[00:00.000 --> 00:11.240]  Comments to the WBAI Community Advisory Board, 388 Atlantic Avenue, 3rd Floor, Brooklyn, New York, 11217.
[00:11.520 --> 00:14.940]  Thanks for your ideas and invaluable support.
[00:18.320 --> 00:22.340]  And you are listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:22.580 --> 00:25.040]  Time is 7.01, almost 7.02.
[00:25.460 --> 00:29.540]  Time for a special two-hour edition of Off the Hook.
[00:35.920 --> 00:39.380]  The phone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:40.440 --> 00:44.860]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:45.620 --> 00:47.480]  We couldn't get much work,
[00:53.950 --> 00:55.650]  I hope that's understood.
[00:55.990 --> 00:56.690]  One little bit more!
[02:14.820 --> 02:16.700]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:16.840 --> 02:17.920]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:18.000 --> 02:19.000]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[02:19.780 --> 02:21.380]  And nobody else is in the studio.
[02:21.380 --> 02:23.340]  No other regular staff people, that is.
[02:23.740 --> 02:26.820]  We do have a special guest, but first let me introduce Bernie S.
[02:27.240 --> 02:28.440]  Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[02:28.940 --> 02:36.880]  I don't know if it's the fundraiser, or the rain, or the Halloween type of year, time of year, or just pure chance.
[02:36.880 --> 02:43.760]  But this is the first time I can remember in a long time where none of the other people, other staff people of Off the Hook have been in the studio.
[02:44.700 --> 02:45.320]  Isn't that something?
[02:45.820 --> 02:47.180]  Maybe they're getting ready for Halloween.
[02:47.360 --> 02:47.660]  I don't know.
[02:47.700 --> 02:48.420]  I kind of like it.
[02:48.460 --> 02:56.320]  I kind of, because I can just basically say whatever I want without anybody jumping down my throat and saying that I got a particular word in that sentence wrong, or something like that.
[02:56.320 --> 02:57.560]  Well, I can stand in and do that.
[02:57.660 --> 02:59.980]  I can also fade you down and not have to look at you.
[03:00.140 --> 03:01.260]  I see.
[03:01.780 --> 03:07.980]  But the studio is far from empty because we have, gracing our presence tonight, the Honorable Stephen Rombone.
[03:08.340 --> 03:09.040]  How are you doing?
[03:09.040 --> 03:10.060]  Hello, Brother Bernie.
[03:10.300 --> 03:11.300]  Hello, Stephen.
[03:11.540 --> 03:12.440]  Thanks for coming on tonight.
[03:12.600 --> 03:23.140]  Stephen, as you may know, is a renowned private investigator and privacy expert who has spoken at every single Hackers on Planet Earth conference known to man.
[03:23.140 --> 03:32.560]  And tonight we have a special two-hour program featuring Steve and some of the things that he has said from way back that have come true.
[03:32.560 --> 03:37.560]  If we had only been listening to him from the start, we wouldn't be going through a lot of the hassles we're going through right now.
[03:37.660 --> 03:43.620]  But it's not too late because you can listen to him tonight and maybe take precautions for the next 20 years.
[03:43.780 --> 03:45.280]  And we have some new stuff tonight.
[03:45.460 --> 03:45.860]  That's right.
[03:45.980 --> 03:47.840]  We always have new things.
[03:48.420 --> 03:51.180]  Bernie, anything new down in Pennsylvania?
[03:52.740 --> 03:55.360]  As far as news go?
[03:55.520 --> 03:58.220]  Anything you'd like to get out of the way before we plunge into all this?
[03:59.220 --> 04:00.460]  Nothing to get out of the way.
[04:00.640 --> 04:20.600]  I mean, I would like to note tonight yesterday's passing of Ben Bradley, the editor of the Washington Post, who was instrumental in his newspaper's publishing of the Pentagon Papers, whose leaker, Daniel Ellsberg, was our keynote speaker at Hope X this summer.
[04:21.480 --> 04:30.980]  But I think Ben Bradley was a bastion of free speech and really someone to be admired if we really want to know what our government is up to and what it's doing.
[04:31.960 --> 04:32.520]  Absolutely.
[04:32.800 --> 04:33.000]  Yes.
[04:33.680 --> 04:35.720]  Sad news on that front.
[04:38.120 --> 04:56.840]  And as far as other things going on in the news, I guess, you know, most of the technology-related things, most of the privacy-related things have to do with companies, governments screwing up and letting all kinds of data insecure.
[04:56.840 --> 04:57.740]  Let's put it that way.
[04:58.400 --> 05:01.020]  I think Staples is the most recent example.
[05:01.200 --> 05:02.200]  Is that correct, Bernie?
[05:02.480 --> 05:04.060]  I heard Staples was victimized.
[05:04.220 --> 05:08.420]  My credit card was recently canceled because of the Home Depot thing.
[05:08.880 --> 05:09.820]  What, did you cancel it?
[05:09.940 --> 05:10.960]  No, it was canceled.
[05:11.300 --> 05:17.460]  I was actually at a gas station a couple of weeks ago purchasing gasoline, and my card didn't work.
[05:17.460 --> 05:23.040]  And I called my credit card company and saying, hey, why doesn't my MasterCard work anymore?
[05:23.660 --> 05:28.600]  And they said, oh, it was canceled, and we will be sending you a new one.
[05:29.120 --> 05:29.520]  Okay.
[05:29.520 --> 05:31.080]  But for now, you don't have anything.
[05:31.280 --> 05:31.680]  Exactly.
[05:31.940 --> 05:32.580]  Nor did I.
[05:32.620 --> 05:34.920]  I did not receive any email, phone call, nothing.
[05:34.960 --> 05:36.760]  So I was pretty screwed right then.
[05:36.760 --> 05:37.680]  I was short on cash.
[05:37.680 --> 05:42.160]  I had to go to an ATM machine somewhere and get cash and pay a fee.
[05:42.260 --> 05:43.240]  It was a pain in the neck.
[05:43.920 --> 05:48.120]  And yeah, and I got to the security department who said it was because of this Home Depot thing.
[05:49.140 --> 05:52.720]  And they will send you a new card without a chip in it, without a pin.
[05:52.760 --> 05:53.420]  Yes, exactly.
[05:53.460 --> 06:06.060]  The same open, insecure card, that type of card that has already been hacked and stolen from pretty much every American by now.
[06:06.060 --> 06:11.920]  So when I heard the Staples thing, it's like, oh my gosh, I just used a new card at Staples.
[06:14.080 --> 06:14.800]  Oh boy.
[06:15.040 --> 06:16.600]  It may be repeating itself all over again.
[06:16.600 --> 06:18.080]  Maybe you're the weak link somehow.
[06:18.380 --> 06:19.020]  It must be my fault.
[06:19.040 --> 06:21.400]  Your card is the one that they're testing.
[06:21.700 --> 06:24.340]  But Steve, you know, I've gotten a bunch of new cards.
[06:24.880 --> 06:27.020]  I've got a few of them here.
[06:27.020 --> 06:28.360]  As you can see, they all have chips in them.
[06:28.760 --> 06:31.380]  You know, I'm looking at the stack of cards that you have.
[06:31.760 --> 06:32.960]  You're like a poker dealer.
[06:32.960 --> 06:34.160]  Well, I'm a collector, basically.
[06:34.160 --> 06:35.660]  How many cards do you have?
[06:36.060 --> 06:36.680]  All of them, I do.
[06:36.820 --> 06:37.480]  Holy cow.
[06:37.700 --> 06:41.920]  And everything that I've been sent this year has a little chip in it.
[06:42.120 --> 06:45.840]  Now, nobody is using the chip yet because the software apparently has not been turned on.
[06:45.920 --> 06:50.360]  I know this because we're actually merchants too when we go to places and sell our wares.
[06:51.560 --> 06:55.780]  But that particular part of the processing is not yet installed.
[06:55.920 --> 06:57.980]  So hopefully it'll work when they do turn it on.
[06:57.980 --> 06:58.820]  I'm not sure when that will be.
[06:58.880 --> 07:00.320]  Credit cards are being aged out anyway.
[07:00.320 --> 07:11.500]  I mean, you've got this Apple Pay and you've got Google trying to get in on it and all of the various cell phone companies with near-field communication.
[07:11.940 --> 07:21.380]  And, you know, credit cards don't allow sufficient tracking of your daily minor activities.
[07:22.080 --> 07:24.980]  So everything's going to start to be moved to cell phones.
[07:26.060 --> 07:27.760]  That's a thought right there.
[07:27.780 --> 07:30.400]  I know in Europe a lot of things are on cell phones already.
[07:30.620 --> 07:30.900]  Sure.
[07:31.220 --> 07:31.660]  Sure.
[07:31.660 --> 07:38.140]  And I've been in places in Asia where people walk up to a soda machine and buy a can of Coke with their cell phone.
[07:38.140 --> 07:55.500]  I was surprised, I think it was about three or four years ago, I was in Shanghai and got off at the train station there and I saw schoolgirls getting through the turnstiles by just waving their cell phone at a sensor.
[07:55.720 --> 07:58.700]  And I was like, wow, they're way more advanced than we are.
[07:58.820 --> 07:59.280]  Well, sure.
[07:59.280 --> 08:00.960]  You can put anything on your cell phone.
[08:00.960 --> 08:11.040]  I'd say about half of the people that board in Group 1 on airplanes now are using their cell phones as their boarding pass.
[08:11.820 --> 08:12.340]  Yep.
[08:12.940 --> 08:17.480]  Well, you know, that seems to me, Bernie, you say they're more advanced, but...
[08:17.480 --> 08:21.040]  Well, this was four years ago, was a long time technologically.
[08:21.380 --> 08:21.480]  Right.
[08:21.740 --> 08:29.020]  And the technology surely existed, near-field communications, electronic payment systems, you know, all that existed.
[08:29.020 --> 08:32.100]  Just the infrastructure, China rolled it out.
[08:32.400 --> 08:33.300]  Why are we...
[08:33.300 --> 08:35.320]  Why is the United States so far behind?
[08:35.460 --> 08:41.400]  The EU, countries in the EU have had chip-and-pin technology for, what, 20 years now?
[08:41.560 --> 08:43.880]  Why are we so far behind here?
[08:44.180 --> 08:46.020]  That is a good question as far as that goes.
[08:46.100 --> 08:56.200]  But in regard to basically using your cell phone for every entry to whatever requires a fee, to me, that's just the ultimate in tracking.
[08:56.200 --> 09:01.220]  And I'm sure Steve would agree that this is how your whereabouts can be watched.
[09:01.360 --> 09:04.400]  There are already 200,000 installed beacons.
[09:04.600 --> 09:08.840]  These little devices that, through Bluetooth, track your cell phone.
[09:08.920 --> 09:23.080]  If your cell phone is known, it sends you a coupon or an ad or ads to its marketing list that you are in aisle three of Walmart or you're browsing suits in Bloomingdale's.
[09:23.080 --> 09:23.380]  Wait a minute.
[09:23.500 --> 09:28.460]  They can actually tell what aisle in Walmart you're waddling down, if you're a person from Walmart.
[09:28.600 --> 09:29.260]  You're right.
[09:29.540 --> 09:31.320]  Waddling with your thong exposed.
[09:31.420 --> 09:31.960]  Yes.
[09:32.200 --> 09:34.920]  That's for anybody who wants the complete image.
[09:35.740 --> 09:37.920]  Yes, that's absolutely correct.
[09:38.660 --> 09:42.880]  Part of it is the short range on a lot of these devices.
[09:42.880 --> 09:46.340]  I mean, the range will be 10 yards or 20 yards.
[09:46.540 --> 09:56.000]  So they know through immediate triangulation, pretty much, you know, that you're standing in front of the carrots, the canned carrots.
[09:57.140 --> 09:59.680]  Well, that's... to me, it's funny.
[09:59.680 --> 10:06.940]  We can have, you know, a blast playing with this technology, but it's also pretty scary if you're trying to maintain any semblance of privacy.
[10:07.080 --> 10:09.280]  It just seems that we're willingly giving it all away.
[10:09.280 --> 10:13.040]  And, Steve, I know you've said this before, that Facebook and Twitter...
[10:13.040 --> 10:16.060]  Facebook and Twitter are not even the issue anymore.
[10:16.060 --> 10:21.080]  But it's a favor to you as a private investigator what people put in the public domain, that they don't have to.
[10:21.160 --> 10:35.260]  Listen, I can tell you, you know, I'm not going to reveal a whole lot about this, and I'm sure Bernie isn't either, but Bernie actually helped me with a missing kid in trouble who we tracked.
[10:35.260 --> 10:36.980]  I just heard about this a few minutes ago.
[10:36.980 --> 10:42.220]  Yeah, like Starsky and Hotshare, you guys are tracking down missing kids and just basically...
[10:42.220 --> 10:43.860]  Wait a second, which one of us is Starsky?
[10:43.880 --> 10:44.220]  I don't know.
[10:44.580 --> 10:46.820]  I'm not even sure which one is Starsky if I watch it.
[10:46.900 --> 10:47.300]  Oh, okay.
[10:47.560 --> 10:47.700]  Yeah.
[10:47.900 --> 10:48.000]  All right.
[10:48.400 --> 10:52.700]  But that's, I mean, that's incredible that you guys have to pair up like this.
[10:52.840 --> 10:53.500]  Yeah, that's right.
[10:53.520 --> 10:54.320]  You're a huggy bear.
[10:54.980 --> 10:55.980]  That's exactly right.
[10:56.440 --> 10:57.860]  All right, let's not go too far into this.
[10:58.060 --> 11:02.420]  But, yeah, so, I mean, how much do you want to reveal of...
[11:02.420 --> 11:23.660]  Well, I can tell you that there was this young girl, 13-year-old girl, who got lured away by a series of pedophiles, passed from bad guy to bad guy, and we were able to track her through entirely electronic means to a very specific area of Pennsylvania.
[11:23.660 --> 11:28.480]  And Bernie was my Pennsylvania consultant in this area.
[11:28.900 --> 11:44.100]  And because of the information that we gathered electronically and some info from Bernie and some other people, we were able to blanket the particular area that we knew that this girl had gone from New York to this area in Pennsylvania.
[11:44.240 --> 11:46.420]  And we caught her within 72 hours.
[11:46.420 --> 11:56.640]  And it was an interesting coincidence is this happened just a couple of blocks from where the 1971 office...
[11:56.640 --> 12:00.360]  The FBI office in Media, Pennsylvania, was burglarized in 1971 by...
[12:00.360 --> 12:07.460]  That's what I told Emmanuel when I told you the address, your point of reference was, oh, yeah, down the block from the FBI office.
[12:09.940 --> 12:10.500]  Wow.
[12:10.500 --> 12:11.560]  That's pretty incredible.
[12:11.980 --> 12:23.040]  But getting back to the issue of privacy today, we are always hearing about credit cards being compromised, people's private data being left out in the open.
[12:23.420 --> 12:30.200]  And if we're not hearing about that, we're hearing about our nude photos getting leaked because somebody left them on their phone and they were backed up to the cloud.
[12:30.580 --> 12:32.000]  I saw a story this week.
[12:32.400 --> 12:39.020]  Russell Brand is not worried about being caught up in the nude celebrity photo scandal because he doesn't have any pictures to leak.
[12:39.120 --> 12:40.140]  How did this even become a story?
[12:42.680 --> 12:49.220]  The 39-year-old comedian is adamant he won't become a part of the fappening, which I don't know why it's called that.
[12:49.400 --> 12:49.740]  Fappening.
[12:49.920 --> 13:04.900]  Oh, the fappening was a subreddit where they posted all of the leaked naked celebrity photos about two months ago.
[13:05.020 --> 13:06.720]  But the word, what does the word mean?
[13:07.300 --> 13:07.700]  Fap?
[13:07.780 --> 13:08.780]  You don't know what fap is?
[13:08.820 --> 13:09.600]  Well, apparently I don't.
[13:09.600 --> 13:13.640]  Fap is the act of self-gratification.
[13:13.840 --> 13:14.120]  Oh.
[13:14.140 --> 13:15.900]  Is that clean enough?
[13:16.060 --> 13:16.660]  I guess.
[13:17.080 --> 13:17.880]  To fap.
[13:18.960 --> 13:20.180]  Somehow I missed that one.
[13:20.640 --> 13:22.880]  That's the infinitive, to fap.
[13:23.140 --> 13:25.460]  Okay, well, you see, I learned something from this whole thing.
[13:25.520 --> 13:28.640]  Yeah, I learned a valuable bit of information.
[13:28.720 --> 13:35.340]  But anyway, he won't become a part of the fappening, which has affected over 100 stars, including, well, we don't need to list them again.
[13:35.340 --> 13:36.620]  This is all publicity for them.
[13:36.620 --> 13:40.380]  He admits he has been perplexed by the weird leak.
[13:40.920 --> 13:43.040]  I've been perplexed by the weird leak as well.
[13:43.240 --> 13:47.680]  But Steve, I wanted your perspective on this as far as protecting yourself.
[13:48.420 --> 13:52.260]  Can you assume that everything in your cell phone is going to be kept on your cell phone?
[13:52.700 --> 13:53.560]  Absolutely not.
[13:53.560 --> 13:54.200]  That's ridiculous.
[13:54.540 --> 13:58.700]  Anything that you put in digital format is gone or potentially gone.
[13:58.960 --> 14:11.220]  Look, the takeaway from this whole iCloud crack with the fappening, followed by the fappening, is that anything that you do digitally is out of your control.
[14:11.220 --> 14:12.960]  You put something in the cloud.
[14:13.080 --> 14:14.640]  The cloud is not a cloud.
[14:14.960 --> 14:24.280]  People think of it as this heavenly, you know, environment where your songs and your pictures go on vacation.
[14:25.160 --> 14:27.900]  It's basically somebody else's computer.
[14:27.960 --> 14:32.860]  And you are trusting the security of your sensitive data to somebody else.
[14:33.020 --> 14:33.520]  It's ridiculous.
[14:33.520 --> 14:38.960]  Look, you know, lately we've been hearing Google is going to start heavy encryption.
[14:39.900 --> 14:47.740]  The iPhone is going to have end-to-end encryption that's going to even foil the CIA and the NSA and the FBI.
[14:48.060 --> 14:52.580]  And Comey, the new director of the FBI, is all a flutter about this.
[14:52.680 --> 14:54.300]  It's all a bunch of crap.
[14:54.500 --> 14:56.980]  It is all absolutely a bunch of crap.
[14:56.980 --> 15:07.760]  First of all, the transactional data, where you are, what you do, what you're using your cell phone for, all of that is out there.
[15:07.760 --> 15:08.720]  It's being sold.
[15:08.720 --> 15:09.940]  It's being resold.
[15:10.180 --> 15:15.580]  And the people who are buying it are commercial marketing companies.
[15:16.000 --> 15:24.560]  I mean, their goal is to make money off of your eyeballs and off of your feet to get you to go and do things and buy things and look at things.
[15:24.880 --> 15:30.840]  And I can tell you that that's the privacy invasion today.
[15:31.220 --> 15:39.000]  That everything that you do is cataloged by somebody who wants to sell your profile.
[15:39.980 --> 15:43.760]  And they seem to be very successful at it.
[15:43.960 --> 15:54.440]  There is no facet of your life, your online life, your meat space, physical life, that is not recorded somewhere.
[15:54.660 --> 16:16.180]  And with the near-field payment systems, with the iAds and iPhone coupons, and all of the various tracking that comes with pretty much every app, 45% of iPhone apps now report your location.
[16:16.900 --> 16:18.900]  45% of iPhone apps.
[16:18.900 --> 16:25.940]  I mean, the only one that's really made it to the news and barely even then is the Flashlight app.
[16:26.280 --> 16:28.300]  The Flashlight app records your location?
[16:28.520 --> 16:31.800]  Oh, the Flashlight app transmits your location and a ton of personal data.
[16:32.580 --> 16:36.360]  You know, again, I mean, who reads terms of service?
[16:36.700 --> 16:41.040]  But you're giving permission when you activate these apps.
[16:42.340 --> 16:49.020]  There is no sensitive part of your life that I can't glean from your cell phone.
[16:50.660 --> 16:52.480]  Amazing and scary at the same time.
[16:52.600 --> 16:57.700]  Hey, we're here with Stephen Rombaum, who has been talking about this for lo these many years.
[16:57.700 --> 16:59.280]  We've been honored to have him at the H.O.P.
[16:59.420 --> 17:03.720]  conferences from the very first one up until the very most recent one.
[17:04.340 --> 17:12.180]  And he's been basically telling anyone who will listen that this is what you do when you use certain devices, when you use certain software.
[17:12.180 --> 17:14.040]  This is how the system works.
[17:14.140 --> 17:22.340]  What we are offering tonight as part of the WBAI Autumn Fundraiser is a full collection of all of Stephen's talks at the H.O.P.
[17:22.400 --> 17:22.980]  conferences.
[17:23.740 --> 17:27.460]  And that encompasses the last 20 years.
[17:27.940 --> 17:33.000]  For a pledge of $75, you will get all of those on a flash drive.
[17:33.000 --> 17:38.820]  And I know the flash drives last time, we were on two weeks ago, they were very popular.
[17:39.500 --> 17:41.340]  We were also offering...
[17:41.340 --> 17:48.140]  And we offered, I believe, 20 flash drives that had every single talk from Hope X, the most recent Hope conference.
[17:49.600 --> 17:53.980]  And they were gone by the end of the two hours, before the end of the two hours.
[17:54.180 --> 17:56.980]  So what we have done is we've opened up another 10.
[17:57.320 --> 17:57.880]  Only 10.
[17:58.120 --> 18:00.920]  But they are available for this show.
[18:00.920 --> 18:04.940]  So, 212-209-2950 is the phone number.
[18:05.300 --> 18:06.960]  You have your choice or you can get both.
[18:07.160 --> 18:12.740]  You can get all of Stephen's talks from all different conferences for a pledge of $75 on a flash drive.
[18:12.860 --> 18:16.220]  Or you can get all of the talks from Hope X.
[18:16.220 --> 18:19.520]  That's 64 gigs of flash drive that you will get.
[18:19.940 --> 18:22.760]  And that's for a pledge of $125.
[18:22.760 --> 18:25.520]  212-209-2950.
[18:26.320 --> 18:29.200]  What I would like to do is go back in time a little bit.
[18:29.400 --> 18:30.620]  Will you indulge me on this?
[18:31.000 --> 18:31.040]  Sure.
[18:31.040 --> 18:32.100]  We'll go back to 1997.
[18:33.160 --> 18:35.060]  What do you think you were warning us about then?
[18:37.560 --> 18:41.720]  I think I predicted Google Glass that year.
[18:42.120 --> 18:42.800]  In 1997?
[18:43.180 --> 18:43.680]  Is that right?
[18:43.680 --> 18:44.060]  I don't know.
[18:44.080 --> 18:44.900]  Or was it the year...
[18:44.900 --> 18:49.140]  I know that we predicted Google Glass eight years in advance.
[18:49.940 --> 18:50.380]  Wow.
[18:52.760 --> 18:56.000]  You're good at predicting some of the things coming down the pike because you work with this.
[18:56.180 --> 18:59.000]  This is part of what you do, investigations.
[19:00.080 --> 19:04.980]  And it's great that you share that with the hacker community, with the world at large.
[19:05.000 --> 19:08.460]  We'll be talking about that a little bit more when we come back from this excerpt.
[19:08.580 --> 19:14.040]  Oh, by the way, it's the Hope Intermission music that we're playing here because we want to get in the spirit of things.
[19:14.320 --> 19:16.660]  But mostly, we want to hear from you.
[19:16.800 --> 19:19.860]  We want to hear from our listeners because you're the ones who make all of this possible.
[19:20.020 --> 19:21.340]  Think of the power that you have.
[19:21.340 --> 19:24.660]  Steven is on the air right now talking about all of this.
[19:24.880 --> 19:29.260]  This leads more people to hear about it, leads more people to become educated.
[19:29.900 --> 19:38.720]  And WBAI, in many ways, is responsible for the success of the Hope Conferences because this radio station has gotten the word out in so many different ways.
[19:39.300 --> 19:41.900]  It's important to keep these communication links open.
[19:42.660 --> 19:44.360]  212-209-2950.
[19:44.880 --> 19:47.380]  I'd love to see a strong response from the beginning.
[19:47.520 --> 19:48.480]  We're on for two hours tonight.
[19:48.480 --> 19:49.560]  We're not on next week.
[19:49.820 --> 19:54.240]  So, this is really it as far as hoping to get a lot of people calling in.
[19:54.400 --> 19:55.540]  Let's go back to 1997.
[19:55.640 --> 19:59.800]  Listen to Steve Rambam at the Beyond Hope Conference.
[20:00.080 --> 20:02.780]  This is the only one that did not take place at Hotel Pennsylvania.
[20:02.780 --> 20:04.580]  This took place at the old Puck Building downtown.
[20:05.460 --> 20:08.080]  Again, 212-209-2950.
[20:08.080 --> 20:08.800]  1997.
[20:09.960 --> 20:17.800]  Emmanuel spoke about a case that we completed about six months ago which made it into the mass media.
[20:18.100 --> 20:22.660]  And that was a hunt for Nazi war criminals in Canada.
[20:23.500 --> 20:30.700]  With very little trouble, we found 161 war criminals in Canada.
[20:31.020 --> 20:33.740]  And I have to tell you, it was...
[20:34.720 --> 20:35.680]  Thank you.
[20:37.160 --> 20:44.440]  I have to tell you, it was not as a result of my great investigative ability, although there is that.
[20:45.960 --> 20:49.840]  It was because that things have changed in the past 10 years.
[20:50.620 --> 20:52.320]  Information is more open.
[20:52.520 --> 20:54.300]  Information is more accessible.
[20:54.680 --> 20:56.800]  And it's more publicly accessible.
[20:58.960 --> 21:06.420]  A third of the people that we found, we found by picking up a copy of the Canada ProPhone and plugging their names in.
[21:07.100 --> 21:08.980]  They were in the phone book.
[21:09.540 --> 21:20.420]  Another third we found, or even more than another third, by pulling driver license records, motor vehicle records, property registration, all of which is now online.
[21:21.740 --> 21:28.540]  Maybe 10% of the people we found, we had to mount a real, honest-to-goodness investigation to find.
[21:31.360 --> 21:37.140]  That sort of accessibility to information on the part of the average private person.
[21:37.280 --> 21:39.260]  And I am a private investigator.
[21:39.480 --> 21:42.800]  I have no more rights to access information than you do.
[21:43.020 --> 21:44.720]  I can't go into NCIC.
[21:44.800 --> 21:47.560]  Well, I can go into NCIC, but I'm not supposed to.
[21:48.560 --> 21:50.640]  I can't go into NCIC.
[21:50.960 --> 21:57.040]  I can't get toll records, although about five people have offered me toll records here today.
[22:00.260 --> 22:04.420]  All of the information that I can access, you can access.
[22:04.420 --> 22:08.520]  And this has enormously empowered the average person.
[22:10.200 --> 22:22.440]  Fifteen years ago, when the jewish community and the community of people who care in Canada went to the government after the Duchesne Commission and said, how many war criminals are there in Canada?
[22:22.440 --> 22:23.120]  Who are they?
[22:23.180 --> 22:23.760]  Where are they?
[22:23.980 --> 22:29.200]  The government said, we can't tell you it's closed files, but don't worry, we've got everything under control.
[22:29.600 --> 22:34.760]  Now, as an aside, let me tell you, since 1979, the U.S.
[22:34.860 --> 22:47.640]  has deported or chased out over 100 war criminals, Canada's deported one, which is why we joined with a number of public interest organizations and mounted the investigation in Canada.
[22:49.220 --> 22:56.820]  Fifteen years ago, the citizens of Canada had to take the government's word for who was in Canada and what was available.
[22:59.180 --> 23:07.620]  Last year, they didn't because we had the ability to go out and pull records and investigate people and knock on their doors and talk to them.
[23:12.700 --> 23:30.700]  The revolution in the power of computing and the power of database management and just simply what is now computer accessible as opposed to what fifteen years ago was only on microfiche or only on index cards has changed the world.
[23:30.700 --> 23:37.860]  and I'm not talking about that you can now take a picture of yourself mooning the camera and put it on the internet.
[23:38.300 --> 23:43.920]  I'm talking about driver license records, motor vehicle records, voter registration.
[23:45.040 --> 23:53.320]  Almost every newspaper is now accessible through dial-up services or through the net for free.
[23:53.320 --> 24:06.960]  And the ability to access at one shot the work of hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of investigative reporters is an unbelievably powerful tool.
[24:09.750 --> 24:19.550]  You can now protect yourself and increase the amount of justice in your life without having to rely on the government.
[24:19.550 --> 24:29.210]  You can find out if your nanny your nanny that you're planning to hire has a criminal record or is a drunk or is a drug user.
[24:30.110 --> 24:34.370]  You can investigate an employee before you hire them.
[24:35.130 --> 24:38.110]  You can find your missing father.
[24:39.030 --> 24:41.190]  You can hunt Nazi war criminals.
[24:41.910 --> 24:44.930]  You can increase the amount of justice in the world.
[24:45.130 --> 24:55.450]  And unfortunately not in my opinion but in the opinion of many governments and many large corporations that's not a good thing.
[24:57.590 --> 25:02.710]  For hundreds if not thousands of years there has been an information monopoly.
[25:03.110 --> 25:06.870]  And information really is power as you guys know probably better than me.
[25:09.310 --> 25:12.030]  As an example let's talk about Equifax.
[25:13.870 --> 25:17.010]  Equifax is one of the big three credit reporting companies.
[25:17.430 --> 25:25.470]  They have a file on every single American who has ever applied for credit bought a house or sneezed in a dark room.
[25:27.510 --> 25:31.910]  A few years ago they were planning to sell it on a disc.
[25:32.170 --> 25:33.450]  Something called Marketplace.
[25:33.450 --> 25:34.530]  There was a big uproar.
[25:34.870 --> 25:36.990]  They cancelled their plans to do that.
[25:38.010 --> 25:45.890]  The following year in a public relations campaign they announced that they were cutting off private investigators from access to Equifax.
[25:46.910 --> 25:48.110]  What a scam.
[25:49.310 --> 26:18.270]  The fact of the matter is Equifax in addition to being the largest private credit reporting agency in the United States after TRW and before TransUnion it is the largest private investigative agency in the United States employing more than 30,000 full-time and part-time investigators who do insurance investigations background investigations and pre-employment checks and the truth is what they were
[26:18.270 --> 26:43.570]  doing is was saying if you want access to our files and our investigative consumer reports don't hire these independent private investigators give us your money that's the truth of what happened Equifax wants you to have to go to Equifax and pay big money they don't want you to be able to spend five dollars and access somebody's to see if they really are who they are,
[26:43.770 --> 26:50.750]  to see if their pre-employment application is legit, to see if you should hire them as a nanny.
[26:51.010 --> 26:57.270]  They want you to pay Equifax $150 for a pre-employment screening report, which is what they charge.
[26:57.530 --> 26:59.470]  All right, we're going to step away from that.
[26:59.610 --> 27:01.650]  That was 17 years ago.
[27:01.810 --> 27:10.050]  Steve Rambam talking to a group of hackers about privacy and the developments that allow people to investigate other people.
[27:10.690 --> 27:12.950]  17 years, Steve, so...
[27:12.950 --> 27:15.370]  You know, I'm listening to that.
[27:15.510 --> 27:21.630]  And it's amazing that 17 years ago, we were talking about information opening up.
[27:22.170 --> 27:36.030]  What's going on today... I mean, frankly, 17 years ago, not even I would have predicted the amount of tracking and indexing and record creation that exists today.
[27:37.550 --> 27:41.610]  Every moment of your life, you're leaving digital breadcrumbs.
[27:42.670 --> 27:49.910]  And, you know, 17 years ago, I thought it was bad.
[27:50.030 --> 27:51.250]  It's unbelievable now.
[27:51.330 --> 27:55.010]  Well, are you surprised by how things have turned out in that period of time?
[27:55.010 --> 28:03.050]  No, because I'm not one of these people who think that this is a desire of Big Brother to catalog and track everyone.
[28:03.050 --> 28:06.090]  I know that this is an engine of capitalism.
[28:06.170 --> 28:08.130]  People want to make money off of you.
[28:09.230 --> 28:09.750]  And...
[28:09.750 --> 28:11.350]  Big Brother's in there, too, though, right?
[28:11.410 --> 28:13.190]  Big Brother is competing with all these...
[28:13.190 --> 28:14.890]  Well, no, Big Brother's not competing.
[28:15.070 --> 28:18.530]  Big Brother is standing back and then buying other people's work.
[28:18.730 --> 28:27.930]  I can tell you that the FBI, for example, accesses TLO and LexisNexis and buys up all kinds of information out there.
[28:28.110 --> 28:40.750]  You know, the vast majority of what the FBI uses to track someone or background someone is not from inside the FBI infrastructure.
[28:40.750 --> 28:43.130]  They go out to private industry.
[28:43.910 --> 28:53.150]  The vast majority of the information out there on anyone, unless you're an Al-Qaeda member or an organized crime figure, is in private industry.
[28:53.150 --> 29:14.130]  If I, as a private investigator, was told, Steve, you could have unrestricted access to every governmental file, or you can have unrestricted access to every private industry file, Google, telephone companies, credit card companies, tracking entities,
[29:14.710 --> 29:21.110]  the people who do ALPR, automatic license plate readers, the people who market to you.
[29:21.110 --> 29:27.670]  If I had to choose between the governmental stuff or the private stuff, I would throw away the governmental stuff without even thinking.
[29:27.950 --> 29:33.310]  Because for every piece of data that the government has on you, private industry has a hundred.
[29:33.510 --> 29:35.310]  And that's not hyperbole.
[29:35.390 --> 29:36.530]  That's probably literally true.
[29:36.670 --> 29:41.170]  And you're saying that the companies do the work many times and the government buys that from the company.
[29:41.250 --> 29:42.950]  So they're not even doing the work to get the information.
[29:42.950 --> 29:51.450]  I have actually sat in law enforcement offices and reviewed files and seen what came up on computer screens.
[29:51.630 --> 29:56.870]  And the bulk of it was private origination.
[29:57.450 --> 29:59.110]  So, okay, let me ask you this then.
[29:59.330 --> 30:16.530]  If it is companies that are gathering all this information on us and they will sell it to those interested in buying it, what prevents them from selling it to, say, non-governmental agencies, other governments, other enemies of people that we consider to be evil?
[30:16.590 --> 30:18.710]  Well, first of all, most of it you don't have to sell.
[30:19.370 --> 30:20.770]  Most of it is grabbed.
[30:20.990 --> 30:22.230]  Most of it is vacuumed.
[30:22.330 --> 30:23.810]  Most of it is screen scraped.
[30:24.930 --> 30:30.830]  You know, right now you have the government of China hacking the heck out of iCloud.
[30:30.830 --> 30:34.010]  You know, trying to get every piece of data it can.
[30:34.490 --> 30:42.570]  You have Russia using its deniable civilian hackers hitting databases left, right, and center.
[30:43.890 --> 30:45.230]  You know, everybody...
[30:45.230 --> 30:46.470]  Let me...
[30:46.470 --> 30:48.230]  Okay, it's very funny that you bring this up.
[30:48.290 --> 31:05.390]  I'm involved in a project right now called Project OPSEC, Operational Security, where we are about to expose how easy it is to target members of the military and people that are involved in anti-terrorism efforts.
[31:05.670 --> 31:25.870]  You have a call right now from ISIL or ISIS, whatever their name of the moment is, where they are saying to their followers, to their true believers all over the world, find members of the military, find members of law enforcement, target them, and kill them.
[31:25.950 --> 31:27.050]  And that's what happened in Canada today.
[31:27.150 --> 31:34.010]  That's exactly what happened in Canada, and it's happened in the United Kingdom, and it will happen in America.
[31:34.030 --> 31:36.850]  It absolutely will happen in America.
[31:36.870 --> 31:56.930]  And I will guarantee you that when it happens in America, if it's not somebody walking down the street in uniform that's just randomly attacked, what it's going to be is somebody who's identified through Facebook or somebody who's identified by doing simple search engine activity,
[31:57.210 --> 32:04.710]  looking for a member of the military, using Google facial recognition, or tracking someone to their home.
[32:04.930 --> 32:18.270]  Let me tell you, if I want to find 100 soldiers that have served in Iraq or Afghanistan and go to their homes, I can set that up in 48 hours.
[32:18.450 --> 32:24.730]  And we're going to be demonstrating that, actually, with a particular very well-known elected official.
[32:24.890 --> 32:27.170]  We are going to call for the U.S.
[32:27.310 --> 32:34.090]  government to start doing what's done in a lot of other countries, which is not using the last names of troops.
[32:34.550 --> 32:45.250]  If you, for example, interview a soldier in Israel or in England or in France, it's Captain Y or Sergeant X.
[32:45.630 --> 32:52.890]  In the United States, because we're the U.S., because we're open, they say Captain John Smith.
[32:53.090 --> 32:53.950]  They give the whole name.
[32:54.230 --> 32:57.350]  Not only that, they say Captain John Smith, who hails from Pittsburgh.
[32:57.890 --> 33:00.810]  I mean, Captain John Smith, who hails from Pittsburgh?
[33:01.010 --> 33:02.330]  That's all I need to find his home.
[33:02.510 --> 33:08.130]  But Captain John Smith may be giving this information out on his own anyway because he doesn't see any need to hide that.
[33:08.130 --> 33:11.890]  Well, he needs to be educated that now, unfortunately, there's a need.
[33:13.230 --> 33:16.570]  I mean, look, frankly, we all overshare.
[33:17.010 --> 33:18.210]  We all overshare.
[33:18.330 --> 33:25.270]  But for guys who are in the military or who are in law enforcement, that could be a life-or-death issue now suddenly.
[33:25.550 --> 33:26.650]  The world is changing.
[33:28.850 --> 33:29.210]  Fascinating.
[33:29.670 --> 33:34.510]  Now, Stephen, you have a couple of television... well, a bunch of television appearances.
[33:35.390 --> 33:42.670]  I recall we had a premiere screening at HopeX, which I was not able to see because I was just running around like a crazy person.
[33:43.250 --> 33:45.230]  But tell us something about your TV show.
[33:45.250 --> 33:46.890]  You know, the funny thing is I was a speaker.
[33:47.010 --> 33:51.650]  I was a double speaker at HopeX, and it's your conference, and I didn't see you the whole conference.
[33:51.650 --> 33:51.850]  Yeah.
[33:52.130 --> 33:52.490]  Yeah.
[33:53.010 --> 33:57.170]  I actually sent you an email after the conference saying, sorry about that.
[33:57.350 --> 33:58.570]  Yeah, I took a vacation, actually.
[33:58.710 --> 33:59.630]  I just had to get away.
[34:00.050 --> 34:04.290]  But we're going to hear a little bit from your talking from HopeX in a bit.
[34:04.590 --> 34:07.330]  But the television show is what I'm interested in at the moment.
[34:07.490 --> 34:08.110]  Tell us about that.
[34:10.110 --> 34:12.050]  Frightening to contemplate.
[34:12.250 --> 34:14.510]  But I actually have my own TV show now.
[34:14.750 --> 34:17.070]  I am, as they call it, talent.
[34:17.810 --> 34:21.630]  And I have a show called Nowhere to Hide, quite appropriately called Nowhere.
[34:21.650 --> 34:22.130]  Where to Hide.
[34:22.790 --> 34:25.910]  It's on Discovery ID, Investigation Discovery.
[34:26.910 --> 34:28.190]  Wait, what channel is that?
[34:28.330 --> 34:28.730]  That's...
[34:28.730 --> 34:30.290]  You know, I... Okay.
[34:30.450 --> 34:31.370]  Discovery ID.
[34:31.810 --> 34:34.030]  Okay, let me say, I don't have cable.
[34:34.810 --> 34:36.230]  I don't have cable.
[34:36.430 --> 34:38.110]  I torrent my own show.
[34:38.230 --> 34:38.530]  Wow.
[34:39.170 --> 34:42.390]  You know, which is actually, I think, one of the exemptions.
[34:42.510 --> 34:44.270]  They can't charge me with anything.
[34:44.270 --> 34:50.490]  But, you know, this is a really unique show.
[34:50.630 --> 35:04.010]  This is the first private investigator show that isn't some, either some outlandish character, you know, driving around in a Ferrari with a beautiful woman by his side.
[35:04.010 --> 35:14.170]  Or, as much as I love the Rockford Files, you know, breaking into an office at night with a set of lockpicks or the whole Huggy Bear thing.
[35:15.630 --> 35:17.590]  This is real private investigation.
[35:17.590 --> 35:20.750]  And we show how private investigation is done.
[35:20.930 --> 35:29.550]  We show the tactics and the techniques and client intake and what's involved with working in law enforcement and how you close a case.
[35:29.550 --> 35:37.310]  Last season, we had a murder-for-hire substituting a body, which we broke on screen.
[35:37.830 --> 35:41.330]  We had two family reunifications.
[35:41.920 --> 35:56.850]  We had, you know, an individual in Long Island, John Keenan, who was falsely arrested by a cop who was trying to harass the family, showing, getting him exonerated.
[35:58.010 --> 36:01.610]  You know, really, really tough cases.
[36:01.650 --> 36:09.970]  We showed the psycho stalker of all time, the episode, Three Doctors and a Cat.
[36:11.130 --> 36:12.250]  That sounds intriguing.
[36:12.590 --> 36:14.590]  That was an amazing case.
[36:14.750 --> 36:20.150]  There was a woman who targeted doctors, and one lawyer, but mostly doctors.
[36:20.150 --> 36:22.670]  She would get engaged to them or marry them.
[36:22.870 --> 36:29.190]  And then she would, while they were out, she would call the police, claim that she was beaten or a gun was pointed at her.
[36:29.670 --> 36:33.290]  The cops would come in, arrest this poor schmo, take him away.
[36:33.290 --> 36:34.810]  She would file for divorce.
[36:34.990 --> 36:39.230]  And because the guy's a doctor or a lawyer, if he's convicted, he loses everything.
[36:39.230 --> 36:40.350]  He loses his license.
[36:40.350 --> 36:41.430]  He loses his rep.
[36:41.690 --> 36:43.970]  I mean, 20 years of work.
[36:44.150 --> 36:45.450]  So they settled with her.
[36:45.790 --> 36:49.050]  It was the most clever extortion ever.
[36:49.050 --> 36:50.470]  And how does a cat enter into it?
[36:50.670 --> 37:00.890]  Oh, in two of the cases, she claimed that the person was a sexual pervert who had not only beaten her, but had sexually molested her cat.
[37:01.310 --> 37:03.630]  And that's how we got my client off.
[37:03.790 --> 37:06.090]  My client was doctor number four.
[37:07.650 --> 37:09.810]  And because of the...
[37:09.810 --> 37:11.310]  We are now in the internet here.
[37:11.450 --> 37:15.810]  If this had happened 30 years ago, it would have been much, much harder to break the case.
[37:15.810 --> 37:21.990]  But using databases and using tracking, I was able to find some of the earlier cases.
[37:22.150 --> 37:35.210]  And we were able to show that almost word for word, the accusation against my client, she had made to three prior fiancés or husbands, including in one case, the finger up the behind of the cat allegation.
[37:35.370 --> 37:42.170]  Well, now, I just have to wonder, the intelligence level of somebody who uses the same scam on three different husbands.
[37:42.170 --> 37:42.570]  Well, you know what?
[37:42.650 --> 37:43.950]  It worked for 25 years.
[37:44.110 --> 37:45.170]  That's amazing to me right there.
[37:45.170 --> 37:46.250]  It worked for 25 years.
[37:46.390 --> 37:47.790]  First of all, it wasn't all husbands.
[37:47.990 --> 37:48.910]  She had fiancés.
[37:49.590 --> 37:55.130]  She had a pharmacist that she got $100,000 from who wasn't part of the mix.
[37:55.150 --> 37:56.070]  I never interviewed him.
[37:56.130 --> 37:57.170]  I found out about him later.
[37:57.610 --> 38:00.790]  I have to tell you, this was the most brilliant extortion.
[38:01.170 --> 38:04.290]  She picked people who had everything to lose.
[38:04.290 --> 38:09.150]  She made the most extraordinary, horrific allegations.
[38:09.430 --> 38:11.270]  The people were screwed.
[38:11.550 --> 38:13.670]  The people had to settle up with her.
[38:13.770 --> 38:17.190]  I mean, they gave her fortunes to just go away.
[38:18.510 --> 38:18.950]  Amazing.
[38:19.390 --> 38:24.330]  Well, what's amazing is when I finally found her to serve some papers on her, she was with a new doctor.
[38:25.110 --> 38:26.630]  I bet he was happy to see you.
[38:26.770 --> 38:28.010]  No, I didn't tell him a word.
[38:28.010 --> 38:33.110]  And first of all, it would have been unethical.
[38:33.430 --> 38:46.030]  And on the off chance that she, the very unlikely off chance that this was, you know, her turning over a new leaf, you don't mess with somebody's marriage.
[38:46.230 --> 38:46.950]  You just don't.
[38:47.530 --> 38:54.510]  Now, is this new doctor a potential new, you know, future client of mine?
[38:54.710 --> 38:55.450]  Yeah, maybe.
[38:55.870 --> 38:56.790]  Who knows?
[38:56.790 --> 39:02.750]  But I can announce now, I can announce now, this is new news.
[39:02.890 --> 39:03.730]  All right, pay attention.
[39:03.890 --> 39:04.210]  Pay attention.
[39:04.290 --> 39:06.050]  This is actually reasonably important.
[39:06.430 --> 39:08.530]  I got permission this morning to do this.
[39:08.630 --> 39:11.270]  I can now announce that we've been renewed for a season two.
[39:11.530 --> 39:12.330]  Season two.
[39:12.490 --> 39:13.410]  A season two.
[39:14.790 --> 39:31.010]  As and of particular interest to your listeners, you know, I'll back up and I'll say, I announced at Hope 9 that we were looking at doing this show at Hope X, Hope 10 that just ended.
[39:31.110 --> 39:32.670]  We premiered the show.
[39:32.990 --> 39:38.310]  I am now announcing on this radio program that we've been renewed for season two.
[39:38.450 --> 39:40.890]  This is the first time this has been announced.
[39:40.890 --> 39:57.110]  And I will tell you that for a couple of the episodes, which I am specifically prohibited from describing in detail, I will tell you that a couple of these episodes have a very significant hacker component.
[39:57.110 --> 40:05.430]  I will tell you that there was one multi, multi-million dollar fraud, a valuable item.
[40:05.550 --> 40:12.050]  I won't tell you the valuable item, but it is a valuable item that is a household word, a household name.
[40:12.870 --> 40:19.570]  Somebody was about to get ripped off for $50 million, 55 if you count the commission he was going to have to pay.
[40:19.830 --> 40:26.150]  And we solved it with the assistance of people in the hacker community by doing some technical things.
[40:26.450 --> 40:28.870]  And all of these people are going to be on air.
[40:29.650 --> 40:37.430]  One guy from the old MOD, if you don't know what that is, Google it, came out of retirement to help me on this.
[40:37.670 --> 40:38.290]  Masters of deception.
[40:38.790 --> 40:40.190]  I'll take your word for it.
[40:42.170 --> 40:43.230]  Actually, that's correct.
[40:44.330 --> 40:46.610]  I mean, that's the early, early days.
[40:46.770 --> 40:48.030]  That was on this show.
[40:48.190 --> 40:49.750]  We talked about that when it was happening.
[40:50.090 --> 40:51.930]  So yeah, we're very much tied into this.
[40:51.930 --> 41:00.510]  I think the only people older than that were my buddy Cheshire and maybe Wozniak.
[41:00.530 --> 41:01.090]  I don't know.
[41:01.310 --> 41:03.910]  But those were the old fellas.
[41:04.210 --> 41:16.690]  And I will tell you that these guys today, a lot of those guys are pretty remarkable good guys.
[41:16.990 --> 41:19.110]  I think they were mischaracterized then.
[41:19.290 --> 41:23.950]  And, you know, they're pretty wonderful guys now.
[41:24.390 --> 41:33.010]  Well, Steve, assuming they congratulated you when they told you this news earlier, let me be the second person to congratulate you on the second season of your show.
[41:33.190 --> 41:33.710]  How many episodes?
[41:35.030 --> 41:35.890]  Good question.
[41:35.890 --> 41:37.310]  I know at least six.
[41:37.610 --> 41:37.670]  Okay.
[41:37.730 --> 41:38.790]  How many were in this season?
[41:38.970 --> 41:39.910]  Last was six.
[41:40.110 --> 41:40.330]  Six.
[41:40.330 --> 41:46.090]  But, you know, they are regularly rerun.
[41:47.090 --> 41:49.990]  They're available on...
[41:50.750 --> 41:54.170]  I mean, there's no point telling this to your listeners.
[41:54.170 --> 41:56.750]  I know where they get their digital downloads.
[41:56.970 --> 41:58.610]  But it's on iTunes.
[41:58.610 --> 41:59.830]  It's on Google Play.
[41:59.950 --> 42:00.690]  It's on Amazon.
[42:00.690 --> 42:01.690]  It's on YouTube.
[42:02.010 --> 42:03.090]  Every single episode.
[42:03.090 --> 42:05.550]  It's called Nowhere to Hide, or you can plug in my name.
[42:05.550 --> 42:22.450]  But I will tell you that after episode five, which was the one that was premiered at Hope X, I went out to Pirate Bay, just out of curiosity, and it said Cedars, 2,633.
[42:23.490 --> 42:23.890]  Wow.
[42:24.050 --> 42:25.210]  That's a good number anyway.
[42:25.330 --> 42:26.190]  It's a very good number.
[42:26.390 --> 42:28.430]  I mean, it's not Game of Thrones, but it ain't bad.
[42:28.530 --> 42:29.510]  But, I mean, that's...
[42:29.510 --> 42:33.110]  I know you said that the network was a little upset by that, but that's actually a good thing.
[42:33.110 --> 42:34.530]  Well, it wasn't the network.
[42:34.530 --> 42:43.950]  A guy from a related entity, one of the production companies, said to me, holy cow, I mean, people are downloading this.
[42:44.030 --> 42:49.730]  I said, yeah, because it's not on the air in Europe, and, you know, what are you going to do?
[42:49.730 --> 42:50.890]  I take it as a compliment.
[42:52.050 --> 42:52.810]  Most definitely.
[42:53.650 --> 43:02.270]  And so, Nowhere to Hide, you can find it on demand, too, I imagine, on various digital cable platforms, and you can find it all over the internet.
[43:02.270 --> 43:09.550]  I don't know why anybody would be upset that it's on the internet, because people should watch the show, and that's one way to see it, however you're able to get a copy.
[43:10.150 --> 43:13.250]  But you were also on something on CNN earlier this year, where you know...
[43:13.250 --> 43:15.410]  Oh, I have to tell you, that was wonderful.
[43:15.590 --> 43:16.410]  That was a great show.
[43:16.450 --> 43:17.010]  I saw that one.
[43:17.010 --> 43:19.150]  It was a phenomenal show.
[43:19.270 --> 43:21.250]  There's a guy by the name of Morgan Spurlock.
[43:22.430 --> 43:27.310]  Everybody seems to remember him from Supersize Me and that stuff.
[43:27.310 --> 43:28.490]  He is...
[43:28.490 --> 43:30.350]  I got to tell you, he's my kind of guy.
[43:30.890 --> 43:34.190]  If I was going to be a journalist, I would be Morgan Spurlock.
[43:35.250 --> 43:36.510]  Or Charlie LeDuff.
[43:36.770 --> 43:37.170]  Charlie...
[43:37.170 --> 43:41.770]  I'm very critical of portrayals of technologically related things.
[43:41.930 --> 43:46.610]  And I have to say, I found it very difficult to find anything that was misportrayed in that particular hour.
[43:46.610 --> 43:47.350]  I should hope so.
[43:47.350 --> 43:48.490]  I was the tech advisor.
[43:48.530 --> 43:49.170]  Yeah, it was really...
[43:49.170 --> 43:49.930]  And on camera.
[43:58.270 --> 44:07.530]  I got a waiver from some poor schnook who was a...
[44:09.090 --> 44:10.870]  I don't know what they call him.
[44:10.870 --> 44:15.130]  A field producer in Morgan's Enterprise.
[44:15.570 --> 44:17.690]  And we basically tracked him.
[44:17.830 --> 44:22.630]  We grabbed his photo off various sites.
[44:22.750 --> 44:23.910]  We tracked him through Twitter.
[44:24.010 --> 44:25.530]  We tracked him through his cell phone.
[44:25.530 --> 44:28.270]  We showed him literally walking down the street.
[44:28.470 --> 44:32.010]  We showed his little icon bobbing down Amsterdam Avenue.
[44:34.270 --> 44:37.650]  And my understanding is that the feedback was extraordinary.
[44:38.090 --> 44:38.430]  Yeah.
[44:38.550 --> 44:40.130]  I don't know how you can see that now.
[44:40.130 --> 44:41.730]  I'm not sure if that's available anywhere.
[44:41.950 --> 44:42.650]  Oh, yeah, it is.
[44:42.650 --> 44:43.490]  I'm sure it is.
[44:43.650 --> 44:43.710]  Okay.
[44:44.830 --> 44:47.470]  I'm trying to think of what the heck it was called.
[44:47.610 --> 44:48.510]  Inside Man, was it?
[44:48.650 --> 44:49.430]  Inside Man.
[44:49.470 --> 44:49.630]  Yeah.
[44:49.710 --> 44:50.090]  Thank you.
[44:50.310 --> 44:51.630]  And I guess if you just look for that...
[44:51.630 --> 44:53.950]  I'm embarrassed that I was on it and you know better than me.
[44:53.950 --> 44:57.950]  So many titles, so many things that you're involved in, it's quite forgivable.
[44:58.250 --> 44:59.290]  Bernie, did you happen to see that?
[44:59.630 --> 45:00.190]  I did.
[45:00.330 --> 45:02.110]  It was really well done.
[45:02.350 --> 45:03.250]  And I was impressed.
[45:03.450 --> 45:04.170]  He gave me a heads up.
[45:04.290 --> 45:04.930]  It was going to be on.
[45:05.030 --> 45:05.950]  And I checked it out.
[45:06.030 --> 45:10.650]  And it's like, wow, this is like the first realistic portrayal I'd ever seen of this on television.
[45:10.650 --> 45:21.110]  There are two guys who really do tech right and who, by the way, are also pretty phenomenal investigative reporters.
[45:21.110 --> 45:25.190]  One is Morgan Spurlock and the other is Charlie LeDuff.
[45:25.690 --> 45:27.570]  LeDuff is an amazing guy also.
[45:27.930 --> 45:28.310]  All right.
[45:28.350 --> 45:33.510]  Well, it's important to acknowledge people when they get the story right as much as it is to acknowledge them when they mess it up.
[45:33.570 --> 45:34.650]  And that happens quite often.
[45:34.990 --> 45:35.070]  Yep.
[45:35.650 --> 45:44.790]  Okay, we are here with Stephen Rombaum talking about privacy, talking about how things have changed over the decades and what to look forward to in the future.
[45:44.950 --> 45:47.430]  This is part of WBAI's Autumn Fundraiser.
[45:47.610 --> 45:52.130]  What we are offering is every talk that Stephen has given at the HOPE conferences.
[45:52.790 --> 45:58.110]  And you will be amazed by some of the things that he has predicted well in advance.
[45:58.110 --> 46:03.770]  And you will also learn about what's coming in the future with this premium.
[46:03.770 --> 46:09.710]  $75 premium, you'll get a flash drive filled with all of his talks, full video and everything.
[46:10.010 --> 46:15.510]  For a pledge of $125, you'll get every talk at our last conference, HOPEX.
[46:15.830 --> 46:36.050]  That's something like 100 different talks from 100 different speakers, Steve, of course, being one of them, including Edward Snowden, including Daniel Ellsberg, and a cast of over 100 people that will be in your computer with a 64-gig thumb drive or 232-gig thumb drives,
[46:36.150 --> 46:37.910]  depending on which one we have at the moment.
[46:38.830 --> 46:40.350]  212-209-2950.
[46:40.510 --> 46:43.310]  I know we've been getting a bunch of calls, and I hope we get more calls.
[46:43.490 --> 46:46.850]  Again, the full set for HOPEX, we only have 10 of those.
[46:47.050 --> 46:50.270]  So once that number is reached, we can no longer offer that.
[46:50.270 --> 46:59.350]  We have, I believe, a total of 25 for the Stephen package, so you have a little bit more space to call and pledge for that.
[46:59.430 --> 47:00.670]  But again, once it's gone, it's gone.
[47:01.190 --> 47:03.490]  212-209-2950.
[47:03.490 --> 47:17.010]  If you've found yourself listening to the radio now, listening to some of the things that we've been talking about as far as how you are monitored, how your data is bought and sold, consider supporting that kind of conversation.
[47:17.010 --> 47:20.270]  Consider supporting a radio station where this is talked about freely.
[47:21.270 --> 47:27.750]  And, you know, Stephen, I know that we have many differences in politics and all sorts of things.
[47:27.890 --> 47:33.430]  And that's part of the beauty of it all, because freedom of speech is what this place is all about.
[47:33.510 --> 47:45.850]  And you'll find that many other places in the broadcast style are very concerned about sponsors and things you can't say and people you might offend.
[47:46.390 --> 47:50.690]  And, you know, we kind of here at WBAI, we kind of assume that everyone's going to be offended in the end anyway.
[47:50.690 --> 47:52.630]  So let's just speak freely, at least.
[47:52.770 --> 47:52.850]  Right.
[47:53.610 --> 48:07.170]  Look, I have to tell you, I mean, I'm the most amazing thing about the HOPE conferences and about, you know, the 2600 enterprise in general is the absolute lack of censorship.
[48:07.670 --> 48:13.190]  I mean, this is one of the few places in publishing or in media that you're going to find that.
[48:13.190 --> 48:20.550]  And I am admittedly one of the more right wing people that you will ever meet in any environment.
[48:20.790 --> 48:23.030]  And I feel absolutely at home at HOPE.
[48:23.110 --> 48:38.890]  And I feel absolutely at home, you know, doing off the hook or collaborating with 2600 magazine or any of the related enterprises, because, you know, it all comes down to information needing to be free, information needing to be out there.
[48:38.890 --> 48:48.230]  You know, the great thing about Off the Hook and HOPE and 2600 is it doesn't try to tell you what to think.
[48:48.370 --> 48:50.390]  It just gives you what to think about.
[48:51.090 --> 48:51.790]  That's nice.
[48:51.810 --> 48:52.590]  I like that tag.
[48:52.810 --> 48:54.170]  That's exactly it.
[48:54.210 --> 48:54.770]  It's yours.
[48:55.030 --> 48:55.430]  All right.
[48:55.490 --> 48:55.830]  Keep it.
[48:56.190 --> 49:05.690]  Well, 212-209-2950, that's the number to call to pledge your support at WBAI to continue conversations like this and to get a really nifty premium in addition to that.
[49:05.690 --> 49:12.290]  But all of Stephen's talks from the beginning until now, for a pledge of $75, all of them will appear on a flash drive.
[49:12.630 --> 49:22.610]  And for a pledge of $125, you'll get the entire HOPEX conference with 100 different speakers talking about all kinds of hacker-related items, including Steve with his latest talk.
[49:22.730 --> 49:29.110]  What we're going to do now is go back in time a little bit to H2K2, which was in 2000...
[49:29.110 --> 49:29.630]  Actually, I'm sorry.
[49:29.690 --> 49:30.130]  I have that wrong.
[49:31.130 --> 49:33.330]  This is The Fifth Hope in 2004.
[49:34.850 --> 49:36.230]  And actually, you're referring...
[49:36.230 --> 49:40.650]  In this particular clip, you're referring to H2K, but you meant H2K2 because that was the most recent one.
[49:40.690 --> 49:41.510]  I know it gets confusing.
[49:42.690 --> 49:43.010]  And...
[49:43.010 --> 49:44.110]  I don't even know what you're going to play.
[49:44.250 --> 49:44.570]  Yeah.
[49:44.810 --> 49:45.830]  It's a complete surprise.
[49:45.830 --> 49:46.750]  I'm not even sure of myself.
[49:46.890 --> 49:47.970]  I do know it's from 2004.
[49:48.630 --> 49:52.210]  I do know you're referring to H2K2 when you say H2K.
[49:52.970 --> 49:57.370]  And I do know that this is the intermission music from Hope X.
[49:59.390 --> 50:12.190]  And I do know that when I look at the phones next, they will be all lit up with people calling 212-209-2950 to get this amazing package offered only tonight during the special two-hour edition of Off the Hook.
[50:12.550 --> 50:17.250]  Let's go back to 2004 and hear part of Steve's talk then.
[50:17.370 --> 50:19.330]  Again, 212-209-2950.
[50:19.330 --> 50:27.130]  It's true that during H2K, I had a rather strong difference of opinion with Jello Biafra.
[50:28.310 --> 50:38.150]  Unfortunately, during the past two years, I have been driven a lot... well, kicking and screaming a lot closer to his position.
[50:39.290 --> 50:52.650]  In the past two years, we've seen in this country an enormous erosion of personal privacy, personal liberty, personal rights, and especially, right to privacy.
[50:54.470 --> 51:00.690]  It has always been considered in this country to be a basic human right.
[51:01.170 --> 51:07.170]  The right to privacy, the right to be left alone, as it was once described by the Supreme Court.
[51:09.670 --> 51:22.130]  That right and the ability to keep your affairs private, even your most intimate affairs private, has now been completely eliminated.
[51:25.000 --> 51:39.850]  There has been a lot of debate over the past two years about the Patriot Act, about total information awareness, terrorist information, action network, the DARPA activities.
[51:41.730 --> 52:04.330]  What I hope to do today is to give you enough information, more than enough information regarding just what's available out there on each individual person, and to help you make an informed decision about the Patriot Act, about DARPA's projects, about,
[52:04.510 --> 52:06.190]  frankly, the upcoming election.
[52:10.990 --> 52:17.270]  Wozniak gave me the best segue that he possibly could when he started talking about what was fundamentally American.
[52:17.730 --> 52:27.110]  In this country, there's always been a level playing field, or, in theory, a level playing field, between the government and the private citizen.
[52:27.890 --> 52:32.490]  Supposedly, the government was not entitled to anything that you weren't entitled to.
[52:33.310 --> 52:35.350]  Information was supposed to be free.
[52:35.350 --> 52:39.630]  If there was a property record, you were entitled to that record.
[52:40.090 --> 52:44.770]  If there was a voter registration, you were entitled to see that voter registration.
[52:45.230 --> 52:53.490]  If someone compiled a file on you, you were entitled to see that file, if for no other reason than to correct the errors in it.
[52:55.150 --> 53:19.190]  What has happened over the past two years, like never before in the history of the United States, is that your most intimate secrets, your most confidential information, has been catalogued, cross-referenced, data mined, compiled, conglomerated, and made available to the U.S.
[53:19.350 --> 53:22.150]  government by private industry.
[53:22.150 --> 53:28.330]  And because it's been made available by private industry, law and regulation doesn't control it.
[53:28.550 --> 53:30.170]  You have no right to look at it.
[53:30.550 --> 53:32.670]  Freedom of Information Act doesn't cover it.
[53:35.070 --> 53:42.530]  Now, there are very, very good reasons for information to be out there and to be available.
[53:42.530 --> 53:50.190]  If you're hiring a nanny, you should be able to determine if this nanny was a child molester or charged with assault.
[53:50.710 --> 53:55.990]  If you have a housekeeper, you have a right to know if this person's been arrested for burglary.
[53:56.050 --> 54:03.190]  If there's a school bus driver, you really have a right to know if that person has a drunk driving conviction before he drives your kid.
[54:04.310 --> 54:12.290]  If you hire an employee, it's probably useful to know if this person's ever been involved in an act of workplace violence.
[54:12.610 --> 54:17.470]  If you lend somebody money, you should know what their credit rating is.
[54:17.790 --> 54:19.810]  All of these things make sense.
[54:21.490 --> 54:25.610]  They especially make sense when you talk about public figures.
[54:25.790 --> 54:31.750]  You have a right to know what John Kerry's military record is.
[54:31.750 --> 54:37.570]  You have a right to know what George Bush and Cheney's financial dealings were.
[54:40.130 --> 54:44.030]  Information should be available to everyone equally.
[54:44.250 --> 54:47.410]  That's basic American philosophy.
[54:51.480 --> 55:07.080]  What I'm going to do over the next half hour or less is give you the Reader's Digest version of databases, privacy, what's available out there.
[55:07.300 --> 55:13.400]  I'm then going to take one or two victims from the audience, one or two volunteers from the audience,
[55:20.720 --> 55:23.820]  Unfortunately, I've just been handed a social security number.
[55:23.980 --> 55:29.940]  Unfortunately, when we get to that, the person whose social security number this is is going to have to stand up and volunteer.
[55:29.940 --> 55:32.160]  I'm not going to just randomly run an SSN.
[55:32.320 --> 55:35.920]  This is probably Jack Valenti's social security number.
[55:45.810 --> 55:51.450]  What I'm going to do is I'm going to give you the Reader's Digest survey of what's out there.
[55:51.630 --> 56:02.010]  I'm then going to demonstrate what's out there rather graphically by logging on to what's called a personal reference database and running a couple of people here.
[56:02.010 --> 56:12.670]  And then we're going to do questions and answers because, frankly, your questions usually elicit better information than I would ever think to speak about on my own.
[56:13.570 --> 56:14.250]  All right.
[56:14.330 --> 56:22.110]  That is an excerpt from 2004, the Fifth Hope Conference at the Hotel Pennsylvania in New York with Stephen Rombaum.
[56:22.210 --> 56:28.390]  And, you know, you mentioned something there about the questions that people ask from our audience.
[56:28.390 --> 56:36.350]  And just basically, I guess, how this crowd is different than most that you might be speaking in front of.
[56:37.830 --> 56:38.990]  What's unique about them?
[56:39.130 --> 56:40.350]  Look, I'll tell you two things.
[56:40.490 --> 56:46.630]  First of all, it is not a good idea to be a speaker at Hope X unless you're prepared.
[56:47.570 --> 56:54.870]  Because this is one of the sharpest crowds, and they will not tolerate bull.
[56:56.570 --> 57:05.030]  You know, I've seen people who are unprepared or who are posers try to speak at Hope and get shredded.
[57:05.510 --> 57:08.350]  And undeservedly so.
[57:08.630 --> 57:12.870]  And they leave, you know, a bloody pulp.
[57:13.350 --> 57:13.750]  Not true.
[57:13.750 --> 57:15.610]  It is absolutely true.
[57:15.610 --> 57:26.670]  And, you know, let me tell you, I spend a couple of days doing nothing but preparing my presentation and preparing for Hope.
[57:26.670 --> 57:39.130]  And I will tell you that still, at the end, I mean, every once in a while, I run over a wee little bit my allotted time.
[57:39.130 --> 57:45.450]  But in the Q&A session, I have to tell you, the questions are phenomenal.
[57:45.970 --> 57:46.890]  They're phenomenal.
[57:47.110 --> 57:51.630]  I mean, that's what happened in Hope X a couple of months ago.
[57:51.790 --> 57:56.750]  The questions at the end of my privacy talk were astounding.
[57:56.750 --> 58:11.430]  And when we did the shorter talk, the one-hour premiere of the TV show, the questions that came before and after were also amazing.
[58:12.110 --> 58:18.030]  You know, if you're a speaker at Hope, you leave with your IQ about 20 points higher.
[58:18.130 --> 58:21.110]  And your talks are generally about three hours in length, too.
[58:21.250 --> 58:21.870]  No, one of them.
[58:21.950 --> 58:22.370]  One of them.
[58:22.410 --> 58:23.270]  The privacy one.
[58:23.270 --> 58:28.110]  Yeah, but I mean, that's an incredibly long period of time, prepared or not.
[58:28.290 --> 58:31.490]  Well, I'm a mere shadow of what's-his-name.
[58:32.570 --> 58:34.670]  Who's the guy that spoke for eight hours once?
[58:34.930 --> 58:35.670]  Oh, Robert Steele.
[58:35.750 --> 58:36.550]  Yeah, Robert Steele.
[58:36.550 --> 58:38.270]  Yeah, that's something to behold.
[58:39.090 --> 58:39.890]  Yeah, for sure.
[58:39.970 --> 58:41.330]  Without a bathroom break, I heard.
[58:41.410 --> 58:42.050]  No, he did.
[58:42.330 --> 58:42.710]  Oh, did he?
[58:42.750 --> 58:44.190]  Yeah, that's on record.
[58:44.710 --> 58:47.390]  But that's just the uniqueness of the Hope Conference.
[58:47.890 --> 58:49.990]  Let me just say right now that it's 8 o'clock.
[58:49.990 --> 58:51.350]  You're listening to WBAI New York.
[58:51.350 --> 58:56.230]  If you're tuning in for the personal computer show, it's my sad duty to inform you that it is not on tonight.
[58:56.650 --> 58:57.830]  I don't know if it's on next week.
[58:57.870 --> 58:58.590]  I think it is.
[58:58.690 --> 59:00.230]  But we're not on next week.
[59:00.310 --> 59:00.870]  This is Off the Hook.
[59:01.010 --> 59:02.290]  We're going for an additional hour.
[59:02.430 --> 59:12.730]  We have Stephen Rombaum in the studio with us talking about privacy, being a private investigator, how your privacy is being bought and sold every single day, what you can do to protect yourself.
[59:13.130 --> 59:15.750]  We are offering some incredible premiums tonight.
[59:15.750 --> 59:18.910]  Please call before they are all gone.
[59:19.050 --> 59:20.910]  212-209-2950.
[59:20.950 --> 59:23.970]  For a pledge of $75, you'll get all of Steve's talks.
[59:24.130 --> 59:26.130]  And as I mentioned, some of them are three hours in length.
[59:26.130 --> 59:27.150]  A bunch of them are.
[59:27.530 --> 59:35.970]  You'll get a flash drive filled with his talks starting 20 years ago and going up until this past summer.
[59:35.970 --> 59:47.270]  For a pledge of $125, while supplies last, you'll get a flash drive or two flash drives, depending on what kind we get, filled with every single talk at the recently concluded Hope X conference.
[59:47.490 --> 59:49.170]  That's 100 talks, I believe.
[59:49.850 --> 59:52.450]  So either way, it's an incredible deal.
[59:52.670 --> 59:54.190]  You're getting all kinds of content.
[59:54.190 --> 59:56.170]  You will learn so much from this.
[59:56.330 --> 01:00:05.410]  Just if you find yourself listening to the radio now, imagine multiplying that by 20 or 100 or whatever you decide to get.
[01:00:05.530 --> 01:00:07.510]  212-209-2950.
[01:00:07.510 --> 01:00:13.090]  We need to have a strong showing to keep this radio station afloat, to keep this show on the air.
[01:00:13.470 --> 01:00:15.430]  It's of vital importance.
[01:00:15.750 --> 01:00:22.210]  And Stephen has been good enough to come down tonight for the full two hours and share information with us.
[01:00:23.250 --> 01:00:23.810]  Absolutely.
[01:00:25.910 --> 01:00:30.010]  Anything more recent that in the last, say, couple of weeks...
[01:00:30.010 --> 01:00:34.730]  I saw this story, I thought of you, concerning New York City's phone booths.
[01:00:34.790 --> 01:00:37.190]  The advertising displays have tiny radio transmitters.
[01:00:37.250 --> 01:00:38.010]  Well, these are the beacons.
[01:00:38.150 --> 01:00:38.310]  The beacons.
[01:00:38.310 --> 01:00:39.770]  This is exactly what I was talking about.
[01:00:39.790 --> 01:00:42.550]  That's where they're hiding them, in the phone booths, in the old phone booths.
[01:00:42.850 --> 01:00:43.570]  They're everywhere.
[01:00:43.810 --> 01:00:46.030]  They're at the entrance to stadiums.
[01:00:46.110 --> 01:00:57.130]  You walk into a stadium, and if you're known to be a consumer of hot dogs, you get a 20% off coupon to try to drive you to the hot dog stand.
[01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:05.970]  You know, if you buy beer on your credit card, they remind you about the giant beer offerings that are there.
[01:01:06.210 --> 01:01:10.110]  I mean, these are primarily for tracking and advertising.
[01:01:10.450 --> 01:01:23.650]  But I have to tell you that there is not the slightest doubt in my mind that every time that you hit a beacon, it is going to be added into a database.
[01:01:24.090 --> 01:01:28.750]  And after a year or two or three, I will know your entire life.
[01:01:29.130 --> 01:01:31.910]  I'll know, did you go to a liquor store?
[01:01:32.090 --> 01:01:39.470]  I'll know, did you go to a place with fatty foods?
[01:01:39.670 --> 01:01:45.190]  You know, a lot of this is being offered now to HMOs and health companies.
[01:01:45.710 --> 01:01:47.170]  You know, does this guy drink?
[01:01:47.290 --> 01:01:48.750]  Does this guy eat bad food?
[01:01:48.750 --> 01:01:52.190]  Does this guy keep strange hours?
[01:01:53.350 --> 01:01:55.630]  You know, is this person a health risk?
[01:01:56.990 --> 01:01:57.350]  Wow.
[01:01:57.550 --> 01:02:04.630]  And all of this information being shared, being sold, and being used to basically target us.
[01:02:04.870 --> 01:02:07.550]  With absolutely no restriction whatsoever.
[01:02:08.170 --> 01:02:10.430]  And by the way, not just no restriction.
[01:02:10.690 --> 01:02:15.410]  In most cases, you have mindlessly opted into this.
[01:02:16.410 --> 01:02:18.150]  So you can give an example of that.
[01:02:18.150 --> 01:02:19.810]  Well, I'll give you the perfect example.
[01:02:19.810 --> 01:02:23.270]  The new Apple payment system.
[01:02:23.650 --> 01:02:31.370]  You know, people don't use their iPhone or their credit cards for minor commercial transactions.
[01:02:32.290 --> 01:02:36.410]  Although I'm starting to see people swiping credit cards at Starbucks.
[01:02:36.410 --> 01:02:39.350]  Probably because they charge $40 for a cup of coffee.
[01:02:39.550 --> 01:02:44.530]  But, you know, most people still use cash for small transactions.
[01:02:45.310 --> 01:02:52.430]  Your cell phone will now be a method to track everything that you do and everywhere you go.
[01:02:52.590 --> 01:02:56.170]  You are going to be self-tagged like a moose.
[01:02:56.430 --> 01:02:59.310]  Like wildlife with a tracking collar.
[01:02:59.310 --> 01:03:02.870]  I will know everything that you do and everywhere you go.
[01:03:03.390 --> 01:03:13.350]  And frankly, once you build this type of profile, even if you stop contributing to it, people are creatures of very, very narrow habit.
[01:03:13.350 --> 01:03:28.670]  I will know that Emmanuel has got to have his double shot mocha latte grande, whatever the heck it's called, at exactly 745 as he's walking to the Long Island Railroad.
[01:03:28.670 --> 01:03:35.410]  Now, by the way, I happen to know you're probably asleep at 745, but the example stands.
[01:03:35.910 --> 01:03:43.730]  I try to wander into different coffee shops and buy a different drink every time and never show up at the same time.
[01:03:43.830 --> 01:03:44.630]  Does that help?
[01:03:45.250 --> 01:03:46.270]  I don't believe you.
[01:03:46.350 --> 01:03:46.630]  Okay.
[01:03:47.030 --> 01:03:48.010]  There's that, too.
[01:03:48.750 --> 01:03:49.210]  But, wow.
[01:03:49.350 --> 01:03:49.550]  Okay.
[01:03:49.690 --> 01:03:52.690]  So, we're going to get into this more in the next hour.
[01:03:53.010 --> 01:03:55.050]  But I just want to ask you this quick question.
[01:03:55.230 --> 01:03:56.770]  What can people do?
[01:03:56.970 --> 01:03:58.290]  It sounds almost hopeless.
[01:03:58.670 --> 01:03:59.770]  You know what?
[01:03:59.990 --> 01:04:02.570]  I used to give a talk, privacy is dead.
[01:04:03.690 --> 01:04:06.550]  Now, it's so far beyond that.
[01:04:07.030 --> 01:04:09.690]  Privacy can never be resurrected.
[01:04:10.230 --> 01:04:21.450]  You would have to take somebody when they're entering grade school and modify their entire life to the point where they would practically be the Unabomber.
[01:04:22.030 --> 01:04:23.830]  You just can't.
[01:04:23.990 --> 01:04:24.870]  You just can't.
[01:04:24.870 --> 01:04:29.870]  A lot of this surrender of information is mandated now.
[01:04:29.870 --> 01:04:34.490]  I mean, you get your lesson plans electronically.
[01:04:34.750 --> 01:04:37.570]  You submit your papers electronically.
[01:04:38.190 --> 01:04:38.930]  You do...
[01:04:38.930 --> 01:04:47.170]  I mean, as a student, even as a junior high school student, you're already leaving this digital imprint.
[01:04:47.170 --> 01:04:50.410]  You know, you're establishing your digital persona.
[01:04:50.650 --> 01:05:05.930]  By the time you're in high school, you're Facebooking and you're tweeting and you're participating in all sorts of chat rooms and you're doing, you know, probably your first nude selfie at 14 and what have you.
[01:05:05.930 --> 01:05:10.350]  I mean, by the time you're in college, it's out of your control.
[01:05:10.530 --> 01:05:11.530]  You can never go back.
[01:05:12.350 --> 01:05:15.430]  And I will tell you one thing.
[01:05:15.990 --> 01:05:21.150]  Once you surrender a digital item, it is out of your control forever.
[01:05:21.510 --> 01:05:23.210]  It will be repurposed.
[01:05:23.330 --> 01:05:24.790]  It will be redistributed.
[01:05:25.310 --> 01:05:27.390]  You have no control over it whatsoever.
[01:05:27.890 --> 01:05:31.550]  So, should we just embrace this and do the best we can?
[01:05:31.550 --> 01:05:33.130]  Because it really sounds hopeless.
[01:05:33.310 --> 01:05:36.390]  It sounds like there's nothing we can do to salvage any remaining privacy.
[01:05:39.270 --> 01:05:46.410]  Well, to stay off the digital grid, you have to be obsessive about it.
[01:05:46.450 --> 01:05:47.930]  You have to be very, very careful.
[01:05:48.090 --> 01:05:50.150]  And the truth is, it's a lot of work.
[01:05:50.190 --> 01:05:51.190]  It's a pain in the butt.
[01:05:51.190 --> 01:05:59.030]  And 99% of the world is not going to give up the convenience of buying a cup of coffee just by waiving their phone.
[01:06:00.550 --> 01:06:01.830]  I mean, people...
[01:06:01.830 --> 01:06:05.530]  How hard is it to reach into your pocket and get a $5 bill or however much it costs?
[01:06:06.450 --> 01:06:10.250]  Apparently, it is not as easy as waiving your phone.
[01:06:10.410 --> 01:06:16.050]  So, do you think people are embracing this so much because of the convenience or because they honestly don't care?
[01:06:16.050 --> 01:06:17.230]  They feel they have nothing to hide.
[01:06:17.230 --> 01:06:18.530]  It's absolutely both.
[01:06:18.530 --> 01:06:21.570]  See, that's a perfect example of a good question.
[01:06:21.730 --> 01:06:23.130]  It's absolutely both.
[01:06:23.290 --> 01:06:29.990]  First of all, you know, look, when I was growing up, when I was a teenager, there was a saying, I wouldn't have told that.
[01:06:30.130 --> 01:06:32.130]  That was the saying, I wouldn't have told that.
[01:06:32.370 --> 01:06:35.050]  There were things that you did not share.
[01:06:35.270 --> 01:06:44.710]  But people talk about, you know, drug use, criminal activity, sexual orientation, extreme politics.
[01:06:44.710 --> 01:06:50.070]  I mean, they post and tweet and share everything.
[01:06:50.410 --> 01:06:52.890]  And if they don't, maybe the person you're talking to will.
[01:06:53.070 --> 01:06:54.050]  That's exactly right.
[01:06:54.270 --> 01:06:59.510]  You know, I teach at the undercover school for...
[01:06:59.510 --> 01:07:00.250]  The undercover school.
[01:07:00.250 --> 01:07:06.290]  The undercover school for a particularly well-known three-letter federal agency.
[01:07:06.290 --> 01:07:18.790]  They train their undercover agents how to go undercover, maintain their cover, and essentially not be compromised and possibly injured or killed.
[01:07:18.790 --> 01:07:23.350]  I teach what not to do.
[01:07:23.590 --> 01:07:36.530]  How if I was a crooked private investigator, a bad private investigator, hired by a mob guy, and I was trying to determine if you were an undercover agent, what I would do.
[01:07:37.190 --> 01:07:44.230]  And I have to tell you, it is astoundingly difficult to do a long-term undercover these days.
[01:07:44.230 --> 01:07:50.090]  Because you have to have a Facebook that goes back in time.
[01:07:50.330 --> 01:07:53.210]  You've got to have a 10-year history of addresses.
[01:07:53.730 --> 01:07:57.330]  It's so damn easy to...
[01:07:57.330 --> 01:08:02.830]  Okay, you know, drug dealer Bob who wants to buy my product.
[01:08:03.110 --> 01:08:04.710]  Where'd you go to high school?
[01:08:05.750 --> 01:08:13.610]  And then somebody with an email is sent to that high school for a copy of the yearbook.
[01:08:13.730 --> 01:08:15.850]  If it's not your picture, you're dead.
[01:08:15.990 --> 01:08:17.750]  By the way, literally possibly.
[01:08:18.210 --> 01:08:18.470]  Interesting.
[01:08:18.690 --> 01:08:26.010]  I can tell you that the outlaw motorcycle gang now requires you to fill out a four-page application.
[01:08:26.530 --> 01:08:30.830]  So motorcycle gangs and drug dealers are doing background checks.
[01:08:31.130 --> 01:08:32.010]  That's exactly right.
[01:08:32.010 --> 01:08:34.810]  And by the way, good background checks.
[01:08:34.990 --> 01:08:38.530]  Better background checks than a lot of Fortune 500 companies.
[01:08:38.850 --> 01:08:41.370]  Because they don't just take the questionnaire.
[01:08:41.590 --> 01:08:43.990]  They investigate every line.
[01:08:44.210 --> 01:08:46.130]  They investigate the SSN.
[01:08:46.210 --> 01:08:48.050]  They investigate the DOB.
[01:08:48.250 --> 01:08:52.650]  They investigate, okay, you say this is where you've lived for the past 15 years.
[01:08:52.770 --> 01:09:00.450]  They actually send people with your photo to that apartment complex or to that neighborhood or to that high school.
[01:09:00.450 --> 01:09:06.690]  If you are doing an in-depth, long-term undercover, it's a nightmare.
[01:09:08.130 --> 01:09:12.030]  Steve Rombaum here with us on Off the Hook Expanded Edition tonight.
[01:09:12.370 --> 01:09:15.710]  Again, the phone number is 212-209-2950.
[01:09:16.030 --> 01:09:18.010]  Take advantage of the special offer tonight.
[01:09:18.010 --> 01:09:20.670]  All of Stephen's talks from all the HOPE conferences.
[01:09:20.890 --> 01:09:24.570]  For a pledge of $75, you will get it on a flash drive.
[01:09:24.850 --> 01:09:32.410]  And a pledge of $125 gets you every single talk from the recently concluded HOPEX conference in July here in New York City.
[01:09:32.550 --> 01:09:33.770]  That's 100 different talks.
[01:09:33.910 --> 01:09:36.810]  212-209-2950.
[01:09:37.030 --> 01:09:43.830]  Join those people on the phone and get your copy before we run out because we will run out of these things.
[01:09:44.790 --> 01:09:46.350]  212-209-2950.
[01:09:46.570 --> 01:09:48.690]  Most importantly, though, you are supporting WBAI.
[01:09:48.810 --> 01:09:49.650]  You're supporting Off the Hook.
[01:09:49.790 --> 01:09:55.650]  You're making this kind of education possible in not only in the tri-state area, but throughout the world.
[01:09:55.650 --> 01:09:57.610]  People listen to this show all over the planet.
[01:09:57.910 --> 01:09:59.550]  We get mail from people everywhere.
[01:09:59.810 --> 01:10:01.450]  And people listen in the future.
[01:10:01.690 --> 01:10:07.290]  People will listen to this 50 years from now, and they'll probably still learn something incredible about it.
[01:10:07.450 --> 01:10:17.870]  What we're going to do now is we're going to play an excerpt from the HOPEX conference, which took place this July, and hope to see the phone lines light up like crazy while we're playing this.
[01:10:17.990 --> 01:10:20.790]  212-209-2950.
[01:10:20.790 --> 01:10:27.110]  We're on the air for about another 50 minutes or so, and we do have goals that we need to meet in order to keep this program, keep this station going.
[01:10:27.310 --> 01:10:29.210]  212-209-2950.
[01:10:29.510 --> 01:10:31.830]  $75 for the flash drive of Stephen's Talks.
[01:10:32.570 --> 01:10:35.170]  $125 for all the talks from the HOPEX conference.
[01:10:35.670 --> 01:10:37.610]  212-209-2950.
[01:10:37.630 --> 01:10:40.650]  Let's go back to HOPEX and Steve Rambon.
[01:10:41.110 --> 01:10:43.070]  You are a whistleblower.
[01:10:45.350 --> 01:10:55.250]  I have a good idea of who you are or who you probably are already, because if it's sensitive data, there's a limited amount of people who have access to it.
[01:10:55.390 --> 01:11:04.330]  It's not like the stuff that was given away by Manning, which was accessible by a million people through the military network.
[01:11:04.610 --> 01:11:18.510]  If you are a hot, a big deal, I was going to say something rude, if you are a big deal whistleblower and you've got really, really sensitive stuff, Snowden-level stuff, there's a limited number of people who can get it.
[01:11:18.590 --> 01:11:29.430]  And by the way, since Snowden, it's even harder to be a whistleblower because there's really, really good audit trails, which can't be erased and can't be circumvented on info.
[01:11:29.590 --> 01:11:41.590]  So they know the 20 people that looked at this piece of data that is now on the front page of the New York Times, or more likely Guardian or something like that, or Al Jazeera.
[01:11:41.590 --> 01:11:44.310]  Hello, Al Jazeera guy who I spoke to before.
[01:11:45.830 --> 01:11:49.370]  So you say, you know what, I'm going to put on rubber gloves.
[01:11:49.550 --> 01:11:55.350]  I noticed in the back in the Hope stock room, there were boxes and boxes of rubber gloves.
[01:11:55.510 --> 01:11:56.250]  I'm wondering why.
[01:11:56.970 --> 01:11:59.090]  And that's actually really true.
[01:12:00.130 --> 01:12:02.650]  So you say, you know what, I'm going to put on rubber gloves.
[01:12:02.950 --> 01:12:07.790]  I'm going to go get a box of envelopes that's never been opened so my DNA isn't on it.
[01:12:08.050 --> 01:12:09.330]  I'm not going to lick it.
[01:12:09.470 --> 01:12:10.510]  I'm going to get water.
[01:12:10.630 --> 01:12:13.570]  I'm going to take all these crazy steps and I'm going to mail it.
[01:12:14.590 --> 01:12:26.810]  Well, first of all, when you print something out, every digital printer, every laser printer, micro-embeds the printer's serial number in the page now.
[01:12:27.330 --> 01:12:29.690]  Every single one that I know of.
[01:12:30.150 --> 01:12:32.850]  Certainly Brother, Hewlett Packard, all the big ones.
[01:12:33.070 --> 01:12:35.870]  So first of all, they know what printer it came from.
[01:12:36.150 --> 01:12:38.270]  There's a guy I've been looking for all day.
[01:12:38.270 --> 01:12:40.150]  I'm doing a case with him right now.
[01:12:40.490 --> 01:12:53.750]  In Germany, we have a guy who sent out bogus invoices and we're going to lock him up in Ulm, Germany because the printer that he sent the bogus invoices from has been seized by the German tax authorities.
[01:12:54.330 --> 01:13:01.030]  So we're going to be able to compare it and put his sneaky butt in jail and his two partners who are named Odie and Captain.
[01:13:03.810 --> 01:13:07.330]  So first of all, you've got the micro-embedded printer.
[01:13:07.590 --> 01:13:16.530]  Second of all, how many people know that every single letter, show of hands, how many people know that every single letter that's mailed in the U.S.
[01:13:16.710 --> 01:13:17.630]  is photographed?
[01:13:19.530 --> 01:13:21.650]  Holy moly, more than half the room.
[01:13:22.170 --> 01:13:23.510]  You know, you guys are great.
[01:13:23.710 --> 01:13:25.110]  You guys are really, really great.
[01:13:26.810 --> 01:13:35.930]  Honestly, if it was any other crowd, there would be a hand and it would probably be like the postal inspector who's surveilling me.
[01:13:38.010 --> 01:13:39.690]  Every single letter.
[01:13:40.010 --> 01:13:51.730]  So unless you're going to hitchhike to Milwaukee to mail the letter, they know where it was mailed from and that narrows down the circle of who it could be.
[01:13:52.670 --> 01:13:56.150]  Now, profiling people.
[01:13:57.110 --> 01:13:57.910]  There are people.
[01:13:58.310 --> 01:13:59.430]  Oh, tinfoil hat area.
[01:14:00.070 --> 01:14:02.730]  I say that because this is the scariest stuff.
[01:14:03.170 --> 01:14:04.730]  This is the scariest stuff.
[01:14:05.090 --> 01:14:06.150]  Target marketing.
[01:14:06.410 --> 01:14:22.410]  Every book you buy, every music you listen to, every song you listen to, every place you go, every credit card charge, every OnStar, every EasyPass, every swipe of your subway card, it's buffered.
[01:14:22.590 --> 01:14:24.310]  Now, let me tell you, not just the feds.
[01:14:24.470 --> 01:14:26.150]  Let's talk about New York City for a second.
[01:14:26.150 --> 01:14:36.310]  New York City is adding 7,000 to 12,000 cameras a year, all networked, all with facial recognition, all part of what's called the domain awareness system.
[01:14:36.950 --> 01:14:42.950]  The NYPD has the most remarkable facial recognition system you've ever seen.
[01:14:43.210 --> 01:14:48.250]  They make thousands of arrests every year from cameras matched to photos.
[01:14:48.670 --> 01:14:53.450]  They sell that system to other police departments for $30 million.
[01:14:53.650 --> 01:14:54.850]  It's so good.
[01:14:54.850 --> 01:14:57.810]  You want that system, you got to pay the NYPD $30 million.
[01:14:59.610 --> 01:15:08.270]  You use your EasyPass when you go through the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, when you go over the George Washington Bridge, and it's reporting your location?
[01:15:08.270 --> 01:15:09.190]  Yes, it does.
[01:15:09.390 --> 01:15:18.010]  But also through 284 locations in the five boroughs, where they have EasyPass readers that log when your car goes past.
[01:15:18.270 --> 01:15:24.750]  Choke points, lower Broadway, 125th Street and Lenox Avenue, there's one.
[01:15:26.130 --> 01:15:40.010]  There's 12 halal carts, those Muslim food carts that are really undercover food carts that are recording Wi-Fi, recording EasyPass and recording cell phone activity.
[01:15:40.350 --> 01:15:41.410]  And filming, by the way.
[01:15:41.610 --> 01:15:46.150]  And they move them near demonstrations and near sensitive zones.
[01:15:46.150 --> 01:15:50.350]  So if you're at Occupy Wall Street, don't eat the shawarma.
[01:15:50.550 --> 01:15:51.490]  That's all I'm saying.
[01:15:54.690 --> 01:15:57.150]  ALPR, automatic license plate readers.
[01:15:57.550 --> 01:16:03.430]  There are 400 in the city of New York, 200 are stationary, 200 are mobile.
[01:16:03.430 --> 01:16:05.970]  Every parking lot, every street.
[01:16:06.150 --> 01:16:09.510]  They're the two forward-facing cameras on the back of police cars.
[01:16:09.830 --> 01:16:13.230]  They can film 60,000 license plates an hour.
[01:16:13.670 --> 01:16:17.490]  If I want to know where your car was parked two weeks ago, not a problem.
[01:16:17.550 --> 01:16:18.230]  It's in the system.
[01:16:18.590 --> 01:16:25.950]  And by the way, it's a private company that gets all these photos, even when the police take the photo.
[01:16:28.950 --> 01:16:33.050]  Everything there is to know about you, the marketing companies want to know.
[01:16:33.050 --> 01:16:34.030]  Are you straight?
[01:16:34.170 --> 01:16:34.750]  Are you gay?
[01:16:34.910 --> 01:16:35.970]  Are you Republican?
[01:16:36.110 --> 01:16:36.830]  Are you Democrat?
[01:16:37.070 --> 01:16:37.610]  Are you black?
[01:16:37.730 --> 01:16:38.330]  Are you white?
[01:16:38.690 --> 01:16:39.130]  Christian?
[01:16:39.270 --> 01:16:39.470]  Jewish?
[01:16:39.690 --> 01:16:40.930]  They want to know this.
[01:16:41.470 --> 01:16:45.050]  Now, frankly, kind of creeps me out.
[01:16:45.850 --> 01:16:48.050]  They want to sell you stuff based on this.
[01:16:48.170 --> 01:16:49.610]  But it kind of creeps me out.
[01:16:49.610 --> 01:17:05.230]  And I can tell you, depending on... depending on how intensely you've been... if you are over the age of 21, they've been gathering data on you already for seven years.
[01:17:05.550 --> 01:17:08.030]  They start your first year in high school.
[01:17:08.290 --> 01:17:09.530]  Where you go to school.
[01:17:09.750 --> 01:17:19.710]  Once you go to college, they start offering you things like credit card offers, and book deals, and travel, and Cancun, and things like that.
[01:17:19.810 --> 01:17:22.470]  And they get more and more and more information on you.
[01:17:22.610 --> 01:17:29.590]  By the time you're 21, by the time you're out of college, you're already intensely in their system, down to a granular level.
[01:17:29.750 --> 01:17:34.310]  And these are all the areas that they gather from and amalgamate.
[01:17:35.350 --> 01:17:40.390]  Direct mail, call center, in-store networks, websites, email, displays.
[01:17:40.690 --> 01:17:42.150]  I mean, everything.
[01:17:42.510 --> 01:17:43.070]  Everything.
[01:17:43.330 --> 01:17:46.070]  Everything you do is aggregated.
[01:17:46.210 --> 01:17:47.450]  And it's remarkable.
[01:17:47.810 --> 01:17:49.490]  There's a story that I...
[01:17:50.110 --> 01:17:54.310]  The type of data about you that can be extrapolated out is amazing.
[01:17:54.470 --> 01:17:55.470]  There's a famous story.
[01:17:56.790 --> 01:17:58.990]  Germans are really, really good with databases.
[01:17:59.250 --> 01:18:00.210]  Really, really good.
[01:18:00.850 --> 01:18:03.170]  So, my buddy from Germany right here.
[01:18:05.090 --> 01:18:08.990]  And there was a famous story when Volkswagen reintroduced the bug.
[01:18:09.110 --> 01:18:10.270]  I tell it every time I talk.
[01:18:11.250 --> 01:18:15.930]  They... the bug had been out of, you know, the market for 15 years.
[01:18:16.110 --> 01:18:17.790]  And they didn't know who would buy it.
[01:18:17.890 --> 01:18:21.110]  And they couldn't find all the previous owners that loved it.
[01:18:21.950 --> 01:18:27.950]  And they did intensive, intensive marketing surveys of all the people who bought it.
[01:18:28.050 --> 01:18:29.630]  And they found out two things.
[01:18:29.630 --> 01:18:32.430]  These people disproportionately owned cats.
[01:18:32.970 --> 01:18:34.750]  And they ate chunky peanut butter.
[01:18:36.050 --> 01:18:43.110]  So they got together, everybody they could, who had a cat and ate chunky peanut butter, and marketed like hell to them.
[01:18:43.830 --> 01:18:47.850]  And four times the normal rate these people went and bought the Volkswagens.
[01:18:48.130 --> 01:18:49.550]  You can extrapolate out.
[01:18:49.890 --> 01:18:52.190]  The political outfits do this all the time.
[01:18:52.190 --> 01:18:53.690]  Call Rove for the Republicans.
[01:18:54.090 --> 01:18:55.790]  Voters vote for the Democrats.
[01:18:56.450 --> 01:19:04.530]  If you drink clear liquor, white wine, vodka, stuff like that, you are more likely to vote Democrat.
[01:19:05.130 --> 01:19:09.170]  Bourbon, Fuddruckers, guns, you're a Republican.
[01:19:09.170 --> 01:19:12.130]  I mean, it's astounding.
[01:19:12.270 --> 01:19:16.690]  It's astounding how accurate these marketing extrapolations are.
[01:19:16.850 --> 01:19:19.850]  And really, I can find out everything that I want to know.
[01:19:20.050 --> 01:19:23.990]  And they have Facebook, LinkedIn, MySpace, Twitter.
[01:19:24.810 --> 01:19:26.790]  They grab all of that crap.
[01:19:27.050 --> 01:19:29.130]  They merge it with your purchasing activity.
[01:19:29.250 --> 01:19:30.770]  They merge it with your offline activity.
[01:19:30.770 --> 01:19:40.950]  How you can be angry about the NSA grabbing your phone metadata, which is really kind of bullshit, and not be angry about this is beyond me.
[01:19:41.190 --> 01:19:42.910]  Not be furious about this.
[01:19:43.370 --> 01:19:43.970]  Everything.
[01:19:44.310 --> 01:19:46.330]  How much discretionary income you have.
[01:19:46.390 --> 01:19:47.450]  How much money you make.
[01:19:47.610 --> 01:19:49.310]  How much money your household makes.
[01:19:49.470 --> 01:19:50.990]  What you do for work.
[01:19:51.250 --> 01:19:52.990]  What your house is worth.
[01:19:53.250 --> 01:19:54.310]  Your ethnic code.
[01:19:54.410 --> 01:19:55.470]  Your religious code.
[01:19:56.090 --> 01:19:56.690]  Everything.
[01:19:56.970 --> 01:19:58.730]  Everything, everything, everything.
[01:19:59.670 --> 01:20:00.810]  Do you have allergies?
[01:20:01.030 --> 01:20:01.750]  Do you have arthritis?
[01:20:02.030 --> 01:20:02.470]  Cholesterol?
[01:20:02.770 --> 01:20:03.210]  Diabetes?
[01:20:03.450 --> 01:20:04.430]  Are you disabled?
[01:20:04.590 --> 01:20:06.050]  Do you do homeopathic medicine?
[01:20:06.330 --> 01:20:07.750]  Do you like organic food?
[01:20:08.110 --> 01:20:10.470]  Are you a senior with senior needs?
[01:20:10.810 --> 01:20:12.510]  And so on and so on and so on.
[01:20:12.690 --> 01:20:14.010]  All of this gathered.
[01:20:14.370 --> 01:20:15.390]  Are you a new parent?
[01:20:15.490 --> 01:20:16.850]  Are you an expectant parent?
[01:20:17.230 --> 01:20:18.150]  You know how they know that?
[01:20:18.330 --> 01:20:20.230]  Because they buy this crap up from the doctor.
[01:20:20.630 --> 01:20:23.370]  How do you think you get a free coupon for Huggies?
[01:20:24.550 --> 01:20:26.490]  One nanosecond after you give birth.
[01:20:26.490 --> 01:20:27.370]  That's out.
[01:20:28.810 --> 01:20:30.490]  And they segmented.
[01:20:30.730 --> 01:20:31.890]  Platinum oldies.
[01:20:32.110 --> 01:20:33.850]  Well-heeled retirees.
[01:20:34.210 --> 01:20:35.190]  Hard chargers.
[01:20:35.590 --> 01:20:37.970]  Well-educated and professionally successful.
[01:20:38.250 --> 01:20:39.410]  Kids with clout.
[01:20:39.610 --> 01:20:40.470]  Tots and toys.
[01:20:40.770 --> 01:20:44.610]  They segment you down to the tiniest, tiniest level.
[01:20:44.830 --> 01:20:46.810]  Like sand on the beach.
[01:20:47.170 --> 01:20:50.130]  And they just keep going after you.
[01:20:50.310 --> 01:20:51.130]  Are you straight?
[01:20:51.130 --> 01:20:51.670]  Are you gay?
[01:20:51.770 --> 01:20:52.230]  Are you black?
[01:20:52.250 --> 01:20:52.910]  Are you white?
[01:20:53.110 --> 01:20:54.210]  Are you a Christian?
[01:20:54.210 --> 01:20:55.190]  Are you a lefty?
[01:20:55.270 --> 01:20:56.010]  What are you?
[01:20:56.370 --> 01:20:57.750]  And they keep marketing.
[01:20:59.070 --> 01:21:05.850]  And they predict not only what you like, but what you're gonna like as you age.
[01:21:06.050 --> 01:21:14.930]  They know a guy who likes X at 18 probably likes Y at 25 and Z at 35.
[01:21:14.930 --> 01:21:16.750]  They're waiting for you.
[01:21:16.950 --> 01:21:18.970]  They know what car you're gonna drive.
[01:21:19.150 --> 01:21:30.590]  If you're driving a beater with a primer paint job today, they know in four years when you start making some serious dough, they need to market their asses off for a new car to you.
[01:21:30.590 --> 01:21:33.150]  And they really, really know stuff.
[01:21:34.290 --> 01:21:35.330]  And that...
[01:21:35.330 --> 01:21:37.970]  Butter white wine, fig newtons, fruit filled cookies, red lobster.
[01:21:39.450 --> 01:21:39.970]  Wow.
[01:21:41.030 --> 01:21:42.470]  I gotta say, you're thorough.
[01:21:42.470 --> 01:21:44.910]  That from Steve Rambam's Hope X talk.
[01:21:45.110 --> 01:21:46.330]  That's not from memory.
[01:21:46.470 --> 01:21:47.870]  We had stuff up on the screen.
[01:21:48.150 --> 01:21:48.450]  Wow.
[01:21:48.650 --> 01:21:48.810]  Yeah.
[01:21:48.950 --> 01:21:52.210]  But still, it's pretty sobering.
[01:21:52.310 --> 01:22:01.310]  And that's part of the three-hour talk that we had at Hope X, which you will get if you pledge $75 to 212-209-2950.
[01:22:01.310 --> 01:22:07.550]  You'll get that plus every other talk that we have of Steve Rambam from every Hope conference that we've done since 1994.
[01:22:08.510 --> 01:22:10.170]  212-209-2950.
[01:22:10.170 --> 01:22:12.230]  The pledge of $75 gets you that flash drive.
[01:22:12.370 --> 01:22:21.230]  The pledge of $125 gets you the mega flash drive collection of every talk given at Hope X, which took place this past July.
[01:22:21.910 --> 01:22:24.130]  So, either way, they're going fast.
[01:22:24.130 --> 01:22:26.550]  I just checked in and we are getting calls.
[01:22:26.650 --> 01:22:27.330]  I want to thank those people.
[01:22:27.430 --> 01:22:29.270]  I want to thank everybody also who called two weeks ago.
[01:22:29.270 --> 01:22:32.970]  We made over $3,000 in the two-hour period, which was really, really awesome.
[01:22:34.010 --> 01:22:37.730]  Please continue those calls because it's of vital importance at this place.
[01:22:38.570 --> 01:22:45.290]  Stay alive that we have this resource here, that we can have voices like Steve's to educate people with.
[01:22:45.590 --> 01:22:48.670]  And Steve, thank you very much for taking time out tonight to be a part of this.
[01:22:48.690 --> 01:22:48.930]  My pleasure.
[01:22:59.510 --> 01:23:02.290]  I think that the cost of the Hope X speakers is pretty darn cheap.
[01:23:03.350 --> 01:23:09.870]  If you learn one significant piece of information from that collection, it's well worth the money you've paid for it.
[01:23:10.010 --> 01:23:10.490]  Absolutely.
[01:23:10.490 --> 01:23:12.190]  And consider the radio station the same way.
[01:23:12.290 --> 01:23:15.810]  If you learn something from something you've heard on this show or on any other show.
[01:23:15.930 --> 01:23:19.430]  And, you know, I would think you'd have to struggle not to learn something.
[01:23:19.770 --> 01:23:21.450]  Isn't that worth supporting as well?
[01:23:21.490 --> 01:23:28.230]  Because we don't have commercials and you wind up paying for all the other radio stations through the price of whatever it is you buy.
[01:23:28.330 --> 01:23:29.770]  That's all part of the advertising budget.
[01:23:30.410 --> 01:23:31.570]  You don't get a choice there.
[01:23:31.570 --> 01:23:32.730]  You do have a choice here.
[01:23:32.730 --> 01:23:34.890]  And you have a choice as to how much you want to contribute.
[01:23:35.210 --> 01:23:36.670]  Again, we have the WBAI buddy.
[01:23:36.850 --> 01:23:38.010]  You can ask to sign up for that.
[01:23:38.130 --> 01:23:42.910]  Have a particular amount taken every month from either your credit card or your bank account.
[01:23:43.370 --> 01:23:44.330]  That's all up to you.
[01:23:44.430 --> 01:23:46.370]  212-209-2950.
[01:23:46.410 --> 01:23:50.570]  We are in the final 35 minutes of this special two-hour program.
[01:23:50.670 --> 01:23:53.370]  And we want to thank everybody who has called in so far.
[01:23:53.470 --> 01:23:54.710]  Please join those people.
[01:23:55.450 --> 01:23:57.150]  212-209-2950.
[01:23:57.430 --> 01:23:59.830]  Joining us now from Seattle is Kyle.
[01:23:59.950 --> 01:24:00.490]  How are you doing, Kyle?
[01:24:01.310 --> 01:24:01.990]  Hey, Ameno.
[01:24:03.310 --> 01:24:05.350]  And, Bernie, I believe you're still on from Philadelphia.
[01:24:05.350 --> 01:24:05.810]  Is that correct?
[01:24:05.870 --> 01:24:06.630]  I am here.
[01:24:06.730 --> 01:24:16.310]  I just wanted to mention, though, that if our listeners find Steve Rombaum's Hope Talks interesting on the radio, seeing them on video is twice as good.
[01:24:16.430 --> 01:24:16.950]  Because there's...
[01:24:16.950 --> 01:24:18.570]  I've got to say, Steve is one of the...
[01:24:18.570 --> 01:24:24.110]  Of all the Hope speakers, he's one of the more remarkable slide presenters.
[01:24:24.110 --> 01:24:25.330]  He's got very well...
[01:24:26.050 --> 01:24:27.110]  Very good audio...
[01:24:27.890 --> 01:24:28.190]  I'm sorry.
[01:24:28.290 --> 01:24:32.070]  Very good visual presentations, visual aids along with these talks.
[01:24:32.590 --> 01:24:40.110]  So that's why it's all the more important, if you're interested in this stuff, to get our thank you gift of the...
[01:24:40.110 --> 01:24:46.670]  Of all of Steve Rombaum's Hope videos over the past 20 years, by calling 212-209-2950.
[01:24:46.910 --> 01:24:52.990]  $75 for dozens of hours of this, with the audio and video, is a remarkable value.
[01:24:52.990 --> 01:24:54.630]  And you're supporting the radio station.
[01:24:54.910 --> 01:25:00.270]  Or all the Hope X videos from this year for $125 on a flash drive.
[01:25:01.230 --> 01:25:04.110]  Or just calling 212-209-2950.
[01:25:04.130 --> 01:25:10.490]  Most important, you're supporting WBAI, which is the only station that's going to let us talk about this stuff on the air.
[01:25:10.650 --> 01:25:10.990]  Absolutely.
[01:25:11.170 --> 01:25:16.890]  And, you know, you raise a good point as far as Steve's ability to demonstrate this in front of an audience.
[01:25:16.890 --> 01:25:18.630]  We're just playing the audio.
[01:25:18.950 --> 01:25:21.990]  And there's a small crowd that's gathered outside the studio listening to that right now.
[01:25:22.150 --> 01:25:22.690]  Just listening.
[01:25:22.990 --> 01:25:25.490]  But imagine the video presentation.
[01:25:25.490 --> 01:25:29.950]  You'll see all kinds of, I guess, diagrams, examples, things like that.
[01:25:30.090 --> 01:25:31.910]  You illustrate your talks pretty well.
[01:25:31.910 --> 01:25:34.270]  Well, I spoke at the first Hope accidentally.
[01:25:34.270 --> 01:25:35.750]  I got dragged onto a panel.
[01:25:36.310 --> 01:25:42.570]  And I was there just as an attendee and somebody recognized me and pulled me up onto a panel.
[01:25:42.570 --> 01:25:49.950]  And nearly everything that I said, 15 people jumped on me.
[01:25:49.990 --> 01:25:51.210]  Where's the documentation of this?
[01:25:51.270 --> 01:25:51.870]  Do you have a source?
[01:25:52.170 --> 01:25:56.390]  So when I was invited to actually speak at Hope No.
[01:25:56.490 --> 01:26:00.850]  2, I vowed to have a presentation.
[01:26:01.070 --> 01:26:04.550]  And this was pre-PowerPoint, pre-Keynote.
[01:26:04.770 --> 01:26:07.870]  I actually put up HTML pages on the screen.
[01:26:09.070 --> 01:26:09.390]  Wow.
[01:26:09.690 --> 01:26:12.630]  So, yeah, I mean, you know, back in the Stone Age.
[01:26:12.750 --> 01:26:14.110]  Let me throw something else into the mix here.
[01:26:14.310 --> 01:26:17.970]  You're talking about Beyond Hope, the second Hope conference, the one that took place at the Puck building.
[01:26:18.350 --> 01:26:25.190]  You gave a presentation there, but you were also, I don't know if you remember this, you were also on a live presentation of Off the Hook that took place there.
[01:26:25.410 --> 01:26:27.210]  We're going to include that as well, that talk.
[01:26:27.310 --> 01:26:29.110]  You get to see all of us in addition to...
[01:26:29.110 --> 01:26:30.090]  I don't remember any of this.
[01:26:30.670 --> 01:26:32.470]  It was a wild weekend, that's for sure.
[01:26:32.970 --> 01:26:37.670]  Hey, Kyle, you've been listening to this in Seattle, have you not?
[01:26:39.690 --> 01:26:41.810]  Listening to the talks?
[01:26:41.990 --> 01:26:42.470]  Yeah, absolutely.
[01:26:42.470 --> 01:26:44.370]  I've been following along the whole hour.
[01:26:44.710 --> 01:26:44.990]  Uh-huh.
[01:26:45.230 --> 01:26:48.650]  Any comments or questions or perspectives?
[01:26:51.810 --> 01:26:54.570]  Well, there's a lot of ways of thinking about it.
[01:26:54.590 --> 01:26:55.030]  I don't know.
[01:26:55.450 --> 01:26:58.950]  A lot of things occurred to me listening back.
[01:26:58.950 --> 01:27:07.350]  I guess that's one of the first times I've been able to hear the latest of Steve's talk at HopeX.
[01:27:07.630 --> 01:27:15.030]  So, yeah, it struck me a lot, the variety of things he was just listing off there.
[01:27:15.030 --> 01:27:33.110]  And basically, I think what I've learned from hearing this and following a lot of the developments in this over the years, and especially in the last year, is it's important to imagine the picture that you're leaving, like the footprints, I guess.
[01:27:33.110 --> 01:27:47.730]  And, well, just be deliberate in what you do and consider the impact and the kind of person it makes you out to be.
[01:27:47.730 --> 01:27:56.810]  I think it's actually a fun mental exercise in a lot of cases because a lot of people are doing really good things in the world and are busy people as such.
[01:27:57.030 --> 01:28:13.650]  But it's also funny to me that there, like with the Comey situation, that whole speech where he was kind of taken aback with the large corporations like Google and stuff like that.
[01:28:13.730 --> 01:28:14.930]  Talk about the FBI director.
[01:28:15.530 --> 01:28:16.250]  Go ahead.
[01:28:16.250 --> 01:28:17.510]  You're talking about the FBI director.
[01:28:17.830 --> 01:28:18.510]  Yes, yeah.
[01:28:18.990 --> 01:28:30.470]  And, well, we are also being sold newer technologies that only enhance the amount of data that is to be kept for a really, really long time.
[01:28:30.530 --> 01:28:33.810]  And the other thing that really struck me is this whole, this word cloud.
[01:28:34.070 --> 01:28:38.330]  I mean, think of that as like used in like a diagram.
[01:28:38.690 --> 01:28:42.710]  I mean, it's a way of thinking about storage.
[01:28:42.710 --> 01:28:47.450]  It's not like, it's not like heaven or something.
[01:28:48.750 --> 01:28:59.830]  And I think that's really critical that you're, it's almost the fashionability of like nerd or like science speak and culture.
[01:29:00.570 --> 01:29:03.470]  Like that, yeah, it's from a diagram.
[01:29:03.710 --> 01:29:05.130]  Yeah, well, we're talking about the cloud.
[01:29:05.130 --> 01:29:11.410]  And it's also just a familiar reference if you do actually go over those kinds of diagrams from a network design perspective.
[01:29:11.410 --> 01:29:23.330]  But people were then kind of sold it, like branded it, and various, well, cloud backup services and on and on and on and on and on.
[01:29:23.330 --> 01:29:31.470]  So I think really thinking about the language that we encounter as consumers.
[01:29:31.950 --> 01:29:39.890]  And just be cautious, like the validity we give these companies who, I guess, are here to protect us from the government.
[01:29:39.890 --> 01:29:51.530]  But also enlightening about the talks that Steve gives is the real, I don't know, cesspool, whirlpool.
[01:29:52.550 --> 01:29:53.410]  Whichever it is.
[01:29:53.650 --> 01:29:54.490]  Whirlpool.
[01:29:56.710 --> 01:30:03.970]  Pond, scum, like what is it, like a swamp of information that is privately held.
[01:30:03.970 --> 01:30:16.610]  Lately, we have been seeing kind of a barrage in the media of companies like Google and Twitter and various other companies that are standing up to the government's overreaching arms.
[01:30:16.610 --> 01:30:18.510]  And it makes you want to trust them.
[01:30:18.610 --> 01:30:20.010]  It makes you want to trust them more.
[01:30:20.210 --> 01:30:22.010]  And you think we're being played here, Steve?
[01:30:22.350 --> 01:30:27.570]  Listen, you know, first let me say he's absolutely right.
[01:30:27.890 --> 01:30:32.250]  The word cloud is the most brilliant marketing campaign ever.
[01:30:32.250 --> 01:30:34.070]  I mean, that's all it is.
[01:30:34.190 --> 01:30:40.130]  But, you know, when I listen to the Comey speech, and because I know what's out there.
[01:30:40.150 --> 01:30:44.850]  I'm a consumer of this biographic information.
[01:30:45.450 --> 01:30:50.970]  I knew how much bull was in this.
[01:30:51.130 --> 01:30:55.630]  I had to wonder if this wasn't almost the disinformation campaign.
[01:30:55.630 --> 01:31:02.910]  Because, frankly, Apple encrypting the iPhone is nearly meaningless.
[01:31:04.190 --> 01:31:11.330]  It does not remove any significant type of information or source of information whatsoever.
[01:31:11.590 --> 01:31:13.550]  Okay, I'm a street cop.
[01:31:13.550 --> 01:31:14.490]  I arrest you.
[01:31:14.610 --> 01:31:15.770]  I grab your cell phone.
[01:31:15.910 --> 01:31:17.850]  I can't dump your cell phone.
[01:31:18.070 --> 01:31:19.850]  Well, boo-hoo.
[01:31:20.410 --> 01:31:22.110]  I want to know where you've been.
[01:31:22.110 --> 01:31:23.350]  I go to the telcos.
[01:31:23.350 --> 01:31:25.310]  They give it to me with one phone call.
[01:31:25.450 --> 01:31:27.150]  I want to know what you're buying.
[01:31:27.490 --> 01:31:31.110]  I get your credit card vendors or your bank.
[01:31:31.310 --> 01:31:43.490]  I mean, there is no bit of information that is on that iPhone that encrypting it on the iPhone and only on the iPhone is going to keep me from getting that information.
[01:31:43.490 --> 01:31:46.110]  At most, it's going to take me one more step.
[01:31:46.330 --> 01:31:49.310]  It is absolute propaganda bull.
[01:31:50.370 --> 01:31:56.830]  So, is there anything that is effective that they can do, that we can do?
[01:31:57.430 --> 01:31:57.870]  Yeah.
[01:31:58.070 --> 01:31:59.210]  Don't share the information.
[01:32:00.030 --> 01:32:02.090]  You don't want a nude selfie to get out?
[01:32:02.230 --> 01:32:03.390]  Don't take a nude selfie.
[01:32:03.550 --> 01:32:04.590]  Well, don't put it on your phone.
[01:32:04.990 --> 01:32:08.570]  Well, I mean, don't put it anywhere, frankly.
[01:32:08.570 --> 01:32:10.370]  I mean, you put it...
[01:32:10.370 --> 01:32:16.830]  I am amazed by the number of people who email nude photographs from Gmail.
[01:32:17.310 --> 01:32:17.770]  Mm-hmm.
[01:32:18.030 --> 01:32:19.890]  And how do I know that?
[01:32:20.070 --> 01:32:26.410]  Because I do so many cases where we get subpoenas for people's Gmail accounts.
[01:32:26.410 --> 01:32:34.050]  And when we grab the Gmail or we're given a dump of the Gmail, there's nude photos in there.
[01:32:35.010 --> 01:32:35.530]  Wow.
[01:32:36.170 --> 01:32:37.310]  Tell us about that process.
[01:32:37.310 --> 01:32:42.910]  When you subpoena a Gmail account, they just basically hand over what's included.
[01:32:43.110 --> 01:32:43.290]  No.
[01:32:43.290 --> 01:32:43.970]  Sometimes they fight.
[01:32:44.090 --> 01:32:44.950]  Sometimes they don't.
[01:32:45.170 --> 01:32:55.370]  The biggest jerks are Facebook, not because they really care about their users' privacy, but because it's a pain in the butt for them to comply with all these subpoenas.
[01:32:55.370 --> 01:33:00.350]  And they try to discourage private attorneys from hitting them with subpoenas.
[01:33:00.510 --> 01:33:01.650]  But they turn it over also.
[01:33:01.810 --> 01:33:03.810]  Well, it's hard to get through their interface, probably even for them.
[01:33:04.390 --> 01:33:05.850]  That's probably right.
[01:33:06.090 --> 01:33:20.490]  I will tell you that if you knew the real practices of Google and the real practices of Facebook as revealed when you subpoena them, you would be even more horrified than you already should be.
[01:33:20.490 --> 01:33:25.710]  For example, let's say you're typing a draft on Google, on Gmail.
[01:33:26.550 --> 01:33:28.710]  Not that you save the draft.
[01:33:28.850 --> 01:33:29.990]  You don't even save it.
[01:33:30.110 --> 01:33:35.150]  You're typing and you decide to discard it even before you save it as a draft.
[01:33:35.430 --> 01:33:36.670]  Google saves it.
[01:33:37.070 --> 01:33:37.390]  Amazing.
[01:33:37.970 --> 01:33:44.730]  Everything that you do on Google, every letter that you type, and I don't mean a letter to someone.
[01:33:44.730 --> 01:33:47.130]  I mean the letter A, the letter B.
[01:33:47.690 --> 01:33:52.350]  Every letter that you type is saved and buffered by Google.
[01:33:52.830 --> 01:33:54.490]  Everything that you do.
[01:33:55.070 --> 01:33:55.670]  Everything.
[01:33:56.110 --> 01:33:57.490]  And that includes, of course...
[01:33:57.490 --> 01:33:59.030]  Including deleted mail.
[01:33:59.150 --> 01:34:03.650]  Any search that you make while logged into your Gmail account, you will be saved as well.
[01:34:03.650 --> 01:34:19.390]  I mean, if you authenticate yourself, if you use, for example, Chrome, if you log into Chrome and you keep yourself logged into Chrome and you continue to use Chrome for your Gmail, for your searches, for your news groups, for your reader, for all of that,
[01:34:20.370 --> 01:34:21.810]  there is nothing...
[01:34:21.810 --> 01:34:24.290]  I mean Google has a window into your soul at that point.
[01:34:24.290 --> 01:34:34.930]  And, you know, there are a number of applications, things that you need to use that Google controls, and they say, this doesn't work in Firefox, you can only use this in Chrome.
[01:34:34.930 --> 01:34:37.250]  So you have to get Chrome if you want to use that.
[01:34:37.370 --> 01:34:38.290]  You know what amazes me?
[01:34:38.290 --> 01:34:57.210]  If you're an old digital dinosaur like me, you remember the big uproar 20 years ago when Microsoft wouldn't de-link from Windows Internet Explorer, when they didn't give users the right to delete Internet Explorer.
[01:34:57.210 --> 01:35:04.790]  This was a big, you know, digital cause, big digital revolution.
[01:35:05.090 --> 01:35:11.190]  Today, if you buy an Android phone, it's a hundred times worse.
[01:35:11.190 --> 01:35:15.410]  You have all of these pre-installed apps that you can't delete.
[01:35:16.030 --> 01:35:26.130]  And if you want to sync your address book with your Android phone, you have to send it to the mothership.
[01:35:26.310 --> 01:35:28.310]  You have to go through Google.
[01:35:28.590 --> 01:35:32.350]  If you want to sync your calendars, you have to go through Google.
[01:35:32.570 --> 01:35:37.530]  You want to sync your bookmarks, you have to send them to Google and Google sends them to your phone.
[01:35:39.230 --> 01:35:39.590]  Wow.
[01:35:40.050 --> 01:35:41.830]  You know, we could do this for six hours.
[01:35:42.010 --> 01:35:45.250]  We could easily just keep talking about all these... Sorry.
[01:35:46.390 --> 01:35:47.930]  That's why my talks at Oprah are three hours.
[01:35:47.930 --> 01:35:48.110]  Exactly.
[01:35:48.230 --> 01:35:48.990]  People do ask that.
[01:35:49.090 --> 01:35:51.450]  Why does Steve have such a big chunk of time?
[01:35:51.450 --> 01:35:53.150]  It's because there is so much to talk about.
[01:35:53.450 --> 01:35:56.490]  And that's why we've gathered them all together.
[01:35:56.490 --> 01:35:58.030]  And it's really pretty interesting.
[01:35:58.110 --> 01:36:02.850]  We had a bunch that we wanted to play, but we can't even get to all of them because we're having such a good discussion here in the studio.
[01:36:03.130 --> 01:36:08.450]  But you will get 100% of all the talks that we have by pledging $75.
[01:36:08.750 --> 01:36:12.270]  That's if you're one of the first 25 people to do that, because that's all we have.
[01:36:12.510 --> 01:36:14.510]  212-209-2950.
[01:36:14.510 --> 01:36:17.490]  You'll get all Steve Rombaum's talks on a flash drive.
[01:36:17.850 --> 01:36:21.770]  $125, you'll get all the talks at HopeX.
[01:36:21.990 --> 01:36:24.430]  Also on a really big flash drive.
[01:36:24.790 --> 01:36:26.490]  212-209-2950.
[01:36:26.730 --> 01:36:28.070]  We only have about 20 minutes left.
[01:36:28.190 --> 01:36:30.050]  So please make those calls now.
[01:36:30.210 --> 01:36:35.130]  It's vitally important that we remain on the air, that WBAI remains strong.
[01:36:35.830 --> 01:36:39.290]  Kyle, you know, you and I actually did something unique.
[01:36:39.410 --> 01:36:45.490]  We went to visit... well, actually, we had to drop off all those premiums, the Snowden premiums from last year.
[01:36:45.990 --> 01:36:49.030]  Long story, but we've made significant progress.
[01:36:49.290 --> 01:36:50.790]  They have been dropped off.
[01:36:50.910 --> 01:36:52.310]  They are being mailed out as we speak.
[01:36:52.510 --> 01:36:54.070]  You might even have them now.
[01:36:54.170 --> 01:36:56.770]  But we got to see the new facility in Brooklyn.
[01:36:57.370 --> 01:36:59.770]  And I got to say, I was impressed.
[01:36:59.770 --> 01:37:01.410]  I was blown away by it.
[01:37:01.410 --> 01:37:09.570]  I was kind of renewed with Moore's spirit about preserving WBAI, building the radio station, becoming more of a community asset.
[01:37:09.810 --> 01:37:13.230]  And right there in the middle of Brooklyn, I think we can really pull this off.
[01:37:14.050 --> 01:37:14.570]  Yeah.
[01:37:15.150 --> 01:37:25.470]  There's a lot of good reasons to support maybe getting together some work parties or some kind of build-out in that space.
[01:37:25.470 --> 01:37:29.190]  And I think that the staff there is in agreement and they want to move forward.
[01:37:29.570 --> 01:37:39.770]  And I think that's a big part of why being a BAI buddy or getting one of these packages tonight is really fantastic.
[01:37:41.830 --> 01:37:50.530]  Leap forward and really a good contribution because it's going to really help cover a lot of the immediate costs with big logistical items.
[01:37:50.730 --> 01:37:53.570]  Obviously, we talk about the transmitter a lot and things like that.
[01:37:53.570 --> 01:37:58.570]  But the space, well, it's kind of a narrow building.
[01:37:58.570 --> 01:38:00.130]  It's like a rectangular building.
[01:38:00.250 --> 01:38:02.570]  And I think it's, well, three stories.
[01:38:02.870 --> 01:38:07.910]  And the studios, there's large rooms basically ready to go.
[01:38:08.090 --> 01:38:17.690]  It's basically been renovated enough to where it's got like modern office spaces and looks quite habitable.
[01:38:17.970 --> 01:38:39.510]  And I think the people there would happily, you know, rearrange some things and welcome back the studio staff so we could get that kind of unity that we were all really familiar with before the move and the storm and stuff.
[01:38:39.510 --> 01:38:41.250]  Yeah, I was blown away by it.
[01:38:41.350 --> 01:38:45.990]  I was expecting to see, you know, a rickety structure that could barely hold people, let alone a studio.
[01:38:45.990 --> 01:38:58.490]  But what I saw was a well-kept building that has lots and lots of room in it for expansion and things like that in the middle of one of the busiest and most amazing parts of Brooklyn.
[01:38:59.090 --> 01:39:01.890]  And just being in Brooklyn, I think, is pretty damn cool too.
[01:39:02.210 --> 01:39:07.710]  This is something I think we can really pull off, especially after all the hard times.
[01:39:09.250 --> 01:39:10.510]  Okay, I don't know why that happened.
[01:39:11.310 --> 01:39:19.430]  After all the hard times that WBAI has been through over the past few years, I was talking to a number of people about this.
[01:39:19.610 --> 01:39:23.730]  And, you know, there's a lot of naysaying, there's a lot of negativity, there's a lot of pessimism.
[01:39:24.210 --> 01:39:28.350]  But the station has made incredible strides over the past few years.
[01:39:28.630 --> 01:39:42.010]  And we need to recognize that we are actually in a position where we can pull this off, where we can make the move, have an amazing facility right there in the middle of a community, and kind of start fresh.
[01:39:42.270 --> 01:39:44.010]  You know, you need to start fresh every now and then.
[01:39:44.050 --> 01:39:47.170]  And I just got a very positive feeling from that place.
[01:39:47.190 --> 01:39:57.430]  And I include the people that were there as well, because they seem to have a very healthy attitude about the station, diversity, healthy dialogue.
[01:39:57.730 --> 01:40:01.930]  And that's what Pacifica, that's what WBAI is initially all about.
[01:40:02.110 --> 01:40:05.790]  And I really think that this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.
[01:40:05.790 --> 01:40:10.650]  That facility, this radio station, the license, the transmitter, all of that.
[01:40:10.650 --> 01:40:13.770]  It's all the right things in the right place at the right time.
[01:40:14.050 --> 01:40:20.590]  Add to that the right people, add to that the listeners, and we really do have magic here at 99.5 FM.
[01:40:20.590 --> 01:40:21.850]  Please become a part of that.
[01:40:21.910 --> 01:40:24.710]  212-209-2950.
[01:40:24.710 --> 01:40:29.730]  We have the $75 pledge for all of Steve Rambam's talks on flash drives.
[01:40:29.910 --> 01:40:37.790]  We have the $125 pledge for the entire Hope X conference, if there are any of those still left, all 100 talks.
[01:40:37.910 --> 01:40:40.750]  212-209-2950.
[01:40:40.750 --> 01:40:43.950]  Any other reflections, Kyle, on our visit over there?
[01:40:46.150 --> 01:40:55.690]  Well, I saw some of the office spaces and some of the infrastructure, and I know that they're ready to go, basically.
[01:40:55.690 --> 01:41:01.270]  They're really raring to get organized, just on like an operations side.
[01:41:01.510 --> 01:41:08.330]  And I think with some luck, I mean, we've got a good interim program lead.
[01:41:08.770 --> 01:41:20.070]  And I think by having a bit more of a community, like a fledgling crew, and a lot of that volunteer spirit, we're doing all right.
[01:41:20.270 --> 01:41:25.050]  And like you said, ready to maybe start designing something, which really is art.
[01:41:25.150 --> 01:41:29.790]  That's kind of a beautiful thing in and of itself, because so much is possible creating a space.
[01:41:30.190 --> 01:41:32.030]  And as I said, I hadn't seen it.
[01:41:32.150 --> 01:41:36.710]  You know that place, actually, it's got kind of a rooftop garden, too, which is really beautiful.
[01:41:36.950 --> 01:41:37.830]  It does.
[01:41:38.030 --> 01:41:42.890]  Imagine going up to the roof after visiting the station or something.
[01:41:43.130 --> 01:41:44.350]  Right there in the middle of Brooklyn.
[01:41:44.510 --> 01:41:45.610]  Or having a get-together.
[01:41:45.970 --> 01:41:46.130]  Right.
[01:41:46.230 --> 01:41:50.730]  And, you know, they also have, on the first floor, a gathering space.
[01:41:50.770 --> 01:41:53.850]  In fact, when we got there, there was a feminist film festival being held.
[01:41:53.950 --> 01:41:57.070]  And it was really awesome just seeing all this activity going on.
[01:41:57.470 --> 01:42:01.350]  Something that WBAI has been known for in the past, not so much in the present.
[01:42:01.610 --> 01:42:04.350]  But that was pretty inspiring to see.
[01:42:04.490 --> 01:42:16.050]  And I just hope that we're able to really build that place and use it and make it prosper and have WBAI and the community around it prosper as well.
[01:42:16.870 --> 01:42:21.150]  Yeah, the gallery space was really, really inspiring, too, right on the street level there.
[01:42:21.410 --> 01:42:34.550]  And it was sort of funny, because we were running things in and out, taking care of some housekeeping, and obviously dropping off the other stuff and checking out some of the things the staff were working on.
[01:42:34.810 --> 01:42:37.450]  And there was a film being shot the whole time outside.
[01:42:37.450 --> 01:42:41.810]  So it was sort of an island to get into.
[01:42:41.950 --> 01:42:49.850]  We had to hoof it a little bit just to get around the corner and up to the offices, because this shoot was just wrapping up.
[01:42:49.910 --> 01:42:52.390]  It was sort of a frenzy there, getting in.
[01:42:52.870 --> 01:42:56.230]  Yeah, it's just a typical challenge of having to get to the place.
[01:42:56.390 --> 01:43:00.910]  Yeah, they're filming a major motion picture downstairs, but you know, you got to sidestep around all that.
[01:43:01.030 --> 01:43:02.550]  But yeah, it's part of the magic.
[01:43:02.730 --> 01:43:03.250]  It's part of the magic.
[01:43:03.470 --> 01:43:06.090]  And, you know, a year ago, I wouldn't have said that.
[01:43:06.250 --> 01:43:07.750]  I wouldn't have been as enthused.
[01:43:07.930 --> 01:43:15.810]  Seeing the place, seeing what people are doing, and just looking at the spirit in their eyes, I realized, yeah, this is something that we can do.
[01:43:16.270 --> 01:43:17.810]  This is something we have to do.
[01:43:18.190 --> 01:43:23.570]  And I just hope our listeners come through and support us so that we can make this drive a success.
[01:43:23.890 --> 01:43:36.890]  This drive is actually the pivotal one, because we will have rounded the corner then, and we can actually start looking at starting construction and building studios and making WBAI kind of relaunch in the 21st century.
[01:43:37.030 --> 01:43:37.910]  I think that'd be really awesome.
[01:43:38.610 --> 01:43:40.590]  212-209-2950.
[01:43:41.410 --> 01:43:43.310]  Bernie, are you still there?
[01:43:45.410 --> 01:43:46.510]  Manuel, I'm still here.
[01:43:46.670 --> 01:43:46.850]  Okay.
[01:43:47.510 --> 01:43:50.430]  Any thoughts or points you'd like to make?
[01:43:50.590 --> 01:43:55.750]  Well, I'm actually, as you are, very hopeful that WBAI really is turning the corner.
[01:43:55.950 --> 01:43:56.750]  This isn't BS.
[01:43:57.050 --> 01:44:09.990]  It really are with some new program director and some new outlook with WBAI management, I think, and some big changes coming along in other ways.
[01:44:10.490 --> 01:44:14.090]  I think WBAI really is turning the corner.
[01:44:14.370 --> 01:44:17.810]  I know we've said this before, but this is really, this is the deal.
[01:44:17.890 --> 01:44:18.970]  You saw it with your own eyes.
[01:44:19.130 --> 01:44:20.430]  We got the premiums out.
[01:44:20.610 --> 01:44:25.350]  We've got a good showing for tonight's show to keep this show on the air.
[01:44:25.870 --> 01:44:29.990]  Things are really working well, and I think this radio station is worth supporting.
[01:44:30.170 --> 01:44:34.930]  There's nothing else like it on the air in New York or practically anywhere else in the country.
[01:44:35.170 --> 01:44:39.350]  So I really urge our listeners to call 212-209-2950.
[01:44:39.750 --> 01:44:40.930]  Pledge whatever you can.
[01:44:41.050 --> 01:44:52.510]  The amount really isn't that important, but if you can afford to pledge $75, we will send you every single Steve Rambam Hope video, dozens of hours of fascinating audio video.
[01:44:52.970 --> 01:44:57.970]  If you can afford $125, we will send you all the Hope X videos.
[01:44:58.350 --> 01:45:02.190]  Both of these are on a USB flash drive, by the way, so you don't have to deal with optical media.
[01:45:02.410 --> 01:45:04.230]  So thank you.
[01:45:04.230 --> 01:45:05.870]  Do whatever you can pledge to support.
[01:45:06.190 --> 01:45:08.310]  Call 212-209-2950.
[01:45:08.670 --> 01:45:10.490]  This is a mission worth supporting.
[01:45:10.490 --> 01:45:14.570]  And you can become a WBAI buddy for just $10 a month.
[01:45:14.790 --> 01:45:20.550]  Just ask the person at 212-209-2950 for all the details and they will guide you through that process.
[01:45:20.750 --> 01:45:27.290]  There are all kinds of other things you can pledge for as well, but the important thing is to make the phone call and keep WBAI alive.
[01:45:27.510 --> 01:45:28.690]  Keep WBAI strong.
[01:45:28.890 --> 01:45:31.630]  212-209-2950.
[01:45:31.930 --> 01:45:35.150]  What I'd like to do now is go back to 2006.
[01:45:35.250 --> 01:45:36.850]  And this was a special year.
[01:45:37.750 --> 01:45:40.990]  Because Steve, this was the year that you got arrested at Hope.
[01:45:41.390 --> 01:45:42.850]  It was Hope number six.
[01:45:43.350 --> 01:45:46.230]  And your talk was not... well, your talk was given by other people.
[01:45:46.310 --> 01:45:47.150]  It was not given by you.
[01:45:47.790 --> 01:45:53.410]  But what we did was, and what we will do for the flash drive, we will include the talk that was given in your absence.
[01:45:53.410 --> 01:46:00.330]  But we will also include the talk that we're excerpting now, which took place at Stevens Institute over in New Jersey.
[01:46:00.970 --> 01:46:02.290]  I think it was in November.
[01:46:02.490 --> 01:46:03.810]  We had the last talk.
[01:46:04.030 --> 01:46:07.130]  You know, I have to set this up for you before you play.
[01:46:07.130 --> 01:46:08.250]  If you can do it in less than a minute.
[01:46:09.050 --> 01:46:10.310]  No, I'll do it afterwards.
[01:46:10.530 --> 01:46:11.170]  Go ahead.
[01:46:11.690 --> 01:46:12.130]  Okay.
[01:46:12.190 --> 01:46:24.770]  We're going to excerpt that final talk of Hope X, which we were vowing was going to take place whenever we could schedule it after the feds kind of interrupted the party back in that year.
[01:46:25.390 --> 01:46:29.450]  This is from from Steve's talk at the Stevens Institute.
[01:46:29.590 --> 01:46:31.130]  212-209-2950.
[01:46:31.370 --> 01:46:33.970]  Call up while this is playing and pledge your support.
[01:46:34.210 --> 01:46:35.170]  2006 here.
[01:46:35.610 --> 01:46:37.050]  Okay, if we could have your attention.
[01:46:37.330 --> 01:46:37.590]  Ready?
[01:46:38.310 --> 01:46:38.970]  Everybody here?
[01:46:39.110 --> 01:46:39.190]  Good.
[01:46:40.210 --> 01:46:42.470]  Welcome to the final talk of the Hope Conference.
[01:46:49.330 --> 01:46:52.150]  I want to thank you all for braving the elements to get here.
[01:46:52.410 --> 01:46:55.030]  I want to thank Stevens for allowing us to be here.
[01:46:55.330 --> 01:46:58.890]  I want to thank Arsene for arranging all of this and making it possible.
[01:47:04.910 --> 01:47:12.570]  And of course, the person to really thank is the person who stuck through a lot of hell in July and came back to give the talk that he wasn't able to give in July.
[01:47:13.170 --> 01:47:13.950]  Steve Rambam.
[01:47:16.050 --> 01:47:16.750]  Thank you.
[01:47:20.100 --> 01:47:24.680]  As Eric pointed out, this is quite a bit of unfinished business.
[01:47:25.280 --> 01:47:28.000]  Three months late, but better late than never.
[01:47:28.580 --> 01:47:30.200]  Where is Arsene, by the way?
[01:47:32.980 --> 01:47:37.420]  Before I start, I just very much want to thank Arsene for setting this up.
[01:47:37.560 --> 01:47:39.980]  I got an email from him out of the blue.
[01:47:40.220 --> 01:47:47.460]  He said, I understand that, no idea who he was, didn't have any affiliation with 2600 that I knew of.
[01:47:47.840 --> 01:47:52.680]  He sent an email to me, I think I was actually in the Far East at the time.
[01:47:53.600 --> 01:48:07.260]  And it said something along the lines of, my name is Arsene Lebedev, and I would like you to come to Stevens Institute of Technology and give this speech.
[01:48:08.060 --> 01:48:09.820]  And we emailed back and forth.
[01:48:10.040 --> 01:48:15.560]  And first of all, I didn't believe that somebody with the name Arsene Lebedev existed.
[01:48:16.640 --> 01:48:20.740]  And basically, he just kept saying, come to Stevens on the 16th.
[01:48:20.800 --> 01:48:21.740]  Everything will be fine.
[01:48:21.940 --> 01:48:23.420]  And you know, can you make it?
[01:48:23.500 --> 01:48:24.600]  How big a room do you need?
[01:48:24.940 --> 01:48:28.620]  And I'm thinking like, yeah, sure, Borat, I'm going to fall for this.
[01:48:29.340 --> 01:48:38.080]  You know, I expected to come here and find a guy in a shiny gold thong with a wrestling bear or something, but...
[01:48:38.080 --> 01:48:39.280]  It's tomorrow.
[01:48:39.440 --> 01:48:40.320]  That's tomorrow.
[01:48:40.700 --> 01:48:42.460]  Come back after 12.
[01:48:45.380 --> 01:48:56.940]  The fact that this late in the game with crappy weather out of nowhere that we have a standing room only crowd is entirely due to arsene.
[01:48:57.200 --> 01:49:00.960]  So give him money, buy him food, do something.
[01:49:04.920 --> 01:49:10.100]  Let me very quickly tell you what we're doing here today.
[01:49:11.440 --> 01:49:23.040]  This is normally part of an eight-hour, full-day course, which is half a day computer-aided investigation and half a day foreign investigation.
[01:49:23.460 --> 01:49:44.160]  The computer-aided investigation portion, which we've modified into a privacy seminar for 2600, 400, is essentially designed to teach investigators law enforcement, people with a genuine need to know how to track people down and find things out about them,
[01:49:44.400 --> 01:49:46.640]  how to do it before they go out in the field.
[01:49:47.320 --> 01:49:57.160]  Computer-aided investigation and database access is now an essential part of any investigator or law enforcement officers toolkit.
[01:49:57.640 --> 01:50:06.420]  And then in the afternoon we move on to the foreign investigation portion of it, where we cover what to do if they have to go out of the country.
[01:50:08.120 --> 01:50:19.680]  Over the years working with 2600, we've put together a speech and we've realized that privacy is in fact the mirror image of database investigation.
[01:50:20.140 --> 01:50:30.520]  You can't talk about access to people's personal information and you can't talk about who can access it without discussing what's out there and who should be able to access it.
[01:50:34.540 --> 01:50:52.380]  As part of the seminar that I was supposed to give 90 days ago and that I'm giving tonight, we asked for a volunteer, we asked for a victim, somebody to call in or write in and allow us to essentially invade his privacy, find out everything we could about him.
[01:50:53.020 --> 01:51:03.360]  And we got a number of volunteers, most of them were people who were either too young or too nice to have any sort of history.
[01:51:05.120 --> 01:51:08.600]  Thank goodness a guy by the name of Rick Dakin volunteered.
[01:51:08.800 --> 01:51:13.280]  Now Rick is very active in the online community.
[01:51:13.280 --> 01:51:14.260]  He's also a writer.
[01:51:14.380 --> 01:51:16.040]  He most recently wrote Geek Mafia.
[01:51:16.040 --> 01:51:20.340]  He's a pretty remarkable guy and there's a ton of stuff about Rick.
[01:51:20.440 --> 01:51:28.880]  And Rick is a very colorful guy, so not all of it is just simple where does he live and where does he work stuff, as you'll see.
[01:51:31.500 --> 01:51:46.520]  Because of Rick's cooperation, we were able to put together a program, which you'll see in a second, that allows us to talk about what's out there in private hands, proprietary databases, corporate databases, credit bureaus, non-governmental databases.
[01:51:47.360 --> 01:52:00.200]  Let me just dismiss governmental databases today by saying everything that you see us do here today, the government has 50 times as much, and they have access to everything that you're going to be seeing today.
[01:52:01.340 --> 01:52:17.420]  We're not going to talk about NCIC, FinCEN, which is where all your financial history is, TEX, TEX2, any of the incarnations of the databases used by what used to be Treasury, what's now Homeland Security, that sort of thing.
[01:52:17.560 --> 01:52:18.800]  We're not going to talk about that.
[01:52:18.980 --> 01:52:19.400]  We're going to talk about that.
[01:52:19.400 --> 01:52:22.080]  Okay, we're also not going to hear the rest of this, Steve, of 2006.
[01:52:22.080 --> 01:52:28.320]  I'm sorry to interrupt, but I just realized we only have a few minutes here, and I'd much rather speak with Steve live here in the studio right now.
[01:52:28.780 --> 01:52:31.800]  And Steve, I just heard you say something eight years ago.
[01:52:32.460 --> 01:52:36.700]  The government has 50 times as much, but today you're saying something very different.
[01:52:37.040 --> 01:52:37.300]  Correct, correct.
[01:52:37.620 --> 01:52:39.420]  The fulcrum has completely shifted.
[01:52:39.660 --> 01:52:39.780]  Really?
[01:52:40.040 --> 01:52:44.020]  It is absolutely switched proportion.
[01:52:44.320 --> 01:52:47.300]  Today, private industry has 50 times as much.
[01:52:47.680 --> 01:52:56.000]  Unless you are being specifically monitored, you're an Al-Qaeda member, you're an organized crime member, you're targeted for some reason...
[01:52:56.000 --> 01:52:56.900]  Or suspected of being...
[01:52:56.900 --> 01:53:00.020]  Or suspected, which is typically wrong.
[01:53:03.080 --> 01:53:10.400]  Private industry today has 50 times as much or 100 times as much as governmental databases.
[01:53:10.700 --> 01:53:14.620]  In fact, private industry has data on everybody.
[01:53:15.060 --> 01:53:20.480]  The governmental databases have minor entries on most people.
[01:53:21.580 --> 01:53:24.960]  But they also tap into those commercial databases.
[01:53:24.960 --> 01:53:25.940]  That's the point.
[01:53:26.140 --> 01:53:26.480]  All right.
[01:53:26.600 --> 01:53:38.740]  If you are angry at NSA, you should be blindingly furious at Google, and Facebook, and Axiom, and InfoUSA, and the marketing companies.
[01:53:38.980 --> 01:53:43.720]  Keep listing those names so people know who to be angry at, because I think a lot of people don't even know these entities.
[01:53:43.920 --> 01:53:45.900]  Well, you can start with Google.
[01:53:46.100 --> 01:53:47.740]  Google has damn near everything.
[01:53:48.900 --> 01:53:50.460]  Facebook, pretty outrageous.
[01:53:50.880 --> 01:53:53.240]  Facebook isn't satisfied with Facebook anymore.
[01:53:53.240 --> 01:53:55.920]  They reach out and they buy offline data.
[01:53:56.560 --> 01:54:12.040]  You have marketing companies that not one in a thousand Americans have heard of, like Axiom, like InfoUSA, like a bunch of companies with outrageous made-up names that mean almost nothing, but they've got every bit of data on your life.
[01:54:14.680 --> 01:54:31.640]  Let me digress and say, one of the things that we're going to be doing and continue to do on the television show that I'm involved in now, Nowhere to Hide, is we are going to be showing a lot of this sort of information.
[01:54:32.060 --> 01:54:47.620]  We're going to be showing tactics and techniques and tools and some of the coolest little investigative spy gear and how people are backgrounded and exactly what is out there on every single person.
[01:54:47.860 --> 01:54:56.660]  This is the first show and the only show that I know of that every single episode, we're going to be allowed to tell the truth.
[01:54:56.660 --> 01:54:59.260]  No monkey business.
[01:54:59.720 --> 01:55:02.380]  No puffing it up for ratings.
[01:55:02.660 --> 01:55:05.200]  Whatever you see will be the real deal.
[01:55:05.420 --> 01:55:06.280]  Nowhere to Hide.
[01:55:06.460 --> 01:55:08.780]  That's Steve Rambam's show on Discovery ID.
[01:55:09.040 --> 01:55:11.940]  First season is available on all different forums.
[01:55:12.280 --> 01:55:13.200]  Six episodes.
[01:55:13.360 --> 01:55:14.620]  Second season, beginning when?
[01:55:15.120 --> 01:55:17.900]  We're starting to film, I think, next week.
[01:55:18.140 --> 01:55:19.420]  Not film, excuse me.
[01:55:19.560 --> 01:55:22.420]  We're starting to prepare for the season.
[01:55:22.420 --> 01:55:24.640]  We'll be filming probably in a month from now.
[01:55:24.640 --> 01:55:26.400]  Do you know when the season starts on the air?
[01:55:26.600 --> 01:55:28.080]  You know, I don't.
[01:55:28.520 --> 01:55:29.140]  I don't.
[01:55:29.320 --> 01:55:30.800]  You think they tell you that, you know?
[01:55:30.920 --> 01:55:31.200]  No.
[01:55:31.380 --> 01:55:32.020]  You know what?
[01:55:32.480 --> 01:55:33.520]  I'm a mushroom.
[01:55:33.520 --> 01:55:36.900]  They keep me in the dark and feed me fertilizer.
[01:55:37.880 --> 01:55:42.600]  Well, I definitely will be looking out for that because it's awesome to learn these things.
[01:55:43.120 --> 01:55:47.140]  One more time, though, let's give out the phone number, 212-209-2950.
[01:55:47.140 --> 01:55:58.100]  Again, for a pledge of $75, you'll get all of Stephen's talks that have taken place over the years at the HOPE conferences on a flash drive, 212-209-2950, $75 pledge.
[01:55:58.360 --> 01:56:09.280]  For $125, you'll get all of the talks at the recently held HOPE X conference here in New York City, 100 talks on a 64-gig flash drive, 212-209-2950.
[01:56:10.540 --> 01:56:13.220]  Kyle, Bernie, any final words from you guys?
[01:56:13.220 --> 01:56:26.560]  I just want to thank our listeners for supporting this radio station and for all the work that all of us do to bring information to the masses that is really important.
[01:56:26.880 --> 01:56:41.800]  So one last chance to call 212-209-2950 to support our efforts and efforts of a lot of people who aren't on the show tonight to inform and educate you and fill you in on stuff that you're not really going to find out anywhere else.
[01:56:41.900 --> 01:56:43.580]  212-209-2950.
[01:56:44.540 --> 01:56:45.880]  Yeah, please call in.
[01:56:46.060 --> 01:56:53.960]  And even if you're not interested in the thumb drive itself, just any amount, really, anyone can spare.
[01:56:53.960 --> 01:56:57.000]  Or if you would like to join the Buddy Program, please do.
[01:56:57.140 --> 01:57:01.960]  And I'd like to thank Steve for contributing and joining us tonight.
[01:57:02.260 --> 01:57:03.660]  My absolute pleasure.
[01:57:04.200 --> 01:57:04.420]  Yeah.
[01:57:05.140 --> 01:57:06.340]  Keep doing what you're doing.
[01:57:06.540 --> 01:57:15.740]  And please, everybody, support in any way you can the station so we can continue to broadcast off the hook and grow.
[01:57:16.120 --> 01:57:16.660]  All right.
[01:57:16.840 --> 01:57:18.340]  Thanks, everybody, for calling in.
[01:57:18.460 --> 01:57:20.880]  Again, the number, 212-209-2950.
[01:57:21.780 --> 01:57:23.960]  Going out with an inappropriate enough theme, I think.
[01:57:24.240 --> 01:57:25.900]  Steve, thank you so much for everything you've been doing.
[01:57:26.160 --> 01:57:26.480]  Anytime.
[01:57:26.480 --> 01:57:27.740]  Look forward to the next time.
[01:57:28.100 --> 01:57:28.760]  All right.
[01:57:29.260 --> 01:57:30.100]  It's WBI New York.
[01:57:30.220 --> 01:57:31.060]  Emanuel for Off the Hook.
[01:57:31.100 --> 01:57:33.040]  We'll see you again, I believe, in two weeks.
[01:57:33.040 --> 01:57:36.120]  You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[01:57:36.220 --> 01:57:36.420]  Good night.
[01:57:36.740 --> 01:57:39.320]  That's all you want left to see tomorrow.
[01:57:41.060 --> 01:57:43.680]  Secret agent man.
[01:57:44.120 --> 01:57:46.680]  Secret agent man.
[01:57:47.140 --> 01:57:52.300]  They've given you a number and taken away your name.
[01:57:57.160 --> 01:58:00.740]  Beware of pretty faces that you find.
[01:58:00.740 --> 01:58:00.920]  Beware of pretty faces that you find.
[01:58:02.560 --> 01:58:07.400]  A pretty face can hide an evil mind.
[01:58:08.340 --> 01:58:11.000]  Oh, be careful what you say.
[01:58:11.000 --> 01:58:13.820]  Or you'll give yourself away.
[01:58:14.820 --> 01:58:16.520]  Odds are you won't
[01:58:19.660 --> 01:58:25.440]  secret agent man.
[01:58:26.200 --> 01:58:31.480]  You'll give you a number and taken away your name.
[01:58:36.560 --> 01:58:39.360]  Secret agent man.
[01:58:41.120 --> 01:58:42.240]  Secret agent man.
[01:58:42.240 --> 01:58:46.300]  They've given you a number and taken away your name.
[01:58:46.300 --> 01:58:50.160]  Oh, don't you let the wrong words slip.
[01:58:50.480 --> 01:58:51.140]  Oh, don't you let the wrong words slip.
[01:58:51.140 --> 01:58:53.340]  While kissing persuasive lips.
[01:58:53.880 --> 01:58:57.140]  Odds are you won't live to see tomorrow.
[01:58:58.900 --> 01:59:01.580]  Secret agent man.
[01:59:02.060 --> 01:59:04.660]  Secret agent man.
[01:59:04.920 --> 01:59:10.160]  They've given you a number and taken away your name.