[00:02.740 --> 00:11.380]  Starting on Sunday, November 9th, the WBAI Community Advisory Board will be meeting every Sunday starting at 1 p.m.
[00:11.560 --> 00:22.240]  throughout November and December 2014 at WBAI, located at 388 Atlantic Avenue between Hoyt and Bond Street in the Borum Hill area of Brooklyn.
[00:22.240 --> 00:36.800]  Again, the WBAI-CAB will be meeting every Sunday in November and December at WBAI, located at 388 Atlantic Avenue between Hoyt and Bond Street in the Borum Hill area of Brooklyn.
[00:37.140 --> 00:38.100]  All are welcome.
[00:41.520 --> 00:45.500]  And you are listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:45.680 --> 00:48.400]  It's 7 o'clock time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:59.290 --> 01:01.250]  I cut myself while shaving.
[01:01.750 --> 01:03.750]  Now I can't make a call.
[01:04.470 --> 01:06.590]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:09.500 --> 01:12.040]  Bondi-li-bom for the best, expect the worst.
[01:12.700 --> 01:14.560]  I hope that's understood.
[01:14.840 --> 01:15.600]  Bondi-li-bom!
[02:27.820 --> 02:29.460]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:29.560 --> 02:30.760]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:30.780 --> 02:33.340]  We're back on the air after a two-week absence.
[02:33.620 --> 02:36.360]  This is Emmanuel Goldstein, joined tonight by Mike.
[02:36.660 --> 02:37.060]  Hi there.
[02:37.180 --> 02:37.600]  Rob T.
[02:37.760 --> 02:38.200]  Firefly.
[02:38.420 --> 02:38.780]  Good evening.
[02:38.780 --> 02:38.840]  Good evening.
[02:39.520 --> 02:40.440]  And Bernie S.
[02:42.460 --> 02:43.940]  I said, and Bernie S.
[02:45.040 --> 02:46.260]  And greetings from Pennsylvania.
[02:46.420 --> 02:47.460]  My mute button was on, sorry.
[02:47.680 --> 02:48.000]  All right.
[02:48.440 --> 02:55.280]  Well, first, welcome back to everybody, but especially welcome back to Rob and Mike, who have been absent for the last few weeks.
[02:56.420 --> 02:57.720]  Well, Rob, why don't we start with you?
[02:57.840 --> 03:02.120]  You've been out carousing, I guess, for the last month or so?
[03:02.340 --> 03:02.880]  I have.
[03:03.020 --> 03:05.040]  I spent the last month shouting at strangers.
[03:05.140 --> 03:06.260]  My God, what happened to your voice?
[03:06.880 --> 03:07.660]  Listen to you.
[03:07.900 --> 03:08.700]  Have you heard yourself?
[03:08.780 --> 03:10.740]  You sound like you've been at a Met game or something.
[03:10.860 --> 03:11.520]  I'm recovering.
[03:11.720 --> 03:12.620]  I'm on the road to recovery.
[03:13.340 --> 03:20.620]  But, yeah, I was shouting at people as part of our friend John Harlicker's haunted house, a theatrical haunted house downtown called Nightmare New York.
[03:20.760 --> 03:24.740]  The same John Harlicker who directed Urchin, the film that I happen to star in.
[03:24.840 --> 03:25.340]  Yes, indeed.
[03:25.340 --> 03:26.240]  I play man.
[03:26.440 --> 03:32.580]  And our Hope attendees will know him as the guy with the epic beard who sweeps up around a lot on the mezzanine.
[03:32.900 --> 03:33.760]  He's a busy guy.
[03:33.900 --> 03:34.040]  Wow.
[03:34.180 --> 03:35.840]  That must have been... sounds like a lot of fun.
[03:36.040 --> 03:36.940]  It was amazing.
[03:36.980 --> 03:37.660]  It was a lot of fun.
[03:37.740 --> 03:38.220]  I enjoyed it.
[03:38.380 --> 03:42.680]  Rob, you were telling me that part of the reason for your missing voice is Typhoid Mary.
[03:43.720 --> 03:44.700]  Infected you or something?
[03:44.700 --> 03:49.400]  Yeah, there was another performer in the haunted house who played Typhoid Mary, and she gave me a cold.
[03:50.280 --> 03:52.060]  So, yeah, Typhoid Mary made me sick.
[03:52.140 --> 03:52.940]  I unlocked that achievement.
[03:53.040 --> 03:54.280]  I heard there was an Ebola Brian.
[03:54.380 --> 03:55.660]  Is that true, or is that just a rumor?
[03:56.220 --> 03:57.300]  I think he was a patron.
[03:57.440 --> 03:58.660]  You should be joking about Ebola.
[03:58.840 --> 03:59.480]  That's not funny.
[04:00.020 --> 04:01.180]  Again, neither is Typhoid.
[04:02.640 --> 04:04.420]  And, Mike, you're... go ahead.
[04:04.600 --> 04:09.940]  Yeah, I think, like, probably in this calendar year, like, more people have died of Typhoid than Ebola.
[04:10.160 --> 04:12.240]  I'm not sure if that's true, but it seems quite likely.
[04:12.240 --> 04:16.080]  More people have died from having windows fall on them than...
[04:16.540 --> 04:21.200]  You name any kind of accident, and more people have died from that than have died from Ebola in this country.
[04:21.320 --> 04:21.820]  In this country.
[04:21.900 --> 04:27.100]  Yeah, I mean, like, people are seriously dying of Ebola in Africa, and it's nothing to joke about.
[04:27.260 --> 04:27.380]  Right.
[04:27.500 --> 04:31.320]  But Typhoid, you know, also kills lots of people, so I don't know which is more.
[04:31.480 --> 04:33.500]  Yeah, well, we should learn not to laugh at these things.
[04:33.820 --> 04:37.940]  Now, Mike, though, you're just back from another interesting setting.
[04:38.320 --> 04:39.300]  You went to India.
[04:39.480 --> 04:39.860]  It's true.
[04:40.020 --> 04:40.700]  Tell us everything.
[04:41.720 --> 04:42.520]  That's hard to do.
[04:42.860 --> 04:43.820]  It's hard to do in general.
[04:43.980 --> 04:45.660]  It's hard to do in the limited time we have.
[04:46.800 --> 04:51.420]  Maybe I'll tell you about reentering the United States, which is the most related.
[04:52.060 --> 04:55.340]  Yeah, you're going to cut out all of India and just tell us about coming in?
[04:55.540 --> 04:56.240]  No, no, no.
[04:56.380 --> 04:57.760]  I want to hear something about India.
[04:57.760 --> 04:58.220]  What do you want to know?
[04:58.240 --> 04:59.620]  You went to India, for God's sake.
[04:59.780 --> 05:04.560]  Well, I mean, did you meet anybody in the hacker community, for instance?
[05:04.740 --> 05:06.440]  Was Mitch Altman over there soldering something?
[05:06.440 --> 05:10.220]  You know, I managed to be in a country that Mitch Altman was not in at the time.
[05:10.300 --> 05:10.560]  Really?
[05:10.840 --> 05:11.360]  That's tough.
[05:11.360 --> 05:18.220]  Which was hard to do because he's in so many countries so quickly that if you stay in one country for two weeks, it's likely he passes through.
[05:18.340 --> 05:19.300]  But he did not.
[05:20.700 --> 05:27.800]  I did learn about some hackerspaces, particularly in Mumbai, but I did not have a chance to visit them.
[05:28.740 --> 05:32.060]  I was in Mumbai over a holiday, so a lot of stuff was closed.
[05:33.040 --> 05:35.580]  But for two weeks, there was a whole holiday for two weeks?
[05:35.660 --> 05:37.480]  No, but it was only in Mumbai for a couple of days.
[05:37.500 --> 05:37.680]  Oh, I see.
[05:37.800 --> 05:38.020]  Okay.
[05:38.580 --> 05:40.260]  Well, that sounds...
[05:40.260 --> 05:42.220]  Would you recommend it to our listeners?
[05:43.360 --> 05:45.060]  It was an intense trip.
[05:45.060 --> 05:53.500]  It was very hot most of the place, and there's a high risk of dying from a traffic accident or traffic collision.
[05:53.720 --> 05:58.740]  I don't know if you can call it an accident, if the engineering was so bad that collisions are certain, but...
[05:58.740 --> 06:00.860]  Even if you're nowhere near traffic, I understand that's a risk.
[06:01.140 --> 06:02.960]  Well, I mean, you can't be that far away.
[06:03.280 --> 06:03.640]  Right.
[06:03.740 --> 06:15.740]  You know, if you want to walk down the street and the sidewalk is full of a, you know, a vendor, and then there's a thing parked, so you have to walk in the middle of the street, you're near the traffic, whether you want to be or not.
[06:15.840 --> 06:17.380]  I hear the horns are used quite a bit.
[06:17.640 --> 06:17.780]  Yeah.
[06:19.740 --> 06:20.700]  Apparently, it's a rule.
[06:20.940 --> 06:21.560]  I don't know if it's...
[06:21.560 --> 06:33.360]  Yeah, it's a rule that if you, like, collide with someone and you didn't honk to warn them of your presence, then you can be found at fault, even if what you're doing is, you know, following the law.
[06:33.620 --> 06:37.700]  So, or what here we would consider the law or something.
[06:39.140 --> 06:47.520]  So, people drive on the wrong side of the street in both senses, that they drive on the left officially, and that they drive all over the place in practice.
[06:47.940 --> 06:49.300]  So, it's weird.
[06:49.800 --> 06:53.780]  Any observations on the telephone network?
[06:54.720 --> 06:56.060]  It's mostly cell phones.
[06:58.960 --> 07:03.840]  And a wide variety of, you know, sort of types of cell phones.
[07:03.980 --> 07:07.760]  Most people over here have, you know, fairly new cell phones.
[07:07.760 --> 07:10.460]  Many people over there have fairly new cell phones.
[07:10.640 --> 07:13.800]  Many people over there have old Nokias.
[07:15.300 --> 07:24.080]  Remember this, like, concept of camera phone, which was a sort of, like, intermediate concept after dumb phones and before smartphones?
[07:25.180 --> 07:26.920]  And I saw quite a few of those.
[07:28.800 --> 07:33.660]  And, you know, I failed to connect to the cell phone network while I was there.
[07:33.660 --> 07:37.520]  Um, the bureaucracy to connect as a foreigner.
[07:38.320 --> 07:40.640]  You can't just go to a store and buy a phone and be connected?
[07:40.820 --> 07:43.880]  No, I went to the store, and I'll tell you what I brought with me.
[07:43.960 --> 07:45.560]  I brought a photocopy of my passport.
[07:45.560 --> 07:47.380]  I brought a photocopy of my visa.
[07:47.640 --> 07:51.520]  I brought, um, passport photographs.
[07:51.880 --> 07:57.340]  And I brought a, a printout of my hotel reservation as proof of my local address.
[07:58.120 --> 07:59.760]  Um, and these were not sufficient.
[07:59.760 --> 08:03.200]  They also ended up taking a photocopy of my driver's license.
[08:03.460 --> 08:06.840]  And, and, you know, when anyone overseas is looking at your U.S.
[08:06.940 --> 08:10.080]  driver's license, like, you know you've lost, because they've never seen this thing before.
[08:10.220 --> 08:12.360]  And they're just looking at it because they've given up.
[08:12.660 --> 08:14.460]  Um, so they were looking at that.
[08:14.940 --> 08:18.580]  None of these documents contain my father's name, which is a requirement.
[08:19.300 --> 08:19.980]  And, um...
[08:19.980 --> 08:20.380]  Wait, what?
[08:20.460 --> 08:21.300]  Hold on a second.
[08:21.600 --> 08:26.700]  In order to use a phone in India, you have to have your father's name on a document?
[08:26.700 --> 08:27.200]  On a document.
[08:27.420 --> 08:31.040]  So they wrote down, I told them my father's name, they wrote it down, and, uh...
[08:31.040 --> 08:33.320]  Well, I'm just gonna raise a hypothetical here.
[08:33.340 --> 08:34.500]  What if you don't know your father's name?
[08:34.760 --> 08:35.460]  Yeah, I don't know.
[08:37.220 --> 08:40.340]  Uh, make something up, I guess, because they, they took my word for it.
[08:40.380 --> 08:43.300]  But anyway, they, I filled out all these forms, and they've made all those photocopies.
[08:43.600 --> 08:48.720]  And they gave me a SIM card, and they told me it would be activated, you know, maybe in a day, maybe in a few days.
[08:56.700 --> 09:01.520]  Activated, you'll have service, and then you have to call this number to, like, really activate it.
[09:01.760 --> 09:04.060]  Um, but I never got to that phase.
[09:04.180 --> 09:06.840]  They never, like, something, somewhere in my paperwork failed.
[09:07.060 --> 09:11.320]  And the thing about them not activating your SIM card is you can't call them to ask what's gone wrong.
[09:11.680 --> 09:18.060]  You know, I, I thought what Kyle and I went through in Germany when we tried to activate a phone, we had to go to a post office and, and give them an address.
[09:18.200 --> 09:18.940]  I thought that was difficult.
[09:19.100 --> 09:19.900]  This sounds insane.
[09:20.400 --> 09:23.360]  So you were never able to connect to the cell, cell network over there.
[09:24.020 --> 09:32.100]  I mean, so, so the, the irony is, um, my US SIM was connected and on roaming the whole time, but I, I don't have the right plan to be able to use it affordably, so.
[09:32.160 --> 09:32.800]  Okay, all right.
[09:32.880 --> 09:36.560]  So, I mean, you could be on the network, but you'd have to pay a phenomenal amount to get a local number.
[09:36.880 --> 09:37.860]  They make it that difficult.
[09:38.080 --> 09:38.640]  But I'm sure...
[09:38.640 --> 09:42.000]  And, like, according to the internet, like, some, people do succeed at this.
[09:42.140 --> 09:47.660]  And if I had been there for longer, I would have tried again, and maybe, maybe with a different company, and, and maybe succeeded.
[09:47.660 --> 09:50.460]  But I, I just sort of, uh, gave up, you know.
[09:50.840 --> 09:51.100]  All right.
[09:51.140 --> 09:51.740]  How about the internet?
[09:51.900 --> 09:52.600]  Any better on that?
[09:54.580 --> 09:57.080]  Um, some public Wi-Fi.
[09:57.420 --> 10:02.760]  Um, some of the hotels I was in had, uh, pay Wi-Fi and, at exorbitant rates.
[10:03.380 --> 10:04.500]  Um, and...
[10:04.500 --> 10:07.040]  Exorbitant rates by our standards or exorbitant rates by...
[10:07.040 --> 10:07.940]  By our standards, yeah.
[10:07.940 --> 10:08.080]  Really?
[10:08.280 --> 10:09.580]  I mean, but that's the way it works.
[10:09.660 --> 10:13.120]  Like, the fancy of the hotel, um, the more expensive the internet.
[10:13.400 --> 10:14.920]  And it has nothing to do with how well...
[10:14.920 --> 10:19.380]  I mean, among the populace, though, where people using the internet, and cafes, and things like that.
[10:21.280 --> 10:26.240]  Um, I was in some cafes, and none of them, or, or only one, I think, had free Wi-Fi.
[10:26.860 --> 10:36.140]  Um, and, you know, I was in, you know, to pay a dollar for a cup of coffee doesn't sound like a lot of money to Americans, but, like, only, uh, some percentage of, of people in India can afford that.
[10:36.140 --> 10:40.740]  So, like, reasonably nice cafes, and, and most of them did not have Wi-Fi.
[10:40.880 --> 10:44.900]  So, people went into these coffee shops, and they bought coffee, and there was no, what did they do?
[10:45.040 --> 10:45.620]  There was no internet.
[10:45.700 --> 10:47.620]  You can drink the coffee, you can read the newspaper.
[10:47.960 --> 10:48.240]  Really?
[10:48.460 --> 10:48.620]  Yeah.
[10:49.060 --> 10:49.320]  Wow.
[10:49.320 --> 10:50.400]  You could talk to someone.
[10:50.560 --> 10:51.280]  I want to go to India.
[10:51.380 --> 10:51.500]  Yeah.
[10:51.580 --> 10:52.280]  I want to do that.
[10:52.340 --> 10:54.140]  I want to talk to people and read the newspaper again.
[10:54.280 --> 10:54.420]  Yeah.
[10:54.420 --> 10:54.740]  Yes, Rob.
[10:54.740 --> 10:57.200]  Which, which relative's name did you have to give them to get online?
[10:58.140 --> 11:01.000]  Um, no, no relative's names.
[11:01.140 --> 11:15.820]  Although, um, in, in the airport, the, in order to connect to the Wi-Fi in the airport, they claimed that for security reasons, it's the law that they have to send you an SMS, which is difficult when you don't have a phone.
[11:16.420 --> 11:22.340]  Um, one, one airport I was in was able to send an SMS to my, to my New York number, so that was fine.
[11:22.740 --> 11:24.600]  Um, but another airport, I never got it working.
[11:24.740 --> 11:28.260]  So, so apparently you're supposed to prove your identity for any public Wi-Fi.
[11:29.740 --> 11:35.700]  Although, as with all kinds of laws like this, um, it's varying, you know, strictly enforced.
[11:36.060 --> 11:36.180]  Okay.
[11:36.240 --> 11:38.500]  Now let's skip back to when you came back to this country.
[11:38.640 --> 11:40.540]  You have a story that you have to tell us.
[11:40.580 --> 11:53.140]  So, I mean, it's not a great story, but, uh, we've talked on this program before about the, the global entry program, which is this weird, um, thing that the Department of Homeland Security has where you can, you know, fill out a form and give them some money and,
[11:53.460 --> 11:56.920]  uh, then you'll be on the, like, list of, of people who are in this program.
[11:57.400 --> 11:59.980]  Um, and I did that, uh, a few months ago.
[12:00.120 --> 12:02.500]  And, uh, you, Emmanuel, you said you did it as well.
[12:03.040 --> 12:04.220]  Well, uh, I saw it.
[12:04.380 --> 12:04.640]  I saw it.
[12:04.840 --> 12:06.060]  Let's hear your story first.
[12:06.180 --> 12:07.700]  And I'll, I'll briefly tell my story.
[12:07.700 --> 12:08.140]  Okay.
[12:08.420 --> 12:10.880]  So, I, so I filled the form online and give them some money.
[12:11.040 --> 12:17.160]  And then, um, then I had what they call an interview at, uh, at Bowling Green downtown.
[12:17.800 --> 12:32.540]  And, um, I went there and the, the, the interview is mostly they like make you watch this stupid video about how to use the system and, uh, ask you, um, you know, if you've, if you've been convicted of a crime, but they have the answer on their screen in front of them.
[12:32.540 --> 12:39.580]  Um, and, and, uh, and then, so I passed the interview and they, uh, they mailed me a card, which you don't use.
[12:39.700 --> 12:41.080]  They just mail it to you for fun.
[12:41.320 --> 12:46.840]  Um, but they flip a bit or something on your, on their database, uh, with your passport number.
[12:47.340 --> 12:53.500]  So then when I came into the United States, um, the, the, the main benefit of the system, let's be clear, is you get to skip the line.
[12:53.660 --> 12:56.900]  So like if everyone had the system, it would be no better than not having it.
[12:57.140 --> 13:09.020]  Um, but, uh, since not everyone has it, you get to skip the line and you, there's um, computer kiosks and you put the passport in the computer kiosk and it reads the passport.
[13:09.420 --> 13:13.500]  Um, I don't know if it reads the numbers or the RFIG chip or both.
[13:13.820 --> 13:24.280]  And then, uh, you have to look in a camera and it takes a picture of you and you put your, um, your fingers, uh, for fingerprint scanning to match against the fingerprints that they took at the so-called interview.
[13:24.520 --> 13:28.120]  So you're basically doing everything that the foreigners have to do, getting fingerprints and your picture taken.
[13:28.120 --> 13:31.380]  Um, except the thing that you don't have to do is fill out any forms.
[13:31.580 --> 13:44.920]  Uh, because what it does is it shows you on the screen your name and, and address and flight number and all this information that you, like when you fill out that stupid form, like, you know, they already have all that information, but you have to fill it out anyway with,
[13:45.040 --> 13:46.340]  with the kiosk thing.
[13:46.500 --> 13:47.560]  You don't have to fill it out anyway.
[13:48.040 --> 13:52.220]  And you just have to like promise that you're not bringing any drugs into the country and then you're done.
[13:52.380 --> 13:53.400]  And the whole thing took like a minute.
[13:53.680 --> 13:54.600]  Because someone doing that isn't going to lie.
[13:54.880 --> 13:55.760]  Now, well, I don't know.
[13:55.760 --> 14:00.840]  Well, I mean, just to ask you about smuggling since now you are our best prospect, uh, they don't search you at all.
[14:00.960 --> 14:05.260]  You basically can just carry things into the country and, and, and, uh, nobody asks you any questions.
[14:05.420 --> 14:06.700]  Well, usually they don't search you.
[14:06.820 --> 14:07.060]  Really?
[14:07.380 --> 14:08.780]  I mean, when you enter the country.
[14:09.020 --> 14:09.400]  Or at least they...
[14:09.400 --> 14:10.940]  I'm not familiar with that practice.
[14:11.180 --> 14:28.760]  I mean, so you do, so then the thing spits out a receipt, um, and you go retrieve your checked luggage if you have any and, uh, and then you hand the receipt to, um, to the customs person at the exit and that customs person can, can choose to make life difficult for you if they want.
[14:29.260 --> 14:29.660]  And...
[14:29.660 --> 14:31.160]  So you're not bypassing that part of it.
[14:31.360 --> 14:31.400]  Right.
[14:31.400 --> 14:33.120]  You're just bypassing the line to get into the country.
[14:33.120 --> 14:46.460]  You're bypassing the immigration check and apparently sometimes, uh, or oftentimes for some people, uh, they get a big X on their receipt and that means they have to talk to someone immediately and, and I don't know what causes that or what happens.
[14:46.640 --> 14:46.880]  Oh yeah.
[14:46.980 --> 14:47.480]  I've seen the X.
[14:47.580 --> 14:50.840]  Well, that's, that's why I applied for the program, uh, over a year ago.
[14:51.540 --> 14:55.280]  Um, and, uh, you know, because I was getting searched every time I came into the country, I got fed up with it.
[14:55.340 --> 14:58.240]  I even wrote to Homeland Security and said, why do you keep doing this to me?
[14:58.320 --> 15:00.940]  And they said, oh, it's completely random every single time you come into the country.
[15:01.620 --> 15:06.160]  Oddly enough, ever since I wrote that letter, I haven't been searched every time I've come into the country, but I did apply to the program.
[15:06.300 --> 15:07.340]  I was accepted to the program.
[15:07.480 --> 15:07.980]  I was shocked.
[15:07.980 --> 15:08.640]  Okay.
[15:08.760 --> 15:10.020]  There's really nothing on me.
[15:10.140 --> 15:11.260]  I can actually do this.
[15:11.560 --> 15:15.100]  Uh, and I answered all their questions online and then I went into the interview.
[15:15.220 --> 15:22.380]  I had the interview at JFK airport and, um, the guy asked a question that was different than what was on the, um, uh, the forum.
[15:22.480 --> 15:24.700]  The forum was, um, have you been convicted of a crime?
[15:24.700 --> 15:25.880]  He asked, have you ever been arrested?
[15:26.120 --> 15:27.420]  And yeah, I have been arrested.
[15:27.440 --> 15:29.240]  I've been arrested for the Amadou Diallo protest.
[15:29.400 --> 15:30.520]  I was arrested at the RNC.
[15:30.740 --> 15:32.780]  I was arrested for hacking back in the eighties.
[15:33.160 --> 15:34.620]  And I have to disagree.
[15:34.620 --> 15:38.320]  This guy did not have any clue that any of this had happened.
[15:38.500 --> 15:39.900]  He, he was, he was dumbfounded.
[15:40.160 --> 15:45.700]  He had to go ask a supervisor what to do because I was honest, because I believe that I had to tell the truth.
[15:45.960 --> 15:56.700]  Uh, I, I kind of got screwed because I had to then go to every single courthouse or write to every single courthouse and get proof that there was no, um, actual record.
[15:56.700 --> 16:03.280]  And here's the funny thing, the hacking charge back in the eighties, that was set aside.
[16:03.660 --> 16:16.500]  The conviction was set aside after a certain amount of time, uh, you get the equivalent of an ACOD and you have nothing on your record, but in their eyes, you do in their eyes, you're still guilty, even though the conviction was set aside.
[16:16.560 --> 16:20.560]  And maybe something changed over the decades where you can't get that anymore.
[16:20.560 --> 16:26.260]  But back then it was very clear that if I, if I pled to that particular charge, I would have no record.
[16:26.420 --> 16:28.800]  If anybody asked me, have you been convicted of a crime?
[16:28.880 --> 16:37.500]  I would say, no, judges said this, lawyers said this, but the guy in, uh, in that little building in JFK said, nope, that's not the case.
[16:37.700 --> 16:40.600]  And, you know, I have to wonder now, am I technically a felon?
[16:40.680 --> 16:42.320]  I could be without even knowing it.
[16:42.440 --> 16:44.760]  I could have been associating with the wrong people.
[16:44.860 --> 16:46.820]  Bernie, maybe I shouldn't have been talking to you.
[16:46.820 --> 16:52.000]  Well, um, my question is though, um, if that had been expunged, and I guess it was expunged, correct?
[16:52.360 --> 16:53.820]  Well, they did use the word expunged.
[16:53.920 --> 16:54.860]  It didn't show up on the form.
[16:54.940 --> 16:56.560]  What they said was set aside.
[16:56.720 --> 16:59.380]  And to me, when you set something aside, it's no longer there.
[16:59.880 --> 17:10.260]  If it had been expunged, which is a legal term of art, you might, you, I think you could have legally said, no, um, you don't have a conviction, but you were asked if you were But I did say that.
[17:10.500 --> 17:12.400]  Yeah, I see the question was different in person.
[17:12.540 --> 17:13.300]  Oh, were you arrested?
[17:13.420 --> 17:16.680]  And yes, I was, and the way they look at it, it's really weird.
[17:16.820 --> 17:24.920]  They create this class of people that if you've ever been arrested, you are less trustworthy than anybody who has not been arrested, whether or not you were convicted.
[17:25.540 --> 17:26.820]  It's, it's, it's really kind of crazy.
[17:26.980 --> 17:28.440]  And you can't, and you can't be in the program then.
[17:28.800 --> 17:29.080]  Right.
[17:29.200 --> 17:33.620]  But the thing is, you know, there's a lot of people that haven't been arrested yet that are completely untrustworthy.
[17:33.620 --> 17:43.620]  And there are many, many people that have been arrested that were not guilty, but they, they basically look upon all people that have had any brush with the law as non-trustworthy forever.
[17:43.620 --> 17:43.800]  Ever.
[17:44.440 --> 17:46.180]  And I found that really, really distasteful.
[17:46.360 --> 17:51.340]  And they kept my, they kept my hundred bucks as well, which I really... Are you going to, is there any appeals process for this?
[17:51.340 --> 17:52.420]  No, there really isn't.
[17:52.680 --> 17:54.660]  And it was, this happened over a year ago.
[17:54.820 --> 17:57.000]  And I just, I got so turned off by the whole thing.
[17:57.160 --> 18:01.460]  And this is what, so they can get more information on me and I can give them my fingerprints.
[18:01.860 --> 18:02.840]  They have my fingerprints.
[18:02.980 --> 18:03.540]  They took those.
[18:04.080 --> 18:05.220]  I don't know if they destroyed them.
[18:05.280 --> 18:05.940]  I'm sure they didn't.
[18:06.480 --> 18:07.760]  But you know what?
[18:07.760 --> 18:08.780]  I don't want to play that game.
[18:08.860 --> 18:09.600]  I really don't.
[18:10.240 --> 18:11.100]  I learned something.
[18:11.200 --> 18:12.720]  I learned a lot about how they work.
[18:13.680 --> 18:15.180]  And confirmed a lot of my suspicions.
[18:15.400 --> 18:16.540]  I mean, I ought to be clear.
[18:16.680 --> 18:23.480]  This is a totally corrupt system for people who have a hundred dollars in certain social privilege to skip lines that other people have to wait in.
[18:24.460 --> 18:28.240]  But if you, if you're in that category of person, you know, you might want to skip the line.
[18:28.420 --> 18:37.140]  Well, for those, you know, business people that travel a lot, I guess this is, you know, a boon to them because they don't have to keep waiting in the passport line or the customs line to get into the country.
[18:37.980 --> 18:41.180]  But, you know, I have to wonder, this is the first step.
[18:41.180 --> 18:46.220]  I'm sure in years ahead, everybody will be expected to do something like that.
[18:46.460 --> 18:50.660]  Submit their fingerprints, get a picture taken whenever they go back and forth.
[18:50.700 --> 18:52.220]  Oh, we need a couple more terrorist incidents.
[18:52.380 --> 18:55.240]  And everybody will be clamoring to sign up for the program.
[18:55.240 --> 18:55.840]  Emmanuel.
[18:56.060 --> 18:56.220]  Yes.
[18:56.760 --> 19:09.120]  Hasn't, I think I heard just recently over the past week or two that the, what, 38 countries or so, Mike might be more familiar with this, that have sort of a favored status with the United States.
[19:09.120 --> 19:16.040]  Those citizens of those countries who used to be able to come in on a, without a visa now have certain more requirements.
[19:16.180 --> 19:16.500]  Is that right?
[19:17.700 --> 19:19.340]  I only know a little bit about this.
[19:19.440 --> 19:23.040]  Probably everyone that we know who's European knows much more about it.
[19:23.200 --> 19:30.060]  But there used to be this thing called the visa waiver program where you could just, you know, show up at a U.S.
[19:30.080 --> 19:30.420]  airport.
[19:31.920 --> 19:34.480]  And, you know, if you were from the right country, be let in.
[19:34.660 --> 19:37.720]  And of course, when I say just show up at a U.S.
[19:37.760 --> 19:42.720]  airport, like, of course, the airline has already transmitted before you fly the data to the U.S.
[19:42.820 --> 19:44.000]  government and the U.S.
[19:44.320 --> 19:46.320]  government can say, like, no, we're not going to let that person in.
[19:46.980 --> 19:48.100]  Don't let them on your plane.
[19:48.460 --> 19:55.560]  But now there's an additional step where you have to get some kind of electronic authorization.
[19:55.560 --> 20:01.980]  And again, probably, like, everyone we know who's European has filled out this thing and can tell you more about it.
[20:02.120 --> 20:03.180]  There's a fee for it.
[20:03.540 --> 20:11.320]  And the great irony that I've been made aware of is that the fee is alleged to go to, like, tourism promotion.
[20:12.660 --> 20:24.380]  But if you want tourists to come to your country, you know, you don't, like, make them jump through hoops and charge them $10 and then tell them after they've done this that they should come.
[20:24.380 --> 20:25.660]  You know, you just let them in.
[20:25.760 --> 20:27.880]  That's the way I would do tourism promotion.
[20:27.880 --> 20:30.300]  But I'm not in charge.
[20:30.660 --> 20:35.340]  I just marvel at the fact of anybody using whether or not you've been arrested.
[20:35.600 --> 20:42.820]  Not your guilt of anything, but whether or not you've been arrested to categorize you by, since anyone anywhere is constantly prone to arrest.
[20:42.980 --> 20:45.160]  You might not be found guilty of anything.
[20:45.160 --> 20:48.800]  It might end up a false arrest or whatever.
[20:48.800 --> 20:53.020]  But all you have to be is slightly interesting to the powers that be in order to get arrested.
[20:53.280 --> 20:54.860]  And false arrests happen all the time.
[20:56.060 --> 21:06.560]  You know, some people we know get arrested and then get settlements because the powers that be have basically had it proven that it was wrong to arrest them in the first place.
[21:06.560 --> 21:11.140]  So, yeah, just being arrested in itself is not an indication of anything.
[21:11.500 --> 21:12.480]  I have a surprise.
[21:12.620 --> 21:13.640]  The phone is ringing somewhere.
[21:15.280 --> 21:15.760]  Hello?
[21:16.520 --> 21:17.520]  This is Alex.
[21:17.700 --> 21:18.540]  Alex in London.
[21:18.540 --> 21:19.760]  Are you with us?
[21:20.200 --> 21:21.140]  I am indeed.
[21:21.140 --> 21:22.100]  How are you guys?
[21:22.180 --> 21:22.760]  We're good.
[21:23.020 --> 21:25.880]  I'm just calling you off the top of my head right now for no particular reason.
[21:26.000 --> 21:27.440]  Actually, I am calling you for a reason.
[21:27.660 --> 21:34.740]  You suggested being on tonight to talk about the Guy Fawkes celebrations taking place in London, which is where you're living now.
[21:35.420 --> 21:36.620]  Yeah, it is indeed.
[21:36.760 --> 21:37.180]  It is indeed.
[21:37.220 --> 21:38.280]  And it's good to hear your voice.
[21:38.320 --> 21:41.960]  And it was good to hear Rob's voice, even though it's not really his voice this evening.
[21:42.140 --> 21:42.360]  Right.
[21:42.860 --> 21:45.260]  And even Mike's voice, I have to say.
[21:45.500 --> 21:46.380]  But not Bernie's voice.
[21:47.260 --> 21:48.460]  Oh, Bernie as well.
[21:48.700 --> 21:49.100]  Absolutely.
[21:49.320 --> 21:49.960]  How are you, Bernie?
[21:50.220 --> 21:53.040]  We cannot forget you, Mr. Pennsylvania over there.
[21:54.800 --> 21:55.200]  Absolutely.
[21:55.200 --> 22:10.580]  Yeah, well, I was at the Million Mask March this evening here in London, which is, you know, according to Russia today, you know, the Vladimir Putin station, which is still broadcasting and is still going on.
[22:11.260 --> 22:14.260]  And it was a pretty extraordinary protest.
[22:14.260 --> 22:16.800]  I have to say, I've never seen anything like this.
[22:17.080 --> 22:23.420]  I don't know how many thousands of people were actually out on the street tonight, but I would say between maybe four and six thousand.
[22:23.420 --> 22:27.200]  So, well, OK, so it wasn't a million, but I guess nobody expected it to be a million.
[22:27.460 --> 22:29.500]  What were the issues people were protesting against?
[22:31.740 --> 22:33.420]  Well, you know how these things go.
[22:33.620 --> 22:36.860]  I mean, people try to co-opt protest with whatever it was.
[22:36.960 --> 22:39.700]  You know, in the 90s, it was, you know, Free Mumia, Abu Jamal, right?
[22:39.820 --> 22:45.180]  Everybody was out there somehow saying something about whatever they had a gripe about.
[22:45.320 --> 22:50.460]  But in general, it seemed to be that people were just discontent.
[22:51.080 --> 22:54.880]  People are fed up with their government for many, many reasons.
[22:55.160 --> 22:59.060]  And I think it was a panoply of reasons why people were out there tonight.
[22:59.260 --> 23:02.060]  And a lot of them were protesting corruption.
[23:02.060 --> 23:03.800]  A lot of them were protesting poverty.
[23:04.780 --> 23:08.280]  But I think a lot of it had to do with surveillance.
[23:08.280 --> 23:09.860]  A lot of it had to do with privacy.
[23:11.580 --> 23:16.740]  But I think, really, overall, the feeling was that there was a lot of discontent out there.
[23:16.920 --> 23:20.740]  And this ties into the Guy Fawkes history.
[23:20.740 --> 23:21.680]  How exactly?
[23:22.740 --> 23:26.280]  Well, it is the 5th of November, if you remember.
[23:26.640 --> 23:27.860]  You have to remember.
[23:28.000 --> 23:29.060]  Remember the 5th of November.
[23:29.340 --> 23:35.260]  This is the anniversary of when Guy Fawkes was supposedly about to...
[23:35.260 --> 23:41.680]  Well, it was a failed attempt to blow up the Houses of Parliament, which I did read a quote this evening.
[23:41.840 --> 23:48.060]  It said, Guy Fawkes was the last person to enter Parliament with honorable intentions.
[23:48.360 --> 23:49.720]  I heard that same quote.
[23:49.860 --> 23:51.200]  Yes, that's a really amazing quote.
[23:51.440 --> 23:53.640]  But somebody ratted him out.
[23:53.820 --> 23:59.600]  And I guess back in whatever century that was, pretty much the same number of people ratted other people out.
[23:59.600 --> 24:01.600]  And it was never successful.
[24:02.400 --> 24:07.780]  And I understand, from what I've read about this over the years, there are celebrations throughout England.
[24:07.780 --> 24:12.400]  But the celebrations are to mark the fact that the plot failed.
[24:12.400 --> 24:14.560]  Is that the case today, or has it been changed?
[24:15.180 --> 24:21.720]  Well, tonight, I think it was not really a celebration of a policy akin to, if you see something, say something.
[24:22.520 --> 24:26.220]  It was very much, I think, the opposite of that.
[24:27.400 --> 24:29.060]  And I couldn't...
[24:29.060 --> 24:31.680]  It's a bizarre history, for sure.
[24:31.680 --> 24:37.140]  But it's definitely been overtaken by a different frame of mind these days.
[24:37.720 --> 24:45.400]  And, you know, it was really, really extraordinary to see thousands of people walking the streets with Guy Fawkes masks on.
[24:46.460 --> 25:04.240]  And one of the things that's very interesting, too, is the media and various outlets on the web have been saying that this whole thing was organized by the anonymous hacktivist group, which, you know, it was strange because, you know, nothing really seemed to be organized at all.
[25:04.360 --> 25:10.380]  People started to congregate around Trafalgar Square shortly before 6 p.m.
[25:10.380 --> 25:13.000]  People were there, I think, around 3 p.m.
[25:13.000 --> 25:17.260]  or 4 p.m., but it really started to get packed around 6 p.m.
[25:17.260 --> 25:26.300]  And then it reached this critical mass where, if you stood on the steps of the National Gallery and looked down, I mean, the whole place was just full of protesters.
[25:26.660 --> 25:29.520]  And at Nelson's Column, people were shooting up fireworks.
[25:29.700 --> 25:32.700]  The police were announcing that the shooting of fireworks was illegal.
[25:32.700 --> 25:34.020]  They were being booed.
[25:34.020 --> 25:38.240]  And, you know, it was just a pandemonium for a while.
[25:39.080 --> 25:43.660]  But they were supposed to, you know, we were supposed to walk to Parliament, and nobody was walking.
[25:43.880 --> 25:53.580]  And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, without any organization, everybody just started walking to Parliament, thousands and thousands of people.
[25:54.320 --> 25:59.560]  And then we got to Parliament, and in front of Parliament Square, we stayed there for a while.
[26:01.320 --> 26:06.580]  And things actually stood to get a little scary and a little bit rowdy in front of Parliament.
[26:07.020 --> 26:08.880]  There were a couple of clashes with the police.
[26:09.000 --> 26:10.460]  I didn't see any arrests.
[26:12.100 --> 26:17.760]  And really, to be fair, I have to say that the police force here was very patient.
[26:18.580 --> 26:22.560]  They were being taunted, and they had fireworks thrown at them.
[26:22.760 --> 26:27.320]  There were models being thrown at them, and they were pretty patient.
[26:27.860 --> 26:33.700]  And there was some saber-rattling, for sure, but, you know, there was barely any violence.
[26:33.840 --> 26:36.560]  I wouldn't say there was no violence, but there was barely any violence.
[26:37.280 --> 26:42.560]  But at one point, in front of Parliament, everybody wanted to move again.
[26:43.840 --> 26:50.500]  And the police decided that they weren't going to let anybody move, so they tried to box everyone in.
[26:50.500 --> 27:00.660]  Somehow, I managed to be right on the front lines of this, literally, you know, one person away from the police and hundreds and hundreds of people pushing from behind.
[27:01.420 --> 27:07.020]  And that was an interesting moment, because I literally had no choice.
[27:07.020 --> 27:11.260]  I was going to push through a police barricade by people behind me.
[27:11.260 --> 27:14.480]  And I almost lost my shoe in the process.
[27:14.820 --> 27:22.600]  I was... but then we managed to make our way down to Buckingham Palace and then into St. James's Park.
[27:22.780 --> 27:30.860]  And then a protest kind of spilled out into Oxford Street, went up Regent Street, walked around Mayfair.
[27:31.020 --> 27:34.300]  You got a real walking tour of London there with a few thousand people.
[27:34.400 --> 27:39.280]  It was really extraordinary, too, because this is a part of London that is very, very exclusive.
[27:39.800 --> 27:49.100]  If you walk around Mayfair during the day, it's full of very, very expensive shops and rich people buying expensive, shiny things.
[27:49.420 --> 27:54.540]  And, you know, it's the kind of place where a lot of Londoners really just can't afford to shop or be.
[27:55.120 --> 27:58.660]  But tonight, there were thousands of people, and it was their street.
[27:58.900 --> 28:03.540]  It was pretty cool to watch that, to watch them kind of take back that part of London.
[28:03.660 --> 28:06.280]  I understand you have some audio for us of what happened.
[28:07.120 --> 28:07.740]  Oh, yeah.
[28:07.920 --> 28:10.820]  I can pull up some audio for you.
[28:11.080 --> 28:11.400]  Absolutely.
[28:11.860 --> 28:12.060]  All right.
[28:12.120 --> 28:16.420]  Well, now, you're talking to us over a cell phone, so I'm not sure how good this will sound, but it's about 30 seconds in length.
[28:16.580 --> 28:18.440]  So if it sounds awful, please bear with us.
[28:19.160 --> 28:20.700]  So you want to set this up for us?
[28:21.560 --> 28:22.020]  Yeah, yeah.
[28:22.240 --> 28:22.880]  I got you.
[28:23.320 --> 28:30.060]  I'll play you some audio from the police announcement telling us, you know, what was and what isn't legal.
[29:15.470 --> 29:23.890]  Well, that sounded about what I expected over a cell phone, but I got the sense that there were announcements being made and that people were not happy with what was being said.
[29:23.970 --> 29:29.110]  Yeah, people were not happy with the police and their announcements, you know, towards the beginning of the protesting.
[29:30.230 --> 29:37.590]  Even though they announced all these things were illegal, and especially setting off the fireworks throughout the entire night, people were setting off fireworks.
[29:37.770 --> 29:41.690]  And I've heard reports that five people were arrested this evening.
[29:41.970 --> 29:49.730]  But out of 5,000 or 6,000 people, that's a very, very low number of arrests, I think, that were made.
[29:49.730 --> 29:54.990]  And I'll tell you, the other thing that was pretty cool was that we wound up in front of the BBC building.
[29:57.250 --> 30:04.610]  And BBC, despite the fact that there were thousands of people outside their window, still hasn't been covering this protest.
[30:04.930 --> 30:07.030]  And this is no longer Blair House, is it?
[30:07.970 --> 30:08.870]  No, no.
[30:08.970 --> 30:15.350]  Blair House has BBC for many decades, but I think they moved over the past year or two to another place.
[30:16.410 --> 30:17.510]  Yeah, that's right.
[30:17.670 --> 30:20.870]  Yeah, this was right, and this was really central.
[30:21.330 --> 30:27.310]  And, you know, you could see the people in the windows staring out, the protesters shouting, shame at you.
[30:27.470 --> 30:30.030]  And, you know, I have the BBC on right now, actually.
[30:30.210 --> 30:39.010]  And, you know, there was something about pregnant mothers being branded as criminals if they drink while they have a baby in the womb.
[30:39.210 --> 30:40.430]  There's things about Ebola.
[30:41.450 --> 30:45.110]  There was something about the secret name of Mike's father.
[30:46.550 --> 30:47.690]  All kinds of things.
[30:48.950 --> 30:49.310]  Absolutely.
[30:50.890 --> 30:54.890]  Well, I'm looking at their webpage right now, and the headline is, U.S.
[30:54.970 --> 30:56.170]  leaders pledged to work together.
[30:56.590 --> 30:58.610]  So it's all about us in the end.
[30:58.670 --> 31:01.770]  Mitch McConnell's face has been all over the BBC this evening.
[31:01.910 --> 31:02.890]  Yeah, it sure has.
[31:03.270 --> 31:04.630]  And we're going to have to get used to that.
[31:04.750 --> 31:11.610]  Listen, Alex, we have a lot of other things to cover, but I want to thank you for sharing that with us and wish you well over there in London.
[31:12.370 --> 31:15.350]  It's great to have more correspondents throughout the world.
[31:16.150 --> 31:16.950]  Absolutely, absolutely.
[31:17.130 --> 31:18.390]  Anytime, guys.
[31:18.550 --> 31:19.510]  It's always a pleasure.
[31:19.710 --> 31:23.110]  And I'll be back in New York in December, and I look forward to seeing everybody then.
[31:23.130 --> 31:23.810]  I'll see you in studio.
[31:24.330 --> 31:24.610]  All right.
[31:24.690 --> 31:25.310]  Stay safe.
[31:26.170 --> 31:26.570]  Absolutely.
[31:26.630 --> 31:27.350]  You got it, Emmanuel.
[31:27.730 --> 31:28.030]  All right.
[31:28.090 --> 31:34.530]  That's Alex reporting live from London and on the Guy Fawkes protests that took place today.
[31:35.090 --> 31:35.610]  Wow.
[31:35.810 --> 31:37.190]  That was kind of interesting.
[31:38.390 --> 31:45.310]  Just another indication of the wide variety of things that we cover here on Off the Hook and on WBAI.
[31:45.510 --> 31:46.490]  And guess what?
[31:46.610 --> 31:48.990]  You know, today is a fundraiser.
[31:49.110 --> 31:49.510]  Ooh.
[31:49.730 --> 31:50.010]  Still.
[31:50.230 --> 31:50.930]  It's still a fundraiser.
[31:51.130 --> 31:51.890]  It's the remnants.
[31:51.890 --> 32:03.070]  It's like, you know, when a hurricane comes through and you have all this wind and rain, and then there's a little bit of time afterwards where it's just kind of, you know, the last few puffs of the storm coming through.
[32:03.150 --> 32:04.270]  That's what this is right now.
[32:04.410 --> 32:07.910]  We don't have specific premiums for the show.
[32:07.910 --> 32:11.030]  What we do have are WBAI premiums.
[32:11.150 --> 32:17.490]  And if you call 212-209-2950 and pledge whatever amount you can afford, you will get something cool.
[32:17.630 --> 32:21.790]  You will get, say, the Best of WBAI thumb drive for new members.
[32:21.790 --> 32:23.070]  It's called Pacific on a Stick.
[32:23.590 --> 32:28.070]  You can get an 8-gig thumb drive with 100 different speakers on it for a pledge of $180.
[32:28.490 --> 32:29.690]  There are all different kinds of levels.
[32:29.830 --> 32:38.450]  But what we're asking people to do tonight is to call 212-209-2950 simply because you want this show to continue.
[32:38.450 --> 32:45.350]  You want Off the Hook to continue on WBAI and bring you content like what we just presented.
[32:45.890 --> 32:53.830]  This is not about pledging to get a particular package or making the best of your time by getting a really good deal.
[32:54.250 --> 32:55.250]  It's investing.
[32:55.410 --> 32:56.670]  It's investing in WBAI.
[32:56.670 --> 33:06.570]  We'd like to see at least five people call in with that in mind, just to say, yeah, we support what you're doing and this is a contribution to keep you going.
[33:06.850 --> 33:10.050]  And WBAI will send you something in return for that.
[33:10.190 --> 33:20.250]  But for the most part, we want to hear from people this week that just support the radio station, support the radio show, and that's enough right there.
[33:20.410 --> 33:22.410]  That's really the crux of the matter.
[33:22.530 --> 33:25.790]  That's what I think our most faithful listeners are all about.
[33:26.070 --> 33:27.830]  It's the last week of this fun drive.
[33:27.970 --> 33:37.410]  212-209-2950 and it would be great to see people call in just with that sincerity that just want to see the radio show continue.
[33:37.410 --> 33:39.230]  Is that asking too much?
[33:39.730 --> 33:41.330]  I don't think it's asking too much at all.
[33:41.550 --> 33:52.990]  And also for our listeners who are maybe listening to this on an MP3 sometime in the mysterious future or who are listening now but you're closer to a computer than a telephone, you can always support us on the web, WBAI.org.
[33:53.510 --> 33:55.970]  Click through to support the station.
[33:56.190 --> 34:01.330]  Click off the hook as the show that you're supporting and support us that way.
[34:01.390 --> 34:05.830]  You could see a whole sort of catalog of the various things that you could get as thank you gifts in return.
[34:05.990 --> 34:11.690]  But mostly what you get is you keep the station open, you keep these mics open and you keep this going.
[34:12.690 --> 34:23.470]  Yeah, it's really important that occasionally we do it this way as well so that we see that it's not just people out there looking to get a bunch of DVDs or shirts or whatever it is we happen to be offering.
[34:23.810 --> 34:25.310]  It's not a shop at home network.
[34:25.470 --> 34:30.690]  It's a radio station with all kinds of content, all kinds of opinions, all kinds of controversy.
[34:31.310 --> 34:38.470]  And we need to know occasionally there are people out there that just support that, that want us to continue doing the show.
[34:38.890 --> 34:47.050]  And if you do, if you're one of those people and you haven't called in yet or even if you have called in before, there's nothing to stop you from calling in a second time.
[34:47.170 --> 34:58.150]  But primarily those people who have not called before, it would really make us happy, happier than you can imagine to hear from people who just want to support the show.
[34:58.310 --> 35:00.150]  212-209-2950.
[35:00.150 --> 35:02.210]  We only have about a half hour left.
[35:02.210 --> 35:08.830]  And my goal is to get five people calling in that just believe in the station and in the show and in the future.
[35:09.050 --> 35:18.270]  And I want to extend that a little bit by saying that I've seen what I hope to be a part of the future in the new facilities that we have in Brooklyn.
[35:18.790 --> 35:30.070]  And if we are able to succeed in building studios there, we have a location that is second to none as far as being right in the heart of Brooklyn, being accessible, being a community place.
[35:30.490 --> 35:35.510]  The only way we're going to get there, though, obviously, is to be able to build these studios.
[35:35.890 --> 35:39.030]  And the only way we can build the studios, obviously, is if we can afford to build the studios.
[35:39.670 --> 35:42.590]  Now, a couple of years ago, things looked pretty dire for us.
[35:42.690 --> 35:43.470]  Things were pretty dire.
[35:43.470 --> 35:46.930]  We were basically losing money like you could not believe.
[35:46.970 --> 35:50.710]  What we had to pay for rent on Wall Street was outrageous.
[35:51.390 --> 35:56.210]  And unfortunately, a lot of our employees had to be let go because we couldn't afford them either.
[35:56.810 --> 36:03.790]  So with all of that behind us now is the time that WBAI has been rebuilding from the ground up.
[36:04.090 --> 36:18.710]  Now, that's a symbolic type of rebuilding, but we can also have a very literal sense of rebuilding by having this amazing facility be constructed to be our home, our actual home, something we could not have even conceived of a couple of years ago.
[36:19.090 --> 36:28.990]  But if we don't have support from the community to do this, and I know it's asking a lot because we've been through so many crises over the years, but you have to keep believing.
[36:29.210 --> 36:39.690]  And if we don't have that belief either in new listeners or in listeners that have been around for many, many years, then there really isn't a point moving forward when we have to realize that.
[36:40.430 --> 36:41.370]  I went there.
[36:41.450 --> 36:42.830]  I saw what's possible.
[36:42.830 --> 36:44.250]  I saw what's being done right now.
[36:44.370 --> 36:45.850]  I saw the progress that's been made.
[36:45.970 --> 36:48.570]  And I've been pretty critical over the years.
[36:48.730 --> 36:50.490]  And this was inspiring.
[36:50.510 --> 36:54.470]  And I'd like to share that inspiration with all the listeners.
[36:54.670 --> 36:56.230]  I'd like for listeners to feel this as well.
[36:56.350 --> 37:00.010]  I'd like for as many new people to become involved with WBAI as possible.
[37:00.270 --> 37:02.590]  This location makes that happen.
[37:02.610 --> 37:06.370]  It makes it possible, but only if we're able to build it.
[37:06.510 --> 37:09.470]  And I think this is a turning point for us.
[37:10.010 --> 37:11.650]  212-209-2950.
[37:11.650 --> 37:18.210]  I hope those words might convince a handful of people to call in and show that, yes, in fact, we're out there.
[37:18.770 --> 37:26.370]  One of the things that's charming about not having premiums this week is that we don't have fixed pledge levels.
[37:26.490 --> 37:28.590]  So it's really about whatever you can afford.
[37:28.750 --> 37:45.190]  And what that means is that if you are in a tight situation financially and all you can afford is $5, we thank you for that $5 more than we can thank someone who can afford more and doesn't have to make a sacrifice to give us some money.
[37:45.730 --> 37:56.270]  If you can afford $50, if you can afford $500, if you can afford $5,000, whatever you can afford, we thank you for that and we really appreciate the support that you show us.
[37:56.330 --> 37:57.830]  It goes to keep us on the air.
[37:57.910 --> 37:59.930]  It goes to build out the new studio.
[38:00.570 --> 38:03.530]  Every dollar you give It goes directly to the station.
[38:03.830 --> 38:06.370]  And we really do appreciate it.
[38:06.530 --> 38:10.350]  Yeah, your $25 pledge does not mean less than a $250 pledge.
[38:10.490 --> 38:21.750]  Yes, it's less monetarily, but it's not less as far as the act of giving, as far as the act of contributing, as far as the act of believing in us that we have a future and that we are going to move forward.
[38:21.870 --> 38:25.490]  That's why I'm focusing on the number of people, not the amount.
[38:25.790 --> 38:37.790]  So if we see five people call in and say, yeah, we believe we can do this, that is really... those human connections are what will, in turn, inspire us to keep moving.
[38:38.110 --> 38:40.270]  212-209-2950.
[38:40.710 --> 38:42.250]  We can't see the call center.
[38:42.250 --> 38:43.210]  It's someplace else.
[38:43.230 --> 38:44.010]  We don't know where it is.
[38:44.350 --> 38:48.550]  But I hope that at this moment, it's a frenzy of activity with the phones ringing.
[38:48.810 --> 38:50.430]  We'll know, hopefully, in a few minutes.
[38:50.550 --> 38:51.850]  Sometimes we don't know until after the show.
[38:52.150 --> 38:59.710]  But please, if you are on the fence about this, jump off the fence on our side and call 212 209-2950.
[38:59.710 --> 39:02.610]  Bernie, I know you're very good at getting people to call in.
[39:02.790 --> 39:04.170]  Well, I don't know if it's me.
[39:04.170 --> 39:14.750]  I think it's the station and the content we bring to our listeners and the content that many other programmers on this station bring to WBA listeners.
[39:14.990 --> 39:27.510]  This radio station, WBAI, really is a unique and precious resource that wouldn't exist without lots of listeners all contributing something.
[39:28.630 --> 39:33.530]  Because this station does not accept corporate underrating like even public radio stations do.
[39:34.890 --> 39:39.310]  We accept little or no government money at all.
[39:39.490 --> 39:45.650]  This station is not beholden to any corporate or government entities except the FCC and we don't get any money from them.
[39:45.850 --> 39:47.130]  We just have to follow their rules.
[39:47.770 --> 39:54.950]  But we try to skirt them as much as we can to bring content that no other radio station is going to touch with a 10-foot pole.
[39:55.990 --> 40:00.250]  And we do that because we think it's important and our listeners have told us they think it's important.
[40:00.430 --> 40:07.970]  So, I would like anybody listening who hasn't pledged during this pledge drive to just call and pledge anything.
[40:08.350 --> 40:19.610]  Like Mike said, $5, $10, $20, whatever you can afford... the amount is not that important is the number of people who pledge by calling 212-209-2950.
[40:19.630 --> 40:28.690]  We need a little support for this station and for the show to show the station managers this show is listened to by people.
[40:28.810 --> 40:33.150]  I mean, there's Arbitron and all that, but that really... that's silly data.
[40:33.430 --> 40:38.230]  The information that really counts is listeners that put their money whether their mouth is.
[40:38.510 --> 40:43.550]  However small amount of money it is, it's important to call 212-209-2950.
[40:43.830 --> 40:45.010]  It's about people power.
[40:45.210 --> 40:53.410]  And that's what we're looking for tonight is to see people calling in and saying that they believe that there is a future here at WBAI.
[40:53.410 --> 41:01.210]  There's a future for Off the Hook and that we can continue to provide alternative radio and literally right on Main Street.
[41:01.330 --> 41:01.850]  It's not Main Street.
[41:01.990 --> 41:04.210]  It's Atlantic Avenue, but it might as well be called Main Street in Brooklyn.
[41:05.170 --> 41:06.090]  Think about that.
[41:06.230 --> 41:10.110]  Think about having this place right there in the heart of it all.
[41:10.430 --> 41:13.770]  And to me, I can't believe that it's there, but it is.
[41:14.130 --> 41:17.990]  And it's there because other people believed enough to make that happen.
[41:18.630 --> 41:19.550]  It's magical.
[41:19.750 --> 41:23.470]  It's magical the things... what we do every two years with Hope, with our conference.
[41:23.650 --> 41:24.510]  That's magical.
[41:24.710 --> 41:27.430]  It's something that comes about because people pitch in.
[41:27.510 --> 41:28.450]  It's not about the money.
[41:28.650 --> 41:32.370]  It's about the belief, the efforts, the commitment.
[41:32.910 --> 41:35.330]  And we can do the same thing here at WBAI.
[41:35.450 --> 41:40.710]  I know there's all kinds of controversies and conflicts and factions and all sorts of things like that.
[41:40.850 --> 41:42.230]  We need to look beyond that.
[41:42.310 --> 41:47.550]  And we are looking beyond that because there's always something more constructive to work on.
[41:48.030 --> 41:53.370]  And nothing says that better than having a brand new place and a brand new atmosphere.
[41:54.070 --> 41:55.650]  And this is how we get there.
[41:55.830 --> 41:58.490]  212-209-2950.
[41:58.670 --> 41:58.790]  Rob?
[41:58.970 --> 41:59.930]  It really is magical.
[42:00.190 --> 42:01.290]  You talk about people power.
[42:01.410 --> 42:08.990]  The station started in 1960 because somebody with the wherewithal to make it happen gave a bunch of activists the gift of this place.
[42:09.690 --> 42:11.750]  That never would have happened any other way.
[42:11.830 --> 42:16.410]  You would not have been able to just have the yippies or whoever get together and just buy a radio station.
[42:16.950 --> 42:17.790]  That's prohibitive.
[42:17.890 --> 42:18.910]  It's ridiculous.
[42:18.910 --> 42:33.170]  But this place has stayed around for 54 years, almost 55 now, purely based on what we're doing now, which is asking for our listeners to help us stay alive, asking our listeners to help us stay vital, to keep this going.
[42:33.430 --> 42:35.030]  And that's all we're still doing.
[42:35.190 --> 42:42.310]  We're not telling you what brand of soda to drink or what music to listen to or anything like that.
[42:42.550 --> 42:47.150]  We are just telling you the various things the various producers on this station have to tell you.
[42:47.470 --> 42:53.830]  And keeping us here doing that is nothing more than this right here, just asking you for your help, for your support.
[42:54.070 --> 43:03.770]  So if you call 212-209-2950, or if you go to wbai.org and show your support, you'll be part of keeping this going for a 50-50 year.
[43:04.210 --> 43:08.450]  Well, it pains me to hear your voice, Rob, because it just sounds like you're suffering.
[43:08.730 --> 43:19.450]  I mean, for you to come here in this state and speak with your vocal cords shredded as they are, that shows me the commitment that you have to this place.
[43:19.890 --> 43:26.070]  But let's give Rob a rest so that he can recover from all the shouting he's been doing recently.
[43:26.730 --> 43:34.930]  212-209-2950, if we get a bunch of calls, then we can walk out of here with our heads high and know that there's a future ahead of us.
[43:34.930 --> 43:41.650]  Something that you said, Bernie, was not false, but might have misled our listeners just a bit.
[43:41.870 --> 43:44.790]  You mentioned that we skirt the FCC rules.
[43:44.950 --> 43:46.810]  And we do do that from time to time.
[43:46.990 --> 43:52.910]  But by and large, the kind of programming that we produce is totally legal.
[43:53.090 --> 44:01.250]  Any radio station in the country could produce the kind of critical programming, the hacker programming that we produce here at WBAI.
[44:01.250 --> 44:02.410]  But they don't.
[44:02.510 --> 44:07.590]  Not because it's illegal or even legally dubious, but because it's not profitable.
[44:08.210 --> 44:12.130]  And here at WBAI, we don't really care so much about that.
[44:12.350 --> 44:16.510]  We think that if the content is worthwhile, then we put it on the air.
[44:16.950 --> 44:20.270]  And we ask our listeners to help us keep doing that.
[44:20.830 --> 44:24.150]  No other radio station is going to make you that offer.
[44:24.570 --> 44:26.110]  But WBAI will.
[44:26.250 --> 44:33.930]  And we and so many other programs here, the kind of critical reporting we do, that any radio station could legally do, but they don't.
[44:34.010 --> 44:44.470]  If you want us to continue, if you want everybody else here to continue, even if you just like us and you hate everybody else, no other radio station is going to give us this chance.
[44:44.470 --> 44:49.830]  Even if you like some other program and you hate us, no other radio station is going to give that other program the chance.
[44:49.950 --> 44:51.810]  2-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[44:51.850 --> 44:54.010]  By hate everybody else, you mean other radio stations, right?
[44:54.010 --> 45:04.310]  If we're the only program on this channel, on this station that you like, WBI is still the only station that's going to give you that one hour a week.
[45:04.410 --> 45:13.250]  See, I don't think that's possible because if you listen to the station, you will hear 360 degrees of different perspectives and presentations and things like that.
[45:13.390 --> 45:20.210]  That's why I encourage people to just tune in at random times throughout the course of a week and you'll hear things that would surprise you.
[45:20.210 --> 45:21.590]  We have an opera show.
[45:21.770 --> 45:22.670]  Do you know about that?
[45:22.790 --> 45:24.330]  I don't know how many people know about this.
[45:24.430 --> 45:26.870]  We have a soul program.
[45:26.870 --> 45:27.670]  We've got reggae.
[45:27.770 --> 45:30.990]  We've got all kinds of different presentations of music and public affairs.
[45:31.450 --> 45:37.370]  And this is at a stage where basically we're cut down to a bare minimum.
[45:38.750 --> 45:48.090]  Imagine when we have a new space and we're able to build with the community because we are right there, we are accessible, the amazing things we can do with radio at that point.
[45:48.090 --> 45:50.250]  212-209-2950.
[45:50.250 --> 45:52.670]  I do see calls coming in, which is very encouraging.
[45:52.730 --> 45:54.270]  And I want to thank those people who have called in.
[45:54.410 --> 45:58.510]  But let me also point out something which I think is very important to realize.
[45:58.890 --> 46:07.450]  We talk about the crazy things we do, the different things we do, how we stand up to authority and do things that no one else has done.
[46:07.830 --> 46:16.510]  And yeah, you know, this crazy experimental radio station, it's a bunch of people that just are standing up to authority because they don't know what else to do.
[46:16.510 --> 46:17.530]  Well, you know what?
[46:17.690 --> 46:26.750]  I maintain this is the most successful radio station in the city because we have kept doing this since 1960.
[46:26.970 --> 46:33.870]  And every other radio station that I can think of has changed at some point because what they were doing was not working.
[46:33.870 --> 46:35.630]  And they had to change their format.
[46:35.790 --> 46:37.070]  They had to change their frequency.
[46:37.250 --> 46:38.030]  They had to do something.
[46:38.030 --> 46:40.910]  But WBAI has been here since 1960.
[46:41.330 --> 46:47.170]  And of course, the atmosphere has changed throughout society in many ways.
[46:47.310 --> 46:48.150]  We've changed with it.
[46:48.510 --> 46:51.730]  And we've kept our spirit throughout that.
[46:51.890 --> 46:54.950]  And sometimes with great conflict from within.
[46:55.290 --> 46:56.890]  But that's a whole part of the process.
[46:56.990 --> 46:57.990]  We've survived.
[46:58.190 --> 46:58.910]  We're still here.
[46:58.910 --> 47:11.450]  Please ensure that we remain here and are able to move there to a better place and serve you better and get more people involved and really become relevant.
[47:11.650 --> 47:14.090]  Because those other stations, you know, some of them are nice.
[47:14.250 --> 47:19.790]  Some of them play nice little tunes occasionally, but they're not as relevant because it's background.
[47:19.990 --> 47:23.590]  It's stuff that you put on in the back and do something else.
[47:24.170 --> 47:25.390]  WBAI is foreground.
[47:25.390 --> 47:27.230]  It's radio that you listen to.
[47:27.350 --> 47:29.190]  And sometimes you want to throw the radio across the room.
[47:29.730 --> 47:32.650]  And sometimes you have to turn it off because it just drives you crazy.
[47:33.330 --> 47:36.070]  But it is radio in the foreground.
[47:36.250 --> 47:37.850]  212-209-2950.
[47:38.110 --> 47:39.410]  And we can do spontaneous things.
[47:39.530 --> 47:40.950]  Here, I'm going to do something spontaneous right now.
[47:41.030 --> 47:42.190]  You can't do this at other radio stations.
[47:42.370 --> 47:43.450]  Let's take phone calls.
[47:43.530 --> 47:49.650]  Let's take phone calls from people that either can say it better than we can as to why people should call.
[47:49.990 --> 47:51.210]  And we won't put you on the spot.
[47:51.270 --> 47:52.270]  We won't ask if you contributed.
[47:52.270 --> 47:58.090]  But I want to hear from listeners as to why people should call 212-209-2950.
[47:58.690 --> 47:59.390]  Look at this.
[47:59.470 --> 48:00.710]  See, the phone's lighting up immediately.
[48:01.150 --> 48:05.090]  That's because we can interact with our listeners that easily.
[48:05.450 --> 48:08.030]  That easily because we are here live in the studio.
[48:08.610 --> 48:09.090]  Wow.
[48:09.510 --> 48:10.750]  We've achieved our goal.
[48:10.870 --> 48:11.710]  I got to say that.
[48:11.790 --> 48:12.550]  That's awesome.
[48:12.750 --> 48:13.770]  That's awesome, folks.
[48:13.870 --> 48:16.730]  This proves that we're, you know, we have a future.
[48:16.730 --> 48:17.550]  We have promise.
[48:18.050 --> 48:19.310]  Let's hear from a listener.
[48:19.670 --> 48:20.210]  Good evening.
[48:20.330 --> 48:20.810]  You're on the air.
[48:20.810 --> 48:22.890]  Yeah, it's Tom from the Bronx here.
[48:23.030 --> 48:23.750]  Tom from the Bronx.
[48:23.750 --> 48:24.230]  How have you been?
[48:24.570 --> 48:40.290]  I'd like to say this, that there's a movie house in Co-op City that the government, federal government, obviously, has been giving out terror funds to look for terror.
[48:40.710 --> 48:42.630]  Terror funds for a movie house?
[48:43.270 --> 48:47.510]  Yeah, and other stores, probably.
[48:47.890 --> 48:50.530]  In other words, wherever they can push the idea.
[48:50.950 --> 48:56.830]  Well, listen, Tom, this sounds fascinating, but the purpose of taking calls tonight is to get our listeners to call in and pledge.
[48:56.990 --> 48:58.290]  Do you have something to say on that subject?
[48:58.470 --> 48:59.990]  I'm a pledger, believe me.
[49:00.490 --> 49:06.410]  I'd like to say this, that I was taken, believe it or not, for somebody from the Middle East.
[49:06.410 --> 49:21.930]  They have a bunch of idiots running around the movie house, and the guy, one guy they have there, little guy comes up speaking an Arabic language to me, wanted to see if I'd answer him.
[49:22.370 --> 49:23.570]  And what if you did?
[49:23.570 --> 49:24.650]  What's the issue?
[49:24.910 --> 49:27.210]  Well, they convinced I'm from over there.
[49:27.430 --> 49:28.830]  They're looking for terror.
[49:28.850 --> 49:30.070]  They're being paid.
[49:30.310 --> 49:39.510]  They had the Burger King that's next door to them doing the same thing.
[49:39.750 --> 49:51.830]  Okay, well, listen, Tom, again, this is fascinating, and we could fill a half hour talking about this, but again, we need people to call the pledge line this week, and we just want our listeners to be a part of that process, getting people to call in.
[49:51.830 --> 49:55.590]  And is there anything you can say about what makes you want to pledge to WBAI?
[49:56.830 --> 50:08.650]  For the reason of truth that comes from the individuals you have, that you interview, that's a big part of it.
[50:09.290 --> 50:19.010]  And believe me, after listening to corporate radio, corporate radio is sick, and they're getting sicker.
[50:19.290 --> 50:21.190]  Yes, but they're making more and more money.
[50:21.190 --> 50:30.590]  And that just tells you how out of symmetry it all is, that people make money by selling crap, and that's really what they are doing.
[50:30.850 --> 50:33.570]  And it's hard to produce quality and to keep it going.
[50:33.810 --> 50:40.610]  But Tom, I want to thank you for your support and for being there, for being the voice of reason, and stand up to whatever is going on over there in Co-op City.
[50:40.750 --> 50:41.630]  It sounds crazy.
[50:41.790 --> 50:44.690]  And maybe next week and the weeks ahead, we can talk about it more in detail.
[50:44.930 --> 50:46.590]  Well, I haven't gotten there anymore.
[50:46.870 --> 50:47.210]  All right.
[50:51.190 --> 50:52.310]  Royce, and we'll talk to you again soon.
[50:52.670 --> 50:53.790]  Let's take another phone call.
[50:54.110 --> 50:54.830]  And good evening.
[50:54.830 --> 50:55.890]  You're on Off the Hook.
[50:56.430 --> 50:56.690]  Yeah.
[50:57.070 --> 50:58.740]  I can say something about BAI.
[50:59.550 --> 50:59.750]  Uh-oh.
[50:59.750 --> 51:01.470]  This sounds like it might be a negative thing.
[51:01.670 --> 51:02.110]  No, no, no, no.
[51:02.110 --> 51:02.650]  Go ahead.
[51:03.310 --> 51:03.970]  No, no, no.
[51:03.970 --> 51:08.290]  I was a former, I'm a former squatter on the Lower East Side.
[51:08.810 --> 51:13.130]  I lived in the Lower East Side, all the abandoned buildings back in the 90s.
[51:13.230 --> 51:13.510]  Uh-huh.
[51:14.070 --> 51:19.090]  And Bob Fass, if Fass is listening, he knows who this is.
[51:19.650 --> 51:22.630]  Put us on, me and my comrades.
[51:22.930 --> 51:32.510]  Every time we were threatened with eviction, Fass and other producers would have us on to talk about what was going on on the Lower East Side.
[51:32.510 --> 51:34.050]  But, so...
[51:34.050 --> 51:37.310]  And Bob Fass is somebody who has been at the station since the 60s.
[51:37.390 --> 51:44.550]  In fact, in the 60s, he was defining what FM alternative radio was all about, what FM radio was all about.
[51:44.670 --> 51:47.470]  Because back then, FM was a new thing in itself.
[51:47.870 --> 51:49.030]  And he is still on.
[51:49.130 --> 51:51.490]  He's on every Thursday night, I believe, from 12 to 3.
[51:51.770 --> 51:54.790]  And it's still amazing to listen to.
[51:54.890 --> 51:58.810]  And his voice is still someone you need to pay attention to.
[51:59.370 --> 51:59.810]  Yeah.
[51:59.810 --> 52:03.350]  I want to say also that BAI is not alone.
[52:03.530 --> 52:08.830]  There is WFMU and KCR as alternative radio.
[52:08.930 --> 52:10.050]  And they're great stations.
[52:10.250 --> 52:10.750]  Yes, they are.
[52:10.870 --> 52:11.190]  They are.
[52:11.690 --> 52:12.550]  But they're different.
[52:12.650 --> 52:13.890]  They're different than WBAI.
[52:13.970 --> 52:16.870]  BAI is a unique animal even in the Pacifica world.
[52:17.730 --> 52:20.330]  And there are other stations to support for sure.
[52:20.770 --> 52:24.370]  But WBAI does things that no one else touches.
[52:24.890 --> 52:25.630]  Oh, yeah.
[52:26.530 --> 52:28.090]  Sometimes because they don't want to.
[52:28.230 --> 52:30.650]  But it's a necessary thing.
[52:30.870 --> 52:34.490]  But is there anything you want to say to our listeners to get them to call in?
[52:34.490 --> 52:46.830]  Just the fact that this is the only station where I can call up and catch at a producer or a guest if I disagree with them and call for the revolutionary overthrow of the American government.
[52:47.010 --> 52:48.550]  And they won't cut me off.
[52:48.890 --> 52:50.030]  Almost won't cut me off.
[52:50.030 --> 52:50.910]  All right.
[52:50.990 --> 52:51.630]  Well, that sounds good.
[52:51.750 --> 52:53.210]  Especially on Guy Fawkes Day.
[52:53.430 --> 52:54.670]  So thanks for that call.
[52:54.810 --> 52:55.490]  Thanks for the support.
[52:56.030 --> 52:59.130]  And I think this proves that, you know, they're out there.
[52:59.210 --> 52:59.950]  Listeners are out there.
[53:00.190 --> 53:00.750]  They care.
[53:01.330 --> 53:02.950]  And we need more of you.
[53:03.070 --> 53:06.630]  We need more of you to unite in the one thing we do agree on.
[53:06.830 --> 53:09.370]  And there's a lot we disagree on.
[53:09.490 --> 53:12.850]  But the one thing we do agree on is that we're better having this place.
[53:13.210 --> 53:15.430]  212-209-2950.
[53:15.870 --> 53:18.070]  We've met our goal of five callers coming in.
[53:18.150 --> 53:19.570]  But let's get more.
[53:19.570 --> 53:20.770]  Let's get as many as possible.
[53:20.990 --> 53:23.330]  Let's send a message that we want growth.
[53:23.330 --> 53:24.950]  We want expansion.
[53:25.050 --> 53:26.390]  We want to do new things.
[53:26.550 --> 53:27.670]  We want more community involvement.
[53:28.410 --> 53:34.590]  There's no reason to take the events of yesterday and look at that as a sign of the future.
[53:34.990 --> 53:41.050]  Because oftentimes, the way something plays out in the mass media is not the way it goes in real life.
[53:41.490 --> 53:45.110]  And I think WBAI is going to be the place to prove that over the next few years.
[53:45.270 --> 53:47.810]  212-209-2950.
[53:47.810 --> 53:48.190]  Mike.
[53:48.190 --> 53:53.070]  I don't know that we have the technology to thank the people who did pledge by name anymore.
[53:53.270 --> 53:55.830]  But they really deserve our extra special thanks.
[53:55.950 --> 53:57.550]  We want to thank all our donors ever.
[53:57.690 --> 54:09.130]  But the people who donate this week, whatever they can afford, without the kind of premiums that we often offer, really are showing their support for this place, for this program.
[54:09.130 --> 54:12.690]  And we want to give them, you know, extra thanks for that.
[54:13.050 --> 54:13.210]  Absolutely.
[54:13.470 --> 54:13.630]  Absolutely.
[54:13.810 --> 54:15.610]  Because without you, we are nothing.
[54:15.890 --> 54:16.490]  Nothing at all.
[54:17.870 --> 54:21.850]  And listeners of one sort or another have been with us since the very, very beginning.
[54:22.030 --> 54:23.490]  It's what drew me in.
[54:23.630 --> 54:30.530]  This show obviously would not exist if I hadn't tuned the radio one day to WBAI and been transfixed.
[54:30.530 --> 54:41.610]  And imagine there are hundreds, if not thousands, of people out there that will do the same thing in the future and will get involved in that way and do something even better, very different, and very necessary.
[54:41.610 --> 54:43.470]  You make that possible by investing.
[54:44.070 --> 54:45.690]  212-209-2950.
[54:45.690 --> 54:49.090]  These are the last moments of the fundraiser on our program.
[54:49.310 --> 54:54.830]  Next week we'll be back and we won't be asking for money, even though it's always appreciated when people contribute online.
[54:55.830 --> 54:57.490]  212-209-2950.
[54:57.490 --> 54:59.770]  Any last words before we sign off for the night?
[55:00.650 --> 55:02.930]  Check out your local 2600 meeting this week.
[55:04.210 --> 55:05.890]  2600.com slash meetings.
[55:06.390 --> 55:07.010]  That's right.
[55:07.690 --> 55:07.970]  All right.
[55:08.110 --> 55:11.210]  Well, you know, it is the 5th of November, Guy Fawkes Day.
[55:11.350 --> 55:17.410]  And while I guess blowing up Parliament isn't considered fashionable anymore, there's still a lot of anger out there.
[55:17.830 --> 55:19.970]  And it's good to focus on that.
[55:20.270 --> 55:21.330]  It's good to listen.
[55:21.330 --> 55:22.430]  It's good to read.
[55:22.790 --> 55:24.470]  It's good to express your opinions.
[55:24.730 --> 55:26.530]  And that's what this place is all about, too.
[55:26.970 --> 55:28.570]  212-209-2950.
[55:28.810 --> 55:29.710]  It's Manuel for Off the Hook.
[55:29.890 --> 55:30.250]  Good night.
[55:36.930 --> 55:38.670]  When you were young
[55:42.690 --> 55:44.110]  How the hero
[55:47.720 --> 55:52.600]  Was never one Always
[55:56.050 --> 55:57.010]  Got away
[56:02.250 --> 56:32.260]  Remember How the man Used to leave you Empty-handed Always Always Let you down
[56:38.650 --> 56:52.290]  Change your mind About leaving It all behind
[56:59.270 --> 57:00.670]  Remember...
[57:00.670 --> 57:02.070]  Remember...
[57:02.070 --> 57:06.470]  Today...
[57:06.470 --> 57:25.150]  Hey, hey... Don't feel sorry... The way it's gone... Don't you worry...
[57:27.110 --> 57:39.190]  About what you've done... Just remember... When you saw...
[57:42.330 --> 58:07.550]  How people... Seem so tall... Always... Have their way... Hey, hey... Do you remember... Your mom and pa...
[58:10.340 --> 58:31.740]  Just wishing... For a new start... Always... Always... Playing a part...
[58:35.640 --> 58:43.630]  If you'd ever... Be so sad...
[58:46.420 --> 59:03.050]  And the whole world... Is sliding in your mind... Remember... Remember...
[59:03.050 --> 59:19.450]  Today... Hey, hey... Don't feel sorry... About the way it's gone...
[59:26.500 --> 59:38.800]  About what you've done... No, no... Remember... Remember...
[59:53.500 --> 59:54.840]  That is it, huh?
[59:55.560 --> 59:58.580]  That is some... Explosion there.
[59:58.840 --> 59:59.520]  Who was that?
[59:59.580 --> 01:00:00.020]  The Beatles?
[01:00:00.420 --> 01:00:01.080]  John Lennon.
[01:00:01.620 --> 01:00:02.640]  John Lennon?
[01:00:03.160 --> 01:00:04.200]  I've heard of him.
[01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:06.300]  Yeah, I like John Lennon.
[01:00:06.600 --> 01:00:07.580]  He's a good guy.