[00:00.940 --> 00:05.920]  Hi, I'm Paul Fisher, from WBAI Then and WBAI Now.
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[00:50.660 --> 00:55.700]  And you are listening to WBAI New York, where we're not afraid to make fun of ourselves.
[00:55.980 --> 00:58.560]  7 o'clock time once again for Off the Hook.
[01:03.760 --> 01:16.400]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough We couldn't get much worse
[01:20.610 --> 01:25.570]  To expect the worst I hope that's understood One big leap bow
[02:48.210 --> 02:49.630]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:49.790 --> 02:50.510]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:50.590 --> 02:52.510]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:52.510 --> 02:54.170]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:54.390 --> 02:54.790]  Hi there.
[02:54.910 --> 02:55.250]  Rob T.
[02:55.370 --> 02:55.810]  Firefly.
[02:56.030 --> 02:56.370]  Good evening.
[02:56.630 --> 02:57.270]  Bernie S.
[02:57.690 --> 02:58.810]  Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[02:59.410 --> 03:01.270]  And it's a rainy day here in New York.
[03:01.470 --> 03:02.690]  We're having a lot of fun with that.
[03:03.150 --> 03:09.930]  We also have a bunch of technology-related happenings that we wish to share.
[03:09.930 --> 03:12.930]  And we'll be taking phone calls and the usual fun stuff.
[03:14.570 --> 03:16.010]  Yeah, so where do we start?
[03:16.330 --> 03:18.610]  Well, I guess first of all, we should give an update.
[03:18.810 --> 03:22.130]  Now, it's unfair of me, Rob, because I'm not sure you have the information.
[03:22.310 --> 03:25.490]  But we gave out Jim's address last week.
[03:25.570 --> 03:29.030]  And as if to thwart us, he moved right after we gave out the address.
[03:29.610 --> 03:30.830]  Do we have the new address?
[03:31.290 --> 03:32.530]  We don't have the new address.
[03:32.810 --> 03:35.030]  Can we get the new address within the hour, do you think?
[03:35.610 --> 03:36.710]  I am not sure.
[03:36.710 --> 03:38.710]  Because I know it was sent to us, wasn't it, somewhere?
[03:38.930 --> 03:40.050]  I don't believe it was.
[03:40.110 --> 03:40.510]  Oh, it wasn't.
[03:40.610 --> 03:41.710]  Okay, then we don't know his new address.
[03:41.870 --> 03:43.670]  Don't send things to the address we gave you last week.
[03:43.770 --> 03:45.950]  Although, if you're listening to the show and you know his new address, send it to us.
[03:46.210 --> 03:48.490]  Bernie, maybe you're in a position to find the address.
[03:48.670 --> 03:50.910]  Well, if he's where he was before, and I'm not sure he is.
[03:50.910 --> 03:51.870]  Well, we don't know that.
[03:52.030 --> 03:52.430]  We don't know that.
[03:52.430 --> 03:52.990]  He could be anywhere.
[03:53.310 --> 03:54.990]  Well, I don't have the current answer.
[03:55.070 --> 03:59.090]  I will call his aunt, who I have a good relationship with, and I'll find out.
[03:59.190 --> 04:02.910]  Can you do that seamlessly so we don't know that you're doing it while we're doing a radio show?
[04:02.950 --> 04:03.930]  Oh, you want me to do it now?
[04:03.930 --> 04:05.470]  Well, I'm just saying by the end of the show.
[04:05.470 --> 04:08.590]  That could be a mission, that we get Jim's address by the end of the show.
[04:08.710 --> 04:21.570]  Just as a fail-safe, though, I can say that if you would like to send Jim some get well soon wishes and things like that, you can always send them to our address, OTH at 2600.com, and we'll make sure they get passed along.
[04:22.050 --> 04:30.890]  And if somebody out there who is listening to this and knows his new address, knows one of our phone numbers, you can send us a text message and maybe we'll read it over the air, if we trust you.
[04:31.790 --> 04:33.170]  Yeah, that's how we do things here.
[04:33.930 --> 04:36.610]  You're not supposed to give out our secret operational secrets.
[04:36.810 --> 04:38.210]  No, but I didn't give out any phone numbers either.
[04:38.430 --> 04:43.770]  But I'm just saying, people think that everything we know, we just know, but sometimes now they know our secrets.
[04:44.030 --> 04:46.610]  Well, that's what's unique about this place.
[04:46.630 --> 04:50.570]  We do things that other shows don't do, other stations don't do.
[04:50.730 --> 04:57.710]  One thing, though, that no station can do, and Bernie, I'd like your opinion on this, your intelligence on this.
[04:59.190 --> 05:03.590]  Basically, there are certain sounds that you can never make over the airwaves.
[05:03.590 --> 05:05.830]  Now, of course, we know about the seven dirty sounds that you can't make.
[05:06.370 --> 05:09.430]  We helped establish that precedent with the Supreme Court.
[05:09.430 --> 05:35.170]  But recently, recently, there was a bit of a scolding in the form of a $1.9 million fine on Comcast, Viacom and Disney for willfully and repeatedly violating federal law by carrying a commercial that was for an action thriller that actually came out last year called Olympus Has Fallen.
[05:35.170 --> 05:45.310]  And inside that trailer were familiar beeps and screeches known as EAS tones, emergency alert system.
[05:45.510 --> 05:55.870]  And apparently, if you dare to broadcast those particular tones, you can get in a whole heap of trouble as Comcast, Viacom and Disney found out.
[05:56.030 --> 05:57.170]  Is that correct, Bernie?
[05:57.810 --> 05:58.330]  That's right.
[05:58.590 --> 05:59.710]  You probably heard them.
[05:59.850 --> 06:06.310]  It's like when they announced the Amber Alerts over the radio and you hear this just preceding the Amber Alerts.
[06:06.410 --> 06:07.730]  Wait, they do it for Amber Alerts?
[06:07.730 --> 06:09.070]  I've never heard one for an Amber Alert.
[06:09.150 --> 06:10.790]  Yeah, I hear them all the time down here in Philadelphia.
[06:11.010 --> 06:12.270]  Well, you have a lot of missing kids down there.
[06:12.370 --> 06:13.070]  I've never heard...
[06:13.070 --> 06:13.130]  Exactly.
[06:13.130 --> 06:14.950]  I see the weekly test tap.
[06:15.010 --> 06:17.810]  In fact, I saw one yesterday on a cable system.
[06:17.950 --> 06:19.350]  It went over every single channel.
[06:19.350 --> 06:21.970]  And it said, required weekly test.
[06:22.110 --> 06:25.690]  And then 30 seconds later, it said it again and interrupted the program I was watching.
[06:25.870 --> 06:32.130]  The other day, it happened over a Sirius satellite radio, but they didn't say what it was.
[06:32.330 --> 06:36.690]  It was kind of a, kind of a, I think a big gap there because you hear the tones.
[06:36.870 --> 06:37.450]  There's no announcement.
[06:37.630 --> 06:40.070]  There's nothing displayed on the screen and it just goes away.
[06:40.170 --> 06:42.690]  And you hope that there's, you know, not a tornado hitting for you.
[06:42.690 --> 06:51.410]  Yeah, it's what they, you hear an audible tone and you hear a raspy sound, which is actually a frequency shift keying.
[06:51.550 --> 07:00.290]  It's sort of packet radio tones you're hearing, which can be demodulated into the text that is embedded in that message.
[07:00.290 --> 07:09.330]  But the bottom line is, if you broadcast that or put it on a cable channel, it can trigger devices and other networks and causes all kinds of problems.
[07:09.330 --> 07:12.970]  And the SEC has very strict regulations prohibiting this.
[07:13.270 --> 07:18.310]  And apparently Comcast and those other businesses just didn't care or didn't get the word.
[07:18.710 --> 07:22.910]  So Bernie, so this is, you said FSK modulated, so it's data going over the airwaves.
[07:22.990 --> 07:27.870]  Can I buy like a teletype with a ticker that will print out all the alerts in my area?
[07:28.330 --> 07:30.910]  Yeah, or more easily, you could just download an application.
[07:31.170 --> 07:32.330]  Oh, that's boring.
[07:32.790 --> 07:35.190]  It'll show up on your computer screen.
[07:35.310 --> 07:37.150]  But yeah, it's low, it's like 1200 baud.
[07:37.290 --> 07:39.010]  It's pretty, pretty, it's not even that bad.
[07:39.010 --> 07:42.090]  Yeah, it's pretty slow bits per second by today's standard.
[07:42.450 --> 07:46.170]  It's not just a matter of the information in the tones, though.
[07:46.650 --> 07:48.570]  It's supposed to be just an emergency signal.
[07:48.570 --> 07:53.210]  When you hear that, you're supposed to know that it's an emergency, not a commercial for some damn stupid movie.
[07:53.530 --> 07:57.010]  So they're supposed to limit it to things that are actual emergencies.
[07:57.010 --> 07:57.370]  Okay.
[07:57.390 --> 07:58.510]  And that's the problem.
[07:58.570 --> 07:59.690]  And that leads to my question.
[07:59.890 --> 08:12.030]  If the data contained within said commercial is gibberish and doesn't trigger any machinery whatsoever, but to the human ear, it sounds like that magical tone, is that something the FCC has a problem with?
[08:12.270 --> 08:12.750]  Yes.
[08:13.470 --> 08:13.890]  Okay.
[08:13.890 --> 08:20.890]  So if one of us imitates that screech, we could actually find ourselves on the receiving end of a $1.9 million fine.
[08:21.130 --> 08:23.110]  You'd have to be a very good whistler, Emmanuel.
[08:23.290 --> 08:27.370]  You'd have to be able to whistle right on that particular dual frequency tone.
[08:27.370 --> 08:28.090]  Excuse me.
[08:28.150 --> 08:30.770]  I know Kevin Mitnick, he can whistle nuclear missiles out of silos.
[08:30.930 --> 08:31.050]  Okay.
[08:31.210 --> 08:34.130]  So yeah, we were in the right community for that.
[08:34.550 --> 08:35.330]  But okay.
[08:35.430 --> 08:36.830]  So this seems like something that...
[08:38.290 --> 08:40.470]  What if someone calls us, right?
[08:40.550 --> 08:41.410]  And they're playing...
[08:41.910 --> 08:44.290]  Well, they're playing another radio station in the background for some reason.
[08:44.430 --> 08:45.310]  I don't know why they call us then.
[08:45.510 --> 08:51.610]  And on that radio station, all of a sudden, there's an EAS alert and it goes out over our airwaves because they have...
[08:51.610 --> 08:55.850]  Or they're playing a tape and it's contained there or they're just malicious or something.
[08:55.850 --> 08:58.930]  It just seems like there's so many ways that this could happen.
[08:59.730 --> 08:59.830]  Yep.
[09:01.010 --> 09:01.390]  Okay.
[09:01.450 --> 09:02.930]  Well, I feel really reassured now.
[09:03.070 --> 09:03.330]  Thank you.
[09:04.650 --> 09:05.670]  You know, I would like...
[09:05.670 --> 09:06.470]  This is a call.
[09:06.730 --> 09:08.670]  I know the deadline was today for Hope Talks.
[09:08.710 --> 09:11.090]  Actually, you still have five hours, technically.
[09:11.510 --> 09:12.450]  We might extend it.
[09:12.510 --> 09:12.810]  I don't know.
[09:14.010 --> 09:20.530]  But if somebody wants to give a talk on dissecting those frequencies, I would go to that talk myself.
[09:20.530 --> 09:21.570]  I would love to see that.
[09:21.670 --> 09:22.910]  I'd like to see somebody...
[09:22.910 --> 09:25.690]  Because you can do that as long as the radio isn't broadcasting it from...
[09:25.690 --> 09:28.750]  From the room that we have at the Hope Conference.
[09:29.430 --> 09:31.190]  We can certainly talk about it freely.
[09:31.190 --> 09:33.470]  But it's obviously something that's a very sensitive subject.
[09:35.150 --> 09:35.970]  I'm just curious.
[09:36.150 --> 09:36.610]  This is...
[09:36.610 --> 09:41.630]  Of all the things Comcast is doing and has done and wants to do, this is the problem the FCC has?
[09:41.770 --> 09:42.630]  Oh, it's one problem.
[09:42.650 --> 09:44.730]  But I guess it's the only thing they could nail them for.
[09:45.110 --> 09:50.410]  I mean, this is the only enforcement action that I'm aware of against Comcast, which does all kinds of crazy stuff.
[09:50.550 --> 09:51.490]  But the thing is, Comcast didn't even do it.
[09:51.530 --> 09:52.370]  They just aired a commercial.
[09:52.370 --> 09:57.350]  I don't see anything there about the person who... or the people who made the commercial getting fined.
[09:57.410 --> 09:58.730]  They must have gotten fined as well, right?
[09:58.870 --> 09:59.750]  Does that make sense, Bernie?
[09:59.850 --> 10:00.910]  I mean, they're not broadcasters.
[10:01.110 --> 10:02.210]  They just made the commercial.
[10:02.230 --> 10:04.510]  But they seem to only be fining cable companies.
[10:04.650 --> 10:09.490]  It's the broadcaster or the cable carrier that is responsible, not for the content provider.
[10:10.430 --> 10:17.390]  Okay, so then we're free to make as many of these fake recordings as we want, leave them lying around, and if somebody broadcasts them, then they're the ones in trouble.
[10:17.750 --> 10:18.050]  Yep.
[10:18.270 --> 10:18.790]  Okay, all right.
[10:18.810 --> 10:19.470]  It's good to understand that.
[10:19.490 --> 10:28.890]  Now, my next question, EAS, Emergency Alert System, that is the second... actually, the third emergency system that we have in this country.
[10:28.970 --> 10:31.130]  The first, I believe, was called Conorad back in the 50s.
[10:31.130 --> 10:34.910]  But we had EBS, the Emergency Broadcasting System.
[10:35.670 --> 10:41.990]  And some of you might remember that particular tone as a high-pitched single tone followed by an announcement.
[10:42.390 --> 10:43.330]  You remember that, right, Bernie?
[10:43.810 --> 10:44.170]  Oh, yeah.
[10:44.490 --> 10:46.610]  Now, is it illegal for us to broadcast that?
[10:46.610 --> 10:47.950]  That system's been discontinued.
[10:49.450 --> 10:51.150]  I don't know if it's the same tone.
[10:51.370 --> 10:52.030]  It kind of sounds similar.
[10:52.030 --> 10:52.810]  No, it's a very different tone.
[10:52.890 --> 10:53.510]  Very different tone.
[10:54.170 --> 10:59.150]  You know, I don't know if the FCC repealed that regulation, but I would be careful.
[11:00.230 --> 11:03.070]  Well, it's not like I have it lying around, but I'm just curious.
[11:03.450 --> 11:05.190]  You know, hackers are curious people.
[11:05.550 --> 11:07.650]  Well, you know, I mean, you could have it in a movie.
[11:07.830 --> 11:10.290]  If you're producing a movie or something, it could be in a movie.
[11:10.410 --> 11:13.750]  But if that movie ever actually got on TV, then you'd have a problem.
[11:14.010 --> 11:15.410]  That's a very good point.
[11:15.410 --> 11:16.370]  What happens then?
[11:16.590 --> 11:19.150]  And if it's on PTV, is that the same thing as broadcast TV?
[11:19.730 --> 11:26.590]  I think there should be a distinction, but apparently there wasn't because they were finding Comcast, and Comcast is not a broadcaster.
[11:26.690 --> 11:28.170]  They do not broadcast it over the air.
[11:28.170 --> 11:30.610]  They own an entity that does.
[11:30.970 --> 11:31.750]  That's true.
[11:32.090 --> 11:32.290]  That's true.
[11:32.590 --> 11:34.110]  Don't they own TV stations or something?
[11:34.930 --> 11:35.910]  Like over the air?
[11:36.190 --> 11:38.350]  Well, they own NBC Universal, so I guess, yes.
[11:38.610 --> 11:39.650]  So that's probably what happened.
[11:39.770 --> 11:50.930]  It wasn't what they were broadcasting over their, or narrowcasting over the cable systems because Comcast, I think the company is now called Comcast NBC Universal is the full name of the company.
[11:51.190 --> 11:56.590]  They own a bunch of NBC TV affiliates because they bought NBC Universal.
[11:56.590 --> 12:01.730]  So I guess I went out over some of those TV stations, transmitters, and they're linked.
[12:01.890 --> 12:03.770]  Other stations, it's kind of like the internet.
[12:04.290 --> 12:13.430]  TV and radio stations listen to each other for these tones, and there's a hierarchy, but it can be spoofed, and that's a problem.
[12:14.130 --> 12:19.750]  Yeah, and they're always doing experiments, statewide tests, and nationwide tests, and things like that.
[12:21.330 --> 12:24.510]  And almost invariably, when you actually need it, it's not there.
[12:24.610 --> 12:28.510]  It doesn't work properly, and there's all kinds of accusations whenever that happens.
[12:28.650 --> 12:39.730]  If you want to hear what EBS sounded like, I know we have some radio shows on the 2600 site, probably Voice of Long Island, maybe Brain Damage, one of those shows.
[12:40.010 --> 12:44.570]  We have EBS, an actual EBS alert that went out over the air, so you can hear what it sounds like.
[12:44.790 --> 12:45.910]  Just don't broadcast that.
[12:45.910 --> 12:46.570]  You might get in trouble.
[12:47.470 --> 12:52.210]  So yeah, that's part of the broadcast world is that kind of thing.
[12:52.290 --> 12:53.910]  Now, the FCC is involved in other things as well.
[12:55.050 --> 13:01.650]  One of them involves a mobile phone jamming device.
[13:02.230 --> 13:13.990]  Yeah, the FCC is asking, only asking, I imagine they'd be demanding at some point, asking for a $48,000 fine against a man who allegedly kept a phone jammer in his car.
[13:14.290 --> 13:28.250]  The FCC said it would seek to impose three counts of a $16,000 penalty against Florida resident Jason Humphreys for illegally operating a mobile phone jamming device and causing interference intentionally.
[13:28.630 --> 13:42.050]  Now, according to the FCC complaint, Humphreys kept the jammer in his truck and he activated it during his daily commute in order to prevent other drivers from using their mobile devices behind the wheel, which is against the law, right?
[13:42.270 --> 13:50.390]  The result, authorities say, was the creation of interference along a length of Interstate 4 outside the city of Tampa as he traveled.
[13:50.570 --> 13:51.690]  I guess every day this happened.
[13:52.010 --> 14:00.090]  The interference caught the attention, believe it or not, of Metro PCS network operators in Tampa, who then reported the issue to local FCC agents.
[14:00.270 --> 14:08.350]  And then in May of last year, Humphreys was stopped by sheriff deputies who noted that the truck's jammer also interfered with their own two-way radios.
[14:08.830 --> 14:11.410]  I gotta say, Humphreys had one hell of a jammer.
[14:11.550 --> 14:13.330]  He could cause all this mayhem.
[14:13.710 --> 14:26.730]  Humphreys, I'll go on record as saying, I've played with jammers and, you know, I'm lucky if I can get an entire room to be disabled, let alone the area surrounding an interstate and sheriffs and things like that.
[14:27.170 --> 14:28.290]  Bernie, what do you think of this?
[14:28.610 --> 14:33.550]  Well, he might have had a more powerful one, but maybe even more importantly, he might have connected it to a real antenna.
[14:33.810 --> 14:45.290]  I think like the portable one you had demonstrated on the air here years ago, I think the statute limitation is over now, wasn't really connected to a serious gain antenna.
[14:45.530 --> 14:53.010]  But if you have a real cell phone antenna on your vehicle and you transmit, if you connect your jammer to that, it could have some serious range.
[14:53.370 --> 14:56.530]  And I'm really curious how the guy got caught, you know?
[14:56.890 --> 15:01.030]  Apparently, it was the Metro PCS, which monitors their network.
[15:01.590 --> 15:04.890]  They operate a CDMA network in different parts of the country.
[15:04.890 --> 15:14.270]  They, um, prepaid service, I think, but they, uh, probably noticed interference in their network and they noticed it probably happening at the same time this guy commuted every day.
[15:14.870 --> 15:21.650]  So then they contacted the FCC, which probably staked out with a monitoring system in their van and saw, oh, this is happening.
[15:21.730 --> 15:24.610]  And they finally tracked it down to this, this guy's vehicle.
[15:24.610 --> 15:26.310]  And then they sent the sheriff after him.
[15:26.330 --> 15:27.490]  I think that's pretty brilliant.
[15:27.570 --> 15:27.990]  They got him.
[15:28.090 --> 15:29.410]  It's the sequel to Takedown.
[15:29.550 --> 15:30.310]  That's what it sounds like to me.
[15:30.310 --> 15:36.410]  Uh, but now you mentioned that if you hook a jammer up to your cell phone antenna in your car, that you get increased range.
[15:36.630 --> 15:43.350]  What if after the show, we take a trip over to Empire State Building and go visit our transmitter and we hook up a cell jammer there?
[15:43.490 --> 15:44.930]  Could we black out the entire city?
[15:45.910 --> 15:49.410]  You mean from the, from the top, from like a lookout of the Empire State Building?
[15:49.550 --> 15:50.330]  Well, maybe, yeah.
[15:50.490 --> 15:51.510]  I'm just, theoretically.
[15:52.310 --> 15:55.450]  Um, it could cause a lot of problems, but you'd be actually a lot higher.
[15:55.890 --> 15:59.010]  Um, the way cell phone, cell phone signals are kind of line of sight.
[15:59.370 --> 16:04.010]  And if you're transmitting from a really, you don't, you don't find cell sites that high up on the Empire State Building.
[16:04.170 --> 16:10.090]  They're normally just a few stories up because the signals travel sort of, you want them to be traveling horizontally.
[16:10.650 --> 16:19.170]  So, um, I don't think if you, you had your jammer way up on top of the Empire State Building, it would cause that much interference except to maybe some of the people near the empire, top of the Empire State Building.
[16:19.210 --> 16:24.070]  Okay, well, let's say I visit my patent attorney on the 43rd floor or, or thereabouts.
[16:24.130 --> 16:27.910]  I'm not saying he's definitely on the, but, you know, in that range, would that be enough?
[16:28.130 --> 16:31.550]  You would cause more interference on the ground, yes, if you were closer to the ground.
[16:31.930 --> 16:32.610]  Okay, okay.
[16:32.890 --> 16:33.450]  Good to know.
[16:33.750 --> 16:34.270]  Go ahead, Rob.
[16:34.490 --> 16:40.770]  Um, going back to this guy in the truck, while, while I, uh, I must say I approve of his goals, I don't think people should be using their phones while driving either.
[16:40.930 --> 16:43.590]  I don't necessarily think people should be driving.
[16:43.750 --> 16:55.390]  But, um, I think if you're worried about being surrounded by drivers using their phones, isn't it maybe a bit more dangerous to be surrounded by drivers who are suddenly looking confusedly at their phones because they just lost their service?
[16:56.150 --> 16:58.650]  Yeah, I, I'm in favor of using these things on trains.
[16:58.870 --> 17:00.250]  I really am because I did that.
[17:00.550 --> 17:10.810]  Everybody was just yammering away on the LIRR and I turned the thing on and just, you know, it was a while of, of panic confusion where people were saying, hello, hello, nobody in particular, but then they stopped.
[17:11.130 --> 17:14.270]  Then they stopped and, and a couple of them even started reading, but most of them started sleeping.
[17:14.730 --> 17:17.370]  It was just a very nice, empowering feeling.
[17:17.510 --> 17:22.090]  Of course, it also blocks other things that are, are more quiet like, uh, texting.
[17:22.090 --> 17:24.690]  But even those, those actions can be very annoying.
[17:24.850 --> 17:30.930]  Say in a theater, for instance, where people think they're being considerate and their phones are, are illuminating an entire row because they're texting somebody.
[17:31.490 --> 17:38.990]  Uh, I think theaters, uh, have expressed a great desire to have cell phone jammers amongst other places, but, uh, it's still against the law.
[17:39.590 --> 17:40.210]  Prisons too.
[17:40.470 --> 17:41.290]  Prisons too, yes.
[17:41.430 --> 17:43.190]  You're one of those quiet car people, aren't you?
[17:43.790 --> 17:45.410]  Uh, well, I demand quiet in my car, yes.
[17:45.610 --> 17:46.050]  No, no, no.
[17:46.110 --> 17:47.950]  Like the, on the train, they have the quiet car.
[17:48.090 --> 17:48.350]  Oh, oh.
[17:48.350 --> 17:49.050]  You're one of them.
[17:49.510 --> 17:59.190]  Um, well, yeah, except I don't like being in the quiet car because I like to have a good spirited conversation with somebody, but I like for the person that I'm speaking to, to be there, not somewhere else.
[17:59.350 --> 18:00.570]  So you're not in the quiet car.
[18:00.710 --> 18:03.190]  You, I don't, I don't know what we've learned about you then.
[18:03.210 --> 18:04.190]  It's just certain rules.
[18:04.450 --> 18:07.850]  There are rules, you know, no urinating in the, in the train car itself.
[18:08.130 --> 18:13.610]  Uh, no speaking to people who aren't there, no making loud, obnoxious noises, but conversations are fine.
[18:14.230 --> 18:15.970]  I mean, cause definitely we learned something.
[18:16.190 --> 18:26.270]  There's a psychological, psychological data point we learned about people who are fans of the quiet car, but people who want, who want to enforce their own rules as it's a much smaller population.
[18:26.270 --> 18:28.130]  So there's, there's less data available.
[18:28.310 --> 18:28.530]  I feel.
[18:28.650 --> 18:29.990]  Well, keep trying to figure me out.
[18:30.450 --> 18:30.870]  Uh, okay.
[18:30.970 --> 18:31.770]  Back to the FCC.
[18:32.170 --> 18:39.490]  Uh, now they have shifted their, their position apparently, and now they're backing what the New York times refers to as fast lanes for web traffic.
[18:39.490 --> 18:45.070]  The principle that all internet content should be treated equally as it flows through cables and pipes to consumers.
[18:45.690 --> 18:50.010]  Well, that's going to be something we reminisce fondly about because it looks like it's dead.
[18:50.170 --> 19:09.670]  The FCC said today, uh, that it would propose new, uh, actually I said a week ago, Wednesday, Wednesday, they said, uh, it would propose new rules that allow companies like Disney, Google and Netflix to pay internet service providers like our friends at Comcast and Verizon for special faster lanes to send video and other content to their customers.
[19:09.850 --> 19:12.870]  Now these changes would affect what is known as net neutrality.
[19:13.030 --> 19:25.530]  The idea that no providers of legal internet content, legal internet content should face discrimination in providing offerings to consumers and that users should have equal access to see any legal content they choose.
[19:26.470 --> 19:35.630]  So, uh, basically what Tom Wheeler, who is the FCC chairman is, is saying to justify all this, uh, it said speculation, the FCC was gutting the open internet rule is flat out wrong.
[19:35.630 --> 19:41.790]  He says the new rules will provide for net neutrality along the lines of the appeals, appeals court's decision.
[19:42.350 --> 19:48.490]  Uh, but, uh, it's widely seen that the regulations are going to radically reshape how internet content is delivered to consumers.
[19:48.790 --> 19:56.510]  Um, the example they give here, a gaming company can't afford the fast track to players, uh, and customers lose interest and its product could fail.
[19:56.510 --> 20:00.670]  But if you pay extra, well, then all of a sudden you reach more people.
[20:00.930 --> 20:05.830]  I mean, the insane thing here is it's already cost money to put your content on the internet.
[20:06.170 --> 20:18.850]  Um, it's not like the, the content providers or whoever are freeloaders who are, are not paying any money and expect to be given access to, uh, to the networks of the internet service providers.
[20:18.890 --> 20:20.730]  It costs money to be on the internet.
[20:20.730 --> 20:27.450]  And it's not clear to me why anyone thinks it's sane for it to cause more money to be on some internets than others.
[20:27.690 --> 20:37.570]  Well, now is this, is this, um, basically paying for special treatment or is it penalizing people for not paying more?
[20:37.770 --> 20:39.670]  I mean, I, I realize it's the same thing in the end.
[20:39.670 --> 20:40.450]  It's the same thing.
[20:40.530 --> 20:46.650]  But the way it's being marketed seems to be that, uh, yeah, everybody's equal, but you can be more equal if you pay a little bit more.
[20:47.230 --> 20:49.550]  Basically it comes down to, Hey, nice pipeline you have there.
[20:49.550 --> 20:50.930]  Shame if something were to happen to it.
[20:51.830 --> 20:52.150]  Yeah.
[20:52.430 --> 20:52.750]  You know what?
[20:52.750 --> 20:53.870]  That sounds like Verizon to me.
[20:54.130 --> 20:55.610]  That's, that's how they seem to operate.
[20:56.270 --> 20:58.310]  Uh, Bernie, Bernie, do you think net neutrality is dead?
[20:59.430 --> 21:03.010]  Well, it certainly looks like that's the way the political winds are shifting.
[21:03.490 --> 21:11.770]  Um, like about eight years ago, the FCC, eight, 10 years ago, the FCC had an opportunity to classify internet service providers as common carriers.
[21:12.250 --> 21:17.030]  And that would have, that would have eliminated this problem and provided for net neutrality.
[21:17.030 --> 21:25.150]  But, um, sounds like money talks and that there's going to be some content providers will be more equal than others because as Mike pointed out, you can't have it both ways.
[21:25.450 --> 21:33.970]  You can't provide, uh, preference for, uh, routing traffic for some providers and still have equal routing for everybody else.
[21:34.110 --> 21:35.810]  It just, you can't have it both ways.
[21:36.730 --> 21:40.450]  Well, now, of course, this only applies in the United States.
[21:40.450 --> 21:41.770]  What about other countries?
[21:41.770 --> 21:43.770]  They obviously don't have the same rules.
[21:45.210 --> 21:53.090]  We could, you know, you could end up with some ISPs that, uh, that give really low priority to, uh, to traffic from other countries as well.
[21:53.310 --> 21:55.670]  I mean, it opens up a huge can of worms.
[21:55.850 --> 22:04.690]  And as Mike pointed out rightly, every, everybody who puts content out on the internet pays for the amount of bandwidth, uh, they're, they can be providing.
[22:04.690 --> 22:06.110]  This is already being paid for.
[22:06.270 --> 22:16.410]  So why do companies like Comcast and Verizon's FIO service, why do they get to seem that they should like be able to charge double, like charge extra?
[22:16.550 --> 22:29.050]  In fact, they're probably, some of them are probably charging the same customer twice because maybe, maybe Comcast or Verizon are the upstream providers and, um, they're also charging extra to provide the downstream to the customers.
[22:29.270 --> 22:30.630]  It's just, it's just wrong.
[22:30.630 --> 22:31.710]  Well, what happened here?
[22:31.850 --> 22:36.150]  I, I recall Obama was saying that net neutrality was something, uh, positive.
[22:36.390 --> 22:38.390]  I recall the FCC being in favor of it.
[22:38.490 --> 22:39.850]  Now net neutrality is dead.
[22:39.950 --> 22:40.590]  How did this happen?
[22:41.450 --> 22:42.470]  We got lied to.
[22:43.590 --> 22:44.430]  No, really?
[22:44.830 --> 22:45.270]  Yeah.
[22:45.610 --> 22:45.890]  Okay.
[22:46.150 --> 22:47.570]  Well, who lied to us and how?
[22:47.710 --> 22:48.970]  Because it's going to happen again, obviously.
[22:49.630 --> 22:58.750]  I, I distinctly recall Barack Obama, uh, categorically, categorically saying that we need net neutrality, that it's got to be, it's, you know, he's all in favor of it.
[22:58.750 --> 23:10.610]  But yet he chose, he just, he just chose the new FCC commissioner, Tom Wheeler, who used to work for ISPs and cell phone companies as a, as their spokesperson.
[23:11.130 --> 23:16.110]  He just hired a guy that's trying to, uh, destroy net neutrality despite his claims.
[23:16.250 --> 23:18.230]  Well, yeah, but he doesn't, he doesn't read his mind.
[23:18.390 --> 23:20.810]  He doesn't know exactly what he's going to do when he, when he puts somebody in that position.
[23:21.150 --> 23:25.050]  Don't you like, when you want to interview somebody with a job interview, like what's your view on this?
[23:25.310 --> 23:27.030]  Or, or is there supposed to be no litmus test?
[23:27.150 --> 23:31.450]  This is not a Supreme Court justice position where we're talking about.
[23:31.590 --> 23:35.090]  This is commissioner of the FCC where we want to know their policies first.
[23:35.250 --> 23:37.110]  So why don't we blame him?
[23:37.270 --> 23:38.350]  Because he's the one who did it.
[23:39.250 --> 23:40.670]  We should have been blaming Obama.
[23:40.850 --> 23:41.750]  No, no, no, no.
[23:42.070 --> 23:43.650]  Wheeler, why don't we blame him?
[23:44.670 --> 23:46.410]  He's the one who actually said this.
[23:46.410 --> 23:48.330]  So why don't we blame the FCC commissioner?
[23:49.130 --> 23:51.390]  Apparently he's just doing what the administration wants.
[23:51.510 --> 23:52.230]  That's my impression.
[23:52.810 --> 23:53.110]  Okay.
[23:53.110 --> 23:57.550]  Well, I'd like to see the evidence for that because, uh, that kind of about face really is problematic.
[23:57.810 --> 23:58.290]  Go ahead, Mike.
[23:58.370 --> 23:58.490]  Yep.
[23:58.650 --> 24:02.630]  We should, uh, just for completeness, point out that you, you slightly misspoke.
[24:02.810 --> 24:06.430]  As Monty Python would put it, the net neutrality is not quite dead yet.
[24:06.470 --> 24:15.370]  And, uh, all the usual suspects have, uh, instructions on their websites for lobbying, uh, the FCC or lobbying your Congress person to try and stop this.
[24:15.810 --> 24:18.710]  Um, I don't know if we can stop this.
[24:18.830 --> 24:22.650]  I hope we can, but, uh, we shouldn't assume we we've lost quite yet.
[24:22.730 --> 24:34.850]  No, but I mean, it's, it's being widely, widely reported that it's all but dead, but yeah, there's still chances to do things about this, but this, this shows us how quickly things can fall apart if we're not vigilant.
[24:35.250 --> 24:39.790]  And this is something that, um, we thought was in the bag and all of a sudden it's out of the bag.
[24:40.370 --> 24:45.870]  And, um, well, this will be a, this will be a topic that we discuss more on this show and certainly at the, uh, the conference in July.
[24:46.610 --> 24:55.810]  Uh, Bernie, there was something involving Verizon Wireless and a creepy tactic they have to, uh, uh, to hang on to customers or something that, you know, something about this?
[24:56.610 --> 24:57.010]  Oh, yeah.
[24:57.270 --> 25:03.270]  Um, a listener actually sent us this story, um, about a, um, I'm trying to see if I can find the story here.
[25:03.390 --> 25:12.010]  It had to do with, uh, with basically Verizon sent a notice to, uh, to Verizon Wireless, not Verizon Communications, which provides like BIOS and stuff like that.
[25:12.590 --> 25:26.550]  Um, Verizon Wireless customers, one of which I, I, I am, um, has a, uh, a creepy new, uh, advertising program that they refer to as their Enhanced Relevant Mobile Advertising Program.
[25:27.570 --> 25:29.510]  Enhanced Relevant Mobile, really?
[25:29.630 --> 25:30.190]  That's what they call it?
[25:30.550 --> 25:30.670]  Yes.
[25:30.670 --> 25:42.530]  What it means is if you, if you go to, even from your home, if you go from your home computer to visit, because if you want to manage your Verizon Wireless account from a computer, you've got to log on to myverizon.com, I think it is.
[25:43.450 --> 25:48.990]  And, uh, if you don't opt out for this thing, and it's really hard, you've got to stand on your head to opt out, I found it.
[25:49.390 --> 26:03.830]  You, uh, they will put a cookie on your, on your computer that will not only allow Verizon Wireless to track, not just their usage of, your usage of their website, but every other website you visit on the internet.
[26:04.010 --> 26:06.510]  And they would sell that information to their partners.
[26:07.050 --> 26:08.610]  Um, this is really crazy.
[26:08.950 --> 26:23.010]  So, ostensibly, you could be, uh, on your cell phone and, uh, and get an ad for, you know, some, some product or service you were looking at on your home computer could pop up on your cell phone when you were near a vendor of that product or service.
[26:23.270 --> 26:30.490]  But I spent the better part of an hour on the phone the other day trying to opt out of this enhanced, relevant mobile advertising program of Verizon Wireless.
[26:30.610 --> 26:36.610]  I had to go through two people for them to dig down and find out how I could opt out of this, because it wasn't the normal opt out of advertising.
[26:36.610 --> 26:37.550]  It was a separate thing.
[26:37.910 --> 26:39.630]  But they're really sneaky about this.
[26:39.810 --> 26:43.130]  And it, I didn't like having to stand on my head to opt out.
[26:43.310 --> 26:46.170]  Well, I'm having a little trouble understanding what, what, what's different about this.
[26:46.290 --> 26:55.030]  You're saying that you're using your, your Verizon Wireless phone and you're getting targeted advertising that you didn't agree to when you go to certain areas?
[26:55.030 --> 26:58.930]  Well, I haven't gotten any yet because they haven't rolled this out yet, but they have announced it.
[26:59.310 --> 27:18.310]  Um, according to an article in the LA Times, uh, the other day, it basically said that, uh, this is quoting, uh, what Verizon is saying, in addition to the customer information that's currently part of the program, we will soon use an anonymous unique identifier we create when you register on our websites.
[27:18.910 --> 27:29.710]  This identifier may allow an advertiser to use information they have about your visits to websites from your desktop computer to deliver marketing messages to mobile devices on our network.
[27:30.490 --> 27:31.010]  Okay.
[27:31.030 --> 27:33.990]  I don't understand the anonymous part if it's linked to your account.
[27:34.170 --> 27:34.290]  Yeah.
[27:34.430 --> 27:47.290]  I think that maybe they're not, maybe they're not telling the, the advertiser your actual identity, but they're, but Verizon is acting as the, the cutout, the middleman, just kind of like, like Google does with their Google ad, ad stuff.
[27:47.510 --> 27:50.870]  They're not actually selling your identity to the other companies.
[27:50.870 --> 27:53.550]  They're just providing, being like the, the cutout.
[27:53.690 --> 28:06.910]  But what this means is Verizon wouldn't just monitor your wireless activities, but they'd also monitor what you do on your wired or wifi connected laptop or desktop computer, even if your home computer doesn't have a Verizon connection.
[28:07.550 --> 28:16.830]  So anyhow, I opted out, but I, I really, if I just listened to this listener who, um, actually it was, uh, Joe King from the personal computer show sent this to us.
[28:17.770 --> 28:19.690]  So, uh, Joe, thank you for sending us this story.
[28:20.330 --> 28:20.410]  Yeah.
[28:20.470 --> 28:24.490]  And I guess, uh, people can call in and ask more questions on the show that follows us, the personal computer show.
[28:24.810 --> 28:27.770]  Uh, but Bernie, uh, you opted out, you said it took you a long time.
[28:27.850 --> 28:28.370]  How long did it take?
[28:28.930 --> 28:30.190]  Uh, about 45 minutes.
[28:30.310 --> 28:37.930]  Cause I spent about half that much time with someone on their front lines who wasn't familiar with it, couldn't find any information about it, kept putting me on hold.
[28:38.270 --> 28:40.490]  Then finally I said, listen, you don't know anything about this.
[28:40.570 --> 28:41.590]  I need to speak to your supervisor.
[28:41.590 --> 28:44.730]  So I spoke with her supervisor and she had to do some digging too.
[28:44.730 --> 28:45.490]  She had heard of it.
[28:45.890 --> 28:53.110]  And I told her about the LA times article, the supervisor, and she had heard, heard about this story and she had to call somebody else.
[28:53.430 --> 28:59.870]  And they figured out this other secret opt out thing where I could opt out, but it was, it took about 45 minutes to opt out.
[29:00.030 --> 29:01.650]  And I don't think most people are going to do that.
[29:01.890 --> 29:02.290]  Yeah.
[29:02.330 --> 29:03.670]  I don't think anybody is going to do that.
[29:03.790 --> 29:05.470]  That obviously has to be made a lot easier.
[29:05.650 --> 29:08.390]  And let's not pretend it's an accident that it takes this long.
[29:08.550 --> 29:17.330]  Uh, if there's a new pricing plan or something that will make a Verizon money, if you call them and ask for it, every frontline representative will know about it.
[29:17.450 --> 29:23.090]  They have the technology to like send blast emails to their, to their telephone staff.
[29:23.370 --> 29:24.930]  They don't want you to opt out.
[29:26.170 --> 29:27.950]  And so they, they don't make it easy.
[29:28.090 --> 29:28.990]  No, absolutely not.
[29:29.590 --> 29:32.670]  Speaking of, of, of, of things that don't want you to opt out.
[29:32.790 --> 29:41.130]  Um, we talked about Microsoft security essentials a few weeks ago, uh, and how that went ballistic and, and started slowing down a system I was working on.
[29:41.510 --> 29:44.390]  And so I got rid of it and I, I installed something else.
[29:44.390 --> 29:53.470]  I think, uh, Bernie, you might've even suggested it called a vast, um, as far as a program that goes and looks for, uh, malware viruses, things like that.
[29:53.870 --> 29:55.270]  And, um, you know, it's freeware.
[29:55.450 --> 29:55.810]  It's great.
[29:56.030 --> 29:58.130]  Uh, you can just download this and put it on your system.
[29:58.590 --> 30:01.810]  And I decided I was going to run a full scan, see how good this thing was.
[30:01.850 --> 30:02.570]  It was pretty good.
[30:02.730 --> 30:12.450]  It went through the entire system, but what it did, what it did that I did not care for was that it, uh, decided that certain programs, certain files were threats.
[30:12.810 --> 30:20.570]  And then it basically cast them away without any kind of checking, uh, from, from the end user.
[30:20.810 --> 30:24.870]  Uh, it wound up putting them in what it calls a vault, but it named them all kinds of random gibberish.
[30:24.910 --> 30:28.710]  So you'd have to go into that vault and figure out what each file was to rename it back.
[30:29.030 --> 30:39.910]  And what I discovered when it did this was that it was basically taking files that even mentioned viruses or files that say a file called Melissa.
[30:40.310 --> 30:42.390]  It took that and said, no, this is a virus.
[30:42.530 --> 30:43.590]  This is a, this is a nasty name.
[30:43.750 --> 30:44.690]  I'm going to delete that.
[30:45.070 --> 30:50.550]  And it was so incredibly paranoid that it deleted so many things that should not have deleted.
[30:51.070 --> 30:53.890]  Uh, fortunately I had it back up and I was able to restore it pretty easily.
[30:54.010 --> 31:09.870]  But then I set about getting rid of a vast and boy, I have never seen a program beg for its life so much as, as this particular program has said, you can, you can, you can change the setting so that things don't, the thing I said don't happen anymore so that it won't delete things.
[31:10.410 --> 31:14.210]  Basically about four or five different appeals to not deinstall the program.
[31:14.210 --> 31:15.690]  It was great to do this.
[31:15.730 --> 31:18.750]  It really was, but I'm still searching for a replacement now.
[31:19.910 --> 31:21.830]  I mean, again, this is all intentional.
[31:22.670 --> 31:23.070]  What?
[31:23.150 --> 31:26.070]  To, uh, to, uh, be overly paranoid when you're... No, no, no.
[31:26.110 --> 31:27.490]  To make it so difficult to remove.
[31:27.670 --> 31:27.950]  Yeah.
[31:28.110 --> 31:28.250]  Yeah.
[31:28.250 --> 31:28.630]  That's true.
[31:28.870 --> 31:38.530]  I mean, like some set of programmers and, and project managers and whoever else, like seriously spent time, like thinking about how to make it difficult to remove this program.
[31:38.710 --> 31:38.710]  Yeah.
[31:38.730 --> 31:39.450]  I found it funny.
[31:39.610 --> 31:50.470]  It was, it was, it was a, it was a comical experience for me, but I could see somebody really losing a lot of work because of, of this kind of, uh, of action that's taken without asking the user, is this what you want to do?
[31:50.930 --> 31:52.870]  Uh, so be aware of that.
[31:52.970 --> 31:55.110]  That's something that, uh, people really need to be careful about.
[31:55.670 --> 31:56.670]  Um, okay.
[31:56.870 --> 32:04.510]  Um, this is a story back down in Florida again of a guy who was arrested after taping an arrest on his cell phone.
[32:04.590 --> 32:05.730]  We've heard stories like this before.
[32:06.270 --> 32:13.670]  Uh, freelance disc jockey, Lazaro Estrada is facing obstruction of justice.
[32:13.970 --> 32:14.970]  Great charge, isn't it?
[32:15.150 --> 32:25.410]  Uh, he was arrested on St. Patrick's day after using his cell phone to record a video of an arrest at a, uh, uh, Cutler Bay store where he was spinning records for a promotional gig.
[32:25.910 --> 32:33.370]  Uh, basically a cop arrived at the store to arrest the owner on an outstanding misdemeanor traffic charge.
[32:33.910 --> 32:42.390]  Uh, Estrada says he began recording the episode with his iPhone only after the officer removed the owner from the store and threw the handcuffed man to the ground.
[32:42.390 --> 32:49.170]  Uh, and, um, um, for doing that, he was, uh, he was arrested and charged with obstructing, uh, obstructing justice.
[32:49.450 --> 32:57.930]  We hear about this kind of thing all the time where cops don't like to be recorded and where they point to, um, to laws that don't actually exist to, uh, to protect them.
[32:58.450 --> 33:01.210]  Uh, so it's, it continues to this day.
[33:01.370 --> 33:02.070]  It continues in New York.
[33:02.210 --> 33:02.810]  It continues in Florida.
[33:03.290 --> 33:05.270]  I imagine there's lots of stories like this.
[33:05.630 --> 33:11.330]  The video is actually online and the guy is standing behind the guy with the, with the, with the cell phone camera.
[33:11.610 --> 33:13.130]  He's actually standing behind.
[33:13.950 --> 33:20.770]  He, uh, from what you hear in the recording, he was, he's told to, to get out, you know, live along, get out of the way, you know?
[33:20.850 --> 33:33.970]  And, and so he, he apparently immediately goes into a building behind a glass door and continues to, to record video of the cop, which didn't take kindly to the, him doing that from behind a glass door.
[33:34.150 --> 33:36.790]  And then the cop went up and in the building and arrested the guy there.
[33:36.790 --> 33:43.590]  Well, the cop says I felt threatened by his presence and he felt threatened by his presence inside the store, filming him outside on the street.
[33:44.370 --> 33:45.510]  So yeah, yeah.
[33:45.510 --> 33:46.630]  Well, you have to respect that.
[33:46.810 --> 33:49.230]  Cops are very scared of people, you know?
[33:50.050 --> 33:55.990]  It's a good thing, uh, police forces elsewhere, like hashtag my NYPD, encourage people to photograph them.
[33:56.410 --> 33:57.410]  Yes, absolutely.
[33:58.130 --> 33:59.450]  Uh, how about some good news?
[33:59.590 --> 33:59.710]  All right.
[33:59.790 --> 34:00.870]  We, we, we're due for some good news.
[34:00.970 --> 34:11.850]  A Kansas judge has granted a request that we could go to formally change the name of the soldier convicted of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks from Bradley Edward Manning to Chelsea Elizabeth Manning.
[34:12.110 --> 34:17.490]  The, uh, former intelligence analyst serving a 35-year prison sentence for passing classified U.S.
[34:17.610 --> 34:21.290]  government information to the anti-secrecy website WikiLeaks.
[34:21.370 --> 34:25.950]  Manning is serving the sentence at the army prison, uh, on Fort Leavenworth in Kansas.
[34:26.410 --> 34:29.450]  So, um, what do you guys think this means for, for Manning?
[34:30.250 --> 34:35.430]  I, I think, uh, you know, congratulations to, to Chelsea Manning for getting the name change approved.
[34:35.650 --> 34:47.810]  However, the real story behind this is that, excuse me, um, the real story behind this is that, uh, there, there is further, you know, there are further steps to, uh, correcting gender dysphoria or treating gender dysphoria.
[34:48.090 --> 34:52.430]  And, um, Chelsea is not going to have access to that it appears, uh, where she is.
[34:52.550 --> 35:03.110]  Um, normally gender dysphoria, being diagnosed with it, um, it's widely recognized as a valid condition and being diagnosed with it is enough to in itself get you, um, discharged from the military.
[35:03.610 --> 35:05.990]  Um, the military themselves won't treat you for it.
[35:06.110 --> 35:09.150]  They'll just, uh, discharge you if you're a soldier and you're diagnosed with this.
[35:09.590 --> 35:16.930]  However, because Chelsea is in prison, um, she can't be discharged while she's in prison, but she can't be treated for a condition either.
[35:17.330 --> 35:30.670]  So this, uh, this opens up all sorts of cans of worms about, uh, are we, are we now, uh, are we, how do we now feel about, uh, Chelsea being denied what's widely recognized as valid treatment for an existing condition, um, while she's in prison?
[35:31.090 --> 35:35.550]  Well, my question is, will she be in a female ward now?
[35:36.530 --> 35:36.730]  No.
[35:37.290 --> 35:37.730]  She will not.
[35:37.810 --> 35:40.550]  Well then, what, this, this seems meaningless to me.
[35:40.650 --> 35:48.710]  Well, right now it, it's probably not meaningless to her, but, uh, what this results in right now on a paperwork level is, uh, she's classified as a male called Chelsea.
[35:49.270 --> 35:56.330]  Um, but, uh, and so they're not, they're not going to give her any of the, uh, any of the, um, proper facilities that they would for a female.
[35:57.090 --> 35:57.450]  Yeah.
[35:57.690 --> 35:59.450]  Well, can they be compelled to do that?
[36:00.470 --> 36:01.810]  That's a question that needs answering.
[36:01.990 --> 36:03.210]  She has some lawyers who are trying.
[36:03.330 --> 36:11.870]  I do want to, um, just, uh, maybe point out, Rob, uh, that you say it like it's a great thing that transgender people get kicked straight out of the military.
[36:12.070 --> 36:19.410]  Uh, and I'm all in favor of abolishing the military, of course, but, uh, but I don't think that the way to do it is to, you know, like start with trans people.
[36:19.630 --> 36:24.370]  Um, so, uh, their policy here is not humane really on any level.
[36:24.490 --> 36:24.590]  Right.
[36:24.650 --> 36:30.870]  I wasn't suggesting that, but, uh, I was, you know, considering how it applies to the situation at hand, it's, it's messed up no matter how you look at it.
[36:30.870 --> 36:38.490]  I'd like to entertain the possibility of, uh, eliminating the military by kicking out all non-trans people first and be an interesting military at that point.
[36:38.830 --> 36:40.070]  Maybe a saner one.
[36:40.170 --> 36:40.470]  We'll see.
[36:41.010 --> 36:42.210]  I might go for that.
[36:42.310 --> 36:42.630]  I don't know.
[36:42.810 --> 36:43.030]  All right.
[36:43.090 --> 36:45.930]  Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[36:46.110 --> 36:46.190]  Yeah.
[36:46.210 --> 36:51.050]  You may have heard rumors, but, uh, the, uh, reports of the demise of that phone line have been greatly exaggerated.
[36:51.330 --> 36:55.810]  Uh, it is, it is here and, uh, Bernie's presence on it, uh, proves that.
[36:56.210 --> 37:00.670]  Um, we have a letter that we're going to read while people line up to, uh, to use the phone.
[37:00.750 --> 37:02.150]  212-209-2900.
[37:02.590 --> 37:13.710]  Um, Morgan writes in and saying, I think it's worth saying that all the technical hoops through which area, which we talked about last week, is jumping to provide their service in order to comply with the law.
[37:13.990 --> 37:19.450]  Uh, the Supreme Court justices are correct when they look at the technology with all the little antennas and think it's overly complex.
[37:19.630 --> 37:21.970]  There is no technical reason they need all those antennas.
[37:22.050 --> 37:24.430]  The reason for all the antennas is strictly a legal one.
[37:24.690 --> 37:30.430]  The content providers are trying to argue that area's technical compliance with the law is evidence they are breaking the law.
[37:30.970 --> 37:32.970]  And that does seem to be, uh, seem to be true.
[37:34.870 --> 37:45.070]  It's far-reaching effects on any number of companies that bend over backwards to make their technology comply with the law, only to have their efforts at compliance used as evidence they are breaking the law, signed Morgan.
[37:45.370 --> 37:46.990]  And Bernie, I believe you responded to this.
[37:47.010 --> 37:48.270]  It does seem pretty crazy, doesn't it?
[37:48.810 --> 37:53.190]  Yeah, and it really puts hackers and a lot of other people to experiment with technology at a lot of risk.
[37:53.310 --> 38:14.070]  Because, uh, if you can be successfully accused of breaking a law because you are standing on your head to comply with it and are complying with it that are just found to be in violation because, um, you're doing what the law says and not what some corporation who basically paid,
[38:14.250 --> 38:17.850]  bought and paid for that law wants, that's a problem.
[38:18.290 --> 38:21.630]  Because it, it, it, it makes nothing safe.
[38:22.310 --> 38:36.730]  So, I'm concerned about how this decision goes, not just for Aereo, but for any company or individual that likes to experiment with, uh, with technology, especially communications technology, because it's a slippery slope when corporations can say, well,
[38:36.890 --> 38:44.110]  the law doesn't say this exactly, but it's close enough that we want this court to decide that you violated it and then you owe us a lot of money.
[38:44.230 --> 38:52.310]  Aereo being the company that is providing over-the-air free television service to subscribers who can't pick up the service themselves in cities.
[38:52.310 --> 38:56.510]  And they do this by having all kinds of antennas, one antenna for each, uh, subscriber.
[38:56.930 --> 38:58.550]  I'd like to see their antenna farm.
[38:58.690 --> 39:00.790]  It sounds like a fascinating, uh, uh, field trip.
[39:00.970 --> 39:01.830]  There are pictures.
[39:02.070 --> 39:03.750]  I mean, it's always more fun to see things in person.
[39:03.930 --> 39:04.090]  Absolutely.
[39:04.430 --> 39:05.350]  But there are pictures on the internet.
[39:05.750 --> 39:06.350]  All right.
[39:06.590 --> 39:09.470]  Um, we mentioned, and again, our phone number 212-209-2900.
[39:09.610 --> 39:10.650]  We'll get to these calls in just a moment.
[39:10.770 --> 39:20.330]  But, um, we mentioned that, uh, we are, um, still soliciting, uh, talk submissions for Hope X taking place July 18, 19, and 20 here in New York City.
[39:20.870 --> 39:24.270]  And, um, well, today is, uh, the deadline, the last day of April.
[39:24.550 --> 39:31.110]  Uh, we're going to convene later and maybe, maybe, uh, give a little bit of a grace period for those people who are just realizing this now.
[39:31.230 --> 39:38.490]  But, uh, if you really want your talk to be considered, I, I strongly suggest submitting it now or writing it now.
[39:38.750 --> 39:39.890]  Stop listening to the radio.
[39:40.310 --> 39:51.250]  Go write down your, your thoughts and, uh, and ideas, a couple of paragraphs on what you wish to speak about, uh, uh, a bio as to who you or your fellow panelists are.
[39:51.470 --> 40:04.770]  Remember, we, we like to talk about all kinds of controversial things, like what we're talking about here tonight, technical things, uh, all sorts of issues involving the hacker world and, and, uh, new technology, uh, freedom of speech, things like that.
[40:04.930 --> 40:12.570]  I mean, I should just maybe clarify in case any of our listeners are particularly dense that we would really prefer you didn't rush your submission.
[40:12.770 --> 40:18.890]  Uh, we, we will see a poorly written submission and think it will be a poorly organized talk.
[40:19.250 --> 40:21.370]  So take the time to write it.
[40:21.770 --> 40:27.530]  Uh, the deadline is tonight, but if, if you're going to be two hours late because it's a much better proposal, I think that's okay.
[40:27.730 --> 40:27.810]  Yeah.
[40:27.830 --> 40:30.250]  We're not really, uh, overly strict about this.
[40:30.350 --> 40:36.850]  We, we're as strict as we have to be, and we've gotten so many really, really good submissions and we're looking forward to, uh, to publicizing them.
[40:36.970 --> 40:40.990]  But, uh, we know there are more people out there because we've heard from them people who have said, yeah, I'm going to submit a talk.
[40:41.110 --> 40:45.390]  Well, we're saying submit your damn talk now because we're running out of time.
[40:45.470 --> 40:46.370]  We have to print a program.
[40:46.510 --> 40:47.850]  We have to organize a schedule.
[40:48.170 --> 40:50.570]  We have over a hundred talks per conference.
[40:50.890 --> 40:53.670]  Uh, that's, there's a lot of room, a lot of room for all kinds of diversity.
[40:53.970 --> 40:57.030]  Uh, but, uh, that, that room is filling up pretty quickly.
[40:57.030 --> 40:59.310]  Uh, go to x.hope.net.
[40:59.610 --> 41:01.130]  That's the Hope X website.
[41:01.430 --> 41:05.050]  And, uh, you can write to speakers at hope.net with your submission.
[41:05.250 --> 41:06.590]  That's the best way to, uh, to get in.
[41:06.630 --> 41:06.910]  Yes, Rob.
[41:06.910 --> 41:09.550]  Um, I don't think our listeners are dense, Mike.
[41:09.710 --> 41:10.970]  I don't know why you're calling them dense.
[41:11.110 --> 41:13.970]  I think he was theorizing that perhaps there could be a dense listener out there.
[41:14.090 --> 41:17.530]  I don't think that's possible because just to tune in a radio takes some skill.
[41:17.690 --> 41:35.130]  I was just to, in case you're dense, Rob, I, I was just, you know, saying, I think that no one, that you are not dense and our audience in general is not dense, but just in case, uh, we have to make things a little bit more explicit and hopefully I'm wasting everyone's time right now because no one needs it.
[41:35.330 --> 41:35.810]  But yeah.
[41:36.050 --> 41:38.430]  Well, you're wasting the time of this caller who's calling in.
[41:38.490 --> 41:41.110]  So let's go to that person right now and say, good evening.
[41:41.270 --> 41:42.430]  You're on off the hook.
[41:43.090 --> 41:43.530]  Okay.
[41:43.970 --> 41:56.330]  Um, did you know that the antenna on, uh, Empire State Building jams automobile, uh, alarms, and that if you park on 33rd street or 34th street, you shut the, shut the engine.
[41:56.710 --> 41:59.170]  Then when you go to start the car, it won't start.
[41:59.590 --> 42:05.050]  And the only way to start it is to push it around to one of the avenues to block the signal.
[42:05.250 --> 42:05.450]  Yeah.
[42:05.530 --> 42:06.870]  I've heard rumors about this.
[42:07.050 --> 42:08.490]  Uh, tell us exactly what happens.
[42:08.910 --> 42:09.350]  Okay.
[42:09.370 --> 42:18.250]  I worked on 34th and Madison for 15 years on the second shift where people were, you know, it's, you get more cars can park on 34th street in the day.
[42:18.590 --> 42:19.930]  You can't park there at all.
[42:20.090 --> 42:30.490]  So what happens is if you shut the car and it's a newer vehicle where it has a car alarm, what happens is the antenna, the signal, some signal from the antenna jams that alarm.
[42:30.850 --> 42:34.390]  So when you go out back to start your car again, it won't start.
[42:34.550 --> 42:36.490]  And a lot of people don't know what to do.
[42:36.850 --> 42:39.830]  So I used to tell them, push the car around the corner.
[42:40.250 --> 42:45.730]  Now I had a boss who would charge him 10, want to charge him $10 to tell him how to start the car.
[42:45.890 --> 42:46.650]  Oh, this is great.
[42:47.050 --> 42:47.810]  I wouldn't do that.
[42:48.110 --> 42:52.050]  I'd tell him just push it around on the avenue and you can start your car again.
[42:52.150 --> 42:58.690]  So you're saying that in midtown Manhattan, the right around 34th street, we could probably witness a whole bunch of people having trouble starting their cars.
[42:59.150 --> 42:59.710]  That's right.
[42:59.850 --> 43:03.010]  Go there, go there in the evening, say after seven o'clock.
[43:03.790 --> 43:12.330]  And, um, I mean, I haven't worked there in, in, um, I guess, 13 years since 2014 years, but it was happening then.
[43:12.490 --> 43:13.990]  And it happened constantly.
[43:14.390 --> 43:18.530]  Ordinarily, I would dismiss such a claim, but I did hear something about this in the past.
[43:18.670 --> 43:22.670]  Bernie, I want to ask you, is there any technical reasons for like this would be happening?
[43:22.670 --> 43:23.430]  Yeah.
[43:23.730 --> 43:31.890]  Um, from what I've read, it is, uh, there's not just a WBA, but there's a lot of other, uh, broadcasters, uh, who broadcast from these antennas on top of the Empire State Building.
[43:32.430 --> 43:35.130]  And I think it's the more powerful TV transmitters.
[43:35.390 --> 43:48.690]  The signals can combine to create what's called, uh, IMD, uh, intermodulation distortion, where, where two or more signals can combine and create an intermod signal that is a product of the other signals.
[43:48.690 --> 43:50.270]  You sound like you're on Star Trek.
[43:50.430 --> 43:50.630]  Really?
[43:51.010 --> 43:51.630]  Yeah, really.
[43:51.770 --> 43:56.230]  And what happens is, and you get these unauthorized frequencies that are broadcast, but they're not directly.
[43:56.230 --> 43:58.790]  They're just like a product of other signals mixing together.
[43:59.070 --> 44:04.530]  And that can interfere with the car alarms, which I think typically use a frequency around 315 megahertz.
[44:05.390 --> 44:19.430]  Um, if it were me, I had one of these news cards, I'd try to figure out some way to, like, disconnect the alarm antenna, um, to prevent, be picking up these, uh, these, these, these distortion things from the transmitter.
[44:19.550 --> 44:20.410]  But it's a, it's a problem.
[44:20.550 --> 44:24.770]  I don't know if it's a problem now, but like the guy said, it was a problem at one time, and it may still be a problem.
[44:25.070 --> 44:28.570]  Well, the great thing about this is that, uh, sir, where does this take place?
[44:28.830 --> 44:30.130]  34th Street, around where?
[44:30.530 --> 44:33.750]  Well, I worked on 34th and Madison for about 15 years.
[44:33.750 --> 44:39.790]  And the building diagonally across from what used to be the Bergdorf Goodman, um, uh, uh, store.
[44:40.430 --> 44:45.070]  And, uh, that's where I saw it happening a lot, right on 34th Street, right there.
[44:45.230 --> 44:51.270]  I worked on the south side of the, of the street, but, uh, I've seen it happen on the north side too.
[44:51.450 --> 44:55.190]  So if you were on the east-west streets, that's when you'd see it.
[44:55.410 --> 44:57.850]  If you're on the avenues, it wouldn't bother you.
[44:58.030 --> 45:04.270]  So, folks, uh, the HOPE Conference takes place on 33rd Street and 7th Avenue within walking distance of this.
[45:04.430 --> 45:10.750]  It's a great little drawn for you to take during the conference and witness all kinds of technological chaos and maybe even help.
[45:11.130 --> 45:11.970]  There you go.
[45:12.070 --> 45:15.330]  And can I mention one other thing about the BAI itself?
[45:15.830 --> 45:25.250]  Um, besides your show and the show after it, um, the youngest listeners, I'm 62 and I'm one of the youngest listeners to any of the other shows.
[45:25.510 --> 45:34.930]  So I would keep that in mind, you know, when you're talking about your, uh, fundraising and whatnot, because, uh, that's another story, but I thought I'd mention it.
[45:35.070 --> 45:35.130]  Okay.
[45:35.230 --> 45:36.110]  Thanks so much for your call.
[45:36.390 --> 45:37.650]  Very interesting, uh, topic there.
[45:37.890 --> 45:42.610]  But I, I happen to know that we do have some listeners way down in their fifties that listen to us as well.
[45:43.170 --> 45:53.950]  Uh, and below that, well, I guess we have to reintroduce the concept of radio, but there are lots of listeners to BAI, all kinds of listeners of all different ages and, uh, walks of life and things like that.
[45:54.070 --> 45:56.670]  But, uh, I like to think we try and reach them all.
[45:56.990 --> 45:58.330]  We certainly want to hear different perspectives.
[45:58.710 --> 46:01.510]  212-209-2900.
[46:02.190 --> 46:12.130]  Uh, I'm not sure if, um, if the younger generation uses phones anymore, because right now the phone lines aren't working when they're working, but they're empty because I think they all got transferred away someplace.
[46:12.410 --> 46:12.830]  There's one.
[46:13.030 --> 46:13.170]  Okay.
[46:13.750 --> 46:15.650]  212-209-2900.
[46:15.890 --> 46:16.810]  Let's fill up those phone lines.
[46:16.870 --> 46:17.170]  Good evening.
[46:17.310 --> 46:18.290]  You're on off the hook.
[46:20.230 --> 46:20.870]  Speak up.
[46:21.990 --> 46:22.670]  Yes, go ahead.
[46:22.730 --> 46:23.250]  You're on the air.
[46:23.850 --> 46:24.590]  Oh, Hey, how's it going?
[46:24.870 --> 46:25.750]  Uh, yeah, just called in.
[46:25.890 --> 46:30.030]  Uh, I heard you guys are talking about, uh, we don't have a younger to listen in.
[46:30.290 --> 46:32.170]  Uh, just wanted to say I'm 25.
[46:32.370 --> 46:34.130]  I've been listening for about three years.
[46:34.290 --> 46:34.590]  Okay.
[46:35.390 --> 46:35.610]  Yeah.
[46:35.710 --> 46:36.910]  So, uh, that's pretty much it.
[46:36.910 --> 46:39.770]  Uh, I listen to a couple of other shows and other news.
[46:40.130 --> 46:40.570]  Uh-huh.
[46:41.310 --> 46:42.190]  Well, there are a couple of other shows.
[46:42.190 --> 46:46.170]  We have some, we have some really, really great shows, um, that I listen to a lot.
[46:46.810 --> 46:48.630]  Uh, Collective Unity is a show I listen to.
[46:48.910 --> 46:54.630]  And of course, uh, uh, programs over the, over the weekend, uh, all kinds of late night shows as well.
[46:55.010 --> 47:00.810]  Um, we, we have all kinds of things that'll keep you tuned to the radio for longer periods than, than you would like actually.
[47:01.670 --> 47:02.150]  Yeah, definitely.
[47:02.430 --> 47:03.870]  Um, look, cause I listen to a lot of the shows.
[47:03.990 --> 47:06.590]  I listen to, uh, Uncle Sidney.
[47:07.610 --> 47:08.430]  Uncle Sidney.
[47:08.710 --> 47:09.430]  There's a few other ones.
[47:09.570 --> 47:10.250]  I say Collective Unity.
[47:10.310 --> 47:10.970]  I meant Creative Unity.
[47:11.470 --> 47:11.790]  Wow.
[47:11.850 --> 47:12.590]  I can't even get the name right.
[47:12.710 --> 47:13.030]  Yeah.
[47:13.130 --> 47:14.290]  That one's good too on Fridays.
[47:14.690 --> 47:20.770]  And then there's, uh, shoot, uh, the one on Sundays with, uh, the old time radio.
[47:20.950 --> 47:21.570]  Old time radio.
[47:21.690 --> 47:22.110]  That's what it's called.
[47:22.170 --> 47:24.130]  Old time radio with Max, who's right outside in the hallway.
[47:24.270 --> 47:24.870]  That was a really good show.
[47:25.050 --> 47:26.090]  And I'm only 25.
[47:26.470 --> 47:26.730]  Uh-huh.
[47:26.810 --> 47:27.330]  Well, that's good.
[47:27.390 --> 47:31.330]  It shows that you're, you're, you're reaching out and listening to diverse things.
[47:31.430 --> 47:32.730]  That's what this radio station is all about.
[47:33.290 --> 47:33.710]  Yeah, definitely.
[47:33.830 --> 47:35.070]  I definitely met Hugh Hamilton.
[47:35.370 --> 47:38.650]  Uh, yeah, well, you know, uh, anybody can come on the air.
[47:38.750 --> 47:39.610]  Anyone can come back.
[47:39.890 --> 47:42.270]  Uh, we just don't have paid people on the air right now.
[47:42.310 --> 47:49.590]  So, uh, we've never gotten paid here on this radio show and I don't think we ever will, which is probably a good but listen, thanks for your call.
[47:49.970 --> 47:53.010]  And, uh, all right, take care.
[47:53.250 --> 47:55.610]  I guess we're going to ask people to state their ages now when they call in.
[47:56.110 --> 47:56.650]  Good evening.
[47:56.770 --> 47:57.590]  You're on off the hook.
[47:58.670 --> 47:59.110]  Hi there.
[47:59.190 --> 47:59.750]  How are you doing?
[47:59.930 --> 48:00.130]  Okay.
[48:00.170 --> 48:00.530]  How are you?
[48:01.230 --> 48:01.450]  Yeah.
[48:01.630 --> 48:02.450]  My name is Shaka.
[48:02.750 --> 48:03.810]  I'm calling from Harlem.
[48:04.350 --> 48:05.490]  Well, we're in Harlem too.
[48:05.570 --> 48:06.110]  How about that?
[48:07.110 --> 48:07.390]  Yep.
[48:08.590 --> 48:09.830]  Um, it was good.
[48:09.930 --> 48:12.170]  I just got up before the present, um, caller.
[48:12.710 --> 48:21.990]  And he was talking about your arms being shoved on the vehicle being made in operative around 34th Street, especially at, or along the sides of the Empire State Building.
[48:22.830 --> 48:27.390]  And, um, uh, tell you what, my daughter is now 30 years old.
[48:27.810 --> 48:31.730]  And it happened to her when I brought up from Florida when she was 13 years old.
[48:31.830 --> 48:32.870]  That was a long time ago.
[48:33.050 --> 48:38.290]  So your, your daughter had problems starting her car at 34th Street when she was, did you say 15 years old?
[48:38.410 --> 48:40.410]  Oh, you had problems.
[48:40.550 --> 48:40.710]  Okay.
[48:40.710 --> 48:46.030]  My daughter was from Florida when she was, I remember, because that's the first place she wanted to go is the Empire State Building.
[48:46.270 --> 48:46.650]  Uh-huh.
[48:46.770 --> 48:50.010]  And we parked there around the corner and couldn't move the car.
[48:50.190 --> 48:53.470]  And I'll bet you thought you were lucky finding a parking space so close.
[48:53.870 --> 48:54.810]  Yeah, I don't know.
[48:54.890 --> 48:55.950]  I got unlucky, really.
[48:56.290 --> 48:57.050]  You sure did.
[48:57.490 --> 49:05.990]  When a cab driver, uh, passed by, he saw me under the hood and he, he stopped by and he said, a guy's in Africa, as a matter of fact.
[49:06.370 --> 49:12.630]  And he said, listen, the problem is the radio waves from the, um, from the tower on top of the Empire State Building.
[49:13.090 --> 49:21.070]  If you and your wife could kiss the car around the corner, give you a message down the way, uh, you can restart it from in the middle of the block.
[49:21.410 --> 49:25.570]  Yeah, but you're not going to get a message as long as you travel, um, to the streets.
[49:26.350 --> 49:26.710]  Interesting.
[49:26.890 --> 49:27.510]  And that is what happened.
[49:28.150 --> 49:28.350]  Wow.
[49:28.430 --> 49:30.670]  I love 100, 150 yards, you know, it was okay.
[49:30.810 --> 49:33.130]  Like I said, this story, this story has legs.
[49:33.170 --> 49:42.450]  I've heard it before and I'm sure it affects a lot of people, but, and we're probably the only, uh, only show talking about that, uh, actually reaching that particular subject.
[49:42.690 --> 49:43.450]  Thanks for your call, sir.
[49:44.170 --> 49:44.430]  Okay.
[49:44.790 --> 49:45.510]  Thanks for listening.
[49:46.810 --> 49:48.970]  That, I believe, was not a landline, right?
[49:49.690 --> 49:51.030]  Yeah, it may not have been one.
[49:51.170 --> 49:52.570]  Did that sound like a landline to you, Bernie?
[49:53.730 --> 49:56.990]  No, it was a really, maybe it was a landline with a really bad telephone.
[49:57.350 --> 50:03.630]  All right, I understood what he was saying for the most part, but it's, uh, this is what I mean when I say that phone calls of the past used to be a lot clearer.
[50:04.030 --> 50:04.510]  Oh, yeah.
[50:04.630 --> 50:05.930]  And hopefully they will be in the future.
[50:06.050 --> 50:06.730]  Let's take another phone call.
[50:06.730 --> 50:07.050]  Good evening.
[50:07.230 --> 50:08.050]  You're on off the hook.
[50:09.330 --> 50:09.770]  Hello.
[50:10.070 --> 50:10.290]  Hi.
[50:10.410 --> 50:10.950]  What's on your mind?
[50:12.970 --> 50:13.410]  Howdy.
[50:13.410 --> 50:14.030]  Excuse me?
[50:14.450 --> 50:14.890]  Yes.
[50:15.010 --> 50:15.690]  Am I on the air?
[50:15.870 --> 50:16.510]  You're on the air right now.
[50:16.730 --> 50:16.930]  Okay.
[50:17.250 --> 50:26.810]  Um, two items that I wanted to ask about and then other things that I've seen, uh, in November or December of 2013, I saw something on YouTube.
[50:27.190 --> 50:37.590]  I believe it was YouTube, uh, anonymous claiming credit for having saved the election by planting antivirus, virus software in, in voting machines.
[50:37.710 --> 50:38.970]  I don't know if anybody knows about that.
[50:39.050 --> 50:40.070]  Well, it sounds like something they do.
[50:40.550 --> 50:50.350]  And the other question I had was, uh, recently, and too bad I went to it too slowly because by the time I tried to call in, then the next day I heard it, it was fixed and, and the website was fixed.
[50:50.430 --> 50:52.890]  But your website, the BAI website was owned, man.
[50:53.130 --> 50:56.050]  Well, don't say your website pointing to us and off the hook.
[50:56.090 --> 50:56.930]  It wasn't our website.
[50:57.070 --> 50:58.890]  If it was our website, I don't think that would have happened.
[50:59.030 --> 51:01.070]  But yeah, something bad did happen to it.
[51:01.210 --> 51:17.550]  It involved, uh, I don't know, default programs or fresh to some kind of, uh, uh, some kind of, uh, uh, um, downloader app or malware, adware, who knows, but, uh, yeah, this kind of thing happens more often than, than you can shake a stick ad, whatever that means.
[51:18.030 --> 51:22.950]  Uh, and, uh, yeah, it's, um, it's a real problem and, uh, I don't know what the solution is.
[51:23.030 --> 51:23.830]  I'm not an expert on this.
[51:23.930 --> 51:25.830]  I'm sure the personal computer people have all kinds of theories.
[51:26.050 --> 51:28.350]  Mike, you had something on the anonymous, uh, saving the world.
[51:28.570 --> 51:30.210]  Well, it sounds like something they'd claim to do.
[51:30.650 --> 51:31.910]  Didn't I say exactly that?
[51:32.070 --> 51:34.170]  You said it sounds like something they would do.
[51:34.310 --> 51:35.270]  Well, because they would, yeah.
[51:35.490 --> 51:37.090]  They would claim to do it if they did it.
[51:37.210 --> 51:37.610]  Yes, Rob.
[51:37.950 --> 51:42.550]  The thing about anonymous is anybody can, uh, can claim to speak for them and claim to have done anything.
[51:42.670 --> 51:46.710]  And there's no, uh, there's no way to tell, um, anything about it really.
[51:46.870 --> 51:47.990]  But, uh... That's your claim.
[51:48.150 --> 51:49.070]  That's my claim, yes.
[51:49.070 --> 51:49.170]  All right.
[51:49.350 --> 52:00.410]  But I, my claim is also that, uh, if there's ever trouble with the WBAI website and, uh, you want to get to the new episodes of this particular show, you can always go to our website, which is 2600.com slash off the hook.
[52:00.530 --> 52:04.390]  What bugged me about that whole website incident was that it was being blamed on hackers.
[52:04.470 --> 52:06.750]  And I'm not even sure that a person was behind it.
[52:06.810 --> 52:10.970]  It could have just been a program, right, that redirected people to malware.
[52:11.450 --> 52:11.770]  I'm sorry?
[52:11.930 --> 52:13.250]  I looked at the source of the page.
[52:13.350 --> 52:15.690]  It was meta refresh, and it was refreshing.
[52:16.110 --> 52:21.390]  And it was, interestingly enough, it depended on your browser not using the meta refresh in the head.
[52:21.390 --> 52:26.830]  It was buried in the table of lists of, you know, download this show, that show, this show, that show.
[52:27.090 --> 52:29.830]  And every one of them was pointing to this ad fly thing.
[52:29.950 --> 52:30.950]  There were like 100 entries.
[52:31.410 --> 52:31.730]  Wow.
[52:32.010 --> 52:32.290]  It was in the database.
[52:32.290 --> 52:33.750]  Or whatever, however long the list was.
[52:34.690 --> 52:36.010]  Can I mention a few things?
[52:36.170 --> 52:38.010]  Did I respond to things that you folks said?
[52:38.110 --> 52:39.470]  Well, do that in one second.
[52:39.610 --> 52:41.750]  I want Rob to respond to one point here.
[52:41.850 --> 52:46.710]  Yeah, where the robots come in is it might not have been somebody attacking WBAI specifically on purpose.
[52:46.710 --> 52:49.890]  It might have just been a robot scanning the Internet for sites with a particular vulnerability.
[52:49.890 --> 52:52.090]  And when it finds one exploiting it.
[52:52.510 --> 52:53.050]  It's amazing.
[52:53.170 --> 53:02.810]  You can set up a free BSD box or a Linux box or something and just put it on your phone line or just put it on your cable connection.
[53:03.350 --> 53:06.630]  Within a couple of hours, somebody from China will try hacking into it.
[53:06.690 --> 53:07.510]  I've seen this happen.
[53:07.770 --> 53:08.510]  It's amazing.
[53:08.930 --> 53:11.670]  These aren't people sitting down saying, I'm going to hack this person.
[53:11.790 --> 53:13.370]  These are automated processes.
[53:13.890 --> 53:15.570]  And they're everywhere.
[53:15.890 --> 53:18.510]  I mean, it's not, though, as the people say, turtles all the way down.
[53:18.510 --> 53:23.550]  And at some point, there's a person directing the network of computers and somehow hoping to gain from it.
[53:23.630 --> 53:26.350]  Yeah, we call him the director, but no one's talked to him in years.
[53:26.710 --> 53:29.450]  But it's not this big, nefarious plot.
[53:29.450 --> 53:40.890]  It's just a bunch of evil programs out there that are, yeah, written by people and sent out and meant to spread adware and get people to click on things they shouldn't click on.
[53:41.430 --> 53:46.310]  But it's not your 15-year-old kid trying to launch nuclear missiles like war games or something like that.
[53:46.390 --> 53:47.390]  It's very different.
[53:47.650 --> 53:48.290]  Okay, Colin, go ahead.
[53:48.670 --> 53:48.930]  Okay.
[53:49.650 --> 53:50.890]  Let me see.
[53:51.090 --> 53:56.930]  For your antivirus thing, why not always do stuff only reporting rather than letting it do any work?
[53:58.970 --> 54:05.470]  For emergency tones, something, it was from World War II, they announced on BBC to announce D-Day.
[54:06.030 --> 54:09.490]  Something, something, Felicitous Langer, if I remember correctly.
[54:10.070 --> 54:11.350]  So technically, that's illegal.
[54:11.590 --> 54:12.870]  I have no idea what you're talking about.
[54:12.990 --> 54:13.250]  What?
[54:13.650 --> 54:18.050]  You remember you're talking about the emergency broadcast system tones?
[54:18.250 --> 54:18.490]  Yes.
[54:18.490 --> 54:18.970]  Okay.
[54:19.810 --> 54:23.530]  Here's something that would be illegal noises that were emergency broadcast tones.
[54:24.130 --> 54:29.850]  Specifically the words, I forget what the whole sentence was, something, something, something, Felicitous, with a Felicitous Langer.
[54:30.750 --> 54:31.230]  But...
[54:31.230 --> 54:32.070]  A melodious Langer.
[54:32.190 --> 54:33.010]  What does that mean?
[54:33.310 --> 54:43.870]  It was the BBC announcement to their spies and agents, or excuse me, terrorists, in France to start shooting up the Germans when D-Day was happening.
[54:43.910 --> 54:46.990]  Okay, so what would happen if that word came up in a sentence?
[54:46.990 --> 54:49.190]  Well, I just used it right now.
[54:49.370 --> 54:52.290]  So, are people being massacred in a country now because of that?
[54:52.490 --> 54:58.010]  In France, somewhere in France, some guys just got up out of the graves because they're all dead by now.
[54:58.650 --> 55:00.390]  Unless there's time travel involved.
[55:00.510 --> 55:03.230]  I mean, Bernie invoked Star Trek before, so it's entirely possible.
[55:03.470 --> 55:04.370]  Sounds good to me.
[55:04.530 --> 55:05.290]  Anything else, sir?
[55:05.430 --> 55:15.790]  For cell phone jamming in something like a recording studio, I want to try this to see if it's as efficient as the textbook says a Saturday cage should be.
[55:15.790 --> 55:24.970]  But I thought to put Windows screen under the paint or wallpaper all the way around on all six sides of a recording studio.
[55:24.970 --> 55:27.630]  And that way, people who accidentally bring their cell phones in, they won't operate.
[55:28.390 --> 55:30.630]  Okay, that kind of sounds interesting.
[55:30.830 --> 55:37.690]  Just as a social question, if a conversation is okay on the train, why is a cell phone not okay?
[55:37.910 --> 55:39.330]  It's just one-sided conversation.
[55:39.610 --> 55:42.730]  Yeah, well, you know, people don't like it when I talk to myself either.
[55:42.730 --> 55:44.870]  And people tend to talk louder on cell phones.
[55:45.110 --> 55:46.930]  Okay, I accept that.
[55:47.190 --> 55:52.330]  And it's too bad about the net neutrality thing, because I feel it's a larger plan for censorship.
[55:52.330 --> 55:53.810]  It's based on the content.
[55:54.010 --> 55:54.310]  Mm-hmm.
[55:54.570 --> 56:01.370]  You know, I mean, unfortunately, the average slob, once they're getting their Netflix, they're not going to join us to try and solve it.
[56:01.510 --> 56:02.550]  It's about control.
[56:02.550 --> 56:05.630]  And of course, censorship is one of the relatives of control.
[56:05.930 --> 56:07.090]  And yeah, this will continue.
[56:07.930 --> 56:09.030]  We should never give up, though.
[56:09.370 --> 56:10.570]  And that's, I think, what we take out of this.
[56:10.730 --> 56:11.430]  Thanks so much for your call.
[56:11.510 --> 56:12.870]  We're going to try and squeeze in one more.
[56:13.270 --> 56:13.930]  Good evening.
[56:13.970 --> 56:15.010]  You're on Off the Hook.
[56:16.290 --> 56:16.630]  Yeah.
[56:17.250 --> 56:17.730]  Go ahead.
[56:17.810 --> 56:18.170]  Speak up.
[56:18.730 --> 56:19.910]  Oh, you got me?
[56:20.070 --> 56:21.350]  Yeah, but you don't have much time.
[56:22.010 --> 56:22.150]  Okay.
[56:22.510 --> 56:23.250]  Quick question.
[56:23.250 --> 56:43.130]  Given that we live in the free world, and they honor and respect freedom of speech, how often do you think the boys in the government go after VAI, you guys, anybody?
[56:43.830 --> 56:47.990]  Well, I can tell you that they do go after all sorts of people.
[56:47.990 --> 56:57.350]  We usually go after the most vulnerable first, because if you go after unpopular people, people who are offensive, perhaps, you have a much better chance of winning.
[56:57.990 --> 57:01.670]  If you go after a radio station like VAI, we can get a lot of negative publicity.
[57:01.890 --> 57:05.670]  So maybe that's why you don't see that kind of attack.
[57:05.930 --> 57:10.990]  And also, if you don't draw attention to something controversial, you might actually make it irrelevant.
[57:10.990 --> 57:12.130]  Maybe nobody cares.
[57:12.410 --> 57:21.270]  And by you're not attacking it, you basically are betting that it's going to go away on its own and that the American people won't care.
[57:21.530 --> 57:25.670]  So I think that might be some of the things that are going on right now.
[57:26.130 --> 57:35.010]  Partly the question is, when you have trouble broadcasting, the website gets shut down, that kind of thing.
[57:35.990 --> 57:38.490]  Well, are you talking about the website problems we had?
[57:38.690 --> 57:39.670]  It could be related?
[57:39.670 --> 57:45.090]  Just as a general question, VAI often has problems.
[57:45.290 --> 57:53.670]  And I'm wondering if the boys in blue or red or whatever the hell color they are are messing with VAI.
[57:54.070 --> 57:55.690]  I don't know if it's that.
[57:55.690 --> 58:03.530]  It could be, but it could also be our own battles amongst ourselves doing that or just not paying attention to the things that are important.
[58:03.870 --> 58:04.970]  Anyway, listen, we're out of time.
[58:05.050 --> 58:07.030]  Bernie, did you find the address for Jim?
[58:07.030 --> 58:10.710]  I wasn't able to get an answer at Aunt Shirley's house.
[58:10.870 --> 58:15.590]  Okay, so this mission has failed, but we will try again next week.
[58:15.730 --> 58:16.890]  We will have the answer next week.
[58:17.150 --> 58:18.790]  Until then, it's Emmanuel for Off the Hook.
[58:19.490 --> 58:21.650]  Go to your local 2600 meeting this Friday.
[58:21.990 --> 58:23.330]  2600.com slash meetings.
[58:23.590 --> 58:25.230]  And submit your talk.
[58:25.230 --> 58:28.450]  Mom and Dad are going out for the evening.
[58:28.490 --> 58:29.930]  Speakers at Hope.net.
[58:30.050 --> 58:32.710]  Look inside the house all alone.
[58:33.430 --> 58:38.850]  That's when you decide it might be fun to harass someone.
[58:39.270 --> 58:43.110]  Dial a random number up on your telephone.
[58:45.820 --> 58:50.460]  You ask if their refrigerator is running.
[58:50.460 --> 58:54.800]  Then you tell them they should go out and catch it.
[58:54.800 --> 59:00.880]  Buddy, if they ever figured out where you were calling them from.
[59:01.080 --> 59:05.280]  They'd come and bust your head right in with a ratchet.
[59:05.560 --> 59:06.840]  Listen to me.
[59:07.540 --> 59:11.180]  Don't go making phony calls.
[59:11.540 --> 59:16.340]  Please stick to the seven-digit numbers you're used to.
[59:16.340 --> 59:22.120]  I know that you think it's funny driving folks right up the wall.
[59:22.340 --> 59:25.520]  But it's really getting old fast.
[59:29.370 --> 59:33.370]  Little Melvin has a natural obsession.
[59:33.510 --> 59:37.210]  Asking for Prince Albert in a can.
[59:40.070 --> 59:43.910]  He gets a kick each time he makes a collect.
[59:43.910 --> 59:48.550]  Calls to some guy he doesn't know who lives in Japan.
[59:50.610 --> 59:55.190]  He's calling strangers up at three in the morning.
[59:55.550 --> 59:58.790]  Gives them pizza pie delivery at four.
[01:00:01.270 --> 01:00:05.710]  He won't be laughing when they're tracing his line.
[01:00:06.030 --> 01:00:09.330]  One day the phone police will be there.
[01:00:31.890 --> 01:00:33.790]  Got questions about your computer?
[01:00:34.090 --> 01:00:34.710]  Mm-hmm.
[01:00:34.950 --> 01:00:36.570]  Want to know about the latest electronics?
[01:00:36.910 --> 01:00:37.270]  Yeah.
[01:00:37.270 --> 01:00:39.510]  Are you confused by high-definition TV?
[01:00:39.850 --> 01:00:40.310]  A little.
[01:00:40.490 --> 01:00:43.530]  Well, tune into WBAI every Wednesday at 8 p.m.
[01:00:43.650 --> 01:00:45.310]  for the Personal Computer Show.
[01:00:45.550 --> 01:00:45.790]  Yeah?
[01:00:46.010 --> 01:00:50.430]  Yeah, that's every Wednesday on WBAI 99.5 FM.
[01:00:50.670 --> 01:00:50.950]  Oh.
[01:00:51.190 --> 01:00:52.330]  So why don't you tell a friend?
[01:00:52.510 --> 01:00:52.970]  Oh, okay.
[01:00:53.210 --> 01:00:54.050]  And tell your boss.
[01:00:54.270 --> 01:00:54.690]  Well...
[01:00:54.690 --> 01:00:55.730]  And call your mom.
[01:00:55.930 --> 01:00:59.650]  And tell them about the Personal Computer Show every Wednesday at 8 p.m.
[01:00:59.730 --> 01:01:03.150]  on WBAI 99.5 FM.
[01:01:03.630 --> 01:01:04.110]  Okay.