[00:00.000 --> 00:01.260]  Rent at the Commons.
[00:01.600 --> 00:09.880]  For a sliding scale requested donation, you'll get dinner, entertainment by Spirit Child and others, and good conversation with like-minded folks.
[00:10.160 --> 00:13.660]  Again, that's Saturday, July 5th from 4 to 8 p.m.
[00:13.900 --> 00:20.720]  For more information, call Resistance in Brooklyn at 718-399-8366.
[00:20.860 --> 00:24.800]  That's 718-399-8366.
[00:25.040 --> 00:26.840]  Help keep BAI alive.
[00:30.940 --> 00:33.000]  And WBAI is still alive.
[00:33.100 --> 00:34.840]  This is WBAI New York.
[00:35.020 --> 00:38.040]  It's 7 o'clock on a Wednesday time for Off the Hook.
[00:43.340 --> 00:45.280]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:45.620 --> 00:47.800]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:48.800 --> 00:50.800]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:51.340 --> 00:53.300]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:53.960 --> 00:55.920]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:59.640 --> 01:01.600]  But the best is paid for worse.
[01:02.180 --> 01:04.120]  I hope that's understood.
[01:04.480 --> 01:05.060]  But did it move!
[02:22.640 --> 02:25.180]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:25.180 --> 02:27.180]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:27.280 --> 02:30.160]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Mike.
[02:30.160 --> 02:31.020]  Good evening.
[02:31.360 --> 02:31.920]  Rob T.
[02:32.140 --> 02:32.700]  Firefly.
[02:32.900 --> 02:33.300]  Good evening.
[02:33.620 --> 02:33.940]  Kyle.
[02:34.360 --> 02:34.900]  Hi there.
[02:35.540 --> 02:36.980]  And Bernie S.
[02:38.020 --> 02:39.580]  Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[02:39.840 --> 02:41.660]  On the Comrex system there.
[02:41.860 --> 02:49.380]  So everybody sounds... well, we sound kind of good in here, but I understand if you're listening on the radio, we might sound kind of crappy.
[02:49.380 --> 02:54.640]  And that's because... that's because of... I'm told that's Verizon.
[02:55.320 --> 03:00.820]  They installed static on our line, which we did not ask for, and we are attempting to have it removed.
[03:00.960 --> 03:06.960]  So if you're listening to us in your car, don't try and drive into the fast lane thinking you'll get a better signal.
[03:06.960 --> 03:09.700]  If you're in the house, don't hold the radio over your head and jump up and down.
[03:09.760 --> 03:10.360]  It's not going to help.
[03:10.360 --> 03:15.800]  Well, I'm not sure if people on the stream are hearing... if they hear us, how we sound there.
[03:16.580 --> 03:18.820]  The theory is that they probably sound crappy too.
[03:19.000 --> 03:22.800]  But if you're listening to us on the archive, we don't sound bad at all.
[03:22.900 --> 03:25.860]  And the reason for that is because we record the archive here in the studio.
[03:26.100 --> 03:29.060]  Well, we might sound bad, but it'll be the content of what we say.
[03:29.100 --> 03:29.720]  In a different way.
[03:29.800 --> 03:29.940]  Yeah.
[03:30.160 --> 03:34.000]  So you will never hear static on the archive.
[03:34.620 --> 03:38.060]  I'd rather that we did hear exactly how it went over the air on the archive.
[03:38.060 --> 03:41.160]  We can just get a CD of some white noise and play it under us.
[03:41.260 --> 03:41.320]  Yeah, but it's not the same.
[03:41.320 --> 03:42.900]  It's not the same kind of...
[03:42.900 --> 03:43.560]  But anyway, yeah.
[03:43.680 --> 03:48.780]  So that's what's happening on the radio in case you're confused, in case you're wondering what's going on there.
[03:49.240 --> 03:51.740]  There's also talk of BAI moving its transmitter.
[03:51.840 --> 03:52.920]  Yeah, we've moved everything else.
[03:53.560 --> 03:55.680]  We've moved our studio up to Harlem.
[03:55.840 --> 03:57.480]  We've moved our staff out into the street.
[03:57.660 --> 04:01.220]  We've moved just about everything we can think of moving except the transmitter.
[04:01.600 --> 04:05.220]  And to save a lot of money, there's talk of moving it to Times Square.
[04:06.380 --> 04:09.180]  Not even raised up, just holding it on the street.
[04:09.380 --> 04:11.720]  No one has ever saved money by going to Times Square.
[04:12.420 --> 04:15.300]  Well... I mean, I guess it's... unless it's like the half price tickets.
[04:15.500 --> 04:20.120]  There's some kind of a two-for-one deal with some 99-cent store or something.
[04:20.180 --> 04:23.400]  I don't know how it's going to work exactly, but it's all about saving money.
[04:23.500 --> 04:27.060]  And that's what we're trying to do here at the radio station and somehow get a signal out there as well.
[04:27.900 --> 04:29.980]  But you know, in the end, the archive always sounds good.
[04:30.140 --> 04:33.620]  So it doesn't really matter where we broadcast from if you listen to us in the future.
[04:34.500 --> 04:34.980]  Right.
[04:35.180 --> 04:35.320]  Okay.
[04:35.800 --> 04:45.200]  You know, Bernie, I'd like to ask you this question because all day long I've been remembering an incident that you had many years ago when you were locked up in prison.
[04:45.900 --> 04:56.260]  And you had just managed to bean one of the leading mobsters in the Northeast with the top of a garbage can lid.
[04:56.320 --> 04:57.660]  And this was accidental, by the way.
[04:57.760 --> 04:59.420]  You didn't have a hit out on him or anything like that.
[04:59.500 --> 05:04.580]  But basically you dropped the... Somehow you dropped a garbage, a metal garbage can lid onto his head from the second floor.
[05:05.120 --> 05:07.880]  And you had a... You remember that, right, Bernie?
[05:08.840 --> 05:10.320]  I remember it very well.
[05:10.420 --> 05:10.620]  Okay.
[05:10.700 --> 05:15.700]  Well, I remember you describing to me afterwards... Actually, I think this is in Freedom Downtime, too.
[05:15.740 --> 05:16.900]  I think you described it there as well.
[05:17.500 --> 05:26.780]  You had sort of a feeling of calm afterwards because you realized that all the things that you're worried about no longer matters because your life is about to end.
[05:26.800 --> 05:28.520]  So nothing matters anymore.
[05:28.740 --> 05:30.920]  Remember that feeling of kind of peacefulness?
[05:31.100 --> 05:33.160]  I remember it vividly.
[05:33.260 --> 05:44.200]  It felt like all the stress, which I had a lot of because I didn't know when I was getting out of jail, federal prison, it just suddenly just left me because everything was respective.
[05:44.380 --> 05:45.560]  It's like, all right, my life's over.
[05:45.760 --> 05:52.660]  I can't survive this after whacking the mob head's head and making him bleed.
[05:52.660 --> 05:53.700]  I thought, I'm a dead man.
[05:53.840 --> 05:56.560]  I even had people walk up to me right after and say, well, it's nice knowing you.
[05:57.280 --> 06:04.640]  And seriously, it was... So there's probably... Are you feeling a similar situation with everything going on?
[06:04.700 --> 06:06.000]  I am feeling a very similar situation.
[06:06.200 --> 06:14.760]  I've been flirting with this all day, actually, because we found out early this morning, we've talked about this last couple of weeks with our major distributor closing its doors.
[06:14.940 --> 06:26.340]  We found out that just, I believe, yesterday, they filed for bankruptcy, meaning that we're not going to see a penny of the nearly 100 grand that they owe us, meaning that we are facing some very perilous times.
[06:27.180 --> 06:32.700]  The thing that really gets me... And we put out a post today, and this post has been picked up all over the internet.
[06:33.400 --> 06:36.280]  I've had so much fun on Twitter today, just reading all the responses.
[06:36.860 --> 06:43.800]  But basically, what's different here... And stay with me here, because I'm about to delve into corporate logic.
[06:44.300 --> 06:47.800]  And corporate logic is like this alternative way of looking at reality.
[06:48.460 --> 06:52.740]  There was a company called Source Interlink, which distributed magazines.
[06:52.980 --> 06:56.000]  And we were unfortunate enough to do business with them.
[06:56.840 --> 07:02.180]  There was a sister corporation that was basically... I don't know if it was next door or whatever.
[07:02.320 --> 07:03.140]  They just split in two.
[07:03.240 --> 07:05.060]  But it was also called Source Interlink.
[07:05.220 --> 07:06.780]  And they published magazines.
[07:06.780 --> 07:10.580]  And I assume that they gave them to the other Source Interlink to distribute.
[07:10.700 --> 07:11.460]  I don't know how it worked.
[07:11.820 --> 07:14.980]  But one Source Interlink closed its doors.
[07:15.080 --> 07:17.180]  One Source Source Interlink didn't.
[07:17.660 --> 07:22.320]  Now, in my naive view, I feel that's the same company.
[07:22.520 --> 07:26.080]  I feel that's basically... One should be responsible for the other.
[07:26.160 --> 07:26.540]  They don't.
[07:26.620 --> 07:37.800]  In fact, what they did was, as soon as they fired all their employees at Source Interlink number one, Source Interlink number two decided to change their name to The Enthusiast Network.
[07:38.280 --> 07:40.180]  It's one of the dumbest names I've ever heard.
[07:40.180 --> 07:44.000]  Can I form a rival organization for people who are just sort of blasé?
[07:44.360 --> 07:44.900]  Well, yeah.
[07:45.000 --> 07:45.540]  You're welcome to.
[07:45.720 --> 07:49.900]  And you won't find many members here because a lot of people are pretty fired up about this.
[07:50.720 --> 07:53.360]  So basically, they've rebranded.
[07:53.420 --> 07:54.260]  That's what they call it.
[07:54.300 --> 07:55.100]  They rebranded.
[07:55.880 --> 07:57.840]  They're launching all kinds of new projects.
[07:57.840 --> 07:58.900]  They're hiring people.
[07:59.000 --> 08:00.180]  They're doing all kinds of things.
[08:00.940 --> 08:07.740]  And their other half is saying, you know, we're not responsible for any of the debt that we've incurred and we're not paying anybody.
[08:07.980 --> 08:08.480]  Tough luck.
[08:09.080 --> 08:11.780]  Now, you know, that's very different than a corporation just going out of business.
[08:12.080 --> 08:12.380]  All right.
[08:12.460 --> 08:13.580]  That sucks too.
[08:13.720 --> 08:19.600]  But it's extremely different when you have another half of it that still exists and is doing well.
[08:19.780 --> 08:26.860]  And they work together because it was on the very same day that they closed their doors in the first one that they rebranded the second one.
[08:26.940 --> 08:29.300]  So obviously, they're working in cahoots.
[08:29.680 --> 08:38.860]  And our position, and this is what is on the main page of 2600.com right now and being tweeted all over the place, our position is that they are responsible.
[08:39.100 --> 08:40.200]  They're responsible for these debts.
[08:40.760 --> 08:49.800]  And it's, you know, legally, legally, they probably can get away with it because in the corporate world, the corporate world rules this country, you can say things like that.
[08:49.920 --> 08:50.980]  You can say things like that.
[08:51.160 --> 08:58.980]  You know, I can basically go and rob a store as Emanuel Goldstein and say, all right, that Emanuel Goldstein robbed the store.
[08:59.160 --> 09:01.480]  But this Emanuel Goldstein had nothing to do with it, you know.
[09:01.680 --> 09:06.420]  And since corporations are basically people in the eyes of the law, it's not that far-fetched.
[09:06.500 --> 09:09.940]  I'm going to split myself in two, have an evil side and a good side.
[09:10.040 --> 09:12.220]  And the good side is not going to be responsible for the evil side.
[09:12.340 --> 09:15.880]  In this particular case, it was the incompetent side versus the savvy side.
[09:16.040 --> 09:21.280]  But whatever, the right thing to do is to honor the debts that you incur.
[09:21.360 --> 09:24.480]  And that's something, you know, we are facing all kinds of problems now.
[09:24.480 --> 09:26.660]  We've been talking about this pretty much all day.
[09:27.120 --> 09:29.760]  And we're not going to do the same thing.
[09:30.040 --> 09:32.220]  If it takes us 10 years to pay off our debts, we'll pay off.
[09:33.020 --> 09:34.100]  It's just the right thing.
[09:34.440 --> 09:38.560]  You don't walk away from people or entities that you owe.
[09:38.660 --> 09:38.800]  Rob?
[09:39.120 --> 09:51.940]  If you really want to get away with robbing that store, I think what you have to do based on what's going on here is put on a yellow t-shirt and then rob the store and then change to a blue t-shirt because obviously the guy who robbed the store was wearing a yellow shirt,
[09:52.040 --> 09:52.660]  so it couldn't be you.
[09:52.800 --> 09:53.060]  Yeah.
[09:53.280 --> 09:56.380]  There's all kinds of... I'm looking for some analogies here.
[09:56.600 --> 09:57.440]  Analogies would be good.
[09:57.440 --> 10:01.640]  I mean, it doesn't work that way because, you know, human people just can't do that sort of thing.
[10:01.840 --> 10:01.980]  Not yet.
[10:02.280 --> 10:03.900]  But corporate people, they're magical.
[10:04.220 --> 10:04.380]  Yeah.
[10:04.540 --> 10:06.020]  That seems to be the way it is.
[10:06.640 --> 10:10.300]  And, you know, I know there's all kinds of negative reaction.
[10:10.560 --> 10:12.740]  People say, yeah, it's not realistic to even try this.
[10:12.940 --> 10:13.740]  But you know what?
[10:13.900 --> 10:15.600]  We have nothing to lose at this point.
[10:15.620 --> 10:17.240]  We really don't have anything to lose.
[10:17.540 --> 10:21.080]  So we want to shame these people at the Enthusiast Network.
[10:21.360 --> 10:22.080]  Am I getting it right?
[10:22.160 --> 10:22.820]  The Enthusiast Network?
[10:22.820 --> 10:23.020]  Yeah.
[10:23.540 --> 10:26.880]  To at least address the issue.
[10:27.000 --> 10:32.780]  They have not even had the decency to address this as if it's anything they have to be concerned about.
[10:33.380 --> 10:38.000]  So it's a rough road ahead.
[10:38.000 --> 10:43.000]  That's one we have to travel on because of the way other businesses operate.
[10:43.000 --> 10:43.000]  Right.
[10:43.600 --> 10:53.080]  But fortunately, on our post on 2600.com, we've also got links because the Enthusiast Network, being the enthusiasts that they are, they have a bunch of online presences.
[10:53.800 --> 10:54.600]  They're on LinkedIn.
[10:54.600 --> 10:55.420]  They're on Twitter.
[10:55.920 --> 10:57.100]  They're on all these other things.
[10:57.220 --> 11:00.420]  And you can find the links to these on 2600.com.
[11:00.540 --> 11:04.040]  And you can let them know if you don't like the way they're doing things.
[11:04.040 --> 11:08.860]  You know, I was just watching Twitter earlier today, and it's just every second.
[11:09.560 --> 11:12.180]  The folks at Anonymous retweeted this for us.
[11:12.360 --> 11:13.740]  We thank them tremendously.
[11:14.040 --> 11:18.720]  As we said on Twitter, they have more honor than the entire publishing industry put together.
[11:19.580 --> 11:32.100]  It's incredible to see the reaction, to see people expressing their indignation and voting with their wallets, saying, you know, I see all the magazines that the Enthusiast Network publishes.
[11:32.220 --> 11:33.680]  I'm not going to buy any of those anymore.
[11:33.960 --> 11:35.880]  You know, what's good for the goose, whatever.
[11:36.120 --> 11:38.700]  You guys are not treating people fairly.
[11:38.860 --> 11:40.180]  And you know, we're not the only ones.
[11:40.300 --> 11:45.140]  Obviously, there are all kinds of zines that are affected by this, all kinds of businesses that are affected by this.
[11:45.300 --> 11:47.080]  Even Time Incorporated.
[11:47.360 --> 11:51.260]  Yeah, well, they can probably afford the loss, but they were owed millions by these people.
[11:51.500 --> 11:53.880]  They actually kind of precipitated this.
[11:53.960 --> 11:59.800]  I can't say I blame them, but they withdrew from supplying Source Interlink with magazines.
[12:00.060 --> 12:04.300]  And that's what prompted Source Interlink to say, okay, that's it for us then.
[12:04.920 --> 12:08.800]  So, everybody has been affected in one way or another.
[12:09.720 --> 12:18.900]  The thing is, with us having a conference coming up in just a couple of weeks, bad timing, and it's making our lives extremely difficult.
[12:19.480 --> 12:22.280]  And I've been reduced to the state of volunteer right now.
[12:22.440 --> 12:27.420]  So, I'm always crazy to be working on these things, but now I'm just doing it for free.
[12:27.880 --> 12:31.180]  And, well, that's the way it has to go for now, anyway.
[12:33.020 --> 12:33.860]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[12:35.280 --> 12:38.480]  Do you remember back of those old movies, like, It's a Wonderful Life?
[12:39.020 --> 12:42.760]  There were things called, during the Depression, called a bank run.
[12:43.300 --> 13:02.600]  So, the situation you just described to me, where Time saw that this company was, this magazine distributor was on shaky ground, and they pulled out their business, or their money, and then it basically left at least that side of the business high and dry.
[13:02.840 --> 13:05.140]  It reminds me of a bank run sort of situation.
[13:05.300 --> 13:13.220]  But in this case, the company is still running fine with its bad stepchild that it just gave birth to.
[13:14.980 --> 13:15.600]  Bad analogy.
[13:15.600 --> 13:17.280]  But no, Bernie, it's a different company.
[13:17.440 --> 13:19.420]  Yes, it had the same name, but it's a different company.
[13:19.500 --> 13:20.140]  They're not responsible.
[13:20.800 --> 13:22.120]  How do you do that in real life?
[13:22.220 --> 13:22.960]  How do you do that?
[13:22.960 --> 13:24.120]  I want to learn this.
[13:24.300 --> 13:30.320]  I want to learn how I can do something and then use my same name and get away with it, and be treated as if I never did that.
[13:30.380 --> 13:31.580]  There's got to be a legal maneuver.
[13:32.000 --> 13:37.260]  You have to hire a bunch of lawyers first, and then they'll make some stuff up, and it might work.
[13:37.520 --> 13:38.740]  Do they have more lawyers than you?
[13:38.840 --> 13:40.320]  I think they have many more lawyers.
[13:40.480 --> 13:41.000]  Oh, you're in trouble.
[13:41.080 --> 13:41.900]  Yeah, I think.
[13:42.260 --> 13:43.920]  Well, we're already in trouble.
[13:44.360 --> 13:46.840]  You know, people are saying, you know, you're going to get them upset.
[13:47.080 --> 13:47.840]  Then they're going to come after you.
[13:47.840 --> 13:49.040]  They've already taken our money.
[13:49.060 --> 13:49.940]  What are they going to do next?
[13:50.480 --> 13:51.460]  Come on, folks.
[13:51.780 --> 13:58.940]  Yeah, sometimes you have to speak up and be a little fly in the ointment to get any kind of reaction.
[13:59.200 --> 13:59.300]  Rob?
[13:59.500 --> 14:04.580]  So, just to explain it to listeners who might not have the ability to look at the website right now or whatever.
[14:05.500 --> 14:11.120]  So, this was two issues of the magazine that was distributed through Source 10.
[14:11.920 --> 14:12.580]  Source Interlink.
[14:12.600 --> 14:13.580]  Source Interlink, rather.
[14:13.600 --> 14:15.300]  You're mixing up the names, which is what they want you to do.
[14:15.400 --> 14:15.400]  Yes.
[14:16.120 --> 14:17.780]  They were distributed by Source Interlink.
[14:18.420 --> 14:20.880]  Source Interlink put them on the shelves, collected the money for them.
[14:20.880 --> 14:21.900]  They're still collecting the money.
[14:21.960 --> 14:27.300]  If you go out to Barnes & Noble right now and you buy the spring issue, none of that money will go to us.
[14:27.380 --> 14:27.920]  It will go to them.
[14:28.060 --> 14:29.360]  It will go to that company.
[14:29.940 --> 14:33.820]  I'm not saying don't buy it because, well, it doesn't make a difference.
[14:34.120 --> 14:34.220]  Right.
[14:34.320 --> 14:36.920]  So, this isn't some bill that 2600 has run up or anything.
[14:37.120 --> 14:39.160]  It's money that is owed to 2600.
[14:39.160 --> 14:39.300]  Right.
[14:39.320 --> 14:41.860]  And because they haven't paid us, now we are going to be in debt.
[14:41.860 --> 14:44.600]  And now we have to face all kinds of unpleasant things.
[14:44.760 --> 14:47.100]  And also, being a quarterly magazine, two issues, that's half a year.
[14:47.100 --> 14:48.060]  It is half a year.
[14:48.360 --> 14:49.880]  And that is how it works.
[14:49.940 --> 14:55.020]  That is what we are forced to accept because no distributor will give you a better deal than that.
[14:55.180 --> 14:56.860]  And this has happened to us before.
[14:57.280 --> 14:59.620]  1997 was the last major time that happened.
[14:59.780 --> 15:02.700]  It nearly drove us out of business, took us a year to recover.
[15:03.260 --> 15:04.940]  And that was after a conference, too.
[15:05.060 --> 15:07.000]  This is before a conference, so it's even more difficult.
[15:07.500 --> 15:12.800]  I am really moved and blown away by the support we've been seeing online.
[15:12.800 --> 15:20.800]  And I know this community is not going to let us completely fail, but it's a mountain we have to climb.
[15:21.500 --> 15:24.460]  And I think we'll figure something out.
[15:24.640 --> 15:31.340]  But, Bernie, as I was saying, yeah, you know, I've been seeing that vision all day of just, you know what, it doesn't matter anymore.
[15:31.840 --> 15:32.920]  It's so crazy.
[15:32.920 --> 15:36.760]  It's so hopeless that all these challenges, just it doesn't make a difference.
[15:37.200 --> 15:38.980]  What's going to happen is going to happen.
[15:39.140 --> 15:43.340]  And there's not much that I can do as a person about it.
[15:43.460 --> 15:44.500]  We'll see where it goes.
[15:44.840 --> 15:45.540]  We'll see where it goes.
[15:45.840 --> 15:49.860]  And I'm kind of watching it with a detachment, which I'm not used to having.
[15:50.700 --> 15:52.640]  But it'll be, it'll be, it'll be kind of interesting.
[15:52.860 --> 15:53.380]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[15:54.840 --> 15:56.280]  You're a filmmaker, isn't that right?
[15:56.780 --> 15:57.820]  Well, that's debatable.
[15:57.980 --> 15:59.420]  I mean, I made one film.
[15:59.640 --> 16:03.180]  Well, you've made, you've made some, you just mentioned Freedom Downtime earlier in the show.
[16:03.480 --> 16:04.820]  And I thought it was a great film.
[16:05.700 --> 16:10.400]  And I'm sure you probably remember the documentary that Michael Moore made called Roger and Me.
[16:10.600 --> 16:11.280]  I certainly do.
[16:11.800 --> 16:16.260]  Who's the guy, who's the guy that is behind this magazine distributor?
[16:17.200 --> 16:19.140]  Who's the guy behind the magazine distributor?
[16:19.480 --> 16:20.280]  Yeah, who's the guy?
[16:20.420 --> 16:23.280]  I mean, some guy basically made this decision to do this stuff.
[16:23.400 --> 16:25.880]  Some guy at the top who's profiting from this scam.
[16:26.080 --> 16:26.680]  That's a good question.
[16:26.820 --> 16:35.380]  Maybe like, maybe something in order like, like the movie Roger and Me, where Michael Moore was chasing down the guy from Ford Motor Company, or was it General Motors?
[16:35.380 --> 16:43.200]  I guess it was, to, you know, ask him questions as to, you know, why did you leave all these people high and dry financially?
[16:44.260 --> 16:46.600]  How about just make a film called Where's My Money?
[16:46.660 --> 16:49.040]  And just chase this guy mercilessly all around the world?
[16:49.200 --> 16:55.260]  I'm just saying that the publishing community should probably find out where this guy lives and interview him.
[16:55.500 --> 16:57.260]  Oh boy, apparently you can't say that.
[16:57.260 --> 16:58.100]  Where's my money?
[16:58.260 --> 16:58.440]  Yeah.
[16:59.000 --> 17:00.100]  Hey, no, that's not a threat.
[17:00.340 --> 17:03.420]  Hey, I will visit you and say, where's my money?
[17:03.420 --> 17:08.100]  Well, corporate America is getting in the way of your, your voice now and preventing you from saying what you really mean.
[17:08.440 --> 17:09.660]  But I think it's a good idea.
[17:09.780 --> 17:11.020]  I think they do need to be confronted.
[17:11.160 --> 17:12.240]  I don't think it's one guy though.
[17:12.380 --> 17:13.640]  I think it's, it's a mentality.
[17:13.860 --> 17:17.200]  I think it's a whole group of people and they all need to be confronted.
[17:17.640 --> 17:17.860]  Kyle.
[17:18.420 --> 17:48.340]  I just wanted to point out that like what you meant particularly with like this time of year when we're planning the event, hope X, a lot of our work, not only in time, but in investment goes into the conference and it takes money to place orders and rent things and do all kinds of event planning type stuff that is not necessarily what we do as a publisher day to day.
[17:48.640 --> 18:01.660]  So these costs really impacts everybody, whether it's something short term, like the event planning or something longer term during the year, like filming and other projects that we've invested in.
[18:01.900 --> 18:12.880]  So it's going to have a pretty immediate impact on just our ability to create a really fun event, have extra, um, projects and things to show off.
[18:13.200 --> 18:29.200]  Um, that flexibility really allows us to create some, some magic with hope X and, and, um, that's not only going to be evident at the conference if we don't get some help, but also in other, our other projects, like what we can bring to this radio show even,
[18:29.400 --> 18:33.020]  um, and other, uh, side things that we, we like to do.
[18:33.460 --> 18:44.220]  Somebody, um, somebody asked on Twitter a couple of hours ago, uh, if, uh, this would affect the conference adversely or would cancel the conference or something horrible like that.
[18:44.340 --> 18:48.540]  And our response was that, uh, the conference is going to happen even if we have to rob banks.
[18:48.640 --> 18:57.900]  And I just want to step in and clarify that statement that that was a joke that, uh, we don't actually go around robbing banks, even though that's how the mass media might, uh, think of us.
[18:58.320 --> 19:04.500]  But, uh, I, I do believe that statement indicates our resolve to get through this no matter what.
[19:04.720 --> 19:07.560]  And the conference is going to be 100% what it's meant to be.
[19:07.820 --> 19:10.120]  Uh, we're going to do everything that we want to do.
[19:10.340 --> 19:17.980]  Uh, we might have to pay the piper afterwards for a very, very long time, but, uh, we're not going to, um, uh, to cheat anyone out of this.
[19:18.260 --> 19:20.360]  Uh, it's, it's going to be an amazing event.
[19:20.520 --> 19:25.960]  Uh, and it is coming up, but before we, uh, we, we get into details on, on the conference, I just have some late breaking news.
[19:26.120 --> 19:30.100]  Uh, I was, I've been monitoring the Enthusiast Network's Twitter account.
[19:30.280 --> 19:34.300]  And a lot of people have today, actually, their Twitter name is, is 10 Enthusiast.
[19:34.400 --> 19:37.840]  T-E-N-E-N-T-H-U-S-I-A-S-T.
[19:38.180 --> 19:39.280]  It's a ridiculous name.
[19:39.460 --> 19:45.440]  Uh, and they just, uh, we've been waiting for them to respond to, uh, our allegations, our requests, our anger.
[19:45.860 --> 19:52.980]  And just now they've, they've tweeted, uh, Chevrolet teamed up with the Enthusiast Network to see how far our tuna brands can push a Sonic.
[19:53.180 --> 19:53.600]  Check it out.
[19:53.720 --> 19:54.240]  And they have a video.
[19:54.800 --> 19:58.640]  Now, I don't think that's a veiled, uh, response to anything that we had to say.
[19:59.220 --> 20:06.020]  Uh, they also have asked their fans to help create the ultimate 370Z track car and vote on a car to compete against it.
[20:06.340 --> 20:20.820]  There are all kinds of tweets here about how they're promoting things and starting things and making a lot of money with all their various projects and endeavors, but not a word, not a word about, uh, about what they've done to, uh, people like us.
[20:20.820 --> 20:22.660]  Oh, that's a picture of a Ferrari they tweeted.
[20:22.800 --> 20:23.320]  That's nice.
[20:23.600 --> 20:24.800]  And, uh, what's this a Chevy?
[20:25.040 --> 20:25.900]  Uh, is that a Mustang?
[20:26.200 --> 20:27.820]  You know, it doesn't matter what kind of car it is.
[20:28.320 --> 20:30.720]  Yeah, we could have, that car is what they owe us.
[20:30.860 --> 20:31.480]  How about that?
[20:31.760 --> 20:32.060]  Yeah.
[20:33.100 --> 20:38.940]  I don't know if they bought the car, but, uh, okay, but let's get back to, uh, to the things that we really want to be talking about.
[20:39.200 --> 20:43.240]  Uh, the Hope Conference is coming up in just, um, oh, Bernie, you have a counter going over there, don't you?
[20:43.280 --> 20:43.900]  How long is it?
[20:45.560 --> 20:51.820]  Uh, you know, I haven't looked exactly, but I think we're, uh, let's see, it starts on July 18th and today is what?
[20:51.940 --> 20:52.740]  The 25th?
[20:52.860 --> 20:53.600]  I have no idea.
[20:53.880 --> 20:54.600]  So that's about 23 days away.
[20:54.700 --> 20:55.360]  Is it the 25th?
[20:55.460 --> 20:55.620]  Okay.
[20:56.120 --> 20:58.920]  Um, yeah, I guess it's about 23, 24 days away.
[20:59.040 --> 20:59.820]  It's coming up.
[20:59.920 --> 21:03.700]  And, um, we actually, we have, uh, the schedule made up.
[21:03.700 --> 21:05.640]  It's not posted yet because we're still tweaking it.
[21:05.820 --> 21:14.560]  But, um, if you look online, you will see 99% of the talks that have, uh, been finalized.
[21:14.660 --> 21:18.120]  I say 99% because we still have, uh, some pretty big surprises coming up.
[21:18.400 --> 21:28.300]  Um, and, um, go to x.hope.net and click on schedule and you will see all sorts of amazing, fascinating, interesting things.
[21:28.420 --> 21:35.140]  I suggest you don't do this or you don't start reading it until after our show because you'll be so completely distracted and amazed by what is there.
[21:35.340 --> 21:44.300]  Uh, Bernie, I know you're instrumental in getting, um, uh, one particular high profile speaker, uh, from, um, uh, Edward Snowden's, uh, a legal team, I believe.
[21:46.320 --> 21:47.020]  Oh, yeah.
[21:47.380 --> 21:54.920]  Uh, uh, Jessalyn Radik is a, uh, uh, one of, one of a handful of attorneys that it's in the U.S.
[21:54.980 --> 21:55.500]  who's representing.
[21:55.580 --> 21:57.220]  He also has a Russian attorney.
[21:57.620 --> 22:06.680]  Um, but she's going to be giving a very interesting talk on Friday about, uh, Ed Snowden's legal case, which is a really fascinating legal case.
[22:06.860 --> 22:19.480]  I mean, being charged with espionage for giving documents to a reporter, uh, and his, his, his, his personhood status, he's literally a, a man without a country because the U.S.
[22:19.820 --> 22:22.940]  revoked his passport, which is why he's stuck in Russia right now.
[22:23.420 --> 22:34.720]  Uh, there's a lot of legalities and I'm, I'm a legal geek, so I find this stuff interesting, but it could happen to anybody who wants to speak their conscience and happens to work at a place where they see some wrongdoing.
[22:35.080 --> 22:37.840]  So, um, this is going to be a really interesting case.
[22:37.940 --> 22:53.320]  We also have, uh, one of the reporters, uh, Bart Gellman, one of the three reporters who was shared, allegedly shared documents with by Ed Snowden, um, will be at the HOPE conference and will be participating in, uh, uh, in one or more panels.
[22:53.940 --> 22:57.480]  Um, there's a lot of interesting stuff happening at the HOPE conference.
[22:57.840 --> 22:58.240]  Absolutely.
[22:58.440 --> 23:05.800]  We have, uh, whistleblower Thomas Drake, uh, who will, uh, be, uh, be on stage, uh, talking about various other things.
[23:06.020 --> 23:12.460]  Uh, and, um, we have, of course, uh, the, the ultimate whistleblower, Daniel Ellsberg from, uh, Pentagon paper fame.
[23:12.840 --> 23:17.200]  Uh, and every time somebody reads this, more people get involved.
[23:17.200 --> 23:22.120]  We didn't, there were some surprise speakers that we had no idea, uh, were going to be a part of this.
[23:22.320 --> 23:29.760]  Uh, we, we have some that we are still working on, but, uh, we have others that have come to us and, and begged and pleaded to be included in the program.
[23:30.100 --> 23:32.660]  And it's, uh, our program is bursting at the seams.
[23:32.780 --> 23:35.340]  That's, uh, that's how incredibly full we are right now.
[23:35.600 --> 23:38.780]  Uh, and it just keeps getting better and better, uh, by the day.
[23:38.920 --> 23:42.400]  So yeah, all kinds of, um, all kinds of, of, of coolness.
[23:42.520 --> 23:44.800]  Uh, x.hope.net, the schedule is there.
[23:44.920 --> 23:48.800]  There's still time to pre-register, uh, and, uh, and get involved in other ways.
[23:48.940 --> 23:55.060]  You can, uh, you can still volunteer, volunteer at hope.net if, uh, you're interested in, in, uh, helping us to run the conference.
[23:55.280 --> 23:56.420]  And that's a lot of fun to do that.
[23:56.960 --> 24:00.720]  Uh, we've all volunteered, not only at hope, but at other conferences as well.
[24:01.180 --> 24:04.000]  And it's a, it's a rewarding experience because you get to meet a lot of people.
[24:04.160 --> 24:09.000]  You get to sort of, uh, build the conference yourself, make decisions, uh, steer the direction.
[24:09.540 --> 24:15.900]  Um, and you come out of the weekend feeling amazing, really feeling tired and movies.
[24:16.260 --> 24:16.860]  Oh, movies.
[24:16.940 --> 24:17.900]  You want to tell us something about the movies?
[24:18.360 --> 24:20.000]  Yeah, we got, well, now it's finally confirmed.
[24:20.080 --> 24:20.420]  We got to move.
[24:20.560 --> 24:24.220]  Boy, is that, that was really, uh, arduous getting that movie schedule put together, but it's done.
[24:24.360 --> 24:37.700]  We have, uh, a, uh, well, we have, uh, uh, a film about a documentary about our friend, Aaron Swartz, who was on this program before, uh, the U S government basically drove him to kill himself.
[24:37.920 --> 24:39.680]  It's called the internet's own boy.
[24:39.880 --> 24:45.920]  Director, uh, Brian Knappenberger will be coming to screen that film, I believe at 10 o'clock on Saturday evening.
[24:46.380 --> 24:56.900]  Uh, that will be followed by a, uh, uh, a drama called algorithm, the hacker movie, which, uh, the director says is the most realistic hacker movie since war games.
[24:57.340 --> 25:03.120]  We also have, uh, a film from Austria, don't we?
[25:04.200 --> 25:08.320]  We have a film from Austria from our friend Johannes that, um, I can't pronounce the names.
[25:08.440 --> 25:09.260]  Anybody want to try?
[25:09.960 --> 25:10.360]  No, I don't know.
[25:10.360 --> 25:11.940]  I'm reading it here, but I can't pronounce it.
[25:12.140 --> 25:12.340]  Yeah.
[25:12.420 --> 25:13.900]  It's unpronounceable by Americans.
[25:14.080 --> 25:14.200]  I think.
[25:14.500 --> 25:14.640]  Yeah.
[25:14.800 --> 25:20.440]  As, as, as so many words, but it's, uh, it's definitely well, uh, well worth it to, uh, it's a science.
[25:20.620 --> 25:23.040]  It's called the rise of ancient Friedel.
[25:23.500 --> 25:27.220]  It's a science fiction, fantasy, and comedy film directed by Johannes, our friend.
[25:27.460 --> 25:41.880]  Uh, it, it's something, uh, it's, it's basically, uh, about the growing tension between the last two remaining superpowers, China and Google, where it escalates into a 21st century, uh, uh, global infernal, inferno called the Google, Google Wars.
[25:42.500 --> 25:44.560]  Um, it's got to check this out.
[25:44.800 --> 25:55.240]  Um, and also a, uh, a national TV series, uh, premiere will premiere at Hope involving one of our, our regular speakers, Steve Rambam, a new series called, uh, nowhere to hide.
[25:55.380 --> 26:07.480]  And this particular, uh, episode, which will be the premiere of the series, uh, has a lot of scenes from Hope number six, where that speaker, Steve Rambam, was arrested just before his Hope six talk.
[26:07.480 --> 26:20.180]  Um, and basically this, this, this show was going to show about that case and why he got arrested and why the charges are bogus and why they were eventually dropped and why the FBI agent who charged him was eventually arrested himself.
[26:20.540 --> 26:22.480]  So, uh, this should be pretty entertaining.
[26:23.200 --> 26:27.760]  There's a panel I was just reading, uh, right now called Unmasking a CIA Criminal.
[26:27.900 --> 26:30.020]  And this one really, uh, piques my interest.
[26:30.200 --> 26:33.400]  Apparently this phrase, her name is Alfredo Francis Bukowski.
[26:33.920 --> 26:45.320]  Those six words, uh, could actually have gotten you sent to, uh, to prison, uh, because, uh, that was the name of a, uh, an undercover CIA agent.
[26:45.720 --> 26:55.420]  Uh, and, um, and it was an amazing story that's being presented here about the connection of that person to all kinds of skullduggery, uh, unmasking a CIA criminal.
[26:55.520 --> 27:07.260]  Just one of so many talks taking place at the Hope Conference, uh, this, um, this July, July 18th through 20th, Hotel Pennsylvania, New York City, a hundred talks, more than a hundred talks because we have unscheduled as well.
[27:07.400 --> 27:08.460]  Uh, we've got workshops.
[27:08.580 --> 27:10.220]  Bernie, anything about workshops that you'd like to share?
[27:10.620 --> 27:15.200]  Yeah, we've got, uh, I think 15 or 20 workshops and projects going on at, at Hope.
[27:15.360 --> 27:22.340]  Mitch Altman and I have been working, uh, hard to get all those together and, uh, fit them into the, uh, the rooms on a schedule.
[27:22.780 --> 27:25.760]  A lot of the workshops or several of them follow a talk.
[27:25.920 --> 27:29.320]  So, like, you can go to a talk about some topic that's really interesting.
[27:29.620 --> 27:41.400]  And then after the talk, you can go downstairs to a, a workshop and hands-on build the thing or, or work on more hands-on stuff related to what the talk topic was about.
[27:41.920 --> 27:48.440]  Um, so I'm not going to go into all the different workshops, but it's, Hope is not just a passive event where you just show up and listen to talks.
[27:48.800 --> 27:51.740]  You can get involved in so much stuff that's going on there.
[27:51.880 --> 27:59.040]  You can really get your hands dirty and, and, uh, feel like you're, and actually be involved in, in, in making this happen.
[27:59.160 --> 28:01.400]  It's a community event where everybody participates.
[28:01.500 --> 28:06.940]  We have so many, uh, lock-picking, uh, seminars, workshops, talks.
[28:07.580 --> 28:09.020]  It's, uh, it's incredible.
[28:09.360 --> 28:12.820]  Uh, we've got, um, a talk on, on the lock sport movement.
[28:13.000 --> 28:15.280]  We have a talk on elevator hacking of all things.
[28:15.360 --> 28:19.020]  We have, uh, an introduction, uh, to lock picking.
[28:19.200 --> 28:27.780]  We have a talk about, uh, how somebody showed a key on television and that was enough for somebody else to duplicate that key and gain access.
[28:28.240 --> 28:30.420]  All sorts of educational things that you will learn.
[28:30.420 --> 28:36.140]  Of course, you'll have the ability to go to the lockpick village downstairs and, um, and, and refine your skills as well.
[28:36.580 --> 28:41.280]  Um, and I don't think we've ever had this much lockpicking material in, in one conference.
[28:41.420 --> 28:42.500]  Do you recall anything like that, Bernie?
[28:43.320 --> 28:45.020]  Um, not quite this much.
[28:45.020 --> 28:47.080]  We've had a lot before, but this is really interesting.
[28:47.220 --> 28:58.980]  One of the, one of the more interesting things will be a panel about, uh, the sport of lockpicking and how the cultures of lockpicking sport, sport lockpicking in different, different parts of the world differ.
[28:59.160 --> 29:09.540]  And we'll have representatives from the, uh, uh, lock sport community from, from Europe, the United States, elsewhere, uh, just talking about, uh, this really interesting, uh, hacker subculture.
[29:09.860 --> 29:20.640]  And while they're talking about this subculture from their different countries' perspectives, they will be picking various locks from these different countries and talking about why certain locks are more popular in some countries and why.
[29:20.840 --> 29:28.480]  And you'll be able to see on the big screen, like with a tiny camera pointed down into the lock, like how these different locks, some of which you've probably never seen before.
[29:28.900 --> 29:38.020]  Um, this will be, if, if, if you're interested in locks and security, This will be the panel, because it'll be an international expose about locks and lock sport culture.
[29:38.940 --> 29:39.540]  Absolutely.
[29:39.960 --> 29:44.480]  And Kyle, you've got some info on the other aspects of the conference, right?
[29:44.820 --> 29:45.440]  Yeah, yeah.
[29:45.620 --> 29:51.400]  I just want to mention, we've got some developments on the Uplink landscape.
[29:51.400 --> 29:58.800]  And I just want to appeal and just ask if anyone out there was interested in still becoming a sponsor.
[29:58.800 --> 30:04.060]  We've got a couple costs related to the Uplink and our service for the event.
[30:04.420 --> 30:16.920]  And we would like to partner with some people to help pay for some construction fees and some other things that will hopefully make really unprecedented speeds available to us for quite a while at the hotel.
[30:17.100 --> 30:19.660]  Well, I know last week we were talking about the frustration.
[30:19.960 --> 30:21.600]  Was that last week or was that just every week?
[30:21.600 --> 30:30.080]  The frustration of installing high-speed internet access in aging infrastructure, such as here in Manhattan.
[30:30.780 --> 30:36.480]  And since then, there have been major developments, because, well, you found a pretty dedicated crew of network people.
[30:36.700 --> 30:43.700]  So it's never been closer to us actually getting much, much higher bandwidth.
[30:43.940 --> 30:45.640]  It's just that we're running into a cost issue.
[30:45.640 --> 30:50.900]  And this latest news from our distributor is sort of putting the kibosh on that a little bit.
[30:51.000 --> 30:52.880]  But sponsorship is an option.
[30:53.020 --> 30:54.560]  Sponsorship is definitely an option here.
[30:54.860 --> 30:55.360]  Yeah.
[30:55.460 --> 31:05.580]  And like I've said on previous shows, we've got a really, really good team, a lot of dedicated new people who have basically formed an ISP.
[31:05.580 --> 31:17.040]  It's a fully-fledged service provider, and we are going to be responsible for, you know, what we're anticipating could be several thousand, maybe 3,000 hosts.
[31:17.040 --> 31:30.340]  That's every person with a phone and computer, maybe multiple devices, getting an IP and being able to present themselves on the internet for both download and also for hosting.
[31:30.340 --> 31:41.460]  So, anyway, we want to be able to give everybody an amazing experience and kind of step up our production quality in terms of the uplink.
[31:41.480 --> 31:43.320]  And this is a really unique opportunity.
[31:43.320 --> 31:59.340]  So thanks to all the people that have been working on it, and please get in touch with the sponsor's email so that we can work with some other people to solidify this and make sure it's this incredible upgrade from what we've tried in the past.
[31:59.820 --> 32:04.300]  And that email is sponsor at hope.net, if you're interested in sponsoring us anyway.
[32:04.380 --> 32:06.060]  But this is what I love about the hacker community.
[32:06.260 --> 32:11.600]  You know, we hear a lot of tales about injustice and oppression here on these airwaves because it's everywhere.
[32:11.600 --> 32:16.680]  It's in all different walks of life, all different countries, all throughout time.
[32:16.800 --> 32:20.140]  And we're always facing challenges of one sort or another.
[32:20.140 --> 32:33.660]  And the way that we try and deal with these things in the hacker community is instead of being stepped on and made to be weak, we see that as a challenge and we see that as a way to get even stronger.
[32:33.900 --> 32:47.160]  So while we're facing all kinds of obstacles right now, we're determined, however naively we might be acting, to turn us into a positive thing and to come out even stronger than we thought we were at the beginning of all this.
[32:48.040 --> 32:51.940]  And I think no one has a better chance than this community to do that.
[32:52.460 --> 32:56.620]  And hopefully we'll be able to share this with so many people and tell some good stories afterwards.
[32:56.620 --> 33:10.160]  Also, I should point out, one of the first casualties, unfortunately, of this, right now at least, is the printed program that we always provide for our attendees at the conference.
[33:10.160 --> 33:15.300]  It's basically, I think, about 40 pages, maybe more, of all the talks, all the speakers.
[33:15.820 --> 33:18.080]  And, well, of course, that costs something to print.
[33:18.320 --> 33:21.600]  And we don't have that right now because of what's happened.
[33:21.960 --> 33:24.860]  If we can find someone to sponsor that, then it will happen.
[33:24.860 --> 33:28.240]  And that's what we're working on right now is to figure out a way to get that covered.
[33:28.380 --> 33:31.660]  So we're going to be doing that a bit more this time to cover some expenses.
[33:32.800 --> 33:35.520]  And fingers crossed that that might actually happen.
[33:35.760 --> 33:36.100]  Rob?
[33:36.380 --> 33:38.840]  We also still have some vendor space available, don't we?
[33:38.900 --> 33:39.600]  Oh, yes, we do.
[33:39.720 --> 33:40.300]  We do.
[33:42.120 --> 33:52.820]  If you want to be a vendor and see thousands of people walking by, thousands of some of the brightest people in the world, the people that will form companies like Google in the future, yeah, they come to our conference.
[33:53.840 --> 34:00.820]  There is a great way you can get involved in just being visible to them.
[34:01.000 --> 34:03.620]  A vendor table at the Hope Conference.
[34:04.280 --> 34:06.160]  Vendors at hope.net is the email address.
[34:06.220 --> 34:07.360]  Bernie, anything you want to say about vendors?
[34:08.880 --> 34:11.800]  Well, I mean, these are not just people that are selling knickknacks.
[34:11.880 --> 34:19.160]  These are people that are selling products and services that are very interesting to the hacker community, just not junk.
[34:19.760 --> 34:30.700]  We have publishers like No Starch Press, our friend Bill Pollack, who's a regular vendor at Hope, has been bringing like hundreds and hundreds of pounds of really interesting books of interest to the hacker community.
[34:30.820 --> 34:32.380]  One of his authors will be giving a talk there.
[34:32.420 --> 34:33.280]  That's how you measure books?
[34:33.360 --> 34:33.860]  By pounds?
[34:34.780 --> 34:35.140]  Wow.
[34:35.300 --> 34:36.420]  Pounds of books, that's right.
[34:36.500 --> 34:36.960]  Never heard that.
[34:36.960 --> 34:38.820]  Isn't that how you weigh 2,600 magazine?
[34:38.940 --> 34:39.400]  By the pound?
[34:39.600 --> 34:40.660]  Well, I never did it myself.
[34:40.660 --> 34:42.020]  I guess the post office does that.
[34:42.020 --> 34:44.320]  But okay, yeah, it's a good way to measure books.
[34:45.360 --> 34:52.760]  A recent vendor just signed up is, I think it's called SG Technologies, the company that our friend Dragorn works for, that makes the black phone.
[34:54.220 --> 34:56.880]  Oh boy, they really don't want you getting the word out, do they?
[34:58.440 --> 35:03.020]  Encrypted voice and data and video on this secure phone.
[35:03.300 --> 35:06.920]  And they'll be selling them for cash at the black phone booth.
[35:07.140 --> 35:10.340]  I hope they're rolling this phone out in just like a week or two.
[35:10.340 --> 35:12.640]  Can you understand people on the black phone, Bernie?
[35:12.800 --> 35:13.100]  I don't know.
[35:13.400 --> 35:15.820]  Is the black phone nice and clear?
[35:15.960 --> 35:19.500]  Maybe it's clearer than the phone I'm using now.
[35:19.500 --> 35:19.960]  I don't know.
[35:20.220 --> 35:20.440]  Uh-huh.
[35:21.320 --> 35:21.800]  All right.
[35:21.900 --> 35:28.140]  Well, yes, black phone technologies is something that will be there as well, along with Microsoft and the NSA.
[35:28.660 --> 35:28.940]  Oh, no?
[35:29.140 --> 35:29.800]  No, no, we're not.
[35:29.920 --> 35:30.240]  Okay.
[35:30.400 --> 35:31.840]  You see, there's certain things we don't do.
[35:31.980 --> 35:33.880]  We don't have the megacorporations.
[35:33.880 --> 35:37.760]  We don't have the surveillance agencies and the military.
[35:37.780 --> 35:38.920]  We don't have them.
[35:38.920 --> 35:41.680]  We are selective as far as the vendors that we pick.
[35:41.800 --> 35:45.800]  That's why there are still openings, because some people come to us and we say, you know what?
[35:46.060 --> 35:47.760]  You're not a good fit for this audience.
[35:47.760 --> 35:52.220]  We don't really want you there corrupting young minds with your propaganda.
[35:52.680 --> 35:55.020]  We'd rather open this table up to somebody else.
[35:55.020 --> 36:07.140]  So if you think that you fit that bill, please write to us, vendors at hope.net, because we'd much rather have somebody that our audience will benefit from than somebody who will take advantage of our audience.
[36:07.800 --> 36:09.440]  It's not about the money for us.
[36:09.560 --> 36:12.020]  It's about getting a good experience for the attendees.
[36:12.420 --> 36:14.960]  Yeah, I'll say that, you know, I live in Manhattan.
[36:15.160 --> 36:18.160]  I'm very used to walking past people selling junk and not paying attention to them.
[36:18.260 --> 36:21.600]  But the vendor area at Hope is always full of interesting things.
[36:22.100 --> 36:28.020]  We've had, you know, not even just things you might think you would find at a hacker conference, but things like comic books from our friend Ed Piskor.
[36:28.020 --> 36:28.020]  Sure.
[36:29.020 --> 36:32.280]  Nina Paley, another friend of the show, has vended at Hope.
[36:32.520 --> 36:35.620]  And just all these cool things that you didn't know were interesting.
[36:35.760 --> 36:39.240]  We've had people printing, screen printing T-shirts right there on the spot for you.
[36:39.980 --> 36:43.960]  Just really, just really eclectic, you know, kits from Mitch Altman and Company.
[36:44.900 --> 36:50.500]  Really, really cool stuff that you could pick up and then go over and solder while you're right there and have Mitch teach you how to solder on.
[36:50.600 --> 36:53.820]  It's great stuff and it's worth a look and it's good company to be in.
[36:53.820 --> 36:56.860]  And if you are a vendor, that would be of interest to Hope.
[36:56.960 --> 36:58.180]  We've had 3D printing companies.
[36:58.380 --> 37:00.840]  We've had, you know, that's very sexy right now, I'm told.
[37:02.260 --> 37:06.100]  We've had all kinds of cool stuff there and you might like to join us.
[37:06.260 --> 37:07.360]  And don't forget the Club Mate.
[37:07.580 --> 37:08.980]  There'll be Club Mate all over the place.
[37:09.140 --> 37:09.620]  Oh, yes, indeed.
[37:09.620 --> 37:15.720]  Hopefully not spilled all over the place, but that's where it's the central distribution area where hackers come to feed.
[37:16.320 --> 37:17.340]  It'll be right there.
[37:17.680 --> 37:23.240]  And right now, in fact, the Hope X supply of Club Mate is on the high seas.
[37:23.240 --> 37:25.940]  In the middle of the Atlantic Ocean somewhere, it really is.
[37:26.060 --> 37:26.640]  That's kind of cool.
[37:27.180 --> 37:34.400]  And hopefully it'll get to us on time and we'll be able to satisfy all the hackers that come to take part in that.
[37:34.520 --> 37:39.080]  The biggest supply ever, I think, in this country because we just keep getting more each time.
[37:39.520 --> 37:48.680]  So for those who don't know, Club Mate is this energy drink that we stumbled upon in Germany that's really big with the CCC over there and the various conferences they have.
[37:48.680 --> 37:52.140]  And we brought it over to this country and it's turning into a phenomenon as well.
[37:52.140 --> 37:54.640]  So, yeah, you'll see it in stores.
[37:54.840 --> 37:55.700]  You'll see it in clubs.
[37:55.800 --> 37:56.780]  You'll see it all over the place.
[37:57.260 --> 37:57.860]  It's growing.
[37:57.980 --> 37:58.540]  You wouldn't believe it.
[37:59.300 --> 38:02.500]  Okay, we have, believe it or not, other things to talk about besides ourselves.
[38:03.740 --> 38:11.280]  The Supreme Court, they are the Supreme Court after all, was busy this week doing some damage and doing some good things.
[38:11.480 --> 38:13.080]  Mike, would you care to tell us maybe...
[38:13.080 --> 38:15.000]  Can you tell us the good things first because...
[38:15.000 --> 38:17.180]  Yeah, it's so rare that I have any to share.
[38:17.180 --> 38:18.720]  But this week we do.
[38:18.880 --> 38:23.020]  The Supreme Court released a bunch of decisions this morning.
[38:23.040 --> 38:33.500]  And one of them is that if you are arrested by the police and you have a cell phone on you, the police cannot search that cell phone without a warrant.
[38:37.370 --> 38:39.770]  You sound so surprised by that.
[38:39.950 --> 38:43.690]  And I wish I had more to say about this, but the decision was unanimous.
[38:43.690 --> 38:57.470]  The entire Supreme Court agrees that just because you happen to have some data that is either on your cell phone or on the internet accessible by your cell phone or whatever, and you're arrested for something, the police can't just go look at it all.
[38:57.650 --> 38:58.610]  And it's that simple.
[38:58.830 --> 38:59.670]  Mike, that's great.
[38:59.810 --> 39:01.250]  That's like fantastic news.
[39:01.490 --> 39:04.250]  I mean, they're going to get a warrant, probably, if they think there's anything there.
[39:04.390 --> 39:08.170]  But there's at least that level of oversight from the courts.
[39:08.170 --> 39:16.330]  And, you know, the Justice Department is already talking about how to, like, get those warrants as quickly as possible and try and circumvent this decision.
[39:16.450 --> 39:18.190]  But basically, it's good news.
[39:18.270 --> 39:19.790]  At least they have to get a warrant.
[39:20.070 --> 39:22.770]  You know, they can't just grab your phone and start searching it.
[39:22.830 --> 39:23.910]  That's a good thing.
[39:24.070 --> 39:28.370]  That's something that we sort of expect, but it was taken away from us.
[39:28.470 --> 39:30.790]  It's not really inked anywhere on the books.
[39:30.790 --> 39:37.430]  And the Supreme Court, which does not always get technology, and we'll talk about, I guess in a second, some technology that they don't get.
[39:38.170 --> 39:40.230]  We're still on the good part for a little while, because we have so little of that.
[39:40.450 --> 40:00.790]  But, you know, Roberts, the Supreme Court, the head, the chief justice, he wrote the opinion, and he rejected the arguments, this is according to Politico, that searches of digital devices for information are comparable to searches law enforcement officers often conduct on contraband after making arrests.
[40:00.950 --> 40:02.630]  So if you're arrested, they can search you for a gun.
[40:02.770 --> 40:03.890]  That makes sense to me.
[40:04.230 --> 40:09.410]  And they can search you, and they can find that you have a cell phone and determine that it's not going to, like, explode and kill them immediately.
[40:09.430 --> 40:15.730]  And then go get the warrant and see what was on it, if that will, you know, help their investigation.
[40:17.550 --> 40:25.690]  He writes that modern cell phones as a category imply, implicate privacy concerns far beyond those implicated by the search of a cigarette pack, a wallet, or a purse.
[40:26.870 --> 40:27.230]  Okay.
[40:27.450 --> 40:36.230]  I mean, like I said, I wish I had more to say about this, but they just wrote this, like, a whole bunch of obvious stuff, which is unusual for them, and good news.
[40:36.350 --> 40:37.390]  Good news if you're being arrested.
[40:37.530 --> 40:40.630]  Well, if you find yourself being arrested, there's good news there.
[40:40.830 --> 40:47.710]  Just think about the fact that they can't search your phone, and that you have a few rights left before they throw you into the who's gal.
[40:48.290 --> 40:48.990]  Yes, go ahead.
[40:49.250 --> 40:50.470]  Yeah, I mean, it's kind of...
[40:50.470 --> 41:02.490]  I understand your disbelief, Kyle, because it seems like so much of the past 15 years or so has centered on due process getting stripped away from us piece by piece, and it's nice to actually have some of it codified that we didn't have before.
[41:03.530 --> 41:05.050]  All right, enough reveling.
[41:05.250 --> 41:06.530]  Are we ready for the bad news now?
[41:06.690 --> 41:08.390]  Can I give one more good news?
[41:08.530 --> 41:09.990]  It's not a Supreme Court, but a different...
[41:09.990 --> 41:10.610]  You're overdoing it, my good news.
[41:10.610 --> 41:23.610]  I know this is so unusual, but a different court, it is a federal judge in Portland, Oregon, has ruled that the no-fly-less process is unconstitutional and must be reformed.
[41:23.610 --> 41:31.090]  So, people, we've talked about the no-fly-list where basically a law enforcement officer can say, you are not allowed to get it on an airplane...
[41:31.090 --> 41:32.290]  Because your name is hard to spell.
[41:32.430 --> 41:33.470]  Because your name is hard to spell.
[41:33.630 --> 41:51.250]  The one case that has ever, like, gone far enough for us to know why the person was put on the no-fly-list, it was because the form was confusing and you were supposed to leave the box unchecked if you wanted them to do something and the person was confused because it was a terribly designed form.
[41:51.390 --> 41:53.650]  So, they checked the box and the person was on the no-fly-list.
[41:54.410 --> 41:59.370]  And wasn't that the trial where somebody who was a witness was on the no-fly-list and couldn't testify because...
[41:59.370 --> 41:59.830]  Well, yeah.
[41:59.990 --> 42:08.890]  The person's daughter was not on the no-fly-list, but just something mysterious happened and she wasn't allowed to fly despite being a U.S.
[42:08.950 --> 42:09.130]  citizen.
[42:09.190 --> 42:10.270]  So, anyway, what happened with Portland?
[42:10.750 --> 42:14.730]  The judge has ruled that the process for the no-fly-list is unconstitutional.
[42:14.730 --> 42:14.850]  Unconstitutional.
[42:16.870 --> 42:21.650]  It's, quote, wholly ineffective, unquote, and a violation of the Fifth Amendment.
[42:22.190 --> 42:30.530]  And the government is required to tell people why they are on the no-fly-list and give them the opportunity to challenge their inclusion.
[42:30.770 --> 42:37.250]  Now, this is a district judge and I, you know, I still can't remain too optimistic even in the face of all this good news.
[42:37.410 --> 42:39.910]  I suspect it'll be overturned, but maybe it won't.
[42:39.910 --> 42:41.010]  Well, the process.
[42:41.250 --> 42:43.270]  And you have a district judge in Portland saying this.
[42:43.470 --> 42:46.310]  So, does that mean that... what's the next step?
[42:46.430 --> 42:51.170]  Are any of us knowledgeable enough about the whole process to know what's going to happen next?
[42:51.170 --> 42:55.170]  Is another district judge going to face off with this one and say, no, you're wrong?
[42:55.170 --> 42:58.370]  How many times does this go around before precedent is actually set?
[42:58.550 --> 43:04.370]  I mean, presumably the government doesn't like this decision and will appeal it to a circuit appeals court.
[43:04.510 --> 43:08.170]  And from there, if there's a further appeal, it could go to the Supreme Court.
[43:09.670 --> 43:27.110]  If so, if, you know, if I was put on the no-fly-list here in New York and I tried to sue, I could say this decision in Portland is pretty great and a judge here might disagree and, you know, it's that kind of disagreement among judges that makes the Supreme Court really excited to rule on things.
[43:27.230 --> 43:28.350]  So, we'll see what happens.
[43:28.530 --> 43:31.750]  This will obviously be something we continue to monitor, but...
[43:31.750 --> 43:32.430]  Okay.
[43:32.550 --> 43:34.570]  And I understand there's some bad news from the Supreme Court.
[43:35.030 --> 43:35.450]  Yeah.
[43:35.590 --> 43:37.330]  So, we've talked about Aereo.
[43:37.510 --> 43:38.470]  You remember that?
[43:38.630 --> 43:39.010]  I do.
[43:39.110 --> 43:43.030]  Let me just also give out our phone number because we'd like to squeeze in some phone calls in the time we have left.
[43:43.110 --> 43:44.970]  212-209-2900.
[43:45.410 --> 43:47.010]  And yes, I do remember Aereo.
[43:47.130 --> 43:59.190]  They're the company that wants to bring television to people that don't have televisions by having them subscribe to little antennas in the city that they live.
[43:59.190 --> 44:01.110]  It sounds ridiculous, but that is the law.
[44:01.110 --> 44:03.610]  And that's what they have to do.
[44:03.750 --> 44:04.810]  And they've been following the law.
[44:05.090 --> 44:13.210]  And broadcasters, for reasons I still don't understand, are upset at them for providing this service to people within a particular location like New York.
[44:13.890 --> 44:14.350]  Yeah.
[44:14.410 --> 44:16.590]  It's a really weird service.
[44:16.810 --> 44:19.450]  I mean, very limited in ways to...
[44:19.450 --> 44:20.710]  It's free television.
[44:20.890 --> 44:26.790]  It's free television that they're paying Aereo for, but Aereo is providing television to people that wouldn't be able to get it ordinarily.
[44:27.310 --> 44:28.050]  Reception-wise.
[44:28.170 --> 44:28.830]  Reception-wise, yes.
[44:28.890 --> 44:32.450]  I mean, you just might not want to have a television in your house.
[44:32.630 --> 44:36.190]  You might want the convenience of being able to watch it from any computer.
[44:36.330 --> 44:36.690]  I don't know.
[44:36.810 --> 44:42.630]  It doesn't matter because you can't get the service anymore because, as you can probably guess, the Supreme Court has ruled that it is illegal.
[44:42.890 --> 44:44.370]  I don't understand it.
[44:44.390 --> 44:45.290]  It's free television.
[44:45.290 --> 44:46.010]  It's free.
[44:46.370 --> 44:47.530]  Anyone can get it.
[44:47.690 --> 44:51.910]  So how are you going to prosecute somebody for providing something that's free?
[44:51.930 --> 44:52.790]  Yes, they're charging.
[44:53.010 --> 45:01.330]  They're charging because they're delivering it online to your computer or whatever, and you're renting an antenna, which is what the law says they have to do.
[45:01.430 --> 45:03.150]  There's probably all kinds of other ways they could do this.
[45:03.170 --> 45:08.810]  They could have one master antenna and send it to many people at once, but the law says they have to have one antenna for every part.
[45:08.950 --> 45:10.430]  Where is this antenna farm in New York?
[45:10.490 --> 45:11.330]  I would love to see it.
[45:11.430 --> 45:12.290]  It's got to be around somewhere.
[45:12.530 --> 45:12.750]  I don't know.
[45:12.810 --> 45:14.550]  There's pictures of it on Aereo's...
[45:14.550 --> 45:16.650]  We should take a trip there and see what it's like.
[45:16.730 --> 45:18.090]  And I imagine this is all over the country.
[45:18.090 --> 45:22.850]  It's a silly service, but it's a necessary service for people that need it.
[45:23.270 --> 45:28.790]  I think you should be able to watch any television station anywhere without restriction, including the commercials.
[45:29.570 --> 45:30.990]  But again, corporate logic.
[45:31.090 --> 45:33.670]  Corporate logic stepping in and saying, no, you don't have the right to do that.
[45:33.670 --> 45:36.270]  We have to dictate who sees what when.
[45:36.930 --> 45:37.670]  It's sad.
[45:38.290 --> 45:39.970]  This was a six to three decision.
[45:40.090 --> 45:42.550]  You want to guess who were in the dissent?
[45:43.970 --> 45:44.530]  No.
[45:44.870 --> 45:45.830]  It's too depressing.
[45:46.050 --> 45:51.670]  It was Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and Alito, who are not generally people I agree with.
[45:52.430 --> 45:52.550]  Okay.
[45:52.830 --> 45:54.150]  Oh, they dissented?
[45:54.310 --> 45:54.910]  They dissented.
[45:55.230 --> 46:00.370]  Scalia said that the majority had twisted the federal copyright statute to produce a just outcome.
[46:00.570 --> 46:04.130]  So I guess he likes the outcome, but not the reasoning.
[46:04.130 --> 46:04.690]  I don't know.
[46:05.310 --> 46:20.690]  But Breyer, who wrote the majority opinion, said that the court does not believe its decision will discourage the emergence or use of different kinds of technologies, which is a really weird thing to write in a decision saying that some technologies are illegal.
[46:22.070 --> 46:22.510]  Wow.
[46:23.050 --> 46:23.390]  Okay.
[46:23.550 --> 46:24.530]  And so it goes.
[46:25.090 --> 46:27.290]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[46:27.410 --> 46:28.610]  Phone lines are open right now.
[46:28.730 --> 46:30.310]  So please give us a call.
[46:30.450 --> 46:32.690]  I know our signal probably sounds crappy because of Verizon.
[46:32.850 --> 46:33.410]  Thank you, Verizon.
[46:33.610 --> 46:39.550]  I don't know what we did to piss you off, but apparently that's what we get for whatever it is we did.
[46:39.710 --> 46:44.070]  I mean, the charming thing about Verizon is you don't even have to have to make them angry to get bad service.
[46:44.170 --> 46:45.290]  That's true as well.
[46:45.930 --> 46:51.230]  212-209-2900, the archive will sound better because we don't have static on the archive.
[46:51.450 --> 47:00.730]  So if you're worried about how your voice might sound to your grandchildren many years from now when they listen to this show, fear not because we'll have it improved here.
[47:01.330 --> 47:02.690]  Anything new on net neutrality?
[47:04.290 --> 47:07.490]  Still pretty much... You can still write to the FCC.
[47:07.490 --> 47:09.450]  Yeah, the comment period is still open.
[47:09.570 --> 47:11.550]  FCC.gov, what, slash comments?
[47:11.570 --> 47:12.050]  Is that it?
[47:13.170 --> 47:13.950]  Something to that effect.
[47:14.230 --> 47:14.230]  Yeah.
[47:14.810 --> 47:15.890]  You know, it'll be fun.
[47:16.030 --> 47:16.670]  You should write a comment.
[47:17.050 --> 47:18.430]  Yeah, slash comments.
[47:18.670 --> 47:28.350]  And I think the thing you would want to comment on is the protecting an open internet act or that's the talking point.
[47:28.610 --> 47:31.810]  It probably is just the one with the most comments at this point.
[47:31.810 --> 47:36.650]  Yeah, it's at the top and it has the most comments and that's really putting a strain on the FCC website.
[47:37.230 --> 47:40.130]  I just realized, you know, we use Verizon for phones as well.
[47:40.190 --> 47:41.090]  We're not getting any calls.
[47:41.570 --> 47:42.930]  And we usually get a ton of calls.
[47:43.170 --> 47:44.430]  So I think there's a connection there.
[47:45.450 --> 47:47.070]  212-209-2900.
[47:47.390 --> 47:48.770]  You think Verizon is that?
[47:48.950 --> 47:49.710]  I don't know.
[47:49.910 --> 47:53.210]  Or maybe just communications in general are falling apart in this country.
[47:53.450 --> 47:54.430]  All right, I'll say the phone number.
[47:54.550 --> 47:57.710]  It's 212-209-2900.
[47:58.510 --> 47:59.610]  You thought that was going to work?
[47:59.770 --> 48:00.370]  You saying the phone number?
[48:00.430 --> 48:01.450]  Bernie has to say the phone number.
[48:01.710 --> 48:02.730]  I think you have to click your heels.
[48:02.970 --> 48:03.050]  Yeah.
[48:03.590 --> 48:07.710]  Area code 212-209-2900.
[48:10.250 --> 48:10.570]  No?
[48:10.570 --> 48:11.270]  No, nothing.
[48:11.490 --> 48:14.890]  We should ask you, Bernie, if you have anything to add on these court cases we discussed.
[48:17.370 --> 48:18.990]  Wait, the phone's ringing now, Bernie.
[48:19.170 --> 48:19.730]  The phone's ringing.
[48:19.950 --> 48:20.790]  Okay, I'm going to see it works.
[48:20.930 --> 48:24.390]  Yeah, we got to grab this quickly while we have the chance before they change them.
[48:24.490 --> 48:28.670]  We've been talking about so many controversial things, I think people might be afraid to be associated with us.
[48:28.750 --> 48:29.910]  But let's see who's out there.
[48:29.990 --> 48:30.330]  Good evening.
[48:30.330 --> 48:31.210]  You're on Off the Hook.
[48:32.950 --> 48:33.610]  Hey, hello.
[48:33.910 --> 48:34.430]  How you doing?
[48:35.130 --> 48:36.150]  Okay, how you doing?
[48:37.010 --> 48:38.750]  Well, we're struggling, but we're getting through.
[48:38.990 --> 48:39.750]  What's on your mind?
[48:40.310 --> 48:41.150]  I finally got through.
[48:41.250 --> 48:41.590]  Good, good.
[48:41.750 --> 48:45.970]  Well, yeah, yeah, your show is coming through with a clicking kind of noise.
[48:45.970 --> 48:46.990]  It's very annoying.
[48:46.990 --> 48:51.730]  I don't know if that's intentional on Verizon's part or what's going on.
[48:51.770 --> 48:54.550]  Well, no, I was chewing gum and I'm clicking my tongue against my teeth.
[48:54.590 --> 48:55.150]  That could be it.
[48:55.210 --> 48:56.530]  Oh, it is certainly not.
[48:56.530 --> 49:00.190]  And it's an electronic kind of a stat, not even a static.
[49:00.390 --> 49:02.190]  It's a repetitive clicking.
[49:02.410 --> 49:05.190]  Well, it's that new modern type of gum that they sell to the kids.
[49:05.330 --> 49:05.370]  Maybe.
[49:05.530 --> 49:06.730]  No, it's Verizon.
[49:06.750 --> 49:07.730]  We know it's Verizon.
[49:08.030 --> 49:15.090]  And, but like I said, the archive won't have a trace of this, which is kind of frustrating because we're talking about it and people won't know what we're talking about.
[49:16.130 --> 49:23.030]  Including that garbled transmission when the fellow was talking about the, some of the people that were going to be at the Hope Conference?
[49:23.030 --> 49:24.390]  Yeah, that fellow is Bernie S.
[49:24.470 --> 49:32.750]  And he has garbled often on this, on this Comrex because I don't know why, Bernie, I think you're using a cell phone with a poor signal or something or using a landline.
[49:33.090 --> 49:38.590]  Yeah, I'm on the, I'm using a digital signal through the Comrex thing, but I have, I'm over a weak 3G signals.
[49:38.730 --> 49:38.990]  That's why.
[49:39.070 --> 49:41.490]  By the way, the stream right now has this clicking noise.
[49:42.070 --> 49:42.830]  The stream, yes.
[49:42.890 --> 49:46.050]  The stream will have the clicking noise, but I'm told the archive will not.
[49:46.830 --> 49:47.510]  Oh, very good.
[49:47.610 --> 49:47.770]  Yeah.
[49:47.930 --> 49:48.070]  Very good.
[49:48.210 --> 49:48.370]  Okay.
[49:48.530 --> 49:50.650]  Well, the archive is recorded right there at the studio, isn't it?
[49:50.650 --> 49:53.350]  Yes, that's why it doesn't have the clicking noise, because it never leaves this room.
[49:54.270 --> 49:56.250]  So, caller, any other questions?
[49:58.350 --> 50:00.570]  The one, I don't want to beat this horse to death.
[50:00.710 --> 50:04.490]  I called in a couple weeks ago, I guess it was, talking about the Hope Conference.
[50:04.630 --> 50:11.150]  And I am, you did mention in this show that apparently a fellow was actually arrested before giving a talk.
[50:12.930 --> 50:21.750]  I mentioned a couple weeks ago, as I say, that I'm a little concerned about authorities keeping an eye on who exactly attends these things.
[50:22.010 --> 50:24.850]  Well, yeah, it's a valid concern to be worried about that.
[50:24.970 --> 50:28.510]  But you have to ask yourself, do you want to live your life that way?
[50:28.590 --> 50:32.890]  Worried about who is going to keep track of what you read, what you listen to, where you go?
[50:33.570 --> 50:36.930]  We find the answer to that is for as many people as possible to defy that.
[50:37.150 --> 50:40.150]  And we certainly don't give that information out to anybody.
[50:40.430 --> 50:49.330]  There will most certainly be authority figures of some kind keeping an eye on us in some way, whether electronically or with binoculars from Madison Square Garden.
[50:49.450 --> 50:49.950]  Who knows?
[50:50.350 --> 50:52.250]  Point is, you're not doing anything wrong.
[50:52.430 --> 50:55.070]  You're doing a very good thing by being there.
[50:55.250 --> 50:59.750]  And there'll be so many people that you can talk to that are the most amazing people in the world.
[50:59.930 --> 51:04.550]  So it's worth standing up to that kind of oppression to make that statement.
[51:04.750 --> 51:09.030]  I mean, we should also point out that the person who was arrested was not arrested for the content of his talk.
[51:09.270 --> 51:12.630]  They wanted him for some other reason, for something he may or may not have done.
[51:12.850 --> 51:18.970]  But they just happened to know he was there because he was a speaker and he used his real name and his name was on the speaker list.
[51:19.290 --> 51:21.210]  But we don't even know who our attendees are.
[51:21.350 --> 51:23.070]  So I don't know how anyone else would know.
[51:23.170 --> 51:27.930]  Yeah, it was since proven that he did not do that as all charges were dropped and the person who arrested him actually was arrested.
[51:28.210 --> 51:32.350]  But that's a whole other story, which you can hear at length in other forums.
[51:33.410 --> 51:35.650]  And yeah, it's going to be an amazing event.
[51:35.750 --> 51:38.030]  So I hope that doesn't dissuade you at all, caller.
[51:38.770 --> 51:39.650]  No, no, not at all.
[51:39.710 --> 51:40.090]  Not at all.
[51:40.210 --> 51:48.310]  But once again, you know, after I saw what happened with the Occupy Wall Street movement, you know, that they did their best to crush that.
[51:49.830 --> 51:51.550]  Well, we're not occupying a park.
[51:51.710 --> 51:52.890]  We paid for the hotel.
[51:53.550 --> 51:54.850]  So there's that at least.
[51:55.910 --> 52:01.030]  But what we say, what we do, what we talk about and share, it's going to be very, very interesting.
[52:01.210 --> 52:03.650]  It's going to be something that ruffles feathers for sure.
[52:03.850 --> 52:08.190]  But in this country at this point in time, we have every right to talk about these things.
[52:08.390 --> 52:11.530]  I mean, there's more than one way to crush dissent.
[52:11.710 --> 52:14.230]  And one is to discourage people from showing up in the first place.
[52:14.390 --> 52:19.210]  And I really hope that our enemies, if we have them, would never have succeeded in that.
[52:19.390 --> 52:19.550]  Yeah.
[52:19.970 --> 52:20.150]  Thanks.
[52:20.230 --> 52:20.970]  Thanks for your call.
[52:21.130 --> 52:21.870]  And we hope to see you at Hope.
[52:22.610 --> 52:22.930]  All right.
[52:23.870 --> 52:25.590]  212-209-2900.
[52:25.730 --> 52:26.150]  Did you see that?
[52:26.250 --> 52:27.490]  We had six calls coming in.
[52:27.870 --> 52:34.390]  I remember the old days when the phones would just ring forever because the phone company would not cut you off while the phone was still ringing.
[52:34.530 --> 52:36.350]  And now they cut you off after like five rings.
[52:36.630 --> 52:39.890]  So I know it's harder for people to call in because of that.
[52:40.010 --> 52:40.570]  It's a pain.
[52:40.790 --> 52:43.170]  Imagine calling somebody and you have to keep redialing.
[52:43.310 --> 52:47.070]  I was trying to report an internet failure earlier today.
[52:47.230 --> 52:50.870]  And I kept getting to the point in the phone where I hit a key.
[52:51.010 --> 52:52.770]  Actually, it was one of those voice systems.
[52:52.890 --> 52:55.170]  And I said, yeah, it's internet is out.
[52:55.530 --> 52:58.350]  And I got the recording saying, hold on while we transfer you.
[52:58.450 --> 53:00.690]  And every time it just hung up on me.
[53:01.030 --> 53:03.190]  And I had to call back and do the same thing over and over again.
[53:03.290 --> 53:03.730]  Three times.
[53:04.290 --> 53:07.610]  So I can sympathize with the people who aren't calling back right now.
[53:07.770 --> 53:09.490]  Yes, I know it's frustrating, but it's worth it.
[53:09.970 --> 53:10.470]  Good evening.
[53:10.630 --> 53:11.150]  You're on Off The Hook.
[53:11.250 --> 53:11.670]  Thanks for calling.
[53:12.810 --> 53:13.170]  Hello?
[53:13.410 --> 53:14.270]  Hi, what's on your mind?
[53:14.650 --> 53:15.170]  How you doing?
[53:15.290 --> 53:15.450]  Hi.
[53:16.150 --> 53:17.790]  I just have a quick question.
[53:18.170 --> 53:22.550]  I always listen to you guys, you know, alone, everyone in their car, going home or whatever.
[53:23.150 --> 53:25.430]  And you guys sound great and you make a lot of sense.
[53:25.670 --> 53:34.250]  But my question is, in your personal life, when you go to try to speak to friends, family or whoever, you go into the same arguments that we do.
[53:34.470 --> 53:38.090]  And like, you know, people get all pissed off with what you say.
[53:38.330 --> 53:41.490]  Of course, all the time about almost every subject imaginable.
[53:42.450 --> 53:44.310]  Yeah, just know that you're not alone.
[53:44.450 --> 53:47.830]  And that there are people who share your thoughts, beliefs, feelings.
[53:48.610 --> 54:01.790]  Because like, especially on Facebook, like you see an article or you see a soundbite, you post it on your wall, the next thing you know, you're losing, you know, one or two friends or like people get into arguments over... It seems like we just don't know how to talk about things.
[54:01.910 --> 54:02.270]  Well, okay.
[54:02.390 --> 54:05.530]  First of all, there's no such thing as talking on Facebook.
[54:05.730 --> 54:06.310]  It's not talking.
[54:06.410 --> 54:07.070]  It's something else.
[54:07.390 --> 54:08.170]  It's not the same.
[54:08.350 --> 54:09.370]  Those aren't friends.
[54:09.550 --> 54:11.570]  Those are people who read what you post.
[54:12.150 --> 54:15.170]  Friends are people you see in real life and talk to back and forth.
[54:15.350 --> 54:17.830]  And I don't think you're going to lose any of those by expressing your opinion.
[54:17.890 --> 54:19.830]  And if you do, they're not very good friends.
[54:20.270 --> 54:22.690]  So I wouldn't measure things by what you see online.
[54:22.850 --> 54:23.650]  Online is great.
[54:23.790 --> 54:25.510]  I love online, but it's not real life.
[54:26.450 --> 54:26.830]  All right.
[54:27.030 --> 54:27.350]  Thank you.
[54:27.530 --> 54:27.770]  All right.
[54:27.830 --> 54:28.130]  Take care.
[54:28.450 --> 54:30.970]  I know I sound like an old fart saying that, but it's true.
[54:31.110 --> 54:31.470]  It's true.
[54:31.630 --> 54:32.250]  There's a big difference.
[54:32.950 --> 54:33.110]  Yeah.
[54:33.190 --> 54:42.770]  And I think our whole outlook on things are, you know, is basically why we all ended up here doing this show because these are, this is the way we see things and we like to get the word out.
[54:42.910 --> 54:45.910]  And that doesn't, that doesn't stop happening when we walk out the studio door.
[54:46.050 --> 54:46.630]  Right, right.
[54:46.750 --> 54:48.050]  And we like talking on the radio too.
[54:48.050 --> 54:49.150]  I mean, it's not an IRC channel.
[54:49.410 --> 54:51.730]  I mean, I think also... And greetings to the IRC channel, by the way.
[54:51.870 --> 54:57.410]  I think also, and something I don't do enough of, it's, there's certainly some benefit to talking to people who you disagree with.
[54:58.490 --> 55:00.150]  Either to convert them, if that's a thing.
[55:00.150 --> 55:01.170]  I don't agree with that at all.
[55:01.270 --> 55:03.330]  Or just to hear their point of view.
[55:03.530 --> 55:05.750]  And Emmanuel, your point of view, I don't understand in the slightest.
[55:05.870 --> 55:06.750]  I don't agree with that.
[55:07.390 --> 55:08.350]  Guys, guys, stop fighting.
[55:08.550 --> 55:08.850]  All right.
[55:09.250 --> 55:10.250]  How dare you tell us that?
[55:10.250 --> 55:10.550]  Good evening.
[55:10.630 --> 55:11.630]  You're on Off the Hook.
[55:12.230 --> 55:12.810]  Oh, hello.
[55:13.230 --> 55:24.290]  Yeah, I was just wondering if you guys heard about anything about the recent ruling with the Supreme Court and about cell phones and how they affect and like how they can search them and search and seizure.
[55:24.410 --> 55:28.530]  Yeah, you should rewind the show and listen to us talking about that about 20 minutes ago.
[55:29.190 --> 55:33.090]  We'd get into it again, but yeah, we don't want to repeat ourselves.
[55:33.190 --> 55:35.770]  Unlike other shows, which do repeat themselves every few minutes.
[55:35.890 --> 55:37.410]  We would never do something like that.
[55:37.410 --> 55:38.210]  But yes, we are aware of it.
[55:38.270 --> 55:38.930]  We are aware of it.
[55:39.050 --> 55:41.730]  And we thank you for calling and listen to the show.
[55:42.690 --> 55:44.770]  Yeah, I think that's going to do it for us here tonight.
[55:45.090 --> 55:46.270]  We're pretty much out of time.
[55:46.450 --> 55:49.790]  Any final words, reminders, warnings that people want to share?
[55:50.710 --> 55:51.350]  Happy solstice.
[55:51.850 --> 55:52.450]  Yeah, that's true.
[55:52.550 --> 55:53.130]  It's a solstice.
[55:53.530 --> 55:54.710]  Rob, looks like you have something to say.
[55:54.910 --> 56:00.350]  Well, I've been enjoying some of the things people have been writing to the distributor in question on Twitter.
[56:00.650 --> 56:01.170]  Oh, yeah.
[56:01.430 --> 56:06.030]  Yeah, there are some good things, not all of which I can read on the air, but I just want to say that's what we need.
[56:06.150 --> 56:07.710]  We need your help getting the word out.
[56:07.830 --> 56:11.090]  We're not asking you for donations to pay our bills or anything.
[56:11.310 --> 56:23.950]  But what we do need from our community that we can't get anywhere else is help us spread the word, retweet it, reblog it, do what you can to get the word out there about what's happening, because that's the only way we can get these things solved.
[56:24.030 --> 56:27.750]  And speaking of Facebook, the Enthusiast Network has a Facebook page.
[56:27.970 --> 56:34.650]  It's called facebook.com slash 10enthusiast, not the number 10 spelled out, T-E-N, the Enthusiast Network.
[56:34.890 --> 56:38.730]  Actually, T-E-N, the Enthusiast is what it says on Facebook.
[56:38.910 --> 56:51.730]  So if you have opinions that you want to express to them, either use their Twitter account we mentioned earlier, or their Facebook, or simply follow what's being said on 2600.com concerning what they are doing or not doing.
[56:52.110 --> 56:52.990]  Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[56:54.090 --> 57:06.170]  I just want to remind listeners, if they want to have the most amazing learning experience of their lives, they can go to x.hope.net and register to attend the Hope Conference July 18th through the 20th.
[57:06.290 --> 57:07.110]  They won't regret it.
[57:07.310 --> 57:08.430]  No, they certainly will not.
[57:08.570 --> 57:09.490]  x.hope.net.
[57:10.090 --> 57:10.870]  That's it for us.
[57:10.990 --> 57:11.530]  Write to us.
[57:11.890 --> 57:14.070]  O-T-H at 2600.com.
[57:14.230 --> 57:16.550]  And we will see you, hopefully, next week.
[57:16.690 --> 57:17.210]  Have a good night.
[57:17.790 --> 57:20.930]  If it's true, a rich man leads a sad life.
[57:20.930 --> 57:22.210]  That's what they say.
[57:22.550 --> 57:23.890]  From day to day.
[57:24.790 --> 57:27.710]  And what do all the poor do in their lives?
[57:27.830 --> 57:30.590]  On judgment day, with nothing to say.
[57:31.470 --> 57:32.530]  I've been beat up.
[57:32.970 --> 57:34.290]  I've been thrown out.
[57:34.510 --> 57:35.910]  But I'm not down.
[57:36.390 --> 57:37.690]  Well, I'm not down.
[57:38.510 --> 57:39.570]  I've been choked up.
[57:40.130 --> 57:41.290]  But I've grown up.
[57:41.630 --> 57:42.850]  And I'm not down.
[57:42.850 --> 57:44.410]  No, I'm not down.
[57:44.410 --> 57:44.830]  No, I'm not down.
[57:51.710 --> 57:53.250]  On my own.
[57:53.590 --> 57:55.210]  I've been with a gang of jeering.
[57:55.630 --> 57:56.430]  In the strange streets.
[57:57.450 --> 57:58.250]  Oh, oh.
[57:58.910 --> 58:00.870]  When my nerves are pumping out.
[58:01.070 --> 58:01.970]  I've been fearing.
[58:02.450 --> 58:03.490]  I didn't run.
[58:03.910 --> 58:05.230]  I was not done.
[58:06.230 --> 58:07.350]  I've been beat up.
[58:07.730 --> 58:09.090]  I've been thrown out.
[58:09.310 --> 58:10.670]  But I'm not down.
[58:11.210 --> 58:12.670]  No, I'm not down.
[58:12.670 --> 58:14.450]  And we've shown up.
[58:14.750 --> 58:16.190]  But I've grown up.
[58:16.510 --> 58:17.750]  And I'm not down.
[58:18.270 --> 58:19.750]  No, I'm not down.
[58:28.740 --> 58:30.400]  I've grown up.
[58:30.740 --> 58:31.700]  And I'm not down.
[58:31.700 --> 58:31.700]  No,
[58:35.020 --> 58:35.700]  I'm not down.
[58:35.860 --> 58:37.900]  I'm not down.
[58:38.160 --> 58:39.420]  I'm not down.
[58:41.960 --> 58:49.860]  But I know, there'll be some way, when I can swing everything back my way, like ice scraper.
[58:50.080 --> 58:52.460]  Rising up, blow like blow, I'm giving up.
[58:55.150 --> 59:01.930]  So, you rock around and think that you're the toughest in the world, the whole wide world.
[59:02.570 --> 59:07.210]  But you choose the way from where it gets the roughest, you ain't been there.
[59:09.490 --> 59:16.210]  I've been beat up, I've been thrown out, but I'm not down, no I'm not down.
[59:16.910 --> 59:23.230]  I've been shown up, but I've grown up, but I'm not down, no I'm not down.
[01:00:04.640 --> 01:00:11.240]  I love Off The Hook, because I'm a little off the hook myself.
[01:00:12.160 --> 01:00:17.620]  Alright, this is WBAI New York 99.5 FM, also streaming on the web at WBAI.org.