[00:02.720 --> 00:05.140]  The crops are all in.
[00:05.580 --> 00:07.780]  The beaches are rotting.
[00:09.320 --> 00:11.720]  The oranges are piled in.
[00:11.720 --> 00:14.960]  And that's some of the news for Wednesday, April 10, 2013.
[00:15.560 --> 00:21.040]  The news was produced in New York by Jose Santiago, Rebecca Miles, Linda Perry, and Lucas Reckhouse.
[00:21.380 --> 00:26.220]  I'm Andrea Sears in New York for the WBAI, listener-supported news.
[00:33.440 --> 00:35.750]  And you're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:35.930 --> 00:37.260]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[00:37.400 --> 00:39.020]  Time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:44.250 --> 00:46.090]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:46.510 --> 00:48.650]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:49.690 --> 00:51.630]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:52.210 --> 00:54.130]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:54.850 --> 00:56.990]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:59.760 --> 01:02.420]  Bum-diddly-bum for the best, expect the worst.
[01:03.080 --> 01:04.920]  I hope that's understood.
[01:05.140 --> 01:05.920]  Bum-diddly-bum!
[02:18.250 --> 02:19.670]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:19.750 --> 02:20.530]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:20.610 --> 02:23.310]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:23.410 --> 02:23.770]  Firefly.
[02:23.950 --> 02:24.390]  Good evening.
[02:24.390 --> 02:25.010]  And Mike.
[02:25.190 --> 02:25.570]  Hello.
[02:26.350 --> 02:29.910]  And in Philadelphia or Pennsylvania or someplace like that, Bernie S.
[02:30.510 --> 02:31.670]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:31.930 --> 02:32.190]  Okay.
[02:32.510 --> 02:32.850]  Great.
[02:33.710 --> 02:35.930]  Well, I hate spring.
[02:36.050 --> 02:36.590]  I really do.
[02:37.130 --> 02:38.050]  No, spring is here.
[02:38.210 --> 02:38.570]  Yeah, spring is here.
[02:38.570 --> 02:38.730]  Really?
[02:38.870 --> 02:39.970]  This is what you're going to complain about?
[02:39.990 --> 02:48.510]  I'm going to complain about flowers coming up and plants and animals running around and kids in playgrounds and people wearing summer clothing and everyone's got a spring in their step.
[02:48.610 --> 02:50.090]  Yeah, I can't stand it.
[02:50.210 --> 02:52.910]  I came up on the west side.
[02:53.030 --> 02:53.890]  There were cherry blossoms.
[02:53.890 --> 02:55.610]  It was very nice and you would...
[02:55.610 --> 02:55.610]  Oh, God.
[02:55.610 --> 02:56.210]  It makes me sick.
[02:56.770 --> 02:58.850]  It makes me sick as well, actually, quite literally.
[02:59.030 --> 03:01.870]  No, I mean, I mean, yeah, physically, but also just mentally.
[03:02.070 --> 03:04.230]  I mean, come on, just going through the same dance all over again.
[03:04.230 --> 03:05.010]  It's so boring.
[03:05.010 --> 03:09.130]  Well, I'm just feeling cheated because we didn't actually get a proper winter.
[03:09.490 --> 03:11.210]  Well, we got three feet of snow on Long Island.
[03:11.330 --> 03:15.490]  I don't know what you got over here, but in fact, I even saw snow yesterday that was still on the ground.
[03:15.750 --> 03:19.310]  Believe it or not, it hadn't yet melted, even with all these crazy temperatures.
[03:19.810 --> 03:23.510]  We have like one week of nice weather a year before it gets too hot.
[03:23.510 --> 03:23.610]  And that's the other thing.
[03:23.670 --> 03:25.170]  How dare you call this nice?
[03:25.350 --> 03:28.310]  I mean, nice is, it's a subjective term, all right?
[03:28.390 --> 03:31.630]  I think nice is called brutal winds, all right?
[03:31.630 --> 03:32.350]  I like that.
[03:35.010 --> 03:37.390]  It's the wrong way, but you should really go to hell if that's here.
[03:37.610 --> 03:38.410]  I've been to hell.
[03:38.510 --> 03:40.890]  I've been to hell in Norway, and thank you very much.
[03:40.930 --> 03:41.750]  It's a nice place.
[03:42.390 --> 03:44.450]  But I think we actually get colder sometimes.
[03:45.130 --> 03:50.230]  And may I say, if you don't like it here in the wintertime, you should go to Florida.
[03:50.430 --> 03:51.030]  I'm sorry.
[03:51.070 --> 03:52.470]  That's a really nasty thing to say.
[03:52.630 --> 03:53.050]  That's mean.
[03:54.190 --> 03:54.710]  All right.
[03:54.850 --> 03:57.070]  Well, let's spend the whole hour talking about this.
[03:57.630 --> 03:58.650]  But yeah.
[03:59.950 --> 04:02.090]  That's why I like New York, because we have different temperatures.
[04:02.450 --> 04:07.290]  And it'll get awfully hot, and it'll get awfully cold, and we'll have hurricanes, we'll have blizzards, and all sorts of things like that.
[04:07.350 --> 04:08.950]  And the radio station will move all the way uptown.
[04:09.110 --> 04:10.450]  And change.
[04:10.630 --> 04:11.930]  Change is a good thing.
[04:12.050 --> 04:12.810]  Change is in the air.
[04:13.170 --> 04:13.990]  Change is always in the air.
[04:14.150 --> 04:15.150]  Change is the only constant.
[04:15.370 --> 04:22.650]  Well, I don't think we're at war yet with North Korea, but the way the media is portraying the story, it could happen at any moment.
[04:23.090 --> 04:23.770]  It's ridiculous.
[04:23.970 --> 04:24.930]  It's a whole silly thing.
[04:25.030 --> 04:28.950]  And I'm sure it'll just be history in another couple of weeks.
[04:29.110 --> 04:32.910]  But it has not stopped Anonymous from getting involved.
[04:32.910 --> 04:34.330]  According to the media, anyway.
[04:34.610 --> 04:35.430]  Take this for what it's worth.
[04:35.650 --> 04:42.850]  A group of hacktivists claim to have infiltrated North Korea's hermetically sealed intranet.
[04:43.190 --> 04:44.890]  And they have certain demands.
[04:45.230 --> 04:51.910]  And of course, you probably know about all the tenseness that's been going on with North Korea basically threatening everybody with everything.
[04:53.590 --> 04:58.370]  It's kind of humorous to watch because I think they're just playing us for fools.
[04:59.210 --> 05:06.470]  So basically, what happened was Anonymous Korea, that's the name of this supposed hacktivist collective.
[05:07.210 --> 05:16.630]  They say they took down several North Korean websites, including Pyongyang's main external propaganda and news site, by hitting them with distributed denial of service attacks.
[05:16.630 --> 05:29.790]  They also claim to have hacked North Korean government sites, offering the confidential user records of six of the 15,000 accounts it claims to have swiped from urimnizukkori.com.
[05:29.830 --> 05:36.870]  That's spelled U-R-I-M-I-N-Z-O-K-K-I-R-I dot com, which is a government site.
[05:36.890 --> 05:38.010]  But it's hosted in China.
[05:38.010 --> 05:43.050]  It's not actually in North Korea because I don't believe North Korea actually has a direct connection to the Internet.
[05:43.050 --> 05:44.130]  I have yet to find one.
[05:44.810 --> 05:49.950]  The North Korean government is increasingly becoming a threat to peace and freedom, said the anonymous...
[05:49.950 --> 05:51.370]  This is what the story actually says.
[05:51.410 --> 05:53.030]  The anonymous anonymous users.
[05:53.210 --> 05:54.810]  The first anonymous is not capitalized.
[05:54.910 --> 05:55.690]  The second one is.
[05:56.170 --> 05:58.070]  So yeah, anonymous users are anonymous.
[05:59.450 --> 06:00.290]  Well, it's true.
[06:00.430 --> 06:01.550]  You need the media to tell you that.
[06:03.250 --> 06:04.410]  They wrote the statement.
[06:04.570 --> 06:08.850]  They posted it at Pastebin, which is a place to post things like that.
[06:09.470 --> 06:15.490]  They noted that the USA is a threat to world peace too, but they listed their demands and none of them had to do with the USA.
[06:16.050 --> 06:20.590]  The demands are, get ready, North Korean government must stop making nukes and nuke threats.
[06:21.090 --> 06:22.650]  Kim Jong-un has to resign.
[06:22.650 --> 06:25.650]  It's time to install a free direct democracy in North Korea.
[06:26.190 --> 06:28.190]  Uncensored Internet access for all the citizens.
[06:28.350 --> 06:29.670]  And there are some warnings too.
[06:29.670 --> 06:34.890]  To Kim Jong-un, so you feel the need to create large nukes and threaten half the world with them?
[06:34.990 --> 06:36.590]  So you're into demonstrations of power?
[06:36.750 --> 06:37.430]  Here is ours.
[06:37.630 --> 06:39.650]  We are inside your local intranets.
[06:40.410 --> 06:45.370]  Kwan Myung, that's spelled K-W-A-N-G-M-Y-O-N-G, and others.
[06:45.610 --> 06:47.250]  We are inside your mail servers.
[06:47.370 --> 06:49.110]  We are inside your web servers.
[06:50.150 --> 06:55.830]  Anonymous Korea ends the basic statement with, first, we're going to wipe your data.
[06:55.970 --> 06:59.210]  Then we're going to wipe your badass dictatorship government.
[07:01.450 --> 07:04.430]  Well, if that doesn't stop them, nothing will.
[07:05.190 --> 07:11.230]  You know, this is sort of what I think the media doesn't get, is that basically anybody can do this.
[07:11.430 --> 07:16.330]  Anybody can make these flowery statements, whether it be the North Korean government or a bunch of anonymous people on the Internet.
[07:17.050 --> 07:19.350]  And they represent nobody but themselves.
[07:19.570 --> 07:26.470]  You don't really know who they are, how many people are behind them, or if it's even possible for them to do the things that they say they're going to do.
[07:26.470 --> 07:32.590]  Yet, when it's reported in the media, it's front-page news, like this is something that is official.
[07:33.070 --> 07:37.590]  And it hasn't even been proven that anyone has gotten into anything.
[07:37.710 --> 07:45.550]  Now, the Internet I mentioned, which is Kwang Myung, it's a North Korean intranet that was established in the year 2000.
[07:45.910 --> 07:48.270]  It operates just like the real Internet.
[07:48.510 --> 07:51.870]  Users use web browsers to surf pages and send emails.
[07:51.870 --> 07:58.530]  You've probably even seen pictures of people in rooms in North Korea, students at universities, using computers.
[07:58.530 --> 07:59.790]  And you might wonder what they're doing.
[07:59.950 --> 08:03.150]  Are they going to Amazon or CNN or things like that?
[08:03.190 --> 08:03.630]  No, they're not.
[08:03.730 --> 08:06.130]  They're pretty much staying inside their own country.
[08:06.590 --> 08:11.390]  It's completely disconnected from the actual Internet as a security control.
[08:12.330 --> 08:21.290]  And content from the Internet appears on the Kwang Myung network if it has been selected, inspected, and approved by North Korean censors.
[08:21.290 --> 08:25.010]  And there's certainly no way to connect to it from outside North Korea, at least.
[08:25.130 --> 08:26.210]  That is the belief.
[08:26.910 --> 08:31.690]  Now, according to various experts, the anonymous claims seem dubious at best.
[08:31.690 --> 08:43.810]  First, accessing Kwang Myung is not theoretically impossible if the group somehow snuck some code past the censors who scan and scrub content from the World Wide Web before reposting it to Kwang Myung.
[08:43.950 --> 08:51.330]  Or perhaps infecting the computers of the lucky few North Korean officials with access to both the country's intranet and the real Internet.
[08:51.330 --> 08:56.550]  Now, apparently, there is some kind of appointment.
[08:56.670 --> 09:08.430]  The next activity for the anonymous Pound Op-Free Korea campaign, or hashtag, I should say, Op-Free Korea campaign, is slated as happening on April 19th.
[09:08.570 --> 09:15.810]  So because they've mentioned that date, that's the date we have to look forward to to see if they've actually accessed more North Korean sites.
[09:16.930 --> 09:18.250]  So, I mean, so here's the thing.
[09:18.430 --> 09:26.070]  Even taking all the claims at face value, nuclear weapons are a lot more terrifying than I'm in your mail server.
[09:26.830 --> 09:28.310]  Well, you don't know what's in the mail server.
[09:28.390 --> 09:29.350]  But yeah, you're probably right.
[09:29.450 --> 09:29.950]  Probably right.
[09:30.190 --> 09:36.210]  I mean, and of course, I want to be clear that the country with the most nuclear weapons is the one that we live in.
[09:36.210 --> 09:47.010]  But I just don't see, I don't see like, we're in your mail server, therefore, therefore, you should get rid of your nuclear weapon just doesn't seem like a very compelling argument to me.
[09:47.010 --> 09:49.290]  Well, now, pretend that you're 13.
[09:50.350 --> 09:56.590]  Maybe if you say something like that with all kinds of bravado and a bunch of your friends, you might think that people will take you seriously.
[09:56.930 --> 09:58.710]  You know, it's, it's entirely positive.
[09:58.710 --> 10:01.170]  And I'm not, I'm not saying that this is necessarily the case.
[10:01.510 --> 10:07.770]  It could be all kinds of people behind this, people with actual feet planted in reality.
[10:08.250 --> 10:11.710]  But it just seems to me that it's a, it's a, it's a bunch of posturing.
[10:11.830 --> 10:23.870]  And I don't see it really resulting in much as constructive, unlike the Arab Spring, where certain statements, proclamations, and invasions of computer systems resulted in quite a bit of positive activity.
[10:24.410 --> 10:28.310]  So, I'm just not sure when you don't actually have a connection to the internet, how much you can actually do.
[10:28.710 --> 10:33.150]  I mean, the difference there is, of course, the size of the mass movement, which...
[10:33.150 --> 10:36.910]  Yeah, and of course, there doesn't seem to be a movement in North Korea at the moment.
[10:37.090 --> 10:39.230]  But, you know, it's always nice to reach people.
[10:39.350 --> 10:41.450]  It's always nice to be able to communicate with them.
[10:41.510 --> 10:43.930]  And right now, I don't see a lot of that on either side.
[10:45.450 --> 10:47.370]  Bernie, I'm expecting you to chime in, but I guess you're not.
[10:47.510 --> 10:55.870]  Oh, well, around the borders, I do think there is some communication going on, at least inward to North Korea.
[10:56.470 --> 11:10.430]  They try very hard to pick up Korean television, South Korean television broadcasts, which the North Koreans do try to jam, but a lot of stuff gets through anyway.
[11:10.890 --> 11:16.370]  And there's also a big black market of DVDs in North Korea.
[11:16.570 --> 11:16.990]  Okay.
[11:16.990 --> 11:20.330]  You know, Western DVDs, and probably Eastern DVDs.
[11:21.470 --> 11:34.630]  So, information is trickling in, but I doubt very much very many, except the most privileged North Koreans, have access to the wider Internet or interwebs.
[11:34.810 --> 11:44.750]  And I think this anonymous stuff is probably about as reliable as any blog who you don't know who wrote it.
[11:44.750 --> 11:45.890]  Right, right, exactly.
[11:46.790 --> 11:50.330]  Please, Bernie, never say interwebs again on this show.
[11:50.470 --> 11:50.870]  Thank you very much.
[11:51.790 --> 12:00.630]  But, yeah, you have to take all this with a big grain of salt, because nobody really knows a lot of what's going on.
[12:01.750 --> 12:03.990]  Most people don't even know the top-level domain of North Korea.
[12:04.270 --> 12:05.110]  Does anybody here know?
[12:05.330 --> 12:06.310]  Is it KP?
[12:06.570 --> 12:07.430]  It is KP, you're right.
[12:07.670 --> 12:08.110]  You're right.
[12:08.110 --> 12:19.490]  Yes, but good luck finding a site that actually goes to .kp and is actually in the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea, which is what it's known as.
[12:20.650 --> 12:36.230]  Okay, so staying with the anonymous theme for a moment, a British man has pleaded guilty to his involvement in cyber attacks launched by Lulsec, which, you might recall, is an internet hacker group that, in 2011, targeted the websites of Sony, the FBI,
[12:36.610 --> 12:38.590]  CIA, PBS, and others.
[12:38.890 --> 12:41.030]  I love how PBS just finds its way in there.
[12:41.770 --> 12:54.130]  Ryan Aykroyd, who was otherwise known as Kayla, among hackers, admitted yesterday to one count of carrying out an unauthorized act to impair the operation of a computer.
[12:54.130 --> 13:02.850]  He joins Mustafa al-Bassam, Jake Davis, and Ryan Cleary, who has members of the group pleaded guilty to the 2011 cyber attacks.
[13:03.410 --> 13:11.390]  According to tech news site Ars Technica, the four hackers will be sentenced May 14th by London's Southwark Crown Court.
[13:11.410 --> 13:15.210]  They face a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison.
[13:15.370 --> 13:22.510]  Now, as you might know, Lulsec rose to prominence in the summer of 2011 after attacking numerous high-profile companies and organizations.
[13:23.110 --> 13:29.550]  They targeted websites, computer systems of, as we mentioned, CIA, FBI, PBS, Sony, also the U.S.
[13:29.670 --> 13:37.130]  Senate, the Arizona Department of Public Safety, a British police agency, Nintendo, as well as porn and video game companies.
[13:37.310 --> 13:38.590]  They were pretty much all over the place.
[13:39.250 --> 13:48.510]  Among its most notable attacks, and this is something serious, there's something funny about this, Lulsec posted a story on the PBS website that said rappers Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls were still alive.
[13:49.010 --> 13:50.410]  Got a lot of people's hopes up.
[13:50.410 --> 13:54.350]  The group also hacked the accounts of several thousand Sony Pictures users.
[13:55.370 --> 14:02.670]  And for those who don't know, the name comes from LOL, which is internet slang for laugh out loud, and the word security.
[14:03.170 --> 14:06.090]  And they ceased the cyber attacks after a few months.
[14:06.570 --> 14:11.350]  They say they launched the attacks to point out flaws in the targeted organization's security.
[14:12.010 --> 14:17.030]  During its attacks, the group also infiltrated the systems of government organizations and leaked their documents.
[14:17.030 --> 14:21.670]  I think that's worthy of more than one sentence, because that's kind of really, really important.
[14:22.550 --> 14:31.310]  And shortly after those arrests began, the FBI disclosed that one of the group's leaders, who went by the online name of Sabu, was actually a government informant.
[14:31.390 --> 14:33.410]  You have to wonder why they did that.
[14:33.510 --> 14:36.070]  Why did they release that information at that particular point?
[14:36.150 --> 14:41.710]  It's unusual for the FBI to do something like that, to simply say, oh yeah, by the way, this guy is an informer.
[14:42.470 --> 14:44.390]  So there's a bigger game going on here.
[14:44.470 --> 14:49.130]  But the question I have, what is the actual...
[14:49.130 --> 14:53.710]  I know it was a pain in the ass for these companies, and for some users and things like that.
[14:53.790 --> 15:05.750]  But looking at 10 years in prison for this, which is basically an act of vandalism, I think at worst, were there really victims here, people that suffered as a result?
[15:05.750 --> 15:07.630]  Yeah, it was a pain, like I said, a pain in the ass.
[15:07.710 --> 15:13.030]  People had to reconstruct websites and fix problems that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
[15:13.610 --> 15:15.630]  Is it worth sending people to jail for a decade?
[15:16.710 --> 15:21.630]  I mean, so we do have to be careful that the 10 years is the maximum sentence that hasn't yet been imposed.
[15:21.770 --> 15:27.890]  But no, it's not worth sending people to jail for a decade for some silly pranks.
[15:28.210 --> 15:43.490]  Well, you see, the real fallout from all of this is not the damage that they actually caused at the time, but the long-term damage to the reputations of entities with money that would like more money and would like their reputations to maybe stay a bit more solid.
[15:43.710 --> 15:54.970]  So, you know, you expose security flaws in a company like Sony that has a tidy business in online accounts, gaming, that sort of thing, and you've damaged them in the eyes of people who care about such things.
[15:55.770 --> 15:56.210]  Really?
[15:56.930 --> 15:58.470]  You're going to say that with a straight face?
[15:58.890 --> 15:59.910]  Not that straight.
[15:59.910 --> 15:59.910]  Right.
[16:00.190 --> 16:00.710]  Okay.
[16:00.930 --> 16:02.910]  Well, I suppose.
[16:02.930 --> 16:10.530]  But I don't think their reputations are saved much by basically doing this, by sending people to prison.
[16:11.430 --> 16:16.970]  I think what we really learn from this is that so-called anonymous actions aren't that anonymous.
[16:17.170 --> 16:19.590]  It's always possible to be traced one way or another.
[16:19.830 --> 16:21.870]  Well, we only hear about the ones who are traced.
[16:21.870 --> 16:23.190]  Well, yeah, we do.
[16:23.330 --> 16:23.910]  That's enough.
[16:24.130 --> 16:27.070]  You know, if somebody is caught, that means somebody else could be caught.
[16:27.750 --> 16:35.090]  And it's very rare that I hear of people that aren't caught, that are wanted, that have some kind of reputation.
[16:35.190 --> 16:38.190]  It's also a warning against gaining a reputation in the first place.
[16:38.410 --> 16:48.770]  The best defense is to remain anonymous, to not be a leader, to not be a name, and to be one of a vast horde of people that is out there pretty much working for the same goal.
[16:49.430 --> 16:52.290]  So that's the real strength of the anonymous movement.
[16:52.530 --> 16:59.210]  Yeah, that does show the strength of anonymous versus something like LulzSec, which became about them and about this particular group accomplishing these particular things.
[16:59.270 --> 17:07.990]  And they were sort of reveling in the attention versus something like anonymous, which despite the fact that the mainstream media still doesn't seem to have picked this up, is not a particular group.
[17:08.150 --> 17:10.470]  It's just this big banner that anybody can do anything underneath.
[17:10.730 --> 17:15.230]  And it doesn't have any actual leadership or goals in that sense.
[17:15.310 --> 17:21.010]  So yeah, if you're anonymous, you're part of this amorphous blob that not even the people who are coming after you seem to understand.
[17:22.170 --> 17:22.730]  All right.
[17:23.030 --> 17:25.670]  Well, that's what's going on as far as all that goes.
[17:26.030 --> 17:28.290]  Always interesting to follow these things.
[17:29.110 --> 17:32.430]  Some updates from last week.
[17:32.570 --> 17:35.390]  We were talking about the company Aereo.
[17:35.770 --> 17:39.370]  Oh, first of all, I guess I should point out, what time did Mike pick up his phone last week?
[17:39.470 --> 17:40.210]  We were talking about this.
[17:41.150 --> 17:43.410]  Try not to... Do you get an exact time, Rob?
[17:43.730 --> 17:44.970]  I don't recall the exact time.
[17:44.970 --> 17:46.650]  It was later than I thought it would be.
[17:46.770 --> 17:47.510]  I'll put it that way.
[17:47.550 --> 17:48.350]  I was impressed.
[17:48.370 --> 17:51.790]  And we stayed away from our phones pretty much for the whole night, which is good.
[17:51.890 --> 17:52.750]  It shows that it can be done.
[17:53.070 --> 17:56.010]  But on the way up here, I got to say, I was stuck behind so many zombies.
[17:56.130 --> 18:05.030]  Zombies are people that are staring at their phone as they're walking down the street because they're texting or that have headphones in their ears attached to their phone and don't see anything and walk out into traffic.
[18:05.370 --> 18:06.950]  I saw at least seven people like that today.
[18:07.130 --> 18:08.110]  Just on the way up here.
[18:08.370 --> 18:09.050]  It's ridiculous.
[18:10.170 --> 18:12.610]  If we don't have our headphones in, how are we going to receive our instructions?
[18:13.490 --> 18:13.890]  Yeah.
[18:14.190 --> 18:14.370]  Right.
[18:14.510 --> 18:14.750]  Exactly.
[18:15.410 --> 18:15.750]  Yeah.
[18:15.750 --> 18:17.310]  I just wonder where we're going to be in 10 years.
[18:17.410 --> 18:17.830]  I really do.
[18:18.630 --> 18:19.030]  Okay.
[18:19.110 --> 18:23.730]  But an update to last week's story concerning a company called Aereo.
[18:24.750 --> 18:26.450]  So they're really upset.
[18:27.190 --> 18:31.430]  Just to recap, Bernie, do you have the facts of the story?
[18:32.590 --> 18:32.990]  Yeah.
[18:33.210 --> 18:34.150]  What Aereo...
[18:34.150 --> 18:34.810]  Are you talking about last week?
[18:34.870 --> 18:35.030]  Yeah.
[18:35.110 --> 18:35.730]  What we did last week.
[18:35.730 --> 18:36.590]  Yeah.
[18:38.670 --> 18:57.750]  Basically, it's a company in New York that has banks and banks of tiny TV antennas on a big warehouse rooftop that are connected to TV receivers that then stream video that you can rent for about $8 a month.
[18:57.930 --> 19:06.430]  And you can rent them and watch New York television channels anywhere in the world over the internet for about $8 a month.
[19:06.670 --> 19:12.050]  And the broadcasters are up in arms and suing that, oh, you're stealing from us.
[19:12.210 --> 19:16.530]  And they basically were supported in court.
[19:16.730 --> 19:19.250]  The ruling came down saying that this was not illegal.
[19:20.110 --> 19:29.290]  And our question was, how is it illegal to rebroadcast free TV in different... don't they benefit from this?
[19:29.450 --> 19:31.970]  They have their advertising in different parts of the country.
[19:32.110 --> 19:48.430]  Well, this week, we heard that Fox is so angry at this that they're threatening to go off the air and just go cable so that people have to pay for the service and they will not broadcast their television shows over the air.
[19:48.750 --> 19:56.230]  This is how insane they are, that they actually feel that threatened by people watching their programs from different markets.
[19:56.490 --> 19:58.190]  I mean, who is running these corporations?
[19:58.430 --> 19:59.130]  What are they thinking?
[19:59.450 --> 20:00.950]  Can we clarify one thing?
[20:01.170 --> 20:06.110]  That the way the aerial service works, you have to be in New York to use the service.
[20:06.250 --> 20:07.770]  And I don't know exactly how it's enforced.
[20:07.910 --> 20:09.370]  I don't know if you can sign up in New York.
[20:09.650 --> 20:10.190]  Well, well, well.
[20:10.250 --> 20:13.450]  The whole point of this, I thought, was to be able to watch it from outside the region.
[20:13.650 --> 20:14.030]  No, no, no.
[20:14.970 --> 20:17.130]  You have to be in... I don't know exactly how it works.
[20:17.130 --> 20:21.450]  I don't know if you can sign up in New York and then go on vacation and still use the service.
[20:21.710 --> 20:26.310]  But the service This is billed as only available to people in the New York area.
[20:26.430 --> 20:27.150]  What's the point then?
[20:27.190 --> 20:28.890]  You can pick up the signal anyway then.
[20:29.270 --> 20:30.550]  I don't know what the point is.
[20:31.430 --> 20:35.190]  The point is to use all the fancy extra features like DVR and stuff like that.
[20:35.910 --> 20:37.770]  So this really doesn't serve any purpose.
[20:37.910 --> 20:39.750]  And I can see that's worth...
[20:39.750 --> 20:48.670]  They haven't even gotten to the point of time shifting, of having things from out of market like they do in Canada where you can watch things in different cities at any time.
[20:48.670 --> 20:49.870]  They have the time shifting.
[20:49.970 --> 20:51.310]  They don't have the space shifting.
[20:51.310 --> 20:51.910]  Okay.
[20:52.290 --> 20:52.550]  Yeah.
[20:53.010 --> 20:53.710]  Well, okay.
[20:53.790 --> 20:54.290]  That's interesting.
[20:54.450 --> 21:01.190]  But Fox's reaction just shows how out of step these entities are with reality.
[21:03.130 --> 21:07.830]  And we have to ask ourselves, why would this be a bad thing for them especially?
[21:08.010 --> 21:10.710]  It would be a good thing for consumers who want to be able to see things.
[21:10.750 --> 21:12.750]  What if I want to watch the news in a different city?
[21:12.890 --> 21:13.710]  Why is that illegal?
[21:13.770 --> 21:15.330]  What if I want to see advertising in a different city?
[21:15.350 --> 21:16.090]  I wouldn't want to do that.
[21:16.190 --> 21:22.210]  But it shouldn't be something that has legal force behind it, that you're not allowed to do.
[21:22.310 --> 21:23.870]  It's really insane.
[21:24.170 --> 21:26.150]  We've got a couple of letters on this too, which I'd like to get to.
[21:26.230 --> 21:26.750]  But Rob, go ahead.
[21:26.990 --> 21:27.190]  Yeah.
[21:27.270 --> 21:31.970]  The funny thing about this whole issue is that it's perfectly fine to set up this sort of thing for yourself.
[21:32.090 --> 21:40.490]  There's a product called the Slingbox, which you can connect to your TV and then connect to that from elsewhere if you're on vacation or something and watch your own TV signals.
[21:40.590 --> 21:43.210]  It will forward it on to you wherever you are.
[21:43.370 --> 21:47.310]  And there are open source type things, I think, that accomplish the same thing.
[21:47.310 --> 21:51.830]  So you can go out and buy one of these boxes in a store and it's fine.
[21:51.890 --> 21:58.410]  But some company wants to sell you the service, the same service that you would be getting if you had one of these boxes and people are upset with it now.
[21:59.370 --> 22:00.010]  Very weird.
[22:00.170 --> 22:00.350]  Okay.
[22:00.670 --> 22:02.770]  Here's one of the letters that we got.
[22:02.890 --> 22:05.950]  I found your discussion about rebroadcasting and pirating interesting.
[22:06.390 --> 22:11.110]  And I think you really do know the answer as to why more content from corporations isn't shared.
[22:11.210 --> 22:17.370]  Of course, as you know, it's about controlling the content, maintaining and asserting their rights over the content as well as agreement on distribution.
[22:17.670 --> 22:19.510]  They are not as free thinking as you.
[22:19.750 --> 22:25.490]  And for whatever reason, they are unwilling or unable to share their content to grow their audience and fans.
[22:25.630 --> 22:28.210]  Perhaps you already knew this, but I thought I would share.
[22:28.330 --> 22:30.290]  Thank you, Bob, for that letter.
[22:30.510 --> 22:31.690]  And yeah, that's what it's all about.
[22:33.470 --> 22:38.330]  It's just basically controlling their quote-unquote rights to content.
[22:38.330 --> 22:59.550]  And if you want to get a good lesson on that, try posting something to YouTube that has anything whatsoever that was heard someplace else, like maybe a snippet of a song from a passing car or something that you have a couple of seconds from a television set that's on the background.
[22:59.750 --> 23:01.950]  And Google is all over this.
[23:02.050 --> 23:05.990]  They will jump on it and send you a notice saying, this does not belong to you.
[23:06.050 --> 23:07.730]  This belongs to this corporation here.
[23:08.330 --> 23:16.710]  And, you know, it's gotten insane where basically you have to filter out every single sound because they are claiming they own it.
[23:16.830 --> 23:19.790]  They own every single thing that has ever been recorded.
[23:20.330 --> 23:26.370]  It got to the point, you know, we're posting our Hope videos and our own talks.
[23:26.490 --> 23:30.710]  Like when Jello gave a talk at one of the Hope conferences, it was later used on a record.
[23:30.810 --> 23:35.710]  Well, that record company says, well, that belongs to us, even though we're the ones who hosted it in the first place.
[23:36.070 --> 23:38.230]  And there is simply no way to get past that.
[23:38.330 --> 23:39.310]  Because that is how it...
[23:39.310 --> 23:40.310]  We're not talking to people.
[23:40.430 --> 23:41.170]  We're talking to computers.
[23:41.950 --> 23:44.830]  And they simply know of no way to say yes.
[23:45.690 --> 23:49.770]  Obviously, it was something that everybody agreed to, that this would be online.
[23:50.070 --> 23:51.890]  And no, it just...
[23:51.890 --> 23:53.130]  It doesn't work that way.
[23:53.350 --> 23:56.390]  When you go down that road, there is no turning back.
[23:56.630 --> 23:58.450]  And it's very sad and scary.
[23:58.610 --> 23:59.330]  Here's another letter.
[23:59.590 --> 24:03.690]  There's a reason why some stations are keen on keeping their signal confined to their area.
[24:03.690 --> 24:06.270]  And this is regional TV licensing.
[24:06.630 --> 24:15.830]  Until the late 1990s, the country of Austria had two national TV stations known as ORF1 and ORF4.
[24:16.070 --> 24:16.730]  No, two.
[24:16.890 --> 24:17.370]  I'm sorry.
[24:17.950 --> 24:27.930]  The national broadcaster ORF had at least one transmitter called Sender Geisberg near the border, which happened to have some overspill towards Germany.
[24:28.450 --> 24:36.870]  The southern part of Bavaria was blessed with decent reception of at least ORF1, which was transmitted as VHF Channel 8.
[24:37.330 --> 24:42.010]  Since Austria was a separate country, rights to movies were sold independently in Germany and Austria.
[24:42.290 --> 24:46.730]  So the same movie would typically premiere in both Germany and Austria at the same time.
[24:46.890 --> 24:47.730]  So what's the problem?
[24:47.950 --> 24:53.230]  ORF was, and still is, a public TV station, so they only have very limited amounts of commercials.
[24:53.390 --> 24:58.270]  While in Germany, the same movie would be shown on a commercial station, which did have commercial breaks.
[24:58.270 --> 25:00.330]  So people prefer to watch it on ORF.
[25:00.510 --> 25:09.490]  The German commercial stations threatened the ORF to also buy the broadcast rights for Austria unless they turned down their power towards Germany.
[25:09.970 --> 25:13.250]  The ORF caved in and reduced their power on Geisberg.
[25:13.490 --> 25:29.110]  And I still remember the headline in our local paper saying, Schnee in Baywatch, which means snow on Baywatch, referring to the increased video noise in the picture, making it nearly impossible to watch it in many areas because Baywatch was the number one thing that people wanted to see.
[25:29.450 --> 25:31.730]  Now, the BBC probably has similar fears.
[25:32.030 --> 25:34.670]  They currently have what is called a spot beam.
[25:34.770 --> 25:41.990]  They send their signal via satellite towards the UK, but there too, there's quite some overspill making it possible to watch their channels in much of Germany.
[25:42.290 --> 25:42.770]  Oh, the horror.
[25:42.990 --> 25:50.590]  Of course, they show great TV series and movies all commercial-free and all in their original language and without annoying bugs on the screen either, I might point out.
[25:51.090 --> 25:54.350]  However, they often only have the rights to air this in the UK.
[25:54.350 --> 26:06.910]  And obviously, if UK reception is widespread, most German commercial stations would go bankrupt and most public stations would be stormed by an angry mob of people seeing that television can be done much better, demanding better programming.
[26:07.070 --> 26:11.410]  So that's it in a nutshell why some TV stations are afraid of putting their signal out of their region.
[26:11.870 --> 26:19.370]  Unfortunately, there are no great counter-examples like Cartoon Network Europe left, which tried to just do things differently, providing one multilingual program for all of Europe.
[26:19.710 --> 26:20.570]  Signed, Cassandra.
[26:20.710 --> 26:22.790]  Cassandra, thank you very much for that informative letter.
[26:22.790 --> 26:26.430]  The thing is, what's different is that we're talking about things within the same country.
[26:26.670 --> 26:30.830]  You know, it's not like we're battling Mexico on this or something like that.
[26:32.150 --> 26:33.670]  It's the same country.
[26:33.870 --> 26:37.830]  It's really pretty silly and ridiculous and indicative of greed as well.
[26:38.050 --> 26:51.650]  Yeah, I mean, I do want to say that's a pretty good explanation of why the broadcasters might care, but it is not, and it was not intended to be, an explanation for why we should care what the broadcasters care about.
[26:52.470 --> 27:07.370]  These licensing agreements and the copyright system in general are supposed to be a compromise where the producers are incentivized to create content and in exchange we give them, you know, certain limited rights to that content for limited periods of time.
[27:07.710 --> 27:12.250]  But that's supposed to be a bargain that we negotiate with the content producers.
[27:12.250 --> 27:17.650]  It's not they get all the rights forever to do whatever they want and tell us none of us can do anything.
[27:17.650 --> 27:28.490]  And a lot of broadcasters, a lot of content producers, certainly not all, seem to not quite understand that they do not have absolute control over everything.
[27:29.350 --> 27:30.250]  Right, right.
[27:30.330 --> 27:34.730]  And it's harmful to all sorts of things, particularly history.
[27:34.730 --> 27:39.230]  The way that they run roughshod over quote-unquote rights.
[27:39.330 --> 27:49.030]  So many things are kept in vaults and not ever released because they don't have the proper rights, they haven't paid the appropriate fees.
[27:49.190 --> 28:00.490]  And actual history, things like old programs, old newscasts, things like that are left to molder and eventually disintegrate because somebody isn't getting paid.
[28:00.730 --> 28:01.370]  And it's just...
[28:01.370 --> 28:07.610]  I think somebody should kick in after a certain amount of time saying, okay, you know what, now this belongs to the people because you haven't done anything with it.
[28:07.790 --> 28:09.770]  You know, there used to be this thing that did just that.
[28:09.890 --> 28:10.810]  It was called the public domain.
[28:10.810 --> 28:16.570]  And, you know, works would expire into the public domain within a reasonably short amount of time.
[28:16.690 --> 28:18.450]  But that just doesn't seem to happen anymore.
[28:18.450 --> 28:19.670]  Now it's, what, like 400 years?
[28:19.770 --> 28:20.670]  Something like that, yeah.
[28:20.770 --> 28:21.350]  I'd as well be.
[28:21.390 --> 28:24.670]  So the public domain is important and we should fight to get it back.
[28:24.770 --> 28:45.550]  But even works that are still under copyright, we have this concept in the United States called fair use and other countries call it something else but they have the same idea where even if a work is under copyright, owned by someone, there are still things that other people can do with it and that really offends certain large corporations.
[28:45.890 --> 28:45.970]  Mm-hmm.
[28:46.310 --> 28:47.830]  And which is why we should do it as much as possible.
[28:48.030 --> 28:48.210]  Right.
[28:48.370 --> 28:58.070]  And in this day and age when we've all got video cameras in our phones and things like that and we can do things like go outside and document what life is like now outside in public.
[28:58.070 --> 29:12.850]  but since all these content providers are trying so hard to have music pumping out of speakers in every store trying to entice you in and copyrighted images on posters everywhere, if you go out into Times Square and take a video, any random video, chances are if you put that up on YouTube,
[29:13.090 --> 29:15.890]  Google's system will recognize what music is playing in the background.
[29:16.110 --> 29:16.330]  Yeah.
[29:16.410 --> 29:25.670]  Even if it's as little as somebody's ringtone goes off and it's like a snippet of music and then that will give the owner of whatever that music is certain rights over your original work, your derivative work.
[29:25.670 --> 29:27.030]  Yeah, I mean we have...
[29:27.510 --> 29:45.690]  I've been dealing with this with YouTube which is owned by Google with the Hope videos and you know if while setting up for one of the talks a particular song is playing in the background the video gets flagged because of that as if somebody is going to take that and say okay,
[29:45.850 --> 29:52.490]  you know what I'm not going to buy that song now because I can hear it playing in the distance on this talk that's got nothing to do with this song.
[29:52.690 --> 29:54.190]  It's absurd logic.
[29:54.370 --> 29:56.870]  If anything they might ask what is that song?
[29:56.990 --> 30:02.270]  I'd like to get it and they'll learn something from that but instead access is cut off.
[30:02.910 --> 30:24.390]  Yeah, as a matter of course I tend to release videos that I put up on YouTube under Creative Commons which you know is free and nice but because a video I had happened to have an ambient piece of music like some stock you know elevator music that was playing over a speaker YouTube recognized that piece of music inserted that information into the video itself and then reverted it where I can't
[30:24.390 --> 30:30.810]  choose a free license for this video of mine anymore because somebody else owns a piece of music that's in it and that gets up my nose.
[30:31.210 --> 30:31.730]  Yeah, yeah.
[30:31.790 --> 30:54.850]  We need to be able to fight these things and challenge them relentlessly and what's amazing is that it's an algorithm that does this so quickly even before your video goes public they calculate it they say you have to go to this entity and pay them a certain amount of money or get permission from them which of course you never do and it's a nightmare it's only going to get worse you know as people
[30:55.390 --> 30:59.890]  store more things as computers get faster it's really pretty sad.
[31:00.870 --> 31:16.690]  Okay, moving on in the world of mass media The Daily Show has been in the news lately more than usual I guess apparently according to this news story from the Associated Press The Daily Show and diplomacy don't mix which is the lesson the U.S.
[31:16.950 --> 31:25.290]  Embassy in Cairo is learning the hard way after being rebuked by both the Egyptian government and the State Department which sponsors the U.S.
[31:25.530 --> 31:50.810]  Embassy in Cairo for causing an international incident the embassy tweeted a link to a John Stewart monologue that mocked Egypt's president offending the Egyptians and then they deleted their entire Twitter account before restoring it without the post in question which also irritated Washington now Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi's office called the tweet inappropriate and unbecoming of a
[31:50.810 --> 32:08.610]  diplomatic mission while the State Department said the unusual affair was the result of glitches in the embassy's social media policies that are now being corrected I can just imagine what actually went on inside the offices there It's really not hard to imagine Someone thought the link was funny and tweeted,
[32:08.870 --> 32:11.570]  and then it caused an uproar, so they had to make excuses.
[32:11.710 --> 32:19.990]  No, I'm saying is I'd like to hear how that translated into deleting the entire account and then restoring the entire account, because somebody didn't know what they were doing over there.
[32:20.190 --> 32:23.770]  All kinds of phone calls and red faces and things like that.
[32:24.230 --> 32:44.890]  So in this particular clip, Stuart accused Marcy of being petty, undemocratic, ignoring more pressing problems like Egypt's economic crisis, violent crime, failure to qualify for the World Cup, and I added that one in, and various things like going after comics who are critical of his government.
[32:45.470 --> 32:51.650]  Stuart pointed out that he has made a living by poking fun at political leaders and that such activity is harmless and should be protected.
[32:53.130 --> 32:58.290]  Marcy's office responded to the embassy's post on its own Twitter feed, which is how governments apparently communicate these days.
[32:58.410 --> 33:03.990]  It's inappropriate, they said, for a diplomatic mission to engage in such negative political propaganda.
[33:04.710 --> 33:13.890]  And as I said, the embassy responded on Wednesday by deleting its entire Twitter account, which drew the wrath of State Department headquarters in Washington, which was already peeved by the initial post.
[33:14.250 --> 33:18.070]  The account was then restored without the Stuart tweet.
[33:18.970 --> 33:30.150]  Embassies and consulates and their senior leadership manage the content that is on their feeds, and they are expected to use good policy judgment in doing that, according to State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland.
[33:31.070 --> 33:38.090]  On Monday, Nuland had made comments similar to Stuart's, although more nuanced and couched in diplomatic terms.
[33:38.770 --> 33:49.350]  She declined to say if the State Department agreed with the Egyptian government's criticism of the tweet, but she suggested the embassy had erred by posting a link to a video that is already available on the Internet.
[33:49.550 --> 33:53.870]  I can't speak to the decision to retweet Jon Stewart to start with, but Jon Stewart is a comedy show in the U.S.
[33:54.410 --> 33:56.330]  As you know, it's publicly available content.
[33:56.550 --> 34:00.410]  It does seem a little odd for an embassy to be tweeting links to The Daily Show.
[34:00.630 --> 34:05.070]  So if you work at an embassy and you want to retweet a link, make sure it's not a link to something on the Internet.
[34:05.690 --> 34:07.670]  Yeah, that logic escapes me.
[34:08.070 --> 34:14.250]  I do actually like the implication that the State Department should be tweeting things that were not previously publicly available.
[34:15.070 --> 34:18.130]  They have a lot of information that I'd like to see.
[34:18.510 --> 34:22.550]  Do you think maybe something on WikiLeaks, they would have a link to that, perhaps?
[34:22.550 --> 34:23.510]  That would be something.
[34:23.610 --> 34:24.830]  That would cause some consternation.
[34:26.210 --> 34:27.230]  Bernie, any comments on this?
[34:27.910 --> 34:41.850]  Yeah, this story reminded me of the old Soviet Union practice of recalling and revising school textbooks to delete references to whoever the previous leader was that they wanted to erase from history.
[34:42.710 --> 34:48.490]  And so they'd issue new textbooks with that guy removed from the photographs or whatever.
[34:48.490 --> 34:54.750]  And this seems kind of like our new national version of revisionist history of publications.
[34:54.930 --> 34:58.290]  It's like an ex post facto self-censorship.
[34:58.590 --> 35:02.330]  But this can be done, like, in the blink of an eye, and you don't even know it.
[35:02.410 --> 35:13.430]  So I really wonder how many other tweets the government agencies have made that have just gone down, flushed down the memory hole, censored, that people didn't even notice disappeared.
[35:13.450 --> 35:15.110]  But there might have been a good story behind it.
[35:15.250 --> 35:16.990]  And I'm sure you can retrieve them.
[35:17.130 --> 35:22.610]  Maybe you have to go to the Library of Congress, which I believe stores all tweets now, because that's what they do with their time.
[35:23.710 --> 35:26.290]  Yeah, tweets also get cached all over the Internet.
[35:26.430 --> 35:31.150]  There are lots of sites that seem to exist for no other reason than to repost what people have posted on Twitter.
[35:31.330 --> 35:33.270]  So, like, nothing ever really goes away from the Internet.
[35:33.270 --> 35:34.030]  It's the Streisand effect.
[35:34.030 --> 35:40.350]  I can't help but think that we're forgetting something a lot more important by focusing so much time on Twitter and tweets and things like that.
[35:40.430 --> 35:48.270]  But let's continue, because apparently there's also a story in Denver involving NBC affiliate KUSA.
[35:48.650 --> 35:54.630]  They have deleted their original tweet of what they refer to as coarse language.
[35:55.530 --> 35:57.090]  Yeah, and we can say this.
[35:57.130 --> 35:58.550]  We can say what they actually said.
[35:59.410 --> 36:02.190]  The tweet read, What's all the bitching about?
[36:02.190 --> 36:11.990]  Which was a reference to the fact that a storm was actually living up to its hype and validating KUSA's extensive weather coverage on Tuesday.
[36:11.990 --> 36:14.670]  Apparently, some viewers were upset at that.
[36:14.850 --> 36:17.430]  So, somebody in the news apparently tweeted that.
[36:17.590 --> 36:23.950]  And that was deleted and then replaced with, Apologies to all offended by our earlier coarse language.
[36:24.130 --> 36:26.290]  New snow reports continue to validate forecasts.
[36:26.290 --> 36:31.110]  So, they just basically were saying the same thing without the nasty word in there.
[36:31.790 --> 36:33.950]  Yeah, this is what people spend their time on.
[36:34.070 --> 36:34.930]  It's pretty incredible.
[36:35.030 --> 36:36.070]  Let's not spend any more time on it, though.
[36:36.150 --> 36:38.830]  Let's talk about something else in the mass media, which I think is kind of funny.
[36:39.370 --> 36:44.730]  This was a story that showed up in the CBS affiliate of Long Beach, California.
[36:45.430 --> 36:57.410]  Police are asking for the public's help in identifying three tech-savvy criminals wanted for a series of car burglaries in which they use an unknown device to gain keyless entry to vehicles.
[36:57.870 --> 37:06.510]  The men are accused of breaking into seven vehicles in an East Long Beach neighborhood on the night of February 26th, according to Long Beach police.
[37:06.630 --> 37:07.950]  Sure, it took their time getting the word out.
[37:07.950 --> 37:19.050]  But the suspects were caught on surveillance using small-handled devices, small-handled devices, that caused the vehicle's dome light to come on and doors to unlock.
[37:19.050 --> 37:22.890]  That's according to Detective Joseph Starbird, who said this in a news release.
[37:23.010 --> 37:27.510]  Now, police believe there could be several other victims who were also burglarized without their knowledge.
[37:27.810 --> 37:29.830]  I guess they didn't need whatever they lost then.
[37:29.830 --> 37:41.610]  The Long Beach Police Department's Auto Theft Detail has been working with law enforcement agencies nationally and internationally, as well as vehicle manufacturers, to identify the type of technology being used.
[37:41.750 --> 37:45.810]  Thus far, no agency or company has been able to identify the device.
[37:45.810 --> 37:54.110]  This is a situation where technology is working against us, making our job much more challenging at a time where resources are already strained.
[37:54.230 --> 37:58.930]  Just as law enforcement tactics evolve, so does the criminal elements end.
[37:59.570 --> 38:03.690]  And we need the community's involvement more so than ever.
[38:04.010 --> 38:16.110]  And police are advising that residents remove valuables and extra keys from vehicles and install motion lights outside of their homes, because that's basically the only way to combat this sort of thing.
[38:16.470 --> 38:19.550]  Now, Bernie, do you have any theories as to what the device is?
[38:20.130 --> 38:21.470]  Yeah, these are not new.
[38:21.650 --> 38:24.610]  These things have been around for almost as long as...
[38:25.830 --> 38:28.470]  almost as long as keyless entry systems have been.
[38:28.470 --> 38:32.870]  You know, a little key fob on your keychain and you can open your car or unlock the doors.
[38:33.950 --> 38:38.150]  You know, it's kind of like a TVV Gone in that it scans through all the codes.
[38:38.850 --> 38:45.970]  And except instead of scanning through all the television off-codes, it scans through all the possible codes that will unlock a car.
[38:46.170 --> 38:50.450]  Except there's more, but it scans through them more quickly, too, than a TVV Gone does.
[38:50.610 --> 38:54.390]  Well, the modern systems use something called code hopping, right?
[38:55.170 --> 39:02.050]  Yeah, there's different... they're not all standard, but there's different car manufacturers, and they use different... some of them use different technologies.
[39:02.650 --> 39:04.330]  But there are some standard ones.
[39:04.470 --> 39:06.450]  But they don't send it on the same frequency every time.
[39:06.450 --> 39:07.610]  They use a different one.
[39:07.650 --> 39:13.110]  But if you're able to compromise the key, then you can really control a lot of...
[39:13.110 --> 39:16.250]  a lot of entry and access.
[39:16.670 --> 39:19.450]  It makes it easier when you compromise the key.
[39:19.530 --> 39:20.330]  You can do it by brute force.
[39:20.390 --> 39:21.150]  It just takes longer.
[39:21.350 --> 39:24.790]  But if you have a lot of time to hang around parking lots, you can open cars.
[39:24.990 --> 39:27.250]  And that sounds what these people are doing.
[39:27.450 --> 39:29.850]  And this shouldn't really surprise anybody.
[39:30.490 --> 39:33.630]  Anything that's wireless is going to be vulnerable.
[39:34.110 --> 39:35.890]  Wireless and digital, it's...
[39:35.890 --> 39:37.990]  you know, it's going to be problems with it.
[39:38.050 --> 39:42.910]  Well, what's interesting here, and there was a surveillance video that showed this, is they went to a lot of cars very, very quickly.
[39:43.390 --> 39:45.390]  Now, I don't know if they were the same type of car.
[39:45.470 --> 39:46.850]  They didn't give that information out.
[39:47.650 --> 39:53.290]  But I'm not sure if they scanned for this beforehand or if it scanned that quickly.
[39:53.390 --> 39:54.830]  They're able to simply walk up to a car.
[39:54.970 --> 39:57.210]  And in all cases, they walked up to the passenger side.
[39:57.290 --> 39:58.110]  I don't know if that makes a difference.
[39:58.210 --> 40:00.790]  They walked up to the passenger side, and I didn't see any device in their hand.
[40:00.830 --> 40:02.830]  It looked like they just opened...
[40:03.370 --> 40:06.330]  pulled open the handle of the door, and it just opened immediately.
[40:07.090 --> 40:08.990]  And I also noticed they closed the door very softly.
[40:08.990 --> 40:10.890]  Maybe that's just to avoid making any noise.
[40:12.470 --> 40:15.290]  But I'm very curious as to how the devices actually work.
[40:15.350 --> 40:19.610]  I think people should know how easy this is and, as you say, how long this kind of technology has been around.
[40:19.610 --> 40:21.630]  Apparently, it's something the Long Beach police don't know.
[40:22.510 --> 40:24.150]  They've gotten better over the years.
[40:24.370 --> 40:29.670]  The keyless entry systems have gotten more secure, but then so have criminals that like to open other people's cars.
[40:29.970 --> 40:32.750]  So it's, you know, it's the usual technology.
[40:35.790 --> 40:39.370]  Criminals versus the citizens are against law enforcement.
[40:39.750 --> 40:46.430]  But like you mentioned, there are other techniques where you can set up a receiver that will pick up these codes, and you can just leave it in a certain area.
[40:47.350 --> 40:58.650]  And cars that are parked in a parking lot, then after they're parked and their owners walk away, you can... you have snagged the code, and you can, you know, go and open it if you're so inclined.
[40:58.730 --> 40:59.570]  So that's likely what happened.
[40:59.610 --> 41:02.610]  They simply got a list, and they were able to go car to car very quickly.
[41:02.810 --> 41:06.210]  It seemed like they were very certain they were going to be able to get in, and then, of course, they did.
[41:06.510 --> 41:11.150]  What's interesting, though, and this is my real question here, how do you protect yourself?
[41:11.310 --> 41:12.430]  Well, you have a key fob.
[41:13.850 --> 41:18.370]  Many times there are keys actually attached to that, real physical keys, but can you disable the key fob?
[41:19.770 --> 41:27.630]  Well, if your battery dies in your key fob, I'm hopeful you still have a key to get in your car with.
[41:28.770 --> 41:33.370]  So, yes, you can disable the part of your car that receives the code.
[41:33.570 --> 41:42.270]  You'd have to probably take it to a dealership or have a service manual so you know where to remove power from this receiver for your wireless remote entry.
[41:42.390 --> 41:46.590]  But you won't have all the extra features, like you won't be able to pop the trunk with your remote and all that.
[41:46.730 --> 41:56.730]  It's like if you remove the power from the receiver, all the wireless entry features, maybe set off the alarm remotely, they will all stop working.
[41:56.730 --> 41:58.210]  You know what else will stop working, Bernie?
[41:59.210 --> 42:07.030]  If you have a smart car from a different country, you will not have the ability to start the car if your key fob loses its battery.
[42:07.490 --> 42:14.510]  Yeah, so you'll have to somehow get your car all the way to Canada to have it rematched with the frequency and all that.
[42:14.530 --> 42:15.610]  Oh, you experienced this, did you?
[42:15.950 --> 42:20.470]  Well, I have one key left, but if that one dies, yeah, it's going to be a lot of trouble.
[42:21.590 --> 42:22.470]  How about mail order?
[42:22.570 --> 42:25.490]  Can you send it up and have it copied and mailed back to you?
[42:25.810 --> 42:26.610]  What, the car?
[42:26.730 --> 42:27.510]  Oh, the key?
[42:27.650 --> 42:30.910]  No, the car has to be there for them to do this.
[42:31.050 --> 42:32.070]  At least that's what they say.
[42:32.530 --> 42:33.330]  I don't believe it.
[42:33.350 --> 42:37.670]  I think that it's a scam to get you in the dealership so they can sell you more services and repairs.
[42:38.030 --> 42:38.990]  Probably, probably.
[42:39.130 --> 42:41.310]  But good luck getting them to rescind that policy.
[42:41.550 --> 42:45.310]  Hey, we have a phone number that we're going to try calling.
[42:45.530 --> 42:48.750]  Now, apparently, this is something that people have been talking about.
[42:48.750 --> 42:54.590]  I don't know why 1993 is such a big deal, but a bunch of payphones in New York City.
[42:54.650 --> 43:02.350]  In fact, I heard all payphones in New York City are equipped now with, I guess, a particular...
[43:02.350 --> 43:05.350]  Well, actually, the payphones don't have anything equipped on them.
[43:05.350 --> 43:17.710]  What they're doing is they're using the phone numbers, when you call this toll-free number, to play a particular recording that is geared towards the location in New York City that that particular payphone happens to be.
[43:17.870 --> 43:21.390]  Now, New York City, according to this story, was a very different place 20 years ago.
[43:21.390 --> 43:45.010]  Now, recalling 1993 surfaces memories of early 90s New York City by turning every Manhattan payphone into an audio time capsule, the campaign lets anyone dial 1-855, I think the first 855 number ever given out, 4-F-O-R-1993, from a payphone to listen to a memory specific to the local area.
[43:45.490 --> 43:48.150]  Now, there's... this is actually the most interesting thing.
[43:48.150 --> 43:57.590]  There's a map that has a location of all of Manhattan's payphones at www.recalling1993.com.
[43:57.710 --> 44:02.530]  I think that's something that people have been trying to organize and get right for many years.
[44:02.690 --> 44:06.750]  But every single payphone is... every single Verizon payphone, that is, is listed.
[44:07.950 --> 44:14.210]  And that's basically where you can go to listen to a recording in particular area.
[44:14.410 --> 44:19.550]  It even tells you what kind of recording you'll hear, like Memories of the East Village or something from the Upper West Side.
[44:19.550 --> 44:25.530]  It was created by Manhattan-based marketing firm Droge 5?
[44:25.690 --> 44:26.590]  Droga 5.
[44:26.830 --> 44:40.030]  In the... in collaboration with the new museum to promote NYC 1993, Experimental Jet Set, Trash, and No Star, a new exhibition that showcases art made in New York City.
[44:42.450 --> 44:47.110]  Basically, Experimental Jet Set, all kinds of things like that over the course of that particular year.
[44:47.430 --> 44:50.510]  So, what I'd like to do is call that number from...
[44:51.310 --> 44:54.310]  from a non-payphone, and let's see what happens.
[44:54.370 --> 44:56.210]  I've never actually dialed on this system before.
[44:56.430 --> 44:57.110]  Do we have a dial tone?
[44:57.230 --> 44:57.390]  Okay.
[44:57.810 --> 44:59.050]  We have to dial 9 to get out.
[44:59.050 --> 45:08.390]  All right, and then we dial 1-855-FOR-1993.
[45:09.490 --> 45:10.410]  Let's listen.
[45:15.780 --> 45:28.480]  Hi, I'm Speed Levitch, and in 1993, I had just graduated from NYU and was in pursuit of my first occupation, being a New York City tour guide, working on the double-decker loop.
[45:28.480 --> 45:32.320]  Do you want to really know what New York was like in 1993?
[45:32.900 --> 45:33.100]  Sure.
[45:34.980 --> 45:35.940]  Well, yeah, what?
[45:36.000 --> 45:36.680]  Do you want me to say yes?
[45:36.820 --> 45:37.100]  Yes.
[45:38.460 --> 45:39.100]  I don't...
[45:39.100 --> 45:40.240]  They didn't say it was voice activated.
[45:40.240 --> 45:40.840]  I don't know.
[45:41.720 --> 45:42.500]  I think it broke.
[45:42.860 --> 45:43.540]  Did it break...
[45:43.540 --> 45:44.120]  Did I break it?
[45:44.260 --> 45:44.800]  I don't know.
[45:44.920 --> 45:45.380]  Press a button.
[45:45.860 --> 45:46.940]  Maybe it's a rhetorical question.
[45:46.940 --> 45:47.780]  What button do I press?
[45:48.320 --> 45:49.140]  I'll hit one.
[45:49.220 --> 45:49.360]  Try one.
[45:50.040 --> 45:50.360]  Okay.
[45:52.400 --> 45:52.800]  Nothing.
[45:53.080 --> 45:53.520]  No, nothing.
[45:54.340 --> 45:56.740]  I think you have to be calling from the payphone, Emmanuel.
[45:56.740 --> 45:58.340]  Well, they could say that.
[45:58.340 --> 45:58.780]  It couldn't be.
[45:58.860 --> 46:01.740]  It would be very helpful, instead of just saying nothing.
[46:02.420 --> 46:08.540]  When you call from the payphone, technology is called A&I, basically sends the phone number.
[46:08.680 --> 46:10.040]  It's kind of like caller ID, but not.
[46:10.220 --> 46:23.920]  It sends the phone number of the payphone to this service, recalling 1993, where they probably have a computer that looks at the number and then plays that audio file associated with the ambient sound around that phone back in 1993.
[46:23.920 --> 46:25.340]  I think this is a neat project.
[46:25.340 --> 46:34.600]  It's a really good use of payphones and sort of time-shifting technology and ambient sound.
[46:34.780 --> 46:35.400]  I like it.
[46:35.400 --> 46:37.100]  But I think it's being misreported, though.
[46:37.220 --> 46:41.760]  People seem to think that the payphone itself recorded sound around it 20 years ago.
[46:41.960 --> 46:52.480]  And I don't believe whatever company it was called then, Bell Atlantic or 9X or Verizon, whatever, had the ability to do that with their payphones.
[46:52.660 --> 46:56.220]  So basically, it's a recording talking about that particular part of the neighborhood.
[46:56.300 --> 46:57.560]  Although I could be wrong.
[46:57.560 --> 46:58.900]  I have yet to hear one of these recordings.
[46:59.140 --> 47:00.800]  This whole thing's a bit of a missed opportunity, though.
[47:00.900 --> 47:05.680]  If they really, truly wanted to give us a taste of 1993 at a payphone, they'd make it so my red box would work again.
[47:06.800 --> 47:08.360]  Yeah, that's a good idea, actually.
[47:08.740 --> 47:11.380]  You know, couldn't really lose anything, could they?
[47:12.040 --> 47:12.480]  All right.
[47:12.540 --> 47:13.000]  Well, you know what?
[47:13.060 --> 47:14.120]  I'm going to hang up on this thing.
[47:14.420 --> 47:15.500]  Last call for 1993.
[47:15.620 --> 47:16.460]  Is anybody there?
[47:17.880 --> 47:18.180]  No.
[47:18.300 --> 47:19.800]  You know, that's how I remember 1993, too.
[47:19.800 --> 47:22.420]  A whole lot of silence and not much going on.
[47:22.420 --> 47:24.220]  That's why we had hope the year afterwards.
[47:24.440 --> 47:25.540]  1994, the first hope.
[47:25.540 --> 47:28.680]  That's why, to make up for the silence.
[47:29.440 --> 47:29.720]  Okay.
[47:29.860 --> 47:34.520]  Our phone number is 212-650-5782.
[47:35.020 --> 47:38.020]  We really need to get a better sign with our phone number.
[47:38.120 --> 47:40.400]  It's written on a piece of tape on the actual phone.
[47:40.800 --> 47:42.480]  It looks like two different kinds of pen.
[47:43.440 --> 47:44.860]  212-650-5782.
[47:45.040 --> 47:51.500]  If there's anything on your mind, anything you'd like to ask us, or anything you'd just like to get off your chest, feel free to give us a call.
[47:51.680 --> 47:54.660]  We'll be taking phone calls in the next 10 or so minutes, I guess.
[47:54.660 --> 47:57.080]  It's 212-650-5782.
[47:57.620 --> 48:01.200]  And I should remind people we only have one line at the moment.
[48:01.280 --> 48:05.860]  So if you get a busy signal, just keep trying until you get through.
[48:07.080 --> 48:11.340]  No one has gotten through yet, so we'll just have to wait for that nasty sound.
[48:11.540 --> 48:12.680]  Bernie, are you still there?
[48:12.960 --> 48:13.880]  I heard it ringing.
[48:13.920 --> 48:18.260]  So maybe if I start talking, somebody will call in and start with that annoying ringing sound.
[48:18.260 --> 48:22.640]  Yeah, if you start saying something that I can't interrupt you with, invariably, that sound will begin.
[48:23.700 --> 48:24.060]  Invariably?
[48:24.100 --> 48:24.600]  Yeah, yeah.
[48:25.860 --> 48:27.440]  What is the nearest...
[48:27.440 --> 48:28.360]  Very good.
[48:28.700 --> 48:29.860]  See, I can't interrupt him now.
[48:30.420 --> 48:31.760]  I don't have the map in front of me.
[48:31.780 --> 48:32.680]  I just have the news story.
[48:32.820 --> 48:34.640]  But there's probably one downstairs.
[48:35.020 --> 48:36.620]  WBI Studios are in Harlem right now.
[48:36.620 --> 48:37.180]  Wait, upstairs.
[48:37.360 --> 48:38.540]  We're downstairs, aren't we?
[48:38.580 --> 48:39.140]  We're in the basement.
[48:39.580 --> 48:40.540]  We're on the first floor.
[48:40.700 --> 48:41.200]  Oh, we're in the first...
[48:41.200 --> 48:42.020]  But we go downstairs.
[48:42.280 --> 48:43.020]  Wait, come in.
[48:43.020 --> 48:48.640]  The building is on an incline, so one street is one floor higher than the entrance on the other street.
[48:48.880 --> 48:49.400]  I see.
[48:49.540 --> 48:49.760]  Okay.
[48:50.400 --> 48:51.320]  It's so confusing.
[48:51.520 --> 48:52.440]  I still don't know how this...
[48:52.440 --> 48:53.680]  We lost the call.
[48:53.820 --> 48:57.280]  We lost the call while we were figuring out where we were in regard to the earth.
[48:58.220 --> 49:01.160]  Again, 212-650-5782.
[49:01.260 --> 49:01.980]  I'm giving out the right number, right?
[49:02.060 --> 49:03.660]  212-650-5782.
[49:03.840 --> 49:05.520]  I can't get it in my head yet.
[49:05.680 --> 49:07.820]  But Bernie, why don't you start saying something again?
[49:07.940 --> 49:08.740]  I'm sure it'll start ringing in.
[49:08.740 --> 49:09.040]  That's it.
[49:09.180 --> 49:12.200]  I was asking where this project...
[49:12.200 --> 49:12.440]  Thank you.
[49:12.440 --> 49:13.240]  Thank you very much, Bernie.
[49:13.400 --> 49:13.660]  All right.
[49:13.840 --> 49:14.480]  Good evening.
[49:14.660 --> 49:15.480]  You're on off the hook.
[49:15.860 --> 49:16.380]  Thank you.
[49:17.240 --> 49:17.880]  Speak up, please.
[49:18.700 --> 49:19.680]  Can I have a...
[49:19.680 --> 49:21.140]  Are he to the rat to go, please?
[49:21.760 --> 49:22.560]  Say that...
[49:22.560 --> 49:23.260]  Say it slower.
[49:23.380 --> 49:23.540]  What?
[49:24.000 --> 49:25.900]  Are he to the rat to go?
[49:26.940 --> 49:28.900]  I don't think you've got the right number.
[49:29.660 --> 49:30.880]  Or the right century.
[49:31.060 --> 49:31.860]  Or anything like that.
[49:32.200 --> 49:32.700]  Good evening.
[49:32.860 --> 49:33.840]  You're on off the hook.
[49:34.620 --> 49:35.220]  Speak up.
[49:35.520 --> 49:36.920]  I don't think you've got the right...
[49:36.920 --> 49:37.460]  That's me.
[49:37.780 --> 49:39.320]  Turn down your radio and speak into the phone.
[49:41.180 --> 49:41.580]  Okay.
[49:41.580 --> 49:43.080]  Okay, we've got a lot of jokers out there tonight.
[49:43.200 --> 49:44.340]  Somehow they're all getting through.
[49:44.880 --> 49:51.840]  Now, I know there are a lot of serious people out there that have things to talk about technology-wise or radio-wise or whatever's going on in your world.
[49:52.700 --> 49:54.700]  212-650-5782.
[49:54.760 --> 50:00.800]  It's kind of cool we have noise now that tells us when the phone is ringing, and it's actual noise, not those annoying bells down the hall.
[50:01.220 --> 50:01.820]  Good evening.
[50:01.920 --> 50:03.120]  You're on Off the Hook.
[50:04.080 --> 50:04.440]  Hi.
[50:04.680 --> 50:05.320]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[50:05.320 --> 50:11.080]  Well, again, the patent lawyer who was the sole survivor of the firm that represented Major Armstrong.
[50:11.420 --> 50:12.580]  What happened to the rest of them?
[50:13.200 --> 50:13.700]  What's that?
[50:13.840 --> 50:14.740]  What happened to the rest of them?
[50:15.780 --> 50:16.780]  Well, they all died.
[50:16.960 --> 50:17.820]  Oh, okay.
[50:18.060 --> 50:18.240]  Yeah.
[50:18.360 --> 50:18.720]  I'm sorry.
[50:20.440 --> 50:23.600]  So, anyway, on the copyright issue...
[50:23.600 --> 50:24.940]  Did you meet Mr. Armstrong, by the way?
[50:25.340 --> 50:26.040]  No, no.
[50:26.260 --> 50:30.140]  He actually lived up the street from me when I was two or three years old.
[50:30.540 --> 50:34.440]  But he passed away long before I became a patent lawyer.
[50:34.960 --> 50:38.120]  Well, let's make this quick, because we do want to get to a bunch of calls in five minutes.
[50:38.340 --> 50:38.740]  So, tell us...
[50:38.740 --> 50:38.940]  Yeah, that would be right.
[50:39.740 --> 50:48.920]  If you are a co-author of the work, and if you gave a speech, you certainly are a co-author of the work, you have an absolute right to distribute this.
[50:49.080 --> 51:01.120]  Now, if there are other co-authors, and you make money on your distribution, then you create a constructive trust from which you have to pay the other co-authors their fair share, which is generally an equal share.
[51:01.600 --> 51:08.440]  But if you gave the speech or authored the work in some other way, you've got an absolute right to use it.
[51:08.520 --> 51:17.520]  Now, if somebody put an infringing track of music over a video, then the owner of the music could stop that from being put up there.
[51:17.520 --> 51:20.380]  But you can certainly put your own work up there without the music.
[51:21.420 --> 51:25.320]  So, I'm just going to be direct and tell you that I don't care.
[51:25.700 --> 51:27.340]  Because you're...
[51:27.340 --> 51:31.940]  And I do want to thank you for giving us a good explanation of how copyright law works.
[51:32.180 --> 51:40.080]  But the question is how it should work in the 21st century.
[51:40.300 --> 51:57.220]  And I think that the copyright laws as written have been designed to give too much power to the large content producers, not enough power to the individual content producers, and really almost no power at all to people who want to reuse works in creative ways.
[51:57.420 --> 52:02.320]  And I think that is really the question that we have to discuss on this show.
[52:02.780 --> 52:03.260]  Yeah.
[52:03.400 --> 52:09.860]  Well, when you put it into an audio-visual work, then you create all kinds of problems because there's no compulsory license there.
[52:09.860 --> 52:23.620]  But if there's a piece of music that you would like to perform, and it has been published or performed in the past, you could always pay your compulsory royalty to the author of the music, and he would have to accept it.
[52:23.680 --> 52:23.900]  Right.
[52:24.060 --> 52:39.960]  So, what would you suggest for the situation we had with the Jello Biafra talk, where somebody took our speech from our panel at Hope, used it in a song, and then tried to claim the copyright for the original item that was used?
[52:40.600 --> 52:42.200]  The record company did publish it.
[52:42.380 --> 52:42.560]  Right.
[52:42.800 --> 52:45.000]  The writer of the speech is a co-author.
[52:45.820 --> 52:49.600]  The writer and performer of the speech is a co-author to that song.
[52:49.780 --> 52:49.920]  Right.
[52:50.100 --> 52:59.580]  But if they're taking down our performance of the original, because their system recognizes it as their copyrighted material...
[52:59.580 --> 53:02.920]  Well, keep in mind, all this happens before anybody's even spoken to.
[53:02.920 --> 53:08.180]  It's just the automatic Google-slash-YouTube system at work that just recognizes something and immediately...
[53:08.180 --> 53:08.560]  Right.
[53:08.740 --> 53:14.040]  And you would be able to contact YouTube and explain to them that you are also a copyright owner here.
[53:14.080 --> 53:23.000]  It sort of squashes the whole creative process, though, because you're constantly having to face these battles and having to challenge things.
[53:23.220 --> 53:30.260]  And you have to ask yourself, is it really hurting anybody to have something like this in the background?
[53:30.260 --> 53:35.980]  I mean, people singing Happy Birthday, they're afraid to do that without attribution or without...
[53:35.980 --> 53:37.940]  You know, maybe they'll sing something else instead.
[53:38.700 --> 53:42.400]  Life of the author plus 70 years is an awful long time.
[53:42.560 --> 53:42.680]  Right.
[53:42.960 --> 53:46.480]  Litigation was brought against that when it was first put into place.
[53:46.480 --> 53:53.760]  It was sort of a gift to the Disney Corporation, whose Mickey Mouse copyrights were about to expire.
[53:54.100 --> 53:59.260]  So they just extended them again, because who wants to go against WABC when you're running for Congress?
[54:00.520 --> 54:00.940]  All right.
[54:01.060 --> 54:04.300]  Listen, thanks very much for your call and for the information that you sent to us.
[54:04.400 --> 54:06.100]  It's very, very much valued.
[54:06.760 --> 54:10.640]  And again, our phone number is 212-650-5782.
[54:11.600 --> 54:14.560]  Let's see if we can fit in one or two more phone calls.
[54:14.640 --> 54:27.200]  But, you know, I really do think that the best way to deal with this is simply to keep challenging it and for as many people as possible to constantly be challenging this and speaking out against it and being loud and angry, because you should be.
[54:27.320 --> 54:27.960]  This is our culture.
[54:28.080 --> 54:29.080]  This is part of who we are.
[54:29.280 --> 54:34.380]  We have every right to be creative with it and to do various things.
[54:34.420 --> 54:35.360]  It's not about fraud.
[54:35.360 --> 54:36.260]  It's not about stealing.
[54:36.360 --> 54:38.940]  And we can't ever accept that that's what it is.
[54:39.400 --> 54:39.940]  Good evening.
[54:40.100 --> 54:41.060]  You're on Off the Hook.
[54:41.700 --> 54:42.380]  Oh, dear.
[54:42.880 --> 54:43.900]  How did the dial tone call us?
[54:43.900 --> 54:46.260]  212-650-5782.
[54:46.700 --> 54:50.100]  I miss the days when we had a phone bank of 12 lines.
[54:50.220 --> 54:51.320]  I could just go from one line to another.
[54:51.400 --> 54:54.980]  Now I have to wait for the circuits to reset, as it were.
[54:55.060 --> 54:55.380]  Good evening.
[54:55.540 --> 54:56.400]  You're on Off the Hook.
[54:57.740 --> 54:58.460]  Speak up, please.
[54:58.560 --> 54:58.780]  Really?
[54:59.120 --> 54:59.600]  Go ahead.
[55:01.100 --> 55:01.500]  All right.
[55:01.540 --> 55:02.180]  That was your moment.
[55:03.200 --> 55:06.980]  If you'd like a moment like that, folks, 212-650-5782.
[55:07.420 --> 55:08.680]  Let's see if we get a better one this time.
[55:08.720 --> 55:09.040]  Good evening.
[55:09.140 --> 55:09.840]  You're on Off the Hook.
[55:10.280 --> 55:11.060]  Hey, what's up?
[55:11.120 --> 55:11.320]  Hi.
[55:11.380 --> 55:11.660]  How are you doing?
[55:12.740 --> 55:13.320]  What's on your mind?
[55:13.320 --> 55:13.620]  Yeah, yeah.
[55:13.680 --> 55:16.420]  I just want to touch base on some topics today.
[55:16.660 --> 55:17.460]  Okay, make it quick.
[55:18.280 --> 55:18.680]  Huh?
[55:18.840 --> 55:19.420]  Make it quick.
[55:19.500 --> 55:20.040]  You have about a minute.
[55:20.740 --> 55:21.140]  All right.
[55:21.200 --> 55:21.920]  So I'm on the air.
[55:22.120 --> 55:22.420]  Yes.
[55:23.240 --> 55:23.600]  All right.
[55:23.840 --> 55:26.780]  You know, the issue that I'm having here is...
[55:28.260 --> 55:50.340]  The thing is, you know, today, in the modern day time, you know, minorities are still being deprived of their own rights in America, you know, whether it's driving up the street or whether it's, you know, just going about their regular day in their life.
[55:50.660 --> 56:03.020]  You know, and it seems to me that, you know, the policies and practices that are being conducted and portrayed today have Jim Crow written all over it, the new Jim Crow.
[56:03.320 --> 56:07.740]  And, you know, and I am a sole survivor of it all.
[56:08.160 --> 56:08.520]  Okay.
[56:08.680 --> 56:16.480]  Well, it doesn't really pertain to what we were talking about, as far as I can see, but it was something that you wanted to get off your chest, and I'm glad we gave you the opportunity to do that.
[56:17.200 --> 56:18.160]  Thanks for your call.
[56:19.280 --> 56:20.780]  212-650-5782.
[56:21.000 --> 56:26.140]  Let's see if we can get one more phone call, maybe something that relates directly to what we were talking about.
[56:26.140 --> 56:26.680]  It would be nice.
[56:26.840 --> 56:27.160]  Good evening.
[56:27.360 --> 56:28.460]  You're on Off the Hook.
[56:29.280 --> 56:29.640]  Yeah.
[56:30.000 --> 56:30.760]  How are you doing?
[56:30.960 --> 56:31.140]  Hi.
[56:31.180 --> 56:31.760]  Make it quick, please.
[56:32.320 --> 56:33.240]  Long time listener.
[56:33.240 --> 56:39.480]  Regarding the monthly meetings at Citicorp, I went there at 6 o'clock.
[56:39.560 --> 56:40.420]  Did they start later?
[56:42.000 --> 56:42.480]  Nope.
[56:42.620 --> 56:46.920]  They start at the same time, usually around 5 or 6, and they keep going until later on.
[56:47.080 --> 56:48.020]  Where did you go?
[56:48.440 --> 56:50.660]  The Citicorp building, the common area.
[56:51.380 --> 56:52.600]  In Manhattan, right?
[56:52.740 --> 56:54.120]  Yeah, yeah, yeah, in Manhattan.
[56:54.300 --> 56:55.580]  Yeah, 53rd Street in Lexington.
[56:56.340 --> 56:56.480]  Yeah.
[56:57.080 --> 57:01.700]  Didn't you see a bunch of sneaky-looking people with a bunch of security guards watching them?
[57:02.260 --> 57:10.180]  Yeah, I've seen the security guards, but I've seen a bunch of people just, you know, going about their business, and I don't know if you guys do any kind of, like, presentation.
[57:10.200 --> 57:12.040]  I just wanted to go to the meetings.
[57:12.240 --> 57:12.900]  Well, it's...
[57:12.900 --> 57:16.300]  Okay, if you're looking for something with a presentation, it looks like a meeting where people are paying attention.
[57:16.300 --> 57:17.100]  No, it's not that.
[57:17.100 --> 57:23.940]  It's basically a bunch of people gathering around like a cocktail party, talking to various groups.
[57:24.800 --> 57:26.000]  You did go on Friday, right?
[57:26.600 --> 57:28.940]  Yeah, I went in the night that you guys...
[57:28.940 --> 57:33.120]  You know, it was in the, not this previous month, but the month before.
[57:33.840 --> 57:38.280]  And now, yeah, I guess I don't know anyone there that used to sit with anyone.
[57:38.460 --> 57:39.700]  Well, that's the best way to go.
[57:39.800 --> 57:46.060]  You just go there and start chatting with random people, and you'll always find interesting folks that attend.
[57:46.180 --> 57:46.780]  We're all very friendly.
[57:46.780 --> 57:48.100]  Please feel free to come by and say hi.
[57:48.100 --> 57:56.600]  So, it's always the first Friday of the month between the hours of 5 and 8 p.m., Citigroup Center, in the lobby, tables where people just sort of hang out.
[57:56.740 --> 57:58.820]  And we'd love to see you come back next time.
[57:59.000 --> 58:00.440]  All right, we are out of time.
[58:01.020 --> 58:06.320]  Again, if you want to write to us, our address is othat2600.com.
[58:06.420 --> 58:07.260]  We'd love to hear from you.
[58:08.300 --> 58:09.740]  Not now on the phone, unfortunately.
[58:10.180 --> 58:11.200]  We are out of time.
[58:11.520 --> 58:15.140]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show coming up next.
[58:16.040 --> 58:16.700]  Have a good night.
[58:41.960 --> 58:58.430]  The number you have reached, 9, 1, 1, has
[59:03.800 --> 59:04.480]  been changed.
[59:16.680 --> 59:18.160]  The new number is,
[59:43.440 --> 59:46.080]  the new number is,
[59:58.490 --> 59:59.350]  we're sorry.
[01:00:11.180 --> 01:00:11.940]  Excellent.
[01:00:12.080 --> 01:00:12.500]  We'll pay back up.