[00:00.040 --> 00:05.900]  The cafe will provide a space to the Occupy Wall Street movement to speak out in their own voices.
[00:06.180 --> 00:13.040]  It's all taking place this Thursday through Saturday, October 29th through November 1st at 7 p.m.
[00:13.540 --> 00:20.480]  Epiphanio is located at 56 Walker Street in Tribeca, one block below Canal Street between Broadway and Church Street.
[00:20.800 --> 00:22.540]  The paradigm shift is ours to create.
[00:22.700 --> 00:25.280]  The revolution will be on WBAI.
[00:32.180 --> 00:35.860]  And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI, New York.
[00:36.140 --> 00:37.780]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[00:37.920 --> 00:39.880]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:45.160 --> 00:47.100]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:47.560 --> 00:49.620]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:50.620 --> 00:52.620]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:53.200 --> 00:55.160]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:55.900 --> 00:57.960]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:00.540 --> 01:03.400]  A billy bump for the best, expect the worst.
[01:03.980 --> 01:05.920]  I hope that's understood.
[01:05.920 --> 01:06.960]  But let me know.
[02:15.240 --> 02:16.240]  And good evening to everybody.
[02:16.340 --> 02:17.120]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:17.200 --> 02:18.480]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[02:18.640 --> 02:20.020]  Joined tonight by Red Hack.
[02:20.140 --> 02:20.340]  Hello.
[02:21.220 --> 02:21.660]  Kyle.
[02:22.120 --> 02:22.440]  Hi.
[02:22.640 --> 02:23.200]  Hold on a second.
[02:23.300 --> 02:23.500]  I'm sorry.
[02:23.880 --> 02:25.440]  I don't think your mic is working at all.
[02:25.660 --> 02:26.220]  Try a different one.
[02:27.420 --> 02:27.840]  Hello.
[02:28.200 --> 02:28.940]  That's better.
[02:29.140 --> 02:29.260]  Better.
[02:29.440 --> 02:29.540]  Okay.
[02:29.720 --> 02:30.280]  And Voltaire.
[02:30.500 --> 02:31.440]  Pleasure not to va.
[02:31.700 --> 02:32.020]  Yeah.
[02:32.300 --> 02:34.560]  And down in Philadelphia is Bernie S.
[02:34.900 --> 02:35.940]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:36.940 --> 02:42.900]  Well, we weren't on last week because of all the mayhem surrounding Troy Davis and the execution.
[02:43.460 --> 02:44.840]  And boy, what a story that was.
[02:44.940 --> 02:53.100]  There was a tragic outcome and just revealed a lot about the state of the nation and the state of law enforcement and things like that.
[02:53.420 --> 02:54.660]  And the story continues.
[02:54.860 --> 02:58.040]  The story is continuing right downtown, right where we are, in fact.
[02:58.240 --> 02:59.880]  You might have just heard an announcement about that.
[02:59.880 --> 03:07.380]  If you were listening to the news about an hour ago, you would have heard an amazing report about the occupation of Wall Street that's taking place right now.
[03:07.540 --> 03:12.360]  You would never guess if you watched it on mainstream television or listened to mainstream radio.
[03:12.520 --> 03:15.620]  I know because I just was trying that a little while ago.
[03:15.780 --> 03:16.340]  I was...
[03:16.980 --> 03:17.800]  Bernie, I didn't tell you this.
[03:17.820 --> 03:23.960]  I actually hooked up my television set to get digital over-the-air broadcasts.
[03:24.120 --> 03:24.600]  Wow.
[03:29.880 --> 03:30.760]  Channel 4-1.
[03:30.940 --> 03:32.140]  I can't get Channel 4-2.
[03:32.600 --> 03:37.240]  I think Channel 4-2 is Channel 4, but it's one second later.
[03:37.540 --> 03:39.400]  And I don't understand the reasoning behind it.
[03:39.420 --> 03:40.100]  I think it's Channel 4.
[03:40.200 --> 03:40.620]  It's one of them.
[03:41.080 --> 03:41.980]  There's all kinds of...
[03:41.980 --> 03:44.140]  Yeah, there's nonsensical channels in there.
[03:44.280 --> 03:47.900]  There's all kinds of shop-at-home garbage and things like that.
[03:48.540 --> 03:48.940]  It's...
[03:48.940 --> 03:49.560]  It's the future.
[03:49.720 --> 03:50.400]  It's the future.
[03:50.420 --> 03:51.060]  And I don't like it.
[03:51.100 --> 03:55.980]  Because the worst thing about it is that if the signal deviates even a little bit, you lose everything.
[03:56.000 --> 03:58.900]  And you just get a message that says weak signal or no signal.
[03:59.400 --> 04:00.780]  Welcome to three years ago.
[04:01.080 --> 04:01.280]  Yeah.
[04:01.420 --> 04:03.040]  Why is that better?
[04:03.200 --> 04:07.240]  In the past, you would just get maybe a little bit of haze on the picture and it was perfectly viewable.
[04:07.320 --> 04:08.340]  But now you just get nothing.
[04:08.620 --> 04:12.840]  Well, I think, I mean, on the one hand, you know, there's a lot going on that you probably don't see.
[04:13.000 --> 04:18.020]  There's all kinds of error correction and things in there that are making a weaker signal, you know, look better.
[04:18.240 --> 04:22.100]  But if you get a real, you know, kind of signal cut, then yeah, you're going to see that.
[04:22.180 --> 04:24.000]  And that's just because it's not going to have any data to process.
[04:24.000 --> 04:25.820]  You know, I'm in New York City.
[04:25.920 --> 04:30.980]  I'm watching New York City television channels coming from the Empire State Building and I can't get them.
[04:31.080 --> 04:32.860]  Whereas before, I was able to get them.
[04:32.980 --> 04:34.360]  That's not an improvement in technology.
[04:34.360 --> 04:35.820]  It's because there are those buildings in the way.
[04:35.960 --> 04:36.120]  Yeah.
[04:36.280 --> 04:39.820]  And that's why digital television isn't necessarily a good idea.
[04:39.920 --> 04:41.500]  Am I being a luddite, Bernie?
[04:41.960 --> 04:43.380]  Not at all, Mandela.
[04:43.760 --> 04:50.420]  It is harder to pick up digital television signals than analog TV channels.
[04:50.520 --> 04:57.020]  As you noticed, you know, back in the day, you could put up with a signal with a little bit of...
[04:57.940 --> 04:59.000]  Remember the ghosting?
[04:59.120 --> 05:01.980]  It'd have like a reflection if the signal was reflecting off a building or something.
[05:01.980 --> 05:02.980]  I love the ghosting.
[05:03.040 --> 05:03.600]  The ghosting's great.
[05:03.840 --> 05:04.760]  The ghosting was kind of cool.
[05:04.900 --> 05:06.840]  It was a neat psychedelic effect.
[05:06.840 --> 05:15.780]  And then you had some snow, there was a weak signal, but any of the conditions that would cause that now result in you seeing absolutely nothing.
[05:16.240 --> 05:18.100]  So it's a step down, in my opinion.
[05:18.380 --> 05:20.100]  And technology is not always moving forward.
[05:20.220 --> 05:21.140]  Sometimes it's moving backwards.
[05:21.240 --> 05:22.240]  Now, this is good for some things.
[05:22.320 --> 05:26.500]  Good for high-definition television and satellite and cable and all that kind of thing.
[05:26.540 --> 05:27.600]  Not good for over-the-air.
[05:27.720 --> 05:28.380]  Sorry, I just...
[05:28.380 --> 05:28.980]  I don't see it.
[05:29.060 --> 05:29.380]  Not yet.
[05:30.060 --> 05:30.460]  Voltaire?
[05:30.720 --> 05:30.920]  No?
[05:31.140 --> 05:32.360]  Keep changing your mind.
[05:32.920 --> 05:33.200]  All right.
[05:33.200 --> 05:45.440]  Well, anyway, so the reason I was talking about the television in the first place was because I turned it on at 6 o'clock to see what kind of coverage of the Wall Street takeover was taking place.
[05:45.540 --> 05:46.020]  And you know what?
[05:46.320 --> 05:47.540]  I saw absolutely nothing.
[05:47.760 --> 05:49.680]  I saw stories about the Yankees.
[05:49.760 --> 05:50.900]  I saw stories about the weather.
[05:51.100 --> 05:54.700]  I saw MTA chairman and all kinds of things like that.
[05:55.260 --> 05:57.200]  Every single story in the world was more important than this.
[05:57.260 --> 05:59.420]  In fact, I don't think they ever even covered this story.
[06:00.440 --> 06:03.820]  BAI, though, is the only place where I was able to actually hear something.
[06:04.020 --> 06:05.140]  Oh, no, that's not entirely true.
[06:05.200 --> 06:08.700]  I did hear something on WCBS on the way into the city.
[06:09.340 --> 06:13.860]  It was a story about how the protesters are annoying the local residents.
[06:13.860 --> 06:16.460]  They're making all this noise and their children can't sleep.
[06:16.460 --> 06:18.540]  And, oh, my God, we have to do something about this.
[06:18.620 --> 06:19.500]  How do we stop all the...
[06:19.500 --> 06:20.000]  You know what?
[06:20.000 --> 06:20.880]  You live in New York City.
[06:20.980 --> 06:21.820]  They have garbage trucks.
[06:21.960 --> 06:22.460]  They have airplanes.
[06:22.620 --> 06:25.060]  They have all kinds of rackets that are constantly going on.
[06:25.060 --> 06:30.100]  And it's not a news story, but you have people actually standing up for social change of any sort.
[06:30.120 --> 06:32.440]  And it's a big deal that something has to be done about.
[06:32.880 --> 06:41.000]  I'm sorry, but sometimes you got to put your humdrum life to the side and actually wake up and smell whatever is cooking downstairs.
[06:41.160 --> 06:41.660]  Voltaire, yes?
[06:41.720 --> 06:49.120]  The coverage I've seen in elite outlets like the New York Times has been extremely unfortunate and dismissive of the whole thing.
[06:49.540 --> 06:50.220]  Unfortunate how?
[06:50.220 --> 06:55.580]  Oh, just like the way it demeans the protests and say, like, oh, they don't have a goal.
[06:55.860 --> 06:59.000]  They're just being loud.
[06:59.120 --> 06:59.720]  Well, okay.
[07:00.820 --> 07:04.000]  A lot of people have said this, that there are no specific demands.
[07:04.040 --> 07:05.340]  What exactly will make them happy?
[07:05.400 --> 07:05.980]  What do they want?
[07:06.040 --> 07:07.220]  They want the whole system to fall apart.
[07:07.400 --> 07:08.360]  It's not that simple.
[07:08.500 --> 07:09.100]  It's not that simple.
[07:09.180 --> 07:09.960]  This is...
[07:09.960 --> 07:14.980]  And if you go to Europe ever or just watch news from around the world, you might see this in other places.
[07:15.400 --> 07:24.960]  People are just dissatisfied with the direction that things are going, with banks being bailed out, with people losing their homes, with no health insurance, and with the state of education, the infrastructure.
[07:25.480 --> 07:29.200]  Just, it's a statement that, no, this is not the direction we want to be going in.
[07:29.280 --> 07:34.020]  Things are not doing well, and we're just going to express ourselves by camping in this park.
[07:34.020 --> 07:35.720]  In this case, it's called Zuccotti Park.
[07:36.240 --> 07:36.780]  It used to be...
[07:36.780 --> 07:38.160]  And this is something that kind of bugs me a little bit.
[07:38.180 --> 07:39.340]  It used to be called Liberty Plaza.
[07:39.580 --> 07:41.720]  Believe it or not, it went the other way this time.
[07:41.720 --> 07:47.560]  It was called Liberty Plaza, and then after 9-11, it was renamed Zuccotti Park after some guy had built a building there or something.
[07:48.200 --> 07:49.980]  But people keep calling it Liberty Plaza.
[07:50.120 --> 07:50.640]  I'm not sure why.
[07:50.640 --> 07:51.720]  Maybe it's easier to find.
[07:51.860 --> 07:52.840]  It's right off Liberty Street.
[07:53.460 --> 07:56.720]  But regardless, we just passed by there before the show.
[07:56.940 --> 07:57.900]  There are a lot of people there.
[07:58.000 --> 07:59.440]  Kyle, how many people would you say are there?
[07:59.620 --> 08:02.040]  I would say well over 100.
[08:02.940 --> 08:04.520]  Like maybe even 1,000 people.
[08:06.340 --> 08:08.020]  It's pretty popular.
[08:08.020 --> 08:08.360]  I don't know.
[08:08.440 --> 08:13.580]  There's a lot of people down there from what looks like independent news media.
[08:15.920 --> 08:18.260]  And they've got a lot of their posters laid out.
[08:18.420 --> 08:20.340]  It looks almost like an art installation.
[08:20.740 --> 08:24.660]  They're just sort of lined up edge to edge all along one side of the street.
[08:24.780 --> 08:25.220]  I noticed that.
[08:25.320 --> 08:26.160]  It was really cool.
[08:26.380 --> 08:31.960]  They've got garbage cans out there with signs that say donations for this, that, or the other thing.
[08:32.980 --> 08:35.880]  People selling, vending, a little bit of like food.
[08:36.100 --> 08:41.000]  And also people selling American flags, that kind of stuff.
[08:42.060 --> 08:46.040]  Patriotic gear to kind of decorate the action.
[08:46.940 --> 08:47.340]  Yeah.
[08:47.480 --> 08:49.860]  We went by there once before, really late at night.
[08:49.900 --> 08:51.740]  And it was pretty quiet, but there were people there.
[08:51.920 --> 08:54.100]  This has been going on for I think almost two weeks now.
[08:54.760 --> 08:56.160]  But we just went by there before.
[08:56.400 --> 08:57.960]  And wow, it's very festive.
[08:57.960 --> 08:59.200]  A lot of people out.
[08:59.460 --> 09:01.100]  It seems like more and more people showing up.
[09:02.340 --> 09:04.220]  You know, you've got people that...
[09:04.220 --> 09:06.560]  I hadn't seen it in the daytime like this.
[09:06.700 --> 09:09.140]  So, you know, people are going to and from their jobs.
[09:09.260 --> 09:11.920]  And obviously it's a friendly scene.
[09:12.080 --> 09:13.000]  And I just...
[09:13.000 --> 09:20.020]  I really hope that people continue that kind of civil behavior and stuff on into the night as this continues.
[09:20.660 --> 09:21.680]  Are the police being friendly?
[09:21.860 --> 09:22.820]  Yeah, well, that's the thing, Bernie.
[09:22.960 --> 09:29.300]  And that's something I do want to touch upon because this is a subject that I feel very keenly.
[09:29.300 --> 09:33.180]  I don't think the cops have learned anything since the RNC in 2004.
[09:33.560 --> 09:39.620]  And the reason I say that is because I hope that our listeners have heard about this.
[09:39.760 --> 09:48.920]  The pepper spraying of completely peaceful people standing on the sidewalk being penned in by that horrible orange mesh that they use.
[09:49.700 --> 09:58.840]  Because the video clearly shows, clearly shows that this white-shirted cop just walks up to them, blithely sprays them in the face with pepper spray and just walks away.
[09:59.620 --> 10:01.000]  Officer Anthony Bologna.
[10:01.160 --> 10:01.720]  Yeah, okay.
[10:01.760 --> 10:02.180]  I'm glad you said that.
[10:02.180 --> 10:03.700]  Who's in trouble from the RNC.
[10:03.800 --> 10:04.780]  Well, not in trouble, sorry.
[10:05.020 --> 10:06.500]  He's being sued from the RNC.
[10:06.500 --> 10:21.560]  Let me just say, as one of the defendants in the RNC, someone who got penned in and had to deal with this garbage and is still fighting a lawsuit with the city, seeing someone who is involved with that, involved with this, tells me the city has learned absolutely nothing.
[10:21.760 --> 10:28.800]  They're using the same heavy-handed tactics against peaceful demonstrators because they don't know any other way.
[10:28.800 --> 10:38.960]  And as usual, the city says, well, they were justified in their actions, which, you know, is clear from the video that he wasn't, but they're going to protect the cops because that's what they do.
[10:39.440 --> 10:42.080]  No mayor wants to go up against the police department.
[10:42.080 --> 10:49.320]  You know, if there wasn't video, they would be painting a completely different picture and saying that it was instigated by the demonstrators and they had to do it to defend themselves.
[10:49.380 --> 10:51.260]  Well, you know, and that always happens.
[10:51.780 --> 10:56.000]  Also, in other protests, we've seen police officers assault people.
[10:56.000 --> 11:03.840]  There was a critical mass once where an NYPD officer, you know, threw someone off their bike and then charged them for assaulting an officer, but it happened to be on video, so.
[11:04.460 --> 11:07.580]  And that's why it's really good to constantly be taping.
[11:07.620 --> 11:13.180]  Unfortunately, if it's your word against the police, the police always win if there's no evidence to the contrary.
[11:13.520 --> 11:27.680]  And this is also a reason why people wonder why those of us suing the city for RNC didn't accept the deal that the city offered us, which was a monetary sum, it's not about the money.
[11:27.680 --> 11:43.700]  It's about getting them to admit that they're doing something wrong, getting them to be exposed for doing something wrong, simply taking people off the sidewalk or attacking people who are simply standing on the sidewalk or peacefully demonstrating, as is their right in this country,
[11:44.160 --> 11:49.060]  that's the kind of thing that needs to be addressed, challenged, and people have to know about this kind of thing.
[11:49.060 --> 11:49.700]  Emmanuel?
[11:49.960 --> 11:50.680]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[11:50.940 --> 12:09.940]  I just want to say that anybody who is involved with the RNC case and with, I'm sure, the legions of cases that will be stemming from these incidents, suing the city to get a monetary settlement, that comes out of the pockets of taxpayers.
[12:10.580 --> 12:16.620]  That doesn't come out of the pockets of the people who are culpable of the abuse of authority.
[12:16.620 --> 12:18.900]  I think you're right for holding out.
[12:19.080 --> 12:29.240]  I think the people who actually acted out, defined for the law, law enforcement officers, they're the ones who need to be held accountable personally.
[12:29.480 --> 12:44.480]  The law doesn't really allow you to sue them personally, but you can work out a settlement where there's something that comes out of their hide somehow, somehow, in terms of, you know, punishment somehow.
[12:44.980 --> 12:49.980]  But just getting a cash settlement accomplishes nothing, because it just comes out of the taxpayers' pockets.
[12:50.420 --> 12:55.260]  Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, there's really no accountability, which is why, you know, the police can act this way.
[12:55.380 --> 12:57.140]  I don't... it's not all the police, obviously.
[12:57.380 --> 12:58.400]  You know, it's some.
[12:58.880 --> 13:00.400]  It's, you know, a select few.
[13:00.400 --> 13:07.060]  But there is... there is basically... they're completely shielded from any kind of action against them.
[13:07.160 --> 13:10.580]  You can complain about them, but, you know, generally, those go nowhere.
[13:10.820 --> 13:19.320]  So, so it's, you know, it's not surprising that in a group of people that large, that there are going to be people acting like this, because they know they can get away with it.
[13:19.500 --> 13:23.560]  Now, it's interesting, Red Hack, what you said before, you identified the officer by name.
[13:23.640 --> 13:38.920]  And now, what always happens in cases, all cases involving cops, whether a cop kills somebody, assaults somebody, is accused of any kind of infection whatsoever, his name is protected, like he's some kind of super being, and is basically, like all of us should be,
[13:39.020 --> 13:42.720]  innocent until proven guilty, but also protected, anonymous, until proven guilty.
[13:43.120 --> 13:46.540]  And sometimes, even then, it's a hard time finding out what their names are.
[13:46.740 --> 13:54.640]  In this particular case, though, guess who released the name of this cop, who nobody was helping out with?
[13:54.640 --> 14:00.180]  It is the Anonymous Activist Collective, according to media reports.
[14:00.320 --> 14:11.800]  Yes, those guys who hack web pages and cause all kinds of turmoil on the internet, they went in, they found out the guy's name, and they revealed it, and now the world knows.
[14:11.980 --> 14:15.020]  And I think, if anything makes them heroes, it's that.
[14:15.500 --> 14:20.760]  It's full disclosure of something that we all deserve to know about.
[14:20.840 --> 14:23.420]  I'm not sure exactly how they did it, but I'm glad they did.
[14:23.420 --> 14:25.300]  And we need to do things like that more often.
[14:25.880 --> 14:26.760]  Bernie, do you agree?
[14:27.260 --> 14:28.020]  I agree.
[14:28.020 --> 14:39.980]  And I also find it fascinating that, you know, since the RNC situation, there's more use of innovative technology to document what's going on.
[14:40.740 --> 14:59.500]  There are people with live wireless internet connections there at the location who can stream video and upload photos in real time before the launch force and it gets to seize the cameras, which I think is a new development that wasn't really as feasible,
[14:59.500 --> 15:01.120]  you know, many years ago.
[15:01.580 --> 15:12.600]  Well, it's interesting because Kyle and I actually were monitoring this a few days ago, and it was simply incredible the way it was being displayed to us.
[15:12.820 --> 15:20.080]  It was a live stream from, I guess, cell phone cameras or something of that nature.
[15:20.280 --> 15:21.340]  Not just one.
[15:21.420 --> 15:28.420]  There was a control room somewhere where they were flipping back and forth and going from one person to another.
[15:28.420 --> 15:37.820]  And you could just see, this is where the two marches met, the anti-death penalty march from Union Square and the occupation in Wall Street.
[15:38.320 --> 15:40.260]  And you could see what was going on.
[15:40.360 --> 15:41.520]  You could see how the cops were reacting.
[15:41.540 --> 15:45.120]  You could see how the people, the protesters, were marching and chanting.
[15:45.640 --> 15:49.600]  And it just, I was astounded by, I know this is really nothing new.
[15:49.660 --> 15:51.820]  This has been done before, but just the coordination.
[15:51.820 --> 15:59.800]  I'd never quite seen done in that fashion before, where you could see the commentary of various people watching on the side.
[16:00.620 --> 16:02.100]  Fairly intelligent for the most part.
[16:02.460 --> 16:04.400]  And you could watch what was unfolding.
[16:04.560 --> 16:05.740]  Everybody could watch at the same time.
[16:05.820 --> 16:13.020]  But then they would do something, like, basically, and they'd have subtitles saying, okay, now we're going to go onto a bicycle and we're going to ride up to Union Square.
[16:13.040 --> 16:14.760]  We're going to ride from Wall Street up to Union Square.
[16:14.800 --> 16:18.340]  And all of a sudden, you're riding on a bicycle with a guy's camera.
[16:18.340 --> 16:20.360]  You're seeing the street moving really, really fast.
[16:20.360 --> 16:23.760]  Just a sense of intimacy, like, you're a part of it.
[16:23.860 --> 16:24.560]  You're seeing everything.
[16:24.820 --> 16:27.780]  This use of technology, how were they using that?
[16:27.820 --> 16:29.200]  How were they uploading it?
[16:29.240 --> 16:29.600]  Any idea?
[16:30.220 --> 16:34.160]  Yeah, it looked like they had cameras and laptops at the same time.
[16:34.160 --> 16:41.720]  And they're sending the signal somewhere remotely through, like, an application on a phone or some kind of signal.
[16:41.720 --> 16:52.000]  And then they were able to share it in real time and have someone else select the content and update some of the crawlers and the information that was running on the screen.
[16:52.400 --> 16:58.780]  And, I don't know, it was really, as you said, cool to be able to be a part of it, see how many other people were watching around the world.
[16:58.920 --> 17:00.260]  It was like watching a news channel.
[17:00.420 --> 17:01.440]  There was a crawl at the bottom.
[17:01.600 --> 17:05.600]  The crawl moved a little too slowly, but there was a crawl updating people with various late-breaking news.
[17:05.600 --> 17:09.220]  It was like having your own news channel devoted to this story.
[17:09.400 --> 17:16.360]  And at the time, it was interesting to then start searching the web for articles and see if there's any other kind of coverage.
[17:16.800 --> 17:20.920]  And at the time, it was the only thing that was showing that much coverage.
[17:20.920 --> 17:29.200]  And it really was quite vivid, just as much as you would get from a major corporation's news team.
[17:29.300 --> 17:30.900]  Now, Volta, you're holding up your phone.
[17:31.020 --> 17:32.660]  Are you actually monitoring this right now?
[17:32.680 --> 17:33.540]  Yeah, I'm watching it live.
[17:33.540 --> 17:38.660]  You can also see it at Livestream.com slash GlobalRevolution.
[17:38.880 --> 17:40.200]  Livestream.com or .org?
[17:41.800 --> 17:42.520]  Dot com.
[17:42.700 --> 17:43.220]  Dot com, okay.
[17:43.380 --> 17:44.140]  Livestream.com.
[17:44.220 --> 17:45.560]  And what's the full...
[17:47.020 --> 17:47.740]  Slash GlobalRevolution.
[17:47.960 --> 17:50.400]  Okay, well, that might be what it is down there.
[17:50.540 --> 17:56.940]  Yeah, as you said, it's like imagining people in Tereska having their own version of CNN.
[17:57.400 --> 17:58.780]  And that's what's happening here.
[17:58.860 --> 17:59.440]  It's really cool.
[17:59.580 --> 18:01.600]  I mean, you can look at it and say, wow, this is so biased.
[18:01.760 --> 18:02.540]  This is one-sided.
[18:02.540 --> 18:06.680]  But you got to look at all networks that way and realize how biased on one-sided they are.
[18:06.760 --> 18:08.120]  I mean, this is a media blackout.
[18:08.280 --> 18:09.140]  This story is happening.
[18:09.240 --> 18:09.920]  We just passed by.
[18:10.020 --> 18:11.640]  There's a thousand people down there.
[18:11.920 --> 18:12.800]  It's chaotic.
[18:13.600 --> 18:14.360]  It's democratic.
[18:15.200 --> 18:15.960]  It's amazing.
[18:16.220 --> 18:17.620]  But it's not on the news anywhere.
[18:17.640 --> 18:20.160]  And it has been on the news for the last 10 days or so.
[18:20.500 --> 18:23.300]  So it's something we all should be a part of.
[18:23.300 --> 18:26.600]  Now, I want to invite people, listeners, come down after the show.
[18:26.740 --> 18:27.820]  We're going to walk over there ourselves.
[18:28.000 --> 18:34.680]  In fact, we got a whole bunch of supplies that we're bringing for the people in Zuccotti Park or Liberty Plaza, whatever you want to call it.
[18:34.920 --> 18:55.600]  They have asked for various medical supplies, ginger, vitamin C, garlic, raw honey, as well as things like plastic bins, EpiPens, prepared food, non-perishable food items that don't need to be prepared, vegan, gluten-free, so anyone can eat that food,
[18:55.760 --> 19:01.700]  paperware, plastic cutlery, ice coolers, noisemakers, various things like that.
[19:02.260 --> 19:03.480]  So we went...
[19:03.480 --> 19:04.260]  And a hurdy-gurdy.
[19:04.380 --> 19:04.980]  A hurdy-gurdy.
[19:05.040 --> 19:05.160]  Yeah.
[19:05.240 --> 19:06.380]  What exactly is a hurdy-gurdy?
[19:06.420 --> 19:08.400]  That's like a music box or something?
[19:08.620 --> 19:10.540]  I think it's what the organ grinder plays.
[19:10.700 --> 19:12.200]  You know, the guy that had the monkey in his shoulder?
[19:12.780 --> 19:13.180]  Okay.
[19:13.500 --> 19:18.500]  Now, ostensibly, they already have a monkey, but if you happen to have a spare monkey, bring it down.
[19:18.580 --> 19:19.440]  They already have a monkey?
[19:19.760 --> 19:25.100]  Well, I said ostensibly, they have a monkey already if they're only asking for a hurdy-gurdy.
[19:25.200 --> 19:27.980]  Okay, I really hope they don't already have a monkey because we went to a lot of trouble.
[19:28.320 --> 19:30.040]  You can't have a hurdy-gurdy without a monkey.
[19:30.180 --> 19:32.420]  It's just like having bread without butter, you know?
[19:33.260 --> 19:33.660]  So...
[19:33.660 --> 19:35.000]  Where is he anyway?
[19:36.220 --> 19:39.400]  We left him in the lobby, and he could be anywhere in the station now.
[19:40.020 --> 19:42.120]  Okay, well, anyway, a protest isn't a protest.
[19:42.200 --> 19:42.720]  It's without a monkey.
[19:43.160 --> 19:43.860]  You need that.
[19:44.100 --> 19:47.120]  Now, we got some noisemakers.
[19:47.120 --> 19:47.680]  What do you got there?
[19:48.900 --> 19:50.320]  Rattle and noisemaker.
[19:50.920 --> 19:52.280]  Is that what that's called, a noisemaker?
[19:52.400 --> 19:52.920]  Well, I don't know.
[19:53.160 --> 19:55.200]  Yeah, you know, some supplies.
[19:55.340 --> 19:55.840]  Uh-huh.
[19:55.840 --> 19:57.040]  Is it coming through?
[19:57.300 --> 19:57.620]  Are they working?
[19:57.680 --> 19:58.960]  Oh, they're coming through all right, yeah.
[19:59.780 --> 20:03.040]  Now, I understand that the police are very...
[20:03.040 --> 20:05.260]  They take a very dim view of noise of any kind.
[20:05.360 --> 20:08.280]  In fact, some guy got tackled for beating a drum on Wall Street.
[20:09.580 --> 20:12.780]  Apparently, it's not allowed to beat drums on Wall Street or something like that.
[20:13.980 --> 20:17.040]  I wonder if the bell that opens up Wall Street is too loud for them.
[20:18.300 --> 20:19.820]  And anything on the other noisemakers?
[20:19.940 --> 20:21.080]  Were those the only two kind we got?
[20:21.980 --> 20:23.740]  We walked out of Walmart with the entire...
[20:23.740 --> 20:25.060]  Oh, I'm not supposed to say where we got it.
[20:25.060 --> 20:28.360]  We walked out of a big store with their entire supply.
[20:28.520 --> 20:31.640]  And we're going to drop that off just after the show.
[20:34.080 --> 20:35.680]  Okay, that'll curl your skin.
[20:35.860 --> 20:40.700]  That's the noise you can expect to hear around Wall Street.
[20:40.780 --> 20:42.260]  And it's thanks to us here at Off the Hook.
[20:42.740 --> 20:43.980]  So we'll be going over there.
[20:44.100 --> 20:46.780]  And listeners, please go down yourself.
[20:46.780 --> 20:49.880]  It's Broadway and Liberty Street.
[20:50.120 --> 20:51.600]  You won't miss it.
[20:51.900 --> 20:53.060]  Believe me, there's a park there.
[20:53.120 --> 20:54.500]  And it's called Zuccotti Park.
[20:54.500 --> 20:55.700]  And that's where everybody is.
[20:55.920 --> 20:59.680]  Bring all kinds of supplies, anything that you can spare.
[20:59.840 --> 21:01.880]  And just show your support and spread the word.
[21:02.000 --> 21:04.840]  Let people know that that's going on down there.
[21:06.160 --> 21:08.960]  Bernie, any suggestions on other things they might need?
[21:09.900 --> 21:15.100]  I would think that food and medical supplies would be most valued.
[21:15.300 --> 21:17.320]  And maybe some batteries.
[21:17.940 --> 21:22.020]  I imagine people are having trouble recharging the batteries.
[21:22.020 --> 21:28.340]  If you have a spare UPS that's charged up, people can plug in and charge their devices.
[21:28.360 --> 21:33.000]  Or if you have a bunch of charged AA or AAA cells, I think that would be helpful.
[21:33.000 --> 21:35.140]  How easily you can get in there carrying a UPS.
[21:35.340 --> 21:37.160]  Because the police have that place surrounded.
[21:38.640 --> 21:40.920]  I mean, it's relatively easy to walk in and out.
[21:41.060 --> 21:44.200]  But they're keeping an eye on whatever it is that you bring in.
[21:44.320 --> 21:45.960]  Certain things simply aren't allowed.
[21:46.080 --> 21:50.640]  For instance, one thing that's not allowed, believe it or not, for people camping out in the park, tents.
[21:50.780 --> 21:51.720]  You can't have tents.
[21:51.800 --> 21:52.700]  You can't have canvas.
[21:53.180 --> 21:55.640]  You can't have anything that might protect electronic equipment.
[21:56.040 --> 21:59.180]  That's these random rules that they come up with.
[21:59.280 --> 22:01.220]  So they'll stop you if you try to bring that in.
[22:01.440 --> 22:02.360]  They're not really random.
[22:02.500 --> 22:05.700]  They're trying to basically get these people out of the park.
[22:05.820 --> 22:05.960]  True.
[22:06.300 --> 22:06.420]  True.
[22:07.140 --> 22:09.440]  Without actually resorting to things.
[22:09.680 --> 22:12.180]  There might actually be laws against camping out in parks.
[22:12.380 --> 22:13.500]  Well, I don't know about that.
[22:13.560 --> 22:17.660]  But one thing that there is a law supposedly against is wearing a mask.
[22:17.660 --> 22:23.600]  And the law is bizarre because people were arrested over the weekend for wearing masks backwards on their head.
[22:23.640 --> 22:25.200]  In other words, it was in the back of their head.
[22:25.600 --> 22:26.860]  It was a Guy Fawkes mask.
[22:27.100 --> 22:28.760]  It's all about the interpretation, right?
[22:28.840 --> 22:30.660]  Oh, you're wearing a mask and that's against the law.
[22:31.000 --> 22:31.780]  Yeah, in the back of your head.
[22:31.920 --> 22:40.820]  And they say if there's more than two people or maybe it's even more than one person in a crowd wearing a mask that are part of the same crowd that that's illegal.
[22:41.240 --> 22:41.580]  Wait a minute.
[22:41.580 --> 22:42.560]  Really bizarre rules.
[22:42.620 --> 22:45.060]  How come they're not arresting everybody in the Halloween parade?
[22:45.060 --> 22:48.980]  Yeah, that's... maybe there's an exception, a big asterisk next to that.
[22:48.980 --> 22:49.460]  I don't know.
[22:50.140 --> 22:53.520]  Or it's just that at the time that their interpretation is that, hey, it's Halloween.
[22:54.000 --> 23:03.700]  No, there's a really disturbing story that we just saw posted actually on Channel 13, which is our local PBS station here.
[23:04.200 --> 23:07.020]  In fact, it's a flagship station of the public broadcasting system.
[23:07.420 --> 23:13.680]  And one of their journalists was swept up with everybody else that was arrested.
[23:13.680 --> 23:15.720]  This isn't as big as the RNC, not yet.
[23:15.840 --> 23:22.180]  Because I remember with the RNC, there were a thousand of us arrested in one swoop, one day.
[23:22.320 --> 23:24.140]  There were a lot more protesters also.
[23:24.320 --> 23:25.620]  Yeah, it was a much bigger event.
[23:25.620 --> 23:32.960]  But this has every bit of potential of getting bigger and bigger if word spreads of it, if the media actually starts to cover it.
[23:33.040 --> 23:35.640]  And maybe that's why they're not, because they want to keep this small.
[23:36.000 --> 23:38.560]  But, you know, it seems to be getting bigger every time I pass by there.
[23:39.120 --> 23:45.240]  But I like to read this because it's really disturbing and kind of reflects what the problems are here.
[23:45.240 --> 23:52.500]  On September 24th, while working on a story about citizen journalism for my employer, I found myself arrested along with many other people.
[23:52.680 --> 24:04.560]  My arrest gave me a unique vantage point on the risks and rewards of citizen journalists, those non-professionals who capture stories, usually without pay, using videos and images via portable technology like a cell phone camera.
[24:04.980 --> 24:08.760]  Anyone, even a passerby or a police officer, can be a citizen journalist.
[24:08.960 --> 24:09.960]  That's its power.
[24:09.960 --> 24:11.300]  Now, here's what happened.
[24:11.420 --> 24:20.800]  My colleague Sam Lewis and I had previously covered Occupy Wall Street, an ongoing demonstration against economic inequality on the first day it began, September 17th.
[24:20.980 --> 24:30.420]  Throughout that day, we noticed many protesters using their mobile devices to document their own experience, sometimes for themselves or their own blogs, sometimes to share with bona fide media organizations.
[24:30.920 --> 24:39.680]  So midday this past Saturday, September 24th, we headed to Union Square, where the Occupy Wall Street protesters had marched that morning from lower Manhattan.
[24:39.960 --> 24:44.820]  When we first arrived on the scene, protesters were marching along the sidewalk in unison, chanting.
[24:44.960 --> 24:46.100]  There was no sense of chaos.
[24:46.360 --> 24:49.720]  Many held video and audio recording devices, including camera phones.
[24:49.940 --> 24:53.220]  However, the stream of protesters did disrupt traffic.
[24:53.840 --> 24:54.600]  God forbid.
[24:54.940 --> 25:02.540]  Pedestrians wove in and out of the mass of protesters, some on their way to do Saturday errands, others who joined in for a block or two, chanting with the masses.
[25:03.060 --> 25:05.500]  Sam and I were on the sidewalk, observing the action.
[25:05.500 --> 25:13.280]  She was taking photographs while I was juggling my reporter's notebook and the audio recorder we'd brought along to interview protesters about how they were using media throughout the day.
[25:14.440 --> 25:20.020]  As more people spilled into the street, police started to demand that protesters stay on the sidewalk.
[25:20.420 --> 25:25.400]  But as people seemed to be retreating from harm's way, police began pushing the protesters.
[25:25.400 --> 25:28.880]  I saw police use large nets to corral people en masse.
[25:29.060 --> 25:32.580]  I watched as police pepper sprayed several young women in the face.
[25:32.740 --> 25:40.300]  An NYPD spokesperson confirmed the use of pepper spray to Metro Focus, which is the part of Channel 13, this is.
[25:40.660 --> 25:43.720]  I saw senior citizens and teenagers get arrested.
[25:43.920 --> 25:49.260]  I saw about 20 or 30 police officers tackle people and prod them roughly with police batons.
[25:49.340 --> 25:50.340]  You can see that video.
[25:50.860 --> 25:52.020]  It's all over the Internet.
[25:52.020 --> 26:00.520]  With nearly every arrest, the demonstrators called out for cameras, cameras, urging others to document the events, and chanted in unison, the whole world is watching.
[26:00.720 --> 26:02.200]  The whole world is watching.
[26:02.740 --> 26:06.220]  When I saw the young women get pepper sprayed, I ran over to interview them.
[26:06.480 --> 26:15.680]  While holding a microphone and wearing a badge, identifying myself as an employee of WNET, New York Public Media, I found myself suddenly roped into one of the large nets.
[26:16.140 --> 26:20.460]  I was thrown against a wall and handcuffed with hard plastic zip-tie restraints.
[26:20.460 --> 26:23.140]  I sat on the sidewalk with about 50 others.
[26:23.600 --> 26:25.660]  I yelled over and over, I'm press.
[26:25.760 --> 26:27.800]  I'm with WNET, Metro Focus.
[26:28.000 --> 26:29.340]  Please do not arrest me.
[26:29.480 --> 26:30.600]  Boy, this brings back memories.
[26:31.320 --> 26:36.100]  I did not possess the press credentials that NYPD allocates to journalists.
[26:36.620 --> 26:38.760]  And, yeah, let me just step out of this for a moment.
[26:38.860 --> 26:40.880]  That's exactly what occurred in 2004.
[26:40.880 --> 26:42.740]  We were on 16th Street.
[26:42.740 --> 26:44.000]  We were pushed onto the sidewalk.
[26:44.260 --> 26:56.380]  And those of us who were journalists, if you didn't have the NYPD journalist credentials, which is what you need basically to investigate homicides and get behind police lines, not the kind of thing that people at WBAI generally do.
[26:57.000 --> 27:01.120]  If you're not that kind of, quote-unquote, journalist, then you don't get NYPD credentials.
[27:01.280 --> 27:06.220]  And if you don't have NYPD credentials, you're not a journalist in their eyes, and you get arrested with everybody else.
[27:06.340 --> 27:07.800]  That's what happened in 2004.
[27:07.800 --> 27:09.400]  That's what's happening right now.
[27:09.820 --> 27:10.500]  Nothing has changed.
[27:11.460 --> 27:20.380]  Continuing here, as Metro Focus is less than three months old, neither I nor my journalist colleagues have yet met the NYPD's qualifications.
[27:20.660 --> 27:24.720]  So even though I work as a professional journalist, the NYPD lumped me in with everybody else.
[27:25.420 --> 27:26.500]  Lumped me in indeed.
[27:26.500 --> 27:31.920]  I was in police custody for nine hours, eight of which I spent in a jail cell at the first precinct.
[27:32.140 --> 27:40.260]  An NYPD spokesperson told Metro Focus on Monday that 87 people have been arrested in total, since the Occupy Wall Street protests began last weekend.
[27:40.480 --> 27:48.420]  However, the Daily News reported that at least 80 people were arrested on September 24th alone, mostly on charges of disorderly conduct and obstructing traffic.
[27:48.640 --> 27:51.480]  The NYPD would not comment further on my arrest.
[27:51.820 --> 27:58.100]  Before we were all jailed, they took away everybody's possessions, including our notebooks, pens, cameras, recording devices, and mobile phones.
[27:58.240 --> 27:59.380]  We were separated by gender.
[27:59.960 --> 28:02.040]  My cellmates were about 35 other men.
[28:02.200 --> 28:08.480]  Most of them were protesters with at least two bystanders who were snatched up while snapping souvenir photos in the afternoon mayhem.
[28:08.640 --> 28:14.560]  Most had spent quite a bit of time documenting the events of the day, including their arrests, with whatever media tools they had at their disposal.
[28:15.260 --> 28:20.980]  My cellmate JRL, who preferred to be identified only by his initials, is a 23-year-old Brooklynite.
[28:21.000 --> 28:25.100]  He identified himself as a citizen journalist who streams live footage through Twitter.
[28:25.520 --> 28:33.080]  We like the terminology grassroots media, where people in the march were literally marching with laptops and webcams so that they could live broadcast.
[28:33.080 --> 28:36.880]  I think it's an immediate, never-before-possible edge, said JRL.
[28:37.160 --> 28:40.360]  He was arrested while carrying his Canon 7D camera.
[28:40.800 --> 28:47.240]  Multiple videos from September 24th show police arresting people holding cameras and audio equipment.
[28:47.400 --> 28:52.320]  An NYPD spokesperson told ABC News that the police were not targeting camera operators.
[28:52.960 --> 28:57.360]  I don't know precisely why I was arrested, though I have been charged with disorderly conduct.
[28:57.360 --> 29:08.060]  But what I realized is that in a sudden burst of urban chaos, how can the police distinguish between passers-by and protesters who may be committing civil disobedience or any other type of punishable offense?
[29:08.380 --> 29:11.400]  Or between citizen journalists and professional journalists?
[29:11.680 --> 29:19.380]  The arrest of my cellmate, Sam Query, 24 years old, adds another dimension to the issue, that of the inadvertent, spontaneous citizen journalist.
[29:19.620 --> 29:25.640]  Query happened to be at work at Grey Dog Cafe near Union Square when the protesters marched by.
[29:26.480 --> 29:33.580]  I heard a commotion and went outside to find cops macing women and arresting people and hitting people with nightsticks, so I started taking pictures, said Query.
[29:33.920 --> 29:37.340]  I followed a young black male as he was being accosted by five cops.
[29:37.440 --> 29:39.620]  As I tried to take a picture, I was pushed away.
[29:39.800 --> 29:43.600]  I asked why I was pushed away, and then the next thing you know, I was being judo-flipped.
[29:44.800 --> 29:48.060]  I also met Rosa A., 33 years old, in a police van.
[29:48.200 --> 29:55.300]  While we were being transported to the first precinct for processing, she had been shopping at the Barnes & Noble on Union Square when she saw the protesters outside.
[29:55.800 --> 30:00.480]  As many New Yorkers do when they see something unusual, she snapped a picture, and she was arrested.
[30:00.980 --> 30:04.600]  I've never been arrested, said Rosa A., in visible pain from the plastic handcuffs.
[30:04.680 --> 30:06.600]  I was just there looking at magazines.
[30:06.880 --> 30:09.140]  She laughed, lightening the mood in the police van.
[30:09.240 --> 30:11.900]  Even our arresting officer in the van with us chuckled.
[30:12.500 --> 30:26.560]  Between when the Occupy Wall Street protests began on September 17th and this weekend's wave of media coverage stemming from the arrests, The protesters have complained about being largely ignored by traditional media, including the major national and even metropolitan newspapers,
[30:26.800 --> 30:29.920]  the cable TV news channels, and the local network news stations.
[30:30.180 --> 30:37.020]  Meanwhile, argue the protesters, similarly-sized Tea Party demonstrations in recent years have received considerable coverage.
[30:37.200 --> 30:46.740]  The general consensus among the Occupy Wall Street protesters was that it was important to document constantly what is happening and to present their own story when other media hasn't.
[30:46.740 --> 30:54.080]  The protesters have also claimed that the media coverage they did receive painted them in an unflattering light and hasn't accurately represented them.
[30:54.460 --> 31:01.580]  Saturday's New York Times article characterized the protesters as uninformed, mostly white hippies, and trust-funded anti-capitalists.
[31:01.720 --> 31:13.020]  As a result, the protesters I spoke with were quite media-savvy and conscious of their need to represent themselves in an attempt to legitimize their cause, which they've been doing on their website, on Twitter, and on YouTube.
[31:13.020 --> 31:23.680]  In fact, they have an entire media team assembled at Zuccotti Park in Lower Manhattan, where about a dozen laptops are being powered by a portable generator, and citizen journalists are constantly uploading new footage.
[31:24.060 --> 31:34.680]  The Occupy Wall Street demonstrators have been criticized, including in the aforementioned New York Times piece, as unorganized and lacking in any concrete goals other than to raise awareness about economic corruption.
[31:35.180 --> 31:38.440]  But as we all sat in a jail, I noticed an interesting thing happen.
[31:38.720 --> 31:43.460]  People began to talk very seriously about organizing in a more cohesive way than they have been.
[31:44.080 --> 31:55.900]  Jailhouse rookies, who had never been arrested or involved in radical political activities, listened attentively as experienced activists spoke about the need to set clear demands in order to rally broader public support for specific outcomes.
[31:56.320 --> 31:58.960]  I don't know what's going to happen to Occupy Wall Street as a movement.
[31:59.100 --> 32:00.060]  Maybe it will fizzle out.
[32:00.160 --> 32:00.900]  Maybe it will grow.
[32:01.080 --> 32:09.840]  I do know that whatever happens will be documented, and I know that there's a history of activist movements being bolstered when leaders and followers alike are jailed together.
[32:10.520 --> 32:19.120]  My cellmate Daniel Gross, a protester who volunteers as an organizer with the Industrial Workers of the World Union, helped create the first union for Starbucks employees.
[32:19.420 --> 32:23.420]  I think the NYPD is really going to try to spin what happened today, Gross told the group.
[32:23.560 --> 32:27.860]  As he handed out his contact information, I think that we should organize our own press conference.
[32:28.240 --> 32:37.640]  Around 10.30 p.m., the police began letting us leave our cell in groups of two before leaving many traded contact information through smuggled business cards and contraband pens.
[32:37.980 --> 32:41.180]  The still-jailed cheered the newly free.
[32:42.230 --> 32:51.580]  And that was from Channel 13's Metro Focus reporter who was jailed with so many other people on Saturday.
[32:52.120 --> 32:53.380]  John Farley is his name.
[32:53.500 --> 32:54.040]  John Farley.
[32:54.420 --> 32:56.580]  It's really, it's quite a story.
[32:56.580 --> 33:00.020]  And one that's not unfamiliar, one that's not new.
[33:00.020 --> 33:06.040]  And it just makes me realize how little has been learned and how the same mistakes keep getting made by the authorities.
[33:06.500 --> 33:15.760]  What is the fear of having people demonstrate in this country, having people march up a street and chant or occupy a park?
[33:16.180 --> 33:21.880]  What exactly is, what can they point to in the past where that has gone horribly wrong?
[33:22.500 --> 33:24.400]  Any theories on this?
[33:24.900 --> 33:29.540]  It's just that I disagree with the, they don't like this politics.
[33:29.540 --> 33:30.740]  The Tea Party.
[33:30.740 --> 33:31.780]  Who doesn't like the power?
[33:31.900 --> 33:32.460]  The police?
[33:32.600 --> 33:33.060]  The rulers.
[33:33.960 --> 33:35.280]  The people in power.
[33:35.500 --> 33:37.120]  They're fine with the Tea Party there.
[33:37.300 --> 33:42.680]  They think the Tea Party is within the sphere of reasonable debate.
[33:42.860 --> 33:49.720]  But they don't think that people that challenge their economic power are.
[33:49.860 --> 33:52.780]  I don't think you can apply gross generalizations to the rulers.
[33:52.780 --> 33:54.600]  I mean, it's kind of, it's...
[33:55.080 --> 33:56.560]  Yeah, there are different rules.
[33:56.740 --> 34:02.400]  I mean, there's Bloomberg, there's Obama, there's all kinds of people who are rulers.
[34:02.460 --> 34:05.360]  And I think they don't share the same ideas, obviously.
[34:06.000 --> 34:06.800]  They're quite similar.
[34:07.060 --> 34:11.480]  Well, there's something about, I think, the style of demonstration, perhaps.
[34:11.480 --> 34:17.960]  When you're seen as ultra-right-wing, I don't know, for some reason, you get a free pass.
[34:17.960 --> 34:18.900]  Because they don't tell it.
[34:19.160 --> 34:21.760]  When you're seen as left-wing, you're a threat in some way.
[34:21.840 --> 34:25.480]  And I can't understand why this country is so obsessed with that.
[34:25.500 --> 34:27.640]  Are we talking about the media or are we talking about the rest of protesters?
[34:27.640 --> 34:31.760]  I'm talking about the culture in general, the media, the government, the general population.
[34:32.400 --> 34:36.420]  They seem to see this as potentially evil and must be stopped and quelled.
[34:36.420 --> 34:39.560]  I don't think the general population sees this as evil, but the...
[34:39.560 --> 34:45.580]  Well, I'd like to see the general population show up then and show their support and start criticizing the NYPD for what they're doing down here.
[34:45.580 --> 34:51.540]  Well, I don't think not necessarily everyone agrees with a specific protest.
[34:51.760 --> 34:59.860]  I think what's important is to make sure that protesters are protected in the ways that they should be and that they shouldn't be assaulted by the police.
[34:59.980 --> 35:03.580]  And especially the people who disagree should be saying that, especially those people.
[35:04.120 --> 35:05.660]  Now, for instance, if the people...
[35:05.660 --> 35:14.560]  But again, you're also kind of taking it and saying, well, I understand this has happened before and this is happening again, but it's not all the police that are doing this.
[35:14.920 --> 35:17.020]  Especially when it comes to assault, it's a few.
[35:17.660 --> 35:20.640]  So you can't just say, well, they're all against us.
[35:20.720 --> 35:21.220]  It's not true.
[35:21.260 --> 35:28.600]  There are people there, you know, and during the RNC, I remember there were police who were more than polite and, you know, all they want to do is you stay on the sidewalk, you stay on the sidewalk.
[35:28.780 --> 35:30.620]  And then there are certain people who take it too far.
[35:30.820 --> 35:30.980]  Right.
[35:30.980 --> 35:41.100]  But there are plenty of police who are very nice guys and, as we saw in the article here, the police who laugh with the demonstrators and all that kind of thing, but they're powerless to do anything.
[35:41.300 --> 35:42.380]  They have their orders.
[35:42.600 --> 35:47.160]  They follow those orders and they do the same thing and those orders come from someplace.
[35:47.560 --> 35:55.340]  Now, the question I was going to ask, though, was if there was a Tea Party demonstration happening instead and they were being treated like this, what would our response be?
[35:55.420 --> 35:57.480]  Would we be defending them?
[35:57.560 --> 35:58.820]  Would we be saying this is not fair?
[35:58.820 --> 36:02.780]  I, you know, if I were to hear about abuses in any kind of protest, I would be upset about it.
[36:02.840 --> 36:05.760]  I don't think that it's, I don't think it's the nature of the protest necessarily.
[36:05.760 --> 36:09.660]  I think it's that the actions towards the protesters that are the problem.
[36:09.820 --> 36:10.020]  Right.
[36:10.220 --> 36:10.440]  Right.
[36:10.780 --> 36:10.980]  Absolutely.
[36:11.060 --> 36:13.260]  But the thing is, we never seem to see it from that.
[36:13.400 --> 36:22.520]  It's a hypothetical situation where I bring up, but we never seem to see the other side, if you want to say sides exist here, be attacked like this.
[36:22.640 --> 36:37.240]  Whereas this kind of demonstration, even though they're not doing anything that could be seen as harmful, they're not smashing windows or, or lighting things on fire, they, they seem to get attacked very quickly, just as if there's some kind of, some kind of threat.
[36:37.340 --> 36:41.780]  Or it could be that the protests that we hear about happen to be in New York, where, where it happens to be liberal.
[36:42.460 --> 36:44.140]  It happens all over the country, though.
[36:44.180 --> 36:47.660]  I mean, you know, I don't know about every protest around the country and what happens at those.
[36:48.020 --> 36:51.700]  But I'm sure that they, they run the gamut in terms of political views.
[36:51.700 --> 37:07.480]  I think the more important or equally important question is why is like media, like in New York Times, so dismissive of protests of this on the left, while, when they tend to be generally supportive of Tea Party protests, it's a real general double standard.
[37:07.740 --> 37:09.320]  Who's supportive of Tea Party protests?
[37:09.600 --> 37:10.840]  Or they cover it, rather.
[37:11.060 --> 37:12.760]  They're more respectful in their coverage.
[37:13.100 --> 37:20.240]  Well, I think they're also more fearful of we have to cover this or we're going to be seen as part of the liberal media that doesn't respect other sides.
[37:20.240 --> 37:26.460]  And there doesn't seem to be the same concern here of not covering this or being accused of not being fair in this regard.
[37:26.680 --> 37:31.380]  Also, and this is my own personal opinion, but I feel like the Tea Party is more fun to gawk at.
[37:31.560 --> 37:33.680]  Like, I can't believe that these are their views.
[37:34.060 --> 37:40.380]  Whereas, you know, in the terms of this protest, there are certain things that are being said that are, you know, are good points.
[37:40.520 --> 37:42.600]  But yeah, that's just my own opinion.
[37:42.900 --> 37:46.500]  I also think that this, this is a lot newer and it was smaller.
[37:46.500 --> 37:48.160]  Now it's, it's growing a bit.
[37:48.340 --> 37:53.480]  And I think by holding their ground, they've proven that there's something serious to look at here.
[37:53.780 --> 38:04.740]  So maybe give it, given some time, that attitude will change as far as support and less skepticism as far, you know, and in allowing them to, to protest freely down there.
[38:04.900 --> 38:05.040]  Yeah.
[38:05.160 --> 38:05.360]  Yeah.
[38:05.380 --> 38:10.220]  You have to also understand that this whole Tea Party movement, whatever it is, has been around for a lot longer.
[38:10.220 --> 38:21.840]  And I'm sure at the very beginning, it didn't have the kind of coverage it has, but the fact that, you know, different political positions have been filled with representatives of it makes it, you know, a force to be reckoned with, whereas this is, you know,
[38:21.920 --> 38:22.760]  a week and a half old.
[38:22.880 --> 38:30.480]  So that, that also brings to mind the fact that they are organized, they are better organized to the Tea Party, like them or love them or hate them or whatever.
[38:31.660 --> 38:33.660]  They, they can get their people elected.
[38:33.660 --> 38:37.380]  And that's something that any, any protest group needs to learn how to do.
[38:37.380 --> 38:49.460]  But in general, and fairness and accuracy and reporting has done a good job of, of talking about this, the, if, if there's a protest of, of, of 100,000 people in Washington, D.C.
[38:49.860 --> 38:56.320]  against the war, they'll get far less coverage than a protest of like 10,000 people, Tea Party people in Washington, D.C.
[38:56.320 --> 39:00.440]  Or a march of Nazis down the streets of Skokie, Illinois, with 10 people.
[39:00.560 --> 39:05.840]  Yeah, of course, it'll, certain things, the media flocks towards certain things, the media just doesn't want to be reminded of.
[39:05.840 --> 39:07.940]  Bernie, why are we talking about this on Off the Hook?
[39:07.980 --> 39:09.000]  How is it relevant to us?
[39:09.520 --> 39:17.540]  Well, I think, I think our rights and, and where our country is going is important to everybody, not just, uh, uh, other radio shows.
[39:17.700 --> 39:27.360]  But, uh, you know, I'm particularly interested in, in, in this being documented as we're doing on this show, using technology that, uh, hasn't really been available to this extent before.
[39:27.580 --> 39:35.760]  For people providing live audio and video streams, um, of these events, it just simply wasn't possible only a few years ago.
[39:36.200 --> 39:52.260]  And I think that once people, I think critical, I think critical mass is going to be reached in the media, where enough, uh, audio and video of, of, of mistreatment, mistreatment of people who are exercising their constitutional rights, in this case, the First Amendment,
[39:52.880 --> 39:59.120]  are being, uh, abused and, uh, and arrested and, and, you know, literally beaten and, uh, assaulted.
[39:59.600 --> 40:05.840]  As more and more of this becomes publicly seen, um, I think, I think things are going to change.
[40:06.480 --> 40:14.580]  Yeah, I mean, definitely, you know, in this day and age, and this is relevant to our show, there's just so much more technology available that you, you see things that you wouldn't have seen before.
[40:14.700 --> 40:26.980]  There might have been a small report in a newspaper, you know, and now you can go on, uh, YouTube or whatever other video sharing site and, and see exactly what happened and, and judge for yourself and, uh, hopefully get some awareness and get other people to,
[40:27.040 --> 40:32.200]  to, to step up and either complain or, or whatever needs to be done to get the right action taken.
[40:32.560 --> 40:33.000]  Absolutely.
[40:33.280 --> 40:46.720]  And, uh, it's that technology, that use of technology that empowers people and learning how to do it properly, uh, can make all the difference between the, the world seeing you as irrelevant and the world following what it is that you do with great interest.
[40:46.720 --> 40:50.000]  And the whole world is able to, uh, to see this.
[40:50.160 --> 40:55.600]  I was seeing people from New Zealand commenting on what they were seeing in the streets of New York on, uh, livestream.com.
[40:55.940 --> 40:57.700]  Uh, and that's, uh, that's fascinating.
[40:57.820 --> 40:58.880]  We can learn so much from this.
[40:59.000 --> 41:02.540]  It's not just about the people who have all the technology, who have all the money.
[41:02.720 --> 41:04.020]  Uh, anyone can do this.
[41:04.140 --> 41:05.100]  Anyone can be a part of it.
[41:05.220 --> 41:14.280]  And, uh, a great way to start to become part of the process is just come down, uh, to, uh, to Wall Street, to, uh, to the, um, Broadway and Liberty Street.
[41:14.840 --> 41:16.340]  And it's going to be going all night long.
[41:16.500 --> 41:19.000]  We're heading over there after the, uh, after the show tonight.
[41:19.340 --> 41:24.000]  Uh, in fact, uh, if, if you're down there, you want to call us up, 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[41:24.100 --> 41:28.380]  We'll be taking phone calls in just a minute or two from, uh, all of our listeners, no matter where you are.
[41:28.880 --> 41:30.840]  Uh, now, Kyle, we're bringing things to them after the show.
[41:30.980 --> 41:32.460]  We, we went on a shopping spree.
[41:32.460 --> 41:35.520]  I think we have some, uh, some packets of tea.
[41:35.780 --> 41:37.100]  Well, not just packets, but boxes.
[41:37.480 --> 41:39.520]  Uh, and we got a big sack of rice.
[41:39.820 --> 41:40.020]  Yeah.
[41:40.020 --> 41:46.020]  Well, I think the kind you get in, in, in, uh, uh, various countries and other parts of the world where you carry it on your head or something like that.
[41:46.140 --> 41:48.160]  We're going to, we're going to try and do that as we, uh, go into the park.
[41:48.160 --> 41:48.680]  Do they have a rice cooker?
[41:49.020 --> 41:49.240]  Yeah.
[41:49.320 --> 41:50.180]  Well, they have a kitchen.
[41:50.400 --> 41:50.560]  Ah.
[41:50.640 --> 41:53.320]  They have, they have all kinds of, they have a media center, a kitchen.
[41:53.460 --> 41:55.320]  It's, it's, it's starting to really get built up.
[41:55.480 --> 41:55.660]  Yeah.
[41:55.740 --> 42:03.080]  And I, I hope that, that the support services, people around, um, that are, you know, wanting to contribute and bring down some stuff.
[42:03.280 --> 42:10.960]  Uh, I know Livestream waved the ads on their site last week when, um, they were helping with the coverage of, um, the live action.
[42:11.100 --> 42:12.020]  So that was kind of cool.
[42:12.300 --> 42:26.660]  Um, and, you know, other support services down in that area, uh, everybody from the, the garbage trucks to the, the transit, like the transportation system, there's all kinds of, I don't know, companies and organizations that, you know, it's cool.
[42:26.780 --> 42:35.000]  I think that, that they are able to, um, to bear witness and also do little things here and there to, to support the action.
[42:35.000 --> 42:43.440]  And I think that's going to start to grow as people, as we've talked about, um, kind of dig in and, uh, and hold their ground.
[42:43.900 --> 42:44.300]  Okay.
[42:44.340 --> 42:53.800]  Right now I'm looking at the Livestream feed and they have, uh, over 3000 viewers currently watching the, uh, the pictures, uh, from Zuccotti park down, uh, here by wall street.
[42:53.980 --> 42:56.700]  And that's just fascinating to, to see that, to watch it unfold.
[42:56.920 --> 42:57.800]  Uh, okay.
[42:57.900 --> 43:00.440]  Our phone number 212-209-2900.
[43:00.660 --> 43:08.000]  Let's get some calls coming in so that we don't get dominated by people who just like to, uh, shout something into the phone and then hang up, uh, we'll see a full switchboard there.
[43:08.400 --> 43:10.580]  Uh, Bernie, I just wanted to ask you something quickly before we go to the phones.
[43:10.940 --> 43:15.980]  Um, uh, you had brought this up on, on our mailing list as far as, uh, uh, recording the police.
[43:16.060 --> 43:21.620]  Now the police are, are reacting, uh, kind of irrationally to people who record them with, with, uh, video recorders.
[43:21.860 --> 43:25.600]  Uh, it's a common practice at demonstrations for everybody to be recording everybody.
[43:25.900 --> 43:30.780]  Uh, but you brought up a point that in some states it might be a legal period to, uh, to do this.
[43:30.880 --> 43:31.240]  Is that true?
[43:31.240 --> 43:32.220]  Uh, that's right.
[43:32.380 --> 43:34.880]  There's, uh, there's about a dozen states in the U.S.
[43:35.020 --> 43:38.760]  that, um, that it's a felony to record the audio.
[43:39.160 --> 43:40.680]  Not video is not a problem.
[43:40.820 --> 43:43.520]  It's record audio of people without their knowledge.
[43:44.020 --> 43:46.000]  Um, it can be prosecuted as a felony.
[43:46.160 --> 43:58.720]  And many people have been prosecuted by police who are angry that their, uh, their abuses of authority, um, were documented and put up on YouTube and so forth.
[43:58.720 --> 44:00.180]  So they prosecuted people.
[44:00.640 --> 44:12.440]  There's, there are moves in a couple of states to actually, uh, make it okay, um, to, in some of those states to, to, to video and audio record police while they're on duty.
[44:12.640 --> 44:13.880]  And I fully support that.
[44:14.000 --> 44:25.280]  I mean, if they're public servants, their, their actions should be documented while they are, you know, working for us, uh, ostensibly protecting our constitutional rights and preserving order.
[44:25.280 --> 44:37.740]  So I'm going to read those states, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Massachusetts, Maryland, Michigan, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, where I am, and the state of Washington.
[44:38.020 --> 44:46.640]  In any of those states, if you record audio, um, along with video, um, of, uh, of anyone, you can be prosecuted for a felony if they're not aware they're recorded.
[44:46.760 --> 44:53.740]  Unfortunately, um, there are very few, uh, video recorders that allow you to record video only and, and not record the audio.
[44:53.960 --> 44:55.220]  Uh, can you do that with an iPhone?
[44:55.380 --> 44:56.640]  Who's there, who's there, has an iPhone?
[44:57.140 --> 45:00.500]  Volter, uh, can you, can you record something without, uh, that audio?
[45:00.780 --> 45:02.320]  Is it possible to mute the audio?
[45:02.660 --> 45:04.740]  Uh, there's probably a separate app, but...
[45:04.740 --> 45:05.920]  I'm sure there's an app for that somewhere.
[45:06.060 --> 45:07.460]  Okay, well, we'll look into it.
[45:07.560 --> 45:08.860]  But, Brennan, I just want to point this out.
[45:08.960 --> 45:15.660]  I looked on, um, a website for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press, our, uh, RCFP.org, really, uh, a helpful site.
[45:15.660 --> 45:20.120]  Uh, and, uh, they actually, um, go into some detail on each of the states that you mentioned.
[45:20.120 --> 45:23.760]  Now, I'm going to read you an excerpt from, uh, from the section on California.
[45:23.980 --> 45:34.820]  They say, conversations that occur at any public gathering where one could expect to be overheard, including any legislative, judicial, or executive proceeding open to the public, are not covered by the statute.
[45:34.980 --> 45:49.060]  For example, when a television network used a hidden camera to videotape a conversation that took place at a business lunch meeting on a crowded outdoor patio of a public restaurant, the conduct did not violate the penal code's prohibition against eavesdropping because it was not a confidential communication.
[45:49.060 --> 45:56.420]  Now, that is just California, uh, and it's different for every state, but, uh, maybe it's, maybe it's not as, as, as broad-reaching as we fear.
[45:56.860 --> 46:03.160]  Well, a public forum would not describe a police officer, uh, beating someone on a street.
[46:03.380 --> 46:04.940]  That's not really a public forum.
[46:05.000 --> 46:07.680]  Well, if it was a public street, if he was beating him on a private street, perhaps.
[46:07.940 --> 46:19.040]  Not, it's not really, I can tell you right now that, uh, that, uh, a prosecutor would, would, would argue that's not a public forum, as, you know, as a, as a public meeting would be.
[46:19.280 --> 46:27.420]  I want to meet the prosecutor who, in a case involving a policeman beating somebody, argues that it wasn't a public space and therefore this evidence should be thrown out.
[46:27.800 --> 46:32.040]  We all know this stuff is very selectively enforced, uh, in favor of the government.
[46:32.300 --> 46:38.840]  So, um, you know, the laws are not, are not, are not fairly or, or equitably enforced.
[46:38.940 --> 46:53.600]  So, you know, if, if, if any interpretation of the law could be against you, in a situation where you're recording a police, uh, who's, uh, going, uh, outside the bounds of their, uh, what they're allowed to do, you can expect to be prosecuted in those states.
[46:53.840 --> 46:54.060]  All right.
[46:54.120 --> 46:56.320]  Also, let me, let's read you what, uh, they say about Pennsylvania.
[46:56.540 --> 47:03.600]  Consent is not required of any parties if the parties do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy for their non-electronic communication.
[47:03.900 --> 47:10.400]  So, uh, it seems like, uh, if, unless the cop feared, figured that he was beating somebody and had every expectation of not being seen.
[47:11.460 --> 47:16.060]  Uh, what's a nice way around that here in Pennsylvania is you don't need their consent.
[47:16.260 --> 47:19.640]  They just need, they just can't have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
[47:19.840 --> 47:25.840]  If you just tell them, Hey, I'm recording your audio now, um, then that's too bad.
[47:26.020 --> 47:28.720]  Then they can't say they have, and you get that on the, on the recording.
[47:28.920 --> 47:32.500]  Um, they can't claim that they had a reasonable expectation of privacy.
[47:32.600 --> 47:35.760]  Well, wouldn't that wouldn't the presence of a video recorder sort of say the same thing?
[47:35.760 --> 47:36.880]  No, it would not.
[47:37.080 --> 47:37.320]  All right.
[47:37.500 --> 47:39.140]  Listen, we're going to have to continue this conversation later.
[47:39.180 --> 47:41.980]  I want to take some phone calls in the few minutes that we have left.
[47:41.980 --> 47:43.400]  So let's go over here.
[47:43.720 --> 47:44.320]  Good evening.
[47:44.320 --> 47:45.560]  You're on Off the Hook.
[47:46.720 --> 47:47.400]  Oh, yes.
[47:47.680 --> 47:48.480]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[47:50.200 --> 47:54.820]  The Nokia N8 is a phone that allows you to record video without the audio.
[47:55.080 --> 47:55.480]  Okay.
[47:56.140 --> 47:58.320]  As well as probably a Nokia E7.
[48:00.140 --> 48:04.620]  All right, so it looks like somebody has been paying attention to this potential need.
[48:05.940 --> 48:09.500]  Yes, there looks like a manufacturer has been.
[48:09.720 --> 48:12.940]  I actually have something else I wanted to talk to you guys about.
[48:13.060 --> 48:13.460]  Very quickly.
[48:17.200 --> 48:19.520]  It's in reference to PDFs.
[48:20.320 --> 48:29.740]  The government has a way to actually modify your PDF, if it's, say, like a government document.
[48:30.920 --> 48:39.420]  Real quickly, I had a trademark that got published in the Trademark Gazette with a PDF file.
[48:39.580 --> 48:40.580]  I downloaded it.
[48:41.640 --> 48:48.780]  And then something happened where the publication got rescinded of that trademark.
[48:49.600 --> 48:55.120]  And when I went back to the PDF that I had the trademark in, it wasn't there.
[48:55.360 --> 48:56.960]  Well, that's why you print them out.
[48:57.020 --> 49:00.960]  And if they manage to change it after you print it out, then they've really got some smoke and mirrors going.
[49:01.060 --> 49:04.840]  But we're going to have to talk about that in more detail on a future show.
[49:04.920 --> 49:06.100]  Let's stick to this topic here.
[49:06.180 --> 49:06.440]  Good evening.
[49:06.540 --> 49:07.300]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:07.920 --> 49:08.320]  Yes.
[49:08.320 --> 49:08.580]  Hi.
[49:08.680 --> 49:09.020]  Good evening.
[49:09.320 --> 49:09.740]  How are you doing?
[49:10.320 --> 49:14.880]  I was just thinking, you know, where is NPR covering this story?
[49:15.260 --> 49:21.140]  Where are channels like Channel 12 out of Long Island who you would think would be covering this story?
[49:21.200 --> 49:23.880]  Actually, NPR, on all things considered, did have a pretty good piece.
[49:23.920 --> 49:24.820]  I think it was yesterday.
[49:24.920 --> 49:26.160]  But I agree with you.
[49:26.220 --> 49:27.100]  There should be a lot more.
[49:27.520 --> 49:29.660]  Well, I have connections at News 12.
[49:29.840 --> 49:31.880]  And if you want, I'll call them and tell them to get over there.
[49:31.940 --> 49:32.480]  Please do.
[49:32.640 --> 49:32.940]  Please do.
[49:32.980 --> 49:37.300]  News 12, Long Island, Westchester, New Jersey, and New York 1.
[49:37.300 --> 49:40.120]  One, I haven't seen their coverage, but hopefully they're doing something.
[49:40.280 --> 49:41.880]  I know they did a great job during RNC.
[49:42.200 --> 49:43.980]  So I'm hoping that they're there.
[49:44.200 --> 49:45.380]  This is news, folks.
[49:45.520 --> 49:50.220]  This is more important than traffic conditions and the Yankees being in yet another playoff series.
[49:50.600 --> 49:51.120]  All right.
[49:51.300 --> 49:51.760]  Good evening.
[49:51.900 --> 49:52.700]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:52.700 --> 49:53.800]  Yes, hello.
[49:54.020 --> 49:54.220]  Hi.
[49:54.680 --> 49:56.320]  I'm Tom from the Bronx.
[49:56.520 --> 50:06.180]  I'd like to say that the key to controlling the individuals down there was to spread paranoia, in my opinion.
[50:07.640 --> 50:11.720]  That's how they're frightening everybody.
[50:11.900 --> 50:13.500]  And how do you think they're spreading paranoia?
[50:14.000 --> 50:14.180]  Huh?
[50:14.360 --> 50:15.840]  How do you think they're spreading the paranoia?
[50:16.320 --> 50:20.120]  Well, terror stories, fright, fear.
[50:20.120 --> 50:27.980]  Well, actually, it's funny you should mention that, because the top story everywhere right now is this new terror threat that was just uncovered out of Boston, I believe.
[50:28.320 --> 50:32.060]  And they say, well, we have to go into every avenue.
[50:32.280 --> 50:40.580]  And these individuals down there are really trying to spread fear and possible terror.
[50:40.920 --> 50:43.180]  And this is where it's at.
[50:43.300 --> 50:45.560]  We're headed for a righty country over here.
[50:45.560 --> 50:48.160]  Well, I think we already are there, but maybe even more so.
[50:48.240 --> 50:49.400]  But thanks for your call.
[50:49.560 --> 50:57.240]  And that's one of the reasons why people are down there, is because of the way things are portrayed and the fear that we're constantly being confronted with.
[50:57.420 --> 51:02.260]  And it's just basically people saying something has to change.
[51:02.940 --> 51:03.420]  All right.
[51:03.520 --> 51:03.860]  Good evening.
[51:03.960 --> 51:04.580]  You're on Off the Hook.
[51:06.080 --> 51:06.840]  Speak up, please.
[51:08.080 --> 51:08.700]  Too slow.
[51:08.880 --> 51:09.060]  Okay.
[51:09.200 --> 51:09.500]  Good evening.
[51:09.580 --> 51:10.200]  You're on Off the Hook.
[51:11.400 --> 51:12.000]  Go ahead.
[51:13.240 --> 51:13.860]  Speak up.
[51:14.540 --> 51:15.140]  Pocket call.
[51:15.140 --> 51:15.460]  Okay.
[51:15.600 --> 51:15.960]  Good evening.
[51:16.140 --> 51:16.960]  You're on Off the Hook.
[51:17.020 --> 51:17.440]  Are you there?
[51:17.680 --> 51:17.940]  Yes.
[51:18.080 --> 51:18.360]  Hi.
[51:18.520 --> 51:18.820]  It's Sandra.
[51:19.100 --> 51:20.520]  Thanks for the live stream.
[51:20.680 --> 51:21.820]  I hadn't known about it.
[51:22.500 --> 51:26.520]  The orders are coming from the top in police behavior.
[51:27.040 --> 51:36.760]  Dissent for change is considered a threat to the public safety, especially economic and anti-war.
[51:37.240 --> 51:41.780]  And on the Tea Party, look where the funding is coming from.
[51:41.780 --> 51:42.980]  They're corporate friendly.
[51:43.260 --> 51:43.700]  And thanks.
[51:43.820 --> 51:44.480]  Another good show.
[51:44.600 --> 51:44.840]  Bye.
[51:44.840 --> 51:45.080]  Okay.
[51:45.200 --> 51:46.160]  Thanks for that call.
[51:46.360 --> 51:49.320]  I'm just looking at the live stream right now, in fact.
[51:49.440 --> 51:53.360]  And they're saying that media team members have been arrested during the rain.
[51:53.360 --> 51:54.640]  Apparently, it's raining outside now.
[51:54.740 --> 51:56.820]  Please don't let rain discourage you from coming down there.
[51:58.560 --> 52:01.320]  www.livestream.com slash global revolution.
[52:02.560 --> 52:08.120]  If you're not anywhere near New York, then at least turn that on and take a look at what's going on.
[52:08.200 --> 52:09.260]  It's fascinating.
[52:09.260 --> 52:10.600]  Look at what you can do with media.
[52:11.640 --> 52:14.540]  Up to 3,223 viewers right now.
[52:14.680 --> 52:16.880]  And I'm seeing all kinds of things at the park.
[52:17.760 --> 52:20.380]  And, of course, there's audio, too, which we're not putting on the air right now.
[52:20.740 --> 52:20.880]  All right.
[52:20.880 --> 52:22.200]  212-209-2900.
[52:22.280 --> 52:22.560]  Good evening.
[52:22.700 --> 52:23.360]  You're on off the hook.
[52:24.820 --> 52:25.120]  Hello?
[52:25.360 --> 52:25.500]  Yes.
[52:25.560 --> 52:25.760]  Go ahead.
[52:26.300 --> 52:26.640]  Hey, hi.
[52:26.700 --> 52:27.100]  How are you?
[52:30.860 --> 52:33.540]  Well, I just want to give a plug for...
[52:33.540 --> 52:39.160]  You know, a lot of people warned about this stuff years ago or 10 years ago, and here it is.
[52:39.300 --> 52:40.320]  It's happening right in front of you.
[52:40.520 --> 52:46.660]  So, when people talk about things, I would, you know, don't knock everything down.
[52:46.820 --> 52:53.060]  It's better to be overcautious and just include every theory in than to just pick and choose one out.
[52:54.320 --> 52:56.600]  So, I'm giving a plug for, I guess, conspiracy.
[52:57.320 --> 52:59.760]  You know, here it is happening right in front of you.
[52:59.760 --> 53:04.720]  And people warned about this years ago, and people said, yeah, right, okay, yeah, go get a job, you know.
[53:05.860 --> 53:06.880]  And here it is.
[53:07.000 --> 53:07.400]  It's happening.
[53:07.700 --> 53:13.360]  So, and people say that Twin Towers were not a conspiracy.
[53:13.660 --> 53:14.640]  Well, wait a minute.
[53:15.160 --> 53:16.560]  19 people conspired.
[53:16.880 --> 53:17.900]  That's their story.
[53:18.340 --> 53:19.140]  That's a conspiracy.
[53:19.520 --> 53:19.780]  Okay.
[53:19.940 --> 53:23.260]  Yeah, I'm sure there was a conspiracy involved, but we're not getting into that right now.
[53:23.380 --> 53:24.620]  Thanks for your call, though.
[53:25.400 --> 53:25.700]  Oh, boy.
[53:25.860 --> 53:26.300]  Good evening.
[53:26.420 --> 53:27.120]  You're on off the hook.
[53:27.600 --> 53:27.920]  Hello?
[53:28.180 --> 53:28.660]  Yes, go ahead.
[53:29.260 --> 53:30.920]  Oh, thank God you guys answered.
[53:31.060 --> 53:32.080]  That's my 10th call.
[53:33.380 --> 53:35.040]  You want me to tell you why I'm calling?
[53:35.260 --> 53:37.240]  Yes, make this 10th call worth it.
[53:39.100 --> 53:39.580]  Sure.
[53:39.780 --> 53:42.000]  I've been down to Wall Street three times.
[53:42.000 --> 53:43.280]  I was there the first day.
[53:43.620 --> 53:44.660]  And what I don't...
[53:44.660 --> 54:04.360]  Some of the points that I don't think you're getting is that the police are a tool for the establishment that people don't realize that they want to destroy our rights under the Constitution so that we get a fascist state.
[54:04.500 --> 54:06.340]  This is why the Patriot Act was passed.
[54:06.380 --> 54:09.940]  It's a destruction of our rights under the Constitution.
[54:10.360 --> 54:14.380]  Well, the very fact that people aren't demonstrating a lot more frequently.
[54:14.560 --> 54:15.320]  I mean, we look overseas.
[54:15.320 --> 54:17.840]  We see demonstrations at the drop of a hat.
[54:17.980 --> 54:23.680]  In France, they say, we're going to have to lower the retirement age so that you have to work one more year.
[54:23.760 --> 54:25.580]  But we're not going to do it until 2019.
[54:25.580 --> 54:29.340]  2019, people show up in the millions to demonstrate against that.
[54:29.420 --> 54:35.820]  Other countries, if social spending goes down a little bit, everyone comes out into the street and has a general strike.
[54:36.360 --> 54:40.500]  Here, if you spend money on social programs, it's considered a bad thing.
[54:40.640 --> 54:42.940]  Here, if you demonstrate, it's considered a bad thing.
[54:43.080 --> 54:47.420]  It's time we wake up and start questioning those values we have.
[54:47.800 --> 54:48.680]  Well, absolutely.
[54:48.680 --> 55:00.980]  But it's part of a plan to put people to sleep by watching these idiotic shows on TV, these reality shows, and other things, other methods.
[55:01.280 --> 55:04.460]  The media is part of the plan.
[55:04.620 --> 55:05.140]  Of course.
[55:05.460 --> 55:09.940]  It's a major part of the plan to dumb Americans down.
[55:10.320 --> 55:12.860]  And everybody's been complicit with it.
[55:12.960 --> 55:17.580]  And while they've done this, our rights under the Constitution have been trampled.
[55:17.720 --> 55:18.180]  Of course.
[55:18.180 --> 55:19.320]  And look who owns the media.
[55:19.500 --> 55:20.900]  Look at the companies that own the media.
[55:21.100 --> 55:23.000]  Two or three companies running the whole thing.
[55:23.460 --> 55:24.640]  Yeah, dumbing down America.
[55:24.680 --> 55:26.160]  That's a great thing for them.
[55:26.980 --> 55:28.580]  Watching reality shows all the time.
[55:28.940 --> 55:35.080]  Best reality show around is on Wall Street right now, or off-Broadway on Liberty Street.
[55:35.380 --> 55:36.220]  All right, thanks for that call.
[55:36.260 --> 55:37.520]  We're going to try and squeeze in one more.
[55:37.620 --> 55:37.920]  Good evening.
[55:38.040 --> 55:38.760]  You're on Off the Hook.
[55:40.580 --> 55:40.780]  Hello?
[55:41.080 --> 55:41.540]  Yes, go ahead.
[55:41.800 --> 55:42.020]  Quickly.
[55:42.160 --> 55:42.340]  Hi.
[55:42.980 --> 55:44.420]  Thanks for getting on.
[55:44.540 --> 55:45.540]  Let me turn this off.
[55:48.220 --> 55:50.380]  Well, you know, I call to say yes.
[55:50.520 --> 55:51.620]  I've been down there twice.
[55:51.640 --> 55:59.260]  And I really appreciate and thankful that you guys spend quite a time on what's going on.
[55:59.320 --> 56:02.120]  Well, this is what WBAI is for, the voice of the people.
[56:02.120 --> 56:03.800]  And we talk about things that are happening.
[56:04.400 --> 56:04.840]  Wonderful.
[56:05.140 --> 56:09.300]  Also, I would encourage listeners to go down and support, just to look around.
[56:09.960 --> 56:13.420]  I see that there's even a donation plan.
[56:13.420 --> 56:16.200]  You can put some money in to support the cause.
[56:16.480 --> 56:20.120]  Because we really need to have them down there.
[56:20.180 --> 56:21.920]  We need to have the foots on the ground.
[56:22.020 --> 56:23.120]  We need to add to it.
[56:23.280 --> 56:26.500]  And we need to support it in every way in which we can.
[56:27.160 --> 56:27.560]  Absolutely.
[56:28.220 --> 56:28.520]  All right.
[56:28.520 --> 56:29.280]  Thanks for your call.
[56:29.520 --> 56:30.200]  Thank you.
[56:30.440 --> 56:36.060]  And those of you out there who have not yet looked into this, pressure your local media.
[56:36.340 --> 56:37.040]  Call them.
[56:37.160 --> 56:40.880]  See that they're covering this story, that they're giving fair representation.
[56:41.440 --> 56:44.020]  And if you're anywhere in the area, come by.
[56:44.180 --> 56:47.300]  Liberty Street off of Broadway, Zuccotti Park.
[56:47.580 --> 56:49.340]  You'll see hundreds and hundreds of people there.
[56:49.580 --> 56:53.200]  And it's something that's really a positive development.
[56:53.320 --> 56:55.380]  We're going to head over there right now after the show.
[56:55.380 --> 56:59.860]  We're going to be bringing all kinds of goods to the people there.
[57:01.820 --> 57:03.320]  And it's going to be a great time.
[57:04.220 --> 57:04.720]  Write to us.
[57:04.900 --> 57:05.720]  O-T-W...
[57:05.720 --> 57:06.000]  I'm sorry.
[57:06.060 --> 57:08.180]  O-T-H at 2600.com.
[57:08.300 --> 57:10.260]  O-T-H at 2600.com is our email address.
[57:11.020 --> 57:14.280]  And hopefully we'll see you in the park in just a few minutes.
[57:14.780 --> 57:17.460]  If not, we'll see you on the radio next week.
[57:17.900 --> 57:18.560]  Have a good night.
[57:20.760 --> 57:25.100]  The loudspeaker spoke up and said...
[57:27.140 --> 57:31.020]  The loudspeaker spoke up and said...
[57:32.140 --> 57:35.540]  The loudspeaker spoke up and said...
[57:39.740 --> 57:43.020]  The loudspeaker spoke up and said...
[57:43.620 --> 57:45.520]  Christianity is stupid.
[57:46.420 --> 57:48.320]  Christianity is stupid.
[57:49.240 --> 57:51.080]  Christianity is stupid.
[57:52.390 --> 57:54.160]  Christianity is stupid.
[57:58.990 --> 58:01.110]  Christianity is stupid.
[58:15.310 --> 58:16.910]  Communism is good.
[58:18.270 --> 58:19.890]  Communism is good.
[58:25.990 --> 58:27.590]  Can you hear that?
[58:29.990 --> 58:30.970]  Give up.
[58:47.450 --> 58:49.150]  Christianity is stupid.
[58:51.050 --> 58:52.730]  Christianity is stupid.
[58:53.790 --> 58:55.370]  Christianity is stupid.
[58:55.370 --> 58:58.090]  Christianity is stupid!
[58:58.370 --> 59:00.210]  Give up!
[59:02.570 --> 59:04.210]  Communist is good!
[59:09.190 --> 59:12.250]  Christianity is stupid!
[59:18.830 --> 59:20.130]  Communism is good!
[59:22.490 --> 59:24.690]  We are back.
[59:27.470 --> 59:28.810]  We are back.
[59:28.890 --> 59:29.350]  We are back.
[59:29.350 --> 59:29.850]  We are back.
[59:29.990 --> 59:31.050]  We are back.
[59:32.030 --> 59:32.970]  We are back.
[59:33.750 --> 59:34.830]  We are back.
[59:34.830 --> 59:36.550]  We are back.
[59:37.030 --> 59:38.330]  We are back.
[59:39.330 --> 59:40.170]  We are back.
[59:40.990 --> 59:41.290]  We are back.
[59:41.290 --> 59:41.710]  We are back.
[59:41.710 --> 59:41.710]  We are back.
[59:43.930 --> 59:44.690]  We are back.
[59:45.290 --> 59:45.630]  We are back.
[59:46.050 --> 59:47.390]  We are back.
[59:48.290 --> 59:49.170]  We are back.
[59:49.390 --> 59:49.390]  We are back.
[59:49.390 --> 59:49.390]  We are back.
[59:49.770 --> 59:49.770]  We are back.
[59:49.830 --> 59:49.830]  We are back.
[59:49.850 --> 59:49.850]  We are back.
[59:49.850 --> 59:49.850]  We are back.
[59:49.850 --> 59:49.850]  We are back.
[59:49.850 --> 59:49.850]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back.
[59:50.110 --> 59:50.110]  We are back
[01:00:07.510 --> 01:00:11.490]  It's about five o'clock in the morning till ten o'clock at nine.
[01:00:11.770 --> 01:00:12.950]  communism is good.
[01:00:15.410 --> 01:00:16.790]  Christianity is stupid.
[01:00:21.210 --> 01:00:22.430]  minisum is good.
[01:00:28.850 --> 01:00:30.550]  17 hours of sales.
[01:00:50.180 --> 01:00:51.600]  Yeah, that's right.
[01:00:51.940 --> 01:00:53.280]  Well, you know what?
[01:00:53.380 --> 01:00:54.320]  It's 8 p.m.
[01:00:54.380 --> 01:00:59.600]  here at WBAI New York 99.5 FM, also streaming on the web at WBAI.org.