[00:00.000 --> 00:03.480]  ...ceremony that celebrates the United Nations International Day of Peace.
[00:03.780 --> 00:06.760]  That's Sunday, September 21, from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m.
[00:08.180 --> 00:10.980]  Central Park Nuremberg Bandshell by the Bethesda Fountain.
[00:11.220 --> 00:18.120]  For more information or volunteer, go to www.vigil4internationalpeace.org.
[00:18.120 --> 00:19.920]  That's the number 4 in the URL.
[00:20.160 --> 00:23.800]  Or call 212-222-5432.
[00:24.260 --> 00:27.560]  That's 212-222-5432.
[00:27.900 --> 00:29.020]  We'll see you there.
[00:32.000 --> 00:33.880]  And this is WBAI New York.
[00:34.040 --> 00:35.660]  It's 7 o'clock time for Off the Hook.
[00:40.650 --> 00:42.670]  The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:42.910 --> 00:45.210]  So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:46.090 --> 00:48.190]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:48.790 --> 00:50.750]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:51.270 --> 00:53.550]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:56.050 --> 00:59.010]  From Billy Bon for the best, expect the worst.
[00:59.770 --> 01:01.510]  I hope that's understood.
[01:01.690 --> 01:02.450]  From Billy Bon.
[02:23.720 --> 02:25.160]  And a very good evening to our bride.
[02:25.230 --> 02:26.000]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:26.100 --> 02:27.160]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[02:27.260 --> 02:28.390]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:28.760 --> 02:29.240]  Good evening.
[02:29.390 --> 02:29.740]  Rob T.
[02:29.890 --> 02:30.330]  Firefly.
[02:30.540 --> 02:30.890]  Good evening.
[02:30.890 --> 02:31.390]  Kyle.
[02:32.060 --> 02:32.440]  Hello.
[02:33.120 --> 02:34.440]  And Bernie S.
[02:34.880 --> 02:36.010]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:37.260 --> 02:38.140]  Well, okay.
[02:38.210 --> 02:41.660]  We should just get right into it because no sense wasting any time.
[02:41.790 --> 02:42.880]  It's what everybody wants to talk about.
[02:43.000 --> 02:44.140]  It's what we have to talk about.
[02:44.710 --> 02:48.160]  And that, of course, is the nude photos from the celebrities that got leaked.
[02:48.160 --> 02:49.710]  This is big news, folks.
[02:49.880 --> 02:51.710]  This is as big as it possibly gets.
[02:51.820 --> 02:53.120]  You thought the NSA scandal was big?
[02:53.210 --> 02:53.360]  No.
[02:53.520 --> 02:56.320]  You have no idea how incredibly huge this is.
[02:56.560 --> 02:58.710]  The mass media is all over this story.
[02:58.900 --> 03:01.240]  This is the most important thing to happen since ISIS.
[03:01.960 --> 03:04.580]  It's competing with it, in fact, for the headlines.
[03:06.040 --> 03:13.120]  And I guess we're all sort of wandering around in shock that so many celebrity nude photos are out there and just basically everywhere now.
[03:14.060 --> 03:15.330]  There's nothing we can do about that.
[03:15.330 --> 03:16.260]  We can't stop it.
[03:16.770 --> 03:17.210]  But...
[03:17.740 --> 03:19.800]  I'm shocked at nude celebrities at all.
[03:20.700 --> 03:24.760]  I'm shocked, dismayed, and, yeah, kind of puzzled myself.
[03:26.540 --> 03:32.020]  It's really something how this has been latched onto as such a major story.
[03:32.320 --> 03:36.400]  And a year ago, we were talking about the NSA spying on all kinds of people.
[03:36.540 --> 03:39.720]  The same mass media kind of didn't really pay much attention to that.
[03:40.500 --> 03:41.920]  So what do we have to do?
[03:42.020 --> 03:44.520]  It has to be about naked celebrities for the media to pay attention.
[03:44.840 --> 03:46.280]  Is that the secret here?
[03:46.280 --> 03:47.580]  Is that a secret?
[03:49.040 --> 03:50.580]  I thought that was fairly well known.
[03:50.740 --> 03:50.940]  Okay.
[03:51.020 --> 03:52.060]  I didn't know that until now.
[03:52.900 --> 03:56.440]  I mean, there's some interesting things about this story, but very few.
[03:56.840 --> 03:57.140]  Yeah.
[03:57.220 --> 04:03.160]  Well, you wouldn't know that from the newspapers and the television and the radio and all that, except for this radio station, obviously.
[04:04.420 --> 04:04.820]  Yeah.
[04:04.940 --> 04:09.040]  It's basically insane the amount of coverage it's gotten.
[04:09.110 --> 04:10.340]  That's a story right there.
[04:10.960 --> 04:14.260]  And then, of course, we can get into how it actually happened.
[04:15.490 --> 04:16.480]  And I don't know.
[04:16.560 --> 04:20.520]  Was anybody here really surprised that something of this magnitude could happen in the first place?
[04:21.460 --> 04:21.900]  No.
[04:22.150 --> 04:22.410]  No?
[04:22.650 --> 04:23.740]  I don't see anyone here.
[04:24.400 --> 04:25.520]  I don't see anyone here.
[04:25.560 --> 04:26.170]  I'm surprised.
[04:26.360 --> 04:27.620]  I don't think anyone's surprised.
[04:28.120 --> 04:32.270]  Basically, if you put your stuff in the cloud, it's not in your possession.
[04:32.270 --> 04:33.880]  It's in someone else's possession.
[04:34.290 --> 04:35.960]  And maybe they'll be secure.
[04:36.060 --> 04:36.840]  Maybe they won't be secure.
[04:36.840 --> 04:38.060]  What kind of encryption did you use?
[04:38.150 --> 04:38.410]  None?
[04:39.220 --> 04:40.620]  Got what you deserved then.
[04:40.840 --> 04:41.200]  I'm sorry.
[04:41.260 --> 04:41.840]  See, I disagree.
[04:42.020 --> 04:43.560]  I don't think it's fair to blame the users.
[04:45.170 --> 04:51.650]  Many otherwise smart people did not know that their files were being sent to the cloud.
[04:51.790 --> 04:53.940]  How did you not know your files were being sent to the cloud?
[04:54.120 --> 04:54.520]  Apparently...
[04:54.520 --> 04:55.940]  They hacked into their phones and took them?
[04:56.100 --> 04:59.480]  Apparently, it's a checkbox in iOS that defaults to on.
[04:59.620 --> 05:02.900]  And if you don't ever look for this checkbox, it will just be on and you'll never know.
[05:03.030 --> 05:05.060]  And nobody is talking about that little checkbox.
[05:05.060 --> 05:15.020]  And all the time that these phones have been out, no one has noticed that, by the way, all of your private pictures and everything else is going to be sent to some third-party someplace for storage.
[05:15.220 --> 05:25.400]  I don't think it's fair to expect users to perform this sort of like deep technical security analysis every time they, you know, get a new phone or a new photo-taking app or anything like that.
[05:25.410 --> 05:28.960]  What I do expect is for people to know that this is, in general, what happens.
[05:29.020 --> 05:33.540]  Unless this is the very first time it happened, obviously, word of this is out there.
[05:33.540 --> 05:37.900]  People know, yeah, this is something that will happen by default unless you uncheck that box.
[05:38.290 --> 05:40.440]  And I have no sympathy.
[05:40.550 --> 05:40.720]  I'm sorry.
[05:40.790 --> 05:48.920]  I have no sympathy with people that don't take the time to realize what it is they're buying and how their privacy is being taken away by their choice.
[05:48.920 --> 05:49.900]  It really is their choice.
[05:49.900 --> 05:58.720]  I wouldn't say people deserve stuff like this happening to them, but it does behoove us all to educate ourselves about the things that we deal with in our day-to-day life.
[05:58.810 --> 06:12.740]  And if that's knowing what happens when you take a picture with a little magic box in your hand, I think if there's any good fallout from this ridiculous story, it's that people maybe now will consider it when choosing what check boxes to check.
[06:12.740 --> 06:17.360]  My level of patience is so infinitesimal that it can't be seen in a microscope.
[06:17.660 --> 06:23.600]  I have no patience at all for people that put naked photos of themselves on their own phones and expect that to remain in their possession.
[06:23.810 --> 06:25.240]  People lose phones all the time.
[06:25.660 --> 06:32.280]  All kinds of phones are able to be hacked into and it's just, it's stupid and you can't be surprised when this happens.
[06:32.580 --> 06:37.480]  I mean, so your position, which to be fair, you're pretty consistent about is that like people shouldn't use new technology.
[06:37.790 --> 06:39.880]  That is not my position at all.
[06:39.880 --> 06:53.920]  But like most people like these gadgets and they don't have the time to understand, you know, that Apple might have a security vulnerability on alternate Thursdays and how this will affect them.
[06:54.040 --> 06:57.720]  It's just not something that people think about, that people...
[06:57.720 --> 06:58.260]  Exactly.
[06:58.280 --> 07:02.980]  And, you know, those of us who do think about these issues, I happen to not have an Apple phone.
[07:03.140 --> 07:04.280]  I have another brand phone, whatever.
[07:04.280 --> 07:11.880]  Uh, but my phone calls are being listened to the NSA and the solution cannot be that I, I stopped making phone calls.
[07:12.020 --> 07:15.050]  No, but you don't plan nefarious activities on those phone calls, right?
[07:15.140 --> 07:23.000]  You can't be surprised when, uh, when the Google police catch up to you, you know, it's, you have to understand what is being done with your information.
[07:23.160 --> 07:30.040]  And if you just allow things to, uh, uh, to be sent into the cloud and stored on third party, uh, sites.
[07:30.520 --> 07:34.020]  And if you're, you have your, your location constantly updated.
[07:34.240 --> 07:37.620]  So if the whole world can see, you can't be surprised when that's used against you.
[07:37.980 --> 07:38.900]  You just can't be.
[07:39.100 --> 07:41.700]  It's sort of a learning curve with any new technology.
[07:41.840 --> 07:49.080]  I mean, when microwave ovens were a new thing, a lot of people made the mistake of putting metal things in there and eggs and, you know, cooking lasagna without, uh, putting a hole in the film.
[07:49.290 --> 07:55.080]  And, you know, eventually people learned after a couple of disasters that it's a basic fact of the thing that you don't do X, Y, and Z with it.
[07:55.220 --> 07:58.400]  I think, uh, now's when maybe people will learn that with their smartphones.
[07:58.780 --> 07:59.120]  Okay.
[07:59.170 --> 08:02.930]  What can we tell people now to do or not to do?
[08:03.040 --> 08:16.580]  People who might be concerned that their naked photos are there on their phones for some reason, and they're, they're concerned that maybe they're being passed around on 4chan or some other place and, uh, and, and used against them or used to embarrass them.
[08:16.720 --> 08:17.900]  What can we tell these people?
[08:17.980 --> 08:21.670]  What we can tell those people is, uh, be aware of the services you're using and signing up for.
[08:21.760 --> 08:29.000]  Be aware of, um, the fact that your photos are being sent to a computer that's It's not in your control that others might eventually get hold of.
[08:30.280 --> 08:42.290]  If you take a picture on your phone, bring it right back home, dump it onto your own desktop computer or what have you, and then delete it off your phone, it won't be there for when you lose your phone or for when something else happens.
[08:42.400 --> 08:48.310]  I know my position seems somewhat harsh, but I don't have any sympathy for people who say, oh my God, my Gmail is being read.
[08:48.550 --> 08:50.140]  Because you know it's being read.
[08:50.290 --> 08:51.810]  It's part of the whole product.
[08:52.020 --> 08:52.960]  That's what they do.
[08:52.960 --> 09:01.280]  And if you store something on some remote place, it's going to get broken into somehow, at some point, depending on the weakest link in the chain.
[09:01.400 --> 09:02.840]  And there are a lot of links in those chains.
[09:03.100 --> 09:06.900]  So if you really want to keep something to yourself, keep it to yourself.
[09:07.100 --> 09:08.220]  Run your own systems.
[09:08.700 --> 09:11.420]  Put it in a place you actually trust that you have physical access to.
[09:11.550 --> 09:12.660]  I know a lot of people don't do that.
[09:12.740 --> 09:13.310]  That's the problem.
[09:13.310 --> 09:23.550]  I think that I am fairly technically capable, but I am much less capable than even Apple of running a server that no one else can get into.
[09:23.840 --> 09:28.240]  And to expect normal people to do that is completely unrealistic.
[09:28.240 --> 09:31.260]  It's way more unrealistic than anything else.
[09:31.380 --> 09:33.700]  But why do they need to have all their information stored there?
[09:33.780 --> 09:34.260]  Explain that.
[09:34.260 --> 09:37.580]  Because the phone is in their pocket at almost all times.
[09:37.760 --> 09:39.600]  So if you need a camera, it's pretty handy.
[09:40.500 --> 09:43.480]  I actually have another camera in my bag, but most people don't.
[09:43.550 --> 09:46.900]  Most people shouldn't be expected to carry two cameras around with them at all times.
[09:47.040 --> 10:01.480]  And if they want, for whatever reason, to take a naked photo, which is a thing that people want to do and should be allowed to want to do, if they so choose, then they take it with their phone, they send it to the person they expected it to go to, and they move on with their lives.
[10:01.480 --> 10:09.300]  And I think that is a totally reasonable set of expectations, that your privacy will be preserved in those instances.
[10:09.560 --> 10:15.020]  Now, it's a false set of expectations because the tech industry continues to disappoint us time and time again.
[10:15.020 --> 10:17.780]  Our government continues to disappoint us time and time again.
[10:17.920 --> 10:22.040]  And maybe in the interim, it would be wise to take precautionary measures.
[10:22.180 --> 10:30.120]  But I think people are totally within reason to expect that these large entities will have some degree of concern for their users' privacy.
[10:30.120 --> 10:33.040]  It's the height of naivety to assume that they will.
[10:33.120 --> 10:35.380]  Yeah, we have the expectation, but we know they're not going to.
[10:35.520 --> 10:48.360]  We know that our bank records will get lost and left in a car someplace, and someone's going to have access to all this information, which is why you give them as little information as you can possibly get away with, because at some point, somebody's going to screw up.
[10:48.460 --> 10:50.620]  And it's not going to be you, but it's somebody you trusted.
[10:51.320 --> 10:51.660]  Emmanuel.
[10:51.780 --> 10:52.200]  That's the problem.
[10:52.260 --> 10:54.120]  We trust too many people that don't deserve it.
[10:54.140 --> 10:54.460]  Yes, Bernie.
[10:55.280 --> 10:58.800]  I just want to say that Apple has been going into full damage control mode.
[10:58.800 --> 11:01.400]  I think their stock went down like four points today because of this.
[11:01.520 --> 11:07.600]  And they are saying that their cloud system was not breached.
[11:07.820 --> 11:13.620]  They're saying that this was just simple password guessing by people of people...
[11:13.620 --> 11:15.960]  guessing of simple passwords by people.
[11:16.140 --> 11:26.820]  You know, we've seen this time and time again where people choose these password hints and then they answer stupid questions that anybody can look up online, like what high school did I... what's the name of the high school I went to?
[11:26.820 --> 11:29.260]  Yeah, Sarah Palin was one of the people that did that.
[11:29.360 --> 11:30.600]  That's why I have no sympathy for her either.
[11:30.740 --> 11:35.560]  She trusted Yahoo and had a stupid question with a hint.
[11:35.700 --> 11:39.200]  It was led to believe that nobody would be able to get that.
[11:39.420 --> 11:42.080]  And of course, obviously, somebody was able to do that very quickly.
[11:42.180 --> 11:44.980]  They were punished as if they were the ones causing the problem in the first place.
[11:45.620 --> 11:48.820]  But the interesting thing about this story, what I find really fascinating...
[11:48.820 --> 11:49.460]  Yes, you're right.
[11:49.920 --> 11:54.880]  People were allowed to continue to guess passwords over and over again, just like it was the 1980s.
[11:54.900 --> 12:00.300]  It doesn't time out after three bad attempts or five bad attempts or a hundred bad attempts.
[12:00.660 --> 12:04.760]  This supposedly was a tool that was being used by law enforcement.
[12:05.060 --> 12:05.980]  Did you hear about that, Bernie?
[12:06.500 --> 12:07.180]  No, I didn't.
[12:07.220 --> 12:07.820]  This is interesting.
[12:07.820 --> 12:08.160]  Yeah.
[12:08.440 --> 12:11.820]  Now, these tools, they say...
[12:12.380 --> 12:12.880]  I don't know.
[12:12.920 --> 12:14.440]  Do we want to call them hackers who did this?
[12:14.520 --> 12:17.100]  There is a degree of hacking that went into this.
[12:17.120 --> 12:21.060]  Obviously, guessing a password is a part of hacking.
[12:21.680 --> 12:31.260]  But what happened was these were tools that were left in place for law enforcement to have access, if they needed it, to all these accounts.
[12:31.520 --> 12:34.320]  And that's a story that was being circulated earlier today.
[12:35.160 --> 12:39.640]  But the law enforcement is investigating all the celebrities, that law enforcement...
[12:39.640 --> 12:43.080]  Well, investigating everybody who might have an account someplace.
[12:43.240 --> 12:43.960]  I don't know.
[12:44.040 --> 12:45.040]  It's wide open.
[12:45.180 --> 12:47.400]  It's wide open as far as who they can investigate.
[12:47.660 --> 12:49.720]  Call them attackers, not hackers.
[12:49.980 --> 12:50.760]  An attacker.
[12:51.240 --> 12:55.100]  I think that's a proper journalistic way to report.
[12:55.100 --> 12:56.240]  I think that's too extreme, even.
[12:56.340 --> 12:57.780]  They're not attacking anybody physically.
[12:58.360 --> 13:00.420]  Well, they're attacking an account, I guess.
[13:01.320 --> 13:02.500]  That's sensational enough.
[13:02.500 --> 13:08.040]  Hackers using law enforcement tools to access iCloud backups unprotected by two-factor authentication.
[13:08.820 --> 13:09.820]  Whose tool was it?
[13:09.880 --> 13:13.020]  Is it one of these FinFisher-type products?
[13:13.080 --> 13:14.940]  Well, I got this from MacRumors.
[13:15.020 --> 13:18.000]  And unfortunately, when I printed it out, I printed it in six-point type.
[13:18.000 --> 13:20.460]  And I can't read what it actually says in the story, I'm afraid.
[13:20.560 --> 13:22.420]  But they used something...
[13:22.420 --> 13:23.220]  Can you read that, Kyle?
[13:24.440 --> 13:25.180]  Anon something?
[13:25.180 --> 13:36.340]  Anon-IB, a popular anonymous image board, where some of the celebrity photos first originated and discovered that hackers openly discussed exploiting software design and law enforcement, government officials, et cetera, et cetera.
[13:36.640 --> 13:36.840]  Okay.
[13:38.380 --> 13:45.120]  So, Apple's claims of whatever they're claiming are not particularly credible.
[13:45.120 --> 14:08.220]  Because people who did take the extra steps available to protect their account and do something called two-factor authentication, apparently the people who took the photos in this instance were able to get around that and just use the password in addition to the hardware device that you're normally supposed to have to access Apple's software.
[14:08.220 --> 14:13.600]  So, they can claim that this is behaving as designed, but it's a pretty stupid design if that's the case.
[14:15.060 --> 14:21.060]  So, you know, their claims of total innocence are not credible, but, you know, whatever.
[14:22.560 --> 14:38.960]  Just continuing, so it was on Anon-IB, this image board, that the person was able to get word or otherwise access this program called ElcomSoft Phone Password Breaker, E-P-P-B.
[14:39.600 --> 14:46.280]  And the software in question allows hackers to enter a stolen username, password, obtain a victim's full, iPhone, iPad backup, et cetera, et cetera.
[14:46.560 --> 14:47.660]  Wait, anybody can buy this.
[14:47.680 --> 14:48.480]  I'm on their webpage.
[14:48.700 --> 14:50.040]  The home edition is $79.
[14:51.260 --> 14:52.960]  We're not supposed to give prices over the year, Brian.
[14:53.120 --> 14:54.060]  Oh, well, I'm not trying to sell it.
[14:54.140 --> 14:55.720]  Well, I think you might be, though.
[14:55.820 --> 14:56.460]  There are a lot of people.
[14:57.200 --> 15:09.520]  So people who are very attentive might remember ElcomSoft as the entity for which Dmitry Sklarov, who was the first person ever criminally charged under the DMCA, used to work.
[15:09.660 --> 15:11.160]  I don't know if he still works there or not.
[15:11.420 --> 15:12.540]  Well, that's kind of interesting.
[15:12.540 --> 15:19.700]  This guy gets arrested for talking about this, and now his software is being used to track people.
[15:20.760 --> 15:24.000]  His software is apparently able to break in.
[15:24.000 --> 15:34.100]  I don't know if it's his software, but his employer or former employer's software is apparently able to somehow make it easier to get into Apple iCloud accounts.
[15:34.340 --> 15:35.780]  And if you're the U.S.
[15:35.900 --> 15:40.500]  government and you want data from an Apple account, you can just, like, telephone Apple and say, please, can we have it?
[15:40.660 --> 15:44.760]  But if you're a foreign government, you might have a little more difficulty, so you might use this software.
[15:45.920 --> 15:56.420]  Anyway, I think what we can learn from all this, what I believe we can learn from all this, is that people have to think before they get new technology and just jump into the pool.
[15:56.680 --> 16:06.540]  Because lots of times, things are too good to be true, and there's a reason for that, because you're giving away bits of your privacy, you're trusting entities you should not be trusting.
[16:06.820 --> 16:10.280]  It doesn't take long to become educated on this, to see what the risks might be.
[16:10.800 --> 16:13.900]  And I just feel the vast majority of people are not doing this.
[16:13.900 --> 16:17.720]  But once, all right, we have an educated audience.
[16:17.720 --> 16:22.840]  I feel like I'm pretty educated, you're pretty educated, Rob and Kyle and Bernie are pretty educated.
[16:23.040 --> 16:24.040]  What should I do?
[16:24.680 --> 16:25.580]  Well, uh...
[16:25.580 --> 16:26.580]  Now that I know all this stuff.
[16:26.660 --> 16:30.040]  What kind of, it depends what kind of phone and software you're using.
[16:30.220 --> 16:31.980]  Are you being backed up to the cloud?
[16:32.120 --> 16:33.500]  What kind of access do you have?
[16:33.780 --> 16:35.020]  Who is in charge of that?
[16:35.720 --> 16:36.840]  Can you turn it off?
[16:37.060 --> 16:38.980]  So you think I should turn off the cloud backup?
[16:39.260 --> 16:40.560]  I would, I would, absolutely.
[16:40.780 --> 16:41.620]  And that's the solution.
[16:41.720 --> 16:43.300]  I don't have my phone backing up to the cloud.
[16:43.700 --> 16:44.420]  Are you sure?
[16:44.580 --> 16:45.200]  I better not.
[16:45.440 --> 16:46.020]  Well, you know what?
[16:46.060 --> 16:48.300]  I would not have any sympathy for myself if I did.
[16:48.380 --> 16:48.940]  How about that?
[16:49.260 --> 16:50.140]  That's pretty weak.
[16:50.360 --> 16:58.480]  Well, it would just show you that I mean what I say because I don't want my personal information of any sort backed up that way.
[16:58.820 --> 17:04.320]  Obviously, the phone company is going to know what phone numbers I called, but I don't want my pictures being stored any place other than my phone.
[17:04.460 --> 17:06.380]  That's my default understanding.
[17:06.820 --> 17:14.490]  But it's also great to watch The Double Standard about this where we've been trying to talk about things like this for years regarding the average person and the data they're putting at risk.
[17:14.620 --> 17:19.600]  But it's news when it's a bunch of movie stars and pop singers and people like that.
[17:19.840 --> 17:21.120]  So maybe...
[17:21.120 --> 17:26.620]  That's my real point here is that everybody cares when it's a bunch of naked celebrities who I can care less about.
[17:26.750 --> 17:32.320]  In fact, I feel like we're being victimized more by having these pictures floating around than they are as far as losing them.
[17:33.160 --> 17:34.140]  Yeah, it's...
[17:34.140 --> 17:40.360]  The way I feel, if anything that I have on my phone that is not encrypted, I can live with losing.
[17:40.680 --> 17:45.620]  And you need to feel the same way because you will lose your phone at some point.
[17:45.620 --> 17:46.920]  It's almost guaranteed.
[17:47.180 --> 17:52.620]  And if you don't lose your phone, something is going to happen to the data that is being stored in a third party someplace.
[17:53.760 --> 17:55.210]  So let's not be surprised.
[17:55.210 --> 18:01.460]  To answer Mike's question, there are other things that users can do, even if they're not technically inclined.
[18:02.340 --> 18:20.080]  When you install, like, you download and install a mobile app for your smartphone, for instance, or your tablet or whatever, it's usually, before you install it, there's usually a series of questions about what permissions you're willing to grant that application.
[18:20.080 --> 18:26.100]  Now, they might lie and actually say that they don't require permission to your picture files.
[18:26.420 --> 18:34.120]  But a lot of applications, I've noticed, do ask for access to your picture files when that application has nothing to do with picture files at all.
[18:34.460 --> 18:36.460]  So you have to look at that.
[18:36.570 --> 18:43.460]  And if the free software, whatever you're downloading, requires that as an option to use it, then don't use it.
[18:43.900 --> 18:47.270]  And, you know, you don't have to have all this technical knowledge yourself.
[18:47.270 --> 19:01.440]  But if you pay attention to what people are saying online and share information, experiences that you might have had, you might read something saying, hey, by the way, this application that has nothing to do with my location for some reason is logging my location.
[19:01.890 --> 19:06.860]  And maybe you don't want to run that application after all, once you read that, once you start talking to people about it.
[19:06.940 --> 19:13.880]  Instead of just blindly downloading apps and assuming everything's going to work out fine, there's a lot of stupidity and a lot of evil out there.
[19:13.880 --> 19:17.940]  And it victimizes people who don't think twice about this.
[19:18.840 --> 19:37.490]  I think the speed with which we're getting a lot of these apps and handsets and new handsets and new software versions is compounding and making it that much more important for us individually to do our research and understand what our devices are doing and what they're doing with our data and what services we're actually connected to.
[19:37.810 --> 19:40.700]  And I guess I'm a little conflicted on this whole story.
[19:40.700 --> 19:57.750]  I actually... I mean, I wouldn't want people to be afraid to take photos because there's really funny, really adorable, really amazing, hilarious stuff that comes out of like the kinds of things people can photograph with very small, high-resolution cameras in their pockets.
[19:57.770 --> 20:03.640]  So I'm actually... I would hate to see a whole genre, even though there's a lot of bad photography with...
[20:03.640 --> 20:04.460]  I'm talking selfies.
[20:04.660 --> 20:05.660]  I'm talking all these things.
[20:05.830 --> 20:09.530]  Like self-portraiture has now turned into this like horrible genre.
[20:09.530 --> 20:14.460]  But despite all of that, I still think it's worthwhile.
[20:14.460 --> 20:19.510]  And I would hate for people to be not taking stupid photos of themselves.
[20:19.770 --> 20:32.070]  I think they should feel comfortable about not be so blindly just presuming just because something appears to be private or backed up in a way that you can control.
[20:33.040 --> 20:34.750]  It doesn't mean that it is.
[20:34.810 --> 20:36.640]  And we need to be really deliberate.
[20:36.640 --> 20:39.200]  So if you want to take naked pictures, take naked pictures.
[20:39.330 --> 20:41.810]  I'm a proponent of nude technology.
[20:42.750 --> 20:44.570]  But I would say...
[20:44.790 --> 20:45.380]  Yes, Bernie.
[20:45.530 --> 20:46.250]  Nude technology.
[20:46.360 --> 20:47.660]  You might not be familiar with it.
[20:48.530 --> 21:01.970]  But I would say let's be very, very, very deliberate about how we take those photos, where they go, and how they're copied and replicated and duplicated and all of that stuff.
[21:01.970 --> 21:17.070]  You need to be very conscious and, as I said, deliberate lest you find yourself in the position that some of these celebrities make a big, huge stink about something which is ostensibly your own fault.
[21:17.070 --> 21:23.940]  I am okay with people being outraged at the companies and services that they subscribe to having wronged them in some way or another.
[21:24.140 --> 21:24.730]  That's fine.
[21:24.730 --> 21:35.710]  They can make that argument, but not insofar as they legislate or cause other attributes of the technology to be less than what they are now because you're an idiot.
[21:36.120 --> 21:38.570]  So let's not be idiots.
[21:38.860 --> 21:39.090]  Yes.
[21:39.360 --> 21:40.050]  Well, you know what?
[21:40.160 --> 21:45.330]  I just feel I have to speak up now because I think that we've been rather unfair in criticizing the cloud.
[21:45.550 --> 21:50.090]  The cloud is actually something that can be very useful to people.
[21:50.380 --> 21:51.940]  If you have crops that need rain.
[21:52.830 --> 21:53.310]  Yes.
[21:53.480 --> 21:53.860]  Thank you, Mike.
[21:53.860 --> 22:00.830]  No, we're spending time here coming down on people who have their pictures stored in the cloud.
[22:01.220 --> 22:03.520]  And why is that such a bad thing?
[22:04.280 --> 22:05.520]  Why does that have to be bad?
[22:05.660 --> 22:06.440]  Here's an example.
[22:06.590 --> 22:07.780]  Southern California, right?
[22:07.980 --> 22:10.640]  Someone had their home burgled.
[22:10.900 --> 22:11.310]  Yes.
[22:11.570 --> 22:14.520]  And their phone was also stolen.
[22:14.900 --> 22:19.460]  And this guy showed up in a selfie on their cell phone.
[22:19.570 --> 22:27.460]  And the reason that they were able to see this is because that picture showed up when the woman whose home was ransacked and their electronics stolen.
[22:27.500 --> 22:31.980]  She spotted that selfie when she logged on to her cloud or online storage account.
[22:32.420 --> 22:32.920]  Yeah.
[22:33.070 --> 22:37.220]  And they were able to talk to the guy who took the picture.
[22:38.920 --> 22:42.520]  And apparently he bought the phone at a swap meet for about 80 bucks.
[22:42.780 --> 22:43.620]  So it's embarrassing.
[22:43.760 --> 22:45.120]  I had no idea it would be all over the news.
[22:45.240 --> 22:46.550]  I was just between me and my girlfriend.
[22:46.550 --> 22:50.590]  I think I got a good deal, but I didn't know I would be put in this kind of a situation.
[22:51.160 --> 22:53.920]  The investigation into the burglary is still ongoing, but she got her phone back.
[22:54.040 --> 22:55.120]  That's the important thing, folks.
[22:55.290 --> 22:56.540]  So the cloud can help you.
[22:56.880 --> 22:57.120]  All right?
[22:58.350 --> 23:05.180]  Although, once again, it behooves you to know how your cloud technology is working if, for example, you've bought a probably stolen phone from a swap meet.
[23:05.790 --> 23:12.940]  Well, you know, thieves are outraged by this, obviously, because apparently they can get caught doing all sorts of things they didn't know they can get caught doing.
[23:13.120 --> 23:14.180]  And, well, you know.
[23:15.280 --> 23:18.590]  So here's a tip for people who are purchasing used cell phones.
[23:18.860 --> 23:21.380]  When you turn it on, see what accounts are on their device.
[23:21.380 --> 23:25.460]  And if there's any, and it's not the person you're buying it from, ask some questions.
[23:26.130 --> 23:29.830]  Yeah, and if you sell a phone, you should know what to turn off as well.
[23:30.000 --> 23:34.050]  Otherwise, your privacy might continue to be violated long after you say goodbye to your telephone.
[23:34.740 --> 23:35.830]  Little things like that.
[23:35.960 --> 23:41.380]  I have an anecdote about a service that is involved with photography.
[23:41.380 --> 23:42.700]  It's something called iFi.
[23:42.940 --> 23:43.480]  It's kind of cool.
[23:43.590 --> 23:44.180]  It's kind of old.
[23:44.310 --> 23:48.420]  A lot of people have Wi-Fi on their cameras now already, but I've been messing around with it.
[23:48.520 --> 23:49.740]  And I don't really know this.
[23:49.810 --> 23:51.070]  If anybody knows, please write us.
[23:51.200 --> 23:54.980]  It's offthehook, O-T-H, at 2600.com.
[23:54.980 --> 23:58.090]  I'd like to know a little more about how iFi works.
[23:58.160 --> 24:00.760]  I've done a little bit of research, but I don't fully understand it.
[24:00.900 --> 24:06.260]  And there is, similar to what we were talking about earlier, a checkbox that says, do you want this backed up?
[24:06.310 --> 24:09.090]  And there's an account associated with their service.
[24:09.640 --> 24:10.680]  But I wonder...
[24:10.680 --> 24:12.020]  Okay, so I've unchecked that.
[24:12.160 --> 24:14.310]  I don't want anything backed up on their service.
[24:14.310 --> 24:20.940]  But I wonder if my art, if my photos still transit their network because I'm using their hardware and thus their software.
[24:21.760 --> 24:23.480]  And I think that's a perfect example.
[24:23.620 --> 24:30.440]  It's like, it's something I'm interested in on, especially with older equipment or moving around from different cameras that I'd like to connect to networks.
[24:31.380 --> 24:32.900]  It's a cool thing to play with.
[24:32.900 --> 24:38.240]  But I want to know, does that data, do those photos actually go off-site?
[24:38.240 --> 24:51.330]  If they're connecting to that company's service, I'm presuming that that art goes across their networks at some point before it actually ends up on my machine from what I've seen.
[24:51.420 --> 24:52.160]  But I don't really know.
[24:52.260 --> 24:54.240]  Does anybody here know anything about this service?
[24:54.440 --> 24:56.140]  I mean, the answer is it's complicated.
[24:56.310 --> 25:02.960]  They have a number of different services with similar names that all behave rather differently.
[25:03.660 --> 25:12.720]  Most of their services, including the one that I have, the one that I have, it sends the pictures from my camera to my phone.
[25:12.880 --> 25:14.960]  And that's a direct connection.
[25:15.090 --> 25:16.760]  It doesn't go over any other networks.
[25:16.940 --> 25:18.620]  Bluetooth or something locally.
[25:18.900 --> 25:22.860]  It's Wi-Fi, but it's a local Wi-Fi that's not connected to the internet.
[25:24.080 --> 25:31.070]  Another of their services uses regular Wi-Fi Wi-Fi to transmit directly to your computer.
[25:31.760 --> 25:33.500]  And again, that doesn't go over the internet.
[25:33.740 --> 25:41.070]  But then your computer, the software on your computer, which receives the photos, might retransmit them to the internet.
[25:41.070 --> 25:42.200]  And they have other services.
[25:42.200 --> 25:47.000]  And I don't want to say that, like, never will your photos be transmitted over the internet with their services.
[25:47.790 --> 25:49.500]  But at least some of them don't.
[25:49.550 --> 25:52.090]  It sounds like you can say that they're not stored someplace else.
[25:52.850 --> 25:56.090]  It, it, I don't want to say that with certainty.
[25:56.310 --> 25:58.280]  I'll say that sometimes is the case.
[25:58.420 --> 25:58.620]  Right.
[25:58.680 --> 26:00.550]  And my example is just that there is a checkbox.
[26:00.660 --> 26:07.860]  You can say, I don't want this backed up, but I don't know that it's actually, because there is a login associated with using their product.
[26:07.900 --> 26:13.540]  I don't know for certain that that data doesn't ever transit their network because it's just not clear.
[26:13.700 --> 26:15.240]  It's clear that I haven't backed it up.
[26:15.330 --> 26:15.520]  Fine.
[26:15.620 --> 26:30.880]  But I'm still going to use their, their service with the knowledge that, well, this is not happening entirely locally and I should be especially vigilant if there's anything that I could have that would be sensitive, that I wouldn't want out somewhere or to be compromised in some way.
[26:30.980 --> 26:33.980]  To avoid confusion, this is iFi, E-Y-E-F-I?
[26:34.380 --> 26:34.680]  Is that the one?
[26:34.680 --> 26:35.050]  Yeah, yeah.
[26:35.090 --> 26:36.760]  It's kind of an older service.
[26:36.880 --> 26:39.180]  Basically, they're Wi-Fi enabled SD cards.
[26:39.330 --> 26:42.830]  And it's, it's completely different than what we're talking about, but much in the same way.
[26:42.920 --> 26:44.310]  It's like a fun service.
[26:44.760 --> 26:49.790]  Yeah, I want to like, yeah, take some photos and, you know, use it in different, different devices.
[26:50.090 --> 26:55.050]  But again, being careless about it could trip you up when you think, oh, this is so neat.
[26:55.160 --> 26:56.200]  It's, it's just transmitted.
[26:56.550 --> 26:58.040]  Well, that's fine.
[26:58.140 --> 26:59.790]  I'm glad that it's working that way.
[26:59.860 --> 27:01.070]  But how is it actually getting there?
[27:01.160 --> 27:02.590]  Tell me, I want to know more about it.
[27:02.700 --> 27:05.380]  And that's the kind of research I was talking about earlier.
[27:06.050 --> 27:15.120]  I'll just say, to return to what I was saying earlier, if you, Kyle, can't figure it out, then expecting just everyone to be able to instantly figure it out is not realistic.
[27:15.620 --> 27:19.550]  No, but I don't think anybody expects anybody to instantly figure it out.
[27:19.810 --> 27:24.140]  This is something we should know, we should discuss as a community and share the information.
[27:24.360 --> 27:32.860]  For instance, what I'd like to know right now, and I'd like to wrap this up with this question, is it possible for you to back up your phone locally to a machine in your house?
[27:33.050 --> 27:33.740]  Can you do that?
[27:33.790 --> 27:35.380]  Or do you have to back it up into the cloud?
[27:35.540 --> 27:36.480]  Does anybody know the answer?
[27:36.620 --> 27:38.280]  The answer is yes, it is possible.
[27:38.310 --> 27:38.920]  Okay, how do you do it?
[27:38.980 --> 27:39.720]  What's an application?
[27:39.880 --> 27:42.790]  Let's let people know this because this can, this can save them a lot of heartache.
[27:43.590 --> 27:50.400]  At its very simplest, you just hook your computer up with a USB cable or what have you and it'll show up as a drive on your computer.
[27:50.540 --> 27:52.760]  You drag the files from the phone to the computer.
[27:53.420 --> 27:57.830]  You could have saved so many Hollywood celebrities such heartache just by saying that a few weeks ago.
[27:57.980 --> 27:59.040]  Well, they don't listen to me.
[27:59.310 --> 27:59.830]  It's sad.
[27:59.830 --> 28:01.330]  Maybe they will now, you know?
[28:01.700 --> 28:13.260]  Oftentimes, if you have an SD card slot, you could probably, if you had a big enough SD card, offload at least most of your personal files onto that SD card and then move it somewhere else after that is copied.
[28:14.040 --> 28:19.940]  I'll just say that Rob's method will get some of your data and it's more complicated if you want all of your data.
[28:20.280 --> 28:20.480]  Yeah.
[28:20.810 --> 28:21.880]  Well, will you tell us how to do it?
[28:22.020 --> 28:23.160]  No, it's too complicated.
[28:23.330 --> 28:24.880]  You see, this is the attitude that keeps us...
[28:24.880 --> 28:25.460]  No, it's complicated.
[28:25.680 --> 28:25.980]  It's too complicated.
[28:30.540 --> 28:32.540]  Well, do you think we should demand that they do?
[28:32.880 --> 28:33.240]  Okay.
[28:33.520 --> 28:33.740]  Yes.
[28:34.090 --> 28:34.360]  All right.
[28:34.440 --> 28:35.180]  Bernie, go ahead.
[28:35.900 --> 28:43.240]  I have a BlackBerry 10 operating system phone and there is an application I have that backs up everything onto my computer.
[28:43.920 --> 28:50.440]  I don't think BlackBerry even offers a cloud to its users because they know how dangerous it is from a security standpoint.
[28:50.720 --> 28:57.880]  But yeah, I regularly back up my smartphone, my BlackBerry, directly to my computer and never to the cloud.
[28:59.100 --> 29:01.880]  Well, I would be applauding now except it wouldn't sound good over the air.
[29:02.000 --> 29:07.700]  But there's a lot for all of us to learn, I think, in this particular arena.
[29:09.280 --> 29:13.550]  And it's just incredible to see how the story has been covered so far.
[29:13.680 --> 29:14.540]  People are...
[29:14.540 --> 29:19.380]  In the mass media, people are saying you can change your password to something more secure.
[29:19.380 --> 29:22.020]  For instance, change S's to dollar signs.
[29:22.120 --> 29:23.140]  I saw that on CNN.
[29:23.620 --> 29:28.260]  They're actually telling people, yeah, if your password is password, it'll be more secure if you make it the S's into dollar signs.
[29:29.450 --> 29:30.260]  Imagine that's...
[29:30.260 --> 29:33.420]  They don't seem to realize that that is just as bad.
[29:33.570 --> 29:40.500]  And by telling people this, you're installing this false sense of security that is more of a disservice than anything else.
[29:40.660 --> 29:46.360]  I think that may have been the same CNN report in which they asked, who is this 4chan, this individual hacker called 4chan?
[29:46.590 --> 29:46.860]  Really?
[29:47.040 --> 29:47.240]  Yes.
[29:47.360 --> 29:48.380]  They thought 4chan was a person.
[29:48.400 --> 29:50.460]  They thought 4chan was a person.
[29:51.070 --> 29:52.780]  Well, okay.
[29:52.920 --> 29:57.520]  Well, let's move on to another fun news item of late.
[29:57.640 --> 29:59.980]  And that, of course, is the group ISIS.
[30:00.310 --> 30:08.720]  Well, we knew this was going to happen at some point, but the folks at ISIS Wallet have finally felt the pinch and they're changing their name.
[30:09.020 --> 30:11.500]  They're not going to be called ISIS Wallet anymore.
[30:12.310 --> 30:14.540]  Isn't that giving in to terrorists, though, when you don't...
[30:15.040 --> 30:18.040]  when you change your name because it's the same as what they're using?
[30:18.650 --> 30:22.220]  Well, ISIS Wallet is changing its name to SoftCard.
[30:23.360 --> 30:23.790]  SoftCard?
[30:24.310 --> 30:25.500]  That's a lousy name.
[30:25.540 --> 30:25.960]  What is this?
[30:26.070 --> 30:28.160]  And I can't believe nothing else was called SoftCard either.
[30:28.880 --> 30:30.640]  Do I want to know what this product is?
[30:30.830 --> 30:31.310]  Well, they want to...
[30:31.310 --> 30:33.070]  Well, stick around.
[30:33.070 --> 30:33.460]  You will.
[30:34.200 --> 30:41.680]  They want to avoid association with the Islamic Militant Group because everybody using ISIS Wallet assumed it was being used by the Islamic Militant Group.
[30:43.590 --> 30:49.090]  They're rebranding for that reason and they selected this name.
[30:49.220 --> 30:55.240]  However, coincidental, we have no desire to share a name with this group and our hearts go out to those affected by this violence.
[30:56.640 --> 30:57.090]  Yeah.
[30:58.400 --> 31:01.480]  ISIS Wallet's flagship app continues to work as usual.
[31:02.070 --> 31:04.720]  I'm trying to find information on that for Mike who's interested in it.
[31:05.520 --> 31:05.900]  Emmanuel?
[31:06.070 --> 31:06.520]  Yes, Bernie.
[31:06.640 --> 31:07.500]  Do you know something about this app?
[31:07.700 --> 31:08.330]  It is...
[31:08.330 --> 31:15.440]  The ISIS Mobile Wallet is a mobile payment joint venture between AT&T Wireless, T-Mobile, and Verizon Wireless.
[31:15.660 --> 31:15.810]  Okay.
[31:16.020 --> 31:24.200]  So, I think all these companies probably said, ah, we don't want to be associated with this Islamic group, whatever.
[31:24.440 --> 31:25.050]  So, anyhow.
[31:25.570 --> 31:26.260]  It's amusing.
[31:26.380 --> 31:34.280]  There's been other products over the years that have had to change their name because of some news story about something that had the same name as their product or company.
[31:34.420 --> 31:39.550]  Back, I remember in the late 70s, there was a diet, chewy, chocolatey diet candy called AIDS.
[31:39.860 --> 31:40.240]  Oh, yeah.
[31:40.240 --> 31:40.880]  I remember that.
[31:40.880 --> 31:43.920]  That was unfortunate because they were very stubborn about it.
[31:43.980 --> 31:45.480]  They didn't change their name for quite a while.
[31:45.720 --> 31:52.540]  And advertising AIDS on late night television just, even back in the 80s, just didn't seem to work.
[31:52.760 --> 31:53.090]  Yeah.
[31:53.240 --> 31:56.550]  It's spelled A-Y-D-S on the candy and you can find the old ads on YouTube.
[31:56.780 --> 32:01.240]  And I recommend it if only to watch some 70s guy with a big smile tell you to enjoy AIDS.
[32:02.220 --> 32:02.620]  Yeah.
[32:02.620 --> 32:04.240]  That was something else.
[32:05.020 --> 32:13.920]  I looked up a whole bunch of companies called ISIS on 800 directory assistance and I called them all and every single one did not connect.
[32:14.180 --> 32:16.220]  They all went to either a fast busy or a regular busy.
[32:16.540 --> 32:19.220]  I think they're all changing their names and rebranding.
[32:20.180 --> 32:23.720]  Did you see the headline on today's main page of CNN?
[32:24.020 --> 32:26.290]  A quote from Joe Biden about the U.S.
[32:26.440 --> 32:28.140]  pursuing ISIS to the gates of hell.
[32:28.290 --> 32:29.070]  We don't retreat.
[32:29.280 --> 32:30.120]  We don't forget.
[32:30.680 --> 32:32.460]  Did he join Anonymous or something?
[32:32.460 --> 32:40.280]  I think because it sounds awfully close to how they speak but it just sounds very foreboding and interesting times ahead, right?
[32:40.480 --> 32:43.020]  You're spending an awful lot of time on the front page of CNN.
[32:43.310 --> 32:44.440]  No, I just looked at it once.
[32:44.480 --> 32:45.000]  That's all I needed.
[32:45.480 --> 32:47.070]  Well, this and the previous story?
[32:47.680 --> 32:50.440]  No, it wasn't even on CNN I don't think on that one.
[32:51.000 --> 32:59.920]  But, you know, there was another video that got released this week, another beheading and instantly Twitter was suspending accounts that linked to it.
[33:00.090 --> 33:07.020]  I'm not sure what other social media was doing did you guys hear anything as far as how it was being suppressed?
[33:08.810 --> 33:09.640]  I did not.
[33:09.900 --> 33:10.050]  Okay.
[33:10.480 --> 33:11.280]  It's interesting.
[33:11.550 --> 33:20.810]  I mean, I don't really know anybody that wants to see these videos but we discussed this a week or so ago and is it up to Twitter?
[33:20.960 --> 33:21.700]  Is it up to Facebook?
[33:21.860 --> 33:22.540]  Is it up to Google?
[33:22.660 --> 33:23.400]  Is it up to the U.S.
[33:23.500 --> 33:26.500]  government to say that you cannot see this video?
[33:26.500 --> 33:28.280]  that you're not allowed to watch it?
[33:29.310 --> 33:47.500]  Yeah, there's a very fine line there, I think, because it may not be of personal interest but if you're in certain lines of work it could be of journalistic interest or, you know, there might be legitimate reasons where somebody would want to see this footage and is it up to Twitter to make that decision for everyone who uses their service?
[33:47.500 --> 33:51.160]  Like, what legitimate purpose could there be served for watching someone be beheaded?
[33:52.700 --> 33:54.460]  I honestly don't know.
[33:55.880 --> 33:58.810]  I'm asking the question because it's an easy question to ask.
[33:58.960 --> 34:03.440]  Right, I can't rule out the possibility that there would be one but I personally do not know.
[34:03.540 --> 34:06.680]  If you're writing about it maybe you'd want to describe what was in the video.
[34:07.760 --> 34:08.550]  But why?
[34:08.760 --> 34:09.700]  To what end?
[34:09.840 --> 34:10.660]  Do people need to know?
[34:11.460 --> 34:24.360]  Maybe if you were writing something like that as a journalist from a journalistic perspective it would save people having to go and find the video to know what happened in it and what everyone's talking about and what's going on in the world.
[34:24.740 --> 34:31.820]  Well, couldn't you say that having this video being spread around is creating a market for this kind of a thing?
[34:32.000 --> 34:38.680]  Creating a market for more beheadings more videos being sent out by ISIS by other groups because there's a demand for seeing them.
[34:38.760 --> 34:48.980]  The more people who watch the more people click on whatever YouTube has that particular horrible video on it you're just as guilty as the people beheading people.
[34:49.140 --> 34:49.920]  I'm pretty sure...
[34:49.920 --> 34:51.720]  I'm using the child pornography argument in case you can't tell.
[34:51.900 --> 34:55.740]  I'm pretty sure terrorists were cutting people's heads off long before the internet was around.
[34:56.090 --> 35:05.540]  But looking at it from the other side if you're Twitter and you don't want certain content hosted on your service should it be should it be your prerogative to say what you do or you don't want?
[35:06.000 --> 35:10.320]  I mean if you know I run a blog for myself and people comment on it sometimes.
[35:10.520 --> 35:15.840]  If somebody posted this in a comment on my site I'd probably want to delete it because I don't want that on my own personal space.
[35:17.480 --> 35:19.700]  But should it be up to me to make that decision?
[35:19.800 --> 35:21.550]  Should it be up to Twitter to make that decision?
[35:21.700 --> 35:25.160]  Is there a difference in what people are entitled to...
[35:25.160 --> 35:29.320]  what control people are entitled to exert because Twitter is huge and nobody reads my blog?
[35:30.280 --> 35:55.000]  So I mean I think it's actually more subtle than that and I don't I don't actually know what my opinion is on the question but I think there's a difference between you know a publication like a blog that you yourself control and edit and can choose what goes on it I think that's a fairly clear case for it's okay for you to delete a comment if you don't you know want to look at it and then on the
[35:55.000 --> 36:12.260]  other hand we have you know entities like The phone company or large internet service providers that we think should just transmit content from one place to another and should not exercise any editorial control, whatever, because that is how to make networks work best.
[36:12.520 --> 36:19.190]  And I think entities like Twitter are in a sort of weird intermediate place.
[36:19.190 --> 36:23.570]  And I don't know where I think Twitter should lie exactly.
[36:23.940 --> 36:30.380]  I think it's better for them in dubious cases to err on the side of permitting content.
[36:31.170 --> 36:43.630]  But maybe there are some non-dubious cases that they should block or make it difficult to see, you know, make sure you really want to see this before you look at it.
[36:43.740 --> 36:45.780]  And I think there's work to be done there.
[36:46.150 --> 36:46.710]  Emmanuel.
[36:47.040 --> 36:47.590]  Go ahead, Barney.
[36:48.260 --> 37:00.590]  I think everybody should be able to see these horrific images, if for no other reason than to I think, sensitize rather than desensitize themselves to this violence.
[37:00.880 --> 37:14.340]  At the same time, you know, the horrific public executions that are happening, I don't see a lot of difference between... I know I'm going to take some flack for this, but even the U.S.
[37:14.440 --> 37:16.050]  government has killed a lot of people.
[37:17.070 --> 37:20.340]  And state governments, too, in this country have killed a lot of people.
[37:22.300 --> 37:23.050]  Death penalty.
[37:23.280 --> 37:25.360]  And I think those should be publicized as well.
[37:25.460 --> 37:27.550]  I think people should really see what's happening.
[37:27.920 --> 37:38.130]  And I think if they do, they might be horrified enough to call for a change in policy or a change in foreign policy in a way that might reduce this sort of thing.
[37:38.650 --> 37:41.210]  couldn't you make the same argument for child pornography then?
[37:41.400 --> 37:43.980]  It needs to be spread around so people can see how horrible it is.
[37:44.400 --> 37:50.440]  Instead, in this society right now, we put people in prison for decades simply for possessing it, not for producing it.
[37:50.880 --> 37:53.480]  Couldn't you say the same thing for a video that shows murder?
[37:54.280 --> 37:55.960]  A law could be passed to do that.
[37:56.050 --> 37:57.090]  That would be a sad thing.
[37:58.210 --> 38:01.190]  It's such a sensitive knee-jerk thing, the child pornography thing.
[38:01.380 --> 38:04.320]  I think it defies rational discussion, frankly.
[38:04.610 --> 38:05.460]  That's why I brought it up.
[38:05.780 --> 38:06.520]  Thank you.
[38:07.200 --> 38:11.980]  I think services like Twitter, they should be able to do whatever they want.
[38:13.090 --> 38:14.400]  They're private companies.
[38:14.630 --> 38:27.110]  And yeah, if they don't want to link anything, if they want to set up automated stuff to remove stuff and keep their nice family-friendly website, then yeah, good for them.
[38:27.110 --> 38:35.050]  I mean, we were on this very show talking about a few years ago how important it was that the collateral murder video had been released to the public.
[38:35.190 --> 38:39.240]  We had Julian Assange on this show talking about it shortly after it was released.
[38:39.520 --> 38:46.840]  And are we going to make that decision where it's okay if it's one side and it's not okay if it's the other side doing the same thing, which is murdering people?
[38:48.280 --> 38:49.340]  A lot of good questions.
[38:49.400 --> 38:50.210]  A lot of good questions here.
[38:50.650 --> 38:51.650]  But we have to move on.
[38:51.780 --> 38:54.070]  We're going to take some phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[38:54.190 --> 38:59.880]  Before we do that, though, we have the latest list of the most evil internet companies that are out there.
[39:00.000 --> 39:02.130]  It might surprise you who's on the list.
[39:02.260 --> 39:07.780]  Again, there's something about some sites when you try to print it out, print it in microscopic type.
[39:07.960 --> 39:09.520]  But Kyle can read what it says in the first paragraph.
[39:10.320 --> 39:12.820]  The most evil internet company.
[39:12.960 --> 39:25.960]  The most evil internet company is the one that requires you to add them on Facebook to read an article, makes you sign away your firstborn in their terms of service and invades your privacy, including all your contacts on your smartphone.
[39:25.960 --> 39:27.590]  I've had a service do that.
[39:28.110 --> 39:39.360]  These evil internet companies do all of that and then some, but provide services that are so vital to our digital lives that we allow them to do these things anyway.
[39:39.360 --> 39:42.540]  Well, we have a list of, uh, I think about 50.
[39:42.690 --> 39:47.320]  We're not going to go through all of them, but, um, anybody care to guess on who number one is?
[39:47.550 --> 39:50.000]  Can, can we have the, the source of this list?
[39:50.170 --> 39:52.190]  Uh, it's from ranker.com.
[39:52.500 --> 39:52.650]  Yeah.
[39:53.260 --> 39:55.110]  I know nothing about what you asked.
[39:55.610 --> 39:57.820]  Uh, it's a list like, uh, go ahead, Bernie.
[39:58.420 --> 40:00.480]  I said, it sounds like it was a scientific study.
[40:00.740 --> 40:05.630]  I'm sure it was a scientific as any other study, but, uh, I'm seeing a lot of familiar names here.
[40:05.860 --> 40:07.520]  Uh, level three, level three.
[40:07.820 --> 40:07.920]  Yeah.
[40:08.280 --> 40:08.670]  Worst.
[40:09.270 --> 40:10.000]  No, they're not.
[40:10.340 --> 40:10.520]  Oh.
[40:11.300 --> 40:12.020]  Anyone want to guess?
[40:12.240 --> 40:13.400]  You have the list right in front of you.
[40:13.500 --> 40:14.210]  I don't know why you're guessing wrong.
[40:14.280 --> 40:15.980]  There's no way for me to guess because this is...
[40:15.980 --> 40:17.320]  Okay, I'm turning down your microphone then.
[40:17.380 --> 40:18.040]  Rob, how about you?
[40:18.130 --> 40:19.380]  You want to, you want to try to guess?
[40:20.210 --> 40:22.150]  Um, oh, wow.
[40:22.500 --> 40:24.630]  Uh, I, I, I can't say my blog, can I?
[40:24.740 --> 40:26.630]  The most evil internet company out there.
[40:27.170 --> 40:28.190]  The, the most evil.
[40:28.320 --> 40:30.320]  That's, that's a pretty big, uh, that's a pretty deep well.
[40:30.420 --> 40:32.340]  I'm not sure I, I would guess which one is the...
[40:32.340 --> 40:33.960]  Okay, so we have two people that don't want to guess.
[40:34.050 --> 40:34.800]  Bernie, how about you?
[40:34.840 --> 40:35.570]  You want to try this?
[40:35.570 --> 40:37.630]  You mean, you mean internet company?
[40:37.800 --> 40:40.760]  You mean company that does business over the internet or actually provides...
[40:40.760 --> 40:45.440]  A company that provides some kind of a service, either giving you internet or something over the internet.
[40:45.710 --> 40:47.540]  I, I would put Comcast up there.
[40:47.540 --> 40:48.610]  You're right, number one.
[40:48.760 --> 40:49.550]  Bernie gets it.
[40:49.740 --> 40:50.960]  Number one is Comcast.
[40:51.190 --> 40:51.670]  Congratulations.
[40:51.670 --> 40:51.820]  Congratulations.
[40:52.800 --> 40:54.500]  Ah, we have such a difficult group to work with.
[40:54.650 --> 40:55.280]  Ah, suck a dad.
[40:55.280 --> 40:56.940]  Number two, I want to get through this really quickly.
[40:56.980 --> 40:58.320]  Number two is Facebook.
[40:59.110 --> 41:01.040]  Um, number three is Electronic Arts.
[41:01.170 --> 41:02.800]  Can someone tell me who Electronic Arts is?
[41:03.150 --> 41:04.460]  Uh, uh, uh, game company.
[41:04.830 --> 41:05.190]  Really?
[41:05.280 --> 41:06.090]  That's why I don't know.
[41:06.280 --> 41:07.590]  Uh, yeah, yeah.
[41:07.780 --> 41:11.340]  Well, they beat out Microsoft and Time Warner, who are number four and number five.
[41:12.000 --> 41:15.500]  Um, and based on this, does anyone want to guess who number six and seven is?
[41:15.540 --> 41:16.540]  And that's where I'm going to stop it.
[41:17.440 --> 41:17.860]  Anybody?
[41:18.540 --> 41:19.260]  America Online?
[41:19.540 --> 41:21.900]  Uh, America Online was number eight.
[41:22.300 --> 41:24.050]  So you were close, but no cigar.
[41:24.670 --> 41:26.440]  Um, okay, number six was GoDaddy.
[41:26.520 --> 41:27.320]  Number seven was Twitter.
[41:28.710 --> 41:31.590]  We can go into this more, but I just thought it was kind of a fun list.
[41:31.840 --> 41:34.820]  Um, there are some interesting, um, interesting names on there.
[41:34.920 --> 41:38.300]  Ranker.com, if you want to see the most evil internet companies out there.
[41:38.380 --> 41:41.550]  212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[41:41.690 --> 41:47.740]  We are taking phone calls here on Off the Hook if, uh, anybody has comments on what they consider to be evil on the internet.
[41:47.900 --> 41:51.980]  Uh, naked celebrity photos or, um, or anything else that we might have discussed.
[41:52.170 --> 41:53.690]  Is Ranker.com on that list?
[41:54.070 --> 41:55.110]  You know, that's a good question.
[41:55.340 --> 41:56.880]  I, I, I can peruse it and see.
[41:57.040 --> 41:58.480]  Um, I don't think so.
[41:58.780 --> 42:02.480]  Google is number 12, by the way, so they seem to, um, they seem to like them quite a bit.
[42:02.980 --> 42:12.520]  Um, while we're waiting for phone calls, um, I have a letter here that somebody sent to us, uh, that addresses some of the things that we were saying in the past, um, couple of weeks.
[42:12.690 --> 42:12.800]  What?
[42:13.260 --> 42:13.320]  What?
[42:13.550 --> 42:14.550]  Etsy's number 26.
[42:15.440 --> 42:15.840]  Really?
[42:16.440 --> 42:16.840]  Huh?
[42:18.920 --> 42:19.740]  Well, that's good.
[42:20.540 --> 42:21.780]  Pirate Bay is number 36.
[42:22.190 --> 42:22.960]  All right, I found a letter.
[42:23.630 --> 42:30.050]  Um, I've, uh, listened to your show, managed to catch up, uh, after the summer holidays with all the shows, which is good, commendable.
[42:30.420 --> 42:37.520]  On the show of August 28th, you were talking about the Dutch OM, which stands for Open Bar Ministerie, which translates to the Public Prosecution Service.
[42:38.210 --> 42:44.440]  Uh, the week before you were talking about the list of 10 Google things, I do agree with some things you said on the show.
[42:44.550 --> 42:48.940]  I find it rather cheap to disk technology you have no experience with, as was done a few times.
[42:49.360 --> 42:50.460]  Chromecast comes to mind.
[42:51.000 --> 42:52.040]  Same with Chrome.
[42:52.380 --> 42:54.670]  Someone said they used it once, which is rather cheap.
[42:55.040 --> 42:56.900]  And, uh, yeah, I have to agree.
[42:56.980 --> 42:58.570]  Whoever said that wasn't me.
[42:58.630 --> 43:02.920]  I've used it a lot and boy, uh, but, um, Google Maps.
[43:03.460 --> 43:08.130]  Actually, uh, did you forget how the technology brought to the masses by Google transformed quite a few things?
[43:08.550 --> 43:13.240]  Not always for good in the long run, but it made other things possible, brought new ideas, new ways of doing things.
[43:13.460 --> 43:20.110]  Google Maps was one of the first mapping services, which was actually nearly usable at its conception and has brought us a few other great services.
[43:20.240 --> 43:25.920]  Without Google Maps, no open street maps since there would be, uh, there would not have been any need for it.
[43:26.020 --> 43:28.420]  Uh, whether that's a good thing or not is another discussion.
[43:28.570 --> 43:32.710]  You also kept linking the mapping service to the navigational service.
[43:33.050 --> 43:36.960]  While they do share the same name, they're not entirely the same thing.
[43:37.170 --> 43:40.210]  If the navigational software doesn't have the features you need, look for another.
[43:40.630 --> 43:42.560]  It's what competing applications are all about.
[43:42.700 --> 43:44.920]  I'm pretty sure there's one that does all you need.
[43:45.000 --> 43:48.240]  If you put all your eggs in the Google basket, you're bound to get burned at some point.
[43:48.380 --> 43:50.780]  I'd recommend Waze as a navigation service.
[43:51.140 --> 43:51.740]  Good idea.
[43:51.820 --> 43:52.360]  I use Waze.
[43:52.440 --> 43:53.400]  I like Waze, but you know what?
[43:53.520 --> 43:54.380]  Google bought Waze.
[43:54.500 --> 44:01.560]  I think that's part of the problem is that every time something comes along, Google comes and buys it and either shuts it down or, or, or takes it over.
[44:01.680 --> 44:04.180]  And I think that's sort of why people are a little bit apprehensive.
[44:04.320 --> 44:05.100]  I disagree.
[44:05.340 --> 44:12.380]  I think both, um, MapQuest and Maps.com predated Google Maps and both of those were very useful.
[44:12.680 --> 44:16.940]  Maps.com, I used a lot back in the day and I think a lot of people use MapQuest.
[44:17.140 --> 44:23.020]  So I don't know where those fit in historically in the timeline, but, um, yeah, for what it's worth.
[44:23.200 --> 44:26.600]  The point Mike made about owning your data is also somewhat moot.
[44:26.800 --> 44:32.320]  You accept that when you offer your changes to Google, if you don't want that, don't use the service.
[44:33.620 --> 44:34.100]  All right.
[44:34.200 --> 44:36.480]  Chrome is all in all, not a bad browser.
[44:36.560 --> 44:38.960]  If you don't want to submit your data to Google, don't sign in.
[44:39.300 --> 44:42.000]  If you don't want to use their search engine, change to something else.
[44:42.360 --> 44:47.760]  You know, the problems I have with this is that you kind of get snuck into the signing in sometimes without realizing it.
[44:47.840 --> 44:54.980]  Like you might be on Gmail, you close the window, but you're not signed off at Gmail and then every search you have is, is being logged and associated with you.
[44:55.140 --> 44:56.340]  A lot of people fall for that.
[44:56.710 --> 45:06.900]  Um, it's a, um, uh, Chrome is a player in the field of browsers offering competition to Firefox, Internet Explorer, Opera, challenging the others to come up with ideas of their own to keep their share of the market.
[45:07.660 --> 45:08.900]  Firefox is a memory hog.
[45:09.060 --> 45:10.380]  Internet Explorer is dead slow.
[45:10.600 --> 45:11.660]  They all have their issues.
[45:12.160 --> 45:13.600]  If you don't like it, don't use it.
[45:13.680 --> 45:17.240]  I don't personally, but yet you don't say anything about it.
[45:17.340 --> 45:18.140]  That's, that's critical.
[45:18.280 --> 45:18.710]  That's negative.
[45:19.020 --> 45:23.620]  And I think that's what we're trying to do is balance it and show the negativity in just about all of these things.
[45:23.680 --> 45:30.210]  For instance, I can say about Chrome, because I have used it, that it opens a million applications and, uh, doesn't shut them down.
[45:30.480 --> 45:41.580]  And while you might say that Firefox is a memory hog because it's using a whole lot of memory all at once, Chrome is also a memory hog because it's using a bunch of applications with little bits of memory that add up.
[45:42.240 --> 45:42.760]  All right.
[45:42.800 --> 45:43.660]  Can I get a way of saying that?
[45:43.980 --> 45:45.040]  I think you can.
[45:45.140 --> 45:47.240]  That's a, that's a fair description of using Chrome.
[45:47.440 --> 45:52.880]  It, it opens up multiple copies of its process and, and, uh, closing the window doesn't always shut the program down.
[45:53.120 --> 45:54.120]  And yeah, it's a pain.
[45:54.360 --> 45:54.560]  Yeah.
[45:54.940 --> 45:59.080]  You know, another thing that, that bugs me, this is, I guess, kind of unrelated, but it is sort of related.
[45:59.260 --> 46:02.760]  I had this great, um, uh, plugin, is that what you call it?
[46:02.780 --> 46:03.600]  A plugin or an add-on?
[46:03.740 --> 46:06.960]  I can never tell the difference between a plugin and an add-on on a, on a browser.
[46:07.080 --> 46:07.620]  I really can't.
[46:07.900 --> 46:09.180]  Uh, do you want to know the difference?
[46:09.180 --> 46:11.880]  Really quickly, if you can... A plugin is native code.
[46:12.040 --> 46:16.180]  The add-ons and extensions are JavaScript and HTML and that kind of stuff.
[46:16.300 --> 46:16.460]  Okay.
[46:16.520 --> 46:17.420]  And why should I care about that?
[46:17.480 --> 46:17.880]  Why does that matter?
[46:17.880 --> 46:18.640]  Maybe you shouldn't.
[46:18.780 --> 46:19.020]  Okay.
[46:19.200 --> 46:23.440]  So point is, I had this thing that, that told me the weather.
[46:23.440 --> 46:24.760]  It was very handy.
[46:24.920 --> 46:28.820]  It, it, it had a little, uh, red circle when there was a severe weather thing coming along.
[46:28.980 --> 46:30.940]  Uh, it had green when everything was okay.
[46:31.210 --> 46:38.080]  It was called Forecast Fox and it worked great on Firefox until Firefox decided to push an upgrade that made it incompatible.
[46:38.210 --> 46:40.180]  And apparently nobody is updating this program.
[46:40.300 --> 46:41.680]  It only works now on Chrome.
[46:42.140 --> 46:46.200]  And I don't want to use Chrome just for a plugin slash add-on or whatever it is.
[46:46.620 --> 46:50.080]  And, uh, I've tried all kinds of other ones and they all do stupid things.
[46:50.160 --> 46:53.000]  Like for instance, I get an alert now when there's a tornado in Iowa.
[46:53.160 --> 46:54.480]  I don't need to know that.
[46:54.480 --> 46:55.680]  I wanted to be local.
[46:55.780 --> 46:57.000]  It was perfect the way it was.
[46:57.380 --> 47:01.960]  And, um, and, and someone always has to tweak something and make it incompatible and not fix it.
[47:02.100 --> 47:03.080]  That's what annoys me.
[47:03.240 --> 47:06.500]  I prefer my solution to checking the weather, which is, uh, it's a window.
[47:06.710 --> 47:07.900]  It's not a computer window.
[47:08.100 --> 47:08.940]  It's, it's an actual window.
[47:09.300 --> 47:09.300]  Yeah.
[47:09.380 --> 47:09.960]  Thank you.
[47:10.020 --> 47:10.620]  Thank you for that.
[47:10.780 --> 47:15.340]  But you know, if we're going to be using technology, let's, let's use it to our, uh, our, our purposes.
[47:15.660 --> 47:21.660]  So Rob's solution is okay for knowing the current weather, but if you want to know like the weather, like, should I bring a raincoat with me to work today?
[47:21.820 --> 47:27.520]  Like you, you need some sort of access to the powerful supercomputers that predict the weather.
[47:27.710 --> 47:31.520]  And then the humans who interpret those supercomputers and tell you what the weather is going to be.
[47:31.600 --> 47:38.480]  And you can use a television, you can use a radio, or you can use the internet, but like you can't predict I like the weather just by looking out the window.
[47:39.100 --> 47:40.020]  Well, if you're really good...
[47:40.020 --> 47:40.960]  At least not with any reliability.
[47:41.400 --> 47:41.940]  You might be.
[47:42.020 --> 47:42.460]  I don't know.
[47:42.540 --> 47:45.700]  But the point is, I just want this to work on my browser, the browser of my choice.
[47:45.980 --> 47:48.960]  And instead, I'm being pressured to switch to the Google browser.
[47:48.960 --> 47:50.020]  I don't want to do that.
[47:50.520 --> 47:55.200]  So if anyone has an idea for plug-in, add-on, whatever...
[47:55.560 --> 47:56.760]  Which is that, by the way?
[47:56.800 --> 47:58.120]  Can you tell by me describing it?
[47:58.240 --> 48:00.400]  My guess is that it's an add-on or an extension.
[48:00.700 --> 48:01.040]  Wow.
[48:01.360 --> 48:02.760]  Which one of them is in Chrome.
[48:03.060 --> 48:03.280]  Oh, that's a third thing now.
[48:03.920 --> 48:05.340]  Extensions, add-ons, and plug-ins.
[48:05.520 --> 48:06.210]  Add-ons and extensions are in the same thing.
[48:06.210 --> 48:07.320]  One of them's in Chrome.
[48:07.480 --> 48:08.400]  One of them's in Firefox.
[48:08.780 --> 48:10.020]  I don't know what's the difference.
[48:10.240 --> 48:12.080]  They can't even agree to call it the same thing.
[48:12.210 --> 48:13.260]  That's what bugs me.
[48:13.920 --> 48:15.800]  Okay, then we got to Project ARA.
[48:16.160 --> 48:17.020]  Am I pronouncing that right?
[48:17.500 --> 48:17.740]  Yes.
[48:18.060 --> 48:21.200]  While in itself, it sounds crazy, I personally like it.
[48:21.280 --> 48:26.900]  As it stands right now, when you buy some piece of equipment, you are bound by whatever the manufacturer thinks is the best mix of ingredients.
[48:27.980 --> 48:34.710]  ARA, whenever it manages to take off, will allow you to plug in whatever piece you want to use, not what the manufacturer thinks.
[48:34.710 --> 48:38.520]  I don't get why Kyle immediately went off on a tangent and saying it was stupid.
[48:38.940 --> 48:42.100]  Technology needs to be challenged, and here he pretty much accepts the status quo.
[48:42.740 --> 48:48.660]  I admit I don't know very much about Project ARA to start with, but Kyle, you think it's stupid.
[48:49.620 --> 48:51.840]  Okay, it's not really stupid.
[48:52.000 --> 49:00.440]  I think it's a good idea to have serviceable stuff, stuff that's upgradable, stuff that's obsolescence-proof.
[49:02.860 --> 49:24.340]  But I think the amount of materials and waste that this project would create, given the amount of space it would require to space out the device, as far as PCB real estate, I think it would create more waste than you're actually trying to prevent.
[49:24.340 --> 49:30.980]  And I think that was a discussion that I had, the logic that I had heard when some of my friends were talking about it.
[49:31.100 --> 49:37.240]  I could be wrong, but I think it's a nice idea, and there's a lot of old technology that's serviceable.
[49:37.460 --> 49:45.900]  And we kind of thought about that when we came up with components, and then SMD and other things that are involved in integrated circuits.
[49:46.040 --> 49:47.620]  So they have been standardized.
[49:48.340 --> 49:52.700]  You have either surface mount or larger components.
[49:53.000 --> 50:01.860]  But beyond that, it would be really a lot of plastics and a lot of real estate, from my understanding of how that worked.
[50:01.960 --> 50:02.740]  Not that it's stupid.
[50:02.740 --> 50:03.300]  It's a good idea.
[50:03.380 --> 50:06.380]  It's just it could create other unintended problems.
[50:07.020 --> 50:08.360]  All right, continuing here.
[50:08.580 --> 50:09.560]  And thanks for this letter.
[50:09.560 --> 50:10.960]  It's written by John, by the way.
[50:11.160 --> 50:11.920]  John, I'm sorry.
[50:12.200 --> 50:12.760]  Or Jan.
[50:12.960 --> 50:13.360]  I'm not really sure.
[50:14.000 --> 50:14.100]  John.
[50:14.140 --> 50:14.540]  John?
[50:14.660 --> 50:15.600]  You see, there's so many ways to pronounce.
[50:15.780 --> 50:16.360]  Three letters here.
[50:16.440 --> 50:17.900]  I don't know which way it's supposed to be pronounced.
[50:18.320 --> 50:19.140]  Could be any of them.
[50:19.800 --> 50:22.180]  Chromecast is also being dissed without really knowing the product.
[50:22.380 --> 50:25.080]  Mentioning that it uses USB is already a fault since it's HDMI.
[50:25.440 --> 50:29.000]  And while I don't see the actual use of the product, I guess people will.
[50:29.320 --> 50:32.000]  Now, on self-driving cars here, I pretty much agree with Mike.
[50:32.320 --> 50:35.880]  People have shown time and again that they're incapable of driving at high speeds.
[50:36.080 --> 50:40.440]  The idea that you could call up one of these cars without having to own one sounds like a good idea.
[50:40.700 --> 50:42.900]  So in a way, it might reduce the amount of cars in the road.
[50:43.040 --> 50:49.600]  It could also be a lot more efficient energy-wise than cars currently are, as humans are not capable of getting the perfect amount of revs.
[50:49.800 --> 50:53.760]  The fact that there might be people on the roads not as committed to driving, seeing how many accidents happen.
[50:54.060 --> 50:56.440]  Maybe there shouldn't be less people on the road, but less people driving.
[50:56.820 --> 50:57.960]  Could not agree less.
[50:57.960 --> 51:06.840]  Because, you know, just because there are people out there that don't know how to drive doesn't mean that they should be out there in cars being driven by computers.
[51:07.280 --> 51:12.040]  It means that more people need to know how to run the things in the first place.
[51:12.760 --> 51:17.460]  Is that really a hard concept to grasp, that people need to be better drivers?
[51:17.700 --> 51:21.210]  Right now, cars are being manufactured that parallel park for you.
[51:21.300 --> 51:22.540]  You don't have to have that skill anymore.
[51:22.710 --> 51:27.140]  It means you're getting in a car and you don't know how to drive the thing, And you're still responsible for it.
[51:27.500 --> 51:29.200]  Giving that up is not the answer.
[51:29.600 --> 51:39.960]  Learning how to operate machinery, how to operate computers, how to operate technology on all levels, that is something we need people to do, not simply hand it over to Google, right?
[51:40.280 --> 51:41.520]  This is true.
[51:41.860 --> 51:49.380]  We have seen society change on things like nobody knows anyone's phone number anymore because we all got used to keeping it in our address books.
[51:49.460 --> 51:52.360]  And I only barely know my own at this point.
[51:52.360 --> 51:54.440]  And I kind of miss knowing people's phone numbers.
[51:54.440 --> 51:55.960]  I'm not against driverless cars.
[51:56.040 --> 51:56.860]  I think it could be fun.
[51:57.020 --> 51:57.840]  It could be a lot of fun.
[51:57.920 --> 52:00.320]  But I am against saying, oh, people can't do this.
[52:00.480 --> 52:01.600]  You know what else people can't do?
[52:01.710 --> 52:02.320]  No, no, no, no.
[52:02.340 --> 52:06.280]  They can't keep society going without starting wars.
[52:06.360 --> 52:07.760]  You're going to hand that over to Google as well?
[52:07.920 --> 52:10.160]  They can't run religion without conflicting with each other.
[52:10.240 --> 52:12.080]  Maybe Google can solve that problem as well.
[52:12.520 --> 52:13.440]  We're human beings.
[52:13.440 --> 52:14.080]  We're imperfect.
[52:14.080 --> 52:16.560]  We have to get better at what we do, not simply give up.
[52:16.560 --> 52:18.180]  No, humans have physical limitations.
[52:18.180 --> 52:22.900]  We cannot react faster than, you know, a few hundred milliseconds to any stimulus.
[52:23.140 --> 52:25.940]  It is just not physically possible.
[52:26.120 --> 52:27.660]  And computers have different limitations.
[52:27.960 --> 52:31.140]  And there are things that humans are not good at.
[52:31.320 --> 52:37.540]  And biologically, you know, evolutionary, we did not evolve to drive cars.
[52:38.140 --> 52:39.800]  We didn't evolve to use Google either.
[52:41.100 --> 52:41.540]  Okay.
[52:41.540 --> 52:44.560]  We apparently evolved to invent Google, which is kind of cool.
[52:45.120 --> 52:51.520]  But I don't know if these cars will be better or worse in the long run at humans.
[52:51.520 --> 52:57.120]  But there are certainly there's certainly a maximum degree to which humans can be good at driving cars.
[52:57.120 --> 53:00.460]  And it is possible that computers will one day be better than that.
[53:00.560 --> 53:01.020]  I don't know.
[53:01.160 --> 53:01.880]  We'll find out.
[53:02.280 --> 53:14.700]  But to just say that people should like magically transcend their biological limitations in order to operate the technology is just to say it's unrealistic really understays the case.
[53:14.700 --> 53:19.760]  Also, I think there's a need for, like, wider transit improvements.
[53:19.760 --> 53:36.420]  And in the meantime, since cars are what people really are after, and they're clamoring, supposedly, for this, it seems that to have a vehicle that can go anywhere and do these sorts of things would be valuable in the long run.
[53:36.420 --> 53:37.640]  And, oh, my headphone.
[53:37.860 --> 53:38.420]  In the long run.
[53:38.640 --> 53:51.380]  But ultimately, it's, it's not necessarily, it's not necessarily got to be the rule of the road, like that everyone can't be in control of their own vehicle.
[53:53.900 --> 53:54.580]  What do you say?
[53:54.740 --> 53:55.600]  Are you forward or against it?
[53:55.760 --> 53:56.420]  I'm unclear.
[53:57.820 --> 54:04.440]  Well, I mean, I think it's a good idea that for us to be pushing for these technologies, we should have mass transit.
[54:04.440 --> 54:08.740]  But in the meantime, what people want is basically mass transit individually.
[54:08.980 --> 54:12.040]  So somebody else is driving their individual vehicle.
[54:12.320 --> 54:21.700]  So I think it's, it's good on a certain level, but it really, if that's what they want, they don't want to actually think about driving, they should be really interested in mass transit.
[54:22.020 --> 54:26.400]  There is nothing physical that you can say humans can do better than robots or computers.
[54:26.400 --> 54:35.140]  Every post-apocalyptic fiction I've ever seen has to do with a society that robots and computers take over and are doing things better.
[54:35.140 --> 54:36.900]  But we're not humans anymore.
[54:37.000 --> 54:38.100]  We're not living as human beings.
[54:38.380 --> 54:49.180]  I would just point out that automobiles and motorized transit in general are themselves a radically disruptive technology that allow humans to surpass their physical limitations and go faster than we can run.
[54:50.200 --> 54:57.200]  And to say, you know, if cars were first invented, to say people should just learn to eat better and run faster is not realistic.
[54:57.200 --> 54:58.760]  It is not how humans are built.
[54:58.940 --> 55:01.710]  Cars are better at going quickly than humans are.
[55:01.880 --> 55:11.320]  And so maybe we'll find out if it is the case that computers are better at making decisions quickly, you know, driving decisions quickly than humans are.
[55:11.460 --> 55:11.880]  I don't know.
[55:12.020 --> 55:15.360]  So your limit is as fast as people can run, basically.
[55:15.680 --> 55:16.800]  No, that's not my limit at all.
[55:16.860 --> 55:17.900]  I think computers are cool.
[55:18.100 --> 55:19.040]  Technology is cool.
[55:19.180 --> 55:28.740]  It's great that I'm able to come up here from downtown where I work using either a bicycle or a mass transit faster than I could by running.
[55:28.940 --> 55:29.880]  That's great.
[55:31.780 --> 55:35.460]  And maybe, you know, one day we'll have an even better answer.
[55:36.080 --> 55:37.180]  I don't know.
[55:37.340 --> 55:41.100]  I think it's especially relevant because of the way cars have evolved.
[55:41.380 --> 55:43.020]  There are so many cars on the road.
[55:43.140 --> 55:45.820]  The density of traffic is really absurd.
[55:45.820 --> 55:50.140]  It's not the way it was at the dawn of the automobile age, right?
[55:50.260 --> 55:51.620]  There were not complete roads.
[55:51.760 --> 55:55.240]  Now we have massive amounts of crowding, massive amounts of traffic.
[55:55.660 --> 56:00.600]  The proximity when you're driving in a city of you to another vehicle is insane.
[56:00.620 --> 56:07.780]  And so in those dense places, if you're not going to actually invest in mass transit, you should consider these technologies because of the amount of crowding.
[56:07.780 --> 56:20.580]  You see, I like a society where people are good at what they do, where people are trained to operate the machinery that they live their lives with, whether it's operating a boat, whether it's working a farm, or whether it's driving a car.
[56:20.660 --> 56:27.340]  And imagine if all the people on the road were able to do all the basic things, not rely on technology to be their crutch.
[56:27.340 --> 56:28.800]  And that's what I see more and more of.
[56:28.900 --> 56:32.520]  It's resulting in worse drivers and more people on the road, which I think is a bad thing.
[56:32.710 --> 56:33.600]  Anyway, let me finish this letter.
[56:33.740 --> 56:37.480]  Unfortunately, none of the phone calls stuck around, so we won't be able to take any of those.
[56:37.960 --> 56:42.400]  But the comment near the end of that section about Google Fiber, I don't quite get either.
[56:42.620 --> 56:44.940]  More connectivity seems like a good idea, not a bad idea.
[56:45.860 --> 56:48.710]  What you do with said connectivity is another question, of course.
[56:49.300 --> 56:50.780]  Other than these comments, keep up the show.
[56:50.860 --> 56:51.960]  I really enjoy listening to you guys.
[56:51.960 --> 56:57.400]  And they want to know, John, Jan, whatever, wants to know if we can get the Comrex back.
[56:57.580 --> 56:59.920]  We're going to try to get the Comrex back, working on it right...
[56:59.920 --> 57:03.260]  In fact, Kyle's back there right now looking at it, and we'll try to figure that out.
[57:03.620 --> 57:05.900]  But we are out of time, unfortunately.
[57:06.900 --> 57:07.980]  Boy, I wish we had more time.
[57:08.700 --> 57:11.880]  O-T-H at 2600.com is our email address.
[57:12.460 --> 57:14.120]  And Rob, I think you've got something to say.
[57:14.420 --> 57:18.300]  Yes, 2600 meetings everywhere this Friday, 2600.com slash meetings.
[57:18.700 --> 57:20.420]  The first Friday of every month.
[57:20.420 --> 57:23.100]  Or if you're in Israel, the first Thursday of every month.
[57:23.180 --> 57:23.640]  Yeah, that's true.
[57:23.840 --> 57:25.340]  We have two Israeli meetings now.
[57:27.080 --> 57:29.800]  Again, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[57:30.080 --> 57:32.140]  Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show coming up next.