[00:00.000 --> 00:00.580]  7 p.m.
[00:00.820 --> 00:03.180]  at Alwan for the Arts, 16 Beaver Street.
[00:03.360 --> 00:09.440]  I do believe that there is still and has always been a lot of goodwill for BAI in the city of New York.
[00:09.600 --> 00:13.300]  Come join us for a discussion about programming and your other concerns.
[00:13.480 --> 00:18.000]  And I think it's my job, and in fact all of our jobs, to get that goodwill back.
[00:20.660 --> 00:26.360]  And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York, where the time is exactly 7.01.
[00:26.900 --> 00:28.260]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:33.740 --> 00:37.920]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:38.980 --> 00:43.420]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:44.160 --> 00:51.690]  We couldn't get much worse, would Bum Diddly Bum, but the best is paid for worse.
[00:52.360 --> 00:55.280]  I hope that's understood, Bum Diddly Bum.
[02:08.920 --> 02:11.220]  And a very good evening to hear about the program is Off the Hook.
[02:11.300 --> 02:13.880]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:14.160 --> 02:16.620]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:16.800 --> 02:16.980]  Hello.
[02:16.980 --> 02:17.660]  Rob T.
[02:17.860 --> 02:18.300]  Firefly.
[02:18.440 --> 02:18.820]  Good evening.
[02:18.920 --> 02:19.140]  Kyle.
[02:19.360 --> 02:19.620]  Kyle.
[02:19.860 --> 02:20.680]  Come back to the microphone.
[02:21.000 --> 02:21.220]  Hi.
[02:21.380 --> 02:21.700]  How you doing?
[02:22.360 --> 02:23.620]  We have Jim.
[02:24.140 --> 02:24.320]  Hello.
[02:24.940 --> 02:26.520]  Down in Philadelphia, we've got Bernie S.
[02:28.000 --> 02:28.440]  Bernie.
[02:28.900 --> 02:29.140]  Hello.
[02:29.380 --> 02:30.320]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:30.500 --> 02:30.820]  How you doing?
[02:31.280 --> 02:31.680]  Okay.
[02:31.960 --> 02:32.240]  Right here.
[02:32.240 --> 02:33.320]  Frazzled as everyone else is.
[02:33.320 --> 02:33.620]  Yeah.
[02:33.760 --> 02:34.900]  Oh, you would not believe it.
[02:34.960 --> 02:36.520]  You would certainly not believe what's going on around here.
[02:36.800 --> 02:41.440]  And we have all kinds of special guests, as is our tradition on the show before Hope.
[02:41.440 --> 02:42.920]  I see, not Kevin.
[02:43.080 --> 02:43.460]  How are you?
[02:43.620 --> 02:43.860]  Hello.
[02:44.420 --> 02:45.540]  I see Mitch Altman.
[02:45.820 --> 02:46.240]  Hi.
[02:46.660 --> 02:48.200]  I see Cheshire Catalyst.
[02:48.440 --> 02:48.740]  Hi there.
[02:49.700 --> 02:50.980]  Anyone else care to say?
[02:51.080 --> 02:52.740]  There's other people here too, but I think they're in the background.
[02:52.920 --> 03:01.320]  But we have all kinds of other people tuning in, I know, because this is the pre-Hope show, two days before the conference begins, Hope number nine.
[03:01.820 --> 03:07.660]  And we've been spending the day moving things around, delivering and picking up and all sorts of things like that.
[03:16.780 --> 03:17.260]  Okay.
[03:18.000 --> 03:21.120]  Well, that was Bernie for you there.
[03:21.700 --> 03:22.180]  Yeah.
[03:24.700 --> 03:32.720]  Basically, it's been really something else as far as just organizing and things like that.
[03:33.320 --> 03:35.220]  Mike, anything you'd like to update us on?
[03:35.920 --> 03:37.180]  There's just so much going on.
[03:37.180 --> 03:48.820]  It's the time of the planning when there's just all these details and we can't see the forest for the trees at this point almost, but I'm really excited for this weekend.
[03:49.060 --> 03:49.500]  Uh-huh.
[03:49.600 --> 03:49.860]  Me too.
[03:49.940 --> 03:50.200]  Me too.
[03:52.540 --> 03:54.020]  We've got a full...
[03:54.020 --> 03:54.580]  I'm sorry.
[03:55.240 --> 03:58.180]  I just got here two minutes before the show, or less actually.
[03:59.480 --> 04:01.880]  And we've been battling all kinds of deadlines and things like that.
[04:01.920 --> 04:02.660]  But I think it's working out.
[04:02.720 --> 04:03.600]  I think it's working out really well.
[04:03.600 --> 04:08.980]  This is our biggest conference so far.
[04:09.720 --> 04:11.740]  We have more people pre-registered than ever before.
[04:13.980 --> 04:18.580]  And more speakers and more messages I keep getting every minute from people.
[04:18.700 --> 04:23.980]  So I was assuming it was one of our unusual guests who didn't know to turn their phone off before the show, but it was your phone.
[04:24.020 --> 04:24.280]  Yeah.
[04:24.300 --> 04:29.760]  You see, when it comes down to the pre-help show, I have to keep my phone on because I just get so many messages.
[04:31.460 --> 04:33.100]  And that's just the way it is.
[04:33.100 --> 04:37.280]  And to make everything even more fun and thrilling tonight, it's a fundraiser as well.
[04:37.360 --> 04:38.700]  So, oh boy.
[04:38.860 --> 04:39.320]  We just...
[04:39.320 --> 04:40.780]  I don't know how we're going to get through all this.
[04:40.880 --> 04:41.520]  But we have an hour.
[04:41.620 --> 04:42.660]  We have to raise some money.
[04:42.700 --> 04:45.940]  But we also have to let people know what's going on with the conference.
[04:46.060 --> 04:48.200]  Carl, how about you describe some of the things we've been up to today?
[04:48.240 --> 04:50.080]  Because I'm so frazzled right now.
[04:51.100 --> 04:51.420]  Yeah.
[04:51.420 --> 04:54.800]  We palletized all of our stuff and loaded it onto a big truck.
[04:54.840 --> 04:56.140]  And we help facilitate that.
[04:56.500 --> 05:03.760]  There's a lot of soda and a lot of 2600 stuff, Hope stuff, that we keep at our warehouse.
[05:04.240 --> 05:13.840]  And so just like logistics, getting the trucks, you know, you have to pick up these enormous and figure out how to drive these enormous sort of vehicles.
[05:14.780 --> 05:25.680]  We've been picking up various printed items, stuff that we're going to have, you know, attendees expect to have, like a program, various sorts of identification.
[05:26.260 --> 05:35.120]  And just all the details, the things that make Hope really special and things that people have been working on for quite a while now behind the scenes.
[05:35.120 --> 05:37.840]  And you've done this before, right?
[05:38.120 --> 05:39.700]  Yeah, it's actually kind of helpful.
[05:39.920 --> 05:45.040]  I participated a lot, helping you coordinate and do stuff with the next Hope.
[05:45.200 --> 05:49.800]  So this time, I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of how things go.
[05:50.580 --> 05:54.620]  So I'm pretty much vigilant and ready for anything.
[05:54.840 --> 05:56.280]  And I'm really excited for it.
[05:56.360 --> 05:58.480]  There's all kinds of cool stuff, projects.
[05:58.760 --> 06:02.680]  And just like the theme alone is pretty exciting.
[06:02.680 --> 06:05.900]  I think people are going to get a real kick out of it when they see it.
[06:06.020 --> 06:07.560]  Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
[06:07.700 --> 06:09.340]  A lot of work has gone into this.
[06:09.420 --> 06:10.680]  We've been organizing it for quite some time.
[06:12.160 --> 06:13.960]  And yeah, it's going to be a blast.
[06:14.060 --> 06:16.940]  And if you doubt any of that, just take a look at our speaker list.
[06:17.100 --> 06:18.100]  That is something else.
[06:18.300 --> 06:24.560]  We have so many people coming to give talks of such a wide variety, wide nature.
[06:24.600 --> 06:29.320]  In fact, we'll be getting to that in a little bit as well, some of the highlights.
[06:30.280 --> 06:33.620]  But let me ask some of the people who have stopped in as special guests.
[06:33.720 --> 06:36.960]  Mitch, I know you've been traveling all over the place, as always.
[06:37.520 --> 06:38.860]  What are your thoughts on all this?
[06:39.480 --> 06:41.520]  Oh, I'm way looking forward to this.
[06:41.620 --> 06:43.020]  I think it's going to be the best hope ever.
[06:43.980 --> 06:47.080]  I've been trying to do way too much in too short a time as usual.
[06:47.240 --> 06:49.780]  And I think succeeding this time.
[06:49.780 --> 06:52.000]  So, we'll see.
[06:52.100 --> 06:52.800]  I was just...
[06:52.800 --> 06:59.520]  I have a suitcase full of stuff that I have here for some interesting audio things during Hope.
[06:59.900 --> 07:06.360]  And also some good presentations that fit in with the theme, as well as the audio that fits in with the theme.
[07:06.700 --> 07:08.440]  And all my workshop stuff.
[07:08.960 --> 07:15.580]  This is what stopped six for me on my Hackers on a Train tour as I'm traveling around the U.S.
[07:15.580 --> 07:16.700]  You just also...
[07:16.700 --> 07:19.760]  Now, Kyle did this a couple of months ago, but you traveled cross-country by train.
[07:19.860 --> 07:20.720]  Is that correct?
[07:20.980 --> 07:24.140]  Yeah, I have a 45-day Amtrak USA Rail Pass.
[07:24.500 --> 07:25.460]  How's that working out for you?
[07:25.640 --> 07:26.340]  I love it.
[07:26.480 --> 07:26.800]  Yeah.
[07:27.040 --> 07:27.200]  Yeah.
[07:27.280 --> 07:31.660]  It got to Chicago two hours late, but I got to New York right on time.
[07:32.180 --> 07:32.540]  Wow.
[07:32.780 --> 07:36.280]  And that basically allows you to go anywhere in the country?
[07:36.560 --> 07:41.840]  Yeah, anywhere in the country, you can make 18 stops for $830, as it turns out.
[07:41.980 --> 07:43.380]  And it's great.
[07:43.480 --> 07:44.680]  No one on the train is in a hurry.
[07:44.680 --> 07:49.100]  And so they're really wonderful to talk to, and you meet a lot of really interesting people.
[07:49.380 --> 07:52.320]  I met some people from the Justice Department under the Kennedys.
[07:52.540 --> 07:53.620]  Why are they on a train?
[07:54.600 --> 07:57.800]  They were on a train because they weren't in a hurry to get to where they were going.
[07:58.060 --> 08:00.880]  Is it that they're not in a hurry to get where they're going, or they just have nowhere to go?
[08:01.420 --> 08:04.780]  No, they were visiting, I think, their grandkids or something like that.
[08:05.020 --> 08:07.840]  They were old hippies, and they had some good stories about J.
[08:08.000 --> 08:09.960]  Edgar and his proclivities.
[08:10.400 --> 08:10.940]  Oh, cool.
[08:11.180 --> 08:11.380]  Okay.
[08:11.760 --> 08:12.620]  Now, Kevin, what have you been up to?
[08:13.540 --> 08:16.660]  Well, I've been helping set up our hackerspace up in Vermont.
[08:16.860 --> 08:17.220]  Uh-huh.
[08:17.760 --> 08:18.500]  Vermont, up north.
[08:18.600 --> 08:19.320]  Up north, yeah.
[08:19.560 --> 08:20.960]  A state that no one really knows about.
[08:21.220 --> 08:23.560]  Well, we know some things about it, but they're probably all wrong.
[08:23.620 --> 08:23.760]  North, yeah.
[08:23.820 --> 08:23.920]  Yeah.
[08:24.380 --> 08:24.720]  All right.
[08:24.800 --> 08:25.300]  Well, that's cool.
[08:25.420 --> 08:25.760]  That's cool.
[08:25.880 --> 08:27.180]  And tell us something about the hackerspace.
[08:27.180 --> 08:28.920]  Well, we started in 2010.
[08:29.260 --> 08:33.420]  We just moved into a location that's more centrally located in downtown Burlington, Vermont.
[08:33.700 --> 08:35.220]  We became a non-profit.
[08:35.420 --> 08:39.460]  At least in the state of Vermont, we're working towards our way to become a real, federally recognized non-profit.
[08:39.520 --> 08:52.940]  But we just held our first workshop, which was a soldering workshop hosted by a guy from SparkFun, where we taught a bunch of high school and college professors and teachers how to solder so they can bring that kind of education into their own classrooms and platforms.
[08:53.540 --> 08:54.400]  Very cool stuff.
[08:54.720 --> 08:59.620]  So we're slowly moving into the future, becoming a very integral part of our community.
[09:00.160 --> 09:00.380]  Mm-hmm.
[09:00.540 --> 09:01.080]  Okay, cool.
[09:01.240 --> 09:01.580]  Very good.
[09:01.700 --> 09:03.800]  And you're looking forward to Hope, I take it?
[09:03.840 --> 09:05.360]  Oh, I'm absolutely excited about Hope.
[09:05.440 --> 09:08.540]  This is one of the first times I think I've been a little bit hands-off on the planning.
[09:08.720 --> 09:13.560]  So I've been kind of in the background, butting my nails, watching this all happen, but I have no idea what to expect.
[09:13.700 --> 09:16.440]  As soon as I saw that speaker list posted, I was absolutely floored.
[09:16.640 --> 09:17.500]  I mean, floored.
[09:17.500 --> 09:19.020]  This is going to be one of the most incredible hopes.
[09:19.100 --> 09:20.000]  I know nothing about it.
[09:20.420 --> 09:20.620]  Yeah.
[09:21.540 --> 09:28.420]  The talks that we weren't able to accommodate would make a good conference if we just had those.
[09:28.740 --> 09:35.300]  That's how good our talk submissions have been, that we had to pick the ones that were better than the good ones.
[09:35.560 --> 09:36.060]  You know?
[09:36.220 --> 09:42.820]  So if you got rejected or didn't get accepted, don't feel bad, because you probably would have been accepted anywhere else, and we just had so many good talks.
[09:43.140 --> 09:47.000]  You know, we need to have Hope be five days or six days.
[09:47.000 --> 09:48.660]  You know, we really drive ourselves crazy.
[09:49.400 --> 09:55.980]  Well, there's just so much material, and we've had people coming from all over the world to present topics of various sorts.
[09:56.380 --> 09:59.600]  You can see the full list at www.hope.net.
[09:59.920 --> 10:01.160]  It's H-O-P-E.net.
[10:01.200 --> 10:06.860]  Or you can just come to the conference starting on Friday at the Hotel Pennsylvania in New York City, going until Sunday.
[10:06.920 --> 10:07.800]  In fact, you can show up...
[10:07.800 --> 10:19.640]  If you pre-registered, you can show up tomorrow night from 5, I believe, until 9 p.m., or is it 4 to 8 p.m., one of those hours, and just come to the Penn Pavilion on the first floor and pick up your ticket there.
[10:20.020 --> 10:20.940]  Cheshire Catalyst is here.
[10:21.520 --> 10:21.960]  Yeah, hi.
[10:22.080 --> 10:22.600]  Glad to be here.
[10:22.680 --> 10:23.260]  Where did you come from?
[10:23.760 --> 10:24.120]  Florida.
[10:24.340 --> 10:25.260]  That's where I'm living these days.
[10:25.400 --> 10:25.760]  All right.
[10:26.560 --> 10:29.640]  And tell us something about what you've been up to since the last...
[10:29.640 --> 10:31.420]  Well, the next Hope in 2010.
[10:32.020 --> 10:32.660]  Well, let's see.
[10:32.740 --> 10:38.280]  I've started a little business called phonefriendly.com, where I write webpages meant to be read on mobile phone web browsers.
[10:38.720 --> 10:50.680]  As a result of that, you'll find hope9.mobi, M-O-B-I, the .mobi top-level domain being for those pages meant to be read on mobile phones, and I put the entire schedule there to be phone-friendly.
[10:50.880 --> 10:53.640]  Now, what happens if you go to that site without a mobile phone?
[10:53.880 --> 10:54.700]  What do you get then?
[10:54.780 --> 11:03.300]  Well, it'll look a little strange, but you can change the size of your web browser so that it'll all fit in there and you can move around.
[11:03.480 --> 11:11.660]  But the thing is, if you have a mobile phone with a dial pad on it, you can just press the buttons, 1, 2, 3, for Friday, Saturday, or Sunday's schedule, and it'll jump right there.
[11:12.080 --> 11:14.220]  Then I have a list of the times at the top of the page.
[11:14.240 --> 11:19.120]  As you maneuver with your five-way navigator, you just go to the time you're looking for, press that.
[11:19.260 --> 11:22.320]  It jumps you to that time on the schedule, showing you what's on them.
[11:22.860 --> 11:26.620]  Then if you really want to know more about it, you can click on the particular event.
[11:26.620 --> 11:32.400]  It'll take you to that hour's little web page that will let you read up on what the talks are about.
[11:34.420 --> 11:34.780]  Cool.
[11:35.060 --> 11:35.340]  All right.
[11:35.500 --> 11:37.960]  Well, and have you been to Every Hope since the beginning?
[11:38.460 --> 11:39.580]  I'm afraid I have.
[11:39.800 --> 11:40.800]  I'm guilty as charged.
[11:40.980 --> 11:41.300]  All right.
[11:41.460 --> 11:42.760]  I came in.
[11:42.820 --> 11:44.060]  There was a big problem with registration.
[11:44.400 --> 11:47.060]  I stepped in, started helping out, because that's what I do at Science Fiction Convention.
[11:47.120 --> 11:48.160]  The first one, you mean?
[11:48.280 --> 11:48.980]  The very first one.
[11:48.980 --> 11:51.680]  Yeah, that was the one where we thought that we could print out everybody's picture.
[11:52.920 --> 11:54.000]  Yeah, Jim, you were there, too.
[11:54.520 --> 12:00.840]  It was 1994, and we thought that we'd be able to have enough time to do that, and it took about a minute to print one picture.
[12:01.280 --> 12:06.060]  And then we had like 1,000 people up there at the hotel, the biggest hacker conference in the States at that point.
[12:07.200 --> 12:13.100]  And yeah, we quickly switched to something really low-tech, like an orange piece of paper or something, and that proved that you got in.
[12:13.340 --> 12:15.440]  It's a bit more advanced now.
[12:15.640 --> 12:16.160]  It is.
[12:16.300 --> 12:20.960]  But at that point, I became a friend of the firm, and I've been attending Hope's ever since, helping out.
[12:21.540 --> 12:22.220]  Okay, cool.
[12:24.000 --> 12:25.960]  I believe you've been to every conference, too.
[12:26.080 --> 12:26.400]  Is that right?
[12:26.560 --> 12:26.960]  I have.
[12:27.060 --> 12:28.020]  I have not missed one.
[12:28.480 --> 12:34.800]  I mean, my federal prison stint almost caused me to miss one, but I managed to squeak that in between hopes.
[12:36.980 --> 12:37.440]  Uh-huh.
[12:38.600 --> 12:56.580]  And, uh, I gotta say, this one looks like it's more, it's got some more, not that any of them was, uh, in lacking in content, but I've gotta say, this hope, hope number nine, is looking like there's more content and just more exciting stuff going on than I can recall.
[12:56.800 --> 12:58.200]  Why do you think that is?
[12:58.360 --> 13:01.200]  Why is there more content, more interesting stuff than, than before?
[13:01.200 --> 13:10.080]  I don't know, maybe it's, maybe just the buzz is building over the years, maybe we're just getting better at doing this, um, I don't know, but, um...
[13:10.080 --> 13:12.820]  Well, I think the hacker world has really, uh, matured quite a bit.
[13:12.820 --> 13:26.140]  I mean, you know, when we first started, it was two days, one track, uh, a handful of talks, and, uh, you know, hacking was kind of, um, uh, something that you didn't really, uh, talk about in public very much, and now it's very much in the mainstream,
[13:26.360 --> 13:38.240]  so much so that it's kind of hard to, to find the real hackers, because everybody wants to be a hacker these days, uh, but, um, the other result of that is that so many other parts of society have kind of, uh, melded into the hacker world as well.
[13:38.300 --> 13:52.120]  You've got activism, you've got politics of various sorts, uh, you've got science and, and sociology, and all kinds of different, uh, fields, fascinated with hacking, uh, journalists, of course, uh, very interested in what hackers are all about, uh, want to have those,
[13:52.120 --> 13:58.000]  uh, capabilities themselves, uh, the ability to question everything that you see and, and try different experiments and things like that.
[13:58.400 --> 14:11.280]  Uh, and I think all that's reflected in, in what we're presenting this weekend, uh, just people from all different, uh, walks of life and backgrounds sharing what they know, what they have, and, um, and, and that's, that's what a hacker conference is today.
[14:11.440 --> 14:12.780]  That's a true hacker conference.
[14:12.940 --> 14:20.580]  You see a lot of, uh, security conferences, you see a lot of, uh, um, corporate things out there these days, and it's, it's different.
[14:20.980 --> 14:31.500]  Hope is, um, I like to think hope is very similar to what we see over in, in Holland and Germany, um, and, um, you just get a wide variety of, uh, of, of backgrounds and, and perspectives.
[14:31.660 --> 14:33.040]  Mitch, you're nodding, so I guess you agree with that.
[14:33.340 --> 14:34.740]  Oh, very much so, yeah.
[14:35.020 --> 14:49.490]  The, the whole hacker world has been totally taking off since, uh, really 2007 when the hackerspace movement started, uh, when there were only less than 50 hackerspaces, and now there's, like, a thousand listed on hackerspaces.org, and, uh, you know, I,
[14:49.630 --> 14:55.230]  there's no way you can visit all of them, because by the time you do so, uh, there'll be so many more to visit.
[14:55.770 --> 15:03.590]  And, uh, all of them are unique, and there's just, like you were saying, just diverse people doing all sorts of amazingly cool things that they share and learn from one another.
[15:04.150 --> 15:04.930]  Okay, cool.
[15:05.510 --> 15:07.070]  Uh, so that's, uh, that's what we're doing.
[15:07.210 --> 15:19.170]  We're, uh, we're coordinating, starting, well, we've been doing it for a while, but, uh, it really starts now, where we actually start, uh, setting things up in the hotel and, uh, doing AV and stage equipment and various things like that.
[15:19.670 --> 15:22.490]  So none of us are gonna get any sleep now until probably next Tuesday.
[15:22.810 --> 15:26.230]  So it's gonna be, and of course, next, next week's show is, is the aftermath.
[15:26.230 --> 15:27.970]  So we're gonna be wrecks then.
[15:28.350 --> 15:28.870]  And guess what?
[15:28.910 --> 15:29.910]  We have to raise money then, too.
[15:30.030 --> 15:32.170]  So it's really, that just never ends.
[15:32.450 --> 15:33.150]  Um, all right.
[15:33.190 --> 15:34.770]  So here's what we, what we have tonight.
[15:34.870 --> 15:39.730]  And, uh, I hope that we get people calling in so that we don't spend a whole lot of time on it, because we have so much else to talk about.
[15:40.070 --> 15:50.150]  Uh, but, uh, we basically, uh, are, are, uh, focusing on hope, on Hackers on Planet Earth conferences, of which there have been eight so far, uh, this, uh, up until now.
[15:50.390 --> 16:00.150]  Uh, and what we are offering, uh, a very special price to people that, uh, uh, support the radio station, because that's what it's all about, is, is keeping the radio station on the air, because this is our voice.
[16:00.290 --> 16:02.910]  This allows us to reach people all over the world.
[16:03.110 --> 16:08.710]  In fact, uh, I'd say a lot of people who come to the HOPE conferences would never have heard of it, were it not for this radio station.
[16:08.910 --> 16:16.930]  And, uh, so many other things that happened throughout the years would never have been known to, uh, to so many people without, uh, a voice that goes over, uh, radio waves.
[16:17.090 --> 16:23.930]  So, uh, for, uh, a $75 pledge to 212-209-2950, uh, you'll get the best of HOPE.
[16:24.030 --> 16:29.110]  You'll get 20 DVDs, uh, 20 DVDs, the, the, the, some of the best talks of the HOPE conferences.
[16:29.390 --> 16:36.910]  Uh, for a pledge of 125, you'll get 40 DVDs, which is also the best of, but just a little bit more of the best of.
[16:37.130 --> 16:38.770]  Uh, and that's, uh, that's not bad.
[16:38.910 --> 16:39.990]  40 DVDs.
[16:40.130 --> 16:44.190]  Uh, and, you know, if you, if you allow me to dig a little bit, I'll be able to find a listing of what those DVDs are.
[16:44.290 --> 16:47.430]  And I can tell you, uh, because, uh, I'm still unpacking here.
[16:47.630 --> 16:51.890]  Uh, but basically, uh, it's, um, it's something that we don't offer very often.
[16:52.190 --> 16:55.730]  In fact, last time we did this, I believe we had quite a few phone calls coming in.
[16:56.210 --> 17:07.470]  Uh, so I'd like to see that happen again so we don't have to spend the entire hour begging for money, which always kind of, uh, is a drag, especially when we have so many people here from out of town that we want to, uh, uh, to trade stories with.
[17:07.730 --> 17:11.770]  212-209-2950, uh, is our phone number.
[17:12.030 --> 17:12.810]  And, uh, oh, here we go.
[17:13.250 --> 17:19.130]  Um, this is what you would get, uh, as far as the, the greatest hits, Hope's greatest hits is what we're calling it.
[17:19.530 --> 17:23.570]  Uh, you get, uh, Richard Stallman speaking at Hope number six back in 2006.
[17:23.570 --> 17:26.990]  You get the social engineering talk back then in 2006.
[17:27.250 --> 17:41.030]  That was when we, um, uh, well, one of, one of, uh, our social engineering panels where we make phone calls and try to get people to tell us things that, uh, they should not tell us, but do anyway because they believe we're authority figures.
[17:41.190 --> 17:44.250]  Uh, you get Joe Biafra, also from, uh, Hope number six.
[17:44.450 --> 17:46.230]  Uh, he was, uh, delivering the keynote back then.
[17:46.410 --> 17:51.130]  Uh, Robert Steele, um, CIA analyst or, uh, secret spy.
[17:51.330 --> 17:53.390]  You decide what, what exactly, uh, his background is.
[17:53.890 --> 17:56.530]  Uh, you have, uh, graffiti research labs.
[17:56.670 --> 18:02.370]  You have, uh, um, postal hacking, Kevin Mitnick, uh, Steve Rombaugh.
[18:02.650 --> 18:09.630]  Uh, you've got, uh, the famous informants panel, uh, featuring Adrian Lamo and, uh, fiber optic, Kevin Mitnick, myself, Bernie S.
[18:09.870 --> 18:13.170]  Uh, you've got the WikiLeaks keynote from 2010.
[18:13.850 --> 18:15.970]  Um, Dan Kaminsky giving a talk.
[18:16.130 --> 18:19.590]  You've got, uh, Grand Theft Laszlo, um, vintage computing.
[18:19.830 --> 18:21.230]  That's all for a pledge of $75.
[18:21.770 --> 18:23.630]  Every one of those is, uh, is a, is a DVD.
[18:23.890 --> 18:25.910]  So I just assumed you had moved on to the higher ledge.
[18:25.910 --> 18:27.390]  No, no, no, no, no, no.
[18:27.450 --> 18:28.830]  Because those are, those are 20.
[18:29.270 --> 18:32.230]  Uh, there are a few more in there too, but, uh, you know, we only have an hour.
[18:32.410 --> 18:44.770]  Uh, if you want, uh, the, the 40 though, in addition to all that for a pledge of 125 to 212-209-2950, uh, you get, uh, we get a famous off the hook show that we did back in 2006.
[18:44.770 --> 18:46.570]  I believe this is the indecent off the hook.
[18:46.830 --> 18:56.350]  This is the one that we can't air because, well, it's indecent, but, uh, but I thought it was a pretty decent show and, uh, well, it was, it was good.
[18:56.630 --> 19:01.090]  Uh, and, and, but you'll never know if you listen to the radio because the FCC has something to say about that.
[19:01.310 --> 19:07.010]  So, so, uh, for a pledge of 125, not only will you hear that special off the hook program, but you will see us too.
[19:07.190 --> 19:09.490]  So that's, uh, that's worth the price of admission alone.
[19:09.930 --> 19:20.930]  Uh, you get the, uh, Adam Savage talk from the last hope in 2008 and, uh, Adam Savage of, of Mythbusters, uh, gave one of our talks then, and it was really awesome and incredible.
[19:21.270 --> 19:23.070]  Uh, you get another Jell-O-B offer talk.
[19:23.230 --> 19:31.090]  You get Steve Levy, author of Hackers, uh, the book, not the movie, talking about, uh, uh, various, uh, history in the hacker world.
[19:31.330 --> 19:42.370]  Uh, you get lock picking, you get, um, uh, a talk on hacker spaces, biochemistry, even get a talk on North Korea, uh, along with, um, um, various other things.
[19:42.490 --> 19:44.970]  Kyle, I believe your telephone pioneers talk is in there as well.
[19:45.410 --> 19:52.310]  Um, as, as well as, uh, a talk on Lisp and the chip scene and there's just so many things here.
[19:52.730 --> 19:55.390]  So two, one, two, two, zero, nine, two, nine, five, zero.
[19:55.590 --> 20:05.870]  We have two levels, $75 and 125, 20 DVDs or 40 DVDs of hope's greatest hits throughout the years from 1994 to 2010.
[20:06.730 --> 20:08.230]  You won't find better than that.
[20:08.330 --> 20:13.210]  And if you're not making it to the hope conference in two days, this will be consolation.
[20:13.350 --> 20:18.610]  At least you'll be able to experience some of what we've been doing over the past 20 or so years.
[20:18.850 --> 20:32.310]  I mean, even if you are coming, there's just no way that you'll be able to see all the talks and there's certainly no way you'll be able to get a time machine and go back and see this, uh, this sort of historical overview of what has been and what, uh,
[20:32.610 --> 20:34.070]  will be the future of hope.
[20:34.810 --> 20:35.310]  Mm-hmm.
[20:35.410 --> 20:35.670]  Absolutely.
[20:35.770 --> 20:36.150]  Go ahead, Barney.
[20:36.890 --> 20:54.810]  I was gonna say, do you have a, uh, a guesstimate as to how many hand-picked interesting talks, which is pretty much every hope talk since 1994, there have been, it's gotta be at least 500 hours.
[20:55.190 --> 21:01.030]  And this, these, this premium we're offering tonight is like the creme de la creme of those.
[21:01.150 --> 21:05.130]  Well, I don't want to say it's any better, uh, than, uh, than all the other talks.
[21:05.270 --> 21:18.810]  I mean, uh, some people really like talks that not many people go to, but these are the ones that we find people are the most interested in, uh, the ones people order DVDs of the most, uh, and, uh, that's why we're including them as hope's greatest hits.
[21:19.290 --> 21:29.490]  Uh, but, um, yeah, I'd say, you know, if, if, uh, figure this conference coming up, we're doing about, uh, I think 101 talks and the, the conference before this was around that area.
[21:29.490 --> 21:32.930]  Let's say for the last few, at least it's been around a hundred.
[21:33.450 --> 21:35.850]  I'd say we're well over 500 talks total.
[21:36.250 --> 21:42.490]  Uh, so yeah, this, uh, you're getting, uh, 40 of, of the top, the most popular ones.
[21:42.650 --> 21:44.650]  That's, um, that's, that's not a bad deal.
[21:44.890 --> 21:47.270]  20 for 75, 40 for 125.
[21:48.050 --> 21:50.210]  But we need to see that phone start ringing and so forth.
[21:50.390 --> 21:50.670]  It's not.
[21:50.910 --> 21:52.770]  212-209-2950.
[21:52.950 --> 21:54.510]  I know it's the middle of the summer.
[21:54.650 --> 21:58.650]  I know, uh, it's only a couple of months since the spring fundraiser, but you know what?
[21:58.850 --> 22:01.030]  Legally that was in the spring and this is now the summer.
[22:01.210 --> 22:07.670]  So, uh, it's not like we're, uh, we're doing it, uh, more than once in the season, uh, as far as, uh, fundraisers themselves.
[22:07.950 --> 22:10.190]  Is this, is this officially the dog days of summer?
[22:10.190 --> 22:10.830]  It really is.
[22:10.930 --> 22:11.550]  It feels that way.
[22:11.710 --> 22:12.070]  It does.
[22:12.690 --> 22:15.530]  Um, regardless, please call 212-209-2950.
[22:16.030 --> 22:16.170]  Yeah.
[22:16.290 --> 22:23.570]  Now, you know, I'm watching the, the, the phones here, but all of a sudden this thing popped up saying the new version of, of ice, IO bid malware fighter is available now.
[22:23.770 --> 22:24.050]  It's free.
[22:24.230 --> 22:24.910]  Should I download it?
[22:25.190 --> 22:26.470]  No, no, you should not.
[22:26.590 --> 22:28.870]  Well, it just popped up right now in front of the phone thing.
[22:28.990 --> 22:31.030]  So it's either okay or cancel.
[22:31.290 --> 22:31.950]  I hit cancel.
[22:32.850 --> 22:34.450]  Cancel isn't really no though, is it?
[22:34.570 --> 22:39.990]  I'm just gonna stare at that box over there that used to, uh, show us who was calling and, and there's no one calling on that box.
[22:40.030 --> 22:42.310]  I hope not because that's the, the past.
[22:42.490 --> 22:43.210]  They can't recall that.
[22:43.450 --> 22:50.230]  So you should, so we should get so many calls that it overwhelms the computer with malware and all and start showing up on the other box.
[22:50.370 --> 22:53.370]  212-209-2950.
[22:53.750 --> 22:56.590]  So do I hit cancel or do I hit the little, little X?
[22:56.910 --> 22:56.990]  Alt F4.
[22:57.110 --> 22:57.770]  Alt F4?
[22:57.990 --> 22:58.150]  Really?
[22:58.290 --> 22:58.930]  Is that what I should hit?
[22:59.570 --> 23:01.730]  Alt F4.
[23:02.230 --> 23:03.250]  All right.
[23:03.350 --> 23:04.330]  I have a t-shirt F4 button.
[23:04.670 --> 23:07.090]  I don't see an F4 button on that keyboard.
[23:07.250 --> 23:07.950]  There's no F4.
[23:08.110 --> 23:11.250]  There's just weird squiggles and... Have you tried turning it off and on again?
[23:13.730 --> 23:14.870]  I'm just gonna hit cancel.
[23:15.670 --> 23:16.490]  I'm gonna cancel.
[23:16.770 --> 23:17.130]  There.
[23:17.350 --> 23:17.650]  Cancel.
[23:17.770 --> 23:19.930]  But, you know... Is anyone calling as a result of all this?
[23:19.930 --> 23:21.670]  No one's calling and I don't know if it's, if it's because of that.
[23:21.750 --> 23:24.950]  So people, please pledge, don't just ring the phone to make it ring.
[23:25.170 --> 23:31.230]  Uh, call 212-209-2950 and pledge something to make our numbers go up because that's what it's all about.
[23:31.450 --> 23:36.710]  Uh, without this radio station, we lose something incredible as far as, uh, uh, reaching the world.
[23:36.710 --> 23:38.290]  And so many people listen to the show.
[23:38.430 --> 23:39.790]  It's, it's, it's unbelievable.
[23:40.010 --> 23:42.850]  We've all been listeners at one point or another.
[23:43.130 --> 23:44.130]  Even me, I was a listener.
[23:44.230 --> 23:46.770]  That's how I became involved in WBAI because I listened to it first.
[23:47.410 --> 23:56.450]  So, you know, imagine not having that, uh, that service be available to people where they can turn on the radio, hear something, become interested, become involved.
[23:56.670 --> 23:57.950]  Uh, that could be you.
[23:58.090 --> 23:59.450]  You could be doing that next.
[23:59.450 --> 24:01.090]  Uh, please pick up the phone.
[24:01.210 --> 24:02.670]  212-209-2950.
[24:02.850 --> 24:03.650]  Yes, Bernie, go ahead, please.
[24:04.370 --> 24:16.230]  I just wanted to tell our listeners out there that, um, the HOPE project, Hackers on Planet Earth, which really you, you can see that you're seeing some, uh, some amazing, uh, hacker conferences, uh, in Europe.
[24:16.870 --> 24:41.150]  Um, this is a really interesting educational project since 1994, where some of the best and brightest minds in the world are solicited or who come to us to, in an effort to convey some really interesting findings, ideas, projects that they've worked on or been involved with,
[24:41.530 --> 24:47.750]  uh, bring them to, to an audience that would be really interested in, in this kind of material.
[24:47.750 --> 24:55.810]  And it, it, it, it really crosses so many parts of the spectrum of, of people's lives.
[24:56.050 --> 24:58.110]  This isn't just a, this isn't a tech conference.
[24:58.430 --> 25:18.890]  This is a conference about how technology, computer, telecommunications technology, privacy, law, rights, copyright stuff, uh, electronics, uh, radio communications, uh, how all this stuff intersects our lives and how we can make the best use of these technologies and avoid being run over by them as well.
[25:19.410 --> 25:25.670]  And so, over the past, what, 18 years, we've, we've compiled all this amazing content.
[25:26.010 --> 25:30.230]  This is like the hacker library of Alexandria.
[25:31.310 --> 25:31.870]  Wow.
[25:31.870 --> 25:33.290]  We're compiling here.
[25:33.490 --> 25:36.970]  And it's just, I just think it's an amazing body of knowledge.
[25:37.210 --> 25:40.190]  And I feel really honored to be part of this project.
[25:40.190 --> 25:48.010]  It's an ongoing project, but I encourage our listeners to support this because without them, this kind of stuff really wouldn't be as possible.
[25:48.210 --> 26:01.790]  So please, if you're listening to this and are interested in really learning a lot of really interesting stuff, more interesting than you probably even know, unless you've been to a conference before, call 212-209-2950, pledge whatever you can to WVAI,
[26:01.830 --> 26:03.970]  which is a worthy project in and of itself.
[26:04.270 --> 26:20.230]  Now, I want to thank the one caller who, uh, is on the line right now, but I also encourage, uh, people out there who might have been moved maybe to tears by what Bernie has just said to also call 212-209-2950 because, uh, what he says is, is the truth.
[26:20.370 --> 26:20.630]  Absolutely.
[26:20.950 --> 26:26.490]  And, uh, Bernie also has a history of bringing in some phone calls by his eloquent way of, uh, of, of phrasing things.
[26:26.530 --> 26:39.390]  I think he got it right on, on, on the nose there, uh, as far as, uh, what, uh, what this bit of knowledge, what this history is that we've preserved, what it's all about and, uh, what better way to experience that over the years, over the last 18 or so years,
[26:39.530 --> 26:42.750]  uh, to see what the hacker world has evolved into.
[26:43.030 --> 26:48.150]  Uh, you get 20 DVDs, the, the Hope's greatest hits, uh, for a pledge of $75.
[26:48.150 --> 26:55.330]  You get 40 DVDs of various talks throughout, uh, the Hope history, uh, for a pledge of 125.
[26:55.790 --> 26:58.530]  212-209-2950.
[26:59.010 --> 27:00.690]  Can we get a second call coming?
[27:00.770 --> 27:01.990]  Yes, we do have a second call coming in.
[27:02.070 --> 27:02.170]  Good.
[27:02.330 --> 27:02.530]  Okay.
[27:02.770 --> 27:04.910]  So, uh, Kyle, you're not gonna get a third call coming in.
[27:04.970 --> 27:05.190]  Is that right?
[27:05.390 --> 27:08.950]  Please, please call 212-209-2950 and make a pledge.
[27:09.150 --> 27:11.530]  Uh, I did want to, uh, add something to what Bernie said.
[27:11.690 --> 27:14.130]  Uh, we truly have been, uh, archiving this stuff.
[27:14.290 --> 27:17.070]  I had the pleasure of, uh, actually creating some of these DVDs.
[27:17.430 --> 27:19.990]  And, you know, projects, we, we get really busy.
[27:20.110 --> 27:21.250]  There's, there's only so many people.
[27:21.350 --> 27:29.670]  I mean, uh, this was the kind of thing where some of these talks were actually on tape and, and, uh, we, we had to go through, we had to, uh, re-digitize some of the tape.
[27:29.810 --> 27:33.410]  We had to repair some of the tape and find camcorders that would play certain channels.
[27:33.490 --> 27:41.970]  We had to hold a seance at one point to raise it from the dead because these things, you'd be amazed how quickly things deteriorate, you know, and people forget.
[27:42.430 --> 27:44.650]  Try finding the history for other conferences.
[27:44.650 --> 27:45.790]  You can't do it.
[27:46.130 --> 27:50.670]  People don't preserve things and, uh, they fall into disrepair or the formats change.
[27:50.670 --> 27:55.490]  And Kyle, yes, you've been very involved in, in, in preserving all of this.
[27:55.630 --> 28:01.150]  And we have managed to save pretty much everything from all the conferences, all the eight conferences we've had so far.
[28:01.250 --> 28:01.370]  Yeah.
[28:01.490 --> 28:04.250]  I just want to say that this is near broadcast quality.
[28:04.350 --> 28:06.030]  These are really incredible DVDs.
[28:06.130 --> 28:09.650]  It'll look great on, on whatever, uh, whatever system you have in your house.
[28:09.810 --> 28:12.750]  Uh, standard, you know, DVD player will play anywhere in the world.
[28:13.010 --> 28:15.950]  You know, we don't use region codes or anything like that.
[28:16.150 --> 28:21.310]  Um, but we really put a lot of work into archiving and preserving that history that Bernie was talking about.
[28:21.490 --> 28:27.670]  And, uh, please, uh, support the station and get some of these, um, these talks, uh, uh, as a thank you.
[28:27.810 --> 28:32.490]  And, um, that keeps us going, keeps the, uh, the idea of off the hook and, and BAI going.
[28:32.690 --> 28:35.070]  Um, so we could, we could really use your calls.
[28:35.070 --> 28:37.470]  Please call 212-209-2950.
[28:37.670 --> 28:40.010]  I'm sorry to say that no one has taken you up on that offer yet.
[28:40.270 --> 28:47.030]  Uh, do you want to keep trying or, uh, well, sometimes, you know, sometimes it works if you just, uh, make it a personal appeal.
[28:47.170 --> 28:48.630]  Someone feels that you're talking directly to them.
[28:48.890 --> 28:49.830]  Well, I'll never quit.
[28:49.970 --> 28:50.410]  Give it a try.
[28:50.510 --> 28:50.910]  Give it a try.
[28:51.130 --> 28:51.710]  Sometimes it works.
[28:51.790 --> 28:52.290]  You'll be surprised.
[28:52.870 --> 28:53.230]  What?
[28:53.410 --> 28:56.230]  Please call 212-209.
[28:56.390 --> 28:57.810]  How many times do I have to say it?
[28:57.870 --> 28:59.290]  You know, please, somebody call.
[28:59.290 --> 29:00.250]  I know somebody's listening.
[29:00.390 --> 29:01.010]  Somebody's listening.
[29:01.270 --> 29:01.970]  Somebody's out there.
[29:02.110 --> 29:03.050]  They're, they're in their car.
[29:03.310 --> 29:06.750]  They're, they're, uh, they're maybe, uh, standing by the window, listening to the radio.
[29:06.790 --> 29:07.690]  It's really hot.
[29:07.830 --> 29:08.930]  They're looking down at the street.
[29:09.230 --> 29:12.430]  Um, maybe you're, maybe you're in some place that's nice and cool because you enjoy the internet.
[29:12.430 --> 29:14.770]  If anything Kyle says applies to you, you really have an obligation to call.
[29:14.890 --> 29:15.710]  So keep trying.
[29:15.950 --> 29:16.010]  Yeah.
[29:16.050 --> 29:16.210]  Yeah.
[29:16.290 --> 29:22.350]  Maybe, maybe you are, um, you're in Antarctica and you're getting your, uh, stream there, um, over a microwave.
[29:22.550 --> 29:24.090]  Nobody's in Antarctica listening to us.
[29:24.230 --> 29:25.190]  I'm almost certain of that.
[29:25.270 --> 29:25.610]  They are.
[29:25.710 --> 29:26.830]  They should call and prove us wrong.
[29:26.870 --> 29:27.990]  Well, if they are, they definitely should call.
[29:28.110 --> 29:33.870]  It's probably very expensive to call from Antarctica, but regardless, wherever you happen to be, if you're in a It's a place where it's chilly out.
[29:33.990 --> 29:37.410]  That would be cool if you called us, but mostly it's...
[29:37.410 --> 29:37.990]  That's nowhere.
[29:38.490 --> 29:40.630]  Yeah, probably not anywhere.
[29:41.110 --> 29:42.530]  Our phone lines are wide open now.
[29:42.630 --> 29:44.070]  Who wants to try and get a call?
[29:44.190 --> 29:46.010]  Mitch, it looks like you're capable of doing this.
[29:46.290 --> 29:46.650]  Sure.
[29:46.930 --> 29:51.030]  I've been involved with community radio for most of my adult life.
[29:51.150 --> 30:02.470]  I was working with community radio in Urbana, Illinois, WEFT, and one of the big inspirations for us was WBAI, the grandfather of all community radio.
[30:02.490 --> 30:03.310]  Hang on, hang on.
[30:04.710 --> 30:07.270]  Basically, Urbana, Illinois, next to Champaign, Illinois.
[30:07.690 --> 30:08.590]  Yeah, Urbana, Champaign.
[30:08.750 --> 30:09.430]  The college town there.
[30:09.990 --> 30:12.230]  Did you have another station called WBAI there?
[30:12.490 --> 30:13.510]  No, WEFT.
[30:13.710 --> 30:14.630]  Did I say WBAI?
[30:14.630 --> 30:16.390]  Well, you said WBAI inspired you.
[30:16.550 --> 30:17.130]  Yes, it did.
[30:17.190 --> 30:17.970]  How is that possible?
[30:17.970 --> 30:20.590]  You were so far away from our signal and it was pre-internet.
[30:20.610 --> 30:22.070]  Well, it is Urbana, Champaign.
[30:22.230 --> 30:36.470]  However, it is part of the continental United States, and we do have this kind of connection with New York and the rest of the country, as provincial as it might be, but there's planes and trains and cars, and you can even walk there if you want to, but we never did.
[30:36.470 --> 30:39.430]  We listened to recordings of WBAI.
[30:40.450 --> 30:40.890]  Really?
[30:40.890 --> 30:43.130]  How did you get recordings of WBAI?
[30:43.270 --> 30:43.930]  Well, they have them.
[30:44.130 --> 30:45.390]  People would smuggle them in?
[30:45.710 --> 30:48.910]  Oh, you know, there's Pacifica Network, so...
[30:48.910 --> 30:53.030]  Okay, so there are Pacifica programs that would air locally on your stations.
[30:53.030 --> 30:53.510]  Mm-hmm.
[30:53.610 --> 30:56.770]  Okay, and that's how you heard of WBAI in Illinois way back then.
[30:56.850 --> 31:04.530]  Yeah, even before we started WFT, we were encouraged by WBAI and also KPFA in Los Angeles.
[31:05.290 --> 31:08.210]  Or that's in Berkeley, KPFK in Los Angeles.
[31:08.390 --> 31:17.370]  So all of these people networked as that's what community radio is all about, people getting together and forming communities, supporting one another.
[31:17.370 --> 31:22.690]  And, you know, and that's what it's about, too, because you listening are part of the community.
[31:23.370 --> 31:27.310]  Community radio would be useless without a community to listen to it.
[31:27.630 --> 31:34.710]  And so if it fills a function in your life, which I certainly hope it does, we all do, please support it.
[31:34.710 --> 31:35.830]  We don't have any commercials.
[31:36.130 --> 31:41.790]  That's how it works is people supporting it in any way they can, including financially.
[31:42.110 --> 31:49.550]  So please call 212-209-2950 and you can get some really cool pledge rewards.
[31:49.550 --> 31:57.210]  Yeah, and I think what Mitch has spoken to is the fact that you don't have to be in New York to feel the benefits of WBAI.
[31:57.490 --> 32:07.230]  Clearly, your radio station in Illinois was able to be affected by our signal, our programs, even before internet streaming happened.
[32:07.230 --> 32:20.770]  And a strong WBAI means a strong community presence in other places as well because we produce programming that gets carried in other places and people listen to us and start their own programs locally.
[32:20.770 --> 32:27.890]  So it's sort of a cascading effect where if we do well, other stations feel they can do well in addition.
[32:27.890 --> 32:31.690]  And it's just good to support radio stations.
[32:31.790 --> 32:34.050]  I've supported radio stations that aren't local to me as well.
[32:34.650 --> 32:36.550]  So if you're listening to us on the radio, great.
[32:36.650 --> 32:38.390]  If you listen to us on the internet, that's great too.
[32:38.550 --> 32:44.150]  Either way, you're listeners and you're benefiting from this, you're learning from this, and you can be a part of it.
[32:44.230 --> 32:45.050]  You can be part of the family.
[32:45.550 --> 32:47.150]  212-209-2950.
[32:47.330 --> 32:49.030]  Remember, we have two packages tonight.
[32:49.190 --> 32:55.750]  We've got the Hope Greatest Hits 20 DVD set for a pledge of $75 or we have a 40 DVD set.
[32:55.750 --> 32:58.210]  That's right, 40 DVDs.
[32:58.530 --> 33:01.910]  And that's at least 40 hours, probably a bit more than that.
[33:02.030 --> 33:13.090]  And that's for a pledge of $125, which is quite a deal considering that if you went to the conference itself, you'd be spending more than that and you wouldn't be able to see all those talks in the first place because it's physically impossible.
[33:13.810 --> 33:18.990]  But it's like going to all of our conferences because you sort of see a little bit of everything.
[33:19.930 --> 33:21.510]  212-209-2950.
[33:21.510 --> 33:22.970]  We have two calls on the line.
[33:23.450 --> 33:26.750]  Let's see if we can get those volunteers busy down there.
[33:26.870 --> 33:28.310]  I think we have about four or five volunteers.
[33:29.790 --> 33:31.770]  212-209-2950.
[33:31.950 --> 33:32.090]  Rob?
[33:32.450 --> 33:40.530]  Yeah, there's a lot of parallels to be drawn, I think, between Hope and between things like WBAI and this station and this show because they're labors of love, basically.
[33:40.690 --> 33:43.850]  They're done because the people behind them think it's important to make it happen.
[33:43.850 --> 33:51.650]  You know, staff's full of volunteers, just people who do what they can to be there to produce something for you, for your benefit.
[33:51.890 --> 34:06.630]  And if you're into it, if you're into this show, if you're into our conferences, if you're into the things that we are granted this opportunity to share with you, the only way to keep it going is to become part of it and call 212-209-2950.
[34:07.270 --> 34:19.790]  If you've missed past Hope conferences, the next best thing is to get some pieces of it and get some recordings and check out what was going on when you couldn't be there.
[34:19.790 --> 34:21.930]  If you were there, you might like the recordings anyway.
[34:22.090 --> 34:27.190]  But what's important is that also with both of those packages, you get membership in the station.
[34:27.190 --> 34:28.790]  So you get a voice in WBAI.
[34:29.410 --> 34:32.430]  You get to have a say in what this place does next.
[34:33.110 --> 34:37.150]  Now, our goal tonight, my personal goal, is to get over $1,000 in the hour.
[34:37.890 --> 34:40.990]  And I think that's pretty good considering that we're so distracted tonight.
[34:40.990 --> 34:42.790]  We have so many other things to talk about.
[34:45.110 --> 34:49.670]  And basically, I know that people are weary of fund drives because they're everywhere.
[34:50.170 --> 34:51.250]  But they are necessary.
[34:51.970 --> 34:54.390]  So we're up to 175 so far.
[34:54.530 --> 34:55.870]  And I know we have a couple of calls.
[34:56.010 --> 34:57.310]  We have three calls on the line right now.
[34:57.350 --> 35:06.710]  So if we just get a few more calls, and yours could be one of them to 212-209-2950, we can move on to other topics and not have to worry about this.
[35:06.830 --> 35:07.410]  It is important.
[35:07.610 --> 35:10.790]  I know people roll their eyes into the back of their heads and say, this is awful.
[35:10.790 --> 35:12.150]  I can't stand these fund drives.
[35:12.150 --> 35:13.610]  People are always constantly asking for money.
[35:13.710 --> 35:14.610]  But think of the alternative.
[35:14.870 --> 35:18.950]  The alternative is that we have commercials, which you hear on every other radio station.
[35:19.550 --> 35:21.850]  And you don't hear us on every other radio station.
[35:21.930 --> 35:22.990]  It's a cause and effect.
[35:23.370 --> 35:24.770]  Very definite connection there.
[35:25.230 --> 35:28.530]  And when you have commercials, you can't do things to piss off the sponsors.
[35:28.550 --> 35:31.950]  And if you do that, you get kicked off the air before the sponsors do.
[35:32.270 --> 35:35.890]  So how long do you think we would last talking about the things that we talk about?
[35:37.050 --> 35:38.190]  I'm sorry, I'm going to have to take that.
[35:39.570 --> 35:40.950]  No, a lot is going on.
[35:40.950 --> 35:46.930]  But imagine if we said something about Verizon or something about the government.
[35:46.930 --> 35:48.290]  We do that all the time.
[35:49.370 --> 35:53.150]  Someone's going to say, management is going to say to us, you know, you're really upsetting the sponsor.
[35:53.290 --> 35:56.830]  That sponsor brings in a couple of million dollars a year and you don't.
[35:56.830 --> 36:00.010]  So you're not going to be the one to last.
[36:00.010 --> 36:01.230]  The sponsor will be.
[36:01.370 --> 36:08.550]  So if you don't say nice things about the sponsor or at least not upset the sponsor, then you're out of here.
[36:08.610 --> 36:09.610]  That's how radio works.
[36:09.690 --> 36:12.590]  That's how every station works that has commercials.
[36:12.850 --> 36:13.750]  So that's the alternative.
[36:13.750 --> 36:18.170]  If we don't ask for money in this way, then we have to take money in that way.
[36:18.170 --> 36:20.310]  And it's not an optional thing then.
[36:20.630 --> 36:22.070]  It's how it works.
[36:22.230 --> 36:23.610]  That's how it actually is.
[36:25.210 --> 36:27.150]  And it's an unfortunate reality.
[36:27.150 --> 36:27.670]  But you know what?
[36:27.730 --> 36:33.550]  I don't think it's so bad to go on the air every now and then and say, hey, people, you're part of this community.
[36:34.230 --> 36:40.050]  You know, pony up and let's contribute and steer this ship in a particular direction.
[36:40.050 --> 36:45.370]  Because you do get a say, as Rob was saying before, you do get to be part of the station.
[36:45.370 --> 36:46.130]  You get to vote.
[36:47.070 --> 36:50.890]  And all sorts of processes take place.
[36:51.570 --> 36:53.710]  Non-commercial radio is a precious commodity.
[36:53.710 --> 36:56.990]  It's something that is fairly unique to the United States.
[36:56.990 --> 37:00.890]  You don't really see stations like this in other parts of the world.
[37:00.890 --> 37:01.730]  Not that much.
[37:01.850 --> 37:04.110]  You do see better commercial stations in other parts of the world.
[37:04.190 --> 37:07.270]  But you don't really see stations like WBAI anywhere else.
[37:07.270 --> 37:11.270]  I've seen books in Germany written about Pacifica that feature WBAI.
[37:11.410 --> 37:19.050]  I've gotten into conversations with people on trains overseas back when WBAI was going through its problems in 2001.
[37:19.430 --> 37:24.970]  I remember having a conversation with somebody in Belgium on a train hoping that the station would be okay.
[37:25.210 --> 37:26.950]  That is the extent of it.
[37:27.030 --> 37:27.870]  You don't have...
[37:27.870 --> 37:34.270]  I guarantee you the new ESPN station on the FM dial here, people aren't going to have those kind of conversations overseas.
[37:34.410 --> 37:35.330]  Doesn't matter to them.
[37:35.470 --> 37:36.330]  Not that much.
[37:36.330 --> 37:39.730]  Yeah, they might tune in to hear the ball game or something like that.
[37:39.810 --> 37:45.210]  But I'll tell you what, they're not going to stand in the street and demonstrate to preserve it like people have done for us.
[37:45.910 --> 37:47.810]  That's the power of non-commercial radio.
[37:47.870 --> 37:48.450]  Yes, Bernie, please.
[37:48.510 --> 37:48.710]  Go ahead.
[37:49.030 --> 37:50.970]  I just want to give our listeners some perspective.
[37:52.370 --> 37:54.210]  We're all volunteers that do this radio show.
[37:54.530 --> 37:58.010]  Almost nobody you hear on WBAI gets paid to do this radio.
[37:58.010 --> 37:59.150]  It's a volunteer project.
[37:59.150 --> 38:13.370]  But there are some very real expenses, including renting space atop the Empire State Building, which is where WBAI's multi-thousand-watt radio transmitter and antenna is located.
[38:13.370 --> 38:18.630]  And that alone costs over half a million dollars a year.
[38:18.630 --> 38:19.570]  That's right.
[38:19.570 --> 38:24.830]  Now, WBAI's signal reaches four states from that very high...
[38:24.830 --> 38:29.450]  Well, up until a few days ago, it was the highest spot in New York City.
[38:29.450 --> 38:32.650]  But it's necessary.
[38:32.930 --> 38:34.410]  These are real expenses.
[38:34.530 --> 38:39.030]  And, of course, you've got to pay the electric bill to run this high-power radio transmitter.
[38:39.270 --> 38:41.790]  So these are real expenses that have to be paid.
[38:42.430 --> 38:44.130]  Free speech is not free.
[38:44.650 --> 38:47.410]  Free speech costs money if you want people to hear it.
[38:48.210 --> 39:05.070]  Whether you're printing a pamphlet or broadcasting something, putting up a website or broadcasting over the radio, which is a real precious commodity, especially on our crowded airwaves these days, this is really important that our listeners support free speech.
[39:05.070 --> 39:09.030]  It's the only free speech radio station in New York that's really free speech.
[39:09.130 --> 39:13.410]  It doesn't have to buckle to corporate underwriters and that kind of stuff.
[39:13.550 --> 39:18.710]  So, please, call 212-209-2950.
[39:18.710 --> 39:32.230]  Support free speech on WBAI and all the content that it brings you, including Off the Hook, which will give you a gift that we are donating just to encourage you to support this station.
[39:32.350 --> 39:34.110]  212-209-2950.
[39:34.390 --> 39:35.710]  You know, nothing else.
[39:36.070 --> 39:48.710]  Think about the history of this radio show and how WBAI was the one place where we could walk in, way back, nearly, was it 25 years ago?
[39:49.070 --> 39:49.690]  88?
[39:50.090 --> 39:50.590]  Is that right?
[39:50.710 --> 39:50.870]  Yeah.
[39:50.870 --> 39:52.870]  Next year, it'll be 25 years.
[39:53.070 --> 40:03.230]  We could walk in and be welcomed and encouraged to put on a radio program about hacking, about the computer underground, about things that nobody else was talking about on the radio.
[40:04.290 --> 40:17.150]  And that is magic, that there's a place that still exists to this day on the FM dial, not in the ghetto below 92 where all the non-commercial stations are pretty much a sign, but right in the middle, 99.5.
[40:17.350 --> 40:21.990]  And the reason for that is because this was a commercial station once and it was donated to the Pacifica Foundation.
[40:22.550 --> 40:25.870]  And that allows us to broadcast right there in the middle.
[40:25.950 --> 40:27.250]  So people find us by accident.
[40:27.290 --> 40:31.850]  We are just as powerful as every other station in Manhattan.
[40:31.850 --> 40:34.490]  We broadcast from the top of the Empire State Building.
[40:34.490 --> 40:39.090]  And yes, as Bernie said, that incurs tremendous cost, but it's also a hack.
[40:39.310 --> 40:43.250]  This whole place is a hack because it shouldn't exist.
[40:43.530 --> 40:44.550]  It's impossible.
[40:44.750 --> 40:48.850]  Just like having a conference like we're about to have in the middle of Manhattan is impossible.
[40:49.350 --> 40:50.910]  You know, who can do this?
[40:50.990 --> 40:54.710]  Who can pull this off right there across the street from Penn Station?
[40:55.170 --> 40:57.170]  There's no way you can possibly do this.
[40:57.270 --> 40:58.330]  It's got to be too expensive.
[40:58.430 --> 41:03.750]  And people won't come together and volunteer efforts and make the impossible happen.
[41:03.750 --> 41:04.190]  Well, you know what?
[41:04.210 --> 41:04.970]  We do it anyway.
[41:05.330 --> 41:09.950]  And just like this place exists anyway, it happens through your help, through your contributions.
[41:10.190 --> 41:11.430]  Every little bit counts.
[41:11.450 --> 41:18.970]  And when I say that we're $175, that's $175 more that we have raised since this fund drive began.
[41:19.570 --> 41:29.010]  And we're closer to our goal, closer to paying all the bills, closer to staying up on that tower for a much longer period of time, getting more people involved in this radio station, being there in the future.
[41:29.290 --> 41:31.470]  And as I turn my head, I see there are no calls on the line.
[41:31.470 --> 41:37.050]  So I'm hoping that those words might ring true and bring in a couple of more calls, 212-209-2950.
[41:37.410 --> 41:47.430]  Again, a pledge of $75 gets you 20 DVDs, highlights of the Hackers on Planet Earth conference over the years, from 1994 to 2010.
[41:47.610 --> 41:53.130]  For a pledge of $125, you'll get 40 DVDs, 212-209-2950.
[41:54.310 --> 41:56.270]  And I'm not going to stop until we get another call.
[41:56.350 --> 41:58.250]  Because we have something special to share with people.
[41:59.130 --> 42:00.490]  Okay, I see another call is coming in.
[42:00.670 --> 42:02.390]  Okay, you know, and if that call stays on.
[42:02.630 --> 42:06.450]  You know, I don't like when people just call and hang up and say, oh, I made the phone ring and that count.
[42:06.450 --> 42:07.070]  No, it doesn't count.
[42:07.870 --> 42:09.670]  You got to stay on and actually make a pledge.
[42:09.890 --> 42:12.470]  Okay, so is that line going to... and there's another one coming in too.
[42:12.470 --> 42:14.190]  So we have two calls coming in.
[42:14.270 --> 42:16.750]  The odds are good that somebody is going to stay on the line, right?
[42:18.310 --> 42:19.230]  Okay, good, good.
[42:19.450 --> 42:20.410]  We have somebody staying on the line.
[42:20.550 --> 42:21.310]  So okay, we have...
[42:21.310 --> 42:22.970]  Kyle, you just brought this up from downstairs.
[42:23.130 --> 42:24.710]  This just arrived.
[42:25.270 --> 42:27.690]  And this is the fun part about the HOPE conferences.
[42:27.870 --> 42:33.130]  Things just keep arriving that you've been working on over the years, over the months.
[42:33.610 --> 42:37.610]  We have new articles of clothing that are being debuted at the HOPE conference.
[42:37.690 --> 42:40.230]  HOPE is actually like a fashion show too sometimes in the hacker world.
[42:41.450 --> 42:44.990]  And we have... what would you describe this as, Kyle?
[42:47.010 --> 42:48.390]  Oh, well, this is the...
[42:48.390 --> 42:49.470]  Did I catch you off?
[42:49.470 --> 42:50.650]  It wasn't that hard a question.
[42:50.690 --> 42:52.030]  Yeah, it's a pretty simple question.
[42:52.030 --> 42:56.110]  This is the event program for the HOPE number nine conference.
[42:56.970 --> 42:57.330]  That's...
[42:57.330 --> 42:58.610]  This is what you need to get through it.
[42:58.650 --> 42:59.530]  Going to take place...
[42:59.530 --> 43:01.450]  Yeah, it's going to take place Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
[43:01.570 --> 43:03.170]  So this has every single day.
[43:03.350 --> 43:04.130]  Listen to how thick it is.
[43:04.650 --> 43:07.530]  I mean, that's a solid publication.
[43:07.590 --> 43:09.010]  That's why we don't have nice things here.
[43:09.010 --> 43:09.790]  Well...
[43:09.790 --> 43:10.970]  I had to make the point.
[43:10.990 --> 43:12.010]  You're bludgeoning the microphone with the...
[43:12.010 --> 43:13.650]  You know, it's a 40 page.
[43:13.850 --> 43:18.250]  40 pages with a nice lavender cover.
[43:18.630 --> 43:19.110]  Lilac.
[43:19.270 --> 43:19.890]  Is it lilac?
[43:19.990 --> 43:20.390]  Is that the...
[43:20.810 --> 43:21.430]  Okay, cool.
[43:22.050 --> 43:26.890]  And yeah, it's an official program with all the talks listed.
[43:27.270 --> 43:30.090]  And a good number of projects and workshops as well.
[43:30.290 --> 43:34.210]  Maps, biographies of all the people, a little scheduling grid.
[43:34.750 --> 43:36.530]  It's really pretty cool.
[43:36.710 --> 43:37.830]  I don't know how we did this.
[43:39.010 --> 43:42.250]  So that just came out and everybody who attends a conference is going to get this.
[43:42.730 --> 43:42.830]  Wait, wait.
[43:42.830 --> 43:46.310]  Don't you, as a profession, publish a print publication every quarter?
[43:46.310 --> 43:46.610]  I do.
[43:46.670 --> 43:47.710]  And I don't know how I do that either.
[43:47.850 --> 43:49.350]  But this is something different.
[43:49.890 --> 43:51.250]  And this just got here.
[43:51.390 --> 43:53.590]  So yeah, it's pretty cool.
[43:53.590 --> 43:59.710]  So now we can actually look at the scheduling grid, hold it in our hands, and run through some of the talks.
[44:00.470 --> 44:05.110]  Like for instance, okay, let's start on Friday, okay, starting at 10 o'clock in the morning.
[44:05.670 --> 44:06.430]  10 o'clock in the morning?
[44:06.450 --> 44:07.590]  Yeah, we're just gonna read through...
[44:07.590 --> 44:09.390]  We have so many talks that we have to start at 10 o'clock in the morning.
[44:09.390 --> 44:12.290]  We have three rooms, Dennis, Sassaman, and Nut.
[44:12.670 --> 44:17.670]  And every one of those names means something in the hacker world and we explain it all at the conference.
[44:17.990 --> 44:20.230]  But let's look at the room called Dennis.
[44:20.230 --> 44:23.170]  At 10 o'clock, we have community fabrication, four years later.
[44:23.270 --> 44:24.970]  11 o'clock, the state of open source hardware.
[44:25.390 --> 44:27.590]  12 o'clock, the autism spectrum and you.
[44:28.370 --> 44:31.810]  1 o'clock, Kryptome tracks the NYPD ring of steel.
[44:32.330 --> 44:35.850]  At 2 o'clock, one of our keynotes, William Binney from the NSA.
[44:36.530 --> 44:39.130]  4 o'clock, hacktivism tools and the Arab Spring.
[44:39.730 --> 44:42.830]  At 5 o'clock, the meme factory, kill the internet.
[44:43.250 --> 44:46.030]  6 p.m., why you shouldn't write off higher education.
[44:46.030 --> 44:50.510]  7 p.m., mastering master key systems, a lock picking talk.
[44:50.830 --> 44:56.630]  At 8 o'clock, WikiLeaks, whistleblowers, and the war on the First Amendment hosted by some ACLU friends.
[44:57.110 --> 45:00.990]  9 o'clock, Sierra Zulu, how to create a film about the digital age.
[45:01.190 --> 45:03.930]  Hosted by our good Austrian friend, Johannes.
[45:04.590 --> 45:07.150]  At 10 o'clock, the internet is for porn.
[45:07.650 --> 45:08.690]  Nothing more need be said.
[45:09.110 --> 45:12.670]  11 p.m., hosting IRC.2600.net.
[45:12.670 --> 45:14.290]  My life with the thrill-kill cult.
[45:14.910 --> 45:16.010]  That's going to be something.
[45:16.330 --> 45:20.630]  And at Midnight Hacker Cinema, there's going to be all kinds of fun things there.
[45:21.090 --> 45:23.030]  That's just one room, one day.
[45:23.230 --> 45:23.410]  Okay?
[45:23.430 --> 45:24.410]  We have three rooms.
[45:24.490 --> 45:27.150]  Actually, we have four rooms over three days.
[45:27.610 --> 45:31.770]  But I just read you the talks for the first day in one of the rooms.
[45:31.790 --> 45:33.610]  So picture that times three.
[45:33.630 --> 45:34.610]  That's one day.
[45:35.070 --> 45:37.290]  That times nine is the conference.
[45:37.530 --> 45:40.930]  No, that times 12 is the conference because we have a fourth room of unscheduled talks.
[45:40.930 --> 45:55.670]  So, yeah, even if your talk was not accepted or if you didn't even submit a talk, you have the opportunity to go down there, down to the conference, sign up, and give a talk to people, an enthusiastic crowd, and they'll learn something from what you have to say.
[45:56.110 --> 46:01.850]  I had a hard time when you were going through that list, like not interrupting you to tell you how awesome each talk was going to be.
[46:01.970 --> 46:02.390]  Oh, shucks.
[46:02.490 --> 46:02.990]  Yeah, they are.
[46:03.030 --> 46:03.650]  They are pretty awesome.
[46:03.770 --> 46:04.830]  You want to pick any in particular?
[46:05.270 --> 46:06.030]  I don't know.
[46:06.410 --> 46:07.610]  Just point your finger down.
[46:07.770 --> 46:09.570]  So people don't know about Meme Factory?
[46:09.570 --> 46:10.310]  Meme Factory?
[46:10.590 --> 46:23.330]  Are people who use projectors and whatnot, and they tell you about the internet and they tell you about memes and they tell you about funny things on the internet and they're hilarious and they're great and they're at 5 o'clock on Friday.
[46:24.070 --> 46:25.370]  I read that one already.
[46:25.510 --> 46:25.650]  Yeah.
[46:25.850 --> 46:26.790]  Well, why don't you read a different one?
[46:26.830 --> 46:27.730]  Oh, a different day?
[46:27.870 --> 46:29.090]  Yeah, I read those ones.
[46:29.290 --> 46:30.350]  Well, I was following along.
[46:30.550 --> 46:35.190]  There's people bubbling over with rage or we haven't focused on their talks, and we keep reading the same ones.
[46:37.030 --> 46:39.330]  We have this... we have the yes, man.
[46:39.410 --> 46:39.870]  We know about that.
[46:39.950 --> 46:42.630]  We have a two-hour special on drones.
[46:43.730 --> 46:45.750]  A two-hour special on drones, you say?
[46:45.830 --> 46:46.450]  Drones, yeah.
[46:46.450 --> 46:46.610]  Okay.
[46:46.770 --> 46:49.970]  How you can... what they do, how you can make your own, I think.
[46:50.310 --> 46:51.170]  All right, all right.
[46:52.070 --> 46:53.270]  Drones are going to be a theme.
[46:53.270 --> 46:53.990]  I know that much.
[46:54.110 --> 46:57.330]  There are going to be drones at the conference and all kinds of other bits of technology.
[46:57.410 --> 46:59.950]  Anybody want to talk about some of the technology we're going to have at this thing?
[47:00.790 --> 47:02.470]  Bernie, anything that you want to focus on?
[47:03.290 --> 47:05.690]  Well, there's all kinds of technologies.
[47:05.870 --> 47:07.270]  You mean demonstrating technologies?
[47:07.530 --> 47:09.570]  Yeah, some of the things that people will say, wow, that's cool.
[47:09.670 --> 47:10.750]  I can actually touch this.
[47:10.750 --> 47:19.710]  Yeah, there's one of the... I mean, there's literally dozens of workshops and demos going on there, I hope, besides the 101 or so talks.
[47:19.970 --> 47:28.850]  One of them that I thought was pretty intriguing is some folks are coming to do a demo of something called the Byzantine Project.
[47:28.850 --> 47:39.410]  Byzantium is a version of Linux that allows people to fairly easily build a mesh network of computers.
[47:39.410 --> 48:01.990]  Basically, you can set up your own little private or public Internet over Wi-Fi or other wireless protocols independent of an Internet that could be shut down either through a natural or man-made disaster or by an oppressive regime, as we've seen in other countries and perhaps in this country.
[48:02.810 --> 48:05.630]  So this is a really interesting demo that struck me.
[48:05.750 --> 48:16.910]  It really fits in well with the whole free speech angle and preserving communications lines between people when they could be shut down by people who control the levers behind the curtains.
[48:16.910 --> 48:31.390]  So this is a good thing that's going on in the hackerspace village, and they'll be handing out 500 copies on CD or DVD of this software that you can use for free to build a wireless network.
[48:31.550 --> 48:32.290]  It's great stuff.
[48:32.850 --> 48:33.930]  It certainly is.
[48:34.050 --> 48:35.910]  And I've just been perusing through this book.
[48:36.030 --> 48:42.010]  But, you know, I could read this book all night, this booklet that we just got outlining what's happening at Hope this weekend.
[48:42.010 --> 48:45.350]  But I'm also looking at the phone lines, which are empty right now.
[48:45.550 --> 48:47.150]  I see we've raised $670.
[48:47.150 --> 48:49.490]  So we're getting closer to that $1,000 goal.
[48:49.670 --> 48:50.950]  It's within reach.
[48:51.170 --> 48:55.250]  And if a couple more people call in, then we'll get to $1,000.
[48:55.910 --> 49:02.230]  Again, you will get 20 DVDs, the best of the Hope Conferences over the years, from 1994 to 2010.
[49:02.950 --> 49:04.510]  20 DVDs for $75.
[49:04.550 --> 49:10.410]  You'll get 40 of the best talks at the Hope Conferences for $125.
[49:11.310 --> 49:13.290]  $212-209-2950.
[49:13.490 --> 49:16.670]  Let's light those phone calls up in the last few minutes of this program.
[49:16.810 --> 49:19.890]  I want to thank Thomas from, it looks like, Parlin, New Jersey.
[49:20.050 --> 49:21.750]  I've never heard of that place before.
[49:21.890 --> 49:22.830]  But somewhere in New Jersey.
[49:22.970 --> 49:24.950]  Thomas, thank you very much for your generous donation.
[49:25.110 --> 49:26.830]  And Greg from Manning, South Carolina.
[49:27.290 --> 49:32.650]  It's all living proof that the signal gets out over the internet to all over the world.
[49:33.230 --> 49:37.350]  I imagine years ago, it never would have been possible for somebody in South Carolina to be listening live.
[49:37.350 --> 49:38.470]  But that's possible now.
[49:38.650 --> 49:40.030]  And who knows what will be possible in the future.
[49:40.850 --> 49:42.370]  212-209-2950.
[49:42.590 --> 49:43.790]  Let's get a few more calls coming in.
[49:43.890 --> 49:51.710]  And we can say that this, despite all the distractions and all the various things that we're involved in, we did well.
[49:51.870 --> 49:56.390]  Now, Carl, I don't like to call people out here, but I know I said you've been looking at your phone.
[49:56.390 --> 50:00.590]  And is there something that you want to share with the rest of the group?
[50:00.710 --> 50:02.490]  Because, you know, we are doing a radio show here.
[50:02.650 --> 50:05.270]  And you look concerned like something is going on.
[50:05.450 --> 50:06.670]  I actually just got an alert.
[50:06.790 --> 50:13.170]  I don't know that the timing is really spooky because Bernie was just talking about technologies to create your own networks.
[50:13.570 --> 50:14.790]  You got an alert on your phone.
[50:15.010 --> 50:15.130]  I did.
[50:15.230 --> 50:15.990]  I just got an alert.
[50:15.990 --> 50:18.230]  Okay, you want to read us the alert?
[50:18.830 --> 50:18.850]  Yeah.
[50:19.690 --> 50:20.990]  We're really tied in here.
[50:21.110 --> 50:22.610]  212-209-2950.
[50:22.990 --> 50:28.630]  President just signed order to take control of web in a national emergency.
[50:28.870 --> 50:29.150]  Uh-huh.
[50:29.510 --> 50:31.550]  And it says, does this scare you?
[50:31.730 --> 50:33.290]  This president is scary.
[50:33.730 --> 50:42.050]  His executive orders never stop to take control of resources and communications.
[50:42.650 --> 50:46.290]  And this alert is telling me they just saw something on CNBC.
[50:46.610 --> 50:47.730]  This is what?
[50:47.910 --> 50:50.050]  Associated Press or CNN?
[50:50.250 --> 50:51.550]  Who is it that...
[50:51.550 --> 50:52.170]  What is your source?
[50:52.330 --> 50:52.690]  What do you mean?
[50:52.750 --> 50:53.330]  Why do you want to know?
[50:53.430 --> 50:53.970]  Well, I just...
[50:53.970 --> 50:59.850]  The way you read that, it doesn't sound like something that's like a news story.
[50:59.950 --> 51:00.790]  I mean, it might be Fox.
[51:00.930 --> 51:04.090]  It could be Fox News, the way they say this to scare you or whatever.
[51:04.290 --> 51:06.290]  But usually news stories don't say that.
[51:06.390 --> 51:07.430]  They usually are a bit...
[51:07.430 --> 51:08.230]  I verified it.
[51:08.310 --> 51:09.430]  I went to some other sites.
[51:09.850 --> 51:11.150]  But yeah, that was for my dad.
[51:13.010 --> 51:14.030]  That was from your dad.
[51:14.190 --> 51:15.130]  Your dad...
[51:15.130 --> 51:16.410]  So basically, it's a text message.
[51:17.370 --> 51:17.950]  Well, I...
[51:17.950 --> 51:18.570]  It's not an alert.
[51:18.630 --> 51:19.990]  It's a text message from your dad.
[51:20.350 --> 51:20.910]  Yeah, kind of.
[51:20.990 --> 51:21.110]  Yeah.
[51:21.110 --> 51:21.330]  Okay.
[51:21.550 --> 51:21.850]  All right.
[51:21.910 --> 51:22.490]  Well, that's fine.
[51:22.710 --> 51:24.590]  I mean, that's as odd a news source as anything.
[51:25.170 --> 51:28.510]  So he believes that we should be afraid of...
[51:28.510 --> 51:29.070]  I don't see...
[51:29.070 --> 51:30.050]  Why shouldn't we be afraid?
[51:30.170 --> 51:34.630]  There's people out there more afraid of Obama than Romney.
[51:35.430 --> 51:36.570]  I'm afraid of everybody.
[51:36.830 --> 51:39.490]  Yeah, the whole thing is kind of scary, the way it's going to go down this fall.
[51:39.490 --> 51:39.730]  Yeah, that's irrelevant.
[51:40.910 --> 51:43.190]  What I'd like to know is, what would Romney do differently?
[51:43.630 --> 51:46.810]  Yeah, I think these things are a threat to, you know, under any presidency.
[51:47.090 --> 51:51.550]  I maintain anybody that sets foot in that house is going to want to take control of everything at some point.
[51:51.690 --> 51:51.850]  Yeah.
[51:52.150 --> 51:52.310]  Right?
[51:52.310 --> 51:54.270]  I think you have it a little bit backwards.
[51:54.270 --> 51:58.890]  Anyone who wants to step foot in that house already wants to take control of everything.
[51:59.470 --> 51:59.690]  Okay.
[52:00.470 --> 52:01.010]  That's sort of...
[52:01.010 --> 52:03.090]  It's not the setting foot, you know.
[52:03.290 --> 52:03.470]  Uh-huh.
[52:03.470 --> 52:05.190]  That's not how it works.
[52:05.530 --> 52:05.930]  Okay.
[52:06.050 --> 52:07.170]  Well, okay, so what do we do?
[52:07.530 --> 52:08.010]  I don't know.
[52:08.150 --> 52:08.390]  All right.
[52:08.390 --> 52:15.530]  Well, what we do is the government is not providing us what we want and need, so let's do it on our own.
[52:15.610 --> 52:16.830]  Is there another alert from your dad there?
[52:16.970 --> 52:17.470]  No, no, no.
[52:17.550 --> 52:17.970]  I just...
[52:18.590 --> 52:19.470]  I followed up.
[52:19.590 --> 52:20.810]  I checked into it.
[52:20.890 --> 52:20.990]  Okay.
[52:20.990 --> 52:26.070]  The order itself is called the Assignment of National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions.
[52:26.770 --> 52:28.650]  Do we have time for the whole name?
[52:29.990 --> 52:35.090]  Is it going to go into effect this weekend when we all get on the internet from the hacker conference?
[52:35.390 --> 52:37.410]  It might be in effect right now.
[52:37.570 --> 52:37.810]  Uh-huh.
[52:37.970 --> 52:38.570]  Bernie, guess.
[52:39.170 --> 52:41.090]  I just read this earlier today.
[52:41.330 --> 52:42.930]  I posted it to the office of mail.
[52:42.930 --> 52:43.070]  What?
[52:43.070 --> 52:44.350]  You got an alert from Kyle's dad, too?
[52:44.690 --> 52:49.550]  There was an article on the Epyx website, the Electronic Privacy Information Center.
[52:49.590 --> 52:49.830]  Wow.
[52:49.830 --> 52:50.850]  He really got the news out.
[52:50.850 --> 53:00.050]  It basically says that the White House released a new executive order seeking to ensure the continuity of government communications during a national emergency.
[53:00.630 --> 53:20.010]  And what this executive order does is it grants new powers to the Department of Homeland Security, including the ability to collect certain public communications information and to seize private communications facilities when necessary, effectively shutting down or limiting civilian communications.
[53:20.850 --> 53:23.050]  Folks, this is not Egypt we're talking about.
[53:24.550 --> 53:25.910]  This is not Syria.
[53:26.290 --> 53:28.110]  This is the United States of America.
[53:28.110 --> 53:40.710]  And if you want to really have an interest in continuing to hear what's going on, I really urge you to call WBAI at 212-209-2950 and support free speech.
[53:40.710 --> 53:47.730]  I can guarantee you if there's a government order telling WBAI to shut down, WBAI will not shut down.
[53:48.010 --> 53:55.530]  Not easily anyway, but all kinds of technologies being put into place that will automate that and make it so that we can't resist.
[53:55.710 --> 54:07.910]  But the important thing is, if we are strong, if we have a lot of people who are pledged to be our listeners that can vote, that can be a part of our family, we become all the stronger.
[54:08.070 --> 54:09.290]  We become a lot more of a force.
[54:09.430 --> 54:14.490]  And if you're not a part of it, you have less of a say, you have less of a voice.
[54:14.630 --> 54:18.770]  So please, in our remaining moments, I'd like to see that phone light up some more.
[54:18.770 --> 54:21.790]  212-209-2950, we're still at $670.
[54:22.390 --> 54:25.390]  We need to raise another, what, $330?
[54:25.810 --> 54:26.490]  Is that...
[54:26.490 --> 54:27.950]  Yeah, I got that right, $330.
[54:28.190 --> 54:29.250]  So that's a couple of calls.
[54:29.390 --> 54:34.290]  212-209-2950, two pledge levels, $75 and $125.
[54:36.090 --> 54:40.550]  You get Hope, Greatest Hits, 20 DVDs, 40 DVDs, your choice.
[54:40.690 --> 54:43.530]  212-209-2950.
[54:43.870 --> 54:50.290]  I mean, not to be too melodramatic, but the government, we don't want them to shut us down, but we can't let a lack of resources shut us down either.
[54:50.450 --> 54:56.650]  And that is something that is very possible when you try and get all your money from individual people and not giant corporations.
[54:56.970 --> 55:01.090]  So be one of those individual people, 212-209-2950.
[55:01.290 --> 55:01.930]  Look at it this way.
[55:02.090 --> 55:04.230]  You are supporting commercial radio every day.
[55:04.230 --> 55:13.890]  When you buy things in your store, when you order things online, that all covers advertising budgets for all kinds of media outlets, something we don't have.
[55:14.390 --> 55:18.850]  So it's really a very simple thing for them to continue operating.
[55:19.030 --> 55:26.610]  They can simply charge more for advertising, and companies will pay it and pass the cost along to you, the listener, the consumer.
[55:26.830 --> 55:30.570]  Here at the radio station, here at WBAI, it's a bit more direct.
[55:30.650 --> 55:35.610]  You contribute to us, and we stay on the air and serve you better.
[55:35.770 --> 55:37.350]  212-209-2950.
[55:37.410 --> 55:38.350]  We have one call on the line.
[55:38.350 --> 55:39.650]  Thank you very much for that call.
[55:40.110 --> 55:42.370]  One or two more, and I think we're over the top.
[55:42.570 --> 55:46.870]  And that's really all we ask for, is to see that support come in.
[55:46.930 --> 55:47.670]  There's another phone call.
[55:47.770 --> 55:47.910]  Great.
[55:48.130 --> 55:50.530]  212-209-2950.
[55:50.530 --> 55:51.250]  One more call.
[55:51.410 --> 55:52.870]  Boy, I think that would make us all so happy.
[55:52.970 --> 55:56.870]  Who wants to really pitch in and try to get that call to come in?
[55:57.010 --> 55:57.210]  Anyone?
[55:57.430 --> 55:57.730]  Not Kevin?
[55:57.810 --> 55:57.990]  Go ahead.
[55:58.070 --> 56:10.910]  It's unbelievable the number of people I've met all across the country and the world who have not only heard of this radio station and this show, but really kind of embody that spirit of free speech, especially something that this station, every day, strives to achieve.
[56:11.090 --> 56:16.250]  It's something that has a resounding effect on many people that I've met, regardless if they've heard our show or not.
[56:16.410 --> 56:17.610]  They know WBAI.
[56:17.990 --> 56:19.230]  Please help us.
[56:19.590 --> 56:19.890]  Donate.
[56:20.030 --> 56:23.530]  I didn't drive 329 miles today for you not to donate.
[56:23.890 --> 56:24.850]  Please give us anything.
[56:25.250 --> 56:26.570]  Not only that, you're...
[56:26.570 --> 56:27.530]  How much miles did you drive?
[56:28.110 --> 56:28.550]  329.
[56:29.010 --> 56:29.630]  329 miles.
[56:29.650 --> 56:30.710]  So then people better donate.
[56:30.930 --> 56:31.370]  Yeah, please.
[56:31.550 --> 56:32.630]  Don't let my gas go to Vane.
[56:32.630 --> 56:39.690]  Yeah, you know, we've often gone over all kinds of hurdles to get to this radio station in time.
[56:39.890 --> 56:40.610]  Today was one day.
[56:41.070 --> 56:45.330]  You and me and I, Kevin, we did that once, getting back from the airport and racing in a cab to get here in time.
[56:46.170 --> 56:50.170]  It's always a lot of fun to do that, but if our listeners are there, it makes it all worthwhile.
[56:50.370 --> 56:51.210]  And there are hurdles.
[56:51.410 --> 57:05.150]  Our DVDs that we're going to be giving you are things that we're donating, producing, and giving to you out of our pockets just because we want to give those to the station without cost, so they have something to send you to thank you for supporting us because it's that important to us that you support us.
[57:05.570 --> 57:05.850]  Absolutely.
[57:06.150 --> 57:10.370]  I want to thank the three calls on the line, and please join them, 212-209-2950.
[57:10.670 --> 57:16.430]  Hope to see you at the Hackers on Planet Earth Conference this Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Hotel Pennsylvania, New York City.
[57:16.630 --> 57:21.670]  Go to www.hope.net, and we hope to see you there, and we'll see you next week.
[57:21.670 --> 57:22.430]  We'll tell you what happened.
[57:22.610 --> 57:22.810]  Good night.
[59:36.660 --> 59:42.260]  I love that show, Off the Hook, these guys are.
[59:42.760 --> 59:43.340]  Yeah.