[00:08.090 --> 00:15.330]  Thanks for listening to Al Jazeera English on the radio, broadcast exclusively by the Pacifica Radio Network, free speech radio.
[00:23.210 --> 00:26.490]  And the time is just about 7 o'clock p.m.
[00:26.490 --> 00:28.850]  You're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:29.430 --> 00:32.170]  It's time for another exciting edition of Off the Hook.
[00:50.180 --> 00:54.890]  We couldn't get much worse, we would.
[00:55.170 --> 00:57.790]  On Diddley Bom, for the best, it's back the worst.
[00:58.290 --> 01:00.290]  I hope that's understood.
[01:00.510 --> 01:01.310]  On Diddley Bom!
[01:25.990 --> 01:29.470]  We run, we jump, we swim and play.
[01:30.090 --> 01:32.330]  We roll and go on trips.
[01:33.330 --> 01:39.470]  But the things that last forever are our dear friendships.
[01:41.570 --> 01:42.890]  Camp on a wana.
[01:43.110 --> 01:45.130]  We hold you in our hearts.
[01:45.290 --> 01:49.410]  And when we think about you, it makes me want to part.
[01:50.370 --> 01:51.870]  It's I hope we never part.
[01:52.010 --> 01:53.510]  Now get it right or pay the price.
[01:55.050 --> 01:55.630]  That's right.
[01:55.770 --> 01:56.890]  It is camping season.
[01:57.090 --> 01:57.810]  You're at Off the Hook.
[01:58.110 --> 02:00.030]  And we have a bunch of campers.
[02:00.250 --> 02:02.450]  But first, let me tell you who's in the studio with me today.
[02:03.970 --> 02:04.770]  This is Rob T.
[02:04.890 --> 02:06.310]  Firefly, by the way, here with you.
[02:06.450 --> 02:08.050]  And I'm joined by Voltaire.
[02:08.250 --> 02:08.930]  Not camping.
[02:10.010 --> 02:10.730]  Dot Ritt.
[02:10.970 --> 02:11.350]  Hello.
[02:11.970 --> 02:12.170]  Hello.
[02:12.230 --> 02:12.810]  Lexicon is here.
[02:13.090 --> 02:13.290]  Hello.
[02:13.770 --> 02:14.690]  And Jim is here.
[02:14.890 --> 02:15.110]  Hi.
[02:15.790 --> 02:17.250]  And who have we got on the line?
[02:19.830 --> 02:21.010]  Do we have them on the line?
[02:23.910 --> 02:24.650]  Yes, we can.
[02:32.280 --> 02:33.020]  Hi, oh boy.
[02:33.400 --> 02:34.900]  We've got so many people here.
[02:36.100 --> 02:37.200]  Bicycle Mark over there.
[02:37.300 --> 02:37.560]  Hello.
[02:38.050 --> 02:38.600]  Bernie S.
[02:38.780 --> 02:39.280]  Bernie S.
[02:39.430 --> 02:40.300]  in Eastern Germany.
[02:40.300 --> 02:42.360]  Johannes from Austria.
[02:42.820 --> 02:43.460]  Chris Scott.
[02:44.380 --> 02:45.660]  Bobson from Bulgaria.
[02:47.060 --> 02:49.380]  Good evening from Northern Germany.
[02:49.700 --> 02:49.920]  Wow.
[02:50.000 --> 02:52.440]  You always call up, either off the wall or off the hook.
[02:52.680 --> 02:54.520]  And now you're here live in the studio in Germany.
[02:55.180 --> 02:55.640]  Indeed.
[02:56.080 --> 02:57.600]  And that looks like Kyle all the way over there.
[02:57.980 --> 02:58.600]  Hi, everybody.
[02:58.920 --> 02:59.200]  All right.
[02:59.300 --> 03:00.260]  I forgot your name.
[03:00.500 --> 03:00.800]  Attila.
[03:01.040 --> 03:02.340]  How can I forget that name?
[03:02.400 --> 03:04.300]  Attila from where?
[03:04.980 --> 03:05.800]  From the Netherlands.
[03:06.020 --> 03:06.560]  Attila from the Netherlands.
[03:06.560 --> 03:06.780]  Attila from the Netherlands.
[03:07.400 --> 03:08.120]  And, wow.
[03:08.740 --> 03:09.960]  So, we've got Juns.
[03:10.720 --> 03:11.080]  Hi.
[03:11.120 --> 03:12.280]  Do you have a microphone, Juns?
[03:12.600 --> 03:13.400]  I'll borrow this one.
[03:13.500 --> 03:13.700]  Okay.
[03:13.900 --> 03:15.140]  I'm not in the car this week.
[03:15.200 --> 03:16.920]  I can't see who you're borrowing it from, unfortunately.
[03:17.020 --> 03:17.500]  Oh, there's Mike.
[03:17.600 --> 03:17.780]  Okay.
[03:17.960 --> 03:18.240]  Hello.
[03:18.600 --> 03:19.120]  How are you doing, Mike?
[03:19.560 --> 03:20.280]  Greg Newby.
[03:20.480 --> 03:21.040]  Hey, what's up?
[03:21.380 --> 03:22.180]  Mitch Altman.
[03:22.540 --> 03:22.900]  Hello.
[03:23.620 --> 03:24.280]  Me again.
[03:24.540 --> 03:25.540]  And Red Hack here.
[03:26.400 --> 03:27.000]  Let Mike work.
[03:27.160 --> 03:28.600]  You have a clip on, Mike, or something.
[03:28.960 --> 03:29.040]  I'm sorry.
[03:29.640 --> 03:29.860]  Hello.
[03:30.140 --> 03:31.160]  You're not borrowing my mic.
[03:31.360 --> 03:31.940]  That's not fair.
[03:32.760 --> 03:33.180]  Okay.
[03:33.180 --> 03:33.940]  So, we're all here.
[03:34.060 --> 03:35.640]  And there's more people coming supposedly.
[03:35.840 --> 03:38.120]  We're actually broadcasting to the camp right now.
[03:39.100 --> 03:41.240]  Actually, you know, are people listening in the camp?
[03:41.620 --> 03:44.760]  Can we have the entire camp give a big cheer at once?
[03:44.960 --> 03:46.200]  Is that possible, do you think?
[03:46.440 --> 03:47.080]  Do a countdown.
[03:47.760 --> 03:50.160]  Can someone open the door and see if anybody...
[03:50.160 --> 03:53.900]  I mean, just, you know, shout as loud as you possibly can.
[03:54.040 --> 03:55.040]  Like, someone is killing you.
[03:55.240 --> 04:02.000]  When we count down to three, two, one, just, you know, mayhem, a bloody murder, but you're gonna get some kind of million-dollar prize for shouting.
[04:02.220 --> 04:03.280]  And do we have a microphone?
[04:03.440 --> 04:04.320]  There are riots already.
[04:04.540 --> 04:04.660]  Okay.
[04:05.100 --> 04:07.740]  Three, two, one.
[04:09.140 --> 04:10.280]  Well, that was a letdown.
[04:11.420 --> 04:13.420]  I don't think anybody's listening on the camp.
[04:13.540 --> 04:15.240]  It's not really all partying right now.
[04:15.380 --> 04:16.540]  It's a really busy night.
[04:17.240 --> 04:19.300]  Thousands of people from around the world out here.
[04:19.300 --> 04:21.980]  All right, people need to tune to 98.6.
[04:23.100 --> 04:23.740]  92.6.
[04:23.760 --> 04:25.000]  I'm sorry, 92.6.
[04:25.240 --> 04:26.040]  How are you getting that right?
[04:26.380 --> 04:27.970]  That's not for listeners in New York.
[04:28.180 --> 04:28.470]  No, no.
[04:29.000 --> 04:29.600]  Obviously not.
[04:29.880 --> 04:31.700]  Yeah, you'll get a staticky signal if you try that in New York.
[04:31.800 --> 04:33.260]  But here in the camp, we have a signal.
[04:34.500 --> 04:34.820]  How...
[04:34.820 --> 04:34.880]  Five.
[04:35.560 --> 04:35.880]  Five.
[04:36.980 --> 04:38.640]  You're the actual board operator here.
[04:38.800 --> 04:38.900]  Yeah.
[04:39.000 --> 04:41.280]  You've been on the radio in New York as well when you're traveling through.
[04:41.730 --> 04:41.860]  Yeah.
[04:41.860 --> 04:44.260]  So tell us something about this radio station that you have running here.
[04:44.660 --> 04:46.160]  Oh, well, I can talk for hours.
[04:46.380 --> 04:47.120]  What do you want to know?
[04:47.160 --> 04:47.940]  Oh, we only have one hour.
[04:48.920 --> 04:50.320]  I'll try to be brief.
[04:50.520 --> 04:53.970]  We've got a transmitter on the FM you mentioned, 92.6.
[04:55.460 --> 04:58.230]  And, well, we've got an internet stream going.
[04:58.470 --> 05:03.160]  We've got about 12 mics, which are all, well, more than all in use.
[05:03.880 --> 05:07.780]  And, yeah, we've got lots of gear and blinking lights to make it all sound good.
[05:08.680 --> 05:10.940]  How powerful is the station?
[05:13.150 --> 05:17.210]  I think we're doing 12 watts, 4 watts, and reflection.
[05:17.560 --> 05:20.470]  I've started about 8 watts now, I think.
[05:20.640 --> 05:24.360]  We started at 9, but somehow it's dropping, so we need to tune things.
[05:24.560 --> 05:25.400]  Somehow it's dropping.
[05:26.760 --> 05:27.800]  Yeah, it's electronics.
[05:28.000 --> 05:28.420]  It's alive.
[05:28.950 --> 05:29.060]  Uh-huh.
[05:29.640 --> 05:32.330]  Back in New York, is there anything you guys want to ask us before we start?
[05:32.330 --> 05:36.160]  We have all kinds of things to tell you about, but if there are any specific questions, we'd like to address them right away.
[05:36.690 --> 05:37.400]  Where are you guys?
[05:38.480 --> 05:39.210]  Oh, where are we?
[05:39.280 --> 05:39.840]  That's a good question.
[05:40.980 --> 05:41.740]  Kyle, where are we?
[05:41.980 --> 05:42.740]  Do you have any idea?
[05:42.740 --> 05:43.330]  Yes.
[05:43.460 --> 05:52.710]  Yes, we're in Fino, or Fino Fert, in the... what region would you describe this here in Germany?
[05:53.240 --> 05:53.720]  Rundenburg.
[05:53.980 --> 05:54.460]  Rundenburg.
[05:55.020 --> 05:55.500]  Rundenburg.
[05:55.580 --> 05:56.760]  Who said that with the rolling R?
[05:57.120 --> 05:57.980]  Of course me.
[05:58.120 --> 05:58.480]  Who else?
[05:58.620 --> 05:59.180]  Say it again.
[05:59.580 --> 06:00.060]  Rundenburg.
[06:00.330 --> 06:01.160]  Wow, that's great.
[06:01.600 --> 06:03.260]  And it's a former Soviet air base.
[06:03.460 --> 06:04.180]  That's the cool shit.
[06:04.480 --> 06:04.840]  Yes.
[06:05.740 --> 06:06.210]  Yeah.
[06:06.330 --> 06:06.740]  The cool stuff.
[06:12.740 --> 06:22.980]  Here on this camp, this is the second time this camp has taken place, and on this particular area, and it's...
[06:22.980 --> 06:27.060]  Does somebody want to describe the basic scenery as to what you see when you're walking around?
[06:27.160 --> 06:28.710]  It's kind of a dump, actually.
[06:29.080 --> 06:37.260]  I mean, literally speaking, there's a bunch of old military equipment that's been left here to be looked at and to gradually fall into oblivion.
[06:37.760 --> 06:43.000]  Now, when you say a dump, a military equipment, you don't mean like they left their artillery behind.
[06:43.180 --> 06:43.710]  A depot.
[06:43.840 --> 06:44.420]  A depot.
[06:44.560 --> 06:45.800]  There's a simulated artillery.
[06:45.920 --> 06:46.680]  I don't know if anyone's seen it.
[06:46.760 --> 06:50.420]  There's actually missiles, like cardboard missiles, in some of the back rooms around here.
[06:50.560 --> 06:51.060]  They look kind of cool.
[06:51.060 --> 06:55.830]  Well, I saw a truck-mounted missile, which didn't look like cardboard to me.
[06:56.640 --> 06:59.020]  Some of it's real, and some of it is sort of simulated.
[06:59.100 --> 07:00.400]  It's from various periods.
[07:00.710 --> 07:00.740]  Yeah.
[07:00.740 --> 07:03.640]  But it's uglier than crap.
[07:03.640 --> 07:07.710]  But I think what's kind of neat is that people here have actually made it look nicer.
[07:07.880 --> 07:08.640]  They look incredible.
[07:08.640 --> 07:09.330]  They put lights on it.
[07:09.380 --> 07:14.620]  They've projected things on various old pieces of airplane and helicopter machinery.
[07:14.620 --> 07:16.660]  And it looks nice, even though, yes.
[07:17.640 --> 07:19.560]  And there's even Gorilla Knit.
[07:21.210 --> 07:21.980]  Gorilla Knit.
[07:22.300 --> 07:23.640]  What happened to your voice, Mitch?
[07:23.840 --> 07:25.520]  I've been worshiping all day.
[07:25.660 --> 07:26.280]  It's only one.
[07:26.280 --> 07:26.800]  It's a smooth voice.
[07:27.100 --> 07:28.220]  It's losing my voice.
[07:28.600 --> 07:29.240]  What happened?
[07:29.280 --> 07:30.120]  You've been talking a lot?
[07:30.260 --> 07:31.540]  Getting a lot of instructions?
[07:31.540 --> 07:33.360]  Not the usual hardware hacking.
[07:33.600 --> 07:35.360]  Except this time, it's the hardware hacking tent.
[07:35.500 --> 07:38.180]  It's the biggest tent in all of...
[07:38.180 --> 07:40.120]  Mitch, this is the first day of a five-day event.
[07:40.740 --> 07:42.900]  What are you going to be like in the next four days?
[07:43.180 --> 07:47.380]  Well, someone should probably get a mop and, like, sweet me out.
[07:47.680 --> 07:47.950]  Uh-huh.
[07:49.620 --> 07:58.450]  So, besides being an airport, a former Soviet airport, this site is actually run as sort of a museum.
[07:58.540 --> 08:02.420]  And they're kind enough to allow an event like this to take place.
[08:02.420 --> 08:14.500]  And the lighting and the old aircraft and things that sort of look like junk at first glance, they're actually part of what I guess is their collection.
[08:14.500 --> 08:18.330]  And they do a bit to display them and show it off.
[08:18.380 --> 08:25.460]  And I think the art event people here, as Redhack was indicating, have done a great job illuminating it.
[08:25.560 --> 08:26.900]  And it just really adds the ambiance.
[08:27.080 --> 08:29.300]  And here we are on the first full day.
[08:29.480 --> 08:30.760]  And I think we're really in swing.
[08:30.960 --> 08:34.160]  And then people are actually really starting to enjoy themselves.
[08:34.450 --> 08:36.240]  I think we had a day of talks.
[08:36.500 --> 08:38.360]  And people are settled in.
[08:38.560 --> 08:43.740]  And I think people are sort of not arriving so much as enjoying themselves.
[08:44.120 --> 08:45.100]  And the weather is great.
[08:45.540 --> 08:46.760]  Well, I wouldn't go that far.
[08:47.500 --> 08:50.260]  Those of us who didn't bring jackets with us might argue.
[08:50.400 --> 08:53.240]  Because all of a sudden, it's in the 50s and 60s.
[08:53.240 --> 08:54.720]  And I wasn't expecting that.
[08:54.830 --> 08:58.060]  Because I came from Vegas and then New York, both of which are pretty hot.
[08:58.080 --> 09:00.060]  And I was expecting Germany to be the same, but it wasn't.
[09:00.710 --> 09:02.260]  I'm loving the weather right now.
[09:02.360 --> 09:03.480]  Yeah, you're from Bulgaria.
[09:03.680 --> 09:05.400]  It's probably a lot hotter there than it is.
[09:05.400 --> 09:05.660]  Yeah.
[09:05.830 --> 09:11.400]  On Monday in Sofia, it was 33 Celsius, which is in the mid-90s.
[09:11.620 --> 09:12.020]  Yeah.
[09:13.500 --> 09:15.280]  And it was not...
[09:15.280 --> 09:17.300]  I wasn't happy with it.
[09:17.300 --> 09:22.840]  And then on Tuesday, when we landed on Tagio, they told us it's 16 Celsius outside.
[09:22.840 --> 09:26.540]  And I was so happy with still being on the plane with the weather.
[09:26.740 --> 09:27.140]  I was...
[09:27.140 --> 09:27.400]  Mm-hmm.
[09:27.660 --> 09:28.740]  And I'm enjoying the weather.
[09:28.820 --> 09:30.380]  It got a bit cold last night.
[09:30.620 --> 09:30.860]  Yes.
[09:30.860 --> 09:33.000]  And I didn't have the clothes that I bought today.
[09:33.140 --> 09:33.880]  And there's some drizzle.
[09:34.260 --> 09:34.960]  It rains a little bit.
[09:35.080 --> 09:35.140]  Oh, yeah.
[09:35.140 --> 09:36.540]  But that's part of the experience.
[09:36.540 --> 09:37.800]  And we're all having a great time.
[09:38.210 --> 09:38.880]  It's not...
[09:38.880 --> 09:39.580]  It's a drizzle.
[09:39.820 --> 09:40.720]  It's not raining.
[09:41.940 --> 09:42.560]  Mm-hmm.
[09:42.980 --> 09:46.940]  So the Chaos Communication Camp takes place every four years in Germany.
[09:47.280 --> 09:50.760]  And on the alternate, every four years, there's a camp that takes place in Holland.
[09:51.300 --> 09:54.840]  But this particular one, this is the fifth one?
[09:54.980 --> 09:55.400]  Fourth one?
[09:55.560 --> 09:56.840]  The first one was in 1999.
[09:57.520 --> 09:58.980]  So this will be the fourth one.
[09:59.380 --> 10:03.240]  And I think we have a total of 3,500 people here.
[10:03.360 --> 10:03.880]  It's sold out.
[10:04.040 --> 10:08.040]  So they stopped selling tickets to it and limited it to 3,500 people.
[10:08.720 --> 10:17.180]  And what we see right now, there's lights everywhere, displays, music, food of all sorts being served in various tents and villages.
[10:17.460 --> 10:19.380]  What were some of the villages that we have here?
[10:20.820 --> 10:21.140]  Nationalities.
[10:21.260 --> 10:22.000]  A lot of nationalities.
[10:22.120 --> 10:25.780]  There's French, Italian, German, of course, Dutch, Finnish.
[10:26.020 --> 10:27.920]  Yeah, a lot of nationality villages.
[10:28.060 --> 10:28.980]  And then some hobby villages.
[10:29.240 --> 10:31.640]  So I saw an RFID tent, for example.
[10:31.820 --> 10:33.020]  And there's an American village, too.
[10:33.280 --> 10:41.320]  In fact, before I just ducked his head in here a moment, I don't know if he's going to come back in, but if he does, he can describe that whole hackers on a plane thing that got hackers from America over here.
[10:42.140 --> 10:46.740]  And I think they even flew a plane, a prop plane over to the airport.
[10:46.900 --> 10:47.400]  This is part of it.
[10:47.460 --> 10:48.200]  This is an airport.
[10:48.420 --> 10:51.540]  This used to be a Soviet-run airport.
[10:51.820 --> 10:53.100]  And they still have a runway.
[10:53.380 --> 10:54.240]  Mitch was on that plane.
[10:54.380 --> 10:55.620]  Mitch was on the plane.
[10:55.720 --> 10:56.580]  Tell us what that was like.
[10:56.760 --> 11:01.700]  It was a 1968 Soviet aircraft that was decommissioned.
[11:02.500 --> 11:04.420]  An antenna of A-2, I believe.
[11:04.620 --> 11:04.840]  Yeah.
[11:05.040 --> 11:10.420]  And the person who bought it, bought it when the wall came down, and he's been flying it ever since.
[11:10.500 --> 11:14.080]  It used to be a training thing for people jumping out with parachutes.
[11:14.360 --> 11:14.800]  He's a biplane.
[11:15.800 --> 11:15.940]  Yeah.
[11:16.040 --> 11:17.540]  He's been maintaining it ever since, too.
[11:17.680 --> 11:18.080]  Yeah.
[11:19.160 --> 11:19.720]  That's important.
[11:19.900 --> 11:20.460]  That's an important part.
[11:20.460 --> 11:20.700]  Yeah.
[11:20.780 --> 11:22.080]  And he's really good at it.
[11:22.220 --> 11:26.420]  And while he was flying us back, he messed around with us a little bit.
[11:27.400 --> 11:28.860]  But it was a lot of fun.
[11:28.960 --> 11:30.160]  That thing just floats.
[11:30.700 --> 11:31.940]  It's an amazing vehicle.
[11:32.080 --> 11:33.840]  And it's not bumpy at all.
[11:34.500 --> 11:35.720]  Well, I wouldn't say that.
[11:35.820 --> 11:36.740]  It was very bumpy.
[11:36.940 --> 11:41.920]  I've been motion sick twice in my life and on the way back on the plane a second time.
[11:42.060 --> 11:43.100]  It's been very windy, though.
[11:43.620 --> 11:44.300]  It has been.
[11:44.880 --> 11:51.740]  And we shouldn't forget, because we haven't mentioned that yet, there's a general theme for the camp, and the theme is space.
[11:52.360 --> 11:58.320]  So today there was a big keynote by Jens and Nick, and they were talking about...
[11:58.320 --> 11:58.880]  Lars.
[11:59.520 --> 12:01.380]  Lars, Jens, and Nick.
[12:01.520 --> 12:01.660]  Yes.
[12:01.800 --> 12:01.900]  Yeah.
[12:02.140 --> 12:02.580]  Of course, yeah.
[12:02.860 --> 12:09.180]  And they were talking about their vision, their utopia of an upcoming hacker space program.
[12:09.560 --> 12:11.880]  Maybe some of you wanted to talk about that a bit.
[12:12.000 --> 12:14.460]  What would the hacker space program be like, exactly?
[12:14.600 --> 12:15.600]  Well, here's the man himself.
[12:16.100 --> 12:17.400]  It would have great lighting.
[12:18.380 --> 12:19.000]  For sure.
[12:19.760 --> 12:19.800]  Yeah.
[12:20.060 --> 12:25.020]  Maybe we can get Nick to articulate the three themes of the space program proposal.
[12:25.180 --> 12:31.780]  And I think while he's finding a microphone, the essence of this is that four years ago, there was a challenge to do hacker spaces.
[12:31.780 --> 12:32.580]  That was successful.
[12:32.620 --> 12:36.480]  So the next challenge is to put us into space, and we have a little time to do that.
[12:36.680 --> 12:37.840]  Do you want to work through the three steps?
[12:39.940 --> 12:41.280]  That mic's not on, I don't think.
[12:41.280 --> 12:42.020]  Is it?
[12:44.480 --> 12:48.100]  A wireless mic expecting to break out of the story.
[12:48.320 --> 12:49.920]  I'm leaning over the desk right now.
[12:50.100 --> 12:59.600]  Just to clarify, it's not me putting people in space, it's hackers putting themselves in space.
[12:59.840 --> 13:11.120]  And collaborating and getting together and developing the technologies and trying things that governments and corporations may not have fully explored because they didn't meet their aims.
[13:11.320 --> 13:29.100]  I think that applying the hacker ethic and applying all the wonderful knowledge and experience and passion that you see in hackerspaces, it's absolutely possible that we can put a satellite-based, as uncensorable as possible, internet up by the next camp in four years.
[13:29.100 --> 13:30.300]  And that's the first phase.
[13:30.420 --> 13:39.260]  Phase one is building a satellite-based internet network that's totally open and free and accessible to anybody, you know, with a cloth satellite dish.
[13:39.500 --> 13:52.560]  And especially as we've seen governments cut off the internet in Egypt and Syria and the long-time censorship in China and a lot of the scary laws that they're passing, you know, here in Germany and to a lesser extent in the United States.
[13:53.520 --> 13:58.280]  We can see the terrestrial-based internets are very, very sensible.
[13:58.520 --> 14:07.800]  We've seen in CubeSats and such go up already as hobby projects and school projects, so it's very possible to get an essentially hacker-based satellite into the sky.
[14:07.940 --> 14:08.860]  Hacker-based satellite.
[14:08.860 --> 14:11.200]  We're really at that stage in human development.
[14:11.320 --> 14:11.760]  That's amazing.
[14:11.960 --> 14:12.760]  I'm thrilled.
[14:13.300 --> 14:20.180]  And, I mean, Bernie should talk about that because there is a history that we can tap into with ham radio, I think, isn't it?
[14:20.180 --> 14:23.460]  Yeah, I pointed out at Nick's talk earlier, yesterday.
[14:23.760 --> 14:24.140]  Or today?
[14:24.340 --> 14:24.540]  Today.
[14:24.900 --> 14:26.080]  It's a time of...
[14:26.960 --> 14:50.220]  Yeah, the ham radio community for literally the past three decades has launched several amateur satellites, voice and data satellites, without having to pay any money for a launch vehicle, just by using their contacts with government and commercial satellite launchers to use their satellites which are smaller,
[14:50.840 --> 14:54.620]  amateur satellites which are smaller as ballast weight, which is necessary.
[14:54.860 --> 14:57.260]  And you can use dead weight or you can use a non-profit satellite.
[14:57.560 --> 15:01.940]  I'm hoping that the hacker community can coordinate with the...
[15:01.940 --> 15:08.240]  at least, like, cross over with the amateur radio community and learn from what they have in getting several of their satellites into space.
[15:09.560 --> 15:17.100]  I think Nick's idea, as a challenge, like a JFK kind of challenge, we will be in space by a certain year, is a good one.
[15:17.220 --> 15:23.060]  And I think that there's a lot that the hacker community can learn from the amateur radio community in succeeding in that one.
[15:23.060 --> 15:25.980]  There are three points to the story, I think.
[15:26.240 --> 15:27.840]  So I want to make sure we hear the other two.
[15:28.020 --> 15:32.420]  Yeah, no, the two other phases, at least as I see it happening.
[15:32.700 --> 15:37.920]  And that's an important distinction is that I see this not as me saying, oh, we should do this.
[15:37.980 --> 15:41.820]  But I see this as something that's already in progress in hackerspaces.
[15:42.000 --> 15:53.740]  And I think that by just using this camp, focusing on the theme of project flow control and collaborating and talking about it and actually believing it to be possible, it will happen.
[15:53.740 --> 15:54.840]  And it will happen of its own.
[15:54.860 --> 15:58.280]  It will happen in ways that are wonderful and unimaginable.
[15:58.420 --> 16:08.640]  Just like the hackerspaces movement, four years after the last CCC camp, is wonderful and expansive and incredible in ways we couldn't have even imagined.
[16:08.960 --> 16:14.460]  My only goal was showing people hackerspaces and letting go from there.
[16:14.460 --> 16:17.360]  And it took off in an incredible way.
[16:17.360 --> 16:19.520]  And I think the exact same thing is happening in the space program.
[16:20.240 --> 16:24.920]  The second phase that I proposed in the keynote this morning was putting a hacker in orbit.
[16:25.700 --> 16:38.660]  I think it's absolutely possible that once we develop the technologies to put payloads into orbit, such as satellites, it's just a little bit more technology to put an actual hacker into orbit.
[16:38.660 --> 16:50.940]  And I think the important thing there to realize is that in the history of space exploration as humans, so much of putting a first person in orbit was based around nationalistic and quasi-militaristic goals.
[16:51.100 --> 17:05.730]  And I think the beauty of putting a hacker into space is that it would be the finest, most brilliant, most intelligent people representing humanity as a whole and achieving a goal like this outside of the realm of a government or a militaristic aim.
[17:05.730 --> 17:07.750]  Yes, but hackers love to tinker with things.
[17:07.960 --> 17:12.320]  And do you really want a hacker going up into space and saying, what does this button do?
[17:13.820 --> 17:16.400]  I mean, yeah, I'd like to know what the button does too.
[17:16.560 --> 17:18.680]  But are hackers the best people?
[17:18.770 --> 17:30.200]  Well, I think we can hope the hacker we send out would like to be coming back and that's something also we need to work at because that's the best bet we can have.
[17:30.200 --> 17:35.540]  Because if we send someone out who's not looking into coming back, that might be a problem.
[17:35.700 --> 17:46.380]  Now, I just wanted to ask, Nick, you were at the CCC camp four years ago, and I'd like you to basically try to remember that and compare it to it.
[17:46.540 --> 17:47.860]  It was on the same exact place.
[17:47.860 --> 17:50.540]  It was the first time that's ever happened where the camp has been on the same ground.
[17:51.290 --> 17:53.120]  Do you see any noticeable difference?
[17:56.510 --> 17:58.490]  Kind of a yes and no sort of question.
[17:58.870 --> 18:00.130]  Okay, okay, there I am.
[18:01.690 --> 18:11.150]  Yes, I do notice a difference in that we, as a community, have made an incredible amount of progress over the past four years.
[18:11.450 --> 18:17.430]  I mean, just look at the, you know, our neighbors, the Har Tent across the way, and that's an incredibly beautiful installation.
[18:18.110 --> 18:20.590]  I'm inspired by the installation that was at Har two years ago.
[18:21.130 --> 18:26.330]  But at the same time, I see a lot of the passion, the creativity, the excitement of camp.
[18:27.810 --> 18:32.410]  It's just the same as it was four years ago, only there's a little bit more of it because we have a few more people here.
[18:33.950 --> 18:35.590]  You know, I did Hackers on a Plane four years ago.
[18:35.690 --> 18:38.170]  I did Hackers on a Plane here, and now I'm familiar with the territory.
[18:38.170 --> 18:40.010]  I've been to Europe a little bit more, and it's...
[18:40.490 --> 18:42.610]  Well, there are still occasional logistical things.
[18:42.730 --> 18:48.010]  I think everything is just getting better, but all of the good parts remain the same.
[18:48.010 --> 18:51.130]  Tell us about the Hackers on a Plane, the basic theory behind all that.
[18:52.370 --> 19:03.770]  The basic theory behind it was encouraging actual face-to-face communication and interaction between hackers all around the world.
[19:03.930 --> 19:16.170]  And I think a lot of the things that we think we can accomplish in IRC or that we think we can accomplish in chats or other things just can't replace actual face-to-face communication.
[19:16.170 --> 19:30.350]  The goal of Hackers on a Plane was to get hackers from all over the world talking to each other and meeting with each other, going to each other's spaces and physically working on and enjoying projects and collaborating in ways that wouldn't be possible outside of a real face-to-face interaction,
[19:30.370 --> 19:41.910]  and also to experience other cultures and to look and see how hackers do things in other countries, in other ways, in other cultures, and bring all the best of that back home with you.
[19:41.990 --> 19:51.190]  And at the same time, travel with a group, because traveling in a group of hackers is, I think, much more fun and a much more rewarding experience than traveling on your own.
[19:51.450 --> 19:51.890]  Hey, Nick.
[19:51.890 --> 19:52.110]  All right.
[19:52.230 --> 19:55.990]  Now, those of us who listen to the show, I think, Bernie, maybe you know this.
[19:56.570 --> 20:00.530]  It was a CCC camp maybe four years or eight years ago.
[20:00.750 --> 20:07.570]  We were talking for a good 20, 25 minutes without realizing that we were actually off the air and interviewing people all over the place.
[20:08.210 --> 20:09.790]  What was that four years ago or eight years ago?
[20:09.910 --> 20:10.830]  I think it was eight years ago.
[20:10.830 --> 20:17.770]  Yeah, we were a conference called, and we had multiple extensions on the DECT cordless phone system, I think, there at that conference.
[20:18.030 --> 20:19.710]  Maybe it was mobile phones.
[20:19.790 --> 20:29.390]  But in any case, the lead connection in that conference, they hung up their phone, and we didn't realize we were off the air for the better part of half an hour.
[20:29.630 --> 20:32.090]  Now, do you think that might be happening now, what we're talking about?
[20:32.250 --> 20:32.250]  No.
[20:32.250 --> 20:34.230]  This is a much better situation.
[20:34.250 --> 20:36.990]  We have a fantastic studio here from...
[20:36.990 --> 20:38.070]  What's the name of the radio station here?
[20:39.530 --> 20:40.650]  That's Binary Voice.
[20:40.650 --> 20:42.450]  The Binary Voice radio station here.
[20:42.450 --> 20:43.130]  And you can listen to it.
[20:43.250 --> 20:44.390]  How do you listen to it?
[20:44.530 --> 20:48.250]  Those of us who want to listen after the show is over, you can still listen to Binary Voice.
[20:48.710 --> 20:58.410]  Yeah, we are broadcasting through the Signal Hackerspace radio infrastructure, so you go to signal.hackerspaces.org, and it'll explain itself there.
[20:58.530 --> 21:00.790]  Is there a URL we could give our listeners in here?
[21:00.850 --> 21:01.250]  We just did.
[21:01.610 --> 21:01.930]  Yeah, that's it.
[21:02.070 --> 21:02.270]  Okay.
[21:04.730 --> 21:07.330]  But where would they find the streaming audio, though?
[21:07.330 --> 21:08.930]  Oh, it's a subdomate.
[21:09.070 --> 21:11.770]  Signal.hackerspaces.org.
[21:12.030 --> 21:12.310]  Excellent.
[21:12.650 --> 21:12.850]  All right.
[21:13.010 --> 21:14.330]  Now, let's just...
[21:14.330 --> 21:16.490]  We have like 12 microphones around the table here.
[21:16.510 --> 21:18.470]  Let's just verify that we are still on the air.
[21:18.830 --> 21:19.950]  New York City, are you there?
[21:20.150 --> 21:21.350]  You may be all right down there.
[21:21.430 --> 21:24.410]  I don't know what I'm doing up here, so we might have been off the air for...
[21:25.990 --> 21:30.870]  Well, at least you and I are talking, and a bunch of in the room here are talking.
[21:31.010 --> 21:31.470]  Yes, Voltaire.
[21:31.470 --> 21:31.870]  That's pretty cool.
[21:32.250 --> 21:32.930]  Is there...
[21:32.930 --> 21:36.290]  What's the third, um, proposal for the hackers in space?
[21:38.390 --> 21:39.750]  Oh, yes, I never finished that.
[21:39.890 --> 21:45.410]  So after putting a hacker in orbit, which would be the second phase, third phase is hacker on the moon.
[21:46.090 --> 21:46.730]  And I...
[21:46.730 --> 21:48.670]  Hang on, is it raining on us right now?
[21:48.810 --> 21:50.090]  That static sound is rain.
[21:50.910 --> 21:51.910]  Can we just be quiet for a second?
[21:52.010 --> 21:52.910]  I want people to hear this.
[21:53.090 --> 21:54.090]  I don't know if you can hear it over the phone.
[21:56.670 --> 21:57.430]  You guys hear that?
[21:57.550 --> 21:58.870]  Are you guys able to hear that in New York?
[21:58.870 --> 21:58.930]  We're...
[21:58.930 --> 22:00.290]  We're in a tent, people.
[22:00.610 --> 22:03.570]  We're in a tent with 12 microphones, and under a nice tent.
[22:03.810 --> 22:04.770]  It's really loud.
[22:05.230 --> 22:10.230]  I like rain way better than burning mad, like alkaloid rain does.
[22:10.830 --> 22:14.930]  So, I'm really fine with rain, and greenness, and grass.
[22:16.090 --> 22:16.210]  Please.
[22:16.410 --> 22:18.250]  Oh, Nick, we're sorry to interrupt, but it's really nature's fault.
[22:18.670 --> 22:19.690]  That was another...
[22:19.690 --> 22:20.330]  Go ahead.
[22:20.950 --> 22:27.370]  I think the only thing I had to add to that was, I firmly believe that we can put a hacker on the moon in the next 23 years.
[22:27.650 --> 22:28.750]  Well, I sure hope so.
[22:28.750 --> 22:31.530]  A lot of people I know want a hacker on the moon a lot sooner than that.
[22:32.390 --> 22:32.750]  But...
[22:32.750 --> 22:34.710]  We're just going to have to wait and be patient.
[22:34.770 --> 22:35.490]  Certain hackers.
[22:35.750 --> 22:35.890]  Uh-huh.
[22:35.970 --> 22:36.610]  So, there's...
[22:36.610 --> 22:47.210]  One thing we should mention is, people in New York and around the world might be listening to this broadcast, so they might catch it on the internet later, and it's not too late to contribute ideas to this space plan.
[22:47.350 --> 22:51.590]  There's a wiki and a whole bunch of subset topics that people can contribute their expertise to.
[22:51.850 --> 22:52.390]  Yeah, stop, Rhett.
[22:52.390 --> 22:56.030]  Uh, I already have a contribution for a possible fourth stage.
[22:56.870 --> 22:58.050]  Hackerspace on the moon.
[22:58.690 --> 22:59.130]  Oh.
[22:59.270 --> 23:01.070]  In the next half of the century.
[23:01.350 --> 23:01.670]  I don't know.
[23:01.830 --> 23:02.530]  What do you call it?
[23:02.750 --> 23:03.610]  There's got to be a clever name.
[23:03.670 --> 23:04.670]  It's going to need a stamp.
[23:05.190 --> 23:06.330]  It's going to need a stamp, yeah.
[23:06.690 --> 23:07.010]  Definitely.
[23:07.270 --> 23:08.750]  International Hackerspace Station.
[23:09.550 --> 23:10.310]  On the moon.
[23:11.190 --> 23:11.690]  Hackerspace space.
[23:11.690 --> 23:22.890]  We have these passports now, these diplomatic, uh, space passports, I guess, to get us written out of the transfer station and through the, uh, uh, HSA, that's the Hacker Security Association security, uh, system.
[23:23.970 --> 23:25.510]  You'll still have to go through the metal detectors.
[23:26.690 --> 23:29.850]  Mitch Altman put together these great, uh, hackerspace passports.
[23:30.450 --> 23:34.330]  Um, Mitch, can you talk a little bit about these diplomatic passports that I've been seeing around the conference?
[23:34.630 --> 23:38.670]  Yeah, I made 2,600, uh, diplomatic passports, hackerspace passports.
[23:38.670 --> 23:42.490]  Uh, they are patterned after the United States passport.
[23:42.730 --> 23:49.330]  But instead of welcoming people at your border with fingerprints and a photograph, it actually encourages people to cross borders.
[23:49.710 --> 23:57.530]  So, uh, it's not that you need one of these to go to a hackerspace, but just to encourage people to travel around and visit hackerspaces as much as they can.
[23:57.830 --> 24:06.850]  And, uh, and if every hackerspace has their own stamp, then people can, uh, show off all the stamps in their hackerspace, uh, passport.
[24:06.850 --> 24:13.430]  Like, uh, I've only been here, uh, a couple days where people have been stamping my passport and it's already got two pages full.
[24:13.810 --> 24:13.950]  Yeah.
[24:14.150 --> 24:20.330]  And not unlike when you travel abroad to certain countries, I already had a hard time from the guy running the stamp at the, uh, Austrian tent.
[24:23.110 --> 24:24.490]  And where can you get your own?
[24:24.690 --> 24:30.090]  He took a moment before he stamped my passport and asked me why I went to other hackerspaces and what I was doing there.
[24:34.650 --> 24:35.010]  Wow.
[24:35.210 --> 24:36.510]  What, what, what else have we seen at the camp?
[24:36.790 --> 24:41.890]  Uh, I think any other, uh, I think Kyle has a, that's a great overview of, uh, he got here several days ago, didn't you, Kyle?
[24:41.990 --> 24:45.470]  And you saw the infrastructure of this, this amazing camp being built from the ground up.
[24:46.070 --> 24:46.430]  Yes.
[24:46.530 --> 24:51.330]  I, I arrived on, uh, Friday because, uh, I wanted to volunteer the buildup specifically.
[24:51.710 --> 24:57.830]  Um, I did that at, uh, Harvard, which is my first, uh, European camp, uh, hacker camp.
[24:58.010 --> 25:04.150]  And so I arrived, um, I found a camping area, uh, in the forest near the angels.
[25:04.430 --> 25:13.390]  And, um, if you haven't already guessed that angels are, um, the volunteers at these kinds of events that happens at Congress, um, as well as the camp.
[25:13.570 --> 25:20.590]  And so we camp together and we're responsible for making everyone's time awesome and for making everything here work.
[25:20.710 --> 25:28.070]  And, um, we basically are the go-to people to make it all, um, appear the way it does now.
[25:28.210 --> 25:31.450]  There are things that you would not believe that angels have to do.
[25:31.730 --> 25:35.150]  Uh, and it's not just setting up AV and setting up networks and things like that.
[25:35.210 --> 25:38.190]  What are some of the tasks that you've had to, uh, undertake in the last few days?
[25:38.690 --> 25:45.510]  Yeah, so I got here and there were tents and some basic lights and, um, all of the, uh, data closets, which I'll get to in a minute.
[25:45.690 --> 25:48.450]  And, um, uh, most of the facilities were here.
[25:48.850 --> 25:53.850]  Um, uh, the, there was a large shower that got brought in afterwards and just basic stuff like that.
[25:53.990 --> 25:58.350]  All the stuff that you really need to make something like this, uh, sanitary, safe and healthy.
[25:59.070 --> 26:06.610]  Um, when I got here, um, most of the infrastructure was in, uh, for the network, but, um, not all of it.
[26:06.850 --> 26:14.110]  And they needed a lot of help, uh, digging because they had, um, rigged up a trench digging, um, uh, device.
[26:14.110 --> 26:18.030]  It was basically being dragged behind a car as far as I know, or something like that.
[26:18.150 --> 26:18.450]  I don't know.
[26:18.570 --> 26:21.690]  Maybe you can speak a little bit more about that, but it broke, and so we had to shovel.
[26:22.090 --> 26:23.470]  And so I did a lot of ditch digging.
[26:23.650 --> 26:25.250]  You know, digging ditches for a hacker company.
[26:25.270 --> 26:27.650]  People don't think that that's a part of a hacker company, digging ditches.
[26:27.770 --> 26:31.830]  Yeah, but it's very important because, uh, the infrastructure here is, is pretty substantial.
[26:32.350 --> 26:37.250]  And, um, so there's a lot of optics and, uh, really sensitive stuff that's buried underground.
[26:37.250 --> 26:41.290]  And it's best that it's buried because a lot of people are partying and having fun, and they don't have to think about it.
[26:41.370 --> 26:43.310]  The network's just there, and it works quite well.
[26:43.310 --> 26:45.250]  Um, so...
[26:45.250 --> 26:47.610]  Attila, do you have anything to add to how the network was built?
[26:47.970 --> 26:51.710]  Um, well, I can't tell anything about the digging thing.
[26:51.890 --> 26:52.810]  I wasn't here then.
[26:53.650 --> 26:55.450]  I let Angel do the work for me.
[26:56.470 --> 27:00.550]  Um, well, I can answer any specific questions you have.
[27:00.750 --> 27:03.610]  Uh, explaining the network in five minutes is, uh, yeah.
[27:03.990 --> 27:04.390]  Absolutely.
[27:04.550 --> 27:06.230]  So, um, uh, what is the uplink?
[27:06.430 --> 27:08.070]  Uh, how are we getting connectivity to the internet?
[27:08.470 --> 27:12.170]  Um, how many, uh, how many, uh, data closets are there?
[27:13.290 --> 27:14.530]  Um, well, we have two...
[27:14.530 --> 27:15.510]  And what do the data closets look like?
[27:16.250 --> 27:19.570]  Uh, we have two gigabits, up to the rest of the world.
[27:20.350 --> 27:24.790]  And, uh, the Daten clothes, uh, so they call them.
[27:25.030 --> 27:29.670]  Uh, we have 30, but, uh, three were used before we can put locks on them.
[27:30.430 --> 27:30.870]  Uh...
[27:30.870 --> 27:33.370]  Explain, explain what the Daten clothes are.
[27:33.470 --> 27:33.990]  Yes, please.
[27:34.230 --> 27:41.550]  Okay, uh, you have the mobile toilets, uh, they use for building and such, and we ordered them empty, with no, uh, cleaning stuff in them.
[27:42.290 --> 27:47.570]  And, well, we put the switches and stuff in there, so they are dry, and we can protect the fibers and all.
[27:47.810 --> 27:50.390]  And for the Americans in the audience, that's port-a-potties.
[27:50.930 --> 27:51.330]  Okay.
[27:52.870 --> 27:56.130]  And you're saying they actually got used before you got a chance to, uh...
[27:56.130 --> 27:56.270]  Yeah.
[27:56.570 --> 27:57.270]  Okay, that's too bad.
[27:57.370 --> 27:57.590]  Yeah.
[27:58.210 --> 27:58.450]  Wow.
[27:59.090 --> 28:03.530]  Uh, so now the network is, uh, is up now, and it's running smoothly, and, uh, no major problems?
[28:03.770 --> 28:07.510]  Uh, well, we had a big outage about an hour ago, but that seems to be fixed.
[28:07.510 --> 28:11.470]  So, uh, luckily just before the, uh, radio transmission.
[28:12.010 --> 28:13.550]  Yeah, that would have affected it, wouldn't it?
[28:13.650 --> 28:13.990]  Uh, yeah.
[28:14.270 --> 28:14.870]  Probably, wow.
[28:15.070 --> 28:15.330]  Okay.
[28:15.850 --> 28:17.550]  You're not safe yet.
[28:17.710 --> 28:19.930]  I mean, the power tends to cut as well, sometimes.
[28:35.730 --> 28:36.170]  Uh...
[28:36.170 --> 28:43.610]  We're selling all kinds of, uh, goods, all kinds of food and things like that, and there's people from all over the world, uh, sharing information and just sort of hanging out and playing music.
[28:44.030 --> 28:46.350]  Uh, and all that happened just, uh, in a week.
[28:46.530 --> 28:50.990]  We're buying, uh, building an ISP, uh, great network in four or five days.
[28:51.670 --> 28:52.110]  And...
[28:52.110 --> 28:52.630]  Yeah.
[28:53.130 --> 28:55.110]  For thousands of people in tents.
[28:55.910 --> 28:56.110]  Yeah.
[28:56.350 --> 28:58.390]  Really, uh, it hasn't been much media attention.
[28:59.190 --> 29:00.510]  Um, I don't know.
[29:00.850 --> 29:03.390]  Uh, uh, uh, the network specific or...
[29:04.390 --> 29:12.470]  Well, as you walk around, I notice that, uh, you have a lot of tents, you have a lot of, uh, uh, vehicles, you know, sort of camper vehicles, and you see power everywhere.
[29:12.470 --> 29:14.730]  And you see internet cables running into the vehicles.
[29:15.070 --> 29:17.970]  And, of course, there's ubiquitous, uh, wireless as well.
[29:18.070 --> 29:21.250]  How many, uh, megawatts of power do you have on the, uh, camp right now?
[29:21.610 --> 29:22.650]  I have no idea.
[29:22.770 --> 29:23.850]  I'm not from the power tents.
[29:24.090 --> 29:24.870]  Quite a few, though.
[29:24.990 --> 29:25.390]  Quite a few.
[29:25.510 --> 29:26.790]  So, so it's, it's quite a sight to behold.
[29:27.030 --> 29:29.690]  You know, people, uh, people, uh, the dream of having internet to their home.
[29:29.810 --> 29:31.990]  And now, of course, you have it to your cat here in, uh, in Germany.
[29:33.350 --> 29:35.990]  I mean, I want to know how we're connected to New York.
[29:36.650 --> 29:38.150]  I, you know, I'm Dan Brino.
[29:38.810 --> 29:39.990]  Who, who set this up?
[29:39.990 --> 29:41.930]  And how, how are we actually talking to the people?
[29:42.130 --> 29:42.530]  They look for it.
[29:43.090 --> 29:44.150]  I think we're talking to it.
[29:44.290 --> 29:45.030]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[29:45.430 --> 29:50.890]  Um, well, uh, actually, it's, it's a bit, uh, we're using Skype, um, to go to New York.
[29:51.030 --> 29:53.890]  And that, uh, uh, into our main, uh, mix, mixing desk.
[29:54.130 --> 29:57.990]  Um, to which also the microphones all 12, 14 now go.
[29:59.230 --> 30:02.530]  Um, and it'll get mixed together and send back to, uh, to New York.
[30:02.890 --> 30:04.010]  And that's using Skype out.
[30:04.150 --> 30:04.930]  It's not Skype to Skype?
[30:05.490 --> 30:08.170]  Uh, no, we're doing Skype to, uh, to a landline here.
[30:08.310 --> 30:08.530]  Right.
[30:08.530 --> 30:13.210]  So we're calling into a, uh, actual telephone line in, uh, in the WBA and STS.
[30:13.310 --> 30:13.830]  Indeed, yeah.
[30:13.930 --> 30:17.890]  But I, I think then it becomes actual telephone line very close to the studio.
[30:18.010 --> 30:18.130]  Right.
[30:18.590 --> 30:20.330]  How do we sound in New York, guys?
[30:20.610 --> 30:21.530]  You, you sound all right.
[30:22.490 --> 30:24.030]  Do we sound like we're just a regular phone call?
[30:24.090 --> 30:26.770]  Do we sound a little bit better than, say, Bernie S does when he calls in every week?
[30:26.830 --> 30:30.170]  I think you sound a little bit better than, uh, Bernie S from Philadelphia on his cell phone.
[30:30.750 --> 30:32.750]  How do you feel about that, Bernie S live in the studio?
[30:32.750 --> 30:34.770]  I'm glad, I'm glad it sounds better than that.
[30:35.330 --> 30:37.810]  Bernie, I can lend you a cell phone if you want to go stand.
[30:38.050 --> 30:40.470]  Uh, I don't want to subject your listeners to too much of that.
[30:40.850 --> 30:43.830]  Speaking of standing outside, uh, not the rain has abated a bit.
[30:43.990 --> 30:48.070]  We were thinking of sending somebody out to sort of, uh, randomly talk to some people.
[30:48.350 --> 30:52.430]  Uh, and since we have a wireless microphone, uh, that, uh, we've been testing.
[30:52.670 --> 30:54.590]  Uh, Kyle, are you up, uh, up for this?
[30:54.930 --> 30:55.770]  Uh, Nick, you're raising your hand.
[30:55.890 --> 30:56.890]  Do you want to go out and do this too?
[30:57.050 --> 30:57.590]  I volunteered.
[30:58.070 --> 30:58.270]  Okay.
[30:58.830 --> 31:01.430]  Maybe the two of you would be a good, uh, if you can come with me.
[31:01.430 --> 31:02.430]  Yeah, sure.
[31:02.690 --> 31:03.470]  Let's do it together.
[31:03.630 --> 31:03.930]  Let's do it.
[31:03.950 --> 31:04.610]  You'd be a good team.
[31:05.230 --> 31:05.450]  I'm done.
[31:05.890 --> 31:09.630]  Walk around, you know, talk to various people, uh, visit different communities and things like that.
[31:09.710 --> 31:12.450]  And, uh, and, uh, hopefully we'll be able to hear you.
[31:12.690 --> 31:12.910]  Yeah.
[31:13.050 --> 31:14.550]  Are we, are they going to be able to hear us?
[31:14.730 --> 31:17.950]  What is the range on this, uh, wireless microphone and feet, roughly?
[31:18.190 --> 31:19.990]  Uh, is it, is it the Sennheiser or...?
[31:21.010 --> 31:23.290]  I'm really hoping they find a community called Moose.
[31:23.290 --> 31:23.630]  We'll see.
[31:23.810 --> 31:24.130]  I mean...
[31:24.130 --> 31:24.990]  Which microphone is it?
[31:25.170 --> 31:31.990]  You have to understand, this is our first day of production here, so, uh, we finally don't know if all the buttons ready are supposed to be in there.
[31:32.310 --> 31:33.730]  Coon, please stop apologizing.
[31:33.750 --> 31:35.410]  This works much better than WBAI.
[31:36.310 --> 31:37.610]  It's a Behringer microphone.
[31:37.750 --> 31:39.450]  It just said that over WBAI, you know.
[31:39.610 --> 31:40.610]  Yeah, and I'll say it again.
[31:41.010 --> 31:41.650]  There you go.
[31:41.990 --> 31:42.290]  All right.
[31:42.370 --> 31:43.110]  That was good to go.
[31:43.310 --> 31:45.010]  I think it's, it's, uh, wow.
[31:45.010 --> 31:47.670]  One of the 50s to 100 in this collision.
[31:47.950 --> 31:48.070]  Yeah.
[31:48.370 --> 32:00.510]  Uh, by the way, uh, there are some people massing outside the radio station here, which is right on the main thoroughfare of the camp, and, uh, you're welcome to stand out there in, in the rain, uh, and, and watch us, if, if you wish, and wave, like, if you're on the Today Show or something like that.
[32:00.990 --> 32:11.170]  That's, uh, yeah, that's, it's, it's coming down pretty good, uh, but we're sending, we're sending our reporters out there, maybe they'll talk to you, but, uh, uh, by all means, come by and say hi, and, uh, we'll be happy to see you.
[32:11.170 --> 32:15.590]  But it's, it's been great seeing people throughout the, uh, throughout the last couple of days.
[32:15.610 --> 32:20.510]  I got here one day before it opened, and, uh, today was the first day, and this thing goes until Sunday.
[32:20.630 --> 32:22.330]  And, of course, it's teardown after that as well.
[32:22.810 --> 32:25.210]  Uh, so it's, uh, it's all, it's all really fascinating.
[32:25.490 --> 32:26.630]  And what are you pointing at, Bernie?
[32:27.110 --> 32:28.450]  We have Dan Kaminsky here, isn't it?
[32:28.590 --> 32:29.010]  Dan Kaminsky?
[32:29.250 --> 32:29.830]  Oh, my God, look at that.
[32:29.990 --> 32:30.550]  Where'd he come from?
[32:30.870 --> 32:32.070]  Dan Kaminsky.
[32:32.330 --> 32:34.970]  Why don't you sit in a chair where there's, yeah, a microphone.
[32:35.170 --> 32:36.710]  It suddenly materialized out of nowhere.
[32:37.090 --> 32:40.530]  Uh, there's all kinds of luminaries here, and, uh, and you're certainly one of them.
[32:40.530 --> 32:43.610]  Um, that chair seems to make the most noise of any chair in the room.
[32:43.770 --> 32:44.570]  So, uh, yes.
[32:45.150 --> 32:47.730]  Um, tell us, uh, this is not your first camp, is it?
[32:47.890 --> 32:49.710]  Oh, no, this is my second camp.
[32:49.710 --> 32:51.150]  I came here four years ago.
[32:51.350 --> 32:58.350]  It was, uh, quite possibly the greatest, uh, security con, art event, technology event that I've ever been to.
[32:58.590 --> 33:05.910]  So, uh, you know, just got back from Black Hat and DEF CON in Las Vegas, and, uh, I was a week in Vegas, and it's pretty hard to do.
[33:06.130 --> 33:10.050]  I don't think there's anything else I would have, uh, gotten on a plane for besides camp.
[33:10.050 --> 33:14.590]  I mean, I went to my first DEF CON in 11 years, uh, over the past, uh, weekend.
[33:14.790 --> 33:16.430]  I've been flying all kinds of planes all over the place.
[33:16.570 --> 33:20.170]  And, wow, it just, uh, you know, I didn't even recognize it.
[33:20.290 --> 33:23.070]  It's 15,000 people show up to these things now in Las Vegas.
[33:23.270 --> 33:27.230]  It's, it's, I mean, I remember Summer CON where 75 people showed up.
[33:27.970 --> 33:30.090]  What, what's the smallest hacker conference you've been to?
[33:30.430 --> 33:38.050]  Oh, well, I always go to tour CON every year, and that's, you know, a couple hundred people out in San Diego, and it's run by, uh, Dave Holton, better known as Akari.
[33:38.630 --> 33:44.790]  And, uh, it is just always just the, the small shrew, uh, everybody hangs out with everybody.
[33:44.790 --> 33:49.570]  There's no distance between, uh, hackers and speakers and anything like that kind of event.
[33:49.570 --> 33:53.910]  But, uh, I, uh, DEF CON, for my feelings, is back.
[33:54.150 --> 34:02.890]  It's, uh, very much a experience of lots of people, very curious, very, you know, a lot of new blood, um, doing interesting things.
[34:03.130 --> 34:05.450]  And even 10-year-olds are doing interesting things now.
[34:05.470 --> 34:10.870]  Yeah, it's just, I can imagine if 10,000 or 15,000 people tried to show up here or at Hope or something like that.
[34:10.950 --> 34:16.550]  It just, it kind of scares me that there's that much enthusiasm that, uh, it could unleash itself in such a way.
[34:16.670 --> 34:21.330]  Well, I mean, the big deal is that, uh, you know, we're, you know, we're out there now.
[34:21.530 --> 34:26.390]  Um, you know, hacking has no, has so far beyond anything that can be ignored now.
[34:26.690 --> 34:33.210]  Um, I think we will look back in a few years and look at the, uh, PlayStation network outage as the thing changed everything.
[34:33.590 --> 34:33.750]  Uh huh.
[34:33.830 --> 34:35.230]  You know, even something like WikiLeaks.
[34:35.330 --> 34:36.490]  Yeah, that affected government.
[34:36.870 --> 34:46.390]  Okay, the PlayStation network outage, it's like an entire generation getting grounded and having their toys taken away and put in a closet for a month.
[34:46.550 --> 34:46.950]  Uh huh.
[34:47.070 --> 34:48.270]  Like, oh my God.
[34:48.690 --> 34:55.650]  And you turn around and you look at, uh, Black Hat and DEF CON and the amount of press that was not technical press, that is not security press.
[34:55.810 --> 35:01.730]  It is just like, you know, and, you know, random reporters on normal things are showing up.
[35:01.730 --> 35:04.850]  Like, so, so is this where like anonymous hangs out?
[35:05.510 --> 35:05.950]  No.
[35:06.370 --> 35:07.090]  Oh no.
[35:08.430 --> 35:11.610]  There are rumors that anonymous is here, but I don't know if they're true.
[35:12.070 --> 35:13.070]  There are rumors that they're everywhere.
[35:13.410 --> 35:13.850]  Exactly.
[35:14.150 --> 35:22.150]  You know, as I hear the sound of the rain coming down on our, our tent, I feel sad that Kyle and Nick Farr are out there somewhere walking around.
[35:22.350 --> 35:24.090]  Guys, are you, can you hear us?
[35:26.010 --> 35:27.370]  No, they can't hear us.
[35:27.790 --> 35:28.370]  We'll find them.
[35:28.450 --> 35:29.210]  Yeah, please find them.
[35:29.370 --> 35:30.110]  Let's see if you're okay.
[35:30.470 --> 35:31.550]  We're sending out a scout.
[35:31.630 --> 35:32.710]  They might have been set upon by the crowd.
[35:32.730 --> 35:33.430]  Rescue party.
[35:33.430 --> 35:33.830]  Yeah.
[35:34.470 --> 35:34.750]  All right.
[35:35.030 --> 35:35.870]  We're on that.
[35:36.190 --> 35:36.850]  That's cool.
[35:37.290 --> 35:37.710]  Bade.
[35:38.070 --> 35:38.490]  Bade.
[35:38.950 --> 35:40.630]  New York, any questions from you?
[35:41.590 --> 35:42.630]  I think we're doing all right.
[35:42.730 --> 35:43.050]  You...
[35:43.050 --> 35:43.510]  Yes, Walter.
[35:43.910 --> 35:48.170]  Can you tell us about the OpenLeaks panel that was at CCC?
[35:49.010 --> 35:49.810]  Ah, OpenLeaks.
[35:49.910 --> 35:50.150]  Yes.
[35:50.770 --> 35:51.490]  Oh, let's see.
[35:51.590 --> 35:52.650]  Who was at OpenLeaks?
[35:53.050 --> 35:53.390]  Nobody?
[35:53.590 --> 35:54.390]  Oh, I was at OpenLeaks.
[35:54.410 --> 35:54.750]  I was there.
[35:54.850 --> 35:55.850]  Jim, you were there with me.
[35:56.150 --> 36:01.790]  And we saw the head of OpenLeaks, Daniel...
[36:01.790 --> 36:02.290]  Last night.
[36:02.390 --> 36:03.270]  I always forget his last name.
[36:03.550 --> 36:03.770]  Do you remember?
[36:04.610 --> 36:05.170]  Let's go, Mark.
[36:05.270 --> 36:05.790]  Did we introduce you?
[36:06.530 --> 36:07.170]  You did.
[36:07.350 --> 36:07.610]  I did.
[36:07.730 --> 36:09.650]  Okay, you haven't said much, so I forgot if we introduced you.
[36:09.690 --> 36:10.490]  I threw in a few one-liners.
[36:11.370 --> 36:11.730]  Yeah.
[36:12.610 --> 36:13.730]  Yeah, so the...
[36:13.730 --> 36:14.330]  What are you pointing at?
[36:14.430 --> 36:18.610]  Back to the OpenLeaks panel, which I was busy preparing my thing.
[36:19.230 --> 36:19.590]  So...
[36:19.590 --> 36:20.950]  But Junes was there.
[36:21.330 --> 36:21.790]  Uh-huh.
[36:22.530 --> 36:23.710]  Bernie, you keep pointing at something.
[36:23.830 --> 36:24.550]  I don't know what you're pointing at.
[36:24.830 --> 36:25.190]  Daniel...
[36:25.190 --> 36:26.070]  What was Daniel's last name?
[36:26.770 --> 36:27.130]  Daniel...
[36:27.130 --> 36:27.730]  Domscheidberg.
[36:28.730 --> 36:29.630]  Who said that?
[36:29.690 --> 36:30.110]  Say that again.
[36:31.210 --> 36:31.570]  Domscheidberg.
[36:31.790 --> 36:32.130]  The whole thing.
[36:32.310 --> 36:32.650]  The whole name.
[36:33.790 --> 36:34.510]  Daniel Domscheidberg.
[36:34.790 --> 36:35.610]  That's the name should be said.
[36:35.710 --> 36:36.690]  Why can't we do that?
[36:36.970 --> 36:38.270]  Why can't we say names like that?
[36:38.370 --> 36:38.650]  Thank you.
[36:38.810 --> 36:40.370]  Only in Austria can say it like that.
[36:40.550 --> 36:40.790]  Yes.
[36:41.710 --> 36:46.790]  Daniel gave a compelling talk about alternatives to WikiLeaks.
[36:47.670 --> 36:48.270]  He was good.
[36:48.470 --> 36:51.570]  I mean, he didn't even use the W word until maybe 40 minutes into the talk.
[36:52.590 --> 36:59.290]  And basically, he responded to a lot of challenging questions, including one from Jacob Applebaum from WikiLeaks.
[36:59.630 --> 37:05.350]  And basically, I think, stood up to the crowd very well and won their respect.
[37:05.350 --> 37:10.310]  There were some very good questions, considering he's not using open source software.
[37:11.190 --> 37:14.370]  And it's not that he wasn't using open source software.
[37:14.550 --> 37:18.990]  It's just that the service they have, I think, is not free and open.
[37:18.990 --> 37:23.210]  And so, I mean, probably in there, using open source stuff to set it up.
[37:23.310 --> 37:24.670]  But basically, they're not...
[37:24.670 --> 37:26.050]  Junete is waving his hand.
[37:26.190 --> 37:28.470]  Well, the other part of it is that they're still working.
[37:28.650 --> 37:31.450]  I mean, they're not very far ahead in what they're trying to do.
[37:31.590 --> 37:32.990]  And, you know, it takes time to...
[37:33.750 --> 37:40.120]  But essentially, what he was talking about was that they were partnering with different, you know, press organizations and different groups to...
[37:40.730 --> 37:43.150]  Essentially, they're not going to be like WikiLeaks.
[37:43.290 --> 37:46.950]  WikiLeaks kind of gets the leaks and processes them and then releases them if they see fit.
[37:46.950 --> 37:58.290]  And instead, OpenLeaks is more supposed to be the way that, you know, the trusted place where people can send their leaks and then they'll be passed on to other groups, according to whatever those groups and means are.
[37:58.350 --> 37:59.170]  So, it's a little different.
[37:59.350 --> 38:02.650]  It's not, you know, it's not a self-contained kind of organization that does all the work there.
[38:02.810 --> 38:06.170]  They're just the drop box, if you will, but more advanced.
[38:06.290 --> 38:08.050]  But it still hasn't actually done anything yet.
[38:08.190 --> 38:09.050]  It's not online yet.
[38:09.210 --> 38:10.270]  It's online for the camp.
[38:10.570 --> 38:10.950]  Camp, yeah.
[38:10.950 --> 38:13.390]  They've asked for the people here to work on it.
[38:14.450 --> 38:14.630]  Hello?
[38:15.030 --> 38:16.110]  Well, who's talking?
[38:16.670 --> 38:18.290]  Is that our Reverend reporters out there?
[38:18.350 --> 38:19.390]  Yeah, I found them.
[38:19.570 --> 38:20.210]  Oh, where are they?
[38:20.410 --> 38:20.970]  Hang on.
[38:21.070 --> 38:22.790]  I will give Nick to you now.
[38:22.950 --> 38:23.470]  One second.
[38:23.910 --> 38:24.270]  Nick?
[38:25.130 --> 38:26.050]  Can you hear us?
[38:28.010 --> 38:28.370]  Anybody?
[38:28.710 --> 38:29.290]  Can you hear us?
[38:29.330 --> 38:30.030]  Kyle, are you out there?
[38:30.690 --> 38:31.850]  There's like some music out here.
[38:32.030 --> 38:32.930]  Well, they're obviously someplace.
[38:33.370 --> 38:34.350]  Any guys friends at all?
[38:35.710 --> 38:37.350]  There seems to be some confusion out there.
[38:37.570 --> 38:38.330]  I can't hear us.
[38:38.490 --> 38:39.570]  You can't hear them very much.
[38:39.770 --> 38:41.590]  It sounds like people are arguing over the price or something.
[38:41.590 --> 38:44.250]  They're figuring out how to put the headphones on, I guess.
[38:44.390 --> 38:44.450]  Okay.
[38:44.590 --> 38:45.750]  Well, let's hope to figure that out.
[38:45.750 --> 38:46.470]  We'll get back to them.
[38:47.110 --> 38:47.730]  It's burning.
[38:47.930 --> 38:49.730]  Back to the Open Leaks talk.
[38:51.370 --> 38:57.770]  Daniel wanted to be on the show tonight, but this is the launch party for Open Leaks tonight, which we attended.
[38:58.030 --> 39:04.810]  And he was busy negotiating some work with some hackers on development programs there.
[39:04.810 --> 39:08.550]  So he could be on, but he hopes to be on the show in the very near future.
[39:08.810 --> 39:08.950]  Okay.
[39:09.030 --> 39:10.850]  So we'll definitely have a good conversation with him.
[39:11.030 --> 39:12.770]  It's a bit hectic tonight, so I could...
[39:12.770 --> 39:13.870]  It's probably all for the best.
[39:13.870 --> 39:16.530]  We like to ask him a lot more questions about various things.
[39:17.430 --> 39:19.350]  But that's just one of the neat talks.
[39:19.450 --> 39:20.210]  Five-day talks.
[39:20.450 --> 39:21.290]  One day is done.
[39:21.430 --> 39:22.090]  Four days to go.
[39:22.510 --> 39:22.830]  Okay.
[39:22.870 --> 39:24.270]  Are our reporting reporters out there?
[39:24.630 --> 39:26.970]  Yes, we are outside right now.
[39:27.370 --> 39:27.890]  Oh, wow.
[39:27.910 --> 39:31.770]  There's an excellent blinking lights installation happening in the rain right now.
[39:31.770 --> 39:34.550]  And we're actually headed over towards the Maple Lab tent.
[39:34.950 --> 39:38.990]  We're definitely going to find some interesting things going on there.
[39:39.110 --> 39:40.350]  And we'll be able to interrupt something.
[39:40.490 --> 39:42.190]  Ooh, looks like we've got a meeting going on.
[39:42.430 --> 39:45.330]  Hey, Nick, about how far away are you from the studio tent?
[39:45.570 --> 39:49.550]  I'd say we're about 45 meters away from the radio tent.
[39:49.670 --> 39:51.310]  You're starting to break up a little bit so we can hear you.
[39:51.310 --> 39:55.890]  I'm walking in here randomly, and I'm going to find one person here and say...
[39:56.610 --> 39:57.290]  Excuse me, sir.
[39:57.350 --> 39:58.170]  Can I interrupt you for a moment?
[39:58.270 --> 39:58.450]  Okay.
[39:59.510 --> 40:01.130]  You obviously can't hear us very well.
[40:04.150 --> 40:04.950]  There we go.
[40:05.070 --> 40:06.950]  He was engulfed in the 24-hour breakfast.
[40:07.450 --> 40:08.250]  Okay, he's still there.
[40:08.390 --> 40:08.830]  He's still there.
[40:09.150 --> 40:10.230]  Nick, can you hear us?
[40:11.290 --> 40:16.030]  Do you believe that hackers can go into space in the next 23...
[40:16.030 --> 40:17.450]  Of course they can.
[40:17.670 --> 40:18.410]  People actually do.
[40:18.510 --> 40:21.610]  I was just showing a project called Copenhagen Suborbitals.
[40:21.790 --> 40:26.770]  Some guys from Denmark who did a successful launch on the 3rd of June this year.
[40:26.770 --> 40:29.670]  And they are actually building a rocket.
[40:29.870 --> 40:30.670]  They built a rocket.
[40:31.190 --> 40:32.030]  Test flight it.
[40:32.490 --> 40:33.070]  And...
[40:33.870 --> 40:34.450]  Well...
[40:34.450 --> 40:36.670]  So it's not like utopia.
[40:36.950 --> 40:38.070]  It's happening right now.
[40:39.390 --> 40:41.530]  See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
[40:41.650 --> 40:42.350]  What about you?
[40:42.350 --> 40:44.590]  Do you think that a hackerspace program is possible?
[40:45.970 --> 40:47.190]  Not in the next 20 years.
[40:47.250 --> 40:47.830]  I don't think so.
[40:49.470 --> 40:52.510]  You don't think that we'll be able to land a hacker on the moon in the next 23 years?
[40:52.510 --> 40:53.770]  No, I don't think so.
[40:54.170 --> 40:54.650]  Hey, Rob.
[40:54.750 --> 40:55.390]  Nick, Nick.
[40:55.750 --> 40:57.570]  I really have a really important question.
[40:57.830 --> 41:01.130]  Not concerning the space program, but you're at the Meta Lab.
[41:01.330 --> 41:03.610]  And I've heard they built a pancake machine.
[41:05.590 --> 41:07.270]  Can you see if it's working?
[41:07.370 --> 41:08.010]  It's a machine right here.
[41:08.090 --> 41:09.350]  It looks really interesting.
[41:09.550 --> 41:10.410]  What does this do?
[41:10.590 --> 41:11.770]  It looks like a turntable.
[41:13.190 --> 41:14.390]  Something for construction.
[41:14.790 --> 41:15.810]  Does anybody know what it does?
[41:16.270 --> 41:19.730]  As far as I know, it's an automatic grab robot.
[41:19.730 --> 41:20.970]  It makes crats.
[41:21.310 --> 41:21.650]  Crats.
[41:21.970 --> 41:22.370]  Crats.
[41:22.750 --> 41:23.370]  Not crats.
[41:23.650 --> 41:24.010]  Crats.
[41:27.250 --> 41:28.750]  Actually, we prefer to say crates.
[41:28.790 --> 41:30.090]  We want to be really safe.
[41:30.330 --> 41:30.530]  All right.
[41:31.210 --> 41:31.510]  Yeah.
[41:32.930 --> 41:34.930]  Can you put crats in it?
[41:35.230 --> 41:35.530]  Science.
[41:37.630 --> 41:38.030]  Okay.
[41:38.410 --> 41:39.830]  Well, maybe you should move on to another...
[41:40.310 --> 41:42.010]  So you're at the Austrian space now.
[41:42.090 --> 41:43.490]  But there's somebody from Denmark there, I believe.
[41:43.670 --> 41:44.870]  Yes, we're at the Austrian space.
[41:44.910 --> 41:46.270]  And they've got all kinds of people.
[41:46.310 --> 41:47.330]  People tend to mix it up.
[41:47.430 --> 41:48.070]  You know, that's the point.
[41:48.070 --> 41:48.950]  You have different villages.
[41:49.210 --> 41:51.170]  And you go to one that interests you.
[41:51.250 --> 41:52.210]  Maybe they have a cool project.
[41:52.430 --> 41:54.090]  Maybe they've got some gizmos.
[41:54.350 --> 41:57.870]  Right now, there's people outside in a van.
[41:58.030 --> 42:07.010]  And what they've been doing all night is using software and a projector to project the outline of an image of this helicopter that's in front of them.
[42:07.070 --> 42:10.210]  And they're putting a video image on the side of it.
[42:10.250 --> 42:11.510]  And it's taking the shape.
[42:11.630 --> 42:12.230]  And they're animating it.
[42:12.390 --> 42:12.650]  It's beautiful.
[42:12.690 --> 42:14.270]  And it goes right along with the installation.
[42:15.130 --> 42:20.010]  And we're going to actually pass the lecture halls now, which are all very well-decorated.
[42:20.510 --> 42:30.350]  And of course, we have the heart of gold in the center of it all, the CCC's iconic spaceship, which is very representative of the theme for this year's camp.
[42:30.670 --> 42:31.870]  And it's just amazing.
[42:32.010 --> 42:32.630]  Everything's lit.
[42:33.110 --> 42:38.530]  There's passes down the runways and coffee, places you can get a snack.
[42:38.530 --> 42:40.630]  In the middle of the rain, with all this light...
[42:40.630 --> 42:42.010]  Can you see any drunk hackers?
[42:42.290 --> 42:43.850]  I'm very interested in drunk hackers.
[42:44.850 --> 42:45.250]  Okay.
[42:45.270 --> 42:47.190]  Well, we'll do our best to find some drunk hackers.
[42:47.550 --> 42:47.970]  Yeah, please.
[42:49.470 --> 42:49.770]  All right.
[42:50.470 --> 42:52.430]  Yeah, you guys are having some reception problems.
[42:52.650 --> 42:54.710]  I'm not exactly sure if there's anything you could be doing differently.
[42:55.010 --> 42:56.430]  The barista here...
[42:56.430 --> 42:56.670]  Nope.
[42:56.710 --> 42:57.330]  No interview.
[42:57.930 --> 42:58.330]  Okay.
[42:58.610 --> 42:58.690]  Yeah.
[42:58.790 --> 43:05.470]  I don't know if you guys can hear, but if you're shaking the mic or something like that, try to avoid...
[43:06.110 --> 43:06.510]  Yeah.
[43:07.530 --> 43:07.930]  So...
[43:07.930 --> 43:08.530]  Okay.
[43:08.650 --> 43:09.490]  Are they still with us?
[43:10.770 --> 43:11.170]  No.
[43:11.250 --> 43:11.910]  I'm hearing music.
[43:12.530 --> 43:13.990]  They're somewhere where they're...
[43:13.990 --> 43:14.590]  We hear you.
[43:14.590 --> 43:20.770]  We hear you, but try not to move the microphone too much, and maybe there won't be so much interference.
[43:21.710 --> 43:22.990]  It's hard out here now.
[43:25.770 --> 43:26.170]  Okay.
[43:26.430 --> 43:27.630]  That's not good at all.
[43:28.310 --> 43:28.710]  Maybe...
[43:28.710 --> 43:29.490]  Maybe too far away.
[43:29.610 --> 43:32.190]  We could move that closer to the door or something, the actual...
[43:32.190 --> 43:32.430]  No?
[43:32.550 --> 43:33.090]  We can't see that?
[43:33.550 --> 43:33.990]  All right.
[43:34.430 --> 43:36.550]  Could you guys move a little closer to where we are?
[43:36.670 --> 43:38.030]  Maybe it'll get better that way.
[43:38.130 --> 43:38.470]  Maybe...
[43:38.470 --> 43:40.990]  Maybe Nick Farr is already on the moon, it sounds like.
[43:41.230 --> 43:41.690]  It does.
[43:42.130 --> 43:42.510]  It does.
[43:42.770 --> 43:43.770]  Easton might have a problem.
[43:43.890 --> 43:45.830]  New York, any questions from you?
[43:48.750 --> 43:49.550]  We're doing okay.
[43:49.550 --> 43:49.630]  Okay.
[43:49.970 --> 43:52.110]  So, how else was Defcon?
[43:52.290 --> 43:53.990]  What went on there around you guys?
[43:54.590 --> 43:59.010]  Well, for me, it was basically just selling the hacker calendar because I was in the vendor area.
[43:59.130 --> 44:02.210]  I didn't really get to walk around during sessions too much.
[44:02.250 --> 44:13.990]  But I did meet an awful lot of people, and boy, I gotta say, there are so many listeners to our radio show that came up and said, hey, we're fans of Off the Hook, we listen all the time, and it was just great meeting all those people.
[44:13.990 --> 44:15.010]  So, a very special hi.
[44:15.190 --> 44:22.050]  If you walked up to our vendor table at Defcon last weekend, it's great to meet our listeners.
[44:22.230 --> 44:26.210]  It's great to always see who they are and what they're into and things like that.
[44:27.370 --> 44:38.050]  And basically, it's an amazing combination of all kinds of ideas and knowledge and things like that.
[44:38.150 --> 44:42.510]  And Dan, you probably saw a lot more, you probably participated a lot more in the actual sessions.
[44:42.510 --> 44:44.110]  Any highlights that come to mind?
[44:44.490 --> 44:50.390]  You know, the biggest highlight for Defcon for me, in fact, like one of the big metrics I consider in terms of what makes...
[44:53.220 --> 44:54.260]  Have we lost you guys?
[44:57.500 --> 44:58.800]  They're probably still talking too.
[44:59.160 --> 45:01.160]  It sounds like we may have lost Germany.
[45:02.940 --> 45:03.820]  How are things here?
[45:06.400 --> 45:07.120]  Warmer, unfortunately.
[45:07.460 --> 45:08.560]  Do we wait for them to call back?
[45:09.680 --> 45:10.420]  Hopefully they will.
[45:10.660 --> 45:11.600]  See if they call back.
[45:11.680 --> 45:13.420]  Do we have their number actually?
[45:13.560 --> 45:14.940]  We don't have theirs, they have ours.
[45:14.940 --> 45:21.320]  Well, at least they won't be talking for more than 10 minutes because that's about all the time we'll have left in the show.
[45:21.660 --> 45:25.720]  Well, if one of you guys can send them a text message, they can still receive texts.
[45:26.340 --> 45:28.240]  And they might not know they're not on the air anymore.
[45:28.820 --> 45:31.740]  But in any case, there are a couple of things we can talk about here.
[45:32.420 --> 45:33.680]  We did get a couple of...
[45:33.680 --> 45:38.140]  I want to thank everybody over the past number of weeks who helped us out with our fundraiser.
[45:39.060 --> 45:44.620]  That's always, you know, that regularly happens and we always get our awesome audience helping us out with it.
[45:44.760 --> 45:50.920]  We always get emails every week asking us after the fact if they can donate to us and get our premiums.
[45:51.060 --> 45:53.300]  And I'm afraid the answer is no, we can't give you premiums.
[45:53.380 --> 45:55.100]  They're only during the hour we're broadcasting live.
[45:55.580 --> 45:58.580]  But you can, if you want to still support our show and our station.
[45:59.200 --> 46:00.000]  You can...
[46:00.000 --> 46:01.440]  Ooh, let me see if this is the...
[46:01.440 --> 46:02.000]  We have blinking light.
[46:02.000 --> 46:02.660]  We have a...
[46:02.660 --> 46:03.180]  Yes.
[46:05.160 --> 46:05.860]  This is the studio.
[46:06.020 --> 46:06.700]  Do we get you guys back?
[46:07.740 --> 46:08.060]  Yeah.
[46:08.460 --> 46:08.500]  Hey.
[46:09.700 --> 46:10.300]  Hello again.
[46:11.160 --> 46:11.320]  Okay.
[46:11.480 --> 46:18.400]  To finish up what I was saying while you were gone, you can always support our show if you go on wbai.org.
[46:18.400 --> 46:20.680]  There's a function there to donate to your favorite show.
[46:20.940 --> 46:23.980]  If you select Off the Hook as your favorite show on there, you will be supporting our show.
[46:24.060 --> 46:27.860]  We can't give you our premiums, but you can do that anytime even when it's not a fundraiser.
[46:27.860 --> 46:29.180]  So, welcome back, you guys.
[46:30.280 --> 46:30.500]  Boy.
[46:30.800 --> 46:32.160]  Yeah, well, this is something unexpected.
[46:32.500 --> 46:34.360]  I mean, we're just sitting around all of a sudden all the lights went...
[46:34.360 --> 46:34.480]  Why?
[46:34.760 --> 46:36.740]  It looks like only our tent all the lights went out.
[46:37.380 --> 46:38.260]  What's up with that?
[46:38.720 --> 46:39.080]  It's raining!
[46:39.320 --> 46:39.940]  It's raining.
[46:40.220 --> 46:40.820]  We have no lights.
[46:40.940 --> 46:41.560]  We have no phones.
[46:41.720 --> 46:42.300]  We have no internet.
[46:42.560 --> 46:45.680]  So, unfortunately, that's how it is right now.
[46:45.760 --> 46:46.720]  Oh, the lights came back on.
[46:48.720 --> 46:49.300]  All right.
[46:49.380 --> 46:50.920]  Red Hat has this giant...
[46:51.460 --> 46:52.040]  Hang on.
[46:52.500 --> 46:54.280]  So, you know, you've proven that now.
[46:54.900 --> 47:02.580]  So, I guess what we're going to do is just finish off the show by passing the phone to the people who have something to say.
[47:02.580 --> 47:04.540]  You just have a phone on the wireless network.
[47:04.540 --> 47:05.300]  Not even on the...
[47:05.300 --> 47:06.580]  Well, it's not a real phone.
[47:06.640 --> 47:07.340]  We're talking on it.
[47:07.340 --> 47:07.960]  Yeah, but I don't know why.
[47:08.180 --> 47:09.680]  It's Skype on the wireless network here.
[47:09.820 --> 47:11.100]  We're talking on Skype on the wireless...
[47:11.100 --> 47:11.580]  Well, so what?
[47:11.660 --> 47:12.180]  People can hear you.
[47:12.280 --> 47:12.860]  You can hear us, right?
[47:13.080 --> 47:13.800]  We can hear you.
[47:14.620 --> 47:15.040]  All right.
[47:15.040 --> 47:16.220]  This is...
[47:16.220 --> 47:17.840]  This is not a conversation.
[47:17.980 --> 47:18.400]  It's a real conversation.
[47:18.560 --> 47:19.420]  I'm going to hand it on.
[47:19.940 --> 47:23.180]  Who is describing some of the highlights that...
[47:25.120 --> 47:25.600]  Government...
[47:29.850 --> 47:30.950]  Did we lose you again?
[47:32.870 --> 47:33.350]  Well...
[47:33.350 --> 47:33.910]  Ah, there you are.
[47:34.590 --> 47:35.010]  Sort of.
[47:35.450 --> 47:35.690]  Okay.
[47:35.690 --> 47:36.690]  I guess...
[47:37.790 --> 47:38.710]  So what...
[47:38.710 --> 47:41.150]  My metric for...
[47:41.150 --> 47:41.570]  For...
[47:41.570 --> 47:42.270]  Uh...
[47:42.270 --> 47:44.610]  Reading what makes the show is...
[47:45.350 --> 47:45.810]  Um...
[47:45.810 --> 47:46.840]  How many people...
[47:47.830 --> 47:48.290]  Okay.
[47:48.390 --> 47:48.570]  You're...
[47:48.570 --> 47:49.430]  You're breaking up terribly.
[47:49.590 --> 47:50.810]  We can only hear, like, every third word.
[47:51.270 --> 47:51.550]  Okay.
[47:51.550 --> 47:53.010]  So unless you're speaking in code, it's not very good.
[47:55.860 --> 47:56.200]  Okay.
[47:56.920 --> 47:57.200]  Yeah.
[47:57.820 --> 47:58.060]  No.
[47:58.380 --> 47:58.740]  Okay.
[48:00.420 --> 48:00.880]  So...
[48:03.210 --> 48:03.750]  All right.
[48:03.870 --> 48:06.230]  I have to officially say, now they sound worse than when...
[48:06.230 --> 48:07.530]  Bernie calls from Philly.
[48:07.530 --> 48:07.910]  Yeah.
[48:07.990 --> 48:08.710]  Now we're missing Philly.
[48:09.690 --> 48:10.430]  There's my name.
[48:10.910 --> 48:11.910]  I don't know...
[48:11.910 --> 48:12.570]  Where's the...
[48:12.570 --> 48:13.570]  Bernie is calling?
[48:15.410 --> 48:15.950]  Yeah.
[48:16.050 --> 48:16.710]  He's been done long.
[48:18.770 --> 48:19.090]  Uh...
[48:19.090 --> 48:20.530]  Should I stand...
[48:22.330 --> 48:26.850]  I think it might be improving a little bit.
[48:27.050 --> 48:27.330]  Do you think?
[48:29.330 --> 48:29.830]  No.
[48:30.250 --> 48:31.250]  There you go again.
[48:31.650 --> 48:31.730]  Yeah.
[48:32.810 --> 48:33.930]  Even country B...
[48:33.930 --> 48:35.990]  Country 99.5 is better than this.
[48:37.170 --> 48:37.610]  No.
[48:37.890 --> 48:37.970]  No.
[48:38.090 --> 48:38.590]  Don't say that.
[48:39.150 --> 48:39.950]  I'm not for it.
[48:40.590 --> 48:41.030]  Like...
[48:42.470 --> 48:44.570]  So this week on off the phone...
[48:44.570 --> 48:44.810]  Okay.
[48:47.830 --> 48:48.750]  Have we still got you?
[48:52.320 --> 48:53.540]  Have them call us back.
[48:53.960 --> 48:54.200]  Yeah.
[48:54.280 --> 48:57.160]  I think if you guys could, uh, could attempt to maybe reconnect to us.
[48:57.760 --> 48:58.080]  No.
[48:58.480 --> 48:58.600]  No.
[48:59.040 --> 48:59.060]  No.
[48:59.060 --> 48:59.280]  No.
[48:59.980 --> 49:00.300]  No.
[49:02.480 --> 49:03.760]  I don't think they know.
[49:04.000 --> 49:06.620]  You know, later we can form all these words together and see what they're saying.
[49:06.880 --> 49:08.700]  There might be a hidden message in it of some sort.
[49:08.860 --> 49:12.020]  Maybe if we play backwards at, um...
[49:12.020 --> 49:13.720]  1.5 speed, you know.
[49:13.780 --> 49:14.560]  Through a Tesla coil.
[49:16.220 --> 49:16.620]  Uh...
[49:16.620 --> 49:17.040]  Yes.
[49:17.320 --> 49:17.700]  There we go.
[49:17.740 --> 49:18.240]  There they...
[49:18.240 --> 49:19.240]  And they're off the line again.
[49:20.320 --> 49:20.720]  Yes.
[49:20.840 --> 49:24.920]  For all those listening, this is an example of, you know, international phone calls.
[49:25.060 --> 49:25.220]  Yep.
[49:25.320 --> 49:25.900]  This might be them again.
[49:26.040 --> 49:26.240]  Ooh.
[49:27.520 --> 49:27.860]  Studio.
[49:34.310 --> 49:36.530]  We've got some awesome echoing noise going on.
[49:41.270 --> 49:41.670]  Yeah.
[49:41.670 --> 49:41.750]  Yeah.
[49:44.750 --> 49:47.310]  Does this work or does this not work?
[49:47.470 --> 49:49.190]  This is working the same as before.
[49:50.090 --> 49:51.070]  Not working at all.
[49:51.250 --> 49:51.930]  As in not at all.
[49:59.180 --> 50:00.040]  And they've gone again.
[50:02.720 --> 50:03.080]  There we go.
[50:03.080 --> 50:04.580]  But in any case...
[50:04.580 --> 50:06.880]  So, uh, what else is going on here in New York?
[50:07.040 --> 50:10.200]  Absolutely nothing has happened in the past months since we had our fundraiser.
[50:10.300 --> 50:10.860]  Yeah, let's try them again.
[50:10.940 --> 50:11.320]  We have nothing to talk about.
[50:11.640 --> 50:12.540]  Absolutely nothing.
[50:12.760 --> 50:13.860]  There are no protests.
[50:14.100 --> 50:14.920]  There are no...
[50:16.000 --> 50:16.720]  Technology news.
[50:16.780 --> 50:17.940]  No arrests or research.
[50:18.720 --> 50:19.240]  Hello again.
[50:19.260 --> 50:19.760]  Are you back?
[50:20.520 --> 50:21.520]  Uh, yes, we're back.
[50:21.680 --> 50:22.220]  Oh, we can hear you.
[50:22.220 --> 50:25.760]  We have many competing people trying to call you, which, which is a terrible idea.
[50:26.520 --> 50:29.380]  Um, but I'm going to give this phone back to Dan.
[50:32.930 --> 50:33.290]  Hello.
[50:33.530 --> 50:34.050]  Can you hear me?
[50:34.290 --> 50:35.130]  Yes, we can hear you.
[50:35.930 --> 50:36.990]  Can you hear me well?
[50:37.390 --> 50:38.410]  Yes, we can hear you well.
[50:39.290 --> 50:39.910]  All right.
[50:40.070 --> 50:42.070]  I'll try to answer the question then.
[50:42.910 --> 50:43.270]  Okay.
[50:43.270 --> 50:52.350]  So for me, what makes the conference special is not necessarily what's going on in the sessions or on the panel, certainly not in the press.
[50:52.890 --> 50:55.530]  It's what happens at the bar.
[50:55.550 --> 50:57.210]  It's what happens at a party.
[50:57.210 --> 51:00.970]  It's what happens when someone walks up and says, I've got an idea.
[51:01.190 --> 51:02.890]  And, and what do you think?
[51:03.130 --> 51:11.650]  And it's just the genuine experience of one hacker talking to another saying, you know, this is a trick.
[51:11.870 --> 51:12.990]  This is something unexpected.
[51:13.470 --> 51:14.510]  Is it new?
[51:14.670 --> 51:15.310]  Is it novel?
[51:15.510 --> 51:16.310]  Is it going to work?
[51:16.550 --> 51:22.690]  And it is a moment of, of, of great vulnerability and great creativity.
[51:22.990 --> 51:32.470]  And I get to say this DEF CON more than any DEF CON in the last four years, I've seen just more people really exchanging ideas.
[51:33.470 --> 51:54.150]  Um, the recent, the recent hacks have been, you know, in some ways problematic, but man, they brought so many people in and they've gotten so many people who I've known for years excited again, really thinking about, wow, there's, there's a lot more things we can do on the offensive side,
[51:54.430 --> 52:00.350]  on the defensive side, and just on the neutral, let's just see what technology can do side.
[52:00.690 --> 52:06.150]  And so, from that point of view, I see this particular DEF CON as an incredible success.
[52:06.890 --> 52:09.710]  And, um, you know, I, I look forward to next year.
[52:11.330 --> 52:11.730]  Awesome.
[52:11.870 --> 52:13.530]  That is, uh, that is in the end what it's all about.
[52:13.730 --> 52:21.210]  It's, um, the stuff that's actually at conventions and conferences is, uh, awesome, but it's the connections that outlast them that, uh, that I think are the really important things.
[52:21.950 --> 52:22.390]  Yeah.
[52:22.690 --> 52:30.070]  You know, there's, there's a lot of people, you know, we, we tend to sometimes be a bit solitary and, and hacker them, you know, just, you know, playing with our toys ourselves.
[52:30.390 --> 52:37.510]  And, you know, there's nothing more beautiful than being like people really connect on a way that they've never connected with each other before.
[52:38.370 --> 52:49.750]  Um, one of the other things that actually surprised me, uh, we're not necessarily normally the greatest at mentorship, dealing with bringing the next generation up and introduce them to things.
[52:49.750 --> 53:02.370]  And DEF CON this year had DEF CON kids and just had all of these, you know, uh, 10 to 16 year olds showing up and just, you know, experiencing this world for the first time in their lives.
[53:02.730 --> 53:07.010]  And it was by and large, an absolutely positive experience from every report that I've gotten.
[53:07.010 --> 53:12.950]  And, you know, one, there was actually one finding that was totally unexpected from my perspective.
[53:13.270 --> 53:21.370]  One 10 year old girl, but it was by the nickname of sci-fi, um, playing her online games on her mobile phone.
[53:21.870 --> 53:23.710]  And saw, well, she was getting it.
[53:24.890 --> 53:26.770]  And there is, or whatever a day.
[53:26.890 --> 53:28.410]  I don't know which games were involved in it.
[53:28.590 --> 53:29.390]  They're like...
[53:29.390 --> 53:31.070]  She's like, well, I'm getting something every day.
[53:31.390 --> 53:33.750]  What if I just tell my phone it's next year?
[53:33.750 --> 53:38.150]  And she got, like, 3,650 smurf fairies.
[53:38.850 --> 53:40.450]  The time acceleration attack.
[53:40.970 --> 53:44.530]  I haven't seen time acceleration attack in years.
[53:45.350 --> 53:47.090]  And some people were like, is that legitimate?
[53:47.290 --> 53:48.370]  It's like, are you kidding?
[53:48.750 --> 53:58.230]  This is like the old toy you use to find, uh, find, uh, uh, bad stuff with, uh, a phone home, you know, something that calls home every month.
[53:58.230 --> 54:01.670]  Well, you just make every month, every minute, and you find the bad stuff.
[54:02.270 --> 54:07.090]  So, you know, it was really cool seeing the kids not only experiencing, but participating.
[54:08.010 --> 54:08.370]  Yeah.
[54:08.430 --> 54:08.670]  I know that.
[54:08.670 --> 54:13.170]  I know that used to be a trick, uh, ages ago with, uh, shareware, where it would only work for a certain amount of days.
[54:13.170 --> 54:15.670]  And if you turned your clock back to that day, it would work again.
[54:15.970 --> 54:16.150]  Yes.
[54:16.250 --> 54:18.930]  I myself am guilty of doing that animal crossing.
[54:19.870 --> 54:20.230]  Yeah.
[54:20.370 --> 54:20.470]  Yeah.
[54:20.470 --> 54:20.890]  Oh yeah.
[54:21.070 --> 54:23.930]  And most of the clock attacks are always, uh, slowing time down.
[54:24.310 --> 54:30.430]  Someone had the comment, oh yeah, there are still VMS machines that are running in the seventies because that's just as far as the license went.
[54:31.150 --> 54:35.450]  Um, so we normally do slow down, but this was fun to see a speed up.
[54:36.330 --> 54:37.990]  And from a 10 year old, that's awesome.
[54:39.050 --> 54:40.850]  I'm going to be passing the phone to somebody.
[54:41.390 --> 54:41.710]  Okay.
[54:46.270 --> 54:46.810]  All right, guys.
[54:46.890 --> 54:50.470]  If the clock back home is doing the same thing it's doing here, we're pretty much, uh, run out of time.
[54:50.630 --> 54:51.030]  Yes, indeed.
[54:51.410 --> 54:53.250]  Um, but we're sorry about the technical problems.
[54:53.330 --> 54:54.870]  That's part of the whole experience right now.
[54:55.150 --> 54:59.850]  Uh, we're, we're talking to you on a single cell phone, as opposed to the full radio studio we had at the beginning of the show.
[55:00.470 --> 55:12.450]  And yeah, it's a bit of a setback, but, uh, the, the, the station is going to come back on, uh, momentarily and you can continue to listen, uh, to the fine folks at binary voice, uh, through a signal.hackerspaces.org.
[55:12.490 --> 55:15.610]  And it'll be just like being at the camp over the air.
[55:15.950 --> 55:18.090]  And, uh, I think that'll be really, uh, kind of cool.
[55:18.290 --> 55:25.330]  In the meantime, I just want to thank everybody for, uh, for stopping into this really cool tent of the studio and, uh, maybe we all give a big cheer to New York.
[55:32.130 --> 55:32.550]  Awesome.
[55:32.910 --> 55:33.750]  Thank you, Germany.
[55:34.050 --> 55:35.470]  I'd like to thank all our guests out there.
[55:35.850 --> 55:40.230]  Uh, everyone at CCC camp and, uh, our guests in the studio.
[55:40.430 --> 55:42.270]  And I think that's about it.
[55:42.350 --> 55:45.090]  You can send us email OTH at 2600.com.
[55:45.770 --> 55:49.310]  Join us again next week for another adventurous edition of off the hook.
[55:49.310 --> 55:51.010]  See, how it goes to my friends.
[55:51.570 --> 55:53.090]  Or a round to play.
[55:53.490 --> 55:55.850]  But today, stay out of the box.
[55:56.190 --> 55:57.890]  PlayStation, throw me out.
[55:58.090 --> 56:01.630]  Fight on YouTube and on digital friends.
[56:02.110 --> 56:03.670]  On the life of others.
[56:04.170 --> 56:05.930]  That I'm slowly tired.
[56:06.250 --> 56:07.950]  And it doesn't hurt me, dear.
[56:08.250 --> 56:10.310]  Who has a relationship with them?
[56:12.050 --> 56:14.350]  Lonely on my space.
[56:14.550 --> 56:20.430]  Watch the house, watch theown on Facebook, shoot in of Outlook and all the other shops.
[56:21.310 --> 56:24.510]  Let's alumn, let's celebrate.
[56:25.030 --> 56:26.570]  We meet people.
[56:26.570 --> 56:29.350]  And we are going to fix it.
[56:37.900 --> 56:41.520]  The technology will be at the end.
[56:42.320 --> 56:46.340]  We check not, what we are doing here.
[56:47.240 --> 56:55.200]  The digital hype is a little bit, because in my life 2.0 is often on the road.
[56:55.820 --> 56:59.040]  Who wants to know who knows who knows who knows?
[56:59.040 --> 57:03.920]  When no one greet his neighbors, not my name.
[57:04.340 --> 57:08.060]  Our nose swings with every new trend.
[57:08.160 --> 57:11.960]  And there are circumstances that you give yourself better.
[57:14.220 --> 57:22.640]  On MySpace, on Facebook, on Outlook and all the other channels.
[57:23.140 --> 57:26.440]  Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go.
[57:26.440 --> 57:31.140]  We meet people and we meet ourselves.
[57:31.980 --> 57:39.940]  On Facebook, on Twitter, on the newsletter and on StudiVZ.
[57:40.180 --> 57:43.840]  On iPhone and your Blackberry.
[57:45.100 --> 57:49.160]  Baby, don't worry, that's worth a job.
[57:49.580 --> 57:51.920]  Baby, please wait, that's not.
[57:53.080 --> 57:55.520]  So geht das gar nicht.
[57:57.080 --> 57:59.880]  Die Welt ist mir zu digital.
[58:01.100 --> 58:04.040]  Komm, wir werden organisch.
[58:06.060 --> 58:08.360]  Computer sind so rational.
[58:09.980 --> 58:12.620]  Wir sind animalisch.
[58:14.300 --> 58:17.040]  Die Welt ist mir zu digital.
[58:18.340 --> 58:21.180]  Komm, wir werden organisch.
[58:26.900 --> 58:33.320]  Und auf Facebook, auf Outlook und all den anderen Kram.
[58:33.680 --> 58:37.400]  Lass uns ausgehen, lass uns feiern.
[58:37.780 --> 58:42.160]  Wir treffen Menschen und wir fassen uns an.
[59:17.220 --> 59:19.060]  Oh, Facebook.
[59:19.520 --> 59:19.980]  Facebook.
[59:20.620 --> 59:21.160]  MySpace.
[59:21.420 --> 59:24.540]  Well, I just don't happen to have those things.
[59:25.200 --> 59:26.800]  But, you know what?
[59:26.820 --> 59:28.400]  If you like it, enjoy it.
[59:28.440 --> 59:29.780]  You like it, I love it.
[59:29.800 --> 59:30.640]  That's my philosophy.