[00:01.690 --> 00:10.230]  So while this emblematic dance firmly maintains its roots here, its beauty will likely continue transcending borders for some time to come.
[00:12.090 --> 00:14.510]  Greg Morrow, Al Jazeera, Buenos Aires.
[00:25.870 --> 00:29.930]  You've been listening to Al Jazeera English, heard exclusively on the Pacifica Radio Network.
[00:35.970 --> 00:39.750]  And you're listening to WBAI New York, where the time is 7 o'clock.
[00:39.930 --> 00:41.190]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:46.380 --> 00:48.280]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:48.660 --> 00:50.800]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:51.840 --> 00:53.800]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:54.400 --> 00:56.300]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:57.000 --> 00:58.940]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:02.620 --> 01:04.620]  But the best is paid for the worst.
[01:05.220 --> 01:07.120]  I hope that's understood.
[01:07.320 --> 01:08.080]  But did it move?
[02:04.850 --> 02:07.130]  And given to everybody, the program is Off the Hook.
[02:07.170 --> 02:10.110]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:10.110 --> 02:12.150]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:12.470 --> 02:13.150]  Good evening.
[02:13.650 --> 02:14.110]  Red Hack.
[02:14.290 --> 02:14.550]  Hello.
[02:15.310 --> 02:15.670]  Voltaire.
[02:15.870 --> 02:16.070]  Hey.
[02:16.390 --> 02:16.750]  Gus.
[02:17.050 --> 02:17.390]  Oh, hi.
[02:19.650 --> 02:20.530]  Who is it?
[02:20.650 --> 02:21.410]  Okay, it's Rob T.
[02:21.530 --> 02:21.890]  Firefly.
[02:22.170 --> 02:27.450]  No, you're completely blocked by someone's sweatshirt that was thrown over the brilliant green flashing light.
[02:27.690 --> 02:29.130]  As in so many aspects of my life.
[02:29.210 --> 02:34.610]  We have a flashing green light that kind of blinds us to let us know that we're on the air or a microphone is on.
[02:34.730 --> 02:38.250]  But in so doing, to protect us from that, we have to put a sweatshirt over it.
[02:38.250 --> 02:39.510]  And I can't see you at all.
[02:39.730 --> 02:40.370]  You're coming out ahead.
[02:40.490 --> 02:41.070]  I know what I look like.
[02:41.070 --> 02:41.530]  I hear you.
[02:41.670 --> 02:42.390]  And there you are.
[02:42.570 --> 02:44.030]  And Bernie S.
[02:44.130 --> 02:44.750]  is down in Philadelphia.
[02:45.070 --> 02:45.930]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:46.210 --> 02:47.350]  And Kyle is here.
[02:47.770 --> 02:48.110]  Hello.
[02:48.110 --> 02:51.290]  And you just got back from where?
[02:51.350 --> 02:52.190]  The Ukraine, I believe.
[02:52.510 --> 02:52.830]  Yes.
[02:52.830 --> 02:54.310]  That's where we heard from you last week.
[02:54.610 --> 02:54.870]  Indeed.
[02:55.070 --> 02:56.110]  I was in Kiev.
[02:56.410 --> 02:57.010]  You were in Kiev.
[02:57.530 --> 02:57.890]  Yes.
[02:57.890 --> 02:58.250]  Okay.
[02:58.470 --> 02:59.270]  And that's in the Ukraine.
[02:59.490 --> 02:59.970]  It is.
[03:00.190 --> 03:06.650]  And from what I recall, you were there on the day that it was the 20th anniversary of independence in Ukraine.
[03:06.930 --> 03:07.850]  I was indeed.
[03:07.990 --> 03:09.130]  In fact, I was there with you.
[03:09.990 --> 03:10.650]  Was I there too?
[03:10.850 --> 03:11.090]  Okay.
[03:11.210 --> 03:11.410]  Yeah.
[03:11.530 --> 03:11.810]  All right.
[03:11.930 --> 03:14.070]  That explains why I wasn't here then the last couple of weeks.
[03:14.970 --> 03:15.330]  Okay.
[03:15.450 --> 03:15.670]  Yes.
[03:15.790 --> 03:27.910]  And if I recall, we were in a place called Belarus before that and also Poland and of course the CCC camp at Germany, which a number of us were at and had a great time, but we're all back in the country now.
[03:28.030 --> 03:29.730]  In fact, Redhack, I think you were the last one to get back.
[03:29.990 --> 03:30.810]  Did you get stuck?
[03:30.810 --> 03:31.370]  I got back.
[03:31.690 --> 03:32.010]  Yeah.
[03:32.570 --> 03:39.590]  After the camp, I went to Prague and Munich and I was supposed to return on Sunday, but all the airports in New York were closed.
[03:39.750 --> 03:40.830]  So I ended up coming back Monday.
[03:40.830 --> 03:41.250]  Yeah.
[03:41.430 --> 03:47.510]  We returned, uh, on, on Friday because the hurricane was scheduled for Saturday, Saturday slash Sunday.
[03:47.710 --> 03:49.850]  On the plus side, it was raining in Munich on Saturday.
[03:49.850 --> 03:55.250]  So I got a really nice day on Sunday, uh, for, you know, but you didn't have a very nice day just now today.
[03:55.310 --> 03:56.210]  What happened to you?
[03:56.210 --> 03:56.770]  You just had a run.
[03:57.030 --> 03:57.670]  Oh, just now.
[03:57.930 --> 03:59.370]  With a wild animal on the street.
[03:59.730 --> 04:03.070]  Uh, yeah, uh, I was biking and, uh, I ran into a wasp.
[04:03.530 --> 04:04.630]  You gotta be careful.
[04:04.730 --> 04:06.190]  And it stung me in the neck.
[04:06.310 --> 04:06.970]  Who had the right of way?
[04:07.110 --> 04:08.350]  Was it the wasp or was it you?
[04:09.270 --> 04:10.390]  I don't really know.
[04:10.510 --> 04:15.990]  I didn't, it kind of came out of nowhere, you know, but, uh, yeah, so I might be quiet here just sitting in pain.
[04:16.450 --> 04:20.670]  And Bernie, of course, you were, uh, also down at, uh, at the, at the, uh, chaos camp.
[04:20.770 --> 04:22.590]  You went to, uh, Paris, I believe afterwards.
[04:22.890 --> 04:23.330]  I did.
[04:23.450 --> 04:35.890]  Well, actually before that, I went to Ghent, Belgium for, uh, for a few days to visit the white space hacker space and then, uh, on to Paris where the location is, uh, the hacker space there is TempLab.
[04:36.270 --> 04:36.590]  Mm-hmm.
[04:36.650 --> 04:38.050]  But they also have a whole city too.
[04:38.270 --> 04:38.630]  Oh yeah.
[04:38.710 --> 04:40.330]  A non-hacker space type things.
[04:40.550 --> 04:40.590]  Yeah.
[04:40.690 --> 04:43.030]  It's not the only thing in Paris, but, uh.
[04:43.210 --> 04:45.090]  I hope you got out and, and, and sampled some of it.
[04:45.190 --> 04:45.330]  Yeah, absolutely.
[04:45.750 --> 04:45.750]  Okay.
[04:45.750 --> 04:50.290]  I strolled the Seine and, uh, took in some amazing sights.
[04:50.430 --> 04:51.350]  It's, it's a beautiful city.
[04:51.910 --> 04:53.770]  Now, is that, is that the only hacker space in Paris?
[04:53.790 --> 04:57.570]  I've been sort of surprised by how many I've seen popping up in various places.
[04:57.670 --> 05:03.470]  Actually, I was, I was talking with my dad the other day and he's like, there's this really cool thing in Ann Arbor that I didn't really know about.
[05:03.630 --> 05:06.930]  And they'll let you do electronics and they'll let you use machine tools and things like that.
[05:07.030 --> 05:08.510]  And I was like, yeah, dad, it's called a hacker space.
[05:08.770 --> 05:09.290]  You know what else?
[05:09.350 --> 05:10.130]  Your mic is not working.
[05:10.130 --> 05:10.370]  Oh, is it dead?
[05:10.370 --> 05:11.150]  You have to share Rob T.
[05:11.310 --> 05:11.610]  Fireflies.
[05:11.730 --> 05:12.110]  Yeah, there you go.
[05:12.170 --> 05:12.830]  Very sorry about that.
[05:12.890 --> 05:13.650]  Grab it with your hand there.
[05:13.750 --> 05:13.870]  Okay.
[05:14.130 --> 05:16.650]  Um, so, there, oh, that is, there's my voice.
[05:16.890 --> 05:24.350]  Um, so yeah, so I ended, I ended up looking up, uh, Ann Arbor and it's, as it turns out, there appear to be three hacker spaces just in Ann Arbor, Michigan, which is a college town.
[05:24.490 --> 05:25.490]  So that makes a certain amount of sense.
[05:25.630 --> 05:28.250]  But, uh, yeah, so I'm wondering, does, does Paris have more than that?
[05:28.450 --> 05:28.950]  It does.
[05:29.090 --> 05:31.090]  In fact, Temp Lab has two locations.
[05:31.770 --> 05:31.930]  Wow.
[05:32.090 --> 05:33.910]  But the same hacker space has two locations?
[05:34.130 --> 05:34.890]  Apparently, yes.
[05:35.210 --> 05:38.970]  They may be in the process of moving from one to the other, but they're both are, they're in use.
[05:39.070 --> 05:39.990]  So they're not franchising?
[05:40.350 --> 05:41.070]  Uh, no.
[05:41.310 --> 05:42.690]  Although, that's an idea.
[05:42.990 --> 05:43.670]  I don't know.
[05:44.350 --> 05:49.030]  Let's, let's kill that idea now because I would not, yeah, I wouldn't want to see franchises of hacker spaces.
[05:49.270 --> 05:53.610]  That would, uh, we did have a new hack city east and west way back in the nineties.
[05:53.770 --> 05:54.270]  I remember that.
[05:54.370 --> 06:05.210]  But back when hacker spaces first started, a lot of people don't realize that, uh, you know, the loft, new hack city, not work, various places like that, uh, existed back then and, uh, were, were kind of, uh, the precursors.
[06:05.530 --> 06:08.110]  But, uh, tell us more about the, the Parisian ones, Bernie.
[06:08.610 --> 06:18.650]  Oh, uh, well, in, in, in true, uh, Parisian style, uh, they were classy places and, um, just creative folks.
[06:18.830 --> 06:26.650]  It's kind of hard to pin down specifically, uh, um, what, what struck me, but, um, there were, uh, a bunch of creative people there.
[06:26.790 --> 06:35.910]  They were, they were working on a microcontroller projects there and, um, uh, friendly people, uh, you know, against the stereotype of unfriendly French people.
[06:36.090 --> 06:37.230]  They were all very friendly.
[06:37.750 --> 06:51.070]  And, um, it's, these places are worth visiting because there are people working on, on a variety of projects and they're, uh, all technical and friendly and, uh, will gladly show you what they're working on.
[06:51.190 --> 07:00.090]  So I invite anybody listening to look up their city or the nearest city to them and see what hacker space is there and pay a visit because you will, uh, be bound to learn something.
[07:00.690 --> 07:00.850]  All right.
[07:00.950 --> 07:04.030]  And we certainly have our, our share of hacker spaces here in New York as well.
[07:04.470 --> 07:08.990]  Uh, I know, Kyle, you're involved, uh, a couple of hacker spaces out in, in Seattle where you're from.
[07:09.830 --> 07:11.590]  Um, HackerBot Labs being one of them.
[07:12.450 --> 07:12.590]  Yeah.
[07:12.590 --> 07:18.170]  That's, that's, uh, the same spirit, I think, uh, holds true of just about every, every hacker space you go to throughout the world.
[07:18.490 --> 07:18.710]  Yeah.
[07:18.890 --> 07:21.930]  Um, I'm actually curious, Bernie, was there much crossover?
[07:22.070 --> 07:26.370]  Did the spaces in one part of France, did they know about other spaces?
[07:26.610 --> 07:27.470]  Were they aware of each other?
[07:27.550 --> 07:31.490]  Well, I'm sure they know about, I would, I just, uh, I don't know about more than the one, but, uh, yes.
[07:31.750 --> 07:35.310]  Um, I'm sure they're, they're, they're in contact.
[07:35.650 --> 07:35.770]  Sure.
[07:35.870 --> 07:37.210]  No, I'm sure they know what's going on.
[07:37.490 --> 07:43.710]  Um, anybody can, uh, visit any of the hacker spaces websites and easy portal for that is hackerspaces.org.
[07:44.370 --> 07:47.310]  Um, and each, each, almost every hacker space has its own website.
[07:47.310 --> 07:49.630]  So you can check and see what they have.
[07:49.710 --> 07:53.570]  A lot of them have a blog format, uh, or wiki format website.
[07:53.570 --> 07:57.370]  You can, uh, you can see, uh, what's going on in that city.
[07:57.510 --> 08:03.730]  In Philadelphia, where I am here, we have, uh, The Hactory and Hive 76, uh, dot org.
[08:03.890 --> 08:06.670]  And they're both websites, uh, show what projects we're working on there.
[08:06.970 --> 08:10.610]  So, um, you know, everybody keeps everybody up to date on what they're working on.
[08:11.730 --> 08:15.370]  Yeah, that, that, that's absolutely been, um, my experience too.
[08:15.450 --> 08:17.770]  And probably they'll, they'll, they'll start to get to know each other.
[08:17.910 --> 08:19.610]  And in Seattle, that's definitely true.
[08:19.730 --> 08:22.930]  A lot of these spaces talk to each other and, uh, work on things.
[08:23.090 --> 08:28.690]  And there's a lot of cross pollination as, uh, I believe Mitch Altman said with, with the spirit of his, uh, passport.
[08:28.710 --> 08:31.610]  So people visit and, uh, find out about each other.
[08:31.790 --> 08:40.870]  Cause just in Seattle, it's like, you can belong to one, but there's people that are, uh, that you see in other places just very frequently, maybe several times a week, uh, just by coincidence.
[08:41.170 --> 08:44.510]  So, and in addition to, uh, hacker spaces, we have hacker meetings.
[08:44.710 --> 08:47.330]  In fact, this Friday is, uh, is the first Friday of the month.
[08:47.410 --> 08:49.430]  So that means 2600 meeting day, correct?
[08:49.730 --> 08:51.010]  Um, yes, that's correct.
[08:51.250 --> 08:51.350]  All right.
[08:51.430 --> 08:51.890]  Do you have something to add?
[08:51.890 --> 08:54.470]  I have another event that I want to tell people about.
[08:54.630 --> 09:01.710]  Well, can I give some, some attention to the hacker meetings coming up on Friday and then we can jump in with another event because we have so many events.
[09:01.710 --> 09:02.430]  I know, I know.
[09:02.430 --> 09:02.790]  Lots of events.
[09:02.970 --> 09:07.350]  But, uh, the first Friday meetings take place all throughout the world, uh, first Friday of the month.
[09:07.870 --> 09:14.730]  And, um, yeah, uh, go to, uh, www.2600.com slash meetings to see if there's one near you.
[09:14.890 --> 09:15.030]  Okay.
[09:15.210 --> 09:16.330]  Now what's, what's your exciting event?
[09:16.330 --> 09:20.130]  I just want people to know about there's an event coming up in October called the hack meet.
[09:20.330 --> 09:24.950]  Uh, it's a thing that's happened, uh, in Italy and, uh, in Spain in the past.
[09:25.110 --> 09:28.150]  And it's happening in San Francisco the third week in October.
[09:28.150 --> 09:32.450]  It's a sort of, uh, radical political, uh, hacker thing.
[09:32.770 --> 09:35.610]  And hack meet.org is the website for people who want to know more.
[09:36.390 --> 09:37.270]  Radical, huh?
[09:37.430 --> 09:37.610]  Yeah.
[09:37.850 --> 09:38.030]  Okay.
[09:38.230 --> 09:40.670]  So what kind of people, uh, would be interested in this?
[09:40.830 --> 09:43.730]  Just radical people or, uh, or everyday people?
[09:44.350 --> 09:45.090]  I don't know.
[09:47.010 --> 09:49.070]  I go to the website, check it out.
[09:49.250 --> 09:50.330]  And the website again is?
[09:50.490 --> 09:51.470]  Hackmeet.org.
[09:51.550 --> 09:51.830]  Okay.
[09:52.290 --> 09:52.890]  That's all there.
[09:53.070 --> 09:56.690]  If the event is half as good as its logo, then it's definitely worth going to.
[09:56.810 --> 09:57.330]  What's the logo?
[09:58.070 --> 09:58.650]  It's very cool.
[09:58.950 --> 09:59.350]  Okay.
[09:59.450 --> 10:00.310]  Great description there.
[10:00.570 --> 10:07.450]  It's a penguin in, uh, in black and white with like a, uh, like a Soviet liberation star behind it.
[10:07.650 --> 10:07.950]  Okay.
[10:08.030 --> 10:09.150]  And it just looks great.
[10:09.250 --> 10:15.930]  One thing I can say, uh, we couldn't find any hacker spaces or hackers at all in, uh, Belarus or Ukraine.
[10:15.930 --> 10:17.390]  We asked on this radio show.
[10:17.570 --> 10:23.070]  We asked, uh, via Twitter, we, we stood in the street with a megaphone and looked on, uh, hackerspaces.org.
[10:23.170 --> 10:25.730]  I, I went there and tried to seek out some place in Kyiv.
[10:25.970 --> 10:28.030]  So, uh, that needs attention, folks.
[10:28.190 --> 10:30.550]  We need to build some more hacker, uh, areas there.
[10:30.710 --> 10:32.670]  So nowhere in Ukraine or nowhere in Kyiv?
[10:32.810 --> 10:33.890]  Nowhere in Ukraine at all.
[10:34.030 --> 10:34.230]  Yeah.
[10:34.570 --> 10:34.650]  Yeah.
[10:34.990 --> 10:35.090]  Yeah.
[10:35.210 --> 10:35.210]  Ross.
[10:35.410 --> 10:35.590]  Interesting.
[10:35.950 --> 10:41.130]  But of course the, uh, of course the good thing about the hackerspace movement is if it doesn't exist near you, you can always start it.
[10:41.290 --> 10:41.590]  That's right.
[10:46.850 --> 10:47.930]  Or organizing a meeting.
[10:48.250 --> 10:52.450]  Have we talked about, I think Mitch has, uh, an effort going on in Africa coming up.
[10:52.530 --> 10:54.730]  There's something about, uh, building hackerspaces in Africa.
[10:54.850 --> 10:55.270]  No, tell us.
[10:55.430 --> 10:55.890]  Keep an eye.
[10:55.970 --> 10:58.070]  I'm not sure how public it is yet, but keep an eye out.
[10:58.270 --> 10:59.910]  Well, it's very public now if we're talking about it on the radio.
[11:00.130 --> 11:02.150]  So, uh, go ahead and, uh, fill us in.
[11:02.230 --> 11:05.170]  Follow Mitch Altman on Twitter and he should be announcing things about it.
[11:05.270 --> 11:06.670]  Or follow Mitch Altman in real life.
[11:06.850 --> 11:08.390]  Follow because Mitch Altman is really neat.
[11:08.470 --> 11:12.950]  He's a really great teacher who will help you feel comfortable with all kinds of things related to circuits and things like that.
[11:13.350 --> 11:13.870]  Okay, cool.
[11:14.550 --> 11:25.950]  Um, so moving, moving away from the whole, um, um, um, um, I guess hacker spaces and hacker conferences and, and, and various other events that we've been attending over the past, uh, a few weeks.
[11:26.430 --> 11:31.470]  Let's discuss, uh, those of us who are traveling, um, returning, returning to the country.
[11:31.770 --> 11:36.970]  Now, did anybody have any experiences or, uh, no, I know, uh, Mike, you were in Iceland.
[11:37.310 --> 11:37.930]  I was in Iceland.
[11:38.170 --> 11:38.710]  That's always fun.
[11:38.930 --> 11:40.330]  They're super friendly in Iceland.
[11:40.550 --> 11:40.850]  They really are.
[11:40.970 --> 11:41.410]  They really are.
[11:41.510 --> 11:44.230]  Um, and actually I had no problem returning to the United States.
[11:44.350 --> 11:45.990]  I was kind of surprised they didn't even talk to me.
[11:46.590 --> 11:50.170]  I had a very long wait to retrieve my bag, but that's not much of a story.
[11:50.350 --> 11:51.290]  I didn't say a word to you.
[11:51.630 --> 11:53.690]  They said, hello, scan my passport.
[11:54.050 --> 11:54.790]  That was about it.
[11:54.910 --> 11:55.130]  Okay.
[11:55.330 --> 11:55.630]  All right.
[11:56.210 --> 11:58.130]  Um, and, uh, that was the case.
[11:58.370 --> 12:04.490]  Um, well, when you, when you go through Iceland, you go through all the customs nonsense in Iceland, you don't have to do it in the States, right?
[12:04.930 --> 12:05.250]  No.
[12:05.750 --> 12:06.070]  Okay.
[12:06.190 --> 12:07.550]  So you do it in the United States.
[12:07.550 --> 12:08.230]  Wait, okay.
[12:08.330 --> 12:08.730]  So then yes.
[12:08.730 --> 12:09.710]  I'm disagreeing with you.
[12:09.910 --> 12:10.390]  You're disagreeing with me.
[12:10.450 --> 12:10.830]  Okay, fine.
[12:10.850 --> 12:21.610]  So you don't do anything in Iceland because when you go to the EU via Iceland, you, you go through all the, uh, you have to leave the EU in Iceland, but that there was actually a very long line, but they don't do anything.
[12:21.770 --> 12:22.610]  They just stamp your passport.
[12:22.770 --> 12:27.930]  When you go through Iceland to get to Europe, they search your bag, well, they don't search your bag, but they, they put it through the x-ray thing again.
[12:28.150 --> 12:29.050]  You have to go through security.
[12:29.210 --> 12:29.290]  Yeah.
[12:29.410 --> 12:32.050]  I experienced that on my way to, uh, to Germany.
[12:32.370 --> 12:33.270]  It was loads of fun.
[12:33.370 --> 12:34.310]  I recommend it to anyone.
[12:34.950 --> 12:35.270]  Okay.
[12:35.690 --> 12:36.550]  Uh, yes, Kyle.
[12:36.610 --> 12:37.530]  Oh, wait, I do have one thing.
[12:37.530 --> 12:38.290]  Tell me, actually, about that.
[12:39.710 --> 12:48.450]  My laptop has a sticker on it, which is a GNU logo from the Free Software Foundation, and the security screener actually knew what it was, which was kind of weird.
[12:48.550 --> 12:48.710]  Really?
[12:48.910 --> 12:49.070]  Yeah.
[12:49.210 --> 12:49.690]  What'd they say?
[12:50.330 --> 12:53.650]  He thought... he was like, at first, I thought that was the guy from Reddit, but it's not.
[12:53.650 --> 12:55.910]  It's the GNU, which is kind of weird.
[12:56.030 --> 12:57.610]  I don't think that would ever happen in the United States.
[12:57.730 --> 12:58.350]  Well, I don't know.
[12:59.270 --> 13:01.790]  I'd never be surprised by anything that happens.
[13:02.670 --> 13:05.670]  I wanted to add, I think that's absolutely true.
[13:05.870 --> 13:08.050]  The reverse, it does not work the same way.
[13:08.130 --> 13:16.210]  When you're going to the EU in Iceland, you can definitely check into the EU there and then have no customs check when you get to the mainland in Europe.
[13:16.330 --> 13:17.710]  But the opposite is not true.
[13:17.870 --> 13:18.610]  You have to get...
[13:18.610 --> 13:21.590]  Iceland is not in the EU, but they're in the Schengen Agreement.
[13:21.590 --> 13:27.790]  So you go through passport control in Iceland, but you don't go through US passport control anywhere except the US and maybe Ireland.
[13:27.790 --> 13:28.710]  Yeah, Ireland.
[13:28.830 --> 13:29.530]  That's the weird one.
[13:29.610 --> 13:38.350]  You go through passport control in Ireland heading to the United States and it's very, very strange because you're talking to all these Americans over there and then you just breeze on through in the States.
[13:38.510 --> 13:38.950]  Why is that?
[13:38.950 --> 13:40.010]  I don't know why that is.
[13:40.130 --> 13:41.250]  Is Ireland not part of Schengen?
[13:41.790 --> 13:43.090]  Well, they are, right?
[13:43.190 --> 13:44.010]  No, they're not, but...
[13:44.010 --> 13:44.290]  Or they're not.
[13:44.630 --> 13:45.010]  Oh, boy.
[13:45.250 --> 13:48.470]  Does it have something to do with historical immigration patterns from Ireland maybe?
[13:48.470 --> 13:51.750]  I think it's just that Ireland will let them, basically, and there's enough traffic.
[13:52.070 --> 13:55.610]  It's the same as in Canada, but it's further away.
[13:56.490 --> 13:58.270]  I have one story.
[13:58.330 --> 14:01.510]  It's not quite customs related, but it has to do with stuff we've talked about.
[14:01.610 --> 14:04.770]  I've talked about film and security and x-ray scanning.
[14:04.930 --> 14:05.210]  That's right.
[14:05.210 --> 14:07.410]  You had to bring film through the x-ray.
[14:07.530 --> 14:08.650]  Well, okay, you can tell us that story.
[14:08.750 --> 14:18.630]  Well, I left from Kiev on a Czech Airlines flight to Prague and then stayed there a night and then connected to a flight to New York City.
[14:19.690 --> 14:20.950]  And I'll get to that later.
[14:21.110 --> 14:23.050]  It was simple and no problem.
[14:23.230 --> 14:33.790]  But leaving Kiev, I had film and there were three security checkpoints, three places to go and you follow a green arrow and that's the green zone.
[14:33.790 --> 14:39.370]  You go in the green zone if you're a regular passenger, just going through the initial security screen.
[14:39.530 --> 14:41.330]  And there was one line for the red zone.
[14:41.690 --> 14:47.130]  And that was crew and passengers and passengers with special needs.
[14:47.730 --> 15:01.370]  And it was a bit ominous because they had a metal detector lined right in front of a full body x-ray machine, as well as the baggage or luggage x-ray machines for your personal items, your carry-ons.
[15:01.370 --> 15:06.510]  So I'm looking at three of these, which are all very bad looking to me because it looks like you get no choice.
[15:06.670 --> 15:09.710]  You go through the metal detector and then right into the full body x-ray machine.
[15:10.430 --> 15:15.130]  I don't want my film x-rayed and frankly, don't want to be x-rayed myself.
[15:15.790 --> 15:17.730]  So it was very interesting.
[15:18.830 --> 15:23.890]  You and I stepped aside, kind of made a plan because it was a lot sooner than we thought.
[15:24.650 --> 15:31.810]  Every time we travel, we have to make a plan because there's different degrees of difficulty getting your film through without being x-rayed.
[15:31.950 --> 15:35.210]  Yeah, film's falling out of vogue and it's like this new thing now.
[15:35.370 --> 15:39.130]  Whenever you talk to somebody, you have to re-educate people about something that's 30 years old.
[15:39.430 --> 15:43.410]  So in any event, you decided to go for the green zone line, which was fine.
[15:43.410 --> 15:44.770]  You were prepared to do that.
[15:44.990 --> 15:49.290]  I did not want to be scanned in any way, anything, film or anything.
[15:49.310 --> 15:52.330]  So I went for the red line and...
[15:52.330 --> 15:56.090]  I took you to the red zone before I just abandoned you and went to the green zone.
[15:56.230 --> 15:56.410]  Fair enough.
[15:56.410 --> 15:57.070]  It wasn't that easy.
[15:57.070 --> 16:04.550]  It was actually really... the one person checking crew and passengers stuff, she was at a desk and she was a bit upset that I was there.
[16:04.690 --> 16:11.130]  But the two or three people running the x-ray or the metal detector and the baggage x-ray were very kind and understanding.
[16:12.330 --> 16:15.590]  And there was no full body x-ray in that line because it's crew.
[16:15.910 --> 16:21.870]  So once I spoke with them for like three or five minutes, it was no problem.
[16:21.870 --> 16:39.770]  So I actually circumvented the full body scan because of my preference for hand inspection of my film, which I thought was really awesome in a place like Ukraine where I speak very little of the language and I was fully expecting to be upset.
[16:40.250 --> 16:45.610]  But it actually was a breeze and I was able to avoid the full body x-ray in that way.
[16:45.690 --> 16:57.010]  And in fact, one of the customs ladies after I'd gone through came up and I'd been saying that my camera was an antique just for kind of to embellish a little bit and she got her buddy who I guess was a camera buff and he came over and said, it's old,
[16:57.050 --> 16:58.010]  it's not an antique.
[16:58.190 --> 17:00.870]  But you had to wait for him to come from downstairs or something to tell you that.
[17:00.870 --> 17:00.870]  Right.
[17:00.870 --> 17:01.390]  I was worried.
[17:01.430 --> 17:02.410]  I thought I had to go back.
[17:02.490 --> 17:06.950]  She was like, wait here, you know, all of this, like I was going to have to go back and go around the proper way.
[17:07.070 --> 17:13.230]  But in actuality, they were telling me that I was fibbing about the age of my camera, which is quite old.
[17:13.410 --> 17:17.010]  But then a day later, you had to go through Prague, same thing.
[17:17.230 --> 17:18.950]  And that went smoothly as well.
[17:18.950 --> 17:23.990]  Well, I had no problem in Prague and I had no problem coming into the US.
[17:24.030 --> 17:27.050]  They didn't ask me any questions, really.
[17:27.390 --> 17:27.570]  Okay.
[17:27.810 --> 17:30.150]  Now, your experience in Prague...
[17:30.150 --> 17:33.390]  Let's not bring me into this just yet.
[17:33.590 --> 17:33.870]  Okay.
[17:34.450 --> 17:37.950]  I'm going to ask other people what happened to them first.
[17:38.110 --> 17:43.290]  But needless to say, we were on the same flights and our experiences differed a little bit.
[17:43.450 --> 17:47.630]  Now, Bernie, I know you came back via France.
[17:47.630 --> 17:48.930]  Did you have any information?
[17:48.950 --> 17:51.090]  Any adventures coming into the United States?
[17:51.350 --> 17:52.590]  Not coming back in.
[17:52.590 --> 17:55.830]  In fact, my bag was not even searched.
[17:56.270 --> 17:57.330]  I was amazed.
[17:58.110 --> 17:59.510]  It was a Sunday morning.
[17:59.710 --> 18:00.650]  I got back.
[18:01.470 --> 18:03.010]  Is your bag usually searched?
[18:03.850 --> 18:04.950]  Oftentimes, it is.
[18:05.090 --> 18:16.990]  Now, when I left the United States, when I boarded the plane in New York at JFK, they made me take my laptop out of my backpack and they took the laptop out of its bag.
[18:17.190 --> 18:18.090]  They always do that for everybody.
[18:18.290 --> 18:21.990]  I know, but they did this whole sniffing process where they opened up the lap.
[18:22.130 --> 18:23.170]  They made me turn it on.
[18:23.490 --> 18:32.730]  They swabbed it down with these little fabric tussles and then put that in the mass spectrometer to sniff for explosives.
[18:33.230 --> 18:35.430]  And once they were... they made a big deal about it.
[18:35.530 --> 18:36.810]  But then they put everything back.
[18:37.010 --> 18:39.450]  And you think this is an inconvenience, Bernie.
[18:39.590 --> 18:42.450]  You think this is something worth complaining about over the radio?
[18:42.750 --> 18:43.910]  You have no idea.
[18:44.450 --> 18:45.270]  Okay, I'm just saying.
[18:45.650 --> 18:47.490]  All right, I'm trying to keep it in check here.
[18:47.590 --> 18:48.210]  But wow.
[18:48.530 --> 18:48.850]  All right.
[18:49.050 --> 18:49.850]  So yeah, they did that.
[18:50.010 --> 18:51.070]  They sniffed your computer a little bit.
[18:51.210 --> 18:52.390]  But coming back, none of that.
[18:52.410 --> 18:53.810]  It was very refreshing.
[18:54.010 --> 18:54.790]  It was the first time ever.
[18:54.870 --> 18:56.530]  I think it was just so smooth.
[18:56.850 --> 18:59.390]  I was through customs very quickly.
[18:59.530 --> 19:04.290]  Oh, one guy yelled at me, barked at me to get in a different line because one line was full.
[19:04.410 --> 19:05.250]  But that's normal.
[19:05.470 --> 19:07.330]  Well, hopefully you've gotten over that by now.
[19:07.810 --> 19:11.210]  Now, Red Hector, of course, you also came back from Germany, I believe.
[19:11.510 --> 19:12.890]  Anything happen to you?
[19:13.010 --> 19:13.590]  Any adventures?
[19:13.830 --> 19:15.010]  Any conversations?
[19:15.370 --> 19:15.730]  Nope.
[19:16.630 --> 19:17.030]  All right, then.
[19:17.150 --> 19:18.390]  Well, that's nice and succinct.
[19:18.470 --> 19:19.430]  It was pretty uneventful.
[19:19.570 --> 19:22.550]  I took some trains and I had no problem on the planes or the trains.
[19:23.310 --> 19:25.270]  Oh, I never have trouble on the trains.
[19:25.510 --> 19:25.870]  Ever.
[19:26.070 --> 19:27.510]  Or usually in other places.
[19:27.710 --> 19:27.870]  Okay.
[19:28.030 --> 19:31.670]  You know, I don't want to spend a lot of time on this because it turns into a theme.
[19:32.170 --> 19:35.090]  And I know people don't like to hear complaining all the time.
[19:35.270 --> 19:38.750]  And it makes you into a perpetual victim too.
[19:39.050 --> 19:47.690]  But my God, people, I mean, it's really gotten to the stage where I have to allow extra time because I know this is going to happen to me.
[19:47.810 --> 19:51.550]  I was a little thrown off though by what happened in Prague.
[19:51.850 --> 19:53.130]  Was not expecting this.
[19:53.710 --> 19:56.950]  We had trouble, Kyle and I had trouble with the check-in machine.
[19:57.110 --> 19:59.570]  We were flying Czech Airlines, as you said, but it was actually Delta.
[19:59.770 --> 20:01.030]  Somehow it's both airlines.
[20:01.250 --> 20:03.370]  So the machine, this is kind of weird.
[20:03.490 --> 20:08.130]  The check-in machine tells you to scan your passport.
[20:08.610 --> 20:15.290]  And, you know, you scan your passport and then it gives you the next screen saying, now enter the first three letters of the city you are going to.
[20:15.870 --> 20:21.330]  And they had the letters N for New York or J for JFK.
[20:21.510 --> 20:23.110]  All the possibilities were shaded out.
[20:23.230 --> 20:25.470]  So there was no way to press those buttons.
[20:25.610 --> 20:26.970]  You couldn't select anything.
[20:26.990 --> 20:29.210]  I was trying to figure out what city could I possibly be selected?
[20:29.350 --> 20:29.510]  Z?
[20:29.730 --> 20:34.030]  I could do something with Z or X or just all these, all these letters that did not apply.
[20:34.330 --> 20:35.510]  I could have proceeded.
[20:35.690 --> 20:38.530]  And every time I hit those letters, I saw a list of cities that I wasn't going to.
[20:38.770 --> 20:39.830]  That wasn't going to work.
[20:39.970 --> 20:41.830]  So, Kyle, you had the brilliant idea.
[20:42.030 --> 20:43.930]  Well, on that machine, you couldn't choose Delta either.
[20:43.930 --> 20:45.390]  We would go back and try to start over.
[20:45.390 --> 20:46.430]  It was just Czech Airlines.
[20:46.710 --> 20:47.090]  It was Czech Airlines.
[20:47.110 --> 20:50.570]  We found another exact same kiosk that was actually presenting Delta.
[20:50.930 --> 20:55.010]  You said, Emmanuel, Delta and Czech Airlines are the same thing in this particular flight.
[20:55.010 --> 20:56.270]  So why don't we just go through Delta?
[20:56.390 --> 20:57.370]  And I said, sure, you know what?
[20:57.370 --> 20:58.310]  I can't see any reason.
[20:58.430 --> 20:58.870]  Why not to?
[20:59.430 --> 21:04.170]  So we went to the Delta kiosk and scanned passports and all that kind of thing.
[21:04.310 --> 21:06.170]  And my boarding pass printed out.
[21:06.950 --> 21:11.530]  Unbeknownst to me, and I blame myself for this, I really do, because I should know better.
[21:11.750 --> 21:14.930]  Although I sort of thought that maybe this had faded into obscurity.
[21:15.270 --> 21:18.190]  There were four S's on my boarding pass.
[21:18.870 --> 21:19.350]  Four S's.
[21:19.390 --> 21:20.170]  You remember the four S's?
[21:20.270 --> 21:22.130]  Four S's means that you're suspicious.
[21:23.110 --> 21:26.610]  Mike, when we went to Cuba, every single one of the people on the airplane...
[21:26.610 --> 21:28.730]  I would say... But I haven't had them since then.
[21:28.990 --> 21:33.410]  So they must have... I shouldn't say this on the air, because next time I fly, I'm going to get... I'm going to pay for it.
[21:33.490 --> 21:37.110]  But I haven't... I must have... I feel like I sort of got the S's out of my system then.
[21:37.190 --> 21:37.910]  Well, I don't know.
[21:38.010 --> 21:40.610]  Well, the thing is, everybody on the plane to Cuba had S's.
[21:40.890 --> 21:43.030]  Every... It's the most suspicious flight in the world, right?
[21:43.150 --> 21:44.430]  At that moment, everybody got searched.
[21:44.430 --> 21:48.230]  I got them on the way back to New York on that trip, but that was the last time.
[21:48.390 --> 21:49.850]  I didn't notice the S's.
[21:50.110 --> 21:53.130]  And then we got to the place where we were actually checking in.
[21:53.230 --> 21:58.150]  And the airline in Prague, the airport in Prague, they have a security desk for every single gate.
[21:58.250 --> 21:59.030]  There isn't just one.
[21:59.150 --> 22:00.450]  There's a whole bunch of them.
[22:00.890 --> 22:05.810]  So Kyle went through with his film, and that was what I thought was going to be the big dramatic moment.
[22:06.530 --> 22:12.670]  But then when I got to the same guy, he said, sir, we're going to have a random inspection.
[22:12.670 --> 22:14.290]  And I said, oh, boy, what fun.
[22:14.910 --> 22:17.710]  We seem to be the one that gets the random inspections.
[22:18.410 --> 22:21.370]  And yeah, I did not think it was going to be that big a deal.
[22:21.470 --> 22:22.570]  It was a very big deal.
[22:22.690 --> 22:24.070]  It was an extremely big deal.
[22:24.650 --> 22:26.050]  I was taken into a room.
[22:26.650 --> 22:34.850]  I had every single piece of luggage that I had on me taken out, scrutinized, run through a machine.
[22:35.410 --> 22:40.530]  And the thing is, I have a computer bag that can fit all kinds of things in it.
[22:40.630 --> 22:41.490]  A lot, really.
[22:41.910 --> 22:47.390]  If you stack up everything from that bag, you'd be amazed that it all fit in there in the first place.
[22:47.690 --> 22:51.170]  And apparently, that really pissed off the guy that had to search it all.
[22:51.270 --> 22:54.950]  He was very angry that I had all this stuff in my bag.
[22:54.990 --> 22:59.010]  And I had to beg for him not to mix it all up, because I have a system.
[22:59.090 --> 22:59.890]  I really do have a system.
[23:00.130 --> 23:02.150]  But he just got more and more perturbed.
[23:02.550 --> 23:10.490]  And eventually, it got to the point where he started cramming things back in after he had searched all the luggage.
[23:10.710 --> 23:12.890]  And this took about, what, half an hour or so?
[23:13.430 --> 23:14.310]  45 minutes?
[23:14.530 --> 23:14.950]  An hour?
[23:15.070 --> 23:15.870]  How long was I in there?
[23:16.810 --> 23:18.450]  I would say definitely a half an hour.
[23:18.610 --> 23:19.470]  45 minutes, maybe.
[23:19.630 --> 23:19.890]  All right.
[23:20.450 --> 23:24.890]  The flight was about to leave, and I was getting a little concerned.
[23:25.770 --> 23:28.730]  He started cramming things in and damaging things.
[23:28.810 --> 23:30.190]  And I asked him, please stop doing that.
[23:30.250 --> 23:33.450]  And he just got really antagonistic, actually shoved me aside at one point.
[23:33.570 --> 23:38.750]  Just when I was trying to get him not to destroy a book by pressing it in the wrong direction.
[23:38.750 --> 23:43.430]  As it turns out, he put a hole in the bag by being a jerk about it.
[23:44.490 --> 23:47.270]  And it was really annoying.
[23:47.510 --> 23:50.330]  Very annoying being treated like a terrorist there in Prague.
[23:50.750 --> 23:59.190]  I was the only person, the only person on that entire flight, full flight, must have been 350 people on the flight, the only one to be scrutinized like that.
[23:59.710 --> 24:02.070]  Now, I want to know where the S's came from.
[24:02.070 --> 24:04.050]  Did Delta supply them with the S's?
[24:04.050 --> 24:07.550]  Was that the Homeland Security that gave them the S's?
[24:07.630 --> 24:08.830]  Where do they show up, these S's?
[24:08.830 --> 24:11.830]  They show up at the bottom of the boarding pass, just four S's in a row.
[24:11.890 --> 24:12.670]  And I should have found them.
[24:12.710 --> 24:13.330]  I should have seen them.
[24:13.450 --> 24:14.250]  Because here's the thing.
[24:14.310 --> 24:15.650]  It's the stupidest system in the world.
[24:15.990 --> 24:21.070]  You tell somebody who's allegedly suspicious that we think you're suspicious and we're going to search you.
[24:21.430 --> 24:23.690]  So you're traveling with somebody who's not suspicious.
[24:23.690 --> 24:24.270]  What are you going to do?
[24:24.310 --> 24:28.490]  You're going to give them the suspicious items and you're going to breeze through all the easier.
[24:28.490 --> 24:30.490]  Why do it that way?
[24:30.590 --> 24:31.870]  It's really a stupid system.
[24:32.010 --> 24:37.730]  We criticized it years ago when it first came out, which I think was after 9-11, shortly after 9-11.
[24:37.910 --> 24:39.690]  And I really thought that system didn't exist anymore.
[24:39.770 --> 24:40.490]  Well, it does exist.
[24:40.610 --> 24:43.950]  But I do want to know how that happened, how it came about.
[24:44.150 --> 24:49.670]  I was very surprised, was not expecting that kind of treatment leaving a European city.
[24:51.110 --> 24:52.290]  So yeah, we were kind of annoyed.
[24:52.490 --> 24:55.210]  We were very disappointed.
[24:56.090 --> 25:06.790]  We were trying to file complaints against the Prague airport for damaging the bag, for being rude and unprofessional, and various other things like that.
[25:08.250 --> 25:11.970]  I knew that something was awaiting me back in the United States, because it always is.
[25:12.750 --> 25:23.630]  When we got to JFK, and you breezed through, of course, with no problem, I walked up to the guy who took one look at my passport and just basically said, come with me.
[25:24.130 --> 25:29.190]  And I was like, you know, at this point, after having gone through Prague, I was in no mood for this again.
[25:29.450 --> 25:30.230]  I really wasn't.
[25:30.430 --> 25:38.610]  Every single time I've come into the country in the last couple of years, whether it's from Canada, whether it's from Europe, whether it's from anywhere, I'm held up to scrutiny, I'm searched, I'm questioned.
[25:39.090 --> 25:42.830]  And I said last time, I'm tired of this, I want to know what's going on.
[25:42.890 --> 25:44.650]  So I just started asking a lot of questions.
[25:44.710 --> 25:47.030]  I said, why are we doing this again?
[25:47.190 --> 25:47.610]  What is it?
[25:47.650 --> 25:48.670]  What is it you're looking for?
[25:48.970 --> 25:50.930]  Why am I being subjected to this kind of scrutiny?
[25:51.130 --> 25:56.410]  And the guy said, this is very interesting, he said to me, it's the same thing as always.
[25:57.210 --> 25:58.590]  The same thing as always.
[25:58.790 --> 26:00.230]  And I was like, what does that mean?
[26:00.370 --> 26:01.330]  The same thing as always?
[26:01.550 --> 26:01.910]  What?
[26:02.210 --> 26:04.310]  What is it that you have on me?
[26:04.390 --> 26:05.690]  What do you think you have on me?
[26:05.830 --> 26:09.230]  He wouldn't say another word, basically brought me into a room.
[26:09.310 --> 26:11.210]  It's sort of like a courthouse type of a room.
[26:12.190 --> 26:14.990]  I went in there last time, last time I came into the country.
[26:14.990 --> 26:16.270]  I was the only one in there.
[26:16.490 --> 26:19.850]  They just basically wrote down a lot of things and let me go.
[26:20.010 --> 26:21.510]  This time it was filled with people.
[26:22.130 --> 26:26.430]  I was one of, I think, either two or three white people.
[26:26.530 --> 26:27.350]  Everybody else was black.
[26:28.890 --> 26:32.870]  And that doesn't surprise me at all because of the way that they profile people.
[26:34.110 --> 26:35.950]  But I was the only one that had an attitude.
[26:36.290 --> 26:38.370]  I wasn't being a bastard about it.
[26:38.410 --> 26:39.030]  I wasn't being rude.
[26:39.150 --> 26:40.770]  I was just, why am I here?
[26:40.890 --> 26:42.310]  Why has this always happened to me?
[26:42.430 --> 26:44.210]  Will somebody please answer my questions?
[26:44.550 --> 26:47.790]  And I waited patiently until I was called up.
[26:47.830 --> 26:50.810]  And it took about maybe another half hour for me to get called.
[26:51.370 --> 26:55.130]  And the guy behind the desk was nice enough.
[26:55.130 --> 27:02.750]  He gave me a little piece of paper and said, okay, you need to go to this website and tell them that you want to know why you keep getting selected.
[27:03.250 --> 27:04.550]  I can't tell you.
[27:04.830 --> 27:06.470]  It's on his screen, but he's not allowed to tell me.
[27:06.650 --> 27:09.570]  I insisted that the, that I speak to the supervisor as well.
[27:09.710 --> 27:12.090]  And she told me the exact same thing, word forward.
[27:13.830 --> 27:17.290]  Basically, I just was, had everything searched all over again after that.
[27:17.390 --> 27:22.490]  Went to another lane and had all my baggage torn apart yet again.
[27:22.650 --> 27:25.530]  What I want to know is, what I want to know, I'm coming into the country.
[27:25.830 --> 27:26.810]  I'm already here.
[27:26.990 --> 27:28.930]  I've already been, been scrutinized.
[27:29.050 --> 27:32.670]  What could I be bringing in that, that, that concerns them so much?
[27:32.890 --> 27:35.370]  One of the, one of the guys asked me, is there anything sharp in here?
[27:35.590 --> 27:37.610]  And I said, I've just been on an airplane.
[27:37.770 --> 27:39.430]  They don't allow sharp objects.
[27:39.810 --> 27:42.750]  You know, I just wanted to make them realize how stupid they were.
[27:43.170 --> 27:44.410]  Well, I have two comments.
[27:44.550 --> 27:45.890]  One, I don't think so.
[27:45.970 --> 27:47.710]  So I think you're dealing with two different organizations.
[27:47.710 --> 27:52.970]  So you're dealing with the airport security in Prague and you're dealing with, I assume, customs in New York.
[27:53.110 --> 27:57.370]  So, so there's no real reason for the people in Prague to communicate anything to the customs officials.
[27:57.670 --> 28:01.690]  But somebody told the airport officials in Prague that I had four S's in my recording.
[28:01.690 --> 28:02.230]  No, I agree with you.
[28:02.530 --> 28:04.250]  That was not just a random thing.
[28:04.330 --> 28:05.370]  That was a targeted thing.
[28:05.450 --> 28:09.990]  I mean, there's no, there's, there's nothing to tell the customs people, oh, you know, they already searched your luggage.
[28:10.190 --> 28:12.490]  Secondly, the customs people are probably looking for other things.
[28:12.650 --> 28:14.290]  They're, they're not a security thing.
[28:14.410 --> 28:17.710]  They're looking to see if things that are not supposed to be brought into the country are brought into the country.
[28:18.430 --> 28:28.910]  And with regards to the sharp thing, sorry, I'm playing devil's advocate here, but with regards to the sharp thing, That's just a safety question that people usually ask before they search stuff because if you have... I mean... Right, but I did just get off an airplane.
[28:29.110 --> 28:32.030]  I understand, but you know... But you can have like nail clippers in there.
[28:32.110 --> 28:33.070]  I think those are allowed, right?
[28:33.290 --> 28:33.790]  I guess.
[28:33.930 --> 28:34.410]  Things like that.
[28:34.550 --> 28:36.430]  So it's just a... I mean, that's just a safety thing.
[28:36.470 --> 28:37.590]  I don't think he was trying to be a jerk.
[28:37.810 --> 28:38.410]  Well, yeah.
[28:38.530 --> 28:39.490]  Okay, I think it just comes naturally.
[28:39.610 --> 28:39.890]  Voltaire?
[28:39.950 --> 28:45.730]  You should try conversing with the people that are also in the waiting room to see why they might suspect that.
[28:45.730 --> 28:50.530]  They were... Yeah, you know, I did try a little bit of that, but they were kind of scared.
[28:51.030 --> 28:52.410]  And in fact, I was the only one.
[28:52.410 --> 28:54.210]  Like I said, that had any kind of attitude whatsoever.
[28:54.610 --> 29:00.550]  Everybody else was very introverted and just basically doing whatever they were told without any kind of question.
[29:00.850 --> 29:02.330]  And it was really sad to see that.
[29:02.410 --> 29:11.310]  So I find myself in a unique position where I'm being targeted this way and I can speak out about it and share these situations and circumstances.
[29:11.510 --> 29:13.910]  Well, I think two things that would be good to do.
[29:13.990 --> 29:15.990]  One, I assume you're going to go to that website.
[29:16.150 --> 29:18.190]  As soon as I get power back, I will go to that website.
[29:18.190 --> 29:22.130]  Could you give the website out on the air so that people can...
[29:22.130 --> 29:26.110]  You know, because apparently, I mean, it's taken you this long to just get this website.
[29:26.390 --> 29:30.730]  So there might be other people who are targeted in a similar fashion who don't know about it.
[29:30.850 --> 29:31.430]  So, you know.
[29:31.570 --> 29:33.870]  I do have a card that has the information on it.
[29:33.910 --> 29:36.150]  I will read the entire thing as soon as I figure out where I put it.
[29:36.210 --> 29:36.990]  But somewhere in my luggage.
[29:37.250 --> 29:39.890]  Emmanuel, while you're looking, I can tell you why you keep getting searched.
[29:39.990 --> 29:40.450]  Okay, go ahead.
[29:40.530 --> 29:40.970]  Tell me, please.
[29:41.150 --> 29:42.450]  It's because of the secret law.
[29:48.190 --> 29:49.630]  This is not a joke.
[29:49.730 --> 30:01.030]  This is the secret law that John Gilmore tried to fight all the way up to the Supreme Court to challenge the existence of a secret law that allows these unconstitutional searches and seizures.
[30:02.190 --> 30:08.270]  But the federal judiciary decided that the secret law shall remain secret.
[30:08.650 --> 30:11.590]  And presumably, that's why you keep getting searched.
[30:11.590 --> 30:20.590]  In John Gilmore's case, though, John Gilmore was challenging a policy that had the TSA asking for ID for domestic flights, correct?
[30:20.830 --> 30:23.330]  Yes, but there's a secret law that requires...
[30:23.330 --> 30:27.730]  There's a secret law that requires that.
[30:27.910 --> 30:29.830]  Right, but he drew first blood.
[30:29.830 --> 30:33.190]  He went to them and said, I'm challenging you.
[30:33.330 --> 30:34.830]  I've never challenged them.
[30:34.930 --> 30:36.850]  I've just tried to travel freely.
[30:36.850 --> 30:42.470]  And I'd love to share stories, but it's a different kind of situation.
[30:42.670 --> 30:44.250]  The point is, our government has secret laws.
[30:44.410 --> 30:44.710]  Oh, I know.
[30:44.850 --> 30:45.070]  I know.
[30:45.070 --> 30:49.750]  Our government has secret laws that we apparently have to comply with, but they won't tell us what they are.
[30:49.750 --> 30:51.590]  And they have secret rooms, too, at JFK Airport.
[30:51.690 --> 30:52.610]  And I know where they are now.
[30:52.690 --> 30:54.250]  There wasn't a very good idea showing me that.
[30:54.510 --> 30:59.190]  So if this website actually tells you anything, you'll be the first person in history to learn anything from it.
[30:59.430 --> 31:02.590]  Other people who've been in similar situations go to this website.
[31:02.590 --> 31:05.890]  And I assume it's the same one that you're being pointed to.
[31:06.910 --> 31:12.550]  And what you can do is, if you're not the person they're looking for, you just share the name as someone suspicious.
[31:12.550 --> 31:15.930]  Then you can, like, do something so that they'll stop harassing you.
[31:15.990 --> 31:20.090]  But if you actually are the person they're looking for, then they just are like, oh, sorry.
[31:20.350 --> 31:23.270]  I really am curious what it's all about because...
[31:23.270 --> 31:24.110]  They're not going to tell you.
[31:24.230 --> 31:24.590]  Years ago.
[31:24.690 --> 31:26.330]  Well, they swore they would.
[31:26.450 --> 31:28.450]  So if they don't, I'm going to be pursuing this.
[31:28.450 --> 31:36.010]  The guy at the desk may honestly believe that this website can help you or because someone told them, yeah, send obnoxious people to this website.
[31:36.010 --> 31:39.190]  But no one that I'm aware of has ever been helped by these websites.
[31:39.370 --> 31:39.570]  Right.
[31:39.690 --> 31:42.470]  Well, I mean, maybe they haven't been given this particular card.
[31:42.550 --> 31:45.990]  You know, when you go into the country, you get a little blue card to fill out for immigration.
[31:46.590 --> 31:47.730]  This was a green card.
[31:48.030 --> 31:50.890]  Not a green card, green card, but it had green ink on it.
[31:50.950 --> 31:51.390]  So it's different.
[31:51.910 --> 31:54.330]  I just think maybe I'm finally finding an answer.
[31:54.330 --> 32:00.790]  Have you considered filing a Freedom of Information Act to find out what kind of records the government has regarding you?
[32:01.110 --> 32:01.430]  Yeah.
[32:01.430 --> 32:03.910]  That might turn up the reason that you're...
[32:03.910 --> 32:05.250]  It may not, but it may.
[32:05.530 --> 32:10.330]  I've always been very suspicious of asking the people who have secrets on you what secrets they have on you.
[32:10.390 --> 32:11.090]  But I will do that.
[32:11.190 --> 32:19.870]  I will do that if this turns out to be a dead end because every day I think I should be asking somebody questions and harassing somebody to find out the truth here.
[32:19.970 --> 32:22.590]  I'll even visit them when I'm not traveling to find out what's going on.
[32:23.130 --> 32:25.410]  And it's just... it's really silly and insane.
[32:25.690 --> 32:28.950]  Also, I should point out, this was one of the few times that I traveled with my American passport.
[32:29.110 --> 32:35.330]  The reason I did that was because we had gone to Belarus and that requires a visa and I used my American passport to get the visa.
[32:35.450 --> 32:42.490]  So I didn't want to confuse anybody over there by becoming European at one point and then American at the next border crossing.
[32:42.490 --> 32:53.830]  So I stayed American and that was my big mistake because what happened was I wound up showing that passport when I was leaving and apparently that triggered an alarm someplace.
[32:54.050 --> 32:56.030]  And it did trigger an alarm and that's what I'm trying to figure out.
[32:56.490 --> 33:01.990]  Yes, there are two different agencies at work, but I think the same suspicions are at play here.
[33:01.990 --> 33:05.610]  And when I used that passport, those S's printed out and I was targeted.
[33:05.850 --> 33:11.730]  Which is weird because, you know, if I was as suspicious as I think I was, you know, now I know that.
[33:11.910 --> 33:18.790]  And it's really easy for me to just go and organize in a different way, whatever nefarious scheme I'm up to.
[33:18.950 --> 33:19.350]  Emmanuel.
[33:19.350 --> 33:19.970]  Go ahead, Barney.
[33:20.850 --> 33:34.170]  If you are interested in filing a Freedom of Information Act request to find out what they have on you, it would be good to refer to the archives of the next hope, which was last July.
[33:34.430 --> 33:40.030]  We did a very excellent panel presentation on filing Freedom of Information Act requests.
[33:40.210 --> 33:40.690]  Yes.
[33:40.790 --> 33:45.190]  Now, I know we have a lot of really good talks involved in doing just that.
[33:45.290 --> 33:46.650]  But you bring up the next hope.
[33:46.650 --> 33:59.670]  You know, I think things have stepped up quite a bit since then, since we hung out with Julian Assange, since the whole WikiLeaks thing happened, since various other kind of controversial people have crossed.
[33:59.870 --> 34:04.490]  I mean, Kyle and I met Jacob Appelbaum in Iceland randomly at an airport.
[34:04.870 --> 34:08.310]  And I'm sure the authorities didn't find that to be very funny, but it really was a coincidence.
[34:09.110 --> 34:11.350]  Things like that, they tend to get you on lists.
[34:11.370 --> 34:15.150]  And I think that's maybe the reason why this is happening more and more.
[34:15.150 --> 34:17.050]  But again, I want to hear it from them.
[34:17.450 --> 34:17.490]  Mike?
[34:17.670 --> 34:26.850]  So the law you want is not a Freedom of Information Act, it's the Privacy Act, which allows you to request the records that the government holds on you, rather than just like contracts and stuff.
[34:27.310 --> 34:36.050]  But the Customs and Border Patrol people assert that the systems that they use to let people in the country are exempt from the Privacy Act.
[34:36.310 --> 34:39.770]  This doesn't appear to have any basis in law, but they keep winning court cases anyway.
[34:39.770 --> 34:45.350]  And people wonder why hackers go and take the information from computer systems that are left around.
[34:45.750 --> 34:47.230]  Because the government won't help you.
[34:47.330 --> 34:48.150]  They won't tell you the truth.
[34:48.270 --> 34:49.650]  They won't let you know what's going on.
[34:49.730 --> 34:49.870]  Kyle?
[34:49.870 --> 35:02.550]  I really think that you should be able to clear your name as a public citizen, as someone who runs a business, who's a bit of a personality with radio and editing a magazine.
[35:02.690 --> 35:09.450]  It's just, I feel it's unfair for you to have to deal with this continuously, like ongoing.
[35:09.670 --> 35:10.830]  It never seems to stop.
[35:10.830 --> 35:25.750]  I mean, as a young man myself, I can't fathom in a couple years after maybe having said something or taken a photo of something to not be able to travel freely.
[35:25.750 --> 35:31.910]  And then not be able to clear my name after I find out that I'm a suspicious person.
[35:32.030 --> 35:33.470]  And this is not being able to travel freely.
[35:33.610 --> 35:39.930]  This really is harassment and it makes you dread going anywhere and certainly coming back.
[35:39.930 --> 35:45.810]  Well, I'm not suggesting that this is the right thing, but what about, you know, there are those kind of traveler's programs.
[35:46.270 --> 35:49.870]  I don't know if they apply to you because maybe you don't travel enough, but...
[35:49.870 --> 35:50.310]  No, I travel too much.
[35:50.310 --> 35:57.930]  And I don't know how much that costs either, but there are kind of commercial ways for people who are usually, you know, to get through screening faster.
[35:57.930 --> 35:58.450]  I don't know.
[35:58.750 --> 36:03.790]  But those programs, there's even less recourse available to you to actually get the information out of those.
[36:03.850 --> 36:04.870]  You have no idea what they know.
[36:05.010 --> 36:05.970]  And that seems...
[36:05.970 --> 36:08.830]  And plus, we've seen a couple of those go under already.
[36:08.830 --> 36:10.430]  And where did that information go?
[36:10.570 --> 36:12.010]  Like, that gets a little bit questionable.
[36:12.290 --> 36:14.830]  If you're actually on the list, you can't join those programs.
[36:14.970 --> 36:15.190]  Oh, yeah?
[36:15.350 --> 36:15.530]  Yeah.
[36:15.670 --> 36:18.890]  I mean, that's the point of the program is to demonstrate you're not on the list.
[36:19.090 --> 36:19.230]  Exactly.
[36:19.450 --> 36:20.410]  Oh, there is a...
[36:20.410 --> 36:31.250]  I wanted to point out that there was a news story that came out a few days ago that WikiLeaks had apparently leaked a copy of the U.S.'s no-fly list to some news organization.
[36:31.250 --> 36:32.410]  It might have been the Guardian.
[36:32.410 --> 36:33.250]  I could be mistaken.
[36:33.450 --> 36:35.310]  I'm not looking at the news piece right now.
[36:35.630 --> 36:42.230]  But they supposedly or reportedly destroyed it because they thought that would harm the U.S.'s national security.
[36:42.410 --> 36:48.530]  But I thought it was interesting that WikiLeaks reportedly leaked a copy of the no-fly list.
[36:48.530 --> 36:51.410]  Well, it's not like they can't leak it again to somebody else that won't destroy it.
[36:51.510 --> 36:51.870]  Exactly.
[36:52.130 --> 36:55.970]  So hopefully they'll do that and we can find out who's actually on that list.
[36:56.010 --> 36:56.230]  Voltaire?
[36:56.350 --> 37:01.030]  Supposedly they don't have it anymore because Daniel Dershmann-Schmidt destroyed it.
[37:01.550 --> 37:01.850]  Uh-huh.
[37:01.970 --> 37:02.470]  Dump-shade ring.
[37:02.730 --> 37:02.950]  What?
[37:03.010 --> 37:04.690]  The guy that runs OpenLeaks.
[37:04.770 --> 37:04.890]  Yeah.
[37:04.890 --> 37:06.130]  He destroyed it when?
[37:06.410 --> 37:07.170]  Not recently.
[37:07.330 --> 37:08.750]  He hasn't been with WikiLeaks in a while.
[37:08.850 --> 37:13.030]  Yeah, he has the encrypted files and he destroyed the keys to them or something.
[37:13.490 --> 37:13.870]  All right.
[37:13.970 --> 37:15.430]  Well, make sure you know the facts about this.
[37:15.430 --> 37:22.570]  There's so much silly drama and accusations being passed both back and forth and I wish both of them would get around to leaking more things.
[37:22.790 --> 37:23.850]  Yeah, that's what it's all about.
[37:23.970 --> 37:24.210]  Leaking.
[37:24.410 --> 37:25.310]  We need more leaks.
[37:26.090 --> 37:26.410]  All right.
[37:26.710 --> 37:27.830]  Shall we take some phone calls?
[37:28.050 --> 37:30.890]  I don't want to talk about my problems all the time, although I certainly could.
[37:31.030 --> 37:34.670]  That's a shame because I wanted to ask you about grand jury duty because I just got called for it as well.
[37:35.310 --> 37:38.210]  Well, I got out of grand jury duty not by trying to get out of it.
[37:38.270 --> 37:38.650]  I just...
[37:38.650 --> 37:39.610]  My name didn't get picked.
[37:39.810 --> 37:40.050]  Yeah.
[37:40.070 --> 37:41.290]  I came very, very close.
[37:41.330 --> 37:45.230]  I'm guessing I'm probably just going to be like, I'm a social scientist and they'll be like, go away.
[37:45.750 --> 37:50.590]  Well, okay, so you haven't gone to the point where, okay, basically they do pick a lot of people.
[37:50.710 --> 37:55.070]  I think they pick something like 96 people from the room, but there's a room of about 300 people.
[37:56.130 --> 37:56.350]  So...
[37:56.350 --> 37:57.470]  Guston, you also have a PhD?
[37:57.950 --> 37:58.150]  Yeah.
[37:58.330 --> 37:58.770]  Yeah, they don't like...
[37:58.770 --> 37:59.150]  I've got it.
[37:59.170 --> 37:59.810]  Yeah, they don't like...
[37:59.810 --> 38:03.650]  I should just walk in the first day and be like, I have a doctorate and just have them be like, okay, you're gone.
[38:04.150 --> 38:05.230]  I hang out with activists.
[38:05.370 --> 38:05.750]  You're gone.
[38:05.850 --> 38:06.030]  Go away.
[38:06.030 --> 38:09.510]  Yeah, there is no questioning period for grand jury prospects.
[38:09.690 --> 38:09.850]  No.
[38:09.910 --> 38:10.910]  It's completely random.
[38:11.190 --> 38:11.810]  They're not...
[38:11.810 --> 38:12.910]  It's not like regular jury.
[38:13.090 --> 38:14.370]  No, you'll just get...
[38:14.370 --> 38:15.250]  You can postpone it.
[38:15.250 --> 38:16.950]  You can postpone it once or twice, but...
[38:16.950 --> 38:18.730]  Oh, I postponed it a couple days, but this is actually a pretty good time for me.
[38:18.730 --> 38:20.590]  Yeah, I would try it.
[38:20.650 --> 38:25.990]  Do I need to go in there and be like, hey, I'm kind of angry at the police right now because a woman was raped by a cop in my neighborhood, so like...
[38:25.990 --> 38:38.790]  They're not going to ask you that, but what you can do is gum up the works quite a bit every time they come to you and say, we want to indict this person, ask a lot of questions, and just make sure that the person really looks like they deserve to be indicted.
[38:38.990 --> 38:39.670]  And if...
[38:39.670 --> 38:41.870]  You can affect the system being a grand jurist.
[38:41.870 --> 38:44.250]  What was the runaway grand jury thing, too, that you mentioned?
[38:44.250 --> 38:44.950]  Yeah, that was really cool.
[38:45.110 --> 38:45.550]  Say that again.
[38:45.710 --> 38:46.150]  Wait, what happened?
[38:46.770 --> 38:49.450]  The indicting a ham sandwich thing or subpoenaing a ham sandwich?
[38:49.470 --> 38:49.910]  How did that go?
[38:50.610 --> 38:50.910]  Yeah.
[38:51.190 --> 38:53.550]  Or no, the ones where you go and do an inquiry about something else.
[38:53.550 --> 39:03.110]  I was going to try and actually subpoena a ham sandwich, but I don't think I really had that much power to go and launch my own investigations, but the grand jury as a whole can do that.
[39:03.370 --> 39:06.890]  I don't think a lone juror can do that, but I don't know.
[39:06.970 --> 39:10.490]  I never got to be on it, and I won't be asked again for another eight years at least.
[39:11.210 --> 39:13.030]  And then it might just be regular jury duty.
[39:13.170 --> 39:13.930]  It might be, yeah.
[39:14.050 --> 39:14.930]  It doesn't happen very often.
[39:15.110 --> 39:17.110]  So, Gus, I would say go for this.
[39:17.310 --> 39:19.570]  It could be an experience well worth remembering.
[39:20.790 --> 39:23.110]  212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[39:23.130 --> 39:24.450]  Anybody else have any experiences?
[39:24.590 --> 39:25.890]  Things happened to them while they were traveling?
[39:26.010 --> 39:29.830]  Or, Rob, while you were here, Voltaire, you were here in the States.
[39:30.390 --> 39:31.890]  Any hurricane stories, maybe?
[39:32.090 --> 39:33.470]  We did a Hurricane Irene just happen.
[39:33.570 --> 39:39.550]  I always love when you guys come back from traveling because you come back with the most awesome stories that makes me terrified to ever start traveling.
[39:39.750 --> 39:47.570]  But, you know, I guess today I had to take a subway down here to the studio from Midtown, and it was kind of a rough ride.
[39:47.570 --> 39:48.830]  And so...
[39:50.970 --> 39:52.590]  Well, I'm glad that's over.
[39:52.590 --> 39:53.750]  Are the subways running again?
[39:54.470 --> 39:55.510]  Yeah, they...
[39:55.510 --> 39:55.770]  All right.
[39:55.990 --> 39:57.510]  Mike Castleman takes bikes.
[39:57.750 --> 39:58.590]  Well, here's the thing.
[39:58.810 --> 40:02.270]  They basically shut off the subway.
[40:02.410 --> 40:12.450]  They shut off the MTA, Long Island Railroad, New Jersey Transit, Path Trains, Metro North, shut them all down for, I guess, starting Saturday at around noon until sometime Monday.
[40:13.230 --> 40:17.950]  And it was interesting just to see everybody just have to not rely on mass transit.
[40:18.170 --> 40:22.270]  Yeah, the Newark cab company, whichever one I took, made a pretty penny off of me on Monday.
[40:22.490 --> 40:23.850]  I didn't really have much of a choice, though.
[40:24.090 --> 40:27.710]  I went to the air train and I said, you know, how do I...
[40:27.710 --> 40:29.670]  Which way do I take it to the NJ Transit?
[40:29.690 --> 40:30.150]  Well, the air train is automated.
[40:30.310 --> 40:30.910]  Did that even work?
[40:30.990 --> 40:31.910]  No, but there's a person there.
[40:31.950 --> 40:34.430]  And I said, well, how do I go to the NJ Transit?
[40:34.550 --> 40:35.090]  And they said, nope.
[40:36.510 --> 40:36.830]  Sorry.
[40:37.390 --> 40:40.310]  So the alternate route is, I assume, the buses were running again.
[40:40.490 --> 40:43.850]  You could take a bus to Newark and then the path, but that takes like six hours.
[40:44.070 --> 40:45.890]  I think buses weren't running in my neighborhood.
[40:46.050 --> 40:51.270]  And for those of you not in town, like, it's really, really strange when there's no transit in New York.
[40:51.370 --> 40:54.090]  Like, it's like your heartbeat's stopping or something.
[40:54.090 --> 41:03.650]  Let me tell you what's strange and what's great is when you have no power and you just hear the sound of the night and things are dark and you wake up early and you go to sleep early.
[41:03.650 --> 41:07.350]  And it's just kind of going back to an old time that you never really lived in.
[41:08.190 --> 41:09.150]  But it's different.
[41:09.310 --> 41:11.710]  And I know there are people listening to us now that have no power.
[41:12.210 --> 41:14.010]  And it's a, you know, it can be a pain in the ass.
[41:14.050 --> 41:14.470]  I know that.
[41:14.610 --> 41:18.670]  But it can also be something you remember for the rest of your life that's somewhat pleasant.
[41:18.790 --> 41:22.350]  At least in this case, when the transit shut down, you didn't really have anywhere to go.
[41:22.490 --> 41:24.510]  When it shut down, what was it, six, seven years ago?
[41:24.650 --> 41:27.030]  That was, that was tarot for like a week or something.
[41:27.210 --> 41:28.650]  And you just couldn't go anywhere.
[41:29.410 --> 41:34.490]  Well, you know, you can always just go around the block in your own neighborhood, learn what's local to you.
[41:34.570 --> 41:35.030]  Or bike.
[41:35.290 --> 41:35.690]  Or bike.
[41:36.470 --> 41:38.210]  Get stung by wasps and whatever.
[41:38.690 --> 41:40.150]  It goes with the territory.
[41:40.430 --> 41:44.590]  For our listeners from out of town, New York doesn't know how to shut down the transit system.
[41:44.590 --> 41:46.930]  It takes them eight hours because they're so bad at it.
[41:46.950 --> 41:49.990]  No, no, it takes them eight hours because it's a 24-hour system and it's huge.
[41:50.130 --> 41:51.050]  No other city has that.
[41:51.130 --> 41:52.990]  Right, exactly, because they're bad at shutting it down.
[41:53.070 --> 41:54.470]  They don't have a plan for shutting it down.
[41:54.470 --> 41:58.330]  Other transit systems can shut themselves down in 10 minutes because they do it every night.
[41:58.670 --> 41:59.690]  Exactly, okay, fine.
[41:59.790 --> 42:01.110]  But New York does have a plan.
[42:01.270 --> 42:05.730]  It just takes a long time because there are so many trains and it's a continuously moving machine.
[42:05.930 --> 42:06.550]  Yeah, it's kind of cool.
[42:06.670 --> 42:12.210]  I mean, it's this complicated system where you just can't get a handle on it that quickly, which is kind of awesome in a way, you know?
[42:12.810 --> 42:18.690]  I'm sorry, if that came across as anything other than praise for the transit system, then I misrepresent it myself.
[42:18.990 --> 42:20.190]  No, no, I totally got that.
[42:24.610 --> 42:27.150]  Bernie, Philadelphia, how did transit work down there?
[42:27.370 --> 42:38.630]  Well, our mass transit organization, SEPTA, the Southeast Pennsylvania Transit Authority, it was, like the MTA, was also shut down from around noon Saturday until late Sunday.
[42:39.590 --> 42:45.110]  So we had no buses or light rail or even the regional rail.
[42:45.290 --> 42:48.730]  It was all completely shut down for more than 24 hours.
[42:48.810 --> 42:49.730]  And no airplanes, too.
[42:49.930 --> 42:50.890]  No airplanes in the sky.
[42:50.890 --> 43:00.630]  It was a similar situation, although Philadelphia is not as large a city as New York City, and people had other ways of getting around, but it was still interesting.
[43:00.890 --> 43:02.110]  You know, there were a lot more people biking.
[43:02.290 --> 43:03.030]  It was good to see that.
[43:03.970 --> 43:06.170]  And not worrying about being hit by buses.
[43:06.790 --> 43:10.030]  All right, 212-209-2900, let's take some phone calls.
[43:10.170 --> 43:11.990]  And good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
[43:12.370 --> 43:14.890]  Yes, about your travel woes...
[43:15.590 --> 43:18.010]  You know, I'm going to give you a chance here.
[43:18.010 --> 43:22.570]  You made our lives hell while I was away, and I'm going to do something about that at some point.
[43:22.650 --> 43:24.910]  But I'm going to give you 30 seconds to say something pertinent.
[43:25.090 --> 43:28.750]  I think it was September 4th, 2000, or September something, 2001.
[43:28.990 --> 43:30.330]  They did shut down the subways.
[43:30.690 --> 43:32.310]  This was 2001, 10 years ago.
[43:32.470 --> 43:33.930]  They did shut down the subways.
[43:34.170 --> 43:34.950]  But anyway...
[43:34.950 --> 43:35.870]  Well, no, they're not really.
[43:36.050 --> 43:40.590]  They shut down the subways for a couple of hours, and they started up again.
[43:41.130 --> 43:44.430]  The time you're looking for where they actually shut down subways is during a strike.
[43:44.650 --> 43:45.930]  That's when they actually shut them down.
[43:48.270 --> 44:04.390]  And now, the other thing, your travel things, that's a post-TWA 800 thing, because I remember back in 93, when I was coming back from Canada, in a car, they, you know, they looked at me suspicious because I came in one border and out the other, and then they,
[44:04.510 --> 44:17.230]  and the state police told me to, you know, they detained me and then, you know, checked me out and all the other, but then after TWA 800, then, after TWA 800, I guess, because I remember you mentioning all these...
[44:17.230 --> 44:19.550]  What does TWA Flight 800 have to do with this?
[44:19.710 --> 44:24.830]  Because remember, like, back in the early 90s, you keep complaining that you keep on getting searched and everything?
[44:25.050 --> 44:25.310]  Uh-huh.
[44:25.470 --> 44:28.330]  I was complaining about it back then, too, but it wasn't anything like it is now, but yes.
[44:28.330 --> 44:32.890]  Well, that's because of the post-TWA 800 security measures.
[44:33.150 --> 44:40.150]  Well, I don't know if that... I don't think they really added anything that would result in people being questioned more on that level.
[44:41.110 --> 44:45.930]  Trivia question, you know, Kyle was on Flight 800, TWA Flight 800 as a kid, right?
[44:46.050 --> 44:46.270]  Right?
[44:46.370 --> 44:49.270]  You were in France when Flight 800 crashed.
[44:49.470 --> 44:52.990]  Yeah, I was on that, probably the very same plane, like, a week before.
[44:53.270 --> 44:53.810]  It was not something.
[44:53.970 --> 44:54.170]  Yes.
[44:54.330 --> 44:58.190]  I think it's a mistake, though, to blame the increasing security on 9-11.
[44:58.330 --> 45:06.470]  Or TWA 800 or any other singular event, the trend has been for these entities to seize all the power they can, and they'll use any excuse available to do so.
[45:06.590 --> 45:06.710]  Right.
[45:06.810 --> 45:14.510]  And a number of us saw that writing on the wall as soon as 9-11 started happening, that they were going to grab more and more power and make us more and more afraid.
[45:14.510 --> 45:15.870]  And we were going to do it to ourselves, too.
[45:16.050 --> 45:17.290]  There's a lot of that going on.
[45:17.810 --> 45:18.770]  All right, let's take some phone calls.
[45:18.790 --> 45:19.110]  Good evening.
[45:19.250 --> 45:20.150]  You're on Off the Hook.
[45:21.130 --> 45:21.530]  Hi.
[45:21.550 --> 45:26.850]  I just wanted to make a quick comment about I was flying back from Toronto to Hartford.
[45:27.270 --> 45:27.630]  Okay.
[45:27.750 --> 45:29.910]  And I went through American Customs in Toronto.
[45:30.710 --> 45:31.790]  Yeah, you can do that.
[45:32.170 --> 45:34.370]  Yeah, I walked off the plane in Hartford, and nothing.
[45:34.430 --> 45:35.530]  Just pick up my bag and go.
[45:36.270 --> 45:36.490]  Uh-huh.
[45:36.710 --> 45:38.790]  Probably because you can't do it in Hartford, right?
[45:38.890 --> 45:40.150]  I don't think they have customs there.
[45:40.730 --> 45:46.730]  No, I think we actually, when we flew out of Hartford to Toronto, we went through customs on the other side when we landed.
[45:47.090 --> 45:47.370]  Uh-huh.
[45:48.310 --> 45:48.650]  Okay.
[45:48.810 --> 45:49.590]  Well, that was about it.
[45:49.690 --> 45:50.310]  That's all right.
[45:50.450 --> 45:52.210]  Thanks for that bit of information.
[45:52.570 --> 45:53.490]  Let's take another phone call.
[45:53.610 --> 45:53.950]  Good evening.
[45:54.010 --> 45:55.030]  You're on Off the Hook.
[45:56.770 --> 45:57.290]  Go ahead.
[45:57.410 --> 45:57.770]  Speak up.
[45:58.870 --> 45:59.370]  All right.
[45:59.450 --> 46:00.550]  Well, have fun listening to the radio.
[46:00.670 --> 46:00.930]  Good evening.
[46:01.090 --> 46:02.050]  You're on Off the Hook.
[46:02.110 --> 46:02.670]  Off the Hook.
[46:02.830 --> 46:02.930]  Sorry.
[46:04.290 --> 46:04.810]  How are you doing?
[46:04.890 --> 46:05.850]  This is Rob.
[46:05.990 --> 46:06.790]  Just a quick comment.
[46:06.930 --> 46:07.290]  Yes, go ahead.
[46:08.290 --> 46:08.910]  Two things.
[46:09.030 --> 46:10.690]  One, I work at Newark Airport.
[46:11.490 --> 46:15.950]  Sunday night, it was airy to have not any aircraft on the airport whatsoever.
[46:16.370 --> 46:16.990]  Yeah, I can imagine.
[46:17.850 --> 46:18.710]  Went to work.
[46:19.690 --> 46:21.010]  It felt weird.
[46:21.150 --> 46:21.570]  Looked around.
[46:21.770 --> 46:23.390]  Not one aircraft anywhere.
[46:23.390 --> 46:24.150]  Not at the gate.
[46:24.270 --> 46:25.230]  It was totally empty.
[46:25.410 --> 46:27.290]  So, may I ask, why did you go to work?
[46:28.530 --> 46:31.450]  Well, we still have to do... move items.
[46:31.610 --> 46:38.290]  Like, if Austin or Pittsburgh needs parts, we have to ship them out that way via truck.
[46:38.470 --> 46:38.790]  Uh-huh.
[46:39.430 --> 46:39.750]  Okay.
[46:39.970 --> 46:43.250]  So, we still have a 24-hour operation we have to run.
[46:43.630 --> 46:50.170]  And then, on another note, while they asked for sharp objects in the bag, they don't know if the bag was checked or carry-on.
[46:50.230 --> 46:52.650]  You can't have sharp objects in the carry-on, but you can check them.
[46:52.650 --> 46:59.090]  Well, actually, they did know because I hadn't yet been even to the gate, you know, where the baggage carousel was.
[46:59.210 --> 47:00.830]  They were on me before then.
[47:01.290 --> 47:02.750]  But, yeah, point taken.
[47:02.750 --> 47:11.310]  I mean, I know why they're asking, but, you know, I was just tired of being nice and polite and subservient, and I was going to start talking back, you know.
[47:12.530 --> 47:12.890]  Understandable.
[47:13.070 --> 47:24.630]  And if you want to know a little bit more about Flight 800, maybe we can get on email because I went inside some 747 fuel tank to see what might have happened and kind of got a handle on what happened to that aircraft.
[47:24.930 --> 47:25.170]  Wow.
[47:25.390 --> 47:28.130]  Well, write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[47:28.130 --> 47:30.650]  We'd love to carry on a chat about that.
[47:30.710 --> 47:30.870]  Gus?
[47:30.990 --> 47:39.630]  The point about things sort of moving around, even when flights aren't going through, reminds me of a blizzard that I went through down in the Appalachians earlier this year.
[47:40.170 --> 47:54.290]  And I was trying to get on a flight, and all the other airports except for Asheville had closed down, and I knew that, but Asheville looked like it was working, and we come up to the time of my flight, and there isn't the sort of usual, like the crew was not there at the desk,
[47:54.330 --> 47:55.170]  and that seemed sort of weird.
[47:55.430 --> 48:00.850]  And then all of a sudden there were a couple people from the airport sort of moving around, and they were clearly saying to each other, we have no crew.
[48:01.110 --> 48:08.450]  We have the airplane, but we have no crew because all of the other crews needed to come in from the other airports in the area, and there hadn't been any flights in from those other ones.
[48:08.450 --> 48:11.590]  And so this airport was more or less ready to go, but they didn't have the people they needed.
[48:11.690 --> 48:18.210]  So that was sort of interesting to think about, like, the system as moving one crew of people from one place to another and that being, you know, the necessary thing.
[48:18.290 --> 48:22.790]  And one node on this network being, you know, taken down by all the other ones being taken down.
[48:23.050 --> 48:27.690]  And that's when they get down on the PA system and ask, does anyone around here know how to fly an airplane?
[48:28.830 --> 48:34.190]  One thing I just remembered, and you might want to look this up, the CCC camp that we went to actually went to a talk there.
[48:34.190 --> 48:37.870]  It was about customs and all that and coming into the U.S.
[48:38.590 --> 48:39.590]  Maybe you might...
[48:39.590 --> 48:43.390]  I mean, I think it was about kind of what your rights are and also what to do in terms of data.
[48:43.650 --> 48:48.910]  Basically, if they want to look at your hard drive, they have the right to do that or the ability or whatever by the law.
[48:49.490 --> 48:51.530]  But it was an interesting talk, so you might want to look it up.
[48:51.690 --> 48:52.670]  It was by the EFF, I think.
[48:52.750 --> 48:54.550]  Yeah, Seth Schoen from the EFF gave the talk.
[48:55.030 --> 48:55.290]  Okay.
[48:55.510 --> 48:57.730]  Yeah, and that's something all our listeners should look into as well.
[48:57.850 --> 49:03.410]  Yeah, I mean, it covered, you know, basically how to deal with a customs agent, what kind of your rights are.
[49:03.410 --> 49:06.550]  I didn't realize it's actually a felony to lie to them.
[49:07.670 --> 49:09.390]  I told them to have a nice day.
[49:09.710 --> 49:09.870]  Yeah.
[49:10.470 --> 49:14.030]  Did not mean it at all, and oh boy, I'm in trouble now.
[49:14.650 --> 49:18.270]  So, yeah, so it's a good talk if you're planning on coming to the U.S.
[49:18.330 --> 49:19.370]  Well, here's something interesting.
[49:19.470 --> 49:27.950]  Here's something interesting that all the times I've been searched, and it's probably a couple of dozen times now, not once, not once have they asked to look at my laptop.
[49:28.090 --> 49:30.350]  Not once have they asked to investigate my hard drive.
[49:30.530 --> 49:30.670]  Yeah.
[49:30.670 --> 49:33.690]  Not interested in that at all, interested only in the harassment.
[49:33.890 --> 49:33.910]  They can actually...
[49:33.910 --> 49:37.570]  Just interested in the harassment part and not actual results.
[49:37.710 --> 49:39.710]  They can actually confiscate it and not give it back to you.
[49:39.710 --> 49:40.390]  Of course, they can do it at all.
[49:40.390 --> 49:41.310]  And go send it off to...
[49:41.310 --> 49:48.770]  Because the thing is that the people, one of the things is that, you know, the customs people, they don't really have people on site who know how to, you know, decrypt hard drives and all that.
[49:48.850 --> 49:51.830]  So they'll send it off to another organization that does, like the FBI or whatever.
[49:51.830 --> 50:05.710]  One other thing that they have, and Bernie, I think you take a keen interest in this, and this is something that I noticed after being held there for so long, they have some kind of cell phone jammer because there is no signal whatsoever.
[50:05.710 --> 50:09.870]  I was trying to text people while I was being held, and there was simply no signal.
[50:09.930 --> 50:14.270]  The signal came back as soon as I went through the door into the United States.
[50:14.510 --> 50:14.950]  Interesting.
[50:14.950 --> 50:20.570]  Yeah, it's definitely interesting as far as what's legal and what's not legal.
[50:21.350 --> 50:31.090]  It would be good if somebody smart took a portable spectrum analyzer with them, the little handheld ones now, to see if there's actually jamming signals on the cellular and PCS bands.
[50:31.510 --> 50:34.850]  But, you know, you'd have to make yourself called into that room somehow.
[50:36.010 --> 50:39.770]  And they knew they had it, too, because I was texting people.
[50:39.770 --> 50:41.570]  I was waiting to be told not to do something.
[50:41.570 --> 50:45.510]  So I was texting, letting people know I was being held, and it just wasn't going through.
[50:45.650 --> 50:47.330]  So that's why I wasn't told to stop.
[50:47.610 --> 50:51.090]  They might just have a Faraday cage kind of surrounding the room, which would block the signal.
[50:51.230 --> 50:53.690]  But, I mean, it's cheaper and, you know, actually legal.
[50:53.870 --> 50:54.890]  You can do that.
[50:54.910 --> 50:59.730]  You can put, you know, mesh in the walls around the room, and that'll block your cell phone signal effectively.
[51:00.070 --> 51:02.370]  Bernie, those spectrum analyzers, how much do those run?
[51:02.450 --> 51:03.310]  It sounds like a fun toy.
[51:03.750 --> 51:04.790]  Well, they're not cheap.
[51:05.370 --> 51:10.690]  We're talking a few, a couple, at least a couple thousand dollars for a handheld one.
[51:11.710 --> 51:16.170]  Maybe hackerspaces could loan them out to travelers on a per, as-needed basis.
[51:16.430 --> 51:18.190]  You know, that might be a good service to offer.
[51:18.310 --> 51:18.970]  But I think Mark's right.
[51:18.970 --> 51:24.630]  It's more likely that they just really shielded the room well, because that way they wouldn't be in violation of federal law.
[51:24.710 --> 51:26.050]  But when has that stopped them before?
[51:26.190 --> 51:29.010]  Why would the feds care about being in violation of federal law?
[51:29.090 --> 51:31.910]  It's also just easier to do and cheaper.
[51:31.990 --> 51:33.510]  You don't have to be running some bit of equipment.
[51:33.690 --> 51:36.610]  And there's no danger of it leaking outside of the room, et cetera, et cetera.
[51:36.750 --> 51:38.250]  And are they not documented?
[51:38.250 --> 51:38.970]  Because you have to shield the room anyway.
[51:38.970 --> 51:41.530]  They're not documented cases of prisons doing the same thing.
[51:41.630 --> 51:44.230]  I think we talked about this a week or two ago.
[51:44.370 --> 51:44.470]  Well, no.
[51:44.850 --> 51:46.570]  Cell phones in prisons are a big problem, actually.
[51:46.590 --> 51:48.950]  Yeah, but as far as having jammers running.
[51:49.310 --> 51:50.130]  Yeah, I don't think they can jammers.
[51:50.130 --> 51:52.170]  They've tried, but the FCC won't let them.
[51:52.690 --> 51:53.290]  It's illegal.
[51:53.530 --> 51:55.030]  It doesn't necessarily mean they're not going to do it anyway.
[51:55.110 --> 51:55.230]  Okay.
[51:55.810 --> 51:56.810]  Let's take some phone calls.
[51:56.890 --> 51:58.270]  212-209-2900.
[51:58.550 --> 51:58.930]  Good evening.
[51:59.110 --> 51:59.810]  You're on off the hook.
[52:01.250 --> 52:02.570]  Yes, about the hurricane.
[52:02.870 --> 52:03.290]  No, no.
[52:03.430 --> 52:04.190]  No more, Rebel.
[52:04.190 --> 52:04.690]  No more.
[52:04.990 --> 52:10.710]  I'm, you know, between Homeland Security and you, you're one to an annoyance level right now.
[52:10.810 --> 52:11.070]  Good evening.
[52:11.210 --> 52:11.850]  You're on off the hook.
[52:11.990 --> 52:13.210]  Yeah, Tom from the Bronx here.
[52:13.350 --> 52:13.650]  How you doing?
[52:13.850 --> 52:20.750]  I like to say a lot of the subway cars were taken to where I live up in Bedford Park in the Bronx.
[52:20.950 --> 52:21.670]  To your house?
[52:21.670 --> 52:26.870]  Well, not the house, but I mean the big yard over here for the subways.
[52:27.090 --> 52:27.490]  Got it.
[52:28.630 --> 52:31.750]  By Jerome Avenue, they have a big subway yard.
[52:32.290 --> 52:43.210]  And they were taking them up here because they were worried for floods if they were going to get flooded, where they keep them in the low-lying areas.
[52:43.210 --> 52:49.690]  Because our area didn't get, wasn't in bad shape at all.
[52:49.990 --> 52:53.070]  And we're pretty insulated from the weather here.
[52:54.090 --> 52:54.270]  Uh-huh.
[52:54.470 --> 52:57.930]  Winter time, we get a lot of breezes because we're like hilly.
[52:59.910 --> 53:03.570]  But, but obvious, but actually it works pretty good.
[53:04.110 --> 53:12.510]  Anyway, if you want to get any traumas, try going to the movies up in Co-op City, Bay Plaza.
[53:13.150 --> 53:15.870]  They have the help going nuts over there.
[53:16.270 --> 53:18.610]  They're looking for terrorists constantly.
[53:19.030 --> 53:19.910]  What, in the movies?
[53:20.170 --> 53:20.690]  Yes.
[53:21.310 --> 53:24.530]  In other words, they're paying them to look for terrorists.
[53:25.270 --> 53:25.970]  Federal government.
[53:26.810 --> 53:27.250]  All right.
[53:27.270 --> 53:33.330]  And not only that, I'm a little Irish and Italian mixture of original origin only.
[53:33.930 --> 53:35.510]  You know, back in origin.
[53:35.950 --> 53:41.610]  I had a guy come up to me, not once, I used to go to the movies, you know, every so often.
[53:42.310 --> 53:44.650]  It's speaking Arabic to me.
[53:45.370 --> 53:47.450]  See if I was going to answer them in Arabic.
[53:47.870 --> 53:48.150]  Uh-huh.
[53:48.950 --> 53:49.690]  But they...
[53:49.690 --> 53:51.970]  Because you must have looked Arabic being half Irish and half Italian.
[53:52.210 --> 53:57.090]  Yeah, but they kept, they keep, they keep coming up, they kept coming over to me constantly.
[53:57.090 --> 54:03.730]  Unfortunately, I didn't even go to the movies anymore because I was going to tell them to take a big salami and do what with it?
[54:03.810 --> 54:07.390]  Well, you know, I think you should do just that, tell them that, that is.
[54:07.490 --> 54:13.690]  And I think anybody that gets approached or harassed in any way should challenge it and not simply accept it.
[54:13.810 --> 54:17.570]  But listen, we have to move on, but I want to thank you for that interesting story.
[54:17.570 --> 54:19.750]  And I'll certainly check out the movies at Co-op City.
[54:19.870 --> 54:21.730]  It sounds like a fun thing to do.
[54:22.170 --> 54:23.190]  Let's see who else is out there.
[54:23.250 --> 54:24.110]  Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
[54:24.990 --> 54:25.990]  Oh dear, okay.
[54:26.350 --> 54:27.010]  Let's try this one.
[54:27.050 --> 54:27.970]  Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
[54:29.110 --> 54:29.390]  Hello?
[54:29.610 --> 54:30.230]  Yeah, speak up, please.
[54:31.670 --> 54:32.290]  Hello, yeah.
[54:32.750 --> 54:33.530]  Yeah, what's on your mind?
[54:34.430 --> 54:37.390]  Yeah, the guy who was stung by a bee, was he wearing yellow?
[54:38.150 --> 54:40.750]  It was a wasp and he's not paying any attention right now.
[54:41.090 --> 54:42.690]  Oh, because...
[54:42.690 --> 54:43.070]  What stung me?
[54:43.070 --> 54:43.770]  They're drawn to yellow.
[54:43.810 --> 54:45.070]  I can't hear the caller anymore.
[54:45.090 --> 54:46.210]  That's right, you don't have headphones, do you?
[54:46.310 --> 54:47.270]  You came in here without headphones.
[54:47.610 --> 54:49.690]  He wanted to know if you were wearing yellow.
[54:49.850 --> 54:50.390]  I wasn't.
[54:50.390 --> 54:52.210]  I was just biking full speed.
[54:52.230 --> 54:54.210]  I basically ran into this insect.
[54:54.350 --> 54:56.290]  I think it might have been a bee, actually, because there was a stinger.
[54:56.390 --> 54:56.910]  I pulled it out.
[54:57.390 --> 54:58.290]  Yeah, because the...
[54:58.630 --> 55:03.910]  Yeah, they tend to go after people who are wearing yellow because they're drawn to yellow because that's how they find flowers.
[55:04.170 --> 55:06.490]  Yeah, no, it was in my path and I ran into it.
[55:06.630 --> 55:06.750]  Yeah.
[55:07.010 --> 55:07.590]  Yeah, that's what I...
[55:07.590 --> 55:08.610]  Typical bicepist.
[55:08.750 --> 55:09.790]  I didn't appreciate that.
[55:10.270 --> 55:12.150]  Actually, I raise honeybees.
[55:12.270 --> 55:13.930]  I had my honeybee hive open yesterday.
[55:14.070 --> 55:14.330]  Wait a minute.
[55:14.430 --> 55:15.530]  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[55:15.790 --> 55:17.030]  Bernie, you raise honeybees?
[55:17.030 --> 55:17.830]  I raise honeybees.
[55:17.830 --> 55:20.090]  Yes, I have a hive of 10,000 bees in my backyard.
[55:20.110 --> 55:21.490]  Okay, you know, I think you just...
[55:21.490 --> 55:23.270]  I had it open yesterday.
[55:23.450 --> 55:24.250]  You don't have a backyard.
[55:24.790 --> 55:26.510]  They go after darker colors.
[55:26.770 --> 55:29.890]  Actually, bees see in ultraviolet.
[55:29.970 --> 55:32.130]  They don't see in, you know, normal visible colors.
[55:32.870 --> 55:33.470]  You can take...
[55:33.470 --> 55:34.630]  Hey, Kyle, you should do this.
[55:34.710 --> 55:38.530]  Take pictures of flowers with some UV film and you'll see some amazing patterns.
[55:38.870 --> 55:41.230]  Bernie, how come you've never brought me any honey from your hive?
[55:41.230 --> 55:43.170]  Well, come on down to Philadelphia, you know.
[55:43.170 --> 55:48.490]  Every story you tell is now something we're going to have to double check on your bees in your backyard.
[55:48.690 --> 55:49.430]  Keep it up, Bernie.
[55:49.570 --> 55:50.050]  Keep it up.
[55:50.170 --> 55:51.810]  Ladies and gentlemen, the bee hacking show.
[55:51.950 --> 55:52.410]  Yeah, really.
[55:52.730 --> 55:58.950]  The spiders actually weave yellow strands into their webs to try to attract bees, trap them.
[55:59.090 --> 56:00.450]  They're very clever, those spiders.
[56:00.610 --> 56:03.810]  Thanks for the nature moment there.
[56:03.950 --> 56:06.310]  And let's try and get some more calls.
[56:06.410 --> 56:06.670]  Good evening.
[56:06.690 --> 56:07.810]  You're on Off the Hook?
[56:07.810 --> 56:13.710]  You know, the speakerphone might not be the best solution here.
[56:13.950 --> 56:16.290]  Let's try holding the phone next to our ears in the future.
[56:16.370 --> 56:16.590]  Good evening.
[56:16.750 --> 56:17.310]  You're on Off the Hook.
[56:18.030 --> 56:20.510]  Hi, I'm calling about facial recognition software.
[56:20.890 --> 56:23.530]  Okay, make it quick because we only have about 15 seconds or so.
[56:24.570 --> 56:34.950]  The last show that I called, I tried last week to get through to you guys, those guys said I was losing the audience, but I really could use some advice.
[56:34.950 --> 56:37.750]  They told me, if you want any privacy, give it up.
[56:38.210 --> 56:41.230]  So I mistakenly downloaded Picasa.
[56:41.230 --> 56:43.350]  I didn't know that they had facial recognition software.
[56:43.710 --> 56:58.790]  I want to know if there's anything I can undo because I was trying to organize three years of digital photos and I just violated the security of like 800 some odd people and I feel like crap.
[56:58.790 --> 57:02.030]  So you're saying that the software, the software...
[57:02.030 --> 57:05.930]  It took three hours to download and they were copying every one of my pictures.
[57:06.290 --> 57:07.250]  And they recognize...
[57:07.250 --> 57:09.370]  Well, tell everybody the name of the software for starters.
[57:10.030 --> 57:10.730]  Picasa 3.
[57:11.470 --> 57:11.870]  Okay.
[57:12.170 --> 57:14.230]  Thank you for not telling me that.
[57:14.430 --> 57:21.510]  I mean, yeah, advice for anybody who is, you know, who thinks that they're downloading safe, free software.
[57:21.770 --> 57:22.650]  There's a, you know...
[57:22.650 --> 57:28.190]  Well, I'm sure a representative or lawyer from that particular company will be getting in touch with us very soon and letting us know.
[57:28.190 --> 57:28.610]  Go ahead, Rob.
[57:28.770 --> 57:37.330]  The general rule with anything that requires you to upload your pictures or any other data to the internet is that if it's on the internet, it's probably not completely private and should not be treated as such.
[57:37.430 --> 57:37.570]  Yeah.
[57:37.670 --> 57:38.970]  That's a good rule of thumb.
[57:39.190 --> 57:39.330]  All right.
[57:39.350 --> 57:40.650]  I want to thank everybody for calling in.
[57:40.710 --> 57:43.050]  Again, write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[57:43.150 --> 57:43.830]  That's our email address.
[57:43.950 --> 57:45.770]  We'll be back again next week.
[57:45.990 --> 57:52.070]  And of course, meetings this Friday all over the world, www.2600.com slash meetings.
[57:53.070 --> 57:55.090]  Stay tuned for the personal computer show.
[57:55.090 --> 58:00.910]  Keep listening to WBAI for all kinds of local radio.
[58:01.250 --> 58:02.090]  Have a good night.
[58:09.990 --> 58:20.290]  Hanging in a trimmer, watching people sashay, past my steps, by my porch, in front of my door.
[58:24.010 --> 58:25.710]  Church bells are ringing.
[58:26.790 --> 58:28.110]  Choirs are singing.
[58:28.730 --> 58:30.710]  While a preacher's groan.
[58:31.070 --> 58:33.170]  And a sister's moan.
[58:33.290 --> 58:34.550]  In a blessed tone.
[58:38.530 --> 58:43.050]  Down in the trimmer, just me and my baby.
[58:43.290 --> 58:45.450]  We're all going crazy.
[58:45.650 --> 58:47.470]  But jumping and having fun.
[59:09.770 --> 59:14.210]  Down in the trimmer, it's me and my baby.
[59:14.210 --> 59:16.370]  We're all going crazy.
[59:16.610 --> 59:18.370]  But jumping and having fun.
[59:18.870 --> 59:22.890]  Down in the trimmer, it's me and my baby.
[59:22.890 --> 59:25.070]  We're all going crazy.
[59:25.170 --> 59:27.010]  But jumping and having fun.
[59:27.430 --> 59:27.470]  Woo!
[59:32.950 --> 59:36.690]  Hey, what happened to the music that they usually have here?
[59:37.590 --> 59:39.170]  Oh, what happened to the music?
[59:39.610 --> 59:41.030]  Oh, boy, okay.
[59:41.470 --> 59:43.970]  Well, they usually have good music going on here.
[59:44.130 --> 59:45.110]  What happened to you guys?
[59:45.410 --> 59:45.910]  It ended.
[59:46.110 --> 59:46.750]  It ended?
[59:47.090 --> 59:47.650]  Already?
[59:47.930 --> 59:47.970]  Yeah.
[59:49.530 --> 59:50.850]  Well, let's see now.
[59:51.030 --> 59:51.830]  What do we got here?
[59:54.600 --> 59:55.780]  It sure did.
[59:55.780 --> 01:00:02.180]  Oh, well, we'll be listening to WBAI anyway.
[01:00:03.020 --> 01:00:03.800]  Ha, ha.
[01:00:04.540 --> 01:00:10.200]  Boy, you guys usually have music that gives us like a minute to get it together here.
[01:00:10.580 --> 01:00:15.120]  Well, we're going to have Howard Lindner, the engineer of the personal computer show here.
[01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:21.060]  Hanging in a trimmer, watching people sashay.
[01:00:21.100 --> 01:00:23.600]  Yeah, these guys are bringing us down now.