[00:00.870 --> 00:02.890]  A couple meets in a secluded spot.
[00:03.030 --> 00:03.630]  Hi, Harry.
[00:03.950 --> 00:04.410]  Hi, Judy.
[00:04.610 --> 00:05.210]  Do you want to do it?
[00:05.330 --> 00:06.450]  Yeah, I want to do it.
[00:06.530 --> 00:07.350]  I want to do it, too.
[00:07.490 --> 00:08.350]  But are we qualified?
[00:08.570 --> 00:09.030]  What do you mean?
[00:09.170 --> 00:16.690]  Are we qualified to be volunteers answering phones during WBAI's winter fundraising drive beginning Wednesday, February 3rd through the first week of March?
[00:16.750 --> 00:17.370]  I think so.
[00:17.510 --> 00:18.010]  You think so?
[00:18.150 --> 00:19.050]  We need a checklist.
[00:19.250 --> 00:19.410]  Right.
[00:19.570 --> 00:19.710]  Check.
[00:20.010 --> 00:21.370]  Oh, we can write legibly?
[00:21.570 --> 00:21.870]  Check.
[00:22.190 --> 00:23.910]  We can speak politely to callers?
[00:24.030 --> 00:24.170]  Check.
[00:24.330 --> 00:25.610]  We love WBAI?
[00:25.730 --> 00:25.930]  Check.
[00:26.150 --> 00:30.450]  We have photo IDs to get in the building, 120 Wall Street between Water and South Street.
[00:30.570 --> 00:34.570]  And we want to share the thrill of victory when the program we are answering phones for achieves its goal.
[00:34.650 --> 00:35.370]  Or exceeds it.
[00:35.510 --> 00:35.670]  Check.
[00:35.950 --> 00:37.050]  The thrill of victory.
[00:37.290 --> 00:47.690]  If you'd like to share the thrill of victory with our WBAI producers and staff, call Vera at 212-209-2826 to arrange a convenient time for your shift in the tally room.
[00:47.890 --> 00:50.070]  Your participation is greatly appreciated.
[00:50.250 --> 00:50.810]  Call Vera.
[00:51.070 --> 00:51.230]  Check.
[01:00.380 --> 01:03.880]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[01:03.880 --> 01:06.380]  Eric, I'm sorry, I forgot to put the theme in the CD player.
[01:06.780 --> 01:09.380]  Guys, kill some time there, just for a moment.
[01:09.580 --> 01:10.640]  It's just so crazy out there.
[01:10.760 --> 01:11.880]  Everything is nuts.
[01:12.140 --> 01:13.120]  It's pretty crazy in here, too.
[01:13.280 --> 01:14.620]  This is a really lame excuse.
[01:14.940 --> 01:16.660]  I'm not going to stand for it.
[01:16.700 --> 01:17.840]  Yeah, this has nothing to do with the weather.
[01:17.900 --> 01:19.060]  This has to do with my incompetence.
[01:19.120 --> 01:19.440]  I'm sorry.
[01:19.880 --> 01:21.340]  I got involved in the conversation.
[01:21.340 --> 01:22.520]  I totally forgot to load the theme.
[01:22.800 --> 01:24.500]  But the theme is loading right now.
[01:24.740 --> 01:25.780]  It's 7 o'clock.
[01:25.840 --> 01:29.080]  You are listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[01:29.580 --> 01:33.140]  And that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[01:33.140 --> 01:33.660]  Oh, it started.
[01:33.940 --> 01:34.180]  Yeah.
[01:36.930 --> 01:38.890]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:39.190 --> 01:41.410]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:42.370 --> 01:44.390]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:44.930 --> 01:46.910]  Now I can't make a call.
[01:47.550 --> 01:49.770]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:52.490 --> 01:54.030]  Bum-diddly-bum for the best.
[01:54.190 --> 01:55.170]  It's made the worst.
[01:55.770 --> 01:57.670]  I hope that's understood.
[01:57.870 --> 01:58.650]  Bum-diddly-bum!
[03:23.360 --> 03:24.420]  And good evening to everybody.
[03:24.520 --> 03:25.380]  The program is Off the Hook.
[03:25.440 --> 03:26.600]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[03:26.700 --> 03:28.240]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[03:28.420 --> 03:28.740]  Hello.
[03:29.100 --> 03:29.480]  Dot-ret.
[03:29.760 --> 03:30.020]  Hello.
[03:30.320 --> 03:30.720]  Red Hack.
[03:31.140 --> 03:33.140]  I got a microphone and a headphone.
[03:33.400 --> 03:36.320]  Yeah, that's because no one else could make it through the blizzard outside.
[03:36.720 --> 03:37.940]  Bernie has down there in Philadelphia.
[03:38.480 --> 03:39.840]  Hey, I had no trouble getting in.
[03:39.840 --> 03:46.840]  You know, it's funny because I drove 60 miles today through the blizzard and you don't see me complaining about that.
[03:47.280 --> 03:54.320]  Except for the fact that I cracked my headlight on the stupid SUV that was parked in front of me because the bumper was leveled with my headlight instead of the bumper.
[03:54.440 --> 03:56.240]  I rode in a cab driving through the blizzard.
[03:56.340 --> 03:56.560]  Yeah.
[03:56.760 --> 03:57.640]  It's not much of a blizzard.
[03:57.860 --> 03:59.640]  You know, I don't think it's that much.
[04:00.540 --> 04:01.520]  It's New York City.
[04:01.640 --> 04:02.300]  You know, we get by.
[04:02.740 --> 04:04.300]  Unlike certain cities, which I won't name.
[04:04.780 --> 04:05.500]  I'll name them.
[04:05.660 --> 04:06.380]  Washington, D.C.
[04:06.380 --> 04:08.860]  The place falls apart with a quarter inch of snow.
[04:09.040 --> 04:09.580]  Well, yeah.
[04:09.740 --> 04:15.100]  So they've gotten something like 30 or 40 now and they're just canceling things up through March, apparently.
[04:15.340 --> 04:23.700]  But I mean, that's not really the fault of whatever city it is that, you know, I mean, Washington specifically at this moment, they're not prepared to handle it because they don't have to, right?
[04:23.700 --> 04:24.400]  Well, they do now.
[04:24.600 --> 04:25.040]  Well, yeah.
[04:25.160 --> 04:34.620]  But I'm saying like in Finland, right, there's no such thing as a snow day because as soon as it starts snowing, they clear it because they have the resources because it's something they have to deal with on a regular basis.
[04:34.620 --> 04:40.440]  Okay, but Washington, D.C., that's the city that makes all these crazy laws and advisories about being prepared for things.
[04:40.640 --> 04:42.940]  They can't prepare themselves for a little snow.
[04:43.320 --> 04:45.720]  But it's different because you have to have physical resources.
[04:45.720 --> 04:48.900]  They don't have enough snow plows and trucks and all that, I'm sure.
[04:49.040 --> 04:49.720]  And that's why...
[04:49.720 --> 04:55.860]  So if they can't ward off Mother Nature, how are they going to ward off nuclear terrorists and Al-Qaeda and things like that?
[04:55.940 --> 04:57.600]  How can they possibly be prepared for this?
[04:57.740 --> 04:58.500]  Well, they don't have to.
[04:58.640 --> 04:59.180]  I'm worried.
[04:59.220 --> 04:59.840]  I'm worried.
[05:04.900 --> 05:08.680]  And they've been canceling classes left and right all week long since last week.
[05:08.860 --> 05:13.300]  And if you look at their webpage, they say that the university status is normal.
[05:13.540 --> 05:15.040]  University is operating normally.
[05:15.460 --> 05:18.660]  And I ask somebody, why in God's name does it say that when they're canceling everything?
[05:19.200 --> 05:21.740]  And that is simply the statement having to do with terrorism.
[05:21.960 --> 05:22.780]  They're normal.
[05:22.960 --> 05:24.480]  There are no alerts in progress.
[05:24.740 --> 05:27.400]  Everything is operating smoothly, except everything is closed.
[05:27.440 --> 05:29.100]  And it's complete mayhem and panic.
[05:29.200 --> 05:30.240]  And nobody can do anything.
[05:30.400 --> 05:31.480]  I'm not going to say what's cool.
[05:31.580 --> 05:32.380]  I don't want to incriminate them.
[05:32.480 --> 05:37.580]  But it's just we're obsessed with this readiness, except we're not ready for real life.
[05:38.000 --> 05:40.080]  You know, that's what I think is going on here.
[05:40.080 --> 05:42.460]  I still think you can't blame them for not having the resources.
[05:42.460 --> 05:48.660]  Okay, well, I can blame them for hoarding in grocery stores as if, you know, the snow is never going to melt.
[05:48.660 --> 05:58.000]  And they have to prepare and buy gallons and gallons of milk and, you know, all this massive amounts of price club size food.
[05:58.600 --> 06:00.640]  You know, it's not that big a deal.
[06:00.640 --> 06:02.240]  You can walk around in snow.
[06:02.400 --> 06:03.100]  You can get places.
[06:03.100 --> 06:04.060]  What if the snow never melts?
[06:04.140 --> 06:05.160]  What if the snow never melts?
[06:05.180 --> 06:06.620]  I mean, global warming is a myth, right?
[06:06.620 --> 06:08.440]  So, maybe it's just going to stay cold.
[06:08.520 --> 06:14.800]  But I see bare shells in stores as if there's some kind of calamity that we're never going to recover from.
[06:14.940 --> 06:17.760]  And if they just, you know, okay, get supplies for a few days.
[06:17.880 --> 06:20.540]  But, you know, most people have supplies for a few days already in their homes.
[06:20.680 --> 06:24.200]  So, I went to a store yesterday because I just wanted to buy one item.
[06:24.260 --> 06:27.260]  And I had to wait online half an hour because everybody's panicking.
[06:27.880 --> 06:29.360]  And, you know, snow does melt.
[06:29.720 --> 06:36.420]  And the other thing I was talking to Dot Red about earlier, you know, what is it that everybody is pictured as getting?
[06:36.620 --> 06:37.340]  In a snowstorm.
[06:37.600 --> 06:38.760]  Everyone lines up for this.
[06:39.040 --> 06:39.120]  Spam.
[06:39.400 --> 06:40.200]  Not spam, no.
[06:40.360 --> 06:41.280]  We get that all the time.
[06:41.700 --> 06:42.580]  No, snow shovels.
[06:42.700 --> 06:45.180]  Everyone is out to the hardware store getting snow shovels.
[06:45.480 --> 06:49.220]  And, you know, you would think that they've bought shovels before in their lives.
[06:49.220 --> 06:52.500]  If you ever have been through a snowstorm, you've needed a shovel to get out of it.
[06:52.660 --> 06:56.420]  You should be able to buy a shovel and never have to buy it again.
[06:56.520 --> 07:01.700]  Except it's like over the summer, somebody comes into your garage and steals all the shovels so you don't have them.
[07:01.780 --> 07:03.520]  And you have to buy them every single time it snows.
[07:03.660 --> 07:05.840]  I don't get any other way this could be happening all the time.
[07:05.940 --> 07:06.400]  And you know what?
[07:06.400 --> 07:07.900]  I can't find my shovel either, to be honest.
[07:08.020 --> 07:08.660]  I don't know where that went.
[07:09.620 --> 07:10.240]  There you go.
[07:10.260 --> 07:12.000]  I'm not saying there's a conspiracy here.
[07:12.020 --> 07:15.200]  I'm just saying that something really strange is going on.
[07:15.460 --> 07:18.060]  It's like socks disappearing in the dryer, except more serious.
[07:18.280 --> 07:20.240]  The shovel manufacturers have hired ninjas.
[07:20.240 --> 07:21.640]  Bernie, do you have a theory about this?
[07:22.500 --> 07:27.760]  Well, my theory is that the snow shovels just aren't made like they used to make them, and they fall apart after one use.
[07:27.860 --> 07:29.620]  Okay, do you remember ever throwing out a snow shovel?
[07:30.240 --> 07:31.900]  I have broken snow shovels before.
[07:32.060 --> 07:34.460]  I don't even know how you would throw out a snow shovel.
[07:34.540 --> 07:35.600]  What are you, stick it in the garbage can?
[07:35.600 --> 07:36.320]  It doesn't fit.
[07:36.480 --> 07:37.560]  I've never seen that happen.
[07:37.580 --> 07:44.820]  See, after, when it breaks, when the scoop part breaks off the handle, yes, you can fit both pieces into the trash can.
[07:45.420 --> 07:47.540]  Okay, well, I've never been down that road.
[07:47.540 --> 07:49.580]  I think something more nefarious is going on.
[07:49.660 --> 07:52.040]  I don't get why people have to keep buying that over and over again.
[07:52.040 --> 07:53.980]  A lot of shovels are made of plastic nowadays, right?
[07:54.060 --> 07:55.240]  So those are a lot less sturdy.
[07:55.740 --> 07:56.060]  Really?
[07:56.300 --> 07:56.760]  I think.
[07:56.960 --> 07:57.520]  I would assume so.
[07:57.520 --> 07:58.520]  I thought they're all made of metal.
[07:59.360 --> 07:59.860]  And wood.
[07:59.860 --> 08:01.140]  I've seen plastic snow shovels.
[08:01.240 --> 08:01.560]  Yeah.
[08:01.760 --> 08:02.680]  Okay, well, apparently...
[08:02.680 --> 08:06.040]  You know what, also the people who have snow shovels aren't going out to buy them.
[08:06.180 --> 08:08.480]  They're just staying at home, shoveling maybe.
[08:08.700 --> 08:08.960]  Uh-huh.
[08:09.200 --> 08:11.460]  Well, it just seems like everyone's always out getting these things.
[08:11.660 --> 08:14.780]  Well, maybe it's the, you know, the neighborhood teens that are getting shovels.
[08:14.780 --> 08:16.620]  Where were those people last time it snowed?
[08:16.740 --> 08:17.700]  How come they didn't get...
[08:17.700 --> 08:19.460]  Maybe they just moved to the area.
[08:20.040 --> 08:25.560]  All right, you know, we can talk about this all night, but we're not going to because we have other more important things to discuss.
[08:25.680 --> 08:31.940]  We're in the second week of our winter fundraiser, and to prove it, it's very winter outside here.
[08:31.940 --> 08:33.700]  See, we did this last week, and we have to do it again.
[08:33.860 --> 08:35.380]  Some people just have to do things more than once.
[08:35.440 --> 08:36.280]  Yeah, and guess what?
[08:36.300 --> 08:37.260]  We're not on next week.
[08:37.540 --> 08:38.560]  We're not on next week.
[08:38.560 --> 08:43.400]  So we have to do especially well this week if we want to be on the week after that.
[08:43.400 --> 08:45.540]  Not a threat, but just, you know, a statement of fact.
[08:45.680 --> 08:47.440]  But we have exciting news.
[08:47.440 --> 08:52.020]  We have some interesting things that have happened this week.
[08:52.300 --> 09:02.940]  And the most interesting thing, well, the particular thing that applies to tonight is the release of the 2009 Off the Hook Archive, which we do this every year.
[09:03.200 --> 09:21.780]  At the end of a year, we put together all the shows in full broadcast quality, 128K, 44 kilohertz, and we basically make that available to people who either subscribe to the package or who just want to get all the shows in high quality.
[09:22.100 --> 09:23.740]  Not the quality that we have online.
[09:23.900 --> 09:27.400]  That's okay quality, but it's not great quality.
[09:27.560 --> 09:30.840]  You can hear every tick in our voices.
[09:31.620 --> 09:34.900]  Yes, you can hear all the imperfections and some of the perfections as well.
[09:34.900 --> 09:37.920]  So, but basically, we've released that.
[09:38.040 --> 09:42.000]  And what we're doing tonight is offering that archive.
[09:43.220 --> 09:44.440]  Actually, we're offering two things.
[09:44.560 --> 09:49.280]  We're offering a partial archive and a full archive to people who pledge.
[09:49.940 --> 09:52.180]  In both cases, you get the most recent shows.
[09:52.180 --> 09:53.640]  You get the 2009 shows.
[09:55.040 --> 09:58.440]  And if you order the entire archive, you get 20 DVDs.
[09:58.660 --> 10:00.120]  20 DVDs, yeah.
[10:00.260 --> 10:00.760]  Oh, that's a lot.
[10:00.980 --> 10:01.580]  It's a lot.
[10:01.640 --> 10:02.200]  It's a lot of audio.
[10:02.420 --> 10:05.040]  You know what you can do with these quality files is you can listen.
[10:05.040 --> 10:09.680]  You can hear, you can listen to Bernier's and you can hear how the cell phone quality degrades over the years.
[10:09.700 --> 10:10.100]  That's right.
[10:10.400 --> 10:14.980]  Because if you just download it from our website, you'll hear you might, the degradation might be our fault.
[10:15.120 --> 10:18.040]  But you listen on these CDs, you know it's the telephone company's fault.
[10:18.600 --> 10:19.360]  Now, here's the thing.
[10:19.360 --> 10:34.440]  We've been doing Off the Hook since 1988 in one form or another with all kinds of people wandering in and out of here, telling all kinds of stories, sharing all sorts of tales of injustice and technological progress and experimentation and things like that.
[10:35.460 --> 10:37.620]  And it's a real time capsule.
[10:37.780 --> 10:48.060]  It's something that if you've just started listening to this show, it's fascinating to just kind of dive in almost at random and see the things that have happened over the course of our history.
[10:48.060 --> 10:52.780]  Isn't that what inspired our guest last week to write the story that he wrote?
[10:52.900 --> 10:53.940]  He listened to the archive.
[10:54.040 --> 10:58.400]  Ed Piskor, who did Whizzywig, the comic book or the graphic novel.
[10:58.880 --> 11:05.860]  He listened to our show over the years and came up with an amazing four book set of tales.
[11:06.140 --> 11:07.760]  The fourth book hasn't come out yet, but it will be amazing.
[11:08.440 --> 11:11.140]  And yeah, you know, there's all kinds of other things that could be inspired.
[11:11.280 --> 11:11.500]  Who knows?
[11:11.820 --> 11:14.240]  Paintings, architectural landmarks.
[11:14.240 --> 11:19.460]  Who knows what people could be inspired to do as a result of listening to our tales over the years.
[11:20.280 --> 11:22.000]  So anyway, what we're offering...
[11:22.000 --> 11:24.380]  First of all, it's really three packages we're offering here.
[11:24.680 --> 11:36.600]  Everybody who calls 212-209-2950 will get the brand new off-the-hook t-shirt, and that is available for a pledge of $25 and above.
[11:36.600 --> 11:39.260]  Now, the brand new off-the-hook t-shirt is designed by Rob T.
[11:39.400 --> 11:40.780]  Firefly, who's not here tonight.
[11:41.100 --> 11:42.260]  He snowed in somewhere.
[11:43.480 --> 11:49.640]  And it's available in sizes, I think, small to triple XL, which we never offered before.
[11:49.740 --> 11:51.900]  We never offered sizes in the off-the-hook t-shirts.
[11:52.200 --> 11:56.780]  And the other off-the-hook t-shirt graphic was something completely different.
[11:57.060 --> 11:58.380]  It doesn't look anything like this.
[11:58.500 --> 12:01.080]  So when you do pledge, please tell them what size you want.
[12:01.360 --> 12:05.720]  Yes, especially if they don't ask, because if that doesn't happen.
[12:05.720 --> 12:11.440]  And in fact, if you called last week and don't recall giving your size, feel free to email us and tell us your size.
[12:11.560 --> 12:23.040]  And when we get around to mailing it out, which will be probably a month or two down the road as we collect all the names of people who actually pay their pledges, we'll make a note and attach it to that.
[12:23.800 --> 12:26.200]  So OTH at 2620.com is our email address.
[12:27.160 --> 12:30.860]  But every pledge 25 and above gets that brand new t-shirt.
[12:30.860 --> 12:39.020]  Now, this t-shirt is a picture of a touch-tone phone, and it's got blue and white on black background.
[12:39.720 --> 12:43.720]  It basically just says off-the-hook where the keypad would be on the phone.
[12:43.720 --> 12:44.760]  The phone is off-the-hook.
[12:44.840 --> 12:46.320]  In fact, it looks a little like a face.
[12:47.260 --> 12:53.640]  You know, how the receiver, if you put the receiver down, facing up, like the two parts of the receiver are eyes.
[12:54.240 --> 12:55.200]  It looks like a face.
[12:55.200 --> 12:55.580]  You'll see.
[12:56.220 --> 12:59.820]  And it gives the name of the station and the name of the show, the website, all of that.
[13:00.040 --> 13:03.420]  And it's, you know, it's an old kind of style phone.
[13:03.700 --> 13:04.040]  Yeah.
[13:04.440 --> 13:04.720]  Retro.
[13:04.900 --> 13:05.580]  Old desk phone.
[13:05.940 --> 13:07.360]  So Retro is in, I think.
[13:07.600 --> 13:08.880]  I think Retro is in again.
[13:09.040 --> 13:11.640]  People shouldn't take advice from me, but I think it's in.
[13:13.100 --> 13:16.420]  So 212-209-2950, you'll get the t-shirt for Pledge 25.
[13:16.600 --> 13:23.740]  But if you pledge 75, you'll get the 21st Century collection of Off the Hook.
[13:23.740 --> 13:35.140]  What that means is every single program on a separate DVD from the years 2000 to the years 2009, that's 10 years of Off the Hook.
[13:35.960 --> 13:37.440]  Each DVD is one year.
[13:37.580 --> 13:38.580]  So 2000-2001.
[13:38.820 --> 13:39.960]  Now, I know what you're going to say.
[13:40.620 --> 13:42.980]  The year 2000 is not technically the 21st Century.
[13:43.120 --> 13:43.680]  I know that.
[13:43.840 --> 13:47.760]  It just looks a lot better on paper and it's easier to describe it that way.
[13:47.820 --> 13:52.560]  If you're offended by the fact that the year 2000 comes, you don't have to listen to it.
[13:52.560 --> 13:55.300]  Yeah, you can boycott that particular disc if you don't like that.
[13:55.520 --> 13:56.400]  That's for a pledge of $75.
[13:56.800 --> 14:02.340]  You'll get 10 years of Off the Hook archives plus the t-shirt.
[14:02.520 --> 14:06.500]  And as a bonus, we're throwing in the last two years of 2600 Magazine.
[14:07.100 --> 14:07.500]  Yeah.
[14:07.680 --> 14:08.400]  What do you think about that?
[14:08.920 --> 14:10.160]  That's like a lot of stuff.
[14:10.940 --> 14:12.760]  You could buy this online.
[14:12.760 --> 14:14.140]  And people do buy this online.
[14:14.140 --> 14:18.060]  And pay at least twice that for all of this.
[14:18.140 --> 14:20.100]  I think it's at least twice that if you add all that together.
[14:20.100 --> 14:27.780]  You know, the amazing thing, if you bought it online and paid twice or whatever it is, did we say it's $75?
[14:28.780 --> 14:32.280]  If you pay that, you still won't get the radio station.
[14:32.340 --> 14:32.920]  Yeah, that's true.
[14:33.060 --> 14:33.440]  That's true.
[14:33.560 --> 14:34.200]  Or the t-shirt.
[14:34.320 --> 14:36.380]  And you can't get the t-shirt for any price because we don't sell that.
[14:36.600 --> 14:49.760]  Now, for a pledge of $125, and this is the top one we're offering tonight, you'll get all the DVDs, all 20 DVDs, 20 DVDs from 1988 to 2009, every show that we've done in full broadcast quality, all right?
[14:49.880 --> 14:51.480]  It's really... it's quite a deal.
[14:51.560 --> 14:52.760]  I can't even count the number of hours.
[14:52.860 --> 14:55.480]  Figure each DVD has about 40 hours of audio.
[14:56.100 --> 14:57.060]  So that's a lot.
[14:57.140 --> 14:58.380]  And that's a lot of history in there.
[14:58.920 --> 14:59.820]  So you'll get that.
[14:59.940 --> 15:03.160]  Plus, you'll get the two years of back issues of 2600 Magazine.
[15:03.800 --> 15:08.140]  And you'll get the brand new off-the-hook t-shirt in the size of your choice.
[15:08.260 --> 15:11.660]  So, you know, that's the best deal I can think of.
[15:11.700 --> 15:12.720]  It really is pretty good.
[15:12.720 --> 15:14.620]  But we have to get those phone calls lit up.
[15:14.960 --> 15:16.120]  No calls coming in right now.
[15:16.220 --> 15:17.640]  212-209-2950.
[15:17.780 --> 15:19.460]  We have some excerpts we'd like to play for you.
[15:19.580 --> 15:21.240]  And I think they're kind of interesting and historical.
[15:22.260 --> 15:27.140]  But before we do, I'd like to see at least one phone call come in, prove that people are out there.
[15:27.300 --> 15:30.860]  And the truly amazing thing that you get with all this is the radio station itself.
[15:31.000 --> 15:31.900]  You keep us on the air.
[15:32.000 --> 15:34.340]  You keep the rest of WBAI on the air.
[15:34.380 --> 15:38.580]  And I know we say this every week that we're fundraising, which seems like it's almost every week.
[15:38.580 --> 15:47.120]  But it really is amazing that the radio station has been able to stay on the air for all this time, thanks to the support of you, the listener.
[15:47.700 --> 15:49.440]  And please help us stay on the air.
[15:49.440 --> 15:52.140]  Would you prefer if we had commercials every few minutes?
[15:52.180 --> 15:53.160]  Because we could do that.
[15:53.280 --> 15:53.860]  We could have commercials.
[15:53.940 --> 15:55.360]  We're in the middle of the commercial band.
[15:55.360 --> 16:00.900]  We could switch to a commercial license and break for product placement or just straight-out advertising.
[16:01.120 --> 16:05.740]  But then the problem with that is we wouldn't really be able to, you know, say bad things about these companies.
[16:05.860 --> 16:13.120]  We would have to say how bad Verizon is or what a rip-off Apple products are or how certain...
[16:13.120 --> 16:15.400]  Come on, name some technology that's annoyed you recently.
[16:15.560 --> 16:16.960]  Something that's specific.
[16:17.460 --> 16:18.200]  Bernie, anything?
[16:19.120 --> 16:19.580]  Google.
[16:19.880 --> 16:23.600]  We say a lot of things about the company that says don't do evil.
[16:23.820 --> 16:24.500]  Google, yes.
[16:24.580 --> 16:26.960]  Google just released it.
[16:27.420 --> 16:29.220]  Let's not talk about what they did.
[16:29.520 --> 16:31.100]  But I think it's annoying.
[16:31.100 --> 16:32.900]  I was about to say that I find it very annoying.
[16:32.900 --> 16:34.120]  I think Google itself is annoying.
[16:34.260 --> 16:35.740]  Well, it's useful.
[16:36.420 --> 16:37.720]  They released something called Buzz.
[16:37.880 --> 16:38.820]  They teamed up with the NSA.
[16:39.320 --> 16:39.760]  Oh, great.
[16:39.880 --> 16:40.500]  You know, this is wonderful.
[16:40.760 --> 16:45.080]  We're really going into the dark ages here.
[16:45.280 --> 16:46.800]  And, you know, Google never really advertises.
[16:46.880 --> 16:48.980]  I saw they had an ad during the Super Bowl or something.
[16:49.100 --> 16:49.660]  I heard about that.
[16:49.700 --> 16:50.120]  They did.
[16:50.240 --> 16:52.660]  Yeah, but you don't see them advertising on television very often.
[16:52.680 --> 16:54.140]  Well, that was, I think, a first for them.
[16:54.360 --> 16:57.860]  So they probably wouldn't advertise in our commercial show if we were taking ads.
[16:57.860 --> 16:57.960]  Why not?
[16:59.100 --> 17:03.180]  A show of this nature would probably cost peanuts for a large corporation like them.
[17:03.740 --> 17:05.760]  And they could, you know, whatever it would cost.
[17:06.160 --> 17:08.020]  What does it take to run the show?
[17:08.120 --> 17:09.900]  We're asking a few people to pledge $125.
[17:10.520 --> 17:17.540]  But if they did advertise, we wouldn't be able to say certain things without them coming down on our bosses.
[17:18.200 --> 17:19.080]  Right, that's what I'm saying.
[17:19.140 --> 17:19.680]  We're cheap.
[17:19.800 --> 17:22.000]  They could afford to keep us off the air.
[17:22.040 --> 17:22.240]  Got right.
[17:22.580 --> 17:26.960]  No one seems to be mentioning the worst case scenario, which we mentioned a couple times.
[17:27.040 --> 17:31.680]  And we even, you know, illustrated for people during the April Fool's joke.
[17:31.680 --> 17:32.580]  Oh, the country music thing.
[17:32.620 --> 17:35.300]  You know, the station could easily just disappear.
[17:35.500 --> 17:35.740]  Mm-hmm.
[17:35.860 --> 17:36.160]  Of course.
[17:36.160 --> 17:42.320]  And, you know, it's great that, you know, people are able to buy this stuff for, say, half the price what you normally will get online or anywhere.
[17:42.820 --> 17:46.220]  And not only are you getting it for half the price, but now you're getting extra bang for your buck.
[17:46.500 --> 17:49.840]  You're getting a radio station and you're getting to keep all of us on the air.
[17:49.920 --> 17:51.680]  212-209-2950.
[17:51.840 --> 17:52.820]  I see there's one call on the line.
[17:52.920 --> 17:53.240]  That's great.
[17:53.360 --> 17:54.680]  It doesn't mean you're off the hook.
[17:54.720 --> 17:55.320]  No pun intended.
[17:55.320 --> 18:03.920]  If you're out there and you're thinking of calling, you want to pledge for the DVDs, we have them available at two levels, 75 and 125, or just a t-shirt for 25.
[18:04.120 --> 18:05.660]  212-209-2950.
[18:05.660 --> 18:06.600]  Please give us a call.
[18:06.900 --> 18:10.100]  What we're going to do is play the first excerpt.
[18:10.720 --> 18:13.520]  And this is something that was fairly recent.
[18:13.940 --> 18:14.680]  Actually, you know what?
[18:15.040 --> 18:15.440]  It's...
[18:15.440 --> 18:16.540]  Actually, it wasn't that recent.
[18:16.640 --> 18:17.400]  It was almost six years ago.
[18:17.480 --> 18:18.480]  But it feels like yesterday.
[18:18.980 --> 18:23.880]  I'm referring to when I had sort of a run-in at the Republican National Convention.
[18:23.880 --> 18:24.800]  This is the show.
[18:24.940 --> 18:44.540]  This is the portion of the show where I got back to the station after being rounded up on the street with a bunch of other people who were just standing there and held, held against our will, first in a pier, a huge building by the pier on the west side on the Hudson River,
[18:44.700 --> 18:46.480]  and then in the tombs downtown.
[18:47.480 --> 18:48.720]  And it was hell.
[18:48.820 --> 18:49.480]  It really was hell.
[18:50.000 --> 18:54.120]  You'll hear my reaction to that and also you hear some audio excerpts.
[18:54.200 --> 19:10.420]  And it just gives you, or it gives me anyway, a sense of how important this particular show has been in talking about things that are going on and in, I guess, describing how life's little stories can really turn into something significant.
[19:10.500 --> 19:22.440]  And we've had all kinds of interesting things happen to us over the years, talking about Bernie and talking about fiber optic and Kevin Mitnick and the people in this room, all kinds of fascinating tales and things that reflect on society and technology.
[19:22.860 --> 19:25.740]  Please give us a call 212-209-2950.
[19:25.760 --> 19:26.600]  Pledge your support.
[19:26.780 --> 19:28.160]  Keep stories like this coming your way.
[19:28.280 --> 19:38.280]  Actually, that's the wrong thing to say because this is a tale of injustice and I wouldn't want this to happen again, not to me or to anybody else, but the important thing is we had the voice to speak out and to let people know what was going on.
[19:38.440 --> 19:38.820]  Take a listen.
[19:39.540 --> 19:43.680]  After that, just kind of like wandering around the city, taking in things.
[19:43.800 --> 19:49.740]  I mean, yeah, I was only in there for less than two days, but it still is a very traumatizing experience.
[19:49.820 --> 19:53.440]  You can't forget that there are people in far worse conditions.
[19:53.580 --> 19:55.140]  You can't forget what happened in Russia.
[19:55.140 --> 19:58.420]  You can't forget people that are in prison for a very long period of time.
[19:58.440 --> 20:02.540]  You can't forget people that don't have the benefit of having a thousand other inmates cheering them on.
[20:03.500 --> 20:23.460]  And with all of that, with all of that in mind, to still be traumatized makes you realize what a traumatizing experience it is, what a traumatizing experience it's meant to be, and how these dehumanizing conditions are used as a weapon by these cops to put people in line.
[20:26.800 --> 20:29.020]  And it got to a lot of us.
[20:30.300 --> 20:31.720]  Of course, the story isn't over.
[20:31.980 --> 20:35.480]  We're going to be doing all kinds of things in the future with this.
[20:35.540 --> 20:42.300]  We have all kinds of evidence, all kinds of documentation, and legal teams are moving forward.
[20:42.740 --> 20:43.660]  And that's a good thing.
[20:43.840 --> 20:49.200]  I would like to issue, though, a challenge to anyone out there.
[20:49.260 --> 20:51.840]  First of all, I do want to hear from anybody who has swept up.
[20:51.840 --> 20:52.780]  I do want to hear from you.
[20:52.900 --> 20:56.920]  I think it's important that you express yourself and get it out.
[20:57.640 --> 20:59.540]  If not on the radio, then to somebody.
[21:00.680 --> 21:04.240]  But I'd also like to issue a challenge to cops out there.
[21:04.940 --> 21:07.500]  Now, I met a lot of cops in the past week.
[21:08.160 --> 21:10.280]  More than I think I've ever wanted to meet in my life.
[21:10.440 --> 21:12.520]  But some of them were decent people.
[21:12.660 --> 21:13.600]  Some of them were very nice.
[21:13.700 --> 21:14.600]  Some of them were sympathetic.
[21:14.980 --> 21:20.040]  Some of them would actually loosen your handcuffs when they were too tight and the blood was being cut off.
[21:20.160 --> 21:23.240]  Some of them would actually bring an aspirin to somebody whose head was splitting.
[21:23.840 --> 21:28.520]  Or some of them would actually let you use the bathroom if you couldn't hold it in any longer.
[21:29.160 --> 21:32.060]  I would say most ignored you.
[21:32.220 --> 21:34.480]  Most just simply walked on by like they didn't hear a thing.
[21:34.580 --> 21:35.980]  But there were some decent people there.
[21:36.260 --> 21:36.840]  You know what?
[21:36.840 --> 21:39.820]  I don't care if you're decent or not decent or whatever you think you are.
[21:39.880 --> 21:41.200]  If you're a cop, I'd like to hear from you.
[21:41.220 --> 21:50.900]  I'd like to hear an explanation as to how these orders came down to sweep people up off the street like it's Brazil or something where you sweep up the homeless and dump them in the ocean.
[21:51.620 --> 21:53.740]  I'd like to know where did that come from?
[21:53.900 --> 21:56.820]  What was going through your mind when you were given these orders?
[21:57.000 --> 22:03.400]  When you were arresting people that absolutely you could tell were not part of something illegal?
[22:04.040 --> 22:09.180]  People walking down the street, people coming home from work, people delivering food, people trying to find the subway.
[22:09.740 --> 22:11.480]  Yes, there were demonstrators too.
[22:11.800 --> 22:13.140]  Were they violent demonstrators?
[22:13.240 --> 22:16.800]  Were they doing something illegal other than marching down the street or even a sidewalk?
[22:17.820 --> 22:20.700]  I'd like to hear how you justify that.
[22:23.340 --> 22:23.840]  All right.
[22:24.580 --> 22:29.440]  One more thing I just want to play and then we're going to have somebody on the phone who's been waiting.
[22:30.180 --> 22:33.040]  I was able to get a phone call out when I was in Pier 57.
[22:34.000 --> 22:35.960]  First of all, I had all kinds of things on me.
[22:37.520 --> 22:41.920]  They didn't really do a good job getting things off of our person.
[22:41.920 --> 22:52.540]  So, what I figured out was that if you waited online for the bathroom, the porta-potties that they had set up there, it was a long line, but if you waited online, first of all, you could get your handcuffs clipped.
[22:52.640 --> 22:56.280]  They were the plastic kind, which I think are pretty damn uncomfortable.
[22:57.260 --> 22:58.420]  And they were very tight.
[22:59.120 --> 23:01.860]  Having them clipped alone would be a relief.
[23:02.260 --> 23:09.760]  But going into the porta-potty, I would be able to use my two phones and my camera, my digital camera, which I still had on me.
[23:09.760 --> 23:12.540]  So, I was able to use all of those things.
[23:12.680 --> 23:20.080]  I made a phone call out from inside that thing to another phone of mine and just left a message.
[23:20.220 --> 23:27.620]  Now, most of it got garbled because I was using Verizon and Verizon Wireless apparently doesn't penetrate prisons very well.
[23:28.360 --> 23:32.820]  But this is part of my observations at that particular point.
[23:34.220 --> 23:40.040]  New message Tuesday, August 31st, 1149, p.m.
[23:40.280 --> 23:46.700]  Hey, this is Emmanuel, I'm calling from the porta-potty of the detention cell, Pier 57.
[23:47.660 --> 23:57.280]  They took us here on a bar of New York City bus, and they brought us into this huge area where there's people lined up to be processed.
[23:59.000 --> 24:02.420]  There's other people in other cells that cheer everybody who comes in.
[24:03.080 --> 24:11.860]  Then they put you in this massive room with hundreds and hundreds of people with your hands tied behind your back, excruciating.
[24:12.920 --> 24:15.920]  The only way to get that taken care of is to wait online.
[24:17.280 --> 24:19.260]  This is where the signal kind of breaks up for a little while.
[24:20.280 --> 24:24.040]  Basically, I'm discussing what it was like to wait online and all that kind of thing.
[24:24.280 --> 24:25.620]  And what happens...
[24:26.460 --> 24:41.140]  I'm not sure if this is picked up here or a little later on, but what happens is this amazing cheer starts to... or chant begins across the prison, and you can hear people just chanting, let us go.
[24:44.950 --> 24:45.350]  people...
[24:45.430 --> 24:49.150]  we can hear some people show up.
[24:54.250 --> 24:54.650]  Unbelievable.
[24:55.370 --> 25:01.250]  But I asked you to take some pictures, and hopefully we'll get some pictures before I should go.
[25:01.410 --> 25:01.970]  I'm taking too long.
[25:02.130 --> 25:02.890]  I'm going to port them out of here.
[25:04.750 --> 25:10.010]  I'm going to turn my phone off so that they and I are able to get my phone numbers.
[25:14.810 --> 25:18.990]  Okay, and that's what that message conveyed, pretty much.
[25:19.070 --> 25:31.850]  Not anything really earth-shattering, but I was trying everything I could to get out to the outside world and to just bypass the system however they set it up.
[25:32.410 --> 25:35.430]  Now, that's actually one of the very short thing.
[25:35.530 --> 25:43.970]  I was able to hold a digital camera up to that very same port-a-potty and record outside, and I think it captured the chant just a little bit better.
[25:44.150 --> 25:45.590]  It was pretty much done at the same time.
[25:45.690 --> 25:49.790]  You hear it starting off kind of low and then getting louder and louder.
[26:14.130 --> 26:17.610]  And there were about a thousand people chanting let us go at that point.
[26:17.910 --> 26:34.090]  Okay, we're joined on the phone now by Shapeshifter, otherwise known as Terrence, who four years ago at the Republican Convention in 2000 was held on half a million dollars bail for walking down the street and talking on a cell phone.
[26:34.870 --> 26:35.570]  Terrence, are you with us?
[26:35.910 --> 26:36.470]  Yes, I am.
[26:37.070 --> 26:42.730]  Well, you know, it's kind of funny how four years ago it was you and this year it was me along with a whole lot of others.
[26:43.350 --> 26:45.550]  Of course, I didn't suffer nearly as much as you did.
[26:45.550 --> 26:52.890]  you were held for almost a week and held as one of the co-conspirators, I guess, one of the masterminds behind God knows what.
[26:53.190 --> 26:54.850]  Alleged ringleader and sidekick.
[26:55.290 --> 26:55.550]  Yeah.
[26:55.990 --> 27:00.830]  The thing that's inspiring in your case was that you actually were able to win.
[27:01.050 --> 27:05.390]  You not only were able to have them drop the charges but you were able to...
[27:05.390 --> 27:07.390]  How far did you manage to get with them?
[27:09.190 --> 27:27.590]  Well, first my initial trial I was convicted of two very minor charges and since they're only misdemeanors, I was able to appeal that and three months down the line I was able to have a trial and the judge threw it out before the jury could decide.
[27:28.710 --> 27:33.770]  He said that there wasn't enough evidence even to go further on and he threw it out of court.
[27:34.730 --> 27:40.190]  He said that the prosecution's evidence was underwhelming to say the least.
[27:40.850 --> 27:45.390]  So, yeah, and certainly that's the case here as well.
[27:45.670 --> 27:54.810]  Yeah, actually I wanted to mention that I was actually one of the many who was not convicted during the RNC trials.
[27:55.010 --> 28:00.350]  They arrested over 400 people and less than 5% of people were convicted of any charges at all.
[28:01.670 --> 28:03.430]  They're all minor charges.
[28:04.270 --> 28:13.810]  It seems like it's the same basic tactic, just get people off the street, you know, let the convention happen and then try to forget about it afterwards.
[28:14.350 --> 28:14.450]  Absolutely.
[28:14.770 --> 28:18.830]  I think, you know, what happened, did you know how many people were arrested total for the RNC in Philadelphia?
[28:20.190 --> 28:20.590]  420.
[28:20.910 --> 28:21.310]  420.
[28:21.550 --> 28:23.090]  Well, this time it's more than double that.
[28:24.250 --> 28:26.010]  Actually, quite a bit more than that.
[28:27.130 --> 28:28.070]  My math is off.
[28:28.150 --> 28:28.930]  More than four times.
[28:30.050 --> 28:31.770]  My math is four times?
[28:31.930 --> 28:32.150]  Thank you.
[28:41.110 --> 28:44.170]  I don't think I don't think we're ever going to see a Republican National Convention in this city again.
[28:44.590 --> 28:45.570]  I should hope not.
[28:45.790 --> 28:48.250]  And I think this may have also been the death knell for the Olympics.
[28:48.910 --> 28:49.670]  Let's hope so.
[28:52.230 --> 28:54.870]  Anyway, Terrence, I do want to take some phone calls.
[28:54.870 --> 29:04.570]  I want to briefly ask you, you were involved in another project during this Republican Convention that involved monitoring the police.
[29:04.650 --> 29:05.510]  Can you tell us something about that?
[29:05.910 --> 29:14.670]  I was part of this group called the New York Comms Collective and we were sending out text message updates to protesters at the height of the protest we had.
[29:14.830 --> 29:18.650]  Over 900 people signed up to our update list.
[29:18.910 --> 29:20.550]  Including quite a number of cops, I would imagine.
[29:20.710 --> 29:24.050]  Oh, I'm sure, and media and a lot of protesters.
[29:25.290 --> 29:30.130]  And I was moderating police.
[29:30.750 --> 29:31.210]  Uh-huh.
[29:31.790 --> 29:34.650]  You were basically listening to scanners and reporting what you were hearing.
[29:34.890 --> 29:36.170]  What were some of the things that you heard?
[29:36.550 --> 29:39.230]  Some of the things, well, they were very disorganized.
[29:39.810 --> 29:45.330]  One of the things, the more interesting things, they were talking over each other a whole lot, so it's kind of hard to differentiate.
[29:45.710 --> 29:47.130]  The police were talking over each other?
[29:47.270 --> 29:51.270]  Yes, they kept on announcing that they were on the air and not saying afterwards.
[29:51.310 --> 29:58.610]  So that happened like every two or three transmissions was some lieutenant saying this is lieutenant so-and-so on the air.
[30:00.410 --> 30:03.230]  What, they just felt the need to do a station identification or something?
[30:03.310 --> 30:06.630]  Yeah, they just, you know, they were feeling lonely that day.
[30:06.730 --> 30:07.210]  I don't know.
[30:07.450 --> 30:08.830]  They weren't that busy that day.
[30:08.970 --> 30:18.950]  But the more interesting things we found on this other frequency, which was more the inspectors and the undercover cops who were dispatching the mobile field forces.
[30:18.950 --> 30:20.810]  They were following protesters around.
[30:21.170 --> 30:29.470]  One of the things that they were doing is they were very nervous any time legal observers were gathering because they thought that was an indication that something was going to happen.
[30:29.730 --> 30:36.290]  So they were paying very close attention to them and that's probably one of the reasons why quite a few of them got swept up.
[30:37.350 --> 30:41.130]  Were there any priceless remarks that you overheard?
[30:42.470 --> 30:48.570]  Well, there's quite a few protesters who were injured and being arrested preemptively.
[30:49.870 --> 30:52.330]  There's lots of reports of unconscious people.
[30:54.550 --> 30:58.670]  no indication of how they became unconscious but just that they were unconscious.
[30:59.970 --> 31:01.010]  But they called them people.
[31:01.130 --> 31:07.690]  When we were in the tombs, they would chain us together in groups of five to be transported from one place to another.
[31:07.790 --> 31:08.910]  And you never knew where you were.
[31:09.090 --> 31:09.950]  It was such a labyrinth.
[31:10.330 --> 31:13.270]  But basically, they would refer to us as bodies.
[31:13.570 --> 31:14.850]  They would never refer to us as people.
[31:15.610 --> 31:17.450]  I got five bodies coming down the hall.
[31:17.590 --> 31:23.350]  I was like, good God, what a horrible way to live, to express yourself.
[31:23.730 --> 31:32.690]  And, you know, I got to say, this didn't do very much to weld citizen and police relations.
[31:32.870 --> 31:37.290]  I went out of there with a lot of bitterness, a lot of bad feelings towards them.
[31:38.130 --> 31:42.410]  Now, Redhack, you lent your scanner for this purpose.
[31:42.790 --> 31:43.470]  Yeah, I did.
[31:43.570 --> 31:49.270]  I have a ham radio that can wideband receive.
[31:49.730 --> 31:51.090]  But you got at Dayton, I believe.
[31:51.210 --> 31:51.490]  I did.
[31:51.770 --> 31:52.650]  At Bernie S's behest.
[31:53.550 --> 32:00.510]  Just by pressing two buttons on it when you turn it on, it can do wideband reception, which, among other things, can pick up police frequencies.
[32:01.210 --> 32:03.250]  And that's going to be the final word on that, Redhack.
[32:03.530 --> 32:05.810]  Nice appearance there back in 2004.
[32:08.070 --> 32:09.930]  Yeah, that's something.
[32:10.730 --> 32:13.750]  It rivets me to this day to just think of that whole experience.
[32:14.070 --> 32:16.950]  I can't believe that we had four more years of George Bush after that.
[32:17.890 --> 32:28.370]  Yeah, but regardless of that, it's just this goes to show how this radio station is so important because we are able to bring stories like that to the public attention.
[32:28.950 --> 32:31.150]  And I think that matters.
[32:31.590 --> 32:35.490]  Without this voice, we probably wouldn't have ever heard about these kinds of things.
[32:35.490 --> 32:38.650]  Yeah, and it wasn't just, you know, it wasn't just our show that was covering this.
[32:38.710 --> 32:40.090]  The whole station was on it.
[32:40.090 --> 32:45.870]  The whole station gets together at times like that and lets the world know what's really happening in the streets.
[32:46.070 --> 32:58.730]  And, you know, it was kind of surreal watching it all happen right in front of me, literally standing on a sidewalk and all of a sudden realizing that you were being arrested for standing on a sidewalk and being able to hold on to all my equipment surreptitiously.
[32:58.730 --> 33:14.830]  I had a phone in my sock and I was able to keep my camera hidden and I got somebody inside the pier who had loosened their handcuffs to start taking some pictures for me and it was a real kind of study in how you would react in a situation like that, how much you'd try to get away with.
[33:14.910 --> 33:29.270]  I mean, I was standing there in the porta potty taking pictures from inside of what was going on outside and I just happened to catch that amazing chant, making phone calls, you know, and just trying to get away with as much as possible and observing as much as possible,
[33:29.510 --> 33:38.630]  calling the radio station, going live on the air, and at the same time being told by the police that I wasn't a journalist because, and that's why I was being arrested because I wasn't an NYPD credential journalist.
[33:38.830 --> 33:48.150]  It was the most Kafka-ish tale that I had lived in that year, certainly, and it's just one of a whole lot of different stories that you can get on this archive.
[33:48.350 --> 33:49.710]  212-209-2950...
[33:49.710 --> 33:57.430]  I'm sorry, 212-209-2950, call us and support the station, get the archive, get all these stories and amazing bits of history.
[33:57.990 --> 34:15.710]  Let's say the number again more slowly is 212-209-2950 and point out that you don't get these stories on CNN, you don't get them on NBC, you don't get them anywhere but WBAI, and now you can have copies of all these stories if you pledge 212-209-2950.
[34:15.950 --> 34:33.730]  I find what's weird, and I'm sure, Bernie, you can back me up on this, that we just go about living our normal lives, yet all these things happen to us as we live our normal lives, and having this particular forum to be able to express ourselves is so valuable because we're able to share these experiences.
[34:33.910 --> 34:36.690]  And sometimes we just seem to get into it more than other people.
[34:36.710 --> 34:41.630]  I don't know if we're moths drawn to the flame or if we just are more observant.
[34:41.790 --> 34:49.650]  Bernie, perhaps you are, but it just seems like these things happen to us a lot, and I don't know where we'd be without this particular forum to let people know about it.
[34:50.050 --> 34:55.590]  I personally can say that we live interesting lives, but lots of people live interesting lives.
[34:55.590 --> 35:07.010]  We just happen to be fortunate enough to have this forum, WBAI, to share these really interesting experiences with people, which have happened to a lot of other people as well.
[35:07.530 --> 35:18.950]  My experience like safe-shifter and yourself being locked up by the police, in my case for a little longer, was considerably less traumatic.
[35:18.950 --> 35:24.970]  It was extremely traumatic, but it was less traumatic because I had a voice.
[35:25.190 --> 35:29.350]  I was not completely isolated like most people are when they're incarcerated.
[35:29.550 --> 35:50.610]  I had a voice on WBAI, and thousands, probably tens of thousands, maybe more people listened to my travails while I went through a tour of the federal prison system, and it made a lot of people very aware of things that I myself wasn't aware of before this happened.
[35:51.010 --> 36:10.450]  So I really encourage listeners to call 212-209-2950, and get the entire archives of Off the Hook, which is a really amazing resource that, as you noted earlier, has inspired people to write graphic novels and do all kinds of other interesting things.
[36:10.590 --> 36:21.430]  It's really an amazing time machine of not just things that happened to us, but just the whole development of technology, communications technology, and how it affects individuals, society.
[36:21.430 --> 36:24.770]  it's really a rich resource that I think people should take advantage of.
[36:25.370 --> 36:26.250]  People might take
[36:29.610 --> 36:38.110]  this kind of thing for granted, just go through life and hear about these sorts of stories and say, oh, well, nothing changes and nothing bad will ever happen as a result of this.
[36:38.170 --> 36:53.250]  But if it isn't for forms like this, these kinds of actions that, like the excerpt we just played, we go unfettered, and people may not really even know how bad it really was, and there wouldn't be any outrage about it, like, for what happened with Bernie or what happened with Kevin Mitnick and so on.
[36:53.430 --> 36:59.070]  The great thing about WBAI is it's basically an uncensored speaker box for thought.
[36:59.830 --> 37:01.650]  There's no commercial interest involved.
[37:02.270 --> 37:04.990]  There's nobody telling you what to say, what to do.
[37:05.490 --> 37:14.690]  It's just the hosts and the guests on the shows doing, you know, what they think needs to be done and saying what they think needs to be said.
[37:14.810 --> 37:18.970]  And I think that alone, you know, is worth the cost of the station.
[37:19.930 --> 37:24.850]  Premiums aside, I mean, you know, if you call in a new pledge, there are great premiums that you can have.
[37:24.990 --> 37:33.410]  You can listen to, you know, a lot of the history of, like Bernie said, of computing and hacking and communications, but you get the station.
[37:33.610 --> 37:37.230]  And that's really the most important thing, and that's really the reason you should be pledging.
[37:37.330 --> 37:39.470]  And primarily, this is a technology show.
[37:39.590 --> 37:42.150]  People might be asking, okay, what's all this political stuff going on?
[37:43.090 --> 37:45.070]  But, you know, politics is a part of life.
[37:45.070 --> 37:47.330]  You wind up going through life.
[37:47.330 --> 37:53.370]  You make observations and things happen to you, and you have to share these stories and give other people the opportunity to share stories as well.
[37:53.490 --> 37:57.090]  And that's what we try to do here at this station and on this show.
[37:58.070 --> 38:04.550]  And like we've been saying, interesting things happen to all of us, and it's great to be able to share that and to have this particular forum.
[38:04.630 --> 38:07.810]  Now, we have a couple of calls on the line now, 212-209-2950.
[38:08.190 --> 38:10.010]  We have a total of 325.
[38:10.010 --> 38:14.010]  We want to thank those people for getting us that high, but we have to get much higher than that this hour.
[38:14.730 --> 38:16.750]  So, what we're offering is fantastic.
[38:16.750 --> 38:18.030]  It really is incredible.
[38:18.030 --> 38:24.350]  We're offering a full set of all of the shows that we have done from 1988 to 2009.
[38:24.350 --> 38:25.530]  There was so much history in that.
[38:25.590 --> 38:26.630]  There's the whole Bernie S.
[38:26.730 --> 38:30.470]  saga where he was sent to prison literally for nothing.
[38:30.910 --> 38:39.310]  Same thing with Kevin Mitnick and fiber optic, but there's all kinds of other things, too, not just the social issues, but the technological issues.
[38:39.410 --> 38:41.030]  You hear how the phone systems have changed.
[38:41.170 --> 38:42.930]  You hear how the internet has been developed.
[38:43.090 --> 38:46.030]  You hear all kinds of special guests that have come in over the years.
[38:46.170 --> 38:47.950]  You'll hear an incredible amount of things.
[38:48.010 --> 38:52.870]  As for a pledge, $125, you get 21 years of Off the Hook.
[38:52.990 --> 39:00.550]  You get 20 DVDs, plus you get the last two years of 2600 magazine, the Hacker Quarterly, the magazine that's behind all of this.
[39:00.810 --> 39:07.750]  And you'll get the brand new, newly designed, Off the Hook t-shirt, which really looks smashing.
[39:07.990 --> 39:11.290]  And no one's wearing them yet because they're still being made, they're still being produced.
[39:11.970 --> 39:16.050]  And that's something that is really a lot of fun.
[39:16.170 --> 39:18.190]  212-209-2950.
[39:18.570 --> 39:22.250]  Let's make those calls light up because we have another excerpt we want to go to.
[39:22.310 --> 39:24.390]  We want to have enough time to play it.
[39:24.410 --> 39:24.630]  Right, Hacker?
[39:24.630 --> 39:28.270]  You know, you've got the history with the show and the technology and all that.
[39:28.330 --> 39:30.810]  You also have observations of different places around the world.
[39:31.790 --> 39:35.450]  You, Emmanuel, have done a lot of traveling, and that's well documented in the show.
[39:35.550 --> 39:35.690]  Yeah.
[39:35.690 --> 39:36.710]  And the rest of us, too.
[39:36.950 --> 39:38.850]  Mike and I broadcast from Cuba one night.
[39:38.990 --> 39:40.450]  We went to Cuba to do a show.
[39:40.550 --> 39:42.210]  And we actually did fundraising from Cuba, didn't we?
[39:42.470 --> 39:43.170]  I believe...
[39:43.170 --> 39:43.530]  Wait, I'm sorry.
[39:43.810 --> 39:44.530]  I don't know.
[39:45.350 --> 39:54.050]  Guinness hasn't verified it, but I believe this may be the only time in the history of American public radio that fundraising has taken place from Cuba.
[39:54.130 --> 39:56.950]  Yeah, so we're breaking all kinds of barriers there.
[39:57.010 --> 39:58.190]  I did a show from North Korea.
[39:58.430 --> 40:02.970]  Actually, I was recorded, but still, I went to North Korea and ended off the hook from there.
[40:03.110 --> 40:05.250]  I think that's, you know, there's some history being made.
[40:05.250 --> 40:07.890]  We try to move the boundaries.
[40:07.890 --> 40:10.030]  We try to establish our own new boundaries.
[40:10.410 --> 40:14.470]  We've done observations of different events that have happened, hacker events over the ages.
[40:14.690 --> 40:20.590]  And basically, anywhere where, you know, the people on this show end up, you get to hear about that.
[40:20.690 --> 40:23.370]  And so, you know, you get to learn about that, too.
[40:23.530 --> 40:24.890]  There's a lot in there.
[40:24.970 --> 40:30.430]  Join this magical world of ours, the world of hackers, the world of exploration and boundaries and things like that.
[40:30.610 --> 40:32.030]  212-209-2950.
[40:32.070 --> 40:33.090]  We have three pledge levels.
[40:33.090 --> 40:42.050]  125 gets you all of the DVDs, all 20 DVDs of the radio show going back to 1988 and two years of 2600 and the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[40:42.630 --> 40:50.570]  $75 pledge gets you everything that came out since the year 2000, 2000 to 2009, and two years of 2600 plus the t-shirt.
[40:50.730 --> 40:52.450]  And 25 gets you the t-shirt.
[40:52.650 --> 40:54.690]  So everybody 25 and above gets a t-shirt.
[40:54.850 --> 40:55.570]  There's no getting around that.
[40:55.670 --> 40:57.210]  212-209-2950.
[40:57.890 --> 40:57.970]  Mike?
[40:58.030 --> 40:59.270]  Now, you said it's 20 DVDs.
[40:59.270 --> 41:01.310]  How many hours of programming is this?
[41:01.370 --> 41:01.570]  Well, I figure.
[41:01.710 --> 41:04.490]  I figure every DVD has about 40 hours on it.
[41:04.650 --> 41:08.050]  No, more than that because we're on just about every week of the year.
[41:08.070 --> 41:08.650]  That's an hour.
[41:09.070 --> 41:09.610]  And that would be...
[41:09.610 --> 41:10.430]  So between 40 and 50.
[41:10.430 --> 41:11.370]  I'd say around...
[41:11.370 --> 41:12.810]  How many times are we preempted in a year?
[41:13.170 --> 41:15.730]  Maybe 49 hours per DVD.
[41:16.010 --> 41:16.730]  So add...
[41:16.730 --> 41:18.010]  So that's almost 1,000.
[41:18.230 --> 41:19.050]  It's a lot.
[41:19.190 --> 41:19.810]  It's a lot.
[41:19.910 --> 41:25.310]  If you're looking to spend a lot of time listening to something and getting inspired to do other things...
[41:25.310 --> 41:27.530]  It's like, what, like 10 cents per hour of content?
[41:27.530 --> 41:30.290]  People have written, as we mentioned, graphic novels.
[41:30.450 --> 41:37.410]  People have written screenplays, songs, all kinds of rants and raves based on the things that we've experienced.
[41:37.610 --> 41:38.710]  And it's not just us.
[41:38.790 --> 41:39.490]  It's you as well.
[41:39.890 --> 41:41.510]  People call in our radio show all the time.
[41:41.590 --> 41:44.550]  They tell us their experiences, their stories, their questions, their answers.
[41:44.870 --> 41:45.570]  It's magic.
[41:45.690 --> 41:47.150]  That's what radio is all about is the magic.
[41:47.150 --> 41:50.050]  And if you want to plunge right into it, there's no better way.
[41:50.150 --> 41:52.250]  212-209-2950.
[41:52.450 --> 41:54.050]  It's not just us on the show.
[41:54.050 --> 41:55.190]  We have guests all the time.
[41:55.190 --> 42:00.970]  We run into people when we're in different parts of the world and we speak to and they get to tell stories.
[42:01.110 --> 42:02.030]  It's all in there.
[42:02.130 --> 42:09.630]  The shows that we do from the conferences around the world that we journey to, Malaysia, Germany, Netherlands, all kinds, Brazil.
[42:10.290 --> 42:11.210]  It's simply incredible.
[42:11.470 --> 42:13.250]  And the people there are very, varied too.
[42:13.350 --> 42:19.830]  I mean, I remember this past summer when we were broadcasting from What the Hack, we ran into a listener from, I think, Australia, right?
[42:19.830 --> 42:20.410]  Yeah, yeah, Australia.
[42:20.830 --> 42:22.010]  And he got to talk about it.
[42:22.010 --> 42:24.330]  It's great meeting people from all over the world who listen to this program.
[42:24.490 --> 42:25.990]  And when we started, we weren't able to do that.
[42:26.110 --> 42:27.510]  We were able to broadcast to the New York area.
[42:27.770 --> 42:32.950]  In fact, the next excerpt that I play is something that I'm telling another traumatic story of mine.
[42:33.910 --> 42:38.570]  And I'm only broadcasting to New York because we had no idea we could broadcast to the rest of the world at that time.
[42:39.130 --> 42:44.050]  So it's an incredible progress report seeing how things have changed over the years.
[42:44.290 --> 42:45.790]  You couldn't broadcast to the rest of the world.
[42:45.790 --> 42:47.270]  Could not broadcast to the rest of the world.
[42:52.910 --> 42:53.630]  Widespread, you're saying.
[42:53.830 --> 42:53.970]  Yeah.
[42:54.130 --> 42:54.270]  Yeah.
[42:54.670 --> 43:01.690]  I mean, we started with real audio, and we basically started to broadcast some test shows in that format.
[43:01.830 --> 43:03.170]  And you hear us talking about that as well.
[43:03.370 --> 43:08.550]  But then later on, maybe around 1997 or so, that's when we started to archive the shows and make them available for downloading.
[43:09.330 --> 43:12.770]  And that made us realize, wow, we've got some real history here.
[43:12.830 --> 43:13.830]  But that was back in 1997.
[43:13.910 --> 43:14.970]  It's not 2010.
[43:15.770 --> 43:18.730]  So you can imagine all the history that's been made in that amount of time.
[43:18.730 --> 43:20.090]  And what's crazy is that was 1997.
[43:20.330 --> 43:21.970]  The DVDs started in 1988.
[43:21.990 --> 43:28.090]  That's almost 10 years before the internet was even conceivable for transmitting audio.
[43:28.270 --> 43:28.350]  Yeah.
[43:28.390 --> 43:31.010]  And you'll probably hear us making some incredibly bad predictions, too.
[43:31.450 --> 43:35.470]  All kinds of things that... When we started, there was no Google.
[43:36.010 --> 43:38.190]  There was... Was there Microsoft?
[43:38.390 --> 43:38.730]  1988?
[43:39.190 --> 43:43.690]  You had... Back at that time, you had to have books to look up what websites to visit.
[43:43.690 --> 43:44.370]  There was no Wikipedia.
[43:44.750 --> 43:45.510]  There was nothing.
[43:45.990 --> 43:46.310]  Yeah.
[43:46.410 --> 43:47.150]  There was no websites.
[43:47.750 --> 43:48.770]  I mean, that's back in the...
[43:48.770 --> 43:50.050]  In 88, there wasn't websites.
[43:50.230 --> 43:52.450]  In the early 90s, you had websites, but there was no search.
[43:52.550 --> 43:54.410]  So you had to know where to go.
[43:54.610 --> 43:54.730]  Right.
[43:55.090 --> 43:55.250]  Right.
[43:55.710 --> 43:59.350]  Well, I mean, there were books that were published to tell you to go to this website.
[43:59.350 --> 44:02.510]  I find it amazing to just go back and listen and hear how things sound different.
[44:02.630 --> 44:04.370]  Hear how the phone system sounds different.
[44:04.470 --> 44:04.930]  Hear rings.
[44:05.250 --> 44:07.830]  There were still crossbar exchanges back then when we started.
[44:07.830 --> 44:14.110]  So you have all that history to look at, but also just the radio part of it.
[44:14.370 --> 44:23.890]  At the 2600 meeting this past Friday, I was talking to somebody who listens to the show, and he said, you know, I like listening to old-time radio shows, shows from the past.
[44:23.890 --> 44:24.650]  And I realized, you know what?
[44:24.650 --> 44:35.230]  We're sort of like that now, because what we're doing is kind of the old tradition of radio, where people sit around microphones and talk about things and play audio and actually do real radio.
[44:35.410 --> 44:38.770]  It's not all computerized and formatted and coming from a PC.
[44:39.170 --> 44:39.930]  This is real.
[44:40.030 --> 44:41.650]  And this is what this radio station is all about.
[44:41.850 --> 44:42.370]  It's real people.
[44:42.610 --> 44:48.010]  And I challenge you, look around on the dial here in New York City and find another station doing anything like that.
[44:48.110 --> 44:49.710]  Sure, you won't agree with everything you hear.
[44:49.830 --> 44:51.670]  In fact, you'll violently disagree with a lot of what you hear.
[44:51.750 --> 44:52.450]  But isn't that the point?
[44:52.670 --> 44:58.230]  The point is to have a forum where you can think and get angry and get inspired and just be a part of the process.
[44:58.610 --> 45:00.690]  And I wish more people became part of that process.
[45:00.810 --> 45:04.890]  That way you wouldn't have the same people calling all the time saying the same thing.
[45:04.990 --> 45:12.830]  And not that we don't love those people as well, but you can only be told to go to Cuba as many times as, you know, as you have weeks to do radio in a year.
[45:13.470 --> 45:15.570]  There are so many people out there that have something to say.
[45:15.670 --> 45:19.450]  And we want to have the phone lines and the forums open for them.
[45:19.870 --> 45:29.010]  By calling us, 212-209-2950, and pledging your support and investing in this radio station, you're making that possible, not just for you, but for future generations.
[45:29.290 --> 45:33.250]  Just like the people who started this place 50 years ago in 1960 did.
[45:34.030 --> 45:34.850]  It's magic.
[45:35.090 --> 45:39.170]  And we help each other, not just currently, but over the years.
[45:39.850 --> 45:44.450]  Now, I hear a lot of people talking about, you know, pledging what you keep the station.
[45:44.630 --> 45:49.610]  But, you know, something else to bring up is that when you are donating money, you're also becoming a member of the station.
[45:49.730 --> 45:54.030]  So not only do you get the station, but you get a say in how it will continue to exist.
[45:54.990 --> 45:57.570]  And that's also something fantastic right there.
[45:57.810 --> 45:57.970]  Yeah.
[45:58.710 --> 45:59.170]  That's true.
[45:59.410 --> 46:00.710]  We're getting a lot of phone calls, and that's great.
[46:00.850 --> 46:00.990]  Thanks.
[46:01.090 --> 46:02.790]  We have six calls on the line right now.
[46:02.890 --> 46:04.710]  Please keep those phone calls coming in.
[46:04.770 --> 46:06.230]  I want to play the other excerpt.
[46:06.610 --> 46:09.650]  We're not going to be able to play all of it, unfortunately, but we're going to play as much of it as we can.
[46:10.150 --> 46:15.610]  And if the phones continue to light up while we're doing this, then we won't have to interrupt again.
[46:16.130 --> 46:23.170]  But if the phones stop ringing, we're going to have to interrupt and not play the entire thing, or play even less of the entire thing than we want to.
[46:23.730 --> 46:25.650]  This is back in 1995.
[46:26.990 --> 46:29.270]  It was January of 1995, I believe.
[46:30.290 --> 46:31.230]  Yeah, I believe so.
[46:31.370 --> 46:34.330]  January of 1995, where I went to North Carolina.
[46:34.810 --> 46:40.410]  And I had a situation, a kind of traumatic situation, driving back through North Carolina.
[46:40.510 --> 46:43.190]  Well, I'll just let me of 1995 explain this.
[46:43.250 --> 46:45.830]  But please give us a call, 212-209-2950.
[46:46.170 --> 46:56.450]  Remember, 125 gets you the full 20 DVD set of off-the-hook broadcast quality, plus two years of 2,600 back issues, plus the brand new off-the-hook t-shirt, size of your choice.
[46:56.930 --> 47:03.490]  $75, you'll get the last 10 years of off-the-hook and the back issues and the shirt.
[47:03.590 --> 47:04.910]  For 25, you'll get the shirt.
[47:05.090 --> 47:06.810]  212-209-2950.
[47:07.030 --> 47:09.670]  Please join all the people on the phone right now.
[47:09.850 --> 47:12.170]  Help make this place as strong as possible.
[47:12.330 --> 47:14.110]  Keep off-the-hook and other shows coming your way.
[47:14.290 --> 47:15.690]  Let's go back to 1995.
[47:16.390 --> 47:22.670]  You kind of wake up to the fact that we're all brothers here on this planet, and we all have to start getting together.
[47:22.810 --> 47:26.890]  We all have to help each other and support each other.
[47:28.670 --> 47:29.850]  And it was kind of nice.
[47:33.190 --> 47:35.970]  That is, until I started driving home.
[47:36.690 --> 47:37.230]  That's right.
[47:37.230 --> 47:38.330]  I drove home yesterday.
[47:39.230 --> 47:42.310]  The old return trip was from Charlotte to Washington, D.C.
[47:43.050 --> 47:48.070]  And, you know, I've been stopped by cops many, many, many times in my life.
[47:48.090 --> 47:49.150]  I don't know why.
[47:49.410 --> 47:50.490]  Maybe it's because I look bizarre.
[47:50.490 --> 47:50.950]  I don't know.
[47:51.210 --> 47:52.890]  That's always a good starting point.
[47:53.050 --> 48:02.510]  You know, people stop you because, you know, you're either black, you're young, you have long hair, you have a bumper sticker on the back of your car that says death to pigs or something like that.
[48:02.710 --> 48:04.050]  And, you know, I didn't have that.
[48:04.210 --> 48:04.570]  Don't worry.
[48:04.710 --> 48:07.290]  But I can't imagine why people do that to their cars.
[48:08.350 --> 48:10.730]  Actually, maybe I can after some of these incidents.
[48:10.890 --> 48:19.310]  But in all the time that I've been pulled over by various law enforcement agencies, I think maybe I've gotten one ticket out of it all.
[48:19.430 --> 48:22.150]  And it's been fairly cordial for the most part.
[48:22.690 --> 48:40.490]  Of course, there were the times entering the country from foreign lands such as Canada, where I've been searched extensively and looked over like I was, you know, some kind of mastermind criminal, real mastermind criminal, that is not just thought crime.
[48:41.790 --> 48:51.850]  And then, of course, there are a couple of times in foreign countries such as Yugoslavia and East Germany, where people were kind of suspicious of Grateful Dead t-shirts, among other things.
[48:52.410 --> 48:56.730]  But again, it all passed without bloodshed, without any kind of real unpleasantness.
[48:56.810 --> 48:58.830]  And for the most part, it was an educational experience.
[48:59.010 --> 49:06.010]  Well, on this particular occasion, I was driving down Interstate 85, going north, actually, on 85.
[49:06.770 --> 49:23.230]  And, you know, I passed by this, this, I guess it was an accident scene or something, some kind of scene where there was a police presence, and did what everybody else does, went at a nice normal speed instead of the usual 75 miles an hour that everybody seems to go down there.
[49:24.110 --> 49:39.110]  And I kept within the confines of traffic and realized that there were now police right behind that will probably be leaving that accident scene and zooming up at 120 miles an hour, trying to find other people that are going 66 miles an hour instead.
[49:40.090 --> 49:44.290]  So I kept a nice conservative speed, so did everybody else.
[49:44.350 --> 49:46.270]  That's kind of the language of the highway when you do that.
[49:46.390 --> 49:51.130]  You know, you pass by some policemen, you know that they're going to eventually catch up to you, so you kind of take it easy for a while.
[49:51.790 --> 49:59.490]  And so I did that, and I noticed as I was driving, I was in the right-hand lane, and I was coming up on this car that was going excessively slow.
[49:59.650 --> 50:06.730]  Now, I should also point out that in North Carolina, there's, there are an abundance of really absurdly slow drivers.
[50:07.350 --> 50:13.990]  Now, I have a theory that many times these people are just trying to refine their driving skills.
[50:14.110 --> 50:20.270]  For instance, as you're driving down a particular road, someone is making a left turn, and you're right behind them, you're going...
[50:20.270 --> 50:21.490]  Sorry, I'm back in 2010 here.
[50:21.550 --> 50:29.750]  I'm just going to skip ahead a little bit, because this part really has nothing to do with anything, and you can hear more of the interesting part of the story if I skip ahead.
[50:30.390 --> 50:32.390]  But no one has ever, has ever done that.
[50:32.490 --> 50:37.350]  I'm told that this is standard down there, and, and at the moment, I didn't know what was standard and what wasn't.
[50:37.390 --> 50:40.930]  I felt the best thing to do is just, you know, play along and see where this thing went.
[50:41.770 --> 50:47.490]  Then after searching me, going through my pockets and all that kind of thing, he says, okay, you want to sit in my car for a little while?
[50:47.650 --> 50:48.390]  It's like, yeah, sure.
[50:48.410 --> 50:49.750]  I've never sat in the police car before.
[50:50.030 --> 50:51.250]  That's, that sounds like fun.
[50:51.730 --> 51:01.750]  So I sat in the, in the passenger side, and he explained to me that the reason he pulled me over was because I was going too slow behind this guy in front of me.
[51:02.310 --> 51:06.870]  And I said to him, you know, the reason I was going behind this guy was you were in my blind spot.
[51:06.950 --> 51:10.390]  I mean, you know, I wasn't trying to be rude or anything like that, but it's a fact.
[51:10.510 --> 51:11.950]  I could not pass him because you were there.
[51:12.810 --> 51:14.410]  He didn't really have an answer for that.
[51:14.590 --> 51:16.070]  He didn't really say anything.
[51:16.250 --> 51:17.870]  He didn't deny that he was in my blind spot.
[51:17.910 --> 51:22.650]  Uh, I don't know if he just expected me to careen over and hit him so he could pull me over for having an accident with him.
[51:23.330 --> 51:25.830]  Um, but he wrote me a warning ticket.
[51:25.910 --> 51:32.170]  Now, as soon as I realized it was a warning ticket and not a real ticket, I stopped arguing because a warning ticket doesn't really mean anything.
[51:32.630 --> 51:45.710]  But I just found it kind of strange that, uh, that he would pull me over and, uh, and issue me a ticket for something so bizarre as, as going too slow and apparently following too close, even though I was not following close at all.
[51:46.410 --> 51:52.790]  And so while this is going on, while he's there, he, he pulls my, um, uh, my license.
[51:53.050 --> 52:00.090]  He, he reads it out over the radio and within maybe five seconds, they have an answer for him as to exactly what it's registered to and my whole history.
[52:00.210 --> 52:00.610]  It's incredible.
[52:00.810 --> 52:08.770]  And I get to hear some, some, uh, some dispatcher somewhere in Carolina reading off all my personal information information over the, over the radio waves.
[52:09.230 --> 52:13.710]  Uh, while this is going on, this, this other police car pulls up right behind us.
[52:13.830 --> 52:14.830]  I'm, I'm just aware of this.
[52:14.990 --> 52:17.030]  You know, he's calling for backup apparently or something.
[52:17.270 --> 52:18.370]  I'm such a dangerous person.
[52:18.970 --> 52:31.370]  And as, as I'm sitting there talking to him and, and, and he's really, really friendly, you know, this is, this is the thing that probably pissed me off more than anything was how friendly this guy was talking about, uh, oh, you're from New York.
[52:31.470 --> 52:32.410]  What's New York like?
[52:32.550 --> 52:33.350]  Do you take the train?
[52:33.470 --> 52:34.190]  You like the train?
[52:34.370 --> 52:35.270]  What do you think of Carolina?
[52:35.270 --> 52:46.870]  You know, all this nice Southern hospitality, you know, it's the same kind of hospitality you get from those guys that, that guard the Washington monument, you know, that, uh, the, the Marines, they're always very, very polite, but you know that if you make the wrong move,
[52:46.950 --> 52:49.890]  they're going to kill you on the spot because that's, that's what they're hired to do.
[52:50.410 --> 52:53.330]  So, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm trying not to be nervous.
[52:53.650 --> 52:55.030]  I'm just, you know, I have nothing to hide.
[52:55.090 --> 52:55.950]  So why should I be nervous?
[52:56.050 --> 52:57.350]  There's, there's absolutely nothing wrong here.
[52:57.450 --> 53:00.510]  I don't have anything on me that, that could possibly get me in trouble.
[53:00.830 --> 53:03.150]  Yet I'm starting to feel like I'm a criminal for some reason.
[53:03.870 --> 53:05.070]  Boy, does this sound familiar.
[53:05.650 --> 53:18.050]  So this other cop comes up and, and just opens the, the, uh, the back door and just sits down behind me, you know, he just comes in without a word, sits down behind me in, in, in the same car while I'm talking to this person.
[53:19.130 --> 53:29.270]  And after, uh, after some more, uh, social niceties, uh, the, uh, the first cop says, um, uh, okay, do you have any, any weapons in your car?
[53:29.530 --> 53:31.230]  Do you have any illegal drugs in your car?
[53:31.230 --> 53:33.950]  Uh, do you have any decapitated bodies in your car?
[53:34.070 --> 53:39.330]  Do you have any blah, blah, blah, whatever else, you know, he could think of that I might not want to have in my car at that moment.
[53:39.570 --> 53:40.430]  Do I have in my car?
[53:41.090 --> 53:43.810]  And I said, uh, no, uh, I don't have anything like that.
[53:44.270 --> 53:48.350]  And that's when he asked the question, the question I always thought I'd be prepared to answer.
[53:49.090 --> 53:51.690]  And for the most part, I always thought I was prepared to answer this.
[53:52.470 --> 53:53.990]  Do you mind if I search?
[53:55.190 --> 54:04.150]  Now you're sitting there in the middle of North Carolina on an interstate highway by yourself with several hundred more miles of road to go in North Carolina.
[54:04.170 --> 54:07.590]  You have a guy with a gun sitting behind you that has not said a word.
[54:07.670 --> 54:09.570]  And you have another guy with a gun sitting next to you.
[54:09.630 --> 54:12.390]  That's really, really friendly, almost manically so.
[54:13.290 --> 54:16.230]  And, uh, he asks you, do you mind if I search?
[54:17.150 --> 54:25.210]  Well, I thought about it for the split second I had, and I realized that I could say, I don't want you to search my car.
[54:25.210 --> 54:26.150]  I have my rights.
[54:26.310 --> 54:27.690]  There's no reason for you to search my car.
[54:27.830 --> 54:30.270]  I'm not under arrest, et cetera, et cetera.
[54:30.270 --> 54:32.090]  All those things we read about all the time.
[54:32.090 --> 54:33.110]  I could say that.
[54:33.570 --> 54:47.270]  And then I could try and figure out a way to get through the rest of the state without being pulled over for doing one mile an hour too high for hitting a white line when I wasn't supposed to or for doing God knows what else, and then being labeled as a troublemaker.
[54:47.350 --> 54:50.210]  And we all know how the Deep South treats troublemakers.
[54:51.730 --> 54:57.450]  So I said to, uh, to the guy with deep embarrassment and shame, no, I don't mind.
[54:57.450 --> 54:58.890]  I've got nothing to hide.
[55:00.290 --> 55:04.870]  Oh, Ed Meats would have been so proud of me, but, uh, I figured I had nothing to hide.
[55:04.910 --> 55:06.150]  I really didn't have anything to hide.
[55:06.270 --> 55:09.930]  At this point, I was also kind of curious, what could they find on me?
[55:10.210 --> 55:11.430]  There was nothing I had.
[55:11.530 --> 55:13.370]  You know, I had a couple of copies of 2600.
[55:13.570 --> 55:22.350]  I had, I had my, I guess maybe the most, um, uh, objectionable thing I had was the, the police scanner, but it was, uh, kind of in pieces.
[55:22.530 --> 55:24.070]  So I don't think they could even figure out what it was.
[55:24.110 --> 55:31.370]  And it's not illegal to have a police scanner in the first place, but they probably would have asked all kinds of questions about it if, uh, if they were able to figure out what it was.
[55:32.010 --> 55:41.470]  And then for the next 45 minutes or so, I had to sit on a handrail, you know, uh, guardrail, not a handrail, guardrail by the side of the highway.
[55:42.210 --> 55:49.350]  While the second cop stood next to me, his hand on his gun, watching me as if I was going to do something.
[55:49.590 --> 56:01.470]  And I got to see the other guy going through the entire car, bit by bit, every bag I had, every, every item of paper he would look at, went through the glove compartment, went through the trunk, even went through the engine.
[56:01.470 --> 56:03.010]  The guy was meticulous.
[56:03.150 --> 56:04.970]  He went through every single inch of that car.
[56:05.430 --> 56:07.150]  I really hate to interrupt this story.
[56:07.210 --> 56:08.170]  It's such a, it's compelling.
[56:08.450 --> 56:10.010]  Even hearing my own voice, it's compelling.
[56:10.210 --> 56:13.950]  And I remember this, uh, like it was yesterday where you're listening to something from January, 1995.
[56:14.690 --> 56:19.470]  It's part of the off the hook archive for offering tonight, only tonight, 212-209-2950.
[56:20.010 --> 56:27.470]  But boy, you know, I, I think what, um, uh, when I got out of that was just realizing that, yeah, you know, I can, I can sit here and say, this is how you should act.
[56:27.470 --> 56:33.590]  This is how I, I will act in a certain situation, but you never really know until the situation happens, how you're going to act.
[56:33.730 --> 56:40.750]  And the one thing that I, I, I remember saying on this broadcast was, thank God I had this place to come home to and to tell this story.
[56:40.790 --> 56:48.010]  And I felt like all of you were there with me, all the listeners, all the, the people on BAI were there while I was going through this.
[56:48.170 --> 56:53.010]  And that, that, that got me through it so, so much better than I could have if I felt like I was alone.
[56:53.190 --> 56:57.270]  And I like to think our listeners feel the same way because you have a voice through us.
[56:57.570 --> 57:02.090]  Please show your support in these, uh, waning minutes that we have, because we really have to get out of here.
[57:02.610 --> 57:04.270]  212-209-2950.
[57:04.470 --> 57:05.010]  Yes, Bernie, please.
[57:05.450 --> 57:05.830]  Uh, yeah, yeah.
[57:05.850 --> 57:10.770]  If you declined to the search, they probably would have searched your car anyway and just said that you had, had, uh, given them consent.
[57:10.970 --> 57:13.010]  I just want to make a very quick announcement.
[57:13.230 --> 57:17.350]  Uh, there's a kind of thing that we say on, on off the hook frequently, uh, to keep people informed.
[57:17.530 --> 57:33.110]  This coming Thursday morning, this tomorrow morning, actually, uh, in Philadelphia, there's a sort of a, uh, uh, uh, very important, uh, federal case going on here in the third circuit where, uh, the federal government will be arguing they don't need probable cause to track your whereabouts,
[57:33.390 --> 57:37.190]  uh, on your cell phone anytime they please without, without probable cause.
[57:37.310 --> 57:45.110]  Uh, the, uh, the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the ACLU, uh, will be arguing, uh, that they should have probable cause.
[57:45.210 --> 57:46.170]  Bernie, we really have to get out of here.
[57:46.230 --> 57:47.550]  Just tell us when and where, what time?
[57:47.550 --> 57:56.610]  So, uh, 6th and Market, Philadelphia, tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock, uh, you're looking for the court for, uh, Judge Slovacher and Judge Roth.
[57:57.110 --> 58:03.310]  Uh, come there, you can see some real government spooks asking to spy on you, and you can thank the ACLU and the EFF for trying to protect you.
[58:03.850 --> 58:04.250]  Okay.
[58:04.530 --> 58:07.750]  Well, uh, I, I hope we get more phone calls coming in.
[58:07.810 --> 58:08.870]  We have two on the line right now.
[58:08.990 --> 58:15.930]  Again, what we're offering for 125 is a full set of off-the-hook archives from, uh, 1988 to 2009.
[58:15.930 --> 58:22.890]  You'll hear stories like the one you just heard, many more, all kinds of interesting technological tidbits, all in broadcast quality.
[58:22.990 --> 58:24.430]  212-209-2950.
[58:24.430 --> 58:32.290]  Pledge of 125 gets you that, plus two years of 2,600, plus a brand new, newly designed off-the-hook t-shirt and the size of your choice.
[58:32.410 --> 58:40.030]  If you want a little less than that, if you want just the 21st century, plus the year 2000, 2000 to 2009, uh, pledge of $75 will get you that.
[58:40.150 --> 58:41.930]  212-209-2950.
[58:41.930 --> 58:43.670]  You also get the t-shirt and the back issues.
[58:43.670 --> 58:48.730]  And if you just want the t-shirt, the brand new off-the-hook t-shirt, 212-209-2950.
[58:48.730 --> 58:50.330]  Pledge of $25 will get you that.
[58:50.410 --> 58:51.470]  We have four calls on the line.
[58:51.610 --> 58:52.950]  Please join those people.
[58:53.390 --> 58:58.210]  Make WBAI the voice of the, uh, what's this next next decade going to be called?
[58:58.270 --> 58:58.650]  The teens?
[58:59.310 --> 59:00.270]  I guess, right?
[59:00.590 --> 59:01.030]  2010s.
[59:01.090 --> 59:02.110]  Yeah, 2010s.
[59:02.550 --> 59:08.030]  We want to be here for, you know, as, as long as radio exists, I think we're a vital voice.
[59:08.170 --> 59:10.890]  We're the most vital voice in this particular city.
[59:11.190 --> 59:15.690]  And throughout the nation, people tell us that BAI is a place that they wish existed in their community.
[59:15.870 --> 59:16.490]  Well, you know what?
[59:16.550 --> 59:18.090]  It's your community globally.
[59:18.590 --> 59:19.970]  So become a part of that.
[59:20.130 --> 59:21.930]  212-209-2950.
[59:22.130 --> 59:22.950]  Four calls on the line.
[59:23.310 --> 59:24.170]  Join those people.
[59:24.290 --> 59:25.450]  Pledge whatever you can afford.
[59:26.210 --> 59:27.850]  And, uh, we'll see you in two weeks.
[59:27.990 --> 59:29.390]  Stay tuned for the personal computer show.
[59:29.650 --> 59:32.870]  Again, 212-209-2950.
[59:33.110 --> 59:33.850]  Thanks so much.
[59:33.990 --> 59:34.150]  Good night.
[01:00:02.710 --> 01:00:04.130]  112-209-2950.
[01:00:04.130 --> 01:00:09.290]  Beyond imagination, called Maru, who appeared obsessed with box idiocy.
[01:00:10.010 --> 01:00:17.170]  But despite looking like a fat cat moron who liked boxes, Maru was in fact manipulating both time and space.
[01:00:17.510 --> 01:00:20.970]  He summoned forth the Dark One from beyond the deepest past.
[01:00:21.270 --> 01:00:24.830]  The one who would be saviour of the internet had raced.
[01:00:25.050 --> 01:00:27.190]  Because the internet is made of cats.
[01:00:27.390 --> 01:00:29.110]  The internet is made of cats.
[01:00:29.230 --> 01:00:30.970]  Cats, cats, cats, cats, cats.
[01:00:30.970 --> 01:00:33.430]  The internet is made of cats.
[01:00:33.430 --> 01:00:34.910]  The internet is made of cats.
[01:00:35.030 --> 01:00:36.810]  The internet is made of cats.
[01:00:36.950 --> 01:00:38.690]  Cats, cats, cats, cats, cats.
[01:00:38.890 --> 01:00:43.070]  The internet is made of cats.
[01:00:49.590 --> 01:00:50.990]  And that's a fact.