[00:00.400 --> 00:02.120]  W-B-A-I in New York.
[00:02.500 --> 00:03.960]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[00:03.980 --> 00:05.720]  Actually, no, the time is 6.59.
[00:05.900 --> 00:07.020]  Do we have time to play one more thing?
[00:07.300 --> 00:08.360]  I think we do.
[00:08.640 --> 00:10.860]  Okay, let's play this.
[00:11.940 --> 00:13.040]  Oh, we can't just play it.
[00:13.080 --> 00:16.060]  We have to click it, move it, and then play it.
[00:16.240 --> 00:16.560]  Right?
[00:17.960 --> 00:18.300]  No.
[00:18.480 --> 00:18.680]  Okay.
[00:20.020 --> 00:21.580]  Oh, we have to hit the play button.
[00:21.660 --> 00:21.980]  I'm sorry.
[00:23.160 --> 00:24.780]  Got questions about your computer?
[00:25.080 --> 00:25.680]  Mm-hmm.
[00:25.980 --> 00:27.580]  Want to know about the latest electronics?
[00:27.900 --> 00:28.260]  Yeah.
[00:28.580 --> 00:30.500]  Are you confused by high-definition TV?
[00:30.860 --> 00:31.300]  A little.
[00:31.460 --> 00:34.520]  Well, tune into W-B-A-I every Wednesday at 8 p.m.
[00:34.600 --> 00:36.300]  for The Personal Computer Show.
[00:36.520 --> 00:36.760]  Yeah?
[00:37.000 --> 00:41.420]  Yeah, that's every Wednesday on W-B-A-I 99.5 FM.
[00:41.660 --> 00:41.920]  Oh.
[00:42.180 --> 00:43.300]  So why don't you tell a friend?
[00:43.500 --> 00:43.920]  Oh, okay.
[00:44.200 --> 00:45.040]  And tell your boss?
[00:45.260 --> 00:45.540]  Well.
[00:45.680 --> 00:50.620]  Hey, call your mom and tell them about The Personal Computer Show every Wednesday at 8 p.m.
[00:50.700 --> 00:51.960]  on W-B-A-I.
[00:51.980 --> 00:54.140]  99.5 FM.
[00:54.380 --> 00:55.160]  Oh, okay.
[00:56.580 --> 00:58.720]  I've got questions about my computer.
[00:59.340 --> 01:01.080]  And you've got questions about your computer?
[01:01.500 --> 01:04.540]  Not my, um, coffee over in my keyboard.
[01:04.840 --> 01:05.740]  Do you think that's a problem?
[01:06.560 --> 01:07.040]  Mm-hmm.
[01:07.080 --> 01:07.820]  No, not for me.
[01:08.540 --> 01:09.000]  Mm-hmm.
[01:09.220 --> 01:10.920]  Well, it doesn't mean we're working right, do you mean?
[01:11.260 --> 01:13.220]  Uh, I'd buy a new one.
[01:13.400 --> 01:14.360]  You know what I mean?
[01:14.560 --> 01:14.920]  Okay.
[01:15.240 --> 01:16.640]  Like, you've really got to be there.
[01:16.800 --> 01:17.660]  It's like the best.
[01:17.660 --> 01:19.220]  It's The Personal Computer Show.
[01:22.710 --> 01:24.300]  And this is not The Personal Computer Show.
[01:24.500 --> 01:28.580]  This is Off the Hook at W-B-A-I New York.
[01:29.120 --> 01:31.040]  On W-B-A-I New York at 7 o'clock.
[01:31.780 --> 01:32.180]  Yeah.
[01:34.000 --> 01:35.440]  Where the machines aren't working today.
[01:35.600 --> 01:37.940]  Okay, I've pressed both buttons and nothing is working.
[01:38.060 --> 01:38.440]  Hang on.
[01:38.660 --> 01:39.380]  Try it one more time.
[01:39.680 --> 01:40.560]  It's 7 o'clock.
[01:40.640 --> 01:41.820]  You're listening to W-B-A-I New York.
[01:41.940 --> 01:42.820]  Time for Off the Hook.
[01:48.050 --> 01:50.070]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:50.310 --> 01:52.570]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:53.490 --> 01:55.570]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:56.110 --> 01:58.110]  Now I can't make a call.
[01:58.750 --> 02:00.930]  We couldn't get much worse.
[02:03.710 --> 02:06.370]  Bum-B-A-I New York for the best expect the worst.
[02:06.870 --> 02:08.870]  I hope that's understood.
[02:09.090 --> 02:09.710]  Bum-B-A-I New York.
[03:36.610 --> 03:38.390]  And given to everybody, the program is off the hook.
[03:38.450 --> 03:41.210]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Bernie S.
[03:41.290 --> 03:41.650]  in Philadelphia.
[03:42.110 --> 03:43.250]  Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[03:43.890 --> 03:44.070]  Okay.
[03:44.490 --> 03:45.010]  Mike.
[03:45.330 --> 03:45.530]  Hi.
[03:46.230 --> 03:46.710]  Gus.
[03:46.990 --> 03:47.290]  Hi.
[03:47.690 --> 03:48.130]  Dotret.
[03:48.450 --> 03:48.630]  Hello.
[03:49.790 --> 03:50.450]  Rob T.
[03:50.550 --> 03:51.010]  Firefly.
[03:52.130 --> 03:52.650]  Jim.
[03:53.250 --> 03:53.510]  Hello.
[03:53.850 --> 03:54.670]  And Voltaire.
[03:54.950 --> 03:55.230]  Howdy.
[03:55.710 --> 03:59.670]  Well, here we all are again on this Wednesday evening.
[04:00.390 --> 04:04.630]  And we have all kinds of updates for people on things that have been happening in the world of technology.
[04:04.710 --> 04:08.110]  and scandals and various things like that throughout the world.
[04:08.270 --> 04:14.650]  We're taking your phone calls and having all kinds of other fun antics throughout the night.
[04:15.610 --> 04:24.290]  But the thing that I think we need to focus on right away is this contest we were alerted to last week, right after the show.
[04:25.890 --> 04:29.490]  I don't know how to even start with this, but let's give it a shot.
[04:30.090 --> 04:34.690]  It's called the Hack is Whack video contest.
[04:34.710 --> 04:37.430]  to raise cybercrime awareness.
[04:38.170 --> 04:43.590]  And it's run by, well, no surprise, run by the folks over at Norton.
[04:44.290 --> 04:47.170]  And it's also run by our good friend Snoop Dogg.
[04:49.050 --> 04:53.490]  Now, I say our good friend Snoop Dogg because usually, you know, we're on the same page.
[04:53.550 --> 04:54.850]  We see eye to eye here and everything.
[04:55.050 --> 04:58.370]  And I'm sure there's just a misunderstanding of some sort, which hopefully we can clear up.
[04:58.370 --> 05:05.050]  But let's, um, let's, let's, let's read one of the, um, one of the stories about this and we can sort of, uh, take it from there.
[05:05.290 --> 05:12.170]  Uh, think you can bust out some silly fresh rhymes on the subjects of hacking, identity theft, and computer viruses?
[05:12.170 --> 05:25.190]  In a somewhat untraditional partnership, Snoop Dogg and Semantics Norton want you to show off your lyrical skills on the subject of cybercrime and enter the Hack is Whack cybercrime rap contest.
[05:25.450 --> 05:37.150]  Uh, the contest, which runs through September 30th, uh, asks participants to create and upload a two-minute rap video at www.hackiswhack.com.
[05:37.150 --> 05:40.550]  That's spelled H-A-C-K-I-S-W-A-C-K.
[05:41.550 --> 05:48.930]  Snoop is going, uh, to make the initial call for entries through his Facebook account, uh, his Twitter account, and his YouTube page.
[05:49.290 --> 06:05.250]  Um, if you have the skills and bust out the fattest rap, you'll receive, remember, we didn't write this, uh, you'll receive round-trip airfare for two to Los Angeles, unless you're unfortunate enough to already be in Los Angeles, along with, uh, two days and two nights hotel stay to meet with,
[06:05.370 --> 06:07.770]  uh, Snoop's management and learn more about his business.
[06:08.110 --> 06:11.610]  Not sure which, which business exactly, but, uh, one of them.
[06:11.810 --> 06:21.990]  Uh, you'll also get two tickets to a Snoop Dogg concert and a new laptop pimped out with Norton Internet Security 2011, and absolutely no pirated software, presumably.
[06:22.510 --> 06:33.970]  Uh, the winner will be announced on October 20th and will be selected based on overall creativity, productivity, rapping, and performing skills, and delivery of a compelling anti-cybercrime message.
[06:34.670 --> 06:39.930]  Could the, um, SEO rapper maybe make a career change over to the cybercrime rapper?
[06:40.090 --> 06:45.170]  He does have some mad skills and can rap about technology-related subjects, according to this, uh, blogger here.
[06:45.170 --> 06:48.730]  I'm a big fan of his work, and I'm hoping he enters the Hack is Whack contest.
[06:49.310 --> 06:50.250]  Yeah, whatever.
[06:50.450 --> 06:56.290]  If you're on Twitter, use the hashtag pound Snoop Norton to find and mark tweets about the contest.
[06:57.830 --> 06:58.430]  All right.
[06:58.790 --> 06:59.790]  Well, go ahead.
[07:00.070 --> 07:02.230]  With the SEO rapper, you know they're not talking about Snoop Dogg, right?
[07:02.310 --> 07:02.790]  Because there's a...
[07:02.790 --> 07:03.270]  Oh, I know that.
[07:03.390 --> 07:04.370]  Yeah, I mean, he's...
[07:04.370 --> 07:05.430]  Who is the SEO rapper?
[07:05.550 --> 07:07.450]  All I remember is he wasn't awesome.
[07:07.950 --> 07:08.790]  He wasn't awesome?
[07:08.810 --> 07:09.790]  He wasn't awesome, no.
[07:09.910 --> 07:10.130]  I don't know.
[07:10.150 --> 07:12.330]  I just remember a bad taste left in my mouth.
[07:12.610 --> 07:12.910]  Uh-huh.
[07:13.110 --> 07:13.450]  All right.
[07:13.510 --> 07:17.570]  Well, I'm sure some kind of war has just been declared with that statement, but...
[07:18.070 --> 07:20.150]  Dude, SEO, SEO can bring it, frankly.
[07:20.350 --> 07:20.990]  SEO can bring it.
[07:20.990 --> 07:25.870]  SEO will bring it, and we're the ones that have to sign for it because he's going to bring it here.
[07:25.870 --> 07:27.050]  I don't know.
[07:27.770 --> 07:28.870]  Voltaire, what are your thoughts on this?
[07:29.030 --> 07:34.270]  I think it's safe to say that Snoop Dogg is now a semantics female dog.
[07:35.590 --> 07:35.990]  Okay.
[07:35.990 --> 07:40.810]  I'm sure you wanted to say that in a different way, and I'm sure that's something that Snoop will be bringing on as well.
[07:41.590 --> 07:42.170]  You know...
[07:42.170 --> 07:43.950]  Okay, how can we sit here?
[07:44.250 --> 07:46.790]  Let's take this from the mainstream point of view.
[07:46.930 --> 07:53.790]  How can we sit here and say that cybercrime is anything even related to being cool?
[07:53.990 --> 07:57.710]  I mean, obviously, cybercrime, anything that's crime has to be bad, right?
[07:57.910 --> 08:01.210]  So are we defending cybercrime by saying this is wrong?
[08:01.350 --> 08:02.630]  Who wants to tackle this, Rob?
[08:03.770 --> 08:04.910]  Sorry, your mic doesn't work.
[08:04.930 --> 08:05.310]  Hold on.
[08:05.790 --> 08:06.070]  Okay.
[08:06.370 --> 08:07.630]  No, it's not working at all.
[08:08.210 --> 08:08.810]  Try that one, yeah.
[08:08.910 --> 08:09.350]  What over here?
[08:09.610 --> 08:21.910]  I just think it's curious that Snoop Dogg is now declaring what is and what isn't cybercrime, seeing as how most of his other songs are about how various crimes that he's in favor of and even brags about committing.
[08:22.350 --> 08:22.870]  Such as?
[08:24.150 --> 08:26.450]  I probably shouldn't name them on the radio.
[08:26.690 --> 08:27.750]  Let's transfer you over to this mic now.
[08:27.790 --> 08:28.390]  Try that one.
[08:28.710 --> 08:29.430]  Oh, that's good.
[08:29.510 --> 08:30.250]  Okay, I have your own mic.
[08:30.250 --> 08:32.930]  All right, now you can list his crimes with that microphone.
[08:32.930 --> 08:33.370]  You're safe.
[08:34.270 --> 08:37.610]  I don't even know if I should list them because I don't know who's listening.
[08:37.610 --> 08:38.490]  I'll make it easy for you.
[08:38.490 --> 08:38.710]  Okay.
[08:38.710 --> 08:40.870]  And I'll pick a crime that I don't think is really a crime.
[08:41.090 --> 08:42.250]  And that is...
[08:43.110 --> 08:43.510]  Regicide.
[08:44.170 --> 08:47.210]  I'm talking about consuming cannabis, all right?
[08:47.510 --> 08:48.350]  Wait, Snoop does that?
[08:48.850 --> 08:52.150]  Legalization of marijuana is an important issue, I think.
[08:53.470 --> 09:00.350]  And he's been known to engage in that activity, which I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with, but it is illegal.
[09:00.610 --> 09:01.650]  Oh, wait, that's news to me.
[09:01.730 --> 09:02.970]  I'm going to have to throw away my records now.
[09:03.010 --> 09:03.590]  Well, there you go.
[09:03.750 --> 09:11.930]  But piracy, cybercrime, can we stand up and say that that is right under any circumstance?
[09:12.230 --> 09:13.690]  I'm just waiting for somebody to tell me.
[09:13.790 --> 09:15.570]  We're not talking about cybercrime here.
[09:15.570 --> 09:16.130]  What are we talking about?
[09:16.230 --> 09:17.770]  We're talking about cyber justice.
[09:17.990 --> 09:24.150]  I mean, when we talk about hacking, and this is something I think we've been sort of dancing around on the show for months now, we've sort of like, what is hacking?
[09:24.370 --> 09:25.570]  Why are we talking about this?
[09:25.650 --> 09:26.630]  We're dancing around what is hacking?
[09:26.630 --> 09:27.130]  We're dancing.
[09:27.350 --> 09:28.290]  Well, you may be dancing.
[09:28.630 --> 09:36.270]  You may be dancing, but... No, I mean, we've been sort of alluding to, you know, sort of a meta dialogue about what is a hacker.
[09:36.390 --> 09:38.290]  And I think we haven't really tackled that head on recently.
[09:38.530 --> 09:40.430]  I mean, certainly as long as I've been on the show, which is not that long.
[09:40.650 --> 09:55.610]  But I mean, that's the problem is we have public media, which insists on calling hacking bad, whereas in the Silicon Valley and the tech industry in general, hacking is also just sort of understood as building things and opening up things to see how they tick and things like that.
[09:55.610 --> 09:59.510]  So we once again are running headlong into somebody who disagrees with us on what this word means.
[09:59.670 --> 10:00.370]  Well, now, here's the thing.
[10:00.490 --> 10:04.430]  This article that I read, which is not necessarily what Snoop and Norton are talking about.
[10:04.810 --> 10:06.530]  I can't believe I'm using those words in the same sentence.
[10:07.290 --> 10:11.090]  But they refer to hacking, identity theft, and computer viruses.
[10:11.270 --> 10:14.010]  Now, I don't think anybody is into spreading computer viruses.
[10:14.230 --> 10:19.270]  We all are curious how they work and interested in how to write one, perhaps, but not unleashing them.
[10:19.710 --> 10:25.630]  Identity theft, fascinated by how that could work, how we can protect ourselves, not so interested in actually stealing somebody's identity.
[10:25.810 --> 10:29.590]  Creating a new identity is always cool, as long as you don't use it for fraudulent purposes.
[10:29.970 --> 10:33.710]  But then the word hacking, to say that hacking is equivalent to all that.
[10:34.070 --> 10:34.850]  Hacking is healthy.
[10:34.950 --> 10:35.490]  Hacking is good.
[10:35.610 --> 10:39.930]  Hacking is curiosity, exploration, spreading of information, all that kind of thing that we've been talking about for years.
[10:40.850 --> 10:42.830]  So it's ignorant to put that in the same sentence.
[10:42.950 --> 10:46.730]  Now, that could be Mike Lennon's fault, the guy who wrote that article for Security Week.
[10:48.050 --> 10:55.430]  Or I'm going to look on the website and see if there are words to that effect that Snoop has signed on to and that Norton subscribes to.
[10:55.630 --> 11:04.310]  I mean, clearly, the guy who's writing this and the whole take is that the fact if you're talking about silly, fresh rhymes, I mean, the guy's got some sort of linguistic problem to begin with.
[11:04.390 --> 11:06.870]  I mean, like, who says that anymore at all?
[11:06.990 --> 11:07.590]  Oh, lots of people.
[11:07.690 --> 11:08.170]  Lots of people.
[11:08.270 --> 11:08.990]  Lots of people say that.
[11:09.230 --> 11:09.610]  White people.
[11:09.930 --> 11:11.890]  I just want to know, do you have any sample raps?
[11:11.990 --> 11:15.990]  Because this is, like, a lot of publicity for Norton without any raps.
[11:15.990 --> 11:17.370]  Where are we going to get sample raps?
[11:17.550 --> 11:18.630]  I mean, people could send us.
[11:18.970 --> 11:19.350]  From the Internet.
[11:19.610 --> 11:20.970]  People can send us sample raps.
[11:21.170 --> 11:21.350]  Please.
[11:21.590 --> 11:23.810]  Well, Bernie, what do you know about how this contest works?
[11:24.130 --> 11:36.590]  Well, I was reading the terms and conditions, and like most of these types of contests, it looks like that all submissions become the property of Semantic Corporation, which owns the Norton name.
[11:38.150 --> 11:47.810]  So, you know, I was torn around with some of the people on the show with collaborating on putting an entry into this contest.
[11:47.810 --> 12:01.810]  Unfortunately, if we had, if we would have any chance of winning, it would have to be, the rap would have to be totally against hacking in any way, which would be against our entire beings.
[12:01.810 --> 12:03.750]  So we couldn't possibly win.
[12:03.890 --> 12:12.590]  And if we did enter something, we wouldn't be able to play it on the radio without violating some copyright that Semantic would have for then owning the submission.
[12:12.810 --> 12:17.870]  And then the rap could be about us doing that, because we'd be committing a cybercrime by doing it.
[12:18.070 --> 12:19.110]  I'm at the site.
[12:19.290 --> 12:20.450]  That would be kind of cool, wouldn't it?
[12:20.570 --> 12:21.510]  Yeah, that would be really meta, actually.
[12:21.510 --> 12:23.130]  Sort of a self-referential rap.
[12:23.130 --> 12:27.190]  Like, hey, yo, we're breaking Semantic's copyright.
[12:27.450 --> 12:29.110]  I think we've got our idea right there.
[12:29.710 --> 12:31.890]  Here's what the site says.
[12:32.030 --> 12:33.210]  It says, hack is whack.
[12:33.670 --> 12:36.350]  Upload your anti-cybercrime rap video, two minute max.
[12:36.470 --> 12:38.770]  What kind of decent rap is two minutes long?
[12:39.290 --> 12:41.530]  Winner judged on originality, creativity, and message.
[12:41.690 --> 12:48.610]  Grand prize, two tickets to Snoop concert, meet his management, his entire management, slash agent, and then Toshiba laptops.
[12:48.610 --> 12:51.270]  So I guess you meet his Toshiba laptop, according to that.
[12:52.010 --> 12:55.030]  And, uh, yeah, so have fun for shizzles, what it says there.
[12:55.410 --> 12:57.450]  Uh, let's, uh, let's click on the video.
[12:57.750 --> 12:58.810]  Hopefully the video is clean.
[12:58.930 --> 12:59.690]  We'll find out soon enough.
[12:59.910 --> 13:01.430]  And, uh, hopefully we can play it, too.
[13:02.310 --> 13:05.670]  Um, okay, there's, uh, is this safe to play?
[13:05.770 --> 13:06.590]  It's Norton, right?
[13:07.330 --> 13:09.990]  Okay, I've got, I've got the, the button here, in case it's not.
[13:11.750 --> 13:12.890]  Okay, we're going to YouTube.
[13:13.350 --> 13:18.270]  I said that you can buy for the computer as far as, like, pieces of software that you can put in the computer.
[13:18.490 --> 13:24.830]  And then just this, being more aware and just bringing the attention level up, so people can know that these problems are actually happening out there.
[13:24.950 --> 13:26.930]  Because a lot of people don't even realize that this is happening.
[13:27.150 --> 13:29.010]  So we're just trying to make awareness up there.
[13:29.110 --> 13:31.530]  It's a company called Norton and Big Snoop Girl.
[13:31.690 --> 13:34.590]  We come together and, you know, join forces to fight with something.
[13:34.890 --> 13:36.450]  Not like a Snoop security team.
[13:36.590 --> 13:37.050]  Come on, man.
[13:37.130 --> 13:39.250]  You know when my team come after you, we're going to get you.
[13:40.510 --> 13:41.630]  I'll tell you about this contest.
[13:41.890 --> 13:43.210]  People, what's the contest?
[13:43.470 --> 13:51.030]  The contest is, you know, we're trying to get people to raise awareness up about making a rap song about cybercrime, you know what I'm saying?
[13:51.130 --> 13:57.030]  And they turn the song in, and if the song is good enough, I might throw a verse or a hook or something on it, you know what I'm saying?
[13:57.310 --> 13:58.010]  Oh, get out of here.
[13:58.310 --> 13:58.650]  Oh, yeah.
[14:00.450 --> 14:01.350]  Don't get in the contest.
[14:01.550 --> 14:01.790]  Look at that.
[14:03.390 --> 14:05.870]  Let me get in the contest and put my rap down one time.
[14:05.870 --> 14:06.990]  Let my dream come true.
[14:07.150 --> 14:07.670]  Come on now.
[14:07.770 --> 14:09.130]  You said you was going to do that for your birthday.
[14:09.250 --> 14:10.410]  I'm just saying.
[14:10.630 --> 14:11.070]  Come on.
[14:11.470 --> 14:11.590]  Ooh.
[14:12.530 --> 14:13.930]  No, not right now at the Dome.
[14:14.150 --> 14:14.370]  No, no.
[14:14.510 --> 14:14.930]  Oh, okay.
[14:15.050 --> 14:16.530]  Don't go bad on them right now.
[14:16.970 --> 14:17.830]  Don't go bad on them right now.
[14:17.850 --> 14:18.670]  This is for television.
[14:18.910 --> 14:19.070]  Yeah.
[14:19.330 --> 14:21.170]  So if they win the contest, what do they win?
[14:21.750 --> 14:41.970]  They win tickets to one of my shows and get to meet my management team, you know what I'm saying, as far as, like, to see exactly what it takes to become Snoop Dogg, to get an insight on my team and see what it takes to really move and move and to put them in the circle with my people and to rub shoulders with some successful people and hopefully they'll rub off on them.
[14:42.690 --> 14:44.690]  And what would you say is the secret to your success?
[14:44.830 --> 14:45.770]  What's the secret to longevity?
[14:46.670 --> 14:47.030]  Fun.
[14:47.510 --> 14:49.070]  The secret to longevity is fun.
[14:49.230 --> 14:50.750]  Everything that I do has to be fun.
[14:50.750 --> 14:51.850]  I love having fun.
[14:53.270 --> 14:56.670]  I don't do it with grudges, with grief, with heartache.
[14:56.690 --> 14:57.630]  I do it to have fun.
[14:57.750 --> 14:58.590]  I love making music.
[14:58.730 --> 15:00.190]  I love endorsing.
[15:00.270 --> 15:00.970]  I love owning.
[15:01.090 --> 15:02.250]  I love just being a leader.
[15:02.390 --> 15:03.470]  I just love doing what I do.
[15:04.210 --> 15:05.710]  I think people are cut off.
[15:05.810 --> 15:07.850]  I love doing what I do or something like that.
[15:08.110 --> 15:09.430]  Sounds nice and innocent.
[15:09.550 --> 15:10.130]  What do you think?
[15:10.890 --> 15:18.490]  Some people out there might hate me for saying this, but from what it sounds like, it sounds like he knows nothing about cybercrime and hacking.
[15:19.110 --> 15:22.550]  He kept on saying, to raise awareness.
[15:23.310 --> 15:25.130]  He didn't have anything else to say.
[15:25.170 --> 15:26.330]  But he also didn't use the H word.
[15:26.490 --> 15:27.830]  He didn't say hacking, per se.
[15:28.110 --> 15:29.710]  That's Norton throwing that in.
[15:29.830 --> 15:30.930]  Maybe they haven't told him.
[15:31.050 --> 15:33.110]  Maybe he doesn't know it's about hacking.
[15:33.230 --> 15:35.410]  Maybe they just said, oh yeah, it's going to be a rap contest.
[15:35.450 --> 15:36.150]  You should endorse this.
[15:36.190 --> 15:36.950]  He's like, all right.
[15:37.110 --> 15:38.930]  And then they didn't tell him it was about hacking.
[15:39.090 --> 15:50.950]  On the surface, it can sound nice enough that we want to protect people against having their identities stolen about losing their bank accounts and passwords and things like that.
[15:51.070 --> 15:52.990]  That all seems fine and good.
[15:53.230 --> 16:03.650]  But when you start saying ignorant things like anti-hacking, which I didn't hear him say, to his credit, then obviously it takes a whole different turn.
[16:03.970 --> 16:06.370]  And then people start judging hackers in a bad way.
[16:06.530 --> 16:09.630]  And if you know too much about computers, then all of a sudden you're the suspect.
[16:09.630 --> 16:11.390]  You're the one that's up to something.
[16:11.610 --> 16:14.430]  And that's where we've been for the last however many years.
[16:14.430 --> 16:15.690]  We've been trying to fight that.
[16:15.690 --> 16:17.350]  So that's our concern here.
[16:17.410 --> 16:20.990]  It's not so much fighting the bad guys because we get the bad guys all the time.
[16:20.990 --> 16:23.470]  We get all kinds of phishing attempts.
[16:23.690 --> 16:32.310]  Every day I see email trying to get information from me about bank accounts or credit card numbers or anything.
[16:32.570 --> 16:34.250]  Some of them are really kind of sloppy too.
[16:34.250 --> 16:43.990]  Maybe what we really need is a mashup of Snoop saying that stuff or a Snoop rap and then I Go Chop You Dollar, the Nigerian song glorifying 419 scams.
[16:45.310 --> 16:45.510]  Yeah.
[16:45.730 --> 16:46.970]  You know, you should just enter that.
[16:47.190 --> 16:48.690]  I think that'll be enough.
[16:48.970 --> 16:49.010]  Rob?
[16:49.630 --> 16:50.030]  This...
[16:52.310 --> 16:53.110]  My microphones.
[16:53.570 --> 16:53.790]  All right.
[16:53.830 --> 16:54.190]  There we go.
[16:54.570 --> 16:55.610]  This segment is a fair.
[16:55.750 --> 16:58.030]  We've been gone on for like 10 minutes and still no rapping.
[16:58.490 --> 16:59.450]  Well, go ahead.
[17:00.030 --> 17:00.610]  You're on.
[17:00.690 --> 17:01.930]  You have the internet right there.
[17:01.930 --> 17:03.190]  What does this have to do with the internet?
[17:03.410 --> 17:05.090]  You want me to just connect to what?
[17:05.130 --> 17:06.150]  A YouTube video or something?
[17:06.670 --> 17:07.010]  Something.
[17:07.150 --> 17:07.230]  I don't know.
[17:07.230 --> 17:08.770]  Well, there's nothing on this site as far as I know.
[17:08.830 --> 17:10.250]  Yeah, it's just guys talking.
[17:10.570 --> 17:10.850]  Yeah.
[17:11.030 --> 17:11.630]  This whole thing.
[17:11.730 --> 17:12.630]  I don't buy it.
[17:12.750 --> 17:12.970]  Voltaire.
[17:13.250 --> 17:18.930]  If we do do a rap, can we feature the line of Snoop Dogg snorting norting?
[17:19.330 --> 17:24.090]  I don't think anybody anywhere is served by us attempting to do a rap.
[17:24.210 --> 17:25.210]  I'm just saying...
[17:25.210 --> 17:28.870]  Listen, I'm pretty sure that Rob Vincent has already won this competition.
[17:29.530 --> 17:29.630]  What?
[17:29.830 --> 17:30.110]  He's already...
[17:30.110 --> 17:30.270]  Rob T.
[17:30.390 --> 17:31.590]  Firefly has already won this competition.
[17:31.590 --> 17:32.510]  He's already won this competition.
[17:32.510 --> 17:32.670]  He's already won it.
[17:32.670 --> 17:33.770]  Does he have something to present here?
[17:33.870 --> 17:34.730]  No, but he's already won it.
[17:34.810 --> 17:35.390]  You see, he will.
[17:36.250 --> 17:38.190]  I'm just throwing his hat in the ring for him here.
[17:38.350 --> 17:38.610]  Okay.
[17:38.610 --> 17:39.250]  His hat's on the light.
[17:39.370 --> 17:40.430]  Yeah, I see his hat over there.
[17:40.450 --> 17:43.110]  I mean, either that or honestly, we're on the same channel as Chuck D.
[17:43.330 --> 17:44.130]  Where's Chuck D?
[17:44.290 --> 17:44.690]  I know.
[17:45.130 --> 17:46.770]  Yeah, Chuck D needs to say something about this.
[17:46.810 --> 17:49.570]  He's on our airwaves Monday night from 9 to 11.
[17:49.930 --> 17:50.990]  Awesome, awesome program.
[17:52.170 --> 17:54.830]  And yeah, let's have some dialogue here.
[17:54.830 --> 17:55.290]  Let's go talk with Chuck D.
[17:55.310 --> 18:03.130]  Chuck D, if you're listening, we want to talk to you about this because we know that you and we know that Snoop also cares about making sure that his community is protected from cybercrime of various sorts.
[18:03.250 --> 18:05.010]  But like, this is not the way to do it.
[18:05.050 --> 18:07.970]  Well, there's a way to do it intelligently and there's a way to do it...
[18:07.970 --> 18:11.350]  The way to do it is not to demonize the people who know more about computers.
[18:11.490 --> 18:13.170]  It's to know more about computers yourself.
[18:13.350 --> 18:15.590]  And that's what we need to do is get that message out.
[18:15.650 --> 18:19.210]  We don't want to do this tabloid style and I don't think anyone is served by that.
[18:19.330 --> 18:21.670]  It's just hysteria and a lot of ignorance spread around.
[18:21.910 --> 18:24.830]  And hopefully that's something that we don't do as well.
[18:24.970 --> 18:26.510]  Hopefully we're able to educate people.
[18:26.590 --> 18:26.710]  Rob?
[18:26.710 --> 18:28.430]  There is something that I'd like to see.
[18:28.590 --> 18:33.190]  And I know there are people listening to the show with more talent than us as far as rapping goes.
[18:33.830 --> 18:41.630]  And, you know, I would like to see some people format some sort of entries to this contest but also post them somewhere outside the contest.
[18:41.790 --> 18:43.330]  Tweet them, blog them, YouTube them, whatever.
[18:43.970 --> 18:49.810]  And, you know, maybe in your rap tell something a little closer to the truth about what hackers and what hacking is.
[18:50.050 --> 18:51.130]  Yeah, something about hacking.
[18:51.230 --> 18:51.610]  That'd be cool.
[18:51.610 --> 18:56.210]  We'll play it on our radio waves and, you know, we won't take ownership of it so you can still play it yourself.
[18:56.710 --> 18:58.170]  I would like very much to see that.
[18:58.350 --> 19:01.370]  And when you say format, you mean create something, not format a hard drive, right?
[19:01.610 --> 19:02.670]  Because that's the thing.
[19:02.790 --> 19:06.810]  You say anything these days as a hacker and people are going to assume you just want to destroy things.
[19:06.930 --> 19:07.570]  How many times...
[19:07.570 --> 19:14.130]  I mean, I'm sure it's happened to everybody in this room where you show knowledge and people are right away suspicious that you're going to do something evil.
[19:14.870 --> 19:15.190]  That's right.
[19:15.290 --> 19:15.650]  You're raising your hand.
[19:15.650 --> 19:19.730]  This is unfortunate, but because of things like that, I usually avoided that.
[19:20.070 --> 19:20.370]  Avoided what?
[19:20.630 --> 19:21.210]  Speaking to people?
[19:21.490 --> 19:21.710]  No.
[19:22.630 --> 19:23.590]  People who...
[19:24.310 --> 19:28.110]  Segregating different people I know into different camps and who I'm going to tell what.
[19:28.230 --> 19:39.050]  You know, for instance, lots of, you know, very computer illiterate people will know nothing that I even know how to do anything beyond surf the web on IE or Firefox.
[19:39.610 --> 19:45.830]  You know, I remember one time having a friend of mine explain to me what Firefox was and I was just biting my tongue.
[19:46.790 --> 19:49.550]  Yeah, it's fun to see those things happen.
[19:50.210 --> 20:03.310]  I think part of what we have to do, though, is define our terms, decide what is right, what is wrong, what is something that we support, what's something that clearly is sleazy or bad.
[20:03.710 --> 20:05.490]  Now, let's look at file sharing.
[20:05.670 --> 20:07.530]  File sharing is something that's controversial.
[20:07.530 --> 20:10.330]  It's been going on for ages all around the world.
[20:10.470 --> 20:20.610]  And it's in the news because this week, this past week, police in 14 different European countries raided all kinds of computers.
[20:21.790 --> 20:24.370]  A dozen, more than a dozen European nations.
[20:25.410 --> 20:29.850]  Police have acted, launched a crackdown on a supposed online file sharing network.
[20:30.350 --> 20:31.970]  This is according to Al Jazeera.
[20:32.110 --> 20:36.930]  Swedish officials said that raids have been undertaken in 14 countries on Tuesday.
[20:38.230 --> 20:40.310]  Does anyone know if that's this Tuesday or last Tuesday?
[20:40.370 --> 20:41.450]  Yes, this past Tuesday.
[20:41.550 --> 20:42.130]  Okay, so it's yesterday.
[20:42.650 --> 20:42.890]  All right.
[20:43.170 --> 20:47.250]  A major operation that followed two years of investigation by Belgian police.
[20:47.470 --> 20:54.290]  The majority of the police action occurred in Sweden, according to a file sharing news website called Torrent Freak.
[20:54.430 --> 21:00.430]  It's really cool to be reading, to be here on WBAI, reading Al Jazeera, quoting Torrent Freak.
[21:00.430 --> 21:02.850]  I just think that is the ultimate in cool.
[21:03.430 --> 21:09.410]  A network named The Scene was a key target, according to a statement from Swedish prosecutors.
[21:09.710 --> 21:16.850]  The Scene was said to have offered films before they were available on DVD, in some cases, before they were even finished.
[21:18.070 --> 21:19.350]  Paul, maybe not that.
[21:19.450 --> 21:26.310]  Paul Pinter, or Pinter, I'm not sure how you pronounce that, a Swedish police officer from the Minor Crimes Unit, at least they got that right.
[21:26.310 --> 21:33.150]  It's a minor crime, but it's from the Minor Crimes Unit, said that police targeted 48 sites across Europe that were part of the network.
[21:33.910 --> 21:37.810]  Police raided seven locations in Sweden, including one in a suburb of Stockholm.
[21:38.650 --> 21:46.970]  And, incidentally, that one contains servers used by file sharing websites, Pirate Babe, and also our good friends over at WikiLeaks, the whistleblowing website.
[21:47.210 --> 21:54.410]  But, the service provider said that officers only ask questions about two suspect IP addresses.
[21:54.410 --> 21:56.190]  No computers or other goods have been seized.
[21:56.730 --> 22:02.330]  And, a Swedish prosecutor was very clear in saying that WikiLeaks was not involved in the current action.
[22:02.550 --> 22:05.010]  He said, we have plans for them down the road, but not right now.
[22:05.470 --> 22:06.370]  Well, he didn't say...
[22:06.370 --> 22:07.190]  It was in his eyes.
[22:07.450 --> 22:11.610]  He didn't say that in words, but we all know that coming for WikiLeaks at some point, they're going to do it.
[22:13.450 --> 22:19.530]  And, locations in Malmo, Umea University, and Eskistuna were also raided in Sweden.
[22:20.050 --> 22:27.130]  Reports state that four people are reportedly being questioned on alleged breach of copyright laws with servers and computers having been taken by authorities.
[22:27.370 --> 22:32.470]  Raids were also said to have been carried out in the Netherlands, Norway, Germany, the UK, the Czech Republic, and Hungary.
[22:33.210 --> 22:34.290]  So, what's this all about?
[22:34.410 --> 22:41.030]  This is file sharing networks, downloading movies, downloading music, all kinds of evil things like that.
[22:41.090 --> 22:42.350]  Is this the kind of thing we should be rapping about?
[22:43.030 --> 22:44.310]  I think someone already did that.
[22:44.390 --> 22:45.670]  It was called Don't Copy That Floppy.
[22:45.890 --> 22:47.370]  We played that a couple of weeks ago.
[22:47.550 --> 22:48.510]  Don't Copy That Floppy.
[22:48.510 --> 22:53.270]  Nobody has floppies anymore, but what is it that you're not supposed to copy DVDs?
[22:53.270 --> 22:55.330]  Nowadays, I guess, don't share as that wears.
[22:55.710 --> 22:55.950]  Uh-huh.
[22:57.670 --> 22:59.450]  Yeah, you know, I don't know.
[22:59.530 --> 23:00.470]  I don't know how these things develop.
[23:00.650 --> 23:06.450]  It doesn't do much to have phraseology like that that doesn't follow any kind of convention.
[23:06.690 --> 23:08.730]  I'm telling you, I'm telling you, he's going to win this competition.
[23:09.190 --> 23:10.030]  Yes, Voltaire.
[23:10.110 --> 23:30.710]  I think it's important that we use terms like file sharing and not terms like power sheet because people like the Pirate Bay use it in a postmodern like ironic sense to make fun of how people are calling file sharing making it equivalent to like ragers and pillagers on the high seas.
[23:30.790 --> 23:35.950]  Well, it's interesting because this story that was on Al Jazeera, did they even say the word piracy anywhere?
[23:36.070 --> 23:41.150]  They kept referring to it as file sharing groups and that's accurate because that is what it is.
[23:41.250 --> 23:44.430]  But if it is just file sharing groups, where is the illegality?
[23:44.850 --> 23:45.450]  Oh, where's the harm?
[23:45.850 --> 23:46.430]  Where's the harm?
[23:46.490 --> 23:47.250]  That's why I'm asking you.
[23:47.630 --> 23:48.330]  There is no harm.
[23:48.430 --> 23:49.490]  I think it's a good thing.
[23:49.750 --> 23:53.250]  Do you think it's a good thing to download DVDs before they're released?
[23:53.410 --> 23:53.690]  I do all the time.
[23:53.710 --> 23:54.550]  Before they're released.
[23:54.750 --> 23:55.590]  I'm not afraid to admit it.
[23:55.730 --> 23:56.390]  All right, hold on a second.
[23:56.550 --> 23:56.730]  Hold on.
[23:56.910 --> 23:58.370]  Let's turn on the spotlight here.
[23:58.950 --> 24:00.050]  All right, isolate you.
[24:00.490 --> 24:07.190]  Now, you're saying that you download DVDs before they're released to the public and who do you pay for this?
[24:07.190 --> 24:08.470]  If I find...
[24:08.470 --> 24:11.630]  I don't find them until they're released to the public.
[24:13.330 --> 24:16.030]  Like, I don't know how old they are, a couple months, a couple years old.
[24:16.230 --> 24:17.250]  How do you justify this?
[24:17.790 --> 24:19.110]  How do I not justify it?
[24:19.310 --> 24:19.970]  No, no, no.
[24:20.050 --> 24:21.110]  I asked you the question.
[24:21.570 --> 24:26.030]  How do you justify downloading something that costs something to somebody?
[24:26.270 --> 24:27.750]  Obviously, it costs money to put together.
[24:28.230 --> 24:32.090]  And just getting... I mean, are you buying something else that offsets that somehow?
[24:32.090 --> 24:36.530]  Are you supporting them by buying shirts or concert tickets or whatever it is?
[24:36.690 --> 24:36.810]  Yeah, concert tickets.
[24:37.090 --> 24:38.710]  How do you buy concert tickets to a movie?
[24:39.290 --> 24:41.550]  If it's an artist I like, I'll...
[24:41.550 --> 24:41.850]  Uh-huh.
[24:42.530 --> 24:45.830]  But if it's a movie, I don't know.
[24:45.990 --> 24:50.350]  If they had, like, a flatter me button on their website, then I'd probably pay for that.
[24:50.450 --> 24:51.050]  But they don't.
[24:51.330 --> 24:53.970]  So, again, they're the producers.
[24:54.130 --> 24:56.830]  They should make a method that I can sponsor them for.
[24:56.970 --> 24:58.190]  It's not my duty.
[24:58.310 --> 24:58.310]  Well, okay.
[24:58.310 --> 25:00.550]  You're the hypothetical... I'm going to say hypothetical.
[25:00.670 --> 25:00.810]  Yeah.
[25:01.050 --> 25:01.850]  I might not exist.
[25:02.030 --> 25:09.010]  You're the hypothetical downloader here, the file sharer that seems to believe that this kind of thing is okay.
[25:09.010 --> 25:09.130]  Okay.
[25:09.530 --> 25:19.630]  What would you say to those in charge that basically feel that this is a threat to the entire future of any such enterprise?
[25:20.130 --> 25:25.930]  What suggestions do you have for them in order to save their asses so that they don't go bankrupt because everybody's taking everything for free?
[25:25.930 --> 25:29.250]  What can they do to improve their business model?
[25:30.250 --> 25:37.630]  For the producers, I think the industry itself is going to have a major shakeup just because there'll be...
[25:37.630 --> 25:41.610]  The margins won't necessarily be smaller, but they're just coming from different places.
[25:41.890 --> 25:42.370]  Uh-huh.
[25:42.370 --> 25:47.090]  There'll be a lot of job losses and a lot of job creations, but that won't mean that there'll be less artists getting paid.
[25:47.250 --> 25:48.630]  I think there'll be more artists getting paid.
[25:48.710 --> 25:51.930]  But getting paid out of what, though, if you're not buying anything from them?
[25:52.190 --> 25:54.970]  Things like Flatter thing, which is like a...
[25:54.970 --> 25:55.410]  What is Flatter?
[25:55.590 --> 25:58.690]  It's a micropayment system, actually, from the creators of the Pirate Bay.
[25:58.830 --> 25:59.030]  Uh-huh.
[25:59.290 --> 26:01.090]  F-L-A-T-T-R.
[26:01.490 --> 26:02.950]  I get the...
[26:02.950 --> 26:04.390]  Why does nobody spell anything right anymore?
[26:04.590 --> 26:05.790]  Flickr, they don't spell that right.
[26:06.230 --> 26:07.450]  You know, Flatter, they can't spell that.
[26:07.530 --> 26:08.170]  These are easy words.
[26:08.190 --> 26:10.430]  Because all the English word domain names are taken.
[26:10.430 --> 26:11.190]  Yeah, but you know what?
[26:11.490 --> 26:15.290]  Flickr, Flatter, whoever these people are, they probably have enough money to buy those domains many times over.
[26:15.410 --> 26:16.270]  So why don't they just do it?
[26:16.270 --> 26:16.810]  Not when they start.
[26:17.010 --> 26:17.650]  Not when they're little.
[26:17.890 --> 26:20.990]  Yeah, or when they're big, they can charge an infinite amount of money.
[26:21.170 --> 26:23.690]  Yeah, but if you go to Flickr.com, that's just a pet peeve of mine.
[26:23.910 --> 26:25.850]  It makes no reference to the other Flickr.
[26:26.050 --> 26:26.770]  And they really... Okay.
[26:27.250 --> 26:28.970]  Regardless, let's get back to the issue at hand.
[26:30.250 --> 26:32.270]  So, basically, this is...
[26:32.890 --> 26:35.230]  It's not clear to me what the solution is.
[26:35.370 --> 26:38.870]  And it seems easy to target people and say, look what you're doing.
[26:38.870 --> 26:39.870]  You're doing something evil.
[26:39.870 --> 26:43.270]  You're hurting this industry and these artists and things like that.
[26:43.430 --> 26:51.170]  So, without a clear-cut answer as to what they can be doing properly, it's going to be difficult to keep this thing from happening.
[26:51.210 --> 26:52.190]  There are lots of different possibilities.
[26:52.190 --> 27:10.530]  One proposal is to measure things like the amount of distribution songs get and have a levy, maybe 2% on electronic devices, MP3 players, whatever, and have that divided among artists based on how popular their things are.
[27:10.530 --> 27:12.070]  But what determines how popular it is?
[27:12.070 --> 27:14.870]  Well, how many people are sheeting their torrents or whatever.
[27:15.770 --> 27:15.990]  Okay.
[27:15.990 --> 27:29.890]  So, you're in favor of a free distribution system and ranking that and basically dividing it through the purchase of some other device that people need to get, maybe computers, maybe some electronic device, things like that.
[27:29.890 --> 27:35.870]  We already, actually, we already have that, or not, I don't think in the U.S., but I know a lot of countries, including Canada, have that.
[27:36.110 --> 27:43.050]  But the money doesn't go to the artists, it goes to ASCAP and other ASCAP-y, not-so-great organizations.
[27:43.050 --> 27:45.010]  See, the thing is, this has always been the case.
[27:45.150 --> 27:48.790]  Music and films and books have always meant to be shared.
[27:48.990 --> 27:52.090]  They've always been designed to be shared, one way or another.
[27:52.090 --> 27:58.330]  Of course, it's become so much easier now and so much more all-encompassing because you copy something, there's no generational loss.
[27:59.110 --> 28:01.230]  But the overall intent is the same.
[28:01.290 --> 28:03.210]  The overall intent, I think, is a fairly good thing.
[28:03.370 --> 28:06.750]  Sharing something that you like, it's something...
[28:06.750 --> 28:09.730]  I mean, if this was... if we could do this with food, imagine what would be possible.
[28:10.090 --> 28:14.810]  I'm sure people would say that's an evil thing, but in actuality, it's the sustenance of life.
[28:14.970 --> 28:19.930]  And art and entertainment, creativity, that's also the sustenance of life.
[28:20.050 --> 28:21.730]  And by spreading that, we're enriching ourselves.
[28:21.970 --> 28:31.290]  But we also need to think of the people that are creating these things and figure out ways that they benefit as well, especially if they are making something good.
[28:31.370 --> 28:31.570]  Dot-ret.
[28:31.570 --> 28:39.130]  Well, basically, what we're asking questions about is, like, how is this industry going to evolve in order to survive?
[28:39.330 --> 28:41.730]  Lots of industries are asking that same question.
[28:41.730 --> 28:47.430]  And I can't remember everything that he said, but George Lucas actually mentioned something about that.
[28:47.530 --> 28:59.770]  And one of the things that he said was that, you know, the age of having these super expensive movies perhaps is going to go away, that we need to work to make cheaper movies.
[28:59.770 --> 29:00.550]  Of course, he can say that.
[29:00.650 --> 29:02.050]  He's made his super expensive movies.
[29:02.150 --> 29:02.330]  Yeah, he has.
[29:02.370 --> 29:03.090]  And it's true.
[29:03.230 --> 29:06.330]  He's really, really, you know, he's known for some of the big expensive movies.
[29:06.370 --> 29:08.430]  And I don't think those are going anywhere because they still exist.
[29:08.690 --> 29:08.690]  But they're easy to share.
[29:08.810 --> 29:17.150]  And the problem is, if you're throwing, like, exorbitant amounts of cash at a movie, what's going to happen when people are very easily able to swap these things around?
[29:17.150 --> 29:29.930]  In my personal opinion, we need to have smaller studios that don't need to suck up all this money to pay for all these expenses they have and let some of this actual money go to the, you know, the actual artists.
[29:30.210 --> 29:32.990]  They don't need tens of millions of dollars in order to survive.
[29:32.990 --> 29:42.650]  Well, maybe some of the most popular artists and executives don't have to make that much money and ballplayers and all these people that make obscene amounts.
[29:42.910 --> 29:45.750]  And there's so many other people struggling that really don't make that much at all.
[29:45.790 --> 29:47.430]  And I think they're the ones that hurt more than anybody.
[29:47.470 --> 29:54.630]  Yeah, if you cut away the fat, you would see that even with reduced revenues, maybe the system could still work in a slightly more creative way.
[29:54.810 --> 29:55.070]  Rob?
[29:55.070 --> 30:03.170]  But one thing you're seeing a lot more of nowadays on the internet are self-funded sort of artist-run businesses where people are creating their own work.
[30:03.250 --> 30:03.950]  They're putting it out there.
[30:04.090 --> 30:05.870]  They're encouraging people to file share their stuff.
[30:06.210 --> 30:07.790]  A guy named Jonathan Colton is very popular.
[30:08.050 --> 30:11.290]  He puts out the vast majority of his stuff for free or for insanely cheap.
[30:11.550 --> 30:15.950]  And that gets people to go to his site and buy his albums and buy his merchandise and pay to go his shows.
[30:16.050 --> 30:16.910]  And he makes his living like that.
[30:16.990 --> 30:17.670]  He makes a very good living.
[30:18.410 --> 30:26.870]  And there are other groups like that, comedy groups, everything, that just have cut out the middlemen, cut out all the huge studios and huge record labels and stuff like that.
[30:26.990 --> 30:29.890]  And they're doing well just, you know, making less money.
[30:30.010 --> 30:31.750]  But since it's all going to them, they can live on it.
[30:31.890 --> 30:32.110]  Right.
[30:32.270 --> 30:33.250]  Specifically marketers.
[30:33.450 --> 30:35.330]  I mean, like, we don't need marketers anymore.
[30:35.330 --> 30:37.490]  We're going to pass to our friends the thing that we like.
[30:37.810 --> 30:41.690]  And so much of the budgets for these things go to the people who are going and pimping this stuff out.
[30:41.890 --> 30:42.870]  Those people can go away.
[30:42.950 --> 30:43.090]  Yeah.
[30:43.210 --> 30:44.590]  But the thing is, you have a glut.
[30:44.730 --> 30:46.650]  You have so much material now.
[30:47.450 --> 30:50.250]  It's the Twitterification of our culture.
[30:50.450 --> 30:52.290]  How do you find what's good?
[30:52.890 --> 30:54.470]  You do need some kind of marketing.
[30:54.490 --> 30:55.610]  You do need some kind of filter.
[30:55.970 --> 30:56.810]  Where does that come from?
[30:56.950 --> 30:57.710]  You know, doing...
[30:57.710 --> 31:00.030]  I don't know that we need the filter.
[31:00.170 --> 31:03.790]  I think what we need is social hubs, people that we know and trust to bring us stuff.
[31:03.830 --> 31:05.310]  And I think those people are emerging anyway.
[31:05.470 --> 31:08.930]  I mean, like, I'm reading io9, Annalee Newitz's blog about science fiction.
[31:09.090 --> 31:10.670]  And I will trust what they like.
[31:10.950 --> 31:13.570]  When they recommend a book, I go out and buy that book because I like it.
[31:13.630 --> 31:14.970]  You know, I watch some of the movies, they say.
[31:15.670 --> 31:18.190]  Rob routinely feeds me things that I want to do.
[31:18.190 --> 31:19.210]  And, you know, I mean, so it's...
[31:19.210 --> 31:23.050]  And as somebody promoting the media show, you know, my own show, it hasn't been easy.
[31:23.090 --> 31:27.010]  But at the same time, like, you begin to find the communities who are going to care about you.
[31:27.130 --> 31:28.110]  Like, you reach out to them.
[31:28.370 --> 31:29.410]  You do things for them.
[31:29.510 --> 31:30.510]  They do things for you back.
[31:30.610 --> 31:31.950]  And that's how you get to know each other, really.
[31:32.090 --> 31:33.910]  I mean, like, that is...
[31:33.910 --> 31:41.130]  You know, you don't end up with a huge box office blast that you do, that you would if you were, you know, Angelina Jolie working off of the studio system.
[31:41.330 --> 31:42.670]  But you can still...
[31:48.270 --> 31:58.350]  I would say, for 14 different law enforcement agencies to coordinate and do this requires a massive amount of time, money, and resources.
[31:58.770 --> 32:02.310]  And, you know, it just shows where these law enforcement agencies are...
[32:02.310 --> 32:05.530]  Where their efforts are focused, but their priorities are...
[32:05.530 --> 32:11.250]  Frankly, I think they could be much more effective if they all just started rapping about file sharing.
[32:11.390 --> 32:12.190]  Maybe that would work better.
[32:12.190 --> 32:13.350]  So, yeah, that's a good idea.
[32:13.430 --> 32:19.730]  Why don't we have the law enforcement people put out the raps and send them to us, and maybe if they're cool enough, the kids will actually listen.
[32:19.870 --> 32:22.250]  That's the worst idea we've ever come up with on this show.
[32:22.430 --> 32:22.990]  Thank you very much.
[32:23.150 --> 32:23.350]  Okay.
[32:23.450 --> 32:24.030]  Well, we try.
[32:24.290 --> 32:25.830]  I mean, yeah, we try, but...
[32:25.830 --> 32:31.770]  Now, if you have a rap you'd like to send us, our email address, OTH at 2600.com, we'd love to hear from you.
[32:31.830 --> 32:36.650]  Even if you just want to pen the words, maybe we can get one of our rappers to actually perform them.
[32:36.850 --> 32:38.010]  We do have a fleet of them.
[32:38.050 --> 32:39.450]  We have a massive stable full of rappers.
[32:39.450 --> 32:41.670]  Well, it's not a stable full, but it's a room full, at least.
[32:41.830 --> 32:43.530]  And, yeah, we have enough.
[32:43.670 --> 32:43.950]  Rob?
[32:44.270 --> 32:48.050]  And I'd encourage people doing this to post them online.
[32:48.050 --> 32:49.030]  Look into this contest.
[32:49.170 --> 32:51.810]  Find out what hashtags and things you're encouraged to use, and use those.
[32:54.090 --> 32:54.810]  Hackiswhack.com.
[32:55.630 --> 32:57.910]  We'd like to know your thoughts on that.
[32:58.050 --> 32:58.470]  Write to us.
[32:58.490 --> 32:59.890]  Let us know what you think.
[32:59.970 --> 33:00.550]  Voltaire, final word.
[33:00.750 --> 33:04.530]  Yeah, do the hashtag SnoopNorton, which is the official one.
[33:04.530 --> 33:09.390]  And then also add OTH or 2600 or something.
[33:09.990 --> 33:10.150]  Okay.
[33:10.190 --> 33:12.010]  We've got a bunch of listener mail.
[33:12.150 --> 33:13.170]  We want to take some phone calls.
[33:13.470 --> 33:16.490]  212-209-2900 in just a couple of minutes.
[33:17.250 --> 33:20.090]  Here's a letter from Frank Blues.
[33:20.370 --> 33:22.330]  As always, an excellent and informative show.
[33:22.430 --> 33:25.290]  Wanted to comment on two specific items that you talked about.
[33:25.390 --> 33:28.950]  The pain ray, which is also called the active denial system.
[33:29.190 --> 33:32.530]  I've been following the development of this system in the news for some time now.
[33:32.530 --> 33:34.670]  There are some major problems with this system.
[33:35.310 --> 33:42.450]  Not the least of which is that there have been no long-term studies of the effect of nanometer RF on human tissue.
[33:42.610 --> 33:46.690]  We're talking about the device that basically burns people if you stand in its path.
[33:46.810 --> 33:48.130]  Or gives the sensation of being burned.
[33:48.650 --> 33:50.670]  It's going to be used by police to move crowds.
[33:50.710 --> 33:52.970]  It's going to be used in prisons to break up fights.
[33:53.750 --> 33:56.790]  And I'm sure it'll be used in all sorts of other areas.
[33:56.790 --> 33:57.750]  And it's not very pleasant.
[33:58.590 --> 33:59.350]  Continuing with this letter.
[33:59.430 --> 34:02.250]  We don't know what this thing will do to people after repeated exposure.
[34:02.530 --> 34:07.430]  The rationale that those targeted by the device will simply, quote, move out of the way, unquote, is also concerning.
[34:07.690 --> 34:12.210]  How do those targeted by the device know which way to go to avoid the intense pain?
[34:12.730 --> 34:15.750]  The BBC has run several interesting stories on this device.
[34:15.890 --> 34:19.610]  The latest basically stating that the device was made available for field use in Afghanistan.
[34:20.350 --> 34:25.210]  But it sounds like the commanders that are actually in the field refused to use it and sent it back.
[34:25.610 --> 34:26.270]  Very interesting.
[34:26.790 --> 34:29.350]  Also, on the subject of voting machines.
[34:29.750 --> 34:37.030]  On last week's show, Emmanuel discussed a hypothetical system that is pretty close to the one we use here in Utah.
[34:37.230 --> 34:47.190]  In our state, we sign in with the election official, are then handed a smart card programmed with the specific ballot we are voting on, then take that card to a touchscreen device for voting.
[34:47.730 --> 34:52.910]  Overvoting is not permitted, as the system won't allow you to vote for more candidates than are allowed for a specific office.
[34:52.910 --> 34:56.590]  Write-in ballots are handled by tapping out the name of the individual on the screen.
[34:56.990 --> 34:59.970]  The machine has you review your choices before casting your ballot.
[35:00.130 --> 35:07.010]  Once your ballot is cast, a paper tape is printed with your votes, and this tape is visible through a window on the side of the machine.
[35:07.490 --> 35:13.670]  The machine pauses after each page of printing to allow you to verify that your vote is being cast, both electronically and on the paper tape.
[35:14.350 --> 35:16.210]  Well, you know, Frank Blues, thanks for writing.
[35:16.470 --> 35:18.210]  That system I would be happy with.
[35:18.310 --> 35:20.430]  That would be a great system if we had something like that in New York.
[35:20.430 --> 35:22.630]  What I've seen in New York so far is atrocious.
[35:22.950 --> 35:24.370]  It doesn't have anything like that.
[35:24.470 --> 35:27.990]  And that would be really cool to have that kind of secure, verifiable system.
[35:27.990 --> 35:28.310]  Mike?
[35:28.550 --> 35:30.730]  You're describing the world's most expensive pencil.
[35:30.950 --> 35:34.270]  And if we actually had it in New York, you'd find a way to complain about it as well.
[35:34.330 --> 35:37.890]  Oh, you know, I think you're blindly following with these reforms.
[35:38.390 --> 35:39.750]  I mean, I don't think it's...
[35:39.750 --> 35:40.650]  Any question is suspicious.
[35:40.970 --> 35:41.970]  Of course there are problems.
[35:42.290 --> 35:42.850]  You know what?
[35:42.850 --> 35:44.290]  I will make problems on Election Day.
[35:44.370 --> 35:48.630]  You'll see all the different things that can go wrong with a single piece of paper.
[35:48.630 --> 35:49.990]  Or just look at the videos.
[35:49.990 --> 35:50.970]  You can't make an X.
[35:51.030 --> 35:51.710]  You can't make a check.
[35:51.830 --> 35:54.070]  You can't press down with a pencil in the wrong place.
[35:54.330 --> 35:55.270]  All kinds of things will happen.
[35:55.390 --> 35:57.210]  Senior citizens will get overvoting errors.
[35:57.230 --> 35:58.390]  And they're not going to know what they mean.
[35:58.870 --> 36:01.050]  And all kinds of people are going to get very confused.
[36:01.190 --> 36:02.410]  It doesn't have to be complicated.
[36:02.590 --> 36:03.970]  Software can be written well.
[36:04.130 --> 36:06.750]  And that's all I'm asking for is for well-written software.
[36:06.990 --> 36:08.790]  I recognize it when it works.
[36:08.930 --> 36:11.610]  Like on the MetroCard machines, that's very well-written software.
[36:12.070 --> 36:13.830]  And I recognize it when it doesn't work.
[36:13.950 --> 36:16.550]  And what I've seen so far, this does not work well.
[36:16.550 --> 36:18.530]  What's in Utah sounds like it does work.
[36:18.610 --> 36:19.930]  And I don't know why we don't have a system like that.
[36:20.090 --> 36:20.470]  You know what they need?
[36:20.610 --> 36:20.930]  What's that?
[36:21.110 --> 36:21.870]  They need hackers.
[36:22.190 --> 36:22.850]  They need hackers.
[36:22.990 --> 36:23.230]  Thank you.
[36:23.290 --> 36:24.190]  That's exactly what they need.
[36:24.310 --> 36:26.190]  Because hackers can think creatively.
[36:26.190 --> 36:27.330]  They can make things break.
[36:27.430 --> 36:28.830]  And it's important to make things break.
[36:29.030 --> 36:30.890]  Because people are going to make things break.
[36:31.610 --> 36:33.370]  Everybody breaks something at some point.
[36:33.390 --> 36:35.050]  And you have to be somewhat creative.
[36:35.670 --> 36:38.850]  And not afraid to step outside the boundaries.
[36:39.090 --> 36:40.350]  And that's how you make good systems.
[36:40.470 --> 36:43.050]  That's how you create the open source operating system.
[36:43.090 --> 36:44.190]  Because you know what you're doing.
[36:47.330 --> 37:00.250]  Yeah, you know, like a lot of times with, say, other physical things that people are creating, especially talking about architecture, you know, you're going to have people, you know, going through various types of stress tests to see if these kinds of things are even going to work in whatever application you want to use it in.
[37:00.430 --> 37:10.050]  Yet, all of a sudden, when it comes to software, or it comes to something that the government wants to do institutionally wise, all of a sudden, they're like, no, no, no, no, no testing.
[37:10.330 --> 37:11.110]  That's bad.
[37:11.310 --> 37:14.170]  The less you know about it, the better off we all are.
[37:14.170 --> 37:15.110]  Yeah, pretty, pretty much.
[37:15.190 --> 37:19.230]  To the credit of the New York State Senate, ostensibly, they did go through some manner of testing.
[37:19.350 --> 37:20.410]  We just don't know what it is.
[37:20.890 --> 37:29.530]  Like, we don't know if it's addressed the things that we had come up at our conference that they talked about the Penn State group or the University of Pennsylvania group talked about.
[37:29.610 --> 37:30.830]  A rubber stamp doesn't count.
[37:30.950 --> 37:35.670]  Yeah, these have been, these issues have been raised repeatedly over the years, and they don't get addressed.
[37:36.030 --> 37:41.730]  They don't, they, I mean, they have these hearings, but they're, they're really nonsense, because they don't really listen to what people have to say.
[37:41.830 --> 37:43.450]  If they did, they wouldn't have a system like this.
[37:44.170 --> 37:45.130]  Let's read another letter.
[37:45.410 --> 37:47.290]  Again, our phone number, 212-209-2900.
[37:47.870 --> 37:52.910]  Dear Emanuel, the big problem with mechanical voting systems is that only a few people would be able to check them.
[37:52.990 --> 37:57.990]  The average person on the street will not be able to understand one of your mechanical voting machines or scanning systems.
[37:58.490 --> 38:02.390]  This is why we have a simple pen and paper voting system with manual counting.
[38:02.530 --> 38:04.690]  This is from our friend Cassandro in Germany.
[38:05.090 --> 38:10.110]  You fill out your ballot, fold it, and sometimes even put it into an envelope before putting it into the ballot box.
[38:10.270 --> 38:12.110]  The system might not be absolutely secure.
[38:12.230 --> 38:14.110]  However, everybody is easily able to check the system.
[38:14.230 --> 38:14.890]  It's also fast.
[38:15.010 --> 38:17.410]  Elections end on Sunday at 6 p.m.
[38:17.810 --> 38:20.350]  And next day in the morning, there's already the first official result.
[38:20.810 --> 38:25.810]  In the days after that, recounts will be done on request, and the result will be changed according to the results.
[38:26.250 --> 38:29.370]  One important thing is that the voter has no way to prove how he voted.
[38:29.370 --> 38:31.270]  Otherwise, he might be blackmailed.
[38:31.370 --> 38:37.610]  Even voting invalid, which is, strictly speaking, a criminal offense in Germany, must not be revealed.
[38:38.470 --> 38:44.250]  Invalid voting is legally seen as a way to obstruct the democratic process, which is a political expression by itself.
[38:44.310 --> 38:48.290]  Not quite sure how that works, but I'd like to know more about voting invalid.
[38:49.370 --> 38:50.250]  It's easy.
[38:50.250 --> 38:53.510]  You just make a big X somewhere other than where you're supposed to.
[38:53.670 --> 38:54.310]  And then what happens?
[38:54.510 --> 38:55.730]  They don't count the vote.
[38:55.930 --> 38:56.750]  And why is that illegal?
[38:57.390 --> 38:58.670]  I don't really know why.
[38:58.670 --> 38:59.270]  All right.
[38:59.690 --> 39:08.170]  In the GDR, the German Democratic Republic, it was the only way to politically express yourself, as there were only two bubbles on the ballot, basically yes and no.
[39:08.890 --> 39:13.230]  And as there were enforced secrecy, you were harassed for not voting publicly as well as for voting no.
[39:13.370 --> 39:15.790]  So, yeah, there's all kinds of things to worry about there.
[39:17.390 --> 39:18.570]  Here's one more letter.
[39:19.150 --> 39:22.130]  I listen with great interest to the September 2nd show about the voting machines.
[39:22.250 --> 39:25.570]  As you may or may not know, Australia has just had a federal election.
[39:25.690 --> 39:26.950]  And, yes, I've heard about this.
[39:27.390 --> 39:29.130]  It's done with a pencil and paper ballot.
[39:29.310 --> 39:32.710]  You basically turn up at the nearest voting center, which is usually a school.
[39:33.070 --> 39:38.210]  You line up for what could be a long time as Australia has compulsory voting, something we should try.
[39:38.830 --> 39:44.630]  The Australian Electoral Commission employee or volunteer asks your name and address and looks it up in a big book.
[39:45.230 --> 39:47.810]  You get asked if you have voted before in the election.
[39:48.090 --> 39:49.250]  And here's the important part.
[39:49.350 --> 39:50.390]  You get handed two papers.
[39:50.490 --> 39:52.910]  One is small, like a single-leaf flyer, colored green.
[39:52.910 --> 39:55.230]  The other is large, one foot by three feet.
[39:55.910 --> 39:57.710]  And that's a big white piece of paper.
[39:57.710 --> 40:00.330]  Then you walk over to the booth and vote.
[40:00.610 --> 40:06.610]  The green ballot, you have to number one through to whatever, depending on the candidates running in the seat, usually five or six.
[40:07.590 --> 40:12.070]  This numbering is very important due to dodgy deals done by political parties with their voting preferences.
[40:12.070 --> 40:16.210]  So you put the person you like the least last as the higher...
[40:16.210 --> 40:17.550]  I'm already being confused by this.
[40:18.090 --> 40:27.030]  Basically, the order that you vote for people matters because I think if your person gets in, then the person you voted for a second gets in.
[40:27.130 --> 40:28.050]  There's a word for this, isn't there?
[40:28.130 --> 40:39.910]  The way it works, and there's a number of different systems with the one they have in Australia, is the person with the least first preference votes, their first preference votes go away.
[40:39.910 --> 40:49.190]  And the people who voted for them first, their second preference votes go to the next candidate and so on until there's only two candidates left and one of them has more votes than the other.
[40:49.370 --> 40:56.950]  Yeah, it sounds complex, but I think once you get used to doing it in a particular way, then it's not hard at all.
[40:57.130 --> 41:00.190]  And we have that... the BII elections are somewhat like that.
[41:00.450 --> 41:04.290]  Yeah, the official term for it is single transferable vote, so you can pick it up if you want.
[41:04.290 --> 41:05.950]  Yeah, it would be nice to try that here.
[41:06.290 --> 41:09.430]  I think it would be a good way to actually have representation.
[41:09.430 --> 41:10.850]  Or at least proportionate representation.
[41:11.370 --> 41:11.470]  Yeah.
[41:12.030 --> 41:13.630]  All right, do we have phone calls?
[41:14.010 --> 41:16.010]  Let's take some phone calls.
[41:16.110 --> 41:18.870]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[41:19.590 --> 41:21.050]  And let's try over here.
[41:21.210 --> 41:21.570]  Good evening.
[41:21.710 --> 41:22.630]  You're on Off the Hook.
[41:23.790 --> 41:25.690]  Yeah, I have something to contribute.
[41:25.910 --> 41:26.230]  Go ahead.
[41:27.070 --> 41:39.370]  All right, so basically, on the hacking portion, I kind of find it ironic that Symantec is the one putting this out when it's all known throughout the industry that they pretty much create the virus.
[41:39.370 --> 41:50.030]  Put them out, and then people basically have to buy and purchase their software or the newest virus definition for software to eliminate these.
[41:50.390 --> 41:53.130]  And, you know, it happens, like, semi-annually.
[41:53.330 --> 41:54.250]  It's pretty consistent.
[41:54.350 --> 42:00.410]  Well, what you say is something I've heard said many times, but it's kind of like a rumor.
[42:00.410 --> 42:02.790]  Have you ever had any actual proof of this?
[42:03.790 --> 42:07.990]  Well, I actually work at a large law firm in a network operations center.
[42:08.110 --> 42:09.930]  We just had a major virus hit us.
[42:10.090 --> 42:12.830]  And what it is was it was just a variant of the other one.
[42:13.090 --> 42:16.970]  And so, essentially, we had a contract with Trend Micro.
[42:17.310 --> 42:21.830]  But since that virus hadn't officially been out yet, they weren't held viable.
[42:21.830 --> 42:28.030]  But, I mean, I'm not going to get into the semantics of it, but it's pretty well known.
[42:28.750 --> 42:43.510]  I've even heard of, you know, Windows putting out small portions, very tiny of their kernel, of XP, so that, you know, their computers would get infected instantaneously to make them make the jump to Windows 7.
[42:43.830 --> 42:48.710]  And, you know, Windows 7 doesn't have those same vulnerabilities, and I find that another coincidence, too.
[42:49.230 --> 42:51.890]  Well, it's definitely something open to speculation.
[42:52.150 --> 42:53.150]  Thanks for the info.
[42:53.630 --> 42:53.970]  No problem.
[42:54.670 --> 42:56.210]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[42:56.650 --> 42:57.330]  And good evening.
[42:57.490 --> 42:58.170]  You're on Off the Hook.
[42:58.710 --> 43:03.210]  Yes, we noticed that there are a lot of getting off the subject.
[43:03.430 --> 43:04.370]  There are a lot of...
[43:04.370 --> 43:05.410]  Are you getting off the subject, Rebel?
[43:06.330 --> 43:10.110]  Yeah, well, there are a lot of patients that are being removed from places like hotels.
[43:10.490 --> 43:11.750]  Boy, that is a sad statement.
[43:12.030 --> 43:13.290]  Well, we'll just have to let that...
[43:13.290 --> 43:15.910]  I don't think he ever got on the subject to get off of it.
[43:16.030 --> 43:16.810]  Oh, he's off it now.
[43:16.990 --> 43:17.270]  Good evening.
[43:17.390 --> 43:18.050]  You're on Off the Hook.
[43:19.730 --> 43:20.510]  Speak up, please.
[43:20.690 --> 43:21.250]  Go ahead.
[43:21.350 --> 43:21.870]  You're on Off the Hook.
[43:22.910 --> 43:24.330]  Yeah, I find it rather interesting.
[43:24.510 --> 43:33.390]  Maybe it's a bit of a theme that much I've seen a bunch of former hackers, or crackers more accurately, have, you know, not been legit, viewed legit.
[43:33.550 --> 43:44.910]  It's sort of a parallel to go with Snoop, who's like a former gangster or whatever, still partially gangster, and have him be the poster child of their interpretation of hacking and stuff.
[43:44.910 --> 43:49.210]  So, it's almost something interesting in the middle of all that.
[43:49.590 --> 43:49.810]  Uh-huh.
[43:50.250 --> 43:50.590]  Okay.
[43:50.870 --> 43:51.610]  It's a nice parallel.
[43:51.730 --> 43:56.890]  It's a nice parallel, except I cannot stand the word cracker in any use, and I don't think it's a valid use.
[43:56.990 --> 43:58.130]  Well, I was thinking about that.
[43:58.250 --> 44:01.230]  I mean, like, that's one of the things that Snoop Dogg couldn't say cracker because...
[44:01.230 --> 44:02.770]  Well, okay, yeah, I was...
[44:02.770 --> 44:06.950]  That would get really confusing, and it might start riots or something.
[44:07.030 --> 44:09.710]  Yeah, but I hope he doesn't for different reasons.
[44:09.890 --> 44:27.410]  I hope he doesn't because it's just, it's such a nonsensical word that has been created by people that want to define themselves as hackers and define all these other people that they don't like as something else, even though in many cases they're not doing anything illegal or immoral.
[44:28.050 --> 44:31.790]  All right, 212-209-2900, good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
[44:33.110 --> 44:33.570]  Yeah, hey.
[44:33.750 --> 44:34.410]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[44:35.170 --> 44:44.630]  I wanted to comment on, you had asked earlier why people download pirated movies and share files.
[44:44.910 --> 44:45.370]  Okay.
[44:45.870 --> 44:51.950]  And I wanted to give my input on why I do it, and it's mainly because it's easy.
[44:52.510 --> 45:02.350]  And if the motion picture comes to me, it's more easier for me to buy their movies or whatever, I'd probably be more inclined to do that, and it was extremely affordable.
[45:02.750 --> 45:03.590]  Let me ask you this.
[45:04.390 --> 45:13.410]  Netflix has this service where you can stream a lot of movies, a lot of TV shows, and also have DVDs delivered to you.
[45:13.450 --> 45:16.250]  I'm not going to give the price, but it is pretty low.
[45:16.410 --> 45:18.850]  It's about the cost of a single, it's less than the cost of a single DVD.
[45:19.470 --> 45:22.630]  Is there a reason why you think a system like that wouldn't work?
[45:22.770 --> 45:24.450]  I tried Netflix a couple times.
[45:24.450 --> 45:35.290]  I didn't like what I was getting as far as quality, because even though I'm on broadband speed, for whatever reason, I just am getting a stream that I need to experience.
[45:35.610 --> 45:37.050]  Do you pay your phone bill every month?
[45:37.510 --> 45:38.070]  I do.
[45:38.350 --> 45:38.610]  Okay.
[45:38.710 --> 45:41.290]  And you're happy with the quality that you're getting on your phone?
[45:41.490 --> 45:50.590]  I just think that's an interesting parallel, because you sound like you're in outer space right now, and you're telling me about the quality of a film on Netflix.
[45:50.910 --> 45:51.570]  I don't know.
[45:51.710 --> 45:55.270]  It's just, obviously, it's an issue.
[45:55.850 --> 46:03.170]  But I think that's something that we need to sort of measure and weigh the benefits and pros and cons and things like that.
[46:03.330 --> 46:04.270]  Any final word from you?
[46:05.250 --> 46:08.290]  One other thing on when you were talking about the voting machines.
[46:08.850 --> 46:09.210]  Okay.
[46:09.250 --> 46:23.810]  What it reminds me of the story with NASA, and how they spend millions and millions of dollars on inventing a pen that you can write upside down, up in space, and, you know, the Russians decided to do the same thing, but the Russians decided they'd use a pencil instead.
[46:24.210 --> 46:26.190]  Yeah, I've heard that story quite a few times.
[46:26.850 --> 46:27.470]  I know.
[46:27.590 --> 46:27.930]  I'm just...
[46:27.930 --> 46:28.530]  That's what I'm...
[46:28.530 --> 46:29.530]  That's what it reminded me of.
[46:29.710 --> 46:30.170]  All right.
[46:30.210 --> 46:31.390]  Well, let's leave NASA alone.
[46:31.390 --> 46:32.730]  They have enough problems as it is.
[46:32.950 --> 46:33.530]  Go ahead, Mike.
[46:33.530 --> 46:39.830]  There are actually apparently problems with using pencils in space because the shavings get all over the place and get into the equipment.
[46:39.850 --> 46:41.590]  Well, no one's had to sharpen a pencil in outer space.
[46:41.670 --> 46:42.290]  That's just dumb.
[46:42.850 --> 46:46.530]  No, not the shavings when you sharpen it, just like the excess graphite.
[46:47.210 --> 46:47.790]  Oh, I see.
[46:47.950 --> 46:48.090]  Yeah.
[46:48.490 --> 46:48.650]  Walter.
[46:48.790 --> 46:49.370]  I'm glad to call.
[46:49.410 --> 46:51.250]  I brought up Netflix because even though I...
[46:51.250 --> 46:52.510]  I brought up Netflix, but go ahead.
[46:52.850 --> 47:02.750]  Even though I do download films illegally, I also get a lot of films from Netflix just because it's easier than...
[47:02.750 --> 47:05.610]  And it has a much nicer interface than using BitTorin.
[47:05.970 --> 47:10.210]  So that's where that movie do get, I guess, that I am financing films.
[47:10.410 --> 47:10.770]  Yeah.
[47:10.770 --> 47:11.590]  I mean, that seems like a...
[47:11.590 --> 47:15.410]  I mean, that would satisfy you if something was cheap enough and easy enough to use.
[47:15.410 --> 47:17.450]  Yeah, but a lot of films aren't on Netflix.
[47:17.650 --> 47:19.930]  So those are the ones I tend to...
[47:19.930 --> 47:20.110]  BitTorin.
[47:20.690 --> 47:22.050]  I like watching...
[47:22.050 --> 47:26.390]  If I'm learning a foreign language, I'll watch them with a dub into that language.
[47:26.570 --> 47:28.310]  So I've been downloading a lot of Italian films.
[47:28.410 --> 47:29.330]  They don't have them on Netflix.
[47:29.610 --> 47:38.930]  You know, that's a very good point, though, is, you know, with capitalism, it's supposed to be that, you know, you have competition.
[47:38.930 --> 47:46.850]  And if one service isn't providing good enough service, you're going to see your customers leave and go to someone else who's providing a better service.
[47:47.070 --> 47:50.930]  And what our listener was just talking about was that exact same thing.
[47:51.130 --> 47:54.310]  He didn't like what he was getting from Netflix, so he went somewhere else.
[47:54.390 --> 47:59.650]  Only in this case, instead of trying to make a better product, they're just stomping their feet.
[47:59.830 --> 48:04.610]  Yeah, and making it illegal to try and look for anything else and try and change the marketplace.
[48:04.610 --> 48:10.430]  Because it is a changing marketplace on all levels, and you have to deal with that, or you're just going to become extinct.
[48:10.630 --> 48:10.770]  Right.
[48:10.910 --> 48:16.170]  I mean, that's the real problem here, is that there wasn't fair competition at any point in this.
[48:16.230 --> 48:17.610]  Like, we were all sort of hopeful, I think.
[48:17.630 --> 48:30.310]  I'm kind of bummed by this whole thing, because, you know, back in 2000 or whatever, we were talking about, you know, how we had these sort of grand ideals, I think, that sharing was going to become legal, and somehow tip jar services and things like that would become the norm.
[48:30.350 --> 48:36.170]  But the thing is, now we've sort of got these halfway solutions that a lot of the major media companies have bought into.
[48:36.430 --> 48:43.610]  And so that's sort of becoming this hybrid norm, and it didn't sort of do away with a lot of the bad things about old traditional media.
[48:43.810 --> 48:49.170]  It hasn't done away with, you know, monopoly, and it hasn't done away with sort of, you know, gender imbalances in the media.
[48:49.170 --> 48:50.930]  I still see the same people in charge.
[48:50.950 --> 48:52.390]  That has not changed.
[48:52.510 --> 48:56.210]  Yeah, and that's, that I think is sort of the sad thing about all this.
[48:56.390 --> 48:57.850]  212-209-2900.
[48:57.930 --> 48:58.810]  Let's take another phone call.
[48:59.190 --> 48:59.870]  And good evening.
[49:00.010 --> 49:00.610]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:01.110 --> 49:01.770]  Oh, dear.
[49:01.770 --> 49:03.150]  You weren't patient.
[49:03.290 --> 49:03.770]  That's the problem.
[49:03.870 --> 49:04.310]  Let's go over here.
[49:04.690 --> 49:05.050]  Good evening.
[49:05.250 --> 49:05.890]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:07.310 --> 49:07.890]  Go ahead.
[49:08.090 --> 49:08.430]  Speak up.
[49:09.570 --> 49:09.950]  How are you doing?
[49:10.190 --> 49:10.330]  Hi.
[49:11.090 --> 49:18.450]  I actually was kind of curious about, you know, the Julian Assange stuff and the fact that it hasn't been mentioned on the show.
[49:18.650 --> 49:20.430]  Which Julian Assange stuff is this?
[49:20.450 --> 49:21.590]  There's always something new.
[49:21.890 --> 49:25.990]  The accusations that are, you know, currently being thrown.
[49:25.990 --> 49:39.370]  Well, you're talking about the accusations in Sweden, the bizarre incident where they issued an arrest warrant and then retracted it less than 24 hours later, finding that there's still no basis for it.
[49:40.050 --> 49:44.850]  How do you comment on something that there is no information on?
[49:44.850 --> 50:00.230]  I wanted to, you know, I guess what I was trying to ask is, do you think there's any sort of correlation between that and the recent raid on Pirate Bay due to the fact that they were hosting some of the WikiLeaks content?
[50:02.470 --> 50:05.990]  I love a good conspiracy, but I kind of doubt that there's a relationship.
[50:06.130 --> 50:06.250]  Mike?
[50:06.370 --> 50:07.870]  I was going to say the answer to your question is no.
[50:07.890 --> 50:08.990]  I don't think there's any connection.
[50:09.310 --> 50:09.970]  You're more certain.
[50:10.070 --> 50:12.370]  I'm always open to the possibility of conspiracies, but I don't...
[50:12.370 --> 50:15.150]  I could be wrong, but no, I don't think there's any connection.
[50:15.350 --> 50:22.850]  And the raid also was not on the Pirate Bay, but on other file shares who have the same internet service provider, which is not that interesting.
[50:23.090 --> 50:25.170]  I mean, you might as well say because it was in Sweden that it might have been related.
[50:25.390 --> 50:25.550]  Gus?
[50:25.610 --> 50:28.730]  I mean, we did talk about this a little bit before the show as we were walking in here.
[50:28.730 --> 50:32.110]  And the sort of general consensus is things are still sort of flying around.
[50:32.350 --> 50:34.810]  I don't think it's necessarily news yet until we know a little bit more.
[50:34.930 --> 50:39.470]  There was some sort of talk about mutiny within WikiLeaks, and there's the allegations.
[50:40.090 --> 50:46.050]  My understanding is that the allegations of rape and molestation have not just been dismissed, they've been returned, but who knows why?
[50:46.190 --> 50:46.930]  Like, we're still not...
[50:46.930 --> 50:49.530]  The picture is very unclear as to why that's all happening.
[50:49.530 --> 50:51.810]  So I think we're all sort of waiting for the chips to fall a little bit more.
[50:51.930 --> 50:55.210]  Yeah, I don't subscribe to the notion that it's all part of a conspiracy by the U.S.
[50:55.310 --> 50:55.770]  government necessarily.
[50:55.770 --> 50:59.030]  It could be, but I really don't think they're that together.
[50:59.250 --> 51:00.770]  But I do think there's a smear campaign.
[51:00.930 --> 51:10.430]  I do think that's something that a lot of people would benefit from and take an interest in besmirching someone's character based on almost no information.
[51:10.430 --> 51:13.450]  So when there's information, that's when we'll actually talk about it.
[51:13.490 --> 51:21.570]  I think the smear campaign includes the establishment media, which has been trying to play up the stories like, oh, mutiny in WikiLeaks.
[51:21.570 --> 51:23.510]  Like, oh, everybody's against their side and stuff like that.
[51:23.730 --> 51:24.390]  Well, maybe.
[51:24.630 --> 51:24.830]  Maybe.
[51:25.070 --> 51:35.630]  But again, it's basically there is so much mystery and lack of representation from other people within the organization that it kind of lends itself to that.
[51:35.630 --> 51:42.970]  So we need to hear more specific words from other people to basically be direct and be honest about what's going on within.
[51:43.210 --> 51:44.230]  I was seeing stories.
[51:44.510 --> 51:46.490]  I was reading Slashdot this morning and looking at it.
[51:46.550 --> 51:49.350]  And a lot of the stories came in from places like the Daily Beast that I don't really...
[51:49.350 --> 51:51.170]  I don't know what kind of vetting system they have.
[51:51.210 --> 51:52.030]  What is the Daily Beast?
[51:52.110 --> 51:52.490]  I don't know.
[51:52.610 --> 51:52.970]  I don't even know.
[51:53.010 --> 51:54.030]  You don't know what the Daily Beast is.
[51:54.190 --> 51:55.970]  But it shows up as a Slashdot headline.
[51:56.070 --> 52:00.090]  And so that sort of amplifies what was already not necessarily...
[52:00.090 --> 52:02.130]  We don't know the vetting system that was involved.
[52:02.250 --> 52:02.730]  So I'm not...
[52:02.730 --> 52:03.230]  I don't know.
[52:03.310 --> 52:04.330]  I'm not ready to move on any of this.
[52:04.410 --> 52:04.570]  Rob?
[52:04.670 --> 52:11.890]  The point is there's Julian Assange is such a hot topic in the news that if someone somewhere says he has blue skin and breathes fire by tomorrow, it'll be in seven different...
[52:11.890 --> 52:14.150]  Julian Assange has blue skin and breathes fire?
[52:14.230 --> 52:17.530]  Yeah, we want to avoid being the weekly world news of WikiLeaks here.
[52:17.530 --> 52:21.170]  And just basically focus on things that actually matter.
[52:21.710 --> 52:21.950]  All right.
[52:22.990 --> 52:24.130]  212-209-2900.
[52:24.270 --> 52:25.690]  Let's see if we can squeeze in a few more.
[52:25.750 --> 52:26.070]  Good evening.
[52:26.230 --> 52:27.170]  You're on Off the Hook.
[52:28.390 --> 52:30.350]  Isn't anonymous call rejection annoying?
[52:30.730 --> 52:32.350]  Yeah, and that's not the only thing that's annoying, Rebel.
[52:32.450 --> 52:32.750]  Good evening.
[52:32.870 --> 52:33.610]  You're on Off the Hook.
[52:34.630 --> 52:35.310]  Speak up, please.
[52:35.970 --> 52:36.330]  Yes, hello.
[52:36.450 --> 52:36.790]  Can you hear me?
[52:36.870 --> 52:37.610]  Yes, I can hear you fine.
[52:37.790 --> 52:38.050]  Go ahead.
[52:38.210 --> 52:38.430]  Hi.
[52:39.350 --> 52:51.550]  In regards to this piracy issue, I'm interested in starting an arm of the International Pirate Party, which is, of course, a bonafide party in Sweden, in New Jersey.
[52:51.810 --> 53:01.110]  Yes, please do that because the Pirate Party is awesome and we need some representation here and it would be great to have something in the United States.
[53:01.250 --> 53:02.170]  Tell us what your plans are.
[53:02.870 --> 53:08.510]  Well, I've already got in touch with the folks at Pirate Party US, so I'm registered with them.
[53:09.230 --> 53:13.510]  Before I hang up, hopefully I get my email out and people can get in touch with me if they're interested.
[53:13.970 --> 53:14.270]  Okay.
[53:14.370 --> 53:18.790]  And basically we'll go through the same process that any, you know, party does.
[53:18.930 --> 53:32.310]  I mean, we're not going to have anywhere near even the potential for power in Sweden because that's a parliamentary government where they can have coalition governments and, you know, the Pirate Party can have a voice, but at least, you know, we can make known the platform,
[53:32.310 --> 53:36.790]  which is basically the free and unhindered exchange of information as a fundamental human right.
[53:36.790 --> 53:49.350]  And before our listeners scoff at this and say, can you imagine voting for somebody in the Pirate Party, consider that there are people in Sweden, people in Germany, I believe, that have been elected?
[53:49.990 --> 53:55.730]  Just in Sweden, people have been elected to the European Parliament, not, at least not yet, to the Swedish Parliament.
[53:55.830 --> 54:00.890]  Is there actual representation or is it just basically some people are holding offices?
[54:01.410 --> 54:03.930]  I mean, are they actually voting on things that...
[54:03.930 --> 54:06.990]  They're in the European Parliament, which has votes.
[54:07.170 --> 54:08.770]  It's kind of a weird institution.
[54:09.070 --> 54:10.410]  Forming vote, coalitions with the Greens and all that.
[54:10.510 --> 54:10.710]  Yeah, yeah.
[54:10.810 --> 54:12.210]  So it is actually possible.
[54:12.530 --> 54:15.930]  And there is a party called the Pirate Party that has that representation in Europe.
[54:15.930 --> 54:17.570]  And they don't think it's funny.
[54:17.670 --> 54:19.650]  They think it's something that's a real issue.
[54:20.250 --> 54:21.830]  And that's something I believe...
[54:21.830 --> 54:27.350]  If we don't think that, it means that we've been led to believe that they're evil people.
[54:27.790 --> 54:29.430]  Of course, they do have the name Pirate.
[54:29.490 --> 54:31.990]  So how do you justify that to the average person?
[54:32.050 --> 54:35.030]  Well, then, if you're not doing something illegal, why do you call yourselves pirates?
[54:35.770 --> 54:37.050]  Well, we all look like Johnny Depp.
[54:38.830 --> 54:39.910]  Okay, fair enough.
[54:40.110 --> 54:41.730]  Give out your email address and we'll move on.
[54:43.090 --> 54:44.730]  Nitoys08 at gmail.com.
[54:44.730 --> 54:48.450]  That's N-I-T-O-Y 0-8 at gmail.com.
[54:48.950 --> 54:51.370]  Okay, and tell us again what you're doing.
[54:51.510 --> 54:53.810]  You're trying to run as what?
[54:54.510 --> 55:00.210]  I don't know, organize just to get the party registered in New Jersey so that people can then vote for any candidate that we may put up.
[55:00.290 --> 55:02.970]  We can have conventions and so forth, just like any other party.
[55:02.970 --> 55:10.810]  Okay, and hopefully those conventions will raise some serious issues and maybe have people think a little bit as to what the Pirate Party actually represents.
[55:10.970 --> 55:11.430]  Go ahead, Voltaire.
[55:11.710 --> 55:16.730]  And if you're from other states or in the U.S., you can go to pirateparty.us.
[55:17.230 --> 55:17.630]  Yes.
[55:18.030 --> 55:18.230]  Correct.
[55:18.230 --> 55:20.430]  212-209-2900.
[55:20.430 --> 55:21.030]  Good evening.
[55:21.210 --> 55:21.950]  You're on Off the Hook.
[55:22.670 --> 55:22.930]  Hi.
[55:23.230 --> 55:23.610]  Good evening.
[55:23.790 --> 55:23.990]  Hi.
[55:24.210 --> 55:26.090]  I always find your show fascinating and interesting.
[55:26.090 --> 55:28.430]  I don't think I've ever called the XOXA before.
[55:28.690 --> 55:29.090]  Well, welcome.
[55:29.210 --> 55:29.970]  But I thank you.
[55:29.970 --> 55:45.930]  I just wanted to point out that with every change in voting procedure, it's been a disenfranchisement of those who were either at the end or the beginning onset point of a participatory democracy.
[55:47.050 --> 55:58.390]  With the Australian example or with your friend, the German example, there's more access and there are fewer obstacles, I should say, to participating.
[55:58.770 --> 56:19.910]  And when you work with young people and they're disenfranchised or, as you clearly pointed out, you work with an older population and they feel that the confusion that will approach or confront them makes it difficult for them to exercise any rights or privilege then you have a disenfranchisement across the board.
[56:20.150 --> 56:35.130]  And I also find, just from the last comment, I heard your excellent show with one of your guests who had tracked and found and used his technology to find someone in the world who was trying to hide.
[56:35.130 --> 56:36.390]  I don't remember the name of the gentleman.
[56:36.630 --> 56:37.470]  Ah, yes, Steve Rambon.
[56:37.690 --> 56:58.850]  Yes, but the interesting thing that sometimes I hear from you and other producers at WBI and other stations of similar like or like minds is that there seems to be this naive, in my word naive, not yours, idea that there aren't others who have that same capability who are not using that capability for nefarious ends.
[56:59.610 --> 57:04.850]  And often it's called conspiracy theory, but I would ask everyone to look up the word conspiracy.
[57:05.410 --> 57:16.010]  All it takes is the four of you, the five of you, and me on the phone sitting and discussing an idea and someone else will call us intermeshed, interlinked, and that we are conspirators.
[57:16.310 --> 57:18.250]  All right, thanks for that final thought.
[57:18.270 --> 57:19.450]  And we're going to have to leave it there.
[57:20.310 --> 57:23.650]  The primaries are next Tuesday, so it'll be interesting to see how this new voting system works.
[57:23.770 --> 57:25.810]  We'll find out about it and we'll report on it next week.
[57:26.370 --> 57:29.750]  Until then, write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[57:30.090 --> 57:31.170]  See you next week.
[57:31.350 --> 57:31.590]  Good night.
[57:32.310 --> 57:34.050]  It's all about the pandemics, baby.
[58:20.610 --> 58:21.410]  I'm out.
[58:24.990 --> 58:29.610]  I ain't afraid of Y2K.
[58:29.890 --> 58:30.950]  I'm down with Bill Gates.
[58:31.030 --> 58:32.210]  I call him money for sure.
[58:32.390 --> 58:35.230]  I phone him up at home and I make him do my tech support.
[58:35.230 --> 58:36.950]  It's all about the previous one.
[58:36.950 --> 58:39.650]  You gotta be the dumbest movie I've ever seen.
[58:39.810 --> 58:42.250]  You've got whiteout all over your screen.
[58:42.670 --> 58:45.410]  You think your Commodore 64 is really neato.
[58:45.650 --> 58:47.290]  What kind of chip you got in there?
[58:47.290 --> 58:48.030]  A Dorito?
[58:48.490 --> 58:50.830]  You're using a 286, don't make me laugh.
[58:50.990 --> 58:53.290]  Your window boots up in, what, a day and a half?
[58:53.550 --> 58:56.730]  You could back up your whole hard drive on a floppy diskette.
[58:56.950 --> 58:58.670]  You're the biggest joke on the internet.
[58:58.910 --> 59:00.690]  Your database is a disaster.
[59:01.310 --> 59:03.890]  Your wax and your modem try to make it go faster.
[59:03.890 --> 59:07.010]  Hey, fella, I bet you're still living in your parents' cellar.
[59:07.170 --> 59:09.270]  Downloading pictures of Sarah Michelle Gellar.
[59:09.390 --> 59:11.770]  And posting me too, like some braindead AOLA.
[59:11.850 --> 59:14.490]  I should do the world a favor and cap you like old Yella.
[59:14.630 --> 59:17.390]  You're just about as useless as JPEGs to Helen Keller.
[59:36.080 --> 59:38.440]  Recent tempo of a chat room, yackers!
[59:38.760 --> 59:41.040]  9 to 5, chillin' at Hewlett-Packard!
[59:41.400 --> 59:42.960]  Wanna run with my crew, huh?
[59:43.360 --> 59:46.000]  Rule signless, phase, and crunch numbers like I do.
[59:46.140 --> 59:48.360]  They call me the king of the spreadsheets.
[59:48.640 --> 59:50.820]  Got them all printed out on my bedsheets.
[59:50.820 --> 59:52.640]  My new computer's got the clocks.
[59:52.640 --> 59:53.160]  It rocked.
[59:53.200 --> 59:55.760]  But it was obsolete before I opened the box.
[59:56.000 --> 59:58.340]  You say you've had your desktop for over a week?
[59:58.560 --> 01:00:00.080]  Throw that junk away, man.
[01:00:00.080 --> 01:00:00.880]  It's an antique.
[01:00:01.240 --> 01:00:02.760]  Your laptop is a month old?
[01:00:02.860 --> 01:00:03.620]  Oh, that's great.
[01:00:03.780 --> 01:00:06.180]  If you could use a nice heavy paperweight.
[01:00:06.180 --> 01:00:08.980]  My digital media is right protected.
[01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:10.940]  Every file inspected.
[01:00:11.160 --> 01:00:12.200]  No virus is detected.
[01:00:12.500 --> 01:00:14.920]  I beta tested every operating system.
[01:00:15.080 --> 01:00:17.540]  Gave props to some and others I dissed them.
[01:00:17.700 --> 01:00:20.140]  While your computer's crashing, mine's multitasking.
[01:00:20.300 --> 01:00:22.720]  It does all my work without me even asking.
[01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:25.300]  Got a flat screen monitor 40 inches wide.
[01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:27.880]  I believe that yours says it's a sketch on the side.
[01:00:27.880 --> 01:00:30.600]  In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user.
[01:00:30.680 --> 01:00:32.220]  You've got your own news group.
[01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:33.280]  I'm a total loser.
[01:00:33.540 --> 01:00:35.800]  Your motherboard melts when you're trying to send a fax.
[01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:38.800]  Where'd you get your CPU in a box of Cracker Jacks?
[01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:39.680]  Play me online?
[01:00:39.860 --> 01:00:41.200]  Well, you know that I'll beat you.
[01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:44.000]  If I ever meet you, I'll control all the leads you.
[01:00:44.200 --> 01:00:44.540]  What?
[01:00:44.780 --> 01:00:45.220]  What?
[01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:45.880]  What?
[01:00:55.070 --> 01:00:56.330]  What you wanna do?
[01:00:56.590 --> 01:00:57.870]  Wanna be hackers?
[01:01:06.550 --> 01:01:06.990]  What?
[01:01:06.990 --> 01:01:07.430]  What?
[01:01:07.890 --> 01:01:08.090]  What?
[01:01:08.210 --> 01:01:08.210]  What?
[01:01:09.030 --> 01:01:09.030]  What?
[01:01:09.310 --> 01:01:09.750]  Yeah.
[01:01:10.350 --> 01:01:11.610]  Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
[01:01:12.210 --> 01:01:12.910]  I don't know.
[01:01:13.030 --> 01:01:13.790]  I'm not saying anything.
[01:01:14.010 --> 01:01:16.810]  That was Weird Al Yankovic, right?
[01:01:17.510 --> 01:01:18.290]  Oh, boy.