[00:00.000 --> 00:06.280]  The BAI Advisory Board will present William Shakespeare's Henry IV, Part 1.
[00:06.660 --> 00:12.460]  It will be held at the Hudson Park Library at 66 Leroy Street in Manhattan.
[00:12.900 --> 00:15.280]  It is free and open to the public.
[00:26.200 --> 00:29.540]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:29.660 --> 00:31.240]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[00:31.780 --> 00:33.720]  Time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:44.470 --> 00:46.450]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:47.010 --> 00:49.010]  Now I can't make a cough.
[00:49.690 --> 00:51.790]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:54.550 --> 00:57.210]  Bum-diddly-bom for the best, expect the worst.
[00:57.870 --> 00:59.710]  I hope that's understood.
[00:59.930 --> 01:00.770]  Bum-diddly-bom!
[02:12.900 --> 02:13.960]  And good evening to everybody.
[02:14.140 --> 02:14.960]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:15.020 --> 02:17.240]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:17.240 --> 02:18.720]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:19.140 --> 02:20.600]  Hello and happy Pi Day.
[02:21.720 --> 02:23.200]  Okay, we're going to talk about that, Mike.
[02:23.600 --> 02:24.160]  Dotret.
[02:24.580 --> 02:25.420]  Happy Pi Day.
[02:25.640 --> 02:27.180]  Alright, is everybody going to say the same thing?
[02:27.420 --> 02:27.900]  Rob T.
[02:28.000 --> 02:28.360]  Firefly.
[02:29.680 --> 02:31.180]  Happy 7 over 22 day.
[02:31.360 --> 02:33.640]  Uh-huh, and welcome Kyle as well.
[02:33.840 --> 02:34.500]  Hey, what's going on?
[02:34.940 --> 02:35.860]  See, that's a normal greeting.
[02:35.980 --> 02:37.240]  That's what I expect from people.
[02:37.340 --> 02:38.180]  And Bernie S.
[02:38.280 --> 02:38.940]  down in Philadelphia.
[02:39.320 --> 02:42.560]  Actually, I'm in northeastern Pennsylvania, but I am enjoying pi.
[02:42.980 --> 02:44.760]  Okay, that's great to hear.
[02:44.840 --> 02:46.300]  They have very good pi in that part of the state.
[02:46.640 --> 02:52.960]  And every week you're in a different part of Pennsylvania, it seems, just sort of maybe taking a tour of the state, which is great.
[02:53.180 --> 02:53.720]  I get around.
[02:54.360 --> 02:55.800]  So, cell phone or landline today?
[02:56.100 --> 02:59.100]  I'm on a landline, which is probably apparent to you and our listeners.
[02:59.400 --> 03:00.240]  Doesn't he sound much better?
[03:00.420 --> 03:01.380]  Yeah, he sounds fantastic.
[03:01.680 --> 03:02.120]  Yeah, he really does.
[03:02.180 --> 03:03.640]  He should be on the landline all the time, I think.
[03:03.900 --> 03:04.180]  Okay.
[03:04.480 --> 03:05.900]  Oh, I mean, he should be in person, too.
[03:05.980 --> 03:07.400]  I'm not saying just stay on the phone.
[03:08.120 --> 03:08.800]  But, yeah.
[03:09.040 --> 03:09.420]  Okay, I get the message.
[03:09.420 --> 03:09.840]  All right.
[03:10.200 --> 03:11.480]  Because cell phones really sound awful.
[03:11.660 --> 03:14.160]  I mean, that's sort of what we say here week after week.
[03:14.200 --> 03:15.480]  Well, they do that on purpose.
[03:15.760 --> 03:16.020]  Uh-huh.
[03:16.620 --> 03:18.900]  There's been no progress in the cell phone.
[03:19.060 --> 03:21.680]  Well, they try to squeeze as much bandwidth.
[03:22.020 --> 03:26.240]  They try to squeeze us with giving us as little bandwidth as possible.
[03:26.460 --> 03:34.960]  So, when your voice is squeezed into, like, a three kilobit per second stream over the wireless system, that's why you have crappy cell phone calls.
[03:34.960 --> 03:36.620]  And we pay for that pleasure.
[03:36.800 --> 03:37.100]  Yeah.
[03:37.400 --> 03:38.400]  We certainly do.
[03:38.600 --> 03:39.140]  We certainly do.
[03:40.120 --> 03:44.300]  Anything exciting happening in our lives this week that you want us to touch upon?
[03:44.300 --> 03:44.520]  No?
[03:44.840 --> 03:45.240]  Routine?
[03:45.780 --> 03:46.100]  Nothing?
[03:46.840 --> 03:49.000]  I live only for the radio program.
[03:49.840 --> 03:52.300]  I just go into hiding for the other 167 hours.
[03:52.300 --> 03:54.860]  We might as well go into the Pi Day thing.
[03:54.960 --> 03:56.960]  We want to explain it to the folks that might be uninitiated.
[03:57.160 --> 04:01.320]  Today is March 14th, which is 314 in the U.S.
[04:01.700 --> 04:04.600]  way of reckoning, which is the first few digits of Pi.
[04:04.600 --> 04:05.700]  Okay, okay.
[04:05.860 --> 04:06.900]  Do you know when Mario Day is?
[04:07.300 --> 04:07.720]  Mario?
[04:08.200 --> 04:08.600]  Yes.
[04:08.820 --> 04:09.260]  No, I don't.
[04:09.940 --> 04:11.160]  Kyle, maybe you could explain.
[04:11.540 --> 04:21.640]  Well, on the 10th of March, which can be abbreviated with three letters, M-A-R, and with the one and zero for the day...
[04:21.640 --> 04:22.220]  Looks like Mario.
[04:22.360 --> 04:25.280]  If you squint your eyes, you could say that it's Mario.
[04:25.300 --> 04:28.840]  And if you're into the video game from way back, it's kind of a cool thing to say.
[04:29.040 --> 04:32.420]  If we should save that until that's on a Wednesday.
[04:33.100 --> 04:34.800]  We're giving our listeners old news.
[04:34.940 --> 04:35.620]  That's true.
[04:35.740 --> 04:36.140]  That's true.
[04:36.300 --> 04:42.300]  And if you get a pizza with a radius of Z and a depth of A, then the volume of it is Pi ZZA.
[04:43.380 --> 04:43.820]  Okay.
[04:44.000 --> 04:48.580]  Speaking of marking your calendars, here's something that we got from our friends over at Verizon.
[04:48.580 --> 05:06.500]  March 22nd, communities all across the United States, people belonging to CWA, Transport Workers Union members, Jobs with Justice, AFL-CIO activists, and lots of supporters will be holding rallies and actions to spotlight the corporate greed of what they call Verigreedy Verizon.
[05:06.780 --> 05:07.760]  I don't know how to pronounce that.
[05:07.860 --> 05:08.520]  V-E-R-I.
[05:08.840 --> 05:09.780]  Well, by greedy.
[05:10.060 --> 05:11.440]  I think you did fine, yeah.
[05:11.680 --> 05:12.320]  Very greedy.
[05:12.320 --> 05:16.220]  But the I is, you know, it's a long I, so maybe I should say Verigreedy.
[05:16.380 --> 05:17.620]  Remember when we didn't know it was a long I?
[05:18.480 --> 05:18.800]  Verigreedy.
[05:19.000 --> 05:19.160]  Yeah.
[05:19.380 --> 05:28.960]  And in New York, in joint action, CWA and TWU members will protest Verizon's corporate greed and join the fair contract fight of TWU members at the Metropolitan Transit Authority.
[05:29.520 --> 05:30.800]  Not quite sure how that's going to happen.
[05:30.940 --> 05:33.200]  They're going to be riding all the subways and buses and things like that.
[05:33.280 --> 05:34.460]  Bernie, have you heard anything more about this?
[05:35.040 --> 05:37.480]  I wouldn't say I've heard more about it, but I have heard about it.
[05:37.480 --> 05:45.960]  And, you know, there's a lot of good people that work for the phone company, and it's the phone company, not the employees that we generally have problems with.
[05:47.240 --> 05:50.200]  So, you know, I'd like to support these phone company workers.
[05:50.660 --> 05:51.020]  Okay.
[05:51.100 --> 05:51.760]  Well, how can we do that?
[05:51.800 --> 05:52.820]  Not make phone calls that day?
[05:53.100 --> 05:54.940]  You know, that would be really interesting.
[05:54.940 --> 06:01.720]  You know how workers would, like, form a picket line to keep people from going in to do business with some company?
[06:01.860 --> 06:02.100]  Right.
[06:02.260 --> 06:05.360]  How could you do that if you were working for the phone company?
[06:05.360 --> 06:07.680]  You know, E, I've got a suggestion.
[06:07.860 --> 06:09.980]  Why don't people call headquarters, right?
[06:10.480 --> 06:13.300]  Call Verizon headquarters and speak to them about it.
[06:13.580 --> 06:13.720]  You know what?
[06:13.820 --> 06:15.300]  I think this is something...
[06:15.300 --> 06:21.140]  Okay, I want to get into this because, Kyle, you've been involved with a lot of phone calls lately, and we're going to get into that in a moment.
[06:21.240 --> 06:21.720]  Okay, all right.
[06:21.860 --> 06:29.120]  But one of the people I know you've been calling for various reasons is Verizon corporate headquarters.
[06:29.380 --> 06:29.480]  Yeah.
[06:29.600 --> 06:30.500]  Here in New York City.
[06:30.780 --> 06:31.900]  Well, yeah, the New York headquarters.
[06:32.080 --> 06:34.320]  Actually, Verizon is headquartered in New York.
[06:34.320 --> 06:36.500]  Okay, so what we're going to do now, we're going to try and call them.
[06:36.660 --> 06:37.240]  And this is...
[06:37.240 --> 06:38.180]  Keep in mind, this is Verizon.
[06:38.340 --> 06:39.420]  A huge phone company.
[06:39.820 --> 06:40.700]  Huge phone company.
[06:40.860 --> 06:41.520]  You don't know the number?
[06:42.020 --> 06:43.020]  I know what it ends in.
[06:43.040 --> 06:44.620]  If you knew the exchange...
[06:44.620 --> 06:45.520]  I think it's 795.
[06:46.500 --> 06:47.900]  No, I think it's 394.
[06:48.760 --> 06:49.500]  Wasn't it their address?
[06:49.580 --> 06:50.620]  Or 375, maybe.
[06:51.140 --> 06:52.280]  Okay, we don't know the phone number.
[06:53.820 --> 06:54.940]  Do you have something to look it up with?
[06:55.100 --> 06:55.980]  Yeah, I'll check it.
[06:56.080 --> 06:57.240]  Okay, we're going to call them.
[06:57.420 --> 07:02.260]  And you might be surprised at what you hear when you try calling the main switchboard of Verizon.
[07:02.260 --> 07:04.440]  And think back to the old days.
[07:04.540 --> 07:05.900]  Why do you want to talk to them?
[07:06.160 --> 07:10.100]  Well, there's all kinds of messages you want to convey to them sometimes.
[07:10.460 --> 07:13.240]  And if you know our history, you know that we've had lots of dealings with Verizon.
[07:13.800 --> 07:16.660]  And sometimes you just want to talk to a human being.
[07:16.800 --> 07:17.320]  It does happen.
[07:17.460 --> 07:24.140]  Well, I can comment that I actually spent some time calling around to other phone numbers because I was having trouble getting a hold of the headquarters.
[07:24.140 --> 07:30.220]  And it was amazing to sit on the phone for like an hour with someone who works for the company.
[07:31.120 --> 07:33.880]  And they came back and they tried all these different methods.
[07:33.880 --> 07:35.880]  And they said, no, I don't have a way.
[07:35.980 --> 07:37.760]  I don't have a way to contact headquarters.
[07:38.160 --> 07:39.280]  And I just remarked to the person.
[07:39.360 --> 07:40.880]  I was like, you know, that's amazing.
[07:41.060 --> 07:43.000]  I mean, for me, it's sort of amazing.
[07:43.000 --> 07:47.920]  A telephone company doesn't have a phone number that you can actually dial into and contact corporate headquarters.
[07:47.920 --> 07:52.960]  But as an employee of a company like that, that's got to be distressing.
[07:53.180 --> 07:54.480]  Like you work for this big organization.
[07:54.480 --> 07:59.280]  And if you ever wanted to talk to someone in the administrative end, you have absolutely no way of contacting them.
[07:59.400 --> 08:03.040]  So I remarked and that was a part of my experience in finding it.
[08:03.960 --> 08:15.400]  But it's good to hear that, you know, the communication workers are finding other ways to have their corporate entity behind their employment understand their plight.
[08:15.400 --> 08:18.960]  Okay, this dial tone is the dial tone I'm going to use to get a hold of Verizon.
[08:19.160 --> 08:20.660]  Let's call them right now.
[08:23.080 --> 08:23.980]  Corporate headquarters.
[08:24.200 --> 08:26.560]  And we are handing their phone numbers out over the air.
[08:28.660 --> 08:29.560]  Okay, here we go.
[08:30.700 --> 08:31.660]  Verizon Center.
[08:32.140 --> 08:34.580]  At the tone, please record your message.
[08:34.840 --> 08:39.160]  When you have finished recording, you may hang up or press 1 for more options.
[08:39.280 --> 08:39.760]  This is it.
[08:40.740 --> 08:41.940]  One single mailbox.
[08:43.200 --> 08:44.660]  But the entire corporation.
[08:44.660 --> 08:47.220]  Yeah, and it went straight to voicemail, so I think they're away.
[08:47.600 --> 08:48.100]  There's no beep.
[08:49.020 --> 08:49.800]  We could just talk.
[08:49.840 --> 08:50.600]  Are we recording now?
[08:51.480 --> 08:53.180]  Let's just have the show without hanging.
[08:53.320 --> 08:55.100]  Well, I don't want to fill up Verizon's mailbox.
[08:55.300 --> 08:56.140]  That could easily happen.
[08:56.240 --> 08:58.560]  I'm going to hit a star just in case because...
[08:58.560 --> 08:59.360]  Message erase.
[08:59.540 --> 08:59.960]  Oh, see?
[09:00.060 --> 09:01.520]  At the tone, please record your message.
[09:01.520 --> 09:02.320]  Now I'm going to hit a pound sign.
[09:03.300 --> 09:04.120]  Oh, uh-oh.
[09:04.320 --> 09:05.120]  Let me hit another pound sign.
[09:05.500 --> 09:09.360]  If you are satisfied with your message, press 1 to listen to your message.
[09:09.560 --> 09:10.700]  Press 2 to erase.
[09:11.120 --> 09:11.780]  Message review.
[09:15.360 --> 09:17.480]  Press 1 to listen to your message.
[09:17.680 --> 09:19.860]  Press 2 to erase and rerecord.
[09:20.080 --> 09:22.720]  Press 3 to continue recording where you left off.
[09:22.880 --> 09:23.640]  Press 4.
[09:23.900 --> 09:25.360]  I'm going to hit star and see what happens.
[09:26.080 --> 09:28.940]  You have reached Verizon's voice messaging service.
[09:29.240 --> 09:34.320]  To leave a message, please enter the area code and telephone number of the person you are calling.
[09:34.320 --> 09:37.380]  If you have a mailbox on this system, please press pound.
[09:37.920 --> 09:38.280]  Okay.
[09:38.960 --> 09:40.060]  Mailbox number, please.
[09:40.160 --> 09:45.320]  And then you enter the mailbox and you can basically log into anybody's account, including Verizon's main switchboard number.
[09:45.620 --> 09:53.720]  You just would expect more from corporate headquarters than a simple Verizon voice mailbox that every consumer has to start with.
[09:53.840 --> 09:53.960]  Right.
[09:53.960 --> 09:55.560]  So I was amazed when you showed me this.
[09:55.780 --> 10:03.800]  And, you know, back in the old days, you would reach a switchboard with massive amounts of people and you could be switched all over the place and there'd be operators, real people.
[10:04.020 --> 10:05.860]  You get the sense nobody really cares anymore.
[10:06.000 --> 10:16.540]  You know what that really reminds me of is like when those people, when people start these companies where they just have it like registered somewhere to like some PO box that they, it's almost like an absentee running of sorts.
[10:16.540 --> 10:19.100]  It's, it's, it just feels almost like that.
[10:19.320 --> 10:20.340]  Like there's no one actually there.
[10:20.500 --> 10:23.600]  I'm just impressed that Verizon is, as they say, eating their own dog food.
[10:23.720 --> 10:24.880]  They're using their own service.
[10:24.880 --> 10:26.920]  This is the service that you can buy from Verizon.
[10:26.920 --> 10:28.700]  And they're saying it's good enough for us too.
[10:29.480 --> 10:31.840]  That's, if that's not an endorsement, I don't know what it is.
[10:31.840 --> 10:37.640]  Well, I'm sure I'm not going to use it because I'd rather have an answering machine with a three digit code than have one of their services.
[10:37.860 --> 10:41.440]  Well, to be honest, they, this is usually the way they like it.
[10:41.500 --> 10:43.600]  They like making it hard to actually get in touch with them.
[10:46.780 --> 10:47.140]  Right.
[10:47.760 --> 10:49.480]  But a telephone company, come on.
[10:49.640 --> 10:50.640]  I mean, they've got to have an operator.
[10:50.820 --> 10:52.360]  They've got to have the telephone company.
[10:52.460 --> 10:52.580]  Yeah.
[10:52.640 --> 10:52.780]  Sorry.
[10:52.960 --> 10:54.060]  The telephone company.
[10:54.260 --> 11:01.320]  But, uh, and I've, I found it's, it's actually, um, there's, they're actually rare in the fact that it's just going straight to this weird voicemail.
[11:01.500 --> 11:07.100]  Um, a lot of companies, as you said, I've, I've been calling around to different companies for other reasons, but, uh, uh, it's actually very common.
[11:07.100 --> 11:12.940]  If you don't have someone at the company that you're looking for specifically, they'll just simply deny you.
[11:12.940 --> 11:21.260]  So if you do get a hold of a modern, quote, switchboard operator at a corporation of some kind, you have to have a contact there or they won't, they won't refer to, refer you to anyone.
[11:21.400 --> 11:28.040]  You can go through the directories by last name, but you have to know parts of the last name to even get their extension, which is common.
[11:28.080 --> 11:31.420]  I mean, we've sort of expected that and it's been done for quite some time, but.
[11:31.600 --> 11:31.760]  Yeah.
[11:31.840 --> 11:33.260]  Nothing I'm really that surprised by.
[11:33.440 --> 11:34.200]  What does it take?
[11:34.200 --> 11:35.620]  A little more research on their website.
[11:35.620 --> 11:38.140]  Then you call back and you have the name and you, you get in anyway.
[11:38.400 --> 11:39.320]  So it's interesting.
[11:39.660 --> 11:52.120]  Uh, Bernie, I, I, uh, wanted to touch upon this story that, uh, you forwarded to our list, uh, concerning, um, uh, Twitter and, um, somebody who was, uh, charged with transmitting threats over the internet.
[11:52.120 --> 11:54.320]  We're talking about, uh, Justin J.
[11:54.760 --> 11:58.240]  Verneau of Landown, Lansdowne, Pennsylvania.
[11:58.240 --> 12:07.240]  He was charged, uh, with transmitting threats over the internet, according to a United States district attorney, uh, Zane David, uh, Memminger.
[12:07.460 --> 12:16.020]  Uh, the indictment charges that, uh, Verneau used Twitter to send threats to kill and rape a woman and to kill the woman's son.
[12:16.140 --> 12:17.380]  Not very nice things here.
[12:17.380 --> 12:30.000]  Uh, if convicted, the defendant, uh, faces a maximum possible sentence of 25 years in prison, a $1.25 million fine, and a special assessment of $500, which seems kind of bizarre.
[12:30.220 --> 12:40.220]  Uh, now what's interesting here, and the reason we're bringing this up, is it's somehow different when Twitter is involved, uh, than when something happens in real life.
[12:40.360 --> 12:41.880]  Is it, is that, is that accurate?
[12:42.120 --> 12:57.740]  Yeah, there's, uh, there's all these, uh, you know, federal laws are all surrounded around, uh, uh, you know, the constitutions, uh, allowing Congress to pass laws that, that, uh, where there's a, an interstate trade, uh, nexus.
[12:58.140 --> 13:04.720]  And, uh, anything involving a telephone, you know, the telephone system, the federal government says, well, that, that goes across state lines.
[13:05.040 --> 13:06.680]  So, therefore, so does the internet.
[13:07.000 --> 13:08.480]  Therefore, it becomes a federal crime.
[13:08.820 --> 13:25.180]  So, if, uh, you know, if I walked up to you on the street in New York and said, uh, I want to kill you, um, um, or I want you dead, or something like that, as opposed to, uh, me sending you a tweet saying that, um, I could face federal, serious federal charges and,
[13:25.180 --> 13:32.040]  uh, additional charges for using, uh, you know, uh, interstate telephone lines or internet to threaten you.
[13:32.100 --> 13:34.280]  So, it's like a great multiplier.
[13:34.700 --> 13:44.340]  Um, if this was, if this was just a person-to-person thing, the local police probably would have just been involved and, um, would have been just like a state or local offense handled by local cops.
[13:44.460 --> 13:47.140]  There would have been little or no enforcement or prosecution action.
[13:47.620 --> 13:51.080]  Um, or maybe you got charged with a misdemeanor for terroristic threats or something.
[13:51.320 --> 13:56.880]  But now it becomes like this multi-year sentence he's looking at for using Twitter to do it.
[13:57.080 --> 14:02.860]  Yes, it's kind of hard to, to, uh, suggest that they're being a bit overzealous when someone says something horrible like that.
[14:03.220 --> 14:09.780]  Uh, but what you, you raise a very good point because, uh, people are always threatening to kill each other in, in, in the street and in person and things like that.
[14:10.160 --> 14:17.380]  Uh, but I think maybe the difference is that, uh, if you walk up to somebody in the street and say that, it's really their word against, against yours.
[14:17.660 --> 14:27.320]  What if, uh, for instance, you were to send them a letter expressing your desire to end their life, uh, and that letter was presented as evidence, would, would the, uh, penalty then be the same?
[14:27.660 --> 14:39.060]  Uh, well, it'd be different charges, but it would be, it would involve, it could, it could then bring in the feds because you use the mails, which then it would be, uh, uh, harassment by communications, uh, Using a federal mail facility kind of thing.
[14:39.260 --> 14:47.820]  So it would be a slightly different federal offense than if you'd used the Twitterverse, but it would still bring in the feds.
[14:48.000 --> 14:49.180]  You just said Twitterverse, Bernie?
[14:49.360 --> 14:49.480]  Really?
[14:49.480 --> 14:50.240]  You just said that?
[14:50.340 --> 14:50.960]  I did, I know.
[14:50.960 --> 14:51.860]  You were the last one.
[14:51.860 --> 14:54.360]  You were the last person in the studio not to use that word.
[14:55.380 --> 14:56.100]  Oh, boy.
[14:56.760 --> 14:57.120]  Okay.
[14:57.260 --> 14:59.140]  This is a dark day in the history of Off the Hook.
[14:59.140 --> 15:00.120]  It seems like there should be some clarity.
[15:00.300 --> 15:05.600]  And I'm not at all defending this defendant's actions if he really did them.
[15:05.740 --> 15:18.680]  But in any case, I don't think the punishment should be like, you know, 10 times greater if you use the Internet or a telephone line than if you just did it face-to-face.
[15:18.780 --> 15:19.020]  Right.
[15:19.240 --> 15:21.580]  That's the trouble with civil liberties issues.
[15:21.800 --> 15:25.320]  You have to defend people that you find to be horrible people.
[15:25.880 --> 15:37.500]  But it's in the interest of society because you don't want rights to be taken away because, you know, the rights will be taken away to basically even things out with these crazy charges that can now happen if you say something over Twitter.
[15:37.660 --> 15:38.040]  Well, okay.
[15:38.040 --> 15:42.380]  In person, then, if you threaten somebody 25 years in jail now or something like that.
[15:42.720 --> 15:47.000]  Well, first of all, I think I had today's date in the When Will Bernie Say Twitterverse pool.
[15:47.000 --> 15:49.280]  So I'll expect everything after this.
[15:49.340 --> 15:49.980]  Yeah, we'll talk after.
[15:50.200 --> 16:03.600]  But seriously, though, if they're going to be prosecuting people on this level for saying things that terrible online, I mean, I think that shuts down the comments on any YouTube videos and news articles and pretty much everything else that's ever been posted to the Internet because everything gets one of those comments.
[16:04.040 --> 16:11.500]  Now, I'm hearing a lot of this have to do with the fact that it's supposed to be an interstate medium, therefore bringing in the feds because of that.
[16:11.680 --> 16:15.700]  And Bernie mentioned, for instance, that if it was male, chances are you have the same sort of issue.
[16:15.700 --> 16:34.360]  So can we test that this is the actual reason that they're trying to charge us more heavily and say, have people yell across, like physically across state borders, have an argument there and see if that brings in the feds or if this is just some overprosecution of a new medium that the law is just somewhat vague on,
[16:35.020 --> 16:35.640]  such as the Internet?
[16:35.760 --> 16:40.920]  One thing we can certainly say is that this is not something that mainstream media will focus on because why would they?
[16:41.060 --> 16:42.500]  Why would they care about a story like this?
[16:42.500 --> 16:50.400]  But if you look at it carefully, it's significant and it could be a step in a very bad direction if this is to become the norm.
[16:51.080 --> 16:55.960]  I have something else that actually is a disturbing step to something we've seen in the past.
[16:56.620 --> 17:03.360]  This is the case of Richard O'Dwyer, who was an ex-administrator of a video linking website known as TV Shack.
[17:04.080 --> 17:06.220]  And that was based in the United Kingdom.
[17:06.500 --> 17:13.620]  He will be getting a free trip to the United States to face copyright infringement charges, otherwise known as being extradited.
[17:14.160 --> 17:19.820]  Despite public outrage, Home Secretary Theresa May approved the extradition order.
[17:20.160 --> 17:26.720]  And the 23-year-old student has never even been to the United States, but now faces several years in a U.S.
[17:26.880 --> 17:27.200]  prison.
[17:27.200 --> 17:34.500]  This is for downloading programs or content or copyrighted, alleged copyrighted material.
[17:34.840 --> 17:35.940]  And it's just incredible.
[17:36.220 --> 17:40.640]  Can you imagine if United States citizens were subjected to the same thing?
[17:40.840 --> 17:55.340]  If, say, I don't know, Tanzania decided that something that we posted was illegal in their eyes, we could wind up in a Tanzanian jail for... I'm not picking on them for any particular reason, but I'm just saying it's a bizarre thing to expect.
[17:55.740 --> 17:58.960]  And for some reason, we think we can do this.
[17:59.060 --> 18:02.460]  We, being the United States, our government seems to think they can get away with this.
[18:02.540 --> 18:03.480]  And they are getting away with it.
[18:03.580 --> 18:04.920]  That's the thing that really gets me.
[18:04.980 --> 18:06.560]  How do they get away with this?
[18:06.600 --> 18:08.680]  Yeah, I was just going to say they don't think they can get away with it.
[18:08.680 --> 18:09.660]  They can get away with it.
[18:09.740 --> 18:10.860]  They do get away with it.
[18:10.960 --> 18:12.400]  And they ruin people's lives.
[18:13.220 --> 18:17.140]  Meantime, somebody in Afghanistan goes crazy, one of our soldiers, and kills a bunch of innocent people.
[18:17.540 --> 18:18.580]  His name is protected.
[18:18.740 --> 18:22.080]  He's nice and anonymous in some hidden place.
[18:22.080 --> 18:24.740]  We'll never see justice in an Afghan court.
[18:24.880 --> 18:30.300]  But if somebody downloads something we don't like in any country, we can bring them here and lock them up in our prisons.
[18:30.660 --> 18:31.480]  Doesn't make sense.
[18:31.640 --> 18:35.280]  Well, the reason this country does it is simply because they can do it.
[18:35.360 --> 18:36.640]  But it's outrageous.
[18:36.920 --> 18:37.620]  Why can they do it?
[18:37.780 --> 18:38.540]  What, might makes right?
[18:38.620 --> 18:40.000]  Is that what we're dealing with here?
[18:40.140 --> 18:40.340]  Basically.
[18:40.660 --> 18:43.740]  But if you think... Seriously, that's all it seems to come down to.
[18:43.740 --> 18:44.880]  China's got a lot of might, you know.
[18:44.880 --> 18:48.020]  Can we expect to be visiting China soon if we offend them?
[18:48.120 --> 18:50.020]  The United States might not need to be careful with the precedents they set.
[18:50.200 --> 18:53.120]  But anyway, it is a strange and silly thing to do.
[18:53.280 --> 19:06.760]  Because if this person is being prosecuted for the laws of a country that he takes no part in otherwise, you know, just talking about the internet, everyone can't worry about the laws that they possibly could be breaking up foreign countries all over the place.
[19:06.940 --> 19:08.700]  There's nearly 200 countries around the world.
[19:15.120 --> 19:20.720]  Richard O'Dwyer's crime was operating TV Shack, a website that carried links to copyrighted TV shows.
[19:20.880 --> 19:22.960]  He didn't have the TV shows on his site.
[19:23.040 --> 19:24.480]  He had links to the TV shows.
[19:24.620 --> 19:25.240]  And you know what?
[19:25.300 --> 19:27.680]  These are TV shows that are on free television to start with.
[19:27.680 --> 19:39.460]  So if you if you dare to do that, and the reason is they want to control in Europe and United Kingdom and Asia, they want to control it so that you can't watch American TV programs until they decide you're ready to see that.
[19:39.840 --> 19:42.560]  Whereas here we have Hulu and we have TV.com.
[19:42.720 --> 19:43.560]  We can see them anytime.
[19:44.040 --> 19:51.300]  That's all this guy was doing was making it so that people in the United Kingdom for some reason can watch American Idol and all the garbage we have in this country.
[19:51.300 --> 19:53.320]  I mean, yeah, that's a crime of a different nature.
[19:53.600 --> 19:57.600]  But he's he really apparently pissed off the powers that be here.
[19:57.780 --> 19:58.820]  And you know what?
[19:58.820 --> 20:03.660]  This is something I think we need to follow and support this guy because there are going to be so many others just like him.
[20:03.800 --> 20:05.160]  Well, it's advertising dollars.
[20:05.480 --> 20:09.260]  And the way that it's put forth anyway.
[20:09.560 --> 20:10.660]  But how does it hurt them?
[20:10.800 --> 20:15.320]  Well, they don't see our commercials in England for used car dealers in New York.
[20:15.720 --> 20:17.120]  It doesn't hurt advertising.
[20:17.180 --> 20:22.380]  Many of the companies that do make it on air are international companies and probably wouldn't be hurt by it.
[20:22.500 --> 20:25.160]  However, the products they sell might not be the same in every country.
[20:25.580 --> 20:32.120]  Not every company that that puts out a commercial for a given show in a given region has an audience abroad.
[20:32.120 --> 20:37.600]  And they view it as every time the show is aired that they're technically paying for the show to be put on.
[20:37.820 --> 20:41.040]  This is how this is somebody who wouldn't have seen the show in the first place.
[20:41.040 --> 20:46.640]  So anything, the advertisers in the United Kingdom, their commercials aren't being seen because he's watching American television instead.
[20:46.800 --> 20:47.300]  It's ridiculous.
[20:47.560 --> 20:55.340]  I think you're making a huge mistake here, which is assuming that their reasons make sense either from a financial perspective or just in general.
[20:55.620 --> 21:01.380]  What they're doing is they're asserting control for the sake of asserting control and they can get away with it.
[21:01.820 --> 21:02.300]  All right.
[21:02.400 --> 21:08.360]  Well, Julia Eldwyer, Rich's mother, severely disappointed with the decision, says her son has been sold to the U.S.
[21:08.360 --> 21:11.460]  The extradition may disrupt his life for years.
[21:12.180 --> 21:17.940]  It's controversial because under certain circumstances, merely linking the copyright material isn't an offense in the United Kingdom.
[21:18.100 --> 21:18.380]  Get that.
[21:18.480 --> 21:20.100]  It's not even an offense in the country he lives in.
[21:20.640 --> 21:21.880]  But because the U.K.
[21:21.960 --> 21:29.380]  government has not introduced the much needed changes to the extradition law, it's just... it's insane.
[21:29.480 --> 21:31.320]  We're going to be following this, obviously, in...
[21:31.320 --> 21:45.140]  This has come up in some other cases we've talked about on this program, that there's this huge imbalance in the extradition treaty where it's much easier for people to be extradited from the United Kingdom to the United States than the other way around,
[21:45.320 --> 21:52.940]  particularly in cases like this, where the person was in the United Kingdom the whole time and did something that does not violate United Kingdom law.
[21:53.340 --> 21:58.080]  Somehow it's still possible for them to be extradited to the United States and yet not the other way around.
[21:58.260 --> 22:12.400]  And the real irony here, a couple of weeks ago, we reported on some tourists who were from the United Kingdom wanting to visit the United States who were denied entry to the United States because one of them had tweeted that he intended to dig up the grave of Marilyn Monroe and Homeland Security took that seriously.
[22:12.400 --> 22:12.500]  Obviously.
[22:13.480 --> 22:17.520]  So people who want to come here can't, but people who don't want to come here are forced to.
[22:18.220 --> 22:22.640]  Now, I can't keep all these cases straight in my head anymore very easily.
[22:22.760 --> 22:26.140]  But was this website, TVShack, a .com website?
[22:26.440 --> 22:28.480]  Oh, you're going to try to get me to admit that I went to it?
[22:28.560 --> 22:29.360]  Well, I'm not going to do that.
[22:29.380 --> 22:30.840]  I don't know anything about it.
[22:30.960 --> 22:32.880]  You know, you have the papers there, so that's why I'm asking you.
[22:32.900 --> 22:38.700]  The reason being that there's the logic of that if it's a .com.net.org, that it's being routed through U.S.
[22:38.760 --> 22:42.380]  servers and thus is, in part, a crime on you.
[22:42.380 --> 22:42.860]  I'll look it up.
[22:43.160 --> 22:43.800]  I've heard that.
[22:43.860 --> 22:50.120]  That's something that came out this week, that if it's a .com, the United States can do whatever they want to the people that registered it.
[22:50.240 --> 22:50.940]  So beware.
[22:51.280 --> 22:56.120]  The linking thing, historically, in this country has been sort of laughable.
[22:56.260 --> 23:00.720]  And I think that notwithstanding, I think is a whole other attribute to this.
[23:00.820 --> 23:06.800]  But the fact, like you mentioned, to speak to that, that people, they should be happy that more eyeballs are seeing their content.
[23:07.220 --> 23:17.520]  Perhaps, I guess we can hope, or that, you know, precedents like this will affect, some change in the way these advertising deals are brokered, because they're basically cutting themselves off to a huge market anyway.
[23:17.960 --> 23:24.920]  It seems like they're dealing with old contracts as far as advertising and stuff that don't really speak to a much broader distribution base now.
[23:25.280 --> 23:27.200]  I'm seeing tvshack.bz.
[23:27.940 --> 23:32.720]  I don't know where that is, but it's definitely not, it could be, but it's not the United States, that's for sure.
[23:33.520 --> 23:44.320]  But there is, on the flip side of this, there is a network called NRK Beta, which is a network from Norway, which puts up torrents and online videos of their own content.
[23:45.000 --> 23:55.920]  Because they released a long statement, basically being one of the entities who gets it, they basically came down to it and said, the only way to control your content anymore in today's online atmosphere is to be the best provider of it.
[23:56.040 --> 23:57.860]  If people want torrents of your stuff, give them torrents.
[23:57.960 --> 24:05.180]  If people want it on YouTube, give it to them on YouTube or give them an equivalent experience, because people are going to have that, whether it's you giving it to them or not.
[24:05.340 --> 24:12.260]  And so if it is you giving it to them, you still maintain that control and you can do what you want with the medium, because it's yours.
[24:13.280 --> 24:13.620]  Interesting.
[24:14.300 --> 24:18.520]  Okay, and we also want to talk about the story of Aaron Bond.
[24:18.640 --> 24:25.600]  This is a 14-year-old kid, who was Europe's youngest app designer, computer whiz kid.
[24:25.920 --> 24:28.340]  He was crowned the youngest app designer in Europe.
[24:28.520 --> 24:32.960]  And he's been expelled after hacking into his school's computer system.
[24:33.460 --> 24:41.420]  That's right, he used his skills to access confidential information about staff and students, even looking up the vice principal's financial information, which for some reason was on that computer.
[24:41.900 --> 24:51.520]  Using passwords, he managed to look at details about his peers, was able to edit the IT room booking system, oh, heaven forbid, and school newsletter before the security breach was spotted.
[24:51.720 --> 24:58.460]  He's now been visited by police, who took DNA samples and fingerprints before giving him a formal reprimand.
[24:58.840 --> 25:10.800]  His school, King Edward VI College in Totney, which is in Devon, which is somewhere in the UK, has permanently expelled him and maintains no students should have had access to passwords.
[25:12.160 --> 25:20.320]  But they aren't dealing with the actual issue as to why it was so easy to get in and why it was there in the first place.
[25:20.600 --> 25:23.060]  Now, he has designed six apps used on smartphones.
[25:23.060 --> 25:26.140]  He is the managing director of his own web design company.
[25:26.280 --> 25:30.960]  He was among hand-picked delegates at the Apple conference last year.
[25:31.140 --> 25:35.020]  He's already being considered for university courses because he's so advanced with computers.
[25:35.320 --> 25:38.400]  He said he was curious about whether he could hack the school's system.
[25:38.760 --> 25:44.780]  He claims he infiltrated the computers after seeing a list of passwords displayed on a whiteboard in the school's IT room.
[25:45.160 --> 25:49.060]  But the school insists no one within the school would have had access to them.
[25:49.180 --> 25:52.120]  That whiteboard apparently was not for his eyes, and they should have been restricted.
[25:52.820 --> 25:59.320]  Even after the breach was spotted and the system locked down, he was still able to get into the vice principal's financial records.
[25:59.460 --> 26:03.820]  He said, I was a bit scared and curious, and I wondered if I would be able to get in again.
[26:04.300 --> 26:06.500]  You know, what did this kid do wrong?
[26:06.780 --> 26:10.840]  Does anybody see anything bad about... basically...
[26:10.840 --> 26:12.220]  I'll tell you what he did wrong.
[26:12.300 --> 26:14.760]  He wrote the whole paragraph like a press release.
[26:14.940 --> 26:16.520]  Who told him he's the youngest?
[26:17.160 --> 26:18.000]  Well, he didn't write this.
[26:18.020 --> 26:20.520]  I'm reading a news story from the Telegraph.
[26:20.700 --> 26:23.300]  But as far as... What, do you know of an eight-year-old that is writing apps?
[26:23.300 --> 26:23.420]  There could be.
[26:23.500 --> 26:24.260]  How would we know?
[26:24.260 --> 26:27.620]  There could be, but I don't think there is because, well, I mean, the Telegraph wouldn't lie.
[26:27.900 --> 26:28.520]  Yeah, they would.
[26:29.140 --> 26:30.800]  Let's not make this about the Telegraph.
[26:30.800 --> 26:31.900]  Let's make it about the story.
[26:32.140 --> 26:33.860]  Anyway, but yeah, but the story is silly.
[26:34.600 --> 26:37.680]  It's not clear why he should be expelled for this.
[26:37.980 --> 26:41.300]  The United Kingdom knows a thing or two about who they crown and stuff like that.
[26:41.300 --> 26:44.820]  Well, maybe he'll be extradited now because maybe one of those passwords belonged to the United States.
[26:44.840 --> 26:45.500]  Who knows?
[26:45.640 --> 26:51.160]  But evidently in the United Kingdom, they haven't seen the film War Games from like 25 years ago because that's exactly how the kid in that movie did it.
[26:51.280 --> 26:51.480]  True.
[26:51.740 --> 26:52.760]  And they haven't learned.
[26:52.860 --> 26:54.800]  They haven't learned how to keep things secure.
[26:55.080 --> 26:59.780]  They should be happy that they have somebody who's there to test their security and not do something malicious.
[27:00.160 --> 27:05.780]  Because, you know, if this kid wasn't around, they'd still have the same security holes and someone malicious would come along and do the same thing.
[27:05.980 --> 27:11.140]  So... Is this black whiteboard, is it in the IT room whose booking system you changed?
[27:11.160 --> 27:13.920]  It's a whiteboard with passwords written on it so anybody could read them.
[27:14.080 --> 27:16.920]  And, you know, apparently everyone was supposed to just ignore that.
[27:17.120 --> 27:27.540]  I think that the school should open an investigation into the vice principal for storing his personal financial data on school equipment.
[27:27.900 --> 27:28.080]  Yes.
[27:28.400 --> 27:29.260]  Yeah, absolutely.
[27:29.860 --> 27:40.440]  Now, for some reason, all of our news is coming out of the UK this week, but BBC News outlet BBC Persia was reportedly hacked by Iranian authorities.
[27:40.740 --> 27:43.260]  I believe this was a couple of evenings ago.
[27:43.860 --> 27:52.380]  The news group claims that the cyber attack is part of an expanding effort by the regime to stifle coverage within the country.
[27:53.060 --> 27:58.140]  I'm not sure what news group they're referring to, but this is a story that we saw on Gizmodo, actually.
[27:58.740 --> 28:08.680]  BBC's Director General Mark Thompson reported that BBC's London office was inundated with robocalls and also that a group had attempted to jam the company's satellite feeds into Iran.
[28:09.100 --> 28:16.580]  The jamming would only affect owners of illegal satellite dishes, which, not coincidentally, are the only ones that can receive the BBC signal in the first place.
[28:17.440 --> 28:17.960]  Interesting.
[28:18.260 --> 28:22.940]  But hackers are being blamed again for this, even if it was something government sanctioned.
[28:23.000 --> 28:29.680]  Well, I find that just fascinating because if the government is actually behind, it seems very silly, almost as if they're trying to isolate themselves.
[28:29.880 --> 28:38.840]  Because if BBC Persia is operating legally, they can use whatever legal means they want to say what a news organization is allowed to broadcast in their country.
[28:38.840 --> 28:42.180]  They don't need to break into the systems.
[28:42.380 --> 28:44.180]  And it just seems strange.
[28:44.540 --> 29:01.720]  Well, according to the official statement, there was a day recently when there was a simultaneous attempt to jam two different satellite feeds of BBC Persian into Iran to disrupt the services' London phone lines by the use of multiple automatic calls and a sophisticated cyber attack on the BBC.
[29:02.060 --> 29:05.780]  It is difficult and may prove impossible to confirm the source of these attacks.
[29:06.120 --> 29:14.620]  Though attempted jamming of BBC services into Iran is nothing new and we regard the coincidence of these different attacks as self-evidently suspicious.
[29:14.960 --> 29:24.340]  Now, that actually brings up the point that I wanted to make is that if there's really no way to know for sure who did it, it does seem very strange the nature of these attacks.
[29:24.860 --> 29:38.900]  How do we know that it's really not someone else who's trying to make a... you know... this is one of the most complicated things of having this whole cyber warfare thing and big in countries involved is who's to say who's actually doing an attack?
[29:38.900 --> 29:46.480]  When one person can start an attack and make it look like, you know, thousands of computers from a different country are taking part, it's...
[29:47.040 --> 29:48.080]  It's a form of spoofing.
[29:48.140 --> 29:54.480]  There's a long history of various countries trying to jam other countries' news broadcasts...
[29:55.000 --> 29:55.440]  Exactly.
[29:55.740 --> 29:57.120]  ...mostly throughout the Cold War.
[29:57.120 --> 30:04.680]  It's decreased a bit, but I'm sure Iran has, you know, still got some of their best satellite jammers still jamming it out.
[30:04.920 --> 30:07.460]  But now they've moved online.
[30:07.460 --> 30:10.340]  It's sort of interesting, but probably not new.
[30:10.500 --> 30:10.600]  Yeah.
[30:10.960 --> 30:20.260]  But, you know, if you wanted to really cast dispersions over Iran, what better way to do it than to engineer something like this, if you want to be all conspiratorial about it?
[30:20.480 --> 30:38.820]  All I'm trying to say is that if this company... like, I'm not 100% familiar on the status of BBC Persia, but if it is, you know, operating as a legal, you know, not really ruffling anyone's feathers too much, then it just seems strange that the Persian... that the Iranian authorities,
[30:39.000 --> 30:45.240]  I'm sorry, wouldn't use more official means to control as they do with everything else.
[30:45.420 --> 30:50.740]  You know, why would they need to use subversive methods so overtly?
[30:51.000 --> 30:55.100]  Have you seen how our own government treats people doing perfectly legal things that they don't like?
[30:55.100 --> 31:01.260]  Yeah, but normally they would throw paper at them first and then, you know, force them if they don't listen.
[31:01.480 --> 31:12.040]  I mean, I don't know for sure, but I imagine that the BBC Persian Language Service is operating in accordance with British law, but perhaps not so much with Iranian law, which may be the conflict here.
[31:12.180 --> 31:25.660]  Well, if it's operating in the UK, it seems very simple to simply block web access there unless they're illegally, you know, pirate radio and other sorts of things have going on in that country, that would be a completely different issue.
[31:26.360 --> 31:35.940]  Well, we have our own way of blocking the signals from other countries, simply not carrying them on cable systems or satellite systems.
[31:36.260 --> 31:37.440]  Try watching Al Jazeera.
[31:37.520 --> 31:38.340]  It's very hard to do.
[31:38.500 --> 31:41.760]  I mean, obviously, you can do it online, but not everybody has that kind of access.
[31:41.900 --> 31:42.900]  Not everybody has that kind of bandwidth.
[31:43.720 --> 31:45.400]  Emmanuel, that's not at all the same thing.
[31:45.680 --> 31:46.020]  Oh, it's not?
[31:46.200 --> 31:46.960]  No, it's not at all.
[31:47.020 --> 31:49.360]  Well, people wind up not seeing foreign perspectives.
[31:49.360 --> 31:53.380]  I mean, look, it's a shame, but it's not at all the same thing as actively blocking it.
[31:54.120 --> 31:56.140]  Well, the result is the same, I think.
[31:56.480 --> 32:06.640]  If you convince people that they're getting all the news that's out there and they're not, I think that's a lot more effective than people knowing that the news they want to get is being blocked.
[32:06.780 --> 32:09.020]  I think they at least know that there's something else out there.
[32:09.120 --> 32:24.900]  Well, that's also, you know, culturally, if you think about it, the United States doesn't really have much experience with, say, foreign nations broadcasting pirate radio stations, ex-countries, free so-and-such-and-such radio in the United States.
[32:25.120 --> 32:25.620]  Emmanuel.
[32:25.840 --> 32:26.260]  Go ahead, Barney.
[32:26.960 --> 32:48.540]  Maybe there's a better analogy in that case that happened, I think, four or five years ago, where I think it was a gentleman from Brooklyn who was somewhere, one of the boroughs, was was making satellite television programming available to people in the U.S.
[32:48.700 --> 32:55.640]  from the programmer Al Manar, which was the TV channel, I believe, of Hezbollah.
[32:56.060 --> 32:58.000]  Hezbollah had been named by the U.S.
[32:58.020 --> 32:59.400]  as a terrorist organization.
[32:59.880 --> 33:06.360]  And simply providing the video programming from Hezbollah, Al Manar, to U.S.
[33:06.440 --> 33:17.580]  residents, this individual was charged federally with providing material support to a terrorist organization and is currently in federal prison, where he's been for several years.
[33:17.760 --> 33:17.940]  Right.
[33:18.040 --> 33:24.600]  Just by giving people access to some other perspective of the news, this guy is in prison in this country.
[33:24.760 --> 33:25.700]  So, yeah, it does happen.
[33:25.920 --> 33:26.660]  Yeah, Bernie is right.
[33:26.800 --> 33:27.260]  That's actually...
[33:27.260 --> 33:27.680]  All right.
[33:27.840 --> 33:33.520]  So, let's turn things more domestic, because we have spent an inordinate amount of time in the U.K.
[33:33.980 --> 33:33.980]  tonight.
[33:34.680 --> 33:36.140]  And then we have some other updates as well.
[33:36.240 --> 33:38.440]  We'll be taking phone calls in just a few minutes in addition.
[33:39.600 --> 33:45.880]  The Occupy Wall Street protesters are starting to be in the news again, or continuing to be in the news.
[33:46.760 --> 33:55.600]  Kira Moya Sims is someone who is standing by the Manhattan Bridge buying coffee, while three of her friends waited nearby in a car.
[33:57.840 --> 33:58.880]  That's all she does all day.
[33:58.960 --> 33:59.680]  She stands by the Manhattan Bridge.
[33:59.680 --> 34:01.500]  Are you going to argue with everything I say today?
[34:01.680 --> 34:04.160]  I'm just saying she's buying coffee by the Manhattan Bridge.
[34:04.360 --> 34:04.580]  Right now?
[34:04.580 --> 34:05.760]  We only are on for an hour.
[34:07.000 --> 34:10.280]  Yes, she was buying coffee while her friends waited nearby in a car.
[34:10.740 --> 34:14.720]  If you want to interrogate her about this, we can find her contact info.
[34:15.240 --> 34:25.160]  Anyway, more than a dozen blocks away, protesters were gathering for an Occupy Wall Street Day of Action, which organizers had described as an attempt to block the streets around the New York Stock Exchange.
[34:25.780 --> 34:30.480]  Then, Ms. Moya Sims said about 30 police officers surrounded her and the people in the car.
[34:30.700 --> 34:35.240]  All four were arrested and taken to a police facility in the East Village.
[34:35.660 --> 34:38.380]  Officers strip-searched them, ignored their request for a lawyer.
[34:38.500 --> 34:42.660]  The fourth person couldn't be reached for comment, but this is according to three of the four anyway.
[34:43.300 --> 34:54.860]  Now, Ms. Moya Sims, 20 years old, said members of the police department's intelligence division asked about her personal history, her relationship with other protesters, the nature of Occupy Wall Street, plans for upcoming protests.
[34:55.100 --> 34:57.920]  She said, I felt like I had been arrested for a thought crime.
[34:59.260 --> 35:03.800]  They're preparing to sue the city, adding that the arrest had violated their constitutional rights.
[35:04.040 --> 35:14.720]  Not only are the police disrupting people's rights to free expression, one of her lawyers says, they are taking preemptive steps by arresting people who might be just thinking about exercising their rights.
[35:15.160 --> 35:24.740]  Now, according to this story from the New York Times, Occupy Wall Street has largely faded from the headlines, but organizers are planning springtime demonstrations in an effort to revitalize their movement.
[35:25.100 --> 35:29.020]  And they're troubled by what they consider continued monitoring by the police.
[35:29.060 --> 35:32.020]  And this continues in other stories as well.
[35:32.820 --> 35:41.700]  Prosecutors have subpoenaed the Twitter records of an arrested Occupy Wall Street protester seeking his account information and tweets that he sent around the time of his arrest last fall.
[35:41.860 --> 35:46.820]  Jeff Ray, 31 years old, was arrested during a mass protest on the Brooklyn Bridge in October.
[35:47.500 --> 35:50.800]  He posted the subpoena on his Twitter account on Monday.
[35:51.120 --> 36:01.640]  The subpoena seeks all of Ray's tweets from September 15th, two days before the Occupy movement began in downtown Manhattan through October 31st, along with account and contact info.
[36:02.200 --> 36:04.200]  And the subpoena is dated March 8th.
[36:04.300 --> 36:08.720]  What I don't get is they can simply scroll down on Twitter themselves and get at least the tweets.
[36:08.720 --> 36:14.580]  And the, um, uh, the account information, you know, you don't really have to give truthful information on Twitter to start with.
[36:14.700 --> 36:16.080]  And obviously they know who he is.
[36:16.500 --> 36:18.180]  I don't understand these Twitter subpoenas.
[36:18.320 --> 36:18.960]  What is it they're after?
[36:19.120 --> 36:24.740]  You seem to assume that there's someone smart enough at the attorney's office to, uh, scroll down on Twitter.
[36:25.000 --> 36:27.700]  And I assume they are somewhat smart, Mike.
[36:27.780 --> 36:28.100]  I do.
[36:28.280 --> 36:30.080]  I just, I'm trying to figure out how they're thinking.
[36:30.220 --> 36:31.220]  What is it they're actually doing?
[36:31.300 --> 36:32.880]  Is this a chilling effect?
[36:33.020 --> 36:35.780]  Is this something that they, they, they just want to intimidate everybody?
[36:36.280 --> 36:37.900]  So part of it's probably intimidation.
[36:38.020 --> 36:46.740]  Part of it is that if you want to use this stuff in court, then it helps to, uh, say we got this officially from Twitter itself rather than just, Hey, we were looking on the internet and look what we found.
[36:47.360 --> 36:50.560]  But, uh, largely it's, they don't know what they're doing.
[36:50.740 --> 36:57.220]  They don't know how to, uh, how to combat, uh, activism on the internet, which they very much want to do.
[36:57.400 --> 37:03.900]  And so they try silly things like subpoenaing Twitter because they, Twitter has an office that's in San Francisco and you can send it letters.
[37:04.180 --> 37:09.420]  Or maybe Twitter is just one of the many organizations they're subpoena, subpoenaing.
[37:09.900 --> 37:11.860]  Uh, and this is the only one we found out about.
[37:11.940 --> 37:19.160]  And actually they're doing a very good job of getting every single computer system this guy attaches to and finding out a lot more about him.
[37:19.440 --> 37:28.080]  And, uh, it really, it really goes to show their understanding of the internet in general, the fact that they're arresting people and then interrogating them, asking them about what, what is Occupy Wall Street planning?
[37:28.260 --> 37:34.480]  Because, you know, if they knew about this internet thing that was out there, they would know that that's where everything that Occupy Wall Street is doing is constantly announced.
[37:34.720 --> 37:36.800]  You know, they're, they're not really doing things behind any closed doors.
[37:36.940 --> 37:44.480]  I don't think considering that one in four, one in five people is a narc to start with somebody who will, uh, testify against his friends.
[37:44.680 --> 37:46.300]  Uh, we talked about this last week.
[37:46.400 --> 37:49.000]  We talked about this many, many times at the whole conference.
[37:49.460 --> 37:57.120]  Uh, well, considering that it shouldn't be too hard for them to find somebody that will help them a lot more than they apparently are trying to do this themselves.
[37:57.660 --> 37:58.620]  Uh, so I don't know.
[37:58.780 --> 38:01.880]  Um, it's, it's, it's, it's fun to watch to see what it is they're up to next.
[38:02.080 --> 38:03.080]  And we have to remain vigilant.
[38:03.460 --> 38:08.880]  One thing we can learn from all this, it's, it's got their attention and they're really kind of afraid as of what's going to happen next.
[38:09.000 --> 38:18.860]  And you have to ask yourself why, why something that's healthy, expressing yourself in the streets, demonstrating, uh, being somewhat, uh, raucous and, and just, uh, getting word out about different opinions.
[38:19.140 --> 38:22.100]  Why is that such a threat in, in supposedly an open society?
[38:22.300 --> 38:29.860]  Well, if this, uh, somewhat arbitrary number of, uh, about a quarter of everyone is a narc that, uh, that's been getting thrown around lately is true.
[38:30.860 --> 38:31.900]  Well, potential, potential.
[38:32.360 --> 38:34.200]  Well, you know, we haven't seen any citation.
[38:34.200 --> 38:36.840]  This is just some number that, you know, some point in the past we started throwing around.
[38:36.840 --> 38:40.340]  But anyway, let's, let's, let's just stick with a quarter.
[38:40.500 --> 38:43.480]  Let's say that actually that's how many people are really narcing just anywhere you look.
[38:43.760 --> 38:57.120]  Uh, well, uh, you know, as we spoke about last week, this is the process by which, uh, they turn people into narcs, you know, just because, you know, you say, well, they, they have all these people that are, um, you know, ratting at everyone else.
[38:57.220 --> 38:57.960]  Why do they need to do this?
[38:58.060 --> 38:59.340]  Well, this is how it's done.
[38:59.500 --> 39:02.580]  You know, the stuff is out in the open, but they don't necessarily understand it.
[39:02.640 --> 39:04.000]  You know, it's very easy to find this information.
[39:04.140 --> 39:08.780]  You know where to look, but if they don't know, they find other people that will talk to them and they do it with intimidation.
[39:08.920 --> 39:09.860]  Right, right, right.
[39:10.160 --> 39:21.340]  It's, it's like what we were speaking to last week with the, uh, The searches at the stations, it's like police phishing, in this case, phishing for people who potentially could be involved and then turned in the future.
[39:22.000 --> 39:32.860]  And the funny thing is, if they pulled me, like me, for example, out of Zuccotti Park, arrested me and demanded to know everything I know about Occupy Wall Street, all they would have to be doing is following the same Twitter accounts I follow, and they would know all I know,
[39:32.900 --> 39:33.320]  pretty much.
[39:33.580 --> 39:36.240]  Yeah, it's more fun to follow people, I guess.
[39:36.240 --> 39:38.560]  All right, some updates.
[39:39.260 --> 39:47.580]  As we've mentioned in the past, we just were referring to the HOPE Conference, the last HOPE Conference, which was actually the next HOPE, took place in 2010.
[39:47.920 --> 39:49.760]  Well, the next one, HOPE No.
[39:49.860 --> 39:55.840]  9, takes place July 13, 14, and 15, 2012, Hotel Pennsylvania in New York City.
[39:56.080 --> 39:58.160]  And a lot has been going on.
[39:58.360 --> 40:03.460]  We've been busy at work, behind the scenes, getting everything lined up.
[40:03.460 --> 40:07.780]  We're doing site inspections and talking to all kinds of new people.
[40:08.580 --> 40:09.760]  It's really growing.
[40:09.920 --> 40:12.520]  It's something that is really fun to watch.
[40:12.620 --> 40:18.680]  Our ninth conference, the amount of changes that have been undertaken over the years is simply phenomenal.
[40:18.860 --> 40:32.860]  And I know, Carl, you've been heavily involved in talking to people about, specifically, network gear, some of the advancements we might be making this year, and things we've learned from the Europeans and from other conferences as well.
[40:33.760 --> 40:37.200]  What are some of the things that we might be able to look forward to?
[40:37.620 --> 40:37.780]  Yeah.
[40:38.160 --> 40:46.080]  I guess in the spirit of what we've done as far as putting things together, we've sort of built component pieces of whatever we had around us.
[40:46.200 --> 41:01.540]  And this year, based on some of that inspiration from seeing other events, seeing it work really well, and a lot of really interesting technology being used by hackers, by people that understand the technology, we're sort of opening it up, which is sort of new territory in general.
[41:01.540 --> 41:11.780]  But we basically wanted to invite people that actually make some of this equipment to contribute in a technical way to the network that we're building.
[41:12.020 --> 41:24.400]  And so I've reached out and helped the network team communicate with some of the organizations that build sort of the latest technology out there to run this demonstration ISP.
[41:24.400 --> 41:32.620]  And we're talking to a lot of different organizations to try to build those component pieces into a really amazing internal network.
[41:32.800 --> 41:35.240]  And definitely, we've had amazing stuff in the past.
[41:35.240 --> 41:44.540]  We basically are building upon that and bringing in the actual manufacturers' gear so they can demonstrate and we can show what we can really create.
[41:44.540 --> 41:50.040]  You were telling me before, just some, I guess, statistics or speeds.
[41:50.420 --> 41:52.140]  It was just going way over my head.
[41:52.240 --> 42:03.400]  But give me a sense as to what it's been in the past, what it is over in Europe, what we can possibly look forward to, what we can dream about, as far as just what a network can be.
[42:03.660 --> 42:07.600]  Yeah, the technology actually moves very, very quickly, as I'm sure people imagine.
[42:07.900 --> 42:11.960]  In the past, we've had like 10 100 speeds, which are typical.
[42:12.120 --> 42:13.800]  I mean, that's been around for quite a while.
[42:13.800 --> 42:15.640]  What does that mean to somebody just listening at home?
[42:15.740 --> 42:26.440]  Like, yeah, 10 megabits and 100 megabits, depending on what the speeds of are, the base of the network interface cards and the switches involved.
[42:26.660 --> 42:28.780]  And 10 100 has been around for quite some time now.
[42:28.900 --> 42:32.080]  It's a pretty standard Ethernet standard.
[42:33.760 --> 42:39.340]  And basically, with some of the gear that we've had in the past, that's been the top end of our network speed.
[42:39.360 --> 42:45.280]  And one thing I saw that was just sort of common in a lot of the other events around the world was gigabit speed.
[42:45.480 --> 42:51.940]  So I want to make gigabit speed sort of our baseline, our slowest speed.
[42:52.120 --> 43:01.140]  And then for some of the other parts of the internal network, I'd like to see some of the other standards being incorporated in the backbone and other things like that.
[43:01.140 --> 43:08.720]  No, we've been to Germany, we've been to the chaos, Congress and the camp and various other events over there.
[43:09.240 --> 43:17.960]  And that rather, they like to show off the speed that they have, they say things like, use more bandwidth, you're not using enough bandwidth.
[43:18.360 --> 43:25.180]  We have more bandwidth going into this building than the entire continent of Africa, which, you know, I think is kind of nasty, but it's true.
[43:25.180 --> 43:34.240]  And it's something that I think we here in New York City, it should be something that's a no brainer, but it is more of a challenge than people might think.
[43:34.340 --> 43:37.080]  What are some of the challenges that are being faced?
[43:37.260 --> 43:38.180]  You're absolutely right.
[43:38.400 --> 43:41.480]  I wouldn't say they're cavalier about it, but they're definitely, you know...
[43:41.480 --> 43:43.080]  They like to rub it in our faces, I think.
[43:43.380 --> 43:45.260]  And that honestly made me redouble.
[43:45.360 --> 43:48.080]  And that's exactly why I'm so excited about what we're putting together.
[43:48.380 --> 43:55.580]  And as we build it out, more people are getting excited and wanting to contribute and share ideas on how to design it and stuff like that.
[43:55.840 --> 44:04.360]  Because I realized that, you know, these amazing networks they're building are using equipment that's designed, manufactured and sold here in the US.
[44:04.360 --> 44:06.280]  Basically, a lot of these companies are headquartered here.
[44:06.460 --> 44:08.080]  A lot of innovation takes place here.
[44:08.180 --> 44:09.360]  And I just knew it.
[44:09.460 --> 44:14.980]  I knew if we put the right momentum behind it, we could absolutely do it.
[44:15.020 --> 44:17.000]  I was sure at that point.
[44:17.140 --> 44:22.060]  And so that's not to say I'm, you know, so glowingly enthusiastic that there haven't been challenges.
[44:22.300 --> 44:39.360]  But I definitely wanted to help keep the momentum going such that the integral pieces were there and that we can experiment and design things that are maybe a little bit beyond what we need in sort of the same spirit as what we see overseas.
[44:39.660 --> 44:45.960]  Considering that so many of our attendees are designing these bits of equipment, inventing things.
[44:46.100 --> 44:55.160]  We have such incredible people, some of them 14, some of them younger than that, that are geniuses or just really enthusiastic, open to learning.
[44:55.940 --> 44:59.920]  And yeah, you know, we have a lot of people that know this stuff.
[45:00.300 --> 45:06.980]  And basically, it's a very, it's not hard to say, okay, you know, we know this.
[45:07.280 --> 45:08.260]  Let's apply it.
[45:08.340 --> 45:10.460]  Let's apply it to something other than the business environment.
[45:10.580 --> 45:15.800]  Let's apply it to something, as you say, a demonstration ISP, a hacker conference that takes place over a weekend.
[45:15.940 --> 45:17.060]  Let's see what we can do.
[45:17.220 --> 45:23.360]  And I think with that attitude, which it's more prone to what they do over in Holland and Germany, let's unite.
[45:23.580 --> 45:27.100]  Let's work together and see just how far we can push this.
[45:27.180 --> 45:32.000]  Let's be ridiculous about it and see just how quickly we can overcome the challenges.
[45:32.160 --> 45:33.700]  And isn't that what a hacker conference is all about?
[45:33.960 --> 45:34.260]  Absolutely.
[45:34.400 --> 45:35.700]  And that's the way I've been characterizing it.
[45:35.800 --> 45:37.860]  And I may not know everything about it.
[45:37.920 --> 45:38.280]  I'm learning.
[45:38.620 --> 45:44.160]  I've had a bit of a crash course with some of the state of the art as I've been going and talking and trying to help out with it.
[45:44.740 --> 45:54.980]  But I think that inspiration, what I was seeing and, you know, being able to travel, some of the very conferences I went to were things I heard about from Off the Hook and from your travels abroad.
[45:55.360 --> 45:59.720]  And seeing that, you know, I'm not in that industry per se.
[45:59.760 --> 46:07.000]  I don't design these sorts of things, but I understand them enough to be able to say, hey, we could do this and sort of wrangle all the pieces were there.
[46:07.000 --> 46:09.680]  I wanted to help really get people motivated around it.
[46:09.740 --> 46:20.860]  And I felt that the one thing we should really evolve and build upon at Hope is a very, very strong network because clearly we're going to have several thousand people there that understand the technology.
[46:21.380 --> 46:31.080]  I believe at the Congress in the winter, they calculated that there were 3.5 or two and a half devices per every person.
[46:31.080 --> 46:32.940]  That's unique Mac addresses.
[46:33.180 --> 46:38.160]  So people have phones, laptops, you know, you name it, they're bringing them all to the event.
[46:38.400 --> 46:40.940]  So there's many devices connecting.
[46:41.140 --> 46:57.860]  And so we want to evolve our network and have really, really awesome stuff and encourage people to bring awesome stuff, bring projects, bring servers, bring all kinds of creative commons stuff, stuff you want to share, art, maybe, you know, a new movie that you're trying to distribute.
[46:58.080 --> 47:07.100]  These are fantastic ways to do it when you have a very, very strong and experimental sort of demonstration network to tap into when you come to the conference.
[47:07.300 --> 47:10.520]  And the reaction we've gotten so far has been really, really strong and enthusiastic.
[47:10.780 --> 47:12.760]  And I'm looking forward to this.
[47:13.060 --> 47:13.980]  We're going to make history.
[47:14.560 --> 47:19.600]  And if people want to get involved, either as a volunteer, email volunteers at hope.net.
[47:20.060 --> 47:22.580]  If you have a project, projects at hope.net.
[47:22.720 --> 47:28.080]  And of course, if you just want more information or want to register for the conference, www.hope.net has all the information.
[47:28.220 --> 47:30.600]  Again, it's July 13th through 15th of this year.
[47:30.740 --> 47:31.880]  And speakers at hope.
[47:31.880 --> 47:32.460]  Of course.
[47:32.560 --> 47:32.680]  Yeah.
[47:33.000 --> 47:34.260]  I shouldn't forget that, Bernie.
[47:34.360 --> 47:34.520]  You're right.
[47:34.640 --> 47:38.320]  Speakers, we are still open to people who want to submit talk ideas.
[47:38.520 --> 47:40.260]  We've had a really good response so far.
[47:40.340 --> 47:44.260]  A lot of very amazing speakers have submitted ideas.
[47:44.420 --> 47:46.820]  We've accepted a few of them so far, but we have a lot more to go through.
[47:47.240 --> 47:49.600]  But the submission process is still open.
[47:49.700 --> 47:52.700]  So if you have an idea for a talk, speakers at hope.net.
[47:52.860 --> 48:00.960]  Then go to the website to see some pointers as to what it is we're looking for how best to shape your submission.
[48:01.180 --> 48:03.400]  Well, that's actually a very good point to make.
[48:03.480 --> 48:09.980]  But as far as the network goes, I just think it's really important to point out how much of a feat this really is.
[48:10.260 --> 48:15.520]  Many people, even technical, don't realize just how much is actually involved in making this happen.
[48:15.560 --> 48:18.100]  We literally are building an ISP for the weekend.
[48:18.260 --> 48:20.740]  All the routers, wires, everything's all being brought in.
[48:20.960 --> 48:23.560]  We're not even using any of the building's infrastructure at all.
[48:24.420 --> 48:26.200]  Microwaving the connection.
[48:26.600 --> 48:29.040]  And a lot of times we have to run stuff throughout the whole building.
[48:29.820 --> 48:35.360]  It's literally almost everything that's being used to create that network is being brought in.
[48:35.580 --> 48:38.060]  So it's not there before and it's not there afterwards.
[48:38.300 --> 48:39.220]  Absolutely right, Dot Red.
[48:39.380 --> 48:49.040]  And to speak to that, I mean, it's as much as we're trying to be a little bit more coordinated with manufacturers and getting technical sponsorships, it's still going to be a bit of a rodeo.
[48:49.220 --> 48:57.260]  And we certainly, once we get the internal stuff down, we're certainly open to other experimental ideas and ways to sort of diversify it.
[48:57.360 --> 49:09.060]  And I guess if anyone listening, if you perhaps are working for one of these entities that you think, you know, you have the right gear for a particular attribute, we really want the people that make this stuff to shine.
[49:09.300 --> 49:13.020]  So what, you know, it's not going to be some sort of banner project.
[49:13.020 --> 49:27.640]  We want their gear used in just the right place so that we can sort of demonstrate the state of the art and show that people that are enthusiasts and that aren't officially involved can still wrangle and coordinate the gear in an amazing way.
[49:27.780 --> 49:29.300]  We've really gone through this hour.
[49:29.460 --> 49:33.440]  I do want to give listeners a chance to call in because we do want to hear from you, obviously.
[49:33.620 --> 49:36.560]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[49:36.760 --> 49:39.060]  In the minutes that we have left, please give us a call.
[49:39.180 --> 49:43.760]  Any opinions, thoughts, concerns, that kind of thing, the phone lines are open.
[49:43.840 --> 49:45.880]  212-209-2900.
[49:45.980 --> 49:46.100]  Rob?
[49:46.100 --> 49:52.520]  And I also want to tell anyone who's interested or who has ideas to share about things that we could do at Hope, check out talk.hope.net.
[49:52.700 --> 49:57.440]  That's our forum and a lot of the planning is going on there, and there are some really good ideas being passed around.
[49:57.580 --> 49:59.300]  So to be part of that, join our forum.
[49:59.400 --> 50:03.200]  It's incredible because if you have an idea, we're going to listen to it.
[50:03.340 --> 50:05.960]  And there aren't many conferences you can say that about.
[50:06.220 --> 50:13.280]  There certainly aren't many radio shows you can say that about, but we're open and this is how we meet amazing people from around the entire planet.
[50:13.540 --> 50:15.180]  So let's meet some of them now.
[50:15.420 --> 50:16.860]  212-209-2900.
[50:16.980 --> 50:17.280]  Good evening.
[50:17.460 --> 50:18.280]  You're on Off the Hook.
[50:18.700 --> 50:18.920]  Hello.
[50:19.220 --> 50:19.380]  Hi.
[50:19.460 --> 50:19.880]  What's on your mind?
[50:20.100 --> 50:20.420]  Yes.
[50:21.200 --> 50:21.800]  Tom from the Bronx.
[50:21.800 --> 50:22.320]  Tom from the Bronx.
[50:22.460 --> 50:22.580]  Yes.
[50:22.720 --> 50:23.640]  We know your voice well.
[50:23.720 --> 50:24.160]  What's on your mind?
[50:24.220 --> 50:24.340]  Yeah.
[50:24.520 --> 50:32.500]  I'd like to say that your program tonight is very eye-opening, and I've come to the conclusion, where there is Twitter, there's a way.
[50:32.980 --> 50:33.920]  Oh, I like that.
[50:34.180 --> 50:34.800]  That's good.
[50:35.060 --> 50:36.060]  Where there's Twitter, there's a way.
[50:36.160 --> 50:36.680]  Write that down.
[50:37.180 --> 50:37.900]  Thanks for that.
[50:38.920 --> 50:39.280]  Yes?
[50:39.740 --> 50:40.840]  Where isn't there Twitter?
[50:41.840 --> 50:42.880]  That's another good question.
[50:43.040 --> 50:43.960]  I mean, besides China.
[50:44.380 --> 50:44.680]  Good evening.
[50:44.800 --> 50:45.360]  You're on Off the Hook.
[50:46.280 --> 50:47.000]  Yeah, good evening.
[50:47.060 --> 50:49.180]  I wanted to ask you a question about the Occupy Movement.
[50:49.740 --> 51:07.400]  I live in New York City, and what do you think it would take for the Occupy Movement to become so solidified and so mobilized and unified that it would actually come up with candidates and a voting block party the way the Tea Party was formed?
[51:07.620 --> 51:22.760]  And the reason why I ask is because I think the overall riding umbrella is something under the Occupy Movement, it's something that people feel in common, even though the Occupy Movement is somewhat different to different people, but the overall big ideas are the same to everyone who is supporting it.
[51:23.080 --> 51:30.780]  So, what do you think it would take for the movement to come up with candidates and form a serious party like the Tea Party?
[51:31.020 --> 51:37.220]  Yeah, I was actually at Zuccotti during one brainstorming session where the people down there were discussing this very thing.
[51:37.320 --> 51:44.440]  And I think the general feeling is that because if you ask 10 people who are protesting at Occupy Wall Street why they're there, you'll get 10 different answers.
[51:44.800 --> 51:54.460]  And trying to attach the whole movement to sort of the political career of one individual is probably not the way to go to keep with anything that makes Occupy what it is.
[51:54.720 --> 51:55.120]  Right, right.
[51:55.200 --> 51:56.200]  Rob makes a very good point.
[51:56.360 --> 52:02.080]  I think that if any of us actually had the answer to that question, then there actually maybe would all be a solution of some sort.
[52:02.400 --> 52:08.540]  However, one of the ways that the Tea Party did is by piggybacking off another party in the first place.
[52:08.680 --> 52:14.080]  They felt they agreed enough with Republicans to use their party as a, you know, basically as a leech to...
[52:14.080 --> 52:14.540]  Yeah.
[52:14.660 --> 52:23.300]  And the big comparison that I've always heard between Occupy and the Tea Party is that the Tea Party, the news kept talking about it until people showed up and Occupy people kept showing up until the news had to talk about it.
[52:23.340 --> 52:24.040]  That's really good.
[52:24.220 --> 52:24.800]  That's really good.
[52:24.860 --> 52:27.360]  So what we have to do is get the Pirate Party out here then, right?
[52:27.740 --> 52:27.920]  Mm-hmm.
[52:28.080 --> 52:28.660]  Yes, absolutely.
[52:28.780 --> 52:42.520]  I think though that a lot of people in Occupy Wall Street, and it's certainly a movement that does not speak with one voice, don't feel that running candidates is the way to affect change in this country or in any part of the world.
[52:44.140 --> 52:50.040]  I don't know that a Occupy Wall Street candidate is a thing that could even exist.
[52:50.620 --> 52:51.120]  Maybe not.
[52:51.200 --> 52:52.560]  Maybe it would have to be something else.
[52:52.720 --> 52:55.560]  But certainly being out there, being vocal, makes a difference.
[52:55.560 --> 52:58.500]  Otherwise, the authorities wouldn't be so concerned and worried about it.
[52:59.320 --> 52:59.660]  Let's...
[52:59.660 --> 53:00.220]  Oh, no.
[53:00.280 --> 53:01.060]  We lost all our phone calls.
[53:01.140 --> 53:01.620]  How'd that happen?
[53:01.700 --> 53:03.240]  212-209-2900.
[53:03.440 --> 53:03.760]  Look at that.
[53:03.780 --> 53:04.100]  There we go.
[53:04.440 --> 53:04.920]  I'm sorry.
[53:05.060 --> 53:05.400]  Good evening.
[53:05.480 --> 53:06.180]  You're on Off The Hook.
[53:07.140 --> 53:07.480]  Hi.
[53:14.080 --> 53:14.420]  Thanks, speakers.
[53:14.680 --> 53:17.300]  I hope, because one of my friends can be sending...
[53:17.880 --> 53:24.600]  We'd like to bring maybe a Veronica, the newest Veronica, and show it off and do another Pirate Radio 101.
[53:25.240 --> 53:25.780]  And...
[53:25.780 --> 53:26.720]  What is a Veronica?
[53:27.580 --> 53:34.560]  A Veronica is a high-quality, hand-built, English FM transmitter, in our case, ultra-portable.
[53:34.560 --> 53:34.980]  Okay.
[53:35.220 --> 53:36.740]  And with significant power.
[53:36.920 --> 53:38.480]  You've seen one before on H2K.
[53:38.860 --> 53:40.420]  We'd like to bring the latest one.
[53:40.540 --> 53:45.120]  But I was also wondering, just real quick, is it possible to do more than one speech?
[53:46.240 --> 53:47.440]  By speech, you mean...
[53:47.440 --> 53:49.120]  Well, first of all, it's not the United Nations.
[53:49.420 --> 53:54.340]  Basically, we have talks and panels and discussions and all kinds of fun things like that.
[53:54.920 --> 54:00.400]  But, of course, if you have ideas for more than one talk, we're open to all of them.
[54:00.400 --> 54:02.840]  We treat each one as an individual idea.
[54:03.160 --> 54:04.380]  Just don't wear yourself out.
[54:05.320 --> 54:06.900]  Manuel, make sure you catch it.
[54:07.020 --> 54:07.760]  We're going to send you...
[54:07.760 --> 54:12.320]  A friend of mine is going to send you an email with our proposal this week to Speakers at Hope.
[54:12.580 --> 54:12.900]  Okay.
[54:12.900 --> 54:15.400]  You're looking for Pirate Radio 101 and maybe something else.
[54:15.500 --> 54:15.780]  Bye-bye.
[54:15.960 --> 54:16.200]  Okay.
[54:16.320 --> 54:18.400]  Thanks for your call and thanks for the enthusiasm.
[54:18.720 --> 54:19.680]  Speakers at Hope.net.
[54:19.740 --> 54:21.460]  That's the address if you have something to submit.
[54:21.680 --> 54:24.460]  And we'll read your proposal even if you don't call us in advance.
[54:24.800 --> 54:25.360]  Yeah, we will.
[54:25.460 --> 54:26.120]  We read everything.
[54:26.320 --> 54:27.080]  All the proposals.
[54:27.280 --> 54:27.360]  Yes.
[54:27.360 --> 54:30.040]  Even the terrible ones, of which we get relatively few, but...
[54:30.040 --> 54:31.440]  I've been really amazed this year.
[54:31.560 --> 54:32.140]  They have been...
[54:32.140 --> 54:34.320]  There were some really good ones, some really...
[54:34.880 --> 54:38.200]  People that are very notable in the field, but also people who are new.
[54:38.440 --> 54:39.160]  And if you're...
[54:39.160 --> 54:42.680]  If you've never spoken before, we're going to listen to you the same as everybody else.
[54:43.080 --> 54:46.560]  And we're willing to give you a shot before an audience.
[54:46.720 --> 54:47.200]  Think about that.
[54:47.300 --> 54:49.600]  New York City, hundreds of people.
[54:49.820 --> 54:51.900]  And yeah, you can be scared about doing that too.
[54:52.460 --> 54:55.560]  But I think we've all been on stage at some point.
[54:55.740 --> 54:56.740]  And it's kind of scary, right?
[54:56.800 --> 54:59.620]  Anybody want to share what it was like the first time you ever spoke before a crowd?
[55:00.060 --> 55:03.820]  Well, speaking in public is always a scary thing, especially if you've never done it.
[55:04.000 --> 55:08.800]  Especially if there's, you know, you have the filming equipment such where you actually have a hard time seeing the crowd.
[55:08.900 --> 55:11.100]  But it's also a very fun thing to do.
[55:11.120 --> 55:13.100]  And it's also good to give back to the community.
[55:13.100 --> 55:18.200]  And that's how society moves is everyone builds off of the achievements of others.
[55:18.780 --> 55:21.080]  It's truly terrifying though.
[55:21.360 --> 55:23.140]  I've had some interesting experience.
[55:23.280 --> 55:25.000]  I was up speaking once.
[55:25.080 --> 55:26.860]  But you also get amazed at the response you get.
[55:27.020 --> 55:28.640]  It's not the response you'd imagine.
[55:28.780 --> 55:31.440]  And you don't get to say things quite...
[55:31.440 --> 55:33.180]  You know, it doesn't come out exactly how you plan it.
[55:33.280 --> 55:33.740]  It never does.
[55:33.880 --> 55:37.560]  But it's amazing the response and how people are receptive to it.
[55:37.660 --> 55:38.940]  And they're interested in what you have to say.
[55:39.060 --> 55:39.720]  It's like being on the radio.
[55:39.720 --> 55:43.120]  But you'd be surprised how comfortable you'll get in front of an audience.
[55:43.380 --> 55:44.800]  And you'll have things to say.
[55:45.000 --> 55:46.580]  Really amazing things to say and share.
[55:46.720 --> 55:48.200]  And you become part of the family that way.
[55:48.360 --> 55:53.580]  And a really important point is that when you're a hacker and speaking in front of people is scary to you.
[55:53.740 --> 55:55.540]  Remember, you're speaking in front of other hackers.
[55:55.720 --> 55:56.780]  You're speaking in front of our community.
[55:56.780 --> 55:59.080]  People who get these things that you're talking about.
[55:59.260 --> 56:01.340]  And you'll be making friends for life at the same time.
[56:01.420 --> 56:01.500]  Exactly.
[56:01.500 --> 56:02.640]  Let's try and squeeze in one more phone call.
[56:03.020 --> 56:03.500]  Good evening.
[56:03.640 --> 56:04.640]  You're on Off The Hook.
[56:05.100 --> 56:05.360]  Hello.
[56:05.560 --> 56:05.780]  Hi.
[56:05.820 --> 56:06.280]  What's on your mind?
[56:06.280 --> 56:06.700]  Hi.
[56:06.980 --> 56:13.640]  I think there was an earlier instance of people who would dare to take on the powers of a huge corporation like McDonald's.
[56:13.680 --> 56:21.560]  If you recall, about 10 years ago, Oprah Winfrey was given a civil summons with huge stakes attached to it.
[56:21.600 --> 56:23.000]  Oprah Winfrey took on McDonald's?
[56:23.040 --> 56:23.500]  Is that what you're saying?
[56:23.660 --> 56:23.880]  Yeah.
[56:24.040 --> 56:25.340]  They actually took on her.
[56:25.560 --> 56:27.540]  She made some remark about, well, perhaps...
[56:27.540 --> 56:28.820]  They're equally powerful, I guess.
[56:29.060 --> 56:29.280]  Yeah.
[56:29.360 --> 56:30.040]  She went over there.
[56:30.140 --> 56:34.660]  It was a civil action, but there were many dollars at stake and she wasn't the only defendant in this suit.
[56:34.660 --> 56:40.840]  I don't know if it was the McDonald's or like the Beef Producers Association, but I do remember this case, yeah.
[56:41.260 --> 56:41.420]  Yeah.
[56:41.680 --> 56:43.000]  So it shows...
[56:43.000 --> 56:45.940]  McDonald's, I think, was one of the principal buyers.
[56:45.960 --> 56:48.440]  And I know they had a lot riding on it.
[56:48.600 --> 56:51.560]  And so it shows what they will take on somebody like that.
[56:51.660 --> 56:54.540]  They have thin skin or much at stake or both.
[56:55.840 --> 56:56.280]  Okay.
[56:56.420 --> 56:56.680]  Okay.
[56:57.020 --> 56:57.460]  Thanks.
[56:57.520 --> 56:58.240]  Thanks for that.
[56:58.340 --> 57:00.280]  And I guess that's as good a note as any to end upon.
[57:00.580 --> 57:09.900]  But just to read it, what we've been saying over the last hour or so, the HOPE conference is coming along July 13th through 15th of this year.
[57:10.040 --> 57:12.720]  You can register at www.hope.net.
[57:12.860 --> 57:20.460]  You can submit speaker proposals and volunteer to help and come forward with ideas for technology and all kinds of things like that.
[57:20.460 --> 57:23.520]  And if you're planning on coming to HOPE, please tell a friend.
[57:23.840 --> 57:25.980]  This is going to be an event not to miss.
[57:26.080 --> 57:28.320]  So you'll want your whole community there.
[57:29.940 --> 57:30.740]  Occupy McDonaldland.
[57:30.900 --> 57:31.580]  That's all I want to say.
[57:31.600 --> 57:32.040]  All right.
[57:32.600 --> 57:32.920]  Thanks.
[57:33.480 --> 57:37.040]  Our address here at the radio show, OTH at 2600.com.
[57:37.640 --> 57:38.860]  We're out for this week.
[57:38.960 --> 57:40.120]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[57:40.760 --> 57:41.820]  And we'll see you next week.
[57:41.880 --> 57:42.060]  Good night.
[01:00:16.150 --> 01:00:16.550]  Woo!
[01:00:17.210 --> 01:00:17.610]  Yeah!
[01:00:18.330 --> 01:00:19.530]  Oh man, I like that.
[01:00:19.630 --> 01:00:20.390]  I really like that.
[01:00:20.470 --> 01:00:22.250]  They told me it was Trash 80.
[01:00:22.450 --> 01:00:23.690]  That's who's doing this song.
[01:00:23.870 --> 01:00:26.950]  It's 8 o'clock, WBAI, New York, 99.5 FM.