[00:00.000 --> 00:03.940]  We're going to pitch, bring you great premiums, and talk hot topics.
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[00:05.140 --> 00:06.900]  July 10th is when we start.
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[00:36.530 --> 00:40.790]  And the time is just about 7.01pm.
[00:41.190 --> 00:48.330]  You're listening to WBAI 99.5 FM New York, and it is time for another edition of Off the Hook.
[01:10.870 --> 01:12.530]  The best, expect the worst.
[01:13.310 --> 01:15.030]  I hope that's understood.
[01:15.230 --> 01:16.050]  One minute more!
[01:36.710 --> 01:38.570]  And a very good evening to all of you.
[01:38.870 --> 01:41.030]  The show is Off the Hook.
[01:41.430 --> 01:41.990]  Rob T.
[01:42.110 --> 01:43.030]  Firefly here with you.
[01:43.170 --> 01:45.110]  I am joined in the studio by Mike.
[01:45.290 --> 01:45.510]  Hello.
[01:45.970 --> 01:46.450]  And Gus.
[01:46.670 --> 01:47.250]  Oh, hi.
[01:47.650 --> 01:48.290]  And Jim is here.
[01:48.470 --> 01:48.730]  Hello.
[01:49.430 --> 01:51.910]  And on the phone, I believe we have Bernie S.
[01:54.130 --> 01:55.570]  Mr. Bernie S., are you there?
[01:56.050 --> 01:56.730]  I'm here.
[01:56.830 --> 01:57.330]  There you are.
[01:57.750 --> 01:58.370]  I'm here.
[01:58.510 --> 01:59.050]  Can you hear me?
[01:59.050 --> 02:00.150]  Yes, we can hear you.
[02:00.170 --> 02:00.870]  Yeah, we're here this week.
[02:01.090 --> 02:02.330]  We're here this week.
[02:03.110 --> 02:06.530]  Emmanuel is trapped in a flood, apparently.
[02:08.390 --> 02:10.870]  Yeah, there's flash flooding going on around the city.
[02:11.030 --> 02:16.390]  It was 90-something degrees all day, and suddenly thunderstorms and flash flooding.
[02:16.610 --> 02:18.630]  So he's drowning in traffic somewhere.
[02:20.310 --> 02:26.570]  While we are in the studio, which is rather warm, but I think we can manage.
[02:26.570 --> 02:29.950]  So while I was gone, WBA, I purchased a sauna?
[02:30.490 --> 02:30.930]  Yes.
[02:31.330 --> 02:31.690]  Yes.
[02:31.850 --> 02:34.630]  I think Red Hacked should be here today.
[02:34.630 --> 02:35.170]  He's not.
[02:35.310 --> 02:37.830]  But, you know, he would probably appreciate a sauna.
[02:37.890 --> 02:40.710]  He'd probably provide the birch branches for flagellating ourselves.
[02:41.290 --> 02:41.490]  Indeed.
[02:41.770 --> 02:44.330]  Yeah, and show us where to go jump into some icy cold water afterwards.
[02:45.250 --> 02:45.970]  Oh, my.
[02:46.150 --> 02:50.290]  Okay, so there was a little something special that happened this past weekend, wasn't there?
[02:50.870 --> 02:51.470]  Oh, yes.
[02:51.710 --> 02:52.030]  What?
[02:52.050 --> 02:52.530]  Yes.
[02:52.530 --> 02:53.890]  I don't know what you're talking about, Rob.
[02:54.290 --> 02:55.590]  I am talking about...
[02:55.590 --> 02:56.910]  Yes, I am talking about Hope.
[02:57.010 --> 02:57.310]  It was my birthday!
[02:57.890 --> 02:59.230]  It was Gus's birthday.
[02:59.770 --> 03:00.030]  Yes.
[03:00.310 --> 03:03.730]  It was Gus's birthday, which, of course, bears celebrating.
[03:03.930 --> 03:07.070]  But apart from that, there was a little conference called Hackers on Planet Earth.
[03:07.070 --> 03:08.130]  Hope number nine.
[03:08.330 --> 03:09.810]  The conference for my birthday!
[03:10.070 --> 03:11.310]  The conference for Gus's birthday.
[03:11.530 --> 03:12.370]  It's my favorite party.
[03:12.650 --> 03:16.850]  And many other things besides Gus's birthday happened at this conference.
[03:17.210 --> 03:18.630]  We had a hundred talks?
[03:19.050 --> 03:21.150]  Yeah, I think we had at least a hundred talks.
[03:21.310 --> 03:27.770]  We also had the unscheduled talks and lightning talks and things like that, which totally make our human systems of counting meaningless.
[03:28.870 --> 03:31.250]  But we had an insane amount of talks.
[03:31.410 --> 03:32.990]  We had workshops going on.
[03:33.870 --> 03:35.910]  We had all sorts of presentations going on.
[03:37.430 --> 03:41.410]  Gus, why don't you tell us a little bit about some of the special things you were doing this con.
[03:41.430 --> 03:42.270]  Some of the things that I was doing.
[03:42.370 --> 03:48.470]  I was about to say that workshops were pretty special because a lot of the time we've had a lot of sort of sit-down-and-talk-at-you kind of talks.
[03:48.470 --> 03:51.230]  And this time, having workshops, you know, people actually got to do hands-on things.
[03:51.310 --> 03:53.090]  They got to solder in the workshops.
[03:53.110 --> 03:54.530]  They got to sort of talk back and forth.
[03:55.150 --> 04:03.610]  We heard from, I think, Georgia and Stephanie in Philadelphia who talked about how to make your hackerspace more gender-inclusive.
[04:04.410 --> 04:05.790]  And I heard that went rather well.
[04:05.790 --> 04:14.010]  They said they had a lot of people in there who sort of didn't know how they were going to approach things, how Stephanie and Georgia were going to approach things.
[04:14.030 --> 04:16.230]  So they felt like they really changed their minds, and that was kind of cool.
[04:16.950 --> 04:22.570]  But I was running the chiptune concerts and the art, and that was a lot of fun.
[04:22.630 --> 04:36.410]  We had a pretty full gallery with people sort of talking about things, everything from sort of musical instruments to transhumanist kinds of things, addressing, you know, what...
[04:36.410 --> 04:40.070]  There was one guy who wanted to make transhumanism sort of more approachable by...
[04:40.070 --> 04:41.510]  I don't even know what that means.
[04:41.770 --> 04:51.370]  Transhumanism is sort of this, you know, it's the idea that we'll all be cybernetic and we'll all, you know, be able to sort of transcend our bodies in a lot of ways, sort of a futuristic way of looking at things.
[04:51.610 --> 04:56.870]  And he was making those ideas sort of more palatable by putting them in the style of children art.
[04:57.090 --> 04:59.650]  So it would look like something your kid made and you put it up in your fridge.
[04:59.890 --> 05:06.070]  And he was also sort of dealing with all these ideas about nanotechnology and how it's going to be used.
[05:06.170 --> 05:10.330]  We're going to use 3D printers and you'll be able to make anything we want to through nanotechnology and printing.
[05:10.530 --> 05:21.230]  So he was using a rep-rap to make sculptures of things at the nano level of, you know, forms of crystals and, you know, biological materials and things like that.
[05:21.290 --> 05:21.850]  So that was pretty cool.
[05:22.770 --> 05:25.110]  The chiptune concerts went really well.
[05:25.110 --> 05:26.530]  We had an artist in from Sweden.
[05:26.830 --> 05:29.090]  And do we have any way of playing some of the stuff?
[05:29.250 --> 05:31.050]  Because did we get Radio Statler streaming on?
[05:31.290 --> 05:31.630]  Or...
[05:31.630 --> 05:32.250]  We have...
[05:32.250 --> 05:34.290]  Radio Statler had a certain amount of things archived.
[05:34.950 --> 05:37.470]  I'm not sure if the chiptunes were among them.
[05:37.790 --> 05:39.690]  But there was...
[05:39.690 --> 05:44.970]  Yeah, if you go to radio.hope.net, you can check out some of the programming that happened on Radio Statler.
[05:45.630 --> 05:46.610]  Some of it's archived.
[05:46.670 --> 05:47.030]  I'm not...
[05:47.030 --> 05:51.910]  I think some of it hasn't come up yet, but you can download and play many things.
[05:51.910 --> 05:54.410]  Didn't I meet their live archiver?
[05:55.310 --> 05:55.730]  We...
[05:55.730 --> 05:56.970]  We met their live archiver.
[05:57.150 --> 05:57.690]  He was...
[05:57.690 --> 06:03.070]  He was archiving live so that those shows could be made available fairly soon after they were done.
[06:03.430 --> 06:03.510]  Yep.
[06:03.550 --> 06:05.930]  Which is a kind of amazing technology.
[06:06.130 --> 06:06.450]  Well, that's...
[06:06.450 --> 06:11.770]  That's something we do for all the talks for the conference, too, is there's DVDs burned pretty much right after every talk.
[06:11.890 --> 06:15.330]  There's DVDs burned and, you know, since you brought it up...
[06:15.330 --> 06:16.650]  Since we brought it up.
[06:16.650 --> 06:18.350]  Today is a fundraising show.
[06:18.570 --> 06:23.310]  And you, the listener, can get all of the DVDs from Hope No.
[06:23.390 --> 06:23.610]  9.
[06:23.770 --> 06:25.170]  That's over 100 DVDs.
[06:25.670 --> 06:26.430]  Give us a call.
[06:26.530 --> 06:28.550]  212-209-2950.
[06:28.830 --> 06:29.710]  Pledge $150.
[06:30.350 --> 06:32.030]  And you can get all the talks.
[06:32.170 --> 06:33.210]  Now, I was at the conference.
[06:33.330 --> 06:34.710]  All of us were at the conference.
[06:34.870 --> 06:41.810]  And it's totally impossible that any of us could have seen more than a third of those talks because there were three tracks going on at all times.
[06:41.810 --> 06:42.010]  Yep.
[06:42.130 --> 06:47.250]  And most of us were doing things, you know, helping run the conference, but also, you know, sleeping and eating.
[06:47.450 --> 06:50.950]  So even the third of the talks was not possible to have seen.
[06:52.390 --> 06:58.550]  But I'm considering pledging for this set because I want to see some talks, more talks than I had time to see at the conference.
[06:58.870 --> 06:59.070]  Okay.
[06:59.230 --> 07:05.450]  I'm going to have to interrupt you for just a moment because there is a dripping, wet creature entering the studio.
[07:05.450 --> 07:06.750]  I'm not sure what this is all about.
[07:06.750 --> 07:11.890]  I'm seeing tentacles and they're under a hat that says San Andreas on it.
[07:11.930 --> 07:11.990]  Yeah.
[07:12.070 --> 07:14.330]  You know, actually, it wasn't so bad outside.
[07:14.330 --> 07:16.650]  It was kind of cool, actually.
[07:16.910 --> 07:17.390]  It wasn't so bad.
[07:17.390 --> 07:18.750]  Since the storms appeared.
[07:19.290 --> 07:23.710]  But what wasn't cool was the way New York City infrastructure handled it.
[07:25.350 --> 07:28.630]  Mass flooding and roads closed and things like that.
[07:29.090 --> 07:32.030]  And you notice that we've invented a sauna in here in your absence.
[07:32.150 --> 07:32.810]  Well, Jesus Christ.
[07:32.810 --> 07:33.830]  What is going on in here?
[07:33.890 --> 07:35.130]  It's like 95 degrees.
[07:35.130 --> 07:35.690]  Why?
[07:36.210 --> 07:37.950]  What is wrong with this country?
[07:37.970 --> 07:38.790]  We're going to finish.
[07:39.110 --> 07:39.510]  We can't keep comfortable.
[07:39.850 --> 07:40.630]  It's horrible.
[07:40.650 --> 07:41.270]  It really is.
[07:41.830 --> 07:45.030]  So, yes, I'm surprised how few people are here.
[07:45.070 --> 07:48.330]  But I guess with this tropical temperature inside, it would keep people away.
[07:48.850 --> 07:55.510]  But considering what we just went through this weekend with the Hope Conference, usually we have a whole lot of people that stick around.
[07:55.510 --> 07:57.510]  But maybe people were eager to get away.
[07:58.470 --> 08:02.570]  Well, some of our colleagues have gone on to further things away.
[08:02.570 --> 08:08.850]  I know Johannes from Monochrome just fled the country to go up and promote his new Sierra Zulu movie.
[08:09.150 --> 08:10.410]  Well, he's not from the country.
[08:10.510 --> 08:11.170]  He's not from the country.
[08:11.210 --> 08:12.570]  But, you know, he spends time here.
[08:12.630 --> 08:13.510]  He told me some fascinating things about it.
[08:13.510 --> 08:15.230]  You can still flee the country if you're not from it.
[08:15.230 --> 08:15.690]  Yeah, he did.
[08:15.730 --> 08:18.070]  And he went up to Montreal and he was promoting there.
[08:18.070 --> 08:23.530]  I think maybe he's now back and he's doing a tour to promote his talk.
[08:23.750 --> 08:24.070]  Interesting.
[08:24.190 --> 08:24.850]  Or his movie, by the way.
[08:24.990 --> 08:25.230]  Wow.
[08:25.430 --> 08:26.530]  That's cool.
[08:27.210 --> 08:35.810]  You folks have talked about what the Hope Conference is all about and what was happening this past few days, I guess.
[08:35.850 --> 08:37.410]  Well, it's still going on for me, but...
[08:37.410 --> 08:48.250]  We started getting into it, and I think we barely scratched the surface, but just mentioning how many talks we've had, how much we've had going on as compared to even our previous conferences.
[08:48.350 --> 08:52.950]  And I should point out that what Mike was saying a few moments ago was completely true.
[08:52.950 --> 08:53.730]  And this is...
[08:54.370 --> 08:55.870]  It's a very limited thing.
[08:56.210 --> 08:56.510]  Hang on.
[08:56.810 --> 08:57.670]  There's an argument going on.
[08:57.730 --> 08:57.910]  Hold on.
[09:01.970 --> 09:12.390]  Okay, I think we stumbled upon one of the unscheduled tracks that was going on during...
[09:14.990 --> 09:19.310]  It sounds like you, but I'm told it wasn't you by the person who recorded this.
[09:27.890 --> 09:29.290]  Yeah, you see, that's not you, right?
[09:30.130 --> 09:30.870]  That's not you guys.
[09:30.930 --> 09:31.590]  It sounds like you.
[09:31.670 --> 09:32.350]  I agree.
[09:32.510 --> 09:33.550]  I don't remember hearing this before.
[09:33.650 --> 09:35.010]  It's really funny how much it sounds like me.
[09:35.030 --> 09:38.110]  Unless you're having conversations with a different face in rooms that you don't remember.
[09:38.430 --> 09:39.890]  But that was one of the cool things.
[09:40.230 --> 09:41.310]  Well, that might be me.
[09:41.410 --> 09:43.770]  The little announcement noise in the background.
[09:43.790 --> 09:45.830]  Well, the musical noise came from the prisoner.
[09:45.830 --> 09:50.130]  But now we're by the elevator bank on the 18th floor.
[09:50.490 --> 10:10.810]  And what's happening here is that our roving microphone is moving around the conference and I believe walking past the 2600 store into the main area where people are listening in captivation to one of the talks.
[10:10.810 --> 10:13.910]  Did we get hijacked by This American Life?
[10:14.170 --> 10:14.570]  No, not yet.
[10:14.570 --> 10:16.330]  Well, suddenly we're all about ambient sound.
[10:17.130 --> 10:18.170]  Well, it's not really ambient.
[10:18.310 --> 10:19.410]  It's more in the forefront.
[10:20.110 --> 10:22.750]  In fact, I feel like we're being drowned out by sounds of hope.
[10:32.030 --> 10:37.990]  Of course, if you go to a hope conference, many times it's all about what you hear in the hallways, what's going on between the talks.
[10:38.650 --> 10:43.110]  But the talks went on as well and there were so many of them and they were all really...
[10:43.110 --> 10:43.610]  Oh, it's Bernie.
[10:43.630 --> 10:44.270]  Listen to this.
[10:44.550 --> 10:46.250]  He's a pretty well-known cartoonist.
[10:48.130 --> 10:48.270]  Sorry.
[10:50.610 --> 10:52.310]  Which one are you guys using?
[10:52.750 --> 10:55.290]  The program or the hardware?
[10:55.630 --> 10:56.310]  That's the hardware.
[10:56.630 --> 10:57.570]  20 bucks on the deal.
[10:59.890 --> 11:06.610]  I believe this is by the ham radio section which operated throughout the entire weekend.
[11:07.250 --> 11:09.690]  I know that the bit-up is supposed to be a lot better.
[11:22.240 --> 11:23.700]  Now that's a familiar voice.
[11:25.140 --> 11:25.920]  I got it.
[11:26.340 --> 11:27.720]  Thanks for pissing off my girlfriend.
[11:28.820 --> 11:29.680]  This is my favorite.
[11:30.200 --> 11:33.420]  Yes, now we're in the middle of the Steve Rombaum talk which took place on Saturday nights.
[11:33.440 --> 11:34.140]  Now you can date this.
[11:34.220 --> 11:35.740]  You can see exactly when it happened.
[11:35.900 --> 11:43.000]  So this is just a small taste of what the hope conference was all about just by walking around the hallways, which is something I don't think we ever captured before.
[11:43.680 --> 11:50.700]  What we usually capture are the talks themselves and talk about that as if that's the only part of the conference.
[11:50.840 --> 11:54.380]  Yeah, we have over a hundred talks but there is so much more going on.
[11:54.460 --> 11:58.200]  So many more memories that were made that weekend.
[11:58.860 --> 12:00.280]  And like I said, it's still going on.
[12:00.380 --> 12:08.560]  We're still returning things and catching up with people and evening the score in various ways and still finishing things with the hotel.
[12:08.560 --> 12:10.480]  But it's pretty much over now.
[12:10.620 --> 12:11.160]  Pretty much over.
[12:11.280 --> 12:13.000]  And it was really good.
[12:13.040 --> 12:13.820]  It was so much fun.
[12:14.880 --> 12:17.040]  Very tiring for those of us organizing it.
[12:17.140 --> 12:19.560]  And Gus, I'm not sure how much you've talked about the concerts.
[12:19.640 --> 12:20.780]  But boy, they were pretty amazing too.
[12:20.800 --> 12:25.340]  I walked in there a couple of times on Friday and Saturday night on the first floor of the hotel.
[12:25.400 --> 12:26.600]  And I just saw this.
[12:26.660 --> 12:34.240]  It reminded me, not that I was there, but it reminded me of those early concerts by the Beatles in Hamburg, a little tiny club where people were dancing up and down.
[12:34.480 --> 12:39.840]  And you somehow set up a stage down there and it just looked really real.
[12:40.100 --> 12:41.380]  You know, like this is a club.
[12:41.760 --> 12:46.500]  They were playing, you know, chip tunes, 8-bit music and various things like that.
[12:46.640 --> 12:50.640]  And, you know, we've tried this before, but it's never really worked as well as this.
[12:50.760 --> 12:51.920]  So congratulations on that.
[12:51.980 --> 12:53.960]  Well, I have a lot of people to thank for that.
[12:54.060 --> 12:57.700]  I mean, the AV team was just really gung-ho.
[12:57.700 --> 12:59.640]  They said, we'll set up a couple of colored spots for you.
[12:59.740 --> 13:03.020]  And I get down there and there's like a pretty full lighting stage thing.
[13:03.100 --> 13:10.600]  And then we had some back lighting on the artist that looked really, really cool because sort of lit the underside of them up with various colors.
[13:11.160 --> 13:12.420]  And so everything was really lit.
[13:12.480 --> 13:18.720]  And we had a photographer there, Marjorie Becker, whose Flickr stream I definitely recommend checking out to get a picture of what it was like.
[13:18.900 --> 13:25.200]  Because she just captures, without using a flash at all, which is how she captures the great lighting of these things, she captures these colors.
[13:25.200 --> 13:33.440]  And the visualists for a chiptune concert will do the stuff that sort of, you know, looks like a broken video game console or like houndstooth check or something like that.
[13:33.500 --> 13:34.840]  A lot of very geometric patterns.
[13:35.080 --> 13:39.740]  And it all sort of comes together to make a really distinctive visual.
[13:40.080 --> 13:45.760]  And I was there this year wearing something the first night that I made out of electro-luminescent wire.
[13:45.760 --> 13:59.460]  I wanted to sort of like highlight dancing in my body while I was dancing by making these things that I was soldering just frantically on Friday and the days leading up to the conference so that I could wear it.
[13:59.600 --> 14:01.220]  So that was sort of part of the visuals.
[14:01.320 --> 14:09.120]  And then also my second night I actually had gone up to Harlem and grabbed some African prints that I thought really worked well with the visuals.
[14:09.260 --> 14:13.740]  So I was actually dancing with those in front of the visuals and being lit from behind by the lighting stuff.
[14:13.740 --> 14:16.240]  And it was just really a lot of fun visually to work on that stuff.
[14:16.240 --> 14:18.600]  Yeah, it definitely hit me.
[14:18.680 --> 14:21.060]  And I wasn't expecting... I didn't know what to expect to be honest.
[14:21.160 --> 14:22.320]  And it was really cool.
[14:22.400 --> 14:24.380]  And I know a lot of people there had tons of fun too.
[14:24.560 --> 14:26.260]  Yeah, and this was a full-fledged concert too.
[14:26.360 --> 14:29.420]  I mean, people who weren't going to the conference came in just for this.
[14:30.800 --> 14:32.640]  And I think we had a good amount of that.
[14:32.720 --> 14:35.300]  And then some of those people I think went on to check out the rest of the conference.
[14:35.300 --> 14:39.740]  I think we had more people showing up for different things at this conference, which is good.
[14:39.880 --> 14:44.600]  You know, you have your own projects going on and it all sort of melds together to form Hope No.
[14:44.660 --> 14:44.820]  9.
[14:44.820 --> 14:51.160]  It reminds me of the German and Dutch camps, where you have so many different people coming from around the world doing their own thing.
[14:51.260 --> 14:53.760]  And it forms the collective package.
[14:54.080 --> 14:59.280]  And we had... you know, the artists that I brought in, some of them spoke, some of them also played at the Chiptune concerts.
[14:59.400 --> 15:02.040]  They were really, you know, running the gamut of all the roles there.
[15:02.640 --> 15:07.040]  But one or two of them came up to me afterwards and they were like, I'm definitely coming next time and I'm bringing more artists.
[15:07.160 --> 15:12.380]  So I think we can expect to see more sort of creative folks who are not necessarily primarily technical.
[15:12.780 --> 15:15.700]  And, of course, you'll be able to catch all of this in the talks.
[15:15.860 --> 15:17.820]  Like, you know, the artists brought their discussions.
[15:18.000 --> 15:21.480]  One of our guys was talking about using radios to contact the dead, which was awesome.
[15:21.620 --> 15:23.240]  That was an amazing talk.
[15:23.560 --> 15:23.760]  Yes.
[15:23.840 --> 15:26.040]  He was sort of following all these people in the history.
[15:26.140 --> 15:32.300]  The history that goes back just generations and decades of people listening to Radio Static and imagining there were voices in it.
[15:32.800 --> 15:36.160]  So he did a workshop so people could hands-on learn how to do that.
[15:36.540 --> 15:38.560]  And he also did a talk.
[15:38.560 --> 15:44.220]  So if you go for the package of all of the Hope Talks for the Pledge Drive today, you'll get his talk.
[15:44.300 --> 15:47.460]  You'll get a talk about artists and hacking and all kinds of other amazing stuff.
[15:47.560 --> 15:47.560]  Everything.
[15:47.560 --> 15:48.020]  You'll get everything.
[15:48.020 --> 15:49.280]  We're going to give you a highlight in a second.
[15:49.320 --> 15:52.840]  Right now we're on the elevator riding down to the second floor from the 18th floor.
[15:52.980 --> 15:53.480]  Let's listen.
[15:54.680 --> 15:55.040]  Yeah.
[15:55.620 --> 15:56.880]  That's why they gave the heads out.
[16:00.260 --> 16:00.620]  Okay.
[16:00.780 --> 16:02.420]  There were only a few people on the elevator at that time.
[16:02.600 --> 16:03.520]  Can you give a talk last year?
[16:04.160 --> 16:04.340]  Yeah.
[16:04.360 --> 16:04.960]  In the nut room?
[16:05.360 --> 16:05.760]  The nut room?
[16:06.260 --> 16:06.440]  Yeah.
[16:06.900 --> 16:08.000]  That was a good talk.
[16:08.340 --> 16:09.760]  Did you get out doing it again this year?
[16:10.100 --> 16:10.260]  No.
[16:10.400 --> 16:15.160]  And it's funny because someone just recognized Kyle on the elevator and Kyle just walked in.
[16:15.500 --> 16:15.700]  Hi.
[16:15.820 --> 16:15.940]  Hi.
[16:16.860 --> 16:17.460]  How you doing?
[16:17.700 --> 16:18.760]  Now we're in the mezzanine.
[16:18.880 --> 16:19.520]  It doesn't go too long.
[16:23.480 --> 16:24.700]  There's a lot of activity on the mezzanine.
[16:24.840 --> 16:30.480]  This is where all the vendors were and all the activity hub of the hackerspace village.
[16:32.920 --> 16:34.720]  The hardware hacking section.
[16:34.960 --> 16:35.720]  The lock pickers.
[16:37.040 --> 16:37.560]  Wow.
[16:40.720 --> 16:43.320]  But like we said, it's also about the talks.
[16:43.580 --> 16:47.320]  Let's listen to a highlight of one of the talks of which you will get all of them.
[16:47.500 --> 16:49.800]  And this is something I have to say right now.
[16:49.800 --> 16:56.980]  Now, this price is not going to be the normal price at all when we actually do start offering the DVDs.
[16:57.040 --> 16:58.340]  This is something we're only doing tonight.
[16:58.340 --> 17:00.800]  We have a limit of 20 of these packages.
[17:01.540 --> 17:09.520]  And it's it's every talk, every single hope talk that took place this past weekend over 100 DVDs for a pledge of $150.
[17:09.680 --> 17:11.060]  We do the division on that.
[17:11.180 --> 17:12.580]  It's it's really cheap.
[17:12.620 --> 17:13.840]  I'm not going to try to do that myself.
[17:13.960 --> 17:14.880]  My head can't do it right now.
[17:14.880 --> 17:17.460]  But 212-209-2950.
[17:17.480 --> 17:30.540]  This is one of the talks or a very brief excerpt from one of the talks from someone that, Gus, you were you were very instrumental in in bringing to our conference, talking about the second law of robotics.
[17:30.900 --> 17:33.800]  And you want to tell us something about the about all this?
[17:33.860 --> 17:35.120]  Because I know there's a lot of press.
[17:35.400 --> 17:42.440]  Yeah, I came away from what I said right after this talk was given was that was your Sunday morning homily from Evan Moglin.
[17:42.440 --> 17:46.740]  Evan Moglin is the guy who one of the guys who helped write the GNU public license.
[17:46.940 --> 17:48.220]  I think he worked on GPL three.
[17:48.860 --> 17:54.000]  He is the lawyer from the software freedom law foundation or sense of a freedom law center.
[17:55.420 --> 18:07.800]  He basically inspired diaspora with a talk he gave at NYU a couple years ago by telling everybody how problematic he thought it was from a legal standpoint that Facebook had so much of your personal data.
[18:07.800 --> 18:13.580]  And he's also working on a thing called the freedom box, which is a little server that you plug into your own wall.
[18:13.620 --> 18:15.960]  So you have control over your own files.
[18:16.240 --> 18:20.680]  And this talk he everybody says he speaks in paragraphs.
[18:20.720 --> 18:24.500]  He just did not have a single piece of paper in front of him.
[18:24.680 --> 18:26.900]  And he riffed like a preacher.
[18:27.040 --> 18:27.880]  It was astounding.
[18:27.880 --> 18:30.240]  Okay, let's let's take a listen here.
[18:30.920 --> 18:33.960]  And I always get the pronunciation on Eben Moglin.
[18:34.040 --> 18:34.920]  Moglin, yes.
[18:35.480 --> 18:44.020]  One of over 100 DVDs that you will get for pledging $150 tonight only 212-209-2950.
[18:44.280 --> 18:46.960]  And this took place just a couple of days ago on Sunday.
[18:47.120 --> 18:48.720]  Let's listen to some highlights.
[18:50.120 --> 18:58.780]  But what we have to do, beyond all the stuff we're good at, is to do the thing that human beings haven't been good at so far.
[18:58.960 --> 19:08.680]  We have to be really alive to the danger and we have to teach people that safety must be put in now, after we've already launched the boat.
[19:08.680 --> 19:09.440]  Preach.
[19:10.000 --> 19:11.340]  Well, okay.
[19:11.760 --> 19:13.180]  Preaching is part of it.
[19:14.620 --> 19:19.120]  But preaching is effective where there's adequate dogma.
[19:19.300 --> 19:23.460]  That is to say, where we really understand the doctrine of what we're preaching.
[19:23.680 --> 19:26.980]  And so we have a little intellectual heavy lifting to do.
[19:27.160 --> 19:31.200]  What does it really mean to talk about hurting people?
[19:32.440 --> 19:39.100]  What does it really mean to talk about not hurting people or guaranteeing non-hurt to people?
[19:39.320 --> 19:49.300]  In this complex environment in which, one, the robot's cognition has to be reduced to the level of our desire.
[19:49.300 --> 19:52.280]  It should not be listening to me when I didn't tell it to.
[19:52.700 --> 19:57.220]  It shouldn't be informing people of my location when I haven't said it can.
[19:57.440 --> 19:58.700]  And so on.
[19:58.700 --> 20:08.540]  But where that dialogue cannot possibly consist of punching okay or no on dialogue boxes on something every tenth of a second through a lifetime.
[20:09.500 --> 20:14.760]  We need to understand what services can be safely offered and which ones can't.
[20:14.900 --> 20:22.860]  Or rather, how service design itself must be altered in order to produce safety for users.
[20:24.820 --> 20:35.900]  Location-directed or location-aware or location-based services are terribly important and terribly dangerous.
[20:36.460 --> 20:47.140]  And the primary problem is the real-time ascertainment of the location of human beings by those with power.
[20:48.100 --> 20:54.000]  It does very little good, in other words, to describe regulatory approaches to such services.
[20:54.480 --> 21:01.060]  Because the regulatory approach will always be engineered by government to say, you shouldn't do this unless you're us.
[21:02.020 --> 21:04.920]  Or, you shouldn't do this unless we want you to.
[21:04.920 --> 21:15.500]  Or, you shouldn't do this unless there's a court order or other authoritative communication telling you to start turning over real-time location data about human beings.
[21:16.540 --> 21:18.100]  The very senior U.S.
[21:18.200 --> 21:42.380]  government official who told me back in March, well, we've learned now that we need to have a robust social graph of the United States, is reflecting the learning of all the governments on Earth in the last 14 months, when with great suddenness they all discovered that what they wanted was a robust social graph of their societies.
[21:42.380 --> 21:46.220]  You understand, of course, that we could put this in plain English for the people around us.
[21:46.360 --> 21:52.760]  We could say, this means the United States government intends to keep a list of everybody every American knows.
[21:55.220 --> 21:58.660]  That's not what we used to quaintly refer to as a free society.
[21:59.760 --> 22:02.840]  In fact, that's what I would call a dangerous neighborhood.
[22:05.080 --> 22:19.680]  And in that dangerous neighborhood, which it may not be possible to prevent ourselves from living in, unless we learn how to exercise democracy really effectively about this, which is gonna mean a lot of preaching and a lot of teaching.
[22:20.200 --> 22:31.260]  But in that very dangerous neighborhood, we have to understand that things that inform at headquarters where we are, are serious problems.
[22:33.100 --> 22:41.440]  I must admit that I find it kind of reassuring how naively confident Americans are.
[22:42.760 --> 22:52.840]  As I grew up to manhood and I started traveling around the world, I discovered that in most of, indeed, all of the societies I went to except my own, people didn't really think that what they said on the telephone was private.
[22:55.380 --> 22:58.960]  And my friends in the Soviet Union were particularly aware of this, of course.
[22:59.660 --> 23:04.060]  I was, too, when I lived there briefly, in the late 70s.
[23:06.080 --> 23:26.020]  What seems to me so amazing is that it is possible to sell people a thing and say, you've got a personal assistant inside this object, and you can talk to her, her, of course, in English, and say whatever you want, and we'll take it back to some warehouse data center somewhere,
[23:26.080 --> 23:28.320]  and then we'll send you an answer and tell you what to do.
[23:29.860 --> 23:32.820]  If the KGB had tried this, it would not have worked.
[23:38.040 --> 23:40.040]  Alright, that's pretty powerful stuff there.
[23:40.480 --> 23:48.320]  And it's yours for a pledge of $150, along with every other talk at the Hope Conference, but only for the next 35 minutes.
[23:48.320 --> 23:56.440]  And that's... so we're talking not just that talk, but maybe at least a dozen other talks that directly support that, talking about things that the government is actually doing.
[23:56.440 --> 23:58.520]  We're not talking crazy tinfoil hack conspiracy theories.
[23:58.660 --> 24:02.340]  We're talking about things they're actually doing, from actual lawyers who know what's going on.
[24:03.060 --> 24:06.320]  And you'll hear about similar and related topics like drones.
[24:06.420 --> 24:07.860]  I think we had two panels on drones.
[24:08.080 --> 24:10.220]  We had a couple of panels on the Arab Spring.
[24:10.800 --> 24:18.160]  I mean, we just had an amazing, amazing range of stuff that is hugely interesting, even if you have no interest whatsoever in technology.
[24:18.480 --> 24:21.840]  This is going to be a basic education in all kinds of stuff that's going on right now.
[24:21.880 --> 24:25.160]  We opened so many eyes, too, by bringing all these people together.
[24:25.400 --> 24:33.820]  And it's great to see people who had no background in this, just an interest, wanted to go to the talks and see what it was all about.
[24:33.840 --> 24:37.660]  And we saw people who were just basically staying for so many different talks.
[24:37.660 --> 24:40.480]  I mean, as organizers, we couldn't do that.
[24:40.680 --> 24:41.900]  We couldn't relax.
[24:42.120 --> 24:46.620]  We had to constantly be running around and restocking things and making sure people were in the right place.
[24:47.040 --> 24:51.960]  But I saw a lot of people that had come from various parts of the world, and they were riveted.
[24:52.080 --> 24:55.880]  They were riveted by the speakers and just by the content.
[24:56.060 --> 24:57.300]  And I know it's going to change lives.
[24:57.420 --> 25:03.240]  I know it's going to open up some eyes and result in people talking to each other who have never talked to each other before.
[25:03.240 --> 25:04.960]  And I think that's pretty cool.
[25:04.960 --> 25:06.980]  Yeah, you really felt it going on.
[25:07.340 --> 25:10.960]  When I would walk by on the 18th floor, I would just walk by.
[25:11.040 --> 25:11.820]  I see the door open.
[25:11.940 --> 25:13.100]  You see somebody close it.
[25:13.260 --> 25:15.180]  The lighting, everything was just perfect.
[25:15.860 --> 25:18.380]  And you knew serious things were going on.
[25:18.500 --> 25:29.240]  People were really getting into the issues and breaking things open and just having really interesting discussions and probably being challenged a bit by the audience and questions and stuff.
[25:29.240 --> 25:29.740]  Oh, great questions.
[25:29.760 --> 25:34.380]  Yeah, lots of back and forth and people really paying attention on so many talks.
[25:35.040 --> 25:38.320]  Again, just to point out, 212-209-2950.
[25:38.320 --> 25:42.680]  That's the phone number to call to get a full DVD set of the just-concluded Hope No.
[25:42.780 --> 25:43.420]  9 conference.
[25:43.620 --> 25:45.920]  This is a one-time offer only this hour.
[25:46.140 --> 25:55.640]  It will not be offered next hour, next week, next month, ever again because it's ridiculously low, over 100 DVDs for a pledge of $150.
[25:56.040 --> 25:56.560]  And the DVDs?
[25:56.560 --> 25:58.080]  212-209-2950.
[25:58.300 --> 25:58.700]  The DVDs?
[25:58.700 --> 26:00.880]  The DVDs, if you're buying them online, normally go for what?
[26:01.040 --> 26:01.420]  Was it $10?
[26:01.700 --> 26:03.580]  I don't actually know what they...
[26:03.580 --> 26:05.000]  They go for a lot more.
[26:05.140 --> 26:05.200]  But significantly more.
[26:05.560 --> 26:06.180]  Significantly more.
[26:06.320 --> 26:06.740]  I do know that.
[26:06.900 --> 26:10.740]  We don't want to give out exact prices, but it would be probably at least double.
[26:10.900 --> 26:12.040]  At least double, if not more.
[26:13.080 --> 26:13.780]  So, go ahead.
[26:13.780 --> 26:19.760]  I was just going to add that the production quality, as we've said before, when we talk about some of the archiving projects, this was right up there.
[26:19.860 --> 26:26.380]  We had our same group that handles the capturing of the stuff at the event.
[26:26.520 --> 26:30.380]  And then, again, the production quality, as I alluded to, the lighting and everything was just right.
[26:30.640 --> 26:32.720]  So, these are really interesting.
[26:32.920 --> 26:35.740]  You get to see and hear exactly what went on.
[26:35.880 --> 26:40.280]  And I'm sure this was said before, even if you were there, you probably didn't see everything.
[26:40.420 --> 26:41.000]  No, of course not.
[26:41.000 --> 26:45.840]  This is the entirety of it, and it's a real treat, and we're offering it here tonight on WBAI.
[26:45.840 --> 26:49.840]  If you are one of those people that actually did go to talks all the time, you didn't see everything.
[26:50.160 --> 26:50.220]  Correct.
[26:50.220 --> 26:55.860]  You couldn't have seen more than one-third if you stayed up from dawn to dusk and beyond to see that.
[26:55.920 --> 26:56.760]  And it was great seeing that.
[26:56.800 --> 27:07.660]  I saw everybody from older people to kids just basically going from one talk to another and having a great time just learning and communicating and things like that.
[27:08.560 --> 27:12.760]  And, you know, I was inspired so much in years past by conferences and other places.
[27:13.000 --> 27:15.900]  And that's sort of what led me to become involved with this.
[27:16.060 --> 27:23.740]  And it's great to see and wonder what these people might do in the future based on what's going on, you know, this weekend.
[27:23.740 --> 27:24.160]  Yeah.
[27:24.180 --> 27:27.460]  And if you pledge tonight, you could join them.
[27:27.560 --> 27:29.380]  You could be brightened up.
[27:29.580 --> 27:34.520]  You could maybe have a spark of an idea from one of these talks that you see and hear.
[27:35.540 --> 27:36.240]  I just...
[27:36.240 --> 27:36.340]  Yeah, go ahead.
[27:36.340 --> 27:36.920]  I wrote your reporter.
[27:37.040 --> 27:39.840]  I believe he's about to go outside to the streets of New York.
[27:42.500 --> 27:43.220]  This was...
[27:43.220 --> 27:44.820]  We really should have a new recording.
[27:44.820 --> 27:47.240]  Welcome to the Hotel Pennsylvania instead of Hotel California.
[27:47.420 --> 27:52.680]  But yeah, now he's going through the revolving doors, I believe, out into the streets of New York on 7th Avenue.
[28:12.640 --> 28:17.580]  And hackers, of course, took over the streets as well because there were just so many of them all over the place.
[28:17.720 --> 28:21.700]  They were just congregating on the avenues, on the side streets.
[28:21.740 --> 28:28.120]  And it's really cool to just have conversations with passing people and drawing people in to all of this.
[28:28.220 --> 28:39.720]  And for that, we thank the hotel for just being there, for having such an amazing existence in the first place, right across the street from Penn Station, and having all this space inside that we can just take over.
[28:39.960 --> 28:41.880]  We might need to take over more space in the future.
[28:42.060 --> 28:43.000]  It was that big this time.
[28:43.120 --> 28:44.880]  And there was talk of doing just that.
[28:45.060 --> 28:48.280]  Yeah, we were filling parts of the second floor that we weren't filling before.
[28:48.420 --> 28:51.140]  The gallery spread out sort of off to the left of the elevators.
[28:51.860 --> 28:52.980]  And the sixth floor, too.
[28:53.120 --> 28:53.700]  We were filling that.
[28:53.820 --> 28:54.560]  On the sixth floor, yeah, which was great.
[28:54.600 --> 28:57.200]  And that was really the time when everybody was doing more hands-on stuff.
[28:57.420 --> 28:59.660]  So yeah, we're growing, for sure.
[28:59.780 --> 29:03.000]  So you're really going to get a lot more content, I think, going forward.
[29:03.000 --> 29:06.600]  Bernie, I know there was stuff going on on the sixth floor as well.
[29:06.720 --> 29:08.000]  A lot of it you were involved in.
[29:08.080 --> 29:08.960]  How did that go overall?
[29:09.520 --> 29:10.500]  It was really good.
[29:10.720 --> 29:14.840]  We had two separate, fairly large rooms there.
[29:15.060 --> 29:18.560]  One holds about 50 people, the other about 80 people.
[29:18.960 --> 29:20.500]  And I would stop in there from time to time.
[29:20.520 --> 29:31.060]  We had about two dozen workshops, about 24 workshops going on throughout Hope every day, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday all together.
[29:31.060 --> 29:34.520]  And some of them were an hour long, some were two or three hours long.
[29:34.840 --> 29:38.940]  And I stopped in down there a lot on the sixth floor, and there was a lot going on.
[29:39.220 --> 29:42.620]  Unfortunately, we didn't have the resources to archive all those workshops.
[29:42.880 --> 29:44.940]  So those are things you had to really be there for.
[29:45.140 --> 29:46.680]  Maybe in the future we can look into that.
[29:46.840 --> 29:51.520]  But just a tremendous amount of knowledge being transferred to people.
[29:51.520 --> 29:56.720]  And I do want to say, to expand on your point, Bernie, yeah, we weren't able to do that this time.
[29:56.800 --> 30:01.000]  However, we could certainly do that in the future with more people getting involved.
[30:01.000 --> 30:04.160]  And if people were there and they want to get more involved, you can.
[30:04.540 --> 30:07.360]  There's talk of archiving these things.
[30:07.540 --> 30:08.420]  What was the phrase, Kyle?
[30:08.540 --> 30:11.200]  What kind of film archiving technique?
[30:11.560 --> 30:12.780]  2K or something like that?
[30:12.940 --> 30:13.640]  Or 4K?
[30:13.640 --> 30:15.640]  Well, there's some really interesting...
[30:16.360 --> 30:17.160]  Motion picture quality.
[30:17.280 --> 30:23.000]  Yeah, but there's an open source digital cinema project that just narrowly missed coming to the event.
[30:23.200 --> 30:28.480]  And they wanted to bring a bunch of cameras and capture the event in 2K digital cinema.
[30:28.620 --> 30:31.460]  In fact, the entire camera is open source hardware.
[30:31.460 --> 30:42.040]  And we thought that would be a great symbiosis if we could do 2K streams and run a very high-resolution video back downstairs to a server and capture everything live.
[30:42.040 --> 30:45.780]  And perhaps even send it off-site and host it live.
[30:46.000 --> 30:47.320]  But we're not there yet.
[30:47.420 --> 30:54.540]  And so, as you said, I mean, if people were there, if you heard about the conference and you weren't able to go there, come to a 2600 meeting.
[30:54.540 --> 30:57.740]  Maybe get involved in other ways and reach out.
[30:57.860 --> 31:01.580]  Let it be known that you have expertise or skill and join us.
[31:01.680 --> 31:06.520]  Or you can write to hope at hope.net with suggestions, ideas, memories, things like that.
[31:06.600 --> 31:09.540]  If you want to get more involved in the future, we'd like to hear from you.
[31:09.600 --> 31:12.500]  Already people are writing into that address with recollections.
[31:12.600 --> 31:14.660]  And we'll be reading some of those in future weeks.
[31:15.100 --> 31:22.240]  But if you experience something or if you have pictures to share or anything, really, that will help us archive this event, definitely...
[31:22.240 --> 31:25.060]  Or get ready for the next one, definitely write to that address.
[31:25.360 --> 31:30.140]  And what you said, Kyle, really, I want to speak to that, yeah, we're not there yet for these things.
[31:30.280 --> 31:33.280]  But I'm glad we're not there yet because it still gives us some place to go.
[31:33.680 --> 31:38.880]  And, you know, if you accomplish everything and it's all slick and polished and perfect, it's kind of dull, you know?
[31:39.020 --> 31:42.520]  I like for there to be imperfections and things that we can do better.
[31:43.080 --> 31:45.820]  And I think with every conference, we get better.
[31:46.260 --> 31:49.160]  This was, far and away, the best organized.
[31:49.160 --> 31:54.080]  And I say that as a coordinator, watching all the various departments, audio-visual alone.
[31:55.260 --> 32:00.260]  I mean, these guys could put together a rock show in Madison Square Garden across the street.
[32:00.300 --> 32:03.140]  And what they did on a shoestring budget was simply...
[32:03.140 --> 32:06.800]  I think the Guinness Book of World Records should be called just to see what they were able to accomplish.
[32:06.980 --> 32:07.480]  The lighting.
[32:07.840 --> 32:08.580]  Oh, my God.
[32:08.660 --> 32:13.500]  The lighting that Maya put together and her team was simply amazing.
[32:13.500 --> 32:14.600]  I was blown away by that.
[32:14.620 --> 32:15.880]  I wasn't expecting it.
[32:15.880 --> 32:18.940]  And the lighting team in particular really just...
[32:18.940 --> 32:23.520]  They lit the stage and that takes them like 10 minutes, these talented people.
[32:23.680 --> 32:27.560]  So then they make logos for the stage, but they've done that before and they were kind of bored.
[32:27.680 --> 32:29.180]  And they just put lighting everywhere.
[32:29.320 --> 32:36.240]  They lit the registration desk for us so that when you came in, you were under the glare of interrogation lights.
[32:36.320 --> 32:37.120]  That was a lot of fun.
[32:37.180 --> 32:37.480]  That was.
[32:38.380 --> 32:40.700]  And just everything they did was amazing.
[32:40.980 --> 32:42.180]  And it just...
[32:42.180 --> 32:42.520]  I don't know.
[32:42.600 --> 32:43.720]  They didn't coordinate with anyone.
[32:43.840 --> 32:45.340]  They just sort of did it and it was amazing.
[32:45.340 --> 32:45.680]  Yeah.
[32:45.960 --> 32:49.980]  And that's what I like is when people just take it upon themselves to make something happen.
[32:50.140 --> 33:00.080]  You guys, you're worthy of being on the scale of German CCC camps and Congresses because we used to marvel at that and say, how did they possibly put all this together?
[33:00.640 --> 33:02.140]  And I saw it happen.
[33:02.300 --> 33:05.660]  I saw this team put this together in a most incredible way.
[33:06.180 --> 33:06.420]  All right.
[33:06.520 --> 33:07.300]  We do...
[33:07.300 --> 33:14.080]  I wish we had hours and hours to talk about this and we'll continue talking about it in weeks ahead, but we do have a fundraiser tonight and we do have to get people to call in.
[33:14.080 --> 33:15.540]  And I've been seeing a steady stream of calls.
[33:15.660 --> 33:19.600]  So, you know, it's possible we might already be close to our limit, if not past it.
[33:20.160 --> 33:27.260]  We have $150 pledge, which will get you every single hope talk, including the one we're about to play, including excerpt.
[33:27.440 --> 33:28.760]  We're about to play an excerpt from that one.
[33:28.760 --> 33:30.320]  And that is our keynote speaker.
[33:30.420 --> 33:34.120]  One of our keynote speakers, William Binney from the National Security Agency.
[33:34.620 --> 33:35.960]  And what a guy.
[33:36.160 --> 33:43.680]  I knew he was amazing at first, but he's even more amazing now because he just has such a good sense of humor.
[33:43.680 --> 33:52.360]  He is so enlightened and rebellious in his views, but understanding exactly why he believes what he believes.
[33:52.820 --> 33:55.040]  A true American hero, as far as I'm concerned.
[33:55.280 --> 34:06.720]  He basically captivated the audience for about 90 minutes, talking about what happened when he became a whistleblower against the NSA instead of an analyst for the NSA.
[34:06.720 --> 34:11.320]  And how, by doing so, he was protecting the Constitution and various other things.
[34:11.460 --> 34:12.380]  And his confrontation...
[34:12.380 --> 34:17.780]  What we're going to play here is a brief excerpt of the confrontation he had with the FBI when they came to raid his house.
[34:18.480 --> 34:22.340]  You know, these are the kinds of things you hear about in other countries.
[34:22.340 --> 34:23.280]  Doesn't happen here.
[34:23.280 --> 34:24.520]  Well, yeah, it does happen here.
[34:24.600 --> 34:27.260]  And it happens to some really amazing people.
[34:27.320 --> 34:29.100]  You don't hear about this in the newspapers.
[34:29.100 --> 34:33.900]  Have you ever heard the story of William Binney anywhere else except for stations like WBAI?
[34:34.040 --> 34:35.060]  No, you really haven't.
[34:35.060 --> 34:36.700]  Well, now Russia Today has taken an interest.
[34:37.920 --> 34:42.300]  But it's just, I guess, an example of what you can learn at the HOPE Conference.
[34:42.440 --> 34:50.320]  This is one of over 100 DVDs that you will get for a pledge of $150 to 212-209-2950.
[34:50.840 --> 34:52.840]  Again, we have a limit of 20 of these things.
[34:52.960 --> 34:54.000]  So if we're out, we're out.
[34:54.140 --> 34:55.520]  And I'm sorry, that's just the way it goes.
[34:55.720 --> 34:58.640]  It will be available in the future for a much higher price.
[34:58.640 --> 34:59.720]  I can guarantee that.
[34:59.720 --> 35:07.180]  But right now, this is what we are offering as a thank you to you for helping to support this place, this bastion of free speech, WBAI.
[35:07.180 --> 35:09.900]  Again, 212-209-2950.
[35:10.260 --> 35:13.740]  Let's listen to an excerpt from William Binney's keynote at HOPE Number 9.
[35:13.740 --> 35:17.160]  That's just been found, of course, unconstitutional, which it is.
[35:18.040 --> 35:19.900]  And everything they're doing is unconstitutional.
[35:20.020 --> 35:23.360]  That's why they're trying to keep the EFF lawsuit out of the Supreme Court.
[35:23.420 --> 35:27.820]  Because at that point, they're afraid it will be ruled unconstitutional.
[35:27.820 --> 35:30.060]  And their whole house of cards will fall.
[35:31.560 --> 35:33.100]  That's really what's driving them.
[35:34.600 --> 35:42.720]  But at any rate, after that and all the stuff we were doing, they decided to raid us to keep us quiet, threaten us, you know.
[35:43.280 --> 35:46.340]  So we were raided, simultaneously, four of us.
[35:47.100 --> 35:56.300]  By the way, I forgot to mention, we did sign a complaint to the DOD IG's office about all the corruption in NSA and all this feeding.
[35:57.180 --> 36:04.300]  I mean, they provided a hotline that said, you know, if you see waste, fraud, and abuse, you're supposed to report it here.
[36:04.920 --> 36:06.240]  This is government policy.
[36:06.460 --> 36:08.020]  So I said, okay, well, let's do it.
[36:08.240 --> 36:09.960]  So we did.
[36:10.660 --> 36:15.220]  And, of course, they sent the FBI to visit us.
[36:15.900 --> 36:17.900]  In my case, they came in with guns drawn.
[36:18.080 --> 36:19.680]  I don't know why they did that, but they did.
[36:21.500 --> 36:24.700]  I mean, like I said before, I've been shot at.
[36:24.700 --> 36:33.060]  But mostly, I haven't told anybody, but most of the time that I was shot at was by deer hunters when I was out hunting in Pennsylvania woods.
[36:33.560 --> 36:36.240]  And the guys coming down were from New York.
[36:37.640 --> 36:40.040]  I mean, they would shoot at anything.
[36:41.000 --> 36:43.520]  I would hear these bullets come on by my head, you know.
[36:44.260 --> 36:45.200]  Let me get out of here.
[36:45.200 --> 36:49.000]  And I said, I didn't shoot back because I wouldn't miss, you know.
[36:53.680 --> 36:58.660]  So, at any rate, after we got raided by...
[36:59.880 --> 37:02.480]  They came in and took our computers and everything.
[37:03.880 --> 37:07.640]  And then over time, they wanted to keep us continually quiet.
[37:07.640 --> 37:24.680]  This raid, by the way, happened the day after, the second morning after Attorney General Gonzalez's testimony to the Senate, a judiciary committee where he was testifying to these surveillance programs.
[37:24.680 --> 37:30.200]  And what he referred to as the TSP terrorist surveillance program, which was a bunch of programs.
[37:31.660 --> 37:39.020]  And the one that we were talking about spying on Americans, everybody in this country was called Stellar Wind, and he never addressed that one at all.
[37:39.680 --> 37:44.520]  So, they were afraid that we would go to that committee and tell them what he never told them.
[37:45.080 --> 37:47.560]  So, they wanted to keep us quiet in that way, too.
[37:48.320 --> 37:56.580]  That was why they raided us right after his testimony, because they realized that we had a history of visiting committees, you know.
[37:57.420 --> 38:05.760]  Well, since we knew what the program was all about, we probably would take a shot at the Judiciary Committee, since none of the other committees were paying any attention.
[38:07.540 --> 38:20.680]  So, anyhow, that was an experience, but it didn't scare me.
[38:20.840 --> 38:23.460]  What it did was make me mad, all right?
[38:23.780 --> 38:26.100]  I was getting mad while they were still there.
[38:27.320 --> 38:39.900]  In fact, I got so mad, I accused them of being sent there by somebody else, and that, you know, and I said, the reason you're really here is you wanted me to keep quiet about Stellar Wind, and here's what this program does, spying on all Americans, taking all the data in,
[38:40.120 --> 38:42.820]  and I'm explaining this to them on my back porch.
[38:43.600 --> 38:53.700]  And I'm doing it, the head agent there, special agent Paul Marek, who signed the affidavit with a bunch of lies to get the judge to sign it.
[38:53.780 --> 38:55.060]  Little did the judge know, right?
[38:56.900 --> 38:59.860]  And we're still, we're dealing with that.
[39:01.760 --> 39:04.720]  Being quiet is not one thing I'm going to do, by the way.
[39:05.840 --> 39:08.680]  I will not sit here and actually ask you this.
[39:20.040 --> 39:23.480]  Well, and I'm not alone, so you need to know that.
[39:23.600 --> 39:26.780]  There are other people who are with me, like five of us, who came with that.
[39:26.860 --> 39:35.880]  And then we ran into people who were downtown in Washington, GAP and EFF and the ACLU, and we're dealing with, and we're cooperating with all of them, trying to help them too.
[39:37.180 --> 39:38.400]  So we aren't alone.
[39:38.560 --> 39:45.040]  There's a large community out there, which we didn't know at the time, because we, I mean, I was a back, back room guy from NSA who broke codes.
[39:45.140 --> 39:48.100]  You know, I came out and, gee, what's the world really about out here?
[39:48.220 --> 39:48.400]  You know?
[39:49.000 --> 39:50.940]  So this is all new to me.
[39:51.000 --> 39:52.160]  It took me a while to figure this out.
[39:52.160 --> 39:57.380]  But I wasn't going to sit by and let the FBI do what they were doing.
[39:57.620 --> 40:01.200]  So I accused them of many things at my house.
[40:01.520 --> 40:05.420]  And before they left, they had to have a meeting outside my house, because none of the other...
[40:05.420 --> 40:13.120]  See, I caused them a problem when I exposed this highly classified program to all these agents who weren't cleared.
[40:13.780 --> 40:14.220]  Okay?
[40:15.840 --> 40:17.480]  So they have a problem now.
[40:18.260 --> 40:21.280]  And the head agent was the only one who was cleared.
[40:21.660 --> 40:24.520]  Now, you know, he took an oath to defend the Constitution, too.
[40:25.840 --> 40:27.620]  But he wasn't living up to his oath.
[40:27.780 --> 40:33.280]  And I, as I've said before, neither are any people in Congress or anybody in the administration.
[40:33.780 --> 40:36.080]  They're all violating our constitutional rights.
[40:41.380 --> 40:42.700]  So that's why I'm...
[40:43.420 --> 40:46.000]  That's why I'm standing up and saying these things.
[40:46.180 --> 40:48.160]  Because, you know, I just can't let it pass.
[40:48.320 --> 40:50.320]  I mean, these people are basically cowards.
[40:50.460 --> 40:54.720]  I mean, this guy, when I was explaining this to all these other agents, the only thing he could do was look at the floor.
[40:56.000 --> 40:57.020]  I mean, I was watching.
[40:57.060 --> 40:58.780]  I watched the body language, everything, you know?
[40:58.920 --> 41:01.600]  I read more into body language than anything else, so...
[41:02.800 --> 41:05.320]  So it was pretty clear to me that he was ashamed of what he was doing.
[41:05.800 --> 41:07.000]  But he was still doing it.
[41:07.620 --> 41:10.880]  And I told him the Nuremberg, you know, defense doesn't work.
[41:11.600 --> 41:15.560]  Following orders is not, you know, not acceptable.
[41:22.640 --> 41:23.000]  So...
[41:24.380 --> 41:26.780]  So then after that, I decided, well...
[41:26.780 --> 41:29.820]  I mean, we lawyered up right after that raid, so that...
[41:29.820 --> 41:33.280]  And our lawyers are sitting there, you have to be quiet, don't say anything.
[41:33.460 --> 41:35.300]  You know, they'll use it against you, stuff like that.
[41:36.260 --> 41:38.820]  You know, so he was really a strong advocate for...
[41:38.820 --> 41:40.880]  He was an ex-prosecutor, so he was...
[41:40.880 --> 41:42.300]  He was a...
[41:42.720 --> 41:46.720]  He was a strong advocate of saying nothing, so that...
[41:46.720 --> 41:47.940]  You know, we didn't...
[41:47.940 --> 41:51.160]  You didn't give ammunition to the prosecution.
[41:51.560 --> 41:53.200]  Well, there wasn't any ammunition to give him.
[41:53.800 --> 41:56.080]  Except the stuff I would talk about would be...
[41:56.080 --> 41:58.360]  Things they'd have to drag me into court...
[41:58.780 --> 42:00.740]  And charge me with would be...
[42:00.740 --> 42:02.500]  Exposing the crimes they were committing.
[42:03.360 --> 42:03.740]  Right?
[42:03.800 --> 42:05.140]  So I thought that would be a good idea.
[42:06.120 --> 42:07.360]  Let them do that.
[42:08.320 --> 42:09.380]  So at any rate...
[42:10.740 --> 42:13.520]  That was up until 2010.
[42:13.820 --> 42:16.500]  And in 2010, they decided that...
[42:16.500 --> 42:17.940]  Well, they threatened us with...
[42:17.940 --> 42:21.720]  They made one last threat for prosecution against us.
[42:21.720 --> 42:24.100]  It had to do with our Turf Valley Club meeting.
[42:24.920 --> 42:32.440]  And at the Turf Valley Club, We had all the people who they were interested in...
[42:32.440 --> 42:33.320]  Met.
[42:33.480 --> 42:37.420]  What we were trying to do was to address how to solve...
[42:37.420 --> 42:40.860]  And how to approach the solution of Medicare and Medicaid fraud.
[42:42.740 --> 42:45.120]  And the FBI, after their raid...
[42:45.120 --> 42:46.680]  They raided us shortly after that.
[42:46.920 --> 42:49.260]  And that was...
[42:49.260 --> 42:50.060]  And they had...
[42:50.060 --> 42:51.720]  What that gave them was all the...
[42:51.720 --> 42:53.020]  I mean, of course, not that they already...
[42:53.020 --> 42:55.500]  Didn't have all the emails and everything we were sending back and forth.
[42:55.680 --> 42:59.080]  But in the email, we listed the agenda of what we were going to discuss.
[42:59.800 --> 43:01.920]  And a cooperation paper and all that.
[43:02.040 --> 43:03.420]  Which we took off the web, by the way.
[43:04.060 --> 43:05.720]  They called it a conspiracy paper.
[43:05.860 --> 43:07.080]  It was taken directly off the web.
[43:07.080 --> 43:11.460]  So I guess the web is a conspiracy center or something.
[43:12.380 --> 43:13.140]  But at any rate...
[43:16.880 --> 43:17.240]  They...
[43:18.400 --> 43:20.800]  They were planning on doing that.
[43:20.960 --> 43:22.040]  And so I...
[43:22.040 --> 43:23.040]  And our lawyer told that.
[43:23.140 --> 43:25.600]  They were planning on indicting us on that Turf Valley Club meeting.
[43:25.880 --> 43:26.180]  And I...
[43:26.180 --> 43:27.720]  You know, I figured they had all the evidence.
[43:27.740 --> 43:28.660]  Why are they doing that?
[43:28.760 --> 43:31.680]  You know, I said, well, it's a malicious prosecution is the charge.
[43:32.680 --> 43:34.020]  Okay, so I figured...
[43:34.020 --> 43:35.020]  This is when...
[43:35.020 --> 43:35.840]  This is when...
[43:35.840 --> 43:36.240]  This is when I...
[43:36.240 --> 43:37.880]  I explained this on Democracy Now!
[43:38.320 --> 43:38.800]  I...
[43:38.800 --> 43:39.300]  I...
[43:39.900 --> 43:40.980]  I said, well...
[43:40.980 --> 43:41.620]  I know...
[43:41.620 --> 43:43.920]  I know Tom Drake's phone is tapped.
[43:44.320 --> 43:44.640]  Okay.
[43:45.200 --> 43:47.100]  Because he's been indicted already.
[43:48.180 --> 43:48.660]  So...
[43:48.660 --> 43:51.820]  I'm going to call Tom and tell him all the evidence that we have.
[43:53.220 --> 43:53.700]  About...
[43:53.700 --> 43:58.540]  Malicious prosecution that they're trying to get against us on this Turf Valley Club meeting.
[43:58.640 --> 44:01.080]  So I called up Tom and I listed all this stuff, you know.
[44:01.080 --> 44:04.140]  And I figured the FBI couldn't find the data.
[44:04.140 --> 44:05.220]  So I said, well...
[44:05.220 --> 44:07.880]  When you go into the file, you know, you click on the file.
[44:08.280 --> 44:10.480]  And you go down to properties, you know.
[44:11.540 --> 44:12.260]  And you...
[44:12.260 --> 44:14.300]  So I had to explain it over the phone to Tom.
[44:14.500 --> 44:15.260]  Tom didn't say anything.
[44:15.360 --> 44:17.260]  I think he understood what I was doing, but...
[44:17.960 --> 44:22.180]  So after that happened, though, we never heard about the Turf Valley Club again.
[44:23.160 --> 44:26.960]  So then the DOJ decides they're going to offer us letters of immunity.
[44:26.960 --> 44:29.180]  That was Kirk, Weeby, and I.
[44:29.500 --> 44:29.820]  So...
[44:30.640 --> 44:33.960]  They offered us letters of immunity under the condition that...
[44:35.120 --> 44:41.240]  That we would be honest and tell them everything that we discussed at lunches with Tom Drake.
[44:41.360 --> 44:43.920]  Because we had lunches with Tom after he got raided, too.
[44:43.980 --> 44:44.960]  Because we were friends, you know.
[44:45.140 --> 44:50.780]  And just because somebody gets raided by the FBI doesn't make them a non-friend, you know.
[44:50.780 --> 44:53.320]  So we weren't going to throw them away just because of that.
[44:55.820 --> 44:56.180]  So...
[44:57.120 --> 44:57.480]  So...
[44:57.480 --> 44:58.580]  And our lawyer kept...
[44:58.580 --> 44:59.140]  I mean...
[44:59.520 --> 45:01.460]  I will tell you what I told our lawyer.
[45:01.740 --> 45:02.660]  He said...
[45:02.660 --> 45:05.980]  They want to talk to you, and so they'll give you letters of immunity.
[45:06.260 --> 45:06.800]  And I said...
[45:07.340 --> 45:09.980]  You tell those bastards to go piss up a rope.
[45:11.740 --> 45:13.860]  And he said, no, here's a way to...
[45:13.860 --> 45:14.600]  This is...
[45:14.600 --> 45:15.620]  You know, he finally convinced me.
[45:15.640 --> 45:19.900]  He said, well, you know, if you do this, you're off the hook, and it's all done with, and they will never come back.
[45:19.900 --> 45:20.400]  And I said...
[45:20.400 --> 45:21.540]  So I said, okay.
[45:21.840 --> 45:22.280]  So...
[45:22.900 --> 45:25.120]  I couldn't pass up the opportunity, you know.
[45:25.240 --> 45:26.900]  Because when I went to meet these guys...
[45:28.360 --> 45:33.660]  One was the prosecutor, Welsh, who was the same prosecutor in the Stephens, Senator Stephens case.
[45:34.960 --> 45:37.060]  He's also the prosecutor in Tom's case.
[45:37.340 --> 45:38.160]  And he was also...
[45:38.160 --> 45:45.480]  He came in and took over from another prosecutor who was threatening to indict us on that at Turf Valley's thing.
[45:45.480 --> 45:45.940]  So...
[45:46.820 --> 45:50.040]  He was there, and then an FBI person was there.
[45:50.520 --> 45:51.340]  A woman.
[45:51.840 --> 45:53.360]  And then a man who...
[45:53.360 --> 45:54.680]  You know, he kind of...
[45:54.680 --> 45:55.960]  He tried to stay.
[45:56.100 --> 45:56.740]  He was with the FBI.
[45:56.900 --> 46:00.320]  But I knew he was from Q2 from NSA, you know.
[46:01.100 --> 46:01.580]  So...
[46:02.160 --> 46:03.660]  So the three of them were there.
[46:03.840 --> 46:10.020]  And I started off saying, you know, because I wanted to make it clearer how I felt about them.
[46:10.020 --> 46:13.820]  I said, you people do not know how pissed off at you I really am.
[46:15.120 --> 46:16.240]  You know, and then...
[46:16.240 --> 46:18.440]  You know, and then we got into asking questions.
[46:18.580 --> 46:20.300]  I would answer their questions, and I said...
[46:20.300 --> 46:26.760]  And then I got into saying random things like, you know, I was really irritated at all the laws that NSA was breaking.
[46:27.460 --> 46:29.020]  You know, and...
[46:30.000 --> 46:34.060]  This idiot on the end from Q2 said, what laws are those?
[46:34.240 --> 46:35.960]  Well, you know, that was my opening.
[46:35.960 --> 46:36.880]  You know, I...
[46:37.940 --> 46:38.820]  I just...
[46:38.820 --> 46:40.980]  I just had to lay them all out.
[46:42.040 --> 46:43.180]  Including the Constitution.
[46:43.580 --> 46:48.160]  And all he could do at the end of that was look at the prosecutor and none of them could say a word.
[46:48.720 --> 46:50.360]  That's why I say they're all cowards.
[46:51.260 --> 46:53.560]  Sunlight is the solution to these things.
[46:54.040 --> 46:55.800]  And so that's why I'm trying to do that.
[46:57.520 --> 46:57.960]  Thanks.
[47:03.280 --> 47:03.860]  All right.
[47:04.000 --> 47:05.700]  And that's an excerpt from Hope No.
[47:05.800 --> 47:09.800]  9, William Binney, our keynote whistleblower from the NSA.
[47:10.540 --> 47:11.300]  Awesome person.
[47:11.420 --> 47:11.980]  Awesome talk.
[47:12.240 --> 47:20.240]  And something that we were offering here at WBAI just a few minutes ago, I have to say, we reached our max.
[47:20.440 --> 47:21.420]  We got the 20 calls.
[47:21.580 --> 47:22.440]  We've raised $3,000.
[47:22.760 --> 47:26.320]  $3,000 in this hour for the station, which is awesome.
[47:26.360 --> 47:27.720]  And I want to thank everybody for calling in.
[47:28.320 --> 47:32.560]  And also, if you still want to donate to the station, well, we can't offer this anymore.
[47:32.840 --> 47:33.700]  Yeah, we told you.
[47:33.780 --> 47:34.780]  We told you it was going to run out.
[47:34.960 --> 47:35.320]  It did.
[47:35.540 --> 47:37.380]  You know, these things, they're very popular.
[47:37.680 --> 47:42.920]  And, you know, 100 DVDs for a pledge of $150 is a great deal.
[47:43.120 --> 47:46.600]  But it was our donation to the station to keep this place strong.
[47:46.780 --> 47:50.120]  We do have other things that we can donate, just not something that massive.
[47:50.640 --> 47:56.600]  We have, from last week, what we were offering, the Hope Greatest Hits from our first eight Hope conferences.
[47:57.100 --> 48:01.420]  We have a, what is it, a 20 DVD collection for $75?
[48:01.720 --> 48:02.120]  Is that what it was, Nick?
[48:02.120 --> 48:02.660]  Yeah, that's right.
[48:02.720 --> 48:04.820]  And then we have 40 DVDs for $125.
[48:05.340 --> 48:05.640]  All right.
[48:05.780 --> 48:06.940]  Which is still a pretty good deal.
[48:06.940 --> 48:07.780]  It really is.
[48:07.860 --> 48:12.740]  I mean, if you look at what some of those other stations are offering, you'll see how amazing that is.
[48:12.740 --> 48:19.740]  Yes, and we get asked, every week we do something like this, after the fact, by people who listen to us on podcasts and on rebroadcasts and things like that.
[48:19.960 --> 48:21.340]  Can they still get these premiums?
[48:21.420 --> 48:23.220]  The answer to that is, unfortunately, no.
[48:23.300 --> 48:25.960]  We can only offer the stuff we offer during our live broadcast.
[48:26.160 --> 48:36.880]  But if you would like to help keep our show and our station on the air at any other time, you can go to WBAI.org, find the donation link, and select Off the Hook as the show you're donating in the name of.
[48:37.080 --> 48:41.520]  And there are some other premiums that WBAI will give you for doing that.
[48:41.520 --> 48:42.140]  Right, right.
[48:42.140 --> 48:46.680]  And the credit will still go to keep this show specifically on the air.
[48:46.760 --> 48:49.640]  I mean, it would be great if we could offer this all the time, but imagine if we did.
[48:49.640 --> 48:58.840]  Because every time we have to make a 100-DVD set, our robot has to work for days to make one of those sets.
[48:58.980 --> 48:59.940]  It takes a while.
[48:59.940 --> 49:07.300]  So if 24 hours a day people were taking advantage of this, we wouldn't be able to do anything else with the robot, and that would be the end of that.
[49:08.180 --> 49:12.620]  Plus, yeah, it just doesn't make much sense to constantly...
[49:12.620 --> 49:16.520]  It's something that is offered during our show, and we like people to listen to the show live.
[49:16.740 --> 49:19.040]  Your DVD robot, does it obey the three laws?
[49:19.820 --> 49:20.220]  Yes.
[49:20.220 --> 49:25.380]  We're having trouble with the third one, but we'll deal with it.
[49:25.580 --> 49:25.780]  All right.
[49:26.040 --> 49:29.220]  We have joining us another special guest, I understand, on the phone.
[49:29.300 --> 49:30.260]  A special guest, are you there?
[49:31.440 --> 49:31.840]  Yes.
[49:32.200 --> 49:32.600]  Okay.
[49:32.860 --> 49:33.340]  I am here.
[49:33.460 --> 49:34.680]  Would you like to identify yourself?
[49:35.760 --> 49:36.680]  This is Redhack.
[49:37.060 --> 49:37.460]  Redhack.
[49:37.580 --> 49:38.140]  Oh, okay.
[49:38.560 --> 49:38.960]  Great.
[49:39.100 --> 49:40.840]  I'm so flustered, I don't even know who's on the phone.
[49:41.080 --> 49:45.340]  Redhack, you are responsible for the registration system at Hope.
[49:46.700 --> 49:51.080]  Yes, I was responsible for it before, during, and well, I guess there's not much to do after.
[49:51.280 --> 49:54.300]  Good, because I have some complaints for you, and I want you to take responsibility.
[49:54.540 --> 49:55.140]  No, I'm kidding.
[49:55.380 --> 49:58.180]  The registration system was incredibly awesome.
[49:58.180 --> 50:00.700]  I don't know how you did it, but well, tell us some of the highlights.
[50:02.260 --> 50:05.880]  Well, so, I mean, it went as good as it possibly could have.
[50:05.880 --> 50:15.360]  The only time we had any kind of line, I mean, significant wait for any attendees was when our credit card system wasn't working, which is not something that was in our control.
[50:15.700 --> 50:22.360]  But beyond that, people, you know, came, they showed up with their tickets, we checked them in, handed them a badge, and they were off on their merry way.
[50:22.740 --> 50:28.860]  Assuming we didn't harass them too much, which we tried to do, because we were dressed, you know, looking kind of like TSA officers.
[50:28.860 --> 50:36.100]  You know, on that subject, we did have the TSA theme, the Hopeland security theme that we instilled.
[50:36.760 --> 50:37.820]  Now, we have these shirts.
[50:37.940 --> 50:38.500]  I'm wearing one now.
[50:38.560 --> 50:41.300]  I'm surprised you're all not wearing your Hopeland security shirts.
[50:41.740 --> 50:42.720]  I wore mine yesterday.
[50:42.920 --> 50:43.760]  Well, okay, fine.
[50:43.880 --> 50:44.720]  I've been wearing it every day.
[50:45.460 --> 50:45.820]  No.
[50:46.040 --> 50:48.740]  No, I washed it, actually, and it does survive the wash quite well.
[50:49.340 --> 50:56.320]  We had the guy who was cleaning our bathrooms, he was telling everybody that he lost a bet with me, and that's why he was doing it.
[50:56.320 --> 51:01.920]  But the director of Urchin, who cleans bathrooms at Hope, and is more than happy to do this.
[51:01.940 --> 51:03.480]  In fact, I'd be happy to do it myself.
[51:04.900 --> 51:09.080]  He basically was telling me how he was wearing this shirt, this Hopeland security shirt.
[51:09.180 --> 51:15.480]  And somebody in the street came up to him and wanted to know how he could get, what was it, Kyle?
[51:15.660 --> 51:18.380]  Get his ex-wife or something?
[51:18.740 --> 51:20.740]  Yeah, he had some questions about immigration.
[51:20.740 --> 51:21.280]  Yeah.
[51:21.740 --> 51:30.120]  And he was very seriously asking him what he ought to do and how to go about fixing whatever immigration problem he was having.
[51:30.160 --> 51:37.700]  And I guess our friend basically gave him some sound advice, did his best job, as good a job as he could.
[51:37.920 --> 51:39.800]  And then we heard another story last night.
[51:39.920 --> 51:40.040]  Yeah.
[51:40.040 --> 51:40.840]  What was this all about?
[51:41.020 --> 51:45.740]  Yeah, some of the 2600 staff, they were driving out of the city.
[51:45.960 --> 51:50.460]  And they were, I guess, pulled over for like a headlight, you know, and double check with them.
[51:50.620 --> 51:56.120]  And the officer was speaking with them, but had asked them, you know, you work for them.
[51:57.920 --> 51:58.340]  Pointing to the shirt.
[51:58.340 --> 52:03.900]  And they were both wearing their shirts and their vests that we had generated for staff.
[52:04.640 --> 52:07.900]  And they didn't really, they didn't sort of break that.
[52:08.000 --> 52:14.080]  They just said, yeah, we were at a conference, you know, sort of like alluding to some big TSA conference or something.
[52:14.220 --> 52:19.980]  And the guy basically handed them back their stuff, said, you know, fix your headlight and got in his car and left immediately.
[52:20.220 --> 52:22.500]  Like didn't sit there, didn't wait for them to leave, just left.
[52:22.500 --> 52:26.480]  So they see the shirt and they just assume that it's the real thing.
[52:26.600 --> 52:28.700]  Even though if you read it, it's, it's, it's clearly not.
[52:28.920 --> 52:30.200]  Totally wearing this shirt.
[52:30.220 --> 52:31.460]  The next time I fly.
[52:32.220 --> 52:34.660]  The eagle has been replaced with a, you know, like a vulture.
[52:35.000 --> 52:36.240]  Well, yeah, the eagle is a vulture.
[52:36.240 --> 52:36.780]  That's true.
[52:36.920 --> 52:41.380]  But most people don't look at that, especially if, if they're, uh, if they're quickly looking at you.
[52:42.860 --> 52:43.020]  So, so...
[52:44.240 --> 52:44.620]  Yeah.
[52:44.800 --> 52:46.960]  So Redhack, tell us, tell us more about the registration system.
[52:47.020 --> 52:55.660]  I know you said there weren't long lines and at many hacker conferences, uh, people wait in long lines willingly, sometimes for hours at a time.
[52:55.900 --> 52:57.380]  Sometimes that's part of the whole scene.
[52:57.500 --> 52:59.920]  But in our particular case, we, we like to get people moving quickly.
[53:01.260 --> 53:01.620]  Yeah.
[53:01.800 --> 53:08.640]  So basically the, the way that it worked was that, uh, anyone who pre-ordered was, uh, emailed a ticket ahead of time and that ticket had a, uh, a QR code.
[53:09.020 --> 53:11.380]  Um, and those were good for one use only.
[53:11.660 --> 53:17.220]  Uh, what was nice about that was that if you couldn't come, you could sell your ticket to someone else or give it to a friend or whatever and it didn't matter.
[53:18.160 --> 53:24.420]  Um, for people who forgot their code, we had, we had a way to look, look it up by, uh, by name.
[53:24.700 --> 53:30.860]  So, you know, if they had a, uh, photo ID on them and they had actually placed the order, we could, we could get their order for them and give them their badges also.
[53:30.860 --> 53:35.820]  Um, and so, I mean, you know, basically we had volunteer staff in the desk.
[53:35.960 --> 53:38.260]  It was myself, uh, Mike, June, uh, Marquez.
[53:38.860 --> 53:45.440]  And, uh, we, you know, put up the jobs and, and were able to, to handle the, the crowds really quickly.
[53:45.620 --> 53:52.000]  I mean, there was really only, uh, you know, a line that was not, uh, due to the credit card machine at the very, very beginning.
[53:52.360 --> 53:54.820]  Um, you know, the first day, the first hour that we were open.
[53:54.900 --> 53:57.300]  And of course that went, that was gone in a few minutes.
[53:57.300 --> 53:57.680]  Yeah.
[53:58.020 --> 53:58.820]  So, yeah.
[53:59.600 --> 54:05.080]  I also have to say, uh, you know, the security crew and the people, uh, calling for badges.
[54:05.100 --> 54:07.960]  In fact, they're still doing it now from my handstand, uh, in their sleep.
[54:08.140 --> 54:10.540]  Uh, they did a remarkable job of crowd control.
[54:10.660 --> 54:14.380]  In fact, the, the real, uh, TSA could learn a few things from, from these folks.
[54:17.120 --> 54:17.600]  Oh yeah.
[54:18.020 --> 54:18.380]  There we go.
[54:18.520 --> 54:21.760]  I, I just want to say, I, I thought Mark was going to talk a little bit more about the themes.
[54:21.780 --> 54:24.140]  I think with all the elements in place, it was really a lot of fun.
[54:24.140 --> 54:28.060]  And we had, like Mike said, the, the Klieg lights that were, you know, there to interrogate you.
[54:28.280 --> 54:29.480]  We had the announcements.
[54:29.640 --> 54:34.940]  I don't know if you have any audio of the announcements that got made, um, where we were all sort of announcing, you know, horrible security.
[54:35.260 --> 54:36.360]  I don't have recordings of that.
[54:36.500 --> 54:37.820]  Maybe, maybe we can get that.
[54:37.980 --> 54:41.520]  Obviously we have them someplace and we can play that in future shows.
[54:41.660 --> 54:46.520]  There was one more element that, uh, Mark instituted that I thought was hilarious and apparently really worked.
[54:46.660 --> 54:47.560]  Mark, do you want to talk about that?
[54:47.560 --> 54:49.880]  Mark is red hack, by the way, in case people don't realize this.
[54:49.980 --> 54:50.600]  Go ahead, go ahead.
[54:50.600 --> 54:54.260]  You know, uh, I think Gus has, Gus has ruined your handle now.
[54:54.400 --> 54:55.400]  Why don't you just...
[54:55.400 --> 54:56.040]  I have doxxed you.
[54:56.200 --> 54:57.000]  Don't use it anymore.
[54:57.860 --> 54:59.540]  Where are my harakiri knives?
[55:00.640 --> 55:03.140]  I, so I assume you're talking about the box we had?
[55:03.900 --> 55:04.300]  Yes.
[55:05.300 --> 55:05.700]  Gus?
[55:06.380 --> 55:07.940]  Uh, she said yes, but she was off mic.
[55:08.940 --> 55:09.340]  Okay.
[55:09.620 --> 55:16.580]  Yeah, so I mean, we had, we had, uh, as a joke, put a box in front of our desk, uh, that said liquid disposal on it.
[55:17.140 --> 55:21.900]  Um, and it worked really well in our favor because people, I guess maybe they took pity on us because we were sitting there all the time.
[55:22.100 --> 55:28.340]  Uh, they brought by all kinds of beverages and put them in the, uh, in the disposal box for us and then we had free drinks throughout the conference.
[55:28.480 --> 55:29.160]  So that was really nice.
[55:29.580 --> 55:32.560]  I just, I wanted to add, uh, some other things about the theme.
[55:32.700 --> 55:36.880]  It was basically, uh, travel and, uh, and security and TSA.
[55:36.880 --> 55:41.040]  I, the ticket itself, I believe when it was issued to people was, uh, a boarding pass.
[55:41.220 --> 55:53.680]  So it looked like, uh, you're going on a flight and, uh, we had other elements, uh, like the, the basically we wanted to try to have a little bit of security theater involved and, and show sort of the goofy side of, of what that's all about.
[55:54.040 --> 55:57.360]  The fear and whatnot and, and get people to say, Hey, travel's cool.
[55:57.940 --> 55:59.920]  And of course the badges were passports.
[56:01.080 --> 56:01.480]  Yeah.
[56:01.600 --> 56:04.420]  Well, we'll get into that in future weeks because it's just so much to talk about.
[56:04.420 --> 56:06.960]  But yeah, the badges were passports and they were pretty, pretty awesome.
[56:07.600 --> 56:09.340]  And, uh, it was, it was kind of funny actually.
[56:09.340 --> 56:16.920]  We had, we had a couple of international visitors, especially who noticed that on our program, we had said, you have to have your visa certified to get into particular events.
[56:17.120 --> 56:18.760]  Uh, and they were like, is that really true?
[56:18.920 --> 56:21.180]  And they, and they were actually, it wasn't clear which visa.
[56:21.280 --> 56:22.400]  So they thought they had to have their passport.
[56:22.480 --> 56:28.420]  And we were very confused ourselves and we wound up giving out, uh, visas to the wrong people and the wrong people got in.
[56:28.620 --> 56:33.260]  And then, uh, other people saw it and assumed they couldn't get in because it might be too hard.
[56:33.260 --> 56:38.880]  So the crowd control sort of took care of itself because nobody really knew what was going on, just like in real life.
[56:39.060 --> 56:41.960]  One more element that I forgot to mention that I thought was really hilarious.
[56:42.100 --> 56:46.880]  Something on the order of 2 o'clock in the morning, you know, Sunday heading into... Saturday heading into Sunday.
[56:47.040 --> 56:50.540]  I was coming back from being at the concert and a bunch of folks come up to me.
[56:50.620 --> 56:53.980]  They're like, we want to create a fake metal detector, a bunch of Kudmata boxes.
[56:54.160 --> 56:54.960]  Do you have some gaffer tape?
[56:55.060 --> 56:56.340]  And I was like, find some.
[56:56.500 --> 56:57.280]  We must make this happen.
[56:57.420 --> 57:01.420]  So the escalator had something created by the creativity of people who came to the conference.
[57:01.420 --> 57:02.960]  And that's the kind of thing that goes on at Hope.
[57:02.960 --> 57:04.200]  And hopefully there are lots of pictures.
[57:04.380 --> 57:07.440]  Again, write to us if you have memories, ideas, thoughts, feedback.
[57:07.720 --> 57:09.580]  Hope at Hope.net for the conference.
[57:09.600 --> 57:12.880]  And of course, for the radio show, OTH at 2600.com.
[57:12.980 --> 57:14.100]  I want to thank everybody for calling in.
[57:14.160 --> 57:15.100]  We did tremendously tonight.
[57:15.380 --> 57:16.480]  Thanks for your generosity.
[57:16.480 --> 57:19.940]  We'll be back again next week with all kinds of fun and games.
[57:20.540 --> 57:22.120]  Stay tuned for The Personal Computer Show.
[57:22.580 --> 57:23.300]  Have a good night.