[00:00.000 --> 00:01.020]  ...the cold weather.
[00:01.700 --> 00:06.860]  BAI Studios are serving as the collection point for both mailed packages and by-hand deliveries.
[00:07.200 --> 00:11.260]  To arrange a drop-off, call 212-209-2800.
[00:11.580 --> 00:17.980]  Otherwise, mail your handiwork to WBAI, 120 Wall Street, 10th floor, New York, New York, 100005.
[00:18.240 --> 00:19.220]  Attention, wool.
[00:19.780 --> 00:22.240]  Come on, let's put some lids on some noggins.
[00:22.420 --> 00:25.740]  For more information, go to thumpandgrowl.com.
[00:33.210 --> 00:38.890]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI, New York, where the time is just about 7 o'clock.
[00:39.080 --> 00:42.640]  And that means, once again, it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:48.650 --> 00:53.090]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:54.090 --> 00:58.530]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:59.250 --> 01:03.910]  We couldn't get much worse, it would.
[01:04.130 --> 01:06.810]  A billy-bomb for the best, expect the worst.
[01:06.810 --> 01:10.370]  I hope that's understood, but make me know!
[02:43.450 --> 02:44.170]  And Voltaire?
[02:45.030 --> 02:47.630]  Are we going to talk tonight, or just stare at our phones?
[02:48.350 --> 02:48.830]  And nod.
[02:49.050 --> 02:52.330]  People are nodding, for those of the rest of the world in radio land.
[02:52.510 --> 02:53.510]  That's the voice of Mike.
[02:53.830 --> 02:55.210]  And, okay, here's the thing.
[02:55.330 --> 02:55.390]  Hello.
[02:55.390 --> 02:55.910]  I'm sorry, I missed it.
[02:56.090 --> 02:56.910]  What are you, on delay?
[02:58.510 --> 02:59.410]  All right, all right.
[02:59.510 --> 03:07.950]  So, we have... I don't know if you've been listening to the radio station over the last week or so, but we have this amazing feature now called the high-pitched squeal.
[03:08.250 --> 03:09.230]  It's not really a whine.
[03:09.310 --> 03:13.050]  People can... They accuse us of whining a lot, but this is not a whine.
[03:13.150 --> 03:13.790]  It's more of a squeal.
[03:14.290 --> 03:15.590]  Listen, we can play it.
[03:16.870 --> 03:17.930]  What do you think about that, huh?
[03:18.250 --> 03:25.490]  Now, we thought, last week, we thought this was part of the phone line, but we don't have a phone connected to this right now, so it's something in the board.
[03:26.210 --> 03:30.370]  And if you listen, you've been hearing the sound a lot every time somebody's been on the phone.
[03:30.370 --> 03:34.810]  So, what we just did, what Mike and I just might have figured out, we're going to try this now.
[03:34.950 --> 03:38.130]  We patched around it, and we're going to try to bring Bernie S.
[03:38.250 --> 03:39.370]  up on a different channel.
[03:40.270 --> 03:48.450]  And actually, Bernie S., the board here thinks that you're a cart machine, so we're going to see if it actually works and you can come up as a voice.
[03:48.590 --> 03:49.510]  Bernie, are you there?
[03:49.870 --> 03:51.150]  I guess you can just call me cart.
[03:51.150 --> 03:52.390]  Oh, the squeal is there, too.
[03:52.650 --> 03:54.490]  Well, you can call me cart man with a squeal.
[03:54.610 --> 03:55.450]  Why is the squeal there?
[03:55.570 --> 03:56.510]  That doesn't make any sense.
[03:56.750 --> 04:00.210]  So, the squeal is there even when we patch around this.
[04:00.370 --> 04:03.050]  So, it's... but the squeal isn't there.
[04:04.270 --> 04:05.190]  I don't understand.
[04:05.350 --> 04:07.130]  See, that's the squeal from the channel that we're not using.
[04:07.610 --> 04:09.810]  And this is the squeal from the channel we are using.
[04:09.930 --> 04:11.210]  It's the same damn squeal.
[04:11.910 --> 04:13.230]  This is not promising.
[04:13.430 --> 04:13.890]  No, it's not.
[04:14.290 --> 04:14.610]  Maybe...
[04:15.910 --> 04:17.410]  You know, it wasn't doing that before, either.
[04:17.530 --> 04:20.750]  So, I think we should just pull that patch and put Bernie back on the other one.
[04:20.830 --> 04:22.710]  Because he's also coming through on just one ear, too.
[04:23.310 --> 04:26.310]  I mean, could it be that the squeal is coming from the phone equipment?
[04:26.550 --> 04:28.250]  Well, yeah, that's what I thought at first.
[04:28.250 --> 04:31.410]  But then, when you bring up the channel and there's no phone attached to it...
[04:31.410 --> 04:31.830]  That's what I'm saying.
[04:32.010 --> 04:33.670]  ...no phone coming through and you still get the squeal...
[04:33.670 --> 04:33.990]  Oh, you do.
[04:33.990 --> 04:35.350]  ...that tells you that it's not the phone.
[04:35.430 --> 04:37.050]  But apparently, it still is the phone somehow.
[04:37.990 --> 04:38.650]  Yeah, okay.
[04:38.750 --> 04:40.150]  This is the troubleshooting hour, folks.
[04:40.230 --> 04:43.650]  Where we go on the air live and troubleshoot things that are wrong and try and fix it.
[04:43.690 --> 04:44.430]  Sometimes you have to do that.
[04:44.470 --> 04:46.310]  You can learn how hackers solve problems.
[04:46.550 --> 04:47.470]  That's pretty much it.
[04:47.570 --> 04:50.050]  Bernie, welcome to both ears now with the high-pitched squeal.
[04:50.230 --> 04:50.570]  Greetings.
[04:50.570 --> 04:55.390]  I guess you're going to be able to call me Cartman, but I'm not on the cart port anymore, am I?
[04:55.550 --> 04:56.390]  No, not really.
[04:56.690 --> 04:58.470]  We can call you Squealer or something.
[04:58.670 --> 04:59.010]  Yeah, there you go.
[04:59.130 --> 05:00.290]  That gig didn't last very long.
[05:00.410 --> 05:02.970]  But not only do we have a squeal, we also have a low-pitched hum.
[05:03.090 --> 05:03.530]  Can you hear that?
[05:04.710 --> 05:05.230]  That's me.
[05:05.830 --> 05:06.590]  What do you mean that's you?
[05:06.670 --> 05:07.950]  Well, I'm just humming to myself.
[05:08.010 --> 05:08.670]  No, it's not you.
[05:08.690 --> 05:10.550]  You're on a cell phone, which is also...
[05:10.550 --> 05:12.270]  Actually, no, I'm on a landline here tonight.
[05:12.470 --> 05:13.530]  You never guessed it tonight.
[05:13.670 --> 05:14.250]  Wow, okay.
[05:14.690 --> 05:15.750]  Well, maybe that is you then.
[05:15.830 --> 05:16.570]  Maybe that's where the hum is.
[05:16.570 --> 05:20.510]  No, because last week you heard the squeal and it was on the cell phone, so...
[05:20.510 --> 05:24.230]  Well, no, I know the squeal is us, but the hum might be you because you're on a landline.
[05:25.110 --> 05:27.430]  Oh, yeah, the hum, the low-pitched hum may be the landline.
[05:27.430 --> 05:35.430]  I know whenever it rains, my landline has a low-pitched hum on it because Verizon really has not figured out how to get rid of that in almost a century now.
[05:36.530 --> 05:39.830]  So, yeah, okay, well, Bernie, anything you want to say?
[05:39.890 --> 05:46.770]  We're going to have to keep turning you down because it gives people all kinds of headaches to hear this constantly.
[05:47.050 --> 05:47.230]  Well, Emmanuel?
[05:47.490 --> 05:47.670]  Yes?
[05:47.910 --> 05:51.110]  I could send you a text message whenever I want to interject and say something.
[05:51.270 --> 05:52.410]  Oh, that would be lovely, yeah.
[05:52.930 --> 05:57.470]  I would relish seeing my phone go off every minute, but...
[05:57.470 --> 06:01.250]  Also, he could get it in an hour because there's no actual guarantee on delivery.
[06:01.390 --> 06:02.090]  You know, that's the thing.
[06:02.290 --> 06:04.110]  I was... I don't understand this.
[06:04.110 --> 06:05.730]  I get news updates on my phone.
[06:05.850 --> 06:09.650]  I got news updates a day and a half after they happened and all at once.
[06:09.910 --> 06:11.550]  And it wasn't because I was out of service.
[06:11.810 --> 06:12.710]  I was in service.
[06:12.850 --> 06:14.210]  In fact, it was last week I was in the city.
[06:15.110 --> 06:18.390]  And then the next day I got all these news updates from the previous day.
[06:18.670 --> 06:20.150]  I couldn't figure out what happened.
[06:20.270 --> 06:21.270]  It wasn't my phone for a change.
[06:21.310 --> 06:22.130]  It was something else.
[06:22.310 --> 06:23.970]  They could just get caught somewhere because they don't have any guarantee.
[06:23.990 --> 06:26.450]  They got stuck or they were being searched or something.
[06:26.850 --> 06:31.250]  Yeah, you know, the towers in T-Mobile were probably depressed that they weren't going to be bought out.
[06:31.390 --> 06:33.210]  Well, thanks for revealing my carrier to everybody.
[06:33.470 --> 06:34.230]  Yeah, T-Mobile.
[06:34.470 --> 06:40.970]  Okay, now speaking about T-Mobile, this whole merger thing, it seems to be not really happening.
[06:41.230 --> 06:43.190]  Bernie, you've heard something about this, haven't you?
[06:43.190 --> 06:47.270]  Yeah, well, yeah, we've all really been following this story because it's important.
[06:48.070 --> 06:57.910]  As our listeners know, who have been listening for a while, we've been talking about AT&T wanted to absorb, like a giant amoeba, absorb T-Mobile.
[06:58.950 --> 07:13.990]  And, of course, they had to go to the Securities and Exchange Commission, the SEC, and say, hey, this will be, you know, this will improve technology, increase competition, generate all kinds of jobs, and it was all a bunch of lies.
[07:13.990 --> 07:19.850]  And the FCC called them on it and said, sorry, guys, they called BS on them.
[07:19.990 --> 07:22.130]  Well, here's something that I read today, actually.
[07:22.310 --> 07:23.430]  This happened today, apparently.
[07:23.630 --> 07:32.830]  The FCC released a 157-page report detailing its position on AT&T's proposed acquisition of T-Mobile USA.
[07:32.830 --> 07:40.510]  This was released after the FCC accepted the withdrawal of AT&T's request for approval of the $39 billion deal.
[07:41.310 --> 07:48.030]  And then, after they released this highly critical report, AT&T complained about it.
[07:48.090 --> 07:52.690]  They issued a statement about the FCC's report on the proposed purchase of T-Mobile.
[07:53.570 --> 07:56.290]  It was released to the public, and then it was later withdrawn.
[07:56.610 --> 08:05.390]  And in the report, the FCC had pointed out many inconsistencies and faults with AT&T's proposal, which apparently did not sit well with the carrier.
[08:06.170 --> 08:15.730]  AT&T wants everyone to know that the FCC's report is just a draft and that it has no legal standing since AT&T was granted permission to withdraw its proposal before the FCC.
[08:15.950 --> 08:16.950]  But I found it interesting.
[08:18.190 --> 08:19.270]  It was available.
[08:19.390 --> 08:20.350]  I can't find it right now.
[08:20.350 --> 08:22.150]  Yeah, I'm sure somebody downloaded a copy of it.
[08:22.630 --> 08:23.550]  Bernie, did you hear about this?
[08:23.710 --> 08:24.190]  I did.
[08:24.350 --> 08:33.050]  And I guess you could also say that all of AT&T's statements on this were also drafts and not entered into the court records.
[08:33.270 --> 08:36.250]  You know, they're just whining that they got called on their lies.
[08:36.990 --> 08:39.270]  And it looks like it's not going to go through.
[08:39.270 --> 08:45.110]  And I'm glad because, you know, there aren't enough mobile phone companies as it is.
[08:45.110 --> 08:54.570]  And if there's, if AT&T absorbed T-Mobile, all the, you know, T-Mobile is arguably one of the most consumer-friendly mobile carriers in this country.
[08:54.650 --> 08:54.910]  Oh, wow.
[08:54.970 --> 08:56.330]  The hum is really getting loud now.
[08:56.350 --> 09:02.850]  Which doesn't say much, but, you know, it would, anybody who's on a decent T-Mobile plan could kiss it goodbye if AT&T bought them.
[09:02.850 --> 09:05.790]  Every time you say something good about T-Mobile, your hum gets louder.
[09:05.970 --> 09:08.850]  So, obviously, the company that's causing the hum is not T-Mobile.
[09:08.970 --> 09:10.370]  It's somebody that doesn't like T-Mobile.
[09:11.010 --> 09:12.670]  So, that's very interesting there.
[09:13.310 --> 09:17.210]  But the thing that, when we talk about lies, it's kind of a strong word, but they are lies.
[09:18.010 --> 09:31.390]  When AT&T says that this merger is going to create jobs, how in any universe is it possible for two companies getting together and sharing resources, how do you get more jobs from that?
[09:31.510 --> 09:33.430]  It seems to me like you'd be cutting jobs left and right.
[09:33.450 --> 09:34.350]  Is that not true?
[09:34.650 --> 09:35.210]  Well, sure.
[09:35.330 --> 09:40.230]  There's going to be economies of scale, and they're going to want to consolidate their, all the divisions in the company.
[09:40.370 --> 09:46.510]  You know, all the technical divisions, customer service, marketing, billing, payables.
[09:46.630 --> 09:54.050]  Of course, they're going to... that's the only reason they would buy another company is to be more efficient with a larger size company.
[09:54.490 --> 09:54.750]  Yeah.
[09:54.890 --> 09:55.230]  Nonsense.
[09:55.370 --> 09:57.070]  They're not buying a company to create more jobs.
[09:57.090 --> 09:57.330]  No.
[09:57.470 --> 09:58.350]  I didn't think so.
[09:58.390 --> 10:01.530]  I mean, it would create more jobs in one company and then just get rid of them in the other.
[10:01.690 --> 10:01.950]  Right.
[10:02.170 --> 10:03.990]  So, overall, you'd be losing jobs.
[10:04.190 --> 10:06.190]  Lots of jobs for lawyers and bankers.
[10:06.430 --> 10:06.750]  Oh, yeah.
[10:06.810 --> 10:07.350]  I forgot about that.
[10:10.370 --> 10:10.730]  Go ahead.
[10:10.970 --> 10:11.750]  Yeah, I was really...
[10:11.750 --> 10:12.010]  Oh, wait.
[10:12.070 --> 10:12.730]  Where's your microphone?
[10:12.970 --> 10:13.250]  Hang on.
[10:13.450 --> 10:14.050]  It was there before.
[10:14.210 --> 10:14.410]  Go ahead.
[10:14.630 --> 10:23.050]  I was really surprised that this deal actually got put on hold or got next by the government because they've been really...
[10:23.050 --> 10:34.110]  Like, even in the Democratic administrations, the FCC has been really, like, given into business with the merger of Comcast and...
[10:37.130 --> 10:37.490]  Yeah.
[10:37.570 --> 10:38.270]  Who did they merge with?
[10:38.730 --> 10:39.830]  Bernie, you know who they merged with?
[10:39.930 --> 10:40.290]  Comcast?
[10:40.610 --> 10:40.970]  NBC.
[10:41.530 --> 10:41.590]  Yeah.
[10:41.810 --> 10:41.930]  Yeah.
[10:43.330 --> 10:44.710]  And just stuff like that.
[10:44.830 --> 10:46.190]  Like, they never put up a fight.
[10:46.330 --> 10:48.690]  And even with neutrality, they didn't really put up a fight.
[10:48.790 --> 10:52.530]  But I think the political landscape is kind of changing with Occupy Wall Street.
[10:52.750 --> 10:55.510]  And that's been putting pressure on Washington.
[10:55.730 --> 10:58.850]  So, you think maybe this has something to do with the Occupy Wall Street movement?
[10:58.850 --> 11:01.530]  Well, not just Occupy Wall Street, but, like, the whole...
[11:01.530 --> 11:06.690]  Everything in 2011, it's like the Arab string and everything throughout the world is...
[11:06.690 --> 11:08.310]  It has been a magical year.
[11:08.450 --> 11:08.590]  Yeah.
[11:08.690 --> 11:09.990]  A lot of things have happened.
[11:09.990 --> 11:12.470]  Well, also, you're looking at an industry where there are only four players.
[11:12.710 --> 11:13.630]  And that's, I mean...
[11:13.630 --> 11:14.770]  Well, Comcast with...
[11:16.270 --> 11:20.450]  With cable, it's even less than four because you only have one or two.
[11:20.770 --> 11:26.810]  You have not only a duopoly in the market, at least in whatever market you have, you only have two choices.
[11:27.010 --> 11:27.690]  Yeah, but that's...
[11:27.690 --> 11:29.570]  You're in a particular region, then.
[11:29.790 --> 11:31.050]  Here, it's everywhere in the country.
[11:31.450 --> 11:33.310]  So, I mean, you know, you can...
[11:33.310 --> 11:35.410]  They have rules that they have to follow in general.
[11:35.590 --> 11:42.390]  And so, in this case, I could see how, you know, letting there go from four to three companies in the country is a big move.
[11:42.610 --> 11:43.910]  Well, sorry.
[11:44.190 --> 11:51.310]  Well, there's also another big thing about that going down the line from what RedHack just said, which is you have four companies.
[11:51.450 --> 11:52.410]  People are saying, well, I'll turn to three.
[11:52.410 --> 12:05.350]  And then there's a lot of speculation saying that as soon as that was done, then in order for Verizon and Sprint to stay competitive, that they would then have to merge and that you would end up with just two mobile carriers throughout the entire country.
[12:06.290 --> 12:10.530]  And, you know, it just seems like it could be going down a very dangerous path.
[12:11.570 --> 12:14.570]  So, in this particular industry, it might have just been like the final straw.
[12:14.770 --> 12:17.930]  I mean, ultimately, there are a lot of laws that are meant for consumer protection.
[12:18.070 --> 12:23.270]  So, you know, one would hope that from time to time, they're actually followed.
[12:23.530 --> 12:24.190]  Yeah, yeah.
[12:24.270 --> 12:25.510]  It would be nice.
[12:26.230 --> 12:27.890]  So, Bernie, where do you think this is going to go next?
[12:28.570 --> 12:38.850]  Well, I think AT&T is going to lick their wounds and go back to the drawing board and try to come up with a more plausible argument as to why this is good for everybody.
[12:38.910 --> 12:45.050]  And maybe if there's a next administration, there's a Republican administration, they'll try it then.
[12:45.270 --> 12:49.010]  Frankly, I'm surprised also that this did not just sail through.
[12:49.570 --> 12:57.530]  It shows that actually our government agencies actually did something positive for a change.
[12:57.890 --> 13:01.070]  But let's be clear, though, that it's pretty rare that they do that.
[13:01.290 --> 13:03.090]  But when it does happen, it should be acknowledged.
[13:03.090 --> 13:05.010]  At the same time, yes, I agree.
[13:05.150 --> 13:15.550]  But at the same time as this, they're passing all kinds of laws, all kinds of things that we talk about on this program and that we don't even have time to talk about on this program because there's so many of them that are not in consumers' interest,
[13:15.990 --> 13:17.270]  not in the public's interest.
[13:18.150 --> 13:22.570]  So, you know, give them the credit where it's due, but, you know, not too much credit.
[13:22.730 --> 13:33.610]  Well, I mean, why don't we give them the credit when it happens, like now, and then And when they do something else, we criticize them relentlessly then, rather than always giving the criticism when we give the compliments.
[13:33.610 --> 13:36.390]  That way, it makes it seem like we're actually making progress, perhaps.
[13:36.650 --> 13:37.170]  I don't know.
[13:37.250 --> 13:40.950]  I'm not convinced that we are making progress, net progress.
[13:41.090 --> 13:41.890]  What's the progress here?
[13:41.930 --> 13:44.330]  We're going to continue to have exactly four mobile companies?
[13:44.670 --> 13:45.490]  That's not progress.
[13:45.630 --> 13:46.730]  Well, it's better than having three, isn't it?
[13:46.750 --> 13:47.110]  Yeah, sure.
[13:47.250 --> 13:48.090]  But, you know, progress.
[13:48.370 --> 13:50.770]  I like progress to be progressive.
[13:51.030 --> 13:52.270]  You've got to be positive sometime, though.
[13:52.490 --> 13:56.450]  You know, at some point, we have to try to be happy and say, this is progress.
[13:56.610 --> 13:57.430]  Now we can do better.
[13:57.850 --> 13:59.370]  You know, it's just... I don't know.
[13:59.410 --> 14:02.170]  It seems to be a symptom we fall into of negativity too much.
[14:02.310 --> 14:04.390]  Well, who knows exactly where this is going to go?
[14:04.530 --> 14:09.250]  As was mentioned before, this was a draft that doesn't really have legal weight behind it.
[14:09.350 --> 14:22.330]  As far as we know, it could have just been a mistake that was released, or maybe someone with a conscience that just wanted to throw out the truth about this merger proposal before whatever documentation did come out got censored in whatever ways.
[14:22.330 --> 14:24.130]  We don't know where this will ultimately go.
[14:24.550 --> 14:25.030]  All right.
[14:25.070 --> 14:26.450]  Well, we'll definitely keep an eye on that.
[14:26.590 --> 14:29.450]  But now we can get into something more negative, so it'll make us happy.
[14:30.110 --> 14:30.630]  U.S.
[14:31.050 --> 14:38.570]  authorities have initiated the largest round of domain name seizures yet as part of their continued crackdown on counterfeit and piracy-related websites.
[14:39.810 --> 14:42.350]  Basically, this happened right before Cyber Monday.
[14:42.510 --> 14:47.410]  I think on Cyber Monday, which was two days ago, even more were taken down.
[14:47.630 --> 14:49.930]  And it's really incredible.
[14:50.050 --> 14:53.390]  A lot of counterfeit sites cites selling counterfeit goods, I suppose.
[14:53.890 --> 14:55.630]  But it just shows the power that the U.S.
[14:55.710 --> 15:04.510]  government has to basically take over these domains, or at least... I'm not exactly sure how technically they're doing it.
[15:04.890 --> 15:05.110]  Right, Ike?
[15:05.110 --> 15:08.650]  Well, I was just going to say, I think these seizures were on behalf of Chanel, right?
[15:08.650 --> 15:09.450]  I don't know.
[15:09.650 --> 15:09.770]  Yeah.
[15:10.070 --> 15:15.490]  I think there were 700 domains that were seized because of a lawsuit by Chanel.
[15:15.590 --> 15:16.310]  That was something different.
[15:16.490 --> 15:19.510]  The Chanel thing was with a delisting from Google.
[15:19.770 --> 15:20.090]  Oh, yeah.
[15:20.150 --> 15:20.870]  That's something else.
[15:21.370 --> 15:21.830]  Yeah, bigger story.
[15:22.010 --> 15:22.770]  Yeah, what's that, Barry?
[15:22.770 --> 15:24.450]  I think they seized domains, too.
[15:24.550 --> 15:25.830]  I'm just going to say, that's an even bigger story.
[15:25.950 --> 15:30.030]  It was bad enough that the U.S.
[15:30.170 --> 15:40.470]  Customs, or whatever its current incarnation is, was seizing hundreds of domain names before anybody owning those domain names was convicted of any crime.
[15:41.510 --> 15:55.130]  But apparently earlier this week, a federal judge ordered hundreds of sites de-indexed from Google, Facebook, and other sites, which is... One is, it's just ridiculous to even think you could do that.
[15:55.270 --> 16:11.510]  But here we have a federal court order that says that Chanel, as Mark Redhack just pointed out, that Chanel makes apparently high-end consumer goods, was complaining about a lot of counterfeits available being online.
[16:11.770 --> 16:19.710]  And Chanel hired one expert guy to say, oh, these hundreds of websites are in violation.
[16:19.850 --> 16:34.710]  They bought like three... They made like three internet orders and bought three counterfeit goods and then extrapolated that into hundreds of other websites, and then got them all seized, and then got a judge to sign an order saying that they... that all evidence of these websites,
[16:35.310 --> 16:40.050]  all... everything indexed and... and archived on the internet should be eviscerated.
[16:42.070 --> 16:43.250]  Well, interesting.
[16:43.610 --> 16:47.330]  Bernie, do you know, has there ever been actually an adversarial U.S.
[16:47.450 --> 16:54.810]  legal court proceeding where the people whose domains were getting seized or de-indexed or whatever actually had the opportunity to oppose this?
[16:54.970 --> 17:00.290]  Or is it just something that the ICE is just decreeing to be a new power of theirs?
[17:00.530 --> 17:02.630]  I think that it's just sort of like a decree, as you pointed out.
[17:02.710 --> 17:12.290]  In this case, the domain names were seized before the owners were even made aware of the fact that this might be happening.
[17:12.710 --> 17:14.270]  It was... it was crazy.
[17:14.610 --> 17:19.570]  So these domain owners, who may not even be in the United States, are having U.S.
[17:20.110 --> 17:24.430]  agencies seize their domain names without even the chance to oppose it?
[17:24.730 --> 17:25.170]  Exactly.
[17:25.410 --> 17:26.450]  This seems crazy to me.
[17:26.730 --> 17:27.570]  Yeah, it is pretty crazy.
[17:27.710 --> 17:37.130]  Now, from what I'm looking at here, a federal judge in Nevada agreed that Chanel can seize those domain names and transfer them all to U.S.-based registrar GoDaddy.
[17:37.350 --> 17:41.750]  I don't know why it has to be that particular registrar, but that's apparently what they agreed to do.
[17:41.890 --> 17:58.750]  The judge also, as we said, ordered, quote-unquote, all internet search engines and all social media websites, explicitly naming Facebook, Twitter, Google Plus, Bing, Yahoo, and Google, I guess it's different than Google Plus, to quote-unquote de-index the domain names and to remove them from any search results.
[17:59.790 --> 18:02.030]  Now, according to this story, the case has been a remarkable one.
[18:02.170 --> 18:08.830]  Concerned about counterfeiting, Chanel has filed a joint suit in Nevada against nearly 700 domain names that appear to have nothing in common.
[18:09.030 --> 18:14.290]  When Chanel finds more names, it simply uses the same case and files new requests for more seizures.
[18:15.130 --> 18:18.670]  A recent November 14th order went after an additional 228 sites.
[18:19.030 --> 18:23.450]  None had a chance to contest the request until it was approved, and the names had been seized.
[18:23.670 --> 18:28.290]  I also wonder what the recourse for a domain owner is, if their thing was wrongfully seized.
[18:28.450 --> 18:38.530]  Because in general, when somebody else gets control of a domain, you know, you can file some complaint through some committee, and it goes through arbitration and all that, and it costs thousands of dollars.
[18:38.950 --> 18:49.150]  And I would hope that in this case that there's a, you offensive way to do that, you know, if you rightfully had a domain and it was seized, you know, for the wrong purposes.
[18:49.370 --> 18:54.510]  So I don't know how that works for this kind of situation.
[18:54.870 --> 18:55.090]  Uh-huh.
[18:56.690 --> 19:11.190]  Well, yeah, just to jump in there, something that other people aren't mentioning is that, you know, if this sounds an awful lot like the part, a big part of that new bill that's trying to get passed through the Congress, the SOPA thing, Stop Online Privacy Act,
[19:11.330 --> 19:14.510]  it is.
[19:14.730 --> 19:21.330]  You have a company basically going to the court saying, these guys are infringing in whatever way, or they're doing something we don't like.
[19:21.570 --> 19:25.950]  And the court says, all right, and they seize their domains, de-index them, censor the internet.
[19:26.830 --> 19:34.110]  They're basically pushing it through with a court case law instead of whether, you know, while everyone else is focusing on this big legislation.
[19:34.110 --> 19:50.670]  I also wonder if the order to de-index what, under what that falls, whether that's DMCA or what, because, you know, in the past, basically, you have the, what was it, the fair, safe harbor laws so that if a request was made and the provider takes down the data,
[19:50.810 --> 19:51.690]  then that's okay.
[19:51.870 --> 19:57.270]  So I wonder if this is, you know, under the same kind of thing where they say, well, you have to take it down because of reason X, Y, Z.
[19:57.270 --> 20:04.490]  The DMCA, safe harbor provisions are a special procedure for copyright infringements.
[20:04.490 --> 20:04.770]  Only copyright infringements.
[20:04.810 --> 20:06.350]  They don't apply to anything else.
[20:07.390 --> 20:19.310]  And they're, they're kind of junk anyway, but they're, they're a lot better than just arbitrary, you know, arbitrary control on the behalf of the alleged content owners.
[20:19.310 --> 20:23.030]  Uh, but, but even those provisions are not very good.
[20:23.270 --> 20:33.310]  They, they shift the burden of proof to the, uh, alleged infringer who is in general, someone who has a lot less resources than the, uh, the big media cartels.
[20:33.710 --> 20:43.610]  So those provisions are not very good, but they're a hell of a lot better than just arbitrary powers being granted to giant corporations, which is what's happening here.
[20:44.010 --> 20:48.310]  And there's a, there was a really good quote by a lawyer who I'm going to try to pronounce his name.
[20:48.390 --> 20:48.670]  Okay.
[20:48.710 --> 20:49.730]  Now I know who you're talking about.
[20:49.750 --> 20:50.750]  You want to, you want to read that?
[20:52.250 --> 20:52.890]  Venkat Balasubraman...
[20:52.890 --> 20:53.290]  Yeah.
[20:53.290 --> 20:54.130]  Oh, I almost did it.
[20:54.490 --> 20:56.190]  Uh, Balasubraman...
[20:56.190 --> 20:56.790]  Bramani.
[20:57.050 --> 20:57.370]  Yeah.
[20:58.210 --> 20:58.830]  I'm sorry.
[20:58.910 --> 20:59.350]  I really am.
[21:00.410 --> 21:00.730]  Balasubramani.
[21:01.110 --> 21:01.230]  There.
[21:01.330 --> 21:01.650]  I did it.
[21:02.050 --> 21:02.390]  Uh, yeah.
[21:02.510 --> 21:04.130]  He basically, the quote is this.
[21:04.950 --> 21:05.270]  Wow.
[21:06.370 --> 21:07.150]  Well, he goes on.
[21:07.270 --> 21:07.710]  No, it goes on.
[21:08.370 --> 21:10.010]  That's, I think that's the best part of the quote.
[21:10.010 --> 21:18.650]  But he says, I'm sympathetic to the whack-a-mole problem rights owners face, but this relief is just extraordinarily broad and is on shaky procedural grounds.
[21:18.670 --> 21:26.190]  I'm not sure how this court can direct a registry to change the domain name's registrar of record or for Google to delist a site, but the court does so anyway.
[21:26.210 --> 21:29.170]  This is probably the most problematic aspect of the court's orders.
[21:29.630 --> 21:31.930]  So, is Google even a party to this case?
[21:32.070 --> 21:33.370]  Do they have a chance to oppose it?
[21:33.850 --> 21:34.290]  No.
[21:34.530 --> 21:36.090]  They weren't named in the action.
[21:36.090 --> 21:50.470]  This seems, so, the American system, the American legal system is, as I said before, an adversarial system, which means that the two parties each get to say what they, you know, what they think should be done and the judge decides.
[21:50.670 --> 21:56.690]  But we have only one, and you can, you can disagree about whether that's a great way to run the world or not, but it's the American way.
[21:56.690 --> 22:01.010]  Like, we can go into other countries and kidnap people and bring them here for trial.
[22:01.470 --> 22:04.290]  We can assassinate people all over the place.
[22:04.350 --> 22:04.890]  Wait, we can?
[22:05.030 --> 22:05.310]  Can I?
[22:05.490 --> 22:06.230]  The United States.
[22:06.290 --> 22:09.490]  If you're a member of the United States government or, you know, you work for them, yes, you can do that.
[22:09.950 --> 22:13.630]  You can commit war crimes and not be tried by the International Criminal Court.
[22:13.850 --> 22:15.370]  God forbid anyone tries that.
[22:15.550 --> 22:22.090]  And, yes, you can take over domain names, whether they belong to you or not, any part of the world, because this is America and that's what we do.
[22:22.870 --> 22:23.270]  Yeah.
[22:23.590 --> 22:34.190]  Well, what Mike points out is a very good, is very, I think is very valid because the principles that this legal system is supposed to be based on is the presumption of innocence.
[22:34.570 --> 22:41.590]  So, whoever brings an action against someone has the burden of proof, has to prove why this, you know, why they were right in the first place.
[22:41.750 --> 22:42.830]  It's so 20th century, really.
[22:42.970 --> 22:46.110]  And then the other side is supposed to be able to argue back, defend themselves.
[22:46.110 --> 22:46.850]  We don't do it like that anymore.
[22:46.850 --> 22:48.410]  It slows things down, really.
[22:48.410 --> 22:57.450]  So, in this case, you're talking about something where there's a third party that's done something wrong and then there's an order for somebody else to do something as a result.
[22:57.610 --> 23:05.350]  So, you know, the counterfeiters are the ones committing the crime, let's say, and then, you know, they've asked Facebook and so on to de-index it.
[23:05.450 --> 23:11.410]  So, they're not even part of what's going on, but they are linking to this stuff.
[23:11.610 --> 23:18.010]  For people who are a bit less technical, who are listening to all of this, might be having maybe having a hard time to wrap their mind around this.
[23:18.150 --> 23:31.690]  Just imagine for a second that this in cyberspace happened in physical, you know, real, the space, where someone, where one company claims that another, say, factory is producing some sort of counterfeit goods.
[23:31.950 --> 23:40.830]  And then, without any court case going on, the police come in and confess and tell them, all right, you have to, you can't use this business front anymore.
[23:41.010 --> 23:41.930]  Just shut them down.
[23:41.930 --> 23:44.710]  I mean, don't they do that in Chinatown a lot, too?
[23:44.850 --> 23:48.890]  I've seen the, you know, the seizures on, I mean, they do do that with storefronts that sell counterfeit goods.
[23:48.890 --> 23:52.530]  But there is some sort of legal recourse and all sorts of other things that just don't happen here.
[23:52.570 --> 23:53.850]  You just have land being, property being seized.
[23:53.850 --> 23:57.790]  Sure, there's legal recourse, but they close the storefront.
[23:57.870 --> 24:03.030]  They're also in this country where, if you're in a different country, how does that legal recourse work exactly when they shut down your domain?
[24:03.030 --> 24:04.350]  I think that's a bad analogy.
[24:04.590 --> 24:04.890]  Yeah.
[24:04.890 --> 24:05.390]  I tried.
[24:06.110 --> 24:06.850]  I'm trying.
[24:07.110 --> 24:07.230]  I'm trying.
[24:07.910 --> 24:10.890]  You were just talking about a seizure of physical goods.
[24:11.050 --> 24:12.110]  This is not that.
[24:12.270 --> 24:14.030]  This is actual speech.
[24:14.350 --> 24:16.430]  This is commercial speech we're talking about.
[24:16.690 --> 24:17.530]  First Amendment stuff.
[24:18.630 --> 24:27.750]  And the government, at the behest of a major corporation, Chanel, is exercising prior restraint of free speech.
[24:27.930 --> 24:29.090]  Well, it's not just speech, though.
[24:29.150 --> 24:30.270]  They are selling things, right?
[24:30.270 --> 24:31.750]  Yes, but that's called commercial speech.
[24:31.910 --> 24:33.170]  There's a lot of case law in this.
[24:33.310 --> 24:36.850]  The Supreme Court has ruled that commercial speech is speech.
[24:37.790 --> 24:39.290]  There's all kinds of cases like that.
[24:39.490 --> 24:54.630]  I want to just use the word alleged a lot more here because these people who are supposedly infringing on Chanel's, I don't know if it's trademarks or what, have not had a chance to show that they may not, in fact, be doing so.
[24:55.030 --> 24:57.630]  This is a totally one-sided proceeding.
[24:57.630 --> 25:05.450]  And to even accept the Chanel part of the story that these people are actually infringing, I think is a huge mistake here.
[25:05.850 --> 25:15.830]  And even if they were infringing, they could have had a huge door and only been selling one of the products had been infringing, and still they would have been taken down.
[25:15.830 --> 25:24.410]  I just wonder if they get some kind of legal paper in addition to having their domain seized saying, this is what you're being accused of, and if there's ever any other prosecution that happens afterwards.
[25:25.330 --> 25:25.950]  You know, that's...
[25:25.950 --> 25:26.630]  We should follow up on this.
[25:26.730 --> 25:27.010]  I'm sorry?
[25:27.150 --> 25:28.930]  We should follow up on this and see where it goes.
[25:29.070 --> 25:29.290]  Yeah, totally.
[25:29.470 --> 25:41.450]  Because there's hundreds and hundreds of individuals and companies that were affected by this, and I'm sure one of them will have something to say about it, and we'll try to go through whatever procedures there are, if there are any, and I don't think there are,
[25:41.590 --> 25:43.970]  for getting a domain name back.
[25:44.130 --> 25:44.330]  Yeah.
[25:44.650 --> 25:45.910]  What does Chanel sell anyway?
[25:45.990 --> 25:46.390]  Dog food?
[25:46.550 --> 25:47.130]  I don't even know.
[25:47.750 --> 25:50.010]  I don't want to give them any...
[25:50.010 --> 25:50.650]  Dog food, right?
[25:50.790 --> 25:51.070]  I'm correct.
[25:51.070 --> 25:52.970]  They sell stuff that I clearly don't want.
[25:53.110 --> 25:54.070]  Well, no, you don't have a dog.
[25:54.130 --> 25:54.770]  Why would you want that?
[25:55.110 --> 25:55.470]  Exactly.
[25:55.650 --> 25:56.830]  I just want to annoy them.
[25:56.970 --> 25:57.870]  I know they're out there somewhere.
[25:58.530 --> 25:58.890]  Okay.
[25:59.110 --> 26:00.850]  Well, go ahead, and we'll close this one.
[26:00.890 --> 26:02.550]  I'm just going to propose a question.
[26:02.550 --> 26:11.710]  If they were to sue and successfully get their domain name back, if this is even possible, I mean, do you think it would be possible for them to sue for lost revenue, et cetera, you know, Chanel?
[26:11.970 --> 26:14.390]  Well, yeah, but whether they win or not, that's...
[26:14.390 --> 26:14.770]  No, I know.
[26:14.830 --> 26:15.450]  I'm just asking...
[26:15.450 --> 26:17.850]  If we took down Chanel's website, do you think they might try that?
[26:17.950 --> 26:18.070]  Right.
[26:18.070 --> 26:19.810]  Yeah, I think that's exactly what they should do.
[26:19.810 --> 26:24.130]  Then I hope that there are some legitimate domains that were shut down among the alleged.
[26:24.170 --> 26:34.210]  If you're one of the hundreds or thousands of domain name owners that have been shut down, then write to us, OTH at 2600.com, and we can help you navigate your way through the legal system and get what's yours.
[26:34.710 --> 26:35.270]  All right.
[26:35.990 --> 26:39.070]  Here's something else that's rather interesting, rather troubling.
[26:40.090 --> 26:43.950]  A headline, kind of an hysterical headline in Wired, but again, we get that a lot.
[26:44.490 --> 26:47.890]  Researchers' video shows secret software on millions of phones logging everything.
[26:49.030 --> 26:50.050]  Okay, but you know what?
[26:50.050 --> 26:50.690]  It might be true.
[26:50.690 --> 27:05.550]  The Android developer who raised the ire of a mobile phone monitoring company last week is on the attack again, producing a video of how the Carrier IQ software secretly installed on millions of mobile phones reports most everything a user does on a phone.
[27:05.690 --> 27:20.470]  Though the software is installed on most modern Android, Blackberry, and Nokia phones, Carrier IQ was virtually unknown until 25-year-old Trevor Eckert of Connecticut analyzed its workings, revealing that the software secretly chronicles a user's phone experience.
[27:20.470 --> 27:24.950]  Ostensibly, so carriers and phone manufacturers can do quality control.
[27:25.390 --> 27:32.290]  But now he's released a video actually showing the logging of text messages, encrypted web searches, and you name it.
[27:32.650 --> 27:41.790]  He labeled the software a rootkit, and the Mountain View, California-based software maker threatened him with legal action and huge money damages.
[27:42.110 --> 27:47.890]  The Electronic Frontier Foundation came to his aid last week, and the company backed off on its threats.
[27:48.190 --> 27:49.050]  Thank God they're around.
[27:49.050 --> 28:04.410]  The company told Wired last week that Carrier IQ's wares are for gathering information off the handset to understand the mobile user experience, where phone calls are dropped, where signal quality is poor, why applications crash, and battery life.
[28:04.590 --> 28:06.990]  The company denies its software locks keystrokes.
[28:07.490 --> 28:11.310]  Eckert's 17-minute video clearly undercuts that claim.
[28:11.310 --> 28:14.490]  So, very interesting set of developments here.
[28:14.570 --> 28:16.370]  So, how do I find out if I have this on my phone?
[28:17.170 --> 28:18.310]  I have an Android phone.
[28:18.590 --> 28:18.910]  Okay.
[28:19.150 --> 28:19.530]  Well, supposedly...
[28:19.530 --> 28:20.810]  I don't want to be logged all the time.
[28:20.990 --> 28:22.190]  Yeah, I'm looking for that information.
[28:22.290 --> 28:23.210]  I don't have an Android phone.
[28:23.270 --> 28:27.250]  Otherwise, I'd be looking into this right now, but I'm sure there's a way.
[28:27.330 --> 28:29.550]  If you go to that video, he probably tells you how to find it.
[28:29.870 --> 28:32.890]  It's called Carrier IQ, but he said it was hidden.
[28:33.090 --> 28:34.150]  Redhack is looking right now.
[28:34.150 --> 28:34.930]  Are you looking on your iPhone?
[28:35.170 --> 28:35.730]  I'm looking.
[28:35.910 --> 28:37.030]  I'll tell you if I find anything.
[28:37.290 --> 28:37.450]  Uh-huh.
[28:37.650 --> 28:37.890]  Okay.
[28:38.050 --> 28:41.930]  And then, yeah, see if we can catch it logging things.
[28:42.090 --> 28:48.790]  But, yeah, well, it's something, obviously, that I think companies would want to do if they had the opportunity.
[28:48.850 --> 28:51.370]  But the question is, can you do this and get away with it?
[28:51.550 --> 28:52.710]  I'm just going to say this once.
[28:52.710 --> 29:06.650]  This is why, you know, this open source software OS movement on phones really needs to continue moving forward, because people really need to have a better idea of what's running on their devices, rather than this closed black box.
[29:07.370 --> 29:07.650]  Mm-hmm.
[29:08.150 --> 29:16.090]  But Android is relatively open as mobile phone OSs go, and people still have no idea what's on their phones, still have no way to know what's going on on their phones.
[29:16.110 --> 29:18.690]  And carriers can modify it as they so choose.
[29:18.690 --> 29:28.590]  That's the problem, is that the OS itself, a lot of the source code is open, but once it's on your phone, the phone is locked down, and then you must still break the software locks.
[29:28.710 --> 29:31.690]  Well, who puts this CarrierIQ software on there in the first place?
[29:31.830 --> 29:34.610]  Does it come with Android, or do you have to download it yourself?
[29:34.830 --> 29:38.650]  The device manufacturers and or the mobile phone networks.
[29:38.950 --> 29:39.130]  Uh-huh.
[29:39.230 --> 29:47.430]  So, I mean, that's where to start, is to find out who put it on your phone and ask them some pointed questions about it and see just what they say and what they know.
[29:47.430 --> 29:58.350]  Well, this kind of thing, whether it's manufacturer or distributed root kits or just other sorts of viruses, you're going to start to see more about this in the news as time goes on.
[29:58.470 --> 30:06.450]  Because many, many, many people have mobile devices and they're all getting smarter and being able to do more and are more exploitable.
[30:06.450 --> 30:09.030]  We'll have more to begin.
[30:09.310 --> 30:09.490]  Yeah.
[30:09.490 --> 30:09.970]  All right.
[30:10.150 --> 30:11.010]  Moving on.
[30:11.190 --> 30:12.610]  More privacy issues.
[30:12.750 --> 30:12.930]  The U.S.
[30:13.050 --> 30:20.990]  Federal Trade Commission said yesterday that Facebook has agreed to settle charges that have misled users about its use of their personal information.
[30:21.290 --> 30:24.650]  The social network with 800 million users worldwide.
[30:25.030 --> 30:25.710]  Good Lord.
[30:25.810 --> 30:27.870]  That's more in the population of this whole country.
[30:28.750 --> 30:39.310]  They've, it's like double, has faced repeated complaints from users that had changed policies to disclose more of their personal information without adequate notice from the company.
[30:39.530 --> 30:48.630]  The FTC in an eight-count complaint alleged that Facebook, on several occasions, has made promises of privacy to users that it didn't keep.
[30:48.630 --> 31:05.690]  The settlement stems in part from charges Facebook made in its, I'm sorry, changes Facebook made in its privacy settings in December of 2009 to make aspects of users' profiles, such as name, picture, city, gender, friends list, to make all that public by default.
[31:06.110 --> 31:11.690]  The FTC said Facebook didn't warn users the change was coming or obtain their approval.
[31:11.970 --> 31:20.670]  Among the other charges, the FTC said Facebook promised users it wouldn't share their personal information with advertisers, but did so anyway.
[31:20.990 --> 31:31.070]  The agency also said Facebook shared much of the users' data with third-party applications, despite its representation that such data sharing would be very limited.
[31:31.790 --> 31:36.470]  So under the proposed settlement, Facebook would be barred from making misrepresentations.
[31:37.910 --> 31:39.290]  Why is this a new thing?
[31:39.590 --> 31:42.690]  They're barred from making, you mean they were allowed to make misrepresentations before?
[31:42.910 --> 31:44.910]  Well, they clearly felt allowed, but...
[31:44.910 --> 31:45.530]  Oh, boy.
[31:45.530 --> 31:46.290]  Okay.
[31:46.390 --> 31:57.510]  So they won't be allowed to make misrepresentations about the privacy of consumers' personal information, and it must obtain consumers' approval before it changes the way it shares that data.
[31:58.050 --> 32:07.690]  The settlement also requires that Facebook obtain periodic reviews of its privacy practices by an independent auditor for the next 20 years.
[32:07.970 --> 32:10.430]  Why don't the Feds seize Facebook.com?
[32:10.430 --> 32:15.350]  It's clear that Facebook has broken far more laws than these alleged Chanel people.
[32:15.950 --> 32:19.050]  Why don't they just seize Facebook.com without a court proceeding?
[32:19.190 --> 32:20.910]  Well, why don't they tell Google to delist Facebook?
[32:21.030 --> 32:22.970]  Maybe that would sort of solve a lot of problems.
[32:23.070 --> 32:32.790]  Did you see, though, that Mark Zuckerberg had made some comment about how on the FCC, the page that showed that this, you know, the FCC's decision, or...
[32:33.550 --> 32:34.030]  FCC.
[32:34.270 --> 32:34.950]  FCC, sorry.
[32:35.430 --> 32:39.190]  It said, you know, like us on Facebook at the bottom.
[32:39.510 --> 32:39.910]  Did it?
[32:40.050 --> 32:40.170]  Yeah.
[32:41.150 --> 32:45.290]  Well, you know, what people don't really realize here is that we are their...
[32:45.290 --> 32:48.790]  the product as far as these types of sites are concerned.
[32:50.090 --> 32:55.930]  The users who access these sites and their information is sold to marketers and other advertisers.
[32:56.210 --> 32:57.370]  We are their product.
[32:57.510 --> 33:02.590]  You know, we don't like it, but they're going to keep on trying to do this because they're trying to make money and that's how they do it.
[33:03.210 --> 33:19.350]  To return to Redhack's point, though, my previous comment notwithstanding, I think what people want is not actually the end of Facebook, but people want to be able to use these products and still control their privacy and understand what's going to happen when they do click that like button on the FTC page.
[33:19.630 --> 33:23.210]  And I don't think that's an unreasonable request, but Facebook seems to.
[33:23.570 --> 33:26.390]  Yeah, but you know what I think we might be missing here, a lot of us.
[33:26.610 --> 33:27.770]  We care about privacy.
[33:27.770 --> 33:29.350]  We know a lot of people who do care about privacy.
[33:29.450 --> 33:31.610]  I think most people don't care about privacy anymore.
[33:31.610 --> 33:40.010]  I think people just want to advertise their presence and be all exhibitionist about their lives, and they really couldn't care less.
[33:40.070 --> 33:40.910]  Well, people tried.
[33:41.150 --> 33:49.490]  There was that, you know, that diaspora platform to have some more control over social networking, and that thing went over like a lead balloon.
[33:50.450 --> 33:51.370]  I disagree.
[33:51.490 --> 33:53.190]  I think people really do care about their privacy.
[33:53.370 --> 33:54.190]  People we know do.
[33:54.190 --> 33:55.870]  People want to be...
[33:55.870 --> 34:03.590]  Have talked to any adult or even kids, sure they can be exhibitionists, but they're selective about what they exhibit.
[34:03.810 --> 34:14.790]  Okay, when you go outside afterwards, I was going to grab the first person off the street and say, do you care that your name is known to people on Facebook and that your list of friends and where you were last week or something like that?
[34:15.070 --> 34:18.470]  I just think too many people, if not most people, too many people don't care.
[34:18.590 --> 34:20.170]  Or maybe they're just not educated enough.
[34:20.350 --> 34:21.650]  They just don't necessarily understand.
[34:21.650 --> 34:25.490]  Plenty of people, you know, don't seem to care, but like you said, they do care.
[34:25.490 --> 34:30.490]  If they realize how far their information goes in ways they didn't really expect it to.
[34:30.910 --> 34:31.110]  Uh-huh.
[34:31.350 --> 34:35.530]  I'm just blown away by how many people use these sites in the first place.
[34:35.570 --> 34:37.350]  And I guess that's what makes me conclude this.
[34:38.270 --> 34:41.150]  When I first looked at Facebook, that was my conclusion.
[34:41.530 --> 34:43.130]  Obviously, your information is going to get out.
[34:43.270 --> 34:50.850]  Obviously, there are going to be violations, and you're doing a privatized work for them by simply telling people all this information.
[34:51.290 --> 34:54.690]  It's really hard to control it once it's out there.
[34:54.770 --> 34:56.270]  And once it's out there, it's out there for good, too.
[34:57.710 --> 34:58.170]  All right.
[34:58.230 --> 34:59.350]  I guess that's the last word on that.
[35:00.470 --> 35:04.090]  We'll be taking phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[35:04.090 --> 35:07.650]  Let's first look at some listener mail, because we haven't done this in a while.
[35:08.010 --> 35:08.490]  Hi there.
[35:08.650 --> 35:12.130]  My name's Alex, and I'm a reader of the quarterly and first-time listener.
[35:12.350 --> 35:19.090]  I was told that your site and content may have a little bit of information on unlocking AT&T-tethered phones.
[35:20.650 --> 35:21.490]  What about this?
[35:22.070 --> 35:25.770]  iPhone, possibly without the option of jailbreaking them to do so.
[35:26.450 --> 35:34.190]  I do know it all boils down to the NCK unlock code that matches the iPhone's IMEI to unlock the device.
[35:34.190 --> 35:36.830]  I'm not sure if I have to enter it in some form of terminal mode.
[35:36.830 --> 35:47.850]  I need to find that way to take back what belongs to me so I can choose whichever GSM cell service I see fit for my phone, and not some greedy companies whose exclusivity rights have already met their end.
[35:48.070 --> 35:51.430]  If there's any info or tidbits of info you might have, please let me know.
[35:51.870 --> 35:54.630]  Bernie, I believe you had an answer for Alex on this.
[35:54.710 --> 36:05.590]  Yeah, well, unlocking a phone so it's no longer married to the carrier that you bought it from really doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the so-called jailbreaking, like if it's an iPhone, for instance.
[36:06.150 --> 36:07.330]  It's a different process.
[36:07.490 --> 36:11.610]  It has nothing to do with the phone's operating system.
[36:11.910 --> 36:16.250]  But there's lots of information online on how to do that.
[36:16.330 --> 36:21.310]  But I'm amazed how many storefront operations there are that I've seen in New York and Philadelphia.
[36:21.510 --> 36:29.770]  You can just walk in there with your phone and they will unlock it for a fee, like 50 bucks or whatever, so that you can use it on...
[36:29.770 --> 36:34.270]  And this really only is really generally useful for GSM phones, so you can use it on...
[36:35.490 --> 36:38.150]  You can use it for CDMA, but there's issues.
[36:38.310 --> 36:45.750]  But for GSM phones, it's very useful because you can go to other countries and use your phone without paying AT&T or T-Mobile huge international fees.
[36:45.910 --> 36:52.990]  Yeah, I'm just amazed that people accept that fact that phones are locked by default now and that you have to pay somebody to unlock it.
[36:53.190 --> 36:54.550]  They should always be unlocked.
[36:54.550 --> 36:57.190]  They should never even be an issue as far as I'm concerned.
[36:57.330 --> 36:58.030]  It's that way in Europe, I don't believe.
[36:58.270 --> 36:58.870]  I'm sorry, what?
[36:59.310 --> 37:00.630]  I don't believe it's that way in Europe.
[37:00.750 --> 37:02.350]  When you get a phone in Europe...
[37:02.350 --> 37:04.810]  Well, it is in some situations.
[37:05.070 --> 37:05.910]  Yeah, not all of them, no.
[37:06.070 --> 37:22.130]  Even if you do manage to get your iPhone unlocked, at least with GSM, unfortunately the frequency that the iPhone uses for 3G data, AT&T is the only one that offers that.
[37:22.130 --> 37:24.530]  Yeah, that's another way of limiting what people do.
[37:24.590 --> 37:28.830]  So if you go to alternative carrier like T-Mobile, you'll be stuck on slower data issues.
[37:29.810 --> 37:30.790]  I was gonna...
[37:30.790 --> 37:31.210]  No, never mind.
[37:31.430 --> 37:36.410]  Well, that's something that you have to look at for your specific phone and what frequencies it supports.
[37:36.430 --> 37:40.930]  It might actually support more bands than maybe the carrier uses, but, you know, you have to do research.
[37:41.130 --> 37:42.310]  That's really situational.
[37:42.410 --> 37:44.430]  Don't say an alternative carrier like T-Mobile.
[37:44.550 --> 37:49.290]  We discussed early, you know, like 20 minutes ago, there are only four phone companies in the United States.
[37:49.290 --> 37:53.150]  There are only two of them that use GSM, AT&T and T-Mobile.
[37:53.270 --> 37:54.850]  You can switch between them, but that's it.
[37:55.230 --> 37:59.370]  Also, the difference between here and in Europe is in Europe, you generally buy the phone.
[37:59.510 --> 38:02.210]  It's not subsidized by the phone company, whereas here it is.
[38:02.350 --> 38:08.730]  So basically them locking it is to try to lock you in so that they get whatever amount they put, you know, paid of the phone.
[38:09.450 --> 38:10.130]  And then some.
[38:10.230 --> 38:12.610]  Whereas there you buy the whole thing and that's it.
[38:13.590 --> 38:15.290]  Okay, let's continue with another letter.
[38:15.890 --> 38:16.510]  You're off the hook.
[38:16.610 --> 38:19.010]  Just heard the AutoJack show a few weeks ago.
[38:19.350 --> 38:22.690]  That was our friend who was arrested at the Occupy Camp in San Diego.
[38:23.210 --> 38:25.290]  Why do cops check for tuberculosis?
[38:26.050 --> 38:27.690]  Is it contagion for other detainees?
[38:28.250 --> 38:29.830]  Since when are cops medically competent?
[38:30.090 --> 38:32.250]  Or even care about people to check for diseases?
[38:32.370 --> 38:34.950]  Do they also check for other contagious diseases?
[38:35.790 --> 38:37.430]  I didn't find much with a quick search.
[38:37.590 --> 38:38.570]  The whole thing is quite curious.
[38:39.170 --> 38:41.010]  That signed Montreal 2600.
[38:41.350 --> 38:42.750]  I guess the whole group up there.
[38:43.590 --> 38:47.950]  Now, Bernie, I know you had something to say about this, about your time in the prison circuit.
[38:47.950 --> 38:49.950]  Yeah, that was a few years ago, back in the 90s.
[38:50.010 --> 38:53.570]  But I went to five different prisons, courtesy of the Secret Service here.
[38:53.750 --> 38:56.830]  And I was tested for tuberculosis in every one of them.
[38:57.310 --> 39:00.150]  But it wasn't an x-ray thing that I had to submit to.
[39:00.250 --> 39:00.570]  They just...
[39:00.570 --> 39:02.130]  You were also in prison, though, not jails.
[39:02.190 --> 39:02.710]  A big difference.
[39:03.430 --> 39:04.510]  Actually, some of them were jails.
[39:05.010 --> 39:06.510]  They moved me around to county facilities.
[39:07.270 --> 39:10.410]  But the bottom line is the TB test.
[39:10.530 --> 39:10.990]  TB is...
[39:10.990 --> 39:13.950]  The reason they test for tuberculosis is it's a highly contagious disease.
[39:14.150 --> 39:19.910]  You've got a lot of people, a lot of them are already sick when they come in there, in close proximity, bad ventilation.
[39:20.650 --> 39:22.810]  They're very unhealthy places that aren't clean.
[39:23.450 --> 39:26.310]  Ventilation systems have loads of mold in them, whatever.
[39:26.490 --> 39:33.250]  So the point is what they do is they're required, I think, by state or federal law to do TB tests on all incoming prisoners.
[39:33.250 --> 39:36.870]  And what I was subjected to was like a little scratch on my arm.
[39:36.970 --> 39:39.470]  They'd pick some sharp metal object, preferably sterile.
[39:39.570 --> 39:40.950]  I don't know if they even sterilized it.
[39:41.030 --> 39:44.650]  But they'd make me bleed a little bit, just scratch the skin.
[39:44.850 --> 39:49.690]  And they put some kind of pathogen on it.
[39:49.770 --> 39:53.850]  And they would see the next day if it turned lumpy or not.
[39:53.990 --> 39:56.150]  And if it didn't, you didn't have tuberculosis.
[39:56.170 --> 39:57.590]  If it did, they quarantined you.
[39:58.730 --> 40:00.290]  And then you're out of luck, I guess.
[40:00.510 --> 40:02.910]  Well, in this particular case, though, they're doing something slightly different.
[40:03.050 --> 40:04.690]  They x-rayed everybody they arrested.
[40:04.850 --> 40:10.170]  And that seems to me to be another way of really frightening people into not wanting to get arrested.
[40:10.910 --> 40:13.750]  It did seem way over the top and way more expensive.
[40:14.070 --> 40:24.570]  And maybe the company got the contract to do that, was just trying to gouge and make people, make the prison facility pay a lot more money to have everybody x-rayed.
[40:24.570 --> 40:26.770]  But that's, like, dangerous when you x-ray people.
[40:27.430 --> 40:31.770]  You know, it's cumulative radiation that's just really on your lungs.
[40:31.770 --> 40:32.330]  It's bad.
[40:32.650 --> 40:34.590]  So it's really surprising.
[40:34.790 --> 40:37.810]  I think Auditjack said he could opt out of it, but then he'd be thrown in solitary.
[40:38.050 --> 40:38.970]  Is that what he said?
[40:39.050 --> 40:40.390]  Yeah, he'd be there a lot longer.
[40:40.530 --> 40:40.830]  Yeah, yeah.
[40:41.130 --> 40:52.630]  I think that in this case, though, that given the fast turnover rate of the people, it wouldn't be possible to do the scratch-on-the-arm TB test, which may have been why they opted for the x-ray, so they could know right away.
[40:52.630 --> 40:55.630]  I'm not saying it's good or right, but that's...
[40:56.230 --> 40:56.610]  Well, yeah.
[40:56.690 --> 41:00.830]  If you do scratching or have a culture that takes time, then maybe a disease could spread.
[41:01.030 --> 41:04.950]  But the other part of his question was asking, why would they do that and not others?
[41:05.210 --> 41:10.950]  The only thing that I could think of is, TB used to be a very big problem if you go back a while.
[41:11.150 --> 41:13.230]  And I don't know how old these laws are.
[41:13.330 --> 41:15.410]  I don't know if maybe Bernie can shed light on that.
[41:15.410 --> 41:22.430]  But, you know, there once was a time where they used to have, you know, entire wards of people with TB, and it might just be a throwback to...
[41:22.950 --> 41:27.270]  Maybe this is a bad idea, but why not get a full medical checkup whenever you're arrested?
[41:27.570 --> 41:31.930]  You know, you kill a whole lot of birds that way because, you know, you arrest too many people.
[41:32.110 --> 41:33.490]  There's too many people in our prison system already.
[41:33.650 --> 41:40.030]  You give them a full, you know, European-style healthcare checkup, and then you take care of all the people that can't get healthcare.
[41:40.030 --> 41:41.730]  All they have to do is get arrested, you know?
[41:41.870 --> 41:44.670]  It's... Everybody wins, right?
[41:45.170 --> 41:49.190]  That's not actually as far from what happens as you are making it out to be.
[41:49.370 --> 42:02.030]  But, look, it's totally sane to screen people who are going into an environment like a prison for tuberculosis because, as Bernie said, it spreads very quickly, particularly in the kinds of environments that prisons are.
[42:02.250 --> 42:03.270]  And the last...
[42:03.270 --> 42:10.250]  Like, if people went into prison and they were all getting tuberculosis, that would be far worse than subjecting them to a tuberculosis test.
[42:11.390 --> 42:16.230]  So, I don't know the differences, why one method would be chosen over the other.
[42:16.390 --> 42:20.730]  But the underlying goal, screen people in jail for tuberculosis, is a good idea.
[42:21.670 --> 42:24.970]  Yeah, but the way they did it was rather frightening.
[42:25.150 --> 42:26.910]  And I think a lot of people are going to object to that.
[42:27.230 --> 42:27.690]  You know, being...
[42:27.690 --> 42:29.590]  You get arrested, you get an immediate x-ray.
[42:29.630 --> 42:31.910]  Look, I object to arresting people who've done nothing wrong.
[42:32.050 --> 42:32.870]  That's the problem here.
[42:32.950 --> 42:36.510]  The problem is not after they are arrested, they want to make sure they don't get TB.
[42:37.850 --> 42:38.690]  Yeah, but...
[42:38.690 --> 42:41.850]  Why not check people when they go into a mall, too?
[42:41.990 --> 42:42.990]  There's a lot of people in there.
[42:43.290 --> 42:43.990]  Or every time they go into...
[42:43.990 --> 42:47.210]  Because people aren't locked into a mall with poor ventilation for 24 hours.
[42:47.350 --> 42:48.110]  That's the difference.
[42:48.510 --> 42:49.830]  People who work there are sometimes.
[42:50.090 --> 42:57.300]  When you get arrested, you don't exactly have the access to the same sorts of rights that you do when you're free.
[42:57.990 --> 42:58.570]  Yeah, I've noticed that.
[42:58.670 --> 42:59.150]  Yeah, that's right.
[42:59.470 --> 43:02.950]  There's court cases on all sorts of things about that.
[43:02.950 --> 43:04.190]  So there's a difference.
[43:04.370 --> 43:08.410]  Doing that in a mall is legally less defensible than in a prison.
[43:08.790 --> 43:09.310]  All right.
[43:09.370 --> 43:12.450]  We could debate this all night long, but we don't have all night to do it.
[43:12.590 --> 43:17.170]  But there are updates on the whole Occupy movement throughout the country.
[43:17.190 --> 43:21.910]  I know in both Los Angeles and Philadelphia, the camps have been broken up.
[43:21.910 --> 43:24.810]  Right before the show, Volta and I walked past Zuccotti.
[43:24.890 --> 43:25.570]  Really, really depressing.
[43:25.770 --> 43:29.570]  There's maybe about 12 people there with signs and about 100 cops.
[43:29.830 --> 43:33.730]  And the whole place just looks so ridiculous and gated off.
[43:33.850 --> 43:37.690]  And it's not the bastion of free speech it once was.
[43:37.870 --> 43:40.170]  But it did happen.
[43:40.390 --> 43:41.390]  The word got out there.
[43:41.450 --> 43:46.950]  I think all of us who were with family at Thanksgiving this year, that came up in conversation at some point.
[43:46.950 --> 43:48.510]  The message got out.
[43:48.890 --> 43:51.850]  And that's something, I think, that needs to be acknowledged and built upon.
[43:53.170 --> 43:57.090]  So, Bernie, I know you've been keeping track of what's going on in Philadelphia.
[43:57.270 --> 43:58.370]  Anything you have to update us with?
[43:58.730 --> 44:03.190]  Yeah, well, for listeners who didn't know, it was Sunday evening at 5 p.m.
[44:03.270 --> 44:06.610]  was the mayor's deadline for people to vacate.
[44:06.690 --> 44:09.030]  And there was ostensibly a good reason for them to vacate.
[44:09.110 --> 44:16.790]  There was a planned construction project, a $50 million construction project that was slated to employ about 1,000 union workers.
[44:16.950 --> 44:18.850]  who are really part of the 99%.
[44:19.270 --> 44:22.750]  And this project had been planned for years, and it was supposed to happen this November.
[44:24.070 --> 44:29.590]  But the Occupy Philly people chose that site anyway, knowing this, instead of a site across the street.
[44:29.710 --> 44:32.410]  And there may have been other reasons for why they chose this site.
[44:32.690 --> 44:34.550]  But they didn't leave.
[44:34.550 --> 44:40.250]  And so I was there Sunday night to see what was going to happen, hanging out with some lawyer friends of mine and providing legal support.
[44:40.910 --> 44:45.290]  And there were a lot of police there, but a lot of media cameras there.
[44:45.290 --> 44:46.810]  But there was no...
[44:46.810 --> 44:47.990]  Nobody was kicked out.
[44:48.350 --> 44:53.950]  But last night, around 1 in the morning, I heard police helicopters flying over my apartment.
[44:54.190 --> 45:10.150]  And I went online, turned on the radio, and sure enough, there was 500 police that came on bicycles, horseback, and on foot, in full riot gear that, you know, quickly evicted everybody from there.
[45:10.310 --> 45:16.510]  There weren't any really arrests that happened that site, but then people started marching a few blocks away.
[45:16.510 --> 45:21.530]  And then around 2 or 3 in the morning, I think about 50 people were arrested for blocking the street or something.
[45:21.790 --> 45:25.190]  So... and the police were like deliberately running into people with bicycles, I heard.
[45:25.390 --> 45:26.410]  So that's not cool.
[45:26.450 --> 45:27.050]  Yeah, they do that.
[45:27.110 --> 45:30.910]  They do that with bicycles and with Vespas and whatever else they can get a hold of.
[45:31.450 --> 45:33.910]  Here's a story, though, having to do with New York.
[45:34.010 --> 45:35.030]  We will go to the phones in just a minute.
[45:35.190 --> 45:36.060]  212-209-2900.
[45:36.690 --> 45:38.670]  And Jim, Jim, I don't know if I introduced you.
[45:38.770 --> 45:39.070]  Hi, Jim.
[45:39.310 --> 45:39.510]  Hi.
[45:39.830 --> 45:40.530]  Sorry about that.
[45:40.850 --> 45:42.310]  He gave us this story earlier.
[45:43.090 --> 45:55.190]  Just the shortest walk from the courtroom, Mark Reed, one of the activists with Occupy Wall Street, had rented an apartment in an old building overlooking the Brooklyn Bridge and the cluster of courts and parks and entrances to the tunnels and the bridges.
[45:56.270 --> 46:00.230]  The one who rented him the apartment, Denise Vega, is a single mother of three children.
[46:00.230 --> 46:02.130]  The apartment was on the 16th floor.
[46:02.730 --> 46:07.450]  When Denise Vega heard what he was doing, she gave him his rent back and didn't ask him to leave.
[46:07.550 --> 46:08.810]  They just gave it back as a donation.
[46:09.350 --> 46:10.930]  Let's show them, she said.
[46:11.770 --> 46:15.610]  Reed had his 12,000-lumen projector set up in his apartment.
[46:15.830 --> 46:18.670]  He aimed it at the nearby Verizon building.
[46:19.050 --> 46:27.130]  He had chosen a spot on the big blank Verizon building that would have the greatest effect on the large crowd of protesters below, a large spot and many floors high.
[46:27.130 --> 46:29.490]  And as you know, that building has no windows.
[46:30.290 --> 46:47.110]  Reed's projector snapped on to show people the rallying cry that most in America and just about all of New York, including the cops and the politicians, the jobless young and old, maybe all these other people that I don't recognize here, that are named.
[46:47.810 --> 46:51.030]  The message was sent 99%.
[46:51.030 --> 46:53.210]  And that's all that had to be projected onto that building.
[46:53.210 --> 46:54.930]  And I think that's really it, you know?
[46:55.110 --> 46:56.730]  It's not about the camps.
[46:56.750 --> 46:57.850]  It's not even about the brutality.
[46:57.850 --> 46:58.970]  It's not about the arrest.
[46:59.110 --> 47:00.290]  It's about getting that message out.
[47:00.470 --> 47:07.830]  And if the message 99% is simply spread around, people will recognize it and will understand that this is not dying.
[47:07.830 --> 47:08.590]  It's going to continue.
[47:09.490 --> 47:12.390]  So hopefully, hopefully, we'll get something positive out of all this.
[47:12.730 --> 47:16.830]  Here's something negative, though, because we do want to present the positive and the negative.
[47:16.830 --> 47:23.670]  We got this letter a couple of weeks ago, right after the Wall Street site here at Zuccotti Park was broken up.
[47:24.350 --> 47:29.230]  It was sent to us, all the people who have donated laptops, and a lot of listeners have done that.
[47:29.630 --> 47:36.650]  You may have gathered that the NYPD have deliberately smashed each and every laptop or piece of computer equipment that they collected during the eviction.
[47:37.570 --> 47:39.130]  There are photographs.
[47:39.370 --> 47:42.650]  We've seen some of the photographs, and it looks like they've all been hit with baseball bats.
[47:43.270 --> 47:47.550]  It's not surprising, but the mayor's office seems to be standing by their story.
[47:47.710 --> 47:55.010]  They kept all the items from the park, quote-unquote, safe for pickup, when every single piece of electronic equipment was obviously methodically smashed.
[47:56.090 --> 48:01.130]  So, yeah, that's ridiculous, and that needs to be documented as well and followed up on.
[48:01.530 --> 48:05.650]  And people are still in need of laptops that are part of the movement.
[48:05.650 --> 48:13.590]  So if you are interested, you can write to us again, OTH at 2600.com, and we'll be happy to pass that along to the appropriate people.
[48:14.470 --> 48:15.250]  What else?
[48:15.890 --> 48:21.410]  Last time, I don't think we mentioned this, but we mentioned the next conference, Hope No.
[48:21.490 --> 48:24.510]  9, taking place July 13, 14, and 15.
[48:24.510 --> 48:28.670]  We actually had our first batch of tickets go on sale.
[48:28.890 --> 48:31.710]  And you know, this is something that I think caught us all by surprise.
[48:31.970 --> 48:37.890]  We had them go on sale along with the Blip TV unveiling of the first Hope Conference back in 1994.
[48:37.890 --> 48:39.050]  The videos went online.
[48:39.650 --> 48:44.550]  But we had a limited number of tickets, and they were sold out in less than two minutes.
[48:44.730 --> 48:46.430]  And I've never seen anything like that before.
[48:46.550 --> 48:47.870]  I've never been involved in anything like that before.
[48:48.130 --> 48:52.170]  We are going to have more tickets available in the next week or two, I believe.
[48:52.970 --> 48:57.670]  So keep checking the website, hope.net or 2600.com for information on that.
[48:58.390 --> 49:03.730]  And I think that's pretty much everything, other than I'm still fuming over the letter I got back from Homeland Security.
[49:03.990 --> 49:04.910]  Have you seen this, Mike?
[49:04.990 --> 49:05.790]  No, you weren't here last week.
[49:05.790 --> 49:07.070]  Yeah, I have a...
[49:07.970 --> 49:09.510]  I have a redress number now.
[49:10.330 --> 49:11.870]  So I don't know if that's going to...
[49:11.870 --> 49:14.190]  I can write that down next time I try to enter the country.
[49:14.490 --> 49:16.930]  They say it's all a big coincidence that it's nothing intentional.
[49:17.090 --> 49:19.210]  Every time I come through the border, I get stopped.
[49:20.010 --> 49:22.930]  So, you know, at this point, I think they're lying to me.
[49:23.410 --> 49:24.230]  Obviously, there's something.
[49:24.330 --> 49:27.450]  They even said so to me in person that there's a reason why they do this.
[49:27.950 --> 49:30.790]  And the only way to find out is to write to them, which I did and got back a form letter.
[49:31.190 --> 49:35.570]  So the next time they do it, I'm open to all sorts of ideas of how to mess with them big time.
[49:35.770 --> 49:39.850]  Like I'm thinking of just going through the border with absolutely no luggage whatsoever and not answering any questions.
[49:39.930 --> 49:44.110]  But I think I don't have to answer any questions and just see what happens, see where it goes from there.
[49:44.210 --> 49:45.030]  All kinds of other things.
[49:45.230 --> 49:46.030]  You'll probably get an x-ray.
[49:46.830 --> 49:47.410]  You know what?
[49:47.470 --> 49:48.350]  I'm ready for an x-ray.
[49:48.470 --> 49:49.230]  I haven't had one in a while.
[49:49.570 --> 49:52.670]  So I was away for the holiday and I was flying back.
[49:52.810 --> 49:57.930]  I flew from Boston to New York, which I don't recommend doing for all kinds of reasons, but it saves money.
[49:57.930 --> 49:58.390]  In New York.
[49:58.650 --> 49:59.850]  When you finish, you're in New York.
[49:59.990 --> 50:00.370]  That's a good thing.
[50:00.490 --> 50:01.110]  Well, that's...
[50:01.110 --> 50:03.710]  But I recommend traveling by just about any other means.
[50:05.410 --> 50:09.050]  But I went through the security and at the front of the line, there's...
[50:10.090 --> 50:14.570]  I could go either left or right to get my stuff x-rayed.
[50:15.250 --> 50:20.450]  And I could see from where I was standing that on the right were the body scanners, on the left weren't.
[50:20.550 --> 50:21.350]  So I went to the left.
[50:21.470 --> 50:22.530]  It seemed very easy.
[50:23.310 --> 50:30.650]  I don't understand why they think that any, you know, any malefactor wouldn't be able to do the same analysis.
[50:30.910 --> 50:31.450]  That's called opting out.
[50:31.510 --> 50:32.170]  You opted out.
[50:32.330 --> 50:34.650]  But I didn't have to get, you know, patted down or anything.
[50:34.730 --> 50:36.730]  I just went through the metal detector and...
[50:36.730 --> 50:40.090]  Well, they haven't quite gotten to that stage yet where they go after the people who opt out.
[50:40.250 --> 50:49.690]  It might be that because you were traveling during a pretty busy time because at any time I've gone to an airport in recent memory, usually there are, say, maybe half of the...
[50:49.690 --> 50:55.510]  there are two lanes or something open and then there's the scanner in the middle and then they kind of decide who they're going to send through that or the metal detectors.
[50:55.890 --> 51:03.070]  But if you were there and they don't have enough scanners because, well, you know, it's Thanksgiving weekend and everybody's traveling, then, yeah, it's pretty easy to skip through that.
[51:03.350 --> 51:03.810]  All right.
[51:03.870 --> 51:04.730]  Let's take some phone calls.
[51:04.810 --> 51:06.310]  212-209-2900.
[51:07.290 --> 51:08.070]  And good evening.
[51:08.070 --> 51:09.370]  You're on Off The Hook.
[51:10.950 --> 51:11.490]  Speak up.
[51:12.850 --> 51:20.490]  Hey, I'd like to say I do care about my privacy and I try to help people understand that their privacy matters too.
[51:22.070 --> 51:22.470]  Cool.
[51:23.370 --> 51:28.230]  Oh, and on the sofa thing, I gotta say, that's just really depressing.
[51:29.110 --> 51:34.390]  And what's even more depressing is when I try to talk to people, like, no one knows about it.
[51:34.570 --> 51:34.810]  Mm-hmm.
[51:35.990 --> 51:37.710]  Yeah, well, that's why you gotta educate people.
[51:37.810 --> 51:39.750]  Now, you said that you care about your privacy.
[51:39.890 --> 51:48.930]  Do you get the feeling that most people, not your friends, not people that you know, but most other people are aware of these privacy issues and really think they're important?
[51:49.770 --> 51:50.010]  No.
[51:50.870 --> 51:51.550]  Sadly, no.
[51:51.770 --> 51:52.390]  Sadly, no.
[51:52.570 --> 51:55.830]  Because I know we're gonna get all kinds of calls and letters from people saying, yeah, I care about my privacy.
[51:56.010 --> 51:57.070]  I know our listeners care.
[51:57.170 --> 51:57.690]  I know that.
[51:57.910 --> 52:00.610]  It's all those other people that don't think twice about it.
[52:00.710 --> 52:07.350]  The consumers, you know, the people that stampede each other on Black Friday, they don't really care about their privacy.
[52:07.650 --> 52:28.410]  Do you know there are applications on smartphones, I was hearing about this the other night, that tracked where people went inside stores and companies are able to read, not necessarily pinpointed to a person, but read the information and say, okay, everybody went back to the electronics section within a minute of coming into the store and they basically know where people went so they can market
[52:28.410 --> 52:30.950]  more effectively, I suppose, in the future.
[52:31.090 --> 52:33.890]  It's kind of scary what these smartphones are capable of.
[52:33.930 --> 52:35.450]  Well, that shouldn't be surprising to you.
[52:35.630 --> 52:44.530]  I mean, that's actually something that we at Hope were kind of showcasing with the badge tracking system that was there for the past two conferences.
[52:44.770 --> 52:46.310]  Yeah, but we weren't encouraging Black Friday behavior.
[52:46.630 --> 52:53.210]  No, but it's kind of to give people an idea of what's coming and how you can play with it and what is capable of being done with it.
[52:53.810 --> 53:00.750]  And actually, since you mentioned Hope just a little while ago, it's like, yeah, see, you go there, you might find out about these things years before they actually happen.
[53:01.090 --> 53:01.610]  Quite possible.
[53:02.070 --> 53:02.850]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[53:02.910 --> 53:04.270]  Good evening, you're on Off The Hook.
[53:04.870 --> 53:05.790]  Yes, hi, I'm waiting.
[53:06.270 --> 53:09.430]  Hi, you're going to have to pick up the phone because the squeal and speakerphone combined.
[53:09.910 --> 53:10.270]  Okay.
[53:10.530 --> 53:11.350]  Yes, what's on your mind?
[53:12.910 --> 53:14.270]  Oh, actually, I want...
[53:14.270 --> 53:15.350]  Just hold one sec, please.
[53:15.630 --> 53:16.890]  Yeah, also turn down your radio.
[53:17.030 --> 53:18.430]  Boy, this guy, I got to tell him everything.
[53:18.850 --> 53:21.970]  Turn down the radio, don't use speakerphone, and let's try and speak over the squeal.
[53:23.070 --> 53:23.510]  You there?
[53:23.810 --> 53:24.770]  I think you put you on hold.
[53:24.830 --> 53:25.410]  Okay, you know what?
[53:25.410 --> 53:25.990]  We don't have time for this.
[53:26.070 --> 53:27.150]  Good evening, you're on Off The Hook.
[53:28.570 --> 53:30.970]  Hey, I guess we got disconnected.
[53:31.830 --> 53:33.210]  No, we tried to move on to another call.
[53:33.270 --> 53:33.810]  Do you have another point?
[53:35.530 --> 53:36.510]  Also, I'd like to...
[53:36.510 --> 53:37.710]  Can you do me a favor?
[53:38.370 --> 53:38.970]  Yeah, anything.
[53:39.510 --> 53:41.090]  Can I say something about...
[53:41.590 --> 53:50.010]  Oh, I want to mention, everyone from the 2600 IRC channel Off The Hook, they want you to come in sometime.
[53:50.230 --> 53:50.990]  It'd be cool to talk to you.
[53:51.130 --> 53:52.030]  Okay, I'd like to do that.
[53:52.130 --> 53:54.510]  How can I possibly go into the IRC channel while I'm on the radio?
[53:54.630 --> 53:55.230]  That's the problem.
[53:56.190 --> 53:56.910]  Any time, though.
[53:56.930 --> 53:58.590]  All right, maybe I'll pop in at some point.
[53:59.090 --> 54:01.530]  Lately, my IRC sessions have really been pretty idle.
[54:01.610 --> 54:02.630]  But thanks, thanks for that call.
[54:03.230 --> 54:05.090]  And let's try and get some other calls on the line.
[54:05.150 --> 54:06.290]  Good evening, you're on Off The Hook.
[54:06.790 --> 54:07.450]  Yeah, hello?
[54:07.690 --> 54:08.330]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[54:08.630 --> 54:13.190]  I just wanted to find out, bro, what about the TVVCon premium, bro?
[54:13.250 --> 54:14.130]  When are you guys going to get it?
[54:14.270 --> 54:16.410]  Okay, so I knew somebody was going to call about this.
[54:16.590 --> 54:21.210]  We have been trying to get all the premium information from the station as far as what to send to whom.
[54:21.690 --> 54:24.230]  We've been trying this for weeks, and you have my pledge.
[54:24.230 --> 54:27.250]  We are not going to be asking for more money until it's ironed out.
[54:27.430 --> 54:28.690]  All right, so we are trying.
[54:28.850 --> 54:29.550]  We're trying really hard.
[54:29.690 --> 54:31.850]  If you have not gotten your premium, write to us.
[54:31.990 --> 54:34.970]  All right, everybody out there who has not gotten the premium from us.
[54:35.150 --> 54:41.210]  And let's not count the last fund drive, which is Autumn, which took place in October, because that's still rather recent.
[54:41.330 --> 54:42.010]  It's only last month.
[54:42.310 --> 54:55.870]  But the several before then, if you're still on the list, write to us, and you have my promise that we will deal with it, we will make sure the right people know about it, and we will have all of this taken care of before we go on the air again, asking for your support,
[54:55.970 --> 54:56.070]  okay?
[54:56.330 --> 54:57.130]  All right, okay.
[54:57.210 --> 54:58.070]  All right, sorry about all that.
[54:58.070 --> 55:02.970]  It does happen sometimes, but you have our word that in the end, everybody gets what's coming to them.
[55:03.050 --> 55:04.730]  And I don't mean that the sound is negative as it did.
[55:05.230 --> 55:05.870]  Good evening.
[55:06.050 --> 55:06.690]  You're on Off The Hook.
[55:07.410 --> 55:07.970]  Yes, hello.
[55:08.230 --> 55:08.930]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[55:09.510 --> 55:17.570]  I just wanted to know if somebody could advise me about a cell phone that I can call long distance on that can't be traced.
[55:18.350 --> 55:19.030]  Ah, okay.
[55:19.130 --> 55:20.110]  You want to make one of those calls?
[55:20.250 --> 55:23.470]  Well, Bernie, any advice on this?
[55:23.630 --> 55:28.210]  You don't want to be traced, or you don't want the person you're calling to see your number?
[55:28.430 --> 55:28.910]  I know.
[55:29.150 --> 55:30.150]  I got the phone.
[55:31.270 --> 55:46.210]  A person gave me a second phone, and I'm traveling with this back and forth, and my landlord has used it against me in court, saying that I haven't spent enough time in my apartment.
[55:46.510 --> 55:49.990]  I want to buy a separate phone that I can use as long distance.
[55:50.230 --> 55:57.590]  That's simple enough to just be used long distance and not be...
[55:57.590 --> 56:00.810]  Do you have a Wi-Fi, wireless internet in your home?
[56:00.990 --> 56:02.090]  I don't have anything.
[56:02.470 --> 56:02.650]  Okay.
[56:02.890 --> 56:05.130]  Well, you could just buy one of these prepaid phones.
[56:05.270 --> 56:06.190]  A prepaid, okay.
[56:06.190 --> 56:06.770]  A prepaid phone.
[56:06.950 --> 56:10.130]  You're going to pay a little bit more because you're doing that.
[56:10.330 --> 56:10.670]  Okay.
[56:11.670 --> 56:15.510]  An alternative, but it has to be a cell phone that you use outside of your apartment, you mean?
[56:16.210 --> 56:21.630]  Well, going into New York, I don't have long distance for upstate two hours...
[56:21.630 --> 56:23.110]  Bernie, you have 20 seconds to solve your problem.
[56:23.350 --> 56:26.310]  The landlord subpoenaed your cell phone records and is using this against you?
[56:26.650 --> 56:27.990]  No, you're not quite...
[56:27.990 --> 56:29.310]  I guess...
[56:29.310 --> 56:32.230]  I can't claim that, but...
[56:32.230 --> 56:32.510]  Wow.
[56:32.630 --> 56:34.610]  I feel watched and...
[56:34.610 --> 56:35.510]  Get a friend...
[56:35.510 --> 56:40.830]  Get a friend of yours who trusts you to get a cell phone in their name and then you can use that phone and pay them.
[56:41.510 --> 56:43.090]  Don't give the number to the landlord.
[56:43.330 --> 56:44.490]  Yeah, let's try that.
[56:44.610 --> 56:45.830]  Thanks, good luck with that.
[56:46.130 --> 56:46.770]  We mean it.
[56:46.770 --> 56:49.810]  Write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:50.010 --> 56:50.690]  And if you have...
[56:50.690 --> 56:55.910]  If you have more Occupy songs to suggest to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:56.030 --> 56:58.510]  Tonight's feature from DJ Teen Wolf.
[56:58.650 --> 56:59.330]  We'll see you next week.
[56:59.430 --> 56:59.610]  Good night.
[56:59.610 --> 57:00.570]  It
[57:20.470 --> 57:24.310]  ain't my fault that I can't get a job.
[57:24.570 --> 57:29.090]  These crooks on Wall Street are worse than a mob.
[57:29.530 --> 57:33.890]  They take our money, give themselves a raise.
[57:34.450 --> 57:38.930]  I ain't on welfare, so why is my bank?
[57:40.670 --> 57:43.410]  Occupy Wall Street.
[57:45.750 --> 57:48.470]  Occupy your town.
[57:50.670 --> 57:52.830]  Occupy DC.
[57:53.430 --> 57:54.630]  Come on, we gotta...
[57:54.630 --> 57:57.890]  Occupy Wall Street.
[57:58.930 --> 58:03.090]  The politicians have all been bought off.
[58:03.570 --> 58:08.230]  There's no way we can win without taking a loss.
[58:08.230 --> 58:12.890]  We gotta go out and take this country back.
[58:13.490 --> 58:17.390]  There's no time for us to slack.
[58:19.050 --> 58:22.230]  Occupy Wall Street.
[58:24.270 --> 58:27.330]  Occupy your town.
[58:29.170 --> 58:31.630]  Occupy DC.
[58:31.630 --> 58:34.110]  Come on, we gotta...
[58:34.110 --> 58:36.710]  Occupy Wall Street.
[58:37.370 --> 58:41.530]  The status quo won't understand.
[58:42.510 --> 58:45.790]  Until we raise our voices and...
[58:47.620 --> 58:51.360]  They change the taxes and they change the way.
[58:52.400 --> 58:56.200]  This country works, everybody's gotta pay.
[58:58.100 --> 59:00.940]  Occupy Wall Street.
[59:03.040 --> 59:05.840]  Occupy your town.
[59:07.880 --> 59:10.420]  Occupy DC.
[59:11.000 --> 59:12.300]  Come on, we gotta...
[59:12.940 --> 59:15.520]  Occupy Wall Street.
[59:17.320 --> 59:20.360]  Occupy Wall Street.
[59:22.320 --> 59:25.240]  Occupy your town.
[59:27.100 --> 59:29.820]  Occupy DC.
[59:29.880 --> 59:31.680]  Come on, we gotta...
[59:31.680 --> 59:34.920]  Occupy Wall Street.
[59:57.030 --> 59:58.430]  Occupy...
[01:00:01.670 --> 01:00:03.070]  Occupy...
[01:00:05.910 --> 01:00:08.110]  Occupy DC.
[01:00:10.490 --> 01:00:13.610]  Occupy Wall Street.
[01:00:14.630 --> 01:00:14.990]  Occupy
[01:00:42.330 --> 01:00:42.330]  your town.
[01:00:43.110 --> 01:00:45.170]  Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[01:00:45.530 --> 01:00:48.670]  Okay, you're listening to WBAI New York.