[00:00.000 --> 00:02.080]  ...of Mother Earth and humanity.
[00:02.440 --> 00:08.680]  Wisdom keepers, activists, share spiritual insight and discuss important environmental concerns and cures.
[00:08.940 --> 00:10.320]  An artist will perform.
[00:10.700 --> 00:14.660]  All are welcome at no cost, but donations are greatly appreciated.
[00:15.080 --> 00:18.780]  Bodewin Park is within walking distance from the Metro North Hudson Line.
[00:19.020 --> 00:29.340]  For more information and a complete schedule, go to worldpeaceandprayerday.com or find them on Facebook at World Peace and Prayer Day 2014.
[00:31.740 --> 00:38.740]  And you are listening to WBAI New York, where the time is 7 o'clock.
[02:20.630 --> 02:22.330]  And a very good evening to WBAI.
[02:22.330 --> 02:23.290]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:23.370 --> 02:26.350]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:27.330 --> 02:30.210]  Joined tonight by...
[02:31.390 --> 02:32.810]  Oh, there's so many people here.
[02:34.830 --> 02:35.350]  Makita.
[02:36.770 --> 02:37.290]  Okay.
[02:37.510 --> 02:37.950]  Kailimo.
[02:38.730 --> 02:39.110]  Hi.
[02:39.430 --> 02:39.650]  Hi.
[02:40.010 --> 02:41.390]  At least you know your Brazilian name.
[02:42.950 --> 02:43.990]  Ferrando Santos.
[02:44.610 --> 02:45.910]  For some reason, that's Rob T.
[02:46.030 --> 02:46.390]  Firefly.
[02:46.950 --> 02:47.090]  Hola.
[02:47.350 --> 02:49.150]  I should have said I'm Emmanuel Gostito.
[02:49.150 --> 02:51.630]  That's my Brazilian soccer name.
[02:52.690 --> 02:55.670]  And also joining us on the telephone...
[02:55.670 --> 02:56.310]  Not on the telephone.
[02:56.310 --> 03:00.350]  On the newfangled Comrex device is Incha.
[03:00.510 --> 03:02.650]  And I don't know, Bernie S., why Bernie S.
[03:02.730 --> 03:05.470]  translated to Incha, but that's who you are for the remainder of this show.
[03:07.150 --> 03:08.030]  Incha sounds good.
[03:08.130 --> 03:12.150]  Hey, Emmanuel, I'm going to count up on my volume from one.
[03:12.310 --> 03:13.230]  Tell me where I sound best.
[03:13.230 --> 03:15.210]  If you need to practice, go ahead and count.
[03:15.510 --> 03:16.470]  So far, so good.
[03:16.890 --> 03:20.190]  Two, three, four, five.
[03:20.490 --> 03:20.850]  I should...
[03:20.850 --> 03:20.970]  Oh.
[03:21.330 --> 03:22.430]  No, I want you to keep going.
[03:22.550 --> 03:22.970]  I want you to...
[03:22.970 --> 03:29.750]  Five, six, siete, ocho, nueve, diez.
[03:30.070 --> 03:31.330]  So what was the best level?
[03:32.070 --> 03:32.470]  One.
[03:34.430 --> 03:34.830]  Really?
[03:35.070 --> 03:36.970]  Well, it's best for me right now.
[03:37.470 --> 03:37.490]  How about zero?
[03:37.810 --> 03:41.270]  Well, first of all, yeah, okay, I'd say maybe about, what, four?
[03:41.270 --> 03:41.910]  What do you think?
[03:42.650 --> 03:43.310]  Three and a half.
[03:43.470 --> 03:43.730]  Three and a half.
[03:43.830 --> 03:44.530]  By the way, I also want to...
[03:44.530 --> 03:44.610]  One through?
[03:44.810 --> 03:45.970]  I also want to just redhack.
[03:46.050 --> 03:51.710]  And redhack, I'm sorry, I tried to put your name into the Brazilian name generator, and it doesn't understand how to do that for your name.
[03:51.810 --> 03:51.930]  Yeah.
[03:51.930 --> 03:53.070]  That's the only one it failed for.
[03:53.430 --> 03:54.010]  Everybody else.
[03:54.010 --> 03:55.630]  Too many consonants near each other, Paul.
[03:56.070 --> 03:58.410]  It's also, redhack is not really a word.
[03:58.550 --> 03:59.190]  That's also true.
[03:59.310 --> 04:01.690]  Yeah, whereas every other name is technically a word.
[04:02.270 --> 04:04.330]  But I hope everybody has remembered their names.
[04:04.330 --> 04:09.650]  And if there's a name you'd like me to input, I can try that right now, as we have the app up.
[04:09.830 --> 04:11.390]  Do we have to do the whole show in Portuguese?
[04:11.850 --> 04:12.810]  No, we don't have to do that.
[04:12.810 --> 04:14.950]  But you do have to remember your name, Makita.
[04:15.250 --> 04:16.930]  I don't think I can remember that.
[04:17.050 --> 04:19.510]  All right, well, better get used to it.
[04:19.870 --> 04:21.410]  What happens if you put in Drop Table?
[04:21.930 --> 04:24.570]  You know, it's a serious application, Rob.
[04:24.670 --> 04:25.170]  It's not the...
[04:25.170 --> 04:25.530]  I'm sorry.
[04:25.810 --> 04:26.630]  Or Ferundo Santos.
[04:26.730 --> 04:27.790]  Why are you Ferundo Santos?
[04:27.950 --> 04:29.010]  Why do you get a cool name like that?
[04:29.190 --> 04:29.770]  How does Rob T.
[04:29.770 --> 04:31.130]  Firefly turn into Ferundo Santos?
[04:31.770 --> 04:38.250]  Well, when the Firefly family came here from Brazil, they were, of course, the Ferundo Santos family.
[04:39.110 --> 04:41.190]  And then they changed it to an English sound.
[04:41.190 --> 04:42.190]  Yeah, they were Americanized.
[04:42.290 --> 04:42.730]  It was very sad.
[04:42.910 --> 04:43.750]  Carlimo, what do you think?
[04:44.510 --> 04:45.110]  I don't.
[04:45.350 --> 04:45.710]  All right, good.
[04:45.770 --> 04:46.750]  That's probably best around here.
[04:47.390 --> 04:51.230]  Well, here we are, the merry band of off-the-hook people.
[04:51.370 --> 04:53.850]  And Redhack, I should say, you're back from California.
[04:54.190 --> 04:54.570]  Yeah.
[04:54.870 --> 04:55.890]  What brings you back here?
[04:56.170 --> 04:58.450]  Just out here for the week.
[04:58.450 --> 05:01.030]  Okay, but you're going to be back out here in a month.
[05:01.190 --> 05:01.630]  I will be.
[05:01.850 --> 05:02.970]  Yeah, hope is coming up.
[05:03.190 --> 05:10.870]  In fact, this particular edition of Off the Hook, we're going to be focusing on some of the speaker summations we have released already.
[05:11.270 --> 05:12.810]  It's well over 70 now.
[05:13.030 --> 05:14.190]  Last week, I think it was 25.
[05:14.670 --> 05:16.210]  And we just keep chugging away at it.
[05:16.310 --> 05:17.830]  When we're done, it's going to be around 100.
[05:18.370 --> 05:19.990]  And the schedule is about to come out as well.
[05:20.150 --> 05:22.730]  So we've been pretty busy, pretty busy.
[05:22.910 --> 05:24.570]  And this conference is going to be pretty awesome.
[05:25.610 --> 05:31.030]  It drains the life out of us, but it's worth it, I guess, in the end, wouldn't you say?
[05:32.210 --> 05:32.510]  Yes.
[05:34.230 --> 05:35.550]  After a long nap.
[05:35.990 --> 05:36.690]  Yeah, pretty much.
[05:36.830 --> 05:37.130]  Pretty much.
[05:37.610 --> 05:40.830]  So we have a lot of the talks that we've gotten.
[05:40.950 --> 05:44.810]  Of course, our keynote is Daniel Ellsberg, which is pretty amazing right there.
[05:45.490 --> 05:47.450]  The whistleblower of all whistleblowers.
[05:47.450 --> 05:50.870]  We also have NSA whistleblower Thomas Drake coming as well.
[05:51.530 --> 05:54.510]  We've got all kinds of talks about surveillance.
[05:54.650 --> 05:56.030]  I'm just going to read you a few titles here.
[05:58.810 --> 06:01.470]  Surveillance, suveillance, and anti-surveillance.
[06:01.470 --> 06:03.590]  Those are artistic responses to watching.
[06:04.230 --> 06:05.850]  Just to read the summation of that one.
[06:05.950 --> 06:07.790]  It's impossible to imagine a world without surveillance.
[06:07.970 --> 06:12.950]  Its presence reflects a symbiotic relationship with the state and hegemony as a whole.
[06:12.950 --> 06:19.330]  For years, artists have been using surveillance and surveillance technologies to engage and disrupt the surveillance apparatus.
[06:19.510 --> 06:30.590]  And this talk will explore works by artists such as Stephen Mann, Banksy, the surveillance camera players, and many more working in the medium to answer the question of how are we to engage with a surveillance society.
[06:30.590 --> 06:34.430]  And that is what we live in today, folks, a surveillance society on so many levels.
[06:35.670 --> 06:37.290]  Bernie, you've been on the speaker committee.
[06:37.290 --> 06:43.530]  Bernie, you've noticed a bunch of these surveillance-themed talks that we've gotten this particular time around.
[06:44.290 --> 06:48.170]  Well, it seems to be the subject of the day.
[06:48.310 --> 06:48.890]  Not of the day.
[06:49.010 --> 06:49.490]  Of the year.
[06:49.630 --> 06:51.230]  Of the era.
[06:51.970 --> 07:10.570]  So, naturally, with hoping, you know, on top of what's going on at any given moment, every time we do hope, we follow what people really care about, which is surveillance and privacy and anonymity and all those things connected with it.
[07:10.730 --> 07:17.470]  So, yes, we will be having a lot of speakers talk about all these various aspects of this topic.
[07:17.770 --> 07:23.450]  And there's no way you're going to get this much information on this kind of stuff than hope.
[07:23.630 --> 07:24.110]  That's for sure.
[07:24.750 --> 07:25.690]  That's very true.
[07:25.690 --> 07:35.010]  And I was just very amazed at how the community has grown over the decades, where, you know, in the past, we would have a lot of fun talks on just hacking in general.
[07:35.190 --> 07:37.570]  But it's gotten so much bigger than that over the years.
[07:37.690 --> 07:56.570]  And through all the earth-shattering newspaper headlines, not just about hackers getting into your computer account, which is utter nonsense, but things about surveillance, things about privacy, things that hackers understand, and hackers are the people that reveal this information.
[07:56.910 --> 07:58.950]  They are, indeed, whistleblowers by default.
[07:59.170 --> 08:12.670]  So it's just incredible to me to see the community basically coming together and having all of these conversations and talks and presentations that focus on that topic primarily.
[08:13.790 --> 08:22.530]  But there are all kinds of other things as well, all sorts of technical talks, non-technical talks, artistic, social, mischievous, you name it, it's all going to be there.
[08:22.570 --> 08:23.650]  And that's just the talks.
[08:23.850 --> 08:25.130]  Those are just the talks that we're having.
[08:25.650 --> 08:27.590]  We have all kinds of workshops.
[08:27.850 --> 08:29.090]  Bernie, I know you've been working on workshops.
[08:29.210 --> 08:30.430]  Anything you care to share with us?
[08:30.430 --> 08:46.050]  Oh, well, Mitch and I have been, and a very able volunteer named Brian, who is from Brazil as well and speaks Portuguese, have all been on the vendor coordination team.
[08:46.190 --> 08:49.830]  And we've got well over a dozen workshops lined up.
[08:50.030 --> 08:53.370]  Some of them are follow-ups to talks.
[08:53.370 --> 08:56.430]  So if you come to a talk about a really interesting topic...
[08:58.370 --> 08:59.090]  Uh-oh.
[08:59.290 --> 08:59.450]  Yeah?
[08:59.450 --> 09:03.050]  Well, that was a conditional statement that Bernie never finished.
[09:03.190 --> 09:04.310]  Bernie, are you with us?
[09:05.410 --> 09:10.070]  Apparently, it's so interesting that we can't hear about it.
[09:10.210 --> 09:10.430]  Wow.
[09:10.830 --> 09:12.710]  See, this is what the NSA will go.
[09:12.870 --> 09:15.390]  They will stop at nothing to silence us.
[09:15.490 --> 09:20.870]  Well, if Bernie were here to finish that sentence, I think he...
[09:20.870 --> 09:21.930]  I don't know what he would have said.
[09:22.150 --> 09:23.890]  I can't imagine what he would have said.
[09:24.090 --> 09:27.130]  I mean, so some of the talks have, as he said, a workshop component.
[09:27.130 --> 09:36.090]  And so if you want more information or a more hands-on experience about something that is talked about, then there will sometimes be an opportunity to do so.
[09:36.310 --> 09:36.590]  Yes.
[09:36.750 --> 09:38.530]  I'm sure he would have said it much better than that.
[09:38.550 --> 09:38.930]  Probably would have.
[09:39.010 --> 09:40.150]  Is he going to reconnect to us?
[09:40.210 --> 09:40.890]  Do I have to do something?
[09:41.010 --> 09:41.330]  I've never had this happen before.
[09:41.350 --> 09:42.330]  We don't have to do anything.
[09:42.470 --> 09:43.730]  We have to wait for him to just hook back up.
[09:43.910 --> 09:47.090]  Does he think he might not realize he's not on the air and is still talking now?
[09:47.770 --> 09:48.650]  That's pretty likely.
[09:48.730 --> 09:49.830]  Remember I did that once in Germany?
[09:50.010 --> 09:50.090]  Yeah.
[09:50.650 --> 09:55.190]  I did almost a whole show on the phone thinking I was still connected because I didn't get any signal that I wasn't.
[09:55.290 --> 09:56.930]  Still among our highest rated episodes, I think.
[09:56.970 --> 09:58.590]  It was a good one.
[09:58.590 --> 09:59.110]  That's for sure.
[09:59.310 --> 10:03.550]  Well, by the way, okay, so we were talking about Mitch Altman and I just wanted to generate his Brazilian name.
[10:03.750 --> 10:09.790]  And it turns out, as it's being generated live, he would be cert error number 3174921.
[10:09.930 --> 10:10.770]  How is that possible?
[10:11.310 --> 10:13.090]  What is the algorithm that this thing uses?
[10:13.090 --> 10:13.890]  Well, I don't know now.
[10:14.190 --> 10:14.890]  Cert error?
[10:15.150 --> 10:15.330]  Really?
[10:15.590 --> 10:17.630]  That's what Mitch Altman translates to.
[10:17.830 --> 10:19.370]  Well, that's a good one.
[10:19.590 --> 10:23.890]  It doesn't sound very Brazilian, but yeah, okay.
[10:25.270 --> 10:26.150]  We have...
[10:26.150 --> 10:31.950]  Before we get back into some hope talks and other things, hope-related.
[10:32.850 --> 10:33.830]  Oh, Bernie, are you back?
[10:34.090 --> 10:35.150]  Yeah, I'm very sorry.
[10:35.270 --> 10:36.230]  My microphone cut out.
[10:36.430 --> 10:37.430]  I don't know where...
[10:37.430 --> 10:38.670]  I was talking about workshops.
[10:38.670 --> 10:39.710]  Did you hear any of that?
[10:39.790 --> 10:41.890]  Well, you got to the comma in the statement.
[10:42.430 --> 10:46.830]  Okay, well, I was just saying, we have well over a dozen workshops and more to come.
[10:47.150 --> 10:50.810]  But what's interesting is, to me, is one of the...
[10:50.810 --> 10:52.750]  A couple of workshops...
[10:52.750 --> 10:55.230]  Several of the workshops pertain to talks.
[10:55.410 --> 11:03.370]  Like, if you come to a talk or a panel discussion, there may be a workshop following, explaining, you know, where you can get your hands on.
[11:03.470 --> 11:08.630]  Like, if there's a talk about building something, then you can do a workshop after that and actually build that thing.
[11:09.430 --> 11:13.410]  Or there's a couple of workshops about Freedom of Information Act requests.
[11:13.570 --> 11:18.590]  Mike Radvinsky, who had given a workshop on this two years ago at Hope No.
[11:18.670 --> 11:37.730]  9, will be giving introductory FOIA and advanced FOIA, which FOIA, Freedom of Information Act requests, are used very heavily by ACLU and Electronic Frontier Foundation and other groups to really dig out and get information about what our government is keeping secret from us.
[11:38.270 --> 11:40.330]  And you'll learn how to do this on your own.
[11:40.390 --> 11:50.730]  And the advanced FOIA workshop will tell you how to do it without having to pay a lot of really expensive fees that the government tries to impose to keep you from filing these FOIA requests.
[11:50.730 --> 11:52.930]  So I highly recommend that as well.
[11:53.790 --> 12:10.710]  There are an immense number of talks where you'll learn things like that, about Freedom of Information, about what the government might be storing about you, about ways that you can get around certain restrictions and other things like that.
[12:10.890 --> 12:14.810]  There's an amazing panel called Ask the EFF, This Year on the Internet.
[12:15.130 --> 12:30.770]  And that one is basically summed up by saying, hear from lawyers, activists, technologists, international policy analysts from the EFF, Electronic Frontier Foundation, the nation's premier digital civil liberties group, fighting for freedom and privacy in the computer age.
[12:31.230 --> 12:45.890]  And basically, there'll be updates on all kinds of issues, like the efforts to end mass spying, both here and abroad, the fight against the use of intellectual property, intellectual property claims, rather, to shut down free speech and halt innovation.
[12:45.890 --> 12:47.510]  That's pretty scary in and of itself.
[12:47.630 --> 12:50.850]  You can probably fill an hour just listing some examples of that.
[12:51.310 --> 12:58.750]  There'll be a discussion of their technology projects to protect privacy and speech online, updates on their cases against, cases against the NSA.
[12:58.890 --> 13:00.270]  They have multiple cases against the NSA.
[13:00.730 --> 13:02.450]  And just all kinds of things like that.
[13:02.510 --> 13:08.430]  Your opportunity to actually ask the people in the front lines what's up and what they're doing and how you can help.
[13:09.190 --> 13:11.870]  You can see the entire listing so far.
[13:11.990 --> 13:13.810]  It's not complete by any stretch of the imagination.
[13:13.930 --> 13:19.570]  At x.hope.net and just click on Schedule and you'll see what we have so far.
[13:19.670 --> 13:20.910]  It's really impressive.
[13:20.910 --> 13:23.170]  I gotta say, it's a lot of fun.
[13:23.170 --> 13:32.810]  You know, when you gave these papers to those of us in the studio to review and pick a favorite talk, it's really difficult because I just looked at one talk and I was like, oh, I should talk about that one.
[13:32.930 --> 13:33.510]  It's Jason Scott.
[13:33.650 --> 13:34.770]  Jason Scott is always fascinating.
[13:35.110 --> 13:38.070]  And then I went to the next page and I realized that...
[13:38.070 --> 13:38.330]  Wait, wait.
[13:38.370 --> 13:39.210]  You're just gonna stop there?
[13:39.330 --> 13:40.230]  Jason Scott, he's always...
[13:40.230 --> 13:41.470]  You're not gonna say more about him?
[13:41.470 --> 13:43.470]  Because everyone should know that Jason Scott is fascinating.
[13:43.470 --> 13:44.670]  We've had him on the show.
[13:45.550 --> 13:47.070]  The blurb is on the website.
[13:47.270 --> 13:55.550]  But this talk that I want to talk in slightly more depth was a bit more controversial when we discussed it on the speaker decision process.
[13:55.730 --> 14:01.850]  And it's Jennifer Ortiz who will be giving a talk entitled Bringing Down the Biological System, How Poisons Hack the Body.
[14:02.310 --> 14:13.390]  And I think you will not get this kind of information at this kind of level at any technical conference except Hope and maybe some like actual pharmacology conferences.
[14:13.390 --> 14:14.290]  She gives really good talks.
[14:14.590 --> 14:17.410]  She's spoken at the last two conferences as well.
[14:17.610 --> 14:21.850]  And she's just really into chemistry and experiments and explaining it all.
[14:21.990 --> 14:23.470]  And you learn so much from that.
[14:23.610 --> 14:23.990]  And that's just...
[14:23.990 --> 14:24.690]  Yeah, exactly.
[14:24.790 --> 14:26.530]  That's just one talk of...
[14:26.530 --> 14:26.790]  Emmanuel.
[14:26.990 --> 14:27.170]  Yes.
[14:27.750 --> 14:28.270]  Go ahead, Brian.
[14:28.270 --> 14:34.430]  I just want to point out, this is not a talk about how to harm people with poisons, about how poisons work.
[14:34.590 --> 14:39.550]  And there are poisons all around us and stuff we ingest or are exposed to in the air.
[14:39.730 --> 14:41.170]  And this talk will be...
[14:41.170 --> 14:45.970]  Well, it's sort of off the beaten path for Hope.
[14:46.070 --> 14:53.790]  But it's really about sort of hacking the body, which is one of the most amazing systems ever invented or created.
[14:54.030 --> 15:04.770]  And how it's sort of applying the thoughts of how, you know, malware and things like that affect computers, how different toxins and chemicals affect the human body.
[15:04.770 --> 15:07.530]  So I think this is really topical, and it's going to be really interesting.
[15:08.130 --> 15:09.150]  It certainly will be.
[15:09.750 --> 15:12.230]  And there's information about antidotes as well.
[15:12.690 --> 15:13.130]  Yeah.
[15:13.810 --> 15:15.230]  Antidotes and anecdotes.
[15:15.470 --> 15:15.990]  Absolutely.
[15:16.250 --> 15:16.310]  Yeah.
[15:17.030 --> 15:21.250]  Speaking of anecdotes, there's one talk I'm particularly interested in.
[15:22.030 --> 15:22.750]  And that's...
[15:23.310 --> 15:26.030]  It sounds pretty incredible in and of itself.
[15:27.530 --> 15:28.330]  But hang on.
[15:28.450 --> 15:30.130]  I'm trying to access our own website here.
[15:30.270 --> 15:30.750]  And it's...
[15:30.750 --> 15:33.530]  Yeah, it's called Rickrolling Your Neighbors with Google Chromecast.
[15:34.550 --> 15:35.270]  Now, come on.
[15:35.270 --> 15:36.170]  This is nothing but fun.
[15:36.430 --> 15:39.150]  Take control over your neighbor's TVs like in the movies.
[15:39.470 --> 15:40.570]  Do they do that in the movies?
[15:40.770 --> 15:43.550]  I mean, I know we do that in our own circle of friends.
[15:43.630 --> 15:44.530]  We take control.
[15:44.650 --> 15:47.350]  But I guess, you know, maybe in some movies they do that.
[15:47.350 --> 15:53.990]  But the Google Chromecast is a handy little gadget that lets you stream video to your TV from a variety of sources like Netflix and YouTube.
[15:54.390 --> 15:57.350]  It also happens to allow streaming from nearby hackers.
[15:59.010 --> 16:06.450]  This talk will demonstrate how to hijack any Google Chromecast, even if it's behind a secure Wi-Fi network.
[16:07.250 --> 16:07.710]  Yeah.
[16:07.970 --> 16:10.610]  And it'll then do your bidding.
[16:11.030 --> 16:19.070]  A new tool will also be released to fully automate the hijacking and playing of arbitrary video to the victim's TV.
[16:19.590 --> 16:21.330]  Let the prank wars commence.
[16:21.550 --> 16:22.150]  Oh, uh-oh.
[16:23.090 --> 16:24.270]  I hit the wrong button.
[16:26.730 --> 16:27.090]  Sorry.
[16:27.430 --> 16:28.310]  Didn't mean to do that.
[16:28.410 --> 16:28.590]  Okay.
[16:29.450 --> 16:30.230]  You've got to be careful.
[16:30.370 --> 16:31.670]  You've got to be really, really careful with these things.
[16:32.030 --> 16:34.450]  But one of very many talks...
[16:34.450 --> 16:35.630]  Kyle, it looks like you have a favorite.
[16:36.470 --> 16:37.110]  Yeah, I'm reading...
[16:37.110 --> 16:37.430]  I'm sorry.
[16:37.510 --> 16:38.770]  I said your name wrong, didn't I?
[16:39.530 --> 16:40.010]  Hang on.
[16:40.050 --> 16:41.750]  What's the piece of paper that has your real name?
[16:41.930 --> 16:42.650]  Kai Limo.
[16:43.810 --> 16:44.170]  Yes.
[16:44.310 --> 16:44.610]  Go ahead.
[16:44.810 --> 16:45.390]  Yes, I'm here.
[16:46.610 --> 16:49.750]  I just wanted to mention this one from DeviantOlem.
[16:50.330 --> 16:53.610]  It's elevator hacking from the pit to the penthouse.
[16:54.750 --> 16:55.270]  Okay.
[16:55.510 --> 16:56.370]  Sounds really interesting.
[16:57.510 --> 16:58.030]  And...
[16:58.030 --> 16:58.570]  Elevator hacking.
[16:58.750 --> 17:00.410]  A whole panel on elevator hacking.
[17:00.530 --> 17:01.330]  What does that mean?
[17:01.630 --> 17:02.390]  Just elevators.
[17:02.570 --> 17:02.770]  I guess...
[17:02.770 --> 17:05.110]  Like literal physical elevators that they have in buildings.
[17:05.270 --> 17:09.670]  Yeah, I think you would call it a lift if you were in the UK.
[17:11.330 --> 17:20.470]  But, yeah, basically in-depth explanation of how elevators work, allowing for greater understanding, system optimization, and the subversion of security in many facilities.
[17:21.030 --> 17:27.550]  Those who attend will learn why an elevator is virtually no different than a staircase, as far as building security is concerned.
[17:28.710 --> 17:29.230]  Fascinating.
[17:29.430 --> 17:30.030]  Very fascinating.
[17:30.410 --> 17:32.730]  There's something I'd like to focus on.
[17:33.390 --> 17:34.170]  Not that.
[17:34.330 --> 17:35.030]  I'm sorry.
[17:35.190 --> 17:36.130]  Wrong thing again.
[17:36.130 --> 17:39.230]  Man, this is a dial tone.
[17:40.370 --> 17:41.450]  And we're going to call a number.
[17:42.590 --> 17:44.930]  Actually, let me first explain this a little bit.
[17:45.710 --> 17:46.930]  This is about recruiter spam.
[17:47.330 --> 17:49.050]  You guys know what a recruiter spam is, right?
[17:50.050 --> 17:52.630]  It's basically when somebody calls you at work.
[17:53.650 --> 17:53.970]  And...
[17:53.970 --> 17:55.110]  Well, Rob, I think you understand it, right?
[17:55.650 --> 17:56.770]  What is it they want?
[17:57.710 --> 18:00.430]  I never pick up the phone, so I never know what people are trying to get me to do.
[18:00.430 --> 18:05.210]  But a recruiter calls, and they're trying to hire people away from your company?
[18:05.290 --> 18:06.390]  Is that what they're doing?
[18:06.710 --> 18:08.490]  Something like that, as I understand it.
[18:08.610 --> 18:12.770]  They're trying to hire people away from your company, trying to fill various...
[18:12.770 --> 18:14.710]  or trying to get people to work at your company.
[18:15.730 --> 18:17.690]  And, you know, what positions have you got open?
[18:17.850 --> 18:19.130]  We've got people to fit the positions.
[18:19.210 --> 18:20.410]  We've got positions to fit the people.
[18:20.510 --> 18:26.230]  But it's very often just something that they do uninvited and in a spammy manner.
[18:26.530 --> 18:33.890]  Now, according to this website called 42floors.com, They say they're bombarded daily with spam calls and emails from recruiting companies.
[18:34.170 --> 18:42.930]  Most of these we just ignore, but some bad actors decide to contact every person on the engineering team, including calling our mobile numbers, and that is just unacceptable.
[18:43.170 --> 18:44.490]  So it's time to strike back.
[18:44.490 --> 18:46.490]  And what they've done is they've come up with a phone number.
[18:47.190 --> 18:48.890]  And we're going to call that number right now.
[18:50.690 --> 18:52.090]  Except I can't hit that.
[18:52.110 --> 18:52.390]  Oh, there we go.
[18:52.710 --> 18:56.410]  You have to press really hard on these buttons to get them to work.
[18:56.410 --> 18:59.530]  We are entering the 1990s here at WBAI, folks.
[19:02.690 --> 19:03.750]  Okay, hopefully that worked.
[19:05.390 --> 19:08.110]  And we're going to call this recruiter guy.
[19:16.410 --> 19:20.730]  To ensure the highest quality service, this call may be monitored and recorded.
[19:22.150 --> 19:22.990]  Hi, this is Derek.
[19:23.170 --> 19:23.670]  How can I help you?
[19:23.890 --> 19:24.430]  Hi, Derek.
[19:24.550 --> 19:25.950]  It's Emmanuel over at Off The Hook.
[19:27.010 --> 19:27.690]  Are you there?
[19:29.730 --> 19:31.450]  And which company did you see you're with?
[19:31.550 --> 19:34.010]  I said I'm with Off The Hook, you big fat idiot.
[19:35.810 --> 19:36.650]  Okay, great.
[19:36.930 --> 19:38.590]  This is actually pretty good timing.
[19:38.790 --> 19:43.490]  We have several technical positions that we're in the process of trying to fill right now.
[19:43.570 --> 19:51.850]  So probably the easiest thing to do would be for me to give you details about each one of those positions.
[19:52.270 --> 20:02.510]  And then he goes on for a good 15 minutes, just rattling off all kinds of boring job openings that the person calling you might be interested in.
[20:03.230 --> 20:05.750]  And then after 15 minutes, it just loops and starts all over again.
[20:05.950 --> 20:10.430]  So if you want to get even with some of these people, this is the number to call.
[20:10.890 --> 20:13.650]  Area code 415-534-6560.
[20:14.290 --> 20:16.710]  To be clear, this is the number that you give them to call?
[20:17.070 --> 20:17.430]  Yes.
[20:17.550 --> 20:18.790]  And tell them it's your HR department?
[20:18.790 --> 20:22.510]  And so they call this guy who is a recording and waste their time?
[20:22.510 --> 20:23.310]  Well, you could transfer them, too.
[20:23.490 --> 20:24.130]  You could do that as well.
[20:24.130 --> 20:24.930]  You could transfer them.
[20:24.930 --> 20:31.290]  So in case anyone is interested, though, in some of the jobs being offered here, we'll leave him on for the entire show.
[20:31.570 --> 20:32.250]  Is that okay?
[20:32.630 --> 20:33.030]  Any objects?
[20:34.030 --> 20:42.450]  This reminds me of another phone number that came out recently, which plays quotes from Bell Hooks, who's, of course, a well-known feminist.
[20:42.490 --> 20:46.130]  So you can give to people who are hitting on you that you don't want to talk to.
[20:46.510 --> 20:46.910]  Oh, wow.
[20:46.910 --> 20:53.230]  And that number is 669-221-6251, and it responds to both voice calls and texts.
[20:53.410 --> 20:54.530]  So it's very useful.
[20:54.550 --> 20:58.630]  So you could get harassed by a robotic text.
[20:59.490 --> 20:59.890]  Well...
[20:59.890 --> 21:01.650]  If you text it, it'll text you back.
[21:01.770 --> 21:05.730]  I mean, I texted it to test it, and I didn't feel harassed, but...
[21:05.730 --> 21:07.650]  Well, now you're on a list by doing that.
[21:08.010 --> 21:09.070]  What can you list?
[21:09.450 --> 21:11.830]  A list of people that would call a sexist line or something.
[21:11.850 --> 21:12.350]  I don't know.
[21:12.590 --> 21:14.450]  A list of people who want Bell Hooks quotes.
[21:15.250 --> 21:15.990]  That's a list of them.
[21:15.990 --> 21:16.670]  Oh, they're just quotes.
[21:16.790 --> 21:17.030]  That's all.
[21:17.110 --> 21:17.570]  It is just quotes.
[21:17.710 --> 21:18.650]  It's not a conversation like this.
[21:18.670 --> 21:18.990]  No, no.
[21:19.110 --> 21:19.370]  All right.
[21:19.730 --> 21:21.250]  It's a little less advanced.
[21:21.630 --> 21:22.030]  Wait, wait, wait.
[21:22.070 --> 21:22.290]  Hold on.
[21:22.390 --> 21:22.850]  I want the...
[21:22.850 --> 21:27.490]  Like our back-end interns and other members of the team that concentrate on areas outside of the back-end.
[21:27.630 --> 21:28.150]  Okay, never mind.
[21:28.190 --> 21:28.810]  I thought of something else.
[21:29.550 --> 21:33.030]  So, okay, that's a little bit of public service for you right there.
[21:34.070 --> 21:34.610]  What else?
[21:34.630 --> 21:38.290]  We have some news updates as well.
[21:38.370 --> 21:39.090]  Apparently there's a...
[21:39.090 --> 21:40.650]  Well, this actually is a couple of weeks old.
[21:40.730 --> 21:44.010]  We were stuck in fundraising mode for the past, however long that was.
[21:44.770 --> 21:51.710]  And this story came out a couple of weeks ago about a huge new Edward Snowden leak, and no one knew where it came from.
[21:51.910 --> 21:56.790]  The Register published a story containing explosive above-top-secret information.
[21:56.790 --> 22:06.450]  That's a phrase, above-top-secret information about Britain's surveillance programs, including details of a clandestine British base tapping under-seas cables in the Middle East.
[22:06.950 --> 22:15.750]  Reporter Duncan Campbell, who wrote the story, said it was based on documents leaked by fugitive, NSA, cis-admin Edward Snowden that other news outlets had declined to publish.
[22:15.930 --> 22:21.370]  However, it's not necessarily clear how Campbell got his hands on Snowden's document stash.
[22:21.570 --> 22:30.590]  Glenn Greenwald, who published the first stories based on Snowden's documents in The Guardian, said to Business Insider that Snowden has no source relationship with Campbell.
[22:31.590 --> 22:35.910]  He never provided documents to him directly or indirectly, as Snowden has made clear.
[22:36.230 --> 22:39.610]  I can engage in informed speculation about how Duncan got this document.
[22:39.890 --> 22:45.070]  It's certainly a document that several people in The Guardian UK possessed, but how he got it is something only he can answer.
[22:45.170 --> 22:51.950]  So it's kind of interesting that there are now Snowden leaks being leaked, that we can't really figure out how that happened.
[22:52.890 --> 22:54.870]  The story just keeps on giving.
[22:55.010 --> 22:55.430]  What's that, Bernie?
[22:56.330 --> 22:57.150]  Meta leaks.
[22:57.430 --> 22:58.470]  Yes, yes, absolutely.
[22:58.990 --> 22:59.730]  Leaks of leaks.
[23:00.290 --> 23:03.310]  And I guess we'll just see more and more things like this.
[23:04.190 --> 23:09.190]  Now, the other story that I think we really should be focusing on is the issue of net neutrality.
[23:09.490 --> 23:11.110]  We've been talking about this forever.
[23:12.350 --> 23:15.790]  And the issue seems to be coming to a bit of a head.
[23:16.270 --> 23:24.150]  There's lots of talk about it in various places, but the comment period is now open on the FCC website.
[23:24.150 --> 23:30.010]  In fact, the FCC website has crashed under the load of net neutrality commenters.
[23:30.290 --> 23:37.590]  It crashed pretty hard about a week or so ago after the agency was overwhelmed with users commenting on their net neutrality proceeding.
[23:39.470 --> 23:43.790]  Some people think it was because of John Oliver and his rant about it.
[23:43.950 --> 23:45.870]  If you haven't seen that, look at it.
[23:46.070 --> 23:47.370]  Kyle, you were playing it loud the other day.
[23:47.570 --> 23:48.230]  Where'd you find it?
[23:49.310 --> 23:53.450]  It's on YouTube and it's just... just search John Oliver net neutrality.
[23:54.190 --> 23:58.230]  But I actually was inspired to go and look at the comment site.
[23:58.350 --> 24:02.530]  And I think they have about... well, when I first looked, they had about 120,000.
[24:02.630 --> 24:04.530]  And a day later, there's like 6,000 more.
[24:04.630 --> 24:09.670]  And that's far and away more comments than they've had on a lot of the other issues up there on the comment site.
[24:09.670 --> 24:17.650]  So just in a day, like 6,000, 7,000 more comments were added to this already huge listing of comments.
[24:17.650 --> 24:21.890]  Well, I'm looking at their website right now and... or actually a little while ago.
[24:22.470 --> 24:27.510]  Protecting and Promoting the Open Internet is the title that you can leave your comments on.
[24:27.590 --> 24:31.230]  They have 126,818 comments so far.
[24:31.370 --> 24:32.990]  You know, that is a lot.
[24:33.090 --> 24:36.550]  But in our world of millions and billions, it doesn't sound like a lot.
[24:36.550 --> 24:41.390]  You know, and Justin Bieber can belch on YouTube and get a million hits right away.
[24:41.730 --> 24:42.670]  But it is a lot.
[24:42.770 --> 24:49.570]  When you compare it to other things on the FCC website, the second closest to the 126,000 is 16,000.
[24:49.570 --> 24:51.510]  And the third is 4,000.
[24:51.630 --> 24:53.730]  And it just keeps plummeting down from there.
[24:53.830 --> 24:55.350]  So 126,000 comments.
[24:55.470 --> 24:56.550]  And I assume they're comments.
[24:56.830 --> 24:58.050]  Well-worded comments.
[24:58.530 --> 24:59.830]  That's going to mean something.
[25:00.030 --> 25:05.130]  And you can be a part of this by going to www.fcc.gov slash comments.
[25:05.550 --> 25:09.430]  And make sure you comment as to why net neutrality is important.
[25:09.510 --> 25:09.810]  Right, Hecht?
[25:09.950 --> 25:10.150]  Yeah.
[25:10.310 --> 25:16.210]  And the difference between that and some random, you know, comment on the Internet is that somebody probably has to read all of these.
[25:16.370 --> 25:17.170]  That's true, too.
[25:17.330 --> 25:21.290]  Because they actually have to review all the comments on the proposal.
[25:21.650 --> 25:24.170]  In fact, it's a civil servant's job to read all of those.
[25:24.410 --> 25:24.570]  Yeah.
[25:25.030 --> 25:25.530]  Go ahead, Barney.
[25:25.530 --> 25:44.870]  I wanted to point out that people really should have an incentive to make their comments to this notice of proposed rulemaking by the FCC because the cable industry has been caught astroturfing these comments.
[25:45.030 --> 25:47.530]  And I think there's a story about that.
[25:47.630 --> 25:49.270]  Or maybe somebody there in the studio has a comment.
[25:49.890 --> 25:50.410]  Oh, boy.
[25:50.530 --> 25:51.270]  See, every time.
[25:51.590 --> 25:53.010]  Every time he's about to make a point.
[25:53.530 --> 25:53.930]  All right.
[25:54.450 --> 25:55.050]  You back, Barney?
[25:56.710 --> 25:57.850]  The drones are getting him.
[25:57.950 --> 25:58.530]  Listen to this.
[25:59.070 --> 25:59.770]  This is awful.
[25:59.910 --> 26:00.330]  How about now?
[26:00.630 --> 26:01.370]  It's a little better.
[26:01.370 --> 26:04.970]  But maybe if you stick your head out the window or something, at least we could hear you through the air.
[26:05.050 --> 26:05.570]  Bad area.
[26:06.090 --> 26:07.250]  I should stand up on the roof.
[26:07.330 --> 26:07.750]  Can you hear me now?
[26:07.770 --> 26:09.470]  You're in a bad time is what you're in.
[26:11.350 --> 26:11.750]  All right.
[26:11.850 --> 26:12.370]  Well, anyway.
[26:12.510 --> 26:12.670]  Yeah.
[26:12.790 --> 26:14.750]  Did you hear what I was saying about the astroturfing?
[26:15.570 --> 26:16.210]  Yes, we did.
[26:16.310 --> 26:18.970]  Why don't you explain the term astroturfing to people who might not know what that means?
[26:19.270 --> 26:22.510]  Well, astroturf is like what they use on football fields.
[26:22.770 --> 26:23.230]  It's pretend.
[26:23.470 --> 26:24.330]  It's fake grass.
[26:24.670 --> 26:29.430]  So it's sort of like a play on the grassroots sort of thing, like a grassroots movement.
[26:31.170 --> 26:31.970]  People sometimes...
[26:31.970 --> 26:34.590]  So it's like a big company pretending to be grassroots when they're not.
[26:34.770 --> 26:35.170]  Exactly.
[26:35.270 --> 26:38.530]  A big company will try to say this is a grassroots movement, but it's really astroturf.
[26:38.670 --> 26:39.010]  It's fake.
[26:39.110 --> 26:41.970]  It's plastic comments from fake people.
[26:42.210 --> 26:42.610]  Okay.
[26:42.810 --> 26:50.730]  You know, Barney, I think what you're doing right now is you're demonstrating what could happen to our connectivity if we don't play the game that they're trying to force down our throats.
[26:50.870 --> 26:53.490]  Basically, they call it the fast lane of the internet.
[26:53.650 --> 26:57.290]  Like, you could pay extra for the fast lane, or you can just be on the regular lane.
[26:57.290 --> 27:00.030]  And if you're going to be in the regular lane, you're going to sound like crap.
[27:00.210 --> 27:00.930]  How about that?
[27:01.510 --> 27:01.830]  All right.
[27:03.190 --> 27:05.110]  Or just have very slow speeds.
[27:05.390 --> 27:24.590]  And what I'm saying, Emmanuel, is that people really need to put their comments on their website through WBAI.org on this, because they're going to have to compete against the astroturfing from the cable TV industry, which is saying, from the cable industry and the other ISPs that are saying,
[27:24.690 --> 27:30.030]  well, we don't want net neutrality because it'll affect our business model and whatever.
[27:30.370 --> 27:33.790]  And we want to be able to charge more for you to access certain parts of the internet.
[27:34.090 --> 27:45.230]  So if you care about this, and you probably, and you really should care about this, everybody listening should care about this, because this is about freedom of information and who's going to control the information you have access to.
[27:45.510 --> 27:52.610]  Go to the WBA.org website and follow the link to put your comments into the FCC's website on this.
[27:53.010 --> 27:55.310]  Or just go to FCC.gov slash comments.
[27:55.430 --> 27:55.990]  You can do that too.
[27:56.430 --> 28:04.210]  What I really recommend is that people listen to John Oliver's tirade on this, because if you're not motivated before that, you will be motivated after listening to that.
[28:04.330 --> 28:08.830]  And one of the things he says, which I really agree with, is that this has to not be boring.
[28:09.050 --> 28:12.970]  There are so many people out there that are trying to explain this and putting people to sleep.
[28:13.350 --> 28:19.470]  And I think that does more to turn people off to actually fighting the battles than anything that the opposition is doing.
[28:19.690 --> 28:22.710]  So by all means, get involved, get angry, get informed.
[28:22.930 --> 28:34.310]  I mean, not to stray too far from the actual importance of the issue, but as a result of John Oliver's bit, apparently the head of the FCC, Tom Wheeler, has now officially denied being a dingo, which is nice.
[28:34.550 --> 28:35.570]  Well, that's a start.
[28:35.770 --> 28:39.290]  That's a little bit of progress there.
[28:40.110 --> 28:41.850]  Okay, what else do we have?
[28:42.090 --> 28:43.210]  This is interesting.
[28:44.930 --> 28:53.990]  Basically, there is a computer program out there that addresses changes to Supreme Court opinions.
[28:54.650 --> 29:00.830]  I'm going to read this piece that appeared on a website over the last few days.
[29:03.210 --> 29:04.050]  Okay, I'm sorry.
[29:04.130 --> 29:05.490]  I should have read this a little bit more carefully.
[29:05.650 --> 29:08.730]  It's all the kinds of links and things I can't really read on the air.
[29:09.330 --> 29:21.210]  But last week, okay, last week, this guy who I'm not sure who they're referring to, I think it's Adam Liptak, I believe, or maybe he wrote about it, launched SCOTUS Servo, a Twitter account.
[29:22.290 --> 29:26.350]  It's S-C-O-T-U-S underscore S-E-R-V-O.
[29:26.610 --> 29:30.770]  It alerts followers whenever a change is made to a Supreme Court opinion.
[29:31.310 --> 29:32.770]  The process is fairly simple.
[29:33.130 --> 29:37.050]  Actually, the guy who wrote this actually is named David Zveniak.
[29:37.450 --> 29:46.770]  And he explained in a phone interview, it uses something called Node, that's an application written in JavaScript, to crawl the slip opinions posted to the Supreme Court website.
[29:47.010 --> 29:54.450]  Now, if the application, which performs a crawl every five minutes, detects a change, it notifies the automated Twitter account, which then tweets out an alert.
[29:54.850 --> 30:01.550]  Now, I'm not sure what kind of changes are being made to Supreme Court decisions, other than maybe spelling corrections or things like that.
[30:01.570 --> 30:07.330]  But it sounds awfully Orwellian if they can go back and change the wording of opinions.
[30:07.770 --> 30:09.810]  Is there evidence that this has actually been done?
[30:09.810 --> 30:14.250]  Yeah, I mean, this is the thing that's crazy that has been in the news a bit recently.
[30:14.610 --> 30:17.390]  Most of the changes are just spelling or commas or whatever.
[30:17.550 --> 30:24.270]  But apparently, sometimes, sometimes even years after the opinion comes out, they'll make fairly substantial revisions to the opinions.
[30:24.270 --> 30:29.570]  And they don't, you know, they don't post an errata or a change log or anything like that.
[30:29.750 --> 30:31.890]  They just go back and change the opinion.
[30:31.890 --> 30:34.190]  And that's now the word of the Supreme Court.
[30:35.130 --> 30:44.270]  People may be familiar with a thing called News Diffs, which does the same thing for the New York Times and maybe some other popular websites where they change the news stories as time progresses.
[30:44.730 --> 30:48.830]  I didn't realize that the Supreme Court changed their opinions also.
[30:49.050 --> 30:52.050]  But but now we know and now there's a service to track them.
[30:52.110 --> 30:57.210]  Does this mean then that the opinions are not a matter that's recorded somewhere on paper?
[30:57.310 --> 31:06.030]  I mean, I would I would have imagined, right, that when opinion is published, that they as as old school as it is, they print it up and put it, you know, say, in the Library of Congress or whatever.
[31:06.030 --> 31:09.310]  But it sounds like that, you know, when the digital form can be altered.
[31:09.450 --> 31:12.010]  I'm curious, then what happens to the the archival records?
[31:12.210 --> 31:15.330]  Well, there's a guy or is that the only thing that exists these days?
[31:15.390 --> 31:22.730]  There's a guy who works at a desk and he's got this little hole that goes into a fire thing and he throws it in there and then replaces it with the new one.
[31:22.810 --> 31:23.070]  Right.
[31:23.190 --> 31:25.950]  My understanding is that the Supreme Court works very slowly.
[31:25.950 --> 31:29.190]  So people read the opinions when they're published online because they don't want to wait.
[31:29.370 --> 31:32.650]  You know, they don't need to wait five years for it to come out in book form.
[31:32.950 --> 31:36.250]  But in that intervening time, occasionally changes are made.
[31:36.430 --> 31:37.030]  But think of this.
[31:37.190 --> 31:38.910]  The Supreme Court is the highest example.
[31:39.050 --> 31:40.530]  Think of this on lower levels.
[31:40.730 --> 31:41.710]  Think of local government.
[31:41.890 --> 31:47.510]  Think of of speeches and things from from fairly low officials and and moderate officials.
[31:48.130 --> 31:51.270]  And you see the danger here, because who's tracking all that?
[31:51.390 --> 31:58.310]  We have to pretty much be watching everything and keeping track of of what might be changed sneakily revising history, revising history.
[31:58.510 --> 32:00.130]  Yeah, it's it's what every dictator wants.
[32:00.270 --> 32:01.630]  It's what every leader wants, actually.
[32:01.810 --> 32:07.810]  The Internet Archive, of course, can can do some of this, but it's good to have an automated thing for specific cases like this.
[32:07.930 --> 32:08.290]  Bernie?
[32:08.550 --> 32:08.970]  Emmanuel.
[32:09.230 --> 32:25.810]  It reminds me of a... Do you remember the stories decades ago about about the Soviet Union and how their textbooks and other books would would would would just change like they're like be a photograph of somebody who's missing a photograph within an extra vision of the book?
[32:25.970 --> 32:33.210]  This person be missing because they're no longer in power or just just complete read rewriting of of facts.
[32:33.630 --> 32:38.290]  And, you know, we just thought that was just crazy that that could happen.
[32:38.550 --> 32:47.870]  Of course, it's a Soviet Union, but it's happening here in the United States where the Supreme Court is is substantially changing their opinions opinions without telling anybody.
[32:48.430 --> 32:54.750]  And this is the highest court of this is the highest law of the land that is being changed under our noses.
[32:54.930 --> 32:56.590]  So I think this app is great.
[32:56.810 --> 33:03.430]  That is is I don't know if it's an app, but this this tool is great in that it's a tweeting out things and it might provide it.
[33:03.590 --> 33:10.670]  It might actually have a chilling effect on the court revising these opinions after the fact if they know that it's going to be publicized in real time.
[33:10.830 --> 33:11.930]  I like this a lot.
[33:12.470 --> 33:17.090]  It just goes to show the power of Twitter, things you can do if you just use a little imagination.
[33:17.230 --> 33:18.430]  Kyle, you have another talk for us?
[33:18.710 --> 33:19.330]  Yeah, I've got a couple.
[33:19.610 --> 33:19.930]  Oh, good.
[33:20.150 --> 33:22.270]  Yeah, this one looks really interesting.
[33:22.590 --> 33:25.510]  It's called Ergonomic Human Interface Hacking.
[33:26.290 --> 33:29.910]  And I really like this because I mean, a lot of people use touch screens now, right?
[33:30.050 --> 33:42.710]  It's pretty popular to, yeah, well, if your iPhone or whatever has touch sensitive stuff, that's pretty much how you type, how you click or, you know, whatever you do, whatever you call up on your phone.
[33:42.790 --> 33:46.090]  But this one talks about sort of the history and stuff like that.
[33:46.210 --> 33:50.130]  And it says, basically, do you experience numbness or weakness in your hands?
[33:50.270 --> 33:52.110]  Do you have a permanent case of Emacs Pinky?
[33:52.170 --> 33:52.930]  I don't know what that is.
[33:53.610 --> 33:54.290]  Emacs Pinky?
[33:54.350 --> 33:54.510]  Wow.
[33:54.650 --> 33:54.650]  Yeah.
[33:54.650 --> 33:56.890]  Are you playing VI Golf for your health?
[33:57.790 --> 33:59.110]  I think I've played that before.
[33:59.610 --> 34:06.070]  Since the release of the Macintosh, mainstream human computer interfaces have changed little and hardcore computer users are paying the price.
[34:06.750 --> 34:25.510]  This talk will examine potential solutions to the repetitive strain injuries commonly experienced by computer users, including things, neat things like head-based cursor control, ultra-ergo keyboards, not ego keyboards, and foot pedals and other kinds of optimizations.
[34:25.710 --> 34:35.430]  This is kind of a cousin of, I think, haptics, which is, you know, different forms of therapeutic use of a computer.
[34:35.550 --> 34:44.290]  But this is kind of the opposite, like not injuring yourself in the first place, or not having the right equipment to prevent injuries.
[34:44.710 --> 34:51.230]  So this could be really cool, because I think a lot of people still use older systems and are doing it wrong.
[34:51.370 --> 34:57.450]  Well, I happen to use VI, and I know you use VI as well, and I don't know how to play VI Golf, and I'd like to know how to do that.
[34:57.710 --> 35:00.070]  Yeah, I don't know if that's actually like... never mind.
[35:00.230 --> 35:00.410]  Anyway.
[35:01.090 --> 35:02.290]  VI is an editor.
[35:02.450 --> 35:04.610]  It's a text-based editor, and it's pretty awesome.
[35:04.850 --> 35:06.470]  It can do everything you want to do.
[35:06.630 --> 35:08.950]  You'll just have to go and see the talk and find out what it is.
[35:09.110 --> 35:09.150]  All right.
[35:09.290 --> 35:10.830]  I think I have to... I'm intrigued by that one.
[35:10.890 --> 35:13.390]  Now, another one that looks kind of cool is Crypto for Makers.
[35:13.990 --> 35:16.810]  Projects for the BeagleBone, Pi, and AVRs.
[35:17.450 --> 35:22.210]  Those are microcontroller variants and computers these days.
[35:22.330 --> 35:29.650]  But it says, as more devices join the Internet of Things, it is increasingly important that these devices remain protected from surveillance and compromise.
[35:32.010 --> 35:40.790]  This talk will show how to add specialized commercially available crypto-integrated circuits to improve the security of your BeagleBone, your Pi, or other AVR-based platform.
[35:41.550 --> 35:52.010]  Integrated circuits such as the trusted platform module, the I2C authentication chips, and hardware random number generators will be discussed.
[35:52.290 --> 35:59.390]  The CryptoCape, an open source hardware daughterboard made in collaboration with SparkFun and the presenter, will be presented in detail.
[36:00.250 --> 36:07.530]  They'll also describe running a Tor relay over a BeagleBone Black for quite a long time.
[36:07.750 --> 36:20.750]  So there's a lot of interesting things going on with microcontrollers, and now people are saying, hey, if I'm going to make this thing and it's going to be out there on the Internet as a thing doing a thing, then maybe it should be cryptographically secure,
[36:20.790 --> 36:21.970]  or at least I should consider that.
[36:22.410 --> 36:27.910]  I don't know if we've mentioned that the Hope Conference is taking place next month at the Hotel Pennsylvania in New York City.
[36:27.970 --> 36:28.870]  Probably haven't mentioned that fact.
[36:28.990 --> 36:30.530]  July 18th, 19th, and 20th.
[36:30.530 --> 36:34.050]  And you can register, get all kinds of information at x.hope.net.
[36:34.470 --> 36:44.450]  Do so before it fills up, because we're getting a lot of response, and we have so many incredible talks, and so many incredible surprises, which we'll be getting to in the future.
[36:44.570 --> 36:44.870]  Red Hecht.
[36:44.970 --> 36:49.710]  Yeah, I just wanted to comment on that talk, Kyleita, whatever it is, was talking about...
[36:51.230 --> 37:03.950]  Which was that, you know, as we've seen now with all of these leaks, it's obvious that anything that's not encrypted on the Internet is as open to snooping by the NSA and other government surveillance groups.
[37:04.410 --> 37:14.810]  And so, yes, with this explosion of kind of home circuits and things that makers are making, and even commercial products that use these chips, you know, it's important.
[37:14.990 --> 37:28.030]  The thing about crypto is that, you know, there is some overhead that happens, and that, generally, these microcontrollers are incapable of supporting that extra overhead to do the crypto, which is why then you would have custom-purpose chips for them to make it easier for them.
[37:28.190 --> 37:39.070]  But, yeah, that sounds really interesting, because that's the kind of thing that, if you have something and you're putting it on the Internet, which people like to do nowadays, and it's important to makers, then securing that is really important, so...
[37:39.070 --> 37:39.350]  Right.
[37:39.350 --> 37:46.710]  You don't want your, like, microcontroller or Christmas lights to then become a vulnerability for your house, because it's on the Internet.
[37:47.150 --> 37:47.550]  Yeah.
[37:47.910 --> 38:04.310]  One of the things I really love about Hope, I've loved it as an attendee, as a staff member, everything is just how many things, how many talks I've seen, and how many talks I'm seeing now on the current conference that just take the hacker mindset and point it in all sorts of other unexpected directions.
[38:04.570 --> 38:12.570]  I mean, in the past, we've had talks on, you know, hacking food, hacking sex, hacking all sorts of things, and now we've got hacking elevators, hacking your neighbor's TV.
[38:12.570 --> 38:13.650]  Oh, I got one for you, Rob.
[38:13.790 --> 38:15.150]  How about biohacking?
[38:15.310 --> 38:15.590]  Biohacking, yes.
[38:15.590 --> 38:19.790]  You know, there's a bunch of Canadian hackers coming down to show us what they're doing with biohacking.
[38:19.910 --> 38:23.870]  It's called Biohacking and DIY Biology North of the 45th Parallel.
[38:24.990 --> 38:30.690]  That's just so awesome in the title itself, but if you read the whole description, there's no way you want to miss that.
[38:30.830 --> 38:32.650]  Yeah, and just the variety of stuff that we've got going on.
[38:32.750 --> 38:40.590]  It's not, you know, it's not all sort of the, you know, computers, phones, security, data, all this, you know, hard sort of Hollywood-friendly hacker subjects.
[38:40.610 --> 38:46.030]  It's basically applying the hacker mindset to all sorts of other aspects of our lives and how we can do that.
[38:46.090 --> 38:48.910]  And there really is no limit to how awesome that stuff can be.
[38:49.030 --> 38:49.370]  That's right.
[38:50.050 --> 38:52.330]  Now, we mentioned that these are the talks.
[38:52.470 --> 38:56.390]  We have about 100 talks that we'll be presenting in total over the three days.
[38:56.570 --> 39:00.830]  Probably more if you count the unscheduled track and what goes on in workshops and things like that.
[39:00.930 --> 39:02.710]  But there is more than just the talks.
[39:03.110 --> 39:09.570]  Now, Kyle, I know you've been working on network stuff in addition, which is always fun and a challenge.
[39:10.150 --> 39:10.350]  Yeah.
[39:10.650 --> 39:11.870]  Anything you want to share about that?
[39:12.330 --> 39:13.150]  Oh, man.
[39:13.750 --> 39:15.190]  We only have a few minutes.
[39:16.010 --> 39:20.450]  There's always a lot of interest and we always have had network in the past.
[39:20.590 --> 39:22.390]  It's very common at these kinds of events.
[39:23.270 --> 39:32.210]  So we're going to have, yeah, basically an internal network and an uplink of sorts so that people can get out to the internet.
[39:33.110 --> 39:37.810]  And yeah, we are still accepting like sponsorships and donations.
[39:37.830 --> 39:40.970]  Anybody who's got gear, definitely like wireless stuff.
[39:40.970 --> 39:45.230]  We could always use more access points because there's a lot of wireless devices now.
[39:45.890 --> 39:48.910]  Um, and yeah, we'll have accommodations.
[39:48.910 --> 40:01.110]  If you want to bring your server or your mini computer or your abacus or whatever, we'll be able to lock it up for you and give you an IP and, and do those, those sorts of things.
[40:01.450 --> 40:18.430]  Um, and, uh, yeah, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll, uh, we'll give, I guess, uh, some more, more details as, as they come about, but we really are, um, we're getting, getting it down as far as design and, um, it, it will be, it will be, uh, substantial and,
[40:18.550 --> 40:23.410]  um, and, uh, a, a, uh, evolution of, of what we've had in the past.
[40:23.410 --> 40:34.090]  Um, but as we find out what exactly, um, where we're, uh, in need of some more supplies, we'll, we'll definitely be, um, speaking about that and see if anybody else wants to, uh, to be a part of our network.
[40:34.230 --> 40:35.470]  And you mentioned sponsorship.
[40:35.670 --> 40:49.190]  I, I should, uh, step in and just say a couple words about that, uh, because of, uh, the really, really bad timing of something that has happened to us at the magazine with our biggest distributor basically absconding so far with, uh, with a lot of money they owe us.
[40:49.330 --> 40:54.430]  Um, they shut their doors, fired all their employees, but they, they are not out of business and we are trying to get them to pay us.
[40:54.530 --> 41:04.910]  But if they don't pay us, then we pretty much have to, uh, um, we have to do all kinds of horrible things to get the funds we need to, um, uh, to get various necessities at home.
[41:05.030 --> 41:11.670]  So we are looking for people or entities that would like to, uh, sponsor us, but let me just point out, uh, this is not a corporate conference.
[41:11.830 --> 41:23.370]  We're not going to have, uh, um, big, uh, Microsoft banners or things like that or, or, or, or make it seem as if, uh, companies or, or, or governments or all kinds of other, other things are, are running this.
[41:23.510 --> 41:24.410]  This is a hacker conference.
[41:24.550 --> 41:25.110]  It always will be.
[41:25.250 --> 41:34.490]  But in the past, we have had organizations and companies help us with all kinds of things from bandwidth, uh, to supply of, uh, of hardware.
[41:35.070 --> 41:37.750]  Um, and, and that kind of thing can fit in.
[41:37.810 --> 41:44.150]  And in this particular case, in this particular year with this horrible, bad timing, uh, with our distributor problems, it might be a necessity.
[41:44.290 --> 41:45.470]  It might be the only way we can pull this off.
[41:45.550 --> 41:45.910]  We're hackers.
[41:46.010 --> 41:46.810]  We figure things out.
[41:46.950 --> 41:49.170]  We, uh, we will make this happen one way or another.
[41:49.170 --> 41:51.170]  This is a challenge that's being thrown right at us.
[41:51.290 --> 41:54.990]  And it's, uh, it's, it's particularly difficult, but we're going to meet that challenge one way or another.
[41:55.190 --> 41:57.570]  Can I just mention one thing about this in general?
[41:57.730 --> 42:00.690]  Uh, I would say, uh, it's not easy.
[42:00.910 --> 42:01.690]  This is hard.
[42:01.870 --> 42:03.050]  It's hard to do.
[42:03.210 --> 42:15.790]  Um, we're not, uh, we're building up, uh, our own infrastructure for, for more stuff in the future, but, um, getting even, even, uh, accepting, uh, help from, uh, different, different entities or organizations.
[42:16.030 --> 42:18.150]  It's hard to get everybody in agreement.
[42:18.150 --> 42:24.050]  I mean, we don't, we don't have like paid people that sit around and, and work just on this.
[42:24.050 --> 42:30.690]  We have to kind of delegate and get, get everybody who is available on top of something if somebody wants to help.
[42:30.810 --> 42:44.630]  And it's just, it's kind of, uh, it's, it's a real rodeo sometimes, uh, just to get stuff that people are offering, uh, set up and, and available, uh, let alone the things that we don't have research resources for.
[42:44.830 --> 43:02.510]  So, um, we're, we, we're, um, uh, really hopeful and, and excited about doing what we can, but we always need a little more organization, a little more help, uh, and especially putting together things like, like an ISP for thousands of people or, um, just generally paying for things that,
[43:02.550 --> 43:08.190]  that, um, are extra fun, um, and, and things maybe we haven't tried before, stuff like that.
[43:08.370 --> 43:10.270]  So we definitely, uh, could use help.
[43:10.270 --> 43:10.790]  Yeah.
[43:11.030 --> 43:14.010]  As a reminder, HOPE is really a volunteer driven conference.
[43:14.290 --> 43:16.150]  I mean, really, we rely on volunteers.
[43:16.290 --> 43:17.810]  All of the core staff are volunteers.
[43:18.550 --> 43:33.150]  And, uh, and so, you know, along these lines, if you can volunteer, uh, something to help with, with, uh, this particular, uh, need with the network or, you know, even if, if you, when you come to the conference, volunteer to help with, with all of the different positions that are available there,
[43:33.290 --> 43:35.490]  you know, there's always things like the info desk and...
[43:35.490 --> 43:35.990]  What's it called?
[43:36.210 --> 43:39.450]  There's a step beyond volunteer where you actually are paying to volunteer.
[43:39.450 --> 43:40.730]  That's where we're at right now.
[43:40.910 --> 43:43.470]  We're actually dipping into savings to pay for this thing.
[43:43.570 --> 43:45.870]  It's ridiculous, but we love doing it.
[43:45.950 --> 43:54.450]  And yeah, we could become, uh, a big corporate, uh, entity and, and charge thousands of dollars and have all the big companies there represented and, and make a mint.
[43:54.830 --> 44:01.410]  But I think we'd lose something precious and unique and something we've been doing since 1994, the very first conference.
[44:01.550 --> 44:05.630]  So hopefully, you know, if we can get through this one, I think we can get through just about anything.
[44:05.630 --> 44:08.370]  So if you can volunteer now, please volunteer now.
[44:08.510 --> 44:11.270]  And if you volunteer at the conference, please volunteer at the conference.
[44:11.470 --> 44:13.870]  Volunteers at hope.net is the, uh, is the address.
[44:14.070 --> 44:19.890]  And also if you're interested in sponsorships, sponsors at hope.net is an address that you can, uh, you can use for that.
[44:20.090 --> 44:20.230]  Yeah.
[44:20.290 --> 44:34.570]  And if you know, um, people in the industry or you have some, uh, contacts or you're curious about maybe how your organization could help if, if you're part of a peering company or a major or ISP or somebody who's got resources in the street out there,
[44:34.610 --> 44:40.870]  we would definitely like to speak with you and I'd be happy to share some more details about what we're doing technically and what we hope to do.
[44:41.070 --> 44:49.470]  We would like to increase some of our speeds and our capacity, both internally and insofar as how we communicate with the rest of the internet.
[44:49.670 --> 44:53.570]  Now, Bernie, I know you've been doing some work with securing some vendors for us.
[44:53.670 --> 44:57.310]  I don't know if there's any vendor tables left, but is there anything you want to share about that?
[44:57.910 --> 44:58.510]  Not many.
[44:58.650 --> 45:01.130]  I mean, some of our vendors are buying two and three tables.
[45:01.310 --> 45:04.170]  So, you know, we have 23 vendor tables.
[45:04.370 --> 45:06.490]  We don't want this to be like a giant trade show.
[45:06.830 --> 45:17.530]  This is just a small area in part of HOPE where people who have very specific products and services that are of interest to the hacker community can vend during HOPE.
[45:17.630 --> 45:22.990]  And a lot of people come to HOPE with money to spend while they happen to be in New York City.
[45:22.990 --> 45:27.950]  But there's also really cool hacker-ish things they can buy while they're at the conference.
[45:28.370 --> 45:38.110]  So this is not a commercial conference, but people who are interested in vending their product or service, they can send an inquiry to vendors at HOPE.net.
[45:38.310 --> 45:41.570]  I think we only have a handful of tables left.
[45:41.570 --> 45:44.710]  So if you're interested in that, please contact us.
[45:44.710 --> 45:49.650]  Thank you for giving out the email address, sponsors at HOPE.net, because that's what one of my questions was.
[45:49.950 --> 45:52.950]  And I have a favorite talk that I would like to talk about.
[45:53.030 --> 45:53.890]  Can I mention that real quick?
[45:54.010 --> 46:03.150]  Yes, but please let me also just point out that if you are applying to be a vendor, and I don't mean this in a nasty way, but we do have standards, okay?
[46:03.150 --> 46:06.910]  And we don't accept everybody who wants to be a vendor.
[46:07.130 --> 46:13.950]  For instance, unlike some conferences, we would not have an NSA recruiting table at HOPE.
[46:14.070 --> 46:16.730]  I don't think that is something we would ever do.
[46:17.390 --> 46:20.310]  But we're not that desperate.
[46:20.490 --> 46:21.590]  I don't think we are that desperate.
[46:21.710 --> 46:30.910]  But there are plenty of really, really good organizations, people, products even, that I think our audience would benefit from.
[46:30.910 --> 46:31.610]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[46:31.690 --> 46:33.630]  What is the talk that you want to highlight?
[46:33.830 --> 46:46.770]  Oh, one of the topics that listeners on Off the Hook and BAI really happen to be interested in a lot over the years is mobile phone, cell phone surveillance and being tracked on your cell phone.
[46:47.110 --> 46:59.430]  Our friend Matt Blaze, who's one of the key volunteers for HOPEX, has a talk called Geolocation, Location, Location, Technology and Countermeasures for Mobile Location Surveillance.
[47:00.030 --> 47:01.330]  And he's going to talk.
[47:02.610 --> 47:20.270]  We all know that law enforcement and private companies, they can track you through your mobile phone, but he's going to explain how this tracking actually works, how precise it is, when can they get this information from your phone, is there anything you can do to obscure your movements without putting yourself inside what's called a Faraday cage.
[47:20.890 --> 47:32.830]  He's going to go into the technical stuff, and nuts and bolts stuff, what you can do to help prevent the powers that be from surveilling you through your cell phone.
[47:33.070 --> 47:35.010]  Matt really knows what he's talking about.
[47:35.310 --> 47:40.510]  He's a PhD professor at the University of Pennsylvania, and this is his topic.
[47:40.510 --> 47:42.310]  This is what he knows about.
[47:42.550 --> 47:49.010]  So this is one of the hundred or so talks that will be at HOPE this year, HOPEX, that you really can't miss.
[47:49.130 --> 47:49.670]  It's good stuff.
[47:50.710 --> 47:51.070]  Absolutely.
[47:52.150 --> 47:52.930]  Hey, you know what?
[47:52.970 --> 47:54.330]  We have a little bit of time.
[47:54.430 --> 47:55.190]  Let's take some phone calls.
[47:55.270 --> 47:57.330]  212-209-2900.
[47:58.030 --> 48:02.430]  Please, though, I have not seen the Spain game, so don't tell me anything about whether or not they made it through.
[48:03.670 --> 48:14.750]  212-209-2900 if questions about the HOPE Conference or hacking in general, privacy, surveillance, all that kind of stuff.
[48:14.910 --> 48:18.870]  Our email address here at OffTheHook is OTH at 2600.com.
[48:18.990 --> 48:24.290]  We love hearing from our listeners, especially when they have something interesting to say, but even when they don't, we still love hearing from them.
[48:24.570 --> 48:26.090]  Let's take a phone call.
[48:26.170 --> 48:26.530]  Good evening.
[48:26.690 --> 48:27.570]  You're on OffTheHook.
[48:27.570 --> 48:28.530]  Oh, hi.
[48:28.910 --> 48:30.550]  I have a question.
[48:31.110 --> 48:33.990]  Sprint bought out Nextel a while ago.
[48:34.150 --> 48:40.950]  And with my Nextel phone, I was able to get phone calls in my cabin in the mountains in Colorado.
[48:41.490 --> 48:45.150]  Once they bought Nextel out, they shut the towers down.
[48:45.350 --> 48:47.030]  I have no phone service.
[48:47.550 --> 48:51.510]  Now they're going to buy another company, and I'm trying... T-Mobile, I believe.
[48:51.510 --> 48:58.930]  And I'm trying to find out who to complain to because, you know, this isn't right, what they do.
[48:59.670 --> 49:00.390]  I agree.
[49:00.490 --> 49:02.290]  Bernie, I think you were affected by this, were you not?
[49:02.890 --> 49:17.750]  Well, I was not a Nextel subscriber, but the so-called iDen technology that the Nextel network used was shut down by Sprint several years after they made the poor decision to buy it in the first place.
[49:17.870 --> 49:24.650]  They're completely incompatible networks, the Nextel iDen network and Sprint's CDMA network.
[49:24.730 --> 49:28.250]  And Sprint's CDMA network is completely incompatible with T-Mobile's GSM network.
[49:28.490 --> 49:28.930]  Exactly.
[49:29.150 --> 49:34.390]  So I don't know what... Well, of course, everything's moving over to LTE now, so it may be a better merger this time around.
[49:34.390 --> 49:34.830]  Who knows?
[49:34.930 --> 49:36.270]  But it won't be a good move for the consumers.
[49:41.570 --> 49:46.790]  I'm pretty happy with what T-Mobile has done recently as far as making it simple, lowering prices.
[49:47.230 --> 49:54.570]  I just went over to Europe and have not had any shocks to my system for using data all the time I was over there and making phone calls and sending texts.
[49:54.970 --> 49:59.870]  And I remember when I was a Sprint customer, every month would be something unpleasant.
[50:00.250 --> 50:04.230]  And it got to the point where they were demanding payment before the bill was even sent.
[50:04.950 --> 50:09.510]  A lot of unpleasant memories with Sprint, and I would dread them taking over.
[50:10.050 --> 50:20.110]  What's happening, though, is a just announcement came out this week that the name of the new company, should Sprint merge with T-Mobile, the name of the new company will be T-Mobile.
[50:20.290 --> 50:22.010]  So the Sprint brand will go away.
[50:22.330 --> 50:26.290]  Whether all of Sprint's policies will go away remains to be seen.
[50:26.470 --> 50:28.850]  Do you remember a company called Sprint Spectrum?
[50:29.370 --> 50:29.850]  Yes!
[50:30.190 --> 50:32.570]  That was a GSM company that Sprint ran.
[50:32.570 --> 50:36.810]  Yeah, it was like the first GSM carrier in the U.S., really.
[50:36.990 --> 50:38.330]  It was Sprint's first...
[50:38.330 --> 50:42.970]  It was called Sprint Spectrum, and they had this really funny advertising campaign.
[50:43.130 --> 50:48.430]  They sort of targeted their market to the credit-challenged people.
[50:48.750 --> 50:53.670]  But I remember they had a parrot promoting their product.
[50:53.970 --> 50:56.570]  But yeah, you were a subscriber for that, weren't you, for a while?
[50:57.250 --> 50:57.730]  Uh-huh.
[50:57.910 --> 50:58.650]  Yes, yes.
[50:58.970 --> 50:59.650]  A little bit.
[50:59.810 --> 51:07.050]  I try to subscribe to every phone company for, you know, a slight amount of time, just so I can learn how they work and how they don't work.
[51:07.430 --> 51:08.690]  We're talking mid-90s.
[51:08.770 --> 51:09.630]  It was like 20 years ago.
[51:09.770 --> 51:09.870]  Yeah.
[51:10.050 --> 51:17.890]  To answer the caller's question, you can send a comment to the FCC or to the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission, and ask them to block this merger.
[51:18.250 --> 51:19.170]  Maybe you'll succeed.
[51:19.170 --> 51:19.710]  I don't know.
[51:19.710 --> 51:29.590]  You know, these huge mergers tend to get blocked sometimes, and it's good to see, but your input definitely makes a big difference.
[51:29.770 --> 51:37.210]  I read an analysis, and who knows if it's right, that there are this issue and the net neutrality issue, and there's a third one, the cable company's merger.
[51:38.330 --> 51:51.670]  And the FCC, I guess, according to this uninformed comment, that the FCC doesn't want to stop them all because then they would just be in the pocket of the common person, which is something they just cannot appear to be.
[51:52.050 --> 51:57.710]  So we probably won't win on all the fronts, and who knows if we'll win on any.
[51:57.870 --> 51:58.410]  But maybe.
[51:58.650 --> 51:59.650]  It can't hurt to try.
[51:59.990 --> 52:00.250]  All right.
[52:00.330 --> 52:05.430]  Again, our phone number is 212-209-2900, and oddly enough, our phone lines are wide open.
[52:05.430 --> 52:13.870]  But while they're wide open, maybe, Kyle, you could explain what this sound, what this music is all about.
[52:14.690 --> 52:15.030]  Sure.
[52:15.290 --> 52:15.390]  Yeah.
[52:15.630 --> 52:23.350]  So this is often heard at Chaos Communication Congress, and we want to do something like this for Hope.
[52:24.290 --> 52:25.990]  Basically, it's intermission music.
[52:26.350 --> 52:34.930]  And so if anyone out there is doing, like, music production independently, and they would like to compose something, we would like to hear it.
[52:35.150 --> 52:42.750]  Because we want our own uniquely hope pause music for intermission when people are coming and going.
[52:42.970 --> 52:45.310]  And the reason we'd like it to be original...
[52:45.310 --> 52:46.450]  It's just so good.
[52:46.510 --> 52:47.510]  I keep wanting to turn it up.
[52:47.710 --> 52:57.230]  The reason we'd like it to be original is because when we put talks online, if it's commercial music, it's going to be flagged by YouTube.
[52:57.830 --> 52:58.730]  That's a problem.
[52:58.730 --> 53:00.390]  That is such a pain in the ass.
[53:00.530 --> 53:18.150]  I swear to God, we put up a video of somebody giving a great talk, and because there's five seconds of a song heard in the background, YouTube flags it, and we have to either edit it out or have a link to their advertising or something nasty like that.
[53:18.330 --> 53:24.870]  This enables us to bypass that if the music is not licensed to some big record company.
[53:24.870 --> 53:31.950]  So please, anybody who does this kind of stuff, independent music production, come up with something, send it to us.
[53:32.010 --> 53:33.970]  I don't know, a good address for this project.
[53:33.970 --> 53:39.650]  Well, for now, you can send it to the radio show address, since we haven't actually set up an email address.
[53:39.770 --> 53:42.870]  I don't know if we need an email address for this, but OTH at 2600.com.
[53:43.410 --> 53:48.710]  If you're a musician, you can come up with something that's not going to drive people insane if they hear it all the time.
[53:48.830 --> 53:50.250]  This never drove anybody insane.
[53:50.250 --> 53:56.490]  Something atmospheric, something, I don't know, it can be electronic or acoustic, whatever.
[53:56.770 --> 54:10.470]  We'd like to get a bunch of submissions and we want to pick something that's sort of copyright-free or usable in a lot of contexts because basically it'll be the bumps, the beginning and the end of any videos that we post online.
[54:10.470 --> 54:12.450]  And that's quite a bit of exposure.
[54:12.650 --> 54:20.490]  We'll give you credit where we can add it as far as comments and wherever is relevant.
[54:20.630 --> 54:24.830]  And thousands of people will be hearing this as they mill from one room to another.
[54:25.310 --> 54:27.970]  Will it be playing in all three rooms or how do they do it?
[54:28.030 --> 54:31.630]  Do they have different music in different rooms or the same music playing at different times in different rooms?
[54:31.830 --> 54:33.250]  I guess we can sort this out.
[54:33.350 --> 54:34.170]  You can do whatever you want.
[54:34.190 --> 54:35.450]  We can do whatever we want.
[54:35.450 --> 54:41.170]  But we'd like to come up with something like this that is uniquely ours and from our community.
[54:43.270 --> 54:50.890]  And something new, something that is specifically for hope and that we can use in at least the main room, if not others.
[54:51.150 --> 54:57.870]  And if there's a couple of different productions that work, we'll talk to our AV people, the people that help produce the actual event.
[54:58.270 --> 55:04.470]  And we'll use all of them, all of them that we really, really, really, really, really, really, really like.
[55:04.470 --> 55:10.710]  Yet another way to get involved in the Hackers on Planet Earth Conference next month here in New York City.
[55:11.230 --> 55:12.090]  Barney, what do you think of this?
[55:12.310 --> 55:12.770]  Can you hear it?
[55:12.810 --> 55:13.370]  I think it's great.
[55:13.470 --> 55:17.290]  It's kind of like Brian Eno's Music for Airports, except this is Music for Hacker Conferences.
[55:17.410 --> 55:17.850]  That's good.
[55:18.150 --> 55:19.490]  Yeah, Music for Hacker Conferences.
[55:19.590 --> 55:22.470]  I think that's an album we should put out, Music for Hacker Conferences.
[55:22.610 --> 55:29.710]  In fact, you know, we'll probably do a lot better with that than the actual Hacker Conference itself, just putting out albums.
[55:30.610 --> 55:31.470]  Okay, you know what?
[55:31.490 --> 55:33.310]  I'm not sure we can take these phone calls.
[55:33.450 --> 55:34.310]  We're kind of out of time.
[55:34.470 --> 55:36.750]  The personal computer people are already at the door.
[55:38.110 --> 55:39.470]  But this is a great idea, though.
[55:39.530 --> 55:45.430]  This is something I would like to hear at HopeX, definitely.
[55:45.910 --> 55:50.650]  So write to us, OTH at 26Hermons.com if you're a musician, and you can supply us with something.
[55:50.770 --> 55:58.030]  It should be about 10 minutes long, I guess, and not have vocals and not have sounds like chalk on a blackboard that might drive people crazy or anything like that.
[55:58.270 --> 56:03.730]  Yeah, because if we don't get anything usable beforehand, I'm going to have to go up on stage with my bagpipes, and that won't be good for anyone.
[56:03.730 --> 56:07.010]  Yeah, that's always something that causes problems.
[56:07.730 --> 56:11.530]  Okay, our email address, once again, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:11.810 --> 56:15.150]  We'll be back next week with more exciting information.
[56:15.270 --> 56:20.310]  Keep checking the Hope website, x.hope.net, for updates, and there will be updates.
[56:20.430 --> 56:23.750]  There will be all kinds of updates and announcements and things like that.
[56:25.330 --> 56:26.410]  And we'll see you next time.
[56:26.490 --> 56:26.650]  Good night.