[00:00.000 --> 00:06.480]  In that sense, I think we're at the start, unless there's a very big and sudden change of what is essentially a new war.
[00:07.200 --> 00:10.260]  WBAI, speaking truth to power for over 50 years.
[00:10.560 --> 00:15.460]  It's almost as though 13 years after 9-11, we don't seem to have learned much.
[00:15.620 --> 00:23.340]  And if anything, many of the actions we've taken, which have led to the deaths of well over 200,000 people, have actually been counterproductive.
[00:23.540 --> 00:25.480]  And one just wonders when we will learn.
[00:26.440 --> 00:28.580]  WBAI, your community alternative.
[00:32.930 --> 00:37.010]  And you are listening to radio station WBAI, New York.
[00:37.210 --> 00:38.730]  Time is just about 7 o'clock.
[00:38.830 --> 00:40.550]  Time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:45.780 --> 00:50.200]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:51.200 --> 00:55.720]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:01.500 --> 01:03.940]  Live on for the best, expect the worst.
[01:04.600 --> 01:07.500]  I hope that's understood, but little bit more!
[02:20.000 --> 02:21.520]  And the very good evening to everybody.
[02:21.680 --> 02:22.420]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:22.500 --> 02:24.680]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Mike.
[02:24.920 --> 02:25.380]  Good evening.
[02:25.560 --> 02:25.820]  Kyle.
[02:26.200 --> 02:26.480]  Hello.
[02:26.740 --> 02:27.500]  And Bernie S.
[02:27.760 --> 02:28.880]  Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[02:29.580 --> 02:34.320]  Well, didn't we have fun this past weekend, Kyle, at the Maker Faire meeting so many of our listeners?
[02:34.720 --> 02:36.120]  We had a heck of a good time.
[02:36.220 --> 02:36.880]  Whole lots of fun.
[02:36.960 --> 02:38.700]  We even met the listeners who won the contest.
[02:38.700 --> 02:39.960]  Yes, all of them, yes.
[02:39.960 --> 02:40.300]  That was cool.
[02:40.500 --> 02:40.960]  That was cool.
[02:41.020 --> 02:42.580]  Well, there were only two of them, but they brought friends.
[02:43.320 --> 02:45.100]  But they made a point to see us, yeah.
[02:45.340 --> 02:46.240]  They sure did, yes.
[02:46.260 --> 02:48.960]  And the 2600 van was right there, parked in the middle of it all.
[02:49.240 --> 02:52.380]  Did they interrogate you after the interrogation we gave them?
[02:52.560 --> 02:53.340]  No, not really.
[02:53.440 --> 02:57.000]  I mean, we had a nice discussion about the definition of hacking and what a hacker is and all that.
[02:57.500 --> 02:59.840]  We had that conversation with a lot of people, actually.
[02:59.840 --> 03:08.000]  But, you know, one of the best things about it, we have this phone, this 1936 Western electric telephone.
[03:09.440 --> 03:10.220]  I'm getting that right.
[03:10.360 --> 03:11.040]  Am I not, Kyle?
[03:11.420 --> 03:12.200]  Yeah, you got it right.
[03:12.300 --> 03:13.740]  It's an extension of some kind.
[03:13.920 --> 03:15.040]  It did not have a...
[03:15.480 --> 03:19.380]  It's the kind you might see in an old television program that it looks kind of...
[03:19.380 --> 03:20.040]  How would you describe it?
[03:20.060 --> 03:21.040]  Kind of small.
[03:21.220 --> 03:21.820]  It doesn't have a bell.
[03:22.000 --> 03:27.320]  Yeah, it doesn't have a lot of the plastic and the shape you might associate with an early rotary phone.
[03:27.320 --> 03:33.820]  Most of those ones you think of are like the 60s and 70s when the model itself was pretty well refined.
[03:34.140 --> 03:39.960]  This would have been a lot earlier in the 30s and has a lot more metal.
[03:40.140 --> 03:44.420]  In fact, the entire base of it is like a cast steel or an iron.
[03:44.420 --> 03:46.020]  I've never had this model phone before.
[03:46.220 --> 03:49.420]  I've had the, obviously, the 500 series.
[03:49.640 --> 03:50.660]  And what's the other one called?
[03:50.940 --> 03:51.220]  The...
[03:51.220 --> 03:52.100]  300.
[03:52.440 --> 03:53.000]  300 series.
[03:53.220 --> 03:55.720]  Yeah, a little bit older than the late 50s stuff.
[03:55.720 --> 03:56.240]  Uh-huh.
[03:56.360 --> 04:00.300]  And this one had a special little mouthpiece, too, that was like aimed for your mouth or something?
[04:00.480 --> 04:12.860]  Yeah, like a mouth, like a cup that goes around the front of it, which is just basically the mouthpiece being a different type than your standard flat mouthpiece from an old phone like that.
[04:12.960 --> 04:19.320]  So you had the idea to ask kids who came up to the van if they could figure out how to dial a number on that phone.
[04:20.180 --> 04:29.180]  Yeah, it's something we know attracts a lot of attention and it came to us, I think, that, gee, wouldn't it be fun to just kind of offer it as a challenge?
[04:29.380 --> 04:38.260]  Just especially with little kids, they're kind of milling around and looking at all kinds of tangible, tactile stuff that they can play with.
[04:38.260 --> 04:42.280]  And, well, this is just something we could offer as a part of, like, history.
[04:42.580 --> 04:50.180]  And I think it's also a useful thing that a kid who perhaps has no exposure to this will at least be familiar with it as a telephone.
[04:50.380 --> 04:50.840]  Yeah.
[04:50.840 --> 05:02.320]  Because it would really, wouldn't surprise a lot of people how little knowledge there is in some of the more recent generations of how these devices work and what they were actually for.
[05:02.320 --> 05:03.660]  That's my question, then.
[05:03.780 --> 05:06.720]  How did they respond to this, especially the younger kids?
[05:06.820 --> 05:09.260]  Were they able to figure out how to dial a number on a rotary phone?
[05:10.040 --> 05:10.760]  Yeah, absolutely.
[05:10.840 --> 05:11.940]  You get the whole spectrum.
[05:12.140 --> 05:13.480]  It was really fun, though.
[05:14.340 --> 05:22.940]  Basically, you'd get a couple different types of reactions, but it really just was a lot of fun for any of the young people coming up and seeing it for the first time.
[05:23.040 --> 05:27.120]  Or maybe they knew, so they had a lot of confidence and they'd go right to it and show you how it's done.
[05:27.120 --> 05:41.820]  But either way, we would kind of guide them along and show them what it was all about and make sure that we explained it and explore it a little bit as well as giving them an opportunity to figure it out for themselves without any kind of coaching and stuff.
[05:41.920 --> 05:43.480]  Some did have trouble, though.
[05:44.600 --> 05:45.280]  Yeah, yeah.
[05:45.280 --> 05:49.780]  There were some kids that, you know, they just poke it straight ahead, trying to push down.
[05:50.960 --> 05:54.700]  There was a lot of the receiver being upside down with the cord up by their ear.
[05:54.700 --> 05:57.440]  I noticed that more, where they were holding... the receiver was huge, first of all.
[05:57.520 --> 05:58.700]  It was bigger than most kids' heads.
[05:58.920 --> 05:59.060]  Yeah.
[05:59.200 --> 06:03.900]  And they had the mouthpiece by their ear and the earpiece by their mouth, but they quickly figured that out.
[06:04.140 --> 06:09.480]  But the actual dialing part... I know we were talking to them, and a lot of adults, too, about the finger stop.
[06:09.700 --> 06:13.560]  And I don't think I ever used that word before, but the finger stop is what stops your finger when you dial.
[06:13.800 --> 06:14.160]  Emmanuel?
[06:14.360 --> 06:14.540]  Yes.
[06:15.500 --> 06:20.820]  One thing about the finger stop is it was always grounded by the telephone man.
[06:20.820 --> 06:28.160]  The phone typically would come out, and so if you built a crystal radio or something, you could always alligator clip it to the finger stop of your phone.
[06:28.300 --> 06:29.420]  It was of really good ground.
[06:29.600 --> 06:34.380]  But did any of these kids try to talk to the phone, like it was a Siri kind of a thing?
[06:35.100 --> 06:35.900]  That would be funny.
[06:36.120 --> 06:41.400]  There wasn't as much of that, but there was definitely some imaginary conversations going on.
[06:41.920 --> 06:51.600]  A couple of the kids would be waiting for someone to be speaking, or they would improvise a conversation that they imagined was going on on the other end.
[06:51.660 --> 07:00.620]  We didn't actually have it plugged into anything, but there was quite a bit of creativity in how the call should go, regardless of whether it was plugged into anything.
[07:00.920 --> 07:08.100]  So there was much dialing, and then waiting, and then some chatter with the phone, regardless of the fact that it was not working.
[07:08.100 --> 07:11.320]  I thought it was significant that not one kid did not take the challenge.
[07:11.500 --> 07:14.340]  Not one kid said, this is stupid, I don't want to know about this, and walked away.
[07:14.400 --> 07:15.820]  No, everybody was into it.
[07:15.940 --> 07:21.680]  And that sort of speaks to the whole mood of the event, and it was just a lot of fun to see that.
[07:21.820 --> 07:31.660]  Well, and the other really interesting part of it is here we are reintroducing something that itself was demonstrated at a World's Fair on a World's Fair ground like this.
[07:32.440 --> 07:44.140]  And here we are bringing this old technology in, and basically keeping that sharing alive, even though it may be 50 or almost hundreds of years later.
[07:44.360 --> 07:48.520]  It's just sort of funny to be still channeling that and showing people.
[07:48.520 --> 08:02.140]  And on a certain level, it's still kind of useful, if not entirely practical, it's at least useful from a historical standpoint, and just kind of a casual knowledge.
[08:02.320 --> 08:10.320]  Because you still see these things sometimes, and if you were ever in a position of needing to dial one, well, knowing how would be great.
[08:10.320 --> 08:15.320]  We also met a lot of listeners who attended the... actually, not necessarily just listeners.
[08:15.480 --> 08:20.360]  We met a lot of people who attended the Hope Conference, and I didn't hear a single negative remark.
[08:20.580 --> 08:22.000]  Everybody seemed to have a great time.
[08:22.120 --> 08:29.940]  So it was kind of cool to get that unanimous feeling of, wow, that was an awesome conference, and I really learned a lot.
[08:30.440 --> 08:36.880]  Also, a lot of listeners, many listeners expressing concern over the radio station, over our future, et cetera, et cetera.
[08:38.440 --> 08:40.780]  Nobody not being supportive, as far as I could see.
[08:41.320 --> 08:42.860]  But we do have some good news.
[08:43.240 --> 08:44.700]  Thanks to the efforts of Rob T.
[08:44.820 --> 08:54.440]  Firefly, who we sent into the fire last week to a BAI meeting, we have gotten a check for the amount for the thumb drives that were pledged for almost exactly a year ago.
[08:54.600 --> 08:55.540]  Isn't that good news, Bernie?
[08:56.120 --> 08:56.920]  Very good news.
[08:57.060 --> 09:05.740]  And I hear it went out in the mail today, along with a quote that we got for the flash drives, who we should be getting them back in a week or two.
[09:05.740 --> 09:10.140]  Yeah, we'll have that premium ready probably in the next couple of weeks ahead.
[09:10.140 --> 09:15.900]  It's something we're really excited to have completion on, and we'll be getting those out as soon as we can.
[09:16.240 --> 09:17.340]  I am slightly concerned.
[09:17.340 --> 09:18.060]  We sent Rob T.
[09:18.160 --> 09:22.720]  Firefly to a WBAI meeting one week ago, and he's still not back.
[09:22.880 --> 09:23.940]  Should we investigate?
[09:24.640 --> 09:27.040]  He's being detained for...
[09:27.040 --> 09:30.100]  They said they were going to hold him for about a month or so.
[09:30.620 --> 09:30.900]  Oh.
[09:30.900 --> 09:34.680]  And it has something to do with daring to challenge...
[09:34.680 --> 09:36.800]  No, he's basically... he's got a gig.
[09:37.000 --> 09:37.800]  He's got a gig.
[09:37.820 --> 09:39.540]  In case you don't know, Rob T.
[09:39.640 --> 09:42.160]  Firefly is a film star that occasionally...
[09:42.160 --> 09:42.600]  He's a busy man.
[09:42.680 --> 09:42.840]  Yeah.
[09:43.040 --> 09:46.800]  Occasionally he gets, you know, cast, and he has to...
[09:46.800 --> 09:48.480]  He has to answer that call.
[09:48.500 --> 09:49.620]  He has to find his motivation.
[09:49.960 --> 09:50.260]  We understand that.
[09:50.560 --> 09:56.620]  We're pleased that he's able to spend time with the commenters occasionally, and we're just thankful for that.
[09:56.840 --> 09:57.520]  Yeah, definitely.
[09:57.520 --> 09:57.620]  Definitely.
[09:58.640 --> 10:07.060]  Now, something that has changed that I think might be of concern to a number of people, it's something from Apple known as a warrant canary.
[10:07.640 --> 10:09.020]  What is that, you might ask?
[10:09.100 --> 10:11.000]  Well, it's not really a canary.
[10:11.840 --> 10:20.780]  Basically, what they did, what they did was something that we've talked about doing in the past, and I'm kind of relieved that companies out there do things like this.
[10:20.780 --> 10:36.580]  When they published their transparency report, their first one back in, I guess it was late 2013, the document contained an important footnote, and it said this, Apple has never received an order under Section 215 of the USA Patriot Act.
[10:36.760 --> 10:40.320]  We would expect to challenge such an order if served on us.
[10:40.480 --> 10:46.280]  So what's significant is that this little statement has disappeared.
[10:46.500 --> 10:49.580]  It's no longer in their transparency report.
[10:49.580 --> 10:58.720]  So this has people wondering if that means that they have, in fact, received an order under Section 215 of the USA Patriot Act.
[10:59.800 --> 11:03.900]  If you receive such an order, you're not allowed to tell people that you received an order.
[11:04.040 --> 11:08.300]  But they haven't figured out yet how to keep people from not...
[11:08.300 --> 11:09.320]  I don't even know how to say it.
[11:09.420 --> 11:14.760]  But from removing a statement that said they didn't get one, I don't know how they would make somebody not do that.
[11:14.760 --> 11:18.080]  I guess I'd have to tell you to lie and say, yes, you still haven't received one.
[11:18.840 --> 11:19.820]  But that's gone.
[11:20.000 --> 11:20.500]  That's gone.
[11:20.580 --> 11:22.100]  And that's something we should be concerned about, right?
[11:23.360 --> 11:23.800]  Particularly.
[11:24.360 --> 11:29.260]  I mean, so this is unsurprising that Apple has received, presumably received such a notice.
[11:29.480 --> 11:30.360]  We can't know for sure.
[11:31.280 --> 11:32.380]  It took this long, though?
[11:32.660 --> 11:33.980]  2013 for them to get one?
[11:34.580 --> 11:41.460]  I mean, this is only one of the many types of notices that the government serves on companies.
[11:41.460 --> 11:48.100]  It's one of the most evil types, I would say, because you can't even...
[11:48.100 --> 11:55.140]  You know, it's one thing if there's an ongoing criminal investigation and you can't tell the subject of the investigation, well, that's going on.
[11:55.260 --> 12:00.000]  And maybe you can't make it public because the subject of the investigation might read the newspaper.
[12:00.220 --> 12:05.200]  So for a limited time, you know, maybe there's sometimes some need for secrecy.
[12:06.780 --> 12:19.040]  But cases like this, Apple or other entities who've been served with these types of orders, there are very few that we know publicly have been allowed to say, yes, I was served with an order.
[12:19.180 --> 12:19.980]  That's all I can tell you.
[12:20.720 --> 12:23.760]  But even that requires a lot of court battling.
[12:25.260 --> 12:29.600]  And it's just shrouded in secrecy, so many layers of secrecy.
[12:29.700 --> 12:32.840]  I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to say as much as I've said.
[12:33.420 --> 12:34.860]  Well, you know, this is the thing.
[12:35.200 --> 12:37.040]  I don't get why everybody plays along.
[12:37.180 --> 12:39.600]  Everyone should just say what actually happened.
[12:39.740 --> 12:41.520]  Yeah, you're being threatened with all kinds of penalties.
[12:41.620 --> 12:43.880]  If you tell somebody about it, tell them anyway.
[12:44.060 --> 12:45.180]  You know, see what happens.
[12:45.400 --> 12:47.320]  Yeah, you know, you might get the book thrown at you.
[12:47.400 --> 12:55.280]  But if everybody did this, then we wouldn't be living in such an absurd world where this is actually something that they expect people to do.
[12:55.400 --> 13:03.760]  Not tell when somebody comes and requests private information from people that it's debatable whether they have the right to do that in the first place.
[13:04.900 --> 13:05.620]  So, wow.
[13:06.100 --> 13:07.540]  We'll keep an eye on this, obviously.
[13:07.740 --> 13:08.980]  And why is it called a canary?
[13:09.080 --> 13:10.020]  Does anybody have an answer for that?
[13:10.160 --> 13:11.580]  It's the canary in the coal mine.
[13:11.800 --> 13:14.640]  It dies when liberty is threatened.
[13:15.400 --> 13:15.580]  All right.
[13:15.600 --> 13:15.740]  Yeah.
[13:15.820 --> 13:17.240]  So they have a canary in a coal mine.
[13:17.340 --> 13:20.440]  And when there's a leak of toxic fumes, a canary dies.
[13:20.700 --> 13:20.840]  Yeah.
[13:21.480 --> 13:23.000]  But you have a dead canary then.
[13:23.300 --> 13:23.360]  Yeah.
[13:23.380 --> 13:24.400]  There's no canary now.
[13:24.760 --> 13:26.780]  Well, it's a dead warrant canary.
[13:26.980 --> 13:27.320]  All right.
[13:27.880 --> 13:33.000]  There's a story that I hope you have it because I'm trying to pull it up and I'm failing.
[13:33.340 --> 13:34.440]  I don't have everything, Mike.
[13:34.560 --> 13:35.800]  I only have one briefcase.
[13:36.560 --> 13:39.440]  That should be enough to contain enough material for an hour.
[13:39.440 --> 13:44.460]  But Yahoo was threatened with a quarter million dollar fine.
[13:44.820 --> 13:45.300]  Sorry.
[13:45.360 --> 13:50.940]  A quarter million dollar per day fine if they refuse to comply with an order.
[13:51.780 --> 13:54.680]  Back in 2008, they're finally allowed to talk about it.
[13:55.780 --> 13:56.860]  I heard about that.
[13:56.860 --> 13:58.620]  I don't have that story with me, but I did hear about that.
[13:59.720 --> 14:00.980]  So, you know.
[14:01.120 --> 14:09.880]  I also heard Microsoft is refusing to turn over information that is being requested in a foreign country, I believe, from the United States.
[14:11.220 --> 14:15.220]  And it's kind of interesting to see these companies standing up for a change.
[14:15.480 --> 14:22.100]  I'm not sure how long that will go, but to actually refuse to turn something over when you've been ordered to by a court is somewhat refreshing.
[14:22.780 --> 14:24.220]  I don't have more details on that either.
[14:24.340 --> 14:25.140]  It's just something that...
[14:25.140 --> 14:30.480]  So there's 1,500 pages of documents, and unfortunately I haven't had the time to read them in the Yahoo case.
[14:31.120 --> 14:36.300]  But a quarter million dollars a day is real money, even for these large tech companies.
[14:39.080 --> 14:39.860]  Go ahead, Barney.
[14:40.600 --> 14:47.620]  What do you think the motivations are for these big internet companies for standing up to the government now?
[14:47.740 --> 14:57.280]  Is it because they really care about our privacy, or do they really fear that their customers may not use them if they think they're in bed with the U.S.
[14:57.400 --> 14:57.680]  government?
[14:58.780 --> 15:05.200]  So again, the Yahoo case is from 2008, so they were fighting it six years ago.
[15:05.900 --> 15:08.440]  I suspect it's some combination of those reasons.
[15:08.680 --> 15:12.720]  I can't get into the minds of the Yahoo executives.
[15:13.640 --> 15:22.380]  It's also remarkably inconvenient for Yahoo or any large tech company to have to comply with all these orders all the time.
[15:22.640 --> 15:23.620]  To get paid for this.
[15:24.120 --> 15:29.960]  Yeah, but, you know, and it's a business, I guess, to get paid for complying with court orders.
[15:30.120 --> 15:37.540]  But, you know, the tech companies are just not as competent at extorting the government in that kind of way as the telecoms.
[15:39.300 --> 15:40.040]  Well put.
[15:40.040 --> 15:50.960]  All right, in other news, our friend Edward Snowden has been declared one of the winners of a Swedish Human Rights Award for his disclosures of top-secret government surveillance programs.
[15:51.140 --> 16:09.720]  A former NSA contractor on Wednesday split the honorary portion of the 2014 Right Livelihood Award, also referred to as the Alternative Nobel, with Alan Rusbridger, editor of the British newspaper The Guardian, which happened to publish a series of articles based on the documents leaked by Snowden.
[16:09.880 --> 16:22.080]  The 1.5 million kroner, which comes to $210,000 cash award, was also shared by Pakistani human rights activist Asma Jangir and Basil Fernando of the Asian Human Rights Commission and U.S.
[16:22.540 --> 16:23.820]  environmentalist Bill McKibben.
[16:24.400 --> 16:35.920]  Created in 1980, the annual Right Livelihood Award honors efforts that prize founder Jacob von Uckel felt were being ignored by the Nobel Prizes.
[16:36.260 --> 16:38.780]  But have the Nobel Prizes been awarded yet?
[16:38.780 --> 16:40.680]  Is there still a chance he could win one of those?
[16:41.360 --> 16:42.180]  I think so.
[16:42.400 --> 16:42.660]  Okay.
[16:42.860 --> 16:43.200]  All right.
[16:43.560 --> 16:46.560]  I'm going to answer no to both questions, but maybe I'll be wrong.
[16:46.780 --> 16:47.060]  All right.
[16:47.140 --> 16:47.660]  Well, we'll see.
[16:48.660 --> 16:50.400]  So they each get to split.
[16:50.840 --> 16:52.260]  I guess they each get their cut.
[16:52.360 --> 16:54.880]  These four winners of this award is about $50,000.
[16:55.420 --> 16:58.040]  So Ed Snowden is going to get about $50,000 from this award.
[16:58.580 --> 16:59.840]  And it would be interesting.
[16:59.840 --> 17:06.720]  I guess he'll be paying the federal government his federal income taxes on that money.
[17:07.240 --> 17:08.820]  You're always thinking practically, Bernie.
[17:09.180 --> 17:09.360]  Yeah, right.
[17:10.960 --> 17:13.180]  We'll just have to work that out when it happens.
[17:13.340 --> 17:14.400]  It would be ironic.
[17:14.740 --> 17:15.820]  Yeah, yeah, it would be.
[17:15.820 --> 17:15.820]  Okay.
[17:16.640 --> 17:17.260]  What else?
[17:17.460 --> 17:20.420]  Well, you know, there's a new television program.
[17:20.560 --> 17:24.400]  I know this excites everybody out there because when we're not listening to the radio, we're watching television.
[17:24.900 --> 17:31.100]  And this one, this program, Kyle, you and I saw a clip from this, a program called Scorpion on CBS.
[17:33.560 --> 17:35.380]  And I don't know the way to begin on this.
[17:36.280 --> 17:44.720]  I happened upon a summary from our friend, Annalee Newitz, on the internet about this particular...
[17:44.720 --> 17:49.320]  She says it better than I think any of us could, even though we actually saw that particular segment.
[17:49.400 --> 17:50.140]  Didn't see the whole episode.
[17:50.240 --> 17:50.920]  Looking forward to that.
[17:51.360 --> 17:54.720]  But this has to do with a terrorist plot.
[17:54.980 --> 17:57.060]  You know, all this is based on reality, just so you know.
[17:57.060 --> 18:05.200]  A terrorist plot having to do with crashing over 200 airplanes at the same time, or at least, you know, on the same day.
[18:05.200 --> 18:13.920]  So, basically, according to this summary, the Department of Homeland Security brings this hacker, this computer genius, an emergency.
[18:14.140 --> 18:20.000]  There is a bug in the local airport's software, and 200 planes are going to crash if he doesn't do something.
[18:20.280 --> 18:25.380]  So, he decides that the best thing to do is reboot from a backup version.
[18:25.720 --> 18:29.480]  Yes, that's the actual super elite high-tech thing he is doing.
[18:29.780 --> 18:31.420]  But where is the backup?
[18:31.740 --> 18:33.960]  It turns out every plane has one.
[18:33.960 --> 18:39.400]  And if only they could download it from one of the planes, everybody could land, and nobody would crash.
[18:39.800 --> 18:42.280]  But the only way to get that backup...
[18:43.140 --> 18:44.740]  And this is just insane.
[18:45.040 --> 18:55.180]  The only way to get that backup is by using an Ethernet cable dangling out of the bottom of the airplane and plugging it into a laptop of a car that's speeding underneath that airplane.
[18:55.700 --> 18:56.100]  Yeah.
[18:57.580 --> 18:59.440]  She goes on to say, yeah, you think that's ridiculous?
[18:59.600 --> 19:02.200]  It's not, because they already tried a Wi-Fi connection, and it didn't work.
[19:02.200 --> 19:05.720]  So, obviously, the next thing is the Ethernet cable dangling out.
[19:05.880 --> 19:10.600]  And you see this guy climbing out of the airplane, literally dangling the cable down while...
[19:10.600 --> 19:15.740]  And fortunately, fortunately, the car had a roof that could pop open, so they could...
[19:16.320 --> 19:17.760]  And they almost lost the laptop, too.
[19:17.820 --> 19:18.960]  That was really kind of scary.
[19:19.160 --> 19:21.240]  The laptop almost went flying away with the airplane.
[19:21.240 --> 19:27.000]  But the weird thing is that they say that every airplane had a backup in the first place.
[19:27.140 --> 19:33.000]  So, why couldn't they just use the backup copies that were on the airplanes?
[19:33.180 --> 19:38.080]  Or why couldn't they wait for that other plane to land and plug in like a normal person into the bottom of an airplane?
[19:38.760 --> 19:44.060]  I'm no aviation expert, but I did see this clip after reading the article you just read.
[19:44.800 --> 19:47.340]  And it seems to me that if you can get...
[19:47.340 --> 19:59.460]  If you have enough control over the airplane to fly it, you know, like exactly 10 meters above the runway at exactly the speed of a car below it, you can probably land the thing as well.
[19:59.560 --> 20:00.580]  You would think that.
[20:00.700 --> 20:01.240]  You would think that.
[20:01.240 --> 20:11.360]  But in this day and age where nobody knows what technology does and everybody is just basically afraid of hackers, yeah, what you might assume is not necessarily the truth.
[20:11.540 --> 20:13.180]  Bernie, I imagine you've seen this by now.
[20:13.420 --> 20:14.580]  I did not see that.
[20:14.700 --> 20:15.460]  Oh, you have to.
[20:15.660 --> 20:25.500]  It sounds kind of like the in-air refueling that the military does, where they like dangle a fuel hose from one plane into another plane.
[20:26.660 --> 20:28.460]  But this is just ridiculous.
[20:29.080 --> 20:39.000]  Well, someone actually had to write this and sell this to the network and have it accepted and have actors portray it without breaking up into hysterical laughter.
[20:40.240 --> 20:48.760]  I just... it shows very clearly how out of touch with any kind of reality some of these programs are.
[20:50.160 --> 20:52.060]  It's funny, but it's also sad.
[20:52.280 --> 20:56.800]  I mean, I do think, like, our system is broken, let's restore it from a backdrop in a known good state.
[20:56.800 --> 20:57.840]  I think that's a good plan.
[20:57.840 --> 21:05.360]  It's just keeping the backups only accessible by flying Ethernet cord, where things maybe went a little awry.
[21:05.400 --> 21:06.720]  But the thing, I still don't understand.
[21:06.740 --> 21:07.540]  I didn't watch the whole episode.
[21:07.680 --> 21:08.900]  Maybe there's something hidden in there.
[21:09.040 --> 21:12.980]  But if every plane had it, why didn't the planes just use the copies they already had?
[21:13.100 --> 21:16.300]  And, yeah, you know, you can land airplanes without software.
[21:16.300 --> 21:17.500]  It is possible.
[21:17.660 --> 21:19.040]  It's possible to override these things.
[21:19.280 --> 21:22.260]  Unless you're a hacker and you somehow override the override.
[21:22.560 --> 21:24.960]  And I guess anything is possible then.
[21:24.960 --> 21:25.940]  And that's what we see.
[21:26.080 --> 21:28.300]  We see this not in fiction.
[21:28.300 --> 21:30.840]  We see this in the news constantly.
[21:31.440 --> 21:33.400]  The threat that hackers pose.
[21:33.820 --> 21:42.920]  Well, of course, we talked about the celebrity nude photos that are appearing every place and plaguing the nation and plaguing the world.
[21:42.920 --> 21:47.460]  The latest one had to do with the actress Emma Watson.
[21:47.620 --> 21:51.360]  Emma Watson threatened with nude photo leak after speaking out about feminism.
[21:51.680 --> 21:58.800]  Articles about how these evil hackers took exception to an actress speaking out against sexism.
[21:58.920 --> 22:10.300]  And so they are threatening her with leaking these nude photographs that somehow got leaked from the cloud because they were on her phone and they wound up in the cloud.
[22:10.420 --> 22:11.060]  Something like that.
[22:11.060 --> 22:13.900]  But it turns out, it turns out that was a hoax.
[22:14.080 --> 22:15.180]  That whole thing was a hoax.
[22:15.300 --> 22:22.800]  The threat to release the nude photos of Emma Watson was an attempt to start a viral marketing campaign to shutter the site 4chan.
[22:23.420 --> 22:25.160]  Yeah, this is like a soap opera here.
[22:25.300 --> 22:33.100]  After her impassioned speech for gender equality last weekend at the United Nations, Watson faced backlash, including a threat to leak alleged nude photos of the star.
[22:33.100 --> 22:48.900]  Business Insider reported that an anonymous 4chan user had posted a countdown timer with a picture of the Harry Potter actress wiping away a tear, hinting that she could become the next star to have her iCloud hacked and personal photos dispersed for the world to see.
[22:48.900 --> 22:57.980]  As we all know, Jennifer Lawrence, Kim Kardashian, Gabriel Union are among the celebrities recently to have private intimate photos splashed across the internet.
[22:57.980 --> 23:03.740]  And the 4chan site is where the hacked nude photos of these other female stars initially appeared.
[23:04.200 --> 23:17.640]  On Wednesday, the site mentioned in the posting, Emma, you are next dot com, was redirecting to the company, Rantic Marketing, with the message, hashtag shut down 4chan.
[23:19.180 --> 23:26.460]  Yeah, there's also a letter to President Barack Obama that reads, We have been hired by celebrity publicists to bring this disgusting issue to attention.
[23:26.700 --> 23:33.960]  The recent 4chan celebrity nude leaks in the past two months have been an invasion of privacy and is also a clear indication that the internet needs to be censored.
[23:34.200 --> 23:42.400]  Every Facebook, like, share, and Twitter mention will count as a social signature and will be one step closer to shutting down 4chan.org.
[23:42.860 --> 23:47.640]  Like, this sounds as evil as ISIS and as unrealistic as well.
[23:48.040 --> 23:59.560]  It's... I mean, these people are going around threatening actresses with hacking their nude photos and then turning out to be some kind of lobbying group that is supposedly protecting their rights.
[23:59.560 --> 24:01.640]  The whole thing is completely insane.
[24:01.740 --> 24:01.900]  Mike.
[24:02.540 --> 24:04.080]  Was that a direct quote?
[24:04.840 --> 24:06.440]  Yes, what I just read was a direct quote.
[24:06.500 --> 24:07.460]  It sounds like a parody.
[24:07.800 --> 24:08.280]  It does, doesn't it?
[24:08.340 --> 24:09.100]  Yeah, that's what I mean.
[24:09.200 --> 24:10.460]  This whole thing sounds like a parody.
[24:10.460 --> 24:11.280]  Are you sure it's not?
[24:11.280 --> 24:12.400]  Well, I don't know.
[24:13.060 --> 24:14.260]  I suppose it could be.
[24:14.400 --> 24:17.220]  But, you know, reading the media, I got this story off of CNN.
[24:17.880 --> 24:19.800]  You're going to have to wait a long time for them to figure it out.
[24:20.100 --> 24:20.300]  Yeah.
[24:20.440 --> 24:21.380]  And right now, that's all I got.
[24:21.820 --> 24:22.180]  So...
[24:22.180 --> 24:25.940]  It's not... I mean, it's a little bit difficult, but it's not super difficult to fool CNN.
[24:26.200 --> 24:27.800]  I just wish this story would go away.
[24:28.000 --> 24:30.100]  You know, who cares about nude photos?
[24:30.480 --> 24:31.280]  It's ridiculous.
[24:31.580 --> 24:32.740]  Apparently, a lot of people do.
[24:32.940 --> 24:34.040]  Well, yeah, but you know what?
[24:34.040 --> 24:38.160]  It's a lot of publicity for people that were kind of sick of all the publicity they get anyway.
[24:38.160 --> 24:43.680]  And if you don't want your nude photos being spread around, don't put them on your phone and have your phone go to the cloud.
[24:43.740 --> 24:44.040]  All right?
[24:44.440 --> 24:46.380]  That's going to happen at some point.
[24:47.600 --> 24:49.180]  But it's all people talk about.
[24:49.260 --> 24:52.140]  And there are so many other issues that get ignored as a result.
[24:52.320 --> 24:54.220]  And hopefully, we'll get to talk about some of those.
[24:54.340 --> 25:01.240]  Apple reports that they've finally fixed the vulnerability that let these photos be taken without the consent of the people who took them.
[25:01.240 --> 25:08.020]  I made the mistake of going to a site called The Hollywood Gossip, only because Google told me to go there because it was an interesting story.
[25:08.240 --> 25:10.040]  Since when do you do everything Google tells you?
[25:10.100 --> 25:13.020]  I just tried an experiment to see what would happen, and it wasn't a good idea.
[25:13.820 --> 25:17.100]  This article was called Jenny McCarthy Nude Photos Leak Online.
[25:17.240 --> 25:19.400]  Yes, she's been hacked, too.
[25:20.000 --> 25:22.820]  I was just looking at their perception of what a hacker is.
[25:22.820 --> 25:32.480]  And by going to this site, I wound up with five windows opening with all kinds of ads and printing 42 pages when I just wanted to print the three-page article.
[25:33.500 --> 25:35.200]  Yeah, never again, never again.
[25:35.440 --> 25:40.360]  So they're blaming hackers for all this theoretical nonsense that's going on.
[25:40.440 --> 25:42.040]  And that's what you see everywhere.
[25:42.400 --> 25:43.060]  Here's an article.
[25:43.440 --> 25:46.360]  Hackers could put the brakes on growth of driverless cars.
[25:46.720 --> 25:47.820]  Yeah, what we're all looking forward to.
[25:47.900 --> 25:52.280]  We're all looking forward to all those cars driving around with no drivers, but hackers are going to ruin it by hacking them.
[25:52.280 --> 25:53.980]  And making them dangerous.
[25:54.620 --> 25:56.560]  You look at any bit of technology.
[25:57.100 --> 26:00.680]  Anti-Christian Islamic hackers target actor Kirk Cameron.
[26:01.160 --> 26:03.540]  Yeah, the nicest guy in the world.
[26:03.740 --> 26:06.620]  The born-again Christian guy just wants to convert everybody to Christianity.
[26:07.020 --> 26:13.440]  You know, and these nasty Islamic hackers, they are targeting him with a viral attack against his new film, Saving Christmas.
[26:14.000 --> 26:16.480]  Yeah, they literally are destroying Christmas.
[26:17.980 --> 26:19.200]  Here's a story.
[26:19.380 --> 26:20.320]  This also sounds like a parody.
[26:20.320 --> 26:22.960]  This poor dead girl whose Facebook page was hacked.
[26:23.340 --> 26:24.840]  Yeah, there's that.
[26:25.400 --> 26:27.040]  It's just... it never stops.
[26:27.180 --> 26:31.660]  And if you watch the news, you'll see how the Home Depot hack...
[26:31.660 --> 26:33.320]  Yeah, that was hackers that did that.
[26:33.400 --> 26:34.800]  It wasn't bad security at Home Depot.
[26:35.100 --> 26:39.440]  It was evil hackers stealing credit card numbers because that's what hackers do.
[26:39.520 --> 26:41.020]  Hackers are always the threat.
[26:41.020 --> 26:53.260]  Oh, and on top of that, Home Depot isn't good at computers, and so they hired an ex-hacker or saboteur to be the architect of their system.
[26:53.340 --> 26:54.160]  Are they not the same thing, Kyle?
[26:54.200 --> 27:04.020]  So there's hackers attacking them, there's hackers that they accidentally hired, and it's just a big, scary hacker storm.
[27:04.880 --> 27:06.600]  Hacker-nado, if you will.
[27:06.960 --> 27:07.760]  Hacker-nado.
[27:07.760 --> 27:09.300]  All right, that's interesting.
[27:09.820 --> 27:19.380]  Well, now, this Home Depot thing, the Home Depot breach, as I like to refer to it, they say it's affecting 56 million credit cards.
[27:19.520 --> 27:21.200]  56 million credit cards.
[27:21.420 --> 27:23.040]  That's a lot of credit cards.
[27:23.320 --> 27:36.300]  And they said they were likely compromised in a cyber attack at its stores, suggesting the hacking attack at the home improvement chain was larger than last year's unprecedented breach at Target.
[27:37.520 --> 27:49.200]  So, you know, that to me, the story there is that, what kind of security do you not have for that many credit cards to be compromised and not detected by your organization?
[27:49.280 --> 27:51.180]  That is the question we should be answering.
[27:51.340 --> 27:54.700]  Anybody can do this with the right tools, the right software.
[27:55.260 --> 27:56.220]  You don't have to be...
[27:56.220 --> 27:58.260]  A hacker can figure it out, a hacker can explain it.
[27:58.260 --> 28:12.420]  A hacker might go on television and try and explain it to newscasters, but this is not what the hacker community is about, stealing 56 million credit card numbers and engaging in a massive spending spree.
[28:12.420 --> 28:20.720]  I had a lot of conversations like this, actually, one or two specifically at Maker Faire, people asking me the question which we posed last week.
[28:20.780 --> 28:23.840]  And I had some pretty heated discussions.
[28:24.140 --> 28:26.260]  You were being interrogated by one guy, I remember.
[28:26.260 --> 28:26.600]  I did.
[28:26.720 --> 28:29.120]  I got pressed pretty hard over it.
[28:29.200 --> 28:37.720]  And he was at one point asking me if I personally could get into his wireless, whatever, connectivity at his house or something.
[28:37.720 --> 28:45.160]  Really a personal thing for him, and then a personal thing to be confronting me over my level of skill or not.
[28:45.440 --> 29:02.460]  And it was just really hard to kind of pull back from that very specific question as he was conflating it and say, like, look, well, there are a lot of different tools out there that I would use if that was something I was interested in.
[29:02.620 --> 29:04.460]  So could I do it immediately?
[29:04.460 --> 29:07.880]  No, maybe it's not something I'm interested in, but could I figure it out?
[29:08.040 --> 29:13.000]  Yeah, probably, with the right spirit and perhaps if I cared.
[29:14.200 --> 29:16.620]  And I would use many different tools.
[29:16.800 --> 29:18.380]  And he asked me if...
[29:18.380 --> 29:24.760]  So that program like Nmap or Wireshark, that's from the dark internet, right?
[29:24.760 --> 29:27.260]  Or from the file sharing or something.
[29:27.260 --> 29:30.380]  Like, I was getting terrorist software tools.
[29:30.400 --> 29:31.880]  And I was like, no, man, look.
[29:32.060 --> 29:35.640]  It's like security auditing is very objective, right?
[29:35.760 --> 29:37.680]  Either something's working or it's not.
[29:38.200 --> 29:39.400]  And there's logs.
[29:39.560 --> 29:42.020]  There's things about it you have to know.
[29:42.020 --> 29:49.200]  And many different people, whether they're securing their own system or testing another system for another company, they're going to use these tools.
[29:49.200 --> 30:00.000]  And I got to tell you, friend, there's a lot of people in very large companies that are paid very well to hack their own stuff or hack other departments and other parts of organizations.
[30:00.280 --> 30:01.360]  Not in Home Depot, there aren't.
[30:01.560 --> 30:02.620]  No, not enough, clearly.
[30:02.940 --> 30:03.880]  Clearly not enough.
[30:04.160 --> 30:09.720]  What percentage of the total number of credit cards in the United States is however many millions, you said?
[30:09.940 --> 30:10.540]  Well, I don't know.
[30:10.640 --> 30:11.280]  I don't know how many...
[30:11.280 --> 30:12.240]  That's got to be like...
[30:12.240 --> 30:13.280]  Would it be half?
[30:13.460 --> 30:15.040]  What if there was 100 million credit cards?
[30:15.120 --> 30:16.520]  There's got to be like 250 million credit cards.
[30:16.520 --> 30:20.340]  Our friends on the Darknet can tell us exactly how many credit cards there are as of 8 p.m.
[30:20.480 --> 30:20.680]  All right.
[30:21.080 --> 30:21.440]  Darknet.
[30:21.560 --> 30:22.180]  Call them later.
[30:22.660 --> 30:23.020]  Darknet.
[30:23.280 --> 30:24.200]  How many credit cards?
[30:24.320 --> 30:25.500]  It's just amazing to me.
[30:25.840 --> 30:28.040]  You know, we've been doing this show now for a long time.
[30:28.160 --> 30:29.500]  We've been publishing the magazine for a long time.
[30:29.500 --> 30:31.040]  I've been involved in this world forever.
[30:32.240 --> 30:35.200]  And so many misconceptions still exist.
[30:35.640 --> 30:38.060]  And they just seem to get bigger and bigger.
[30:38.880 --> 30:39.600]  And it's...
[30:39.600 --> 30:40.600]  You know, we laugh at it.
[30:40.740 --> 30:41.120]  We laugh at it.
[30:41.180 --> 30:43.160]  But a lot of people suffer as a result.
[30:43.280 --> 30:49.720]  A lot of people are viewed with suspicion or punished for saying, hey, by the way, you have no password on your router, something like that.
[30:49.960 --> 30:54.160]  You know, you become the problem because you're telling them their world is not perfect.
[30:54.980 --> 30:56.760]  And we need to fight back more.
[30:57.000 --> 30:58.700]  You know, we've been fighting back for a long time.
[30:58.800 --> 31:02.680]  But this silliness has to be confronted and exposed.
[31:02.960 --> 31:04.920]  And here's some more silliness.
[31:05.060 --> 31:05.660]  This is something...
[31:05.660 --> 31:06.640]  It's a little bit unrelated.
[31:06.640 --> 31:09.020]  But I just saw this before I came in.
[31:09.180 --> 31:09.700]  And it just...
[31:09.700 --> 31:11.840]  It's another one of these crazy things.
[31:12.320 --> 31:12.720]  Apparently...
[31:12.720 --> 31:14.020]  And Bernie, you'll take an interest in this.
[31:14.220 --> 31:18.900]  Apparently, a judge says it's okay to serve legal papers via Facebook now.
[31:19.720 --> 31:26.540]  And he said this is true because people use Facebook and they might not be reached by going to their homes.
[31:26.780 --> 31:27.660]  So you could...
[31:27.660 --> 31:35.120]  You have to, I guess, check Facebook all the time now because you might be subpoenaed or you might have some kind of legal notice just dumped on your timeline.
[31:36.380 --> 31:46.520]  I think this is the result of people in power, namely judges, who don't understand technology and think this is an effective way of living lives.
[31:46.680 --> 31:47.920]  I think this is great.
[31:48.820 --> 31:50.240]  You're going to serve some papers on people?
[31:50.520 --> 31:50.920]  I've done...
[31:50.920 --> 31:54.600]  As someone who's done process service, I know exactly what that is.
[31:54.700 --> 31:55.500]  And that's kind of cool.
[31:55.660 --> 31:58.280]  I think people on Facebook who...
[31:58.280 --> 32:00.080]  If that's the only place people...
[32:00.080 --> 32:04.200]  Where you rear your head, perhaps you should get process served on Facebook.
[32:04.200 --> 32:05.900]  Okay, well, first of all, I'll tell you what will happen.
[32:06.160 --> 32:07.580]  It's like getting dumped over SMS.
[32:07.920 --> 32:16.280]  As soon as somebody does that, what is the person going to do when they are confronted and they're asked, why didn't you respond when you were legally served?
[32:16.300 --> 32:18.700]  They're going to say, my Facebook was hacked.
[32:18.900 --> 32:20.100]  That's what they're going to say.
[32:20.220 --> 32:23.520]  That's always the defense when you get caught at something with your own account.
[32:23.520 --> 32:24.160]  I was hacked.
[32:24.280 --> 32:24.940]  Someone else did it.
[32:25.440 --> 32:26.160]  It's just...
[32:26.160 --> 32:27.320]  It's never going to stop.
[32:27.320 --> 32:33.740]  And really, you know, when I was served with papers for the MPAA lawsuit, at least they came to the door.
[32:34.200 --> 32:35.880]  I wasn't there, but they came to the door.
[32:36.040 --> 32:36.600]  They pitched it in.
[32:36.820 --> 32:38.480]  You know, it landed inside the house.
[32:39.160 --> 32:39.960]  But that's...
[32:39.960 --> 32:42.440]  You know, you have to make sure there's an actual tangible copy.
[32:42.540 --> 32:44.240]  Otherwise, all kinds of excuses can be made.
[32:44.500 --> 32:44.880]  Emmanuel.
[32:45.080 --> 32:45.660]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[32:45.860 --> 32:51.480]  It's worth noting that this judge was a Staten Island support magistrate named Gregory Gleidman.
[32:51.480 --> 32:52.640]  He's not a...
[32:52.640 --> 32:55.880]  This is not like a Supreme Court justice unanimous ruling.
[32:56.100 --> 33:03.560]  So this is hardly binding on anybody but that tiny little Staten Island magistrate court.
[33:03.720 --> 33:05.900]  Well, it's within our listening area, so...
[33:05.900 --> 33:06.580]  Part of it is, yeah.
[33:06.640 --> 33:07.420]  But I just think it's...
[33:07.420 --> 33:18.400]  Our listeners should know that this is not the law of the land, nor would it, I think, pass constitutional muster in any court higher than this one, which is just about every other court in the land.
[33:18.400 --> 33:24.880]  I mean, I haven't read the case, but I suspect it's more subtle than the news media is making it out to be.
[33:25.100 --> 33:31.280]  I doubt it's a general ruling that serving all papers by Facebook is acceptable in all circumstances.
[33:31.680 --> 33:51.100]  But if you reasonably suspect, you know, if you reasonably know that the person is reachable through Facebook and is not reachable through other means, and you have reason to believe that the I was hacked defense is not credible, then maybe there are some circumstances in which this is okay.
[33:51.920 --> 33:59.700]  There are obviously many circumstances in which it is not okay, and without knowing the facts of this particular case, I hesitate to say...
[33:59.700 --> 34:09.040]  You know, as someone who has attempted to use Facebook a number of times, you know, just for various reasons, I got to say the interface is just so poorly designed, it's hard to find things in the first place.
[34:09.040 --> 34:18.820]  People send messages, and it doesn't show up where you expect it to in the timeline, and there are so many ways you can miss something on that system.
[34:19.020 --> 34:31.400]  So to say that that is equivalent to actually serving something to someone in person, having a signature, having some kind of verification, it's a height of absurdity, I think.
[34:31.640 --> 34:39.640]  I'm not saying it'd be the only way, but I'm thinking as an expansion of the existing methods that are used in process service, why not?
[34:39.980 --> 34:46.460]  I mean, people use an ordinate amount of time of their lives on Facebook anyway, so...
[34:46.460 --> 34:50.580]  What also means you won't have process servers anymore, you'll have computers doing it instead.
[34:50.900 --> 34:51.640]  Pretty much, yeah.
[34:51.760 --> 34:53.720]  So that puts another line of work out of business.
[34:54.380 --> 34:58.160]  Okay, Bernie, you sent this article, which I thought was kind of interesting.
[34:58.240 --> 35:03.780]  Actually, it's more of an editorial, but it's not at all opinionated, it's pretty factual, I think.
[35:03.980 --> 35:06.460]  And we're just going to try and get through it.
[35:06.700 --> 35:12.960]  And if anyone has any objections to any of the facts that are presented, please speak up, let us know.
[35:13.460 --> 35:24.040]  An incredible thing happened in the recent reply comment period regarding the Federal Communications Commission proposal to regulate the internet like old-fashioned monopoly telephone service.
[35:24.640 --> 35:29.000]  The side telling the agency not to regulate carried the day.
[35:29.180 --> 35:43.960]  The radical left, demanding federal regulatory control of the building blocks of internet brought all the usual hype and hoopla and had free-spending corporate backers in Google and Netflix who want regulators to force you to pay the cost of their downstream bandwidth so they won't have to.
[35:44.200 --> 35:53.480]  This campaign by liberal special interests like MoveOn and the Sierra Club converted 40,000 websites into campaign advertisements urging visitors to support internet regulation.
[35:53.780 --> 35:57.240]  The websites participated in a stunt called Internet Slowdown Day.
[35:57.600 --> 36:05.640]  These sites lied to visitors, claiming that without unprecedented new government regulation, broadband providers would start slowing down and degrading service.
[36:05.880 --> 36:10.000]  Of course, such a thing has never happened, even without politicians in charge of the internet.
[36:10.280 --> 36:17.060]  If a broadband provider ever tried such a stupid move, they'd lose customers in droves and the board of directors would fire the CEO.
[36:17.460 --> 36:23.820]  The very fact that these sites had to fake a slowdown should serve as proof that liberals are engaging in pure fantasy.
[36:23.820 --> 36:28.300]  I see a number of people with their heads in their hands and banging the table.
[36:28.760 --> 36:30.720]  And Bernie, I sensed you're doing something similar.
[36:31.160 --> 36:36.260]  Yeah, I did that as soon as I read it and I had to forward it to you guys because I didn't know where to start.
[36:36.400 --> 36:38.360]  There were so many things wrong with this commentary.
[36:39.020 --> 36:39.380]  Factually...
[36:39.380 --> 36:40.160]  You've got to start somewhere.
[36:40.520 --> 36:40.840]  Right.
[36:41.200 --> 36:51.780]  Well, first of all, he said nothing of the sort has ever happened where an internet service provider has... let me see what he says.
[36:55.500 --> 37:03.360]  Of course, such a thing has never happened when he's talking about broadband providers slowing down and degrading service.
[37:03.720 --> 37:07.640]  Comcast has been caught red-handed doing this before.
[37:07.740 --> 37:09.020]  In fact, there was a court case about it.
[37:09.120 --> 37:11.760]  It was proven that a group tested this.
[37:11.760 --> 37:13.500]  This was quite a few years ago, remember?
[37:13.920 --> 37:16.700]  So this is not the first... and it has happened again since.
[37:16.980 --> 37:23.420]  So for him to say that such a thing has never happened and say, of course such a thing has never happened, it's just flat out not true.
[37:23.900 --> 37:25.900]  Well, here's what concerns me.
[37:26.000 --> 37:31.680]  This piece was written by one Phil Kirpin and appeared on a site called townhall.com.
[37:32.320 --> 37:34.680]  He says, we rang an alarm bell.
[37:34.740 --> 37:35.940]  We rang an alarm bell loud.
[37:36.120 --> 37:39.280]  We launched stopinternetregulation.org.
[37:39.320 --> 37:45.320]  It's interesting that that's how they're referring to the fight to save net neutrality is by having internet regulation.
[37:46.120 --> 37:55.000]  We launched stopinternetregulation.org to mobilize comments from regular Americans as opposed to... I don't know what other kind of Americans.
[37:55.260 --> 37:59.980]  Regular Americans who oppose the internet being reduced to a government-controlled public utility.
[38:00.140 --> 38:03.220]  You say things like that and you get people saying, no, I don't want that.
[38:03.640 --> 38:05.420]  It's a great way to manipulate people.
[38:05.480 --> 38:09.320]  But here's what concerns me, and I'd like to know if there's any truth whatsoever in this.
[38:09.440 --> 38:23.480]  When all was said and done, the huge liberal pro-regulation campaign, yeah, I know all that's not true, which dubbed itself Battle for the Net, claimed they sent 777,364 comments to the FCC.
[38:24.700 --> 38:28.580]  Stopinternetregulation.org in just three weeks, beat them by more than 30,000 comments.
[38:28.700 --> 38:31.040]  Our total was 808,363.
[38:31.240 --> 38:32.620]  We won the battle for the net.
[38:33.220 --> 38:33.500]  All right.
[38:34.300 --> 38:37.380]  Is anybody able to verify any of that?
[38:39.020 --> 38:40.480]  Do those numbers mean anything?
[38:41.360 --> 38:42.160]  I don't know.
[38:42.340 --> 38:43.900]  I'm just... I was struck.
[38:44.040 --> 38:48.420]  Is public utility a dirty word in parts of America these days?
[38:48.540 --> 38:49.120]  Oh, it could be, sure.
[38:49.340 --> 38:54.560]  I want to know if those letters were form letters or actual individual comments.
[38:54.920 --> 38:57.760]  Well, how many on either side were actual individual comments?
[38:57.840 --> 39:11.200]  It strikes me, from what I was hearing, the comments to the FCC website were simply flooding it and almost taking it offline, not intentionally, but because of the incredible amount of feedback.
[39:11.680 --> 39:20.900]  And from what I was led to believe, the vast majority was against what was being proposed to get rid of net neutrality.
[39:21.740 --> 39:24.400]  But these guys are saying something completely different.
[39:24.440 --> 39:34.940]  So I just think, you know, when you present a fact like that, it needs to be dismissed or verified quickly because it's an either yes or no thing.
[39:35.420 --> 39:39.140]  And this is the first... when you forwarded that article, Bernie, that's the first I saw of this.
[39:39.260 --> 39:41.040]  That's the first I heard of that organization.
[39:41.340 --> 39:41.640]  Me too.
[39:41.720 --> 39:50.100]  I think it could just be... this could just be a whitewash of some kind, or not a whitewash, but I mean, it's just the opposite of astroturfing.
[39:50.260 --> 39:51.380]  It's wildly misleading.
[39:51.660 --> 39:51.960]  Uh-huh.
[39:51.960 --> 39:52.600]  That's for sure.
[39:52.780 --> 39:52.940]  Yeah.
[39:53.240 --> 39:53.440]  Okay.
[39:53.520 --> 39:57.440]  Well, if we can get any kind of confirmation, we will update people on this.
[39:57.760 --> 40:09.860]  If, in fact, stopinternetregulation.org did come up with nearly a million independent individual signatures in favor of dismantling net neutrality, I'd like to know about that.
[40:11.220 --> 40:11.660]  Okay.
[40:11.660 --> 40:16.580]  We're going to be taking phone calls, 212-209-2900 in just a moment or two.
[40:17.500 --> 40:27.480]  This reader writes in, Joe, I believe, writes in, Baltimore Joe from IRC, to tell us something about the word hacker.
[40:28.240 --> 40:32.400]  Hacker is a word derived from Spanish.
[40:33.280 --> 40:34.860]  H-A-C-E-R.
[40:34.980 --> 40:35.900]  How would you pronounce that, Mike?
[40:36.160 --> 40:36.440]  Hacer.
[40:36.980 --> 40:37.600]  Say that again.
[40:37.880 --> 40:38.260]  Hacer.
[40:38.460 --> 40:38.780]  All right.
[40:38.860 --> 40:39.520]  I like what you say that.
[40:39.740 --> 40:41.840]  It's one of the most versatile verbs in Spanish.
[40:42.000 --> 40:42.720]  It finds many uses.
[40:42.980 --> 40:46.640]  Generally, it's translated as to make or to do.
[40:46.640 --> 40:51.800]  So, it kind of ties in with the whole maker world as well as the whole hacker world.
[40:51.960 --> 40:55.600]  Thus, hackers, according to Joe, are roughly makers slash doers.
[40:56.160 --> 40:57.740]  But that translation is not perfect.
[40:57.900 --> 41:00.780]  The exact definition is familiar only to hackers themselves.
[41:01.140 --> 41:03.360]  So, thank you, Joe, for sharing that with us.
[41:03.560 --> 41:05.820]  I don't know that I believe that theory, but...
[41:05.820 --> 41:06.820]  You don't believe what theory?
[41:07.120 --> 41:09.660]  That the English word hacker comes from the Spanish.
[41:11.860 --> 41:15.860]  Well, it's... Okay, we can trace the etymology of the word, I suppose.
[41:15.860 --> 41:24.360]  I think the idea is that it's one form of the etymology you could go with as far as trying links between the two communities.
[41:24.480 --> 41:25.120]  I thought it was good.
[41:25.200 --> 41:25.880]  It was a good attempt.
[41:26.240 --> 41:34.920]  I always find it funny when a website or a news site gets a story wrong, and as a result of getting it wrong, it becomes a story.
[41:35.800 --> 41:44.120]  The site Gothamist.com published an article talking about a time capsule that is scheduled to be opened.
[41:44.460 --> 41:45.440]  And it reads like this.
[41:45.580 --> 41:50.320]  It's an article from the New York Times of January 28th, 1917.
[41:50.880 --> 42:02.360]  It says, the unborn editors of the New York Times of 2015 have been invited to attend on the second Saturday in September of that year, the opening of the Louis H.
[42:02.600 --> 42:14.100]  Eisenhower box at Ashburnham, Massachusetts, which was placed in the vault of the town treasurer in 1915 with instructions that it not be opened for 100 years.
[42:14.580 --> 42:23.100]  And, of course, the people at Gothamist were basically saying, wow, what's going to happen this weekend when that date comes up?
[42:23.200 --> 42:28.080]  And, of course, somebody didn't do proofreading because it's not 2015, it's 2014.
[42:28.660 --> 42:31.120]  And so they caused all this furor for nothing.
[42:31.120 --> 42:32.100]  We have to wait another year.
[42:32.180 --> 42:35.020]  But now everyone's talking about the actual time capsule.
[42:35.340 --> 42:37.520]  And people are spreading this article around.
[42:38.180 --> 42:46.040]  What's going to happen now is there's going to be a whole lot more people up there to open it in a year when we find out what's in there.
[42:46.420 --> 42:48.400]  So, yeah, there's that to worry about.
[42:48.420 --> 42:48.960]  That's really cool.
[42:49.040 --> 42:56.200]  It reminds me of going to a state capitol when I was younger, and they have one that's going to be open in the, I think, 2040 timeframe.
[42:56.620 --> 42:58.900]  Well, you know, there's also... I remember as a kid, that was a big deal.
[42:58.900 --> 43:13.180]  There's also a time capsule in Central Park under the obelisk, which I believe is the oldest structure in New York, because it was imported, and it comes from the BC years.
[43:13.400 --> 43:17.760]  So, it's not the first structure in New York, but it's the oldest.
[43:18.000 --> 43:18.620]  It's the oldest.
[43:18.760 --> 43:19.240]  It was brought here.
[43:19.240 --> 43:21.220]  It was brought here, and there's a time capsule there.
[43:21.580 --> 43:23.360]  It's 3,500 years old.
[43:24.080 --> 43:25.000]  That's an old structure.
[43:25.000 --> 43:26.360]  That's pretty old for New York.
[43:27.020 --> 43:28.820]  So, there is a time capsule there.
[43:28.860 --> 43:34.560]  I'm not sure when that one was buried, but that's something to think about.
[43:34.720 --> 43:37.540]  Okay, 212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[43:37.600 --> 43:44.820]  If you have any thoughts on hacking, on the media, on anything that we've said, anything that you'd like to get across.
[43:44.940 --> 43:49.400]  I should also point out our email address is OTH at 2600.com.
[43:49.500 --> 43:56.360]  You can write to us with any of your thoughts and theories and comments and suggestions and various things like that.
[43:56.740 --> 43:58.420]  Shall we move to the phones?
[43:59.280 --> 43:59.720]  Let's.
[43:59.820 --> 44:00.600]  Let's take a phone call.
[44:00.660 --> 44:01.000]  Good evening.
[44:01.140 --> 44:01.920]  You're on Off the Hook.
[44:01.940 --> 44:03.260]  Let me lower my radio.
[44:03.320 --> 44:04.120]  Please lower your radio.
[44:04.260 --> 44:05.420]  And I've lowered it.
[44:05.560 --> 44:16.500]  And I missed the very start of your show, so I don't know if you already mentioned this, but do you know what's on Channel 13 tonight at 9 o'clock?
[44:17.120 --> 44:18.020]  Uh, gosh.
[44:18.380 --> 44:18.800]  Uh, well.
[44:18.800 --> 44:19.640]  No, it's not gosh.
[44:19.860 --> 44:22.420]  Uh, well, there was a whole documentary on the Roosevelt's by Ken Burns.
[44:22.520 --> 44:23.460]  I think that was last week, though.
[44:23.660 --> 44:23.960]  That was last week.
[44:24.120 --> 44:24.500]  That was last week.
[44:24.500 --> 44:29.460]  Tonight is, uh, NOVA, and it's, uh, the episode is Rise of the Hackers.
[44:29.880 --> 44:30.140]  Woo-hoo!
[44:30.380 --> 44:38.720]  Scientists in the fast-paced world of cryptography work to forge unbreakable codes to keep data safe.
[44:39.180 --> 44:44.380]  Hey, I just have a comment to make, um, regarding the, uh, the HOPE conference.
[44:44.920 --> 44:47.880]  Where was the, uh, the Bell Telephone, uh, van?
[44:48.500 --> 44:56.940]  Oh, the Bell Telephone van was, was, uh, safely parked in, uh, in, uh, somewhere in the five boroughs of Manhattan after, uh, after bringing a bunch of supplies in.
[44:57.060 --> 44:58.560]  We can't leave it in front of the hotel.
[44:58.560 --> 45:02.960]  We get ticketed mercilessly, so, uh, that's why you don't see it nearly as often.
[45:03.080 --> 45:08.580]  In fact, I think this was the first, uh, event year where we didn't receive any parking violations.
[45:08.600 --> 45:09.920]  We did not get a single ticket.
[45:09.920 --> 45:23.400]  I also want to say, and I sent you guys an email, and I hope you don't mind seriously, uh, for a moment, saying that I, I thought that the, um, the 18th floor was like, like, so seriously overcrowded with people.
[45:24.060 --> 45:27.000]  I think maybe it's time to move on to another location.
[45:27.220 --> 45:31.580]  Please tell us where this other location might be, because we are, we definitely want more space.
[45:31.760 --> 45:32.660]  There's no question about that.
[45:32.800 --> 45:42.460]  On, uh, 18th, uh, Street, there's a place where, uh, I think it's called the Manhattan Pavilion, where WFMU does its annual record fair.
[45:42.740 --> 45:47.360]  It's a very large, multi, um, you know, dividable space.
[45:47.760 --> 45:51.540]  And, um, it's in between, I think, 6th and 7th Avenue.
[45:51.720 --> 45:53.340]  I think it's called the Manhattan Pavilion.
[45:53.660 --> 45:59.280]  You're thinking of the Metropolitan Pavilion, and I was actually there, uh, this weekend for, for the first time for another event.
[45:59.500 --> 46:06.220]  And, uh, it's considerably smaller than the Hotel Pennsylvania, at least the portions of it where the event I was at are.
[46:07.180 --> 46:08.700]  But, uh, but we should check it out.
[46:08.820 --> 46:10.440]  Maybe we, I didn't see the whole thing somehow.
[46:11.080 --> 46:11.660]  Please do.
[46:11.840 --> 46:18.820]  Anybody that's got ideas for, uh, different venues and stuff, we're kind of, um, going through a lot of the adulation and feedback we got.
[46:19.020 --> 46:30.500]  And, uh, well, this is when we, we start kind of, um, initially doing some site stuff and, and, and just getting a, an idea of what direction we want to go for the next event.
[46:30.500 --> 46:31.840]  And it's based on a lot of that commentary.
[46:31.960 --> 46:34.480]  So please write OTH at 2600.com.
[46:34.580 --> 46:42.200]  If you have an idea for a place or a space, keep in mind, um, we do, we probably have over 30,000 square feet for hope.
[46:42.440 --> 46:42.660]  Yeah.
[46:42.720 --> 46:45.620]  I got to walk that off and see exactly how much we have, but it's a lot.
[46:45.760 --> 46:46.480]  It's a lot.
[46:46.600 --> 46:55.440]  But the thing to remember is that the, uh, the, the speaking rooms are only so big, they're not going to get any bigger, which is why things like, like, uh, streaming are so important now.
[46:55.540 --> 47:03.520]  And our friends in Germany, they actually, uh, urge people to, to stay away and to, to watch talks from remote locations and things like that.
[47:03.620 --> 47:08.060]  We're not quite at that stage yet because we have a lot of other spaces where people can be doing other things.
[47:08.260 --> 47:20.500]  If you come to a conference just for the intent of seeing one single talk and the whole conference is going to be ruined if you don't see that one talk, then we have to advise, don't go to a conference because you might miss that talk because of crowding.
[47:20.640 --> 47:27.740]  If we had let maybe a tenth of the number of people in that room still would have been crowded and, uh, you still might've been disappointed.
[47:28.040 --> 47:32.460]  So, uh, restricting access to the entire event isn't the answer.
[47:32.580 --> 47:37.660]  Obviously when the entire event is, is getting close to full, then that's something we have to, um, uh, to work on.
[47:37.960 --> 47:44.980]  But, uh, in this particular case, having Edward Snowden as a keynote speaker, we knew there was a crowd issue and I think it was handled as well as it possibly could.
[47:45.040 --> 47:49.320]  And that's with the threat of fire marshals coming and, and, and, and shutting the whole event down.
[47:49.560 --> 47:54.120]  I think our, our, our, our attendees were very calm and, and, and respectful.
[47:54.760 --> 47:59.360]  And, um, and everybody who wanted to see the talk was able to see it in some form eventually.
[47:59.780 --> 48:01.160]  So it was a hard situation.
[48:01.340 --> 48:15.940]  Yeah, we did, we did the best we could, uh, under the circumstances and, uh, kind of, uh, uh, uh, but on, under a bit of fire from literally the, uh, fire watch and marshals, that being, uh, uh, really, uh, looming kind of situation that we were really nervous about,
[48:16.120 --> 48:22.560]  but just regardless, it would be really fantastic to get some ideas from people, um, about different sites.
[48:22.700 --> 48:36.760]  We, we just bear in mind that we have some pretty particular constraints given the amount of space we like to have, uh, accommodations being sort of desirable, um, and, and being somewhat central to, to this great city.
[48:36.860 --> 48:37.720]  I mean, why not?
[48:37.880 --> 48:41.260]  That's, that's kind of something we're really proud of as a backdrop to our event.
[48:41.420 --> 48:44.920]  So anyway, please do, um, feel free to, to comment if you know of a space.
[48:45.060 --> 48:47.480]  We're, we're certainly interested in, in, uh, checking it out.
[48:47.640 --> 48:55.200]  And anyone who wants to comment on the Hope Conference itself, feedback at hope.net is our email address there, uh, for the radio show, OTH at 2600.com.
[48:55.320 --> 48:56.940]  Hey, a bunch of phone calls fell off.
[48:56.960 --> 48:57.300]  I'm sorry.
[48:57.380 --> 48:59.400]  They only allow a few rings before they disconnect you.
[48:59.520 --> 49:01.280]  So 212-209-2900.
[49:01.460 --> 49:04.180]  We'll try and press those buttons as quickly as we possibly can.
[49:04.520 --> 49:06.800]  Um, Bernie, anything to add to what we said?
[49:08.080 --> 49:10.140]  Well, there's other news stories, but we don't have time.
[49:10.240 --> 49:11.320]  We'd like to take some listener calls.
[49:11.480 --> 49:11.640]  Yes.
[49:11.640 --> 49:12.560]  And here's one right now.
[49:12.680 --> 49:13.540]  So let's take this one.
[49:14.820 --> 49:15.560]  And good evening.
[49:15.720 --> 49:16.480]  You're on Off the Hook.
[49:17.140 --> 49:17.860]  Hey guys.
[49:18.200 --> 49:20.860]  Um, first of all, you know, it's always a pleasure to hear you guys.
[49:21.000 --> 49:21.940]  Wonderful program.
[49:22.260 --> 49:23.780]  Still buzzing off of the Hope Conference.
[49:23.940 --> 49:25.200]  I will send my feedback.
[49:25.420 --> 49:27.480]  It's busy like the average New Yorker.
[49:28.100 --> 49:31.260]  But, um, today is actually a sentimental day for me.
[49:31.400 --> 49:36.520]  My dad died earlier this year and, um, today would be his birthday.
[49:36.880 --> 49:49.160]  And in the process of being the executor to his estate, um, you know, I realized that basically the society itself presumes you're an illegitimate individual.
[49:50.080 --> 50:00.580]  And in the, at the same time, you're supposed to presuppose the total legitimacy of whatever official body, whether it be a bank or a government agency or what have you.
[50:00.760 --> 50:13.160]  And I just realized it might not be a profound realization for you guys, but I just realized that I was going through this whole just painstaking process of being the executor and all the paperwork and all the people who feel they're entitled to, you know,
[50:13.600 --> 50:17.020]  social security numbers and private codes and so on and so on.
[50:17.260 --> 50:39.860]  The whole, the, the, the, the stage has been set for precisely what Edward Snowden is, has revealed and, and Thomas Drake and others that, you know, this last technical leap forward is really a, just a final technical moment in something that's been building up for maybe hundreds of years,
[50:39.880 --> 50:41.940]  maybe going back to the origins of capitalism.
[50:43.840 --> 50:44.320]  Interesting.
[50:44.700 --> 50:48.380]  And just think maybe that's like, it's just a beta version anyway, right?
[50:48.480 --> 50:49.540]  Where are we going ultimately?
[50:49.760 --> 50:53.120]  It'll all be refined and redone and, uh...
[50:53.120 --> 51:13.040]  I mean, yeah, that, that's basically my point that, you know, in dealing with these technical, like the simple act of, for example, saying, you know, I have to keep an inventory of every asset that my father had or what, you know, what, whatever life insurance check I may receive or whatever's in his bank account or his joint bank account with his wife.
[51:13.220 --> 51:17.420]  And I'm sending this information to people who I don't know.
[51:17.620 --> 51:18.800]  I don't know them from Adam.
[51:19.160 --> 51:34.060]  They could be ideologically opposed to my existence, but I'm supposed to simply say, well, you're the boss, you're the authority, I'm sure you're totally legitimate people in your confirming whether I'm a legitimate individual or not.
[51:34.420 --> 51:34.460]  Interesting.
[51:34.980 --> 51:42.140]  One time I was waiting at the bank, and after giving them all this ID and all this runaround, they said, oh, well, can you give us another bank statement?
[51:42.140 --> 51:44.460]  I said, man, I've been waiting here for an hour.
[51:44.940 --> 51:50.660]  They said, okay, well, you could just run across the street to the, to the other bank, commercial bank across the street, which I did.
[51:50.920 --> 52:04.360]  But I wound up saying to them, which I've said in a similar situation, I said, look, if I'm not who I say I am, call, call the authority, because I've gone to such an extent to commit fraud, to indicate that I am who I say that I am.
[52:04.440 --> 52:06.940]  So if I'm not me, please put me in jail right away.
[52:09.220 --> 52:09.620]  Yeah.
[52:09.620 --> 52:10.020]  Wow.
[52:10.500 --> 52:16.980]  Well, I'm glad you're keeping your, I'm glad you're keeping your sense of humor about the whole thing, and, and, hang in there, because, yeah.
[52:16.980 --> 52:17.720]  Hour of levity.
[52:18.000 --> 52:18.240]  All right.
[52:18.280 --> 52:18.760]  Yeah, that's key.
[52:18.820 --> 52:19.560]  See you guys soon.
[52:19.720 --> 52:20.300]  All right, take care.
[52:20.740 --> 52:29.460]  Reminds me, you know, we're trying to get, what they call it, collector's insurance on the van, because the van is something, that the 2,600 van is something that doesn't get driven around a whole lot.
[52:30.120 --> 52:30.180]  Yeah.
[52:30.340 --> 52:32.040]  And collector vehicles... Status.
[52:32.300 --> 52:39.980]  Why, why pay so much, as if you're driving it every day, when you drive it maybe, you know, two times a year, and less than 100 miles in a year.
[52:40.520 --> 52:57.520]  I've gone to insurance companies, and I've been asked all these questions about the kind of engine, they want pictures, they want to know exactly where it is at all times, and what I do, and, and insurance policies of other vehicles, and just this interrogation.
[52:57.680 --> 53:00.500]  And I can sort of understand what, what this caller is saying.
[53:00.980 --> 53:08.500]  Why do these people have the right to know all this information that really isn't relevant to what I'm trying to do, which is get an insurance policy for one vehicle.
[53:08.800 --> 53:09.080]  Yeah.
[53:09.620 --> 53:09.900]  Yeah.
[53:09.900 --> 53:14.320]  And we've, we've gone through this also with like SSL certs, and that whole industry.
[53:14.540 --> 53:15.040]  Oh my God.
[53:15.260 --> 53:18.080]  It's a whole other thing where they're just, they want every bit of information.
[53:18.180 --> 53:22.240]  You have no idea really, except that there are some sort of certificate authority.
[53:22.660 --> 53:35.760]  And it's, it's the same kind of thing where you're supposed to, at some point, give a lot of trust and you get to that breaking point or that, that, uh, diminishing return where you're like, all right, whatever authority, whatever they're going to grant me,
[53:35.840 --> 53:38.500]  whatever they're going to do, it's doesn't justify the means.
[53:38.680 --> 53:39.200]  It's not worth it.
[53:39.220 --> 53:39.380]  Yeah.
[53:39.560 --> 53:40.220]  You back off.
[53:40.380 --> 53:47.220]  We were trying to get this SSL cert from some company in Israel that was demanding, and they literally said, we want your private information.
[53:47.380 --> 53:49.720]  We want your private address, your private phone number.
[53:49.820 --> 53:52.120]  And when we gave them addresses, they rejected them.
[53:52.200 --> 53:53.700]  They said, no, this is not, this is not correct.
[53:53.780 --> 53:57.660]  This is not the right kind of, they, they already have the information in the first place.
[53:57.840 --> 54:01.440]  I don't know what they're, um, what they're asking for, but it was just, it was offensive.
[54:01.440 --> 54:03.060]  And we eventually dropped it because of that.
[54:03.680 --> 54:05.080]  What kind of SSL certificates?
[54:05.380 --> 54:06.600]  Are you getting the expensive ones?
[54:06.700 --> 54:07.520]  No, we're getting the free ones.
[54:07.520 --> 54:08.080]  Oh, free ones.
[54:08.240 --> 54:08.740]  That's why.
[54:08.980 --> 54:09.440]  Oh, yeah.
[54:09.460 --> 54:10.580]  We get the $20 ones.
[54:10.720 --> 54:11.600]  They're the best compromise.
[54:11.820 --> 54:11.960]  All right.
[54:11.980 --> 54:12.900]  We'll have to talk about this.
[54:13.180 --> 54:14.200]  Let's take another phone call.
[54:14.460 --> 54:15.760]  Oh, look, it went away again.
[54:15.960 --> 54:16.140]  Wow.
[54:16.300 --> 54:18.320]  Bernie, every time you start talking, the phones start ringing.
[54:18.320 --> 54:19.000]  So say something.
[54:19.760 --> 54:20.580]  Listeners, call in.
[54:20.680 --> 54:21.840]  We have, uh, five more minutes.
[54:22.360 --> 54:23.220]  You can't say that.
[54:23.340 --> 54:24.400]  If you say that, they don't call in.
[54:24.400 --> 54:27.140]  You have to say something that I have to interrupt you to take a phone call.
[54:27.420 --> 54:28.540]  Um, well, I'm sorry.
[54:28.540 --> 54:29.620]  I couldn't make it to Maker Faire.
[54:29.740 --> 54:30.180]  I'll say that.
[54:30.420 --> 54:32.760]  Is there an interesting story behind why you didn't make it to Maker Faire?
[54:32.880 --> 54:36.060]  Uh, no, just family stuff, but, uh, I understand it was great.
[54:36.100 --> 54:37.340]  I talked to a lot of other people there.
[54:37.440 --> 54:38.640]  The Ventures Computer people were there.
[54:38.740 --> 54:40.940]  Venture Computer, uh, Festival people were there.
[54:41.100 --> 54:41.300]  Yes.
[54:41.940 --> 54:43.560]  Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing hobbyists.
[54:43.620 --> 54:44.660]  Did you manage to meet up with them?
[54:44.800 --> 54:45.700]  Yes, we talked to them.
[54:45.860 --> 54:45.940]  I'm sorry.
[54:45.980 --> 54:47.800]  I have to interrupt you because we have a phone call coming in.
[54:47.960 --> 54:48.320]  Good evening.
[54:48.540 --> 54:49.320]  You're on Off the Hook.
[54:50.820 --> 54:51.660]  Speak up, please.
[54:52.640 --> 54:55.280]  Yeah, I had some good news after that last call.
[54:55.700 --> 55:02.240]  Uh, the EFF just, uh, they held, uh, something called the Tour Challenge 2014.
[55:03.700 --> 55:07.200]  And the last one they held was in 2011.
[55:07.740 --> 55:16.820]  And this, the, um, this year they've had over 1,600 tour relays added, which is three times as much as, uh, 2011.
[55:17.860 --> 55:19.180]  So that's some good news.
[55:20.140 --> 55:21.300]  Yeah, that does sound like good news.
[55:21.840 --> 55:23.120]  Well, thanks, uh, thanks for that info.
[55:23.660 --> 55:24.160]  Yeah, no problem.
[55:24.480 --> 55:25.880]  All right, let's take another phone call.
[55:26.200 --> 55:26.960]  And good evening.
[55:27.080 --> 55:27.760]  You're on Off the Hook.
[55:28.280 --> 55:28.940]  Oh, boy.
[55:29.900 --> 55:31.780]  That, that caller was calling last week.
[55:32.180 --> 55:33.440]  212-209-2900.
[55:33.560 --> 55:34.740]  We only have a minute or two left.
[55:35.500 --> 55:41.000]  Um, I'm sorry, Bernie, you were, uh, Bernie and Kyle, you were talking about, uh... About the Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing for sure.
[55:41.480 --> 55:41.720]  Yes.
[55:42.060 --> 55:42.560]  Make her fair.
[55:42.960 --> 55:44.700]  Yeah, um, it's funny, Bernie.
[55:44.860 --> 55:47.820]  We were so busy outside and they were so busy inside.
[55:47.820 --> 55:49.440]  We didn't get a chance to go inside.
[55:49.440 --> 55:56.540]  And when we actually, uh, bumped into those guys, it had been the very first time they made it outside because they were so busy the whole time.
[55:56.620 --> 55:57.800]  It was really funny.
[55:57.860 --> 56:04.060]  But we did talk to them for a couple moments and, uh, they were giving us some, some updates on, uh, the restoration project they're doing.
[56:04.260 --> 56:06.240]  And, uh, we told them, hey, you know, just take your time.
[56:06.400 --> 56:08.440]  And I think we're going to catch up with them in the spring over that.
[56:08.660 --> 56:09.680]  Okay, let's take another phone call.
[56:10.660 --> 56:11.300]  You're on Off the Hook.
[56:12.520 --> 56:13.140]  Speak up.
[56:13.340 --> 56:14.080]  Oh, they hung up.
[56:14.420 --> 56:15.080]  Good evening.
[56:15.260 --> 56:15.920]  You're on Off the Hook.
[56:17.080 --> 56:17.860]  Speak up, please.
[56:18.680 --> 56:19.140]  Yeah, hello.
[56:19.260 --> 56:19.640]  Good evening.
[56:19.920 --> 56:26.980]  Um, in New Jersey, one year they forced us to get photo IDs on the license, on the license, driver's license.
[56:27.180 --> 56:27.480]  Uh-huh.
[56:27.700 --> 56:34.900]  So four years later, they sent me my renewal form and I brought it in in person because, uh, it was the last day of the month and I'm lazy, you know.
[56:35.260 --> 56:40.420]  So, um, they said, well, we can't accept this because you brought it in.
[56:40.660 --> 56:42.440]  You might have stolen it out of a mailbox.
[56:42.780 --> 56:45.980]  And I said, but here's my driver's license that I got last time.
[56:46.020 --> 56:48.720]  This is my driver's license with the picture that you gave me.
[56:48.840 --> 56:50.360]  And they said, that's not good enough.
[56:50.940 --> 56:53.140]  How is it not good enough when it's your face on the picture?
[56:53.440 --> 56:54.440]  And they gave it to me.
[56:55.400 --> 56:57.300]  They sent me to go get my birth certificate.
[56:57.360 --> 56:58.960]  They won't even... And I had to bring that in.
[56:59.120 --> 57:03.640]  They won't even accept their... In other words, they want to accept their form of ID, the ID they issue.
[57:04.020 --> 57:04.280]  Yes.
[57:04.580 --> 57:06.020]  Insane in New Jersey motor vehicle.
[57:06.040 --> 57:06.980]  Let me see if I understand this.
[57:07.000 --> 57:08.240]  You brought it in in person.
[57:08.420 --> 57:10.620]  They wouldn't accept... How did they want you to submit it?
[57:11.240 --> 57:12.960]  They told me to go get my birth certificate.
[57:13.260 --> 57:15.180]  And to get that, I just had to show my license.
[57:15.400 --> 57:15.900]  Oh boy.
[57:16.920 --> 57:18.700]  And it gets worse, but I don't have time now.
[57:18.960 --> 57:19.100]  Yeah.
[57:19.380 --> 57:20.980]  I'm sure we have all kinds of stories we could share.
[57:21.140 --> 57:22.280]  I'm glad you're not living in New Jersey.
[57:22.860 --> 57:25.580]  Well, I'm sure there are examples in New York and every place else.
[57:25.700 --> 57:26.800]  Let's see if we can take one more phone call.
[57:26.880 --> 57:27.120]  Good evening.
[57:27.220 --> 57:27.760]  You're on Off the Hook.
[57:27.820 --> 57:28.860]  We have all kinds of stories.
[57:29.080 --> 57:30.200]  Please turn down your radio.
[57:31.180 --> 57:31.540]  Hello.
[57:32.860 --> 57:33.540]  Are you there?
[57:34.220 --> 57:34.580]  Yes.
[57:34.840 --> 57:35.020]  Hi.
[57:35.020 --> 57:35.600]  What's on your mind?
[57:36.720 --> 57:43.440]  I'd like to know what's so special about the new iPhone and what's the iWatch about?
[57:43.580 --> 57:47.160]  Is it a regular watch or does it do some kind of tricks or...
[57:49.040 --> 57:50.340]  Mike, do you want to take this one?
[57:50.420 --> 57:51.760]  I think you have one of those watches on you.
[57:51.940 --> 57:53.240]  I do not have the Apple Watch.
[57:53.480 --> 58:04.360]  I have another brand of watch that I don't really have much to say about because I don't think that this program focuses so much on new gadgets.
[58:04.560 --> 58:04.900]  I don't know.
[58:05.660 --> 58:06.220]  I heard it bends.
[58:06.220 --> 58:08.360]  Most products take a lot of money out of your pocket.
[58:08.480 --> 58:08.960]  That's the trick.
[58:09.120 --> 58:09.420]  They do.
[58:10.080 --> 58:10.440]  Yeah.
[58:10.480 --> 58:19.660]  I just have to say this in closing because we are out of time, but there was a march this Sunday all about climate change in Manhattan.
[58:20.000 --> 58:22.360]  It was something over 400,000 people showed up.
[58:22.480 --> 58:27.460]  And you had to search long and hard on mass media to find any coverage of it.
[58:27.660 --> 58:36.540]  However, you had no problem finding plenty of coverage about the crowds of people waiting outside the Apple store to buy the latest gadget.
[58:36.540 --> 58:37.480]  That was everywhere.
[58:37.760 --> 58:40.760]  I think that kind of says what the problem is right there.
[58:41.180 --> 58:41.720]  All right.
[58:41.800 --> 58:42.700]  We're out of time now.
[58:43.720 --> 58:46.940]  OTH at 2600.com is our email address.
[58:47.020 --> 58:49.480]  If you have any comments, please send them in.
[58:49.680 --> 58:53.640]  We will be back next week at the same time, same place.
[58:54.160 --> 58:56.860]  Coming up next, personal computer show here on WBAI.
[58:57.020 --> 58:58.200]  Emmanuel for Off the Hook.
[58:58.200 --> 58:58.700]  Have a good night.
[01:00:56.910 --> 01:00:59.870]  You know, I think that we should save this planet.
[01:01:00.070 --> 01:01:06.870]  This planet we should save because it's the only one with chocolate.
[01:01:07.610 --> 01:01:10.270]  Man, I love that chocolate.