[00:00.750 --> 00:03.730]  And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI New York.
[00:03.910 --> 00:05.530]  The time is just about 7 o'clock.
[00:05.990 --> 00:07.470]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:12.620 --> 00:14.600]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:14.880 --> 00:17.140]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:18.060 --> 00:20.120]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:20.720 --> 00:22.640]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:23.220 --> 00:25.440]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:27.600 --> 00:28.010]  They would.
[00:28.240 --> 00:30.900]  But the best expect the worst.
[00:31.440 --> 00:33.400]  I hope that's understood.
[01:58.210 --> 02:00.050]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:00.170 --> 02:01.730]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:01.730 --> 02:04.710]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:04.770 --> 02:05.890]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:06.090 --> 02:06.550]  Good evening.
[02:07.130 --> 02:07.570]  Rob T.
[02:07.710 --> 02:08.130]  Firefly.
[02:08.370 --> 02:08.790]  Good evening.
[02:09.310 --> 02:11.130]  And down in Philadelphia, Bernie S.
[02:11.650 --> 02:12.770]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:13.130 --> 02:14.910]  No, Bernie, you brought the squeal with you again.
[02:15.250 --> 02:16.470]  Oh, I didn't bring it.
[02:16.670 --> 02:17.930]  Well, it wasn't here before.
[02:18.550 --> 02:19.330]  Oh, yeah, it was.
[02:19.730 --> 02:21.490]  Listen, Bernie is leaving us now.
[02:21.730 --> 02:22.410]  No squeal.
[02:22.630 --> 02:23.490]  Bernie's here now.
[02:24.030 --> 02:24.230]  Squeal.
[02:24.330 --> 02:24.490]  Okay.
[02:24.690 --> 02:25.370]  Well, I didn't bring it.
[02:25.470 --> 02:26.490]  Maybe it's in the board.
[02:26.850 --> 02:30.090]  Well, regardless of where it is, Bernie, we're going to always associate it with you.
[02:30.530 --> 02:31.650]  So... I don't squeal.
[02:31.730 --> 02:33.270]  I have an established record.
[02:33.390 --> 02:34.370]  I don't squeal on anybody.
[02:35.410 --> 02:36.690]  Well, that's probably a good thing.
[02:36.910 --> 02:39.490]  And here on Off the Hook, it's definitely an admirable thing.
[02:40.470 --> 02:43.030]  Well, we... This is going to be a challenge, folks.
[02:43.150 --> 02:45.110]  We have a skeleton crew tonight.
[02:45.830 --> 02:49.390]  And it's a... It's a one-night fundraiser as well.
[02:50.610 --> 02:53.270]  And we don't have any special premiums.
[02:53.390 --> 02:54.930]  We have some station things.
[02:55.050 --> 02:56.330]  We'll get into this in just a little bit.
[02:56.450 --> 02:58.890]  We'll talk about... At length about what's going on.
[02:59.470 --> 03:04.270]  But we sure hope that we come out of this feeling better than we did coming into it.
[03:05.350 --> 03:10.030]  And if you just want to call and make a pledge, 212-209-2950 is our telephone number.
[03:10.030 --> 03:13.730]  Let's first get into the various things that have been going on this week.
[03:14.150 --> 03:20.470]  And there's a story that just... I just found out about prior to the show.
[03:20.650 --> 03:22.330]  It involves our friends over at Mythbusters.
[03:22.630 --> 03:24.070]  You guys hear about this?
[03:24.250 --> 03:30.850]  I'm going to read how it was written in the San Francisco website.
[03:31.910 --> 03:32.870]  sfgate.com.
[03:32.950 --> 03:34.110]  That's the Chronicle.
[03:34.410 --> 03:35.950]  Why doesn't it say Chronicle then?
[03:35.950 --> 03:37.150]  I'm so confused by this.
[03:37.750 --> 03:38.710]  sfgate.com.
[03:38.870 --> 03:39.990]  Well, I'm supposed to know that's the Chronicle.
[03:39.990 --> 03:41.710]  You're just supposed to know these things.
[03:41.930 --> 03:43.250]  But, you know, I'm looking at it.
[03:43.690 --> 03:46.710]  It's copyright 2011, Hearst Communications.
[03:48.090 --> 03:48.870]  Oh, there it is.
[03:48.950 --> 03:49.130]  Okay.
[03:49.370 --> 03:53.210]  This article appeared on page C1 of the San Francisco Chronicle.
[03:53.270 --> 03:54.990]  But it's way down at the bottom in tiny print.
[03:55.430 --> 03:56.830]  Why is it called SFGate?
[03:57.470 --> 03:58.550]  I don't know that.
[03:59.490 --> 04:01.810]  It's to confuse the people that aren't from San Francisco.
[04:02.190 --> 04:02.470]  Okay.
[04:02.710 --> 04:03.750]  You know, that's got to stop.
[04:03.890 --> 04:06.890]  I mean, no, the calls are great, but I can't deal with the bell.
[04:07.310 --> 04:08.650]  No, the bell just drives me crazy.
[04:08.650 --> 04:15.310]  You know, listening to the station, everyone's got the bell turned up, and it makes you realize the calls are coming in.
[04:15.410 --> 04:15.570]  Great.
[04:15.710 --> 04:17.490]  But, wow, it can wake the dead.
[04:17.630 --> 04:22.790]  So now if you call 202-209-2950, we won't hear the bell, but we'll still appreciate your pledge.
[04:22.830 --> 04:23.570]  Yes, we won't hear the bell.
[04:23.570 --> 04:25.170]  We'll see the little red light come on.
[04:25.410 --> 04:26.090]  No, we won't.
[04:26.150 --> 04:27.090]  That thing doesn't work anymore.
[04:27.170 --> 04:27.710]  That doesn't work?
[04:27.890 --> 04:28.990]  No, you have to look at the computer.
[04:29.010 --> 04:29.270]  Oh, that's right.
[04:29.270 --> 04:30.050]  I have to look at the computer now.
[04:30.730 --> 04:31.490]  It's the future.
[04:31.710 --> 04:31.910]  Yeah.
[04:32.070 --> 04:33.330]  All the way on the other side of the room.
[04:33.430 --> 04:34.250]  It's very confusing.
[04:34.550 --> 04:35.770]  Yeah, this is a much better system.
[04:35.870 --> 04:36.050]  Okay.
[04:36.790 --> 04:38.870]  Well, I'll journey over there occasionally and see what...
[04:38.870 --> 04:41.910]  I can't see that, so you have to be the listener's eyes and ears.
[04:42.290 --> 04:46.450]  We have two calls on the line and someone making a sandwich, according to this thing.
[04:46.750 --> 04:47.090]  All right.
[04:47.190 --> 04:47.510]  Excellent.
[04:47.510 --> 04:48.710]  It's a sophisticated system.
[04:48.770 --> 04:49.650]  I can tell you a lot of things.
[04:50.410 --> 04:50.530]  Wow.
[04:51.190 --> 04:54.990]  Okay, Squealman, do you know anything about sfgate.com, why it's called that?
[04:55.950 --> 04:56.490]  I'm sorry.
[04:56.490 --> 04:57.290]  I won't call you that anymore.
[04:58.910 --> 04:59.730]  He doesn't like that.
[04:59.770 --> 04:59.990]  Are you talking to me?
[05:00.090 --> 05:02.190]  Well, I did say Squealman, so maybe...
[05:02.610 --> 05:04.450]  You know, I don't respond to that address.
[05:04.630 --> 05:05.510]  You probably shouldn't.
[05:05.690 --> 05:06.330]  You probably shouldn't.
[05:07.870 --> 05:12.770]  But, well, yeah, I think it has something to do with the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge, I think.
[05:12.970 --> 05:13.850]  Maybe, perhaps.
[05:14.370 --> 05:14.730]  Okay.
[05:15.310 --> 05:16.330]  It all seems fairly...
[05:16.330 --> 05:27.590]  I mean, I don't know a lot about brand recognition, but I do know that if you have something known as a San Francisco Chronicle, which everyone's heard of, and you have a website, you don't call it something that no one's ever heard of and will be very confused by.
[05:27.690 --> 05:28.390]  I'm confused right now.
[05:28.390 --> 05:30.830]  I know we have listeners and friends in San Francisco.
[05:30.830 --> 05:33.350]  Maybe one of them can explain to us.
[05:33.450 --> 05:39.510]  Yeah, and try not to prelude the letter with, Emmanuel, I can't believe how stupid you are that you don't know this.
[05:39.950 --> 05:40.970]  That's assumed, okay?
[05:41.010 --> 05:42.970]  You don't have to say it every single time.
[05:43.490 --> 05:43.670]  All right.
[05:43.710 --> 05:44.930]  Anyway, let's get into the story.
[05:45.550 --> 05:49.790]  I'm going to read it the way they said it in the San Francisco Chronicle on page C1.
[05:50.390 --> 05:58.350]  One of the zany experiments staged by the Mythbusters television show nearly turned into a suburban tragedy yesterday afternoon in Dublin.
[05:58.810 --> 06:02.490]  And I imagine Dublin must not be in Ireland.
[06:02.630 --> 06:03.410]  I mean, that Dublin...
[06:03.410 --> 06:05.390]  No, Dublin's a city in the Bay Area.
[06:05.570 --> 06:05.830]  Okay.
[06:05.830 --> 06:08.890]  It's, you know, not very near anything.
[06:09.230 --> 06:11.110]  I wish they wouldn't name cities more than once.
[06:11.310 --> 06:12.730]  That's just a pet peeve of mine.
[06:13.190 --> 06:14.990]  A lot of words in a lot of languages.
[06:14.990 --> 06:16.450]  We don't have to repeat things.
[06:16.530 --> 06:18.550]  I don't think people should be named the same things as other people.
[06:18.550 --> 06:19.890]  Would New Dublin be acceptable?
[06:20.370 --> 06:22.030]  It's a cop-out, you know...
[06:22.030 --> 06:23.030]  Because this is New York.
[06:23.210 --> 06:23.350]  New York.
[06:23.530 --> 06:23.970]  But you know what?
[06:24.030 --> 06:25.510]  There's not another New York anywhere, is there?
[06:25.730 --> 06:27.130]  Do you know any other place called New York?
[06:27.310 --> 06:27.810]  Yes, New York.
[06:27.930 --> 06:29.870]  There's lots of Yorks, but there's no other New York, is there?
[06:30.610 --> 06:32.530]  And don't say East New York or West New York.
[06:32.670 --> 06:33.350]  Those don't count either.
[06:33.530 --> 06:34.430]  I think we're the newest.
[06:34.550 --> 06:35.390]  I think we're the latest model.
[06:35.490 --> 06:39.290]  Just saying, if you have the same name for a city in different places, it confuses people.
[06:39.290 --> 06:43.590]  I'm already confused by the whole San Francisco Chronicle thing, and now you throw Dublin into the mix.
[06:43.690 --> 06:45.230]  Are we going to get to this story at some point?
[06:45.230 --> 06:45.850]  No, I don't think we will.
[06:45.850 --> 06:46.190]  All right.
[06:46.250 --> 06:46.810]  I don't think we will.
[06:46.870 --> 06:47.830]  I should just throw it away now.
[06:48.610 --> 06:48.970]  Okay.
[06:49.170 --> 06:54.050]  So, anyway, almost a suburban tragedy yesterday afternoon in Dublin, Dublin, California.
[06:54.090 --> 06:55.130]  You should check out the accents.
[06:55.130 --> 07:02.830]  Once, when the crew fired a homemade cannon toward huge containers of water at the Alameda County Sheriff's Department bomb disposal range.
[07:03.230 --> 07:04.790]  How could that possibly go wrong?
[07:05.090 --> 07:14.370]  The cantaloupe-sized cannonball missed the water, tore through a cinder block wall, skipped off a hillside, and flew some 700 yards east right into the Tassajara Creek.
[07:14.530 --> 07:15.350]  That's a good name.
[07:15.350 --> 07:17.110]  You're not going to see another Tassajara anywhere.
[07:17.370 --> 07:17.890]  There you go.
[07:18.250 --> 07:19.330]  There's one by my house, I think.
[07:19.450 --> 07:19.770]  Yeah, sure.
[07:19.770 --> 07:25.930]  Right into the Tassajara Creek neighborhood, where children were returning home from school at 4.15 p.m.
[07:26.030 --> 07:28.310]  Which is exactly what they were supposed to be doing at that time.
[07:29.250 --> 07:34.170]  There, the six-inch projectile bounced in front of a home on quiet Kasata Place.
[07:34.510 --> 07:35.730]  Again, Kasata Place.
[07:35.950 --> 07:38.450]  How many maple places, maple streets do you see?
[07:38.570 --> 07:41.210]  But Kasata Place, you know, there aren't very many of those.
[07:41.490 --> 07:48.670]  That's because they'd probably already given a street in that town, Mission Street, which every city in California has, and they had to call it something else.
[07:48.670 --> 08:01.750]  If you live in a place that has, if you live near Maple Street, Maple Avenue, start a petition tonight to your local town board to change the name because there's just too damn many of them, and everything else, too, like Washington and Maine and all these other names that we see all over the place.
[08:02.270 --> 08:05.770]  You know, driving around in Brooklyn, I see the same names of streets as are in Manhattan.
[08:06.150 --> 08:11.290]  You know, there's a St. Mark's over there, there's a Cornelia Street over there, little streets, but they're repeated.
[08:11.450 --> 08:12.230]  There's no reason for this.
[08:12.330 --> 08:13.270]  We're better, you know?
[08:13.850 --> 08:15.830]  Also, we don't fire cannonballs at people.
[08:16.110 --> 08:16.790]  Cannonball Street.
[08:16.930 --> 08:17.890]  Is there one of those in Manhattan?
[08:17.890 --> 08:18.810]  No, there should be.
[08:19.390 --> 08:20.970]  Anyway, lots of words we can use.
[08:21.490 --> 08:22.210]  Okay, anyway.
[08:22.810 --> 08:23.350]  I'm sorry.
[08:23.450 --> 08:25.390]  I just had a double espresso before I went on the air.
[08:25.430 --> 08:26.950]  That's why I'm bouncing all over the place.
[08:28.650 --> 08:30.370]  But I'll try to put myself together here.
[08:31.030 --> 08:33.490]  Anyway, so this thing is still going.
[08:33.730 --> 08:40.250]  It bounced in front of a house on a quiet cassata place, ripped through the front door, raced up the stairs.
[08:41.710 --> 08:43.370]  Is this a robot cannonball?
[08:43.490 --> 08:44.790]  Well, I sure hope they got this on film.
[08:45.190 --> 08:47.390]  Raced up the stairs and blasted through a bedroom.
[08:48.270 --> 08:49.590]  Can you imagine being in...
[08:49.590 --> 08:50.730]  Cannonballs can't go upstairs?
[08:51.070 --> 08:51.630]  Can you imagine being in...
[08:51.630 --> 08:52.530]  It's Mythbusters.
[08:52.690 --> 08:53.350]  Anything's possible.
[08:53.590 --> 08:55.290]  Are you going to tell a cannonball it can't go upstairs?
[08:55.450 --> 08:55.850]  Okay.
[08:56.050 --> 08:59.310]  He blasted through a bedroom where a man, woman, and child slept through it all.
[08:59.550 --> 09:00.510]  Okay, now here's the thing.
[09:01.070 --> 09:02.330]  It's 4.15 p.m.
[09:02.330 --> 09:05.610]  Why is a man, woman, and child sleeping at 4.15 p.m.
[09:05.730 --> 09:06.370]  in one room?
[09:06.710 --> 09:08.790]  You know, there's a lot that doesn't add up here.
[09:09.750 --> 09:10.190]  And...
[09:10.190 --> 09:14.850]  Wait, we're going to assassinate the characters of the people who just had a cannonball running through their house?
[09:14.850 --> 09:16.270]  Yeah, well, yeah, definitely.
[09:16.290 --> 09:17.250]  That doesn't seem fair.
[09:17.770 --> 09:18.630]  Only awakening.
[09:18.970 --> 09:20.730]  They only awoke because of plaster dust.
[09:21.770 --> 09:22.970]  But it wasn't done yet.
[09:23.210 --> 09:24.870]  The ball wasn't done bouncing.
[09:25.190 --> 09:35.250]  It exited the house, leaving a perfectly round hole in the stucco, crossed six-lane Tazajara Road in the Tazajara Creek neighborhood.
[09:35.470 --> 09:37.850]  You know, I could have come up with a better name than that.
[09:38.270 --> 09:46.850]  Took out several tiles from the roof of a home on Bellevue Circle, and finally slammed into the Gill family's beige Toyota Sienna.
[09:47.750 --> 09:50.410]  Don't you love, like, the names I come up with with cars?
[09:50.850 --> 09:52.810]  Celica, you know...
[09:52.810 --> 09:54.230]  Is it beige or Sienna, anyway?
[09:54.410 --> 09:55.270]  Semi-fake names.
[09:55.570 --> 09:59.590]  Toyota Sienna minivan in a driveway on Springvale Drive.
[10:00.310 --> 10:09.750]  And that's where Jasper, and that's a wonderful name, too, Jasper Gill, who had pulled up 10 minutes earlier with his 13-year-old son, Manvir, this guy gets it.
[10:09.830 --> 10:10.090]  You see?
[10:10.290 --> 10:11.350]  Good names here.
[10:11.670 --> 10:12.770]  Jasper, Manvir.
[10:13.090 --> 10:15.690]  It's a good thing you're the first Emanuel Goldstein ever.
[10:16.990 --> 10:17.470]  Touché.
[10:18.470 --> 10:19.210]  Now, shut up.
[10:20.890 --> 10:27.090]  Okay, Manvir, his 13-year-old son, found the ball on the floorboards with glass everywhere and an obliterated dashboard.
[10:27.670 --> 10:29.730]  It's shocking, said Gill.
[10:29.990 --> 10:31.150]  Anything could have happened.
[10:31.230 --> 10:32.410]  I think anything did happen.
[10:32.530 --> 10:33.650]  I think everything happened.
[10:34.170 --> 10:35.370]  This is unbelievable.
[10:36.510 --> 10:39.270]  The van has been taken away as evidence, along with the cannonball.
[10:40.130 --> 10:41.130]  Sergeant J.D.
[10:41.270 --> 10:44.770]  Nelson, a spokesman for the Alameda County Sheriff's Department, put it this way.
[10:45.170 --> 10:46.830]  Crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy.
[10:47.050 --> 10:48.290]  You wouldn't think it was possible.
[10:49.470 --> 10:52.910]  I like when law enforcement gets illustrative there.
[10:52.910 --> 11:02.750]  He said the television crew was incredibly unlucky that the cannonball flew through Dublin, but tremendously lucky that it didn't seriously injure or kill somebody.
[11:04.310 --> 11:15.330]  Nelson said Mythbusters, which is a show on the Discovery Channel, had used the bomb disposal range without incident while shooting portions of more than 50 episodes over the past seven or eight years.
[11:15.590 --> 11:21.690]  The show does not pay a set fee, but has donated to the department and given it exposure, but nothing to compare with what it's getting today.
[11:22.530 --> 11:27.710]  One of the terms of the deal was that the show take out insurance in case of a mishap.
[11:27.930 --> 11:29.590]  And I imagine they'll be getting some phone calls today.
[11:29.930 --> 11:31.770]  The show is based in San Francisco.
[11:32.410 --> 11:39.230]  Host Adam Savage and Jamie Heinemann use science experiments to confirm or debunk rumors or myths.
[11:40.210 --> 11:44.350]  Reached Tuesday evening, Savage said, I can't talk right now before hanging up.
[11:45.970 --> 11:47.250]  I don't blame him.
[11:47.770 --> 11:48.290]  How do you...
[11:48.290 --> 11:50.170]  What kind of question can you possibly answer?
[11:50.290 --> 11:51.070]  I mean, this is...
[11:51.070 --> 11:58.830]  This beats the, you know, the magic shot of 1963, the JFK assassination that bounced all over Dallas.
[12:00.590 --> 12:03.010]  Maybe that's what they were trying to debunk.
[12:03.330 --> 12:05.810]  I can hardly wait till this episode airs.
[12:06.010 --> 12:06.890]  What do you think, Bernie?
[12:07.310 --> 12:12.090]  I think it's going to be a great episode if they document the whole path of destruction that they reached.
[12:12.090 --> 12:16.190]  You know, I'm wondering, is there a more chance this is a publicity stunt?
[12:16.350 --> 12:17.370]  A dangerous one at that?
[12:17.970 --> 12:20.250]  Well, it does seem awfully well documented.
[12:20.430 --> 12:23.530]  It doesn't seem very well documented for something that...
[12:23.530 --> 12:25.510]  Was somebody watching what it was doing the whole time?
[12:26.110 --> 12:28.710]  It sounds like it was really well documented from what you read.
[12:28.730 --> 12:30.250]  And they completely missed the target.
[12:30.410 --> 12:32.030]  They completely missed the barrels of water.
[12:32.630 --> 12:33.650]  Somebody had bad aim.
[12:34.530 --> 12:35.670]  Nobody said they were perfect.
[12:35.810 --> 12:38.150]  It's not that hard to figure out where the cannonball was.
[12:38.150 --> 12:39.550]  You just look for the giant hole.
[12:40.590 --> 12:41.210]  A hole, I guess.
[12:41.330 --> 12:44.270]  But what if something else was let loose at that time, too, that caused a giant hole?
[12:44.390 --> 12:45.930]  You might, you know, it might be a red herring.
[12:46.050 --> 12:49.030]  You might be chasing after something that didn't really happen.
[12:49.150 --> 12:49.570]  That's true.
[12:50.150 --> 12:50.870]  It's just a shame.
[12:51.070 --> 12:51.710]  It's just a shame.
[12:51.730 --> 12:59.290]  I'm assuming that this went out of camera range and they didn't get any actual footage of this thing going, you know, over the creek and over the river and through the wood and up the stairs and left turn at Albuquerque.
[13:01.790 --> 13:03.230]  Well, we wish them well.
[13:03.390 --> 13:05.010]  We wish the people of Dublin well.
[13:05.670 --> 13:07.050]  God knows they've been through a lot over the years.
[13:09.430 --> 13:12.770]  And Adam was, of course, one of our speakers at The Last Hope, right?
[13:14.150 --> 13:14.850]  I think so.
[13:14.910 --> 13:15.890]  Was it The Last Hope or The Next Hope?
[13:15.970 --> 13:17.130]  It was The Last Hope in 2008.
[13:17.390 --> 13:17.550]  Yes.
[13:18.470 --> 13:26.070]  Speaking of hope, speaking of hope, since you brought it up, Beyond Hope from 1997, we're going to be doing the same thing we did with the first Hope Conference.
[13:26.070 --> 13:31.850]  I remember last month we unveiled all the talks online through our friends at BlipTV.
[13:32.550 --> 13:34.170]  And it's really amazing.
[13:34.210 --> 13:39.030]  You can just go back now and see a video that took place way back at our first conference.
[13:39.150 --> 13:40.630]  Well, this is now our second conference.
[13:40.990 --> 13:46.750]  And for the first time, these videos are being put online starting, I think, starting Friday morning at 6 a.m.
[13:46.910 --> 13:48.010]  Now, why are we starting then?
[13:48.130 --> 13:56.930]  Because back in 1997, if you recall, we did a simulcast with Hacking in Progress, a Dutch Hacker conference, a Dutch Hacker camp, actually.
[13:57.410 --> 14:00.350]  And I did the opening address for them.
[14:00.350 --> 14:03.550]  And I had to be up at 6 in the morning to do that because of the time difference.
[14:04.350 --> 14:08.250]  So that's when we're going to be putting this online at the time that it happened, about 6 a.m.
[14:08.430 --> 14:11.930]  And then we have a press conference later that evening.
[14:12.030 --> 14:13.730]  And we have a 2600 panel.
[14:13.890 --> 14:14.690]  That will be going up, too.
[14:14.770 --> 14:17.830]  But most of the panels will be happening on Saturday and Sunday.
[14:17.930 --> 14:20.170]  So those will be going up hour by hour, just like we did last time.
[14:20.250 --> 14:21.150]  It's a whole lot of fun.
[14:21.150 --> 14:22.010]  And a lot of people participated.
[14:22.010 --> 14:26.710]  It was really kind of cool to sort of relive the conference on an hour-by-hour basis.
[14:27.350 --> 14:29.230]  I'm really looking forward to seeing the Beyond Hope stuff.
[14:29.390 --> 14:32.550]  I wanted to go to Beyond Hope, and I could not get the time off of work to go.
[14:33.010 --> 14:34.450]  So this is way overdue for me.
[14:34.490 --> 14:35.210]  I need to see what happens.
[14:35.230 --> 14:35.890]  Now you can go.
[14:36.010 --> 14:36.930]  Now everybody can go.
[14:51.150 --> 15:01.730]  Back in 1997, I'm talking five, ten minutes of people just sort of milling about in front of this big projector screen that is basically going through different URLs.
[15:02.270 --> 15:04.750]  And people were fascinated by that at that time.
[15:04.750 --> 15:07.490]  It was a new thing to be able to just go to these websites.
[15:07.610 --> 15:12.030]  And of course, they look like 1990s websites, but people are still fascinated by it.
[15:12.290 --> 15:14.730]  And I just think it's kind of a cool thing.
[15:14.990 --> 15:16.570]  Bernard, do you have any recollection of that?
[15:17.390 --> 15:24.890]  I do, and I also have a recollection of an internet project at Beyond Hope where there was a switch and a light bulb.
[15:24.950 --> 15:25.350]  Oh, yes.
[15:25.410 --> 15:25.910]  Remember that?
[15:26.170 --> 15:27.690]  There was a Dutch guy, too, wasn't it?
[15:27.750 --> 15:28.250]  It was.
[15:28.330 --> 15:29.710]  It was at the Dutch conference.
[15:29.710 --> 15:31.950]  What was the name of that Dutch conference going on simultaneously?
[15:32.290 --> 15:32.650]  I don't remember.
[15:32.710 --> 15:33.850]  Hacking in Progress, or HIP.
[15:33.950 --> 15:35.030]  Hacking in Progress, HIP, yes.
[15:35.250 --> 15:37.770]  At the same time, HIP had a light bulb and a switch.
[15:38.230 --> 15:42.290]  And they were connected IP-wise through the internet.
[15:42.410 --> 15:49.850]  And you could flip a switch in New York, and it would turn the light on in the Netherlands, and vice versa.
[15:50.030 --> 15:51.750]  It was just so cool.
[15:51.870 --> 15:54.310]  It took most of the weekend to actually get this to happen.
[15:54.450 --> 15:57.390]  And I remember it finally succeeded, and everybody was really happy.
[15:57.790 --> 15:58.590]  Just turning on a light.
[15:58.590 --> 15:59.210]  It was a big deal.
[15:59.490 --> 16:00.810]  It was a neat project, though.
[16:00.810 --> 16:04.690]  It was like the world's longest extension light switch.
[16:04.930 --> 16:05.210]  Mm-hmm.
[16:06.090 --> 16:09.170]  It was a proof-of-concept exercise.
[16:09.330 --> 16:11.010]  I was really impressed that they got it to work.
[16:11.010 --> 16:18.630]  And the one thing, I'm so glad we document these conferences that we have, because each one captures a different kind of magic.
[16:19.010 --> 16:23.130]  There's always a different theme, new speakers, new subjects.
[16:24.530 --> 16:27.430]  And so often, this stuff gets lost.
[16:27.590 --> 16:32.050]  And we have it all, and we've been compiling it, putting it all together.
[16:32.570 --> 16:38.750]  And now we're finally releasing it, and I think that's definitely a big historical event right there.
[16:38.850 --> 16:40.650]  So this weekend, that's going to be happening.
[16:40.910 --> 16:45.230]  Just check our website, www.2600.com, for links.
[16:45.410 --> 16:49.070]  Or subscribe to our Twitter feed, as we'll be letting people know as they go up.
[16:49.170 --> 16:51.410]  Our Twitter address is 2600.
[16:51.570 --> 16:52.490]  Yes, 2600.
[16:53.570 --> 16:58.570]  Also, on Saturday, we're going to be making available tickets to HOPE No.
[16:58.650 --> 17:02.090]  9, which is our next conference coming up July 13, 14, and 15.
[17:03.150 --> 17:07.730]  Now, we did this once before, back last month when we released the first HOPE videos.
[17:07.930 --> 17:10.530]  We had a number of tickets available.
[17:11.510 --> 17:14.690]  We had them available, I think, at noon on a Saturday.
[17:15.290 --> 17:17.390]  And they were gone in less than two minutes.
[17:17.390 --> 17:18.930]  I could not believe it.
[17:18.930 --> 17:20.150]  I've never seen anything like this happen before.
[17:20.150 --> 17:22.230]  But they sold out that quickly.
[17:22.850 --> 17:24.330]  I've heard of the Germans doing this.
[17:24.450 --> 17:29.530]  I've heard for the chaos congresses and camps and various other conferences.
[17:29.550 --> 17:32.550]  They put things up online, and they're just gone in a matter of seconds.
[17:32.790 --> 17:35.410]  I was actually trying to buy my ticket this way, and I wasn't fast enough.
[17:35.510 --> 17:36.790]  Bernie, I don't think you were fast enough either.
[17:37.170 --> 17:43.170]  No, by the time my PayPal went through, it was like two and a half minutes had passed, and I missed my chance.
[17:43.170 --> 17:45.910]  So I'm going to have to roll the dice again this Saturday.
[17:45.910 --> 17:49.050]  I really want to get a discount HOPE ticket for HOPE No.
[17:49.130 --> 17:49.350]  9.
[17:49.350 --> 17:52.510]  Well, this time it goes online at 2 p.m.
[17:52.590 --> 17:55.750]  We had some complaints from people on the West Coast that didn't want to get up early.
[17:56.070 --> 17:59.210]  And, you know, it's three hours earlier there, so I can sort of understand that Saturday morning.
[18:00.070 --> 18:01.450]  So 2 p.m.
[18:02.230 --> 18:03.450]  Eastern time, 11 a.m.
[18:03.650 --> 18:07.010]  Pacific time, and figure out your time zone differences wherever you are.
[18:07.010 --> 18:15.250]  And at 2 p.m., we'll have a bunch of tickets available again, and hopefully you'll get through this time.
[18:15.490 --> 18:20.430]  We have more, so hopefully it'll last longer, and it's sort of like a holiday thing we're doing.
[18:21.590 --> 18:23.830]  And we're looking forward to this next conference.
[18:23.910 --> 18:24.850]  It's going to be a lot of fun.
[18:24.990 --> 18:27.650]  We're already talking to potential speakers, potential keynotes.
[18:27.750 --> 18:30.510]  If you have suggestions, feel free to email us.
[18:30.510 --> 18:34.550]  You can email us here at the radio show, OTH at 2600.com.
[18:34.850 --> 18:36.290]  That is our email address.
[18:37.050 --> 18:42.970]  Now, okay, we have other stories to talk about, but I want to get into this first because this is kind of important.
[18:43.450 --> 18:45.370]  I mentioned it was a fundraising show.
[18:46.190 --> 18:49.270]  But last week, last week we got a phone call.
[18:49.390 --> 18:50.770]  I don't know if people remember this.
[18:52.010 --> 19:01.930]  But we got a call from a listener, and it kind of put me into a commitment that I feel obliged to keep.
[19:03.230 --> 19:06.450]  And actually, do we have that excerpt?
[19:06.530 --> 19:08.810]  Let's see if we can play that over the radio.
[19:08.950 --> 19:10.190]  This is from last week.
[19:10.290 --> 19:10.630]  Good evening.
[19:10.750 --> 19:11.470]  You're on Off the Hook.
[19:12.010 --> 19:12.630]  Yeah, hello?
[19:12.830 --> 19:13.510]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[19:13.810 --> 19:18.370]  I just wanted to find out, bro, what about the TVVCon Premium, bro?
[19:18.410 --> 19:19.350]  When are you guys going to get that?
[19:19.350 --> 19:21.590]  Okay, so I knew somebody was going to call about this.
[19:21.770 --> 19:26.390]  We have been trying to get all the premium information from the station as far as what to send to whom.
[19:26.610 --> 19:29.450]  We've been trying this for weeks, and you have my pledge.
[19:29.450 --> 19:33.070]  We are not going to be asking for more money until it's ironed out, all right?
[19:33.110 --> 19:33.890]  So we are trying.
[19:34.030 --> 19:34.730]  We're trying really hard.
[19:34.870 --> 19:37.650]  If you have not gotten your premium, write to us, all right?
[19:37.710 --> 19:46.390]  Everybody out there who has not gotten a premium from us, and let's not count the last fun drive, which is autumn, which took place in October, because that's still rather recent.
[19:46.490 --> 19:47.190]  It's only last month.
[19:47.190 --> 19:55.250]  But the several before then, if you're still on the list, write to us, and you have my promise that we will deal with it.
[19:55.330 --> 20:01.250]  We will make sure the right people know about it, and we will have all of this taken care of before we go on here again, asking for your support, okay?
[20:01.550 --> 20:02.010]  All right.
[20:02.130 --> 20:02.450]  All right.
[20:02.590 --> 20:03.250]  Sorry about all that.
[20:03.370 --> 20:08.150]  It does happen sometimes, but you have our word that, in the end, everybody gets what's coming to them.
[20:08.150 --> 20:09.910]  And I don't mean that to sound as negative as it did.
[20:10.230 --> 20:11.730]  But do I really sound like that?
[20:12.190 --> 20:12.590]  Wow.
[20:12.950 --> 20:13.770]  Nothing at all, no.
[20:13.930 --> 20:14.330]  That's completely different.
[20:14.330 --> 20:15.450]  It just sounds so bizarre.
[20:15.510 --> 20:17.270]  You sound much less recorded now.
[20:17.610 --> 20:17.950]  Yeah.
[20:18.150 --> 20:18.570]  I don't...
[20:18.570 --> 20:21.510]  You know, I'm hearing myself from a different, you know, end, and I just don't...
[20:21.510 --> 20:22.670]  It sounds completely different to me.
[20:22.950 --> 20:23.830]  But yeah, okay.
[20:25.390 --> 20:29.130]  Seriously, we have been working very, very hard to get the information.
[20:29.130 --> 20:32.610]  And I can say that the TV Begones have been delivered today.
[20:32.790 --> 20:36.990]  I just brought them in to the general manager's office, and they're all being allocated now.
[20:37.090 --> 20:39.970]  They will be sent out, I imagine, within a couple of days.
[20:40.630 --> 20:42.490]  There are still a few issues.
[20:42.490 --> 20:49.970]  We haven't heard from anybody that said they haven't gotten their premiums, not counting this October, because that's a little too recent.
[20:50.490 --> 20:56.310]  But if you have not gotten a premium, say, in the last year before that, please let us know.
[20:56.310 --> 21:00.910]  Now, we're aware of the Tesla debacle, and that's not the station's fault at all.
[21:00.990 --> 21:06.630]  That's because we've been trying to get the T-shirts from the Ark Attack people, and we just are not getting them.
[21:06.730 --> 21:08.090]  So we have videos.
[21:08.090 --> 21:09.370]  We have the Tesla bills.
[21:09.610 --> 21:14.490]  We'll try to throw something else in, and we're trying to get people's names and addresses, so we mail that out ourselves.
[21:15.170 --> 21:16.570]  So that'll be taken care of.
[21:17.250 --> 21:19.810]  The Mitnick books, I think those have all been sent out.
[21:20.470 --> 21:22.010]  There are some...
[21:22.450 --> 21:25.610]  We're trying to get the information on people who pledged for calendars over the summer.
[21:25.610 --> 21:28.950]  And some DVD packages.
[21:29.490 --> 21:32.170]  I think that's the one remaining issue that's left.
[21:32.350 --> 21:37.870]  And there are people working on that as I speak right now, because I just came out of an office, and that's being worked upon.
[21:37.950 --> 21:50.010]  So all that said, that's why we don't have premiums set up this time, because I didn't want to add to any more problems while this was still being ironed out.
[21:50.090 --> 21:51.250]  I want to make sure people are...
[21:51.250 --> 21:55.330]  If they haven't gotten it in their hands already, it's imminent that they will be getting things in their hands.
[21:55.670 --> 22:01.150]  So I don't want to have that promise wind up hurting us.
[22:01.250 --> 22:09.570]  So I'm hoping people will take it upon themselves on this one-day fundraiser to call up and support the station, because we believe in the station here.
[22:09.710 --> 22:18.770]  And it's a vital place for us to all communicate, spread information, tell stories, take phone calls, things like that.
[22:20.030 --> 22:22.770]  And we do have station premiums.
[22:22.830 --> 22:28.970]  For instance, there's this brand new WBAI T-shirt, which I believe...
[22:28.970 --> 22:31.110]  Do we have a list of pledge levels?
[22:31.810 --> 22:34.430]  The T-shirt, you pledge $60 or more.
[22:34.550 --> 22:35.130]  $60 or more.
[22:35.270 --> 22:35.990]  And you'll get a T-shirt.
[22:36.150 --> 22:36.370]  Okay.
[22:36.410 --> 22:37.930]  And there are other premiums down there, too.
[22:37.930 --> 22:44.850]  I think there's mugs and various other, you know, the usual station paraphernalia type thing, which is a good thing to have.
[22:45.190 --> 22:46.810]  But the T-shirt's actually pretty nice.
[22:46.930 --> 22:47.690]  T-shirt's great.
[22:47.950 --> 22:48.350]  It's...
[22:48.850 --> 22:50.130]  How would you describe the front?
[22:50.650 --> 22:53.750]  It's a black T-shirt, so all the hacker types can wear it.
[22:53.750 --> 22:54.890]  That's the front and back, yes.
[22:55.030 --> 22:55.630]  Well, you know...
[22:55.630 --> 22:56.250]  It's black, yeah.
[22:56.430 --> 22:57.970]  It's dark enough for those people there.
[22:57.970 --> 23:09.410]  And the front, it says WBAI Pacifica Radio NYC, and each of the four letters in WBAI is on a different colored background.
[23:09.690 --> 23:11.890]  It's, you know, a couple inches high.
[23:12.270 --> 23:12.990]  It's pretty nice.
[23:13.150 --> 23:15.290]  I really can't see it when you do that, though.
[23:15.290 --> 23:16.730]  Well, I'm trying to do three things at once.
[23:16.730 --> 23:18.710]  Okay, I'll hold it up so that you can see it.
[23:18.870 --> 23:23.890]  And it, of course, gives the frequency 99.5 FM for people who...
[23:24.410 --> 23:28.850]  So if you're wearing this shirt and you're walking around, you can just look down and know where to turn your radio.
[23:29.110 --> 23:34.010]  And if there are people behind you, they can see the frequency, too, because on the back is this nice graphic of headphones.
[23:34.270 --> 23:40.250]  And in the middle of the headphones, where your head would be, are the letters WBAI and then 99.5 FM.
[23:41.330 --> 23:46.390]  And a great slogan that we just put on this T-shirt, radio for the 99%.
[23:46.390 --> 23:50.850]  And I think that's kind of cool and shows you how current this shirt is.
[23:51.030 --> 23:56.250]  And, you know, as you just heard, we have the Occupy Wall Street radio program that's on right before us.
[23:56.250 --> 24:11.170]  This station has become a vital voice of that movement and of just updating people as to what's going on throughout the world as far as that and so many other historic events that have been going on over the past few years and certainly the last few months.
[24:11.270 --> 24:14.370]  They've been really coming to a forefront.
[24:15.370 --> 24:21.810]  So that's something you'll get, 212-209-2950 for a pledge of $60 or more.
[24:22.190 --> 24:24.230]  And there's all kinds... we don't have a list.
[24:25.110 --> 24:27.070]  We'll get a list, but the T-shirt's pretty nice.
[24:27.070 --> 24:28.450]  We're only on for another few minutes here.
[24:28.450 --> 24:28.670]  All right.
[24:28.790 --> 24:29.290]  Well, you know...
[24:29.290 --> 24:30.170]  It'd be nice to have the list.
[24:30.450 --> 24:30.810]  Okay.
[24:31.030 --> 24:43.470]  And you can also ask the operators when you call, 212-209-2950, and ask them what's going on with the pledge levels, what levels you get and what pledges you get.
[24:43.570 --> 24:45.630]  But most importantly, you get this radio station.
[24:45.630 --> 24:50.550]  And there is truly nothing else like it in this city, in this country, on this planet.
[24:51.510 --> 24:51.990]  Absolutely.
[24:52.290 --> 24:52.530]  Absolutely.
[24:53.810 --> 24:55.750]  212-209-2950.
[24:55.750 --> 24:57.010]  That's our telephone number.
[24:57.430 --> 25:08.910]  And again, we are asking people to pledge tonight because of the radio station itself, because of what we've brought to you on Off the Hook, and basically voice your support.
[25:09.310 --> 25:11.870]  Pick up some BAI premiums of various sorts.
[25:11.870 --> 25:16.390]  It's what we are saying on the air, that's only a small part of what's actually available down in the tally room.
[25:16.470 --> 25:22.210]  So you can call up and say, hey, I'd like to pledge, I don't know, $250, and what's available for that pledge amount.
[25:22.370 --> 25:26.450]  And the people there will be able to tell you in great detail what kinds of things you can get.
[25:26.730 --> 25:30.670]  But again, as Rob said, it's the most important thing is you're getting the radio station.
[25:31.390 --> 25:32.590]  And even if...
[25:32.590 --> 25:33.990]  And there are some stations that do this.
[25:34.110 --> 25:37.390]  They give you absolutely nothing back except the radio station.
[25:37.690 --> 25:38.690]  And that's good enough.
[25:38.850 --> 25:39.890]  That's good enough for listeners.
[25:39.890 --> 25:43.070]  In many, many cases, I'd like to think that's good enough for us.
[25:43.230 --> 25:44.850]  I really would like to think that.
[25:45.210 --> 25:47.990]  So let's hope those phone lines light up.
[25:48.110 --> 25:50.050]  212-209-2950.
[25:50.050 --> 25:51.890]  I can't see how many calls are coming in right now.
[25:51.930 --> 25:53.570]  And I don't have that bell up.
[25:53.610 --> 25:56.470]  So I'm not going to deafen myself with this information.
[25:56.470 --> 26:03.550]  But I sure hope people call in and show that they care, that they want the station to continue.
[26:04.010 --> 26:06.290]  December is usually not when we do a fundraiser.
[26:06.290 --> 26:10.130]  In fact, we have now more fundraising slots than we do seasons.
[26:10.270 --> 26:12.650]  So I can't call it the fall fundraiser because that was in October.
[26:12.650 --> 26:14.330]  It's not the winter one because that's in February.
[26:15.350 --> 26:17.150]  This is the December special one.
[26:18.730 --> 26:21.570]  And it doesn't have to be a painful thing.
[26:21.850 --> 26:25.930]  It shouldn't be any more painful to call up and voice support.
[26:26.150 --> 26:28.650]  It's painful for us, obviously, to keep asking for it.
[26:28.650 --> 26:31.210]  But that's how we get where we are.
[26:31.330 --> 26:36.750]  That's how we've survived for the last, what, 51 years now, as long as WBAI has been around.
[26:37.770 --> 26:45.110]  And I'd also like to mention, every time we do one of these, we get email afterward asking, you know, can we donate even though it's not live during the show?
[26:45.450 --> 26:53.070]  And I do want to remind our listeners, especially those listening to us on MP3s and podcasts and things, that you can donate to our show online.
[26:53.070 --> 26:56.750]  You can go to WBAI.org and there's a link there to donate to your favorite show.
[26:56.970 --> 27:07.970]  And if you choose Off the Hook as your favorite show, then you'll be supporting the station and you will be supporting this particular show and showing the station management that our show is important to you.
[27:08.090 --> 27:13.410]  And there are also some premiums that you can get on the website and they're listed there.
[27:13.510 --> 27:17.790]  We get a nice little letter of congratulations from station management every time somebody does that.
[27:17.930 --> 27:22.410]  And it really, it makes us feel like maybe we're doing something right after all.
[27:22.410 --> 27:31.790]  So, 212-209-2950 if you want to give a call now and support the place and keep WBAI on the air for another 51 years, hopefully.
[27:32.070 --> 27:33.090]  Pledge whatever you can afford.
[27:33.210 --> 27:39.690]  But again, $60 gets you the brand new WBAI t-shirt and all kinds of other pledge levels as well.
[27:39.890 --> 27:40.950]  Some for less, some for more.
[27:41.170 --> 27:49.010]  I think everybody who pledges 25 and above becomes a WBAI member and that allows you to vote in various elections that happen.
[27:49.010 --> 27:52.350]  And yeah, I don't see calls coming in.
[27:52.650 --> 27:54.450]  Could it be this strategy doesn't work?
[27:54.610 --> 27:57.650]  We have to offer all kinds of goodies and things.
[27:57.990 --> 28:04.910]  I mean, I'm really proud of the thank you gifts that we've been able to offer our listeners in the past and will do so in the future.
[28:04.910 --> 28:14.110]  But it's a bit sad that our listeners might not call to keep us on the air, to keep the radio station on the air, to keep the program on the air.
[28:14.110 --> 28:17.550]  Or they're just calling, you know, to buy things.
[28:18.250 --> 28:19.570]  You know, it saddens me a bit.
[28:19.750 --> 28:20.890]  So prove me wrong.
[28:21.010 --> 28:23.270]  212-209-2950.
[28:23.730 --> 28:25.670]  And pledge, keep us on the air.
[28:26.250 --> 28:28.570]  Keep the program, keep our program on the air.
[28:28.730 --> 28:31.930]  Keep Occupy Wall Street Radio, which was just before us on the air.
[28:32.330 --> 28:34.290]  The personal computer show is coming up.
[28:34.450 --> 28:35.510]  You'll keep them on the air.
[28:35.510 --> 28:42.090]  All the programs that the station produces, you know, 100% of your donation goes to keeping us on the air.
[28:42.230 --> 28:44.150]  212-209-2950.
[28:46.730 --> 28:47.150]  Yes.
[28:47.450 --> 28:47.810]  Yes.
[28:48.010 --> 28:48.710]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[28:49.730 --> 28:51.830]  I was hoping you'd jump in with something profound.
[28:51.950 --> 28:53.190]  I was going to say yes.
[28:53.190 --> 28:54.670]  I agree with everything Mike just said.
[28:54.810 --> 28:55.350]  No, seriously.
[28:56.390 --> 29:11.690]  This is a station that is the only station I know in the United States, or maybe the whole world that has a hacker radio show that's on weekly that you can call into and voice your questions, concerns, be entertained, laugh at us, scream at us, whatever,
[29:11.950 --> 29:14.450]  but it's a hacker culture radio show.
[29:14.950 --> 29:17.470]  You're not going to hear that on any other radio station.
[29:17.550 --> 29:27.030]  And WBA, I feel if it's important that you hear about this, and it obviously wouldn't be important to you, the listener, or you wouldn't be listening to it right now.
[29:27.030 --> 29:35.650]  So, you've got to try to support this kind of a media, because this kind of media coverage doesn't get aired anywhere else, to my knowledge.
[29:35.830 --> 29:37.790]  212-209-2950.
[29:37.970 --> 29:38.870]  Pledge whatever you can.
[29:39.330 --> 29:40.390]  We'll appreciate it.
[29:40.890 --> 29:42.570]  We'd all do this for volunteer work.
[29:42.610 --> 29:44.010]  We don't get paid a dime for this work.
[29:44.450 --> 29:50.550]  But the station has to pay the electric bill to run a transmitter on top of the Empire State Building and stream it around the world.
[29:50.670 --> 29:51.810]  And it's a good cost.
[29:51.950 --> 29:53.770]  212-209-2950.
[29:54.310 --> 29:56.810]  Yeah, and Bernie, if I could just interrupt real quick.
[29:56.810 --> 29:58.210]  I just wanted to reiterate...
[29:58.210 --> 29:58.410]  Wait a minute.
[29:58.530 --> 29:58.750]  Whoa, whoa.
[29:58.850 --> 29:59.110]  Kyle.
[29:59.290 --> 30:01.090]  Something that I think that Mike says...
[30:01.090 --> 30:01.890]  Kyle, where'd you come from?
[30:01.890 --> 30:03.170]  You just popped in out of nowhere.
[30:03.950 --> 30:04.150]  Oh.
[30:04.510 --> 30:04.710]  Wow.
[30:05.050 --> 30:06.410]  Yeah, I was just listening online.
[30:06.590 --> 30:10.470]  I thought I'd share a little bit of my experience.
[30:10.630 --> 30:11.290]  No, that's great.
[30:11.310 --> 30:12.750]  But how did you get on the air?
[30:12.830 --> 30:13.510]  That's what I don't understand.
[30:13.510 --> 30:14.610]  You just suddenly appeared.
[30:15.190 --> 30:15.590]  I'm sorry?
[30:15.730 --> 30:16.050]  No, no.
[30:16.130 --> 30:16.530]  It's just...
[30:16.530 --> 30:19.750]  It's great that you're doing that, but I just don't know how you suddenly appeared on the radio like this.
[30:20.130 --> 30:20.830]  We have some...
[30:20.830 --> 30:22.750]  I just wanted to make a point.
[30:22.790 --> 30:23.230]  Yes, go ahead.
[30:23.250 --> 30:25.650]  You know, the radio is here for the listeners.
[30:25.650 --> 30:27.070]  I mean, we're a resource.
[30:27.270 --> 30:29.490]  We're kind of a clearinghouse for the hacker community.
[30:29.710 --> 30:46.990]  It's amazing that WBAI can give us some space in their schedule, but really we exist for our own audience, and we like to share about hacking and telephony and kind of what's going on with technology as we have been for quite some time now.
[30:47.790 --> 30:49.430]  And we're really here for the listeners.
[30:49.570 --> 30:57.470]  Like, if you write in, if you wrote a letter because you figured out something or you wanted to share something, whether it's anonymously or not, whatever, we're here for you.
[30:57.810 --> 30:59.290]  We're a voice for you.
[30:59.370 --> 31:01.110]  We can pass along information.
[31:01.110 --> 31:05.390]  We can share news with people and represent the community.
[31:05.710 --> 31:10.850]  And likewise, you can listen and gain something from having participated in the show.
[31:10.970 --> 31:12.750]  I listen for quite some time now.
[31:12.910 --> 31:16.410]  And as I said, I listen online when I'm not around.
[31:16.410 --> 31:18.770]  And, you know, it's an incredible resource.
[31:18.770 --> 31:20.470]  As Bernie said, we're not paid.
[31:20.470 --> 31:21.370]  We're just volunteering.
[31:21.610 --> 31:25.410]  We show up every time and, you know, try to make an impact.
[31:26.130 --> 31:26.790]  Well said.
[31:27.330 --> 31:30.230]  Also, I want to point out the history of this station.
[31:30.390 --> 31:43.330]  For those of you not familiar with it, I strongly encourage you to go online, go on Wikipedia, go whatever, and look up the history of WBAI and how it came to be because it was such an amazing strand of coincidences and happenstances and, like, incredible,
[31:43.510 --> 31:45.890]  incredible occasions that would not happen again.
[31:45.890 --> 32:00.870]  If we lost this station where we have it, right in the sweet spot of the FM dial in New York City, of all places, if we lost this the next day, you know, some conglomerate would snap up the frequency, snap up the license, and there would be generic crap on the air here,
[32:01.210 --> 32:03.430]  like, within that day.
[32:03.510 --> 32:04.650]  And we would never get this back.
[32:04.810 --> 32:08.610]  If this station disappeared, it would not be coming back, not in any form anything like this.
[32:08.910 --> 32:09.050]  True.
[32:09.050 --> 32:09.450]  Very true.
[32:09.890 --> 32:18.650]  You know, it's amazing that we've been able to keep this going purely on the generosity of its volunteers and listeners for 51 years now.
[32:18.830 --> 32:23.070]  And if that would come to an end, there is no way that we could ever do this again.
[32:23.270 --> 32:24.570]  It just would not happen, I don't think.
[32:24.590 --> 32:30.230]  You might hear in various places how radio is dying and how it's getting outdated and kids don't listen to radio anymore.
[32:30.510 --> 32:44.030]  That might be true of those crappy stations where the same generic music is played over and over again and the same screaming commercials are thrown at you, but not a place like BAI where there's all kinds of really insightful dialogue that's constantly,
[32:44.170 --> 32:46.250]  24 hours a day going on in one form or another.
[32:46.370 --> 32:53.170]  If you don't like what you're hearing at one point, you turn the radio station on in two hours and you'll hear something completely different and you might love that.
[32:53.590 --> 32:56.050]  That's a reason to support the place for that kind of diversity.
[32:56.590 --> 32:58.770]  And that radio is very relevant.
[32:58.770 --> 33:00.130]  It will always be very relevant.
[33:00.390 --> 33:06.270]  But despite the fact that this kind of radio is what's in demand, yeah, as Rob said, it's very hard.
[33:06.510 --> 33:09.970]  It would be very hard for us to gain a frequency if we were to lose a frequency.
[33:10.190 --> 33:11.070]  Very, very hard indeed.
[33:11.870 --> 33:20.450]  You know, I just read this month an article about Clear Channel was laying off hundreds of DJs, which really surprised me because I didn't know they had hundreds of DJs left.
[33:20.570 --> 33:22.250]  I thought they had already laid them all off.
[33:22.810 --> 33:28.950]  But so despite the fact that they had so few DJs anywhere, they still thought that was too many and they got rid of them.
[33:29.510 --> 33:33.350]  But WBA, I don't think we'll ever be automated in that way.
[33:33.510 --> 33:40.110]  What you're hearing right now is us talking 734 on a Wednesday here in New York.
[33:40.250 --> 33:43.950]  And I think that kind of local live radio...
[33:43.950 --> 33:44.570]  Didn't give the dates.
[33:44.770 --> 33:46.530]  People could think that you're on tape right now.
[33:46.570 --> 33:48.190]  Well, I want to be able to reuse this next week.
[33:48.370 --> 33:48.670]  Oh, yeah.
[33:48.770 --> 33:48.930]  Okay.
[33:50.630 --> 33:58.210]  This sort of live local radio is something that is dying in America, but continues to stay alive here on WBAI.
[33:58.410 --> 34:00.650]  And we'd really love it if you'd help us keep it alive.
[34:00.770 --> 34:02.650]  212-209-2950.
[34:02.910 --> 34:03.610]  Here's what we're going to do.
[34:03.730 --> 34:03.910]  Okay.
[34:04.030 --> 34:08.050]  Because I want to put our money where our mouth is or whatever the phrase is.
[34:09.110 --> 34:09.910]  We usually...
[34:09.910 --> 34:16.450]  What happens is we have some kind of DVD pack or whatever it is that we've been working on calendars.
[34:17.190 --> 34:18.510]  But we don't have that this time.
[34:18.610 --> 34:25.370]  This time we just have our mournful voices asking for you to please help us at this special time of need.
[34:25.650 --> 34:26.870]  We're going to...
[34:26.870 --> 34:31.810]  Instead of donating what we donate usually with these various products, we're just going to donate cash.
[34:32.130 --> 34:34.190]  So we'll donate $500.
[34:35.070 --> 34:38.670]  $500 from $2,600 to this particular show right now.
[34:39.910 --> 34:41.850]  But I want to see a call come in.
[34:41.950 --> 34:45.670]  I want to see someone else show that they will do the same thing.
[34:45.950 --> 34:47.830]  And not ask for anything in return.
[34:48.030 --> 34:49.090]  Yeah, I can get a t-shirt.
[34:49.190 --> 34:50.350]  Maybe I'll get a t-shirt for that.
[34:50.490 --> 34:50.650]  You know?
[34:51.070 --> 34:52.630]  But that's not why.
[34:52.750 --> 34:53.890]  That's not why you should be calling.
[34:53.890 --> 34:59.670]  You should be calling to keep the radio station afloat, to keep it going, to support it, to become an investor in the place.
[35:00.110 --> 35:06.690]  So if we see a call or two come in, 212-209-2950, then, you know, it makes sense.
[35:06.730 --> 35:07.390]  And look what you've done.
[35:07.510 --> 35:12.930]  By making that call, by making that pledge for whatever you can afford, all of a sudden, a lot more is coming in.
[35:13.430 --> 35:14.650]  Does that seem logical?
[35:15.210 --> 35:19.030]  So are you going to just donate this or should it be structured as a matching pledge?
[35:19.650 --> 35:20.490]  Well, I don't know.
[35:20.490 --> 35:24.930]  Oh, a matching pledge, then we get $499 that technically the matching pledge wouldn't go through.
[35:25.090 --> 35:25.490]  I don't know.
[35:25.650 --> 35:26.210]  That'd be nice.
[35:26.550 --> 35:27.230]  Yes, Brian.
[35:27.590 --> 35:29.170]  I have confidence in our listeners.
[35:29.370 --> 35:29.550]  All right.
[35:29.610 --> 35:31.010]  Well, let's see.
[35:31.390 --> 35:35.030]  You said that if somebody calls in, you could do that.
[35:35.170 --> 35:41.090]  So basically, if anybody calls to pledge in, like $60, you'll get a great WBI t-shirt.
[35:41.090 --> 35:45.470]  You could be, you know, pronounce that you're broadcasting the 99%.
[35:45.470 --> 35:49.570]  You could really multiply your $60 pledge to $560.
[35:50.130 --> 35:51.570]  What kind of a return on that?
[35:51.730 --> 35:56.010]  That's like a, that's like a nine, like that's a huge return on your investment.
[35:56.210 --> 35:58.750]  Call 212-209-2950.
[35:59.230 --> 36:07.770]  Multiply your investment like eightfold and, and be happy that you've really supported a good cause that you're enjoying every week.
[36:07.770 --> 36:11.870]  Yeah, because that's, that's, it does feel good to be able to do that.
[36:11.870 --> 36:14.910]  I'm hoping a lot of people listening now will also feel inspired.
[36:15.050 --> 36:29.630]  Consider this kind of like the no frills type of fundraiser where basically if you really support the place, you really just want it to be on the air, you're willing to, to throw some cash in and, and, and just keep it going and get the satisfaction of knowing that you helped,
[36:29.730 --> 36:30.590]  that you got there.
[36:31.710 --> 36:33.050]  We're going to make that donation.
[36:33.050 --> 36:37.770]  We're not asking for anything in return other than that this place remains strong and that our listeners are out there.
[36:37.950 --> 36:43.090]  We have a place to talk about the various things that we've been talking about and so much more.
[36:43.310 --> 36:46.650]  So much history has been made over these airwaves and I'd like that to continue.
[36:46.890 --> 36:51.490]  What's, what's gone on in the last few months with the Occupy Wall Street movement, a lot of that's been on the radio here.
[36:51.650 --> 36:52.390]  That's real history.
[36:52.890 --> 36:54.070]  Thank God this place was around.
[36:54.930 --> 37:01.450]  But also in the hacker world over the decades where this radio show has been on since 1988, we have covered so much, would not have been covered.
[37:01.530 --> 37:03.530]  We probably wouldn't be having hope conferences.
[37:03.530 --> 37:09.810]  We probably wouldn't be having all kinds of things happening that are assumed to be happening right now.
[37:09.950 --> 37:14.550]  We wouldn't have had the opportunity to reach so many people without a radio station like WBAI.
[37:14.890 --> 37:16.670]  212-209-2950.
[37:16.890 --> 37:18.410]  I see there's two calls on the line and that's great.
[37:18.730 --> 37:22.470]  It shows that people are motivated and they do care about the place.
[37:22.670 --> 37:24.290]  And yes, we will pledge $500.
[37:24.610 --> 37:26.930]  And I think, you know, we'll pledge that regardless.
[37:27.510 --> 37:30.910]  Even if those two calls are the only ones who call in, but I hope there's a lot more out there.
[37:31.210 --> 37:35.670]  But it would be nice just to show you the power if that is matched.
[37:35.690 --> 37:43.670]  If we raise another $500, we've suddenly brought in $1,000 to this hour without even bringing in any premiums.
[37:43.730 --> 37:45.850]  And I think that's a very strong statement to make.
[37:46.270 --> 37:48.670]  212-209-2950.
[37:48.670 --> 37:49.670]  Support off the hook.
[37:50.070 --> 37:51.570]  Support WBAI.
[37:51.730 --> 37:57.570]  Support the hundreds of volunteer staff that come in here on a typical week and make magic happen.
[37:59.030 --> 37:59.550]  Emmanuel.
[37:59.550 --> 38:00.170]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[38:00.590 --> 38:14.310]  I wanted to point out, if people think this is an anomaly with you with $2,600 donating $500 cash to WBAI for getting other people to pledge, this is not an isolated incident.
[38:16.230 --> 38:26.510]  Every fundraiser, practically $2,600 donates probably more than $500 worth of hacker-related gifts.
[38:26.510 --> 38:29.830]  So this has been going on for decades.
[38:30.050 --> 38:33.990]  I mean, probably tens and tens of thousands of dollars.
[38:34.190 --> 38:46.730]  The hacker community, book authors, and all kinds of people, $2,600 especially, donating their work to people who want to support this radio show and this radio station.
[38:46.730 --> 38:48.810]  So, be part of that.
[38:48.990 --> 38:50.030]  Be part of that community.
[38:50.550 --> 38:54.370]  Call, pledge whatever you can, 212-209-2950.
[38:54.730 --> 38:57.450]  You enjoy the show or you wouldn't be listening right now.
[38:57.670 --> 38:59.270]  So, lend a hand.
[38:59.570 --> 39:01.270]  212-209-2950.
[39:01.270 --> 39:05.690]  And like I said, even if you hate the show, in a couple hours, you probably will like what you're hearing on the radio.
[39:05.870 --> 39:08.790]  So, it's still a reason to support the radio station.
[39:08.990 --> 39:09.910]  What's on in two hours?
[39:10.030 --> 39:11.010]  That's so much better than us.
[39:11.130 --> 39:11.490]  I don't know.
[39:11.570 --> 39:12.010]  I don't know.
[39:12.110 --> 39:14.050]  But why don't you tune in and find out?
[39:14.350 --> 39:18.410]  Well, Emmanuel, you know, and even if they hate the show, they get to participate in the show.
[39:18.550 --> 39:28.070]  There's so many commercial shows out there that you don't get to, you know, write in and really influence and say, hey, maybe you should check out this story or suggest things.
[39:28.090 --> 39:29.830]  You get to participate with BAI.
[39:29.890 --> 39:31.310]  You get to participate with our show.
[39:31.530 --> 39:37.830]  We're here as a resource just as much as a program and, you know, entertainment or news.
[39:38.090 --> 39:42.610]  So, you know, even if you hate it, you can bring something to the table and we accept that.
[39:42.830 --> 39:46.130]  Every one of us has basically come in off the street.
[39:46.370 --> 39:47.950]  Kyle, you somehow came in over the phone line.
[39:48.650 --> 39:50.970]  And Bernie also, we called you at least.
[39:52.110 --> 39:54.950]  And we're all participating in that particular way.
[39:55.070 --> 40:00.090]  You can't just go into a commercial radio station and become part of it.
[40:00.170 --> 40:02.110]  You can't become part of a show.
[40:02.230 --> 40:06.630]  You can't start volunteering to help and actually do something significant.
[40:07.050 --> 40:08.490]  You can't steer the ship.
[40:08.630 --> 40:12.290]  You can't go in a different direction and say, I want to talk about this particular issue.
[40:12.610 --> 40:14.410]  And, you know, if you don't believe me, try it.
[40:14.990 --> 40:22.250]  Go down the dial and stop at every single station and say, what are my odds of calling those people and having them say, sure, come on by.
[40:22.270 --> 40:27.510]  And maybe we can put you on the air and you can do something different that no one else is doing.
[40:28.130 --> 40:32.450]  BAI, I dare say, is the only station in this city that you can do that with.
[40:33.370 --> 40:36.170]  Even public radio, which, you know, produces a lot of great stuff.
[40:36.170 --> 40:41.410]  You can't just walk into, you know, the offices of the local public radio station and say, hey, I got a great idea.
[40:41.510 --> 40:42.470]  Why don't you put me on the air?
[40:42.970 --> 40:43.910]  It's not going to happen.
[40:44.510 --> 40:44.830]  Yeah.
[40:44.990 --> 40:45.930]  Why do you think that is?
[40:46.370 --> 40:49.310]  I mean, people think public radio is that, but it's not really.
[40:49.490 --> 40:51.430]  It's, I mean, they have good programming.
[40:51.430 --> 40:52.090]  I listen to them.
[40:53.110 --> 40:57.030]  I hear some fun things, but it's, it's, it's carefully produced.
[40:57.750 --> 40:58.850]  It's very structured.
[40:59.350 --> 41:01.350]  A lot of it is simulcast nationwide.
[41:02.470 --> 41:03.190]  It's rare.
[41:03.450 --> 41:04.150]  I'm sorry, go ahead.
[41:04.610 --> 41:05.650]  No, no, I was agreeing.
[41:05.750 --> 41:05.930]  Go ahead.
[41:05.970 --> 41:06.130]  Okay.
[41:06.130 --> 41:09.870]  Well, it's, it's rare that somebody can just go in there and do their own thing.
[41:09.890 --> 41:20.050]  I mean, you have, you have college radio stations and they're, they are decreasing a number two, which is a very sad thing where people can start their own programs, mostly music oriented.
[41:20.450 --> 41:21.890]  BAI is mostly talk oriented.
[41:22.890 --> 41:27.190]  It's, it's not something that's very common, but it is something that's very appreciated.
[41:27.190 --> 41:43.390]  And it's, it's awfully ironic to me that something that people almost universally hold up as a shining example of what radio could be is something that isn't being emulated in so many parts of, of the country, even the world.
[41:43.850 --> 41:44.750]  And Emmanuel?
[41:45.010 --> 41:45.250]  Yes.
[41:45.250 --> 42:04.390]  It's, I think it's also, if you're doing comparison between a public radio, like NPR and, uh, and Pacifica and, you know, WBAI is that, uh, so-called public radio stations get, uh, about half of their funding from, uh, corporate underwriters, which WBAI does not do.
[42:04.570 --> 42:12.190]  WBAI isn't virtually entirely listener supported, which is really an amazing model.
[42:13.130 --> 42:18.490]  It's really a democracy that does not exist anywhere else on the dial.
[42:18.910 --> 42:27.930]  Do you think if we, if we walked into the offices of Exxon or something and asked them to give us a corporate grant for this radio station, do you think, do you think we'd have a shot of actually getting one?
[42:28.430 --> 42:29.170]  Well, heck no.
[42:29.370 --> 42:33.530]  But, um, the point is we don't want to...
[42:33.530 --> 42:34.030]  See, I disagree.
[42:34.170 --> 42:35.730]  I think, I think they would give us money.
[42:35.810 --> 42:40.410]  I think they, in, in the hopes that they could influence our programming, I think they would give us money.
[42:40.610 --> 42:43.310]  It seems like they wouldn't, but, uh, you know, what?
[42:43.450 --> 42:44.270]  See, I think you're wrong.
[42:44.410 --> 42:51.690]  And the reason I think you're wrong is if we went in and we said, hey, Exxon, we need a thousand dollars this offer, this hour, they would say a thousand dollars.
[42:51.810 --> 42:53.630]  We don't have grants that small.
[42:53.970 --> 42:55.110]  So let's ask for 10,000.
[42:55.150 --> 42:59.070]  So, so, so they would, yeah, they would want to give us, you know, tens of thousands of dollars.
[42:59.210 --> 43:04.070]  They'd want to really change the program and they'd really want to make us into something we're not.
[43:04.530 --> 43:11.630]  But can we bring it up to the point where they're about to like sign the check and then say, okay, we're not going to go through with this just to prove that it can be done?
[43:11.710 --> 43:12.610]  Because I think it can be done.
[43:13.470 --> 43:13.790]  What?
[43:13.950 --> 43:16.050]  Getting, getting small amounts of money out of Exxon?
[43:16.170 --> 43:17.010]  Getting big amounts of money.
[43:17.130 --> 43:19.050]  The point is, I think it's doable.
[43:19.230 --> 43:20.330]  I think they would go for it.
[43:20.390 --> 43:21.830]  I think many corporations would.
[43:22.070 --> 43:29.150]  Can you imagine though, if we had to say at the top of the hour, this program is brought to you by people who spill, you know, oil into, into the ocean?
[43:29.270 --> 43:30.190]  Well, we don't have to say it now.
[43:30.270 --> 43:32.690]  You said it at 10, two or a quarter, two.
[43:32.870 --> 43:39.430]  So yeah, you don't have to, but no, it's, um, this is the kind of thing that, that, uh, radio stations do.
[43:39.710 --> 43:42.850]  And NPR is an example of a network that does do that.
[43:43.010 --> 43:43.790]  Pacifica does not.
[43:44.050 --> 43:44.790]  BAI does not.
[43:45.170 --> 43:46.330]  That's why we have our listeners.
[43:46.350 --> 43:49.650]  And we thank our listeners constantly, uh, for their support.
[43:49.650 --> 43:52.490]  And we hope that they're out there for us at times like this.
[43:52.810 --> 43:53.530]  Yes, exactly.
[43:53.570 --> 43:55.070]  Our listeners, it is all you.
[43:55.250 --> 43:57.530]  You are the ones that have kept us on the air for 51 years.
[43:57.670 --> 44:00.150]  You are all that's ever going to keep us on the air ever.
[44:00.290 --> 44:08.070]  I mean, like if you're, if you're hearing the noises that are coming out of my face right now, you're part of the population that, uh, has single-handedly kept us going all this time.
[44:08.250 --> 44:11.110]  And, um, the only population that has the power to keep doing that.
[44:11.210 --> 44:23.610]  So if you call 212-209-2950 and continue that, uh, great legacy of us being able to bring you this radio station completely and totally supported by you, then, uh, I think that would be, I think that's a wonderful goal.
[44:23.730 --> 44:32.390]  I'm happy to see the calls coming in because they have been calling in and, uh, and that's great because it, it proves that people do care just about the radio part of all this.
[44:32.590 --> 44:38.850]  It's not about, uh, the Tupperware, whatever it is that we're offering to, uh, to entice you to, uh, to call in.
[44:39.010 --> 44:39.870]  I don't think we have Tupperware.
[44:40.050 --> 44:41.710]  Yeah, when would we ever, I'd pledge for that.
[44:42.190 --> 44:43.710]  Hacker Tupperware, something to think about.
[44:44.270 --> 44:48.130]  Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's about, uh, supporting the actual station itself.
[44:48.290 --> 44:50.830]  What we, uh, what we do on a day-to-day basis.
[44:50.870 --> 44:56.930]  We've been doing since that day in 1960 when this station in the biggest donation of all was given to Pacifica.
[44:57.270 --> 44:58.030]  Yeah, it's true.
[44:58.170 --> 45:01.850]  It used to be a commercial radio station because, hey, we're right here at 99.5 in the dial.
[45:01.990 --> 45:08.130]  You notice most stations above 92 are commercial stations and everything below 92 is non-commercial.
[45:08.130 --> 45:09.910]  That's how it is throughout the United States.
[45:10.350 --> 45:18.110]  And, um, and, and one day the people who owned, uh, WBAI, which was a, uh, uh, an actual commercial radio station.
[45:18.370 --> 45:19.470]  Broadcast Associates Inc.
[45:19.530 --> 45:20.310]  is what it stands for.
[45:20.410 --> 45:21.270]  World Broadcasters?
[45:21.590 --> 45:22.130]  No, no.
[45:22.370 --> 45:23.330]  Broadcast Associates.
[45:23.490 --> 45:24.670]  I thought it was World Broadcasters.
[45:24.670 --> 45:28.870]  No, I thought that, I might be wrong, but I thought the W is just because, you know, we're in this half of the country.
[45:28.990 --> 45:30.190]  Well, now it stands for We Beg at Intervals.
[45:30.550 --> 45:31.870]  That's what WBAI stands for.
[45:32.050 --> 45:33.910]  We are actually, no, you know, no kidding.
[45:34.030 --> 45:38.530]  We are the first station in the whole country to actually ask for listener support.
[45:38.530 --> 45:39.550]  So look what we started.
[45:40.090 --> 45:51.670]  We, we, we got it started and everybody else followed and we're still doing it because it works and because that's, that's the best way I think to, uh, to run a radio station so that the listeners have input and, and feel like they're a part of things.
[45:51.670 --> 45:52.470]  Hey, Emmanuel?
[45:52.630 --> 45:52.970]  Yes, go ahead.
[45:53.350 --> 45:54.030]  Um, not Bernie.
[45:54.310 --> 45:55.630]  Kyle, I'm so confused here.
[45:55.730 --> 45:55.930]  Go ahead.
[45:55.990 --> 45:56.110]  Yeah.
[45:56.210 --> 46:00.470]  I was just wondering if you could let us know, um, what people are getting as thank yous again tonight.
[46:00.730 --> 46:03.990]  Um, well, they're getting thank yous, big thank yous from us.
[46:04.190 --> 46:13.050]  Uh, and, uh, and that's pretty much, um, it, unless they want to get a t-shirt for a pledge of $60 or more or various other WBAI, um, uh, items.
[46:13.190 --> 46:14.170]  Mike has just run out of here.
[46:14.270 --> 46:16.590]  He's either disgusted, uh, or he's going to get a list.
[46:16.730 --> 46:17.330]  Oh, that's good.
[46:17.490 --> 46:28.550]  Hopefully of, of other things, but every tally person down there has been specially trained to tell you, uh, for the amount that you're pledging exactly what it is that you can get if, if you want to get some, some premium on top of this.
[46:28.670 --> 46:41.050]  And I have to say also, uh, since these are station premiums, they'll go through a lot faster than the premiums that we have to deliver and manufacture and collect, uh, when we offer other things, uh, during other, other fun drives.
[46:41.190 --> 46:49.210]  Uh, so if you're concerned about getting things in a timely manner, uh, this is probably the timeliest you'll ever get it because it's coming directly from the radio station.
[46:49.490 --> 46:51.310]  212-209-2950.
[46:51.510 --> 46:54.430]  But again, it's about supporting the idea of non-commercial radio.
[46:54.670 --> 47:01.530]  It's about looking around you on the FM dial and seeing the garbage that's out there and realizing that, Hey, you're listening to this for a reason.
[47:02.050 --> 47:05.810]  And, uh, it's, uh, it's, it's better and you can be a part of it.
[47:05.890 --> 47:11.150]  And, uh, we're more intelligent than just having the same crappy songs played over and over again.
[47:11.230 --> 47:13.410]  I don't care what genre of music we're talking about.
[47:13.610 --> 47:17.030]  You're still being talked down to when you have the voice.
[47:17.210 --> 47:17.650]  Try this.
[47:17.790 --> 47:18.670]  This is an interesting experiment.
[47:18.830 --> 47:21.950]  I mentioned that, that, uh, below 92 are non-commercial radio stations.
[47:22.070 --> 47:26.630]  That's, that's a law that says that every station below 92 has to not have commercials.
[47:26.850 --> 47:30.550]  You can have stations above 92 like ours that don't have commercials as well.
[47:30.650 --> 47:31.510]  It's very, very rare.
[47:31.670 --> 47:37.710]  And as I said, this was a commercial radio station back in 1960 that was donated and became a non-commercial radio station.
[47:37.830 --> 47:46.610]  But try this, go below 92 and just listen to people talking, uh, people, um, talking about music they're playing or maybe the news or something like that.
[47:46.770 --> 47:49.310]  And then hit the first station above 92.
[47:49.310 --> 47:50.850]  And you can do this anywhere in the country.
[47:51.030 --> 48:03.430]  And I, I guarantee you that the first station you hit 92.1, 92.3, whatever the first station after 92 is, the voice will suddenly be so much louder and commanding and like the voice of God.
[48:03.430 --> 48:06.710]  And they're screaming at you, trying to get you to buy their garbage.
[48:06.910 --> 48:12.050]  And that's because they're commercial radio and they believe louder is better.
[48:12.290 --> 48:16.310]  And they just constantly are blaring this information, which is not information.
[48:16.310 --> 48:20.650]  It's just, it's just hawking over and over again, uh, trying to sell you products.
[48:21.050 --> 48:24.630]  Uh, that is the epitome of what commercial radio is all about.
[48:25.370 --> 48:35.790]  BAI is if you're, if you're going station by station, all of a sudden you get this sort of quiet point where people pause sometimes to think and, uh, you don't have as much compression.
[48:35.970 --> 48:40.110]  It doesn't sound like the voice of God, which I think is what... We're talking at you, right, Emmanuel?
[48:40.350 --> 48:48.710]  And, and, and the thing with even some of our public radio friends is, is it's very calculated and they're still relaying a very particular point of view at you.
[48:48.930 --> 48:51.190]  I feel like BAI is a little bit more of a conversation.
[48:51.430 --> 48:51.710]  Mm-hmm.
[48:51.810 --> 48:52.750]  I'd like to think that.
[48:52.870 --> 48:53.150]  I like that.
[48:53.150 --> 48:54.630]  And I think most weeks it is.
[48:54.930 --> 49:01.090]  I mean, we, we played the conversation we had last week with a caller who was upset at the, at the speed of getting premiums.
[49:01.410 --> 49:03.170]  And, uh, we did something about it.
[49:03.350 --> 49:12.130]  We, uh, we acted on it and, and that's why we're doing this week so that, uh, people don't feel like they're, uh, they're not getting what they're pledging for.
[49:12.470 --> 49:16.210]  We're, we're on top of the situation and everybody here cares about that kind of thing.
[49:16.390 --> 49:18.490]  But, uh, Rob, then Bernie.
[49:18.690 --> 49:20.250]  It absolutely is a conversation though.
[49:20.350 --> 49:25.070]  I mean, there is such a diverse mix of, uh, shows here on this station of all different subjects, all different stripes.
[49:25.230 --> 49:26.690]  I mean, there are shows on this station that I love.
[49:26.770 --> 49:30.290]  There are shows on this station that I don't love, but I love that there is this variety.
[49:30.430 --> 49:35.710]  I mean, you turn on any other commercial Anything above 92 in this city and anywhere else.
[49:35.930 --> 49:38.330]  And there will be stations that maybe you're okay with.
[49:38.450 --> 49:39.450]  Maybe they're crap.
[49:39.810 --> 49:41.330]  But you know what you're getting every time.
[49:41.330 --> 49:42.090]  It's the same every time.
[49:42.150 --> 49:43.050]  It's like a McDonald's burger.
[49:43.510 --> 49:51.010]  You turn on WBAI and there will be... If you turn it on at a time you've never turned it on before, there will be something that will at least be different.
[49:51.010 --> 49:55.630]  At least not be the generic, automated, robotic crap that everyone else is trying to feed you.
[49:55.630 --> 49:55.630]  Sure.
[49:55.950 --> 49:58.070]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[49:58.250 --> 49:59.230]  That's the number to call the pledge.
[49:59.370 --> 50:01.110]  Please pledge whatever you can afford.
[50:01.290 --> 50:02.430]  Keep the radio station going.
[50:02.550 --> 50:03.410]  Keep WBAI going.
[50:03.510 --> 50:04.530]  Keep off the hook on the air.
[50:04.670 --> 50:05.110]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[50:05.390 --> 50:24.750]  I just want to mention, you just barely touched on something that just resonated with me, that when you tune below 92 megahertz, the non-commercial part of the FM radio broadcasting spectrum, you hear listener-supported and public radio stations, and they're not blasting in your ear.
[50:24.750 --> 50:26.230]  And screaming in your ear.
[50:26.430 --> 50:32.930]  And you mentioned the word compression for a non-technical listener, or for, well, maybe any of our listeners that are interested in technical topics.
[50:33.250 --> 50:38.050]  Compression is a technique, not like compressing bytes to make a compressed file.
[50:39.230 --> 50:45.090]  This is compressing the average audio level to something that's really high.
[50:45.090 --> 50:49.270]  You may remember back in the day TV commercials where it just seemed so much louder than the program content.
[50:49.270 --> 50:50.190]  They're not louder.
[50:50.490 --> 50:59.530]  It's just the average level between the peak and the valley of the dynamic range of the audio content is increased to all the way at the very top.
[50:59.670 --> 51:01.310]  And they're just cranking this out.
[51:01.430 --> 51:08.950]  And it's a great analogy here between the content of listener-supported radio and the lack of compression.
[51:09.190 --> 51:15.790]  With lack of audio compression, you have way more dynamic range between the peaks and the low parts.
[51:15.790 --> 51:20.950]  So you can hear whispers and you can hear the cymbal crashes and screams, that sort of thing.
[51:21.230 --> 51:30.010]  But you have a... with this lower compression ratio, you also have a wider dynamic range of content.
[51:30.330 --> 51:33.390]  And a bit of a more intimate experience, right?
[51:33.890 --> 51:34.310]  Right.
[51:34.490 --> 51:36.190]  It seems more real.
[51:36.410 --> 51:39.610]  It's not like everything just... like a fire hose in your ear.
[51:39.610 --> 51:50.070]  It's a wide dynamic range of audio... of the audio level and a wide dynamic range of content.
[51:50.350 --> 51:56.030]  All the wide dynamic range of ideas you get from listener-supported radio like WBAI.
[51:56.210 --> 52:09.150]  If you support this idea, call 212-209-2950 and pledge support for lower audio compression levels and wider dynamic range of content and ideas.
[52:09.150 --> 52:10.910]  Of course, we do have our blemishes.
[52:11.530 --> 52:21.210]  Some of you might hear the high-pitched squeal that is on the air right now because of our phone problems, which continue and hopefully will be fixed by the next time we go on the air.
[52:21.950 --> 52:23.850]  But yeah, that's sort of part of the process.
[52:23.850 --> 52:29.850]  It's not an easy thing to keep a radio station running, especially in New York City, especially when you're on the Empire State Building, which we are.
[52:29.950 --> 52:36.350]  And I think that's a hack in itself that a station like this is on top of the Empire State Building and transmitting, getting into four states.
[52:36.510 --> 52:38.370]  And of course, that's not even counting online.
[52:38.650 --> 52:40.130]  It's not counting the archives.
[52:40.450 --> 52:42.250]  So we're able to reach a lot of people.
[52:42.370 --> 52:47.170]  That kind of thing usually is beyond the reach of most non-commercial stations.
[52:47.310 --> 52:48.110]  BAI is different.
[52:48.510 --> 52:57.930]  We, through a series of good luck and skill, we've managed to put ourselves in a position where we can reach so many people.
[52:57.930 --> 52:59.390]  212-209-2950.
[52:59.710 --> 53:04.150]  Good luck and skill, yes, but also through paying rent, which we need your help with.
[53:04.250 --> 53:06.150]  212-209-2950.
[53:06.390 --> 53:07.530]  This is what your money goes to.
[53:07.670 --> 53:12.810]  We wish that the folks who own the Empire State Building would donate the transmitter space for free.
[53:12.870 --> 53:15.170]  That would save us a lot of money, but they don't want to.
[53:15.990 --> 53:17.350]  And you can help us.
[53:17.410 --> 53:24.750]  Let me also point out that, of course, here, as with the other shows on this radio station, people are not getting paid to do radio.
[53:25.390 --> 53:28.890]  We do this because we love doing it, because we're committed, because we believe in it.
[53:29.450 --> 53:40.390]  And in many places, go ahead into the commercial radio world and see how many people will do what they do there for nothing, will come in because they want to do what it is that they're getting paid for.
[53:40.450 --> 53:50.530]  And they get paid a lot to do that, to get on the radio and simply announce songs and act like idiots, you know, and drive time and do silly things.
[53:50.530 --> 53:59.450]  Well, we can act like idiots for free, and we can play all kinds of interesting things as well and talk about it and spend time and be controversial.
[53:59.970 --> 54:01.130]  That's what it's all about.
[54:01.290 --> 54:03.570]  That's what makes non-commercial radio very different.
[54:03.570 --> 54:08.570]  But in addition to that, we're donating to the cars ourselves because we believe in it.
[54:09.570 --> 54:11.690]  I don't think it gets any more sincere than that.
[54:11.690 --> 54:13.930]  212-209-2950.
[54:13.930 --> 54:15.030]  Please join us.
[54:15.850 --> 54:17.130]  Phone lines are open right now.
[54:17.270 --> 54:21.290]  And as I said, we've donated $500 of our own to the cause.
[54:21.630 --> 54:23.790]  Please join us and donate whatever you can afford.
[54:23.910 --> 54:25.370]  Again, we have these amazing BAI.
[54:25.470 --> 54:27.070]  We have the 99% t-shirts.
[54:27.530 --> 54:29.590]  They got everybody who pledges 60 and above.
[54:29.870 --> 54:31.810]  We have other premium levels as well.
[54:32.290 --> 54:36.390]  Way too many to even list here on the radio station because it's pages and pages of it.
[54:36.390 --> 54:42.430]  So if you call 212-209-2950 and ask, somebody there will be able to help you and give you all the information.
[54:42.570 --> 54:56.530]  But the important thing is that we do well and that we know the listening support is out there so we can continue with this amazing hack that has been going on for 51 years where we have a radio station on top of the Empire State Building reaching four states and not having a single commercial.
[54:56.870 --> 54:58.630]  212-209-2950.
[54:58.970 --> 54:59.850]  Last words, guys.
[54:59.950 --> 55:00.890]  We're almost out of time.
[55:01.310 --> 55:08.750]  You know, this is the season when a lot of people are asking you to separate yourself from your money and give it to, you know, to pay for radio.
[55:08.950 --> 55:14.570]  Commercially, you buy some product you don't need and some small fraction of your money does in fact go to radio.
[55:14.790 --> 55:20.510]  But isn't the better holiday gift democracy keeping these sorts of voices on the air?
[55:20.590 --> 55:21.390]  You can send...
[55:21.390 --> 55:23.890]  You can make a donation in honor of someone.
[55:24.050 --> 55:34.150]  And I think that, you know, the right people, the people you want to be with, they will probably appreciate that more than, you know, some of the junk that you hear advertised on the commercial radio stations.
[55:34.150 --> 55:36.250]  212-209-2950.
[55:36.410 --> 55:39.410]  Just a few minutes left to show your support to this program.
[55:39.530 --> 55:41.330]  You can pledge online later if you want to.
[55:42.070 --> 55:43.470]  Any last words, Bernie, Kyle?
[55:44.350 --> 55:45.210]  Real quick.
[55:45.390 --> 55:48.630]  When you buy a product, the price of that product includes...
[55:48.630 --> 55:54.570]  It is higher because of the advertising that you hear on radio when it's advertised on radio.
[55:54.910 --> 55:57.550]  So that's a really crazy business model.
[55:57.670 --> 56:07.050]  If you don't want to support higher prices to support radio advertising, call WBAI and support listener-supported radio, 212-209-2950.
[56:07.670 --> 56:19.510]  I'd like to just say that, you know, if anybody gave it a bit of thought, just in the past year, there's been some amazing stories and topics that we've brought to you.
[56:20.110 --> 56:36.910]  And I think it touches on a lot of what was said in the last couple minutes here as far as bringing content to you and sharing with everybody and letting you form the conversation, be a part of the conversation, but also think of some amazing thing that we brought to you,
[56:36.910 --> 56:49.710]  whether it's the Wall Street stuff or anything else as big as that, or even just the little news stories that you've had the ability to share with other people in your world as a result of the radio show.
[56:49.930 --> 56:53.490]  I mean, that's the kind of stuff that we bring to you because we're passionate about it.
[56:53.710 --> 56:57.310]  So please call in and support the station and support Off The Hook.
[56:57.550 --> 56:57.890]  All right.
[56:57.970 --> 56:59.570]  Thanks so much, guys, for being a part of this.
[56:59.570 --> 57:01.370]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[57:01.550 --> 57:02.770]  Thanks to those callers calling in.
[57:02.930 --> 57:03.830]  Please join them.
[57:04.370 --> 57:08.850]  And we're going out with another Occupy Wall Street song that we discovered from Celestino Anthony.
[57:09.570 --> 57:10.350]  See you next week.
[57:10.430 --> 57:10.630]  Good night.
[57:13.050 --> 57:13.530]  Oh, yeah.
[57:13.570 --> 57:13.930]  Write to us.
[57:14.030 --> 57:15.410]  O-T-H at 2600.com.
[57:15.530 --> 57:16.590]  Don't forget, Hope No.
[57:16.610 --> 57:19.710]  9 tickets this Saturday and Beyond Hope online this weekend.
[57:19.950 --> 57:20.210]  Good night.
[57:26.750 --> 57:27.950]  Quite some time now.
[57:28.090 --> 57:31.870]  The banks have been acting in a way that violates basic decency.
[57:31.870 --> 57:39.610]  Every law, every principle of ethics, they've been bailed out with our money the moment they got what they needed to pay their bonuses.
[57:39.910 --> 57:41.890]  They said, oops, we'd better turn off the spigot.
[57:42.070 --> 57:43.390]  No money to refinance.
[57:43.590 --> 57:44.570]  No money for jobs.
[57:44.730 --> 57:45.730]  No money for education.
[57:46.070 --> 57:54.510]  It has been one of the most heinous moments in our politics where the plutocrats got everything they needed and real people got nothing.
[58:46.500 --> 58:50.320]  And so what we're seeing down there in the street, and this is wonderful politics.
[58:50.320 --> 58:51.780]  It's not politicians leading it.
[58:51.860 --> 58:54.760]  It's not even existing leaders from the media.
[58:54.960 --> 58:56.020]  It is real people.
[58:56.180 --> 58:58.460]  This is how political movements really start.
[58:58.660 --> 59:00.420]  The environmental movement started that way.
[59:00.640 --> 59:02.720]  And the labor movement, the peace movement, the women's rights.
[59:02.820 --> 59:03.740]  And this is great to watch.
[59:21.730 --> 59:22.250]  Pearl.
[59:23.530 --> 59:25.350]  All right, all right.
[59:25.350 --> 59:28.470]  You're listening to WBAI New York.
[59:28.470 --> 59:28.590]  All right.
[59:28.870 --> 59:29.110]  All right.