[00:00.000 --> 00:12.380]  Join us tomorrow for a special FSRN documentary, The Culture of Food, a look at the accessibility of nutritious food in the country's capital, produced by the youth media group Radio Roots.
[00:12.520 --> 00:15.320]  That's tomorrow on Free Speech Radio News.
[00:15.680 --> 00:17.680]  From New York, I'm Dorian Marina.
[00:17.880 --> 00:18.740]  Thanks for listening.
[00:35.670 --> 00:36.470]  Okay, I hit the button.
[00:36.610 --> 00:37.410]  I don't know why it didn't work.
[00:37.550 --> 00:39.310]  But yes, you're listening to WBAI.
[00:39.450 --> 00:40.050]  It's a minute early.
[00:40.230 --> 00:42.950]  And if the button worked, you'd be hearing a public service announcement right now.
[00:43.470 --> 00:44.770]  But unfortunately, you're not.
[00:44.790 --> 00:48.190]  You're hearing me and an extra minute of Off the Hook.
[01:07.420 --> 01:08.740]  But if they could, they would.
[01:09.080 --> 01:09.700]  Von Dillibom.
[01:09.860 --> 01:10.960]  But the best is fake.
[01:11.180 --> 01:11.640]  The worst.
[01:12.400 --> 01:14.120]  I hope that's understood.
[01:14.340 --> 01:15.200]  Von Dillibom.
[02:06.220 --> 02:08.560]  And very good to be heard by the program is Off the Hook.
[02:08.670 --> 02:11.560]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:12.180 --> 02:14.020]  Joined tonight by Gus.
[02:14.350 --> 02:14.790]  Oh, hi.
[02:15.120 --> 02:15.610]  Voltaire.
[02:15.860 --> 02:15.990]  Hello.
[02:16.180 --> 02:16.550]  Jim.
[02:16.990 --> 02:17.210]  Hi.
[02:17.850 --> 02:18.860]  And Rhett.
[02:19.120 --> 02:19.360]  Hey.
[02:19.550 --> 02:21.820]  In New York and down in Philadelphia, Bernie S.
[02:22.460 --> 02:24.080]  Happy Thanksgiving from Philadelphia.
[02:24.620 --> 02:26.110]  You celebrate it down there too, huh?
[02:26.760 --> 02:27.120]  Yeah.
[02:27.550 --> 02:31.990]  The mayor just announced a new slogan for the city of Philadelphia today.
[02:32.210 --> 02:33.050]  There's another chance?
[02:33.290 --> 02:34.230]  What is it this time?
[02:34.580 --> 02:37.460]  It's going to be life, liberty, and you.
[02:38.350 --> 02:40.710]  So the pursuit of happiness sets out the window, huh?
[02:41.120 --> 02:41.490]  Exactly.
[02:41.620 --> 02:42.110]  It's just you.
[02:42.290 --> 02:42.760]  You don't...
[02:42.760 --> 02:45.680]  Well, it used to be life, liberty, and property, right?
[02:46.180 --> 02:46.540]  So...
[02:46.540 --> 02:46.820]  Really?
[02:47.040 --> 02:47.560]  When was that?
[02:47.820 --> 02:49.320]  No, that was before the American Revolution.
[02:49.860 --> 02:50.620]  But yeah, but still.
[02:50.760 --> 02:52.480]  I mean, that was initially the idea.
[02:52.480 --> 02:53.300]  Life, liberty, and property.
[02:53.300 --> 02:53.850]  Property, yeah.
[02:53.980 --> 02:56.460]  Sounds like something that a lot of people I know would be into.
[02:57.320 --> 02:58.560]  But... Oh, okay.
[02:58.640 --> 02:59.820]  Well, congratulations on that, Bernie.
[03:00.020 --> 03:01.140]  Nice new slogan down there.
[03:01.740 --> 03:01.980]  Thank you.
[03:02.200 --> 03:02.440]  Yeah.
[03:02.700 --> 03:05.520]  So a bit of a skeleton crew tonight, I guess, because of the holidays.
[03:05.680 --> 03:06.640]  A lot of people are away.
[03:06.820 --> 03:08.260]  The non-New Yorkers have gone home.
[03:09.620 --> 03:11.120]  And yeah, here we are.
[03:11.380 --> 03:12.760]  We're taking phone calls in a little bit.
[03:12.760 --> 03:21.320]  But we have all kinds of things to discuss, all kinds of interesting items, interesting news events that have taken place.
[03:22.860 --> 03:32.100]  And I guess the most interesting one, and I don't want to spend the whole hour on this, but we easily could, is this whole talk about Google and Microsoft and the News Corporation.
[03:32.440 --> 03:33.220]  Can I hear about this?
[03:33.890 --> 03:34.200]  Yeah.
[03:34.360 --> 03:37.360]  Microsoft has been in early discussions with the News Corporation.
[03:37.500 --> 03:39.720]  They're the guys that own the New York Post.
[03:39.890 --> 03:41.320]  That's Jim's favorite paper, right?
[03:43.800 --> 03:47.460]  And basically, that's the media conglomerate controlled by Rupert Murdoch.
[03:47.740 --> 04:02.120]  Now, what they want to do is they want to pay, Microsoft, that is, wants to pay the News Corporation to remove links to its news content from Google's search engine and display them exclusively on Bing.
[04:02.760 --> 04:06.640]  Now, a lot of people out there, I sense, are asking, what in God's name is Bing?
[04:07.000 --> 04:08.140]  Who wants to answer that?
[04:08.390 --> 04:08.860]  Is that right?
[04:09.040 --> 04:09.400]  Bing Crosby.
[04:09.600 --> 04:10.560]  No, it's not Bing Crosby.
[04:10.560 --> 04:11.760]  It might be named after him.
[04:12.410 --> 04:15.320]  Microsoft's latest search engine that they want to compete against Google with.
[04:15.340 --> 04:16.210]  Which I've never used.
[04:16.500 --> 04:17.280]  How do you get there?
[04:17.500 --> 04:18.140]  What's the...
[04:18.140 --> 04:18.900]  Bing.com?
[04:19.100 --> 04:21.520]  Actually, live.com will take you out there, too.
[04:21.600 --> 04:25.350]  And I think msn.com, a lot of the places, because they're now trying to turn that into their portal.
[04:25.350 --> 04:26.400]  Yeah, this is their third attempt.
[04:27.090 --> 04:28.420]  And what were the two before then?
[04:29.180 --> 04:30.920]  Live.com and msn.com.
[04:31.020 --> 04:31.120]  Yeah.
[04:31.240 --> 04:32.380]  Or it's their third rebranding.
[04:32.680 --> 04:32.860]  Yeah.
[04:33.360 --> 04:33.710]  Okay.
[04:33.940 --> 04:35.090]  Although, msn kind of still exists.
[04:35.280 --> 04:36.210]  So now, this is interesting.
[04:36.350 --> 04:44.300]  They say, according to the New York Times, this would be a watershed moment in the history of the Internet and it'll set off a fierce debate over the future of content online.
[04:44.350 --> 04:46.860]  What's interesting here is that we always had this ability.
[04:47.120 --> 04:55.350]  We could always tell Google to stop looking at our site or to basically read a file and don't look here for various bits of content.
[04:55.500 --> 04:57.330]  It kind of tells you where the content is by doing that.
[04:57.850 --> 05:10.140]  But in this particular case, what News Corporation wants to do is simply not be visible in Google and basically take themselves off where the vast majority of people get information.
[05:10.860 --> 05:14.830]  Legally, it's perfectly fine, but it might be suicide business-wise, right?
[05:14.940 --> 05:17.300]  Can we talk about this technically just for a second, like how this would work?
[05:17.300 --> 05:17.710]  Because it's...
[05:17.710 --> 05:19.730]  So did the article say that they...
[05:19.730 --> 05:21.330]  that Microsoft asked...
[05:21.330 --> 05:21.800]  No, sorry.
[05:21.980 --> 05:24.260]  News Corp asked Microsoft to take them out of Google?
[05:24.420 --> 05:25.030]  Was that how it went?
[05:25.790 --> 05:26.540]  Is that what it says?
[05:26.700 --> 05:27.920]  No, I don't think it says...
[05:27.920 --> 05:28.400]  Go ahead.
[05:28.460 --> 05:30.080]  Because that sounds strange to me because I know that...
[05:30.080 --> 05:34.480]  I mean, like the basic way to make your stuff disappear from all search engines is robots.txt.
[05:34.620 --> 05:34.720]  Right.
[05:34.720 --> 05:35.840]  It's got a file called robots.txt.
[05:36.120 --> 05:40.060]  And actually, if you want to know more about that, and I think everybody should, you should go to...
[05:40.060 --> 05:46.800]  I think it's robots.txt.org, which will tell you about these pages that keep pages off of search engines.
[05:46.800 --> 05:47.300]  Right.
[05:47.760 --> 05:56.540]  Well, I believe they have other files to look at as well, but it's not just simply a matter of Microsoft going to them.
[05:56.800 --> 06:01.440]  There was a lot of talk that the reason News Corp was doing this was because they feel like they're losing a lot of money.
[06:03.340 --> 06:12.840]  And, you know, by people just going and reading these stories and not paying any subscriptions and whatnot, and that they were going into an exclusive deal with Microsoft.
[06:12.840 --> 06:18.320]  But there's also talk that Microsoft is trying to work out similar deals with other companies.
[06:19.840 --> 06:21.200]  So it's a little hazy.
[06:21.400 --> 06:21.500]  Yeah.
[06:21.600 --> 06:26.880]  Well, the big crisis here in the newspaper world is that information is getting out and nobody's paying for it.
[06:27.120 --> 06:28.060]  And they need...
[06:28.060 --> 06:28.440]  They're desperate.
[06:28.560 --> 06:34.720]  This is, I think, a desperate move on their part to try and get some kind of control over their content.
[06:34.720 --> 06:43.320]  And by basically shutting the door on Google, who they view as taking advantage of their content and getting it for nothing.
[06:43.540 --> 06:47.400]  This is part of Rupert Murdoch's bigger, like, whole scheme.
[06:47.840 --> 06:53.840]  He's been kind of like the most Luddite, I guess, of all the newspaper industries.
[06:53.840 --> 06:59.220]  Kind of like he's trying to reinvent all the failures that the RIAA made back in the day.
[06:59.900 --> 07:02.960]  Yeah, that's another example of somebody refusing to see the future.
[07:03.100 --> 07:10.100]  But, you know, I have to wonder, what is the future for newspapers when everyone is, you know, reading things off free websites?
[07:11.160 --> 07:17.060]  And the idea of paying for a paper these days, you know, it's kind of foreign to a lot of people.
[07:17.140 --> 07:17.880]  The future is here.
[07:17.980 --> 07:19.620]  It's just not evenly redistributed.
[07:19.800 --> 07:20.080]  Mm-hmm.
[07:20.420 --> 07:20.580]  Yeah.
[07:20.840 --> 07:21.140]  Manual?
[07:21.260 --> 07:21.680]  It seems that way.
[07:21.720 --> 07:22.020]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[07:23.840 --> 07:26.980]  This is really going to backfire on these guys.
[07:27.640 --> 07:32.080]  What happens now, Google is by far the most popular search engine on the Internet now.
[07:32.320 --> 07:36.420]  And it drives a lot of traffic to newspapers' websites.
[07:36.720 --> 07:42.300]  When you go to Google News and you see all these headlines, I read a lot more than the headlines.
[07:42.420 --> 07:53.500]  If I see a story I'm interested in, I'll click on that and be taken to the newspaper's website and then be subjected to all the ads on that newspaper's website, which is fine.
[07:53.500 --> 07:55.340]  I mean, it's their right to put up ads on their own website.
[07:55.760 --> 07:58.680]  And they make money from that because of the click-through advertising.
[07:58.900 --> 08:06.420]  So the point is, they don't either click on the ads, they're viewed, and they can sell advertising.
[08:06.580 --> 08:09.680]  Newspaper can sell advertising based on the number of people who see the ads on the website.
[08:10.180 --> 08:21.040]  But with the vast majority of people on the Internet not seeing these newspaper stories anymore because they're not being displayed through Google News, I think they're going to lose revenue in the end.
[08:21.160 --> 08:23.100]  It's an interesting experiment, but I think it's going to fail.
[08:23.400 --> 08:34.030]  That actually is a big question that a lot of people have been talking about, is that, you know, is everybody, by News Corp simply cutting off Google, is everybody all of a sudden going to jump over to Bing?
[08:34.220 --> 08:50.860]  Most people are saying that what's going to happen is, you know, a lot of people are using Google, so much so that its name has become a verb, and that when, if they decide to actually go through with this and cut themselves off, they're simply going to disappear to a lot of the people that do any searches on the web.
[08:51.140 --> 08:56.050]  Well, there's a lot of, I mean, there's other sort of traffic patterns at play here, too.
[08:56.220 --> 09:09.380]  I mean, Microsoft has sort of a major lock on the search engine market simply because so many people buy Windows machines, and Windows machines come pre-shipped with Internet Explorer on the desktop, and, you know, a link that suddenly loads Microsoft content.
[09:09.570 --> 09:13.860]  It'll load Bing, or it'll load Hotmail, or whatever else they want them to load right away.
[09:14.080 --> 09:16.640]  So, I mean, that begins driving traffic that way to begin with.
[09:16.660 --> 09:25.840]  And I feel like we already have this sort of split between people who know to go to Google and people who know to go to Google as if it's somehow better, but, like, people who go to Google versus people who go to Bing.
[09:26.180 --> 09:33.070]  And so, I mean, that already, you can't just say that Bing's going to fall off the radar because of that, because there's another choke point that Microsoft has.
[09:33.180 --> 09:33.290]  Whoa.
[09:34.810 --> 09:42.120]  Google might also be trying to hedge themselves against that with their operating systems like, well, so-called operating systems like Chrome and whatnot.
[09:42.580 --> 09:42.940]  Right.
[09:43.120 --> 09:43.200]  Yeah.
[09:43.310 --> 09:47.620]  I mean, everybody has sort of an arsenal of different tactics they're using to try to get around this.
[09:47.680 --> 09:52.310]  And it's just, it's sort of interesting that this is the, you know, that News Corporation is working at this level.
[09:52.380 --> 09:55.330]  They're working at the level, they're finally working at the level of technology to try to do this.
[09:55.460 --> 10:01.940]  So, like, they're working at the robots.txt and the search algorithm level rather than continuing to scream about how they're bleeding ad revenue.
[10:02.070 --> 10:08.270]  Now, Dot Red, you were theorizing earlier before the show on what could happen at Google if they step on too many feet.
[10:08.480 --> 10:08.790]  Ah, yeah.
[10:08.920 --> 10:09.070]  Right?
[10:09.400 --> 10:09.550]  Yeah.
[10:09.720 --> 10:12.100]  This seemed like a couple of things going on to me.
[10:12.960 --> 10:30.830]  Firsthand, you have what's going on from News Corp's point of view where they, them and a lot of news companies and other publications seem to resent sites like Google because they feel like, you know, people don't want to pay for these things and that's what they depended on for so long and they don't know how to redesign this model.
[10:31.220 --> 10:36.790]  You have, they're competing with Microsoft with all their cloud applications.
[10:37.250 --> 10:38.270]  But these guys are putting up websites.
[10:38.480 --> 10:39.920]  They're putting up websites of their newspapers.
[10:40.050 --> 10:43.400]  It's not like Google is scanning their newspapers and sticking it on the internet.
[10:43.550 --> 10:44.220]  They're putting it on there.
[10:44.290 --> 10:46.010]  All Google is doing is pointing people to it.
[10:46.080 --> 10:47.080]  So, where's the resentment?
[10:47.360 --> 10:48.480]  Well, that's what Google says.
[10:48.640 --> 10:55.070]  But then on the other side, you have News Corp saying that people are reading all this news off of Google's website for free.
[10:55.220 --> 10:56.460]  They aren't paying any subscriptions.
[10:57.030 --> 11:00.220]  And in the meantime, Google is making money off of their ads.
[11:00.220 --> 11:00.620]  Uh-huh.
[11:00.900 --> 11:15.340]  So, I guess countering that, if the newspaper industry could figure out a way to do something to Google that would cut into their profit and get something for free that Google wants to sell, you know, then it would be a tit for tat and maybe they won't be happy.
[11:15.380 --> 11:17.480]  Well, I think that's the wrong way to look at it.
[11:17.560 --> 11:29.580]  Instead of simply trying to do a tit for tat, which simply leaves everybody, well, hurt in some way, try to figure out how to create a symbiotic relationship with all this new technology instead of fearing it.
[11:29.800 --> 11:30.010]  Uh-huh.
[11:30.180 --> 11:32.580]  Well, for that, they have to sort of understand the new technology.
[11:32.580 --> 11:34.180]  And that's a big jump right there.
[11:34.360 --> 11:46.920]  When you hear these old media companies like News Corp complaining about Google cutting into their revenues, they're using, really just using Google as a synonym for the internet in its entirety.
[11:47.120 --> 11:50.600]  It's not a realistic argument and it's kind of a futile one.
[11:50.700 --> 11:50.860]  All right.
[11:50.980 --> 12:02.360]  So, let's, as people that are supposedly somewhat savvy, somewhat net savvy, let's give the newspaper industry some advice as to how they can save their business model and embrace new technology at the same time.
[12:02.460 --> 12:03.440]  Oh, hands are going up.
[12:03.580 --> 12:04.220]  You're not going to save it.
[12:04.460 --> 12:04.820]  Okay.
[12:04.860 --> 12:05.860]  You don't want to save it at all?
[12:05.920 --> 12:06.120]  No.
[12:06.380 --> 12:06.640]  Newspapers.
[12:06.960 --> 12:08.540]  I don't just want to save it.
[12:08.640 --> 12:10.800]  It's just that I don't think that they're going to...
[12:10.800 --> 12:15.600]  It's too difficult for them to save it from the inside of each company.
[12:15.720 --> 12:20.660]  I think that they're going to each... they'll eventually boil down and it'll keep going the way it's going right now.
[12:20.840 --> 12:21.040]  Uh-huh.
[12:21.100 --> 12:22.800]  So, it sounds to me like they've got nothing to lose.
[12:22.960 --> 12:28.600]  So, people like Rupert Murdoch are going to come along and try and do battle wherever possible until the very last newspaper is gone.
[12:28.800 --> 12:28.800]  Yeah.
[12:28.800 --> 12:29.320]  It's futile.
[12:29.620 --> 12:29.800]  Uh-huh.
[12:29.980 --> 12:30.200]  All right.
[12:30.250 --> 12:30.530]  DotRet.
[12:30.680 --> 12:35.790]  Well, a lot of people think they do have nothing to lose and this is why it possibly might happen.
[12:35.900 --> 12:54.510]  But instead of simply going out and saying, let's block Google and then let's find some other search engine to... that'll pay us money, they should simply maybe just put out an announcement saying, we're going to charge, um, any indexing site to, uh, like a few... however many cents to,
[12:54.720 --> 12:59.080]  uh, um, uh, you know, to index us or index us many pages, what, what not.
[12:59.920 --> 13:00.320]  And...
[13:00.320 --> 13:01.160]  Charge to index.
[13:01.540 --> 13:07.120]  And then, uh, sites like Google, which would make all... which make all the money they do make would then be required to pay.
[13:07.300 --> 13:07.880]  It wouldn't be...
[13:07.880 --> 13:09.140]  I don't know if they can do that, though.
[13:09.340 --> 13:10.420]  I mean, that you can... well...
[13:10.420 --> 13:15.290]  Certainly, because you can say, there's... always Robux.txt is basically saying, don't look at these files.
[13:15.480 --> 13:19.200]  And so, I mean, if you, if you start looking at those files, that's sort of an ethical breach in a lot of ways.
[13:19.440 --> 13:21.510]  Yeah, they don't... they don't have to follow Robux.txt.
[13:21.560 --> 13:22.060]  They don't have to.
[13:22.060 --> 13:22.640]  Nobody has to follow Robux.txt.
[13:22.640 --> 13:25.700]  And we can all look at Robux.txt and see what files we're not supposed to look at.
[13:25.920 --> 13:25.960]  Exactly.
[13:38.280 --> 13:41.160]  And, uh, you know, seem somewhat anti-competitive.
[13:41.640 --> 13:44.200]  Uh, Bernie, any, uh, any suggestions from you?
[13:45.030 --> 13:56.120]  Um, I don't have any, any answers to solve the newspaper's problems, but I am very concerned about the fact that newspapers are going out of business left and right and losing a lot of money.
[13:56.300 --> 13:59.750]  And the reason that's a problem is because they hire journalists.
[14:00.120 --> 14:11.380]  I mean, real journalists, journalists who, who have formal journalistic training and they send them to, uh, or for, for years, they've been sending them to, like, foreign, foreign news bureaus around the world.
[14:11.580 --> 14:12.770]  That's not happening anymore.
[14:12.980 --> 14:20.400]  We're not getting the on-scene reporting that we used to get as nearly as much as we used to.
[14:20.560 --> 14:22.620]  And that's a problem with keeping people informed.
[14:22.620 --> 14:32.380]  I think, I think, uh, I think the press has a, has a very, a huge value in our society to balance out government misinformation and disinformation.
[14:32.920 --> 14:43.900]  And, uh, I don't have a solution to this problem, but I hope newspapers can survive in order to keep paying legitimate journalists to write real news.
[14:44.040 --> 14:49.290]  Well, I mean, it's interesting that you point out that, um, uh, they, they exist to, uh, to counter, uh, government propaganda.
[14:49.530 --> 14:56.700]  Uh, maybe governments around the world are, are interested in seeing newspapers go down, uh, in, in this manner.
[14:56.920 --> 14:59.510]  It might, might be, uh, kind of interesting, uh, interesting scenario though.
[14:59.580 --> 15:00.580]  Gus, do you have, uh, an idea?
[15:00.660 --> 15:04.120]  My, my take on this is just what we, what needs to happen is a social hack.
[15:04.290 --> 15:05.540]  I've sort of been feeling this way for a while.
[15:05.680 --> 15:19.600]  I mean, like I said, I probably said before, I was up at the J school at Columbia, the journalism school at Columbia last year, where the, um, uh, publisher of the, or the managing editor of the New Yorker or no, the New York times.
[15:19.720 --> 15:19.940]  I forget.
[15:20.250 --> 15:20.560]  No, sorry.
[15:20.640 --> 15:24.840]  The Dean of the Columbia journalism school was saying he expected the New York times to go out of businesses here.
[15:25.560 --> 15:26.980]  And he, Oh, come on.
[15:27.100 --> 15:27.860]  That's not going to happen.
[15:28.040 --> 15:28.040]  No, no.
[15:28.140 --> 15:28.600]  He, he said it.
[15:28.680 --> 15:29.400]  He said he thought it would happen.
[15:29.460 --> 15:33.580]  Everybody was talking about the possibility that it might go to a nonprofit model.
[15:33.770 --> 15:35.320]  You'd have to start up a foundation to support it.
[15:35.400 --> 15:39.820]  But you had all of these, you know, journalism scholars in the room and they're all like, woe is me.
[15:40.030 --> 15:40.960]  Newspapers are going to die.
[15:41.220 --> 15:50.620]  And us younger journalists, you know, scholars and communication scholars were in the room going, why are you complaining now when all we've heard from you throughout our education is they're subject to monopoly.
[15:50.960 --> 15:55.060]  They're manipulated by the government says Noam Chomsky, you know, you get all this, the cycle of propaganda.
[15:55.060 --> 15:57.250]  So why are you concerned that we're going to lose newspapers?
[15:57.510 --> 16:04.040]  And I think the thing to keep in mind is that we, it's not that we want to, we don't, it probably doesn't matter if we lose newspapers.
[16:04.270 --> 16:12.800]  What matters, like Bernie said, is if we lose journalists, because journalists have a set of skills, they have a set of privileges for getting into places where other people don't necessarily get to go.
[16:12.960 --> 16:17.980]  And they, you know, know how to present information in a way that is useful.
[16:18.180 --> 16:26.290]  So saying to journalists, we need you to articulate what's important about journalism and keep that rather than keeping newspapers, I think is the important thing.
[16:26.290 --> 16:33.040]  I don't think, I don't think we're in danger of losing journalists because journalism is not something someone gets into to buy a new house.
[16:33.160 --> 16:39.320]  It's something they get into because they're impassioned about something and they're a bit out of their minds and with, with dedication.
[16:39.560 --> 16:43.750]  Look at this place, look at Pacifica, look at WBAI, look at the news that we put on every single day.
[16:43.900 --> 16:47.200]  And that's people that are not getting paid doing this.
[16:47.560 --> 16:49.700]  And lots of times it's first rate.
[16:49.980 --> 16:53.420]  Lots of times they uncover stories that the rest of the media doesn't care about.
[16:53.620 --> 16:55.030]  As long as people are driven to do this.
[16:55.140 --> 16:59.300]  Now newspapers, at the same time, can be saved by simply adjusting what it is they do.
[16:59.440 --> 17:01.700]  For instance, the New York Times says, how many sections now?
[17:01.840 --> 17:02.660]  Every single day?
[17:02.790 --> 17:03.700]  Like six different sections?
[17:03.800 --> 17:04.560]  You don't need all that.
[17:04.660 --> 17:12.620]  Which is another reason why people have been critiquing the news since forever because the news hole gets smaller and smaller while you have more entertainment content and more style section things.
[17:12.620 --> 17:15.790]  You have something like the International Herald Tribune, which is a newspaper I read when I travel.
[17:15.940 --> 17:19.460]  It's about 20, 24 pages of just pretty much hard news.
[17:19.460 --> 17:23.360]  Very few ads, some ads, but it's enough to sustain people.
[17:23.530 --> 17:24.960]  It doesn't cost as much to print.
[17:25.080 --> 17:30.960]  And when we found out when we had the Yes Men up here a few weeks ago, how little it cost to actually print a newspaper, just several thousand dollars for what they did.
[17:31.580 --> 17:36.680]  It sounds like something that can be sustained if they simply cut out a lot of the fat.
[17:36.960 --> 17:43.420]  I think the journalism is always going to survive as long as people are impassioned enough and we have a free society where people can look into things.
[17:43.640 --> 17:49.030]  What you were saying about what they do and who gets to do it, I mean, journalism wasn't a profession for very long at all.
[17:49.160 --> 17:53.800]  It's still sort of barely ensconced in universities as something people get trained to do for a long time.
[17:53.980 --> 17:58.980]  It was just guys right out of high school who were, you know, who went and did cub reporting and worked their way up.
[17:59.160 --> 18:04.560]  And it's not like it isn't necessarily a set of skills that are really, really hard to learn.
[18:04.800 --> 18:15.450]  The thing that's really hard to get is to have a set of people who are allowed access by the government and allowed access by other people who are in power and have a great deal of control over money and resources.
[18:15.710 --> 18:20.100]  And so that's the the value that we're getting over having these journalistic institutions.
[18:20.380 --> 18:25.030]  So the institutions are worth protecting for that reason, but they're going to have to change.
[18:26.860 --> 18:39.620]  As for on-site reporters, well, something we're starting to see a lot of are people using social media like Twitter, and actually beating the journalists to the stories, which is funny.
[18:39.620 --> 18:42.820]  It was 16 minutes before we said the word Twitter, at least today.
[18:43.860 --> 19:00.600]  But then also, on the other hand, you could also still have, say, not-for-profit companies that simply have journalists and then the news from the social media and not-for-profit investigative journalists are picked up by companies like, say, Google and whatnot that do it for free.
[19:00.950 --> 19:03.450]  That might be what you end up seeing happen in the future.
[19:03.600 --> 19:03.750]  Right.
[19:03.860 --> 19:09.540]  So those things, I mean, the existence of people who do the same kind of work of journalists sort of is everywhere.
[19:09.560 --> 19:13.690]  But like I said, it's the institutions that get the press credentials.
[19:13.800 --> 19:14.990]  And press credentials are really important.
[19:15.100 --> 19:17.540]  I've been at protests and wanted to talk to police.
[19:17.540 --> 19:20.540]  Not just credentials, but background, so they know what it is they're talking about.
[19:20.800 --> 19:26.620]  Training and background and credentials and usual recognition between various people.
[19:26.640 --> 19:28.790]  I mean, because you have to have a group of people.
[19:28.860 --> 19:30.140]  I mean, like, I don't know.
[19:30.920 --> 19:39.660]  If you didn't have journalists, I think politicians and other people in power sort of feel like, oh, you'd have the entirety of the rabble coming to ask you the questions that you don't want to be asked, and that would be harder for you.
[19:39.800 --> 19:39.820]  Yeah.
[19:39.820 --> 19:39.950]  Walter?
[19:40.120 --> 19:53.080]  I think as time progresses, we'll see less importance placed on the institution or the name of the media company you're representing and more importance placed on your actual name and the brand of the individual, I guess.
[19:53.530 --> 19:55.120]  Oh, this is what... Like a drudge report.
[19:55.120 --> 19:56.230]  No, no.
[19:56.790 --> 20:00.530]  Like, more like the actual reporter's name and their background.
[20:00.540 --> 20:02.120]  Well, that's the quote-unquote reporter's name, yes.
[20:02.120 --> 20:05.540]  Well, yeah, but he has lots of quote-unquote reporters working for him.
[20:05.790 --> 20:06.290]  Right, right.
[20:06.560 --> 20:07.190]  Huh, good point.
[20:07.490 --> 20:08.990]  All right, go ahead, Bernie, and then Dot Red.
[20:09.670 --> 20:14.920]  Okay, I just wanted to mention that you mentioned the International Herald Tribune, which actually is part of the New York Times company.
[20:15.120 --> 20:15.320]  Yes, yes.
[20:15.400 --> 20:16.620]  Now it's totally part of the New York Times.
[20:16.730 --> 20:18.320]  It used to be New York Times and Washington Post.
[20:18.540 --> 20:25.860]  And they share reporters from both publications for the International Herald Tribune, which is published.
[20:26.360 --> 20:29.060]  It is sold in like 200 countries around the world.
[20:29.300 --> 20:41.530]  It's really interesting that a newspaper of a seemingly higher caliber of the International Herald Tribune seems to be doing better financially than the New York Times, which owns it.
[20:41.620 --> 20:43.820]  So maybe they should learn some lessons.
[20:43.820 --> 20:48.990]  Well, I mean, I think it's got something to do with how much money they're actually spending printing and various things like that.
[20:49.080 --> 20:50.140]  It's not a lot of fluff in there.
[20:50.210 --> 20:59.920]  But I think that also raises an interesting point in that so many newspapers these days are owned by other companies, other newspapers in different parts of the country, distant cities.
[21:00.450 --> 21:02.880]  And they don't really have a tie to the community.
[21:03.010 --> 21:13.490]  I think the most successful newspapers are the ones that are local, that are owned by somebody who lives in the area, that have lots of advertising for local businesses that have community support.
[21:13.660 --> 21:20.900]  I think that's the solution to keeping newspapers alive, not having everything owned by the Los Angeles Times or the Chicago Tribune.
[21:20.900 --> 21:26.290]  And they really don't care how a newspaper in Boston does, for instance.
[21:26.750 --> 21:34.210]  Well, all these things that we're saying is really why I agree with the point that we need to have something of a social hack going on.
[21:35.140 --> 21:41.340]  You know, I can't see fighting to keep the physical newspaper alive, for instance.
[21:41.600 --> 21:43.560]  You know, it does seem to be going very digital.
[21:43.790 --> 22:01.120]  But having institutions of some sort that still exist that, like say, not-for-profit or whatever, that are able to have credentials given to whoever works for them is something that you could see happening in the future.
[22:01.240 --> 22:04.900]  You know, like just, you know, reorganizing where they're cutting away all that extra fat.
[22:05.700 --> 22:06.100]  Yes.
[22:06.720 --> 22:07.190]  All right.
[22:07.280 --> 22:10.960]  Well, I said we could spend the whole hour talking about this, and we easily could.
[22:11.190 --> 22:18.820]  But it's time for us to move on because there's so many other things going on in the news this week, including a rather silly story.
[22:18.980 --> 22:20.280]  I cannot believe this one.
[22:20.710 --> 22:24.240]  This actually took place on Long Island.
[22:24.520 --> 22:27.560]  And I think it's history, history in the making.
[22:27.780 --> 22:37.800]  A record company executive who police said failed to control a crowd of 3,000 at Roosevelt Field Mall during a planned Justin Bieber album signing.
[22:37.860 --> 22:38.880]  I don't know if I'm saying his name right.
[22:39.040 --> 22:40.240]  I'd never heard of him before this week.
[22:40.720 --> 22:50.420]  It's this 15-year-old kid out of Canada who posted YouTube videos of himself singing and wound up getting a record contract and becoming a teen idol overnight, it seems.
[22:50.900 --> 22:53.210]  It's either a dream come true or a nightmare.
[22:53.340 --> 22:54.080]  Who knows what it is.
[22:54.190 --> 23:01.800]  But it basically wound up turning into a bit of a riot, I guess, at the mall.
[23:02.220 --> 23:04.580]  In fact, I think we have some audio.
[23:04.580 --> 23:06.120]  A video of what it was that happened.
[23:06.400 --> 23:06.480]  Yeah.
[23:07.040 --> 23:15.740]  This is the sound of thousands and thousands of teenage girls being disappointed in a mall, waiting.
[23:16.240 --> 23:16.950]  Listen to this.
[23:17.660 --> 23:19.520]  They're waiting for him to show up.
[23:19.660 --> 23:24.480]  And apparently, he got so out of hand that they wouldn't even let him in.
[23:26.450 --> 23:27.210]  They're chanting.
[23:31.570 --> 23:32.490]  They want Justin.
[23:32.710 --> 23:34.570]  And they didn't get him because he didn't show up.
[23:34.690 --> 23:36.810]  Well, he did show up, but he wasn't allowed in the mall.
[23:36.870 --> 23:38.910]  In fact, he tweeted about this.
[23:39.550 --> 23:40.830]  There's a lot of tweeting going on.
[23:41.930 --> 23:42.370]  Yeah.
[23:42.590 --> 23:43.970]  Why do people do this?
[23:44.050 --> 23:44.310]  I don't know.
[23:44.470 --> 23:46.850]  This is like the Beatles in the early 60s.
[23:47.130 --> 23:53.690]  What is it in the human genome that makes people freak out like this over just seeing somebody?
[23:53.690 --> 23:55.390]  It's teenage girls, not people.
[23:55.630 --> 23:56.650]  Teenage girls are not people?
[23:56.770 --> 23:57.590]  Hey, watch it.
[23:59.670 --> 24:05.130]  Well, anyway, the point is, this was the scene on Long Island a few days ago.
[24:05.330 --> 24:08.110]  Now, how does this all tie into history?
[24:08.310 --> 24:16.930]  Well, this guy, the vice president of a record company, his name is James Roppo, was arrested.
[24:16.930 --> 24:21.330]  He was charged with endangering the welfare of a child, or maybe 3,000 children.
[24:21.890 --> 24:28.630]  Obstruction of governmental administration, reckless... It's very hard to concentrate.
[24:29.030 --> 24:33.610]  Reckless endangerment, and criminal nuisance.
[24:35.310 --> 24:47.610]  Five people suffered minor injuries at the mall Friday when estimated 3,000 girls and their parents, their parents are there too, who were lined up to see Justin Bieber sign autographs, grew unruly and aggressive, all kinds of pushing and shoving going on.
[24:47.830 --> 24:49.190]  Now, why did they arrest this guy?
[24:49.370 --> 24:55.310]  They arrested this guy because they still want Justin.
[24:55.550 --> 25:06.030]  He wouldn't send out a tweet telling people to disperse or that Justin wasn't showing up.
[25:07.850 --> 25:14.750]  And they view that as, I guess, endangering the welfare of all these people.
[25:15.510 --> 25:17.550]  Because there was eventually the trampling.
[25:17.650 --> 25:23.790]  The trampling began as their invert... and it always is when there's huge crowds of people and they want to get at some teen idol.
[25:23.970 --> 25:28.810]  But basically, can you command somebody to send out a tweet?
[25:28.810 --> 25:30.030]  I command you to tweet.
[25:30.290 --> 25:32.210]  I mean, this is what it's come down to.
[25:32.690 --> 25:43.950]  A guy becomes an overnight sensation through YouTube, and a riot is supposed to be stopped via Twitter, and you're arrested if you don't follow the command to send out a particular tweet.
[25:43.990 --> 25:46.890]  I think this is the first time someone's been arrested for not sending a tweet.
[25:46.950 --> 25:47.730]  Correct me if I'm wrong.
[25:47.950 --> 25:49.590]  Well, so you can... because you can think about it this way.
[25:49.690 --> 25:56.870]  So if there was an emergency, could you command CBS or ABC to do an emergency broadcast?
[25:57.070 --> 25:58.790]  I mean, there's always the emergency broadcast signal.
[25:58.890 --> 25:59.270]  That's one thing.
[25:59.370 --> 25:59.950]  And actually, we've got another article.
[25:59.950 --> 26:00.990]  The airways can be taken over.
[26:01.210 --> 26:04.430]  They can be taken over by the government at almost any time.
[26:04.510 --> 26:05.090]  Yeah, it's certainly possible.
[26:05.090 --> 26:12.550]  And there's... and there's, you know, we have that... we have an article floating around the studio right now about how they're now thinking about doing that to your Wii and your Xbox as well.
[26:12.810 --> 26:12.810]  Yes.
[26:13.130 --> 26:17.050]  Because they don't think that people will be on TV and they'll... or watching TV and they won't be listening to music.
[26:17.270 --> 26:18.430]  So this is actually pretty interesting.
[26:18.550 --> 26:19.430]  How are you going to give them the emergency broadcast?
[26:19.610 --> 26:20.390]  Jim brought this in.
[26:20.390 --> 26:24.210]  In the event of an emergency, the state of New York may seize control of your Xbox.
[26:25.430 --> 26:27.290]  I can't believe the things I'm reading these days.
[26:27.430 --> 26:35.390]  Video games will pause and warnings about imminent danger, severe weather, or amber alerts will appear on the screen.
[26:35.470 --> 26:36.450]  Not amber alerts.
[26:36.450 --> 26:42.870]  Yeah, under a new notification system for Xbox, Wii, and PlayStation set to go live next year.
[26:43.290 --> 26:46.110]  Not all people receive information just through radio and TV.
[26:46.110 --> 26:52.890]  So the idea is to reach them through other avenues, said Dennis Mikalski, a spokesman for the state emergency management.
[26:53.330 --> 27:02.050]  State residents can already subscribe to the New York alert system and receive everything from warnings about life-threatening emergencies to traffic reports via text messaging and email.
[27:02.270 --> 27:05.750]  The video game alerts will also be voluntary.
[27:05.990 --> 27:23.170]  But, and this is the interesting part, officials are working with technology companies to devise a non-voluntary version of the alerts, which could push messages to every cell phone and video game system in the event of a life-threatening situation, or just if they want to get your attention somehow.
[27:23.170 --> 27:23.650]  I don't know.
[27:23.810 --> 27:25.570]  That kind of, that kind of scares me.
[27:25.690 --> 27:31.410]  We pause your halo game to tell you that a child somewhere is in danger.
[27:31.410 --> 27:34.770]  Yeah, and that child is you, because we've taken control of your mind as well.
[27:35.150 --> 27:36.290]  And what do you think?
[27:36.290 --> 27:38.030]  Stop playing Grand Theft Auto.
[27:38.790 --> 27:42.470]  There's a girl who's in a van someplace, an unmarked van.
[27:42.630 --> 27:42.850]  Yes.
[27:42.950 --> 27:44.290]  Now, Bernie, what do you think about this?
[27:45.070 --> 28:02.110]  Well, I think it's a really awesome, not in a good way, but a really awesome amount of power that any government could have to basically get this very 1984-ish, where the government can basically tell you something, no matter what form of media you're using,
[28:02.270 --> 28:03.030]  all simultaneously.
[28:03.330 --> 28:14.890]  Congress and the FCC and the Department of Homeland Security are working right now to try to mandate FM receivers, FM radios, to be built into all cell phones sold in the United States.
[28:15.330 --> 28:19.510]  So that, well, I think the NAB is probably behind that, also to get people to listen to the radio again.
[28:19.670 --> 28:31.730]  But also, radios have the ability to receive, you know, digital messages like 3C radio, that kind of stuff, in ways that's not practical to do with text messaging.
[28:31.870 --> 28:35.930]  You could broadcast the same message to millions and millions of cell phones simultaneously.
[28:36.210 --> 28:37.750]  You can't do that with SMS.
[28:38.050 --> 28:38.850]  It just doesn't work.
[28:39.010 --> 28:41.770]  There's not enough capacity in the networks to do that.
[28:42.110 --> 28:53.610]  So I think the government, different branches of the government are working on having just some sort of totalitarian messaging system, where no matter what form of media you're using, they can just put a message in your face.
[28:53.750 --> 28:56.470]  And I have real concerns about that possibly being abused.
[28:57.030 --> 29:00.530]  Yeah, well, I'm just wondering the many different ways that it can be abused.
[29:00.690 --> 29:03.830]  It seems like there's there's almost an infinite set of possibilities.
[29:04.130 --> 29:07.210]  Jim just passed me a note that said Fahrenheit 451.
[29:07.290 --> 29:07.430]  Yeah.
[29:07.590 --> 29:15.710]  And it does remind me of the, you know, the, that there's this, there's a scene in that about, you know, a woman's watching TV, and it's immersive.
[29:15.930 --> 29:22.610]  And then suddenly, the government, I think, takes over, and this is broadcasting a car chase, because there's some important police activity going on.
[29:22.710 --> 29:24.110]  And you have to know because it's in your neighborhood.
[29:24.350 --> 29:27.150]  And I mean, it's sort of a way of instilling fear, really.
[29:27.270 --> 29:34.610]  I mean, it's just like, suddenly, you have to know that somebody's in danger, you have to participate in this fear about this person who's in danger, and about the law breaking.
[29:34.710 --> 29:37.050]  And I think that sort of sets a bad precedent in a lot of ways.
[29:37.190 --> 29:43.210]  And you have this other case out of Quebec, which I think we've, we've seen things like this before, but they're gonna become more and more common, I believe.
[29:43.750 --> 29:54.750]  The story of Natalie Blanchard, Blanchard, who lives in Granby, Quebec, says she's suffering from severe depression that's made it impossible for her to work full-time for the past 18 months.
[29:55.510 --> 30:05.050]  Well, her sick leave payments were cut after insurance giant Manulife obtained profile pictures on Facebook showing her at bars, whooping it up during her birthday, and on a beach holiday.
[30:05.750 --> 30:11.530]  Blanchard says her doctor had advised her to have some fun, is now going to court to have her benefits reinstated.
[30:13.210 --> 30:18.490]  Now, basically, the question here is, are such things private?
[30:18.590 --> 30:28.450]  I imagine, you know, Facebook, you can make it private, but still, even if you do make things private, there are ways that somebody could become your friend and get the information, or you can get the information from somebody who is their friend.
[30:28.510 --> 30:32.110]  And I'm not sure if that would stand up in court, if that would be legal for them to do this.
[30:33.150 --> 30:37.990]  But what people have to realize, if you post things online, it becomes part of who you are.
[30:37.990 --> 30:38.010]  Sure.
[30:38.830 --> 30:41.810]  And this is raising all kinds of privacy and legal questions.
[30:42.470 --> 30:42.650]  Manul?
[30:42.850 --> 30:43.030]  Yes.
[30:44.270 --> 30:58.930]  Insurance companies routinely employ legions of private investigators to try to knock down benefits and claims from people that are claiming a disability for this and that, some of which are illegitimate.
[30:59.330 --> 31:01.590]  Some people do try to milk the insurance companies.
[31:01.710 --> 31:02.430]  I don't think most do.
[31:02.430 --> 31:13.950]  But in any case, so these private investigators, you know, for years have been hired to go around with with camcorders and videotape people, you know, like going to play golf when they're supposed to be crippled, that kind of stuff.
[31:14.430 --> 31:20.430]  And I think that's just moving on to a new, uh, uh, new mediums now with, uh, Facebook and that sort of thing.
[31:20.550 --> 31:30.970]  I'm sure that some investigator for the insurance company, uh, tried to get this, this woman's information, friended her or whatever, and, uh, and then, uh, uh, sold it to the insurance company.
[31:31.110 --> 31:43.270]  So I imagine anything you get out there is going to, if you're filing a false insurance claim, that would be a really bad idea to post anything that would, that would, that would counter your claim on, on Facebook or anywhere else online.
[31:43.950 --> 31:44.690]  Yeah, absolutely.
[31:44.990 --> 31:45.430]  Go ahead, Ness.
[31:45.610 --> 31:49.330]  Yeah, it's, uh, it just reminds me a lot of Steve Rombaum's talk at the last HOPE conference.
[31:49.330 --> 32:02.350]  And, um, if you haven't seen that, it is well worth, um, you know, buying the DVD or going and downloading it, um, the, the audio track, because, uh, it's just one of the more informatively scary talks I've heard on privacy online.
[32:02.470 --> 32:02.590]  Yeah.
[32:02.650 --> 32:03.990]  And Steve was recently on CNN too.
[32:04.210 --> 32:08.030]  So, uh, go to their website and, and type in his name, R-E-M-B-A-M.
[32:08.130 --> 32:10.250]  And, uh, I'm sure you'll see all kinds of interesting things.
[32:10.350 --> 32:13.630]  And of course, I'm sure Steve will be talking at the next HOPE in July.
[32:13.790 --> 32:15.570]  We'll have more information on that as it comes in.
[32:15.690 --> 32:20.130]  We'll be taking, uh, phone calls, 212-209-2900 in just a couple of minutes.
[32:20.270 --> 32:22.430]  I'd like to read some, uh, listener mail.
[32:22.630 --> 32:26.010]  And of course, you're welcome to email us, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[32:26.210 --> 32:28.110]  This is from our friend Stuart over in Tokyo.
[32:28.510 --> 32:35.250]  Uh, dear Emanuel, your discussion about recovering data from old word processor formats reminded me of a story that I read back in 2000.
[32:35.750 --> 32:36.850]  And this is fascinating.
[32:36.970 --> 32:45.790]  The results of an archaeological survey of a Bronze Age site in the UK between 1991 and 1996 were stored on 220 floppy disks.
[32:46.130 --> 32:52.490]  When the data was accessed in the year 2000, they found that 5% of the disks were unreadable.
[32:52.930 --> 32:59.290]  Also, the MSTRED computer and its software they were created on had long become obsolete and the data difficult to retrieve.
[32:59.830 --> 33:05.110]  The leader of the recovery effort commented, the only secure answer to data conservation would seem to be the internet.
[33:05.350 --> 33:07.230]  Servers can go down or we'll need upgrading.
[33:07.410 --> 33:09.870]  But in theory, information on the internet will last forever.
[33:10.190 --> 33:15.090]  At the time, I did some detective work, looked him up, and mailed him to say that the internet itself was not the answer.
[33:15.430 --> 33:20.570]  Multiple distributed backups were required, but his reply didn't indicate that he understood this.
[33:20.570 --> 33:27.090]  The ironic thing is, the archaeological digs are destructive, and if the information is lost, it's lost forever.
[33:27.330 --> 33:32.090]  If they had left the site undisturbed, the information would still be in the ground as it has been for thousands of years.
[33:32.290 --> 33:35.210]  Once it was stored on floppies, the clock was counting down.
[33:35.630 --> 33:37.830]  So yeah, very interesting point there.
[33:37.950 --> 33:43.210]  Also, a PS here, I listened to the show live for the first time this week by clicking on the stream link on my iPhone.
[33:43.450 --> 33:45.690]  The show coincides with my commute to Tokyo.
[33:46.210 --> 33:46.610]  Wow.
[33:46.930 --> 33:47.390]  Hi, Stuart.
[33:47.590 --> 33:50.110]  Drive carefully while you're driving to Tokyo right now as you listen to us.
[33:52.170 --> 33:54.270]  I thought I couldn't listen to the internet stream.
[33:55.050 --> 34:01.730]  Voltaire's tweet, thank you, Voltaire, for tweeting, that the show was starting, made me wonder if the iPhone could play the stream, and it could.
[34:01.930 --> 34:04.710]  The only problem is, it fades out during the tunnels.
[34:05.850 --> 34:06.410]  All right.
[34:06.530 --> 34:07.710]  Well, let's work on that next.
[34:07.810 --> 34:12.770]  But wow, that's amazing to think that there's people driving to Tokyo right now listening to us live.
[34:13.310 --> 34:14.210]  That's incredible.
[34:14.410 --> 34:15.470]  But I can beat that.
[34:15.630 --> 34:16.230]  I can beat that.
[34:16.530 --> 34:17.770]  Somebody else wrote to us.
[34:19.190 --> 34:21.070]  And great show, guys.
[34:21.210 --> 34:21.590]  I love it.
[34:21.610 --> 34:23.810]  I listen to other podcasts too, but yours are the best.
[34:24.110 --> 34:26.150]  I am not able to listen to your show live.
[34:26.290 --> 34:26.830]  Okay, fine.
[34:26.970 --> 34:31.610]  But I download them and listen to them as I am driving up and down in Namibia.
[34:32.030 --> 34:32.970]  Yeah, Namibia.
[34:33.130 --> 34:35.470]  I wonder how many Namibians are listening to your show.
[34:35.610 --> 34:35.970]  37.
[34:35.970 --> 34:36.090]  37.
[34:37.590 --> 34:39.390]  Unless you have access to the data.
[34:39.630 --> 34:40.550]  There's no way you would know that.
[34:40.790 --> 34:44.750]  Over here, the government is also trying to play big brother by tapping emails, cell phones, etc.
[34:45.210 --> 34:48.710]  It's most probably the ruling party just wanting to listen to their opposition.
[34:49.450 --> 34:52.010]  It's a pity I could not attend hope maybe one day in Europe.
[34:52.530 --> 34:53.210]  That'd be great.
[34:53.410 --> 34:56.750]  Make it to the CCC Congress coming up in December.
[34:57.310 --> 35:02.310]  Over here, every second jerk, I can't say the word you said, is cloning credit cards.
[35:02.310 --> 35:06.910]  I feel sorry for the tourists visiting South Africa next year for the FIFA World Cup.
[35:07.330 --> 35:10.430]  Thanks, Jaxo, for sending in that letter.
[35:10.650 --> 35:12.610]  Do you have the link to the website he mentioned?
[35:13.090 --> 35:17.310]  Well, I have a story here about what the spy bill means for you.
[35:17.450 --> 35:25.950]  The interception clause inserted in the communications bill, which was tabled in the National Assembly on Wednesday, holds far-reaching implications for every single Namibian.
[35:26.070 --> 35:29.830]  All your telephone, email, and cell phone text messages can be intercepted.
[35:30.010 --> 35:34.150]  It may also have implications for electronic banking and online credit card transaction.
[35:34.670 --> 35:41.950]  This bill stipulates that providers of telecommunication services must ensure that they have information on all their customers.
[35:42.110 --> 35:56.250]  All information so gathered must be forwarded to the requesting party, so this information must be sufficient to determine which telephone number or other identification has been issued to a specific customer to make it possible to intercept the telecommunications of that customer.
[35:56.450 --> 36:02.790]  The duty placed on telecommunications providers will be enforced as if such duty were a license condition.
[36:03.010 --> 36:08.750]  The bill says the interception centers are necessary to the combating of crime and national security.
[36:09.090 --> 36:13.270]  The centers will be staffed by members of the Namibia Central Intelligence Service.
[36:13.370 --> 36:14.190]  It sounds very familiar.
[36:14.370 --> 36:14.770]  It really does.
[36:14.910 --> 36:16.570]  Dear Namibia, you're doing it wrong.
[36:17.310 --> 36:17.630]  Yeah?
[36:17.910 --> 36:19.450]  Democracy, you're doing it wrong.
[36:19.630 --> 36:21.450]  Well, I don't know if we can teach them very much.
[36:21.450 --> 36:25.290]  Yeah, I think we're showing them the way in many ways here.
[36:26.390 --> 36:31.590]  Okay, continuing with a couple more letters, and then we'll take phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[36:32.670 --> 36:39.170]  Okay, this is something, actually, I want to have to load a browser to do this, and that might take a moment for the computer to fire up here.
[36:39.910 --> 36:42.170]  But I'll get back to that in a second.
[36:44.310 --> 36:47.490]  Dear Manuel, I'm listening to the November 18th show.
[36:47.490 --> 36:52.590]  I heard you wonder how Verizon knew your Comcast phone service was up for renewal.
[36:53.350 --> 36:56.690]  Is your Comcast phone number... Well, first, I don't have a Comcast.
[36:56.850 --> 36:59.110]  It was CableVision, I think, in this particular case.
[36:59.270 --> 37:03.250]  But is your CableVision phone number a number that you used to have with Verizon?
[37:03.250 --> 37:07.050]  If so, then they know when you transfer the number away from them.
[37:07.130 --> 37:10.350]  Thereby, Verizon knows to call you around that same time every year.
[37:10.430 --> 37:11.270]  So, yes.
[37:11.490 --> 37:12.190]  Yes, absolutely.
[37:12.190 --> 37:14.550]  Absolutely, absolutely right there.
[37:14.730 --> 37:15.550]  They did know.
[37:16.530 --> 37:22.650]  And that's why they're pestering me saying, come back to us as your CableVision period is ending.
[37:22.910 --> 37:24.670]  Okay, now I've got the browser fired up.
[37:24.790 --> 37:28.770]  I'm going to type in this URL here that a listener sent in to us.
[37:29.390 --> 37:39.610]  They say, Max Cohen writes to us and says, this is perfect for those sign-up sites that want everything about you.
[37:40.230 --> 37:43.090]  It's called FakenameGenerator.com.
[37:43.110 --> 37:51.370]  What we're going to do, folks, what we're going to do tonight, and this is for the benefit of those people who actually came to the show tonight, we're going to come up with new identities for us.
[37:52.010 --> 37:56.210]  And yeah, and everybody who didn't show up is going to have old identities.
[37:57.050 --> 37:58.650]  And yeah, here we go.
[38:00.110 --> 38:00.670]  Let's see.
[38:01.730 --> 38:06.670]  Okay, so what we're going to do... That did not work, because I typed it wrong.
[38:06.850 --> 38:07.410]  Okay, sorry.
[38:08.210 --> 38:08.790]  I have to...
[38:09.670 --> 38:12.910]  Barney, why don't you fill the time with something enlightening to say while I typed it?
[38:13.050 --> 38:13.210]  Yes.
[38:13.370 --> 38:19.890]  I wanted to thank Stuart for writing into us about that archaeology story, because it's so true.
[38:20.030 --> 38:30.550]  It's what we were saying last week, that the mediums that we're putting our cultural heritage and historical information onto, that media doesn't last.
[38:30.930 --> 38:33.370]  A DVD might last 10 years if you're lucky.
[38:35.010 --> 38:35.650]  Go ahead.
[38:35.810 --> 38:51.490]  I think what we need is an international standards organization or something like it to create a standard of preservation, whether it's like seeing the number of incremental backups they have to have and how widely distributed they should be in what format.
[38:51.670 --> 38:57.570]  But we need to have a special, maybe a special UN panel on digital archaeology or something like that.
[38:57.590 --> 39:03.690]  No, I think if there's any librarians listening, they should call in with that, because I would bet you anything there are some standards about things like that.
[39:03.750 --> 39:07.430]  Well, we have the Internet Archives, and they'd be a great guest for the next hope.
[39:07.590 --> 39:12.810]  We've got the random name generator, fake name generator loaded up.
[39:12.910 --> 39:15.810]  Now, Bernie, how about, you can be first.
[39:15.970 --> 39:17.270]  Now, you have three choices here.
[39:18.130 --> 39:21.930]  Your gender, your name set, and your country.
[39:22.090 --> 39:25.790]  Okay, so basically, gender, I'm going to put what I know to be the truth.
[39:26.470 --> 39:27.550]  Well, how do you know that for sure?
[39:27.630 --> 39:28.610]  Well, I'm just going to say I'm a guy.
[39:28.850 --> 39:30.170]  Yeah, I'm going to go with that assumption.
[39:30.910 --> 39:35.630]  Name set, let's say American just to make things, I mean, you could be Arabic, Chinese, Danish, but you know, why?
[39:35.950 --> 39:38.030]  Why make things even more confusing?
[39:38.270 --> 39:41.030]  And can we say your country is the United States because that is where you live?
[39:41.590 --> 39:45.130]  Well, why don't we make me Canadian because then maybe I can get into Canada more easily.
[39:45.290 --> 39:45.790]  Do you want to do that?
[39:45.910 --> 39:46.210]  All right.
[39:46.350 --> 39:46.590]  All right.
[39:46.710 --> 39:48.230]  In your case, we'll make an exception.
[39:48.290 --> 39:54.930]  But I really think the rest of us should be American because it makes things more, I guess, easier to figure out.
[39:54.970 --> 39:56.730]  Okay, I'm about to generate your ID, Bernie.
[39:56.810 --> 39:57.570]  So are you ready for this?
[39:57.890 --> 39:58.190]  Okay.
[39:58.390 --> 39:59.750]  This will be your name from now on.
[39:59.850 --> 40:01.830]  And also, your address will also be included.
[40:02.130 --> 40:03.870]  All right, so get ready.
[40:04.930 --> 40:05.730]  Okay, here we go.
[40:07.310 --> 40:09.770]  You are now known as Gerald V.
[40:10.070 --> 40:10.430]  Schweitzer.
[40:10.670 --> 40:11.810]  Now, let me spell that for you.
[40:11.930 --> 40:15.310]  Gerald is spelled J-E-R-R-E-L-L and V.
[40:15.710 --> 40:18.990]  Schweitzer, S-C-H-W-E-I-T-Z-E-R.
[40:19.410 --> 40:21.390]  S-C-H-W-E-I-T-Z-E-R.
[40:21.990 --> 40:25.250]  If I'm going to have a fake name, I would rather it be one that can spell easily.
[40:25.430 --> 40:27.870]  I'm sorry, Bernie, but you're going to have to learn how to spell this.
[40:27.950 --> 40:29.710]  This is your name from now on, Gerald Schweitzer.
[40:30.070 --> 40:33.030]  And your address is 2-1-8-6 Adelaide Street.
[40:33.210 --> 40:36.350]  A-D-E-L-A-I-D-E Street, Toronto, Ontario.
[40:36.610 --> 40:40.830]  Zip code M5H1P6.
[40:41.190 --> 40:42.650]  All right, you got all that, Gerald?
[40:42.750 --> 40:42.910]  Okay.
[40:43.390 --> 40:43.910]  You sure now?
[40:44.890 --> 40:45.470]  I got it.
[40:45.590 --> 40:45.590]  Okay.
[40:45.610 --> 40:45.930]  All right.
[40:46.770 --> 40:47.670]  Who wants to go next?
[40:47.830 --> 40:48.270]  Oh, me, me.
[40:48.390 --> 40:48.750]  All right.
[40:49.110 --> 40:49.590]  Dot Rhett.
[40:49.750 --> 40:50.450]  Dot Rhett is next.
[40:50.550 --> 40:51.730]  Yeah, but I want Lichtenstein.
[40:52.050 --> 40:52.530]  No, listen.
[40:52.630 --> 40:55.370]  You see, this is why I was reluctant to go with the Canadian thing.
[40:55.490 --> 41:00.170]  This is why I was looking to go... No, it's... You're going to be American because that's where you live.
[41:00.810 --> 41:01.270]  All right?
[41:01.650 --> 41:03.150]  What if I go to Lichtenstein tomorrow?
[41:03.390 --> 41:04.530]  Yeah, well, you might have to.
[41:04.970 --> 41:07.210]  The country is going to be the United States.
[41:07.690 --> 41:09.050]  Hang on, I've got to scroll all the way down.
[41:09.130 --> 41:13.010]  First of all, there's only a certain number of countries they have, and Lichtenstein is not on there.
[41:13.150 --> 41:14.030]  All right, all right, fine.
[41:14.330 --> 41:14.890]  Germany, then.
[41:15.050 --> 41:16.130]  No, you're American.
[41:16.390 --> 41:17.350]  You've never even been to Germany.
[41:17.810 --> 41:17.950]  All right, Japan.
[41:18.350 --> 41:18.590]  Okay.
[41:19.350 --> 41:20.990]  You're male, American, United States.
[41:21.130 --> 41:22.850]  This is your new name, Dot Rhett.
[41:22.910 --> 41:24.410]  Your new name is Don D.
[41:24.830 --> 41:25.110]  Moore.
[41:25.750 --> 41:26.110]  What?
[41:26.590 --> 41:27.410]  Nice and simple.
[41:27.510 --> 41:28.730]  You won't have any trouble spelling that.
[41:29.230 --> 41:29.850]  Don D.
[41:30.050 --> 41:30.130]  Moore.
[41:30.230 --> 41:30.790]  Not Don D.
[41:30.910 --> 41:32.550]  Don, initial D, Moore.
[41:32.690 --> 41:33.850]  Well, there's a couple ways to spell Moore.
[41:33.990 --> 41:34.570]  Well, okay.
[41:34.730 --> 41:35.570]  M-O-O-R-E.
[41:35.910 --> 41:38.650]  And your address is 1562 Carriage Court.
[41:39.170 --> 41:41.450]  That's in El Centro, California.
[41:41.670 --> 41:42.510]  C-E-N-T-R-O.
[41:42.630 --> 41:44.590]  El Centro, California, 92243.
[41:44.990 --> 41:45.250]  All right?
[41:45.330 --> 41:46.730]  Maybe you want to head home.
[41:47.410 --> 41:47.950]  All right.
[41:49.730 --> 41:50.490]  Jim, hold on.
[41:50.550 --> 41:51.370]  We got you next.
[41:52.130 --> 41:52.730]  Oh, yes.
[41:52.730 --> 41:56.410]  Jim, you're a male, American, United States too, right?
[41:56.670 --> 41:57.690]  Let's make it nice and simple.
[41:57.850 --> 41:57.990]  Okay.
[41:58.610 --> 41:59.850]  And let's see who you are now.
[41:59.990 --> 42:00.830]  You're Jerry Farrington.
[42:00.970 --> 42:01.490]  Jerry J.
[42:01.990 --> 42:08.050]  Farrington, 3106 Bailey Drive in Blairstown, Iowa, 52209.
[42:08.750 --> 42:09.090]  Huh?
[42:09.690 --> 42:10.550]  There you go, Jerry.
[42:11.770 --> 42:13.050]  We got to write all these down.
[42:13.230 --> 42:13.490]  All right.
[42:14.050 --> 42:14.750]  Voltaire, you're next.
[42:14.750 --> 42:17.010]  I'm English, I'm a two-spirit, and I'm an American.
[42:17.350 --> 42:18.210]  Oh, now wait a minute.
[42:18.530 --> 42:18.650]  What?
[42:19.210 --> 42:20.710]  Just put his gender on random.
[42:20.890 --> 42:21.810]  That'll be a two-spirit thing.
[42:22.050 --> 42:22.910]  You want to be random?
[42:23.070 --> 42:23.190]  Okay.
[42:23.370 --> 42:23.830]  You can be random.
[42:24.010 --> 42:24.130]  Two-spirit.
[42:24.490 --> 42:24.790]  All right.
[42:24.850 --> 42:25.170]  Hold on.
[42:25.230 --> 42:25.510]  Hold on.
[42:25.550 --> 42:26.470]  We're going to make you random.
[42:26.490 --> 42:27.550]  If I can figure out how to do that.
[42:27.610 --> 42:27.990]  There we go.
[42:29.670 --> 42:30.950]  It's not taking for some reason.
[42:31.330 --> 42:32.430]  Are these real addresses?
[42:32.610 --> 42:33.350]  Can you look these up?
[42:33.350 --> 42:37.150]  You know, when you go to your newly defined house, you can find out.
[42:37.830 --> 42:38.150]  Okay.
[42:38.410 --> 42:40.410]  Your name set is going to be American, right?
[42:40.430 --> 42:41.890]  Or did you want it to be England-Wales?
[42:42.130 --> 42:42.710]  England-Wales.
[42:42.750 --> 42:43.310]  England-Wales.
[42:43.410 --> 42:43.670]  All right.
[42:43.750 --> 42:44.750]  We'll make it England-Wales.
[42:45.310 --> 42:46.290]  And your country?
[42:47.590 --> 42:48.630]  What do you want your country to be?
[42:49.230 --> 42:49.550]  Mexico.
[42:50.210 --> 42:50.530]  Mexico?
[42:50.790 --> 42:51.090]  Yes, please.
[42:52.190 --> 42:53.350]  Oh, he gets a different country, huh?
[42:53.350 --> 42:55.590]  No, first of all, Mexico's not on the list.
[42:56.370 --> 42:57.510]  Yeah, nobody's ever heard of that.
[42:57.550 --> 42:57.790]  Yeah.
[42:57.970 --> 42:58.570]  I'm sorry.
[42:59.150 --> 42:59.530]  All right.
[42:59.590 --> 43:00.210]  England-Wales, then.
[43:00.210 --> 43:01.870]  Uh, well, you can be United Kingdom.
[43:01.990 --> 43:02.610]  Is that what you want to be?
[43:02.950 --> 43:03.050]  Yeah.
[43:03.130 --> 43:03.410]  All right.
[43:03.670 --> 43:04.230]  Northern Ireland.
[43:04.630 --> 43:07.690]  Uh, it's not, well, that's part of the United Kingdom, and it's not listed that way.
[43:07.730 --> 43:07.930]  Okay.
[43:08.530 --> 43:12.990]  Your new name is going to be, uh, Samantha S.
[43:13.150 --> 43:13.510]  Harrison.
[43:15.290 --> 43:16.270]  70 High Street.
[43:16.390 --> 43:17.950]  What's interesting here is there's no city listed.
[43:17.950 --> 43:21.230]  It just says TN213BM.
[43:22.170 --> 43:30.150]  That's, uh, you don't have a country or a city, but I guess you got what you deserve for, uh, uh, oh, actually it says Three Cubs Corner.
[43:30.330 --> 43:31.110]  I don't even know what that means.
[43:31.710 --> 43:34.730]  I'm not sure if that's supposed to be the country or the, uh, well, no, it's United Kingdom.
[43:34.870 --> 43:35.690]  Three Cubs Corner.
[43:35.830 --> 43:38.790]  If anyone can figure out what Three Cubs Corner is, I'd sure like to know.
[43:39.070 --> 43:40.070]  All right, Gus, your turn.
[43:40.210 --> 43:43.490]  Uh, put my gender on random, and I, I, I, I like the Dutch name set.
[43:43.530 --> 43:44.590]  I think that sounds pretty good.
[43:44.710 --> 43:47.210]  Probably will involve some J's that are pronounced like Y or something.
[43:47.210 --> 43:47.470]  Okay, well, let's see.
[43:47.510 --> 43:48.430]  We do have Dutch there.
[43:48.590 --> 43:50.150]  And, um, what's your country?
[43:50.150 --> 43:52.410]  Uh, I, surprise me.
[43:53.230 --> 43:54.530]  Um, let's see.
[43:54.630 --> 43:55.650]  Well, how can I surprise you?
[43:55.950 --> 44:00.890]  Um, let's make it, um, oh, there we go.
[44:01.470 --> 44:03.850]  Dutch country, Iceland.
[44:04.370 --> 44:04.710]  Excellent.
[44:05.170 --> 44:09.650]  Uh, and your name is Erin, E-R-A-N, Stegenga.
[44:09.850 --> 44:11.870]  That's S-T-E-G-E-N-G-A.
[44:12.110 --> 44:15.330]  And, oh boy, uh, Austval Schalte 20.
[44:15.550 --> 44:17.390]  That's A-U-S-T-V-A.
[44:17.710 --> 44:20.290]  Um, um, I'm not sure what that, that character is.
[44:20.590 --> 44:21.730]  It's one of those weird characters.
[44:21.770 --> 44:26.270]  And S-H-O-L-T-I 20, 8-5-1-H-E-L-A.
[44:27.010 --> 44:28.450]  As in, this is a hell of a name.
[44:29.210 --> 44:31.290]  Um, and, uh, is there a city after that?
[44:32.450 --> 44:33.750]  Uh, it's not responding.
[44:33.950 --> 44:34.050]  It might be Hela.
[44:34.190 --> 44:34.910]  No, there is no city after that.
[44:34.910 --> 44:36.010]  It might be the city of Iceland.
[44:36.070 --> 44:36.490]  So there we go.
[44:36.870 --> 44:41.690]  So, so we need to, we don't know whether this checks, whether this actually has, you know, valid street address.
[44:41.690 --> 44:43.950]  Well, I think we're going to know now after we've announced them to everybody.
[44:44.090 --> 44:44.410]  Yeah.
[44:44.650 --> 44:47.810]  This is a fascinating application, but is it really necessary?
[44:47.810 --> 44:56.570]  I mean, it's, well, it's necessary for those sites where you want to need to register a name and an address and you don't want to try and think of something yourself or give out, God forbid, your own information.
[44:56.990 --> 44:58.250]  I don't know about other people.
[44:58.410 --> 45:00.950]  I don't know about other people, but I usually found that pretty simple.
[45:01.110 --> 45:04.250]  John Doe at one, two, three dash four, five, some street.
[45:05.050 --> 45:05.750]  Yeah, maybe.
[45:05.990 --> 45:06.310]  Yeah.
[45:06.410 --> 45:07.610]  Maybe they're, they're, they're onto that.
[45:07.950 --> 45:08.270]  Maybe.
[45:08.530 --> 45:08.730]  All right.
[45:08.830 --> 45:10.050]  It's time to take some phone calls.
[45:10.170 --> 45:12.150]  212-209-2900.
[45:13.730 --> 45:14.950]  Did they all go away at the same time?
[45:15.070 --> 45:19.330]  There were like five calls when I started saying that and now there were none and they all moved over someplace.
[45:19.770 --> 45:20.550]  Uh, please call again.
[45:20.690 --> 45:22.170]  212-209-2900.
[45:22.430 --> 45:27.250]  Uh, we'll take your calls and with your questions and statements and stories and things like that.
[45:27.350 --> 45:27.630]  And here's one.
[45:27.690 --> 45:27.970]  Good evening.
[45:28.090 --> 45:28.950]  You're on off the hook.
[45:29.310 --> 45:34.050]  Hi, I have a comment and a few different questions.
[45:34.490 --> 45:50.650]  Uh, when OJ Simpson was being chased, all of the television channels showed that chase and I thought it was a movie, new movie version of Fahrenheit 451 until I switched to another channel and it was still going on.
[45:51.030 --> 45:52.650]  All of the different channels.
[45:53.170 --> 45:53.430]  Uh-huh.
[45:53.990 --> 45:58.410]  Does anyone know how long CDs last?
[45:59.350 --> 46:01.190]  Wow, that's really completely unrelated.
[46:01.510 --> 46:03.470]  Um, how long do CDs last?
[46:03.630 --> 46:07.290]  Well, um, you know, it's, it depends, uh, depends on a lot of things.
[46:07.390 --> 46:08.690]  Depends on the commercial, a homemade.
[46:08.830 --> 46:09.670]  Bernie, do you know the answer?
[46:09.910 --> 46:12.590]  It really depends on the quality of the CD.
[46:12.790 --> 46:23.310]  If you're talking about a commercially produced CD, um, that will probably last 10 or 20 years because those are, those are pressed as opposed to using a laser with a very thin layer of chemicals on it.
[46:23.470 --> 46:31.130]  But if you just buy a recordable CD and record stuff on there, the really cheap ones may only last five years before the bits start deteriorating.
[46:31.290 --> 46:32.710]  You might get 10 years out of it.
[46:32.850 --> 46:41.290]  We, we, we really haven't been around long enough with these CDs to see a lot of them fall apart yet, but pretty soon you're going to, it's starting to happen now.
[46:41.590 --> 46:42.290]  But, but make a copy.
[46:42.390 --> 46:43.650]  Make a copy of whatever it is you have.
[46:43.750 --> 46:45.010]  That's, that's always an important thing to do.
[46:45.370 --> 46:45.490]  Uh-huh.
[46:45.510 --> 46:46.330]  Make backups.
[46:46.790 --> 46:47.710]  Volta, you have something on this?
[46:47.810 --> 46:59.270]  Um, this isn't really, um, for consumers, but there's a recent development about, um, uh, CD and DVDs, uh, burn technology that lets, that will last like a couple hundred years.
[46:59.490 --> 47:01.930]  And, um, that's nothing that... A couple hundred years?
[47:02.090 --> 47:06.330]  It's nothing that consumers will be able to afford, but I think that going forward... How do you guarantee something like that?
[47:06.430 --> 47:07.570]  How do you guarantee something like that?
[47:07.750 --> 47:17.950]  Where... You can like, um, increase the, um, the, like, extremity of the environment to make it like, um, more than what it currently is.
[47:18.070 --> 47:18.310]  Uh-huh.
[47:18.710 --> 47:30.150]  But I think that going forward, it's just an example of, uh, what the usefulness that a, um, standards could have, uh, and the showing that it is possible to have archaeology with, um, digital information.
[47:30.410 --> 47:30.730]  Okay.
[47:30.810 --> 47:31.690]  Any other questions, caller?
[47:31.770 --> 47:32.830]  Yes, I, I do.
[47:33.210 --> 47:33.870]  A couple others.
[47:34.130 --> 47:40.670]  One, I thought I heard something earlier in the week about a country that computer systems crashed.
[47:40.910 --> 47:42.730]  Do you know anything about that, or...?
[47:42.730 --> 47:44.330]  Uh, well, this happens a lot.
[47:44.910 --> 47:47.650]  I don't know of any particular country where the computer systems crashed.
[47:47.850 --> 47:49.310]  There's usually something going on.
[47:49.590 --> 47:52.250]  Okay, well... The United States had, uh, the United States had a router.
[47:52.470 --> 48:03.010]  The Federal Aviation Administration had a router fail that, uh, allowed... It was a router that, that handled the traffic for, um, uh, airlines filing, uh, filing new flight, flight plans.
[48:03.230 --> 48:06.430]  So there could be no new flights for several hours, uh, the other day.
[48:06.490 --> 48:07.150]  Yeah, that was a lot of fun.
[48:07.730 --> 48:08.030]  Okay.
[48:08.390 --> 48:10.770]  One last question, and I'll get off the line.
[48:10.810 --> 48:11.830]  Yes, we have a full switchboard now.
[48:12.070 --> 48:21.170]  Yes, I, I heard, I saw some commercial talking about, uh, getting a new Nokia notebook for $29.99.
[48:21.370 --> 48:22.210]  Is that a scam?
[48:22.450 --> 48:26.650]  Would they put a scam like that on, uh, television commercials?
[48:27.230 --> 48:28.030]  Yes and no.
[48:28.370 --> 48:33.550]  It's, uh, $29.99 after you sign up for, like, a two-year plan of, like, $30 a month.
[48:33.750 --> 48:42.050]  Yeah, you gotta, you gotta get a, um, uh, a VCR and freeze frame with a tiny print and get a magnifying glass and read that, and you'll probably see what Voltaire's referring to.
[48:42.270 --> 48:44.690]  All right, thanks, uh, thanks for your call, and thanks for all those interesting questions.
[48:44.810 --> 48:45.850]  Let's take another one.
[48:46.290 --> 48:46.870]  Good evening.
[48:47.010 --> 48:47.770]  You're on Off the Hook.
[48:49.710 --> 48:50.530]  Yes, it's you.
[48:50.610 --> 48:50.930]  Good evening.
[48:51.890 --> 48:52.910]  Okay, yeah, yeah.
[48:53.230 --> 48:58.370]  Um, I have a question about Verizon LG phones.
[48:58.370 --> 48:59.090]  Oh, boy.
[48:59.730 --> 49:01.890]  What is the operating system?
[49:02.330 --> 49:05.270]  The operating system for Verizon LG phones?
[49:05.710 --> 49:05.910]  Yeah.
[49:06.070 --> 49:07.550]  What, what model of LG?
[49:08.690 --> 49:12.090]  Uh, uh, 2008?
[49:13.270 --> 49:14.890]  That's when you got it, the year 2008.
[49:15.310 --> 49:15.690]  Right.
[49:16.290 --> 49:17.910]  Um... Sorry, I got it this year, actually.
[49:18.070 --> 49:18.250]  Bernie?
[49:18.450 --> 49:19.610]  Bernie, do you have something on that?
[49:19.770 --> 49:25.030]  LG makes, like, dozens of different model phones for different carriers, including Verizon.
[49:25.030 --> 49:36.750]  So, unless you're very specific about the model name and number, which is probably under the battery in the phone, we really couldn't tell you which operating system it, but it's probably some proprietary operating system.
[49:36.990 --> 49:45.990]  It's not one of the more open operating systems like, uh, um, the Android operating system that, uh, that Google has published and is being used by some, uh, Verizon phones.
[49:46.110 --> 49:48.790]  They just came out with a new phone, I think, called the, uh, the, uh, the Droid.
[49:49.030 --> 49:54.070]  And that's, uh, that uses the, uh, that's, that's, that's a phone made by, uh, let me say, Motorola.
[49:54.270 --> 49:54.410]  Motorola.
[49:54.930 --> 49:55.250]  Yeah.
[49:55.550 --> 49:56.990]  Everyone's walking around these things now.
[49:57.110 --> 49:58.310]  It's driving me crazy, you know?
[49:59.450 --> 49:59.710]  Right.
[50:00.010 --> 50:03.450]  Because they're all walking around, they're just staring at them constantly, and they're not conversing.
[50:03.570 --> 50:06.030]  And, you know, I just wonder, do I want to be drawn into that world?
[50:06.790 --> 50:08.630]  You know, I just want to make a phone call occasionally.
[50:08.690 --> 50:09.470]  You already got a cell phone.
[50:09.570 --> 50:10.570]  I have a cell phone, exactly.
[50:10.670 --> 50:11.670]  That's all I want is a cell phone.
[50:11.670 --> 50:12.570]  But you've already been sucked into that world.
[50:12.650 --> 50:18.630]  Well, I, yeah, but I'm not playing games on it, and I'm not, like, looking up my location as I walk and have my, my face down to the ground, you know?
[50:18.750 --> 50:19.790]  It's, I don't know.
[50:19.950 --> 50:20.250]  I don't know.
[50:20.370 --> 50:21.390]  So, don't download any games.
[50:21.530 --> 50:22.410]  Yeah, maybe I won't.
[50:22.530 --> 50:23.690]  Maybe I won't even get one of these things.
[50:23.830 --> 50:24.690]  Any other questions, caller?
[50:25.370 --> 50:26.730]  Uh, well, that's about it.
[50:26.850 --> 50:34.930]  But, um, I just saw, I see a lot of things online as far as different applications for, that are specific to phones.
[50:35.590 --> 50:46.270]  But, um, I don't, I was just wondering because, you know, some phones, there is a Palm operating system, or other phones, use a Windows operating system.
[50:46.570 --> 50:52.990]  But I just never, uh, thought about what kind of operating system my particular phone had.
[50:53.650 --> 50:59.230]  Yeah, well, you know, you can always plug in, uh, the exact model number, uh, into, uh, a certain, uh, Bing?
[50:59.710 --> 51:00.190]  Not Bing.
[51:00.270 --> 51:00.450]  Bing?
[51:00.770 --> 51:00.890]  No.
[51:01.030 --> 51:02.570]  I thought I was going to say Bing from now on, not Google.
[51:02.770 --> 51:03.130]  No.
[51:03.290 --> 51:03.290]  No.
[51:03.370 --> 51:03.570]  Really?
[51:03.610 --> 51:04.170]  I don't, no.
[51:04.430 --> 51:04.950]  Oh, okay.
[51:04.990 --> 51:07.890]  What about the, the note we got saying, do not ever say the G word again?
[51:08.190 --> 51:08.450]  Google.
[51:08.450 --> 51:08.550]  Google.
[51:08.630 --> 51:10.510]  Because the station got bought by, okay.
[51:10.990 --> 51:11.810]  All right, fine, fine.
[51:12.070 --> 51:18.790]  Well, uh, we'll put it into a search engine and type in operating system, somebody, somewhere, we'll figure this out and we'll have posted it.
[51:18.890 --> 51:19.250]  All right?
[51:19.570 --> 51:20.010]  All right.
[51:20.130 --> 51:20.470]  Thanks a lot.
[51:20.570 --> 51:21.470]  Thanks, uh, thanks for your call.
[51:21.850 --> 51:22.470]  And good evening.
[51:22.570 --> 51:23.130]  You're on Off the Hook.
[51:23.570 --> 51:23.930]  Hello.
[51:24.230 --> 51:24.930]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[51:25.010 --> 51:27.250]  I got two questions and I don't want to be offensive.
[51:27.530 --> 51:28.430]  No, go right ahead.
[51:28.610 --> 51:33.330]  The first question, what percentage of Americans have computers?
[51:33.750 --> 51:48.370]  And secondly, isn't it, that everything is, isn't it doesn't seem like everything that's geared towards advertisements, government, any kind of benefits represent some type of ageism where there are people who over the age of 65 who don't have computers.
[51:48.550 --> 51:55.870]  And I noticed even on these liberal radio shows that any prize or any free things, you always have to go to a website.
[51:56.150 --> 52:00.950]  My first question is what percentage of the population actually has computers?
[52:01.110 --> 52:03.350]  Because that is the hardest thing to find out.
[52:03.350 --> 52:05.470]  That's a good... That's a good question.
[52:05.870 --> 52:05.870]  That's a really good question.
[52:06.050 --> 52:06.710]  And it's a very...
[52:06.710 --> 52:07.250]  I found out yesterday.
[52:07.590 --> 52:07.910]  Yeah, go ahead.
[52:07.910 --> 52:17.710]  Yesterday, I was visiting a gym in Brooklyn who's in a facility that has a lot of people, some of whom have other disabilities.
[52:17.710 --> 52:21.890]  And I found out that there's no connectivity there.
[52:21.890 --> 52:26.430]  There's no internet access that's available for all the residents there.
[52:26.530 --> 52:28.610]  And a lot of elderly people there.
[52:28.790 --> 52:30.090]  I spoke with one of them.
[52:30.170 --> 52:32.510]  He would love to be able to get online.
[52:32.730 --> 52:37.210]  There was enthusiasm, but there was just no guidance steering him towards that.
[52:37.350 --> 52:38.730]  And the caller makes a great point.
[52:38.790 --> 52:48.250]  There's a lot of commercial, like a coupon or whatever, or like if you want more information about this, even public service announcements.
[52:48.370 --> 52:50.230]  If you want more information about this, log on to this website.
[52:50.350 --> 52:54.250]  Well, if you don't have a computer, you don't have internet access, you can't get that information anymore.
[52:54.250 --> 52:58.310]  But you know, even if you have a computer, I have some gene in me that just turns off to hype.
[52:58.450 --> 53:05.490]  And whenever something gets like crazily hyped and is the jargonies of the day, I just want to walk away from it and not have anything to do with it.
[53:05.490 --> 53:12.510]  And that's how I feel today with all the websites and ringtones and all these smartphones everywhere.
[53:12.990 --> 53:13.410]  I don't know.
[53:13.470 --> 53:15.470]  There's something about it that seems to be taking away from life itself.
[53:15.610 --> 53:22.490]  So, you know, you might look upon where you are as kind of a blessing because you're not being sucked into this black hole of stupidity.
[53:22.610 --> 53:23.970]  Hello, may I say one of my other things?
[53:25.010 --> 53:27.030]  I watch younger people.
[53:27.210 --> 53:31.370]  Thank God I lived in the 50s, 60s and 70s and had somewhat of a life.
[53:31.630 --> 53:34.810]  But the fact is that I watch younger people today.
[53:34.990 --> 53:38.790]  Some of them are making great money and they're so alienated from their feelings.
[53:38.930 --> 53:44.390]  And that has to affect how we're going to be representative in the future.
[53:44.510 --> 53:45.550]  It's not just young people, though.
[53:45.650 --> 53:46.490]  It's people of all ages.
[53:46.610 --> 53:47.770]  I think it's a cultural thing.
[53:47.770 --> 53:52.990]  And I pray that one day something comes along where we all just want to look at each other again.
[53:53.150 --> 53:53.470]  Mm-hmm.
[53:53.710 --> 53:54.790]  That's a good thought.
[53:54.950 --> 53:55.410]  That's a good thought.
[53:55.470 --> 53:55.950]  Thanks for your call.
[53:56.530 --> 53:57.050]  All right.
[53:57.430 --> 54:00.470]  I just found out, by the way, speaking of being alienated, that I live in Hawaii.
[54:00.990 --> 54:02.410]  My name is Christopher Garrett.
[54:03.530 --> 54:07.470]  I live on 1985 Aaron Smith Drive, and they spell Aaron, A-R-R-O-N.
[54:07.990 --> 54:09.730]  I'm in Cocoa Head, Hawaii.
[54:10.350 --> 54:11.810]  One of two states I've never been to.
[54:11.970 --> 54:12.730]  And that's kind of weird.
[54:13.530 --> 54:14.330]  So, yeah.
[54:14.570 --> 54:15.170]  Christopher Garrett.
[54:15.290 --> 54:15.590]  That's me.
[54:17.170 --> 54:18.690]  I'm as shocked as everybody else is.
[54:18.790 --> 54:19.450]  That's for sure.
[54:19.970 --> 54:20.450]  Good evening.
[54:20.650 --> 54:21.490]  You're on Off the Hook.
[54:22.310 --> 54:23.430]  Thank you for taking my call.
[54:23.550 --> 54:23.910]  No problem.
[54:23.970 --> 54:24.470]  What's on your mind?
[54:24.870 --> 54:25.990]  Oh, what's on my mind?
[54:26.030 --> 54:27.130]  You don't have time for that one.
[54:27.210 --> 54:27.530]  All right.
[54:27.830 --> 54:28.330]  Two things.
[54:28.490 --> 54:31.490]  One, good search as a search engine.
[54:32.690 --> 54:41.890]  It's a search engine that's used to raise funds for people who don't have capital who want to give to 501C3s.
[54:41.970 --> 54:43.390]  Why can't I turn off my radio?
[54:43.590 --> 54:44.250]  Oh, that's why.
[54:44.690 --> 54:45.510]  Pull the plug.
[54:45.810 --> 54:46.590]  Sorry about that.
[54:47.630 --> 54:52.950]  Just as a full-level confession, I worked for Verizon for 24 years.
[54:53.730 --> 54:54.510]  That's impossible.
[54:54.630 --> 54:55.270]  They haven't been around 24.
[54:55.330 --> 54:55.910]  I know what you mean.
[54:57.150 --> 54:58.790]  No, I retired in 2003.
[54:59.070 --> 55:16.390]  And what I was looking at is, especially getting people to understand what a powerful tool that good search could be to fund all the things that we talk about that are non-profit.
[55:18.870 --> 55:19.310]  Nothing?
[55:19.650 --> 55:20.070]  Okay.
[55:20.390 --> 55:21.370]  Can I go on to number two?
[55:21.450 --> 55:21.650]  Yeah, sure.
[55:21.690 --> 55:21.810]  Go ahead.
[55:21.890 --> 55:23.510]  That one laid right there.
[55:23.530 --> 55:24.270]  I didn't know that was a question.
[55:24.350 --> 55:25.190]  I thought you were making a statement.
[55:25.190 --> 55:26.070]  No, no, no.
[55:26.150 --> 55:30.170]  I wanted to know how I would go about getting... I mean, every time I get on the air, I talk about good search.
[55:30.310 --> 55:35.750]  Every time I talk to people who have 501C3s or churches or schools, I talk about good search.
[55:35.890 --> 55:42.310]  Because it wouldn't take that much to get... it would then expose people to even greater information.
[55:42.470 --> 55:43.170]  Are you familiar with...
[55:43.170 --> 55:44.210]  Voltaire has an answer for you.
[55:44.270 --> 55:44.390]  Go ahead.
[55:44.410 --> 55:46.110]  I've used good search in the past.
[55:46.110 --> 55:47.270]  I know people who still use it.
[55:47.450 --> 55:54.350]  My only issue with it is that when you have it, each good search is only linked to one non-profit.
[55:54.510 --> 55:58.630]  So each person would only be able to sponsor a maximum of one non-profit.
[55:58.930 --> 56:00.610]  And it's the same thing with...
[56:00.610 --> 56:09.950]  I'm not sure if you know about Amazon affiliate programs, but that's how a lot of websites will make money by having links to books and stuff like that.
[56:10.070 --> 56:12.810]  They'll make a certain percentage off of whatever they sell through Amazon.
[56:13.030 --> 56:18.290]  But that only... you can set your Amazon search to basically sponsor a certain website.
[56:18.490 --> 56:20.990]  But then only... you can only sponsor one organization.
[56:21.590 --> 56:26.270]  So like for me, I don't know... I'm conflicted about which group to sponsor.
[56:26.450 --> 56:27.490]  Sir, we're almost out of time.
[56:27.510 --> 56:28.430]  So make your last point quickly.
[56:28.510 --> 56:32.990]  With regard to good search, you can change your charity each and every time you search.
[56:33.190 --> 56:41.770]  The other thing is, could you talk about the validity of having or maintaining a landline service in the time of wireless telephones?
[56:41.990 --> 56:42.690]  Uh, well, I can.
[56:42.810 --> 56:54.650]  I'll say that it's definitely something that you can count on as always being there when cell towers go down or when power goes out or when you happen to live in a place that doesn't get good service, but mostly because it sounds better.
[56:54.970 --> 56:57.030]  Landlines just sound so much better than cell phones.
[56:57.090 --> 57:02.890]  And that's something I think a lot of people have either forgotten or have never known because they've grown up just with a cell phone attached to it.
[57:02.990 --> 57:04.670]  And Dot Ritt, what are you looking at on your cell phone?
[57:04.730 --> 57:07.110]  You've been staring at it now without blinking for 10 minutes.
[57:07.270 --> 57:09.310]  I am trying to answer that last year's question.
[57:09.430 --> 57:13.810]  That's a good question of how many people have internet access.
[57:13.990 --> 57:14.070]  Well, we're out of time.
[57:14.070 --> 57:22.890]  So far, the best I've been able to find is 40 to 750 out of every 10,000 people have internet access.
[57:23.290 --> 57:23.630]  What kind of answer?
[57:23.790 --> 57:26.090]  Does this include everybody who's ever lived on the planet?
[57:26.230 --> 57:27.650]  No, no, I'm talking about America only.
[57:27.810 --> 57:31.090]  I'm still, I haven't found a more definitive statistic yet.
[57:31.190 --> 57:33.610]  Well, that's, that's, I think it's a little bit flawed.
[57:33.610 --> 57:34.610]  Gus has something relatively.
[57:34.750 --> 57:35.690]  Okay, Gus, make quick.
[57:35.990 --> 57:42.210]  Yes, when I was doing some studies on this in about, I think, 2006, 75% had some sort of internet access at home.
[57:42.310 --> 57:43.270]  That was the national rate.
[57:43.410 --> 57:49.410]  And if you want to know more about some really good statistics about stuff like that, check the Pew Internet and American Life Study.
[57:49.530 --> 57:52.130]  That's P-E-W, laser beams, pew, pew, pew.
[57:53.470 --> 57:54.850]  That's going to do it for us tonight.
[57:55.090 --> 57:55.890]  Thanks for listening.
[57:56.110 --> 57:59.690]  Write to us, O-T-H, at 2600.com.
[57:59.750 --> 58:00.410]  We'll see you next week.
[58:13.680 --> 58:17.280]  I'm just too white and nerdy.
[58:17.480 --> 58:18.940]  Can't you see I'm white and nerdy?
[58:19.160 --> 58:20.620]  Look at me, I'm white and nerdy.
[58:20.620 --> 58:27.520]  I wanna roll with the gangsters, but so far they all think I'm too white and nerdy.
[58:27.660 --> 58:29.040]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[58:29.100 --> 58:30.720]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[58:30.980 --> 58:31.120]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[58:31.120 --> 58:32.540]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[58:32.620 --> 58:32.760]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[58:32.760 --> 58:33.640]  Really, really white and nerdy.
[58:33.640 --> 58:34.840]  First in my class there at MIT.
[58:35.060 --> 58:36.600]  Got skills, I'm a champion of D&D.
[58:36.700 --> 58:38.200]  MC Escher, that's my favorite MC.
[58:38.420 --> 58:39.960]  Keep your 40 out, just have an Earl Grey tee.
[58:40.120 --> 58:40.960]  My rims never spin.
[58:41.040 --> 58:43.280]  To the contrary, you'll find that they're quite stationary.
[58:43.700 --> 58:45.160]  All of my action figures are cherry.
[58:45.380 --> 58:46.700]  Stephen Hawking's in my library.
[58:46.880 --> 58:48.640]  My MySpace page is all totally pimped out.
[58:48.760 --> 58:50.200]  Got people begging for my top eight spaces.
[58:50.420 --> 58:51.920]  Yo, I know pie to a thousand places.
[58:52.100 --> 58:53.560]  Ain't got no grills, but I still wear braces.
[58:53.780 --> 58:55.420]  I order all of my sandwiches with mayonnaise.
[58:55.640 --> 58:57.200]  I'm a whiz and minesweeper, I can play for days.
[58:57.300 --> 58:58.880]  Once you see my sweet moves, you're gonna stay amazed.
[58:58.960 --> 59:00.560]  My thing is moving so fast, I'll set the place a blaze.
[59:00.600 --> 59:01.860]  There's no killer rap, I haven't run.
[59:02.140 --> 59:03.520]  At Pascal, well, I'm number one.
[59:03.640 --> 59:05.180]  Do vector calculus just for fun.
[59:05.260 --> 59:06.920]  I ain't got a gap, but I got a soldering gun.
[59:07.100 --> 59:08.720]  Happy Days is my favorite theme song.
[59:08.800 --> 59:10.400]  I can sure kick your butt in a game of ping pong.
[59:10.500 --> 59:12.100]  I'll ace any trivia quiz you bring on.
[59:12.180 --> 59:13.720]  I'm fluent in JavaScript as well as Klingon.
[59:13.800 --> 59:14.360]  It's RIC.
[59:14.640 --> 59:17.620]  You see me roll on my Segway.
[59:18.300 --> 59:21.200]  I know in my heart they think I'm white and nerdy.
[59:21.320 --> 59:22.720]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[59:22.920 --> 59:24.360]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[59:24.560 --> 59:26.080]  Can't you see I'm white and nerdy?
[59:26.280 --> 59:27.700]  Look at me, I'm white and nerdy.
[59:27.880 --> 59:31.060]  I like to roll with the gangsters.
[59:31.680 --> 59:33.620]  Although it's a parent, I'm too old.
[59:33.640 --> 59:36.160]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[59:36.200 --> 59:37.800]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[59:37.820 --> 59:37.820]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[59:38.060 --> 59:39.700]  I'm just too white and nerdy.
[59:39.760 --> 59:41.160]  How'd I get so white and nerdy?
[59:41.300 --> 59:44.000]  I've been browsing, inspecting, X-Men, comics, you know I collect them.
[59:44.080 --> 59:45.740]  The pens in my pocket, I must protect them.
[59:45.820 --> 59:47.820]  My ergonomic keyboard never leaves me bored.
[59:47.900 --> 59:49.520]  Shopping online for deals on some writable media.
[59:49.720 --> 59:50.580]  I edit Wikipedia.
[59:50.960 --> 59:52.160]  I memorize Holy Grail really well.
[59:52.220 --> 59:54.260]  I can recite it right now and have you R-O-T-F-L-O-L.
[59:54.340 --> 59:55.420]  I got a business doing websites.
[59:55.520 --> 59:55.720]  Websites.
[59:55.720 --> 59:57.360]  While friends need some code, who do they call?
[59:57.540 --> 59:59.100]  I do HTML for them all.
[59:59.240 --> 01:00:00.700]  Even made a homepage for my doll.
[01:00:00.900 --> 01:00:02.180]  Yo, I got myself a fanny pack.
[01:00:02.360 --> 01:00:03.800]  They were having a sale down at the Gap.
[01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:05.500]  Spend my nights with a roll-up bubble wrap.
[01:00:05.640 --> 01:00:07.960]  Pop, pop, hope no one sees me getting freaky.
[01:00:08.260 --> 01:00:11.180]  I'm nerdy, indie, extreme, and whiter than sour cream.
[01:00:11.520 --> 01:00:14.440]  I was in a V-club and Glee Club and even the chess team.
[01:00:14.540 --> 01:00:16.120]  Only question I ever thought was hard.
[01:00:16.200 --> 01:00:16.860]  What do I like, Kurt?
[01:00:16.980 --> 01:00:17.820]  Or do I like Picard?
[01:00:17.940 --> 01:00:19.820]  Spend every weekend at the Renaissance Fair.
[01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:21.080]  Got my name on my underwear.
[01:00:21.080 --> 01:00:23.100]  Where they see me strolling.
[01:00:23.460 --> 01:00:24.520]  They laughing.
[01:00:25.240 --> 01:00:26.720]  And rolling their eyes.
[01:00:26.840 --> 01:00:28.280]  Cause I'm so white and nerdy.
[01:00:28.420 --> 01:00:29.840]  Just because I'm white and nerdy.
[01:00:30.100 --> 01:00:31.520]  Just because I'm white and nerdy.
[01:00:31.740 --> 01:00:33.180]  All because I'm white and nerdy.
[01:00:33.340 --> 01:00:34.820]  Holy cow, I'm white and nerdy.
[01:00:34.980 --> 01:00:38.120]  I wanna bowl with the gangsters.
[01:00:38.720 --> 01:00:41.720]  But oh, well, it's obvious I'm white and nerdy.
[01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:43.260]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[01:00:43.340 --> 01:00:44.940]  Think I'm just too white and nerdy.
[01:00:45.160 --> 01:00:46.780]  I'm just too white and nerdy.
[01:00:46.860 --> 01:00:48.280]  Look at me, I'm white and nerdy.
[01:00:50.160 --> 01:00:53.660]  Oh, white and nerdy, not white and dirty.
[01:00:53.660 --> 01:01:03.220]  I was almost offended by that song, though that may not... That's because I stand up for the rights of the people here at WBAI.