[00:00.000 --> 00:02.480]  Bueno, this is Sonia Sanchez.
[00:02.940 --> 00:13.900]  I urge you to give your generous support to listener-sponsored community radio, WBAI 99.5 FM in New York.
[00:18.260 --> 00:19.740]  This is Julian Assange.
[00:19.920 --> 00:22.540]  You're listening to WBAI New York.
[00:22.720 --> 00:24.500]  Stay strong and keep listening.
[00:26.280 --> 00:31.800]  This is Julian Assange, and you're listening to Off the Hook at WBAI New York.
[00:33.680 --> 00:38.280]  And you are listening to radio station WBAI New York.
[00:38.900 --> 00:40.420]  The time is 7 o'clock.
[00:41.160 --> 00:42.760]  Time for Off the Hook.
[02:33.350 --> 02:35.250]  And a very good evening, everyone.
[02:35.430 --> 02:36.570]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:36.830 --> 02:41.910]  Emmanuel Willstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Mike.
[02:41.910 --> 02:42.730]  Good evening.
[02:42.890 --> 02:43.290]  Rob T.
[02:43.530 --> 02:43.970]  Firefly.
[02:44.150 --> 02:44.510]  Good evening.
[02:45.790 --> 02:46.230]  Kyle.
[02:46.630 --> 02:47.050]  I'm sorry.
[02:47.670 --> 02:47.990]  Present.
[02:48.250 --> 02:49.790]  I'm a little confused here.
[02:49.910 --> 02:52.930]  And on the telephone, Bernie S.
[02:55.230 --> 02:56.830]  Oh, I can press the right button.
[02:58.110 --> 02:58.890]  Let's try it again.
[02:58.990 --> 02:59.950]  On the phone, Bernie S.
[03:00.950 --> 03:02.350]  Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[03:02.610 --> 03:03.410]  Can you hear me okay there?
[03:03.410 --> 03:05.750]  Yeah, you sound really good.
[03:06.170 --> 03:06.750]  Yeah, here we are.
[03:06.810 --> 03:07.210]  We're in Brooklyn.
[03:07.370 --> 03:08.830]  We're in our new Brooklyn studio.
[03:08.830 --> 03:13.150]  Our interim Brooklyn studio, but we're in the same building we're going to wind up in.
[03:13.230 --> 03:13.930]  This is it.
[03:14.030 --> 03:14.450]  This is it.
[03:15.130 --> 03:16.530]  And they said it couldn't be done.
[03:16.610 --> 03:17.010]  Well, guess what?
[03:17.050 --> 03:17.510]  We did it.
[03:17.610 --> 03:21.690]  We did it with your help, and hopefully we'll have more help so that we can do more things.
[03:22.790 --> 03:23.150]  Wow.
[03:23.370 --> 03:24.210]  It feels good.
[03:24.290 --> 03:25.090]  It feels really nice.
[03:25.370 --> 03:26.050]  Sounds good.
[03:26.270 --> 03:29.450]  And it's a new era in WBAI history.
[03:29.930 --> 03:32.930]  The old era ended last week as we left the Bronx.
[03:33.090 --> 03:36.470]  I have to go to Harlem, rather, and made it to Brooklyn.
[03:36.470 --> 03:37.830]  I got my boroughs all mixed up.
[03:38.490 --> 03:39.270]  So, okay.
[03:39.610 --> 03:40.850]  What do you think about all that?
[03:40.970 --> 03:47.010]  The NDP taking control of Alberta for the first time ever, and the progressive Republicans are out of power.
[03:47.250 --> 03:48.270]  It's about time.
[03:48.430 --> 03:50.330]  A whole new era over there as well.
[03:50.690 --> 03:52.070]  Progressive conservatives, you mean.
[03:52.350 --> 03:53.290]  Progressive conservatives, yeah.
[03:53.590 --> 03:55.090]  Republicans, conservatives, same basic thing.
[03:55.190 --> 03:56.650]  Yeah, well, you know, we should call them.
[03:56.790 --> 04:01.850]  It's polite to address people as they prefer to be addressed, even if we don't like anything they stand for.
[04:01.850 --> 04:02.250]  That's true.
[04:02.410 --> 04:02.750]  That's true.
[04:02.890 --> 04:07.010]  But history in Alberta, and I'm told now that we're not supposed to be talking about Alberta.
[04:07.150 --> 04:08.450]  That's not the subject of tonight's show.
[04:08.810 --> 04:09.450]  I'm sorry.
[04:09.590 --> 04:11.990]  I must have gotten my notes confused.
[04:12.330 --> 04:14.870]  Which is the technology show, right?
[04:15.010 --> 04:15.890]  Is that what this is?
[04:15.970 --> 04:16.190]  Hold on.
[04:16.310 --> 04:17.090]  Just give me a moment, then.
[04:17.230 --> 04:18.950]  I'll get my act together.
[04:19.650 --> 04:20.290]  Okay, yeah.
[04:20.430 --> 04:27.030]  Off the hook, where we talk about hacking issues and various other events going on.
[04:27.030 --> 04:27.990]  And tonight is a fundraiser.
[04:28.150 --> 04:31.910]  Tonight we are asking for people to support the radio station, support the show.
[04:31.910 --> 04:37.510]  If you just want to do that, if you just want to do that immediately and cut to the chase, 212-209-2950.
[04:38.070 --> 04:42.650]  And I should point out that we have gotten our premium issues all resolved.
[04:42.750 --> 04:44.710]  Everybody should have what they pledged for in the past.
[04:44.870 --> 04:46.530]  We worked hard with the BAI people.
[04:46.970 --> 04:51.650]  And we don't expect any kind of problem in the future, especially now that we're all in the same roof.
[04:51.830 --> 04:54.430]  So I'm pleased as punch about that.
[04:55.710 --> 05:00.350]  And I'm hoping that we get a good showing tonight because we have special premiums.
[05:00.430 --> 05:04.630]  And we have like a new lease.
[05:05.050 --> 05:07.390]  Literally a new lease, but a new lease on life.
[05:07.710 --> 05:10.210]  And I think we're going to enjoy this place quite a bit.
[05:10.350 --> 05:11.230]  What do you guys think so far?
[05:11.290 --> 05:12.310]  You've been here a few minutes so far.
[05:12.310 --> 05:16.570]  Yeah, I got here early just to check the place out, see how everything was coming along.
[05:16.750 --> 05:18.650]  And it's coming along very nicely, I think.
[05:18.870 --> 05:19.650]  I'm impressed.
[05:19.950 --> 05:22.110]  I really am...
[05:22.110 --> 05:26.850]  It's the sort of thing that makes me proud to be associated with the scrappy bunch of misfits at this station.
[05:26.870 --> 05:30.790]  Because it's truly ridiculous that we're still on the air at all.
[05:30.930 --> 05:35.270]  It's truly insane that we managed to put together what we have here.
[05:35.430 --> 05:38.590]  And it's just plain nuts that we get to keep doing it.
[05:38.890 --> 05:40.150]  And yet here we are.
[05:41.490 --> 05:46.250]  We managed to put together our sort of broadcasting equipment in the right order.
[05:46.370 --> 05:47.150]  And everything's connected.
[05:47.170 --> 05:48.190]  And there's power and everything.
[05:48.350 --> 05:50.310]  And we're still on the air.
[05:50.470 --> 05:51.630]  You can't stop us, Rob.
[05:51.730 --> 05:52.590]  You can't stop us.
[05:52.610 --> 05:53.190]  You really can't.
[05:53.230 --> 05:53.830]  No, you can't.
[05:53.850 --> 05:55.610]  Because we've been on the air since 1960.
[05:55.970 --> 06:02.010]  And I dare say, you will not find another radio station in this city that has been so consistent.
[06:02.010 --> 06:05.930]  And I know that's crazy to say when concerned with WBAI.
[06:05.930 --> 06:11.070]  But we are probably the most consistent station on the FM dial, if not the AM and FM dial.
[06:11.570 --> 06:13.110]  And I'm getting waved at by all cars.
[06:13.190 --> 06:13.810]  What's the problem?
[06:14.230 --> 06:15.170]  You need to wave your...
[06:15.170 --> 06:15.910]  I need to what?
[06:16.370 --> 06:17.110]  Raise your level.
[06:17.250 --> 06:17.910]  Raise my level?
[06:18.030 --> 06:19.030]  I'm at the very top.
[06:19.110 --> 06:20.170]  You see how high I am there?
[06:20.370 --> 06:21.470]  No, you've got to get higher.
[06:21.790 --> 06:23.310]  How can I get higher than the top?
[06:23.470 --> 06:24.070]  Higher, baby.
[06:24.190 --> 06:24.990]  I don't know.
[06:25.250 --> 06:26.410]  I sound fine to me.
[06:26.550 --> 06:26.850]  I don't know.
[06:26.950 --> 06:27.830]  How do I sound to you guys?
[06:27.990 --> 06:28.670]  It's just the air.
[06:35.930 --> 06:36.830]  Should I be yelling?
[06:37.130 --> 06:37.930]  Is that what you want?
[06:38.230 --> 06:38.790]  I think we...
[06:38.790 --> 06:40.550]  No, you need to turn it up to 11.
[06:40.870 --> 06:41.890]  It's up to 11.
[06:42.010 --> 06:42.710]  In fact, it's up to...
[06:42.710 --> 06:43.370]  Oh, boy.
[06:43.770 --> 06:43.970]  Hey.
[06:43.970 --> 06:45.170]  Okay, and it's only my microphone.
[06:45.470 --> 06:46.850]  You guys aren't talking that loudly.
[06:47.330 --> 06:48.450]  No, it's all of us.
[06:48.550 --> 06:50.250]  So we all need to be louder.
[06:50.530 --> 06:51.770]  Can we fix this in post, maybe?
[06:52.010 --> 06:52.230]  Okay.
[06:52.230 --> 06:52.530]  Be nice.
[06:53.110 --> 06:53.570]  All right.
[06:54.130 --> 06:54.450]  All right.
[06:54.510 --> 06:54.990]  It looks like...
[06:54.990 --> 06:55.850]  You got us pegged.
[06:55.970 --> 06:58.430]  If somebody shouts, people's ears are going to be blown out.
[06:58.490 --> 06:58.870]  Okay, fine.
[06:58.870 --> 06:59.110]  Whatever.
[06:59.270 --> 07:00.490]  We'll just have to remain calm.
[07:00.970 --> 07:01.870]  And now it looks fine.
[07:02.230 --> 07:02.990]  It looks fine.
[07:03.090 --> 07:03.970]  It looks fine, doesn't it?
[07:03.990 --> 07:04.450]  It looks fine.
[07:04.450 --> 07:04.870]  Oh, it sounds fine.
[07:04.990 --> 07:06.470]  Everybody remain calm.
[07:06.470 --> 07:06.790]  All right.
[07:07.110 --> 07:07.830]  Trust me, man.
[07:08.050 --> 07:08.210]  Cool.
[07:08.390 --> 07:09.410]  Everything is good.
[07:10.010 --> 07:12.670]  Okay, well, that was the first hurdle we got over.
[07:12.890 --> 07:13.890]  And I guess...
[07:13.890 --> 07:15.230]  Bernie, do I sound better down there?
[07:16.450 --> 07:18.030]  Yeah, keep the volume up, though.
[07:18.410 --> 07:21.830]  Rob and Kyle and those guys, they sound at a good level.
[07:21.910 --> 07:22.790]  You're still lower than that.
[07:22.930 --> 07:26.450]  It must be the microphone, because I'm right up next to the microphone and that far away from there.
[07:26.450 --> 07:29.890]  Well, they're a much different sort of microphone than we've used in the past.
[07:30.150 --> 07:32.830]  Of course, this is part of the temporary studio setup.
[07:32.830 --> 07:37.370]  So I'm sure it will change and it'll get better, but we'll get through this at least one show here.
[07:37.530 --> 07:37.750]  Yes.
[07:37.910 --> 07:43.070]  For our first week, we're doing pretty good, but thanks for that, so we know how everybody sounds.
[07:43.170 --> 07:44.410]  But I think we're equal now.
[07:44.570 --> 07:46.870]  I feel like I can hear myself very well, and yeah.
[07:46.990 --> 07:48.050]  Well, I could always hear myself.
[07:48.090 --> 07:50.770]  Now I sound too loud to me, but that's my problem.
[07:50.770 --> 07:51.930]  You can turn down your headphone pot.
[07:52.150 --> 07:53.530]  Oh, I'll turn down my headphone pot.
[07:53.650 --> 07:54.150]  Yeah, that's right.
[07:54.230 --> 07:54.970]  Everybody gets...
[07:54.970 --> 07:56.390]  We all get separate volume notes.
[07:56.630 --> 07:56.810]  This is cool.
[07:56.810 --> 07:57.790]  Yeah, but then now you're too low.
[07:57.970 --> 07:58.830]  You see how it works?
[07:59.130 --> 07:59.670]  It's not like...
[07:59.670 --> 08:01.870]  Okay, it's not anybody's problem.
[08:03.290 --> 08:13.750]  So, before we get into the fundraiser, anything happen this week that we want to go over as far as eventful news or things like that?
[08:14.910 --> 08:15.930]  I have a blank stare.
[08:15.930 --> 08:16.630]  I mean, probably.
[08:17.250 --> 08:22.370]  I'm so shocked from being here in Brooklyn, I don't know how to transport news across the river.
[08:22.570 --> 08:29.290]  Well, any new laws or arrests or developments, bits of technology, things we want to share?
[08:30.130 --> 08:31.510]  I mean, you have a pile of paper.
[08:31.910 --> 08:33.710]  Yeah, but that's just... that's for a different purpose.
[08:34.590 --> 08:38.670]  Okay, I just wanted to make sure before we launch into anything else, Bernie, maybe you have something down there?
[08:40.590 --> 08:45.710]  No, I just think we have a lot to talk about, about the new studio and about trying to keep the station on the air.
[08:46.670 --> 08:49.810]  But I'm sure we'll come up with some technical anecdotes along the way.
[08:50.370 --> 08:50.690]  Okay.
[08:51.390 --> 08:54.410]  So, people know, right now we are in fundraising mode.
[08:54.410 --> 08:56.350]  We will be in this mode for the month of May.
[08:57.750 --> 09:04.470]  And we have one phone line, so we're not able to take phone calls at the moment, but that will change.
[09:04.470 --> 09:08.890]  We will be able to do things that allow for greater flexibility.
[09:09.150 --> 09:10.430]  So, I am looking forward to that.
[09:11.170 --> 09:11.610]  Again...
[09:11.610 --> 09:13.830]  We can take pledge phone calls at a different number.
[09:13.890 --> 09:15.110]  Yeah, that goes someplace else.
[09:15.250 --> 09:16.950]  212-209-2950.
[09:17.750 --> 09:27.450]  Well, I guess probably the best thing to do then is to launch directly into what we're going to be doing this week with some of the things that we're offering.
[09:28.110 --> 09:35.510]  We have a couple of books that have been donated to us by our friend Bill Pollack over at No Starch Press.
[09:36.510 --> 09:52.550]  And I think what we should do is focus on the first one now and then the second one a little bit later and give people the opportunity to call in and pledge their support and get a really, really nifty book in exchange for that.
[09:52.710 --> 09:54.550]  Or if they want both books, they can do that as well.
[09:55.130 --> 09:59.810]  The first book that we're going to be talking about is called Teach Your Kids to Code.
[10:00.350 --> 10:03.850]  Yeah, it's a parent-friendly guide to Python programming.
[10:04.470 --> 10:06.870]  Now, there's a lot of kid coders out there.
[10:06.950 --> 10:07.970]  Am I right on this?
[10:08.110 --> 10:08.450]  Oh, yes.
[10:09.050 --> 10:17.530]  If you ever interacted with them, I mean, they can communicate with us on our level, you know, talk down to us a little bit, maybe?
[10:17.850 --> 10:20.550]  Yeah, many of them even speak the same language as us.
[10:21.010 --> 10:21.410]  Okay.
[10:21.550 --> 10:22.450]  That would be Python.
[10:22.890 --> 10:23.230]  Python.
[10:23.470 --> 10:23.590]  Yeah.
[10:23.950 --> 10:25.110]  I don't speak Python.
[10:25.290 --> 10:28.490]  Well, tell us what Python is for those people who have absolutely no idea.
[10:28.710 --> 10:30.210]  Python is a programming language.
[10:30.330 --> 10:34.410]  And it's pretty cool in that it's relatively beginner-friendly.
[10:34.830 --> 10:45.280]  So you can do pretty much anything in it, but it requires less attention to, you know, curly braces and other stuff than some other languages do.
[10:46.380 --> 10:49.160]  And, you know, it's used for real projects.
[10:49.420 --> 10:50.600]  We use it at my workplace.
[10:50.600 --> 10:56.160]  It's a very popular language, and it's a great first language to learn programming in.
[10:56.380 --> 10:57.080]  Well, okay.
[10:57.200 --> 11:00.860]  So this book is basically, it just came out.
[11:02.700 --> 11:07.680]  It's written by Bryson Payne, and let me just describe it quickly.
[11:07.680 --> 11:18.540]  Uh, it's a parents' and teachers' guide to teaching kids basic programming and problem-solving using Python, the powerful language used in college courses and by tech companies like Google and IBM.
[11:19.120 --> 11:20.360]  Uh, are they still around, IBM?
[11:20.620 --> 11:21.140]  Oh, yeah.
[11:21.280 --> 11:21.440]  Okay.
[11:21.700 --> 11:21.720]  Yeah.
[11:21.960 --> 11:30.720]  Uh, step-by-step, uh, explanations will have kids learning computational thinking right away, while visual and game-oriented examples hold their attention.
[11:31.020 --> 11:41.180]  Friendly introductions to fundamental programming concepts such as variables, loops, and functions will help even the youngest programmers build the skills they need to, uh, to make their own games and applications.
[11:41.340 --> 11:44.040]  So it's really, uh, kind of a cool concept.
[11:44.160 --> 11:48.100]  Uh, not a new concept, but a really cool concept, something that should be encouraged.
[11:48.200 --> 11:49.520]  Now, it was written by Bryson Payne.
[11:49.640 --> 11:55.180]  He, um, uh, has, uh, he's a tenured professor of, uh, computer science at the University of North Georgia.
[11:55.360 --> 11:58.400]  He's got a PhD in computer science from Georgia State University.
[11:58.880 --> 12:01.740]  And, uh, he's been programming computers for more than 30 years.
[12:01.740 --> 12:05.460]  He sold his first paid program to, um, run the magazine.
[12:05.780 --> 12:08.380]  That was, uh, Commodore 64 magazine, I believe.
[12:08.920 --> 12:11.240]  Uh, and, um, that was back in 1985.
[12:11.260 --> 12:14.060]  He, his first paid program, he got 10 bucks for that.
[12:14.220 --> 12:20.940]  In addition to coding in over a dozen programming languages, he speaks different languages too, which is kind of cool.
[12:21.420 --> 12:24.000]  Uh, Spanish, French, Russian, Mandarin, Chinese.
[12:24.380 --> 12:25.780]  So that can come in handy, maybe.
[12:26.200 --> 12:35.500]  Uh, he, um, has taught middle school math and programming, continues to work extensively with K-12 schools to promote technology education using 3D printers, robots, drones, coding.
[12:36.080 --> 12:39.420]  And Bryson joins us now on the telephone.
[12:39.600 --> 12:40.600]  Bryson, welcome to Off the Hook.
[12:41.420 --> 12:41.960]  Thanks, Emmanuel.
[12:42.160 --> 12:42.980]  It's a pleasure to be on.
[12:43.180 --> 12:44.540]  Tell us something about this book.
[12:44.680 --> 12:47.020]  What, uh, what, what inspired you to write this?
[12:47.800 --> 12:49.820]  Well, I have two young boys myself.
[12:49.820 --> 12:51.320]  They're five and six now.
[12:51.460 --> 12:58.720]  And a couple of years ago, I noticed they really liked, uh, sitting around the computer while I was grading some of my students' assignments from the university.
[12:58.720 --> 13:08.680]  I always used a lot of, uh, graphics and games, uh, some visual animation, things like that, in my freshman level programming classes to help, uh, people who are taking their first coding class.
[13:08.900 --> 13:12.780]  And my sons would come up with really cool ideas for making the programs better.
[13:13.160 --> 13:16.860]  And I started, uh, collecting some of those programs I'd do with them.
[13:17.420 --> 13:21.320]  And after about six months, I had around 30 programs in a folder.
[13:21.520 --> 13:30.020]  Little short five to ten line apps that drew spirals and turtle graphics, uh, would let you click and interact with the screen and draw a smiley face.
[13:30.460 --> 13:34.860]  And I, uh, I pitched the idea to a good friend of mine who's a book editor.
[13:35.300 --> 13:38.660]  And he said, uh, that it sounded like a good idea.
[13:38.780 --> 13:41.080]  I should find a publisher that does something like that.
[13:41.200 --> 13:44.940]  And no starch was my very first preference, my first choice.
[13:45.120 --> 13:48.360]  And I was lucky that they were, I was their first choice as well.
[13:48.360 --> 13:57.280]  So, uh, well, definitely a good choice, uh, as, as we have known them quite well over the years, uh, have you gotten, um, uh, a decent response so far?
[13:57.960 --> 13:58.780]  Uh, yes.
[13:58.880 --> 14:03.420]  We actually popped up, uh, the very first week of shipping from Amazon.
[14:03.420 --> 14:11.000]  We hit the number one bestseller spot for a while there, and we're still popping around in the top ten children's books in, uh, programming.
[14:11.380 --> 14:12.980]  So it's a pretty exciting start.
[14:12.980 --> 14:25.960]  We were featured in the Wall Street Journal last Monday, uh, Christopher Mims at the journal was kind enough to mention us in an article that he was writing on kids and coding, and that, uh, helped to buoy our first few days of sales.
[14:26.200 --> 14:29.760]  You know, it's, it's really, uh, almost never too young to learn.
[14:29.900 --> 14:37.880]  I, I was, I knew we were going to be discussing your book on the air, so I was thinking to how I learned to program, and I was not much older than your sons.
[14:37.880 --> 14:51.280]  I had a book, uh, a book, obviously, some years ago before Python was popular, probably before it was made, and it had some robots in it, and I thought the robots were cool, and I learned basic, and it really changed my life.
[14:51.400 --> 14:53.660]  Like, this is now what I do professionally these years later.
[14:53.960 --> 15:00.560]  Um, so this is a really, uh, good investment for a child who's interested, and it's a lot of fun, too.
[15:00.660 --> 15:08.140]  So I'm, I'm really excited that your book exists, you know, with some modern programming techniques, but, uh, the same sort of fun stuff.
[15:08.440 --> 15:10.640]  Yeah, I have, I have a similar story to Mike's.
[15:10.780 --> 15:21.060]  Um, the, the thing that got me started was a book for my first computer, um, when I was not much older than your sons, which was the, uh, TRS-80 color computer, um, about a hundred years ago.
[15:21.580 --> 15:35.920]  And the thing that really got me, um, aware of the power of, uh, of what I was doing when I was playing with my computer was this, a book that, uh, existed at the time that was full of programs for kids and, um, not only had the basic programs in there,
[15:36.040 --> 15:41.720]  but explained how all the bits of it worked, uh, what, what parts did what, um, what you could change to do different things.
[15:41.820 --> 15:47.020]  And that's, I think, what set me on this road to, uh, this crazy hacker life that I'm living now.
[15:47.220 --> 15:56.480]  And so learning at that, uh, young age really counted for a lot and really had a lot of, uh, had a lot of, uh, sway on the direction my life took.
[15:56.480 --> 16:09.640]  And it really can't be under, it really can't be overestimated the importance of, um, getting the interest of kids while they're, while they're young and while they're into it and, um, letting them explore their own curiosity and letting them, uh, learn in,
[16:09.640 --> 16:10.560]  in things like programming.
[16:10.740 --> 16:17.540]  I think it's really awesome to make it approachable and accessible too, because, uh, when I, when we, I think we were coming up and I think you guys might agree, it was a little bit harder.
[16:17.740 --> 16:24.640]  I mean, the things you would be reading through or trying to get copies of would be geared towards people that were doing this professionally.
[16:24.640 --> 16:40.040]  And just the, the kind of, uh, tuning it for younger minds, I think, I think we've gotten a lot better about, uh, doing that as a community and, um, that's probably, uh, going to make it that much more approachable for a myriad of people, um, that are,
[16:40.140 --> 16:41.000]  that are coming up now.
[16:41.140 --> 16:48.620]  You see, to me, this is something completely alien because, uh, I didn't have the benefit of computers when I was growing up and I'm not a programmer today.
[16:48.820 --> 17:00.860]  Uh, but I just wonder if, if this had been available to me where there were books and classes and just this kind of support, if I, I might've just developed completely different interests.
[17:01.040 --> 17:15.340]  And I wonder, uh, you know, maybe not in my case, but I wonder how many people who I did grow up with had these skills, like really, um, uh, promising skills, but they were never nurtured because the support just wasn't there.
[17:15.340 --> 17:19.100]  Uh, so, uh, that's, that's something to, uh, to keep in mind.
[17:19.320 --> 17:24.020]  A book like this could really, uh, benefit, uh, a, a, a, a, a blossoming mind.
[17:25.520 --> 17:26.260]  Thanks, Emmanuel.
[17:26.500 --> 17:31.520]  I think coding is all about solving problems and the world needs problem solvers more than ever.
[17:32.160 --> 17:35.700]  Kids who learn how to code don't have to grow up to be, uh, software engineers.
[17:36.100 --> 17:41.460]  They can grow up to be doctors who happen to program a medical robot to do something that's never been done before.
[17:42.000 --> 17:46.820]  Um, it's a really creative outlet, even for kids who are set on going into other fields.
[17:47.260 --> 17:54.880]  And I put this together so that parents could sit down with their kids and, uh, sort of like the Suzuki method of, uh, violin instruction.
[17:55.140 --> 17:59.260]  If you know how that works, the parents just say, stay a little bit ahead of the kids.
[17:59.520 --> 18:11.780]  And that's a challenge with kids these days in computers, but, uh, I've tried to make it approachable so that my, uh, my friends who tested the book out with their kids, they said they were able to stay up enough so they at least understood what their kids were doing.
[18:12.800 --> 18:13.240]  Okay.
[18:13.320 --> 18:24.480]  Just to, uh, recap here, we're speaking with Bryson Payne, the author of Teach Your Kids to Code, uh, which is an awesome book that has just been released, Introduction to a Python Program.
[18:24.540 --> 18:32.460]  If you think your kid isn't, um, isn't ready for Python programming, I think, uh, I think you might have some second thoughts.
[18:32.580 --> 18:33.420]  Is that not right, Bryson?
[18:33.520 --> 18:36.660]  How, how young can kids be these days and, and, and become programmers?
[18:37.220 --> 18:40.680]  Well, really, I started with my sons when they were two and four years old.
[18:41.100 --> 18:41.300]  Oh, two?
[18:41.380 --> 18:41.780]  How?
[18:42.140 --> 18:43.060]  I just enjoyed sitting on my lap.
[18:43.180 --> 18:47.860]  How is a two-year-old, how does a two-year-old program, I'm, I'm, I'm, I mean, I can barely talk.
[18:48.000 --> 18:48.840]  How, how does this work?
[18:49.260 --> 18:53.940]  Well, as soon as Max, my youngest son, was able to find the number keys on the keyboard.
[18:54.260 --> 19:09.540]  Um, he always, he loved shapes, and so he'd say he wanted something with four sides, so I brought a short five-line turtle program, and I would, uh, put a 60-degree angle in there that turns and gives us a nice hexagon shape, and he'd say, I want four sides,
[19:09.680 --> 19:09.900]  Daddy.
[19:10.120 --> 19:12.720]  I'd say, well, type nine, zero here, 90.
[19:13.160 --> 19:28.080]  And so he'd type in 90, and, uh, I think even from two or three years old, uh, the first year or so that I was writing the book, he could, uh, he just, well, first of all, he liked doing something with Daddy, and that's a really nice part of sitting down with your kids in front of the computer.
[19:28.660 --> 19:31.780]  But, uh, he saw that he could make the computer do something.
[19:31.960 --> 19:35.160]  He could type in those numbers, change the shape, change the colors.
[19:35.380 --> 19:42.460]  As soon as he could see his, or read his letters on the keyboard, he could type in B-L-U-E and make the screen blue.
[19:42.780 --> 19:46.420]  Uh, and I started really with short five- to ten-line programs like that.
[19:46.520 --> 19:52.360]  The book begins that way for the first couple of chapters and works up to complete games that kids can produce by the end.
[19:52.480 --> 20:01.980]  We've got a, uh, a tribute to Pong at the end with a smiley face as the bouncing ball, and a, uh, a fun pop-a-smiley game that's like, uh, popping bubble wrap.
[20:02.240 --> 20:05.900]  The kids love just clicking and popping smiley face balloons all over the screen.
[20:06.200 --> 20:07.340]  That is awesome.
[20:07.340 --> 20:07.680]  Wow.
[20:08.000 --> 20:08.240]  Okay.
[20:08.480 --> 20:14.140]  So, uh, just to, to sum it up, 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0 is the phone number to call.
[20:14.300 --> 20:18.100]  If you want a copy of this book, teach your kids to code.
[20:18.240 --> 20:20.980]  Uh, it's a, a guide to Python programming.
[20:21.120 --> 20:26.400]  As you can see, uh, kids of virtually any age are able to, to appreciate this.
[20:26.940 --> 20:39.540]  And I think what's really powerful about this kind of thing, and your book in particular, is that a lot of the technology that, you know, kids love technology, they love using technology, but a lot of the technology that they're using is really, you know,
[20:39.640 --> 20:49.860]  is designed by someone else who decides what it should do, and, uh, you know, the kids have only the control over it that the, the authors of that software intend.
[20:50.780 --> 20:56.580]  The stuff in your book, uh, even if it's simpler, the, the kids can make it do whatever they want.
[20:56.820 --> 21:03.520]  The, the programmer has complete control over the program that's running, and I think it's really powerful to give kids that sort of opportunity.
[21:04.360 --> 21:05.100]  Well, thanks.
[21:05.340 --> 21:07.720]  They're, they're not just consuming, they're creating.
[21:08.020 --> 21:19.000]  When they sit down in front of the keyboard and they see that they can make the computer do something, even if it's just the, the simple app at the beginning that asks them their name and then says hi right back to them.
[21:19.460 --> 21:20.540]  Uh, my son loved that.
[21:20.820 --> 21:25.240]  Uh, my two-year-old would make it say max, max, max, max, max all over the screen.
[21:25.360 --> 21:25.760]  He loved it.
[21:25.880 --> 21:26.960]  Well, I still like doing that.
[21:27.080 --> 21:36.500]  I like, uh, being able to say hi or hello world or whatever, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's the awesomeness of, um, of, of just, um, seeing a computer respond to you.
[21:36.620 --> 21:41.840]  And the first time that happens in your life, whether you're, uh, two or 20, it's magic.
[21:42.040 --> 21:44.520]  And, uh, it's a magic that too many of us lose.
[21:44.660 --> 21:49.420]  And I hope that, uh, your book helps people, uh, helps kids, um, stay connected to that.
[21:49.900 --> 21:54.340]  Um, so anyway, uh, I neglected to mention how, uh, what, what the, uh, pledge level is.
[21:54.420 --> 21:55.100]  Mike, do you have that information?
[21:55.400 --> 21:55.620]  Yeah.
[21:55.700 --> 22:04.900]  So if you give us a call 212-209-2950 and you pledge $55, or you could pledge more, you will get a copy of the book, Teach Your Kids to Code.
[22:05.500 --> 22:07.440]  And, uh, we'll send it to you.
[22:07.580 --> 22:16.720]  You'll be able to sit down with your kids, your friends, kids, your nephews, nieces, whoever you want, and, uh, bring them into this world.
[22:17.100 --> 22:20.640]  And maybe I should mention at this point, the other book in case people want both books.
[22:20.640 --> 22:25.980]  We have a second book that we were offering also for a pledge of $55, uh, called Beautiful Lego.
[22:25.980 --> 22:30.820]  We'll get more into that, uh, a little bit later on in the program, but that is the title of the book, Beautiful Lego.
[22:31.000 --> 22:34.740]  As you know, Legos are very popular with kids and very popular on this show for some reason.
[22:34.940 --> 22:37.220]  Uh, we always get a strong response to that.
[22:37.500 --> 22:43.320]  And so if you want, uh, that book instead for a $55 pledge, 212-209-2950.
[22:43.320 --> 22:45.880]  But if you want both books, how does that work?
[22:46.080 --> 22:56.760]  If you want both books, you call up 212-209-2950 and say, I would like the combination, uh, the combo Beautiful Lego and Teach Your Kids to Code.
[22:56.960 --> 22:58.020]  You pledge $75.
[22:58.400 --> 23:01.140]  Again, you can always pledge more and we will send you both books.
[23:01.480 --> 23:09.100]  And I'm, you know, I'm not a mathematician or a scientist in any level, but I do know that 55 plus 55 does not equal 75.
[23:09.620 --> 23:12.980]  So either we've made a big mistake or we're having a really good deal here.
[23:13.880 --> 23:17.120]  Uh, only our listeners can tell us which.
[23:18.160 --> 23:19.980]  212-209-2950.
[23:20.340 --> 23:26.040]  Uh, yes, please, please just, uh, give us a call and, and show your support and, and do something great for your kids.
[23:26.200 --> 23:33.140]  And of course, with your pledge of any level, uh, you keep us on the air, you let us build out of this temporary studio into our permanent home.
[23:33.540 --> 23:36.200]  And we, we really appreciate any support you can give.
[23:36.320 --> 23:39.940]  And we, and we want to thank again, uh, Bill from No Start who donated these books.
[23:40.580 --> 23:40.740]  Yes.
[23:41.320 --> 23:47.960]  And, uh, uh, Bryson, any, any, um, uh, other thoughts on, on, um, how kids can benefit from technology?
[23:48.920 --> 24:05.640]  Well, you know, uh, I teach at local high schools, middle schools, and elementary schools, and I take in 3D printers and bots and drones and show these kids what's possible with just a little bit of coding, a little bit of problem solving, a little computer science and get them excited about it.
[24:05.960 --> 24:12.020]  Um, I found that kids eight and up can enjoy this book alone, but it is, coding really is a team sport.
[24:12.300 --> 24:16.500]  It's something that, uh, you can do with your kids, your grandkids, uh, great investment.
[24:16.820 --> 24:23.520]  Uh, like you guys mentioned, it's, uh, you can't, uh, you can't give a kid enough problem solving skills in today's world.
[24:24.260 --> 24:25.020]  Um, Emmanuel.
[24:25.580 --> 24:26.420]  Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[24:27.380 --> 24:38.040]  I just want to say that any of our listeners, uh, who, uh, may not be parents or maybe they're grandparents or we probably even have some great-grandparents listening, uh, calling in from time to time.
[24:38.380 --> 24:46.840]  Um, or if you know, uh, friends or neighbors to have a, uh, a young child, um, please call.
[24:46.940 --> 24:51.780]  This is a, this would be a great gift for, uh, for, for anybody that has a kid or knows a kid.
[24:52.020 --> 25:07.520]  Uh, just by calling 212-209-2950, you can get this great book, Teach Your Kids to Code, A Parent-Friendly Guide to Python Programming, which is hot off the press at No Starch Press for, uh, uh, a reasonable pledge of $55 to WBAI.
[25:07.660 --> 25:11.600]  The, the, the main premium you're getting is you're keeping WBAI on the air, which is really important.
[25:11.980 --> 25:18.860]  And, uh, supporters like, uh, Bill Pollack at, at No Starch Press are, uh, are, uh, pretty keen to keeping this, this resource on the air.
[25:19.060 --> 25:24.420]  But, uh, as Mike said, any, any pledge of any amount is, uh, is helpful to keep this station on the air.
[25:24.520 --> 25:33.740]  But if you can, if you can muster $55 or more, you're going to get this great premium gift, hot off the press, Teach Your Kids to Code, by calling 212-209-2950.
[25:34.340 --> 25:50.240]  Now, uh, Bryson, I, I'd, uh, I wanted to ask, if, uh, if you're a parent or, uh, or a family member of a kid who would like to learn how to code, and you would like to go through this book with them, but you yourself are not a coder, um, how, how good is this for the adult in the relationship to also,
[25:50.560 --> 25:52.100]  um, learn through these lessons?
[25:52.820 --> 25:58.180]  Well, I market tested it with some of my friends who are not coders and not computer science professors.
[25:58.360 --> 26:06.020]  And they said that they've been able to follow along those short five to 10 line programs that get the kids started, give adults a chance to pick it up as well.
[26:06.200 --> 26:10.100]  I have to tell you, my father-in-law is 76 years old.
[26:10.340 --> 26:12.820]  He's a retired IBMer, but was never a coder.
[26:12.920 --> 26:16.280]  And he's teaching himself to code in Python using the book.
[26:16.420 --> 26:17.080]  So I was honored.
[26:17.640 --> 26:22.460]  Uh, Bill, I just want to say one other thing, Bill and the no starch press team have been terrific to work with.
[26:22.700 --> 26:24.180]  Um, this is a great cause.
[26:24.320 --> 26:26.580]  I hope some folks will call in and lend their support.
[26:26.800 --> 26:31.160]  And thanks to those people who are calling in 212-209-2950.
[26:31.160 --> 26:38.740]  Again, pledge of $55 gets you a, uh, I've hot off the press, uh, hot off the press book, teach your kids to code.
[26:38.880 --> 26:41.100]  We're speaking with the author right now.
[26:41.240 --> 26:43.800]  Uh, Bryson Payne is, is, is speaking with us.
[26:43.860 --> 26:49.280]  And we also have another book, uh, beautiful Lego, uh, written by Mike Davis.
[26:49.460 --> 26:50.140]  We'll get into that.
[26:50.260 --> 26:51.000]  I'm sorry, Mike Doyle.
[26:51.160 --> 26:52.540]  I will get into that in just a little bit.
[26:52.840 --> 26:59.260]  Uh, and, uh, that's also for a pledge of $55, or you can get both books for a pledge of 75, which is an awesome deal.
[26:59.720 --> 27:01.800]  212-209-2950.
[27:01.800 --> 27:03.800]  We don't have a ton of these.
[27:04.100 --> 27:06.580]  So, uh, it's first come first serve, obviously.
[27:06.840 --> 27:22.380]  Uh, but it's really, really, um, something I think that would, that would be a milestone in, uh, in, in your kids upbringing, uh, to, to share these books, to, um, uh, to embark on this, uh, this journey, uh, down, down the road of technology.
[27:22.620 --> 27:24.740]  It's, uh, it, it, it's really pretty magical.
[27:26.000 --> 27:27.400]  I mean, sorry.
[27:28.580 --> 27:29.200]  You okay there?
[27:29.600 --> 27:34.920]  Yeah, I can't talk, but, uh, I do want to say that the magic... Hang on, I'm going to turn the mic, give a good cough, and I do that.
[27:35.540 --> 27:36.300]  Okay, there we go.
[27:36.400 --> 27:36.600]  Go ahead.
[27:36.700 --> 27:42.980]  So for me, the magic in the, in programming that we were talking about, that the kids see when they make the computer do what they want, uh, for me, it hasn't gone away.
[27:43.060 --> 27:44.000]  This is what I do every day.
[27:44.120 --> 27:54.600]  I get to make software that people get to use, uh, you know, uh, hundreds of thousands or millions of people use, uh, the stuff that I make and can be distributed, you know, through the internet.
[27:54.780 --> 28:07.880]  And, and not every kid who reads your book is going to become a professional programmer, but I think every kid who reads your book is going to benefit from the problem-solving skills they get and the experience of being able to express their creativity and control the world around them.
[28:08.080 --> 28:10.680]  I think that goes for almost anyone.
[28:12.140 --> 28:12.880]  I agree.
[28:12.880 --> 28:13.680]  I appreciate that.
[28:13.760 --> 28:17.940]  I've got a good friend whose 10-year-old knows already that she wants to be a neurosurgeon.
[28:18.140 --> 28:21.920]  She wants to be a brain surgeon, but, uh, she's also really creative.
[28:22.440 --> 28:27.580]  And, uh, so she's picking up coding just so that she can have a way to express some of that creativity.
[28:27.840 --> 28:35.320]  And who knows, she may program that medical robot that's operating on us in another 20 years to do something life-saving that didn't exist before.
[28:35.320 --> 28:41.780]  Now, do you find, uh, that, uh, there are more girls getting involved in, uh, in programming and computers?
[28:42.380 --> 28:45.560]  Well, that's really one of the reasons I tried to aim this book younger.
[28:45.860 --> 28:57.000]  Uh, there's a, a large body of research out there that says by middle school, a majority of children have decided that they don't want to go into a hard science field, a STEM field, science, technology, engineering, and mathematics.
[28:57.380 --> 29:01.180]  And disproportionately, girls by middle school have made that decision.
[29:01.460 --> 29:08.200]  And that's so unfortunate because we've got some great capable problem solvers in our elementary schools, our middle schools, our high schools.
[29:08.480 --> 29:22.300]  And so I've, uh, written this book to try to get, uh, parents a chance to give kids a chance to engage with computers, see that they can do something cool, useful, fun, visual, um, and do it at a younger age.
[29:22.500 --> 29:34.400]  Maybe, uh, if we get this technology in the hands of some eight-year-olds, ten-year-olds, by the time they get to middle school, they're going to love technology so much that they might consider a science field or medical or technology engineering.
[29:34.760 --> 29:46.780]  That's, that's a lot of, uh, a lot of influence, a lot of power that we have as, as people writing books, people, uh, uh, spreading the virtues, virtues of, of, of, of high tech.
[29:47.240 --> 29:49.040]  Um, it's changing society.
[29:49.040 --> 29:53.060]  It's changing those barriers that, uh, we've become so used to.
[29:53.220 --> 30:00.320]  Uh, so that, that's something to consider when, when you read something like this, when you get involved in, in, in this kind of, uh, field.
[30:00.540 --> 30:14.680]  I think it's also really powerful in the, in that it's an, it's sort of the antithesis, antithesis of, uh, of the concept that, you know, whatever device or whatever system you're buying is just fixed and it is the way it is once you've purchased it.
[30:15.220 --> 30:26.060]  Uh, I think a lot of young people are exposed more and more to technology that's programmable, but they don't understand that it could be reprogrammed and they could take hold or take ownership or design the system, redesign it.
[30:26.640 --> 30:31.460]  Um, you know, flashing firmware, these things are, uh, are accessible to all of us.
[30:31.660 --> 30:48.280]  Um, but it's, it's, uh, it's dangerous if, uh, the younger generations aren't getting sort of turned on to the, the technical side of what makes that tick, how that, how that actually occurs and that they can, um, they can apply what, you know, knowledge,
[30:48.460 --> 30:57.260]  new knowledge of it to, to their own lives and to devices that ordinarily they just see as a fixed, uh, sort of garden where they can't change things about it.
[30:57.400 --> 31:12.240]  And that, that's, uh, encouraging to me because I, I, it's terrifying to think that, uh, people will just blindly accept the way things are configured or designed, uh, when they aren't that way and in the, at the fundamental level with, with integrated circuits.
[31:12.840 --> 31:13.320]  Absolutely.
[31:13.500 --> 31:13.500]  Absolutely.
[31:13.860 --> 31:16.480]  It's, uh... Go ahead.
[31:16.620 --> 31:16.800]  Go ahead.
[31:17.240 --> 31:17.720]  Oh, okay.
[31:17.800 --> 31:23.720]  Well, I was just going to say one of the reasons I chose Python is because it's free, uh, open source software.
[31:23.940 --> 31:35.620]  Anybody can download it on a Windows machine, a Mac, a Linux, an Arduino, Raspberry Pi, you know, a $25 credit card sized computer, and you can run software from this book on it.
[31:35.940 --> 31:39.820]  It's a, it's a fun language and it's really accessible for kids, parents alike.
[31:40.160 --> 31:40.520]  Yeah.
[31:40.680 --> 31:43.640]  And going back to what Kai was saying, it's, that's absolutely where the power is.
[31:43.800 --> 31:47.980]  It's, uh, it was for me in, in my, uh, experience with the TRS-80 and that book.
[31:48.380 --> 31:54.860]  Um, because as a kid, uh, in the early eighties, I did have experience of, okay, there are arcade games, there are video games out there.
[31:55.220 --> 31:57.800]  Um, these are computers, uh, this is how this works.
[31:57.940 --> 32:00.180]  And, but that, that was just, uh, passively using.
[32:00.700 --> 32:09.320]  And, uh, when I got hold of the basic book and when I, uh, when I explored what it had to offer and when I started learning, it was, it was not just about playing someone else's games.
[32:09.480 --> 32:12.120]  It was about actively using rather than consuming.
[32:12.300 --> 32:14.880]  It was about being able to change the games in ways I wanted.
[32:14.880 --> 32:16.660]  It was about being able to make my own games.
[32:17.100 --> 32:19.620]  And, uh, that was really a massive eye opener.
[32:19.720 --> 32:25.100]  I can't, I can't even, I cannot overstate how huge this was for me as, as a, as a young kid.
[32:25.260 --> 32:30.280]  And it's something that is vital, I think, to, uh, encourage in any kid who expresses curiosity.
[32:30.880 --> 32:33.360]  It's, uh, you, you, uh, you teach them to explore.
[32:33.460 --> 32:37.180]  You teach them to reward their explorations with, uh, gaining new abilities.
[32:37.400 --> 32:46.680]  You teach them to open their eyes and, uh, and experience, um, what, uh, what is handed to us in this world in ways that, uh, that they get to decide what to do with it.
[32:46.800 --> 32:49.000]  And it's, uh, that's, that's where the power is.
[32:49.080 --> 33:00.020]  And I, I, I think things like, uh, things like this book, uh, Teach Your Kids to Code, are absolutely vital for any kid, uh, to encourage them in whatever ways their, their curiosity, uh, um, leads them.
[33:06.880 --> 33:08.040]  And, uh, change enough.
[33:08.220 --> 33:14.920]  It was a Commodore 64 bowling game and I, uh, rigged it so that I could score 320 in every game.
[33:15.700 --> 33:20.840]  I didn't know enough to know that you couldn't score 320 in a bowling match, but it was, it was a lot of fun.
[33:20.840 --> 33:22.920]  I just, I didn't know how to program the whole game.
[33:23.020 --> 33:27.080]  I typed it in from an issue of Run Magazine and I just tried new things.
[33:27.260 --> 33:29.980]  And, um, I've tried to, to build this book the same way.
[33:30.120 --> 33:34.360]  I provide a good structure, some fun programs that already do something visual.
[33:34.800 --> 33:43.080]  But, uh, the whole idea is to explore, to try new things, uh, hopefully together with, uh, a young person or an older person in your life.
[33:43.240 --> 33:48.740]  Um, just a chance to, to bend and, well, we usually won't break the computer.
[33:48.880 --> 33:52.340]  We just try a program and if it doesn't work, we go back to what was typed in before.
[33:52.620 --> 33:58.080]  But it's just a way to explore and try new things and, uh, learn that you can do something really cool with technology.
[33:58.460 --> 34:02.700]  I mean, another cool thing about Python that you use in the book is that it itself is open source.
[34:03.060 --> 34:10.020]  So you can get the program that makes Python and it is, a lot of it is itself written in Python.
[34:10.380 --> 34:23.100]  And, uh, I remember seeing a talk once by a fairly, someone fairly new to programming, uh, not a six year old, but an adult who had fairly recently started learning programming and was able to modify Python to add a new keyword.
[34:23.300 --> 34:24.780]  And, and I wish I could remember what it was.
[34:24.880 --> 34:29.180]  It was something from Harry Potter, uh, to have her own version of Python.
[34:29.840 --> 34:40.300]  So it, it, and, and the same delight in, in, you know, modifying the bowling alley or modifying Python itself or modifying, you know, any software was there, uh, in, in her talk.
[34:40.440 --> 34:42.600]  And it's, it's really, uh, amazing stuff.
[34:43.740 --> 34:47.160]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[34:47.400 --> 34:52.240]  Please give a call, make a pledge, get the book, teach your kids to code.
[34:52.440 --> 34:59.020]  You won't only be getting a book, you'll be changing your kid's life or your kid's friends' lives or your life.
[34:59.380 --> 35:01.000]  It's an amazing step.
[35:01.160 --> 35:13.740]  It's, it's something that, um, uh, that I, I think everybody should, uh, uh, should attempt to, uh, to reach young people and to get them to, uh, take an interest in this sort of a thing.
[35:14.020 --> 35:16.220]  Your kids are probably already interested in this.
[35:16.420 --> 35:22.920]  Uh, this book could really, um, uh, open some doors because, you know, kids just don't go out to bookstores and buy books.
[35:23.040 --> 35:24.740]  It's, you know, we take it for granted.
[35:24.980 --> 35:28.840]  This is something that, um, that, that could be a pivotal gift.
[35:29.220 --> 35:41.460]  212-209-2950, pledge of $55, get you the book, teach your kids to code, uh, a pledge of $75 gets you that and the beautiful Lego book, which we're also offering, which we'll get to in just a moment or so.
[35:41.700 --> 35:44.460]  Uh, but the, we need to see some phone calls come in.
[35:44.540 --> 35:47.080]  Remember, this is a donation from NoStoragePress.
[35:47.400 --> 35:50.040]  Uh, it's all to keep this radio station going.
[35:50.160 --> 35:52.100]  We've been through a lot over the last few years.
[35:52.240 --> 35:55.080]  We are in our new home and we want to stay in our new home.
[35:55.200 --> 35:57.360]  We want to build it up and, and make it even better.
[35:57.620 --> 35:58.920]  And that all happens.
[35:59.100 --> 36:02.920]  Everything up until this point has happened through your pledges.
[36:03.480 --> 36:06.060]  212-209-2950.
[36:06.380 --> 36:15.300]  Even if there's something else you'd want to pledge for it, please call now and, and, uh, and say you're calling to support off the hook because we talk about these kinds of things.
[36:15.400 --> 36:16.420]  We talk about these issues.
[36:16.580 --> 36:26.060]  We talk about technology and young people and, and, uh, the law and privacy and surveillance and all sorts of things like that, that nobody else talks about.
[36:26.240 --> 36:29.860]  So it's vital, absolutely vital that we hear from you.
[36:29.860 --> 36:32.500]  212-209-2950.
[36:32.500 --> 36:42.680]  I want to see the, I want to see these, uh, these pledges come pouring in because it's, this is, this is really, really good material that, um, that is being donated here.
[36:42.860 --> 36:50.320]  Uh, and there is no better investment than our kids and investing in them and investing in WBAI at the same time.
[36:50.460 --> 36:52.180]  That's, that's win-win, I think.
[36:52.180 --> 36:59.020]  Uh, I just wanted to bring up the other, uh, uh, method of, of donating is give to WBAI.org.
[36:59.340 --> 37:03.520]  That's give the numeral to WBAI.org.
[37:03.780 --> 37:12.660]  So if you, uh, if you can't make a phone call right now or maybe later you want to set something up, open up a tab, go to that site and see if you can't, uh, donate that way as well.
[37:12.840 --> 37:14.120]  If it's easier, more convenient.
[37:14.320 --> 37:14.440]  Yeah.
[37:14.560 --> 37:19.300]  If you're all means, if you're listening to this show later and you're banging your head against the wall because you missed the, the live broadcast.
[37:19.480 --> 37:19.640]  Okay.
[37:19.740 --> 37:19.860]  Yeah.
[37:19.900 --> 37:21.060]  You can donate that way as well.
[37:21.220 --> 37:26.580]  You can give credit to off the hook and that always helps as well because we like to know how many people are out there.
[37:26.680 --> 37:28.800]  We like to know what kind of level of support we have.
[37:28.980 --> 37:34.540]  Uh, but if you're listening live now, whether it's on the internet or whether it's over the air, we need you to call.
[37:34.700 --> 37:36.280]  We have not done this in a while.
[37:36.280 --> 37:45.940]  I know, uh, it feels like we, we are asking for money an awful lot, but to be honest, we have not had a full-fledged pledge drive involving off the hook since last autumn.
[37:46.520 --> 37:47.740]  So it's now spring.
[37:48.000 --> 37:48.980]  It's now 2015.
[37:49.040 --> 37:50.400]  We are in a new place.
[37:50.660 --> 37:54.560]  Uh, it's, it's not, um, it's not a lot of, uh, smoke and mirrors.
[37:54.700 --> 37:55.820]  We're actually doing things.
[37:55.980 --> 38:03.280]  We're actually moving, progressing, growing, but we need your help to do that because we don't have commercials.
[38:03.280 --> 38:04.620]  We don't have sponsors.
[38:04.880 --> 38:09.820]  We have investors, investors like you, all of our listeners are investors of one sort or another.
[38:09.960 --> 38:11.720]  And we respond to those investors.
[38:11.920 --> 38:13.600]  We, we put them on the air.
[38:13.780 --> 38:15.040]  We answer their mail.
[38:15.040 --> 38:16.760]  We listen to their concerns.
[38:17.280 --> 38:26.640]  And, uh, we had trouble with premiums last year and we went nuts tracking them down, figuring it out and solving it because we care.
[38:26.820 --> 38:30.640]  And that's the same as, as, as the people here at the radio station who work here every day.
[38:30.860 --> 38:32.880]  Uh, our listeners are priceless to us.
[38:32.940 --> 38:46.000]  So please show that support so that we can continue being the most, um, um, consistent radio station here in New York, the station that doesn't change formats every couple of weeks with a slight change in the Arbitron ratings.
[38:46.260 --> 38:59.480]  We believe in the things we talk about and whether it's technology, whether it's social issues, uh, whether it's music, you get so much at 99.5 FM WBAI 212-209-2950.
[38:59.600 --> 39:03.800]  $55 gets you either book, teach your kids to code or beautiful Lego.
[39:04.320 --> 39:07.880]  $75 gets you both books, which is an awesome deal.
[39:09.280 --> 39:12.220]  212-209-2950.
[39:12.860 --> 39:17.160]  We're on the phone with, uh, with Bryson Payne, who, uh, I believe you're in, in Georgia.
[39:17.340 --> 39:17.720]  Is that correct?
[39:18.400 --> 39:18.920]  That's correct.
[39:19.080 --> 39:20.460]  Just about an hour north of Atlanta.
[39:20.700 --> 39:26.920]  Well, I want to thank you for, uh, for writing this, for, um, for reaching out and, uh, inspiring young minds.
[39:27.260 --> 39:31.400]  One question, uh, have, has the subject of hacking come up at all with kids?
[39:32.460 --> 39:37.880]  Well, I do get a lot of good questions from, uh, the, especially the middle school students that I work with.
[39:38.020 --> 39:44.540]  You know, they're interested in, uh, I, I do a little session with, uh, the middle schoolers down in, uh, a nearby county.
[39:44.940 --> 39:48.120]  We, uh, just go out to the command line on a Windows machine.
[39:48.260 --> 39:50.960]  That's all they have available in the, uh, the media center there.
[39:51.480 --> 39:54.080]  And, uh, we just go out and do a ping.
[39:54.320 --> 39:56.000]  We go out and do a trace route.
[39:56.160 --> 39:58.420]  You know, we do just a little bit of networking.
[39:58.940 --> 40:02.660]  Um, but I, I think that's a, a cool area for exploration as well.
[40:02.740 --> 40:10.620]  We could, uh, influence these kids to do some ethical hacking to, uh, you know, do some of the good things out there that, uh, well, we need to do.
[40:10.780 --> 40:13.720]  And build their own, uh, security labs and networks.
[40:13.880 --> 40:15.080]  That's, that's cool stuff.
[40:15.280 --> 40:18.480]  Well, yeah, you must encounter an awful lot of mischief as well.
[40:18.720 --> 40:19.940]  And any stories you can tell us?
[40:20.820 --> 40:23.180]  Uh, no, our kids are pretty good here.
[40:23.320 --> 40:31.220]  We're, uh, we're partially a military institution where, uh, we have a large ROTC program and, uh, we do train some folks for cybersecurity, of course.
[40:31.720 --> 40:38.320]  Uh, and I think that hopefully keeps people thinking for the future so that they don't get into too much trouble while they're here.
[40:38.560 --> 40:38.740]  Uh-huh.
[40:38.840 --> 40:39.740]  But, uh, enough trouble.
[40:39.880 --> 40:40.980]  I mean, you know, kids are kids.
[40:41.180 --> 40:49.880]  And, you know, it's, it's my view that, you know, if, if, uh, if, if, if children experiment and try things and, and something breaks as a result, they learn from that.
[40:50.060 --> 40:58.400]  And, um, and, and computers are a perfect way to experiment with, with software, with hardware, just to see, okay, what happens if I do this?
[40:58.500 --> 41:02.520]  And then once they learn that, well, they don't do that again, but they'll try something else.
[41:02.620 --> 41:03.940]  Maybe they'll design something else.
[41:04.460 --> 41:05.120]  That's right.
[41:05.120 --> 41:07.200]  We've got the long summer break coming up.
[41:07.500 --> 41:15.700]  Um, this hopefully will give folks a chance to do something positive with that time, something productive, uh, put those problem solving skills to good work.
[41:16.200 --> 41:17.060]  All right, Bryson.
[41:17.140 --> 41:19.800]  Hey, I want to thank you so much for all the work you've done.
[41:19.900 --> 41:21.660]  Any other projects that you're involved in?
[41:23.300 --> 41:32.360]  Just, uh, traveling around doing some more teaching, uh, things in our, uh, local K-12 institutions and, um, trying to keep getting kids interested in coding.
[41:32.940 --> 41:33.340]  Okay.
[41:33.400 --> 41:34.480]  Well, much success with that.
[41:34.480 --> 41:38.180]  And I, I hope that, uh, more people are inspired to do the kinds of things that you do.
[41:38.380 --> 41:44.900]  And I hope the book, uh, leads to more books and, and all sorts of, uh, uh, kids getting enthused by this.
[41:45.620 --> 41:46.100]  Thank you, man.
[41:46.540 --> 41:47.040]  Good luck tonight.
[41:47.200 --> 41:47.600]  Yes, Bryson.
[41:47.620 --> 41:49.460]  Bryson, don't, don't hang up the phone, Bryson.
[41:49.760 --> 41:50.740]  That's the only way I'm on.
[41:51.180 --> 41:56.280]  Yeah, this is Bernie's ticket to the, uh, to the radio is your phone line because, uh, we only have one phone line.
[41:56.380 --> 41:57.260]  So that's, that's how we do it.
[41:57.840 --> 42:02.060]  I want to thank the people who are calling in 212-209-2950.
[42:02.380 --> 42:09.100]  And, uh, Bryson, since we are using your phone line, if you want to, uh, speak up on anything we say in the next 20 minutes or so, feel free to do that.
[42:09.200 --> 42:11.980]  Uh, so that we got totally taking advantage of you.
[42:12.200 --> 42:18.020]  Uh, but we have the other book and, uh, well, uh, Bryson, would you like to, uh, describe what this book is all about?
[42:19.140 --> 42:19.540]  Yeah.
[42:19.820 --> 42:24.080]  Um, I was speaking with Anna, uh, a marketing person at, uh, No Starch Press.
[42:24.400 --> 42:28.200]  And I said, hey, we're going to have a kid-themed fundraising program tonight.
[42:28.780 --> 42:31.200]  Uh, is there a, kids love Legos.
[42:31.320 --> 42:32.180]  Adults like Legos.
[42:32.300 --> 42:36.300]  Legos are just a really cool, uh, uh, creative, uh, tool.
[42:36.600 --> 42:48.920]  And, uh, I asked Anna, can you think of a Lego book, which has always been popular as a premium on this, on the show, that, uh, would go particularly well with, um, with Bryson Payne's book, Teach Your Kids to Code.
[42:49.100 --> 42:53.060]  And she's, and she said, the best book for that is something called Beautiful Lego.
[42:53.340 --> 43:12.080]  It's a, uh, compendium of Lego artwork that showcases a, a stunning array of, of, of sculpture pieces ranging from, uh, lifelike replicas of everyday objects and famous monuments to imaginative renderings of spaceships, mansions, mythical creatures.
[43:12.420 --> 43:26.220]  Um, the, the description of the book goes on here that you'll, uh, you'll meet the minds behind the art, uh, interviews with the artists take you inside the creative process that turns simple, basic Lego bricks into remarkable masterpieces.
[43:26.860 --> 43:31.400]  Um, this was written by internationally acclaimed Lego artist, Mike Doyle.
[43:31.540 --> 43:34.860]  He's known for his stunningly realistic grand scale designs.
[43:35.580 --> 43:45.500]  Uh, uh, something called Contact, which is a majestic fantasy cityscape featured on the book's cover, uses more than 200,000 Lego bricks.
[43:45.660 --> 43:47.600]  That's one-fifth of a million bricks.
[43:47.840 --> 43:55.460]  And his award-winning, uh, Abounded House series, uh, has been showcased at, uh, Gallery 1988 in L.A.
[43:55.540 --> 43:58.320]  and, uh, now has a home in Boston's Museum of Realistic Art.
[43:58.580 --> 44:05.020]  Uh, when he's not, uh, constructing unique Lego art, um, uh, Mike Doyle, uh, works as a graphic designer.
[44:05.180 --> 44:06.980]  He lives with his wife and two kids in New Jersey.
[44:07.160 --> 44:14.940]  He couldn't be on the show tonight, but this, this book, Beautiful Lego, is, is the first book in a three-book series, uh, by Mike Doyle at No Starts Press.
[44:15.420 --> 44:17.600]  Um, the other one's called Beautiful Lego 2.
[44:17.960 --> 44:23.920]  And the forthcoming Beautiful Lego 3, uh, Wild, is due out, uh, in September of this year.
[44:24.080 --> 44:25.640]  So, uh, this is really amazing.
[44:25.780 --> 44:28.480]  This is like a coffee table art book of Lego stuff.
[44:28.660 --> 44:29.380]  But kids would love it.
[44:29.460 --> 44:30.280]  Adults would love it.
[44:30.380 --> 44:30.740]  Love it.
[44:30.940 --> 44:31.600]  It's art.
[44:31.780 --> 44:32.320]  It's technology.
[44:32.820 --> 44:33.480]  It's Lego.
[44:33.960 --> 44:37.600]  So, if you're interested in this book, uh, call 212-209-2950.
[44:38.100 --> 44:41.120]  You, for a pledge of $55 or more, you can get that book as well.
[44:41.240 --> 44:45.760]  Or the Teach Your Kids to Code book, or both of them combined, for a pledge of $75.
[44:46.360 --> 44:48.720]  Uh, 212-209-2950.
[44:49.160 --> 44:51.400]  And again, I want to thank the people who are calling in.
[44:51.740 --> 44:54.420]  And, uh, please, uh, keep those calls coming in.
[44:54.520 --> 44:56.660]  212-209-2950.
[44:57.160 --> 44:59.760]  Remember, your support is what keeps us on the radio.
[44:59.920 --> 45:07.280]  And this is our way of saying thanks by sending you, uh, one or two really interesting books, depending on, on what you choose.
[45:07.520 --> 45:13.700]  Uh, and these are, these are the kinds of things that we like to sit around and read ourselves because they're just, yeah, uh, Bernie's right.
[45:13.820 --> 45:14.800]  There's something about Legos.
[45:14.960 --> 45:22.220]  What, can you guys in the studio maybe describe better why Legos are so appealing to hackers, young and old?
[45:23.080 --> 45:27.360]  I mean, I think for a lot of people, it's the same stuff we were talking about with learning to program.
[45:27.800 --> 45:35.360]  It gives you the ability to, you know, using some pre-built tools so you don't have to start from, you know, petroleum and make your own plastic and all that stuff.
[45:35.420 --> 45:39.000]  But you can really, you know, create whatever you want out of them.
[45:39.080 --> 45:40.060]  And I think that's really cool.
[45:40.440 --> 45:47.560]  Yeah, and we've seen some, especially overseas, we've seen some really impressive displays at some hacker conferences.
[45:47.980 --> 45:55.260]  Uh, it's something that I know we've always wanted to do at Hope, that we haven't, we've done it, but we haven't done it as, as big as, as I think we want to do it.
[45:55.400 --> 46:04.040]  And, and for that, I guess we really need some, some kids to read the book, you know, and, and, and get some programming skills and just realize, hey, I can do anything.
[46:04.560 --> 46:08.300]  And, uh, they just come out and do because the support network is here, you know?
[46:08.540 --> 46:13.900]  And maybe, uh, have their folks send in some pointers as far as, uh, how to get the bricks to, to hope.
[46:14.140 --> 46:20.340]  But, uh, Lego itself, uh, does have a programming element, uh, with some of their other kits.
[46:20.480 --> 46:23.360]  Like they have a pretty good robotics platforms, I think.
[46:23.540 --> 46:28.340]  And I think just over the weekend, we were talking to someone who had a daughter that was really interested in that.
[46:28.460 --> 46:39.680]  And that was kind of, uh, exclaiming that, yeah, definitely Legos are, are, um, are big with kids as far as being flexible and being able to build whatever your imagination can come up with.
[46:39.680 --> 46:39.680]  Yeah.
[46:39.900 --> 46:46.640]  It's just good to see that being expressed by kids today that, yeah, I can do this and I'm going to do this.
[46:46.760 --> 46:50.780]  And I, I, I'm just going to keep building and experimenting and trying new things.
[46:50.900 --> 46:58.800]  And sometimes the adults are the ones that don't quite get it, but that's, that's fine because, uh, what they're doing is amazing and it's inspirational to us as well.
[46:58.940 --> 47:00.760]  It's what, it's what the hacker world is really all about.
[47:01.100 --> 47:01.380]  Yeah.
[47:01.460 --> 47:15.620]  I remember at the open leaks tent, a chaos camp a couple of years ago that the, one of the kids had made, uh, a cash register for their bar or whatever they were doing, they're selling drinks and stuff, but it was really ingenious.
[47:15.800 --> 47:18.340]  This whole, like, uh, till was created.
[47:18.420 --> 47:19.680]  It was all made out of Legos.
[47:19.820 --> 47:27.020]  So people that were buying a drink or whatnot and, and, uh, and having fun there were basically putting their money into this Lego cash register.
[47:27.160 --> 47:27.940]  It was really hilarious.
[47:27.940 --> 47:30.820]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[47:31.040 --> 47:34.860]  We only have a few minutes left, but we're offering the beautiful Lego book.
[47:34.980 --> 47:37.060]  We're offering the teacher kids to code book.
[47:37.220 --> 47:43.360]  We're offering some very interesting things on this, uh, Wednesday evening, our first show from our new Brooklyn studios.
[47:43.740 --> 47:55.780]  Please be a part of history and pledge now, show your support for the future of WBAI, for the future of kids, uh, and, uh, and for the future of, of computing and hacking and all sorts of cool things like that.
[47:55.900 --> 47:57.920]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[47:57.940 --> 47:58.400]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[47:58.560 --> 48:03.920]  You get the beautiful Lego book or the teach your kids to code book for a pledge of 70, of, uh, $55.
[48:04.480 --> 48:06.460]  You'll get both for a pledge of $75.
[48:06.740 --> 48:09.680]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[48:10.000 --> 48:15.340]  I see more people are calling in and that's really, really good to see because that tells me that people care.
[48:15.520 --> 48:16.700]  We're going to be here for a while.
[48:16.900 --> 48:21.240]  Uh, we're going to have all kinds of kids reading and, and programming and experimenting.
[48:21.640 --> 48:27.740]  And that's, that's a world in a, in a good shape, I think, when, when, when people are, are, are doing all of that.
[48:28.300 --> 48:31.940]  Uh, let me just, uh, say some words about the author of, uh, beautiful Lego.
[48:32.280 --> 48:37.180]  Uh, he, um, Mike Doyle is known for his stunningly realistic grand scale designs.
[48:37.880 --> 48:42.560]  Uh, Contact, a magic, uh, majestic, uh, fantasy cityscape featured on his book's cover.
[48:42.980 --> 48:45.020]  Uses more than 200,000 bricks.
[48:45.300 --> 48:46.040]  Did we say this already?
[48:46.220 --> 48:46.960]  Yeah, Bernie mentioned that.
[48:47.020 --> 48:47.640]  Okay, I'm sorry.
[48:47.780 --> 48:48.600]  I'm reading the same thing.
[48:48.880 --> 48:54.460]  But, uh, wow, this is, it's, it's just unbelievable that, uh, uh, this kind of thing happens.
[48:54.940 --> 48:56.580]  Where were Legos when we were growing up?
[48:56.700 --> 48:58.220]  Did they, I know they existed.
[48:58.560 --> 48:59.440]  I had Legos.
[48:59.660 --> 49:01.560]  Did you have Legos, Bernie?
[49:02.740 --> 49:05.700]  Um, I actually, uh, predated Legos.
[49:05.800 --> 49:09.040]  I had something called Tinker Toys, which were like, uh, wooden dowels.
[49:09.060 --> 49:10.100]  I had Tinker Toys.
[49:10.200 --> 49:11.140]  I had Lincoln Logs.
[49:11.140 --> 49:11.820]  They were pretty cool.
[49:11.960 --> 49:12.220]  Yeah.
[49:12.680 --> 49:13.280]  It was, it was awesome.
[49:13.480 --> 49:14.960]  It's the same, same kind of thing, though.
[49:15.040 --> 49:15.560]  They weren't bricks.
[49:15.700 --> 49:16.220]  There were other things.
[49:16.360 --> 49:28.620]  But, uh, this, this book, uh, beautiful Lego, you, when you look at some of these stunning photos in this coffee table type art book, um, these are sculptures that you wouldn't even necessarily recognize as being constructed with Legos at first glance,
[49:28.620 --> 49:36.360]  because there could be tens or hundreds of thousands of Lego bricks in just one of these sculptures of amazing colors and, and textures.
[49:36.780 --> 49:44.240]  It's amazing what, what, what an artist who has access to hundreds of thousands of different colored Lego bricks can, can create.
[49:44.360 --> 49:46.720]  It's really inspiring to see this.
[49:46.820 --> 49:55.020]  And I, I kind of think this fits in well with the whole hacking theme, because I look at each Lego book as, is like a bite, like a, like a, a character in programming.
[49:55.220 --> 50:04.920]  And you put them together to create, to create something, whether it's a three-dimensional object, a Lego sculpture, or whether you're, you're creating code, as in writing, writing software.
[50:05.260 --> 50:20.080]  It's all the same kind of mental process that, uh, I think we should try to get, uh, people as young as possible interested in from the, from the outset to keep them on a creative passive consumer of technology or three-dimensional objects.
[50:20.320 --> 50:27.440]  They can understand how to make their own things or have modified them and be part of a creative processes of just being a, a passive consumer.
[50:27.600 --> 50:28.780]  That's what we're about on BAI.
[50:28.960 --> 50:29.260]  Yeah.
[50:29.360 --> 50:31.700]  And I think that's something that has changed over the years.
[50:31.880 --> 50:42.800]  Uh, obviously we still have a lot of passive consumers around, but I think there's, there's a lot more support for, uh, people breaking out on their own, being creative and, and, and just expressing themselves in their own way.
[50:42.960 --> 50:45.680]  And yeah, that's something that, uh, the Tinker Toys were nice.
[50:45.820 --> 50:46.660]  The Lincoln Logs were okay.
[50:46.800 --> 50:50.380]  I had an director set at one point, but, uh, wasn't quite as good as this.
[50:50.600 --> 51:09.980]  So it's a healthy time, healthy time to be, uh, a child hacker and, uh, and, uh, you know, appreciating Legos, appreciating programming, uh, being supported by having somebody close to you, give you a book of this nature, or, you know, adults can read these things too and appreciate them and get inspired as well.
[51:10.420 --> 51:13.080]  That is the magic that we are sharing today.
[51:13.280 --> 51:15.300]  212-209-2950.
[51:15.320 --> 51:20.120]  We, in our last few minutes, please call and pledge for one or both of those books.
[51:20.240 --> 51:23.820]  One book for $55, both books for $75.
[51:24.420 --> 51:29.960]  Now, Emmanuel, I know you've been giving me dirty looks for, uh, using my computer while we're on the air, but, uh, I just wanted to show you what I've been doing.
[51:30.160 --> 51:34.540]  I actually, uh, pledged for Teach Your Kids to Code just now because I would like a copy of that book.
[51:34.880 --> 51:43.540]  And I have a nephew, uh, the appropriate age, and I am going to start him on, uh, on this madcap path because I think, uh, I think it's worth it.
[51:43.620 --> 51:45.220]  And I think it's worth supporting the station.
[51:45.720 --> 51:48.460]  And, uh, I, I am looking forward to getting hold of this.
[51:48.580 --> 51:55.140]  Well, I don't know what impresses me more, the fact that you would do something like that or the, the technical ability that you were able to do that and talk on the radio at the same time.
[51:55.380 --> 51:56.320]  Uh, but thank you.
[51:56.420 --> 51:57.280]  Thank you for that pledge.
[51:57.400 --> 51:59.440]  And thank you, everybody else who's calling in as well.
[51:59.580 --> 52:01.540]  And, uh, I'm looking at the other people in the room too.
[52:01.660 --> 52:03.100]  You can do what Rob did as well.
[52:03.220 --> 52:05.260]  212-209-2950.
[52:05.440 --> 52:06.540]  Actually, you did it online though.
[52:06.540 --> 52:06.760]  Yes.
[52:06.800 --> 52:18.420]  I went to give the numeral to WBAI.org and I put it all through myself, made sure to write in the, uh, order, uh, description box to apply the, uh, apply the donation to off the hook because it's the greatest show.
[52:18.460 --> 52:29.060]  So if you don't feel like talking on the phone or if you have a frog in your throat or whatever, you know, go online, give to numeral to WBAI.org and you can, uh, you can do it that way.
[52:29.540 --> 52:32.340]  Uh, 212-209-2950 is our phone number though.
[52:32.600 --> 52:40.000]  So, um, if you want to call up and pledge for either the Lego book or the teach your kids to code book or both books, that is how you do it.
[52:40.120 --> 52:41.760]  212-209-2950.
[52:41.760 --> 52:45.820]  And we take all kinds of credit cards and, and other wonderful magical things like that.
[52:45.960 --> 52:55.540]  Just want to say a couple of words about the, um, uh, about Legos and particularly the, uh, Lego book, uh, publishers weekly gave this a really good review.
[52:55.720 --> 52:59.360]  They said it's far from child's place and astonishing collection.
[52:59.540 --> 53:00.680]  That's, that's kind of cool.
[53:01.200 --> 53:08.300]  Uh, Nen and Zong says in, um, uh, these are, these are people that wrote in with, um, with their reviews about Legos in general.
[53:08.780 --> 53:14.520]  Uh, building is like making art while simultaneously solving a puzzle with the satisfaction of doing both.
[53:14.640 --> 53:19.120]  I think I, that pretty, uh, well sums up what, uh, uh, playing with Legos is all about.
[53:19.600 --> 53:25.260]  Uh, Lino Martin says bins of thousands of pieces, that's stored kinetic potential.
[53:26.160 --> 53:28.180]  And Nathan Sawaya says, Lego bricks.
[53:28.180 --> 53:30.620]  Let me create anything I can imagine.
[53:30.960 --> 53:32.580]  And, you know, I don't know how old these people are.
[53:32.660 --> 53:40.760]  They could be five, they could be four, they could be, you know, 55, but that magic translates through all cultures, through all ages.
[53:41.400 --> 53:48.120]  And that's the magic that we're trying to, um, to spread here tonight by offering this as part of our fundraiser, you're helping us.
[53:48.220 --> 53:55.380]  You're keeping the radio station going and, uh, inspiring some young minds and just basically spreading some really healthy outlooks.
[53:55.420 --> 53:58.200]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0.
[53:59.300 --> 53:59.960]  Hey, Manuel.
[54:00.140 --> 54:00.580]  Go ahead, Bernie.
[54:01.480 --> 54:18.800]  I just want to say that both of these books we're offering tonight as premium gifts for pledgers, uh, both got really high ratings, uh, both in the, uh, in the, uh, in the publishing community and by readers, uh, both, uh, both, uh, teacher, teacher, kids to code and beautiful Lego really have just stunning,
[54:18.800 --> 54:21.000]  stunning reviews all across the board.
[54:21.040 --> 54:24.140]  And I think we were good choices as premium gifts tonight.
[54:24.300 --> 54:34.940]  If anybody wants to support this station and get some nice thank you gifts by calling 2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0, you can get either book for $55 or both of them for $75.
[54:35.380 --> 54:39.560]  And the biggest, uh, the biggest thing you're supporting is, uh, is WBAI.
[54:39.700 --> 54:46.520]  You're getting some great gifts, but you're keeping this station on the air and a lot of expenses and moving into the new, uh, the new offices and studios.
[54:46.740 --> 54:54.520]  But, uh, it's a, it's a good change that I think is going to be, uh, uh, uh, facilitate keeping this station on the air, uh, for the continued, uh, years.
[54:54.900 --> 54:55.260]  Absolutely.
[54:55.380 --> 55:05.500]  And just a small reminder, if these books that we're, uh, talking about tonight are not for you, maybe, uh, maybe you're into other things, then, uh, I would encourage you to go to give the numeral to WBAI.org.
[55:05.660 --> 55:08.620]  There are actually some other gifts that the station themselves, uh, have available.
[55:08.860 --> 55:12.720]  Um, just be sure to indicate, uh, off the hook as the, uh, particular show you're supporting.
[55:12.920 --> 55:16.720]  And it will still help keep our station on the air, keep this, keep this show on the air.
[55:17.020 --> 55:21.300]  And, uh, ultimately it will, uh, keep this whole crazy experiment of this, this station going.
[55:21.460 --> 55:22.420]  And I think that's worth it.
[55:22.600 --> 55:24.840]  Whether or not these books are for you, there are other things you can do.
[55:24.920 --> 55:25.640]  You can just donate.
[55:25.840 --> 55:29.300]  Um, if you're, if you'd like to not receive a gift, you can donate and get some other gifts.
[55:29.400 --> 55:34.420]  There are some nice bandanas, uh, um, available now, uh, for, for, uh, certain donations.
[55:34.640 --> 55:35.940]  There are all kinds of things you can do.
[55:36.380 --> 55:42.020]  And, uh, yeah, all in support of, I think, What's a very important station and a wonderful place to be.
[55:42.160 --> 55:47.540]  I gotta say, you know, people dread fundraisers, both listeners and programmers, but it feels good to be back.
[55:47.640 --> 55:59.740]  It feels good to be back on a fundraiser with some good premiums in a new home here in Brooklyn and continuing WBAI's legacy throughout the years to come.
[55:59.920 --> 56:01.140]  Please be a part of that.
[56:01.300 --> 56:03.520]  Call us, 212-209-2950.
[56:03.840 --> 56:05.720]  Pledge for the beautiful Lego book.
[56:05.860 --> 56:07.620]  Pledge for the Teach Your Kids to Code book.
[56:07.620 --> 56:08.360]  Pledge for both.
[56:08.560 --> 56:10.060]  Pledge for whatever you feel like.
[56:10.160 --> 56:15.920]  But please keep this place going because it's an amazing bastion of free speech and expression.
[56:16.320 --> 56:20.560]  And there are generations ahead who have not yet found it, and they will.
[56:20.920 --> 56:24.740]  And this place will survive for a very, very long time.
[56:25.180 --> 56:27.880]  212-209-2950.
[56:28.200 --> 56:33.320]  Hey, Bryson, I want to thank you one more time for your generosity and for your inspiration.
[56:33.960 --> 56:34.900]  Thank you, Emmanuel.
[56:35.120 --> 56:37.020]  Thanks for having me on the first week in the news station.
[56:37.020 --> 56:37.460]  Okay.
[56:37.940 --> 56:39.540]  And there'll be many more, I hope.
[56:40.020 --> 56:42.820]  Write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:42.940 --> 56:46.060]  But do remember to call, 212-209-2950.
[56:46.340 --> 56:49.040]  We also want to thank Bill from NoStarch for donating the books.
[56:49.200 --> 56:53.180]  And if you go on their website, NoStarch.com, you see all the other cool stuff they're doing.
[56:53.380 --> 56:54.240]  And they're part of the...
[56:54.240 --> 56:58.140]  Another cool thing they're in is the Day Against DRM, which is today.
[56:58.260 --> 57:01.160]  So they're offering discounts on e-books, if that's your thing.
[57:01.260 --> 57:01.940]  So that's pretty cool.
[57:07.020 --> 57:10.380]  It's one of the many awesome things in this culture of ours.
[57:10.480 --> 57:11.540]  And I'm proud to be a part of it.
[57:12.100 --> 57:13.660]  Again, 212-209-2950.
[57:13.980 --> 57:14.900]  We are out of here.
[57:14.900 --> 57:15.640]  We'll be back next week.
[57:15.640 --> 57:17.380]  I think we have a special two-hour show next week.
[57:17.420 --> 57:18.240]  Won't that be fun?
[57:18.960 --> 57:19.260]  All right.
[57:19.380 --> 57:20.860]  OTH at 2600.com.
[57:20.940 --> 57:22.060]  We'll see you next week.
[57:22.060 --> 57:22.600]  Have a good night.
[57:22.600 --> 57:25.200]  We are back.
[01:00:37.290 --> 01:00:38.810]  We are back.