[00:00.000 --> 00:04.580]  The State Office Building is located at 163 125th Street.
[00:04.820 --> 00:07.020]  For more information, RSVP.
[00:07.200 --> 00:16.440]  Call 212-862-7200 or visit harlemhealthyliving.com slash urbanhealth.
[00:18.840 --> 00:26.360]  Hi, this is Alec Baldwin, and you're tuned to WBAI, listener-supported, non-commercial radio in New York.
[00:26.360 --> 00:27.740]  Anything can happen.
[00:28.180 --> 00:32.680]  Support WBAI, peace and justice radio in New York.
[00:32.980 --> 00:34.000]  Anything can happen.
[00:35.000 --> 00:36.160]  Anything might happen.
[00:36.160 --> 00:37.040]  It's 7 o'clock.
[00:37.040 --> 00:39.080]  You are listening to WBAI New York.
[00:39.280 --> 00:42.740]  And that means it's time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[02:10.870 --> 02:13.310]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:13.310 --> 02:15.090]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:15.170 --> 02:20.290]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Mike.
[02:20.570 --> 02:20.990]  Good evening.
[02:22.290 --> 02:24.630]  It just gets smaller and smaller in here, doesn't it?
[02:25.610 --> 02:28.370]  I received a message from Rob T.
[02:28.490 --> 02:30.610]  Firefly that he is delayed due to Subway.
[02:31.170 --> 02:33.730]  Yeah, you know, that's delayed due to catching the Subway late.
[02:34.030 --> 02:35.230]  That's what happens.
[02:35.330 --> 02:37.950]  One thing I've noticed coming up here is that there's always a Subway.
[02:38.110 --> 02:39.470]  But you've got to plan for it.
[02:39.550 --> 02:41.370]  There's a lot of travel.
[02:42.770 --> 02:44.050]  That's been my experience anyway.
[02:44.230 --> 02:46.530]  But hopefully he'll show up before the program ends.
[02:47.310 --> 02:47.990]  Bernie S.
[02:48.250 --> 02:49.590]  is on the telephone.
[02:50.270 --> 02:53.290]  It's his newfangled technology, and I am on from Pennsylvania.
[02:53.470 --> 02:53.690]  Greetings.
[02:54.010 --> 02:54.250]  Wow.
[02:54.450 --> 03:00.770]  Well, the fact that I said he's on the telephone is actually a monumental occasion here because we have phones again.
[03:00.790 --> 03:02.010]  We have a phone, at least.
[03:02.430 --> 03:09.490]  And that means we are going to be, one way or another, taking phone calls later on, or taking a phone call later on.
[03:09.870 --> 03:14.530]  We're not sure yet if we can have Bernie on at the same time as we take phone calls.
[03:14.530 --> 03:17.710]  We're going to try, but if not, Bernie, are you willing to sacrifice yourself?
[03:17.930 --> 03:18.330]  No problem.
[03:18.450 --> 03:20.170]  I can say goodbye whenever needed.
[03:20.350 --> 03:20.470]  Thank you.
[03:20.730 --> 03:23.530]  I see through the closed-circuit camera that Rob T.
[03:23.670 --> 03:26.890]  Firefly, somebody who looks like him, has just forced his way through the door.
[03:28.330 --> 03:28.830]  I'm sorry.
[03:29.090 --> 03:31.030]  So most of our listeners are not in the studio.
[03:31.030 --> 03:34.270]  We have 16 things going on on that screen.
[03:34.410 --> 03:35.670]  It's very busy-ing.
[03:36.090 --> 03:36.350]  Yeah.
[03:36.910 --> 03:37.270]  Funny.
[03:37.270 --> 03:38.050]  I thought that was him.
[03:38.090 --> 03:38.730]  It looked like him.
[03:39.130 --> 03:39.490]  Somebody.
[03:39.710 --> 03:42.550]  If it is him, it could be anywhere in the range.
[03:42.550 --> 03:43.670]  Well, the studios aren't that big.
[03:43.730 --> 03:44.730]  He should have made it here by now.
[03:44.890 --> 03:46.390]  But maybe there was somebody else.
[03:46.490 --> 03:48.250]  But I didn't see them show up on any other camera.
[03:48.530 --> 03:50.830]  You have 16 cameras, but one telephone line?
[03:51.530 --> 03:52.250]  Actually, two.
[03:52.410 --> 03:53.230]  Two telephone lines.
[03:55.050 --> 03:55.410]  Yeah.
[03:55.410 --> 03:55.770]  So...
[03:56.790 --> 03:58.310]  Yeah, I've had a very frustrating day.
[03:58.390 --> 03:59.010]  I've been trying.
[03:59.490 --> 04:01.670]  I feel we need to update the listeners on this.
[04:02.010 --> 04:03.550]  We have some premium issues.
[04:04.490 --> 04:06.270]  We've been trying to deliver premiums.
[04:06.310 --> 04:09.390]  I literally spent the whole day trying to deliver premiums downtown.
[04:10.210 --> 04:13.590]  In case you haven't heard, the station is in two different places at the same time.
[04:13.730 --> 04:17.490]  We're up here at City College in Harlem broadcasting.
[04:17.630 --> 04:22.770]  But our offices are at Ford Financial Plaza Center, World Center.
[04:22.930 --> 04:23.190]  I don't know.
[04:23.270 --> 04:24.110]  It's a crazy building.
[04:24.470 --> 04:25.150]  Somewhere downtown.
[04:25.470 --> 04:29.130]  You ask for directions to it on Google Maps, and they give you directions to a different address.
[04:29.530 --> 04:29.970]  And just...
[04:29.970 --> 04:33.250]  They basically replace four with two, and you're supposed to accept that.
[04:33.390 --> 04:34.390]  So I did.
[04:34.490 --> 04:37.770]  You know, I accepted that, and I was calling them all day long.
[04:37.770 --> 04:42.230]  The number that I got just went to a voicemail, because we're not allowed to have actual telephones up there.
[04:42.710 --> 04:44.050]  A great deal we worked out.
[04:44.150 --> 04:47.230]  Well, you can't have telephones, so everything goes to a cell phone, apparently.
[04:47.430 --> 04:52.730]  And I couldn't get anybody to call back, so I was trying all day to reach people with these premiums.
[04:52.770 --> 05:02.610]  And these premiums include, by the way, calendars for 2013 that really we should have gotten to you guys a couple of months ago, because that's what calendars are for.
[05:03.350 --> 05:05.990]  Now, of course, we had a lot of extenuating circumstances.
[05:06.170 --> 05:09.330]  Since people pledged for these calendars, we had Hurricane Sandy move in.
[05:09.770 --> 05:14.910]  We moved out of Wall Street, came up here, split the station into two pieces at least.
[05:15.570 --> 05:18.130]  And all kinds of other challenges have taken place.
[05:18.410 --> 05:21.510]  Another challenge was getting everybody to sign the calendar, getting everybody in one place.
[05:21.510 --> 05:25.190]  So it was kind of on us, kind of on the station, kind of on Mother Nature.
[05:25.590 --> 05:28.150]  All of that together resulted in a delay.
[05:28.270 --> 05:33.130]  But today I was hoping to actually drop the things off, and I couldn't even make it upstairs.
[05:33.590 --> 05:34.690]  I found the building.
[05:34.930 --> 05:37.950]  I put my car in a taxi stand.
[05:38.250 --> 05:40.790]  Came within one minute of being towed, I was told.
[05:41.350 --> 05:43.950]  But that was the only way to get all the premiums over there.
[05:43.950 --> 05:45.730]  And I couldn't reach anybody on the phone.
[05:45.930 --> 05:46.630]  Ran into the building.
[05:46.750 --> 05:49.250]  Ran through a food court.
[05:49.270 --> 05:51.970]  Then up this escalator behind slow-moving people.
[05:52.170 --> 05:58.110]  Finally to a guard that was basically preventing people from getting through to the building.
[05:58.150 --> 06:01.170]  And I said, can you contact somebody up on the 26th floor?
[06:02.010 --> 06:04.290]  And no, they're not allowed to do that.
[06:04.390 --> 06:06.130]  Or they're unable to do that.
[06:06.290 --> 06:10.350]  Can't contact anybody in the building, or at least can't contact us in the building.
[06:10.670 --> 06:12.210]  Couldn't reach anybody in the building.
[06:12.670 --> 06:14.010]  Couldn't be let into the building.
[06:14.190 --> 06:15.790]  And I couldn't leave a package at the building.
[06:15.910 --> 06:17.450]  You know, I was asking this guy, what are you for?
[06:17.550 --> 06:19.330]  What is your purpose except to say no?
[06:20.430 --> 06:21.650]  So, I'm sorry folks.
[06:21.790 --> 06:24.570]  I tried as hard as I could to get premiums dropped off today.
[06:24.590 --> 06:25.210]  I really did.
[06:25.350 --> 06:29.130]  It took me all day because I had to come all the way in from the island to attempt this.
[06:29.690 --> 06:34.230]  And I still have not gotten an answer from anybody here as to what I'm supposed to do.
[06:34.370 --> 06:35.290]  Now that's one.
[06:35.550 --> 06:36.750]  One set of premiums.
[06:36.750 --> 06:40.750]  Those are the calendars and anything that's associated with the calendars from the October drive.
[06:41.350 --> 06:42.650]  I believe it's the October drive.
[06:43.230 --> 06:47.250]  There was another drive involving artwork from Rob T.
[06:47.370 --> 06:48.750]  Firefly, who has just walked in the studio.
[06:48.750 --> 06:49.190]  Welcome.
[06:49.550 --> 06:49.750]  Hello.
[06:50.170 --> 06:51.130]  How are the subways today?
[06:51.490 --> 06:52.510]  Oh, they're very sub.
[06:52.710 --> 06:52.930]  Yeah.
[06:54.270 --> 06:56.250]  We had your artwork.
[06:56.250 --> 06:57.710]  We had Kyle's pictures.
[06:58.710 --> 07:00.390]  Kyle being back in Seattle now, by the way.
[07:01.170 --> 07:04.510]  And we also had a hacker art book.
[07:04.690 --> 07:09.370]  And the reason this one is delayed is that the hacker art book has... it's just being published now.
[07:09.490 --> 07:10.030]  Is that right, Bernie?
[07:10.170 --> 07:10.570]  That's correct.
[07:10.690 --> 07:10.890]  Okay.
[07:11.070 --> 07:16.510]  I spoke with Andrew Zahn, the author or creator of this amazing art book.
[07:16.550 --> 07:20.650]  And he said it's going to press in the next... by the end of this month.
[07:20.770 --> 07:22.150]  So, like, next week it's going to press.
[07:22.150 --> 07:23.950]  So, that delay is on us.
[07:24.050 --> 07:30.850]  That's because we basically were pledging or pitching for a book that had not yet been published, but we were assured it was going to be published soon.
[07:30.970 --> 07:31.850]  It is being published.
[07:32.050 --> 07:36.230]  That will go out as soon as we get it, as soon as we figure out how to deliver the premiums.
[07:36.450 --> 07:42.050]  And finally, the other premiums people might be waiting for are lockpicking kits that we promised way back.
[07:42.050 --> 07:43.230]  I think this was in May.
[07:43.770 --> 07:47.690]  We actually laid out some significant cash for this so listeners could get it.
[07:47.690 --> 07:49.670]  We have not yet received it from the tool people.
[07:50.350 --> 07:52.570]  Bernie, I believe you were going to contact them.
[07:52.590 --> 07:53.170]  Have you done that yet?
[07:53.710 --> 07:56.490]  I thought I'd ask you if you wanted me to, but if you want me to, I will.
[07:56.630 --> 07:57.830]  I would love you to.
[07:57.910 --> 07:58.390]  That would be great.
[07:58.690 --> 08:01.770]  Yeah, I'll be happy to ping them and say, you know, what's up?
[08:02.350 --> 08:07.390]  Send me the details on what it is you're looking for so I know what to ask them about.
[08:08.050 --> 08:08.510]  Well, okay.
[08:09.830 --> 08:14.410]  We all basically are involved in the same show, but I'll send you a reminder about that.
[08:14.610 --> 08:15.870]  So, folks, that's everything.
[08:17.430 --> 08:22.250]  We basically are accountable for all the premiums that we promised people, and we don't forget.
[08:22.430 --> 08:28.670]  We don't forgive either, but we don't forget, and we will make sure everybody gets what it is that they pledged for.
[08:29.470 --> 08:38.050]  All that said, I do have to, again, go on the record as saying that WBAI is constantly in need of listener support.
[08:38.790 --> 08:41.530]  We have all kinds of challenges and issues.
[08:41.770 --> 08:43.610]  Least of all is communication.
[08:43.870 --> 08:46.130]  Well, not least of all, it's communication amongst ourselves.
[08:46.770 --> 08:58.810]  But just the fact that we're able to talk, frankly, about all of this and let people know where our failings are, that's something that is worthy of support, and hopefully we'll be able to do that for quite some time.
[08:58.810 --> 09:00.610]  There was an outage this morning.
[09:00.610 --> 09:03.090]  If people were listening, then they heard dead air.
[09:03.810 --> 09:09.150]  Well, it was because there was some kind of a disagreement with Verizon, is what I'm told.
[09:09.290 --> 09:11.270]  Now, I don't know the details.
[09:11.530 --> 09:13.410]  I'm not going to try and figure it all out.
[09:13.410 --> 09:22.930]  But it does illustrate the point that these entities, whether it's the Empire State Building with the transmitter or whether it's Verizon with the phone lines, they have the final say.
[09:22.930 --> 09:32.990]  If they don't like something that we're doing, such as not paying the bill, if there's a bill that went unpaid because we didn't have enough money or something like that, they have the ability to simply cut us off.
[09:33.050 --> 09:41.450]  So that's an illustration of what can happen, what will happen, if we don't make enough to get there.
[09:41.450 --> 09:44.490]  The number is 516-620-3602.
[09:44.670 --> 09:51.530]  In this particular case, I can guarantee you that you will get your premium because the only premium we're offering is our continued broadcasting.
[09:51.530 --> 09:55.250]  And as long as we're around, as long as the station is here, we are going to do just that.
[09:55.270 --> 09:59.730]  We're going to put every bit of effort into maintaining the signal and keeping the transmitter going.
[09:59.810 --> 10:01.650]  516-620-3602.
[10:02.430 --> 10:03.850]  Yeah, there are problems.
[10:04.050 --> 10:08.310]  There are all kinds of dysfunctional things that you might hear about and hear for yourself on the radio.
[10:08.310 --> 10:17.710]  But, you know, coming up here, speaking of subways, Rob, I was at the 14th Street IRT subway platform, and the number one was sitting there.
[10:17.850 --> 10:20.490]  It was sitting there for a bunch of minutes waiting for the number two express.
[10:21.890 --> 10:30.530]  And one of those signs, you know those nice new signs that tell you how long it is for the train to show up, said the number two train heading up to, what, 242nd Street in five minutes.
[10:31.210 --> 10:35.750]  And one minute later, the train arrives, even though it says it's still going to be another four minutes.
[10:36.330 --> 10:42.190]  And just as it's pulling in, the number one train, which has been waiting for, I'm told, at least five minutes, pulls away.
[10:42.470 --> 10:45.690]  So, the MTA is dysfunctional, too.
[10:45.850 --> 10:47.330]  But we all still love it.
[10:47.370 --> 10:48.510]  We all still support it.
[10:48.630 --> 10:51.730]  And, well, WBAI is kind of like that, I guess.
[10:52.050 --> 10:54.610]  It's the one train that goes to 242nd Street.
[10:54.810 --> 10:55.990]  Thanks for the clarification, Mike.
[10:56.030 --> 10:57.950]  Where does the number two train go?
[10:58.030 --> 10:58.570]  Dyer Avenue?
[10:58.670 --> 10:58.950]  Is that it?
[10:59.010 --> 10:59.610]  Or is that number five?
[10:59.650 --> 11:00.090]  I don't know.
[11:00.090 --> 11:00.790]  Somewhere up there.
[11:00.950 --> 11:01.630]  Somewhere in the Bronx.
[11:01.730 --> 11:02.870]  Not Van Cortland Park.
[11:02.870 --> 11:04.770]  I'm going to be up all night trying to figure that out.
[11:05.730 --> 11:08.670]  So, again, phone number 516-620-3602.
[11:08.770 --> 11:09.670]  Please, people call in.
[11:09.810 --> 11:14.990]  And it's an emergency transmitter drive that we are in the middle of.
[11:15.430 --> 11:17.270]  We have to raise a certain amount by the end of the month.
[11:17.290 --> 11:18.310]  I'm not sure how far.
[11:18.470 --> 11:19.370]  I know we've gotten a lot.
[11:19.430 --> 11:21.750]  I think we're past the halfway point, which is great.
[11:22.270 --> 11:25.870]  But if we don't make the whole thing, we could be in a lot of trouble.
[11:25.950 --> 11:29.070]  Or we could have no airwave to broadcast over.
[11:30.410 --> 11:31.110]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[11:31.110 --> 11:42.650]  I also wanted to point out that listeners, if they don't want to call or go online, they can send a check or money order to WBAI Church Street Station at P.O.
[11:42.650 --> 11:48.710]  Box 7032, New York, New York, 10008.
[11:50.890 --> 11:53.990]  There's sometimes there's issues of website and telephones, as we know.
[11:54.150 --> 11:57.090]  But you can mail just like, you know, good old days.
[11:57.270 --> 11:58.070]  Check or money order.
[11:58.250 --> 11:58.990]  Yes, absolutely.
[11:59.590 --> 12:02.450]  You can even try and come by with cash in hand.
[12:03.410 --> 12:04.930]  I'm not sure how much luck you'll get.
[12:05.030 --> 12:06.990]  I couldn't even get into the facility today myself.
[12:07.910 --> 12:09.850]  But please spread the word, too.
[12:09.950 --> 12:15.390]  And it's unlike the other fund drives we have where we say we can only offer this premium for this particular hour.
[12:15.970 --> 12:17.190]  Not the case here.
[12:17.430 --> 12:19.230]  We can offer this around the clock.
[12:19.390 --> 12:21.890]  You can call anytime, 516-620-3602.
[12:22.090 --> 12:24.150]  And pledge for the transmitter fund.
[12:24.150 --> 12:25.550]  And every bit counts.
[12:25.770 --> 12:27.530]  And thank you to all the people who have called in so far.
[12:27.570 --> 12:29.270]  And we hope that more people call in.
[12:29.610 --> 12:31.350]  And we don't have to worry about this.
[12:31.530 --> 12:32.210]  And we...
[12:32.210 --> 12:34.190]  Better times hopefully will be ahead.
[12:34.570 --> 12:35.470]  Right now we're homeless.
[12:35.770 --> 12:39.410]  We're being put up by the kind folks here at City College.
[12:40.290 --> 12:48.410]  But one day we hope to have our own building so that we never have to worry about this again so that we don't have huge amounts of rent to pay.
[12:48.650 --> 12:52.010]  And so that we can just basically make a place our own.
[12:52.130 --> 12:53.190]  That would be kind of cool, wouldn't it?
[12:53.470 --> 12:54.350]  That would be very cool.
[12:54.590 --> 12:55.530]  And it does happen.
[12:55.750 --> 12:57.070]  Other stations have done this.
[12:57.350 --> 13:00.290]  And it's something that we hope to be able to do ourselves.
[13:00.430 --> 13:01.590]  Other Pacifica stations have done it.
[13:01.650 --> 13:01.930]  Yes, Bernie.
[13:02.130 --> 13:02.790]  I just want to point out.
[13:02.890 --> 13:03.610]  This is really...
[13:03.610 --> 13:07.730]  I know it sounds like we're crying wolf with this sometimes because we're asking for money so often.
[13:07.870 --> 13:11.010]  But this is really a critical moment for the AI.
[13:11.010 --> 13:25.430]  If it doesn't get this transmitter rent payment, it's not renting the transmitter, it's renting a space for the transmitter on the 58th floor of the Empire State Building that connects to this massive phased antenna that you can see on top of the building there.
[13:25.570 --> 13:34.070]  If this rent doesn't get paid promptly, like it's a court order, has to be paid by a certain day, at the end of this month and the next few weeks there's got to be other payments.
[13:34.130 --> 13:37.810]  If that doesn't happen, it's not negotiable at that point.
[13:37.970 --> 13:39.550]  Then it gets shut off.
[13:39.710 --> 13:40.050]  That's it.
[13:40.050 --> 13:44.610]  And other stations would be very happy to take that slot in that building.
[13:44.770 --> 13:50.550]  There's very limited real estate for connecting to this big master FM antenna on top of the Empire State Building.
[13:50.710 --> 13:51.510]  This is a big deal.
[13:51.710 --> 13:57.810]  If the AI doesn't get the money it needs to pay this rent for the transmitter space, it's all over.
[13:57.910 --> 14:00.950]  It is the most expensive room in the city, I think.
[14:01.410 --> 14:10.970]  What people have to pay, what stations have to pay for transmitting, $50,000 plus a month to have that room that you need to transmit, correct?
[14:11.330 --> 14:11.610]  Yep.
[14:11.970 --> 14:15.790]  There's a bunch of other stations up there, too, and they're connected to this big master...
[14:15.790 --> 14:22.970]  There's one antenna, one big master FM antenna on top of the Empire State Building, and they're all phased together to different transmitters.
[14:23.090 --> 14:23.790]  It's really impressive.
[14:23.910 --> 14:32.630]  You can look up master FM antenna on the Empire State Building online, and it really can see pictures of the transmitters and all the RF plumbing.
[14:32.830 --> 14:33.430]  It's fascinating.
[14:33.590 --> 14:34.570]  Well, what's impressive...
[14:34.570 --> 14:35.510]  I'm going to be devil's advocate here.
[14:35.690 --> 14:39.430]  What's impressive to me is how much money they're able to make from this.
[14:40.030 --> 14:46.090]  Imagine $50,000 a month from every single radio station and television station in the city.
[14:46.170 --> 14:46.630]  It's incredible.
[14:47.130 --> 15:00.130]  But, okay, so thinking creatively here, would it not be possible for us to simply rent an office somewhere in the Empire State Building for much less than $50,000 a month and put all of our transmitting gear there and simply run a wire up the staircase to the antenna?
[15:00.410 --> 15:00.710]  Nope.
[15:00.950 --> 15:01.390]  Why not?
[15:01.730 --> 15:06.290]  Well, it has to do with... you can't just run a wire.
[15:07.090 --> 15:19.910]  When you're talking about as much power as this transmitter is, it's got to be a very short feed line, and the way these antennas are connected together, they have to be the transmitters... all these transmitters are so close... they have to be close to the antenna.
[15:20.550 --> 15:22.450]  So there's just... and it's just the arrangement they offer.
[15:22.610 --> 15:25.410]  They're not going to let you try some other alternative.
[15:25.410 --> 15:33.230]  The transmitters have to be, like, right where all the RF plumbing is that goes to the base of this combiner that goes to this master FM antenna.
[15:33.810 --> 15:35.510]  And there's just really no other options.
[15:35.850 --> 15:36.470]  All right, all right.
[15:36.490 --> 15:36.990]  How about then...
[15:36.990 --> 15:39.450]  Okay, I have a friend in Co-op City in the Bronx, all right?
[15:39.550 --> 15:41.110]  And he has access to the roof.
[15:41.250 --> 15:44.730]  Now, if I could stick an antenna up there, he could plug it in in his bedroom.
[15:44.970 --> 15:45.170]  Yep.
[15:45.390 --> 15:45.950]  How about that?
[15:46.150 --> 15:48.170]  That would work for a very short distance.
[15:48.550 --> 15:50.650]  Nobody would... not very many people would hear it.
[15:50.650 --> 15:56.930]  And first, you'd have to... you'd have to supply all these engineering studies to the FCC, which would take, like, many months.
[15:57.870 --> 16:08.270]  And you'd have to lower the power, because if you put a transmitter as powerful as WBAI's down on the ground level closer, it would interfere with all kinds of other stuff.
[16:08.430 --> 16:18.390]  So you'd have to pay for, like, a huge amount of money for engineering studies, get that to the FCC, wait months, and there's lawyers involved, and it really wouldn't be effective anyway, because you wouldn't get nearly the reins.
[16:18.510 --> 16:23.570]  The single highest point in the New York metropolitan area is the Empire State Building.
[16:23.810 --> 16:25.350]  Well, now it's the World Trade Center.
[16:25.590 --> 16:31.790]  Well, yeah, and there are going to be transmitters, antennas up on that, too, but it's not set up yet.
[16:32.390 --> 16:35.870]  And it's probably even more expensive than $50,000 a month.
[16:36.110 --> 16:37.530]  You're being kind of negative here, Bernie.
[16:37.670 --> 16:40.250]  I'm trying to come up with alternatives, and you're just shooting them all down.
[16:40.410 --> 16:41.570]  I have another one.
[16:41.570 --> 16:42.210]  I have another one for you.
[16:42.210 --> 16:44.910]  How about if we just move the transmitter to New Jersey or something?
[16:45.830 --> 16:48.430]  Well, there's no building anywhere nearly as high, and you still have to get the FBA.
[16:48.430 --> 16:48.870]  You see what he does?
[16:49.030 --> 16:51.590]  Every idea I come up with, he has a reason why it won't work.
[16:51.630 --> 16:57.650]  So you're saying the only thing we can possibly do is stay on top of the Empire State Building and pay $50,000 a month for the privilege.
[16:57.890 --> 17:05.390]  If WBA wants to have the range that it has, which is like 80-plus miles radius, yes, that's what it needs.
[17:05.530 --> 17:12.090]  And you'd have to, again, engineering studies are a big, expensive, and time-consuming thing that would have to be done to make any changes.
[17:12.290 --> 17:12.710]  All right, all right.
[17:12.850 --> 17:16.170]  One final suggestion here, and this is as positive as I can be.
[17:16.930 --> 17:18.430]  Nobody listens to the radio anymore.
[17:18.890 --> 17:23.250]  Why don't we just go internet only and accept that fact?
[17:24.410 --> 17:25.370]  You asking me?
[17:25.750 --> 17:27.390]  I want to see what you say, yes.
[17:27.630 --> 17:28.630]  I love radio.
[17:28.810 --> 17:30.130]  Radio is a magical medium.
[17:30.450 --> 17:31.490]  There's nothing like it.
[17:31.630 --> 17:42.510]  You could have millions of receivers, you know, within 100 miles of Manhattan, all picking up this station at the same time, and that's magical.
[17:42.750 --> 17:44.030]  Nobody knows you're listening to it.
[17:44.090 --> 17:45.090]  Nobody can cut it off.
[17:45.210 --> 17:46.370]  Well, if you don't pay the rent.
[17:46.370 --> 17:52.330]  You can't, like, you know, there's no, like, IP blocking, and it's a magical medium.
[17:52.530 --> 18:05.010]  And there's nothing like having a listener-supported station in the middle of the FM broadcast, commercial FM broadcast band, in the biggest radio market in the country, New York City.
[18:06.530 --> 18:08.330]  It's just not replaceable.
[18:08.470 --> 18:10.130]  There's nothing that's going to come close to that.
[18:10.330 --> 18:14.470]  I mean, yes, BAI has an online stream as well, which is also important.
[18:14.470 --> 18:17.270]  But you can't replace a radio signal.
[18:17.490 --> 18:18.670]  It's just important.
[18:18.970 --> 18:20.230]  Well, I agree with that.
[18:20.450 --> 18:28.470]  But, you know, every day I'm hit with barrages of feedback from people saying that they don't listen to the radio anymore.
[18:28.470 --> 18:29.650]  They only listen online.
[18:29.850 --> 18:31.790]  And I wonder, how true is that?
[18:31.910 --> 18:34.170]  Let me ask you, is there a radio in the room that you're in right now?
[18:34.690 --> 18:35.330]  There is.
[18:35.430 --> 18:35.990]  Okay, good.
[18:35.990 --> 18:37.210]  That makes me feel better.
[18:37.990 --> 18:39.350]  It's actually a special radio.
[18:39.530 --> 18:42.910]  It receives AM, FM, and IP.
[18:42.910 --> 18:45.750]  It has an internet radio built-in.
[18:45.890 --> 18:49.890]  It looks like an old-fashioned radio from the 1940s, but it does all that.
[18:50.010 --> 18:56.250]  And I can listen to WBA on it, even though I'm more than 100 miles away from WBAI.
[18:56.290 --> 18:58.490]  I can listen to it on its online stream.
[18:58.730 --> 18:59.810]  But you've got to have both.
[18:59.930 --> 19:00.470]  You really do.
[19:00.790 --> 19:07.030]  Well, I was listening to WBAI on the way into the city today before I started my all-day marathon of trying to get to WBAI.
[19:07.030 --> 19:10.170]  And the signal is great out on the island.
[19:10.170 --> 19:19.910]  I've listened deep into New Jersey, far upstate New York, and down almost towards where you are in Philadelphia until that other station from Delaware starts kicking in.
[19:20.150 --> 19:23.650]  But that is the magic of radio, that you can do that.
[19:24.010 --> 19:29.630]  And it's something that I hope people remember, that it's not just an online service.
[19:29.630 --> 19:32.130]  Yes, we're online as well on WBAI.org.
[19:32.150 --> 19:33.290]  You can listen to us there.
[19:33.410 --> 19:44.070]  But the reason that we're able to bring you the programs we do is because we're an actual radio station that still reaches people with old-fashioned radios in their cars, in their homes.
[19:44.390 --> 19:51.490]  And I think there's a difference, at least in this particular case, there is a difference between that and simply an online stream.
[19:51.590 --> 19:53.950]  There are some good online streams, no question about that.
[19:53.950 --> 20:00.690]  But the reason why we are so powerful and so full of diversity is because of that FM signal.
[20:00.830 --> 20:11.490]  And I think, you know, if you're going to ask yourself if radio is still relevant, ask yourself how much a radio station sells for in New York City, and you'll see that it's very relevant to many people.
[20:11.590 --> 20:15.650]  They would not sell them for tens of millions of dollars if nobody was listening.
[20:15.890 --> 20:18.110]  So please, keep all that in mind.
[20:18.230 --> 20:21.670]  Call us, 516-620-3602.
[20:21.670 --> 20:26.570]  Pledge whatever you can afford to keep WBAI's transmitter fund up to date.
[20:26.710 --> 20:29.910]  We needed to raise, I think, $500,000, and we're more than halfway there.
[20:30.570 --> 20:36.990]  And we only have a few days left before we have to pay off a lot of people to keep the signal going.
[20:37.930 --> 20:38.550]  Yes, indeed.
[20:38.670 --> 20:43.310]  And it's also worth noting that the radio is just very important for reasons of dependability.
[20:43.570 --> 20:51.330]  When the power went out during the hurricane, not everybody could start up something like a computer and catch an IP stream and decode it to an audio signal.
[20:51.330 --> 20:59.050]  But you could still pop a WBA battery into a cheap radio off the shelf and hear what was going on in the city and get your emergency instructions and things like that.
[20:59.270 --> 21:06.030]  So it's very important that you call 516-620-3602 and help keep us on the air as a radio station.
[21:06.330 --> 21:13.010]  Because if that were lost, as the guys have said, this is very prime broadcasting real estate that we are paying for here.
[21:13.130 --> 21:18.070]  And there are lines of entities that would love to swoop in and take over should we lose it.
[21:18.070 --> 21:22.350]  But this isn't like getting the power turned off in your house where if you just pay the bill, they'll switch it back on.
[21:22.530 --> 21:25.450]  If we lose this, there's a very good chance we've lost it for good.
[21:25.850 --> 21:27.510]  So, yep, keep us on the air.
[21:27.810 --> 21:37.110]  And you hear stories all the time about non-commercial stations that are basically sold by universities or other entities because they're not able to meet the payments.
[21:37.110 --> 21:42.850]  And organizations like NPR or some religious group comes in and takes over the license.
[21:43.110 --> 21:45.730]  And a lot of people are very upset by this.
[21:45.730 --> 21:50.610]  People who program various shows on those stations as well as many, many listeners.
[21:51.210 --> 21:54.950]  But without the financial backing, there's just no contest.
[21:54.950 --> 21:57.030]  And that's why we have to do things like this.
[21:57.090 --> 21:57.870]  It's annoying, I know.
[21:57.950 --> 22:02.770]  And it's particularly annoying now with the economic conditions as they are.
[22:02.770 --> 22:06.650]  And just because so many things have happened, a lot of this is the result of Sandy.
[22:06.810 --> 22:10.150]  We're still recovering from that in many, many ways.
[22:10.330 --> 22:24.390]  But, Robert, you said about hurricanes, for instance, a good example during Sandy or after Sandy, for the two weeks that I didn't have power, the radio was so vital to my life because I would turn it on to hear what was going on in the world.
[22:24.510 --> 22:25.490]  Nothing else worked.
[22:25.790 --> 22:31.070]  And it doesn't matter what RSS feeds I subscribe to or how great my system is.
[22:31.070 --> 22:37.110]  If I don't have any power or if the ISP is down and there's no connectivity, you're not going to hear anything.
[22:37.110 --> 22:40.090]  You need radio stations to be able to give out information.
[22:40.310 --> 22:45.110]  There's a lot of power in that and there's a lot of potential for incredible things.
[22:45.250 --> 22:51.210]  And just ask yourself, how many times have you turned on WBAI and listened for the sake of the programming?
[22:52.230 --> 22:55.550]  Certainly, when we're asking for money, it can be kind of tiring.
[22:55.550 --> 22:56.150]  I know that.
[22:56.150 --> 23:01.910]  But there are other times when we don't ask for money where we are bringing you some really in-depth coverage of one thing or another.
[23:02.070 --> 23:05.210]  And that's why it's vital that you give a call.
[23:05.310 --> 23:06.830]  516-620-3602.
[23:06.950 --> 23:11.210]  Let's move on to things that are happening in the world of technology this week.
[23:11.510 --> 23:13.530]  And Mike, what's going on?
[23:13.790 --> 23:14.510]  Good news.
[23:14.650 --> 23:15.210]  A lot of good news.
[23:15.430 --> 23:16.730]  Yeah, it's really weird.
[23:17.010 --> 23:23.530]  There have been, over the past few weeks, three court decisions that have really surprised me.
[23:23.830 --> 23:26.990]  All right, let's start with the national security letters.
[23:27.650 --> 23:30.410]  So people might not know what a national security letter is.
[23:30.470 --> 23:34.390]  And the government doesn't want you to know because it's really creepy.
[23:34.530 --> 23:37.730]  What it is, is the letter that the FBI sends.
[23:37.870 --> 23:40.450]  And I want to stress, it's not the court that sends it.
[23:40.570 --> 23:42.490]  It's not an independent body of any sort.
[23:42.770 --> 23:48.450]  It's the FBI that, on its own authority, sends these letters to telecommunications providers.
[23:48.450 --> 23:54.650]  Telecommunications providers, could be people who make internet services, could be your phone company, could be whoever.
[23:54.770 --> 23:55.490]  They send this letter.
[23:55.670 --> 23:56.210]  It's your library.
[23:56.450 --> 23:57.430]  It could be a library.
[23:58.630 --> 24:03.070]  They send this letter, and the recipient has to give some information to the FBI.
[24:05.210 --> 24:10.570]  And they are not allowed to tell the person who the information is about.
[24:10.570 --> 24:24.150]  So if they want my phone records, they send a letter to my phone company, get the records, and my phone company is prohibited from ever saying anything to anyone about it.
[24:24.190 --> 24:27.230]  Well, I'm looking here, and it says they're sent without judicial review.
[24:27.510 --> 24:27.750]  Right.
[24:27.770 --> 24:32.530]  So under what authority are they saying that you're not allowed to disclose the fact that you got a letter?
[24:33.210 --> 24:37.730]  There's a law giving the FBI this power.
[24:38.130 --> 24:38.510]  Wow.
[24:39.230 --> 24:39.510]  Okay.
[24:39.510 --> 24:40.830]  That was part of the Patriot Act, wasn't it?
[24:41.470 --> 24:42.670]  I know it's a law.
[24:42.910 --> 24:43.810]  I don't know which.
[24:43.910 --> 24:44.150]  Well, okay.
[24:44.250 --> 24:45.270]  What happened on Friday, Mike?
[24:46.230 --> 24:53.630]  So what happened on Friday was that a court ruled in California that these national security letters are unconstitutional.
[24:54.290 --> 24:54.730]  Unconstitutional.
[24:54.830 --> 24:55.270]  Yeah.
[24:55.270 --> 24:56.230]  You heard it here first.
[24:56.450 --> 24:59.710]  Actually, you heard it here a long time ago, but now you're hearing it from a federal judge.
[25:01.230 --> 25:15.790]  The gag provisions in particular were found unconstitutional, and the court found that the whole thing is just like so unconstitutional that the court is not willing to find a way to try and what's called sever the unconstitutional parts.
[25:15.930 --> 25:17.310]  And they said the whole thing, throw it out.
[25:17.610 --> 25:20.690]  Congress has to try again if they want to have this power.
[25:20.910 --> 25:23.290]  They have to try and find a way to do it that's reviewable.
[25:23.290 --> 25:23.970]  So U.S.
[25:24.290 --> 25:32.170]  District Judge Susan Ilston has ordered the FBI to stop issuing the letters, but she put that order on hold for 90 days so that the U.S.
[25:32.450 --> 25:35.070]  Department of Justice can pursue an appeal to the Ninth U.S.
[25:35.170 --> 25:36.110]  Circuit Court of Appeals.
[25:37.070 --> 25:38.590]  So it's not over yet.
[25:38.950 --> 25:46.670]  It's a good indication, but at least someone's listening someplace, and we'll see if it actually goes anywhere.
[25:46.850 --> 25:49.190]  I just know if I got one of those letters, of course, I wouldn't get a letter.
[25:49.310 --> 25:52.210]  I'd be probably the subject of one of the letters.
[25:52.210 --> 26:00.230]  But if someone sent me a letter and said that I wasn't allowed to tell anybody I got the letter, I'd be out there with a megaphone immediately.
[26:00.350 --> 26:03.550]  What can they do to you if you tell people that you got a letter?
[26:04.050 --> 26:05.150]  They can do all kinds of things.
[26:05.210 --> 26:06.010]  They can throw you in jail.
[26:06.110 --> 26:06.550]  How about this?
[26:06.610 --> 26:10.650]  How about every day I tell people I didn't get a letter, and then one day I don't do that?
[26:12.530 --> 26:14.510]  So one of the people to get a letter...
[26:14.510 --> 26:18.350]  So mostly big companies get these letters, and they just comply with them because they're
[26:22.210 --> 26:26.310]  Nicholas Merrill of Calix got one of these letters, and this was quite some time ago.
[26:26.490 --> 26:27.830]  And he actually fought it.
[26:27.950 --> 26:31.290]  So there was a court case called John Doe versus the U.S.
[26:31.390 --> 26:34.770]  government because he wasn't allowed to say he was the one fighting it.
[26:35.190 --> 26:36.710]  And he gave a talk...
[26:36.710 --> 26:42.950]  He wasn't allowed to take it to court and say he was taking it to court because that would be admitting that he got a letter.
[26:42.950 --> 26:43.390]  Exactly.
[26:43.930 --> 26:44.430]  And so...
[26:44.430 --> 26:45.950]  And this guy, by the way, speaks at Hope.
[26:46.090 --> 26:46.550]  Yeah, he was at Hope.
[26:46.550 --> 26:47.430]  I want you to know that.
[26:47.530 --> 26:51.550]  I recommend everyone to download his talk from our website.
[26:51.550 --> 26:52.210]  He was at Hope.
[26:52.210 --> 26:52.670]  He's great.
[26:53.870 --> 27:00.110]  And people knew him and were like, hey, Nick, are you the guy fighting this lawsuit?
[27:00.230 --> 27:03.710]  Because it seems like if you got one of these letters, this is the kind of thing you'd do.
[27:03.910 --> 27:05.390]  And he had to lie to them.
[27:05.590 --> 27:06.990]  Well, how about he just didn't answer them?
[27:06.990 --> 27:07.890]  He had to lie to them.
[27:08.030 --> 27:10.050]  I can't hear what you're saying or something like that.
[27:10.050 --> 27:15.230]  If he said, I'm not allowed to say, then they would know he was the one and that would be not allowed.
[27:15.510 --> 27:19.110]  Yeah, but if they figure it out, does he have to lie?
[27:19.250 --> 27:20.670]  Does he have to say he didn't get a letter?
[27:20.870 --> 27:24.950]  The advice he was given by his attorneys is that he had a lie.
[27:25.290 --> 27:27.030]  Well, attorneys always tell you to lie.
[27:27.310 --> 27:27.450]  All right.
[27:27.510 --> 27:28.030]  All right.
[27:28.130 --> 27:34.410]  So he fought this thing and he eventually got it sort of reduced in his specific case.
[27:34.530 --> 27:37.430]  So he can now say that he got the letter and he fought it.
[27:37.430 --> 27:41.930]  But he still can't say what they were asking for or who they were asking about.
[27:42.510 --> 27:52.670]  So it was a sort of partial victory, not as good as the recent San Francisco victory, where the judge said the whole thing is unconstitutional.
[27:53.470 --> 27:56.910]  So we now know a couple of people who've got these letters.
[27:57.210 --> 27:58.730]  But it's really crazy.
[27:59.090 --> 28:00.490]  We know other people got letters?
[28:00.770 --> 28:02.050]  We're not supposed to know anybody.
[28:02.050 --> 28:03.850]  We now know that there have been a few people.
[28:04.630 --> 28:10.850]  Google just announced the number of these letters they get every year.
[28:11.010 --> 28:11.890]  And they won't...
[28:11.890 --> 28:13.030]  They're not allowed...
[28:13.030 --> 28:13.830]  No, not the number.
[28:14.010 --> 28:15.070]  Not some crazy range.
[28:15.330 --> 28:17.210]  Yeah, they're not allowed to say the specific number.
[28:17.350 --> 28:20.070]  They're allowed to say they got somewhere between zero and a thousand.
[28:20.150 --> 28:20.390]  So wait a minute.
[28:20.670 --> 28:24.710]  How come Google can say they got letters and other people can't?
[28:25.050 --> 28:25.510]  I don't know.
[28:25.510 --> 28:27.390]  If you get more than one, you can say you got a bunch?
[28:27.610 --> 28:28.870]  I don't know the rules.
[28:32.050 --> 28:38.150]  Well, maybe that's it, or maybe you just can't say specifically who's being investigated, but you can say you got a letter.
[28:38.230 --> 28:38.790]  Is that possible?
[28:39.130 --> 28:46.350]  It's possible that because Kalex, Nicholas Merrill's company, had so few clients that there was more of a risk.
[28:46.450 --> 28:46.810]  I don't know.
[28:46.850 --> 28:56.010]  I don't know the details, but Google is giving us these vague things that between zero and a thousand of these letters have been received every year.
[28:56.170 --> 28:57.550]  Wait, between zero and a thousand?
[28:57.630 --> 28:58.470]  So that could mean zero.
[28:59.410 --> 29:00.090]  It doesn't.
[29:00.290 --> 29:00.670]  It could mean 999.
[29:00.910 --> 29:01.730]  How do you know it doesn't?
[29:02.050 --> 29:12.890]  Well, because they also give a range for the number of people of these investigations or something, and most years it's between zero and a thousand, but one year it was between a thousand and two thousand.
[29:13.270 --> 29:13.830]  Oh, okay.
[29:13.890 --> 29:15.130]  So you need at least one letter for that.
[29:15.250 --> 29:15.370]  Yeah.
[29:15.710 --> 29:16.090]  Hey, Mike.
[29:16.330 --> 29:16.550]  Yeah.
[29:17.370 --> 29:24.950]  When 90 days has passed, which I guess will be in like 85 days or something, if the U.S.
[29:25.070 --> 29:35.650]  government doesn't get an injunction or a stay or something, does it open up the possibility for everybody who's ever gotten one of these letters to suddenly say, hey, I got one of these.
[29:35.690 --> 29:36.050]  Here it is.
[29:36.110 --> 29:38.570]  I'm going to post it online so you can see how evil this letter is.
[29:38.710 --> 29:41.850]  That would be amazing, but somehow I suspect that it won't happen.
[29:41.850 --> 29:44.830]  What if I say I did get a letter and I didn't get a letter?
[29:45.090 --> 29:45.650]  I don't know.
[29:45.830 --> 29:48.090]  I'm lying, but I'm lying in the other direction.
[29:48.690 --> 29:51.330]  I remember hearing about an old puzzle somewhere in Greek mythology.
[29:51.430 --> 29:52.950]  You don't want me in your courtroom, believe me.
[29:53.010 --> 29:55.150]  I'll have all kinds of possible outcomes.
[29:55.450 --> 30:00.210]  So if Emmanuel always lies about getting a letter and Mike always tells the truth about getting a letter and I...
[30:00.210 --> 30:01.630]  I never said I would always lie.
[30:01.990 --> 30:02.450]  I don't know.
[30:02.630 --> 30:02.750]  Yeah.
[30:03.470 --> 30:04.290]  Sometimes I do, though.
[30:04.770 --> 30:05.730]  Sometimes I say that, I mean.
[30:06.170 --> 30:06.910]  Okay, let's move on.
[30:06.970 --> 30:07.610]  We have more good news.
[30:07.610 --> 30:09.610]  So how about drones, then?
[30:09.770 --> 30:11.270]  There's news about drones.
[30:11.950 --> 30:13.090]  I don't know that news.
[30:13.230 --> 30:13.550]  Oh, okay.
[30:13.990 --> 30:25.870]  Federal Appeals Court has just ruled, well, recently, in the last couple of days, that the CIA cannot continue to neither confirm nor deny the existence of the drone war.
[30:26.070 --> 30:29.470]  So I thought that was FOIA news, not drone news, but okay.
[30:29.610 --> 30:35.470]  It is drone news because there was a court case prompted by a Freedom of Information Act request by the ACLU.
[30:35.470 --> 30:38.770]  Now, what the ACLU says is this is an important victory.
[30:38.970 --> 30:51.670]  It requires the government to retire the absurd claim that the CIA's interest in the targeted killing program is a secret, and it will make it more difficult for the government to deflect questions about the program's scope and legal basis.
[30:51.670 --> 30:57.750]  It also means the CIA will have to explain what records it is withholding and on what grounds it is withholding them.
[30:57.770 --> 31:03.990]  So a little less obscurity, a little more openness, but there's still drones up there in the air killing people at random, it seems.
[31:04.910 --> 31:05.350]  Right.
[31:05.510 --> 31:12.290]  So this was an appeals court decision, so it's a little higher level than the last one we mentioned, but still appealable to the Supreme Court.
[31:12.550 --> 31:16.650]  And I read the decision, and it's like not as awesome as we might hope.
[31:17.110 --> 31:27.910]  It says the CIA has to basically give an index to the indexes that it doesn't want to release or something weird like that.
[31:28.750 --> 31:41.450]  But the CIA has taken this absurd position that they can neither confirm nor deny whether or not they have any interest at all in flying killer robots, as drones ought to be called.
[31:42.850 --> 31:47.190]  And meanwhile, everyone knows that the CIA operates flying killer robots.
[31:47.410 --> 31:54.490]  The president goes on television and basically says so or hints at it, and all kinds of people make public statements about it.
[31:54.830 --> 32:01.190]  And the CIA, you know, if the CIA actually had no knowledge of any of this, then they wouldn't be doing their job.
[32:01.350 --> 32:03.430]  But of course, they are doing their job.
[32:03.570 --> 32:06.810]  And they, of course, know all kinds of things about this.
[32:07.170 --> 32:18.030]  And so maybe one day some of those documents will be released, or at least the titles of the documents might be released, or at least the titles of the indexes of the documents might be released.
[32:18.730 --> 32:21.870]  Any of these would be better than what the CIA is trying to do.
[32:21.990 --> 32:27.430]  Well, in defense of robots, I just want to point out that the robots themselves are not the killers.
[32:27.630 --> 32:37.550]  There are people controlling them that have pictures from the drones that look down and say, this looks like a good person to kill, and then a missile comes out of the sky and kills them.
[32:38.630 --> 32:42.530]  So the robots aren't making these decisions, and I don't think they would make those kind of decisions.
[32:42.950 --> 32:43.310]  Yet.
[32:44.150 --> 32:47.510]  Well, hopefully the laws of robotics will hold, but we'll see.
[32:48.130 --> 32:48.990]  Okay, how about this?
[32:48.990 --> 32:52.470]  This is the Fourth Amendment applying at the border.
[32:52.650 --> 32:53.850]  That's more good news, isn't it?
[32:54.450 --> 32:55.590]  You want to tell us about that, Bernie?
[32:56.190 --> 33:00.830]  Well, yeah, I don't have it in front of me, but I think this was another Ninth Circuit...
[33:00.830 --> 33:01.750]  It is.
[33:02.050 --> 33:02.290]  ...circuit.
[33:02.530 --> 33:03.570]  It's like, man, it was...
[33:03.570 --> 33:08.630]  Ninth Circuit, that's like California and like West Coast, and there's about like eight states.
[33:08.790 --> 33:10.350]  That's the court to find yourself in.
[33:10.370 --> 33:12.790]  Yeah, I'm telling you, they're making all these great decisions lately.
[33:13.130 --> 33:15.790]  The CIA decision was from the D.C.
[33:15.850 --> 33:16.230]  Circuit.
[33:16.230 --> 33:19.690]  Okay, but the first one you mentioned was Ninth Circuit.
[33:19.810 --> 33:29.030]  This one's Ninth Circuit, and we've been talking for a long time about when you come into the United States from abroad, that the U.S.
[33:29.150 --> 33:37.470]  government can search through all your digital devices, your hard drive on your laptop, your phone memory, your MP3, everything.
[33:37.470 --> 33:41.290]  They can just go through all your files without any kind of... not even having a warrant.
[33:41.410 --> 33:45.370]  They don't even need any kind of reasonable suspicion or probable cause, nothing.
[33:45.670 --> 33:53.470]  They can just go through all that stuff until Ninth Circuit just made this decision this past few days and says, no, you really need...
[33:54.630 --> 33:58.930]  Do they need probable cause, Mike, or do they just need at least reasonable suspicion at this point?
[33:59.650 --> 34:03.930]  My understanding is probable cause, but I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know the difference anyway.
[34:03.930 --> 34:21.990]  So this is huge, but I think it could set up an interesting situation where if people want some extra privacy when they come into the country and not risk the government pawing through their hard drives and phone memories and all this stuff, if you just come in through the West Coast and land somewhere in the Ninth Circuit,
[34:22.190 --> 34:24.330]  then you have that protection.
[34:24.370 --> 34:27.770]  But I'm not sure if this applies to the whole country, does it, right now?
[34:27.770 --> 34:29.130]  Not currently.
[34:29.630 --> 34:32.890]  So this is the only decision of which I'm aware on this topic.
[34:33.750 --> 34:35.790]  And of course, the government's going to try and appeal it.
[34:35.910 --> 34:44.010]  And if they're, you know, if you're willing to go to court in another circuit, you would be able to use this decision to sort of support your case.
[34:45.010 --> 34:52.090]  There's one other interesting aspect of this decision that I think has gotten downplayed a bit, but I think is at least as interesting.
[34:52.910 --> 35:02.190]  Not only does the government need probable cause to search your laptop, but the mere fact that you encrypt your laptop is not sufficient to establish probable cause.
[35:02.450 --> 35:10.750]  And that is relevant in the underlying case, but it is good for people who like their privacy.
[35:10.750 --> 35:16.530]  You can encrypt your laptop or your phone or whatever, and the government can't say, oh, that's suspicious.
[35:16.530 --> 35:17.510]  We're going to search you.
[35:17.690 --> 35:21.170]  And they also can't compel you to enter a password.
[35:21.170 --> 35:21.910]  Right.
[35:22.190 --> 35:22.450]  All right.
[35:22.730 --> 35:27.290]  Yeah, I always had a problem with that, you know, having to actually give out a password and be expected to.
[35:27.430 --> 35:32.310]  I was never asked, but had I been asked, I certainly would not have given that information out.
[35:32.490 --> 35:41.370]  Of course, they might steal your laptop and not give it back to you while the court proceedings are underway and all this stuff, but the decision is very good.
[35:41.710 --> 35:42.010]  All right.
[35:42.070 --> 35:49.190]  And one final bit of good news, because we do have our limits, has to do with textbook reselling and a Supreme Court decision.
[35:49.430 --> 35:50.450]  The first sale doctrine.
[35:50.450 --> 35:52.850]  Yeah, what is a first sale doctrine, Bernie?
[35:53.230 --> 35:58.450]  Basically means that if you buy something, you can do whatever you want with it.
[35:58.590 --> 36:00.070]  I mean, within reason.
[36:00.110 --> 36:19.670]  In other words, if you gave me a book or a piece of software or something, or if I bought it from you, I could, or a piece of music, I could, I could, the first sale doctrine says that I can resell it.
[36:19.750 --> 36:21.730]  I can give it to, I can give it to somebody else as a gift.
[36:21.850 --> 36:26.250]  I can, I can loan it to Rob or Mike and they can enjoy it.
[36:26.250 --> 36:41.030]  It's a first sale doctrine, but all these, a lot of companies lately have been filing lawsuits against people who had the audacity to loan out or sell something they had bought.
[36:41.030 --> 36:41.550]  Right.
[36:41.690 --> 36:52.070]  And the big issue around this particular case was that a publisher of textbooks sells textbooks much cheaper overseas in another country than they go for in this country.
[36:52.230 --> 37:03.250]  And so somebody in that other country was then able to buy them up at a low price and resell them to people here for less than you would still pay for that book here in general, in ordinary circumstances.
[37:03.250 --> 37:15.790]  So, um, it was actually Wiley and Sons, who are not unknown to us, but, uh, they, they basically wanted to stop people from importing these textbooks that were cheaper somewhere else just for, because of the fact that they're cheaper.
[37:16.170 --> 37:18.730]  And the court now says they're not allowed to do that.
[37:18.930 --> 37:19.590]  You know what, folks?
[37:19.710 --> 37:20.890]  It's called capitalism.
[37:21.370 --> 37:28.650]  And, and we supposedly support that when, uh, when the big guys come out on top and sell things for whatever the market, uh, bears.
[37:28.650 --> 37:33.070]  Well, now the little guy is, is figuring out ways to get things for cheaper.
[37:33.390 --> 37:38.970]  And, uh, how can, how can anyone in any conscience, uh, go in and say that's wrong?
[37:39.190 --> 37:40.090]  It was a copyright.
[37:40.250 --> 37:41.870]  They said it was a copyright violation.
[37:41.950 --> 37:42.090]  Right.
[37:42.090 --> 37:44.870]  If you sold this, which is, you know, another ridiculous application.
[37:44.870 --> 37:46.290]  It's not making a copy of it.
[37:46.470 --> 37:52.370]  It's, it's, it's basically selling the same textbook for, uh, for whatever somebody will, will buy it for.
[37:52.370 --> 37:55.010]  It's not basically selling the same textbook.
[37:55.050 --> 37:58.910]  It is literally purchasing the same textbook and selling the same one.
[37:59.090 --> 37:59.430]  Right, right.
[38:00.350 --> 38:00.750]  Wow.
[38:00.990 --> 38:02.990]  What about member of, uh, import records?
[38:03.130 --> 38:03.990]  There's all this legal stuff.
[38:03.990 --> 38:08.970]  A friend of mine years ago, he got prosecuted by the FBI for, uh, for selling import records.
[38:09.450 --> 38:11.610]  Um, it's, it's ridiculous.
[38:11.610 --> 38:20.150]  Well, the thing is, with, with today's, uh, digital, uh, um, technology, uh, you can actually put artificial limits and controls and things like that.
[38:20.150 --> 38:26.490]  Amazon won't let you buy music from overseas in their, uh, in their MP3, uh, uh, download section.
[38:26.870 --> 38:33.190]  And, uh, other, other kinds of restrictions with DVD players, only being able to play certain, uh, DVDs for your region.
[38:33.730 --> 38:41.110]  Uh, these are artificial ways to control people and to make sure they don't buy something that, uh, the industry doesn't want them to buy.
[38:41.190 --> 38:45.350]  There's always ways around it, and it's not illegal for you to do such things.
[38:45.350 --> 38:53.290]  But, uh, it just goes to show they really want to be able to control this, and they're very frustrated they can't control it with the old-fashioned analog technology.
[38:53.430 --> 38:53.670]  Right.
[38:53.850 --> 38:54.930]  This is a Supreme Court decision.
[38:55.510 --> 38:55.750]  Mm-hmm.
[38:55.810 --> 39:04.070]  Yeah, and this is another example of, uh, big companies and, uh, entities really not, uh, coming to terms with the actual technological realities we live with now.
[39:04.070 --> 39:14.730]  Because if I wanted to come out with, uh, something, a book, a piece of music, a film, whatever, and I wanted to sell it directly, and, uh, I put it out on the internet, let anyone in the world buy it, because we have this global marketplace now.
[39:15.050 --> 39:18.570]  But, I said, but, if you're from this country, I want more money from you.
[39:18.650 --> 39:20.290]  If you're from that country, I'll give you a break.
[39:20.870 --> 39:22.730]  Um, that would, I think that would be strange.
[39:22.950 --> 39:24.930]  That would be something, uh, strange to do on my part.
[39:25.310 --> 39:25.670]  But, because...
[39:25.670 --> 39:26.650]  Why would you do that, Rob?
[39:26.750 --> 39:28.030]  I don't know why I'd do that.
[39:28.090 --> 39:28.650]  What's wrong with me?
[39:28.650 --> 39:37.670]  But, uh, but the fact is that these companies are used to selling, uh, records at different prices in different countries, and selling movies at different prices in different countries, and they really can't do that anymore.
[39:37.810 --> 39:40.470]  They don't have the ability to restrict their material anymore.
[39:41.010 --> 39:43.770]  And that's a Supreme Court decision, so there's no appeals on this.
[39:43.950 --> 39:49.710]  This is the final word, and it's just tough cookies for these, uh, copyright, uh...
[39:49.710 --> 39:53.790]  All right, well, like I, like I warned people, we're out of good news now, now let's move into the reality.
[39:53.790 --> 39:58.130]  Uh, the Obama administration is drawing up plans to give all U.S.
[39:58.250 --> 40:05.390]  spy agencies full access to a massive database that contains financial data on American citizens and others who bank in the country.
[40:05.390 --> 40:11.630]  That's according to a Treasury Department document that was seen by Reuters, and Reuters is telling us all about it now.
[40:11.630 --> 40:14.890]  Uh, the proposed plan represents a major step by U.S.
[40:15.250 --> 40:24.010]  intelligence agencies to spot and track down terrorist networks and crime syndicates by bringing together financial data banks, criminal records, and military intelligence.
[40:24.010 --> 40:27.710]  The plan, which legal experts say is permissible under U.S.
[40:27.810 --> 40:32.450]  law, is nonetheless likely to trigger intense criticism from privacy advocates.
[40:33.110 --> 40:34.770]  And that would include us, wouldn't it?
[40:35.390 --> 40:36.790]  Yeah, I guess.
[40:37.090 --> 40:40.570]  Well, we don't seem that enthusiastic about this, but, yeah, let's criticize.
[40:41.130 --> 40:41.530]  Definitely.
[40:41.530 --> 40:42.350]  I criticize this.
[40:42.470 --> 40:43.130]  It's a bad plan.
[40:43.270 --> 40:45.510]  I wish the government would stop spying on us so much.
[40:45.690 --> 40:45.730]  Uh-huh.
[40:45.850 --> 40:55.970]  Yeah, and it's not just us either, because if it's any banking transaction that goes through in this country, how much of the international financial world happens here and now?
[40:56.090 --> 40:57.190]  We've got the credit card companies.
[40:57.370 --> 41:03.310]  We've got these big, you know, these big entities through which so much of the world goes through besides our own.
[41:03.550 --> 41:06.070]  So now we're effectively spying on foreigners again.
[41:06.070 --> 41:16.350]  Well, just to clarify here, the FBI already does have access to this database, but intelligence agencies like the CIA or the NSA, they have to make case-by-case requests for information.
[41:16.770 --> 41:23.590]  And this plan would give those spy agencies the ability to analyze much more raw financial data than they ever have before.
[41:23.770 --> 41:27.670]  And it's just basically putting us all under the magnifying glass.
[41:27.670 --> 41:31.870]  So it's not a good thing, even if you're innocent of everything.
[41:31.870 --> 41:33.610]  It's not a good thing to always be watched.
[41:34.190 --> 41:35.710]  Especially if you're innocent of everything.
[41:35.970 --> 41:36.810]  Well, yeah, yeah.
[41:38.630 --> 41:45.850]  Now, we react in different ways to surveillance, to people spying on us, to people wanting to see just what it is we're up to.
[41:46.210 --> 41:49.430]  And this woman in New Jersey reacted in a rather unique way.
[41:50.410 --> 42:02.810]  She got out of her car and lifted her shirt and bra and exposed her breast to surveillance cameras on the street in Barnegat, Barnegat, New Jersey.
[42:03.390 --> 42:08.750]  A police report says that 56-year-old Wendy Tucker was driving on Lexington Boulevard at 2 a.m.
[42:09.350 --> 42:12.730]  on March the 6th when she got out of her vehicle in the middle of the road.
[42:12.730 --> 42:16.790]  Police say she looked at the camera while extending her middle fingers.
[42:17.590 --> 42:19.690]  She then pulled up her shirt and bra.
[42:19.830 --> 42:23.990]  Patrolman Michael de Blassie was able to track her down.
[42:24.170 --> 42:36.910]  I have to wonder what his motivations are, but he basically eventually located the vehicle and found her and charged her with lewdness and put her in the Atlantic County Jail.
[42:37.430 --> 42:41.350]  Now, my question here is, lewdness to whom exactly?
[42:41.350 --> 42:43.150]  Basically, there were no people around.
[42:43.250 --> 42:44.150]  There was only a camera.
[42:44.330 --> 42:46.110]  It was lewdness to the person spying on her.
[42:46.610 --> 42:49.790]  That's a crime, really, to be lewd to people that are spying on you?
[42:50.010 --> 42:54.510]  Yeah, and not only can you get in trouble for flashing someone, you can now get in trouble for flashing no one.
[42:55.410 --> 42:56.970]  Yeah, weird, isn't it?
[42:59.130 --> 43:00.930]  It raises a really interesting question.
[43:01.090 --> 43:06.150]  If it was like, you know, is there like, if a tree in the forest falls and there's nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound?
[43:06.150 --> 43:12.130]  Well, like, if you flash a camera and there's nobody around to see it, have you done an act of lewdness?
[43:12.390 --> 43:17.310]  I mean, basically, if the police weren't spying on her, there would have been no offense.
[43:18.550 --> 43:19.030]  Yeah.
[43:19.030 --> 43:20.130]  So, this is bizarre.
[43:20.450 --> 43:30.310]  Well, yeah, it's a bit disturbing and scary that they'll go to the trouble of tracking somebody down because they offended a camera or the person spying on you.
[43:30.310 --> 43:38.250]  Um, okay, uh, other, uh, hacker news, um, Colin Powell's Facebook page was defaced.
[43:38.250 --> 43:39.350]  Big news there.
[43:39.550 --> 43:44.670]  And supposedly the hacker who did that also broke into his AOL email account.
[43:45.190 --> 43:48.090]  Colin Powell uses AOL.
[43:48.450 --> 43:49.070]  Think about that.
[43:49.210 --> 43:53.030]  Uh, rummaged through years of the former Secretary of State's correspondence.
[43:53.410 --> 43:57.130]  Did he really use AOL for, for sensitive, uh, communication?
[43:57.130 --> 43:58.230]  I really hope not.
[43:58.230 --> 44:03.730]  Uh, Powell was unaware that his account had been illegally accessed until he was contacted by a reporter.
[44:04.010 --> 44:12.150]  Uh, spokesperson said that Powell has regained control of the account and has taken precautions to keep it from, again, being compromised, meaning he probably just changed his password.
[44:12.750 --> 44:27.510]  Uh, known as Guccifer, the, uh, hacker accessed Powell's emails about financial and personal affairs, as well as his correspondence with a wide array of former government officials, including ex-CIA Director George Tenet, former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage,
[44:27.670 --> 44:29.390]  and, uh, John Negoponte, former U.S.
[44:29.730 --> 44:30.570]  Ambassador to the United Nations.
[44:31.230 --> 44:40.630]  Uh, in response, uh, to an email asking how the parallel attacks were accomplished, uh, Guccifer responded by saying these are irrelevant, extraneous technical questions.
[44:41.770 --> 44:42.790]  Oh, yeah.
[44:43.290 --> 44:53.930]  Uh, the hacker's audacious rampage was first disclosed last month when, uh, the, uh, site known as TSG reported that email accounts of several Bush family members and friends have been broken into.
[44:53.930 --> 44:59.870]  Uh, in addition to, uh, in addition to those illegal incursions, Guccifer also recently accessed online accounts of U.S.
[44:59.930 --> 45:07.150]  Senator Lisa Munkowski, a senior United Nations official, security contractors in Iraq, and several former FBI agents.
[45:07.670 --> 45:18.530]  Uh, uh, so, um, no doubt they are going to go after this person with all kinds of, uh, of, of gusto and, uh, lock him up for the rest of, uh, his life if they, if they ever catch him.
[45:18.530 --> 45:28.270]  But, uh, you know, in the old days, uh, this would just be, uh, basically rummaging through somebody's trash or finding something that they just left lying around, uh, that they really shouldn't have.
[45:28.530 --> 45:36.790]  And, uh, if someone, someone of that stature can be, uh, compromised so easily, you have to wonder who else can be compromised, and isn't that something we should know about?
[45:37.290 --> 45:51.890]  It's not only that, but if people like Colin Powell and the Bush family and these people who ostensibly should know better are still paying so little attention to common, common sense security practices, like maybe not using AOL to store a year's worth of,
[45:51.890 --> 45:58.190]  uh, confidential government-level emails, then, you know, but, uh, but then you could be a vice-presidential candidate and still use Yahoo as well, so.
[45:59.390 --> 45:59.750]  Yeah.
[45:59.750 --> 46:00.590]  There's a phone ringing.
[46:01.030 --> 46:01.390]  Wow.
[46:01.610 --> 46:02.550]  If it's for me, I'm not here.
[46:02.750 --> 46:04.230]  I don't even know we had a phone like that in here.
[46:04.670 --> 46:05.470]  I see it.
[46:05.710 --> 46:06.750]  Now we know it's here.
[46:06.870 --> 46:07.210]  Where?
[46:07.310 --> 46:07.770]  This one here?
[46:07.850 --> 46:08.290]  No, no, no.
[46:08.590 --> 46:10.050]  Behind you, the one that's blinking.
[46:10.270 --> 46:10.530]  Oh, okay.
[46:10.630 --> 46:10.890]  Hold on.
[46:12.110 --> 46:12.470]  There.
[46:14.170 --> 46:15.150]  Uh, I'm sorry.
[46:15.150 --> 46:17.210]  I have to do that, uh, because we're on the air.
[46:17.310 --> 46:18.510]  I'm sorry, Mr. Powell, but we can't talk to you just now.
[46:18.710 --> 46:19.090]  We're doing a show.
[46:19.090 --> 46:20.190]  You have to call us after the show.
[46:20.850 --> 46:21.430]  Um, okay.
[46:21.530 --> 46:24.610]  Another, uh, bit of, uh, of, uh, quote-unquote justice.
[46:24.830 --> 46:36.030]  The nation's first convicted file sharer, uh, Jamie Thomas, has told the Recording Industry of America there is no way she can pay the $220,000 judgment after the U.S.
[46:36.070 --> 46:38.010]  Supreme Court declined to hear her appeal.
[46:38.830 --> 46:41.950]  Uh, basically, that case has dragged on for more than five years.
[46:41.950 --> 46:51.670]  A jury in the original trial sided with the RIAA to the tune of $9,250 for each of the 24 illegally shared songs that were the subject of the lawsuit.
[46:51.670 --> 46:54.610]  A total of, uh, $222,000.
[46:55.090 --> 46:57.910]  Uh, and I guess that was reduced to $220,000.
[46:58.450 --> 47:04.950]  Um, and, uh, basically, this, uh, made her the first file sharer in the country to be convicted for copyright infringements.
[47:05.050 --> 47:11.410]  We're talking about somebody who shared 24 songs and is being fined now $220,000.
[47:11.990 --> 47:16.770]  You know, I think, uh, the RIAA should say, basically, you know, we won the case.
[47:16.950 --> 47:17.730]  That's good enough.
[47:17.890 --> 47:20.690]  Uh, did this person really cost $220,000?
[47:20.690 --> 47:29.950]  If not, drop it already, because you're really looking like a bunch of idiots here by, uh, continuing to pursue some, some poor person that obviously is never going to be able to pay this.
[47:30.350 --> 47:38.590]  And, of course, we should all be concerned with the president that this sets in the first place, let alone the, uh, ridiculous, um, uh, fine that's being levied on this person.
[47:38.790 --> 47:41.230]  Yeah, I mean, this is, this is 24 songs she had.
[47:41.410 --> 47:50.030]  You could, I'm, I'm willing to, uh, I'm willing to bet that you would find, if you went online and tried to track down each one of these songs, you would spend maybe $50 buying them all.
[47:50.310 --> 47:52.190]  Um, not $220,000.
[47:52.190 --> 47:59.870]  So, I'm not sure quite how they're getting that number and saying this is what they're owed for her unauthorized, uh, um, ownership of these files.
[48:00.130 --> 48:03.290]  Yeah, I mean, cases like this are just no good for anybody.
[48:03.410 --> 48:09.430]  It's obviously torture for her, and it makes the, uh, the people pressing charges really look heartless.
[48:09.830 --> 48:12.410]  So, I can't imagine why it's gotten to this stage.
[48:12.550 --> 48:14.150]  They really should just drop it already.
[48:14.150 --> 48:15.310]  They won the case.
[48:15.470 --> 48:16.390]  That's what they were after.
[48:16.890 --> 48:18.030]  We have to deal with that.
[48:18.150 --> 48:20.470]  We have to figure out ways to, uh, counter that in the future.
[48:20.670 --> 48:23.530]  But, uh, really, come on, for the sake of humanity, move on.
[48:23.630 --> 48:30.210]  And, uh, don't let things like this happen to individual people that are not, uh, terrorists and not out to, uh, uh, to rip people off.
[48:30.290 --> 48:33.170]  It's pretty obvious that, uh, a lot of people are sharing things.
[48:33.290 --> 48:36.890]  And, and sharing is something that many of us were, were taught was a good thing.
[48:37.710 --> 48:38.150]  All right.
[48:38.590 --> 48:39.310]  Uh, you know what?
[48:39.370 --> 48:43.110]  Uh, we have so many other stories to, to go into, but I did promise we'd take phone calls.
[48:43.110 --> 48:44.810]  And I'd like to at least try to do that.
[48:45.530 --> 48:50.890]  Um, so, Bernie, we're, we're going to attempt, we're going to attempt to take phone calls while you're on and see if that works.
[48:50.890 --> 48:51.850]  I'm told it won't.
[48:52.130 --> 48:54.490]  And if it doesn't, we'll have to disconnect you.
[48:54.630 --> 48:54.950]  Okay.
[48:55.150 --> 48:55.730]  Is that all right?
[48:55.730 --> 48:56.050]  Yeah.
[48:56.230 --> 48:58.070]  If I, if I, if I get cut off, good night.
[48:58.190 --> 48:58.370]  All right.
[48:58.450 --> 49:03.070]  Well, I'm going to, uh, well, I'll say goodbye to you before I cut you off, but, uh, we're going to give out the phone number now.
[49:03.230 --> 49:06.070]  And, uh, at, at most we can take one call at a time.
[49:06.190 --> 49:08.250]  In other words, uh, other people will get a busy signal.
[49:08.710 --> 49:19.870]  So the phone number, and I'm not sure if this will continue to be the phone number, uh, but it's the phone number this week is 2 1 2 6 5 0 5 7 8 2.
[49:21.590 --> 49:25.130]  Well, I, uh, a whole bunch of people are poised on the, uh, on the keypad there.
[49:25.250 --> 49:26.550]  Let's see if anybody makes it in.
[49:26.790 --> 49:32.170]  I'm going to hit the, uh, conference button, which, um, uh, hopefully will allow me to conference another call.
[49:32.290 --> 49:35.310]  The phone is, uh, I saw a blink a second for a second.
[49:35.410 --> 49:35.550]  Okay.
[49:36.090 --> 49:39.930]  Uh, again, 2 1 2 6 5 0 5 7 8 2 is the phone number.
[49:40.130 --> 49:43.370]  And, uh, I, I assume it's going to re we, we tried it before.
[49:43.790 --> 49:46.670]  Uh, so I think it, um, I think it'll work.
[49:46.850 --> 49:48.770]  I think it'll work, but we'll, we'll find out in a second.
[49:49.910 --> 49:50.950]  You hear that?
[49:51.090 --> 49:53.750]  That's the sound of a ring coming through our phone system.
[49:54.090 --> 49:56.730]  We're going to hit the button and see if we get two people at once.
[49:56.730 --> 49:58.390]  If we don't, then we're going to lose Bernie.
[49:58.610 --> 49:58.950]  Hang on.
[50:00.110 --> 50:01.050]  Uh, good evening.
[50:01.050 --> 50:02.150]  You're on the radio.
[50:03.790 --> 50:04.830]  Is anybody there?
[50:05.510 --> 50:06.150]  Just Bernie.
[50:06.830 --> 50:07.150]  Okay.
[50:07.510 --> 50:08.770]  Bernie, I'm going to put you on hold.
[50:09.010 --> 50:09.290]  Okay.
[50:09.830 --> 50:11.110]  Um, hi.
[50:11.210 --> 50:11.870]  Is anybody there?
[50:12.290 --> 50:12.470]  Hi.
[50:12.630 --> 50:13.730]  Thanks for taking my call.
[50:13.850 --> 50:14.010]  Hello?
[50:14.250 --> 50:14.570]  Yes.
[50:14.710 --> 50:14.990]  Hi.
[50:19.870 --> 50:20.070]  Do you mind?
[50:20.550 --> 50:24.190]  You were talking about the possibility of transmitting in New Jersey.
[50:24.370 --> 50:24.610]  Mm-hmm.
[50:24.730 --> 50:28.710]  And I'm thinking you have the steep cliffs of the Palisades.
[50:29.170 --> 50:30.910]  What about transmitting from there?
[50:31.730 --> 50:34.090]  Transmitting from the steep cliffs of the Palisades.
[50:34.150 --> 50:35.770]  Well, what I'm going to do now is I'm going to go back to Bernie.
[50:35.830 --> 50:39.550]  And if you could listen on the radio, uh, to the answer to that particular question.
[50:39.790 --> 50:40.990]  Now, Bernie, I don't know if you heard any of that.
[50:41.110 --> 50:42.050]  Did you hear the question?
[50:42.630 --> 50:43.530]  I didn't hear anything.
[50:43.630 --> 50:44.410]  I was, while I was on hold.
[50:44.410 --> 50:45.270]  Okay, you were on hold.
[50:45.490 --> 50:50.350]  Uh, basically the person asked, uh, how about, uh, transmitting from the cliffs of the Palisades in New Jersey?
[50:50.570 --> 50:51.650]  Would that, uh, be an option?
[50:51.990 --> 50:54.830]  It's not nearly as high as the, uh, um, Parastate building.
[50:54.830 --> 51:01.490]  And you'd have to get, um, all kinds of FCC approvals, which again, you'd have to build a tower, first of all.
[51:01.550 --> 51:03.150]  You can't just put the antenna right on the cliff.
[51:03.230 --> 51:03.970]  You'd have to buy the land.
[51:04.110 --> 51:05.070]  You'd have to erect a tower.
[51:05.210 --> 51:05.990]  Again, with negativity.
[51:05.990 --> 51:07.770]  You can't just put an antenna on top of a cliff.
[51:07.970 --> 51:08.810]  I think it's...
[51:08.810 --> 51:09.210]  Why not?
[51:09.210 --> 51:10.170]  It's high up already.
[51:10.330 --> 51:12.530]  Just dig a little hole in the ground and stick it in there.
[51:12.630 --> 51:13.250]  That doesn't work?
[51:13.250 --> 51:15.010]  Like, try to make things simple.
[51:15.290 --> 51:18.150]  The range would still probably be considerably less.
[51:18.150 --> 51:21.170]  It would definitely be considerably less than on top of the Empire State Building.
[51:21.230 --> 51:32.290]  And it would probably take, uh, a year or two of, uh, engineering studies and probably, uh, several hundred thousand dollars in, um, uh, antenna construction costs.
[51:32.510 --> 51:33.750]  And you'd have to move the...
[51:33.750 --> 51:34.050]  It's...
[51:34.050 --> 51:35.030]  It's a big project.
[51:35.210 --> 51:37.110]  It's possible, but it wouldn't...
[51:37.110 --> 51:39.870]  The end result would be not nearly as good as what is happening now.
[51:40.190 --> 51:41.790]  How about a balloon?
[51:42.210 --> 51:43.330]  Uh, bear with me here.
[51:43.450 --> 51:51.510]  A balloon, uh, you know, one of these, uh, uh, nice big ones that you see occasionally, uh, hot air balloons, and you, you simply put the transmitter in that.
[51:51.630 --> 51:56.250]  Now, you know, you are higher than the Empire State Building when, when you're up in the air like that.
[51:56.650 --> 52:02.430]  And, uh, you can also move around a bit and, uh, you know, find those fringe areas and, and serve them a little bit better.
[52:02.530 --> 52:04.810]  Now, I'm sure you're going to shoot that idea down too.
[52:04.810 --> 52:06.170]  Well, I think that's a great idea.
[52:06.390 --> 52:11.490]  I mean, the transmitter weighs a couple of tons, literally, like the size of a big car.
[52:12.550 --> 52:14.570]  And you have to have a power source too.
[52:14.570 --> 52:17.830]  So you'd need a battery probably weighing at least several tons on top of that.
[52:18.270 --> 52:21.790]  Uh, or, because, or like really long, heavy-duty power cables.
[52:22.130 --> 52:25.710]  And then how, how big a balloon do you need to lift, uh, several tons?
[52:26.510 --> 52:27.710]  Well, I came up with the idea.
[52:27.850 --> 52:28.990]  I don't think I should have to come up with the...
[52:28.990 --> 52:29.910]  No, I think it's a great idea.
[52:30.050 --> 52:30.130]  Yeah.
[52:30.130 --> 52:31.010]  You just need a big balloon.
[52:31.310 --> 52:31.590]  Uh-huh.
[52:31.910 --> 52:32.110]  Yeah.
[52:32.510 --> 52:32.990]  All right.
[52:33.230 --> 52:34.430]  Uh, we have another call.
[52:34.570 --> 52:38.390]  Let's, uh, this wonderful noise on the air, uh, tells us.
[52:38.470 --> 52:39.990]  Bernie, we're going to put you on hold and take this call.
[52:40.630 --> 52:41.390]  And good evening.
[52:41.570 --> 52:42.470]  You're on Off the Hook.
[52:43.750 --> 52:46.550]  Yes, uh, I'm responding to the last caller.
[52:46.670 --> 52:49.750]  I think he's talking about the Alpine Tower, the Armstrong Tower.
[52:50.450 --> 52:51.290]  Okay, I don't know.
[52:51.770 --> 52:54.590]  I'm not familiar with that tower, but what, uh, what is that?
[52:54.710 --> 52:55.290]  Can't miss it.
[52:55.370 --> 52:59.650]  It's like a 300-foot tower right there in Alpine, New Jersey, right there on the Palatine.
[52:59.650 --> 53:04.210]  Okay, I wasn't trying to miss it, but I'm not aware of it because I'm not looking over there, but, uh, what's, what's on that tower now?
[53:04.330 --> 53:04.970]  Any radio stations?
[53:05.730 --> 53:06.410]  I believe so.
[53:06.590 --> 53:11.010]  When, um, 9-11 happened, they had to switch everything over to the Armstrong Tower.
[53:11.190 --> 53:11.450]  Uh-huh.
[53:11.930 --> 53:14.570]  And I believe the signal degraded when they did.
[53:15.530 --> 53:18.590]  Well, they were still able to push television and radio through.
[53:18.830 --> 53:19.110]  Uh-huh.
[53:19.270 --> 53:21.370]  I was still able to hear WBAI.
[53:21.570 --> 53:26.550]  Well, we weren't on, uh, we were on the Empire State Building the whole time, which was not hit by anything.
[53:27.610 --> 53:28.250]  So, yeah.
[53:28.910 --> 53:36.370]  That's why, if we were on the World Trade Center, like some stations were, WKCR was one station at Columbia, uh, they were knocked off the air when that, when that happened.
[53:36.530 --> 53:38.810]  So, yeah, that's, uh, it's a consideration.
[53:39.070 --> 53:40.290]  Uh, but, uh, thanks for that call.
[53:40.430 --> 53:42.030]  We're going to go back to Bernie on the other line.
[53:42.250 --> 53:43.990]  Uh, and Bernie, you still there?
[53:45.790 --> 53:46.590]  Bernie, hello.
[53:46.810 --> 53:47.030]  Yes.
[53:47.130 --> 53:47.870]  Okay, didn't hear you.
[53:47.970 --> 53:49.210]  And I did hear his question online.
[53:49.390 --> 53:50.210]  Okay, good, good.
[53:50.210 --> 53:52.770]  Well, uh, hopefully my response was, uh, was adequate.
[53:53.030 --> 53:53.450]  Yeah, it was a good, good answer.
[53:53.630 --> 53:55.310]  I mean, it's a good idea and a good answer.
[53:55.530 --> 53:56.650]  Yeah, but, you know, it wasn't a good idea.
[53:56.690 --> 53:58.650]  It was giving out the number and having this phone ring incessantly.
[53:59.630 --> 54:00.630]  But I'll tell you this.
[54:00.790 --> 54:04.710]  Um, one thing that I didn't mention that I would like to mention is the issue of multipath.
[54:04.870 --> 54:09.630]  Now, multipath is basically what happens in a city like New York where you have lots of tall buildings.
[54:09.870 --> 54:12.490]  Bernie, you could probably give a better example, a better explanation than that.
[54:12.610 --> 54:13.270]  That's a good example.
[54:13.410 --> 54:16.970]  All the signals all bounce against each other and you get all this multipath distortion.
[54:16.970 --> 54:22.050]  And that's why you have to get to, you have to, to move the transmitter and the antenna somewhere else.
[54:22.190 --> 54:23.910]  You have to get your license changed.
[54:24.110 --> 54:29.630]  The FCC license for WBI says it's a transmitter of this power level on top of the Empire State Building.
[54:29.990 --> 54:30.950]  And that's what it says.
[54:30.950 --> 54:34.690]  If you want any changes to that, you got to go through all these studies and blah, blah, blah.
[54:35.790 --> 54:36.510]  Right, right.
[54:37.010 --> 54:49.830]  Uh, and, uh, and the reason why you have to be so high up is because if you're not high up, you're going to get, uh, an effect known as ghosting, uh, where you get all kinds of static when a building gets in the way, uh, FM is a line of sight and that's a big problem in the city.
[54:49.970 --> 54:52.510]  And New York City is of course our primary broadcast area.
[54:53.030 --> 55:04.230]  So, uh, that's why people need to call 516-620-3602 and, uh, pledge whatever, uh, you can to the WBAI transmitter fund to keep our, our transmitter going.
[55:04.230 --> 55:21.590]  It has, uh, fallen into arrears for a number of reasons, too lengthy to get into on the radio, but, uh, uh, uh, believe me when I say that, uh, we, we, we are in, uh, significant trouble here, uh, uh, possibility of losing the signal, uh, entirely if we can't make those $50,000
[55:21.590 --> 55:24.690]  a month payments to the Empire State Building.
[55:24.990 --> 55:28.430]  Uh, we, we've made some very good progress as a result of, uh, of our listeners.
[55:28.790 --> 55:34.250]  And since we don't have commercials, our listeners are the ones that get us through, uh, our crises like this.
[55:34.350 --> 55:38.070]  So any amount you pledge will go towards that $500,000 that we need to raise.
[55:38.170 --> 55:41.390]  And we're over halfway there, which is an incredible accomplishment.
[55:41.730 --> 55:48.450]  Uh, again, 516-620-3602, keep non-commercial radio in the middle of the FM dial in New York City.
[55:48.550 --> 55:53.690]  And that in itself is an accomplishment, uh, not just being below 92, but being at 99.5.
[55:54.050 --> 56:00.650]  Uh, and, and the result of that is that, uh, people find us by accident and they cannot believe what they're listening to half the time.
[56:00.790 --> 56:02.930]  And they stick around the other half of the time.
[56:02.930 --> 56:04.830]  Um, and, and, and try to find out what's going on.
[56:05.210 --> 56:07.470]  Uh, 516-620-3602.
[56:07.630 --> 56:08.430]  We're out of time.
[56:08.850 --> 56:13.190]  Uh, any, uh, announcements or, uh, uh, bits of information we need to give out this week?
[56:13.410 --> 56:13.590]  No?
[56:14.030 --> 56:14.210]  Nothing?
[56:14.390 --> 56:14.570]  Okay.
[56:14.670 --> 56:20.830]  I guess the, the key bit of information is that the number to, to pledge is 516-620-3602.
[56:20.830 --> 56:24.050]  I thought I just said that, but I guess, uh, it can't be said often enough.
[56:24.210 --> 56:31.890]  Or WBAI, Church Street Station, PO Box 7032, New York, New York, 1008.
[56:32.670 --> 56:33.110]  Right.
[56:33.270 --> 56:33.450]  Okay.
[56:33.630 --> 56:37.250]  And, uh, our email address is OTH at 2600.com.
[56:37.430 --> 56:41.510]  We'd, uh, love to hear from all of our listeners all at the same time, if possible.
[56:41.670 --> 56:44.010]  OTH at 2600.com.
[56:44.270 --> 56:46.930]  Uh, it is, um, the first day of spring.
[56:47.930 --> 56:51.850]  And what better way to go out with something nice and lively and cheerful.
[56:52.650 --> 56:55.570]  And let's try and carry this tune with us the rest of the night.
[56:55.930 --> 56:56.330]  Have a good night.
[56:56.470 --> 56:56.690]  Take care.
[57:04.380 --> 57:08.240]  There's a piercing wintry breeze blowing through the budding trees.
[57:08.300 --> 57:11.600]  And I buttoned up my coat to keep me warm.
[57:12.240 --> 57:16.220]  But the days are on the mend and I'm on the road again.
[57:16.420 --> 57:19.520]  With my fiddle snuggled close beneath my heart.
[57:20.240 --> 57:24.520]  I've a fine felt hat and a strong pair of brogues.
[57:24.520 --> 57:27.400]  I have rosin in my pocket for my bow.
[57:28.380 --> 57:30.300]  And my fiddle strings are new.
[57:30.300 --> 57:32.240]  And I've learned a tune or two.
[57:32.280 --> 57:35.300]  So I'm well prepared to rumble and must go.
[57:36.240 --> 57:40.200]  I'm as happy as a king when I catch a breath of spring.
[57:40.440 --> 57:43.900]  And the grass is turning green as winter ends.
[57:43.900 --> 57:46.140]  And the geese are on the wing.
[57:46.320 --> 57:48.060]  And the twish will start to sing.
[57:48.240 --> 57:51.380]  And I'm headed down the road to see my friends.
[57:51.380 --> 57:56.420]  I've a fine felt hat and a strong pair of brogues.
[57:56.420 --> 57:59.280]  I have rosin in my pocket for my bow.
[58:00.020 --> 58:02.180]  And my fiddle strings are new.
[58:02.220 --> 58:02.800]  And my fiddle strings are new.
[58:02.800 --> 58:04.100]  And I've learned a tune or two.
[58:04.400 --> 58:07.220]  So I'm well prepared to rumble and must go.
[58:07.920 --> 58:10.240]  I have friends in every town.
[58:10.640 --> 58:12.040]  I have friends in every town as I ramble up and down.
[58:12.420 --> 58:15.220]  Making music at the markets and the fairs.
[58:16.140 --> 58:20.080]  Through the donkeys and the freels and the farmers making deals.
[58:20.260 --> 58:23.220]  And the yellow-headed tinkered selling wares.
[58:23.220 --> 58:28.140]  I have a fine felt hat and a strong pair of brogues.
[58:28.240 --> 58:31.080]  I have rosin in my pocket for my bow.
[58:32.020 --> 58:33.980]  And my fiddle strings are new.
[58:33.980 --> 58:35.940]  And I've learned a tune or two.
[58:36.120 --> 58:39.020]  So I'm well prepared to rumble and must go.
[58:40.080 --> 58:42.140]  Here's a hand to one and all.
[58:42.300 --> 58:43.980]  To the big and to the small.
[58:44.220 --> 58:47.080]  To the rich and poor alike and poor and friend.
[58:47.980 --> 58:51.980]  And when we return again, may our foes have turned to friends.
[58:52.180 --> 58:55.240]  And may peace and joy be with you until then.
[58:56.020 --> 59:00.100]  I have a fine felt hat and a strong pair of brogues.
[59:00.180 --> 59:03.000]  I have rosin in my pocket for my bow.
[59:03.800 --> 59:05.920]  And my fiddle strings are new.
[59:05.920 --> 59:07.840]  And I've learned a tune or two.
[59:08.080 --> 59:10.860]  So I'm well prepared to rumble and must go.
[59:11.900 --> 59:16.120]  I have a fine felt hat and a strong pair of brogues.
[59:16.140 --> 59:18.940]  I have rosin in my pocket for my bow.
[59:19.840 --> 59:21.940]  And my fiddle strings are new.
[59:22.200 --> 59:23.920]  And I've learned a tune or two.
[59:24.160 --> 59:27.080]  So I'm well prepared to rumble and must go.
[59:34.170 --> 59:39.330]  Ooh, if there's one thing I love, it's that kind of music.
[59:40.150 --> 59:41.130]  I love that.
[59:41.230 --> 59:46.150]  They sound like they have a little bit of an Irish brogue, but it sounds like it is a southern thing.
[59:46.910 --> 59:47.770]  What's going on?
[59:47.850 --> 59:48.530]  It's Irish.
[59:48.770 --> 59:49.790]  It's Irish as you can get.
[59:49.850 --> 59:51.230]  As Irish as you can get.
[59:51.370 --> 59:57.330]  Well, I think you can only be, there's nothing as more Irish than Barack Obama.
[59:58.370 --> 59:59.570]  Not quite that Irish.
[59:59.570 --> 01:00:00.910]  Right.
[01:00:01.550 --> 01:00:04.430]  The Barack Obama Irish.