[00:00.000 --> 00:15.060]  Thirteen years in the making, this hardcover book with period photographs reveals the pivotal role that the fight for justice for black women raped by white men in the South played, informing the early networks that later led to the civil rights movement.
[00:15.320 --> 00:20.420]  It brings to light black women's organizing and shows us who Rosa Parks really was.
[00:20.680 --> 00:23.940]  So tune in on Wednesday, May 4th at 9 p.m.
[00:24.000 --> 00:29.040]  for a show you won't want to miss about a book that will make you see history in a whole new light.
[00:32.900 --> 00:36.140]  And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI New York.
[00:36.300 --> 00:37.860]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[00:38.020 --> 00:39.860]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:45.210 --> 00:49.670]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:50.610 --> 00:52.650]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:53.170 --> 00:55.230]  Now I can't make a cough.
[00:55.810 --> 00:58.010]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:00.570 --> 01:03.430]  A billy bump for the best, expect the worst.
[01:04.050 --> 01:05.970]  I hope that's understood.
[01:06.130 --> 01:06.990]  But make me move!
[02:57.440 --> 02:58.080]  And I'm in the studio right now.
[02:58.240 --> 02:59.160]  And then we have Bernie on the phone.
[03:00.280 --> 03:06.060]  This is kind of a special program because we're really focusing on one topic and one topic alone.
[03:06.520 --> 03:08.760]  And it's got nothing to do with anything that's been in the news recently.
[03:09.120 --> 03:19.260]  It's got to do with our history, our passion, some of the things that we've done here on this radio show, through the magazine, and certainly at the conferences.
[03:19.260 --> 03:24.660]  And I'm referring specifically to the concept known as social engineering.
[03:25.040 --> 03:31.340]  Who here would like to explain to the good listeners out there just what precisely social engineering is?
[03:31.860 --> 03:34.100]  I would, but I'm not going to because I think someone else should.
[03:34.660 --> 03:35.780]  I think Bernie S.
[03:35.920 --> 03:36.600]  is an expert.
[03:36.880 --> 03:38.440]  Bernie, are you familiar with this?
[03:38.620 --> 03:39.480]  I'm no expert.
[03:39.480 --> 03:40.320]  I'm familiar with it.
[03:40.400 --> 03:41.060]  I'm no expert.
[03:41.060 --> 03:46.200]  Well, I don't have a prepared definition, and I'm not going to look it up in the New Hackers Dictionary.
[03:46.340 --> 04:14.580]  But I would say it is convincing someone else that you are maybe not who you say you are and convince them to do something for you, either as a prank or for more sinister purposes, to get them to do something that they would normally never think of doing,
[04:15.300 --> 04:30.180]  particularly from a standpoint of security circumvention, like getting them to give you their private information or login information or something they shouldn't be giving out.
[04:30.420 --> 04:32.060]  That's a long definition.
[04:32.740 --> 04:34.620]  Yeah, I guess that's...
[04:34.620 --> 04:37.100]  What kind of person would do that, other than us, that is?
[04:37.620 --> 04:40.440]  What's the purpose behind social engineering someone?
[04:41.520 --> 04:43.800]  I think it's to see where the holes are.
[04:43.920 --> 04:48.280]  I'm always interested in seeing that things are really secured well.
[04:48.700 --> 04:49.580]  Here's an example.
[04:49.800 --> 04:56.120]  I was coming out of BJ's Wholesale Club recently, where I buy food and things, and I was with a friend of mine.
[04:56.220 --> 04:56.860]  We share a membership.
[04:57.240 --> 05:02.120]  And they always check your receipts on the way out to see that you're not stealing stuff.
[05:02.580 --> 05:03.780]  And I don't steal stuff.
[05:04.580 --> 05:09.700]  But anyway, my friend and I, we buy our stuff separately under separate receipts.
[05:10.480 --> 05:12.480]  And we put everything in the one cart.
[05:12.760 --> 05:18.360]  So we're going out, and I said, hold on, I told my friend, just hold your receipt in your pocket.
[05:18.480 --> 05:19.380]  Don't show it to this guy.
[05:19.980 --> 05:24.400]  And I just showed him my receipt, which was for less than half the stuff in the cart.
[05:24.620 --> 05:26.800]  And he scanned through it, and I smiled at him.
[05:26.800 --> 05:27.840]  And he let us through.
[05:27.840 --> 05:29.480]  And my friend was astonished that...
[05:29.480 --> 05:32.340]  I was just testing their security to see how thorough they were.
[05:33.060 --> 05:37.460]  I didn't get him to do anything that he wouldn't normally do, which is obviously not check thoroughly.
[05:37.680 --> 05:40.580]  But I wanted to see if they really did check thoroughly, and they didn't.
[05:40.740 --> 05:41.560]  And it was just...
[05:41.560 --> 05:43.900]  I wouldn't even call that social engineering so much.
[05:43.900 --> 05:50.380]  I just didn't give him the second receipt, and it proved my point that it's all just a fake security ruse.
[05:50.600 --> 05:52.140]  Well, that is an exciting story.
[05:52.140 --> 06:14.060]  But it gets even more adventurous than that when you make telephone calls and when you actually have some humor involved in it and try to get people to give out sometimes astonishingly private, personal, sensitive information that really should not be given out.
[06:14.100 --> 06:16.000]  We've demonstrated this many times.
[06:16.000 --> 06:17.820]  And this is what we're doing tonight.
[06:17.820 --> 06:22.460]  We're going to be playing some excerpts from various HOPE conferences.
[06:22.640 --> 06:31.920]  And what we're offering, what we're offering tonight as part of our special kickoff fundraiser show, something that has never been offered before, something that cannot be found anywhere.
[06:32.080 --> 06:32.780]  It's true.
[06:32.920 --> 06:33.940]  It cannot be found anywhere.
[06:34.500 --> 06:36.940]  We know this because recently we found it.
[06:37.380 --> 06:39.900]  And we have the only copies.
[06:40.860 --> 06:43.000]  Basically, we've had eight HOPE conferences.
[06:43.160 --> 06:44.180]  The first one was in 1994.
[06:44.180 --> 06:46.720]  It was the kickoff one called Hackers on Planet Earth.
[06:46.820 --> 06:47.640]  That spelled out HOPE.
[06:47.640 --> 06:50.660]  HOPE, and then 1997, we had Beyond Hope.
[06:50.820 --> 06:53.020]  In 2000, we had H2K.
[06:53.940 --> 06:55.820]  2002, it was H2K2.
[06:56.080 --> 06:57.760]  2004, it was Mike.
[06:58.480 --> 06:59.360]  Let's see if you're paying attention.
[06:59.660 --> 06:59.900]  2004?
[07:00.160 --> 07:01.360]  Yeah, what was it called in 2004?
[07:01.680 --> 07:03.300]  Not H2K4, I'll tell you that.
[07:03.300 --> 07:04.420]  No, not H2K4.
[07:04.860 --> 07:06.420]  It was The Fifth Hope.
[07:06.520 --> 07:07.460]  That's right, The Fifth Hope.
[07:07.720 --> 07:08.960]  And 2006, Bernie?
[07:09.860 --> 07:10.840]  HOPE number six.
[07:10.920 --> 07:11.320]  Very good.
[07:11.480 --> 07:13.680]  Okay, 2008, of course, was the last HOPE.
[07:14.020 --> 07:17.180]  But it wasn't the final HOPE because 2010 was the next HOPE.
[07:17.300 --> 07:19.480]  So we have a total of eight conferences.
[07:19.860 --> 07:25.720]  And what we have done is we've plunged into our library.
[07:26.400 --> 07:29.160]  We've rescued our library, in fact, from decay.
[07:29.660 --> 07:39.940]  And we're starting the process of making brand new DVDs out of the previous conferences that have never been offered on DVD before.
[07:41.020 --> 07:44.740]  And good luck finding any VHS copies of those conferences.
[07:44.740 --> 07:45.820]  I think they're long gone.
[07:46.540 --> 07:54.580]  So what we have, what we're doing tonight is playing excerpts from the social engineering panels that have taken place at each and every one of those conferences.
[07:54.960 --> 07:55.800]  So you've had...
[07:55.800 --> 07:59.540]  Every single one of those eight HOPEs has had a social engineering panel?
[07:59.560 --> 08:00.080]  Yeah, that's something.
[08:00.240 --> 08:01.400]  And you have copies of all of them?
[08:01.400 --> 08:03.840]  Yeah, and we're going to play an excerpt from the very first one.
[08:03.840 --> 08:11.280]  But listeners, this is what will intrigue you if you're fascinated, as we are, by the concept of the social engineering.
[08:11.380 --> 08:20.020]  We're offering all eight of these DVDs, eight social engineering panels, the most comprehensive view of social engineering I think you'll ever be able to find, for a pledge of $80.
[08:20.580 --> 08:21.120]  Eight zero.
[08:21.320 --> 08:25.800]  So call 212-209-2950 and pledge.
[08:25.940 --> 08:29.560]  It's only available this hour and it's never been offered before.
[08:29.920 --> 08:32.080]  And you won't be able to find it anywhere else.
[08:32.080 --> 08:34.500]  That's a simple fact.
[08:34.720 --> 08:36.320]  Is it fair to say it will never be offered again?
[08:37.160 --> 08:38.720]  Yeah, I think you could probably say that.
[08:38.820 --> 08:40.520]  Certainly not outside this fundraiser.
[08:40.640 --> 08:46.320]  So you have like 51 minutes left or so to call 212-209-2950.
[08:46.380 --> 08:47.720]  No, 2950, yes.
[08:47.940 --> 08:48.660]  2950, sorry.
[08:48.820 --> 08:50.260]  212-209-2950.
[08:50.740 --> 08:52.640]  Have to get in the habit of saying that again.
[08:52.840 --> 08:59.720]  And I would appreciate if people start calling now only because we're looking at this computer program here that we use to monitor the phone lines.
[08:59.720 --> 09:01.660]  And I like to see if it's working.
[09:02.100 --> 09:02.820]  See if calls are coming in.
[09:02.900 --> 09:04.220]  Don't just call in to make the phone ring.
[09:04.340 --> 09:05.380]  I mean, yeah, that would prove it's working.
[09:05.460 --> 09:07.700]  But it would also antagonize people down there.
[09:07.820 --> 09:09.740]  And they've had a hard day as it is.
[09:10.500 --> 09:10.600]  Emmanuel?
[09:10.780 --> 09:11.300]  Yes, Bernie.
[09:11.640 --> 09:20.440]  I just want to point out that you're not just getting eight really intellectually stimulating DVDs about social engineering.
[09:21.200 --> 09:23.220]  You're getting WBAI.
[09:23.220 --> 09:25.940]  Not just getting this radio show.
[09:26.220 --> 09:36.780]  You're getting all the radio shows that WBAI offers and helping to keep the station on the air because, as our listeners probably noticed, we don't air any commercials.
[09:36.880 --> 09:41.080]  We have no corporate sponsors, underwriters, none of that stuff.
[09:41.080 --> 09:48.480]  We're beholden to nobody, which is why we can say this stuff we can't, which would really piss off a lot of companies and powerful people.
[09:48.620 --> 09:49.180]  Yeah, absolutely.
[09:49.180 --> 09:59.480]  So that's the only way we can air this kind of stuff is by the listeners who pledge their support to WBAI by calling 212-209-2950.
[09:59.740 --> 10:04.260]  Again, we're offering all eight of these panel discussions.
[10:04.540 --> 10:06.280]  These are not boring talks here.
[10:06.400 --> 10:10.540]  These are active demonstrations where you'll hear...
[10:10.540 --> 10:12.400]  And things have changed over the years.
[10:12.720 --> 10:24.220]  You'll hear how people react, people in corporations or sometimes just individual people react when asked certain questions, confronted by a total stranger on the telephone, asking them to reveal things.
[10:24.400 --> 10:28.780]  And we're careful in that we don't let people reveal too much.
[10:28.900 --> 10:33.940]  In fact, this clip we're about to play now, a person is about to reveal way too much.
[10:34.220 --> 10:39.040]  And we stop them from really doing their careers in.
[10:39.260 --> 10:48.680]  But it just goes to show how we need to think before we give out information about ourselves, how this is an issue of privacy privacy in this age and in a previous age.
[10:49.000 --> 10:50.980]  And there's a lot that you can take away from this.
[10:51.080 --> 10:57.300]  But it's also very humorous and a real fun time for the entire crowd that was there.
[10:58.000 --> 10:59.600]  212-209-2950.
[10:59.740 --> 11:04.300]  Again, a pledge of $80 gets you all eight of the DVDs.
[11:04.320 --> 11:09.020]  I'm not really a mathematician, but I believe that works out to about $10 a DVD.
[11:09.960 --> 11:10.680]  Yeah, something like that.
[11:10.680 --> 11:11.120]  Something like that.
[11:11.200 --> 11:20.420]  And that's a good deal for something like this, especially considering it was never available before and likely will not be made available again, at least not in this form.
[11:20.480 --> 11:22.000]  Not for these prices, certainly.
[11:22.360 --> 11:24.260]  This clip we're about to hear, what year is it from?
[11:24.300 --> 11:26.200]  This is from the very first Hope Conference.
[11:26.740 --> 11:28.020]  And we were new at this.
[11:28.080 --> 11:29.320]  We had no idea what was going to happen.
[11:29.560 --> 11:30.740]  It was a single track.
[11:30.740 --> 11:32.160]  It lasted only two days.
[11:33.180 --> 11:35.720]  And this was the first ever solution engineering panel.
[11:35.860 --> 11:44.680]  And this panel was formed as a result, a direct result of the Dutch panel that I had seen at Hacking at the End of the Universe the year previous to that, 1993.
[11:45.820 --> 11:55.720]  So we tried that in the States and it worked great and it became a tradition and something that we repeated every hope afterwards.
[11:55.940 --> 12:01.960]  And always with different people on the panel, always with different experiments and always with a lot of fun.
[12:02.100 --> 12:02.880]  Let's take a listen.
[12:03.060 --> 12:07.120]  And again, I found number 212-209-2950, 1994.
[12:08.200 --> 12:10.900]  I mean, we've all done some social engineering.
[12:11.040 --> 12:17.360]  Anytime we meet up against some imbecile in the phone company that won't tell us something that we have the right to know, you have to kind of keep trying.
[12:17.940 --> 12:20.940]  You get somebody that won't tell you something, you just call back and try again.
[12:21.380 --> 12:28.360]  You get somebody that gives you one little bit of information, you call back and you use that one little bit of information to get more information from the next person.
[12:28.540 --> 12:33.360]  It's amazingly like computer hacking except the people at the other end aren't quite as intelligent as computers.
[12:35.740 --> 12:37.760]  Really, I could tell you 9x stories, but I won't.
[12:49.660 --> 13:00.140]  Well, okay, the most recent example, we got a new phone line installed and we asked them, please don't send the bill to the address that the phone goes to because mail delivery is not very reliable.
[13:00.280 --> 13:01.320]  Send it to this P.O.
[13:01.320 --> 13:03.240]  box in this town over here, please, okay?
[13:03.520 --> 13:03.940]  Thank you!
[13:04.260 --> 13:08.960]  Well, a month later, we got a bill that was sent to the wrong P.O.
[13:08.980 --> 13:09.260]  box.
[13:09.260 --> 13:10.940]  It was minus one of the P.O.
[13:10.940 --> 13:14.460]  box we sent them, but it was also the town that we were in originally.
[13:14.460 --> 13:15.940]  So they sent it to the wrong P.O.
[13:15.960 --> 13:17.120]  box in the wrong town.
[13:17.240 --> 13:19.960]  And somehow it got to us, a miracle of the post office.
[13:21.060 --> 13:24.280]  We told them not to ever do that again, but they did.
[13:24.420 --> 13:27.600]  They sent us a calling card that we didn't even ask for.
[13:28.240 --> 13:31.240]  And we got it in the mail to the right P.O.
[13:31.240 --> 13:33.140]  box because they had repackaged it.
[13:33.260 --> 13:34.480]  They had sent it to the wrong address.
[13:34.760 --> 13:35.660]  It had been opened.
[13:36.840 --> 13:41.100]  They got it back, and then they put it into a handwritten envelope, sent it to our P.O.
[13:41.160 --> 13:41.360]  box.
[13:41.440 --> 13:50.200]  Now they see that a calling card has been sent out unsolicited, has been opened by the wrong person, yet they just sent it out again as if nothing had happened.
[13:50.680 --> 13:54.920]  We've been since March trying to get new phone lines installed at 2600.
[13:55.240 --> 13:58.840]  And really, I don't know, does 9X do something else that takes all their time?
[13:59.000 --> 14:03.500]  Because they don't have time for phones.
[14:03.580 --> 14:04.900]  They don't have time to fix things.
[14:05.420 --> 14:06.880]  Go outside and look at the pay phones.
[14:07.040 --> 14:07.720]  They're in horrible shape.
[14:07.720 --> 14:08.600]  They don't get fixed.
[14:09.180 --> 14:10.460]  The same thing with residential.
[14:10.580 --> 14:18.380]  Anybody who runs a business, anybody that has ever tried to put up a site of slips and dial-ins, has to deal with 9X.
[14:18.520 --> 14:21.380]  I've heard stories from Panics, from Escape, from Linebox.
[14:21.540 --> 14:23.300]  It's awful what they do to people.
[14:23.600 --> 14:31.520]  A good example, a phone man came to my house once, and he was trying to find out what the line code was, what the phone number was.
[14:31.600 --> 14:34.380]  And he was dialing 958, which is our ANAC number here in New York.
[14:34.380 --> 14:36.040]  And it wasn't working for some reason.
[14:36.180 --> 14:36.860]  It was all busied out.
[14:37.180 --> 14:39.300]  He just kept dialing 958, and it was a rotary phone.
[14:39.400 --> 14:40.280]  It was taking a long time.
[14:40.820 --> 14:44.140]  And I said to him, you know, you can dial 511, too, and there's another one.
[14:44.940 --> 14:47.820]  And he just looked at me for a second, and he just kept dialing 958.
[14:49.160 --> 14:51.400]  It's like something just didn't quite mesh there.
[14:53.120 --> 15:01.060]  So what they do in the phone... there's a great book that came out maybe 20 years ago called The Biggest Company on Earth, and it was about the Dell system.
[15:01.060 --> 15:04.840]  And this was before the breakup, and it was all one big company.
[15:04.960 --> 15:05.880]  They owned your phone.
[15:06.020 --> 15:07.260]  They owned the wire in your phone.
[15:07.380 --> 15:09.800]  They owned the phone... the wire to the central office.
[15:10.000 --> 15:12.420]  They owned the central office, and they owned long-distance companies.
[15:12.840 --> 15:13.380]  It was scary.
[15:14.100 --> 15:16.920]  And it was one big enemy for all of us.
[15:17.260 --> 15:19.380]  Well, now there's lots of big enemies for all of us.
[15:20.420 --> 15:22.420]  But locally, we still only have one company.
[15:22.500 --> 15:23.480]  We still just have 9X.
[15:23.480 --> 15:33.660]  And one of the things I know lots of us want to do is get competition on the local scale, make things more interesting for us for one thing, but also give us some maybe cheaper prices.
[15:34.800 --> 15:36.780]  So that's something that we're pushing for.
[15:37.500 --> 15:40.680]  As far as social engineering goes though, there are...
[15:40.680 --> 15:48.080]  I cannot think of a single company that is immune from this, that has not done some utterly stupid things.
[15:49.740 --> 15:53.540]  I once called up a company, Cable and Wireless, and I asked them what my code was.
[15:54.240 --> 15:55.780]  All I said was my phone number.
[15:56.120 --> 15:57.720]  And they told me what my code was.
[15:57.780 --> 15:58.780]  No verification, nothing.
[16:00.200 --> 16:03.060]  Another time... How many of you have MCI friends and family?
[16:04.360 --> 16:05.540]  That was a great one.
[16:05.580 --> 16:06.320]  You know what I'm talking about.
[16:07.040 --> 16:14.980]  They have an 800 number where all you have to do is call the 800 number, enter your phone number, and then as security, enter your zip code.
[16:18.810 --> 16:24.190]  And they'll tell you all ten people on your calling circle, which includes people with unlisted phone numbers.
[16:24.350 --> 16:26.750]  And not only that, but you find out how they related to you.
[16:26.910 --> 16:29.130]  Your brother at 914 or whatever.
[16:30.110 --> 16:31.950]  You know, whatever.
[16:32.230 --> 16:34.710]  They just put all this information in.
[16:34.830 --> 16:37.510]  Well, they changed that because we broadcast that over the radio here.
[16:38.490 --> 16:38.930]  Live.
[16:39.690 --> 16:46.350]  And now you have to get, I think, part of your account number, which is not very hard to get either.
[16:47.430 --> 16:50.510]  So it's always possible to get information from these companies.
[16:50.990 --> 16:53.250]  Social engineering, though, extends well beyond phone companies.
[16:53.450 --> 16:58.830]  One story I told last year at HGU was about trying to get a computer dial-up number.
[16:58.830 --> 17:01.470]  Now, we were at a university, this was a few years ago.
[17:01.770 --> 17:04.810]  And all we wanted to know was the dial-up for the mainframe.
[17:05.870 --> 17:07.270]  And they wouldn't tell us.
[17:07.330 --> 17:10.670]  That was privileged information for only the computer elitists.
[17:11.610 --> 17:16.490]  So we called up the computer center and we asked them...
[17:16.490 --> 17:19.830]  We did some social engineering trick which did not work at all.
[17:20.110 --> 17:22.030]  And they said, look, we're not telling you this.
[17:22.130 --> 17:23.490]  This is not information for you to know.
[17:23.630 --> 17:25.070]  We will never tell you this, blah, blah, blah.
[17:25.170 --> 17:26.030]  And they hung up.
[17:26.030 --> 17:29.010]  And we were very depressed, very upset that we couldn't get this information.
[17:29.750 --> 17:34.370]  Until one of us thought to, after a few minutes, to call them again.
[17:35.050 --> 17:37.690]  And say, yeah, this is so-and-so.
[17:37.790 --> 17:39.070]  Actually, after about half an hour.
[17:39.470 --> 17:42.210]  This is so-and-so from some office in administration.
[17:42.330 --> 17:44.150]  We heard what just happened.
[17:44.350 --> 17:45.290]  Do you want to tell us about it?
[17:45.430 --> 17:49.310]  Well, sure enough, they had called in and said that somebody was trying to get this phone number.
[17:49.430 --> 17:52.870]  And they gave the details as to what this person had been trying to do.
[17:52.870 --> 17:57.030]  Some stranger called us up and was trying to get privileged information out of us.
[17:57.730 --> 18:01.230]  And, well, sir, what privileged information were they trying to get?
[18:04.870 --> 18:06.210]  Or a computer number.
[18:06.330 --> 18:07.570]  What number would that be, sir?
[18:08.590 --> 18:09.270]  Thank you.
[18:34.370 --> 18:36.070]  Thank you for calling Sprint.
[18:37.030 --> 18:39.790]  One moment, please, while we connect you to a representative.
[18:42.810 --> 18:45.070]  Sprint customer service, Deborah Brown speaking.
[18:45.390 --> 18:46.190]  And how may I help you?
[18:46.250 --> 18:47.230]  Hey, Deborah, how's it going?
[18:47.370 --> 18:48.010]  It's fine.
[18:48.350 --> 18:50.330]  Hey, this is Bob Dwyer over at Sprint Social Engineering.
[18:50.390 --> 18:50.770]  How you doing?
[18:50.910 --> 18:51.390]  I'm fine.
[18:52.030 --> 18:52.750]  Pretty good.
[18:52.870 --> 18:53.690]  It's one of those days.
[18:53.690 --> 18:54.430]  Oh, okay.
[18:55.230 --> 18:58.530]  You wouldn't have to have the number for the CNA that handles 313 there, would you?
[18:58.570 --> 18:59.050]  That's Michigan.
[18:59.470 --> 19:00.550]  I think so.
[19:00.690 --> 19:01.430]  Just a moment.
[19:06.590 --> 19:07.770]  Are you guys busy over there today?
[19:08.410 --> 19:10.370]  We were real busy earlier.
[19:10.670 --> 19:11.930]  Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
[19:12.050 --> 19:16.890]  Okay, it's 313-424-0900.
[19:17.310 --> 19:17.610]  Okay.
[19:18.110 --> 19:19.030]  Let me give you the pen.
[19:20.090 --> 19:20.610]  That's okay.
[19:20.650 --> 19:21.310]  I think we have that.
[19:21.430 --> 19:21.910]  Oh, you have that?
[19:21.990 --> 19:22.850]  Yeah, we don't need it.
[19:23.110 --> 19:23.390]  Okay.
[19:23.390 --> 19:24.910]  Is it one of those five-digit ones?
[19:26.210 --> 19:27.270]  Yes, sure it is.
[19:27.450 --> 19:27.610]  All right.
[19:27.670 --> 19:28.990]  Hey, is CIS up for you guys over there?
[19:29.150 --> 19:29.470]  Yes.
[19:29.790 --> 19:35.150]  Yeah, because we've even had a lot of problems with data loss from CIS to the switch and it's not processing the TCs too well.
[19:35.410 --> 19:35.750]  Uh-huh.
[19:35.970 --> 19:39.270]  What do you show us the last account that you handled or processed?
[19:39.930 --> 19:40.790]  The last account?
[19:40.990 --> 19:41.170]  Yeah.
[19:44.150 --> 19:44.490]  Uh...
[19:45.090 --> 19:45.430]  180.
[19:45.630 --> 19:46.030]  Oh, wait.
[19:46.250 --> 19:46.730]  Oh, no, wait.
[19:46.890 --> 19:47.550]  Oh, we have it right here.
[19:48.370 --> 19:50.710]  Yeah, in fact, the CIS just came back online for us.
[19:50.870 --> 19:51.190]  I did it?
[19:51.190 --> 19:51.670]  Yeah.
[19:51.890 --> 19:52.550]  Oh, all right.
[19:52.610 --> 19:53.430]  Hey, thanks a lot for your help.
[19:53.510 --> 19:54.230]  You have a good one.
[19:54.350 --> 19:54.930]  All right, bye-bye.
[19:55.090 --> 19:55.250]  Bye-bye.
[20:14.840 --> 20:19.200]  Okay, and that was an excerpt from the first help conference in 1994.
[20:20.600 --> 20:22.220]  That was a hacker known as S.N.
[20:22.260 --> 20:25.140]  who was a master at social engineering.
[20:25.720 --> 20:28.900]  And he called Sprint and got them to...
[20:28.900 --> 20:34.840]  At one point, they were going to give out a PIN for access to a particular number known as a CNA customer name and address.
[20:34.840 --> 20:40.980]  Back then, back then in 1994, it was a big deal to get a hold of a number that would actually reverse a telephone number.
[20:41.100 --> 20:47.680]  You'd give them a telephone number, they'd tell you who it belonged to and the address, even if it was unlisted in many instances.
[20:48.300 --> 20:57.840]  And, as you can see, she was about to give out even more specific information about the last account that she had had access to, and he responsibly stopped her from doing that.
[20:57.840 --> 21:02.800]  But it demonstrated quite well how once you win somebody's trust, you say, wow, it's one of those days.
[21:02.860 --> 21:04.300]  You get the terminology right.
[21:04.540 --> 21:08.340]  Of course, he did say it was from Sprint Social Engineering, which I thought was genius.
[21:09.360 --> 21:14.780]  But once you get somebody's trust, it's a very simple matter to get them to simply start giving information out.
[21:14.860 --> 21:16.840]  And there's no better demonstration than this.
[21:16.840 --> 21:22.100]  So what we're offering here today, we're offering eight of these seminars, eight of these amazing things.
[21:22.200 --> 21:30.740]  And people from big corporations fly cross-country just to see that panel whenever we have one at Hope Conference.
[21:30.860 --> 21:36.620]  We're offering you all eight of them that we have ever put on from 1994 through last year, 2010.
[21:37.620 --> 21:53.820]  212-209-2950 for a pledge of $80, you'll get eight DVDs, each one with a different social engineering panel, where we talk about various stories, but most importantly, we demonstrate live right there in front of a huge crowd how easy it is to get information out of people.
[21:53.820 --> 21:58.880]  I don't think we've had a single social engineering panel where something amazing didn't happen.
[21:59.020 --> 22:00.100]  Am I right on that, Bernie?
[22:00.900 --> 22:01.340]  Yes.
[22:01.820 --> 22:03.260]  You never know what to expect.
[22:03.280 --> 22:10.740]  But when you watch all eight of these, you will see some common themes which apply from year to year to year.
[22:11.180 --> 22:12.740]  But it's not the same stuff.
[22:12.740 --> 22:18.540]  It's just you just begin to pick up principles that you can apply in your own life in all kinds of ways.
[22:18.720 --> 22:19.180]  That's right.
[22:19.260 --> 22:23.320]  Now, we've gotten a couple of calls already, but I want to see five calls come in right now.
[22:23.440 --> 22:25.140]  212-209-2950.
[22:25.540 --> 22:27.640]  And if we see that, we're going to go into the next clip.
[22:27.800 --> 22:32.720]  And also, if we see that, and I make this pledge right now, we'll do some live social engineering here on the radio station.
[22:32.720 --> 22:45.180]  But we need those calls to come in because what it's all about is keeping the radio station going so that we're able to bring you programming like this, bring you experimentation like this, and spreading of information of all sorts.
[22:45.180 --> 22:47.320]  It's 212-209-2950.
[22:47.320 --> 22:54.180]  $80 gets you eight DVDs, each one with a different social engineering panel from a different HOPE conference, never before offered.
[22:54.440 --> 22:58.120]  And it's really a pretty incredible deal, I think.
[22:58.120 --> 23:05.500]  You know, we take it for granted here on WBAI that we can play clips like this, where we can call up big companies and show how stupid they are, basically.
[23:06.840 --> 23:10.840]  But on a lot of... you know, can you imagine if Sprint were a sponsor of WBAI?
[23:10.940 --> 23:12.500]  Yeah, they take a dim view of that, I think.
[23:12.620 --> 23:16.440]  They wouldn't like... we'd be getting phone calls, and they'd be threatening to pull their spots.
[23:16.620 --> 23:19.980]  Yeah, and I'd be raked over the coals for even daring to do something like this.
[23:20.540 --> 23:28.340]  I mean, it's just amazing to me that we don't even have to think about such issues here at WBAI because our listeners are our supporters, are our sponsors.
[23:29.220 --> 23:33.920]  212-209-2950, join their ranks, and make it so that we never have to take Sprint's money.
[23:33.960 --> 23:34.920]  One call on the line.
[23:35.080 --> 23:41.960]  We get four more, we can move into the next one, and I'll start preparing my live social engineering trick on the air.
[23:42.320 --> 23:44.720]  212-209-2950.
[23:44.720 --> 23:51.160]  And there's also something else we're offering, too, for those people that, if for some reason, this doesn't strike your fancy.
[23:51.220 --> 23:53.500]  I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't.
[23:53.600 --> 24:01.680]  We also have autographed copies of the Dear Hacker book, which is basically a 600-page compendium of letters to the editor of 2600.
[24:01.860 --> 24:06.540]  Autographed Dear Hacker for 55, 212-209-2950.
[24:07.620 --> 24:23.920]  Please give us a call now and show your support for the radio station because this is the kind of place where this sort of thing flourishes, where there's all kinds of different programming, alternative programming, and it's a good combination, a good blend.
[24:23.920 --> 24:32.160]  We have hackers, we have gatherings of people from all around the world every couple of years, and WBAI is key to all of that.
[24:32.160 --> 24:39.150]  Now, Bernie, you've been around for all eight of these conferences, and I think you've been a part of each of the social engineering seminars.
[24:39.960 --> 24:41.320]  Have you noticed a change over the years?
[24:43.820 --> 24:49.720]  Well, some of the topics, some of the material that we seek has changed over the years.
[24:49.900 --> 24:53.360]  But the general principles remain the same.
[24:53.360 --> 24:57.880]  And we've had some masters of social engineering on these panels, as you mentioned, SN.
[24:58.280 --> 25:00.760]  We've had Kevin Mitnick on some of these, yourself.
[25:01.700 --> 25:03.620]  We've had some really interesting guests.
[25:04.340 --> 25:05.740]  We have two calls on the line.
[25:05.820 --> 25:08.220]  Bernie, I expect you to bring in the other three because I know you can do it.
[25:08.220 --> 25:08.560]  Okay.
[25:09.320 --> 25:14.960]  This is... well, there are people who come to the HOPE conferences just to see this conference.
[25:15.100 --> 25:17.800]  As you pointed out, the corporations send people from around the country.
[25:18.220 --> 25:27.600]  And also, companies cower in fear just before we do this particular panel discussion at the HOPE conference.
[25:27.660 --> 25:32.200]  I remember one year, AT&T circulated a letter throughout their whole corporation.
[25:32.440 --> 25:34.000]  We're going to get into that one, Bernie.
[25:34.100 --> 25:36.140]  That's one of our highlights tonight.
[25:36.140 --> 25:44.960]  In fact, I got to say, there are so many... so much material here that we can only touch upon three conferences this hour.
[25:44.980 --> 25:49.320]  Because we have eight conferences total, and we can only scratch the surface of each of those conferences.
[25:49.760 --> 25:52.640]  So much material, so much entertainment, so much to learn from.
[25:53.240 --> 25:57.180]  And also, it's kind of cool to see how we've changed over the years as well.
[25:57.180 --> 25:59.940]  Because 1994 was almost 20 years ago.
[26:00.120 --> 26:03.660]  And you'll see how a lot of people didn't have cell phones back then.
[26:04.040 --> 26:05.780]  The phone network sounded different.
[26:06.080 --> 26:07.440]  There were different companies in existence.
[26:07.780 --> 26:10.540]  Maybe people acted a little bit differently on the telephone.
[26:10.760 --> 26:12.100]  Remember, it was a pre-911 world.
[26:12.300 --> 26:12.840]  Who knows?
[26:13.360 --> 26:14.940]  You'll notice all kinds of things.
[26:15.120 --> 26:16.680]  It'll be vastly entertaining.
[26:17.100 --> 26:19.300]  212-209-2950.
[26:19.300 --> 26:24.680]  If they were joining those two calls on the line, I'm assuming this computer program works and that we're seeing accurate representation.
[26:25.120 --> 26:31.140]  We need to bring in significantly more calls than this though, if we're going to have a successful night tonight.
[26:31.360 --> 26:32.780]  And this is really a great deal.
[26:33.240 --> 26:37.800]  Eight DVDs, eight different conferences, eight social engineering panels.
[26:39.040 --> 26:40.440]  It's really some good stuff.
[26:41.300 --> 26:42.500]  How long is each panel?
[26:42.800 --> 26:44.560]  Each panel is at least an hour.
[26:45.000 --> 26:46.600]  Some of them go a little bit longer than that.
[26:47.020 --> 26:48.360]  Some are like two hours, aren't they?
[26:48.760 --> 26:50.180]  I don't know if social engineering went too.
[26:50.240 --> 26:51.740]  I think one of them is 90 minutes.
[26:52.020 --> 26:53.060]  I'm not exactly sure.
[26:53.160 --> 26:53.860]  Three calls on the line.
[26:53.960 --> 26:55.600]  212-209-2950.
[26:57.040 --> 26:58.200]  They'll go fast.
[26:58.200 --> 26:58.720]  I'll say that.
[26:58.800 --> 27:03.300]  When you're watching them, everything stands still because they're that entertaining.
[27:03.520 --> 27:07.300]  And I know they go fast when you're on the panel, when you're actually there making phone calls.
[27:07.300 --> 27:08.880]  And we don't stage these.
[27:09.000 --> 27:10.180]  We don't stage these in advance.
[27:10.520 --> 27:11.620]  We basically...
[27:12.340 --> 27:13.900]  Sometimes we come up there with a phone book.
[27:14.000 --> 27:18.020]  We throw the phone book up in the air and point to a random number or a random company.
[27:19.050 --> 27:20.560]  And then we try something.
[27:20.940 --> 27:25.800]  There have been times where I've had no idea what I'm going to try until I get up there on stage.
[27:26.330 --> 27:29.980]  And almost every time, like I said, we come up with something kind of interesting.
[27:30.100 --> 27:31.000]  We learn something interesting.
[27:31.180 --> 27:33.080]  212-209-2950.
[27:33.080 --> 27:34.160]  Another couple of calls.
[27:34.360 --> 27:36.320]  And we'll be able to go to the next clip.
[27:36.320 --> 27:40.360]  And that clip will be from 1997, the Beyond Hope Conference.
[27:40.360 --> 27:44.160]  And that's something also that very few people have seen since then.
[27:44.680 --> 27:44.960]  Emmanuel?
[27:45.100 --> 27:45.620]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[27:45.860 --> 28:08.520]  I wanted to say that I challenge any listener to pledge support for WBAI, at least $80, to get this amazing package of social engineering panel DVDs, and to watch them and not feel more confident in getting all kinds of information that you never thought you'd be able to get before.
[28:08.520 --> 28:26.480]  Just watching these eight panel discussions, over eight hours of really stimulating programming, you will have renewed confidence in being able to get all kinds of information from companies and other people that you never would have known how to ask for.
[28:26.480 --> 28:32.460]  And people will hand you the keys to the kingdom, if you just ask for it the right way, as you pointed out.
[28:32.460 --> 28:35.980]  Listeners, call 212-209-2950.
[28:35.980 --> 28:39.620]  One more call is all it's going to take, 212-209-2950.
[28:39.940 --> 28:45.340]  And yet, you know, there are lots of legitimate reasons for you to have these skills as well.
[28:45.620 --> 28:58.100]  Many times, you can't get information that you're entitled to because of some ridiculous corporate policy or some clod that's standing in the way thinking that they have power over you.
[28:58.100 --> 28:58.880]  But there are ways.
[28:59.000 --> 29:03.660]  There are ways of getting them to relent, getting them to open up the door.
[29:03.840 --> 29:07.360]  And most of the time, it's information that you have every right to, information about yourself.
[29:08.600 --> 29:13.360]  I can tell stories about ways I've been stymied as far as actually getting legitimate access.
[29:13.380 --> 29:16.220]  But we only have an hour and we have more clips we have to get to.
[29:16.260 --> 29:17.260]  We've gotten the calls we need.
[29:17.500 --> 29:19.780]  Please continue to call while we play this next clip.
[29:21.020 --> 29:22.100]  212-209-2950.
[29:22.940 --> 29:26.660]  Remember, I'll be doing a live solutions during demonstration in just a moment and I have to prepare that.
[29:26.660 --> 29:29.100]  212-209-2950.
[29:29.100 --> 29:34.580]  Please pledge, get these eight DVDs, eight different conferences, eight different social engineering panels.
[29:34.800 --> 29:35.940]  Let's go to 1997.
[29:38.160 --> 29:42.340]  Well, the thing with social engineering is it involves people.
[29:42.700 --> 29:46.220]  And we just love people because they're just so much fun to work with.
[29:46.400 --> 29:54.260]  As long as people have control over computers, there's nothing we can't find out that's in them.
[29:54.260 --> 29:56.160]  It doesn't matter how many passwords you have.
[29:56.280 --> 29:57.880]  It doesn't matter how many firewalls you're behind.
[29:58.080 --> 30:06.360]  If you have one stupid imbecile that's going to give you a password over the telephone and the numbers you need to get into it, then you're in.
[30:06.560 --> 30:09.620]  It doesn't matter how safe the actual hardware or software is.
[30:09.620 --> 30:12.060]  It's the human beings that are always the weak point.
[30:12.500 --> 30:14.800]  You know, you want someone's unlisted phone number?
[30:14.800 --> 30:15.520]  It's simple.
[30:15.660 --> 30:16.140]  It's easy.
[30:16.860 --> 30:19.180]  I've, you know, seen this happen many times.
[30:19.180 --> 30:20.540]  I've done it a few times myself.
[30:20.540 --> 30:26.720]  I mean, you have like somebody in an apartment building that you know lives in that building.
[30:26.920 --> 30:27.980]  You call their doorman.
[30:28.220 --> 30:35.480]  You know, you say, hey, I got this ring-tailed monkey here that I had to deliver to this guy upstairs and it's eating a lot of bananas and I'm running out here.
[30:35.640 --> 30:37.140]  I need the guy's phone number.
[30:37.320 --> 30:38.440]  You know, I need his room number.
[30:38.680 --> 30:39.560]  Help me out here.
[30:39.780 --> 30:40.620]  They'll help you out.
[30:40.720 --> 30:41.000]  They do.
[30:41.120 --> 30:42.620]  That's what people are for.
[30:43.960 --> 30:45.380]  So, don't forget that.
[30:45.500 --> 30:50.760]  You know, you're told that you can't get certain bits of information.
[30:50.760 --> 30:52.440]  Oh, that's an unlisted phone number.
[30:52.600 --> 30:53.580]  That's restricted.
[30:53.900 --> 30:59.940]  You can get whatever you want if you use your brains, your imagination and figure out a way to get them to tell you anyway.
[31:00.340 --> 31:06.860]  If anybody wants to do a particular type of thing, get a particular bit of information from anybody anywhere, we can give it a shot.
[31:07.200 --> 31:08.800]  You know, there's nothing wrong with trying.
[31:09.320 --> 31:13.220]  And if you have any ideas, just step up to the microphone and come forward.
[31:13.400 --> 31:14.040]  Not you, Revel.
[31:14.140 --> 31:14.460]  Sit down.
[31:18.260 --> 31:23.300]  Another important thing about social engineering, voicemail is God's gift to social engineering.
[31:23.660 --> 31:25.940]  Let's say, for example, you're working with a piece of equipment.
[31:26.080 --> 31:29.400]  As you know, most companies right now in the last couple of years are charging for tech support.
[31:30.360 --> 31:34.360]  Once you get to the technicians, you can get white papers, they'll fax you stuff.
[31:34.740 --> 31:36.000]  You can get so much stuff from them.
[31:36.020 --> 31:37.540]  All you got to do is, this is the simple trick.
[31:37.540 --> 31:38.300]  You can call them up.
[31:38.420 --> 31:41.840]  If you get to the opera, first, go to the voicemail, go to the director, get somebody's name.
[31:42.560 --> 31:44.180]  Once you get their names, go to the operator.
[31:44.400 --> 31:46.720]  Just say, hi, this is John from sales.
[31:46.880 --> 31:48.360]  I need to speak to Bob in tech.
[31:48.520 --> 31:49.540]  She'll transfer you down there.
[31:49.860 --> 31:55.740]  Once you get down there and you talk to those guys, if you know what you're talking about, they'll help you out beyond a shadow of a doubt.
[31:55.740 --> 32:00.920]  And if they're acting a little weary and not going to show if they'll help you, pretend like you're in the middle of a jam.
[32:01.680 --> 32:04.720]  You're doing something for a client and you're in the middle of a jam and you need this right now.
[32:05.240 --> 32:06.720]  That's their job to help you.
[32:06.820 --> 32:08.320]  They don't care who you are.
[32:08.500 --> 32:09.220]  That's sales.
[32:09.380 --> 32:11.100]  That's the operator's point of view.
[32:11.220 --> 32:12.180]  They'll transfer you down there.
[32:12.260 --> 32:13.340]  You can get the white papers.
[32:13.840 --> 32:15.080]  You can get the tech support.
[32:15.760 --> 32:17.580]  You can get some free tech support.
[32:17.740 --> 32:19.780]  You can get a lot of free stuff from the company.
[32:19.780 --> 32:33.940]  So, we'll just access the voicemail directory, and most of the time you can get everyone in the company's name, or as you sit down there, look at a lot of the webpages now, they'll have the directory right on the webpage now, because they want to list as much as they can on,
[32:33.940 --> 32:35.040]  you know, the internet.
[32:35.400 --> 32:38.040]  So, that's the best way.
[32:38.140 --> 32:39.400]  So, you can get a lot of free tech support.
[32:40.500 --> 32:49.680]  Once you get into those big companies, and you start talking to tech eventually after a while, he'll start to know you, and he'll just get used to you, and you won't get transferred.
[32:49.680 --> 32:52.260]  Right down there, you'll keep going, and going, and going.
[32:52.420 --> 32:53.840]  Just work with the voicemail.
[32:54.040 --> 32:54.860]  It's a gift.
[32:55.500 --> 32:57.120]  I think Office Max is closed now, though.
[32:57.280 --> 32:58.120]  It's Sunday, right?
[32:59.380 --> 33:01.560]  Sunday... 6 o'clock?
[33:01.720 --> 33:02.320]  What time is it now?
[33:02.920 --> 33:03.820]  5 o'clock.
[33:04.020 --> 33:05.040]  Oh boy, we better hurry then.
[33:05.840 --> 33:07.160]  Does anybody want to tackle this one?
[33:07.400 --> 33:07.720]  Joker?
[33:07.880 --> 33:08.380]  You want to try this?
[33:10.040 --> 33:10.400]  Joker!
[33:10.400 --> 33:10.760]  Joker!
[33:11.280 --> 33:11.280]  Joker!
[33:11.280 --> 33:11.460]  Woo!
[33:15.400 --> 33:17.000]  Turn on some of that schmooze.
[33:17.940 --> 33:21.540]  If anyone's got any intercom numbers, too, for Kmart or something like that.
[33:29.490 --> 33:30.230]  What did you say?
[33:30.630 --> 33:33.010]  Transfer to the electronics department, and then go from there?
[33:34.890 --> 33:35.210]  Cool.
[33:35.510 --> 33:35.630]  All right.
[33:52.270 --> 33:53.010]  Thank you for calling.
[33:53.150 --> 33:53.510]  Office Max.
[33:53.630 --> 33:54.090]  Andrea speaking.
[33:54.210 --> 33:54.650]  Can I help you?
[33:54.870 --> 33:57.210]  Yes, could you transfer me to the electronics department, please?
[33:57.410 --> 33:57.570]  Sure, hold on.
[33:57.670 --> 33:58.010]  Thank you.
[34:09.790 --> 34:10.830]  Electronics, how can I help you?
[34:11.170 --> 34:13.470]  Yes, I bought a laptop from there the other day.
[34:13.630 --> 34:18.490]  It was a floor model, and I booted it up.
[34:18.490 --> 34:22.110]  It comes up in... what is it?
[34:22.570 --> 34:26.490]  Windows 95, and asked me for a password.
[34:28.110 --> 34:31.330]  I don't really find... I'm not finding any information about this.
[34:31.450 --> 34:32.170]  I need to disable it for you, huh?
[34:32.490 --> 34:32.890]  No.
[34:33.150 --> 34:36.450]  Is there like one that you use, or...?
[34:36.450 --> 34:41.950]  Yeah, put in NOV... 2796.
[34:43.570 --> 34:44.210]  Okay, 2796.
[34:44.470 --> 34:44.470]  Yeah.
[34:44.690 --> 34:49.650]  Now, once you get in, you go into start, you go into control...
[34:49.650 --> 34:51.930]  Right, start, wait, wait, where's the start?
[34:52.050 --> 34:53.870]  Oh, you mean the button in the lower...
[34:53.870 --> 34:55.450]  I want you to take it off, because you're going to have to put that...
[34:55.450 --> 34:58.450]  No, no, no, no, the start, you mean the button in the lower corner?
[34:59.170 --> 34:59.330]  Yeah.
[34:59.510 --> 34:59.950]  Upstream, okay.
[35:00.730 --> 35:02.330]  All right, and then go, okay.
[35:03.670 --> 35:05.270]  All right, yeah, go, I got it, yeah.
[35:05.810 --> 35:06.810]  Go to control panel.
[35:07.530 --> 35:08.250]  Control panel.
[35:08.690 --> 35:08.810]  Okay.
[35:09.150 --> 35:09.810]  Go to display.
[35:13.970 --> 35:14.290]  Okay.
[35:14.770 --> 35:18.070]  Okay, once you're in display, there should be something about password.
[35:18.930 --> 35:19.290]  Password?
[35:19.430 --> 35:19.550]  Yeah.
[35:20.110 --> 35:22.550]  Look for that, and just take the X out.
[35:23.890 --> 35:24.250]  Just...
[35:24.250 --> 35:27.550]  Yeah, unless you want to change it and put the password in for yourself.
[35:27.670 --> 35:28.470]  You don't need that, Tom.
[35:28.810 --> 35:29.490]  I wouldn't do that.
[35:29.610 --> 35:30.670]  Okay, all right.
[35:30.770 --> 35:33.470]  We do that so kids can't get into it and mess it up.
[35:33.650 --> 35:35.150]  Oh, you mean like when they're sitting in the store?
[35:35.290 --> 35:35.470]  Yeah.
[35:35.670 --> 35:37.650]  Like what, do they got, like, hackers or whatever?
[35:37.810 --> 35:38.010]  Yeah.
[35:38.730 --> 35:41.770]  God, man, this guy's making it worse for all of us.
[35:43.610 --> 35:46.550]  Yeah, okay, so there shouldn't be any other problems or anything?
[35:46.750 --> 35:47.470]  No, there shouldn't be.
[35:47.470 --> 35:48.970]  Right, okay, all right.
[35:49.250 --> 35:50.370]  I'm sorry, what's your name again?
[35:50.550 --> 35:50.890]  Anthony.
[35:51.090 --> 35:52.070]  Anthony, thank you very much.
[35:52.190 --> 35:52.390]  You're welcome.
[35:52.450 --> 35:52.990]  Okay, bye-bye.
[36:10.400 --> 36:11.200]  Next question.
[36:15.920 --> 36:18.000]  Does that mean we own OfficeMax?
[36:21.630 --> 36:23.010]  We're going to take a little trip tomorrow.
[36:24.850 --> 36:28.450]  All right, 1997 there, the Beyond Hope Conference.
[36:28.450 --> 36:31.050]  That was an excerpt from the social engineering panel there.
[36:31.050 --> 36:44.290]  I think that actually was the same panel where we eventually did get the Intercom extension for Kmart and somebody called up and was transferred to that extension and announced that everything in aisle three was free or something like that just to see what happened.
[36:44.290 --> 36:46.090]  And it was a bit of a bit of pandemonium.
[36:46.250 --> 36:48.350]  But that was all in good fun.
[36:48.890 --> 36:55.530]  We're offering that as only one of the eight DVDs, all featuring social engineering throughout the years.
[36:56.170 --> 37:14.130]  If you call 212-209-2950 before 8 o'clock tonight, Eastern Time, and pledge $80, you will get eight DVDs, one from every single Hope Conference that we've had here in New York City, where we try these experiments to see what people will give out, what people won't give out.
[37:14.130 --> 37:14.950]  Sometimes it doesn't work.
[37:15.030 --> 37:17.250]  Sometimes we get people who actually know something about security.
[37:17.430 --> 37:25.230]  But more often than not, people are very willing or representatives of corporations are very willing to give out a little bit too much information.
[37:25.990 --> 37:27.810]  It's kind of frightening, kind of educational.
[37:28.410 --> 37:31.230]  We have open phone lines now, 212-209-2950.
[37:31.830 --> 37:36.150]  Be one of the people to call in and get this amazing package that's only being offered right now.
[37:36.930 --> 37:38.930]  212-209-2950.
[37:39.710 --> 37:49.330]  We have eight different panels, all having to do with social engineering throughout the years, where we try to get information out of various people, information that really should not be given out.
[37:49.330 --> 37:53.390]  Sometimes, sometimes it's information about people like you.
[37:53.690 --> 37:58.230]  We can call, say, a blockbuster video and say, hey, my name is Mr. Smith.
[37:58.370 --> 37:59.510]  What video did I rent last?
[37:59.630 --> 38:03.530]  Oh, Mr. Smith of 1224 Pleasantville Street.
[38:04.170 --> 38:11.910]  Yes, you were looking at Halloween 4 the other day and some other slasher films, et cetera, et cetera.
[38:12.330 --> 38:13.530]  Would you like to change your address?
[38:13.630 --> 38:15.230]  Would you like me to read your credit card number to you?
[38:15.230 --> 38:19.470]  All kinds of things that they simply should not be telling anybody who calls in.
[38:19.670 --> 38:23.530]  We're doing it for fun, but there are people who do this for more nefarious reasons.
[38:23.670 --> 38:30.090]  And it's important to demonstrate for everybody out there just how easy it is to get information.
[38:30.330 --> 38:32.550]  212-209-2950.
[38:33.270 --> 38:35.710]  Emmanuel, I was promised a live demonstration of this.
[38:35.950 --> 38:36.850]  Okay, all right.
[38:36.870 --> 38:42.330]  I'm going to get a dial tone here and let's see if we can actually do this to some hapless soul out there.
[38:42.330 --> 38:43.530]  I got a dial tone.
[38:43.970 --> 38:46.130]  All right, let's dial a number.
[38:47.630 --> 38:49.150]  Keep in mind, I have...
[38:50.090 --> 38:52.050]  I don't even know the person's name I'm calling.
[38:54.590 --> 38:56.510]  Sometimes you don't even think about these things in advance.
[38:59.650 --> 39:00.850]  I'm kind of nervous, actually.
[39:07.830 --> 39:08.190]  Hello?
[39:08.190 --> 39:08.290]  Hello?
[39:09.050 --> 39:09.910]  Yes, hello.
[39:10.130 --> 39:12.570]  I'm calling from Washington Mutual Bank.
[39:13.330 --> 39:17.510]  And we noticed we might have a problem with your credit card number.
[39:20.770 --> 39:21.330]  Hello?
[39:21.690 --> 39:22.650]  Who am I speaking with?
[39:23.430 --> 39:23.670]  Yes.
[39:24.110 --> 39:24.310]  Yes.
[39:24.730 --> 39:25.830]  Mr. Dillon?
[39:26.350 --> 39:26.910]  Dillon?
[39:27.710 --> 39:28.610]  Hi, Dillon.
[39:28.610 --> 39:33.070]  Dillon, I think we might be having trouble with your credit card from Washington Mutuals.
[39:33.150 --> 39:33.970]  I'm establishing trust.
[39:34.090 --> 39:34.550]  I have a mute button.
[39:34.730 --> 39:36.030]  I'm establishing trust here.
[39:36.230 --> 39:39.050]  And Dillon is hopefully seeing me as a voice of authority.
[39:40.010 --> 39:43.610]  Dillon, do you have your credit card handy?
[39:45.230 --> 39:46.130]  Hang on a minute.
[39:46.390 --> 39:46.650]  Okay.
[39:46.910 --> 39:48.630]  Now, he's going to get the credit card.
[39:49.030 --> 39:53.110]  And I've already established myself as somebody who's trustworthy.
[39:53.870 --> 39:54.390]  Hopefully.
[39:54.650 --> 39:55.330]  Who is this?
[39:55.950 --> 39:59.270]  This is Mr. Jenkins over at Washington Mutual Bank.
[39:59.470 --> 40:05.450]  And your account was flagged because there was a charge from Indonesia on your credit card.
[40:05.610 --> 40:16.230]  So what I need you to do, if you have your credit card, if you could simply read me the numbers, the three numbers on the reverse side, the three security numbers.
[40:16.630 --> 40:17.450]  Do you have those?
[40:17.790 --> 40:19.410]  The credit card account?
[40:19.650 --> 40:20.070]  Yeah.
[40:20.230 --> 40:21.750]  I don't need the whole credit card number.
[40:21.890 --> 40:23.210]  I just need the three numbers on the back.
[40:23.210 --> 40:27.630]  That way we can verify that we're actually talking to an authorized person.
[40:27.930 --> 40:29.410]  But not debit.
[40:29.750 --> 40:29.930]  Credit.
[40:30.410 --> 40:30.850]  Credit.
[40:31.010 --> 40:31.070]  Yeah.
[40:31.150 --> 40:32.270]  The credit card this time.
[40:33.450 --> 40:33.690]  Okay.
[40:33.750 --> 40:34.050]  Hang on.
[40:34.250 --> 40:34.510]  Okay.
[40:35.410 --> 40:38.270]  See, now I'm putting fear into him that maybe he's not authorized.
[40:38.270 --> 40:40.530]  So he has to prove to me that he's the authorized person.
[40:41.130 --> 40:41.710]  All right.
[40:41.890 --> 40:44.070]  Now he's going to check that number.
[40:44.750 --> 40:45.110]  Hello?
[40:45.430 --> 40:45.970]  Yes, Dillon.
[40:46.070 --> 40:47.110]  Do you have that number?
[40:47.250 --> 40:47.890]  The three-digit number?
[40:48.450 --> 40:49.550]  On the back?
[40:49.770 --> 40:50.050]  Yeah.
[40:51.930 --> 40:52.450]  Yeah.
[40:53.210 --> 40:53.730]  One.
[40:53.970 --> 40:54.290]  Mm-hmm.
[40:55.390 --> 40:55.790]  Six.
[40:56.010 --> 40:56.270]  Uh-huh.
[40:57.210 --> 40:57.610]  Nine.
[40:57.910 --> 40:58.430]  One, six, nine.
[40:58.530 --> 40:58.710]  Okay.
[40:59.810 --> 41:00.610]  You know what?
[41:00.650 --> 41:02.350]  That's not matching in our computers.
[41:04.070 --> 41:11.990]  Could you give me your billing address just so we can verify it based on that?
[41:12.430 --> 41:18.910]  And you see what I'm doing here is I'm asking for more information so that he'll keep giving me more because of a problem on his end.
[41:19.090 --> 41:19.350]  Sorry.
[41:19.950 --> 41:20.690]  Who is this?
[41:21.130 --> 41:24.010]  Uh, this is Mr. Jenkins from Washington Mutual.
[41:24.430 --> 41:26.110]  Um, and we need to do this if...
[41:26.110 --> 41:26.710]  My address?
[41:27.030 --> 41:27.450]  Uh, yeah.
[41:27.550 --> 41:29.450]  Just the billing address attached to the credit card.
[41:29.570 --> 41:30.170]  Uh, if you could do...
[41:30.170 --> 41:30.630]  If it's a P.O.
[41:30.650 --> 41:31.590]  box or something like that.
[41:31.610 --> 41:31.890]  Address.
[41:32.130 --> 41:32.410]  Yes.
[41:33.290 --> 41:33.690]  Okay.
[41:34.010 --> 41:36.530]  Uh, three, seven, six.
[41:36.810 --> 41:37.110]  Mm-hmm.
[41:38.630 --> 41:39.430]  West 85th.
[41:39.530 --> 41:39.770]  Okay.
[41:42.570 --> 41:42.930]  Okay.
[41:42.930 --> 41:43.910]  And what city is that in?
[41:45.130 --> 41:45.990]  Oh, Baltimore.
[41:46.450 --> 41:46.710]  Okay.
[41:46.850 --> 41:47.410]  Baltimore, Maryland.
[41:48.350 --> 41:48.710]  Yeah.
[41:48.950 --> 41:49.170]  Okay.
[41:49.270 --> 41:49.470]  All right.
[41:49.510 --> 41:50.030]  We've got that.
[41:50.750 --> 41:55.310]  Um, now also, uh, for verification, can you give me your, your, your social security number?
[41:56.510 --> 41:57.430]  Now this is...
[41:57.430 --> 41:59.490]  You need my social security?
[41:59.590 --> 41:59.790]  Yeah.
[41:59.890 --> 42:00.710]  Could you give me that, please?
[42:03.090 --> 42:04.330]  Uh, the whole number.
[42:04.570 --> 42:04.750]  Yeah.
[42:04.990 --> 42:06.270]  Uh, give me, if you give me the whole number.
[42:06.370 --> 42:07.510]  Now you see this, this is something...
[42:07.510 --> 42:07.810]  From the bank?
[42:07.810 --> 42:11.210]  That people tend to, uh, uh, no, uh, your social security number.
[42:11.510 --> 42:14.690]  Uh, this is something that's, that's a lot to ask for.
[42:14.790 --> 42:16.710]  And many people will not give this information out.
[42:17.110 --> 42:18.370]  Uh, and hopefully, uh...
[42:18.370 --> 42:18.850]  The whole number?
[42:19.050 --> 42:20.370]  You're looking for the whole number?
[42:20.650 --> 42:21.870]  Actually, uh, you know what?
[42:21.970 --> 42:23.190]  Uh, I think he's suspecting something.
[42:23.610 --> 42:24.850]  Uh, actually, we don't need this.
[42:24.990 --> 42:29.250]  Instead, uh, if you can give us your, your, um, your mother's maiden name, I think that'll, that'll be fine instead.
[42:29.250 --> 42:31.110]  Sometimes you realize that...
[42:31.110 --> 42:32.150]  You don't need, you don't need a number.
[42:32.570 --> 42:34.270]  Uh, let's give me the mother's maiden name.
[42:34.490 --> 42:35.030]  Your mother's maiden name.
[42:35.170 --> 42:36.690]  Or not, I don't...
[42:36.690 --> 42:38.410]  Uh, mother?
[42:38.730 --> 42:40.050]  My mother's maiden name, right?
[42:40.050 --> 42:40.930]  Yeah, that'll be fine.
[42:41.730 --> 42:43.290]  Uh, yeah, it's, uh, Wilson.
[42:43.930 --> 42:44.170]  Wilson.
[42:44.330 --> 42:45.210]  Okay, that's, that's fine.
[42:45.310 --> 42:46.290]  We don't need your social security number.
[42:46.410 --> 42:49.570]  See, obviously we're suspecting something, so you have to sort of back out gracefully.
[42:50.070 --> 42:51.410]  Uh, and now, um...
[42:51.410 --> 42:52.490]  How long is this gonna take?
[42:52.490 --> 42:57.690]  Uh, we're, we're working on it right now, um, uh, Dylan, uh, it should be, uh, momentarily.
[42:57.850 --> 43:00.990]  And now you want to engage in some kind of small talk to get on his, on his good side.
[43:01.470 --> 43:07.390]  Uh, we're having, we're having some computer issues here ourselves where, uh, there's all kinds of technical problems.
[43:08.090 --> 43:13.370]  Um, yeah, it's, we, we use a, uh, this, um, uh, mainframe network.
[43:13.570 --> 43:15.530]  Uh, do you use a Mac or a PC yourself, Dylan?
[43:16.630 --> 43:18.810]  Uh, I don't, I don't have a use for the computer.
[43:19.070 --> 43:20.250]  Oh, you don't use a computer at all?
[43:21.190 --> 43:21.550]  Nah.
[43:22.490 --> 43:24.890]  You're, you're probably, you're probably wiser doing that.
[43:24.990 --> 43:26.150]  It's probably a lot more secure.
[43:26.850 --> 43:28.490]  Uh, hold on, I gotta flip my grilled cheese.
[43:28.730 --> 43:29.730]  Yeah, would you do that, please?
[43:30.050 --> 43:30.250]  Yeah.
[43:30.410 --> 43:38.190]  Okay, um, and I'll, I'll try to engage him in a little bit more, um, uh, banter just to get on his, um, just to get trust going there.
[43:38.730 --> 43:40.830]  Um, Dylan, are you back?
[43:41.830 --> 43:42.150]  You there?
[43:42.330 --> 43:50.550]  Okay, um, yeah, you know, we want, while this is processing, we wanted to advise you on, on, uh, tips for strong passwords so you don't have this kind of problem in the future.
[43:50.550 --> 44:01.350]  I know if you ever have to check your online account, um, a good thing to do is, um, uh, is, is just use something that's familiar to you but would be hard for somebody else, uh, to, to guess.
[44:01.490 --> 44:06.210]  Do you have a particular type of pattern that you use with your password so we can tell you if it's, if it's strong enough?
[44:07.230 --> 44:10.710]  You need my, my password, the one I use in the library for the bank.
[44:10.930 --> 44:14.130]  Yeah, like what, what kind of a password do you, is it a word, is it numbers?
[44:14.130 --> 44:15.170]  All right, the password is...
[44:15.170 --> 44:17.830]  No, don't, don't, don't give us, don't give us the password.
[44:17.970 --> 44:22.050]  Tell us, oh boy, tell us what kind of password, uh, it is.
[44:22.050 --> 44:22.870]  What does it involve?
[44:24.010 --> 44:24.170]  Oh.
[44:24.870 --> 44:34.870]  Oh, yeah, um, um, the, the month of my daughter, her birth, plus, uh, plus the name of my first dog, uh, Rove.
[44:35.090 --> 44:35.410]  Okay.
[44:35.750 --> 44:36.690]  All right, well that's good.
[44:36.770 --> 44:41.010]  That sounds like, uh, something that you'd remember, and of course I could get this information from you very easily.
[44:41.630 --> 44:41.870]  R-O-F.
[44:41.930 --> 44:45.730]  Now, I also want to demonstrate, sometimes something will happen that you can't possibly predict.
[44:45.730 --> 45:09.970]  H-O-D-O-D-E-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O-D-O But, yeah, so sometimes things happen like that.
[45:10.550 --> 45:13.390]  Dylan, I want to thank you for your help.
[45:13.390 --> 45:17.210]  I think we're basically almost done here.
[45:18.710 --> 45:27.830]  Yeah, we basically only need one more thing from you, and that is your full credit card number with expiration date.
[45:29.570 --> 45:32.190]  Wait, the credit card now, right?
[45:32.250 --> 45:33.370]  Yeah, with expiration date.
[45:34.210 --> 45:34.770]  Oh, boy.
[45:34.770 --> 45:36.390]  Now, you see, we have all this information.
[45:36.590 --> 45:39.030]  We have his credit card, the thing in the back.
[45:39.190 --> 45:40.430]  Now we're asking for the credit card number.
[45:40.530 --> 45:41.570]  We're asking for the expiration date.
[45:41.730 --> 45:48.290]  It's too much information, and almost everybody will find that to be a bit too much to give out, and we'll get suspicious.
[45:49.030 --> 45:50.070]  Dylan, are you still there?
[45:51.750 --> 45:53.090]  Mr. Jenkins, hello.
[45:53.550 --> 45:53.890]  Yes, yes.
[45:54.550 --> 45:55.670]  Can you give me that information?
[45:56.650 --> 45:58.170]  Yeah, I got the credit card right here.
[45:58.430 --> 46:01.910]  Okay, so you're going to give me all 16 digits of it and the expiration date?
[46:02.190 --> 46:02.750]  Yeah, sure.
[46:03.010 --> 46:03.250]  Okay.
[46:03.850 --> 46:05.350]  And this is to verify, right?
[46:05.970 --> 46:06.310]  Yeah.
[46:09.910 --> 46:10.270]  Hello?
[46:10.590 --> 46:10.830]  Yes.
[46:11.530 --> 46:20.130]  Now, most people would get a little suspicious here and would not give out this information, but apparently we have somebody that will give out as much information as we possibly could ask for.
[46:20.210 --> 46:24.430]  It's a bit much to expect this to happen when you actually try this yourself.
[46:24.910 --> 46:26.950]  So, Dylan, are you actually going to give me all this information?
[46:28.570 --> 46:28.930]  Hello?
[46:29.550 --> 46:30.150]  You ready?
[46:30.370 --> 46:33.030]  Yes, you're going to give me all these numbers, all this information.
[46:33.030 --> 46:35.710]  Yeah, the Washington Mutual card, right?
[46:35.770 --> 46:36.250]  Right, yeah.
[46:37.530 --> 46:37.870]  All right.
[46:39.810 --> 46:41.770]  All right, you ready at four?
[46:42.150 --> 46:49.530]  All right, Dylan, I'm going to stop you right there, Dylan, because you're giving way too much information out, and I cannot believe that anybody would actually be this dim.
[46:50.570 --> 46:52.670]  That's because, Dylan, you don't actually exist.
[46:52.910 --> 46:53.210]  Would you call me?
[46:53.210 --> 46:54.210]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[46:54.670 --> 46:56.970]  I called Dylan that, but this is not Dylan.
[46:56.990 --> 46:58.310]  This is Kyle in Seattle.
[46:58.310 --> 46:59.030]  How are you doing, Kyle?
[46:59.410 --> 47:00.370]  Hey, what's up, man?
[47:00.450 --> 47:12.630]  Well, we just decided to put this little impromptu demonstration on just to show people how it's done live and how sometimes you just give out way too much information, and I think you weren't suspicious enough even playing that role.
[47:13.510 --> 47:13.730]  Really?
[47:13.730 --> 47:18.310]  Yeah, I think, you know, giving out the whole credit card number, Kyle, that's too much.
[47:19.670 --> 47:29.030]  But maybe in your real voice, maybe in your real words, you could tell people why they should be calling 212-209-2950 right now to pledge for this amazing package.
[47:30.590 --> 47:32.570]  Well, first of all, you get the radio station.
[47:32.710 --> 47:56.450]  You get amazing content and this radio show off the hook, and that gives you access to this entire world of people with an interest in technology and what's going on with technology as it develops and how it's shaped on into the future, and it keeps you connected to that.
[47:56.590 --> 48:17.690]  And I think also with this particular package, you're able to have access to all of the history, all of the really important things that have progressed over time, and social engineering being one very particular discipline, which I think is pretty understandable to everybody.
[48:17.690 --> 48:23.190]  Most people understand what it's about, being duped or, you know, the wool pulled over your eyes.
[48:24.150 --> 48:25.590]  You get to see it progress.
[48:25.910 --> 48:44.730]  With this package, eight different panels over the years, you get to see how the magazine, how you've changed, how the conferences have changed, how the different things relevant to personal information, you know, the kinds of personal information that we have,
[48:44.750 --> 48:48.930]  that we, that is important, that isn't, and that kind of thing, how that's changed over the years.
[48:49.130 --> 48:49.310]  Right.
[48:50.230 --> 48:56.810]  And, yeah, I mean, it's commercial radio, commercial free radio.
[48:56.930 --> 48:57.470]  Right, yes.
[48:58.110 --> 48:59.650]  You could not do this on commercial radio.
[49:00.070 --> 49:01.150]  Yeah, this is not commercial.
[49:01.150 --> 49:02.090]  No way, no how.
[49:02.250 --> 49:05.410]  We have open phone lines, 212-209-2950.
[49:05.410 --> 49:06.290]  Please call in.
[49:06.490 --> 49:12.270]  Pledge of $80 gets you eight different DVDs with actual social engineering demonstration.
[49:12.450 --> 49:14.610]  What you just heard was staged.
[49:14.610 --> 49:16.850]  We do not stage any of them at the conference, though.
[49:16.910 --> 49:18.830]  Those are all done live to actual people.
[49:18.990 --> 49:30.830]  And what I want to do now is go to our final excerpt of the night, which comes from H2K in the year 2000, and Bernie, this is where we actually make reference to the AT&T thing that went on.
[49:31.350 --> 49:33.730]  Kyle, I want to thank you very much for participating in that.
[49:33.730 --> 49:34.990]  I hope we didn't scare you too much.
[49:36.030 --> 49:36.490]  No, no.
[49:36.690 --> 49:39.050]  Thank you for letting me participate.
[49:39.410 --> 49:41.310]  And please, people, call in.
[49:41.650 --> 49:41.950]  All right.
[49:42.210 --> 49:44.030]  212-209-2950.
[49:44.030 --> 49:48.050]  For $80, you get eight DVDs, each with a different social engineering panel.
[49:48.050 --> 49:58.010]  And again, for $55, you'll get an autographed copy of the Dear Hacker compilation of letters to the editor over the years, from 1984 all the way to 2010.
[49:58.970 --> 50:00.990]  212-209-2950.
[50:00.990 --> 50:03.170]  You can add those two numbers together and get both if you want.
[50:03.170 --> 50:13.830]  But what we're really focusing on right now is the never-before-offered social engineering panels from eight different conferences, starting in 1994, ending in 2010.
[50:13.830 --> 50:15.430]  Let's go to 2000.
[50:15.890 --> 50:17.830]  212-209-2950.
[50:18.750 --> 50:19.510]  Okay.
[50:19.950 --> 50:23.390]  This, a bunch of people got this, this little memo.
[50:23.830 --> 50:25.830]  Be aware of who is calling.
[50:26.310 --> 50:36.230]  AT&T security warns employees this weekend to be especially careful about giving proprietary company information to anyone claiming to be an AT&T employee or customer.
[50:36.230 --> 50:42.710]  As part of a H2K hacker conference, July
[50:47.140 --> 50:50.780]  14th to 16th in New York City, there is a social engineering contest.
[50:51.500 --> 50:52.480]  Oh, that was painful.
[50:52.580 --> 50:52.840]  Thank you.
[50:53.320 --> 50:59.460]  There was a social engineering contest where hackers tried to use the phone in an attempt to gain proprietary information about a company.
[50:59.700 --> 51:07.420]  If anyone unknown to you calls for such information, request a callback number and check it before returning the call.
[51:07.780 --> 51:12.880]  Verify the person is an AT&T employee or legitimate customer, and if he or she has a need to know.
[51:13.120 --> 51:17.300]  If you can't verify employment or the number, don't give out the information.
[51:18.320 --> 51:27.320]  Any incident or apparent attempt to compromise security of the company's network and or computer systems should be reported immediately to AT&T corporate security.
[51:29.520 --> 51:33.620]  I think AT&T corporate security should be the first target.
[51:38.700 --> 51:41.140]  I'd like to see more information about this myself.
[51:47.950 --> 51:49.570]  Did everybody else write that number down?
[52:05.340 --> 52:07.740]  AT&T corporate security, this is Jim.
[52:07.880 --> 52:08.460]  I'm helping you.
[52:08.460 --> 52:08.960]  Yeah, hi.
[52:09.220 --> 52:10.220]  This is Mr. Goldstein.
[52:10.380 --> 52:11.700]  I'm over in sales.
[52:12.140 --> 52:13.080]  I'm in the Americas.
[52:13.900 --> 52:17.940]  I've gotten a memo about something that might be going on this weekend.
[52:18.080 --> 52:28.300]  I was wondering if you could give me more information concerning something having to do with information being obtained by people that weren't supposed to obtain it or something like that.
[52:29.380 --> 52:30.180]  There's various sketches.
[52:30.360 --> 52:31.100]  I heard a third hand.
[52:31.340 --> 52:34.380]  But there's something that we should be able to be more careful this weekend.
[52:34.620 --> 52:36.100]  Any information on that?
[52:36.900 --> 52:37.040]  Yeah.
[52:37.640 --> 52:41.200]  You should definitely be careful about giving any information.
[52:41.200 --> 52:49.780]  I mean, it's always a good idea to be especially careful of, you know, giving out information if somebody's calling in.
[52:51.560 --> 52:57.920]  This weekend what's going on is some sort of a conference for hackers.
[52:58.080 --> 53:03.080]  They're calling in and doing a live demonstration.
[53:04.580 --> 53:07.540]  And so they'll call into different businesses
[53:12.480 --> 53:18.660]  to obtain information so that they can use that to defraud, probably ultimately to defraud you or your business.
[53:18.940 --> 53:21.480]  You're saying there's a whole conference of people doing this?
[53:23.340 --> 53:25.000]  That's what I understand, right?
[53:25.560 --> 53:26.400]  And that's legal?
[53:28.680 --> 53:31.600]  I don't know the legalities around it.
[53:31.660 --> 53:34.360]  I guess, you know, for them to meet is not illegal.
[53:34.620 --> 53:38.840]  But, you know, certainly if they can do something that's...
[53:40.260 --> 53:42.540]  You know, I don't know all the surrounding of it.
[53:42.680 --> 53:45.200]  But in a nutshell, be on the lookout, you know.
[53:45.200 --> 53:45.280]  Uh-huh.
[53:46.360 --> 53:48.280]  This weekend at any time.
[53:49.440 --> 53:52.200]  Today, I know, was the day that, uh...
[53:52.940 --> 53:55.200]  By the way, the memo that you had received was...
[53:56.960 --> 53:58.900]  You received an email or...
[53:58.900 --> 54:05.140]  Actually, a co-employee who has since lost the memo told me about it, and that's why I'm calling for clarification.
[54:05.580 --> 54:07.060]  Is there any way to get another copy of that?
[54:07.640 --> 54:10.100]  No, you were... you were in AT&T?
[54:10.420 --> 54:11.020]  Yeah, yeah.
[54:11.960 --> 54:12.900]  I knew the Americas.
[54:13.580 --> 54:13.940]  Okay.
[54:14.900 --> 54:15.260]  Um...
[54:15.260 --> 54:16.700]  Do you have a...
[54:16.700 --> 54:17.620]  What was your name?
[54:18.140 --> 54:19.440]  Uh, I'm sorry, Mr. Goldstein.
[54:20.040 --> 54:20.400]  Armand.
[54:21.940 --> 54:22.300]  Um...
[54:22.300 --> 54:24.360]  If I give you a fax number, would you be able to just send that over?
[54:25.280 --> 54:26.360]  Well, I don't...
[54:28.120 --> 54:30.380]  I mean, I just find it amazing that, uh...
[54:30.380 --> 54:33.940]  You say there's a group of people that are planning to do something and nothing can stop them?
[54:34.860 --> 54:38.280]  Well, I mean, it's like, you know, the freedom of, uh...
[54:43.460 --> 54:45.760]  Actually, hidden from the public, it's...
[54:45.760 --> 54:47.540]  It's more or less, you know, the...
[54:47.540 --> 54:53.760]  They can't, obviously, in the meeting advocate to doing anything illegal, but, uh...
[54:53.760 --> 55:04.740]  But the, the things that they may talk about, um, in the meeting, um, are for that, that purpose of probably, uh, you know, hackers, you know?
[55:04.900 --> 55:05.660]  It is...
[55:05.660 --> 55:06.240]  Yeah.
[55:06.880 --> 55:16.540]  But in general, uh, like I said, uh, yeah, anytime somebody calls in and asks for something like, you know, information that you wouldn't normally give out, it's just
[55:22.240 --> 55:24.800]  hidden information that you don't feel comfortable giving out, it...
[55:24.800 --> 55:27.160]  The memo just states, you know, don't...
[55:27.160 --> 55:37.100]  Don't do what they're asking, um, without asking for their callback number or their name, and then call them back and verify that they're who they say they are, and all of that.
[55:37.100 --> 55:38.900]  Yeah, that's, that's the only thing the memo just stated.
[55:39.100 --> 55:41.420]  You know, it was in AT&T today.
[55:41.900 --> 55:42.100]  Uh-huh.
[55:42.620 --> 55:42.920]  Okay.
[55:43.280 --> 55:47.960]  And it went out to every AT&T office, uh, I assume, more than just locally, right?
[55:49.040 --> 55:49.400]  Yeah.
[55:49.680 --> 55:57.920]  You know, I know it was available in AT&T today, and, uh, Friday, I believe, um, I can hear...
[56:02.530 --> 56:03.350]  Can you hold for a moment?
[56:03.610 --> 56:03.970]  Yeah, sure.
[56:04.190 --> 56:04.450]  Thank you.
[56:04.710 --> 56:05.070]  Thank you.
[56:09.040 --> 56:10.760]  It's always a bad sign when they put you on hold.
[56:12.240 --> 56:14.140]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[56:14.340 --> 56:15.540]  Get the 8 DVD set.
[56:16.500 --> 56:17.280]  Pledge of $80.
[56:18.440 --> 56:23.260]  Every social engineering panel ever put on at the Hackers on Planet Earth conference.
[56:23.420 --> 56:24.520]  Your last name was Goldstein.
[56:24.740 --> 56:24.980]  Yeah.
[56:25.940 --> 56:29.140]  Uh, you know, this, this speakerphone is really...
[56:29.900 --> 56:31.920]  It's not, it's a Radio Shack speakerphone.
[56:32.000 --> 56:32.400]  Okay.
[56:32.820 --> 56:33.920]  Uh, what was your first name?
[56:34.120 --> 56:34.520]  Armand.
[56:34.560 --> 56:35.840]  A-R-M-A-N-D.
[56:40.600 --> 56:41.400]  Anyway, um...
[56:41.400 --> 56:49.120]  Uh, I was just looking at, uh, uh, internally if it's your, uh, email list there.
[56:49.820 --> 56:51.720]  And, uh, I didn't see your name here.
[56:51.920 --> 56:52.140]  No.
[56:53.980 --> 56:55.500]  No, it's not likely you would.
[56:56.300 --> 56:56.720]  Okay.
[56:58.880 --> 57:00.920]  Why, why, why would, why would that be?
[57:01.120 --> 57:04.920]  Well, uh, basically we were just, uh, making our first phone call.
[57:04.920 --> 57:05.340]  Yeah.
[57:27.980 --> 57:28.740]  Come on, dude.
[57:29.080 --> 57:29.440]  Telephone.
[57:35.660 --> 57:36.020]  Okay.
[57:38.420 --> 57:42.800]  From, uh, from the year 2000, that was, uh, social engineering.
[57:43.000 --> 57:44.160]  And boy, what a lot of fun that was.
[57:44.260 --> 57:48.760]  Uh, called AT&T, called the actual people, uh, behind the memo.
[57:48.900 --> 57:50.440]  And, uh, I think they, they did all right.
[57:50.540 --> 57:51.000]  They did all right.
[57:51.080 --> 57:57.800]  But, uh, many instances where they didn't do so well and it's all covered, uh, throughout the eight different conferences that we're offering tonight.
[57:57.940 --> 57:59.540]  212-209-2950.
[57:59.820 --> 58:01.400]  Please join the people on the line already.
[58:01.400 --> 58:04.480]  Help bring us over a thousand bucks for the, um, uh, for the night.
[58:04.980 --> 58:06.560]  Uh, 212-209-2950.
[58:07.080 --> 58:14.260]  Pledge of $80 gets you all eight DVDs, eight hours, at least eight hours of, uh, uh, social engineering antics.
[58:14.700 --> 58:17.400]  Uh, pledge of $55 gets you the Dear Hacker book autographed.
[58:17.760 --> 58:21.420]  And, um, if you add that together, which I think is 135, you'll get both.
[58:21.700 --> 58:23.420]  212-209-2950.
[58:23.420 --> 58:25.560]  This offer expires in just about three minutes.
[58:25.720 --> 58:26.520]  So, give us a call.
[58:26.900 --> 58:29.300]  We'll be back again next week with a two-hour show.
[58:29.480 --> 58:31.140]  So, uh, please keep those calls coming in.
[58:31.260 --> 58:34.140]  212-209-2950.
[58:34.460 --> 58:34.740]  Good night.
[58:41.540 --> 58:44.860]  To have respect on every walk that you've done.
[58:45.640 --> 58:48.750]  To have surprises waiting at your door.
[58:49.710 --> 58:52.980]  When you come on to, so you're gonna find.
[58:52.980 --> 58:57.170]  The day it rings.
[58:57.730 --> 59:01.230]  The five-piece low-bell starts to shine.
[59:01.630 --> 59:05.170]  The liquid's up, burst into sun.
[59:05.510 --> 59:09.270]  It's out of tune, the timing's wrong.
[59:09.270 --> 59:10.530]  The day it rings.
[59:10.530 --> 59:17.280]  It must be wonderful to live, to have respect on everyone that you know.
[59:17.840 --> 59:21.240]  To have surprises waiting at your door.
[59:21.240 --> 59:25.260]  When you come home to answer your telephone.
[59:50.440 --> 59:53.800]  It must be wonderful to live like you do.
[59:54.440 --> 59:57.900]  To have respect from everyone that you know.
[59:58.500 --> 01:00:01.920]  To have surprises waiting outside your door.
[01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:05.900]  When you come home to answer your telephone.
[01:00:10.460 --> 01:00:11.020]  Yeah!
[01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:18.400]  Oh, I hate to cut off the music from Off the Hook because I love their music every single time.
[01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:25.100]  However, it is now 8 o'clock here at WBAI on May the 4th, 2011.