[00:00.000 --> 00:02.860]  99.5 FM.
[00:03.100 --> 00:04.860]  New York City.
[00:05.300 --> 00:05.720]  Yeah!
[00:07.860 --> 00:12.240]  And you're listening to 99.5 FM, WBAI New York.
[00:12.480 --> 00:14.660]  The time is 7 p.m.
[00:14.860 --> 00:16.860]  Time for Off the Hook.
[00:22.160 --> 00:26.780]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:27.600 --> 00:32.290]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[00:32.940 --> 00:35.110]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:37.550 --> 00:40.530]  Good fun diddly bump for the best, it's back the worst.
[00:41.170 --> 00:43.030]  I hope that's understood.
[00:43.210 --> 00:44.010]  Fun diddly bump!
[01:15.330 --> 01:16.290]  And good evening.
[01:16.390 --> 01:17.610]  The program is Off the Hook.
[01:17.930 --> 01:20.190]  This is Red Hacked, manning the studio tonight.
[01:20.530 --> 01:22.390]  I'm joined here by Mike.
[01:22.610 --> 01:22.910]  Hi.
[01:23.610 --> 01:24.050]  Jim.
[01:24.370 --> 01:24.790]  Hi.
[01:25.270 --> 01:25.930]  Rob T.
[01:26.090 --> 01:26.530]  Firefly.
[01:26.790 --> 01:27.210]  Good evening.
[01:28.090 --> 01:30.150]  And in the studio we also have Mitch Altman.
[01:30.550 --> 01:31.090]  Hello.
[01:31.090 --> 01:31.310]  Hello.
[01:32.630 --> 01:35.690]  And on the phone, Bernie S.
[01:35.790 --> 01:36.410]  down in Philadelphia.
[01:36.850 --> 01:38.290]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[01:38.730 --> 01:41.290]  And Emmanuel, wherever he is.
[01:42.510 --> 01:43.890]  Oh, yes.
[01:44.130 --> 01:44.750]  Hi.
[01:44.970 --> 01:45.790]  It's Emmanuel.
[01:46.050 --> 01:47.990]  I am in Zagreb, Croatia.
[01:49.790 --> 01:50.470]  Cool.
[01:51.890 --> 01:53.870]  Why are you in Zagreb, Croatia?
[01:53.870 --> 01:57.790]  First of all, it's cool the fact that we could even get here in the first place.
[01:57.970 --> 02:07.770]  I don't know if you guys have been following the news at all, but apparently there's this massive volcanic plume of ash that has been preventing people from traveling to Europe and within Europe for the last week.
[02:09.710 --> 02:17.130]  And it basically presented itself at exactly the moment that my friend Kyle and I were planning on going to the former Yugoslavia.
[02:17.530 --> 02:29.990]  And what we were actually able to do was use this to our advantage, because we were originally going to fly into Germany and take a train down into Slovenia and start traveling around the former Yugoslavian republics.
[02:30.970 --> 02:37.170]  Instead, what we did was we were able to reschedule and work things out, so we flew directly into Croatia and avoided the plume.
[02:37.850 --> 02:48.050]  But, boy, you know, this is just an incredible reminder of how easy it is to completely screw up all kinds of technology and schedules and things like that.
[02:48.490 --> 02:53.670]  Has it been much of a story, even in the United States, the massive chaos that's been caused over here?
[02:55.050 --> 02:55.770]  Huge story.
[02:55.770 --> 03:02.290]  Yeah, I mean, and, you know, you have lots of Americans also who are trapped over there who can't get back, you know, so...
[03:02.290 --> 03:07.090]  It's just whenever I turned on domestic news, it just seemed like that wasn't the major story that they were following.
[03:07.510 --> 03:25.690]  And I think if something like that were to happen in the States, where volcanic ash was suddenly over our skies and we had to ground all of our flights for five days, I think we'd be in much worse shape, because we don't have the kind of high-speed rail network that Europe has to get around and get people from one city to another.
[03:26.450 --> 03:27.290]  This is true.
[03:27.790 --> 03:31.490]  Yeah, I took the train here from San Francisco.
[03:31.790 --> 03:36.950]  I actually took the train to Cleveland and was supposed to take the train here from Cleveland to New York City.
[03:37.170 --> 03:45.870]  But it was canceled because there were, you know, can you believe in our country there's only two rails that connect Chicago to the East Coast?
[03:45.870 --> 03:59.370]  And those were damaged by a freight derailment, so there was no trains from Chicago all the way to anywhere in the East Coast for some indefinite period while they fixed those rails.
[03:59.730 --> 04:05.090]  So we basically, we jumped from trains to planes before we had redundancy set up, is what you're saying?
[04:05.090 --> 04:08.070]  Well, we took apart our really fantastic rail network.
[04:08.930 --> 04:17.590]  That was, you know, back when the car companies were getting everything subsidized, and to nail it, they actually dismantled rails and recycled the metal.
[04:18.730 --> 04:22.790]  So, Mitch, when you say there's only two rails connecting, well, is it Chicago to New York?
[04:23.470 --> 04:31.990]  You mean there's only one track with two rails or two tracks with a total of four pieces of metal connecting Chicago to New York?
[04:31.990 --> 04:32.770]  Okay, sorry.
[04:33.770 --> 04:35.850]  Yeah, so two sets of tracks.
[04:36.150 --> 04:37.010]  Okay, so four.
[04:37.130 --> 04:37.370]  All right.
[04:37.510 --> 04:38.110]  It's not that bad.
[04:38.190 --> 04:41.210]  But yeah, that's ridiculous that that is what connects Chicago to New York.
[04:41.510 --> 04:45.090]  You can just reroute things all over the place here and get around.
[04:45.150 --> 04:53.670]  Of course, you know, we haven't really explored the rail system in former Yugoslavia yet, but I'm sure it's at least on par with the United States, if not much better.
[04:55.310 --> 04:56.830]  I would hope it's better.
[04:57.370 --> 04:58.870]  Maybe it floods less often.
[04:59.630 --> 04:59.830]  Yeah.
[05:00.110 --> 05:12.870]  There was this article in the newspaper about some British family who had been traveling, and their first flight was canceled by a strike, and then they came to the United States, and they couldn't go anywhere because Amtrak flooded, and then they couldn't get back.
[05:13.050 --> 05:15.110]  So, at least you have it sort of okay.
[05:15.370 --> 05:17.010]  And then someone just started punching them.
[05:18.570 --> 05:28.490]  Well, I think this is an example, and I like to use this to sort of encourage people to do more traveling, especially if they're going to come to Hope in July, that catastrophic things can get in your way.
[05:28.610 --> 05:33.210]  And you can't really get much more catastrophic than a massive volcano going off and covering an entire continent.
[05:33.330 --> 05:34.010]  That's pretty catastrophic.
[05:34.230 --> 05:35.330]  Nobody was counting on this.
[05:35.470 --> 05:36.030]  It's the biggest...
[05:36.030 --> 05:39.050]  You know, they say it's the biggest air disruption since World War II.
[05:39.050 --> 05:41.850]  I think it's probably the biggest air disruption ever at this point.
[05:42.010 --> 05:42.590]  It probably is.
[05:43.410 --> 05:48.350]  Because we certainly didn't have commercial air flight like we did back in World War II.
[05:50.090 --> 05:56.970]  But basically, I think this is something that people can point to and say, you know, I can figure out a way around this.
[05:57.070 --> 05:58.470]  It doesn't have to be a disaster.
[05:58.470 --> 05:59.830]  It doesn't have to be the end of the world.
[05:59.830 --> 06:15.990]  And just with a little bit of finagling, and a big, big thanks to my friend Reed for helping us work this out and just going online, going on orbits and kayak and airline sites and just checking out every possibility.
[06:16.210 --> 06:17.370]  There's always something.
[06:17.530 --> 06:19.610]  There's always a way to route around the problem.
[06:19.730 --> 06:23.330]  Just like on the Internet, there's always a way to route around something that's messed up.
[06:23.690 --> 06:32.950]  And in this particular case, we figured, hey, you know, if we fly to the south of the plume, then we'll be able to bypass it and get to where we want to go and then get around by land.
[06:33.450 --> 06:38.790]  Or if we leave a day later, then things might not be as bad.
[06:39.350 --> 06:40.470]  There's always ways of doing this.
[06:40.590 --> 06:41.750]  Of course, the airlines make this difficult.
[06:41.930 --> 06:44.610]  They admittedly make it very difficult for you to do this.
[06:44.970 --> 06:48.210]  The airline I was working with wouldn't allow me to reroute anything.
[06:48.210 --> 06:53.350]  They said, oh, you just have to either buy a new ticket and pay the penalty for buying a new ticket.
[06:53.450 --> 06:54.610]  Like, it's my fault.
[06:55.510 --> 06:57.010]  Or simply cancel altogether.
[06:57.010 --> 07:01.530]  And, of course, I canceled altogether with them because what choice did I have at that point?
[07:01.610 --> 07:10.130]  But I think airlines could have done a much better job as far as just being flexible and routing people on different methods to get where they were going.
[07:10.150 --> 07:11.750]  And they probably would have come out much better in this.
[07:12.690 --> 07:12.870]  Yeah.
[07:13.010 --> 07:18.710]  And the thing is, even though the airports are opening now, the priority still goes to the people who have flights now.
[07:18.930 --> 07:22.230]  And so I wonder how they're going to deal with the entire backlog of people.
[07:22.350 --> 07:24.310]  I mean, how long have the flights been canceled?
[07:24.390 --> 07:25.010]  For a week now?
[07:25.770 --> 07:27.690]  Um, it started on Thursday.
[07:28.090 --> 07:34.790]  It's funny because it's, uh, some reason whenever Kyle comes to town or whenever we go traveling together, a massive chaos happens.
[07:34.910 --> 07:40.230]  I don't know if you recall the December shows where the Eurostar suddenly failed when we were in Paris.
[07:40.230 --> 07:44.730]  Uh, he came to New York and all of a sudden there's an Amtrak failure.
[07:45.030 --> 07:46.330]  New Jersey transit stopped running.
[07:46.570 --> 07:48.150]  Nobody could get from New Jersey to New York.
[07:48.590 --> 07:51.470]  Uh, and then this whole volcanic plume thing happened.
[07:52.030 --> 07:57.530]  Uh, so I think, uh, I think we've got some kind of crazy power over, uh, over mass transit here.
[07:57.770 --> 07:58.590]  Not good power.
[07:58.730 --> 07:59.990]  You want the opposite kind of power.
[07:59.990 --> 08:00.990]  Well, it depends.
[08:01.270 --> 08:11.470]  You know, like I said, you can, you can use this for your advantage if, if you just think or think a little bit and realize that, uh, you have the ultimate control if you just use your imagination a bit.
[08:11.970 --> 08:14.550]  And, um, and I think that's what you have to be flexible.
[08:15.070 --> 08:18.430]  Uh, I hear stories of people that can't get from, from one city to another.
[08:18.590 --> 08:20.390]  And there, there are always ways of doing this.
[08:20.470 --> 08:23.250]  And of course, we have to be, uh, a bit more open to people as well.
[08:23.550 --> 08:27.890]  Uh, giving rides to strangers sometimes or just opening up our homes if people are stranded.
[08:28.570 --> 08:33.030]  Uh, things like that that really make a big difference and, uh, and shows that we're all in this together.
[08:33.630 --> 08:34.810]  Uh, but we had some adventures.
[08:34.950 --> 08:36.530]  We had some adventures, uh, coming over here.
[08:36.750 --> 08:38.630]  Uh, in fact, this has been a big, long day for us.
[08:38.690 --> 08:41.290]  We left on, um, uh, what day did we leave?
[08:41.310 --> 08:41.870]  We left on Tuesday.
[08:42.010 --> 08:42.710]  We were supposed to leave on Monday.
[08:42.710 --> 08:43.710]  We left on Tuesday instead.
[08:44.550 --> 08:46.170]  Uh, and, uh, it's now Wednesday.
[08:46.370 --> 08:48.350]  Actually, it's, it's, it's Thursday morning here.
[08:48.530 --> 08:53.710]  We've only stopped a couple of hours in all of that time because, uh, we've stayed up the whole airplane ride.
[08:53.850 --> 08:59.770]  And we even annoyed the passengers around us because we were talking the whole time and people told us to be quiet because they wanted to sleep.
[08:59.770 --> 09:00.930]  And I can never sleep on airplanes.
[09:01.290 --> 09:08.350]  Uh, but, uh, we had some, some interesting adventures with, um, uh, um, security as we always do.
[09:08.670 --> 09:13.930]  Uh, I, I got, I got, um, targeted for, um, uh, the, the personal manual search.
[09:13.930 --> 09:15.470]  Uh, at JFK.
[09:16.030 --> 09:19.610]  Uh, but I think I want to put Kyle on for the, for the real adventure that he had.
[09:19.830 --> 09:23.730]  Uh, we landed in Prague and then we were flying from Prague to Zagreb.
[09:23.730 --> 09:25.850]  And, uh, well, let's put it this way.
[09:26.370 --> 09:32.050]  Uh, Red Hack, do you remember when you held up a flight, uh, in, uh, in Scotland because of a device you were carrying?
[09:32.350 --> 09:34.550]  Yes, my, my homemade electronic device.
[09:35.190 --> 09:35.590]  Yeah.
[09:35.750 --> 09:36.450]  That I got from Mitch.
[09:37.010 --> 09:38.350]  That I taught you how to make.
[09:38.470 --> 09:38.590]  Yeah.
[09:39.370 --> 09:41.390]  Uh, all the guilty parties are here tonight.
[09:41.510 --> 09:47.470]  Mitch, Mitch made or created a device that you built that held up the entire flight in Scotland because they didn't know what a brain machine was.
[09:47.610 --> 09:47.730]  Right.
[09:47.730 --> 09:53.550]  Um, in our particular case, it was a bit more basic than that, but we still managed to hold up a, an airplane.
[09:53.690 --> 09:56.990]  I'm going to put Kyle on to explain what, what happened in, in, uh, in Prague.
[09:58.450 --> 09:58.670]  Hello.
[09:58.790 --> 09:59.770]  Hey, it's, uh, Kyle.
[09:59.970 --> 10:00.470]  Hello, Kyle.
[10:00.890 --> 10:01.070]  Hey.
[10:01.290 --> 10:02.610]  I'm, uh, here in Zagreb.
[10:03.110 --> 10:03.690]  Can you hear me?
[10:04.110 --> 10:04.450]  Yes, Kyle.
[10:05.050 --> 10:06.850]  Tell us what you did to break the airplanes.
[10:08.070 --> 10:09.070]  Oh, uh, yeah, exactly.
[10:09.410 --> 10:24.130]  Um, the, the, um, the five-hour layover ended up, um, with us standing in front of these, um, flight, uh, listing, uh, screens, and we had no idea when our, our, where our flight was leaving from.
[10:24.550 --> 10:31.310]  And as it turns out, the flight was a commuter, uh, flight on a, uh, a twin, uh, turboprop, uh, airplane.
[10:31.850 --> 10:48.290]  Of course, we're not regular commuters from Prague to Zagreb, so we're waiting, uh, in sort of a far-flung end of the terminal, and, um, about 20 minutes or 30 minutes before that flight was supposed to depart, uh, we got word of what gate it was and found out what part of the airport to go to.
[10:48.630 --> 11:00.610]  And it's interesting, the way they set up the, um, the screening checkpoints in Prague is each section or each, um, cluster of gates has their own security, uh, screening area.
[11:00.930 --> 11:09.130]  Of course, it's a very small, uh, flight, um, and so by the time we got down there with, you know, a couple minutes to spare, it was empty.
[11:09.270 --> 11:15.070]  There was no line or anything, uh, so Emanuel, uh, went through and really had no, no trouble.
[11:15.070 --> 11:28.930]  Uh, I, on the other hand, had to be a little bit more patient, and basically, um, I'm traveling with, um, uh, a small cardboard box full of medium format film, um, and it's really special film.
[11:29.050 --> 11:31.090]  I have a very, very high-speed film.
[11:31.090 --> 11:37.910]  I actually have a lot of film, but for, as far as they're concerned, it's all high-speed scientific film, because I don't want any of it x-rayed.
[11:37.910 --> 11:44.150]  Um, and in the states, the FAA allows you to go right through security, no problem.
[11:44.350 --> 11:45.730]  You can request a manual inspection.
[11:45.870 --> 11:51.250]  Generally, they swab it with these, um, little fabric, uh, swabs and whatnot.
[11:51.610 --> 11:54.910]  So at Prague, of course, I request the same thing.
[11:55.070 --> 11:58.330]  I'm very clear and, uh, articulate my circumstance.
[11:58.450 --> 12:01.090]  And he says, well, what speed, what speed?
[12:01.270 --> 12:02.650]  And, um, they're actually a little more liberal.
[12:02.650 --> 12:06.370]  They suggest 1,100 speed film can go through their x-ray.
[12:06.450 --> 12:07.910]  Of course, I don't want any part of that.
[12:08.290 --> 12:11.810]  Um, so I tell him the highest speed film I've got.
[12:11.970 --> 12:13.430]  I have about a 10 rolls of 3,200.
[12:13.550 --> 12:19.030]  So he immediately, you know, is blown away by that and, uh, and says, okay, no problem.
[12:19.190 --> 12:21.750]  And, and walks it around, uh, the x-ray machine.
[12:21.750 --> 12:23.650]  Well, I get my bags through the x-ray machine.
[12:23.650 --> 12:38.970]  And they actually, um, are the first set of security people that ask to go through my camera bag and I delicately pull out, um, my two cameras and, um, I'm very, uh, kind of exaggerate because I want them to know this is very serious stuff for me.
[12:39.030 --> 12:39.810]  And it's also an experiment.
[12:39.990 --> 12:41.650]  I haven't done a lot of traveling with film lately.
[12:41.870 --> 12:46.730]  So, um, they apparently called someone and I had no idea.
[12:46.890 --> 12:48.570]  We were just standing there and they had the box of film.
[12:48.630 --> 12:52.930]  And it was like they weren't, uh, actually getting to the manual inspection part.
[12:53.090 --> 12:55.930]  So I'm sitting there like, uh, you know, hey, what's, what's going on?
[12:56.410 --> 12:58.850]  Manual's kind of looking at me like, what's, what's the holdup?
[12:58.850 --> 13:06.210]  And he's, uh, actually able to see the woman who's, uh, running the, the, um, the boarding and whatnot.
[13:06.430 --> 13:10.210]  And the boarding itself is actually a gate that goes to a bus that goes to the plane.
[13:10.830 --> 13:18.170]  Um, and he couldn't, he couldn't really talk to me because I'm being very, you know, focused on these, you know, five security guards.
[13:18.290 --> 13:20.490]  I really want them to, to handle me seriously.
[13:20.490 --> 13:29.770]  I don't want them to treat this film and, and, you know, my situation with any sort of, uh, uh, haste and whatnot, but what he's looking at is a bus full of passengers.
[13:29.790 --> 13:39.350]  And what they did is they held up everybody, uh, while they were waiting for a portable, um, sniffing device, uh, so they could swab my box of film.
[13:39.890 --> 13:45.090]  Uh, so they had, you know, a couple of phone calls and it was like, they're just sitting there tapping their fingers.
[13:45.090 --> 13:46.130]  We're waiting and waiting, waiting.
[13:46.130 --> 13:52.710]  And finally a woman runs with this portable, uh, sniffer that has a, um, a pin instead of the fabric.
[13:52.910 --> 13:54.550]  And it, it looks sort of like a seam ripper.
[13:55.070 --> 14:02.470]  And, uh, she very quickly goes around the perimeter of the box and then just around the inside of the box with all the film and sticks it in the device.
[14:02.630 --> 14:08.110]  And they, um, semi-reluctantly hand me the box and let me go before they even get a result.
[14:08.470 --> 14:10.770]  Um, and, uh, that's, that's the point.
[14:10.930 --> 14:14.650]  I realized that I'd held up this entire bus of people trying to get on this commuter flight.
[14:14.650 --> 14:15.850]  So that, that was the situation.
[14:16.070 --> 14:22.330]  It was really kind of interesting, but, uh, everything went smoothly if, if, you know, I can say that now.
[14:22.610 --> 14:23.530]  So that was the story.
[14:23.670 --> 14:24.990]  But that, here's that.
[14:25.130 --> 14:27.290]  Did they cheer when they, when you got on the plane?
[14:28.430 --> 14:29.630]  I'm sorry, I handed the phone to me.
[14:29.690 --> 14:33.290]  Oh, I was going to ask if, uh, did, did they cheer when you got on the plane?
[14:33.870 --> 14:34.710]  Or the bus, rather?
[14:34.910 --> 14:35.490]  Did they cheer when I got on the plane?
[14:35.730 --> 14:42.110]  Uh, no, everybody was a little, uh, uh, they were kind of quiet and, uh, uh, solemn as I entered the bus.
[14:42.290 --> 14:44.630]  And I, uh, I was a little embarrassed.
[14:44.650 --> 14:48.770]  And kind of showing that, you know, body language.
[14:48.950 --> 14:51.150]  I was like, oops, you know, sorry, that kind of thing.
[14:52.110 --> 14:55.690]  Juntz and I at least got a cheer, but I think it's because they were probably feeding them whiskey or something.
[14:56.170 --> 14:56.630]  Yeah, yeah.
[14:56.850 --> 14:57.790]  No, there was no whiskey.
[14:58.550 --> 15:08.770]  The other interesting thing about this turbo prop that we wanted to know is I had seen, while we were waiting during a layover, before we actually knew the gate, these pushbacks.
[15:08.950 --> 15:12.490]  Now, in America, you have a tow bar and a pushback.
[15:12.490 --> 15:20.010]  Now, that sounds kind of crazy, but basically a jet in a gate needs to get pushed back to leave, okay?
[15:20.250 --> 15:28.730]  Well, in America, you have a tow bar, which is this long bar that separates this old diesel thing, right, that's pushing it with this bar.
[15:29.370 --> 15:34.470]  It's sort of hard to steer, it's slower, and that's how we do it in America.
[15:34.750 --> 15:48.270]  Well, as I was waiting, I noticed their pushbacks are these entire vehicles that actually the nose gear rolls onto, and they hot dog around with this jet, like they're driving a minivan.
[15:48.570 --> 15:56.570]  I mean, they cruise to pull these jets out onto the runway where they can start their jets and get going.
[15:56.730 --> 16:00.470]  I'm sure it does amazing things for efficiency, and I was marveling at this.
[16:00.890 --> 16:06.170]  So, of course, we're on the turboprop, and, you know, we're in a hurry because we've held everybody up and whatnot.
[16:06.350 --> 16:23.190]  So he's firing up these engines, and I'm convinced that we're also connected to one of these high-tech, you know, really neat European pushbacks, and we're getting, you know, pushed around, and they're really hot-dogging out there.
[16:23.190 --> 16:31.090]  But the fact is, there was no pushback, and the plane reversed out of where it had been parked.
[16:31.350 --> 16:42.550]  And so we're curious, is it possible, does anybody know, can you reverse, I mean, literally, can you move in reverse in a turboprop plane?
[16:42.550 --> 16:44.170]  Because it was so bizarre.
[16:44.410 --> 16:55.930]  It's like he jumped in a, you know, sports car, you know, and threw it in reverse, pulled out, and then, you know, all but peeled out of the gate to get out and take off.
[16:55.930 --> 16:56.590]  It was amazing.
[16:56.590 --> 16:59.090]  But we were curious about that.
[16:59.350 --> 17:01.650]  Otherwise, it was a really, really kind of a fun flight.
[17:01.990 --> 17:04.630]  So that was another thing I wanted to mention.
[17:05.170 --> 17:05.970]  Do you have any other questions?
[17:06.830 --> 17:15.990]  Yeah, Kyle, you said that they sort of did a cursory swab of your box and handed it back to you before they even got a result?
[17:16.410 --> 17:22.310]  So this was just sort of, this whole, like, exercise and delaying everybody was just security theater on their part?
[17:23.210 --> 17:28.970]  Well, it could also be that, you know, that if it came back positive, they probably would have, you know, chased after him.
[17:29.170 --> 17:30.450]  I think that's what they needed.
[17:30.490 --> 17:31.570]  They needed it for paperwork.
[17:31.810 --> 17:34.710]  I don't, what was the last word you said, Bernie, Seeger?
[17:35.330 --> 17:35.730]  No, I didn't.
[17:35.730 --> 17:37.570]  Kind of like the runaround or just the motions?
[17:37.790 --> 17:38.110]  Is that what you meant?
[17:38.850 --> 17:41.330]  Security theater was this whole exercise of delaying.
[17:41.330 --> 17:41.890]  Yeah, absolutely.
[17:41.890 --> 17:48.390]  I had a feeling, you know, there were six people, no one there before this sniffer had showed up.
[17:48.750 --> 17:54.190]  And, you know, one guy was sitting in front of the, you know, non-use, you know, the x-ray machine that's not usable.
[17:54.190 --> 17:55.130]  He's got a photocopy.
[17:55.270 --> 17:58.670]  Like, he's going through the training thing on how to learn it, you know.
[18:00.150 --> 18:03.910]  And they're all very serious because there's so many of them there.
[18:04.050 --> 18:05.930]  You know, nobody can really sort of fudge.
[18:06.070 --> 18:09.930]  Everybody's got to work their position, you know, because somebody's supervisor.
[18:10.250 --> 18:11.370]  So they're very serious.
[18:11.890 --> 18:16.170]  They wanted this to, you know, happen, and they had made the calls, and they were calling back and whatnot.
[18:17.270 --> 18:27.210]  But the woman who showed up with the sniffer was like, you know, she was sort of hustling by the time she had gotten in visibility at the security checkpoint.
[18:27.710 --> 18:30.990]  And, like, she was the one that was, you know, qualified to use this instrument.
[18:31.410 --> 18:38.030]  But the way she kind of walked over, pushed everybody out of the way, and she's like, all right, give me, you know, just kind of like, you know, let me get in there.
[18:38.110 --> 18:38.690]  Yeah, swab that.
[18:38.830 --> 18:41.290]  All right, and just threw it in and had it running.
[18:41.530 --> 18:43.830]  But she, you know, did it very casually.
[18:43.830 --> 18:51.530]  And it didn't really match the seriousness that the other security guards had given my situation.
[18:51.530 --> 18:57.090]  So that was something I noticed as far as theater, you know, that they didn't really know how to use it.
[18:57.170 --> 19:00.070]  But she came in and said, come on, you guys, this is simple.
[19:00.070 --> 19:03.630]  And I don't even know if she really did it that seriously.
[19:03.630 --> 19:06.570]  It didn't look that serious, if that answers your question.
[19:07.670 --> 19:10.310]  Were you worried that they wouldn't be able to...
[19:10.310 --> 19:14.210]  Were you worried that they might be able to tell that all your rolls of film were not 3200 speed?
[19:15.290 --> 19:17.790]  Yeah, that concerned me at JFK, too.
[19:18.250 --> 19:19.270]  I have a mix.
[19:19.550 --> 19:20.550]  I've got 100.
[19:20.730 --> 19:21.690]  I've got color.
[19:21.950 --> 19:22.770]  I've got 400.
[19:23.910 --> 19:25.550]  I might even have some 800.
[19:27.110 --> 19:33.790]  But what I've been telling, of course, security at JFK, I've been saying, you know, this is art.
[19:33.930 --> 19:35.210]  This is artistic film.
[19:35.210 --> 19:36.790]  This is scientific film.
[19:36.870 --> 19:47.490]  And actually, the FAA guidelines allow you, even if your film is under 400, the FAA and generally TSA says under 400 speed film is okay.
[19:48.870 --> 19:51.510]  In, let's see...
[19:51.510 --> 19:52.070]  Or no, I'm sorry.
[19:52.190 --> 19:54.170]  SeaTac in Seattle said under 400.
[19:54.550 --> 19:55.930]  JFK said 800.
[19:56.430 --> 20:00.370]  And this checkpoint in Prague said 1100.
[20:00.870 --> 20:01.790]  And that's terrible.
[20:01.790 --> 20:06.430]  I mean, so it got more and more liberal as I got away from America.
[20:07.110 --> 20:09.350]  But so you can...
[20:09.350 --> 20:11.650]  So that, you know, having 3200 really allowed it.
[20:11.750 --> 20:20.230]  But my point, and I'm getting to it real quick, basically what I'm saying is there's another exception in the FAA rules, and that's for push processing.
[20:20.570 --> 20:34.790]  So if you have a 100-speed film and you're going to push process it, meaning you're taking it out of the developer before it is technically finished developing, that's another situation where you do not want to have your film x-rayed.
[20:35.230 --> 20:46.910]  So technically, I could say, you know, yeah, this is 100-speed film, but I don't know what I'm going to photograph, and I very well may need to have to push one of these roles.
[20:47.190 --> 20:50.010]  I haven't gotten to that point to have to bring that up.
[20:50.270 --> 20:55.590]  Generally, I've been able to just show them a box that came off the 32, and they don't even really look at it.
[20:56.050 --> 21:04.650]  At SeaTac, they opened all the boxes, and they looked at some of the Kodak, but I don't even think they understood the numbers on it, to be serious, you know, to be honest.
[21:05.050 --> 21:11.110]  And same thing at JFK, all I had to do was tell them that it was, that there was 32 in it, and they took the whole box.
[21:11.890 --> 21:17.630]  So I was very happy with the American security checkpoints, and here they did not say anything.
[21:17.670 --> 21:18.750]  I was very concerned about it.
[21:18.810 --> 21:23.530]  Every single x-ray machine I encounter, I'm very concerned about it, because I don't want any of it x-rayed.
[21:23.770 --> 21:24.250]  Are you kidding?
[21:24.390 --> 21:30.290]  I mean, if I have to, worst case, it goes through once, but that's risky for me, you know, artistically.
[21:30.490 --> 21:35.730]  So it's been a positive experience, but absolutely, I was worried.
[21:36.590 --> 21:44.050]  But if it had to get technical, I could say, you know, and maybe push processing something that is allowed, but for my purposes can't work.
[21:44.370 --> 21:52.090]  I think it's best practice to just do the Star Trek thing and just keep throwing more and more complex jargon at them until their eyes glaze over and they let you through.
[21:52.610 --> 21:55.410]  Yeah, that was my MO.
[21:55.550 --> 21:57.250]  That was my... I was sticking with that.
[21:57.370 --> 21:58.910]  I figured that would work above anything else.
[21:59.510 --> 22:00.350]  Anyway, here's the manual.
[22:00.350 --> 22:00.810]  Thank you.
[22:02.470 --> 22:04.630]  Yeah, it's been interesting.
[22:04.850 --> 22:12.990]  We also had some challenges involved in finding places to stay, because apparently websites here don't work quite the same way in many instances.
[22:13.790 --> 22:17.110]  Let's say you're trying to find a place to stay, and you want to find out how much it costs.
[22:17.110 --> 22:19.690]  We filled out this whole form, and we thought we were going to get a quote.
[22:19.850 --> 22:22.990]  Instead, we got a promise that one day they would email us.
[22:23.070 --> 22:25.030]  And to this day, they still haven't.
[22:25.150 --> 22:28.030]  It's been over 12 hours, so obviously we didn't stay at that place.
[22:28.050 --> 22:29.910]  We finally found a hostel, which is really nice.
[22:29.970 --> 22:32.990]  In fact, they let us use their phone line.
[22:33.090 --> 22:37.250]  We're using their incoming line right now, and they can't get any calls because we're on the radio.
[22:37.450 --> 22:40.630]  And we're also in their kitchen, so we have this whole private area to ourselves.
[22:40.810 --> 22:41.770]  So it's really awesome.
[22:41.930 --> 22:44.190]  It's incredible how nice people can be sometimes.
[22:44.410 --> 22:49.530]  But their website, oh my God, we're trying to figure out how to book a place here.
[22:49.690 --> 22:52.750]  And we filled out all the information, including credit card information, everything like that.
[22:53.190 --> 22:58.870]  And then after that, there was no button to hit to say submit, to send all the information.
[22:59.150 --> 23:08.590]  And so I finally wound up calling them from the Czech Republic, and I asked them, you know, there's no way to actually send the information to you once I enter it all.
[23:08.690 --> 23:10.110]  And they said, did you call before?
[23:10.690 --> 23:12.070]  And I said, no, I never called you before.
[23:12.170 --> 23:14.090]  I said, well, someone called before and said the same thing.
[23:15.690 --> 23:20.950]  Well, we had a very good reason why that might be so, because you don't have a submit button on your website.
[23:20.950 --> 23:27.290]  So tomorrow morning, we're going to try and help them figure this out, because, you know, very simple things like that sometimes get neglected.
[23:27.710 --> 23:30.550]  So their website doesn't work, and you're taking up their phone line.
[23:30.650 --> 23:33.170]  Basically, there's no way to book at this place right now.
[23:33.270 --> 23:34.610]  Right now, no, there is no way.
[23:34.710 --> 23:35.890]  It's pretty much shut down.
[23:36.550 --> 23:41.570]  But, you know, I've only been in Prague a few hours.
[23:41.830 --> 23:43.670]  And most of those hours, I was taking a nap.
[23:44.090 --> 23:53.430]  But it seems like a very friendly, cheerful place and one of those, you know, old European cities with trams everywhere and just old shops and architecture.
[23:54.070 --> 23:57.570]  We're going to wander around and learn as much as we can about this place.
[23:57.570 --> 24:07.990]  Meet up with some 2,600 people in Zagreb and then probably head to Ljubljana after that, and then down towards Sarajevo.
[24:08.290 --> 24:10.650]  Basically, the idea is to hit every single Yugoslav republic.
[24:11.070 --> 24:21.630]  So if there are any listeners out there who are in any of the former Yugoslav republics or Albania, which is also a place I'd like to get to, please e-mail us, O-T-H at 2600 dot com.
[24:22.390 --> 24:23.710]  But enough about our travels.
[24:23.890 --> 24:25.690]  There's also other things going on in the world.
[24:26.190 --> 24:32.350]  I understand now, and maybe somebody can tell me about this, that caller ID spoofing is illegal in the United States?
[24:33.570 --> 24:34.470]  Well, it's imminent.
[24:35.170 --> 24:37.610]  The passage of it appears to be imminent.
[24:37.790 --> 24:38.570]  It's not law yet.
[24:40.330 --> 24:44.070]  Well, the House signed stand last Wednesday, passed a bill.
[24:44.190 --> 24:45.790]  The Senate has already passed a bill.
[24:45.990 --> 24:56.270]  Is there any reason on earth that President Obama would not sign a bill saying that sending fake caller ID information down the line should not be illegal?
[24:56.270 --> 25:00.550]  Well, he hasn't consulted with us yet, so I'm holding out hope.
[25:01.290 --> 25:02.690]  Well, let me ask you, Bernie.
[25:03.530 --> 25:17.870]  As a concerned American, as somebody who wants my information to be preserved and wants everything to be factual and truthful, why on earth would you need the ability to send fake caller ID information for any legitimate reason?
[25:18.650 --> 25:22.270]  Well, because I call a lot of companies that I don't want them to have my phone number.
[25:22.390 --> 25:31.970]  If you ever call a toll-free number, either 800 or 888 or 866 and coming soon 855 numbers, they will have your phone number when you call them.
[25:32.070 --> 25:34.310]  It's called A&I.
[25:34.530 --> 25:34.870]  And I don't...
[25:34.870 --> 25:37.310]  Yes, but A&I has nothing to do with caller ID.
[25:37.430 --> 25:41.910]  If you block caller ID or send fake caller ID, won't the A&I still send the real phone number?
[25:41.910 --> 25:42.690]  That's true.
[25:43.170 --> 25:44.290]  You're correct there.
[25:44.370 --> 25:46.410]  I do want ways around that.
[25:46.510 --> 25:47.750]  But even when you're calling...
[25:47.750 --> 25:59.130]  If you're calling companies that aren't toll-free numbers, and they have that blocking where they block calls from people who are blocking their caller ID number, it's really annoying.
[25:59.290 --> 26:08.610]  You have to jump through all these hoops to use a calling card or something just to prevent local companies or companies who don't allow you to block your caller ID.
[26:08.830 --> 26:10.750]  They want to get your number.
[26:10.750 --> 26:20.290]  And I like to preserve my privacy, and I would like to be able to just make up some number ending in 0000 or something, just so they don't have my cell phone number when I call.
[26:20.770 --> 26:21.390]  They're a little different.
[26:22.130 --> 26:22.970]  They're saying, when you...
[26:22.970 --> 26:31.290]  When you dial star 67, for instance, to block your caller ID, you're saying that that isn't allowed some places block anonymous call rejection?
[26:31.830 --> 26:32.270]  Yes.
[26:32.430 --> 26:40.930]  You call some businesses that will say, you'll get a telco recording saying, we're sorry, the part of your calling does not accept block calls.
[26:41.350 --> 26:48.650]  And, you know, you don't have a choice, really, other than to, like, find a pay phone or use a prepaid cell phone or use a calling card.
[26:48.830 --> 26:49.490]  It's very annoying.
[26:49.490 --> 26:50.930]  I would rather...
[26:50.930 --> 26:52.470]  It would be nice to be able to spoof that.
[26:52.630 --> 27:04.890]  But more importantly, there's a lot of companies that have telephone systems whereby they don't want the individual line at the phone company to show up as the calling number.
[27:05.050 --> 27:11.390]  They would like it to show up as, like, the same consistent number for everybody that calls from that company.
[27:11.390 --> 27:13.850]  I don't think this bill has been thought through very well.
[27:13.990 --> 27:15.330]  I don't think...
[27:15.330 --> 27:18.790]  Maybe some last-minute exceptions added to it.
[27:18.850 --> 27:23.930]  I don't think there'll be any exceptions added for people that want to just spoof for fun, that sort of thing.
[27:24.070 --> 27:28.990]  But it's just another restriction on what you can do with telephone stuff.
[27:28.990 --> 27:33.010]  And people that have their own asterisk servers, it really calls into question.
[27:33.110 --> 27:36.490]  That's a free voice over IP server that people can run.
[27:37.850 --> 27:47.770]  It calls into question as to whether even possessing a code module that allows you to spoof your outgoing caller ID, whether just possession of that software will now become a felony.
[27:48.010 --> 27:50.230]  So I'm really curious how this is all going to play out.
[27:51.350 --> 27:53.410]  I think early that...
[27:53.410 --> 27:54.450]  I'm echoing.
[27:54.490 --> 27:56.770]  I don't know if I'm echoing on your phone as well.
[27:56.930 --> 28:06.250]  But I don't think it's illegal in the case of the corporation you described, because there's a provision in the bill that it's only against the law to spoof caller ID.
[28:06.250 --> 28:08.210]  with the intent to defraud or deceive.
[28:08.530 --> 28:10.210]  So you'd have a very hard...
[28:10.790 --> 28:20.450]  a prosecutor would have a very hard time, I think, making a case that a company switching one of its own numbers for another number is intending to defraud or deceive.
[28:20.730 --> 28:30.070]  But, you know, if there's someone out there who they wish to get anyway, just because they don't like them or something, this is one of those bills that they can probably find some way to apply.
[28:30.670 --> 28:32.510]  Well, Mike, I mean, it's...
[28:32.510 --> 28:35.130]  we can say that it's already illegal to defraud.
[28:35.250 --> 28:37.270]  I mean, that's a pretty obvious thing.
[28:37.270 --> 28:39.570]  If you defraud somebody, that's generally against the law.
[28:40.330 --> 28:41.050]  But deceive...
[28:41.050 --> 28:46.410]  I mean, you know, if I tell you that I'm actually standing outside right now, but I'm actually standing inside, I've just deceived you.
[28:46.650 --> 28:47.890]  Should I go to prison for that?
[28:48.030 --> 28:48.390]  That's...
[28:48.390 --> 28:49.790]  I'm not defending this bill.
[28:49.850 --> 28:50.610]  I think it's a bad bill.
[28:50.650 --> 28:53.830]  I just think we should attack it on what it actually says, not on what it might say.
[28:54.550 --> 28:54.990]  Deception.
[28:55.250 --> 28:56.590]  Deception is getting a bad rap here.
[28:56.630 --> 28:59.470]  I think it's okay to deceive people sometimes, depending on your intent.
[28:59.990 --> 29:05.650]  Now, for instance, there's plenty of examples I can think of where this kind of system has been used for good.
[29:05.850 --> 29:12.190]  For instance, contractors who show up at your house and try to fix something and then just disappear.
[29:12.190 --> 29:14.930]  They take your money and you can never find them again.
[29:14.930 --> 29:16.650]  You keep calling them, they don't answer their phone.
[29:17.150 --> 29:26.430]  But, and I've seen this happen several times, if you call them and you change your phone number to be their home number calling them when they're on the road, they always pick up.
[29:27.790 --> 29:32.030]  And then you get to have a conversation with them about just what in the world is going on.
[29:32.350 --> 29:38.990]  Many things have been cleared up this way and many people have had the fear of the Lord put into them because they realize that you can do anything with the telephone.
[29:39.850 --> 29:45.190]  So, yeah, you know, sometimes I think it's to the consumer's advantage to be able to have these tools.
[29:45.990 --> 29:48.910]  Well, you better hope these contractors don't hear about this law then.
[29:50.890 --> 29:51.330]  Yes.
[29:51.990 --> 29:54.730]  Okay, so I understand also there's news about Hotel Penn.
[29:55.290 --> 30:05.210]  Last week there was supposed to be a hearing by the local community board last Thursday night that Hotel Penn is not yet out of the woods.
[30:05.550 --> 30:14.170]  But what they wanted to do was clear the road for what would be the city's third tallest tower to rise in place of Hotel Penn across the street from Madison Square Garden.
[30:14.190 --> 30:17.390]  Hotel Pennsylvania, of course, is where the HOPE Conference takes place.
[30:17.390 --> 30:22.150]  Our next hotel conference taking place July 16, 17, and 18 in New York City.
[30:22.430 --> 30:23.250]  Now, get this.
[30:23.330 --> 30:27.750]  Manhattan's community board voted 36 to 1 against the plan.
[30:27.750 --> 30:35.050]  And it was just a plan at this point to eventually have this huge tower in place of a future demolished hotel.
[30:35.050 --> 30:41.850]  They voted 36 to 1 against it and did not even offer a list of conditions, according to the New York Observer.
[30:42.430 --> 30:45.030]  Typically, community boards will give a roadmap for a compromise.
[30:45.370 --> 30:48.030]  In this case, they don't seem to think there is any compromise.
[30:48.030 --> 30:50.050]  So, I think this is a good thing.
[30:50.170 --> 30:55.710]  I'm not exactly sure how definite this is for the future.
[30:56.730 --> 31:01.450]  Obviously, in the end, the decision is going to be reached by the city council.
[31:02.070 --> 31:08.890]  And the borough president, Scott Stringer, also has non-binding recommendations that will be submitted at some point.
[31:08.890 --> 31:15.890]  But I think, you know, it's important for everybody to realize that Hotel Penn is not yet out of danger and we should stand by it.
[31:15.970 --> 31:24.810]  If we want to continue having hope conferences there and also having a place where people from around the world can come and stay in New York City for not too expensive a price in a central location.
[31:25.350 --> 31:27.790]  I think it's to our advantage to support this kind of thing.
[31:29.830 --> 31:34.950]  It's unusual but not unheard of for the city council to go against what the community boards recommend.
[31:35.030 --> 31:37.750]  So, there's some hope, but you never know.
[31:37.750 --> 31:38.510]  Yeah.
[31:38.690 --> 31:43.630]  Well, we'll continue to keep people updated on that if we find out more about when the next meetings are.
[31:43.750 --> 31:48.390]  And if anybody out there knows more, please email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[31:48.970 --> 31:57.530]  Now, Bernie, I understand there's also some updates on the whole webcam spying scandal at a suburban Philadelphia school district.
[31:57.650 --> 32:01.050]  Do you want to update us on just what that story was about to start with and then what's new?
[32:01.050 --> 32:31.010]  Yeah, well, the lawyer for the Lower Merion School District here outside of Philadelphia sort of forked over a report, an internal report to a family that's suing the school district for allegedly taking photographs of their kid in bed and other things through their school-issued laptop's webcam with a piece of remote control software.
[32:31.710 --> 32:43.210]  The school district attorney forked over a report saying that over 56,000 secret photographs were taken through students' webcams.
[32:43.210 --> 32:44.370]  How many was that by the school district?
[32:44.950 --> 32:45.490]  How many was that by the school district?
[32:45.490 --> 32:46.710]  56,000.
[32:47.170 --> 32:47.610]  Wow.
[32:47.610 --> 32:48.870]  How many laptops were there?
[32:50.130 --> 32:52.110]  Only a few dozen laptops, apparently.
[32:52.390 --> 32:54.910]  So that would mean that a whole lot of pictures were taken.
[32:55.070 --> 32:59.250]  Apparently, they were set up to take a picture, a still photo, every 15 minutes or so.
[32:59.970 --> 33:05.530]  And the school district is saying that most of these photos were taken through laptops that reported lost or stolen.
[33:05.550 --> 33:11.870]  But the family that's suing the school district claims that their student's laptop was never reported lost or stolen.
[33:11.870 --> 33:22.930]  And the school district provided photos of this particular student to that student's family as part of the subpoena.
[33:22.930 --> 33:25.030]  And you can see the kid lying there in bed.
[33:25.230 --> 33:30.070]  I mean, I imagine there's a lot of parents that are really up in arms.
[33:30.070 --> 33:51.430]  And it's become such a big issue here in Philadelphia, maybe around the country, I don't know, that our senator in Pennsylvania here, Arlen Specter, is rolling out a new piece of legislation to add certain types of video surveillance to U.S.
[33:51.530 --> 34:03.810]  wiretap law, particularly when it comes to having unauthorized photos or radio taken in a residence, in your own residence or in a residence without people's permission.
[34:03.810 --> 34:10.470]  So it's really interesting to see where this whole case is actually pushing federal legislation now.
[34:10.830 --> 34:26.590]  There's also an interesting bit to the story where one of the IT administrators, apparently one of the two people who had access to the software, is refusing to answer any questions at all about what was going on and is invoking the Fifth Amendment basically every time asked something other than their name.
[34:27.990 --> 34:35.630]  So one wonders, you know, what laws they feel they may have broken that they're afraid to discuss anything at all.
[34:36.530 --> 34:57.150]  I would hazard to guess that if you take 56,000 covert photographs through high school students' webcams, that at least a few of these photos may be of minors in various states of undress, and that would constitute a felony under federal child pornography laws.
[34:57.870 --> 35:00.230]  But so perhaps they're worried about that.
[35:00.350 --> 35:13.330]  And I'm not sure if this was done intentionally or not, but the point is, as far as the states of undress photos, but it certainly puts certain people who are doing this into a liable situation.
[35:14.150 --> 35:21.110]  Yeah, there's also interesting questions about these images being retained, possibly on people's personal computers.
[35:21.330 --> 35:31.170]  It seems like, you know, when we first reported this story, we talked about what could have happened, all these crazy things, and it seems like at least some of these things actually did happen.
[35:33.250 --> 35:34.490]  Yeah, it's getting weird.
[35:34.790 --> 35:35.550]  It's getting very strange.
[35:36.290 --> 35:45.050]  We also have the story out of Knoxville, Tennessee, and this comes from the Huffington Post.
[35:46.190 --> 36:00.330]  Jurors in the trial, a former college student charged with hacking Sarah Palin's email account back in 2008, heard testimony last Tuesday that the accused man didn't believe in what Palin wanted to do when she was a Republican vice presidential candidate.
[36:00.330 --> 36:03.790]  Palin has been subpoenaed to testify at the trial 22-year-old David Cornell.
[36:04.550 --> 36:05.090]  Assistant U.S.
[36:05.490 --> 36:14.770]  Attorney Greg Weddle said in court for the first time that Palin's husband, Todd Palin, and their daughter, Bristol, are also potential witnesses in the trial that could last a week or longer.
[36:15.030 --> 36:16.610]  It's turning into a real circus.
[36:17.070 --> 36:31.530]  But the thing is that this guy, this kid who figured out how to answer Sarah Palin's security question to get the password reset at Yahoo, he's facing, what is it, 50 years in jail as a result of this?
[36:31.910 --> 36:38.650]  Yeah, there's four different crimes that the federal government is charging him with violating.
[36:38.650 --> 36:48.230]  And, you know, worst case, if he's convicted on all four counts, he could be facing 50 years in federal prison, which just seems ridiculous.
[36:48.510 --> 36:58.890]  I mean, what he did was look at a public figure's email account and just make guesses of the really, you know...
[36:59.610 --> 37:04.790]  Everybody's probably familiar with the secret question type questions that are set up.
[37:04.830 --> 37:08.010]  So if you forget your password, you can recover it.
[37:08.230 --> 37:14.990]  Well, apparently Sarah Palin chose really stupid secret questions and answers.
[37:15.290 --> 37:18.490]  Well, publicly, anybody can look them up.
[37:18.550 --> 37:20.270]  Like, what high school did you graduate from?
[37:20.270 --> 37:25.010]  Just stupid stuff that you would think that someone who was going to be a heart...
[37:25.010 --> 37:29.370]  running to be a heartbeat away from the president would show more intelligence.
[37:29.650 --> 37:32.850]  But it's going to be interesting to see how this trial pans out.
[37:32.990 --> 37:37.370]  And if Sarah Palin herself testifies, it's going to be even more interesting.
[37:38.130 --> 37:39.170]  Hilarious, more like it.
[37:40.270 --> 37:43.550]  What does Sarah Palin possibly know that could be relevant?
[37:44.210 --> 37:51.010]  Well, and the thing is that she was actually... she was governor at the time and conducting government business through this Yahoo account, through this personal mail.
[37:51.730 --> 37:59.130]  And the reason you're not supposed to do that is because you're supposed to use an official mail account which is archived and you're accountable for the things you write on it.
[37:59.730 --> 38:14.550]  And so the biggest deal about this whole case is that this kid who hacked this... who, you know, answered the security question and looked at her email was able to see things that the government is supposed to be able to but wasn't able to because of the way Ms. Palin was doing things.
[38:14.670 --> 38:16.970]  And has she gotten into any hot water over this?
[38:17.110 --> 38:17.790]  I don't think she has.
[38:17.950 --> 38:18.110]  Yeah.
[38:18.990 --> 38:19.690]  Of course not.
[38:21.090 --> 38:21.450]  Amazing.
[38:22.590 --> 38:27.190]  This letter we got this week, which I thought was kind of interesting, and I haven't had a chance to look into it myself.
[38:27.190 --> 38:28.690]  Maybe somebody else on the show has.
[38:28.970 --> 38:38.030]  It comes from Louie in Rego Park, who writes to us to say, Have you guys seen this site that has begun to appear in Google search results called familycontact.com?
[38:38.730 --> 38:42.810]  They are publishing not only names and addresses but phone numbers and email addresses as well.
[38:42.990 --> 38:49.070]  They claim to be operating outside the USA and not subject to USA law and will not remove any information if asked to.
[38:49.170 --> 38:57.090]  I tried submitting a complaint to Google, but they will only consider removing something from their search results if the law is being broken and you can explicitly state which law it is.
[38:57.730 --> 39:01.370]  As far as I'm concerned, a denial of service attack would be appropriate here.
[39:01.650 --> 39:04.210]  But if you guys have any other suggestions, I would like to hear them.
[39:04.710 --> 39:13.590]  Well, Louie, you know, I don't think we ever condone a denial of service attack against anybody, but we certainly can explore ways of dealing with situations like this.
[39:13.730 --> 39:16.490]  One thing to do first is confirm that this is in fact happening.
[39:16.630 --> 39:17.730]  Has anyone had a chance to do this?
[39:18.810 --> 39:24.430]  I visited that website, familycontact.com, and it's for sale.
[39:24.690 --> 39:26.850]  It just says this web domain name is for sale.
[39:27.030 --> 39:29.990]  So maybe the email sent to us was mistyped.
[39:30.590 --> 39:32.430]  This could be... I don't know.
[39:32.490 --> 39:34.710]  I didn't try other permutations of that.
[39:35.490 --> 39:40.310]  Okay, I'm actually on the internet right now, and I'm going to it to see if that is in fact the case.
[39:40.310 --> 39:42.390]  It says, yeah, it looks like it is for sale.
[39:42.550 --> 39:46.070]  So either, Louie, you got your facts wrong, or I just totally made this up.
[39:47.070 --> 39:49.390]  I'll try .net and .org, but...
[39:49.930 --> 39:52.430]  And I'll try searching some Google things as well.
[39:52.790 --> 39:55.870]  Perhaps it's already taken care of, in which case, thank goodness we were here to help.
[39:56.310 --> 39:59.230]  Or maybe, yeah, your denial of service attack worked, and they've given up.
[40:00.390 --> 40:01.290]  Yeah, that could be it.
[40:02.050 --> 40:03.490]  Anything else going on there in New York?
[40:03.730 --> 40:06.710]  There's something very interesting going on that just broke this morning.
[40:10.610 --> 40:13.970]  NYPD in doing bag searches at Times Square subway station.
[40:15.850 --> 40:24.390]  I've heard about this, and I've heard that there's a disturbing new development with regards to people who don't want to be searched.
[40:25.390 --> 40:26.250]  That I haven't heard.
[40:26.330 --> 40:26.890]  What sort of development?
[40:27.310 --> 40:32.830]  That you face arrest if you try to get back into the subway system after refusing a search.
[40:33.890 --> 40:39.810]  There have been bag searches going on by the regular NYPD, and you've had the option to refuse, and you just have to leave.
[40:40.710 --> 40:43.870]  There hasn't been any more consequences than that.
[40:44.050 --> 40:47.310]  But if you go into another entrance, I think in the same subway station...
[40:47.930 --> 40:48.850]  Bernie, is this correct?
[40:48.870 --> 40:54.170]  I think you posted the story that you were now subject to arrest according to what the Daily News said.
[40:55.630 --> 41:00.830]  Yeah, I read the article on the Daily News, and it did say, quote, You can refuse, but you'll have to leave the station.
[41:00.830 --> 41:03.070]  You face arrest if you try to sneak back in.
[41:03.070 --> 41:04.890]  Now, I don't think this is a new law.
[41:05.030 --> 41:09.650]  This is probably just the same kind of law that exists in most states, and probably all states.
[41:09.790 --> 41:14.990]  In Pennsylvania, it's called attempting to evade or elude police.
[41:14.990 --> 41:27.890]  And in that case, I guess they could claim that if you decided to avoid the bag search and then went in another entrance, that you were attempting to evade or elude police.
[41:28.110 --> 41:28.970]  It would really be interesting.
[41:29.250 --> 41:42.490]  If somebody gets arrested for doing that, I really hope they fight that, because I think they're really trying to evade or elude inconvenience and to protect their privacy rather than to evade or elude law enforcement, per se.
[41:42.490 --> 41:47.150]  And of course, there's always the option that if you, you know, you can go to another station.
[41:47.430 --> 41:56.510]  So if you really, you know, if there were an issue whereby you would not want something in your bag to be found, you can just always go somewhere else.
[41:56.510 --> 42:02.050]  Yeah, they're doing this at Times Square Station, where I think there's there's quite a few other subway stations within walking distance.
[42:02.270 --> 42:07.570]  But apart from that, it's it's one of the biggest, highest profile stations we have in the subway system here.
[42:07.710 --> 42:13.710]  And so if anyone were going to do anything untoward in the subway system, I don't think they'd be using that station.
[42:13.890 --> 42:18.790]  There are over there's something like 460 other stations in the system in which they could use.
[42:18.790 --> 42:25.130]  And they could get on the train at one of those stations and ride it to Times Square without having their bag checked.
[42:25.230 --> 42:25.670]  They could indeed.
[42:26.330 --> 42:38.970]  I wanted to point out, too, that this article, Dale, you said something that the TSA is going to be using a dozen or so of its explosive detection workers to assist the NYPD in bag searches.
[42:39.050 --> 42:46.590]  They may be using the sniffer thing that Kyle was talking about, which detects very minute particles of explosive compounds.
[42:47.350 --> 42:52.650]  So it will be interesting to see if the TSA agents are going to be using different techniques than the NYPD did.
[42:52.650 --> 42:55.550]  The NYPD just did physical, you know, search inspectors.
[42:55.690 --> 42:57.510]  They would just look in and see if anything looked dangerous.
[42:57.990 --> 43:00.410]  Or if they found drugs, of course, they would say, oh, look what we found.
[43:00.610 --> 43:07.570]  But in any case, it will be interesting to see if TSA agents are using different techniques than NYPD and how that's going to delay everybody.
[43:08.690 --> 43:20.010]  Yeah, there was more than one person online who commented something to the effect that, well, the New York City subway system has always been so, you know, proud of their efficiency, and now they're going to go and make it like air travel.
[43:21.350 --> 43:21.710]  Yep.
[43:22.770 --> 43:30.330]  By the way, I have just tracked down familycontact.ca, but I really don't think these people are any threat whatsoever.
[43:30.390 --> 43:32.890]  It's a site about slaying demons and vampires.
[43:34.510 --> 43:36.530]  It's got nothing to do with invading people's privacy.
[43:37.130 --> 43:39.290]  It looks like a good site worth checking out, actually.
[43:39.450 --> 43:41.070]  But I don't know.
[43:41.250 --> 43:45.350]  You know, Louis, please tell us what site you're referring to, because we would like to look into this kind of a thing.
[43:45.430 --> 43:48.650]  We want to see if people's privacy is being violated.
[43:48.650 --> 43:50.230]  Perhaps Louis is a vampire?
[43:50.550 --> 43:51.930]  I don't know.
[43:52.050 --> 43:53.530]  Maybe that was a way to get us to go to that site.
[43:54.250 --> 43:59.130]  We talked last week about the Department of Justice versus Yahoo.
[43:59.890 --> 44:11.130]  And I understand that the Department of Justice has abandoned what had become a high-profile court fight to read Yahoo users' email messages without obtaining a search warrant first.
[44:11.950 --> 44:20.370]  In a two-page brief filed on Friday, the Obama administration withdrew its request for warrantless access to the complete contents of the Yahoo mail accounts under investigation.
[44:21.350 --> 44:24.170]  So I think that's significant news, is it not?
[44:25.110 --> 44:30.810]  Well, I mean, what's interesting here is that it's so easy for law enforcement to get a search warrant.
[44:30.810 --> 44:43.530]  The percentage of applications for search warrants which are ever denied is so incredibly low that the fact they want access and they feel they can't even meet that low standard really tells you something.
[44:44.510 --> 44:45.530]  Yeah, it sure does.
[44:48.650 --> 44:49.190]  Okay.
[44:49.350 --> 44:53.450]  Also, you know, an important announcement from us for The Next Hope.
[44:53.490 --> 45:00.510]  We have confirmed that Julian Assange is going to be one of our keynote speakers.
[45:00.690 --> 45:11.690]  Julian was on our show a couple of weeks ago as the lead guy over at WikiLeaks, WikiLeaks being the organization that came up with the video that showed U.S.
[45:12.070 --> 45:17.770]  troops firing unarmed civilians, Reuters reporters during the Iraq invasion.
[45:18.590 --> 45:22.490]  And, yeah, it was on the front page of every newspaper and all the news programs.
[45:22.630 --> 45:38.150]  I'm not sure if anyone's following up on it in recent days, but Julian is exactly the kind of person that we look up to, somebody who isn't afraid to stand up to authority and tell the truth about what's really out there.
[45:38.590 --> 45:43.910]  And I think that's something that we've always tried to do at the HOPE conferences and at 2600.
[45:44.990 --> 45:51.570]  So it's a great thing to know that he's going to be there, inspiring a whole lot of young people as well.
[45:52.110 --> 45:53.930]  And not only that...
[45:53.930 --> 45:54.370]  Go ahead.
[45:54.370 --> 46:19.490]  I was going to say, not only is he going to be our keynote speaker, but we hope to actively help Julian with his WikiLeaks.org project in finding developers that will help his organization continue to do a good job, an even better job in assuring the anonymity of whistleblowers submitting information to his organization for dissemination.
[46:19.490 --> 46:31.110]  There's a lot of serious technical work that has to go on behind the scenes to release some of these documents, as Julian explained on a show a couple weeks ago.
[46:31.850 --> 46:32.950]  Tremendous amount of work.
[46:33.830 --> 46:35.930]  And so, technical work.
[46:36.090 --> 46:41.910]  And that's, I think, a perfect venue for the HOPE conference for Julian to come and find people willing to help him out.
[46:43.350 --> 46:43.810]  Absolutely.
[46:44.490 --> 46:51.990]  If you want more information on HOPE or want to get involved in HOPE, address www.hope.net, Hackers on Planet Earth.
[46:52.430 --> 46:57.430]  We are still looking for more talk submissions, panel submission ideas.
[46:58.330 --> 47:01.810]  Write to speakers at hope.net if you want to get involved in that.
[47:01.810 --> 47:02.750]  But time is running out.
[47:02.830 --> 47:07.330]  We've gotten so many really good submissions so far, I think more so than ever before.
[47:07.930 --> 47:17.110]  And also, if you want to become a volunteer and get involved in the planning of the conference and the operation of the conference, write to volunteers at hope.net.
[47:17.270 --> 47:21.930]  And somebody will get back to you fairly soon, and we'll start organizing that as well.
[47:22.370 --> 47:23.930]  Any other HOPE-related items?
[47:24.590 --> 47:37.790]  You can also go to talk.hope.net and join our forum and get involved there, connect with other HOPE attendees and speakers, and also work out things like travel arrangements people are throwing in together, writing in together.
[47:37.950 --> 47:39.070]  It's great stuff.
[47:39.270 --> 47:39.570]  Check it out.
[47:39.750 --> 47:39.930]  Yeah.
[47:40.310 --> 47:41.210]  Here's the thing.
[47:41.370 --> 47:50.870]  We really need to build up talk.hope.net, the HOPE forums, because the problem is there are just so many places to communicate these days.
[47:50.870 --> 48:06.950]  You know, in addition to the radio show and the magazine, as kind of old world standards, we also have all the Twitter accounts and Facebook and all the back and forth that can be done in so many different forums that we sometimes neglect the most obvious ones,
[48:06.970 --> 48:08.670]  which is the actual forum itself.
[48:08.930 --> 48:21.530]  So yeah, talk.hope.net is the place to go to ask questions, to offer assistance, to just throw out ideas and communicate with other people that will be involved in the conference.
[48:22.330 --> 48:23.990]  And, you know, we're all busy.
[48:24.070 --> 48:28.670]  We all don't have a lot of time to participate in things because we're always participating in so many other things.
[48:28.670 --> 48:33.070]  But I think this is something that we really should all try and be a part of, because that's how communities are built.
[48:33.770 --> 48:37.630]  And I think that's something that's very easy for people to get to no matter where they are in the world.
[48:37.630 --> 48:52.930]  And I'd also like to just encourage those of you who are in other parts of the world that, I think as Kyle and I kind of demonstrated this week, conquering the volcanic ash plume, you know, things are put up in your way for a reason.
[48:53.470 --> 49:02.970]  It's so that you can get around them and be stronger as a result and figure out ways to just do your own thing, regardless of what the people around you are saying or what nature is doing.
[49:04.030 --> 49:10.730]  Coming to New York is an amazing thing, especially if you've never been here before or there before, since I'm now in Zagreb.
[49:12.170 --> 49:14.590]  But getting into the United States, yeah, it can be a hassle.
[49:14.750 --> 49:15.130]  You'll get fingerprinted.
[49:15.550 --> 49:16.590]  You'll get your picture taken.
[49:16.650 --> 49:17.430]  But you know what?
[49:17.510 --> 49:21.230]  Is it really worth not going at all just because you don't approve of those methods?
[49:21.350 --> 49:29.490]  Once you're in the United States, once you're at the Hope Conference, it will be the most amazing event as so many people who have come to previous Hope Conferences have attested.
[49:29.870 --> 49:32.450]  And I think maybe that's one thing we can ask people to do.
[49:32.450 --> 49:35.670]  Those of you who have been to previous Hope Conferences, go to the Hope forums.
[49:35.790 --> 49:36.870]  Go to talk.hope.net.
[49:36.870 --> 49:37.850]  Tell us your story.
[49:37.950 --> 49:38.990]  Tell us things that have happened.
[49:39.090 --> 49:48.050]  Open up new topics and start posting what happened to you when you went to the fifth Hope, Hope number six, the last Hope, all the hopes before this one.
[49:48.790 --> 49:51.490]  And you'll inspire other people to do similar things.
[49:51.590 --> 49:53.410]  I've met so many people who have said, you know what?
[49:53.410 --> 49:54.570]  I heard this story.
[49:54.570 --> 50:00.370]  I heard you guys talking on the radio and it got me to go to HAR or it got me to go to the CCC Congress or it got me to go to Hope.
[50:00.370 --> 50:12.390]  You know, there are so many people out there that will listen, not only to what we're saying on the radio, to what our listeners will say either on the radio or on a forum or through a letter they write to us, various things like that.
[50:12.390 --> 50:14.190]  There are so many ways to reach out to people.
[50:14.230 --> 50:18.110]  And I think this is a tremendously good thing that so many of us are trying to do.
[50:18.830 --> 50:27.510]  Yeah, and I just wanted to also say about volunteering, you know, most conferences I've ever gone to, and I've been to quite a few at this point, I've always volunteered.
[50:28.310 --> 50:36.530]  And, you know, it's a great way to meet other people you might not otherwise meet and to help out with the conference because, you know, these things are run by volunteers.
[50:37.350 --> 50:41.130]  Even now, you know, we have volunteers planning the whole thing out behind the scenes.
[50:41.130 --> 50:49.250]  And so, you know, if you can find the time when you're at a conference to contribute to it and make it better, then, you know, that's a great thing to do.
[50:49.370 --> 50:53.290]  So, I just wanted to encourage that for anyone who's coming to the conference.
[50:53.990 --> 50:55.150]  Okay, do we have any more stories?
[50:55.270 --> 50:56.390]  Do we want to try to take some phone calls?
[50:56.490 --> 50:59.490]  I know we have some interesting people always on the line.
[50:59.670 --> 51:00.730]  We do have a couple calls.
[51:00.830 --> 51:03.990]  I just wanted to ask Mitch, since you came all the way here, you said you came from Cleveland.
[51:04.150 --> 51:05.010]  I guess you were at Nauticon?
[51:05.550 --> 51:10.350]  Yeah, I was at Nauticon and Bernie was there too, along with about 300 other people.
[51:10.350 --> 51:20.410]  It was a really nice little conference set up by people who, like Hope, were planning this since the last year's conference.
[51:20.790 --> 51:22.470]  And it worked out really well.
[51:22.570 --> 51:33.770]  And this year, like last year, and wherever I go, I set up a hardware hacking area, which was about three times the size of the one last year, and encouraging people to try to actually make things.
[51:33.990 --> 51:38.510]  And about a third of the conference did, and people had tons of fun.
[51:39.410 --> 51:41.850]  Yeah, what was your experience over there, Bernie?
[51:43.310 --> 51:46.930]  Oh, Nauticon is always a great fun out in the Midwest.
[51:47.570 --> 51:48.950]  Cleveland is an interesting place.
[51:49.210 --> 51:52.510]  And you run into a lot of different people in Nauticon.
[51:52.670 --> 51:55.550]  You might not at other conferences just because of its location.
[51:55.550 --> 52:00.870]  A bunch of people came down from Canada and from farther west of Cleveland.
[52:00.870 --> 52:03.850]  So it's just an interesting group of people.
[52:04.310 --> 52:26.130]  And there's also this country's largest continuously running demo scene contest, or block party, where people were showing off just amazing skills with creating visual and audio demos, or like little vignettes, with really old-school PCs.
[52:26.450 --> 52:37.190]  Not even PCs, but ancient computers like Commodore 64s or Amigas from back in the early mid-80s, or even earlier, even late 70s.
[52:37.270 --> 52:38.430]  So just amazing stuff.
[52:38.530 --> 52:42.550]  It was a great contest, and just great, amazing, creative stuff going on there.
[52:43.370 --> 52:46.390]  Yeah, there's a lot of really cool people.
[52:46.530 --> 52:58.890]  I mean, one of the best things about conferences for me isn't even all the amazing talks that go on, people sharing their projects and learning from others, but just hanging out with all the interesting people that go there.
[53:00.190 --> 53:07.070]  And I'm on a little tour now going next to Quahog Con in Providence, Rhode Island.
[53:07.350 --> 53:09.530]  That'll be a small one of about 100 people.
[53:09.530 --> 53:20.650]  And then from there to Penguicon, which started off more as a sci-fi thing, but this year it's officially calling itself a Hacker Conference, and that'll be between 1,000 and 1,600 people.
[53:22.030 --> 53:23.130]  Where's that located, Mitch?
[53:23.290 --> 53:25.850]  That's in Troy, Michigan, near Detroit.
[53:27.570 --> 53:42.470]  Yeah, and again, I'll be setting up a hardware hacking area and teaching everyone who's interested how to make cool things, as well as having a place available for people to work on their projects that they brought there, or if maybe they broke because TSA broke them or something.
[53:44.090 --> 53:47.270]  But yeah, it's been great.
[53:47.450 --> 53:56.430]  And everywhere I go, of course, I talk about other conferences I go to, and there's going to be a lot of people from these conferences going to Hope.
[53:56.430 --> 54:05.130]  And the more we collaborate with one another, the whole world's hacker scene starts becoming one big movement.
[54:05.370 --> 54:08.990]  And it's really exciting to be involved with all that.
[54:09.670 --> 54:10.370]  Absolutely.
[54:10.370 --> 54:21.910]  I noticed also, Mitch, I noticed that a lot of the people we met there at Noticon were affiliated with one or more hackerspaces.
[54:22.170 --> 54:27.530]  So these hackerspaces are just growing in number and in size and in organization.
[54:27.930 --> 54:35.250]  And it's just really great seeing these different hackerspace groups working together and cross-pollinating, and it's very exciting.
[54:35.250 --> 54:39.950]  Yeah, when I was in Noticon last year, there were no hackerspaces in Ohio.
[54:40.170 --> 54:41.330]  And now there's several.
[54:41.470 --> 54:43.250]  There's one in Cleveland that just started up.
[54:44.270 --> 54:54.070]  Yeah, you know, when I co-founded Noisebridge in San Francisco about a year and a half ago, there were only a handful of hackerspaces in the US, and now there's hundreds.
[54:54.590 --> 54:57.270]  And it's amazing.
[54:57.310 --> 55:04.810]  There's just this compelling need for all of us to have actual real community as opposed to what's available only on the internet.
[55:05.570 --> 55:12.370]  But when we get together and can share our enthusiasm, our projects, and learn from one another, amazing things happen as well.
[55:12.410 --> 55:17.810]  By the way, we're setting up a hackerspace village at The Next Hope in July, in New York City, right in the middle of Midtown.
[55:17.990 --> 55:20.870]  You can be part of a hackerspace village that encompasses the world.
[55:21.170 --> 55:28.930]  If you want to be a part of that, write to hackerspace at 2600.com, and we'll get back to you and set you up with space and all that kind of thing.
[55:29.450 --> 55:31.390]  Do we have time to take at least one phone call?
[55:31.390 --> 55:32.490]  I don't think so.
[55:32.630 --> 55:33.390]  I think we're actually out of time.
[55:33.390 --> 55:33.570]  Oh, that's too bad.
[55:33.770 --> 55:33.930]  Yeah.
[55:35.530 --> 55:35.930]  Well...
[55:35.930 --> 55:52.430]  I will say that on the way out to Cleveland, I drove from Philadelphia, picked up our friend the graphic novelist and cartoonist at Pittsburgh, and we had time to stop by the Hack Pittsburgh hackerspace, which is a really amazing hackerspace.
[55:52.590 --> 55:53.590]  They're doing some great stuff there.
[55:53.770 --> 55:56.490]  And then some of the people there ended up at Nauticon.
[55:56.490 --> 56:02.070]  And it's just really great meeting people at different hackerspaces and getting the vibe on what they're doing.
[56:03.730 --> 56:03.950]  Awesome.
[56:04.510 --> 56:05.250]  All right, well...
[56:05.250 --> 56:09.690]  Listen, if anyone is in Yugoslavia, former Yugoslavia, please write to OTH at 26turns.com.
[56:09.690 --> 56:11.290]  Maybe we can meet up with you while we're over here.
[56:12.550 --> 56:15.130]  Even if you're not and you just have something nice to tell us?
[56:15.770 --> 56:16.430]  Or mean?
[56:16.630 --> 56:18.030]  We like mean emails, too.
[56:19.210 --> 56:20.770]  I don't know where I'll be next week.
[56:21.970 --> 56:23.930]  All right, well, we'll find out next week.
[56:24.470 --> 56:26.110]  And until then, we're off the hook.
[56:27.090 --> 56:27.330]  Uh-huh.
[56:28.150 --> 56:28.430]  Good night.
[56:30.130 --> 56:56.590]  Sometimes I feel like a dinosaur Standing up here with my electric guitar It won't be long, we won't need musicians Just button pushers and good electricians The whole world Is computer control
[57:01.680 --> 57:16.920]  Speed of light Shrinking planet It's an age of miracles we take for granted We've all got a number that follows us around.
[57:17.680 --> 57:19.660]  Can't get away.
[57:20.320 --> 57:21.960]  They'll track you down.
[57:21.960 --> 57:23.920]  It's out of our hands.
[57:25.600 --> 57:28.520]  It's computer control.
[57:32.080 --> 57:34.730]  The whole world.
[57:36.230 --> 57:39.200]  It's computer control.
[57:39.940 --> 57:40.500]  Control.
[57:41.270 --> 57:41.710]  Control.
[57:43.190 --> 58:02.810]  We're approaching the ultimate chaos Where everything's reduced to arms and arms Where the measure of a man is his heart to say Say hey, what do you say?
[58:03.090 --> 58:05.050]  Let's get digitized
[58:42.110 --> 59:01.430]  We're approaching the ultimate chaos Where everything's reduced to arms and arms To arms and arms Where the measure of a man is his heart to say Say hey, what do you say?
[59:01.710 --> 59:53.240]  Let's get digitized Let's get digitized Get your kicks on the World Wide Web Reach out and touch a porno Hollywood celeb Download some explanation Maybe you'll find some kind of new world Or a thinking that will free up your mind And take your soul It's computer control It's out of our hands It's computer control Control Control Control Control The whole world Oh,
[59:53.800 --> 59:57.820]  it's computer control.
[01:00:01.120 --> 01:00:03.120]  Computer control.
[01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:21.400]  Woo!
[01:00:22.160 --> 01:00:23.080]  Hey!
[01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:26.560]  Hey, hey, all right.
[01:00:26.560 --> 01:00:30.140]  It's 8 o'clock here at WBAI New York 99.5 FM.