[00:30.960 --> 00:32.560]  And you're listening to Radio Station W.
[00:32.980 --> 00:33.640]  BAI New York.
[00:33.780 --> 00:34.620]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[00:34.700 --> 00:36.500]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:41.770 --> 00:43.670]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:44.030 --> 00:46.190]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:47.210 --> 00:49.190]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:49.790 --> 00:51.710]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:52.390 --> 00:54.510]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:57.370 --> 00:58.850]  Liddley Bump for the best.
[00:59.010 --> 01:00.010]  It's paid for worst.
[01:00.610 --> 01:02.530]  I hope that's understood.
[01:02.710 --> 01:03.570]  But Liddley Bump!
[01:50.380 --> 01:52.000]  I don't even know where to begin.
[01:52.240 --> 01:54.420]  This is Off the Hook.
[01:54.520 --> 01:56.640]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[01:56.640 --> 02:00.260]  We have no less than 19 people in the studio.
[02:00.880 --> 02:02.180]  Everyone say hello at once.
[02:02.460 --> 02:03.380]  Oh, hi!
[02:05.540 --> 02:05.900]  Wow.
[02:05.900 --> 02:06.440]  You know what?
[02:06.500 --> 02:06.800]  Okay, wait.
[02:06.800 --> 02:10.240]  As long as we have so many people in the studio, why don't we all do a legal idea at the same time?
[02:10.240 --> 02:11.540]  Because we'll never get this opportunity again.
[02:11.620 --> 02:12.220]  Here's how it goes.
[02:12.460 --> 02:17.240]  We're all going to say WBAI New York when I say go.
[02:18.840 --> 02:20.080]  WBAI New York!
[02:20.640 --> 02:23.740]  Alright, let's try that again because you've got to get it just right.
[02:24.220 --> 02:26.500]  We need a countdown or something.
[02:26.700 --> 02:26.700]  3, 2, 1?
[02:26.720 --> 02:26.980]  Okay.
[02:27.100 --> 02:28.620]  You can't just say go and expect us to know what you're going to say.
[02:28.620 --> 02:28.620]  Right.
[02:28.820 --> 02:29.180]  No, you're right.
[02:29.180 --> 02:29.460]  You're right.
[02:29.500 --> 02:30.380]  I haven't done this before either.
[02:30.540 --> 02:31.700]  Do we say on the one or the go?
[02:32.760 --> 02:35.020]  Well, if I say 3, 2, 1...
[02:35.020 --> 02:35.220]  Go!
[02:35.700 --> 02:36.620]  No, there's no go.
[02:36.900 --> 02:38.200]  The one is the go.
[02:38.360 --> 02:39.240]  You don't need another go.
[02:39.340 --> 02:40.840]  And Bernie, you're on the phone, right?
[02:41.360 --> 02:45.240]  Yes, but I'm afraid that I'll be delayed because of the sailor delay.
[02:45.580 --> 02:47.140]  Alright, we'll just say that's why you're delayed.
[02:48.500 --> 02:49.200]  Just kidding.
[02:53.740 --> 02:54.980]  3, 2, 1...
[02:56.380 --> 02:57.560]  WBAI New York!
[02:57.680 --> 02:58.940]  Voltaire, why did you say go?
[03:00.520 --> 03:01.920]  You ruined the whole thing.
[03:02.080 --> 03:02.880]  Now, we're going to do it again.
[03:03.100 --> 03:04.140]  Do not say go.
[03:04.280 --> 03:05.160]  You can say go.
[03:05.560 --> 03:06.520]  No, no one's...
[03:06.520 --> 03:07.280]  Alright, you know what?
[03:07.280 --> 03:09.120]  I'll say go just to make you happy, alright?
[03:09.220 --> 03:10.680]  After go, then we're going to say it.
[03:10.720 --> 03:11.580]  And this is the last time.
[03:11.680 --> 03:12.240]  We messed this up.
[03:12.360 --> 03:13.660]  We've blown it for now to...
[03:13.660 --> 03:14.400]  After go or on go?
[03:16.100 --> 03:17.660]  You're going to be on go in a second.
[03:17.960 --> 03:18.640]  Here we go.
[03:19.720 --> 03:21.640]  3, 2, 1...
[03:21.640 --> 03:21.900]  Go!
[03:23.520 --> 03:24.760]  WBAI New York!
[03:25.640 --> 03:26.960]  Okay, did somebody get New York wrong?
[03:27.180 --> 03:28.140]  Sounded like somebody said something out.
[03:28.220 --> 03:28.640]  Okay, whatever.
[03:29.120 --> 03:30.160]  We'll make that work.
[03:30.320 --> 03:31.000]  We'll splice it together.
[03:31.360 --> 03:31.960]  Greetings, folks.
[03:32.060 --> 03:33.780]  This is the post-hope show.
[03:33.780 --> 03:35.560]  We've lost all hope and here we are.
[03:37.500 --> 03:41.240]  Basically, the post-mortem after the next hope, which took place this weekend.
[03:41.240 --> 03:42.580]  If you weren't there, you missed it.
[03:42.820 --> 03:44.560]  You can tell we're all still a bit loopy.
[03:45.260 --> 03:46.020]  Speak for yourself.
[03:46.020 --> 03:46.600]  That's Mike.
[03:46.700 --> 03:49.900]  That's the voice of Mike there, who is the loopiest one here.
[03:49.900 --> 03:52.640]  I try to be, but this week I've got some competition.
[03:52.940 --> 03:54.860]  And Jim, welcome.
[03:55.140 --> 03:55.340]  Hello.
[03:55.640 --> 03:56.040]  Voltaire.
[03:56.420 --> 03:56.580]  Hi.
[03:56.680 --> 03:56.960]  Rob T.
[03:57.060 --> 03:57.380]  Firefly.
[03:57.640 --> 03:58.060]  Good evening.
[03:58.180 --> 03:58.440]  Gus.
[03:58.680 --> 03:59.180]  Oh, hi.
[03:59.460 --> 04:00.420]  And Bernie S.
[04:00.480 --> 04:01.000]  down in Philadelphia.
[04:01.700 --> 04:02.540]  Loopier than ever.
[04:02.680 --> 04:03.360]  Yes, absolutely.
[04:03.520 --> 04:08.080]  Everyone else, I'm going to ask to come up to the mic and introduce themselves, because there's just too damn many of you.
[04:08.900 --> 04:09.620]  Starting here.
[04:09.880 --> 04:10.420]  Tech Darko.
[04:10.900 --> 04:11.180]  All right.
[04:11.420 --> 04:14.400]  Y'all got to move up to the microphones, otherwise there's no way we're going to hear you.
[04:14.680 --> 04:14.920]  Go ahead.
[04:15.180 --> 04:16.380]  Big A from Vancouver, Canada.
[04:16.380 --> 04:17.000]  Wow.
[04:18.320 --> 04:19.760]  Mitch from San Francisco.
[04:20.720 --> 04:22.460]  You've got to move faster than this, B.
[04:22.720 --> 04:24.640]  John Harlocker, known as the Trash Guy.
[04:25.220 --> 04:25.720]  The Trash Guy.
[04:25.920 --> 04:26.300]  Dot Rett.
[04:26.740 --> 04:27.120]  Dot Rett.
[04:27.340 --> 04:27.400]  Yes.
[04:27.560 --> 04:28.220]  Cable Flame.
[04:29.340 --> 04:30.160]  Come on, come on, come on.
[04:30.340 --> 04:30.740]  Lexicon.
[04:31.260 --> 04:31.900]  No shouting.
[04:32.040 --> 04:32.800]  Adesio from Italy.
[04:33.180 --> 04:33.440]  All right.
[04:33.560 --> 04:34.400]  Kyle from Seattle.
[04:35.260 --> 04:36.540]  Cosmic Lint, also from Vancouver.
[04:37.160 --> 04:37.520]  All right.
[04:37.700 --> 04:38.480]  Who are you over there?
[04:39.000 --> 04:40.120]  Libro Optic from Queens.
[04:40.560 --> 04:40.860]  Really?
[04:41.200 --> 04:41.360]  Whoa.
[04:41.900 --> 04:43.700]  I haven't heard that voice over the airwaves in a while.
[04:43.960 --> 04:44.820]  Is there anybody else?
[04:45.220 --> 04:45.740]  That's all?
[04:45.740 --> 04:46.120]  Okay.
[04:46.700 --> 04:50.100]  Well, not everybody spoke, but that's a lot of people.
[04:51.040 --> 04:54.440]  And we all were at the Next Hope, and it was a blast.
[04:54.440 --> 04:55.120]  It was a lot of fun.
[04:55.220 --> 04:57.940]  It was educational and very tiring.
[04:58.640 --> 04:59.700]  I can't even...
[04:59.700 --> 05:00.680]  I'm still recovering.
[05:00.800 --> 05:02.400]  I don't know if anyone here is completely recovered.
[05:02.660 --> 05:02.860]  Me.
[05:03.400 --> 05:04.100]  But have you...
[05:04.100 --> 05:04.600]  Really?
[05:04.680 --> 05:05.300]  You got enough sleep?
[05:05.480 --> 05:06.300]  You're all...
[05:06.300 --> 05:09.020]  More people are showing up, I see, through the closed-circuit television.
[05:09.460 --> 05:10.420]  We have three more people.
[05:10.540 --> 05:11.440]  So we'll be over 20.
[05:11.440 --> 05:11.960]  Maybe there's...
[05:12.320 --> 05:12.760]  Oh, wow.
[05:12.760 --> 05:13.540]  This is going to be something.
[05:14.180 --> 05:17.140]  Walter, I have to ask, what's your secret, since I'm not?
[05:17.480 --> 05:17.760]  Yeah.
[05:17.960 --> 05:19.040]  I don't think anybody has recovered.
[05:19.140 --> 05:19.320]  Okay.
[05:19.380 --> 05:20.400]  Now, we're going to ask these three people.
[05:20.460 --> 05:21.320]  Come on in, three people.
[05:21.460 --> 05:22.900]  You identify yourselves immediately.
[05:23.320 --> 05:23.720]  Go ahead.
[05:23.820 --> 05:24.120]  Who are you?
[05:24.560 --> 05:25.180]  Hey, Emanuel.
[05:25.360 --> 05:26.020]  This is Nick Farr.
[05:26.420 --> 05:27.200]  You're Nick Farr.
[05:27.400 --> 05:28.100]  Yes, I'm Nick Farr.
[05:28.180 --> 05:30.040]  I'm the real Nick Farr, and I'm the only one standing up.
[05:30.140 --> 05:32.980]  We've only spoken through third parties before.
[05:33.120 --> 05:34.840]  We've never met face-to-face, so this is interesting.
[05:34.840 --> 05:36.860]  You can tell it's Nick Farr because he's wearing a suit.
[05:37.100 --> 05:37.280]  Yeah.
[05:38.440 --> 05:41.060]  The only one in New York wearing a suit.
[05:41.260 --> 05:42.840]  The only one on Wall Street, especially.
[05:43.160 --> 05:44.240]  Yeah, especially on Wall Street.
[05:44.380 --> 05:45.200]  There was nobody else.
[05:45.200 --> 05:46.560]  I was very disappointed in New York.
[05:46.840 --> 05:48.420]  But it's finally nice to meet you face-to-face.
[05:48.440 --> 05:49.660]  It is finally nice to meet you, too.
[05:49.820 --> 05:51.180]  And let me shake your hand there.
[05:51.340 --> 05:51.640]  Great.
[05:53.120 --> 05:53.640]  Who's that?
[05:54.160 --> 05:55.240]  Hello, it's Red Hacked.
[05:56.180 --> 05:57.000]  As usual.
[05:57.380 --> 05:59.240]  You have a BP shirt on.
[05:59.820 --> 06:00.460]  Well, sort of.
[06:00.720 --> 06:01.020]  All right.
[06:01.260 --> 06:01.900]  Well, good for you.
[06:02.500 --> 06:04.940]  And anyone else care to introduce themselves or are we shy?
[06:06.000 --> 06:07.540]  Come on, let's say who you are.
[06:08.040 --> 06:09.160]  I'm Caitlin Sherman.
[06:09.340 --> 06:10.420]  I'm Nick Farr's girlfriend.
[06:10.660 --> 06:11.780]  Oh, and where are you from?
[06:13.140 --> 06:15.200]  Nick is blushing a deep beet red now.
[06:17.560 --> 06:19.600]  I currently hail from Jersey City.
[06:20.000 --> 06:20.780]  Beautiful place.
[06:21.000 --> 06:22.380]  And I mean it, you got the big clock there.
[06:22.640 --> 06:23.620]  So, isn't it?
[06:24.120 --> 06:24.820]  You don't know about that?
[06:24.960 --> 06:27.740]  Well, I guess because it's facing away from you, but it's facing New York City.
[06:27.920 --> 06:31.420]  And we look at that all the time because we don't know what's going on usually.
[06:32.080 --> 06:32.400]  Okay.
[06:33.340 --> 06:37.760]  Especially now we don't know what's going on because it's the Wednesday afterwards.
[06:37.900 --> 06:41.500]  Now, Monday after a hope is always lost, at least to me it is.
[06:41.680 --> 06:42.240]  There was Monday?
[06:42.540 --> 06:42.900]  Yeah.
[06:43.300 --> 06:44.460]  Usually we sleep through it.
[06:44.560 --> 06:50.560]  And in my case, I was driving through it, going out to the island, getting trucks, coming back, that kind of thing.
[06:51.340 --> 06:52.100]  Loads of fun.
[06:52.220 --> 06:54.100]  And even now, I'm kind of...
[06:54.100 --> 06:55.100]  It's kind of like jet lag.
[06:55.300 --> 06:57.540]  You don't know when you're supposed to wake up or go to sleep.
[06:57.620 --> 07:00.920]  But the point is the conference was really incredible.
[07:01.060 --> 07:02.880]  We did a lot of fun things.
[07:02.880 --> 07:05.840]  We did a lot of things we've done before, new things.
[07:06.140 --> 07:09.480]  And I've heard almost unanimous praise from the attendees.
[07:09.780 --> 07:16.380]  Does anyone want to start and talk about some of the things that happened that... Oh, Redhack, you're raising your hand, but you're also really far from a microphone.
[07:16.560 --> 07:17.160]  So, yeah.
[07:17.320 --> 07:18.600]  Go up to one and tell us what...
[07:18.600 --> 07:19.040]  Yes.
[07:19.220 --> 07:23.660]  I wanted to start because what I wanted to talk about started people's experience to the conference.
[07:24.200 --> 07:24.280]  Uh-huh.
[07:24.500 --> 07:27.500]  You know, we did the registration electronically this year.
[07:27.840 --> 07:30.220]  And we didn't know if it was going to work.
[07:30.740 --> 07:31.340]  I mean, we knew that...
[07:31.340 --> 07:32.340]  What do you mean you didn't know it was going to work?
[07:32.340 --> 07:32.360]  No, no.
[07:32.360 --> 07:33.220]  We told me it was going to work.
[07:33.420 --> 07:41.320]  We knew that it would function, but we didn't really know what to expect in terms of what the attendees would do if they would, you know, follow directions and bring their tickets and such.
[07:41.800 --> 07:43.780]  And, uh, it worked out really well.
[07:43.960 --> 07:45.540]  Yeah, easy directions to follow, bring you tickets.
[07:45.780 --> 07:47.000]  Well, you know, you never know.
[07:47.080 --> 07:47.680]  But people didn't.
[07:47.720 --> 07:48.260]  Some people didn't.
[07:48.740 --> 07:51.840]  Some people wanted to, you know, have it on their cellphone and stuff.
[07:51.940 --> 07:57.720]  And of course, we planned ahead of time and accounted for those people, and you know, it went really quickly.
[07:57.860 --> 08:00.780]  I think that, uh, Mike was working with me there.
[08:00.940 --> 08:02.760]  And Jutes and Megan...
[08:02.760 --> 08:03.900]  Got pretty hairy sometimes.
[08:04.200 --> 08:04.840]  There were long lines.
[08:05.200 --> 08:06.100]  They were long lines.
[08:06.240 --> 08:07.220]  They were long lines.
[08:07.360 --> 08:10.440]  But they went for a way you went quickly, but there were a lot of people.
[08:10.440 --> 08:19.560]  Yeah, that was only really on the first day, on Friday, were the real long lines in the morning, obviously, because most people want to show up for all three days.
[08:20.160 --> 08:22.260]  But yeah, I think we worked through it pretty quickly.
[08:22.420 --> 08:26.860]  There was only one bit of shouting where somebody was taking too long and people behind them were aggravated.
[08:27.140 --> 08:29.100]  But that really only happened once.
[08:29.100 --> 08:30.460]  So I think it went pretty well.
[08:30.660 --> 08:39.480]  I think, you know, I definitely plan on repeating it for the next conference that I work on registration for.
[08:39.480 --> 08:47.200]  Yeah, well, it was a great move into the present day, I guess, from the antiquated system we used to have where we'd mail everything out through U.S.
[08:47.240 --> 08:47.720]  Postal Service.
[08:47.880 --> 08:52.660]  And again, I'd like to thank Aldert and the HXX Foundation for lending us the barcode scanners.
[08:53.080 --> 08:57.080]  We could have bought barcode scanners, but free is always better than money.
[08:57.280 --> 08:57.640]  Absolutely.
[08:57.940 --> 08:59.540]  I'd thank them more if they showed up.
[08:59.720 --> 09:00.580]  Well, yeah, that's true.
[09:00.660 --> 09:02.260]  I didn't see very many Dutch people around.
[09:02.500 --> 09:03.220]  What was up with that?
[09:03.620 --> 09:05.520]  A lot of Dutch people had other plans.
[09:05.520 --> 09:09.260]  There were a couple Dutch people there, but all the Dutch people who I know didn't show up.
[09:09.260 --> 09:11.480]  Well, the ones we know, and that's kind of strange.
[09:11.500 --> 09:12.260]  A lot of Germans, too.
[09:12.420 --> 09:13.080]  Germans, yes.
[09:13.120 --> 09:13.900]  A lot of people from all over the place.
[09:14.140 --> 09:19.520]  I think we tried our best, though, to be stern like Aldert and really stand in for him despite his absence.
[09:19.820 --> 09:19.900]  Mm-hmm.
[09:20.020 --> 09:20.260]  Walter?
[09:20.520 --> 09:24.000]  No, I just can make another Aldert joke about him being stern, but...
[09:24.000 --> 09:25.300]  Okay, but you're not going to.
[09:25.580 --> 09:25.940]  Gus?
[09:26.120 --> 09:30.800]  I have to say, Mike and Mark and Junts spent the vast majority of their time down there.
[09:30.820 --> 09:34.460]  I guess Junts went to his first talk of a hope ever this conference?
[09:34.540 --> 09:35.020]  Something like that.
[09:35.100 --> 09:35.560]  Something like that?
[09:35.680 --> 09:36.920]  Junts was allowed to leave registration.
[09:37.340 --> 09:48.640]  Well, I just want to understand is, like, there's these people who just come and they're like, I'm just going to do registration, and they do it, and they're absolutely integral to the conference, and yet they do not get to enjoy its delightful fruits.
[09:48.960 --> 09:51.580]  We enjoyed the conference sitting at registration.
[09:51.620 --> 09:52.260]  It's fun.
[09:52.400 --> 09:54.740]  You get to mock people who don't follow directions.
[09:55.960 --> 09:57.720]  And you guys were doing some soldering?
[09:57.820 --> 10:00.100]  People brought you down some soldering irons to work on your badges for a while?
[10:00.180 --> 10:02.460]  Yeah, I did some soldering down by the registration desk.
[10:02.720 --> 10:03.680]  Let's talk about the badges.
[10:03.680 --> 10:04.620]  Now, I'm wearing one.
[10:04.700 --> 10:05.640]  Is anyone else wearing their badge?
[10:05.740 --> 10:07.520]  Am I the only geek wearing a badge?
[10:07.800 --> 10:08.100]  Yes.
[10:08.260 --> 10:08.880]  Yes, you are.
[10:09.080 --> 10:09.900]  It's not flashing.
[10:10.000 --> 10:10.680]  Why isn't it flashing?
[10:12.720 --> 10:13.420]  You've worked it.
[10:13.640 --> 10:15.320]  Have you tried turning it off then on?
[10:18.270 --> 10:19.410]  Because that does help.
[10:19.630 --> 10:20.490]  It does help.
[10:20.670 --> 10:21.770]  It doesn't help with you.
[10:21.970 --> 10:23.650]  People don't believe it, but it does help.
[10:23.790 --> 10:23.910]  It's true.
[10:24.110 --> 10:25.050]  Also plugging it in.
[10:25.330 --> 10:25.990]  All right, all right.
[10:26.090 --> 10:26.910]  Well, it's...
[10:26.910 --> 10:27.750]  It's battery-powered.
[10:27.810 --> 10:30.790]  See, you can repair it with a key, but only RedHack knows how.
[10:30.990 --> 10:31.130]  Thank you.
[10:31.230 --> 10:32.670]  Please take care of my badge.
[10:33.090 --> 10:34.210]  It's been all different colors.
[10:34.350 --> 10:35.790]  It's been red, it's been green, it's been blue.
[10:36.090 --> 10:37.870]  And now it's green and flashing red.
[10:37.970 --> 10:38.690]  So that's cool.
[10:38.790 --> 10:39.310]  Thank you, RedHack.
[10:40.250 --> 10:42.770]  But did anybody do anything really neat with their badge?
[10:43.050 --> 10:44.570]  I made mine blue all the time.
[10:44.690 --> 10:44.890]  Yay!
[10:45.270 --> 10:45.510]  All right.
[10:45.570 --> 10:47.850]  You know, I was hoping for something a little bit more sophisticated than that.
[10:48.350 --> 10:49.270]  I like LEDs.
[10:49.270 --> 10:53.970]  I didn't actually do the hack myself, but I was talking with some folks at NYC Resistor.
[10:53.970 --> 10:59.270]  And they had came up with a hack, which is, it's posted on their blog at nycresistor.com.
[10:59.770 --> 11:11.950]  And basically what it was, was that if you touched the button part of the badge, if you will, it would listen, because they could, the badge's function is both transmitters and receivers.
[11:12.210 --> 11:17.630]  So it would listen for the next packet sent by somebody else's badge and then copy it and repeat it over and over again.
[11:17.630 --> 11:22.170]  So basically, it allowed you to clone other people's badges with your own badge.
[11:22.370 --> 11:31.030]  So the idea, obviously, behind the badge was that it was sending out an identifier that identified you as unique, but now you could go and copy other people.
[11:31.170 --> 11:34.090]  And so now the same ID might show up in multiple rooms.
[11:34.230 --> 11:37.810]  And who knows what kinds of problems that caused for the AMD people, but it was kind of cool.
[11:38.170 --> 11:39.730]  People were having fun with these things.
[11:39.770 --> 11:44.310]  I was too busy to actually play with mine, but I saw lots of people doing fun things.
[11:44.690 --> 11:45.550]  Alessio from Italy.
[11:46.490 --> 11:49.250]  It was my second hope this time.
[11:49.390 --> 11:56.030]  And the last edition, I had some problem with that badge that was flashing because I leave the battery on.
[11:56.250 --> 12:02.330]  And in London, police was asking me why I have in my bag something that was flashing.
[12:02.490 --> 12:05.290]  It was really difficult to explain them.
[12:06.630 --> 12:08.830]  But you went to London with something flashing.
[12:09.070 --> 12:10.690]  You should know it's against the rules there.
[12:10.910 --> 12:11.050]  Yeah.
[12:12.290 --> 12:15.490]  In fact, this time, I will remember to take off the battery.
[12:15.650 --> 12:16.630]  Yeah, so Boston as well.
[12:16.790 --> 12:18.750]  Just a public service announcement.
[12:19.010 --> 12:23.410]  If you are going to or live in Boston, take the battery out.
[12:24.790 --> 12:29.310]  And maybe don't leave it lying around in a public space where people might overreact.
[12:29.390 --> 12:31.250]  We're not responsible for what happens otherwise.
[12:31.810 --> 12:33.990]  Bernie, tell us something about your memories of the conference.
[12:34.570 --> 12:37.510]  Well, it's kind of a blur still, but it was...
[12:37.510 --> 12:41.490]  I have to really say in all sincerity, it was the best hope ever.
[12:41.990 --> 12:43.850]  And that may be exceeded next time.
[12:43.970 --> 12:47.790]  But everything seemed to run more smoothly than previous hopes.
[12:48.230 --> 12:50.170]  Everybody seemed to have a fantastic time.
[12:50.170 --> 12:51.450]  We had a ton of people there.
[12:51.850 --> 12:54.770]  There was so much good material, so many good talks.
[12:54.770 --> 12:57.770]  And it was just an incredible blast.
[12:57.870 --> 12:59.270]  And I was so glad to be part of it.
[13:00.070 --> 13:00.310]  Yeah.
[13:00.470 --> 13:05.070]  And everybody in this room played a major role in making it all happen.
[13:05.090 --> 13:10.230]  And I think that's a testament to the spirit of volunteerism and just creativity.
[13:10.610 --> 13:14.050]  We do something that very few are able to do.
[13:14.110 --> 13:16.510]  And we're lucky to have the opportunity to do this.
[13:16.510 --> 13:19.150]  I think we're inspired a lot by the European conferences.
[13:19.990 --> 13:21.990]  Next year, it'll be a CCC camp.
[13:22.430 --> 13:23.530]  Last year, it was HAR.
[13:23.950 --> 13:25.830]  Of course, the CCC Congress every winter.
[13:26.450 --> 13:27.870]  We learn things from this.
[13:28.110 --> 13:29.670]  And yeah, you mentioned the talks.
[13:29.790 --> 13:32.830]  Anyone have any favorite talks they'd like to discuss?
[13:33.010 --> 13:33.730]  Something they saw?
[13:33.890 --> 13:34.050]  Gus?
[13:34.270 --> 13:46.190]  There was a really great talk on the economy of malware, where this guy had gone through basically a bunch of Russian forums and translated them and figured out how much it took to rent a botnet, how much it took to own your own botnet.
[13:46.810 --> 13:49.050]  You know, buying credit cards, things like that.
[13:49.150 --> 13:50.510]  And he just did this great economic analysis.
[13:50.890 --> 13:55.070]  So yeah, I mean, it was just like this beautiful overview of, you know, what we know about that industry.
[13:55.230 --> 13:56.530]  And that was really edifying.
[13:57.450 --> 13:59.630]  We can't get the price of the malware out on the air.
[13:59.730 --> 14:01.370]  But if you go on the website, you can find out.
[14:01.450 --> 14:03.370]  They're very affordable compared to other malwares.
[14:04.190 --> 14:06.210]  Oh, that's a true bargain.
[14:07.250 --> 14:11.790]  Mitch, Nick, you want to talk about the hackerspaces and the hardware hacking area?
[14:12.170 --> 14:12.870]  Tell us how that went.
[14:13.110 --> 14:21.850]  Yeah, so me and Nick set up the Hackerspace Village the center of which was the hardware hacking area that I set up with the help of a lot of other people.
[14:22.370 --> 14:26.310]  There were hackerspaces represented from all over the world.
[14:26.310 --> 14:34.030]  And it was a temporary meta-hackerspace that was going on for the duration of the conference.
[14:34.310 --> 14:42.450]  So everyone could come by and be part of the community and make stuff, hang out, learn, share, and teach.
[14:42.890 --> 14:47.390]  Just like a hackerspace, you know, the hackerspaces are popping up all over the world.
[14:48.950 --> 14:58.430]  And people at the Next Hope had a little taste of what it could be like if they were at their own hackerspace, either one that exists or one that they're going to start.
[14:59.850 --> 15:00.690]  Nick, how about you?
[15:00.890 --> 15:04.370]  I think it's a sign of how powerful the Hope Conference is.
[15:04.670 --> 15:09.590]  Just two years ago, we introduced hackerspaces.org to everybody in the U.S.
[15:09.690 --> 15:13.290]  and told them their excuses were invalid and to go out and build hackerspaces.
[15:13.810 --> 15:16.790]  The Hackerspace Village was to the left of the escalators last year.
[15:16.790 --> 15:19.570]  And, you know, there were a couple of hackerspaces by then.
[15:19.730 --> 15:22.410]  It had only been a little while since the first Hackers on a Plane.
[15:23.190 --> 15:25.190]  And there was a lot of activity.
[15:25.330 --> 15:26.010]  There was a lot of buzz.
[15:26.090 --> 15:26.990]  It was nice.
[15:27.070 --> 15:30.510]  We moved into the much larger area where the hammocks were last year.
[15:30.690 --> 15:42.110]  And, Mitch, you tell me, but I think, you know, by the time we were halfway through Friday, it was clear that the Hackerspace Village had already outgrown their doubling in space.
[15:42.450 --> 15:49.230]  Yeah, it was really amazing because Friday when the conference first started, I'm looking, there's just a few people hanging out there.
[15:49.250 --> 15:52.410]  And I was wondering, is this a huge space that's a waste?
[15:52.450 --> 15:53.910]  And is this going to be used?
[15:54.030 --> 15:56.530]  But, yeah, by Friday night, it was mobbed.
[15:56.810 --> 16:07.430]  And there was no way to get to the tools without waiting for a while because everyone wanted to make things and hang out and see what projects people were working on.
[16:07.430 --> 16:11.670]  And to talk with people from various hackerspaces.
[16:11.830 --> 16:15.350]  You know, two years ago, there were something like 50 hackerspaces in the world.
[16:15.350 --> 16:19.770]  And now there's hundreds, hundreds and hundreds and more forming all the time.
[16:20.030 --> 16:25.210]  And I don't know how many were represented at the Hackerspace Village, but there were at least 50.
[16:25.690 --> 16:26.090]  Wow.
[16:26.330 --> 16:28.250]  And from how many parts of the world?
[16:28.730 --> 16:33.970]  Mostly from the U.S., but there were one, MetaLab from Vienna was there.
[16:33.970 --> 16:37.850]  There were people there from various CCCs in Germany.
[16:38.070 --> 16:38.310]  Uh-huh.
[16:40.490 --> 16:43.210]  And, God, my brain is still not at high capacity.
[16:43.410 --> 16:44.850]  No, that's totally understandable.
[16:45.150 --> 16:55.090]  I'd really be curious to know how they saw hope, people from Europe, people from Germany and various other countries, how they compare it to things that happen over there.
[16:55.190 --> 16:56.930]  I'm interested in that feedback.
[16:57.390 --> 17:05.270]  Well, this applies directly to what I was working on for most of the conference, but they said, oh, you finally got around to implementing our angel system.
[17:05.650 --> 17:07.190]  Yes, tell us about the angel system.
[17:07.390 --> 17:23.650]  Well, we didn't do a straight, faithful implementation of their angel system, which they used to manage volunteers and volunteer positions, but one of the changes that I tried to bring to the conference this year was to have a better organizational structure around both recruiting and applying volunteer labor.
[17:23.890 --> 17:39.530]  We started off earlier, I think, than most years in trying to get people to pre-register and email in saying they were going to volunteer and telling us what they were interested in and trying to get them scheduled in advance of the conference instead of just setting up a table and hoping people would show up.
[17:39.710 --> 17:41.830]  And I think it worked out really, really well.
[17:42.110 --> 17:51.950]  A couple other things we tried to do, which were straight from the chaos, the CCC game plan, was to track volunteer hours and make it very public how many hours people had worked.
[17:52.490 --> 17:59.630]  On top of that, implementing a minimum number of hours worked to get a T-shirt and providing a lot more incentives to have people available.
[18:00.250 --> 18:06.290]  A lot of people really want to volunteer, but I think what happens a lot of times in conferences is they don't know where they're going to be most useful.
[18:06.390 --> 18:09.730]  They don't know how to sort of take care of things.
[18:09.930 --> 18:16.710]  A lot of times, volunteers are just asked to sit at a position for a really long time, which is a boring job, especially if you're a volunteer.
[18:16.910 --> 18:24.590]  So another thing we try to do is to make sure that each position that we had available involved a little bit of walking around and checking in with people, meeting with people.
[18:25.210 --> 18:26.450]  Mitch, you mentioned on the list
[18:29.930 --> 18:31.030]  Yeah, it was great.
[18:31.430 --> 18:47.530]  There were volunteers coming to help make things run smoothly because there was me and Jimmy and there were a few volunteers who were there from the beginning, Constantine and other people that just came to the Hackerspace Village and saw what was going on and they wanted to help,
[18:47.890 --> 18:48.730]  like Mary.
[18:49.230 --> 18:50.030]  She was amazing.
[18:50.430 --> 18:56.530]  She helped so many people build their badges and hack their badges, which is not a beginner's project.
[18:56.530 --> 19:00.090]  And many beginners succeeded because of her and Constantine.
[19:00.330 --> 19:08.510]  But having a stream of volunteers continually come by was so wonderful and remind me and many other people to drink water.
[19:09.510 --> 19:18.910]  But I heard from other people throughout the conference that they're really happy that there was a stream of volunteers available and that's what helped make their areas successful.
[19:19.230 --> 19:20.130]  So good job.
[19:20.310 --> 19:21.970]  Just one final thing I wanted to mention.
[19:22.250 --> 19:24.370]  We had two volunteer coordinators this year.
[19:24.490 --> 19:36.430]  It was me and Lindsay, who I think is a little bit more microphone shy, but she did a lot of work behind the scenes and having two people, one always on shift at any time throughout the conference I think was one of the reasons everybody's saying it moved much more smoothly.
[19:36.630 --> 19:40.230]  You both did a phenomenal job and you were always present one way or another.
[19:40.390 --> 19:43.210]  I'm not sure how you did it, but it made all the difference.
[19:43.350 --> 19:52.390]  You're the face to all these people that come to us and stick around afterwards because you meet so many cool people at all these conferences that we stay in touch with for years.
[19:52.570 --> 19:52.910]  Alessio.
[19:52.910 --> 20:02.510]  From my point of view, I go as a speaker to a lot of conferences and I meet a lot of you of acrespaces all around.
[20:02.830 --> 20:17.930]  And the thing as an external witness I really appreciate is that there is a lot of people all around the world that is doing a lot of job, a great job that in my opinion is very appreciated by the community.
[20:17.930 --> 20:28.250]  In fact, the incredible thing is, for example, you are in Germany and Nick goes around and everything refers as him as a member of the CCC.
[20:28.930 --> 20:36.670]  And when German people is here in New York, even New Yorkers refers to them as are local.
[20:36.910 --> 20:42.350]  So this organization is very worldwide and well working and I really like it.
[20:42.470 --> 20:44.490]  It's a global community for sure.
[20:44.670 --> 20:52.570]  Yeah, you mentioned jobs that are appreciated and I think no job was more appreciated than what our friend John Harlicker had to do all weekend long.
[20:52.970 --> 20:58.890]  John, tell us how challenging it was to keep things clean.
[21:00.470 --> 21:05.790]  You were in charge of trash removal and keeping the bathrooms sanitary.
[21:05.930 --> 21:06.130]  Yes.
[21:06.450 --> 21:27.210]  But I should also point out that you are in fact the director of Urchin, the movie that came out a few years ago that I happen to be in and Phiber here is in and a bunch of other people you're extremely talented individual and yet here, you know, I think it speaks to the fact that we're all willing to literally get our hands dirty to make something work.
[21:27.450 --> 21:28.870]  Well, I directed Urchin.
[21:28.990 --> 21:35.910]  I've also directed some stage stuff and I produced some other films but I enjoy doing manual labor a couple times a year.
[21:36.130 --> 21:36.790]  I do.
[21:36.950 --> 21:37.450]  I like it.
[21:37.670 --> 21:42.890]  It's, you know, when you work with your brain you can be clever and not thorough.
[21:43.450 --> 21:43.970]  You know what I mean?
[21:43.970 --> 21:47.650]  Like you can get away with being clever and not having to do the deep work.
[21:48.030 --> 21:55.290]  So when you do something like taking out trash or keeping the bathrooms from stinking, there's nothing smart about it.
[21:55.430 --> 21:58.730]  You just have to, there's little clever things maybe you could do but most of it is just actually doing it.
[21:58.950 --> 22:03.350]  So I don't mind doing that a couple times a year and I like this community a lot although I'm not really a part of it.
[22:03.350 --> 22:15.490]  but my partner in my film company is the guy who does the covers for 2600 and we were able to cast a manual and fiber in that film, Urchin, which any of you can torrent with my blessing.
[22:15.830 --> 22:17.070]  We both got killed in that, right?
[22:17.170 --> 22:18.450]  Yeah, they got killed pretty spectacularly.
[22:18.470 --> 22:18.970]  I got killed in the bathroom.
[22:19.170 --> 22:20.370]  You got killed by a flying laptop.
[22:20.510 --> 22:21.710]  You got killed by a flying laptop.
[22:21.710 --> 22:23.710]  I got killed by a kid in the bathroom.
[22:24.010 --> 22:25.270]  With an electric fork.
[22:25.550 --> 22:25.750]  Yeah.
[22:25.930 --> 22:26.850]  He electrocutes in death.
[22:27.090 --> 22:27.310]  Yeah.
[22:27.550 --> 22:29.250]  I drew real blood though in that scene.
[22:29.370 --> 22:29.610]  You did.
[22:29.790 --> 22:31.250]  You didn't use that part of it.
[22:31.370 --> 22:32.870]  No, because you destroyed a...
[22:32.870 --> 22:35.350]  you got so into being killed that you destroyed a new sink.
[22:35.450 --> 22:35.950]  Well, I believe...
[22:35.950 --> 22:38.250]  And we had to fix it quickly to keep us from being thrown out of the venue.
[22:38.410 --> 22:39.790]  I just fell onto it.
[22:39.790 --> 22:40.630]  It wasn't my fault.
[22:40.790 --> 22:45.350]  But, you know, I believe in pouring myself into a scene and that's what I did.
[22:45.570 --> 22:50.170]  But tell us something about the filmmaking and are you working on new projects?
[22:50.390 --> 22:50.690]  Oh, yeah.
[22:50.850 --> 22:52.790]  I mean, we're really interested in new technology.
[22:52.930 --> 23:01.270]  There's a new camera out called a RED which shoots some amazingly large images that you have to break down into high-definition images.
[23:01.730 --> 23:05.010]  And we're working a lot with effects projects with those and we have a new project.
[23:05.710 --> 23:13.870]  I'm shooting a film in August up in Maine, a horror film called Shush or Die which involves Stephen King.
[23:15.030 --> 23:18.730]  And we were shooting on high-def there but the next project after that will definitely be RED.
[23:19.050 --> 23:22.610]  And, yeah, if you have something to say about RED I'd be interested in hearing because I'm learning about it.
[23:22.650 --> 23:24.690]  Kyle here is nodding vigorously when you mentioned RED.
[23:24.810 --> 23:27.410]  I have no idea what this RED is of which you speak.
[23:28.410 --> 23:35.970]  The RED camera project is it's basically their tagline is they want to make obsolescence obsolete.
[23:36.830 --> 23:46.630]  And basically it's like an upgradable camera kit you buy into and then they're releasing this new CCD or this chip called the Mysterium.
[23:46.750 --> 23:47.890]  And it's actually out now.
[23:48.190 --> 23:51.050]  And it's the kind of thing where early adopters can get involved.
[23:51.310 --> 23:54.150]  And basically this is higher resolution than HD.
[23:54.410 --> 23:58.670]  And I've worked a lot with HD and non-linear editing and that kind of thing.
[23:58.830 --> 24:01.710]  And it's a very, very cool platform.
[24:02.410 --> 24:05.530]  And they're sort of they sell you all the parts and pieces to it.
[24:05.690 --> 24:08.350]  So it is sort of like in-house and you deal with just RED.
[24:08.610 --> 24:10.010]  But it's an amazing platform.
[24:10.190 --> 24:12.990]  I've noticed that so many hackers are into photography as well.
[24:13.070 --> 24:13.910]  Why do you think that is?
[24:14.870 --> 24:19.310]  I think there's a lot of information that can be conveyed in a picture and I think hackers enjoy that.
[24:19.490 --> 24:23.070]  You know, it's a huge medium for communicating.
[24:23.410 --> 24:25.490]  Is that the same as 4K or is that something different?
[24:26.690 --> 24:29.610]  It does shoot 4K but that's not where it's stopping.
[24:29.830 --> 24:31.450]  The next one coming out will shoot 7K.
[24:31.630 --> 24:33.230]  It down converts to that kind of stuff.
[24:33.250 --> 24:36.990]  It has to down convert to 1080 lines of resolution to be viewable by anyone.
[24:37.110 --> 24:38.990]  There's like one projector that's out but no one has it.
[24:39.210 --> 24:39.510]  Rob T.
[24:39.590 --> 24:39.850]  Firefly.
[24:40.270 --> 24:50.770]  I think another parallel between photographers and hackers is I know these photographers who go nuts customizing their cameras getting, you know, the latest kit and just putting it all together to do weird things that they want and there's a lot of, you know,
[24:51.150 --> 24:54.210]  you could picture a hacker doing all the same things to his computer and gadgetry.
[24:54.710 --> 24:57.350]  It's kind of the same attitude.
[24:57.590 --> 24:58.070]  Ask Lex.
[24:58.690 --> 24:59.470]  We've got a photograph.
[24:59.910 --> 25:00.170]  Oh, he's in there.
[25:00.210 --> 25:00.570]  There he is.
[25:00.650 --> 25:00.770]  Okay.
[25:00.970 --> 25:02.470]  There's so many people here I can barely see everybody.
[25:02.550 --> 25:02.930]  Go ahead, Lex.
[25:03.110 --> 25:03.730]  What's the question?
[25:04.030 --> 25:04.250]  Oh.
[25:05.330 --> 25:06.710]  Oh, forget about it.
[25:06.830 --> 25:06.970]  Yeah.
[25:07.890 --> 25:08.990]  We're talking about photography.
[25:09.190 --> 25:09.430]  Yes.
[25:09.530 --> 25:10.530]  And I forget what the question is.
[25:10.630 --> 25:18.570]  I like taking things apart to see how they work and you can do that a lot with images and storytelling and video and that sort of thing.
[25:18.830 --> 25:18.970]  Uh-huh.
[25:19.390 --> 25:19.570]  Mitch?
[25:20.010 --> 25:20.270]  Yeah.
[25:20.410 --> 25:26.630]  Hacking is about just about any realm that people are into and there are geeks in all these different realms including photography.
[25:26.910 --> 25:34.990]  At Noisebridge, there's a lot of people who have been doing photography all their lives including me and we have a darkroom and there's a bunch of hacker spaces with darkrooms.
[25:35.130 --> 25:43.310]  There's definitely a correlation with hackers and photography as well as hackers in video and music and cooking.
[25:43.750 --> 25:44.130]  You name it.
[25:44.210 --> 25:46.770]  Speaking of music, Gus, tell us how the music went.
[25:47.050 --> 25:47.950]  I think it went quite well.
[25:48.210 --> 25:54.490]  I mean, the great thing that I've been saying since before the concert is that the 8-bit community is incredibly self-organizing.
[25:54.710 --> 26:05.850]  So we sort of said to them, you know, oh, you know, you guys, we'd like to have a couple artists and they're like, okay, we've got a total lineup and all our visualists are ready and we have all our equipment and we'll bring all our equipment and just tell us where to plug in.
[26:05.910 --> 26:07.330]  And I was sort of floored by that.
[26:07.430 --> 26:08.130]  They did a great job.
[26:08.270 --> 26:18.490]  But, you know, we love them because they not only are working at the really nitty-gritty level of like sound waves and then the circuit benders are working with actual, you know, bending wires and things like that.
[26:18.990 --> 26:23.130]  But they're also, the vast majority, I think, of the 8-bit musicians release in Creative Commons.
[26:23.430 --> 26:25.310]  And so we had them there.
[26:25.430 --> 26:28.370]  They played their music, sold a little merch, which is how they support themselves.
[26:29.350 --> 26:30.450]  And it was really great.
[26:30.830 --> 26:36.210]  Like, people told me that you can't get hackers to dance and we had some incredible dancers out there.
[26:36.310 --> 26:39.810]  It was just a couple guys I was just like, I went and I was like, how did you learn to dance?
[26:39.950 --> 26:41.370]  He's like, I taught myself.
[26:41.950 --> 26:42.670]  Just fabulous.
[26:42.850 --> 26:43.090]  It was great.
[26:43.090 --> 26:48.410]  And we actually streamed it out and we actually had a really interesting number of listeners.
[26:48.570 --> 26:49.070]  We kind of...
[26:49.070 --> 26:51.210]  Yes, Radio Statler was incredible this year.
[26:51.270 --> 26:57.530]  I was able to actually listen to parts of the conference from other parts of the hotel and find out what was going on that way as a real information source.
[26:57.670 --> 27:00.110]  But you guys, you had a whole lot of listeners this time.
[27:00.310 --> 27:06.010]  Yeah, actually, we had almost 2,000 unique listeners this time, which was a big jump over last time.
[27:06.150 --> 27:07.190]  We had a little hiccup.
[27:07.950 --> 27:15.230]  We probably could have hit over 1,000 simultaneous listeners, people listening at the same time during the WikiLeaks keynote.
[27:15.910 --> 27:23.470]  Unfortunately, unbeknownst to us, when our server reset the night before, our streaming server, it reset down to the default number of listeners, which is 300.
[27:23.750 --> 27:24.050]  Uh-huh.
[27:25.290 --> 27:25.690]  So...
[27:25.690 --> 27:27.190]  The trials and tribulations.
[27:27.450 --> 27:29.730]  Yes, we did not realize that happened, so it got reset.
[27:29.870 --> 27:33.810]  But we actually, it was an immense success this time.
[27:33.910 --> 27:36.710]  I mean, we had a lot of interesting people come out.
[27:37.750 --> 27:40.230]  Do you remember how many countries they came out of again?
[27:40.250 --> 27:40.650]  I forget.
[27:40.650 --> 27:41.770]  Yeah, I'm not sure.
[27:41.910 --> 27:43.730]  I know we hit at least four continents.
[27:45.010 --> 27:47.130]  But I'm not sure exactly how many countries we had.
[27:47.410 --> 27:53.130]  The guy who has that info is Nick Guy, who is still trying to decompress and get everything moved down to D.C.
[27:53.310 --> 27:55.250]  Yeah, a lot of decompressing going on.
[27:55.330 --> 27:57.010]  Of course, you'll have the archives.
[27:57.270 --> 28:00.810]  Yes, we actually just were able to pull it off of the machine last night.
[28:00.910 --> 28:01.550]  We found the machine.
[28:02.010 --> 28:02.370]  Oh, good.
[28:02.590 --> 28:04.870]  There's a lot of where's my machine going on.
[28:05.470 --> 28:18.010]  We lost the machine and we refound it and we uploaded the full stream last night and we're breaking it up because unfortunately right now the way the software we're using did it, it breaks it up in weird blocks so we have to edit it all together to do individual shows.
[28:18.530 --> 28:24.310]  But that should be up within a week or so and that'll be up on the Statler website radio.hope.net.
[28:24.690 --> 28:24.990]  All right.
[28:26.370 --> 28:27.750]  Now, who are you pointing to, Nick?
[28:27.990 --> 28:28.510]  Oh, okay.
[28:28.530 --> 28:29.510]  I can't see you.
[28:29.550 --> 28:30.010]  You're so far away.
[28:30.070 --> 28:33.150]  I know I'm behind everything but you'll have at least one listener in Africa.
[28:33.350 --> 28:41.850]  I was talking with my boyfriend who's doing tech teaching in Cameroon and he was like, oh, I've got to listen to that because he's a huge fan of the 8-bit scene and he was bummed that he missed the concert.
[28:42.150 --> 28:43.990]  Well, hopefully he turns people in Cameroon on to it as well.
[28:44.090 --> 28:44.470]  Yeah, yeah.
[28:44.610 --> 28:45.430]  That would be cool.
[28:45.590 --> 28:48.670]  He probably got us that continent at the very least.
[28:48.730 --> 28:50.410]  I know we definitely got Europe.
[28:50.910 --> 28:58.530]  I believe we got South America and Asia, obviously North America and I think that Africa was the last one we got.
[28:58.630 --> 28:58.990]  I'm not sure.
[28:59.090 --> 29:00.370]  He hasn't listened to it yet so I don't know.
[29:00.470 --> 29:02.510]  I would bet that we must have had some people in Australia, right?
[29:02.750 --> 29:03.970]  I think we did.
[29:04.090 --> 29:05.770]  We had people in real life from Australia.
[29:06.050 --> 29:06.390]  We did.
[29:06.630 --> 29:08.570]  How could we not have virtual people from Australia?
[29:09.330 --> 29:13.650]  You really have to hand it to people who are coming from Australia because they really they have to shell out to get here.
[29:13.790 --> 29:14.170]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[29:14.710 --> 29:24.510]  I just want to say you're mentioning listeners in other countries the FCC-licensed amateur radio station at the next call sign was N2H.
[29:24.710 --> 29:42.070]  We had lots of people surrounding that station and learning about amateur radio and with just a few watts, about three watts of power, we contacted other amateur radio stations in a lot of different countries like Croatia, France, Hungary, Cuba, Argentina,
[29:42.710 --> 29:45.350]  Canada, and a bunch of others I can't remember.
[29:45.570 --> 29:54.230]  And this was like with as much power as like a nightlight uses to establish data communications with countries all around the world.
[29:54.470 --> 30:10.090]  And not only that, but people were so inspired by seeing these demonstrations that a bunch of them took the FCC amateur radio exams that we offered on Sunday thanks to the W3VC volunteer exam team.
[30:10.090 --> 30:17.330]  and I think we had, what, I don't know if Lindsay's there in the studio, but we got like 32 people passed the amateur radio exam.
[30:17.410 --> 30:17.710]  Is that right?
[30:18.390 --> 30:20.130]  Is anybody here to verify that?
[30:20.610 --> 30:21.670]  I don't think anybody knows.
[30:21.670 --> 30:23.170]  I don't think the people can hear.
[30:23.410 --> 30:25.130]  Well, of course, there's that problem too.
[30:25.690 --> 30:28.270]  We wanted to know how many people passed the ham radio test.
[30:28.490 --> 30:28.990]  Does anybody know?
[30:29.590 --> 30:30.050]  I'm sorry, how many?
[30:30.210 --> 30:34.130]  I heard that 73 took and just about half passed.
[30:34.230 --> 30:35.210]  About half of them passed.
[30:35.310 --> 30:39.530]  And the ones who didn't pass, we're not mocking or saying anything nasty about.
[30:39.530 --> 30:42.990]  They can take it again and eventually they will pass it.
[30:43.490 --> 30:43.850]  Yep.
[30:43.970 --> 30:45.110]  So it was a lot of fun.
[30:45.230 --> 30:47.630]  We established contacts all over the world with The Next Hope.
[30:48.010 --> 31:04.250]  And it's funny, some people who contacted us contacted us knowing what frequencies we'd be on and were like 2,600 subscribers or had heard about, had been to Hope before but couldn't this time but they wanted to contact us remotely via the airwaves from around the world.
[31:04.350 --> 31:05.830]  So it was a lot of fun.
[31:05.830 --> 31:12.670]  And it's just amateur radio is like one of the oldest forms of communications hacking in existence for over a century.
[31:12.670 --> 31:14.350]  People have been doing this kind of stuff.
[31:14.490 --> 31:17.110]  So we hope to bring that back to The Next Hope.
[31:17.830 --> 31:21.270]  And Bernie, do you happen to know how many QSL cards we're sending out?
[31:23.110 --> 31:24.290]  I think over 100.
[31:24.290 --> 31:30.930]  We gave a lot of them away at the conference from people who brought their portable ham radios and established contact with the N2H station right there.
[31:31.070 --> 31:32.490]  So we filled out the cards and gave them...
[31:33.210 --> 31:33.890]  Wait, wait, wait.
[31:34.150 --> 31:34.770]  Hold on a second.
[31:34.890 --> 31:37.850]  You mean you can walk up to a ham radio station and get a QSL card that way?
[31:37.910 --> 31:39.330]  I thought you had to listen on the radio to get one.
[31:39.510 --> 31:39.990]  No, you do.
[31:40.130 --> 31:41.590]  People brought their portable...
[31:41.590 --> 31:45.870]  their what are called handy talkies that operate on multiple VHF, UHF bands.
[31:45.990 --> 31:46.750]  And you can just call...
[31:46.750 --> 31:48.070]  You can just call on the radio.
[31:48.170 --> 31:50.610]  It's still establishing radio contact with the station.
[31:51.110 --> 31:53.710]  But then they would just walk up and say, hey, can we get our card?
[31:53.850 --> 31:57.290]  But a lot of stations were around the world and we will be mailing those cards out.
[31:57.290 --> 32:03.470]  But I think overall well over a hundred QSL cards will be sent out.
[32:03.530 --> 32:07.770]  These are like little postcards that the amateur radio stations send to each other after establishing contact.
[32:07.910 --> 32:18.290]  And this year they were designed by the renowned hacker graphic novelist cartoonist Ed Piscor who did a fantastic job with the design.
[32:18.410 --> 32:18.970]  So thanks, Ed.
[32:19.270 --> 32:22.150]  And these cards are going to go out in the mail sometime soon.
[32:23.110 --> 32:27.410]  I was just going to say, I'm not impressed by people who contacted you from across the room.
[32:27.530 --> 32:28.690]  I could do that just by shouting.
[32:30.710 --> 32:32.150]  I could shout legally.
[32:32.430 --> 32:33.750]  But you're not a...
[32:33.750 --> 32:35.670]  you didn't do it through the radio wave.
[32:35.870 --> 32:36.650]  So, you know...
[32:36.650 --> 32:37.970]  Oh, he's doing it through the radio waves now.
[32:38.130 --> 32:39.570]  I'm talking to you in Philadelphia.
[32:39.610 --> 32:40.470]  It's like magic.
[32:41.630 --> 32:41.990]  Okay.
[32:42.710 --> 32:44.450]  Speaking of magic, artwork.
[32:44.690 --> 32:47.070]  We had a lot of art displays at the conference.
[32:47.310 --> 32:48.050]  And I know, Rob T.
[32:48.170 --> 32:49.530]  Firefly, you were involved in part of that.
[32:49.630 --> 32:50.750]  Lex, you were involved in part of that.
[32:50.890 --> 32:52.890]  Do you want to tell us how that went and what was involved?
[32:53.930 --> 33:03.770]  I think we had a neat theme this time around which was sort of the retro-futuristic Fritz Lang's Metropolis inspired, World's Fair inspired sort of the future from the past.
[33:04.490 --> 33:12.990]  And I think we did a pretty good job of getting everyone who was working on these things together and sort of doing their own things but within the theme.
[33:12.990 --> 33:15.750]  So we had a sort of cohesive show for people.
[33:15.750 --> 33:20.250]  I really hope we can get a lot more artists involved next time.
[33:21.410 --> 33:29.070]  We started out with three working on it and we ended up with about ten working on it in the end and we should have had a hundred piling in.
[33:29.550 --> 33:33.130]  I think I'd like to push for getting more people involved next time.
[33:33.910 --> 33:38.610]  And we also had some brilliant installation art which was who was in charge of that?
[33:38.970 --> 33:50.610]  Derevan got it rolling and then Sabrina took over and got them to all their spots and I pulled a couple extra ones in at the last minute there.
[33:51.050 --> 33:53.170]  Also there was a bit of audience participation I liked.
[33:54.650 --> 34:05.490]  My artistic partner Gray, she had set up this sort of model cityscape that you saw right when you came up the escalator and so you had these buildings sort of poking out of clouds and things with a zeppelin hovering over them.
[34:05.590 --> 34:17.650]  At some point during the conference somebody made a paper craft dinosaur and had him marching along the buildings and I think that was really cool and I think Greg kept the dinosaur.
[34:17.890 --> 34:19.130]  Was it a steam powered dinosaur?
[34:19.490 --> 34:21.590]  No, it was just a regular paper powered dinosaur.
[34:21.730 --> 34:22.350]  It was real retro.
[34:22.610 --> 34:22.730]  Yes.
[34:22.870 --> 34:22.990]  Nick.
[34:23.510 --> 34:44.130]  I just wanted to echo what Lex was saying and give a thanks warm thanks to Sabrina who took over and helped take care of the artists throughout there and also just in the art I think this year there was a lot more EL wire a lot more traditional hacker craft involved at least in the artwork that I saw this year and I perhaps think that that might be directly associated to the sorts of things that
[34:44.130 --> 34:45.370]  we had going on last year.
[34:45.930 --> 34:47.350]  So I was happy to see that.
[34:47.750 --> 35:10.570]  There was one installation in particular I cannot remember the fellow's name who did it but he had an EL wire model of an animation of Martin Luther King Jr.'s face which was lip-synced in time with one of his recorded speeches and it was really something to behold especially for someone with interests in sort of digital puppetry and animation I think and I wish I could remember his name.
[35:11.150 --> 35:14.630]  It was really complicated how he achieved that.
[35:14.990 --> 35:27.070]  At first you thought it was oh that's pretty simple he's just you know got it lip-syncing to whatever sounds are coming up but no I mean he was actually making the phonetic movements of the lips and making the eyes move and it was amazing.
[35:27.270 --> 35:28.110]  And it's already all over YouTube.
[35:28.350 --> 35:38.970]  Of course it wouldn't be a whole conference without segues we had those running day and night and actually I want to call upon two people Phiber and Kyle who both rode segues for the first time ever in their lives.
[35:39.290 --> 35:56.270]  I was so impressed especially with you Phiber how we had a guy there who was so good at calming people and instructing them on how to ride the thing safely and you were very hesitant at first and within 10 minutes you were riding the thing like a champ.
[35:56.490 --> 35:57.850]  I think even less than 10 minutes.
[35:58.150 --> 36:03.870]  I was a little nervous getting on it at first I wasn't expecting it to be moving on its own when I was trying to step onto it.
[36:03.990 --> 36:06.330]  It seemed very unnatural I didn't like the feeling.
[36:06.950 --> 36:07.070]  Yes.
[36:07.350 --> 36:15.370]  But after a few minutes yeah it's true you kind of get used to your you find your balance you find your center of gravity and then you could just dart off on the thing.
[36:15.790 --> 36:17.270]  And you were darting all over the place.
[36:17.470 --> 36:18.470]  Yeah it's extremely accurate.
[36:18.630 --> 36:19.990]  It can make really sharp turns.
[36:20.290 --> 36:21.590]  Yeah I was very impressed.
[36:21.790 --> 36:22.410]  Kyle how about you?
[36:22.690 --> 36:24.150]  I had the same reaction initially.
[36:24.390 --> 36:32.150]  It was like very awkward to get on because you would make sudden motions and it would move you forward or backward and it was very wobbly for me at first.
[36:32.510 --> 36:41.050]  But I got to the point like I was so comfortable it's like pretty much you think you want to go in a certain direction you sort of lean a little bit and you trust it and it just takes you off.
[36:41.150 --> 36:46.270]  It's very bizarre but I got really really comfortable with it in as much time you know 5-10 minutes.
[36:48.170 --> 37:02.210]  I would just like to add that the first time I rode a Segway was several Hopes ago I think maybe the fifth Hope and you know I rode the Segway for the second time in my life at the next Hope and the Segways we had were a lot better so it was a lot more fun to ride.
[37:02.210 --> 37:03.770]  Well maybe you're just a lot better at riding them.
[37:03.950 --> 37:04.230]  Perhaps.
[37:04.410 --> 37:19.450]  Yeah, it's an acquired skill but I was just so impressed with the professionalism of the people that we had showing attendees how to ride these things safely and enjoyably and it was just a great experience for one and all.
[37:19.530 --> 37:19.730]  Dot Red?
[37:20.250 --> 37:30.670]  Yeah, we were kind of required to and I would like to say that a good amount of that actually goes to the guys who were so kind enough to even provide the Segways to us.
[37:30.790 --> 37:46.810]  They were there showing all of us exactly things that many of us have actually ridden Segways before but he mentioned some things that even Veterans from the Last Hope didn't really think about and then they were able to pass that knowledge on and I think that helped made it go a bit more smoother than it might have otherwise.
[37:47.030 --> 38:09.950]  And of course we have to give all kinds of credit to our security team who really faced the challenge this year and met it admirably with imagination and kindness and all the things that you need and people who are keeping us all safe and they did they did a fantastic job with some really really strange circumstances circumstances and situations who wants to speak to that?
[38:10.290 --> 38:39.510]  There's a lot of pointing going on you're pointing at each other okay Alessio from an European point of view it's very strange for me to see Segway going around in a conference and the really strange thing was that near the Segway there were the lock-picking village so there was something so old in the roots of our culture and near there people going around with something that seems arriving from
[38:39.510 --> 38:42.090]  the future So it was really cool.
[38:42.310 --> 38:42.930]  It was.
[38:42.990 --> 38:43.470]  It really was.
[38:44.230 --> 38:52.430]  Now, okay, let's get to, I guess, what was the major attraction for many of the people who came to the conference, the talks.
[38:52.650 --> 38:57.130]  We had over 100 talks, well over 100 talks, if you include the unscheduled track.
[38:57.930 --> 39:02.390]  Anybody want to mention favorites or most notable ones?
[39:02.410 --> 39:02.610]  Mike?
[39:02.770 --> 39:04.850]  We had two talks on food this year.
[39:04.970 --> 39:05.830]  Okay, we did.
[39:05.970 --> 39:06.230]  We did.
[39:06.410 --> 39:07.990]  Which is good, because in the past we've had one.
[39:07.990 --> 39:10.170]  Well, at least two that dealt directly with food.
[39:10.270 --> 39:11.110]  I'm sure others mentioned it.
[39:11.110 --> 39:13.990]  Well, two talks that were in the program that had the word food in the title.
[39:14.150 --> 39:16.570]  We had the Guides talk, and we had Cooking for Geeks, I believe.
[39:16.850 --> 39:20.410]  Yeah, where I guess cooking is almost a synonym of food in the title.
[39:20.590 --> 39:21.610]  So I think that's good.
[39:21.630 --> 39:22.870]  We should have more next time.
[39:23.110 --> 39:24.030]  Okay, that's something.
[39:24.450 --> 39:27.890]  Guides project, he has a new project that I didn't know about before.
[39:28.030 --> 39:29.050]  It's called the Food Genome.
[39:29.530 --> 39:39.610]  And it can analyze, basically, the things you're eating, the things you like to eat, and suggest recipes and modify recipes for you in ways that will make you like them better.
[39:40.330 --> 39:43.350]  But it's been so popular since his talk that it's been down.
[39:43.790 --> 39:44.190]  Okay.
[39:44.850 --> 39:45.770]  So it's very sad.
[39:45.770 --> 39:46.510]  I want to see it when it's up.
[39:46.510 --> 39:47.110]  That does happen.
[39:47.190 --> 39:47.490]  Voltaire.
[39:47.750 --> 39:50.830]  We also had no talks on eagles, so I think that was equally good.
[39:51.190 --> 39:54.230]  Okay, well, I'm sure you'll be getting email about that from those fine folk.
[39:54.410 --> 39:54.810]  Gus?
[39:54.810 --> 39:58.390]  I thought you said eagles for a second there, and I was going to say again, bat echolocation!
[39:58.750 --> 40:01.370]  And the bat echolocation talk was everything I hoped for.
[40:01.650 --> 40:08.890]  The guy was talking about the shape of brain cells, and he was talking about, you know, he's showing us beautiful pictures of sort of like spectrograms and this great...
[40:10.190 --> 40:14.070]  He had some video of a bat flying through the dark and stuff like that.
[40:14.150 --> 40:18.310]  And that was really a cool talk if you just wanted to sort of get like a quick introduction to a really cool science thing.
[40:18.530 --> 40:24.250]  Now, Kyle, I know that you mentioned to me a talk that you saw that you really liked a lot about chemistry.
[40:25.050 --> 40:26.210]  Do you want to tell us something about this?
[40:26.610 --> 40:27.050]  Yes.
[40:27.370 --> 40:28.410]  It was...
[40:28.410 --> 40:37.510]  She was a pharmacist, and she was talking about biochemistry and her experience studying chemistry.
[40:37.850 --> 40:39.950]  And she was so sweet.
[40:40.130 --> 40:40.510]  She was...
[40:40.510 --> 40:42.230]  She had just a really good personality.
[40:42.450 --> 40:43.470]  She was very, very nervous.
[40:43.530 --> 40:53.450]  And I had just spoken, and I thought I was nervous, but she was, you know, doing a great job in the face of kind of this daunting, this daunting public event.
[40:53.630 --> 40:54.470]  And basically...
[40:54.470 --> 40:55.850]  She actually had things bubbling up on stage.
[40:55.850 --> 40:56.110]  Yeah.
[40:56.130 --> 41:00.070]  She was explaining solubility and giving this great crash course in chemistry.
[41:00.310 --> 41:06.470]  And she had this awesome concoction of vinegar, ink from a Sharpie, and turpentine.
[41:06.490 --> 41:08.610]  And then she added soda ash to it.
[41:08.730 --> 41:12.270]  And it like started foaming and bubbling all over the stage, all over the table.
[41:12.430 --> 41:17.050]  And like one of the security guys was so gracious, dived in, dove in with paper towels to help her.
[41:17.250 --> 41:24.170]  And she was just like, you know, going on with like what she had just done and sort of ignoring the huge like foaming mess she had made.
[41:24.230 --> 41:24.930]  But it was beautiful.
[41:25.110 --> 41:26.330]  She was so beautiful in that.
[41:26.610 --> 41:27.890]  I can hardly wait to see the video of that.
[41:29.010 --> 41:30.570]  That's just a very small sampling, Mike.
[41:30.630 --> 41:35.090]  And this reminds me that one of the things that several of the speakers told me is that they really liked our audience.
[41:35.250 --> 41:41.150]  A lot of them weren't from the community, didn't know what to expect from a room full of hackers.
[41:41.150 --> 41:46.670]  And they were all very pleased or mostly all very pleased with the reception they got from the community.
[41:46.770 --> 41:47.470]  So I think that's good.
[41:47.670 --> 41:49.690]  We had the best audience in the world, I think.
[41:49.850 --> 41:52.690]  And that was proven so many different times.
[41:52.810 --> 41:53.310]  Nick, do you have something?
[41:54.050 --> 41:55.930]  Oh, I was just going to, if we're talking about talks.
[41:56.050 --> 41:56.130]  Yes.
[41:56.550 --> 42:01.250]  Steel went until 8.05 in the morning for a record seven hours and five minutes.
[42:01.570 --> 42:04.770]  Robert Steel really set all records this time.
[42:04.870 --> 42:07.090]  And I'm hoping that, hoping we got it on video.
[42:07.890 --> 42:10.570]  That's going to be one hell of a premium when we offer that.
[42:10.930 --> 42:14.330]  Yeah, we were actually downstairs on Statler while we had one of the shows going on watching.
[42:14.490 --> 42:19.770]  And a couple of our people went upstairs to start jumping in and asking random questions that they tried to stump him on things.
[42:19.890 --> 42:21.430]  And he got every single one of them.
[42:21.590 --> 42:22.510]  A one man filibuster.
[42:23.130 --> 42:23.490]  Unbelievable.
[42:25.070 --> 42:25.430]  Wow.
[42:25.610 --> 42:25.830]  Okay.
[42:25.830 --> 42:26.310]  That's great.
[42:26.350 --> 42:27.450]  I hope he made it home safely.
[42:28.150 --> 42:29.630]  He's actually still there talking.
[42:29.750 --> 42:30.610]  Oh, he could be.
[42:31.570 --> 42:32.610]  No, he could be.
[42:32.670 --> 42:33.190]  He could do it.
[42:33.250 --> 42:33.930]  No, that's not true.
[42:33.930 --> 42:37.990]  He got in his car immediately after talking for eight hours and drove somewhere.
[42:38.170 --> 42:39.170]  And I don't know about that.
[42:39.230 --> 42:39.930]  He's still talking somewhere.
[42:40.090 --> 42:40.490]  Maybe.
[42:40.630 --> 42:40.830]  Yeah.
[42:42.030 --> 42:42.490]  Wow.
[42:43.090 --> 42:43.410]  Okay.
[42:43.530 --> 42:45.390]  Now, the big talks.
[42:45.490 --> 42:47.450]  The ones that got all the attention from the media.
[42:47.690 --> 42:50.570]  We had the, well, Julian Assange didn't show up.
[42:50.590 --> 42:52.110]  He didn't do the Skype thing.
[42:52.250 --> 42:54.090]  He didn't do a pre-recorded thing.
[42:54.090 --> 43:06.610]  Instead, we had Jacob Abelbaum, a WikiLeaks representative from the United States, give a rather long and spirited keynote address, which people seem to be quite pleased with.
[43:07.670 --> 43:13.710]  And, of course, our security team once again proved itself by, well, Jacob was very concerned.
[43:13.810 --> 43:17.090]  In fact, a lot of us were very concerned about how the federal authorities might react.
[43:17.090 --> 43:18.830]  There were federal authorities there, quite a few of them.
[43:19.390 --> 43:22.670]  In fact, they came early on Friday demanding access.
[43:22.730 --> 43:26.550]  And our security team said either you have a warrant or you pay for a ticket.
[43:26.810 --> 43:27.970]  They paid for tickets.
[43:28.190 --> 43:29.590]  So, but they were wandering around.
[43:32.710 --> 43:36.930]  Awesome, awesome security and registration people really standing up.
[43:37.110 --> 43:39.930]  They basically wandered around the entire weekend.
[43:40.070 --> 43:45.350]  Jacob was very concerned after his talk where he reveals himself as a WikiLeaks person.
[43:45.350 --> 43:48.250]  And, of course, we know they want to talk to Julian Assange very badly.
[43:48.810 --> 43:50.690]  How is he going to safely get out of the building?
[43:50.790 --> 43:56.330]  He actually had a flight out of the country scheduled out of New York airport for immediately after his talk.
[43:56.910 --> 44:02.790]  They worked it out so that if you were watching on stage, you saw somebody who looked like him leaving.
[44:02.870 --> 44:03.770]  It wasn't him.
[44:03.870 --> 44:04.530]  It was a fake.
[44:04.650 --> 44:12.990]  And he left through a different door, got out safely while everybody followed this fake person down to the lobby, press, attendees, feds.
[44:12.990 --> 44:17.950]  And when he took the hurdy off, I believe the truth was revealed and they were rather upset.
[44:18.090 --> 44:19.230]  Is that an accurate explanation?
[44:19.450 --> 44:23.270]  Yeah, as I was one of the three people who actually was with Jacob and getting him out of the building.
[44:23.510 --> 44:26.430]  As soon as he walked off stage, he was changed into two...
[44:26.430 --> 44:28.290]  He and his friend were changed into two security shirts.
[44:28.770 --> 44:30.570]  And we just wandered out through Lovelace.
[44:30.710 --> 44:34.890]  And no one paid any attention because we had been going through the entire time yelling at people about sitting in aisles.
[44:34.890 --> 44:41.430]  Because Lovelace was so overcrowded to the point where other people sitting there were like, if something happens, can we get out?
[44:42.330 --> 44:44.970]  We had four rooms packed for that keynote.
[44:45.310 --> 44:47.730]  We actually had to shut down Lovelace because of how overcrowded it got.
[44:47.890 --> 44:50.410]  And that wasn't even the room that the talk was taking place in.
[44:50.450 --> 44:51.190]  That was an overflow room.
[44:51.370 --> 44:51.710]  It was the overflow.
[44:51.830 --> 44:55.970]  We had two overflow rooms on the 18th floor and one downstairs on the second floor.
[44:56.050 --> 44:56.790]  They were all packed.
[44:56.790 --> 44:57.150]  Yeah.
[44:57.350 --> 45:01.750]  And we just walked out through Lovelace, right back to the freight elevator, walked downstairs.
[45:01.970 --> 45:03.590]  Now, no one paid any attention at all.
[45:03.690 --> 45:07.730]  And I got to see Warlord, actually, was the guy who has a similar build.
[45:08.290 --> 45:10.070]  When he hopped backstage, he threw on a hoodie.
[45:10.210 --> 45:10.510]  Nice.
[45:10.550 --> 45:12.630]  The security guys, you know, squirted him out.
[45:12.710 --> 45:14.190]  And they said, literally, there were people...
[45:14.970 --> 45:16.330]  They were playing Spot the Fed earlier.
[45:16.650 --> 45:19.510]  And three of the people who were tagged followed them downstairs.
[45:20.170 --> 45:23.450]  And when he walked outside and pulled the hoodie off, they kind of just took off and went other directions.
[45:23.450 --> 45:25.390]  Yeah, they really thought they were on.
[45:25.470 --> 45:31.430]  And of course, the security team, Big Frank and Rhodey, they know the catacombs of the Hotel Pennsylvania better than anybody.
[45:31.430 --> 45:37.370]  They can go down those freight elevators and go down secret corridors and work their way into any part of the building very quickly.
[45:37.570 --> 45:38.910]  So, a big advantage there.
[45:38.990 --> 45:39.130]  Nick?
[45:39.730 --> 45:44.490]  Well, I was actually unwittingly recruited into the two false flag operations that happened.
[45:44.490 --> 45:53.330]  The first of which involved two random girls from Iceland who were surrounded by security people coming down, coming out of Tesla very obviously.
[45:53.810 --> 45:55.850]  And then thrown into an elevator.
[45:56.150 --> 45:59.350]  Rhodey just came up to me at the very last minute and said, Nick, go hold an elevator.
[45:59.490 --> 46:00.870]  I'm like, okay, fine, I'll do that.
[46:01.210 --> 46:13.210]  Two minutes later, this pile of, you know, small cadre of humanity comes, boom, rushing into the elevator along with the reporter that I was trying to link up with Jake so that she could interview him on the way out to the airport.
[46:14.410 --> 46:16.430]  And then, then that happened.
[46:16.570 --> 46:21.290]  I was asked to hold another elevator and I saw the warlord false flag operation happen after that.
[46:21.630 --> 46:25.850]  So I got in on the two false Jake Applebombs missing the real one.
[46:25.950 --> 46:29.570]  I guess we used you as bait to sort of fool people.
[46:29.910 --> 46:31.950]  You know, suits attract other suits.
[46:32.090 --> 46:32.330]  Yeah.
[46:32.490 --> 46:33.790]  I thought that was the option.
[46:33.950 --> 46:34.490]  I've noticed.
[46:34.490 --> 46:44.970]  Now, the panel discussion that everyone's talking about now, the big controversial story involving WikiLeaks, involving Adrian Lamo, involving hackers.
[46:45.190 --> 46:46.990]  We had Phiber Optik.
[46:46.990 --> 46:48.490]  We had Bernie S.
[46:48.650 --> 46:50.830]  We had Kevin Mitnick all on the same panel.
[46:50.970 --> 46:52.730]  And then we brought Adrian Lamo up.
[46:52.730 --> 46:59.910]  And I got to give credit to our crowd for being respectful, even though some of them disagreed so strongly.
[46:59.910 --> 47:03.990]  And some of the people on the panel obviously did with Adrian's actions.
[47:04.130 --> 47:05.090]  But they listened.
[47:05.190 --> 47:06.250]  They listened to what he had to say.
[47:06.450 --> 47:09.370]  They asked him pointed questions, intelligent questions.
[47:09.370 --> 47:17.110]  And any judgment that you've arrived at based on that is something that you thought about.
[47:17.250 --> 47:18.770]  It's not just blindly following.
[47:18.930 --> 47:28.990]  And, you know, that's really what I wanted to accomplish with this, was to simply give people the opportunity to not read about it in Wired or some other place, but to confront it head on.
[47:29.030 --> 47:32.090]  And we had that opportunity because all the players were involved in Hope.
[47:32.090 --> 47:35.830]  And I'm really proud of our audience for doing this.
[47:36.070 --> 47:41.670]  They were a model for any democratic society and how you should deal with controversy.
[47:42.150 --> 47:46.670]  We had IRC on and we were chatting with people on the 2600 IRC network.
[47:46.890 --> 47:54.650]  And everyone was convinced that as soon as Adrian hit the stage that something crazy was going to happen, people were going to mob him, people were going to start throwing things.
[47:54.650 --> 48:03.830]  And watching how professionally all of the attendees act and how, while some of them were very upset and some of them were very aggressive, they were still very polite.
[48:04.210 --> 48:06.650]  And none of them were rude.
[48:07.410 --> 48:09.330]  None of them, you know, made threats.
[48:09.530 --> 48:12.890]  And everybody was blown away by just how well it went.
[48:13.110 --> 48:13.250]  Yeah.
[48:13.410 --> 48:15.450]  And that is why we do this.
[48:15.530 --> 48:17.490]  Because of that crowd.
[48:17.490 --> 48:19.190]  Because of that level of intelligence.
[48:19.270 --> 48:21.130]  That's the inspiration, Rob.
[48:21.130 --> 48:21.530]  Yeah.
[48:21.630 --> 48:25.230]  And I really got to thank you guys all for putting that together and making that happen.
[48:25.230 --> 48:29.790]  Because one of the things I have been saying about this case since the start is, you know, what information have we had?
[48:29.870 --> 48:30.810]  We've had one Wired article.
[48:30.990 --> 48:36.210]  We've had, you know, stuff from, you know, Adrian's own press releases and things like that.
[48:36.410 --> 48:38.690]  But, you know, the hacker way is to look for more data.
[48:38.830 --> 48:40.430]  And we desperately needed more data on this.
[48:40.510 --> 48:43.330]  And I think you succeeded in getting us toward that.
[48:43.550 --> 48:43.790]  Phiber.
[48:44.150 --> 48:47.030]  Yeah, I was actually a little worried because he was sitting next to me.
[48:48.950 --> 48:53.250]  I was actually worried I was going to get splattered with brain matter or something as soon as he sat down.
[48:53.590 --> 48:57.510]  Because the crowd was a little rowdy before, you know, before they calmed down a bit.
[48:57.890 --> 49:01.810]  Well, they were, you know, obviously emotional about what had happened.
[49:01.830 --> 49:03.950]  And we're not going to go over the whole story again.
[49:04.050 --> 49:05.430]  We've gone into it so many times.
[49:05.430 --> 49:12.550]  But suffice to say, they're the main players in a very controversial story that's been taking place throughout the last few months.
[49:13.030 --> 49:15.490]  And it just, it was all there.
[49:15.650 --> 49:18.630]  And rather than avoid it, we plunged into it.
[49:18.630 --> 49:19.570]  And I think that's what hackers do.
[49:19.670 --> 49:22.110]  They plunge into the fire, so to say.
[49:22.190 --> 49:24.190]  Bernie, how about your feelings on this?
[49:24.190 --> 49:29.790]  I want to thank you also for putting this panel together and for getting Adrian to speak at the last minute.
[49:30.110 --> 49:36.750]  Some new information was aired that had not been reported in any of the commercial media outlets.
[49:37.010 --> 49:47.550]  And it was really a very thorough airing of the issues that hasn't occurred in any other medium yet about this particular topic.
[49:47.550 --> 50:15.870]  I also want to mention that one HOPE attendee, a woman who wishes to remain anonymous, she made up a whole bunch of picture postcards available for other HOPE attendees to fill out with the best wishes for Bradley Manning, the young Army intelligence worker who is right now in a military brig in Kuwait for the foreseeable future for doing what he felt was his civic duty only to be turned in by
[50:15.870 --> 50:16.490]  Adrian Lamo.
[50:16.490 --> 50:24.050]  And I think nearly 100 people filled out these postcards with their best wishes, which she's going to mail to Bradley Manning.
[50:24.130 --> 50:35.350]  And I am certain, having been in that position before, I'm certain that these messages from supporters will boost his spirits, which I'm sure he needs right now.
[50:39.050 --> 50:40.450]  I hear that, Bernie.
[50:40.450 --> 50:47.090]  I agree with Rob as well, and that's sort of been my position is we need to be very sensitive to this and actually have a dialogue.
[50:47.350 --> 50:52.630]  And I want to acknowledge and commend Emmanuel, not condemn, commend you.
[50:52.950 --> 50:53.830]  Oh, go ahead.
[50:54.130 --> 50:58.410]  Because there was a lot to plunge into coming at you from all sides.
[50:58.990 --> 51:02.350]  And you did face it head on and the community faced it.
[51:02.590 --> 51:05.830]  And you guys really, you really made good on your promise.
[51:05.850 --> 51:12.930]  And I think everybody got their, their, their tickets worth out of this because, you know, that's the dialogue we needed to have.
[51:13.250 --> 51:22.770]  And I've got, I've gotten a better sense of the entire issue and I'm not hearing it from, from rumor or from, you know, whatever someone others, someone else's opinion is.
[51:22.770 --> 51:24.470]  And so I just wanted to acknowledge you.
[51:24.610 --> 51:25.150]  Well, thanks.
[51:25.270 --> 51:29.290]  But how, how do you guys feel that it went discussion wise?
[51:29.530 --> 51:32.490]  Do you feel that any minds would change?
[51:32.750 --> 51:36.570]  Did Adrian present a case that tell you anything that you didn't already know?
[51:36.790 --> 51:40.110]  I'm disappointed that I know now just as much as I did before.
[51:40.110 --> 51:45.050]  I was hoping that he was going to do, do a better job of explaining why he did what he did.
[51:45.050 --> 51:51.350]  But after his lengthy explanation, it's exactly the situation that I thought it was.
[51:51.450 --> 51:57.190]  And I think he really, he really misled, he really misled people who gained his trust.
[51:57.390 --> 52:01.470]  He misrepresented himself as a journalist in order to gain that trust.
[52:01.710 --> 52:03.370]  And the story is as it is.
[52:03.470 --> 52:05.250]  I think that he should have just walked away.
[52:05.670 --> 52:06.090]  Nick.
[52:07.370 --> 52:09.210]  I disagree on one point.
[52:09.210 --> 52:18.870]  I think anybody who was there and saw how he behaved during the weekend and had any personal interaction with him could see that it was, what he did was purely self-serving.
[52:19.010 --> 52:19.630]  Oh, that's true.
[52:19.750 --> 52:19.850]  Yeah.
[52:20.230 --> 52:27.030]  I mean, that, that, that, I think the way he acted at the conference removed any doubt of that, that there was no, that people who call him a hero.
[52:27.110 --> 52:34.390]  I mean that, that you can view his actions as heroic if that's the way you feel, but just interacting with him throughout the course of the weekend was clear.
[52:34.390 --> 52:37.310]  Do you want to be more specific as to what you mean by the way he acted?
[52:38.090 --> 52:42.210]  Um, I, no, everything that he was doing there was incredibly self-serving.
[52:42.270 --> 52:43.850]  It was the Adrian Lamo show.
[52:44.030 --> 52:44.270]  Uh-huh.
[52:44.910 --> 52:45.190]  Yeah.
[52:45.370 --> 52:54.590]  You know, it, it wasn't about him trying to open up a dialogue or explain things to try to convince people of his point or to try to interact there, but it was all like, I'm Adrian Lamo, give me stuff.
[52:54.910 --> 52:55.230]  Uh-huh.
[52:55.690 --> 52:56.970]  And, and look at me.
[52:57.110 --> 52:58.270]  Like a reality TV show.
[52:58.390 --> 53:05.550]  I was actually concerned that he was going to provoke security to the, to the extent that they'd throw him out and he'd turn that into a media event that he was ejected from the conference.
[53:05.550 --> 53:07.410]  He tried, he tried several times.
[53:07.410 --> 53:10.050]  And it's a credit to our security team that they didn't buy into it.
[53:12.830 --> 53:13.330]  Oh.
[53:23.810 --> 53:24.730]  All right.
[53:24.730 --> 53:34.790]  Uh-huh.
[53:35.010 --> 53:35.930]  Yeah.
[53:48.410 --> 53:51.210]  Uh-huh.
[53:51.370 --> 53:52.670]  Uh-huh.
[53:53.050 --> 53:53.390]  Uh-huh.
[53:53.390 --> 53:54.590]  Uh-huh.
[53:54.590 --> 53:55.690]  Uh-huh.
[53:55.890 --> 53:56.690]  Uh-huh.
[53:57.890 --> 53:58.250]  Yeah.
[53:58.310 --> 53:58.630]  That's important.
[53:58.770 --> 53:59.530]  That is important.
[53:59.690 --> 54:00.050]  Marco.
[54:00.150 --> 54:11.850]  I know that everyone's focusing on, you know, Lamo on this and everything, but I'd actually like to say that seeing everyone else talk, everyone else that was up there talking and going through their stories and everything and their thoughts, and I thought that was actually the best part of the panel.
[54:12.130 --> 54:12.290]  Uh-huh.
[54:12.810 --> 54:13.230]  All right.
[54:13.230 --> 54:14.930]  Well, it was certainly interesting.
[54:15.130 --> 54:18.930]  And I know, Phiber, you, Bernie, Kevin, you all told stories beforehand.
[54:18.930 --> 54:26.430]  In fact, we had a long conversation, maybe about 45 minutes, 50 minutes of just you guys telling what had happened to you in the past.
[54:26.530 --> 54:32.710]  And it made us all realize that people turning into informants is nothing new for the hacker community.
[54:32.850 --> 54:34.370]  This is something that happens all the time.
[54:34.370 --> 54:49.250]  In your particular case, you not only had somebody inform and get federal authorities on you, and later turn into the editor of a hacker magazine, namely Phrack, and not really get any condemnation from various people in the hacker community.
[54:49.470 --> 54:57.170]  But in addition to that, you had two people within the hacker group you were in, Masters of Deception, also turn into informants.
[54:57.270 --> 55:12.470]  So I think that illustrates how pervasive this is, how this is a problem we really have to deal with, people who feel the need to turn on their friends and get them into far more trouble than they certainly deserve to be in, just to save their own asses.
[55:12.590 --> 55:22.930]  I think that the details of the actual people having turned informant was really lost in the noise of the great hacker war that was created by the media.
[55:23.230 --> 55:25.250]  You're talking about LOD versus MOD.
[55:25.450 --> 55:28.450]  Yeah, the LOD versus MOD thing, which never really occurred.
[55:28.450 --> 55:31.510]  I mean, we're always friends on, you know, on both sides.
[55:32.190 --> 55:33.270]  Okay, Mike.
[55:33.410 --> 55:44.170]  Yeah, we're running out of time, but I just want to point out that there's a sort of difference between the Manning case and some of the other cases which were mentioned, which is that Lama himself was not under threat.
[55:44.490 --> 55:50.010]  He was asked several times specifically, did you do this because you were afraid you would get found out and thrown into jail?
[55:50.010 --> 55:50.750]  And he said no.
[55:51.430 --> 55:59.450]  So I think there's a difference between, you know, turning an informant to save yourself and turning an informant just because.
[55:59.830 --> 56:02.110]  And I think that's interesting.
[56:02.430 --> 56:03.030]  All right.
[56:03.170 --> 56:07.430]  We could talk about this for hours, and no doubt we will continue talking about it.
[56:07.570 --> 56:09.010]  The aftermath continues.
[56:09.290 --> 56:11.430]  We will have audio available online fairly soon.
[56:11.570 --> 56:13.090]  We'll have videos available shortly after that.
[56:13.930 --> 56:17.430]  But I really want to thank all you guys for your part in this conference.
[56:17.770 --> 56:18.750]  It did an amazing job.
[56:18.890 --> 56:20.670]  It was a pleasure working with each and every one of you.
[56:21.090 --> 56:23.010]  And I also want to thank the audience.
[56:23.450 --> 56:29.650]  Of course, the Hotel Pennsylvania, all the people walking by in the street who gave us curious glances.
[56:30.350 --> 56:31.090]  It was magic.
[56:31.190 --> 56:31.610]  It really was.
[56:31.710 --> 56:34.050]  For those of you in New York City for the first time, wow.
[56:34.690 --> 56:36.690]  It must have been quite a trip for you.
[56:36.830 --> 56:37.710]  Nick, any final words?
[56:37.990 --> 56:39.290]  Kenny, Jerry from the hotel.
[56:39.490 --> 56:40.090]  Thank you so much.
[56:40.150 --> 56:41.050]  You guys are great all weekend.
[56:41.410 --> 56:41.570]  Yeah.
[56:41.570 --> 56:42.690]  Save hotel pen.
[56:42.870 --> 56:43.190]  Yeah.
[56:43.330 --> 56:44.370]  Save hotel pen, please.
[56:44.610 --> 56:46.050]  We'll have more information on that.
[56:46.210 --> 56:50.470]  We can join the many, many people who signed the petition to keep the place from being destroyed.
[56:50.470 --> 56:52.990]  We'll have more information on that in future weeks.
[56:53.130 --> 56:55.690]  Write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:55.790 --> 56:56.730]  We'll see you next week.
[57:03.400 --> 57:04.360]  Hey, everyone.
[57:04.820 --> 57:07.860]  Listen up your attention, if you please.
[57:08.140 --> 57:10.020]  We want to give you a warning.
[57:10.180 --> 57:14.940]  Cause I found out this morning about a dangerous, insidious computer virus.
[57:14.940 --> 57:19.700]  If you should get any mail with a subject stinky cheese.
[57:20.000 --> 57:22.940]  Better not for taking the chances under no circumstances.
[57:22.940 --> 57:26.060]  Should you open it or else it will.
[57:26.860 --> 57:29.940]  Translate your documents into Swahili.
[57:30.210 --> 57:32.120]  Make your TV record chilly.
[57:32.440 --> 57:35.240]  Nutrient pests and give your laundry statically.
[57:37.600 --> 57:38.440]  Look out!
[57:38.620 --> 57:40.700]  It's gonna make your computer screen freeze.
[57:40.960 --> 57:41.400]  Look out!
[57:41.500 --> 57:43.240]  Erase the Easter eggs off your DVDs.
[57:43.880 --> 57:44.340]  Look out!
[57:44.420 --> 57:46.460]  Erase your hard drive and your backups too.
[57:46.700 --> 57:49.640]  And the hard drive of anyone related to you.
[57:51.360 --> 57:52.400]  Virus alert!
[57:52.400 --> 57:55.640]  Cheat immediately before someone gets hurt.
[57:56.240 --> 57:59.120]  Forward this message unto everybody.
[58:02.180 --> 58:07.160]  Soon, very soon, it will make all the pain peel off your walls.
[58:07.700 --> 58:09.400]  It'll make your keyboard all sticky.
[58:09.400 --> 58:10.980]  Give your poodle a hickey.
[58:10.980 --> 58:14.160]  And invest your cash in stock in Euro Disney.
[58:14.160 --> 58:16.800]  Then it will tie up your phone.
[58:16.940 --> 58:18.820]  Making crank long distance calls.
[58:19.540 --> 58:21.180]  It'll set your clock back an hour.
[58:21.240 --> 58:22.580]  And start clogging the shower.
[58:22.780 --> 58:24.080]  So just trash it now.
[58:24.280 --> 58:25.820]  Or else it will...
[58:26.560 --> 58:29.480]  Decide to give you a permanent wedgie.
[58:29.620 --> 58:31.710]  Legally change your name to wedgie.
[58:31.880 --> 58:35.020]  Even mess up the pH balance in your pool.
[58:37.240 --> 58:37.920]  Look out!
[58:38.000 --> 58:40.080]  It's gonna melt your face right off your skull.
[58:40.360 --> 58:40.840]  Look out!
[58:40.980 --> 58:42.780]  And make your iPod only plagiar total.
[58:42.780 --> 58:43.780]  Look out!
[58:43.920 --> 58:46.020]  And tell you knock-knock jokes while you're trying to sleep.
[58:46.260 --> 58:46.700]  Look out!
[58:46.840 --> 58:48.880]  And make you physically attracted to sheep.
[58:49.200 --> 58:49.620]  Look out!
[58:49.700 --> 58:51.940]  Steal your identity and your credit card.
[58:52.140 --> 58:52.580]  Look out!
[58:52.700 --> 58:54.860]  Buy you a warehouse full of pink leotard.
[58:55.080 --> 58:55.520]  Look out!
[58:55.620 --> 58:57.700]  Then cause a major rift in time and space.
[58:57.740 --> 59:00.880]  And leave a bunch of tweaky wrappers all over the place.
[59:01.160 --> 59:02.780]  Let's ride in some...
[59:02.780 --> 59:04.260]  Virus alert!
[59:04.460 --> 59:07.540]  Cheat immediately before someone gets hurt.
[59:08.500 --> 59:11.000]  Forward this message unto everybody.
[59:19.320 --> 59:22.780]  Warn all your friends, send this to everybody.
[59:23.280 --> 59:26.620]  Tell everyone, you know, tell everybody now.
[59:27.960 --> 59:34.000]  If you get infected, you'll wish you had never been born.
[59:34.000 --> 59:40.080]  So before it emails your grandmother all of your porn.
[59:40.520 --> 59:43.460]  Turn off your computer and make sure it powers down.
[59:43.680 --> 59:46.400]  Drop it in a 43-foot hole in the ground.
[59:46.700 --> 59:49.340]  Bury it completely, rocks and boulders should be fine.
[59:49.600 --> 59:52.960]  Then burn all the clothes you may have worn any time you were online.
[59:55.810 --> 59:57.140]  VIRUS ALERT!
[59:57.240 --> 59:57.560]  VIRUS ALERT!
[59:57.560 --> 01:00:00.520]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:01.040 --> 01:00:05.940]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:06.200 --> 01:00:09.300]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:11.500]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:11.660 --> 01:00:12.880]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:13.000]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:14.740]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:16.280]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:16.400]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:17.400]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:17.440]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:17.440 --> 01:00:17.900]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:17.900 --> 01:00:18.180]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:18.620 --> 01:00:19.640]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:19.640 --> 01:00:19.900]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:19.900 --> 01:00:20.080]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:20.080 --> 01:00:20.320]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:20.920 --> 01:00:21.760]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:21.860 --> 01:00:22.800]  VIRUS ALERT!
[01:00:23.500 --> 01:00:24.980]  Ha, ha, ha, ha.
[01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:26.320]  WBAI.
[01:00:26.500 --> 01:00:26.900]  Yeah.
[01:00:27.340 --> 01:00:28.100]  Wow, man.
[01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:33.100]  They must have had two, three, four hundred people in here for that show.
[01:00:33.820 --> 01:00:34.520]  I couldn't.
[01:00:34.600 --> 01:00:36.920]  I lost count after 27.
[01:00:38.120 --> 01:00:39.020]  All right.
[01:00:39.160 --> 01:00:42.980]  You know, it's 8 o'clock here at WBAI New York 99.5 FM.