[00:01.720 --> 00:07.380]  And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI New York, where the time is 7 o'clock.
[00:07.700 --> 00:09.780]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:15.080 --> 00:16.940]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:17.340 --> 00:19.480]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:20.520 --> 00:22.460]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:23.000 --> 00:24.980]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:25.740 --> 00:27.800]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:30.620 --> 00:33.240]  From Diddley Bump for the best, it's made the worst.
[00:33.920 --> 00:35.760]  I hope that's understood.
[00:35.960 --> 00:36.840]  From Diddley Bump!
[02:06.020 --> 02:07.180]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:07.320 --> 02:08.540]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:08.620 --> 02:11.200]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Mike.
[02:11.400 --> 02:11.500]  Hi.
[02:11.500 --> 02:12.360]  Rob T.
[02:12.620 --> 02:13.120]  Firefly.
[02:13.340 --> 02:13.760]  Good evening.
[02:14.320 --> 02:15.520]  And Jim in the studio.
[02:15.780 --> 02:16.020]  Hello.
[02:16.620 --> 02:18.660]  Down in Pennsylvania somewhere, Bernie S.
[02:18.980 --> 02:19.940]  Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[02:20.220 --> 02:38.840]  Let me start the proceedings by saying that we had a challenge to our listeners to pledge a certain amount or have a certain number of people call in, or not call in, go to the website, wbai.org, and pledge for the WBAI buddy system.
[02:38.840 --> 02:44.060]  And if 20 people did that at $10 a month, we wouldn't have to fundraise tonight.
[02:44.060 --> 02:44.160]  All right.
[02:44.640 --> 02:46.480]  Well, we did not make that goal.
[02:47.420 --> 02:49.220]  I think we didn't even come close.
[02:49.440 --> 02:50.400]  We're not even halfway done.
[02:50.580 --> 02:51.400]  We're not even halfway there.
[02:52.040 --> 02:56.400]  15 people doing that would have made this a fundraising-free program.
[02:57.140 --> 02:58.460]  Unfortunately, we did not make that.
[02:58.460 --> 03:02.900]  Now, it's not all bad news because we're learning as we go along.
[03:03.880 --> 03:05.840]  Next time, we're not on here next week.
[03:05.980 --> 03:09.500]  We will be on in two weeks, and we already are planning a special fundraising show for then.
[03:09.500 --> 03:12.160]  But there are at least two more programs after that.
[03:12.280 --> 03:25.120]  And if we reach the number, if we get to 20 people, by that time, one of those programs, or maybe even more, if we get 40 people, will be fundraising-free, even though it's in the middle of the fund drive.
[03:25.320 --> 03:29.260]  So we're still opening it up to our listeners to do this.
[03:29.780 --> 03:33.140]  So the people who are... there are going to be people who email us tonight.
[03:33.300 --> 03:35.040]  They're going to be like, hi, I don't listen live.
[03:35.040 --> 03:36.620]  I listen to the internet.
[03:37.700 --> 03:39.320]  And I really want to pledge to your show.
[03:39.400 --> 03:40.060]  How can I do it?
[03:40.140 --> 03:41.520]  And we have an answer for you.
[03:41.620 --> 03:43.800]  And that is go on WBAI.org.
[03:43.980 --> 03:46.540]  Look for the BAI buddy thing.
[03:46.940 --> 03:53.540]  Click on it, fill it out, and then send us an email saying your name and that you pledged and that you really like us.
[03:53.860 --> 03:56.860]  You could say you only like us a little bit if that's more honest.
[03:57.420 --> 04:01.260]  And then, so if enough people do that, then we won't have to pledge at the end.
[04:01.720 --> 04:02.120]  Okay.
[04:02.220 --> 04:09.480]  And also, we're offering a special incentive for people, including the people that already have pledged, who are local or who want to be local.
[04:10.380 --> 04:15.660]  We have free tickets to an event on, what is it, Saturday night?
[04:16.260 --> 04:17.540]  What's the date there?
[04:17.700 --> 04:20.060]  The date is Saturday, October 27th.
[04:20.100 --> 04:20.300]  Okay.
[04:20.580 --> 04:22.540]  From the times 1 to 5 p.m.
[04:22.560 --> 04:24.060]  or 6 to 9 p.m.
[04:24.480 --> 04:26.260]  Well, evening will be 6 to 9 p.m.
[04:26.340 --> 04:26.560]  Right.
[04:26.860 --> 04:29.240]  So, what are we offering?
[04:30.240 --> 04:33.960]  I think Bernie knows the most about it, but it's tickets to a haunted house experience.
[04:34.200 --> 04:34.420]  Okay.
[04:34.900 --> 04:46.180]  Well, it's our friend John Huntington, who's been a Hope speaker and been on the show before, is a teacher at the New York City College of Technology.
[04:47.180 --> 04:50.100]  And it's an entertainment technology curriculum.
[04:50.520 --> 04:56.120]  And they do a fundraising thing every year called the Gravesend Inn Haunted Hotel.
[04:56.120 --> 04:57.360]  We've been to it before.
[04:57.520 --> 04:58.180]  It's pretty amazing.
[04:58.500 --> 05:01.340]  I'm going to read a brief description here that he sent us.
[05:01.460 --> 05:11.160]  It says, The Gravesend Inn is an interactive, high-tech, haunted hotel done by the Entertainment Technology Department of the New York City College of Technology's annual fall production.
[05:11.160 --> 05:20.800]  We've been doing it for more than 10 years, and each year we add and revamp the technology and are using many of the exact same technologies as used in places like Disney and Universal.
[05:21.120 --> 05:25.340]  The audience, while unaware, actually runs the entire attraction.
[05:25.340 --> 05:29.340]  And we do some fun stuff with surveillance video that we don't want to give away.
[05:31.120 --> 05:35.980]  So, if you just search online for Gravesend Inn, you can find out about it.
[05:36.340 --> 05:43.140]  And the tickets that you're going to be giving away to pledgers are for the following dates.
[05:43.420 --> 05:44.440]  Well, it's only for one date.
[05:44.560 --> 05:45.920]  It's actually for... what was that again, Rob?
[05:46.040 --> 05:47.140]  Saturday the 27th.
[05:47.240 --> 05:48.700]  And that's the evening show.
[05:48.860 --> 05:50.400]  Yeah, the evening show, 6 to 9 p.m.
[05:50.400 --> 05:51.020]  Okay, cool.
[05:51.340 --> 05:54.040]  And what people have to do is they have to...
[05:54.640 --> 05:58.220]  and those of you who have already pledged, we'll be contacting you, I suppose.
[05:59.060 --> 06:07.360]  If you go to WBAI.org and sign up for the WBAI Buddy System, send us an email saying that you did that, because we won't find out otherwise.
[06:07.700 --> 06:10.100]  And also, let us know if you're interested in attending that show.
[06:10.340 --> 06:11.380]  Again, the date is...
[06:11.380 --> 06:13.680]  Saturday the 27th from 6 to 9 p.m.
[06:13.680 --> 06:13.920]  Okay.
[06:14.120 --> 06:16.000]  You don't have to be there all three hours, but you can if you want to.
[06:16.740 --> 06:19.260]  And we'll set you up for that.
[06:19.260 --> 06:32.480]  And, you know, if you're not local, don't fret, because you still get the WBAI premiums that come with being a BAI Buddy, and you also get all kinds of other fun things that go along with that.
[06:32.620 --> 06:35.620]  So please, WBAI.org, become a BAI Buddy.
[06:35.920 --> 06:48.160]  If you're listening to this show in the future sometime, and if we get, I think, another 15 or 14 more people by the 24th, we can go fundraising free for at least one more night.
[06:48.160 --> 06:49.940]  So that's kind of cool.
[06:50.260 --> 06:52.360]  Tonight, though, it is going to be a fundraiser.
[06:52.480 --> 06:58.820]  And to get into the theme of what that fundraiser is going to be, we have this special presentation.
[07:08.720 --> 07:14.720]  Welcome back, netizens, to this newest edition in Juice Media series of rap news journalism with me, Robert Foster.
[07:14.920 --> 07:19.080]  This evening, we're actively delving in depth to facts which affect all of us who dwell on this internet.
[07:19.240 --> 07:23.840]  And we've got to give a special welcome to all the ladies and agents from the NSA, ASIO, MI5.
[07:23.980 --> 07:29.820]  Glad you're listening in, because today's show is all about surveillance and how it's spreading from the streets into our modems.
[07:29.820 --> 07:36.620]  As we speak, laws are being tacitly written in to implement ways of controlling the expanse of this internet to keep us safe, we're told.
[07:36.780 --> 07:37.400]  But from whom?
[07:37.620 --> 07:40.180]  And will this place ever be the same if these plans go through?
[07:40.300 --> 07:43.180]  To find out, we connect with our first guest to comment on the matter.
[07:43.480 --> 07:45.580]  We're live at the Penopticon with General Baxter.
[07:45.840 --> 07:46.100]  General?
[07:46.260 --> 07:46.460]  Son?
[07:46.620 --> 07:48.040]  Good to have you back again with us.
[07:48.240 --> 07:49.980]  Explain why the state is spying on us.
[07:49.980 --> 07:53.440]  My fellow Oceanians, as you know, we've always been at war with Eurasia.
[07:53.600 --> 07:54.340]  Or is it East Asia?
[07:54.340 --> 07:56.520]  Either way, it's war, and we need division to wage it.
[07:56.620 --> 08:01.460]  But now the proles are connecting online, bypassing these illusory divisions of race, religion, and nationality.
[08:01.560 --> 08:02.660]  Sounds grand to me.
[08:02.780 --> 08:03.620]  It's a catastrophe.
[08:03.980 --> 08:07.660]  Centuries of hard work are being undone, profits are vanishing, and it's due to the internet.
[08:07.880 --> 08:09.060]  It's empowering humanity.
[08:09.260 --> 08:11.740]  We need to get this snafu one to control rapidly.
[08:11.900 --> 08:12.100]  How?
[08:12.220 --> 08:14.460]  Behold the latest weapon in the war of terror.
[08:14.640 --> 08:16.620]  Our greatest invention since 9-11.
[08:17.000 --> 08:18.880]  Guaranteed to keep us free and safe forever.
[08:19.060 --> 08:21.900]  I give you the surveillance state, ladies and generals.
[08:22.260 --> 08:24.220]  Our secret wires log you key style.
[08:24.340 --> 08:26.880]  Monitor every single number on your speed dial.
[08:27.060 --> 08:32.420]  Rewind straight to your position with facial recognition and pinpoint you within 0.03 of a mile.
[08:32.680 --> 08:37.800]  We've put eyes everywhere without consulting you, keeping you safe whether or not you want us to.
[08:37.980 --> 08:40.140]  Soon there'll be no freedoms left for threatening.
[08:40.480 --> 08:41.700]  Then we'll have won the war.
[08:42.000 --> 08:43.080]  Take that terrorism.
[08:43.520 --> 08:43.800]  Brilliant.
[08:44.260 --> 08:44.820]  Thank you, General.
[08:45.020 --> 08:48.380]  We now interview our resident guru, Terrence Moonseed, for a different view.
[08:48.440 --> 08:48.780]  Greetings.
[08:49.120 --> 08:50.420]  How does this situation look?
[08:50.600 --> 08:51.980]  I have one word for you, Robert.
[08:52.200 --> 08:53.520]  Double plus on good.
[08:53.520 --> 08:58.780]  The war on populace of 7.4 billion are all headed in the direction of Orwellian totalitarian oblivion.
[08:58.820 --> 09:03.020]  My voice is hoarse, yelling about stellar winds cold, chilling them in trapwire, weaving through the world wide web.
[09:03.160 --> 09:03.880]  We all dwelling in.
[09:03.960 --> 09:04.480]  Face it.
[09:04.600 --> 09:06.900]  The all-seeing eyes in all of our Facebook's like a virus.
[09:07.020 --> 09:09.320]  And in these iPhones with Siri, or should I say Iris.
[09:09.540 --> 09:12.840]  Next in line is RFID devices and mindshaves triggered by chemtrails.
[09:12.840 --> 09:14.260]  The plague spray the sky with.
[09:14.400 --> 09:15.480]  This time it's too far.
[09:15.660 --> 09:17.120]  Check out the base they're building in Utah.
[09:17.220 --> 09:19.040]  Where they'll be starving all your data for over a century.
[09:19.280 --> 09:19.680]  It's foobar.
[09:19.820 --> 09:21.980]  And under the outback is an entire tunnel of wires.
[09:22.160 --> 09:25.360]  An echelon base called Pine Gap to hijack our mother Gaia.
[09:25.500 --> 09:25.740]  Hey!
[09:25.940 --> 09:27.220]  Maybe your mother's Gaia.
[09:27.340 --> 09:27.800]  Boo hoo!
[09:28.000 --> 09:30.200]  Why didn't you just kill yourself like most of your troops do?
[09:30.320 --> 09:30.860]  That's it.
[09:31.000 --> 09:32.560]  Now you're on the cast iron list.
[09:32.560 --> 09:35.080]  Hang on General, why weren't we informed about this?
[09:35.320 --> 09:37.700]  Sorry we didn't tell you about our grand plan before.
[09:38.000 --> 09:40.240]  It was meant to be a surprise under racks in a store.
[09:40.520 --> 09:42.780]  But some spoilsports had to go and ruin it for all.
[09:42.900 --> 09:45.360]  By blowing whistles in spite of the damn law.
[09:45.520 --> 09:48.400]  Bill, Benny and Thomas Drake are trailblazers for leaking these tactics.
[09:48.540 --> 09:48.740]  Hey!
[09:48.880 --> 09:50.080]  Civil liberty factivists.
[09:50.580 --> 09:50.980]  Activists.
[09:51.060 --> 09:51.900]  This is all legal.
[09:52.060 --> 09:53.380]  Anything we do now actually is.
[09:53.400 --> 09:53.780]  How did...
[09:53.780 --> 09:55.200]  You can't question my authority.
[09:55.520 --> 09:56.100]  Thanks to this.
[09:56.220 --> 09:57.640]  And that's just global people.
[09:57.820 --> 10:01.300]  In Australia it's now legal for the government to store all SMS's, searches and emails.
[10:01.300 --> 10:03.200]  Australians, it's taking place under your nose.
[10:03.340 --> 10:06.300]  Unless you wake up, all your data are belong to ACO.
[10:06.500 --> 10:07.640]  Come on, everyone knows.
[10:07.760 --> 10:08.980]  You can trust the government now.
[10:09.160 --> 10:11.480]  If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about.
[10:11.620 --> 10:13.760]  That might be the case with things that are happening now.
[10:13.780 --> 10:16.900]  Because most people agree with most of the laws that are being handed down.
[10:17.080 --> 10:21.840]  But once the Illuminati reveal their agenda for you, this surveillance will enforce laws you no longer consent to.
[10:21.980 --> 10:23.880]  But by then it'll be too late to protest too.
[10:24.060 --> 10:27.440]  And anything you've ever said, time to browse, can and will be used against you.
[10:27.600 --> 10:28.220]  I'm confused.
[10:28.540 --> 10:29.680]  So what should we do then?
[10:29.820 --> 10:30.380]  What should we do?
[10:30.540 --> 10:30.900]  Nothing.
[10:30.900 --> 10:32.120]  This is all an illusion.
[10:32.480 --> 10:35.300]  It's just a ride, a delusion, the Matrix, the Maya deceiving us.
[10:35.440 --> 10:37.780]  Oh, you hippies really make our job so much easier.
[10:37.920 --> 10:42.160]  Sorry to interrupt, but we're picking up a signal from beyond the space-time continuum.
[10:42.520 --> 10:44.680]  Quick, switch on the juice channeling portal.
[10:45.920 --> 10:48.120]  Wait, is that George Orwell?
[10:48.300 --> 10:48.820]  Good day, George.
[10:49.140 --> 10:50.860]  Wow, what do we owe this honour to?
[10:50.980 --> 10:53.600]  I tried to warn you, noobs, but I see you were actually fools.
[10:53.740 --> 10:55.920]  What else you thought this was an instruction manual?
[10:56.120 --> 10:57.720]  Yes, so can you advise us?
[10:57.800 --> 10:58.680]  What would you have us do?
[10:58.680 --> 11:03.760]  An open and universal internet is the most effective tool you have to address the issues that afflict the world at hand.
[11:03.920 --> 11:07.640]  Therefore, protecting it is the most essential task that stands before your generation.
[11:07.640 --> 11:08.820]  I think I understand.
[11:09.100 --> 11:09.600]  Hush, man.
[11:09.780 --> 11:11.040]  You must not lose the internet.
[11:11.280 --> 11:11.980]  Heed this mantra.
[11:12.220 --> 11:14.140]  Who controls the internet controls the data.
[11:14.300 --> 11:16.580]  And who controls the data controls the future.
[11:16.760 --> 11:17.420]  We're losing you.
[11:17.540 --> 11:19.060]  I leave you with a tool to use.
[11:19.200 --> 11:19.540]  An onion?
[11:19.760 --> 11:20.640]  Don't be simple, Robert.
[11:20.760 --> 11:21.620]  This is but a simile.
[11:21.820 --> 11:22.540]  It stands for Tor.
[11:22.660 --> 11:22.840]  Tor?
[11:22.920 --> 11:23.360]  Google it.
[11:23.460 --> 11:24.320]  It's for anonymity.
[11:24.480 --> 11:29.900]  This onion router open network helps considerably against tyranny, but its abilities only work if all you f***ers use it consistently.
[11:30.180 --> 11:31.760]  And even if you don't use it, run it.
[11:31.820 --> 11:32.420]  So it's forced.
[11:32.760 --> 11:33.860]  Well, thanks, Mr. Orwell.
[11:33.860 --> 11:35.920]  From now on, call me George Torwell.
[11:36.120 --> 11:41.500]  If we'd had such tools when I wrote this, well, it would have been so much simpler to tell Big Brother to go f*** himself.
[11:41.880 --> 11:43.160]  The mother f***ing.
[11:43.760 --> 11:45.080]  Sucking piece of s***.
[11:45.720 --> 11:50.760]  Thanks, George Torwell, for manifesting direct from this memory hole of history to impress on us these messages.
[11:50.960 --> 11:53.020]  We're told we need safety, which is precious, yes.
[11:53.200 --> 11:55.860]  But can a society that can enforce all its laws ever progress?
[11:56.260 --> 12:01.160]  Hindsight shows that many figures guilty of fraud crime turned out to be luminaries and heroes before their time.
[12:01.160 --> 12:06.280]  But if a surveillance state had reigned then in this form and design, just think of all the progress we may have all been denied.
[12:06.620 --> 12:09.100]  Could lobbies for women's or gay rights have appeared and thrived?
[12:09.240 --> 12:11.540]  Would revolutionary ideals have materialized?
[12:11.680 --> 12:16.820]  Would science have pioneered or even survived if every word had been monitored by thought police and spies?
[12:17.040 --> 12:19.660]  Big Brother brings chilling effects, freezing our collective hopes.
[12:19.800 --> 12:28.100]  He doesn't protect our safety, but protects the status quo and threatens this internet, the one channel yet uncontrolled, whose openness we are now called upon to effect and uphold.
[12:58.010 --> 13:00.350]  Wow, that was pretty cool.
[13:00.450 --> 13:00.810]  Rob T.
[13:00.950 --> 13:01.950]  Firefly, what was that?
[13:02.170 --> 13:05.770]  That was the latest edition of Rap News, which is by The Juice Media.
[13:05.950 --> 13:08.450]  You can find them on YouTube and other places.
[13:08.550 --> 13:12.730]  And we've played them before on this show, and I suspect we will do in the future.
[13:12.770 --> 13:14.470]  They just keep cranking up brilliant things.
[13:14.530 --> 13:19.310]  Well, they certainly have intro'd us into tonight's theme, and tonight's theme is surveillance.
[13:19.590 --> 13:24.050]  And we were talking about surveillance before with relation to various other things.
[13:24.050 --> 13:25.830]  We've talked about it many times in this program.
[13:26.870 --> 13:30.830]  And tonight, we are offering all kinds of surveillance-related things.
[13:31.630 --> 13:35.410]  But first, let me introduce, joining us on the phone, is Kyle out in Seattle.
[13:35.770 --> 13:36.450]  Are you there, Kyle?
[13:36.890 --> 13:37.250]  Hello.
[13:37.490 --> 13:38.130]  Yes, I'm here.
[13:38.250 --> 13:38.630]  How are you doing?
[13:39.530 --> 13:40.490]  I'm pretty well.
[13:40.750 --> 13:40.970]  Okay.
[13:41.110 --> 13:42.670]  Yeah, you went on a long bike ride today, I understand.
[13:44.030 --> 13:46.590]  Yeah, I was out there for like five or six hours.
[13:46.910 --> 13:49.610]  Okay, well, you're probably pretty tuckered out.
[13:49.630 --> 13:50.630]  I can understand that.
[13:51.430 --> 13:55.030]  And so we'll try to keep it simple and not too strenuous here.
[13:55.750 --> 13:56.950]  You are half.
[13:57.170 --> 14:02.810]  Well, actually, yeah, you're one of actually several people that have poured their heart into the hacker calendar.
[14:03.170 --> 14:06.310]  We did this last year, and the theme was telephony.
[14:06.670 --> 14:10.870]  But this year, and by this year, I mean 2013, because the next calendar is for next year.
[14:12.030 --> 14:13.550]  The theme is surveillance.
[14:13.550 --> 14:18.910]  And you've taken half the shots, half the photos that appear in this calendar.
[14:20.010 --> 14:32.150]  And I got to say, between you and Dave Buchwald, who did the other half of the shots, there are some really amazing pictures here of surveillance in our world, low-tech and high-tech.
[14:32.550 --> 14:39.650]  And I think this is something that will be on the walls of many people's homes and offices in the next year.
[14:40.110 --> 14:41.830]  And it's something that we're offering tonight.
[14:41.830 --> 14:43.490]  But first, let's describe it a little bit.
[14:44.170 --> 14:47.450]  Kyle, would you like to say something about what it was like to put this together?
[14:48.550 --> 14:49.330]  Oh, wow.
[14:49.430 --> 14:52.210]  Well, see, you're talking about the 2013 calendar.
[14:52.970 --> 14:57.350]  And actually, I was just switching over my 2012 calendar.
[14:57.530 --> 15:00.170]  That was the first hacker calendar that we did.
[15:00.930 --> 15:02.270]  And it was the same group.
[15:02.370 --> 15:04.730]  Dave was doing half, and I did the other half of the photos.
[15:05.650 --> 15:14.070]  And his photo for October of 2012 is the Thomas Street building, which is a big central office in New York City.
[15:14.250 --> 15:26.850]  And that actually ties in with surveillance a little bit because that's where a lot of the alleged NSA kind of siphoning off of data and all of that stuff is happening.
[15:26.870 --> 15:38.570]  That was one of the buildings, I think, that was referred to as a part of what the NSA is trying to do as far as collect everything, which was mentioned in the track, the Juice media track.
[15:39.670 --> 15:45.390]  So, yeah, the calendar is basically a little bit of Dave's photos, a little bit of mine.
[15:46.410 --> 15:51.510]  And we went out and produced a lot of the stuff for the 2013 calendar.
[15:52.470 --> 15:53.990]  We did some field production.
[15:54.210 --> 15:55.030]  We traveled a bit.
[15:55.270 --> 15:55.790]  We sure did.
[15:55.890 --> 15:57.290]  We went to some interesting places.
[15:57.290 --> 15:58.790]  We got into a bit of trouble, too.
[15:58.870 --> 16:00.950]  We'll get into that in just a couple of minutes.
[16:00.950 --> 16:03.510]  But, yeah, you know, you were mentioning this.
[16:03.710 --> 16:09.170]  The first calendar was basically a collection of photos that you guys happened to take over the years.
[16:09.330 --> 16:14.610]  But this one, you guys really went out and sought out some things.
[16:14.750 --> 16:16.670]  And surveillance is a fascinating topic.
[16:16.810 --> 16:22.650]  And it's really interesting, too, because the people in charge of surveillance never want you taking pictures of them.
[16:22.690 --> 16:24.730]  And that's, of course, what we love to do.
[16:25.430 --> 16:28.170]  So, yeah, going all the way over to the UK to get shots.
[16:28.170 --> 16:30.010]  And you got some really fantastic shots.
[16:30.010 --> 16:31.410]  We're going to describe them in just a moment.
[16:31.550 --> 16:38.950]  But first, let me just say to the people that are interested in obtaining this as quickly as possible, the phone number is 212-209-2950.
[16:39.450 --> 16:50.790]  And what you'll get for a pledge of $50, only $50, you will get two of these calendars signed by the three of us, myself, because I did a lot of the research onto the calendar dates.
[16:50.790 --> 16:51.750]  And we'll get into that in a moment.
[16:51.850 --> 16:58.070]  I didn't take any pictures, but I sure looked into a lot of hacker history here and pretty sick of it, to be honest.
[16:59.690 --> 17:04.690]  But Kyle took half the photos throughout various parts of the world, and Dave took the other half.
[17:05.150 --> 17:07.830]  And you'll get all of our autographs on there for what that's worth.
[17:07.870 --> 17:11.910]  We won't cover up any really good-looking picture with our scroll.
[17:12.570 --> 17:14.330]  For a pledge of $50, you'll get two of those.
[17:14.410 --> 17:17.230]  And the reason we're sending two is because maybe you want to give one as a gift.
[17:17.410 --> 17:18.250]  It's quite possible.
[17:18.430 --> 17:21.970]  So you're saying where the signatures are, you'll know that's the worst picture?
[17:22.170 --> 17:22.570]  No, no, no.
[17:22.630 --> 17:24.110]  We won't scroll it over a picture.
[17:24.210 --> 17:25.390]  We'll put it on the white.
[17:25.450 --> 17:26.290]  People complain about that.
[17:26.290 --> 17:28.810]  They say, what'd you sign on my favorite picture for?
[17:28.910 --> 17:29.870]  You ruined the whole thing.
[17:30.010 --> 17:31.090]  You know, I've heard that.
[17:31.090 --> 17:31.570]  You wouldn't want that.
[17:31.690 --> 17:35.310]  So you'll sign on the white part, which there's a little bit of, but it's really, it's a big photograph.
[17:35.550 --> 17:36.430]  We could sign on the dates.
[17:36.550 --> 17:37.770]  We could sign, yeah, we could sign on...
[17:37.770 --> 17:38.910]  There's lots of white space.
[17:39.170 --> 17:40.990]  I have a question, which none of our listeners are going to care about.
[17:41.070 --> 17:44.530]  Why is the 2012 winter solstice blacked out?
[17:44.530 --> 17:49.810]  Well, because, first of all, it's blacked out on the 2012 calendar.
[17:50.170 --> 17:56.410]  And the 2013 calendar, as many calendars do, has the last four months of 2012 on a single page.
[17:56.410 --> 17:58.630]  So you can start using it immediately.
[17:58.630 --> 18:01.470]  You can install this calendar in your home right away.
[18:01.470 --> 18:03.170]  You don't have to wait until January 1st.
[18:03.330 --> 18:12.130]  And of course, as many of us know, December 21st is the date that has been marked as, well, possibly, possibly, we're supposed to say possibly, the end of the world.
[18:12.670 --> 18:14.690]  Because we don't know for sure it's going to be the end of the world.
[18:14.770 --> 18:18.810]  But if it is, if it is, you know, because it's a big black square on December.
[18:19.690 --> 18:21.970]  You don't need a 2013 calendar in that case.
[18:22.070 --> 18:23.470]  But I don't think the world's going to end.
[18:23.650 --> 18:31.930]  And if the world is going to end, then you should support WBAI, who will tell you more than anyone about how the ending is going.
[18:31.970 --> 18:32.290]  Oh, of course.
[18:32.470 --> 18:32.970]  Yes, Kyle?
[18:34.470 --> 18:37.010]  Well, we're erring on the side of optimism.
[18:37.210 --> 18:42.350]  We decided, what the heck, we'll just, we'll come out with the 2013 calendar.
[18:42.630 --> 18:45.730]  As you pointed out, this theme is surveillance.
[18:46.070 --> 18:54.010]  The first calendar, we had our original art of mostly telephones and this telco building, as I described.
[18:54.310 --> 19:04.970]  And I did also want to speak to something you said, Emmanuel, that you did an outstanding, a truly outstanding job compiling a lot of the dates and the info.
[19:04.970 --> 19:09.370]  And we really filled in more than, like, your typical holidays and things like that.
[19:09.430 --> 19:37.430]  And I want to also thank the supporters and listeners of Off the Hook and WBAI, as well as readers of the magazine, who contributed, because that was, basically, we compiled a whole lot of information from people that had suggestions for important moments in either recent hacker history or very distant or tangential hacker history.
[19:37.690 --> 19:42.670]  So that was one thing that was just amazing is how filled up the actual days are.
[19:42.790 --> 19:47.830]  And as you guys were speaking to, the end of the world and whatnot is noted on there as well.
[19:47.930 --> 19:54.190]  Thanks for saying outstanding because usually people say manic and, well, you know, I do take that as a compliment as well.
[19:54.430 --> 19:57.210]  I know outstanding is more of an unconditional compliment.
[19:57.210 --> 20:03.990]  So, yes, I did pour many hours into tracking things down and getting things right and checking sources and then checking them again.
[20:04.290 --> 20:06.230]  Yeah, and it really is incredible.
[20:06.250 --> 20:13.610]  I'm flipping through this calendar and you see on a lot of themed calendars a couple of things written on days here and there besides the standard holidays and whatnot.
[20:13.990 --> 20:21.350]  But most of the days on here, I would venture to say, the majority of the days have something on them and a lot of them have multiple things on them.
[20:21.490 --> 20:28.890]  So it's really, there are really lots of lessons to be learned from this calendar as to days in hacker history and significant other events.
[20:29.130 --> 20:30.030]  There is just so much going on.
[20:30.030 --> 20:33.290]  I just found out that Gary McKinnon was apparently indicted on my birthday.
[20:33.950 --> 20:35.130]  I did not know that before.
[20:35.310 --> 20:36.930]  And that sort of makes you complicit in that.
[20:37.270 --> 20:38.390]  You'll find out many things.
[20:38.450 --> 20:43.210]  If you look at your birthday on this hacker calendar, you will find out something that happened that might shock you.
[20:43.270 --> 20:43.830]  What's today's date?
[20:43.910 --> 20:44.450]  Does anybody know?
[20:45.310 --> 20:45.950]  It's October.
[20:46.190 --> 20:46.490]  Look it up.
[20:46.590 --> 20:47.210]  There's a calendar somewhere.
[20:47.590 --> 20:48.510]  Oh, wait a minute.
[20:48.630 --> 20:49.250]  October 3rd.
[20:49.270 --> 20:49.490]  Sorry.
[20:50.110 --> 20:50.670]  Oh, look at that.
[20:50.710 --> 20:51.210]  October 3rd.
[20:51.270 --> 20:52.950]  Okay, look at all the things that happened on October 3rd.
[20:53.030 --> 20:53.630]  Wow, look at that.
[20:53.630 --> 20:54.990]  Okay, let's start.
[20:56.390 --> 20:57.610]  Microwave Communications, Inc.
[20:57.910 --> 20:59.490]  was founded in 1963.
[20:59.630 --> 21:03.830]  Have you guys ever heard of Microwave Communications, Inc.?
[21:03.830 --> 21:04.510]  Is that MCI?
[21:04.630 --> 21:05.370]  That is MCI.
[21:05.490 --> 21:06.030]  Very good, Mike.
[21:06.070 --> 21:07.790]  Yes, that was the company.
[21:09.130 --> 21:10.330]  1963 that was founded.
[21:10.670 --> 21:11.410]  That's the kind of thing...
[21:11.410 --> 21:12.610]  When did it go out of business?
[21:12.770 --> 21:13.350]  Is it on there too?
[21:13.370 --> 21:13.850]  It has not gone out of business.
[21:14.010 --> 21:16.590]  It merged with Verizon and became something evil.
[21:16.590 --> 21:17.610]  But that's not all.
[21:17.790 --> 21:21.710]  Many of these dates have more than one entry and October 3rd is no exception to that.
[21:22.190 --> 21:31.890]  Email storm generated at Department of Homeland Security causing more than 2.2 million messages to be sent exposing the names of hundreds of security professionals.
[21:32.030 --> 21:33.550]  That happened in 2007.
[21:34.150 --> 21:38.950]  So, you know, that's a fact that you probably wouldn't be aware of unless you had the hacker calendar.
[21:39.090 --> 21:42.010]  So again, let's get out the information because we have several levels here.
[21:42.330 --> 21:55.310]  $50, you will get two of these calendars autographed by the three of us For $75, you will get the calendars plus 15 separate talks from various HOPE conferences that deal with the topic of surveillance.
[21:55.550 --> 22:08.870]  Everything from William Binney, the NSA whistleblower to Steve Rambam who tells you all kinds of things about how your privacy does not exist anymore to various spies and government people.
[22:09.050 --> 22:09.950]  Fascinating stuff.
[22:10.090 --> 22:10.710]  Absolutely fascinating.
[22:10.850 --> 22:21.390]  You'll get those 15 DVDs along with the two calendars for a pledge of $75 to 212-209-2950 and we have one final level for $125.
[22:21.930 --> 22:23.310]  You will get all of that.
[22:23.510 --> 22:34.470]  You'll get the calendars, you'll get the DVDs and one of those amazing spy pens so that you can become big brother yourself and stick a pen someplace and spy on somebody.
[22:35.730 --> 22:37.050]  I guess that sounds pretty evil.
[22:37.310 --> 22:40.990]  We offered this before and we got an overwhelming response to it.
[22:41.290 --> 22:42.990]  We got complaints from the phone company.
[22:43.050 --> 22:44.090]  So many calls were coming in.
[22:44.250 --> 22:46.090]  What it is, it looks like a pen.
[22:46.330 --> 22:47.450]  I think you can even write with it.
[22:47.630 --> 22:47.990]  It is a pen.
[22:48.010 --> 22:48.330]  It is a pen.
[22:48.350 --> 22:49.150]  You can write with it.
[22:49.230 --> 22:50.430]  In an emergency, you can write with it.
[22:50.510 --> 22:55.430]  And you would never suspect if someone was just carrying a pen around, you'd be like, oh, they must like to write.
[22:55.910 --> 23:05.630]  But what they might be doing is spying on you, recording the video and then they can upload the video to their computer and look at it and see everything that the pen saw.
[23:05.990 --> 23:07.770]  You can be the they in that scenario.
[23:08.010 --> 23:10.030]  You can be the person with the secret pen.
[23:10.690 --> 23:12.370]  Pledge $125 or more.
[23:12.490 --> 23:13.930]  Oh, where's that ringing coming from?
[23:13.970 --> 23:14.570]  I don't like that.
[23:14.690 --> 23:15.290]  Oh, I'm throwing that down.
[23:15.410 --> 23:16.430]  Okay, I hate that sound.
[23:16.990 --> 23:18.430]  I love the sound of calls coming in.
[23:18.510 --> 23:18.990]  Don't get me wrong.
[23:18.990 --> 23:22.010]  I just don't like the sound on the air all the time like some people do.
[23:22.650 --> 23:23.270]  I'm sorry, continue.
[23:23.330 --> 23:24.770]  Anyway, I was going to say the phone number.
[23:25.430 --> 23:25.630]  Go ahead.
[23:25.730 --> 23:26.510]  Someone already knows it.
[23:26.630 --> 23:31.210]  Which is 212-209-2950, country code 1, if that's important to you.
[23:32.030 --> 23:33.010]  How am I still getting...
[23:33.010 --> 23:33.590]  I turned it down.
[23:33.670 --> 23:34.150]  Where's it coming from?
[23:34.210 --> 23:34.710]  Is it that one?
[23:34.910 --> 23:35.790]  All right, maybe it's over there now.
[23:36.110 --> 23:36.430]  Wow.
[23:36.510 --> 23:42.870]  Well, the calls are coming in, as you can see, and apparently we have a new ringer because that used to be a bell, an old-fashioned, like, what, 501 bell, Kyle?
[23:43.690 --> 23:46.470]  Oh, yeah, a mall 500 or something.
[23:46.890 --> 23:51.870]  And it seems that it's been upgraded and now it's a digital desk phone.
[23:52.030 --> 23:55.870]  Well, I can tell you we have two calls on the line and let's bring in some more.
[23:56.090 --> 23:57.610]  Again, the spy pens are really cool.
[23:58.110 --> 24:01.790]  Now, I know some people out there might be saying, hey, wait, what gives here?
[24:01.810 --> 24:02.970]  I pledged for a spy pen.
[24:03.090 --> 24:04.590]  The last fundraiser, I still haven't gotten it.
[24:04.830 --> 24:06.970]  Yes, the order is still coming in.
[24:07.130 --> 24:08.150]  We have not forgotten you.
[24:08.250 --> 24:09.170]  We've got everybody's names.
[24:09.310 --> 24:09.970]  Everyone's getting them.
[24:10.130 --> 24:15.250]  The order is going to be delivered pretty much with a bunch of extras and they'll probably all go out at the same time.
[24:15.350 --> 24:21.310]  So if you pledge for it now, you won't have to wait the amount of time that the people who pledged last time and we're sorry to them for having to wait.
[24:21.310 --> 24:30.290]  Sometimes we just get backlogged, but we're ordering a whole bunch of them and they should be pretty cool and fun and amazing.
[24:30.910 --> 24:34.950]  Steve Rombon actually talked to me about these and he said they're a lot of fun to play with.
[24:35.030 --> 24:40.250]  And if he says something is a lot of fun to play with, I would believe him because he spends his life doing this kind of thing.
[24:40.850 --> 24:42.910]  So again, 212-209-2950.
[24:42.910 --> 24:46.010]  $50, you get the two calendars, the two surveillance calendars.
[24:46.270 --> 24:50.590]  75, the calendars plus 15 separate talks from the HOPE conferences on surveillance.
[24:50.590 --> 24:57.510]  And $125, you get all of that plus an amazing spy pen that actually will record video and audio.
[24:57.790 --> 25:02.990]  I was just reviewing the list of talks that come with the $75 pledge.
[25:02.990 --> 25:05.410]  It comes with the $125 as well, the DVDs.
[25:05.610 --> 25:15.950]  So, and one of the talks on there is Jong Young and his wife, Debra, from Cryptome, who have a thing on the New York Police Department's Ring of Steel.
[25:16.070 --> 25:16.630]  Oh, yes.
[25:16.790 --> 25:23.530]  Which is, and they've gone and they've mapped the whole thing and there's a talk about it and I didn't see the talk which is really sad.
[25:23.530 --> 25:24.050]  Well, now you can.
[25:24.130 --> 25:30.230]  If you pledge, you can see the talk because you'll get the DVDs in the mail and you can just put it in your DVD player and watch.
[25:30.550 --> 25:34.930]  And, yeah, the Krypton folks, they are some of our favorite people in the world.
[25:35.050 --> 25:43.370]  They've been on this show and, boy, they are vital resources not only here in New York City but throughout the world for the information that they get out.
[25:43.550 --> 25:44.530]  And they've been doing it.
[25:44.630 --> 25:45.330]  They know their stuff.
[25:45.410 --> 25:46.630]  They've been doing it for years.
[25:46.630 --> 25:49.990]  And they shared some of this with us at Hope No.
[25:50.070 --> 25:52.230]  9 and they'll share it with you if you pledge.
[25:52.690 --> 25:54.270]  212-209-2950.
[25:54.590 --> 25:59.570]  And for that pledge of $75, you will get that talk by Krypton plus 14 others.
[26:00.010 --> 26:05.950]  I don't know where you could get 15 DVDs full of interesting content for $75 anywhere.
[26:06.210 --> 26:12.530]  But in return for $75, we'll give you those and we'll give you two of our calendars signed by the people who made them.
[26:12.630 --> 26:15.090]  And I just think that's an incredible deal.
[26:15.090 --> 26:22.290]  But of course, most importantly, you get this radio station and you keep this venue alive for people like us and listeners like you.
[26:22.390 --> 26:23.390]  Let me correct you on something, Rob.
[26:23.610 --> 26:26.310]  You say they'll get 14 of the DVDs.
[26:26.450 --> 26:28.310]  Some of the talks are more than one DVD.
[26:28.530 --> 26:30.570]  So you'll actually get more than 15 DVDs.
[26:30.590 --> 26:35.010]  You'll get 15 talks but some of them are more than one DVD so you'll get more than 15 DVDs.
[26:35.030 --> 26:41.430]  And try buying 15 movies or 15 TV show DVDs for anything around $75.
[26:41.490 --> 26:42.310]  You can't do it.
[26:42.390 --> 26:43.070]  I don't think you can do it.
[26:43.070 --> 26:45.330]  Again, 212-209-2950.
[26:45.510 --> 26:50.510]  Frontlines are open now and again, we have those three pledge levels and those are the pledge levels that we will have tonight.
[26:50.510 --> 26:55.870]  That's everything we are offering but we're only offering it until 8 o'clock our time.
[26:56.530 --> 26:58.430]  So that's how it goes.
[26:58.430 --> 27:05.870]  If you're listening after that, well, we've already gone over some of the options that you have for that but it won't include this.
[27:06.110 --> 27:08.550]  And the reason for that is because we're practically...
[27:08.550 --> 27:09.410]  Actually, we are giving it away.
[27:09.550 --> 27:10.250]  Not practically giving.
[27:10.250 --> 27:18.010]  We are giving it away to the radio station and we can't give it away 24 hours a day otherwise our supply would soon be depleted.
[27:18.930 --> 27:20.710]  Now, Kyle, let's go over some of the shots.
[27:20.830 --> 27:21.810]  I know the cover...
[27:21.810 --> 27:23.310]  The cover is not your shot.
[27:23.410 --> 27:24.350]  That's one of Dave's shots.
[27:24.470 --> 27:26.530]  But would you like to describe it to us?
[27:27.290 --> 27:27.610]  Yes.
[27:27.750 --> 27:27.950]  Yeah.
[27:28.090 --> 27:29.330]  The cover was really fun.
[27:29.330 --> 27:33.750]  I got the honor of being on the cover of the first calendar.
[27:34.340 --> 27:37.670]  And this one, Dave had the opportunity to do it.
[27:37.750 --> 27:40.370]  And he put something really iconic on...
[27:40.370 --> 27:42.510]  It was sort of...
[27:42.510 --> 27:45.590]  kind of beat up, old...
[27:46.910 --> 27:58.030]  hard to make out, but classic peephole in the outside of a door you might find in a building or something like that.
[27:58.030 --> 28:15.690]  And this was chosen for the cover and it basically speaks to the theme of peering out somebody on one side looking out and authenticating who's out there and that kind of thing.
[28:16.210 --> 28:17.790]  So it's kind of a...
[28:17.790 --> 28:20.130]  At first glance, you can't tell...
[28:20.130 --> 28:36.310]  You can see that it's a door and stuff, but it's hard to make out that it's a people and you can make it out with its big brass plating and the old name cards or whatever sort of tarnished or disintegrating.
[28:36.490 --> 28:37.930]  Well, that's what makes it so intriguing to me.
[28:38.010 --> 28:41.250]  It looks sort of like, you know, the Eye of Hal in 2001.
[28:41.330 --> 28:43.670]  You're looking at this thing wondering, what is this?
[28:43.750 --> 28:45.390]  What is this thing staring at me?
[28:45.450 --> 28:46.790]  And then it comes to you.
[28:46.930 --> 28:50.030]  You realize, wow, that is a peephole in just a normal door.
[28:50.270 --> 28:56.110]  The most rudimentary of surveillance devices that exist out there and that are everywhere.
[28:57.050 --> 28:57.670]  For sure.
[28:57.790 --> 28:58.090]  For sure.
[28:58.350 --> 28:58.750]  Now...
[28:58.750 --> 29:01.010]  I don't know exactly where he found that.
[29:01.550 --> 29:03.690]  I don't know the background behind it, but...
[29:03.690 --> 29:12.590]  I think he just walked up to a door, I believe somewhere in Brooklyn, and just snapped that shot, which, you know, if somebody was looking out at that peephole at the time, it must have really freaked them out.
[29:12.790 --> 29:13.890]  There's a lot of doors in Brooklyn.
[29:14.050 --> 29:14.650]  There are.
[29:14.830 --> 29:15.110]  There are.
[29:15.210 --> 29:17.870]  And he tested out several hundred before he found the one that worked.
[29:17.990 --> 29:36.150]  But let's move on to the photo that graces the walls of people who hang the calendar up right now because four months are represented on this page because it's a 2013 calendar, but like we mentioned, the last four months of 2012 are featured on one page so that you can start using it immediately.
[29:36.350 --> 29:43.690]  So for September, October, November, and December, there is a photo of King's Cross Station that Kyle took.
[29:43.830 --> 29:50.790]  And this is one of my favorites because you see the motion of very busy people walking through the station.
[29:51.030 --> 29:53.650]  You just see kind of the blur of the people there.
[29:53.730 --> 30:02.610]  But then, if you look above them, you see what appears to be an endless row of surveillance cameras just goes on into the distance.
[30:03.170 --> 30:05.350]  That was an amazing place, wasn't it, Kyle?
[30:05.950 --> 30:10.670]  Yeah, I was really taken by this station.
[30:10.830 --> 30:27.050]  It's really cool the way they remodeled it, keeping some of the old structure and facade, but also integrating these enormous metal beams and, I don't know, gantries or rigging.
[30:27.130 --> 30:45.610]  I don't know what it is, but they hold up this amazing glass ceiling and people just are milling about and it seems every shoulder width or so apart above this one entryway, some domed cameras are looking, are peering down over every...
[30:45.610 --> 30:49.890]  no more than like two shoulder lengths for each camera, it seems.
[30:50.110 --> 30:53.210]  That's just how they're blanketing every person.
[30:53.470 --> 30:56.450]  And you'd think, you know, who's going to walk...
[30:56.450 --> 30:58.410]  who's going to do something right there?
[30:58.590 --> 31:00.690]  What is it possibly in the field of view?
[31:00.810 --> 31:01.750]  It's sort of absurd.
[31:01.950 --> 31:03.650]  And the whole station was like that.
[31:03.810 --> 31:11.590]  I remember, we've talked about this, I think mentioned it before, but when we were there, I did sort of a panorama, just turn around and count it.
[31:11.730 --> 31:16.730]  And I looked at every single angle and tried to count as many cameras as I could.
[31:16.850 --> 31:26.530]  And in that particular spot, just adjacent to where I was photographing this, there was at least 70, I think, between 60 and 70 cameras.
[31:26.610 --> 31:29.850]  70 cameras that you could see standing in one space?
[31:30.090 --> 31:32.830]  Yeah, just turning around and pointing and counting them.
[31:33.030 --> 31:38.370]  Either they were up on the second floor or covering the escalator or other entryways.
[31:38.370 --> 31:42.830]  I just spun around, like pivoted around and counted every single camera.
[31:43.010 --> 31:46.650]  And do you realize there's a recording of you doing that from 70 different angles now?
[31:48.130 --> 31:56.050]  Yeah, there's probably a photo of that incident of me spinning around from 70 different angles.
[31:56.110 --> 31:59.430]  And this represents something that we learned in England.
[31:59.450 --> 32:02.190]  These are public places.
[32:02.190 --> 32:16.030]  So the scheme, which is what they refer to these surveillance systems as the scheme is managed by the railway and thus, to some degree, the government.
[32:16.290 --> 32:21.130]  So it's implemented with probably a lot of money and it's integrated.
[32:21.470 --> 32:35.650]  There are other systems and we learned this as a part of researching and doing a bit of the field production that, you know, a small convenience store, similar to what we would have here, doesn't have an integrated system.
[32:35.790 --> 32:38.730]  It's not connected via a network or something like that.
[32:38.870 --> 32:43.970]  So in a train station, you have the expectation you can actually ask for copies of video.
[32:44.110 --> 32:50.110]  So I could, if I was a citizen or maybe even as a traveler, request video of me spinning around counting cameras.
[32:50.210 --> 32:51.870]  Can you request 70 different...
[32:51.870 --> 32:53.390]  That would be amazing if you could do that.
[32:53.490 --> 32:54.830]  But yeah, I've heard from people...
[32:54.830 --> 32:55.450]  Remember this stuff to you?
[32:55.570 --> 32:56.670]  We learned about this.
[32:56.710 --> 33:08.510]  I've heard from people in London that you can request if you know that you're in a particular public space and that you are on CCTV, which is what they call the surveillance cameras or surveillance network, you can request that for whatever reason.
[33:08.670 --> 33:18.110]  I think they might be trying to cut down on that because so many people are requesting it that maybe it's tying up their actual surveillance needs or they have to hire all kinds of new people.
[33:18.770 --> 33:32.610]  I would guarantee you or I would say that these settings, the system would almost certainly give you tape of some sort because it is integrated and it's a public space.
[33:32.750 --> 33:40.050]  If it's a pizza place or something like that, it's like us going to a convenience store here and asking a private citizen to hand those tapes.
[33:40.230 --> 33:41.090]  It may take a while.
[33:41.230 --> 33:44.190]  They may not be willing and there may be reasons why I would...
[33:44.190 --> 33:53.930]  But in this place, that system probably would work and we learned the distinction when we were moving about in England and researching the schemes they have there.
[33:54.110 --> 33:57.290]  And one thing we really learned in London is that it's everywhere.
[33:57.290 --> 34:11.610]  It's very hard to avoid being on camera someplace from one of these many, many public cameras that are just fixated on lampposts, inside buses, on trains, on street corners and train stations.
[34:12.110 --> 34:25.790]  And folks, this is the future because the United States is looking at London and taking notes and you're seeing more and more cameras popping up every place and people are basically buying into the whole thing that this is how you stay secure.
[34:25.930 --> 34:27.090]  This is how you stay safe.
[34:27.490 --> 34:31.630]  And I got to say, you know, no disrespect to London, but it's not the safest city in the world.
[34:31.750 --> 34:32.970]  People don't feel secure there.
[34:33.070 --> 34:33.390]  They...
[34:33.390 --> 34:36.490]  It's like any big city where crime happens.
[34:36.690 --> 34:37.570]  And okay, you know what?
[34:37.590 --> 34:42.210]  You can see maybe some video of the crime after it happens, but it sure doesn't prevent it.
[34:42.330 --> 34:47.370]  And I think that's something that we've learned, we've focused on on this particular program time and time again.
[34:48.230 --> 34:49.930]  But boy, is it ever fascinating.
[34:50.210 --> 34:55.410]  And these pictures that appear in the surveillance calendar for 2013 really demonstrate that.
[34:55.810 --> 35:04.550]  You know, we could spend, and Kyle, we're demonstrating this right now, we could spend so much time talking about every single photo, but you know, we haven't even started the year 2013 yet.
[35:04.770 --> 35:06.550]  Do you want to like breeze through a couple of them?
[35:06.550 --> 35:10.730]  Because I really could, I could talk about things we learned and each of them in different ways.
[35:10.930 --> 35:11.570]  We sure could.
[35:11.990 --> 35:16.150]  Maybe, maybe we should have like an expanded version of the show where we just spend an hour on each photo.
[35:16.950 --> 35:31.590]  But, well, let me just, let me just say for the benefit of the listeners who want to support the radio station, and this is how you keep us on the air by supporting the radio station, we will give you for a pledge of merely $50 two of these full-size calendars,
[35:31.710 --> 35:39.430]  glossy photos, and, and also historic happenings on virtually every single day of the year in the hacker world.
[35:39.590 --> 35:41.690]  All kinds of of amazing things.
[35:41.790 --> 35:43.770]  We'll focus on some other dates in a couple of minutes.
[35:44.090 --> 35:48.170]  You'll get that plus, I believe, 14 different pictures.
[35:48.170 --> 35:53.670]  You get the the 12 months plus the last four months of 2012 and the covers.
[35:53.670 --> 36:02.930]  That's 14 separate photos taken by Kyle and Dave who are our staff photographers and really did an amazing job both this year and for 2013.
[36:03.710 --> 36:20.910]  So, $50 you'll get two of the autographed calendars 212-209-2950 $75 you'll get the calendars plus 15 surveillance-related talks from the Hackers on Planet Earth conferences which took place over the years from 1994 until 2012 and are continuing into the future.
[36:21.130 --> 36:45.590]  For $125 you get the two autographed calendars you get the 15 DVDs I'm sorry 15 talks more DVDs and you also get a handy spy pen you can record people moving around you can record video technology has advanced to this stage where you can be Dick Tracy and walk around and actually record people from your shirt pocket it's that simple that's a pledge $125,
[36:46.090 --> 36:46.830]  you get all of that.
[36:46.970 --> 36:49.810]  212-209-2950.
[36:50.190 --> 37:01.050]  And also, for any of those pledging levels, you also get a membership in the station, which gives you a voting voice, which gives you their newsletter, and you can actually have a say in how the station is run.
[37:01.150 --> 37:08.450]  So if you love the station enough to take an active interest in it, pledge for us, pledge for WBAI, and become part of it.
[37:09.110 --> 37:09.470]  Absolutely.
[37:09.650 --> 37:10.810]  It's a really important thing to do.
[37:10.910 --> 37:13.170]  Now, okay, let's take a look at January 2013.
[37:13.170 --> 37:21.310]  And again, we're describing this on the radio, and we cannot do it justice unless you actually see it hanging up on your wall.
[37:21.430 --> 37:22.690]  It really is incredible.
[37:22.830 --> 37:24.910]  Very colorful shots, very detailed shots.
[37:25.030 --> 37:30.790]  And this one, in particular, was taken at great personal risk by Dave at JFK International Airport.
[37:31.410 --> 37:37.910]  You see people feeding a machine known as the InVision CTX x-ray scanner.
[37:38.150 --> 37:44.130]  And that's that machine that you basically put all of your luggage inside, and they tell you if it's safe.
[37:46.010 --> 37:48.390]  There's just so much detail in here.
[37:49.570 --> 37:50.730]  What does that mean?
[37:51.490 --> 37:53.370]  CTX x-ray scanner?
[37:53.590 --> 37:56.530]  You'd have to ask the people that made the machine what that actually stands for.
[37:56.670 --> 37:58.250]  So this is the thing that scans your luggage?
[37:58.410 --> 37:58.650]  Yes.
[37:59.270 --> 38:00.810]  And where is this picture?
[38:00.970 --> 38:02.590]  JFK Airport, but where at JFK?
[38:02.590 --> 38:13.290]  It's right in the foyer, or kind of right in the entranceway, before you go to a ticketing counter, right in between the ticketing counters in that particular terminal.
[38:14.270 --> 38:17.430]  And you see two people there looking at luggage going through.
[38:17.790 --> 38:19.050]  Not looking at the camera.
[38:19.250 --> 38:20.750]  I mean, the picture being taken.
[38:20.950 --> 38:27.910]  It looks like an enormous, like sausages or something coming out of this huge machine.
[38:29.310 --> 38:30.090]  I don't know.
[38:30.230 --> 38:33.390]  They're there to, like, catch it as spotters.
[38:34.250 --> 38:35.890]  Is it coming out, or is it going in?
[38:36.590 --> 38:37.030]  What's that?
[38:37.130 --> 38:38.350]  Is it coming out, or is it going in?
[38:38.390 --> 38:38.990]  Which way is it going?
[38:39.110 --> 38:40.230]  It could be going in, actually.
[38:40.430 --> 38:41.510]  Yeah, that's true.
[38:41.650 --> 38:41.950]  You know what?
[38:41.950 --> 38:43.130]  It has to be going in.
[38:45.270 --> 38:47.730]  But it's something that I think it would be overlooked.
[38:47.730 --> 38:49.390]  We see this so much.
[38:49.390 --> 38:53.010]  I mean, in that part of the airport, even if you're just visiting, you don't have to actually be traveling.
[38:53.010 --> 38:53.770]  Yes.
[38:53.770 --> 38:56.330]  And you sort of don't pay attention to it.
[38:56.450 --> 39:02.050]  But this is where you go when they say, you know, that you must, you know, have your luggage scanned before it's checked.
[39:02.630 --> 39:06.590]  And it's this behemoth of a machine.
[39:06.750 --> 39:07.350]  It's huge.
[39:07.370 --> 39:08.450]  It really is huge.
[39:08.810 --> 39:13.630]  And they say, you know, no, you know, it cautions you.
[39:13.730 --> 39:16.270]  There's all these warnings about the radiation and stuff.
[39:16.910 --> 39:23.230]  And it's just, you know, in this enormous area where all these people are milling around.
[39:23.470 --> 39:25.250]  They also warn you against taking pictures.
[39:25.330 --> 39:26.770]  But we did it anyway.
[39:26.990 --> 39:31.530]  And the picture can grace your walls, if you're daring enough, in January of 2013.
[39:31.530 --> 39:32.950]  And you'll see the InVision.
[39:33.130 --> 39:34.990]  I don't know if this is a serial number or the model number.
[39:35.790 --> 39:36.230]  C679.
[39:36.370 --> 39:38.070]  That's what's clearly written on the side of it.
[39:38.170 --> 39:39.930]  So that's, it is a good shot.
[39:39.950 --> 39:41.850]  It really is very, very colorful and detailed.
[39:41.850 --> 39:50.790]  And my favorite thing about the shot they took is the fact that in the background, you can see a billboard for a hardware vendor, the slogan of which starts, your business is your business.
[39:51.330 --> 39:54.330]  Of course, while these people are taking a keen interest in everyone's business.
[39:54.450 --> 39:56.970]  Yes, your business is our business, I might as well say.
[39:57.510 --> 39:58.950]  Yes, go ahead, Kyle.
[39:59.430 --> 40:02.750]  Can you imagine going to somebody's house and they have this in like, in their front door?
[40:03.310 --> 40:04.370]  That day is coming.
[40:04.750 --> 40:06.770]  Can you just put your bag and stuff through this?
[40:07.070 --> 40:08.950]  We're stepping up security around here.
[40:09.130 --> 40:10.890]  Well, I mean, look at schools now.
[40:11.010 --> 40:12.790]  You have to go through metal detectors to get into schools.
[40:12.810 --> 40:14.750]  You have nanny cams in everyone's home.
[40:15.110 --> 40:16.310]  It's getting to that stage.
[40:16.310 --> 40:18.470]  I don't think it's that far in the distance.
[40:18.570 --> 40:20.450]  And probably in some places in England, they're already doing it.
[40:21.290 --> 40:23.650]  But we'll, we'll hear from our listeners, I'm sure.
[40:24.410 --> 40:25.930]  Okay, so now let's move on to February.
[40:26.050 --> 40:27.390]  It's another Dave shot for February.
[40:27.390 --> 40:34.630]  And I like this shot too, because it kind of mixes the, the paranoia of the present and future with the paranoia of the past.
[40:34.790 --> 40:40.650]  It's a, it's a big surveillance camera, kind of an old one, I would say, because it's, it's big and clunky, but it's weatherproof.
[40:40.650 --> 40:41.890]  It's weatherproof for sure.
[40:42.450 --> 40:45.030]  And I think it's one of the kind that, that move around as well.
[40:45.430 --> 40:48.870]  And it's right above this sign that many of us are familiar with.
[40:49.050 --> 40:52.510]  They're not that many around anymore, but it says fallout shelter in basement.
[40:52.930 --> 40:59.470]  So right away you have that whole cold war thing where everybody had a bomb shelter because, well, the nukes are going to fall at some point.
[40:59.770 --> 41:05.610]  And right above that, you got a, a surveillance camera for all the crimes of the future that might be taking place.
[41:07.230 --> 41:11.190]  It's interesting that the in-basement part is a sticker that's sort of added.
[41:11.330 --> 41:19.290]  That's like the local flair, you know, hey, just in case the fallout shelter is here, but locals will tell you it's in the basement.
[41:19.550 --> 41:20.490]  It's not upstairs.
[41:20.730 --> 41:22.130]  Well, because people go to the wrong place.
[41:22.190 --> 41:23.150]  They don't know where, where it is.
[41:23.250 --> 41:29.770]  I imagine whoever it is that made up those bumper stickers that say in-basement made a killing because what fallout shelter is not in the basement?
[41:30.250 --> 41:31.750]  Most of them are in the basement.
[41:31.910 --> 41:34.770]  So you have to stick those stickers pretty much everywhere where there's a question.
[41:35.330 --> 41:37.710]  It must be a trick, trick sign.
[41:38.050 --> 41:43.150]  We can take, we can ask for the footage from the surveillance camera and see who put that sticker there.
[41:43.290 --> 41:44.710]  I don't know if you can do that in the United States.
[41:45.330 --> 41:46.550]  Well, we can, we can ask.
[41:46.570 --> 41:50.710]  We may not have a legal right to the, to be told yes, but you can ask anyone for anything.
[41:50.810 --> 41:51.830]  Here's a legitimate question.
[41:51.990 --> 41:52.430]  I love it.
[41:52.590 --> 41:54.850]  What, what do fallout shelter signs look like in other countries?
[41:54.850 --> 41:56.450]  Because they don't all look like that, obviously.
[41:56.590 --> 41:57.790]  That's United States fallout shelters.
[41:58.230 --> 41:58.970]  I don't know.
[41:58.970 --> 42:03.650]  So I'm sure our listeners will probably help us with this because I know there are fallout shelters in other places.
[42:04.290 --> 42:05.730]  Is there a fallout in other places?
[42:05.910 --> 42:09.150]  Well, there will be if, uh, if people get angry enough and drop those bombs.
[42:09.750 --> 42:10.410]  Um, so, okay.
[42:10.870 --> 42:11.170]  Go ahead.
[42:11.930 --> 42:17.930]  The brick wall and the rusting of the sign is fading and rusting and, uh, very, very, very cool.
[42:18.450 --> 42:19.970]  Um, good, good shot.
[42:20.050 --> 42:20.590]  Yes, absolutely.
[42:20.890 --> 42:24.370]  But now, uh, let's move on to March and we have one of your shots now, Kyle.
[42:24.890 --> 42:28.270]  Uh, this is the bioscript device.
[42:28.270 --> 42:30.390]  Now you want to, uh, tell us what that is and why you found it?
[42:31.090 --> 42:37.590]  Um, yeah, I, I've seen it for years riding by this, uh, one particular area.
[42:37.690 --> 42:38.990]  So I knew it was there.
[42:39.310 --> 42:50.050]  It struck me as like the sort of older model, big and clunky, you know, a lot of these, um, fingerprint scanning devices where you basically put your finger in it.
[42:50.150 --> 42:56.450]  It scans a biometric, uh, whether it's your finger or your, you know, eyes even now.
[42:57.050 --> 43:03.190]  Um, it's just big and clunky and has a huge armored enclosure with big gaskets to keep the weather out.
[43:03.390 --> 43:05.870]  It just seems like totally overkill.
[43:06.330 --> 43:10.790]  Um, but it's, it's, uh, solid and it's been there for years and years and years.
[43:10.910 --> 43:14.690]  So I knew it was there and, um, I wrestled with it a bit.
[43:14.850 --> 43:16.890]  I was trying to get the photo just right.
[43:17.150 --> 43:22.490]  And, uh, eventually I got a pretty sharp, uh, picture of, of the actual scanner.
[43:22.650 --> 43:25.370]  You see where you can put your finger and the different lights.
[43:25.710 --> 43:33.950]  Um, and, uh, I guess it gives you the all clear and it just was amazing details for the installation of this kind of thing.
[43:34.550 --> 43:34.650]  Um.
[43:34.950 --> 43:41.990]  Well, something, something that we should make clear to the listeners, uh, when you say you wrestled with a shot, obviously as a photographer, you, you have to get everything just right.
[43:41.990 --> 43:51.950]  But when you're taking a picture of a surveillance device like this, you also have to wrestle with, uh, are you going to get apprehended for daring to take this picture in the first place?
[43:52.010 --> 43:54.450]  And I believe you, you had to stake it out for quite some time.
[43:54.770 --> 43:54.970]  Yeah.
[43:55.230 --> 43:55.450]  Yeah.
[43:55.790 --> 43:59.670]  Um, the, I made a couple trips and, uh, I think second or third time.
[43:59.810 --> 44:05.390]  I just basically didn't want to arouse suspicion because I bet I had to run up to their front door.
[44:05.810 --> 44:19.550]  Um, and it's cumbersome to, to pull out a camera and to begin photographing, especially if you're using flash and, um, you just don't want to, you don't want to have, I, I, I don't want to have it to be interrupted.
[44:19.550 --> 44:26.890]  I don't have the conversation where I have to explain what I'm doing, which is perfectly, you know, sort of normal to say, well, I'm interested in this thing.
[44:27.010 --> 44:30.090]  And, uh, yeah, I'm just taking a photo here really quick.
[44:30.390 --> 44:34.090]  Uh, and then I had to figure out cause the door closed on, on one occasion.
[44:34.090 --> 44:39.330]  And I did, I was waiting for several people who were there, you know, on one of the attempts.
[44:39.610 --> 44:42.090]  And then when I finally got there, the door on the thing was closed.
[44:42.250 --> 44:43.350]  I had to figure out how to open it.
[44:43.490 --> 44:44.650]  And I, I don't know.
[44:44.770 --> 44:55.670]  I, I hope I didn't break it, but basically it was, uh, a lot of fun because I was sort of sitting there waiting for people to sort of get out of the, the area so I could run in and, uh, get it quickly.
[44:55.710 --> 44:58.110]  It's the challenges of subversive photography for sure.
[44:58.290 --> 45:01.070]  And that's something that, uh, I think a lot of people will appreciate.
[45:01.330 --> 45:06.770]  Uh, it's a quarter after, you know, we're going to have to speed through these to get through them, but also I want to get some more calls coming in.
[45:06.790 --> 45:07.730]  We have one call on the line.
[45:07.730 --> 45:09.590]  I know we have room for about a dozen.
[45:09.590 --> 45:27.050]  And I think this is something that, uh, will be of great interest to WBAI listeners and to off the hook listeners in particular, uh, surveillance calendars every single month with a, a, um, a big glossy photo of something surveillance related plus hacker happenings,
[45:27.170 --> 45:30.430]  hacker history on every, pretty much every single date of the year.
[45:30.590 --> 45:33.610]  And sometimes, uh, several of them on, on, on one particular date.
[45:33.610 --> 45:35.870]  Uh, it's, uh, the second hacker calendar.
[45:35.970 --> 45:37.630]  The first one was, was very well received.
[45:37.770 --> 45:39.330]  This one has a surveillance theme.
[45:39.730 --> 45:43.650]  And I think it's something that, uh, many, many people will be very, um, interested in.
[45:43.710 --> 45:50.890]  I want, I want to go over the next shot in particular for April, 2013 in just a moment, but let's get some calls coming in 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 $50.
[45:51.210 --> 45:55.350]  You get two calendars autographed by myself and the two photographers, Dave and Kyle.
[45:55.890 --> 46:04.470]  And, uh, for 75, you get the calendars plus 15 separate talks from the hope conferences on the subject of surveillance.
[46:05.030 --> 46:06.890]  That's yeah, we have a lot of talks on surveillance.
[46:07.030 --> 46:07.430]  That's for sure.
[46:07.630 --> 46:14.670]  For one 25, you get all those, you get the talks, you get the calendars and you get a really nifty spy pen that you can use for a good or evil.
[46:14.870 --> 46:15.790]  It's really up to you.
[46:15.910 --> 46:17.990]  I want to tell you about one of the other talks that you'll get.
[46:18.110 --> 46:25.110]  One of the 15 talks that you get, if you pledge 15, uh, $75 or above, which is the talk from Nick Merrill who works at Calix.
[46:25.210 --> 46:28.350]  He was, uh, the recipient of a national security letter.
[46:28.650 --> 46:30.590]  Uh, one of the, that's a high honor, isn't it?
[46:30.730 --> 46:30.730]  Yeah.
[46:30.890 --> 46:31.270]  Yeah.
[46:31.390 --> 46:41.490]  One of the, and what's even, uh, higher of an honor is that he, it fought the government for years so that now he's able to tell us that he was the recipient of a national security letter.
[46:41.790 --> 46:52.310]  What he's doing now and what he talks about, uh, in his talk is he's trying to create a, a privacy protecting, uh, internet service provider and cell phone provider.
[46:52.310 --> 47:01.910]  So you will be able to, uh, become a customer of this entity and, uh, make phone calls and use the internet without government surveillance.
[47:02.190 --> 47:04.850]  And he goes into great detail about how he's going to do that.
[47:05.010 --> 47:07.750]  It's again, just one of 15 talks you'll get.
[47:07.870 --> 47:15.630]  You pledge $75 or above if, if it's one 25 or above, we'll include the, uh, the spy pen 50 or above.
[47:15.750 --> 47:23.190]  So that both of those levels as well, you'll get two copies of the calendar that we've been talking about two on two, two zero nine, two nine five zero.
[47:23.530 --> 47:36.170]  And with any pledge, even less than $50, if it's all you can afford, you get to help keep us on the air, keep this radio station on the air, keep this program on the air, become a member of WBAI and vote to control the direction of the station.
[47:37.130 --> 47:41.630]  You're the only reason we're on the air, uh, listeners calling in to support the station since 1960.
[47:41.710 --> 47:43.750]  That has kept the station on the air commercial free.
[47:43.850 --> 47:45.810]  We could not talk about any of this if we had commercials.
[47:45.970 --> 47:46.790]  That is a fact.
[47:47.270 --> 47:51.830]  And, uh, WBAI is one of the most unique radio stations in the world, if not the most unique.
[47:52.010 --> 48:00.210]  Now, Rob, I, I, I noticed in cartoon fashion that your eyes are bugging out of your head as you're gazing at the April 2013 photograph.
[48:00.590 --> 48:01.990]  That's one of Kyle's as well.
[48:02.530 --> 48:06.130]  Uh, why don't you describe what you're looking at to us or what you think you're looking at?
[48:06.270 --> 48:06.590]  Indeed.
[48:07.030 --> 48:07.210]  Indeed.
[48:07.290 --> 48:07.610]  I'm sorry.
[48:07.830 --> 48:08.670]  I'll turn your mic on too.
[48:09.250 --> 48:09.570]  That would help.
[48:09.710 --> 48:09.910]  Indeed.
[48:10.110 --> 48:16.750]  Uh, to the untrained eye, this looks like, uh, this looks like a grassy field with a couple of, uh, lethargic sheep, um, doing their thing.
[48:16.830 --> 48:17.730]  Oh, I wouldn't say that.
[48:17.890 --> 48:19.090]  They were kind of lively, I think.
[48:19.210 --> 48:20.130]  They went lethargic.
[48:20.310 --> 48:23.210]  They were walking around and, uh, Kyle must have photographed their good sides.
[48:23.370 --> 48:30.410]  But, uh, in the distance, there are all these strange sort of structures that look like golf balls of various sizes, um, attached to buildings.
[48:30.830 --> 48:33.070]  They, they just look like featureless white domes.
[48:33.150 --> 48:39.350]  And if, if I didn't know what these were, um, from talking to you guys about them, I would really be wondering what these were.
[48:39.830 --> 48:39.930]  So.
[48:40.610 --> 48:41.770]  Kyle, what, what, what these were?
[48:41.930 --> 48:44.990]  I mean, what, what, what, what were those things?
[48:45.790 --> 48:58.070]  Um, yeah, so, um, in learning about the NSA and, uh, what they do, um, we found out about various places in the world where they operate.
[48:58.570 --> 49:02.190]  And part of signals intelligence is collecting signals.
[49:02.410 --> 49:05.010]  And that comes in the form of radio waves.
[49:05.770 --> 49:27.070]  And, um, they have places in the world where they monitor other people's communications around the world, but also get their own data that's perhaps beamed from, like, the Thomas building or, you know, sent over wires of some kind and then sent to these locations.
[49:27.070 --> 49:29.430]  And they, in turn, send them somewhere else.
[49:29.610 --> 49:36.930]  At least these are what, these are some of the ideas I started thinking of when, uh, we were actually around some of the facilities.
[49:37.030 --> 49:39.690]  We kept asking ourselves, what do they do?
[49:39.830 --> 49:41.050]  Like, what does that one do?
[49:41.190 --> 49:42.190]  What does this one do?
[49:42.310 --> 49:45.870]  And the, the, the correct answer is they probably all do a lot.
[49:46.030 --> 49:47.610]  Yeah, they all do a lot and they're covered up.
[49:47.690 --> 49:48.810]  So you don't know where they're pointing.
[49:48.950 --> 49:52.510]  That's why they look like golf balls, but they're, they're not there to, to receive HBO.
[49:52.730 --> 49:59.290]  They're there to, uh, to listen in on all kinds of, of, uh, sensitive things, things that they're not supposed to listen.
[49:59.390 --> 50:03.770]  It's kind of all unauthorized access, but on an official level, which is really kind of interesting.
[50:03.910 --> 50:05.510]  The place is called Men With Hill.
[50:05.910 --> 50:07.950]  Uh, it's in the northern part of, uh, of England.
[50:08.210 --> 50:09.930]  It's really, um, a fascinating place.
[50:10.070 --> 50:16.310]  Kyle, we had one hell of an adventure getting up there and, and not getting, not getting tailed by the cops.
[50:16.410 --> 50:19.310]  We, we actually found a very peaceful farm to just sort of take pictures of.
[50:19.590 --> 50:22.670]  It was a little bit of a roadie on there for a bit.
[50:23.130 --> 50:23.570]  Absolutely.
[50:23.870 --> 50:24.110]  Yes.
[50:24.370 --> 50:26.990]  But, uh, you know, we, we, we were on our game.
[50:27.230 --> 50:27.430]  Yeah.
[50:27.430 --> 50:38.050]  We definitely, uh, we did some great field production and we're literally in a field with some sheep and, uh, had a lot of fun and got a lot of, um, great art.
[50:38.130 --> 50:44.010]  And I actually love this photo because the, it's so calm and the sheep are just sort of happily.
[50:44.170 --> 50:44.870]  And that was the other thing.
[50:45.050 --> 50:50.670]  You got this quiet in the, in these areas that perhaps are the noisiest of places.
[50:50.970 --> 50:55.730]  I mean, you think of all the signals in general and then all the encryption too.
[50:55.930 --> 50:59.410]  I mean, there's a lot of noise going on in these places, but they're so quiet.
[50:59.650 --> 51:00.090]  Yeah.
[51:00.210 --> 51:03.750]  And you know, there's, there's a real side story to this, which has to be told.
[51:03.890 --> 51:06.050]  And that's that, um, well, we were scared.
[51:06.170 --> 51:08.370]  We went up there, you know, you don't, you know, foreign country.
[51:08.650 --> 51:17.950]  We're, we're, we're going to the biggest listening post on earth and we're, we're trying, uh, not to, not to get, um, uh, caught by the cops.
[51:18.190 --> 51:19.970]  There turned out to be lots of cops in that area.
[51:20.070 --> 51:21.870]  I guess they were sensitive to this.
[51:22.010 --> 51:30.190]  We had heard stories of these local grandmothers, uh, who were challenging the authorities and regularly getting arrested just for taking pictures of their own neighborhood.
[51:30.510 --> 51:33.170]  So we knew that it was that the stakes were kind of high.
[51:33.510 --> 51:38.550]  Uh, but, uh, we found this one turnoff on the road that just kind of went into a driveway.
[51:38.970 --> 51:45.630]  Uh, and you know, I, I was driving at the time we, we had rented a car as if it wasn't stressful enough to drive on the wrong side of the road.
[51:45.770 --> 51:51.050]  We're trying to do all that and, and, and not get caught by the cops and find a good place where we could take pictures.
[51:51.330 --> 51:58.750]  Uh, so I, I pulled into this driveway and right away I knew it was a mistake because in front of us was a gate, you know, a closed gate.
[51:58.890 --> 52:04.750]  And, um, basically we had agreed that we were going to, uh, uh, turn around and back up and, and try something else.
[52:04.970 --> 52:06.850]  But then the most amazing thing happened.
[52:06.970 --> 52:07.850]  The gate opened.
[52:08.030 --> 52:09.730]  It just invited us in.
[52:10.290 --> 52:13.830]  And I remember saying to you, Kyle, I cannot turn down this invitation.
[52:14.030 --> 52:14.650]  We have to go in.
[52:14.710 --> 52:16.330]  Apparently they thought that we worked there.
[52:16.790 --> 52:17.830]  That's the amazing thing.
[52:17.930 --> 52:30.190]  It was a network operations center of some sort and they actually opened the gate for us and we just drove through there and we kept going and wound up at that, uh, at that farm field with the wonderful sheep that we gazed at for about an hour and a half.
[52:30.610 --> 52:33.250]  Yeah, that's, that's absolutely, uh, how it happened.
[52:33.430 --> 52:34.790]  It was sort of local access only.
[52:35.030 --> 52:40.770]  And I, we were certainly communicating about what the, what types of journalism we wanted to do.
[52:40.910 --> 52:49.550]  And I was into very much into covering this and, um, getting some great art, but I also wasn't into, um, scaling fences or anything stupid.
[52:49.830 --> 52:55.490]  So, uh, when the gate did open for us, I definitely was like, uh, are you sure?
[52:55.490 --> 52:58.950]  And then you, you said, no, we can't, we can't, you went for it.
[52:59.030 --> 53:00.130]  We couldn't pass it up.
[53:00.230 --> 53:03.710]  And I thought, yeah, I was a little hesitant, but, uh, it made sense.
[53:03.870 --> 53:11.390]  I was always, I was worried that the gate wasn't going to open on the way out and we'd be stuck there, but I thought it'd be more suspicious if I backed away when the gate opened.
[53:11.570 --> 53:13.510]  So I, I decided, yeah, I'll, I'll play the game.
[53:13.930 --> 53:14.550]  Uh, you know what?
[53:14.650 --> 53:25.330]  It's, we're not going to make it because it's seven minutes to the hour and we're only up to April, but this gives you an idea of just how fascinating this calendar is that we spend so much time talking about pictures on, on the radio.
[53:25.630 --> 53:32.250]  And this is your chance listeners to get, to be a part of this, to get this calendar delivered right to you.
[53:32.430 --> 53:37.150]  Uh, you'll get two of them for a pledge of $50 to 212-209-2950.
[53:37.530 --> 53:38.610]  I just have a clarification.
[53:38.610 --> 53:43.330]  If you called previously and you were told that we were out of calendars, that was a mistake.
[53:43.490 --> 53:44.670]  We are not out of calendars.
[53:45.330 --> 53:46.570]  Calendars call us back.
[53:46.730 --> 53:48.290]  212-209-2950.
[53:48.290 --> 53:55.270]  Who is going around spreading misinformation that we're, you know, surveillance people, they, they, they stop at nothing, right?
[53:55.450 --> 53:56.550]  I would imagine that's the case.
[53:56.610 --> 53:56.750]  All right.
[53:56.790 --> 53:59.790]  So there's NSA plants now inside our studios that are...
[53:59.790 --> 54:01.050]  I don't want to go that far.
[54:01.070 --> 54:02.430]  Well, I think you should go that far.
[54:02.610 --> 54:02.830]  Wow.
[54:03.090 --> 54:05.370]  Uh, no, we're not out of, we've got, we've got boxes of them.
[54:05.570 --> 54:05.890]  We do.
[54:06.090 --> 54:07.750]  212-209-2950.
[54:08.150 --> 54:10.970]  Give us a call if you called before and, and something strange happened.
[54:11.090 --> 54:15.590]  Give us a call if you didn't call yet because we only have about five minutes and 20 seconds left.
[54:15.590 --> 54:19.750]  And we have, uh, looks like three calls coming in, uh, and we have, we have room for a lot more.
[54:19.850 --> 54:33.970]  Now, again, to run down the pledge levels, $50, you get two of these amazing calendars for 2013 filled with pictures, filled with, uh, with hacker history and signed by, by, uh, Kyle, one of our photographers, Dave, our other photographer, and yours truly,
[54:34.110 --> 54:40.770]  Emmanuel, who, uh, did most of the research on all of the many, many dates of hacker, uh, things that went on.
[54:41.090 --> 54:42.530]  I think we were going to go over another date.
[54:42.650 --> 54:55.810]  Let's, why don't you guys pick a date while I go over the, the rest of the premiums, uh, for $75, you, you will get the, um, uh, the two hacker calendars plus 15 hackers on planet earth talks in DVD format, uh, region free.
[54:55.990 --> 54:58.070]  So you can play them anywhere, uh, DRM free.
[54:58.230 --> 54:59.250]  So you can copy them if you want.
[54:59.430 --> 55:04.410]  And those talks, uh, having to do a surveillance of one sort or another that were presented at one of our conferences.
[55:04.990 --> 55:12.990]  And for a pledge of $125, you get the, uh, 15 talks, you get the two calendars and you get a spy pen.
[55:13.150 --> 55:17.390]  A spy pen being something that not only can you take pictures with, you can take videos with.
[55:17.550 --> 55:18.670]  Yes, it's true.
[55:18.790 --> 55:19.210]  You can do that.
[55:19.330 --> 55:21.850]  You can have a little pen in your pocket and you can record people.
[55:21.990 --> 55:25.330]  It's great for, for undercover recording of all sorts.
[55:25.570 --> 55:30.290]  And, uh, I just want to see what our listeners are able to get into with these amazing devices.
[55:30.290 --> 55:32.830]  212-209-2950.
[55:33.010 --> 55:38.470]  Join the four callers on the line now and, uh, help us have a, uh, a grand finale here.
[55:38.590 --> 55:40.930]  Again, this, these premiums only available for the next five minutes.
[55:41.070 --> 55:42.970]  212-209-2950.
[55:43.150 --> 55:43.850]  Do you guys pick a date?
[55:44.150 --> 55:44.290]  Yeah.
[55:44.430 --> 55:47.070]  May 1st is of course the date you should pick on this radio station.
[55:47.070 --> 55:59.350]  You do not note on the calendar that it's May Day, which is, which is a shame, but you do tell us that May 1st is when the EFF, uh, and Steve Jackson, Steve Jackson Games, filed suit against the Secret Service, uh, in 1991.
[56:00.070 --> 56:08.850]  And May 1st is also the date that Hacker ISP Access for All was the first, uh, company, the first anybody in the Netherlands to offer dial-up access.
[56:09.010 --> 56:10.110]  And that happened in 1993.
[56:11.010 --> 56:17.430]  And, and I'm just looking at this calendar and, and the rest of May and the rest of the year is filled with other stuff, just as much stuff.
[56:17.730 --> 56:18.050]  Yeah.
[56:18.230 --> 56:20.650]  And, uh, we, we, we, we mark as much as we can.
[56:20.790 --> 56:21.310]  We mark as much.
[56:21.390 --> 56:23.050]  We'll try to add May Day if we can fit it in there.
[56:23.130 --> 56:26.710]  But there's so much, some of the days are just completely chock full of, uh, of information.
[56:27.350 --> 56:28.910]  212-209-2950.
[56:28.910 --> 56:35.010]  This is really the last chance for, for this hour to call in and become a part of this, uh, uh, uh, spectacle here.
[56:35.150 --> 56:39.810]  And of course, if you're listening too late, if you're listening on an MP3 or something, go to WBAI.org.
[56:39.950 --> 56:43.030]  There are so many options for supporting us and supporting this station.
[56:43.110 --> 56:47.290]  You can be our BAI buddy and, uh, email us for your BAI buddy benefits.
[56:47.490 --> 57:00.770]  And again, if you want to be a BAI buddy, uh, go to WBAI.org and, and click on the BAI buddy icons and, uh, to thank you, we will give you a, um, uh, a free, a couple of free tickets to, uh, to what now, Rob?
[57:01.170 --> 57:06.490]  To, uh, the, to the haunted house, John Huntington's haunted house on, uh, Saturday the 27th in the evening.
[57:06.670 --> 57:07.450]  And that's in Brooklyn, right?
[57:07.670 --> 57:08.250]  That's in Brooklyn.
[57:08.430 --> 57:14.930]  And I have it on good authority that, uh, John Huntington will also give off the hook, off the hook listeners a behind the scenes tour if they wish.
[57:15.090 --> 57:15.270]  Yes.
[57:15.330 --> 57:22.490]  But everybody who pledges, uh, through the BAI buddy system gets WBAI, um, uh, premiums of, of all sorts and our thanks.
[57:22.610 --> 57:29.430]  And again, if we, if we reach the number of 20, um, by say the 24th, we'll be able to, uh, skip a show as far as, uh, doing fundraising.
[57:29.590 --> 57:30.670]  We'll do a normal show instead.
[57:31.530 --> 57:32.070]  All right.
[57:32.450 --> 57:33.130]  Write to us.
[57:33.310 --> 57:35.250]  OTH at 2600.com.
[57:35.350 --> 57:37.370]  Kyle, I want to thank you very much for, uh, for joining us.
[57:37.490 --> 57:38.490]  Any, any final words?
[57:39.210 --> 57:40.870]  Oh, um, thanks for the opportunity.
[57:40.950 --> 57:56.290]  And, um, definitely people, um, call in for the, the pens and the calendars and see the kinds of, um, surveying that we're doing and maybe do your own surveying, you know, pick up your own camera and, and, um, take pictures, uh, back at the world, um,
[57:56.530 --> 58:02.970]  and, uh, you know, hack that because, uh, the authorities and other people certainly are themselves.
[58:03.390 --> 58:03.710]  Absolutely.
[58:04.010 --> 58:07.710]  And hopefully someday we'll be able to go over the, uh, the remaining months of that calendar.
[58:07.850 --> 58:11.870]  We only made it up to April, but boy, there were some really, really good shots in the remainder of the year.
[58:12.190 --> 58:12.530]  Thanks, Kyle.
[58:12.630 --> 58:14.270]  Thanks everybody else for, uh, for joining in.
[58:14.350 --> 58:15.970]  Thanks all the listeners for calling in.
[58:15.970 --> 58:17.750]  212-209-295-0-HERK-NIGHT.
[59:38.010 --> 59:39.650]  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
[59:40.650 --> 59:44.730]  It's eight o'clock here on WBAI New York 99.
[59:45.030 --> 59:46.590]  99.5 FM.
[59:46.590 --> 59:50.930]  Also streaming on the web at WBAI.org.
[59:51.470 --> 59:54.990]  It's October the 3rd, 2012.