[00:00.000 --> 00:01.400]  2-2-9-9.
[00:01.560 --> 00:03.700]  Harlem, we are not here to scare you.
[00:03.700 --> 00:05.440]  We're here to prepare you.
[00:07.960 --> 00:11.440]  And you are listening to radio station WBAI.
[00:11.520 --> 00:13.020]  The time is 7-0-1.
[00:13.320 --> 00:15.380]  Time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:20.650 --> 00:25.130]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:26.070 --> 00:28.090]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:28.690 --> 00:30.610]  Now I can't make a call.
[00:31.370 --> 00:33.390]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:35.350 --> 00:38.910]  They would, but really bombed the best, expect the worst.
[00:39.610 --> 00:42.570]  I hope that's understood, but really bombed.
[02:10.730 --> 02:11.870]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:12.050 --> 02:12.890]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:13.050 --> 02:16.630]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:16.770 --> 02:17.890]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:18.170 --> 02:18.470]  Hello.
[02:18.930 --> 02:19.150]  Kyle.
[02:19.570 --> 02:20.350]  Hello, everyone.
[02:20.770 --> 02:21.490]  And Bernie S.
[02:21.950 --> 02:23.070]  Greetings from Scotland.
[02:23.350 --> 02:24.490]  I'm really in Pennsylvania.
[02:24.670 --> 02:25.330]  I wish you were in Scotland.
[02:25.430 --> 02:25.950]  Yeah, really funny.
[02:26.070 --> 02:29.470]  It's going to be an experience tomorrow in Scotland.
[02:29.470 --> 02:33.670]  In fact, if we have any Scottish listeners who are listening live, we'd like to hear from them.
[02:34.010 --> 02:37.230]  And maybe tell us what you're going to be doing tomorrow.
[02:37.370 --> 02:41.550]  How you might be voting for independence or not.
[02:43.370 --> 02:43.730]  Dependence?
[02:43.730 --> 02:43.950]  Yeah.
[02:44.270 --> 02:44.830]  I'm sorry.
[02:44.910 --> 02:45.430]  Is that the other choice?
[02:45.830 --> 02:46.730]  Nobody heard what you said.
[02:47.290 --> 02:48.650]  Dependence is, I guess, the other choice?
[02:48.970 --> 02:50.630]  Continued dependence, I suppose.
[02:51.070 --> 02:52.710]  Hey, tonight's a special program.
[02:53.110 --> 02:56.070]  We're going to have Shari from Maker Faire on in just a little bit.
[02:56.070 --> 03:00.430]  We're going to be giving away some tickets to the Maker Faire coming up this weekend in Queens.
[03:01.190 --> 03:05.410]  And that's going to be a ton of fun, as it tends to be, year after year.
[03:06.050 --> 03:09.730]  And we have some news stories to talk about as well.
[03:09.810 --> 03:11.770]  But first, anyone have any adventures this week?
[03:11.850 --> 03:15.070]  Anything happen technology-wise or just life-wise?
[03:16.370 --> 03:17.610]  I saw an announcement.
[03:17.750 --> 03:18.770]  That's kind of interesting.
[03:18.930 --> 03:19.770]  Tell us about the announcement, Mike.
[03:19.950 --> 03:31.730]  Laura Poitras, who, as we all know, is the journalist and filmmaker who was one of the first people to be in touch with Edward Snowden and has done all kinds of other work along these issues over the past years.
[03:31.850 --> 03:32.690]  Her film is coming out.
[03:33.470 --> 03:34.890]  And her film is...
[03:36.510 --> 03:38.490]  I believe it has some hope footage in it.
[03:38.550 --> 03:38.890]  Is that correct?
[03:39.290 --> 03:42.830]  I haven't seen it yet, but it very well might.
[03:42.830 --> 03:50.130]  It's got some of the... You may have seen the videos that she took with Edward Snowden when he was in Hong Kong and elsewhere.
[03:50.410 --> 03:53.810]  And that was, you know, sort of leading towards this project.
[03:54.090 --> 03:55.510]  The title is Citizen Four.
[03:55.770 --> 03:58.150]  It's going to be released at the New York Film Festival.
[03:58.490 --> 03:59.490]  Citizen Four.
[03:59.670 --> 04:00.530]  I don't know what it means.
[04:00.710 --> 04:01.510]  How do you spell four?
[04:02.190 --> 04:02.930]  F-O-U-R.
[04:03.230 --> 04:04.710]  So, Citizen Number Four.
[04:04.950 --> 04:08.050]  Well, every time I've seen it, it's been written out, F-O-U-R.
[04:08.750 --> 04:09.150]  Wow.
[04:09.330 --> 04:09.550]  Okay.
[04:10.050 --> 04:10.930]  I like the title.
[04:11.070 --> 04:12.110]  I don't know exactly what it means.
[04:12.110 --> 04:12.850]  I don't know what it means.
[04:13.030 --> 04:13.730]  I don't know a lot about it.
[04:13.750 --> 04:17.570]  I bought a ticket anyway without knowing anything about it, but maybe more information will be...
[04:17.570 --> 04:17.950]  So impulsive.
[04:18.210 --> 04:18.290]  Wow.
[04:18.630 --> 04:19.110]  ...forthcoming, yeah.
[04:19.250 --> 04:20.570]  Well, Bernie, this is exciting news, isn't it?
[04:20.970 --> 04:21.250]  Very.
[04:21.550 --> 04:22.610]  I am looking forward to this.
[04:22.690 --> 04:25.630]  There may even be footage from the Hope...
[04:26.990 --> 04:28.790]  Hope... Gee, what was the name of the Hope before last?
[04:28.790 --> 04:29.790]  Probably Hope Number Nine.
[04:29.910 --> 04:32.210]  And I can't believe you don't know the name of the Hope before last.
[04:32.270 --> 04:33.190]  I'm just all confused.
[04:33.190 --> 04:39.130]  But yes, that was where one of our keynote speakers was Bill William Binney, another NSA whistleblower.
[04:41.470 --> 05:00.050]  And I have read that a very short documentary called The Program that she'd released with that footage was seen by Edward Snowden and played a part in his deciding to reach out to Laura in the first place.
[05:00.050 --> 05:00.130]  Yes.
[05:00.310 --> 05:06.550]  So this is all tied in together, and it's going to be interesting to see how she represents this in the film, the new film.
[05:07.870 --> 05:09.430]  Bernie, I'm hearing some audio in the background.
[05:09.590 --> 05:13.190]  You wouldn't by any chance happen to be listening in on the BAI staff meeting going on right now.
[05:13.270 --> 05:15.470]  Oh, I am eavesdropping on the WBA staff meeting.
[05:15.470 --> 05:15.490]  I figured.
[05:15.550 --> 05:16.690]  I will turn it down.
[05:16.730 --> 05:17.110]  I'm sorry.
[05:17.330 --> 05:18.770]  I figured that's what was happening.
[05:19.130 --> 05:24.850]  Yes, folks, the WBAI staff meeting by tradition always happens when we're on the air, so we can never go.
[05:24.930 --> 05:25.830]  That's where Rob is, actually.
[05:25.950 --> 05:26.670]  Rob is at the meeting.
[05:27.150 --> 05:28.590]  We've outsmarted them at their own game.
[05:28.590 --> 05:29.810]  So, yes.
[05:30.790 --> 05:31.370]  Thanks, Rob.
[05:31.730 --> 05:32.510]  Yeah, thank you, Rob.
[05:32.810 --> 05:38.290]  Well, he can't hear us, but we might be able to hear him over the telephone if we listen to the meeting later.
[05:39.070 --> 05:48.350]  Okay, so in addition to the stuff we're going to be talking about a little bit later on, we have some listener feedback that I'd like to read a little bit of.
[05:49.730 --> 05:51.350]  Cheshire, our friend Cheshire, writes in.
[05:51.510 --> 05:57.410]  He was looking over the unused two-letter ISO 3166 country codes because, well, that's the kind of thing he does.
[05:58.110 --> 06:06.810]  After we talked about Scotland possibly becoming independent and needing one of those codes, he noticed that GS was available.
[06:07.010 --> 06:07.210]  GS.
[06:07.750 --> 06:15.010]  And he says it would be a good code, meaning Great Scott, which would devolve from Great Britain should they split from the United Kingdom.
[06:16.390 --> 06:17.190]  Great Scott.
[06:17.310 --> 06:17.750]  You know what?
[06:17.750 --> 06:19.330]  It's as good as any, I guess.
[06:19.530 --> 06:20.350]  Why not?
[06:20.690 --> 06:21.330]  I like it.
[06:21.330 --> 06:22.390]  It's not great.
[06:22.610 --> 06:24.910]  It's not great, but it does mean something at least.
[06:24.910 --> 06:34.070]  The Cheshire Catalyst does have more experience than just about anybody, which is to say some experience, getting codes assigned, not country codes.
[06:34.450 --> 06:35.070]  So maybe...
[06:35.070 --> 06:35.650]  He has his own area code.
[06:35.810 --> 06:35.830]  Yeah, yeah.
[06:35.830 --> 06:36.110]  Do you know that?
[06:36.310 --> 06:37.450]  Well, he does.
[06:37.570 --> 06:38.270]  He shares it.
[06:38.510 --> 06:39.630]  321 is his area code.
[06:40.190 --> 06:44.530]  Yeah, and Great Britain, that makes me think.
[06:44.530 --> 06:48.170]  Was .gb ever given to Great Britain?
[06:48.490 --> 07:00.230]  So the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, to use its full name, is the only exception among the country codes where its ISO country code does not match its domain name.
[07:00.750 --> 07:05.530]  So they have the ISO country code GB, but the domain name .uk, as everyone knows.
[07:05.790 --> 07:07.110]  So I don't know what that means.
[07:07.230 --> 07:10.510]  Okay, I don't know what that means either, because they use .uk all the time.
[07:10.870 --> 07:12.030]  Yeah, .uk is their domain.
[07:12.610 --> 07:13.750]  But if you have...
[07:13.750 --> 07:14.790]  It's not their code, though?
[07:14.970 --> 07:15.790]  It's not their...
[07:15.790 --> 07:24.150]  If you have the ISO, and Cheshire gave us the number, but that standard list of country codes, then it's GB for Great Britain.
[07:24.330 --> 07:25.030]  But it is a code.
[07:25.150 --> 07:25.630]  It is a code.
[07:25.870 --> 07:27.090]  .uk is a code, right?
[07:27.270 --> 07:28.650]  So what is it if it's not...
[07:28.650 --> 07:31.130]  It's not an ISO-approved code.
[07:31.290 --> 07:33.190]  You're saying ISO doesn't approve of .uk?
[07:33.670 --> 07:36.770]  Well, I don't know about the whole organization, but yeah.
[07:37.090 --> 07:38.230]  Okay, no, I didn't know about this.
[07:38.310 --> 07:39.250]  I didn't know this was a controversy.
[07:39.250 --> 07:45.570]  But it's better, because if you ever say GB by accident, then the people in Northern Ireland get really mad.
[07:47.170 --> 07:47.570]  Okay.
[07:47.710 --> 07:51.370]  Because if you write, like, Belfast GB, they will remind you that that is not right.
[07:51.370 --> 07:53.070]  Well, I can't remember the last time I saw a .GB anyway.
[07:53.070 --> 07:54.470]  Well, it's not a .GB.
[07:54.690 --> 07:59.930]  It's just if you have, like, a database that prints out country codes, the Belfast people.
[07:59.990 --> 08:01.190]  But you're saying there's not a .GB.
[08:01.290 --> 08:01.950]  That's what I thought we were talking about.
[08:01.950 --> 08:02.790]  It's not .GB.
[08:03.030 --> 08:04.350]  It's just GB by itself.
[08:04.350 --> 08:06.730]  This is why nobody understands this.
[08:06.970 --> 08:07.070]  Yeah.
[08:07.150 --> 08:08.250]  It's so ridiculous.
[08:08.350 --> 08:09.470]  What about .US?
[08:10.070 --> 08:10.810]  What about it?
[08:11.070 --> 08:12.250]  Well, I want to know.
[08:12.350 --> 08:14.410]  Isn't that the country code for the US?
[08:14.670 --> 08:14.990]  Yes.
[08:15.570 --> 08:16.410]  Right, right.
[08:16.410 --> 08:17.710]  For top-level domains.
[08:17.890 --> 08:19.590]  But is that commonly used in the US?
[08:20.530 --> 08:21.690]  It's not super common.
[08:22.170 --> 08:25.090]  For a long time, it was hard to get .US domain names.
[08:25.170 --> 08:29.050]  You had to get, like, whatever you want, .city, .state, .us.
[08:29.050 --> 08:30.490]  But now you can just buy .US.
[08:30.490 --> 08:31.270]  What's your point, Kyle?
[08:31.370 --> 08:32.170]  I mean, we own the internet.
[08:32.190 --> 08:33.770]  We don't have to use a country code.
[08:34.070 --> 08:34.690]  We're .com.
[08:34.770 --> 08:35.210]  We're .net.
[08:35.270 --> 08:35.730]  We're .org.
[08:35.850 --> 08:36.550]  We invented the thing.
[08:36.750 --> 08:39.830]  I'm just taking exception with the possibility that it's an exception.
[08:40.010 --> 08:41.870]  And .gov, .mil, all of that.
[08:41.890 --> 08:42.830]  It's all ours.
[08:43.550 --> 08:45.690]  Can you imagine if .mil belonged to Russia?
[08:47.290 --> 08:49.310]  That's how we would get through the days.
[08:49.490 --> 08:50.230]  It would be so...
[08:50.230 --> 08:52.030]  You'd be clenching your fist all the time.
[08:52.170 --> 08:53.570]  It would probably be something Cyrillic.
[08:53.870 --> 08:55.010]  Then we'd really be in trouble.
[08:55.010 --> 09:05.290]  Well, it should be a bit more democratic and even, don't you think, where everybody has to use a two-letter country code at the end to designate where they are, if we even care where people are.
[09:06.150 --> 09:07.630]  I will write ICANN a letter.
[09:07.770 --> 09:08.670]  I'm sure they will care.
[09:08.910 --> 09:09.190]  All right.
[09:09.270 --> 09:10.010]  Well, what's their domain?
[09:11.770 --> 09:12.530]  I don't know.
[09:12.890 --> 09:14.190]  Are they ICANN.org?
[09:14.390 --> 09:15.690]  I'm sure one of our listeners knows.
[09:15.930 --> 09:17.630]  And then it's .int, too, .int.
[09:17.870 --> 09:19.550]  Yeah, those are the hard ones to get.
[09:20.150 --> 09:21.730]  Well, .mil is kind of hard to get, too.
[09:21.830 --> 09:22.430]  Trust me on that.
[09:22.970 --> 09:26.610]  But, okay, here's a letter from Louis, or Louie.
[09:26.690 --> 09:27.590]  I'm not really sure how to pronounce it.
[09:27.650 --> 09:29.410]  You guys really need to stop talking about Apple.
[09:29.530 --> 09:32.130]  You don't know what you're talking about and make yourselves look bad, quite frankly.
[09:33.330 --> 09:33.690]  Wow.
[09:34.570 --> 09:36.090]  Well, that's pretty direct, isn't it?
[09:36.250 --> 09:37.470]  I don't want to talk about Apple.
[09:37.470 --> 09:37.890]  How's that?
[09:37.910 --> 09:39.290]  I won't talk about Apple anymore.
[09:39.350 --> 09:40.090]  I don't even remember talking.
[09:40.230 --> 09:41.090]  What did we say about Apple?
[09:41.590 --> 09:43.590]  I mean, we talk about them from time to time.
[09:43.590 --> 09:49.410]  We talked about the security vulnerability that they claimed was not a security vulnerability where all those photos were leaked.
[09:49.770 --> 09:50.730]  Well, we did say...
[09:50.730 --> 09:51.950]  We talked about the payment system, too, I think.
[09:51.950 --> 09:55.370]  Yeah, well, we just mentioned what's been talked about in the papers and all that, I think.
[09:56.030 --> 10:01.310]  Well, Louis Lewis goes on to say, you're still not going to be able to use your credit cards in Europe.
[10:01.470 --> 10:02.150]  This is a different topic.
[10:02.870 --> 10:06.490]  USA is foolishly switching to chip and signature, not chip and pin.
[10:06.810 --> 10:07.550]  And that is correct.
[10:07.690 --> 10:09.630]  It is going to be chip and signature, not chip and pin.
[10:10.190 --> 10:12.030]  Unless it's a debit card, I would imagine.
[10:12.610 --> 10:14.390]  It's the pin that is the important element.
[10:14.530 --> 10:17.310]  If you have to sign, there's really no additional protection.
[10:17.490 --> 10:20.370]  But I don't know where the conclusion is reached that it's not going to work overseas.
[10:20.930 --> 10:22.450]  They simply will require a signature.
[10:22.690 --> 10:23.710]  The chip should work.
[10:24.170 --> 10:28.710]  So I have a chip and signature card, which allegedly can somehow fall back to chip and pin.
[10:28.850 --> 10:29.810]  Chip and sig, Mike.
[10:29.890 --> 10:30.170]  Say it.
[10:30.450 --> 10:30.690]  No.
[10:31.070 --> 10:32.050]  That's how you're supposed to say it.
[10:32.090 --> 10:32.870]  I'm not going to say that.
[10:32.870 --> 10:34.250]  I have a chip and signature card.
[10:34.530 --> 10:36.450]  And Louis Lewis is right.
[10:36.450 --> 10:38.450]  I've tried and failed to use it in Europe.
[10:38.450 --> 10:42.310]  And I have to give them another card with just a mag stripe because they don't like that one.
[10:42.410 --> 10:43.430]  But at least they can figure it out.
[10:43.610 --> 10:52.570]  The whole point of the credit card industry in the United States, sending out all their credit cards all over again with little chips on them, is so that people can use them overseas.
[10:52.730 --> 10:56.010]  So if it doesn't work overseas, they've just wasted a ton of money and time.
[10:57.250 --> 10:58.110]  So I'd like to know...
[10:58.110 --> 10:59.310]  Another letter we can write.
[10:59.430 --> 11:01.370]  Well, I'd just like to know, is this all for naught?
[11:01.370 --> 11:01.410]  It's not.
[11:01.790 --> 11:03.690]  It's really not going to work overseas after all that.
[11:03.810 --> 11:05.270]  That was the point of doing it in the first place.
[11:05.290 --> 11:07.810]  I mean, maybe they'll do it right and the one I have is done wrong somehow.
[11:07.830 --> 11:09.930]  I don't really understand, but...
[11:09.930 --> 11:12.010]  What do you mean by is that the point?
[11:12.830 --> 11:13.670]  Is what the point?
[11:13.830 --> 11:16.030]  The point to get chips in our cards.
[11:16.210 --> 11:17.590]  I don't think it's to like...
[11:17.590 --> 11:24.750]  Well, it's basically a lot of the credit card machines overseas don't have the ability to run a mag stripe.
[11:25.010 --> 11:26.030]  That's ancient technology.
[11:26.450 --> 11:30.810]  And they insist that you have a chip on your card because they insert it that way.
[11:30.810 --> 11:33.210]  And if you don't have one, you can't use your credit card.
[11:33.370 --> 11:42.790]  I honestly don't think that the credit card companies are putting chips in the cards to make it more palatable for us to spend money overseas.
[11:42.950 --> 11:47.090]  Well, it may not be their reason, but it is what they're touting.
[11:47.170 --> 11:51.850]  If you read the letter you get when you get a new credit card, they say, now you can use your credit card overseas.
[11:52.390 --> 11:55.650]  So that's how they're selling it to us, if that's not the reason they're doing it.
[11:55.650 --> 11:57.270]  It's not the reason they're doing it, clearly.
[11:57.270 --> 11:59.690]  They want us to spend money with American companies.
[12:00.010 --> 12:01.130]  They don't want to spend us money.
[12:01.450 --> 12:02.250]  That's my point.
[12:02.350 --> 12:02.590]  All right.
[12:02.690 --> 12:09.570]  But my point is, if after all that, they can't even get the technology right, then they've wasted our time.
[12:09.570 --> 12:10.910]  They've wasted a lot of money.
[12:11.550 --> 12:13.130]  How is that debatable?
[12:13.390 --> 12:14.630]  No, I'm saying no.
[12:14.630 --> 12:18.010]  No, that's exactly why they want to waste our time.
[12:18.850 --> 12:20.350]  Okay, why they want to waste our time.
[12:21.190 --> 12:22.190]  So it doesn't...
[12:22.190 --> 12:23.790]  That's exactly why.
[12:24.050 --> 12:24.850]  It's not...
[12:24.850 --> 12:26.630]  It doesn't work very well.
[12:26.810 --> 12:28.290]  How could we possibly be surprised?
[12:28.810 --> 12:36.850]  I mean, yeah, I might sell it as like an international shopping convenience, but when it doesn't work, I would look at it critically.
[12:36.890 --> 12:52.090]  I do know, and this does trouble me a little bit, that at Hope, when people were buying registration at the main desk, somebody from Europe tried to use their card with our new machine, where we had to get all new hardware to support this, that accepts chips,
[12:52.130 --> 12:52.870]  and it didn't work.
[12:53.110 --> 12:59.650]  So I'm going to be pretty mad if these two technologies are somehow incompatible.
[12:59.850 --> 13:01.470]  But I guess I won't be that surprised.
[13:01.630 --> 13:01.990]  Emmanuel?
[13:02.210 --> 13:02.470]  Yes?
[13:02.650 --> 13:05.630]  I think the credit card companies or the industry is doing this on purpose.
[13:05.770 --> 13:15.590]  I think they have specifically chosen chip and signature as opposed to chip and pin, because chip and pin is going to result in less, pure domestic sales.
[13:15.830 --> 13:21.370]  Because it's another hurdle that the consumer has to jump through to remember the pin and enter it.
[13:21.590 --> 13:29.030]  They just want people to swipe the card or stick the card in and scribble on the little tablet, which is what they do anyway for the most part.
[13:29.450 --> 13:39.150]  And I think the industry has consciously chosen to eliminate the pin code just to make sure that there's more sales.
[13:39.350 --> 13:42.770]  But we've never had the pin code here for credit cards.
[13:42.870 --> 13:43.410]  We've never had that.
[13:43.470 --> 13:45.390]  It's not something that we're used to.
[13:45.450 --> 13:51.250]  And I think that's probably why they're not going to just introduce that kind of a change where everybody has to select the pin.
[13:51.930 --> 13:57.370]  I think they make decisions based on how many billions of dollars they're going to make one way or the other.
[13:57.590 --> 14:02.990]  I don't think they care about consumers' privacy or protection or convenience.
[14:03.490 --> 14:05.730]  I think they care about how much money they're going to make.
[14:05.870 --> 14:12.450]  So I think they do care to a degree about decreasing fraud because they are liable for the fraud.
[14:12.690 --> 14:17.250]  So they can make more money if they have a system that is harder to have fraud with.
[14:17.430 --> 14:20.670]  But I don't think they're concerned, or at least I'm not concerned.
[14:20.830 --> 14:21.950]  I don't know what they're concerned about.
[14:22.410 --> 14:30.410]  But shortly before I came here, I went to a drugstore chain that I don't want to mention to buy something.
[14:30.690 --> 14:35.350]  And their payment process asked me like 10 questions.
[14:35.350 --> 14:38.270]  And by far the easiest was, what is your pin?
[14:38.510 --> 14:40.490]  So I don't know if it's that hard.
[14:42.210 --> 14:44.810]  It wanted to know if I wanted to be on their mailing list.
[14:44.850 --> 14:45.970]  What's my phone number I pressed?
[14:46.030 --> 14:47.270]  I don't want to tell you my phone number.
[14:47.350 --> 14:49.610]  And the clerk was like, oh, you failed that step.
[14:49.610 --> 14:50.650]  You've got to go through it again.
[14:51.390 --> 14:53.050]  And it just goes on and on.
[14:53.290 --> 14:56.570]  And so entering my pin, you know, that's easy.
[14:58.390 --> 15:07.850]  I think also one of the reasons maybe this system is being chosen, maybe technically because I think the pin system uses some kind of pin generator.
[15:08.390 --> 15:09.050]  I don't know.
[15:09.110 --> 15:11.230]  There's hardware involved with generating the pin.
[15:11.430 --> 15:14.130]  I mean, it's not a pin generator on the card.
[15:14.250 --> 15:15.610]  You'll use the same pin every time.
[15:15.610 --> 15:20.570]  But my understanding, and again, our listeners know more than I do.
[15:20.690 --> 15:38.490]  They'll write in if I'm wrong, is that your credit card number does not get fully transmitted somehow, at least until you've entered your pin, and maybe even never, so that the merchant database can't be, you know, broken into, and then all the credit card numbers extracted,
[15:38.490 --> 15:39.310]  as happens.
[15:39.490 --> 15:42.110]  From like man in the middle, just from everyday transactions.
[15:42.110 --> 15:48.050]  So are there none of these privacy intrusions in Europe?
[15:48.270 --> 15:49.170]  Does it not happen?
[15:50.090 --> 15:51.430]  I don't know enough to say.
[15:51.590 --> 15:53.970]  I mean, this technology is not new.
[15:54.110 --> 15:59.790]  All these Europeans who are listening to us right now are probably laughing at us, saying, like, look at these idiots who don't know anything about this technology.
[15:59.970 --> 16:01.070]  But they generally do that anyway.
[16:01.430 --> 16:03.790]  They'll find anything to do that over...
[16:03.790 --> 16:10.510]  But for us here in this country, this is all new stuff, a whole new frontier, and we're going to learn more about it as time goes on.
[16:10.510 --> 16:20.930]  I wonder if instead of providing whatever the keypad thing that goes with chip and pin is, maybe they're looking at some of the technologies like payment and, like, apps and e-wallets, all this crap.
[16:21.190 --> 16:39.630]  Maybe in lieu of the pin system, they're wanting to incorporate signature with the chip cards and somehow tie that into, like, making the phone generate it instead of having to produce some device that creates a key or something one-time thing to do your transaction.
[16:40.330 --> 16:41.510]  But again, I haven't seen this.
[16:41.590 --> 16:44.630]  I've only seen it, like, over the shoulder, like, in different countries.
[16:44.630 --> 16:50.950]  I've never seen any kind of pin system or anything like that anywhere else but in Europe.
[16:51.610 --> 16:54.410]  Well, if you have a debit card in the United States, it asks for your pin.
[16:54.410 --> 16:54.870]  Oh, yeah, yeah.
[16:55.010 --> 16:56.430]  Well, not but a chip and pin.
[16:57.250 --> 17:02.670]  Well, obviously, exciting times ahead as credit card formats change and we experiment.
[17:02.830 --> 17:09.870]  But I would like to know if people have had the opportunity to go overseas with some of these new cards that are being sent out, do they work?
[17:10.150 --> 17:12.190]  If they don't work, I'd like to know that as well.
[17:12.290 --> 17:17.890]  And if you're traveling in this country from another country, what kinds of challenges or issues you might have?
[17:18.010 --> 17:20.530]  Our email address, OTH at 2600.com.
[17:20.550 --> 17:22.170]  We'd like to hear your experiences.
[17:22.170 --> 17:29.350]  Right now, though, we have on the phone joining us Sherry Huss, one of the main coordinators of the Maker Faire.
[17:29.510 --> 17:34.550]  And the Maker Faire is coming up again this weekend in Queens at the Hall of Science.
[17:35.210 --> 17:35.710]  Sherry, welcome.
[17:36.990 --> 17:37.270]  Thank you.
[17:37.350 --> 17:38.090]  It's great to be back.
[17:38.270 --> 17:42.110]  I can't believe a whole year has gone by since we did this last.
[17:42.910 --> 17:43.850]  It is crazy.
[17:44.050 --> 17:50.570]  And we've actually even had, since we've chatted, we've had, last year we had 100 Maker Faires around the world, and this year we'll have 140.
[17:51.450 --> 17:51.850]  Wow.
[17:51.850 --> 17:51.870]  Wow.
[17:52.030 --> 17:54.690]  Including the White House, if you guys can believe that.
[17:54.870 --> 17:56.050]  Well, Obama's interested in this.
[17:56.190 --> 17:57.330]  He's participating?
[17:57.690 --> 17:58.050]  He was.
[17:58.310 --> 17:58.830]  He was.
[17:58.930 --> 18:17.330]  We actually, in June, and I have to say, Dale and I were actually very pleased, because you know, you're never quite sure what's going to happen when the White House kind of gets involved with the Maker Faire, but it was wonderful, and I have to say, probably one of the only administrations that would probably let a group of makers into the White House.
[18:17.430 --> 18:21.050]  So I think we had about 200 makers, and it was awesome.
[18:21.050 --> 18:22.390]  How did that work exactly?
[18:22.390 --> 18:25.450]  They let a bunch of kids roam through the halls of the White House and build things?
[18:26.270 --> 18:31.310]  Well, they actually, they had about, I think about 40 or 50 Maker exhibits set up.
[18:31.470 --> 18:32.930]  There was kind of a screening process.
[18:33.230 --> 18:37.350]  We actually got Russell the electronic giraffe, which will be at Maker Faire this year.
[18:37.530 --> 18:39.750]  This is the World Maker Faire New York.
[18:39.850 --> 18:49.250]  It is the 17-foot giraffe built by Lindsay Lawler, and it'll be walking around the ground, but we were able to actually get that outside in front of the White House, which was pretty amazing.
[18:49.550 --> 18:58.910]  But they primarily, you know, a little bit of a photo opportunity, but I have to say it was a major tribute to makers, and they did it right, which was really great to see.
[18:59.110 --> 19:03.350]  Yeah, it sounds like the recognition itself was a huge milestone alone.
[19:03.530 --> 19:04.130]  It was huge.
[19:04.270 --> 19:05.750]  Yeah, completely, completely.
[19:06.490 --> 19:10.530]  I imagine, though, they let you have, you know, fewer explosives than you normally have.
[19:10.950 --> 19:13.870]  Well, we actually, we did not have any fire, that's for sure.
[19:14.010 --> 19:16.110]  We did actually have, which was kind of funny.
[19:16.230 --> 19:20.250]  We had the two-bit circus folks out of LA, Eric Radman.
[19:20.370 --> 19:24.910]  We had a few folks with clown noses on, but it was everything from kids.
[19:24.910 --> 19:32.070]  We had Pancake Bot, we had the conductive circuits, and a whole host of stuff.
[19:32.230 --> 19:34.670]  So they did, they did a really nice job, I have to say.
[19:36.010 --> 19:42.590]  Well, we're focusing on what's going to happen this weekend in Queens, and this is, Sherry, how many has it been so far?
[19:43.330 --> 19:50.990]  You know, this has been, this is our fifth year in New York, and I have to say it's one of the, kind of one of the faster-growing fairs, for sure.
[19:51.350 --> 19:53.790]  But what's kind of cool is it's the fifth year for us.
[19:53.790 --> 20:02.250]  It's also the 50th and the 75th anniversary of the New York World's Fair, which, you know, it's totally interesting, isn't it?
[20:02.330 --> 20:11.330]  I mean, and my goal eventually is to kind of start filling out, and in fact, this year we're kind of, we're starting to, like, really push the limits of this part of the property.
[20:11.610 --> 20:17.150]  But the good news is that there's a whole host of property here that we're able to go out there.
[20:17.230 --> 20:20.630]  And I know that Dale's always wanted to figure out a way that we could hack the Unisphere.
[20:20.990 --> 20:22.330]  So maybe that can be a challenge.
[20:22.330 --> 20:24.810]  We can work with the 2600 folks on for next year.
[20:24.810 --> 20:25.230]  How's that?
[20:25.370 --> 20:30.030]  I would love that, because ever since I was a kid, that area has fascinated me.
[20:30.110 --> 20:34.610]  I was actually at one of the World's Fairs, the 1963-64 World's Fair.
[20:34.790 --> 20:37.830]  I was a little kid there, and I remember the video phones.
[20:38.010 --> 20:41.370]  I remember everyone talks about the video phones, where this was this new technology.
[20:42.150 --> 20:45.390]  1963, they were introducing this, and, you know, we still haven't perfected it.
[20:45.970 --> 20:48.730]  I missed the 1939 one, though.
[20:48.930 --> 20:50.410]  I would like to know more about that.
[20:51.390 --> 20:52.070]  There you go.
[20:52.290 --> 20:59.190]  Actually, I think in 1939, the new technology that they introduced was from DuPont was nylons for women.
[20:59.590 --> 21:00.130]  How was that?
[21:00.310 --> 21:00.570]  Interesting.
[21:00.730 --> 21:02.890]  I just saw a little film, actually, about that.
[21:02.890 --> 21:08.350]  It was on Classic Arts Showcase, which is an amazing channel to watch old films about arts and things like that.
[21:08.430 --> 21:12.010]  But they had something focusing on a kid's view of the World's Fair.
[21:12.170 --> 21:13.850]  And, of course, it was the 1939 World's Fair.
[21:13.950 --> 21:15.170]  I didn't recognize any of the structures.
[21:15.450 --> 21:18.890]  I'm not sure if it took place on the same grounds as the later ones.
[21:19.450 --> 21:20.030]  It did.
[21:20.130 --> 21:20.390]  It did.
[21:20.530 --> 21:20.870]  Did it really?
[21:20.970 --> 21:21.150]  Okay.
[21:21.210 --> 21:22.170]  It's actually really beautiful here.
[21:22.190 --> 21:23.650]  I have to say, it's a beautiful part.
[21:23.790 --> 21:32.610]  And for, you know, most folks coming into Manhattan, you always see the Unisphere and kind of the New York Pavilion or the Men in Black Towers, if you like to call them.
[21:32.610 --> 21:39.570]  And I hope that someday they get rebuilt and restored because they are such amazing structures and such history behind them.
[21:40.430 --> 21:40.910]  Wow.
[21:41.410 --> 21:42.250]  It's beautiful.
[21:42.250 --> 21:42.950]  It's beautiful.
[21:43.090 --> 21:47.290]  And I have to say, the energy is pretty great.
[21:47.450 --> 21:52.330]  In fact, we did a two-day... this is day one of a Maker Conference called MakerCon.
[21:52.330 --> 22:06.510]  And in fact, the folks are all scrambling because they're getting to see an advanced version of Print the Legend, which is the documentary that... on kind of the 3D printer world, which I'm sure a lot of your folks have been tracking over the last couple of years.
[22:06.810 --> 22:07.190]  Yeah.
[22:07.330 --> 22:18.050]  In fact, it's interesting to see the evolution of 3D printing throughout the history of Maker Faire in New York because it's kind of been expanding exponentially every year, it seems.
[22:18.050 --> 22:18.450]  It has.
[22:18.850 --> 22:19.410]  It has.
[22:19.610 --> 22:33.690]  And we actually have... there's a group of folks, I mean, probably, you know, again, with a lot of the folks from NYC Resistor, the MakerBot story, 3D systems folks, but then even the Formlabs folks a little bit north of here.
[22:34.610 --> 22:38.470]  It has been... I have to say that actually 3D printing has kind of grown and come alive.
[22:38.470 --> 22:46.690]  And even when you see... when your team... when your group gets to see Print the Legend, which I think Netflix has acquired the rights, and I think September 26th is their date.
[22:47.330 --> 22:48.410]  But you'll see a lot of...
[22:48.410 --> 22:51.090]  Yeah, we tried to show it at Hope, but we couldn't get it from Netflix.
[22:51.410 --> 22:51.790]  Oh, really?
[22:51.970 --> 22:52.170]  Yeah.
[22:52.390 --> 22:52.850]  Oh, shoot.
[22:54.350 --> 23:01.790]  Well, you know, it's always not easy, but I think that probably because the date was a lot closer, maybe that they were able to make it happen.
[23:01.930 --> 23:05.650]  But really, we have 3D printing village here and a whole host of folks.
[23:06.870 --> 23:12.590]  It's a bigger pop-up here than we have in the Bay Area, and there'll be a lot of 3D printing here this weekend as well.
[23:12.830 --> 23:16.970]  In fact, today, Dremel announced at MakerCon that they're coming out with a 3D printer.
[23:17.570 --> 23:18.830]  Wow, Dremel, they're big.
[23:19.690 --> 23:20.430]  Yeah, they are.
[23:20.610 --> 23:24.150]  So, you know, that to me is kind of interesting since that means Dremel actually is great.
[23:24.270 --> 23:26.130]  I don't know how good their printer is.
[23:26.250 --> 23:29.950]  We'll find out, but they certainly have distribution in a pretty major way.
[23:30.350 --> 23:32.270]  And they have a tie-in to the maker community.
[23:32.470 --> 23:37.130]  I mean, any maker worth their salt has had a Dremel tool for a long time.
[23:37.130 --> 23:38.510]  I've had one since I was a kid.
[23:38.510 --> 23:39.910]  They're just useful maker tools.
[23:43.390 --> 23:44.990]  Yeah, me too.
[23:45.210 --> 23:48.070]  I've used a lot of their stuff, but that's really interesting.
[23:48.370 --> 23:59.750]  That's like hearing Black & Decker or GE saying they're going to make this appliance, but to aim it towards like an engineering and prototyping world is really neat.
[24:00.250 --> 24:10.150]  Well, Sherry, let me ask you, apart from the evolution of the 3D printer over these last few years, what have you seen change ever since the first Maker Faire in New York?
[24:10.910 --> 24:15.670]  Yeah, you know, what I have to say I love about New York is that we get probably a lot more families.
[24:16.370 --> 24:20.690]  And I don't know if that's part of Queens, if it's part of just the culture of what's happening here in New York.
[24:20.870 --> 24:23.670]  But, you know, what we're seeing this year...
[24:23.670 --> 24:25.090]  Okay, drones are going to be pretty big.
[24:25.210 --> 24:26.610]  And we've got the Game of Drones.
[24:27.530 --> 24:28.550]  Game of Drones?
[24:29.070 --> 24:29.430]  Wow.
[24:29.650 --> 24:30.750]  The Game of Drones, right.
[24:30.910 --> 24:37.890]  So Mark Kornblatt and Eli from the West Coast are kind of coming and setting up sort of a whole drone area.
[24:38.170 --> 24:41.330]  So drones continue to grow in interest on all levels.
[24:42.230 --> 24:43.850]  Wearables continue to be hot.
[24:44.230 --> 24:44.910]  3D printing.
[24:45.870 --> 24:48.610]  Microelectronics with Arduino and Raspberry Pi.
[24:49.010 --> 24:51.450]  And of course, Mossimo and his folks will be here.
[24:51.530 --> 24:54.390]  And we've got the Raspberry Pi Foundation and org that'll be here.
[24:56.050 --> 25:01.030]  And then just the, you know, I don't know, I have to say New York, there's something really special about the makers here.
[25:01.290 --> 25:06.390]  And we may not have a lot of the fire breathing things than some of the large-scale art that we have on the West Coast.
[25:06.770 --> 25:11.010]  But we, you know, we make up for it in kind of spirit and passion.
[25:11.510 --> 25:13.970]  And I'm pretty excited about that.
[25:14.490 --> 25:15.350]  Diversity, too.
[25:15.510 --> 25:18.610]  The people from all over the place come by.
[25:18.730 --> 25:25.130]  And it's just, it's an amazing spectacle just witnessing the enthusiasm, if nothing else.
[25:25.430 --> 25:30.450]  And I guess if you don't like kids, it's not the place to go because, boy, they're everywhere and they're running the show.
[25:30.610 --> 25:31.150]  They really are.
[25:33.070 --> 25:33.770]  Definitely true.
[25:34.110 --> 25:34.510]  That's true.
[25:34.510 --> 25:34.530]  That's true.
[25:34.730 --> 25:39.190]  Well, Sherry, I imagine you're extremely busy getting this together.
[25:39.370 --> 25:41.410]  Is there anything else that you want to impart to our listeners?
[25:41.550 --> 25:43.850]  Perhaps do you guys need volunteers as well?
[25:44.650 --> 25:49.870]  You know, we would love, we are definitely loving, would love folks in our Learn to Solder area.
[25:50.030 --> 25:52.290]  It continues to be one of the popular areas.
[25:52.550 --> 26:01.690]  So if anyone wants to come on board or figure out how to, you know, work a few hours, we can figure out kind of a package with tickets and whatnot.
[26:02.230 --> 26:15.270]  And if you just email me, Sherry, S-H-E-R-R-Y at makerfair.com, or I'm sorry, at makermedia.com, then what I can do is figure out how to get you connected if that's something you'd like to do.
[26:15.370 --> 26:20.850]  But there's also something that's pretty exciting when a kid or anyone learns how to solder and that little light lights up.
[26:21.030 --> 26:24.270]  It's kind of like, you know, they've clicked something that changes them.
[26:24.370 --> 26:25.950]  And that's a really positive thing.
[26:25.950 --> 26:35.670]  I've seen that light go on several times in all sorts of different places at Maker Faire, including lockpickers are there teaching kids how to...
[26:35.670 --> 26:36.410]  Lockpickers are here again, absolutely.
[26:36.630 --> 26:38.390]  And kids are really good at that for some reason.
[26:38.650 --> 26:41.930]  And you see five, six-year-olds learning how to lockpick.
[26:42.050 --> 26:43.190]  You might ask, well, why?
[26:43.290 --> 26:44.930]  Why would you want to teach kids that?
[26:46.050 --> 26:51.810]  It's basically thinking on how to design security, how to get around restrictions.
[26:51.890 --> 26:53.090]  It's a healthy thing.
[26:53.090 --> 26:55.170]  And the enthusiasm is contagious.
[26:55.530 --> 26:56.190]  That's so good.
[26:56.310 --> 27:04.730]  Like problem solving and puzzles, that kind of inquisitive nature is really challenged at these kinds of events with the different disciplines.
[27:05.490 --> 27:11.370]  And like I said last week, I've been there, I think maybe four of the five years, maybe all five, I'm not sure.
[27:11.810 --> 27:14.030]  And in all that time, I've only seen one kid crying.
[27:14.030 --> 27:15.430]  And I think he wasn't even part of it.
[27:16.190 --> 27:16.590]  Yeah.
[27:17.030 --> 27:17.950]  He was just passing through.
[27:18.390 --> 27:19.570]  Maybe he wanted to stay.
[27:19.970 --> 27:20.550]  That's why.
[27:20.750 --> 27:22.050]  Bernie, did you have any questions?
[27:22.170 --> 27:25.170]  Because we're going to let Sherry go and we're going to do the ticket giveaway soon.
[27:26.190 --> 27:28.930]  No, I think the weather forecast is good this weekend, Sherry.
[27:29.210 --> 27:30.210]  Yeah, it's great.
[27:30.210 --> 27:31.150]  It's actually great.
[27:31.390 --> 27:33.070]  I'm looking forward to a couple other...
[27:33.070 --> 27:34.990]  Let me just play a couple other for those just quick.
[27:35.610 --> 27:37.370]  We'll have Gail Lavin, who's here.
[27:37.490 --> 27:41.930]  He's the humanoid robot guy from InMove, I-N-M-O-O-V.
[27:42.430 --> 27:45.290]  And there's usually several of the humanoid robots that show up.
[27:45.370 --> 27:47.350]  But he's coming from France, and that's pretty amazing.
[27:47.730 --> 27:48.410]  A French robot.
[27:48.410 --> 27:49.090]  You have the Power Racing Series.
[27:49.730 --> 27:50.910]  Yeah, the humanoid stuff.
[27:51.090 --> 27:51.610]  Check it out.
[27:51.730 --> 28:01.930]  Because, you know, it's like I've seen these all over the world, and he's really great about open source, his patterns and whatnot, and really teaching people how to get into building them.
[28:02.230 --> 28:05.050]  We have the Power Racing Series, which is just good fun.
[28:05.190 --> 28:09.670]  That came out of Pumping Station One folks in Chicago, and that continues to grow.
[28:09.990 --> 28:15.610]  We actually have Dean Kamen from First Robotics, who also did the... The Segway.
[28:15.790 --> 28:16.130]  The Segways.
[28:16.770 --> 28:17.570]  Yeah, and you know what?
[28:17.570 --> 28:20.470]  He grew up in Queens, so I've been trying to get him all these years.
[28:20.670 --> 28:26.850]  And finally, he's kind of agreed to come, and I think he'll be pretty inspirational to Kibb and a whole host more stuff.
[28:27.030 --> 28:27.990]  Will there be Segways there?
[28:28.250 --> 28:30.150]  I mean, the inventor is there, so why not?
[28:30.430 --> 28:42.210]  You know, I don't... You know, actually, the last Segway that I've seen... I mean, we've had a couple of makers kind of build their Segways, and then I think the first Maker Faire in the Bay Area, we had Wozniak with his Segway, you know, Polo Club there.
[28:43.390 --> 28:44.590]  It would be cool if he brought one.
[28:44.710 --> 28:50.250]  I'm not sure, because I think he's coming in Uber, but... I've never ridden a Segway on a field before.
[28:50.330 --> 28:50.870]  That could be fun.
[28:51.750 --> 28:56.650]  Is there a Segway built for two that he could... that Uber can take you around on a Segway?
[28:56.750 --> 28:57.030]  That'd be cool.
[28:57.050 --> 28:57.430]  I don't know.
[28:57.550 --> 28:58.450]  That would be great, wouldn't it?
[28:58.570 --> 29:01.630]  Bernie, if you come up, you can ask him these questions, because I'm sure...
[29:01.630 --> 29:01.650]  Yeah.
[29:01.650 --> 29:02.550]  I'd like to meet Dean Kamen.
[29:03.390 --> 29:05.910]  Just before you go... Yeah, he's speaking, I think, 11.30 on Saturday.
[29:06.170 --> 29:11.370]  Before you go, Sherry, most of our listeners, I think, already know, but we sort of skipped the basic questions.
[29:11.550 --> 29:12.370]  What is Maker Faire?
[29:12.470 --> 29:12.990]  When is it?
[29:13.070 --> 29:13.210]  Where?
[29:13.570 --> 29:15.970]  Yeah, I guess we didn't really say exactly when.
[29:16.050 --> 29:16.830]  Okay, good point.
[29:17.710 --> 29:25.050]  Yeah, well, Maker Faire is the greatest show and tell on earth, and it's makers that are here showing what they do and getting people excited about it.
[29:25.150 --> 29:27.190]  I call it kind of a newfangled county fair.
[29:27.570 --> 29:31.850]  It's this weekend, which is September 20th and 21st at the New York Hall of Science.
[29:32.350 --> 29:42.190]  It's easy to get here on the 7 train, although do check our website, because there's some train stuff going on, as well as we've got parking at City Field and shuttles over.
[29:42.710 --> 29:48.530]  Maker Faire and Maker Faire with an E dot com has all the information, and I believe we're doing some ticket giveaways, too.
[29:49.250 --> 29:49.830]  That's right, yes.
[29:50.610 --> 29:50.990]  Yeah.
[29:51.930 --> 29:53.510]  All right, sounds awesome.
[29:53.730 --> 29:56.810]  And the 2600 van will be there if we get started.
[29:56.810 --> 29:58.290]  That is, and it makes the trip.
[29:58.990 --> 30:05.030]  So that will be something that I guess we'll be looking forward to as well.
[30:05.190 --> 30:05.810]  I look forward to it.
[30:05.870 --> 30:06.170]  Absolutely.
[30:06.370 --> 30:07.090]  We're glad to have you back.
[30:07.330 --> 30:07.990]  Thanks, thanks.
[30:08.190 --> 30:08.910]  And we'll see you there.
[30:09.570 --> 30:13.610]  And we will give away tickets now to worthy BAI listeners.
[30:14.210 --> 30:16.310]  And best of luck with everything.
[30:17.210 --> 30:17.650]  Thanks, Sherry.
[30:17.730 --> 30:18.030]  Thank you so much.
[30:18.190 --> 30:19.570]  And thanks to the 2600 audience.
[30:19.730 --> 30:20.050]  We love you.
[30:20.350 --> 30:20.790]  All right.
[30:21.290 --> 30:21.670]  Take care.
[30:21.850 --> 30:21.970]  Bye-bye.
[30:22.050 --> 30:22.250]  That's Sherry.
[30:22.330 --> 30:30.790]  Sherry House, one of the main coordinators of Maker Faire, which takes place this year, same time as every year, late September.
[30:31.570 --> 30:32.470]  Looking forward to it.
[30:32.470 --> 30:32.470]  All right.
[30:33.130 --> 30:33.550]  Me too.
[30:33.750 --> 30:35.370]  Bernie, are you actually going to make the trip up?
[30:35.710 --> 30:36.510]  I hope to.
[30:36.690 --> 30:39.950]  I'm trying to arrange things so I can come up there from Pennsylvania.
[30:40.230 --> 30:41.930]  And it's a blast.
[30:42.110 --> 30:42.810]  It really is fun.
[30:42.910 --> 30:52.190]  And it's going to be such a relief to walk through a big conference with a bunch of hackers and makers without having to have any responsibilities for making the conference happen.
[30:53.310 --> 30:56.110]  Now we're finally recovering from hope, mostly, I think.
[30:56.450 --> 30:57.450]  Speak for yourself.
[30:57.610 --> 30:58.490]  You mean shell-shocked.
[30:58.650 --> 30:59.310]  You know what?
[30:59.310 --> 31:01.410]  We just had to recover something from AT&T this week.
[31:01.550 --> 31:02.430]  There's still...
[31:02.430 --> 31:04.710]  Vestiges of hope ringing in our ears.
[31:04.730 --> 31:04.790]  Well, no.
[31:04.890 --> 31:05.710]  They were being sentimental.
[31:05.870 --> 31:09.050]  They wanted to keep billing us because they didn't believe that hope was actually over.
[31:09.190 --> 31:10.270]  They wanted to keep billing us forever.
[31:10.510 --> 31:12.710]  And we said, you know what, AT&T, you've got to let go.
[31:12.830 --> 31:13.670]  And they did.
[31:13.970 --> 31:21.290]  So this will be fun being at a hope-like conference in some ways where we can just enjoy it.
[31:22.090 --> 31:22.490]  Absolutely.
[31:22.690 --> 31:22.930]  Absolutely.
[31:23.290 --> 31:31.990]  Now, speaking of enjoying it, we're going to give the opportunity to two of our lucky listeners to get day passes for themselves and a friend.
[31:32.610 --> 31:35.090]  But we're going to do this in an unusual way for us.
[31:35.150 --> 31:37.950]  We don't usually do contests this way.
[31:38.050 --> 31:39.210]  We don't usually do contests, period.
[31:39.410 --> 31:48.110]  But since we're only giving away two, we're somewhat manageable, I think we should have a little bit of a contest, an on-air content.
[31:48.170 --> 31:54.930]  Now, we can't ask any trivia questions because in this day and age, there's no such thing as trivia when you have access to a smartphone or a computer.
[31:55.150 --> 31:56.810]  You can't ask anything anymore.
[31:56.950 --> 31:58.130]  Everybody always knows the answer.
[31:58.850 --> 32:02.330]  What we are going to ask, though, is for people to call us.
[32:02.530 --> 32:05.090]  And don't call right away until you hear what I have to say.
[32:05.210 --> 32:06.010]  People are already calling.
[32:06.130 --> 32:06.470]  No, no, no.
[32:06.930 --> 32:08.310]  The first thing you got to do is listen.
[32:08.510 --> 32:09.410]  Listen carefully.
[32:10.850 --> 32:16.310]  When you call us, we're going to ask you to tell us, in your words, what is a hacker?
[32:16.930 --> 32:25.270]  And if we like what you say, and we all have to like what you say for the most part, or we can even disagree with what you say, but still like what you say.
[32:25.850 --> 32:30.190]  And if the four of us give it a thumbs up, then you're one of our lucky winners.
[32:31.710 --> 32:36.190]  And it's okay to tell us something that we don't like, but you won't win the tickets.
[32:37.410 --> 32:39.030]  We have to have some kind of criteria.
[32:39.190 --> 32:42.290]  It's got to be a subjective criteria this time.
[32:42.450 --> 32:46.310]  When you say we have to like it, do we have to agree, or do we just have to think it's insightful?
[32:46.610 --> 32:47.670]  I just said we can't even disagree.
[32:48.510 --> 32:50.010]  So we're looking for insight.
[32:50.510 --> 32:50.870]  Insight.
[32:51.050 --> 32:53.510]  Insightful, thoughtful perspectives and things like that.
[32:54.370 --> 32:58.210]  If you just call in and say hackers are KRAD cool and all that, yeah, you know what?
[32:58.210 --> 33:01.590]  We're going to agree with that, but we're not going to give you the tickets.
[33:02.050 --> 33:03.330]  We'll know it when we hear it.
[33:03.690 --> 33:04.750]  We'll definitely know it.
[33:04.770 --> 33:05.470]  It's like pornography.
[33:05.690 --> 33:06.550]  We'll know it when we see it.
[33:06.990 --> 33:07.310]  That's right.
[33:07.310 --> 33:08.190]  Great analogy, Bernie.
[33:08.210 --> 33:09.030]  Thank you for that.
[33:09.410 --> 33:11.650]  212-209-2900.
[33:12.110 --> 33:15.410]  And we're going to pick a line at random to make it even more random-ish.
[33:15.630 --> 33:19.450]  See, I think if Bernie called and offered that as his answer, I would say no.
[33:19.690 --> 33:19.950]  Good.
[33:19.950 --> 33:20.630]  That was a good test.
[33:20.650 --> 33:21.630]  And I would say no, too.
[33:21.910 --> 33:22.910]  I would deserve that no.
[33:23.090 --> 33:27.030]  And you'd probably also say no, Bernie, because, yeah, you would agree with that.
[33:27.750 --> 33:33.150]  And again, you know, if you don't win the tickets, don't feel bad because they're not expensive.
[33:33.150 --> 33:37.670]  Go to MakerFair.com and just show up, I'm sure.
[33:37.810 --> 33:40.190]  And as Sherry was saying, they need volunteers as well.
[33:40.270 --> 33:43.330]  It's another way to become involved with the whole process.
[33:43.950 --> 33:44.850]  Hey, what's the website?
[33:44.990 --> 33:45.610]  Did we give the website?
[33:45.610 --> 33:47.330]  Yes, MakerFair.com.
[33:47.630 --> 33:48.950]  And fair has an E at the end.
[33:50.550 --> 33:51.870]  212-209-2900.
[33:51.970 --> 33:58.310]  What's going to happen, if we all give the thumbs up to your definition of a hacker, we're going to put you on hold.
[33:58.330 --> 34:01.530]  And then I think Kyle is going to pick up the phone and get your email address.
[34:02.290 --> 34:14.970]  And if you don't have an email address for some reason, a phone number, and then what we're going to do is get back to you later on with a code, a special code that will unlock a couple of tickets somehow.
[34:15.810 --> 34:16.350]  Um, yeah.
[34:16.570 --> 34:17.150]  Oh, look at those phones.
[34:17.270 --> 34:17.870]  They're all lit up.
[34:17.970 --> 34:20.950]  Oh, so a lot of people, um, a lot of people seem to have an idea what a hacker is.
[34:21.430 --> 34:21.610]  Okay.
[34:21.610 --> 34:24.470]  Who wants to pick a number from one to one to 10?
[34:26.190 --> 34:26.510]  Anyone?
[34:26.510 --> 34:27.250]  8.
[34:27.450 --> 34:27.750]  8.
[34:27.910 --> 34:28.150]  Okay.
[34:28.330 --> 34:28.910]  8 it is.
[34:29.910 --> 34:30.790]  And good evening.
[34:30.790 --> 34:31.930]  You're on off the hook.
[34:33.810 --> 34:34.590]  Speak up, please.
[34:35.650 --> 34:36.350]  Oh, you know what?
[34:36.430 --> 34:37.750]  It's, uh, it's the phone.
[34:37.910 --> 34:38.990]  Here's another bit of randomness.
[34:39.130 --> 34:40.490]  The phone doesn't always work.
[34:40.750 --> 34:47.470]  So if the line doesn't turn red, yeah, then, um, someone told me it was the receiver last time, but I don't think it is.
[34:47.810 --> 34:48.750]  Don't think it is.
[34:48.890 --> 34:49.150]  Two.
[34:49.610 --> 34:50.010]  Two?
[34:50.270 --> 34:50.530]  All right.
[34:50.850 --> 34:51.770]  Another criteria though.
[34:51.930 --> 34:53.210]  Uh, we can't know you.
[34:53.550 --> 34:55.430]  If we recognize you, you're disqualified.
[34:55.810 --> 34:56.150]  All right?
[34:56.910 --> 34:58.370]  Because we don't want to play favorites.
[34:58.550 --> 35:01.090]  You just made it easier for them to fake who they are.
[35:01.350 --> 35:02.870]  Now they know we're listening for that.
[35:03.730 --> 35:05.030]  If you're clever, it's okay.
[35:05.190 --> 35:05.490]  Okay.
[35:05.490 --> 35:06.150]  We have a caller.
[35:06.250 --> 35:06.570]  Good evening.
[35:06.690 --> 35:07.270]  You're on off the hook.
[35:07.590 --> 35:07.930]  Hi.
[35:08.130 --> 35:08.370]  Hi.
[35:08.750 --> 35:10.610]  So this is a definition of a hacker?
[35:10.810 --> 35:13.210]  I don't know who this person is, so they're not, they're not disqualified.
[35:13.490 --> 35:13.850]  Now, okay.
[35:14.050 --> 35:16.010]  So do I qualify now if I tell you my first name?
[35:16.390 --> 35:18.010]  Uh, well, don't tell us anything yet.
[35:18.130 --> 35:19.290]  Nobody knows who this is, right?
[35:19.410 --> 35:19.590]  Okay.
[35:19.830 --> 35:20.010]  All right.
[35:20.250 --> 35:24.270]  So... You don't have to tell us your first name, but you won't be instantly disqualified.
[35:25.110 --> 35:26.510]  Unless... I already did, so now what happens?
[35:26.510 --> 35:26.990]  Well, now it's okay.
[35:27.290 --> 35:29.370]  Uh, do you have an idea of what a hacker is?
[35:29.870 --> 35:30.630]  I would, yes.
[35:32.010 --> 35:34.970]  I have a definition that I would, I would, I would, I would give to it.
[35:35.890 --> 35:36.410]  Go on.
[35:37.090 --> 35:50.370]  I would say a hacker is someone who solves a problem in a non-defined way or non-reveal, you know, who's a problem solver in a non-defined way.
[35:52.270 --> 35:53.730]  Could, could you be a little more specific?
[35:54.730 --> 35:56.810]  I don't know how, how it could be more specific than that.
[35:56.870 --> 35:58.850]  I just gave you, I just gave you a good definition.
[35:59.390 --> 36:03.850]  You solve problems that are not, that are not really accessible or not really defined.
[36:04.010 --> 36:05.030]  They're not like in a manual.
[36:05.510 --> 36:08.830]  Kind of, uh, unconventional, eclectic.
[36:08.850 --> 36:10.110]  Unconventional, yeah, but he solves the problem.
[36:11.090 --> 36:11.650]  Not prescribed.
[36:12.850 --> 36:15.770]  Okay, I'll accept, okay, let's... You like that one, Kyle?
[36:15.890 --> 36:16.410]  What do you think, Mike?
[36:16.510 --> 36:19.330]  Yeah, I think with the clarification, I'm ready to give it a thumbs up.
[36:19.450 --> 36:19.710]  Bernie?
[36:20.170 --> 36:22.130]  He said the solution is not in a manual.
[36:22.850 --> 36:23.710]  Okay, yeah, I got that.
[36:23.770 --> 36:30.790]  That was kind of funny, but, uh, what do you think of the... That's to give you a concrete example of the quality.
[36:30.930 --> 36:31.730]  It could be, it could be anything.
[36:31.810 --> 36:33.730]  Yeah, I don't think he's trying to curry favor with that remark.
[36:33.730 --> 36:36.690]  I think it's, yeah, it's a genuine, uh, sentiment.
[36:36.950 --> 36:37.850]  But, Bernie, what do you, what do you think?
[36:37.950 --> 36:38.350]  Thumbs up?
[36:38.530 --> 36:41.570]  I, uh, I'm, I'm hovering horizontally here.
[36:42.090 --> 36:47.970]  Um, I would like to hear more, like, more specific about, hackers don't just solve problems, do they?
[36:48.450 --> 36:50.450]  They are, sometimes they do.
[36:50.550 --> 36:51.350]  What were we talking about?
[36:51.450 --> 36:52.450]  I would hope they don't cause problems.
[36:52.750 --> 36:53.910]  Oh, of course they do.
[36:54.130 --> 36:56.210]  Anybody who's an individual causes problems.
[36:56.450 --> 37:00.730]  What I'm saying, what were we talking about earlier on the show today that, that hackers do?
[37:01.210 --> 37:02.050]  I wasn't listening.
[37:02.350 --> 37:02.950]  Yes, you were.
[37:02.990 --> 37:03.470]  You were talking.
[37:03.470 --> 37:03.870]  Was I?
[37:03.990 --> 37:05.350]  Well, I definitely wasn't listening then.
[37:05.490 --> 37:06.450]  The what fair, was it?
[37:07.170 --> 37:07.630]  The what?
[37:08.150 --> 37:08.870]  The fair.
[37:08.970 --> 37:09.930]  We were talking about a fair.
[37:09.990 --> 37:10.150]  They make stuff.
[37:10.370 --> 37:11.090]  They build stuff.
[37:11.230 --> 37:11.730]  They make stuff.
[37:11.770 --> 37:11.870]  Okay.
[37:11.930 --> 37:13.610]  The one we're giving away tickets to right now.
[37:13.690 --> 37:13.870]  Okay.
[37:13.970 --> 37:14.390]  Yeah, that fair.
[37:14.470 --> 37:14.610]  Okay.
[37:14.710 --> 37:14.990]  Okay.
[37:15.210 --> 37:16.430]  So, do hackers do that?
[37:16.590 --> 37:16.870]  You're right.
[37:17.050 --> 37:21.290]  So, I think what you're saying is, Bernie, the... So, what do hackers do?
[37:21.410 --> 37:28.830]  So, let's take someone who's using, say, an Arduino or something, or, you know, he's taking something to solve a problem that's not really available.
[37:29.530 --> 37:31.110]  Something that's not predefined.
[37:32.090 --> 37:34.050]  But sometimes it's not just solving a problem.
[37:34.210 --> 37:38.450]  It's actually coming up with an idea to create something that's cool that does something.
[37:38.550 --> 37:39.830]  It doesn't have to solve a problem.
[37:39.970 --> 37:41.310]  Well, I mean, I'm taking... So, there's a problem.
[37:41.450 --> 37:42.210]  So, there's a problem.
[37:42.530 --> 37:44.410]  So, there's a problem is a lack of something cool that's not there.
[37:44.670 --> 37:45.110]  Okay.
[37:45.250 --> 37:47.570]  We're making this poor guy defend the thesis here.
[37:47.730 --> 37:48.210]  Wow.
[37:48.730 --> 37:49.950]  That's being positive.
[37:50.450 --> 37:50.730]  Uh-huh.
[37:51.330 --> 37:51.650]  Okay.
[37:51.890 --> 37:53.870]  The problem is something that's lacking.
[37:54.170 --> 37:55.290]  Let me, let me ask you this.
[37:55.310 --> 37:55.610]  Solving that.
[37:56.010 --> 37:58.190]  Does a hacker break the rules?
[37:58.750 --> 38:00.510]  Does a hacker break the rule?
[38:02.330 --> 38:04.450]  I mean, what's different?
[38:04.750 --> 38:06.490]  You say, break the rule, break the law.
[38:07.070 --> 38:08.750]  Well, I didn't differentiate.
[38:10.730 --> 38:13.530]  Well, in my definition, a hacker does not break laws.
[38:13.850 --> 38:14.330]  Okay.
[38:14.430 --> 38:15.290]  But do they break rules?
[38:16.670 --> 38:29.470]  A rule is meaning if a convention goes one way and that's considered a rule, and he solves a problem that's unconventional, then... So, you're saying a rule is... If you're saying a rule is convention, and yeah, so he can break rules.
[38:30.350 --> 38:30.710]  Okay.
[38:30.890 --> 38:31.090]  All right.
[38:31.250 --> 38:31.990]  I'll accept that.
[38:32.210 --> 38:32.710]  I was... Okay.
[38:33.470 --> 38:34.250]  What do you guys think?
[38:35.270 --> 38:36.410]  I'm... I'm... I give a thumbs up.
[38:36.590 --> 38:37.630]  Yeah, my thumb is up now.
[38:37.790 --> 38:38.050]  All right.
[38:38.110 --> 38:39.710]  Your thumb is firmly up.
[38:40.090 --> 38:40.890]  Uh, Mike?
[38:41.090 --> 38:46.390]  I was ready to give a thumbs up, you know, only a minute into this, uh... Yeah, but you change your mind every 10 seconds.
[38:46.510 --> 38:46.970]  We all know this.
[38:46.970 --> 38:48.510]  No, this... I'm... I'm settled on this.
[38:48.610 --> 38:48.750]  All right.
[38:48.870 --> 38:49.430]  So, uh...
[38:49.430 --> 38:51.350]  We have three thumbs up so far.
[38:51.450 --> 38:52.570]  The only holdout right now is Kyle.
[38:54.290 --> 38:54.990]  No pressure.
[38:57.670 --> 38:58.550]  What do you say, Kyle?
[38:58.690 --> 38:59.750]  Uh, that's not my thumb.
[38:59.950 --> 39:00.690]  Oh, no, it's not.
[39:00.690 --> 39:02.250]  I was... I was gonna ask you about that.
[39:02.270 --> 39:02.270]  Oh!
[39:03.030 --> 39:03.890]  So, thumbs up?
[39:05.550 --> 39:08.610]  I... Honestly, I wanna... I wanna hear from some other callers.
[39:08.690 --> 39:11.890]  I really appreciate the caller for their insight and stuff.
[39:12.030 --> 39:12.830]  Oh, you haven't been on the phone for 10 minutes now.
[39:12.910 --> 39:13.730]  You're not gonna say yes?
[39:13.830 --> 39:13.870]  No.
[39:13.870 --> 39:14.290]  Come on.
[39:14.950 --> 39:15.630]  Wait a minute.
[39:15.750 --> 39:15.890]  Wait.
[39:16.030 --> 39:16.350]  Whoa.
[39:16.650 --> 39:16.810]  Whoa.
[39:16.810 --> 39:17.190]  Come on.
[39:17.370 --> 39:17.950]  This is...
[39:17.950 --> 39:19.090]  Oh, he's shaming us.
[39:19.450 --> 39:20.150]  Yeah, uh...
[39:20.150 --> 39:21.350]  You're lobbying me.
[39:21.750 --> 39:21.970]  Yeah.
[39:23.230 --> 39:28.310]  Um, but, you know, in fairness, that's not fair to say, just because he's the first caller.
[39:28.890 --> 39:30.550]  You know, if he gave a good answer...
[39:30.550 --> 39:30.910]  I was in my car.
[39:30.990 --> 39:31.690]  I came in my house.
[39:31.830 --> 39:32.270]  I didn't know.
[39:32.270 --> 39:32.730]  Here we go.
[39:32.790 --> 39:33.090]  Here we go.
[39:33.170 --> 39:33.350]  All right.
[39:33.450 --> 39:51.310]  I'm gonna go thumbs up because you... you, uh, kept it from being limited by arguing that making could be a form of problem solving, even if the problem is you're not having enough fun and you need to make something to have more fun, that's a problem in and of itself.
[39:51.410 --> 39:52.310]  And I like that.
[39:52.330 --> 39:53.130]  That's a good defense.
[39:53.290 --> 39:54.430]  So I'm gonna say thumbs up on this.
[39:54.430 --> 39:56.430]  I love that we're making the guy defend it himself.
[39:57.210 --> 40:01.370]  It's just like, you know, when someone gives a thesis and they're interrogated, I could do this.
[40:01.930 --> 40:02.490]  Uh, okay.
[40:02.570 --> 40:03.510]  So what's gonna happen now?
[40:03.710 --> 40:04.810]  We're gonna put you on hold.
[40:04.970 --> 40:05.350]  All right?
[40:06.290 --> 40:06.650]  Okay.
[40:06.930 --> 40:08.510]  And Kyle's gonna pick up the phone.
[40:08.610 --> 40:09.810]  He's gonna get... do you have an email address?
[40:10.130 --> 40:10.430]  Yeah.
[40:10.670 --> 40:11.950]  He's gonna get your email address.
[40:12.170 --> 40:16.650]  And then later on, we're gonna email you a special code with instructions on how to unlock... you are local, right?
[40:16.690 --> 40:18.050]  Or you're gonna be there this weekend.
[40:18.150 --> 40:19.710]  Yeah, I actually was planning on going.
[40:19.870 --> 40:20.110]  Okay.
[40:20.210 --> 40:24.130]  So, uh, this is good for two people on either Saturday or Sunday.
[40:24.370 --> 40:24.930]  Okay, great.
[40:24.930 --> 40:25.330]  All right?
[40:25.510 --> 40:34.330]  So right now, I'm gonna put you on... and if God forbid, uh, we get disconnected, email us, OTH at 2600.com with the information, and we will contact you that way.
[40:34.510 --> 40:35.030]  Okay, great.
[40:35.190 --> 40:35.450]  All right.
[40:35.650 --> 40:40.130]  Let me try and put him on hold without... Okay.
[40:40.510 --> 40:45.910]  Uh, I put... Yeah, it worked that both Bernie and him are on hold right now, so... Well, we already have Bernie's email address.
[40:46.170 --> 40:46.930]  I'm gonna get Bernie back.
[40:47.250 --> 40:49.590]  Uh, and what I think we can do now... Bernie, are you there?
[40:49.710 --> 40:50.270]  I'm still here.
[40:50.350 --> 40:50.530]  All right.
[40:50.790 --> 40:56.690]  I'm gonna use this phone instrument now and pick it up and press the button, and I think Kyle will be able to talk to the person.
[40:56.830 --> 40:57.610]  See, are they there, Kyle?
[40:57.770 --> 40:58.010]  Mm-hmm.
[40:58.690 --> 40:59.010]  Okay.
[40:59.370 --> 40:59.530]  Yeah.
[40:59.650 --> 41:00.850]  All right, so everything is working.
[41:01.050 --> 41:05.230]  So now what we have to do is kill time because we can't use the phone while Kyle's taking this information.
[41:05.910 --> 41:07.650]  Um, so yeah, I think that worked pretty well.
[41:07.730 --> 41:09.970]  We have one more, one more pair of tickets to give away.
[41:10.090 --> 41:12.190]  Are we gonna interrogate this next person, too?
[41:12.270 --> 41:13.450]  Thank God we don't have 10 tickets to give away.
[41:13.790 --> 41:16.210]  Uh, yeah, of course we're gonna... everybody gets the same treatment.
[41:16.410 --> 41:16.450]  All right.
[41:16.450 --> 41:18.730]  So you see how hard we come down on people.
[41:19.030 --> 41:23.790]  If you don't have what it takes to get through the process, hang up the phone now.
[41:23.990 --> 41:30.690]  Otherwise, if you have a good definition of what a hacker is and feel, you can defend it to us, 212-209-2900.
[41:30.770 --> 41:33.710]  But please, only do this if you can attend the Maker Faire.
[41:33.770 --> 41:44.110]  If you're calling from Alaska, something that... well, you can always talk to us about what hackers are all about, but... Yeah, I mean, you can call to talk about something else, I guess, but... No, no, don't do that because we want to give away these tickets.
[41:44.350 --> 41:53.150]  Oh, yeah, we only have 18 minutes left, and at the time it took for that one, you know, we can't go... if we have... if we have a rejection after 10 minutes, then we'd really be in trouble.
[41:53.250 --> 41:54.410]  That was very efficient, you guys' information.
[41:54.610 --> 41:55.010]  Yeah, I'm ready.
[41:55.170 --> 41:55.330]  Okay.
[41:55.470 --> 41:55.670]  Okay.
[41:56.070 --> 41:58.990]  So, uh, someone has to pick... uh, Bernie, why don't you pick a number now?
[41:59.150 --> 42:01.830]  A number between one and, uh, oh, let's make it 11 now.
[42:02.230 --> 42:02.590]  Seven.
[42:03.190 --> 42:03.550]  Seven.
[42:03.950 --> 42:04.310]  Okay.
[42:04.910 --> 42:05.770]  Here we go.
[42:06.890 --> 42:07.790]  And good evening.
[42:07.890 --> 42:09.010]  You're on off the hook.
[42:10.270 --> 42:10.630]  Oh.
[42:10.630 --> 42:14.010]  Is this, uh... I don't think we can give away a ticket to a dial tone.
[42:14.010 --> 42:18.150]  You have to speak in, in, in English and, uh, human.
[42:18.670 --> 42:20.150]  That's, that's all we require.
[42:20.370 --> 42:21.650]  Uh, Bernie, seven was not a good number.
[42:21.750 --> 42:22.330]  You pick a different number.
[42:22.330 --> 42:23.870]  It was that French android that was speaking.
[42:23.950 --> 42:24.870]  How about number six?
[42:25.290 --> 42:26.170]  Uh, okay.
[42:26.230 --> 42:26.950]  Let's try number six.
[42:27.090 --> 42:28.210]  Yeah, you're on number six.
[42:28.370 --> 42:28.910]  You knew that.
[42:29.050 --> 42:29.730]  I didn't know that.
[42:29.830 --> 42:30.510]  Number five.
[42:30.750 --> 42:30.950]  Wow.
[42:31.090 --> 42:31.490]  See a pattern here?
[42:32.310 --> 42:32.990]  Good evening.
[42:33.310 --> 42:34.250]  You're on off the hook.
[42:35.710 --> 42:36.530]  Speak up, please.
[42:37.150 --> 42:37.830]  Hello, I'm on.
[42:38.010 --> 42:38.370]  Hi.
[42:38.570 --> 42:38.790]  Okay.
[42:38.930 --> 42:41.190]  Are you calling to give us a definition of what a hacker is?
[42:41.630 --> 42:42.550]  Yes, I am.
[42:42.710 --> 42:43.370]  All right, let's hear it.
[42:44.230 --> 42:52.190]  Hackers are those of us that have a burning passion to figure out how the world works and what else we can do with it.
[42:53.430 --> 42:53.830]  Hmm.
[42:54.090 --> 42:54.670]  I like that.
[42:54.830 --> 42:55.770]  I like it too.
[42:55.930 --> 42:56.710]  I like the us.
[42:57.150 --> 42:58.450]  I like the inclusiveness.
[42:59.250 --> 43:02.330]  And you seem to be speaking with some passion behind this.
[43:02.470 --> 43:04.670]  Do you have experience in, in, in this world?
[43:04.930 --> 43:05.710]  This is what I do for a living.
[43:05.710 --> 43:10.250]  I work for a Fortune 500 company and they just, I got a really cool job.
[43:10.430 --> 43:12.570]  They just go, we got a problem, invent something.
[43:12.870 --> 43:16.310]  This is what we got to figure out how we can make this do this.
[43:17.010 --> 43:17.250]  Okay.
[43:17.490 --> 43:17.830]  All right.
[43:17.990 --> 43:18.790]  That's really cool.
[43:18.910 --> 43:32.130]  And that also, uh, speaks to sort of the maker, uh, constitution of just, uh, prototyping, prototyping, prototyping, just trying things and having contraptions and, and, uh, learning from your mistakes and revisions.
[43:32.390 --> 43:33.130]  And that, that's cool.
[43:33.210 --> 43:34.510]  That's a very positive spirit.
[43:34.510 --> 43:37.290]  Do you think hackers are treated fairly in the media?
[43:38.270 --> 43:40.070]  Oh, no, no, not at all.
[43:40.690 --> 43:55.070]  You know, you know, the, even the word hacker is really misconstrued, you know, um, uh, I kind of like the whole idea of, um, almost revisiting it with the new word, uh, like maker, you know, just because it takes away that negative connotation.
[43:55.070 --> 44:07.870]  And, and there's so many subdivisions of, of the word hacker and different types of hacking that, um, you know, that is really descriptive, but only really recognized within the community.
[44:08.470 --> 44:09.850]  And whose fault is that?
[44:10.870 --> 44:12.790]  Oh, it's a little bit of all of ours, you know.
[44:13.170 --> 44:14.610]  Yeah, he was looking at me when he said that.
[44:14.790 --> 44:16.110]  No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[44:16.110 --> 44:16.450]  All right.
[44:16.770 --> 44:17.970]  Well, but here's the thing.
[44:17.970 --> 44:24.910]  I have a problem with that because I don't think we should give up the name because some screwballs can't get it right.
[44:24.910 --> 44:27.310]  They don't understand what hacking is all about.
[44:27.590 --> 44:33.450]  And to say, I mean, there have been people in the past that have said, why don't we call malicious hackers, crackers, and that'll solve everything.
[44:33.590 --> 44:35.910]  And of course, it doesn't just makes another label that nobody understands.
[44:36.290 --> 44:46.190]  And for us to simply change over to maker from hacker, I, I think that kind of loses what, what the whole hacker culture has been all about for, for these many decades.
[44:46.450 --> 44:50.850]  So, Manuel, just so I understand, do you think that the color is, uh, not insightful or do you just disagree?
[44:51.510 --> 44:52.350]  You know, good question.
[44:52.630 --> 44:54.010]  I think that's an insightful question.
[44:54.010 --> 44:55.170]  What you just asked, it's too bad.
[44:55.250 --> 44:56.190]  You're not trying to get the tickets.
[44:56.450 --> 44:57.490]  Um, but yeah.
[44:57.490 --> 44:57.810]  Okay.
[44:57.870 --> 44:58.150]  You know what?
[44:58.150 --> 45:01.690]  I, I was, uh, in all fairness, I was being a bit negative.
[45:02.010 --> 45:05.650]  Uh, and, um, and Mike has corrected my, my path a bit.
[45:05.710 --> 45:07.890]  So yeah, you are expressing your opinion.
[45:08.050 --> 45:08.890]  Well, I'll say that.
[45:09.190 --> 45:10.450]  I don't agree with that though.
[45:10.690 --> 45:12.630]  But, but I also agree.
[45:12.630 --> 45:13.570]  We shouldn't give up the name.
[45:13.670 --> 45:15.630]  We invented it, you know, first of all.
[45:15.770 --> 45:17.970]  Uh, so that, that, that, that's a good point in itself.
[45:18.530 --> 45:29.230]  Um, but I like the idea that they put the, the word maker out there now, because there are a lot of kids getting involved the nest and I know parents automatically at this knee jerk.
[45:29.670 --> 45:33.490]  It's a good, almost like bridgeway drug to get them into act.
[45:34.230 --> 45:36.250]  Well, that's a great analogy right there.
[45:36.390 --> 45:36.550]  Okay.
[45:36.730 --> 45:36.930]  Wonderful.
[45:37.350 --> 45:43.190]  I like the fact that, uh, the folks at Maker Faire don't shy away from the hacker world and they embrace it.
[45:43.310 --> 45:49.210]  And in so doing, they, they bring cultures together and we can, uh, we can have conversations like this.
[45:49.210 --> 45:54.470]  We can have them in person though, outside of our van and then in other places at, at the, at the Maker Faires.
[45:54.750 --> 46:09.730]  Yeah, they are, they are just labels in a lot of ways, but they, they appreciate it because they see attributes of hackers as being makers and vice versa as, uh, makers having the inquisitiveness and, uh, and spirit of, of hackers as, as we're familiar with.
[46:09.890 --> 46:15.750]  So that cross-pollination is really, I think mutual, um, and, and thus why, why we get along.
[46:16.350 --> 46:19.110]  But, um, yeah, losing the identity.
[46:19.110 --> 46:19.650]  I'm with you.
[46:19.750 --> 46:27.990]  I think, uh, we, we should, we should be able to, um, identify as a hacker in, in a very, um, uh, in a, in a proud way in most contexts.
[46:28.090 --> 46:29.690]  I know people put it on their resume, so.
[46:29.810 --> 46:30.290]  There you go.
[46:31.010 --> 46:31.250]  All right.
[46:31.310 --> 46:31.850]  Vote time.
[46:32.170 --> 46:33.450]  Uh, Bernie, let's start with you.
[46:35.090 --> 46:35.410]  Hello?
[46:35.850 --> 46:37.570]  I guess, Bernie, do you have a vote on this?
[46:37.690 --> 46:39.010]  I vote thumbs up on this.
[46:39.070 --> 46:39.490]  Thumbs up.
[46:39.630 --> 46:39.790]  Okay.
[46:39.870 --> 46:40.050]  Mike?
[46:40.770 --> 46:41.250]  I'm sorry.
[46:41.330 --> 46:42.030]  I didn't turn your mic on.
[46:42.030 --> 46:43.270]  I think there's been a lot of insight.
[46:43.490 --> 46:43.830]  Thumbs up.
[46:44.110 --> 46:44.250]  Okay.
[46:44.570 --> 46:45.510]  Uh, uh, uh, Kyle?
[46:45.950 --> 46:46.590]  What do you think?
[46:47.290 --> 46:47.910]  Kyle's thinking.
[46:49.370 --> 46:52.070]  We can see his thumb, uh, just sort of hovering.
[46:52.470 --> 46:52.710]  Radio, Kyle.
[46:53.230 --> 46:54.730]  It's either up or down, right?
[46:54.730 --> 46:56.790]  There's no, I can't abstain.
[46:56.930 --> 46:58.670]  Well, middle ground isn't really helpful.
[46:59.070 --> 47:01.130]  Uh, there's no neutral, neutral voting.
[47:01.230 --> 47:04.030]  There's no Schrodinger, uh, superposition here.
[47:04.090 --> 47:04.910]  I'm giving a thumbs up.
[47:05.010 --> 47:06.510]  There, three thumbs up and we're waiting for you.
[47:06.670 --> 47:06.850]  All right.
[47:06.870 --> 47:07.690]  The cat is alive.
[47:08.010 --> 47:09.010]  What does that mean?
[47:09.870 --> 47:10.950]  The cat is alive.
[47:11.110 --> 47:11.210]  Okay.
[47:11.310 --> 47:11.410]  Okay.
[47:11.530 --> 47:12.230]  Thumbs up.
[47:12.370 --> 47:12.950]  Okay.
[47:13.430 --> 47:13.790]  Great.
[47:13.990 --> 47:15.290]  So, uh, two calls, two winners.
[47:15.870 --> 47:18.810]  Boy, we're easy, but they were good calls and good explanations.
[47:19.030 --> 47:20.690]  So, uh, caller, we're going to put you on hold.
[47:20.790 --> 47:22.030]  Kyle's going to, do you have an email address?
[47:22.530 --> 47:23.170]  Yes, I do.
[47:23.290 --> 47:23.470]  Okay.
[47:23.570 --> 47:24.530]  Kyle's going to ask for that.
[47:24.650 --> 47:33.030]  Then we're going to send you a code in email and, um, and, and that'll be the instructions for you to get, um, uh, a, a one day pass for two people.
[47:33.770 --> 47:34.230]  All right.
[47:34.850 --> 47:35.250]  Hang on.
[47:36.150 --> 47:39.210]  And, uh, this time Bernie did not go on hold.
[47:39.370 --> 47:39.810]  That's interesting.
[47:39.930 --> 47:40.550]  Bernie is still there.
[47:42.250 --> 47:43.590]  Bernie, are you there, Bernie?
[47:44.510 --> 47:44.710]  Okay.
[47:44.890 --> 47:47.650]  Somehow Bernie is not there, even though he's lit up.
[47:47.850 --> 47:50.330]  Um, I'm going to give you the phone, Kyle.
[47:52.430 --> 47:55.490]  And I think Kyle is talking to the person there.
[47:56.050 --> 47:56.710]  Okay, great.
[47:57.250 --> 48:02.230]  I'm not surprised that we got it in the first two because our, I think our listeners are generally insightful.
[48:02.410 --> 48:02.770]  Well, think about it.
[48:02.810 --> 48:10.510]  Why would you call off the hook and offer a definition of what a hacker is unless you felt that you were correct and that you did some research on it?
[48:10.550 --> 48:15.650]  So, yeah, I guess it's, it stands to reason the first two callers would have gotten it if they were indeed off the hook listeners.
[48:16.090 --> 48:22.750]  So, um, thumbs up to everybody out there who, uh, who, um, tried to call in and, and didn't succeed.
[48:22.750 --> 48:25.130]  We hope to see you at Maker Faire anyway.
[48:25.870 --> 48:34.950]  Um, and we're still taking phone calls, 212-209-2900, but we're not asking what a hacker is because quite honestly, we're tired of the subject.
[48:35.510 --> 48:37.130]  Um, and the phone has become free again.
[48:37.330 --> 48:38.010]  Uh, Bernie, are you back?
[48:38.130 --> 48:38.350]  Are you there?
[48:38.670 --> 48:38.730]  I'm back.
[48:38.810 --> 48:39.130]  I'm sorry.
[48:39.150 --> 48:44.550]  I was talking to Gary Null on the other line, uh, who had called in to listen to the, uh, the staff meeting.
[48:44.570 --> 48:45.710]  You would talk, you know what?
[48:45.730 --> 48:47.330]  I don't even want to know, but, uh, okay, great.
[48:47.430 --> 48:48.730]  I'm glad we didn't lose you on our end.
[48:49.210 --> 48:53.310]  Uh, 212-209-2900, please call up if you just want to talk to us.
[48:53.710 --> 48:56.930]  And, uh, and we won't be discussing the definition of hacking anymore.
[48:57.290 --> 49:03.810]  Um, you guys remember, uh, a bunch of folks that used to hang out, Occupy.
[49:03.950 --> 49:04.390]  Remember them?
[49:04.830 --> 49:04.970]  Yeah.
[49:05.370 --> 49:06.770]  Well, they're in the news again.
[49:06.990 --> 49:07.410]  Get this.
[49:07.490 --> 49:10.210]  This is, this is one of the best hacks.
[49:10.210 --> 49:21.990]  And I, I use that term, I think quite appropriately here because they are using the system in a way that is brilliant and, um, and, and simply admirable and something I think we should all emulate.
[49:22.410 --> 49:26.230]  Um, they, um, it's a third anniversary of Occupy Wall Street.
[49:26.650 --> 49:30.570]  Uh, they have an initiative known as Strike Debt.
[49:31.010 --> 49:37.190]  What they did, what they did was they went out and, uh, you know how debt collectors work.
[49:37.190 --> 49:48.970]  Uh, they, they basically, um, uh, they hound you mercilessly to get, um, to get money and, and, and they buy the debt from various organizations for pennies on the dollar.
[49:49.210 --> 49:58.790]  So if say you owe somebody a hundred dollars and they send debt collectors after you, those debt collectors buy the debt for, um, I don't know, pennies on the dollar, not very much at all.
[49:59.090 --> 50:10.670]  Um, what they have done is they have bought, um, something like $3.8 million worth of private student loan debt and they, they, they buy the debts, like I said, for pennies on the dollar.
[50:10.890 --> 50:16.570]  And what they have been doing is simply forgiving the debts after they buy it for that low price.
[50:16.750 --> 50:17.010]  Brilliant.
[50:17.270 --> 50:17.930]  Isn't that amazing?
[50:17.930 --> 50:30.270]  So what they've done is they basically just wiped away $3.8 million of student loans and, uh, and, and, and they haven't spent all that much in, in comparison to the amount of the loans to do this.
[50:30.370 --> 50:31.790]  Is that because they're buying it bulk?
[50:32.070 --> 50:36.330]  Like in such quantity that they are actually, uh, wow.
[50:36.490 --> 50:37.850]  I never thought of doing that.
[50:38.010 --> 50:38.910]  Isn't that brilliant?
[50:38.930 --> 50:46.250]  Kind of like a few years ago, these collateralized debt obligations where all these like bogus, these terrible mortgages were like piled together into one big investment thing.
[50:46.410 --> 50:47.330]  It's kind of like that.
[50:47.330 --> 50:48.890]  Only this is for good.
[50:49.310 --> 50:49.590]  Mm-hmm.
[50:49.950 --> 50:50.250]  Yes.
[50:50.530 --> 51:01.110]  Now, uh, the debt that they bought, it actually, it sounds like a lot, but it actually only belonged to, uh, 2,700 people, uh, who took out private student loans to attend Everest College.
[51:01.650 --> 51:05.110]  So it's only one college, only, you know, a couple of thousand people.
[51:05.290 --> 51:07.270]  But boy, you know, this is something significant.
[51:07.270 --> 51:14.230]  It shows that, uh, uh, the system can be defeated in this particular way and, and people can actually have a chance to live normal lives.
[51:14.370 --> 51:23.830]  They had done this in the past, I believe, with, uh, some medical debt, uh, which is, which is possibly the most evil kind of debt because it's not something you generally choose to, to enter into.
[51:24.070 --> 51:28.390]  Um, and it's really, uh, amazing work that the strike debt folks have done.
[51:28.530 --> 51:35.230]  I wonder, is, uh, Everest private, are they a private, uh, for-profit college or are they, uh... I believe it's a private college.
[51:35.370 --> 51:35.650]  I don't know.
[51:35.850 --> 51:36.010]  It's a private college.
[51:36.010 --> 51:38.650]  Yeah, I'm not sure, uh, if it's, if that means it's for-profit.
[51:38.650 --> 51:42.830]  I assume, like, most colleges that they're a non-profit, but I don't know specifically.
[51:43.090 --> 51:43.170]  Okay.
[51:43.790 --> 51:45.450]  Uh, 212-209-2900.
[51:45.590 --> 51:46.450]  Let's take some phone calls.
[51:46.570 --> 51:46.970]  Good evening.
[51:46.970 --> 51:47.970]  You're on Off the Hook.
[51:49.170 --> 51:49.570]  Hello?
[51:49.910 --> 51:50.150]  Hi.
[51:50.230 --> 51:50.650]  Speak up, please.
[51:51.510 --> 51:51.910]  Yes.
[51:52.130 --> 51:52.850]  And turn on your radio.
[51:53.490 --> 51:53.890]  Yes.
[51:54.050 --> 51:56.310]  I have, uh, I have a quote.
[51:56.870 --> 51:57.930]  I believe that works.
[51:58.090 --> 51:59.190]  Am I allowed to use a quote?
[51:59.390 --> 52:03.790]  Okay, uh, the contest is over, but you can still give us a definition if you wish.
[52:03.790 --> 52:04.490]  Sure.
[52:04.810 --> 52:05.290]  Awesome.
[52:05.610 --> 52:06.650]  I'd love to give one.
[52:06.890 --> 52:09.470]  It's from one of my favorite movies called Hellraiser.
[52:09.570 --> 52:10.010]  Okay.
[52:10.030 --> 52:11.130]  Not during my birth year.
[52:11.630 --> 52:16.530]  It's when the lead character asked the Cenobites, the villains from the movie, who are you?
[52:16.690 --> 52:24.530]  And they replied, explorers into the further regions of experience, demons to some, angels to others.
[52:25.150 --> 52:28.030]  Okay, well, definitely demons to some and angels to others.
[52:28.210 --> 52:29.690]  That's, I could live with that.
[52:29.850 --> 52:30.430]  I like that.
[52:30.750 --> 52:31.290]  I like it.
[52:32.410 --> 52:32.790]  All right.
[52:32.850 --> 52:33.810]  We can't give you tickets.
[52:33.950 --> 52:34.490]  We wish we could.
[52:34.890 --> 52:36.630]  But, uh, hopefully we'll see you down there.
[52:37.210 --> 52:37.770]  Yes, quick.
[52:38.010 --> 52:39.570]  Can I ask one quick other thing?
[52:39.670 --> 52:39.930]  Yes, quick.
[52:40.110 --> 52:41.770]  About the, uh, Apple Pay system?
[52:42.290 --> 52:45.230]  Uh, well, apparently we don't know anything about Apple, but, uh, go ahead and ask.
[52:45.330 --> 52:45.890]  That's fine.
[52:45.890 --> 53:04.190]  Real quick, uh, one thing I haven't heard brought up on the show left, which really concerns me, not that I use, because I avoid iOS products like the plague, is that, uh, the way, apparently, that they store the information from your cards that you scan in is through the Passbook app and the MyTouch app,
[53:04.270 --> 53:07.070]  which both have been compromised in the past.
[53:07.270 --> 53:12.370]  And so that's one other avenue of Apple Pay where I just do not think this is a good idea at all.
[53:13.490 --> 53:13.930]  Okay.
[53:14.050 --> 53:14.870]  Well, go with your instincts.
[53:14.930 --> 53:15.910]  That's what I would say.
[53:16.050 --> 53:20.010]  Uh, if you think something is a bad idea, I would not use it or agree to it.
[53:20.450 --> 53:22.130]  Um, I find myself doing that a lot.
[53:22.210 --> 53:22.450]  Thanks.
[53:22.650 --> 53:23.290]  Uh, thanks for that call.
[53:23.730 --> 53:28.030]  212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[53:28.650 --> 53:29.330]  Good evening.
[53:29.450 --> 53:30.110]  You're on off the hook.
[53:30.510 --> 53:31.230]  Oh, dear.
[53:31.890 --> 53:33.330]  Getting that caller a lot.
[53:33.830 --> 53:36.370]  Uh, 212-209-2900.
[53:36.670 --> 53:38.570]  And we seem to have lost the other calls.
[53:38.750 --> 53:42.030]  So, uh, if anyone else is out there, please dial now.
[53:42.190 --> 53:45.930]  I mean, I would just say that, like, no one has actually seen or used this product yet.
[53:45.930 --> 53:49.930]  So anyone who claims to know everything about it, uh, is wrong.
[53:50.530 --> 53:50.970]  Okay.
[53:51.110 --> 53:53.830]  So consider whether they're lying to you on purpose or just an idiot.
[53:54.130 --> 53:57.350]  But, uh, you know, wait, wait till the thing is out.
[53:57.470 --> 53:58.750]  Then, then we can evaluate it.
[53:58.810 --> 53:59.590]  Bernie, go ahead quickly.
[53:59.850 --> 54:05.250]  I just want to say, uh, that, uh, Monday, I think was the deadline for a comment to the FCC about net neutrality.
[54:05.290 --> 54:09.590]  And there was a big protest on Monday afternoon at Comcast headquarters here in Philadelphia.
[54:09.910 --> 54:10.150]  Uh-huh.
[54:10.430 --> 54:20.250]  And, uh, there was a good showing, but there were a lot of Philadelphia police and, uh, Comcast private security guards guarding, guarding the castle, that massive castle.
[54:20.250 --> 54:21.530]  What did they think was going to happen?
[54:23.510 --> 54:24.130]  I don't know.
[54:24.290 --> 54:25.990]  It was, it was an imposing show of force.
[54:26.190 --> 54:26.890]  Such imaginations.
[54:27.050 --> 54:28.130]  Let's take one more call.
[54:28.230 --> 54:28.530]  Good evening.
[54:28.670 --> 54:29.290]  You're on off the hook.
[54:31.130 --> 54:31.730]  Speak up.
[54:32.410 --> 54:33.250]  Oh, they hung up.
[54:33.550 --> 54:33.930]  One more.
[54:34.010 --> 54:34.310]  Good evening.
[54:34.470 --> 54:35.130]  You're on off the hook.
[54:36.690 --> 54:38.230]  That's my voice, but turn down your radio.
[54:38.470 --> 54:38.870]  You there?
[54:41.090 --> 54:43.950]  You know, you, you yelled so loudly that we couldn't hear you.
[54:44.030 --> 54:44.350]  Good evening.
[54:44.530 --> 54:45.230]  You're on off the hook.
[54:46.830 --> 54:47.470]  Anyone there?
[54:49.650 --> 54:50.090]  Okay.
[54:50.310 --> 54:50.730]  You know what?
[54:50.790 --> 54:53.670]  I think, I think it's time for us to move on.
[54:54.010 --> 54:56.770]  Thank you, everybody, for participating, for calling in.
[54:57.070 --> 54:59.250]  Uh, we will be back next week.
[55:00.970 --> 55:01.410]  Hopefully.
[55:01.870 --> 55:05.470]  You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[55:13.830 --> 55:21.490]  We will see you at Maker Faire, the 2600 van.
[55:21.690 --> 55:23.050]  We'll see you next week on the show.
[55:23.570 --> 55:25.930]  And, uh, again, OTH at 2600.com.
[55:35.150 --> 55:54.010]  This one's for you.
[55:55.930 --> 55:57.930]  This one's for you.
[56:07.990 --> 56:09.470]  This one's for you.
[56:11.610 --> 56:13.270]  This one's for you.
[56:13.290 --> 56:14.570]  This one's for you.
[56:14.890 --> 56:16.390]  This one's for you.
[56:17.010 --> 56:18.070]  This one's for you.
[56:18.270 --> 56:19.950]  This one's for you.
[56:20.110 --> 56:21.870]  This one's for you.
[56:22.570 --> 56:23.590]  This one's for you.
[56:24.150 --> 56:25.490]  This one's for you.
[56:25.490 --> 56:25.910]  This one's for you.
[56:26.770 --> 56:30.450]  This is the second one.
[56:31.870 --> 56:32.910]  This is the second one.
[56:33.310 --> 56:33.310]  This is the second one.
[56:33.370 --> 56:34.010]  This is the second one.
[56:34.010 --> 56:35.250]  This is the second one.
[56:35.390 --> 56:36.870]  This is the second one.
[56:37.390 --> 56:38.630]  This is the second one.
[56:38.670 --> 56:39.870]  This is the second one.
[56:40.730 --> 56:42.150]  This is the second one.
[56:42.230 --> 56:43.630]  This is the second one.
[56:43.850 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:45.830]  This is the third one.
[56:45.830 --> 56:46.010]  This is the third one.
[56:46.010 --> 56:46.030]  This is the third one.
[56:46.030 --> 56:46.030]  This is the third one.
[56:46.030 --> 56:46.890]  This is the third one.
[56:46.890 --> 56:46.890]  This is the third one.
[56:47.210 --> 56:47.430]  This is the third one.
[56:47.430 --> 56:48.970]  This is the third one.
[56:49.030 --> 56:50.670]  This is the third one.
[56:50.870 --> 56:52.410]  This is the third one.
[56:52.550 --> 56:52.890]  This is the third
[57:05.440 --> 57:06.540]  one.
[57:06.540 --> 57:07.580]  This is the third one.
[57:08.420 --> 57:08.440]  This
[57:18.250 --> 57:21.910]  Off the ground, Moshe is in a place,장을 in a piece of the showl!
[57:46.890 --> 57:50.310]  Check 1-2, are you f**king doing the float?
[57:50.670 --> 57:52.070]  Move your feet out, Dex.
[57:52.510 --> 57:53.830]  Rack your beats out, Dex.
[57:54.190 --> 57:55.570]  Remove your feet out, Dex.
[57:55.990 --> 57:57.290]  Rack your feet out, Dex.
[58:54.030 --> 58:58.530]  Hey, why don't we have the after-school programs anymore?
[58:58.530 --> 59:02.430]  I know why, because the politicians took it away.
[59:02.990 --> 59:07.570]  That's right, you're listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM.