[00:02.480 --> 00:07.960]  And you are listening to radio station WBAI, which fortunately does not have cameras in it.
[00:09.100 --> 00:11.880]  WBAI New York, it's 7 o'clock time for Off the Hook.
[00:17.980 --> 00:22.460]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:23.400 --> 00:28.020]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[00:28.580 --> 00:30.800]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:33.500 --> 00:36.240]  Bum-diddly-bump, but the best is paid for worst.
[00:36.800 --> 00:38.740]  I hope that's understood.
[00:39.060 --> 00:39.820]  Bum-diddly-bump!
[02:07.350 --> 02:07.790]  Bum-diddly-bump!
[02:07.790 --> 02:09.350]  And Groovie, everybody, the program is Off the Hook.
[02:09.450 --> 02:12.150]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:12.590 --> 02:14.470]  Joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:14.750 --> 02:15.190]  Firefly.
[02:15.450 --> 02:16.030]  Good evening.
[02:16.390 --> 02:16.830]  .ret.
[02:17.190 --> 02:17.410]  Hello.
[02:17.890 --> 02:18.210]  Jim.
[02:18.630 --> 02:18.990]  Oh, yeah.
[02:19.370 --> 02:21.710]  Wait a minute, try that again, because your mic is...
[02:21.710 --> 02:22.370]  Oh, yeah.
[02:22.450 --> 02:23.330]  Okay, that's better.
[02:23.830 --> 02:24.530]  And Bernie S.
[02:24.590 --> 02:25.130]  down in Philadelphia.
[02:25.690 --> 02:26.730]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:27.070 --> 02:28.290]  Skeleton crew tonight, wow.
[02:28.530 --> 02:29.710]  You know what, I kind of like it.
[02:29.790 --> 02:31.250]  I kind of like not having a crowd in here.
[02:31.650 --> 02:37.750]  It makes things a little bit more intimate, and you can, you know, get your mind around certain thoughts and things like that.
[02:37.830 --> 02:38.790]  It's very roomy now.
[02:38.930 --> 02:40.410]  I hope nobody else walks through the door.
[02:40.530 --> 02:40.950]  I really do.
[02:41.550 --> 02:42.510]  Is that antisocial?
[02:42.650 --> 02:45.250]  Well, you know, we have five people on the air.
[02:45.330 --> 02:47.650]  I think that's enough, and we have a guest that will be on in a little bit.
[02:48.110 --> 02:48.750]  There's a lock.
[02:48.750 --> 02:49.750]  We can lock the door if you want.
[02:49.750 --> 02:50.410]  There is a lock.
[02:51.170 --> 02:52.910]  There's the electrified fence outside.
[02:52.950 --> 02:55.010]  There's all kinds of cool things that we can make use of.
[02:55.130 --> 02:58.130]  But for now, I think it's nice and cozy.
[02:58.310 --> 02:59.170]  And I'm in a good mood.
[02:59.170 --> 03:02.130]  I'm in a very good mood because, well...
[03:02.130 --> 03:02.570]  Really?
[03:02.870 --> 03:03.430]  Yeah, I am.
[03:03.630 --> 03:03.990]  Yes, Jim.
[03:04.030 --> 03:04.470]  I'm in a good mood.
[03:04.590 --> 03:06.930]  I don't like to gloat.
[03:07.110 --> 03:08.670]  You know, I'm not a gloater.
[03:08.770 --> 03:09.250]  You know that.
[03:09.510 --> 03:13.910]  I mean, I get into all kinds of arguments with people about various things.
[03:13.910 --> 03:17.130]  And when I'm proven right, I usually, you know, act like a gentleman about it.
[03:17.130 --> 03:19.210]  And I don't say, haha, I told you so.
[03:19.610 --> 03:20.050]  Sucker.
[03:20.170 --> 03:20.790]  Eat that.
[03:20.950 --> 03:21.470]  You know, whatever.
[03:22.410 --> 03:27.490]  Whatever the term is when you obviously are correct and someone else is obviously wrong.
[03:28.490 --> 03:29.370]  And, wow.
[03:29.570 --> 03:32.570]  Did you see what happened yesterday with the primary election?
[03:33.310 --> 03:34.650]  Let me read you a headline here.
[03:34.770 --> 03:37.070]  Angry New Yorkers hate new voting machines.
[03:37.430 --> 03:38.330]  Don't like that one?
[03:38.330 --> 03:39.230]  Okay, how about this?
[03:39.530 --> 03:40.430]  From the Wall Street Journal.
[03:40.610 --> 03:42.830]  A dismal debut for New York City's voting machines.
[03:42.990 --> 03:46.810]  The mayor, the mayor of New York City, called it a royal screw-up.
[03:47.090 --> 03:48.410]  Completely unacceptable.
[03:49.650 --> 03:50.010]  They're...
[03:50.470 --> 03:51.330]  Let's take a look at this.
[03:51.370 --> 03:55.130]  Let's take a look at this story, which was on AOL.
[03:55.430 --> 03:59.010]  They're loud, they're arguably obnoxious, and they don't like to be messed with.
[03:59.470 --> 04:00.230]  Yeah, that's AOL.
[04:00.470 --> 04:02.730]  But they're talking about the voting...
[04:02.730 --> 04:04.130]  No, they're talking about the...
[04:04.130 --> 04:06.310]  Are they talking about the voting machines or are they talking about New Yorkers?
[04:06.310 --> 04:06.690]  I'm not sure.
[04:07.170 --> 04:15.390]  The latest target of New Yorkers' ire are the new voting machines, which perplexed them, broke down, and ate their primary election ballots.
[04:15.950 --> 04:26.820]  One of the most irked voters was New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who proclaimed the new electronic system a royal screw-up, as we said, and blasted the local board of elections for not being prepared.
[04:27.210 --> 04:30.410]  Had they only listened to our radio show, maybe they would have been more prepared.
[04:30.550 --> 04:38.530]  Maybe they would have realized that, you know, you're treading into waters here that have potential sharks in them, and maybe you don't really know what you're doing.
[04:39.190 --> 04:44.370]  He said there's a total absence of accountability for how the board performed on Election Day.
[04:44.370 --> 04:45.070]  He said election day.
[04:45.190 --> 04:46.350]  I assume he meant primary day.
[04:46.450 --> 04:48.150]  Or do you call primary day election day?
[04:48.510 --> 04:50.030]  I guess you're elected somebody.
[04:50.130 --> 04:50.710]  You can do that, Bernie?
[04:50.810 --> 04:51.530]  You can call it election day?
[04:51.730 --> 04:52.550]  It is election day.
[04:52.630 --> 04:53.630]  It's primary election day.
[04:53.930 --> 04:54.870]  Primary election day.
[04:55.030 --> 04:55.230]  Okay.
[04:55.410 --> 04:57.570]  So then what's the election day called on election day?
[04:57.750 --> 04:58.110]  Secondary?
[04:58.710 --> 04:59.610]  General election day.
[04:59.870 --> 05:00.670]  General election day.
[05:00.810 --> 05:00.990]  Okay.
[05:01.150 --> 05:02.270]  We'll reelect all the generals.
[05:03.710 --> 05:16.070]  Anyway, because the board is a remnant of the days when Tammany Hall ran New York, he angrily told reporters yesterday after widespread reports of malfunctioning machines that caused Long lines, invalidated ballots, and problems all throughout the state,
[05:16.130 --> 05:16.510]  in fact.
[05:16.810 --> 05:22.630]  New York State being the last state to make the jump into the electronic voting age.
[05:22.810 --> 05:34.810]  And what I made out to be, you know, not necessarily an unneeded change, but one that was ill-advised, one that certainly caused all kinds of potential problems.
[05:34.810 --> 05:37.530]  And as we see now, yes, they are indeed problems.
[05:37.530 --> 05:47.850]  And the problem I had was people blindly defending these things when there are so many obvious situations that were going to be caused.
[05:48.010 --> 05:59.370]  You know, New York being the last state, as you said, to, you know, jump into the electronic voting machines, you kind of would have thought that New York would have had the benefit of so much more experience to, you know...
[05:59.370 --> 06:04.050]  Well, just the input, the input from people who knew what they were talking about, you know, looking at what other states did.
[06:04.050 --> 06:09.850]  The thing that gets me is that this is... New York State had to do this to comply with the federal law.
[06:10.190 --> 06:14.830]  And that federal law was designed to prevent all the problems from the 2000 presidential election.
[06:14.990 --> 06:16.530]  Remember the hanging chads and George W.
[06:16.670 --> 06:18.230]  Bush and all that nightmarish stuff?
[06:18.730 --> 06:21.210]  But none of that ever was a problem in New York.
[06:21.350 --> 06:22.990]  We didn't have hanging chads in the first place.
[06:23.090 --> 06:23.790]  It was kind of silly.
[06:23.910 --> 06:25.330]  We had the big clunky machines.
[06:25.550 --> 06:27.710]  And like we said, there are problems with those machines.
[06:27.710 --> 06:30.970]  But nothing, nothing to compare with what we're seeing now.
[06:31.670 --> 06:38.790]  For more than five decades, that's more than 50 years, New Yorkers had stepped behind curtains and pulled a heavy lever that recorded votes.
[06:38.830 --> 06:41.230]  But the problem was it left no paper trail.
[06:41.350 --> 06:45.570]  I maintain there's a way to create a paper trail using a combination of technology.
[06:45.570 --> 06:46.810]  But nobody wants to hear that.
[06:47.590 --> 06:51.030]  Tuesday's primary was the first time New Yorkers glimpsed electronic machines.
[06:51.290 --> 07:00.150]  Election officials have said they did the best they could, hiring extra poll workers, conducting training seminars for the new machines while facing budget cuts and fiscal crises.
[07:01.090 --> 07:02.530]  Anybody here vote?
[07:03.670 --> 07:06.190]  I don't vote in primaries because I'm not allowed to.
[07:06.410 --> 07:06.830]  Me either.
[07:06.970 --> 07:07.130]  Ditto.
[07:07.650 --> 07:07.990]  Yeah.
[07:08.350 --> 07:10.730]  And Bernie, you're not in New York State, so it doesn't even matter.
[07:10.970 --> 07:12.330]  Yeah, we didn't have a primary down here.
[07:12.430 --> 07:20.550]  But I always think it's a rip-off that when you're, you can't vote unless, in a primary, unless you're registered, if you're registered as independent.
[07:20.550 --> 07:22.110]  It just seems unfair somehow.
[07:22.110 --> 07:32.710]  So I always register with one party or the other, so I can at least, like, screw things up for the party I'm registered under, if I want to at least have a voice of some kind.
[07:33.090 --> 07:34.750]  Yeah, I mean, it's not fair.
[07:34.750 --> 07:35.090]  You're right.
[07:35.190 --> 07:37.330]  And there should be a way to get a voice.
[07:37.330 --> 07:44.050]  Because by the time the decision is made as to who is going to be running for governor or president or mayor or whatever, you've had no say in it.
[07:44.110 --> 07:46.470]  You've had no say in getting it to that stage.
[07:46.470 --> 07:50.370]  It's like you're on a baseball team, but you don't get to play in the regular season.
[07:50.370 --> 07:55.090]  You only get to play in the quarterfinal or something, or just the final.
[07:55.370 --> 07:56.270]  It's not really fair.
[07:56.390 --> 07:58.750]  It's not like you really got them to that stage.
[07:59.010 --> 08:05.770]  I'd like to read some excerpts from somebody who wrote in the New York Times who experienced the nightmare of yesterday.
[08:05.770 --> 08:09.910]  I just wish there are people here today to try and defend these machines now.
[08:10.070 --> 08:11.750]  You know, it's funny how they're all gone.
[08:12.070 --> 08:13.850]  Everybody's not here to defend them.
[08:14.710 --> 08:15.190]  They're what?
[08:15.350 --> 08:15.930]  They're weeping.
[08:16.110 --> 08:16.670]  Are they weeping?
[08:16.830 --> 08:17.370]  Are they weeping?
[08:17.550 --> 08:17.710]  Hmm.
[08:17.910 --> 08:20.650]  Well, we'll have to find out at a later date, I guess.
[08:21.610 --> 08:30.210]  Now, the old voting booth, as some of you may know, was about half the size of a New York City bathroom, surrounded by curtains that ran from well above your head down to your calves.
[08:30.590 --> 08:34.610]  This enclosed curtain space conveyed that you were engaged in a private ritual.
[08:34.610 --> 08:42.890]  The impression was reinforced by the first thing you did on entering the booth, which was to pull a giant handle into the voting position, indicated by a huge red arrow in front of you.
[08:42.950 --> 08:45.930]  And when you pulled the handle, the curtain closed behind you with a big thud.
[08:46.150 --> 08:48.690]  The machine in front of you took up most of the width of the booth.
[08:48.950 --> 08:51.570]  On its face, you read the candidates' names and columns.
[08:51.730 --> 08:54.150]  Each column was headed by the political party's name.
[08:54.430 --> 08:58.650]  Next to each candidate's name was a box and small lever about the size of a thumbnail.
[08:58.990 --> 09:04.170]  When you pulled the lever, there was a clicking sound, and an X appeared in the box next to the candidate's name.
[09:04.610 --> 09:07.550]  Mistakenly pulled the wrong lever or had second thoughts, you pulled it back.
[09:07.710 --> 09:09.510]  The X disappeared, and you could begin again.
[09:09.770 --> 09:14.450]  When you were satisfied with your selection, you cast your vote by pulling the giant handle again.
[09:14.750 --> 09:19.610]  With a big ka-ching, not unlike the theme of law and order, your vote was cast.
[09:19.790 --> 09:23.710]  The X has disappeared, ensuring its secrecy, and the curtain behind you opened.
[09:23.950 --> 09:28.930]  These old machines broke down a lot, although I personally have never seen this happen, and I vote in every election.
[09:29.170 --> 09:31.970]  But their main flaw was that they didn't keep any paper record.
[09:31.970 --> 09:36.470]  If the machine broke or went berserk and miscounted, there was no way to recount the ballots.
[09:36.710 --> 09:38.250]  So here's the new system.
[09:38.550 --> 09:50.910]  Ten years after it was first mandated by law, when you sign in, as I did at my polling place for the 52nd Assembly District on Clinton Street in Brooklyn Heights, the poll watcher gave me a paper ballot, longer than a legal-sized sheet.
[09:51.130 --> 09:56.530]  The candidates' names and instructions for using the ballot were printed on one side of the sheet of paper in very small letters.
[09:57.210 --> 10:01.250]  The political party's names must be there too, but the font is so small, I don't remember seeing them.
[10:01.890 --> 10:07.510]  He also gives you a privacy folder, a manila folder that is shorter than the ballot and looks like an afterthought.
[10:08.390 --> 10:10.250]  Not every polling place apparently has these.
[10:10.830 --> 10:11.990]  The voting booths are gone.
[10:12.090 --> 10:14.670]  In their place are a dozen flimsy little lecterns.
[10:15.170 --> 10:16.250]  These are gimcrack.
[10:17.070 --> 10:18.770]  I've never seen that word before in my life.
[10:19.030 --> 10:20.030]  Rob, you must know this word.
[10:20.230 --> 10:22.090]  Gimcrack, G-I-M-C-R-A-C-K.
[10:22.510 --> 10:23.090]  I have heard this.
[10:23.110 --> 10:23.510]  It's top G.
[10:23.850 --> 10:25.090]  Oh, it's gimcrack.
[10:25.430 --> 10:25.770]  Yes.
[10:26.190 --> 10:26.770]  Sorry, Jim.
[10:26.950 --> 10:27.790]  Well, that's what they say.
[10:28.410 --> 10:29.070]  All right.
[10:29.250 --> 10:37.270]  These gimcrack contraptions look like something created by a suburban parent to amuse the kids on a rainy day in the pre-television 1950s.
[10:37.450 --> 10:44.830]  A pretend Martian, a little lectern on spindly legs with a waist-high writing surface topped by an open cardboard box.
[10:45.310 --> 10:49.090]  You take your paper ballot and your privacy folder to this contraption.
[10:49.230 --> 10:50.350]  You stand in front of it.
[10:50.450 --> 10:54.970]  The sides of the cardboard box barely conceal your hands and the paper ballot in front of you.
[10:55.650 --> 11:03.610]  Attached to the lectern with the same little chains that banks use to keep people from stealing their pens are a pen and a clear but yellowish piece of plastic.
[11:03.850 --> 11:07.230]  You've been cautioned by the poll watcher to fill out the ballot only with this pen.
[11:07.850 --> 11:13.210]  The piece of plastic is supposed to be a magnifier, although when I put it over my ballot to test it, it didn't magnify anything.
[11:13.750 --> 11:26.030]  The instructions on the ballot, again, in very small print, there's no large print on this ballot, warns you that if you put any mark on the ballot anywhere other than in the designated and tiny circles next to or above the candidate's name, your ballot will not be counted.
[11:26.350 --> 11:30.130]  You fill in the little circles like the SAT test, only less legible.
[11:30.370 --> 11:41.370]  You then put your ballot inside the privacy folder and walk to one of the scanners, which looks something like a Xerox machine, but not as comfortingly familiar, where a friendly poll watcher helps you cast your vote.
[11:41.550 --> 11:45.690]  The immediate question is, do I put in my ballot face up or face down?
[11:46.130 --> 11:48.490]  In my case, the poll worker said, it doesn't matter.
[11:48.650 --> 11:51.890]  So I put it in face down to conceal my vote.
[11:52.070 --> 11:56.030]  It went into the machine, which then flashed the message, your vote has been counted.
[11:56.550 --> 12:03.990]  Since I don't understand how the machine can record the votes, regardless of whether the ballot is inserted facing up or down, I did not feel confident that this was true.
[12:04.390 --> 12:11.530]  Indeed, I'd later learned that National Public Radio and a number of poll watchers had told voters that you had to put your ballot in face up for it to be counted.
[12:12.350 --> 12:15.230]  If true, this means that you must reveal your vote.
[12:15.690 --> 12:20.070]  It lies in the scanner's surface for several seconds before sliding in in order to cast it.
[12:20.190 --> 12:22.350]  Unless the poll watcher steps far enough back.
[12:22.470 --> 12:26.630]  But since voters haven't used these machines before, poll watchers were not stepping back.
[12:26.790 --> 12:30.750]  They were hovering with instructions and often putting in the ballot on the voter's behalf.
[12:31.350 --> 12:39.130]  Now, it's been reported in the media that if you mistakenly fill in too many tiny circles, thus voting for more than one candidate for the same office, your ballot will not be counted.
[12:39.590 --> 12:41.570]  But you are not told this when you vote.
[12:41.570 --> 12:52.050]  If you make that mistake, and I can't emphasize enough how easily this can happen in an election like Tuesdays where we had 22 candidates for 11 judicial positions, the scanner's message does not tell you your ballot is invalid.
[12:52.210 --> 12:53.870]  It merely says, you have overvoted.
[12:54.050 --> 12:56.590]  Do you want to proceed and cast this ballot or start again?
[12:56.990 --> 13:00.170]  It's very hard to picture many people picking option B.
[13:00.910 --> 13:04.010]  My experience shows the system's performance under optimal conditions.
[13:04.010 --> 13:11.550]  A voter who can read the ballot, who does not need to find party affiliation to pick candidates and who can count 11 tiny names and 11 tiny circles out of the 22 listed.
[13:11.790 --> 13:13.230]  I counted twice to make sure.
[13:13.570 --> 13:20.150]  And also at my polling place, scanners that were delivered on time, apparently working, and perhaps most important, we had low voter turnout.
[13:20.670 --> 13:22.410]  Those are all the ingredients necessary.
[13:22.790 --> 13:23.630]  We spent more than...
[13:23.630 --> 13:24.790]  Let me finish, Bernie.
[13:25.190 --> 13:29.290]  We spent more than $70 million on this new system.
[13:30.410 --> 13:31.770]  Yes, Bernie, now you may talk.
[13:32.030 --> 13:32.470]  I'm sorry.
[13:32.550 --> 13:33.250]  I thought it was the end.
[13:33.370 --> 13:35.070]  I got to jump in because I'm on a cell phone delay.
[13:35.070 --> 13:41.050]  Hey, one nice thing about the mechanical voting machines, among others, is that you could not overvote.
[13:41.050 --> 13:47.710]  When you pull down the lever for one office or whatever, it wouldn't let you pull down a second one.
[13:47.750 --> 13:49.170]  So you couldn't screw up that way.
[13:49.270 --> 13:52.510]  This new system sounds like it's just asking for more problems.
[13:52.850 --> 13:53.690]  Yeah, it really is.
[13:53.730 --> 13:56.410]  And there are so many ways it could be done.
[13:56.710 --> 14:01.450]  I'm not a luddite standing in the way of progress, although I really question whether or not this is progress.
[14:01.650 --> 14:11.770]  But there are ways to use electronic machinery and ways to have the paper trail and not have such incredible screw-ups.
[14:11.890 --> 14:12.750]  That was so predictable.
[14:12.790 --> 14:14.770]  You could see this coming a mile away.
[14:14.990 --> 14:15.390]  Yeah.
[14:15.610 --> 14:21.350]  Earlier this week, I was looking through some old photos and I found some dated from the year 2000 when they were setting up the new MetroCard machines.
[14:22.690 --> 14:27.350]  And it struck me that we have been using those things for 10 years now with little to no problems.
[14:27.510 --> 14:28.210]  They've been running well.
[14:28.330 --> 14:29.090]  They're easy to use.
[14:30.950 --> 14:35.770]  I'm always hailing the MetroCard machines as an example of machines that work that do what they're supposed to do.
[14:35.990 --> 14:37.210]  Yes, they break down.
[14:37.310 --> 14:38.070]  Any machine will break down.
[14:38.150 --> 14:39.910]  But it's clear what's wrong when it does break down.
[14:39.930 --> 14:42.750]  It tells you what it can't do and directs you to a different machine.
[14:43.390 --> 14:45.910]  There are all kinds of pieces of it.
[14:45.970 --> 14:46.770]  There's a credit card reader.
[14:46.930 --> 14:47.690]  There's a bill inserter.
[14:47.890 --> 14:48.490]  Things like that.
[14:48.490 --> 14:51.070]  And sometimes one of them breaks down.
[14:51.070 --> 14:52.450]  You move on to the next one.
[14:52.590 --> 14:53.670]  But the instructions are clear.
[14:54.610 --> 15:10.230]  And one thing that somebody told me was that if you haven't done this yet, you haven't inserted your ballot yet into that scanner machine at the very end, imagine the frustration that you have when you're trying to insert a dollar bill into a soda machine and it just keeps rejecting it.
[15:10.330 --> 15:13.110]  That's what was happening to people yesterday all over the place.
[15:13.190 --> 15:14.190]  Imagine that frustration.
[15:14.450 --> 15:18.310]  How many times have you experienced that frustration pulling levers and opening curtains?
[15:18.850 --> 15:19.690]  It's just...
[15:19.690 --> 15:20.410]  It's ridiculous.
[15:20.590 --> 15:25.390]  This could have been done so much better had they consulted with people, had they done some more testing, had they listened.
[15:26.030 --> 15:26.550]  Oh, Emanuel.
[15:26.750 --> 15:26.950]  Yes.
[15:27.390 --> 15:31.190]  I just thought of a real serious vulnerability to people's voting privacy.
[15:31.330 --> 15:47.290]  If you're standing at the polls and watching, you know, from afar, the line of people going into a particular machine, you had a video camera with it or something, you just were looking for to see when certain people went into the booth.
[15:47.410 --> 16:00.310]  If you had access to the paper trail, which probably would be timestamped to show what votes were cast at what time, you could look up and figure out what everybody's votes were just based on, you know, this guy went in.
[16:00.490 --> 16:04.730]  And you can generally overhear the names because you walk up and you say your name and all that.
[16:04.850 --> 16:05.930]  I see that as a problem.
[16:06.090 --> 16:08.330]  I'm not offering a solution, but I see that as a problem.
[16:08.450 --> 16:17.430]  And I think that's a problem that we should focus on in the general election when we're voting here in New York, many of us for the first time, using this system.
[16:17.430 --> 16:23.630]  We should see how much we can find out about the person next to us without them realizing that we're doing it.
[16:23.770 --> 16:31.450]  Just to show that the system, it leaves out so many important details such as privacy, voter confidentiality, things like that.
[16:32.410 --> 16:33.230]  Yes, go ahead, Rob.
[16:33.470 --> 16:43.830]  Yeah, that's another point to consider is a lot of the sorts of places that have the elections taking place are like schools and places like that, which now are under video surveillance.
[16:44.050 --> 16:46.830]  So who's watching those monitors now and who's looking over whose shoulders?
[16:47.090 --> 16:51.290]  Yeah, and just the fact that you're able to be seen.
[16:51.370 --> 16:52.770]  You're able to be seen while you're voting.
[16:52.770 --> 16:54.490]  That's something that just annoys me.
[16:54.590 --> 16:58.190]  You know, I'm very self-conscious, not only when I'm voting, but all the time.
[16:58.750 --> 17:05.830]  And just having people staring at you or staring you down or anything like that, it's, yeah, it's troubling.
[17:05.970 --> 17:06.450]  It's very troubling.
[17:07.230 --> 17:13.330]  So, yeah, not the best, not the best debut to this new technology.
[17:14.590 --> 17:16.210]  Oh, did you hear about this?
[17:16.970 --> 17:21.050]  Actually, maybe you could get our guest on the phone while I set this up here.
[17:22.050 --> 17:35.390]  Another fun bit of technology, which we've played with sometimes, not nearly enough, but I'm referring to the emergency alert system that goes over the radio, over television.
[17:35.390 --> 17:40.970]  It interrupts your program sometimes and it's just very annoying and drives people crazy.
[17:41.390 --> 17:49.430]  Well, apparently, there is a commercial, there's a commercial out that plays part of this.
[17:49.930 --> 18:04.970]  And basically, a radio commercial being aired by Arco, the gas company, Arco, a subsidiary of our friends over at BP, uses EAS header tones at the start of the commercial.
[18:04.970 --> 18:10.850]  And what that did was it tripped some emergency alert system units all across the country.
[18:11.790 --> 18:15.690]  Yeah, the commercial starts with shortened EAS headers.
[18:16.090 --> 18:21.550]  Then the spoken phrase, the following alert is from Arco, and then the ad material.
[18:21.770 --> 18:30.990]  The EAS headers are partial but contain enough information to mimic the start of an EAS header using the proper frequencies and data rate.
[18:31.130 --> 18:39.950]  When this commercial is played by a station that is being monitored, it may cause some EAS equipment to unmute and print a partial message.
[18:40.290 --> 18:47.470]  Well, I don't know if it's going to do that for us, but let's take a listen to the very beginning of this commercial and see if it causes any chaos.
[18:48.250 --> 18:53.350]  For Ogilvy and Mather, this is Arco Radio spot entitled Everyday Value Alert Revised.
[18:53.450 --> 18:54.130]  30 seconds.
[18:54.210 --> 18:54.530]  Ignore all this.
[18:54.550 --> 18:56.830]  It's the code AOAR0025.
[18:57.410 --> 18:59.370]  Mono Stereo Compatible Mix with Tupac.
[19:03.250 --> 19:08.550]  The following alert is from Arco's Straight Up Gas Institute and our Everyday Value System.
[19:08.670 --> 19:09.450]  Okay, that's enough of that.
[19:09.850 --> 19:11.110]  I'm not going to hear any more from you.
[19:11.350 --> 19:13.170]  But apparently those tones, that's enough.
[19:13.250 --> 19:15.290]  That's enough to really mess things up a little bit.
[19:15.630 --> 19:21.470]  And tell us, is there chaos in the streets now or all kinds of machines being activated by just those simple little tones?
[19:21.730 --> 19:24.090]  I don't know about that, but I suddenly can't remember third grade.
[19:24.660 --> 19:26.070]  Well, that's only a good thing.
[19:26.210 --> 19:26.950]  What do you think, Bernie?
[19:27.630 --> 19:28.590]  I think it could have.
[19:28.670 --> 19:32.350]  In fact, there's a little data burst you hear or actually FSK encoded data.
[19:32.550 --> 19:40.170]  So you could, someone with the right software could actually decode what data was embedded in that Arco commercial burst.
[19:40.510 --> 19:41.270]  I'm curious.
[19:42.530 --> 19:42.950]  Absolutely.
[19:44.130 --> 19:51.850]  Well, okay, we have a bit of listener mail and then we're going to get right to our special guest and of course we'll be taking phone calls in just a little bit.
[19:52.550 --> 20:02.590]  But this is from Nathan who writes to us saying there are so many things wrong with the matchup of Snoop Dogg and Semantic that we discussed last week.
[20:02.630 --> 20:05.950]  We're talking, of course, about the Hack is Whack campaign.
[20:06.610 --> 20:15.010]  Submit your two-minute rap as to why cybercrime is evil and you get to meet Snoop's laptop or something, something crazy like that.
[20:15.630 --> 20:25.170]  Yeah, Snoop Dogg is known for popping caps, pimpin' hoes, smoking blunts and crip walking with ties to organized crime.
[20:25.870 --> 20:28.950]  Him going on record against cybercrime is super hypocritical.
[20:29.110 --> 20:29.830]  I don't know.
[20:29.930 --> 20:31.110]  You make us sound super cool now.
[20:31.830 --> 20:36.050]  It's already on record supporting or glamorizing non-cybercrime.
[20:36.170 --> 20:42.070]  And you know, smoking blunts, I'm sorry, but that's just, you can't equate that with almost anything out there.
[20:42.210 --> 20:57.290]  But regardless, the thing that stands out the most is that Semantic's business relies on fear, people getting attacked successfully, stolen, getting scared or angry, and buying software to protect themselves from their insecure operating system.
[20:57.530 --> 21:03.050]  Semantic's entire business relies on new Viri being released into the general population.
[21:03.670 --> 21:10.070]  Their software is bloated, expensive, and subscription-based, and in my opinion, is just another way of taking dollars out of wallets.
[21:10.230 --> 21:13.610]  Well, thank you, Nathan, for being very clear as to how you feel on that.
[21:13.810 --> 21:19.830]  And of course, if you have any feelings or comments on anything we talk about, OTH at 2600.com is our email address.
[21:20.130 --> 21:24.530]  Speaking of this whole Snoop Dogg thing, you guys out there, I am rather disappointed.
[21:24.530 --> 21:32.850]  We haven't had a single submission of a rap song, a two-minute-long rap song that was maybe telling things with a little more perspective.
[21:33.130 --> 21:33.290]  What?
[21:33.330 --> 21:33.730]  Not one?
[21:33.910 --> 21:34.290]  Not one.
[21:34.390 --> 21:35.050]  Not a single one?
[21:35.110 --> 21:35.750]  Not a single one.
[21:36.450 --> 21:37.670]  What's going on out there?
[21:37.930 --> 21:40.310]  Are you saying nobody who knows how to rap is listening to us?
[21:40.590 --> 21:41.390]  I don't know.
[21:41.590 --> 21:47.150]  I'm saying if there is someone who knows how to rap who's listening to us, I think you need to demonstrate those skills with a Z.
[21:47.490 --> 21:48.490]  Bernie, what happened to your submission?
[21:50.510 --> 21:53.890]  We demoed it for us and it was so awesome right there on the street.
[21:54.070 --> 21:54.730]  I'm good with the lyrics.
[21:54.890 --> 21:56.350]  I think I can get the lyrics down.
[21:56.470 --> 21:56.930]  And the moves.
[21:57.010 --> 21:57.770]  You got the moves.
[21:58.110 --> 21:58.430]  Okay.
[21:58.650 --> 21:59.210]  Yeah, totally.
[21:59.510 --> 22:02.550]  Okay, please, the contest ends soon, doesn't it?
[22:02.750 --> 22:03.410]  I think it does.
[22:03.550 --> 22:04.030]  At the end of the month.
[22:04.190 --> 22:08.610]  So yeah, if you just have lyrics, send us the lyrics and maybe we'll find a rapper.
[22:08.810 --> 22:10.170]  We'll make something happen with them.
[22:10.410 --> 22:10.630]  Absolutely.
[22:11.170 --> 22:13.550]  Hey, speaking of things happening, something big is going to be happening.
[22:13.710 --> 22:16.810]  Not this weekend, but the weekend following right here in New York.
[22:17.090 --> 22:21.690]  I'm referring to the first ever in New York Maker Faire.
[22:22.190 --> 22:24.150]  There have been Maker Faires all over the place.
[22:24.310 --> 22:25.130]  They've been in the Bay Area.
[22:25.330 --> 22:26.350]  I went to one in Austin.
[22:26.570 --> 22:27.890]  There was one over in Japan.
[22:27.950 --> 22:29.850]  They're all over the place but never in New York.
[22:30.170 --> 22:32.330]  And they're coming to New York.
[22:32.510 --> 22:38.310]  And on the phone with us is Sherry Huss, the director of Maker Faire.
[22:38.490 --> 22:39.390]  Sherry, are you with us?
[22:40.010 --> 22:40.750]  Yes, I am.
[22:40.830 --> 22:41.290]  Hi, Emmanuel.
[22:41.410 --> 22:41.810]  How are you doing?
[22:41.970 --> 22:42.350]  Pretty good.
[22:42.410 --> 22:42.610]  Pretty good.
[22:42.650 --> 22:45.190]  So you're the director of all the Maker Faires everywhere?
[22:46.190 --> 22:52.150]  Well, basically, I'm the director of the kind of the Mothership Maker Faire, which is basically the one that came out of the Bay Area.
[22:52.810 --> 22:56.090]  The Austin, I've done that, Detroit, New York.
[22:56.310 --> 22:57.890]  So we're sort of the core team.
[22:58.210 --> 23:00.850]  We're starting to do mini Maker Faires.
[23:00.890 --> 23:04.850]  So we're creating kind of a mini Maker Faire kit, if you will.
[23:05.710 --> 23:07.070]  The demand is pretty great.
[23:07.070 --> 23:08.350]  So we want to put that out there.
[23:08.350 --> 23:15.430]  And then the Japan and the England Maker Faires are actually our O'Reilly offices that are doing their own version of a mini Maker Faire.
[23:15.790 --> 23:24.810]  And then Maker Faire Africa was actually part of some students and some folks that came out of MIT that came together and felt really strongly about taking it there.
[23:25.050 --> 23:25.870]  So... Wow.
[23:25.950 --> 23:27.910]  Of course, we're pushing it to get out there.
[23:28.110 --> 23:32.130]  So... So what part of the world have you not been part of yet?
[23:33.230 --> 23:34.130]  Well, there you go.
[23:34.270 --> 23:36.410]  I think that there's still... we still have a long way to go.
[23:36.410 --> 23:47.670]  And we're really pretty excited about bringing it to the East Coast and having it in New York, having it in Queens, being on the site of the Old World's Fairground is actually pretty exciting.
[23:47.790 --> 23:47.890]  Yeah.
[23:47.930 --> 23:57.590]  Now, that's something... that's something amazing that you just mentioned, because I remember as a little kid going to the World's Fair, right there on the fairgrounds, and really not ever doing anything there since.
[23:57.890 --> 24:03.070]  And wondering, you know, I passed by the globe, I passed by the structures, wonder when it's ever going to be refurbished.
[24:03.070 --> 24:06.150]  And this is the first thing I can think of that actually is happening there.
[24:06.650 --> 24:14.850]  No, I mean, I hope this is... this year we're containing... we're on the property, the site of the New York Hall of Science, about 21 acres.
[24:15.090 --> 24:17.570]  And we pretty much maxed it out.
[24:17.670 --> 24:20.130]  So we have over 415 acre entries.
[24:20.430 --> 24:23.870]  But the great part about it is, hey, let's take over that whole area.
[24:23.870 --> 24:26.150]  We can actually grow it in future years.
[24:26.290 --> 24:27.190]  We can spill out.
[24:27.290 --> 24:28.990]  It's a beautiful piece of property there.
[24:30.210 --> 24:32.630]  The Men in Black Towers are out there.
[24:32.830 --> 24:33.090]  Yes.
[24:33.210 --> 24:35.070]  And there's a whole host of things.
[24:35.330 --> 24:40.370]  Even... I've had makers that say they'd like to do water, you know, kind of water crafts and water races.
[24:40.610 --> 24:42.930]  So I'd say it's ours to have if we want it.
[24:42.970 --> 24:44.650]  And I think that this is just the beginning.
[24:44.650 --> 24:56.130]  It's amazing because while we're seeing the death of our space for conferences, namely the Hotel Pennsylvania, what you guys are seeing is the birth of something huge and amazing and also a link to the past.
[24:56.550 --> 25:02.890]  And that would be so cool if, in fact, you did get control of that whole property and made it beautiful again.
[25:03.590 --> 25:06.610]  Well, you know, I think it's... I think anything's possible.
[25:06.830 --> 25:10.110]  I think that that's the beauty of Maker Faire and the spirit of the people that come.
[25:10.670 --> 25:12.830]  We actually even have a couple coincidences.
[25:13.070 --> 25:19.590]  I don't know if your audience knows Diana Eng, who's a bit of a fashionista, but kind of a tech geek as well.
[25:19.870 --> 25:30.910]  And her mother was in a fashion show as a child model in the 1964 World's Fair at Maker Faire as part of the end of Fashion Week.
[25:30.910 --> 25:38.270]  And, of course, we're pushing it a little bit, but we're having a full-blown fashion show with Architek as sort of the backdrop.
[25:38.270 --> 25:49.230]  And we can talk about Architek, but it's totally cool that we have this fashion nerd doing a high-tech, conductive material fashion show in the Great Hall, which is an incredible building.
[25:50.010 --> 25:51.630]  You'll have to...guys will have to come and check it out.
[25:51.710 --> 25:53.170]  It's this amazing blue glass.
[25:54.170 --> 25:54.610]  Wow.
[25:54.610 --> 25:59.930]  I can't even comprehend the dollars that went into building the old World's Fair infrastructure there.
[26:00.350 --> 26:08.190]  But there's some really nice parallels, and I think it definitely embodies sort of our culture, everything from tech to fashion.
[26:08.630 --> 26:10.370]  And I'm kind of rounding it out for Diana.
[26:10.370 --> 26:12.010]  She's a ham radio operator, too.
[26:12.530 --> 26:13.110]  Oh, great.
[26:13.250 --> 26:13.670]  There you go.
[26:13.890 --> 26:16.090]  Yeah, I'm definitely familiar with Diana's work.
[26:16.130 --> 26:19.470]  She's done some great stuff for Make, and I think she works with Resistor, too, here in the city.
[26:20.170 --> 26:20.930]  She does.
[26:21.090 --> 26:22.710]  Yeah, and there's some great stuff.
[26:23.210 --> 26:25.750]  How did you get involved with the Hall of Science?
[26:25.810 --> 26:26.590]  How did you get them involved?
[26:26.670 --> 26:27.070]  Was that difficult?
[26:27.910 --> 26:39.110]  Well, the interesting thing about the Hall of Science is that we've, you know, they definitely kind of embody the same spirit that Make does, and they're doing really great things for kids, especially getting them turned on to science.
[26:39.910 --> 26:48.830]  Eric Siegel, who's their chief content officer, had been talking to us for a while about kind of getting together, and he was a chief advocate of us coming to New York.
[26:49.850 --> 26:53.230]  And we started talking, and he never really pushed the Hall of Science.
[26:53.230 --> 26:54.530]  We looked at other properties.
[26:54.910 --> 26:59.690]  You know, we pretty much ruled out the obvious, like, Javits Center, not going to work.
[27:00.590 --> 27:03.870]  You know, we went and looked at Liberty Science Center.
[27:04.110 --> 27:06.250]  Most New Yorkers said, we're not going to New Jersey.
[27:06.590 --> 27:12.050]  We looked at Floyd Bennett Field, kind of far out, no public transportation.
[27:12.690 --> 27:19.410]  We looked at Governor's Island, transportation's a problem, kind of a great space, can't go in buildings.
[27:19.910 --> 27:23.310]  And then we started, like, really sort of saying, now, wait a minute, we're makers.
[27:23.930 --> 27:25.390]  We see the potential here.
[27:25.630 --> 27:26.990]  We like Queens.
[27:27.530 --> 27:32.590]  You can, I mean, and again, getting around, there's the 7 train that comes right out of Manhattan.
[27:33.290 --> 27:35.190]  People definitely know where Queens is.
[27:35.390 --> 27:39.430]  I don't know how many people drive by it pretty frequently going to and from JFK and the airport.
[27:40.050 --> 27:50.390]  So it started, the more we looked at it and saw potential, and then we saw the folks that run the Hall of Science not only share the same spirit that we do and how we approach and see things.
[27:50.790 --> 27:54.590]  I mean, in other words, they're letting us, you know, take over the property.
[27:54.830 --> 27:57.470]  I mean, literally, we're doing things that have never been done there before.
[27:58.390 --> 28:01.050]  How many people do you think might show up to this thing?
[28:01.570 --> 28:03.110]  You know, good question.
[28:03.230 --> 28:03.950]  Always a good question.
[28:04.110 --> 28:08.990]  You know, the marketing answer is probably around $40,000, $45,000.
[28:09.250 --> 28:16.350]  The conservative answer, what I'm giving our food truck vendors is, like, I think $15,000 to $20,000 on Saturday.
[28:16.530 --> 28:19.110]  It's $12,000 to $15,000 on Sunday.
[28:19.390 --> 28:27.150]  But, you know, it's New York, and it's a pretty major population, you know, base that we're drawing from.
[28:27.150 --> 28:33.390]  And there's a lot of amazing press and PR, and the great thing about Maker Faire is we touch so many communities.
[28:33.790 --> 28:34.630]  Who knows?
[28:34.790 --> 28:45.990]  But really, I'll tell you, it almost doesn't even matter, because once the people come and things start happening and it starts becoming alive, everyone's just, you know, completely engaged.
[28:46.210 --> 28:51.550]  But if I had to call it, I'd say it's probably somewhere, you know, about $25,000, $30,000 and possibly more.
[28:52.770 --> 28:53.770]  That's pretty good.
[28:54.450 --> 28:55.010]  Go ahead.
[28:55.150 --> 28:55.690]  Oh, that's great.
[28:55.870 --> 28:57.310]  Year one Maker Faire in the Bay Area.
[28:57.310 --> 29:01.190]  We thought if we got a few thousand over the weekend, we'd be thrilled, and we got $20,000.
[29:01.430 --> 29:02.710]  So, who knows?
[29:02.970 --> 29:03.250]  Wow.
[29:03.510 --> 29:04.710]  That's awesome.
[29:04.950 --> 29:10.390]  Now, it's taking place, not this Saturday coming up, the Saturday the 25th and Sunday the 26th, correct?
[29:11.090 --> 29:11.850]  That is correct.
[29:12.150 --> 29:12.350]  All right.
[29:12.410 --> 29:13.630]  And what time does it begin?
[29:14.370 --> 29:14.930]  You got it.
[29:14.930 --> 29:18.650]  It's 10 to 7 on Saturday and 10 to 6 on Sunday.
[29:18.650 --> 29:27.530]  And for people coming in, if you're driving in, you can check the website, but Citi Field is going to be a place to park cars and will shuttle people over.
[29:27.850 --> 29:34.190]  If you're commuting in, taking the 7 train, get off at the 111th Street exit, and you can walk about four or five blocks.
[29:34.830 --> 29:40.790]  And if you're biking, we're definitely trying to promote the alternative transportation area.
[29:40.790 --> 29:45.810]  We will have kind of a bike parking area as well, and we'd like to grow that in the future, too.
[29:45.810 --> 29:52.130]  Now, can you tell us, and our listeners who might not know, what comprises a maker?
[29:52.290 --> 29:55.190]  What types of people get involved in events like this?
[29:55.930 --> 29:56.250]  Yeah.
[29:56.810 --> 29:58.790]  You know, Maker Faire is...
[29:59.310 --> 30:02.930]  And obviously, probably your audience definitely knows that Maker Faire grew out of make.
[30:03.230 --> 30:05.470]  And make was really...
[30:05.470 --> 30:16.750]  It was really kind of, when we put it together, the goal of the event was to bring makers together, to have kind of an annual celebration or a festival, if you will, of making, to give makers a deadline.
[30:16.810 --> 30:21.750]  And I think you even know it was here with your conference, with the Hope Conference.
[30:22.050 --> 30:27.050]  It's kind of great to get together and meet people and see what cool things they're doing.
[30:27.350 --> 30:27.570]  Definitely.
[30:27.570 --> 30:37.990]  So, we definitely have a tech base, and I think being part of Make Magazine, the one thing that I'll say is the common language of all of our makers is technology.
[30:38.390 --> 30:47.450]  They may not have a high-tech project or thing that they're working on, but they definitely use technology to share it, to find their community.
[30:47.450 --> 31:00.010]  So, you'll find crafters, you'll find, you know, lost arts folks that are doing cool things, like Kaleidian photography, or learning how to kind of make a whistle, a wooden whistle.
[31:00.870 --> 31:09.550]  Or you'll find groups that are pretty darn exciting, like the Madagascar Institute, which, if your audience doesn't know them, you're definitely going to be thrilled.
[31:09.910 --> 31:13.190]  They're going to be doing chariot races, and they have a call-out right now.
[31:13.190 --> 31:21.790]  So, if there's any of your audience and listeners that want to create a chariot and participate in a chariot race, check out Madagascar Institute.
[31:22.010 --> 31:26.250]  You see, we've tried to have the chariot races in Hotel Pennsylvania, but we just don't have the space.
[31:26.410 --> 31:27.950]  It's good that you guys have the outdoors.
[31:28.730 --> 31:29.470]  There you go.
[31:29.610 --> 31:30.810]  Well, hey, create an entry.
[31:31.050 --> 31:32.230]  I think everyone would love that.
[31:32.530 --> 31:34.190]  But basically, we touch...
[31:34.190 --> 31:37.890]  You know, I almost say we're sort of the new, modern county fair.
[31:38.250 --> 31:39.550]  We have food makers.
[31:39.550 --> 31:41.410]  We have people that are interested in sustainability.
[31:41.870 --> 31:42.870]  We have hackers.
[31:43.250 --> 31:45.530]  We have a lot of hackerspaces.
[31:46.270 --> 31:48.670]  We have, I mean, the MakerBot, the 3D printing.
[31:48.710 --> 31:50.090]  We have a 3D printing village.
[31:50.170 --> 31:51.230]  We have technology.
[31:51.330 --> 31:52.830]  We have Martha Stewart.
[31:53.170 --> 31:55.190]  I mean, we have PopSci.
[31:55.350 --> 31:56.170]  We have PopMechanics.
[31:56.270 --> 31:56.790]  Well, well, hold on a second.
[31:56.930 --> 31:58.190]  What do you mean you have Martha Stewart?
[31:59.470 --> 32:00.470]  Martha Stewart, folks.
[32:00.510 --> 32:03.750]  I don't know if Martha's coming or not, but something tells me...
[32:03.750 --> 32:05.630]  I think she's kind of interested in what we're doing.
[32:05.830 --> 32:06.190]  Wow.
[32:06.650 --> 32:08.870]  Martha Stewart's been a great partner.
[32:08.870 --> 32:10.890]  They like what we're doing.
[32:11.310 --> 32:13.350]  They're going to be having a...
[32:14.070 --> 32:20.290]  They're bringing the pages of their October magazine to life, which I think the theme is the Cabinet of Curiosities.
[32:20.650 --> 32:22.670]  So they'll have kind of crafty things.
[32:22.770 --> 32:24.070]  I think they have a bone table.
[32:24.850 --> 32:27.750]  There's a cupcake kind of decorating thing with Halloween.
[32:27.950 --> 32:31.050]  You know, a high holiday for a Martha Stewart audience is Halloween.
[32:31.050 --> 32:35.310]  So it's kind of a great thing that they're doing, and I'll be celebrating there.
[32:35.470 --> 32:44.370]  But the point is, is that we pull together people from all different walks of life that have a passion about making and creating.
[32:44.790 --> 32:46.750]  And it's multi-generational.
[32:46.890 --> 32:48.470]  It's across the board.
[32:48.470 --> 32:52.270]  It's just people that care and are engaged.
[32:52.650 --> 32:55.010]  And I think that that's the beauty of Maker Faire.
[32:55.010 --> 33:00.510]  Now, we've had one of the leading makers, Mitch Altman, in our studio many times talking about these things.
[33:00.710 --> 33:01.130]  I'm sure...
[33:01.130 --> 33:03.930]  I don't know if he's going to be at this one, but he's been at many Maker Faires.
[33:05.170 --> 33:05.570]  Yes.
[33:05.790 --> 33:06.390]  No, he...
[33:06.390 --> 33:11.150]  Actually, I don't believe that Mitch is going to be able to make it to this time, but definitely the spirit of Mitch is there.
[33:11.350 --> 33:14.610]  And you'll see some of Mitch's protégés there.
[33:14.810 --> 33:15.570]  We'll be doing...
[33:15.570 --> 33:22.050]  For those that aren't as tech-savvy as your audience, we'll be doing the Learn to Solder exercise Maker Shed.
[33:22.050 --> 33:22.530]  Uh-huh.
[33:22.670 --> 33:23.430]  We have...
[33:23.430 --> 33:24.890]  I think Brie Pettis is...
[33:24.890 --> 33:25.670]  And I don't want to...
[33:25.670 --> 33:31.530]  With MakerBot Industries, I think they're going to have some crazy number of MakerBots just pumping stuff out.
[33:31.690 --> 33:31.810]  Wow.
[33:31.810 --> 33:32.470]  Like maybe 30.
[33:32.890 --> 33:33.290]  That's...
[33:33.290 --> 33:33.810]  I don't know if I'm going to...
[33:33.810 --> 33:35.950]  If you've never seen a Maker...
[33:36.850 --> 33:37.810]  Wait, what was it again?
[33:38.230 --> 33:38.670]  The...
[33:38.670 --> 33:39.210]  The Bot.
[33:39.430 --> 33:40.090]  The MakerBots, yeah.
[33:40.210 --> 33:41.170]  All these Maker things.
[33:41.570 --> 33:44.550]  The MakerBots, if you've never seen them in action, they're something to behold.
[33:45.210 --> 33:46.950]  Yeah, so he's going to push the limits.
[33:47.290 --> 33:49.090]  But then we have people like...
[33:49.090 --> 33:52.030]  We have Jules Pieri, who is the founder of the...
[33:52.030 --> 33:52.830]  The Daily Gromit.
[33:53.050 --> 33:57.250]  And she's going to be doing a little presentation on citizen commerce.
[33:57.750 --> 34:04.430]  We have Perry Chen, who is the founder of Kickstarter, who's going to be on a mesh panel with Lisa Gamsky.
[34:04.510 --> 34:05.910]  And it's going to do a Kickstarter 101.
[34:06.330 --> 34:08.970]  And if your audience doesn't know about Kickstarter, check it out.
[34:09.030 --> 34:10.090]  It's a way to...
[34:10.090 --> 34:12.890]  A pretty cool way to fund a project.
[34:13.350 --> 34:14.190]  Pretty much...
[34:14.190 --> 34:15.270]  You've got 90 days.
[34:15.270 --> 34:18.230]  You go online and you set a goal and you raise funds.
[34:18.570 --> 34:20.130]  If you hit that number, you get the funds.
[34:20.130 --> 34:21.550]  If you don't...
[34:23.610 --> 34:28.230]  Sherry, what is the website people can go to to get more information about Maker Faire coming up?
[34:28.870 --> 34:29.430]  You bet.
[34:29.550 --> 34:30.910]  It's MakerFaire.com.
[34:31.010 --> 34:33.970]  And that's M-A-K-E-R-F-A-I-R-E.
[34:34.830 --> 34:35.230]  Okay.
[34:35.270 --> 34:36.950]  And that has information about New York.
[34:36.950 --> 34:38.930]  And I imagine all the other places that there'll be Maker Faires.
[34:39.790 --> 34:40.190]  Exactly.
[34:40.190 --> 34:42.890]  What other places are on the list so far?
[34:43.610 --> 34:50.430]  Well, I mean, the three that we're pushing, obviously, are we just finished Detroit, which was a very interesting event.
[34:50.530 --> 34:53.950]  And I think we'll be back there next year in the Bay Area.
[34:54.310 --> 34:56.550]  There are a couple of mini Maker Faires coming up.
[34:56.690 --> 34:59.990]  Someone from Ottawa just contacted me, and I think theirs is in November.
[35:00.270 --> 35:03.430]  We have one in Oakland that's an East Bay mini Maker Faire.
[35:03.430 --> 35:09.430]  And when I get back from Bay Area Maker Faires, I have probably over 200 requests for people that want to do them.
[35:10.070 --> 35:15.450]  We're just trying to get better at coming up again with kind of a kit-in-a-box and a way to let people do it.
[35:15.650 --> 35:16.010]  Uh-huh.
[35:16.130 --> 35:17.150]  Well, what's involved?
[35:17.150 --> 35:20.530]  What's involved in doing one, if somebody is interested in making a mini Maker Faire?
[35:21.110 --> 35:23.990]  Yeah, you know, that's kind of what we're doing right now.
[35:24.130 --> 35:24.990]  We're putting that together.
[35:24.990 --> 35:26.430]  It's really someone that's...
[35:26.430 --> 35:31.030]  It's like one or two people in a community that probably have a place to hold it.
[35:31.030 --> 35:34.490]  You know, a church, a school, a business.
[35:34.850 --> 35:38.010]  And really, it's, you know, kind of recruiting some makers.
[35:38.310 --> 35:41.610]  What we'll do is basically we just want to know that you're doing it.
[35:41.730 --> 35:43.570]  We've got a form that you can fill out.
[35:44.790 --> 35:48.930]  And we'll have...we'll create a logo for you so we have some consistency in branding.
[35:49.830 --> 35:53.210]  We're going to try to actually have tools for people down the road.
[35:53.350 --> 35:57.450]  But right now, it's kind of people just want to make and create.
[35:57.450 --> 36:00.130]  And we kind of, you know, help them get started.
[36:00.130 --> 36:01.490]  And then they run with it.
[36:01.770 --> 36:08.010]  We have a wiki that we encourage them to put up any kind of shared learning to share with the community.
[36:08.290 --> 36:15.690]  A couple successful mini Maker Fairs have been, obviously, the one in Providence, the Maker Faire Rhode Island.
[36:15.930 --> 36:17.350]  We have one in North Carolina.
[36:17.670 --> 36:19.930]  We did Ann Arbor, the A2 Geeks.
[36:19.990 --> 36:21.130]  I think they're on their second...
[36:21.130 --> 36:24.150]  They've completed two, the Ann Arbor Mini Maker Faire.
[36:24.150 --> 36:26.730]  So it's really...and there was one in Kansas City.
[36:27.710 --> 36:31.910]  It's really kind of a community that just says, this is important, and we want to make it happen.
[36:32.770 --> 36:35.170]  Now, Sherry, here's a big one for you.
[36:36.270 --> 36:41.010]  For however many listeners we may have who are unfamiliar with the term, what would you say is a maker?
[36:42.450 --> 36:47.330]  You know, a maker is anyone that does something.
[36:48.090 --> 37:07.930]  The one great thing I like about makers and the term maker is you could be a food maker, you could actually have a product, but you have a sense or a spirit about you that you would rather kind of build, create, find, and, you know, develop versus going out and buying and consuming.
[37:08.870 --> 37:24.410]  So it's, you know, there was one, I think it was Jeffrey or Jillian from Because We Can, which is a group that does CNC printing stuff in the Bay Area, and they said, you know, there's feelings around or, you know, what do I want to say?
[37:25.210 --> 37:40.910]  You know, for someone to say I'm an artist, or I'm an architect, or I'm an engineer, there, you know, it meant that you probably went through a certain, you know, a certain course or path, and, but to be a maker, actually, you know, really, it's kind of that you're,
[37:40.910 --> 37:43.910]  you're embodying or embracing the DIY spirit.
[37:44.430 --> 37:49.430]  So you're resourceful, you're, you know, you like to put things together, you connect the dots.
[37:49.830 --> 37:53.390]  It really is whatever you want it to be, and it's not very pretentious.
[37:53.550 --> 37:56.610]  So it seems to, it seems to work with a lot of people.
[37:56.810 --> 38:00.330]  How did this, this movement become so big?
[38:00.330 --> 38:10.170]  I remember when Make Magazine started a few years ago, or maybe it's more than a few years ago, but it just seems to have mushroomed and you're getting tens of thousands of people showing up at these events.
[38:10.170 --> 38:12.770]  So that means that the interest has always been out there someplace.
[38:13.010 --> 38:14.810]  But what is it that that has pushed it?
[38:15.550 --> 38:17.570]  You know, I think that you hit the nail on the head.
[38:17.710 --> 38:25.810]  I think that, that basically, these folks and these makers have existed, but they've, they've been in their own groups or worlds.
[38:26.090 --> 38:37.870]  So what we're, what we've been able to do is sort of showcase and provide these, these makers with a, with a venue and say, what you do is cool, and you should be talking about it.
[38:37.870 --> 38:40.490]  And, and, and, you know, we want to make makers.
[38:40.710 --> 38:42.270]  So that's why we're doing Maker Faire.
[38:42.410 --> 38:44.190]  And that's what we're, you know, that's my goal.
[38:45.070 --> 38:46.770]  But I think that they've always been there.
[38:46.850 --> 38:53.410]  And I think it's, I think you look at the economy kind of tanking and people saying, you know, reevaluating what's important to them.
[38:53.610 --> 38:55.290]  I think people lost jobs.
[38:55.470 --> 39:01.270]  They're saying, you know, now's the time for me to do what I really want to do and, and, and, and evaluate things.
[39:01.270 --> 39:06.170]  And I think that, that people get a great satisfaction out of making things and sharing things.
[39:06.430 --> 39:10.710]  And so I just think it's maybe our time.
[39:10.890 --> 39:14.790]  And I can tell you, there's many days that I feel like there aren't enough people that know what it is.
[39:15.110 --> 39:18.130]  So we feel like we've been kind of pushing the rock up the hill.
[39:18.850 --> 39:20.830]  But I think it's, it's starting to happen.
[39:20.990 --> 39:24.490]  And the great thing about makers are they're inclusive.
[39:24.850 --> 39:26.350]  They're, you know, they're open source.
[39:26.510 --> 39:27.110]  They share.
[39:27.110 --> 39:27.770]  They share.
[39:27.770 --> 39:28.770]  The currency is ideas.
[39:28.770 --> 39:29.810]  It's not dollars.
[39:30.150 --> 39:32.350]  And that's pretty refreshing, I think.
[39:32.570 --> 39:36.630]  What, what do you see as a relationship between the hacker community and the maker community?
[39:36.690 --> 39:38.070]  You think there, there are many similarities?
[39:38.950 --> 39:40.050]  You know, I think so.
[39:40.190 --> 39:54.950]  I actually think that, um, I think that, that, that, you know, maybe the hacker community becomes maybe a little bit more of the, the professional or, you know, the more serious type groups that actually are, are out there tinkering and kind of pushing the envelope.
[39:55.090 --> 39:56.070]  Or the more dark side.
[39:57.110 --> 39:57.290]  Yeah.
[39:57.530 --> 40:04.770]  Well, not dark side, but, you know, like really more, you know, more engaged than as sort of a passive hobby.
[40:04.970 --> 40:07.130]  It's maybe more embodied as a lifestyle.
[40:07.870 --> 40:17.030]  Um, and I think that, that the hacker community actually, again, is also in front of even the maker community pushing the, you know, the rock up the hill here for everyone.
[40:17.030 --> 40:26.170]  But I think that the hacker community is, and the maker communities, um, uh, you know, kind of actually coexist incredibly well.
[40:26.170 --> 40:30.570]  And I think that in many cases, we love seeing the hacker spaces.
[40:30.810 --> 40:36.470]  I mean, we've, we've got a whole hacker area and have different hacker groups coming to, um, to New York.
[40:36.470 --> 40:41.230]  We saw a major proliferation of hacker spaces in Detroit as well.
[40:41.490 --> 40:46.130]  So, two or three, I mean, Omnicorp that actually had started.
[40:46.130 --> 40:50.550]  Jeff Sturgis, who came out of NYC Resistor, moved from Brooklyn to, to Detroit.
[40:50.550 --> 41:07.310]  I-3 Detroit, we saw some really cool things that the pumping station one, um, put together, which were the, um, the, the little, the, um, power, power wheel, um, drag race series, which was kind of fun.
[41:07.670 --> 41:25.410]  So, I actually think that, you know, probably the hacker spaces tend to be a bit more edgy, a bit more out there, maybe pushing the envelope, but actually kind of creating, you know, um, a, a great, um, you know, resonance for all the other groups to kind of keep going forward,
[41:25.550 --> 41:25.610]  too.
[41:25.870 --> 41:38.350]  And it really, uh, adds some, some positivity to the, to the term, hacking, making it, uh, not so much the mass media definition, but more the, uh, exploring, creating, experimenting, which is what it's always been about.
[41:38.910 --> 41:40.130]  Well, I, oh, absolutely.
[41:40.270 --> 41:48.730]  And I think that even with maker fear, that tends to be, you know, maybe, again, we're, in some circles, we're pretty far out there, but the reality is we're pretty mainstream.
[41:48.730 --> 41:55.050]  I mean, there's nothing that we're doing that's really too far out there, again, just showcasing what people are doing.
[41:55.230 --> 41:55.450]  Right.
[41:55.570 --> 42:01.530]  But I actually think that we're, we're a venue that, um, we can actually showcase hacker spaces.
[42:01.950 --> 42:11.090]  And I'll tell you, when those little kids see what some of the people are doing, uh, you know, I can tell you we changed a lot of folks, a lot of little kids' lives in Detroit, for sure.
[42:11.230 --> 42:17.830]  Yeah, I've seen that, and I've heard Mitch describe it to me when he teaches people how to solder the, the expression on their faces when you know you've, you've reached them.
[42:17.830 --> 42:29.110]  Um, and I think it's just, it's, it's, um, it's amazing, the synchronicity that you guys are coming to the world's fair site, because I remember as a little kid myself, having that same feeling, seeing all the amazing technology that was ahead.
[42:29.110 --> 42:29.850]  But you know what?
[42:29.850 --> 42:30.870]  We never actually got it.
[42:31.510 --> 42:32.930]  We never got the picture phones.
[42:33.010 --> 42:33.790]  I remember playing with those.
[42:34.030 --> 42:36.230]  But, uh, you're in the perfect place for this.
[42:36.330 --> 42:39.510]  But one question that, uh, I think maybe you've been dancing around a little bit.
[42:39.570 --> 42:40.610]  What happens if it rains?
[42:42.530 --> 42:43.870]  Oh, gosh, I don't know.
[42:44.030 --> 42:44.490]  I mean...
[42:44.490 --> 42:46.730]  I mean, there are indoor places, right?
[42:47.270 --> 42:48.690]  Well, no, we have a lot of tents.
[42:48.870 --> 42:52.290]  We have more tents than, um, than you, you'd probably want us to have.
[42:52.450 --> 42:57.130]  But, uh, you know, I think that, I think that we're makers, and we'll figure it out.
[42:57.270 --> 43:02.390]  And I think that, um, yeah, it's a question nobody wants to ask.
[43:02.690 --> 43:09.030]  Well, I, no, I think, I think you answered it, because, uh, well, at the Dutch hacker camps, for instance, it always rains at some point.
[43:09.530 --> 43:10.890]  And, uh, we make do.
[43:11.030 --> 43:11.710]  We figure it out.
[43:11.870 --> 43:15.110]  We, we might get a little bit wet, or we'll just go inside and, and rebuild something.
[43:15.250 --> 43:16.230]  But, as you say, they're makers.
[43:16.410 --> 43:17.210]  They're, they'll figure it out.
[43:17.370 --> 43:23.050]  Yeah, I, I think, I have to say, and I've worked on, I mean, my first event ever was Java 1 in 1996.
[43:23.870 --> 43:40.070]  And I'll tell you, um, this event is difficult in the sense that it's, it's, um, the team here does amazing things by actually, you know, placing all these, you know, 450 maker groups and making sure that, that they're curated and they're in the right place.
[43:40.230 --> 43:42.550]  But I got to tell you, everyone is so appreciative.
[43:42.930 --> 43:48.670]  Um, there really is, from sponsors to makers to attendees, everyone is thrilled.
[43:48.670 --> 43:50.910]  And it's a, it's a group of people you want to be around.
[43:50.910 --> 43:53.790]  Like, nobody is complaining, they just figure it out.
[43:53.950 --> 43:57.190]  And so, I think if it rains, we'll figure it out.
[43:57.350 --> 44:03.110]  And, you know, it may mean that some people won't be there, but I really believe that the energy and spirit's there.
[44:03.330 --> 44:05.030]  Of course, I'll do electronic stuff.
[44:05.070 --> 44:06.730]  We've got a lot of electronic stuff inside.
[44:07.210 --> 44:12.470]  We've got, you know, we've got as many plans as we can with sidewalls on tents and things like that.
[44:12.910 --> 44:17.010]  But, um, I'm hoping that we don't have to actually answer that question.
[44:17.330 --> 44:17.970]  So, well, good.
[44:17.970 --> 44:17.990]  Good.
[44:18.510 --> 44:23.390]  Now, apart from actually just attending, are there any activities people can, can still get involved in?
[44:23.450 --> 44:24.750]  I know it's very late in the game at this point.
[44:25.910 --> 44:27.010]  Well, let's see.
[44:27.250 --> 44:34.350]  I would say, when attending is actually pretty great, because the one thing, if your audience hasn't been to a Maker Faire, it's definitely hands-on.
[44:34.350 --> 44:44.810]  So, you'll be able to sit down and make something, you'll be able to solder, you'll be able to ride a pedal power bike rodeo ride, you'll be able to experience, which is really cool.
[44:44.810 --> 44:51.230]  If, um, there's always volunteering, and volunteers, we actually treat our volunteers incredibly well.
[44:51.430 --> 44:52.990]  I think it's for four hours.
[44:53.170 --> 44:55.610]  You get a free, um, ticket to Maker Faire.
[44:56.170 --> 45:02.350]  And, you know, sometimes we usually have volunteers that come and never, that they like hanging out with the crew and being part of it.
[45:02.350 --> 45:07.850]  So, if you're interested in volunteering, it's nyvolunteersatmakerfair.com.
[45:08.350 --> 45:23.550]  If you want more info, um, you know, we've actually had, it's a little-known fact, but I'm sure your, your group, your audience knows about Tech Shop, which is one of the, kind of, the community-based workshops that grew out of Maker Faire in the Bay Area.
[45:23.870 --> 45:30.730]  But Jim Newton, year one at Maker Faire, was so passionate, he had missed the deadline, he didn't want to call us before.
[45:30.730 --> 45:43.230]  He showed up on-site with an Army truck and a mannequin, kind of a, a dummy model, and a story that he said, I didn't get my application in, but I really want to be here, I've got an idea, I want to float it.
[45:43.630 --> 45:47.990]  And Dale just said, okay, wait a minute, give us a few minutes, we're getting people settled.
[45:48.150 --> 45:58.910]  We brought them in, set them up, and, you know, um, if you can work with us, and even if there's something that's so great that should be at Maker Faire, and of course the production team would probably kill me.
[45:59.370 --> 46:03.590]  But, um, just, you know, just bring it, and we'll figure it out.
[46:04.170 --> 46:06.610]  And that address again, that email address, was what?
[46:07.390 --> 46:16.230]  Yeah, so basically, the main email address, uh, if you do nyinfo at makerfair.com, uh, we can get you, kind of, any general questions.
[46:16.550 --> 46:19.630]  And NY Volunteers, if you're interested in volunteering.
[46:19.810 --> 46:26.750]  And again, we love volunteers and are looking for them, so you get a cool shirt, you get to be part of it, and, uh, it's a good thing to do.
[46:26.750 --> 46:30.110]  And Maker Faire, of course, is spelled with an E at the end, just, uh...
[46:30.110 --> 46:30.470]  It is.
[46:30.610 --> 46:32.170]  Just in case people don't realize that.
[46:32.690 --> 46:34.730]  Well, Sherry, it's been, it's been great, uh, finding out about all this.
[46:34.790 --> 46:43.010]  I'm looking forward to it, uh, a week from this coming weekend, the 25th and 26th of, uh, September, uh, at the World's Fair Grounds, accessible by the No.
[46:43.090 --> 46:45.110]  7 train here in New York City.
[46:45.850 --> 46:50.550]  Um, any, um, any final words or things that you'd like for people to, uh, to contribute?
[46:51.730 --> 47:03.950]  I would say how you could really help us is if you can get the word out, um, invite different people, you know, folks that may not, um, normally understand what it is that you do as being a hacker.
[47:04.370 --> 47:11.990]  And I think that this is a great way for them to kind of get out and celebrate and, um, and, you know, and have a better understanding.
[47:11.990 --> 47:13.750]  And actually, they'll have a great time, I guarantee it.
[47:13.810 --> 47:15.170]  Yeah, it's a great time of year for this, too.
[47:15.170 --> 47:16.570]  It won't be, uh, hot and muggy.
[47:16.710 --> 47:17.590]  It'll be nice and pleasant.
[47:18.130 --> 47:21.330]  And, uh, all kinds of, uh, of cool people will show up.
[47:21.530 --> 47:23.310]  What, what took you guys so long to come to New York?
[47:24.570 --> 47:27.650]  Uh, you know, we actually wanted to, I don't know.
[47:27.770 --> 47:32.430]  I mean, we're figuring it out, but I think in the 0-9, the economy kind of tanked a little bit.
[47:32.570 --> 47:37.250]  So that, that gave us a chance to actually, uh, get our plans in place for this year.
[47:37.350 --> 47:39.490]  And really, it's been nonstop for our team.
[47:39.510 --> 47:44.630]  And we have a tiny team, but since January, it's been going and they've done an amazing job.
[47:44.630 --> 47:46.990]  So, everyone, everyone is excited.
[47:47.170 --> 47:48.390]  Our team is thrilled to be there.
[47:48.590 --> 47:50.410]  So, we're, we're looking forward to a great event.
[47:50.590 --> 47:50.790]  All right.
[47:50.850 --> 47:52.730]  Sherry Huss, Director of Maker Faire.
[47:53.110 --> 47:54.310]  Thanks so much for talking with us.
[47:54.330 --> 47:58.230]  Hopefully, we'll have some makers in the studio next week as we get closer to this event.
[47:58.230 --> 47:59.830]  Because it's really, uh, it's historical.
[48:00.090 --> 48:03.290]  It's, it's, it's definitely something monumental that, uh, we've never seen before here.
[48:04.130 --> 48:04.810]  That sounds great.
[48:04.870 --> 48:17.150]  And just, um, you know, we've got a whole other thing about Maker Faire is that there are some presentations in that, uh, uh, Chris Anderson from Wired is going to be speaking on Saturday at one o'clock if anyone wants to get out and see him.
[48:17.410 --> 48:23.210]  And the other thing to note is that we're also helping the Open Hardware, uh, Summit folks.
[48:23.350 --> 48:26.170]  I think it's openhardwaresummit.org.
[48:26.670 --> 48:32.050]  That'll, they'll be doing a conference there on Thursday, the 24th at the New York Hall of Science.
[48:32.290 --> 48:36.590]  So, if that's your thing and you haven't checked it out, I think it's a pretty cool event as well.
[48:37.150 --> 48:37.550]  Okay.
[48:37.750 --> 48:44.370]  Well, uh, we definitely look forward to, uh, to, to being there and, uh, having more people on the air next week talking about this and seeing how it, how it all goes.
[48:44.490 --> 48:46.710]  It's, uh, it's definitely going to be, uh, something.
[48:47.630 --> 48:48.430]  All right, Sherry, thanks.
[48:48.570 --> 48:49.010]  Thanks so much.
[48:49.090 --> 48:49.550]  Best of luck.
[48:50.430 --> 48:51.010]  Yeah, great.
[48:51.110 --> 48:51.870]  Look forward to being there.
[48:52.190 --> 48:52.430]  All right.
[48:52.450 --> 48:52.810]  Take care.
[48:53.570 --> 48:57.190]  Uh, Sherry, us from, uh, the, uh, Maker Faire people.
[48:57.390 --> 48:57.570]  Wow.
[48:57.910 --> 48:58.730]  I had no idea.
[48:58.890 --> 49:02.110]  I had no idea it was so big and, uh, involved and interesting.
[49:02.810 --> 49:04.450]  Uh, we have a couple minutes for phone calls.
[49:04.550 --> 49:07.570]  If people are out there, they want to talk about this or want to talk about anything else we discussed tonight.
[49:07.710 --> 49:10.630]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[49:10.630 --> 49:12.030]  Are you guys going to be at the Maker Faire?
[49:12.450 --> 49:14.350]  I'm, I'm definitely going to try and be at Maker Faire.
[49:14.510 --> 49:14.750]  Uh-huh.
[49:15.230 --> 49:15.390]  Yeah.
[49:15.390 --> 49:16.550]  It sounds fascinating.
[49:16.750 --> 49:21.010]  I've, I've heard people talk about Maker Faires, uh, elsewhere and always wish there was one in town.
[49:21.030 --> 49:31.350]  I'm just so enthused that that space is being used again because, wow, that, that's an incredible space in New York that has not been used for God knows how long, or at least not the outdoor part of it has been, has been used very much.
[49:31.610 --> 49:32.530]  Uh, Bernie, how about you?
[49:33.110 --> 49:33.530]  I'm going.
[49:33.710 --> 49:35.930]  Actually, some ham fests have been held there at the...
[49:35.930 --> 49:36.650]  Oh, have they?
[49:36.890 --> 49:40.530]  Ham radio flea markets have been held there at that space, which I thought was really apropos.
[49:40.630 --> 49:44.130]  But this is a perfect event for that space, as you noted.
[49:44.350 --> 49:45.490]  So it's, I'm really glad.
[49:45.510 --> 49:48.610]  It's going to be some great synergy and I'm going to be there on Sunday.
[49:48.810 --> 49:49.170]  All right.
[49:49.230 --> 49:51.630]  Let's take some phone calls in the, uh, brief time we have left.
[49:51.950 --> 49:52.650]  And good evening.
[49:52.810 --> 49:53.450]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:53.650 --> 49:56.130]  I just want to, uh, how you doing?
[49:56.230 --> 49:56.410]  Hi.
[49:56.470 --> 49:56.790]  Make it quick.
[49:56.830 --> 49:58.070]  I just want to tell you something.
[49:58.210 --> 49:59.650]  I'm a ham radio operator.
[49:59.890 --> 50:02.850]  I go, uh, twice a year to the ham fest there.
[50:03.170 --> 50:06.410]  And the ham radio club is being kicked out of the building.
[50:06.410 --> 50:15.110]  The Hall of Science is kicking out the Hall of Science radio club for some, I don't know what the reason is, but I just want to tell people and it's, it's outrageous.
[50:15.450 --> 50:18.070]  Was it a permanent thing or for, for just one event or?
[50:18.250 --> 50:19.530]  No, they're being kicked.
[50:19.650 --> 50:22.790]  They have a ham radio station inside the Hall of Science.
[50:22.970 --> 50:23.190]  Uh-huh.
[50:23.190 --> 50:25.950]  And apparently the Hall wants the room back.
[50:26.410 --> 50:33.530]  So the club is being, the club is still being allowed to have the ham fest on the grounds of the parking lot at the Hall of Science.
[50:33.910 --> 50:37.210]  But apparently the club has to find a new place to meet up.
[50:37.690 --> 50:38.050]  Interesting.
[50:38.330 --> 50:39.430]  Oh, well, uh...
[50:39.430 --> 50:39.910]  Not nice.
[50:40.110 --> 50:41.350]  No, that's, that's not nice.
[50:41.530 --> 50:43.470]  And, uh, hopefully we'll find out more facts about that.
[50:43.590 --> 50:43.970]  But, wow.
[50:44.470 --> 50:47.750]  Inside of two seconds, we have controversy involving the World's Fair site.
[50:47.770 --> 50:49.150]  Let's see what else we can find out.
[50:49.150 --> 50:49.470]  Good evening.
[50:49.570 --> 50:50.450]  You're on Off the Hook.
[50:52.030 --> 50:52.870]  Hello, speak up.
[50:52.870 --> 50:54.410]  Uh, whoops, gotta go.
[50:54.810 --> 50:55.070]  All right.
[50:55.390 --> 50:57.030]  I have no idea what that was all about.
[50:57.510 --> 50:58.110]  All right.
[50:58.130 --> 50:58.470]  Good evening.
[50:58.590 --> 50:59.290]  You're on Off the Hook.
[51:00.210 --> 51:00.850]  Go ahead.
[51:00.850 --> 51:01.030]  Okay.
[51:01.250 --> 51:02.950]  I didn't think I'd get through.
[51:03.090 --> 51:06.910]  I was listening to, I caught the in half of the Maker's Fair.
[51:07.150 --> 51:07.430]  Mm-hmm.
[51:07.790 --> 51:15.430]  I'm a, I'm a fairly new techie and I was just trying to get some more information about when that was and, um...
[51:15.430 --> 51:22.630]  Well, it's happening, uh, not this weekend, the weekend afterwards, the 25th and 26th in, uh, in, at the fairgrounds, World's Fair in Queens.
[51:23.150 --> 51:24.390]  In Flushing, New York.
[51:25.030 --> 51:25.410]  And, um...
[51:25.410 --> 51:27.650]  It's called World's Fair.
[51:28.030 --> 51:29.650]  Well, I'm, are you from New York?
[51:30.090 --> 51:31.630]  No, I'm actually from Connecticut.
[51:31.910 --> 51:31.930]  Oh.
[51:31.930 --> 51:33.350]  But it's only a train ride away.
[51:33.390 --> 51:37.890]  Yeah, well, you've probably seen, you've probably seen the globe with the rings around it and the two, uh, towers.
[51:38.510 --> 51:41.970]  Uh, but if you want more information, the website to go to is Maker Faire.
[51:42.130 --> 51:45.850]  It's M-A-K-E-R-F-A-I-R-E dot com.
[51:46.010 --> 51:51.150]  Don't forget that last E because that's, uh, that has all the, uh, uh, information on it.
[51:51.790 --> 51:52.770]  Um, okay.
[51:53.210 --> 51:56.250]  Um, let's see if we can, uh, squeeze in a couple more.
[51:56.330 --> 51:56.610]  Good evening.
[51:56.770 --> 51:57.530]  You're on Off the Hook.
[51:58.030 --> 51:58.570]  Oh, we smoke.
[51:58.650 --> 51:59.190]  I don't believe this.
[51:59.410 --> 52:00.490]  Uh, I gotta go.
[52:00.710 --> 52:00.910]  Bye.
[52:01.410 --> 52:01.810]  Okay.
[52:02.210 --> 52:04.730]  A lot of people suddenly getting called to, uh, to something else.
[52:04.830 --> 52:05.110]  Good evening.
[52:05.290 --> 52:06.170]  You're on Off the Hook.
[52:06.970 --> 52:07.270]  Hi.
[52:07.550 --> 52:07.730]  Hi.
[52:07.730 --> 52:13.790]  I'd like to, uh, talk about, uh, the electronic voting and why we shouldn't just go back to paper ballots.
[52:14.370 --> 52:14.730]  Okay.
[52:14.810 --> 52:16.570]  Well, we never were at paper ballots, I don't think.
[52:16.730 --> 52:17.550]  Not in New York, anyway.
[52:18.210 --> 52:19.510]  Well, not for a very long time.
[52:19.670 --> 52:19.850]  Uh-huh.
[52:19.850 --> 52:25.430]  But, I mean, with mechanical voting and electronic voting, the vote is really going into a black box.
[52:25.530 --> 52:26.910]  I mean, you can't really touch it.
[52:27.030 --> 52:27.750]  It's intangible.
[52:27.870 --> 52:28.070]  Yes.
[52:28.270 --> 52:28.670]  That's true.
[52:29.330 --> 52:37.130]  And, uh, you know, I think that, uh, precludes, you know, any kind of, uh, tracking and, you know, proper counting of the ballot.
[52:37.270 --> 52:43.430]  And I think that, uh, people would support going back to paper ballots who might be able to make a movement out of it.
[52:43.790 --> 52:44.090]  Uh-huh.
[52:44.230 --> 52:47.030]  Well, are there such, um, such moves to do this?
[52:47.090 --> 52:55.430]  I mean, we have, we have somewhat complex elections here where simply checking yes or no, uh, would get to be kind of nightmarish if it was all just done on paper.
[52:56.790 --> 52:57.590]  Well, that's true.
[52:57.730 --> 53:08.370]  I mean, uh, you know, the way we have, uh, voting districts and, uh, where we have tens of thousands of people voting in one district, you know, would be, uh, preclude, uh, some form of paper ballots.
[53:08.610 --> 53:23.430]  But I think that if we have a chance to, uh, discuss it and, you know, seek the truth that, uh, really any form of mechanical voting, uh, they, takes away your visibility of the, uh, actual ballot.
[53:23.830 --> 53:25.750]  Um, I just thought that was important.
[53:26.410 --> 53:41.710]  I, um, I just want to get one thing out, um, on that entire, uh, uh, issue that a lot of people bring up is a lot of people do, you know, uh, say they like paper or, you know, that it's so much more tangible, but that's ignoring the fact that once you put that paper into a box or whoever takes it,
[53:41.710 --> 53:47.010]  it's just as much of a black box as, uh, an electrical signal going off from some computer.
[53:47.150 --> 53:48.890]  You don't know who's taking it, where it's going.
[53:49.230 --> 53:53.870]  If, uh, the paper's being thrown out, burned, it's, it's literally...
[53:53.870 --> 53:56.830]  Or if more papers are being introduced that you don't see.
[53:56.970 --> 53:57.110]  Yeah, right.
[53:57.230 --> 54:09.490]  You know, it's, whether you're talking about paper, um, some mechanical device or completely electronic, at some point there, there's this area that we're not always completely sure of.
[54:09.710 --> 54:14.210]  Um, and it's, it's really a matter of building a very, uh, transparent system.
[54:14.690 --> 54:14.890]  Right.
[54:14.970 --> 54:23.950]  Well, what I'm suggesting is that, you know, currently with our balloting system, all the ballots are taken to some away place and counted, uh, down at the board of elections.
[54:24.310 --> 54:32.450]  Whereas in other countries, when they do have paper ballots, the ballots are counted at the polling place in openness and with transparency.
[54:32.910 --> 54:33.030]  Yeah.
[54:33.250 --> 54:43.970]  So, uh, you know, I feel that we've been subject to all sorts of, uh, manifestations and malfunctions of, uh, these electronic systems this past, uh, Tuesday.
[54:44.410 --> 54:46.530]  And they were, you know, kind of getting robbed.
[54:46.530 --> 54:52.690]  And, uh, I just felt that having paper ballots will be one step towards, uh, really being transparent.
[54:53.010 --> 54:53.350]  Okay.
[54:53.450 --> 54:54.050]  Well, thanks for the call.
[54:54.130 --> 54:58.010]  The discussion will certainly continue on, on this subject for quite some time and see if we can squeeze in one more.
[54:58.070 --> 54:58.370]  Good evening.
[54:58.470 --> 54:59.250]  You're on off the hook.
[55:00.070 --> 55:10.150]  Hey, um, I just want to say in my experience, um, from, uh, working a voting thing once and from what I've seen, it's the cops that take the ballots.
[55:10.690 --> 55:15.230]  Even, so even if we go back to the paper ballots, you know, you have that, but I still vote.
[55:15.390 --> 55:28.490]  Um, so for all of you out there that don't want to vote because you're feeling like it's a protest by not voting, um, I just want to say that like, um, you know, they probably view your non-vote as a vote for complacency.
[55:28.650 --> 55:33.330]  And the reason why I still vote is because somebody is counting my vote, even if they mess with it.
[55:33.550 --> 55:33.910]  Yeah.
[55:33.950 --> 55:39.430]  And if they are messing with it, there's more of a chance that they're going to be caught somehow, the more people that are out there watching.
[55:39.670 --> 55:40.850]  Thanks for that call.
[55:40.970 --> 55:43.650]  Thanks for the last word on our show tonight.
[55:43.850 --> 55:47.650]  We're going to be back next week with another action-packed edition of Off the Hook.
[55:48.090 --> 55:51.310]  Until then, Emmanuel for Off the Hook, see you then.
[55:51.450 --> 55:51.670]  Good night.
[55:52.310 --> 55:54.030]  Are you looking for the truth of foreign?
[56:01.480 --> 56:03.040]  What I want to give it up tonight?
[56:03.260 --> 56:06.180]  The world that circles around me could benefit from silence.
[56:06.600 --> 56:07.760]  This song is my enemy.
[56:08.100 --> 56:09.160]  Why shall I become it?
[56:09.360 --> 56:12.480]  Cradled by mystery and make-believe I am floating in the other night.
[56:12.700 --> 56:19.200]  Children which upon me, this man and his army are praying in their fortresses, making guns up steeples, insurgents of people.
[56:19.580 --> 56:25.020]  The Messiah is an immigrant detained at the border, severed from his trinity, his wife and his daughter.
[56:25.520 --> 56:29.760]  America the beautiful, not beheaded, hold down, Lynchburg throw down.
[56:29.760 --> 56:32.800]  It seems our favorite part has become our most fair future.
[56:33.060 --> 56:34.540]  Technology has failed us.
[56:34.780 --> 56:36.280]  Gunshots by computer!