[00:34.100 --> 00:42.340]  And you are listening to WBAI New York, where the time is just, uh, well, it's a little bit after seven o'clock.
[00:43.280 --> 00:46.280]  And it's time once again for Off the Hook.
[00:51.590 --> 00:56.130]  The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:57.030 --> 01:01.670]  I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[01:02.210 --> 01:04.430]  We couldn't get much worse.
[01:07.330 --> 01:09.890]  Lillibom for the best, expect the worst.
[01:10.470 --> 01:12.430]  I hope that's understood.
[01:12.630 --> 01:13.430]  But Lillibom!
[01:59.120 --> 02:01.060]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:01.200 --> 02:02.460]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:02.740 --> 02:05.160]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:05.760 --> 02:07.300]  Joined tonight by Mike.
[02:07.540 --> 02:08.200]  Good evening.
[02:08.700 --> 02:09.680]  Rob Tee, Firefly.
[02:09.940 --> 02:10.380]  Good evening.
[02:11.240 --> 02:11.680]  Kyle.
[02:13.220 --> 02:16.900]  Uh, present, uh, what, what?
[02:17.660 --> 02:18.140]  Present?
[02:18.360 --> 02:18.570]  Hello.
[02:18.880 --> 02:20.660]  Yes, you have to speak to the Lord to be heard.
[02:21.200 --> 02:25.000]  You have to, yeah, you have to speak into the So do I have to really speak loudly?
[02:25.240 --> 02:26.060]  I don't know.
[02:26.380 --> 02:27.400]  I don't know.
[02:27.560 --> 02:29.570]  The equipment isn't that great, but it does work.
[02:29.740 --> 02:30.820]  But I am being heard.
[02:30.900 --> 02:31.660]  I think so.
[02:31.900 --> 02:32.280]  Okay.
[02:32.620 --> 02:33.180]  All right.
[02:33.780 --> 02:34.760]  And Bernie S.
[02:35.680 --> 02:36.820]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[02:37.060 --> 02:37.560]  Can you hear me?
[02:37.900 --> 02:38.860]  Yeah, we hear you fine.
[02:39.280 --> 02:40.160]  Um, yes.
[02:40.380 --> 02:42.010]  And we're getting strange looks from Reggie again.
[02:42.140 --> 02:44.460]  What's, uh, are we, are we on the air or off the air?
[02:44.460 --> 02:45.580]  No, we're on the air.
[02:45.680 --> 02:46.260]  We're on the air.
[02:46.380 --> 02:47.520]  Do we sound like crap?
[02:48.320 --> 02:49.400]  No, we sound fine.
[02:49.520 --> 02:50.820]  I'm just checking on you.
[02:50.880 --> 02:51.300]  All right.
[02:51.360 --> 02:51.880]  I care.
[02:52.400 --> 02:55.080]  He, he checks in every two minutes to make sure we're still okay.
[02:55.160 --> 02:56.100]  That's, that's, that's sweet.
[02:56.200 --> 02:56.880]  I, I appreciate it.
[02:56.900 --> 02:59.400]  That's a dedication that you find to be in.
[02:59.400 --> 03:06.100]  You know, I've heard in the past few weeks that my voice doesn't sound like it's coming over, but you know, we're not monitoring the air, unfortunately.
[03:06.100 --> 03:07.140]  So we can't tell.
[03:07.380 --> 03:09.700]  It sounds fine to me, but, uh, might not sound good on the air.
[03:09.800 --> 03:14.440]  And we just, we just came back on the air after being off the air for a number of hours.
[03:14.440 --> 03:18.820]  Something we found out when we got here, uh, which was a bit frustrating.
[03:18.820 --> 03:21.260]  And of course, as soon as we got here, everything was fixed.
[03:21.940 --> 03:23.060]  It's, it's, it's that simple.
[03:23.120 --> 03:24.360]  Should we claim to have fixed it?
[03:24.500 --> 03:26.700]  Or does that imply that we were the ones who broke it in?
[03:26.860 --> 03:31.360]  If we claim that, then we'll have to fix it again the next time it breaks, which who knows when that's going to be.
[03:31.540 --> 03:31.830]  All right.
[03:32.140 --> 03:33.360]  We're hearing our new facilities.
[03:33.660 --> 03:38.600]  You know, it's got nothing to do with our new facilities though, because it's a transmitter outage and a transmitter remains on top of the Empire State Building.
[03:40.000 --> 03:41.740]  We can blame the new facilities somehow.
[03:42.060 --> 03:43.120]  Yeah, we can.
[03:43.480 --> 03:43.500]  It seems unfair.
[03:44.220 --> 03:46.220]  It's the one thing that's not caused by them, but.
[03:46.460 --> 03:46.760]  Yeah.
[03:46.860 --> 03:47.640]  I'll tell you this though.
[03:47.680 --> 03:49.060]  On the way in, uh, we were listening.
[03:49.160 --> 03:57.960]  We realized that we weren't on the air and the crap that's on 99.5 FM when we're not on the air is, is, you know, it's typical, typical FM radio crap.
[03:58.720 --> 04:02.900]  But, uh, now we've taken 99.5 back here in New York City.
[04:03.160 --> 04:06.320]  So, um, hopefully it won't be quite as crappy.
[04:07.460 --> 04:09.160]  Probably we'll have more information.
[04:09.200 --> 04:10.880]  I'm sure about what happened.
[04:11.080 --> 04:11.300]  Uh huh.
[04:11.460 --> 04:11.740]  Yes.
[04:11.900 --> 04:19.580]  I think the problem is that Mike is very directional and you guys have to just get real cozy and share it because, uh, if you don't speak directly into it, you won't be heard.
[04:21.300 --> 04:21.660]  Okay.
[04:22.000 --> 04:22.100]  Yeah.
[04:22.300 --> 04:26.270]  But try not to speak like that because it's an annoying tone.
[04:26.680 --> 04:27.200]  All right.
[04:27.460 --> 04:36.240]  Here we are after going through all this, uh, all this strife when the last couple of minutes before we got in, uh, you know, Bernie, I hear you have a story of adventure.
[04:36.320 --> 04:38.400]  You got into some kind of a scuffle at the post office.
[04:38.540 --> 04:39.360]  Why don't you tell us about that?
[04:40.180 --> 04:40.900]  The fracas.
[04:41.260 --> 04:41.420]  Yes.
[04:41.960 --> 04:44.200]  I wasn't going postal, but some other people were.
[04:44.330 --> 04:49.480]  I, uh, I had to mail a piece, uh, I had to send a piece of certified mail return receipt thing, uh, yesterday.
[04:49.770 --> 04:52.830]  It's like a property tax, uh, assessment appeal thing.
[04:53.060 --> 04:54.020]  The deadline was yesterday.
[04:54.200 --> 04:59.300]  So it was really important that I made sure that I could prove that it was mailed and I sent a certified return receipt.
[04:59.420 --> 05:05.860]  But I also asked the postal clerk, can I take a picture of, uh, show me the envelope, but before you stick it in the bin there, cause I want to take a picture of it.
[05:06.060 --> 05:07.880]  And she just threw it in the bin and said, you can't do that.
[05:08.020 --> 05:08.940]  I'm like, well, why not?
[05:09.000 --> 05:09.680]  She said, it's illegal.
[05:10.480 --> 05:10.920]  Wait a minute.
[05:11.020 --> 05:15.600]  It's illegal to take a picture of a piece of my mail, for me to take a picture of my piece of mail.
[05:16.000 --> 05:16.620]  She said, yes.
[05:16.700 --> 05:18.320]  It's like, well, I really want to take a picture of it.
[05:18.720 --> 05:19.160]  Wait, wait, wait.
[05:19.220 --> 05:20.380]  Can I step in here for a second?
[05:20.560 --> 05:20.830]  Why?
[05:21.380 --> 05:21.660]  Why?
[05:22.340 --> 05:32.700]  I, you know, I, I, I, I applaud your, your, uh, constant vigilance for the causes of freedom, but you go into a post office with a letter and then after you give it to the postal clerk, you want to take a picture.
[05:32.760 --> 05:33.920]  It just sounds a little weird.
[05:34.480 --> 05:39.240]  Well, no, she had to do it, put the postmark on it and put the labels, because it was a certified mail.
[05:39.340 --> 05:43.280]  She had, you know, she had to wrap it up and all these special things and then put the postmark on it.
[05:43.280 --> 05:47.040]  And I wanted to take a picture of the finished product before it went into the mail.
[05:47.220 --> 05:52.000]  So I could say, isn't that the purpose of having a return receipt that they have that information?
[05:52.460 --> 05:54.980]  Yeah, but it's not like a picture of the whole envelope and all that.
[05:54.980 --> 05:57.320]  It's just, I just wanted to have like an extra thing.
[05:57.420 --> 06:01.900]  Cause I, you know, this is a legal thing and I wanted to doubly, I wanted to doubly cover my.
[06:01.980 --> 06:03.020]  All right, I'll allow it.
[06:03.080 --> 06:03.300]  Go ahead.
[06:03.460 --> 06:05.060]  But the whole point was she said it was illegal.
[06:05.480 --> 06:07.100]  And I said, well, I really don't think it is.
[06:07.240 --> 06:08.060]  Do you know what the law is?
[06:08.100 --> 06:10.240]  She says, well, you can't stay here.
[06:10.280 --> 06:10.740]  You have to go.
[06:10.940 --> 06:12.820]  I was the last person alive and they're getting good clothes.
[06:12.960 --> 06:19.240]  So I, I said, well, I'm not going to leave, leave until you, you, you like, tell me what this law is, uh, you know, being stubborn.
[06:19.380 --> 06:20.580]  And so she went and got a supervisor.
[06:20.780 --> 06:21.280]  Oh boy.
[06:21.340 --> 06:22.220]  Who then called security.
[06:22.540 --> 06:22.900]  Oh boy.
[06:22.980 --> 06:31.260]  And then there's a guy, uh, there's a security guard and a postal, uh, uh, supervisor saying you can't take pictures anywhere in the post office.
[06:31.460 --> 06:34.520]  I'm like, oh really, this is a public place and you can't take pictures in here.
[06:35.240 --> 06:39.780]  Um, and they said, there's a sign right down here by the entrance where you came in down the hall that says that.
[06:39.900 --> 06:40.300]  I'm like, really?
[06:40.420 --> 06:41.020]  Well, show me that.
[06:41.120 --> 06:44.500]  So we walked over there and we looked at the sign and all it said was the no smoking policy.
[06:45.080 --> 06:46.620]  And they said, well, you still can't take pictures.
[06:46.740 --> 06:51.220]  Wait, wait, they, they interpreted no smoking as meaning that you can't take pictures.
[06:51.940 --> 06:52.260]  Yes.
[06:52.380 --> 06:54.280]  The security guard said there was a sign right up there.
[06:54.360 --> 06:55.000]  We got to the sign.
[06:55.140 --> 07:05.560]  He was sort of like, uh, uh, uh, kind of embarrassed that maybe Bernie, maybe Bernie, they thought that you were going to photograph them doing something wrong and, and call it the smoking gun.
[07:05.760 --> 07:10.860]  And they wanted to forbid that that could be, or it could have been one of those old style cameras, you know, that goes, we just flash powder.
[07:11.020 --> 07:12.000]  Maybe that would have been smoking.
[07:12.220 --> 07:15.700]  I don't know, but they said, if you don't leave, the police are coming.
[07:15.740 --> 07:19.000]  If you want, if you want to leave before they get here, the police are coming.
[07:19.300 --> 07:22.040]  Well, because you took a picture, you didn't even take the picture.
[07:22.120 --> 07:23.060]  You tried to take a picture.
[07:23.180 --> 07:23.940]  You tried to take a picture.
[07:24.020 --> 07:24.980]  And then you had discussion about it.
[07:24.980 --> 07:25.900]  And they called the police for that.
[07:25.960 --> 07:27.220]  I wonder what the charge would be.
[07:27.540 --> 07:28.280]  It was bizarre.
[07:28.360 --> 07:31.380]  As I said, I said, well, which I said, and what charges are you calling the police?
[07:32.340 --> 07:36.480]  So I left and I'm walking down the street and then a woman voice from prime.
[07:36.600 --> 07:37.940]  He said, excuse me, excuse me.
[07:38.040 --> 07:38.540]  I turned around.
[07:38.620 --> 07:44.920]  It was a whole department of Homeland security, police officer, nice woman with the, wait, wait, wait, no, no, no, hold on.
[07:45.080 --> 07:45.180]  Hold on.
[07:45.260 --> 07:46.520]  Department of Homeland security police.
[07:46.740 --> 07:48.140]  So first of all, Well, how could you tell that right away?
[07:48.260 --> 07:49.760]  They wear special uniforms now?
[07:50.820 --> 07:53.700]  Well, it said DH's big...
[07:53.700 --> 07:59.860]  She had a bulletproof vest on with a big yellow DHS on it, and then the Homeland Stupidity patches on the side.
[08:01.040 --> 08:03.240]  It's too bad you weren't wearing yours from Hope, you know?
[08:03.740 --> 08:04.420]  No, I was.
[08:04.500 --> 08:09.180]  The funny thing is, I was wearing the Hope X t-shirt that had a little faux badge on the front of it.
[08:10.780 --> 08:12.140]  I didn't plan it that way.
[08:12.300 --> 08:13.220]  I didn't plan it that way.
[08:13.540 --> 08:15.960]  And she asked me what the story was, and I explained it to her.
[08:15.960 --> 08:17.200]  She said, was it your piece of mail?
[08:17.340 --> 08:18.660]  I said, yes, it was my piece of mail.
[08:19.080 --> 08:24.720]  And I said, and by the way, doesn't the Post Office take pictures of everybody's mail anyway?
[08:24.780 --> 08:26.100]  You had to bring that up?
[08:26.560 --> 08:28.040]  That's a sore point for them.
[08:28.160 --> 08:28.400]  Wow.
[08:28.600 --> 08:29.160]  So, okay.
[08:29.600 --> 08:33.640]  They've admitted doing that, but she wasn't aware of that, because she's not working for the Post Office.
[08:34.290 --> 08:43.000]  So I finally walked away, and then I saw her walk across the street to where the security guard was, and he was gesticulating mildly about whatever it was.
[08:43.120 --> 08:43.960]  And that was the end of it.
[08:44.020 --> 08:44.600]  But it was just silly.
[08:44.600 --> 08:55.280]  I just thought it was greatly ironic that they're saying, the Post Office is saying, you can't take pictures anywhere in a Post Office, especially of a piece of your own mail, while they are photographing every single piece of mail going through the postal system,
[08:55.540 --> 08:57.980]  including everybody who's in the Post Office with their own cameras.
[08:57.980 --> 09:02.520]  There is an actual law or rule that they have.
[09:02.690 --> 09:04.670]  Are you aware of what they actually say?
[09:05.170 --> 09:21.140]  I did some research that night, last night, and it says that photography and filming for personal use, informal snapshots from handheld cameras for personal use, may be allowed at the Postmaster's discretion, provided there is no disruption to postal service operations,
[09:21.140 --> 09:24.260]  and that the pictures are taken from areas accessible to the public.
[09:24.260 --> 09:26.220]  And so that sounds like what I was doing.
[09:26.360 --> 09:27.380]  Well, maybe...
[09:27.380 --> 09:29.430]  Yeah, I mean, it's not your fault it was disruptive.
[09:29.430 --> 09:31.920]  They were the ones being disruptive, but they could certainly say that.
[09:32.020 --> 09:34.520]  And the Postmaster apparently has the right...
[09:34.520 --> 09:37.980]  I don't know if you talk to the Postmaster, but they have the right to say no or yes, right?
[09:38.440 --> 09:38.820]  I mean...
[09:38.820 --> 09:41.480]  Yeah, and the Postmaster probably wasn't even there.
[09:41.580 --> 09:51.140]  And there's another rule they have, Title 39 of the Postal Service, Chapter 1, United States Postal, or Chapter Subtext, Part 232.1, Conduct on Postal Property.
[09:51.740 --> 10:09.160]  Photographs for news, advertising, or commercial purposes, except as prohibited by official signs or the directions of security force personnel or other authorized personnel, or a federal court order or rule, photographs for news purposes may be taken in entrances,
[10:09.420 --> 10:13.620]  lobbies, lawyers, corridors, or auditoriums when used for public meetings.
[10:13.760 --> 10:22.300]  I mean, Bernie, it sounds like you may have the correct legal position here, but there may be a moral that, like, don't get into arguments with people as they're trying to leave for the day.
[10:22.400 --> 10:23.100]  They won't be happy.
[10:24.300 --> 10:28.740]  Yeah, if nothing else, when your letter gets where it's going, it's going to have some extra footprints on it and maybe some bite marks.
[10:29.140 --> 10:34.180]  I'm sure they dug it out to get my name and address, and they probably took the important stuff out of the envelope.
[10:34.320 --> 10:34.660]  Who knows?
[10:35.140 --> 10:36.640]  But I can be sure they took pictures of it.
[10:36.840 --> 10:37.720]  Did you let it arrive?
[10:37.900 --> 10:39.220]  I mean, it should have arrived by today, right?
[10:39.220 --> 10:39.360]  I don't know.
[10:39.460 --> 10:40.600]  I just sent it yesterday.
[10:40.880 --> 10:41.340]  I'll have to check.
[10:41.480 --> 10:41.900]  I didn't do the tracking.
[10:41.900 --> 10:44.380]  After all this, you're not even checking to see if your letter arrived?
[10:44.900 --> 10:46.440]  I figured I'd give it a couple of days.
[10:46.440 --> 10:48.400]  You wanted to take a picture of it, for God's sake.
[10:48.400 --> 10:51.200]  You really cared about this letter, and you didn't even check to see if it arrived.
[10:51.800 --> 10:53.420]  I'll check it with you next week, Emmanuel.
[10:54.140 --> 10:55.860]  Well, you know, I'm not sure we'll be on next week.
[10:55.860 --> 11:09.420]  You know, the original plan was for us to do a show, you know, like when soccer fans are bad and they have to play to an empty stadium, we were going to broadcast to an empty audience and then have it on the air next week, which would have been awfully weird.
[11:09.480 --> 11:11.400]  We would have sounded a week out of date, because it would have been.
[11:11.920 --> 11:16.000]  So I'm happy that, miraculously, the station came back on just when we were sitting down.
[11:16.440 --> 11:17.240]  Yeah, close call.
[11:17.740 --> 11:18.960]  Now, here's the thing.
[11:19.120 --> 11:25.740]  This is week number three for us, week number four for the station of the spring fundraiser.
[11:26.280 --> 11:34.160]  And what that means is we need to have people call in and pledge funds to the radio station in our name, in the name of Off the Hook.
[11:34.160 --> 11:40.780]  We have a couple of really unique items tonight that you will not hear in any other show on any other station.
[11:42.400 --> 11:46.440]  I'm going to start with Rob, because, Rob, you have something really, really cool that you're offering.
[11:46.720 --> 11:52.600]  And those of you who know Rob, those of you who have listened to the radio over the years, knows that he has a lot of talent artistically.
[11:52.600 --> 12:03.040]  And this is something unique that you can benefit from if you call 212-209-2950 and pledge...
[12:03.040 --> 12:04.640]  How much are we asking for this?
[12:04.960 --> 12:05.400]  $50.
[12:05.760 --> 12:06.480]  A pledge of $50.
[12:07.140 --> 12:07.580]  $50.
[12:07.780 --> 12:07.960]  $50.
[12:08.770 --> 12:10.420]  212-209-2950.
[12:10.420 --> 12:13.440]  What will the folks get if they call that number and pledge that amount?
[12:13.580 --> 12:21.600]  If they pledge that amount, apart from the main premium, which is this radio station and this outlet for us to do what we do, you will also get a painting of mine.
[12:21.820 --> 12:22.720]  I do work as an artist.
[12:23.280 --> 12:26.980]  I've done something like this before on this program, and I'm doing it again.
[12:26.980 --> 12:30.700]  So I am going to be doing some paintings on canvas, on stretched canvas.
[12:31.380 --> 12:41.300]  And I am going to do a series of them, paintings of luminaries from the hacker world, just notable people, people who have had an effect on the hacker world as we know it now.
[12:41.480 --> 12:43.220]  And you can get one of these.
[12:43.540 --> 12:58.480]  They will all be actual paintings, not prints, not anything mass-produced, but the actual paintings that I produce will be yours, along with a little card explaining the subject of the painting, just for a pledge of $50, which on its own I think would be a good price for this painting.
[12:59.400 --> 13:04.160]  But what you're really getting is the radio station and this outlet.
[13:04.360 --> 13:16.140]  And if you're curious about what this might look like, you can go to robvincent.net, where I put up a bunch of pictures of other paintings I've done, including the ones I've done for this program before, and you can get a feel for what you might be getting.
[13:16.140 --> 13:29.360]  So if you call 212-209-2950, or go to give, the numeral 2, wbai.org, and pledge $50 for the... pledge at least $50 for the support of this show and this station, you can get one of these.
[13:29.720 --> 13:31.160]  Let me make sure I understand.
[13:31.680 --> 13:41.080]  The people, they call 212-209-2950, they say to the friendly person who answers the phone, hello, I would like the luminaries of the hacker world painting.
[13:41.080 --> 13:46.380]  And then what they'll say to them is, it's $50, or you can always pledge more, of course.
[13:46.880 --> 13:51.000]  And then what happens is, you will paint a painting just for that person.
[13:51.260 --> 13:51.840]  Yes, indeed.
[13:51.980 --> 13:54.520]  I will paint a painting, and that person will get that painting.
[13:55.760 --> 13:56.480]  And, and...
[13:56.480 --> 13:57.160]  And...
[13:57.160 --> 13:58.060]  We stay on the air.
[13:58.260 --> 13:58.940]  We stay on the air.
[13:59.020 --> 13:59.500]  That's amazing.
[13:59.740 --> 14:04.040]  Now, okay, just to make it clear, though, the person has no idea what painting they're going to get.
[14:04.320 --> 14:04.860]  No, that's part of the...
[14:04.860 --> 14:05.660]  It's going to be a surprise.
[14:05.660 --> 14:06.640]  That's part of the fun of it.
[14:06.780 --> 14:12.200]  And you, you will get the painting, you will get a nice little display card saying who's on the painting and what they did.
[14:12.380 --> 14:26.820]  And you, and of course, you'll be getting the radio station and you'll be getting, you'll be keeping us alive doing what we do as has the only thing that's been keeping the station alive for over 50 years now is just what we're doing now, is just asking the audience for our direct support.
[14:27.800 --> 14:29.440]  212-209-2950.
[14:29.440 --> 14:34.640]  Get this unique, unique gift from, from a bunch of hackers.
[14:34.780 --> 14:35.580]  What's it actually called?
[14:35.660 --> 14:37.520]  When they call in, there's a name for it, right?
[14:37.840 --> 14:40.140]  Yeah, it's the Luminaries of the Hacker World Painting.
[14:41.100 --> 14:42.480]  Luminaries of the Hacker World Painting.
[14:42.600 --> 14:46.660]  Okay, so when you call up, that's what you have to ask for because otherwise people on the other end might not know what you're talking about.
[14:47.400 --> 14:49.360]  212-209-2950.
[14:49.360 --> 14:51.000]  Just ask for the luminary package.
[14:51.020 --> 14:54.480]  I'm sure that's the only luminary thing we're offering here in this fundraiser.
[14:54.560 --> 14:55.560]  Well, luminaries.
[14:55.860 --> 14:58.960]  If their search engine is not any good, I don't know if it is or not.
[14:59.040 --> 14:59.740]  Yeah, yeah.
[14:59.980 --> 15:02.460]  Okay, Bernie, any thoughts on this?
[15:05.660 --> 15:17.360]  Rob's original artwork at the Hope Conferences, where I think, was it the most recent Hope or the one prior to that you painted pictures of people we were naming rooms after at the Hope Conference?
[15:17.480 --> 15:19.820]  And some of them, they were just really well done.
[15:19.820 --> 15:29.620]  And this is an original 5x7-inch over-stretched canvas painting that's done specifically for the person pledging.
[15:29.700 --> 15:35.260]  This is really an amazing piece of artwork you're getting for 50 bucks is nothing for original artwork on stretched canvas painting.
[15:35.340 --> 15:37.360]  I'm not an artist, but I know that much.
[15:37.520 --> 15:39.600]  And you're keeping the radio station on the air.
[15:39.820 --> 15:43.420]  It's like Rob will paint for airtime.
[15:43.720 --> 15:44.800]  It's pretty good.
[15:44.980 --> 15:46.800]  212-290.
[15:47.940 --> 15:49.100]  No, no, no, no, no.
[15:49.940 --> 15:50.260]  209.
[15:51.040 --> 15:52.900]  We're going to mess this up in every way possible.
[15:53.380 --> 15:53.700]  212.
[15:54.020 --> 15:54.860]  We got the area code, at least.
[15:55.000 --> 15:55.640]  We haven't screwed that up yet.
[15:55.740 --> 15:59.160]  212-209-2950 is the phone number.
[15:59.280 --> 16:00.840]  And we want to see people call in now.
[16:01.380 --> 16:12.240]  Sorry, I don't mean to be loud, but we work so hard to get this place in shape, to get it back on the air, to keep the show going, to provide you with all kinds of content.
[16:12.800 --> 16:14.400]  So we need to hear from people.
[16:14.400 --> 16:15.320]  It's so important.
[16:16.580 --> 16:22.780]  212-209-2950 an awesome, unique package that we're offering here with Luminaries.
[16:22.920 --> 16:23.880]  But it's not all.
[16:23.980 --> 16:24.700]  It's not all.
[16:24.780 --> 16:25.400]  We have more.
[16:25.620 --> 16:27.160]  We have a second package.
[16:27.340 --> 16:28.120]  You can get both packages.
[16:28.280 --> 16:29.240]  You can get either package.
[16:30.180 --> 16:32.180]  I guess technically you could get no package.
[16:33.000 --> 16:35.380]  But we hope that you call in and pledge something.
[16:35.580 --> 16:41.960]  If you just want to keep us on the air, which I think is the most important premium of all, you can give any amount of money and that will help us do that.
[16:41.960 --> 16:42.320]  Yes.
[16:42.920 --> 16:44.420]  So we have...
[16:44.420 --> 16:48.860]  And this is for a pledge of, I believe, a rather unique amount, Mike?
[16:49.140 --> 16:51.000]  Yeah, you pledged $99.50.
[16:52.180 --> 16:53.180]  $99.50.
[16:53.260 --> 16:54.320]  We've never done that before.
[16:54.380 --> 16:57.120]  So this is $1 for every megahertz of our frequency.
[16:57.120 --> 16:58.520]  It's our frequency, 99.5.
[16:58.520 --> 17:08.620]  So if you pledge $99.50, we have a special, very limited, because we only have a few of these, a very limited package that Kyle is going to explain.
[17:08.820 --> 17:10.300]  Yeah, I'll explain this one.
[17:10.300 --> 17:11.120]  And it's...
[17:11.120 --> 17:12.580]  We're calling it a combo package.
[17:12.580 --> 17:18.860]  It's really just a whole cavalcade of different items, things that we've offered maybe in the past.
[17:18.860 --> 17:24.300]  Maybe we weren't going to have anything available in the future.
[17:24.470 --> 17:26.620]  Well, we were able to clean house a little bit.
[17:26.710 --> 17:29.210]  We did a little spring cleaning, obviously, tis the season.
[17:29.660 --> 17:34.940]  And the station here got basically anything that was unresolved, any extra stuff.
[17:34.940 --> 17:37.060]  We collected it all and we were able to put this together.
[17:37.200 --> 17:38.160]  So what it is...
[17:38.160 --> 17:39.120]  And I'm going to read it quickly.
[17:39.120 --> 17:41.920]  We can explain in detail each item, but I'll just go right through the list.
[17:42.030 --> 17:42.580]  Pay attention, everybody.
[17:42.700 --> 17:45.560]  First item, this originally was donated by Jamico.
[17:45.880 --> 17:49.380]  It's a digital multimeter for electronics measurement.
[17:49.710 --> 17:58.820]  I'm offering in this package also two different types of lockpick sets, both offered from Tool in the past.
[17:58.940 --> 18:01.600]  The open organization of lockpickers.
[18:01.600 --> 18:02.060]  Of lockpickers.
[18:02.210 --> 18:02.420]  Correct.
[18:02.420 --> 18:05.420]  But we have not before offered both pick sets.
[18:05.600 --> 18:07.060]  That's all in this package.
[18:07.250 --> 18:12.360]  And additionally, we'll have the TV Be Gone Pros from Cornfield Electronics.
[18:12.360 --> 18:17.060]  Good people over there have helped a lot with pledges in the past.
[18:17.710 --> 18:19.970]  A spy pen video recorder.
[18:20.200 --> 18:20.520]  Oh, boy.
[18:21.040 --> 18:23.470]  A key chain video recorder.
[18:23.880 --> 18:24.040]  Oh, boy.
[18:24.240 --> 18:26.440]  Two different types of video recording technology.
[18:27.380 --> 18:36.880]  Surreptitious, I might say, a DVD of the Ark Attack Tesla Coil Performers.
[18:37.040 --> 18:40.280]  I guess you might say they're Tesla Coil Hackers.
[18:40.500 --> 18:41.300]  We saw them at Maker Faire.
[18:41.500 --> 18:41.880]  Absolutely.
[18:42.180 --> 18:42.300]  Yep.
[18:42.460 --> 18:43.940]  They were very, very generous.
[18:43.960 --> 18:49.470]  And we found a couple of their DVDs, which are really interesting and hard to find, hard to come by.
[18:49.600 --> 18:50.400]  You know, they're around.
[18:50.620 --> 18:54.470]  They sell merchandise like a band, you know, as they're traveling.
[18:54.470 --> 18:56.680]  You know, already this package is pretty amazing.
[18:56.920 --> 18:57.860]  I know, there's so much stuff I can't list at all.
[18:58.480 --> 18:59.900]  There's a book, Ghost in the Wires.
[19:00.060 --> 19:00.560]  We've offered that.
[19:00.680 --> 19:00.970]  All of those...
[19:00.970 --> 19:02.140]  Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[19:02.280 --> 19:03.160]  The Kevin Mitnick book?
[19:03.300 --> 19:04.740]  Yeah, we're offering the Kevin Mitnick book.
[19:04.840 --> 19:05.620]  And it's autographed?
[19:05.680 --> 19:07.460]  I believe these ones are signed copies.
[19:07.600 --> 19:09.660]  They're from previous pledge drives.
[19:09.800 --> 19:13.560]  I've seen those things going on eBay for more than what we're asking for the entire package.
[19:13.820 --> 19:14.860]  Wait, there's more.
[19:14.860 --> 19:16.340]  You could make money on this.
[19:16.580 --> 19:17.470]  I just wanted to say that.
[19:17.520 --> 19:18.260]  No, there is more, though.
[19:18.440 --> 19:19.040]  There is more.
[19:19.440 --> 19:23.800]  We're going to offer 2600 Hacker Quarterly Mouse Pads, which we've offered a little bit.
[19:23.900 --> 19:24.540]  They're on our store.
[19:24.640 --> 19:26.660]  Obviously, it's a cool item.
[19:26.660 --> 19:27.660]  I wasn't asked about this.
[19:27.840 --> 19:28.620]  We're giving away mouse pads.
[19:28.820 --> 19:29.460]  These are...
[19:29.460 --> 19:30.360]  Look, I found a stack.
[19:30.500 --> 19:31.380]  These are great mouse pads.
[19:32.160 --> 19:36.460]  The station uses one for its mouse in the common area.
[19:36.620 --> 19:38.280]  That's how popular this mouse pad is.
[19:38.280 --> 19:40.940]  You can also use it for a Frisbee because they're round and they do fly.
[19:41.140 --> 19:49.240]  You can also use them as an espresso tamper if you're pulling shots and you need something to dose out your grounds.
[19:49.640 --> 19:50.710]  Spoken from experience.
[19:50.710 --> 19:51.780]  I've seen this, yes.
[19:51.970 --> 19:53.710]  It's a mouse pad or a espresso tamper.
[19:54.920 --> 19:56.200]  Also, Tesla bills.
[19:56.200 --> 20:11.180]  We have a couple of those left over from a sort of really cool collectible thing we did where we brought back bills and we've got a couple of other ones of earlier vintage that we gathered.
[20:11.180 --> 20:15.800]  Actually, Bernie helped gather those when our supply ran out because they were so popular.
[20:16.060 --> 20:17.760]  And then also just other stuff.
[20:17.860 --> 20:20.040]  We're going to try to throw in a couple of other things, but we've got a lot of stickers.
[20:20.440 --> 20:23.060]  I know Mitch did a bunch of hacker sticker packages in the past.
[20:23.180 --> 20:23.820]  We'll try to throw those.
[20:23.820 --> 20:34.420]  Okay, but literally, literally, we only have a handful of these because what you're describing here is basically we're clearing out a lot of space for leftover items that we've had over the years and we don't have that many.
[20:34.600 --> 20:44.140]  And I thought tying it together as what we're calling it officially, this is what you ask for when you dial the pledge to people, hacker combo gift set.
[20:44.300 --> 20:45.580]  Okay, that's what you have to ask for.
[20:45.660 --> 20:55.340]  Hacker combo gift set 212-209-2950 pledge of $99.50 will get you this amazing collection of all kinds of hacker material.
[20:55.460 --> 21:00.600]  A book, a DVD, two different video recorders, a TV Be Gone Pro, lockpick set.
[21:00.760 --> 21:01.700]  I'd like to just go over a couple...
[21:01.700 --> 21:02.040]  It's insane.
[21:02.060 --> 21:03.000]  There's so much stuff here.
[21:03.200 --> 21:05.420]  We zipped right over the TV Be Gone Pro.
[21:05.580 --> 21:07.560]  Now, that alone is an awesome device.
[21:07.560 --> 21:12.760]  It allows you to turn off a TV set from, I think, half a kilometer away at least.
[21:13.300 --> 21:19.020]  We were using it on 2nd Avenue on the bus, just turning TVs off in the bars as we were going by.
[21:19.080 --> 21:21.460]  It was kind of fun, but nobody got hurt.
[21:21.560 --> 21:21.970]  They're cool.
[21:22.160 --> 21:28.680]  It's a great way to recapture control of your mental environment, your landscape there, mentally.
[21:29.000 --> 21:30.860]  And they're much improved.
[21:31.000 --> 21:33.400]  They have a lot of the new codes for different TVs.
[21:33.780 --> 21:36.360]  And they're also USB rechargeable, pretty standard these days.
[21:36.400 --> 21:39.860]  But they've got a little lithium-ion pack, I believe, in there.
[21:40.260 --> 21:42.000]  And it comes with a charger, too.
[21:42.000 --> 21:43.380]  And that's only one thing that you get.
[21:43.520 --> 21:48.620]  You get two different video surveillance items that Steve Rambam would be very proud of.
[21:48.620 --> 21:53.280]  I think you can basically leave a pen in somebody's office and spy on them.
[21:54.500 --> 21:55.900]  All kinds of other...
[21:56.340 --> 21:59.340]  Well, I guess it's probably non-sneaky things you can do with it as well.
[21:59.640 --> 22:01.280]  Parent-teacher conference meeting, whatever you need.
[22:01.280 --> 22:03.200]  Yeah, whatever you need to spy on.
[22:03.720 --> 22:07.540]  I haven't actually used one of these things, but I do know the technology is pretty nifty.
[22:07.980 --> 22:14.200]  So, I mean, if we're operating a store and just selling you a package of all these items for this price, that would be an amazing deal.
[22:14.340 --> 22:15.660]  But we're not doing that.
[22:15.760 --> 22:17.920]  What we're doing is we're thanking you for your donation.
[22:18.140 --> 22:22.540]  You're helping keep us, this radio station, this radio program, on the air.
[22:22.980 --> 22:25.280]  And in return, you get all these things.
[22:25.320 --> 22:30.000]  I mean, some of which we've probably asked for $100 pledge just to give you one of these things.
[22:30.200 --> 22:34.280]  And I can't even count how high the number of items we're including in this package.
[22:34.600 --> 22:36.520]  It's amazing, and we only have a few of them.
[22:36.700 --> 22:38.640]  So, 212-209-2950.
[22:39.060 --> 22:40.700]  Say, hacker combo gift set.
[22:40.800 --> 22:42.440]  Just say that the first thing when the person picks up the phone.
[22:42.440 --> 22:43.280]  Don't even say hello.
[22:43.520 --> 22:44.300]  Just, well, say hello.
[22:44.400 --> 22:44.880]  Yeah, but fine.
[22:44.960 --> 22:50.760]  But when the person picks up, just get right to it because I cannot imagine these things lasting past the hour.
[22:50.940 --> 22:53.940]  I really can't because what we're giving away here is just so incredible.
[22:54.180 --> 22:57.660]  And for $99.50, it's so well worth it.
[22:58.080 --> 22:59.620]  212-209-2950.
[22:59.860 --> 23:01.160]  And add to that, Rob T.
[23:01.300 --> 23:04.300]  Firefly's painting for an additional pledge of $50.
[23:05.140 --> 23:06.660]  And I think you covered.
[23:06.760 --> 23:08.240]  I think you covered for quite some time.
[23:08.360 --> 23:09.820]  So, get both.
[23:09.960 --> 23:10.780]  Get one or the other.
[23:11.140 --> 23:15.520]  But do call 212-209-2950 and keep us going.
[23:15.640 --> 23:16.820]  Keep off the hook on the air.
[23:17.060 --> 23:17.780]  Yeah, absolutely.
[23:17.840 --> 23:19.640]  I don't want to diminish the value of any of these one items.
[23:20.040 --> 23:21.400]  We have a limited set.
[23:21.620 --> 23:25.300]  And basically, these are definitely thank you gifts.
[23:25.460 --> 23:28.780]  We are putting a whole bunch of things together with this set.
[23:29.820 --> 23:33.880]  And it's, you know, the sum of this is probably worth quite a bit more.
[23:33.960 --> 23:49.240]  But the point is for these items, the commitment Rob's making, the ability for us to kind of put a really special package together like this, all those things really sum up to how much we care and are dedicated to this program and what BAI's doing.
[23:49.540 --> 23:53.760]  The really kind of exciting possibilities being in this new facility.
[23:54.580 --> 24:16.140]  I think there's going to be a rejuvenation and we hope that by thanking you with this stuff, you'll feel moved to make a commitment, pledge some money, that financial gift you make and we'll return this in kind as well as bring you more broadcasts from off the hook and from BAI.
[24:16.420 --> 24:22.620]  One thing we should clarify and you can correct me if I misunderstand, we don't have the same number of all of these items.
[24:22.840 --> 24:30.160]  So the first people to pledge, the people who call right now, 212-209-2950, they're going to get everything in the package.
[24:31.870 --> 24:40.060]  And everyone else will get most of the things we mentioned, but if there's something that really makes it for you, call now and be sure to get it.
[24:40.240 --> 24:40.600]  Yeah, definitely.
[24:40.700 --> 24:45.880]  Now is the time to call and we may have to make some substitutions, but I don't imagine.
[24:45.880 --> 24:52.500]  I think everybody who calls ASAP will be able to get this full kit.
[24:52.920 --> 24:56.220]  Okay, 212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[24:56.300 --> 24:57.440]  Bernie, any thoughts on this?
[24:57.940 --> 25:02.800]  This Packer Combo gift set for 9950 pledge is an...
[25:02.800 --> 25:04.260]  you could have a lot of fun.
[25:04.360 --> 25:05.780]  Anybody could have a lot of fun with all this.
[25:05.820 --> 25:09.580]  A digital multimeter, you can measure volts, amps, ohms, you name it.
[25:10.400 --> 25:15.880]  Capacitants, diodes, it has a continuity tester so it beats when you have a closed circuit.
[25:16.500 --> 25:18.120]  Two different lockpick sets?
[25:19.380 --> 25:21.980]  The world is your oyster with these lockpicks.
[25:22.860 --> 25:24.720]  Of course, only for legal purposes.
[25:25.000 --> 25:26.660]  We have to put the disclaimer in there.
[25:27.040 --> 25:28.640]  All those other great things.
[25:28.840 --> 25:31.840]  This is like a barrel of hacker fun.
[25:32.700 --> 25:37.300]  For 9950, call 212-209-2950.
[25:37.300 --> 25:44.020]  The most important thing is you're supporting this radio station, WBI, stay on the air, and it's crazy programming like off the hook.
[25:44.600 --> 25:45.980]  Yes, crazy programming indeed.
[25:46.360 --> 25:49.120]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[25:49.660 --> 25:59.180]  Please call and pledge either of those amounts, $99.50 to get the huge package of hacker items or $50 to get Rob T.
[25:59.260 --> 26:00.920]  Firefly's painting of a hacker luminary.
[26:01.540 --> 26:01.940]  And.
[26:02.580 --> 26:03.880]  I mean, this is amazing.
[26:04.320 --> 26:05.200]  Pledge for both.
[26:05.560 --> 26:06.340]  Yes, pledge for both.
[26:06.460 --> 26:08.420]  212-209-2950.
[26:08.640 --> 26:10.660]  And again, one more time, the names of these items are?
[26:10.900 --> 26:13.600]  So you can ask for the hacker combo gift set.
[26:13.860 --> 26:16.840]  You can ask for the luminaries of the hacker world painting.
[26:16.860 --> 26:17.880]  You can ask for both.
[26:18.040 --> 26:20.740]  You can say you just want to support the station and get no premium.
[26:21.160 --> 26:25.800]  Whatever you do, we really appreciate your support and we want to send you some great stuff in return.
[26:25.960 --> 26:29.040]  Once more, the phone number is 212-209-2950.
[26:29.040 --> 26:32.800]  Okay, we have a lot to talk about in the brief time that we have left.
[26:33.040 --> 26:34.800]  So we'd like to get to as much of that as possible.
[26:34.940 --> 26:41.500]  If we see calls coming in, obviously that's incentive for us to keep talking about the news and not encourage people to call in.
[26:42.780 --> 26:43.460]  Patriot Act.
[26:43.620 --> 26:47.860]  Okay, listen, we are facing some interesting times here.
[26:48.800 --> 26:50.460]  Time is running out.
[26:50.840 --> 26:59.960]  President Obama yesterday urged the Senate to pass legislation to renew surveillance programs that are scheduled to expire next weekend or risk during the American people.
[27:00.220 --> 27:04.680]  The problem we have now is that those authorities run out at midnight on Sunday, he said.
[27:04.780 --> 27:10.680]  So I strongly urge the Senate to work through this recess and make sure that they identify a way to get this done.
[27:11.000 --> 27:12.740]  But Congress remains on recess.
[27:13.060 --> 27:19.340]  The chances of the Senate's passing the legislation before the Sunday night deadline are slim at best.
[27:19.360 --> 27:28.100]  And the White House faces the prospect that its legal authority to carry out some of these programs will vanish at least for a few days until the political gridlock in the Senate is resolved.
[27:28.520 --> 27:35.480]  You know, are we looking at something that's just going to last a couple days and then it's just going to be put right back into place like it always is?
[27:35.720 --> 27:37.700]  I mean, I want to believe.
[27:37.860 --> 27:38.320]  I really do.
[27:38.500 --> 27:39.940]  But do you think they're going to stop?
[27:41.180 --> 27:42.440]  Even for a couple days?
[27:42.800 --> 27:47.760]  Or do you think they're going to come up with some other authority under which to maintain the same programs?
[27:47.760 --> 27:50.800]  I'm sure they won't have this...
[27:51.420 --> 27:56.900]  They won't imagine that they have the support of the law behind them like they're saying.
[27:57.240 --> 27:59.940]  And it seems pretty obvious that the people don't support this.
[28:00.040 --> 28:02.920]  It seems pretty obvious that a growing number of congressmen don't support this.
[28:03.720 --> 28:04.900]  So, I don't know.
[28:05.040 --> 28:10.520]  Even though I'm sure they'll keep spying, I'm sure they'll keep gathering information one way or another, it is a statement.
[28:10.660 --> 28:12.700]  It's a definite vote.
[28:14.040 --> 28:19.940]  Even with the interest and it becoming politicized with the elections and stuff coming up, I do think this is going to be a long fight.
[28:20.140 --> 28:21.220]  That's all I'll say about that.
[28:21.380 --> 28:21.500]  Yeah.
[28:21.620 --> 28:21.820]  Bernie?
[28:22.520 --> 28:23.740]  I was going to say there's...
[28:24.240 --> 28:25.800]  I think Kyle read my mind there.
[28:26.260 --> 28:30.720]  This is becoming a topic in our presidential primary race.
[28:31.780 --> 28:37.540]  Not that I'm a fan of him or anything, but Rand Paul is making this issue a major part of his platform.
[28:37.800 --> 28:44.600]  The NSA collecting intelligence about all Americans' communications.
[28:45.340 --> 28:54.020]  And he would not be making that a major part of his platform if he didn't think a large percentage of the American people really cared passionately about that.
[28:54.160 --> 28:55.840]  And I think that speaks volumes.
[28:56.120 --> 29:02.840]  It'll be interesting with the other candidates how they handle this issue too, because it's going to be on the public mind.
[29:02.860 --> 29:05.140]  It's going to get a lot of coverage, and I'm glad of that.
[29:05.440 --> 29:11.660]  And this is also the biggest deal that I've seen regarding the position this is taking in the public debate.
[29:12.380 --> 29:18.140]  Basically, the Patriot Act and everything attached to it has not been questioned nearly enough.
[29:18.280 --> 29:19.420]  It's barely been questioned at all.
[29:19.660 --> 29:27.580]  But this is the first time that we've had sort of a statement being made against it on the Congress, on the congressional level, since around October of 2001.
[29:28.380 --> 29:37.720]  This is the first time that I think the people that are representing us are actually starting to reflect the fact that, yes, most people don't support this.
[29:37.840 --> 29:40.040]  Yes, most people do want to see things change.
[29:40.220 --> 29:46.680]  And maybe the people that vote these people into office will now have some actual representation of their views.
[29:46.840 --> 29:50.920]  Well, this is a little confusing, and hopefully we can sort some of this out.
[29:51.060 --> 30:09.580]  But there is legislation that Obama supports that basically takes the government out of the business of bulk collection, leaving that data in the hands of private telecommunication firms and available for searches when there is a court order of one sort or another.
[30:09.980 --> 30:14.900]  But the Senate wasn't able to overcome a filibuster against that bill, so that bill is dead.
[30:14.960 --> 30:20.300]  Now, would that have been a better bill, or is that just basically changing the people that spy on you?
[30:20.480 --> 30:24.820]  I mean, without real oversight of the intelligence communities, there's no way to know.
[30:27.040 --> 30:35.920]  The law, the Patriot Act, we did not know was being used to justify this kind of bulk collection until Snowden told us all.
[30:37.000 --> 30:41.040]  The NSA's interpretations of the laws are not public.
[30:41.040 --> 30:45.820]  The NSA's interpretation of this new law would not be public until the next whistleblower.
[30:46.320 --> 30:55.860]  So, and not that I really trust the telephone companies with my data anyway, but it's impossible to say whether this would be an improvement or not until we get some real oversight.
[30:56.020 --> 30:59.840]  You see, you know, I know nobody read the Patriot Act before they passed it.
[30:59.900 --> 31:00.360]  I know that.
[31:00.540 --> 31:03.080]  But we've had plenty of time to look it over since then.
[31:03.560 --> 31:11.020]  Is it not possible that somebody would be able to interpret without Edward Snowden that this could be used in this particular way?
[31:11.100 --> 31:18.700]  It just seems like we didn't know that it was being used in this particular way until Snowden told us, but isn't it obvious that they're going to take whatever they can get?
[31:18.940 --> 31:21.820]  I mean, but it's impossible to know what they think they can get.
[31:22.600 --> 31:26.420]  The sheer difficulty level of it is so easy to give up rights.
[31:26.420 --> 31:33.940]  It is so easy to let the powers that be encroach upon the rights that they have and gather more and make things more difficult for everyone else.
[31:34.020 --> 31:37.620]  But it is so, so difficult in comparison to ever get any of those rights back.
[31:38.460 --> 31:46.580]  When September 11, 2001 happened, we were sold so many bad situations just basically on the basis that, oh, this is just for now.
[31:46.760 --> 31:49.040]  Oh, this is, you know, because things are extraordinary now.
[31:49.180 --> 31:50.720]  But they never stopped being extraordinary.
[31:51.480 --> 31:54.600]  They never stopped doing what they were doing.
[31:54.760 --> 31:58.000]  And now it looks like maybe that's a possibility at some point.
[31:58.140 --> 32:01.680]  Bernie, I share your concern about supporting Rand Paul.
[32:01.780 --> 32:04.540]  I find myself agreeing with him more often than not lately.
[32:04.700 --> 32:09.680]  And I, you know, I actually have an appointment with a therapist about this because it's bothering me a lot.
[32:10.480 --> 32:13.680]  He lately said something today, actually.
[32:13.680 --> 32:16.860]  he's blaming Republicans for ISIS.
[32:17.460 --> 32:17.660]  Yeah.
[32:18.020 --> 32:31.980]  Now, basically, what they said, what they have been saying, people like Lindsey Graham and John McCain, they've been saying that America's failure to arm moderate rebel groups in Syria created space for the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria to grow.
[32:32.600 --> 32:35.200]  Rand Paul says, I'd say it's exactly the opposite.
[32:35.400 --> 32:42.980]  ISIS exists and grew stronger because of the hawks in our party who gave arms indiscriminately, and most of those arms were snatched up by ISIS.
[32:43.220 --> 32:48.360]  It's what people have been saying for a while, and we saw a student in Florida say this recently, that George W.
[32:48.360 --> 32:49.300]  Bush created ISIS.
[32:49.500 --> 32:53.380]  And wow, this guy is actually saying this, and he's a politician.
[32:53.900 --> 32:55.020]  I'm having a lot of trouble.
[32:55.200 --> 32:56.780]  I mean, Mike?
[32:56.780 --> 32:59.620]  I mean, don't worry, there's still plenty of things he does that are awful, but...
[32:59.620 --> 33:00.920]  Yeah, he better get to it, though.
[33:01.960 --> 33:06.400]  I'm really encouraged, though, by the bipartisan support for ending the Patriot Act.
[33:06.600 --> 33:13.460]  It's actually not a majority, but they don't have the majority that they would, the super majority that would be needed to renew the Patriot Act.
[33:13.960 --> 33:21.180]  But I'm encouraged that people of both parties are realizing, even at the highest levels of power, that this is not what people want.
[33:21.880 --> 33:26.760]  It's a great discussion, but let's bear in mind, I mean, you don't fix a systemic surveillance.
[33:27.360 --> 33:29.400]  set up like this with a politician.
[33:29.720 --> 33:31.640]  I mean, they're not the answer, necessarily.
[33:31.640 --> 33:44.160]  It's great that they're aligned and understand the issue, but again, as I said, it's going to be a much, much longer and nuanced fight than I think we're thinking about right now.
[33:44.640 --> 33:45.180]  All right.
[33:45.240 --> 33:48.660]  Well, what's going to happen is Sunday, this will expire.
[33:48.660 --> 33:51.000]  I don't think they're going to pass anything before that.
[33:51.200 --> 33:55.200]  And at least on paper, their surveillance has to stop.
[33:55.360 --> 33:56.540]  Am I reading that correctly?
[33:56.900 --> 34:14.420]  Yeah, and that was the point of Rand Paul's filibuster, as I understand, to push it a week, because that is the hard date that it was to be discontinued, and they now do not have the rolling reauthorizations.
[34:14.840 --> 34:15.040]  Okay.
[34:15.550 --> 34:16.960]  Bernie, do you agree with that assessment?
[34:17.840 --> 34:19.480]  Yeah, that sounds like what's going on.
[34:20.000 --> 34:24.480]  It's going to be interesting watching over the next Watch Your C-SPAN for the next few days.
[34:24.480 --> 34:28.780]  It's going to be some exciting stuff about spying on us on C-SPAN.
[34:29.540 --> 34:33.380]  Yes, and C-SPAN is always a lot of fun to watch in times like this.
[34:33.630 --> 34:35.320]  Hey, I got some news just in.
[34:35.320 --> 34:37.130]  The Hacker Combo GIF sets are gone.
[34:37.820 --> 34:38.260]  Really?
[34:38.380 --> 34:38.880]  We sold out?
[34:39.000 --> 34:39.960]  They're all gone, all sold out.
[34:40.260 --> 34:41.040]  That's awesome.
[34:41.190 --> 34:48.880]  Yeah, and people are also pledging for Rob's paintings as well, but right now that's all we have left, at least as far as hacker-related things.
[34:49.460 --> 34:51.020]  212-209-2950.
[34:51.020 --> 34:52.570]  Rob, you want to describe it one more time?
[34:53.210 --> 34:53.880]  Yes, indeed.
[34:53.920 --> 35:07.480]  It'll be a 5x7 painting on stretched canvas of a luminary from the hacker world, the sorts of people that we name rooms after at Hope, the sorts of people that have had some lasting effect on the hacker world as it stands today.
[35:07.920 --> 35:13.840]  You will be getting one of these paintings, an original painting, not a print, not a copy, not anything mass-produced like that.
[35:13.840 --> 35:16.540]  It will be the actual painting that I create with my hands for you.
[35:16.860 --> 35:27.440]  And that is just for a pledge of $50, which I should point out is probably less than I would actually sell these paintings for if I were dealing them as a working artist, which I am.
[35:27.570 --> 35:35.300]  So I'm actually, not only am I donating these to the station, but you can now get one for less than you would get one from me in any other context.
[35:35.570 --> 35:47.380]  So call 212-209-2950 or go to give, the numeral 2, WBAI.org, and find the Hacker Luminary painting for a pledge of $50 or more.
[35:47.540 --> 35:51.280]  If that doesn't interest you, there are other premiums that the station has for you.
[35:51.340 --> 35:56.680]  You could go to give to WBAI.org or call 212-209-2950.
[35:57.120 --> 36:04.120]  Make sure you indicate off the hook as the show you're supporting, and you can get some WBAI premiums that they have available.
[36:04.540 --> 36:10.900]  And I just want to remind people that every pledge over, what, 25 makes you a voting member of Pacifica?
[36:11.440 --> 36:18.460]  And a voting member of BAI, and all the donations are tax-advocable donations, because we're a non-profit here.
[36:18.500 --> 36:23.550]  Bernie, you always have the ability to get people to call in just by saying a few words, so I'm going to give you that opportunity now.
[36:24.090 --> 36:29.020]  I'm going to say that one of these original paintings by Rob T.
[36:29.140 --> 36:35.520]  Firefly, called Luminaries of the Hacker World, will look great on the wall of your home.
[36:35.880 --> 36:44.960]  And you can sit there and look at it while you're listening to WBAI and thinking that that the BAI gave you this gift, courtesy of Rob T.
[36:45.050 --> 36:47.120]  Firefly, just for keeping the station on the air.
[36:47.260 --> 36:52.180]  So you can experience that yourself by calling 212-209-2950.
[36:52.180 --> 36:54.260]  Appreciate some great Hacker artwork.
[36:54.550 --> 36:56.340]  Keep this radio station on the air.
[36:56.660 --> 37:00.140]  Support this Hacker Radio show and feel really good about it.
[37:00.240 --> 37:02.300]  212-209-2950.
[37:03.440 --> 37:03.920]  Okay.
[37:04.040 --> 37:07.000]  And I'm sure that resulted in a whole flurry of calls coming in.
[37:07.120 --> 37:07.720]  Thanks, Bernie.
[37:08.040 --> 37:16.900]  Now, okay, we have other news items to discuss as well, because we were not on last week, and that means that, well, we don't get to talk about certain things.
[37:17.520 --> 37:18.700]  There is the story.
[37:18.880 --> 37:25.120]  We were talking about hacking airplanes, and this story really has grown some legs and tentacles and all sorts of other things.
[37:26.120 --> 37:29.220]  You heard about this guy, Chris Roberts, a security researcher.
[37:29.240 --> 37:41.440]  He was pulled off a United plane earlier in the year for making a, some might say, a tasteless tweet about the possibilities of him hacking into the entertainment system and causing all kinds of mayhem with the airplane itself.
[37:41.440 --> 37:41.570]  awful.
[37:42.050 --> 37:58.570]  Get this, he, in addition to saying that he could hack the passenger entertainment system, in an interview with an FBI special agent, he basically said that he did a bit more than that.
[37:58.720 --> 38:06.340]  He stated he caused one of the airplane engines to climb, resulting in a lateral or sideways movement of the plane during one of the flights.
[38:07.160 --> 38:18.820]  He basically went on to say he hacked into planes between 15 and 20 times over several years via the in-flight entertainment system using modified cables and his laptop.
[38:19.170 --> 38:25.570]  On one occasion, he apparently gained direct control of one of the engines and made the plane move sideways.
[38:25.570 --> 38:30.460]  Now, a lot of people, myself included, are casting doubts over these claims.
[38:30.550 --> 38:33.720]  It doesn't seem likely or possible.
[38:34.020 --> 38:45.500]  There's a post on the aviation industry website known as Runway Girl Network, points out that Boeing says entertainment systems are isolated from flight and navigation systems on commercial aircraft.
[38:46.040 --> 39:06.500]  Industry expert Peter Lemme said the IFE A-RINK 429 interfaces are not capable of changing automatic flight control modes and the claim that the thrust management system mode was changed without a command from the pilot through the mode control panel or while coupled to the flight management system is inconceivable.
[39:07.280 --> 39:13.220]  Industry consultant Michael Planey also said given Robert's alleged method of access, the story seems suspect.
[39:13.480 --> 39:21.040]  We've seen multiple instances of passengers being restrained by fellow passengers or flights diverted because of passengers behaving abnormally.
[39:21.090 --> 39:31.800]  I find it nearly impossible to believe Robert's could have done this type of an act, you know, rewiring things and plugging in cables on the airplane over a dozen times, never had a flight crew or fellow passenger notice.
[39:32.000 --> 39:33.820]  That part stretches the imagination.
[39:34.540 --> 39:41.940]  Now, furthermore, he says in the event that what he claims about monkeying with the thrust management system occurred, that would have been noted by the flight crew.
[39:42.020 --> 39:44.920]  They would have noticed the aircraft was moving not by command from the cockpit.
[39:45.040 --> 39:49.820]  There would have been many ways in engine monitoring and flight control management systems to detect this sort of event.
[39:50.020 --> 39:53.260]  I would have expected the pilots would have written it up and there would have been an investigation.
[39:53.260 --> 39:56.070]  So I don't believe what he says to be true.
[39:56.260 --> 40:11.260]  Now, you add in something else, which came out afterwards, and apparently there is footage of this guy speaking at a conference called Gurkhan and claiming that he was able to hack the space station.
[40:11.460 --> 40:19.700]  During a question and answer portion of a talk of his, he told the audience that he got in trouble for playing with the space station, but said the experience was quite fun.
[40:19.780 --> 40:26.050]  We got yelled at by NASA, but if they're going to leave open stuff that's not encrypted, that's their own damn silly fault.
[40:26.200 --> 40:35.840]  He also claimed to have started to investigate the possibility of hacking the Curiosity rover, which landed on the surface of Mars in August of 2012 and taking it for a spin.
[40:36.300 --> 40:42.160]  But Roberts and his team ultimately decided to pull the plug on that particular adventure.
[40:42.720 --> 40:49.240]  Now he is saying that his comments have been totally taken out of context and misinterpreted.
[40:49.480 --> 40:50.480]  I don't know.
[40:50.700 --> 40:54.380]  How do you even approach something like this?
[40:54.440 --> 40:59.840]  When you make these outrageous claims, can you really say that they're being taken out of context?
[41:00.120 --> 41:00.480]  Rob?
[41:00.920 --> 41:02.960]  Actually, it's time I came clean, you guys.
[41:03.200 --> 41:04.720]  He didn't move the airplane.
[41:04.860 --> 41:10.020]  What I did is I had called up the airline and I started whistling into the telephone and that made the plane do some loop-de-loop.
[41:10.140 --> 41:11.180]  So actually, it's all my fault.
[41:11.240 --> 41:11.590]  I'm sorry.
[41:12.020 --> 41:17.090]  I mean, to be clear, you're joking and I think our listeners are smart enough to tell the difference.
[41:17.260 --> 41:23.960]  This guy is maybe a little more subtle if he's joking or lying or whatever.
[41:25.380 --> 41:27.540]  What kind of joke is that do you tell to a special agent?
[41:27.590 --> 41:29.000]  Yeah, I made the plane fly sideways.
[41:29.220 --> 41:30.800]  I mean, I just don't get what kind of joke that is.
[41:31.070 --> 41:32.380]  Yeah, I mean, we'll see.
[41:32.520 --> 41:37.740]  The more I read about this story, the less I understand what's going on, if he was actually able to do anything at all or not.
[41:37.920 --> 41:45.200]  I will say the one thing the so-called expert said that passengers would instantly notice if he was doing this.
[41:45.680 --> 41:50.260]  People don't understand that what hacking looks like is people sitting at a computer and typing.
[41:50.940 --> 41:54.340]  There's no way that passengers would notice on that level.
[41:54.640 --> 41:55.380]  I agree.
[41:55.620 --> 41:56.000]  That's not what he said.
[41:56.050 --> 42:00.500]  He said he used modified cables and like overrode that he plugged into something on the airplane.
[42:00.740 --> 42:02.780]  You know, it was something that obviously would look weird.
[42:02.980 --> 42:07.860]  It seems vaguely possible that he could do that without anyone in the cabin noticing.
[42:08.550 --> 42:12.800]  But I think someone would notice if planes suddenly started going off course.
[42:12.980 --> 42:24.000]  And to be clear, if anyone wants my ethical opinion, do not experiment with planes in flight, especially if you're on them, but even if you're not, that seems not that nice.
[42:24.000 --> 42:32.380]  My suspicion is that this guy has had enough of the media circus and it's just basically telling them all kinds of nonsense.
[42:32.820 --> 42:36.480]  Unfortunately, he's also telling that to investigators, which could get him in a lot of trouble.
[42:36.620 --> 42:47.620]  But I think, you know, maybe he's a bit prone to exaggeration or maybe even not having a grasp on reality, what is actually possible, what he's doing.
[42:47.780 --> 42:48.520]  I don't know.
[42:48.620 --> 42:50.780]  It's hard to say without having an actual conversation.
[42:51.980 --> 42:57.460]  And I guess we can invite him to come on the show if he wants to clear up this, these distortions that are being spread by the media.
[42:57.620 --> 43:00.840]  Just let's talk, you know, directly so that there's no distortion.
[43:01.550 --> 43:01.920]  Kyle?
[43:02.090 --> 43:22.980]  I think one of the most interesting things about this story is the use of a real-time operating system and also some of the other writing from that talk at Gurkhan that he spoke about was things like trying to break or get deeply in through, like, wireless,
[43:23.240 --> 43:24.880]  which would not include a lot of cables.
[43:25.260 --> 43:28.120]  He speaks about go-go in-flight internet and stuff like that.
[43:28.380 --> 43:33.320]  But maybe modified USB, because a lot of the in-flight entertainment systems have USB.
[43:33.700 --> 43:39.900]  But again, the dubiousness based on, like, what Boeing is saying and other things make it kind of a crazy story.
[43:39.900 --> 43:48.660]  And that's why I say just the use of VXWorks or, like, real-time operating systems, that's probably, like, the most interesting part about this to me.
[43:49.680 --> 43:52.000]  I would like to put it out there.
[43:52.080 --> 43:54.860]  I mean, none of us on the show, I think, are expert aviators.
[43:55.100 --> 43:57.240]  So I think maybe we have some as listeners.
[43:57.240 --> 44:03.740]  So if you know something about this, if maybe you work with this stuff or you work with airline equipment, get in touch with us.
[44:03.760 --> 44:06.020]  Let us know what you think about all of this with your expert opinion.
[44:06.180 --> 44:07.740]  OTH at 2600.com.
[44:07.740 --> 44:10.940]  And please go easy on us, because we don't know what we're talking about, and we know it.
[44:11.000 --> 44:12.920]  And we're willing to admit that to anybody.
[44:13.420 --> 44:14.680]  But I'll say this.
[44:14.800 --> 44:22.280]  If what Chris Roberts says is true, if what he was able to do actually even remotely is possible, that is a huge scandal.
[44:22.320 --> 44:27.820]  And every airline in the world needs to shut down until they fix this, because you can't have people doing that.
[44:27.880 --> 44:44.620]  That's ridiculously stupid to have access to, even through all kinds of hoops and ladders and things like that, to have that kind of access, either on the internet or through an entertainment system, anything other than right there in the cockpit, is madness,
[44:44.680 --> 44:45.020]  I think.
[44:45.140 --> 44:46.640]  Now, Bernie, I know you have something to say about this.
[44:47.320 --> 45:00.520]  Yeah, well, if he actually, if any part of what he said is true, then he will almost certainly be charged with felony of accessing certain types of computers without authorization.
[45:00.840 --> 45:06.940]  But if he's lying about it, then he would be probably charged with committing the felony of lying to a federal law enforcement officer.
[45:07.080 --> 45:09.220]  So, either way, this guy is probably in trouble.
[45:10.440 --> 45:17.980]  If he is really finding real vulnerabilities and making the public aware of that, I hand it to him.
[45:18.020 --> 45:19.360]  This might not be the best way to do it.
[45:19.460 --> 45:26.220]  But there will surely be an investigation, and we will see something come of this, especially if he's indicted.
[45:26.480 --> 45:27.940]  Because I would love to read...
[45:27.940 --> 45:29.880]  Federal indictments are really interesting to read.
[45:30.000 --> 45:30.940]  There's a lot between the lines.
[45:31.680 --> 45:39.840]  Well, Bernie, if there is truth in this, I don't think he should get in trouble for that, because, obviously, he didn't do anything horrible.
[45:40.680 --> 45:47.780]  I do think he should have told people, if that is the case, a lot sooner than this, that, oh, yeah, by the way, we can control airplanes this way.
[45:48.760 --> 45:50.160]  Again, I have such strong doubts.
[45:50.340 --> 45:55.460]  I mean, the whole space station thing right there tells me that he's prone to exaggeration a bit.
[45:55.680 --> 45:59.740]  But the real issue here is that the media has latched onto this like nobody's business.
[45:59.960 --> 46:09.540]  I mean, it's on every single newscast and newspaper, and it's causing a bit of a panic and also a bit of a backlash against hackers, because, well, who else is going to do this?
[46:09.660 --> 46:11.720]  Certainly no criminals, certainly no government, but hackers.
[46:11.880 --> 46:13.040]  They're the evil ones.
[46:13.620 --> 46:16.740]  We see this constantly with all sorts of different stories.
[46:16.860 --> 46:20.640]  There's a story about an app in China.
[46:20.840 --> 46:28.720]  A team of Chinese researchers have developed software that tracks people riding the subway using a smartphone's motion sensor data.
[46:28.960 --> 46:35.900]  They claim the system can pinpoint anyone's location to an accuracy of 92% without ever having to tap into the phone's GPS system.
[46:36.800 --> 46:43.240]  The software works because every underground and subway line in the world moves in its own unique way, which I find fascinating right there.
[46:43.920 --> 46:54.020]  A smartphone's accelerometer can be hacked if the user downloads a malicious app that gives access to the phone's motion sensors.
[46:54.700 --> 47:07.000]  So they jump from this app being developed to the conclusion that using a database of how subways around the world move, hackers can then use the motion data to know which city you're in and what line you're taking.
[47:07.140 --> 47:15.140]  So right away in this article, this was in a Daily Mail in the UK, right away the biggest threat, not governments, not evil people that could use this.
[47:15.240 --> 47:16.520]  No, hackers, they're the threat.
[47:16.780 --> 47:18.700]  Why would a government want to spy on you?
[47:18.840 --> 47:20.620]  It's those nasty hackers.
[47:20.760 --> 47:22.020]  They're the ones that are invading your privacy.
[47:22.020 --> 47:23.420]  This is what we see constantly.
[47:23.480 --> 47:29.160]  Every single time we are demonized in the media in this way, we become the main thread.
[47:29.280 --> 47:30.100]  And that's just wrong.
[47:30.260 --> 47:30.620]  Mike?
[47:30.740 --> 47:34.740]  I mean, it seems very specialized to do this kind of thing maliciously.
[47:34.860 --> 47:36.660]  It's fascinating technology if it works.
[47:36.800 --> 47:37.980]  I want to learn more about it.
[47:38.100 --> 47:47.700]  But to do this kind of thing maliciously seems entirely unnecessary when every cell phone is so much better at spying on you in so many other ways, even if you don't take the subway.
[47:47.920 --> 47:48.580]  Yes, absolutely.
[47:49.120 --> 47:52.460]  And I think this app was developed as a service.
[47:52.620 --> 47:55.560]  And they're just talking about it as a bad thing.
[47:55.760 --> 47:59.860]  So anything involving tracking, it's not hackers that are doing the tracking.
[48:00.100 --> 48:02.880]  I mean, you don't really have to read many newspapers to realize that.
[48:03.660 --> 48:08.200]  So think about who the true threats are before taking these things seriously.
[48:09.060 --> 48:14.040]  Speaking of cell phones, okay, you know, this story just came out today.
[48:14.200 --> 48:20.500]  Apparently, you can crash any Apple iPhone just by sending out a 75-byte character string.
[48:21.320 --> 48:23.960]  Yeah, it has Arabic text in it, but that's not the issue.
[48:24.080 --> 48:24.800]  People calm down.
[48:24.980 --> 48:25.900]  It's got nothing to do with that.
[48:26.000 --> 48:36.660]  It just has to do with the fact that those characters cause an app or a process known as Cortex to access memory that is invalid.
[48:36.660 --> 48:45.580]  That forces the operating system to kill off the currently running program, which could be your text message app, your terminal, or maybe even the operating system itself.
[48:46.640 --> 48:47.440]  Or a phone call.
[48:47.500 --> 48:47.960]  Or what?
[48:48.160 --> 48:48.680]  Or a phone call.
[48:48.680 --> 48:49.340]  Or a phone call, too.
[48:49.380 --> 48:52.540]  Yeah, so I have the text right in front of me.
[48:52.880 --> 48:59.060]  I don't know, do you need to type out the word effective power like this, or is that just somebody saying that this gives you effective power?
[48:59.320 --> 49:01.360]  It doesn't seem like that would be a part of...
[49:01.360 --> 49:07.420]  I mean, my understanding is it's about the character count and the stuff sort of at the end, so you can probably write whatever you want at the beginning.
[49:08.160 --> 49:10.880]  I don't 100% understand, but that's my belief.
[49:11.000 --> 49:13.660]  Well, do you understand how to get these characters to show up on your phone?
[49:13.780 --> 49:14.420]  Can you do that?
[49:14.660 --> 49:20.660]  You probably install an Arabic keyboard, or more easily, you just find the text somewhere on the internet and copy and paste it.
[49:20.700 --> 49:21.180]  Okay, we have 10 minutes to go.
[49:21.320 --> 49:28.100]  Could you do that before the show so we can send a text message to a friend that we have with an iPhone and just see how he reacts to this?
[49:28.780 --> 49:31.320]  I can't do it in 10 minutes, because I don't speak Arabic.
[49:31.460 --> 49:32.000]  I don't recognize...
[49:32.000 --> 49:32.620]  Can't or won't?
[49:32.620 --> 49:36.000]  I can't do it, but I cut off all ties with friends that have iPhones.
[49:36.300 --> 49:36.800]  Oh, yeah.
[49:37.060 --> 49:38.040]  There's a lot of that going on.
[49:38.140 --> 49:38.960]  Well, you know, here's the thing.
[49:39.120 --> 49:44.160]  But given 10 minutes and the internet where I can find this text and copy and paste it, that's easy.
[49:44.220 --> 49:45.860]  Well, you know, the personal computer show comes on after us.
[49:45.900 --> 49:49.320]  I think they might have an iPhone, so we could just sort of listen to the radio and see what happens.
[49:50.880 --> 49:52.320]  No, no, we're not going to do that.
[49:52.780 --> 49:53.260]  We know better.
[49:53.420 --> 49:55.820]  And I'm sure Apple, by the way, will fix this bug in short.
[49:55.820 --> 50:04.640]  Yeah, but the fact that a bug like this exists in the first place, that it's actually possible to crash an entire phone just by sending a particular string of characters.
[50:04.800 --> 50:05.120]  Wow.
[50:05.220 --> 50:07.720]  I mean, we have so far to go, don't we?
[50:09.120 --> 50:11.240]  How did it take so long for someone to figure this out?
[50:11.380 --> 50:14.240]  I think it's a new bug in a new version of the operating system.
[50:14.260 --> 50:15.660]  Oh, so this won't work on an old iPhone?
[50:16.280 --> 50:18.700]  Again, I don't 100% understand, but I think that's true.
[50:19.320 --> 50:21.860]  Fortunately, nobody here knows Arabic, so we can't tell you what the characters are.
[50:22.310 --> 50:26.600]  Even if we knew Arabic, I think there's some Asian characters in here as well, some other Asian characters.
[50:26.780 --> 50:27.460]  Is that Thai?
[50:27.640 --> 50:28.840]  I don't know what characters those are.
[50:29.420 --> 50:31.060]  I've never seen characters like that before.
[50:31.060 --> 50:31.660]  There's a letter H.
[50:31.720 --> 50:32.400]  I recognize that.
[50:32.520 --> 50:32.760]  Uh-huh.
[50:33.480 --> 50:33.860]  All right.
[50:33.980 --> 50:38.640]  Well, we're going to look into that some more, but follow the story, too, because it's an awful lot of fun.
[50:38.660 --> 50:43.660]  Hey, we have only a few minutes left, and we need to have a lot of people calling in, and that's really good to see.
[50:43.740 --> 50:46.560]  We've had well over a dozen people calling in right now.
[50:46.560 --> 50:51.000]  Um, 212-209-2950 is the number to call.
[50:51.200 --> 50:57.300]  Right now, the only premium we have left is the, uh, the, uh, luminary, uh, what's the actual legal title for it?
[50:57.460 --> 50:57.860]  Luminaries?
[50:58.160 --> 51:00.020]  The Luminaries of the Hacker World painting.
[51:00.220 --> 51:02.420]  And what that is, is a painting that Rob T.
[51:02.560 --> 51:08.360]  Firefly will make specially for you and send to you of a luminary in the hacker world.
[51:08.460 --> 51:10.880]  Do you want to give some examples maybe of who that could entail?
[51:11.420 --> 51:15.340]  Um, well, there are people that, uh, you, you may have seen, uh, rooms named after at Hope.
[51:15.340 --> 51:30.880]  People like, uh, Grace Hopper, Frank Olson, uh, Nikola Tesla, um, Lady Ada, um, all, all sorts of, uh, just interesting people from, from the past and from, uh, from the worlds of technology and hacking and innovation and, uh, doing interesting things with stuff.
[51:32.480 --> 51:37.360]  And, uh, these, these, uh, these people will be, one of these people will be, uh, on a portrait for you.
[51:37.360 --> 51:44.720]  Um, if you pledge at least $50, uh, 212-209-2950 or give the numeral to wbai.org.
[51:44.860 --> 51:49.600]  Um, if you'd like to see some of my other artwork, uh, get a feel for what you might be getting, go to robvincent.net.
[51:49.760 --> 51:53.400]  There's a bunch of, uh, my past paintings up on the front page for you to peruse.
[51:54.000 --> 51:56.800]  And, uh, you know, support our show, support our station.
[51:57.100 --> 51:59.520]  Uh, any pledge over $25 makes you a member of BAI.
[51:59.520 --> 52:02.420]  You will get a say in where the station goes from here.
[52:02.760 --> 52:09.640]  Um, and really you'll be, you'll be, you'll be, uh, giving yourself the gift of this, uh, of this station and this venue.
[52:09.820 --> 52:12.160]  212-209-2950.
[52:12.720 --> 52:15.040]  And, uh, it's, it's such an amazing thing to get.
[52:15.040 --> 52:22.200]  You can frame this, you can hang it on your wall and, uh, you know, Rob is going places and the painting is going to be worth something someday.
[52:22.380 --> 52:29.640]  And, you know, even, even if, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's a, it's a painting that doesn't gain any value over the next few years.
[52:29.760 --> 52:34.300]  And I think it will, uh, just having that, having something that speaks to the hacker community.
[52:34.300 --> 52:36.640]  And if you are listening to the show, you have an interest in that.
[52:37.040 --> 52:41.820]  What a great way to have that, um, uh, just an, in an artistic way reminding you.
[52:42.220 --> 52:48.880]  And, uh, given, given my, uh, current rates for this sort of thing on a commercial level, it's already worth when you get it more than I think you'll be donating to the station.
[52:49.100 --> 52:51.860]  212-209-2950 is our phone number.
[52:52.730 --> 52:55.440]  Um, yeah, go ahead.
[52:55.680 --> 52:55.920]  Okay.
[52:56.040 --> 52:56.500]  Sorry, I forgot.
[52:56.880 --> 52:59.920]  I mean, it's, it's really generous of Rob to paint these paintings.
[53:00.160 --> 53:06.420]  It's really generous of you, our listeners, to pledge and support us to keep us on the air, to keep this station on the air.
[53:07.270 --> 53:10.480]  And you have only a few minutes left, I think, to get this.
[53:10.720 --> 53:12.500]  212-209-2950.
[53:13.120 --> 53:14.600]  We really appreciate the support.
[53:14.700 --> 53:20.780]  If you think that $50 is too little for an original work of art, which frankly I do, then you can, of course, pledge more.
[53:20.960 --> 53:21.600]  That would be great.
[53:21.800 --> 53:22.520]  We can get two of them.
[53:23.040 --> 53:23.760]  Can you do that?
[53:23.860 --> 53:24.180]  Why not?
[53:24.180 --> 53:24.580]  All right.
[53:25.300 --> 53:29.580]  I don't know exactly if you'd, if you'd pledge a hundred or if you'd call twice, but they'd work it out.
[53:29.800 --> 53:29.920]  Yeah.
[53:30.140 --> 53:42.060]  So 212-209-2950 is the number to call to show your support for this station and get, of course, every pledge gets the most important premium of all, which is knowing you support the station and keeping us on the air.
[53:42.180 --> 53:42.340]  Okay.
[53:42.380 --> 53:43.620]  Kyle's train has gotten back on the track.
[53:43.620 --> 53:44.860]  So, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[53:45.320 --> 53:55.680]  I just want to say now more than ever, the station needs your help because we're in a new facility, we're building, we have all kinds of plans and architects and, and, uh, iron workers.
[53:55.940 --> 53:57.360]  Everybody's here, you know.
[53:57.360 --> 53:58.760]  There were firemen downstairs before.
[53:59.100 --> 53:59.740]  Yeah, yeah.
[53:59.920 --> 54:01.940]  It's, it's, it's, there's concrete mixers.
[54:02.100 --> 54:08.080]  It's a really big operation to get a radio studio going in, in this era that we live in.
[54:08.160 --> 54:10.120]  And this area too, because it's really cool.
[54:10.280 --> 54:16.820]  It is a cool area, but no, I mean, we really, this transition, we have cleared up a lot of things.
[54:16.980 --> 54:19.300]  We've moved from, uh, from wall street.
[54:19.480 --> 54:23.840]  There's so many pivotal, uh, uh, milestones that we've gotten past.
[54:24.000 --> 54:28.760]  And the next big thing really is an actual awesome studio here in Brooklyn.
[54:28.760 --> 54:29.980]  And this is a great building.
[54:30.120 --> 54:31.240]  There's great people here.
[54:31.460 --> 54:33.600]  Uh, a lot of the staff is adjusting.
[54:33.880 --> 54:41.760]  We're, we're, we're getting a lot better at, at doing what we do, uh, and cohabitating with our, with our lovely, uh, administration, uh, team.
[54:42.060 --> 54:54.700]  And, uh, all of us are really excited, but getting to that next phase of, of, uh, a real awesome studio and, and new possibilities for the station and the community that we're going to be building here, uh, we need your support.
[54:54.840 --> 55:01.620]  So please call in and, and, uh, get, get one of these, uh, uh, framed pictures or, or donate at any other pledge level.
[55:01.620 --> 55:03.540]  It really does matter a lot right now.
[55:03.660 --> 55:07.200]  2-1-2-2-0-9-2-9-5-0 is our phone number.
[55:07.580 --> 55:09.180]  Uh, we're pretty much out of time.
[55:09.340 --> 55:12.880]  Any, uh, any closing business, uh, Bernie, are you going to stay out of trouble in the post office?
[55:13.500 --> 55:14.340]  I will try.
[55:14.520 --> 55:15.040]  I will try.
[55:15.200 --> 55:15.440]  All right.
[55:15.560 --> 55:15.680]  Good.
[55:15.960 --> 55:16.160]  Rob?
[55:16.520 --> 55:22.140]  Just a big thank you to everyone who's pledged so far, especially those of you who pledged for all the hacker combo gift sets that we've had.
[55:22.360 --> 55:22.820]  Yeah, they're gone.
[55:22.960 --> 55:23.960]  They're, they're totally gone.
[55:24.120 --> 55:27.860]  And, uh, we are so, we are so grateful for you to, that, uh, you've taken those up.
[55:28.260 --> 55:44.500]  You know, Bernie, you should print out the, the law about photographing the post office, put it in a clear acrylic envelope, and then pay the postage for that to get sent, and then ask them to take a photo of the clear acrylic envelope with the actual law and all the postage on it.
[55:44.780 --> 55:45.000]  No.
[55:45.360 --> 55:48.460]  And, and who will we have to replace Bernie in the weeks ahead?
[55:49.120 --> 55:53.440]  Uh, no, Bernie, my idea would be to actually print out that law and take a picture of that in the lobby of the post office.
[55:53.720 --> 55:54.480]  How about that?
[55:54.640 --> 55:56.960]  This seems like a way to get Bernie's photo in the post office.
[55:57.360 --> 55:59.040]  Yeah, that would definitely be a threat, I think.
[55:59.320 --> 56:04.260]  Yeah, you'll be wanted before you know it, and for all kinds of speaking engagements in the postal world.
[56:04.800 --> 56:07.220]  All right, well, that's just kind of what we do.
[56:07.380 --> 56:09.680]  We question authority, and sometimes we get into a lot of trouble for it.
[56:10.420 --> 56:16.980]  Patriot Act, let's keep track of that story, because that's something that's going to be happening over the weeks, months, years ahead.
[56:17.500 --> 56:18.740]  And we have an outro.
[56:18.740 --> 56:21.060]  We have an outro having to do with the Patriot Act.
[56:21.180 --> 56:24.600]  There's a bunch of those you can find if you look around on the Internet, and here's just one of them.
[56:24.720 --> 56:25.240]  Have a good night.
[56:29.400 --> 56:30.620]  Okay, it didn't play for some reason.
[56:30.660 --> 56:31.520]  Oh, you know why it didn't play?
[56:31.580 --> 56:32.620]  Because I didn't hit that button.
[56:32.700 --> 56:32.960]  Hold on.
[56:33.540 --> 56:34.340]  I'm going to go back and hit that button.
[56:34.400 --> 56:43.980]  But it gives me an opportunity to give out the email address, OTH at 2600.com, and also to say 212-209-2950 is the number to call to pledge.
[56:44.460 --> 56:45.120]  Have a good night.
[56:49.370 --> 56:54.050]  The Patriot Act is good for amoebas.
[56:54.850 --> 56:58.250]  It's good for the creatures that swim in the sea.
[56:59.710 --> 57:11.190]  It's good for the lobsters, the sharks, and the mobsters, but the Patriot Act don't do nothing for me.
[57:13.650 --> 57:23.310]  You can long for the days of Joseph McCarthy, the Salem witch trials may entice and attract.
[57:23.870 --> 57:33.210]  But when Big Brother looks at your library books, you know that you're blessed with the Patriot Act.
[57:33.210 --> 57:39.530]  The Patriot Act is good for shape-shifting reptoids.
[57:39.850 --> 57:44.150]  It's good for the Martians and good for E.T.
[57:45.290 --> 57:55.170]  It's good for the germs and the worms, but in fact, the Patriot Act don't do nothing.
[57:55.170 --> 58:02.910]  No, no, no, no, don't do nothing for me.
[58:06.910 --> 58:20.890]  Consider becoming a BAI buddy during the month of May and receive a special gift from WBAI, a DVD of the film Zipper, Coney Island's Last Big Ride.
[58:21.030 --> 58:22.770]  Directed by Amy Nicholson.