[00:00.000 --> 00:08.140]  Enjoy breathtaking sightseeing tours of Zimbabwe including the Victoria Falls, one of the seven natural wonders of the world.
[00:08.400 --> 00:18.940]  The tour will climax in Botswana with a two-day experience of Africa's finest wildlife game reserve at Chobi Safari Lodge, situated in Kasani.
[00:18.940 --> 00:28.720]  For payment deadlines and more information, call Nedele at Easy Tours, 914-934-2116.
[00:28.920 --> 00:31.360]  October 3rd is the deadline for payments.
[00:31.640 --> 00:35.200]  Partial proceeds from the tour will benefit WBAI.
[00:36.760 --> 00:44.060]  And this is WBAI New York where the time is just about 7 o'clock on a Wednesday.
[00:44.360 --> 00:46.040]  And that's time for Off the Hook.
[00:52.690 --> 00:55.690]  It's ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:56.770 --> 00:58.630]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:59.230 --> 01:01.170]  Now I can't make a cough.
[01:02.030 --> 01:04.010]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:06.800 --> 01:09.440]  Bum-diddly-bum for the best, it's made the worst.
[01:10.180 --> 01:11.920]  I hope that's understood.
[01:12.160 --> 01:12.940]  Bum-diddly-bum!
[02:02.320 --> 02:03.780]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:03.880 --> 02:04.660]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:04.740 --> 02:06.840]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:07.260 --> 02:08.640]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:08.940 --> 02:09.320]  Hi there.
[02:09.420 --> 02:09.780]  Rob T.
[02:09.900 --> 02:10.340]  Firefly.
[02:10.560 --> 02:10.940]  Good evening.
[02:11.100 --> 02:11.380]  Kyle.
[02:11.380 --> 02:11.420]  Kyle.
[02:11.980 --> 02:15.040]  Hi everybody on the radio and in the... And Bernie S.
[02:17.500 --> 02:18.140]  Bernie S.
[02:18.220 --> 02:19.020]  Not talking, apparently.
[02:19.240 --> 02:19.400]  Wow.
[02:19.600 --> 02:20.700]  Okay, well, there's that.
[02:21.320 --> 02:25.440]  Well, Kyle, you can finish your long, extended intro if you wish while I gather my notes.
[02:26.040 --> 02:28.040]  And everyone listening on the internet stream.
[02:28.760 --> 02:30.220]  Okay, uh, Bernie, are you back?
[02:31.260 --> 02:31.960]  No, he's not.
[02:32.080 --> 02:32.380]  Oh, well.
[02:32.940 --> 02:36.080]  Um, well, you can see all the right buttons are hit.
[02:36.180 --> 02:37.000]  I'm not sure what's going on.
[02:37.000 --> 02:37.520]  I don't know.
[02:37.820 --> 02:39.260]  Uh, let's try calling him back.
[02:39.600 --> 02:41.660]  I don't have time to make telephone calls, Mike.
[02:41.660 --> 02:42.780]  I'm on the radio.
[02:43.180 --> 02:46.920]  I hope you, that you people have something insightful to say while I go over there and make a telephone call.
[02:46.920 --> 02:48.060]  Yeah, we're depending on you for that.
[02:48.140 --> 02:52.840]  But okay, we'll try and, uh, limp along, uh, to find out what's, uh, what's going on in the world.
[02:52.900 --> 02:54.880]  Well, let's go to Australia because that's far away.
[02:55.040 --> 02:56.820]  And that's, uh, about as far away as you can get.
[02:57.540 --> 03:02.900]  Uh, uh, Rob, I think you might have been the person to find this story, uh, about a company called Telstra.
[03:02.900 --> 03:05.580]  And if you're not the person, well, then hopefully you are.
[03:05.680 --> 03:05.980]  I am indeed.
[03:06.220 --> 03:06.480]  You are.
[03:06.580 --> 03:06.880]  Oh, good.
[03:07.020 --> 03:07.120]  Good.
[03:07.680 --> 03:14.900]  Uh, so the federal government, and when you say the federal government, uh, you're on an Australian story, you're actually talking about the Australian federal government.
[03:15.100 --> 03:16.900]  Yes, there are other federal governments, folks.
[03:17.060 --> 03:17.720]  They've got their own one.
[03:17.880 --> 03:18.040]  Yeah.
[03:18.220 --> 03:30.720]  Uh, now apparently, um, they have, um, have been, um, allowing law enforcement, uh, to access Australia's web browsing histories without the nuisance of a warrant.
[03:31.000 --> 03:31.820]  Uh, yeah.
[03:32.220 --> 03:39.580]  Access to phone and internet data held by telecommunications companies, uh, has been a subject of much debate recently around the world, I suppose.
[03:40.160 --> 03:45.500]  Um, the government is seeking to extend the power of intelligence and law enforcement agencies to fight.
[03:46.260 --> 03:46.620]  Okay.
[03:46.700 --> 03:47.260]  Who wants to guess?
[03:47.540 --> 03:49.280]  It's either child porn or terrorism.
[03:49.280 --> 03:50.660]  Child terrorism.
[03:50.940 --> 03:51.420]  Uh, okay.
[03:51.580 --> 03:53.080]  Well, that's, that covers everything.
[03:53.260 --> 03:56.740]  Uh, it's terrorism in this case, terrorism and crime, just basic crime.
[03:56.940 --> 04:02.420]  Uh, it has proposed telcos retain customers' metadata for up to two years for investigation.
[04:02.640 --> 04:13.300]  However, however, spy agency ASIO and federal police have given assurances that data on what websites Australians visit, known as web history, could only be obtained with warrants.
[04:13.360 --> 04:24.460]  But now, a paper published by the Parliamentary Library Monday revealed an industry practice of providing website addresses, known as URLs, to law enforcement without warrants.
[04:24.680 --> 04:29.180]  Now, Telstra confirmed on Tuesday evening it had provided URLs to agencies without a warrant.
[04:29.180 --> 04:34.840]  In rare cases, it did not name the agencies or how many times it provided information.
[04:35.080 --> 04:41.620]  The last time we did so was in relation to a life-threatening situation involving a child more than 12 months ago.
[04:41.740 --> 04:45.140]  So you have the save the children, uh, uh, a sentiment being expressed there.
[04:45.740 --> 04:49.220]  Um, is this, is this something that, uh, is, is, is newsworthy?
[04:49.260 --> 04:50.260]  Is it something that's unusual?
[04:50.540 --> 04:53.020]  Because it seems to me the same thing is going on all over the place.
[04:53.160 --> 04:56.200]  I mean, it's unusual that they're being so nice as to talk about it.
[04:56.380 --> 04:58.120]  Usually they just kind of do it quietly.
[04:58.680 --> 05:09.140]  Well, I'm, I'm reminded of what we talked about last week, just for a couple of minutes, about Google, uh, giving information to law enforcement because there were images of child pornography in somebody's Gmail account.
[05:09.440 --> 05:14.680]  Um, I think Gmail actually came forward without any law enforcement, um, uh, request.
[05:14.920 --> 05:17.040]  They, they sort of, um, did that on their own.
[05:17.480 --> 05:21.540]  Is this very different when there's a, a child's life in the balance?
[05:21.740 --> 05:27.260]  Uh, someone comes to Telstra and says, Hey, uh, can you give us this and can we skip the whole warrant thing?
[05:27.320 --> 05:28.820]  Because that's just a real pain in the ass.
[05:29.300 --> 05:29.700]  Yeah.
[05:29.760 --> 05:31.740]  Well, of course it's the, it's the old slippery slope thing.
[05:31.840 --> 05:38.820]  You know, the minute you start going, okay, we'll, uh, we'll, you know, set due process aside just for this one special thing, because this is special, that quickly becomes the routine.
[05:40.080 --> 05:44.520]  I mean, most of these laws generally have exceptions for, for genuine emergencies.
[05:44.760 --> 05:53.220]  The question is if this is a genuine emergency, whereas a life was genuinely in the balance for the, you know, half hour it would have taken to get a warrant.
[05:53.780 --> 05:59.020]  Uh, once a year, that sort of emergency coming up actually doesn't bother me that much.
[05:59.220 --> 06:03.080]  Um, if, if they're telling the truth about the frequency and the circumstances.
[06:03.420 --> 06:05.080]  Well, uh, once a year, okay.
[06:05.080 --> 06:05.980]  But this is a big story.
[06:06.120 --> 06:07.300]  This is getting headlines everywhere.
[06:07.540 --> 06:10.300]  So I am under the impression it's happening more than once a year.
[06:10.640 --> 06:11.400]  I mean, that's the thing.
[06:11.640 --> 06:24.700]  Like, uh, we, we saw this, you know, every time any new NSA revelation came out and, um, you know, we saw a clapper in Congress was the best example of this where he was the liar, you clapper, the liar.
[06:24.920 --> 06:30.260]  Well, clapper, the full name clapper, the occasional truth teller where he was asked, do you, do you collect data?
[06:30.260 --> 06:39.100]  And he would say something true, which is we don't collect it under this program, which is not an answer to the question, but might've been a true statement, but he collects it under all kinds of other programs.
[06:39.240 --> 06:42.780]  And it redefines collect to mean things that people who speak English don't think it means.
[06:43.220 --> 06:50.660]  So if these are truly the limits of this program, that's one thing, but what other programs are in place?
[06:50.820 --> 06:52.020]  And that's what I would like to know.
[06:53.100 --> 06:57.580]  Yeah, we've, we've had too much of a routine of hearing just a one little thing here and there.
[06:57.680 --> 07:00.480]  And it turns out there's many more going on behind the scenes that nobody has heard about.
[07:00.720 --> 07:04.260]  And so if this is truly a case of a one-time thing, that's one thing.
[07:04.380 --> 07:10.860]  But, but you know, I, I haven't come from an environment in which it's generally okay to assume that it is just this one thing.
[07:12.020 --> 07:21.000]  Also worth bringing up with these issues is the possibility of other crimes being revealed in all that data being sort of open to scrutiny.
[07:22.080 --> 07:32.380]  That our, our crime is probably not, not under the, the classification of what access to this data would, would allow.
[07:32.700 --> 07:42.760]  So it's not terrorism, but we're going to drag you or several other people through something because, well, it was there and we, we had a good enough reason to look through this.
[07:43.200 --> 07:45.660]  Well, how long does it take to get a warrant in the first place?
[07:45.800 --> 07:51.760]  Is it really that difficult, that hard, that time consuming that they can't just go through the process, even if a life is in the balance?
[07:52.040 --> 07:55.700]  I've seen, you know, I've watched the TV shows and, and they get them overnight.
[07:55.840 --> 07:59.080]  They wake people up and they get the warrants and they're able to do things almost immediately.
[07:59.240 --> 08:08.820]  So it seems to me, this is something that's, um, um, more like disdain for the whole process and a way of, uh, of saying, you know what, we don't need to do this whenever we feel like it.
[08:08.880 --> 08:09.200]  Yes, Bernie?
[08:10.240 --> 08:20.720]  Yeah, I think the legal term is exigent circumstances, where if there is a life in the balance or something equally urgent, they don't need a warrant right away.
[08:20.980 --> 08:22.080]  They can get it later.
[08:22.300 --> 08:25.200]  And there's a lot of exceptions, as I think Mike is aware.
[08:25.440 --> 08:26.780]  Uh, there's a lot of exceptions.
[08:27.040 --> 08:34.660]  Law enforcement, they can, they can do the tap first and get the warrant within, I think like 30 days or something.
[08:35.020 --> 08:54.220]  Um, but they can't use anything in the meantime, if, uh, if, uh, it turns out that the, uh, warrant wasn't, uh, properly worded, but that opens up a problem where if they just do the wiretap first and then do a warrant based on what they heard in the wiretap that didn't have a warrant in the first place and construct a warrant based on what they heard without a warrant,
[08:54.420 --> 08:56.320]  it opens up all kinds of abuse.
[08:57.120 --> 09:03.680]  Of course, I'd, I'd love to hear what any of our Australian, uh, listeners have to say about this and what, what you can tell us about the general reaction down there.
[09:03.860 --> 09:05.280]  We do have a lot of Australian listeners.
[09:05.380 --> 09:06.820]  Unfortunately, a lot of them listen tomorrow.
[09:07.320 --> 09:10.620]  Well, it already is tomorrow But a lot of them listen... they're sleeping now.
[09:10.780 --> 09:11.640]  Not really.
[09:11.760 --> 09:12.720]  I guess it's 7 in the morning.
[09:13.220 --> 09:15.200]  Some of them are... some of them might be listening live.
[09:15.280 --> 09:15.520]  You know what?
[09:15.520 --> 09:17.920]  Call us later if you're listening live and you're in Australia.
[09:18.120 --> 09:20.580]  So we'd like to hear your perspective for sure.
[09:20.780 --> 09:23.400]  And if you're not listening live, OTH at 2600.com.
[09:23.460 --> 09:23.880]  Get in touch.
[09:24.120 --> 09:24.500]  Yes.
[09:25.180 --> 09:27.880]  I'd love to know more about the hacker world in Australia.
[09:28.160 --> 09:29.860]  You know, that's one continent I have not been to.
[09:30.080 --> 09:34.080]  And I know there are many, many... we had some come to the Hope Conference.
[09:34.320 --> 09:35.840]  So they're all over the place.
[09:37.100 --> 09:37.680]  All right.
[09:37.820 --> 09:41.020]  So we also have an anniversary coming up.
[09:41.160 --> 09:44.500]  I don't know if you folks realize this, but it's exactly 10 years ago this week.
[09:44.620 --> 09:51.880]  It's not really that exact, but this week, sometime this week, 10 years ago, Google made its first initial public offering.
[09:52.280 --> 09:59.780]  And the company set out to chart a new course, which redefined how the world reacts, interacts, and utilizes technology.
[10:00.700 --> 10:03.280]  Now, this is an article that just came out tonight, actually.
[10:03.280 --> 10:08.160]  Google's 10 Things, which helped our lives since its IPO 10 years ago.
[10:08.320 --> 10:11.700]  Now, it's a simple exercise here in the studio that I'd like people to participate in.
[10:11.880 --> 10:21.480]  I'm going to point to these 10 things, and one of us in the studio is going to tear them down and indicate that they are not that great to start with.
[10:21.580 --> 10:22.560]  Can you guys up for this?
[10:22.640 --> 10:23.040]  Can you do this?
[10:23.160 --> 10:25.800]  How much is Google paying us for this piece, and how much is my cut?
[10:26.140 --> 10:27.320]  You're tearing them down.
[10:27.760 --> 10:28.440]  You understand?
[10:28.440 --> 10:29.620]  That's a negative thing.
[10:29.760 --> 10:31.640]  But we're talking about their financials.
[10:31.640 --> 10:32.880]  I don't care about their financials.
[10:32.900 --> 10:34.100]  We're not talking about their financials.
[10:34.140 --> 10:37.140]  We're talking about their developments, how they've changed our lives.
[10:37.640 --> 10:39.300]  And our lives have been changed.
[10:39.860 --> 10:41.360]  What's that you're holding in your hand, Mike?
[10:41.480 --> 10:42.480]  What kind of phone is that?
[10:42.600 --> 10:43.900]  This is an HTC phone.
[10:43.900 --> 10:45.320]  It's an Android phone, is it not?
[10:45.460 --> 10:46.160]  We'll get to that.
[10:46.240 --> 10:46.880]  We'll get to that.
[10:47.740 --> 10:48.800]  Okay, so let's see.
[10:49.140 --> 10:50.100]  What's the first thing?
[10:51.880 --> 10:52.680]  Hang on, hang on.
[10:52.920 --> 10:54.200]  This article is all over the place.
[10:54.340 --> 10:57.760]  I can't tell the ads from the actual content here.
[10:57.800 --> 10:58.560]  And neither can I.
[10:58.560 --> 11:00.600]  Yeah, well, I haven't gotten to the content yet.
[11:02.640 --> 11:03.340]  Let's see.
[11:04.780 --> 11:05.680]  That's a picture of a car.
[11:05.760 --> 11:07.000]  Okay, Google Shopping Express.
[11:08.080 --> 11:09.160]  I'd never use that.
[11:09.260 --> 11:11.160]  Has anyone here used Google Shopping Express?
[11:11.280 --> 11:12.280]  I don't even know what that is.
[11:12.580 --> 11:14.060]  I'm not entirely sure what that is.
[11:14.100 --> 11:15.320]  What do you need Google to shop for?
[11:16.020 --> 11:17.220]  Express buses, maybe.
[11:17.440 --> 11:18.240]  Okay, that's one.
[11:18.400 --> 11:19.380]  Okay, no one uses that.
[11:19.440 --> 11:20.900]  No one seems to use that around here.
[11:21.580 --> 11:22.780]  Google Maps is terrible.
[11:23.060 --> 11:23.120]  Google Maps.
[11:23.340 --> 11:23.980]  Hang on, hang on.
[11:24.140 --> 11:25.100]  Let's not speed through this.
[11:25.100 --> 11:26.420]  Let's not speed through it.
[11:26.600 --> 11:27.220]  You don't need to take time.
[11:27.440 --> 11:28.280]  Google Maps.
[11:28.700 --> 11:32.720]  Remember how you ended up on the wrong side of the city because you held the map upside down?
[11:33.360 --> 11:34.520]  No, I've never done that.
[11:34.580 --> 11:36.480]  I can read because the words are in the right direction.
[11:37.460 --> 11:40.420]  Google Maps has made the maps and atlases outdated.
[11:41.200 --> 11:43.480]  Google Maps went live in February 2005.
[11:44.300 --> 11:45.480]  Well, you know what, Google Maps?
[11:46.020 --> 11:48.140]  You still don't understand Queens, all right?
[11:48.180 --> 11:54.240]  Every time I plug an address into Queens that has a dash in it, you subtract the number and get me someplace I don't want to go.
[11:54.400 --> 11:56.080]  To be fair, no one understands Queens.
[11:56.260 --> 11:58.640]  You know, all right, you can deal with the phone calls for that.
[12:00.100 --> 12:06.480]  But as far as being able to drive, you know, the 2600 van, God bless its soul, is a commercial vehicle, okay?
[12:06.480 --> 12:09.360]  It's a phone company van, and we have to have commercial plates on it.
[12:09.500 --> 12:12.120]  You can't take certain roads when you're a commercial vehicle.
[12:12.220 --> 12:13.200]  You can't take parkways.
[12:13.620 --> 12:22.000]  There is no option in Google Maps to get you someplace, and usually when I'm lost, I'm in the 2600 van, without going onto these roads, you're not allowed to go on.
[12:22.000 --> 12:28.620]  Also, Google Maps seems to have an interest in making you go over as many toll paths as possible, even when they're out of the way.
[12:28.780 --> 12:30.520]  So, yeah, it's not really...
[12:30.520 --> 12:31.840]  You know, I'll go back to a map someday.
[12:31.980 --> 12:34.020]  Wait, I can do better than that at criticism of Google Maps.
[12:34.020 --> 12:34.820]  Please, I know you can.
[12:34.920 --> 12:44.480]  They have a feature of Google Maps where you can suggest corrections and improvements and edit the map in your part of the world if you think it's wrong.
[12:44.780 --> 12:53.420]  And what's interesting about that is that then Google owns your work that you've provided to them for free without any compensation.
[12:53.760 --> 12:54.620]  What work is that exactly?
[12:55.020 --> 12:55.640]  Fixing the map.
[12:55.860 --> 12:56.600]  Of a street or something?
[12:57.080 --> 13:03.060]  I mean, once it sent me the wrong way down a one-way street, and I went in and fixed it, and I did not get paid for that.
[13:03.200 --> 13:08.820]  And I can't even use the data for my own purposes, unlike competing projects like OpenStreetMap.
[13:08.940 --> 13:13.160]  Kyle, do you remember the time we were in the Bronx and we wanted to transfer, we wanted to get someplace else?
[13:13.160 --> 13:24.120]  And it had us getting off a train and going outside, walking across the street, paying another fare to get onto the train going the other direction, and then going to a stop that was a mile away from where we wanted to go.
[13:24.200 --> 13:28.600]  And we could have just stayed on the same train and been within a few blocks of where we wanted to go.
[13:28.720 --> 13:29.460]  That was fun, wasn't it?
[13:30.560 --> 13:30.880]  Yes.
[13:31.320 --> 13:31.620]  All right.
[13:32.500 --> 13:33.200]  Let's move on.
[13:33.200 --> 13:45.080]  On Loon for All, in its quest to spread the internet all over the globe, even in the remotest corners of the planet, Google envisages to use balloons to serve as a platform to provide internet access.
[13:45.080 --> 13:47.180]  This plan was unveiled in 2013.
[13:47.520 --> 13:57.260]  The Project Loon website says, we believe it's possible to create a ring of balloons that fly around the globe on the stratospheric winds and provide internet access to the earth below.
[13:57.480 --> 14:02.580]  Balloons present some really hard science problems, but we're excited about the progress so far.
[14:03.480 --> 14:13.160]  This sounds like something, like an ill-fated science project in sixth grade, but I actually, I kind of feel enthusiastic about this one.
[14:13.340 --> 14:13.880]  What do you think?
[14:14.000 --> 14:18.080]  I think that project was actually headed up by the Wizard of Oz, and apparently he can't come back.
[14:18.080 --> 14:18.980]  He don't know how it works.
[14:20.000 --> 14:20.360]  All right.
[14:20.460 --> 14:22.700]  I guess it's as much as we're going to tear that idea down.
[14:23.820 --> 14:24.640]  I don't know.
[14:25.100 --> 14:26.960]  I know you don't like balloons very much.
[14:28.060 --> 14:32.900]  Well, are these balloons with cameras on them that grab navigation?
[14:33.920 --> 14:34.640]  Or imagery?
[14:34.960 --> 14:37.620]  Well, they don't say anything about the cameras, but then again, they never do, do they?
[14:39.420 --> 14:41.180]  So, I haven't seen this story.
[14:41.320 --> 14:42.700]  This is balloons put up by whom?
[14:43.140 --> 14:44.320]  By Google, of course.
[14:44.960 --> 14:45.240]  Okay.
[14:45.400 --> 14:46.180]  These are Google balloons.
[14:46.700 --> 14:57.320]  Well, my guess is if they're Google balloons, they have cameras on them and they have radio intercept equipment to sniff Wi-Fi signals, as they've been doing in vehicles for a long time.
[14:57.520 --> 14:58.600]  Oh, that's a cheap shot.
[14:58.940 --> 14:59.320]  Yes.
[14:59.660 --> 15:01.940]  Well, it is, but they've gotten busted for it.
[15:02.080 --> 15:03.780]  Way to kick a corporation when it's down.
[15:03.920 --> 15:04.440]  Okay, fine.
[15:04.440 --> 15:28.180]  So, yeah, these are, basically, these are surveillance satellites, these Google balloons, because there are almost certainly cameras and GPS and probably Wi-Fi equipment to detect, you know, the, you know, hotspots for further, you know, granular geolocation information.
[15:28.740 --> 15:32.040]  So, I'm surprised they're using them, because they can't really direct them like cars.
[15:32.180 --> 15:37.120]  Cars, you can, they Google cars with cameras on them, they can tell them exactly where to go.
[15:37.260 --> 15:38.740]  Hey, we saw one of those on the way in today.
[15:38.780 --> 15:40.280]  First time I've ever seen a Google car.
[15:40.360 --> 15:40.580]  Oh, yeah?
[15:40.740 --> 15:44.600]  Yeah, it was somewhere in the Bronx, I believe, or, yeah, it was in the Bronx.
[15:44.920 --> 15:47.200]  I wonder if any of them have ever been stolen, do you think?
[15:48.080 --> 15:51.120]  I don't know, but what would you gain from that?
[15:51.120 --> 15:53.260]  You'd still be painting an accurate picture of what's around you.
[15:54.000 --> 15:57.040]  I'm sure they would have a helmet in it rather quickly.
[15:57.040 --> 16:00.240]  They probably have all sorts of tracking of these vehicles.
[16:00.480 --> 16:02.500]  But how would they control where the balloons go?
[16:02.640 --> 16:04.160]  They're just, it's a whim of the wind.
[16:04.560 --> 16:06.680]  The stratosphere is pretty, pretty high up.
[16:07.360 --> 16:07.800]  Uh-huh.
[16:07.900 --> 16:09.100]  That's why it's called the stratosphere.
[16:09.420 --> 16:09.760]  Yeah.
[16:10.160 --> 16:11.640]  So, it would be difficult.
[16:11.720 --> 16:15.300]  I think we've, we've, we've poo-pooed that one as much as we possibly can.
[16:15.320 --> 16:16.220]  Let's move on to an easy one.
[16:16.300 --> 16:16.800]  Google Glass.
[16:16.960 --> 16:17.920]  I don't even have to describe this.
[16:18.360 --> 16:21.000]  Someone say something about Google Glass, we can move on to number five.
[16:21.200 --> 16:22.100]  It looks stupid.
[16:22.700 --> 16:23.660]  It works stupid.
[16:24.220 --> 16:24.900]  All right, fine.
[16:24.900 --> 16:25.780]  Uh, Chrome.
[16:26.220 --> 16:30.800]  It's five years since Chrome was released and already it boasts over 750 million users.
[16:31.000 --> 16:39.540]  A browser which also offers offline access to their Gmail, calendar, and documents attracting more and more fans of an archaic internet explorer.
[16:40.320 --> 16:40.880]  No.
[16:42.100 --> 16:43.360]  What do you mean no?
[16:43.600 --> 16:44.540]  It's crap.
[16:44.840 --> 16:45.240]  Uh-huh.
[16:45.240 --> 16:47.120]  I mean, I, I tried it once.
[16:47.440 --> 16:50.580]  I tried the Chrome once and I don't like it.
[16:50.680 --> 16:52.480]  How many users did you say that was?
[16:52.780 --> 16:53.640]  750 million.
[16:53.880 --> 16:54.020]  Okay.
[16:54.120 --> 16:58.560]  Are we sure that's not just one user that has 750 million instances of Chrome.exe running?
[16:58.840 --> 16:59.020]  Yeah.
[16:59.160 --> 17:00.880]  You know, that, that's the thing that gets me.
[17:00.980 --> 17:04.680]  When you start it up, uh, every time you open a tab, that's another process running.
[17:04.800 --> 17:08.000]  And before you know it, you have a zillion of them and they seem to multiply.
[17:08.000 --> 17:10.420]  Yes, it's a great application for crippling your computer.
[17:10.740 --> 17:13.200]  Uh, so, I mean, I, I think the, the product is fine.
[17:13.340 --> 17:13.620]  Um...
[17:13.620 --> 17:14.440]  Well, you can't say that.
[17:14.520 --> 17:15.180]  I can't say that.
[17:15.260 --> 17:16.320]  I mean, see, I...
[17:16.320 --> 17:17.040]  Oh my God.
[17:17.400 --> 17:21.100]  Uh, but, but, uh, look, Google has a lot of smart engineers working for them.
[17:21.100 --> 17:21.800]  Another compliment.
[17:21.940 --> 17:22.120]  Two compliments in ten seconds.
[17:22.120 --> 17:23.480]  I don't, I don't understand what's the point.
[17:23.740 --> 17:25.500]  Uh, if you'll stop interrupting me, I'll get to the point.
[17:26.120 --> 17:26.440]  Um...
[17:26.440 --> 17:27.920]  The point is to tear down Google.
[17:28.040 --> 17:28.580]  But, okay, go ahead.
[17:28.880 --> 17:37.380]  But, but, I mean, I, you, they're building this, uh, so that they can have better integration with your, with you, with your life, so that they can sell you more ads.
[17:37.380 --> 17:41.760]  Um, I prefer to use even, I, I think it's a pretty good product.
[17:42.000 --> 17:43.340]  Firefox is what I use instead.
[17:43.340 --> 17:54.520]  But even in cases, uh, where sometimes it doesn't do what I want, I, I can trust that Firefox has most of the time, not all the time, unfortunately, but most of the time has my interest at heart.
[17:54.640 --> 17:56.280]  And Google doesn't.
[17:56.540 --> 18:03.980]  Yeah, well, Firefox does run away sometimes with process, 1.6 gigs of, of, of, of memory it was using last I checked.
[18:03.980 --> 18:06.360]  So I have to occasionally shut it down and restart it.
[18:06.360 --> 18:07.880]  But, uh, I agree.
[18:08.020 --> 18:18.100]  I think, um, I get the feeling that Firefox is more concerned with, uh, with its users' well-being, uh, just from the things that they support, the way they speak to their users, uh, that sort of thing.
[18:18.340 --> 18:18.580]  Rob?
[18:18.720 --> 18:24.300]  Of course, without Google Chrome, we wouldn't have the legitimately free and open Chromium, uh, fork of that browser.
[18:24.520 --> 18:25.980]  So it does have that going for it.
[18:26.080 --> 18:29.160]  I think you're going off on a tangent that we aren't prepared to talk about right now.
[18:29.360 --> 18:31.120]  Google Street View, we sort of covered that already.
[18:31.120 --> 18:37.360]  But, uh, well, what do you guys think about, um, uh, people having their faces blurred out whenever they're captured on Google Street View?
[18:37.700 --> 18:38.420]  Is that something?
[18:38.620 --> 18:44.500]  What entertains me about that is that, uh, faces not only on people, but in signs and posters and things like that are also blurred out.
[18:44.600 --> 18:44.760]  Really?
[18:44.760 --> 18:51.320]  If you go to, if you look up a KFC restaurant, the colonel's face on the sign will be blurred out to protect, uh, his long-dead privacy.
[18:51.480 --> 19:02.940]  Well, is that because of software that Google uses that recognizes facial, I mean, I don't know how they would think that's a face, but, uh, it, it, I've, someone's not sitting there looking at all the faces saying, oh yeah, we got to get rid of this guy.
[19:03.540 --> 19:05.300]  No, it's, it's, uh, it's a software.
[19:05.640 --> 19:06.020]  Uh-huh.
[19:06.140 --> 19:06.580]  It's software.
[19:06.700 --> 19:06.860]  Okay.
[19:07.020 --> 19:08.020]  And license plates, too.
[19:08.200 --> 19:09.480]  They, they blur out license plates.
[19:09.780 --> 19:12.060]  And, uh, some people want their homes blurred out.
[19:12.060 --> 19:19.120]  Uh, you know, when, when people start getting their homes blurred out, sort of takes away the whole purpose of the, of, of the product in the first place, doesn't it?
[19:19.340 --> 19:25.600]  Uh, of course, uh, then, then, uh, if you blur out your home, doesn't that just develop more interest when people see your house blurred out and they want to know what's there?
[19:25.620 --> 19:27.640]  Yeah, that's why Dick Cheney is getting so many visitors now.
[19:28.100 --> 19:29.680]  Uh, okay, number seven is Android.
[19:29.980 --> 19:30.820]  Google introduced Android.
[19:30.820 --> 19:31.680]  Oh, you skipped one.
[19:32.000 --> 19:32.380]  I did?
[19:32.940 --> 19:33.980]  Well, then I'll go back to it.
[19:34.060 --> 19:34.700]  All right, I'm, thank you.
[19:35.100 --> 19:39.580]  Uh, Google introduced Android, the first open platform for mobile devices in 2007.
[19:39.580 --> 19:46.380]  Uh, Google amply supported by outside developers have been continuously innovating and expanding the platform's capabilities.
[19:46.800 --> 19:50.220]  Um, okay, this is going to be a tough one because Android phones are kind of neat.
[19:50.540 --> 19:53.260]  So who can say something to tear it down a little bit?
[19:53.420 --> 20:04.720]  I mean, I think it's the same criticism that applies to, to the other ones and to the company as a whole, which is that they, uh, you know, they lock down certain parts of the platform in order to better track you and sell you ads.
[20:04.720 --> 20:14.660]  And, uh, they make it very, they have an open platform, but they make it, uh, very difficult to develop for any of the non-Google versions of their platform.
[20:14.920 --> 20:16.320]  And, and how do they make it difficult?
[20:17.020 --> 20:27.520]  Um, they offer, uh, additional services that, that work better than the platform default ones that a lot of developers, uh, rely on.
[20:27.640 --> 20:31.760]  Any penalties for doing something with the phone, uh, rooting it or anything like that?
[20:32.020 --> 20:33.200]  No, they don't usually do that.
[20:33.200 --> 20:33.520]  Okay.
[20:33.880 --> 20:37.020]  So it's better than, than, uh, iPhones on that regard.
[20:37.220 --> 20:44.020]  I mean, better is a whole, a whole world of, of, of relative, but they're certainly, they're certainly more open than the iPhone.
[20:44.840 --> 20:45.240]  Okay.
[20:45.360 --> 20:47.800]  Well, as I said, that one's a difficult one to tear down.
[20:47.980 --> 20:48.560]  How about this?
[20:48.660 --> 20:49.740]  I, I didn't know about this one.
[20:49.840 --> 20:51.780]  Project ARA, is that how you pronounce it?
[20:51.960 --> 20:52.580]  A-R-A?
[20:53.200 --> 20:58.240]  It's an affordable smartphone with swappable and customizable hardware.
[20:58.240 --> 20:59.920]  No, no, no.
[20:59.920 --> 21:00.680]  It's so stupid.
[21:01.040 --> 21:02.560]  No, that is what it is, right?
[21:02.700 --> 21:03.940]  Yeah, that is what it is.
[21:04.100 --> 21:25.560]  But it's, it's a bad idea because the reason SMD works and, um, and, um, we have things built and, um, uh, designed, um, once and not modular is to save, uh, resources and well, be more deliberate in what you're creating with your electronics.
[21:26.000 --> 21:33.200]  And to make stuff modular like that, you would be replacing stuff all the time and probably creating much more waste than you ever thought you'd save.
[21:34.320 --> 21:34.520]  Okay.
[21:34.620 --> 21:35.040]  Dumb idea.
[21:35.620 --> 21:36.260]  Dumb idea.
[21:36.560 --> 21:37.080]  We, we, uh, okay.
[21:37.180 --> 21:38.220]  We seem to reach a consensus.
[21:38.500 --> 21:41.940]  I'm still not entirely clear on the whole thing, but, uh, I'll accept that.
[21:42.020 --> 21:47.040]  Uh, Chromecast, number nine, Chromecast, an effort to enter the lucrative TV market.
[21:47.200 --> 21:51.280]  Google introduced its Chromecast, OS, which is the size of a wafers packet.
[21:51.600 --> 21:58.980]  All you need to do is simply plug into an HDTV, connect to the internet, and then control what's on the screen with an existing smartphone, tablet, or laptop.
[21:59.320 --> 22:08.780]  So this is like a thumb drive, but it, it connects to your TV and, and run some sort of OS and, and also it's, it's similar to the product we were talking about the other week.
[22:09.020 --> 22:11.660]  Uh, one of those streaming devices by, uh, Western Digital.
[22:12.520 --> 22:22.920]  Um, but it, it's, uh, the, the, the Chrome, Chrome version or whatnot, but it allows you to access, I guess, your play account and whatever, uh, media you have.
[22:23.280 --> 22:30.340]  And I guess stream it from your device, whether that be a tablet or a Chromebook or whatever they want you to be using.
[22:30.460 --> 22:36.960]  But it's, again, them creating hardware to, um, work with other devices that you presumably get.
[22:37.020 --> 22:37.660]  Tear it down, Kai.
[22:37.740 --> 22:38.300]  You gotta tear it down.
[22:38.420 --> 22:39.620]  That's, that's the point of the exercise.
[22:39.620 --> 22:41.200]  Is this, is this a bad idea or?
[22:41.680 --> 22:43.680]  Um, yeah, I don't know.
[22:43.760 --> 22:44.800]  I think it's stupid.
[22:45.500 --> 22:48.340]  I think it's stupid because it's, I think it's USB based.
[22:48.340 --> 22:50.240]  It's not, um, HDMI.
[22:50.920 --> 22:53.660]  So maybe the signal quality is worse.
[22:53.900 --> 22:54.560]  I don't know.
[22:54.680 --> 22:55.500]  I haven't ever used it.
[22:55.580 --> 22:56.440]  Has anyone used it?
[22:56.940 --> 22:57.260]  Yeah.
[22:57.900 --> 22:58.600]  Oh, you've used it?
[22:58.640 --> 22:59.080]  I've used it.
[22:59.080 --> 22:59.280]  Okay.
[22:59.380 --> 23:03.300]  Only for, uh, for very specific purposes, um, at work, but.
[23:03.440 --> 23:04.020]  Did it work?
[23:04.880 --> 23:08.040]  It, it, they have recently added the feature I wanted them to add.
[23:08.260 --> 23:09.700]  But it didn't work when you tried to use it.
[23:10.120 --> 23:10.740]  Oh, now it works.
[23:10.880 --> 23:11.500]  Yeah, but it didn't work.
[23:11.620 --> 23:12.460]  I'm trying to get through.
[23:12.460 --> 23:12.800]  All right.
[23:13.400 --> 23:14.380]  It didn't work then.
[23:14.660 --> 23:15.520]  The thing, the product doesn't work.
[23:15.580 --> 23:15.880]  Okay, great.
[23:16.080 --> 23:17.680]  I mean, how much am I getting paid for this?
[23:17.680 --> 23:18.100]  I don't know.
[23:18.220 --> 23:25.480]  And the final, the final, uh, Google product that's supposed to change our lives over the last 10 years is, uh, self-driving cars.
[23:26.100 --> 23:31.420]  They're not allowed to be operated on the roads yet, but they unveiled their, uh, first self-driving car in May.
[23:32.900 --> 23:40.480]  The, uh, company has been working on an autonomous driving system for some years now and feels that it will remove the burden of travel for many.
[23:41.060 --> 23:49.740]  Um, the benefits will be very helpful for the compromised and the elderly and also in a lighter vein, the inebriated because drunk driving is just so funny.
[23:50.140 --> 23:53.080]  Already the car has logged more than half a million miles.
[23:53.480 --> 23:57.340]  Uh, well, I think there's more than one car, but, um, all right.
[23:57.460 --> 24:00.500]  Uh, I, I know there was some, some anti-drivers here.
[24:00.720 --> 24:02.520]  So, uh, this might be a hard one to tear down.
[24:02.640 --> 24:04.920]  And anyone want to say anything to tear down this idea?
[24:05.140 --> 24:12.300]  I mean, I'll say anything that gets more, more private vehicles on the road is, is bad for the earth, uh, bad for the world, bad for people's safety.
[24:12.440 --> 24:22.360]  But on the other hand, as we've said before, humans do such an awful job at driving cars that, um, maybe fewer lives will be lost in the short term until we, you know, run out of energy.
[24:23.740 --> 24:24.140]  Yeah.
[24:24.320 --> 24:30.540]  Even, even the, uh, best pieces of equipment that I use, uh, every so often will malfunction or, uh, crash, so to speak.
[24:30.960 --> 24:34.780]  And, uh, none of them send a several ton block of metal at me when it does.
[24:34.980 --> 24:37.940]  So I, I don't know if, uh, automating cars is such a great idea.
[24:38.480 --> 24:39.580]  I'm with Rob on that.
[24:39.660 --> 24:55.360]  I think a lot of, um, there's a lot of stuff that's going to be coming out and has been in the last couple of years with CAN bus and, and stuff and, and, uh, people are modifying and, um, alter and wanting to get more access and understand, um, how different cars are working,
[24:55.500 --> 24:58.180]  especially like a lot of the new hybrids and things like that.
[24:58.660 --> 25:04.020]  Um, we've talked about this, like with regard to the right to repair act and, and other things like that.
[25:04.140 --> 25:09.980]  Um, and just anecdotally hearing from people about some of the newer cars, how, how much they're gamifying.
[25:09.980 --> 25:12.980]  I think we heard someone, uh, use that word.
[25:12.980 --> 25:16.660]  And it's really interesting how people are getting like a leaf or like electric cars.
[25:16.660 --> 25:22.060]  And they're basically like these full, like entertainment systems with wheels.
[25:22.360 --> 25:28.380]  And, um, and it's, it's like a, just a big glorified RC car and you plug it in.
[25:28.500 --> 25:35.680]  And I don't know, I just think it's getting more, um, people on the road that aren't as committed to the responsibility of driving.
[25:35.880 --> 25:54.720]  And I would also, um, uh, point out that it, Google's not the first, um, to, well, to develop this kind of, well, the technology maybe, but the concept, I mean, there've been buses and trains forever and there are plenty of other people working on autonomous driving things.
[25:54.940 --> 26:04.660]  This is not something unique to Google that they just, you know, brought down from, from, uh, Google utopia and release to the world.
[26:04.760 --> 26:08.740]  Well, they're the ones that seem to have a shot at actually having these things on the roads.
[26:08.780 --> 26:10.500]  And that's, that's why I think it's a difference.
[26:10.720 --> 26:11.180]  Yeah.
[26:11.500 --> 26:12.840]  Maybe they're better.
[26:12.980 --> 26:18.160]  They'll be better at lobbying and getting the political, um, momentum in the right direction.
[26:18.160 --> 26:20.880]  But it's, I don't know.
[26:20.880 --> 26:23.400]  I don't think it's terribly unique what they're, what they're developing.
[26:23.540 --> 26:29.260]  A lot of people are concerned about this and I don't know, there are people, there are different ideas for how to do this around the world.
[26:29.440 --> 26:39.620]  And I think, um, it really, like Mike said, it's, it's more of a bandaid temporarily on infrastructure that probably needs to be completely redone anyway.
[26:39.900 --> 26:47.860]  Uh, like I was mentioning trains, there's plenty of, of places in the world we can point to that have excellent light rail and mass transit.
[26:47.860 --> 26:56.240]  And here we are going back to the drawing board with vehicles and I get, we're stretched out and it's a big issue and all of that, but it's stupid.
[26:56.440 --> 27:10.840]  It's why would we have all of these really complex devices for each and every driver when we could, uh, spend a lot, um, more time and energy on something worthwhile to a broader range of people like rail and, and other kinds of, uh, transportation technologies.
[27:12.660 --> 27:21.500]  Well, my, my main issue is that, um, I mean, I'm in favor of less cars on the road and better drivers, making the test a little harder.
[27:21.860 --> 27:27.420]  Uh, this kind of moves away from that, puts more cars on the road and has people who don't even know what they're doing in cars.
[27:27.740 --> 27:35.260]  Uh, even today, people have those, those, uh, backup, um, um, uh, cameras and beeps and all that kind of thing.
[27:35.360 --> 27:37.120]  They can't parallel park to save their lives.
[27:37.200 --> 27:40.800]  And I think that should be something that everyone should know how to do and do well.
[27:40.940 --> 27:42.600]  That's a feature now on some cars.
[27:42.720 --> 27:44.500]  Uh, you don't have to even know how to parallel park.
[27:44.640 --> 27:47.720]  You just get into a mode where you're ready to, and the car parallel parks itself.
[27:47.720 --> 27:47.920]  Yeah.
[27:48.060 --> 27:49.180]  That's, that's, that's a crutch.
[27:49.360 --> 27:51.300]  And I, I'm not in favor of that.
[27:51.900 --> 27:52.480]  Um, all right.
[27:52.500 --> 27:52.940]  And that's it.
[27:53.080 --> 27:53.940]  Uh, we're, we're done with this.
[27:54.020 --> 27:57.700]  I am surprised I didn't mention Gmail because that seems to affect almost everybody around me.
[27:57.820 --> 28:06.220]  Everyone seems to be using Gmail left and right and not caring that their mail is being read and that they're being targeted, uh, with all kinds of ads and surveillance because yeah, that is what happens.
[28:06.400 --> 28:08.400]  They know they haven't helped anyone with Gmail.
[28:08.700 --> 28:18.700]  We'll check in in another 10 years and see if people are, uh, any more worried about, uh, uh, Google and, and what it's able to do and, and what it has done so far and what else they've come up with.
[28:18.820 --> 28:19.500]  What other ideas?
[28:19.680 --> 28:20.240]  Maybe you can help.
[28:20.340 --> 28:20.980]  Maybe you can write to us.
[28:21.080 --> 28:22.680]  OTH at 2600.com.
[28:23.060 --> 28:25.620]  Uh, what will Google invent in the next 10 years?
[28:25.760 --> 28:27.760]  What might we invent in the next 10 years?
[28:27.900 --> 28:29.840]  And how do we protect ourselves against this?
[28:30.020 --> 28:32.600]  I didn't see their fiber in their broadband.
[28:33.020 --> 28:33.920]  Yeah, there's, there's more.
[28:34.080 --> 28:34.260]  Okay.
[28:34.260 --> 28:37.600]  We couldn't, we couldn't make this a bigger list, but I think they're saving that for the 20 years.
[28:38.360 --> 28:39.400]  Maybe, maybe.
[28:41.700 --> 28:42.140]  Okay.
[28:42.400 --> 28:57.440]  Um, we are going to take phone calls in just a little bit, but, uh, a couple other news items, uh, we've all seen or heard of the, uh, horrible news out of, uh, the, the Mideast with the, uh, beheading of a reporter by this, uh, this new group, supposedly new group that,
[28:57.440 --> 29:01.040]  uh, is either called ISIS or IS depending on who you believe.
[29:01.420 --> 29:21.180]  Um, now what's interesting about this as far as, uh, in our particular, uh, realm is that Twitter, um, basically issued a mandate saying, do not, do not, uh, link to the video of the American journalist being beheaded and anyone who does will have their account suspended,
[29:21.180 --> 29:24.680]  um, or, uh, frozen is the word they used.
[29:24.840 --> 29:36.820]  Uh, however, um, our great newspapers here in this city, the New York Daily News and the New York Post, both of which had the identical headlines savages over glaringly inappropriate images taken straight from the video of his beheading.
[29:36.980 --> 29:47.420]  Um, both of their social media accounts tweeted those images and both of them have remained intact, uh, against, um, against Twitter's, um, um, directive.
[29:48.160 --> 29:49.840]  Um, it's kind of interesting.
[29:50.100 --> 29:51.900]  Um, Twitter roared in outrage.
[29:52.100 --> 30:00.940]  They called for both tabloids to take down the images saying that their graphic covers littering New York newsstands was surely enough, but, uh, both of their accounts have remained active.
[30:01.900 --> 30:13.340]  Um, basically an email from Twitter said this, the post tweet contains this warning for some users, depending on their media settings, um, which allows users to click through the image or skip over it.
[30:13.380 --> 30:22.060]  But both the editor and author of the story that I'm reading from in Business Insider were not warned of the graphic nature of the image before it appeared on both of their Twitter timelines this morning.
[30:22.200 --> 30:23.640]  And that was the case for many others.
[30:23.840 --> 30:29.560]  Uh, Twitter was asked why some accounts tweeting similar images of James Foley were suspended, but not others.
[30:29.800 --> 30:34.040]  Uh, considering Twitter's apparent hardline stance on the subject, Twitter did not answer.
[30:34.880 --> 30:40.040]  So, you know, it's, it's a, it's a very, um, interesting realm that we're stepping into here.
[30:40.380 --> 30:50.360]  Um, I, I, I think it's really unhealthy to be looking at such images, but does Twitter have the right to say, do not have this image on your Twitter feed or we will suspend your account?
[30:51.940 --> 31:05.480]  I mean, I think I'm not, it's not clear from the article if they say you can't host this image on our servers, or if they say you can't even, um, link to this image on your own servers, I, I would be much more worried about the second of those two.
[31:06.200 --> 31:08.580]  Um, but I, I don't know.
[31:09.120 --> 31:12.460]  Well, I saw the word link, so I, I assume that, um...
[31:12.460 --> 31:14.340]  But, I mean, who, where's this story from?
[31:14.340 --> 31:15.660]  Is it from people who know the difference?
[31:16.040 --> 31:16.920]  Well, I don't know.
[31:17.020 --> 31:18.440]  You have to assume something.
[31:18.560 --> 31:25.700]  But Twitter did issue that statement, uh, saying that, um, anyone would be suspended if they, if they had this on their Twitter feed.
[31:25.840 --> 31:33.000]  So, whether it's a link to an outside image or an image on Twitter itself, if it shows up in your Twitter timeline, your account gets suspended.
[31:33.700 --> 31:34.500]  I, I don't know.
[31:34.580 --> 31:36.080]  I think that might be stepping over the line.
[31:36.260 --> 31:39.940]  I'm, I'm more concerned with people that feel the need to do this in the first place.
[31:40.340 --> 31:46.660]  But, uh, does Twitter need to be the policeman here and, and, and regulate what it is that we, uh, that we share with people.
[31:46.900 --> 31:52.020]  What if they were saying, uh, the same thing about any images of, uh, the protests in Missouri?
[31:52.820 --> 31:53.480]  Well, they could.
[31:53.780 --> 31:54.920]  We'd probably be, we'd probably be upset.
[31:55.220 --> 32:03.320]  That, that is, that is the problem with, uh, with any of these, uh, the, these steps is that it could be used in a different way than what it was originally intended for.
[32:03.420 --> 32:09.000]  Yeah, it's always for terrorism and child pornography to start with, but it can move to something else and most likely will.
[32:09.240 --> 32:10.860]  And that's the danger of just about any of these.
[32:10.940 --> 32:11.220]  Yes, Bernie?
[32:11.740 --> 32:24.080]  Um, um, you know, it's interesting that, uh, Twitter didn't announce years ago that they would suspend the account of anybody who linked to, uh, images from the, uh, uh, collateral murder video where, uh, U.S.
[32:24.140 --> 32:28.800]  forces were, uh, uh, gunning down, uh, uh, journalists.
[32:29.500 --> 32:37.740]  Um, it seems like they're being kind of, uh, uh, critical here and, and selective in who is doing the, the, the obscene killing.
[32:37.980 --> 32:45.160]  Well, I imagine, I imagine if, um, if it was a close up shot of someone having their throat slit, uh, whether it was by a U.S.
[32:45.580 --> 32:50.900]  soldier or, uh, or, or somebody in ISIS, I think they probably would have done the same thing in fairness to them.
[32:51.100 --> 32:53.120]  I think it's a question of what is visible.
[32:53.580 --> 32:56.120]  Not so much, um, that, yeah, this is happening.
[32:56.240 --> 32:57.260]  It's, it's, it's far away.
[32:57.380 --> 32:58.420]  We can't really see the blood.
[32:58.620 --> 33:02.420]  I think it's the, the graphic goriness that, uh, that made them say something.
[33:02.420 --> 33:02.940]  Ah.
[33:03.660 --> 33:10.820]  Hey, Emmanuel, do you remember that there was a, a Saturday morning TV, uh, entertainment show in the mid, late seventies?
[33:10.920 --> 33:13.120]  I wasn't a fan, but it was called Oh Mighty ISIS.
[33:13.860 --> 33:14.600]  Uh, no.
[33:14.840 --> 33:15.620]  I'm sorry.
[33:15.720 --> 33:17.780]  I wasn't up on Saturday mornings even as a kid.
[33:18.060 --> 33:33.160]  I am, I am surprised that, uh, this group who, who, who, who, at least some people and themselves may be, may be calling themselves ISIS, have not capitalized in imagery from this, uh, Saturday morning TV, uh, show, uh, which, which happened in, uh, you know,
[33:33.340 --> 33:38.400]  the setting was, uh, at least the part of the setting was in North Africa, Middle East area, uh, Oh Mighty ISIS.
[33:38.740 --> 33:40.140]  And it was, uh, I don't know.
[33:40.220 --> 33:44.560]  This just seems like it could be a, a, a, a propaganda coup for them to take imagery from that.
[33:44.740 --> 33:47.800]  You know, I think they actually have their graphics package worked out.
[33:47.960 --> 33:53.160]  I've seen their, um, the bugs on a lot of the videos and they're really fantastic 3D rendered flags.
[33:53.580 --> 33:54.280]  There's a 3D rendered bug.
[33:54.380 --> 33:55.080]  That is kind of interesting.
[33:55.220 --> 33:56.320]  I mean, they're, that's ISIS.
[33:56.540 --> 33:58.860]  They're billowing ISIS, ISIS flag.
[33:59.140 --> 33:59.680]  That's another thing.
[33:59.940 --> 34:09.120]  Uh, depending on which media outlet you believe in America, we seem to be calling it ISIS, but they made it very clear a few weeks ago that they were changing their name to just Islamic State IS.
[34:09.460 --> 34:16.040]  It's kind of hard to say, but, uh, I don't know, I guess American media either didn't get the memo or doesn't, doesn't respect its authenticity.
[34:16.240 --> 34:19.860]  Well, and for those unfamiliar with the term ISIS is a, uh, figure from Egyptian mythology.
[34:20.000 --> 34:27.400]  So, uh, it's, it's fully possible that both a present day group and an old TV show would, uh, both come by the word by their own means.
[34:27.560 --> 34:33.060]  I mean, presumably the group actually calls itself something in Arabic and we're just translating it.
[34:33.160 --> 34:33.440]  Probably.
[34:33.620 --> 34:33.820]  Yes.
[34:34.320 --> 34:41.180]  Well, I'm sure we'll learn a lot more about them in, uh, in, in the weeks and months and years ahead, uh, which is probably exactly what they want.
[34:41.740 --> 34:43.840]  Uh, but yeah, disturbing story.
[34:44.140 --> 34:47.540]  It's interesting to see how it is dealt with on a technological level.
[34:47.660 --> 34:56.940]  And one last thing, I think mainly the, the, the concern is that the, the possibility of the stuff as it did in some cases appearing randomly.
[34:56.940 --> 35:09.540]  If people don't want to see, uh, those images, then having stuff pop up just because they maybe subscribe to a news, um, uh, Twitter feed or what is, it's a part of their timeline.
[35:09.940 --> 35:21.200]  Um, they want to have the option not to be like, um, watching this, this, um, this killing, uh, without kind of choosing to, uh, view it or not deliberately.
[35:21.560 --> 35:26.720]  Well, we, we all lost that option when these two news, uh, well, quote unquote newspapers decided to put it on the damn front covers.
[35:26.860 --> 35:27.320]  There you go.
[35:27.500 --> 35:33.020]  Well, I haven't been walking around looking at newsstands today, but, uh, I guess if I do, I'll see images that I really don't want to see.
[35:33.520 --> 35:36.280]  I did see one flapping around on a subway platform earlier, so.
[35:36.520 --> 35:36.820]  Wow.
[35:37.160 --> 35:38.280]  Uh, but that's a still image.
[35:38.460 --> 35:41.160]  Obviously we haven't invented yet newspapers that have moving images on them.
[35:41.640 --> 35:43.060]  That day will come, I'm sure.
[35:43.460 --> 35:46.600]  I mean, so while we were talking, I pulled up Twitter's rules.
[35:46.760 --> 35:51.120]  And, uh, I mean, they, there are some things that are clearly prohibited on their service.
[35:51.320 --> 35:56.540]  Um, and, you know, whether they should or not, they're a private service and they clearly have the right to, to prohibit things.
[35:56.920 --> 36:06.040]  Um, you know, you can't post other people's private information for instance, but I don't understand how this particular content violates any of their posted rules.
[36:06.720 --> 36:20.120]  Uh, well, I'm sure there's, there's a, there's some kind of description of that, that content in there that would, uh, the closest one is that there's a category called violence violence and threats, which says you may not publish or post direct specific threats of violence against others.
[36:21.380 --> 36:27.120]  But, uh, I mean, maybe the post is calling for violence against the people who did this thing.
[36:27.220 --> 36:30.120]  I don't, I don't really read the post, so I don't know their editorial line.
[36:30.120 --> 36:42.340]  I would be surprised if you couldn't find something that relates specifically to this because, uh, you know, beheadings, uh, probably not something that, um, uh, that would be allowed on, on such a service, something that violent and bloody and gorish.
[36:43.100 --> 36:52.480]  Um, I mean, I, I don't think they enforce this rule against violence and threats, you know, against like Congress people who are always calling for war, but, um, but maybe they will one day.
[36:52.640 --> 36:56.720]  Well, something that, that graphic probably, and just like pornography probably would not be allowed as well.
[36:56.880 --> 36:59.420]  Now I'm curious if you try to post this on, on YouTube, what happens?
[36:59.600 --> 37:04.600]  I guess your, does your account get suspended then, or does it just get immediately flagged and taken off?
[37:05.360 --> 37:06.960]  Um, and it's interesting.
[37:06.980 --> 37:13.020]  I mean, I am not at all in favor of, of this being spread around, but it does show you how the system works.
[37:13.100 --> 37:23.780]  So if YouTube can find this immediately and take it off and suspend your account for this, then they can do that for something else tomorrow or next week or whenever the mood changes around here.
[37:24.040 --> 37:29.220]  Uh, and that can be used in a very, um, uh, a very crippling way against, um, against free speech.
[37:29.720 --> 37:39.600]  Well, YouTube isn't really a, uh, a barometer to be using because they can automatically recognize and, uh, and penalize you for uploading some terrible pop music that somebody else has the rights to.
[37:39.800 --> 37:39.940]  So.
[37:40.580 --> 37:40.960]  Right.
[37:41.440 --> 37:41.960]  All right.
[37:42.100 --> 37:47.080]  Um, now, um, the other news item, of course, that we've been following over the past week is what's going on in Ferguson.
[37:47.140 --> 38:00.740]  In fact, I'd like to open up phone calls to people just who want to voice their opinion in general about what's going on, because I know we don't have very many live programs here on the radio station and we should have a forum for people to, to voice their opinions technologically wise or otherwise.
[38:01.200 --> 38:04.080]  Uh, but, um, I've been watching media.
[38:04.240 --> 38:06.720]  I've been watching, um, online reports.
[38:06.720 --> 38:08.880]  I've been noticing the differences between the two.
[38:09.540 --> 38:26.680]  And, um, I think, you know, a situation like what's going on in, in, in Ferguson, Missouri is, um, is something that can really teach you a lot about the mass media, about how it's controlled, about how it automatically takes the side of law enforcement and does not represent people.
[38:27.200 --> 38:32.780]  And considering that, uh, most of the media broadcast over people's airwaves, that's kind of unfortunate.
[38:33.340 --> 38:40.260]  Um, but I was wondering if anyone here had any specific examples, uh, comparisons that they, they might be able to, to cite.
[38:40.320 --> 38:42.300]  I know I was watching Tim Pool's coverage.
[38:42.420 --> 38:43.280]  He's been on this program.
[38:43.540 --> 38:52.000]  Uh, and, um, and, and he first gained prominence at the Occupy demonstrations here in New York, uh, where he would film what was actually going on in the streets.
[38:52.900 --> 39:00.880]  I was watching CNN and yes, I was watching Fox because I want to see what they're up to and, and just seeing how they covered it.
[39:00.980 --> 39:03.000]  And basically they just do whatever the cops tell them.
[39:03.280 --> 39:04.280]  They stay behind the lines.
[39:04.400 --> 39:08.540]  They stay away from the action and they basically read word for word what they're told by the authorities.
[39:08.700 --> 39:22.620]  Whereas true journalists, like the people that you will find on the internet, unfortunately, not very often on the mainstream, uh, they risk their lives kind of, um, unfortunately what happened, uh, to this, uh, to this victim that we were just talking about.
[39:23.200 --> 39:31.860]  Um, but, uh, they will go out into the streets where things are getting a bit nasty and that's how you find out what's really going on.
[39:31.920 --> 39:34.260]  You see live images of what's happening in the street.
[39:34.280 --> 39:36.100]  You see what, what's real, what's not real.
[39:36.240 --> 39:38.260]  You see when threats are being exaggerated.
[39:38.260 --> 39:40.020]  You see when threats aren't being reported.
[39:40.520 --> 39:47.520]  Um, that's something that, um, that I think a lot of us can learn from I'm simply going out, trying to find these outlets.
[39:48.060 --> 39:54.460]  One thing that was glaringly obvious from early on in this whole series of events was on Twitter.
[39:55.880 --> 40:03.480]  For the 11 days or however long this has been going on, it's been a pretty steady stream for me, for the people I follow, of news about Ferguson.
[40:03.780 --> 40:19.060]  But when the same people who would see lots and lots of Ferguson on their Twitter feed went over to their Facebook, where they follow pretty much the same types of feeds and people and organizations, the Facebook feeds were conspicuously void of Ferguson mentions.
[40:19.860 --> 40:34.940]  And this was being brought up as an illustration of why net neutrality is important, because people who control the broadcasting agencies and the specific media can decide to turn down the volume on something that's going on if they want to.
[40:35.000 --> 40:40.500]  Is this really an example of net neutrality or is it basically a company saying, you know, we don't want this?
[40:40.500 --> 40:48.920]  They are private companies, but in the same sense, for people who aren't familiar with the concept, it's a worthy comparison, I think, to make.
[40:51.220 --> 40:56.480]  It's illustrating very well how shallow Facebook can be, I think.
[40:56.620 --> 40:57.680]  They're just not that deep.
[40:57.680 --> 41:01.800]  It's all about how great you're doing and, wow, look at my life and my five babies.
[41:02.020 --> 41:05.960]  Could it be another experiment that Facebook is up to where they're trying to make us happy this week?
[41:05.960 --> 41:12.580]  Like, you know, before that story came out a few weeks ago, I didn't think that Facebook really could control it that much.
[41:12.780 --> 41:16.420]  Basically, if people posted something, then it showed up, just like on Twitter.
[41:16.580 --> 41:18.980]  But apparently there is control, a lot of it.
[41:19.640 --> 41:28.700]  I mean, Facebook has been pretty clear that their goal is to, like, show you the content that will get you to come back to Facebook and they'll do whatever it takes to make that happen.
[41:29.980 --> 41:31.500]  And they're pretty good at it.
[41:31.500 --> 41:36.900]  Well, Facebook, well, Twitter actually, seems to be more of an activist tool.
[41:37.160 --> 41:42.800]  If you want people to congregate, to follow, to see what's going on, you tweet about it.
[41:43.120 --> 41:50.740]  And Facebook, on the other hand, seems to be the place where police officers who have shot people start defense funds.
[41:52.320 --> 42:03.920]  And the defense fund for the guy that was behind the shooting of this unarmed teenager has a lot of followers on Facebook, a lot of support, a lot of...
[42:03.920 --> 42:05.480]  I don't know why they're pledging money, but they are.
[42:07.020 --> 42:08.660]  And you don't really see that on Twitter.
[42:08.800 --> 42:09.520]  So that's kind of interesting.
[42:10.480 --> 42:12.740]  I'm sort of optimistic that he'll need a defense fund.
[42:13.020 --> 42:13.400]  Well, yeah.
[42:13.520 --> 42:15.960]  The evidence seems to be that he won't, but it would be nice if he did.
[42:15.960 --> 42:19.120]  He has to be charged with something, but that's a whole conversation there.
[42:19.120 --> 42:27.360]  Our phone line is 212-209-2900 if you want to speak about this or any other topic that's going on in the world.
[42:27.520 --> 42:30.160]  Certainly a lot happening around the planet this week.
[42:30.540 --> 42:43.240]  But I think Ferguson is a very good indication of just the value of media, the value of online access, and courageous people that go out in the street and report their findings.
[42:44.400 --> 42:47.100]  I'd also like to ask the listeners.
[42:47.880 --> 42:49.640]  Is it okay if I ask the listeners something?
[42:49.860 --> 42:51.340]  I don't know what you're going to ask them, but go ahead.
[42:51.900 --> 42:54.500]  Well, this is a personal appeal for me.
[42:54.660 --> 42:57.480]  I'd like anybody listening to write in.
[42:57.620 --> 43:12.560]  And if you have an idea for something that you would like to see us cover or talk about more, something we've done in the past or a segment, to write in and tell us that you really enjoyed that or that it did work and could be better this way or the other way.
[43:12.680 --> 43:20.560]  Because we've been doing a lot of evaluating and we want to hear your ideas about the direction of Off the Hook.
[43:20.940 --> 43:21.200]  There.
[43:21.200 --> 43:22.500]  That's my personal appeal.
[43:22.680 --> 43:26.520]  And the address to write to then is OTH at 2600.com.
[43:26.720 --> 43:29.480]  OTH for Off the Hook at 2600.com.
[43:29.480 --> 43:37.520]  And I ask, because mainly, well, there's just so much going on and we want to make sure we're covering the stuff that people want to get to.
[43:37.700 --> 43:39.580]  So with that, let's get to some calls.
[43:39.660 --> 43:41.900]  Yeah, we have a full switchboard, which is not surprising.
[43:41.900 --> 43:43.680]  So let's go to it now.
[43:43.780 --> 43:44.120]  Good evening.
[43:44.260 --> 43:45.100]  You're on Off the Hook.
[43:45.520 --> 43:45.880]  Hello.
[43:46.220 --> 43:46.680]  How you doing?
[43:47.420 --> 43:47.940]  All right.
[43:48.060 --> 43:48.520]  Am I on?
[43:48.700 --> 43:49.760]  You're on the air right now.
[43:49.940 --> 43:53.240]  I just heard somebody say ideas for Off the Hook.
[43:53.400 --> 43:54.560]  Keep doing what you're doing.
[43:54.680 --> 43:56.160]  The program has been excellent.
[43:56.740 --> 43:57.260]  Well, thanks.
[43:57.340 --> 43:57.840]  Thanks very much.
[43:58.100 --> 43:58.880]  Thank you very much.
[43:58.880 --> 44:03.040]  I have some contributions for Google and some of their accomplishments.
[44:03.400 --> 44:04.000]  Sure, go ahead.
[44:04.200 --> 44:11.220]  They're the first company to create and legitimize a proud policy of no human support whatsoever.
[44:11.680 --> 44:12.020]  Wow.
[44:12.220 --> 44:12.940]  So true.
[44:13.220 --> 44:14.120]  Try calling them.
[44:14.460 --> 44:20.660]  Other companies have kind of done it, you know, in the closet, but Google has pulled it out into an ugly light.
[44:20.800 --> 44:26.200]  Or offshored it completely and, you know, subcontracted it to a call center or something like that.
[44:26.200 --> 44:33.220]  I could call the Koch brothers and complain to, you know, Georgia Pacific about what they're doing, but I can't talk to anybody at Google.
[44:33.460 --> 44:33.980]  There's no one there.
[44:34.020 --> 44:35.280]  What if you call 1-800-GOOGLE?
[44:35.360 --> 44:35.780]  What happens?
[44:36.180 --> 44:36.500]  Nothing.
[44:37.020 --> 44:37.260]  Nothing.
[44:37.720 --> 44:39.200]  Oh, it's only six digits, isn't it?
[44:39.260 --> 44:39.480]  Oh, well.
[44:39.540 --> 44:42.440]  It's like trying to find an operator with Verizon.
[45:01.320 --> 45:05.460]  It's like its own little environment, and we're not a part of it, and we can't talk to it.
[45:05.680 --> 45:05.960]  Right, right.
[45:06.220 --> 45:07.020]  So what was your other...
[45:07.020 --> 45:12.980]  The thing is that with the amount of info on us, on all of us that Google has, they already know whatever it is you'd want to say to them.
[45:13.520 --> 45:14.060]  That's true.
[45:14.200 --> 45:28.800]  Yeah, but I don't know that they can use it very well, because, I mean, just look at these ever-changing, complicated, and ambiguous search engine optimization rules and the punitive policies that they use to determine whether a site will rank in the search engines.
[45:29.520 --> 45:34.540]  You mean, like, what search syntax, you mean?
[45:34.600 --> 45:39.820]  Like how they change search syntax and how that's evolved and gotten weird and worse over the years?
[45:39.980 --> 45:44.320]  Yeah, like Panda or whatever it is, and the number of keyword density and links.
[45:44.480 --> 45:46.260]  You have to disown links coming in.
[45:46.440 --> 46:00.820]  I don't know about you, but when I'm making web pages, I like to actually work on the content, but it seems that Google and their policy of supposedly looking for quality content is constantly distracting me to wonder what they're doing and if they're going to punish me.
[46:01.340 --> 46:13.380]  You know, it's funny you should say that, and I think probably a few people have thought you were joking and said punish, but we get emails all the time from people that are worried that Google is punishing them for search results.
[46:14.260 --> 46:24.840]  Something about bad links from certain websites that make them go down the search, the search listing order, they are really scared.
[46:25.120 --> 46:32.560]  They really are scared that if we don't remove that link, they're going to have to pay a penalty by not being searchable as much because of Google's policy change.
[46:32.780 --> 46:35.880]  And it's just sad to see people live in that kind of fear.
[46:36.340 --> 46:42.560]  It's crazy because if Google knows, they can just, you know, disallow it or knock it out of their formula.
[46:42.560 --> 46:51.800]  But they want you to go and actively look on the entire web, and then there's like this disowning thing you have to go to at Google.
[46:52.080 --> 47:00.680]  You have to join their organization and disown anything that you think might be suspicious, but you don't know for sure what that is.
[47:01.740 --> 47:01.860]  True.
[47:02.320 --> 47:02.560]  All right.
[47:02.740 --> 47:03.500]  Thanks for your call.
[47:03.820 --> 47:04.760]  Thank you very much.
[47:04.840 --> 47:05.000]  All right.
[47:05.040 --> 47:05.300]  Take care.
[47:06.340 --> 47:08.800]  212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[47:08.800 --> 47:09.100]  Good evening.
[47:09.220 --> 47:09.880]  You're on Off the Hook.
[47:10.760 --> 47:11.180]  Hi.
[47:11.180 --> 47:11.340]  Hi.
[47:11.460 --> 47:11.700]  Hi.
[47:11.800 --> 47:12.600]  Please turn down your radio.
[47:13.140 --> 47:13.920]  I will.
[47:15.040 --> 47:15.560]  Okay.
[47:15.980 --> 47:23.820]  Yeah, I just wanted to actually contribute to bashing on Google because I think you guys did kind of a shoddy job.
[47:23.960 --> 47:25.360]  Yeah, I wasn't happy with it.
[47:25.380 --> 47:25.680]  You're right.
[47:25.800 --> 47:26.520]  You're absolutely right.
[47:27.200 --> 47:41.760]  I really think that, you know, the main complaint that ties in at least Gmail, Chrome, and Play is how encompassing their technological panopticon is.
[47:42.040 --> 47:43.780]  I mean, this company wants it both ways.
[47:43.780 --> 47:53.400]  They want you to use their services as an impartial tool to accomplish various tasks, yet they censor, or as they would put it, maybe curate the content.
[47:53.400 --> 48:05.800]  They remove links to certain subject matter that they and or the government find objectionable and then get to subvert the very nature of total knowledge by making certain things appear as if they don't exist.
[48:06.200 --> 48:11.660]  And really, this is something that I was talking about when I was at Hope not too long ago.
[48:11.660 --> 48:21.100]  So, how come no one has expressed greater outrage about the fact that Google essentially knows every app everyone downloads on their phone if they have an Android phone?
[48:21.400 --> 48:28.080]  I mean, imagine the outrage that this would create if Microsoft had adopted this tactic for Windows applications.
[48:28.360 --> 48:29.440]  You want VLC?
[48:29.520 --> 48:30.860]  You've got to go to Windows.com.
[48:30.960 --> 48:32.560]  You want Symantec, antivirus?
[48:32.740 --> 48:33.940]  Go to Windows.com.
[48:34.060 --> 48:35.040]  Want a copy of Tetris?
[48:35.240 --> 48:36.500]  Go to Windows.com.
[48:36.500 --> 48:40.180]  But this is okay for a supposedly open-source platform.
[48:40.740 --> 48:47.680]  And Chrome has you log in so that you can access Gmail and the calendar effortlessly.
[48:47.680 --> 48:56.000]  And then all your searches, which just happen to be everywhere you type in the browser, happens to go to Google.
[48:56.360 --> 49:03.420]  Not only does it have your IP address, but it has your account information tied to it.
[49:03.420 --> 49:07.200]  So, it's just so pervasive, it's absolutely ridiculous.
[49:07.460 --> 49:25.540]  In fact, if you ever check Canada's Google, excuse me, the way their search results come out, they don't have these long token strings at the end of the URL the way they do when you use Google.com in the United States.
[49:25.800 --> 49:26.620]  Is that true?
[49:26.620 --> 49:26.920]  Really?
[49:26.920 --> 49:49.860]  Yeah, I mean, if you type, say, like, 2600 magazine on Google.ca, you will see the URL will come out, like, 2600 plus magazine after just a small string as opposed to this long token that you see in Google.com in the U.S.
[49:49.860 --> 50:01.880]  Is that in part due to HTTPS being owned by default with Google.com, or do you know that that token is a part of some sort of tracking system?
[50:02.180 --> 50:09.840]  No, I mean, it's definitely not due to HTTPS because I have stuff default to HTTPS.
[50:10.500 --> 50:23.240]  So, I mean, I use Google.ca, just HTTPS and Google.com with HTTPS, and you will see this difference in the search query after you type in a term.
[50:23.400 --> 50:26.260]  It's distinct, regardless of the fact that both default to HTTPS.
[50:26.380 --> 50:28.440]  Okay, I just want to be sure, because I'm not actually too technical.
[50:28.560 --> 50:31.920]  I don't quite understand what is being displayed in that.
[50:32.040 --> 50:32.960]  But I do know what you mean.
[50:32.960 --> 50:33.540]  Well, they count on that, Kyle.
[50:33.620 --> 50:36.140]  They count on people not really understanding what's going on.
[50:36.140 --> 50:43.740]  I do know what he means by looking for a token and some information in the address bar, and perhaps, well, we'll all pay a little more attention.
[50:43.960 --> 50:45.200]  Can we go to Google.ca?
[50:45.360 --> 50:46.040]  Does that work from here?
[50:46.660 --> 50:47.920]  Yes, it works from here.
[50:47.920 --> 50:49.540]  All right, well, then let's do that from now.
[50:49.620 --> 50:51.620]  I'm assuming there's credence to this.
[50:51.840 --> 50:54.200]  You can do, is Mexico MX?
[50:54.600 --> 51:07.880]  Actually, privately.com, which is obviously a play on the word privately, which is just some kind of a proxy like Scroogle was back in the day for Google and Bing over anything directly.
[51:08.140 --> 51:11.220]  I mean, we really, you know, we have to vote with our dollars.
[51:11.260 --> 51:13.860]  That's, like, the only effective way to fight corporations.
[51:13.860 --> 51:19.480]  And since Google makes us the product, like, we have to vote with our attention.
[51:19.680 --> 51:22.400]  We have to stop giving their services attention.
[51:22.800 --> 51:25.580]  People that know better have to lead by example.
[51:25.900 --> 51:26.620]  Good point.
[51:26.780 --> 51:27.680]  Hey, thanks for your call.
[51:28.300 --> 51:28.960]  You're welcome.
[51:29.120 --> 51:29.400]  Thank you.
[51:30.560 --> 51:36.960]  It's good to get some off-the-hook listeners online, on the air, rather, and hear what they have to say.
[51:37.640 --> 51:39.020]  212-209-2900.
[51:39.120 --> 51:39.460]  Good evening.
[51:39.600 --> 51:40.480]  You're on off-the-hook.
[51:40.960 --> 51:42.140]  Off-the-hook listeners online.
[51:42.180 --> 51:42.520]  Speak up.
[51:44.000 --> 51:44.700]  They're back?
[51:45.080 --> 51:45.480]  Wow.
[51:46.240 --> 51:47.000]  Good evening.
[51:47.000 --> 51:48.060]  You're on off-the-hook.
[51:48.900 --> 51:49.300]  Hi.
[51:49.440 --> 51:50.620]  You guys were talking before.
[51:51.380 --> 51:51.880]  Go ahead.
[51:51.960 --> 51:52.360]  Yes, hi.
[51:52.420 --> 51:52.600]  Hello.
[51:52.860 --> 51:53.460]  Yes, you're on the air.
[51:53.520 --> 51:53.740]  Go ahead.
[51:53.900 --> 52:01.180]  You guys were talking before about the poor guy they beheaded, and, um, or I forget, in Iraq or Syria.
[52:01.920 --> 52:04.840]  Um, and it was on the Daily News and it was in the Post.
[52:05.040 --> 52:22.720]  And I just wanted to say that I'm very glad that it was on the Daily News and in the Post and on the front pages, because I think it's time that the world, um, see the savages, the filthy, subhuman, disgusting savages that are over there and that we're dealing with,
[52:22.740 --> 52:27.900]  who killed that poor man, who killed Daniel, Daniel Pearl 10 years ago.
[52:28.240 --> 52:38.340]  I don't care if it's the Boko Haram in Nigeria or Hamas in Gaza or Al-Qaeda or the Taliban who throw acid in little girls' faces.
[52:38.360 --> 52:40.900]  Well, you seem to be focused on one particular region of the world.
[52:40.900 --> 52:43.500]  I can, I can assure you there are filthy savages all over the world.
[52:43.500 --> 52:48.460]  Oh yeah, right, right, yeah, because like, where, where, where are they doing this?
[52:48.580 --> 52:53.000]  Well, I'm not going to give you an address, but it's basically there's awful things going on everywhere.
[52:53.000 --> 52:59.360]  And do we really need to have, uh, have it displayed in living color on every single newsstand in the city?
[52:59.460 --> 53:01.280]  Doesn't that desensitize us to the violence?
[53:01.520 --> 53:08.440]  I think we need it because I think that too many people don't realize the threat that we're up against, right?
[53:08.580 --> 53:13.200]  The civilized world needs to wake up and realize the danger of radical Islam.
[53:13.700 --> 53:21.480]  Okay, uh, Caller, if, uh, if I might ask Caller, um, are you familiar with the collateral murder video where it was our soldiers performing the atrocities?
[53:21.480 --> 53:26.320]  And if so, how would you feel about frames from that in place of the, uh, frames that were published today?
[53:26.480 --> 53:27.520]  Yeah, close-ups in HD.
[53:27.760 --> 53:29.700]  Um, I'm not familiar with that video.
[53:30.120 --> 53:31.180]  Um, I would get...
[53:31.180 --> 53:32.600]  Probably because it was...
[53:32.600 --> 53:33.240]  Go ahead.
[53:33.640 --> 53:35.280]  Probably because it wasn't everywhere.
[53:35.660 --> 53:40.060]  Yeah, yeah, if that was on the front page of, uh, of newspapers, maybe there would be a difference.
[53:40.240 --> 53:42.400]  So, could be a point to this.
[53:42.400 --> 53:45.900]  Could be a point to, uh, to blaring it in people's faces, but, uh, I don't know.
[53:46.040 --> 53:47.480]  I don't, I don't really see it in this case.
[53:47.900 --> 53:48.680]  Thanks for that call.
[53:48.820 --> 53:49.180]  Good evening.
[53:49.340 --> 53:50.300]  You're on Off the Hook.
[53:51.800 --> 53:52.440]  Speak up, please.
[53:52.560 --> 53:52.680]  Hello?
[53:53.080 --> 53:53.480]  Go ahead.
[53:54.160 --> 53:55.680]  Okay, thank you for taking the call.
[53:55.920 --> 54:00.680]  I'm a photographer, videographer, and I want to refer our listeners.
[54:00.780 --> 54:05.280]  I've been a long-time listener to WBAI since the 60s, supporter of your show.
[54:05.580 --> 54:12.860]  Um, but I want everyone to understand, and I disagree completely with your idea of, uh, editing that content.
[54:13.140 --> 54:17.780]  And the young man who just called, I would refer him to James Noctway.
[54:18.120 --> 54:39.280]  James Noctway won a Pulio's surprise for photographing, the beheading, of nuns in El Salvador and peasants who were against the Roberto Dovizan-led, uh, dictatorship that Ronald Reagan, our esteemed president, said were akin to our founding forum.
[54:39.660 --> 54:59.820]  Not only did James Noctway, N-A-C-T-H-W-A-Y, win the fuel of the prize for that, if anyone dares research the history of photojournalism, combat photojournalism, uh, Robert Capra, uh, from, that was World War II, and World War, and the Spanish Revolution,
[55:00.180 --> 55:20.800]  what you see is a history, not only of violence and brutality, but a graphic history of violence and brutality, that we, those who do not consider graphic violence and war to be applicable to the human race, should consider obscene, but should use to end war,
[55:21.400 --> 55:26.800]  uh, sexual congress between confending adults, not children, is not obscene.
[55:27.080 --> 55:35.520]  The editing and deliberate control of war images, that's a war scene.
[55:36.340 --> 55:54.460]  And you said that the issue of the American soldiers involved in Iraq, Syria, uh, Libya, uh, I could list all of the places where American soldiers have created committed atrocities, excuse me, back to, Neelai Massacre.
[55:54.800 --> 56:01.320]  And if you, the human, the public, aren't aware of that, then I'm sorry, you're not following the responsibility of democracy.
[56:01.700 --> 56:02.800]  And I'm sorry.
[56:03.060 --> 56:12.320]  A photographer such as myself went to those scenes deliberately, and the only thing that they paid me for, excuse me, were the most graphic scenes.
[56:12.500 --> 56:22.040]  They didn't pay me for the scenes where communities were developing, but they did pay me for bringing back images of people who were beheaded, people who were shot, women who were raped.
[56:22.600 --> 56:25.000]  And that has to do with the content of our media.
[56:25.160 --> 56:32.080]  But did those images, did those images show up on the front page of the Daily News in the post, or is it only images from certain parts of the world that do?
[56:32.080 --> 56:33.280]  Absolutely.
[56:33.740 --> 56:36.380]  And to me, that was a great editorial choice.
[56:36.700 --> 56:42.180]  The unfortunate issue is not that the editorial choice was wise, but the spin.
[56:42.660 --> 56:44.420]  Oh, savages, wait a second.
[56:45.000 --> 56:47.080]  War is savagery.
[56:48.380 --> 56:54.440]  The war zones that I've been in, everyone was killing an innocent.
[56:55.000 --> 56:57.320]  It wasn't soldier to combat.
[56:58.100 --> 57:00.380]  This idea of low-intensity conflict.
[57:00.720 --> 57:03.640]  Oh, you were children who were dying.
[57:04.160 --> 57:10.760]  And the images that I got paid for weren't the image of children's survival, but it was the image of children's death.
[57:11.340 --> 57:12.020]  All right, listen to me.
[57:12.900 --> 57:13.280]  Go ahead.
[57:14.060 --> 57:14.660]  Thank you.
[57:14.900 --> 57:18.900]  All right, thanks for that call, and thanks everybody who called in tonight.
[57:19.120 --> 57:26.260]  And that's what I like about this, is that someone can say something, and immediately there's another listener to refute it and offer some perspective.
[57:27.080 --> 57:31.560]  That's the voice that we need here at Off The Hook and on WBAI.
[57:31.860 --> 57:33.760]  Thanks everybody again for calling in.
[57:34.260 --> 57:36.080]  We will be back next week.
[57:36.220 --> 57:39.220]  Write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[57:39.620 --> 57:42.240]  Stay tuned for the personal computer show here on WBAI.
[57:42.360 --> 57:43.220]  It's Emmanuel for Off The Hook.
[57:43.280 --> 57:43.700]  Have a good night.