[00:00.000 --> 00:02.000]  We're new, and you know what I mean.
[00:02.220 --> 00:02.540]  Okay.
[00:02.920 --> 00:04.260]  But you've really got to be there.
[00:04.420 --> 00:05.260]  It's like the best.
[00:05.280 --> 00:06.860]  It's the personal computer show.
[00:09.080 --> 00:10.640]  Hi, I'm Danny Glover.
[00:10.760 --> 00:11.980]  This is Saul Williams.
[00:12.220 --> 00:13.760]  And this is Michael Frank from Spearhead.
[00:13.900 --> 00:18.640]  And this is WBAI, listening-supported, non-commercial radio in New York.
[00:18.920 --> 00:21.620]  This is Reverend Jessa Jackson of the Rainbow Push Coalition.
[00:21.900 --> 00:27.020]  Please call and support WBAI, non-commercial peace and justice radio in New York.
[00:27.020 --> 00:30.340]  People moving out, people moving in wide.
[00:30.860 --> 00:33.080]  And this is Radio Station WBAI, New York.
[00:33.200 --> 00:35.880]  The time is 7 o'clock time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:41.060 --> 00:45.580]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:46.520 --> 00:51.060]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:51.660 --> 00:53.940]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:56.700 --> 00:59.340]  Bundedly bombed for the best, expect the worst.
[00:59.940 --> 01:01.860]  I hope that's understood.
[01:01.860 --> 01:03.040]  Bundedly bombed.
[02:29.250 --> 02:30.410]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:30.530 --> 02:31.870]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:32.210 --> 02:34.810]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Mike.
[02:34.970 --> 02:35.310]  Hi there.
[02:37.190 --> 02:38.690]  There's nobody else here, that's it.
[02:38.850 --> 02:39.030]  No.
[02:39.210 --> 02:40.930]  Well, some people are stranded.
[02:42.310 --> 02:42.710]  Stranded?
[02:42.830 --> 02:43.750]  Stranded in the lobby.
[02:44.290 --> 02:45.090]  Are you serious?
[02:45.110 --> 02:46.110]  We got that going on again?
[02:46.110 --> 02:46.810]  I am serious.
[02:46.930 --> 02:47.730]  Oh my goodness.
[02:48.010 --> 02:57.290]  Okay, well, can somebody lower a rope or something, so we can get people past our security gate into the studio.
[02:57.590 --> 02:58.530]  We have Bernie S.
[02:58.710 --> 02:59.570]  on the Skype.
[02:59.730 --> 03:00.190]  Do we not?
[03:00.650 --> 03:01.110]  Yes.
[03:01.150 --> 03:03.390]  Greetings from Philadelphia via Skype.
[03:03.830 --> 03:06.030]  You sound a little choppy there, but for the most part, okay?
[03:06.030 --> 03:14.390]  I'm on a mobile WiMAX connection via Skype, so the bandwidth may be a little bit less than it is on the usual DSL connection.
[03:14.430 --> 03:15.170]  We'll see how it works.
[03:15.350 --> 03:22.270]  Yeah, we warned you about experimentation there, Bernie, and right away, you know, we finally got the Skype thing working, and now you're going wireless on us.
[03:22.270 --> 03:22.650]  Who knows?
[03:22.650 --> 03:25.250]  It's the best I can do right now, sorry.
[03:25.650 --> 03:26.050]  Okay.
[03:27.310 --> 03:31.550]  All right, so things are hectic because it's raining in New York, and apparently that makes everything fall apart.
[03:32.570 --> 03:34.870]  But we will try and take phone calls.
[03:35.030 --> 03:37.630]  It is the loneliest day of the year, December 26th.
[03:37.730 --> 03:40.010]  That's the day nobody wants to be anywhere, apparently.
[03:40.430 --> 03:40.930]  It's Boxing Day.
[03:41.070 --> 03:42.070]  It's Boxing Day, too.
[03:42.170 --> 03:43.330]  They're all boxing.
[03:43.470 --> 03:45.650]  I meant to bring in boxes, but I didn't.
[03:46.010 --> 03:53.030]  Actually, I did bring in some boxes for the premium fulfillment, but I didn't bring in boxes for Mike or for anyone else who might be stranded downstairs.
[03:54.330 --> 04:05.970]  Well, we have, as always, news stories to go through and various other things like that, and we'll be trying to get a hold of some special guests in just a couple of moments.
[04:06.130 --> 04:06.870]  What does that mean?
[04:07.050 --> 04:07.550]  I don't know.
[04:07.650 --> 04:08.630]  You're the one near the thing.
[04:09.070 --> 04:10.770]  That doesn't mean I know what that noise means.
[04:12.750 --> 04:17.110]  This is the era that we're in now, where that kind of noise has to be taken seriously.
[04:17.970 --> 04:18.490]  All right.
[04:19.410 --> 04:20.130]  What happened?
[04:20.430 --> 04:21.830]  We have someone new on the phone.
[04:22.250 --> 04:23.610]  We don't want someone new on the phone.
[04:23.670 --> 04:26.070]  We didn't ask them to call on the phone, so get rid of them.
[04:26.630 --> 04:27.590]  No, don't get rid of them.
[04:29.030 --> 04:29.670]  Who's that?
[04:31.070 --> 04:31.830]  Hey, Emmanuel.
[04:32.050 --> 04:34.210]  It's Mitch and Aesthetics and a whole bunch of other people.
[04:34.750 --> 04:36.810]  Mitch and Aesthetics and a whole bunch of other people.
[04:36.810 --> 04:37.130]  Wow.
[04:38.370 --> 04:39.250]  Where'd you come from?
[04:39.350 --> 04:40.490]  Just all of a sudden, you pop in.
[04:42.250 --> 04:46.810]  We have the ability and the technology, and we know what's going on.
[04:46.810 --> 04:47.890]  We have the power.
[04:48.290 --> 04:49.030]  All Skyped.
[04:49.270 --> 04:50.130]  Wow, that's incredible.
[04:50.270 --> 04:52.970]  That's exactly what we needed, because we have so few people here.
[04:53.090 --> 04:55.190]  It's been very lonely here in New York.
[04:55.570 --> 05:00.210]  And, you know, where are you guys?
[05:01.290 --> 05:02.450]  We're in Hamburg.
[05:02.930 --> 05:06.370]  You're in Hamburg, where the Chaos Communication Congress is about to begin.
[05:06.950 --> 05:07.870]  What a coincidence.
[05:08.410 --> 05:09.290]  How about that?
[05:09.350 --> 05:09.810]  You know what?
[05:09.990 --> 05:17.030]  It's something that I just wasn't able to pull off this year, but this is significant because it's the first year in a very long time that it's been in Hamburg.
[05:17.030 --> 05:22.410]  It's usually been in Berlin, and they moved it to Hamburg because apparently there's more space there.
[05:22.950 --> 05:24.830]  Well, you guys have had a chance to look it over.
[05:24.830 --> 05:25.790]  Is there more space there?
[05:26.550 --> 05:30.770]  Yeah, there are more spacey people here than anywhere on the planet.
[05:33.090 --> 05:34.610]  Well, I figured that.
[05:34.690 --> 05:34.770]  So we're up here.
[05:35.050 --> 05:43.830]  After the Congress last year sold out of 3,500 tickets in three minutes, people got together and looked for a new place.
[05:43.830 --> 05:50.030]  And the one here in Hamburg proved to be the best one that was affordable with a good enough infrastructure.
[05:50.030 --> 05:51.910]  And, wow, is it amazing.
[05:51.910 --> 05:55.250]  There's five floors, each of hundreds of meters square.
[05:55.630 --> 05:58.650]  I actually got lost in the building.
[05:58.810 --> 05:59.770]  Constantly lost.
[05:59.990 --> 06:00.750]  I'm lost right now.
[06:01.190 --> 06:11.450]  The people who were here early decided that they needed to post maps on all the walls and the elevators because it is so easy to get lost here.
[06:11.730 --> 06:13.670]  There's basically two towers.
[06:13.770 --> 06:14.990]  Most people don't realize this.
[06:15.050 --> 06:18.430]  There's basically two towers with meeting rooms.
[06:18.430 --> 06:22.670]  And once you can figure that out, it's a little bit easier to find your way around.
[06:23.730 --> 06:27.610]  The meeting space will hold 10,000 people.
[06:27.810 --> 06:28.150]  Wow.
[06:28.330 --> 06:31.070]  And we're not even using all of it.
[06:31.210 --> 06:34.070]  There's some sections that we haven't...
[06:34.950 --> 06:36.550]  we're not occupying yet.
[06:36.810 --> 06:37.670]  Yeah, next year.
[06:38.610 --> 06:41.190]  How many people did you say it could hold?
[06:42.470 --> 06:43.510]  10,000.
[06:43.590 --> 06:44.430]  10,000 people.
[06:44.630 --> 06:46.050]  Wow, that's unbelievable.
[06:46.750 --> 06:48.130]  Yeah, there's a lot of geeks here.
[06:48.130 --> 06:49.910]  And it's not even started yet.
[06:50.050 --> 06:52.850]  And the main hall fits 4,000 people.
[06:53.250 --> 06:53.370]  Yeah.
[06:53.790 --> 06:53.930]  Yep.
[06:54.210 --> 06:54.930]  That's incredible.
[06:54.930 --> 06:56.250]  How do we find a space like that?
[06:56.310 --> 06:58.890]  That's what every hacker convention needs.
[06:59.410 --> 07:00.730]  Now, there's a whole lot of people there.
[07:00.790 --> 07:01.910]  Could you guys all introduce each other?
[07:02.190 --> 07:03.050]  Or yourselves, that is.
[07:03.730 --> 07:04.410]  Okay, yeah.
[07:04.510 --> 07:05.610]  So this is Mitch.
[07:06.950 --> 07:09.530]  I'm Christy, also known as Valkyrie.
[07:09.910 --> 07:11.090]  I'm Jimmy Rogers.
[07:11.470 --> 07:12.550]  I am Moldover.
[07:12.930 --> 07:13.990]  I am Aesthetics.
[07:14.390 --> 07:15.150]  Jen Savage.
[07:15.150 --> 07:17.990]  I'm Daniel Crowley, or Unicorn Furnace.
[07:19.650 --> 07:20.710]  And that's all of us.
[07:20.810 --> 07:22.110]  Wow, there's a whole lot of you there.
[07:22.730 --> 07:25.150]  So now, the conference begins tomorrow.
[07:25.310 --> 07:28.530]  It goes for four days, as it does every year, the 27th through the 30th.
[07:30.930 --> 07:32.830]  So, what's on tap this year?
[07:32.950 --> 07:35.570]  Are you hearing a lot of good talk, scheduled activities, things like that?
[07:36.070 --> 07:36.850]  Well, yeah.
[07:37.070 --> 07:46.730]  Well, one of the main speakers is going to be William Binney, who people who were at Hope will recognize as the whistleblower from the NSA who gave the keynote at Hope.
[07:47.030 --> 07:51.730]  The keynote here is Jake Applebaum, who's going to talk about his latest.
[07:53.070 --> 07:55.590]  And, I don't know, I haven't really looked at the FAR plan yet.
[07:55.590 --> 07:57.070]  I've been so busy setting up.
[07:57.190 --> 07:57.770]  Anyone have?
[07:57.970 --> 07:59.290]  Yeah, I think it's totally...
[07:59.290 --> 08:00.690]  Mitch, what does FAR plan mean?
[08:01.470 --> 08:03.890]  I think I can figure out what FAR plan means, Mike.
[08:03.990 --> 08:05.210]  It means floor plan in German.
[08:08.490 --> 08:10.790]  German's the kind of language where you can sort of understand it.
[08:11.450 --> 08:12.170]  Yeah, so that...
[08:12.170 --> 08:12.750]  I'm sorry.
[08:13.210 --> 08:14.270]  I'm in German mode.
[08:14.430 --> 08:16.770]  So, the FAR plan is the schedule of events.
[08:17.510 --> 08:20.870]  Okay, please stay in German mode, because that makes it more authentic.
[08:20.970 --> 08:23.330]  By the way, Bicycle Mark has just joined us after being locked downstairs.
[08:23.890 --> 08:24.550]  Hello, hello.
[08:24.810 --> 08:26.050]  I am no longer a security threat.
[08:26.410 --> 08:26.850]  Well, good.
[08:28.550 --> 08:30.090]  Actually, no, that's disappointing.
[08:30.090 --> 08:31.830]  Now you've become a lot less interesting to me.
[08:34.550 --> 08:38.030]  Yeah, so some of the people in the room here are speakers and performers.
[08:38.190 --> 08:42.070]  So, why don't you give a little intro of what you'll be talking about briefly.
[08:42.070 --> 08:43.410]  Okay, I'm Christy.
[08:43.570 --> 08:52.570]  I'll be talking about a new automotive protocol that will be rolling out in the United States and in Europe in the next couple of years.
[08:52.750 --> 08:54.370]  They're doing a live test now.
[08:54.510 --> 08:58.890]  And I'll be talking about privacy implications of this automotive protocol.
[09:00.570 --> 09:01.930]  I'm Moldover.
[09:02.130 --> 09:03.350]  I'm from San Francisco.
[09:03.350 --> 09:07.330]  I'm going to be talking tomorrow about designing and building instruments.
[09:08.050 --> 09:08.730]  Musical.
[09:08.890 --> 09:10.610]  Musical instruments, specifically.
[09:11.830 --> 09:15.870]  Which I make for myself and for others to play live music with.
[09:16.010 --> 09:19.070]  So, I'll be doing the live music portion on Friday evening.
[09:19.270 --> 09:21.910]  And also doing some workshops in the hardware hacking area.
[09:22.150 --> 09:24.390]  Teaching people how to solder light theremins.
[09:27.990 --> 09:28.790]  Uh-oh.
[09:28.930 --> 09:29.910]  I don't like the sound of that.
[09:30.190 --> 09:30.330]  No.
[09:30.530 --> 09:31.150]  Helping up.
[09:31.150 --> 09:31.490]  There they are.
[09:31.550 --> 09:31.690]  Okay.
[09:33.690 --> 09:36.090]  Mitch, you're making the equipment go crazy here.
[09:36.250 --> 09:37.710]  Can you start your sentence over again?
[09:38.450 --> 09:38.950]  Uh-oh.
[09:39.030 --> 09:39.690]  We're cutting it out.
[09:39.690 --> 09:40.510]  Are we cutting it out?
[09:41.150 --> 09:43.290]  Try to keep the enthusiasm down.
[09:43.450 --> 09:44.930]  I think that might be taking up a lot of the bandwidth.
[09:47.690 --> 09:48.050]  Yeah.
[09:48.150 --> 09:48.970]  You see, this is what happens.
[09:49.830 --> 09:50.850]  I thought they could do it.
[09:50.970 --> 09:52.450]  They're on a German internet.
[09:52.670 --> 09:53.470]  It should work very well.
[09:53.470 --> 09:53.950]  Yeah, but we're not.
[09:53.970 --> 09:55.290]  We're here in the United States.
[09:55.290 --> 09:56.290]  I'll bet it's on our end.
[09:56.590 --> 09:57.310]  Guys, are you back?
[09:57.530 --> 09:58.830]  Technology is failing us.
[09:59.030 --> 09:59.130]  Okay.
[09:59.290 --> 09:59.550]  Okay.
[10:00.090 --> 10:00.910]  We can hear you now.
[10:01.190 --> 10:01.410]  Zero.
[10:01.830 --> 10:04.510]  I don't know if they can hear us.
[10:04.590 --> 10:05.170]  Can you hear us?
[10:06.110 --> 10:07.250]  No, they can't hear us.
[10:07.490 --> 10:08.570]  That's the old one-way Skype problem.
[10:08.750 --> 10:09.570]  And there's that noise again.
[10:09.750 --> 10:10.310]  I don't...
[10:10.310 --> 10:12.190]  I can't see the screen.
[10:12.310 --> 10:12.630]  Your head's...
[10:12.630 --> 10:14.030]  I can't see the screen either.
[10:14.030 --> 10:16.370]  Your head's directly between me and the screen.
[10:16.370 --> 10:20.190]  Some genius who set this up decided to put the computer in back of the person on microphone.
[10:20.450 --> 10:24.470]  So unless I can somehow swivel and look at everything at once, there's no way I can know either.
[10:24.550 --> 10:29.450]  We need another person just to sit behind me to figure out who's calling in and who's connected right now.
[10:29.610 --> 10:31.170]  It is, of course, a new venue.
[10:31.430 --> 10:32.830]  And I need to figure out where your microphone is.
[10:32.950 --> 10:32.990]  Oh, yeah.
[10:33.030 --> 10:33.630]  I'm over here.
[10:33.890 --> 10:34.050]  Yeah.
[10:34.490 --> 10:35.750]  You're up, but I don't hear you very well.
[10:35.810 --> 10:36.050]  Go ahead.
[10:36.150 --> 10:42.410]  The whole situation of having a new venue, although it's Hamburg, which is very prepared, it's still a new venue for the Congress.
[10:42.590 --> 10:44.070]  I believe they say Hamburg over there.
[10:44.330 --> 10:44.710]  Fair enough.
[10:44.750 --> 10:45.410]  If you want to be German.
[10:45.570 --> 10:45.670]  I should know better.
[10:45.670 --> 10:48.590]  We're in German mode tonight, so we want to try and do that.
[10:49.110 --> 10:56.210]  But yes, it used to be in Hamburg many times in the past before the whole misunderstanding between the two Germanys was resolved.
[10:57.650 --> 11:03.870]  And I guess now there's a return to that city because of this amazing venue that they have.
[11:03.950 --> 11:05.070]  I really wish I could see this.
[11:05.750 --> 11:06.610]  Were you here for this?
[11:06.690 --> 11:08.150]  Five floors is what they have.
[11:08.310 --> 11:08.890]  They described it.
[11:08.970 --> 11:09.330]  Five floors.
[11:09.550 --> 11:11.750]  They can have 10,000 people in there.
[11:11.790 --> 11:13.350]  I'm not sure if they have 10,000 people.
[11:14.270 --> 11:17.270]  They usually can sell out their conferences in about three seconds.
[11:18.330 --> 11:25.330]  In fact, the German conferences were known to us as conferences where they were urging people not to come.
[11:26.090 --> 11:29.690]  Really, because too many people were coming and they really didn't like that.
[11:29.830 --> 11:31.610]  They wanted to limit it to a certain number.
[11:31.750 --> 11:32.530]  And I like that.
[11:32.530 --> 11:33.730]  I can understand that.
[11:33.950 --> 11:43.950]  You don't want a conference to become more than a few thousand people because then it turns into, you know, a rock concert or something and there's no personal interaction of a meaningful sort.
[11:45.150 --> 11:50.950]  So, yeah, but there's a danger, I guess, of it getting really, really huge and big with such a nice venue.
[11:51.150 --> 12:04.350]  I always liked the initiative that the CCC has been trying to do over the years to encourage people wherever they live to get together and do their own sort of mini congress and they can watch the talks that are going on at that time in Berlin from their club,
[12:04.510 --> 12:06.150]  from their hacker space, wherever they are in the world.
[12:06.150 --> 12:06.910]  I like that initiative.
[12:07.090 --> 12:07.770]  It was kind of like local.
[12:08.070 --> 12:13.630]  Yeah, and they're able to transmit what's going on at the congress to those other cities.
[12:13.630 --> 12:20.070]  In fact, they even are able to make it in 3D so that you're actually there and you can interact with the people.
[12:20.250 --> 12:21.890]  They work magic over there in Germany.
[12:21.890 --> 12:22.470]  They really do.
[12:22.610 --> 12:22.970]  That's true.
[12:23.090 --> 12:24.910]  Except they can't seem to connect to us, can they, Mike?
[12:24.990 --> 12:25.590]  What's going on?
[12:26.650 --> 12:28.870]  This program, Skype, you may have heard of it.
[12:28.910 --> 12:29.350]  It's terrible.
[12:29.430 --> 12:30.210]  I don't know how to use it.
[12:30.270 --> 12:32.270]  Oh, we're going to get email now from the Skype people.
[12:32.450 --> 12:33.230]  It's a Microsoft product.
[12:33.450 --> 12:33.690]  Yeah.
[12:34.350 --> 12:35.370]  Do we even have Bernie?
[12:37.810 --> 12:39.070]  Mike, we can't hear you think.
[12:39.350 --> 12:39.970]  Yes or no?
[12:40.290 --> 12:41.610]  So there's a thing that says Bernie.
[12:41.630 --> 12:42.470]  Into the microphone.
[12:42.630 --> 12:43.770]  There's a thing that says Bernie.
[12:43.930 --> 12:44.030]  Yes.
[12:44.030 --> 12:45.790]  And he's on hold.
[12:45.790 --> 12:48.750]  And I click the unhold button and he doesn't come off of hold.
[12:48.930 --> 12:49.170]  Okay.
[12:49.290 --> 12:50.910]  Just quit the program and start over.
[12:50.970 --> 12:52.570]  That's what I always do every day.
[12:53.410 --> 12:53.830]  All right.
[12:53.870 --> 12:58.870]  Let's go over some news if we can get through that.
[12:59.070 --> 13:06.050]  And hopefully we'll get back to the folks in Germany really, really soon because they obviously are up to all kinds of fun things.
[13:06.210 --> 13:07.190]  I really wish I was there.
[13:07.630 --> 13:07.990]  Yeah.
[13:08.190 --> 13:08.410]  Yeah.
[13:08.410 --> 13:10.010]  It was a hard choice this year not to go as well.
[13:10.010 --> 13:11.630]  Oh, you live in Holland.
[13:11.970 --> 13:12.230]  I know.
[13:12.790 --> 13:14.450]  I guess you came back for the holidays.
[13:14.570 --> 13:15.870]  Is that why you aren't there for this?
[13:16.070 --> 13:21.390]  I came back for the holidays and I had that big project involving the Middle East where I was working with a journalist that's based here.
[13:21.410 --> 13:24.310]  So I came back to continue that project to edit the audio.
[13:24.610 --> 13:28.190]  And well, I had to choose not to go to the Congress, but I also wanted to change it up a little.
[13:28.190 --> 13:28.510]  Yes.
[13:28.830 --> 13:31.410]  And we've always got camp this coming year.
[13:31.650 --> 13:31.790]  Ohm.
[13:32.010 --> 13:32.950]  O-H-M.
[13:33.130 --> 13:37.730]  Ohm 2013 taking place in Holland, I believe the first week of August.
[13:38.370 --> 13:39.270]  That's going to be amazing.
[13:39.530 --> 13:39.670]  Yeah.
[13:39.730 --> 13:42.010]  And so we'll make up for having missed this by being there.
[13:42.170 --> 13:42.450]  Yes.
[13:42.690 --> 13:43.370]  Most definitely.
[13:44.430 --> 13:44.830]  Okay.
[13:46.110 --> 13:47.210]  No media progress.
[13:47.350 --> 13:47.410]  Okay.
[13:47.490 --> 13:48.910]  Mike is still tearing his hair out over there.
[13:49.010 --> 13:50.350]  So I'm going to go into some news here.
[13:50.970 --> 13:54.130]  And our good friends over at WikiLeaks are back in the news.
[13:54.130 --> 14:00.570]  They will be releasing one million documents next year, affecting every country in the world.
[14:00.810 --> 14:03.970]  That's according to founder Julian Assange.
[14:04.230 --> 14:10.770]  And I really want to see the WikiLeaks memorandum or whatever that affects Togo.
[14:11.790 --> 14:13.250]  That's the one I'm waiting for.
[14:13.450 --> 14:13.610]  Yeah.
[14:13.790 --> 14:14.070]  All right.
[14:14.210 --> 14:15.510]  It's small, but it's significant.
[14:15.710 --> 14:16.350]  It is significant.
[14:16.650 --> 14:18.130]  And this will prove it.
[14:18.650 --> 14:24.970]  In a Christmas message marking six months since he sought asylum in the embassy to avoid extradition to Sweden.
[14:25.830 --> 14:29.830]  Assange also said the door was open to negotiations.
[14:30.890 --> 14:47.990]  He said, basically, he was responding to cheers from around 100 supporters and said that despite spending half of 2012 holed up in the building, it had been a huge year in which the anti-secrecy website had released documents about Syria and other topics.
[14:48.150 --> 14:50.350]  He said next year will be equally busy.
[14:50.350 --> 14:59.450]  WikiLeaks has already over one million documents being prepared to be released, documents that affect every country in the world, every country in the world.
[14:59.510 --> 15:01.670]  He repeated that because that is a significant statement.
[15:02.210 --> 15:09.890]  The Australian former computer hacker thanked Ecuadorian President Rafael Correa for granting him asylum.
[15:10.210 --> 15:15.510]  And basically, he lashed out at the United States and other Western governments.
[15:15.510 --> 15:17.390]  It's the democracy is not the White House.
[15:17.850 --> 15:18.370]  I'm sorry.
[15:18.470 --> 15:19.490]  True democracy is not the White House.
[15:19.590 --> 15:21.050]  True democracy is not cameras.
[15:21.630 --> 15:29.070]  True democracy is the resistance of people armed with the truth against lies from Tahrir to London.
[15:29.810 --> 15:37.310]  But he also added that the door is open and the door has always been open for anyone who wishes to speak to me to resolve the situation.
[15:38.110 --> 15:39.730]  Was there anything to that...
[15:39.730 --> 15:44.050]  I don't think it was a rumor that he would run for Australian Parliament?
[15:44.270 --> 15:45.350]  Did you guys talk about that already?
[15:45.610 --> 15:50.610]  We haven't talked about that, but that was something that I saw on the news, but I don't believe that...
[15:50.610 --> 15:51.590]  No confirmation.
[15:51.930 --> 15:53.670]  There has been any confirmation on that.
[15:54.890 --> 15:55.610]  But interesting.
[15:56.210 --> 16:00.170]  Mark, let me ask you, if you could say something to resolve this, what do you think it would be?
[16:00.170 --> 16:12.830]  What kind of negotiation could get Julian back in the regular world and out of this tiny Ecuadorian place that he's living in?
[16:13.010 --> 16:14.610]  Perhaps a few more allies.
[16:14.810 --> 16:15.530]  I mean, that also...
[16:15.530 --> 16:16.270]  You have to wait.
[16:16.450 --> 16:19.170]  You know, this is one of those cases where time may heal some things.
[16:19.510 --> 16:24.230]  And in terms of having more allies, because it feels like not enough world leaders...
[16:24.790 --> 16:29.670]  I mean, in this case, it took Correa to really take action or at least allow for this to happen.
[16:29.670 --> 16:32.630]  A few more allies, I think, could make quite a difference.
[16:32.770 --> 16:34.210]  Now, what's that going to take?
[16:34.330 --> 16:41.950]  Well, that may take electoral changes in some countries, the rise of new, perhaps young or different-minded leaders.
[16:42.050 --> 16:43.310]  And we're not going to have that here.
[16:43.310 --> 16:55.330]  We've already had the election or re-election of Obama, but maybe some other countries in the world would sort of stand with Korea and then say, we'd also like to give asylum or we'd also like to see some change.
[16:55.330 --> 17:02.650]  But I think what you also need is Sweden to sort of change its tune or approach the issue differently.
[17:02.650 --> 17:04.350]  And I don't know if that's going to happen.
[17:04.530 --> 17:07.850]  I don't know if that's asking too much of the legal system there.
[17:08.230 --> 17:18.990]  Well, if they would just basically treat things like they're not about to do exactly what he's afraid of, which is extradition to the United States, some guarantees.
[17:18.990 --> 17:31.510]  I mean, obviously, the story is big enough where that is appropriate to say something straight from, I don't know, the State Department, maybe Obama himself saying, no, we have no intention of extraditing Mr. Assange to the United States.
[17:31.890 --> 17:37.670]  I think he would take them on their word, even though he certainly has a lot of reason not to.
[17:37.770 --> 17:43.770]  But it would basically make the United States a bunch of liars if they said that and did otherwise.
[17:43.770 --> 17:45.010]  And the whole world would see that.
[17:45.010 --> 17:51.730]  And I think Julian is the type of person that would offer himself up to prove that point if it came down to that.
[17:52.130 --> 18:01.930]  The other issue is the fact that this is a guy that supposedly has violated the terms of his probation or his bail.
[18:02.530 --> 18:07.390]  But everybody who does that does not get surrounded by bobbies in London.
[18:07.550 --> 18:10.950]  So obviously, they're treating it not like a typical case.
[18:11.150 --> 18:12.730]  They've got extraordinary response.
[18:12.730 --> 18:16.150]  So that, to me, confirms his fears.
[18:17.450 --> 18:33.870]  It's this approach where you treat him like some kind of a, what do you call it, terrorism suspect as opposed to someone, an individual with rights who should or shouldn't be able to defend himself, well, should be able to defend himself in a court, be it a Swedish court or a British court.
[18:34.470 --> 18:36.870]  And yeah, that they're not really approaching it that way.
[18:36.930 --> 18:37.210]  The U.S.
[18:37.330 --> 18:38.190]  doesn't approach it that way.
[18:39.250 --> 18:42.270]  Anyway, so hopefully he won't be holed up in there too much longer.
[18:43.330 --> 18:50.330]  Okay, I've just asked Bernie to call us because Mike's having a lot of trouble with the Skype and I guess we have to go back to the old-fashioned way of doing things.
[18:50.410 --> 18:51.930]  Well, if you turn it up, we might hear them.
[18:52.010 --> 18:52.350]  Oh, wait.
[18:52.530 --> 18:53.310]  Okay, I didn't know that.
[18:53.610 --> 18:54.430]  Is anybody there?
[18:55.170 --> 18:55.910]  Can you guys hear us?
[18:55.910 --> 18:56.410]  Oh, there they are.
[18:56.570 --> 18:57.210]  Okay, all right.
[18:57.990 --> 18:59.750]  Yes, and Philadelphia is here as well.
[18:59.870 --> 19:00.870]  Okay, so everyone's there.
[19:00.970 --> 19:07.350]  All right, Bernie, I just texted you the phone number to call if you get disconnected again so we don't have this long period of nothing.
[19:07.770 --> 19:11.790]  I think we were just turned down on the board there in New York, so I think we're all connected.
[19:12.290 --> 19:15.930]  Okay, well, let's go to the folks in Germany now because we don't know how long we have you for.
[19:17.510 --> 19:19.050]  Depends on when the moon goes around.
[19:19.150 --> 19:23.370]  Now, Mitch, you were saying something about what you were doing.
[19:24.330 --> 19:25.050]  Yeah, yeah.
[19:25.110 --> 19:32.790]  So I'm helping organize the hardware hacking area, which is several hundred square meters, multiply by 10 to get square feet about.
[19:32.790 --> 19:37.070]  And it's big, like everything here at Congress.
[19:37.470 --> 19:45.870]  And so I'll be doing, with Jimmy and a bunch of other people, Flo from MetaLab, teaching people how to solder with lots of cool kits.
[19:45.970 --> 19:49.010]  And I'll be doing my Arduino for Total Movies workshops.
[19:49.850 --> 19:53.030]  Are any of you others doing some presentations or talks?
[19:53.670 --> 19:54.990]  I'm just helping out.
[19:55.250 --> 19:59.810]  I find that it's helpful if you show up to Congress early and help with the setup.
[19:59.810 --> 20:06.810]  You know, they usually have various art installations that they need people to help put up and other things.
[20:06.890 --> 20:08.250]  And that way you get to know people.
[20:08.950 --> 20:11.750]  And especially in such a large venue, there's plenty of people who go around.
[20:12.230 --> 20:13.770]  What in God's name is that noise?
[20:13.850 --> 20:15.150]  Is somebody running water or something?
[20:16.190 --> 20:17.590]  No, it's just...
[20:18.330 --> 20:21.550]  It's all the water of the Atlantic Ocean between us and you.
[20:22.170 --> 20:23.410]  Wow, it's just like the old days.
[20:23.510 --> 20:23.730]  Okay.
[20:24.450 --> 20:25.950]  Well, let me just ask you guys something.
[20:26.170 --> 20:26.970]  There's five floors.
[20:27.090 --> 20:27.990]  I'm still blown away by this.
[20:28.190 --> 20:31.370]  Could you give us an idea of the layout of each of the five floors?
[20:32.630 --> 20:34.630]  Well, we have the map in front of us.
[20:34.790 --> 20:35.690]  Well, that would be helpful then.
[20:35.910 --> 20:40.270]  Part of it is the main auditorium that takes up all five floors.
[20:40.530 --> 20:45.170]  Well, three of the five floors and one of the towers.
[20:45.650 --> 20:48.070]  So, the auditorium takes up three floors.
[20:48.750 --> 20:55.010]  Yeah, it's three floors if it's 4,000 people to stare at the terrified person trying to communicate to everybody.
[20:55.750 --> 20:57.930]  But Floor Zero has registration.
[20:57.930 --> 20:59.590]  It has the hardware hacking area.
[21:02.110 --> 21:05.830]  And I've been here for two days and I still haven't even seen the whole place.
[21:06.470 --> 21:08.030]  We haven't thought about Floor Two.
[21:08.250 --> 21:09.890]  We haven't thought about Floor Two.
[21:09.890 --> 21:17.070]  But Floor One has a lot of administrative and heaven, and heaven's where the angles live.
[21:17.090 --> 21:18.850]  Angles are the word for volunteers.
[21:19.750 --> 21:22.550]  And there's a lot of cooking going on.
[21:22.910 --> 21:25.130]  On Floor Two, there's food hacking.
[21:25.570 --> 21:32.010]  There's also a bunch of people who have fabrication tools like laser cutters and 3D printers and shopbots.
[21:32.270 --> 21:40.370]  And of course, on every floor, there's lots and lots of art in the form of LEDs and lasers and lights and other forms of art.
[21:41.590 --> 21:45.190]  Floor Three, anyone have any clue on what's on the floor?
[21:45.350 --> 21:48.630]  That's where, like, the CTF-type stuff is going to happen.
[21:48.910 --> 21:49.610]  Capture the Flag?
[21:49.870 --> 21:52.310]  Well, I don't think there's official Capture the Flag.
[21:52.810 --> 21:53.890]  There are a lot of projects.
[21:54.090 --> 21:55.230]  There is an official Capture the Flag.
[21:55.330 --> 21:58.030]  Okay, let's get the final two floors before this noise overtakes us.
[21:59.490 --> 22:03.950]  Yeah, and there's also Millie Ways, a restaurant with McFly.
[22:04.190 --> 22:05.250]  That's Floor Four.
[22:05.250 --> 22:10.110]  Floor Four, where there's also the Non-Smoker's Lounge for the first time we have one.
[22:10.110 --> 22:10.350]  And the Ball Pit again.
[22:11.090 --> 22:12.190]  Oh, yeah, there's the Ball Pit.
[22:12.430 --> 22:14.330]  Millie Ways is actually on Floor Two.
[22:14.850 --> 22:18.670]  Also, on Floor One are the other two tracks.
[22:19.170 --> 22:21.630]  Hall Four, we'll seat...
[22:22.210 --> 22:26.670]  That's the medium-sized hall, so it will seat 900.
[22:30.170 --> 22:32.550]  The small one will only fit 400.
[22:33.010 --> 22:33.330]  Wow.
[22:34.130 --> 22:35.050]  Hardly anybody, huh?
[22:36.630 --> 22:38.690]  Oh, Club Monta is all over the place here, yeah.
[22:38.850 --> 22:40.210]  Well, I could imagine that, yes.
[22:40.330 --> 22:42.030]  Now, you mentioned the five floors.
[22:42.070 --> 22:42.790]  What about the roof?
[22:44.890 --> 22:46.010]  It's kind of cold out.
[22:47.330 --> 22:49.550]  It's not a hacker conference if people don't go on the roof.
[22:51.450 --> 22:52.130]  Don't hurt it.
[22:52.630 --> 22:58.290]  Yeah, there's huge letters that say CCH for Congress Zentrum Hamburg.
[22:59.290 --> 23:01.530]  Now, let me ask you something about the city.
[23:02.270 --> 23:05.070]  It's not in Berlin, which has a lot of activity at night.
[23:05.070 --> 23:07.570]  Is there a lot of activity at night in Hamburg?
[23:08.570 --> 23:10.630]  Yeah, right at the CCH where we are.
[23:11.510 --> 23:13.010]  Well, obviously, but apart from that.
[23:13.010 --> 23:17.610]  Well, so for the last three days, everything has been closed.
[23:17.750 --> 23:22.090]  They close everything for Christmas Eve, for Christmas, and for the day after Christmas.
[23:22.310 --> 23:23.950]  For the entire country of Germany.
[23:23.950 --> 23:25.450]  It's even hard to find food.
[23:25.470 --> 23:27.130]  I had to eat at McDonald's.
[23:27.210 --> 23:38.210]  Well, actually, you know, one time I was in Hamburg on a Sunday, which they do similar things, I found that the train station there, the train station at the main one, that's where everything was still open.
[23:38.630 --> 23:42.490]  Yeah, I had some delicious pickled herring at the main train station.
[23:44.230 --> 23:45.330]  Yeah, I had good...
[23:45.330 --> 23:45.470]  It's very good.
[23:45.570 --> 23:46.450]  It's a local cuisine.
[23:46.610 --> 23:47.210]  Good frites.
[23:47.490 --> 23:50.650]  But we found an Indian restaurant open until, what, three in the morning?
[23:50.790 --> 23:51.190]  Oh, wow.
[23:51.510 --> 23:51.690]  Yeah.
[23:52.250 --> 23:52.610]  Shalimar.
[23:53.010 --> 23:53.470]  It's wonderful.
[23:53.750 --> 23:55.630]  So if you're ever in Hamburg, I recommend it.
[23:56.570 --> 24:01.250]  Okay, well, I'm sure that endorsement will be appreciated by the Indian-German restaurant that's over there.
[24:04.050 --> 24:05.470]  But, guys, we have to move on.
[24:05.550 --> 24:10.550]  But anything else as far as what's going on this year that might be unique that our listeners would be interested in?
[24:12.590 --> 24:14.150]  A whole bunch of stuff is happening.
[24:14.250 --> 24:15.770]  I recommend checking out the website.
[24:15.770 --> 24:18.770]  Is it events.ccc.de?
[24:19.090 --> 24:23.430]  And I believe they will be doing live streaming on the talk, so you can check it out.
[24:23.690 --> 24:25.490]  And there's all kinds of cool stuff going on.
[24:25.690 --> 24:27.390]  So we can watch it all from here.
[24:28.050 --> 24:33.430]  Yeah, 11.30 is the keynote by Jake Applebaum at Central European time.
[24:35.050 --> 24:37.350]  And subtract six to get Eastern time.
[24:37.490 --> 24:39.690]  That'll be 5.30 in the morning for New Yorkers.
[24:39.690 --> 24:42.450]  Well, you know, what time is it there for you guys right now?
[24:43.570 --> 24:45.270]  A bit after 1 in the morning.
[24:45.550 --> 24:46.350]  Yeah, almost 1.30.
[24:46.630 --> 24:49.450]  They're being inconvenienced for us, so we can be inconvenienced for them.
[24:49.570 --> 24:50.950]  We'll be up at 5.30 sharp.
[24:52.790 --> 24:53.850]  I'm not inconvenienced.
[24:53.930 --> 24:54.750]  I'm jet lagged.
[24:56.330 --> 24:57.910]  There's a bunch of people jet lagged.
[24:57.910 --> 25:02.730]  I've been in Europe for the last two months on tour giving workshops and talks.
[25:03.170 --> 25:06.910]  So I'm on time, but I haven't had enough sleep, so I'm tired too.
[25:07.570 --> 25:10.510]  Well, you're not going to be catching up the next four days, I can tell you that.
[25:13.310 --> 25:13.750]  Clearly.
[25:14.050 --> 25:17.730]  But I'll see you all in New York after the first of the year.
[25:18.290 --> 25:18.570]  Okay.
[25:18.790 --> 25:20.330]  Guys, it's been great hearing from you.
[25:20.330 --> 25:21.310]  I wish I was over there.
[25:21.430 --> 25:22.570]  I think we all wish we were over there.
[25:23.070 --> 25:26.350]  But please have a lot of fun and let us know how it goes.
[25:26.670 --> 25:28.450]  And say hi to everybody over there for us.
[25:28.530 --> 25:29.130]  I mean, everybody.
[25:30.470 --> 25:31.330]  Thank you, Emmanuel.
[25:31.570 --> 25:31.930]  We'll do.
[25:32.150 --> 25:34.110]  $6,000 for all of our closest friends.
[25:34.330 --> 25:34.750]  Yes, indeed.
[25:35.390 --> 25:35.790]  Okay.
[25:36.290 --> 25:42.130]  And that's the gang over in Hamburg, Germany, at the start of the Chaos Communication Congress.
[25:42.130 --> 25:45.390]  The first one back in Hamburg in many years.
[25:46.330 --> 25:48.990]  You know, I'm going to miss the place in Berlin.
[25:48.990 --> 25:50.510]  That was such a great building.
[25:50.550 --> 25:51.870]  And I thought that building was huge.
[25:52.110 --> 25:54.870]  It was, you know, three levels, but apparently not big enough.
[25:55.330 --> 25:57.710]  And it's in Berlin, which, you know, can't go wrong.
[25:57.770 --> 25:58.350]  I like Berlin.
[25:58.530 --> 26:01.450]  But again, it's good to change things up and try different things.
[26:01.490 --> 26:03.810]  Of course, we really changed things up this year by not even going.
[26:06.250 --> 26:10.010]  But hopefully, hopefully it'll go smoothly and we'll make it to one of those.
[26:10.570 --> 26:11.590]  Bernie's still with us, right?
[26:11.710 --> 26:12.210]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[26:13.250 --> 26:37.170]  Since this venue in Hamburg they're in can accommodate 6,000 people, I'm curious how many people, how many attendees to CCC this year they'll actually have and whether this is sort of a a game changer in the world of hacker conferences, if this means that there's a demand for larger venues?
[26:38.150 --> 26:40.950]  I guess we'll find out next week the attendance figures.
[26:41.110 --> 26:44.030]  I don't think anyone knows yet exactly how many people will show up.
[26:44.190 --> 26:45.890]  Well, someone made reference to 6,000 people.
[26:46.070 --> 26:47.310]  So that's pretty good.
[26:47.450 --> 26:59.070]  I know that the organizers, I mean, that's one of the funnest things, actually, every year being there to get to talk with the organizers and to see the look on their faces as all these people are running around half asleep, half awake, doing so many things.
[26:59.170 --> 27:00.530]  When do they ever have time to talk to you?
[27:00.830 --> 27:03.690]  Well, once it starts going, they say it's an animal unto itself.
[27:03.970 --> 27:04.270]  Okay.
[27:04.530 --> 27:04.650]  Yeah.
[27:04.810 --> 27:07.070]  But they've said they kind of want to see how it goes.
[27:07.250 --> 27:14.070]  It's an experiment in many ways to see how with more people, larger space, does it feel any better or worse?
[27:14.230 --> 27:16.590]  And then sort of adjust depending on what happens this year.
[27:16.770 --> 27:20.550]  So we may indeed be back in Hamburg in 2013.
[27:21.290 --> 27:23.990]  Yeah, I think that's the plan is to be there every year.
[27:24.970 --> 27:25.470]  Okay.
[27:25.610 --> 27:27.530]  You know, we have a new museum in this city.
[27:27.690 --> 27:32.690]  We have the Math Museum, the only one of its kind in the country.
[27:32.690 --> 27:34.750]  New York City's brand new Museum of Mathematics.
[27:35.470 --> 27:39.250]  It's a place where math is anything but boring, they say.
[27:39.410 --> 27:46.030]  Squealing school children, riding a square-wheeled tricycle on a coaster roller that glides over plastic acorns.
[27:46.290 --> 27:51.090]  And downstairs, they fit monkey magnets together at the tessellation station.
[27:51.670 --> 27:53.610]  The museum is nicknamed MoMath.
[27:53.810 --> 27:58.250]  It opened on December 15th on two floors of an office building north of Manhattan's Madison Square Park.
[27:58.670 --> 28:08.510]  It's the brainchild of Executive Director Glenn Whitney, a mathematician and former hedge fund analyst who helped raise $23.5 million for the 19,000 square foot museum.
[28:09.670 --> 28:12.170]  So just to let people know, there's a math museum in town.
[28:13.010 --> 28:13.570]  Where did you say?
[28:13.570 --> 28:14.530]  Madison Square Park?
[28:14.810 --> 28:16.190]  Yeah, just north of Madison Square Park.
[28:16.310 --> 28:17.050]  All right, I'll check it out.
[28:17.050 --> 28:17.350]  So yes.
[28:18.150 --> 28:20.450]  So please let us know how that is.
[28:21.230 --> 28:25.350]  Now, a hacker has claimed to have stolen Verizon customer data.
[28:26.670 --> 28:28.570]  Twitter user TibitX...
[28:29.110 --> 28:29.970]  I'm just going to spell it.
[28:30.050 --> 28:32.670]  T-I-B-I-T-X-I-M-E-R.
[28:32.850 --> 28:36.830]  But you won't find him there because his Twitter account was suspended following that announcement.
[28:36.830 --> 28:46.570]  But he claimed to have stolen data on more than 3 million Verizon Fios customers, though Verizon says its systems have not been hacked.
[28:47.170 --> 28:59.950]  The hacker who says the breach took place on July 13th, which was the opening day of the Hope Conference, by the way, not saying anything, I'm just saying that's a coincidence, he recently posted 300,000 records on Pastebin.
[28:59.950 --> 29:03.870]  I love that you can post 300,000 of anything on Pastebin.
[29:04.730 --> 29:19.550]  A fraction of the downloaded data has been published on the code-sharing site Pastebin after Verizon failed to fix the vulnerability in its network, the hacker said, noting that the data was stored in plain text and did not require decryption.
[29:20.190 --> 29:26.150]  He said that after he informed Verizon of the exploit, the company, quote, ignored my report, unquote, and did not comment.
[29:26.150 --> 29:32.410]  He said he worked alone, and while he supports Anonymous, he is not directly associated with the hacking collective.
[29:32.950 --> 29:36.150]  Now, what Verizon is saying is, our systems have not been hacked.
[29:36.350 --> 29:41.730]  We reported this incident to the authorities when we first learned of it months ago, and an investigation was launched.
[29:42.010 --> 29:45.370]  Many of the details surrounding this incident are incorrect and exaggerated.
[29:45.630 --> 29:47.350]  No Verizon systems were breached.
[29:47.690 --> 29:49.090]  No root access was gained.
[29:49.350 --> 29:53.190]  And this incident impacted a fraction of the number of individuals being reported.
[29:53.190 --> 30:00.150]  You know, the question to me is, how do you get 300,000 users, 300,000 customers?
[30:00.430 --> 30:02.430]  That seems like a significant breach, right?
[30:02.490 --> 30:05.870]  So if you listen to the statement, at the beginning, they say absolutely nothing happened.
[30:05.870 --> 30:09.790]  And then they say the incident that did happen impacted only a fraction of the people.
[30:10.470 --> 30:11.230]  Yeah, you know what?
[30:11.330 --> 30:12.510]  I mean, they can't both be true.
[30:13.010 --> 30:16.950]  If I was a customer, I'd be less than a fraction of their total customer base.
[30:17.090 --> 30:18.490]  So that means I don't count.
[30:18.690 --> 30:19.370]  It's insignificant.
[30:20.350 --> 30:21.170]  I'm sorry, Emmanuel.
[30:21.170 --> 30:22.430]  You know you don't count to Verizon.
[30:22.690 --> 30:23.210]  I know that.
[30:23.210 --> 30:25.690]  But right now, I really don't count because I'm not even their customer anymore.
[30:25.910 --> 30:27.430]  So I feel kind of good about that.
[30:27.990 --> 30:29.950]  There's some more information on this story.
[30:30.050 --> 30:37.810]  There's been other reports that this was a third party that Verizon was sharing customer information with that had actually been hacked.
[30:38.270 --> 30:49.050]  That way, if that's the case, then Verizon gets to deny that, oh, we didn't do anything wrong, except that they shared information about customers with an untrustworthy business partner.
[30:49.050 --> 31:03.510]  So basically, what we get out of this is that Verizon says their systems weren't accessed by an unauthorized party who let all the information out, but it was accessed by an authorized party who let all the information out.
[31:03.590 --> 31:05.790]  So I don't feel any better by that.
[31:05.870 --> 31:10.770]  That means that it's a lot easier to get that information than anyone could have imagined.
[31:10.770 --> 31:25.550]  This brings up something that our listeners should know about, and that is Verizon and other companies you deal with typically, I think, are required by federal law to allow customers to opt out of information sharing with third parties.
[31:26.330 --> 31:34.810]  A lot of companies want to sell your information to other companies, and they don't give you anything in return for your privacy loss.
[31:35.430 --> 31:45.750]  So it would be worth calling all companies you deal with that have your information in a computer, which is probably every company you deal with, and ask what their opt-out options are for information sharing.
[31:45.890 --> 31:46.930]  Bernie, that sounds lovely.
[31:47.190 --> 31:54.770]  But every company I do business with that may have any information about me, I don't even I don't even know every company I do business with.
[31:54.890 --> 32:09.830]  Well, the ones that you know you do business with, it would behoove them, and I've done this as a habit with every company I deal with, to find out what their opt-out options are, and opt-out of everything that allows them to share my info with their so-called affiliates.
[32:10.510 --> 32:12.430]  And that cuts down on a lot of this stuff.
[32:12.590 --> 32:15.090]  So, you know, it can help.
[32:15.270 --> 32:16.910]  I take issue with something Mike said.
[32:17.070 --> 32:18.110]  That does not sound lovely.
[32:18.290 --> 32:19.770]  Bernie, you sound all choppy and crazy.
[32:20.350 --> 32:21.470]  Let's take a vote right now.
[32:21.470 --> 32:23.890]  Is Bernie better on Skype, or is he better on the phone?
[32:24.130 --> 32:24.970]  Which do you think, Mike?
[32:25.210 --> 32:28.230]  It's so difficult to say, because they each have their own, you know, ups and downs.
[32:28.830 --> 32:31.970]  He's better on the phone, but his tone is lovely via Skype.
[32:32.030 --> 32:37.710]  Well, I do like his tone, but, you know, it's kind of making me angry, because every other word gets chopped a little bit.
[32:38.110 --> 32:39.930]  Should I call in?
[32:40.610 --> 32:41.330]  It's too late.
[32:41.770 --> 32:42.610]  It's not too late.
[32:42.670 --> 32:43.750]  What do you mean it's too late?
[32:44.870 --> 32:45.510]  We're committed.
[32:45.990 --> 32:47.410]  There's no curfew on phones.
[32:48.210 --> 32:50.290]  Let's try for, like, a couple more paragraphs, Bernie.
[32:50.290 --> 32:54.210]  And if we have more of an issue, we're going to insist that you call us.
[32:54.350 --> 32:54.510]  Okay.
[32:54.730 --> 32:56.090]  Sorry about the spotty connection.
[32:56.250 --> 32:56.690]  Yeah, I don't know.
[32:56.750 --> 32:58.670]  Maybe you're doing something wrong, but I can't imagine...
[32:58.670 --> 33:04.510]  No, I'm using a clear wire WiMAX connection, which is the only internet I can get where I am right now.
[33:04.650 --> 33:04.930]  Uh-huh.
[33:05.030 --> 33:06.110]  And that's why.
[33:06.250 --> 33:07.310]  Do you think that might be the reason?
[33:08.310 --> 33:09.210]  I know that's why.
[33:09.310 --> 33:09.710]  Oh, okay.
[33:09.870 --> 33:10.570]  It's spotty.
[33:10.590 --> 33:11.610]  It's pouring rain here.
[33:11.710 --> 33:14.070]  It's like a drenching downpour right now.
[33:14.070 --> 33:19.910]  And it's a 2.5 gigahertz signal, which is significantly attenuated by gazillions of raindrops.
[33:20.170 --> 33:25.210]  Well, if you open the window and lean towards where the transmitter is, it might get a little wet.
[33:25.310 --> 33:27.330]  But come on, it's worth it for the radio station.
[33:28.090 --> 33:28.510]  Okay.
[33:28.770 --> 33:33.790]  Authorities continue to investigate what they say was the defacement of a South Carolina agency website.
[33:34.750 --> 33:43.330]  WLTX-TV reports that an image appeared on the Department of Employment and Workforce website on Saturday evening claiming this site was hacked.
[33:43.710 --> 33:53.530]  Agency spokeswoman Adrienne Farewell told the Associated Press that officials believe it was a website defacement, similar to graffiti on a wall.
[33:54.150 --> 33:54.690]  Yeah.
[33:54.870 --> 34:00.490]  She said the image was taken down after a little more than an hour and that personal identifying information was not lost or stolen.
[34:00.650 --> 34:11.030]  I find this amazing that a story like this is reported and someone actually doesn't go nuts and says, it's not a hack, it's website defacement, similar to graffiti.
[34:11.250 --> 34:12.190]  That is what it is.
[34:12.270 --> 34:13.750]  That's what it always has been.
[34:13.950 --> 34:17.370]  And it's not something that you send people to prison for multiple years for.
[34:18.390 --> 34:22.230]  So, yeah, okay, this kind of thing happens and will continue to happen.
[34:22.610 --> 34:25.230]  Let's treat it like what it is, graffiti.
[34:25.470 --> 34:25.730]  Yeah.
[34:25.750 --> 34:29.370]  And we never really called the person doing graffiti on the wall a hacker.
[34:29.790 --> 34:31.350]  That's never been the name.
[34:31.410 --> 34:31.710]  I know.
[34:32.030 --> 34:33.450]  That's incorrect, too.
[34:34.270 --> 34:39.550]  Unless, you know, you figure out a way to get through various security holes to do that in the first place.
[34:39.710 --> 34:41.390]  There is hacking involved in that.
[34:41.490 --> 34:43.010]  There's some kind of ingenuity.
[34:43.670 --> 34:49.150]  But, yeah, it's not a threat to everybody's privacy or security or things like that.
[34:49.150 --> 34:50.130]  It's actually a wake-up call.
[34:51.290 --> 34:51.770]  Okay.
[34:51.850 --> 35:03.890]  Speaking of wake-up calls, our friends over at MakerBot have done something that has spurred a little bit of controversy in this whole post-Newtown era that we live in now.
[35:04.230 --> 35:15.210]  In the wake of one of the worst shooting incidents in American history, the 3D printing firm known as MakerBot has deleted a collection of blueprints for gun components from Thingiverse.
[35:15.370 --> 35:21.170]  That's its popular user-generated content website that hosts 3D printable files.
[35:21.690 --> 35:35.930]  Though Thingiverse has long banned designs for weapons and their components in its terms of service, it rarely enforced the rule until the last few days, when the company's lawyer sent notices to users that their software models for gun parts were being purged from the site.
[35:36.890 --> 35:47.030]  And in response to that, another site has popped up called DefCAD, D-E-F-C-A-D dot O-R-G, the island of misfit objects.
[35:47.310 --> 35:50.650]  And it reads, Welcome to DefCAD, operated by Defense Distributed.
[35:51.050 --> 36:00.090]  This site is a makeshift response to MakerBot Industries' decision to censor files uploaded in good faith at Thingiverse, specifically firearms-related files.
[36:00.190 --> 36:02.510]  We are hosting as many of the pulled files as we can find.
[36:02.570 --> 36:09.030]  I'm not sure the term censorship applies here, but what do you guys think of this particular move by MakerBot?
[36:09.630 --> 36:17.710]  I go on Thingiverse occasionally to look at all the objects that are being made, and I just want to point out there are a lot of sharp objects that could be thrown or otherwise used.
[36:18.070 --> 36:18.790]  I don't know.
[36:19.050 --> 36:20.330]  Well, you have to print it out first.
[36:20.470 --> 36:20.810]  Yes.
[36:20.990 --> 36:22.970]  Which is a pretty slow process.
[36:23.790 --> 36:27.690]  But really, I think that it's a reaction to what's going on now.
[36:27.690 --> 36:36.190]  It may seem like the thing that was needed to be done, but I think in the long run, it's a place where you can make things, you can share information and designs.
[36:37.370 --> 36:41.610]  Well, let me just address the point that I made, that this isn't censorship.
[36:41.810 --> 36:43.070]  That I don't agree with.
[36:43.070 --> 36:45.790]  Yeah, that's something the government does to...
[36:45.790 --> 36:47.010]  No, your analysis is silly.
[36:47.390 --> 36:47.730]  Wait a minute.
[36:47.910 --> 36:50.090]  I haven't even started to make an analysis yet.
[36:50.370 --> 36:50.850]  Go ahead.
[36:51.310 --> 36:56.190]  Basically, censorship is something when the government steps in and says, you are not allowed to say this.
[36:56.190 --> 36:57.610]  You're not allowed to express this.
[36:57.810 --> 37:00.130]  I'm looking at words right now that I can't say.
[37:00.230 --> 37:00.810]  That's censorship.
[37:01.190 --> 37:01.570]  All right?
[37:01.750 --> 37:08.430]  A company or a website has the right to put whatever it wants on its website.
[37:08.510 --> 37:09.050]  It's not censorship.
[37:09.230 --> 37:09.870]  It's called editing.
[37:09.870 --> 37:12.270]  It's called filtering, whatever it is.
[37:13.490 --> 37:17.230]  If these people were not allowed to do it in any form, yes, that would be censorship.
[37:17.390 --> 37:17.850]  But they are.
[37:17.990 --> 37:18.990]  They put up their own website.
[37:19.010 --> 37:20.170]  We just gave out the URL.
[37:21.390 --> 37:23.630]  So people are doing what they wish to do.
[37:24.070 --> 37:24.730]  Do you find that silly?
[37:24.850 --> 37:24.910]  No.
[37:25.090 --> 37:25.990]  So without...
[37:26.590 --> 37:28.010]  And it's going to be difficult to do.
[37:28.110 --> 37:33.090]  But without saying whether or not they have the right to do it, they certainly have the right to do it.
[37:33.670 --> 37:45.310]  But if you run a forum for the public to speak and you say who can and cannot say things in that forum, then that is censorship whether or not you're the government.
[37:45.610 --> 37:47.910]  Now, maybe in this case it's the right thing to do.
[37:47.990 --> 37:48.610]  Maybe it's okay.
[37:48.610 --> 37:49.030]  No, they're not saying that.
[37:49.050 --> 37:50.370]  They're not saying who can and who can't.
[37:50.470 --> 37:54.750]  They're saying this is not acceptable subject matter that we want to spread around.
[37:54.830 --> 37:56.330]  It's not a question of who is posting.
[37:57.150 --> 37:57.670]  All right.
[37:57.770 --> 38:05.450]  If Facebook made a rule that you can't use Facebook to criticize Facebook, then we would call that censorship and rightfully so.
[38:05.650 --> 38:06.550]  That's not a rule they made.
[38:06.550 --> 38:08.870]  Facebook has a rule you can't post, say, nudity on it.
[38:08.990 --> 38:13.550]  Now, do you consider that censorship or do you consider that terms of service that they have every right to impose?
[38:13.750 --> 38:14.210]  I don't...
[38:14.210 --> 38:14.730]  It's both.
[38:14.750 --> 38:15.970]  I don't see a difference.
[38:16.510 --> 38:16.790]  All right.
[38:16.990 --> 38:17.390]  Well...
[38:17.390 --> 38:18.950]  And the trick is...
[38:18.950 --> 38:28.790]  And what you're saying, you've said this about Facebook in the past, is that it's a private entity that we sort of opt into so they can change their policies and make their own rules.
[38:28.790 --> 38:30.410]  And we are just users.
[38:30.610 --> 38:36.670]  I mean, it's not like a democracy where we're citizens and, you know, we're choosing to be part of these systems, including, I guess, Thingiverse.
[38:37.250 --> 38:39.610]  And plus, it was in their terms of service to start with.
[38:39.770 --> 38:41.250]  So I don't know what everybody's so surprised about.
[38:41.450 --> 38:42.930]  The terms of service had been there for quite a while.
[38:43.110 --> 38:45.770]  They were kind of lax in enforcing the terms of service.
[38:45.770 --> 38:55.330]  But after this horrible tragedy where a bunch of people got gunned down, they decided to enforce the existing terms of service.
[38:55.450 --> 39:04.450]  So if this wasn't sprung on anybody in surprise, I really don't have a big problem with them enforcing their own terms of service, which have been published for a long time.
[39:05.150 --> 39:05.590]  Right.
[39:05.650 --> 39:06.550]  And that's the beauty of the Internet.
[39:06.550 --> 39:11.350]  If you can't express yourself in one place, then you can express yourself someplace else.
[39:11.730 --> 39:14.390]  And if enough people are interested, they will follow you over there.
[39:15.030 --> 39:20.290]  But, you know, supporting this does not mean you support the actual end product.
[39:20.450 --> 39:22.310]  I hope people realize the difference between that.
[39:22.790 --> 39:31.250]  Knowledge is something that we're always going to stand up for, regardless of if that knowledge leads to bad things or good things.
[39:31.370 --> 39:32.730]  And knowledge is not the problem.
[39:32.910 --> 39:35.730]  It's the use of whatever you learn.
[39:35.970 --> 39:37.010]  That's the problem.
[39:37.090 --> 39:44.650]  And if you're fascinated with violence and gore and just the various things that we see around us every day, that is a problem.
[39:44.810 --> 39:47.330]  That's something, a whole other issue that needs to be addressed.
[39:48.670 --> 39:50.190]  And there's another interesting story.
[39:50.310 --> 39:52.810]  This came out in the last day or so.
[39:53.610 --> 40:08.330]  But there is a newspaper up in, I believe, Westchester County that printed a map, an interactive map, of all the registered gun owners in, I believe, Westchester and Rockland counties.
[40:08.970 --> 40:12.710]  And it was all taken from publicly available information.
[40:12.990 --> 40:20.430]  But right wing in this country is going hysterical over this, saying now that more people need to...
[40:20.430 --> 40:22.050]  The answer is always more people need to get guns.
[40:22.170 --> 40:26.290]  More people need to get guns because now a map has been printed of the people who don't have guns.
[40:26.450 --> 40:33.270]  And immediately an army of people is going to go over there and break into their homes and use guns on them because they don't have guns to protect themselves.
[40:33.390 --> 40:34.390]  So everyone needs to get guns now.
[40:34.390 --> 40:35.290]  It's insane.
[40:35.510 --> 40:37.410]  But, yeah, this is information.
[40:37.410 --> 40:39.250]  If it's publicly out there, it's publicly out there.
[40:39.350 --> 40:39.830]  You can't...
[40:39.830 --> 40:41.710]  This isn't the government doing this.
[40:41.810 --> 40:43.070]  It's not the media doing this.
[40:43.070 --> 40:50.130]  It's simply information that is out there for a reason that we have already decided is a proper one.
[40:50.450 --> 40:52.190]  And I'd like to see more of that.
[40:52.530 --> 40:53.110]  Don't most...
[40:53.110 --> 40:55.970]  I mean, I imagine most people in Westchester don't have guns.
[40:55.990 --> 40:59.430]  And if you just make a map of Westchester, it'll be a big map.
[40:59.790 --> 41:00.230]  But...
[41:00.230 --> 41:03.390]  It's funny because you see it going up to the border of New York.
[41:03.390 --> 41:05.470]  And it just stops right there.
[41:05.530 --> 41:08.270]  Of course, there's plenty of guns in New York City.
[41:08.270 --> 41:08.950]  We know that.
[41:09.070 --> 41:09.850]  A lot of illegal guns.
[41:09.990 --> 41:10.890]  They're just not on the map.
[41:11.110 --> 41:11.830]  They're not on the map.
[41:12.110 --> 41:13.090]  The bicycle map just showed me the map.
[41:13.170 --> 41:14.830]  It's a lot of red dots.
[41:14.950 --> 41:15.530]  Right, right.
[41:15.710 --> 41:15.890]  Yeah.
[41:16.070 --> 41:20.330]  I mean, a lot of people aren't aware of what is and isn't public information.
[41:20.330 --> 41:22.890]  And they'll get surprised when they find out.
[41:22.990 --> 41:25.590]  And then, in this day and age, you can use public information in different ways.
[41:25.590 --> 41:28.770]  You can use public information to find out what party somebody is registered for.
[41:28.950 --> 41:29.590]  You can do that.
[41:29.590 --> 41:36.310]  I can find out that what party, if you guys live in the United States, what party you have registered to vote with.
[41:36.430 --> 41:37.650]  That's not a violation of your privacy.
[41:37.650 --> 41:38.510]  That's public information.
[41:38.610 --> 41:41.030]  Is it also like how much you pay for your house if you buy a house?
[41:41.230 --> 41:42.450]  That's also public information.
[41:42.530 --> 41:44.330]  And people are often embarrassed to talk about it.
[41:44.490 --> 41:46.050]  Like, I just go find that in a courthouse.
[41:46.090 --> 41:48.950]  And what political candidates you have given money to?
[41:49.230 --> 41:49.630]  Yes.
[41:49.830 --> 41:50.070]  Yes.
[41:50.150 --> 41:50.350]  Absolutely.
[41:50.350 --> 41:53.770]  I think Huffington Post lists everybody in the country that does that.
[41:54.050 --> 41:58.330]  Well, the FEC, which is the government agency responsible for collecting the information.
[41:58.550 --> 41:59.630]  It's right on their website.
[41:59.630 --> 42:01.690]  You don't even have to go to AOL to get it.
[42:02.450 --> 42:02.850]  Okay.
[42:03.730 --> 42:05.870]  So, yeah, that's what's going on there.
[42:06.690 --> 42:09.610]  A little bit of controversy in our community, as always.
[42:09.610 --> 42:20.850]  I will say that one thing that's different is a lot of information that was theoretically public previously is now easily accessible en masse from your own home.
[42:20.950 --> 42:22.130]  And that is new.
[42:22.290 --> 42:24.450]  It provides new challenges to privacy.
[42:24.470 --> 42:29.710]  And it's something that we've started to struggle with as a society and will continue to do so.
[42:29.770 --> 42:43.150]  I think that's good because if it was only available to those people that knew it was available, people went down to the county clerk or whatever, it was still available to the wrong people and you didn't know about it.
[42:43.210 --> 42:43.930]  Now you know about it.
[42:44.090 --> 42:45.950]  It's available to the wrong people, the right people, everybody.
[42:46.270 --> 42:49.310]  And if it's an issue having that information out, at least we can confront that.
[42:49.410 --> 42:52.970]  But before, the information was out and we just didn't know the information was out.
[42:53.130 --> 42:56.190]  A couple of years ago, I formed a business in New York State.
[42:56.370 --> 43:03.470]  And there's a rule for certain types of business that when you start the business, you have to publish it in the newspaper and it's expensive and stupid.
[43:04.590 --> 43:04.950]  But...
[43:04.950 --> 43:05.530]  Wait, wait, wait.
[43:05.630 --> 43:05.930]  Back up.
[43:06.050 --> 43:06.250]  What?
[43:06.850 --> 43:09.650]  You have to publish in the newspaper that you started a business?
[43:09.730 --> 43:12.270]  If you form an LLC, it's a stupid regulation.
[43:12.270 --> 43:13.250]  I don't want to get into it.
[43:13.490 --> 43:13.890]  But...
[43:14.310 --> 43:15.590]  What newspaper is this?
[43:15.650 --> 43:16.850]  The cheapest one possible.
[43:17.090 --> 43:21.990]  So there's newspapers that are basically full of these notices because no one else reads the newspaper.
[43:21.990 --> 43:24.870]  It's got a low circulation and low advertising rates.
[43:25.030 --> 43:25.550]  The whole thing is...
[43:25.550 --> 43:26.710]  I'm going to track it down now.
[43:26.830 --> 43:27.750]  The whole thing is in aim.
[43:27.750 --> 43:41.630]  But after I started the business, before I published this announcement, I got all kinds of mail from companies that were going to help me publish these records because they had already gotten the information.
[43:41.630 --> 43:42.630]  It was already public.
[43:42.650 --> 43:48.470]  It was already in a computer before I had gone through this whole act of officially making it public.
[43:49.870 --> 43:53.210]  So I don't know why I had to pay all this extra money.
[43:53.370 --> 43:54.010]  It was very strange.
[43:54.010 --> 44:06.270]  You know, speaking of having your private information out there and kind of feeling like your privacy is somehow being violated, I went to see a movie last.
[44:06.330 --> 44:08.630]  I went to see Django Unchained.
[44:09.090 --> 44:09.870]  Good movie.
[44:10.050 --> 44:11.870]  That's the movie about the Python web framework?
[44:12.550 --> 44:13.290]  Yeah, Mike.
[44:13.430 --> 44:14.350]  That's what it's about.
[44:14.930 --> 44:17.470]  Yeah, it's the latest Quentin Tarantino movie.
[44:17.890 --> 44:21.610]  By the way, the scene where the guy gets shot, watch that carefully.
[44:21.610 --> 44:22.290]  It's pretty good.
[44:23.670 --> 44:25.330]  That's a tip to people who haven't seen it yet.
[44:27.370 --> 44:30.610]  But yeah, I wanted to make sure that I got tickets.
[44:30.670 --> 44:35.050]  So I went to Fandango, bought tickets online and picked them up at the theater.
[44:35.990 --> 44:39.450]  Today, I got email from Fandango wanting to know what I thought of that particular movie.
[44:39.490 --> 44:40.850]  And I just thought that's too much.
[44:40.990 --> 44:42.790]  You know, leave me alone already.
[44:42.950 --> 44:44.850]  I used you to buy the tickets.
[44:44.930 --> 44:47.950]  I paid the stupid fee, which I don't know what that's for.
[44:47.950 --> 44:49.730]  And now you're going to harangue me.
[44:49.850 --> 44:52.550]  Even though I clicked the box, I said, don't send me email.
[44:52.690 --> 44:54.590]  You're going to be asking me, oh, what do you think of the movie?
[44:55.690 --> 44:59.950]  And somewhere there's a record of me buying that ticket that's going to be shared with everybody.
[45:01.330 --> 45:02.350]  It's too much.
[45:02.510 --> 45:03.510]  I don't like that.
[45:03.610 --> 45:05.750]  I like to just buy something and be done with it.
[45:05.790 --> 45:06.710]  I want to fill out surveys.
[45:06.890 --> 45:08.210]  I don't want to answer questions.
[45:08.350 --> 45:09.590]  I don't want to get coupons.
[45:09.590 --> 45:12.870]  I just want to buy something and walk out the door.
[45:13.050 --> 45:14.490]  Is that unusual these days?
[45:14.750 --> 45:15.590]  I think it is.
[45:16.010 --> 45:19.030]  You know, I think it's something that you're expected to stay on.
[45:19.710 --> 45:24.410]  For instance, when you get a new credit card and you seem to get them every year now, you have to call.
[45:24.490 --> 45:26.810]  You can't just take the tape off.
[45:26.950 --> 45:27.850]  You can't just go online.
[45:27.990 --> 45:36.750]  You have to call them, speak to a human, and listen to a whole big spiel about something that they're peddling, some kind of insurance against fraud or something like that.
[45:36.750 --> 45:41.390]  And you don't know if the credit card has been turned on until they finally say it has been.
[45:41.530 --> 45:46.510]  So you're on the phone with them for five minutes, and you're trying to say goodbye, and they say, is there anything else I can help you with?
[45:46.850 --> 45:49.410]  Why would there be anything else you could help me with?
[45:49.410 --> 45:51.350]  I called because you told me to call you.
[45:51.390 --> 45:52.250]  I don't want to call you.
[45:52.350 --> 45:53.370]  I don't want to speak to you.
[45:53.370 --> 45:56.010]  I just want to get my credit card reactivated.
[45:56.270 --> 45:57.970]  In fact, you know, it should just stay active.
[45:57.970 --> 46:01.190]  I shouldn't have to do this every time they decide to send me a new one.
[46:01.610 --> 46:02.810]  It's just crazy.
[46:02.930 --> 46:03.150]  Bernie?
[46:03.890 --> 46:04.790]  It's worth noting, too.
[46:04.910 --> 46:10.950]  When you get your new credit card in the mail and you have to call and activate it, it's always a toll-free number you have to call.
[46:11.850 --> 46:14.610]  That's, I think, a ploy to get your phone number.
[46:14.670 --> 46:15.510]  Oh, it's not a ploy.
[46:15.590 --> 46:16.510]  They're very upfront about that.
[46:16.570 --> 46:22.630]  In fact, on the sticker it says, call from your home phone or call from the number that's associated with this credit card.
[46:22.770 --> 46:24.250]  And that way they know it's really you.
[46:24.670 --> 46:25.250]  Well, no.
[46:25.370 --> 46:27.090]  I never call from my home phone.
[46:27.090 --> 46:28.910]  And I'm still able to activate it.
[46:28.970 --> 46:31.470]  I call from, like, a pay phone or some public phone somewhere.
[46:31.630 --> 46:38.070]  And it never says, you're not calling from your real phone number, which, you know, I always just give them, like, a bogus phone number.
[46:38.110 --> 46:39.610]  I don't want credit card companies calling me.
[46:39.790 --> 46:42.590]  Speaking of calling, Bernie, call us because this is ridiculous.
[46:43.990 --> 46:44.850]  Okay, I'll do that.
[46:44.950 --> 46:45.190]  Thank you.
[46:45.290 --> 46:48.430]  I call credit card companies from Skype all the time.
[46:48.530 --> 46:51.910]  And then occasionally they miss an important bit of information and I have to call back again.
[46:51.910 --> 46:58.150]  I mean, sometimes when you call them from the number they have registered, you only have to enter the last four digits of the credit card.
[46:58.270 --> 46:59.330]  So there's that.
[47:00.190 --> 47:02.950]  But, yeah, you know, I think Bernie's right about that.
[47:03.050 --> 47:09.570]  They are just trying to get you to use your home phone so that they have that information as well.
[47:09.630 --> 47:10.170]  Bernie, are you there?
[47:10.830 --> 47:11.550]  Yes, I'm here.
[47:11.670 --> 47:12.070]  Okay, yeah.
[47:12.190 --> 47:13.530]  You sound much better even though you're on the phone.
[47:14.810 --> 47:24.330]  Another thing, I know that this is, you know, I'm not a very good online purchaser because I don't ever respond or rate people on eBay.
[47:24.530 --> 47:28.170]  I know that's exactly what you're supposed to do to make things better and I'm guilty.
[47:28.450 --> 47:30.450]  I just, you know, I want to buy something and be done with it.
[47:30.610 --> 47:36.530]  But, yeah, eBay has evolved into the community that it is because people give feedback, negative and positive.
[47:36.530 --> 47:37.430]  I know I should do that.
[47:37.510 --> 47:39.490]  But, you know, when I buy something, I just want it to be done.
[47:39.690 --> 47:40.710]  Is eBay still a thing?
[47:40.850 --> 47:41.470]  It is still a thing, yeah.
[47:41.470 --> 47:43.510]  I haven't heard anyone talk about it in years.
[47:43.610 --> 47:43.830]  Really?
[47:44.050 --> 47:44.210]  Yeah.
[47:44.870 --> 47:45.110]  Wow.
[47:45.190 --> 47:46.890]  Where do you buy all your stuff?
[47:47.970 --> 47:49.530]  Either the internet or in person.
[47:49.530 --> 47:50.610]  Well, that is the internet.
[47:50.810 --> 47:51.670]  eBay is the internet.
[47:51.890 --> 47:52.410]  It's on the internet.
[47:52.530 --> 47:54.710]  I guess it's a very ugly corner of the internet, though.
[47:54.990 --> 47:57.090]  Well, that's why you can buy Twinkies if you still need those.
[47:57.210 --> 47:57.730]  I don't.
[47:57.850 --> 47:58.150]  All right.
[47:58.230 --> 47:59.970]  Or Snowballs or Yodels or...
[47:59.970 --> 48:00.810]  I don't need any of those.
[48:00.810 --> 48:05.730]  I can't believe how many junk food items are gone now because one company went out of business.
[48:05.950 --> 48:11.270]  I have to say, like, not that I'm a health nut, but I haven't even noticed a single thing missing from this company.
[48:11.270 --> 48:12.330]  I've noticed people getting thinner.
[48:12.650 --> 48:15.030]  It's pretty amazing, the immediate effects.
[48:15.190 --> 48:16.430]  Shall we take phone calls?
[48:16.430 --> 48:20.030]  Now that Bernie has joined us on the phone line, let's have some other people join us.
[48:20.170 --> 48:25.830]  Our phone number is 917-580-6020.
[48:26.370 --> 48:28.490]  It's 917-580-6020.
[48:28.830 --> 48:33.150]  And the reason that's our phone number is because everything is still messed up in downtown Manhattan.
[48:33.610 --> 48:36.090]  The Starbucks next door to us has been destroyed.
[48:36.090 --> 48:36.810]  It's gone.
[48:36.970 --> 48:37.890]  I don't think it's coming back.
[48:38.690 --> 48:41.730]  Yeah, I'll show you the boarded-up place later.
[48:42.990 --> 48:51.230]  And, you know, I was on the phone with 311, this nice city people, asking them what to do about parking my car because the muni-meter doesn't work.
[48:51.530 --> 48:58.890]  And I had to fill out a whole big report and make sure I don't get a ticket for parking in a place that has no way of paying for the parking.
[48:59.650 --> 49:05.470]  So, yeah, this whole part of downtown is going to be messed up for a while, which is why we're leaving.
[49:05.930 --> 49:07.570]  Yeah, BAI is going elsewhere.
[49:07.750 --> 49:09.650]  And it's going to be very interesting next few months.
[49:09.930 --> 49:16.490]  And I hope you come with us, listeners, because that's part of the history of this place, is change.
[49:16.490 --> 49:17.610]  And change can be very good.
[49:18.290 --> 49:20.510]  Let's see what's out there, see who's out there.
[49:20.730 --> 49:23.610]  Again, our phone number, 917-580-6020.
[49:24.530 --> 49:25.250]  And good evening.
[49:25.390 --> 49:26.410]  You are on Off the Hook.
[49:26.410 --> 49:29.290]  Hello, Tom from the Bronx here.
[49:29.470 --> 49:29.870]  How are you doing?
[49:30.290 --> 49:31.010]  You're phenomenal.
[49:31.390 --> 49:37.570]  I'd just like to say that I got it in my bill from AT&T.
[49:38.090 --> 49:40.790]  I had gotten a little like postcard.
[49:41.330 --> 49:50.330]  And it said something about we won't share your information with anybody unless you...
[49:50.330 --> 49:54.070]  Or we will share it unless you don't want us to share it.
[49:54.390 --> 49:55.550]  So you had to opt out?
[49:56.210 --> 49:57.390]  Yeah, but I didn't...
[49:57.390 --> 49:58.330]  I have nothing, too.
[49:58.490 --> 50:05.470]  I don't buy anything or anything online because I don't have a computer or anything.
[50:05.690 --> 50:06.090]  Uh-huh.
[50:06.490 --> 50:06.930]  So...
[50:06.930 --> 50:08.730]  That doesn't mean they won't share your information, though.
[50:09.070 --> 50:11.310]  Well, I don't have much information to share.
[50:11.950 --> 50:13.930]  Well, it won't take them long, then.
[50:14.270 --> 50:15.890]  Well, I don't know what...
[50:15.890 --> 50:20.730]  In other words, unless they're sneaking around when I'm going into the 99-cent stores.
[50:20.730 --> 50:21.310]  Uh-huh.
[50:21.390 --> 50:23.650]  Well, I mean, if you use a credit card, perhaps.
[50:23.790 --> 50:25.690]  But no, what they'll do...
[50:25.690 --> 50:27.290]  AT&T is your long-distance company?
[50:27.730 --> 50:28.130]  Yeah.
[50:28.370 --> 50:33.690]  Well, they'll share information on your calling habits, perhaps, or just simply your name and address.
[50:34.750 --> 50:35.150]  That's...
[50:35.150 --> 50:36.750]  Well, then they'll know why I call you, then.
[50:36.910 --> 50:37.910]  Well, yeah, that's...
[50:37.910 --> 50:41.190]  Well, no, you're probably not using AT&T to get here from the Bronx.
[50:41.710 --> 50:42.070]  Right.
[50:42.070 --> 50:42.930]  That would be a trick.
[50:45.030 --> 50:45.910]  But if...
[50:46.470 --> 50:51.930]  Your name and address really is the information that should be most prized.
[50:52.470 --> 50:57.210]  And what I like to do is I like to change my address very subtly for every company I do business with.
[50:57.250 --> 51:04.890]  That way, you know, if it's the same address as the one I gave to AT&T, well, then, they gave out my address to these people.
[51:04.950 --> 51:15.710]  They could just simply add, say, an A after your house number or something like that, or, say, department AT&T or something, and they'll just copy all that, and you'll see.
[51:15.930 --> 51:18.390]  Well, in other words, they know anywhere where I am, right?
[51:18.610 --> 51:19.030]  Because they...
[51:19.030 --> 51:19.750]  They do, yes.
[51:19.970 --> 51:20.690]  They do.
[51:21.290 --> 51:26.290]  So, in other words, I don't buy anything big.
[51:26.530 --> 51:27.030]  Uh-huh.
[51:27.110 --> 51:30.630]  So, I imagine there isn't much to share.
[51:31.390 --> 51:40.090]  Well, you know, a lot of people think that they're insignificant, that they've got nothing to hide, so it's not a threat to them, but it is.
[51:40.190 --> 51:43.450]  It's because your privacy is priceless.
[51:43.790 --> 51:50.490]  There is no price you should be able to pay to violate anyone's privacy and learn everything there is about them.
[51:51.050 --> 52:04.490]  And the more you do, and the less you refuse to allow your information to be out there, the more it'll become the default that we have no privacy.
[52:05.430 --> 52:07.330]  And everyone has privacy.
[52:07.890 --> 52:08.490]  Terrible.
[52:09.250 --> 52:09.570]  Yes.
[52:09.930 --> 52:11.230]  All right, well, listen, good luck to you, all right?
[52:11.650 --> 52:12.510]  Oh, okay.
[52:12.690 --> 52:13.950]  Thanks for taking the call.
[52:14.110 --> 52:15.050]  Okay, let's take another call.
[52:15.930 --> 52:16.550]  Hey, good evening.
[52:16.710 --> 52:17.670]  You are on off the hook.
[52:18.830 --> 52:19.590]  All right, well, listen.
[52:19.610 --> 52:20.170]  Speak up, please.
[52:21.050 --> 52:21.650]  Yes, hello?
[52:21.790 --> 52:22.730]  Yes, come back to the phone.
[52:24.350 --> 52:29.490]  Yes, I had a question in reference of arriving to Fios.
[52:29.690 --> 52:30.150]  Okay, go ahead.
[52:30.150 --> 52:36.710]  If you go from a Coppa line to a Fios line, you can't go backwards?
[52:37.990 --> 52:38.430]  Yes.
[52:38.670 --> 52:39.190]  That's true.
[52:39.650 --> 52:40.250]  Is that true?
[52:40.330 --> 52:41.050]  I never heard that one.
[52:41.670 --> 52:41.890]  Yep.
[52:41.990 --> 52:42.370]  You can't.
[52:42.450 --> 52:44.190]  They won't let you go back to Coppa after that.
[52:44.290 --> 52:45.110]  It's a one-way street.
[52:45.350 --> 52:47.310]  Well, what if you move out and somebody else moves in?
[52:48.710 --> 52:50.330]  Well, then it's not the same customer.
[52:50.690 --> 52:53.730]  Okay, so you basically, you got to change your name or something.
[52:54.050 --> 52:55.710]  And that's the way around it.
[52:56.370 --> 52:58.270]  Oh, okay, so you got to change your name.
[52:58.590 --> 52:59.610]  That's probably what it is.
[52:59.670 --> 53:00.890]  It's probably pretty simple.
[53:01.030 --> 53:03.330]  But let me ask, why do you want to go back to Coppa?
[53:04.430 --> 53:05.110]  No, no, no.
[53:05.130 --> 53:10.130]  I just wanted to add an extra line, but it would have just been a Coppa line, you know?
[53:10.310 --> 53:12.030]  A different company, for example.
[53:12.270 --> 53:13.410]  In case of emergency, you know?
[53:14.130 --> 53:14.490]  Right.
[53:15.630 --> 53:19.910]  Because with the Fios, if the power goes out, then you don't have no phone service.
[53:20.010 --> 53:25.010]  Yeah, that always struck me as a big disadvantage, especially after things like Sandy.
[53:26.150 --> 53:26.570]  Go ahead.
[53:26.830 --> 53:30.530]  I would be more for satellite phones in those situations.
[53:30.790 --> 53:32.190]  Uh-huh, well, those can be pretty pricey.
[53:32.350 --> 53:35.310]  Well, emergencies, you know, if you're really into emergency preparedness.
[53:35.570 --> 53:36.970]  You can't see the sky from Manhattan.
[53:37.630 --> 53:38.930]  You can see a lot of it, actually.
[53:39.270 --> 53:39.730]  You're surprised.
[53:39.950 --> 53:40.090]  Good evening.
[53:40.310 --> 53:40.590]  You have to see the sky?
[53:40.790 --> 53:41.690]  You're on off the hook.
[53:41.710 --> 53:42.030]  Go ahead.
[53:43.310 --> 53:43.670]  Hi.
[53:43.990 --> 53:44.290]  Hi.
[53:44.810 --> 53:52.950]  I know this is not really a topic you guys were on, but I didn't know that they had actually decided that they were moving the station.
[53:53.490 --> 53:54.770]  When did that happen?
[53:56.150 --> 53:57.470]  There is talk.
[53:57.470 --> 53:58.670]  That's all I can say right now.
[53:58.670 --> 54:01.570]  I don't know how much is actually out there.
[54:01.570 --> 54:03.050]  I've heard it mentioned on the air a few times.
[54:03.650 --> 54:08.410]  But the rent in this building is extremely expensive.
[54:08.610 --> 54:11.250]  We need to cut back in many ways.
[54:11.590 --> 54:12.930]  We need better facilities.
[54:18.610 --> 54:21.530]  And, sorry, was that you or was that a horn?
[54:22.170 --> 54:24.390]  No, it was somebody vibrating my phone.
[54:24.490 --> 54:25.170]  It sounds like a duck.
[54:25.170 --> 54:25.610]  I'm sorry.
[54:26.070 --> 54:26.330]  All right.
[54:26.370 --> 54:27.670]  Well, it's the last thing we need to hear, Bernie.
[54:28.930 --> 54:37.110]  So, yeah, it's basically we're putting our money where our mouth is, I guess, is one way to say it, even though we're actually not putting money where our mouth is.
[54:37.210 --> 54:42.110]  We're trying to save money and just serve our listeners, continue to serve our listeners.
[54:42.270 --> 54:43.690]  Could you start that analogy again, please?
[54:43.730 --> 54:44.570]  No, I'm not even going to try.
[54:44.670 --> 54:46.230]  You've got a real thing about my analogies tonight.
[54:46.810 --> 54:48.290]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[54:48.370 --> 54:48.570]  Good evening.
[54:48.710 --> 54:49.530]  You're on Off the Hook.
[54:50.650 --> 54:51.530]  Hey, good evening.
[54:51.910 --> 54:56.010]  Yeah, I was wondering, do you know if the Congress in Hamburg is running video feeds again this year?
[54:56.330 --> 54:56.710]  Yes.
[54:57.030 --> 54:57.810]  The video feeds are always fantastic.
[54:58.590 --> 55:01.250]  Is it events with an S or events without an S?
[55:01.510 --> 55:02.830]  I think there is an S.
[55:02.950 --> 55:04.990]  Events.ccc.de.
[55:06.170 --> 55:16.130]  Okay, because I've been sort of digging around there, and I've heard mentioned that they're taking angels again, supporting everyone to get questions in, but I haven't seen anything linked for the videos yet.
[55:16.130 --> 55:19.150]  Yeah, you know, that was really cool at the camp last time.
[55:19.350 --> 55:24.030]  They were taking questions from all around the world to talks that were going on, and I think that's really...
[55:24.030 --> 55:26.750]  I was in charge of one of them, in fact, where I had to monitor IRC.
[55:27.070 --> 55:27.310]  Yeah.
[55:27.430 --> 55:30.270]  It was pretty cool, but they do that, and I do a good job of it, too.
[55:30.270 --> 55:32.230]  So events.ccc.de.
[55:32.470 --> 55:36.090]  Sometimes the best questions, actually, come from people who aren't actually in the room.
[55:36.350 --> 55:47.390]  And by the way, the wiki, because once you get to events.ccc.de, there's also the wiki that sometimes has additional information, but for sure, once it starts, right on the first page of events.ccc, they'll talk about...
[55:47.390 --> 55:49.530]  Let's try and take one more phone call.
[55:49.670 --> 55:50.050]  Good evening.
[55:50.190 --> 55:51.030]  You're on Off the Hook.
[55:51.730 --> 55:52.130]  Hello.
[55:52.430 --> 55:52.570]  Hi.
[56:02.130 --> 56:06.330]  And I looked some stuff up about it, but there didn't really seem to be anything credible.
[56:06.650 --> 56:06.890]  Quickly.
[56:07.430 --> 56:09.950]  Which is this notion of levels of the internet.
[56:10.850 --> 56:11.990]  Levels of the internet?
[56:12.290 --> 56:15.090]  There's a company called Level 3, but they're just a company.
[56:15.150 --> 56:15.950]  Yeah, I don't think that's it.
[56:16.530 --> 56:24.930]  This whole notion of levels of the internet, that we're basically operating on sort of a superficial, commercial, you know, level zero.
[56:25.670 --> 56:29.470]  Oh, you're talking about the Balkanization of the internet.
[56:30.270 --> 56:39.550]  Yeah, I think that's what he means, and we don't have time to get into it now, but we certainly will in the future, because I think that is the future, unfortunately.
[56:40.510 --> 56:41.330]  Folks, we're out of time.
[56:41.530 --> 56:45.810]  Our email address, OTH at 2600.com, 2600 meetings this Friday.
[56:46.070 --> 56:47.210]  Maybe we'll see you at some of those.
[56:48.130 --> 56:52.830]  And don't forget to watch CCC, events.ccc.de from Hamburg.
[56:52.850 --> 56:53.570]  We'll see you next week.
[56:53.690 --> 56:53.810]  Good night.
[57:18.900 --> 57:20.780]  Sorry, there are not 2600 meetings this Friday.
[57:21.000 --> 57:23.460]  It's the Friday after that, so don't go there.
[58:03.700 --> 58:05.200]  We'll see you next week.
[59:58.300 --> 59:59.700]  Yeah!
[01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:03.980]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:14.260]  Oh boy, it's 8 o'clock at WBAI, December 26, 2012.