[00:00.000 --> 00:10.300]  ...for information on how to order, or go to TUC Radio's secure website, tucradio.org.
[00:11.020 --> 00:13.140]  My name is Maria Gelauden.
[00:13.740 --> 00:15.120]  Thank you for listening.
[00:15.380 --> 00:16.060]  Give us a call.
[00:35.390 --> 00:38.150]  You're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:38.330 --> 00:40.230]  That's 99.5 FM.
[00:40.970 --> 00:44.270]  The time is just about 7 o'clock p.m.
[00:44.970 --> 00:46.350]  Time for something special.
[01:00.290 --> 01:01.150]  We're hesitant.
[01:01.970 --> 01:02.990]  McNamara understood.
[01:56.000 --> 01:57.880]  This is WBAI New York.
[01:58.020 --> 01:59.720]  We apologize for the problems we've been having.
[01:59.880 --> 02:01.720]  Our transmitter had a slight heat stroke.
[02:01.960 --> 02:06.460]  We will be getting to Off the Hook in just a few minutes, the program about telephones.
[02:07.380 --> 02:08.080]  Stay tuned.
[02:08.180 --> 02:09.540]  This is WBAI New York.
[02:29.190 --> 02:30.830]  Does anyone remember that?
[02:31.590 --> 02:32.830]  No, nobody remembers that.
[02:32.990 --> 02:38.130]  That was the sound that you might have heard in WBAI 25 years ago.
[02:38.830 --> 02:42.150]  Yeah, it's the 25th anniversary of Off the Hook.
[02:43.010 --> 02:44.150]  And that's what it sounds like today.
[04:33.060 --> 04:34.140]  That was dead air, wasn't it?
[04:34.720 --> 04:37.840]  You know, I was listening to the old show on the Q speaker, and I thought it was going out over the air.
[04:37.900 --> 04:39.200]  It's a good thing it wasn't, because it wasn't so...
[04:39.200 --> 04:40.680]  Well, okay, let's listen to a little bit of it.
[04:41.480 --> 04:41.980]  Where is it?
[04:41.980 --> 04:45.820]  9-7-0, 5-4-0, and 5-5-5-0.
[04:46.340 --> 04:49.260]  9-7-6 has actually been around for a number of years.
[04:49.560 --> 04:54.420]  That was our first show October... I believe October 7th, 1988, was our first show.
[04:55.060 --> 05:09.360]  And it was an afternoon... it was scheduled to be an afternoon show in August of the same year, but because that first part of the program you heard was actually the transmitter not working at WBAI, because at that very moment, there was a fire in the Empire State Building,
[05:09.360 --> 05:11.320]  and we were knocked off the air.
[05:11.720 --> 05:14.140]  Literally two minutes before the debut edition.
[05:14.980 --> 05:16.760]  And it was only a special at that time.
[05:16.840 --> 05:17.500]  It wasn't a series.
[05:17.800 --> 05:28.240]  It was rescheduled to the late night hours of October 1988, and we just realized, not too long ago, 25 years ago, almost to the day.
[05:28.480 --> 05:29.280]  Almost to the day.
[05:29.840 --> 05:33.640]  This is Emmanuel for Off the Hook, joined tonight by...
[05:33.640 --> 05:34.220]  Mike?
[05:34.420 --> 05:34.760]  There you are.
[05:35.020 --> 05:35.180]  Hello.
[05:35.300 --> 05:35.980]  Didn't see you for a second.
[05:36.240 --> 05:36.680]  Rob T.
[05:36.780 --> 05:37.100]  Firefly?
[05:37.320 --> 05:37.780]  Good evening.
[05:37.920 --> 05:38.220]  Kyle?
[05:38.700 --> 05:39.220]  Hi there.
[05:39.800 --> 05:40.820]  Special guest, not Kevin.
[05:40.900 --> 05:41.260]  Welcome back.
[05:41.320 --> 05:41.740]  Hello.
[05:42.620 --> 05:44.280]  And on the phone, Bernie S.
[05:45.000 --> 05:46.260]  Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[05:46.660 --> 05:48.040]  Well, I'm sorry, folks.
[05:48.100 --> 05:48.780]  I sounded a little out of breath.
[05:48.920 --> 05:50.540]  We literally just ran up the hill to get here.
[05:51.300 --> 05:54.340]  Let me turn my 25-year-old self off there.
[05:55.600 --> 05:58.920]  Yeah, thanks to the NYPD who blocked the bridge for no reason at all.
[05:59.420 --> 06:01.460]  We had to really race to get here, but we made it.
[06:01.560 --> 06:02.260]  Somehow we made it.
[06:02.640 --> 06:06.980]  And I think that's indicative of the way things run here at this show, here at this radio station.
[06:08.020 --> 06:08.960]  And I don't know.
[06:09.020 --> 06:11.660]  You guys have any thoughts on the 25th anniversary?
[06:12.080 --> 06:12.480]  Bernie?
[06:12.880 --> 06:13.520]  Oh, go ahead, Mike.
[06:13.660 --> 06:16.200]  I think you're the only one here who was here for that show.
[06:16.360 --> 06:17.300]  Well, maybe.
[06:17.540 --> 06:19.280]  But, Bernie, were you listening at that time?
[06:19.760 --> 06:23.960]  I was listening occasionally when I could get it.
[06:24.460 --> 06:28.300]  But I wasn't always in New York, and it wasn't streaming at that time, was it?
[06:29.460 --> 06:33.060]  It wasn't streaming until the late 90s, I believe.
[06:33.300 --> 06:34.180]  That's when we started.
[06:34.780 --> 06:51.600]  When you started this show, Emanuel, and when you were trying to pitch the concept of it to the program director, I guess, and you were saying, it's going to be a radio show about telephones, did anybody look at you funny and say, how are you possibly going to talk an hour a week about telephones and telecommunications?
[06:51.720 --> 06:53.800]  How could you possibly fill that much airtime?
[06:53.800 --> 06:58.440]  Well, you know, it's interesting that you should say that, because, well, first of all, we did the special.
[06:58.600 --> 07:01.320]  It was only meant to be a special in October of 1988.
[07:01.520 --> 07:07.000]  Then it was, I believe, a couple of years later, we did a follow-up in 1990, I think, maybe 1989.
[07:07.760 --> 07:10.800]  I was doing fill-in programs on the radio station at all different hours.
[07:11.180 --> 07:25.460]  But it wasn't until I really tried to get a weekly series going that was more of a generic talk program that the then program director, who was once again the program director, Andrew Phillips, told me, no, this is a series.
[07:25.780 --> 07:26.980]  You should pursue this.
[07:27.320 --> 07:29.500]  And that's really how Off the Hook became a series.
[07:29.540 --> 07:34.180]  I saw it as a bunch of specials, focusing on the things that I was interested in.
[07:34.780 --> 07:39.100]  And I didn't see that there'd be that much to talk about for every single week.
[07:39.420 --> 07:41.940]  And credit to Andrew for seeing that when I couldn't.
[07:42.340 --> 07:43.660]  So, yeah, there you go.
[07:44.340 --> 07:44.700]  Wow.
[07:45.060 --> 07:47.160]  I'm sure when you pitched it to him, he thought, you know what?
[07:47.160 --> 07:54.340]  I have a feeling this show is going to go on for 25 years, gather more people, and eventually broadcast out of a studio borrowed from a college uptown.
[07:54.580 --> 07:55.760]  Well, it's quite a story.
[07:56.320 --> 08:01.360]  You know, back then, we were on 35th Street, close to Penn Station, the old 8th Avenue studios.
[08:01.500 --> 08:02.840]  Then we moved to Wall Street.
[08:02.960 --> 08:04.960]  And now, after Wall Street, we've moved up to Harlem.
[08:05.380 --> 08:10.120]  And we're hoping to move to Brooklyn, studios and all, in the near future.
[08:10.120 --> 08:13.560]  But that sort of, well, it very much depends on our listeners.
[08:13.780 --> 08:18.580]  WBAI has been through an awful lot in the last few years.
[08:18.580 --> 08:21.220]  Well, it was just about a year ago that Sandy hit.
[08:21.300 --> 08:23.400]  And I think that's when it all started to really unravel.
[08:24.380 --> 08:28.640]  Not having the studios to broadcast from was a big major part of that.
[08:29.040 --> 08:33.600]  But also just mounting expenses, things that the station just could not sustain.
[08:33.680 --> 08:39.600]  And you might have seen some stories in the newspaper about that throughout the media.
[08:39.600 --> 08:42.880]  They seem to take the light in saying that WBAI is going down the toilet.
[08:42.880 --> 08:45.920]  And we had to lay off most of our staff.
[08:46.040 --> 08:46.400]  All true.
[08:46.540 --> 08:48.140]  Not the toilet part, but the staff part.
[08:48.640 --> 08:51.560]  We did have to lay off a lot of people because we couldn't sustain it.
[08:51.740 --> 08:52.780]  It was impossible.
[08:53.360 --> 08:57.160]  The transmitter bill alone, $50,000 a month at the Empire State Building.
[08:57.340 --> 08:58.220]  Not on fire today.
[08:59.220 --> 09:03.780]  And believe me, when it was on fire 25 years ago, it was substantially less.
[09:04.580 --> 09:07.220]  It's gone up well above the rate of inflation.
[09:07.220 --> 09:10.780]  But you have to be on the Empire State Building if you want to reach the tri-state area.
[09:11.440 --> 09:14.240]  That or the New World Trade Center.
[09:14.480 --> 09:24.200]  Because there are all kinds of atmospheric and structural conditions that you'll run into with an FM signal, especially in a city like New York.
[09:24.440 --> 09:26.640]  It's extremely important to be as high as possible.
[09:27.400 --> 09:33.360]  So it's not really something that we can just back out of unless we want to cut our signal range substantially.
[09:33.360 --> 09:38.920]  And listen to the stations that are not on the Empire State Building and see how far their signal goes for.
[09:39.040 --> 09:42.120]  It's not nearly as far as what WBAI can do.
[09:42.260 --> 09:49.280]  So that right there is an essential expense that we have to continue paying every month, like it or not.
[09:49.580 --> 09:57.640]  There are still, believe it or not, leftover payments to make to the old landlord at Wall Street almost a year after we left that place.
[09:58.680 --> 10:00.300]  That will be out of the way hopefully soon.
[10:00.960 --> 10:04.560]  We have a minimal payment we have to make here at Harlem.
[10:05.380 --> 10:06.900]  But there are all kinds of other expenses.
[10:07.040 --> 10:13.460]  There is still a payroll to meet for essentials to keep the station on the air, to do the paperwork, send out the premiums.
[10:13.500 --> 10:16.200]  And I know a lot of people are going to be rolling their eyes about the premiums.
[10:16.260 --> 10:17.520]  Yeah, a lot of them are late.
[10:17.680 --> 10:19.460]  But they are going to be taken care of.
[10:19.460 --> 10:22.720]  The ones, if we're off the hook, we are monitoring every single one.
[10:23.100 --> 10:32.500]  And we expect to make substantial progress on the spring and summer fundraisers as far as getting the premiums out to you in the next week or so, I would say.
[10:33.780 --> 10:36.340]  And we have more premiums tonight.
[10:36.700 --> 10:37.520]  Can I say that?
[10:37.620 --> 10:39.480]  Well, I didn't mention yet that it's a fundraiser.
[10:39.560 --> 10:43.560]  It is the beginning of the autumn fundraiser, which is a scheduled fundraiser.
[10:43.560 --> 11:06.960]  And this is really the one that I think will decide what direction the station goes, because if we can meet our expenses, then we have a good shot at getting our own building in Brooklyn and kind of starting from the bottom again, from the basics, where we start building on what we had.
[11:06.960 --> 11:08.780]  I think we were just spending way too much.
[11:10.420 --> 11:11.940]  And basically, there are a lot of factions.
[11:12.080 --> 11:17.680]  There still are factions that attack each other with words and ideology and things like that.
[11:17.780 --> 11:18.660]  Hopefully, we've learned.
[11:18.840 --> 11:20.040]  Hopefully, we'll move past that.
[11:21.140 --> 11:23.140]  And maybe we can build a new BAI.
[11:23.220 --> 11:24.960]  But that depends on your help.
[11:26.280 --> 11:29.220]  Words and other things in lawsuits as well, the factions.
[11:29.720 --> 11:30.080]  Yeah.
[11:30.180 --> 11:30.680]  We're filing.
[11:31.000 --> 11:32.380]  I don't want to get into too much detail.
[11:32.500 --> 11:34.160]  In fact, I would like to do this.
[11:34.160 --> 11:40.040]  I'd like to open up the phone lines to listeners to call in and talk about the radio station, because I think that's important.
[11:41.960 --> 11:46.460]  But I also want to open up the pledge lines, because that is vital.
[11:46.480 --> 11:56.160]  If we don't get at least five more listeners this hour to call in, I would say our future is very much in jeopardy here.
[11:56.580 --> 11:58.160]  That's not an exaggeration.
[11:59.020 --> 12:02.140]  So, we have a number of things.
[12:02.140 --> 12:06.700]  I guess I can just go through the items, and then we can take some calls in just a little bit.
[12:07.120 --> 12:10.560]  But first of all, we have the WBAI Buddy System.
[12:10.560 --> 12:22.140]  That's where you pledge, I believe, for a pledge of $50, you'll get the Pacifica on a Stick, the best WBAI thumb drive gift for new members.
[12:22.140 --> 12:26.480]  Okay, so I'm a little confused here, because I am reading the $50 pledge.
[12:27.320 --> 12:31.700]  Okay, I'm going to read what it says in front of me, because this is the first time I've actually seen it in front of me, that is.
[12:32.200 --> 12:37.260]  For $50, best of WBAI thumb drive, which is a gift for all new members.
[12:37.360 --> 12:41.280]  If you're new to calling 516-620-3602, you'll get that.
[12:42.340 --> 12:48.540]  For $180, you'll get the 8-gigabyte thumb drive, which is 100 different speakers.
[12:48.540 --> 12:54.520]  It's a collection of 100 speakers of all sorts, relating to things that have been broadcast on this radio station.
[12:54.800 --> 12:57.960]  And you'll also get the aforementioned best of WBAI thumb drive.
[12:58.040 --> 13:05.320]  That's where pledge, $180, you'll get the best of WBAI thumb drive and the 8-gigabyte thumb drive with 100 speakers on it.
[13:05.320 --> 13:10.960]  Now, if you become a BAI buddy, this is what I was trying to say before, you'll get both.
[13:11.180 --> 13:15.560]  Both of those things, but you don't have to give us $108 right off the bat.
[13:15.580 --> 13:21.020]  You have to simply become a BAI buddy, and that means pledging $10 a month.
[13:21.500 --> 13:27.440]  So you'll have a recurring charge, $10 a month, and that makes you a sustaining member of WBAI.
[13:28.020 --> 13:29.960]  516-620-3602.
[13:29.960 --> 13:38.060]  That, in my opinion, is the most painless way of pledging a substantial amount to the radio station.
[13:38.240 --> 13:45.100]  It is... $180 is a substantial amount, but spread out over time, $10 a month, that's a pretty good deal for us.
[13:45.100 --> 13:46.020]  It's a good deal for you.
[13:46.160 --> 13:49.720]  And you get these incredible speaker collections.
[13:49.720 --> 13:51.160]  You get the best of BAI.
[13:51.240 --> 13:55.480]  You get all kinds of good feelings from supporting this place.
[13:55.580 --> 13:58.060]  516-620-3602.
[13:58.200 --> 13:58.580]  Yes, Bernie?
[13:59.420 --> 14:00.580]  I didn't say anything.
[14:00.640 --> 14:02.040]  Oh, but I know you want to say something.
[14:02.280 --> 14:03.400]  I do, I do.
[14:03.400 --> 14:19.880]  I just want to say that you were not speaking rhetorically when you said that the success of this pledge drive will likely define where this radio station is going in the near future.
[14:20.420 --> 14:23.320]  And I'm not using hyperbole's here either.
[14:23.540 --> 14:29.600]  But the station needs to survive, and it is not going to survive if this is not a successful fund drive.
[14:30.180 --> 14:35.400]  There's all kinds of things that the Pacific could do with this transmitter and this radio station and the license.
[14:35.400 --> 14:48.040]  But if people like this continue to be WBI with the kind of programming you hear every day, or at least every week when you're listening to this show, then you need to call this number.
[14:48.140 --> 14:48.800]  What's the number, Benjamin?
[14:49.860 --> 14:53.800]  The number is 516-620-3602.
[14:53.940 --> 14:56.060]  I actually have that number memorized now because I've said it so many times.
[14:56.160 --> 14:58.380]  516-620-3602.
[14:58.480 --> 15:08.040]  And what you'll get on the other end of the phone is a volunteer who will take your information and apply it to this fund drive.
[15:08.040 --> 15:22.100]  And if we get five or more people pledging only $10 a month during this hour, we will consider that successful, absolutely successful, in doing our bid to keep WBAI going and to keep off the hook on the air.
[15:22.180 --> 15:22.660]  Imagine this.
[15:22.740 --> 15:25.000]  We've been on the air 25 years tonight.
[15:25.580 --> 15:28.440]  Who would ever expect something like that to happen?
[15:28.440 --> 15:43.820]  Now, you know, we can look at the news, we can look at all the different tales of woe that you may have heard about the condition of the station and the future and the past and the conflicts and all that, and you could just write it off and say it's a big waste of time.
[15:43.940 --> 15:46.520]  But then, imagine 25 years ago.
[15:46.700 --> 15:50.660]  Would you have been able to say, this program is going to last for 25 years?
[15:50.740 --> 15:53.240]  Would you be able to say, this station is going to last 25 years?
[15:53.240 --> 16:01.160]  The fact of the matter is, this station has been around for 53 years, and that's longer, I think, than almost any other station on the dial in New York City.
[16:01.760 --> 16:08.160]  If there are other stations on the dial that have kept the same basic format for that period of time, I want to know who they are.
[16:08.360 --> 16:09.420]  I really would like to know.
[16:09.560 --> 16:21.900]  There might be one or two, but I guarantee you that the big popular commercial stations are not amongst them because they're the ones always going to the lowest common denominator, and that's not what we do here at WBAI.
[16:21.900 --> 16:28.280]  We try to be idealistic, and it's painful sometimes to be idealistic and to keep doing the things that you love.
[16:28.760 --> 16:30.500]  But that's what brings us in here every week.
[16:30.760 --> 16:32.900]  516-620-3602.
[16:33.360 --> 16:34.840]  Pledge whatever you can afford.
[16:34.980 --> 16:35.780]  Become a BAI buddy.
[16:35.920 --> 16:37.000]  $10 a month.
[16:37.280 --> 16:45.500]  Or you can pledge the entire $180 for the 8-gigabyte thumb drive or $50 for the Best of BAI thumb drive.
[16:45.520 --> 16:51.600]  You'll get all of it, though, for a pledge of $10 a month for the BAI buddy system.
[16:51.600 --> 16:53.640]  You can also pledge more than $10 a month, obviously.
[16:54.140 --> 17:03.360]  You can become a really popular member of WBAI by pledging bigger amounts.
[17:04.160 --> 17:06.080]  Every penny goes into this place.
[17:08.340 --> 17:10.060]  516-620-3602.
[17:10.520 --> 17:12.680]  So there's this piece of paper sitting next to me.
[17:12.740 --> 17:17.860]  I'm sitting in a seat I don't usually sit in, so I don't know if this piece of paper just arrived or I just never saw it before.
[17:17.860 --> 17:22.120]  But it is the inaugural issue of the WBAI folio.
[17:22.340 --> 17:27.280]  They used to be a printed program, you know, because you couldn't look up what you were going to hear on the Internet.
[17:27.500 --> 17:29.320]  So this is from January 1960.
[17:30.400 --> 17:39.160]  And it asked the reader, the listener, to forgive us our ineptitudes, because with our zeal, we will risk the ridiculous.
[17:39.360 --> 17:40.500]  We will not play it safe.
[17:40.680 --> 17:44.200]  We will be involved in all significant matters and promote none.
[17:44.200 --> 17:50.320]  And I think that is what the station, WBAI, has been doing since 1960.
[17:50.720 --> 17:53.300]  So let us continue doing that.
[17:54.200 --> 17:59.240]  Don't make us, you know, lose the station and give it to someone who would play it safe.
[17:59.760 --> 18:02.200]  Give us a call, 516-620-3602.
[18:02.860 --> 18:08.040]  And I really want to also stress the amazing thing about this BAI Buddy program.
[18:08.820 --> 18:11.240]  You just give a small amount of money every month.
[18:11.940 --> 18:13.220]  $10 would be great.
[18:13.320 --> 18:15.100]  If you can give more, that would be even greater.
[18:16.440 --> 18:18.080]  And it just automatically comes.
[18:18.320 --> 18:19.560]  WBAI automatically gets it.
[18:19.600 --> 18:23.960]  And what that means is that we have to spend less time asking you to donate again.
[18:24.120 --> 18:28.700]  So really, it's an all-around win, because WBAI gets the money.
[18:28.700 --> 18:33.080]  You don't have to make a massive outlay all at once or go into debt or anything like that.
[18:33.660 --> 18:35.580]  And it just keeps recurring.
[18:35.920 --> 18:40.660]  And if your financial situation changes and you need to cancel it, you can, of course, do that.
[18:40.680 --> 18:42.580]  It's not some kind of scam.
[18:42.820 --> 18:49.260]  But if you're willing to continue to support the station, you need do nothing.
[18:49.260 --> 18:52.880]  And we need not spend so much time asking you.
[18:53.000 --> 19:00.240]  So really, if you're in the position to join the WBAI Buddy program, and I think a lot of people are, then give us a call and do that.
[19:00.500 --> 19:28.060]  I would just like to think, if the person who wrote those words you just read is around, is still around, how they would feel knowing that people are calling in in 2013 to continue to support that radio station that went on the air back in 1960, that it still works up to this day with all the media conglomeration and digitization of things and the changing technologies,
[19:28.060 --> 19:47.780]  all the businesses that have gone under, all the really nice things that we've known that can't sustain themselves in our economy, to know that this place, WBAI, continues to survive despite all the adversity, all the hardship, we find a way, and that that way is through our listeners.
[19:48.200 --> 20:01.280]  To know that that is still going on 53 years later, I can't imagine how that person would feel knowing that, how the people involved back then, and there are still a few of them around that are still involved in one way or another.
[20:02.180 --> 20:05.360]  It must be a really heartening feeling when you just realize that.
[20:05.360 --> 20:19.080]  If you don't dive too deeply into it and get involved in the various battles that get waged constantly and when you have idealistic people, but if you just know that the station exists for a forum, for freedom of speech, that is a true accomplishment.
[20:19.240 --> 20:24.300]  And it's an accomplishment of you, the listener, as well as the people who run this place, the people who have founded this place.
[20:24.660 --> 20:29.940]  And I just hope we have another 53 years left, assuming the FM spectrum is around for that long.
[20:29.960 --> 20:32.600]  And if it's not, I'm sure we'll survive in one form or another.
[20:33.440 --> 20:35.840]  516-620-3602.
[20:36.280 --> 20:42.640]  Again, we have the system where we can't see the calls coming in, so we just have to assume that people are dialing in.
[20:43.120 --> 20:45.940]  It's nice when we can see the lights flashing, but we can't do that right now.
[20:46.060 --> 20:47.340]  One day, hopefully, we'll be able to do that.
[20:47.500 --> 21:01.080]  I do want to add, however, that we have our own special off-the-hook premiums that we are offering tonight, and we are only offering them tonight because these are rare, these will be gone, and we won't be offering them again.
[21:01.780 --> 21:05.260]  Kyle, you've been doing some work in the 2600 warehouse, I believe.
[21:05.260 --> 21:18.040]  Yeah, I've been digging through boxes and looking for gifts that we can contribute because we generally try to come up with good premiums, thank-you gifts that we think people would enjoy that are sort of personal from the show.
[21:18.260 --> 21:20.440]  And we have a couple items tonight.
[21:21.300 --> 21:24.700]  Well, we found things that we thought we didn't have anymore.
[21:24.940 --> 21:25.620]  Right, right, right.
[21:25.620 --> 21:30.560]  We were looking through, and I found some boxes of off-the-hook shirts and some commemorative t-shirts.
[21:30.760 --> 21:31.660]  Really interesting stuff.
[21:31.660 --> 21:39.260]  Yeah, the off-the-hook shirts are interesting because, well, we offered them years ago, and we thought we were done.
[21:39.360 --> 21:40.140]  We thought they were all gone.
[21:40.220 --> 21:43.880]  But we found a bunch in several...
[21:43.880 --> 21:46.040]  I'm going to read you the sizes that we still have.
[21:46.460 --> 21:48.100]  And we don't have very many in these sizes.
[21:48.320 --> 21:50.100]  Size small, S.
[21:50.940 --> 21:55.140]  Size medium, size XXL, and size XXXL.
[21:55.200 --> 21:58.340]  Those are the sizes that we have for the off-the-hook t-shirts.
[21:58.340 --> 22:01.220]  And, again, limited collector's items.
[22:01.220 --> 22:04.520]  We were offering those for a pledge of $50 tonight.
[22:04.680 --> 22:05.580]  Five zero.
[22:06.000 --> 22:09.220]  That's if you call and you pledge $50 right off the bat.
[22:09.360 --> 22:11.560]  516-620-3602.
[22:11.740 --> 22:14.540]  But, again, remember, you have to specify the size that you want.
[22:14.540 --> 22:17.900]  Whether it's small, medium, XXL, or XXXL.
[22:18.300 --> 22:20.300]  Ask for the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[22:20.440 --> 22:22.340]  516-620-3602.
[22:23.040 --> 22:24.320]  That's one thing we have.
[22:24.340 --> 22:26.220]  We found something else as well.
[22:26.220 --> 22:28.300]  And this surprised me.
[22:28.520 --> 22:33.240]  For those of you who are stamping your feet that we don't have size XL in anything.
[22:33.340 --> 22:35.040]  Well, we have size XL in this shirt.
[22:35.120 --> 22:37.320]  In fact, this shirt we only have size XL in.
[22:37.440 --> 22:39.260]  Again, for a pledge of $50.
[22:39.560 --> 22:41.680]  516-620-3602.
[22:41.860 --> 22:48.460]  We have a really historic t-shirt that we unveiled at Beyond Hope in 1997.
[22:49.540 --> 22:55.020]  And what this shirt is, it's kind of like a commemorative 13 years of 2600 magazine.
[22:55.280 --> 22:59.080]  I don't know why we thought 13 years was a particularly interesting number.
[22:59.240 --> 23:02.000]  But I guess probably because we had the Beyond Hope conference in 1997.
[23:02.000 --> 23:03.880]  And we just decided to put out a shirt as well.
[23:04.560 --> 23:13.920]  And what we have here are a bunch of newspaper clippings on the front with headlines such as, internet service is accused of violating users' privacy.
[23:14.040 --> 23:14.720]  Imagine that.
[23:15.260 --> 23:17.800]  Some Kevin Mitnick stories.
[23:18.000 --> 23:25.840]  Remember, Kevin Mitnick was in the news back then as the most dangerous person ever to have logged on to a computer anywhere.
[23:26.520 --> 23:29.500]  Hacker chips are a threat to society is another headline.
[23:30.120 --> 23:32.520]  Protest to greet communication bill.
[23:32.660 --> 23:37.360]  Opponents say rule on smut will limit free speech on internet.
[23:37.360 --> 23:37.920]  Sound familiar?
[23:38.060 --> 23:38.160]  Yeah.
[23:38.280 --> 23:44.760]  A lot of these articles turned into major news stories that continue to be talked about to this day.
[23:44.900 --> 23:49.120]  But on the back of this shirt, on the back we have kind of a timeline.
[23:49.300 --> 23:50.780]  13 years of 2600 magazine.
[23:51.320 --> 23:53.480]  I'm going to read from 1984.
[23:53.800 --> 23:57.660]  Basically, there's a different entry for every year from 1984 to 1997.
[23:58.020 --> 24:02.440]  And believe me, these shirts are something I thought I'd long seen the last of.
[24:02.760 --> 24:06.260]  We found a bunch of these in a box, only in size XL.
[24:06.260 --> 24:11.340]  And this is the only place you're going to be able to get them if you don't already have one.
[24:11.760 --> 24:13.900]  516-620-3602.
[24:13.960 --> 24:16.380]  Pledge of $50 gets you that particular shirt.
[24:16.820 --> 24:26.820]  The Historic Hacker T-shirt is what you should ask for when you call 516-620-3602 and pledge $50.
[24:27.300 --> 24:32.240]  And again, we have the off-the-hook T-shirts and the sizes that we mentioned also for a pledge of $50.
[24:32.240 --> 24:33.680]  So you can get both of them for $100.
[24:34.200 --> 24:40.920]  And it's a pretty good deal, I think, for something that didn't exist only a few days ago and will never exist again.
[24:41.060 --> 24:42.740]  516-620-3602.
[24:42.840 --> 24:42.960]  Okay.
[24:43.640 --> 24:44.120]  1984.
[24:44.860 --> 24:45.840]  This is what happened.
[24:45.920 --> 24:49.360]  The first issue of 2600 is mailed to around three dozen people.
[24:49.560 --> 24:50.520]  That's in January.
[24:50.520 --> 25:00.280]  In April, members of the 414s are placed on probation after pleading guilty to two misdemeanors involving hacking into systems the year before.
[25:00.500 --> 25:02.460]  The Legion of Doom is formed.
[25:02.680 --> 25:03.160]  That's right.
[25:03.260 --> 25:04.060]  April, 1984.
[25:04.300 --> 25:05.600]  Where would you have known that except here?
[25:06.300 --> 25:06.820]  May.
[25:07.100 --> 25:08.880]  Emanuel Goldstein of 2600 is indicted.
[25:09.120 --> 25:10.180]  Let's just skip over that one.
[25:10.580 --> 25:10.960]  July.
[25:11.580 --> 25:12.100]  2600.
[25:12.240 --> 25:12.960]  You'll have to get the shirt.
[25:12.960 --> 25:21.780]  2600 prints the famous TRW article, which gave many of their first glimpse of America's credit agencies from the hacker perspective.
[25:22.040 --> 25:25.340]  And in November, Richard Sanza of Newsweek.
[25:25.400 --> 25:26.260]  Anybody remember that name?
[25:26.460 --> 25:33.300]  Richard Sanza of Newsweek finds himself under attack from hackers nationwide for writing a non-flattering article on the hacker culture.
[25:33.300 --> 25:35.340]  I believe the phrase was teletrial.
[25:35.500 --> 25:36.440]  He was on teletrial.
[25:36.640 --> 25:38.860]  And that's just one of the many memories.
[25:38.860 --> 25:47.380]  Now, I'm reading from the back of a t-shirt here, and you'll probably have people walking up to your back and reading off of that and saying, wow, I didn't know that about hacker history.
[25:47.480 --> 25:53.700]  The first 13 years of 2600 documented on the back of a t-shirt, all sorts of newspaper clippings on the front.
[25:53.840 --> 25:58.100]  It's a white shirt with black lettering, and it's yours for a pledge of $50.
[25:59.000 --> 26:02.280]  Extremely rare, something we will not have after tonight.
[26:02.280 --> 26:12.960]  And, again, you can get this in size XL, or you can get one of the off-the-hook shirts in sizes SM2XL or 3XL.
[26:13.220 --> 26:20.200]  Those are the most recent off-the-hook shirts, which are also out of print, and we only have them available in that size in very limited numbers.
[26:20.340 --> 26:22.140]  516-620-3602.
[26:22.320 --> 26:22.680]  Rob T.
[26:22.760 --> 26:24.080]  Firefly, you designed that shirt, correct?
[26:24.340 --> 26:24.700]  I did.
[26:24.840 --> 26:25.160]  I did.
[26:25.200 --> 26:26.820]  I designed it a few years ago, I think.
[26:27.020 --> 26:28.940]  And, yeah, I thought these were extinct.
[26:29.040 --> 26:30.620]  I was surprised to learn that they were more in existence.
[26:30.620 --> 26:33.800]  And so, yeah, I still really think it's a nice design.
[26:34.140 --> 26:35.220]  It's based on a telephone.
[26:35.220 --> 26:36.160]  It's nicely illustrated.
[26:36.380 --> 26:41.380]  It's got the name of the show, the URL for the website for the show, and the frequency of the station.
[26:41.480 --> 26:43.280]  And I think it would look good on you.
[26:44.160 --> 26:45.500]  So if you call...
[26:45.500 --> 26:45.900]  What's that number?
[26:45.900 --> 26:47.640]  Do you mean me, or do you mean the listener in general?
[26:47.860 --> 26:48.820]  I mean you, too.
[26:48.960 --> 26:50.060]  I think you should have one as well.
[26:50.140 --> 26:50.720]  Oh, I'd like one.
[26:50.880 --> 26:58.060]  So if you want to have one, Emmanuel, you can call 516-620-3602 and get hold of one.
[26:58.060 --> 27:05.200]  Or if you're listening to this after the fact, if you're not listening live, you can still go to give, the numeral 2, WBAI.org.
[27:05.480 --> 27:07.780]  And if there are any left, you'll be able to get one there.
[27:08.400 --> 27:08.620]  Okay.
[27:08.960 --> 27:10.840]  516-620-3602.
[27:10.860 --> 27:11.120]  That's right.
[27:11.140 --> 27:16.320]  If there are any left over after the show tonight, you will be able to get them by going to that...
[27:16.320 --> 27:17.160]  What was that website again?
[27:17.820 --> 27:22.780]  It's the word give, the number 2, and the letters WBAI.org.
[27:23.360 --> 27:25.560]  And pledging $50 per shirt.
[27:25.900 --> 27:27.780]  And, yeah, you might say $50 for a shirt.
[27:27.920 --> 27:28.380]  What gives there?
[27:28.440 --> 27:31.940]  Keep in mind, folks, we've changed things a bit here at the radio station.
[27:31.940 --> 27:39.720]  It had become something like the Shop at Home Network, where you'd listen to a show and all kinds of things were being given away.
[27:40.340 --> 27:42.820]  And some of it was good stuff.
[27:42.820 --> 27:44.120]  Some of it wasn't so great.
[27:44.800 --> 27:48.500]  But a lot of it, a lot of it, the station had to pay for.
[27:48.800 --> 27:50.160]  Yeah, people don't really know this.
[27:50.240 --> 27:53.480]  The station had to pay a discounted amount, but a significant amount.
[27:53.480 --> 28:00.420]  So, if somebody pledged, say, $75 for a book, and the station had to pay $20 for that book, okay, the station's only making $55.
[28:01.680 --> 28:05.540]  But the way we've done things that are off the hook, we believe that things should be donated.
[28:05.700 --> 28:09.440]  And everything that we have ever pledged here on this radio station has been a donation.
[28:09.440 --> 28:11.360]  We have never asked for anything in return.
[28:12.460 --> 28:16.740]  And that's how I would hope other shows, other producers would do things.
[28:16.780 --> 28:19.160]  And I think that's the direction we're moving in now.
[28:19.160 --> 28:23.620]  But what you have to remember as a listener is that when you call, you're not calling to make a purchase.
[28:23.800 --> 28:25.960]  You're not calling because we're the Shop at Home Network.
[28:26.100 --> 28:28.080]  You're calling because you believe in WBAI.
[28:28.180 --> 28:29.360]  You want to support this place.
[28:29.480 --> 28:36.400]  And we're thanking you by sending you something that we find, that we dig up, that we create, whatever.
[28:36.560 --> 28:40.740]  It's something that we want to give to you as a gift, as a thank you for your generous donation.
[28:40.940 --> 28:43.080]  So, that's why a t-shirt costs $50.
[28:43.760 --> 28:44.500]  But you know what?
[28:44.540 --> 28:46.400]  It's not a t-shirt that you can buy anywhere else.
[28:46.400 --> 28:49.740]  So, it really is not a bad deal by any stretch of the imagination.
[28:49.920 --> 28:52.460]  516-620-3602.
[28:52.560 --> 28:58.060]  Get the Historic Hacker t-shirt or get the Off the Hook t-shirt, either for a pledge of $50.
[28:58.400 --> 29:03.480]  Or you can get the Best of BAI Thumb Drive for a pledge of $50.
[29:03.480 --> 29:06.980]  The 8GB Thumb Drive 100 Speaker Collection for $180.
[29:07.520 --> 29:14.480]  And if you become a BAI buddy, $10 or more a month, all you got to do is call 516-620-3602.
[29:14.900 --> 29:20.380]  And you'll get a charge on your credit card for $10 or however much you wish to donate.
[29:20.840 --> 29:27.840]  And that way, that way you really are helping out and not cutting off your food supply for the next couple of weeks.
[29:27.940 --> 29:29.900]  I have a logistical question, Emmanuel.
[29:30.060 --> 29:30.220]  Go ahead.
[29:30.220 --> 29:30.960]  So, people call.
[29:31.040 --> 29:34.540]  They call 516-620-3602.
[29:34.800 --> 29:40.460]  And they only have a little bit of time left to get these Off the Hook t-shirts, right?
[29:41.240 --> 29:42.160]  Is it just tonight?
[29:42.320 --> 29:42.940]  It's just tonight.
[29:43.100 --> 29:48.040]  And, well, if there are any left over, you'll be able to get them at gift2wbai.org as well.
[29:48.100 --> 29:51.360]  So, that's sad for people who maybe not listen live.
[29:51.360 --> 29:52.420]  You can still call.
[29:52.420 --> 30:00.840]  But if you're not listening live, if you're one of those internet people that we hear so much about, you can still call 516-620-3602.
[30:00.960 --> 30:05.100]  Maybe if you're overseas, you have to dial, you know, one first for the United States.
[30:05.500 --> 30:07.880]  And pledge for the WBAI premiums.
[30:07.960 --> 30:12.280]  You can join the WBAI buddy program from anywhere in the world.
[30:12.280 --> 30:25.060]  So, even if you're not listening live, even if we're the only thing on WBAI that you listen to, we can only survive in an environment like this where there are other programs being produced.
[30:25.300 --> 30:32.020]  So, people who sometimes are not able to pledge because of scheduling, this is your opportunity.
[30:32.180 --> 30:34.240]  516-620-3602.
[30:34.400 --> 30:35.780]  Call anytime, but call now.
[30:36.260 --> 30:42.320]  Yeah, calling now would be good because then we'll see, we get a little email update when people call in.
[30:42.460 --> 30:44.540]  But when the next person calls in, how about this?
[30:44.640 --> 30:47.900]  When the next person calls in, pledges, and we get that update.
[30:48.500 --> 30:50.220]  Oh, and as I said that, we got an update.
[30:50.340 --> 30:50.980]  Okay, you know what?
[30:51.480 --> 30:54.980]  I'm not going to torture listeners by making someone else call in.
[30:55.040 --> 30:55.780]  But please, call in.
[30:56.120 --> 30:57.300]  We're going to take phone calls.
[30:57.400 --> 30:59.120]  We want to talk to our listeners as well.
[30:59.300 --> 31:00.080]  Get your opinion.
[31:00.220 --> 31:03.960]  Get you to get other listeners to call in and support this place.
[31:03.960 --> 31:07.300]  Or if you think this place should be just sold to Clear Channel, tell us why.
[31:07.420 --> 31:07.840]  But you know what?
[31:08.820 --> 31:12.800]  Let's make a deal here where we don't have long speeches.
[31:13.000 --> 31:17.820]  We make it quick and no personal attacks on people who you think are responsible for the whole thing going bad.
[31:18.780 --> 31:21.360]  Because everybody has their own theory.
[31:21.620 --> 31:26.360]  And as we said, there's all kinds of battling groups and factions.
[31:26.420 --> 31:29.340]  And this has been going on since day one of WBAI, I'm sure.
[31:30.560 --> 31:38.360]  And we try to see above all that because, and I think many, many people do, the ultimate mission of this place is a noble one.
[31:38.460 --> 31:43.760]  And it's one that we all need to come together several times a year and focus.
[31:44.040 --> 31:53.380]  And if we had been doing this the whole time, if there hadn't been warring factions, people filing lawsuits and horrible things like that, we would be in a much better position now.
[31:53.460 --> 31:54.500]  There's no question about that.
[31:54.500 --> 31:57.460]  But it's not too late, despite what you might have read in the mass media.
[31:58.060 --> 32:00.060]  The door has not closed on BAI.
[32:00.220 --> 32:01.360]  We are still here.
[32:01.820 --> 32:09.140]  And we intend to go other places and get stronger and get new voices involved and have a really bright future.
[32:09.240 --> 32:11.300]  And I think that's what it's really all about.
[32:11.620 --> 32:20.440]  Okay, so the phone number to call in, which is already ringing, so I don't know why I even bother giving it out, but it's 212-650-5782, and we'd like to hear your opinions.
[32:20.580 --> 32:28.440]  But more importantly, right now, we need as many people as possible to call 516-620-3602, pledge whatever you can afford.
[32:28.620 --> 32:33.040]  Again, we have the Historic Hacker t-shirt for a pledge of $50, size XL.
[32:33.120 --> 32:39.440]  Or we have the Off The Hook t-shirt, size is SM2XL or 3XL.
[32:39.480 --> 32:43.700]  Those are the only sizes we have, and they're rare, and it's a one-time thing.
[32:45.300 --> 32:58.260]  $50, you can get as many as you want, 516-620-3602, or become a BAI buddy and get the thumb drive collection of WBAI speakers for a pledge of $10 or more a month.
[32:58.460 --> 33:01.100]  Talk to the people at 516-620-3602.
[33:01.180 --> 33:02.540]  I'm sure they'll be happy to work something out.
[33:02.620 --> 33:03.380]  Let's take a phone call.
[33:03.740 --> 33:06.440]  212-650-5782.
[33:06.720 --> 33:07.020]  Good evening.
[33:07.160 --> 33:08.120]  You're on Off The Hook.
[33:08.880 --> 33:09.240]  Yeah.
[33:09.720 --> 33:10.580]  Hi, got to speak up.
[33:12.120 --> 33:21.080]  Yes, you know, I've always felt that there was a mole, that there was a plant inside WBAI.
[33:21.500 --> 33:22.180]  A plant?
[33:22.300 --> 33:22.480]  You're saying?
[33:22.580 --> 33:25.500]  Okay, I really hope you can speak up louder than this, because you're so, so very low.
[33:25.600 --> 33:26.500]  Somebody was...
[33:26.500 --> 33:27.100]  There's a plant.
[33:27.200 --> 33:27.680]  We have a mole.
[33:27.860 --> 33:29.100]  We have a stool pigeon, you're saying.
[33:30.100 --> 33:32.680]  Several people planted there to destroy the station.
[33:32.980 --> 33:33.340]  Oh, yeah.
[33:34.480 --> 33:36.460]  So, it's not just inside faction.
[33:36.580 --> 33:47.820]  I think it's something similar to, like, what happened with Malcolm X, you know, and the nation of Israel and how the FBI had, you know, worked them against each other.
[33:48.100 --> 33:50.280]  And I think that's really what's been inside.
[33:50.300 --> 33:55.900]  It's an interesting theory and not one that's completely far-fetched, because think about it.
[33:55.960 --> 33:58.000]  We are a radio station that has open doors.
[33:58.000 --> 34:04.300]  People can come in here and learn radio and get on the air themselves and become a part of it.
[34:04.460 --> 34:14.640]  So, how hard would it be for somebody who wants to destroy the place to simply send somebody in who is dedicated to disrupting things, to making it all go wrong?
[34:14.960 --> 34:21.460]  The thing that counters that, I think more than anything else, is having more of us than them.
[34:21.680 --> 34:27.160]  And us versus them being people who believe in the radio station versus people who don't believe in the radio station.
[34:27.160 --> 34:29.280]  And that's really as simple as that.
[34:29.320 --> 34:34.480]  It doesn't have to be reduced to what ideology you subscribe to.
[34:34.540 --> 34:35.280]  You can be conservative.
[34:35.280 --> 34:35.980]  You can be liberal.
[34:36.120 --> 34:36.600]  You can be whatever.
[34:36.600 --> 34:42.100]  As long as you believe WBAI is a forum of free speech and deserves to exist, then you're one of us.
[34:42.440 --> 34:55.360]  And I would hope people would call 516-620-3602 and voice that support and keep this place going, because there is no more valuable bastion of freedom of speech on the dial in New York.
[34:55.580 --> 34:56.760]  Anybody know of one?
[34:56.760 --> 34:57.800]  Any of you guys know of one?
[34:57.980 --> 34:58.780]  I'm pretty sure.
[34:58.940 --> 34:59.540]  A lot of blank stares?
[34:59.660 --> 35:01.080]  We would have heard of it by now.
[35:01.240 --> 35:02.100]  Yeah, I think so too.
[35:02.280 --> 35:10.420]  I'm sure I don't know of one that's managed to stay on the air for almost 54 years just based on its listeners thinking it's worth chipping in and helping it happen.
[35:10.500 --> 35:11.560]  It is based on our listeners.
[35:11.680 --> 35:14.820]  And by the way, nobody has called since I opened up the phone lines.
[35:15.040 --> 35:23.900]  And that's something that I was hoping we'd see a lot of people calling in and pledging while we open up the forum and talk about the radio station as well.
[35:24.000 --> 35:38.380]  Because I'm supposed to be getting funds, getting people calling in, getting the station paid for so that we can continue doing the things that we do for the rest of the year and hopefully having a stronger voice and a more solid one.
[35:38.980 --> 35:42.960]  In order to do that, though, we need people calling in 516-620-3602.
[35:43.020 --> 35:45.660]  Remember, we have the historic t-shirts, $50 each.
[35:46.100 --> 35:48.380]  We have WBAI Buddy, $10 a month.
[35:48.620 --> 35:49.900]  All kinds of options.
[35:50.040 --> 35:52.120]  516-620-3602.
[35:52.460 --> 35:53.900]  But now let's take a listener phone call.
[35:53.900 --> 35:54.340]  Good evening.
[35:54.480 --> 35:55.360]  You're on Off the Hook.
[35:56.700 --> 36:06.480]  Hey, I just wanted to ask a question about car security and specifically the drive-by-wire car systems.
[36:06.780 --> 36:08.900]  And ordinarily, we'd be able to talk about that.
[36:09.020 --> 36:11.060]  But today, we're talking about the radio station.
[36:11.200 --> 36:12.580]  We're talking about the fundraiser.
[36:12.680 --> 36:15.240]  And I do want to talk about these things.
[36:15.500 --> 36:18.240]  Normally, Off the Hook is designed just for that.
[36:18.460 --> 36:21.760]  And what other radio show around can do that?
[36:21.880 --> 36:23.760]  Well, the radio station has the ability for this.
[36:23.760 --> 36:25.900]  But unfortunately, tonight...
[36:25.900 --> 36:30.380]  Well, not unfortunately, because we do need to look at ourselves occasionally and see if we're going in the right direction.
[36:31.480 --> 36:36.200]  Tonight, we want to focus on this place and what the future holds.
[36:36.760 --> 36:38.400]  Am I right in that, folks?
[36:38.500 --> 36:39.320]  Am I being too harsh?
[36:39.580 --> 36:40.340]  Yes, absolutely.
[36:40.700 --> 36:46.500]  I can't think of another station like WBAI in the sense that there are good people here and that there are good things ahead.
[36:46.920 --> 36:51.620]  I've seen just in the past couple of years, I've been involved with a lot of turmoil, a lot of craziness happen.
[36:51.620 --> 37:05.240]  But the commitment of the people that do volunteer and dedicate a lot of their time to the station is really blowing me away with that real zeal and fight that is still here at the station.
[37:05.240 --> 37:08.200]  And I'm excited for the things that could be possible.
[37:08.200 --> 37:16.920]  But we can't really see those things at fruition unless people give us a call and become a buddy, become a sustaining member.
[37:16.920 --> 37:18.760]  And we need your support.
[37:19.000 --> 37:22.640]  So call in, get one of these great shirts, and make your pledge.
[37:22.820 --> 37:26.080]  516-620-3602.
[37:26.260 --> 37:30.920]  I'm going to read another selection from 1991 off the back of this T-shirt that we're offering tonight.
[37:31.100 --> 37:31.760]  Pledge of $50.
[37:32.100 --> 37:41.640]  The rare 13th anniversary of 2600 magazine T-shirt that we found in the warehouse that we thought was long gone, that we only have a few.
[37:42.260 --> 37:43.560]  It's yours for a pledge of $50.
[37:43.960 --> 37:44.980]  You support the radio station.
[37:45.120 --> 37:48.980]  We donate it to the station so that you can get a thank you gift from us.
[37:49.080 --> 37:51.540]  516-620-3602.
[37:52.800 --> 37:53.200]  1991.
[37:53.760 --> 37:54.520]  Let's see what we have here.
[37:54.920 --> 37:55.320]  Spring.
[37:55.480 --> 37:56.140]  The spring of 1991.
[37:56.440 --> 37:59.780]  The book Cyberpunk is published by John Markoff and Katie Hefner.
[38:00.260 --> 38:06.340]  In June, Len Rose is sentenced to a year in prison for having unauthorized AT&T Unix source code.
[38:06.820 --> 38:09.280]  That's the kind of thing that we were dealing with back then.
[38:09.280 --> 38:13.600]  And 13 years, it seemed like a long time when we put this shirt out.
[38:13.620 --> 38:14.360]  I remember this.
[38:15.060 --> 38:21.480]  It seemed like we've been doing it for quite a while, but it's now even, well, it's about 13 years since then, I guess, right?
[38:21.620 --> 38:22.540]  Since 1997?
[38:23.540 --> 38:25.200]  Yeah, it's more than that.
[38:25.380 --> 38:26.120]  It's about 16.
[38:26.240 --> 38:27.500]  Yeah, I'm losing track.
[38:27.720 --> 38:31.720]  I'm mixing up our 20th anniversary tonight and the 30th anniversary of 2600.
[38:31.880 --> 38:34.360]  So, yeah, a lot has been going on.
[38:34.360 --> 38:46.140]  Again, you can get this t-shirt or you can get one of the off-the-hook t-shirts in the sizes that we listed, small, medium, double XL, triple XL, or the Historic Hacker shirt in size XL.
[38:46.320 --> 38:49.140]  Pledge of $50, 516-620-3602.
[38:49.520 --> 38:51.540]  Become a BAI buddy, $10 a month.
[38:51.700 --> 38:54.160]  516-620-3602.
[38:54.660 --> 38:58.040]  I see the listener call-in line is ringing nonstop.
[38:58.040 --> 39:03.460]  I just hope, I just hope that we're getting pledges on the other line as well.
[39:03.600 --> 39:15.940]  If, we're going to take this phone call, and if we don't get more calls on the pledge line, then we're going to have to just resort to talking about the radio station ourselves and getting people to call in at whatever expense.
[39:16.760 --> 39:20.020]  Okay, I've succeeded in losing the listener by doing this.
[39:20.580 --> 39:22.460]  Bernie, I know you can get a listener back just by talking.
[39:22.580 --> 39:23.980]  You'll make that horrible noise.
[39:24.060 --> 39:24.620]  We'll come over the air.
[39:24.620 --> 39:27.060]  Well, I'll talk if you twist my arm, Emmanuel.
[39:27.720 --> 39:31.480]  I have only been involved with this show since, I think, the early 90s.
[39:31.640 --> 39:47.920]  But it has been an amazing experience, and I feel honored to be someone who can, every week, share our interesting anecdotes about what's going on in the world of hacking and telecommunications and security and the internet and privacy.
[39:49.460 --> 40:04.560]  The content of this show has surprised even me in its breadth and what it is covering, and the number of the people we get on the show that, myself excluded, who really know what they're talking about, is really precious.
[40:04.760 --> 40:08.360]  And it's a great resource that we know a lot of people listen to.
[40:08.360 --> 40:19.720]  But for it to stay on the air, and this is not just a threat or just hyperbole, the station really needs help to stay on the air badly at this point.
[40:19.720 --> 40:31.840]  So I encourage everyone who's listening, even if you've pledged before, I know you've heard this before, but this is really critical that you call 516-620-3602.
[40:31.840 --> 40:36.860]  We will donate gifts as an incentive, but really, this radio station is the incentive.
[40:37.040 --> 40:52.440]  There's the t-shirts, like classic shirts you can't buy anywhere, the old 1997 from Beyond Hope t-shirt with a 13 years history of Off the Hook, or you can get the Historic Off the Hook t-shirt that you can't get anymore.
[40:52.580 --> 40:55.260]  There's just these few left that were found in the 2600 warehouse.
[40:55.520 --> 41:01.820]  A $50 pledge, you're really buying this radio station, keeping it on the air, 516-620-3602.
[41:02.320 --> 41:02.720]  Okay.
[41:02.880 --> 41:05.200]  I'm going to read a little bit more from the t-shirt.
[41:05.280 --> 41:07.660]  By the way, thank you for the people who have called in on the pledge line.
[41:07.740 --> 41:11.840]  I do see some results there, but the more, the better.
[41:12.020 --> 41:18.360]  Again, remember, five new members an hour is what we're shooting for here, 516-620-3602.
[41:18.560 --> 41:23.600]  You can become a new member just by pledging $10 a month, recurring charge.
[41:23.820 --> 41:32.040]  And if you pledge for 18 months, you'll get the 8-gigabyte thumb drive with 100 different speakers highlighted on that.
[41:32.300 --> 41:34.460]  It's a lot of audio.
[41:34.780 --> 41:37.120]  You'll also get the best of WBAI thumb drive.
[41:37.200 --> 41:49.200]  If you pledge $50, you'll get the Off the Hook t-shirt in your choice, the rare, out-of-print Off the Hook t-shirt we thought we didn't have any more of in either small, medium, XXL, or XXXL.
[41:49.320 --> 41:56.280]  Or you can get the Historic Hacker shirt that I'm about to read something from, from 1997, only in size XL.
[41:56.280 --> 41:59.980]  Or you can get both shirts in whatever size you want for a pledge of $100.
[42:00.500 --> 42:06.360]  The important thing is that you call 516-620-3602 and pledge whatever you can to keep this place going.
[42:06.600 --> 42:21.600]  I can't stress enough, this is the fun drive that matters more than I think any other that we've ever done because there's all kinds of talk about what could happen if we don't sustain ourselves even after laying off so many people, even after moving out of Wall Street.
[42:21.600 --> 42:21.660]  Right.
[42:22.260 --> 42:24.080]  There aren't many options left.
[42:24.500 --> 42:36.880]  There's talk of all sorts of possibilities, including leasing the signal to somebody else, which I think would be a tragedy as far as just not having our voices on, having some other entity on.
[42:37.020 --> 42:40.060]  This is what happens, though, in the world of radio.
[42:40.740 --> 42:43.180]  You have to be able to sustain yourself.
[42:43.320 --> 42:44.180]  We don't have commercials.
[42:44.180 --> 42:45.560]  We can have commercials.
[42:45.560 --> 42:49.780]  We have a non-commercial radio license, and it goes against the Pacifica charter.
[42:49.940 --> 42:52.640]  We cannot have commercials and BWBAI.
[42:53.240 --> 42:56.540]  So the alternative to that is listener support.
[42:56.680 --> 43:01.340]  In fact, we're the first radio station anywhere to reach out to listeners to ask for their help.
[43:01.460 --> 43:02.020]  That's true.
[43:02.280 --> 43:05.580]  When we went on the air back in 1960, no one else had done that.
[43:06.180 --> 43:10.100]  And I think that's something that deserves some kind of recognition.
[43:10.100 --> 43:13.740]  And what better way to recognize that than to give us a call and show your support.
[43:13.840 --> 43:16.780]  516-620-3602.
[43:17.340 --> 43:21.960]  Let's go to 1986 on the back of the historic hacker T-shirt.
[43:22.160 --> 43:25.520]  The private sector... that was our BBS back then.
[43:25.820 --> 43:26.640]  Yeah, we had a BBS.
[43:27.240 --> 43:29.020]  300 baud, 1,200 baud, I believe.
[43:29.520 --> 43:36.480]  They returned to operation in February on two floppies after the authorities broke the hard drive.
[43:36.900 --> 43:44.360]  The system operator is forced to plead guilty to possession of burglary tools in the form of a program capable of making tones.
[43:44.360 --> 43:46.720]  And that program had been uploaded by a user.
[43:47.280 --> 43:49.280]  Yeah, that's how justice worked.
[43:49.380 --> 43:50.680]  That's how justice still works.
[43:51.200 --> 43:59.500]  In March of 1986, Telepub 86 is held in New York, bringing members of the hacker community together from around the country.
[43:59.600 --> 44:01.100]  Attendance is around two dozen.
[44:01.600 --> 44:05.040]  Tap Magazine is officially pronounced dead by Cheshire Catalyst.
[44:05.380 --> 44:06.340]  I remember that meeting.
[44:06.500 --> 44:07.040]  I remember that well.
[44:07.160 --> 44:10.080]  I've... I met people there that I know to this day.
[44:10.360 --> 44:11.680]  And that's an incredible thing.
[44:11.780 --> 44:13.560]  That's how these gatherings work.
[44:14.160 --> 44:16.660]  July 2600 is struck by lightning.
[44:17.100 --> 44:19.520]  The first... It's true.
[44:19.700 --> 44:24.280]  We got a direct hit and lost a computer and a bunch of other things as well.
[44:24.920 --> 44:28.420]  The first SummerCon is held in St. Louis.
[44:28.640 --> 44:30.760]  That was a hacker gathering, a traditional hacker gathering.
[44:30.860 --> 44:33.900]  The first one, 1986, held in St. Louis in July.
[44:34.120 --> 44:36.200]  And in December, Bernie S.
[44:36.380 --> 44:38.480]  writes his first letter to 2600.
[44:38.860 --> 44:41.320]  Yes, Bernie, you're... You're on the T-shirt.
[44:43.760 --> 44:44.400]  Oh, well.
[44:44.480 --> 44:45.460]  I don't even remember what it was.
[44:45.540 --> 44:46.020]  What was it?
[44:46.220 --> 44:46.660]  Well, I don't know.
[44:46.680 --> 44:50.040]  I don't have a copy of the 1986 edition, but we'll find it.
[44:50.120 --> 44:51.360]  We can read it if you want to be embarrassed.
[44:51.760 --> 44:53.680]  I think I know... I think I remember that.
[44:53.800 --> 45:04.580]  It was about how to write to AT&T long lines and social engineer them and giving you this beautiful, huge wall map of all the undersea telecommunications cables.
[45:04.840 --> 45:06.360]  I think I gave you one of those maps.
[45:06.460 --> 45:07.080]  Yes, you did.
[45:07.220 --> 45:07.820]  Kyle, you're nodding.
[45:08.000 --> 45:09.320]  Did you read this recently?
[45:09.520 --> 45:15.040]  Yeah, I've been archiving and I've had the ability to go through some of those old issues, the original copies of them.
[45:15.360 --> 45:21.300]  And through that, I stumbled upon your letter to the magazine, your very first letter, and it was in 1986.
[45:21.780 --> 45:22.520]  How about that?
[45:23.140 --> 45:23.540]  All right.
[45:23.600 --> 45:28.000]  Well, listen, we want to open it up to listeners to call in 212-650-5782.
[45:28.120 --> 45:32.200]  Tell us your feelings about where the station is, where it's going, the future, that kind of thing.
[45:32.300 --> 45:32.980]  Do you support it?
[45:33.040 --> 45:33.780]  Do you not support it?
[45:34.520 --> 45:38.640]  Say something to get somebody else to call in and support the station, assuming that you do support it.
[45:39.140 --> 45:46.160]  And if you want to support WBAI, the number to call, which is extremely important, 516-620-3602.
[45:46.540 --> 45:50.880]  Get one of the Historic Hacker t-shirts that are only available tonight.
[45:51.100 --> 45:54.880]  Pledge of $50, 516-620-3602.
[45:55.120 --> 46:02.060]  You can also become a BAI buddy, pledging $10 or more a month and sustaining the place that way.
[46:02.560 --> 46:04.560]  It's extremely important.
[46:04.680 --> 46:07.600]  516-620-3602.
[46:07.740 --> 46:11.640]  Oh, we just lost a call on the call-in line, and so that line is wide open.
[46:11.760 --> 46:14.060]  212-650-5782.
[46:14.260 --> 46:14.980]  And here we go.
[46:15.040 --> 46:16.160]  Is that horrible noise?
[46:16.160 --> 46:16.700]  Listen to this.
[46:17.820 --> 46:19.880]  Can't make that noise go away when a call is coming in.
[46:20.380 --> 46:21.460]  Let's take this call.
[46:21.540 --> 46:21.840]  Good evening.
[46:22.000 --> 46:22.680]  You're on Off the Hook.
[46:23.580 --> 46:23.980]  Yes.
[46:24.060 --> 46:24.640]  Good evening.
[46:24.960 --> 46:26.600]  I'd just like to encourage everybody.
[46:26.600 --> 46:32.580]  I have just become a WBAI buddy, and I'd like to encourage everybody else to do so.
[46:32.960 --> 46:39.480]  And back in the early 90s, does everybody remember what DTMF also stood for?
[46:39.740 --> 46:47.660]  It was, it was dumb terminal monaural function, not just dual-tone multi-frequency.
[46:47.960 --> 46:48.140]  Really?
[46:48.220 --> 46:48.800]  I didn't know that.
[46:49.160 --> 46:49.380]  Yes.
[46:49.780 --> 46:52.420]  Dumb terminal monaural function.
[46:52.740 --> 46:53.780]  Mono function.
[46:54.000 --> 46:54.980]  Just did one thing.
[46:55.420 --> 46:56.980]  Green screen monitor and all.
[46:57.720 --> 46:58.520]  Well, that's interesting.
[46:58.600 --> 46:59.440]  I had no idea.
[46:59.700 --> 47:03.300]  Now, tell us something about what your history is using this.
[47:03.920 --> 47:06.500]  I grew up in customer service.
[47:06.880 --> 47:08.780]  It was one of my first real jobs.
[47:08.960 --> 47:16.980]  And I saw the evolution of the dumb terminal to PC use as we are today.
[47:17.340 --> 47:29.100]  So it's, I've seen it grow throughout the years, but I've, I mean, there were people that were just dedicated to, you jump from one desk to another and one terminal to another to do different things, different jobs.
[47:29.420 --> 47:35.420]  And it was just kind of crazy way back in the late 90s or late 80s and early 90s.
[47:35.600 --> 47:37.780]  Were these type of systems used in point of sale?
[47:39.160 --> 47:41.900]  Sales, client service, customer service.
[47:42.100 --> 47:43.020]  So all kinds of things.
[47:43.500 --> 47:44.260]  Things like that.
[47:44.420 --> 47:51.640]  But everybody, you know, they all sat at one specific terminal to do one specific task.
[47:51.640 --> 47:53.800]  No alt tab back then.
[47:54.720 --> 47:55.360]  Right.
[47:55.580 --> 47:55.820]  Wow.
[47:56.140 --> 47:59.740]  So they had limited commands and limited functions in just their job.
[47:59.820 --> 48:04.400]  You could easily say that's not my department and really mean it because you're exactly, exactly.
[48:04.840 --> 48:08.140]  It was, it was funny because back then I was using a laptop PC.
[48:08.140 --> 48:13.620]  I was a PBX operator back then and a visually impaired PBX operator.
[48:13.880 --> 48:22.900]  And I actually had two things running in tandem in DOS and was able to switch between them, thank God.
[48:23.120 --> 48:28.020]  I knew enough how to do them and became proficient at it.
[48:28.100 --> 48:30.460]  And now they've got me wearing two headsets simultaneously.
[48:30.860 --> 48:31.160]  Wow.
[48:31.280 --> 48:40.960]  Thank God for my broadcasting background because I would never be able to do that customer service without the broadcasting, the IFB in one ear and the caller in the other.
[48:41.160 --> 48:41.380]  Uh-huh.
[48:41.840 --> 48:45.040]  Well, listen, sir, I want to thank you so much for your pledge and for supporting WBAI.
[48:45.160 --> 48:49.140]  Can you tell us quickly, before we move on to the next call, why you support WBAI?
[48:49.440 --> 48:53.100]  I love the format and I love off the hook.
[48:53.320 --> 49:04.140]  I mean, I've been a phone freak since who knows when, uh, know all about 2600 Hertz and what it does, what it did, what it used to do and loved what it does.
[49:04.260 --> 49:09.980]  Love the, uh, love the philosophy, love, uh, all you guys and what, uh, you stand for.
[49:10.300 --> 49:23.440]  And, uh, you know, like you were saying earlier, who knew what this show was going to do, uh, that one night and it just expanded, uh, to another week and a week and a month and a month became a year.
[49:23.600 --> 49:25.940]  And here you are 25, a quarter of a century later.
[49:26.160 --> 49:26.840]  Imagine that.
[49:26.920 --> 49:27.340]  25 years later.
[49:27.460 --> 49:27.560]  Yeah.
[49:27.660 --> 49:27.940]  It's crazy.
[49:28.240 --> 49:28.240]  Wow.
[49:28.260 --> 49:29.240]  Oh, listen, thanks again.
[49:29.340 --> 49:30.700]  It's good to know people like you are out there.
[49:30.840 --> 49:31.960]  You guys have a great night.
[49:32.100 --> 49:32.340]  All right.
[49:32.440 --> 49:32.760]  Take care.
[49:33.260 --> 49:37.960]  That's just one of our listeners, uh, urging you to call 516-620-3602.
[49:38.240 --> 49:39.700]  Like him, become a BAI buddy.
[49:39.900 --> 49:41.700]  He sounded pretty happy being a BAI buddy.
[49:41.840 --> 49:46.560]  And we need a whole bunch of buddies to get through the, uh, the challenges ahead.
[49:46.960 --> 49:52.480]  But, uh, imagine, yeah, we're talking about this show beginning 25 years ago this week.
[49:53.120 --> 50:07.760]  And, uh, imagine another show that hasn't yet started that somebody is putting together someplace and they're going to come through the door here at WBAI because nobody else in this city will allow them to put on a radio show.
[50:08.260 --> 50:08.520]  Yeah.
[50:08.680 --> 50:10.100]  This is the kind of place we have here.
[50:10.180 --> 50:11.520]  We're open to different ideas.
[50:11.720 --> 50:12.620]  We're open to alternatives.
[50:13.000 --> 50:15.440]  Somebody out there has a great idea for a program.
[50:15.900 --> 50:19.620]  And in 25 years, they're going to say, wow, I did that 25 years ago.
[50:19.720 --> 50:26.040]  And the only reason I'm able to say that is because of listeners like you who called in and supported the radio station.
[50:26.180 --> 50:27.140]  You can be one of those listeners.
[50:27.380 --> 50:29.760]  516-620-3602.
[50:29.900 --> 50:37.920]  It doesn't matter if you want the historic hacker t-shirts or the, or the, uh, thumb drive collection or, or whatever it is that we want to give you as thanks.
[50:38.040 --> 50:41.840]  What matters is that you believe this radio station is worth supporting.
[50:42.000 --> 50:43.180]  We do want to thank you for $50.
[50:43.500 --> 50:52.520]  We'll give you an historic hacker t-shirt or an off the hook t-shirt, the ones that we have left, uh, or the, uh, the speaker collection from WBAI, the best of BAI thumb drive.
[50:52.660 --> 50:54.900]  You become a BAI buddy, $10 or more a month.
[50:55.100 --> 50:57.100]  Uh, you can partake in all of that.
[50:57.200 --> 50:59.120]  516-620-3602.
[50:59.240 --> 51:05.720]  But the most important reason to call in is because you believe like that last caller did in what this place stands for and in its future.
[51:05.860 --> 51:05.960]  Rob?
[51:06.140 --> 51:12.960]  And, uh, one thing we don't talk about a lot, but, uh, I think is really important is that with your donation, you also become a member of WBAI.
[51:13.100 --> 51:14.140]  You're not just a donator.
[51:14.260 --> 51:15.760]  You are not just a passive listener.
[51:15.940 --> 51:22.860]  You are someone with an active role in, and an insider's, uh, role in what the station does next and the directions we take.
[51:23.000 --> 51:34.480]  So, uh, give us a call at 516-620-3602 or go to give the numeral 2 WBAI.org and, uh, become a BAI buddy or give us a one-time donation.
[51:34.720 --> 51:40.280]  Um, but, uh, whichever way you can do help us out, help us stay on the air like we have for almost 54 years.
[51:40.480 --> 51:48.040]  And I would say that we need around four more calls to come in for us to be able to hold our heads up when we walk out of this place in just about 10 minutes.
[51:48.840 --> 51:50.580]  516-620-3602.
[51:50.600 --> 52:01.360]  So if you're on the fence about any of this, please call that number now so that we can maintain a little bit of dignity when we have to face the rest of the staff and compare how we did and all that kind of thing.
[52:01.460 --> 52:10.420]  Because yeah, it is, uh, it is important that, uh, there are off the hook listeners out there who care enough to support WBAI because that's the forum that we bring the radio program to you through.
[52:11.060 --> 52:13.040]  516-620-3602.
[52:13.180 --> 52:20.000]  We have the t-shirts, we have the thumb drives, we have just the, uh, the, the satisfaction of supporting WBAI.
[52:20.140 --> 52:25.720]  You can become a BAI buddy, pledging a certain amount each month, or you can, you can pay it all at once on your Visa or MasterCard.
[52:26.220 --> 52:27.220]  Uh, you can even send a check.
[52:27.220 --> 52:28.300]  Yes, we still take those.
[52:28.560 --> 52:31.320]  516-620-3602.
[52:31.900 --> 52:37.300]  We can't see the phone calls coming in, unfortunately, but we do see the emails when we, uh, when the pledges are complete.
[52:37.300 --> 52:48.440]  So I'm hoping that we see a bunch, uh, come in in a couple of minutes, but please call now because otherwise we won't see them before eight o'clock and, uh, and, and then, uh, we won't know for sure that we got enough calls.
[52:48.900 --> 52:50.940]  516-620-3602.
[52:51.200 --> 52:55.580]  We're going to take another, uh, listener call here and see if hopefully we have some encouragement.
[52:55.880 --> 52:56.140]  Uh, good evening.
[52:56.280 --> 52:56.740]  You're on Off the Hook.
[52:57.460 --> 52:58.300]  Hey, howdy, howdy.
[52:58.360 --> 52:58.940]  How you doing tonight?
[52:59.080 --> 52:59.560]  How you doing?
[52:59.760 --> 53:03.660]  Are you calling to support WBAI or, or to, uh, not support WBAI?
[53:03.740 --> 53:05.160]  I did make some initial donations.
[53:05.380 --> 53:09.560]  I was trying to bug my way on to greets for the show this evening if there was time before the close.
[53:10.020 --> 53:10.080]  Okay.
[53:10.600 --> 53:11.600]  Well, you're, you're on now.
[53:12.180 --> 53:12.760]  Oh, excellent.
[53:12.860 --> 53:13.200]  I'm sorry.
[53:14.020 --> 53:14.900]  I feel wheels going.
[53:15.220 --> 53:15.700]  How'd I have it?
[53:15.840 --> 53:16.280]  Are you again?
[53:17.340 --> 53:20.000]  So, so tell us, uh, tell us your feelings about...
[53:20.000 --> 53:21.480]  I've got my headphones and stopped rambling at you.
[53:21.480 --> 53:21.760]  Sorry.
[53:21.940 --> 53:22.140]  Okay.
[53:22.280 --> 53:23.280]  Tell... Yeah.
[53:23.400 --> 53:24.780]  Tell us your feelings on... Oh boy.
[53:25.160 --> 53:27.800]  Tell us your feelings on WBAI and the radio station.
[53:28.120 --> 53:37.800]  It's a fantastic station and I'm glad that it harbors such shows as yours between this show and the other variations I've heard after Hook being my favorite, of course.
[53:38.880 --> 53:39.540]  Oh, good.
[53:39.680 --> 53:39.820]  Good.
[53:40.300 --> 53:44.540]  Um, and, uh, do you encourage other people to call in and take advantage of all this?
[53:45.380 --> 53:45.780]  Absolutely.
[53:46.000 --> 53:55.200]  Anybody that finds a station and finds themselves entertained for greater than four minutes, which our shows as far as I know and longer, they shouldn't hesitate at all to be making donations.
[53:55.580 --> 53:55.980]  Yeah.
[53:56.040 --> 54:05.980]  You know, a lot of people don't have very long attention span, especially when listening to commercial radio, only a couple of minutes, but, uh, we find that people listen for much longer than that on, on WBAI and they actually listen too.
[54:06.080 --> 54:09.400]  They don't just, uh, uh, have music on in the background.
[54:09.640 --> 54:18.980]  See, you know, the thing about, uh, non-commercial shoestring radio like we do here is that, you know, that we do not have the budget to, to pay the person who's calling to say nice things about it.
[54:19.080 --> 54:21.400]  So, so this must be genuine kindness.
[54:21.780 --> 54:22.800]  Uh, thank you for the call.
[54:23.000 --> 54:23.240]  Yes.
[54:23.440 --> 54:24.240]  Well, thank you guys.
[54:24.420 --> 54:24.820]  Have a pleasure.
[54:24.820 --> 54:25.760]  All right.
[54:25.900 --> 54:26.100]  Thanks.
[54:26.380 --> 54:31.460]  And, uh, I hope there's many more people like that out there, uh, that, uh, support WBAI.
[54:31.620 --> 54:38.500]  We need those people to, uh, muster forces, come together, keep the station going because yeah, there have been problems.
[54:38.640 --> 54:41.300]  There probably will be problems in the future, but we're dealing with them.
[54:41.380 --> 54:46.360]  And I have to say, if you look at what's going on in the world today, you look at the government shutdown that's happening.
[54:46.620 --> 54:53.160]  Uh, you look at the, uh, the deficit that, uh, the U S has, uh, has managed to, uh, to, to, to create.
[54:53.780 --> 54:55.200]  How many trillions is it now?
[54:55.360 --> 54:57.880]  It's in the, in the 16 trillion.
[54:58.000 --> 54:58.300]  I don't know.
[54:58.360 --> 55:00.060]  It's a number that I can't even conceive of.
[55:00.580 --> 55:02.900]  Um, we're doing a better job here.
[55:03.040 --> 55:03.800]  We really are.
[55:03.920 --> 55:10.520]  Despite all the craziness and all the, uh, the conflict and all the struggle, we're doing a better job.
[55:10.840 --> 55:11.540]  Think about that.
[55:11.820 --> 55:13.340]  That's the standard you're holding us to.
[55:13.460 --> 55:14.640]  Well, I'm just saying that's the government.
[55:14.640 --> 55:15.700]  You don't have a choice.
[55:15.980 --> 55:16.100]  Yeah.
[55:16.100 --> 55:17.960]  You know, you, you have to support them.
[55:18.400 --> 55:20.300]  Uh, there's no way to not pay your time.
[55:20.400 --> 55:23.500]  Well, you can not pay your taxes, but then you have to, uh, deal with their wrath.
[55:23.780 --> 55:33.980]  Uh, at least we're not, uh, coming after people who don't support us because it's a choice, but we hope you support us because we want to be able to continue talking about such things, all kinds of controversial things.
[55:34.100 --> 55:38.640]  We've never been told something is too controversial for these airwaves that we can't talk about it.
[55:38.740 --> 55:46.640]  That is going to upset the sponsor, uh, or that a particular demographic is, is going to, uh, not, uh, buy the product that we're hawking.
[55:47.300 --> 55:48.580]  Doesn't work that way here.
[55:48.820 --> 55:49.640]  Doesn't work that way.
[55:49.740 --> 55:50.840]  We always are trying to improve.
[55:51.000 --> 55:57.440]  We're always trying to do better things and, uh, and, and push the envelope a little bit, but we need our only sponsors.
[55:57.820 --> 56:03.720]  And those are our listeners to come forth and, and, and pledge 516-620-3602.
[56:04.200 --> 56:05.780]  Uh, Kyle, you've got the t-shirt.
[56:06.320 --> 56:07.360]  Yes, I have it right here.
[56:07.460 --> 56:08.960]  You want to read something from it?
[56:09.180 --> 56:13.620]  Uh, any, anything maybe that I haven't read or, or one of the, uh, articles on the front?
[56:14.080 --> 56:15.780]  Uh, it's all, it's, it's historic.
[56:15.940 --> 56:16.920]  It's a $50 pledge.
[56:17.040 --> 56:19.360]  You get this, uh, this one of a kind t-shirt.
[56:19.460 --> 56:23.300]  We only have a few left, uh, 516-620-3602.
[56:23.500 --> 56:32.000]  It was made in 1997 and was, if you were at the beyond hope conference, which is the only one that didn't take place at the hotel, Pennsylvania, it was at the puck building downtown on Houston street.
[56:32.480 --> 56:34.500]  Uh, you might've gotten one of these shirts.
[56:34.620 --> 56:37.080]  You might have the odds of you still having it, though, are pretty slim.
[56:37.480 --> 56:38.840]  People don't keep t-shirts for that long.
[56:39.120 --> 56:39.780]  Well, what do you got, Kyle?
[56:40.540 --> 56:44.180]  Um, well, I'm reading past, uh, 1988, the first edition of off the hook.
[56:44.400 --> 56:45.660]  That was something that was mentioned earlier.
[56:45.880 --> 56:50.320]  I aired on WBAI and, uh, it became a regular series, uh, two years later.
[56:50.480 --> 56:50.720]  Wow.
[56:51.120 --> 56:51.300]  Yep.
[56:51.640 --> 56:52.040]  Yep.
[56:52.040 --> 56:52.340]  Yep.
[56:52.460 --> 57:01.120]  And, uh, in November, Robert Morris accidentally unleashes an inner, uh, the intern internet worm, the internet worm.
[57:01.560 --> 57:02.020]  Watch out.
[57:02.020 --> 57:03.620]  That was a, that was a doozy, that one.
[57:03.720 --> 57:04.000]  I remember.
[57:04.460 --> 57:10.200]  Um, skipping along, there's like, uh, 1989, the first issue of Hactic, a Dutch hacker magazine is published.
[57:10.480 --> 57:10.660]  Oh, yes.
[57:10.760 --> 57:11.180]  Remember that?
[57:11.420 --> 57:14.040]  The, uh, thereafter, uh, the MOD is formed.
[57:14.440 --> 57:17.240]  Kevin Mitnick is locked, uh, in solitary for months.
[57:17.640 --> 57:18.280]  What year is this?
[57:18.500 --> 57:18.920]  Uh, 89.
[57:19.140 --> 57:21.760]  And then August, uh, the Galactic Hacker Party is held in Amsterdam.
[57:22.220 --> 57:22.700]  That's right.
[57:22.780 --> 57:23.360]  August 1989.
[57:23.360 --> 57:24.140]  I was there.
[57:24.340 --> 57:24.920]  I remember that.
[57:25.000 --> 57:26.160]  That was a defining moment.
[57:26.420 --> 57:34.440]  So if you, if you want a list of, uh, defining moments in the hacker world for the first, uh, 13 years of 2600 magazine, this is the shirt for you.
[57:34.540 --> 57:35.680]  It might sound really obscure.
[57:35.840 --> 57:39.120]  It might sound kind of strange, but, uh, come on, look at who you're dealing with here.
[57:39.180 --> 57:40.320]  Of course, it's going to be those things.
[57:40.880 --> 57:42.640]  It's yours pledge of $50.
[57:43.320 --> 57:46.580]  No one else can say this because it's not available any place else.
[57:46.720 --> 57:48.300]  And it will not be available any place else.
[57:48.480 --> 57:51.300]  516-620-3602 pledge $50.
[57:51.760 --> 57:54.020]  And you can get that shirt right away.
[57:54.360 --> 57:57.500]  Uh, become a BAI buddy, $10 a month.
[57:57.760 --> 58:03.620]  And, uh, it's, it's the most painless way, the most painless way of, uh, of supporting the radio station.
[58:04.460 --> 58:05.520]  Hey, we're out of time.
[58:05.680 --> 58:10.780]  And I see we, we are getting some people, um, calling in to the, uh, pledge line.
[58:10.900 --> 58:14.940]  We're seeing some emails come in, but, uh, we hope that there's a few more because we're still a little short.
[58:15.880 --> 58:18.140]  516-620-3602.
[58:18.480 --> 58:20.400]  Become a member of WBAI.
[58:20.660 --> 58:21.720]  $10 or more a month.
[58:22.020 --> 58:23.460]  Pledge for the t-shirts, $50.
[58:24.560 --> 58:25.860]  Don't forget, Rob.
[58:26.280 --> 58:28.880]  There are 2600 meetings all over the world this Friday.
[58:29.040 --> 58:31.240]  Go to 2600.com slash meetings to find yours.
[58:31.480 --> 58:31.860]  Yes.
[58:32.000 --> 58:35.140]  And that's another bit of history that's been going on since, uh, the eighties.
[58:35.820 --> 58:39.420]  Hackers getting together on a monthly basis and trading all kinds of stories.
[58:39.540 --> 58:48.520]  Hopefully one of the stories they trade will be, wow, I got the most amazing t-shirts by listening to a radio show this week and you didn't.
[58:48.900 --> 58:54.200]  Well, maybe everybody can if they call 516-620-3602, but hurry up.
[58:54.420 --> 58:59.520]  The historic hacker t-shirt, the off the hook t-shirt and all kinds of other things.
[58:59.720 --> 59:01.280]  516-620-3602.
[59:01.420 --> 59:02.280]  That's the manual for off the hook.
[59:02.440 --> 59:03.320]  We'll see you again next week.
[59:03.420 --> 59:03.520]  Good night.
[59:41.340 --> 59:43.120]  What if they're right?
[59:43.300 --> 59:44.380]  What if I'm wrong?
[59:44.640 --> 59:45.840]  What if we're kings?
[59:46.960 --> 59:51.300]  One of these nights, play the right song, telephone rings.
[59:52.200 --> 59:56.640]  Stone in the sea, shot in the dark, split in the air.
[59:57.640 --> 01:00:01.840]  Listen to me, kindle the spark, answer my prayer.
[01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:07.160]  Is there anybody out there, one, two, three, on the satellite radio?
[01:00:07.940 --> 01:00:09.680]  Does anybody care?
[01:00:09.800 --> 01:00:12.460]  Are you listening to me on the satellite radio?
[01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:18.040]  Have the galaxies in where the stars burn wide or you're tuning in and turning on?
[01:00:18.580 --> 01:00:23.160]  Is there anybody listening to us tonight on the satellite radio?
[01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:30.000]  Listen to the radio.
[01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:40.500]  Listen to the radio.
[01:00:58.080 --> 01:00:58.680]  Ooh.
[01:00:58.680 --> 01:00:59.860]  Hey, hey, hey.
[01:01:00.860 --> 01:01:01.740]  That's great.
[01:01:02.060 --> 01:01:03.420]  I love that show.
[01:01:03.720 --> 01:01:05.740]  You ever go to 2600.com?
[01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:07.660]  I have.
[01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:08.640]  I like it.