[00:00.000 --> 00:05.940]  At 1.30 p.m., there will be a reception, followed by a presentation and book signing by Ms. Gottlieb Walker.
[00:06.180 --> 00:12.680]  That's Wednesday, November 10th, at Mega Evers College's S-Building, 1637 Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn.
[00:12.960 --> 00:17.160]  For more information, call 718-270-4935.
[00:17.500 --> 00:20.480]  That's 718-270-4935.
[00:23.960 --> 00:25.640]  Hello, Felipe Luciano here.
[00:25.780 --> 00:27.200]  You may know me as a...
[00:28.380 --> 00:32.900]  And the time is just about 7 p.m., time for another edition of Off the Hook.
[01:32.950 --> 01:34.330]  And a very good evening to you.
[01:34.530 --> 01:35.970]  The show is off the hook.
[01:36.110 --> 01:36.490]  Rob T.
[01:36.610 --> 01:37.730]  Firefly here with you in the studio.
[01:38.150 --> 01:40.030]  I am joined by Mike.
[01:40.310 --> 01:40.530]  Hi.
[01:41.190 --> 01:42.070]  And Dot Rhett.
[01:42.390 --> 01:42.550]  Hello.
[01:43.330 --> 01:45.850]  And on the phone, we should have Bernie S.
[01:46.330 --> 01:47.490]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[01:48.370 --> 01:49.950]  And do we have a manual on the phone?
[01:50.870 --> 01:51.270]  Yeah.
[01:51.590 --> 01:53.030]  Yeah, we've got a manual on the phone.
[01:53.210 --> 01:54.250]  What am I doing on the phone?
[01:54.470 --> 01:55.650]  Yeah, what are you doing on the phone?
[01:55.790 --> 01:57.070]  I'm gonna buy you a watch, a manual.
[01:57.730 --> 01:59.670]  Yeah, you know, I have a watch.
[01:59.810 --> 02:00.490]  Thank you very much, Mike.
[02:00.490 --> 02:01.550]  But here's the thing.
[02:01.790 --> 02:06.330]  I left 60 miles away from New York City at 3 o'clock in the afternoon.
[02:06.470 --> 02:07.310]  I'm still not here.
[02:07.510 --> 02:08.330]  Oh, I'm close.
[02:08.470 --> 02:08.970]  I'm getting close.
[02:09.130 --> 02:14.870]  But apparently today is some kind of holiday where everybody decides to drive really slowly and inconveniently.
[02:15.050 --> 02:17.890]  And it's taken me over four hours to get 60 miles.
[02:18.410 --> 02:19.690]  So I'm sorry about that.
[02:19.690 --> 02:27.930]  I have all my notes next to me, but I don't think I'm going to risk my life by opening up envelopes and reading things on the air while I'm driving.
[02:28.850 --> 02:35.090]  Suffice to say, though, I am getting close because I'm at that point on the FDR drive where there's an exit for the Brooklyn Bridge.
[02:35.250 --> 02:38.290]  That's only one lane, but everybody takes three lanes to use it.
[02:38.690 --> 02:42.190]  And the irony of that is I'm not going on that exit.
[02:42.190 --> 02:46.170]  So as soon as I pass that, I'll be able to go really fast and get there very soon.
[02:46.330 --> 02:47.270]  So enough about me.
[02:47.510 --> 02:48.390]  How are you guys?
[02:49.130 --> 02:49.730]  I'm well.
[02:50.970 --> 02:52.990]  You're not traveling by horseback or anything?
[02:53.930 --> 02:54.330]  No.
[02:54.550 --> 02:54.950]  No, I'm not.
[02:57.970 --> 03:01.810]  Bernie, I believe you said you had a news story that you wanted to share with us.
[03:02.130 --> 03:04.690]  Oh, well, I'm glad I'm in Philadelphia, not on a cruise ship.
[03:05.470 --> 03:06.350]  I'm glad, too.
[03:06.890 --> 03:09.130]  Cruise ships, I don't think they're really my thing.
[03:09.410 --> 03:12.910]  No, I can't imagine why anyone would want to spend time on a cruise ship, frankly.
[03:12.910 --> 03:14.030]  I want to get to where I'm going.
[03:14.310 --> 03:18.290]  I don't want my journey to be on a cruise ship.
[03:18.890 --> 03:19.910]  I'll tell you something, Bernie.
[03:19.970 --> 03:23.310]  I'd be better off on a cruise ship right now trying to get to New York City than on a car.
[03:25.830 --> 03:38.570]  Hey, did you hear that the Carnival Splendor cruise ship passengers, that's the ship that's stranded, I don't know, what, 50 miles off the coast of New Jersey or something, is a...
[03:38.570 --> 03:39.050]  New Jersey?
[03:39.570 --> 03:40.710]  Yeah, well, we're in California.
[03:41.250 --> 03:43.050]  Off of California, I'm sorry, wrong ocean.
[03:43.490 --> 03:45.550]  The same continent, it just had the wrong ocean.
[03:45.850 --> 03:47.030]  Six of them, half dozen of them.
[03:47.030 --> 03:49.030]  They're being fed spam.
[03:49.910 --> 03:54.730]  So the Carnival Cruise Cruise Line is spamming its customers right now.
[03:55.070 --> 03:56.710]  I heard they requested spam.
[03:57.370 --> 04:03.470]  Well, they didn't have any choice because all the engines went up in flames, so they have no refrigeration.
[04:03.610 --> 04:06.350]  If the engines go up in flames, you can only eat spam?
[04:06.990 --> 04:18.650]  Well, there was all... they had no... the food was spoiled, so the Coast Guard actually dropped, like, thousands of pounds of food onto the ship, and all they had was spam.
[04:18.950 --> 04:21.350]  They're force-feeding these people's spam.
[04:23.450 --> 04:24.350]  I love it.
[04:24.490 --> 04:26.050]  It's like a Monty Python sketch.
[04:26.310 --> 04:27.970]  It's very much so like that.
[04:28.370 --> 04:36.030]  Well, Emmanuel was speculating earlier, we were discussing, to have some fun with this, is we could try to call the Carnival Cruise Line to ship.
[04:36.190 --> 04:37.450]  I got the telephone number.
[04:37.650 --> 04:41.190]  There's a website I found called the dialacruise.com.
[04:42.710 --> 04:44.270]  And you go through the interesting menus.
[04:44.430 --> 04:51.530]  We may not want to go through all the final steps, because the final step requires you to pay something like $9 and change per minute.
[04:52.110 --> 04:53.850]  And you have to know the name of the passenger.
[04:54.090 --> 04:58.170]  But we could, like, go to the point where we enter a name of a passenger like John Smith.
[04:58.250 --> 04:59.210]  I have a question.
[04:59.350 --> 05:01.310]  What if you think you know the name of a passenger?
[05:01.310 --> 05:03.610]  And they try to find the passenger, but they can't.
[05:03.710 --> 05:04.430]  You have to pay for that.
[05:04.810 --> 05:08.570]  Well, I'm guessing it may be an automated system where you have to spell the passenger's name.
[05:10.350 --> 05:11.430]  Well, that could be fun.
[05:12.350 --> 05:13.590]  So, do you want to try that?
[05:13.690 --> 05:15.130]  What if the passenger's not in their room?
[05:15.150 --> 05:15.830]  Do you still have to pay?
[05:17.290 --> 05:18.370]  That's a really good question.
[05:18.450 --> 05:21.210]  I mean, whatever it costs a minute to leave voicemail.
[05:21.370 --> 05:22.190]  Really not a good deal.
[05:22.850 --> 05:25.090]  Well, I think we can get as close to...
[05:26.710 --> 05:29.050]  I think we can get pretty close without having to pay anything.
[05:29.050 --> 05:33.230]  It might be fun to hear what it sounds like to make a phone call through the In-Mar...
[05:33.230 --> 05:35.090]  It uses the In-Mar set...
[05:36.630 --> 05:38.750]  Is it an 800 number?
[05:39.330 --> 05:40.490]  No, it's actually...
[05:40.490 --> 05:40.790]  Well, yeah.
[05:40.970 --> 05:41.450]  Actually, no.
[05:41.610 --> 05:44.650]  Yes, it is an 800 number, or it's a 732 area code number.
[05:44.750 --> 05:45.350]  Your choice.
[05:45.730 --> 05:49.070]  I choose the 800 number, because we can no longer make long-distance phone calls.
[05:49.430 --> 05:51.250]  Oh, that's a WDI thing.
[05:51.410 --> 05:51.550]  Yes.
[05:52.550 --> 05:53.510]  Ah, okay.
[05:54.090 --> 05:55.470]  Hey, guys, guess what?
[05:55.550 --> 05:58.510]  Not only did I find parking on Wall Street, I found free parking on Wall Street.
[06:00.110 --> 06:02.250]  Well, I guess that's what we get for our tax dollars.
[06:02.530 --> 06:05.510]  Well, it's because it's so late that the parking meters have expired.
[06:06.330 --> 06:08.850]  Here's a toll-free number if you want to give it a call, Mike.
[06:10.030 --> 06:10.530]  Hold on.
[06:10.590 --> 06:12.210]  Let me write it down, yeah?
[06:14.270 --> 06:16.570]  If all our listeners call, will they overload the system?
[06:16.890 --> 06:17.610]  We should try it.
[06:17.830 --> 06:18.450]  We'll find out.
[06:18.870 --> 06:19.590]  Oh, exciting.
[06:20.970 --> 06:22.990]  Okay, it's actually 877.
[06:23.410 --> 06:23.750]  Uh-huh.
[06:24.790 --> 06:25.190]  225.
[06:25.730 --> 06:26.130]  Yeah.
[06:28.170 --> 06:28.570]  7447.
[06:29.410 --> 06:30.770]  All right, well, let's try it.
[06:31.730 --> 06:33.110]  I'm going to...
[06:33.110 --> 06:34.170]  Did we just say...
[06:34.170 --> 06:34.710]  I'm entering the building.
[06:34.830 --> 06:35.190]  I'm here.
[06:35.390 --> 06:36.010]  All right, oh.
[06:48.970 --> 06:50.230]  Something's supposed to happen now, right?
[06:50.410 --> 06:51.350]  Yeah, it takes a few seconds.
[06:51.390 --> 06:51.710]  Okay.
[06:52.110 --> 06:52.690]  You'll hear something.
[06:53.530 --> 06:54.910]  I just tried this a minute ago.
[06:56.850 --> 06:59.270]  I have to say, not the most exciting number I've ever called.
[06:59.270 --> 07:01.370]  Calling Maritime Telecommunications Network.
[07:01.550 --> 07:04.190]  You're sure to ship connection to the Carnival Cruise Line vessels.
[07:04.970 --> 07:08.410]  This service is for contacting passengers aboard Carnival Vessels only.
[07:08.850 --> 07:13.290]  In order to complete this call, you will need the name of the ship and the party you are trying to reach.
[07:13.570 --> 07:22.410]  If you do not know this information or are calling for any other reason than to speak to a passenger, please hang up and contact Carnival Cruise Lines at 1-800-Carnival.
[07:23.010 --> 07:28.170]  Upon connection to the ship, this call will be billed at a rate of $9.50 per minute.
[07:28.550 --> 07:31.930]  You may pay for this call by using any of the following major credit cards.
[07:32.310 --> 07:39.250]  Visa, MasterCard, Discover, American Express, Diners Club, JCB, and Car Blanc.
[07:39.650 --> 07:43.610]  Billing will begin upon connection to the ship's operator or automated system.
[07:44.160 --> 07:46.070]  Please make a selection from the following menu.
[07:47.010 --> 07:48.750]  Press one pound for the Splendor.
[07:49.030 --> 07:49.590]  That's it.
[07:49.630 --> 07:50.310]  One pound.
[07:51.950 --> 07:55.310]  Please enter your credit card number, followed by the pound sign now.
[07:55.890 --> 07:58.290]  Well, I'm not going to give mine over the air.
[07:58.630 --> 07:59.390]  Well, that's no fun.
[07:59.450 --> 08:02.210]  And I don't have enough credit for $9.50 a minute.
[08:02.910 --> 08:03.710]  Is this it?
[08:04.210 --> 08:05.230]  Can we go further?
[08:06.150 --> 08:07.510]  I think that's how we can go.
[08:07.970 --> 08:08.270]  What?
[08:08.690 --> 08:10.410]  Put a fake number in and see what happens.
[08:10.610 --> 08:11.570]  Like, use your credit card.
[08:11.570 --> 08:12.970]  Use one of our...
[08:12.970 --> 08:13.210]  I'm sorry.
[08:13.330 --> 08:15.070]  Your credit card number is incorrect.
[08:15.610 --> 08:18.810]  Please enter your credit card number, followed by the pound sign now.
[08:22.200 --> 08:23.560]  Hey, that's my credit card number.
[08:26.760 --> 08:28.100]  It's my luggage combination.
[08:28.100 --> 08:28.720]  I don't know.
[08:31.040 --> 08:33.180]  I think that was 16 digits that I put.
[08:35.000 --> 08:36.620]  Well, it probably does that pin code.
[08:36.620 --> 08:38.960]  Please enter your four-digit expiration date.
[08:39.180 --> 08:40.300]  Month and year only.
[08:40.720 --> 08:41.920]  For example...
[08:45.860 --> 08:48.560]  An error has occurred while processing your payment.
[08:48.900 --> 08:50.540]  Please hang up and call again.
[08:50.660 --> 08:51.340]  I wonder why.
[08:52.000 --> 08:53.160]  What did I miss here?
[08:53.860 --> 08:56.580]  You missed us trying to call the Carnival Splendor.
[08:56.740 --> 08:57.280]  For free.
[08:57.560 --> 09:00.760]  And failing in a splendorous manner.
[09:00.920 --> 09:03.860]  Well, as long as you failed splendorously, that's what matters.
[09:04.700 --> 09:07.000]  Also, I loosened a couple of bolts on your chair there, so be careful.
[09:07.000 --> 09:07.580]  Okay, that's fine.
[09:07.620 --> 09:07.980]  That's fine.
[09:08.180 --> 09:08.620]  No problem.
[09:09.000 --> 09:09.980]  I am so sorry.
[09:10.280 --> 09:11.820]  You know, I really thought I gave enough time.
[09:11.980 --> 09:20.400]  But occasionally this happens in New York, where everything just sort of slows down, and nobody gets anywhere at any particular speed, and nobody knows why.
[09:20.720 --> 09:23.460]  It wasn't even on the radio as a traffic congestion point.
[09:23.580 --> 09:26.340]  It was just everybody was going really, really slowly.
[09:26.980 --> 09:31.480]  The good thing about this is the next time we're late for the show, you can't say anything.
[09:31.920 --> 09:32.780]  Well, yeah, that's true.
[09:32.840 --> 09:33.180]  That's true.
[09:33.400 --> 09:34.900]  I can't, but I will.
[09:36.440 --> 09:37.580]  Well, it's good to see everybody.
[09:37.740 --> 09:39.200]  Good to finally make it here.
[09:41.080 --> 09:41.720]  And, wow.
[09:41.920 --> 09:42.160]  Okay.
[09:42.320 --> 09:42.660]  Good to have you here.
[09:42.820 --> 09:43.240]  Thank you.
[09:43.320 --> 09:43.920]  Thank you very much.
[09:44.560 --> 09:47.320]  This is Off the Hook, where you never know what's going to happen next.
[09:47.360 --> 09:47.980]  We know that.
[09:48.020 --> 09:48.980]  We've been here for 10 minutes.
[09:49.460 --> 09:50.380]  It's been 10 minutes.
[09:51.040 --> 09:51.680]  That's amazing.
[09:52.340 --> 09:54.200]  I've got a bunch of stories here, a bunch of interesting things.
[09:54.200 --> 09:55.280]  You've just covered the cruise ship.
[09:55.280 --> 09:56.400]  Have you covered anything else?
[09:56.600 --> 09:57.180]  No, that's it.
[09:57.340 --> 09:57.480]  Okay.
[09:57.680 --> 10:00.620]  Apparently, there's traffic on the east side or something.
[10:00.660 --> 10:01.620]  We got that story, too.
[10:01.720 --> 10:01.980]  All right.
[10:02.080 --> 10:02.220]  Yeah.
[10:02.440 --> 10:04.860]  And all throughout Brooklyn, Nassau, and Queens.
[10:05.140 --> 10:06.440]  And, yeah.
[10:07.040 --> 10:09.360]  So, Google is now starting wars, I understand.
[10:09.680 --> 10:10.520]  Have you heard about this?
[10:10.680 --> 10:10.940]  Oh, yeah.
[10:11.120 --> 10:12.020]  In Central America, right?
[10:12.020 --> 10:12.860]  Yeah, Central America.
[10:13.020 --> 10:18.360]  They apparently retraced the border between two Central American countries.
[10:19.060 --> 10:21.320]  And this is after a territory dispute developed.
[10:21.400 --> 10:21.900]  Here's what happened.
[10:25.280 --> 10:27.620]  Nicaragua and Costa Rica with new data from the U.S.
[10:27.720 --> 10:28.260]  State Department.
[10:28.600 --> 10:36.340]  And that follows a dispute that developed between those two countries over a piece of land near the San Juan River on the Caribbean coast.
[10:36.720 --> 10:44.580]  A Nicaraguan official cited the Google Maps version of the border as justification for a reported raid of the area, according to the local news.
[10:44.580 --> 10:49.080]  Yes, they raided the area because of what Google Maps said.
[10:49.360 --> 10:51.820]  That's literally the story here.
[10:52.840 --> 10:57.900]  Now, Google says it is our goal to provide the most accurate, up-to-date maps possible.
[10:58.340 --> 11:00.440]  Maps are created using a variety of data sources.
[11:00.640 --> 11:03.300]  And there are inevitably going to be errors in that data.
[11:03.480 --> 11:06.600]  We work hard to correct any errors as soon as we discover them.
[11:06.800 --> 11:11.080]  And Google blames the State Department, saying they're the ones who provided the faulty data in the first place.
[11:11.080 --> 11:15.380]  But it's just amazing to me that countries are looking at Google Maps and saying, hey, that's our land.
[11:15.500 --> 11:17.000]  We're going to invade you now.
[11:17.160 --> 11:20.840]  Now, I know that the Nicaraguan army is not as well-funded as some armies.
[11:21.540 --> 11:24.920]  And the Costa Rican army doesn't exist, so they're not well-funded at all.
[11:25.000 --> 11:26.660]  But can't they afford a paper map?
[11:27.740 --> 11:29.800]  Well, they get outdated so quickly, though.
[11:30.160 --> 11:31.420]  Google Maps is up to the moment.
[11:31.640 --> 11:34.280]  Maybe something happened that they weren't informed about.
[11:34.280 --> 11:43.060]  But this whole thing just implies that Googling something doesn't return the indelible, inarguable answer.
[11:43.700 --> 11:45.100]  And that's troubling to me.
[11:45.320 --> 11:46.080]  Yeah, absolutely.
[11:46.480 --> 11:49.780]  Sometimes things aren't quite right in Google land.
[11:49.840 --> 11:51.940]  On the other hand, can we use this to settle border disputes?
[11:52.140 --> 11:57.380]  Like, there's this silly argument between Denmark, which owns Greenland, and Canada about some uninhabited island.
[11:57.500 --> 12:00.340]  Can we just look at Google and be like, all right, whatever Google says, that's it.
[12:00.420 --> 12:01.240]  You have to stop arguing.
[12:01.400 --> 12:02.280]  Denmark owns Greenland.
[12:02.360 --> 12:03.380]  Is that really how you want to say it?
[12:03.380 --> 12:03.940]  Yes.
[12:04.120 --> 12:05.060]  They own Greenland.
[12:05.200 --> 12:06.340]  They own the people there.
[12:06.420 --> 12:06.920]  They own everything.
[12:07.020 --> 12:07.700]  They own the territory.
[12:07.700 --> 12:10.660]  And it's a colony of Denmark, yes.
[12:10.780 --> 12:13.740]  I think some of our Greenland listeners might have something to say about...
[12:13.740 --> 12:15.740]  I'm not saying it's the way things should be.
[12:15.740 --> 12:19.400]  I'm saying it's the state of affairs in Greenland.
[12:19.700 --> 12:22.860]  What I think is interesting is that Google relied on U.S.
[12:22.920 --> 12:31.300]  State Department data when there probably are other views of where the border should be.
[12:31.300 --> 12:42.720]  Like, if you ask the government of Morocco where their border is between them and the Western Sahara, the territory called Western Sahara, I'm sure you get a different answer than if you ask the U.S.
[12:42.780 --> 12:45.940]  State Department or if you ask the people in Western Sahara.
[12:45.940 --> 12:52.060]  So, you know, whose information should Google be putting on, you know, to trace these borders out?
[12:52.200 --> 12:52.880]  It's interesting.
[12:54.180 --> 12:54.560]  Absolutely.
[12:55.480 --> 12:58.400]  Well, now, we had this election last week.
[12:58.580 --> 13:00.220]  I know we're still reeling from that.
[13:00.640 --> 13:06.600]  But here's a little side benefit that a lot of folks out there I think will be very interested in.
[13:07.200 --> 13:12.780]  We've been talking a lot about net neutrality over the years and the importance of net neutrality to the Internet.
[13:12.780 --> 13:15.920]  Anybody here like to describe what net neutrality is in a couple of words?
[13:16.120 --> 13:27.940]  Net neutrality is the idea that Internet carriers, so the phone company, the cable company usually, shouldn't be allowed to charge content providers more for faster delivery of their content.
[13:28.180 --> 13:30.500]  An example of that, perhaps, of having to be abused.
[13:30.720 --> 13:41.900]  So, it could be the case that, you know, whatever your cable company decides that, like, they don't like Google and they want you to use Bing, maybe Microsoft gives them some money, so they could block...
[13:41.900 --> 13:42.820]  Did you say micro-suck?
[13:42.940 --> 13:43.760]  Did you just say that?
[13:43.800 --> 13:43.900]  Micro-soft.
[13:44.400 --> 13:46.080]  Oh, it sounded like you said micro-suck.
[13:46.120 --> 13:46.600]  No, no, no.
[13:46.600 --> 13:48.480]  I would never call the good people of...
[13:48.480 --> 13:52.560]  I mean, I've seen people spell it with a dollar sign, but I've never heard anybody stoop to that level.
[13:52.560 --> 13:54.320]  How would you pronounce it with a dollar sign on the radio?
[13:54.320 --> 13:56.920]  You can't, which is why you'd say something like micro-suck instead.
[13:57.040 --> 13:59.380]  I did not intend to say anything but Microsoft.
[14:00.020 --> 14:00.900]  Gloves are off.
[14:00.980 --> 14:01.100]  Okay.
[14:01.100 --> 14:01.940]  No, the gloves are on.
[14:02.100 --> 14:03.220]  Actually, he is wearing gloves.
[14:03.220 --> 14:04.260]  Yeah, he is wearing gloves.
[14:04.260 --> 14:05.480]  Why are you wearing gloves in the studio?
[14:05.740 --> 14:09.240]  Because they're very bulky and I don't have big enough pockets to put them in.
[14:10.220 --> 14:10.580]  Okay.
[14:10.700 --> 14:14.420]  I'm not going to even ask why you have them in the first place, but continue with your wonderful net neutrality.
[14:14.760 --> 14:22.700]  So, the point is that Microsoft could pay your phone company some money so that you can't access Google or so that you access Google more solely or vice versa.
[14:22.740 --> 14:24.700]  Google pays some money and then you can't go to Bing.
[14:24.760 --> 14:31.260]  So, if you want the net to continue to work for you, regardless of what it is you're trying to connect to at equal speeds.
[14:31.500 --> 14:35.240]  Net neutrality is how the internet has always been since it started.
[14:36.140 --> 14:42.360]  And the idea of net neutrality legislation is that we want to keep it that way and we don't want to give the carriers the option to change it.
[14:42.360 --> 14:42.700]  Okay.
[14:43.040 --> 14:55.460]  And the good news is that in the House and Senate right now, there are 95, or actually 95 candidates before the election who pledged support for net neutrality.
[14:55.680 --> 15:01.000]  And as of last Tuesday, every single one of them lost.
[15:01.240 --> 15:02.040]  That's right.
[15:02.220 --> 15:04.680]  Every single damn one of them did not win.
[15:04.680 --> 15:13.080]  And that could mean that net neutrality is all but dead, thanks to the American people.
[15:13.480 --> 15:15.640]  I don't think you can blame anybody else.
[15:15.820 --> 15:16.360]  How did this happen?
[15:18.140 --> 15:23.200]  I have many theories, but I think it's people not caring enough to do something.
[15:23.340 --> 15:27.320]  Support of net neutrality is not a universal position, but it's not a fringe position.
[15:27.640 --> 15:33.960]  But it tends to be the position of people that are on one side of the political aisle, and that's why I took a beating.
[15:34.960 --> 15:38.800]  Not all, not every person, you know, left or center lost their election.
[15:39.060 --> 15:44.220]  Well, yeah, but the ones who are least progressive tend to, tended to win the most, I think.
[15:44.360 --> 15:47.220]  And net neutrality, I guess, is one way of measuring that.
[15:48.260 --> 15:53.240]  Yeah, so it'll be interesting to see what happens in the years ahead.
[15:53.420 --> 15:54.640]  Bernie, what do you think about all this?
[15:54.640 --> 16:13.500]  Well, I think there's no chance of getting any legislation through the current House, which was just taken over by the Republicans, getting any legislation voted on or voted for it that would require net neutrality.
[16:13.700 --> 16:18.260]  So it comes down to, I think, a court decision.
[16:18.260 --> 16:27.200]  It comes down to a judicial thing, whether the FCC is going to be allowed to mandate that carriers practice net neutrality.
[16:27.200 --> 16:40.540]  I think the big dispute is whether the nuclear option, as it's called, for the FCC, is for it to declare Internet service providers as what are called Title II telecommunications providers.
[16:40.700 --> 16:42.520]  Title II is like a telephone company or something.
[16:42.520 --> 16:53.440]  If the FCC reclassifies the Internet service providers as Title II communications carriers, then they have to practice net neutrality.
[16:53.840 --> 16:54.680]  But that would...
[16:55.660 --> 16:57.640]  No, that's the nuclear option.
[16:57.840 --> 17:04.500]  There are some situations where you need to do some traffic shaping, and it would prevent ISPs from doing that.
[17:04.620 --> 17:06.760]  So we'll have to see how this plays out.
[17:06.820 --> 17:11.040]  It's going to be interesting, but it doesn't look good for any legislation being passed to require net neutrality.
[17:12.180 --> 17:12.540]  Unbelievable.
[17:13.160 --> 17:16.540]  Well, that's part of the fallout of what happened last Tuesday.
[17:16.880 --> 17:18.740]  I'm sure we'll be hearing all kinds of other things as well.
[17:18.840 --> 17:21.680]  Maybe this will wake people up a little bit to the importance of these things.
[17:23.160 --> 17:23.520]  Okay.
[17:24.380 --> 17:25.800]  Interesting news about...
[17:26.260 --> 17:32.220]  We've heard about the drones that are being used overseas to fight the bad guys and all that kind of thing.
[17:32.300 --> 17:52.380]  But do you know that in addition to finding terrorist leaders in the hills of Pakistan, that these little drones can be used to spy on, well, any of us, really, personal drones, smaller private versions of the infamous Predator, are the next hot technology for people looking to track celebrities,
[17:52.840 --> 17:54.600]  cheating lovers, or even wildlife.
[17:54.880 --> 17:57.680]  It could be a dream tool for the paparazzi.
[17:59.280 --> 18:03.900]  And basically, several personal drones are scheduled for completion next year.
[18:03.900 --> 18:05.680]  These are, I guess they look like little helicopters.
[18:06.060 --> 18:06.720]  How big are they?
[18:07.180 --> 18:07.420]  Sorry?
[18:07.560 --> 18:07.960]  How big?
[18:08.800 --> 18:10.960]  I guess about head size, it looks like.
[18:11.140 --> 18:13.980]  I think I would notice if, like, a head were following me around.
[18:14.100 --> 18:16.260]  It's a little bigger than head size, if you can look at that picture there.
[18:16.400 --> 18:18.580]  Oh, I can see the picture, and I would definitely notice that.
[18:18.600 --> 18:23.860]  It looks like the things that we've seen, there were some at Hope, actually, and they're at the German conferences as well.
[18:23.940 --> 18:28.960]  Yeah, the things that hackers like to play with that, sort of like helicopters, but they rise up out of the ground.
[18:28.960 --> 18:31.720]  Well, not out of the ground, but off the floor, and hover.
[18:32.680 --> 18:34.440]  But they make noise, you can hear them.
[18:34.600 --> 18:36.920]  But if they're up high enough, maybe you won't hear them.
[18:36.960 --> 18:37.920]  Maybe you won't see them then.
[18:38.040 --> 18:43.460]  And if you can control them, and watch where people go, and have a telephoto lens, who knows what you could see?
[18:44.380 --> 18:45.100]  I guess.
[18:45.380 --> 18:45.540]  Yeah.
[18:46.420 --> 18:56.040]  Now, I picture this as something that every parent is going to want to have to watch their kid as they walk in that dangerous zone between the house and the school bus stop.
[18:56.040 --> 18:58.900]  It would give whole new meaning to the term helicopter parents.
[18:59.120 --> 18:59.540]  Exactly.
[18:59.740 --> 19:01.220]  Hovering parents, I believe.
[19:01.660 --> 19:01.860]  Yeah.
[19:01.940 --> 19:04.040]  Helicopter parents, hovering parents, yes, all that kind of thing.
[19:04.700 --> 19:18.840]  Using the device's onboard camera and thermal imaging technology, the operator is able to pick up the suspect through his body heat and direct foot patrols to his location, if cops are using it, which apparently they are.
[19:19.640 --> 19:26.000]  And the drone measures three feet between the tips of its four carbon fiber rotor blades.
[19:26.260 --> 19:32.940]  It uses unmanned aerial vehicle technology, known as UAV, originally designed for military reconnaissance.
[19:33.120 --> 19:41.080]  The battery-powered device can have a range of cameras attached to its main body, including CCTV surveillance or thermal imaging cameras.
[19:41.520 --> 19:56.420]  It's designed to hover almost silently above crime scenes and send live footage to officers on the ground, but the unit can also perch and stare from a solid platform, allowing the operator to capture hours of footage from a hidden vantage point.
[19:56.900 --> 19:59.700]  This is scary because, you know what, this is going to happen.
[19:59.740 --> 20:06.100]  The military always develops this kind of technology before they use it on the civilians.
[20:06.500 --> 20:11.560]  And I see this as actually being something they're going to be doing, something they're going to be using quite a bit.
[20:12.020 --> 20:14.400]  There's a limitation, though, on this technology.
[20:14.600 --> 20:21.400]  And that is, these little small helicopters require battery power or a gasoline engine.
[20:21.420 --> 20:32.660]  In any case, you're not going to be able to have a drone helicopter flying around for more than a few minutes without running out of either battery power or fuel.
[20:33.440 --> 20:36.180]  Because otherwise, it's just too heavy and it won't get off the ground.
[20:36.420 --> 20:41.020]  So I'm sure they're working on that, but we would have to be limited to very short flights for the time being.
[20:41.320 --> 20:42.520]  Now, what about if...
[20:43.220 --> 20:44.020]  Solar panels.
[20:44.120 --> 20:44.560]  Solar panels.
[20:44.660 --> 20:45.520]  What if...
[20:46.140 --> 20:51.440]  Would they possibly be able to top off its power supply and extend its range with, you know, a good sunny day?
[20:51.840 --> 20:52.420]  Not enough.
[20:52.660 --> 20:53.520]  It's a good question.
[20:54.700 --> 20:56.080]  Why are we trying to help them?
[20:56.560 --> 20:56.920]  No, no.
[20:57.020 --> 21:00.100]  You know they thought about this, so I'm throwing up the question for the listeners.
[21:00.360 --> 21:00.560]  Uh-huh.
[21:01.540 --> 21:01.900]  Huh.
[21:03.360 --> 21:09.100]  Well, all I want to know is when are we going to see the first of these hovering above us and I was going...
[21:09.100 --> 21:09.600]  We've seen it.
[21:09.680 --> 21:10.120]  It was at Hope.
[21:10.520 --> 21:12.160]  No, I don't mean when we're playing with it.
[21:12.220 --> 21:14.400]  I mean when the police are using it and they're spying on us.
[21:14.460 --> 21:14.760]  I see.
[21:15.120 --> 21:16.880]  Or when hovering parents are spying on us.
[21:17.080 --> 21:24.760]  Didn't we have listeners calling in several years ago warning us about these dragonfly remote surveillance things that look like dragonflies?
[21:24.900 --> 21:28.320]  We always have listeners calling in warning us about things, and some of them exist and some of them don't.
[21:28.400 --> 21:30.180]  This might have been one of the things that existed.
[21:30.320 --> 21:30.480]  Rob?
[21:30.480 --> 21:37.300]  I think it could be worth asking our friends from Differware if they could maybe work on a butterfly net with a Faraday cage, because I would love one of these for my collection.
[21:37.520 --> 21:40.780]  Well, you know, I don't see anything wrong with capturing one if one is following you.
[21:41.660 --> 21:47.100]  Just like if somebody puts a device on your car to monitor your whereabouts, you can take that device.
[21:47.240 --> 21:48.260]  You can do whatever you want with it.
[21:48.380 --> 21:52.800]  Well, except that then the FBI comes and yells at you, and you get in all kinds of trouble.
[21:52.920 --> 21:56.400]  Get yelled at by a lot of people, and they're just going to have to deal with it.
[21:56.500 --> 21:57.540]  Happened just a few weeks ago.
[21:57.860 --> 21:57.860]  Yes.
[21:58.360 --> 21:58.940]  Voltaire is here.
[21:59.040 --> 22:00.400]  Voltaire, you know the show starts at 7.
[22:00.480 --> 22:03.820]  Yeah, I was pressing the door closed button in the elevator, and it wasn't working.
[22:04.140 --> 22:05.920]  We all make an attempt to get here on time.
[22:06.520 --> 22:09.960]  It's important that everybody do the same thing.
[22:10.120 --> 22:14.280]  I just don't mean to do the on-air lecture thing, but I feel in the interest of fairness.
[22:14.620 --> 22:16.180]  After the show, I'm going to the drugstore.
[22:16.280 --> 22:17.680]  I'm buying everyone a $10 watch.
[22:19.740 --> 22:20.060]  Okay.
[22:20.720 --> 22:21.660]  So, how have you been?
[22:21.740 --> 22:22.500]  It's been a while since you've been here.
[22:22.540 --> 22:22.780]  Yes.
[22:23.320 --> 22:23.880]  It's been a good thing.
[22:24.060 --> 22:24.420]  That's good.
[22:25.460 --> 22:30.940]  I was just going to say that if we have our Freddie chips in our passport, we should be able to break them, too.
[22:31.600 --> 22:31.760]  Uh-huh.
[22:32.060 --> 22:32.540]  Yeah, it should be.
[22:32.680 --> 22:41.320]  If it's in your hands, if it's in your possession, if it's something that you have bought or own or, quote-unquote, bought or own, you should be able to do whatever you want with it.
[22:42.220 --> 22:43.500]  It seems only fair to me.
[22:43.980 --> 22:51.860]  And that goes for the insides of cars, that goes for your DVD players, that goes for your computers, that goes for anything that is yours.
[22:52.180 --> 22:55.960]  You should be able to do whatever you want with it, short of killing somebody with it.
[22:56.040 --> 22:57.200]  But that's a whole different issue.
[22:57.600 --> 23:02.240]  Oh, well, you know, they found a very nice way around that.
[23:02.400 --> 23:03.740]  They're not really... you don't really own it.
[23:03.840 --> 23:05.740]  You're just, you know, giving permission to use...
[23:05.740 --> 23:06.460]  Yeah, you're leasing it.
[23:06.500 --> 23:06.820]  ...their property.
[23:06.980 --> 23:07.320]  License.
[23:07.460 --> 23:08.640]  Right, a license to use.
[23:08.760 --> 23:10.040]  I don't buy it.
[23:10.720 --> 23:13.080]  You take off the plastic, you sign the license.
[23:13.080 --> 23:14.420]  There's so much stupidity around us.
[23:14.480 --> 23:16.220]  I mean, I'm not just referring to last Tuesday.
[23:16.360 --> 23:21.960]  I'm referring to just all the different uses and ineffective uses of technology.
[23:22.140 --> 23:23.320]  This happened to me yesterday, right?
[23:23.320 --> 23:24.480]  I was in a drugstore.
[23:24.860 --> 23:26.780]  This is a bad time of year for me.
[23:26.840 --> 23:28.740]  I have allergies like you would not believe.
[23:28.780 --> 23:32.900]  So I needed to get Claritin or an equivalent brand.
[23:33.020 --> 23:36.380]  I'm not going to say I got one particular brand or another, but you know what I'm talking about.
[23:37.580 --> 23:45.760]  And apparently, you can use Claritin or its similar brands to start a meth lab.
[23:45.920 --> 23:46.280]  You know that?
[23:46.380 --> 23:47.540]  I would never have guessed.
[23:47.780 --> 23:50.740]  It's the ingredient in Sudafed is the main one.
[23:51.640 --> 23:52.940]  Claritin D, not radio Claritin.
[23:52.960 --> 23:53.540]  Claritin D, right.
[23:53.640 --> 23:55.100]  And that's the one they keep behind the counter now.
[23:55.300 --> 24:00.600]  And until the federal government said that, I wouldn't have even thought of starting a meth lab with my supply.
[24:01.840 --> 24:04.020]  But my supply ran out, so I had to get more.
[24:04.480 --> 24:11.020]  So I went to the drugstore, and I said, okay, please, I'd like a pack of 15.
[24:11.660 --> 24:13.760]  And they said, well, we don't have 15.
[24:13.760 --> 24:14.600]  We only have 10.
[24:15.120 --> 24:16.680]  Like, okay, well, give me two packs of 10.
[24:17.220 --> 24:18.040]  I'm sorry, sir.
[24:18.120 --> 24:19.740]  You can't get that many.
[24:20.620 --> 24:23.260]  As if I was overdosing or something like that.
[24:23.340 --> 24:24.020]  I wanted 15.
[24:24.180 --> 24:26.680]  They wouldn't give me two packs of 10 because they didn't have 15.
[24:26.860 --> 24:28.180]  That was just silly in and of itself.
[24:28.260 --> 24:29.640]  They said the computer will reject that.
[24:30.020 --> 24:32.000]  You know, a human being doesn't enter into it.
[24:32.040 --> 24:33.000]  The computer will reject it.
[24:33.160 --> 24:35.560]  And then the next step was showing them ID.
[24:35.780 --> 24:41.300]  And I showed them my ID, and they looked at it, and the computer rejected my ID because it was expired.
[24:41.480 --> 24:43.360]  I gave them my expired license by accident.
[24:43.740 --> 24:46.600]  And I asked them, what difference does it make if my license is expired?
[24:46.600 --> 24:49.720]  I'm still the same person, but the computer is rejecting it.
[24:49.760 --> 24:50.900]  The computer won't process it.
[24:51.020 --> 24:56.340]  How many times have you heard that phrase, the computer says no, the computer does not accept this?
[24:56.340 --> 24:59.360]  And obviously, a human being would.
[24:59.580 --> 25:02.140]  For a human being, 20 is no different than 15.
[25:02.460 --> 25:04.160]  I mean, not significantly different.
[25:04.320 --> 25:06.920]  It's not like you're starting a meth lab with 20 pills.
[25:08.020 --> 25:16.260]  And a license that expired a couple of months ago, how is that any different than a license that is still good if you're not driving?
[25:16.460 --> 25:19.360]  You're the same person, same address, same everything, same picture.
[25:20.060 --> 25:22.480]  It's just, it's incredible silliness.
[25:22.740 --> 25:33.680]  And, you know, it's something that I run across all the time of people that are kind of chained to technology, and they say that because the computer says this, I can't make any exception.
[25:33.820 --> 25:34.720]  That's just the way it is.
[25:34.800 --> 25:35.500]  Those are the rules.
[25:35.760 --> 25:36.180]  Emmanuel?
[25:36.380 --> 25:36.560]  Yes.
[25:36.840 --> 25:47.460]  I'm wondering what would happen if you brought in a valid ID that the computer accepted, and you bought your 10 tablets of Claritin-D or whatever, and then you left the store and came back 5, 10 minutes later.
[25:47.460 --> 25:48.520]  Oh, no, I'm flagged.
[25:48.620 --> 25:50.140]  I'm flagged as a troublemaker already.
[25:50.300 --> 25:52.760]  I can't buy, I don't think I can buy Claritin anywhere.
[25:53.060 --> 25:54.720]  I don't know how 10 is supposed to last you.
[25:54.800 --> 25:55.500]  You can't really...
[25:55.500 --> 26:05.120]  My point is, does the system that they enter your ID information into track how much Claritin-D you buy, and will it flag you if you try to buy it again, like, a few hours later?
[26:05.240 --> 26:08.360]  Well, if I designed that system, I would say it's no good unless it did that.
[26:08.480 --> 26:11.800]  I mean, it wouldn't make sense to just block you in one store.
[26:12.040 --> 26:14.520]  But, you know what, maybe I'll try to buy more tonight and see what happens.
[26:14.540 --> 26:16.180]  It could be a whole big thing.
[26:16.180 --> 26:21.820]  The other question I had for them, and this is fascinating, I asked, well, what happens if I don't have a driver's license?
[26:21.820 --> 26:22.720]  What do you do then?
[26:23.080 --> 26:27.160]  And the answer was, you have to have a state-issued ID.
[26:27.260 --> 26:28.140]  It's the law.
[26:28.580 --> 26:29.540]  I didn't know that.
[26:29.800 --> 26:35.920]  A drugstore clerk informed me that it's now the law that you have to have ID on you at all times in this country.
[26:36.060 --> 26:37.620]  Isn't that a kick in the ass?
[26:37.820 --> 26:38.400]  Not true.
[26:38.600 --> 26:40.620]  I know it's not true, but that's what people believe.
[26:40.740 --> 26:44.460]  And when people believe things that aren't true, sooner or later, they become true.
[26:44.920 --> 26:45.440]  I.E.
[26:45.520 --> 26:46.140]  last Tuesday.
[26:46.320 --> 26:49.680]  Thank God they're at the drugstore, not cops that don't know the law.
[26:50.220 --> 26:50.380]  Yeah.
[26:50.720 --> 26:52.100]  Well, they're next on the list.
[26:52.180 --> 26:53.100]  Drugstore clerks, number one.
[26:53.180 --> 26:53.720]  Cops, number two.
[26:53.840 --> 26:54.720]  People who don't know the law.
[26:55.600 --> 26:57.000]  So anyway, that's just...
[26:57.000 --> 27:00.460]  I'm sure we've all had these kinds of experiences where we've come up against ignorami.
[27:01.460 --> 27:02.300]  Is that the right use of the word?
[27:02.820 --> 27:12.860]  People who are in control and they have a computer and they think that they know what's going on when in actuality they're more crippled than anybody insofar as doing things that make sense.
[27:13.100 --> 27:34.020]  Well, on that ID question about your mandatory thing, if you have a driver's license in a state or commonwealth of the United States, I think all of them require that if you move to another state, that like within 30 days or some time period, you must then register yourself as being a driver in that state.
[27:34.820 --> 27:47.400]  But if you're not a licensed driver, then there's no such requirement because they can't legally force you to pay for an ID just to exist as a person.
[27:47.900 --> 27:48.680]  Well, okay.
[27:48.760 --> 27:49.980]  So what is your solution then?
[27:49.980 --> 27:54.060]  If I need that particular kind of drug, how do I get it if I don't have a driver's license?
[27:55.120 --> 28:03.620]  Well, to get through their hoops, which are, you know, to surmount their claim that you must have one, which is not legally true, you would have to get one.
[28:05.300 --> 28:06.960]  But, you know, and you have to pay.
[28:07.300 --> 28:09.280]  The state IDs are not free.
[28:09.280 --> 28:10.160]  You have to pay money.
[28:10.580 --> 28:12.240]  That's why they have laws.
[28:12.380 --> 28:22.220]  That's why there's no requirements at most states to get a driver's license or straight state ID to vote unless they make the IDs for free.
[28:22.480 --> 28:25.240]  And the states don't want to give them away for free because they want to make money.
[28:25.820 --> 28:26.380]  Absolutely.
[28:27.300 --> 28:27.860]  All right.
[28:28.160 --> 28:36.960]  Here's a very disturbing story that I saw on Salon.com, written by one Glenn Greenwald.
[28:37.220 --> 28:39.040]  In July of this year, U.S.
[28:39.120 --> 28:50.160]  citizen Jacob Applebaum, a researcher and spokesman for WikiLeaks, he's the guy who also gave our keynote at The Next Hope, was detained for several hours at Newark Airport after returning from a trip to Holland.
[28:50.160 --> 28:53.180]  In fact, that was the trip he took after Hope, I believe.
[28:53.320 --> 28:55.780]  He hightailed it out of the country and then came back afterwards.
[28:56.040 --> 29:05.800]  He had his laptop, cell phones, and other electronic products seized, all without a search warrant, without being charged with a crime, and without even being under investigation, at least to his knowledge.
[29:06.140 --> 29:15.420]  He was interrogated at length about WikiLeaks and was told by the detaining agents that he could expect to be subjected to the same treatment every time he left the country and attempted to return to the U.S.
[29:16.120 --> 29:16.740]  Sounds familiar.
[29:17.200 --> 29:21.280]  Days later, two FBI agents approached him at a computer conference he was attending in New York.
[29:21.540 --> 29:22.700]  Oh, wait, that was before Hope?
[29:23.340 --> 29:23.660]  Wow.
[29:24.360 --> 29:25.860]  That must be our computer conference, right?
[29:25.980 --> 29:26.600]  Yeah, it has to be.
[29:26.700 --> 29:27.720]  No, it must be something else.
[29:27.720 --> 29:30.760]  I think they mixed this up because I don't think he was detained before Hope, was he?
[29:30.880 --> 29:32.060]  I thought he was detained after Hope.
[29:32.300 --> 29:35.580]  Yeah, maybe it's another computer conference in New York.
[29:35.640 --> 29:37.140]  He came to New York and didn't let us know.
[29:39.380 --> 29:40.020]  Well, anyway...
[29:41.540 --> 29:45.320]  Two FBI agents approached him at that conference and asked to speak with him again.
[29:45.320 --> 29:50.160]  To date, he has never been charged with any crime or even told he's under investigation for anything.
[29:50.320 --> 29:56.940]  This was clearly a thuggish attempt by federal officials to intimidate any American citizen involved with or supporting WikiLeaks.
[29:57.320 --> 30:01.480]  That campaign of intimidation is now clearly spreading to supporters of Bradley Manning.
[30:01.860 --> 30:09.820]  Last Wednesday, November 3rd, David House, a 23-year-old researcher who works at MIT... Wow, there really are people named House, just like on TV.
[30:09.820 --> 30:14.100]  A 23-year-old researcher who works at MIT was returning to the U.S.
[30:14.480 --> 30:19.460]  from a short vacation with his girlfriend in Mexico and was subjected to similar and even worse treatment.
[30:19.980 --> 30:27.400]  House's crime, he did work helping set up the Bradley Manning Support Network, an organization created to raise money for Manning's legal defense fund.
[30:27.580 --> 30:35.500]  And he has now visited Manning three times in Quantico, Virginia, where the accused WikiLeaks leaker is currently being detained.
[30:36.640 --> 30:45.380]  Like Applebaum, House has never been accused of any crime, never been advised that he's under investigation, and was never told by any federal agents that he's suspected of any wrongdoing at all.
[30:45.760 --> 30:58.940]  Last Wednesday, House arrived at Chicago's O'Hare Airport, and his flight was met in the concourse by customs agents who examined the passports of all deplaning passengers until they saw houses, at which point they stopped.
[30:58.940 --> 31:03.380]  He was then directed to customs, where he and his girlfriend's bags were extensively searched.
[31:03.660 --> 31:13.060]  After the search was complete, two men identifying themselves as homeland security officials told House and his girlfriend they were being detained for questioning and would miss their connecting flight.
[31:13.300 --> 31:22.660]  House was told that he was required to relinquish all of his electronic products and thus gave them his laptop, cell phone, digital camera, and USB flash drive.
[31:22.660 --> 31:24.900]  It says UBS flash drive, but I assume it's USB.
[31:25.240 --> 31:32.860]  And that notice, actually, is something you will see whenever you enter the country on a land border as well, and lucky enough to get detained and brought into that little room.
[31:32.880 --> 31:36.760]  They say you are required to hand over all electronic equipment upon demand.
[31:37.880 --> 31:40.040]  My latest incident, it wasn't demanded.
[31:40.800 --> 31:46.420]  And while you are required to hand it over, you are not required to give them additional information.
[31:46.460 --> 31:48.160]  In fact, you don't even have to answer their questions.
[31:49.220 --> 31:54.520]  The document he received itemizing his seized property is onsalon.com.
[31:54.600 --> 31:58.700]  If you want to go to that website, you can look over all the first-hand information.
[31:59.140 --> 32:05.780]  He was also told to give the agents all of his passwords and encryption keys, which he refused to do.
[32:05.920 --> 32:06.200]  Bravo.
[32:07.080 --> 32:10.760]  House was then taken to a detention room by two armed agents.
[32:10.940 --> 32:17.480]  And on his way there, he passed by a room in which several individuals were plugging various instruments into his laptop and cell phone.
[32:18.060 --> 32:31.160]  The two agents proceeded to question him for 90 minutes as to why he was visiting Manning in prison, what work he did to support the Manning campaign, who else was involved in the Manning support group, and what his views were on WikiLeaks.
[32:31.320 --> 32:36.360]  He was told that he would not receive his laptop or camera back, and the agents kept it.
[32:36.460 --> 32:38.880]  To date, he has not received them back very well, may never.
[32:38.880 --> 32:46.560]  However, when he told them that he had roughly 20 hours of source code work in his laptop and would like to save it or email it to a saved site, they told him he could not do that.
[32:48.360 --> 32:57.740]  And basically, he subsequently learned that one of the agents actually was an FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force agent and not part of Homeland Security.
[32:58.420 --> 33:00.880]  Now, according to this article, what's going on here is obvious.
[33:00.880 --> 33:09.200]  The federal government has the authority to conduct border searches of people entering the country that are far broader than those inside the country, and such searches require no search warrant.
[33:09.380 --> 33:13.420]  The government has that power in order to prevent security threats from entering the country.
[33:13.460 --> 33:22.220]  But here, they're clearly exploiting and abusing it in order to conduct investigative searches, which would ordinarily require a search warrant, but for which they have no basis to obtain one.
[33:22.700 --> 33:25.000]  And that's really what's happening here.
[33:25.200 --> 33:26.420]  They're cheating.
[33:26.420 --> 33:29.200]  They're going around the system, and they're abusing their power.
[33:29.360 --> 33:30.660]  And we've seen it so many times before.
[33:31.060 --> 33:34.040]  And it's particularly disturbing in this case.
[33:34.500 --> 33:42.800]  Somebody who simply is involved in the Bradley Manning support group is being harassed like this and probably will be harassed every time he enters the country.
[33:43.740 --> 33:44.220]  Emmanuel?
[33:44.380 --> 33:44.540]  Yes.
[33:44.940 --> 33:46.960]  I foresee something.
[33:47.540 --> 33:55.520]  This is a dangerous thought, but it's entirely possible, and our government has done worse things, to declare WikiLeaks a terrorist organization.
[33:56.040 --> 34:07.500]  A very recent Supreme Court ruling said that there is already a federal felony called material support of a terrorist organization.
[34:08.020 --> 34:18.300]  And the United States has declared, like, Hamas, or Hezbollah, rather, a terrorist organization.
[34:18.300 --> 34:29.200]  And their television network, Al Minar, you know, we aired a story a few years ago about somebody was providing just satellite TV receivers to watch Al Minar.
[34:29.860 --> 34:42.440]  And he was sentenced to several years in federal prison just for simply providing people with access to a TV channel of what the U.S.
[34:42.500 --> 34:43.840]  government called a terrorist organization.
[34:43.840 --> 34:45.220]  So if they declare, if the U.S.
[34:45.320 --> 35:04.220]  declares WikiLeaks a terrorist organization, any person who's donated money, who after that law has passed, donates money to WikiLeaks, or does any kind of, just minor support, writing code, or a spokesperson, any of those people, could be immediately arrested on felony charges.
[35:04.640 --> 35:07.040]  And that would be a nuclear option for the U.S.
[35:07.120 --> 35:09.120]  government, but it wouldn't surprise me if this happened.
[35:10.760 --> 35:11.240]  Okay.
[35:11.240 --> 35:12.680]  I'm going to lay this out.
[35:12.760 --> 35:21.540]  Best practice for anyone traveling overseas, no matter how much interest there may or may not be in you, don't keep your only copy of anything on your laptop or other mobile devices.
[35:22.140 --> 35:32.120]  While you're overseas, before you take your flight back, upload everything back to a safe website, a web server, FTP, you know, whatever.
[35:32.580 --> 35:34.920]  Transmit it back to yourself so you can pick it up when you get home.
[35:35.600 --> 35:42.280]  Then you can restore your laptop to, you know, from a live CD or anything else, you know, have it fresh and empty and clean.
[35:44.600 --> 35:46.660]  And there will be nothing for people to find on it.
[35:46.760 --> 35:52.300]  And, you know, every time something like this happens, I feel it's important to strike back in whatever way you can.
[35:52.300 --> 35:57.760]  And in this particular case, this is a story we might not have been talking about tonight had this not happened.
[35:58.120 --> 36:05.660]  But I'd like to give out the web address for the Bradley Manning support group, which is www.bradleymanning.org.
[36:05.660 --> 36:09.440]  That's B-R-A-D-L-E-Y-M-A-N-N-I-N-G dot O-R-G.
[36:09.640 --> 36:11.840]  And there you can donate.
[36:11.960 --> 36:14.500]  You can help out in all sorts of different ways.
[36:14.500 --> 36:22.740]  And I'd like to think if every time something like this happens, 10 more people join as a result and help out when ordinarily they might not have heard about it.
[36:22.940 --> 36:27.480]  I think that's a good statement every time we see injustice.
[36:27.480 --> 36:36.550]  But I'd also like to ask those of you who travel, have you considered what might happen to you entering this country and having somebody demand your laptop?
[36:37.160 --> 36:40.960]  And not only your laptop, but your passwords and encryption keys and things like that.
[36:41.720 --> 36:51.700]  But when Kyle and I were at the border in Vermont a few weeks ago being interrogated, I knew that was a possibility that that might happen.
[36:51.900 --> 37:02.860]  And I'm pretty certain in my mind, I can't say until it actually happens, I'm pretty certain in my mind I would be obstinate in refusing to give them this information, refusing to give them a password or any kind of passphrase or anything like that.
[37:03.120 --> 37:03.840]  Hardware is one thing.
[37:03.920 --> 37:07.280]  They can take whatever they want, forcibly, if they choose.
[37:07.280 --> 37:14.220]  But as far as actually getting information out of you, that's something they simply do not have the right to.
[37:14.800 --> 37:19.820]  But have we all thought this through as to what we would do in such a situation?
[37:20.020 --> 37:22.140]  And maybe I'm taking it too far.
[37:22.320 --> 37:24.860]  Is it something that maybe I shouldn't be afraid to give them?
[37:25.200 --> 37:25.360]  Is that right?
[37:25.580 --> 37:33.900]  In my personal opinion, just based on the principles of what this country is supposed to be based on, you know, you shouldn't have to say that.
[37:33.900 --> 37:39.380]  And, you know, people start getting scared and they start giving in because an authority figure is talking to them.
[37:39.540 --> 37:40.900]  And this does happen a lot.
[37:41.000 --> 37:43.040]  People are scared and they'll comply.
[37:43.420 --> 37:46.240]  The result eventually happens is they think, okay, I can do this.
[37:46.280 --> 37:47.360]  And they do more and more and more.
[37:47.480 --> 37:50.660]  And before you know it, you're living in a country you'd rather not live in.
[37:50.760 --> 37:57.920]  And people think that because they say, you have to give me your password, that that's the law, that you do have to give them your password.
[37:58.300 --> 38:03.580]  And then before you know it, people believe that that is true, just like people believe that you have to carry ID on you at all times.
[38:03.580 --> 38:07.000]  It's perception, and it's pulling the wool over people's eyes.
[38:07.100 --> 38:14.120]  There's one other thing I'd like to add, based on what you just said, is, you know, a good practice is to at least know something about the law.
[38:14.280 --> 38:26.260]  You know, if you're going to travel, then maybe you should look into, you know, what the border officials are allowed and not allowed to do in both the country you're coming to and coming from.
[38:26.380 --> 38:30.440]  Well, that's where I profess a little ignorance here, because actually, I'm not sure, Bernie, maybe you can answer this.
[38:30.600 --> 38:31.620]  Is it in fact the law?
[38:31.760 --> 38:32.520]  Can they do this?
[38:32.520 --> 38:34.020]  Can they do what exactly?
[38:34.020 --> 38:35.880]  Can they demand your password?
[38:36.000 --> 38:37.640]  Are you required to give them your password?
[38:37.980 --> 38:43.820]  You are not required to, but that doesn't mean they can't give you a hard time.
[38:44.040 --> 38:59.420]  Now, if you're asked to testify before a grand jury and you don't provide it, you could be found in contempt of court, because in a grand jury, they've got to provide you with immunity and that sort of thing.
[38:59.900 --> 39:01.680]  So it's a gray area.
[39:01.800 --> 39:04.100]  There's not been any court testing of this.
[39:04.260 --> 39:05.800]  I hope there's a test of this.
[39:05.960 --> 39:07.740]  I have a feeling I'm going to be the test at some point.
[39:07.820 --> 39:08.620]  I just have that feeling.
[39:08.940 --> 39:10.740]  It just seems to be moving in that direction.
[39:11.720 --> 39:19.080]  Well, the other thing, and this is something that I believe Jacob Applebaum did, was simply not have anything on him that was vital.
[39:19.520 --> 39:22.120]  Basically, you can transfer files in a number of different ways.
[39:22.120 --> 39:24.260]  You can mail things separately.
[39:24.880 --> 39:30.260]  You don't have to have all of your information on you so that even if they do take things, you won't be hurt by it.
[39:30.320 --> 39:34.780]  Of course, it's always fun to make them think you have all kinds of things on you and have them waste a lot of time.
[39:35.240 --> 39:35.600]  That's...
[39:35.600 --> 39:38.680]  They don't really have good senses of humor in the department.
[39:38.680 --> 39:39.880]  They wouldn't be the ones laughing.
[39:40.180 --> 39:40.920]  We would be.
[39:41.100 --> 39:49.020]  And as they struggle for years to crack your encryption scheme to see your, I don't know, digital copies of National Geographic that you have stored.
[39:49.300 --> 39:49.980]  Who knows?
[39:50.120 --> 39:51.320]  Hey, I don't want them getting that.
[39:51.940 --> 39:52.340]  Encrypted.
[39:52.560 --> 39:52.820]  Rob?
[39:52.940 --> 40:03.700]  I think if you've got an extra USB thumb drive, I think people should just put, like, random data on there and then encrypt it.
[40:03.700 --> 40:04.420]  Yeah.
[40:05.340 --> 40:08.080]  And then bring it through and then give that to them.
[40:08.440 --> 40:13.420]  And name it all kinds of things, too, like targets.txt or something.
[40:13.920 --> 40:16.380]  No, targets.pgp, I guess, is what you have to name it.
[40:16.600 --> 40:19.860]  Really make them earn their pay trying to make something out of it.
[40:20.260 --> 40:20.540]  Yeah.
[40:20.720 --> 40:26.040]  There's a mode in Emacs, I forget what it's called, but it lets you do, like, scary information and it automatically generates it.
[40:26.200 --> 40:29.720]  Like, there's a scary buzzer, like terrorist bomb and stuff like that.
[40:29.720 --> 40:36.700]  This is different than unnecessarily frightening people with stupid jokes in airports and things like that.
[40:36.840 --> 40:38.120]  They're not people, they're TSA.
[40:38.300 --> 40:38.500]  Yeah.
[40:39.540 --> 40:41.180]  Well, I'm not even addressing that.
[40:41.280 --> 40:47.020]  But I'm talking about people overreacting when they hear somebody make a stupid joke about bombs or something like that.
[40:47.320 --> 40:48.480]  Yeah, I can sort of understand that.
[40:48.560 --> 40:50.400]  But this is for people that have invaded your privacy.
[40:50.540 --> 40:55.820]  They've gotten to a point they should not be at and they're seeing things that are going to make them wet their pants in excitement.
[40:56.460 --> 40:59.520]  Yeah, you know what, the gloves are off there too.
[40:59.700 --> 41:02.380]  And you can do things like this, I think, with justification.
[41:02.600 --> 41:02.700]  Rob?
[41:02.860 --> 41:10.580]  And there's a lot of creep there because as our dependence on gadgets and technology grows, I think most people don't realize exactly how much they're giving up.
[41:10.660 --> 41:13.280]  You give the password to your phone or your laptop and that's everything.
[41:13.380 --> 41:14.460]  Your whole life could be in this box.
[41:14.900 --> 41:28.760]  If it were 30 years ago and to get on a plane, you had to not only give them your written diary and written address book, but copies of every letter and parcel that you've sent in your life and all your family photos and everything like that.
[41:28.820 --> 41:31.720]  And imagine if our government wasn't as nice as it is.
[41:31.920 --> 41:35.300]  Imagine if it was a nasty government, maybe even a dictatorial government.
[41:35.660 --> 41:38.040]  All kinds of horrible things they could do.
[41:38.160 --> 41:41.200]  Imagine this in the hands of the Nazis, this kind of technology.
[41:41.200 --> 41:47.640]  And you have to think that way because every government at some point is going to go in that direction and you're giving them all this power.
[41:48.120 --> 41:49.500]  How are they going to misuse it?
[41:49.560 --> 41:57.500]  That's why we have to know how to misuse technology before it gets misused so that we can not give too much away in situations like this.
[41:58.300 --> 41:59.220]  You'll see into Off the Hook.
[41:59.400 --> 42:03.320]  We're going to take phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[42:03.580 --> 42:05.920]  Love to hear views of people out there.
[42:05.920 --> 42:12.340]  And while we're wandering around inside the airport, there's a story that came out this week about those new airport scanners.
[42:12.440 --> 42:15.280]  I understand JFK has the full-body scanners.
[42:15.560 --> 42:16.220]  That's what I'm told.
[42:16.300 --> 42:17.020]  They're one of the airports.
[42:17.820 --> 42:21.100]  And in fact, I'm going out of JFK later this year.
[42:21.220 --> 42:23.020]  And that'll be interesting to see what happens there.
[42:23.620 --> 42:28.900]  But apparently, there are all kinds of safety questions now in addition to privacy questions.
[42:31.720 --> 42:34.280]  Basically, a bunch of people.
[42:36.100 --> 42:37.440]  UCSF, which is...
[42:37.440 --> 42:38.260]  What is that again?
[42:39.820 --> 42:42.080]  You perked up like you had an answer for me.
[42:42.500 --> 42:42.900]  UCSF?
[42:42.960 --> 42:43.220]  Yeah.
[42:44.380 --> 42:45.180]  UCSF colleagues.
[42:45.420 --> 42:47.420]  But that doesn't say in the story what UCSF is.
[42:47.520 --> 42:49.340]  Is that the union of stewardesses?
[42:49.340 --> 42:50.180]  Those are...
[42:50.180 --> 42:53.220]  Well, they wrote a letter to...
[42:53.220 --> 42:55.060]  Yeah, to the pilot's union.
[42:55.240 --> 42:57.220]  Yeah, the president's science advisor.
[42:58.160 --> 43:00.340]  Yeah, there's no indication what UCSF is.
[43:00.740 --> 43:06.720]  Asking for a more thorough look at the risks of exposing all these airline passengers to x-rays.
[43:07.380 --> 43:14.540]  Ionizing radiation, such as the x-rays used in these scanners, have the potential to induce chromosome damage, which can lead to cancer.
[43:14.540 --> 43:18.720]  The San Francisco group thinks both the machine's manufacturer, which...
[43:18.720 --> 43:19.740]  Does anybody know the name of the manufacturer?
[43:20.640 --> 43:21.080]  GE?
[43:21.480 --> 43:22.040]  No, no.
[43:22.040 --> 43:23.000]  It's got a really cool name.
[43:23.300 --> 43:23.820]  Acme?
[43:24.040 --> 43:24.540]  No, no.
[43:24.720 --> 43:25.200]  L3?
[43:25.580 --> 43:26.400]  No, no.
[43:27.200 --> 43:27.720]  Rappiscan.
[43:29.400 --> 43:29.920]  Rappiscan.
[43:30.260 --> 43:37.620]  Government officials have miscalculated the dose that the x-ray scanners deliver to the skin, where nearly all the radiation is concentrated.
[43:37.620 --> 43:40.840]  The stated dose, about 0.2...
[43:40.840 --> 43:42.440]  Oh boy, I've never said this word in my life.
[43:42.580 --> 43:43.600]  Micro sieverts?
[43:44.020 --> 43:44.960]  Did I say it right?
[43:45.620 --> 43:53.860]  Micro sieverts, which is the medical unit of radiation, is averaged over the whole body, said members of the UCSF group.
[43:54.400 --> 44:00.100]  But they maintain that if the dose is calculated as what gets deposited in the skin, the number would be higher.
[44:00.460 --> 44:02.160]  Though how much higher is unclear.
[44:02.280 --> 44:03.640]  The point is, they don't know.
[44:03.640 --> 44:10.240]  They don't know the true risk here, and that's yet another reason to avoid these things and go for the groping instead, because that's what you're going to get if you don't go through the machine.
[44:10.360 --> 44:12.680]  They've apparently upgraded the amount of groping that you get.
[44:12.740 --> 44:16.340]  They're going to do a lot of groping in places that you'd rather not be groped, I understand.
[44:16.620 --> 44:17.360]  But you know what?
[44:17.360 --> 44:23.160]  I'd rather suffer that indignity than suffer the silent indignity and not know the effects of this for years down the road.
[44:24.800 --> 44:29.240]  Apparently there's two kinds of machines, and only one kind of machine does this, and the other kind doesn't.
[44:29.300 --> 44:30.800]  But it's kind of irrelevant.
[44:31.060 --> 44:31.820]  Was it a placebo machine?
[44:31.820 --> 44:36.580]  No, no, they have different kinds of radiation, only one of which is potentially harmful.
[44:37.600 --> 44:37.960]  But...
[44:37.960 --> 44:39.840]  Why don't they use the unharmon for one and both, then?
[44:39.920 --> 44:41.040]  The government doesn't care about you.
[44:43.160 --> 44:48.300]  But, you know, they're looking at pictures of you naked, and if you decline to be looked at naked, then they grope you.
[44:48.440 --> 44:49.720]  It's kind of not a good choice.
[44:49.740 --> 44:51.400]  At least with groping, they don't store the pictures.
[44:51.740 --> 44:53.140]  In their memories, they do.
[44:54.140 --> 44:55.000]  In their memories.
[44:56.120 --> 44:58.740]  212-209-2900 is our telephone.
[44:58.800 --> 44:59.980]  What's all this tape on the phone?
[45:00.060 --> 45:00.980]  Every single line is broken?
[45:01.100 --> 45:01.680]  I don't think so.
[45:01.680 --> 45:03.340]  I think someone just bought some tape.
[45:03.580 --> 45:04.040]  Okay.
[45:04.040 --> 45:06.500]  Well, I'm going to remove the tape if these lines are working.
[45:06.660 --> 45:07.420]  Let's take a phone call.
[45:07.540 --> 45:08.620]  212-209-2900.
[45:08.700 --> 45:08.960]  Good evening.
[45:09.040 --> 45:09.600]  You're on Off the Hook.
[45:10.320 --> 45:10.600]  Hi.
[45:10.600 --> 45:13.240]  I want to talk about the machine.
[45:13.540 --> 45:14.020]  Go ahead.
[45:14.080 --> 45:14.500]  You're on the air.
[45:14.700 --> 45:23.000]  How can you x-ray all the suitcases that goes into the cargo of the plane?
[45:24.040 --> 45:25.000]  This is...
[45:25.000 --> 45:27.660]  Any of the suitcase can carry a bomb.
[45:27.920 --> 45:31.480]  I travel all around the world, especially in Asia.
[45:31.680 --> 45:33.200]  They don't check anything.
[45:33.360 --> 45:35.420]  And I'm virtually doing anything.
[45:35.640 --> 45:35.960]  Yeah.
[45:36.080 --> 45:41.140]  In fact, there was a bomb a couple of weeks ago, apparently, on the scanned luggage.
[45:41.680 --> 45:41.960]  I know.
[45:41.960 --> 45:43.020]  In the eyes of a printer toner.
[45:43.520 --> 45:44.100]  Well, that was...
[45:44.100 --> 45:50.240]  But in Asia, they don't check anything, physically or the suitcases.
[45:50.620 --> 45:52.300]  How this country will be safe.
[45:52.560 --> 45:59.260]  And I can tell you, anybody from Asia can carry a bomb in the luggage and be a martyr and die.
[45:59.440 --> 46:00.340]  This is one thing.
[46:00.440 --> 46:01.660]  And the second thing is...
[46:01.660 --> 46:03.820]  Well, they don't have to be a martyr if they don't get on the plane.
[46:04.400 --> 46:07.320]  I mean, they will blow up with the plane, with everybody.
[46:07.480 --> 46:10.720]  Put the bomb in the suitcase and they can get on top and they'll be dying.
[46:10.720 --> 46:22.560]  And then, second thing is, it is good that they do all these, but the best way to do it, travel naked with underwear and a tie.
[46:23.000 --> 46:23.260]  Uh-huh.
[46:23.400 --> 46:24.300]  Under and a tie.
[46:24.440 --> 46:25.560]  Isn't that the best thing to do?
[46:25.800 --> 46:27.340]  It could be the underwear bombs.
[46:27.460 --> 46:28.420]  You can't even wear underwear.
[46:28.760 --> 46:35.120]  I like the guy who traveled with a big mask on and pretended to be an 80-year-old guy and he was actually a 20-year-old Asian guy.
[46:35.120 --> 46:36.640]  They look nothing like...
[46:36.640 --> 46:38.540]  Now, let me get to the real point.
[46:38.620 --> 46:54.100]  The real point is, in Muslims, it was the burqa, and those people who wear the burqa, they can be a terrorist, a possible terrorist, anywhere in the world because you get a huge address and you can hide anything.
[46:54.100 --> 46:58.700]  And if you want to tell them anything against it, they're going to say it's a huge crime.
[46:58.900 --> 47:02.440]  How do you handle that?
[47:03.140 --> 47:06.140]  Well, we're moving into some murky territory.
[47:06.320 --> 47:07.680]  I'll give Dot Red a chance for this one.
[47:07.980 --> 47:08.660]  Well, yeah.
[47:08.780 --> 47:12.480]  Obviously, there's some areas that we probably just don't want to touch, but very simply...
[47:12.480 --> 47:13.340]  I'll touch them.
[47:13.440 --> 47:15.080]  It's just we don't have enough time to touch them.
[47:15.180 --> 47:24.780]  If you walk through a machine that uses these millimeter... whatever kind of radiation, it doesn't matter what you're wearing.
[47:24.860 --> 47:25.900]  They'll see right through it.
[47:26.180 --> 47:26.680]  You know?
[47:27.100 --> 47:28.900]  And unless you don't want...
[47:28.900 --> 47:33.340]  You said that if you don't go through the machine, they will grope you, in which case, you have a choice.
[47:33.520 --> 47:35.120]  And if you don't like it, then you can't travel.
[47:35.540 --> 47:35.900]  Right.
[47:36.460 --> 47:36.820]  Okay.
[47:36.940 --> 47:37.200]  And yeah.
[47:37.380 --> 47:37.640]  All right.
[47:37.940 --> 47:39.220]  Let's move on to another call then.
[47:39.400 --> 47:39.720]  Good evening.
[47:39.840 --> 47:40.400]  You're on Off the Hook.
[47:41.480 --> 47:43.540]  I have a caller ID question.
[47:43.780 --> 47:44.940]  You have a caller ID question?
[47:45.040 --> 47:45.240]  Go ahead.
[47:45.440 --> 47:45.580]  Yes, sir.
[47:45.640 --> 47:45.860]  Okay.
[47:46.240 --> 47:53.160]  Now, I know that my line is blocked, so if I call somebody on a cell phone, it shows up as a private call.
[47:53.300 --> 47:53.520]  Right.
[47:53.560 --> 47:54.860]  You have caller ID blocking installed.
[47:54.860 --> 47:54.980]  Right.
[47:55.220 --> 48:00.980]  But if you call the cops or you call Land's End, they must be an alternate mechanism.
[48:01.740 --> 48:02.440]  Land's End?
[48:02.700 --> 48:02.900]  Yeah.
[48:02.980 --> 48:06.280]  You know, like if you call up any of the 800 numbers or...
[48:06.280 --> 48:06.680]  Oh, okay.
[48:06.700 --> 48:06.860]  Yeah.
[48:06.880 --> 48:09.860]  Because that uses A&I technology, not caller ID technology.
[48:09.980 --> 48:10.540]  Different technology.
[48:10.840 --> 48:12.080]  Which actually really surprised me.
[48:12.100 --> 48:13.240]  I have a friend who's in India.
[48:13.620 --> 48:15.340]  And I went to...
[48:15.340 --> 48:17.080]  And I'll listen to the answer off the air.
[48:17.080 --> 48:27.720]  I went and bought a $10 phone card, and I called him in India from my home phone, and he answers the phone, and he says, oh, hi.
[48:27.820 --> 48:30.320]  And he calls me by my name, and I said, how'd you know who it is?
[48:30.360 --> 48:33.900]  And he said, I'm looking at my cell phone that I rented here in India.
[48:34.080 --> 48:35.120]  Your phone number shows up.
[48:36.820 --> 48:40.580]  So the A&I goes through phone cards?
[48:40.920 --> 48:42.700]  It depends how they have it set up.
[48:42.780 --> 48:45.080]  A&I can be transmitted through any phone call.
[48:45.080 --> 48:53.060]  It is transmitted, but it can be displayed depending on if they pass that data through to the end user, the end customer.
[48:53.200 --> 49:01.580]  Isn't that a little bizarre that domestic phone calls, your phone number doesn't show up except to like, you know, Land's End or Victoria's Secret or something?
[49:01.740 --> 49:07.120]  But if you call any third world country and somebody has a cell phone, the number's going to show up?
[49:07.140 --> 49:08.040]  Well, it doesn't happen all the time.
[49:08.140 --> 49:11.100]  It depends on how they actually use the technology, how they're set up.
[49:11.140 --> 49:11.940]  It's probably not intentional.
[49:12.120 --> 49:13.360]  It's probably something they just overlooked.
[49:13.360 --> 49:15.840]  But yeah, this kind of thing happens all the time, Rob.
[49:16.040 --> 49:20.280]  Yeah, that's pretty much a consequence of, you know, we have control, you know...
[49:21.140 --> 49:21.620]  I'm sorry.
[49:21.760 --> 49:24.700]  Our companies have control over our phone lines in this country.
[49:24.720 --> 49:28.720]  But once you hop off of that and onto someone else's system in some other country, you're playing by their rules.
[49:28.900 --> 49:31.920]  Yeah, but you know, even in this country, there are instances where that happens.
[49:32.100 --> 49:48.160]  I know of situations where if you call a particular phone number and then that phone number transfers you someplace else, if you are receiving that phone call, it doesn't matter if the person calling the first number has blocked their number, your number will still get transmitted because for some reason,
[49:48.160 --> 49:52.020]  the next company is using A&I to transmit the number and not call their ID data.
[49:52.120 --> 49:53.260]  So it happens all the time.
[49:53.260 --> 50:00.140]  And that dialing that star 6-7 before your call might make you think you're protecting your privacy.
[50:00.160 --> 50:00.860]  It doesn't.
[50:00.940 --> 50:01.520]  It really doesn't.
[50:01.580 --> 50:02.940]  Yeah, and that's related to what I was saying.
[50:03.000 --> 50:09.900]  Because when you go through something like a phone card company or a business's private phone system, once again, you're playing by the rules of whoever owns that equipment.
[50:10.140 --> 50:13.480]  And so some of them will take your A&I, step it down to call our ID and pass it on.
[50:13.880 --> 50:14.200]  Absolutely.
[50:14.840 --> 50:16.120]  212-209-2900.
[50:16.540 --> 50:17.440]  Let's take another phone call.
[50:17.700 --> 50:18.320]  And good evening.
[50:18.400 --> 50:19.000]  You're on Off the Hook.
[50:19.360 --> 50:20.440]  Oops, I guess you're not.
[50:20.620 --> 50:20.980]  Hang on.
[50:21.060 --> 50:22.220]  Let's take a call over here.
[50:22.380 --> 50:22.740]  Good evening.
[50:22.740 --> 50:23.520]  You're on Off the Hook.
[50:24.760 --> 50:25.440]  Go ahead.
[50:25.680 --> 50:26.320]  Yeah, hello.
[50:26.740 --> 50:30.800]  You know, this is classic when people admit to things they didn't do.
[50:31.220 --> 50:39.920]  Frankly, there was a show on Frontline last night about six, I believe six or four guys, four guys, I believe, called the Norfolk Four.
[50:40.120 --> 50:52.600]  They were in the service and they got convicted of rape and, of course, categorized it a bunch of times, categorized as sex offenders and couldn't reverse their cases easily.
[50:52.740 --> 50:55.940]  And even if they did, they're still categorized as sex offenders.
[50:56.240 --> 50:58.240]  They literally stay in their bedrooms.
[50:58.680 --> 51:08.500]  They had nothing to do with the guy who is the perpetrator of the crime, is the actual guy that admits guilt.
[51:10.220 --> 51:12.060]  And it can't be undone.
[51:12.180 --> 51:14.480]  It's just a pathetic miscarriage of justice.
[51:14.480 --> 51:15.740]  It's a Frontline episode.
[51:16.000 --> 51:21.520]  Well, yeah, I mean, that's a law that basically is misused all the time.
[51:21.640 --> 51:29.980]  It preys on people's emotions, what parent wouldn't want to know about sex offenders living in their neighborhood, but then they fail to define what a sex offender actually is.
[51:30.040 --> 51:35.940]  It could be somebody caught looking at the wrong kind of pictures or it could be somebody who's convicted of the worst possible crime imaginable.
[51:35.940 --> 51:39.620]  The thing that gets me is that you get these notices.
[51:40.060 --> 51:48.520]  Homeowners get these notices saying, hey, there's a sex offender over there and you can buy all kinds of rocks and shaving cream and toilet paper for his house at this particular store or whatever.
[51:48.720 --> 51:50.560]  I don't know what it is they expect you to do with that information.
[51:51.380 --> 51:58.940]  But if a murderer gets let out of prison or an armed robber or somebody like that and they're living in your neighborhood, you don't find out about that.
[51:59.140 --> 52:02.400]  And I think that's something that people should be concerned about as well.
[52:02.900 --> 52:03.800]  Doesn't that make sense?
[52:03.800 --> 52:06.120]  So you think there should be more of these kinds of notifications?
[52:06.120 --> 52:08.620]  I'm just saying the logic is flawed from the start.
[52:08.780 --> 52:11.420]  If they really cared, then yes, they would do it for all these other people.
[52:11.460 --> 52:13.760]  No, I think it's a flawed system from the beginning.
[52:14.940 --> 52:17.680]  And this just goes to show what they're preying on.
[52:17.760 --> 52:17.980]  Voltaire?
[52:18.040 --> 52:23.640]  Also, the vast majority of sexual offenses are like minors come from people in the family.
[52:23.800 --> 52:33.020]  And so it's just like an excuse to, instead of adding more social services and bettering society, they blame the minority of offenders.
[52:34.020 --> 52:36.640]  All right, that's another story we can talk about for a long, long time.
[52:36.740 --> 52:39.160]  But we have other fish to fry.
[52:39.340 --> 52:39.640]  Good evening.
[52:39.820 --> 52:40.600]  You're on off the hook.
[52:42.060 --> 52:42.860]  Speak up, please.
[52:43.440 --> 52:44.100]  Yes, hi.
[52:45.220 --> 52:48.600]  Just wanted to thank you guys for another nice show.
[52:49.100 --> 52:52.360]  About the security, I mean, at the airport.
[52:52.920 --> 52:58.420]  I put through the airport about three weeks ago, and I didn't experience that.
[52:58.520 --> 53:06.800]  But I heard on the news, I think it was yesterday or the day before, that some pilots are on strike.
[53:06.800 --> 53:15.360]  They're not going to be, they want to go through this check thing with the scanner and also the padded down because it apparently affected one of them.
[53:15.700 --> 53:24.280]  But I think the reason why they're patting you down, so they're probably going to do it a certain way to discourage you from going through the padded down.
[53:24.460 --> 53:30.840]  And they probably want people to go through the x-ray machine more than just the padded down because it requires more people.
[53:31.120 --> 53:37.120]  And also, it's probably less, you know, less, you know, less technological.
[53:37.520 --> 53:41.680]  Did you say that the pilots were objecting to going through the machine?
[53:41.680 --> 53:47.260]  Yeah, some pilots objected to be, to go through the padded down, I believe, or either the x-ray.
[53:47.380 --> 53:50.480]  I think it's the padded down because one of them was padded down so badly.
[53:50.960 --> 53:57.500]  Or, you know, it's really, it makes you feel, I don't know why, but it makes you feel like you've been raped or something.
[53:57.520 --> 53:59.060]  Yeah, let me see if I, well, let me see if I understand this.
[53:59.180 --> 54:03.380]  Basically, the pilots are being searched for, I guess, weapons or something like that.
[54:03.460 --> 54:08.060]  These are the people that are going to be controlling the airplane and can make it do whatever they want to do.
[54:08.160 --> 54:10.220]  And they're checking them to see if they have anything on them.
[54:10.280 --> 54:11.100]  That doesn't make any sense.
[54:11.100 --> 54:12.060]  Yes, I was surprised.
[54:12.100 --> 54:15.920]  That was on, I think, two nights ago, it was in one of the news.
[54:16.100 --> 54:18.320]  I think it was PBS 13.
[54:19.380 --> 54:30.180]  But, yes, but I have, you know, if they are going to pad you down, if you choose not to go through the x-ray and get padded down, they're probably going to do it in a certain way to discard you from going through the padded down procedure.
[54:30.780 --> 54:32.780]  Because a lot of you go through the x-ray, I believe.
[54:33.720 --> 54:40.660]  Well, thank God we keep those, thanks for your call, but thank God we keep those pilots from bringing bombs on board when they're only going to be piloting the damn aircraft in the first place.
[54:40.660 --> 54:42.400]  Pilots can't bring bottles of water, either.
[54:43.120 --> 54:43.860]  You're kidding me.
[54:43.960 --> 54:44.120]  No.
[54:44.220 --> 54:44.640]  This is what I mean.
[54:44.640 --> 54:46.160]  They go through the same thing as the rest of it.
[54:46.700 --> 54:47.340]  It's brilliant.
[54:47.660 --> 54:49.220]  Yeah, the whole thing is insane.
[54:49.340 --> 54:49.540]  All right.
[54:50.260 --> 54:51.080]  Let's take another phone call.
[54:51.080 --> 54:53.320]  212-209-2900.
[54:53.460 --> 54:54.140]  Good evening.
[54:54.340 --> 54:54.940]  You're on off the hook.
[54:56.320 --> 54:57.080]  Speak up, please.
[54:57.320 --> 54:57.760]  Hi.
[54:58.040 --> 54:58.300]  Hey.
[54:58.500 --> 54:58.820]  Hi.
[54:58.920 --> 54:59.420]  Hey, guys.
[54:59.580 --> 55:00.460]  It's a call from California.
[55:01.060 --> 55:01.520]  How you doing?
[55:02.140 --> 55:02.560]  How you doing?
[55:02.980 --> 55:07.900]  You guys hear about the actress that was stabbed earlier tonight in Central Park?
[55:08.080 --> 55:08.520]  The what?
[55:09.000 --> 55:10.320]  The actress, Reese?
[55:11.600 --> 55:12.460]  Uh, no.
[55:13.160 --> 55:13.940]  I don't remember her name.
[55:14.080 --> 55:14.340]  Reese.
[55:14.860 --> 55:16.120]  I have no idea what you're talking about.
[55:16.120 --> 55:17.200]  Holy smoke.
[55:17.600 --> 55:18.040]  All right.
[55:18.180 --> 55:20.360]  Hey, you guys, uh, what do you guys charge to haunt the house?
[55:20.560 --> 55:21.020]  I'm sorry?
[55:21.580 --> 55:23.960]  How much do you guys charge to haunt the house?
[55:24.120 --> 55:24.960]  How much do we charge?
[55:25.100 --> 55:26.700]  You know, I think you're in another dimension.
[55:26.700 --> 55:28.600]  I'm not sure why you're even calling us.
[55:28.940 --> 55:32.060]  And certainly that connection stands for improvement.
[55:32.700 --> 55:33.240]  All right.
[55:33.420 --> 55:38.200]  People could, uh, check out our friend John's, uh, research on haunted houses.
[55:38.440 --> 55:38.680]  Go ahead.
[55:38.720 --> 55:40.660]  He did, uh, an ultrasonic experiment.
[55:40.900 --> 55:46.100]  And Bernie, maybe you know a little more about it, uh, in the haunted house that he, he runs every year.
[55:46.440 --> 55:46.760]  Bernie?
[55:47.000 --> 55:47.720]  We lost Bernie.
[55:47.900 --> 55:48.140]  Bernie's gone.
[55:48.300 --> 55:49.300]  That button wasn't pressed.
[55:49.540 --> 55:49.760]  Oh.
[55:49.960 --> 55:50.520]  Oh, boy.
[55:50.740 --> 55:50.900]  Hmm.
[55:51.080 --> 55:53.440]  Well, now you gave it information that you don't have the rest of the information for.
[55:53.540 --> 55:54.020]  You see?
[55:54.460 --> 55:55.160]  That's, um...
[55:55.160 --> 55:56.480]  His website is Control Geek.
[55:56.620 --> 55:57.000]  All right.
[55:57.080 --> 55:57.860]  Control Geek dot what?
[55:58.260 --> 55:58.840]  I don't know.
[55:58.920 --> 55:59.180]  All right.
[55:59.260 --> 56:00.260]  Well, somebody can find that.
[56:00.320 --> 56:00.580]  Good evening.
[56:00.640 --> 56:01.200]  You're on Off the Hook.
[56:01.720 --> 56:02.040]  Yes.
[56:02.120 --> 56:04.240]  I'd like to mention that there are a lot of...
[56:04.240 --> 56:06.820]  Rebel, it's been such a long time since we've heard your cheery voice.
[56:06.880 --> 56:07.400]  Where have you been?
[56:07.480 --> 56:08.840]  Everyone's asking about you at the meetings.
[56:09.300 --> 56:09.580]  Yeah.
[56:09.720 --> 56:13.120]  Well, you know, uh, the meetings, logging into the city court center is like...
[56:13.120 --> 56:14.400]  It really was nice catching up.
[56:14.520 --> 56:15.980]  Let's, uh, do this again sometime soon.
[56:16.220 --> 56:17.100]  Let's take another phone call.
[56:17.160 --> 56:17.340]  Good evening.
[56:17.420 --> 56:18.040]  You're on Off the Hook.
[56:18.920 --> 56:19.300]  Hi.
[56:19.520 --> 56:19.700]  Hi.
[56:20.020 --> 56:23.500]  Uh, can I avoid both options by simply getting naked?
[56:24.380 --> 56:26.440]  Uh, that's something you'll have to ask your pastor.
[56:26.760 --> 56:27.720]  We're out of time.
[56:28.920 --> 56:29.520]  Uh, write to us.
[56:29.680 --> 56:31.740]  O-T-H at 2600 dot com.
[56:32.260 --> 56:33.500]  Boy, this has been a fun show.
[56:33.840 --> 56:35.540]  We won't be on next week, unfortunately.
[56:35.540 --> 56:42.700]  We're preempted for, uh, for a, uh, Pacifica National Archive fundraiser, but we will be back in two weeks for a special Thanksgiving show.
[56:43.320 --> 56:45.540]  Until then, uh, have a good night.
[56:47.050 --> 56:51.930]  We'll be right back.
[56:51.970 --> 57:07.070]  We'll be right back.
[57:07.070 --> 57:17.230]  We are just around the corner in the east, we said the whole club's and then...
[57:17.230 --> 57:22.450]  La, cha-la, in a well-known place that beats you bit.
[57:23.030 --> 57:31.510]  La, cha-la, in a place of blue and the light of the screen, who wants the speech of an animal scream?
[58:01.300 --> 58:10.020]  I told someone to love, you know, to everybody that we know.
[58:10.520 --> 58:16.600]  We are, we are, loosing the radio under the spamza.
[58:25.360 --> 58:28.360]  John and I are marching, oh, I get her.
[58:28.460 --> 58:29.900]  We are, shut
[58:39.520 --> 58:48.260]  up, you call them no time, from twang in the twound, the shadows keep on falling, we're John and I are marching home.
[58:48.260 --> 58:49.400]  Oh,
[59:19.020 --> 59:20.640]  wow, these guys rock.
[59:21.040 --> 59:25.780]  You know, these guys, you know, that had the show before us, they're off the hook.
[59:26.560 --> 59:29.640]  You know, I tell you, they really are.
[59:30.720 --> 59:31.480]  Oh, yeah.
[59:31.980 --> 59:32.160]  Yep.
[59:32.320 --> 59:40.560]  So besides the fact, I understand there's some wonderful changes happening at WBAI.
[59:41.240 --> 59:46.680]  So, you know, the more things change, the more they remain the same.