[00:00.000 --> 00:18.340]  The signatories call on governments to take primary responsibility for the problem by enacting and enforcing laws, ensuring access to educational and social protections, and establishing a decent and protective labor market for adults.
[00:18.840 --> 00:21.860]  Jaswinder Sehgal, FSRN, Jaipur, India.
[00:22.240 --> 00:24.120]  And that wraps up today's program.
[00:24.340 --> 00:25.700]  This is Free Speech Radio News.
[00:25.840 --> 00:26.540]  Thanks for listening.
[00:26.780 --> 00:28.460]  In Oaxaca, Mexico, I'm Shannon Young.
[00:40.000 --> 00:42.820]  And you are listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[00:43.000 --> 00:47.860]  The time is 7.01, and that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:51.260 --> 00:58.940]  Okay, and we're not going to play the music because we're in the period of time where we have to write down all the music that we play on this radio station because of some legal thing.
[00:59.160 --> 01:06.950]  We have a program here called The Confessor, and any music we play, we have to confess and send it to record companies and pay taxes and things like that.
[01:06.950 --> 01:10.000]  But the off-hook tone is not... I don't think it's registered by anybody.
[01:10.200 --> 01:14.640]  We're very afraid of the law here now at Pacifica, so we can't do certain things.
[01:15.090 --> 01:22.010]  I just was told today that we're not having podcasts anymore on this radio station because we're afraid of some legal thing going on.
[01:22.180 --> 01:26.430]  One that they seem to have invented, a new law that only applies to Pacifica.
[01:26.430 --> 01:32.800]  This country is just driving me crazy with all these fears and worries about what might happen if we do certain things.
[01:32.930 --> 01:35.180]  There's a crowd of people outside, and it's someone's birthday.
[01:35.300 --> 01:36.320]  Someone started singing Happy Birthday.
[01:36.440 --> 01:40.820]  The lawyer who's visiting us jumped out and tackled them because we didn't have permission to sing that song.
[01:41.320 --> 01:42.840]  You sang it in a radio station yet.
[01:42.840 --> 01:46.570]  What if, like, one tiny bit of that sound got into a microphone?
[01:46.570 --> 01:47.260]  Can you imagine?
[01:47.600 --> 01:49.220]  All right, now that you say it that way, I am concerned.
[01:49.360 --> 01:54.120]  But, okay, one of the three things I just mentioned didn't really happen, but you can figure out which one it is.
[01:54.120 --> 01:57.180]  So here we are with a music list off the hook this week.
[01:57.260 --> 02:03.380]  And this doesn't happen every week, but when we have to worry about that stupid thing over there, they actually call it the confessor.
[02:05.010 --> 02:08.400]  You know, I have to draw some lines, and that's a line that I'm not crossing.
[02:09.560 --> 02:13.680]  You know, I think the music business should be paying us.
[02:14.220 --> 02:22.760]  Music industry, the record companies, they should all be paying radio stations for airing their music for free and getting it out there so people can hear something.
[02:22.820 --> 02:23.940]  That's my personal opinion.
[02:24.120 --> 02:25.000]  On the matter.
[02:25.440 --> 02:26.640]  And we already do pay them.
[02:26.720 --> 02:28.700]  We already do pay them through ASCAP fees and things like that.
[02:28.840 --> 02:32.520]  Anyway, here we are, off the hook, with just our voices.
[02:33.020 --> 02:35.660]  Joined tonight, I'm Emanuel, joined tonight by Mike.
[02:35.860 --> 02:36.100]  Hi.
[02:36.320 --> 02:36.680]  Jim.
[02:37.080 --> 02:37.300]  Hello.
[02:37.500 --> 02:37.780]  Rob T.
[02:38.020 --> 02:38.380]  Firefly.
[02:38.540 --> 02:38.800]  Good evening.
[02:38.920 --> 02:39.280]  Dot Red.
[02:39.620 --> 02:39.940]  Hello.
[02:40.460 --> 02:41.220]  And Red Hack.
[02:41.420 --> 02:41.700]  Hello.
[02:41.900 --> 02:43.260]  Just got here at the last possible minute.
[02:43.420 --> 02:44.320]  Well, I made it, didn't I?
[02:44.340 --> 02:44.760]  You did.
[02:54.540 --> 02:55.140]  Hi, Eric.
[02:55.400 --> 02:55.840]  How are you doing?
[02:55.960 --> 02:56.760]  It's Emanuel, by the way.
[02:57.100 --> 02:57.400]  Stephen?
[02:58.080 --> 02:59.440]  Let me run you and see if that's true.
[02:59.440 --> 02:59.920]  Yeah, go ahead.
[03:00.000 --> 03:00.840]  You have a little device there.
[03:00.840 --> 03:01.420]  What's that device?
[03:02.200 --> 03:03.860]  And you've got to talk into the microphone.
[03:04.080 --> 03:10.960]  Well, we'll talk about it later, but we have a program that we're going to be handing out for free at the HOPE conference called Identity Check.
[03:11.140 --> 03:11.640]  Identity Check.
[03:11.640 --> 03:17.760]  Which allows you to confirm any address, any name, any telephone number, any date of birth.
[03:18.000 --> 03:19.720]  We're going to be giving it out for free.
[03:20.280 --> 03:26.720]  And by the way, when I say any telephone number, it doesn't matter if it's non-published, cell phone, whatever.
[03:26.980 --> 03:28.620]  So you have all the goods on all of us.
[03:28.620 --> 03:29.320]  All the goods.
[03:29.760 --> 03:34.080]  This is a sort of digital power to the people move on our part.
[03:34.080 --> 03:38.700]  But now you're giving a three-hour talk again at the next talk.
[03:38.820 --> 03:39.920]  You did that last time as well.
[03:40.060 --> 03:41.900]  And I believe, well, you were going to do it at the time before that.
[03:41.900 --> 03:46.580]  And we tried to do it the time before, but we had to pause for government interruption.
[03:46.920 --> 03:52.040]  Yeah, but you did give the talk later on, New Jersey, I think in October or November or something.
[03:52.160 --> 03:52.960]  Standing room only, correct.
[03:52.960 --> 03:58.380]  It was a lot of fun and just testament to the HOPE spirit that we always get it done one way or another.
[03:59.000 --> 04:04.540]  But this year, it's another talk, and hopefully there won't be any interference from authorities.
[04:04.760 --> 04:06.180]  We'll talk more about that, perhaps.
[04:06.600 --> 04:10.780]  Well, we're going to be talking about things that are considerably more sensitive than the last time.
[04:10.940 --> 04:17.100]  We're going to put up a lot of really interesting databases, a lot of new technology.
[04:17.100 --> 04:22.940]  We always keep your attendees about two to three years ahead of the curve.
[04:23.800 --> 04:27.680]  We have some remarkable stuff we're going to be talking about this time.
[04:27.940 --> 04:38.800]  And for the Q&A session, there are 10 fairly legendary investigators and law enforcement officers that are going to be joining me on the podium.
[04:39.020 --> 04:40.440]  The podium's not that big.
[04:40.860 --> 04:41.380]  Well...
[04:41.380 --> 04:41.740]  10?
[04:41.880 --> 04:44.700]  Some of them may be standing behind the others.
[04:44.840 --> 04:46.380]  I hope they don't all want microphones because...
[04:46.380 --> 04:53.340]  Most of them, except for one small female, are fairly rhinoceros-sized individuals.
[04:53.640 --> 04:56.860]  Yeah, this could be a logistical issue, but we'll settle that.
[04:56.960 --> 04:57.360]  We've got a good crew.
[04:57.360 --> 04:59.480]  Maybe we can have relays of investigators.
[04:59.780 --> 04:59.880]  Uh-huh.
[05:00.260 --> 05:01.900]  Well, no, okay, so legendary investigators.
[05:02.000 --> 05:03.460]  That sounds fascinating, so we'll be able to ask them.
[05:03.500 --> 05:07.180]  Bob Kolakowski, Reggie Montgomery, Jerry Keenan.
[05:07.840 --> 05:16.160]  I mean, people who, if you mention these names in the investigative or law enforcement community, people go, oh, yeah, I've been hearing of him for 30 years.
[05:16.160 --> 05:18.300]  It's like the Mannix, but in real life.
[05:18.720 --> 05:22.220]  These are, I mean, this is the A-team of investigators.
[05:22.580 --> 05:22.680]  Okay.
[05:23.440 --> 05:24.140]  The group that are going to be...
[05:24.140 --> 05:25.220]  That's a lot more topical.
[05:25.320 --> 05:26.800]  They have a movie out now, and...
[05:26.800 --> 05:29.060]  Well, that was accidentally topical.
[05:31.580 --> 05:38.780]  The combined investigative and law enforcement knowledge up there, I think, will be all-encompassing.
[05:39.400 --> 05:39.920]  Okay.
[05:40.080 --> 05:41.800]  Well, that sounds pretty fascinating.
[05:42.500 --> 05:46.300]  Now, for those of you just tuning in, have never heard of Hope before.
[05:46.400 --> 05:47.600]  Hope is Hackers on Planet Earth.
[05:47.740 --> 05:50.060]  It takes place in just about two weeks, two weeks from now.
[05:50.500 --> 05:52.180]  In fact, I got to say something.
[05:52.710 --> 05:58.660]  We gave some information out last week that we weren't sure about, and as it turns out, it was not completely correct.
[05:59.360 --> 06:06.960]  There is, in fact, a hearing on the fate of the Hotel Pennsylvania, which is where we have these conferences and where we'd like to continue having these conferences.
[06:07.460 --> 06:15.580]  And as it happens, we thought maybe it would be happening after the conference, but in fact, it's happening two weeks from today, July the 14th.
[06:15.720 --> 06:17.800]  There will be a public hearing.
[06:18.000 --> 06:20.560]  We don't have the specific information as to where exactly.
[06:20.560 --> 06:21.820]  I know it starts at 10 in the morning.
[06:21.980 --> 06:23.000]  It probably runs all day long.
[06:23.500 --> 06:27.360]  So if you're coming in for Hope, hey, that's a great opportunity to come in for that as well.
[06:27.360 --> 06:41.820]  So it's a couple of days before the conference, but we'd sure love to hear from people there in front of the city council telling them why or why not to preserve the Hotel Pennsylvania and keep it from being replaced with a huge office building.
[06:42.620 --> 06:44.300]  So again, we'll have more information on that.
[06:44.400 --> 06:46.500]  But Hope is Hackers on Planet Earth.
[06:46.640 --> 06:49.820]  It's a conference that we have at the Hotel Pennsylvania every couple of years.
[06:49.820 --> 06:53.160]  And we just released the full schedule.
[06:53.460 --> 06:54.380]  I did that this Monday.
[06:54.640 --> 06:58.280]  And we have just about 100 talks, 100 scheduled talks.
[06:58.380 --> 07:07.100]  We have even more talks that are unscheduled that will be scheduled at the conference and all sorts of other special features and projects and things like that.
[07:07.160 --> 07:16.600]  I don't have a printed copy of the program on me right now, but if you go to hope.net and simply look around, you'll see every single one of them.
[07:17.480 --> 07:19.180]  Bernie, anything stand out for you?
[07:19.900 --> 07:29.440]  I think we really have done ourselves this time, or at least our attendees and our speakers outdid themselves this time.
[07:29.460 --> 07:35.860]  I think we've gotten more excellent talk submissions this year than in any previous Hope.
[07:35.960 --> 07:36.320]  Is that right?
[07:36.440 --> 07:38.460]  Well, we've definitely had more submissions.
[07:38.940 --> 07:44.300]  And what that means is we've had more good submissions, too, but definitely more overall.
[07:44.300 --> 07:48.420]  We've had more pre-registrations, more speaker submissions.
[07:48.820 --> 07:53.940]  I just think a lot more interest in what's going to be happening in two weeks.
[07:54.380 --> 07:55.560]  And yeah, that reflects in the program.
[07:55.560 --> 08:01.900]  We have definitely a very diverse and dynamic range of topics being covered.
[08:02.120 --> 08:08.000]  And if you're not one of the people that is on the schedule, it doesn't mean that we don't want to hear from you.
[08:08.060 --> 08:10.280]  It doesn't mean that you can't still give a talk.
[08:10.280 --> 08:12.980]  Like I said, the unscheduled track is there.
[08:13.960 --> 08:17.180]  And there are all kinds of opportunities to spread information around.
[08:17.260 --> 08:18.640]  That's what the Hope conferences are all about.
[08:19.000 --> 08:21.600]  So yeah, it's going to be something.
[08:21.780 --> 08:23.160]  It's pretty unprecedented.
[08:23.320 --> 08:25.520]  This is the eighth time we've done this.
[08:26.900 --> 08:28.720]  And yeah, it keeps getting better, I think.
[08:29.520 --> 08:29.660]  Yep.
[08:30.040 --> 08:30.840]  You guys have any...
[08:30.840 --> 08:32.140]  Mike, anything that stands out for you?
[08:32.240 --> 08:32.710]  I'm just...
[08:32.710 --> 08:33.710]  Are you looking at it on your phone?
[08:33.710 --> 08:34.450]  No, I'm looking at it.
[08:34.550 --> 08:37.310]  We're going to release a smartphone application.
[08:37.340 --> 08:40.100]  And I have the pre-release copy of it.
[08:40.160 --> 08:40.360]  We are?
[08:40.430 --> 08:41.190]  Do we have the right to do that?
[08:41.340 --> 08:41.570]  Yeah.
[08:41.840 --> 08:43.720]  I don't want to get sued by anybody else.
[08:43.900 --> 08:46.460]  I mean, the lawyers inside might...
[08:46.460 --> 08:47.300]  On what platform?
[08:47.580 --> 08:51.280]  This is on Android, but I think they're working on an iPhone one as well.
[08:52.310 --> 08:54.780]  So I guess we'll say more about it when it's actually done.
[08:55.000 --> 08:57.920]  But there's just all kinds of good talks.
[08:57.980 --> 08:59.020]  It's so hard to pick some.
[08:59.020 --> 09:10.040]  Um, there's a talk about human rights from a guy who's actually, uh, been, been part of the, uh, the effort to, to get people out of North Korea who want to leave.
[09:10.260 --> 09:11.780]  This is the guy who was detained by the Chinese.
[09:12.160 --> 09:12.380]  Yeah.
[09:12.540 --> 09:12.710]  Yeah.
[09:12.760 --> 09:14.660]  That's the latest thing to get detained by the Chinese.
[09:15.000 --> 09:22.330]  And then, and then just as an example, um, you know, immediately after it is a talk about the telephone pioneers of America.
[09:22.640 --> 09:22.980]  Oh yeah.
[09:23.120 --> 09:23.710]  That's going to be great.
[09:24.040 --> 09:28.920]  Um, there's a talk at the same time as the telephone pioneers talk.
[09:29.020 --> 09:38.060]  There's a talk about, uh, the, by, I forget the name of the organization who've done a thousand, uh, freedom of information requests, government addict.org.
[09:38.220 --> 09:42.300]  It's funny, uh, telephone pioneers, by the way, that's, that's hosted by Kyle, who is in the studio and will be here next week.
[09:42.540 --> 09:44.000]  But that follows Steve's talk.
[09:44.220 --> 09:46.580]  Steve's talk is, is in, uh, the, the Tesla room.
[09:46.710 --> 09:50.020]  We, we've named all the rooms after, after famous, uh, people, Tesla.
[09:50.260 --> 09:51.280]  In touch with that guy.
[09:51.480 --> 09:54.980]  And, and, uh, if he's listening, his name's, uh, he's from Brooklyn, right?
[09:55.140 --> 09:56.440]  He's an investigator from Brooklyn.
[09:56.600 --> 09:57.400]  His name's Ravitsky.
[09:57.660 --> 09:57.940]  Uh-huh.
[09:57.940 --> 09:58.900]  Does that sound right?
[09:59.520 --> 10:01.160]  Uh, oh, the, uh, the government addict.
[10:01.330 --> 10:01.740]  The FOIA guy.
[10:01.940 --> 10:02.180]  Uh-huh.
[10:02.360 --> 10:04.620]  Well, if he's listening, I'd appreciate a telephone call.
[10:05.080 --> 10:05.360]  Okay.
[10:05.520 --> 10:05.830]  All right.
[10:05.880 --> 10:07.920]  Well, any other, uh, messages you want to get out there?
[10:08.000 --> 10:09.120]  We have a radio station to do that.
[10:09.520 --> 10:13.210]  But, but, but, but the, um, Steve's talk is taking place in the Tesla room.
[10:13.500 --> 10:16.740]  The, the telephone pioneers of America is taking place in the bell room, which is right opposite that.
[10:16.880 --> 10:18.480]  And then social engineering follows that.
[10:18.620 --> 10:22.300]  So, Saturday night is, is just, uh, there's many ways you can spend it.
[10:22.300 --> 10:28.120]  And, of course, we also have the Lovelace room, which, um, uh, which has all kinds of other talks going on.
[10:28.280 --> 10:32.940]  And, uh, I believe we have the, uh, the Morse room, which is where the, um, the unscheduled track is going to be.
[10:33.100 --> 10:33.840]  Is that right, Bernie?
[10:34.360 --> 10:36.880]  As in Samuel Morse, the inventor of Morse code.
[10:37.740 --> 10:38.080]  So, yes.
[10:38.280 --> 10:41.660]  Uh, famous, famous people who, uh, we pay homage to.
[10:41.940 --> 10:48.240]  And the fourth track, uh, anything you want to say, just sign up at the beginning of the day on the, uh, on the big chart on the wall.
[10:48.580 --> 10:50.960]  And you'll have your, uh, one hour of fame.
[10:51.740 --> 10:52.620]  Yeah, absolutely.
[10:53.100 --> 10:58.100]  And maybe more if people start talking about what you said and, uh, and remembering it for the rest of their lives.
[10:58.240 --> 10:58.440]  Rob?
[10:58.640 --> 11:03.960]  The, uh, the unscheduled track is also a great place for, um, people who maybe aren't sure about, uh, about their topic.
[11:04.100 --> 11:15.280]  If they haven't, uh, spoken in front of a group before or, you know, they didn't want to go for a full presentation, you can, uh, try it out in the unscheduled track and see, and, uh, see how it goes, see how your, uh, your responses are and what you need to,
[11:15.440 --> 11:17.820]  what you would maybe need to work on or, uh...
[11:17.820 --> 11:27.420]  There are many talks that started out in the unscheduled track and eventually moved up and, uh, made it to the scheduled track and huge throngs of people.
[11:27.900 --> 11:29.560]  Uh, and, uh, that's...
[11:29.560 --> 11:35.280]  I've also seen the unscheduled track room, uh, fill up to capacity and people waiting out in the halls for certain talks, so it does happen.
[11:35.400 --> 11:39.800]  Yeah, sometimes, sometimes we misjudge what's going to be very popular and what's, what's not going to be very popular.
[11:39.820 --> 11:43.320]  Or sometimes people just on the fly think of something brilliant to talk about at the last minute and they do so.
[11:43.320 --> 11:47.460]  Or sometimes Richard Stallman shows up without telling anybody and decides he's going to give a talk in the unscheduled room.
[11:48.820 --> 11:49.860]  And there you go.
[11:49.980 --> 11:51.720]  You have to, uh, you have to squeeze everybody in.
[11:52.240 --> 11:52.600]  Uh, hoping...
[11:52.600 --> 11:53.980]  And Emmanuel, there's lightning rounds, too.
[11:54.160 --> 11:54.740]  Lightning rounds.
[11:54.840 --> 11:55.640]  Why don't you tell us what that's all about?
[11:56.140 --> 11:59.300]  Yeah, lightning rounds are, uh, uh, an honored tradition in the hacker community.
[11:59.300 --> 12:10.500]  where people, with extensive planning or not, can step up and speak rapidly for five minutes to...
[12:10.500 --> 12:12.300]  Well, wait, you're not supposed to speak fast, are you?
[12:12.300 --> 12:13.380]  I don't think that's how it works.
[12:13.600 --> 12:13.980]  Well, no.
[12:14.080 --> 12:17.380]  You don't have to speak quickly, although you can squeeze in more content if you do.
[12:17.920 --> 12:19.420]  Yeah, but people don't know what you're talking about.
[12:19.500 --> 12:20.600]  You'd be like that FedEx commercial.
[12:20.980 --> 12:23.000]  I'm not saying speaking unintelligibly.
[12:23.000 --> 12:26.460]  I'm just saying, you know, not long, drawn-out pauses and things.
[12:26.460 --> 12:29.760]  You've got five minutes, but you can say a lot in five minutes.
[12:29.900 --> 12:34.640]  You can present things on the big video screen behind the podium.
[12:35.120 --> 12:36.920]  For five minutes, you can talk about...
[12:36.920 --> 12:39.060]  I've seen entire careers be destroyed in five minutes.
[12:39.440 --> 12:41.320]  It's very easy to do that.
[12:42.000 --> 12:43.960]  We have a sign-up.
[12:44.660 --> 12:56.480]  Lexicon is running the lightning round, so when you get to Hope, there'll be a box where you can put your submission form in there for your lightning talk, and the best ones will be chosen, and you'll be notified when to show up.
[12:56.480 --> 12:59.500]  I think we're doing them either right before or after the keynotes.
[12:59.560 --> 12:59.880]  Is that right?
[12:59.980 --> 13:01.600]  The plan right now is to do them after the keynotes.
[13:01.660 --> 13:04.640]  The keynotes are starting at 1 o'clock each day, Friday and Saturday.
[13:05.080 --> 13:08.820]  Friday is Dan Kaminsky, and Saturday is Julian Assange.
[13:08.960 --> 13:11.220]  In one form or another, we're still working that out.
[13:11.320 --> 13:12.280]  We're still working out the kinks.
[13:13.940 --> 13:22.660]  He's very much wanted in this country, and not just by us, but by all kinds of authority figures that really want to ask him all sorts of pointed questions.
[13:23.420 --> 13:34.800]  So assuming that he's not able to actually make it in person and make it past all the authority figures, we're trying to work out something with Skype or some kind of projection, a holographic image.
[13:35.280 --> 13:41.560]  We've got a lot of really technical people devoting days and nights to this, so we'll figure something out.
[13:42.280 --> 13:42.560]  Yeah.
[13:42.760 --> 13:43.540]  Any thoughts?
[13:43.700 --> 13:43.820]  Go ahead.
[13:43.960 --> 13:46.560]  Yeah, you know, talking about some of these amazing talks we're having.
[13:46.780 --> 13:51.040]  And you know that whenever this happens, a lot of these rooms pack out and there's not enough space.
[13:51.180 --> 13:55.340]  But thankfully, the people at Hope, the amazing people, actually take care of that, too.
[13:55.700 --> 14:00.820]  There will be overflow areas down in the Mezzanay area in the new Video Temple.
[14:01.140 --> 14:05.620]  And also some of the keynotes will be getting streamed over Radio Statler.
[14:05.680 --> 14:06.440]  Video Temple.
[14:06.820 --> 14:07.160]  Yes.
[14:07.280 --> 14:11.000]  It's a place of worship for all things visual and musical.
[14:11.000 --> 14:11.820]  All right.
[14:11.860 --> 14:13.480]  Well, I think we're starting to get out of control here.
[14:13.760 --> 14:14.680]  But all right.
[14:14.760 --> 14:15.960]  That sounds good.
[14:16.530 --> 14:19.700]  I understand the Hackerspace Village is bigger than ever.
[14:20.220 --> 14:21.860]  Yeah, right next to the temple, actually.
[14:22.060 --> 14:22.300]  Wow.
[14:22.580 --> 14:26.700]  Well, I've been talking to Nick Farr about this, and it just sounds like...
[14:26.700 --> 14:32.580]  I don't want to say it's spiraled up out of control, but it's spiraled in such a way that it's huge.
[14:32.820 --> 14:34.220]  And it's not out of control.
[14:34.260 --> 14:36.780]  It's just massively big.
[14:36.780 --> 14:40.600]  I was saying to somebody, you know, if this was something that we didn't like, it would be worthy of being scared of.
[14:40.660 --> 14:46.620]  But it's something that we do like, so it's a great thing that so many hackerspaces have formed in the last two years.
[14:47.860 --> 14:49.180]  And they're giving a talk.
[14:49.280 --> 14:52.020]  Mike, can you look on your phone and see when the hackerspace talk is?
[14:52.120 --> 14:54.340]  I think I know when it is, but I don't want to give out bad information.
[14:56.020 --> 15:01.580]  And Nick and a bunch of people from hackerspaces.org, which, according to him, was launched at the last help.
[15:01.640 --> 15:02.380]  I didn't realize that.
[15:03.020 --> 15:08.840]  But that website, which has all the hackerspaces in the world listed, they'll be giving a presentation in one of the main rooms.
[15:08.900 --> 15:11.020]  It's going to be on Friday at 9.
[15:11.340 --> 15:12.560]  Friday at 9 in what room?
[15:12.720 --> 15:13.320]  In Tesla.
[15:13.480 --> 15:13.760]  Tesla.
[15:13.860 --> 15:16.120]  Tesla is the main room.
[15:17.000 --> 15:17.820]  Tesla is the main room.
[15:17.820 --> 15:24.060]  And, yeah, you know, Nikolai Tesla came from Serbia, where I just was.
[15:24.180 --> 15:24.680]  Go ahead, Steve.
[15:24.700 --> 15:25.740]  I've seen...
[15:25.740 --> 15:36.700]  I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I've seen that hope has finally broken out into the mainstream in terms of who seems to be attending this year.
[15:36.860 --> 15:41.040]  I know that Society of Professional Investigators is bringing a large contingent.
[15:41.980 --> 15:45.480]  National Association of Investigative Specialists is bringing a contingent.
[15:45.500 --> 15:46.900]  But aren't they just there to investigate us?
[15:47.820 --> 15:55.820]  Well, what I'm afraid of is at some point during my talk, the left side of the audience will get up and arrest the right side of the audience.
[15:56.200 --> 15:58.080]  But hopefully not.
[15:58.780 --> 16:08.020]  Actually, I think you're going to see a considerably more varied audience this year.
[16:08.160 --> 16:12.880]  Are you surprised by the amount of interest that the hacker community has and the things you have to say?
[16:14.120 --> 16:15.900]  You know, I'm gratified.
[16:16.780 --> 16:22.500]  First of all, there's a lot in common between the hacker community and the investigative community.
[16:22.500 --> 16:35.060]  You're talking about people who want to know how things work, who's behind things, who are probably the most curious communities that are out there.
[16:36.220 --> 16:47.000]  On the technical issues, there's a lot of overlap, a lot of the TSCM, the technical surveillance countermeasures, the bugging, the debugging, the lockpicking, security issues.
[16:47.000 --> 16:57.200]  You know, I don't know any good investigative or law enforcement agency that doesn't have a significant number of hacker resources.
[16:57.800 --> 17:00.000]  You can't separate the two communities.
[17:00.480 --> 17:12.270]  The situation that existed 20 years ago where you had law enforcement and investigators afraid of hackers, I like to think I'm part of the reason why that's no longer the case.
[17:12.510 --> 17:15.080]  But you have an enormous amount of overlap.
[17:15.270 --> 17:21.420]  You have a lot of people who were 14-year-old pains in the ass 20 years ago who are now special agents.
[17:21.420 --> 17:23.900]  And 34-year-old pains in the ass.
[17:24.300 --> 17:25.140]  And 30.
[17:25.290 --> 17:28.860]  But now they're armed and sanctioned pains in the ass.
[17:29.030 --> 17:29.900]  Oh, God, help us.
[17:30.820 --> 17:33.180]  You know, there's enormous overlap.
[17:33.180 --> 17:47.290]  And each year, especially when I give my talk, I see more and more people who I know personally coming to the talk, people who were at one time primarily in the hacker community and are now in the investigative community.
[17:47.290 --> 17:50.140]  There's a lot of cross-pollination now.
[17:50.140 --> 17:51.340]  So, interesting.
[17:51.460 --> 17:53.080]  Well, then this brings up an interesting question.
[17:53.200 --> 17:57.480]  If we're having all these amazing people from the investigative community coming, are they pre-registering?
[17:57.580 --> 18:01.660]  So, will they be able to investigate each other over the AMD website at Hope?
[18:02.490 --> 18:06.530]  Maybe you should explain to Steve just what this whole AMD thing, because I don't think we've told him about the badges.
[18:07.000 --> 18:08.180]  Yeah, the badges are very interesting.
[18:08.320 --> 18:08.440]  Go ahead.
[18:08.530 --> 18:10.420]  AMD stands for attendee metadata.
[18:10.700 --> 18:15.500]  And it's a project that's using RFID tracking systems to track literally thousands of our attendees.
[18:16.140 --> 18:18.820]  Probably safe to say that most of the attendees will be getting tracked.
[18:18.820 --> 18:19.660]  Not everybody.
[18:19.920 --> 18:25.030]  So, people who pre-register are going to be able to get a populated badge for sure.
[18:25.100 --> 18:25.900]  It's opt-in, by the way.
[18:26.040 --> 18:26.880]  Yes, it is opt-in.
[18:27.180 --> 18:28.530]  It's opt-in and you have to turn it on.
[18:28.620 --> 18:37.720]  I would say to every investigator, bring a film-safe bag that you can drop your credentials into during the convention.
[18:38.460 --> 18:41.180]  No, I don't think they'll be participating.
[18:41.180 --> 18:53.960]  Oh, because that would be entertaining, because we're also going to be having, I believe, some sort of web interface modeled after social networking websites where you'll be able to actually interact with all the information that you're sharing.
[18:53.960 --> 18:54.620]  There'll be screens.
[18:54.770 --> 18:59.700]  You'll see little dots on the screen that indicate certain people have a certain interest, and you'll be able to track them.
[18:59.770 --> 19:01.500]  Well, the information is all anonymized.
[19:01.500 --> 19:09.620]  Let me just say, if the FBI stops by the interface and asks for my little dot to be pointed out, you know, give me a call.
[19:09.770 --> 19:09.980]  Okay.
[19:10.860 --> 19:13.480]  I'm sure they won't identify themselves as such, though, but...
[19:13.480 --> 19:13.940]  Probably not.
[19:14.000 --> 19:20.820]  But if people are interested in getting those special badges and playing those games, we can only guarantee it to people who pre-register.
[19:21.000 --> 19:23.960]  We cannot guarantee that people come at the conference.
[19:23.980 --> 19:28.240]  You'll get a badge, but it might not be the badge that has all the gizmos attached to it.
[19:28.240 --> 19:32.480]  So go to www.hope.net and follow all the instructions for pre-registering.
[19:32.560 --> 19:35.030]  But you've got to do it soon, because we're quickly running out of time.
[19:35.120 --> 19:37.290]  I'd say a week at most is what you have left.
[19:38.670 --> 19:39.620]  So there's that.
[19:40.580 --> 19:43.880]  Now, okay, so you're also going to have a table, I understand, downstairs.
[19:43.880 --> 19:45.000]  I am going to have a table.
[19:45.180 --> 19:49.180]  We're going to be giving away a lot of goodies, a lot of high-tech goodies.
[19:49.930 --> 19:58.800]  And one of the reasons we're going to have the table is last year after the speech, which, unfortunately, I ate up about a half hour of the person's time following me.
[19:58.980 --> 19:59.270]  Yes.
[19:59.790 --> 20:04.900]  So this time, we're going to have a table, and I'm going to retire to that table at some point.
[20:05.030 --> 20:07.200]  And I'm going to be there all day Sunday also, by the way.
[20:07.300 --> 20:07.440]  Okay.
[20:07.820 --> 20:17.790]  And myself and the other investigators, we're going to make ourselves available to anybody who wants to come over, play with our systems, ask us questions, talk to us about anything at all.
[20:17.790 --> 20:20.800]  That's good, because you always give the talk on Saturday and Sunday and very big.
[20:20.900 --> 20:22.180]  There's a whole lot of people looking for you.
[20:23.460 --> 20:26.540]  And it's not an accident that I'm far, far, far away.
[20:26.790 --> 20:27.980]  But this time, you'll be there.
[20:28.160 --> 20:30.420]  Well, God willing, yes.
[20:30.880 --> 20:31.790]  I will be there.
[20:31.840 --> 20:32.920]  Let me just add one thing.
[20:33.770 --> 20:41.040]  At some point, this is, as anyone who's ever attended before knows, a participatory event.
[20:41.040 --> 20:54.790]  And we are looking for people whose privacy we can shamelessly invade, who we can give a digital proctology exam to, in the room with everyone watching.
[20:54.940 --> 20:55.290]  Okay.
[20:55.420 --> 21:03.640]  People who want to volunteer their true name, their true address, let us investigate them, so to speak.
[21:03.660 --> 21:05.360]  Well, what kind of mission can you find out about them?
[21:05.460 --> 21:08.800]  Let's say somebody there has nothing to hide, and they say, okay, I'm John Smith.
[21:08.800 --> 21:11.860]  I live at this particular address in any town in USA.
[21:12.120 --> 21:16.600]  Well, in 15 or 20 minutes, we can develop hundreds of pages of data.
[21:16.800 --> 21:20.240]  We're not going to take 15 or 20 minutes out of the talk to do that.
[21:20.600 --> 21:23.860]  It's going to be basically drive-by privacy invasion.
[21:24.660 --> 21:31.040]  We'll show that if you put in someone's phone number, in 15 seconds, you can have a name, an address.
[21:31.380 --> 21:47.300]  And not only a name and address, not just what used to be called CNA, but routinely now, date of birth is linked, social security number, spouse, driver's license number, vehicles, their business, all sorts of other information.
[21:47.500 --> 21:57.960]  This is going to be a demonstration, not just of investigative databases, but of artificial intelligence, cross-referencing, all the things we've been talking about for years.
[21:57.960 --> 22:03.960]  And is there anything else, like, can you see if somebody is on a particular voter registration list, if they're a sex offender, if they're...
[22:03.960 --> 22:06.180]  Sex offender, criminal record, that's automatic.
[22:06.380 --> 22:06.540]  Really?
[22:06.680 --> 22:08.140]  Voter registration, absolutely.
[22:08.480 --> 22:16.960]  Especially in the state of New York, we have in our office every single New Yorker's voter reg, not to mention 44 other states.
[22:17.320 --> 22:18.640]  Can you... you got that thing going right now?
[22:18.720 --> 22:21.620]  Yeah, in fact, in fact, here, you can play with this.
[22:21.740 --> 22:26.220]  Well, I can't do two things at once, but I'd like you or somebody in the studio to maybe look up somebody.
[22:26.220 --> 22:26.600]  You know what?
[22:26.600 --> 22:32.280]  If somebody wants to call in and give us some information over the air, give us a phone number or a name.
[22:32.280 --> 22:33.760]  Yeah, you know, I don't think that's... that's not a very good idea.
[22:33.920 --> 22:37.180]  We'll get all kinds of people's private information being bandied about.
[22:37.320 --> 22:38.220]  That's not necessarily theirs.
[22:39.040 --> 22:40.580]  But can you just plug in a name?
[22:40.880 --> 22:41.640]  I'd say...
[22:41.640 --> 22:41.760]  Well, sure.
[22:41.960 --> 22:44.000]  Michael Bloomberg, maybe, the mayor of our friends.
[22:44.080 --> 22:45.240]  No, I mean, that's... well...
[22:45.240 --> 22:45.680]  Why not?
[22:45.900 --> 22:46.620]  Michael Bloomberg.
[22:46.620 --> 22:48.980]  Yeah, he's already got his information out there, and he probably listens.
[22:49.300 --> 22:49.860]  That's probably on.
[22:49.860 --> 22:50.460]  Well, presumably...
[22:51.020 --> 22:51.480]  No, I just want to see how he's...
[22:51.480 --> 22:53.060]  Presumably, he's a registered voter.
[22:53.060 --> 22:54.080]  That's what I want to find out.
[22:54.080 --> 22:55.360]  What party is he registered with?
[22:55.400 --> 22:55.940]  Because he switched.
[22:55.940 --> 22:57.060]  Oh, he's a registered Republican.
[22:57.300 --> 22:57.880]  How do you know that?
[22:58.100 --> 22:59.100]  You looked him up already, didn't you?
[22:59.640 --> 23:03.180]  No, because he ran as the Republican candidate.
[23:03.280 --> 23:03.960]  Yeah, but he switched.
[23:04.160 --> 23:05.380]  He switched allegiances.
[23:05.560 --> 23:05.700]  He keeps switching.
[23:05.700 --> 23:06.300]  He keeps switching.
[23:06.360 --> 23:07.200]  So what is he now?
[23:07.280 --> 23:09.580]  That's what my question to you right now is.
[23:09.580 --> 23:12.020]  Well, he's an anti-gun weasel is what he is.
[23:13.400 --> 23:13.820]  All right.
[23:13.820 --> 23:16.860]  Your phone knows people's political positions on gun control.
[23:17.100 --> 23:17.820]  That would be fun.
[23:17.960 --> 23:18.640]  Kind of a good trick.
[23:18.960 --> 23:19.100]  Yeah.
[23:19.500 --> 23:24.360]  Some states, we actually have carry concealed weapons licenses in here also.
[23:24.600 --> 23:24.880]  Really?
[23:25.120 --> 23:25.780]  Whoa, that would be...
[23:25.780 --> 23:28.200]  Because this is primarily designed for investigators.
[23:28.220 --> 23:33.300]  If you go in and knock on somebody's door, it's usually helpful to know if they're going to have a gun in their hand when you knock on the door.
[23:33.440 --> 23:35.240]  Yeah, that's a good thing to know.
[23:35.360 --> 23:35.800]  We don't...
[23:35.800 --> 23:39.320]  By the way, we do not include that in the publicly accessible database.
[23:39.320 --> 23:40.200]  Well, okay.
[23:40.740 --> 23:42.500]  Maybe in two years.
[23:42.580 --> 23:44.640]  Well, we've got a whole bunch of Michael Bloombergs.
[23:44.900 --> 23:46.740]  A lot of fake Michael Bloombergs.
[23:46.740 --> 23:47.720]  Do you know what his middle initial is?
[23:47.780 --> 23:49.200]  Maybe I know the mayor's middle initial.
[23:49.500 --> 23:51.020]  Well, there's a whole bunch of Michael D.
[23:51.560 --> 23:52.420]  Bloombergs, Michael N.
[23:52.500 --> 23:53.940]  It's Michael R., isn't it?
[23:54.160 --> 23:54.500]  Yeah.
[23:55.000 --> 23:55.540]  I wish I...
[23:55.540 --> 23:56.260]  Jim says yes.
[23:56.660 --> 23:57.660]  Jim thinks it might be...
[23:57.660 --> 23:58.140]  Michael R.
[23:58.520 --> 23:59.580]  Bloomberg, age 68.
[23:59.960 --> 24:00.680]  Is he 68?
[24:00.760 --> 24:01.740]  He holds it well.
[24:01.960 --> 24:03.420]  Oh, here's his home phone number.
[24:03.560 --> 24:03.780]  Okay.
[24:04.140 --> 24:05.520]  Do not read that over the air.
[24:05.680 --> 24:06.620]  No, let's just call him up.
[24:06.720 --> 24:07.380]  Wait, he lives there?
[24:08.040 --> 24:08.400]  Apparently.
[24:08.720 --> 24:09.520]  He lives in a pretty nice house.
[24:09.520 --> 24:10.080]  It is Michael R.
[24:10.360 --> 24:12.240]  Bernie confirms that it's Michael R.
[24:12.360 --> 24:13.360]  I looked it up on Wikipedia.
[24:13.580 --> 24:14.080]  It must be true.
[24:14.240 --> 24:14.460]  All right.
[24:14.620 --> 24:15.120]  Yeah, yeah.
[24:15.260 --> 24:16.020]  Well, we've got...
[24:16.020 --> 24:23.720]  I'm not going to read this over the air, but we've got his home address and home phone, and apparently he's not a registered sex offender.
[24:25.020 --> 24:25.520]  All right.
[24:25.520 --> 24:26.620]  But he is a registered Republican.
[24:27.780 --> 24:29.540]  Don't even say that, because so am I.
[24:29.700 --> 24:30.680]  Don't even do that.
[24:31.340 --> 24:44.700]  By the way, a week ago, somebody posted to Twitter, because I've got a Twitter alert set up in my system, and it said something like, that asshat right-wing Republican Stephen Rombaum is speaking at Hope again.
[24:45.460 --> 24:46.780]  What is an asshat?
[24:46.940 --> 24:48.600]  I don't know, but can we quote that?
[24:48.620 --> 24:50.280]  Does that mean I wear my ass as a hat?
[24:50.700 --> 24:52.060]  You know, it might be.
[24:52.140 --> 24:53.440]  It might be the etymology of the term.
[24:53.440 --> 24:57.620]  That part is proudly true, but I'm pretty sure I'm not an asshat.
[24:58.080 --> 24:58.100]  All right.
[24:58.100 --> 24:58.760]  Well, we'll retweet...
[24:58.760 --> 24:59.560]  I can't even say the word.
[24:59.720 --> 25:00.940]  We'll retweet that.
[25:01.240 --> 25:01.580]  Yes.
[25:01.720 --> 25:02.340]  That's what we'll try to do.
[25:02.340 --> 25:03.700]  I feel like an idiot talking this way.
[25:03.960 --> 25:04.320]  But yeah.
[25:05.690 --> 25:06.040]  Repost.
[25:06.200 --> 25:07.300]  Do you have fun with Twitter?
[25:07.420 --> 25:08.640]  Do you do things...
[25:08.640 --> 25:10.020]  Can we learn about privacy?
[25:10.020 --> 25:17.320]  I actually do have a personal and a company Twitter account, which I want you to know I started.
[25:18.880 --> 25:25.660]  You may remember you and I had a long conversation about Twitter and how it allows tracking people and privacy invasion or whatever.
[25:25.800 --> 25:27.480]  Especially now with like geographical information.
[25:27.640 --> 25:29.260]  Well, you'll see some stuff...
[25:29.260 --> 25:29.480]  Who does that?
[25:29.600 --> 25:33.040]  Well, we suck it down, and I'm going to show you something we've done with Twitter.
[25:33.710 --> 25:35.040]  But imagine this.
[25:35.160 --> 25:38.020]  You're tweeting, and it tells people where you're located.
[25:39.080 --> 25:40.420]  It's a stalker's dream.
[25:40.440 --> 25:43.420]  There are dozens of programs that do that now.
[25:43.680 --> 25:54.240]  Location-aware programs are now the flavor of the month, as are GPS-linked programs, as are analysis programs based on your IP address.
[25:54.240 --> 25:56.500]  I understand why authorities want to track you.
[25:56.580 --> 25:58.820]  Why do people want themselves to be tracked?
[25:58.940 --> 25:59.940]  That's why I can never understand.
[26:00.580 --> 26:13.440]  You know, this is something we talk about a lot during the Privacy is Dead seminar, that 90% of the data that I gather on people and that law enforcement gathers on people is self-contributed.
[26:13.860 --> 26:28.760]  You know, typically, over a year of your online life, you put up not just your name, address, your phone number, your age, and all of that, but you put up your photo, your likes, your dislikes, your sexual orientation, your politics, who your friends are.
[26:28.760 --> 26:36.780]  And we're going to be talking a lot about how you can deduce everything about someone through something called the big sort, your affiliations.
[26:37.670 --> 26:45.900]  The vast majority of what I gather on you and that everyone gathers on you is stuff you've self-contributed.
[26:46.100 --> 26:49.240]  You know, as an investigator, thank you very much.
[26:50.160 --> 26:53.180]  As a normal person, what the hell are you thinking?
[26:53.380 --> 26:53.500]  Yeah.
[26:53.640 --> 26:59.360]  I mean, people post pictures of them getting all trashed at a party and then people at work find out and they get fired and...
[26:59.360 --> 27:08.200]  Every drunken Cancun photo that you have ever posted to Flickr, if it's not in my office, it's definitely somewhere that you can't erase it.
[27:08.520 --> 27:11.340]  Once it's on the net, you can never make it go away.
[27:11.420 --> 27:13.460]  The thing is, lots of times, you're not the person posting it.
[27:13.500 --> 27:14.860]  Somebody else takes a picture of you.
[27:14.860 --> 27:15.940]  Why you're all drunken Cancun.
[27:15.940 --> 27:18.900]  And again, thank you, but what the hell are your friends thinking?
[27:19.040 --> 27:19.200]  Yeah.
[27:19.680 --> 27:24.180]  And if you think about it, it's also interesting because it's not like people don't realize this, I feel like.
[27:24.260 --> 27:32.860]  You know, what happens now, right, with the media, if somebody, I don't know, dies or is arrested for something, they used to, I guess, get mug shots or get things...
[27:32.860 --> 27:34.320]  Now they get the photo from Facebook.
[27:34.420 --> 27:36.160]  This is the Facebook photo of the alleged terrorist.
[27:36.280 --> 27:37.260]  You know, even these...
[27:37.260 --> 27:39.200]  Although sometimes they get it wrong, which is funny.
[27:39.360 --> 27:40.380]  They can put somebody else's photo.
[27:40.400 --> 27:45.420]  By the way, when the Russian spy story came out a couple of days ago, they grabbed all the spies' Facebook photos.
[27:45.520 --> 27:46.180]  Like YouTube videos.
[27:46.180 --> 27:49.280]  I mean, I didn't know that there was like an espionage group on Facebook.
[27:49.800 --> 27:50.740]  Apparently there is.
[27:50.900 --> 27:58.600]  Apparently one of the friends, people on this person's friend list, leaked all the photos and information and status updates all to the media.
[27:58.620 --> 28:02.800]  And they had pictures of their Farmville account and what they were growing there.
[28:03.100 --> 28:05.840]  The thing is, the thing is, I mean, it's insidious.
[28:06.760 --> 28:08.660]  It's like slicing a salami.
[28:08.660 --> 28:13.420]  What people don't realize is, they say, oh, what's one photo going to hurt?
[28:13.660 --> 28:16.040]  What's one book list going to hurt?
[28:16.240 --> 28:17.800]  What's my age going to hurt?
[28:17.980 --> 28:32.380]  But there are now aggregation programs and ongoing, constant, 24-7, 365 net vacuums that you put this one little thing here and this one little thing there and this one little thing there.
[28:32.520 --> 28:35.740]  And within a year, you've put your entire life on the net.
[28:35.740 --> 28:49.080]  And that's why we want volunteers during the talk, because we're going to show what we can suck down, well, what we've already sucked down about you, and how your entire profile is in our hands.
[28:49.200 --> 28:55.640]  And by the way, even though we're large, we are not even remotely the largest entity doing this.
[28:56.040 --> 29:03.420]  And if you're horrified by what we're going to be able to display, you have no idea what's out there.
[29:04.120 --> 29:12.640]  It's just been really fascinating watching the internet culture develop and people develop around this, because what you have now are the kids on Facebook and everything else.
[29:12.820 --> 29:16.020]  The first generation that really grew up with this is sort of just something in the background.
[29:16.240 --> 29:18.400]  Oh, yeah, I'll tell the entire world where I am.
[29:18.520 --> 29:21.400]  I'll tell the entire world what my name is, where I live, what I'm doing with myself.
[29:21.740 --> 29:30.280]  I remember being a member of hacker culture in the late 90s and pulling a hat down over my face if people were taking my photo, because I wasn't comfortable having that on the net yet.
[29:30.820 --> 29:33.780]  And of course, nowadays, there's much more of my face on the net than is good for anyone.
[29:33.780 --> 29:34.560]  There's a lot of you on the net, yeah.
[29:34.740 --> 29:36.320]  I mean, that's the point.
[29:36.420 --> 29:38.300]  The concept of privacy is disappearing.
[29:38.760 --> 29:43.880]  You know, for me to broadcast my whereabouts is unthinkable.
[29:44.480 --> 29:51.960]  I don't want people to be able to come to the restaurant where I'm having a nice, quiet meal with someone and bother me.
[29:51.960 --> 29:54.480]  I don't want people to have my home phone number.
[29:54.980 --> 30:03.320]  You know, this is, this is, this is, one of the things we're going to be talking about, which is the most insidious privacy invader, is, is cell phones.
[30:03.640 --> 30:08.680]  We're going to talk about the information that cell phones gather about you, especially smartphones.
[30:09.260 --> 30:12.880]  If you use a cell phone over a period of a year, I own you.
[30:13.080 --> 30:15.420]  I know everything there is to know about you.
[30:15.660 --> 30:20.820]  Even if you don't put your home address on the net, I know where you live because that's where your phone is every night.
[30:21.000 --> 30:23.680]  I know where you work because that's where your phone is.
[30:23.800 --> 30:29.780]  I know who your friends are because you call them, you email them, you tweet with them, you IM them.
[30:29.940 --> 30:32.440]  I know what you read, where you go.
[30:32.580 --> 30:34.760]  I know what type of food you eat.
[30:34.860 --> 30:37.400]  I know what type of music you listen to.
[30:37.700 --> 30:39.380]  All of that just from the cell phone.
[30:39.580 --> 30:42.720]  Well, tell us, okay, with the cell phone, how would you find out where somebody lives?
[30:42.840 --> 30:45.660]  How do you get access to that geolocation?
[30:45.660 --> 30:54.340]  Well, first of all, most people... I'm not going to say most people, but there's a whole change in privacy culture where people broadcast their whereabouts.
[30:54.800 --> 31:01.020]  And for the people who don't broadcast their whereabouts, believe me, I can get your phone's location anyway.
[31:01.420 --> 31:02.940]  Any good investigator can.
[31:03.120 --> 31:06.600]  It's part of the modern investigator's bag of tricks.
[31:07.120 --> 31:17.500]  I can tell you that just... and this is something we have actual files for and actual documents, and we're going to show you some remarkable stuff.
[31:17.700 --> 31:21.620]  The FBI, about six months ago, was doing a leak investigation.
[31:22.060 --> 31:28.300]  And they took the reporter's cell phone, and they got the cell tower information from that phone.
[31:28.720 --> 31:34.640]  And what they did was they checked every phone that was in regular proximity to that phone.
[31:34.640 --> 31:38.180]  They were able to tell who that reporter was meeting with.
[31:39.000 --> 32:00.700]  There's a program out, and I spoke about it at the last conference, called RABI, R-A-A-B-I, that allows remote surveillance of any subject, and it sees who you're hanging out with, where you're eating, where you're staying, and it's all from GPS and Skyhook signals on your phone and other phones in the same proximity with you.
[32:00.700 --> 32:02.340]  Let's say you go into the back room.
[32:02.440 --> 32:09.280]  Let's say Vinny the Hook is using an iPhone, and he goes into the back room of Guido's Restaurant.
[32:09.460 --> 32:15.940]  And by the way, I'm using this because it is still politically correct to make ethnic jokes about mafia people.
[32:16.120 --> 32:18.100]  I couldn't do this if it was anyone else.
[32:18.280 --> 32:19.220]  I'm sure we'll get...
[32:19.220 --> 32:19.780]  American and I approve.
[32:19.780 --> 32:27.940]  Okay, and I've got an okay from an Italian guy sitting in close lupar range from me.
[32:27.940 --> 32:28.880]  I'll just sit this one out.
[32:28.980 --> 32:29.360]  Go ahead.
[32:29.400 --> 32:42.300]  But if Vinny the Hook goes into the back room of Guido's Fine Foods, and he's sitting there, and Tommy the Hat's cell phone goes into that back room...
[32:42.300 --> 32:43.500]  But Tommy, that's Irish, isn't it?
[32:44.260 --> 32:45.900]  No, it's a Tomasino.
[32:46.060 --> 32:46.780]  Depends on what kind of hat.
[32:46.860 --> 32:47.060]  All right.
[32:47.080 --> 32:48.300]  Depends what kind of hat, exactly.
[32:48.960 --> 32:52.140]  But if it's a pork pie hat, it's Irish, if it's whatever.
[32:52.260 --> 32:53.100]  Tread carefully.
[32:53.260 --> 32:53.980]  But exactly.
[32:56.020 --> 33:01.040]  You can tell who Vinny the Hook is meeting with, and for what duration, and where.
[33:01.700 --> 33:11.340]  We do a whole scenario during the Privacy is Dead lectures, talking about remote monitoring of crime groups without ever having to put them under surveillance.
[33:11.340 --> 33:13.940]  You know where they've gone, who they've met with.
[33:14.160 --> 33:17.120]  You can follow things that have occurred afterwards.
[33:17.320 --> 33:23.800]  You know who their wife is, who their mistress is, where they go at night, all from cell phones.
[33:23.840 --> 33:25.980]  I think their wives would be interested in that information as well.
[33:26.520 --> 33:34.760]  Well, and at a certain point, you know, when Vinny the Hook gets arrested, his wife, I suppose, can file a FOIA request for those surveillance logs.
[33:34.900 --> 33:36.160]  Yeah, I could just see that happening.
[33:36.240 --> 33:36.760]  Go ahead, Red Hecht.
[33:36.760 --> 33:48.500]  You know, it's also interesting because I think people, you know, you might be saying, oh, well, you know, I don't, you know, I only let certain things, I only give certain programs on my smartphone access to my location because I use them to whatever,
[33:48.720 --> 33:50.040]  tweet my position or whatever.
[33:50.200 --> 33:57.060]  But the thing is, once you've granted that permission to the application, then it can, you know, basically access that whenever it wants.
[33:57.060 --> 34:05.260]  And also, you know, there's a lot of applications that, for analytics purposes, request your location when they really have no business knowing it at all.
[34:05.420 --> 34:06.500]  Much worse than that.
[34:06.640 --> 34:08.580]  This has nothing to do with you giving permission.
[34:08.720 --> 34:09.220]  No, I realize what you're saying.
[34:09.220 --> 34:14.350]  We're going to be talking a lot during the Privacy is Dead seminar about Apple and Google.
[34:14.790 --> 34:18.140]  Apple and Google are phone companies.
[34:18.640 --> 34:22.850]  The phone company knows where your phone is at all times.
[34:22.850 --> 34:32.540]  The vast majority of the people buying new phones are not buying a cheap piece of crap Nokia flip phone or Motorola flip phone, except me.
[34:32.730 --> 34:32.950]  Wow.
[34:33.500 --> 34:36.210]  They're buying an Android phone.
[34:36.210 --> 34:38.020]  They're buying an Apple phone.
[34:38.150 --> 34:38.230]  Sure.
[34:38.500 --> 34:44.460]  They're buying phones that you have to sync your information by giving it to the company and getting it back.
[34:44.750 --> 34:50.670]  They're buying phones where, you know, Apple just spent $765 million.
[34:51.350 --> 34:54.810]  You know, I should do the little pinky by the corner of my mouth when I say that.
[34:56.290 --> 34:59.950]  $765 million for a mobile ad platform.
[35:00.670 --> 35:05.370]  Apple wants to know everything about you so it can serve you ads.
[35:05.580 --> 35:11.080]  The name of the game for every phone company now is to own your eyeballs.
[35:12.300 --> 35:16.850]  And by the way, you can't opt out of your phone company knowing where you are.
[35:16.850 --> 35:17.100]  Right.
[35:17.270 --> 35:23.520]  And I think a lot of people realize, I mean, you know, you know, Apple has technology where you can say, oh, if my phone gets lost, I can track it.
[35:23.650 --> 35:27.450]  But there's nothing saying that, you know, if you can remote activate it, so can they.
[35:27.670 --> 35:30.910]  But by the way, it specifically does say that in terms of conditions.
[35:31.270 --> 35:31.460]  Right.
[35:31.460 --> 35:36.770]  It says we're going to watch you, we're going to gather information about you, and we're going to aggregate it.
[35:36.770 --> 35:44.650]  But beyond just the phone company, which does know everything about you, people install apps on their smartphones that use location things for whatever purposes.
[35:44.850 --> 35:49.750]  But the fact of the matter is, once you grant them permission to do that, then they could use it for whatever they want.
[35:49.850 --> 35:54.170]  So you might be installing something thinking it does one thing, and it could be doing something completely different.
[35:54.270 --> 35:55.210]  It's just something to keep in mind.
[35:55.210 --> 36:00.580]  We're speaking with Private Eye extraordinaire, Steve Rambam, joining us in the studio tonight.
[36:00.730 --> 36:06.120]  He'll be giving a three-hour seminar at The Next Hope on July the 17th at the Hotel Pennsylvania.
[36:06.250 --> 36:09.560]  The Next Hope takes place from the 16th to the 18th, www.hope.net.
[36:09.710 --> 36:16.370]  We're taking phone calls, 212-209-2900, if you have any questions or opinions that you'd like to put forth.
[36:16.950 --> 36:18.580]  Let me just add one thing.
[36:18.580 --> 36:24.830]  Our website is www.pelerium, P as in Peter, A-double-L-O-R-I-U-M.com.
[36:25.210 --> 36:27.290]  All of our email addresses are up there.
[36:27.460 --> 36:30.870]  Please don't spam us, but do send us emails.
[36:31.230 --> 36:37.020]  Say, attention, Steve, regarding hope, if you want to be one of our privacy victims.
[36:37.190 --> 36:38.730]  I need five volunteers.
[36:39.210 --> 36:42.790]  Why would somebody want to be a privacy victim at your hands?
[36:42.950 --> 36:45.450]  It's a pretty cool thing to do, and it's interesting.
[36:45.580 --> 36:50.080]  Look, I would want to know what a stranger can find out about me.
[36:50.230 --> 36:51.250]  By the way, I agree with you.
[36:51.310 --> 36:54.060]  I'm not too sure that I'd want 3,000 other people to know that.
[36:54.060 --> 36:56.250]  But I would want to know that.
[36:56.520 --> 37:01.850]  Well, now, maybe you could tell us what happened to your last privacy victims from a couple of years ago.
[37:01.930 --> 37:03.290]  Well, let me say this.
[37:03.460 --> 37:08.750]  Rick Dakin, a great guy, a novelist, he wrote the Geek Mafia series.
[37:08.750 --> 37:11.370]  He just came out with a book called The Cthulhu Cult.
[37:11.390 --> 37:12.520]  I recommend it to everyone.
[37:13.250 --> 37:18.020]  He and I had a one-year contest where he tried to hide, and I tried to find him.
[37:18.770 --> 37:21.710]  We are still doing this book together.
[37:21.890 --> 37:23.950]  He literally went around the world trying to hide from you.
[37:24.060 --> 37:25.450]  Yeah, and we kept finding him.
[37:25.500 --> 37:27.430]  We did it by tracking his cell phone.
[37:27.560 --> 37:29.790]  We did it by pulling his public records.
[37:29.930 --> 37:31.910]  We did it by GPS tracking.
[37:32.150 --> 37:36.390]  We did it by every type of high-tech stalking imaginable.
[37:36.960 --> 37:40.450]  We did it by EXIF tags in his photo posts.
[37:40.810 --> 37:41.600]  Those are the worst.
[37:48.100 --> 37:50.060]  By grabbing his frequent flyer.
[37:50.150 --> 37:51.500]  But going back to the photos just for a minute.
[37:51.580 --> 37:57.020]  People post photos on Flickr, and if you just look at the original photo, what kind of information is in there?
[37:57.370 --> 38:05.150]  Well, two of the things that we're going to be talking about is EXIF tag tracking, which is now possible.
[38:05.310 --> 38:11.150]  If I have any photo that was taken from your camera, I can find all your other photos online.
[38:11.350 --> 38:12.230]  Think about that.
[38:12.430 --> 38:13.540]  Think about that.
[38:15.060 --> 38:17.190]  Stop submitting your EXIF tags.
[38:18.080 --> 38:20.670]  Second of all, we're going to talk about facial recognition.
[38:21.040 --> 38:24.430]  Facial recognition is now a very mature technology.
[38:24.790 --> 38:37.690]  I can tell you that a couple of weeks ago, I was in Lansing, Michigan, and I submitted to the Michigan Attorney General's office hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pedophiles that are on MySpace.
[38:37.950 --> 38:51.350]  And by the way, last week, the Michigan AG's office started kicking in doors of these people because they're not living where they say they're living, and they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing, and they weren't considerate enough to brag about it on MySpace.
[38:52.590 --> 38:53.170]  So...
[38:53.170 --> 38:54.580]  People still use MySpace?
[38:54.850 --> 38:56.000]  Yeah, it's hard to believe.
[38:56.210 --> 39:01.370]  And by the way, Facebook, thank you, Mr. Zuckerberg.
[39:02.230 --> 39:06.540]  Your websites are one-stop investigative shopping.
[39:06.790 --> 39:07.830]  They really are.
[39:07.830 --> 39:10.210]  Well, what if people have, though, that privacy enabled?
[39:10.250 --> 39:12.250]  Yeah, we'll talk about that, too.
[39:12.830 --> 39:21.350]  I mean, is there a single person listening to this broadcast that really believes that your internet profiles are remotely private?
[39:21.410 --> 39:21.980]  People did.
[39:22.080 --> 39:26.370]  And it's funny because I hear from them every now and then, like, I'm fed up with all this privacy invasion on Facebook.
[39:26.370 --> 39:33.250]  But, you know, if you really were so naive as to think that your information would be at all protected, you really got what you deserve.
[39:33.250 --> 39:36.450]  And the biggest privacy invader on Facebook is Zuckerberg.
[39:36.850 --> 39:38.730]  All right, well, 212, 209, 2900.
[39:38.750 --> 39:39.830]  We're going to take phone calls in a moment.
[39:40.150 --> 39:41.730]  First RedHack, then Bernie, then phone calls.
[39:41.750 --> 39:47.730]  There was actually another story today, speaking of social networks, with Foursquare, which is a location-based one where you check into...
[39:47.730 --> 39:48.310]  Absolutely.
[39:48.790 --> 39:49.930]  ...check into restaurants and such.
[39:50.150 --> 39:56.000]  And people who have privacy settings whereby only their friends can see their check-ins, you know, I guess thought that only their friends could see their check-ins.
[39:56.060 --> 40:08.710]  And while that's true on a sharing level, there was still a section on each restaurant's page that had a little grid of photos of people who had checked in there, whether or not they had made their account public or private.
[40:08.890 --> 40:12.850]  So somebody basically crawled all of those pages and just recorded...
[40:12.850 --> 40:13.810]  865,000.
[40:13.910 --> 40:15.450]  And just recorded who showed up on them.
[40:15.580 --> 40:16.750]  865,000 people.
[40:16.850 --> 40:18.230]  Of course they're going to want that information.
[40:18.350 --> 40:22.810]  Of course restaurants are going to say who is the mayor of that particular restaurant, which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
[40:22.810 --> 40:23.960]  No, it's not mayor.
[40:24.270 --> 40:31.290]  It was Bob the street cleaner ate at the pizzeria last night, but now the whole world knows it.
[40:31.290 --> 40:37.210]  A guy just wrote a simple web crawler, a simple grabber of photos and everything.
[40:37.390 --> 40:44.890]  There's now 865,000 people whose photos, names, addresses, and eating habits have been sucked down by a stranger.
[40:44.980 --> 40:45.430]  Absolutely.
[40:45.650 --> 40:46.020]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[40:46.500 --> 41:02.890]  I just want to say, Steve, I'm glad you brought up facial recognition because one of our really interesting, many interesting talks at the next tote is being done by Adam Harvey, who's done a lot of research on facial recognition and developed something called CV Dazzle.
[41:03.040 --> 41:05.950]  He's going to be showing people what he's found from research.
[41:06.370 --> 41:11.770]  Different hairstyles and face makeup will throw off a lot of these facial recognition algorithms.
[41:12.040 --> 41:12.960]  And he's done a lot of work.
[41:13.060 --> 41:14.060]  He's done a thesis on this.
[41:14.060 --> 41:16.950]  It's really based on way back to World War I.
[41:17.150 --> 41:18.690]  Steve is shaking his head.
[41:18.710 --> 41:23.410]  If you want a great event, set up a debate between me and this guy.
[41:23.430 --> 41:24.310]  I think it's on Sunday.
[41:24.560 --> 41:32.080]  Because if only 5% of your face is showing now, you can be identified through facial recognition.
[41:32.370 --> 41:38.230]  All due respect to this guy, I will bring with me all of the scholarly papers.
[41:38.230 --> 41:40.000]  I will bring video examples.
[41:40.270 --> 41:45.230]  Let me tell you that a trained monkey can bust through that now.
[41:45.410 --> 41:48.810]  There are now cameras with onboard analytics.
[41:49.080 --> 41:51.450]  You don't even have to write your own program.
[41:51.650 --> 41:53.350]  You get your photo database.
[41:53.410 --> 41:59.310]  You get this intelligent camera with what's called onboard analytics, onboard facial recognition.
[41:59.310 --> 42:02.250]  You plug your database into this smart camera.
[42:02.410 --> 42:08.080]  I don't care if the guy comes in looking like the elephant man with just one eye sticking out of a hood.
[42:08.230 --> 42:09.770]  This is going to identify him.
[42:10.210 --> 42:12.000]  That's a slight exaggeration.
[42:12.170 --> 42:12.310]  Slight.
[42:12.540 --> 42:16.770]  But facial recognition is an incredibly mature technology now.
[42:16.980 --> 42:17.170]  All right.
[42:17.250 --> 42:18.000]  We're here with Steve Romba.
[42:18.000 --> 42:18.560]  I hope you're talking about that.
[42:18.730 --> 42:18.980]  Yeah.
[42:19.100 --> 42:21.960]  We're here with Steve Romba, and we're going to take some phone calls.
[42:22.290 --> 42:24.170]  212-209-2900.
[42:24.350 --> 42:25.500]  Let's take our first one.
[42:25.770 --> 42:26.390]  Good evening.
[42:26.500 --> 42:27.190]  You're on Off the Hook.
[42:27.460 --> 42:27.750]  Hi.
[42:29.430 --> 42:35.350]  I've been listening to all this stuff about the HOPE Conference and fascination.
[42:35.350 --> 42:41.850]  And it sounds as if it must be a really expensive conference.
[42:42.350 --> 42:44.850]  Well, it's expensive to put on.
[42:44.980 --> 42:47.350]  It's not so expensive to go to, but yeah.
[42:48.230 --> 43:05.870]  Well, I was wondering, since I live below the poverty level, if I volunteer to be one of the five victims who is stripped bare in front of the public, whether that might be able to get me free admission.
[43:06.040 --> 43:13.100]  Well, tempting as that sounds, the way the conference works is that everybody pays to get in.
[43:13.330 --> 43:14.670]  And we keep this...
[43:14.670 --> 43:23.650]  This kind of conference, by the way, with this quality of speakers, normally people pay and companies pay thousands of dollars to go to.
[43:23.650 --> 43:25.150]  And that's just a fact.
[43:25.710 --> 43:28.350]  And we're offering this for so little.
[43:28.580 --> 43:30.830]  It's less than even other hacker conferences.
[43:31.170 --> 43:32.790]  And it's the only way we can survive.
[43:32.910 --> 43:34.410]  Because everyone volunteers.
[43:34.650 --> 43:35.520]  Everyone is a volunteer.
[43:35.650 --> 43:36.890]  Just taking me as an example.
[43:36.980 --> 43:39.120]  You can Google me on the internet.
[43:39.310 --> 43:42.710]  You can see the last conference that I gave two weeks ago.
[43:42.840 --> 43:45.750]  I did a full-day session on this topic.
[43:45.840 --> 43:49.460]  I got every single person paid $595 each.
[43:49.600 --> 43:49.900]  Yes.
[43:50.000 --> 43:51.000]  I'm doing this for free.
[43:51.120 --> 43:51.650]  And that's cheap.
[43:51.650 --> 43:53.420]  That's one of the cheap corporate conferences.
[43:53.750 --> 43:54.880]  Well, that's right.
[43:54.980 --> 43:58.000]  I mean, as-is is $1,195.
[43:58.540 --> 44:00.230]  See, we want to make things accessible.
[44:00.940 --> 44:07.210]  The hotel and the vendors, the AV vendors and people like that, they charge.
[44:07.750 --> 44:09.500]  They don't have different rates for different people.
[44:10.020 --> 44:10.980]  No, we can't say the price.
[44:11.230 --> 44:14.540]  But we can say that it's less than any other comparable conference.
[44:14.540 --> 44:18.120]  And that's why we survive, because everybody pays.
[44:18.120 --> 44:20.080]  Am I allowed to say it's less than a tenth?
[44:20.860 --> 44:21.770]  Yeah, you could say that.
[44:21.860 --> 44:22.340]  You could say that.
[44:22.380 --> 44:25.100]  Well, now that I know I can say it, it's less than a tenth.
[44:25.230 --> 44:27.820]  All the information is on www.hope.net.
[44:27.820 --> 44:30.920]  We depend on people showing up and pre-registering and things like that.
[44:31.000 --> 44:34.880]  Also, we mentioned that Steve will have a vendor table downstairs.
[44:34.920 --> 44:37.080]  If you're interested in that, we still have some space.
[44:37.650 --> 44:39.290]  Write to vendors at hope.net.
[44:39.600 --> 44:41.420]  And there's all kinds of...
[44:41.420 --> 44:43.020]  Mike, maybe you could outline that for us.
[44:43.190 --> 44:44.340]  You're running the vendor tables.
[44:44.340 --> 44:47.120]  Yeah, we got a bunch of old friends and some new friends.
[44:47.320 --> 44:48.980]  No Starch Press will be back.
[44:49.840 --> 44:55.230]  We got a number, a higher number than in the past, of people selling electronics kits.
[44:55.440 --> 44:59.710]  And, of course, you'll be able to take those to the Hackerspace Village and solder them together.
[45:00.770 --> 45:03.860]  We got people who just want to give you information about what they do.
[45:04.040 --> 45:04.690]  All kinds of stuff.
[45:04.840 --> 45:05.040]  Uh-huh.
[45:05.190 --> 45:10.560]  And, of course, we've got the usual Club Mate and 2600 gizmos and things like that.
[45:10.690 --> 45:12.940]  It's one of the more popular parts of the conference, too.
[45:12.940 --> 45:14.250]  I didn't even realize I had to say that.
[45:14.380 --> 45:15.650]  It's so obvious.
[45:15.900 --> 45:23.120]  Well, the exciting news is that there are five pallets of Club Mate on the high seas right now on their way to New York, and they're there for the conference.
[45:23.270 --> 45:24.320]  They better get off the high seas.
[45:24.520 --> 45:24.960]  I'm sorry?
[45:25.120 --> 45:26.340]  What exactly is that?
[45:26.560 --> 45:27.210]  Oh, you have...
[45:27.210 --> 45:28.730]  Some kind of hallucinogenic drink?
[45:28.880 --> 45:37.520]  Well, some people might say that, but no, it's an energy drink from Germany that's wildly popular with the Chaos Communications people, and we're bringing it over here.
[45:37.820 --> 45:43.880]  We've had it over here for the last couple of years, and it's proven to be not quite as medically popular as over there.
[45:44.000 --> 45:47.300]  For instance, they sold something like 11,000 bottles in a single weekend.
[45:47.540 --> 45:57.250]  We're hoping to sell 4,000, but it's an energy drink that is different from others, not quite as sweet, and you don't have a crash afterwards.
[45:57.250 --> 46:02.960]  Why in the back of my head do I hear Homer Simpson saying, an energy drink, you say?
[46:04.380 --> 46:04.650]  Yes.
[46:05.000 --> 46:13.190]  That's more of a natural forms of caffeine, so it's something that people use to stay up for a good portion of this conference, to help them out instead of just having coffee.
[46:13.190 --> 46:14.980]  Yeah, it's a good mix for hacker conferences.
[46:15.230 --> 46:16.400]  Let's take another phone call.
[46:16.480 --> 46:16.820]  Good evening.
[46:16.840 --> 46:17.880]  You're on Off the Hook.
[46:18.980 --> 46:19.710]  Speak up, please.
[46:21.020 --> 46:22.270]  Okay, you got to speak up.
[46:22.340 --> 46:22.840]  That's the rule.
[46:23.230 --> 46:23.710]  Good evening.
[46:23.860 --> 46:24.500]  You're on Off the Hook.
[46:25.290 --> 46:26.500]  Hey, great show, guys.
[46:26.500 --> 46:27.060]  Why, thank you.
[46:27.820 --> 46:30.980]  I have some information for you and a couple of comments and questions.
[46:31.190 --> 46:31.400]  Go ahead.
[46:31.500 --> 46:34.080]  The Hotel New Yorker holds the yoga conferences.
[46:34.080 --> 46:36.540]  I mean, that's right across the street from Madison Square Garden.
[46:36.620 --> 46:38.400]  If worse came to worse, have you explored that?
[46:38.460 --> 46:39.790]  Yeah, we have looked into that.
[46:39.820 --> 46:42.440]  They don't have anything near the conference space that we need.
[46:43.520 --> 46:46.730]  And Hotel Pennsylvania is a wonderful building.
[46:46.860 --> 46:48.480]  It's got all kinds of nooks and crannies.
[46:48.710 --> 46:56.420]  It's not the Ritz-Carlton or anything fancy like that, but it's a 1,700-room haven for people traveling from all over the world.
[46:56.500 --> 46:57.080]  That's affordable.
[46:57.680 --> 47:00.840]  And unfortunately, those people traveling from all over the world, they don't get a say.
[47:01.080 --> 47:08.210]  But if they show up on the 14th, in two weeks, they will get a say because they can stand in front of the city council and tell them why the hotel matters to them.
[47:08.250 --> 47:10.820]  I think it's a great opportunity for us to actually influence something.
[47:11.710 --> 47:12.020]  Right.
[47:12.020 --> 47:15.080]  I assume Madison Square Garden is way too expensive to hold.
[47:15.270 --> 47:16.600]  I mean, they have the space, but yeah.
[47:16.900 --> 47:19.670]  Yeah, that would be really out of our leagues.
[47:19.770 --> 47:20.290]  You had another question?
[47:21.100 --> 47:21.540]  Yes.
[47:21.710 --> 47:25.710]  The caller is fantastically intelligent, but this is very scary.
[47:25.710 --> 47:27.480]  We are living in the brave new world.
[47:27.480 --> 47:28.210]  You're the caller.
[47:28.860 --> 47:29.380]  I'm sorry?
[47:29.520 --> 47:30.000]  You're the caller.
[47:30.120 --> 47:31.750]  You said the caller is very intelligent?
[47:32.060 --> 47:32.580]  I'm sorry.
[47:32.580 --> 47:34.480]  I said the person you're interviewing tonight.
[47:34.620 --> 47:34.840]  Okay.
[47:34.940 --> 47:36.840]  I don't doubt the caller is intelligent, but you mean Steve.
[47:37.020 --> 47:37.210]  Okay.
[47:37.740 --> 47:39.750]  My mother will thank you for saying that.
[47:40.360 --> 47:43.320]  I do consider myself, though, as a Freudian, so very intelligent.
[47:43.580 --> 47:47.770]  And his mother will thank you because he already has all your information, so expect a call from his mother.
[47:49.120 --> 47:51.270]  We've traced your call, even as you speak.
[47:51.380 --> 47:51.750]  Go ahead.
[47:51.840 --> 47:52.840]  We don't want to scare you too much.
[47:53.540 --> 48:07.980]  No, but the good thing is that if everybody behaved in a normal way, I mean, even the way they were able to get this Times Square bomber, I mean, it's pretty incredible that technology and even these Russians had these secret networks and all of this stuff to try to...
[48:07.980 --> 48:09.150]  Secret Facebook networks.
[48:09.750 --> 48:17.000]  The Times Square bomber was arrested, ultimately, because he was as dumb as a bag of rocks.
[48:17.150 --> 48:18.150]  Yeah, I got that, too.
[48:18.170 --> 48:26.300]  I can assure you that that was not what you would call Adrian Monk-level police work.
[48:26.440 --> 48:26.940]  Well, yeah.
[48:27.270 --> 48:28.150]  This was...
[48:29.040 --> 48:38.980]  Every single person in this room with me, and probably you too, sir, could have found him just as quickly as the NYPD Intelligence Division did.
[48:38.980 --> 48:40.500]  There are a lot of dumb criminals out there.
[48:40.730 --> 48:41.080]  There really are.
[48:41.290 --> 48:41.520]  Thank God.
[48:41.710 --> 48:47.670]  That is the only thing that saves us from having all of Manhattan being a crater.
[48:48.250 --> 48:59.920]  Okay, but guys, but honestly, though, if everybody was open and honest about whatever taxes, and if we had a truly open society where nobody had anything to hide, in a way, we would have a more lawful society.
[48:59.920 --> 49:01.790]  And I have to give credit to Mayor Bloomberg.
[49:02.200 --> 49:07.270]  Having serial numbers on bullets, I mean, if you have a lawful gun and you need it, then it can be traced to you.
[49:07.360 --> 49:12.020]  So there is a lot of things that, yes, privacy is good, but what happens when people are up to doing things?
[49:12.300 --> 49:16.320]  Having an open society, you can't hide as long as you do the right thing.
[49:16.320 --> 49:22.520]  And it's appalling to just see how many people in the world are really lunatics.
[49:22.790 --> 49:23.980]  They even had American Greed.
[49:24.100 --> 49:29.900]  They had a guy who cornered the whole credit card market, and he was working with another guy.
[49:30.000 --> 49:31.750]  And this was like a mafioso.
[49:32.170 --> 49:35.820]  You know, you mentioned the mafia before, but this was a classic, but this was all done.
[49:36.040 --> 49:37.980]  I don't know if you saw this on American Greed.
[49:38.290 --> 49:40.820]  And I wanted to ask you, are you a private investigator?
[49:41.040 --> 49:42.440]  What do you do, actually?
[49:42.440 --> 49:56.770]  I am a private investigator, we're licensed in a number of states, and I wish that this was a three-hour show so I could spend about an hour talking about why you are completely wrong about serial numbers and bullets, but...
[49:56.770 --> 49:58.020]  Well, that's an issue in and of itself.
[49:58.250 --> 49:59.960]  It sounds like a brave new world to me.
[50:00.100 --> 50:02.320]  Unfortunately, this is not the NRA show.
[50:02.320 --> 50:05.920]  An open and honest society where we have nothing to hide, I can't imagine a bigger hell than that.
[50:05.940 --> 50:10.900]  Come to hope and maybe we'll find out more about this, because he'll have more than one hour to talk about this.
[50:11.170 --> 50:11.520]  Right, I can.
[50:11.980 --> 50:13.290]  Oh, I thought you wanted to say something.
[50:13.380 --> 50:14.380]  Okay, let's take another phone call.
[50:14.650 --> 50:14.960]  Absolutely.
[50:14.980 --> 50:21.190]  If that gentleman wants to come to my table and talk to me for a half hour about serial numbered bullets, I'd be happy to.
[50:21.320 --> 50:23.520]  Well, that's a quick conversation about that subject with you.
[50:25.240 --> 50:26.270]  212-209-2900.
[50:26.340 --> 50:26.560]  Good evening.
[50:26.670 --> 50:27.210]  You're on Off the Hook.
[50:27.230 --> 50:27.480]  Go ahead.
[50:28.520 --> 50:28.840]  Hello?
[50:29.060 --> 50:29.860]  Yes, what's on your mind?
[50:30.100 --> 50:30.600]  Oh, hi.
[50:30.880 --> 50:40.040]  I just wanted to mention, there's a lot of support growing for federal expungement bill and the House of Representatives, and I want to get that word out to everybody.
[50:41.560 --> 50:48.820]  That it's got to happen this year before November, or it'll reset and it'll have to start from scratch.
[50:49.420 --> 50:49.730]  Okay.
[50:49.840 --> 50:51.620]  Is there a place people can get more information?
[50:51.940 --> 50:52.500]  Yes.
[50:52.730 --> 50:59.080]  Website is www.federalexpungement.com and www.wewantourlivesback.com.
[50:59.080 --> 51:02.980]  There's a lot of great information there, and I think it's important to a lot of people out there.
[51:03.170 --> 51:03.380]  Okay.
[51:03.580 --> 51:04.480]  Thanks for the info.
[51:04.600 --> 51:04.900]  Steve?
[51:04.940 --> 51:20.520]  And let me just say, as regards to that caller, that's another thing that's fairly meaningless because you may be expunged from the courthouse or sealed in the courthouse, but there will be a hundred different private criminal records databases that will still have that information,
[51:20.750 --> 51:22.210]  including my office.
[51:22.210 --> 51:22.750]  Okay.
[51:22.820 --> 51:25.460]  We have a packed switchboard here, so let's try and get through as many as we can.
[51:25.540 --> 51:25.820]  Good evening.
[51:25.940 --> 51:26.840]  You're on Off the Hook.
[51:28.040 --> 51:28.480]  Hi.
[51:28.710 --> 51:30.400]  I got a question for Steve.
[51:30.710 --> 51:31.060]  Go ahead.
[51:32.500 --> 51:32.940]  Yeah.
[51:33.440 --> 51:43.340]  What are some of the things that people should, you know, do in order to protect themselves, you know, who are not going to hope, you know?
[51:43.860 --> 51:44.300]  Sensible.
[51:44.440 --> 51:45.880]  Don't give out your information.
[51:46.230 --> 51:48.500]  Somebody says, give me your social security number.
[51:48.500 --> 51:49.120]  Say no.
[51:52.210 --> 51:53.100]  Say no.
[51:53.320 --> 51:55.750]  Get a post office box or a mail drop.
[51:56.300 --> 52:00.840]  Don't give people copies of your driver's license or your ID.
[52:01.100 --> 52:03.480]  I mean, bottom line, common sense.
[52:03.790 --> 52:11.750]  The best piece of advice I can give you is, the minute you give away a piece of information, it is gone forever.
[52:12.000 --> 52:14.000]  It will be repurposed.
[52:14.170 --> 52:15.520]  It will be redistributed.
[52:15.520 --> 52:22.520]  If you give one person your telephone number, that telephone number within a year will be in a dozen different databases.
[52:22.840 --> 52:28.500]  Not because somebody wants to invade your privacy, but because your data is worth money.
[52:28.800 --> 52:30.540]  It is simple capitalism.
[52:31.060 --> 52:32.730]  Don't give away your information.
[52:33.180 --> 52:46.500]  One thing that I generally do with any information that I might potentially give out is I actually think about it in terms of aggregate of everything I've given out and, you know, if all that, if you have any idea of how these systems connect to each other,
[52:46.560 --> 52:54.320]  any idea of how that'll come together and what kind of full picture that creates, that's something that some people might try to keep in mind.
[52:54.320 --> 53:01.360]  And, you know, if you give out photos about yourself, then you're just, yeah, he already said it already.
[53:01.440 --> 53:02.800]  There's no real reason to rehash.
[53:02.940 --> 53:03.100]  All right.
[53:03.170 --> 53:04.340]  Let's take another phone call.
[53:04.540 --> 53:04.920]  Good evening.
[53:05.060 --> 53:05.730]  You're on off the hook.
[53:05.980 --> 53:07.520]  You have one minute remaining.
[53:08.960 --> 53:10.360]  Oh, that's rather ominous.
[53:11.320 --> 53:13.020]  Oh, guys, any last thoughts?
[53:16.080 --> 53:16.880]  Oh, boy.
[53:17.080 --> 53:17.320]  Okay.
[53:17.440 --> 53:19.400]  Well, that's the voice of doom there.
[53:19.400 --> 53:21.120]  We have at least thought.
[53:21.340 --> 53:21.730]  Good evening.
[53:21.920 --> 53:23.000]  You're on off the hook.
[53:23.290 --> 53:25.000]  Yes, I'm Tom from the Bronx.
[53:25.250 --> 53:25.900]  Make it fast, Tom.
[53:25.920 --> 53:55.540]  And I like to say that I would like to see banks be forced to take from depositors and people that do business with the bank that if you don't have any will to make loans or to make loans or to buy any products, that you sign a statement saying so.
[53:55.770 --> 54:06.270]  And if someone contacts the bank and says, well, like I'm buying something or whatever, they know right away it's a fraud.
[54:07.300 --> 54:18.340]  And maybe it could be done, like, from two years, you know what I mean, when I renew it, or if I'm going to buy something, I let the bank know I'm buying something.
[54:18.560 --> 54:18.800]  Okay.
[54:19.060 --> 54:22.360]  We'll consider that, but it really doesn't affect anything we're talking about right now.
[54:22.440 --> 54:22.730]  Good evening.
[54:22.820 --> 54:23.480]  You're on off the hook.
[54:24.800 --> 54:25.420]  Speak up, please.
[54:25.920 --> 54:26.400]  Hi, guys.
[54:27.000 --> 54:27.500]  Hi, Rebel.
[54:27.540 --> 54:27.980]  How are you doing?
[54:28.080 --> 54:28.460]  See you at Hope.
[54:28.560 --> 54:28.840]  Good evening.
[54:29.020 --> 54:29.800]  You're on off the hook.
[54:31.400 --> 54:32.100]  Speak up, please.
[54:32.790 --> 54:33.270]  Yeah, how are you doing?
[54:33.400 --> 54:33.880]  Hi, what's up?
[54:34.740 --> 54:35.880]  Listen, I'm on the air right now?
[54:35.880 --> 54:36.480]  Yes, you are.
[54:37.040 --> 54:37.500]  All right, good.
[54:37.670 --> 54:38.040]  Oh, nice.
[54:38.290 --> 54:39.750]  Listen, real quick question.
[54:39.860 --> 54:45.230]  This thing about the GPS with the phones and being able to track somebody, real quick question.
[54:45.580 --> 54:48.980]  If you turn off the phone, are you still able to be tracked?
[54:49.170 --> 54:49.860]  Ah, good question.
[54:50.150 --> 54:51.860]  First of all, it depends on the phone.
[54:52.150 --> 54:54.820]  Second of all, which phone do you have?
[54:55.000 --> 54:55.650]  He's already gone.
[54:55.650 --> 54:56.060]  I'm sorry.
[54:57.120 --> 55:00.560]  Okay, well, A, it depends on the phone.
[55:01.500 --> 55:05.440]  B, there's a good reason why you cannot take the battery out of the iPhone.
[55:05.920 --> 55:07.230]  It's not a design flaw.
[55:08.230 --> 55:08.580]  Interesting.
[55:08.750 --> 55:09.040]  Think about that.
[55:09.100 --> 55:09.420]  All right.
[55:09.650 --> 55:10.290]  One more call.
[55:10.580 --> 55:10.920]  Good evening.
[55:11.040 --> 55:11.690]  You're on off the hook.
[55:13.250 --> 55:13.980]  Speak up, please.
[55:14.380 --> 55:15.040]  Yeah, hi.
[55:15.190 --> 55:15.750]  Hi, make it quick.
[55:16.060 --> 55:16.600]  What a great...
[55:16.600 --> 55:20.020]  Yeah, I really want to know how we can...
[55:20.020 --> 55:22.060]  Your guest is really something.
[55:22.340 --> 55:35.460]  I want to know how we can, not like what the other guy said, opt out, but how can we decontrol all this federal, unbelievable, combined surveillance, global?
[55:35.980 --> 55:41.230]  Is there any check we have on this global, what you said about Apple and Google?
[55:41.420 --> 55:42.060]  I mean, I...
[55:42.060 --> 55:43.100]  Absolutely none whatsoever.
[55:43.540 --> 55:44.540]  Absolutely zero.
[55:44.820 --> 55:45.340]  Because...
[55:45.340 --> 55:45.940]  Yes, go ahead.
[55:46.400 --> 55:47.690]  Absolutely none whatsoever.
[55:47.690 --> 55:53.100]  First of all, because all your information is already out there, you can't put the genie back into the bottle.
[55:53.100 --> 56:10.120]  And second of all, what you need to know is these are not governmental databases, these are private industry databases, and you have no control whatsoever over what a private business does, as long as it's done within the law, which it is.
[56:10.360 --> 56:11.800]  So, privacy is dead.
[56:11.980 --> 56:12.690]  Get over it.
[56:12.770 --> 56:13.060]  Okay.
[56:13.620 --> 56:19.600]  Well, we've been speaking with Steve Rombon, who will be giving a three-hour talk, and I think this shows how quickly three hours will go by.
[56:19.690 --> 56:21.440]  We certainly could spend another few hours talking about this.
[56:22.160 --> 56:24.920]  Please visit the HOPE website, register, pre-register, show up.
[56:24.980 --> 56:28.320]  It'll be great to have a lot of people there, www.hope.net.
[56:29.250 --> 56:36.620]  And since we aren't playing actual music, we're going to go out with something that's public domain, so we don't have to write it down, this stupid computer program.
[56:36.730 --> 56:37.420]  Rob, you have something to say?
[56:37.600 --> 56:39.020]  I'll start at 2,600 meetings on Friday.
[56:39.290 --> 56:40.150]  Oh my God, this Friday?
[56:40.740 --> 56:41.380]  All right.
[56:41.480 --> 56:42.320]  There goes the rest of my life.
[56:42.400 --> 56:42.560]  Okay.
[56:43.080 --> 56:44.150]  We'll see you here next week.
[56:44.190 --> 56:47.580]  Remember, next week, a two-hour show from 7 to 9, pre-HOPE.
[56:47.790 --> 56:47.900]  Yeah.
[56:48.940 --> 56:49.670]  Until then, good night.
[57:47.760 --> 58:07.420]  But your regenerative circuits are tuned asynchronously, and that causes concatenation
[59:38.440 --> 59:39.840]  in the intermediate amplifier.
[59:39.840 --> 59:41.200]  Ha, ha, ha, ha.
[59:41.260 --> 59:44.520]  A song about computers or hacking or something like that.
[59:44.620 --> 59:47.480]  Something to get you jumping here on Wednesday.
[59:48.320 --> 59:56.720]  Wednesday at WBAI New York 99.5 FM, June the 30th on this wonderful summer evening.