[00:00.000 --> 00:04.020]  ...for acceptance or rejection on September 24th, 2015.
[00:04.580 --> 00:15.760]  If any are approved by the PNB, local station delegates' assemblies will have until no later than November 22nd, 2015, to take them up for acceptance or rejection.
[00:19.650 --> 00:25.950]  And you are listening to radio station WBAI New York, where the time is just about 7 o'clock.
[00:25.990 --> 00:28.830]  That means it's time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[00:36.590 --> 00:38.910]  ...so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:39.830 --> 00:41.870]  I cut myself while shaving.
[00:42.370 --> 00:44.490]  Now I can't make a cough.
[00:45.150 --> 00:47.210]  We couldn't get much worse.
[00:49.870 --> 00:52.670]  ...but the best is back from worst.
[00:53.250 --> 00:55.170]  I hope that's understood.
[00:55.510 --> 00:56.210]  ...but the Lippo!
[02:06.580 --> 02:10.200]  And the very good evening to ride the program is Off the Hook.
[02:10.440 --> 02:14.720]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday, Wednesday evening.
[02:15.780 --> 02:17.880]  ...joined tonight by Mike...
[02:17.880 --> 02:18.380]  ...evening.
[02:18.460 --> 02:19.020]  Happy Holidays.
[02:19.480 --> 02:20.100]  ...Happy Holidays.
[02:20.380 --> 02:20.860]  That's right.
[02:21.100 --> 02:22.480]  And Rob T.
[02:22.740 --> 02:23.180]  Firefly...
[02:23.180 --> 02:23.740]  ...Good evening.
[02:23.940 --> 02:24.500]  Happy Holidays.
[02:24.940 --> 02:26.020]  Are we all going to say the same thing?
[02:26.480 --> 02:26.920]  Kyle?
[02:27.600 --> 02:27.960]  Present.
[02:28.740 --> 02:29.120]  ...right.
[02:29.380 --> 02:29.920]  Well, that's...
[02:29.920 --> 02:31.020]  ...that's a holiday present.
[02:31.040 --> 02:32.520]  ...refreshingly different holiday present.
[02:32.600 --> 02:32.900]  Yeah, okay.
[02:32.940 --> 02:33.860]  And Bernie S.
[02:34.040 --> 02:35.960]  joins us from someplace...
[02:35.960 --> 02:37.280]  ...Greetings from Pennsylvania.
[02:37.540 --> 02:37.600]  Okay.
[02:37.600 --> 02:39.140]  ...and I have no holidays to celebrate.
[02:39.460 --> 02:40.340]  Oh, yes, you do.
[02:40.540 --> 02:42.000]  The holidays are for everybody, so...
[02:42.000 --> 02:44.100]  I mean, not right now, I don't, at this moment.
[02:44.240 --> 02:48.260]  Well, take the day off, or something, or stop eating, or whatever you feel like.
[02:49.020 --> 02:53.200]  Unless you count the Pope coming to Philadelphia in a day or so.
[02:53.200 --> 02:57.320]  Well, I'm glad you mentioned that, because, you know, it's not Pope traffic out there today.
[02:57.500 --> 02:59.360]  I don't know, I guess it's UN traffic.
[02:59.580 --> 03:08.920]  Whose idea was it to have the UN, everybody from all around the world come to the UN, like they do every now and then, and the Pope, in the same damn week?
[03:08.920 --> 03:10.420]  Isn't the Pope going to the UN?
[03:10.660 --> 03:12.780]  He's going to the... Okay, he's going to address those people.
[03:12.960 --> 03:17.900]  I guess maybe that's why they did it that way, but still, it's really, really annoying traffic-wise.
[03:18.260 --> 03:20.060]  I just got here one minute ago.
[03:20.700 --> 03:37.480]  And, you know, since all the conservatives are declaring war on the Pope because of his progressive stances on such controversial things as, oh, I don't know, climate change, change, maybe we could also get them to condemn the sun, because the sun has been attacking us every time we drive in,
[03:37.620 --> 03:39.120]  Kyle and I from Long Island.
[03:39.320 --> 03:45.040]  It's just right there in front of us, blinding us, and completely oblivious to the fact that it's messing up traffic.
[03:45.180 --> 03:47.540]  I think it's actually really having an effect on a lot of people.
[03:47.680 --> 03:56.660]  There were several, like, pretty, I don't know, complicated, all the way on the inside, having to move an accident all the way across lanes.
[03:56.820 --> 03:58.920]  It was really ridiculous.
[03:59.580 --> 04:02.040]  That's actually kind of normal for the LIE.
[04:02.360 --> 04:04.220]  But, yeah, it did have an effect.
[04:04.400 --> 04:08.580]  If you're out there driving, or even walking, be careful because the sun is really in a bad mood.
[04:08.760 --> 04:09.140]  It is.
[04:09.220 --> 04:10.160]  It's really upset.
[04:10.420 --> 04:12.660]  I want to hear what Trump has to say about that.
[04:12.920 --> 04:14.680]  I'm sure there's some thoughts.
[04:14.820 --> 04:17.080]  But we'll have to get to that at a future time.
[04:17.240 --> 04:18.120]  We're going to do a lot of things.
[04:19.160 --> 04:19.840]  Don't do that.
[04:19.940 --> 04:20.360]  Oh, God.
[04:20.620 --> 04:22.660]  Do you really want his thoughts on this matter?
[04:22.700 --> 04:23.340]  You know what?
[04:23.340 --> 04:26.020]  I want to piss him off somehow so that he has to say, say something.
[04:26.220 --> 04:26.880]  How about that?
[04:27.420 --> 04:28.020]  No, no.
[04:28.220 --> 04:30.240]  You would feel better pissing off Donald Trump.
[04:30.460 --> 04:31.700]  Who can disagree with that?
[04:31.940 --> 04:32.900]  Bernie, I know you agree.
[04:34.600 --> 04:36.200]  Yeah, I kind of agree with that.
[04:36.300 --> 04:43.900]  But I think it's even more noteworthy that where the president usually stays in New York when he comes to a U.N.
[04:44.980 --> 04:53.780]  thing, because the Pope's going to be speaking at the U.N., as you just mentioned, the Waldorf Astoria is where the president of the United States usually stays.
[04:53.780 --> 04:58.900]  But it was recently sold to Chinese interests.
[04:59.440 --> 05:04.860]  So now the president is not going to stay there, ostensibly, because they're afraid of electronic surveillance in the hotel.
[05:05.680 --> 05:09.060]  Is that your analysis of this?
[05:09.160 --> 05:11.660]  Or have they actually said that's why they're not going to be staying there?
[05:11.780 --> 05:18.800]  The House has not said security is one of several concerns as to why the president's not staying there.
[05:18.940 --> 05:27.380]  But security experts, including people who have worked for the State Department diplomatic security branches, said they're worried about electronic surveillance.
[05:27.520 --> 05:32.360]  They just don't have any control over it there, as they would an American hotel.
[05:32.600 --> 05:33.180]  So anyway...
[05:33.180 --> 05:34.760]  So where is he staying?
[05:34.900 --> 05:36.220]  At the Motel 6 or something?
[05:36.460 --> 05:40.440]  You know, I'm not sure if they've... I'm sure somebody knows, but I don't know.
[05:40.520 --> 05:40.840]  He just...
[05:40.840 --> 05:47.280]  He will not be staying traditionally... He will not be staying at the traditional Waldorf Astoria anymore, because now it's owned by the Chinese.
[05:47.280 --> 05:49.920]  You know, he should stay at... You never go to the St. Mark's Hotel.
[05:50.440 --> 05:52.140]  It's actually quite nice.
[05:52.220 --> 05:53.440]  It's very convenient.
[05:54.160 --> 05:54.520]  And...
[05:54.520 --> 05:55.480]  On the corner there, yeah.
[05:55.640 --> 05:55.740]  Yeah.
[05:55.740 --> 05:56.420]  A nice hotel.
[05:56.700 --> 05:57.900]  I think you should check that out.
[05:58.380 --> 06:02.500]  He won't be able to take the entire entourage in with him, but he doesn't really need to.
[06:02.580 --> 06:03.420]  Where's the Pope staying?
[06:03.520 --> 06:04.120]  Does anybody know that?
[06:04.420 --> 06:05.720]  I think he's Airbnb-ing.
[06:06.080 --> 06:06.580]  Is he?
[06:07.320 --> 06:08.820]  I'm so glad I didn't sign up for that.
[06:08.920 --> 06:10.000]  Or a hostel or something.
[06:10.660 --> 06:11.020]  Wow.
[06:11.320 --> 06:11.600]  Okay.
[06:11.920 --> 06:12.160]  Yeah.
[06:12.300 --> 06:15.060]  Well, he is very humble, so that could very well be.
[06:15.300 --> 06:16.900]  I mean, do you want the answer?
[06:17.040 --> 06:17.320]  He's staying...
[06:17.320 --> 06:18.520]  Do you know, Mr. Know-it-all?
[06:18.600 --> 06:19.700]  You know where the Pope is staying tonight?
[06:19.740 --> 06:20.780]  He's staying at the Pope...
[06:20.780 --> 06:21.540]  Actually, not tonight.
[06:21.760 --> 06:23.360]  The Pope Embassy, whatever it's called.
[06:23.560 --> 06:26.520]  It's got a much fancier name than that, but the Vatican Consulate.
[06:26.520 --> 06:26.980]  Oh, Vatican City.
[06:27.080 --> 06:27.440]  That's right.
[06:27.460 --> 06:29.200]  They're their own country, so...
[06:29.200 --> 06:29.660]  And I imagine...
[06:29.660 --> 06:32.060]  And they have a consulate for the UN, so he's going to stay there.
[06:32.260 --> 06:33.820]  Assange it for the night, I guess.
[06:33.920 --> 06:34.480]  Is that the...
[06:34.480 --> 06:37.820]  Is that really... Is that really where this conversation's going?
[06:37.880 --> 06:38.120]  Yes.
[06:38.200 --> 06:39.160]  That's what you can do with language.
[06:39.160 --> 06:40.160]  That's how I do things.
[06:40.220 --> 06:44.880]  Hey, we have a guest coming up later on tonight from Maker Faire.
[06:45.020 --> 06:47.580]  We'll be talking with Sherry Huss, as we do every year at this time.
[06:47.700 --> 06:58.240]  And we'll also be giving away some tickets, pairs of tickets for those of you listeners who are anxious to attend the World Maker Faire in Queens this weekend coming up.
[06:58.640 --> 07:00.420]  That'll be coming up in just a little while.
[07:00.540 --> 07:03.300]  We have a few things to go over.
[07:04.680 --> 07:05.420]  Let's see.
[07:05.540 --> 07:06.520]  Where should we start?
[07:06.760 --> 07:12.400]  Well, we can talk about our friend, Ahmed Mohammed, who made the clock last week.
[07:12.480 --> 07:16.300]  Anybody have any new things to say about him?
[07:17.040 --> 07:31.660]  There have been some nice pictures circulating around of him standing next to a big pile of gadgets and parts and components and tech stuff that this groundswell of support for him has resulted in him being sent.
[07:31.900 --> 07:33.160]  And he looks happy.
[07:33.780 --> 07:34.280]  Yeah.
[07:34.440 --> 07:34.820]  Yeah, definitely.
[07:35.080 --> 07:45.540]  And after the show last week, when we talked about this a bit, he got even more attention from... I think Obama invited him to the White House and...
[07:45.920 --> 07:48.340]  I heard that he's not attending the same school anymore, too.
[07:48.460 --> 07:49.220]  That's a development.
[07:49.360 --> 07:50.440]  He dropped out of school.
[07:50.760 --> 07:51.680]  Yeah, way to go.
[07:52.580 --> 07:55.920]  And he managed to piss off Sarah Palin.
[07:56.020 --> 07:57.240]  So that's another feather in his cap.
[07:57.980 --> 07:58.160]  Yes.
[07:58.520 --> 07:59.380]  So Bristol Palin.
[07:59.660 --> 08:01.080]  And Bristol Palin, too.
[08:01.540 --> 08:01.560]  Bristol Palin.
[08:01.560 --> 08:02.880]  No, not Sarah Palin.
[08:02.980 --> 08:03.260]  Bristol Palin.
[08:03.260 --> 08:03.760]  Oh, no, no.
[08:03.820 --> 08:04.840]  He pissed off Sarah Palin.
[08:04.880 --> 08:06.280]  You should have read her comments.
[08:06.280 --> 08:07.220]  Oh, really?
[08:07.300 --> 08:07.840]  She said, too.
[08:07.940 --> 08:08.060]  Okay.
[08:08.140 --> 08:12.000]  Because Bristol Palin was yapping about Muhammad as well.
[08:12.400 --> 08:12.600]  Uh-huh.
[08:13.760 --> 08:14.160]  Yeah.
[08:14.340 --> 08:17.340]  Well, and he had a number of rather good quotes himself.
[08:18.300 --> 08:19.960]  I'm trying to find one of them.
[08:21.140 --> 08:27.720]  We should point out, I think last he said he wasn't dropping out of school so much as he was looking for a school to transfer to.
[08:27.860 --> 08:28.880]  So they're looking at things for him.
[08:29.040 --> 08:29.240]  Yeah.
[08:29.240 --> 08:35.560]  It was more of a switching schools, maybe to one that has a little bit different view of this or perhaps more...
[08:35.560 --> 08:36.760]  Maybe he has some grown-ups working there.
[08:36.940 --> 08:37.340]  Yes.
[08:37.500 --> 08:39.940]  Maybe lots of STEM programs or something.
[08:40.620 --> 08:40.920]  Yeah.
[08:41.000 --> 08:43.220]  I'm looking for the quote.
[08:43.320 --> 08:44.520]  I thought it was in this story someplace.
[08:46.220 --> 08:48.500]  Concerning his message to other kids.
[08:48.700 --> 08:49.120]  Oh, here it is.
[08:50.940 --> 08:51.560]  Let's see.
[08:51.620 --> 08:59.220]  He wanted to use this moment in the spotlight to try my best, not just to help me, but to help every kid in the entire world that has a problem like this.
[09:00.080 --> 09:05.460]  The problem not being creative, the problem being misunderstood by those people around you.
[09:05.460 --> 09:17.980]  And I think those of us in the hacker community can understand that quite intensely sometimes where people just don't get it or they think you're up to something when you're not or they just view you with suspicion.
[09:18.140 --> 09:22.120]  Well, some people get that 24 hours a day because of the color of their skin or their religion.
[09:23.320 --> 09:25.520]  We have a taste of it, a small taste of it.
[09:25.580 --> 09:28.080]  And it's something we need to all help each other with.
[09:28.260 --> 09:33.240]  So, uh, I hope he, um, I hope he releases the plans for the clock too.
[09:33.380 --> 09:40.280]  I'd love to, uh, I'd love to have a, uh, a party or something where people make the clock and then go to school with it.
[09:40.560 --> 09:41.560]  I have a message.
[09:41.760 --> 09:48.560]  There are people on the internet who are saying his clock is insufficiently fancy and I have a message for them and the message is shut up.
[09:49.860 --> 09:50.400]  Thank you.
[09:50.400 --> 09:50.640]  Yeah.
[09:50.760 --> 09:56.860]  I'm sure there's going to be all kinds of, um, uh, I guess, uh, modifications made to it to make it even better clock.
[09:57.660 --> 09:58.660]  Um, yeah.
[09:58.680 --> 09:59.640]  And that's fine.
[09:59.660 --> 10:04.600]  But the people are saying, you know, he doesn't deserve the attention because he didn't do enough soldering or this, that, or the other.
[10:04.840 --> 10:07.420]  Those people just need to shut up and move on with their lives.
[10:07.680 --> 10:08.320]  He made it over breakfast or something.
[10:08.540 --> 10:09.140]  It was insane.
[10:09.560 --> 10:09.780]  20 minutes.
[10:09.940 --> 10:11.180]  He said he did it in 20 minutes.
[10:11.300 --> 10:12.040]  That's not bad.
[10:12.200 --> 10:13.980]  And then, you know, people are asking, well, why?
[10:14.100 --> 10:14.860]  Why did he do that?
[10:14.940 --> 10:20.300]  You know, it's the same, same basic mentality that people would say, why print the plans for a red box?
[10:20.300 --> 10:20.900]  Or a blue box?
[10:21.020 --> 10:22.060]  What could you possibly do with it?
[10:22.140 --> 10:23.600]  Well, I know about credit card algorithms.
[10:24.300 --> 10:24.660]  Why?
[10:24.660 --> 10:25.660]  It's something to do.
[10:25.960 --> 10:28.120]  Maybe even a bit of mischief is involved.
[10:28.340 --> 10:29.060]  You're 14.
[10:29.140 --> 10:30.520]  You do these kinds of things.
[10:30.760 --> 10:31.680]  And you know what?
[10:32.020 --> 10:37.440]  Steve Wozniak did something very similar when he was growing up and, um, he turned out pretty good and he didn't get arrested.
[10:37.760 --> 10:49.240]  Actually, he got held in juvie a little bit, but, uh, he taught people there how to zap the guards or something with an electric... I don't know what he, what he did exactly, but it was, um, something that this guy could not get away with.
[10:49.360 --> 10:49.480]  Yeah.
[10:49.620 --> 10:50.760]  I mean, why privily just pretty good.
[10:50.900 --> 10:51.240]  It is.
[10:51.240 --> 10:52.240]  It really is.
[10:53.000 --> 10:53.560]  All right.
[10:53.700 --> 10:55.140]  Um, what else?
[10:55.140 --> 11:06.660]  We have, uh, a letter from a listener, uh, who writes, not only can the police find the location of your cell phone, they can access the videos on the phone.
[11:06.740 --> 11:07.180]  Did you know this?
[11:07.300 --> 11:09.680]  There was a missing person alert the other day in North Jersey.
[11:09.880 --> 11:20.500]  Uh, they had remotely viewed a video on the phone made at 1600 hours and found that the GW bridge was in the background of the Palisade Cliffs and thus centered the search in that area.
[11:20.880 --> 11:26.400]  Now, this is in addition to the well-known GPS location of the phone that would, um, um, also be recorded.
[11:26.860 --> 11:29.760]  I'm sure there was no indication on the phone that it is being accessed.
[11:30.000 --> 11:30.680]  Thanks, Jim C.
[11:30.880 --> 11:32.540]  for writing in and telling us about that.
[11:32.640 --> 11:40.000]  And I guess, uh, I didn't know that the videos on my phone can be accessed remotely if I'm, uh, ever under suspicion of something.
[11:40.260 --> 11:41.000]  Bernie, didn't you know that?
[11:41.880 --> 11:44.640]  Um, well, I just, I guess it would depend on the phone.
[11:44.720 --> 11:47.560]  Did the article say what kind of phone it was and what carrier it was on?
[11:47.700 --> 11:48.260]  You know what?
[11:48.320 --> 11:50.880]  They, they neglected that information as they usually do.
[11:50.980 --> 11:52.360]  Actually, there wasn't even an article.
[11:52.520 --> 11:54.800]  It was, um, our, our listener writing in to tell us about this.
[11:54.920 --> 11:57.780]  So maybe there's an article somewhere that will detail it.
[11:58.300 --> 12:08.560]  Well, we've seen, uh, we've seen things like iCloud go, uh, sour for people who thought their, uh, photos and videos and things on it were private and ended up getting leaked or posted because of all sorts of reasons.
[12:08.740 --> 12:18.220]  And, uh, you know, this is what happens when people aren't fully aware of what's going on with their data, whether they have full control over it or whether their, uh, their appliances are just sending it off to wherever.
[12:18.480 --> 12:18.880]  Yeah.
[12:19.120 --> 12:22.540]  Um, also I think an attribute of this is sort of interesting.
[12:22.760 --> 12:34.000]  It is like technically possible considering your device or video recorder is also a phone and it, or it's ostensibly connected to the networks, um, tied in.
[12:34.260 --> 12:42.360]  It's, it's, it's a matter of what software and reception, uh, to extract it and perhaps permissions to extract it.
[12:42.480 --> 12:54.300]  And even if, uh, bandwidth was prohibitively, uh, slow, you could make perhaps like a proxy copy, a lower resolution copy just to kind of see what the video is.
[12:54.440 --> 13:00.540]  Um, if you've ever sent an email and attached a photo and done like a smaller version, same thing could be done with video.
[13:00.720 --> 13:08.900]  You could just get a very low resolution version and have it kind of, um, uh, stolen away off of the phone without unbeknownst to the user.
[13:09.100 --> 13:11.460]  I mean, technically there's not much stopping you.
[13:11.560 --> 13:15.940]  It just is the know-how and, uh, implementation permissions of course and, and so on.
[13:16.720 --> 13:21.600]  I mean, it's, it's, it's irresponsible, uh, to speculate what happened here, but I'm going to do it anyway.
[13:21.820 --> 13:32.140]  Uh, and I, it would not surprise me to learn that this video was, uh, transferred by, uh, MMS or posted somewhere or something like that.
[13:32.240 --> 13:37.060]  And in that case, it would be a lot easier to get the video than to extract it directly from the phone.
[13:37.220 --> 13:44.480]  But without knowing more about the specifics of this case, it's, it's hard to say what exactly did happen.
[13:44.480 --> 13:52.740]  And in the technical environment we're all in, uh, most of our phones are running closed source or partially closed source operating systems, um, proprietary apps, things like that.
[13:52.860 --> 13:57.120]  And we honestly can't always be sure what they're doing or what they're not doing with or without our permission.
[13:57.300 --> 13:58.160]  I mean, all of us.
[13:58.520 --> 14:12.220]  And on the permission standpoint, a lot of permit, if you, if you install apps on your iPhone or whatever, you notice that a lot of those apps say, uh, this app must, uh, to run must have permission to access files and pictures and other things on your phone.
[14:12.640 --> 14:14.380]  And so there you go.
[14:14.480 --> 14:16.260]  A lot of people just say, yes, yes, yes.
[14:16.860 --> 14:18.240]  And then they've given permission.
[14:18.460 --> 14:21.980]  And I would add to what Rob said that also firmware for locked phones, right?
[14:22.140 --> 14:24.140]  I mean, that's, that's not stuff you're developing.
[14:24.340 --> 14:25.260]  It's not open source.
[14:25.340 --> 14:26.060]  It's firmware.
[14:26.300 --> 14:32.560]  The, the, the telephone is, um, is, is it's modified, I guess the carrier modifies it.
[14:32.620 --> 14:34.860]  I'm not quite sure how, I mean, the, the, they add their own flavors.
[14:35.040 --> 14:35.080]  Yeah.
[14:35.180 --> 14:35.400]  Yeah.
[14:35.520 --> 14:37.060]  And then they, they add their own stuff.
[14:37.160 --> 14:40.340]  That's why you get, you know, branded carrier apps and things.
[14:40.460 --> 14:41.920]  And you're like, okay, how do I delete this?
[14:42.040 --> 14:46.280]  And you know, it's stuff you don't want necessarily, but you're forced into it maybe because you bought it through your carrier.
[14:46.500 --> 14:50.580]  It's, I guess, another reason for unlocked phones, but yeah, I mean, that's even less control.
[14:50.780 --> 14:57.660]  And that is sort of in the realm of, uh, uh, uh, copyrighted and sort of licensed stuff that you really couldn't modify anyway.
[14:58.340 --> 15:11.620]  Uh, Bernie, I'm going to, uh, step in here now and act like a supervisor in a busy office and say that we have to let you go now, uh, only because, uh, we have a guest and we only have one phone line and you're on it right now and we need to kick you off it.
[15:12.120 --> 15:12.480]  Great.
[15:12.620 --> 15:21.860]  We'll have a great show and, uh, tell Sherry I said hi and, uh, I wish I could make it to Maker Faire this weekend, but, uh, I have other obligations, but I'm sure it'll be fun as it always is.
[15:21.940 --> 15:23.440]  You weren't at last Maker Faire either.
[15:24.080 --> 15:26.960]  I was there two years ago, I think, but, you know.
[15:27.080 --> 15:28.680]  This is turning into a habit, Bernie.
[15:28.980 --> 15:30.680]  Uh, we, we expect to see you at these events.
[15:31.480 --> 15:32.000]  All right.
[15:32.180 --> 15:32.680]  All right.
[15:32.860 --> 15:36.600]  Well, hopefully, uh, yes, please, uh, tune in and, uh, we'll, we'll speak with you next week.
[15:36.780 --> 15:40.880]  And while I am getting our guest, I'm handing this story to, uh, our, our panel over here.
[15:41.120 --> 15:45.880]  And hopefully you guys can, can, um, discuss that a little bit while I track down our guest.
[15:46.020 --> 15:46.520]  I could.
[15:46.660 --> 15:51.040]  Uh, there's also something else I'd like to do really quick because, uh, because I'm on the air and I've got a microphone in front of me.
[15:51.180 --> 15:52.540]  I asked one thing and you're going to do something else.
[15:52.580 --> 15:53.480]  Go ahead.
[15:53.560 --> 15:53.860]  Enjoy yourself.
[15:53.880 --> 16:00.060]  Well, see, there's a chance that, uh, at least one 365th of our audience was born today or on the day that they're listening to this.
[16:00.320 --> 16:04.440]  And there's something that I can do now that, uh, I might not have been so able to do before.
[16:04.860 --> 16:07.360]  And that's, uh, sing happy birthday to you.
[16:07.540 --> 16:08.660]  Happy birthday to you.
[16:08.820 --> 16:10.020]  Happy birthday, dear listener.
[16:10.180 --> 16:11.660]  Happy birthday to you.
[16:11.840 --> 16:13.860]  God's sake, Rob, what are you doing?
[16:14.080 --> 16:14.680]  The copyright?
[16:14.880 --> 16:15.120]  What the heck?
[16:15.160 --> 16:16.140]  Have you lost your mind?
[16:16.420 --> 16:16.820]  No.
[16:17.060 --> 16:18.900]  Well, you can't just go and sing that song.
[16:18.920 --> 16:20.360]  What the hell is wrong with you?
[16:20.620 --> 16:21.740]  No, it's okay.
[16:21.920 --> 16:22.340]  It's okay.
[16:22.480 --> 16:22.880]  You know, calm down.
[16:22.920 --> 16:23.440]  No, put that down.
[16:23.560 --> 16:24.000]  Calm down.
[16:24.340 --> 16:30.400]  Because, uh, what happened is a federal judge has just confirmed that that song is no longer protected under copyright.
[16:30.820 --> 16:43.760]  Ah, see, this is, this is a mistake that is, you're making a, uh, federal judge has confirmed that the particular people who claimed to own the copyright, uh, probably do not own it.
[16:43.900 --> 16:49.200]  Although I'm sure there'll be another series of appeals, but the judge does not confirm that it's in the public domain.
[16:49.300 --> 16:57.920]  A new rights holder could appear tomorrow and, and have to litigate that whole thing all over again, which is one of the problems with our, our copyright system.
[16:57.920 --> 16:58.460]  This is true.
[16:58.880 --> 17:04.900]  Um, no, a copyright, uh, filed by the Summie company in 1935 was, uh, was the root of all the trouble surrounding this song.
[17:05.020 --> 17:08.040]  It's that copyright, which has been acknowledged as no longer valid.
[17:08.240 --> 17:10.640]  So they're the, they're the original claimant or owner.
[17:10.900 --> 17:22.480]  They, they were the original, the original owners who were then, uh, who then had the rights bought by other agencies who had it bought by someone else who, uh, it eventually ended up in the, uh, or it was thought to have ended up in the hands of Warner chapel.
[17:22.940 --> 17:26.320]  Um, like one of the console, like media conglomerates.
[17:26.480 --> 17:26.640]  Yes.
[17:26.880 --> 17:30.040]  And, uh, and so that is no longer, they, that is no longer understood to be the case.
[17:30.260 --> 17:37.060]  Uh, a federal judge in Los Angeles ruled yesterday that, uh, Warner had been enforcing a copyright since 1988 when it bought Birch Shoe Group, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[17:37.520 --> 17:38.500]  Um, but judge George H.
[17:38.600 --> 17:45.700]  King ruled that a copyright followed by the Summie company in 1935 granted only the rights to specific piano arrangements of the music, not the actual song.
[17:46.500 --> 17:47.760]  So, uh, so there we are.
[17:47.840 --> 17:52.720]  Happy birthday is, uh, finally free after 80 years, said Randall Newman, an attorney for the plaintiffs in the suit.
[17:53.080 --> 17:59.380]  You know, Splotchgate and this in a week, you know, I, I think there's a connection.
[17:59.840 --> 18:07.440]  Splotchgate, of course, is what happened to us where, uh, trunk archive decided that, um, uh, the splotches on one of our covers belong to them.
[18:07.560 --> 18:11.660]  When in actuality, not only was it a ridiculous thing to argue about, they didn't even own the splotch.
[18:11.800 --> 18:17.300]  It, it was, it came from a, um, a public domain site, uh, where the artist said, go and use it and have fun.
[18:17.700 --> 18:20.080]  Uh, we got an apology from them actually last week.
[18:20.360 --> 18:22.960]  They, they, um, first of all, they said they were dropping the case.
[18:23.280 --> 18:36.760]  And then I got, um, uh, an email, an actual apology from their, uh, COO, which, um, we appreciate, we appreciate that, but we, and they said they were listening to the dialogue that was going on in the community and they were, they got something out of that.
[18:36.840 --> 18:37.440]  And I hope that's true.
[18:37.520 --> 18:38.600]  I hope they did get something out of that.
[18:38.700 --> 18:41.320]  I hope the dialogue continues because it needs to happen.
[18:41.580 --> 18:45.640]  The, the, the way things are in copyright right now is, is just, it's unbelievable.
[18:45.640 --> 18:55.880]  Some of the things that you can get away with as far as It's claiming rights to or restricting people from doing certain things, whether it's showing images or playing audio or video or anything.
[18:56.060 --> 18:57.580]  It'll turn into thoughts at some point.
[18:57.860 --> 19:00.140]  So the conversation is well underway.
[19:00.140 --> 19:01.160]  Let's continue it.
[19:01.300 --> 19:06.580]  I mean, and you had the advantage that all this stuff was done relatively recently and on the Internet and there are still records.
[19:06.580 --> 19:12.860]  I was reading some of the court decision in the Happy Birthday case, and these documents are 80 years old.
[19:12.860 --> 19:19.220]  Literally, no one has a copy of the work that they claim the copyright is from.
[19:19.380 --> 19:23.040]  Apparently, the Library of Congress lost it at some point in the intervening 80 years.
[19:23.720 --> 19:27.000]  And it's just insane, you know, all this stuff.
[19:28.660 --> 19:33.320]  I believe that the copyright claim is bogus, but there's really no way to know.
[19:34.360 --> 19:39.440]  Maybe it's a good claim and just all the documents got lost because they're 80 years old.
[19:39.600 --> 19:41.380]  It's just nuts.
[19:41.380 --> 19:44.500]  It's... and they've made millions of dollars off these lost documents.
[19:44.720 --> 19:47.020]  It's... I don't feel too bad for them, but...
[19:47.520 --> 19:51.500]  I would like to make millions of dollars off of 80 years of just claiming that something belongs to me that doesn't.
[19:51.600 --> 19:52.480]  Well, start now.
[19:54.100 --> 19:57.840]  Wait 50 years to make your first claim.
[19:58.040 --> 20:01.900]  And then, you know, probably enjoy 30 more years before anyone can jiggle the records.
[20:01.900 --> 20:10.740]  I think the people that have been benefiting from this over the last 80 years need to throw the rest of us a party with lots of birthday cake and all kinds of things like that.
[20:10.740 --> 20:12.660]  And then, of course, we'll sing the song too and do that.
[20:12.880 --> 20:16.540]  I mean, still to be determined in this case is the damages, so there may actually be some.
[20:16.720 --> 20:20.540]  You know, anyone who's given them money in the intermediate time might get that money back.
[20:20.540 --> 20:27.060]  The Girl Scouts have been living in fear of singing that song in the forest somewhere and having a copyright troll find them.
[20:27.060 --> 20:34.720]  Yeah, all the people who've written, like, alternate happy birthday songs like they sing in chain restaurants, those people, it's a bad day for them.
[20:34.780 --> 20:35.080]  Yes.
[20:35.260 --> 20:39.660]  Well, no, it's a good day for them because they look like damn idiots when they're doing that, so now they don't have to do that anymore.
[20:39.960 --> 20:44.540]  No, no, the singers it's a good day for, but the people who wrote those songs who are getting the alternate license fees.
[20:44.540 --> 20:44.820]  Oh.
[20:45.040 --> 20:45.180]  Yeah.
[20:45.540 --> 20:46.300]  Bad day for them.
[20:46.420 --> 20:46.560]  Let's see.
[20:46.940 --> 20:52.400]  Joining us on the telephone right now is the coordinator of World Maker Faire coming up this weekend in Queens, Sherry Huss.
[20:52.500 --> 20:53.160]  Sherry, welcome.
[20:54.540 --> 20:55.460]  Hi, everyone.
[20:55.580 --> 20:56.000]  How are you doing?
[20:56.300 --> 20:57.140]  We're doing great.
[20:57.300 --> 20:58.200]  We're doing amazing.
[20:58.420 --> 21:03.480]  And, you know, we're looking forward to the sixth, the sixth annual World Maker Faire.
[21:03.700 --> 21:05.680]  I can't believe it's been six years.
[21:06.320 --> 21:07.040]  I know.
[21:07.040 --> 21:07.800]  It's crazy, right?
[21:08.300 --> 21:10.540]  It's actually, it's really, it's quite wonderful.
[21:10.540 --> 21:13.560]  And we've got great weather.
[21:14.080 --> 21:16.000]  The setup looks beautiful this year.
[21:16.140 --> 21:18.600]  We've expanded over even more into the park.
[21:18.600 --> 21:23.520]  Um, we've, and actually even part into the parking lot on Terrace on the park.
[21:23.900 --> 21:24.460]  Wow.
[21:24.460 --> 21:32.800]  And what's even, even most wonderful this year is that we're doing the EpiBird, Coke, Zero, and Mentos shows in front of the Unisphere.
[21:34.100 --> 21:38.900]  So, Dale Doherty got his wish, which was the first year he's like, we have to hack the Unisphere.
[21:38.920 --> 21:40.260]  So, we're getting closer.
[21:41.340 --> 21:49.700]  But the most wonderful thing is on Friday at four o'clock in the park, especially for all the kids, which are really, it's great out here in Queens to see the kids.
[21:49.960 --> 21:51.400]  We'll be doing our first show.
[21:51.400 --> 21:56.040]  And then we'll be doing closing shows with them on Saturday and Sunday at six o'clock.
[21:56.360 --> 21:57.400]  So, we're pretty thrilled.
[21:57.900 --> 21:58.060]  Awesome.
[21:58.220 --> 21:59.680]  Well, we're really, really excited.
[22:00.040 --> 22:08.040]  We're obviously going and we're just packing up and getting ready to take a look at how to do that.
[22:08.120 --> 22:09.500]  And we found all this old stuff.
[22:09.580 --> 22:11.820]  We've been there four, I think, four or five times now.
[22:11.960 --> 22:12.540]  Yeah, almost every one.
[22:12.540 --> 22:13.240]  It's hard to believe.
[22:13.420 --> 22:14.500]  Almost every single one.
[22:14.720 --> 22:16.300]  So, it's a thrill for us, too.
[22:16.460 --> 22:17.700]  And we're looking forward to it.
[22:17.700 --> 22:25.260]  And, yeah, all these, any of the new changes and stuff like that will be something we'll be looking out for, too.
[22:25.340 --> 22:26.240]  It's really exciting.
[22:26.560 --> 22:29.180]  Sherry, I'm told there's something called a health tent this year.
[22:30.400 --> 22:31.220]  There is.
[22:31.620 --> 22:40.280]  We have got a whole area that is curated by Jose Marquez Gomez.
[22:41.520 --> 22:44.120]  Sorry, Jose Gomez Marquez.
[22:44.280 --> 22:44.680]  Okay.
[22:45.060 --> 22:45.640]  Too tired here.
[22:45.640 --> 23:03.280]  He's actually from MIT and he has put together, I think, that there's over, like, over a dozen folks that actually have kind of DIY either sensors or prosthetics or using technology to help through physical therapy, et cetera.
[23:03.420 --> 23:05.820]  So, we've actually, we're pretty excited about that.
[23:06.180 --> 23:10.880]  One of the things that I have to believe that you guys are going to be excited about is our whole drone zone.
[23:11.380 --> 23:12.660]  Yes, definitely.
[23:12.660 --> 23:19.120]  Which we are actually, yes, we are flying drones in a public, in New York Park's public park.
[23:19.300 --> 23:24.680]  However, we're doing it safely and we're doing it in an encaged cage.
[23:25.020 --> 23:32.720]  So, we have a race area that's 35 feet, 35 feet wide by 200 feet long.
[23:32.860 --> 23:34.740]  And it's almost 20 feet tall.
[23:34.960 --> 23:37.360]  It's actually quite an interesting structure that's going up.
[23:37.360 --> 23:39.960]  We have a 30 by 30 combat cage.
[23:41.180 --> 23:42.560]  DJI is going to be here.
[23:42.760 --> 23:50.040]  And then we'll have, I think we have about six or seven other smaller companies and makers that will be here with drones.
[23:50.040 --> 23:52.280]  So, we're pretty excited about that.
[23:52.380 --> 23:53.280]  That's a whole new area.
[23:53.440 --> 23:53.700]  Wow.
[23:53.880 --> 23:55.920]  Now, the cage, is that, was that your idea?
[23:55.920 --> 23:57.140]  Is that some kind of restriction?
[23:58.280 --> 24:06.180]  You know, well, actually, it's, it is illegal to fly a drone, which is probably about anywhere, but especially in a, in a public park.
[24:06.180 --> 24:09.780]  And we've been working with a group called Aerial Sports League.
[24:10.800 --> 24:17.900]  And Mark Kornblatt, who actually has been part of the Game of Drones guys, they have two parts to what they do.
[24:18.040 --> 24:19.000]  Game of Drones.
[24:19.740 --> 24:21.000]  Game of Drones, right.
[24:21.220 --> 24:23.980]  So, it's the Game of Drones guys, which are wonderful.
[24:24.000 --> 24:26.280]  Mark Kornblatt, who's one of the original founders.
[24:26.540 --> 24:28.040]  And you guys might like it.
[24:28.100 --> 24:33.720]  He started out with us 10 years ago in the Bay Area with Sparky, a telepresence robot.
[24:33.720 --> 24:38.920]  Then he went to, he was water boy for a number of years, which he had a water boy suit.
[24:39.320 --> 24:47.040]  And what, one year at Maker Faire Bay Area, Damien from OK Go actually performed in the water boy suit.
[24:47.480 --> 24:48.900]  And then Mark got into drones.
[24:49.220 --> 24:55.120]  And so they've been, he was actually here last year and had a smaller cage where they were doing combat.
[24:55.580 --> 24:59.960]  But this year we're starting to do racing and it's actually, it's quite wonderful.
[24:59.960 --> 25:03.860]  I think there's 22, I think over 22 pilots that are coming into race.
[25:05.220 --> 25:07.280]  What's the age range of these pilots?
[25:09.360 --> 25:11.000]  I, you know, that's a good question.
[25:11.000 --> 25:15.620]  I kind of think that they're, they're sort of young adults, like probably, you know, in the 18s.
[25:15.700 --> 25:22.140]  So I'd say Mark's probably, gosh, I don't know, maybe in late 30s, early 40s.
[25:22.660 --> 25:26.300]  So I think it's just, the age range is just quite a wide spectrum.
[25:27.020 --> 25:29.100]  How does a drone race work?
[25:29.420 --> 25:30.500]  Where do they race to?
[25:31.920 --> 25:35.700]  So they have, I think that they have, and this is where you're going to have to come and check it out.
[25:35.780 --> 25:42.960]  I'm not an expert here, but I do know that they have little sprints and they have, there's a board in the middle that they kind of fly through.
[25:42.960 --> 25:48.160]  So I think that they've got a course that they're kind of racing around and through.
[25:48.460 --> 25:51.060]  So that'll be the fun part to come and check out this weekend.
[25:51.200 --> 25:55.680]  And there's bleachers and it is out in the kind of the grassy area and zone four.
[25:55.840 --> 25:58.120]  But I suspect a lot of people will be out there.
[25:58.440 --> 26:01.420]  You also have a fly zone, so compressed air rockets.
[26:01.820 --> 26:08.560]  And then Brooklyn Aerodrome, which Breck Baldwin and his folks will be out in that area as well flying.
[26:08.560 --> 26:14.620]  So it's actually a wonderful, kind of a wonderful thing for the community.
[26:14.920 --> 26:25.500]  I also hear the folks from Hive 13, the hacker slash maker space in Cincinnati, they're going to be doing something involving power tool drag racing?
[26:25.660 --> 26:26.220]  Absolutely.
[26:26.480 --> 26:26.980]  Absolutely.
[26:27.460 --> 26:30.620]  So, and they will be in our new zone six.
[26:30.760 --> 26:34.900]  And this is the parking lot that I was talking to you about that is actually part of Terrace on the Park.
[26:34.900 --> 26:39.800]  So, in that area, we have a lot of exhibitions.
[26:39.800 --> 26:43.000]  So, we've got power tool drag racing, and they'll be doing that all day.
[26:43.400 --> 26:47.140]  We have the Life Size Mouse Trap is back, and they'll be out there.
[26:47.380 --> 26:50.480]  And in addition, we have the Power Wheels Racing Series.
[26:51.080 --> 26:58.780]  So, Jim Burke and Patrick Callahan, who were kind of the founders of that, that came out of Pumping Station One in Chicago.
[26:59.380 --> 27:04.300]  They have multiple groups that are bringing their little power wheels.
[27:04.300 --> 27:12.580]  And I think that the deal there is that you take one of the kids, those little kids kind of motorized cars, you can't spend more than $500.
[27:13.520 --> 27:20.060]  And they compete, but they're really doing it to try to teach people about electric vehicles, etc.
[27:20.180 --> 27:28.740]  So, it's kind of a real fun way for even kids to get involved in hacking and making and still learning about things at the same time.
[27:28.840 --> 27:33.260]  Sherry, what is the attendance usually at these things?
[27:35.160 --> 27:38.380]  Well, it continues to be...
[27:39.020 --> 27:40.080]  Sherry, you there?
[27:40.920 --> 27:41.540]  Uh-oh.
[27:42.840 --> 27:43.300]  Sure, it will.
[27:43.300 --> 27:43.640]  Cell phones.
[27:43.800 --> 27:43.960]  Okay.
[27:44.220 --> 27:45.560]  You faded out for a second.
[27:45.880 --> 27:46.400]  Are you there?
[27:46.680 --> 27:47.500]  Oh, sorry.
[27:48.020 --> 27:50.400]  Last year, we were about $85,000 over the weekend.
[27:50.560 --> 27:51.560]  $85,000?
[27:51.840 --> 27:52.320]  Wow.
[27:52.840 --> 27:53.080]  Mm-hmm.
[27:53.820 --> 27:57.780]  And I expect this year we'll probably be, you know, just shy of $100,000.
[27:58.400 --> 27:59.360]  That is amazing.
[27:59.560 --> 28:00.700]  That is really amazing.
[28:00.700 --> 28:10.060]  I mean, you know, Citi Field is just within sight, and the Mets could never hope to pull that number of people in for even a World Series game, which they might actually have.
[28:10.460 --> 28:12.960]  So, wow, that is simply amazing.
[28:13.320 --> 28:16.800]  Now, you've been doing this for six years now.
[28:17.080 --> 28:22.860]  What has, in your mind, changed in this community over that period of time?
[28:23.460 --> 28:23.880]  Yeah.
[28:24.120 --> 28:25.260]  I mean, that's a good question.
[28:25.260 --> 28:33.140]  I think one of the things that we've definitely seen, one area that's grown up, and especially with a New York audience, is the whole 3D printing area.
[28:33.420 --> 28:44.800]  So, that's definitely matured, and even though we have 3D printers in the Bay Area, we have a whole 3D printer village here that I think you're pretty well aware of, because you've been in that area.
[28:45.040 --> 28:54.060]  But it's nice to see kind of the whole ecosystem, and I think that there's probably no better show, and I think that there's a better representation in New York than even in the Bay Area.
[28:54.060 --> 28:57.940]  Yeah, the kinds of printers we saw were incredible.
[28:58.300 --> 29:01.180]  They have printers that can print things that are as big as a human.
[29:01.360 --> 29:07.440]  I mean, they're massive rep-raps and all this stuff, not just your typical cupcake CNC.
[29:07.780 --> 29:09.300]  So, it was really amazing.
[29:09.800 --> 29:24.580]  Yeah, it's been a real journey watching the 3D printers at Maker Faire specifically, watching that whole thing grow, because the whole thing has sprung basically from the Maker scene not that long ago, and it's just been growing by leaps and bounds to the point where at the beginning,
[29:24.660 --> 29:28.080]  you had a couple of hobbyists, and then you had small companies that sprung up.
[29:28.300 --> 29:30.920]  Some of them became huge companies.
[29:31.660 --> 29:40.300]  Other ones popped up, and they're all sort of showing off their wares on equal footing, and it's great to see all the interesting and cool things people are doing with them.
[29:41.280 --> 29:42.300]  Yeah, absolutely.
[29:42.660 --> 29:44.520]  So, that's definitely a key area.
[29:44.800 --> 29:55.620]  I think the whole, just sort of the flavor of makers, we've seen a lot more makers that are interested in kind of going the crowdsourcing or crowdfunding route, either through Kickstarter or Indiegogo.
[29:56.500 --> 30:00.440]  So, folks that are pitching ideas, and we'll have a startup zone.
[30:00.440 --> 30:05.740]  I think we had about 30, we'll have about 30, and I think that we picked from about 90 applications.
[30:06.220 --> 30:17.380]  And that's where we give them kind of, you know, we curate them and give them an area and kind of let them showcase what it is that they do and sort of brand it that way.
[30:18.420 --> 30:26.260]  Young Makers continues to grow, and we've got a beautiful tent for them, a kind of a crazy beautiful tent out on the grass.
[30:26.260 --> 30:30.180]  And so, we'll see a lot of Young Makers and Kid projects and activities.
[30:30.580 --> 30:33.040]  What's a typical Young Makers kid project?
[30:34.280 --> 30:50.440]  You know, it can be anywhere from, you know, anything with microcontrollers, like Arduino, Raspberry Pi, things like sensors, like little, like automate, you know, kids might be doing something to, you know, check if someone has come in to enter their room when they're not there.
[30:51.440 --> 30:53.980]  Just kind of like basic home automation things.
[30:53.980 --> 30:56.820]  But maybe some kids might be building some clocks.
[30:58.120 --> 31:05.520]  Well, I think actually we will have, we will have Ahmed and his family here as well over the weekend.
[31:05.720 --> 31:06.320]  No kidding.
[31:06.540 --> 31:07.300]  Ahmed's coming here.
[31:07.420 --> 31:07.780]  Absolutely.
[31:07.960 --> 31:08.720]  I did not know that.
[31:08.860 --> 31:09.800]  Wow, that's awesome.
[31:10.560 --> 31:11.980]  He should be a keynote speaker.
[31:12.220 --> 31:15.700]  And again, no, he's not, you know, he's a 14 year old.
[31:15.800 --> 31:33.380]  And so what we want to do is, you know, we're hoping that, you know, to some degree, he's out there kind of, again, who knows what the whole story is, but at least he's raising awareness and for other kids that want to create and make, just kind of making it accessible in more places.
[31:33.600 --> 31:42.740]  Do you find that happens a lot with the younger makers out there that they are viewed with some suspicion or adults might not understand what it is they're actually doing?
[31:44.720 --> 31:45.520]  Well, possibly.
[31:45.840 --> 31:48.760]  You know, again, we live, I'm from California and Bay Area.
[31:48.920 --> 31:52.460]  And so we have, you know, we're kind of used to this.
[31:52.560 --> 31:59.860]  But I think in other areas, what we really want to do is promote that it's okay to kind of to explore and do different things.
[32:00.120 --> 32:02.640]  And hopefully that we can start.
[32:02.640 --> 32:14.920]  We've got, and actually we have a whole education forum going on on Friday with folks that are really kind of figuring out like informal learning, getting making back into the classroom and those things.
[32:15.080 --> 32:21.920]  So we really want to just make sure that there's an environment for teachers and students and all to just make.
[32:22.120 --> 32:32.500]  And so our take on it is that, you know, we welcome everyone here and hopefully more and more kids and families will be inspired by making and getting hands on.
[32:32.640 --> 32:34.020]  This is going to be a little bit tricky, though.
[32:34.160 --> 32:38.320]  I mean, at the same time, we have the UN going on, we have the Pope in town and now Ahmed in town.
[32:38.500 --> 32:40.680]  So this is, traffic is going to be nuts.
[32:42.080 --> 32:42.400]  Absolutely.
[32:42.780 --> 32:42.900]  Yes.
[32:42.900 --> 32:44.140]  Although we're out in Queens.
[32:44.500 --> 32:47.800]  So I think that hopefully it'll be a little bit better.
[32:47.920 --> 32:50.940]  It might be a reason to stay out of Manhattan and come check out the park.
[32:51.540 --> 32:52.220]  Yes, yes.
[32:52.460 --> 32:53.940]  But other things, I'm trying to think what else.
[32:54.120 --> 32:55.380]  I mean, again, I'm really excited.
[32:55.700 --> 33:02.620]  We've opened up and today we did a kind of hands on and making for the local kids from one to four.
[33:03.480 --> 33:06.540]  And so kind of taking things out into the community, which I think truly is...
[33:06.540 --> 33:07.260]  One to four?
[33:07.520 --> 33:09.140]  There are one-year-old makers out there.
[33:10.020 --> 33:10.640]  Oh, no, no.
[33:10.760 --> 33:11.200]  I'm sorry.
[33:11.260 --> 33:12.660]  From one in the afternoon to four.
[33:12.780 --> 33:13.640]  Oh, okay.
[33:13.720 --> 33:14.500]  I totally misunderstood.
[33:15.140 --> 33:17.040]  Probably not one-year-old, maybe four-year-old makers.
[33:17.120 --> 33:18.260]  Yeah, I wouldn't be...
[33:18.260 --> 33:20.340]  If anybody could pull that off, it's you guys.
[33:20.660 --> 33:27.720]  Because, you know, the thing that I was amazed by the very first Maker Faire I went to was just seeing all the kids running around, everybody having fun.
[33:27.720 --> 33:29.760]  I don't think I've ever seen a single kid crying at Maker Faire.
[33:30.580 --> 33:36.720]  And that's basically building, experimenting, and it's one of the healthiest environments I've ever seen.
[33:37.180 --> 33:37.940]  I think so.
[33:38.040 --> 33:38.520]  I think so.
[33:38.580 --> 33:39.460]  I think you're absolutely right.
[33:39.800 --> 33:40.700]  We were able to...
[33:40.700 --> 33:43.800]  And actually, this year, we actually have some fire, which is always fun.
[33:43.800 --> 33:45.420]  We're meeting with the fire department tomorrow.
[33:45.420 --> 33:57.240]  But we have Robot Resurrection, which is about a 20-foot-tall statue or robot that's made out of reclaimed robot or airplane parts that shoots fire.
[33:57.460 --> 34:01.840]  And so that will be against the backdrop of the two rockets that are here.
[34:01.860 --> 34:03.760]  And then we have a fire organ as well.
[34:03.980 --> 34:07.000]  So I think there's nothing that kids like more than fire.
[34:07.180 --> 34:11.120]  And so the fire organ is such that you get to play, and it shoots fire.
[34:11.280 --> 34:12.140]  So that will be cool.
[34:12.140 --> 34:18.880]  I just think it's awesome you can say that and not be apologetic for saying kids are fascinated by fire, and here's an opportunity to...
[34:18.880 --> 34:22.300]  Yeah, that sort of sums it up.
[34:22.620 --> 34:24.440]  Yeah, that's Maker Faire.
[34:24.620 --> 34:28.480]  We have a beautiful mechanical horse that will be on the Rocket Roundabout.
[34:29.060 --> 34:32.680]  We have, you know, the founders, so Massimo from Arduino will be here.
[34:32.800 --> 34:34.640]  We've got Evan Upton from Raspberry Pi.
[34:35.340 --> 34:36.320]  We have...
[34:36.320 --> 34:37.500]  I don't know.
[34:37.560 --> 34:38.580]  It's just kind of fun.
[34:38.580 --> 34:43.280]  And this is sort of Maker Faire week and all the energy and everything is starting to mount.
[34:43.400 --> 34:45.660]  And so it's really wonderful.
[34:46.060 --> 34:49.720]  And it's kind of, again, as you said, it's a great audience.
[34:49.960 --> 34:56.220]  And even seeing a few of the makers are starting to come in and work on their projects and get them all ready.
[34:56.380 --> 34:57.840]  And it's pretty great.
[34:57.980 --> 35:00.100]  We saw a rocket ship landing earlier.
[35:00.320 --> 35:03.460]  So I think that's one of the makers on the way.
[35:04.380 --> 35:05.920]  MakerFaire.com is the website.
[35:05.960 --> 35:07.200]  That's fair with an E.
[35:07.200 --> 35:12.020]  And what are the exact hours and the exact location?
[35:13.360 --> 35:17.460]  So the hours are Saturday and Sunday, 10 a.m.
[35:17.540 --> 35:18.360]  to 6 p.m.
[35:18.700 --> 35:25.040]  We're located in Queens and actually on the side of the Old World Spareground, so at the New York Hall of Science.
[35:26.200 --> 35:29.020]  And if you go to Maker Faire, and that's fairwithan E.
[35:29.020 --> 35:37.680]  As you mentioned, .com, there's a whole area there that will say how to get here, transportation, where we're located, and how to plan for Maker Faire.
[35:38.460 --> 35:38.940]  Awesome.
[35:39.260 --> 35:40.680]  You guys still need volunteers?
[35:42.160 --> 35:43.580]  We always need volunteers.
[35:43.580 --> 35:45.280]  And we have a whole traveler program.
[35:45.400 --> 35:57.040]  So if you email either traveler or travelers at MakerFaire.com, you can actually help us out, help the community out, meet cool people, and get a couple tickets for free.
[35:58.080 --> 36:06.460]  And there's another way you can get some tickets for free, and that's if you participate in our contest we'll be having in just a few minutes here on WBAI.
[36:07.480 --> 36:11.660]  Any closing remarks, Sherry, for this upcoming event?
[36:12.460 --> 36:16.800]  No, I would just say again, this is our 10th year of doing Maker Faires.
[36:17.000 --> 36:25.040]  It's our 6th year in New York, and my team has produced 20 events over the past 10 years, like large-scale fairs.
[36:25.300 --> 36:32.780]  In addition, this year, what's really great is that Maker Faires, actually, there'll be 150 of them around the world, up from 130.
[36:33.200 --> 36:35.940]  And so it's really a community coming together.
[36:35.940 --> 36:43.320]  We'll have a lot of makers and Maker Faire producers from our international Maker Faire sites that'll be here.
[36:43.580 --> 36:53.760]  So it kind of feels like, you know, old home week, and just the same way as talking to you guys as well, and looking forward to seeing you and everyone and all the cool things that the makers are bringing on site.
[36:54.160 --> 36:54.600]  Amazing.
[36:54.940 --> 37:00.620]  What's one of the more interesting places that you've expanded to in the past year or two, as far as new Maker Faires?
[37:00.980 --> 37:05.600]  Well, we actually had, it wasn't huge, but we had one in Cairo, Egypt.
[37:06.300 --> 37:14.100]  Some of our bigger fairs have been Shenzhen, which is crazy great, because there's just a lot there for manufacturing.
[37:15.920 --> 37:18.120]  Big cities outside the U.S.
[37:18.260 --> 37:22.940]  are Rome, and that one's coming up in, gosh, I think about three weeks.
[37:23.220 --> 37:26.360]  And that'll definitely be over 100,000 in year three.
[37:26.920 --> 37:30.380]  Not this weekend, but next weekend, we'll have a Maker Faire in Berlin.
[37:30.380 --> 37:33.440]  So, we're kind of getting into Europe.
[37:33.440 --> 37:35.900]  We definitely have Asia-Pac covered.
[37:36.140 --> 37:41.840]  We're starting to see more interest in South America, and it's just kind of rolling.
[37:42.580 --> 37:43.420]  That's awesome.
[37:43.600 --> 37:44.200]  Great news.
[37:44.380 --> 37:50.660]  And if someone is interested in having a Maker Faire in their area, but there isn't one yet, who should they, how should they proceed?
[37:51.560 --> 37:53.800]  Yeah, actually, just go to MakerFaire.com.
[37:53.940 --> 37:56.000]  Our website's pretty easy to navigate.
[37:56.000 --> 38:02.540]  The first bar is, like, what's it about, Bay Area, New York, and then around the world.
[38:02.700 --> 38:05.580]  If you go to the around the world area, you'll get a calendar.
[38:06.040 --> 38:13.840]  It'll be information about starting your own Maker Faire, and then it'll talk about a new program we launched this year for Maker Faire in the schools.
[38:14.040 --> 38:22.880]  So, making it really simple for teachers and students to actually do this in school by providing them with a playbook and things to get going.
[38:22.880 --> 38:25.940]  So, we're all about making makers, and...
[38:25.940 --> 38:30.180]  If there was one of these in Ahmed's school, maybe things would have turned out differently.
[38:31.060 --> 38:32.100]  You know, good point.
[38:32.320 --> 38:32.880]  Good point.
[38:33.080 --> 38:37.980]  So, that's what we're here, and, you know, Dale's out evangelizing and hitting.
[38:38.240 --> 38:43.980]  Dale Doherty, who's our founder, who's out there as well, trying to get people to think differently and, you know, open their minds.
[38:44.000 --> 38:45.100]  And you're absolutely right.
[38:45.200 --> 38:46.740]  Let's get more making back in schools.
[38:47.520 --> 38:47.880]  Okay.
[38:48.500 --> 38:53.460]  Sherry Huss, thank you so much for all that you do, and we look forward to seeing you this weekend.
[38:53.580 --> 38:54.400]  I hope it's a great event.
[38:54.580 --> 38:54.900]  Excellent.
[38:55.320 --> 38:55.520]  All right.
[38:55.640 --> 38:56.360]  Thank you so much, Daniel.
[38:56.500 --> 38:57.260]  Looking forward to seeing you, too.
[38:57.460 --> 38:58.020]  Take care, everyone.
[38:58.360 --> 38:58.820]  Bye-bye.
[38:59.740 --> 39:02.460]  And now, the exciting part of...
[39:02.460 --> 39:07.760]  Not that that wasn't exciting, but the really exciting part of the show where you, the listeners, can win some tickets.
[39:07.900 --> 39:15.980]  Now, we ask that if you live in the area and have an intention of actually coming to Maker Fair that you call in.
[39:16.140 --> 39:21.500]  And if you don't live in the area, refrain from calling because, well, you wouldn't be able to make it.
[39:22.360 --> 39:24.700]  New York City is accessible from anywhere in the world.
[39:24.720 --> 39:25.140]  Well, okay.
[39:25.140 --> 39:29.240]  If you want to book some tickets from wherever you happen to be in the world, and it's worth it.
[39:29.280 --> 39:29.800]  I'll say that.
[39:29.920 --> 39:30.540]  It's definitely worth it.
[39:30.600 --> 39:36.360]  But we have some pairs of tickets to give away, and I assume there'll be people that are in the area.
[39:36.520 --> 39:42.480]  I mean, you needn't even leave Queens, the international airport with the most destinations.
[39:43.000 --> 39:43.460]  You're right.
[39:43.460 --> 39:45.080]  Yeah, LaGuardia and Kennedy.
[39:45.260 --> 39:45.980]  What if you're in Syria?
[39:47.480 --> 39:48.500]  I don't know.
[39:48.660 --> 39:51.140]  You might have other travel options at the moment.
[39:52.160 --> 39:55.060]  But anyway, the phone number that...
[39:55.060 --> 39:56.140]  Here's what we're going to do.
[39:56.340 --> 39:59.000]  We're going to take a phone call on the air.
[39:59.120 --> 39:59.460]  Yes, that's right.
[39:59.500 --> 40:01.480]  You have to speak on the air for a few minutes.
[40:01.560 --> 40:04.940]  Yes, it's not something that is that easy.
[40:05.780 --> 40:08.480]  You have to say something somewhat interesting.
[40:08.960 --> 40:12.720]  And then I'll hand the telephone, because we have a portable phone here.
[40:12.720 --> 40:13.720]  This is how we're taking phone calls.
[40:13.980 --> 40:15.200]  I'm going to hand it to Rob.
[40:15.520 --> 40:15.800]  Yes.
[40:15.960 --> 40:17.760]  Rob will take you into a different room.
[40:18.300 --> 40:22.380]  You won't know that, but he'll walk into a different room, and then he will get your email address.
[40:22.500 --> 40:24.980]  So yes, if you don't have an email address, this isn't going to work.
[40:25.640 --> 40:29.400]  So basically, what you're going to do, hopefully, is dial us.
[40:29.440 --> 40:30.560]  I will give you the number out in a moment.
[40:31.700 --> 40:33.940]  And we will talk to you for a moment on the air.
[40:34.480 --> 40:37.860]  Then I will say goodbye, caller, and hand you over to Rob T.
[40:38.000 --> 40:44.640]  Firefly, who will go down the hall, take your email address, then come back with the phone, Rob, and we'll take another phone call that way.
[40:44.760 --> 40:47.180]  I don't know what we're going to fill the time with while you're down the hall.
[40:47.280 --> 40:48.100]  Well, we have lots of stories.
[40:48.240 --> 40:49.020]  We'll think of something, yeah.
[40:49.040 --> 40:53.480]  Is this all just a big social engineering thing by Rob to get his hands on the magic phone?
[40:53.560 --> 40:54.300]  Maybe it is.
[40:54.480 --> 40:54.780]  Do you have a pen?
[40:54.780 --> 40:55.620]  You know I've been wanting to.
[40:55.760 --> 40:55.960]  Do you have a pen?
[40:55.960 --> 40:57.400]  There is a pen there, if you could pass it to me.
[40:57.400 --> 40:57.860]  You need a piece of paper.
[40:57.860 --> 40:59.160]  There's a pen right there by the clock.
[40:59.320 --> 40:59.860]  Okay, I don't...
[40:59.860 --> 41:00.520]  This has not been tested.
[41:00.720 --> 41:01.380]  I don't know if it writes.
[41:02.360 --> 41:02.820]  All right.
[41:03.160 --> 41:13.120]  Now, we have set up, since we don't have phone lines at the station, incoming phone lines still, we set up our own voice number that will transfer to a cell phone.
[41:14.020 --> 41:17.080]  And Kyle has figured out how to rig it into the board here.
[41:17.280 --> 41:18.920]  Yes, the magical wiring is back.
[41:19.060 --> 41:21.300]  What channel do I bring it up on?
[41:22.680 --> 41:23.300]  This one.
[41:23.300 --> 41:24.040]  This one there?
[41:24.420 --> 41:25.200]  Yeah, that one.
[41:25.360 --> 41:25.980]  This one, okay.
[41:25.980 --> 41:28.100]  And so, how many tickets have we to give away?
[41:28.580 --> 41:30.460]  Well, we're going to do it one by one.
[41:30.560 --> 41:31.040]  I'll tell...
[41:31.040 --> 41:32.040]  You don't need to know that now.
[41:32.160 --> 41:37.360]  You just need to know that everybody who calls in will get two tickets on the day of their choice.
[41:37.760 --> 41:41.380]  And what we're going to do is email them a special link later on tonight.
[41:42.220 --> 41:44.140]  And make sure you get the email address.
[41:44.940 --> 41:49.700]  You know, if there are letters that are hard to understand, please spell them out succinctly so that there's no confusion.
[41:49.720 --> 41:51.200]  And we'll email you later with a link.
[41:51.360 --> 41:52.660]  And that's how you'll get your tickets.
[41:53.080 --> 41:53.940]  So, that's a requirement.
[41:53.940 --> 41:58.620]  You have to have physical access to the fare and you have to have an email address we can contact you through.
[41:58.740 --> 42:00.380]  And some way of printing tickets out, I guess, too.
[42:00.380 --> 42:01.240]  And you have to have fun.
[42:01.660 --> 42:02.620]  Yeah, you have to have fun.
[42:02.900 --> 42:03.060]  All right.
[42:03.220 --> 42:03.720]  Phone number.
[42:04.260 --> 42:05.660]  Area code 331.
[42:05.840 --> 42:06.680]  I don't know where that is.
[42:08.680 --> 42:09.320]  223-WBAI.
[42:09.540 --> 42:09.860]  Yes.
[42:10.080 --> 42:11.640]  331-223-WBAI.
[42:11.840 --> 42:14.340]  That's 9224 for those who don't have letters on their phones.
[42:14.340 --> 42:23.420]  And, yes, you might know that that's the number we've been using in the past because, well, that's just the nature of how things work around here.
[42:24.100 --> 42:25.860]  We have a phone call coming in.
[42:25.960 --> 42:27.500]  And, you know, I can see what area code they're coming from.
[42:27.560 --> 42:28.160]  So, it's 718.
[42:28.280 --> 42:29.340]  That's the right area code.
[42:29.440 --> 42:31.580]  So, but anyone can call in, obviously.
[42:32.480 --> 42:32.940]  All right.
[42:32.960 --> 42:33.860]  Let's take this first call.
[42:34.000 --> 42:34.740]  And good evening.
[42:34.820 --> 42:36.320]  You are on Off the Hook.
[42:37.220 --> 42:37.580]  Manuel.
[42:38.280 --> 42:38.960]  How you doing?
[42:39.860 --> 42:40.440]  Not too bad.
[42:40.600 --> 42:40.760]  You talking?
[42:41.280 --> 42:42.960]  Well, we can barely hear you.
[42:43.220 --> 42:45.720]  Kyle, maybe you can know what buttons to...
[42:45.720 --> 42:46.820]  Is this any better?
[42:47.640 --> 42:49.540]  You keep talking and we'll figure this out.
[42:49.660 --> 42:50.340]  It's on our end.
[42:51.060 --> 42:51.380]  Okay.
[42:52.180 --> 42:54.720]  Whatever worked last week doesn't work this week.
[42:54.980 --> 42:56.220]  I'm only hearing him in one ear.
[42:56.640 --> 42:56.900]  Yeah.
[42:57.500 --> 42:58.520]  You only hearing him in one ear, too?
[42:58.600 --> 43:00.760]  Usually, I hear him in both ears, but...
[43:01.640 --> 43:02.540]  You're hearing him mono.
[43:02.780 --> 43:03.120]  Yeah.
[43:03.280 --> 43:04.060]  Well, that's not really mono.
[43:04.180 --> 43:04.700]  It's just the right channel.
[43:04.780 --> 43:05.900]  Anyway, we'll have to make do.
[43:06.040 --> 43:07.720]  That's how we have it rigged up here at the station.
[43:08.620 --> 43:08.980]  Yes.
[43:09.220 --> 43:10.080]  What's on your mind?
[43:10.080 --> 43:11.340]  Besides wanting the tickets?
[43:13.260 --> 43:14.260]  Oh, well...
[43:14.260 --> 43:15.580]  What's on my mind?
[43:18.100 --> 43:19.940]  A hundred different things.
[43:20.920 --> 43:24.980]  But I've been wanting to attend Maker Faire for the past few years now.
[43:25.060 --> 43:30.040]  And every time it comes around, you know, something comes up to sabotage my plans.
[43:31.360 --> 43:40.640]  Okay, well, this is your lucky day because you have won a pair of tickets to the day of your choice, either Saturday or Sunday.
[43:42.440 --> 43:47.640]  And what I'm going to do now is unplug the phone, hand it to Rob, and he's going to take...
[43:47.640 --> 43:49.940]  Yeah, he's going to take your email address.
[43:50.100 --> 43:53.280]  So stay on the line and enjoy yourself at Maker Faire.
[43:53.780 --> 43:54.940]  Thanks so much, Emmanuel.
[43:55.280 --> 43:55.600]  All right.
[43:56.000 --> 44:00.020]  Now, while I unplug the phone and turn down the volume, you guys banter over there.
[44:00.160 --> 44:05.460]  I mean, if Rob takes this guy's email address, is he going to give it back afterwards?
[44:05.520 --> 44:07.220]  Or how does that work exactly?
[44:07.220 --> 44:08.560]  I think he's going to recycle it.
[44:08.680 --> 44:10.320]  This is the kind of banter you get.
[44:10.320 --> 44:11.280]  Banter you can come up with?
[44:11.580 --> 44:12.960]  You have to recycle it.
[44:13.160 --> 44:14.400]  So the phone is gone right now.
[44:14.440 --> 44:15.660]  We have no way of taking phone calls.
[44:15.660 --> 44:18.440]  And don't bother calling in that number because we deactivated it.
[44:18.540 --> 44:19.260]  We can do that.
[44:19.580 --> 44:20.020]  So, yeah.
[44:20.360 --> 44:21.840]  Email addresses you can recycle.
[44:21.980 --> 44:22.700]  They are recyclable.
[44:22.880 --> 44:24.560]  Also, pixels are recyclable.
[44:24.780 --> 44:25.380]  Well, of course.
[44:25.600 --> 44:25.880]  All right.
[44:26.040 --> 44:27.060]  That's good to know as well.
[44:27.480 --> 44:31.280]  I mean, there's all kinds of news, but I don't want to get into a thing and then take a call.
[44:31.480 --> 44:32.240]  You get one item.
[44:32.340 --> 44:33.140]  That won't be too controversial.
[44:33.520 --> 44:35.300]  I don't have anything non-controversial.
[44:35.540 --> 44:37.240]  Then the least controversial of them all before.
[44:37.240 --> 44:38.700]  I have the story that you handed earlier.
[44:39.180 --> 44:43.540]  Where the government is arguing that if your mobile phone providers know where you are, so should the government.
[44:43.620 --> 44:44.660]  Didn't you read that story already?
[44:44.660 --> 44:46.020]  No, we talked about the birthday.
[44:46.360 --> 44:46.720]  But...
[44:46.720 --> 44:46.880]  Oh.
[44:47.440 --> 44:47.980]  That's right.
[44:48.080 --> 44:48.840]  Rob hijacked.
[44:48.840 --> 44:49.180]  Yeah.
[44:49.220 --> 44:51.900]  Well, I'm re-hijacking back to this story.
[44:51.980 --> 44:52.200]  Fine, fine.
[44:52.220 --> 44:53.080]  I like how this story...
[44:53.080 --> 44:53.720]  I mean, it's insane.
[44:53.900 --> 44:55.420]  This story just crept up, though.
[44:55.520 --> 44:56.020]  Well, it's just...
[44:56.020 --> 44:57.100]  I like the headline of the story.
[44:57.160 --> 44:59.140]  Can you just read the headline the way it reads?
[44:59.440 --> 45:04.700]  Government argues, colon, if your mobile phone provider knows where you are, why shouldn't we?
[45:05.520 --> 45:07.840]  Which, when they say it like that, sort of makes sense.
[45:07.840 --> 45:08.800]  But, uh, no.
[45:08.940 --> 45:10.240]  No, it doesn't make any sense at all.
[45:10.320 --> 45:13.880]  I mean, I would prefer my mobile phone provider to stop stalking me all the time, too.
[45:13.980 --> 45:14.360]  But it...
[45:14.360 --> 45:16.600]  But I certainly didn't consent for the government, too.
[45:16.760 --> 45:17.120]  Exactly.
[45:17.340 --> 45:18.160]  And they're private.
[45:18.460 --> 45:19.500]  They're a private company.
[45:20.180 --> 45:20.580]  Um...
[45:20.580 --> 45:21.000]  It would...
[45:21.000 --> 45:25.440]  It might make sense if perhaps it was, like, a state mobile telephone provider.
[45:25.700 --> 45:27.820]  But this really doesn't make any sense.
[45:27.920 --> 45:28.620]  This, like...
[45:29.860 --> 45:31.860]  Conflating a heck of a lot of stuff there.
[45:32.140 --> 45:33.060]  It's absurd.
[45:33.280 --> 45:34.860]  How long was that email address, Rob?
[45:34.940 --> 45:36.360]  That took an awfully long time.
[45:36.360 --> 45:37.420]  It was very long.
[45:37.540 --> 45:38.860]  A long name, long email address.
[45:38.980 --> 45:39.140]  Okay.
[45:39.260 --> 45:40.020]  Well, I'm glad we got it.
[45:40.040 --> 45:41.080]  Very, very nice listener.
[45:41.360 --> 45:42.200]  We also want to...
[45:42.200 --> 45:44.060]  We want to get the email address correct.
[45:44.300 --> 45:44.400]  Yes.
[45:44.400 --> 45:48.620]  I mean, it would be a shame to send it to someone who has a similar email address.
[45:48.820 --> 45:48.940]  Agreed.
[45:48.940 --> 45:49.140]  Agreed.
[45:49.200 --> 45:49.320]  Yeah.
[45:49.320 --> 45:52.000]  So I had to go down that long corridor to get to the other room.
[45:52.080 --> 45:52.400]  And, yeah.
[45:53.260 --> 45:55.360]  Why are you playing Flappy Bird, Kyle, on the phone?
[45:55.500 --> 45:56.540]  I don't know how to use it.
[45:56.600 --> 45:57.480]  The Flappy Bird wins.
[45:57.740 --> 45:59.020]  How do we give tickets to the bird?
[45:59.120 --> 46:01.920]  No, this phone, if you look at it the wrong way, it'll open an app that...
[46:02.720 --> 46:03.900]  Yeah, just be careful with that.
[46:04.300 --> 46:05.580]  I think we're ready for the next call.
[46:05.740 --> 46:06.700]  We have opened up the phone lines again.
[46:07.500 --> 46:09.260]  331-223-WBAI.
[46:09.360 --> 46:12.920]  Would you like a pair of tickets to Maker Faire this weekend?
[46:13.160 --> 46:14.060]  Try adjusting this.
[46:14.220 --> 46:15.160]  Why don't you try adjusting that?
[46:15.160 --> 46:15.380]  Well...
[46:15.380 --> 46:16.400]  Since you're holding it in your hand.
[46:16.560 --> 46:17.900]  And we'll see if it works.
[46:17.960 --> 46:19.420]  If we get louder volume on the next call.
[46:19.600 --> 46:20.940]  We really need phone lines, folks.
[46:21.180 --> 46:22.740]  I don't know why I'm telling you that.
[46:23.680 --> 46:26.640]  I'll turn my head towards management to say, we really need phone lines, folks.
[46:27.420 --> 46:28.960]  It's a radio station, you know?
[46:29.400 --> 46:30.780]  Because management probably went home for that.
[46:30.860 --> 46:33.120]  Kyle, you're turning the phone upside down, so I don't know if a call is coming in.
[46:33.320 --> 46:34.340]  No, we don't have a call yet.
[46:34.340 --> 46:34.600]  All right.
[46:34.620 --> 46:35.660]  But we are ready for your call.
[46:35.760 --> 46:36.300]  Please call in.
[46:36.400 --> 46:39.100]  We've got three more sets of Maker Faire tickets.
[46:39.100 --> 46:41.020]  Yeah, we have to go a little faster or we'll run out of time.
[46:41.200 --> 46:41.520]  Now I know.
[46:42.180 --> 46:43.800]  331-223-WBAI.
[46:43.900 --> 46:47.260]  Why don't you put the phone over there, and I'll just press the button when it comes in.
[46:48.900 --> 46:49.180]  Yes.
[46:52.740 --> 46:56.760]  Long Island, that includes New Jersey, it includes Connecticut, and of course the five boroughs.
[46:58.720 --> 46:59.880]  You can make it to Maker Faire.
[47:00.560 --> 47:02.360]  It's not hard.
[47:02.680 --> 47:06.260]  I mean, I think it's up to the caller's judgment if they can make it to Maker Faire.
[47:06.340 --> 47:11.380]  If you're listening to, and you can't make it, but you know somebody who can, well, you can give them the tickets.
[47:11.520 --> 47:12.420]  I mean, like Bernie S.
[47:12.660 --> 47:15.620]  has declined to come up from Philadelphia, but that's his choice.
[47:15.760 --> 47:17.040]  There's regular train service.
[47:17.180 --> 47:17.860]  Yeah, but you see, Bernie S.
[47:17.960 --> 47:23.900]  could call in, win the tickets, and then, except for the fact that he's part of the show, and is disqualified.
[47:24.380 --> 47:26.800]  But he could give it to somebody in the area who...
[47:26.800 --> 47:31.020]  Yeah, and he could be scheming right now to get one of his friends to get tickets.
[47:31.280 --> 47:32.720]  Maybe that was him I was just talking with.
[47:33.080 --> 47:34.900]  331-223-WBAI.
[47:35.360 --> 47:38.420]  I'm hoping that the forwarding is working, because we usually get a ton of calls.
[47:38.780 --> 47:40.660]  331-223-9224.
[47:40.800 --> 47:47.020]  Please call up, win a pair of tickets, say something on the air for a few seconds, and make us all happy.
[47:47.020 --> 47:59.380]  If you're just tuning in, what Maker Faire is, what we've been talking about for the last couple of minutes on the show, is a massive, massive outdoor festival, fair-like environment.
[47:59.720 --> 48:04.720]  And yeah, there's tons and tons of people, very family-friendly.
[48:05.580 --> 48:08.320]  There's all kinds of different exhibitions.
[48:09.900 --> 48:16.800]  There, as Sherry said, there's going to be a couple of performances of sorts, a lot of interactive stuff, a lot of stuff to...
[48:16.800 --> 48:33.780]  If you're a tactile person, if you like to take things apart, or you're just curious about technology, and have ideas for projects, but you maybe want to get pushed a little bit further in one direction or the other, or you want an insight on something you're not as familiar with,
[48:33.980 --> 48:38.000]  that you think would apply to another thing that you're working on, this is the kind of place for you.
[48:38.080 --> 48:39.560]  You really should come out.
[48:40.440 --> 48:41.900]  It's in a beautiful spot.
[48:42.040 --> 48:43.040]  The weather, I think, is good.
[48:43.940 --> 48:45.160]  And I think we've got a call.
[48:46.100 --> 48:46.460]  331...
[48:46.460 --> 48:46.720]  No, we don't.
[48:47.000 --> 48:48.120]  We have me saying the phone number.
[48:48.300 --> 48:56.360]  We have a lot of voicemail, so I think people are calling our voicemail, and I don't know if we're going to listen to their voicemails, but we want to talk to them on the air.
[48:56.480 --> 49:01.220]  So you're saying that this is going directly to voicemail instead of going to the...
[49:01.220 --> 49:01.740]  Oh, boy.
[49:01.800 --> 49:03.400]  I mean, I can tell you all these area codes.
[49:03.800 --> 49:08.000]  We have a signal here, so I don't know why the phone wouldn't be ringing.
[49:08.260 --> 49:10.360]  Some people have left more than one voicemail.
[49:10.480 --> 49:10.740]  Okay.
[49:10.940 --> 49:12.260]  Which is very thoughtful of them.
[49:12.260 --> 49:17.280]  I will turn this off and turn it back on again, and maybe that will make it work.
[49:17.400 --> 49:18.640]  That's what you have to do in this world.
[49:18.660 --> 49:20.660]  You have to turn things off and turn them back on again.
[49:21.020 --> 49:21.620]  All right, try now.
[49:21.820 --> 49:22.120]  Try now.
[49:22.240 --> 49:24.440]  We just clicked it once.
[49:25.740 --> 49:27.220]  331-223-9224.
[49:27.300 --> 49:28.620]  I knew there were phone calls coming in.
[49:28.700 --> 49:29.380]  I knew there had to be.
[49:30.200 --> 49:32.880]  What we're going to have to do, folks, is...
[49:32.880 --> 49:35.320]  We have 38 voicemails, Emmanuel.
[49:35.700 --> 49:36.020]  Okay.
[49:36.080 --> 49:38.120]  Well, that's better than not getting any calls.
[49:38.120 --> 49:39.100]  I was worried about that.
[49:39.100 --> 49:40.040]  Why wasn't the phone ringing?
[49:40.900 --> 49:42.320]  But why isn't the phone ringing?
[49:42.380 --> 49:43.840]  That's really a good question.
[49:44.420 --> 49:45.760]  Is there an app we need running?
[49:46.240 --> 49:49.720]  Why don't you use that phone and call that number, Rob, and see what happens?
[49:49.800 --> 49:51.760]  That way we can speak intelligently about this.
[49:51.960 --> 49:54.380]  331-223-9224.
[49:55.480 --> 49:58.980]  If it goes directly to voicemail, then we have a problem, and I don't know how to fix it.
[50:02.490 --> 50:04.610]  Of course, what you could also do...
[50:04.610 --> 50:06.690]  Oh, we have 38 voicemails.
[50:06.990 --> 50:07.350]  It's...
[50:07.350 --> 50:07.670]  Yeah.
[50:08.230 --> 50:08.950]  It's too many voicemails.
[50:08.950 --> 50:09.930]  We can't weed through all those.
[50:10.150 --> 50:10.530]  I don't know.
[50:10.570 --> 50:12.250]  Don't leave us voicemail, and you'll win.
[50:12.250 --> 50:12.910]  How about that?
[50:16.010 --> 50:17.910]  It's ringing, but it's not ringing.
[50:18.250 --> 50:19.610]  It's ringing, but it's not ringing.
[50:19.850 --> 50:20.990]  Well, it's not ringing here.
[50:21.730 --> 50:22.650]  Something seems to be...
[50:22.650 --> 50:30.670]  It is going to our voicemail, so I'm not going to leave us one, because I don't need these tickets, but can we fix this, or should we give it to the people who leave us voicemails?
[50:30.670 --> 50:30.890]  Well, what would you suggest?
[50:31.310 --> 50:32.390]  You're an engineer.
[50:33.110 --> 50:34.470]  I'm not a voicemail engineer.
[50:34.730 --> 50:36.050]  Well, you use voicemail, and you use telephones.
[50:36.050 --> 50:37.530]  No, no, I do not use voicemail.
[50:37.610 --> 50:37.710]  And you use the internet.
[50:37.950 --> 50:38.990]  All three of these are combining.
[50:39.790 --> 50:41.370]  Okay, what I'm going to do...
[50:41.850 --> 50:42.490]  I'm using...
[50:42.490 --> 50:43.390]  Okay, Google Voice.
[50:43.950 --> 50:46.090]  I want to blame the people who are responsible now.
[50:46.230 --> 50:47.410]  We're using Google Voice.
[50:48.130 --> 50:48.950]  It's not working.
[50:49.170 --> 50:51.390]  It's not making the phone ring for some reason.
[50:51.450 --> 50:52.570]  We're up to 51 voicemails.
[50:52.570 --> 50:54.050]  Okay, stop leaving voicemails, people.
[50:54.950 --> 50:56.990]  Okay, we're going to change... we can't change the number there.
[50:57.610 --> 50:58.770]  We're going to edit the number.
[50:59.590 --> 51:01.350]  I hear a busy signal somewhere.
[51:01.370 --> 51:02.570]  It's an off-the-hook tone.
[51:03.030 --> 51:04.030]  We're off-the-hook, yeah.
[51:04.950 --> 51:06.670]  We don't have time to deal with that right now.
[51:06.770 --> 51:08.170]  We're too busy dealing with this.
[51:08.310 --> 51:09.430]  We're already off the hook.
[51:10.010 --> 51:11.210]  Oh, that's just us?
[51:11.350 --> 51:11.570]  Okay.
[51:11.770 --> 51:15.310]  So I'm basically changing the number over here.
[51:16.910 --> 51:17.310]  Okay.
[51:18.230 --> 51:19.510]  And saving there.
[51:21.890 --> 51:25.090]  Other radio programs would not dare to do this on the air.
[51:25.090 --> 51:25.930]  No, definitely not.
[51:26.650 --> 51:27.410]  And there we go.
[51:27.650 --> 51:28.690]  The phone is ringing.
[51:28.910 --> 51:29.150]  Yes.
[51:29.270 --> 51:30.450]  And for some reason...
[51:30.910 --> 51:35.410]  For some reason, it has gone audio-wise.
[51:35.610 --> 51:39.410]  Well, I think the volume I was trying to do should be in call.
[51:39.610 --> 51:39.930]  Good evening.
[51:39.930 --> 51:40.970]  You're on the air.
[51:41.050 --> 51:41.570]  Can you hear us?
[51:42.790 --> 51:43.230]  Hello?
[51:43.910 --> 51:44.830]  Is anyone there?
[51:47.350 --> 51:47.790]  Okay.
[51:47.930 --> 51:48.810]  I think you have...
[51:48.810 --> 51:50.050]  I did answer.
[51:50.150 --> 51:50.810]  I'll answer it again.
[51:51.270 --> 51:51.650]  Okay.
[51:51.750 --> 51:52.370]  Is anyone there?
[51:53.150 --> 51:53.570]  Yes.
[51:53.710 --> 51:54.510]  Now I can hear you.
[51:54.630 --> 51:55.010]  Oh, good.
[51:55.170 --> 51:55.410]  Okay.
[51:55.710 --> 51:55.970]  Excellent.
[51:57.390 --> 51:59.730]  The first ring goes to voicemail.
[52:00.010 --> 52:03.050]  And my second attempt, it goes to...
[52:03.050 --> 52:04.410]  It rings about 10 times.
[52:05.090 --> 52:05.470]  Yeah.
[52:05.850 --> 52:07.510]  Google Voice was having issues.
[52:08.770 --> 52:10.750]  You're obviously having technical difficulties.
[52:11.150 --> 52:11.330]  Yeah.
[52:11.470 --> 52:14.510]  Well, we fixed it by unclicking a button and then clicking it again.
[52:14.730 --> 52:16.010]  And that did seem to do the trick.
[52:17.230 --> 52:18.370]  Where are you calling from?
[52:19.370 --> 52:21.270]  Uh, Long Island.
[52:21.950 --> 52:22.530]  Okay, great.
[52:22.570 --> 52:24.150]  And you want to go to the Maker Faire this weekend?
[52:25.090 --> 52:25.850]  Yes, absolutely.
[52:26.110 --> 52:26.330]  Okay.
[52:26.470 --> 52:28.710]  I am going to hand the phone over to Rob T.
[52:28.810 --> 52:29.130]  Firefly.
[52:29.270 --> 52:31.270]  He's going to take your information.
[52:32.210 --> 52:32.590]  And...
[52:32.590 --> 52:33.110]  Thank you.
[52:33.250 --> 52:34.930]  And you know what, Rob?
[52:34.930 --> 52:40.930]  Rob, if anyone else calls in, we have a total of three more.
[52:41.110 --> 52:41.270]  Yeah.
[52:41.430 --> 52:42.570]  So this one plus two more.
[52:43.370 --> 52:44.850]  If you're lucky, you'll get in.
[52:45.210 --> 52:47.550]  And I'm sorry for all the technical snaffers.
[52:47.670 --> 52:51.350]  Just make sure you get their email addresses and we'll see you next week.
[52:52.310 --> 52:52.750]  Rob T.
[52:52.850 --> 52:53.310]  Firefly there.
[52:53.750 --> 52:53.870]  Wow.
[52:54.210 --> 52:55.610]  You know, this was supposed to be easy.
[52:55.730 --> 52:55.990]  I don't know.
[52:56.130 --> 52:56.870]  Stop leaving us voicemails.
[52:57.090 --> 52:58.590]  Yeah, you can stop leaving voicemails now.
[52:58.750 --> 53:00.550]  I kind of want to go through and listen to them.
[53:00.590 --> 53:02.890]  Well, you'll have plenty to choose from.
[53:03.450 --> 53:05.270]  We've got 62 now.
[53:05.270 --> 53:07.330]  One person sent us an SMS.
[53:07.710 --> 53:13.430]  Okay, I want to know what goes to the minds of people when we say don't leave us voicemails, so continue to leave us voicemails and send texts.
[53:13.770 --> 53:13.950]  Yeah.
[53:14.310 --> 53:14.530]  Wow.
[53:15.070 --> 53:19.990]  Yeah, that's because there's a box here that says receive text messages on this phone that was checked, even though I had unchecked it earlier.
[53:20.110 --> 53:24.850]  Hey, that is something we never had the capability of with previous phone systems and radio stations.
[53:25.050 --> 53:25.790]  So, I mean, come on.
[53:25.890 --> 53:26.310]  I guess, yeah.
[53:26.390 --> 53:29.490]  Now we can be distracted by SMS during the radio show.
[53:29.530 --> 53:31.910]  We can read your SMS comments over the air.
[53:32.150 --> 53:33.570]  How fancy is that?
[53:33.730 --> 53:34.810]  That's improvement.
[53:34.810 --> 53:38.130]  We're making progress, and I'm excited.
[53:38.370 --> 53:39.670]  It's good to know people are listening.
[53:39.930 --> 53:40.650]  Yes, yes.
[53:41.730 --> 53:49.530]  A couple of interesting articles in The Intercept this week, including one by our fellow off-the-hook person, Alex, who's now in London.
[53:49.670 --> 53:50.190]  That's right.
[53:50.290 --> 53:55.290]  I don't have that story with me, unfortunately, but if you go to theintercept.com, you'll find it.
[53:55.350 --> 53:57.270]  It was sort of a history of government surveillance.
[53:57.270 --> 53:57.910]  It was interesting.
[53:58.130 --> 53:59.490]  Yeah, and a great picture on the front, too.
[53:59.710 --> 54:07.730]  This story that I had clipped before that came out is all about the TSA, headline reading TSA doesn't care that its luggage locks have been hacked.
[54:08.410 --> 54:22.090]  And a spectacular failure of a backdoor designed to give law enforcement exclusive access to private places, hackers have made the master keys for Transportation Security Administration recognized luggage locks available to anyone with a 3D printer.
[54:22.660 --> 54:23.310]  Isn't that amazing?
[54:23.750 --> 54:26.290]  You know, I own one of these locks.
[54:26.590 --> 54:26.890]  Yes.
[54:27.030 --> 54:31.110]  And I'm going to get a picture of it for those of you in the studio.
[54:31.290 --> 54:34.170]  I apologize that our on-air audience can't see it.
[54:34.230 --> 54:34.830]  Does this lock...
[54:34.830 --> 54:35.690]  I can't see it either.
[54:35.690 --> 54:36.730]  You're behind a monitor.
[54:36.850 --> 54:37.630]  Here's the lock.
[54:37.710 --> 54:37.890]  Okay.
[54:37.930 --> 54:41.550]  Do you think this can protect anything even before the TSA keys got locked?
[54:41.550 --> 54:42.250]  No, I could step on that.
[54:42.330 --> 54:42.790]  Yeah, exactly.
[54:43.070 --> 54:52.110]  So these locks are cheap locks that provide minimal security so that if you have a lock and the person next to you doesn't have a lock, maybe they'll open their bag instead.
[54:52.290 --> 54:57.210]  But these locks are not designed to provide, you know, real security against a dedicated attacker.
[54:58.230 --> 55:03.170]  There's a lot easier ways to open them than to download the thing in 3D print and this, that, and the other.
[55:03.350 --> 55:04.110]  Okay, but how did...
[55:04.110 --> 55:05.250]  So I am not concerned either.
[55:05.250 --> 55:08.050]  You're not concerned, but how were they replicated?
[55:08.250 --> 55:10.190]  How were the keys, the master keys to all of these?
[55:10.270 --> 55:12.110]  How were they duplicated so easily?
[55:12.190 --> 55:19.510]  Apparently there were some photographs in the Washington Post and some higher quality photos elsewhere in training materials or something.
[55:20.370 --> 55:27.370]  I mean, it's technically interesting, but no one's opening high security locks today that they couldn't open before.
[55:27.650 --> 55:31.570]  So that means that basically if you take a picture of a key, you can duplicate that key.
[55:31.730 --> 55:32.910]  Depending on the key, yes.
[55:33.250 --> 55:36.430]  Yes, this has been proven at several different events.
[55:36.430 --> 55:42.470]  All the way back, I think in 2009, they did something similar at HAR and at various events.
[55:42.470 --> 55:46.330]  I mean, they did it with handcuffed keys there, but I guess they're pretty generic.
[55:46.550 --> 55:48.390]  But there have been other examples of this.
[55:48.490 --> 55:50.970]  I think the Tool people could probably speak to it better than we could.
[55:51.050 --> 55:53.950]  And Tool actually, by the way, is going to be at Maker Faire.
[55:54.070 --> 55:56.550]  At least they have in that previous one, so I assume they'll be at this one as well.
[55:56.650 --> 55:59.230]  What I think is really important about this story is the metaphor.
[55:59.390 --> 56:01.430]  What it really says.
[56:02.090 --> 56:05.150]  Because it's, in particular, yeah, it's a security mechanism.
[56:05.310 --> 56:07.810]  They put a back door in and then it failed.
[56:08.610 --> 56:19.530]  And I think there's a lot of parallels with some of the clamoring, some of the insistence, especially in kind of the post-Snowden era, to rationalize it, to say it's okay.
[56:19.970 --> 56:31.350]  Case in point is this other, this article, government argues your mobile should give us location, your provider should give us location because we're the government.
[56:31.470 --> 56:31.770]  I don't know.
[56:32.450 --> 56:43.370]  So, it kind of proves the point that putting engineering back doors into things is a convenience, yeah, but it's not related to security at all.
[56:43.470 --> 56:44.670]  It doesn't make things secure.
[56:44.750 --> 56:51.670]  Well, I'm just going to look for pictures of janitors with key rings to important buildings, like, you know, cleaning up at the NSA or something like that.
[56:51.770 --> 56:55.010]  And, you know, it might be a handy thing to have.
[56:55.850 --> 56:56.910]  I know we're almost out of time.
[56:56.910 --> 57:01.570]  I just want to agree with Kyle and say this has particular relevance for the people who want a backdoor encryption.
[57:02.010 --> 57:05.350]  We've been making locks for a lot longer than we've been making encryption.
[57:05.670 --> 57:08.570]  I don't think we can make encryption with a good backdoor.
[57:08.950 --> 57:11.310]  We certainly can't make locks with a good backdoor.
[57:11.690 --> 57:12.250]  Watch out.
[57:12.830 --> 57:15.850]  Okay, and that's going to pretty much bring us to the end of another edition of Off the Hook.
[57:15.890 --> 57:19.630]  Hey, I've got a riddle for listeners out there.
[57:19.710 --> 57:23.610]  I was watching the Pope earlier in Washington, D.C.
[57:23.770 --> 57:25.210]  He was being driven.
[57:25.810 --> 57:27.470]  And, wow, that sounds terrible, doesn't it?
[57:27.830 --> 57:30.870]  I'm sorry, this RCD player is all scratching out, too.
[57:30.870 --> 57:33.730]  But I was hearing this music as the Popemobile was going by.
[57:33.930 --> 57:37.630]  Why was I hearing Pink Floyd's Adam Hart mother while the Pope was driving by?
[57:37.710 --> 57:38.970]  Maybe somebody could answer that question.
[57:39.210 --> 57:41.090]  L-T-H at 2600.com.
[57:41.230 --> 57:42.750]  Without all the scratching.
[57:43.150 --> 57:43.810]  See you next week.
[57:43.890 --> 57:44.030]  Good night.
[58:25.240 --> 58:25.640]  Good night.
[58:26.020 --> 58:26.480]  Good night.
[58:26.580 --> 58:26.680]  Good night.
[58:26.880 --> 58:26.980]  Good night.
[58:27.200 --> 58:27.460]  Good night.
[58:27.720 --> 58:28.040]  Good night.
[58:28.280 --> 58:28.340]  Good night.
[58:28.500 --> 58:28.660]  Good night.