[00:00.560 --> 00:02.100]  People are losing their homes.
[00:03.040 --> 00:04.740]  People are losing their life savings.
[00:05.760 --> 00:06.780]  That ain't right, man.
[00:07.320 --> 00:13.460]  We let these giant corporate banking behemoths rob the American people.
[00:13.680 --> 00:16.440]  I want to see a system that works for everyone.
[00:16.800 --> 00:23.880]  It's time for us, as citizenry, to stand up and say, this is unacceptable and we're not going to take it anymore.
[00:24.020 --> 00:26.920]  I want to inform people that capitalism doesn't have to be the way.
[00:26.920 --> 00:28.740]  This country needs an enema.
[00:28.980 --> 00:30.500]  Well, the world needs an enema.
[00:32.180 --> 00:34.000]  And with that, it's 7-0-1.
[00:34.160 --> 00:36.180]  You're listening to WBAR New York.
[00:36.280 --> 00:37.600]  Time once again for Off The Hook.
[00:42.840 --> 00:44.640]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:45.100 --> 00:47.180]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:48.260 --> 00:50.140]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:50.760 --> 00:52.660]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:53.420 --> 00:55.340]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:58.740 --> 01:00.960]  We bombed for the best it's paid for worst.
[01:01.720 --> 01:03.480]  I hope that's understood.
[01:03.640 --> 01:04.520]  One day, let me go!
[01:32.830 --> 01:34.010]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[01:34.110 --> 01:35.050]  The program is Off The Hook.
[01:35.110 --> 01:36.590]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[01:36.590 --> 01:37.910]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[01:38.110 --> 01:38.330]  Hi.
[01:38.470 --> 01:38.930]  Rob T.
[01:39.110 --> 01:39.550]  Firefly.
[01:39.730 --> 01:40.130]  Good evening.
[01:40.370 --> 01:40.970]  And Jim.
[01:41.210 --> 01:41.430]  Hello.
[01:41.670 --> 01:42.250]  In the studio.
[01:42.590 --> 01:44.390]  And somewhere in Pennsylvania, Bernie S.
[01:44.630 --> 01:45.710]  Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[01:45.710 --> 01:47.650]  We have an action-packed show tonight.
[01:47.650 --> 01:49.470]  All kinds of things to discuss.
[01:49.630 --> 01:50.910]  So let's get right into it.
[01:51.430 --> 01:53.650]  First of all, an important announcement.
[01:53.850 --> 01:55.570]  Something that involves our listeners.
[01:56.210 --> 01:58.930]  Next week begins the autumn fundraiser.
[01:59.510 --> 01:59.850]  Yes.
[02:00.090 --> 02:01.490]  We have no control over this.
[02:01.610 --> 02:02.470]  It is autumn now.
[02:02.690 --> 02:06.050]  That's just something that the sun and the earth have arranged.
[02:06.050 --> 02:07.570]  And it happens.
[02:07.750 --> 02:11.870]  And when that happens, we go on the air and we ask for money for an entire month.
[02:12.010 --> 02:19.650]  But it is possible that next week, instead of spending the hour asking for money, we don't have to do any of that.
[02:19.730 --> 02:27.850]  And the reason being, it could be those of you who write to us a lot after fundraising shows asking, How can I contribute too?
[02:27.870 --> 02:28.750]  How can I be a part of this?
[02:28.830 --> 02:31.390]  I listen to the show two days after it's on.
[02:31.450 --> 02:33.330]  Or I listen to the show in a different time zone.
[02:33.490 --> 02:34.850]  And I really want to be included.
[02:34.910 --> 02:35.610]  I want to be a part of this.
[02:35.650 --> 02:36.550]  This is your chance.
[02:36.810 --> 02:38.810]  Because if only 15 of you...
[02:38.810 --> 02:39.770]  Yeah, it's down to 15 now.
[02:39.870 --> 02:41.970]  Only 15 of you call...
[02:41.970 --> 02:55.990]  Actually, go to the website, www.wbai.org and go to the BAI Buddy Program or just go from the link on our main www.2600.com page and pledge $10 a month.
[02:56.670 --> 03:01.490]  If 15 people do that, we don't have to raise funds next week because it makes up for that.
[03:01.910 --> 03:02.710]  See how it works?
[03:02.770 --> 03:03.750]  It's really pretty incredible.
[03:03.930 --> 03:04.550]  Yeah, it's pretty simple.
[03:04.670 --> 03:08.990]  It's the BAI Buddy System and we've been introducing that slowly over the air here.
[03:09.370 --> 03:14.110]  But this is an opportunity to see if it actually works with off-the-hook listeners.
[03:14.310 --> 03:24.170]  If enough off-the-hook listeners contribute in that manner, I believe the number was 20 total to just eliminate an entire day of fundraising for the show.
[03:24.850 --> 03:25.610]  But you know what?
[03:25.630 --> 03:26.470]  It doesn't have to stop there.
[03:26.690 --> 03:31.630]  If another 20 were contributing on top of that, there would be two shows we wouldn't have to do, et cetera.
[03:31.770 --> 03:35.550]  So we can go the whole month without doing fundraising if this system works.
[03:35.590 --> 03:36.970]  And it's such a piddling amount.
[03:37.150 --> 03:38.550]  It really is $10 a month.
[03:38.610 --> 03:39.390]  When you think about...
[03:39.910 --> 03:43.390]  I just had a coffee downstairs and that was practically $10.
[03:43.970 --> 03:45.550]  What kind of coffee are you drinking for $10?
[03:46.130 --> 03:47.230]  I'm not going to get into it.
[03:47.310 --> 04:00.450]  But the point is, a lot of things cost a lot of money or even things that don't cost that much cost more than what we are saying this amount would be significant to us.
[04:00.690 --> 04:04.410]  That significant amount is less than a lot of daily expenses.
[04:04.750 --> 04:06.550]  So that's something to consider.
[04:06.690 --> 04:23.370]  So again, to do this, to be a part of this, just go to the website, www.wbai.org and look for the BAI buddy system, or go to www.2600.com, read the story about how to eliminate on-air fundraising, and just follow those directions.
[04:23.490 --> 04:29.310]  Now it's very important, though, that after you do this, you email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[04:29.410 --> 04:31.750]  Email us and tell us your name, all right?
[04:31.770 --> 04:40.690]  And what we're going to do then is check with the station to make sure that you're real, and that you actually did contribute, and that will be counted against the total that we have to raise.
[04:41.170 --> 04:42.030]  It's as simple as that.
[04:42.110 --> 04:45.510]  Now, if you don't tell us, then we're not going to know, and we won't be able to count it.
[04:45.610 --> 04:51.390]  So you'll be contributing, yes, but it won't count against our fundraising efforts.
[04:51.570 --> 04:54.570]  If you really like listening to us pitch, then you could do that.
[04:55.230 --> 04:55.590]  Yeah.
[04:55.810 --> 04:58.830]  You could become a BAI buddy and decline to tell us.
[04:58.830 --> 05:00.830]  And if we don't make it, that's fine.
[05:00.830 --> 05:02.050]  This is all new to us.
[05:02.150 --> 05:03.410]  We're learning as we go along.
[05:03.410 --> 05:14.490]  But in this day and age of Kickstarters and people showing their mass support throughout the world for various things they believe in, what better purpose than to support WBAI?
[05:14.930 --> 05:15.870]  I can't think of one.
[05:16.990 --> 05:25.670]  So I hope a lot of people contribute and are a part of this because it's definitely something that people power matters.
[05:25.670 --> 05:28.510]  It has mattered so much over the years, over the decades.
[05:29.190 --> 05:35.190]  So once more, we just need another 15 people to go to the website and contribute $10 a month.
[05:35.330 --> 05:35.770]  Oh, you know what?
[05:35.830 --> 05:42.950]  If somebody were to contribute $20 a month, and I think a couple of people have already done that, that means that you count as two people.
[05:43.230 --> 05:55.710]  So if somebody were to actually go in there and contribute $150 a month, I'm not suggesting that, but there are people out there who can afford it, that would mean the whole thing would be over right away.
[05:55.950 --> 05:59.090]  So one person has that power if that's a wealthy person out there.
[05:59.430 --> 06:05.430]  And what happens is the amount gets deducted every month from your credit card or your bank, however that works.
[06:05.850 --> 06:11.390]  It's something that has been experimented with in various organizations, and it's fairly painless.
[06:11.530 --> 06:13.670]  And you get WBAI premiums as well.
[06:13.770 --> 06:16.010]  You can go to their website and find out about that.
[06:16.170 --> 06:16.810]  Yes, indeed.
[06:16.810 --> 06:23.910]  We, as you said, we have been getting notes during fundraisers asking, you know, is there any way around this?
[06:24.070 --> 06:27.350]  You know, because people like hearing us have our regular shows, and we enjoy doing them.
[06:28.030 --> 06:29.030]  So this is it.
[06:29.110 --> 06:30.330]  This is a way we're trying.
[06:30.430 --> 06:31.230]  It's totally experimental.
[06:31.230 --> 06:32.330]  We don't know if it'll work.
[06:32.390 --> 06:32.990]  We hope it will.
[06:33.230 --> 06:35.750]  And the only way it can work is with your help.
[06:35.830 --> 06:45.830]  So if you go to WBAI.org and become a BAI buddy, be our buddy, and you can help us out and get some cool stuff and get membership in the station.
[06:47.350 --> 06:50.410]  And it's really $10 a month.
[06:50.850 --> 06:52.850]  Think of all the things that you spend $10 on in a month.
[06:52.930 --> 06:56.530]  And think if they're cooler than us or not cooler than us.
[06:56.530 --> 06:59.390]  And maybe you can do 20 a month or 25 a month or other amounts.
[06:59.930 --> 07:01.470]  It definitely adds up.
[07:01.590 --> 07:06.150]  And you'll see a difference because, well, we won't be talking about this then.
[07:06.150 --> 07:11.070]  We won't be trying to raise money for the whole hour for the next month.
[07:11.170 --> 07:11.730]  That would be something.
[07:11.870 --> 07:12.530]  That would be amazing.
[07:12.610 --> 07:15.150]  But if we are, you know, let's not look at it as a failure.
[07:15.750 --> 07:17.750]  We're just learning how the whole thing works.
[07:17.850 --> 07:24.590]  But I really think that this is an attractive solution to something that I know bugs people because, well, we don't have commercials.
[07:24.590 --> 07:25.270]  We don't have commercials.
[07:25.390 --> 07:26.650]  We have to get funds somehow.
[07:27.430 --> 07:29.290]  And we don't like, you know, to steal.
[07:30.250 --> 07:31.110]  It's not right.
[07:31.390 --> 07:33.450]  And, you know, we're not going to do that.
[07:34.810 --> 07:37.030]  So asking for help from our listeners, that's the way to do it.
[07:37.330 --> 07:38.910]  I should mention that we're on Wall Street.
[07:39.010 --> 07:41.350]  We may be the only people on Wall Street who feel that way.
[07:41.350 --> 07:42.490]  Yeah, a lot of people steal around here.
[07:42.550 --> 07:43.450]  I see it all the time.
[07:43.470 --> 07:44.750]  It's really kind of sad.
[07:44.890 --> 07:48.030]  Hey, we have some important things to discuss tonight.
[07:48.030 --> 07:49.050]  Other important things.
[07:49.070 --> 07:50.330]  Of course, this is very important as well.
[07:50.870 --> 07:56.050]  But coming up this weekend is something that has happened twice in New York.
[07:56.590 --> 07:58.610]  And we've been a part of it each time.
[07:59.090 --> 08:04.010]  And it's something that we're actually going to be giving away tickets to in just a few minutes as well.
[08:04.770 --> 08:07.290]  And it's happening in Queens.
[08:07.290 --> 08:08.130]  And it's really cool.
[08:08.310 --> 08:09.710]  And thousands and thousands of people show up.
[08:09.770 --> 08:10.970]  Does anybody want to guess what this is?
[08:11.310 --> 08:11.870]  I know.
[08:12.410 --> 08:14.090]  Well, then it's not a guess if you know.
[08:14.090 --> 08:14.870]  Well, then I won't guess.
[08:15.010 --> 08:15.350]  All right.
[08:15.690 --> 08:16.410]  Well, you know what?
[08:16.410 --> 08:16.950]  We all know.
[08:16.990 --> 08:17.710]  So it's kind of silly.
[08:18.270 --> 08:20.790]  We'd have to pull somebody out of the hallway and ask them.
[08:21.470 --> 08:22.690]  We're talking about the Maker Faire.
[08:22.910 --> 08:25.790]  Yes, the Maker Faire is coming back to New York.
[08:26.330 --> 08:27.290]  It's happened twice.
[08:27.450 --> 08:30.750]  It's happening at the Academy of Science in Queens.
[08:31.070 --> 08:31.970]  New York Hall of Science.
[08:32.030 --> 08:32.630]  New York Hall of Science.
[08:32.690 --> 08:33.910]  Yeah, I always get that mixed up.
[08:34.130 --> 08:39.610]  And we have the coordinator of the Maker Faire in New York.
[08:40.150 --> 08:41.810]  Sherry Huss is joining us right now.
[08:41.950 --> 08:42.650]  Sherry, are you with us?
[08:43.310 --> 08:43.930]  I am.
[08:44.050 --> 08:44.190]  Hi.
[08:44.310 --> 08:44.730]  Hi, Manuel.
[08:44.730 --> 08:45.010]  Hi.
[08:45.530 --> 08:46.090]  How are you doing?
[08:46.470 --> 08:47.690]  You're on site already, right?
[08:50.230 --> 08:50.870]  Can you hear me?
[08:52.070 --> 08:52.390]  Okay.
[08:52.450 --> 08:53.150]  She's on her cell phone.
[08:53.430 --> 08:54.370]  Sorry, I had you on mute.
[08:54.730 --> 08:55.010]  Okay.
[08:55.350 --> 08:56.010]  You had me on mute.
[08:56.550 --> 08:56.890]  All right.
[08:57.030 --> 08:58.090]  Nice to be chatting with you again.
[08:58.210 --> 08:59.270]  But yes, we are on site.
[09:00.110 --> 09:01.450]  And we have been here.
[09:01.610 --> 09:04.750]  The crew started coming in on Sunday.
[09:04.750 --> 09:09.230]  And our first big installation, the mousetrap, is here setting up.
[09:09.370 --> 09:11.710]  And we're kind of in full force and ready to go.
[09:11.870 --> 09:13.290]  What is the mousetrap?
[09:13.830 --> 09:21.070]  So the mousetrap is a kind of a giant Roop Goldberg device created by Mark Perez in San Francisco.
[09:21.810 --> 09:26.070]  And if anyone wants to search it, it's a life-size mousetrap.
[09:26.070 --> 09:41.730]  And Mark Perez and his team put on an amazing show where they actually have a whole story, created Take a Bowling Ball, kind of based on the old mousetrap game, and have brought it to real life.
[09:41.730 --> 09:44.930]  You know, instead of a little marble, it's now a bowling ball.
[09:45.370 --> 09:48.470]  Instead of a plastic little clawfoot tub, it's a real clawfoot tub.
[09:48.870 --> 09:54.070]  And they dropped a safe on a car or something at the end, and it's quite fun.
[09:54.570 --> 09:57.050]  Wasn't it a police car last time they dropped it on?
[09:57.810 --> 09:58.790]  They did have...
[09:58.790 --> 10:00.450]  Year one, they had a taxi.
[10:00.730 --> 10:03.750]  Year two, they had a police car, and we'll have to wait and see what they have this year.
[10:03.810 --> 10:04.090]  Okay.
[10:04.530 --> 10:06.530]  The safe will drop it on, but yes, good memory.
[10:06.810 --> 10:07.050]  Uh-huh.
[10:07.490 --> 10:09.030]  Well, it's hard to forget something like that.
[10:09.030 --> 10:12.930]  Now, this is the third year that Maker Faire has come to New York.
[10:13.630 --> 10:17.110]  What do you see as the differences between the first two that took place?
[10:18.230 --> 10:24.590]  You know, I actually would say this year, from looking at a lot of the applications and makers, we have a lot of new makers.
[10:24.590 --> 10:27.690]  I want to say something like 40% new, which is really great.
[10:28.170 --> 10:33.730]  We have a big emphasis this year in 3D printing, which seems to be the talk of the town these days.
[10:34.370 --> 10:39.330]  And also Arduino, and we have a whole pretty vibrant Young Makers area as well.
[10:39.570 --> 10:41.930]  So, I'd say those things have definitely grown.
[10:42.430 --> 10:45.710]  The Arduino space is twice as large as last year, for example.
[10:46.510 --> 10:47.030]  Wow.
[10:47.430 --> 10:51.930]  And then Raspberry Pi is another big topic that your listeners might be interested in, too.
[10:52.130 --> 10:53.490]  Did you say Raspberry Pi's?
[10:54.170 --> 10:55.090]  Raspberry Pi.
[10:55.310 --> 10:56.730]  What exactly is that?
[10:59.390 --> 11:00.590]  Any of your listeners know?
[11:01.250 --> 11:02.950]  Well, they're not online right now.
[11:03.070 --> 11:04.170]  But, Mike, you perked up.
[11:04.230 --> 11:04.290]  Okay.
[11:04.590 --> 11:05.790]  I haven't actually seen one.
[11:05.870 --> 11:11.410]  But I guess it's this little tiny, like, $30 computer that people on the radio can't see my hands.
[11:11.510 --> 11:13.990]  But I guess, you know, just a few inches long.
[11:14.330 --> 11:15.770]  And it runs Linux.
[11:15.770 --> 11:18.150]  And you can plug a monitor and a keyboard into it.
[11:18.370 --> 11:18.730]  And...
[11:18.730 --> 11:21.650]  Yeah, it's about the size of a credit card, which I believe was the goal.
[11:21.650 --> 11:22.250]  Yep.
[11:22.250 --> 11:25.490]  And so it's a small, inexpensive computer, open source, I believe.
[11:25.690 --> 11:28.270]  And it's out there, and it's awesome.
[11:29.030 --> 11:29.590]  Well, cool.
[11:29.710 --> 11:29.750]  That's true.
[11:29.850 --> 11:30.650]  And we actually have...
[11:30.650 --> 11:31.930]  We have got some...
[11:32.770 --> 11:39.250]  Evan from the Raspberry Pi Foundation will be here talking a little bit about it, getting it in hand.
[11:39.350 --> 11:42.550]  In fact, they're doing a big hackerspace tour this week.
[11:42.550 --> 11:46.370]  I think they were at Alpha One Labs in Brooklyn on Sunday.
[11:46.370 --> 11:52.750]  And they're continuing to kind of educate and put affordable computing in people's hands that are...
[11:52.750 --> 11:53.710]  That's definitely open source.
[11:54.050 --> 11:56.490]  Well, Sherry, can you tell us something about the schedule?
[11:56.670 --> 11:57.530]  When does it begin?
[11:57.850 --> 11:58.810]  How long does it run for?
[11:59.630 --> 11:59.930]  Sure.
[11:59.930 --> 12:00.190]  Absolutely.
[12:00.690 --> 12:02.330]  So Maker Faire is...
[12:02.330 --> 12:03.350]  And it's rain or shine.
[12:03.550 --> 12:07.470]  It's looking a little threatening right now, but we believe it's going to actually be clear up over the weekend.
[12:07.550 --> 12:08.790]  A chance of scattered showers.
[12:08.890 --> 12:09.550]  That's what I heard.
[12:10.130 --> 12:11.230]  We can handle that.
[12:11.490 --> 12:11.990]  That's great.
[12:15.630 --> 12:16.070]  Saturday...
[12:16.070 --> 12:16.690]  It'll be 10 a.m.
[12:16.730 --> 12:17.550]  to 7 p.m.
[12:18.050 --> 12:19.390]  And Sunday, 10 a.m.
[12:19.430 --> 12:20.190]  to 6 p.m.
[12:20.290 --> 12:27.230]  And we're located at the New York Hall of Science in Queens, which is part of the Corona Park Flushing Meadows.
[12:27.510 --> 12:29.250]  Easy to get to on the number seven train.
[12:29.710 --> 12:31.150]  Seven train is the way to go.
[12:31.230 --> 12:38.470]  And then we also have, if anyone's driving, we have parking at Citi Field, your shuttles that come over, and we have a bike valet area.
[12:38.470 --> 12:41.650]  So we're really pushing alternative transportation.
[12:42.990 --> 12:43.430]  Awesome.
[12:43.430 --> 12:43.510]  Awesome.
[12:43.650 --> 12:47.810]  Now, you have all kinds of outdoor events, but also things indoors.
[12:48.270 --> 12:49.030]  We do.
[12:49.730 --> 12:51.290]  Inside, you'll find things.
[12:51.470 --> 12:57.490]  We'll have some beautiful performance space where a local group called Clank will be performing in the Great Hall.
[12:57.670 --> 13:06.770]  And they do sort of a performance musical piece with audience participation, instruments made out of found objects, which will be quite great.
[13:07.190 --> 13:14.610]  We have a whole area inside and with kind of like electronics and a whole host of different things.
[13:14.610 --> 13:18.670]  And outside, we have things that your audience may be interested in.
[13:18.770 --> 13:24.450]  We have the Power Racing Series, which is, it actually started at Maker Faire in Detroit.
[13:25.010 --> 13:30.370]  And Jim Burke out of Pumping Station One, the hacker space in Chicago, has been organizing it.
[13:30.810 --> 13:36.570]  And quite simply, what they do is they get little, the power, little kids power, power wheels.
[13:36.570 --> 13:37.010]  Uh-huh.
[13:37.010 --> 13:46.710]  They have a budget of $500 and several hacker spaces will submit an entry and then they'll have quite a lot of fun racing those on site.
[13:47.370 --> 13:56.850]  The thing I've always been most impressed with is just the young people who show up and are so enthusiastic and just into all the different projects that are going on.
[13:56.850 --> 14:10.370]  And I honestly can't think of an event that seems to cultivate that quite as much on that scale because there are thousands of people that show up to these things and it's just that the enthusiasm is so contagious.
[14:11.050 --> 14:11.930]  No, absolutely.
[14:12.330 --> 14:21.790]  And another thing this year that will be quite fun, especially for kids, we have something that the folks at NYU's ITP program have put together called Nerdy Derby.
[14:21.790 --> 14:29.530]  So they're encouraging, if you go to nerdyderby.com, they're encouraging folks to create their own little, like, Pinewood Derby car.
[14:29.650 --> 14:30.830]  So they've created a track.
[14:30.830 --> 14:34.550]  They're going to have different races throughout the day, different categories.
[14:34.550 --> 14:36.350]  I think that there's even a food category.
[14:36.350 --> 14:41.210]  So you can create a car and race it made from food.
[14:41.230 --> 14:42.750]  So that should be fun, too.
[14:43.590 --> 14:46.570]  Bernie, I wanted to give you a chance to chime in if you had any questions.
[14:46.570 --> 14:54.570]  Well, not too many questions, Sherry, but what strikes me is Maker Faire reminds me of, like, when the circus comes to town.
[14:55.390 --> 14:55.550]  Right.
[14:55.550 --> 14:56.090]  Because the big...
[14:56.090 --> 14:57.070]  In a good way, right?
[14:57.350 --> 15:08.390]  Yeah, I mean, this big crew, this terrific crew comes in, puts up all these amazing attractions and big tents and displays and there's midways.
[15:09.270 --> 15:31.210]  But this is like a circus for geeks and everybody gets to participate and make stuff and share in this group experience where everybody gets to build stuff and fawn over other stuff that people have built and get ideas about how to, like, change what this person built.
[15:31.390 --> 15:33.370]  There's so much symbiosis going on.
[15:33.370 --> 15:40.850]  You see stuff, you know, these projects, people are building these cool things that anybody could really build except nobody had thought of it before.
[15:41.290 --> 15:43.490]  And you can just borrow this idea from this person.
[15:44.050 --> 15:44.490]  It's...
[15:44.490 --> 15:52.770]  Your mental creative juices just gush and ooze as you're walking through with Maker Faire because you're like, wow, I could do this and that.
[15:52.950 --> 15:53.790]  And then people do it.
[15:53.910 --> 15:56.650]  They come up with all kinds of new ideas just by seeing all the stuff going on.
[15:57.030 --> 15:58.570]  Great, great imagery there, Bernie.
[15:58.690 --> 15:58.930]  Thank you.
[15:59.150 --> 15:59.830]  Gushing and goozing.
[16:00.010 --> 16:00.250]  Yeah.
[16:01.710 --> 16:09.230]  Well, now, Sherry, I wanted to ask you, now, the Maker Faire, this is the third time it's been in New York, but the Maker Faire takes place in other locations as well.
[16:09.310 --> 16:10.190]  What are some of those places?
[16:10.730 --> 16:11.290]  It does.
[16:11.450 --> 16:15.830]  Well, the two major Maker Faires, the flagship fairs right now, are in the Bay Area.
[16:16.130 --> 16:19.790]  So, and this will be our seventh year of producing Maker Faires.
[16:20.890 --> 16:24.090]  The Bay Area this year had, like, over 100,000 people, which is great.
[16:24.090 --> 16:32.710]  And then on the East Coast now, we really enjoy working with the New York Hall of Science, love what they're doing for kids, and that's kind of our second flagship event.
[16:32.710 --> 16:41.250]  But what's most important, I think, in noting is that we have a whole program for communities and organizations to create their own Maker Faires.
[16:41.250 --> 16:43.830]  And we've created a playbook.
[16:44.010 --> 16:48.370]  We've pulled together a whole host of communities that are interested in doing this.
[16:48.490 --> 16:54.510]  And this year, there will be 60 community-driven and organized Maker Faires around the world.
[16:54.970 --> 17:07.410]  In fact, this weekend, coming up, not only will we have our big Maker Faire here, the World Maker Faire in New York, there will be one going on in Columbus, Ohio, and two other locations.
[17:07.410 --> 17:11.710]  So it's really... it's quite amazing what the communities are doing.
[17:12.110 --> 17:13.230]  That's really great.
[17:13.410 --> 17:18.050]  It's definitely contagious and something that I think a lot of people will benefit from.
[17:18.110 --> 17:20.110]  How many people usually show up to the ones in New York?
[17:20.690 --> 17:22.370]  Well, in New York, it's been growing.
[17:23.010 --> 17:24.430]  I anticipate...
[17:24.430 --> 17:27.450]  Last year, we had about 35,000 over the course of the weekend.
[17:27.690 --> 17:32.110]  And I think this year, we'll probably be getting closer to about 50,000.
[17:32.350 --> 17:32.830]  So...
[17:33.230 --> 17:33.790]  That's incredible.
[17:34.110 --> 17:35.590]  A lot of interest, which is incredible.
[17:35.590 --> 17:36.050]  Uh-huh.
[17:36.130 --> 17:39.610]  And there's so much space there, too, so it's not crowded or anything like that.
[17:40.410 --> 17:41.090]  That's correct.
[17:41.410 --> 17:41.890]  It's not...
[17:41.890 --> 17:43.010]  And actually, we're...
[17:43.010 --> 17:45.790]  Again, we're on the property of the old World's Fair ground.
[17:45.890 --> 17:50.870]  And in fact, we're kind of a challenge, which would be great to put out there in 2014 and 2015.
[17:51.690 --> 17:56.590]  That'll be the 50th and the 75th anniversary of the World's Fair.
[17:57.430 --> 18:04.530]  So what we'd like to do is get people and even your audience to start thinking, what can we do to kind of, you know, how can we hack the Unisphere?
[18:04.630 --> 18:12.030]  How could we expand onto the property and really kind of celebrate what was started back in 1939?
[18:12.410 --> 18:16.170]  Yeah, maybe we could paint it or just make it look nicer.
[18:16.370 --> 18:16.530]  I don't think it's painting it.
[18:17.150 --> 18:17.810]  There you go.
[18:17.910 --> 18:19.130]  It's actually quite beautiful.
[18:19.130 --> 18:26.450]  In fact, that's another thing I would encourage people to come out because I think a lot of folks don't make it to this neck of the woods when they're coming to New York.
[18:26.670 --> 18:27.070]  True.
[18:27.170 --> 18:28.950]  The grounds are really quite beautiful out here.
[18:29.150 --> 18:37.170]  And in fact, I just took Mike Jeremy, who's one of our makers here from Austin, who's created really beautiful butterfly bikes.
[18:37.190 --> 18:44.090]  And we went kind of on a ride and he's going to do a ride around the Unisphere on Saturday and Sunday before we open.
[18:44.170 --> 18:47.630]  And I have to say, that's a pretty spectacular piece.
[18:47.790 --> 18:55.110]  So if people haven't seen the Unisphere come out and then let's figure out how we how we acknowledge it and put a maker touch on it for the future.
[18:55.290 --> 19:03.450]  Well, one thing that definitely struck me were so many different types of bikes that appear at these events, just the imagination and creativity involved in that.
[19:04.050 --> 19:04.630]  That's right.
[19:04.910 --> 19:06.970]  Well, I think actually that's even an area for kids.
[19:07.230 --> 19:10.290]  A lot of kids really like getting into their bicycles.
[19:11.310 --> 19:13.870]  There are makers here that'll learn how to work on them.
[19:14.010 --> 19:18.170]  Actually, we even have the Fixers Collective that will be here this year.
[19:18.170 --> 19:22.190]  And so it's just sort of bikes is part of this whole maker culture.
[19:22.710 --> 19:32.050]  And I think even for little kids, kind of understanding what it means, how to fix it, how to take care of it, and then also having an idea that transportation is kind of a way.
[19:32.550 --> 19:33.750]  And the whole of...
[19:34.290 --> 19:34.830]  Excuse me.
[19:34.950 --> 19:36.790]  The whole of science is pretty great in its own right, too.
[19:36.870 --> 19:41.710]  You were saying that people don't usually make it up there if they live in New York or if they come to New York.
[19:41.790 --> 19:43.930]  And I really can't say too many good things about the place.
[19:43.930 --> 19:50.410]  It's a great museum for kids, or if you're young at heart, I grew up going there and it certainly inspired a lot of my interests.
[19:50.670 --> 19:52.870]  You know, I didn't go there until the first Maker Faire.
[19:52.970 --> 19:53.610]  I was aware of it.
[19:53.670 --> 19:56.810]  I was at the World's Fair, the second one, not the first one.
[19:58.050 --> 19:59.450]  But I hadn't been to the Hall of Science.
[19:59.590 --> 20:00.970]  Maybe I was there when I was three or something.
[20:01.070 --> 20:01.410]  I don't know.
[20:01.670 --> 20:03.110]  But I had not been there since.
[20:03.110 --> 20:04.530]  I passed by it a million times.
[20:04.730 --> 20:07.190]  So just the Maker Faire was what brought me to that place.
[20:07.190 --> 20:13.750]  And it's such an amazing, open area, and it's just a very nice place to hang out, even if there wasn't a Maker Faire there.
[20:13.930 --> 20:15.970]  So I definitely recommend that.
[20:16.550 --> 20:22.690]  And I think even the Hall of Science have done a really great job of a year-round kind of keeping the Maker spirit going.
[20:22.890 --> 20:24.290]  We have a Maker Space on site.
[20:24.510 --> 20:27.110]  They open and welcome their space to Makers.
[20:27.270 --> 20:35.210]  So anyone that's out there that has an idea, I know that they're quite interested in, again, getting kids hands-on and engaged and also having fun.
[20:35.570 --> 20:43.650]  Okay, well, Sherry Huss, we want to thank you so much, not only for speaking with us tonight, but just for organizing this incredible event with the help of so many other people.
[20:44.090 --> 20:58.550]  And what we're going to do now, thanks to your generosity, we're going to have four pairs of tickets to the Maker Faire for the weekend for people who call in to us right now, 212-209-2900.
[20:59.730 --> 21:04.490]  Sherry, I hope to see you this weekend, and best of luck with everything.
[21:04.490 --> 21:06.810]  And, of course, we'll be talking about it next week, too.
[21:07.430 --> 21:08.270]  That sounds great.
[21:08.590 --> 21:08.890]  All right.
[21:08.950 --> 21:09.370]  Thanks a lot.
[21:09.470 --> 21:12.330]  Thanks for the time, and we hope to see you this weekend as well.
[21:12.610 --> 21:13.530]  Okay, take care.
[21:13.890 --> 21:14.410]  Great, take care.
[21:14.550 --> 21:14.910]  Bye-bye.
[21:15.070 --> 21:15.270]  Bye.
[21:15.650 --> 21:26.350]  Now, as I said, 212-209-2900 is the phone number, and what we are doing is four people will get a pair of tickets.
[21:26.350 --> 21:32.730]  So what you have to do is give us your name, or give us your name and someone else's name, because it's two tickets for the weekend.
[21:33.530 --> 21:36.270]  And if you don't know who you're going to bring, just your name plus one.
[21:36.270 --> 21:36.690]  That'll work.
[21:36.810 --> 21:38.970]  But four people, the first four are calling in.
[21:39.010 --> 21:41.830]  I see all the lines are lit up already, so we probably have our winners.
[21:42.430 --> 21:49.650]  Please only call if you know you can make it, because it's kind of silly to get tickets that you can't use.
[21:50.690 --> 21:52.530]  All right, so that's being taken care of.
[21:52.590 --> 21:55.390]  Rob's going to answer the phone in the other room and write down the names.
[21:55.430 --> 22:00.410]  And all you have to do is show up to the Hall of Science.
[22:00.410 --> 22:02.430]  Your name will be on the list.
[22:03.070 --> 22:03.850]  That's how it works.
[22:03.970 --> 22:04.710]  That's a will call.
[22:04.930 --> 22:05.470]  Will call.
[22:06.050 --> 22:07.270]  Is that a person, or...?
[22:07.270 --> 22:07.830]  Yeah.
[22:08.070 --> 22:08.330]  All right.
[22:08.570 --> 22:10.570]  I never understood that phrase, will call.
[22:10.570 --> 22:11.210]  You're there.
[22:11.350 --> 22:12.110]  You're calling already.
[22:12.290 --> 22:13.170]  I don't get it.
[22:14.210 --> 22:14.730]  Okay.
[22:14.890 --> 22:17.410]  We have other bits of information.
[22:17.490 --> 22:23.250]  It's actually kind of related to Maker Faire, because it's a major part of Maker Faire, and that is the MakerBot.
[22:23.470 --> 22:25.310]  How would you describe a MakerBot, Mike?
[22:25.570 --> 22:39.530]  It's a contraption that is a 3D printer, so you can make a design on a computer for a button or anything 3D, and you can send it to this printer, and it will print it out in plastic.
[22:39.530 --> 22:40.930]  It's really incredible.
[22:41.190 --> 22:46.690]  And you'll see that working at the Maker Faire, and a lot of hackerspaces have it as well.
[22:47.030 --> 22:48.510]  Is that Kyle I see on the phone now?
[22:49.210 --> 22:49.890]  Yes, I'm here.
[22:49.950 --> 22:50.590]  Can you hear me all right?
[22:50.650 --> 22:51.610]  Yeah, I hear you just fine.
[22:51.650 --> 22:51.830]  Wow.
[22:51.930 --> 22:53.550]  Thanks for joining us from Seattle.
[22:54.210 --> 22:54.570]  Fantastic.
[22:54.670 --> 22:55.130]  Thanks for having me.
[22:55.270 --> 22:55.970]  Well, no problem.
[22:56.170 --> 22:58.010]  So, you've seen Maker Faires, too.
[22:58.550 --> 22:59.270]  MakerBots, that is.
[22:59.450 --> 23:00.270]  Maker Faires, in addition.
[23:00.370 --> 23:00.530]  Both.
[23:00.530 --> 23:01.370]  Uh-huh.
[23:01.950 --> 23:23.870]  And yeah, MakerBots, they're sort of a popular tool, a very sought-after tool in some spaces, and with hobbyists, all kinds of different people are using them to, as Mike said, make different objects out of plastic simply by sending a software file from a computer to this device.
[23:24.410 --> 23:27.190]  It's kind of like PostScript, like printing a document.
[23:27.310 --> 23:31.230]  Right, you can print an object, print an actual object, which is pretty incredible.
[23:31.410 --> 23:36.710]  But the MakerBot has kind of landed in some controversy over the last week or so.
[23:36.830 --> 23:38.190]  I'm going to give a little background here.
[23:38.750 --> 23:44.370]  The MakerBot was developed from a project, what was it, the RepRap?
[23:44.570 --> 23:45.530]  RepRap, what was it again?
[23:45.550 --> 23:46.050]  RepRap, yeah.
[23:46.130 --> 23:46.670]  Yeah, RepRap.
[23:47.290 --> 23:48.870]  Which, how would you describe that project?
[23:48.990 --> 23:49.690]  That was just...
[23:49.690 --> 23:51.870]  Well, it's another 3D printer project.
[23:52.530 --> 23:56.130]  The goal, I don't know if they ever succeeded, was that the RepRap could print itself.
[23:56.310 --> 23:58.330]  So if you had a RepRap, you could print one for a friend.
[23:58.750 --> 24:06.250]  I don't know if they ever quite got there, but it's a fully open hardware design for a 3D printer.
[24:06.490 --> 24:06.710]  Okay.
[24:06.890 --> 24:13.090]  And the MakerBot was developed based on that and continued as an open source project.
[24:13.110 --> 24:19.810]  Now, what has happened recently is that this other device has come along.
[24:19.950 --> 24:20.510]  I'm looking for the name of it.
[24:20.590 --> 24:21.530]  Do you know the name of it?
[24:21.870 --> 24:22.110]  I think...
[24:22.110 --> 24:23.550]  It's the MakerBot 2.
[24:23.790 --> 24:24.530]  No, not there.
[24:24.930 --> 24:25.770]  Oh, another device.
[24:25.830 --> 24:26.250]  Kyle, do you know?
[24:27.110 --> 24:29.050]  Well, you think of the Replicator 2.
[24:29.250 --> 24:29.730]  No, no, no.
[24:29.850 --> 24:32.110]  It's not the MakerBot's...
[24:32.110 --> 24:32.770]  Oh, the...
[24:33.230 --> 24:34.250]  It's that other one.
[24:34.850 --> 24:37.150]  There's a number of products in this space.
[24:37.150 --> 24:37.690]  Well, I think you're thinking of commercial ones.
[24:37.690 --> 24:38.190]  I'm not sure.
[24:39.150 --> 24:39.870]  Okay, well...
[24:39.870 --> 24:40.870]  They're like a
[24:44.190 --> 24:44.610]  controversy?
[24:45.010 --> 24:45.230]  Is that right?
[24:45.230 --> 24:47.910]  No, I'm talking about what started the controversy this week.
[24:48.090 --> 24:49.150]  Oh, yeah.
[24:49.350 --> 24:50.490]  Actually, I know exactly...
[24:50.490 --> 24:51.050]  Tangibot.
[24:51.190 --> 24:51.830]  Okay, I found it.
[24:51.910 --> 24:52.710]  Thanks, guys, for your help.
[24:52.770 --> 24:53.570]  I found the name.
[24:53.570 --> 24:54.450]  Tangibot.
[24:54.570 --> 25:00.950]  Now, that is a device that is being sold through some Chinese company, I believe, and...
[25:00.950 --> 25:01.370]  No, no.
[25:01.370 --> 25:02.810]  It's a guy named Matt Strong.
[25:03.050 --> 25:03.650]  Oh, okay.
[25:03.870 --> 25:04.530]  Do I have it wrong?
[25:04.870 --> 25:19.430]  It's a guy named Matt Strong, and he's the project's creator, and he's unabashedly copied the latest MakerBot design and had a lot of the parts sourced from China so that he can beat their price by 33%.
[25:19.430 --> 25:22.950]  Okay, so that is what's going on now.
[25:23.110 --> 25:27.970]  Because the MakerBot was open source, it was fairly easy for somebody to do this.
[25:28.510 --> 25:44.390]  So now, the debate going on in the open source community, and in the MakerBot community as well, does it make sense for the MakerBot, for future MakerBot models, to remain open source, since this kind of thing is just going to happen over and over again?
[25:44.690 --> 25:48.770]  And how would people react if the MakerBot became closed source?
[25:49.150 --> 25:50.550]  Well, it's not a theoretical question.
[25:51.010 --> 25:57.650]  The MakerBot company has announced this week their new design, which is not fully open.
[25:57.650 --> 26:00.230]  Not fully open, but somewhat open?
[26:00.570 --> 26:01.050]  Yeah.
[26:01.670 --> 26:05.890]  You know, it's not quite out yet, so it's not totally clear exactly how open it's going to be.
[26:06.090 --> 26:06.310]  Okay.
[26:06.810 --> 26:13.190]  But not as open as their previous models, for sure, and not fully open.
[26:13.730 --> 26:21.450]  It's going to use some cast parts, some machined parts that you can't just make yourself, and other stuff like that.
[26:21.610 --> 26:22.750]  It's an interesting question.
[26:22.750 --> 26:41.710]  What do you do in a situation like this, when because everything is open and everybody can see all the source code and design things on their own and copy things on their own, if they can simply outsource it to someplace cheaper, they can put the developers out of business and simply take all the innovation for themselves.
[26:42.190 --> 26:44.610]  I mean, I guess that's the nature of capitalism, isn't it?
[26:45.490 --> 26:45.930]  E.
[26:46.270 --> 26:46.830]  Go ahead.
[26:46.930 --> 26:47.850]  Can I make a distinction?
[26:48.010 --> 26:48.970]  Let's just step back a little bit.
[26:49.130 --> 26:49.210]  Sure.
[26:49.210 --> 26:57.330]  With the device, the RepRap, you actually are making parts, like components for the device to then assemble the device.
[26:58.090 --> 27:02.650]  Now, that's distinct from where the MakerBot was in the market and is.
[27:02.890 --> 27:07.430]  It's much more of a kit that you may or may not assemble.
[27:07.610 --> 27:12.730]  And with the latest one, they're actually going to have it completely assembled, so you don't have to even put the kit together.
[27:12.950 --> 27:16.210]  But the MakerBot didn't have you printing out parts for it.
[27:16.210 --> 27:22.850]  So the RepRap was much more for people that are really hardcore, want to build their own device, have it be a little bit more custom or whatever.
[27:23.530 --> 27:28.190]  It's something you actually have to be building the various components or acquiring them one way or another.
[27:28.670 --> 27:30.290]  The MakerBot, as I said, was a kit.
[27:30.290 --> 27:32.130]  It sort of aimed to get people going.
[27:32.410 --> 27:51.710]  And that was really what I think helped the explosion in making things and stuff because you're able to get it into a classroom or get it into the hands of creative people so that they can innovate and they can make stuff and they don't have to be fiddling with trying to make one part for one piece for something that eventually will make things.
[27:52.450 --> 28:00.970]  So the MakerBot was a catalyst for really getting people doing this stuff and designing and getting projects out of the computer and into the real world.
[28:01.330 --> 28:12.450]  And with the latest one, as a commercial product, it is, as I said, completely assembled and has a lot of features and upgrades and things like that.
[28:12.590 --> 28:16.690]  And what this guy did with the Tangibot is he copied basically everything.
[28:16.690 --> 28:17.570]  He didn't upgrade.
[28:17.570 --> 28:18.550]  He didn't change anything.
[28:18.550 --> 28:23.250]  He didn't modify it from the open source plans that MakerBot had.
[28:23.310 --> 28:25.590]  He just completely copied it.
[28:25.630 --> 28:27.670]  And he's pretty unabashed about that.
[28:27.850 --> 28:36.970]  I was just listening to a video where he just lays it all out exactly how he went about doing it.
[28:37.210 --> 28:40.370]  And he's pretty, I don't know, shameless is the word.
[28:40.530 --> 28:43.590]  Well, I mean, he didn't violate any rules by doing this, did he?
[28:43.950 --> 28:44.170]  Right.
[28:44.250 --> 28:46.290]  And he's very quick to point it out.
[28:47.030 --> 28:47.550]  I don't know.
[28:47.630 --> 28:49.990]  I could try to play you a clip, but that's the gist of it.
[28:50.330 --> 28:50.730]  Emanuel?
[28:50.990 --> 28:51.510]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[28:52.090 --> 29:02.630]  I think it's also worth pointing out that MakerBot Industries is a small company in Brooklyn that employs a lot of our neighbors and friends.
[29:02.630 --> 29:14.850]  And it is an interesting experiment, not just in technology, but in how a small manufacturing company can make it in the United States.
[29:15.210 --> 29:20.550]  So that adds a whole, you know, piece to this discussion.
[29:20.550 --> 29:32.430]  It's also an interesting crossroads for the open source community because here is a challenge where the idealism of the whole open source concept is now being used kind of against you.
[29:32.570 --> 29:33.910]  How do you react to that?
[29:34.090 --> 29:38.670]  Do you react by simply turning that off into going closed source?
[29:38.690 --> 29:43.650]  Or is there some other way to fight back and come out on top?
[29:43.650 --> 29:53.550]  Because I think one thing we have to remember is that the people who are technical, the people who want to develop things on their own, they're going to support the people that allow them to innovate.
[29:53.550 --> 30:00.970]  But the average person who just wants something that works and wants something that's cheap, they're going to go the cheapest, simplest way.
[30:01.130 --> 30:02.570]  How do you get those people back?
[30:03.510 --> 30:04.070]  Precisely.
[30:04.250 --> 30:05.090]  Yeah, definitely.
[30:05.090 --> 30:13.030]  So, apparently, MakerBot Industries recently came out with a new product called the Replicator 2, I think.
[30:13.310 --> 30:19.170]  And that now has, instead of open source technology, has some proprietary technology.
[30:19.670 --> 30:35.030]  And people are naturally wondering, I think, is this a response to these basically copies of the previous MakerBot device that had been on the market?
[30:35.650 --> 30:55.550]  So, I imagine this new device, which looks like it has amazing features, it'll lay down lines of like, I think, 0.1 millimeters, so really smooth surfaces on the three-dimensional objects that it'll print, and it'll print a larger three-dimensional object than any other MakerBot product before could print.
[30:55.730 --> 30:58.150]  It's really, you know, it'll make, you know, pretty good-sized stuff.
[31:00.610 --> 31:06.030]  I think a lot of, as you pointed out, Emmanuel, a lot of people don't really care whether the product they buy is open source or not.
[31:06.070 --> 31:07.350]  They just want to buy something that works.
[31:07.530 --> 31:17.930]  But, open source is a very important movement over the past several years where, you know, the technology is shared and open, and you can read the source code and tinker with it and improve upon it.
[31:18.850 --> 31:21.250]  And this is really an interesting controversy.
[31:22.130 --> 31:26.090]  MakerBot apparently did this as a business decision.
[31:26.090 --> 31:35.430]  I don't think they wanted to do it in MakerBot Industries, but I think they felt they had to to protect some of their technology from being, you know, just blatantly copied.
[31:35.430 --> 31:39.730]  So, it's really a vibrant topic in the geek community right now.
[31:39.850 --> 31:44.650]  Well, there's also the issue of venture capitalists who have invested in MakerBot.
[31:45.230 --> 31:47.490]  And, of course, they want to see their investment return.
[31:48.430 --> 31:51.510]  MakerBot was developed before things like Kickstarter existed.
[31:51.510 --> 31:58.410]  So, maybe today it would be possible to get a couple of million bucks from people that are idealistic in nature.
[31:58.590 --> 32:05.330]  But, back when they started, as far as I understand, the only way to get the money to start this up was to get venture capitalists involved.
[32:05.730 --> 32:07.690]  And, of course, they want to see a return.
[32:07.690 --> 32:09.290]  So, how do you placate them?
[32:09.730 --> 32:10.530]  Good questions.
[32:11.010 --> 32:11.570]  All right.
[32:11.650 --> 32:18.390]  Well, the question I have for the folks here is, whose move is it?
[32:18.450 --> 32:19.890]  Is it the open source community's move?
[32:20.030 --> 32:21.330]  Is it MakerBot's move?
[32:21.410 --> 32:22.450]  Is it the consumer's move?
[32:22.690 --> 32:24.230]  And what move is it?
[32:24.870 --> 32:26.110]  What's the most...
[32:26.110 --> 32:29.690]  I mean, this is probably something that has not been done before.
[32:29.890 --> 32:30.770]  This is a crossroads.
[32:30.890 --> 32:36.410]  This is something that will determine, perhaps, the future of how open source technology develops.
[32:36.690 --> 32:37.170]  Mike?
[32:37.250 --> 32:39.010]  I think you're overstating the case.
[32:39.010 --> 32:41.630]  I don't think it's any...
[32:41.630 --> 32:48.990]  So, this is certainly not the first time that, you know, freely developed technologies have been put into closed products.
[32:49.450 --> 32:52.650]  It happens more often with software because it's easier to do.
[32:53.990 --> 32:55.570]  And there are very...
[32:55.570 --> 32:56.670]  You know, people have different opinions.
[32:56.870 --> 32:58.190]  I don't think there's one right answer.
[32:58.250 --> 33:01.050]  I don't think it's anyone's... one person's move.
[33:03.310 --> 33:03.790]  It's...
[33:03.790 --> 33:12.030]  I think that, as users, we should be careful about what technology we use and question whether the technology we're using fits with our values.
[33:12.030 --> 33:16.310]  But I don't think that's, you know, that's something we discuss on this program all the time.
[33:16.490 --> 33:17.990]  Well, you danced around the question really nicely.
[33:17.990 --> 33:20.050]  What is the thing that should be done?
[33:20.150 --> 33:21.130]  That's what I'm asking.
[33:21.310 --> 33:21.970]  That who should do.
[33:22.090 --> 33:22.490]  That...
[33:22.490 --> 33:23.290]  Well, you tell me.
[33:23.390 --> 33:24.770]  Who should do what now?
[33:24.770 --> 33:26.750]  Do we just sit back and...
[33:26.750 --> 33:28.510]  So I think MakerBot Inc.
[33:29.430 --> 33:34.710]  as a corporate entity and its directors and leaders should decide whether...
[33:34.710 --> 33:35.350]  What...
[33:35.350 --> 33:37.290]  And apparently they have decided, but they...
[33:37.290 --> 33:40.370]  They should stop, you know, splitting the fence, I would say.
[33:40.470 --> 33:46.410]  They should decide if they want to continue to develop their products in an open manner or not.
[33:46.410 --> 33:56.990]  And then if they choose not to, then the community of users should decide if they wish to continue to do business with MakerBot on these less open terms.
[33:56.990 --> 33:59.850]  But I don't think there is one unified response.
[34:00.110 --> 34:07.010]  Well, I mean, let's say that you're running a corporation like MakerBot and somebody comes along and simply copies everything that you've done and undercuts you.
[34:07.270 --> 34:12.730]  I mean, it's easy to say that they should remain open source and keep doing these things, but how do they stay in business?
[34:12.730 --> 34:14.010]  How is that possible?
[34:15.390 --> 34:16.110]  They can...
[34:16.110 --> 34:17.870]  I mean, there are companies that do this.
[34:18.030 --> 34:22.550]  There are companies that offer a better value, which is not necessarily the cheapest possible product.
[34:23.390 --> 34:25.550]  MakerBot itself did not start from scratch.
[34:25.770 --> 34:36.550]  They, as we mentioned earlier, modified the designs of the RepRaps and, you know, as with everything that's built, stand on the shoulders of giants in so many ways.
[34:38.710 --> 34:48.950]  But, so when they decide, you know, they don't want to... they're so big or big or big enough that they don't want to continue to be part of this community, that's their decision to make.
[34:49.110 --> 34:49.830]  Carl, how about you?
[34:50.650 --> 34:52.710]  Well, I think there's a couple things going on here.
[34:52.710 --> 35:02.610]  I think definitely, like, MakerBot's growing, and they have worked really hard and been a bit of a pillar as far as leading the way with this stuff.
[35:02.610 --> 35:10.090]  And I think they deserve to earn money and to grow the way they want to, whether they want to be a corporation or a hippie commune.
[35:10.090 --> 35:24.510]  And whatever the case, like, seriously, it's a product that they've designed and they deserve not to be completely undercut with a product that is being sold as an exact clone of MakerBot.
[35:24.610 --> 35:31.110]  I mean, this guy actually had to take the references to MakerBot out of his Kickstarter page when the controversy started.
[35:31.110 --> 35:39.650]  And I think that, I mean, this is... yeah, it's open source, but I mean, if it wasn't, this would be profoundly illegal.
[35:39.970 --> 35:47.870]  And I mean, these are why the evil, like, ACTA and a lot... I don't know, not ACTA, but a lot of the copyright stuff that's going on.
[35:48.010 --> 35:49.570]  Well, yeah, ACTA and that kind of stuff.
[35:49.770 --> 35:59.430]  If a bunch of Chinese stuff was being branded as like, okay, this is an exact copy of such and such leather handbag or whatever, people would be all over it.
[35:59.510 --> 36:00.850]  You can't sell things like that.
[36:00.930 --> 36:04.430]  They always have to put fake names on things if it's a copy of something.
[36:05.250 --> 36:07.670]  And that's kind of exactly what's going on.
[36:07.830 --> 36:12.150]  The other thing is, this guy, he doesn't seem like he has...
[36:12.150 --> 36:16.610]  The guy that's created the tangible, he doesn't seem like he's very professional or serious.
[36:17.010 --> 36:23.650]  It just seems like some weekend guy that just decided he would, you know, undercut this other company.
[36:24.250 --> 36:30.570]  I just don't think he knows what he's messing with as far as the community goes because there's a lot of backlash.
[36:30.570 --> 36:46.230]  I think as much as people are upset that maybe MakerBot is considering close source, I think there's a lot of backlash in the community because it's kind of ugly to be doing that to a company that's provided so much and so openly to the developing community.
[36:46.230 --> 36:48.450]  That said, I don't think that MakerBot...
[36:49.510 --> 37:07.730]  I think MakerBot could clear things up and express their concerns and maybe provide some reasons and point to exactly what things they are closing down if that is the case in the future.
[37:07.730 --> 37:16.310]  And maybe say, like, look, this is an attribute of the market and this is the hand we're going to play if this continues.
[37:16.690 --> 37:26.470]  And if people back off and, you know, they get their market that they've carved out again, I think maybe they could then maybe open it back up or something like that.
[37:26.470 --> 37:27.170]  But I don't know.
[37:27.230 --> 37:28.330]  I think it's within their right.
[37:28.330 --> 37:31.230]  I'm not saying it's great, but that's kind of where I'm at right now.
[37:31.290 --> 37:34.930]  But I'm still kind of processing it because I've just found out about this.
[37:35.030 --> 37:39.290]  It's really remarkable how passionate people are about this.
[37:39.390 --> 37:41.330]  And it's taken an interesting direction.
[37:41.650 --> 37:44.110]  Well, Bernie, I'm going to ask you the same question and then we're going to move on.
[37:44.510 --> 37:44.830]  Okay.
[37:44.970 --> 38:01.270]  Well, I don't know if I know what the question is, but I'm just going to say that I know from personal experience talking to people at MakerBot Industries, visiting them, that it seems, by all opinions, it's an ethically run company.
[38:02.250 --> 38:04.410]  It's a good business.
[38:04.430 --> 38:06.310]  It employs good people.
[38:06.610 --> 38:11.050]  And it deserves to be supported on those merits alone.
[38:11.550 --> 38:22.050]  But I think MakerBot customers, MakerBot Industries customers, or people who are interested in buying their newest product, which is no longer open source, are kind of put in a bind.
[38:22.190 --> 38:35.410]  Do they want to keep supporting what, you know, by most people's opinion is it's a very ethically run company that employs good people and it deserves a lot of credit for doing that, and for supporting the open source community for so long.
[38:35.590 --> 38:39.790]  Do they want to continue supporting that company now that it's gone closed source?
[38:40.350 --> 38:44.090]  Or do they want to say none of that all mattered?
[38:44.310 --> 38:55.350]  So it really puts customers who want to buy this amazing new device, the Replicator 2, which is about the price of a good bicycle that'll make amazing 3D objects with smooth surfaces.
[38:57.590 --> 39:00.190]  Just plug it in your computer, you can print anything you can download.
[39:01.930 --> 39:03.770]  It really puts people in a bind.
[39:03.990 --> 39:05.090]  I think it's a good company.
[39:05.150 --> 39:06.410]  I think they deserve to be supported.
[39:06.630 --> 39:12.730]  At the same time, I think people really need to decide which way they want to go.
[39:12.870 --> 39:17.750]  Do they want to buy an open source product, or do they want to buy an excellent product run by an excellent company?
[39:18.270 --> 39:22.830]  It's ethical, but it's closed source that you can't get anywhere else right now.
[39:23.110 --> 39:39.370]  Well, I think it's, again, the community can exercise its power, get the word out somehow to the populace and say, this is why you should support the company that developed it, the open source company, and not the cheap company that copies it.
[39:39.370 --> 39:45.190]  But unless you get that message to the public, it's going to be very hard for that company to survive.
[39:46.110 --> 39:50.750]  And unless they were to go close source, and then, of course, that alienates a lot of other people.
[39:51.590 --> 39:56.490]  So again, it's a crossroads, and I'm very curious to see how it works out.
[39:56.490 --> 40:05.730]  Now, at the Maker Faire, there will be people from MakerBot there, of course, so you can come and give them a piece of your mind as well, and maybe find out some things from the front lines.
[40:06.030 --> 40:07.370]  It's going to be really, really interesting.
[40:07.930 --> 40:08.870]  But we do have to move on.
[40:08.910 --> 40:09.510]  We have other things.
[40:09.570 --> 40:12.450]  As I said, we have a lot of topics to discuss tonight.
[40:12.490 --> 40:13.690]  And we do want to take some phone calls, too.
[40:14.910 --> 40:18.390]  This is something that we've been debating on our own mailing list.
[40:18.850 --> 40:20.570]  Actually, I think I'm the only one debating it.
[40:21.570 --> 40:34.450]  Driverless cars, yes, driverless cars might be making more of an appearance on California roads, thanks to a bill signed this week that set safety and performance guidelines for advancing autonomous vehicles in the state.
[40:34.590 --> 40:43.990]  Governor Jerry Brown and the bill's sponsor, Senator Alex Padilla, joined Google co-founder, Sergey Brin, at the company's Mountain View headquarters to sign the legislation.
[40:44.110 --> 40:47.590]  So basically, they're saying that driverless cars are now legal in California.
[40:48.210 --> 40:50.570]  And boy, do I have misgivings about this.
[40:51.190 --> 40:55.150]  Now, Google has been testing and tweaking autonomous vehicle technology for about two years now.
[40:55.150 --> 40:58.170]  It's one of the strongest backers of the new California bill.
[40:58.870 --> 41:08.790]  The new law also places an emphasis on safety standards, ensuring that, for now, a bonded operator is in the driver's seat of a testing vehicle in case they need to take over driving responsibilities.
[41:09.270 --> 41:14.750]  It also mandates the DMV adopt regulations for licensing, testing, and operating autonomous vehicles.
[41:15.690 --> 41:17.950]  Google has long championed technology.
[41:17.950 --> 41:20.350]  They're working on ways to make roads safer.
[41:20.790 --> 41:31.250]  While a car without a driver in the front seat might not scream safety to the average consumer, the newest brand of smart car could significantly reduce traffic accidents.
[41:31.550 --> 41:39.750]  That's according to Shuao Pang, Associate Professor in the Department of Systems Engineering at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach.
[41:39.750 --> 41:45.410]  The biggest advantage of a driverless car is safety, he said to Tech News World.
[41:45.590 --> 41:53.390]  According to statistics, each year about 1.2 million people died of traffic accidents worldwide, most of which are often caused by driver fatigue and the inability to concentrate.
[41:53.450 --> 41:59.330]  The driverless car can effectively avoid the driver-caused accident due to fatigue and other abnormal behaviors.
[41:59.530 --> 42:08.310]  In addition to eliminating human conditions such as fatigue or distraction, an autonomous vehicle also has a much better response time than the average human, he said.
[42:09.230 --> 42:19.670]  When there is an emergency situation where a driver needs to brake, the reaction speed of the driverless car can be as small as 40 milliseconds, while human beings will take at least 500 milliseconds.
[42:20.490 --> 42:30.130]  Now, Google, along with researchers at the University of Texas in Austin, have also found that autonomous vehicles could significantly reduce carbon emissions and could cut down on fuel dependency.
[42:30.690 --> 42:39.690]  They will also lead to much greater fuel efficiency due to smoother driving, with less stopping and starting, and by supporting methods for dramatic reductions in congestion.
[42:41.270 --> 42:51.870]  You know, I keep reading these articles about this, and I see all the pluses, all the marvelous things, and I'm seeing precious little as far as what the disadvantages are.
[42:51.870 --> 42:53.350]  And I do think there are disadvantages.
[42:53.350 --> 43:14.830]  And I think it's something that we tend to sort of plunge headlong into these automated devices, and we get the, you know, smartphone syndrome, where we just kind of get mesmerized and don't really look at the potential threats, disadvantages, how our lives are getting a little bit less in our control.
[43:16.070 --> 43:22.590]  I'm not sure if I can explain that to people that simply think that a computer can do everything better.
[43:23.330 --> 43:24.030]  I'm sure it can.
[43:24.110 --> 43:24.450]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[43:24.910 --> 43:33.670]  I just want to say, what we're talking about here are robots that are hurtling down the highways at highway speeds, and they're autonomous.
[43:34.490 --> 43:35.670]  They make their own decisions.
[43:35.930 --> 43:36.350]  Uh-huh.
[43:36.750 --> 43:41.650]  It's only a matter of time, or enough of these are on the road, where someone gets hurt or killed by one of these.
[43:41.750 --> 43:42.170]  Oh, of course.
[43:42.210 --> 43:42.890]  It's just going to happen.
[43:42.990 --> 43:43.310]  Of course.
[43:43.310 --> 43:46.050]  No matter whose fault it is, whatever, it's going to happen.
[43:46.250 --> 43:50.790]  And then our society is going to have some really serious questions to ask.
[43:51.090 --> 43:52.530]  Do we want this?
[43:52.630 --> 44:11.090]  Now, you know, right now, with cars operated by human beings, something like 3,000 people die in the United States every couple of weeks just from automobile accidents, which are caused ostensibly by people not driving properly.
[44:11.090 --> 44:12.070]  Well, don't get me wrong.
[44:12.210 --> 44:14.010]  I think most people should not drive.
[44:14.030 --> 44:16.430]  I think there should be a lot less vehicles on the road.
[44:17.010 --> 44:24.870]  But I don't think the answer is to simply automate and to put all our faith in computers or automation or anything like that.
[44:24.870 --> 44:28.910]  You know, I don't want to be a Luddite or anything like that.
[44:29.010 --> 44:34.210]  But we do have to look at this with a critical eye and not simply put all of our faith in technology.
[44:34.210 --> 44:34.730]  I have a question, Emmanuel.
[44:35.010 --> 44:46.730]  Why do you think people would react differently to a robot killing someone on the road in an accident versus a human being driving a car and killing someone by accident?
[44:46.870 --> 44:47.890]  I mean, that happens all the time.
[44:47.990 --> 44:48.630]  We're used to that.
[44:48.750 --> 44:53.830]  But when a robot kills someone by accident, why should we react any differently?
[44:53.830 --> 44:55.390]  I can't believe we're having this conversation.
[44:55.570 --> 44:56.570]  Kyle, then Mike.
[44:56.950 --> 44:58.290]  That's not an answer, Emmanuel.
[44:58.490 --> 44:59.070]  Okay, you're not Kyle.
[44:59.250 --> 44:59.430]  Mike.
[45:00.230 --> 45:01.070]  I mean, Kyle.
[45:01.670 --> 45:02.470]  I'm really confused.
[45:02.630 --> 45:11.890]  E, I just wanted to say, with your comment about things becoming less in our control in relation to smartphones and stuff, what about things becoming more boring?
[45:12.290 --> 45:14.930]  And, I mean, have you ever run into somebody accidentally?
[45:14.930 --> 45:19.370]  That doesn't happen if you're, like, you know, dodge-squaring and all this, like, social proximity-based stuff.
[45:19.370 --> 45:19.690]  Wait, wait, wait.
[45:19.770 --> 45:20.770]  In your car?
[45:21.010 --> 45:23.190]  You mean run into people accidentally in your car?
[45:23.310 --> 45:23.330]  No, no, no.
[45:23.330 --> 45:23.530]  In the street.
[45:23.690 --> 45:24.450]  Like, bump into someone.
[45:24.450 --> 45:24.630]  Oh.
[45:24.630 --> 45:25.950]  I'm talking about chance encounters.
[45:26.170 --> 45:27.210]  You know, excitement.
[45:27.530 --> 45:33.490]  The parts of life that aren't predicted and mediated and organized and networked in that way.
[45:33.750 --> 45:34.670]  Well, yeah, of course.
[45:34.710 --> 45:36.730]  Driving a car, I mean, it's less boring.
[45:37.090 --> 45:37.650]  How about this?
[45:37.890 --> 45:39.810]  I enjoy driving cars.
[45:40.090 --> 45:40.330]  Mm-hmm.
[45:40.330 --> 45:43.270]  You know, I enjoy being a driver.
[45:43.510 --> 45:44.250]  That's fun.
[45:44.390 --> 45:46.570]  You know, it can be exciting to be out on the road.
[45:46.830 --> 45:52.010]  We've talked countless times about road trips, and that's a parallel I draw to, like, things becoming a bit boring.
[45:52.170 --> 45:55.350]  I mean, I really feel like, where's the smartphone lobby?
[45:55.590 --> 46:07.030]  And it's just allowing more time for people to be sitting in a car on their phone and having the car drive them so that they can check in and do all the crud they have to do on their smartphone.
[46:07.030 --> 46:17.510]  My second thing that occurred to me in this discussion was what happens when people start, like, jamming and, like, messing with all the autonomous cars that Bernie was talking about hurling down the road.
[46:17.510 --> 46:20.070]  I can just see it now, like, me loving my driving.
[46:20.090 --> 46:26.150]  I figure out a way to, like, jam, you know, 30% of the robotic cars, and they're all piled up.
[46:26.150 --> 46:33.770]  Or maybe I can make them all, like, go into a cool shape or do, like, weird, you know, math games on the highway or something.
[46:33.770 --> 46:37.030]  Oh, you're going to be the number one danger to a future society, that's for sure.
[46:37.110 --> 46:37.270]  Mike?
[46:37.530 --> 46:45.330]  So, I mean, it's clear that human-driven automobiles are the most dangerous technology that we currently allow to exist, you know, outside of war zones.
[46:45.870 --> 46:47.570]  But nuclear technology is less dangerous?
[46:47.770 --> 46:53.510]  The amount of people killed by automobiles in the United States is much higher than the amount of people killed by nuclear technology in the United States.
[46:53.510 --> 46:54.290]  Well, give it time.
[46:54.390 --> 46:54.850]  Give it time.
[46:54.970 --> 46:55.370]  Okay, go ahead.
[46:55.370 --> 47:02.990]  And so, the question, can we make this technology safer, is a very interesting question.
[47:02.990 --> 47:04.930]  It's one that we should try to answer.
[47:05.090 --> 47:07.590]  It's not one that we should just say, well, I like to drive.
[47:07.870 --> 47:11.330]  Therefore, it's okay if thousands of people die every year.
[47:11.650 --> 47:17.570]  That's not an answer that I'm satisfied with for why we should continue to keep things the way they are.
[47:17.570 --> 47:20.870]  Now, are these cars better than human-driven cars?
[47:20.890 --> 47:22.470]  I don't know the answer to that.
[47:22.670 --> 47:26.510]  No one knows the answer to that because they're not made yet in any real quantities.
[47:26.910 --> 47:28.270]  Maybe these things suck.
[47:28.410 --> 47:30.690]  Maybe they'll kill even more people than humans do.
[47:30.870 --> 47:43.830]  But we certainly don't have the evidence to say out of hand that this technology is so bad that we must stop it now when the technology we have already is so bad that we must stop it now, in my opinion, and we're not stopping it.
[47:43.830 --> 47:45.770]  I don't know if it's the technology or just the drivers.
[47:45.990 --> 47:47.330]  I think drivers need to be better trained.
[47:47.610 --> 47:50.230]  It's the human car system is bad.
[47:50.550 --> 47:55.590]  Like, humans cannot react fast enough to stop in many circumstances.
[47:55.830 --> 47:58.350]  I don't think all humans can be categorized in the same way.
[47:58.470 --> 48:00.250]  I think there are bad drivers and good drivers.
[48:00.450 --> 48:02.610]  The human nervous system has physical limits.
[48:02.610 --> 48:05.670]  You cannot react quicker than a third of a second.
[48:05.850 --> 48:09.410]  Right, but the human nervous system is not responsible for all the accidents that take place.
[48:09.570 --> 48:10.430]  Bad drivers are.
[48:10.430 --> 48:13.450]  Bad situations like that, you know, and I don't think that's...
[48:14.470 --> 48:16.890]  Getting rid of the humans is gonna solve that, you know?
[48:17.190 --> 48:17.550]  Rob?
[48:17.870 --> 48:21.070]  I just think... I like that it's Google that's behind this because, you know...
[48:21.070 --> 48:21.690]  Of course it's Google.
[48:21.850 --> 48:27.190]  Think of all the times you've been in front of your Gmail or your YouTube page or something, and it's frozen up and you've had to reload.
[48:27.530 --> 48:31.330]  And imagine instead of a web page that's a steel box heading toward you at 60 miles an hour.
[48:31.330 --> 48:41.410]  But also, I'd really like to know what, like, people like our friend Tiffany Rad and the Open Auto Project and folks like that who are into hacking the hardware in their cars think of all this.
[48:41.570 --> 48:42.690]  And you have to hack this.
[48:42.770 --> 48:45.310]  You have to absolutely take it apart and know how it works.
[48:45.410 --> 48:50.870]  And, you know, all the problems I've had with automobiles over the last couple of years have been computer problems.
[48:51.090 --> 48:55.510]  And what happens when there's a computer problem when you're going at a high rate of speed and something fails?
[48:55.510 --> 49:00.450]  Are you supposed to immediately jump to attention and take over manually with a moment's notice?
[49:00.450 --> 49:03.070]  You know, I'm not saying do not develop technology.
[49:03.070 --> 49:06.450]  Of course, I'm always into experimenting and trying things out.
[49:06.570 --> 49:08.110]  But let's not blindly accept it.
[49:08.170 --> 49:16.270]  I see too many people blindly signing on to Gmail and saying, oh yeah, they read my mail and they send me ads based on what I say and it's okay because they have a nice interface.
[49:16.590 --> 49:18.470]  No, you know, you question things like this.
[49:18.570 --> 49:19.990]  You try to get something better.
[49:20.130 --> 49:22.150]  You still use the technology and figure it all out.
[49:22.690 --> 49:24.630]  But don't blindly accept things.
[49:24.750 --> 49:27.730]  Just, I'm for questioning and trying different things.
[49:27.750 --> 49:28.870]  I agree with you.
[49:28.870 --> 49:32.430]  I'm just also for questioning the notion that human-driven cars work well.
[49:33.150 --> 49:36.110]  Well, they can if the people are trained.
[49:36.310 --> 49:37.570]  But the people aren't trained.
[49:37.810 --> 49:38.590]  The people aren't...
[49:38.590 --> 49:40.150]  You can't make people better.
[49:40.490 --> 49:44.770]  Like that's one thing that science isn't doing very well is making people better.
[49:45.230 --> 49:45.870]  Well, okay.
[49:45.990 --> 49:47.450]  But you know, people, that's all we got.
[49:47.630 --> 49:48.450]  You know, that's who we are.
[49:48.530 --> 49:48.930]  We're humans.
[49:49.430 --> 49:57.270]  So let's outsource to computers the things that we don't do well as humans and stick to the things that we as humans do do well.
[49:57.270 --> 50:00.530]  I think we drive pretty well for the people that are good drivers.
[50:00.650 --> 50:02.090]  The people who are bad drivers should not be on the road.
[50:02.110 --> 50:02.990]  I agree with that.
[50:03.510 --> 50:04.990]  How are you going to accomplish that?
[50:04.990 --> 50:12.630]  By making it a bit more rigid as far as who gets licenses and not assuming that driving every place is a right.
[50:12.730 --> 50:13.470]  It's a privilege.
[50:13.490 --> 50:15.070]  You have to pass a certain test.
[50:15.250 --> 50:19.650]  You have to maintain a certain level of standard to be able to do that.
[50:19.830 --> 50:20.190]  It's...
[50:20.190 --> 50:22.030]  I just think too many people are on the road.
[50:22.150 --> 50:23.010]  There's too many cars on the road.
[50:23.050 --> 50:23.530]  That's another thing.
[50:23.610 --> 50:30.510]  They say more cars can get on the road now because they'll be spaced closer together and somehow it's going to save fuel and make things cleaner.
[50:30.510 --> 50:33.510]  How does that make things cleaner when there are more cars on the road?
[50:33.670 --> 50:35.330]  And that they're closer together.
[50:35.530 --> 50:40.970]  It sounds like to me like that's a recipe for disaster because when something does happen and you need ten...
[50:40.970 --> 50:43.710]  You need a car length every ten miles an hour that you're traveling.
[50:43.970 --> 50:44.630]  That is a fact.
[50:44.730 --> 50:46.170]  That's got nothing to do with a human reaction.
[50:46.410 --> 50:47.050]  That's physics.
[50:47.250 --> 50:49.850]  And that's not gonna change if you have a computer doing things.
[50:49.970 --> 50:52.930]  And if you space things too closely together, you're gonna have problems.
[50:53.070 --> 50:55.770]  Explain to me the physics and why they have nothing to do with human reaction.
[50:55.770 --> 51:01.290]  Because you have to stop a vehicle and 10 miles an hour per vehicle length.
[51:01.490 --> 51:02.370]  That's like standard...
[51:02.370 --> 51:03.450]  How do you stop the vehicle?
[51:04.150 --> 51:04.950]  Apply brakes.
[51:05.170 --> 51:05.930]  You apply the brake.
[51:05.930 --> 51:06.730]  You move your foot.
[51:06.810 --> 51:07.970]  You take your foot off the pedal.
[51:08.090 --> 51:09.610]  It's on and you move it over to the pedal.
[51:09.690 --> 51:11.510]  And that takes time that a computer could do faster.
[51:11.750 --> 51:12.190]  Yeah, okay.
[51:12.210 --> 51:13.950]  You can stop a lot faster, I suppose.
[51:13.950 --> 51:18.570]  And people could really be injured a lot more because of the rate of how quickly you stop.
[51:18.710 --> 51:21.710]  You can go from 60 to zero in a millisecond, I suppose.
[51:21.870 --> 51:23.690]  But that's really... that's not what we're talking about.
[51:23.690 --> 51:24.730]  No, that's not what I'm talking about.
[51:24.850 --> 51:27.530]  I'm talking about the time it takes you to actually move your foot over.
[51:27.690 --> 51:28.370]  That takes time.
[51:28.590 --> 51:34.610]  The time before you even begin to stop is a significant factor in a lot of...
[51:34.610 --> 51:42.170]  I'm just saying I don't think it's safe to put cars so close together that you're relying on that amount of time.
[51:42.730 --> 51:43.570]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[51:43.690 --> 51:44.990]  I'd like to take some phone calls if possible.
[51:45.230 --> 51:53.670]  Real quick, I just want to say, I think we can probably all agree that driverless cars have the potential of being driven more safely.
[51:53.690 --> 52:01.430]  more safely than the average driver-driven... human driver-driven car.
[52:01.690 --> 52:15.050]  If we all agree on that, or if that comes to happen, then are we still going to react differently when one of these driverless cars kills someone compared to a car driven by a human being?
[52:15.650 --> 52:16.770]  Well, good question.
[52:16.990 --> 52:20.830]  But, you know, I like to look at it more in a social setting.
[52:21.930 --> 52:23.910]  What's it going to be like to actually go someplace?
[52:24.130 --> 52:28.990]  Can you just decide you want to drive someplace, change your mind, make a U-turn, things like that?
[52:28.990 --> 52:30.350]  Or are these things going to be restricted?
[52:30.650 --> 52:34.990]  Are you not going to be allowed to go one mile an hour over the speed limit without some horrible penalty?
[52:35.650 --> 52:37.870]  Or it just won't be even physically possible.
[52:38.130 --> 52:44.810]  All the spontaneity will evaporate, and it's one more thing that we as individuals won't be able to do.
[52:44.970 --> 52:50.450]  I would respond to that your spontaneity is worth a lot less than the life of the people who are killed by automobiles.
[52:50.450 --> 52:52.250]  Yeah, I don't think they're the same thing.
[52:52.330 --> 52:52.870]  I really don't.
[52:53.030 --> 52:54.350]  Let's see if we can take some phone calls.
[52:54.670 --> 52:55.950]  212-209-2900.
[52:56.010 --> 52:56.230]  Good evening.
[52:56.350 --> 52:56.890]  You're on Off the Hook.
[52:58.090 --> 52:58.490]  Yes.
[52:58.490 --> 52:58.890]  Hi.
[52:59.130 --> 52:59.390]  Hi.
[52:59.550 --> 53:00.190]  Make it quick, please.
[53:00.470 --> 53:00.710]  Okay.
[53:00.710 --> 53:08.230]  I just want to point out that we've had autopilots in airplanes for many, many years, and we don't call them pilotless airplanes.
[53:08.810 --> 53:12.730]  They do a great job, and there are traps with automation.
[53:12.970 --> 53:14.610]  And we have cruise control in vehicles, too.
[53:15.070 --> 53:15.870]  That's a...
[53:15.870 --> 53:17.470]  That's a lesser form.
[53:17.790 --> 53:18.190]  Mm-hmm.
[53:18.290 --> 53:22.890]  But, you know, you have pilots landing the things, and they're taking off with pilots, too.
[53:22.970 --> 53:23.010]  No, no.
[53:23.010 --> 53:27.000]  They have autoland from a pilot myself.
[53:27.180 --> 53:27.480]  Uh-huh.
[53:27.680 --> 53:28.880]  I know a little bit about this.
[53:29.020 --> 53:29.820]  Okay, well...
[53:29.820 --> 53:31.760]  But when things... there's a problem.
[53:32.320 --> 53:36.160]  You know, pilots do tend to get complacent when everything's being done for them.
[53:36.820 --> 53:41.980]  So you have a very good example with Air France 447, when all the lights start flashing.
[53:42.140 --> 53:42.440]  Uh-huh.
[53:43.160 --> 53:44.240]  They didn't know what to do.
[53:44.520 --> 53:46.440]  Yeah, and that's a very interesting point.
[53:46.440 --> 53:51.020]  For instance, cars that tell you how to parallel park.
[53:51.720 --> 53:53.220]  They're very popular now.
[53:53.520 --> 53:57.000]  And people don't know how to park anymore because they rely on that so much.
[53:57.100 --> 53:58.400]  People have GPS to go everywhere.
[53:58.500 --> 54:00.240]  They can't find things themselves without GPS.
[54:00.520 --> 54:01.860]  They're helpless without it.
[54:02.280 --> 54:03.620]  And I just think it's...
[54:03.620 --> 54:08.700]  You know, we need to keep holding on to these skills, not simply automate them all away.
[54:08.840 --> 54:19.120]  And, of course, the other big difference with airplanes is that with airline travel, there's a big infrastructure of radar and controllers and people like that who are all paying attention to the plane, to where the plane is and where it's going, even when the pilot's not.
[54:19.460 --> 54:22.060]  And also, the skies just are not as crowded as the roads.
[54:22.240 --> 54:25.640]  So there's a lot more risk if you put a car under automatic control.
[54:25.660 --> 54:25.860]  Okay.
[54:25.900 --> 54:26.640]  Well, this is a hot topic.
[54:26.740 --> 54:28.300]  We're going to talk about it more, I'm sure, in weeks to come.
[54:28.400 --> 54:30.040]  But we're kind of out of time now.
[54:30.040 --> 54:31.400]  Any final words from any of you?
[54:31.460 --> 54:32.560]  I'm not going to say any more on the subject.
[54:32.840 --> 54:33.940]  Who's insuring these cars?
[54:34.860 --> 54:36.880]  And what happens when you get into a crash with a robot?
[54:37.460 --> 54:38.960]  Do they take the robot's word?
[54:39.060 --> 54:40.220]  Or does the robot fill out the paperwork?
[54:40.440 --> 54:43.140]  And if two of these cars hit each other, do they have computer road rage?
[54:43.320 --> 54:48.000]  Oh, there's so many possible scenarios that we can draw up, Rob.
[54:48.400 --> 54:52.400]  I'd like to thank Rose, Gary, Maria, and Barbara on the winners of our Maker Faire tickets.
[54:52.540 --> 54:53.260]  And we'll see you at the fair.
[54:53.500 --> 54:53.820]  All right.
[54:54.020 --> 54:54.500]  Have a good night.
[54:55.000 --> 54:55.120]  Have
[55:00.620 --> 55:03.080]  a good night.
[56:38.500 --> 56:42.200]  We'll see you next time.
[57:59.090 --> 57:59.310]  We'll see you next time.
[57:59.390 --> 58:13.230]  You hear me coming through your fingers I know you can't get enough of my sound I
[58:34.800 --> 58:38.300]  know you can't get enough of my sound
[58:49.070 --> 58:56.030]  Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, that's how we do it in the hip-hop world Woyled And we'll see you next time.
[58:56.030 --> 58:56.890]  By the way, you're back to my boy The original band is ś We'll see you next time And I'll see you next time Youặ Mick Thank you Thank