620]  And then you'll get...
[31:13.180 --> 31:15.080]  You'll get the archives, including that show.
[31:15.180 --> 31:19.500]  You can go back and listen to the rest and find out how to make long-distance calls using alternate cameras.
[31:19.500 --> 31:19.660]  That's right.
[31:19.820 --> 31:21.060]  And there's all kinds of...
[31:21.060 --> 31:24.640]  of different facts that we give out.
[31:24.780 --> 31:26.120]  Certainly, some things have changed.
[31:26.280 --> 31:27.260]  But the overall idea...
[31:27.260 --> 31:29.960]  You'll get to see how the attitudes have changed.
[31:30.040 --> 31:32.980]  And we were talking at the beginning of that clip about the threat of caller ID.
[31:32.980 --> 31:38.000]  We didn't actually say caller ID, but we were talking about one day people will know that you're calling.
[31:38.280 --> 31:43.260]  And it just seemed like such an alien thing back then that people actually would do this and would accept this.
[31:43.360 --> 31:48.160]  But lo and behold, we've all accepted it now and we all basically don't have surprise phone calls anymore.
[31:48.160 --> 31:49.220]  We always know who's calling us.
[31:49.320 --> 31:51.520]  But back then, it was a big deal.
[31:51.520 --> 31:52.440]  It was something new.
[31:53.660 --> 31:58.220]  And I think we can learn something by seeing how that change came about, how long it took.
[31:58.820 --> 32:01.440]  And that's just one of so many different examples.
[32:01.780 --> 32:03.360]  212-209-2950.
[32:03.360 --> 32:15.620]  We had a couple of calls while people were listening to this, but now we need people to give a call and pledge to the radio station because we want to give this to you so that you have the history on you at all times.
[32:16.560 --> 32:17.660]  Completely DRM-free.
[32:17.840 --> 32:18.680]  You have MP3s.
[32:18.680 --> 32:19.620]  You can do whatever you want with them.
[32:19.640 --> 32:22.140]  You can put them on your iPod or post them someplace.
[32:22.600 --> 32:23.520]  But they're yours.
[32:23.520 --> 32:30.320]  For a pledge of $75, the full 20-year archive, plus a polo shirt in your choice of size and color.
[32:30.360 --> 32:33.640]  You get the polo shirt and the archive.
[32:33.760 --> 32:34.240]  For $75.
[32:34.620 --> 32:35.120]  For $75.
[32:35.440 --> 32:37.780]  And you keep WBAI on the air.
[32:37.860 --> 32:38.040]  Yeah.
[32:38.200 --> 32:40.420]  And you also get an off-the-hook t-shirt too.
[32:40.620 --> 32:40.840]  That's crazy.
[32:40.960 --> 32:49.060]  If you already have one, I know a lot of people pledge multiple times to the station, you can always give that out to a friend or a relative or simply have a backup.
[32:49.300 --> 32:49.780]  A backup.
[32:49.980 --> 32:55.800]  But also for a pledge of $125, you'll get, in lieu of the shirt, you'll get five years of $2,600.
[32:56.040 --> 32:57.260]  Five years back issue.
[32:57.340 --> 33:00.020]  So you really have a tremendous sense of history.
[33:00.180 --> 33:05.900]  But you've got to give a call 212-209-2950 to help keep us going.
[33:05.940 --> 33:07.360]  We're up to $200.
[33:07.360 --> 33:10.160]  I'm not sure if that has been updated recently, but that's good.
[33:10.160 --> 33:12.700]  We need to be over $1,000 though by the time the hour is over.
[33:12.800 --> 33:21.080]  We have a couple more clips we want to play going back into history a little bit just to give you a sense as to some of the dramatic things that have happened here on this radio show.
[33:21.340 --> 33:25.860]  Kind of a window into the world, a window into technology and our lives.
[33:26.000 --> 33:30.200]  We have all kinds of different people who have been in the studio and it's really fascinating.
[33:30.360 --> 33:34.460]  I mean, for us, all of us are able to listen to this and just be entranced by it.
[33:35.700 --> 33:41.200]  Imagine how much entertainment you're going to get just from hearing how technology has changed over the years.
[33:41.400 --> 33:45.480]  We're so lucky to have this resource, this radio station to be able to do this.
[33:45.660 --> 33:49.080]  If this place had not been here, so much would not have been discussed.
[33:49.080 --> 33:54.860]  You never would have heard the story of Kevin Mitnick or Bernie S when they were going through their horrible nightmares.
[33:55.560 --> 33:57.420]  And there are just so many other stories.
[33:57.420 --> 34:01.260]  You'll hear many callers calling in from all over the place.
[34:01.580 --> 34:05.240]  At the beginning, at the beginning, we only broadcast to the New York area.
[34:05.280 --> 34:06.620]  It was just a radio station.
[34:06.740 --> 34:10.320]  There was no internet per se that we know of now.
[34:11.280 --> 34:14.060]  1988, how many people had quote-unquote net access?
[34:14.500 --> 34:15.400]  That's when we started.
[34:16.340 --> 34:19.220]  Think about what kind of computer system you had back in 1988.
[34:19.840 --> 34:21.540]  Completely different scenario.
[34:22.000 --> 34:24.040]  And then things started to change.
[34:24.300 --> 34:25.300]  Things started to grow.
[34:25.600 --> 34:28.580]  The internet came into being and became all commercialized.
[34:28.620 --> 34:30.980]  And you had 9-11 happen.
[34:31.000 --> 34:32.980]  And you had different presidents come and go.
[34:33.280 --> 34:35.140]  There is so much that happened.
[34:35.440 --> 34:38.940]  And you can hear it in real time with the 20-year archive.
[34:39.080 --> 34:41.740]  212-209-29502 calls on the line.
[34:41.900 --> 34:43.520]  Let's see if we can make that four.
[34:43.960 --> 34:46.860]  And Mike, I think you're the one that can bring in those two more calls.
[34:47.060 --> 34:47.680]  I hope so.
[34:47.780 --> 34:48.300]  I hope so too.
[34:48.480 --> 34:52.920]  Maybe the two people just don't know that the phone number is 212-209-2950.
[34:53.260 --> 34:58.820]  Or maybe they don't realize that in addition to all these premiums, we touched on it.
[34:58.940 --> 35:02.140]  But the key thing is that you keep the radio station going.
[35:02.140 --> 35:03.660]  You keep this program going.
[35:04.100 --> 35:06.160]  The program's been going for over 20 years.
[35:06.300 --> 35:09.340]  The radio station's been going for almost 50, I guess.
[35:09.540 --> 35:09.980]  Yeah, yeah.
[35:10.080 --> 35:10.800]  It's 50th anniversary.
[35:11.120 --> 35:11.400]  Wow.
[35:13.520 --> 35:13.840]  Wow.
[35:14.020 --> 35:14.220]  Yeah.
[35:14.480 --> 35:21.500]  That's a long time for any institution, really any institution, but especially a radio institution.
[35:21.760 --> 35:25.380]  But none of it would have been possible without the listeners because we don't take corporate money.
[35:25.480 --> 35:26.500]  We don't have commercials.
[35:26.500 --> 35:27.780]  So where does the money come from?
[35:27.820 --> 35:30.960]  It comes from people like you and you over there.
[35:31.380 --> 35:31.500]  Yes.
[35:32.300 --> 35:33.300]  NPR is great.
[35:33.400 --> 35:33.840]  We love them.
[35:33.940 --> 35:35.580]  But they do have commercials.
[35:35.960 --> 35:37.360]  I mean, I can tolerate them.
[35:37.480 --> 35:38.040]  They're okay.
[35:38.220 --> 35:38.480]  They're good.
[35:38.560 --> 35:39.800]  But you know, they're just everywhere.
[35:39.840 --> 35:41.720]  I'm sick of hearing NPR everywhere I go.
[35:41.800 --> 35:43.160]  They keep taking over radio stations.
[35:43.300 --> 35:44.000]  They have commercials.
[35:44.160 --> 35:45.220]  They took over WQXR.
[35:45.300 --> 35:46.960]  They took over that classical station in Boston.
[35:47.080 --> 35:48.640]  They're taking over stations left and right.
[35:48.680 --> 35:49.060]  I'm sorry.
[35:49.120 --> 35:50.240]  I just can't keep it in anymore.
[35:50.320 --> 35:51.060]  NPR is everywhere.
[35:51.320 --> 35:51.980]  And you know what?
[35:52.040 --> 35:53.400]  They have all these high-paid executives.
[35:53.620 --> 35:57.180]  They don't need to be raising money and giving you a tote bag for 150 bucks.
[35:57.280 --> 36:00.700]  You know, we're giving you a lot more than that for a pledge of 75 or 125.
[36:00.980 --> 36:04.020]  We're giving you all kinds of things that are worth even more than that.
[36:04.340 --> 36:11.720]  So, you know, I'm not saying you have to be crazy not to call us, but I have to wonder, you know, we're really, you know, we're human beings here.
[36:11.940 --> 36:13.320]  This place always has people.
[36:13.400 --> 36:20.080]  We don't have satellite uplinks or downlinks or whatever where we're just playing classical music 24 hours a day and not doing anything local.
[36:20.220 --> 36:20.900]  This is all local.
[36:21.020 --> 36:24.200]  We're here right now at 7.35 p.m.
[36:24.240 --> 36:24.900]  in New York City.
[36:25.120 --> 36:27.660]  We're broadcasting a room full of people to you.
[36:27.680 --> 36:35.260]  If you want to keep that kind of thing going where we can talk about what's actually happening in the world, call us 212-209-2950 pledge whatever you can afford.
[36:35.420 --> 36:36.900]  $25 gets you an off-the-hook shirt.
[36:37.240 --> 36:39.940]  $75 gets you the full archive plus a polo shirt.
[36:40.040 --> 36:43.520]  $125 full archive plus five years of the Hacker Quarterly.
[36:43.860 --> 36:45.120]  You can't beat that.
[36:45.300 --> 36:46.400]  I don't think you can beat that.
[36:46.500 --> 36:46.700]  Rob?
[36:46.860 --> 36:47.900]  You cannot beat that at all.
[36:48.060 --> 36:49.320]  And think about this for a moment.
[36:49.440 --> 36:58.840]  For 50 years the station has been going on not by selling anything, not by playing ads, but just on solely the donations of listeners just like you for 50 years.
[36:59.380 --> 37:01.300]  What shame would it be to lose that?
[37:01.640 --> 37:02.520]  They're not just like you.
[37:02.700 --> 37:03.580]  I mean, everyone's different.
[37:03.740 --> 37:04.440]  Everyone's unique.
[37:04.940 --> 37:05.340]  But they have...
[37:05.340 --> 37:06.260]  But they were all listening.
[37:06.480 --> 37:13.360]  We all share in the value of a place like this where it matters so much to have an alternative voice.
[37:13.540 --> 37:17.060]  And it is an alternative voice because we are beholden to no one.
[37:17.060 --> 37:27.820]  We don't have to worry about upsetting the sponsor or any of the other things that the so-called professional radio stations are constantly obsessed with.
[37:28.140 --> 37:35.960]  We don't worry about that because we speak for ourselves and we speak for you as well and you can speak for yourself by calling us and speaking on the air.
[37:36.100 --> 37:37.120]  We do this all the time.
[37:37.240 --> 37:39.840]  But right now we need you to speak for yourself.
[37:40.420 --> 37:41.800]  Donate to the radio station.
[37:41.920 --> 37:45.240]  Keep the radio station going so that you and future generations will be here.
[37:45.240 --> 37:46.780]  This place will be here in 50 years.
[37:46.880 --> 37:47.540]  Let's hope so.
[37:47.660 --> 37:50.900]  And I think it will be just as needed then as it's been over the last 50 years.
[37:51.000 --> 37:52.760]  212-209-2950.
[37:53.080 --> 37:55.600]  The other thing we don't do is we don't take government money.
[37:55.720 --> 37:57.360]  We have very little foundation funding.
[37:57.560 --> 38:08.860]  We are almost entirely supported by your phone calls, your calls to 212-209-2950 and then you giving them your credit card number or your address if you want to mail us a check.
[38:10.500 --> 38:11.940]  No one else does that.
[38:12.040 --> 38:15.220]  Very few radio stations rely entirely on the list.
[38:15.240 --> 38:16.220]  listener as we do.
[38:16.940 --> 38:24.520]  So give us a call and help us show that we can stay on the air just relying on you because if we can't we're going to have to do something else.
[38:24.720 --> 38:30.220]  We're up to 450 now which is great but it's not yet halfway where we need to be.
[38:30.400 --> 38:32.300]  We've got three calls on the line.
[38:32.420 --> 38:32.740]  That's great.
[38:32.900 --> 38:36.580]  We need about five or six to really get the momentum going.
[38:36.740 --> 38:38.780]  212-209-2950.
[38:39.440 --> 38:47.680]  You know, we've been coming in week after week with all sorts of different people over the years for Off the Hook but Off the Hook is only one program on this radio station.
[38:47.780 --> 38:48.940]  That's the magic of it.
[38:48.980 --> 39:02.940]  The fact that there are so many radio shows and they all have history on this place and there are radio shows of the past that have aired in the 60s and the 70s and provided voices for so many people and really changed the world.
[39:03.320 --> 39:04.720]  Radio can change the world.
[39:05.240 --> 39:07.300]  Off the Hook is just a microcosm of that.
[39:07.480 --> 39:12.560]  So imagine if you feel this show is significant the significance of the radio station in and of itself.
[39:12.860 --> 39:18.040]  How many different voices have been heard as a result of this place being available.
[39:18.280 --> 39:21.500]  And the only reason this place is available is because people like you support it.
[39:22.000 --> 39:28.280]  Believe me, this place could turn into a commercial radio station tomorrow if the listeners were not here if there was no support.
[39:28.940 --> 39:42.180]  And Pacifica Foundation could make a pretty penny selling the license and you'd have I don't want to keep picking on country music but you could have that you know any time if the station isn't sustainable that is the fear that we always have to live with.
[39:42.320 --> 39:46.960]  That's never going to go away because well you know we're only as good as our listener support.
[39:47.180 --> 39:48.220]  Without that we're nothing.
[39:48.500 --> 39:54.200]  So please show us that you're there show us that we matter to you because we know that you matter to us.
[39:54.320 --> 39:58.000]  212-209-2950 Should we play another clip?
[39:58.240 --> 39:59.000]  Why don't you play another clip?
[39:59.060 --> 39:59.980]  Alright, I'd like to play another clip.
[40:00.020 --> 40:00.980]  We have four calls on the line.
[40:01.040 --> 40:02.760]  That's what we said we were looking for.
[40:02.820 --> 40:12.480]  Alright, we're going to we're going to do our bit but folks please call up while this is playing because you can always listen to it on the archive and if you call us you'll get the whole archive.
[40:12.840 --> 40:13.220]  Yes, that's true.
[40:13.460 --> 40:15.100]  You won't even have to just hear this clip.
[40:15.420 --> 40:15.920]  Yeah, that's true.
[40:17.060 --> 40:25.760]  212-209-2950 Again, $75 pledge gets you the Off the Hook Archive and the polo shirt in your choice of color and size.
[40:25.880 --> 40:30.980]  $125 gets you the Off the Hook Archive plus five years of back issues of 2600 Magazine, the Hacker Quarterly.
[40:31.140 --> 40:35.820]  Everything $25 and above gets you an Off the Hook t-shirt which you can only get on this radio show.
[40:36.460 --> 40:49.860]  Okay, again 212-209-2950 We're going to go now to January 26, 1999 where we're talking about all kinds of interesting things including Y2K and the Clinton administration.
[40:49.860 --> 40:52.980]  Let's listen to what was going on back then.
[40:54.820 --> 40:56.660]  Let's get a dial tone, please.
[40:57.320 --> 40:58.380]  Thank you very much.
[40:59.440 --> 41:02.160]  This is actually an 888 number.
[41:03.460 --> 41:11.680]  888 USA 4 Y 2 K
[41:16.160 --> 41:20.100]  Thank you for calling the Federal Year 2000 Information Center.
[41:20.540 --> 41:23.920]  Information specialists are ready to assist you from 9 a.m.
[41:24.020 --> 41:24.760]  to 8 p.m.
[41:25.060 --> 41:25.620]  Eastern Time.
[41:26.280 --> 41:32.260]  Informational messages are available to touch-tone dialers 24 hours per day and are updated frequently.
[41:32.740 --> 41:36.260]  If you're calling from a touch-tone phone, please press 1 now.
[41:36.760 --> 41:38.400]  Be told while your call is being transferred.
[41:38.400 --> 41:39.120]  Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[41:39.200 --> 41:39.940]  Hold on a second.
[41:40.280 --> 41:40.880]  A little patience.
[41:40.940 --> 41:43.680]  Please select from the following options appropriate to your needs.
[41:43.740 --> 41:44.040]  There we go.
[41:44.220 --> 41:46.460]  You may make your choice any time during this message.
[41:46.840 --> 41:49.780]  You may also press star at any time to repeat the menu.
[41:49.940 --> 41:50.640]  Can we hurry it up a bit?
[41:50.640 --> 41:55.040]  To find out what the government is doing to fix year 2000 problems, press 1.
[41:55.180 --> 41:59.520]  For information about year 2000 related banking issues, press 2.
[41:59.980 --> 42:04.520]  For information about year 2000 personal computer issues, press 3.
[42:05.060 --> 42:09.640]  For information about the year 2000 problem and small business, press 4.
[42:10.280 --> 42:15.480]  For information about year 2000 related airline and airport issues, press 5.
[42:15.480 --> 42:20.980]  For information about the year 2000 problem and telecommunications, press 6.
[42:21.540 --> 42:26.320]  For information about year 2000 related electricity issues, press 7.
[42:27.020 --> 42:31.900]  For information about the year 2000 related food supply issues, press 8.
[42:32.660 --> 42:35.660]  To speak with an information specialist, please press 0.
[42:35.940 --> 42:38.260]  Please make your selection now.
[42:38.260 --> 42:39.640]  Yeah, okay, I'm interested in the food supply.
[42:39.940 --> 42:40.500]  How about you?
[42:40.760 --> 42:41.640]  I'll explain it about that.
[42:41.640 --> 42:44.480]  Government agencies led by the U.S.
[42:44.820 --> 42:49.220]  Department of Agriculture in coordination with the food industry reports encouraging news.
[42:49.440 --> 42:57.860]  Major domestic companies that provide most of the food Americans consume are confident that there will be little or no interruption from the Y2K bug.
[42:58.260 --> 43:06.320]  However, some foreign countries have not yet made significant progress, and there is a possibility of short-term disruptions in some imports.
[43:06.740 --> 43:20.460]  In winter months, it's just good sense to keep bottled water, some canned food, and candles and batteries on hand because Mother Nature, not the Y2K bug, can cause power outages or make a trip to the grocery store more difficult.
[43:20.720 --> 43:40.580]  The Department of Agriculture has information about food availability on its website, http colon slash slash www dot USDA dot slash A-P-H-I-S slash F-S-W-G.
[43:41.460 --> 43:44.360]  If you would like to hear this message again, press star.
[43:44.880 --> 43:46.280]  Once was enough, once was enough.
[43:46.400 --> 43:50.180]  USA for Y2K, no end of useful information there.
[43:50.500 --> 43:52.560]  It's just the foreigners are going to have a problem, not us.
[43:52.600 --> 43:52.980]  We're fine.
[43:53.800 --> 43:54.680]  It's reassuring.
[43:54.680 --> 43:59.360]  I debate that, but everybody's heard my piece time and time again.
[43:59.400 --> 44:02.340]  Well, we'll devote more show time to Y2K.
[44:02.500 --> 44:08.400]  Unfortunately, we don't have that much time today, and there's other issues, but I just figured I'd give out that number because it's kind of entertaining.
[44:08.920 --> 44:11.500]  It's a good thing to do at parties, I guess, when things get a little slow.
[44:12.560 --> 44:16.100]  All right, we also have news from the courtrooms.
[44:16.760 --> 44:17.780]  Here's something interesting.
[44:18.160 --> 44:19.500]  And yeah, it's still happening.
[44:19.800 --> 44:20.940]  It's still happening all over the place.
[44:21.040 --> 44:23.200]  I really got scared this week.
[44:23.640 --> 44:26.100]  I don't know if you saw me over the weekend, but I was really trembling.
[44:27.280 --> 44:27.860]  New York Times.
[44:28.020 --> 44:30.320]  Front page New York Times on Friday.
[44:31.060 --> 44:31.800]  Anybody see this?
[44:32.020 --> 44:33.600]  I imagine a lot of people saw this.
[44:34.620 --> 44:38.360]  Clinton describes terrorism threat for 21st century.
[44:38.760 --> 44:40.160]  Oh, I heard about this.
[44:40.860 --> 44:43.820]  And in a speech he gave that same day, I just want to quote some of this.
[44:44.520 --> 44:46.240]  This is rather important.
[44:49.490 --> 44:51.290]  Okay, the enemies of peace.
[44:52.950 --> 44:57.170]  The enemies of peace realize they cannot defeat us with traditional military means.
[44:59.030 --> 44:59.890]  How about that?
[44:59.890 --> 45:00.310]  We won.
[45:00.550 --> 45:02.890]  We don't need traditional military means anymore.
[45:03.190 --> 45:04.930]  Okay, pack it all in, everybody.
[45:04.930 --> 45:05.690]  It's all over.
[45:05.850 --> 45:06.650]  We won.
[45:06.830 --> 45:08.810]  They cannot defeat us with traditional military means.
[45:09.870 --> 45:11.710]  It's on to cyberspace now.
[45:11.850 --> 45:12.030]  Yes.
[45:12.530 --> 45:23.770]  Now they are working on two new forms of assault, which you've heard about today, cyber attacks on our critical computer systems, and attacks with weapons of mass destruction, chemical, biological, potentially even nuclear weapons.
[45:24.050 --> 45:25.070]  We must be ready.
[45:25.270 --> 45:33.490]  Ready if our adversaries try to use computers to disable power grids, banking, communications, and transportation networks, police, fire, and health services, or military assets.
[45:34.070 --> 45:38.130]  We're going to skip over the nuclear and chemical weapons thing.
[45:38.190 --> 45:38.850]  Oh, but those are fun.
[45:38.890 --> 45:58.630]  It's amazing that computer hackers, people we know, are being talked about in the same breath by the president, by the president of the United States of America, as multinational terrorists, you know, the people we read about in papers, the schemers, the people that are doing all the horrible things in the world.
[45:58.690 --> 46:01.950]  Well, it's something of an ego boost to be, you know, put on the same level, isn't it?
[46:01.950 --> 46:06.330]  I'm sure for a 14-year-old it's heaven, you know, being thought of in this way.
[46:06.450 --> 46:13.090]  But when you think about it, when you think about what these people are doing and the resources they have at their fingertips, it's damn scary.
[46:13.250 --> 46:13.710]  It is, it is.
[46:13.730 --> 46:14.750]  It's really scary.
[46:15.070 --> 46:27.790]  One of these people going to wake up, not the people, not the kids, one of these people making these crazy statements going to wake up and realize that it's not necessarily terrorism every time you don't understand something.
[46:27.970 --> 46:29.190]  Sadly, I doubt they will.
[46:29.690 --> 46:32.650]  Well then, I really don't know what we're heading for, but listen to this one.
[46:32.710 --> 46:33.750]  This is a good paragraph right here.
[46:34.190 --> 46:39.950]  More and more, these critical systems are driven by and linked together with computers, making them more vulnerable to disruption.
[46:40.310 --> 46:50.530]  Last spring, we saw the enormous impact of a single failed electronic link when a satellite malfunction disabled pagers, ATMs, credit card systems, and television networks all around the world.
[46:50.650 --> 46:51.050]  Now, wait a second.
[46:51.150 --> 46:53.010]  Are they insinuating that hackers did that?
[46:53.050 --> 46:53.550]  No, no.
[46:53.650 --> 46:56.930]  That's their clever way of making it appear like hackers could do that.
[46:57.230 --> 47:00.510]  Do you remember when, when, when there was the Martin Luther King crash?
[47:00.730 --> 47:00.870]  Yeah.
[47:00.870 --> 47:01.970]  Back, I think in 1990.
[47:02.470 --> 47:06.790]  It was said from the very beginning, it was an AT&T problem, I think.
[47:07.370 --> 47:10.290]  From the very beginning, everybody said hackers were not responsible for this.
[47:10.370 --> 47:23.870]  But I remember reading an editorial in, in computer week or information week or security week or one of those weak papers that basically hackers were not responsible for this, but they could have been.
[47:23.870 --> 47:24.010]  Could have been.
[47:24.130 --> 47:26.610]  And that's the reason why we have to strengthen the laws.
[47:26.930 --> 47:29.470]  It's the most convoluted logic I think I've ever seen.
[47:29.930 --> 47:31.030]  But nobody questioned it.
[47:31.170 --> 47:32.270]  And nobody's questioning this.
[47:32.450 --> 47:33.130]  Well, I'm questioning it.
[47:33.130 --> 47:35.830]  Well, why strengthen the laws when you can actually strengthen the security?
[47:36.650 --> 47:37.170]  Well, yeah.
[47:37.410 --> 47:40.050]  Then, then, then you're, you're expecting corporate America to do something.
[47:40.190 --> 47:40.650]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[47:40.790 --> 47:41.290]  I, I know.
[47:41.530 --> 47:41.810]  All right.
[47:42.030 --> 47:46.910]  Uh, so, and also when he's talking about this, uh, this, this malfunction, we talked about this on the radio when it happened.
[47:47.210 --> 47:48.510]  And pagers were what were affected.
[47:48.810 --> 47:48.950]  Yes.
[47:49.010 --> 47:51.290]  I wasn't, I didn't hear of any ATMs being affected by this.
[47:51.370 --> 47:56.270]  I don't know of any television networks that got affected except the television networks were reporting about the pagers.
[47:56.490 --> 47:58.330]  That was the extent of it as far as I know.
[47:59.190 --> 48:01.650]  Anyway, so yeah, he made into this big major deal.
[48:01.790 --> 48:02.190]  And that's what happened.
[48:02.290 --> 48:03.170]  Satellites malfunction.
[48:03.390 --> 48:04.650]  But what does that have to do with computer hackers?
[48:05.190 --> 48:08.670]  Uh, we already are seeing the first wave of deliberate cyber attacks.
[48:09.030 --> 48:11.290]  Hackers break into government and business computers.
[48:11.570 --> 48:12.770]  This is the president speaking.
[48:12.970 --> 48:13.810]  President Clinton speaking.
[48:14.250 --> 48:24.490]  Hackers break into government and business computers, stealing and destroying information, raiding bank accounts, running up credit card charges, extorting money by threats to unleash computer viruses.
[48:24.970 --> 48:27.230]  What has this guy been reading or smoking?
[48:27.410 --> 48:31.070]  He's definitely not in tune with reality here.
[48:31.470 --> 48:33.350]  He's a, he's, he's watching too many movies.
[48:33.470 --> 48:33.890]  Basically.
[48:34.110 --> 48:35.530]  He's not reading the facts.
[48:35.710 --> 48:36.750]  He's not reading 2600.
[48:36.870 --> 48:37.650]  I'll tell you that right now.
[48:37.750 --> 48:42.570]  Well, I, I know that certain agencies certainly are, but, uh, well, they're not reporting him.
[48:42.970 --> 48:45.870]  Well, his script writer, uh, his speech writers rather script writers.
[48:46.090 --> 48:47.830]  Well, one or the other, you can never tell nowadays.
[48:47.870 --> 48:49.630]  He's just a runaway process here.
[48:50.370 --> 48:51.510]  A zombie process.
[48:52.490 --> 48:52.810]  Yeah.
[48:52.950 --> 48:53.410]  It's scary.
[48:53.490 --> 49:01.630]  You know, when you see the president of the United States almost talking by name to people that, you know, that it's really, it's, it, it frightens me.
[49:01.910 --> 49:02.750]  It really does.
[49:03.150 --> 49:04.270]  I don't know what to do about this.
[49:04.310 --> 49:06.890]  First of all, one thing I do want it, and maybe somebody out there can help.
[49:06.970 --> 49:08.070]  And if you can help, please do.
[49:08.070 --> 49:08.090]  Thank you.
[49:08.790 --> 49:13.270]  This is a speech that was given, um, in front of the, uh, what was it?
[49:13.310 --> 49:14.950]  The national, hang on.
[49:15.070 --> 49:15.490]  I have it right here.
[49:15.510 --> 49:16.130]  Science Foundation?
[49:16.650 --> 49:18.050]  No, the National Academy of Sciences.
[49:18.370 --> 49:21.650]  The speech was given on January 22nd.
[49:22.550 --> 49:24.770]  I cannot find the video of this speech anyplace.
[49:24.890 --> 49:26.190]  I can't find it on C-SPAN.
[49:26.450 --> 49:28.370]  I can't find it on the White House website.
[49:28.870 --> 49:30.030]  It's got to exist someplace.
[49:30.430 --> 49:31.510]  I need to see this.
[49:31.510 --> 49:32.350]  There is a video.
[49:32.590 --> 49:34.590]  Every time the president gives a speech, somebody's recording it.
[49:34.830 --> 49:35.810]  The network should have it someplace.
[49:36.070 --> 49:36.670]  Have you checked the NAS?
[49:37.190 --> 49:37.790]  What's the NAS?
[49:38.170 --> 49:39.350]  The National Academy of Sciences.
[49:39.690 --> 49:40.630]  Oh, yes, I did.
[49:40.710 --> 49:41.490]  They don't, they don't have it.
[49:41.570 --> 49:42.830]  They don't have anything video-ish.
[49:43.030 --> 49:44.710]  That's where I could tell anyway, unless they hit it pretty good.
[49:44.850 --> 49:48.250]  Well, you know, there, there are things called telephones and you can talk to somebody in case they have it.
[49:48.270 --> 49:49.290]  Yeah, what I was doing is at three in the morning.
[49:49.470 --> 49:49.570]  Okay.
[49:49.730 --> 49:50.010]  Okay.
[49:50.010 --> 49:51.330]  Well then maybe that's when I do my work.
[49:51.710 --> 49:52.370]  So, all right.
[49:52.830 --> 49:57.030]  Someone out there must know how to do this, how to get ahold of a video copy of this, or if it was seen anyplace.
[49:57.170 --> 49:57.810]  Please let us know.
[49:57.810 --> 50:01.390]  You can mail us, OTH at 2600.com.
[50:01.390 --> 50:02.670]  That is our email address.
[50:04.490 --> 50:05.430]  And it gets scarier.
[50:05.530 --> 50:06.430]  It gets scarier, too.
[50:06.970 --> 50:07.650]  It really does.
[50:09.570 --> 50:11.110]  This is from the front page of the New York Times.
[50:11.230 --> 50:11.870]  That was a speech.
[50:11.930 --> 50:13.310]  That wasn't even included in the New York Times.
[50:13.430 --> 50:15.510]  But, but this was, and this wasn't reported.
[50:15.650 --> 50:16.330]  This is what bothers me.
[50:16.450 --> 50:18.610]  It was reported once and I never saw a mention of it again.
[50:20.770 --> 50:34.850]  Elaborating on some of the initiatives he intends to unveil on Friday, Mr. Clinton said he is weighing a proposal from the Defense Department to establish a commander in chief for the defense of the continental United States, a step that civil liberties groups strongly resist.
[50:35.130 --> 50:46.210]  Such a step would go far beyond the civil defense measures and bomb shelters that mark the Cold War, setting up instead a military leadership to help fight chaos and disarray if an attack occurred.
[50:46.450 --> 50:52.130]  The Pentagon has commanders overseeing regions around the globe, but none for the continental United States.
[50:52.210 --> 50:53.830]  Well, there's a number of them for CONUS.
[50:54.810 --> 50:58.570]  If they're going to try and conglomerate the power into one, that could get very interesting.
[50:59.130 --> 51:05.790]  Critics fear that such moves could open the door to rising military influence and a loss of individual rights.
[51:05.890 --> 51:11.050]  But Mr. Clinton insisted that such erosions would never occur, even while acknowledging the danger.
[51:12.310 --> 51:15.370]  Well, we all know how that turned out.
[51:15.370 --> 51:18.950]  Uh, uh, January 26, 1999 excerpt from off the hook.
[51:19.070 --> 51:22.990]  We're talking about Y2K, the Clinton era, all kinds of fun things like that.
[51:23.070 --> 51:30.010]  And wow, it's, it's, it's, I could listen to this for hours, you know, we should just, you could listen to it for hours if you called and pledged.
[51:30.130 --> 51:30.830]  Yeah, that's all.
[51:30.910 --> 51:32.350]  I mean, anyone can do this right now.
[51:32.390 --> 51:35.350]  And, uh, the phone number is 212-209-2950.
[51:35.350 --> 51:41.410]  We have two pledge levels where you will get the full archives every, every show from, uh, 1988 to the end of 2008.
[51:42.150 --> 51:46.410]  And, uh, it's, it's incredible just the amount of history that's there.
[51:46.610 --> 51:48.410]  Now, I have some, some sad news.
[51:48.630 --> 51:51.510]  Uh, our goal was a thousand and we have not attained that goal.
[51:51.630 --> 51:52.670]  We're at 995.
[51:53.730 --> 51:59.670]  Now, you know, I don't want to say that our listeners have let us down, but I mean, clearly 995 is not a thousand.
[51:59.910 --> 52:01.650]  We still have, uh, eight minutes or so.
[52:01.750 --> 52:02.310]  Well, I don't know.
[52:02.430 --> 52:06.050]  I mean, we, we need people to call in so that it'll get us over that amount.
[52:06.050 --> 52:08.550]  A 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0.
[52:08.730 --> 52:11.630]  There's no calls on the line right now because everyone's transfixed listening to this.
[52:12.390 --> 52:17.810]  And, uh, we, we, we, we basically need a bunch of people to call and bring us far over that amount.
[52:18.010 --> 52:19.490]  You know, it's, it's, it's, it's not hard.
[52:19.890 --> 52:22.610]  $75 pledge gets you the full archives plus the polo shirt.
[52:22.830 --> 52:30.370]  $1 25 gets you the full archives plus five years of 2600 magazine and, um, everything 25 and above gets you an off the hook t-shirt.
[52:30.830 --> 52:32.570]  Any thoughts on, on what we just heard?
[52:32.870 --> 52:33.270]  Rob?
[52:33.570 --> 52:35.830]  Yeah, I, I actually remember listening to that episode.
[52:35.830 --> 52:37.330]  Uh, live the first time around.
[52:37.510 --> 52:38.370]  Um, what did you think?
[52:38.370 --> 52:39.090]  What did you think of us?
[52:39.170 --> 52:46.730]  Did you think we were some kind of superstars that, uh, I mean, did you ever imagine that was before I met you guys and confirmed how a superstar you all are?
[52:46.730 --> 52:47.010]  Yes.
[52:47.090 --> 52:47.390]  Thank you.
[52:47.490 --> 52:53.150]  But no, actually it wasn't before I met you, but, uh, but yeah, I remember I used to, uh, play this in my old job.
[52:53.290 --> 52:56.270]  I was a manager of a small arcade out in the armpit of long Island.
[52:56.830 --> 53:03.390]  And, um, every, every Friday I would have this going on the, uh, on the, uh, PA system and, uh, you know, get the strangest looks from the customers.
[53:03.390 --> 53:08.150]  And, uh, you know, that you would have things like, uh, people talking about how much Y2K was going to destroy the world.
[53:08.290 --> 53:13.610]  And I'd be behind the counter laughing my ass off and, uh, and they'd, they'd be, uh, they'd be quite confused by the whole thing.
[53:13.690 --> 53:16.450]  But, uh, you know, maybe I did create a fan or two back then.
[53:16.630 --> 53:19.810]  So if any of you are still listening, uh, hello from your former arcade guy.
[53:20.030 --> 53:20.250]  Wow.
[53:20.470 --> 53:25.250]  It makes me wonder, I mean, how many people out there listen to us now that we have not yet met.
[53:25.430 --> 53:31.150]  And we've certainly met so many interesting people over the years, uh, that, uh, started as listeners or then star as listeners.
[53:31.190 --> 53:37.750]  Obviously they're, they have a life before they start listening to us, but they, they start getting involved in the things we're involved with by listening, uh, to off the hook.
[53:37.930 --> 53:40.410]  And, uh, it affects people's lives.
[53:40.590 --> 53:44.330]  Most definitely it affects people's lives, uh, in the listening area, outside the listening area.
[53:44.850 --> 53:49.690]  And, uh, this is a way for you to sort of, um, bring it all home and, and, and listen to the history that's happened.
[53:49.770 --> 53:52.730]  Maybe you'll hear yourself calling in if you've ever called us in the past.
[53:52.830 --> 53:56.550]  Robert, did you ever call us from the I did call from the arcade a couple of times.
[53:56.710 --> 54:01.030]  And before that, I got into the show in the mid-90s, early 90s sometime.
[54:01.570 --> 54:06.770]  And I'm sure if you listen to the entire archive, you'll hear my voice on one or two phone calls over the years.
[54:06.910 --> 54:08.270]  But yeah.
[54:08.570 --> 54:08.970]  All right.
[54:09.070 --> 54:12.310]  Well, let's get these phones lit up because they're kind of dead right now.
[54:12.350 --> 54:13.970]  And as I said, we're below 1,000.
[54:14.070 --> 54:14.530]  That's not good.
[54:14.590 --> 54:15.510]  We have to be above 1,000.
[54:15.970 --> 54:18.010]  And it's just going to take one caller to do it.
[54:18.150 --> 54:21.950]  But wouldn't it be great to get five or six callers because there's a whole room full of people down there?
[54:21.950 --> 54:36.650]  The thing is, you know, while calling for the radio station is the primary reason to call and support the place, we are giving you these gifts as a thank you, donations from us to thank our listeners for calling in, whether it be the Off the Hook t-shirt,
[54:36.950 --> 54:47.970]  whether it be the polo shirts and the full Off the Hook archive, or whether it be the five years of back issues and the full Off the Hook archive, pledges of 25, 75, 125, whatever you can afford.
[54:47.970 --> 54:48.550]  We take Visa.
[54:48.650 --> 54:50.330]  We take MasterCard, American Express, Discover.
[54:51.190 --> 54:53.510]  Give us a call, 212-209-2950.
[54:54.290 --> 54:57.650]  Not Kevin, why don't you get that call in that we need so desperately?
[54:57.850 --> 55:11.130]  Well, as someone from a recent generation, I have to say the archive, it's so hard to put a value, a monetary value to something like that because the historical significance is unparalleled for someone who didn't grow up during these times.
[55:11.150 --> 55:12.750]  So being able to go back and listen...
[55:12.750 --> 55:13.370]  You haven't grown up yet, though.
[55:13.550 --> 55:14.110]  I mean, really.
[55:14.210 --> 55:15.330]  I'm still a scuffing young lad.
[55:15.330 --> 55:17.810]  Yeah, he's still trying to achieve it.
[55:18.290 --> 55:18.650]  One day.
[55:18.950 --> 55:19.090]  Yeah.
[55:19.610 --> 55:20.950]  212-209-2950.
[55:21.230 --> 55:21.730]  What else?
[55:22.250 --> 55:23.090]  Well, you just caught me.
[55:23.150 --> 55:24.350]  I lost my train of thought now.
[55:24.470 --> 55:24.750]  Really?
[55:24.870 --> 55:25.370]  It's that easy.
[55:25.490 --> 55:26.150]  It was that easy.
[55:26.230 --> 55:28.130]  But I have to say, the shirts are very fetching.
[55:28.590 --> 55:30.250]  Yes, we've said that many, many times.
[55:31.770 --> 55:32.750]  Well, that didn't work.
[55:32.790 --> 55:33.410]  We didn't get the call.
[55:33.570 --> 55:34.470]  We didn't get the calls that we need.
[55:34.550 --> 55:35.150]  Volta, how about you?
[55:35.290 --> 55:35.890]  Back in New York.
[55:35.990 --> 55:36.230]  Come on.
[55:36.350 --> 55:37.550]  Let's get some calls coming in.
[55:37.730 --> 55:38.010]  All right.
[55:38.510 --> 55:39.710]  I think this...
[55:39.710 --> 55:40.210]  Very good.
[55:40.270 --> 55:40.770]  The phone's ringing.
[55:41.230 --> 55:41.390]  Yeah.
[55:41.770 --> 55:43.410]  That's how you've got that magic touch.
[55:43.430 --> 55:44.010]  That's amazing.
[55:45.330 --> 55:45.650]  That's great.
[55:45.910 --> 55:46.510]  Do it some more.
[55:46.590 --> 55:47.030]  Wow, you're doing very well, too.
[55:47.030 --> 55:47.770]  There's two calls now.
[55:47.970 --> 55:48.110]  Yes.
[55:48.150 --> 55:48.530]  Keep going.
[55:48.650 --> 55:48.970]  Keep going.
[55:49.150 --> 55:50.070]  You're on a roll here.
[55:50.110 --> 55:53.770]  Station service has a great melting pot between different communities.
[55:54.050 --> 55:59.270]  We have humanist shows, alternative medicine, or pseudoscience shows, basically.
[55:59.930 --> 56:01.870]  We have Christian shows, too.
[56:01.870 --> 56:02.210]  pseudoscience.
[56:02.630 --> 56:03.870]  That's a great way to sell it.
[56:04.110 --> 56:04.590]  You're way of...
[56:05.370 --> 56:05.950]  All right.
[56:06.030 --> 56:10.830]  Well, we can critique other shows, too, but I think that might lead to some retorting of critiquing.
[56:11.190 --> 56:18.410]  So we have all different types of social activist communities all, like, melting into one and coming together to support the station.
[56:18.410 --> 56:22.090]  And this is a fact that a lot of people don't know, is we don't always all agree with each other.
[56:22.290 --> 56:22.630]  That's right.
[56:22.710 --> 56:23.690]  We sometimes... No, it's true.
[56:23.830 --> 56:28.670]  We sometimes disagree, and sometimes those disagreements are reported on front pages of newspapers.
[56:28.890 --> 56:32.190]  But the reason for that is because this is such a precious commodity.
[56:32.190 --> 56:36.290]  This is such a hotbed of thought and philosophy and things like that.
[56:36.390 --> 56:39.330]  You go to any place where there are thinking people, you're going to see all kinds of disagreements.
[56:39.630 --> 56:42.590]  So, you know, there can be good, there can be bad in that.
[56:42.670 --> 56:46.870]  But I think we all agree that having the place here is better than not having the place here.
[56:47.010 --> 56:54.030]  If you feel something for that, call us and support the place so that we can continue this project, which has been going for 50 years now.
[56:54.170 --> 56:55.850]  212-209-2950.
[56:56.590 --> 56:56.990]  $75.
[56:57.070 --> 56:58.870]  You'll get the full off-the-hook archive.
[56:59.090 --> 57:04.110]  20 years of hacker radio that is unheard on any other radio station.
[57:04.650 --> 57:08.550]  And you'll also get your choice of a black or a tan polo shirt.
[57:08.870 --> 57:10.950]  Brand new 2600 waste management polo shirts.
[57:11.350 --> 57:17.150]  For a pledge of 125, you'll get the full off-the-hook audio archive.
[57:17.530 --> 57:18.670]  Is it that time already?
[57:18.670 --> 57:20.370]  Something touching just walked in.
[57:20.510 --> 57:20.730]  Yeah.
[57:20.910 --> 57:22.350]  And he's got the shirt on.
[57:22.750 --> 57:27.010]  Off-the-hook audio archive for 125 plus five years of 2600 magazine.
[57:27.210 --> 57:27.370]  You know what?
[57:27.390 --> 57:28.150]  We're out of time, folks.
[57:28.290 --> 57:28.750]  We're out of time.
[57:29.110 --> 57:30.350]  We have two calls on the line.
[57:30.690 --> 57:33.250]  You know, you have a few minutes to take advantage of this deal.
[57:33.450 --> 57:35.290]  212-209-2950.
[57:35.330 --> 57:36.090]  Please give us a call.
[57:36.230 --> 57:38.990]  Thanks to everybody who called in and supported us so far.
[57:39.530 --> 57:40.950]  We know there's a few more of you out there.
[57:41.110 --> 57:42.950]  No matter where you are in the world, give us a call.
[57:43.110 --> 57:44.070]  We'd love to hear from you.
[57:44.670 --> 57:45.690]  We'll see you next week.
[57:45.690 --> 57:47.410]  Here's another song about computers.
[57:47.710 --> 57:49.610]  212-209-2950.
[57:49.850 --> 57:50.110]  Good night.
[58:05.380 --> 58:08.500]  I work down at the pizza pit.
[58:08.560 --> 58:11.200]  And I drive an old Hyundai.
[58:12.580 --> 58:15.740]  I still live with my mom and dad.
[58:16.120 --> 58:18.280]  I'm five foot three and old away.
[58:19.260 --> 58:21.420]  I'm a sci-fi fanatic.
[58:21.820 --> 58:23.200]  I'm a mild asthmatic.
[58:23.200 --> 58:25.620]  Never been to second base.
[58:26.040 --> 58:30.340]  But there's a whole nother me that you need to see.
[58:30.600 --> 58:33.140]  Go check out my space.
[58:34.060 --> 58:36.440]  Cause all, all mine.
[58:36.440 --> 58:37.620]  I'm out in Hollywood.
[58:37.980 --> 58:41.420]  I'm six foot five and I look damn good.
[58:41.520 --> 58:42.840]  I drive a Maserati.
[58:42.840 --> 58:44.600]  I'm a black belt in karate.
[58:44.660 --> 58:47.260]  And I love a good glass of wine.
[58:47.260 --> 58:51.980]  It turns girls on that I'm mysterious.
[58:52.040 --> 58:55.580]  I tell them I don't want nothing serious.
[58:55.880 --> 59:02.680]  Cause even on a slow day, I can have a three-way chat with two women at one time.
[59:02.680 --> 59:05.200]  I'm out so much cooler online.
[59:06.180 --> 59:08.840]  So much cooler online.
[59:10.040 --> 59:15.840]  I get home, I kiss my mom, and she fixes me a snack.
[59:16.780 --> 59:22.940]  And I head down to my basement bedroom, and fire up my Mac.
[59:24.640 --> 59:30.360]  In real life, the only time I've ever even been to L.A.
[59:30.900 --> 59:37.620]  Was when I got the chance with the marching band to play tuba in the Rose Parade.
[59:38.780 --> 59:42.560]  But all the whole line, I live in Malibu.
[59:42.720 --> 59:44.680]  I pose for Calvin Klein.
[59:44.680 --> 59:46.100]  I've been in GQ.
[59:46.380 --> 59:51.980]  I'm single and rich, and I got a set of six-pack abs that would blow your mind.
[59:51.980 --> 59:56.680]  And it turns girls on that I'm mysterious.
[59:56.700 --> 01:00:00.340]  I tell them I don't want nothing serious.
[01:00:00.620 --> 01:00:07.380]  Cause even on a slow day, I can have a three-way chat with two women at one time.
[01:00:07.380 --> 01:00:10.040]  I'm so much cooler online.
[01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:13.620]  Yeah, I'm cooler online.
[01:00:14.140 --> 01:00:20.720]  When you've got my kind of stats, it's hard to get a date, let alone a real girlfriend.
[01:00:21.420 --> 01:00:29.540]  But I grow another third, and I lose a bunch of weight every time I log in.
[01:00:29.620 --> 01:00:31.380]  Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun.
[01:00:31.380 --> 01:00:34.100]  Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun...
[01:00:34.100 --> 01:00:36.500]  Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun...
[01:00:36.500 --> 01:00:36.600]  Meh.