[00:00.000 --> 00:00.860]  30 p.m.
[00:01.020 --> 00:03.300]  Refreshments will be served at the reception.
[00:03.640 --> 00:04.260]  At 8 p.m.
[00:04.380 --> 00:07.360]  sharp, the live stand-up comedy show begins.
[00:07.680 --> 00:13.840]  Comics from all corners of the earth will converge on our new headquarters for a monthly presentation of hilarity.
[00:14.000 --> 00:19.360]  This event will be located at the Commons Building, 388 Atlantic Avenue, Brooklyn, New York.
[00:19.440 --> 00:23.600]  For more information about tickets, go to wbai.org.
[00:23.600 --> 00:33.740]  That's every first Monday, beginning January 6, 2014, for the 2 Raw for Radio Comedy Experience WBAI Fundraiser.
[00:34.160 --> 00:37.040]  And you are listening to WBAI New York.
[00:37.240 --> 00:38.600]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[00:38.660 --> 00:40.860]  Time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:57.420 --> 00:58.960]  Couldn't get much worse.
[01:01.720 --> 01:04.340]  Fun dilly bump for the best, expect the worst.
[01:05.080 --> 01:06.840]  I hope that's understood.
[01:07.140 --> 01:07.760]  Fun dilly bump!
[02:20.340 --> 02:22.800]  And the very good evening show by the program is Off the Hook.
[02:22.900 --> 02:26.480]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:26.720 --> 02:27.180]  Firefly.
[02:27.380 --> 02:27.820]  Good evening.
[02:28.300 --> 02:28.940]  Bernie S.
[02:29.880 --> 02:31.420]  Happy New Year from Philadelphia.
[02:31.720 --> 02:32.660]  Happy New Year from New York.
[02:32.660 --> 02:38.800]  And that's pretty much it as far as the people who are in attendance tonight for the show on this New Year's Day.
[02:39.500 --> 02:43.220]  Not surprising, considering it's a holiday and many people are out of town.
[02:43.340 --> 02:50.040]  But we will be hearing from a bunch of our people over the course of this hour, because there are things to update folks on.
[02:50.500 --> 02:52.840]  But, Rob, we had an incredible day today.
[02:53.520 --> 02:55.420]  We went down to City Hall.
[02:55.860 --> 02:56.600]  We did, indeed.
[02:56.740 --> 03:02.080]  And rather than fight City Hall, we went into City Hall, and we both shook hands with the new mayor.
[03:02.200 --> 03:02.720]  Isn't that amazing?
[03:02.940 --> 03:04.140]  It was very neat.
[03:04.240 --> 03:04.860]  It was very neat.
[03:05.120 --> 03:06.120]  It wasn't that easy.
[03:06.220 --> 03:07.420]  You couldn't just barge in and do that.
[03:07.420 --> 03:11.120]  But you actually were clever enough to somehow get a hold of tickets to do this.
[03:11.380 --> 03:17.080]  Yes, I have my shady sources, which are the internet when the tickets were put online for free for anyone to claim.
[03:17.420 --> 03:18.580]  I didn't even know about that.
[03:18.680 --> 03:22.900]  And you just happened to mention to me a couple of days ago that, by the way, I've got an extra ticket here.
[03:23.160 --> 03:29.300]  And it was a challenge, obviously, getting up early enough to be there on time, which was, you know, it started at noon.
[03:30.780 --> 03:37.100]  But after waiting in line outside for a couple of hours, about a thousand people got to shake his hand and take a picture with him.
[03:37.200 --> 03:39.820]  So if the picture isn't too embarrassing, maybe I'll post it online.
[03:40.100 --> 03:43.440]  It's kind of embarrassing for me because I always thought, you know, okay, I'm meeting the mayor.
[03:43.600 --> 03:45.500]  I should say something nice and inspirational.
[03:45.720 --> 03:49.960]  You know, maybe something from a quote from The Wire or something like, hey, you really showed me something there today.
[03:50.080 --> 03:54.160]  No, instead, what I did was I forgot to wait for the flash.
[03:54.160 --> 03:55.120]  I shook his hand.
[03:55.220 --> 03:56.860]  I walked away before the picture was taken.
[03:57.040 --> 03:59.120]  He called me back and said, hey, don't you want a picture?
[03:59.540 --> 04:05.480]  So I guess in some small way, he will remember me as the idiot who didn't wait to take the picture.
[04:05.800 --> 04:09.820]  But it was really, it was such an inspirational inauguration.
[04:09.820 --> 04:13.640]  If anybody out there saw it, I think you would agree.
[04:13.640 --> 04:15.900]  If you haven't seen it, I'm sure it's online someplace.
[04:16.900 --> 04:24.120]  Just the happiness, the unity, the diversity in the crowd and the promise for the future.
[04:24.240 --> 04:32.140]  I know we've heard it all before in many different forums and you can't get too cynical about things not happening exactly the way you want them to happen.
[04:32.240 --> 04:33.000]  They probably won't.
[04:33.260 --> 04:35.260]  But I think today was a very good day for New York.
[04:35.260 --> 04:47.960]  I think today was a day that we look forward and look ahead to promise to more equalizing and less of a gap between rich and poor.
[04:48.160 --> 04:55.080]  He talked about this many times in his address and many of the other speakers, including Bill Clinton, made reference to it as well.
[04:55.260 --> 04:56.020]  He did indeed.
[04:56.200 --> 05:03.420]  And so did the other two individuals who were inaugurated today, the new Comptroller, Scott Stringer, and the public advocate, Letitia, is it James?
[05:03.420 --> 05:04.960]  I believe so, yes.
[05:04.960 --> 05:08.320]  And they were both really impassioned and inspirational.
[05:08.720 --> 05:09.980]  Yeah, there were other speakers as well.
[05:10.100 --> 05:18.860]  And if you can, I recommend tracking it down online and listening or watching because there were some very interesting things said by some very interesting people.
[05:19.040 --> 05:21.020]  And the crowd, it was just amazing.
[05:21.040 --> 05:21.720]  It really was.
[05:21.840 --> 05:24.480]  I mean, we were freezing our asses off out there.
[05:24.720 --> 05:32.780]  It was like Obama in 2009, the inauguration all over again in D.C., except maybe not quite as cold.
[05:32.780 --> 05:37.660]  And it's a good thing it wasn't happening tomorrow when it's going to snow or on Friday when it's going to be really frigid outside.
[05:38.300 --> 05:43.240]  But people there were really happy and looking forward to something, a change.
[05:43.340 --> 05:53.920]  The first time in 20 years that this overwhelmingly Democratic city has had a Democratic mayor, which I find to be pretty weird and strange.
[05:54.080 --> 05:54.560]  Yeah.
[05:54.640 --> 05:55.640]  A very definite change.
[05:55.640 --> 05:58.280]  Yeah, and the crowd really was interesting to look at.
[05:58.380 --> 06:04.900]  I mean, the mayor's office had opened it up to a certain amount of the public just to grab tickets online.
[06:05.040 --> 06:07.660]  And they were actually good seats.
[06:07.780 --> 06:09.920]  They didn't like scoot us off into nosebleed country or anything.
[06:10.060 --> 06:11.840]  They were decent seats from which we could see the stage.
[06:13.100 --> 06:20.620]  And afterward, you know, the whole meet and greet thing where I can't picture any of our past dozen or so mayors doing that.
[06:20.620 --> 06:21.340]  Yeah, yeah.
[06:21.580 --> 06:26.100]  Well, he actually is the 109th mayor of this city.
[06:27.340 --> 06:28.080]  Actually, wait a minute.
[06:28.160 --> 06:28.360]  Hold on.
[06:28.680 --> 06:29.080]  Okay.
[06:29.260 --> 06:30.440]  How does that work exactly?
[06:30.580 --> 06:32.900]  Because, okay, a mayor gets a four-year term, right?
[06:33.140 --> 06:33.280]  Yeah.
[06:33.940 --> 06:34.860]  I mean, what's up to in presidents?
[06:34.900 --> 06:36.260]  It's only like in the 40s, right?
[06:36.500 --> 06:37.120]  What's Obama?
[06:37.280 --> 06:38.940]  He's like 40...
[06:38.940 --> 06:42.600]  Do you know, Bernie, do you know Obama's number in the presidential ranking?
[06:43.080 --> 06:47.080]  Oh, well, there was 42 and 43, which was...
[06:47.080 --> 06:48.620]  So he would be 44.
[06:48.620 --> 06:49.800]  Okay, he's 44.
[06:49.800 --> 06:53.940]  So how is it that New York has up to 109?
[06:53.940 --> 06:59.740]  That would mean a four-year term that we've been around for 436 years?
[06:59.800 --> 07:00.380]  Is that true?
[07:00.520 --> 07:00.820]  Well, no.
[07:00.960 --> 07:02.280]  People have more than...
[07:02.280 --> 07:03.560]  Some mayors have more than one term.
[07:03.560 --> 07:04.200]  Yeah, okay.
[07:04.300 --> 07:04.640]  And that's not...
[07:04.640 --> 07:05.880]  They only count as one.
[07:06.040 --> 07:08.800]  So, for instance, Michael Bloomberg just had 12 years.
[07:08.980 --> 07:10.000]  He only counts as one.
[07:10.120 --> 07:11.800]  Giuliani before him had eight years.
[07:11.860 --> 07:12.680]  He only counts as one.
[07:12.780 --> 07:14.400]  So that's 20 years, and that's only two.
[07:14.400 --> 07:22.300]  So if you average it out now and say, okay, let's say people got re-elected, then it's 800 years.
[07:22.400 --> 07:23.280]  We haven't been around that long.
[07:23.420 --> 07:25.960]  America wasn't even founded that long ago.
[07:26.100 --> 07:29.400]  Well, one fact about New York City is it's actually a bit older than America.
[07:29.760 --> 07:33.580]  There was a New York here before I think we decided to have our own country.
[07:33.580 --> 07:36.420]  You're saying Native Americans had mayors of New York?
[07:36.420 --> 07:40.140]  I'm saying when we were still British subjects over here, we still had...
[07:40.140 --> 07:43.720]  You're just asking for phone calls later on that will go on for many, many hours.
[07:44.220 --> 07:46.560]  Bernie, do you have a theory on how this works?
[07:46.700 --> 08:07.660]  I don't have a theory on that, but I wanted to ask if you and Rob have any knowledge of Mayor de Blasio's, now Mayor de Blasio's, knowledge or statements about technology and its uses, for instance, in Philadelphia or in New York, where there's like gazillion security cameras and stop and frisk.
[08:07.800 --> 08:17.760]  And I mean, what are his views on use of technology, because that's been a hot topic recently in all the mainstream media, for or against people?
[08:17.920 --> 08:22.920]  Well, in the half second I had to say hi to him, I didn't get a chance to really glean his views on that.
[08:22.980 --> 08:28.360]  But I did hear, who was the speaker who made reference to warrantless wiretapping and how that has to be stopped?
[08:28.360 --> 08:29.840]  Was it, was that Stringer?
[08:30.600 --> 08:31.700]  I don't remember.
[08:31.820 --> 08:37.200]  There were a bunch of really good speakers and we were freezing to death, so it might be kind of hard for us to remember exactly who, but...
[08:37.200 --> 08:39.600]  I think it may have been de Blasio, it may have also been Stringer.
[08:39.920 --> 08:43.260]  But yeah, the warrantless wiretapping issue was mentioned.
[08:43.740 --> 08:54.740]  Bernie, you mentioned stop and frisk and ending stop and frisk or considerably changing stop and frisk was a major part of de Blasio's platform when he was running.
[08:55.020 --> 08:55.200]  Right.
[08:55.200 --> 09:02.940]  So, and he did go up there today and reinforce the notion that he's actually going to follow through on the promises he made while campaigning.
[09:03.200 --> 09:10.700]  But he also reached an olive branch out to the cops saying our brave policemen must be helped and respected and all that.
[09:10.840 --> 09:14.120]  You know, the things a mayor is supposed to say if he wants to stay in office, obviously.
[09:14.440 --> 09:17.720]  But I really got the sense, though, that this is different.
[09:17.880 --> 09:18.600]  This is a change.
[09:18.600 --> 09:28.020]  I mean, even going back to the Democratic mayors of the past, such as Beam and Koch, you didn't get that kind of straight shooting talk from them.
[09:28.860 --> 09:31.300]  And hopefully it's more than just talk in this case.
[09:32.000 --> 09:37.940]  Judging from the number of activists that were involved in getting this guy elected, I'm very optimistic and hopeful for the future.
[09:37.940 --> 09:40.260]  And I see New York changing in a good way.
[09:40.600 --> 09:42.140]  Yeah, I would think so, too.
[09:42.560 --> 09:43.020]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[09:43.020 --> 09:53.200]  I would like to think that de Blasio's son, who looks like he's in his late teens, like 16, 17...
[09:53.200 --> 09:53.600]  Yeah, Dante.
[09:54.260 --> 09:55.060]  Yeah, Dante.
[09:56.540 --> 10:00.200]  Black, he has a mayor, has an African-American wife.
[10:00.520 --> 10:02.640]  Oh, he's half black, half white, just like Obama.
[10:03.320 --> 10:03.720]  Yeah.
[10:04.380 --> 10:14.400]  I would think that his son probably is a frequent user of technologies that his father might not use.
[10:14.580 --> 10:30.560]  And that his son may be a sounding board for ideas or input on how people of the, whatever the post-Generation X is, is using technology and its risks and benefits and so forth.
[10:30.560 --> 10:33.840]  So I'm hoping that's one source of information that the mayor uses.
[10:34.000 --> 10:41.120]  Well, I'm sure Dante has a Twitter feed, and we should all subscribe to that and maybe send some good ideas.
[10:41.340 --> 10:51.980]  The mayor actually has two teenage kids, and I believe the taxonomical designation is millennials for this generation who were born on or about the millennium change.
[10:52.320 --> 10:56.380]  So what are they going to call people who are born in the next couple of years?
[10:56.800 --> 10:57.420]  Freaking young.
[10:57.680 --> 10:57.980]  Yeah.
[10:59.580 --> 11:01.180]  Somebody comes up with these things.
[11:01.340 --> 11:03.360]  Somebody comes up with these designations.
[11:04.080 --> 11:05.100]  They should have started with X.
[11:05.300 --> 11:07.560]  They made a mistake of starting with Generation X.
[11:07.640 --> 11:08.580]  They should have started with A.
[11:08.660 --> 11:09.580]  Well, they could go back.
[11:09.900 --> 11:11.160]  It can be cyclical.
[11:11.240 --> 11:11.760]  They can go back.
[11:11.900 --> 11:12.700]  They can generate...
[11:12.700 --> 11:13.120]  Why not?
[11:13.680 --> 11:14.200]  You know?
[11:15.060 --> 11:17.020]  Anyway, Bernie, any changes in Philadelphia?
[11:18.960 --> 11:20.480]  Any changes for the new year?
[11:20.620 --> 11:20.760]  Yeah.
[11:20.760 --> 11:23.660]  Any new mayors or policies?
[11:23.660 --> 11:24.040]  No, no.
[11:24.220 --> 11:26.040]  We've got the same mayor here for...
[11:26.040 --> 11:28.320]  He was elected, I guess, a year or two ago.
[11:28.480 --> 11:29.240]  Re-elected, actually.
[11:29.440 --> 11:30.740]  So Mayor Nutter.
[11:32.480 --> 11:33.580]  N-U-T-T-E-R.
[11:33.660 --> 11:34.480]  Yes, that's his real name.
[11:34.620 --> 11:36.520]  You always have funny names for your mayors.
[11:36.860 --> 11:37.320]  I know.
[11:37.460 --> 11:37.740]  I know.
[11:37.740 --> 11:38.540]  I don't know what it is.
[11:39.040 --> 11:41.820]  But he is a Democratic mayor in a Democratic city.
[11:42.380 --> 11:45.480]  We haven't had a Republican mayor for many years here.
[11:45.540 --> 11:51.340]  Although there's some in the running coming up for the next election, which I think is a year or two from now.
[11:51.520 --> 11:52.220]  So we'll see.
[11:53.140 --> 12:00.880]  This mayor did not seem to be particularly aware of technology and technology-savvy sort of stuff.
[12:01.880 --> 12:04.600]  But, you know, there's always time for people to learn.
[12:05.680 --> 12:06.380]  Very true.
[12:06.520 --> 12:06.900]  Very true.
[12:06.900 --> 12:17.040]  Hey, this was also, the last few days anyway, was the week that the Chaos Communication Congress took place in Hamburg.
[12:17.500 --> 12:20.120]  And it was really interesting.
[12:20.880 --> 12:25.080]  We're actually going to be connecting to Mike over in Berlin now.
[12:25.200 --> 12:25.540]  He's over in...
[12:25.540 --> 12:26.520]  I believe he's in Berlin now.
[12:27.600 --> 12:31.780]  And getting his views on what happened over there.
[12:31.940 --> 12:35.060]  I think there were something like 9,000 people who showed up to this thing.
[12:35.160 --> 12:36.240]  It was unreal.
[12:36.240 --> 12:37.420]  It really was incredible.
[12:37.720 --> 12:41.640]  And it was fed to the entire world.
[12:41.680 --> 12:43.140]  Not only just fed.
[12:43.260 --> 12:44.740]  Fed in HD video.
[12:45.360 --> 12:46.320]  Multiple streams.
[12:46.920 --> 12:49.080]  Translated to English if it was in German.
[12:49.400 --> 12:52.380]  It was simply technologically unbelievable.
[12:52.800 --> 12:57.720]  And, you know, it makes you feel very small when you're in a different part of the world.
[12:57.720 --> 13:02.300]  And you see these amazing feats being accomplished so easily, so skillfully.
[13:02.300 --> 13:18.320]  And you realize that we have so much work ahead of us, not only speaking personally, organizing our own conferences, but just as a nation, technologically, fixing our infrastructure, developing these skills, making things easy.
[13:18.940 --> 13:24.700]  I mean, I know Germany is a much wealthier country than the United States for these kinds of things, certainly.
[13:25.740 --> 13:27.660]  It's easier when you have the resources.
[13:27.800 --> 13:34.500]  But, wow, what you can do with those resources when you have the right people doing it, you know?
[13:34.500 --> 13:34.560]  Wow.
[13:34.800 --> 13:37.140]  And the talks were simply incredible.
[13:37.760 --> 13:39.520]  Glenn Greenwald gave the keynote.
[13:40.260 --> 13:43.000]  Jacob Applebaum was on stage a few times.
[13:43.460 --> 13:48.220]  Many, many talks that are already posted online that you can see.
[13:48.260 --> 13:55.000]  Even if you miss the conference, being away from the conference, you can still see it and participate in that way.
[13:55.120 --> 13:56.860]  But, wow, it really was inspiring.
[13:56.860 --> 14:01.840]  And I'm kind of incredulous because usually I get that feeling when I go there.
[14:02.080 --> 14:06.160]  This time I got that feeling without going there, just by participating in a different way.
[14:06.200 --> 14:12.820]  And I think that's something that we're learning slowly, that you don't have to actually be physically present to participate.
[14:13.580 --> 14:16.240]  Yeah, that was always part of the dream of the Internet, wasn't it?
[14:16.280 --> 14:23.360]  That it would bring people together regardless of distance, regardless of physical barriers, and bring them together to work on things like this.
[14:23.360 --> 14:26.580]  And the results looked stunning to me.
[14:26.720 --> 14:30.720]  I didn't go to the Congress, and I didn't even get to watch much of it.
[14:30.800 --> 14:38.660]  But the other day I was in San Francisco and I visited Noisebridge, the well-known hackerspace out there, and they had the streams going just on various screens and laptops.
[14:39.060 --> 14:41.080]  And the quality was impeccable.
[14:41.180 --> 14:46.340]  You wouldn't have ever thought that this was happening an ocean away.
[14:47.720 --> 14:51.420]  And, yeah, I hear nothing but good things every year coming back from there.
[14:53.360 --> 14:58.480]  And we have Mike joining us now from... Mike, are you in Berlin?
[14:59.420 --> 15:00.420]  I am, yes.
[15:00.700 --> 15:00.980]  Okay.
[15:01.180 --> 15:04.600]  Well, I imagine the train ride from Hamburg to Berlin was smooth.
[15:06.040 --> 15:07.220]  However, did you guess?
[15:07.960 --> 15:23.380]  Well, the way I figure it, technologically, as far as pulling things off as flawlessly as the Chaos Communication Congress, known as 30C3, for us to do that, it's about equivalent to a job as the U.S.
[15:23.420 --> 15:26.000]  rail system becoming equivalent to the German rail system.
[15:26.120 --> 15:27.980]  That's how far behind we are.
[15:28.720 --> 15:29.980]  A lot of work ahead of us.
[15:30.600 --> 15:31.520]  That's just cruel.
[15:31.520 --> 15:33.660]  It is, but, you know, you've got to face reality.
[15:33.920 --> 15:41.580]  There's just so much, so much that I wish we were able to do, that they take for granted over there.
[15:42.260 --> 15:44.020]  But, you know, there's other things.
[15:44.100 --> 15:47.180]  There's other things that we've got a more gritty feel to our things.
[15:48.580 --> 15:48.940]  Yes.
[15:49.960 --> 15:51.220]  I'd love to tell you all about it.
[15:51.260 --> 15:55.180]  If you'll hold a second, I'll have Pat Mitchin, who would love to tell you about it as well.
[15:55.400 --> 15:56.000]  Okay, yeah.
[15:56.140 --> 15:58.340]  Well, we're going to actually have some high technology here, then.
[15:58.340 --> 16:05.060]  We're going to three-way a phone call in Germany, while Mike is going to three-way on his German phone that we're connecting to.
[16:06.000 --> 16:09.080]  And, hopefully, soon you'll hear the sound of Mitch Altman.
[16:09.920 --> 16:13.460]  I think the technical term for doing it on a German phone is drive-ay, maybe.
[16:13.660 --> 16:14.860]  Oh, listen, we can hear the ring.
[16:15.100 --> 16:15.260]  Ooh.
[16:18.400 --> 16:19.600]  Well, I heard it for a second.
[16:22.080 --> 16:23.020]  I heard two beeps.
[16:23.140 --> 16:23.760]  Now, that's not right.
[16:26.260 --> 16:26.640]  Okay.
[16:26.760 --> 16:27.480]  Oh, you know what that is?
[16:27.520 --> 16:28.340]  That means we're on hold.
[16:28.820 --> 16:29.200]  Ah.
[16:29.200 --> 16:29.640]  Ah, yeah.
[16:30.220 --> 16:31.120]  Okay, that's what that is.
[16:31.120 --> 16:31.800]  It's a hold beep.
[16:32.760 --> 16:33.400]  Okay, fine.
[16:33.420 --> 16:35.340]  So, we're on hold while they're connecting each other.
[16:36.660 --> 16:37.060]  Yep.
[16:37.400 --> 16:37.840]  Oh, okay.
[16:38.040 --> 16:38.440]  Hello.
[16:39.700 --> 16:40.100]  Hello.
[16:40.580 --> 16:41.640]  That does sound like Mitch.
[16:41.740 --> 16:44.100]  Mitch, you're on the radio, along with Mike here.
[16:44.460 --> 16:47.240]  And the two of you both were at 30C3, correct?
[16:48.400 --> 16:51.760]  Yeah, and we're both still in Berlin and different parts of town.
[16:51.760 --> 16:52.860]  Well, great.
[16:53.140 --> 17:03.240]  Now, you know, for a while, for at least two days, 30C3, the name of the conference, because it's the 30th CCC, C3, it was a trending topic on Twitter.
[17:03.460 --> 17:04.100]  Did you know that?
[17:05.200 --> 17:06.800]  Yeah, people were talking about that.
[17:06.880 --> 17:07.720]  That's kind of amazing.
[17:07.920 --> 17:15.660]  Well, there were some pretty spectacular revelations at the end of C3 that probably spurred a lot of that.
[17:15.660 --> 17:18.060]  Well, that started from the beginning.
[17:18.460 --> 17:20.140]  It was the very first day, it was a trending topic.
[17:20.300 --> 17:27.640]  I think when 9,000 people show up, and they're all talking about it, and they're organized, this is what happens.
[17:27.940 --> 17:32.320]  Even Occupy Wall Street couldn't get onto a trending topic.
[17:32.500 --> 17:33.340]  You know, that was a big controversy.
[17:33.520 --> 17:37.040]  I believe, Emmanuel, the official attendance figure is over 9,000.
[17:37.160 --> 17:37.940]  Yeah, over 9,000.
[17:38.040 --> 17:39.460]  Well, that could be 20,000 for all I know.
[17:40.160 --> 17:42.700]  But, okay, so Mike, this was your first time going over there.
[17:42.780 --> 17:45.440]  What can you describe the venue to us?
[17:46.520 --> 17:49.420]  Well, it was my first time going to this venue in Hamburg.
[17:49.420 --> 17:52.140]  I'd been a few years ago when it was still in Berlin.
[17:52.400 --> 17:55.040]  But it's a huge space.
[17:58.120 --> 18:04.280]  The Congress Centrum Hamburg, I guess they only use venues that already have at least two Cs in the name.
[18:06.300 --> 18:12.980]  It's this giant building right next to, I guess, a sort of secondary transition in Hamburg.
[18:15.140 --> 18:17.240]  It's a very confusing layout.
[18:17.620 --> 18:22.880]  There were talks in, of course, rooms 1 and 2, but also 6 and G.
[18:23.340 --> 18:24.480]  I don't really know.
[18:24.760 --> 18:25.660]  Yeah, I noticed that too.
[18:25.800 --> 18:28.660]  1, 2, G, and 6 was the order of the feeds.
[18:28.900 --> 18:33.080]  Are there rooms 3, 4, 5, and A, B, C, D, E, and F?
[18:33.880 --> 18:38.780]  You know, there were, I think, 4 and 5 were used for workshops.
[18:39.320 --> 18:41.600]  I didn't actually go in them.
[18:42.000 --> 18:45.400]  And some of the other letters were used for other things.
[18:46.260 --> 18:53.980]  I think, for instance, the room that was used as what's called the Hack Center, where all kinds of groups had tables.
[18:54.380 --> 18:57.100]  And Mitch can tell you all the stuff he was doing there.
[18:57.140 --> 18:58.860]  I think that was technically room 3.
[18:59.300 --> 19:01.180]  I don't really understand.
[19:01.180 --> 19:07.300]  But it was this huge, really super confusing space, but just unbelievable scale.
[19:07.980 --> 19:14.180]  Yeah, you know, that's another thing, just having those resources at your disposal, being able to use a space like that.
[19:14.600 --> 19:22.000]  There's no such space like that in New York that I can find, or pretty much most cities in this country.
[19:22.140 --> 19:34.640]  And as you mentioned, not only can they get venues that have two Cs in them, but they get really nice venues in the heart of cities that are easy to get to and very flexible and big and confusing, too.
[19:34.800 --> 19:37.200]  But that's kind of what you need at a hacker convention.
[19:38.400 --> 19:40.640]  Yeah, it's kind of fun that it was confusing.
[19:41.480 --> 19:47.280]  It made it really maze-like, and you find all these nooks and crannies, and you find all sorts of surprises in each one.
[19:47.780 --> 19:53.080]  Sounds like Hotel Pennsylvania, actually, but it's a smaller venue as far as that goes.
[19:53.520 --> 19:55.540]  Mitch, tell us something about the things you were doing over there.
[19:56.780 --> 20:07.740]  Yeah, the main thing I was doing was organizing a 2,000 square meter, that's about 20,000 square feet room, which, as Mike said, was room 3, sal 3.
[20:10.220 --> 20:13.480]  And so there was... it was full.
[20:13.640 --> 20:23.620]  It was totally full of lots of blinking lights and lasers and a dome and some ball pits full of balls that you can rest in and play around with.
[20:23.620 --> 20:30.400]  There were people making their own sweatshirts and knitting things.
[20:30.400 --> 20:32.260]  There were workshops on these things.
[20:32.260 --> 20:34.900]  There was workshops on making your own gold rings.
[20:35.140 --> 20:43.200]  There were workshops on soldering, of course, that I ran, and workshops on soldering from lots of other people as well.
[20:43.800 --> 20:46.660]  There was workshops on wearable fabrics.
[20:47.960 --> 20:57.740]  And there were some people that I invited over from China who have Open Source Project, which is a visually oriented programming language for Arduino.
[20:58.940 --> 21:06.600]  And on and on and on, I did a couple of Arduino workshops myself, and they were always really popular.
[21:08.320 --> 21:10.960]  And, wow, it was just totally amazing.
[21:11.140 --> 21:20.880]  And I managed to escape to wander around and go to a tea area put up by the people who defeated ACTA, Le Quadrature du Net.
[21:21.200 --> 21:26.920]  And they had an area called Le Quadrature du T, squaring the tea.
[21:26.920 --> 21:31.660]  And there was a tea tent where you could get a massage and take care of yourself.
[21:31.860 --> 21:38.380]  And a bunch of discussion on mental health for geeks, which was really nice for a lot of people.
[21:39.100 --> 21:47.860]  There was even a place in a corner where you could get on a bicycle and do human-powered grinding of your own coffee beans that would then get turned into espresso.
[21:49.400 --> 21:52.580]  A lot of good food at the food hacking base also.
[21:52.580 --> 21:57.020]  And these people who make their own open-source cookers around the corner.
[21:57.920 --> 22:00.760]  It was just... I could go on and on and on.
[22:00.900 --> 22:07.900]  And then I didn't even get to any of the talks, although there's certainly a lot of talk about the talks, because there are some really amazing ones.
[22:08.260 --> 22:15.840]  I actually saw more talks not going than if I had gone to the thing, because I was just able to watch the feeds.
[22:18.180 --> 22:28.280]  Yeah, and you're not so much distracted by all of the amazingly cool people that you could have great conversations with, which is one of the main things I love about going to these events.
[22:28.540 --> 22:31.040]  You know, not only CCC, but of course going to Hope.
[22:32.880 --> 22:42.860]  And so just meeting all these amazing people and sharing what I know with people who want to learn and learning from other people that I find fascinating, it's just great.
[22:43.100 --> 22:48.220]  And I wish I had time also to go to any of the talks, some of which sounded just amazing.
[22:48.960 --> 22:57.220]  Now, Mike, I know you went to a few talks, some of them in Room 2, I think, was translating Room 1 when Room 1 was in German.
[22:57.260 --> 22:57.720]  Was that correct?
[22:59.260 --> 23:18.020]  That only happened at the very end, at the closing ceremonies and the year in review, as far as I can tell, all of the German language talks, of which there were about 40, were actually live translated into English, but I never figured out exactly how to listen in to the translation.
[23:18.220 --> 23:25.240]  So I wasn't able to take advantage of that until, as I said, the very end when they just broadcast it into a room that I could walk into.
[23:25.500 --> 23:26.540]  Yeah, I was able to do that.
[23:26.580 --> 23:37.600]  I was able to actually take advantage of that simply by clicking a little button on the feed and all of a sudden German turned to English and there were two people doing a really, really good job translating live what was going on.
[23:37.720 --> 23:38.780]  You couldn't hear the crowd.
[23:38.900 --> 23:41.660]  That was a disadvantage, but you could hear everything that was being said.
[23:42.920 --> 23:43.600]  Yeah, Manuel.
[23:43.860 --> 23:47.360]  The one that I did hear, I was really quite impressed.
[23:47.600 --> 23:59.280]  I remember a few years ago they were starting the translation project and I dialed into it once and it was sort of difficult to listen to, but they've really up to their game in that as in so many other areas.
[23:59.280 --> 24:06.860]  So the way it worked over there, people had, I believe, decked phones or GSM phones and they were able to dial a number and then simply listen in live?
[24:08.820 --> 24:12.940]  That is my understanding, although I didn't see anyone actually do it.
[24:13.060 --> 24:13.280]  Okay.
[24:13.380 --> 24:15.880]  And there were also subtitles somewhere.
[24:15.880 --> 24:16.840]  I didn't see those.
[24:18.400 --> 24:21.380]  Yeah, I think those are going to get onto the video somehow.
[24:21.740 --> 24:22.060]  Okay.
[24:22.240 --> 24:22.700]  I'm sorry, Mitch.
[24:22.760 --> 24:22.960]  Go ahead.
[24:24.180 --> 24:38.340]  Yeah, there's volunteers doing some pretty spectacular things that, you know, doing stuff that would be very, very highly paid if they were doing it professionally, but they're just doing it for free because they really love it.
[24:38.520 --> 24:46.220]  And this year they had, there were about 10,000 people who showed up for the Congress and there were 1,000 volunteers.
[24:46.760 --> 25:02.200]  So the 10% of the people who showed up were involved volunteering from anything from setting up tables to doing closed caption and translating or running the info desk to help people get wherever they need to go, setting up the internet, which, Backbone,
[25:02.340 --> 25:04.620]  which was 700 gig of bandwidth.
[25:04.840 --> 25:05.720]  You see, that's what I mean.
[25:05.720 --> 25:06.660]  That's what I mean.
[25:07.000 --> 25:09.780]  Those kind of numbers, they just make me want to tear my hair out.
[25:09.880 --> 25:21.100]  But what you say about volunteers, that rings very true in so many hacker conferences, including our own, uh, about one in 10 people seem to be full-fledged volunteers helping out.
[25:21.260 --> 25:23.180]  And, um, and that's what makes it so great.
[25:23.280 --> 25:28.260]  That's what makes the impossible happen in the first place, uh, regardless of the venue, the city, the country.
[25:29.460 --> 25:32.080]  Yeah, just people doing stuff because they love it.
[25:32.220 --> 25:33.880]  And that's what makes it so high.
[25:34.380 --> 25:41.340]  It would be great if all of society were full of so many people doing stuff because they love it and then all of society would be high.
[25:41.460 --> 25:44.320]  But since we don't have that, we do have hacker spaces and hacker conferences.
[25:44.320 --> 25:45.000]  Yeah, but you know what?
[25:45.120 --> 25:47.380]  It's getting closer to all of society.
[25:47.380 --> 26:04.500]  When you have 9,000 people showing up in Hamburg and when you have people representing political parties showing up there, when you have the headlines of the entire year being featured there, you had Julian Assange and Glenn Greenwald speaking to these people live.
[26:05.340 --> 26:06.640]  It's very relevant.
[26:06.640 --> 26:08.940]  It's very interesting to the populace as well.
[26:08.940 --> 26:15.360]  The thing that bugged me, though, the one thing that really did bother me was the lack of media coverage that I could find.
[26:15.540 --> 26:17.040]  I know there was German media coverage.
[26:17.240 --> 26:19.520]  I saw precious little outside of that.
[26:19.520 --> 26:20.880]  I saw very little in England.
[26:20.880 --> 26:22.540]  I saw very little in the United States.
[26:23.040 --> 26:25.660]  And that's disturbing with something of that magnitude.
[26:25.820 --> 26:29.200]  I get frustrated when we don't get press coverage here in New York.
[26:29.500 --> 26:32.260]  But this is something that is so much bigger.
[26:32.480 --> 26:36.140]  And I don't see why that wasn't on the front page of newspapers everywhere.
[26:37.060 --> 26:39.020]  Well, you can kind of guess, can't you?
[26:39.560 --> 26:51.140]  Much of what was making it in the mainstream media here, and there was a lot of mainstream media at the Congress, was because of all of the revelations that were being discussed.
[26:51.380 --> 26:55.840]  I mean, Glenn Greenwald, is that going to be talked about in great detail in the U.S.
[26:55.860 --> 26:56.760]  or the U.K.?
[26:56.760 --> 27:06.380]  The last talk where Jake Applebaum was talking about all the backdoors and hardware in the NSA from classified documents being released.
[27:06.620 --> 27:10.140]  This isn't something that's going to be in the mainstream of the United States.
[27:10.560 --> 27:10.960]  Yeah.
[27:11.160 --> 27:14.420]  And by the way, Jake Applebaum's talk is on YouTube.
[27:14.600 --> 27:15.180]  Now, this is the thing.
[27:15.320 --> 27:16.480]  This is what really gets me.
[27:16.660 --> 27:18.440]  The Germans have it put up in a day.
[27:18.440 --> 27:21.740]  We just today managed to put up the Next Hope videos.
[27:23.080 --> 27:25.040]  What, three and a half years after we had it?
[27:25.100 --> 27:25.600]  Okay, fine.
[27:25.680 --> 27:40.040]  You know, it wasn't exactly a priority for us to get those up immediately, but it's kind of an interesting comparison because Jake Applebaum gave the keynote at that particular event because Julian Assange was pretty much prevented from entering this country.
[27:40.040 --> 27:41.640]  So it's an interesting contrast.
[27:42.180 --> 27:46.560]  And we just put those up today on our channel 2600 on YouTube.
[27:46.900 --> 27:52.500]  But the Jacob Applebaum talk, I think it's up to 150,000 views in just a couple of days.
[27:52.520 --> 27:54.640]  So this thing is getting traction.
[27:54.640 --> 27:57.980]  This is becoming extremely relevant to a whole lot of people.
[27:58.320 --> 28:00.800]  And I don't think it's going to be getting any smaller.
[28:00.820 --> 28:02.500]  I think it's only going to be growing from here.
[28:02.500 --> 28:13.240]  And I think those numbers, you know, the attendance level over 9,000 and 150,000 views on YouTube, these are, I think these are, I think it's safe to say these are coming from all over the world.
[28:13.420 --> 28:18.180]  Like this is world news, whether or not the mainstream media here is designating it as such.
[28:18.380 --> 28:21.100]  And it's just going to keep getting bigger.
[28:22.400 --> 28:22.800]  Absolutely.
[28:23.000 --> 28:28.560]  Manuel, I do want to tell you two things that were real highlights for me that I think have gotten a little less attention.
[28:28.560 --> 28:43.380]  The first was an amazing talk I saw by this guy, Trevor Paglin, and I hope it will be online soon, I think it isn't yet, who is an artist in the United States who studies what he calls the secret state through a variety of means.
[28:43.540 --> 28:54.540]  So he's got photographs of secret military bases, and he's got records from secret CIA charter plane companies.
[28:55.100 --> 29:03.780]  He finds them suing each other, so there's information in the public record about them for billing disputes, about transporting people to Guantanamo.
[29:03.780 --> 29:08.060]  It's all insane, and he gave a very well-put-together talk about his work.
[29:08.240 --> 29:10.480]  So I hope people will watch that when it's online.
[29:10.760 --> 29:12.240]  I hope that he comes to hope.
[29:12.300 --> 29:13.360]  You say he's from the United States.
[29:14.200 --> 29:16.620]  Yeah, I will talk about that.
[29:16.620 --> 29:22.240]  But on a much less serious note, there was this amazing system called the Zeidenstrasse, which means Silk Road.
[29:22.440 --> 29:32.820]  And what it is is a bunch of yellow, like, vacuum tubes that were strung all around the CCH.
[29:33.220 --> 29:38.120]  And people could use it to pneumatically send capsules from one place to another.
[29:38.640 --> 29:45.180]  Every capsule that was required had to have an LED, so you could see these capsules zooming about this place.
[29:45.180 --> 29:55.120]  You had to get a C5 in order to participate, which, of course, stands for Chaos Communications Congress Certified Capsule.
[29:55.280 --> 29:55.700]  Oh, boy.
[29:57.780 --> 29:59.800]  And I tried to watch the talk about that.
[29:59.800 --> 30:03.020]  It was mostly in German, slightly in English, so I didn't quite get it.
[30:03.080 --> 30:09.600]  But there were just these things whizzing around, all home-built, and it worked.
[30:10.120 --> 30:14.240]  The pneumatic tube system, was that there before, or did they build that?
[30:15.240 --> 30:16.520]  No, no, it was totally built.
[30:17.600 --> 30:24.980]  There were these people who spent months putting this system together, and it was just like, you'd go to a drive-in bank back in the day.
[30:25.100 --> 30:25.800]  Did they still have those?
[30:25.860 --> 30:26.320]  I don't even know.
[30:26.500 --> 30:30.900]  And they'd put your money in this capsule and pneumatically appear right at your car door.
[30:31.140 --> 30:36.520]  Well, there was originally supposed to be a plan in New York, I think, to deliver mail that way, building to building, through pneumatic tubes.
[30:36.900 --> 30:37.540]  They did it.
[30:37.540 --> 30:46.900]  Yeah, they used to have that in the former GDR, and there were some hackerspaces that actually had the control center for that for a little while.
[30:47.220 --> 30:49.840]  It never did anything with it, but it's just so cool.
[30:50.000 --> 30:59.020]  But this one, it looked so much like the designer duct work from the movie Brazil, which had a sort of ominous overtone for this playful setup.
[30:59.020 --> 31:05.920]  And when the capsules went by, they made this noise, and some of them had noisemakers, and they went all over the place.
[31:06.040 --> 31:07.860]  They weren't sufficiently rooted.
[31:08.340 --> 31:09.600]  This is too much.
[31:09.720 --> 31:10.260]  This is too much.
[31:10.840 --> 31:14.080]  Okay, the bandwidth is one thing, all right?
[31:14.160 --> 31:15.800]  The venues, that's another thing.
[31:15.960 --> 31:17.440]  They're hard to attain.
[31:17.660 --> 31:26.340]  But I think we've got the skill in this country for hackers to get together and build a pneumatic tube system that we can install at Hope this July.
[31:26.340 --> 31:31.740]  And I think that would be really cool, to have pneumatic tubes spinning all over the pavilion downstairs.
[31:31.760 --> 31:32.780]  What do you guys think?
[31:34.820 --> 31:36.660]  Hang on, one at a time.
[31:36.940 --> 31:37.840]  Mike first.
[31:38.060 --> 31:38.540]  Mike...
[31:38.540 --> 31:39.320]  Well, Bernie's talking.
[31:39.440 --> 31:40.160]  All right, Bernie first.
[31:40.900 --> 31:43.320]  Look, I can't hear the other caller, so I apologize.
[31:45.600 --> 31:52.000]  The pneumatic tube system was for sending mail, like intercity mail, used in New York decades ago.
[31:52.240 --> 31:56.020]  Some of the users got in trouble for sending sandwiches through it.
[31:57.060 --> 32:00.240]  And, you know, we might have to have a policy to address that sort of thing.
[32:00.620 --> 32:04.060]  Well, okay, right away, you give people ideas on how to misuse a system.
[32:04.240 --> 32:05.880]  That's the American approach, isn't it?
[32:06.120 --> 32:07.100]  Okay, Mike, go ahead.
[32:08.300 --> 32:12.540]  So I don't think that would be against the rules at the CCCC.
[32:12.760 --> 32:14.980]  What if you wanted to send a sandwich to somebody, you know?
[32:15.440 --> 32:16.400]  I think it's okay.
[32:16.400 --> 32:20.200]  But I should point out, you mentioned the incredible bandwidth that they had at the conference.
[32:20.460 --> 32:24.020]  But the bandwidth of the Zeidenstrasse system was actually greater.
[32:24.020 --> 32:31.060]  If you were to send a terabyte drive or something from one end of the conference to another, it would take, you know, just a couple minutes.
[32:31.060 --> 32:34.820]  And that is much greater than the bandwidth of even their amazing network.
[32:34.900 --> 32:38.260]  Okay, but when that terabyte drive arrived, would it be in any condition to be used?
[32:38.260 --> 32:40.500]  I mean, how lightly does it land?
[32:42.160 --> 32:45.060]  If it's a USB, you know, flash drive, I'm sure it'd be fine.
[32:45.080 --> 32:46.820]  Oh, okay, yeah, I guess that's not a problem.
[32:46.880 --> 32:49.780]  But seriously, this is something that I think would be a lot of fun.
[32:50.200 --> 32:55.660]  That and building huge Lego things, there's nothing that we can't do if we put our minds to it.
[32:55.720 --> 32:57.940]  And we have an email address, projects at hope.net.
[32:58.140 --> 33:08.320]  If people are interested in getting involved in different projects, pretty much you have the run of the place, you have our support, and your imagination really is the only limit.
[33:08.980 --> 33:21.820]  And just so people who couldn't make it to Germany don't feel too frustrated, especially those of you in New York, those of you in the States, a lot of people in Canada, we are opening pre-registration this coming Monday for Hope, which is taking place in July,
[33:21.940 --> 33:26.540]  July 18, 19, and 20, here at the Hotel Pennsylvania in New York City.
[33:26.600 --> 33:30.520]  Actually, not here, but at the Hotel Pennsylvania downtown in New York City.
[33:30.520 --> 33:36.420]  So that's the closest you're going to get to something on the order of CCC, I think.
[33:37.720 --> 33:45.840]  And I really... I wish I was there, but in a way, I'm sort of glad I wasn't because I was able to experience it in a different way, and it was just as cool.
[33:46.600 --> 33:51.960]  Guys, I'm going to give you an opportunity to close off with any other thoughts you might have about what you experienced.
[33:54.240 --> 33:56.320]  I'm not sure what more to say.
[33:56.600 --> 34:00.660]  I'm just still kind of buzzing from the whole experience.
[34:00.960 --> 34:03.200]  I believe you said you could talk for hours about this.
[34:04.400 --> 34:06.940]  So just pick something at random.
[34:07.800 --> 34:09.720]  Oh, it's just fantastic.
[34:10.180 --> 34:13.780]  I really am still buzzing from the whole experience.
[34:14.480 --> 34:18.860]  I taught several hundred people how to solder, and...
[34:18.860 --> 34:20.620]  Didn't you teach, Mike, the last day...
[34:20.620 --> 34:22.440]  You taught three-year-olds or five-year-olds how to solder?
[34:23.360 --> 34:23.980]  Yeah, yeah.
[34:24.080 --> 34:28.720]  So the last day, I taught 15 people or so who were four years old how to solder.
[34:30.160 --> 34:32.120]  And it's just... it's always adorable.
[34:32.540 --> 34:43.260]  And there... many of them were just totally getting it, and who knows what they're going to be doing with that skill, plus whatever else they learn in the years to come.
[34:43.780 --> 34:44.980]  And there were so many people.
[34:45.080 --> 34:46.520]  This is 30C3.
[34:46.880 --> 34:53.720]  You know, this group of people are responsible of so much of what we're seeing positive in the world now.
[34:53.840 --> 34:58.180]  And 30 years of this stuff, 30 years, they've been at this.
[34:58.340 --> 35:04.380]  And there are so many people who are part of CCC now who weren't even born when that was happening.
[35:04.460 --> 35:07.600]  And I think this is just a good sign.
[35:07.600 --> 35:12.180]  If there's anything positive for what's to come in the future now, here we are in 2014.
[35:12.180 --> 35:14.240]  2014, it's because of people like this.
[35:14.560 --> 35:14.880]  Absolutely.
[35:14.880 --> 35:23.880]  If you look at the people that are a part of your organization, and if you see a lot of young people, then you're doing something right because you're maintaining that interest.
[35:24.300 --> 35:29.960]  And there are people who are half the age of CCC that are attending the Congresses.
[35:30.600 --> 35:33.160]  And, yeah, 1984, that's the year 2600 started.
[35:33.260 --> 35:34.780]  That's the year the Cult of the Dead Cows started.
[35:34.860 --> 35:36.500]  That's the year, I think, Frack Magazine started.
[35:36.500 --> 35:38.240]  A lot of things happened in 1984.
[35:38.260 --> 35:40.760]  It was a real inspirational year.
[35:40.940 --> 35:46.400]  But it's continuing to this day and threatens to continue for much, much longer.
[35:46.580 --> 35:48.040]  So that's really kind of cool.
[35:48.320 --> 35:50.100]  Mike, I saw you, actually.
[35:50.240 --> 35:55.700]  I was watching you and Aesthetics on one of the lightning talks that were taking place.
[35:55.700 --> 35:58.540]  I had to stay up until 6.45 in the morning to see you.
[35:58.540 --> 36:07.940]  But you were talking to people out there about the HOPE Conference and trying to convince Germans and other people in Europe to travel to the United States.
[36:08.300 --> 36:10.080]  Did you get any kind of feedback on that?
[36:11.160 --> 36:15.300]  I mean, there's definitely some people who will not travel to the United States.
[36:15.500 --> 36:17.380]  And, you know, people have told me this before.
[36:17.400 --> 36:26.600]  I tried once writing a letter to my congressperson saying, because this is what I hear is the thing that they'll listen to if you write it.
[36:26.600 --> 36:31.400]  You know, like, because of your stupid restrictions on losing money, people will not come to HOPE.
[36:32.160 --> 36:33.280]  But that didn't work either.
[36:33.280 --> 36:39.020]  I don't think they care what, you know, about such small amounts of money as we charge for the HOPE Conference.
[36:40.300 --> 36:43.160]  But, you know, and of course, I should just clarify the HOPE Conference.
[36:43.420 --> 36:47.240]  We do not run at a profit, but they don't have to know that in the Congress.
[36:49.420 --> 36:57.360]  But, you know, so many people would like to come, you know, even without dealing with that.
[36:57.760 --> 36:59.860]  And so many people are willing to do that.
[37:00.000 --> 37:02.820]  So I think there's HOPE for HOPE.
[37:03.680 --> 37:04.280]  Hope for HOPE.
[37:04.280 --> 37:10.660]  Mitch and I and some other people were at a New Year's party the other night, last night, I guess.
[37:10.660 --> 37:17.280]  And we decided that 2014 is going to be the year in which things get better in the world.
[37:17.880 --> 37:29.620]  And if we're right, which I don't know, but if we're right, I think it's going to be because of things like the CCC and HOPE and the hacker community and so many other allied communities.
[37:29.840 --> 37:30.920]  That's a great sentiment.
[37:30.920 --> 37:38.200]  And I think it's a necessary one because, yes, even if things don't get better, you have to believe they will or you lose hope, no pun intended.
[37:38.200 --> 37:38.720]  You do.
[37:39.480 --> 37:41.700]  You don't feel there's a reason to go forward.
[37:41.860 --> 37:45.400]  And seeing what came out of CCC, there is a reason to go forward.
[37:45.480 --> 37:46.580]  There's a reason to keep doing this.
[37:46.700 --> 37:47.200]  It's working.
[37:47.360 --> 37:47.980]  It's successful.
[37:48.120 --> 37:48.980]  It's relevant.
[37:48.980 --> 37:49.720]  It's important.
[37:49.740 --> 37:50.520]  It's vital.
[37:51.640 --> 37:53.380]  And I will be at the next one.
[37:53.720 --> 37:54.520]  I promise.
[37:55.280 --> 37:57.640]  Well, Mike, Mitch, it's really...
[37:58.200 --> 37:58.740]  I'm sorry, go ahead.
[37:59.820 --> 38:04.440]  We're going to carry on the tradition of this at HOPE.
[38:04.440 --> 38:08.960]  We've got already a bunch of amazing speakers invited.
[38:09.660 --> 38:17.700]  And there's going to be a lot of discussion that's very worthwhile that will continue to bring things forward in 2014 from that summer.
[38:17.920 --> 38:20.300]  And we'll be opening up speaker submissions really soon as well.
[38:20.380 --> 38:24.040]  But again, the pre-registration opens for real this coming Monday.
[38:24.040 --> 38:25.000]  I think 2 p.m.
[38:25.000 --> 38:26.520]  is the kickoff time for that.
[38:27.100 --> 38:28.140]  And that's going to be fun.
[38:28.260 --> 38:29.100]  That's going to be a lot of fun.
[38:29.640 --> 38:31.940]  Each conference is different in its own way.
[38:31.940 --> 38:34.040]  Each one does some things better than others.
[38:34.300 --> 38:37.540]  And we can learn all kinds of things from each other.
[38:37.720 --> 38:38.840]  That would be Monday, 2 p.m.
[38:38.900 --> 38:39.420]  New York time.
[38:39.760 --> 38:40.420]  Yes, 2 p.m.
[38:40.720 --> 38:41.140]  Eastern time.
[38:41.940 --> 38:44.580]  Well, Mike and Mitch, it must be really late where you are right now.
[38:44.660 --> 38:45.380]  What is it, 2 in the morning?
[38:46.620 --> 38:47.600]  Yeah, just about.
[38:47.840 --> 38:50.120]  Okay, well, you get some sleep and we'll see you back.
[38:50.680 --> 38:51.900]  Mitch, are you coming back to New York?
[38:53.060 --> 38:53.860]  Not this trip.
[38:53.860 --> 39:00.100]  I'm going to San Francisco and then off to Urbana, Illinois, where I'll be an artist-in-residence, and then the U.K.
[39:00.340 --> 39:00.920]  for the U.K.
[39:01.000 --> 39:01.500]  Makers Fair.
[39:01.760 --> 39:05.860]  Okay, well, we will see you, Mike, next week, I take it, at Off the Hook.
[39:07.140 --> 39:08.180]  I believe so.
[39:08.280 --> 39:11.100]  I just want to wish everyone a Happy New Year before then.
[39:11.480 --> 39:14.380]  All right, well, thanks, guys, for telling us all about that.
[39:14.400 --> 39:15.860]  It was really good to hear from you.
[39:16.840 --> 39:17.920]  And get home safe.
[39:19.100 --> 39:20.200]  Cool, good to hear your voice.
[39:20.540 --> 39:21.380]  All right, take care.
[39:23.120 --> 39:34.020]  And that was Mike and Mitch talking to us from Berlin about the Chaos Congress taking place in Hamburg, which was on the 27th, 28th, 29th, and 30th of December, as it is every year.
[39:34.140 --> 39:35.620]  And, Bernie, you couldn't hear a word of that, huh?
[39:36.420 --> 39:37.320]  Unfortunately, I could not.
[39:37.420 --> 39:38.940]  I could only hear your comment on them.
[39:39.060 --> 39:40.880]  But there was one thing I don't know if they mentioned.
[39:40.880 --> 39:54.680]  And they mentioned the social engineering experiment that was done there about soliciting many of the thousands of attendees to work for a security consulting firm.
[39:54.820 --> 39:57.400]  They didn't mention that, and I was hoping someone would.
[39:57.540 --> 39:58.620]  So why don't you tell us about that, Bernie?
[39:59.280 --> 40:09.940]  Well, I wasn't there, and all I know is from what one of our listeners, Christian, wrote to us recently about this, which was that an experiment was done to hire a bunch of actors.
[40:09.940 --> 40:33.960]  I don't know if they were just volunteers, probably, from the CCC folks, but to pose as corporate recruiters for a security consulting firm, one of these many shadowy companies, not unlike our own Booz Allen Hamilton here in the U.S., which counts the FBI and the NSA as some of its most valuable clients.
[40:35.240 --> 40:55.700]  And sort of vague descriptions of what they do, but the point was being made there by these actors, that this security consulting firm does the kind of things that shady three-to-letter agencies would use, both here and abroad, or Germany and abroad, I guess.
[40:55.940 --> 41:01.140]  And they try to get people interested in to sign up as applicants for jobs there.
[41:01.140 --> 41:04.380]  And of the... well, I don't know how many people were approached.
[41:04.380 --> 41:09.900]  There were 9,000 attendees, supposedly, at CCC, 30th CCC.
[41:10.140 --> 41:19.520]  But only two people of the many, many people that were approached by many volunteers expressed any interest in working for a firm like that.
[41:19.520 --> 41:27.960]  And Christian, who wrote to us yesterday, asked whether... the word is that Americans are a little more...
[41:31.060 --> 41:34.080]  less apprehensive about working for a company like that.
[41:34.160 --> 41:37.540]  And I wondered how he got that impression and what we think about that.
[41:37.860 --> 41:46.620]  Well, that fascinated me to read Christian's letter, because, yeah, only two people out of however many they approached were wandering around an event with over 9,000 people.
[41:47.700 --> 41:54.060]  But over here, at many events that I've been to, I've seen people recruiting for companies like that over here.
[41:54.180 --> 41:57.900]  And they seem to be getting a more receptive audience than just two people, so...
[41:57.900 --> 42:01.480]  Security Solutions Limited, I believe, was LLC or something like that.
[42:01.860 --> 42:01.900]  Security Solutions, yeah.
[42:01.900 --> 42:02.640]  That was good.
[42:02.700 --> 42:03.120]  That was good.
[42:03.240 --> 42:05.820]  It was a very good experiment, and I applaud whoever came up with that.
[42:05.920 --> 42:06.840]  I just found out something.
[42:07.020 --> 42:12.040]  I was actually making a telephone call just now, and I found out that our long-distance service has been suspended.
[42:12.040 --> 42:13.520]  So, I had to...
[42:14.160 --> 42:16.220]  We have Kyle on the line here from Seattle right now.
[42:16.300 --> 42:16.700]  Kyle, are you there?
[42:17.020 --> 42:17.240]  Yeah.
[42:17.720 --> 42:21.560]  Well, I had to call him on my cell phone and tell him to call us, because we can't call him, apparently.
[42:21.620 --> 42:23.540]  We used a different service to get overseas.
[42:24.120 --> 42:24.480]  Wow.
[42:24.680 --> 42:35.100]  So, Kyle, you actually got me into this, telling me that everything was going to be streamed, and it was going to be really awesome to attend the conference in that particular way.
[42:35.460 --> 42:37.400]  And I know that you saw a few talks that way.
[42:37.400 --> 42:38.280]  I saw a bunch of talks.
[42:38.280 --> 42:51.320]  In fact, at one point, just to be a total geek about it, I had four different streams set up in my house, where I could go from literally room one to room two to room six to room G, and it was just like being at the conference, except there weren't 9,000
[42:51.320 --> 42:52.060]  other people there.
[42:53.060 --> 42:54.760]  So, yeah, that was a bit of fun.
[42:54.860 --> 42:57.320]  But any talks that stand out in your mind?
[42:58.640 --> 42:59.040]  Sure.
[43:00.280 --> 43:01.480]  I watched a couple.
[43:01.480 --> 43:08.620]  Well, I liked watching Travis Goodspeech talk about hillbilly satellite tracking.
[43:10.220 --> 43:11.740]  Hillbilly satellite tracking.
[43:11.740 --> 43:12.280]  What is that?
[43:13.780 --> 43:21.240]  Basically, he made a custom satellite tracker out of, like, a dish, like a movable radar dish that would be on a boat.
[43:22.300 --> 43:29.640]  And it's kind of cool because he's talking about surplus industrial hardware being dirt cheap and doing cool stuff with it.
[43:29.960 --> 43:30.140]  Wow.
[43:30.640 --> 43:33.700]  And, you know, his kind of lifestyle.
[43:33.700 --> 43:36.660]  And he basically insulted a lot of Germans, you know.
[43:37.660 --> 43:39.300]  Wait, how did he insult Germans?
[43:39.300 --> 43:40.100]  I'm curious about that.
[43:40.460 --> 43:48.360]  Oh, no, he just was being very, not overly, but very neighborly, I guess is how you would put it.
[43:48.420 --> 43:49.600]  That's his thing, for sure.
[43:49.800 --> 43:55.580]  And, yeah, Travis is one of those guys that just makes magic happen wherever he happens to go.
[43:55.580 --> 43:58.000]  And, fortunately, he happens to go to the Hope Conferences as well.
[43:58.020 --> 43:59.600]  So we'll definitely see him there.
[44:00.240 --> 44:01.040]  But, wow.
[44:01.880 --> 44:04.840]  Of course, the Jacob Applebaum talk was really amazing.
[44:04.840 --> 44:16.580]  If you haven't seen it already, I suggest people go out there and watch that because he talks about the NSA and what they are capable of doing and the things that they can access.
[44:17.200 --> 44:21.620]  I mean, in the end, he asked how many people here are surprised by this.
[44:22.500 --> 44:25.320]  And I honestly could say I'm not that surprised by it.
[44:25.320 --> 44:28.220]  It's pretty incredible stuff, no question about it.
[44:28.320 --> 44:29.780]  But are you really surprised?
[44:30.440 --> 44:30.980]  I'm not.
[44:31.100 --> 44:37.760]  That's kind of why I've been sort of taking precautions against giving out all my information and just making things easy for them.
[44:38.400 --> 44:40.940]  They could probably get it anyway, but they have to try a little harder.
[44:41.020 --> 44:45.260]  And if we all made it so that they had to try a little harder, maybe they would...
[44:45.620 --> 44:46.100]  I don't know.
[44:46.220 --> 44:47.100]  They wouldn't give up, would they?
[44:47.600 --> 44:48.480]  They'd just keep trying.
[44:48.620 --> 44:50.500]  But the thing is to make people aware of it, right?
[44:50.500 --> 44:52.420]  And that's what Jacob is doing.
[44:53.060 --> 44:53.460]  Emmanuel?
[44:53.780 --> 44:54.200]  Yes, Bernie.
[44:54.840 --> 44:59.680]  Not only do they make people aware of it, but in that panel discussion, I guess it was...
[44:59.680 --> 45:02.600]  A lot of it was via video connection.
[45:03.440 --> 45:07.060]  Jacob and Julian Assange and...
[45:07.620 --> 45:11.740]  I forget her name, but she was one of the workers for WikiLeaks.
[45:12.220 --> 45:13.600]  Sarah Harrison, I think her name was.
[45:13.600 --> 45:26.820]  They drew an analogy or a parallel between the labor movements of the industrial age in the United States and abroad and the IT workers of today.
[45:27.300 --> 45:50.300]  And he was saying that as industrial workers joined any unions to fight for better working conditions and pay back, you know, back in the day, that IT workers today should band together to fight against government encroachments on Internet surveillance and speech freedoms.
[45:50.560 --> 46:17.280]  And I think that's a really excellent point because both people who have been in the news in recent years, Bradley Manning, now Chelsea Manning, and Ed Snowden were administrators, system administrators, and were able to, with their access, bring a huge amount of valuable information to the public that has started very valuable public discussions about American foreign policy and domestic policy.
[46:17.440 --> 46:21.700]  So I think that was a really interesting point to bring up that hadn't really occurred to me before.
[46:22.280 --> 46:23.320]  Yes, very much so.
[46:23.320 --> 46:25.420]  Let me just clarify before we go any further.
[46:25.820 --> 46:27.300]  Kyle, you can hear Bernie, correct?
[46:28.100 --> 46:29.360]  Yeah, I can hear all of you.
[46:29.440 --> 46:33.760]  There's a lot of stuff here I'd be happy to speak on.
[46:33.960 --> 46:34.980]  Yeah, definitely.
[46:35.200 --> 46:36.620]  I totally agree with what Bernie just said.
[46:36.660 --> 46:39.180]  Well, Bernie, can you hear Kyle, Bernie?
[46:40.260 --> 46:43.380]  I hear him a little bit better than I did Mitch and Mike.
[46:43.560 --> 46:43.880]  Okay.
[46:44.020 --> 46:44.700]  But it's still very low.
[46:44.860 --> 46:48.600]  Okay, but maybe that's because I'm using lines one and two instead of lines one and six.
[46:48.720 --> 46:49.400]  Maybe that's the reason.
[46:49.400 --> 46:51.040]  Okay, but Kyle, go ahead.
[46:51.120 --> 46:53.660]  Tell us your feelings.
[46:54.560 --> 46:54.740]  Right.
[46:54.900 --> 47:05.200]  Well, I saw all of those talks that you were talking about that Jacob did, the one with Julian, as well as Jacob's, I guess it was called Part 2.
[47:06.360 --> 47:08.420]  That was really excellent.
[47:08.420 --> 47:16.060]  And, I mean, I really, what I began with was the hardware talk that Travis gave.
[47:16.260 --> 47:17.900]  I liked it because it was different.
[47:18.180 --> 47:19.200]  You know, it was something he was into.
[47:19.420 --> 47:20.720]  It wasn't, you know, the hottest thing.
[47:20.960 --> 47:23.240]  There's tons of in-depth hardware talks.
[47:23.540 --> 47:30.560]  And for the same reason, I think there was a lot of diversity with the NSA talks and coverage of what's been in the news.
[47:30.560 --> 47:42.140]  And what really blew my mind was that people were really opening up what is in the leaks and what was in what we do know and really, like, getting into more, like, analysis.
[47:42.520 --> 47:50.060]  And I really, it opened my eyes to what the real breadth of information that is there and that people are really getting into it.
[47:50.140 --> 47:54.840]  And there's a lot of things that we're slowly finding out.
[47:55.400 --> 47:59.520]  And that was particularly exciting for me.
[48:00.160 --> 48:09.600]  And I liked the survey they did that Bernie talked about, as well as this, and it kind of correlates with this attitude he spoke to of, like, workers' movements and things.
[48:09.720 --> 48:10.640]  And I think it's really important.
[48:10.900 --> 48:18.720]  I mean, I'm from a generation, like, I don't know, I see a lot of people working in the industry and in the technology industry.
[48:18.720 --> 48:24.560]  And really, they get all kinds of benefits and, like, their lives are really set.
[48:24.680 --> 48:27.320]  And that's a really awesome thing for them personally.
[48:27.320 --> 48:35.520]  But I think people are becoming a bit more conscious about, you know, what kinds of work they're doing and what their real cost is.
[48:36.400 --> 48:44.120]  Even if it's a simple job, like, administering some hardware, yeah, you're just keeping a switch on and keeping some kind of device working.
[48:44.120 --> 48:49.040]  But, you know, what's the underlying impact of that device?
[48:49.280 --> 48:50.560]  Like, what is it doing?
[48:50.840 --> 48:51.580]  You know, that kind of thing.
[48:51.980 --> 48:58.080]  And one other thing I wanted to say was that there was an interesting talk by a guy named...
[48:58.080 --> 48:58.560]  Hello?
[48:58.860 --> 48:59.700]  A guy named Kurt.
[49:00.220 --> 49:00.700]  Okay.
[49:00.960 --> 49:02.220]  Opsal from the EFF.
[49:02.440 --> 49:04.400]  It's called Through a Prism Darkly.
[49:04.520 --> 49:13.980]  I suggest people watch that one, too, because it's also related to things we are finding out about the FISA court and different funny stuff like that.
[49:13.980 --> 49:14.660]  Yeah, it's interesting.
[49:14.940 --> 49:25.320]  So many of the people that you have mentioned, Travis and Jacob and the guy from the EFF, so many of them are from this country, you know?
[49:25.360 --> 49:26.460]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[49:26.600 --> 49:27.300]  Isn't that amazing?
[49:27.540 --> 49:29.260]  It was really remarkable.
[49:31.380 --> 49:32.180]  I didn't...
[49:32.180 --> 49:39.700]  I tried to watch some of the, like, German talks because of the translation features and stuff, but it just didn't quite work out.
[49:39.700 --> 49:52.900]  It just was more me choosing talks that were accessible, that interested me, that I knew I could understand, that just... I thought I would get something out of it that just really piqued my interest in the moment.
[49:53.880 --> 50:05.340]  I did try to stretch it a little bit and, like, watch some talks that were maybe just pure German and forget the translations to try to just listen and hear the tone of everyone.
[50:05.340 --> 50:09.660]  So that was part of the real joy of being able to stay up.
[50:09.800 --> 50:14.880]  And it was hard, you know, being on a different time zone and stuff in its own way.
[50:14.980 --> 50:20.080]  I know it sounds kind of wussy, but it was kind of tricky.
[50:20.080 --> 50:28.100]  And, you know, when I was up and able to, I listened to as many of the talks, like I said, that we've talked about that piqued my interest.
[50:28.280 --> 50:33.020]  Yeah, and it was kind of cool because we were talking to each other and I was saying, Kyle, are you going to go to this talk?
[50:33.220 --> 50:34.500]  All right, I'll see you in that room.
[50:34.520 --> 50:36.540]  And we were both watching the same video feed.
[50:36.680 --> 50:40.720]  And at one point, even, you know, just to feel like I was part of it, I spilled my mate bottle.
[50:41.940 --> 50:46.280]  And it was very German and it felt kind of right, you know.
[50:46.860 --> 50:51.120]  Right, I had to tell you, you know, don't, you know, you keep talking to me.
[50:51.220 --> 50:51.820]  I'm trying to listen.
[50:52.180 --> 50:56.280]  And it was really rude because, you know, it's a good talk.
[50:56.480 --> 50:59.780]  And, I mean, other people obviously, you know, know that you're doing that.
[50:59.780 --> 51:00.160]  Yeah.
[51:00.740 --> 51:07.520]  Well, it's definitely something that we'd like to do more of on this end, if we can pull it off, is make it available to people that can't make it.
[51:08.740 --> 51:12.860]  We've been so focused on just making it happen in the first place.
[51:12.940 --> 51:20.820]  But I think, you know, if we expand a bit, get more people involved, we can open it up so that the whole world can take part in this and really make it a global conversation.
[51:20.940 --> 51:22.840]  But to do that, we obviously need help.
[51:22.900 --> 51:23.820]  We need more volunteers.
[51:24.280 --> 51:28.380]  We need more services and infrastructure and things like that.
[51:29.240 --> 51:31.900]  But there's nothing we really can't do, though, if we put our minds to it.
[51:32.020 --> 51:39.600]  Even in this crazy place where it's so hard to get things done sometimes, there's no reason why we can't accomplish that.
[51:39.720 --> 51:41.580]  I mean, hackers make anything possible.
[51:41.920 --> 51:47.600]  So, again, anyone who wants to get involved in any kind of project for hope, projects at hope.net is the best email address.
[51:47.600 --> 51:56.920]  And our website, which will become real sometime soon, is www.hope.net or x.hope.net.
[51:57.040 --> 52:02.480]  And we also have that URL that's just a whole bunch of Xs that we got, which I don't know how many Xs there are.
[52:02.540 --> 52:04.920]  But it begins with Xs and ends with Xs because we...
[52:04.920 --> 52:06.060]  Is it 18?
[52:06.260 --> 52:08.260]  So it's xxx dot...
[52:08.260 --> 52:12.100]  And I'm not going to say X 18 times, but imagine I did dot xxx.
[52:12.400 --> 52:14.360]  That literally will get to us.
[52:14.500 --> 52:18.400]  And it's the coolest domain name in the world because it looks like it was X'd out.
[52:18.840 --> 52:23.240]  But it really is just a pornographic domain, which has no porn on it.
[52:23.300 --> 52:28.500]  But I had to actually register to become a pornographic domain provider.
[52:29.160 --> 52:31.800]  I don't think I'm required, though, to provide pornography.
[52:31.800 --> 52:33.560]  Is there a new job title for you?
[52:33.680 --> 52:35.120]  It's one of them, yes.
[52:35.340 --> 52:39.540]  It's yet something else I can put on my resume, which I'm pretty sure I won't be doing.
[52:40.780 --> 52:43.680]  But there was some controversy, though.
[52:43.920 --> 52:52.360]  I know during the talk with Jacob and Sarah and Julian, where Julian was on the telescreen, there was some sabotage.
[52:52.860 --> 52:55.480]  Sabotage, I believe, that took place locally.
[52:55.480 --> 53:01.640]  Somebody apparently disrupted one of the machines that was feeding the...
[53:01.640 --> 53:03.860]  I believe it was feeding it to the outside world.
[53:04.000 --> 53:08.920]  I don't think they disrupted what was coming into the auditorium, but the rest of the world kept getting cut off.
[53:09.020 --> 53:13.480]  And I was watching the Twitter feeds, and boy, there were a lot of hashtags for 30C3.
[53:14.300 --> 53:16.280]  But people were saying, oh, it's down again.
[53:16.480 --> 53:22.160]  And, of course, everybody was saying the NSA was behind it, which is great to say, but, you know, I really...
[53:22.160 --> 53:25.480]  I think in this particular case, it just would have been too obvious.
[53:25.760 --> 53:32.360]  And as it turns out, somebody, we don't know who, I don't think I know who, disrupted it.
[53:32.580 --> 53:33.500]  Did you know more, Kyle?
[53:33.740 --> 53:34.160]  Yeah.
[53:34.580 --> 53:39.820]  Someone physically removed the power terminal to the switching system.
[53:39.960 --> 53:42.120]  In fact, each room had a router.
[53:42.120 --> 53:52.880]  They had an incredibly, like, vastly more complex network because instead of having switches in every room, they actually had routers in every room as well as switches in every room.
[53:53.200 --> 54:00.600]  So it made it so there's a stack of these, like, very large machines running backbones from room to room.
[54:01.240 --> 54:05.080]  And someone just walked right up and, I guess, removed the power plug.
[54:05.080 --> 54:12.920]  And when they walked up and checked on it, it was hanging, you know, freely without being plugged in.
[54:13.040 --> 54:14.360]  And they went and plugged it in.
[54:14.440 --> 54:18.480]  So imagine they probably had to reboot a whole bunch of stuff and check it out.
[54:18.560 --> 54:19.620]  And it did take quite a while.
[54:19.820 --> 54:28.840]  Well, you know, sometimes low-tech solutions are the simplest ways to solve a problem, but also low-tech sabotage is the quickest way to screw things up.
[54:29.540 --> 54:32.700]  I'm very curious who would want to do that, who would want to shut somebody up.
[54:32.880 --> 54:39.020]  This is, you know, one of the reasons why I rail against denial of service attacks because it's just another form of shutting people up you don't agree with.
[54:39.400 --> 54:48.100]  And in this particular case, somebody did that to Julian for one reason or another, and the result was just annoyance for a lot of people that were trying to hear what he had to say.
[54:48.380 --> 54:57.620]  Yeah, that incident also, I think, was a bandwidth thing because people were beginning to watch that talk.
[54:58.440 --> 55:08.220]  That might have been a bit of a different incident in that I think somebody, like, from WikiLeaks tweeted the talk or the link to the stream, and then they were having bandwidth trouble there.
[55:08.360 --> 55:10.780]  Yeah, there were a couple different things, a couple different problems with that.
[55:10.940 --> 55:11.140]  You're right.
[55:11.240 --> 55:16.400]  It's tough to really get the whole story, but I do know in one instance an entire switch was powered down.
[55:17.040 --> 55:17.480]  All right.
[55:17.560 --> 55:28.940]  Well, folks, we're almost out of time, so any words of inspiration that maybe we can give to our American brethren here to do as good a job as the folks over in Germany were able to pull off?
[55:29.600 --> 55:32.060]  Well, there are ways and means to get involved in doing so.
[55:32.060 --> 55:36.760]  So this week, there's a 2600 meeting, probably somewhere near you, anywhere in the world.
[55:36.860 --> 55:37.320]  That's right.
[55:37.540 --> 55:38.880]  It's the first Friday of the month.
[55:39.240 --> 55:39.580]  Wow.
[55:39.800 --> 55:42.680]  So go to 2600.com slash meetings and find one near you.
[55:42.780 --> 55:43.780]  It's been a busy week.
[55:43.780 --> 55:44.460]  It really has.
[55:44.660 --> 55:45.060]  It really has.
[55:45.280 --> 55:45.640]  Wow.
[55:45.860 --> 55:46.080]  Okay.
[55:47.660 --> 55:52.860]  Tomorrow, we release volume three of the Hacker Digest, which is from 1986.
[55:52.960 --> 55:56.460]  And boy, that's interesting because there's a lot in there talking about the NSA.
[55:56.460 --> 55:58.660]  There's a lot talking about surveillance from 1986.
[55:58.860 --> 56:01.260]  I mean, hackers have been on this thing for a while now.
[56:01.780 --> 56:03.720]  So you can get some perspective on that.
[56:03.840 --> 56:10.320]  So that'll be available for Kindle and for whatever electronic gizmos and devices you have, PDF format, you name it.
[56:10.740 --> 56:11.680]  Friday is the meeting.
[56:12.480 --> 56:14.960]  Monday, I hope pre-registration starts.
[56:15.140 --> 56:18.020]  Tuesday is a new issue of 2600 that comes out, the winter issue.
[56:18.500 --> 56:20.460]  So, wow, we're busy people.
[56:20.580 --> 56:22.720]  And we have a lot of projects ahead of us.
[56:22.740 --> 56:25.180]  And we'd like you to join us and become a part of it.
[56:25.300 --> 56:28.260]  Coming to the meeting on Friday, anywhere that there is a meeting.
[56:28.260 --> 56:33.740]  If you look at 2600.com slash meetings, you'll see a whole list throughout the entire world.
[56:34.080 --> 56:37.040]  And that's a good place to start getting involved in hope.
[56:38.000 --> 56:39.360]  Get in touch with us from there.
[56:39.400 --> 56:44.980]  And hopefully, we'll get a huge amount of people to do all kinds of projects, including pneumatic tubes.
[56:45.420 --> 56:46.680]  Kyle, that is the coolest thing.
[56:46.740 --> 56:47.480]  You heard about that, right?
[56:47.980 --> 56:50.620]  Yeah, I watched the Seidenstrasse...
[56:51.520 --> 56:52.840]  I think that's how you pronounce it.
[56:52.940 --> 56:59.980]  I watched that talk, and I saw some of the pictures of the system, and it looks really amazing.
[57:00.700 --> 57:05.020]  Above, like, several kilometers of this large yellow tube.
[57:05.520 --> 57:09.320]  I cannot think of a single reason why we can't do something like that at Hope.
[57:09.480 --> 57:11.340]  So, we're going to focus on that.
[57:11.560 --> 57:13.440]  Hey, we're out of time, but thanks, Kyle.
[57:13.640 --> 57:14.140]  Thanks, Bernie.
[57:14.320 --> 57:14.760]  Thanks, Rob.
[57:14.900 --> 57:18.240]  Thanks, Mike and Mitch over in Berlin for joining us tonight.
[57:18.540 --> 57:20.680]  And I look forward to the new year, 2014.
[57:20.800 --> 57:22.000]  It's going to be a good one.
[57:22.660 --> 57:24.400]  Just watch out for thin ice, all right?
[57:24.760 --> 57:25.340]  Have a good night.
[58:09.420 --> 58:20.170]  In my camp, Why do we forget What's been said?
[58:21.190 --> 58:28.690]  And play the game of life Without hearts I
[58:44.820 --> 58:57.180]  may cry Someday But the tears will dry Whichever way
[59:06.490 --> 59:19.520]  It will be A story It will be Just A Story
[59:22.720 --> 59:36.120]  I knew a girl Who tried to walk across the lake Cause it was winter And all this was ice.
[59:38.600 --> 59:40.360]  That's a hell of a thing to do, you know.
[59:45.170 --> 59:48.990]  They say this lake is as big as the ocean.
[59:52.820 --> 59:54.520]  I want to cheer about it.
[59:59.620 --> 01:00:03.320]  Hi, this is Julian Gioiello, and I'm a listener and supporter of WBAI.
[01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:05.580]  I'm a student at NYU, and I live in New York City.
[01:00:05.580 --> 01:00:08.620]  And I want to shout out to the other young listeners of WBAI.
[01:00:08.780 --> 01:00:13.980]  We have to help keep this station going, and the easiest way to do it is through the WBAI buddy system.
[01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:19.240]  If you donate as little as $10 a month, you have proactively promoted free speech radio.
[01:00:19.540 --> 01:00:24.280]  Go to the website wbai.org, click the donate button, and make a difference.