[00:00.000 --> 00:10.620]  Join Stephen as he fills in for the vacationing Sally O'Brien and Deque Keone Siddiqui on Where We Live on Thursday, December 31st from 8 to 9 p.m.
[00:10.720 --> 00:23.020]  Our listeners are encouraged to spread the word to their loved ones as WBAI in New York and WAC Radio in Trinidad and Tobago will again be taking listener calls to send greetings to their loved ones at home and abroad.
[00:23.020 --> 00:26.680]  That's Thursday, December 31st from 8 to 9 p.m.
[00:26.800 --> 00:31.100]  For more information, please visit us at wbai.org.
[00:31.280 --> 00:32.560]  Happy New Year, everybody.
[00:39.040 --> 00:40.140]  Happy New Year, indeed.
[00:40.520 --> 00:42.360]  The time is just about 7 p.m.
[00:42.360 --> 00:45.020]  You're listening to 99.5 WBAI New York.
[00:45.260 --> 00:47.480]  Time for another edition of Off the Hook.
[01:48.970 --> 01:50.270]  And a very good evening to you.
[01:50.350 --> 01:51.430]  The show is Off the Hook.
[01:51.570 --> 01:52.010]  Rob T.
[01:52.130 --> 01:52.910]  Firefly here with you.
[01:53.050 --> 01:54.730]  I'm joined in the studio by Dot Rat.
[01:55.030 --> 01:55.430]  Hey, hello.
[01:56.270 --> 01:57.030]  And Jim.
[01:57.510 --> 01:57.890]  Hi.
[01:59.370 --> 02:00.150]  And Mike.
[02:00.370 --> 02:00.810]  Hi there.
[02:01.450 --> 02:03.990]  And on the phone, we have some friends.
[02:03.990 --> 02:04.810]  Who do we have on the phone?
[02:05.290 --> 02:06.330]  Well, we have Bernie S.
[02:06.590 --> 02:07.430]  in Philadelphia.
[02:08.270 --> 02:09.370]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:09.710 --> 02:12.750]  And we have Emmanuel, who's in Berlin, I think.
[02:13.230 --> 02:15.650]  Yes, greetings from snowy Berlin.
[02:17.210 --> 02:18.650]  So what are you doing in Berlin?
[02:19.170 --> 02:28.250]  Well, right now I'm recuperating from the Chaos Communication Congress, which just ended a couple of hours ago after four days.
[02:28.250 --> 02:30.050]  And this is the 26th.
[02:30.130 --> 02:32.790]  We call it 26C3, CCC number 26.
[02:33.810 --> 02:40.030]  And it basically brings people from all around the planet in the longest-running hacker conference.
[02:40.650 --> 02:42.370]  It's really an incredible scene.
[02:42.530 --> 02:48.270]  We have a bunch of people here that are going to talk about their impressions, their experiences.
[02:49.330 --> 02:55.790]  And I hope, I hope at the end of this show that we will have many more people who have vowed to come next year.
[02:55.790 --> 03:04.010]  It always takes place on December 27th, 28th, 29th, and 30th, depending, no matter what day of the week that is.
[03:04.130 --> 03:06.950]  Those are the dates that Congress always takes place here in Berlin.
[03:07.870 --> 03:10.110]  What were some of the highlights this year for you?
[03:10.630 --> 03:11.450]  Oh, gosh.
[03:11.810 --> 03:17.850]  Well, there are always interesting panels and discussions to see.
[03:17.850 --> 03:39.690]  I saw an interesting discussion about lost cosmonauts, where the people who were erased from history by the Soviets, cosmonauts whose radio transmissions were received by various people monitoring space frequencies, who never appeared in any kind of historical reference.
[03:39.690 --> 03:53.170]  And there's all kinds of theories being passed around as to what actually happened to them if people were literally lost in space, or if people were sent up as some kind of an experiment and never made it back down to Earth.
[03:53.710 --> 03:54.950]  Crazy things like that.
[03:55.710 --> 03:56.970]  That's one panel I saw.
[03:57.170 --> 04:01.010]  There are so many others that I'm sure people here would like to share as well.
[04:01.190 --> 04:15.230]  But mostly it's just meeting people, it's walking around, it's just seeing how things are done in a different culture and gaining some inspiration from that, seeing old friends, meeting new friends, that kind of thing.
[04:15.730 --> 04:16.370]  Emmanuel?
[04:16.850 --> 04:17.370]  Yes, Bernie.
[04:17.710 --> 04:46.130]  I was really surprised to see the American mainstream media all over one story that was announced at the Chaos Computer Club Congress this year, and that is the hacking of the GSM A5-1 encryption key, which was announced as a project at the HAL 2009 conference that we attended in the Netherlands this past summer.
[04:46.310 --> 04:59.310]  But apparently the collaborative effort succeeded, and the G2, as opposed to G3, GSM encryption has been cracked.
[05:01.670 --> 05:04.250]  Did you get a chance to see that talk, Emmanuel?
[05:04.550 --> 05:10.190]  I did not see that, but Bernie, are you saying that there was actually American media coverage of the Chaos Communication Congress?
[05:10.630 --> 05:11.030]  Absolutely.
[05:11.030 --> 05:16.850]  I heard it on a CBS radio affiliate, and I heard it on an NPR affiliate, and these aren't just casual mentions.
[05:16.850 --> 05:18.190]  They really went into a lot of detail.
[05:18.390 --> 05:20.910]  And it's in a lot of American newspapers as well.
[05:21.590 --> 05:22.910]  I was really surprised.
[05:22.910 --> 05:32.610]  A few of these articles and stories actually mentioned that this story broke at the Chaos Computer Congress this year.
[05:32.810 --> 05:40.530]  They mentioned that it was announced at a German hacker conference, but that's as much as they didn't specifically mention it.
[05:40.530 --> 05:41.810]  Well, there was a German hacker conference.
[05:41.910 --> 05:42.490]  I'm aware of those.
[05:42.630 --> 05:42.910]  Yeah, exactly.
[05:44.810 --> 05:49.450]  I mean, looking at the schedule, you can tell that was, and we all knew it was going to be announced then, too.
[05:49.590 --> 05:53.330]  So I was just really intrigued that this is like mainstream news here in the U.S.
[05:53.890 --> 05:57.350]  that was broken at the Chaos Computer Congress this year.
[05:57.350 --> 06:09.050]  I should point out that if you go to ccc.de, and yes, that is the address, ccc.de, as in Deutschland, as in Germany, you can see streams of all of the talks.
[06:09.290 --> 06:16.350]  They are already available online, and you can see that panel yourself and gain all kinds of interesting information.
[06:17.070 --> 06:27.110]  What I'd like to do is pass the phone around to various people who are at the conference who are also recuperating right now, the first of those being an old friend, Mitch Alton.
[06:28.630 --> 06:29.410]  Hey, folks.
[06:29.690 --> 06:30.090]  Hey, Mitch.
[06:30.090 --> 06:30.570]  How are you?
[06:30.570 --> 06:36.210]  Well, I'm totally exhausted and totally high off of the experiences of the Congress.
[06:36.570 --> 06:41.170]  Like always, whenever I come here, what is my sixth chaos event?
[06:41.810 --> 06:47.830]  And here, me and Emmanuel have all these bands around our wrists as a badge of honor.
[06:48.230 --> 06:52.150]  But, yeah, I was mostly down in a basement.
[06:52.150 --> 06:55.030]  We've gotten the biggest hardware hacking area.
[06:55.030 --> 06:56.430]  Every year it gets bigger.
[06:57.050 --> 07:01.890]  The biggest hardware that we've had is the biggest one, and it was totally packed.
[07:02.410 --> 07:09.710]  Me and Jimmy, who makes open-heart kits, amongst other things, were hopping the whole time.
[07:09.970 --> 07:14.450]  We managed to get out, escape from that little room to eat occasionally.
[07:14.630 --> 07:24.010]  I did see a few lightning talks, but it's just really great to get together in community with, you know, surrounded by geeks, you know, our people.
[07:24.770 --> 07:27.230]  And see people you haven't seen in a year.
[07:27.610 --> 07:32.290]  And, you know, I don't know, teach people, like 400 or so people.
[07:32.510 --> 07:35.590]  Me and Jimmy taught to solder, many for the first time.
[07:36.010 --> 07:38.890]  And I have all these pictures I'll put up on my Flickr page.
[07:39.490 --> 07:47.590]  You know, just to search for 2063 tag or Maltman 23, and you'll see a whole bunch of people happily making things.
[07:49.010 --> 07:50.130]  And what else?
[07:50.350 --> 08:00.850]  There's, like, I don't know, a fifth of Noisebridge, the San Francisco hackerspace, that I helped start in San Francisco, a fifth of us were here.
[08:00.890 --> 08:05.270]  We all rented an apartment, three apartments in one building.
[08:05.950 --> 08:08.610]  And so not a whole lot of sleep was happening.
[08:08.790 --> 08:10.710]  But that's the same for pretty much everyone there.
[08:10.830 --> 08:12.050]  You don't want to miss anything.
[08:12.050 --> 08:13.590]  There's just so much going on.
[08:14.150 --> 08:19.770]  So, yeah, I don't know what else to add there, unless you've got any questions.
[08:20.530 --> 08:24.470]  For people who've never seen it before, what goes on in these hardware areas?
[08:25.890 --> 08:34.430]  Oh, so I've set up these things in maker fairs and hackerspaces and hacker conferences for the last, like, almost three years now.
[08:34.730 --> 08:42.670]  I've set up a bunch of solder irons, and I put out a whole bunch of cool little projects that I made specifically to teach people how to make things.
[08:42.910 --> 08:47.730]  And I have things like blinky light things that interact with you as you wave your hand over.
[08:47.870 --> 08:52.170]  You get waves of color or brain machines, which a lot of people listening are aware of.
[08:52.350 --> 08:57.390]  A lot of people in the studio are aware of, because they made way too many of them at one point.
[08:57.910 --> 09:03.950]  And, you know, they help you meditate while you hallucinate to beautiful colors and patterns.
[09:04.550 --> 09:09.890]  TV Begons, which turn off TVs in public places from up to 50 meters away.
[09:10.350 --> 09:27.010]  And this year I had a new kit for the Congress, which is this little miniature LED cube based on and inspired by these huge LED cubes that Das Labore and der Blinkenlight's people, and now people all over the world have been making all sorts of, you know,
[09:27.070 --> 09:29.010]  cool little arty kind of things.
[09:29.310 --> 09:36.950]  And no matter, if people are interested anyways, at least one of these projects will intrigue them enough to try to make it, even if they've never made anything before.
[09:37.970 --> 09:43.230]  And, you know, I just totally love, you know, teaching people how to make things.
[09:43.390 --> 09:45.070]  And that's why I do it.
[09:45.190 --> 09:47.410]  And it's kind of contagious.
[09:47.950 --> 09:49.930]  You know, the enthusiasm wears off.
[09:50.230 --> 09:51.070]  Hey, Mitch.
[09:51.430 --> 09:51.650]  Yeah.
[09:52.330 --> 09:53.250]  This is Bernie S.
[09:53.330 --> 09:53.750]  in Philadelphia.
[09:53.750 --> 09:54.390]  How are you?
[09:54.750 --> 09:55.310]  Hey, Bernie.
[09:55.790 --> 09:56.090]  Great.
[09:56.210 --> 09:56.730]  Happy New Year.
[09:56.890 --> 09:57.850]  We're coming soon.
[09:58.170 --> 10:01.750]  You mentioned Das Labore, the hacker space in...
[10:01.750 --> 10:02.970]  Where is that in...
[10:02.970 --> 10:03.230]  Home.
[10:03.690 --> 10:09.430]  Yeah, we visited there when we were on Hackers on a plane for HAAR, the outdoor hacker camp, this summer.
[10:09.690 --> 10:15.210]  What other hackerspaces from around the world did you see represented there at 2063?
[10:15.550 --> 10:16.310]  Oh, God.
[10:16.550 --> 10:19.190]  You know, the hackerspace movement is totally taking off.
[10:19.410 --> 10:20.430]  It's really amazing.
[10:20.770 --> 10:26.230]  There's like hundreds of hackerspaces that have started in the last 18 months.
[10:26.230 --> 10:30.590]  And many of them were represented at Chaos Communications Congress here.
[10:30.790 --> 10:36.270]  I met people from five different hackerspaces in Paris a couple years ago.
[10:36.270 --> 10:36.830]  There were none.
[10:36.830 --> 10:38.770]  And now there are five in Paris alone.
[10:38.770 --> 10:45.170]  And there was a brand new one called, what was it, Rev Space, I think.
[10:45.210 --> 10:46.470]  There were a few people from there.
[10:47.150 --> 10:48.530]  And what country are they from?
[10:48.630 --> 10:49.330]  Like Luxembourg?
[10:49.470 --> 10:50.010]  I can't even remember.
[10:50.150 --> 10:50.650]  I'm...
[10:50.650 --> 10:50.810]  Yeah.
[10:51.210 --> 10:51.710]  So...
[10:51.710 --> 10:55.130]  And then there's a new one forming in Croatia.
[10:56.410 --> 11:02.470]  And there's a new one forming in a town in Sweden.
[11:02.470 --> 11:05.710]  I met someone from Oslo who said they're forming one there.
[11:06.470 --> 11:16.330]  There was Noisebridge, of course, and I-3 from Detroit, Pumping Station 1 from Chicago, people from Toronto, PacLab.to.
[11:17.110 --> 11:18.890]  There are people from Seattle.
[11:20.430 --> 11:21.410]  Where else?
[11:22.350 --> 11:23.050]  I don't know.
[11:23.130 --> 11:24.450]  It's just on and on and on.
[11:24.450 --> 11:27.550]  If my brain were at higher capacity, I could probably rattle off more.
[11:28.510 --> 11:29.610]  Wow, it's amazing.
[11:31.130 --> 11:35.970]  I understand you're coming to New York and we'll maybe see you in real life on the air?
[11:36.390 --> 11:37.530]  Yeah, yeah, I'll be there.
[11:37.710 --> 11:39.590]  I'm flying from here to there.
[11:39.730 --> 11:44.530]  I'm on a two-month tour of hackerspaces and hackers and geeks and dorks and nerds.
[11:44.670 --> 11:45.450]  Don't forget nerds.
[11:45.810 --> 11:53.170]  You know, I read that some college professor thinks you shouldn't use the words dork and nerd, but we don't like him.
[11:54.070 --> 11:58.270]  Well, I probably would like him, but I would just tend to disagree with that statement.
[11:58.570 --> 11:59.510]  All right, that's fair.
[12:00.510 --> 12:08.650]  So I reclaim all of these words, having been called them and beaten up for them every waking hour of my school life as a kid.
[12:08.930 --> 12:13.270]  But now I am proud to be a hacker, a geek, a nerd, a dork.
[12:14.790 --> 12:16.310]  Yes, wave your geek flag high.
[12:18.290 --> 12:21.690]  So I can pass the phone to someone else.
[12:21.830 --> 12:30.030]  Like Mark is sitting here, or standing here, after we walked through the snow, trudging mile after mile through the Berlin snow to get here to talk to you folks.
[12:30.030 --> 12:33.130]  So here's Bicycle Mark.
[12:34.330 --> 12:35.610]  Hello, hello from Berlin.
[12:35.910 --> 12:36.670]  Hello, Bicycle Mark.
[12:36.690 --> 12:37.550]  Hello, Bicycle Mark.
[12:38.630 --> 12:42.130]  Well, yeah, you've just heard a great summary by Mitch, actually.
[12:42.250 --> 12:46.270]  So this was my fourth Congress and fourth Congress speaking as well.
[12:46.270 --> 12:48.210]  It may have been my fifth, but I don't remember my first.
[12:48.430 --> 12:50.310]  You gave a talk, I believe?
[12:50.650 --> 12:51.150]  I did.
[12:51.270 --> 12:52.230]  I gave a talk on...
[12:52.230 --> 12:53.410]  I told stories.
[12:53.530 --> 12:54.430]  I like to tell stories.
[12:54.450 --> 13:15.010]  And I told stories of journalists, some that I know, some that I don't know, getting their data or their communication tapped, spied on, used against them perhaps, and mostly I just for some reason made a whole lot of jokes in the process and tried to entertain the crowd and put a moral lesson in there,
[13:15.090 --> 13:20.550]  which was that the hackers and journalists could, could, they don't have to, but they could help each other.
[13:21.830 --> 13:23.970]  Was there a good response to that?
[13:24.050 --> 13:27.830]  Are people, do you think, going to be able to help journalists in this way?
[13:28.650 --> 13:31.450]  Um, there's probably going to be enough.
[13:31.630 --> 13:34.550]  I mean, the EFF already does it before my talk.
[13:34.690 --> 13:43.390]  They're already working on such things, giving journalist tips on how to protect themselves when they, or home in the United States if they're American, or abroad.
[13:43.770 --> 13:49.710]  Um, you know, many hackers did bring up the fact that, uh, I don't want to talk to journalists.
[13:49.890 --> 13:50.930]  They've burned me in the past.
[13:51.050 --> 13:52.710]  There was a lot of that, actually, at the end.
[13:52.830 --> 13:54.110]  So I got a lot of mixed responses.
[13:54.190 --> 13:55.670]  I don't think I'm very loved this year.
[13:55.670 --> 13:57.030]  Uh, and that's okay.
[13:57.270 --> 13:58.790]  I don't, I'm tired of being loved, actually.
[13:59.350 --> 14:12.130]  And, uh, but many people did say, you know, the message is important, and, uh, I'm going to, I would like to contribute to a sort of list of, of, of recommendations, a few steps as to how journalists can better protect themselves.
[14:12.370 --> 14:17.010]  And, and, you know, that doesn't mean a hacker has to put themselves out there or in the public so much.
[14:17.190 --> 14:19.150]  It just means you have to share a little bit of knowledge.
[14:20.110 --> 14:22.410]  Uh, I believe WikiLeaks was also there.
[14:22.510 --> 14:23.810]  There are a bunch of journalists.
[14:24.370 --> 14:25.770]  Yeah, WikiLeaks was there.
[14:25.870 --> 14:31.830]  I mean, there's always, uh, as some of you may know from the past, there's always a good social track at these events.
[14:32.010 --> 14:37.850]  Obviously, the technical side, uh, hardware, software, and so on, is very well represented.
[14:37.850 --> 14:40.570]  But there's also a social conscience to these events.
[14:40.570 --> 14:43.130]  Uh, and that was still true, uh, this time around.
[14:43.350 --> 14:44.830]  Uh, WikiLeaks was there.
[14:45.070 --> 14:53.390]  Uh, there was that, I like when they talk about history, and there was that person talking about the lost cosmonaut communication, uh, which was interesting to listen to.
[14:54.010 --> 14:58.390]  And, um, I don't even know about all the societal topics, but I was too busy on my own.
[14:58.770 --> 14:59.750]  Uh, yeah.
[14:59.930 --> 15:01.870]  So there, there's always that social conscience, which is good.
[15:03.850 --> 15:04.430]  Sounds good.
[15:04.570 --> 15:05.910]  Anything else, uh, you want to add?
[15:06.610 --> 15:10.230]  Uh, I thought Mitch said it well with all the different, uh, people.
[15:10.230 --> 15:14.610]  Because I really noticed this year, for example, more, I met more Brazilians than I normally meet.
[15:14.950 --> 15:20.310]  Um, the, the French, that was an interesting occurrence, the amount of French from different hacker spaces.
[15:20.610 --> 15:21.970]  But, uh, he covered it quite well.
[15:22.170 --> 15:24.810]  So, uh, it, it, it's bigger than ever, I think.
[15:25.070 --> 15:27.650]  Uh, and if it's not bigger than ever, it's just as big as it's ever been.
[15:28.050 --> 15:32.310]  And, uh, it actually brings up the question, what's going to happen in the future as this gets so popular.
[15:32.850 --> 15:34.370]  Uh, but I should pass the phone on.
[15:34.810 --> 15:36.670]  I'll, I'll pass it on too far.
[15:36.830 --> 15:37.590]  Can I put far on?
[15:38.830 --> 15:39.310]  Yes, please.
[15:39.310 --> 15:40.050]  Sure, sounds great.
[15:41.190 --> 15:41.550]  Hello.
[15:41.870 --> 15:42.230]  Hello.
[15:42.430 --> 15:42.750]  Hey, far.
[15:43.430 --> 15:44.310]  Hey, how's it going, Bernie?
[15:44.710 --> 15:45.210]  All right, man.
[15:46.510 --> 15:48.330]  So how's the, how's the, how's the, how's the Congress?
[15:48.950 --> 15:50.470]  Uh, it was absolutely amazing.
[15:50.830 --> 15:55.010]  Um, this is my first time, uh, at a, at a foreign, uh, you know, conference.
[15:55.810 --> 15:57.670]  Uh, I'm completely blown away.
[15:58.110 --> 16:12.270]  Um, uh, just, there's a lot of people who I've, I've heard of or I've talked to briefly, and this was a chance to, you know, hear them speak in depth on a topic that they know really well, or even better, grab a coffee, grab a bite to eat and, and sit down and really talk to them and get to know them.
[16:12.710 --> 16:14.510]  Uh, everyone's been fantastic.
[16:14.690 --> 16:15.270]  Everyone's been great.
[16:15.510 --> 16:17.370]  Um, and I'm definitely coming back.
[16:19.350 --> 16:19.670]  Terrific.
[16:19.910 --> 16:23.810]  I hope you got to meet a lot of people from other hackerspaces around the world.
[16:23.950 --> 16:27.890]  You, uh, you started a hackerspace here in Philadelphia, uh, called, uh, Hive 76.
[16:28.230 --> 16:28.570]  Isn't that right?
[16:28.710 --> 16:30.030]  Can you tell us a little bit about that?
[16:30.710 --> 16:33.690]  Yeah, um, Hive 76 is actually the second hackerspace in Philadelphia.
[16:33.730 --> 16:36.370]  There's another great one that I'm sure you know about, Bernie, called The Hactory.
[16:36.850 --> 16:41.770]  Um, and it's another case of three years ago, there were no hackerspaces in that city, and now there's, now there's two.
[16:42.630 --> 16:45.450]  Um, yeah, and Hive is, Hive is like a lot of American hackerspaces.
[16:45.450 --> 16:50.070]  Uh, it has a lot of the maker aspect to it, and a lot of the, the hardware engineering aspect to it.
[16:50.750 --> 17:00.450]  And I'm walking away from this with a ton of great ideas of, uh, both people that can come and talk as visitors and do classes, and, uh, things we can do as a space just to, to be more awesome.
[17:01.850 --> 17:03.870]  So there's a lot of that sort of networking going on out there.
[17:04.330 --> 17:05.170]  Yeah, a whole lot.
[17:05.270 --> 17:05.650]  A whole lot.
[17:07.750 --> 17:10.830]  All right, uh, why don't we give the phone back to Emanuel, if you could?
[17:11.330 --> 17:12.170]  Yeah, that's fantastic.
[17:12.330 --> 17:13.130]  I'll hand right over Emanuel.
[17:13.610 --> 17:14.390]  Happy New Year, Far.
[17:15.150 --> 17:24.190]  Yeah, and as you can see, uh, this has really, uh, been very inspirational to so many people, um, uh, coming to this conference, either for the first time or for the 10th time.
[17:24.290 --> 17:25.830]  How many times have people have been here?
[17:26.450 --> 17:33.390]  Um, it's just, um, it's a thrilling event, uh, just to see people from all over the planet, uh, getting together, uh, for such a thing.
[17:33.490 --> 17:36.190]  It inspires us, uh, for the HOPE conferences in New York.
[17:36.370 --> 17:38.190]  We've got HOPE coming up, uh, this July.
[17:38.830 --> 17:49.150]  Um, and I think a lot of the same things that we've, we've learned from the, uh, chaos, uh, Congresses, uh, will be, um, implementing at the, uh, at the HOPE conferences as well.
[17:49.150 --> 17:55.590]  The sense of community, the, uh, the volunteerism, uh, it's, uh, it's all really an incredible thing.
[17:56.130 --> 17:57.750]  I heard it sold out this year.
[17:57.910 --> 17:58.910]  It sold out this year.
[17:59.090 --> 18:00.750]  It sold out last year as well.
[18:01.350 --> 18:04.890]  Um, and basically there's a limited number of people you can put in the building.
[18:05.010 --> 18:06.970]  And at that point, it just becomes too crowded.
[18:06.990 --> 18:09.530]  So, uh, they had to put a limit on this.
[18:09.530 --> 18:11.150]  And it's, it's actually a problem.
[18:11.370 --> 18:15.730]  It's, it's actually something that, uh, uh, the coordinators have to deal with for next time.
[18:16.270 --> 18:25.350]  How do we, um, how do we limit access without, uh, people wasting their time by coming to Berlin and not being able to get into the conference and thinking of having only advanced seats?
[18:25.350 --> 18:26.470]  Uh, next time?
[18:27.170 --> 18:33.290]  Uh, or having, uh, uh, a more, uh, readily defined, uh, uh, means of, of allocating tickets.
[18:34.050 --> 18:36.810]  Uh, yeah, you know, success can be, uh, can be hard.
[18:37.130 --> 18:40.630]  And, uh, these guys certainly have, have proven that, uh, it's, it's successful.
[18:40.810 --> 18:41.590]  There's a lot of interest.
[18:41.690 --> 18:43.170]  Many people coming from all over the place.
[18:43.730 --> 18:48.170]  Um, so, uh, there might be bigger venues in the future.
[18:48.290 --> 18:52.710]  There might be, uh, uh, different places where you can, uh, simply watch the talks.
[18:52.890 --> 19:05.210]  In fact, uh, there is, uh, there is, uh, uh, there is, uh, encouragement to, uh, to simply go to other, uh, CCC, uh, headquarters in various parts of Germany and watch the talks from there instead of coming all the way to Berlin and seeing them in person,
[19:05.330 --> 19:08.990]  which is kind of an unusual thing when you think of it for a conference, to encourage people to stay away.
[19:10.550 --> 19:14.130]  That's, uh, that's, uh, what you have to do sometimes when, when so many people want to be a part of it.
[19:14.770 --> 19:23.530]  Um, I'd also, uh, put on Kyle, who was on last week, uh, because he has, uh, a lot of unique perspectives as far as, uh, what, what happened this year.
[19:23.590 --> 19:25.910]  This is his first, uh, chaos congress as well.
[19:26.030 --> 19:29.150]  Let him say a few words on, on, on just what it all meant to him.
[19:30.270 --> 19:31.130]  Hello in New York.
[19:31.230 --> 19:31.710]  This is Kyle.
[19:31.890 --> 19:32.330]  Hello, Kyle.
[19:32.810 --> 19:33.250]  Hey, Kyle.
[19:33.730 --> 19:36.830]  Hey, um, I've got a couple things to say.
[19:37.130 --> 19:38.210]  Actually, quite a few things to say.
[19:38.290 --> 19:39.550]  I really enjoyed myself this time.
[19:39.670 --> 19:41.110]  It's the first time in Germany for me.
[19:41.410 --> 19:47.530]  Um, I attended horror over the summer and this is my first, uh, like urban congress with the CCC.
[19:48.370 --> 19:57.190]  Um, I noticed, um, uh, huge diversity in, in, in the amount of, uh, topics covered.
[19:57.190 --> 19:59.030]  It's not just technical stuff.
[19:59.270 --> 20:07.510]  And, um, as Mitch said, there's a lot of projects going on that aren't necessarily inaccessible as far as being overly technical.
[20:08.130 --> 20:13.770]  Um, in fact, I find that, that, uh, extends into the, the social element too.
[20:13.990 --> 20:16.110]  People are very accessible, very approachable.
[20:16.550 --> 20:20.330]  Um, as Emmanuel was just saying, it's, it's incredibly crowded.
[20:20.330 --> 20:22.390]  There's so many people that are, that are interested.
[20:22.850 --> 20:30.230]  So, uh, even finding a place to sort of sit down and grab a bite or drink a mate, uh, you have to kind of negotiate that, uh, for, for a little bit.
[20:30.310 --> 20:33.490]  And then, uh, when you find a spot, you end up meeting five new people.
[20:33.690 --> 20:38.790]  And, uh, if they don't all speak English, you can find at least somebody there that'll help you along.
[20:38.930 --> 20:41.470]  And, uh, so I really enjoyed that aspect.
[20:41.470 --> 20:44.490]  And I found that I met, uh, a lot of old friends from horror.
[20:44.730 --> 20:53.010]  And I really like that, that I'm, I'm not sort of limited so much anymore to, uh, to just what's going on in the States.
[20:53.010 --> 21:01.690]  I'll be, there's a lot, um, I've been involved more and more with some of the spaces in the great Pacific Northwest, including, uh, HBL.
[21:02.590 --> 21:10.130]  And, um, it's just really cool for me to have this sort of global community that I'm just, just scratching the surface of.
[21:10.310 --> 21:13.250]  And, you know, people come up and they're like, they remember you.
[21:13.410 --> 21:14.670]  They want to know what's going on.
[21:14.770 --> 21:15.510]  How's your Congress?
[21:15.510 --> 21:21.410]  And, uh, I, um, I was also able to be a part of the Angels, so, um...
[21:21.410 --> 21:22.110]  Which is what?
[21:22.930 --> 21:23.410]  Angels.
[21:23.630 --> 21:23.930]  I'm sorry.
[21:24.170 --> 21:24.650]  Angles.
[21:25.170 --> 21:26.910]  What is it for people who don't know?
[21:26.930 --> 21:26.950]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[21:26.950 --> 21:31.330]  Yeah, the, uh, the Angels, uh, are basically the, the main group of volunteers.
[21:32.230 --> 21:36.070]  And, uh, they basically make things run really smoothly.
[21:36.070 --> 21:37.610]  And they, they set things up.
[21:37.750 --> 21:40.270]  And, and this isn't some sort of exclusive group.
[21:40.650 --> 21:45.270]  Um, if you're joining the Congress, you, you absolutely can, can sign up.
[21:45.270 --> 21:47.830]  And, uh, sign up for any number of different jobs.
[21:48.590 --> 21:55.150]  And, uh, that, that, that's incredibly inspiring and, and just powerful to be a part of the team.
[21:56.110 --> 21:58.390]  Um, and, and you meet people there as well.
[21:58.510 --> 22:00.450]  You know, you're side by side working with people.
[22:00.890 --> 22:03.450]  Um, but I will say they had quite a few volunteers.
[22:03.530 --> 22:05.870]  So the, the work was spread very evenly.
[22:05.870 --> 22:10.150]  It was really easy to be, uh, a part of that group and, and just have a lot of fun.
[22:10.290 --> 22:12.230]  And it really didn't feel like there was a whole lot of work.
[22:12.230 --> 22:16.730]  Um, but, um, they do, they do get things done very, very well.
[22:17.070 --> 22:20.350]  Um, towards the end here, we, we had a closing ceremony.
[22:20.350 --> 22:21.970]  There was a brief laser show.
[22:22.290 --> 22:29.270]  Um, we sort of, uh, went back and, and, uh, gathered ourselves and, and came back maybe like an hour and a half later.
[22:29.410 --> 22:33.470]  And the thing was nearly completely broken down and, um, packed up.
[22:33.610 --> 22:40.410]  People were, were that organized, just getting things together and keeping it nice and clean and, and, and, and ready to go.
[22:40.810 --> 22:42.970]  Sort of sad to see it, to see it end.
[22:43.270 --> 22:51.370]  Um, but you, you, you leave with this tremendous sense that, uh, quite a bit is possible, uh, being involved with this.
[22:51.610 --> 22:53.670]  Um, I do want to mention one more thing.
[22:53.890 --> 22:58.230]  I saw on, in the vein of, um, talks that are a little less technical.
[22:58.630 --> 23:04.710]  Um, there was a really interesting talk today about, uh, doing photography, uh, wrong.
[23:05.270 --> 23:18.390]  And her, her, um, her topic, her topic was basically about how to, flaws as art and, and how, um, in history, this has been, uh, uh, uh, ongoing theme in photography.
[23:18.810 --> 23:21.210]  And, uh, she showed some modern twists on that.
[23:21.390 --> 23:24.330]  So, as a photographer, I really liked, I really liked that talk.
[23:24.510 --> 23:26.550]  So, um, do you guys have any questions for me?
[23:27.550 --> 23:29.710]  Um, I don't believe so.
[23:29.890 --> 23:32.050]  Is there, is there anything else you wanted to add?
[23:32.650 --> 23:34.330]  Uh, no, I feel fairly complete.
[23:34.610 --> 23:38.270]  I, I, I probably could go on and on, but, um, I'll save it for another day.
[23:39.290 --> 23:40.130]  Okay, great.
[23:40.430 --> 23:41.130]  Thank you very much, Kyle.
[23:41.170 --> 23:42.010]  Yeah, thanks for letting me speak.
[23:44.850 --> 23:47.730]  Yeah, uh, you know, we could go on for hours.
[23:48.070 --> 23:50.370]  I do have one question, Emmanuel.
[23:50.710 --> 23:50.950]  Go ahead.
[23:51.190 --> 23:55.010]  Is any of the people in the room with you, did any of them fly after Christmas?
[23:55.850 --> 23:57.590]  Uh, did any of you guys fly after Christmas?
[23:58.510 --> 23:59.290]  That, uh, here.
[24:00.010 --> 24:02.410]  Okay, Bicycle Mark flew, what day did you fly?
[24:02.490 --> 24:03.730]  The day that the Detroit thing happened.
[24:03.730 --> 24:05.290]  The day that the Detroit thing happened.
[24:05.970 --> 24:10.930]  Um, yeah, I guess, I guess it's, it's, it's, uh, destiny that we have to talk about that.
[24:11.310 --> 24:18.870]  Uh, but, uh, yeah, um, uh, well, Mark, do you want to tell us what, uh, what fun you had on the airplane as a result of this?
[24:19.010 --> 24:20.310]  Hang on, he's going to tell you what happened.
[24:20.770 --> 24:21.130]  Fantastic.
[24:21.490 --> 24:28.370]  So, uh, I, I, as far as I understand it, um, the morning of, let's see, it was Christmas Day.
[24:28.930 --> 24:31.090]  Uh, that, does that sound right?
[24:31.130 --> 24:32.210]  That plane was going to go to Detroit?
[24:32.770 --> 24:32.970]  Yeah.
[24:33.470 --> 24:41.210]  Yeah, no, I, yeah, I left the afternoon of, uh, Christmas Day, and perhaps because it was Christmas Day, I wasn't paying a lot of attention to the news, to be honest.
[24:42.090 --> 24:46.770]  Uh, everything in the airport, Newark Airport, was basically normal for Newark Airport.
[24:47.310 --> 25:00.750]  Uh, and I, I got on the plane, and, again, everything seemed quite routine, but during the flight, the pilot gets on, and he doesn't have that normal pilot tone, you know, the one where you could almost fall asleep, and he has a lot of, uh, we're cruising,
[25:00.930 --> 25:02.490]  future, and, uh, you know.
[25:02.490 --> 25:03.610]  He didn't do that.
[25:04.050 --> 25:18.930]  Instead, in, like, uh, the way a parent would yell at his children, he gets on, and he says, ladies and gentlemen, new TSA regulations, uh, one hour before the end of this flight, you will have to stay in your seats, no personal items, fasten your seatbelt,
[25:19.450 --> 25:23.850]  seat back forward, all that business, as if you're gonna land, for the whole final hour.
[25:24.170 --> 25:33.830]  Again, new regulations, and he does it in such a way that is, you know, kind of, intimidating, and it was strange, because I felt like I'd missed something, like, well, first of all, when did these new regulations come down?
[25:33.990 --> 25:36.990]  But now I realize, after landing, uh, it was that day.
[25:37.510 --> 25:38.890]  Uh, and a lot of people were confused.
[25:39.210 --> 25:47.850]  Uh, I saw a few gentlemen who weren't, who were, I would, I think they were, from, what, Western Africa, judging by the French, and they were priests.
[25:48.310 --> 25:53.830]  And, uh, they didn't even seem to notice the announcement, so they were still trying to get up and walk around, and they were getting yelled at a lot.
[25:54.190 --> 25:57.250]  Uh, and, and all, they seemed to be, they seemed to be confused.
[25:57.610 --> 26:06.690]  Uh, so there was a lot of confusion, someone got yelled at in the bathroom for being in there for too long, and then someone explained that that person was just sick, feeling sick, uh, and old, by the way.
[26:07.090 --> 26:08.650]  And, uh, that's how it was.
[26:08.730 --> 26:12.310]  The final hour was, uh, very strange, but we didn't, I don't think we knew why.
[26:12.650 --> 26:14.850]  So, what was the general reaction like among the passengers?
[26:16.290 --> 26:20.870]  I looked around, and most people didn't seem to believe this was anything new.
[26:20.870 --> 26:24.230]  Uh, and the other people didn't seem to listen.
[26:24.390 --> 26:30.550]  It's almost as if flying is so routine that we, everything people say we don't listen to, we kind of know what stage this is.
[26:30.730 --> 26:31.670]  Wait, so...
[26:31.670 --> 26:32.470]  People ignored.
[26:32.650 --> 26:37.070]  I think they basically ignored it, but, but they yet, after a while, they got with it, and they buckled their seatbelt.
[26:37.230 --> 26:43.550]  So, people are so used to flying being awful that when they introduce some, some kind of new awfulness, they barely even notice.
[26:43.950 --> 26:44.310]  Yeah.
[26:44.610 --> 26:50.010]  And there was no, definitely no, I mean, not that we expect much protest in the moment, but people just sort of did it.
[26:50.870 --> 26:55.990]  Uh, it didn't seem so scary, it was just the way the pilot yelled, it seemed like he just invented it.
[26:56.410 --> 26:57.850]  Uh, and apparently he did.
[26:58.050 --> 26:59.950]  Uh, or at least he got the announcement that day.
[27:01.030 --> 27:01.770]  Very strange.
[27:01.910 --> 27:02.810]  But you made it safely.
[27:03.310 --> 27:11.970]  I did, but I, I'd like to say that I have no intention of flying, at least for a few months, because they're just, it's just too confusing, and, and people are acting very strange.
[27:11.970 --> 27:17.830]  And I'm not talking about potential terrorists, I'm just talking about airlines and decision makers acting very strange.
[27:18.490 --> 27:29.390]  Uh, I personally think that's one of the, the really bad things about this, that all these, uh, uh, strict regulations and how confusing it is, it's discouraging people from even going to places they might otherwise want to go.
[27:29.910 --> 27:30.310]  Yeah.
[27:30.450 --> 27:32.530]  I'm going to stick to trains for at least two months.
[27:32.750 --> 27:34.350]  I'll pass the phone back to Emmanuel.
[27:34.350 --> 27:35.330]  Thank you very much.
[27:36.010 --> 27:38.410]  Yeah, so, um, let me get this straight.
[27:38.870 --> 27:50.950]  Uh, some guy, uh, from, um, on an overseas plane, uh, tries, uh, to, to light something on his lap as the plane is descending into Detroit from, from Amsterdam.
[27:51.310 --> 27:52.210]  Am I correct so far?
[27:52.310 --> 27:54.090]  That's, that's what happened on December 25th?
[27:54.210 --> 27:54.770]  That's right, yeah.
[27:54.770 --> 27:56.110]  I believe it was his underpants.
[27:56.310 --> 27:57.470]  I believe that bears mentioning.
[27:58.010 --> 27:58.010]  Okay, fine.
[27:58.150 --> 28:14.930]  Um, so, because of that, the TSA has concluded, that the most dangerous part of the flight is the last hour, and that's the only time somebody could possibly detonate a device, because that's when this guy chose to try and detonate his device.
[28:15.190 --> 28:24.970]  So they're saying, the last hour of the flight, you have to not do that, and keep everything out of your lap, and not stand up.
[28:25.770 --> 28:30.010]  And, uh, apparently it's impossible for somebody to do this in the middle of the flight, right?
[28:30.010 --> 28:38.090]  So this is their logic, that it's only that last hour that they have to confine everybody, and, uh, and keep these restrictions in place, right?
[28:38.250 --> 28:42.250]  I think you're being a bit generous in calling it logic, but, yes, that was what they said.
[28:42.430 --> 28:43.390]  Well, I'm trying real hard, Mike.
[28:43.390 --> 28:48.730]  I'm trying, I'm trying to see this as logic, but, you know, it is difficult.
[28:48.930 --> 28:49.790]  I'll give you that.
[28:49.790 --> 28:52.230]  We'll call it, uh, we'll call it rationale.
[28:52.850 --> 28:53.530]  Rationale, yeah.
[28:53.810 --> 28:54.190]  Rationale.
[28:54.310 --> 28:59.690]  The rationale that was offered is that, uh, on a, uh, an inbound international flight to the, to the U.S.
[29:00.110 --> 29:01.930]  Um, that was in the U.S.
[29:01.970 --> 29:03.470]  This isn't to Canada, this isn't to Mexico.
[29:03.470 --> 29:04.010]  Right, right, right.
[29:04.310 --> 29:05.250]  Only to the U.S.
[29:05.450 --> 29:08.230]  And from the U.S., because Bicycle Mark was flying to Amsterdam.
[29:08.230 --> 29:15.750]  So apparently, and I'm not sure how TSA regulations affect people in Holland, but apparently they do if this flight comes from the United States.
[29:15.750 --> 29:24.870]  But apparently the rationale offered is, uh, that they didn't, if a plane is going to be blown up, um, they don't want it to happen over the U.S.
[29:24.950 --> 29:28.490]  because, you know, it would fall and it could, you could hurt other people.
[29:29.130 --> 29:33.970]  Oh, wait, so you're saying this is to protect people on the ground from the airplane blowing up on top of them?
[29:34.390 --> 29:42.870]  That, that, that's the rationale that some government officials have offered, that they don't want, they don't, if a plane's going to be blown up, they don't want it to happen over U.S.
[29:43.110 --> 29:43.450]  land.
[29:44.030 --> 29:57.970]  But, of course, you know, the solutions offered are pretty empty because, you know, I don't see any reason why someone couldn't have accomplished that without getting out of their seat if they were really intending to.
[29:58.190 --> 30:06.410]  This guy apparently went into the bathroom and rigged his underpants a certain way so he could come back and try to blow them up, but he ended up just setting his leg on fire instead.
[30:07.030 --> 30:08.350]  Did he even go to the bathroom?
[30:08.570 --> 30:10.310]  He rigged the whole thing up from his seat.
[30:11.110 --> 30:28.830]  Supposedly, from what I've read, he went to the bathroom first for a while and took out the plastic explosive dildo that he had hidden in his underpants and then went back to his seat and covered himself with a blanket or something and then, among other things,
[30:29.170 --> 30:32.110]  tried to set it off but he ended up just letting his leg on fire.
[30:32.110 --> 30:41.770]  Now, I wonder if bicycle, Mark, was prohibited from using a blanket or if anybody else on his plane was prohibited from using a blanket in that final hour.
[30:42.250 --> 30:46.410]  I'll ask, Mark, were you prohibited from using a blanket during the final approach?
[30:46.810 --> 30:47.250]  Personal item.
[30:47.430 --> 30:48.770]  Yeah, that's a personal item.
[30:48.970 --> 30:49.150]  Okay.
[30:49.470 --> 30:51.050]  Yeah, he wasn't... nothing in it.
[30:51.230 --> 30:51.870]  Here's the thing, though.
[30:51.930 --> 30:54.410]  If you're wearing a dress, isn't that covering your lap?
[30:54.590 --> 30:56.390]  You can't see what's underneath that.
[30:56.450 --> 30:57.650]  So how is that different from a blanket?
[30:58.410 --> 31:01.730]  It doesn't... no, you can't apply logic to this.
[31:01.850 --> 31:02.450]  It's not about logic.
[31:02.450 --> 31:03.390]  I keep using that word.
[31:03.490 --> 31:03.810]  I'm sorry.
[31:04.930 --> 31:08.230]  Logic and common sense really aren't part of the equation here.
[31:08.630 --> 31:09.050]  Okay.
[31:09.510 --> 31:10.290]  Here's the thing.
[31:10.450 --> 31:19.890]  A bunch of us brainstormed on this to try and help the situation out because we know that people are trying to do what's right.
[31:19.990 --> 31:24.110]  We know people want everyone to enjoy the time that they're on the airplane.
[31:24.110 --> 31:32.310]  And what we realized is that that last hour can be more fun than the entire flight if you just have the right attitude.
[31:32.530 --> 31:38.030]  So what we have is basically a series of tips for the last hour of the flight.
[31:38.230 --> 31:42.730]  And you can find this on the site funwithtsa.com.
[31:42.730 --> 31:47.970]  Now, I should point out that TSA, of course, stands for Travel Safe Activities.
[31:48.250 --> 31:51.130]  So what we have here is a list of...
[31:51.130 --> 31:52.730]  And we're going to post one a day.
[31:53.150 --> 31:58.410]  The Travel Safe Activities that you can participate in during that last hour of the flight.
[31:58.410 --> 32:07.590]  And you can also subscribe to the Twitter ID, Fun with TSA, to get these sent to your phone or whatever it is that you subscribe from.
[32:08.690 --> 32:12.930]  Basically, today's tip, for instance, is Barf Bag Puppet Theater.
[32:13.510 --> 32:14.670]  Now, what...
[32:14.670 --> 32:15.770]  No, this is serious.
[32:16.010 --> 32:17.570]  What that is...
[32:17.570 --> 32:22.470]  And we say here, a good puppet show has been a crowd favorite since the medieval days.
[32:22.750 --> 32:25.730]  And people had a lot more time to kill back then.
[32:26.430 --> 32:29.070]  And it can be especially entertaining for the kids.
[32:29.330 --> 32:33.090]  We suggest being creative with the design of your characters on the barf bags.
[32:33.090 --> 32:39.530]  Obviously, unless you want some kind of horror show thing, don't use a barf bag that has already been used.
[32:40.830 --> 32:44.130]  But this is something that can easily, easily kill an hour.
[32:44.910 --> 32:48.110]  Yesterday's tip, we had Pass the Beach Ball.
[32:48.790 --> 32:51.210]  Bouncing a beach ball around, it works at concerts.
[32:51.210 --> 32:55.850]  When the rock band is late, you bounce the beach ball around for a few hours.
[32:56.010 --> 32:57.310]  Time just flies by.
[32:57.910 --> 32:58.830]  Here, you simply...
[32:58.830 --> 33:01.150]  You can't get the height because of the ceiling, obviously.
[33:01.150 --> 33:04.830]  But you can get distance if you whack the thing really hard.
[33:05.210 --> 33:06.790]  And this really...
[33:06.790 --> 33:08.090]  It's good exercise.
[33:08.390 --> 33:11.010]  And you can stay buckled into your seat.
[33:11.230 --> 33:14.350]  And simply bounce the beach ball around the cabin.
[33:14.350 --> 33:15.450]  It's great fun.
[33:15.910 --> 33:21.870]  And, you know, it's just another travel-safe activity that people can kill that last hour with.
[33:21.990 --> 33:23.310]  We're going to post one per day.
[33:23.310 --> 33:30.510]  We have all kinds of ways that that hour can pass safely and with a whole lot of fun.
[33:30.510 --> 33:46.770]  So, you know, I'm tired of hearing all this negative talk about people not being able to go to the bathroom or stand up or eat something or use a blanket or, you know, there's so much more to life than that.
[33:47.030 --> 33:49.230]  You know, so funwithtsa.com.
[33:49.410 --> 33:50.150]  Go there.
[33:50.150 --> 33:52.170]  You'll get another tip every single day.
[33:52.350 --> 33:55.590]  Our flying experience does not have to be unpleasant at all.
[33:55.770 --> 33:57.150]  You know you're going to get shot, right?
[33:57.150 --> 33:59.430]  Well, eventually we all do, right?
[34:00.210 --> 34:01.010]  It's inevitable.
[34:01.230 --> 34:04.930]  But, yes, funwithtsa.com or Twitter ID, funwithtsa.
[34:05.150 --> 34:06.090]  Yeah, yeah.
[34:06.390 --> 34:07.330]  It's that easy.
[34:08.510 --> 34:15.370]  I heard also they're going to be scanning people with these millimeter wave devices in the Amsterdam airport.
[34:15.830 --> 34:25.450]  Well, I personally suspect that this whole thing is a ruse to simply install that kind of security device where basically this is the kind that sees through clothing, right?
[34:26.090 --> 34:26.350]  Yeah.
[34:26.630 --> 34:27.470]  There's a picture here.
[34:27.470 --> 34:31.210]  I'm looking at the NRC Handelsblad article in English.
[34:32.090 --> 34:34.550]  And there's a picture of a person.
[34:34.910 --> 34:38.510]  I have to say it's not really that interesting of a picture.
[34:38.710 --> 34:39.310]  I wouldn't know.
[34:39.330 --> 34:41.090]  I only read NRC Handelsblad for the articles.
[34:44.950 --> 34:48.590]  Well, yeah, I imagine that that's something that we're going to see a lot more of.
[34:48.670 --> 34:54.330]  And the thing that amazes me is that no matter what, no matter what they do, people simply accept it.
[34:54.390 --> 34:54.970]  They don't complain.
[34:55.090 --> 34:58.230]  They don't question because, well, they're not the experts here, are they?
[34:58.990 --> 34:59.390]  Emmanuel?
[34:59.830 --> 35:00.210]  Yes, Bernie?
[35:00.210 --> 35:13.990]  I heard on the radio today a Dutch, this Schiphol Airport, which is where this Nigerian passenger allegedly departed from on his way to Detroit.
[35:14.470 --> 35:15.930]  A Schiphol Airport.
[35:16.670 --> 35:17.890]  Is it Schiphol or Schiphol?
[35:18.270 --> 35:20.130]  I say Schiphol, but what do I know?
[35:20.350 --> 35:20.750]  Whatever.
[35:20.950 --> 35:42.310]  They were saying today that they have a new technology with these scanners that will have computer software to see if there's any abnormalities with people's bodies as far as they're having concealed items under their clothing that warrant further attention so that they won't actually have to have people looking at people's naked bodies under their clothing,
[35:42.310 --> 35:44.190]  like the comic book X-ray glasses.
[35:44.430 --> 35:54.770]  They will be able to have software recognize any physical abnormalities and alert them so they only have to look at people that look strange under their clothing.
[35:54.770 --> 35:58.570]  So I'm wondering how well that's actually going to work, and that remains to be seen.
[35:59.810 --> 36:07.430]  Yeah, well, we're all learning in this whole process, and I'm sure we'll learn all kinds of weird things about security.
[36:08.870 --> 36:11.270]  But, yeah, it's a strange story.
[36:11.270 --> 36:26.230]  The thing that really gets me, though, in the end, is the only thing of concern is how in the world was this person able to get onto an airplane with something that was an explosive.
[36:26.690 --> 36:31.130]  It seems like that is really where the attention needs to be focused.
[36:31.530 --> 36:33.610]  Yes, the attention needs to be focused on his underpants.
[36:33.610 --> 36:39.190]  What you can do during the last hour of the flight, or whether or not you can have a blanket on your lap, or things like that.
[36:39.250 --> 36:42.210]  It seems like there was a security flaw of some sort.
[36:42.310 --> 36:43.950]  There was a hole somebody was able to get through.
[36:44.310 --> 36:48.770]  That is the only thing they need to be focusing on, is how did this go wrong?
[36:49.050 --> 36:50.370]  And that's what they need to fix.
[36:50.470 --> 36:54.030]  They don't need to torture anybody else with all kinds of crazy restrictions.
[36:54.610 --> 37:00.430]  What's interesting is that this guy flew through Amsterdam, which is reported to have reasonably good security.
[37:01.850 --> 37:08.250]  So that makes it especially nerve-wracking that there are, you know, people are flying from places where they're not so competent.
[37:08.930 --> 37:12.710]  Okay, Baiskomar says that he wants to defend the Dutch here.
[37:12.730 --> 37:17.690]  So I'm going to hand the phone back to him, and I don't know what he's going to say to justify this, but hold on.
[37:18.690 --> 37:25.890]  It's just that I can't stand by, and I live in the Netherlands, and I've heard people talking about Schipfel Airport, where I fly out of so often.
[37:25.930 --> 37:32.310]  And it's not that I need to defend airports, but I've heard it said that questions like, what happened to the Dutch, and how could they let this happen?
[37:32.510 --> 37:35.730]  And I would just like to say, I fly through that airport all the time.
[37:36.050 --> 37:37.870]  They do a fine job.
[37:38.030 --> 37:41.130]  And by fine job, I mean, I feel like I'm being checked.
[37:41.130 --> 37:42.370]  I guess that's a good thing.
[37:42.910 --> 37:44.830]  And you actually get through.
[37:45.090 --> 37:46.450]  I never get major delays.
[37:46.450 --> 37:56.550]  They have enough people working there, plenty of lanes, and I just sort of want to defend the system over there, because a lot of people who don't fly through there are now saying, the Dutch let us down or something.
[37:57.170 --> 37:58.350]  I don't think that's what happened.
[37:58.870 --> 38:00.090]  All right, that's my defense.
[38:00.310 --> 38:00.750]  Back to Emmanuel.
[38:01.630 --> 38:04.090]  Well, I'd just like to ask you, then, what do you think did happen?
[38:04.250 --> 38:05.570]  Where was the security flaw?
[38:07.230 --> 38:13.370]  I think, once again, they're finding areas and things that people have never thought of.
[38:14.210 --> 38:19.450]  And in the end, I think it starts in, actually, I think it starts in, before he even gets on that flight.
[38:21.830 --> 38:26.590]  Nigeria, or even, you know, the origin of someone who is angry enough.
[38:26.590 --> 38:32.090]  I want to know more about that situation in that country, you know, that leads to such things, people being extreme.
[38:32.130 --> 38:35.470]  But, of course, that's when you look behind crime, and that's not often done in this world.
[38:35.550 --> 38:36.710]  We more look at the crime.
[38:36.810 --> 38:40.270]  I have to say, though, I'm not convinced that this was all that novel.
[38:40.410 --> 38:45.790]  This seems to be a very small modification to the, if you remember, the shoe bomber.
[38:45.790 --> 38:48.590]  It's just he's moved it up, like, about a meter.
[38:48.590 --> 38:50.410]  It seems very similar to me.
[38:50.910 --> 38:52.570]  Yeah, replace the shoe with underpants.
[38:53.730 --> 38:54.510]  I guess you're right.
[38:54.570 --> 38:55.170]  It's not that clever.
[38:57.050 --> 38:58.070]  But, I don't know.
[38:58.230 --> 39:02.050]  I guess we, maybe we don't hear about the times they catch people with explosives.
[39:02.230 --> 39:06.150]  Maybe someone tried it on their knee as an interim step, and they got caught.
[39:06.250 --> 39:06.690]  I don't know.
[39:07.670 --> 39:08.930]  I have something to add to this.
[39:10.930 --> 39:16.650]  Yeah, I just wanted to add that flying over here, I really appreciated the amount of attention they had paid to my hat.
[39:16.650 --> 39:20.450]  But, I tend to wear hats, and I carry a couple extra with me.
[39:20.590 --> 39:23.870]  And they really, they thoroughly inspected each of my hats very well.
[39:24.030 --> 39:25.310]  And, it was kind of nice.
[39:25.390 --> 39:28.250]  I thought they were just admiring my style and my accessories.
[39:28.790 --> 39:33.790]  And, I didn't realize until now, they just probably thought I was causing trouble by having four hats.
[39:34.630 --> 39:35.810]  That's all I have to add.
[39:36.550 --> 39:37.910]  You're a man of many hats, Mark.
[39:38.330 --> 39:39.650]  Yeah, he certainly is.
[39:40.350 --> 39:44.190]  You know, we are looking forward greatly to flying back to the United States.
[39:44.350 --> 39:45.170]  This is going to be one.
[39:45.330 --> 39:46.150]  Who's going first?
[39:46.150 --> 39:47.210]  Mitch, when are you going?
[39:47.530 --> 39:48.790]  He's going on the 4th.
[39:49.050 --> 39:49.970]  Okay, 4th?
[39:50.270 --> 39:50.930]  The 6th.
[39:51.210 --> 39:53.170]  And, I believe, Carly going on the 8th.
[39:53.310 --> 39:55.610]  And, I'm going around that period as well.
[39:55.830 --> 39:57.890]  So, yeah, we have a lot of stories.
[39:58.510 --> 40:00.950]  Are any of you leaving through Schiphol to the U.S.?
[40:00.950 --> 40:01.850]  Anyone leaving through Schiphol?
[40:02.590 --> 40:04.010]  No, we're avoiding that.
[40:06.010 --> 40:06.490]  Yeah.
[40:07.690 --> 40:12.870]  It's just, we hear about this kind of thing through the media over here.
[40:12.870 --> 40:17.410]  And it just seems incredible that these things happen.
[40:17.410 --> 40:22.410]  And the reaction, I think the reaction to them is more unbelievable than the scenario itself.
[40:22.890 --> 40:32.810]  So, I just hope they focus attention on the security aspect of it and not come up with these crazy regulations that really don't make any sense.
[40:32.810 --> 40:35.550]  But, you know, if they have the regulations, we're going to work with them.
[40:35.670 --> 40:37.990]  We're going to have these travel-safe activities again.
[40:38.150 --> 40:39.230]  Find the TSA.com.
[40:39.610 --> 40:43.570]  Feel free to pass that around and suggest activities of your own.
[40:43.630 --> 40:44.690]  We can make this work.
[40:45.190 --> 40:49.510]  I have a bit of good travel news, and then maybe we'll take some phone calls.
[40:49.670 --> 40:50.410]  Okay, sounds good.
[40:50.590 --> 40:53.570]  Our phone number, 212-209-2900.
[40:54.090 --> 40:56.870]  So, give us a call, and we'll maybe put you on the air.
[40:56.970 --> 41:01.230]  The good news is that the MTA, the 6th line, now has some of these countdown clocks.
[41:01.230 --> 41:02.370]  Oh, they do.
[41:02.610 --> 41:03.330]  Well, it's out of time.
[41:03.470 --> 41:05.110]  You know, they have them everywhere in the world.
[41:06.170 --> 41:07.390]  Germany is incredible.
[41:07.550 --> 41:10.030]  Berlin, especially, with the transit.
[41:10.330 --> 41:11.910]  You know when a train is coming.
[41:12.290 --> 41:14.410]  The trains come fairly often and frequently.
[41:15.670 --> 41:19.270]  And, you know, you can get places all throughout Europe very, very quickly.
[41:20.070 --> 41:22.930]  This is something that, you know, I've said this many, many times.
[41:22.930 --> 41:24.050]  I've been here so many times.
[41:24.210 --> 41:30.350]  And it's inspirational, but it's also frustrating because we can never seem to get it right in the United States.
[41:31.250 --> 41:33.630]  Here, they want to get someplace faster.
[41:33.630 --> 41:37.290]  They build a faster train, and they have it installed very quickly.
[41:37.490 --> 41:45.670]  I just read this week about China installing a high-speed train that made an 11-hour journey into a 3-hour journey.
[41:45.670 --> 42:03.270]  And they achieve speeds of, I believe, 350 kilometers an hour, whereas in the United States, the so-called high-speed line makes a trip from New York to Boston, which is about, I think, 300 kilometers in three and a half hours.
[42:03.270 --> 42:05.130]  So it's really silly.
[42:05.450 --> 42:06.330]  It's comical.
[42:06.330 --> 42:08.570]  But we don't seem to be getting anywhere.
[42:08.690 --> 42:14.130]  And everyone else seems to be recognizing the importance of high-speed rail and mass transit.
[42:14.330 --> 42:16.990]  So, you know, that's a proper application of logic in a mass transit system.
[42:17.310 --> 42:26.170]  Well, if you're on the 6th line between Brook and Longwood Avenues, you may not get there any faster, but you'll have a better chance to know how long you're not getting there.
[42:26.550 --> 42:29.670]  Well, hopefully this is a network-wide thing that will be installed.
[42:30.190 --> 42:35.090]  I haven't been up to the Bronx in quite a while, actually, but certainly not since they put these in.
[42:35.230 --> 42:41.210]  They say by the middle of 2011, they'll be on the whole IRT, which are the numbered lines.
[42:41.930 --> 42:43.310]  They still call it IRT?
[42:43.630 --> 42:44.990]  I call it the IRT.
[42:45.270 --> 42:47.890]  This article in the Post calls it the numbered lines.
[42:48.290 --> 42:49.070]  Numbered lines.
[42:49.390 --> 42:51.750]  Mike, are these countdown clocks accurate?
[42:51.750 --> 43:06.550]  I read in the Times, the New York Times, that people being interviewed, that they waited several minutes after the posted arrival time for their trains to actually arrive, and they felt like they were duped by this inaccuracy.
[43:07.450 --> 43:08.270]  I don't know.
[43:08.910 --> 43:09.570]  Could be.
[43:10.070 --> 43:13.390]  Well, we'll find out how they work, and we'll report about it on Off the Hook.
[43:13.650 --> 43:16.930]  Were there any other news stories this week that we'd like to focus on?
[43:16.930 --> 43:18.590]  Anything interesting happening back in the States?
[43:20.230 --> 43:21.930]  It's been a sort of slow week.
[43:21.930 --> 43:22.610]  I don't have anything.
[43:22.670 --> 43:23.770]  I don't know if anyone else does.
[43:23.970 --> 43:27.230]  There was one figure that I caught, Emmanuel, that you might be interested in.
[43:27.310 --> 43:32.230]  Apparently, the final tally of bottles of Club Mate consumed at the Congress was 11,000 bottles.
[43:32.590 --> 43:33.890]  How did you find that out?
[43:33.970 --> 43:34.510]  Yes, that is true.
[43:34.590 --> 43:36.530]  11,000 bottles of Club Mate were consumed.
[43:36.850 --> 43:38.090]  More than one person tweeted it.
[43:38.090 --> 43:40.310]  I don't know how a word of that got back to the States so quickly.
[43:40.550 --> 43:41.090]  The Twitters.
[43:41.690 --> 43:42.930]  The Twitters, of course.
[43:43.070 --> 43:44.990]  Twitter betrayed us here.
[43:45.650 --> 43:47.090]  Yes, that's certainly true.
[43:47.730 --> 43:49.290]  I've never seen so much Club Mate.
[43:51.590 --> 43:52.810]  Bottles are just everywhere.
[43:53.250 --> 44:02.910]  In fact, I started noticing at the talks, I started keeping time to how long it takes while you're listening to somebody speak for it to hear a bottle fall over.
[44:04.530 --> 44:08.030]  And if you've come to one of these conferences, you know they're glass bottles.
[44:08.210 --> 44:09.310]  And they're on the floor.
[44:09.910 --> 44:12.190]  And someone is always knocking into one.
[44:12.250 --> 44:13.730]  So you just hear this bottle fall.
[44:13.930 --> 44:17.070]  And the longest I've ever gone without hearing a bottle fall is eight minutes.
[44:17.630 --> 44:20.710]  So I'm just wondering if other people have noticed that as well.
[44:20.870 --> 44:25.390]  Does that mean people were holding their bottles because they were in such rapt attention or just that it was poorly attended?
[44:25.630 --> 44:25.710]  No, no, they put the bottle...
[44:25.710 --> 44:26.250]  They put the...
[44:26.250 --> 44:28.890]  Usually it's an empty bottle on the floor by their feet.
[44:29.010 --> 44:32.670]  And then somebody walks by trying to get to an empty seat and they just kick it over.
[44:33.110 --> 44:34.570]  No, so I saw one bottle explode, though.
[44:34.670 --> 44:36.050]  This is quite impressive.
[44:37.090 --> 44:39.410]  And it doesn't take much because these are glass bottles.
[44:40.050 --> 44:44.590]  There was one full one and somebody apparently just knocked it over and it was on the floor already.
[44:44.670 --> 44:48.650]  But simply by knocking it over and it hitting the floor, it just burst.
[44:49.270 --> 44:50.710]  And glass flew everywhere.
[44:50.930 --> 44:53.090]  And the person who did it was dumbfound.
[44:53.150 --> 44:58.370]  They had no idea how that was even possible that such a violent explosion could happen just by knocking a bottle over.
[44:58.610 --> 45:01.830]  But yeah, that's what happens when you have these kinds of things in glass bottles.
[45:01.950 --> 45:02.830]  We're not used to it in the States.
[45:03.090 --> 45:05.330]  It's not a proper hacker event until something explodes.
[45:05.830 --> 45:06.650]  Yeah, exactly.
[45:06.970 --> 45:08.510]  That made it a true hacker event.
[45:10.250 --> 45:11.550]  Maybe we'll take some phone calls.
[45:11.830 --> 45:12.730]  I think that would be good.
[45:13.070 --> 45:13.290]  Yes.
[45:13.750 --> 45:15.990]  The number, 212-209-2900.
[45:16.150 --> 45:18.430]  But we have a bunch ringing already.
[45:18.850 --> 45:20.590]  And hello, you're on the air.
[45:21.170 --> 45:21.470]  Yes.
[45:21.590 --> 45:27.890]  I'd like to mention, getting off the topic, did you ever mention that there are no more pay phones?
[45:27.970 --> 45:31.810]  They're removing pay phones from restaurants and hotels.
[45:32.350 --> 45:35.790]  And now in New York City, they have all these co-cut phones.
[45:36.210 --> 45:40.090]  Why do they now have co-cut phones instead of regular bill-operating company phones?
[45:40.230 --> 45:43.730]  They're removing the bill-operating company phones because everybody's using cell phones.
[45:43.870 --> 45:46.090]  But why would they have co-cut phones anyway?
[45:46.310 --> 45:50.030]  In short, because it's not worth it to the phone company anymore to run their own pay phones.
[45:50.030 --> 45:55.170]  but it can be slightly worth it for certain institutions to run their own co-cuts.
[45:56.070 --> 46:02.530]  No, but I'm saying on the street in New York City in Manhattan there's more co-cuts out than bill-operating company phones.
[46:02.690 --> 46:03.190]  See what I'm saying?
[46:03.550 --> 46:08.570]  I mean, they're removing bill-operating company phones from places like restaurants and hotels and places like that.
[46:09.150 --> 46:14.970]  And out in the street they're not removing them as much and there are more co-cuts than bill-operating company phones.
[46:15.090 --> 46:16.410]  Because life is rough in the streets.
[46:17.430 --> 46:19.350]  Immanuel, did you expect that?
[46:20.030 --> 46:21.910]  You know, for some reason, I didn't hear anything.
[46:22.170 --> 46:23.430]  I just heard silence.
[46:23.550 --> 46:24.010]  How sad.
[46:24.310 --> 46:24.870]  Yeah, I'm sorry.
[46:24.870 --> 46:30.330]  I have a filter on my phone, and I can't hear certain people.
[46:31.230 --> 46:33.890]  Maybe you'll be able to hear this next call a little better.
[46:34.010 --> 46:34.870]  I'll have to hear the next call.
[46:35.010 --> 46:35.790]  Yeah, what's on your mind?
[46:35.870 --> 46:36.070]  Hello?
[46:36.350 --> 46:36.610]  Hi.
[46:37.390 --> 46:42.430]  Yes, my fiancé and I are going to Florida for my vacation.
[46:42.430 --> 46:45.010]  I teach at William Patterson University, and I'm off.
[46:45.650 --> 46:53.150]  So we're going the 6th to the 12th, and I was listening to your program, and I'm wondering, what can we expect or what should we do?
[46:53.350 --> 47:00.770]  Like, you know, I don't know about using the bathroom, or you said in the last hour.
[47:01.210 --> 47:03.470]  I think the flight is about two and a half hours.
[47:03.610 --> 47:04.010]  I'm not sure.
[47:04.150 --> 47:06.810]  It's about to Fort Lauderdale from Newark.
[47:07.290 --> 47:09.090]  But let's see.
[47:09.510 --> 47:16.790]  These things are... they keep changing their mind about everything, so it'll probably be completely different in a week from how it is now.
[47:17.590 --> 47:22.170]  So what I can say is, you know, like Mike says, it's different everywhere.
[47:23.410 --> 47:28.670]  Some regulations might take place overseas flights and not on domestic flights, but, you know, it's really up to the pilot.
[47:29.170 --> 47:34.070]  And the TSA, they've got their hands full, so that's why, you know, we're trying to help with these activities.
[47:34.330 --> 47:43.670]  So go to funwithtsa.com and just read the activity of the day and try and stay entertained during the period of the flight.
[47:44.250 --> 47:47.330]  And, you know, grin and bear it is the only thing we can possibly advise.
[47:47.550 --> 47:54.030]  But you do feel that they're colder or unfeeling or frightened themselves?
[47:54.270 --> 48:01.310]  At the end of the day, the people you're dealing with on the plane are just doing their jobs, and they're probably at least as miserable as you are about the whole situation.
[48:01.730 --> 48:02.130]  So...
[48:02.130 --> 48:02.810]  That's the hope.
[48:02.810 --> 48:04.030]  Yeah, that's the hope.
[48:04.170 --> 48:06.530]  But before you travel, expect the worst.
[48:06.790 --> 48:10.730]  And then when you get there, ask them, because, as we said, things could be different from day to day.
[48:10.810 --> 48:14.450]  So when you get on the plane, ask, you know, what can I do an hour before landing?
[48:14.590 --> 48:15.290]  What can't I do?
[48:15.430 --> 48:18.810]  And get everything out in the open before the flight's gone, you know, commenced.
[48:18.890 --> 48:19.330]  Well, that's a good idea.
[48:20.070 --> 48:21.970]  I enjoy your program very much.
[48:22.050 --> 48:22.790]  Thank you very much for your call.
[48:22.790 --> 48:23.230]  And have a great work.
[48:23.610 --> 48:24.250]  Goodbye now.
[48:24.450 --> 48:24.990]  All right, bye.
[48:24.990 --> 48:25.410]  Happy New Year.
[48:25.610 --> 48:26.310]  Happy New Year.
[48:26.470 --> 48:27.330]  Thanks for the call.
[48:28.710 --> 48:30.490]  And we'll come over here.
[48:30.510 --> 48:31.310]  What's on your mind?
[48:32.850 --> 48:33.290]  Yes.
[48:33.630 --> 48:34.070]  Hi.
[48:34.690 --> 48:36.050]  Good evening, gentlemen.
[48:37.650 --> 48:43.970]  First of all, I want to hear some discussion about the effects of those.
[48:44.150 --> 48:48.050]  In order for them to see through your clothes, you're being blasted.
[48:48.170 --> 48:50.270]  So that's some sort of soft kill there.
[48:50.630 --> 48:53.030]  But I want to bring up something that...
[48:53.030 --> 49:07.110]  And by the way, Emmanuel, when you get back, I'm not going to try to go through it now, but there are some very peculiar things about that incident with the so-called underwear bomber, which you'll discover as you get back.
[49:07.290 --> 49:08.010]  And you're right.
[49:08.010 --> 49:20.790]  It is a ruse to tighten the screws of the police state database grid, because you go into a bad database once you step into one of those probably very dangerous machines.
[49:21.430 --> 49:32.130]  But a few weeks ago, Emmanuel, you suggested that you were going to get back on track with looking at so-called 9-11, okay?
[49:32.130 --> 49:47.730]  And I think Webster Tarpley said it best when he said, when the progressive movement gets the brain, we're dealing with 9-11, because the official explanation couldn't be true for the commissioners.
[49:48.290 --> 49:49.570]  And who would have kept counsel?
[49:49.790 --> 49:50.950]  Let me just finish this point.
[49:51.150 --> 49:52.670]  I don't have a lot of time.
[49:52.890 --> 50:00.610]  And said that they wish there were somewhere to refer the Pentagon and the DOJ for criminal investigation.
[50:00.610 --> 50:07.090]  So hopefully you'll open up that discussion because it's a pattern with Yemen being retaliated.
[50:07.190 --> 50:10.910]  The CNN banner was Yemen being retaliated.
[50:10.950 --> 50:11.850]  Let me just say one thing.
[50:12.590 --> 50:19.890]  We'll be happy to talk all about that, convince the radio station to give us a couple more hours a week, and we have all the time in the world to discuss all this.
[50:20.010 --> 50:27.910]  But right now we sort of have to focus on our field of expertise, which is the hacker world and privacy and computer technology and things like that.
[50:28.710 --> 50:36.850]  As to the scanners, it's supposedly supposed to be safer than x-rays, which is why they're blasting an entire person.
[50:37.070 --> 50:39.390]  But you don't put the person through an x-ray normally.
[50:39.770 --> 50:40.850]  Right, but...
[50:40.850 --> 50:44.150]  Comparing something that is happening to something that isn't happening.
[50:44.450 --> 50:50.310]  The whole point is that you're not supposed to be able to walk through a whole x-ray machine because it's damaging, like in your privates and so on.
[50:50.510 --> 50:54.790]  But the papers you have, does it say specifically what type of energy that's used?
[50:54.790 --> 50:55.590]  Because I forget.
[50:55.810 --> 50:57.390]  I don't know, here's some Dutch...
[50:57.390 --> 50:59.470]  I believe the technology is said to be magic-based.
[50:59.890 --> 51:00.330]  Yes.
[51:00.690 --> 51:04.670]  It's a millimeter wave, so it's microwave, but much...
[51:04.670 --> 51:10.230]  Just like Wi-Fi is like 2.4 gigahertz microwave, but very low power.
[51:10.730 --> 51:17.350]  This is not nearly as high a frequency as x-rays, so it's not the type of radiation that you get from x-rays.
[51:17.450 --> 51:18.490]  It's much lower in frequency.
[51:18.490 --> 51:19.310]  It's microwaves.
[51:20.630 --> 51:23.450]  But hopefully it's much lower power than microwave ovens.
[51:23.450 --> 51:33.450]  And we'll just have to do some research on that and find out what the power levels are, because this is a valid concern people have about walking through these machines being bathed in RF energy.
[51:35.330 --> 51:36.150]  Very interesting.
[51:36.370 --> 51:39.310]  Okay, let's try line 8.
[51:40.670 --> 51:41.770]  Good evening, sir.
[51:42.390 --> 51:45.130]  Can you turn your radio down, please?
[51:45.510 --> 51:46.750]  Good evening, sir.
[51:48.710 --> 51:49.710]  One point...
[51:51.510 --> 51:53.890]  I'm sorry, we really don't have a really good connection going on.
[51:54.030 --> 51:56.790]  Yeah, it's very strange problems we have.
[51:58.330 --> 52:00.150]  But let's try this one.
[52:00.370 --> 52:01.150]  You're on the air.
[52:03.210 --> 52:03.650]  Hello?
[52:04.190 --> 52:04.610]  Hello.
[52:05.010 --> 52:05.950]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[52:06.170 --> 52:08.250]  Hi, I just want to say a few things.
[52:08.670 --> 52:13.770]  Someone said, and it was very clear, that no one says anything.
[52:13.770 --> 52:21.530]  Everybody lets be done whatever they want to do, and everyone just goes along with it and takes the shift.
[52:21.730 --> 52:23.170]  No one complains.
[52:23.490 --> 52:31.190]  Nothing is ever going to change unless people change it by not being a part of the system.
[52:31.410 --> 52:34.250]  Not fighting the system, but just don't be a part of it.
[52:34.410 --> 52:37.570]  If people don't make it happen, it's never going to happen.
[52:39.070 --> 52:40.750]  Okay, thanks for your thoughts.
[52:41.090 --> 52:41.610]  You're welcome.
[52:45.030 --> 52:46.630]  I agree, that's a good point.
[52:46.730 --> 52:47.310]  I agree with that.
[52:47.890 --> 52:49.390]  It's just, it's difficult.
[52:49.770 --> 52:53.450]  It sounds wise to just drop out of the system, but it can be difficult.
[52:53.790 --> 52:54.550]  That is difficult.
[52:54.550 --> 52:56.730]  For instance, what if you want to go to CCC?
[52:57.050 --> 52:59.750]  You need to be part of the system, as in get an airplane.
[53:00.010 --> 53:00.810]  You could get a kayak.
[53:02.010 --> 53:04.670]  I would like to see you, you can start that movement.
[53:04.870 --> 53:05.810]  No, thank you.
[53:08.130 --> 53:11.170]  Once again, kayaking is not quite our field of expertise on the show.
[53:11.170 --> 53:13.650]  And I know what kind of shape I'm in or not in.
[53:14.910 --> 53:18.310]  But let's see, maybe Line 5 has a suggestion for us.
[53:19.450 --> 53:19.850]  Hello?
[53:20.050 --> 53:21.030]  Hi, you're on the air.
[53:21.390 --> 53:23.910]  Hey, it's Scott Conn from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
[53:24.450 --> 53:26.890]  I know you guys are running out of time, so I'll make it quick.
[53:26.890 --> 53:44.790]  Emanuel, maybe if there's some time that you can talk about the comparison in Europe with the train system that they have and the security, and whether or not, you know, how tight is it compared to the TSA in kind of the U.S.
[53:44.870 --> 53:45.630]  and so forth?
[53:46.230 --> 53:54.670]  Well, I mean, I think you'll find the same thing in the States, where train travel is not nearly as stressful as airplane travel.
[53:55.570 --> 54:00.130]  Spoken like, well, not as stressful as airplane travel, but not all that nice.
[54:00.750 --> 54:01.790]  Well, I don't know.
[54:01.970 --> 54:02.990]  Here it's pretty nice.
[54:03.450 --> 54:05.110]  You know, there's plenty of space.
[54:05.110 --> 54:10.230]  You simply get on the train, and you're not passing through x-rays and things like that.
[54:10.430 --> 54:11.910]  Not long waits or anything.
[54:13.070 --> 54:13.730]  I mean, I don't know.
[54:13.870 --> 54:17.890]  I'm not sure why it's a lot less stressful here, but it certainly is.
[54:18.210 --> 54:20.230]  I mean, Europe usually sets the standard.
[54:20.490 --> 54:23.470]  I mean, at least we should all be following that kind of standard, because they...
[54:23.950 --> 54:28.210]  I mean, the amount of stuff that they see year by year, it's so much more.
[54:28.810 --> 54:31.470]  It seems like there's a lot of propaganda in the U.S.
[54:31.490 --> 54:37.670]  and Canada compared to what's kind of going on in Europe and the way that they handle security.
[54:39.730 --> 54:55.050]  Well, I mean, the thing is, what we have to focus on with this latest incident is that if it really is that easy to bypass airplane security, it's amazing that this kind of thing hasn't happened so many more times in the past.
[54:55.050 --> 54:59.170]  And I think that's something we need to look at, is that, wow, this isn't really happening all that often.
[55:00.090 --> 55:02.810]  You know, maybe we don't need to freak out quite as much.
[55:02.810 --> 55:06.510]  Maybe we just need to focus on the people that could be the real threat.
[55:08.330 --> 55:13.810]  But, I don't know, it seems overblown, like most things that we focus on.
[55:15.390 --> 55:15.830]  Thanks.
[55:16.150 --> 55:17.230]  You guys keep up the good work.
[55:17.470 --> 55:17.830]  Thank you.
[55:18.050 --> 55:18.350]  Thanks.
[55:19.430 --> 55:21.690]  We have just a few seconds left.
[55:21.690 --> 55:23.410]  Should we try and squeeze in one more call?
[55:23.750 --> 55:24.690]  Yeah, let's see if we can do one more.
[55:24.770 --> 55:25.190]  I feel that's wise.
[55:25.350 --> 55:25.810]  All right.
[55:26.050 --> 55:29.350]  Let's see what's on line seven's mind.
[55:30.730 --> 55:31.990]  Good evening, sir.
[55:33.130 --> 55:34.170]  No, that's...
[55:34.170 --> 55:37.370]  I should just avoid that whole area of the board.
[55:37.430 --> 55:39.230]  I got silence again on that call.
[55:39.390 --> 55:40.170]  It's so weird.
[55:40.690 --> 55:45.690]  You'd think the phone bridge would work better, but let's try up here.
[55:46.970 --> 55:47.490]  Hello?
[55:48.310 --> 55:48.670]  Hi.
[55:48.910 --> 55:50.110]  Am I in the air?
[55:50.250 --> 55:52.910]  Yes, we have just a brief time left.
[55:53.250 --> 56:02.350]  Okay, I just wanted to say one thing that dawned on me, you know, but this terrorist, you know, I mean, the fact that that happened once in, what, seven years?
[56:02.510 --> 56:05.130]  I mean, that's a pretty good batting average, you know, something like this leaked through.
[56:05.270 --> 56:09.190]  So, I just wanted to put that out there that, you know, I think the security is probably pretty good.
[56:09.650 --> 56:10.650]  And that's all I have to say.
[56:10.750 --> 56:10.890]  Thanks.
[56:10.890 --> 56:26.030]  Well, one possible argument that the other side might have against not increasing security is to say that you could look at this as possibly, you know, after seven years, someone finds a hole.
[56:26.030 --> 56:34.070]  And now that this hole is known, everyone is going to exploit it, and that now they need to tighten up security in order to stop the hole from being exploited in the future.
[56:35.830 --> 56:43.710]  Well, that's one way of looking at it, but, you know, you can drive people crazy with farcical ways of supposedly tightening security.
[56:43.990 --> 56:45.650]  And I don't know.
[56:45.750 --> 56:47.530]  I'm wondering how effective it will all be.
[56:48.650 --> 56:51.090]  And with that, I think we're just about out of time.
[56:51.410 --> 56:52.310]  Don't forget the website.
[56:52.850 --> 56:58.050]  Yes, don't forget the website, funwithtsa.com, or Twitter ID, funwithtsa.
[56:59.450 --> 57:03.750]  Also, 2,600 meetings would normally be this Friday, but a lot of them are pushed forward a week due to the holidays.
[57:03.930 --> 57:06.090]  So, check with your local websites, IRCs, and what have you.
[57:07.530 --> 57:08.510]  And that's about it.
[57:08.630 --> 57:12.610]  So, for Off the Hook, a very happy new year to all of you, from all of us.
[57:13.190 --> 57:14.890]  This has been Rob T.
[57:14.970 --> 57:15.690]  Firefly with Off the Hook.
[57:15.890 --> 57:16.450]  Thank you for listening.
[57:16.610 --> 57:16.710]  Good night.
[57:17.490 --> 57:19.890]  It all comes back to you
[57:27.960 --> 57:32.600]  I would speak, IB, I'm so good
[57:40.370 --> 57:43.910]  Where would I be without birth control?
[57:44.750 --> 57:48.110]  Where would I be without their weather friends?
[57:48.710 --> 57:52.090]  Where would I be without IB?
[57:59.140 --> 58:13.560]  You tell me what I should need Advice is your specialty But could I ever need enough For you to set me free?
[58:14.720 --> 58:18.640]  I'm afraid to make decisions
[58:22.430 --> 58:33.830]  In the case of chance collision I look at you as my friend Where would I be without my PC?
[58:34.510 --> 58:37.370]  Where would I be without MTV?
[58:38.650 --> 58:41.450]  Where would I be without CNN?
[58:42.570 --> 58:45.950]  Where would I be without IB?
[58:46.990 --> 58:47.390]  Vidad
[58:58.270 --> 58:58.270]  M.
[58:58.320 --> 59:00.040]  C-E-I M.
[59:00.480 --> 59:02.140]  C-E-M M.
[59:02.500 --> 59:04.100]  C-E-I C-E-M M.
[59:04.360 --> 59:09.700]  C-E-C F .E.G-A-B F-E-I M.
[59:25.210 --> 59:26.270]  C-E-A-B M.
[59:46.960 --> 59:51.100]  C-E-C Where would I be without all my toys?
[59:51.560 --> 59:55.160]  Where would I be without sample noise?
[59:55.580 --> 59:58.580]  Where would I be without seeing you again?
[01:00:02.560 --> 01:00:04.160]  Catholicreb LINIS
[01:00:43.820 --> 01:00:45.800]  Yeah, that's right.
[01:00:46.040 --> 01:00:46.340]  Today.
[01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:51.200]  All right, that's right.
[01:00:51.380 --> 01:00:52.280]  So right you are.
[01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:53.240]  All righty.
[01:00:54.320 --> 01:00:56.540]  All right, you know what time it is.
[01:00:56.660 --> 01:01:01.760]  It is now 8 o'clock here on WBAI New York 99.5 FM.