[00:00.000 --> 00:01.180]  It's a marvelous sight.
[00:01.420 --> 00:04.540]  The ship is riding majestically toward us, like some great feather.
[00:04.800 --> 00:06.500]  It's practically standing still now.
[00:06.580 --> 00:09.200]  They've dropped ropes out of the nose of the ship.
[00:09.700 --> 00:13.700]  And, uh, it's been taken a hold of down on the field by a number of men.
[00:14.220 --> 00:19.560]  The back motors of the ship are just holding it, uh, just enough to keep it from...
[00:19.560 --> 00:20.580]  It burst into flames!
[00:20.740 --> 00:21.280]  Get this, Charlie!
[00:21.380 --> 00:21.880]  Get this, Charlie!
[00:22.120 --> 00:23.420]  It's crashing, and it's crashing!
[00:23.680 --> 00:24.900]  It's crashing terrible!
[00:25.280 --> 00:26.040]  Oh, my!
[00:26.160 --> 00:26.980]  Get out of the way, please!
[00:26.980 --> 00:32.620]  It's burning, bursting into flames, and it's falling on the mooring pass, and all the folks between us, this is terrible!
[00:32.780 --> 00:34.940]  This is one of the worst catastrophes in the world!
[00:35.180 --> 00:37.760]  History lives on the golden age of radio.
[00:38.100 --> 00:45.000]  Every Sunday night, 7 to 9 p.m., here on listener-sponsored, non-commercial, WBAI, New York.
[00:45.660 --> 00:52.320]  ...and the frame is crashing to the ground, not quite to the mooring mass of humanity at all...
[00:52.320 --> 00:57.600]  And about, uh, history being made now, you're in the right place.
[00:57.760 --> 00:58.800]  WBAI, New York.
[00:58.980 --> 01:00.280]  It's 7 o'clock.
[01:00.800 --> 01:02.080]  Time for Off The Hook.
[01:07.300 --> 01:11.740]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:12.640 --> 01:17.300]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[01:17.820 --> 01:25.550]  We couldn't get much worse, good from Billy Bon, for the best, expect the worst.
[01:26.210 --> 01:29.030]  I hope that's understood, from Billy Bon!
[02:53.710 --> 02:55.930]  And getting started by the program is Off The Hook.
[02:56.030 --> 02:59.130]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Mike.
[02:59.250 --> 02:59.410]  Hi.
[02:59.670 --> 03:00.110]  Jim.
[03:00.390 --> 03:00.610]  Hello.
[03:00.610 --> 03:00.690]  Hello.
[03:00.890 --> 03:01.210]  Hello.
[03:02.130 --> 03:03.550]  Bernie S, down there in Philadelphia.
[03:04.170 --> 03:05.210]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[03:05.230 --> 03:06.770]  That's a hard act to follow, Emmanuel.
[03:07.090 --> 03:08.010]  Uh, what, the Hindenburg?
[03:08.390 --> 03:08.830]  Yeah.
[03:09.210 --> 03:13.050]  Yeah, what was the first airship that came after the Hindenburg?
[03:13.170 --> 03:14.850]  I guess a good trivia question right there.
[03:15.870 --> 03:17.370]  We should be talking about airships.
[03:17.370 --> 03:22.510]  It's, uh, like technology from, of the future, of the past, or something like that.
[03:22.570 --> 03:23.570]  Yeah, something like that.
[03:23.730 --> 03:26.430]  Like the next hope of, uh, of technology.
[03:26.950 --> 03:27.570]  Things like that.
[03:28.370 --> 03:29.170]  Yeah, dirigibles.
[03:29.750 --> 03:39.750]  Um, well, um, you know, we, we've had, we're talking about history, history of the past, history of the present, and, um, and various, um, uh, manifestations thereof.
[03:39.930 --> 03:49.990]  Bernie, I know you were following the story that happened, uh, a couple of days ago, uh, where, uh, the, um, uh, the relief ships were, were intercepted by the Israeli army and the high seas.
[03:50.310 --> 03:51.190]  This is, uh...
[03:51.190 --> 03:52.990]  Actually, uh, Israeli navy, but yes.
[03:53.310 --> 04:00.410]  Uh, now, this is something fascinating from a technological, uh, point of view, because, uh, I was following the whole thing on, of all things, Twitter.
[04:01.110 --> 04:08.810]  And, uh, you were, you were focusing on the fact that, uh, the Israeli navy had, uh, managed to cut off all communications.
[04:09.310 --> 04:10.750]  How, how did they pull that off?
[04:11.490 --> 04:18.030]  Well, um, communications, radio communications jamming is, uh, is commonplace on the battlefield.
[04:18.690 --> 04:24.090]  Uh, virtually all world forces have, uh, armies and so forth, have that capability.
[04:24.330 --> 04:40.430]  Basically, you're, you, you broadcast a very powerful, noisy signal, um, that has certain waveforms that make it, uh, on certain frequencies that just make it impossible for you to communicate by whatever two-way radio system you're using, including cell phones,
[04:40.610 --> 04:41.650]  satellite phones, whatever.
[04:41.650 --> 04:44.030]  But, I was like, we were following it on Twitter.
[04:44.210 --> 04:48.250]  I was, uh, listening to it on BBC, um, fairly live.
[04:48.470 --> 05:02.790]  And, uh, reporters who were in communication with people on the ship, uh, via satellite phone, uh, were all cut off simultaneously around 4 a.m., which is when the, uh, Israeli commandos, uh, boarded the ship.
[05:03.150 --> 05:11.150]  and the satellite video feeds from the, uh, news, like Al Jazeera, had a video feed, satellite video feed, on the ship as well, the lead ship that was boarded.
[05:11.310 --> 05:13.810]  And that was also simultaneously shut off at four.
[05:14.370 --> 05:19.230]  Um, so, and for the next, you know, 90 minutes or something, nothing came out of there.
[05:19.690 --> 05:29.190]  And, uh, subsequently, all the, uh, mobile phones that had video recording and camcorders and other types of recorders were all confiscated by the Israeli forces.
[05:29.630 --> 05:33.010]  And, uh, I kinda doubt that the people on the ship are gonna get all that back.
[05:33.210 --> 05:37.050]  So, meanwhile, the Israelis are releasing their versions of their videos.
[05:37.490 --> 05:40.310]  And, uh, it's just an interesting form of control of the media.
[05:40.770 --> 05:50.210]  Well, I was following, uh, the, uh, the Twitter feed, and the, uh, the Twitter ID was FreeGazaOrg, F-R-E-E-G-A-Z-A-O-R-G.
[05:50.670 --> 05:53.770]  And it seemed like, uh, updates were, were coming fast and furious.
[05:53.970 --> 06:02.490]  I'm not exactly sure where they were coming from, if it was somebody actually on the ship who was able to text out, or somebody back, uh, in a different location that was getting information.
[06:02.710 --> 06:09.130]  I figure, you know, either one is as unlikely as the other because, uh, somebody had to be, uh, connected somehow to get the information out.
[06:09.230 --> 06:17.290]  So, I'm, I'm thinking maybe somebody was able to send text messages out despite the fact that, that cell phone calls were, uh, almost impossible to make.
[06:17.410 --> 06:19.110]  Or maybe someone was just making it up.
[06:19.110 --> 06:20.830]  The ship was about 80 miles off the coast.
[06:21.070 --> 06:23.930]  There was no cell phone coverage where, where the ship was.
[06:24.090 --> 06:28.070]  There were satellite phones, and there are satellite phones you can send text messages from.
[06:28.590 --> 06:30.650]  So, I don't know if that was what was coming out or not.
[06:31.190 --> 06:31.630]  Uh-huh.
[06:31.830 --> 06:34.950]  Well, it was, uh, it was a fascinating thing to, to watch unfold.
[06:35.170 --> 06:48.250]  And, you know, I, I guess, um, loath though I am to, uh, uh, to embrace the whole Twitter generation, it does come in handy sometimes when you're dealing with, uh, crisis situations involving large crowds of people.
[06:48.770 --> 06:50.770]  And I think it could be, uh, what do you think, Mike?
[06:50.790 --> 06:53.750]  Could be a social tool for, uh, for, for something significant?
[06:55.370 --> 06:56.410]  Um, I don't know.
[06:56.750 --> 06:57.210]  Yeah, sure.
[06:57.630 --> 06:57.850]  Okay.
[06:58.250 --> 06:59.870]  I'm glad you're that impassioned about it.
[07:00.030 --> 07:10.450]  Oh, well, you were saying that, you know, uh, the information that you were getting seemed like it had to come from somebody who's connected, yet, uh, with all the info we have, we don't know how anyone could have been connected.
[07:10.730 --> 07:16.610]  Do we even know that it, uh, that this wasn't just, you know, random stuff being tweeted about?
[07:16.750 --> 07:23.350]  You know, this is something Twitter is supposed to be criticized about that, uh, possible vulnerability and following for news?
[07:23.630 --> 07:23.690]  It is.
[07:23.690 --> 07:36.490]  It's a, it's, um, a user that supposedly is the official user, had thousands of people following it, so I, I assume that whoever was updating that, uh, had some, uh, idea of what was going on, whether they were just watching news or whether they were actually on the boat.
[07:37.010 --> 07:38.790]  Uh, that's, that's a, a good question.
[07:38.790 --> 07:39.870]  I'd like to find out more.
[07:40.250 --> 07:44.490]  Uh, but if they were on the boat, if they were able to get text messages out, what a great way to reach people.
[07:44.490 --> 07:47.490]  What a great way to reach tens of thousands of people and, in fact, the world.
[07:48.190 --> 07:57.390]  And, um, I just, uh, I think it could be an effective social tool if you can, uh, if the signal-to-noise ratio is, uh, is, uh, fairly respectable.
[07:57.390 --> 08:03.490]  Uh, I think it's, uh, I think they stated at some point that the people sending out...
[08:03.490 --> 08:04.950]  Sorry, your microphone is all messed.
[08:04.970 --> 08:05.910]  Can you use Jim's microphone?
[08:06.070 --> 08:06.250]  I'm sorry.
[08:06.810 --> 08:07.810]  Again, all kinds of static there.
[08:07.890 --> 08:16.130]  Um, I, I think it's fairly well, uh, established that the people sending out the Twitter feed were, weren't in office somewhere that wasn't a boat.
[08:16.350 --> 08:16.590]  Okay.
[08:16.670 --> 08:20.210]  But, uh, the question then remains of course of where they got their information.
[08:20.430 --> 08:30.830]  Uh, and, and this was a, a Twitter feed that had, uh, you know, been started before and people knew about it as a voice of the organization sending out this flotilla.
[08:31.050 --> 08:35.830]  So I don't think that is, uh, you know, that open to dispute.
[08:35.970 --> 08:36.210]  Mm-hmm.
[08:36.530 --> 08:52.090]  Just imagine, uh, in, in certain, um, uh, instances of the past where you had, uh, mass demonstrations or just, uh, historic events involving crowds of people, a tool like this where you can instantly reach people, you know, Justin Bieber coming to town or something and you gotta,
[08:52.150 --> 08:54.350]  like, tell the teenage girls to stop screaming and go over here.
[08:54.490 --> 09:02.170]  You know, ways of, of, of reaching a huge people quickly and, um, and, and influencing their movements and their, their moods.
[09:02.610 --> 09:10.530]  Uh, it's, you know, if, if, if we can actually use it for something like that instead of just, um, the, the mundane, maybe some couldn't come out of it.
[09:10.630 --> 09:10.830]  That's right.
[09:11.390 --> 09:19.190]  Well, you know, if, if, if these people were in offices or whatever, then it does beg the question, was this just being an echo chamber for rumors?
[09:19.370 --> 09:27.190]  I mean, if none of the other main, uh, uh, news organizations were able to, to get much news at first, why should they have been any different?
[09:27.370 --> 09:28.830]  You know, where were they getting their information?
[09:29.110 --> 09:30.930]  Oh, presumably they were in touch with the people on the boat.
[09:31.010 --> 09:32.930]  I mean, if they were, otherwise it could be anybody.
[09:33.130 --> 09:39.010]  If they were being jammed and they were too far away to make phone calls, then, you know, that I, I think it's a valid question.
[09:39.230 --> 09:42.930]  And then, you know, it, it comes back to the whole heart of Twitter.
[09:43.150 --> 09:45.970]  You, you're simply broadcasting stuff out to people, people are retweeting it.
[09:46.050 --> 09:54.790]  But one thing, one thing I've learned, uh, by being in situations, not, not this bad, but situations where lots of people are being affected, you get word out somehow.
[09:54.810 --> 09:56.070]  There's always a way.
[09:56.350 --> 10:00.290]  And, okay, maybe they're jamming cell signals, but maybe somebody's got a satellite phone.
[10:00.490 --> 10:03.690]  And that's a lot, uh, how hard is it to jam a satellite phone, Bernie?
[10:04.350 --> 10:06.810]  Uh, no harder than to jam a cell phone, really.
[10:06.950 --> 10:07.890]  In fact, it may be easier.
[10:08.130 --> 10:10.990]  You're dealing with weaker, you're dealing with weaker signals.
[10:11.490 --> 10:13.190]  Oh, how about ham radio then?
[10:13.550 --> 10:14.750]  Can that come to our rescue here?
[10:14.970 --> 10:20.850]  Well, that, that, you know, odds are that the, the, the Israeli forces were using broadband RF jamming.
[10:21.010 --> 10:30.170]  And, uh, all, all reports pretty much indicate that there were no radio communication, no communications coming from the ship the moment it was boarded or shortly before it was boarded.
[10:30.250 --> 10:31.570]  It just wasn't, it wasn't happening.
[10:31.850 --> 10:37.470]  So anything you got from Twitter for the next hour and a half or so was coming from somebody who wasn't there.
[10:37.470 --> 10:45.790]  Um, now I agree Twitter can be a powerful tool, but if, if, if, if powerful forces have the ability to jam the communications, Twitter ain't happening.
[10:46.230 --> 10:53.030]  Um, or unless, unless it's going to be like, you know, speculative Twitter, you weren't, you weren't seeing live stuff from the ship.
[10:53.990 --> 10:58.310]  Do you think that, um, uh, would they be using cell phone jammers like the kinds?
[10:58.490 --> 11:03.150]  I mean, obviously more powerful kinds and the kinds we have or could have, uh, if they weren't illegal to use.
[11:03.550 --> 11:13.810]  Uh, Bernie, you said it before, and I think it bears repeating that these, these boardings took place in international waters, uh, tens of, of kilometers away from the coastline.
[11:13.970 --> 11:16.090]  I think it's fairly clear that cell phones just wouldn't work.
[11:16.170 --> 11:16.950]  There's no coverage there.
[11:17.090 --> 11:20.990]  So they were using, uh, satellite phones, uh, before they got jammed.
[11:20.990 --> 11:21.410]  Mm-hmm.
[11:21.510 --> 11:21.790]  Yes.
[11:22.050 --> 11:22.330]  Okay.
[11:22.590 --> 11:28.950]  I just think there, there might have been something they overlooked because there usually is something, uh, some, some way of communication.
[11:28.950 --> 11:33.270]  So, I mean, obviously the, the Israeli Navy had radio communication, so they couldn't jam themselves.
[11:33.510 --> 11:40.330]  Well, they could if they wanted to, but this is more of jamming somebody else's communication so they can't talk while they are still capable of coordinating.
[11:40.330 --> 11:42.050]  Right, but you have to know the frequencies they're going to use.
[11:42.210 --> 11:42.270]  Yes.
[11:42.270 --> 11:45.050]  So couldn't, couldn't you use a frequency that they're not counting on you using?
[11:45.390 --> 11:47.150]  Well, in theory you could.
[11:47.730 --> 11:47.950]  Bernie?
[11:48.090 --> 11:49.410]  It doesn't, it doesn't work that way.
[11:50.990 --> 12:00.390]  The countermeasures that, that, that, that, that militaries around the world use are, are very well designed, decades and decades of science in communications jamming.
[12:00.670 --> 12:13.610]  In, in, in a, you know, in a warfare situation, and, in Israeli government said this was a warfare situation, that's how they're justifying this, um, uh, you can effectively deny the enemy all communications, period.
[12:13.650 --> 12:15.150]  And that's what happened here.
[12:15.370 --> 12:23.770]  Now, their, their own communications, Israeli communications, are designed to work in conjunction with their jamming system, so they themselves don't get jammed.
[12:23.890 --> 12:26.610]  And I'm sure that they had their own communications that weren't being jammed.
[12:26.690 --> 12:38.990]  But, it's, it's, it's a safe bet to say there was no live communications coming from that ship, uh, shortly before it was boarded, until maybe an hour, hour and a half after, um, after that happened.
[12:39.670 --> 12:40.030]  Semaphore.
[12:40.290 --> 12:40.650]  Semaphore.
[12:40.650 --> 12:41.270]  Flashing lights.
[12:41.550 --> 12:44.590]  I mean, you know, there's alternatives, if you just think about them.
[12:45.350 --> 12:47.550]  You're relying too much on technology, Emmanuel.
[12:47.990 --> 12:52.950]  Megaphone, shouting off the side of the, that's just, you have to think, you know, outside the box a little bit.
[12:52.990 --> 12:54.330]  But, yeah, I, I, your point is taken.
[12:54.650 --> 13:00.250]  Uh, they're very effective at what they do, but it's still, it's, it's fascinating to see the story unfold, uh, in that particular way.
[13:00.330 --> 13:03.910]  And, and, uh, I guess we'll find out how, how accurate it was.
[13:03.910 --> 13:13.030]  But I want, I want to sort of use this, um, this story to move on to a different story, uh, which also hopefully will use, uh, social networking, uh, to its advantage.
[13:13.150 --> 13:20.170]  Nowhere, nowhere near as dramatic or tragic as this story, obviously, but something that, that affects us, and, um, has to do with our upcoming conference.
[13:20.310 --> 13:22.350]  By the way, uh, this is a fundraising show.
[13:22.470 --> 13:29.090]  We will be, um, um, giving out the phone number in just a moment, uh, for you to support the show, and also be, uh, playing some interesting things for you.
[13:29.290 --> 13:41.190]  Uh, but, uh, we got some, some rather, uh, disturbing news this week concerning the, uh, the fate of the hotel that we have our, our conferences at, the Hotel Pennsylvania, and it's been the host of, uh, the Hope Conference since 1994.
[13:42.130 --> 13:57.970]  And, um, recently, uh, not too long, a couple of months ago, uh, there was a community board meeting about the, uh, proposal by, uh, realty, uh, giant Vornado, uh, to, um, uh, as, as part of its renovations in the Penn Station area to tear down, uh, the,
[13:58.110 --> 14:02.150]  uh, the historic hotel, replace it with a huge office building.
[14:02.810 --> 14:04.350]  And, uh, do some other things as well.
[14:04.510 --> 14:13.330]  Uh, well, the community board, I think community board five, uh, they voted, uh, 36 to one against that particular plan.
[14:13.470 --> 14:14.750]  They voted to deny 36 to one.
[14:14.830 --> 14:19.130]  We, we heard this a couple of months ago and, uh, you know, we thought, hey, that's good news.
[14:19.250 --> 14:20.550]  And it was good news at the time.
[14:20.930 --> 14:30.010]  What, what turns out to have happened since is that, um, the, uh, Manhattan borough president, uh, who I have his name right here.
[14:30.010 --> 14:30.790]  Scott Stringer.
[14:30.870 --> 14:31.410]  Scott Stringer.
[14:31.470 --> 14:32.410]  Oh, you know his name, don't you?
[14:32.590 --> 14:32.770]  Okay.
[14:32.910 --> 14:35.970]  I think you're going to.
[14:36.130 --> 14:37.210]  I know the mayor's name.
[14:37.230 --> 14:37.970]  I never met him.
[14:38.050 --> 14:38.470]  All right.
[14:38.590 --> 14:38.830]  All right.
[14:38.890 --> 14:39.070]  Okay.
[14:39.070 --> 14:40.190]  Scott M Stringer.
[14:40.310 --> 14:49.750]  So there, uh, the, uh, Manhattan borough president, uh, said he gives it his conditional approval despite, despite this massive opposition to this.
[14:49.830 --> 15:02.830]  Now, the way it works, the way it works here in New York and probably in other cities around the world is that a community board can vote 36 to one against something, but it just takes one guy like Scott Stringer to say conditionally approve.
[15:03.050 --> 15:03.890]  And that means more.
[15:04.030 --> 15:06.950]  That means that this project is going forward.
[15:07.550 --> 15:15.450]  And, you know, I, I, I have to blame myself for not realizing how, how important this was until, uh, I, I started reading some things on the net.
[15:15.570 --> 15:20.970]  I've been extremely, uh, busy with conference organization and magazine stuff and also being in the former Yugoslavia.
[15:21.450 --> 15:38.090]  Uh, but, um, when I saw this, it, it was really shocking that they were actually planning this and they're talking about a completion date of 2014 for the 67 story office building across the street from, from, uh, Penn Station that would replace, uh, our beloved hotel.
[15:38.390 --> 15:42.010]  Which, uh, you know, obviously for us it means something because it's where the conference is.
[15:42.190 --> 15:44.450]  But think about all the other people it means something to.
[15:44.530 --> 15:47.790]  All the, they, must be thousands of people who work for the place.
[15:48.450 --> 15:52.130]  And, uh, they have, uh, um, what is it?
[15:52.190 --> 16:00.090]  1700 rooms that, uh, fill up frequently, uh, of travelers throughout the, throughout the world to come to that particular hotel.
[16:00.550 --> 16:06.870]  Uh, that would all be destroyed, replaced with, uh, an office building that no doubt would have guards around it and be closed off to just about everybody.
[16:07.770 --> 16:13.730]  And, uh, yeah, that would be the end of the hope conferences, the end of an affordable place to stay for all these people, uh, coming to the city.
[16:14.030 --> 16:27.150]  And also, um, uh, destruction of some, some real history because the place has been around since, uh, I think 1919 or, or thereabouts, uh, home of, uh, Glenn Miller Band and all kinds of other history that's happened in that place.
[16:27.150 --> 16:31.430]  Uh, but mostly, it's just because people are being ignored.
[16:31.710 --> 16:33.630]  And that's something that always rubs me the wrong way.
[16:33.830 --> 16:35.610]  Now, they, they've had meetings.
[16:35.770 --> 16:36.650]  They've had zoning meetings.
[16:37.810 --> 16:42.010]  And, unfortunately, these zoning meetings take place in the middle of the working day when most people can't make it.
[16:42.110 --> 16:43.370]  So, people don't show up.
[16:43.470 --> 16:44.270]  A lot of people don't come.
[16:44.530 --> 16:45.390]  It's inconvenient.
[16:45.810 --> 16:51.750]  In fact, one newspaper story, uh, reported on one of these zoning meetings where they were talking about destroying the hotel.
[16:51.970 --> 16:54.890]  And it said, at the end, nobody spoke up in opposition.
[16:55.490 --> 16:56.670]  Nobody spoke up in opposition.
[16:56.670 --> 16:59.270]  So, that basically is conveying that nobody cares.
[16:59.470 --> 17:02.690]  Nobody wants to, uh, see the hotel saved, which we know is not true.
[17:03.550 --> 17:10.010]  And, um, what we've been doing in the last day or so, it's really, we only found out about this, the gravity of the situation in the last day or so.
[17:10.490 --> 17:13.030]  Um, we've, uh, opened up a Twitter account, yes.
[17:13.590 --> 17:19.430]  Just to, just to get people, uh, uh, gathered in one place so we can send out a text message and reach a lot of people.
[17:19.590 --> 17:24.410]  And, instantly, we got about 100 people, 150 people, um, uh, signing onto this thing.
[17:24.910 --> 17:37.790]  What I would like to do, and I think we'd all like to do, is, is have that multiply by many times so that we can, we can say to the media, we can say to the government, look at all these people on this social networking site that immediately signed up because they care.
[17:38.410 --> 17:40.650]  You can't, you can't just say that doesn't matter.
[17:40.850 --> 17:48.050]  And, yeah, it's not, it's not the, the most important way to go about, uh, affecting social change, but it is a tool and we can use that tool.
[17:48.530 --> 17:51.530]  So, the, uh, the Twitter ID is SaveHotelPen.
[17:51.710 --> 17:53.850]  S-A-V-E-H-O-T-E-L-P-E-N-N.
[17:54.410 --> 18:01.050]  And, all you gotta do, all you have to do, anybody listening right now, is go to twitter.com and follow SaveHotelPen.
[18:01.690 --> 18:02.530]  Tell your friends to do it.
[18:02.570 --> 18:05.410]  Let's get that number up, over a thousand, and beyond.
[18:06.090 --> 18:09.790]  And, then, we have something to point to, and it's, it's one thing to point to.
[18:09.830 --> 18:11.590]  We have all kinds of other things we have to do as well.
[18:11.650 --> 18:14.630]  We have to, uh, uh, contact the, uh, Manhattan Borough President.
[18:14.710 --> 18:16.130]  We have to contact the Planning Board.
[18:16.350 --> 18:20.430]  Uh, we have to, uh, talk to commuters who, uh, who pass through that area.
[18:20.550 --> 18:22.090]  We have to talk to people staying in the hotel.
[18:22.330 --> 18:24.670]  Talk to people around the world who have stayed at the hotel.
[18:25.230 --> 18:27.590]  And, believe me, when you speak up, it makes a difference.
[18:27.710 --> 18:29.090]  I know a lot of people believe it's not true.
[18:29.270 --> 18:31.350]  They, they think you don't have the power to do something.
[18:31.610 --> 18:40.390]  But I've seen time and again where if you simply get over that and actually speak up and find yourself being listened to, believe it or not, you can change things.
[18:40.510 --> 18:44.990]  So, I really am appealing to people to, um, uh, consider this.
[18:45.130 --> 18:46.230]  Consider the importance of this.
[18:46.370 --> 18:51.010]  Consider the fact that this is really the only way we're able to have affordable conferences in the middle of Manhattan.
[18:51.010 --> 18:52.790]  That would not happen anymore without this place.
[18:53.130 --> 19:05.570]  And also, consider the fact that it's existed for so long with so many rooms, so many stories, so many people have come through there from all parts of the world over the decades, almost a century of memories from that place.
[19:05.990 --> 19:09.070]  And, think of all the memories that will not happen in the future.
[19:09.290 --> 19:22.810]  Think of all the people who will be denied access, uh, to the city because there's no affordable place And, yeah, we'll have a big 67-story office building in a tanking economy where such a thing isn't supportable in the first place.
[19:22.810 --> 19:23.670]  It makes no sense.
[19:23.770 --> 19:31.610]  It's just the way some corporation is making money at the expense of people who are really using a valuable tool.
[19:31.810 --> 19:33.150]  And it is successful.
[19:33.390 --> 19:34.490]  The place is full all the time.
[19:34.490 --> 19:35.230]  It's always crowded.
[19:35.490 --> 19:37.330]  So it's not a failing business model.
[19:37.390 --> 19:38.270]  It's a very successful one.
[19:38.270 --> 19:40.970]  So Twitter.com slash SaveHotelPen.
[19:41.050 --> 19:45.570]  And also there's a big story on 2600.com with all kinds of links and things like that.
[19:45.630 --> 19:46.370]  This is only the beginning.
[19:46.570 --> 19:49.350]  We're going to start all kinds of actions.
[19:49.710 --> 19:51.250]  And we want your advice.
[19:51.510 --> 20:02.510]  Our email address, hotel at 2600.com, if you have anything you can offer, any kind of resources or abilities or advice or anything like that, we certainly would love to hear from you.
[20:03.010 --> 20:04.090]  Bernie, I think you had something to say.
[20:04.170 --> 20:04.350]  Go ahead.
[20:04.350 --> 20:22.650]  Yeah, you made a really good point off the air earlier that this 1700-room hotel is really one of the only places that visitors to New York can afford to stay in that's like right off of Penn Station where you can just like walk to your hotel and, you know,
[20:22.710 --> 20:25.030]  it's right in the middle of everything for the most part.
[20:25.510 --> 20:27.950]  There really aren't many resources like that.
[20:28.170 --> 20:39.430]  I mean, that's one of the reasons that we choose it for the Hope Conference, but not just, you know, that might have been self-serving that we were, you know, we want to save it because of the conference and that, you know, I'm not ashamed about that.
[20:39.530 --> 20:51.190]  But, you know, the other 362 days of the year, millions of people come and go through this place and get to see New York that might not have otherwise been able to afford it.
[20:51.190 --> 20:52.330]  And, of course, there's a lot of great memories.
[20:52.790 --> 21:01.670]  My dear Aunt Helen had her 45th... 45... in 1945, she had her honeymoon at the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[21:01.870 --> 21:02.150]  Wow.
[21:02.650 --> 21:08.090]  Her new husband came to New York City from Pennsylvania and they danced to Glenn Miller and it was just a wonderful place.
[21:08.090 --> 21:09.070]  So I sent her a postcard.
[21:09.330 --> 21:12.550]  Every time we had the Hope Conference, I sent her a postcard from there because it brings back good memories.
[21:12.650 --> 21:16.090]  The biggest criticism I hear of the place is that it's run down and it's old.
[21:16.250 --> 21:17.010]  And, yeah, you know what?
[21:17.010 --> 21:19.290]  It is a bit run down and it is definitely old.
[21:21.190 --> 21:27.710]  You can simply wipe it away and destroy it and replace it with some monolith that is going to be all restricted access.
[21:28.010 --> 21:28.990]  You make it better.
[21:29.250 --> 21:35.770]  You learn from the past and you celebrate the past, learn from the history, that kind of thing.
[21:35.850 --> 21:39.870]  Yeah, there are so many stories like the story you just told that have taken place.
[21:39.970 --> 21:46.510]  And, you know, if you're unfamiliar with the place and you happen to be in New York, I suggest that you simply go there.
[21:46.510 --> 21:50.130]  You simply go to the hotel, which is right across the street from Penn Station on 7th Avenue.
[21:50.230 --> 21:52.010]  I think it's 701 7th Avenue.
[21:52.190 --> 21:57.950]  And just walk into the lobby, hang out there for 20 minutes and just watch all the excitement around you.
[21:58.090 --> 22:05.570]  In that one lobby, you'll see people from all different countries, all around the world, passing through, excited to be in New York for the first time in their lives.
[22:05.570 --> 22:08.790]  And you'll see things that you'll remember.
[22:09.070 --> 22:16.290]  And that's the kind of thing that is worth preserving, having that as a gateway to the city, because that's how people see New York for the first time.
[22:17.050 --> 22:19.250]  And, yeah, that's more important than our conferences.
[22:19.270 --> 22:21.390]  But our conferences are pretty damn important, too.
[22:21.430 --> 22:23.930]  And we want to keep those going past 2010.
[22:24.390 --> 22:33.970]  But, honestly, if this place is not around, I don't see how that's possible, because there's no place in New York that we could afford that has the kind of space that we need.
[22:34.390 --> 22:37.630]  We'd have to go someplace else, or if we do it at all.
[22:38.630 --> 22:42.250]  The issue I keep hearing, basically, we're all circling around, is accessibility.
[22:42.650 --> 22:52.330]  You know, you have a comparatively cheap hotel that people from all around the world are able to come to, to experience New York, even contribute to the economy in whatever way that they do.
[22:52.750 --> 22:57.590]  And, you know, great conferences where you have 3,000 hackers from around the world coming.
[22:57.750 --> 22:59.310]  That kind of stuff wouldn't be able to happen otherwise.
[22:59.510 --> 23:01.910]  This accessibility is very important.
[23:02.030 --> 23:03.710]  And we have the support.
[23:03.850 --> 23:06.190]  Lots of people do really care about this hotel.
[23:06.450 --> 23:10.730]  It's just a matter of getting people like the borough president to see all those people.
[23:11.050 --> 23:11.450]  Absolutely.
[23:11.650 --> 23:11.850]  Yeah.
[23:12.010 --> 23:18.650]  I mean, we have to take our share of responsibility for not speaking up loudly enough in a period where we thought things were safe, because things are never safe.
[23:18.650 --> 23:29.550]  The economy proved that it was a stupid idea to build a brand new office building when there were no possible tenants and to replace a popular hotel.
[23:30.330 --> 23:36.490]  And then after all that, when people spoke out against it simply to move ahead anyway, it's the height of arrogance.
[23:36.490 --> 23:37.830]  And we need to speak out against it.
[23:37.830 --> 23:44.850]  Again, hotel at 2600.com is email address to send information if you have any or if you'd like to get involved somehow.
[23:45.170 --> 23:51.290]  And join the Twitter ID, twitter.com slash savehotelpenn, and read the story on 2600.com.
[23:51.290 --> 24:03.710]  Again, the more people we get on that Twitter account, the better, because if you approach the mainstream media, like say you go to Channel 5 or something like that, and you say, hey, all these people are opposed to this.
[24:03.950 --> 24:04.490]  Look at this.
[24:04.570 --> 24:08.430]  We have 10,000 people on Twitter that are dead set against it.
[24:08.730 --> 24:18.450]  Even though we all know that's stupid, even though we all know that it's Twitter and it's ridiculous, but you point to the mainstream media, that wakes them up a little bit.
[24:18.450 --> 24:23.390]  Whereas if you say, look at this, we have eight people opposed to it, they're going to laugh at you.
[24:23.530 --> 24:25.310]  So you have to, those numbers have to go up.
[24:25.390 --> 24:30.430]  I know, it's ridiculous that that's how we have to play the game, but that is how we have to play the game.
[24:30.510 --> 24:31.950]  And it's not just for New Yorkers.
[24:32.030 --> 24:33.450]  This is for people around the world.
[24:33.510 --> 24:43.790]  No matter where you're listening from, if this matters to you, even if you've never been to New York, this is something that should matter, because it's like that would be the place you stay if you came here, especially if you came to a HOPE conference.
[24:44.350 --> 24:47.830]  All right, we need to move on, because as I said, this is a fundraising show.
[24:48.450 --> 24:51.370]  We are offering a couple of things tonight.
[24:51.370 --> 24:56.110]  In fact, we're kind of going against what we usually say.
[24:56.250 --> 24:57.630]  We usually offer something different every week.
[24:57.890 --> 25:04.710]  This week, we're offering the same thing we offered last week, which is basically two levels of...
[25:04.710 --> 25:15.010]  Well, you could either get the Off the Hook archive, which is every single show that we've done from 1988 to 2009 in full high-fidelity sound quality.
[25:15.670 --> 25:18.470]  And we're going to play an excerpt from one of those shows in just a moment.
[25:19.150 --> 25:22.850]  That's for a pledge of $75 to 212-209-2950.
[25:23.230 --> 25:29.110]  So that's a whole lot of hours of Off the Hook, more than I think a lot of people can handle in one sitting.
[25:29.270 --> 25:36.670]  But, well, we know people like Ed Piskor and other people throughout the country have listened to many, many shows.
[25:36.890 --> 25:38.870]  And it's been therapeutic for them, I think.
[25:38.870 --> 25:42.970]  I think if you did it in one sitting, you would be stuck to the chair at the end.
[25:43.030 --> 25:43.530]  You would be, yeah.
[25:43.530 --> 25:44.530]  It would be a very long time.
[25:45.030 --> 25:45.870]  Yeah, most definitely.
[25:45.950 --> 25:47.290]  I mean, we're talking, what, thousands of hours?
[25:47.410 --> 25:48.070]  Something like that.
[25:48.090 --> 25:50.930]  It's a really good deal and a lot less than what it usually goes for.
[25:51.890 --> 25:54.530]  So, pledge of 212-209-2950.
[25:54.670 --> 26:07.790]  A pledge of $125 gets you the full archive of all the shows of Off the Hook and the, what is it, the Last Hope, what do we call it again?
[26:07.790 --> 26:09.730]  The Last Hope, Best Of, or...
[26:09.730 --> 26:11.090]  I remember there were 20.
[26:11.250 --> 26:12.050]  20 DVDs.
[26:12.070 --> 26:15.810]  20 DVDs, yes, of Hope Talks.
[26:16.210 --> 26:22.230]  I think we did, last week we excerpted something from Electronic Voting, and that was a very interesting conversation.
[26:23.130 --> 26:25.570]  All kinds of panels, just a taste of what Hope is all about.
[26:25.650 --> 26:33.010]  But for a pledge of $125, you get all of that, 20 DVDs plus the, how many DVDs are involved in the Hope, in the Off the Hook set?
[26:33.170 --> 26:34.170]  Another 20 or so, at least.
[26:34.210 --> 26:34.950]  Something like that, yeah.
[26:34.950 --> 26:42.310]  So, you're getting about 40 DVDs filled with audio and video for a pledge of $125, 212-209-2950.
[26:42.310 --> 26:47.590]  And everybody pledging $35 and above gets an Off the Hook t-shirt in the size of your choice.
[26:47.790 --> 26:51.710]  So, the number, 212-209-2950, give us a call.
[26:51.830 --> 26:54.810]  Now, I'd like to play an excerpt from one of these shows.
[26:55.210 --> 26:59.430]  This goes back to, I believe, the year 2000.
[27:00.490 --> 27:03.510]  Yes, set your memory back there.
[27:04.390 --> 27:06.730]  The date was February 1st, 2000.
[27:06.890 --> 27:12.090]  Now, that was a very historic period for us, because Kevin Mitnick had just gotten out of prison.
[27:12.270 --> 27:13.510]  He had just gotten out of prison.
[27:14.470 --> 27:19.310]  And at the same time, we were being sued by the Motion Picture Association of America.
[27:19.530 --> 27:22.830]  So, I had just gotten back from California, where Kevin had been released.
[27:23.230 --> 27:26.750]  And we're going to tell a story about what that was like, dealing with the mainstream media.
[27:27.650 --> 27:32.850]  This is only one of many, many stories that are contained in the DVD set.
[27:33.030 --> 27:35.370]  212-209-2950.
[27:35.410 --> 27:37.090]  Please give us a call while this is playing.
[27:37.270 --> 27:41.710]  It's Emanuel here with you for another exciting, action-packed edition of Off the Hook.
[27:41.790 --> 27:42.930]  Isaac over on the other side of the room.
[27:43.050 --> 27:43.630]  How are you doing, sir?
[27:43.730 --> 27:45.310]  Oh, you don't want to know.
[27:45.450 --> 27:45.990]  You don't want to know.
[27:46.090 --> 27:46.530]  You shouldn't have asked.
[27:46.630 --> 27:48.430]  On the phone with us, Bernie S.
[27:48.590 --> 27:51.290]  and Mackie, coming from Philadelphia and California, respectively.
[27:51.490 --> 27:52.070]  Say hello, gentlemen.
[27:52.570 --> 27:53.030]  Good evening.
[27:53.470 --> 27:53.910]  Hello.
[27:55.390 --> 27:56.850]  And I don't think...
[27:56.850 --> 27:58.270]  We haven't been on for the last three weeks.
[27:58.330 --> 28:06.090]  I don't think if you could have plotted and schemed and planned this out for many years, you could have picked a worse time for us to be off for three weeks.
[28:06.110 --> 28:07.310]  But that's what happened.
[28:07.650 --> 28:09.270]  That's the luck of the draw.
[28:09.550 --> 28:14.150]  And we have so much to talk about tonight that we better get right into it.
[28:14.250 --> 28:19.070]  First, let's start off with, of course, the big story of Kevin Mitnick being released, finally.
[28:19.730 --> 28:20.230]  Who's that?
[28:20.230 --> 28:20.850]  Yes, it happened.
[28:20.990 --> 28:21.450]  It happened.
[28:21.570 --> 28:24.010]  Isaac, you can go read the remedial text in the other room.
[28:25.550 --> 28:29.590]  After almost five years in prison, Kevin is finally free.
[28:29.790 --> 28:35.950]  Although, again, the definition of free is kind of open to interpretation because there's so much that he cannot do.
[28:36.670 --> 28:39.250]  But a bunch of us went out there to California.
[28:40.370 --> 28:43.490]  And actually, everybody here was out there except for you, Bernie.
[28:44.150 --> 28:45.630]  You were the only one back on the East Coast.
[28:45.870 --> 28:46.510]  Well, I couldn't...
[28:46.510 --> 28:52.910]  As a convicted felon, I couldn't associate with Kevin without violating the terms of his supervised release.
[28:53.050 --> 28:54.430]  I didn't want to put him at any risk.
[28:54.470 --> 28:56.570]  That's just one of the things, one of the conditions.
[28:56.770 --> 28:59.770]  Yes, Kevin cannot talk to anybody who is a convicted felon.
[28:59.770 --> 29:03.170]  And I thought that was kind of interesting because Kevin Paulson is one of the people.
[29:03.310 --> 29:04.730]  He's a reporter for ZDTV.
[29:05.510 --> 29:10.830]  And he had been in communication a couple of times with Kevin.
[29:10.830 --> 29:12.730]  I believe they did an interview a while back.
[29:13.210 --> 29:15.790]  And he was able to communicate with him while he was in prison.
[29:15.830 --> 29:18.490]  But as soon as Kevin left prison, he was no longer able to talk to him.
[29:18.990 --> 29:19.390]  That's right.
[29:19.470 --> 29:20.510]  Prisons are full of felons.
[29:20.630 --> 29:24.710]  So it would kind of be self-defeating to put that restriction on him while he was locked up.
[29:24.950 --> 29:25.090]  Yeah.
[29:25.350 --> 29:28.110]  Among the other conditions, Kevin, of course, cannot have a computer.
[29:28.290 --> 29:29.270]  He cannot be on the Internet.
[29:29.870 --> 29:35.390]  The thing that really is frustrating, though, is the fact that he can't have a cellular phone or talk on a cellular phone.
[29:35.630 --> 29:45.590]  And that came up a couple of times when we were all hanging out out there in California where, you know, he was out and we were just kind of hanging out, you know, in a public place.
[29:45.590 --> 29:48.030]  And there was somebody on the phone that we were talking to.
[29:48.370 --> 29:51.510]  And there was one case where somebody needed to get to where we were.
[29:51.610 --> 29:53.830]  And none of us were familiar with the area, but Kevin was.
[29:53.970 --> 29:55.830]  Kevin was the only person who could tell them how to get there.
[29:55.970 --> 30:02.150]  So, of course, you know, one of the people we were with in total innocence just hands him the phone and says, hey, you tell him.
[30:02.370 --> 30:04.130]  You should have seen the look on Kevin's face.
[30:04.890 --> 30:06.690]  It was like he was being shot at.
[30:06.770 --> 30:08.850]  He just kind of backed away from the thing.
[30:09.210 --> 30:09.950]  Directly to jail.
[30:10.150 --> 30:10.830]  Yeah, exactly.
[30:10.990 --> 30:12.850]  And that's the kind of silliness that we're dealing with here.
[30:12.970 --> 30:15.010]  We're dealing with, you know, talking to cellular phone.
[30:15.010 --> 30:15.710]  And that's it.
[30:15.850 --> 30:16.510]  You know, it's a violation.
[30:16.730 --> 30:18.410]  So we have to be very, very careful.
[30:19.550 --> 30:29.890]  Now, to describe the mood, well, it's really a very bizarre case because we went out there a couple of days earlier, went to Lompoc, Texas, no, Lompoc, California.
[30:30.330 --> 30:31.370]  Is there a Lompoc, Texas?
[30:31.530 --> 30:32.110]  It sounds like...
[30:32.110 --> 30:32.570]  I hope not.
[30:32.810 --> 30:33.330]  Lubbock, Texas.
[30:33.470 --> 30:34.010]  That's what I'm thinking of.
[30:34.050 --> 30:37.430]  Now, we might as well have been there, though, because this place is in the middle of nowhere.
[30:37.690 --> 30:38.170]  It really is.
[30:38.450 --> 30:39.530]  Total desolation.
[30:39.870 --> 30:41.630]  Couldn't ask for a better place to build a prison.
[30:42.130 --> 30:43.510]  And build prisons they did.
[30:44.250 --> 30:45.250]  How many prisons were there?
[30:45.390 --> 30:48.290]  There was the prison he was in.
[30:48.370 --> 30:51.250]  There was the federal penitentiary, which is the really nasty one.
[30:51.610 --> 30:53.530]  And then there was a camp, which he wasn't in.
[30:53.690 --> 30:55.930]  And then there's, I think, an Air Force base right next to that?
[30:56.050 --> 30:57.450]  Yeah, that's Vandenberg Air Force Base.
[30:57.510 --> 31:01.990]  So, I mean, they got the whole system right there on one mountain or whatever.
[31:02.210 --> 31:03.270]  What's wrong with the Air Force base?
[31:03.270 --> 31:04.930]  Why are they right next to a prison?
[31:05.030 --> 31:06.230]  Why don't you ask yourself that?
[31:06.410 --> 31:07.530]  Well, I would assume that the Air Force base is in the prison.
[31:07.530 --> 31:09.290]  Would you build a school next to a prison?
[31:10.010 --> 31:10.910]  No, but you know...
[31:10.910 --> 31:11.210]  I think that's pretty common.
[31:11.670 --> 31:15.510]  Over in Fort Dix, New Jersey, there's a federal prison next to that.
[31:15.510 --> 31:19.470]  I think they consider it a consolidation of federal property.
[31:19.630 --> 31:23.570]  They can sort of save money and put them all in one location.
[31:23.910 --> 31:27.730]  Plus, you have people being transferred back and forth from one to the other on an almost daily basis.
[31:28.350 --> 31:31.030]  So, it's, I guess, convenient.
[31:31.530 --> 31:35.910]  But we went there a day or so early and just kind of scoped out the thing.
[31:35.950 --> 31:39.590]  In fact, I even visited Kevin in prison on his very last day there.
[31:39.930 --> 31:42.750]  And it wasn't that bad a place.
[31:42.890 --> 31:44.350]  You got to use the phone thing and the glass?
[31:44.410 --> 31:46.310]  No, it's not like on Sopranos.
[31:47.490 --> 31:57.250]  It's, you know, in real life, you walk in, at least in this kind of a prison, you walk in and you hang out inside a room, kind of like when Phiber Optik was in prison, where we just, you know, bought him stuff from the vending machines.
[31:57.730 --> 31:59.590]  And hung out for a couple hours.
[31:59.970 --> 32:05.130]  So, on the very last day, I was able to see Kevin in that environment.
[32:05.470 --> 32:09.090]  You know, it doesn't seem that bad when you just go in, you know, as a visitor.
[32:09.230 --> 32:12.030]  But when you realize these people can't leave, they're stuck there.
[32:12.130 --> 32:14.210]  They have to deal with this every single day.
[32:14.650 --> 32:15.390]  It's hell.
[32:15.570 --> 32:16.330]  It really is hell.
[32:16.470 --> 32:18.250]  And I was pretty happy to get out.
[32:18.470 --> 32:28.770]  I should mention, Emmanuel, that the visiting areas usually are not nearly as bad as what's behind the visiting areas, areas that visitors don't ever actually get to see.
[32:30.090 --> 32:35.330]  For instance, the place in eastern Pennsylvania where I was held, it was built in the 1860s.
[32:35.530 --> 32:42.370]  It was a rather modern visiting room, but when you got back into the bowels of the place where I was held, it was a completely different story.
[32:42.370 --> 32:45.130]  So, you can't just judge a place by what the visiting room looks like.
[32:45.810 --> 32:46.170]  Absolutely.
[32:46.470 --> 32:46.770]  Absolutely.
[32:47.490 --> 32:50.770]  Although, I was kind of intimidated by the whole procedure.
[32:51.030 --> 32:52.130]  I mean, they put you through...
[32:52.490 --> 32:58.390]  For some reason, I had to take my belt off, and then they gave it back to me after I walked through the little barricade or whatever.
[32:58.550 --> 33:02.430]  I guess I could have been concealing something inside my belt or on the belt or whatever.
[33:02.690 --> 33:03.810]  But they gave that to me.
[33:03.970 --> 33:07.530]  They stamped my hand with something you could only see under a blacklight.
[33:08.170 --> 33:13.810]  And they took my driver's license, and they also made me empty my pockets, except for the change I was bringing for the vending machines.
[33:14.710 --> 33:18.790]  And then when I went out, I had to hold my hand up to the light again.
[33:18.790 --> 33:21.290]  They had to look at my face through the driver's license.
[33:21.530 --> 33:30.270]  I'm wondering, has someone ever actually succeeded in somehow breaking out that way by not having their hand stamped and by the face not exactly matching the driver's?
[33:30.270 --> 33:30.670]  I don't know.
[33:30.790 --> 33:33.790]  It seems really pretty amazing.
[33:33.990 --> 33:37.230]  And they checked it twice within, say, 10 seconds.
[33:37.230 --> 33:43.150]  One person looked at it, then another person looked at it, as if I could somehow beam in from behind the walls and be there.
[33:43.290 --> 33:45.270]  And it was pretty silly.
[33:45.270 --> 33:46.970]  Well, these are the kind of procedures they follow.
[33:47.150 --> 33:50.310]  And you have two people, double-check in case one of them is...
[33:50.310 --> 33:50.670]  An idiot?
[33:51.050 --> 33:51.170]  Yeah.
[33:51.470 --> 33:52.030]  Basically, yeah.
[33:52.430 --> 33:54.030]  Plenty of idiots there, I can tell you that.
[33:54.070 --> 33:55.930]  I'm sure Kevin will have more details.
[33:56.050 --> 33:56.590]  And that's the other thing.
[33:56.670 --> 33:58.110]  Kevin is going to be on the show next week.
[33:58.250 --> 33:58.430]  Really?
[33:58.590 --> 34:00.450]  Yeah, we'll have Kevin talking to us live.
[34:00.910 --> 34:04.330]  This will be the first ever live conversation with Kevin Mitnick.
[34:04.430 --> 34:06.990]  Now, you may have seen the thing on 60 Minutes a couple of weeks ago.
[34:07.730 --> 34:09.390]  He wasn't very happy with that either.
[34:10.290 --> 34:13.070]  Although, I've got to tell you, he was pretty bummed out by the whole thing.
[34:13.150 --> 34:16.590]  But I think he himself wound up looking pretty good as far as a person.
[34:16.830 --> 34:21.150]  He wound up coming off as a fairly pleasant person to be around.
[34:21.250 --> 34:24.210]  And that really is the person that he is in real life.
[34:24.790 --> 34:28.590]  Not someone who's a shady character like you might see on the front page of the New York Times.
[34:28.610 --> 34:32.710]  Just someone who's like anyone else you'd want to hang out with.
[34:32.830 --> 34:37.150]  So hopefully we'll get a chance to talk to him one-on-one next week.
[34:37.270 --> 34:38.450]  That's right here on Off the Hook.
[34:40.310 --> 34:41.850]  So, what wound up happening...
[34:41.850 --> 34:43.270]  Maybe, Mackie, you could go into this a little bit more.
[34:43.370 --> 34:49.070]  For some reason, we wound up being the ones that were shepherding the media people all over the place up there in Lompoc.
[34:49.150 --> 34:49.770]  How did that happen?
[34:49.770 --> 34:51.750]  Yeah, that was pretty intense.
[34:52.030 --> 34:58.270]  Well, I guess we were in closer contact with Kevin and his family than most of the press.
[34:58.490 --> 35:08.670]  So, we actually, on our way to actually updating the website at a Kinko's, we ran into an NBC News fan.
[35:08.870 --> 35:14.470]  By the way, we'll tell the story as to why we were running to a Kinko's to update the website.
[35:14.470 --> 35:18.590]  In the middle of the night, this was about 1 a.m.
[35:19.090 --> 35:20.430]  on the Friday morning.
[35:21.550 --> 35:29.150]  And, yeah, they were a bit lost, and they had just gotten kicked off of federal property while they were trying to set up their radio antennas.
[35:29.930 --> 35:36.510]  And I told them, say, hey, we'll coordinate all the media stuff since everyone's going to be getting kicked off of federal property.
[35:37.130 --> 35:43.910]  So, we went and we scoped out a place down the road, which was just outside the city limits.
[35:43.910 --> 35:45.290]  There's some sort of sign there.
[35:45.490 --> 35:48.330]  We figured, okay, there's a nice big shoulder here.
[35:48.630 --> 35:51.330]  We can have Kevin read his statement when he gets out.
[35:51.950 --> 35:53.250]  Does somebody have a train going by?
[35:54.010 --> 35:55.250]  Yeah, yeah.
[35:55.850 --> 35:57.750]  Okay, I just thought I heard a train, that's all.
[35:57.930 --> 35:58.970]  Oh, the train.
[35:59.450 --> 36:00.730]  It's actually pretty far away.
[36:00.930 --> 36:21.070]  Anyways, so when Kevin got out and we escorted everyone, you pulled the car out, and the whole swarms of media, there were at least three different crews there, sorry, 30 different crews there, all followed us in a huge caravan down the road to this little place on the shoulder.
[36:22.450 --> 36:25.030]  And Kevin himself didn't know exactly where we were going.
[36:25.130 --> 36:28.810]  In fact, Kevin's aunt was driving the car, so we had to tell them, hey, follow us.
[36:28.890 --> 36:33.450]  We know a place where you can read your statement, because that's what Kevin wanted to do, read the statement to the press.
[36:33.450 --> 36:34.830]  So follow us there.
[36:35.250 --> 36:39.690]  There's a little tiny two-lane highway out in this rural area.
[36:39.970 --> 36:50.430]  And so we get there, and we both pull over, us and Kevin's car, and all the media starts setting up, and it's just a huge traffic jam.
[36:50.790 --> 36:58.730]  And immediately a white sedan of some sort of federal agents pull up and say, Mr. Mitnick, you can't be here.
[36:59.790 --> 37:04.530]  This belongs to the Air Force, and you have to keep moving.
[37:04.650 --> 37:05.690]  Actually, they called him Kevin.
[37:05.850 --> 37:07.310]  I thought that was kind of nice.
[37:07.490 --> 37:09.970]  But yeah, they're so obviously feds.
[37:10.030 --> 37:11.110]  Big fat feds, too.
[37:11.450 --> 37:12.750]  The tiny you see on TV.
[37:13.010 --> 37:16.390]  They just, you know, as soon as they pulled up and got out of the car, those are feds.
[37:16.610 --> 37:18.350]  Yeah, they had a little pin on their lapels.
[37:19.190 --> 37:20.510]  But you don't even need the pin.
[37:20.550 --> 37:21.350]  You don't even need the lapel.
[37:21.430 --> 37:22.050]  Just the face.
[37:22.150 --> 37:22.910]  It's a fed face.
[37:23.030 --> 37:24.230]  I don't know how to describe it.
[37:24.770 --> 37:26.870]  You know, if you watch TV, you'll see these kind of people.
[37:26.930 --> 37:27.850]  They really do exist.
[37:28.010 --> 37:28.470]  They breed them.
[37:28.730 --> 37:29.970]  Yeah, it was pretty spooky.
[37:30.130 --> 37:34.270]  But it turns out that where we were was also federal property, because that was part of the Air Force Base.
[37:34.450 --> 37:34.730]  Right, right.
[37:35.050 --> 37:44.290]  So we had to make a U-turn, and all the media, there was just traffic jam, so they had to kind of like pull over and let us by, because no one else knew where we were going.
[37:44.690 --> 37:54.890]  At this point, we didn't even really know where we were going, but the federal agents told us, oh, well, in the other direction, you can get past the prison, and it's not federal property.
[37:55.150 --> 37:56.410]  Yeah, just go away.
[37:56.410 --> 37:58.050]  And there's nowhere to pull over.
[37:58.290 --> 37:58.490]  Yeah.
[37:58.670 --> 38:02.630]  So we pull over into a truck yard, which was pretty big and pretty empty.
[38:02.750 --> 38:03.830]  We were, oh, there's enough space here.
[38:04.750 --> 38:09.190]  And we hoped, well, we could maybe pay off the foreman and just use the parking lot for a while.
[38:09.650 --> 38:19.510]  I walked up and I talked to the foreman who was just coming out of the building wondering what these 30 or so minivans just suddenly pulling into his driveway was all about.
[38:19.670 --> 38:22.350]  I said, look, this guy just got out of prison.
[38:22.470 --> 38:23.930]  He needs to make a statement to the press.
[38:24.030 --> 38:25.070]  Do you think maybe you could...
[38:25.070 --> 38:29.710]  I didn't even get the sentence finished before he said, you're going to have to move out of here because I've got a business to run.
[38:29.710 --> 38:41.110]  And so we were kind of worried that, you know, the next couple of hours would be spent driving aimlessly around roads in California with 30 different press outlets behind us.
[38:41.230 --> 38:41.890]  It was kind of...
[38:41.890 --> 38:58.350]  By the time we found out that we couldn't stay, our two cars were already surrounded by cameras and some agencies already had their transmitting towers up and we kind of had to stand there keeping them away from Kevin's car.
[38:58.490 --> 38:59.930]  A real feeding frenzy.
[39:00.130 --> 39:00.310]  Yeah.
[39:01.430 --> 39:06.730]  So, yeah, so a local reporter knew of a park not far away.
[39:07.230 --> 39:10.370]  Yes, I'm very happy that person was there because we never would have found that park.
[39:10.370 --> 39:11.250]  The park was perfect.
[39:11.350 --> 39:12.250]  We all went to the park.
[39:12.390 --> 39:13.850]  And that's where Kevin wound up giving his statement.
[39:14.450 --> 39:16.390]  And what a happy thing to that story.
[39:16.470 --> 39:16.670]  Wow.
[39:16.830 --> 39:17.870]  That brings back memories.
[39:18.010 --> 39:20.430]  That's from January... actually February of 2000.
[39:20.430 --> 39:25.050]  The events happened in January of 2000 when Kevin Mitnick was released from prison.
[39:25.210 --> 39:28.450]  We were there and we told the story here on the radio.
[39:28.610 --> 39:34.470]  That's part of the package that you'll get of every single show that we've recorded since 1988 to the end of 2009.
[39:34.470 --> 39:42.730]  If you call now, 212-209-2950, pledge $75, you'll get 20-plus DVDs filled with audio.
[39:42.970 --> 39:45.370]  One, I think, about 50 hours per DVD.
[39:45.590 --> 39:47.630]  It's an incredible amount of material.
[39:47.670 --> 39:56.130]  If you pledge $125, you'll get another 20 DVDs filled with highlights from the Last Hope Conference in 2008, which took place here in New York City.
[39:56.230 --> 39:57.090]  So it's a great deal.
[39:57.470 --> 40:00.030]  But again, we're only offering that until 8 o'clock.
[40:00.150 --> 40:03.670]  After 8 o'clock, you can still support the station, but you won't get those premiums.
[40:03.670 --> 40:03.930]  Why?
[40:04.090 --> 40:07.030]  Because we can't afford to give all that away all the time.
[40:07.030 --> 40:09.510]  Only during this one hour per week, we're able to do this.
[40:09.690 --> 40:11.250]  And we won't be offering that next week.
[40:11.290 --> 40:12.670]  I can promise you that.
[40:12.830 --> 40:14.230]  212-209-2950.
[40:14.230 --> 40:15.310]  We have one call on the line.
[40:15.590 --> 40:17.510]  We should make that about 5, I think, right?
[40:17.650 --> 40:21.230]  There's only about 20 minutes left that people have to call and pledge.
[40:21.370 --> 40:21.650]  That's right.
[40:22.050 --> 40:25.910]  We have an excerpt from the Hope Conference we're going to play, but we want to see some calls come in first.
[40:26.150 --> 40:31.550]  Yeah, we even had people email us saying, can we get the premiums from last week for this week?
[40:31.690 --> 40:33.010]  And, you know...
[40:33.010 --> 40:33.890]  Yeah, we want to...
[40:33.890 --> 40:38.170]  So if any of you are out there listening, don't, you know, wait till the show's over and do it again.
[40:38.390 --> 40:38.930]  Call now.
[40:39.070 --> 40:43.870]  Yeah, and those of you who listen afterwards, well, you know, you're still alive at this period of time.
[40:43.890 --> 40:46.210]  If you're not listening to the radio, you can still make the phone call.
[40:46.330 --> 40:46.650]  That's true.
[40:46.650 --> 40:53.430]  Set an alarm if you're in Sweden or something, and wake up and call us between 7 and 8 Eastern time, and you can get whatever it is we're offering.
[40:53.430 --> 40:57.650]  Even if you don't know what that is, you can call and ask, and the people on the other end will be happy to help you out.
[40:57.870 --> 41:02.710]  Now, we're offering, actually, a couple other things, too, just to make things even easier for people.
[41:02.770 --> 41:05.330]  You know, I wrote this down, and I moved the piece of paper that I wrote it down on.
[41:05.810 --> 41:12.750]  But basically, like I said, for $75, you'll get the Off the Hook archive, every show we've recorded for over 20 years.
[41:13.350 --> 41:20.410]  For $125, you get that, plus the Last Hope 20 DVD set for a pledge of $125, 212-209-2950.
[41:20.410 --> 41:24.130]  You also get the Off the Hook t-shirt for every pledge, $35, and above.
[41:24.430 --> 41:37.090]  Now, what we're also offering for a different pledge of $75 is five years of 2600 Magazine, five-year back issues, starting from this issue and going back five years, I believe.
[41:37.390 --> 41:41.750]  For 125, 10 years of back issues of 2600 Magazine.
[41:42.050 --> 41:51.470]  So there's all different kinds of things you can get here, all different kinds of fun things that we've thrown into the mix for people to thank them for pledging to the radio station.
[41:51.610 --> 42:00.830]  And of course, if you want everything, a pledge of $250 gets you 10 years, back issues of 2600, the Off the Hook archive, the Last Hope DVD set, and the Off the Hook t-shirt.
[42:00.970 --> 42:05.170]  There's all kinds of pledge levels, from $35 to $250 and beyond.
[42:05.370 --> 42:08.970]  But you've got to give a call now, 212-209-2950.
[42:08.970 --> 42:11.650]  We need to have a good showing this week.
[42:11.890 --> 42:14.830]  We've had decent showings for all the weeks except for the first one.
[42:14.950 --> 42:16.550]  So let's not make this one like the first week.
[42:16.690 --> 42:19.110]  Let's make this one like the second or the third week.
[42:19.410 --> 42:19.790]  Yeah.
[42:20.090 --> 42:21.970]  And then there won't have to be many more weeks.
[42:22.670 --> 42:28.290]  I mean, it's by pledging that you show us and show the radio station that you want us to stay on the air.
[42:28.650 --> 42:31.450]  If no one pledges, then we just assume no one cares.
[42:31.730 --> 42:32.570]  And two people are pledging.
[42:32.690 --> 42:33.530]  Two people are pledging.
[42:33.750 --> 42:34.650]  So someone cares.
[42:34.770 --> 42:35.210]  Yeah, we are.
[42:35.630 --> 42:39.370]  And we're up to $556,000, which I don't think is our show.
[42:39.530 --> 42:40.430]  I think that's what...
[42:40.430 --> 42:41.530]  That's not our show, right?
[42:41.710 --> 42:42.390]  That would be...
[42:42.390 --> 42:43.090]  Wouldn't that be something?
[42:43.230 --> 42:44.530]  It would be almost impossible.
[42:44.810 --> 42:46.190]  No, nothing's impossible, Mike.
[42:46.190 --> 42:47.070]  You have to believe.
[42:47.350 --> 42:48.950]  Believe anything's possible.
[42:49.150 --> 42:53.830]  If you have $100,000 spare dollars just sitting around lining your bank account, call and donate it.
[42:53.870 --> 42:54.650]  Do you know what people have said?
[42:54.690 --> 42:56.470]  People have said things are impossible.
[42:56.650 --> 42:59.990]  They've said you can't have a conference in the middle of New York City.
[43:00.050 --> 43:04.570]  You can't publish a magazine that has hacking information in it and not go to jail.
[43:04.570 --> 43:12.270]  You can't do a radio show on a radio station in the middle of New York City that broadcasts off the Empire State Building and talk about the kinds of things you want to talk about.
[43:12.490 --> 43:13.190]  But you know what?
[43:13.210 --> 43:13.950]  We do it anyway.
[43:13.950 --> 43:18.370]  And there's all kinds of things that people I know are doing despite the odds.
[43:18.610 --> 43:24.050]  All you need is some determination and the ability not to listen to the naysayers because they're all over the place.
[43:24.210 --> 43:25.710]  They're telling you what you can't do.
[43:25.830 --> 43:31.050]  And there are so many things that you can do if you simply try and be the first person that pulls it off.
[43:31.050 --> 43:39.870]  Now, you're calling us at 212-209-2950 as a vote of support for the kinds of programs that we do here on the radio station and for our show in particular.
[43:40.630 --> 43:44.170]  And it's what's made us go since 1988 till now.
[43:44.310 --> 43:46.390]  It's what's made the radio station go since 1960.
[43:47.650 --> 43:54.130]  And, you know, just like if they demolish a hotel, if you lose a radio station like this, it's not coming back.
[43:54.290 --> 43:56.170]  It's not the kind of thing you can just resurrect.
[43:57.010 --> 43:58.310]  It's a precious resource.
[43:58.530 --> 43:59.790]  It needs to be sustained.
[43:59.950 --> 44:00.850]  It needs to be supported.
[44:01.070 --> 44:05.210]  And since we don't have commercials, you've never heard a commercial on this radio station.
[44:05.490 --> 44:06.510]  I mean, you never will.
[44:06.930 --> 44:09.730]  Since we don't have that, we have to pay the rent.
[44:09.830 --> 44:11.010]  We have to pay the transmitter bill.
[44:11.810 --> 44:13.690]  These things are expensive in the middle of New York City.
[44:13.970 --> 44:16.250]  And we have the best sponsors of all, you.
[44:16.430 --> 44:24.250]  212-209-2950 No matter where you are in the world, you're a valuable resource, something that we depend on to keep going.
[44:24.410 --> 44:27.070]  212-209-2950 We have three calls on the line.
[44:27.210 --> 44:28.050]  Let's get two more.
[44:28.110 --> 44:33.130]  We can go to our Last Hope excerpt from the Last Hope conference.
[44:33.310 --> 44:35.010]  Again, $75 gets you five years.
[44:35.270 --> 44:35.990]  I'm sorry.
[44:36.850 --> 44:39.590]  It gets you five years of 2600 Magazine back issues.
[44:39.770 --> 44:40.970]  125 gets you 10 years.
[44:41.250 --> 44:42.990]  But $75 gets you...
[44:42.990 --> 44:48.810]  A different $75 pledge gets you an off-the-hook archive of 20 years plus audio, high fidelity.
[44:49.110 --> 44:53.650]  125 gets you the off-the-hook archive plus the Last Hope 20 DVD set.
[44:54.070 --> 45:03.370]  And if you want to get everything, $250 gets you 10-year collection of 2600, the off-the-hook archive, the Last Hope 20 DVD set, and the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[45:03.490 --> 45:04.490]  You know, there's a lot of stuff there.
[45:04.630 --> 45:05.050]  There really is.
[45:05.270 --> 45:07.950]  Not to mention the continued existence of the radio station.
[45:07.990 --> 45:08.290]  Yes.
[45:08.450 --> 45:08.730]  Yes.
[45:08.770 --> 45:10.390]  That's the most important thing of all.
[45:10.470 --> 45:14.470]  Even if we had nothing else to offer but that, I would hope people would be calling out.
[45:14.570 --> 45:16.130]  Now, we need to get two more calls.
[45:16.270 --> 45:16.970]  Two more calls.
[45:17.010 --> 45:18.070]  We have three on the line right now.
[45:18.130 --> 45:18.650]  Let's get two more.
[45:18.650 --> 45:20.290]  We can go right into the Last Hope excerpt.
[45:20.890 --> 45:21.970]  212-209-2950.
[45:22.150 --> 45:25.190]  Bernie, you know, last time, you were able to get those phones to light up.
[45:25.210 --> 45:27.770]  So I'm going to sit back and let you bring those calls in.
[45:27.870 --> 45:30.010]  I think they were just calling to pledge money so I'd shut up.
[45:30.070 --> 45:35.110]  But, you know, we opened the store, we opened the show tonight with some history about airships and that kind of thing.
[45:35.110 --> 45:45.970]  And the very building where our signal, WBAI, emanates from, atop the Empire State Building was designed as a docking station for airships.
[45:45.970 --> 45:54.610]  And our signal right now is being broadcast live from atop that same tower where airships were once supposed to be docking.
[45:54.670 --> 45:57.470]  It never actually was used for that, but that was the original plan.
[45:57.610 --> 45:58.630]  Wait, it was never used for that?
[45:58.730 --> 45:59.570]  It was never used for that?
[45:59.590 --> 46:02.190]  No, you'll see pictures of it, but they're sort of like mock-ups.
[46:02.330 --> 46:04.950]  There were no airship actually docked there.
[46:04.950 --> 46:15.450]  It was all set up, but the problem was the winds up there are so strong that they were worried about Hindenburg kind of things, although that was a Zeppelin and not a dirigible, which is a little bit safer.
[46:15.830 --> 46:28.370]  But anyhow, I just think it's fascinating how this circular history comes around, and now that same exact piece of architecture is emanating the signal that our listeners are hearing right now.
[46:29.110 --> 46:39.050]  WBAI reaches four states, the New York metropolitan area, New Jersey, the Delaware and parts, or parts not Delaware, parts of Pennsylvania and parts of Connecticut.
[46:39.570 --> 46:52.730]  And it's an amazing resource where a station is going to broadcast this kind of material, this kind of historical stuff about hackers and phone freaking and current history and technology.
[46:52.770 --> 46:55.290]  You're not going to get that at any other radio show.
[46:55.610 --> 46:59.510]  And WBAI has the courage to broadcast this kind of thing.
[46:59.510 --> 47:04.250]  So I encourage our listeners to call 212-209-2950.
[47:04.310 --> 47:05.750]  We have a lot of pledges.
[47:05.950 --> 47:10.530]  Just for $35, you can get a wonderful off-the-hook t-shirt designed by our own Rob T.
[47:10.630 --> 47:11.190]  Firefly.
[47:11.570 --> 47:13.550]  Really cool telephone design.
[47:13.970 --> 47:21.510]  $75, you get the off-the-hook archive every show we've ever broadcast since 1988.
[47:22.250 --> 47:24.090]  That $75 includes the t-shirt.
[47:24.210 --> 47:27.770]  For $125, you get that, plus 20 DVDs from the last HOPE conference.
[47:27.930 --> 47:31.750]  Really amazing presentations about stuff you always wanted to know about but you're afraid to ask.
[47:32.190 --> 47:33.270]  There's more than magazines.
[47:33.490 --> 47:37.890]  But bottom line, just call 212-209-2950 and support this station.
[47:38.030 --> 47:43.370]  It's a natural resource that would be a lesser world to have without.
[47:43.650 --> 47:44.490]  Yes, absolutely.
[47:44.770 --> 47:47.510]  And Bernie, you did bring in some calls so I want to thank you for that.
[47:48.010 --> 48:00.290]  I want to thank those listeners for calling in and showing their support because it's people like you that make this place possible, that have made it possible up until now as well and of course will keep us going well into the future.
[48:00.670 --> 48:18.870]  Now what I'd like to do is go back to 2008, the last HOPE conference and an excerpt from our own Jello Biafra, formerly of the Dead Kennedys, who makes a habit of coming to our conferences and just basically speaking his mind as most anybody can come to our conferences and speak their minds,
[48:18.870 --> 48:20.310]  kind of what we're all about.
[48:20.850 --> 48:28.650]  This happened in 2008 and as you're listening to this, please consider calling us 212-209-2950 for a pledge of $125.
[48:29.230 --> 48:33.330]  You'll get 20 DVDs from The Last Hope, including the talk you're about to hear.
[48:33.530 --> 48:40.050]  And you'll also get all the radio shows from 1988 to the end of 2009 in full high-fidelity sound.
[48:40.530 --> 48:43.230]  212-209-2950.
[48:43.490 --> 48:44.110]  Let's listen to Jello.
[48:44.110 --> 49:07.730]  And, many of you know that Obama completely reversed course with a calculated stabbing in the back of every single person in this room where after initially threatening to filibuster the new law legalizing all of the NSA's illegal wiretaps on people and letting the phone company off the hook for spying phone companies off the hook for spying on us as well,
[49:07.950 --> 49:15.170]  he turned around and voted yes and gave Bush and Cheney damn near everything they wanted and a lot more than they expected.
[49:16.110 --> 49:22.690]  Legalizing the exact same crimes that got Nixon thrown out of office during Watergate.
[49:22.930 --> 49:32.290]  And don't forget when it was revealed that Bush was doing this they took a poll I think it was CNN and over half the country wanted Bush impeached at that point.
[49:32.570 --> 49:39.090]  But oh no Jerry Blank Nancy Pelosi who knew impeachment is off the table support the troops.
[49:42.610 --> 50:06.670]  In 06 it was a little different Obama with all his glow and halo no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens more and no more ignoring the law when it is convenient no one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people not the president of the United States not the telecom companies that fell in line with warrantless surveillance programs but now the NSA
[50:06.670 --> 50:11.210]  can just go after everybody like a vacuum cleaner But then they have a new problem.
[50:11.370 --> 50:12.550]  They've got so much data.
[50:12.790 --> 50:15.270]  How do you find somebody bad in there?
[50:15.510 --> 50:18.590]  That's why they didn't find the 911 hijackers ahead of time.
[50:18.710 --> 50:20.430]  It wasn't some bad-ass conspiracy.
[50:20.670 --> 50:22.210]  It was Spinal Tap.
[50:22.490 --> 50:27.610]  And they'd over-spied on people so much, it was like looking for a needle in a football stadium.
[50:28.370 --> 50:29.970]  Now we get more of that.
[50:30.230 --> 50:37.870]  But at least some of the phone companies did their patriotic duty and cut off the FBI's wiretaps when they forgot to pay the phone bill.
[50:42.610 --> 50:53.650]  Now I wonder if this list of all the people who turned around and voted yes on this surveillance bill, that was a little test to see who gets into Obama's cabinet and who doesn't.
[50:53.830 --> 50:59.290]  After all, as Margaret Thatcher used to say, everything must be business as usual.
[51:00.150 --> 51:00.790]  Yeah.
[51:01.330 --> 51:03.150]  You're with us or against us.
[51:03.630 --> 51:06.490]  Obama voted to confirm Condoleezza Rice.
[51:06.810 --> 51:16.710]  He voted for putting up that anti-immigrant Berlin Wall border fence, and then admitted he just did it as a horse trade to get somebody else to vote for a bill he wanted through.
[51:17.030 --> 51:21.850]  That infamous quote, sometimes you have to trim your sails.
[51:22.530 --> 51:34.310]  Well, you look back at what he did, giving the NSA the right to spy on all of us and everything, I can't help but think of a grinning Obama slashing the Constitution with a box cutter as he trims the sails.
[51:34.310 --> 51:36.490]  More trim sales.
[51:36.770 --> 51:48.930]  He said he wants universal health care, but we can't have single payer, because disease industry bean counters, you know, the health insurance industry, they might wind up unemployed.
[51:49.370 --> 51:55.270]  Which is kind of like saying we have to let the mafia keep going, because otherwise we'll have unemployed gangsters.
[52:02.360 --> 52:06.580]  Health insurance scam artists quote, need a seat at the table.
[52:06.980 --> 52:09.640]  Isn't the health insurance industry the problem?
[52:10.700 --> 52:25.120]  And, 2005 Energy Policy Act, Obama voted tax breaks and subsidies for fossil fuels, while Exxon was taking in 30 to 40 billion dollars a year in the biggest profit any corporation has ever made.
[52:25.340 --> 52:28.040]  Even McCain voted against that one.
[52:29.080 --> 52:33.400]  And, Obama, as far as alternative fuels goes, great idea.
[52:33.560 --> 52:36.260]  He says we should run our cars on liquefied coal.
[52:37.140 --> 52:40.100]  I wonder who bought his mouth for that one.
[52:40.420 --> 52:47.680]  Now he sides with the Bush Supreme Court on guns, and said he's open to the idea of dropping nuclear weapons on Iran.
[52:47.960 --> 53:03.740]  He has praised Ronald Reagan for how he beat back, quote, the excesses of the 60s and 70s, and replacing that with, quote, a sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing, that some of us would call corruption.
[53:04.600 --> 53:20.920]  And if he's so law and order now over spying unsuspected terrorists, meaning all of us, and executing child rapists, why not apply that same zeal to promising to investigate and prosecute crimes committed by the Bush administration?
[53:27.880 --> 53:33.160]  Reagan and Bush's father, these same people doing the same stuff, was there for all to see.
[53:33.500 --> 53:37.060]  Bill Clinton gets in and says, oh, shred all the files you want.
[53:37.180 --> 53:39.520]  We have to let bygones be bygones.
[53:39.580 --> 53:44.700]  And the problem is, if you don't put them in jail, these people have a habit of coming back.
[53:45.080 --> 53:51.880]  I mean, at least in Watergate, they would send people to jail, so he didn't wind up having CIA director G.
[53:52.100 --> 53:58.360]  Gordon Liddy, or Secretary of State Nixon, or something like that.
[53:58.620 --> 54:07.200]  I mean, if he's not going to prosecute, we should at least do what South Africa and others have done after overthrowing dictatorships, and have a truth commission.
[54:08.460 --> 54:11.820]  In other words, what we get instead, business as usual.
[54:12.980 --> 54:32.520]  My biggest worry of all about the Barack star is that he's drawing so many inspired people into the process, that if he does turn out to be business as usual, he's going to break the hearts of a whole generation who don't bother to participate in any way ever again,
[54:32.880 --> 54:35.900]  except writing a little blog read by five people.
[54:36.020 --> 54:36.480]  I don't know.
[54:40.810 --> 54:47.730]  I was crossing my fingers for a while, but legalizing the wiretap showed me, yep, business as usual.
[54:47.990 --> 54:57.130]  I remember all too well somebody else who had the audacity to misuse people's hope as a pied piper for the corporate agenda, and his name is Bill Clinton.
[54:57.630 --> 54:59.130]  That's what worries me.
[54:59.370 --> 55:04.190]  So laugh at Ralph Nader or not, but I think he had something interesting to say a couple months ago.
[55:04.450 --> 55:09.510]  You're throwing away your vote if you allow and condone this behavior.
[55:10.710 --> 55:11.930]  But don't worry.
[55:11.930 --> 55:21.570]  They'll fix it anyway because neither Obama or Hillary have said a peep about vote fraud through touch screen digital voting machines.
[55:24.880 --> 55:28.900]  How many of you saw the panel in here about the ES&S machines?
[55:29.120 --> 55:31.100]  And that was just one of the four manufacturers.
[55:31.360 --> 55:37.620]  How easy it is not to just use different ink to get people's paper ballots to switch, but you can even take out the little...
[55:37.620 --> 55:38.640]  I think it's a card thing.
[55:38.640 --> 55:40.740]  They give you a plastic thing and put your own...
[55:40.740 --> 55:44.080]  I think they were showing a Palm Pilot or something, weren't they?
[55:44.260 --> 55:51.940]  And you can not only change votes in that little voting machine, you can send a virus through the whole system that the county's never going to figure out was there.
[55:52.740 --> 55:55.940]  One person can make a difference.
[56:00.640 --> 56:03.020]  Voting should not be privatized.
[56:03.380 --> 56:14.600]  And Greg Palast, who's done a lot of research on this and wrote The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, told me two days ago that he doesn't even think the fraud within the machinery is the worst problem this time around.
[56:14.820 --> 56:25.520]  It's that these same companies, ES&S and Sequoia and Premier, formerly Diebold, now the states are privatizing out to them going over voter registration applications.
[56:26.420 --> 56:37.860]  They decide who gets to vote and get to decide who has a felony conviction on their record that they never knew existed because of, you know, trying to vote while black or something like that.
[56:37.860 --> 56:47.020]  So, even if 80% of the people fall for the Barack star, you may well see the Eraserhead baby as president instead.
[56:47.780 --> 56:49.240]  More good news!
[56:49.560 --> 56:51.100]  How many of you saw this?
[56:51.200 --> 57:05.860]  Okay, it goes on and on and on, but it's Jell-O at the Last Hope Conference, which you'll get the video of along with 19 other videos from the Last Hope Conference, some political, some technical, some social, all fascinating.
[57:05.860 --> 57:18.440]  Pledge of 125, you'll get 20 DVDs set plus, you'll get the Off The Hook archive from 1988 to the end of 2009, 20 plus DVDs of audio there, all in high fidelity sound.
[57:18.560 --> 57:22.060]  212-209-2950, and of course you'll also get the Off The Hook t-shirt.
[57:22.220 --> 57:24.860]  But you have to call in the next five minutes or it's not going to be available.
[57:25.060 --> 57:34.800]  We have one call on the line, and I'd sure like to see a last minute flurry because if the number up there is the total, we're not doing very well, so we have to bring that up.
[57:34.800 --> 57:36.700]  So, Bernie, do your magic, please.
[57:37.660 --> 57:43.780]  Well, I was just thinking what a tremendous value of intellectual property pledging is.
[57:43.960 --> 57:59.540]  Not just the intellectual property WBA provides, but every Off The Hook show up until the beginning of this year, you know, since 1988, it was like 1,000 or 1,500 hours of really interesting, high fidelity material.
[58:00.240 --> 58:02.680]  20 DVDs from The Last Hope, like you just heard.
[58:04.720 --> 58:07.100]  Jell-O really shakes you up when you listen to him, doesn't he?
[58:07.340 --> 58:08.000]  He sure does.
[58:08.020 --> 58:08.460]  He sure does.
[58:08.520 --> 58:10.820]  He's definitely a monumental speaker.
[58:10.820 --> 58:16.940]  We have so many monumental speakers at the conference, and I just hope people get the opportunity to see that themselves.
[58:17.080 --> 58:21.540]  If they didn't make it to the conference, this is the best way, certainly the most cost-effective way.
[58:21.580 --> 58:25.280]  If you were to buy these DVDs, you'd spend a lot more than what we're offering them for tonight.
[58:25.840 --> 58:27.420]  So we have to get out of here.
[58:27.500 --> 58:30.240]  The personal computer people are here, and they've got a terrific show planned.
[58:30.420 --> 58:38.520]  But one more time, 212-209-2950 is the number to call to get all the DVDs for either $75 or $125.
[58:39.080 --> 58:41.240]  Amazing deals for all of them.
[58:41.960 --> 58:43.900]  And please give a call.
[58:44.060 --> 58:45.520]  212-209-2950.
[58:45.760 --> 58:48.280]  Also, one last appeal to SaveHotelPen.
[58:49.100 --> 58:51.460]  Go on to twitter.com slash savehotelpen.
[58:51.460 --> 58:54.480]  I see we have 165 followers at the moment.
[58:54.480 --> 58:58.620]  Let's bring that up to well over 200 in the next few hours, hopefully.
[58:59.360 --> 59:04.100]  And those of you in Seattle that want Club Monte delivered to you, we're almost completely sold out.
[59:04.260 --> 59:05.960]  So email us.
[59:07.000 --> 59:07.460]  Let's see.
[59:07.520 --> 59:09.540]  What's the email address for that?
[59:09.980 --> 59:10.780]  What was it again, Mike?
[59:10.780 --> 59:11.340]  I don't know.
[59:11.420 --> 59:14.520]  But if you go on clubmonte.us, you'll find out.
[59:14.520 --> 59:15.140]  Clubmonte.us.
[59:15.280 --> 59:17.140]  C-L-U-B-M-A-T-E dot U-S.
[59:18.160 --> 59:19.820]  And we'll set you up for that.
[59:19.960 --> 59:20.160]  Okay.
[59:20.260 --> 59:21.160]  We'll see you next week.
[59:21.800 --> 59:22.500]  Have a good night.
[59:27.960 --> 59:34.940]  If I took your number and your name, would you play me like my computer games?
[59:35.380 --> 59:41.640]  If I took your number and your name, then nothing is the foolish game.
[59:41.640 --> 59:42.740]  Baby, let's get real.
[59:42.840 --> 59:49.660]  If I took your number and your name, would you play me like my computer games?
[59:50.120 --> 59:56.240]  If I took your number and your name, then nothing is the foolish game.
[59:56.460 --> 59:57.500]  Baby, let's get real.
[59:57.500 --> 59:58.620]  Can I get real?
[59:58.740 --> 01:00:00.720]  Yeah, you make me feel like I'm in my true reality.
[01:00:00.940 --> 01:00:02.120]  Your appeal is graphical.
[01:00:02.380 --> 01:00:03.180]  I get fanatical.
[01:00:03.340 --> 01:00:03.660]  This is free.
[01:00:03.740 --> 01:00:04.340]  I'm playing games.
[01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:04.880]  You're tactical.
[01:00:05.160 --> 01:00:05.840]  I get erratic.
[01:00:06.020 --> 01:00:06.940]  That's a fire drink.
[01:00:07.140 --> 01:00:08.120]  The game could be my Zelda.
[01:00:08.140 --> 01:00:08.780]  We could link.
[01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:10.760]  But what I don't know is that you're thinking on it?
[01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:12.580]  We could roll together like Tails and Sonic.
[01:00:12.740 --> 01:00:13.400]  Like Tetris.
[01:00:13.500 --> 01:00:14.340]  Let's get this.
[01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:15.260]  All lined up.
[01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:16.160]  Let's set this.
[01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:17.200]  Are you checking options?
[01:00:17.260 --> 01:00:18.080]  We could change settings.
[01:00:18.080 --> 01:00:20.520]  And so we are getting the ultimate scenery.
[01:00:20.660 --> 01:00:21.760]  We're getting on.
[01:00:21.940 --> 01:00:23.700]  We could move past level one.
[01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:25.520]  Nowhere's moving fast like Tron.
[01:00:25.640 --> 01:00:27.060]  So, baby, let's get real.
[01:00:27.160 --> 01:00:34.040]  If I took your number and your name, would you play me like my computer games?
[01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:40.660]  If I took your number and your name, then lovin' is the foolish game.
[01:00:40.740 --> 01:00:41.720]  Baby, let's get real.
[01:00:41.720 --> 01:00:47.180]  If I took your number and your name, little short bit of music here.