[00:00.000 --> 00:07.240]  Doing the two things that I think are the most central aims of good journalism, which is to give voice to the voiceless and hold those in power accountable.
[00:10.140 --> 00:12.420]  WBAI, your community alternative.
[00:13.420 --> 00:17.600]  Children, this is Reverend Billy from the Church of Stop Shopping.
[00:17.920 --> 00:24.620]  You're listening to WBAI FM 99.5 New York City.
[00:24.660 --> 00:26.980]  It's listener-sponsored, children.
[00:27.240 --> 00:28.660]  It's commercial-free.
[00:30.000 --> 00:31.860]  Ooh, change-a-loo-ya!
[00:33.380 --> 00:34.600]  Thank you, Reverend Billy.
[00:35.060 --> 00:43.740]  And you are listening to WBAI New York, where the time is just about 7 o'clock p.m., and it's time for another exciting edition of Off the Hook.
[00:48.860 --> 00:50.360]  That's the rumor, anyway.
[00:50.520 --> 00:51.000]  That is the rumor.
[00:51.440 --> 00:52.980]  Do we not have the theme song?
[00:53.180 --> 00:54.200]  It would be so sad.
[00:56.540 --> 00:57.560]  That would be sad.
[00:57.760 --> 00:58.740]  I like our theme song.
[00:59.240 --> 01:00.240]  Yeah, I thought you had it.
[01:00.340 --> 01:01.440]  I thought I had it too, Reggie.
[01:01.680 --> 01:02.480]  Okay, well...
[01:02.480 --> 01:03.920]  We'll make this happen.
[01:04.080 --> 01:04.480]  Wait a minute.
[01:07.710 --> 01:08.390]  Ah.
[01:09.250 --> 01:10.210]  There it is.
[01:12.690 --> 01:23.890]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call Live
[01:28.790 --> 01:37.210]  on for the best I hope that's understood Welcome to
[02:27.200 --> 02:58.440]  Canada It's a maple leaf They can't help Canada It's great The people are nice and They speak French too If you don't like it, man You're sniffing The great white horse Their kilts are glad Horses take off It's not how bad I want to be Where yaks can run free Where royal mouthies Can arise me Let's go to Canada Let's sleep today
[03:05.970 --> 03:06.410]  Yes.
[03:07.110 --> 03:09.790]  Do you know what today is here on Off the Hook?
[03:10.470 --> 03:14.250]  Today is Canada Day, as I'm sure all you guys know.
[03:14.490 --> 03:15.950]  The show is Off the Hook.
[03:16.110 --> 03:16.490]  Rob T.
[03:16.570 --> 03:17.330]  Firefly here with you.
[03:17.490 --> 03:18.530]  I'm joined in the studio by Mike.
[03:18.870 --> 03:19.370]  Good evening.
[03:19.690 --> 03:22.210]  And on the phone, I should be joined by Emmanuel.
[03:23.590 --> 03:24.030]  Hello.
[03:24.970 --> 03:26.530]  And is Kyle out there as well?
[03:27.710 --> 03:28.470]  Hi, yeah.
[03:28.650 --> 03:28.970]  Present.
[03:29.810 --> 03:30.630]  Excellent, excellent.
[03:31.430 --> 03:32.790]  And happy Canada Day.
[03:32.890 --> 03:34.330]  We happen to be in Canada, in fact.
[03:34.490 --> 03:40.370]  We've been here for a couple of days on a voyage that is just not to be believed.
[03:41.370 --> 03:42.650]  So tell us about this voyage.
[03:42.670 --> 03:43.690]  What are you guys up to out there?
[03:45.110 --> 03:51.170]  Well, this is something that actually a friend of ours and Hope co-coordinated Greg Newby was involved in.
[03:51.370 --> 03:56.710]  As some of you may know, he has been living in Fairbanks, Alaska for a bunch of years.
[03:56.710 --> 04:03.750]  He became heavily involved in sled-dogging, which I guess is one of the things that just happens to you if you happen to be in Alaska.
[04:04.730 --> 04:14.810]  But he's moving to Ontario, and he needs to move 34 sled-dogs from Fairbanks to Bancroft, Ontario.
[04:14.810 --> 04:23.010]  And that involves driving three vehicles and a whole bunch of days, a lot of coordination.
[04:23.270 --> 04:27.810]  But we're currently in Dawson Creek, British Columbia.
[04:28.350 --> 04:33.490]  We started in Fairbanks, went through Yukon, and this is our third day driving.
[04:33.490 --> 04:37.910]  And we just pulled over at a rest stop, and we're giving the dogs water right now.
[04:39.270 --> 04:40.310]  That's very kind of you.
[04:41.290 --> 04:44.230]  Should we poke holes in your story?
[04:44.410 --> 04:46.870]  You said it was a story not to be believed.
[04:47.470 --> 04:48.850]  Are you really in British Columbia?
[04:49.210 --> 04:50.730]  Seems unlikely on Canada Day.
[04:51.690 --> 04:53.610]  Yeah, no, we're definitely in British Columbia.
[04:54.410 --> 04:57.430]  And everybody is pretty much celebrating one way or another.
[04:57.970 --> 05:00.210]  It's very much like the 4th of July, people just having parties.
[05:00.390 --> 05:04.790]  Well, it's like the 4th of July without all the crazy patriotism and nationalism and all that.
[05:04.790 --> 05:07.850]  People lighting fireworks and just having barbecues and things like that.
[05:09.090 --> 05:13.170]  But Kyle and I have been driving a massive U-Haul truck with a trailer.
[05:14.450 --> 05:20.430]  Boy, that's been an exciting adventure in and of itself, just going down narrow roads throughout the countryside.
[05:20.610 --> 05:22.110]  Really pristine countryside.
[05:22.450 --> 05:34.530]  Actually, up until the point, we came to this town called Blueberry in British Columbia, which was god-awful and ugly because they're doing all kinds of gas drilling and oil industry things going on there.
[05:35.390 --> 05:37.930]  And that was just really ugly passing through that.
[05:38.010 --> 05:46.810]  But the rest of everything we've seen so far, traveling on the Alaska Highway, we're at mile zero right now, by the way, that goes all the way into Alaska.
[05:46.810 --> 05:51.710]  But we basically have seen so much countryside, so much wildlife.
[05:51.710 --> 05:52.730]  We've seen buffalo.
[05:53.030 --> 05:53.750]  We've seen bear.
[05:54.270 --> 05:55.930]  There's moose all over the place.
[05:56.370 --> 05:57.570]  Really fantastic.
[05:57.790 --> 06:04.650]  But a lot of work, a lot of grueling driving in what can be considered really bad conditions sometimes.
[06:04.890 --> 06:09.450]  Alaska Highway going up through Yukon is really rough.
[06:09.690 --> 06:10.750]  Dirt road, very bumpy.
[06:11.990 --> 06:15.610]  It's hard when you're moving dogs and when you're moving a whole house full of furniture as well.
[06:16.470 --> 06:17.590]  You described it as rough.
[06:17.590 --> 06:18.570]  Is that a dog pun?
[06:20.130 --> 06:22.990]  All right, Mike, you're going to have to get over the fact that we're moving 34 dogs.
[06:23.170 --> 06:23.950]  It's, yeah...
[06:23.950 --> 06:24.710]  Well, we can hear that.
[06:24.830 --> 06:25.650]  There's dog puns.
[06:25.690 --> 06:26.610]  There's Canada puns.
[06:26.710 --> 06:27.570]  There's all kinds of things we can do.
[06:27.670 --> 06:30.190]  But this is a serious job here, and we're taking it seriously.
[06:31.050 --> 06:32.570]  And we have a lot more to go.
[06:32.770 --> 06:34.530]  Yeah, you're really barking up the wrong tree.
[06:34.730 --> 06:36.910]  All right, you know, I'm going to have to ask both of you that this lay off.
[06:36.910 --> 06:41.450]  All right, you guys, just let's pause for reflection and catch the tail end of what's going on out there.
[06:42.870 --> 06:45.230]  Wow, you're just right there ready for that, aren't you, Rob?
[06:45.790 --> 06:50.910]  What we're going to do now is we're going to walk over to where the dogs have been let out of the vehicle they're riding in.
[06:51.070 --> 06:52.070]  They're so well-behaved.
[06:52.150 --> 06:58.630]  Most of them are Alaskan Huskies, which is basically a mixed breed of Husky and all kinds of other dogs as well.
[06:58.730 --> 07:00.950]  But some of them are pretty old.
[07:00.990 --> 07:05.050]  Some of them are 13 and 14, and they're past their sledding years.
[07:05.050 --> 07:09.250]  Some of them are younger than that, but they're all really well-behaved and patient.
[07:09.650 --> 07:15.190]  When you think about it, having a dog in a car for six or seven days is enough.
[07:15.310 --> 07:27.270]  But these guys are in a traveling kennel, and we have to keep looking out for them because the primary thing here is keeping them healthy and making sure they all arrive.
[07:27.590 --> 07:30.770]  There are some dogs, actually, that are not in the best of shape.
[07:30.770 --> 07:36.810]  We have to keep a special eye on them, make sure they're eating, and that their medical conditions are being looked after.
[07:37.170 --> 07:41.650]  Yeah, I don't know if it was mentioned, but all of these dogs, in one way or another, are rescues.
[07:43.210 --> 07:50.310]  So they've been taken from various places and placed with Craig's kennel.
[07:50.310 --> 07:54.650]  And they're sort of getting a new lease on life as the sled dogs.
[07:55.030 --> 08:03.130]  And they're all really just a big family, and it's really cool to see all of their different personalities and help take care of them for this trip.
[08:04.050 --> 08:05.350]  That's very noble of Greg.
[08:05.550 --> 08:10.030]  So what are the logistics of getting that many dogs onto a couple of...
[08:10.030 --> 08:11.170]  How many trucks have you got now?
[08:11.930 --> 08:13.510]  Well, we have three vehicles.
[08:14.750 --> 08:20.970]  One vehicle has the majority of the dogs, maybe about, what, 25 or so?
[08:21.210 --> 08:26.030]  Yeah, there's a trailer with a kennel capacity of about 20.
[08:26.510 --> 08:31.350]  It's a really big trailer with pretty much a lot of the sledding gear.
[08:31.350 --> 08:43.110]  And each kennel itself has some bedding and all the supplies we need to basically create a mobile kennel or a portable kennel wherever we are.
[08:43.450 --> 08:52.030]  And then the truck that's pulling it has about eight crates built into a canopy for some of the remaining dogs.
[08:52.130 --> 08:57.370]  And then we have some of the dogs that have a little bit more health concerns.
[08:57.370 --> 08:59.370]  They're riding in another vehicle.
[08:59.550 --> 09:07.130]  I think there's three or four of them so that they can get a little bit more climate control and observation just in case.
[09:07.790 --> 09:10.890]  Well, and also some of them need medication and so on, as you can imagine.
[09:11.170 --> 09:13.110]  And they all have their own unique personality, too.
[09:13.310 --> 09:14.010]  Like, turn it out.
[09:14.610 --> 09:14.850]  Sorry.
[09:15.450 --> 09:17.790]  Some of them are a bit...
[09:17.790 --> 09:18.410]  Yeah, I know.
[09:18.570 --> 09:19.230]  And he's barking.
[09:20.250 --> 09:20.650]  Okay.
[09:20.910 --> 09:21.310]  No, no, no.
[09:21.310 --> 09:21.810]  That's Chevy.
[09:21.970 --> 09:22.430]  Is that Chevy?
[09:23.110 --> 09:23.730]  I'm sorry.
[09:23.730 --> 09:35.070]  Okay, well, the point is we're surrounded now by about 20, 25 dogs all out drinking water tied up to the truck and various, I think, to the tree as well.
[09:35.730 --> 09:48.190]  Yeah, I think this is called a gang line or it's basically really long lines and they're all separated out so they're all attached so they don't run away but they all have spacing so they can eat and get a chance to eat their food.
[09:48.310 --> 09:50.350]  Nobody eats anybody else's food, that kind of stuff.
[09:50.350 --> 10:03.210]  If you can imagine over 20 dogs being in one place at the same time after having ridden in cars for many, many hours, I just think there would be a little less patient than they are now.
[10:03.330 --> 10:07.590]  They're all very friendly and they've been going through a lot.
[10:07.810 --> 10:11.110]  So we have to look after them, make sure they're doing well.
[10:11.350 --> 10:12.990]  And so far they have been.
[10:13.170 --> 10:14.090]  But it's a challenge.
[10:14.190 --> 10:15.390]  As I said, we have a long way ahead.
[10:15.550 --> 10:17.570]  We're about a little less than halfway through.
[10:17.570 --> 10:27.310]  Our goal is to hit Edmonton tonight and then to continue through Saskatchewan and Manitoba and eventually into Ontario.
[10:28.050 --> 10:28.290]  Excellent.
[10:28.450 --> 10:30.470]  And do I hear Greg there with you?
[10:31.810 --> 10:34.310]  Greg is setting this up right now.
[10:34.370 --> 10:37.290]  He'll be with us in a minute and he can answer some more specific questions, I guess.
[10:37.550 --> 10:43.790]  Yeah, he's still securing and part of the barking, I think, is that they're anticipating a bit of food.
[10:43.950 --> 10:46.130]  So that's next in order as soon as they're secure.
[10:46.130 --> 10:56.070]  Just to let you know, we have six drivers, three vehicles, 34 dogs, and going through two countries.
[10:56.350 --> 11:08.850]  So it's about, what, 4,000 miles, which is a lot more than if you go from New York to Los Angeles because you're coming down from Fairbanks and traversing the entire Canadian continent.
[11:09.110 --> 11:10.670]  Something I've never actually done before.
[11:10.670 --> 11:11.850]  I've driven across the U.S.
[11:11.870 --> 11:14.630]  a number of times, but driving across Canada is a whole different thing.
[11:15.290 --> 11:20.950]  And I've got to tell you, it's really fun to interact with people along the way.
[11:21.090 --> 11:21.830]  We've had...
[11:21.830 --> 11:26.210]  Kyle and I have been driving the big U-Haul and we've had a couple of misadventures, both of which have involved running out of gas.
[11:26.810 --> 11:30.190]  And the reason that didn't actually happen, it came really, really close.
[11:31.070 --> 11:35.690]  We have two-way radios that we keep in all the cabs of all the vehicles.
[11:36.510 --> 11:40.950]  And, well, sometimes those two-way radios, they run out of batteries and then you can't talk to anybody.
[11:41.510 --> 11:45.050]  They also have ranges of maybe about a mile at the most.
[11:45.630 --> 11:52.310]  So what happened the first time was we went way ahead and we kept going and we didn't realize that they had stopped to feed all the dogs.
[11:52.410 --> 11:54.110]  So that put them behind by about an hour.
[11:54.990 --> 11:57.570]  We got to a point where we realized we couldn't go much further.
[11:57.930 --> 12:01.270]  And we had to find a place to get gas.
[12:01.270 --> 12:06.090]  So we pulled over at this campsite, an RV campsite, and it was about midnight.
[12:06.430 --> 12:07.750]  It was still light outside.
[12:08.270 --> 12:09.130]  No midnight sun.
[12:09.250 --> 12:11.510]  It was below the Arctic Circle, but it was still very light.
[12:11.510 --> 12:13.670]  And it remained light all night long.
[12:13.930 --> 12:18.230]  And we just waited there and hung out with the people who owned the place and had a great time with them, just talking.
[12:18.570 --> 12:22.910]  And eventually it just turned out that by accident we had found the perfect place for us to spend the night.
[12:23.210 --> 12:25.110]  And they welcomed all the dogs.
[12:25.330 --> 12:26.650]  They welcomed all the people.
[12:26.650 --> 12:28.790]  We had a great breakfast the next day.
[12:28.790 --> 12:35.870]  And we set out, and the exact same thing happened the next day, where they thought we were ahead, but we were actually way behind.
[12:37.170 --> 12:39.290]  And we were about to run out of gas.
[12:39.430 --> 12:40.550]  We had to stop at another place.
[12:40.830 --> 12:51.930]  And we hung out with the people there, too, very friendly, talked to a number of them, got all their stories, and even borrowed a laptop so we can get online so we can see the progress of our party and find out where they might be.
[12:52.270 --> 12:53.590]  In fact, you can do that, too.
[12:53.590 --> 13:08.430]  So, we have a URL, it's a bit.ly site, that's bit.ly slash stinkypup, and that's spelled the way you might expect, stinkypup dash caravan dash 2015.
[13:09.090 --> 13:10.210]  Did you get that URL okay?
[13:11.530 --> 13:13.210]  Okay, so that's bit.ly.
[13:15.690 --> 13:17.610]  Why don't you repeat it one more time for us, Emmanuel?
[13:18.470 --> 13:19.810]  Okay, I say bit.ly.
[13:19.850 --> 13:20.870]  You might say bit.ly.
[13:21.030 --> 13:22.130]  It doesn't really matter to me.
[13:23.230 --> 13:31.670]  Stinkypup, that's one word, S-T-I-N-K-Y-P-U-P dash caravan, C-A-R-A-B-A-N dash 2015.
[13:31.830 --> 13:33.770]  And that'll give you updates as to where we are.
[13:34.170 --> 13:38.550]  This is how, when we get lost and look back to each other, we find out where the dogs are.
[13:39.270 --> 13:43.610]  And it'll also give you an occasional blog post and various other things like that.
[13:43.790 --> 13:47.750]  Well, the top-level domain .ly is in Libya, so I think technically it's bit.ly.
[13:49.370 --> 13:53.710]  But yeah, I see the site now, and yeah, there you guys are.
[13:53.950 --> 13:56.010]  I can see you waving, actually, back at me.
[13:56.070 --> 13:56.430]  That's creepy.
[13:56.650 --> 14:00.890]  Do you want to tell us a little more about this tracking technology to which you voluntarily subjected yourselves?
[14:02.150 --> 14:04.150]  Well, I think this is a good time to introduce Greg.
[14:05.410 --> 14:07.030]  It's always a good time to introduce Greg.
[14:07.770 --> 14:08.250]  Hello, Greg.
[14:08.250 --> 14:10.730]  Actually, do you have to order an author?
[14:10.910 --> 14:11.430]  I'm just going to watch them.
[14:11.450 --> 14:12.270]  I'm going to watch them from right here.
[14:12.350 --> 14:12.470]  Okay.
[14:13.090 --> 14:16.770]  Greg Newby, many of you recognize him from Hope, and he's been on the radio before.
[14:17.390 --> 14:21.210]  And the book back in New York had a question about the tracking technology we're using.
[14:21.510 --> 14:21.870]  Tracker.
[14:22.050 --> 14:22.370]  Yes.
[14:22.470 --> 14:26.970]  Well, we're using something called Spot Tracker, and essentially it broadcasts up to the polar orbiting satellite.
[14:27.050 --> 14:33.270]  So it keeps track of us within about five-minute accuracy, within something like a quarter-mile of range, even tighter than that.
[14:33.270 --> 14:36.510]  Among other things, this is the same technology used for avalanche rescues.
[14:36.510 --> 14:41.370]  So when people have an avalanche alert, it goes up to the same polar orbiting satellites.
[14:41.710 --> 14:42.430]  But it's pretty neat.
[14:42.490 --> 14:43.210]  You can find the URL.
[14:43.290 --> 14:49.290]  It's a big, long monster URL, but you can find the URL on the stickypup.net site or on the site you just mentioned.
[14:51.050 --> 14:51.410]  Excellent.
[14:51.590 --> 14:51.750]  Excellent.
[14:51.750 --> 14:54.550]  So this is a commercial service, or something you put together yourself?
[14:55.750 --> 14:56.930]  Yeah, Spot is commercial.
[14:57.430 --> 14:58.490]  I'm not sure what...
[14:58.490 --> 15:00.290]  They must rent time on the satellite somehow.
[15:00.550 --> 15:02.870]  I know the technology, so I'm not sure of the business model.
[15:03.170 --> 15:06.910]  But you can buy these things in any outdoor store, and then you pay...
[15:06.910 --> 15:07.610]  It's a lot of GPS.
[15:07.870 --> 15:09.770]  You pay an annual maintenance fee.
[15:09.830 --> 15:11.470]  It might be around $40 a year.
[15:11.670 --> 15:13.090]  We use this for munching all the time.
[15:13.150 --> 15:21.490]  In fact, we have a couple of great stories where we didn't know where each other was when we were munching in Alaska in the past, and the Spot Tracker is the way around that.
[15:21.490 --> 15:27.090]  It's also used in big races, you know, where the Iditarod munchers are, where the Yukon flex munchers are, during the go-to-the-race.
[15:27.250 --> 15:29.410]  It's fantastically useful technology, because we're...
[15:29.410 --> 15:31.270]  You know, we're on the road, but it's pretty difficult.
[15:31.750 --> 15:39.450]  In the wilds of Alaska, you're in crazy, isolated area at night, in potentially bad conditions, and the Spot is...
[15:39.450 --> 15:48.690]  Sometimes it's not a way for you to know where you are, because it doesn't have a screen or anything, but it's a way for your friends to know where you are in case they need to know, you know, are you overdue, are you stopped, or you may be in trouble.
[15:49.010 --> 15:50.290]  It also has an emergency alert.
[15:52.410 --> 15:54.050]  Greg, I was going to ask you a question.
[15:54.250 --> 15:59.210]  I imagine a number of our listeners right now are saying to themselves, gosh, I'd like to be a musher someday.
[15:59.210 --> 16:01.510]  What should I do to become that?
[16:02.010 --> 16:02.910]  Is it a lot of work?
[16:03.390 --> 16:04.370]  It is a lot of work.
[16:04.530 --> 16:10.810]  The thing about sled dogs is, if you want to have a team of, say, six or eight or ten or twelve dogs, and for an adult, four is really minimal.
[16:10.950 --> 16:12.470]  You need about six to really, really go.
[16:12.690 --> 16:17.610]  So having six dogs that are healthy and ready to pull you means you probably have eight or ten or even twelve dogs at home.
[16:17.610 --> 16:20.490]  And once you get into double digits, this is a lot of work.
[16:20.490 --> 16:27.610]  You shift from having two or three dogs on the couch or on the bed to having dogs in kennels, dogs on tie-out lines.
[16:27.610 --> 16:30.670]  You go to a bucket feeding system, things like this.
[16:30.830 --> 16:31.630]  Of course, there's a lot of waste.
[16:31.770 --> 16:32.390]  There's a lot of expense.
[16:32.830 --> 16:35.410]  So it scales up in ways that are sort of nonlinear.
[16:35.670 --> 16:39.890]  One thing that we've benefited from greatly is our veterinarian is fantastic.
[16:39.890 --> 16:45.230]  We have a great vet in town who, they basically got tired of us bringing in dogs and maybe had a little fight.
[16:45.330 --> 16:46.910]  Maybe they had a little scratch on their paw.
[16:47.050 --> 16:50.030]  So it's one of the things that every dog owner would bring your dog to the vet.
[16:50.170 --> 16:50.890]  You know, the dog's injured.
[16:51.010 --> 16:51.750]  The dog's not feeling well.
[16:52.070 --> 16:57.550]  And over the course of a period of years, they said, hey, why don't we just give you maybe a bigger bottle of antibiotics?
[16:57.670 --> 16:59.710]  And next time, don't bring this dog in.
[16:59.910 --> 17:01.730]  Just treat it and then, you know, monitor.
[17:01.730 --> 17:03.790]  And if there's problems, then bring it in.
[17:03.870 --> 17:06.770]  And this is probably pushing the boundary of what they're supposed to do as a veterinarian.
[17:06.770 --> 17:08.510]  But the point is, it's much better for everybody.
[17:08.510 --> 17:10.950]  It keeps us off of their veterinary schedule.
[17:11.050 --> 17:15.650]  And also, it means that we're able to take immediate action with the dog.
[17:15.890 --> 17:24.930]  There's also things that we've learned in the dog care area that are partially for, like, Bush or the idea of being off the road, further off the beaten track.
[17:25.170 --> 17:30.010]  So, for example, we know how to give an intravenous solution to rehydrate a dog.
[17:30.010 --> 17:33.330]  If a dog is having some sort of problem, maybe has diarrhea, things like that.
[17:33.750 --> 17:34.910]  That's something we know how to do.
[17:34.910 --> 17:39.530]  We also have this great technology, which is like sutures, but it's staples.
[17:39.710 --> 17:41.190]  And they actually use that for human operation.
[17:41.330 --> 17:44.270]  In fact, the stapler we have is used for human operation.
[17:44.570 --> 17:51.330]  So, if we have a dog on the trail that they get a big gas and is bleeding all over the place, you staple the dog shut.
[17:52.250 --> 17:53.950]  Another neat little...
[17:53.950 --> 17:55.550]  Wait, wait, what, Greg?
[17:55.730 --> 17:56.330]  Believe it or not.
[17:57.290 --> 17:58.670]  You staple the dog shut.
[18:00.530 --> 18:01.470]  I'm sorry, go ahead.
[18:02.930 --> 18:06.490]  Greg seemed to have said that you staple the dog shut and that...
[18:06.490 --> 18:06.790]  All right.
[18:08.250 --> 18:09.570]  Yes, you staple the dog shut.
[18:09.570 --> 18:10.810]  You don't want the dog to be open.
[18:11.190 --> 18:12.590]  You got stapling the wound shut.
[18:12.790 --> 18:16.530]  You can imagine a gas that normally you would get sutures for, you know, get stitches for.
[18:17.070 --> 18:18.270]  And, of course, we do that, too.
[18:18.370 --> 18:19.290]  We don't do that ourselves.
[18:19.510 --> 18:20.190]  We let the vet do that.
[18:20.290 --> 18:21.310]  You have to sedate the dog.
[18:21.310 --> 18:32.170]  But if you're on the trail and you have an injury that's bleeding, then the stapler, which is really very similar to a regular stapler, it's just a medical-grade stapler, the stapler is a way of very quickly sealing a wound.
[18:32.730 --> 18:32.970]  Okay.
[18:33.030 --> 18:39.670]  But, Greg, this technology that you have for stapling dogs shut and cleaning out wounds and stuff, does this also work on radio panelists?
[18:39.730 --> 18:41.150]  Because we're going to need those guys back eventually.
[18:44.030 --> 18:45.210]  I'm sorry, I missed that question.
[18:46.830 --> 18:47.650]  Don't worry, there wasn't much.
[18:47.650 --> 18:48.990]  I heard the first part, but I missed the question.
[18:49.310 --> 18:52.050]  Oh, you were saying, can we send back your radio hosts eventually?
[18:52.250 --> 18:53.950]  Because instead of treating them...
[18:53.950 --> 18:58.930]  Yeah, I mean, if you have to staple them shut in any way, you know, you have our consent.
[19:00.370 --> 19:02.590]  It's totally suitable for radio hosts, actually.
[19:03.050 --> 19:06.990]  In fact, typically we use this technique for commercial radio hosts.
[19:08.050 --> 19:10.570]  Yeah, we're going to come back with a few ideas ourselves.
[19:10.570 --> 19:12.550]  So, yeah, we'll get ready for that.
[19:13.410 --> 19:14.270]  Anything that's...
[19:14.270 --> 19:14.990]  Kyle, you've got something.
[19:15.650 --> 19:17.050]  Yeah, I just wanted to elaborate.
[19:17.430 --> 19:29.190]  Kind of along the theme of being in remote areas, being self-sustaining, and in light of technology, it really has been both a gift and a curse.
[19:29.190 --> 19:35.350]  A lot of technology with some of the issues we've had along the way has failed.
[19:35.530 --> 19:37.030]  There have been very long stretches.
[19:37.190 --> 19:47.110]  I think there was an eight-hour stretch where we were completely without AMF any kind of cellular, and there's zero kind of cities along the way.
[19:47.270 --> 19:48.590]  Services are very sparse.
[19:49.670 --> 19:50.930]  And it was awesome.
[19:50.930 --> 19:51.610]  It was great.
[19:51.610 --> 19:56.930]  Not having anything to distract you except nature, conversation, and the open road.
[19:56.930 --> 19:58.530]  Well, absolutely.
[19:59.650 --> 20:12.450]  Beyond that, though, I think you tend to see really ingenious ways and impressive installations of infrastructure in places that just simply don't have it.
[20:12.870 --> 20:18.710]  One thing we noticed that was really interesting from the very start is up in Alaska, you get water delivery.
[20:18.710 --> 20:24.150]  And there's public water stations where people will go and fill up potable water.
[20:24.770 --> 20:28.810]  So that was curious in and of itself.
[20:28.970 --> 20:37.370]  And we've seen little bits and pieces of things like that along the way, including the one place where we ran out of gas yesterday.
[20:38.350 --> 20:40.290]  They had an entire lodge.
[20:40.470 --> 20:50.250]  It was owned by First Nations tribal community, but their entire lodge at this hot spring was powered by two very large generators.
[20:50.510 --> 20:57.510]  And so they would sell fuel to any passers-by, but everything there was just simply running on a generator.
[20:57.710 --> 21:09.470]  They didn't have any kind of cell or any other communication services, maybe some intermittent landmines, but even a simple thing like a phone call was pretty tricky.
[21:09.790 --> 21:13.210]  I think they had outside payphones that were out of service.
[21:13.390 --> 21:18.070]  They had one payphone inside, and that actually came in pretty handy.
[21:18.230 --> 21:39.370]  But just all along the way, we've been sort of shedding a lot of technology, as a lot of you have probably heard us talk about in the past in various scenarios where it might be okay to use your wits and maybe be a little bit more aware instead of sort of dipping into the convenience of communications technologies.
[21:39.690 --> 21:50.330]  So we've been embracing that and learning a lot of things along the way, especially about dogs and making this kind of really, really long road trip.
[21:50.710 --> 21:53.110]  So yeah, that's what I wanted to say.
[21:53.210 --> 21:56.870]  And if you have any questions about any of that, I could elaborate on any of it.
[21:56.870 --> 22:05.190]  But it's been really, really interesting to see infrastructure and just how people get on in a place that is quite remote.
[22:05.430 --> 22:13.930]  One question I have for you guys is, we have heard very often in the past of the adventures that you guys get into when you're crossing the U.S.-Canada border.
[22:14.890 --> 22:16.230]  How was your trip this time?
[22:17.730 --> 22:21.050]  Oh, it was not a problem for us.
[22:21.530 --> 22:23.290]  We crossed over in Yukon.
[22:23.290 --> 22:29.530]  And it was an issue, though, when you cross a border with 34 dogs, you get a little bit more scrutiny from the border guard.
[22:29.590 --> 22:31.650]  Even if there's only one guy there at 1 o'clock in the morning.
[22:32.730 --> 22:34.750]  But they were very nice to us, I think, overall.
[22:34.930 --> 22:35.330]  What did you say, Greg?
[22:35.630 --> 22:36.690]  Yeah, I'd say so.
[22:36.830 --> 22:38.570]  So I'm the Canadian citizen of the bunch.
[22:38.570 --> 22:40.290]  And I'm already working in Canada.
[22:40.290 --> 22:42.350]  And I'm absolutely allowed to enter Canada.
[22:42.510 --> 22:50.010]  And really, the first thing they told us, we were driving the first truck with Kyle and I, and the first thing they told us was, Greg, you're a Canadian citizen, you're welcome in Canada.
[22:50.290 --> 22:54.670]  You're three trucks, you're three trailers, you're ATV, you're 34 dogs, you're five friends.
[22:54.670 --> 22:56.130]  We have to spend a little more time on.
[22:56.910 --> 22:58.830]  And we did, and it really worked out to be fine.
[22:58.910 --> 23:03.350]  In fact, we had all this paperwork for the dogs, tons of paperwork for the dogs.
[23:03.890 --> 23:05.270]  Everyone, of course, has their passport.
[23:05.270 --> 23:07.470]  And they didn't even ask for the paperwork for the dogs.
[23:07.770 --> 23:11.030]  And the passports, they glanced at, really.
[23:11.250 --> 23:13.330]  And we just passed right on through.
[23:13.750 --> 23:21.970]  I, however, as the sort of returning Canadian citizen, had to do a bunch of paperwork related to import of my household goods, which took some time.
[23:22.190 --> 23:24.310]  It turned out I could have done a little bit of it in advance.
[23:24.430 --> 23:26.570]  But really, they were very helpful and kind.
[23:26.830 --> 23:32.270]  The one thing that I made a mistake on was I had read earlier that you had to have the title of the vehicles.
[23:32.530 --> 23:34.430]  And I, for some reason, I thought registration.
[23:34.430 --> 23:38.550]  So I had the registration handy, and the title is way in the back of the U-Haul.
[23:38.630 --> 23:39.370]  We don't even know where.
[23:39.670 --> 23:47.990]  So I told them a couple times that, look, I absolutely positively have the title to the trucks and the trailers and the ATV.
[23:48.870 --> 23:51.570]  And if you want me to look for it for a couple of hours, I can do that.
[23:51.650 --> 23:56.070]  However, if there's a way that I can pass and just get that done later, that would be my preference.
[23:56.090 --> 23:58.450]  And they ended up letting me do that, which is great.
[23:58.510 --> 24:02.310]  Unfortunately, I have to go to Hamilton, Ontario within the next few weeks to report.
[24:02.470 --> 24:02.950]  But it's been good.
[24:02.950 --> 24:11.390]  Well, their preference also was not to have 34 dogs outside doing various things that dogs do, because that was necessary at the time.
[24:11.550 --> 24:12.690]  It was really getting a little chaotic.
[24:13.270 --> 24:16.370]  So I think at a necessity, they kind of fast-tracked us.
[24:16.890 --> 24:22.430]  Yeah, I think that one way of characterizing that is the border control's job is done when we leave, right?
[24:22.430 --> 24:24.810]  So they wanted to get to that part of the process, yeah.
[24:25.370 --> 24:25.630]  Excellent.
[24:25.790 --> 24:35.950]  So if we ever really do want to do anything shady and sneak into Canada under strange circumstances, all we have to do is bring three dozen dogs with us, and they'll just push us right through the system.
[24:36.410 --> 24:37.130]  This is good to know.
[24:37.130 --> 24:46.030]  It could be definitely one choice, one angle that you could work, depending on your situation.
[24:46.310 --> 24:58.250]  But in this case, it is an official and well-planned move, and it's going to be really good for all of the souls that are with us.
[24:58.530 --> 25:18.830]  And I think everybody's pretty excited, and morale has been pretty good, but we've been reassessing all of that as we go, because again, some of these dogs need extra attention, and just in general, you don't want to leave dogs without a chance to get out and take care of themselves and get some food,
[25:18.950 --> 25:19.970]  especially with the weather.
[25:20.130 --> 25:21.870]  It's been really, really, really nice.
[25:21.870 --> 25:25.770]  I think it rained one day, but it's been quite warm on this trip.
[25:25.910 --> 25:30.350]  It's also been really, really, really light, because it doesn't get dark just far north.
[25:30.910 --> 25:35.050]  And that's kind of weird to be out at midnight, and it's perfectly bright outside.
[25:35.270 --> 25:40.570]  Again, like I said, the sun isn't above the horizon, but you can see the sunset, which soon turns into a sunrise.
[25:40.570 --> 25:43.210]  It's really kind of bizarre, but kind of amazing, too.
[25:43.390 --> 25:56.150]  What I really want to do, and I think, Kyle, you want to do this, too, is come here in the winter, or come to Alaska or the Yukon in the winter, and see what that's like, especially we saw the Alaska Railroad that goes from Anchorage to Fairbanks.
[25:56.410 --> 26:05.050]  They use, basically, these diesel locomotives and some old-fashioned train cars that are still in use on the Long Island Railroad somewhere.
[26:05.310 --> 26:06.530]  Fully restored, though.
[26:06.950 --> 26:08.230]  Yeah, unlike the Long Island Railroad.
[26:08.890 --> 26:14.390]  And it would just be a really cool thing to see that in the middle of the winter where it doesn't get light at all.
[26:14.470 --> 26:20.770]  And the conditions that people have to live through in this area, 60 degrees below zero.
[26:21.610 --> 26:23.090]  It doesn't even matter if it's Fahrenheit or Celsius.
[26:23.450 --> 26:24.710]  They meet at a certain point.
[26:24.870 --> 26:27.270]  And it's just insanely cold.
[26:27.410 --> 26:31.890]  People go out and they throw hot water up in the air and it freezes and all kinds of fun activities like that.
[26:32.230 --> 26:37.110]  Greg, is there anything you'd like to add to that as far as what winter is like in places like Fairbanks?
[26:37.690 --> 26:40.370]  The cold in interior of Alaska is a thing.
[26:40.550 --> 26:45.570]  When you walk out and it's 30 or 40 below, it actually hits you in the face, even though your face is covered.
[26:45.790 --> 26:48.330]  You breathe in and your nostrils start to freeze over.
[26:49.290 --> 26:58.290]  And unlike when you're tough in college or something, or you're a tough man, a tough woman, and you go around without gloves, you go around in shorts in the middle of the winter, nobody does that in Fairbanks, Alaska.
[26:58.530 --> 26:59.550]  It's just too cold.
[26:59.750 --> 27:00.650]  Everyone bundles up.
[27:00.970 --> 27:04.590]  So it's really a big difference from cold as we know it.
[27:04.670 --> 27:08.430]  And of course, I grew up in New York, so we'd get the cold and the snow and the heat.
[27:09.010 --> 27:12.070]  But the cold in Alaska is like a thing that we deal with.
[27:12.390 --> 27:13.090]  Dogs are a thing.
[27:13.090 --> 27:15.870]  All right, we have a situation happening here, apparently.
[27:17.330 --> 27:22.150]  Water time has ended, and there's some contention as to who's going to get back in the truck first.
[27:22.730 --> 27:27.890]  And also, there's some sniffing going on and some issues that apparently have been held over in the past.
[27:28.530 --> 27:39.050]  But I just want to conclude by saying that, you know, in Alaska, actually, all throughout, in British Columbia, mosquitoes are the issue in the summertime.
[27:39.870 --> 27:46.450]  And my goodness, you have to cover your whole head with netting in order to just walk down the street.
[27:47.010 --> 27:48.210]  So there's that as well.
[27:48.630 --> 27:52.670]  You know, why don't you walk away just a little bit so we can at least take a bottle up there from New York.
[27:53.010 --> 27:56.230]  The other thing is, we really appreciate it a lot.
[27:56.230 --> 28:00.990]  And I would remark about it is the people.
[28:00.990 --> 28:19.070]  We've met some really amazing people just along the way, and people are very friendly, as you might imagine, in this part of the world, and very aware, just so gracious and willing to share their lives and what they are about, what they're doing, and help us along the way,
[28:19.130 --> 28:29.650]  give us some tips about some of the routes, or just, like we said, let us use a web browser, which, you know, in some places is hard to convince people to do, you know.
[28:29.650 --> 28:31.230]  And it's been really nice, though.
[28:31.390 --> 28:36.370]  I want to add Greg to that list of amazing people, too, because he has opened up so many doors to us.
[28:36.750 --> 28:43.130]  And, you know, you know people for years, but don't really know what their lives are like until you visit and see what they're up to.
[28:43.230 --> 28:52.070]  And I'm just so glad we had the opportunity to go up to Alaska and see, before he left, what it was like there, and the kinds of challenges that he deals with.
[28:52.070 --> 29:02.270]  And to also help in this amazing voyage across Canada, which I'm always going to remember, and hopefully a lot of other people can share that as well.
[29:02.550 --> 29:11.930]  Greg, for the people that have been lined up along the street waiting as we pass by, can we reveal what the route, what the rest of the route will entail?
[29:12.510 --> 29:13.010]  Oh, certainly.
[29:13.210 --> 29:17.710]  So essentially, as you know, we're going not entirely across the continent, but very nearly.
[29:17.710 --> 29:26.550]  So we're going from Fairbanks, Alaska, to a little town called La Mable, which is near Bancroft, Ontario, right around the middle between Toronto and Ottawa.
[29:26.790 --> 29:31.210]  So if you can imagine going kind of straight north from New York, that's almost where we're headed.
[29:31.910 --> 29:37.470]  So we're today in Dawson Creek, and we're hoping to get to Edmonton or a little bit beyond Edmonton tonight.
[29:37.590 --> 29:38.550]  That will be another six hours.
[29:38.750 --> 29:42.170]  We're more or less doing a whistle-stop tour of the big cities of each province.
[29:42.290 --> 29:44.210]  So we'll go from Edmonton, which is in Alberta.
[29:44.430 --> 29:52.750]  We'll then go to Saskatoon or pass through Saskatoon, which is in Saskatchewan, we'll go to Winnipeg, which is in Manitoba, and we'll be angling sort of southwest all the way through.
[29:52.970 --> 29:55.310]  From Winnipeg, we're going to not go into the U.S.
[29:55.310 --> 29:57.490]  If you want to take the shortest route, you go into the U.S.
[29:57.530 --> 29:59.610]  by Fargo and go by Chicago and stuff.
[29:59.790 --> 30:02.890]  That would involve two more border-flossings, and we're not sure we want to push our luck.
[30:03.050 --> 30:12.130]  We'll go from Manitoba to Thunder Bay, Thunder Bay to Sudbury, and then sort of cross the areas north of Toronto, greater Toronto area, almost north of that, into La Mable.
[30:12.630 --> 30:17.850]  So it's going to be mostly on the Trans-Canada Highway starting a little bit later today when we get to Edmonton.
[30:18.970 --> 30:20.130]  Okay, well, it sounds like...
[30:21.510 --> 30:27.810]  And maybe you folks can give out that URL again, just so that there's no international phone noise that would interfere with that.
[30:28.010 --> 30:35.850]  Okay, so if I have that correctly, it's bit.ly slash stinkypup dash caravan dash 2015?
[30:37.390 --> 30:40.830]  That's correct, except for it's bit.ly, but we'll talk about that when I get back.
[30:41.090 --> 30:41.990]  Exactly, bit.ly.
[30:42.270 --> 30:48.410]  And you can also go to stinkypup.net, where there's a whole bunch of other stuff going on, and blog cataloging this journey.
[30:49.990 --> 30:55.710]  Well, for now, we'll let you guys get back to your dogs and your trucks and everything that's going on out there.
[30:56.090 --> 31:02.190]  And we hope to hear some further adventures of Sergeant Goldstein of the Yukon next week here on this radio station.
[31:02.190 --> 31:02.510]  All right.
[31:03.230 --> 31:06.470]  And please convey our greetings to the rest of the Southerners down there.
[31:07.210 --> 31:07.950]  Indeed, we will.
[31:08.450 --> 31:12.830]  Okay, that's about it for them.
[31:13.310 --> 31:20.150]  What I will do now is I will move on to the second part of our show where we'll have more friends on the phone and more fun.
[31:20.290 --> 31:22.110]  But to do that, I've got to do some phone jockeying.
[31:22.250 --> 31:24.290]  So while I'm on that, Mike, I believe you have some news.
[31:24.470 --> 31:28.390]  There's a lot of news this week, and not a lot of time to discuss all of it.
[31:29.290 --> 31:43.230]  One thing that is a little bit exciting for fans of traveling and traveling hackers is that the Chaos Computer Camp, which will be this August, north of Berlin, they've opened their ticket shop just this week.
[31:43.390 --> 31:50.770]  So if you want to buy a ticket, go to events.ccc.d and follow the links from there and they will take your money.
[31:50.870 --> 31:54.230]  They will not sell you a ticket at the entrance to the camp they've announced.
[31:54.350 --> 31:56.150]  So buy in advance.
[31:57.510 --> 32:01.810]  If you're a regular listener to this program, you've heard us from these events.
[32:02.090 --> 32:10.650]  They're really great opportunities to connect with like-minded people and to be out in the woods and still have access to the internet.
[32:10.970 --> 32:13.490]  So check that out if it's of interest to you.
[32:15.090 --> 32:21.710]  One news story that I wish I could be surprised by comes to us from the New York Times.
[32:21.890 --> 32:28.290]  The headline is that the surveillance court rules that the NSA can resume bulk data collection.
[32:29.230 --> 32:47.390]  And, uh, listeners to this program will remember that the Congress tried to shut down the bulk data collection program, the, uh, which, which involved the, uh, government, the NSA in particular, getting a list of everyone who called everyone in the United States.
[32:48.450 --> 32:56.010]  But, uh, it, it got shut down by the USA Freedom Act, the so-called USA Freedom Act, uh, on June 1st.
[32:56.190 --> 32:57.610]  The Patriot Act expired.
[32:58.870 --> 33:01.770]  And, um, did you press something, Rob?
[33:01.990 --> 33:02.670]  Yes, indeed I did.
[33:02.810 --> 33:03.090]  All right.
[33:03.310 --> 33:07.590]  Uh, I seem to be echoing, which is a little bit weird, but hopefully I sound okay to our listeners.
[33:08.690 --> 33:14.910]  Um, anyway, this, this program was shut down because it's against the law.
[33:15.110 --> 33:22.930]  Uh, but the NSA went to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to try and, you know, keep the program going for a little while.
[33:23.090 --> 33:23.630]  And guess what?
[33:23.730 --> 33:24.470]  The court said okay.
[33:26.270 --> 33:26.630]  Well.
[33:27.350 --> 33:29.090]  Are you, uh, do we have Bernie on the phone?
[33:29.370 --> 33:30.130]  We, we should.
[33:30.230 --> 33:31.410]  On the phone, we should have Bernie, yes.
[33:33.050 --> 33:34.010]  If we do, he's...
[33:34.010 --> 33:34.050]  Hello, Mike.
[33:34.190 --> 33:34.730]  Hello, Rob.
[33:34.990 --> 33:35.470]  Oh, hello.
[33:35.470 --> 33:46.110]  The odds, the odds of, the odds of being, uh, the odds of being shut down, uh, of being told no by the Foreign Intelligence, uh, Surveillance Court is pretty low, isn't it, Mike?
[33:46.570 --> 33:48.030]  It's very close to zero.
[33:48.270 --> 34:00.270]  It's so close to zero that when the Congress writes a law specifically to say, hey, NSA, you've got to stop doing that thing, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court still says, yeah, yeah, it's okay, you can keep doing it for a little while.
[34:00.770 --> 34:02.030]  It's mighty neighborly of them.
[34:02.150 --> 34:03.130]  Are you surprised, Bernie?
[34:05.190 --> 34:06.370]  No, I just think it's amusing.
[34:06.550 --> 34:07.610]  It's almost comical.
[34:07.850 --> 34:13.230]  It's like, all right, we'll just go to our friends at the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court because they never say no.
[34:15.110 --> 34:33.670]  The Second Circuit ruled that this program is illegal, and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which is hard to say so many times, um, said, yeah, we don't really care about the Second Circuit, and we disagree with their analysis because we have secret data that they don't have,
[34:33.830 --> 34:35.550]  and no, we won't share it with you.
[34:35.550 --> 34:47.430]  So, I mean, hopefully the program will actually be shut down at some point in the somewhat distant future, and the NSA can just use all its other programs for spying on everyone instead.
[34:47.430 --> 34:52.390]  But, uh, it's sort of the, the, the, the gall here is really amazing.
[34:53.750 --> 34:57.350]  It's really, it's really, uh, just about on the edge of entertaining.
[34:58.090 --> 35:08.470]  Um, a lot of, uh, a lot of other stuff going on this week, um, right before the, uh, right before we went on air, I actually got a note to, uh, that I'd like to tell everyone about, which is that World Maker Faire.
[35:08.930 --> 35:10.230]  We love World Maker Faire.
[35:10.650 --> 35:21.590]  Um, many of us try and make it to World Maker Faire a lot, uh, and the next one here in New York is, uh, coming up on September 26th and 27th, which seems like a long way away, but the early bird tickets have just gone on sale.
[35:22.070 --> 35:35.750]  So, uh, if you'd like to get your tickets to the, uh, World Maker Faire here in New York on the fairgrounds of the World's Fair by the New York Hall of Science, if you go to makerfair.org, um, sometime during the month of July, you will, uh, you will be able to get that for a,
[35:35.750 --> 35:37.950]  uh, discount for being an early bird.
[35:40.050 --> 35:41.390]  That's really quite something.
[35:41.770 --> 35:42.030]  Indeed.
[35:42.270 --> 35:46.550]  Um, birds, birds, dogs, all kinds of animals on this show, even a few humans.
[35:46.770 --> 35:47.470]  And a firefly.
[35:48.790 --> 35:49.590]  Oh, really?
[35:49.970 --> 35:51.710]  Uh, this...
[35:51.710 --> 35:53.970]  As the eyes forcibly roll into the back of his head.
[35:54.730 --> 35:55.710]  Um, but yeah.
[35:55.910 --> 35:57.110]  Uh, what else is going on this week?
[35:57.670 --> 36:03.310]  Um, besides all the other news in the world, there's this new story from, uh, Colombia, the country.
[36:03.630 --> 36:05.450]  Um, there's a graduate student.
[36:05.570 --> 36:10.050]  His name is Diego Gomez, and he was doing some research.
[36:10.190 --> 36:11.330]  He found a research article.
[36:11.670 --> 36:16.330]  He's studying, uh, conservation and wildlife management and, uh, he's in Colombia, right?
[36:16.430 --> 36:23.050]  So he doesn't, his universal library is like not as good as university libraries in, you know, this part of the world.
[36:23.050 --> 36:28.630]  Um, so he found this article and he's like, this article is like super relevant to, to my work.
[36:28.890 --> 36:32.370]  I want my, the, my fellow students to be able to read it.
[36:32.470 --> 36:37.350]  So he put this article on this website, Scribd, which many people may have seen.
[36:37.350 --> 36:39.150]  It's just a place people can put documents.
[36:39.830 --> 36:45.030]  Um, and so, you know, like this is a copyright violation and maybe he shouldn't have done it.
[36:45.170 --> 36:53.090]  Uh, any guesses as to the proposed penalty that the Colombian government is threatening him with one article.
[36:53.110 --> 36:54.290]  I hope they're not going to beheading him.
[36:54.490 --> 36:56.770]  Like they, go ahead, Bernie.
[36:58.370 --> 37:03.810]  I was going to say, uh, it's good that he doesn't live in Saudi Arabia because they may have a beheading, uh, policy there.
[37:04.210 --> 37:06.370]  No, there's no beheading that I'm aware of in Colombia.
[37:07.110 --> 37:09.630]  Um, but remember he just shared one article.
[37:09.830 --> 37:10.230]  No guesses.
[37:10.810 --> 37:14.770]  Um, maybe, uh, a slap on the wrist and, uh, start a stern talking to.
[37:15.050 --> 37:15.310]  Yeah.
[37:15.330 --> 37:17.430]  See, that would be just, but it probably wouldn't make the news.
[37:17.890 --> 37:18.230]  Hmm.
[37:18.890 --> 37:19.610]  I don't know.
[37:19.830 --> 37:21.750]  Uh, what, what, uh, what could it possibly be?
[37:21.870 --> 37:32.050]  He's facing a prison term of four to eight years, uh, for one academic paper, which probably no one, you know, else wants to read anyway.
[37:32.470 --> 37:34.110]  Um, it's, it's...
[37:34.110 --> 37:37.470]  If it's worth giving him four to eight years in jail over, I want to read it now.
[37:38.070 --> 37:42.450]  Well, you, you probably shouldn't, you might get another penalty if someone reads it.
[37:42.590 --> 37:56.190]  Uh, and, and let's be clear, like this is, uh, the Colombian government doing this, you know, they're totally to blame here, but also they're doing this because they're pressured by governments from the rich countries like the United States to enact these sorts of laws.
[37:56.430 --> 38:08.210]  Um, and it's the kind of thing we've seen, not necessarily with severity, but over and over again, where people get in trouble for, you know, in serious trouble, people have to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for sharing one song.
[38:08.970 --> 38:10.910]  People don't usually go to jail for one paper.
[38:11.130 --> 38:13.290]  Usually no one wants to read academic papers.
[38:13.430 --> 38:21.310]  So usually they're, they're not always so strict, but, uh, we remember the Aaron Swartz case, of course, where he didn't even share any news, any, uh, journal articles.
[38:21.470 --> 38:24.330]  He just, um, made copies of them on his own hard drive.
[38:24.950 --> 38:33.430]  And, uh, we'll, we'll never find out how that court case would have gone, uh, of course, but, uh, he was, he was certainly threatened with some serious penalties.
[38:33.870 --> 38:35.890]  Um, we got to stop this.
[38:36.150 --> 38:46.370]  Like we, we can have copyright law if we, as a society think it's the best thing to do, but 48 years for one academic journal article is obviously insane.
[38:46.650 --> 38:46.870]  Yeah.
[38:47.430 --> 38:47.690]  Yeah.
[38:48.030 --> 38:48.930]  Um, Hey, Mike.
[38:49.210 --> 38:49.410]  Yeah.
[38:50.790 --> 39:01.850]  Go ahead, I just want to say, um, to me, it seems, I mean, I know this sounds really naive, but, uh, cause we've all been dealing with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and it's ilk for, what, 15 years now.
[39:02.290 --> 39:07.570]  Um, but it would seem to me that copyright violations should be handled under civil law.
[39:08.030 --> 39:18.350]  And that the only remedy should be, um, civil in nature, not locking people in steel cages for sharing, uh, a bunch of bits that might've been copyrighted.
[39:18.470 --> 39:22.190]  It just, uh, uh, it's just, it's just, I can't understand it.
[39:22.190 --> 39:29.970]  Um, it, it doesn't, it doesn't seem to make much sense to people who are familiar with the actual facts of the case.
[39:30.130 --> 39:34.530]  Uh, but yeah, I, I don't know, I don't know what's to be done about it.
[39:35.490 --> 39:52.070]  Um, yeah, if you want to read more, this article that I'm looking at comes from the Creative Commons website and they recommend the, uh, Fundación Carisma with a K, um, which has, uh, which is a Colombian organization that's, that's doing a lot of the,
[39:52.070 --> 39:54.430]  the legwork to, to get the word out about this.
[39:54.650 --> 39:54.910]  Hmm.
[39:56.010 --> 40:02.850]  Well, moving on to, uh, another story that's going on in the world, uh, there, there, there is a, a bit of a funnier story coming out of Sweden.
[40:03.510 --> 40:03.850]  Um.
[40:04.250 --> 40:05.410]  Oh yes, I have a copy.
[40:05.670 --> 40:06.070]  Yes.
[40:06.350 --> 40:09.570]  Uh, do you, do you want to tell us a little bit more about, uh, about this story really quick?
[40:09.770 --> 40:27.890]  Um, so this story, uh, I have it only in, in Google, uh, translate, translation from Swedish television and it hasn't made a lot of, um, headway in the English language media quite yet, but there's a, a, a gentleman in Sweden who's, who's apparently actually,
[40:27.890 --> 40:29.850]  his name is Hardstyle Jansson.
[40:30.210 --> 40:47.210]  Um, and he received an SMS from, from the, uh, local, from a friend of his apparently who's on the police force there in Sweden in, uh, how do you think you pronounce this time, this town, U-M-E-A with a circle on it?
[40:48.530 --> 40:49.830]  Um, I think, I think...
[40:49.830 --> 40:50.470]  With a circle on it?
[40:50.570 --> 40:53.590]  Yeah, there's a little circle over the A, as they do in Sweden.
[40:53.770 --> 40:56.410]  I can pronounce circle, but, uh, the rest of that I'm not going to take a chance at.
[40:56.570 --> 40:58.410]  Uh, I don't, I don't know how to pronounce this town.
[40:58.890 --> 41:03.510]  Maybe one of our listeners is Swedish and can send us a WAV file we can play next week or something.
[41:03.910 --> 41:08.690]  Um, O-T-H at 2600.com if you, if that's of interest to you.
[41:09.030 --> 41:16.350]  Um, but, uh, he got a text message from his friend on the police force saying, hey, can you help hack Facebook for us?
[41:16.450 --> 41:18.470]  We want you to get access to someone's data.
[41:19.550 --> 41:25.990]  And, uh, Hardstyle, according to this Google translation of what he said, says, at first I thought it was a joke.
[41:26.110 --> 41:27.410]  I wondered, seriously, what is this?
[41:27.490 --> 41:28.730]  But it turned out it was serious.
[41:29.450 --> 41:42.110]  And, uh, so he was provided with the name and picture of someone near Stockholm and the police said, you know, you gotta get into this guy's account, but you can't make sure you, that person can't know about it.
[41:42.110 --> 41:53.170]  Um, and what's weird is that if the Swedish police had an actual case against this person, you know, Facebook does not care about its members' privacy.
[41:53.350 --> 41:58.630]  They will give the data to the police force, you know, on the appropriate legal action.
[41:58.970 --> 42:04.250]  Uh, it's, it's just bizarre that the Swedish police would go to this, this step.
[42:04.250 --> 42:17.710]  And, and with someone who, uh, uh, and, you know, obviously we know about this story because, uh, Mr. Hardstyle went to, um, the stories from Swedish television and told them about it and showed them the SMSs and I guess played some of it on the air.
[42:18.090 --> 42:25.110]  But, uh, I'm sure this happens from time to time with, with people who are less ethical and will just do it.
[42:25.310 --> 42:27.750]  If, if, if that's even possible, I don't know.
[42:27.750 --> 42:33.710]  Yeah, maybe, maybe not everyone would be as firm as Hardstyle on the issue and, uh, and, uh, things would go downhill from there.
[42:33.810 --> 42:37.330]  But, uh, I'd like to introduce, actually, we have a guest on the line, uh, don't we?
[42:37.450 --> 42:40.950]  Actually, Bernie, why don't you introduce our guest and, uh, tell us what he's here.
[42:40.990 --> 42:48.250]  We have, uh, we, I think we have, uh, I think we have John Lowe from the National Institute of Standards and Technology.
[42:48.450 --> 42:48.950]  Are you there, John?
[42:49.630 --> 42:50.090]  I am.
[42:50.230 --> 42:50.610]  Thank you.
[42:51.030 --> 42:51.690]  Happy to be here.
[42:52.230 --> 42:53.090]  Thank you for joining us.
[42:53.090 --> 42:54.510]  You're in, uh, you're in Fort Collins, Colorado.
[42:54.590 --> 42:55.130]  Is that right?
[42:55.430 --> 42:57.130]  No, I'm actually in Boulder, Colorado.
[42:57.970 --> 42:58.450]  Okay.
[42:58.910 --> 42:59.950]  Just, just south of there.
[43:00.850 --> 43:01.490]  Got it.
[43:01.810 --> 43:04.870]  So, we had this, we had this big story yesterday.
[43:04.950 --> 43:09.930]  We, we originally thought this was going, that the leap second was going to happen right at the end of Off the Hook.
[43:10.130 --> 43:10.970]  We miscalculated.
[43:11.450 --> 43:21.210]  Um, but this gives us a chance to be a little more retrospective about what happened with the leap second, um, yesterday and any network problems it caused.
[43:21.350 --> 43:27.510]  And can you, can you explain to our audience first what a leap second is and why do we need a leap second?
[43:27.750 --> 43:29.210]  Sure, I'd be happy to.
[43:29.430 --> 43:40.050]  So, um, the leap second is very much analogous to the leap day, where the leap day is used to keep the calendar in sync as the earth revolves around the sun.
[43:40.290 --> 43:44.170]  We throw in an extra day to keep everything kind of in sync with the cosmos.
[43:44.570 --> 43:51.690]  Uh, the leap second is very similar to that, except it's trying to keep the earth's rotation about itself in sync.
[43:51.690 --> 44:00.370]  So, as the earth revolves about itself, we, we, we wobble and we slow down a little bit and we speed up a little bit as the seasons and everything changes.
[44:00.970 --> 44:06.890]  And, and periodically we have to throw an extra second in to keep everything in sync.
[44:06.890 --> 44:18.170]  But one of the problems with that is, is that it's not a known, it's not a known when, it's not a, I don't know when, it's almost like, uh, uh, it has to be done with astronomical observations.
[44:18.170 --> 44:28.370]  So, people with satellites or telescopes will look at the night sky and the, and the, and the sun and decide where we're at and, and periodically say, now we have to have a leap second.
[44:28.710 --> 44:41.530]  So, that's where all the big controversy was yesterday, was that, you know, they were calling it like the mini, mini Y2K because there was going to be this extra added second in the time scale.
[44:42.230 --> 44:49.790]  So, and, and there was a big concern that it was going to cause, you know, large markets to crash and, and, and on and on.
[44:50.490 --> 44:55.770]  Now, um, John, if you could explain really quick, uh, um, what's your interest in this, uh, as regards to what you do?
[44:56.470 --> 44:57.630]  Ah, yeah.
[44:57.690 --> 44:57.870]  Okay.
[44:58.010 --> 45:07.030]  First, I am, they actually, the, the, uh, leader of the time and frequency division services group for the National Institute of Standards and Technology.
[45:07.030 --> 45:16.170]  So, that's a, it's a long title to tell you that I am actually part of the government agency, federal government agency that does weights and measures.
[45:16.390 --> 45:17.830]  That's the National Institute of Standards.
[45:18.010 --> 45:22.710]  And so, we're the ones that decide how much is a kilogram and how long is a meter.
[45:22.930 --> 45:33.470]  And in my particular case, we decide and make atomic clocks, build the most accurate clocks that we can build and try to define how long is one second.
[45:33.470 --> 45:36.090]  And that's, that's how I'm involved in all this.
[45:36.870 --> 45:38.350]  So, how long is one second?
[45:38.430 --> 45:44.170]  Now, when you say accurate to one second, how, how, how, what, what, what fraction of a second could we be off by?
[45:44.270 --> 45:50.690]  I mean, you're, these atomic clocks that you, uh, you maintain there in Colorado, how, how accurate they are?
[45:50.790 --> 45:55.450]  Is it like one, you know, one minute per million years or a million?
[45:55.490 --> 45:56.530]  No, it's even better than that.
[45:56.770 --> 45:57.110]  Yeah.
[45:57.310 --> 45:57.510]  Yeah?
[45:57.690 --> 45:58.510]  Even better than that.
[45:58.630 --> 46:02.010]  It's, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's astonishing level of stability.
[46:02.010 --> 46:18.190]  We, we actually make clocks that have, uh, stability of one part and 10 to the 17, one part and 10 to the 18, which, which if it could last, and of course it wouldn't, it would not, it would only lose or gain one second in close to a billion years.
[46:19.970 --> 46:20.770]  Ridiculously accurate.
[46:21.090 --> 46:21.350]  I know.
[46:21.650 --> 46:22.550]  Ridiculously accurate.
[46:22.770 --> 46:27.890]  And, and you may ask why in the world, and that would probably be your next question, but I'm going to beat you to it.
[46:27.890 --> 46:34.610]  Why in the world would we need a clock that is that kind of level of accuracy to keep track of time of day?
[46:34.890 --> 46:36.490]  The answer is we don't.
[46:36.570 --> 46:38.890]  We don't need to keep track of the time of day.
[46:39.010 --> 46:49.890]  What we're really trying to do is define how long is one second because the definition of the second or the length of the second defines frequency, how many cycles per second.
[46:49.890 --> 47:02.530]  So everything from the 60 hertz that comes out of your wall socket to the, uh, the AM radio, FM radio, the television broadcast signal, all the way up to GPS.
[47:02.530 --> 47:06.330]  All of these are frequency generated devices.
[47:06.330 --> 47:14.990]  And the more accurately we can control the frequency, the better all of these technological frequency driven devices work.
[47:16.190 --> 47:29.030]  Hey, John, I've always wondered, I know, I know a lot of, uh, systems use GPS, um, uh, for, for timing, but because these time signals come down from the GPS that would, you know, the constellation of GPS satellites.
[47:29.250 --> 47:33.110]  And I know the cell phone networks provide precise, precise timing, but they're linked to GPS.
[47:33.770 --> 47:41.750]  Does the GPS system derive its timing from the clocks at the National Institute of Standards of Technology, or do they have their own clocks on board the satellites?
[47:41.750 --> 47:43.490]  They actually do both.
[47:43.650 --> 47:44.710]  They have their own clocks.
[47:44.910 --> 47:48.510]  There's actually four atomic clocks on every GPS satellite.
[47:49.050 --> 48:01.610]  And, but those clocks are continuously monitored, uh, and corrected if need be by the United States Naval Observatory, which is kind of our sister organization in all of this.
[48:01.750 --> 48:07.310]  They're, they're the ones that do the military and we do the civilian side of timing.
[48:07.310 --> 48:22.750]  Um, and if you remember, um, and if you remember the GPS satellite system was originally a military system, it's only been taken over, taken over by the, by the, uh, the, the, the rest of the, you know, the private citizens.
[48:23.650 --> 48:31.470]  I think GPS has caught on far more wildly than, than anybody would have imagined, uh, what, 15, 20 years ago.
[48:31.470 --> 48:32.490]  Oh, absolutely.
[48:32.790 --> 48:33.210]  Absolutely.
[48:33.210 --> 48:40.290]  It is, it is, it is completely revolutionized many aspects of not only our life, but, you know, a lot of our technology.
[48:40.570 --> 48:45.110]  So much so that the, that the military kind of had to let it go.
[48:45.750 --> 48:47.110]  That was their baby.
[48:47.390 --> 48:49.670]  That was their technological wonder.
[48:49.930 --> 48:58.930]  And it became such a, uh, uh, uh, ingrained in our public that, uh, they kind of just had to back off and, and, and, and, and, and give it up.
[48:59.290 --> 49:00.090]  Rather like the internet.
[49:00.230 --> 49:02.490]  I remember the, the military used, yeah.
[49:02.690 --> 49:03.350]  Yeah, I guess so.
[49:03.430 --> 49:11.170]  But I remember when the military used to, uh, sort of futz the, uh, the bits with the, uh, uh, when the GPS satellite, so you, you couldn't get a really accurate fix.
[49:11.310 --> 49:11.830]  It would be off.
[49:11.910 --> 49:12.250]  That's right.
[49:12.750 --> 49:13.690]  Quote, quote, quote, quote, quote, quote a distance.
[49:14.070 --> 49:17.650]  And I guess commercial interests kept clamoring for better and better accuracy.
[49:17.970 --> 49:21.030]  And, and the military, I guess, just had to buckle on that.
[49:21.210 --> 49:27.910]  And I think the, uh, I have a cell phone that receives both the GPS and the, uh, the Russian GLONASS satellite signals.
[49:27.910 --> 49:36.970]  And, um, I guess they have both, uh, buckled into providing, uh, really accurate, um, signals for, for the whole world.
[49:37.330 --> 49:38.810]  Yes, you got that exactly right.
[49:38.910 --> 49:42.110]  What they used to do was had two signals.
[49:42.270 --> 49:49.190]  They have the P1 or the P2 signals and, and, and the L1 and L2 and what they'd used to, they called it dithering.
[49:49.190 --> 50:06.250]  They would actually make the atomic clocks on the, on board those, um, wander and change, uh, erratically in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a fashion that would, would not allow your, your, your GPS location device to get within more than 30 meters.
[50:06.250 --> 50:25.170]  But then main, I think the main force that did this is when the FAA, uh, Federal Aviation Administration, decided that they were going to start using the GPS satellites in commercial airplanes and bringing planes into getting them just close to the runway before the pilot would take over.
[50:25.550 --> 50:29.470]  Once that started happening, it, it, the military didn't stand a chance.
[50:29.470 --> 50:32.590]  It was like, no, we need these for life and safety.
[50:32.750 --> 50:35.910]  And so no more dithering, no more messing with the clocks.
[50:36.310 --> 50:47.790]  The, the military still claims that they have the right to do this, but I can almost guarantee they will, they, unless we were in all out war, I can't imagine them ever, ever messing with the GPS signal again.
[50:48.890 --> 50:50.410]  So John, back to the leap second.
[50:50.610 --> 51:00.330]  I, I actually listened to the leap second announcement, um, or listened to, you know, I have a shortwave radio, so I was listening to, uh, 10 megahertz, the propagation here in Philadelphia, it wasn't too bad.
[51:00.410 --> 51:08.630]  So I was able to hear both WWV there and, uh, or Collins and also, um, uh, WWVH, which is in Hawaii.
[51:08.790 --> 51:10.190]  I could hear both stations.
[51:10.630 --> 51:11.030]  Yeah.
[51:11.210 --> 51:11.870]  Sometimes you're lucky.
[51:11.950 --> 51:13.090]  You can hear, you can hear both.
[51:13.210 --> 51:21.590]  And some of our listeners may know that there's a male announcer, a recorded male announcer on the WWV and a female announcer on WWVH.
[51:21.690 --> 51:26.590]  Who is that female announcer on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on this Hawaiian time station?
[51:26.590 --> 51:32.970]  Like, yes, that was actually, was recorded back in the sixties by a very famous woman who did lots of voiceovers.
[51:33.130 --> 51:34.230]  Her name was Jane Barbie.
[51:34.530 --> 51:36.730]  Maybe some of you folks might've heard that name before.
[51:36.910 --> 51:38.210]  And I actually have that clip here.
[51:38.290 --> 51:40.970]  We don't have a lot of time left, so I'll try and get this in really quick.
[51:41.230 --> 51:42.350]  Uh, here it is.
[51:46.100 --> 51:48.180]  Three, two, one.
[51:48.480 --> 51:49.780]  Your attention, please.
[51:50.140 --> 52:01.500]  At the recommendation of the International Time Bureau, a leap second will be inserted in the time broadcast of radio stations WWV, WWVH, and WWVB.
[52:01.760 --> 52:13.260]  Commencing at 23 hours, 59 minutes, 60 seconds UTC on June 30th, 1981, an extra second will be inserted into the MBS time scale.
[52:13.600 --> 52:24.780]  This adjustment is required to maintain internationally coordinated universal times as broadcast from these stations in close agreement with UQ1 or astronomical times.
[52:25.540 --> 52:25.900]  Aloha.
[52:26.040 --> 52:26.260]  Aloha.
[52:29.130 --> 52:29.490]  Aloha.
[52:29.490 --> 52:29.870]  That's wonderful.
[52:30.330 --> 52:36.550]  Yeah, and, uh, you might recognize her voice from, uh, phone recordings, uh, going back to, uh, ancient times.
[52:36.830 --> 52:40.310]  She, she is the one who has told you if you'd like to make a call to please hang up and try again.
[52:42.010 --> 52:43.210]  She is the one who did that?
[52:43.570 --> 52:43.930]  She did tens of thousands of those.
[52:44.250 --> 52:44.610]  Yep.
[52:44.770 --> 52:45.710]  She did tens of thousands.
[52:45.870 --> 52:52.270]  She did all kinds of recordings for, for all of Ma Bell, for the old Ma Bell, and for a lot of banks all across.
[52:52.270 --> 52:53.130]  The time is.
[52:53.350 --> 53:00.450]  She, she, her, her voice was considered the epitome of, of, of, of perfect inflection and, and efficiency, I think.
[53:00.850 --> 53:03.110]  Right, and it's kind of sad because she's...
[53:03.110 --> 53:03.890]  So, John, you're the station manager.
[53:04.390 --> 53:08.370]  So, it's kind of sad because she's been replaced by a robot like so many other people these days.
[53:08.590 --> 53:10.490]  And the current announcements are computer generated.
[53:11.370 --> 53:11.590]  Wow.
[53:12.870 --> 53:18.330]  So, John, you're, um, you're almost the station manager of WWV out there in Colorado, right?
[53:19.010 --> 53:21.070]  That's correct, as well as the one in Hawaii.
[53:21.850 --> 53:23.130]  Oh, you manage both of them.
[53:23.210 --> 53:23.390]  Okay.
[53:23.590 --> 53:25.290]  So, if listeners want to hear...
[53:25.290 --> 53:25.350]  I run both.
[53:25.710 --> 53:26.130]  Got it.
[53:26.270 --> 53:34.310]  So, if our listeners here want to hear this, either of these radio stations that broadcast time of day and related information just 24-7.
[53:34.550 --> 53:36.930]  I've always been fascinated by these stations since I was a kid.
[53:37.210 --> 53:40.350]  They can hear them on shortwave, but they can also hear them over the phone.
[53:40.530 --> 53:40.910]  Is that right?
[53:41.450 --> 53:42.310]  That is correct.
[53:42.310 --> 53:42.430]  That is correct.
[53:42.550 --> 53:52.330]  You can actually dial, uh, 303-499-7111 to get the time of day here in, uh, Fort Collins.
[53:52.930 --> 53:55.890]  Or you can, let's see if I've got that number in front of me.
[53:55.930 --> 53:57.090]  I don't have that one memorized.
[53:58.650 --> 53:59.090]  Um...
[54:00.230 --> 54:01.970]  No, I'm sorry, folks.
[54:01.990 --> 54:04.770]  I don't have the one for Hawaii in front of me.
[54:04.770 --> 54:05.970]  I actually have it right here.
[54:06.310 --> 54:07.870]  I have it right here, Hawaii.
[54:08.530 --> 54:14.090]  Area code 808-335-4363.
[54:14.210 --> 54:16.050]  And that's the one with Dave Barby's voice on it.
[54:16.250 --> 54:17.910]  And on shortwave, you can hear it on...
[54:17.910 --> 54:20.410]  What frequencies on shortwave can you hear these stations, John?
[54:21.150 --> 54:30.670]  At 2.5 MHz, 5 MHz, 10 MHz, 15 MHz, and in Fort Collins, you can hear both 20 and 25 also.
[54:30.950 --> 54:31.730]  Okay, and we'll, uh...
[54:31.730 --> 54:33.730]  2.5, 5, 10, 15, and 25.
[54:34.070 --> 54:36.230]  I'm gonna have to stop you guys there, because we're running out of time.
[54:36.410 --> 54:37.930]  But, uh, yeah, send us email.
[54:38.130 --> 54:40.130]  OTH at 2600.com.
[54:40.690 --> 54:42.770]  And, uh, we will be back next week.
[54:42.770 --> 54:43.650]  I'd like to thank our guests.
[54:47.910 --> 54:48.530]  We've heard from tonight.
[54:49.230 --> 54:50.750]  Um, for Off the Hook, this is Rob T.
[54:50.850 --> 54:51.170]  Firefly.
[54:51.350 --> 54:53.710]  Go to your local 2600 meeting everywhere this Friday.
[54:54.470 --> 54:55.590]  Um, have a good night.
[55:03.200 --> 55:04.400]  She came from Greece.
[55:04.620 --> 55:05.940]  She had a thirst for knowledge.
[55:06.480 --> 55:09.120]  She studied sculpture at St. Martins College.
[55:09.560 --> 55:11.200]  That's where I...
[55:12.900 --> 55:13.740]  Caught her eye.
[55:17.140 --> 55:19.720]  She told me that her dad was loaded.
[55:20.500 --> 55:23.040]  I said, in that case, I have rum and Coca-Cola.
[55:23.040 --> 55:24.140]  She said, fine.
[55:26.560 --> 55:33.340]  And then in 30 seconds time, she said, I want to live like common people.
[55:34.220 --> 55:37.460]  I want to do whatever common people do.
[55:37.960 --> 55:40.540]  I want to sleep with common people.
[55:41.200 --> 55:43.940]  I want to sleep with common people.
[55:44.360 --> 55:45.140]  Like you.
[55:46.480 --> 55:48.540]  What else could I do?
[55:48.740 --> 55:51.820]  I said, I'll see what I can do.
[55:55.790 --> 55:57.860]  I took her to a supermarket.
[55:58.920 --> 56:02.250]  I don't know why, but I had to start it somewhere.
[56:04.400 --> 56:06.270]  So it started... there.
[56:09.160 --> 56:11.380]  I said, pretend you've got no money.
[56:12.320 --> 56:15.480]  But she just laughed, and said, you're so funny.
[56:16.140 --> 56:16.780]  Yeah.
[56:17.340 --> 56:17.980]  Yeah.
[56:17.980 --> 56:20.940]  Well, I can't see anyone else smiling in here.
[56:22.900 --> 56:25.720]  Are you sure you want to live like common people?
[56:26.700 --> 56:29.700]  You want to see whatever common people see?
[56:29.980 --> 56:32.200]  You want to sleep with common people?
[56:32.740 --> 56:36.360]  You want to sleep with common people, like me?
[56:36.360 --> 56:38.660]  But she didn't understand.
[56:39.400 --> 56:42.820]  She just smiled, and held my hand.
[56:45.850 --> 56:47.510]  Rent a flat above the shop.
[56:48.590 --> 56:50.850]  Cut your hair, and get a job.
[56:51.850 --> 56:54.650]  Smoke some fags, and play some pool.
[56:55.730 --> 56:57.650]  Pretend you never went to school.
[56:58.830 --> 57:00.750]  But still, you'll never get it right.
[57:01.410 --> 57:07.570]  Because when you're laid in bed at night, watching roaches climb the wall, If you called your daddy, he could stop it all.
[57:13.590 --> 57:15.930]  You'll never live like common people.
[57:16.770 --> 57:19.590]  You'll never do whatever common people do.
[57:19.590 --> 57:26.350]  You'll never let your life slide out of view.
[57:26.690 --> 57:29.010]  And then dance and drink and screw.
[57:30.030 --> 57:32.450]  Because there's nothing else to do.
[57:50.020 --> 57:51.640]  Get down, King Knight.
[58:03.950 --> 58:06.650]  Sing along with the common people.
[58:07.330 --> 58:10.430]  Sing along, and it might just get you through.
[58:11.030 --> 58:13.630]  Laugh along with the common people.
[58:14.330 --> 58:17.410]  Laugh along, and they are laughing at you.
[58:17.690 --> 58:19.790]  And those stupid things that you do.
[58:20.090 --> 58:22.750]  Because you think, that good is cool.
[58:27.350 --> 58:29.470]  I want to live with common people.
[58:42.970 --> 58:43.910]  Like you!
[58:43.910 --> 58:46.310]  I want to live with common people.
[58:46.670 --> 58:47.450]  Like you.
[58:57.590 --> 58:59.790]  Like you.
[59:00.230 --> 59:01.050]  Oh yeah.