[00:00.000 --> 00:05.300]  The meeting will be held at the 60 Wall Street Atrium in Lower Manhattan.
[00:05.940 --> 00:17.280]  Again, the WBAI Community Advisory Board will be holding an open meeting for all to attend on Sunday, June 12th at 1 p.m.
[00:17.840 --> 00:23.380]  The meeting will be held at the 60 Wall Street Atrium in Lower Manhattan.
[00:24.020 --> 00:26.380]  Two or three train to Wall Street.
[00:26.720 --> 00:28.560]  All are welcome to attend.
[00:36.640 --> 00:43.460]  And you are listening to WBAI New York, where the time is 7 o'clock.
[00:43.720 --> 00:46.640]  Time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[01:13.320 --> 01:14.540]  Oh, that's understood.
[01:14.740 --> 01:15.560]  Monday, let's go.
[02:40.000 --> 02:41.200]  And a very good evening to everybody.
[02:41.320 --> 02:42.180]  The program is Off the Hook.
[02:42.260 --> 02:46.140]  Emmanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Rob T.
[02:46.420 --> 02:46.780]  Firefly.
[02:47.060 --> 02:47.460]  Good evening.
[02:47.760 --> 02:48.260]  Hang on.
[02:48.380 --> 02:49.600]  Why don't I hear you?
[02:50.660 --> 02:51.380]  Why don't I hear you?
[02:51.380 --> 02:51.720]  There we go.
[02:51.960 --> 02:52.040]  Okay.
[02:52.120 --> 02:52.720]  Ah, there we go.
[02:52.720 --> 02:54.520]  You've got to turn those little knobs for some reason.
[02:54.660 --> 02:56.060]  I don't know why they're not turned all the time.
[02:56.620 --> 02:56.980]  Kyle.
[02:58.660 --> 03:00.300]  You need the microphone in front of you.
[03:00.360 --> 03:01.320]  Go away.
[03:01.320 --> 03:03.020]  Yeah, Kyle's in a great mood today.
[03:04.140 --> 03:05.480]  And Bernie S.
[03:06.080 --> 03:07.200]  Greetings from Philadelphia.
[03:08.040 --> 03:08.440]  Yes.
[03:08.640 --> 03:12.660]  Well, we haven't been on for a couple of weeks.
[03:12.920 --> 03:14.440]  We haven't been on for a couple of weeks.
[03:15.260 --> 03:18.140]  And I guess some things have been going on.
[03:18.200 --> 03:21.900]  I've got a pile of notes here, but as usual, everything happens at the last minute.
[03:22.020 --> 03:23.980]  And I'm kind of flustered as far as getting them all together.
[03:24.880 --> 03:30.340]  So I'd like for the people to step in for a moment and update us as to what's going on.
[03:30.360 --> 03:31.300]  Maybe hope-related things.
[03:31.360 --> 03:32.020]  That would be kind of nice.
[03:34.280 --> 03:36.320]  Well, I can provide an update on that.
[03:37.880 --> 03:39.920]  Oh, I was granting you permission from the start.
[03:40.020 --> 03:40.300]  Oh, okay.
[03:40.300 --> 03:40.700]  Here I am again.
[03:40.860 --> 03:40.920]  Okay.
[03:41.220 --> 03:43.040]  I didn't want us to all, like, talk at once.
[03:43.900 --> 03:47.040]  Yeah, we've gotten through hundreds and hundreds of submissions.
[03:47.820 --> 03:58.820]  And there's still a few more straggling in, but this is an amazing body of talent that we're seeing of just really fascinating talks.
[03:59.340 --> 04:17.120]  The folks who don't know, listening to the show that Hope is Hackers on Planet Earth, it's a biannual, that is, every two-year conference that happens in New York City at the Hotel Pennsylvania, where for three days, this year, July 22nd, 23rd, 24th, is three days,
[04:17.580 --> 04:39.280]  non-stop, amazingness, talks, workshops, projects, exhibits, vendors, and just camaraderie with folks you would call maybe birds of a feather, who are just passionately curious about topics that we talk about on the show and related things.
[04:39.660 --> 04:45.220]  And you get to really learn a lot and share energy and collaborate with folks.
[04:45.320 --> 04:46.820]  And it's really indescribable.
[04:47.060 --> 04:47.600]  You've got experience.
[04:47.840 --> 04:53.120]  Bernie, maybe you could leak some information, some names, perhaps, some speakers.
[04:53.760 --> 04:55.100]  Are we allowed to?
[04:55.740 --> 05:01.820]  I mean, I know it's all confidential, the speaker stuff, but I don't know if you've posted anything yet.
[05:01.980 --> 05:02.820]  But let's see.
[05:05.220 --> 05:18.520]  There's a gentleman named John Atkinson, who is one of the country's foremost experts in technical security countermeasures, TSTM.
[05:19.040 --> 05:26.560]  Basically, that's the art of finding electronic surveillance, physical electronic surveillance in a place.
[05:27.880 --> 05:30.400]  And this guy is one of the masters of the craft.
[05:30.560 --> 05:33.780]  There's only really a small number of people in the country that really know this.
[05:33.900 --> 05:41.400]  We had a few years ago at Hope, we were very lucky to have Marty Kaiser, one of the old school TSTM experts.
[05:42.020 --> 05:46.600]  Marty's retired now, but he was very well received a few years ago at Hope.
[05:46.800 --> 06:02.760]  But this year, we'll have John Atkinson, who's going to fill you in on the art of, I don't have his abstract in front of me, but the art and science of electronic surveillance, as in electronic bugs, and what he does to find them.
[06:02.760 --> 06:07.980]  And this man has hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of electronic equipment, but this isn't just stuff you buy off the shelf.
[06:08.180 --> 06:12.820]  You have to customize it, you have to program it, you have to know how to use it, you have to devise custom solutions.
[06:13.260 --> 06:25.500]  And this man has been doing this for decades, and he's going to explain to you what he does and give you some examples of what you can do to protect your own security as far as looking for electronic surveillance if you're really paranoid.
[06:26.180 --> 06:31.360]  And to quote Dr. Donner's Johnny Fever, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean everybody's not out to get you.
[06:31.880 --> 06:33.480]  Was he really the first one to say that?
[06:33.660 --> 06:35.240]  I don't know, but I like that quote.
[06:36.520 --> 06:36.880]  Absolutely.
[06:37.000 --> 06:38.740]  Okay, we're trying to get a Windows machine to work here.
[06:38.780 --> 06:42.120]  That's why we are so scatterbrained right now.
[06:43.400 --> 06:50.680]  But anyone else you want to give some notice of, or any other announcements concerning Hope?
[06:52.920 --> 07:11.480]  Our friend John Young and his wife Deborah Natsios, I hope I'm not mispronouncing her name, but we spoke a few years ago to Hope about the Ring of Steel in New York, which is a plant kind of like modeled after the Ring of Steel around London, you know,
[07:11.740 --> 07:12.620]  domestic security.
[07:13.220 --> 07:19.700]  They'll be giving what I think is going to be a fascinating presentation about the LinkNYC system.
[07:19.960 --> 07:27.500]  This is, you know, all the Verizon payphones that have been retired, but Verizon is not giving up the real estate that has payphones for the advertising medium.
[07:27.500 --> 07:37.220]  They're partnering with New York City to establish, I believe, 15,000 network hubs.
[07:37.500 --> 07:41.280]  500 by July, by the time Hope rolls around.
[07:41.660 --> 07:41.880]  Wow.
[07:41.880 --> 07:42.860]  There will be 500 in South.
[07:42.880 --> 07:46.600]  So there's already going to be hundreds by the time Hope happens on July 22nd, 23rd, and 24th.
[07:46.600 --> 08:15.360]  And these will be public, like payphone stations, except you'll be able to make, apparently, free calls, charge your laptop or cell phone, and check email, and, you know, without a computer, and the Wi-Fi and Bluetooth and a camera, and apparently this makes a perfect government spying platform.
[08:15.880 --> 08:31.540]  So John is going, John and his wife, Deborah, or partner, Deborah, are going to be presenting what they have learned about the LinkNYC system and what we need to be aware of it, because he has some, what I've seen on Cryptome, C-R-Y-P-T-O-M-E, Cryptome.org.
[08:32.660 --> 08:35.580]  John is an architect by trade, but is an amazing archivist.
[08:36.900 --> 08:49.860]  I think our friend Matt Blaze characterized John Young as what would be like if it was Julian Assange's older but less creepy brother.
[08:52.700 --> 08:53.220]  Anyway.
[08:53.440 --> 08:55.780]  John actually joined us on this program some time ago.
[08:56.640 --> 08:57.160]  Anyway.
[08:58.520 --> 09:07.160]  John's an amazing archivist, and has collected an amazing amount of material about the LinkNYC system, put it up on Cryptome, but he wants to present it in person at the 11th Hope.
[09:08.320 --> 09:08.760]  Okay.
[09:08.900 --> 09:11.780]  That sounds pretty fabulous and amazing.
[09:12.440 --> 09:20.280]  A lot of things happening in preparation for the conference, which will be happening in, what do we figure, just under 50 days, Kyle?
[09:20.900 --> 09:23.760]  Yeah, a little over, a little under 50 days until then.
[09:24.160 --> 09:24.400]  Wow.
[09:24.400 --> 09:28.080]  I know that because the pundits keep talking about that in the context of the conventions.
[09:28.080 --> 09:28.660]  That's right.
[09:28.660 --> 09:35.820]  We have the Republican convention taking place right before it and the Democratic convention taking place right after Hope.
[09:36.080 --> 09:39.120]  So, yeah, that's something else.
[09:39.280 --> 09:40.020]  It's going to be amazing.
[09:40.460 --> 09:49.340]  Yeah, I've already heard from a friend of mine that the fact that because this friend is a journalist and has to cover both conventions, the fact that Hope is right between them will be what keeps this person sane.
[09:51.140 --> 09:51.580]  Wow.
[09:51.820 --> 10:04.240]  Well, politics are certainly going to be definitely in the air during Hope, and we'll certainly know a lot more about how that whole thing is looking around the time of the 11th Hope.
[10:04.440 --> 10:08.800]  But suffice to say, we have a myriad of other things going on at that event.
[10:09.280 --> 10:14.220]  The talks will be political, technical, and social in...
[10:15.900 --> 10:16.520]  Yeah, cultural.
[10:17.380 --> 10:17.860]  Sociocultural.
[10:18.080 --> 10:20.160]  That's a great way to phrase it, Bernie.
[10:21.080 --> 10:23.640]  And on top of that, we have all of this space.
[10:23.640 --> 10:25.440]  We do a lot of really fun things.
[10:25.440 --> 10:41.100]  We'll have lock pickers and vintage computers, a whole area for local vendors and organizations, and we'll have Club Mate, some refreshments, and segues, too.
[10:41.240 --> 10:42.420]  We're going to have segues again.
[10:42.560 --> 10:47.960]  Segues and all sorts of things that you've come to know and love Hope for, and more.
[10:47.960 --> 10:49.560]  There's all kinds of surprises.
[10:49.920 --> 10:53.000]  We're being surprised daily by the things that are coming in, including this.
[10:53.140 --> 10:53.960]  This is actually...
[10:53.960 --> 10:55.060]  I want to announce this.
[10:55.280 --> 11:00.120]  We were trying to get connectivity, and we finally succeeded in getting it, so I can actually read the press release.
[11:00.460 --> 11:05.300]  But we're announcing a contest, a contest that we've never had before.
[11:06.120 --> 11:15.160]  And since we have Corey Doctorow speaking as our keynote, we thought this would be fun to have young journalists get involved.
[11:15.740 --> 11:21.580]  We're announcing a contest intended to inspire students, potential journalists, to learn more about the world of hacking.
[11:21.800 --> 11:37.360]  So for this entire month, this month being June 2016, we're challenging students who are interested in technology and journalism to write an article about the Hope Conference, publish it online someplace, and just cover whatever it is that you feel the Hope Conference means to you,
[11:37.380 --> 11:45.120]  whether it's a particular form of technology, a specific talk maybe from a conference that inspired you, various other things.
[11:46.000 --> 11:53.100]  What you do is write an article about the Hope Conference in some form, send us a link to where it's been published, even if it's your own webpage.
[11:54.240 --> 12:01.800]  And if you're in a school or if you're a college major, say you're going for journalism or something like that, let us know that as well.
[12:02.160 --> 12:08.400]  Maybe you can publish it in a student newspaper if one is publishing at this time of year, or at least submit it.
[12:09.800 --> 12:11.000]  You'll get bonus points for that.
[12:11.000 --> 12:15.660]  Anyway, we will post the top five articles on the Hope Conference website.
[12:16.040 --> 12:25.740]  And the person who wins, the person who has the best article, will get a free admission to the conference as well as a one-on-one interview with our keynote speaker, Cory Doctorow.
[12:25.880 --> 12:35.800]  So if you're in sixth grade or something and you feel you're pretty good at journalism, this is your opportunity to maybe meet Cory Doctorow and ask him a few key questions.
[12:35.800 --> 12:37.280]  And the same goes if you're 23.
[12:38.700 --> 12:43.460]  So if you want more information on that, just visit xi.hope.net, xi being 11.
[12:44.400 --> 12:48.700]  And more information on the contest will be posted there very shortly.
[12:48.700 --> 12:54.040]  But this is pretty much the first that we've announced it and I figured we should do that tonight.
[12:54.280 --> 13:01.460]  So the email address to email your entries to is contest at hope.net.
[13:01.560 --> 13:03.020]  You know, I probably didn't have to say that.
[13:03.280 --> 13:04.780]  That should have been part of the contest.
[13:05.000 --> 13:09.280]  People should have had to figure out where to email their contest entries.
[13:10.000 --> 13:12.460]  But contest at hope.net, that's what you do.
[13:13.400 --> 13:14.240]  That's too hard.
[13:14.360 --> 13:15.580]  That's too much of a puzzle.
[13:15.720 --> 13:16.880]  Do I have to spell contest for you?
[13:17.020 --> 13:17.820]  Is that what you want me to do?
[13:17.840 --> 13:19.580]  They've got their work cut out for them with the article.
[13:19.740 --> 13:21.820]  Why make them jump through those hoops too?
[13:21.980 --> 13:23.160]  Let's just be clear.
[13:24.300 --> 13:28.700]  And oh, we're also still accepting any kind of limited sponsorship for Hope.
[13:28.780 --> 13:30.600]  We have a couple of expenses this time around.
[13:30.700 --> 13:31.140]  That's true.
[13:31.860 --> 13:32.660]  Unanticipated expenses.
[13:32.660 --> 13:34.940]  They always come at us like werewolves.
[13:34.940 --> 13:46.340]  And if you are part of some kind of technology firm or any firm or you're just a very generous person and you'd like to help in some way by sponsoring a particular...
[13:46.340 --> 13:48.680]  We had people sponsor Segways last time.
[13:48.740 --> 13:50.320]  We had people sponsor the network last time.
[13:50.840 --> 13:53.660]  We have amazing things coming.
[13:53.940 --> 13:54.980]  We're getting them regardless.
[13:55.080 --> 13:58.040]  The question is how much in debt do we get once we get them?
[13:58.540 --> 13:59.980]  So that's where you can help.
[13:59.980 --> 14:01.480]  Well, it is certainly...
[14:01.480 --> 14:15.740]  It is really, really important for us to be able to take any kind of contribution to lower some of the costs because it gets pretty wildly astronomical as far as the numbers that we start looking at for an event that has grown to this size.
[14:16.180 --> 14:17.260]  It's really crucial.
[14:17.600 --> 14:18.680]  And it worked a little bit.
[14:18.760 --> 14:20.220]  And I will emphasize this is limited.
[14:20.480 --> 14:25.160]  We aren't big on this but we will allow a little bit of it.
[14:25.280 --> 14:26.960]  Perhaps we should point out.
[14:27.040 --> 14:34.220]  If you're Microsoft, no, I don't care if you give us a million bucks, we're not going to have the name Microsoft in our conference program.
[14:34.420 --> 14:41.220]  It's something, you know, companies that are not huge fortune three companies or whatnot.
[14:41.520 --> 14:43.900]  We have more details if you're interested.
[14:44.340 --> 14:48.020]  Sponsor at 2600.com I think works or sponsors.
[14:49.540 --> 14:50.140]  But...
[14:50.140 --> 14:51.160]  Let's be sure about that.
[14:51.840 --> 14:53.080]  I think sponsors.
[14:53.360 --> 15:07.440]  But anyway, the point is that we would prefer people from our community, people who get what hope is about and people who understand 2600 maybe and hacker culture in general and who maybe are unknown, right?
[15:07.700 --> 15:07.860]  Yeah.
[15:08.180 --> 15:20.060]  Organizations, businesses, things that maybe could use a little bit of attention and that may also perk the interests of our audience which is the hacker community at large.
[15:20.180 --> 15:22.240]  And for those of you thinking, oh, you guys have sold out.
[15:22.340 --> 15:22.780]  No, we haven't.
[15:22.920 --> 15:26.780]  We've actually been doing this the last few conferences and it's low-key.
[15:27.040 --> 15:28.620]  It gets to the right people.
[15:29.860 --> 15:33.400]  The sponsors are happy and the attendees are happy.
[15:33.680 --> 15:34.880]  You get a thank you in the program.
[15:34.880 --> 15:36.880]  You get a mention in the closing ceremonies.
[15:38.480 --> 15:44.240]  You get a table, I believe, sometimes for various recruitment efforts and things like that.
[15:44.340 --> 15:46.060]  But it's not...
[15:46.060 --> 15:50.740]  It doesn't turn into the Hope Conference sponsored by Shell or something like that.
[15:51.020 --> 15:51.380]  No.
[15:51.840 --> 15:53.180]  That's not a possibility.
[15:53.200 --> 15:53.820]  That will never happen.
[15:53.820 --> 16:01.700]  And the only other thing I'll say is that we're confirmed we will have substantial internet uplink like we did in Hope.
[16:02.560 --> 16:03.600]  Oh, let's see.
[16:03.840 --> 16:05.460]  Both 2012 and 2014.
[16:05.640 --> 16:08.420]  No, I think 2014 for sure was the big leap.
[16:08.680 --> 16:09.460]  Yeah, that was the big leap.
[16:09.840 --> 16:11.200]  Okay, well, let's get some history here.
[16:11.260 --> 16:14.320]  We started in 1994 with the first Hope Conference.
[16:14.740 --> 16:16.700]  I think we had a 20...
[16:16.700 --> 16:18.980]  Was it 28-8 modem or was it 14-4?
[16:19.120 --> 16:19.700]  Does anybody remember?
[16:19.840 --> 16:20.440]  Bernie, do you remember?
[16:20.440 --> 16:29.160]  I think we had two bonded dial-up internet connections and we bonded them for like double the speed of I think 28-8.
[16:29.280 --> 16:31.260]  So it was like super fast internet.
[16:31.500 --> 16:35.600]  It was like faster than you can even read for at least one person.
[16:36.000 --> 16:37.560]  And that was...
[16:37.560 --> 16:43.800]  We put the whole network operations center in the kitchen up on the 18th floor.
[16:44.000 --> 16:45.020]  And that was interesting.
[16:45.540 --> 16:45.900]  Wow.
[16:46.260 --> 16:47.200]  The kitchen of the hotel.
[16:47.440 --> 16:47.640]  Yes.
[16:47.940 --> 16:48.180]  Yes.
[16:48.400 --> 16:51.800]  The kitchen of the hotel amongst the salad bowls and things.
[16:52.020 --> 16:53.380]  Well, anyway, from there...
[16:53.380 --> 16:54.500]  Graduated a bit from there.
[16:54.620 --> 17:02.420]  Yeah, we got a little bit better and we eventually figured out how to have a wireless connection from a building downtown to the Hotel Pen.
[17:02.760 --> 17:06.480]  Keep in mind, the Hotel Pen, it's been around since like, you know, the ancient Romans.
[17:07.000 --> 17:11.780]  And they didn't have the best connectivity going into that place.
[17:12.500 --> 17:14.420]  What challenges, Kyle, are we facing?
[17:14.420 --> 17:15.680]  It was just copper?
[17:15.800 --> 17:17.960]  There was no fiber to the building or something like that?
[17:18.240 --> 17:22.820]  Yeah, I could go into this in detail, but it's really about knowing what they even had.
[17:23.220 --> 17:25.360]  And it's very hard to get answers.
[17:25.580 --> 17:27.300]  It is a massive facility.
[17:27.480 --> 17:28.760]  There are many unknown floors.
[17:28.940 --> 17:39.740]  There are many locations for, well, a lot of different connectivity going into the building for different businesses and, of course, the hotel and different infrastructure that's right in that area.
[17:40.020 --> 17:52.740]  So, even getting good answers on that, it took a fair amount of research for us to slowly figure out how to do what we started at our previous event and are going to continue now.
[17:52.900 --> 17:55.500]  So, Hope X was the beginning of basically several...
[17:55.500 --> 17:56.000]  Hang on, hang on.
[17:56.080 --> 18:00.400]  I don't want to skip over what the bandwidth was for that time period when we got the wireless.
[18:00.580 --> 18:01.640]  It was something like what?
[18:01.780 --> 18:04.600]  Yeah, our microwave link was around 50 megabits.
[18:04.720 --> 18:05.360]  50 megabits.
[18:05.440 --> 18:05.600]  Yeah.
[18:05.720 --> 18:06.260]  That's a lot.
[18:06.340 --> 18:06.880]  For many years.
[18:06.880 --> 18:14.040]  And in fact, when that started, I believe that was pretty quick for everyone to be able to share.
[18:14.280 --> 18:18.860]  In other words, switch and have it be load balanced, kind of like the 28.8 thing that Bernie was saying.
[18:19.040 --> 18:20.460]  But you weren't happy with it.
[18:20.600 --> 18:21.720]  You thought that wasn't fast.
[18:21.840 --> 18:23.640]  50 megabit, you thought it wasn't fast enough?
[18:24.060 --> 18:28.060]  Well, it's very fast, but I'd...
[18:28.060 --> 18:29.080]  Damn right, it's very fast.
[18:29.720 --> 18:41.520]  I yearned for more and I think I really wanted to see more improvements in the infrastructure, especially because of ultimately the cost.
[18:42.180 --> 18:47.480]  It was very expensive for this install and really logistically we needed access to the roof.
[18:47.640 --> 18:50.340]  There was a lot of complexity to the way that worked.
[18:50.820 --> 18:57.500]  So eventually we figured out a way to get optical internet through some existing connections at the hotel.
[18:57.500 --> 18:58.820]  That we found out about ourselves.
[18:58.820 --> 18:59.960]  It took two events.
[19:00.120 --> 19:05.900]  It took four years to actually unearth exactly how it all works and what's in the building, what we can actually do.
[19:06.120 --> 19:09.980]  We were able to explain to the hotel why they had better connectivity than they thought they had.
[19:10.260 --> 19:10.780]  Yeah.
[19:11.060 --> 19:20.720]  And then we were able to somehow get these masters to link things together and once it was done we went from 50 megabit to what now?
[19:21.140 --> 19:22.100]  60 megabit?
[19:22.280 --> 19:22.460]  No.
[19:22.460 --> 19:22.680]  70?
[19:22.920 --> 19:23.020]  What?
[19:24.200 --> 19:30.900]  We increased it 200 times so we moved up to 10 gigabit which we had an offer.
[19:31.040 --> 19:38.680]  We had standing offers for years but we couldn't ever get an optical or an appropriate connection to interface with it.
[19:38.740 --> 19:40.340]  In other words to make use of that offer.
[19:40.920 --> 19:49.480]  So it ended up taking all this research and a little bit of elbow grease to get the right things connected up.
[19:49.480 --> 19:52.540]  but we're able now after HopeX to make use of that offer.
[19:52.620 --> 20:02.200]  You're saying that we increased the bandwidth from 2012 to 2014 by a factor of 200 from 50 megabit to 10 gigabit.
[20:02.260 --> 20:02.500]  Yeah.
[20:02.640 --> 20:06.920]  10 gigabit to basically share with everyone.
[20:07.140 --> 20:10.280]  And of course our audience the attendees have grown in size.
[20:10.400 --> 20:17.920]  We have a the overall population of our attendees is greater than it was when we started and we need that to some degree.
[20:18.420 --> 20:20.640]  and people have more devices that are connected.
[20:20.820 --> 20:21.160]  That's right.
[20:21.720 --> 20:30.540]  And I'm sorry again I'm still flushing I'm just reading through some of the press releases that have come out and I'm seeing here an announcement that this year we're turning it up to 11.
[20:30.900 --> 20:31.220]  Yeah.
[20:31.340 --> 20:32.860]  And it's going to be 11 gigabit?
[20:33.340 --> 20:33.680]  Yes.
[20:33.900 --> 20:34.700]  You care to explain yourself?
[20:34.760 --> 20:43.360]  Well we went through the numbers and we looked at various knobs and dials that we can turn and we're going to turn it up this year.
[20:44.180 --> 20:48.720]  And yeah for the sake of conversation we're going to have 11 gigabit.
[20:48.720 --> 20:49.260]  All right then.
[20:49.520 --> 20:49.780]  All right.
[20:49.840 --> 20:53.340]  We're turning it up 11 gigabit this year at the Hope Conference.
[20:53.760 --> 20:54.740]  What do you think of that Rob?
[20:55.180 --> 20:56.940]  I'm pretty pleased with it.
[20:57.020 --> 21:13.400]  I remember the first conference I made it to which was H2K in 2000 the internet connectivity I don't know how much bandwidth you actually had but and this was before I joined Don's staff so I was just there as an attendee and the internet connectivity was basically one room full of dumb terminals running
[21:17.800 --> 21:18.220]  in usually.
[21:18.660 --> 21:19.740]  Yes, I remember that.
[21:20.580 --> 21:35.840]  Anyway, so we are really excited about that and we will have more information more details about exactly how to get online when you're at Hope and there is a possibility of very high speed wireless the new 802.11 AC standard is Oh, the air conditioned one.
[21:36.120 --> 21:37.220]  Yeah, the one with air conditioning.
[21:37.480 --> 21:38.440]  It gets so hot sometimes.
[21:38.440 --> 21:45.760]  It's really fast and there is a good chance that that is the wireless standard we'll be working with so it's very exciting.
[21:45.940 --> 21:46.540]  Very exciting.
[21:46.700 --> 22:09.100]  It is people are skipping around and just expressing all kinds of enthusiasm for this and you will be one of those people too at the Hope Conference 11 gigabit imagine that we have contests we have speakers we have all kinds of other activities and you know I gave the website before I said xi.hope.net you don't have to type the xi if that's confusing or anything hope.net will get there the reason
[22:09.100 --> 22:32.920]  I say xi is because every single conference is on there in Roman numerals so if say you wanted to look at hope number six you could type vi.hope.net and see the website there it took a lot of work to do this so I hope people appreciate it or i.hope.net yeah there's a lot of chiseling those Roman numerals you have to use a chisel it's a totally different typesetting process alright well what I'd
[22:32.920 --> 22:57.080]  really like to talk about tonight actually I don't want to talk about this but I feel compelled that we should talk about this because everybody's talking about no not Donald Trump although he probably factors into this somehow he's not everybody let's get that straight he's also not anybody but regardless another show I want to talk about this rash of celebrity Twitter hacks that's been going on
[22:57.080 --> 23:09.860]  because we're hearing about it everywhere we're hearing about everyone's Twitter account being hacked lately The one I like the best was Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook, the guy who started Facebook.
[23:11.640 --> 23:14.920]  Even he is not safe from getting his Twitter account hacked.
[23:15.580 --> 23:21.420]  Now, his Facebook account remained intact because he probably used a better password on that one.
[23:21.620 --> 23:25.580]  Does anybody know the password that he used on his Twitter account?
[23:26.360 --> 23:26.740]  Anybody?
[23:26.740 --> 23:26.840]  Anybody?
[23:27.180 --> 23:28.020]  I'd love to know.
[23:28.120 --> 23:28.820]  No, I'm shaking my head.
[23:28.820 --> 23:29.560]  Well, I can tell you.
[23:29.960 --> 23:32.140]  It's public information now.
[23:33.440 --> 23:34.240]  Iota, what?
[23:34.500 --> 23:34.840]  Tell us.
[23:34.840 --> 23:35.520]  Yeah, Jim, you know.
[23:35.600 --> 23:36.020]  Say it again.
[23:36.420 --> 23:36.740]  Iota.
[23:36.960 --> 23:37.900]  Well, it's close enough.
[23:39.700 --> 23:40.300]  Here we go.
[23:40.360 --> 23:40.720]  Here's a clue.
[23:43.820 --> 23:44.800]  That's his password.
[23:45.120 --> 23:46.380]  That was his password.
[23:47.060 --> 23:50.900]  Da-da-da was his password from the famous Trio song of 1982.
[23:51.980 --> 23:53.520]  I assume that's what he...
[23:54.820 --> 23:59.980]  It's the only time I ever heard those words being used in an entertaining manner.
[24:00.580 --> 24:01.840]  But yeah, that was... Okay, enough.
[24:02.020 --> 24:06.400]  That was his password for Twitter.
[24:06.880 --> 24:08.100]  This is what it comes down to, folks.
[24:08.220 --> 24:10.400]  You use a bad password, someone's going to get in.
[24:10.540 --> 24:11.540]  And it's not really hacking.
[24:11.540 --> 24:12.380]  It's guessing.
[24:12.560 --> 24:13.760]  It's just guessing a password.
[24:14.360 --> 24:19.000]  Or reading passwords from a master list because somebody else didn't protect the master list.
[24:19.000 --> 24:20.460]  Yeah, it's not even guessing.
[24:20.620 --> 24:26.180]  Usually, if it's a word in the dictionary, you can just set a piece of software loose on the account to try every word until you get something.
[24:26.320 --> 24:35.180]  Yeah, I was going to add, it's guessing the right application or tool to try to brute force it with a bunch of lists and other techniques.
[24:35.420 --> 24:36.480]  Well, it's unbelievable.
[24:36.880 --> 24:44.340]  I mean, maybe he just didn't care about... Maybe that's the comment for Twitter about how little he cares about Twitter, that he uses a password that anybody can guess.
[24:44.340 --> 24:46.880]  But it's also possible that it's linked to other passwords.
[24:47.080 --> 24:49.780]  Here's a reason why you should never use the same password twice.
[24:50.000 --> 24:56.760]  I know some people have difficulty with this, but it's essential that you not use the same password on more than one machine.
[24:56.760 --> 25:02.540]  Because if you do that, and something like this happens, well, all of a sudden, now they are in your Facebook account, if that matters to you.
[25:03.640 --> 25:09.740]  Or maybe your Gmail account, or maybe your home machine, or just all kinds of things that you use passwords for.
[25:09.740 --> 25:14.300]  Or if you use the same one, and it gets out, boy, there's a lot that can happen to you.
[25:14.500 --> 25:28.120]  Yeah, if you use one of these sites, and one of these big password leaks happens on that site, one of the first things that happens is people will take the list that leaks out, and try every login and password combination on the other big sites that people use.
[25:28.460 --> 25:33.340]  So, you know, that's a very good way to just get everything of yours owned at the same time.
[25:34.720 --> 25:36.520]  Bernie, any thoughts on this?
[25:37.240 --> 25:42.640]  Didn't I also read that Mark Zuckerberg got his account?
[25:42.940 --> 25:45.080]  Was this the Mark Zuckerberg account you're talking about?
[25:45.280 --> 25:46.720]  Well, how many Mark Zuckerbergs do you know?
[25:47.060 --> 25:48.060]  Okay, okay, okay.
[25:48.320 --> 25:49.600]  You tuned to the right station there, Bernie.
[25:50.200 --> 25:52.020]  I didn't hear you say whose it was.
[25:52.160 --> 25:53.840]  Yeah, Mark Zuckerberg from Facebook, that one.
[25:53.940 --> 25:57.360]  Celebrities are getting their account hacked, I think, every day.
[25:57.360 --> 26:00.260]  We just don't hear about it a lot, but it's extremely common.
[26:00.260 --> 26:22.180]  And everything from high-ranking politicians, even really brilliant people you would think would choose a good password, like Sarah Palin, even people like her have had their email accounts hacked, because the, not just the account password, but the, you know,
[26:22.240 --> 26:31.300]  the secret question thing where you, like, if you forget your password, it'll ask you, like, the answers to the secret questions you've created.
[26:31.720 --> 26:37.660]  And, you know, people are really smart, like Sarah Palin, choose questions that anybody can really look up in the public record.
[26:37.740 --> 26:38.740]  What high school did I go to?
[26:38.740 --> 26:39.600]  Yeah, something like that.
[26:39.600 --> 26:40.280]  Exactly.
[26:40.480 --> 26:41.580]  What was it when they were in high school?
[26:41.860 --> 26:42.140]  And, uh...
[26:42.140 --> 26:43.520]  Of course, we all know the answer is none.
[26:43.620 --> 26:44.800]  What was your mother's maiden name?
[26:44.900 --> 26:46.300]  I mean, ridiculous stuff.
[26:46.500 --> 26:54.180]  Yeah, and if Sarah Palin was trying to confuse people and said that, like, the school she went to was Mars or something, people wouldn't buy that.
[26:54.240 --> 26:55.180]  They would guess that, too.
[26:56.920 --> 26:58.600]  That would be my second guess as well.
[26:58.780 --> 27:05.800]  But, you know, there are people... I've had this ridiculous conversation with people who say, no, you have to tell the truth when you give a...
[27:05.800 --> 27:15.260]  When Hotmail asks a question, you can't lie and say that your first pet wasn't named Spot, that it was actually, you know, named the New York Mets or something.
[27:15.640 --> 27:16.880]  There's no rules against that.
[27:16.940 --> 27:18.120]  You can be as creative as you'd like.
[27:18.200 --> 27:22.180]  You can not only lie to machines, you can lie to people that you don't know.
[27:22.320 --> 27:24.720]  Don't lie to your friends, don't lie to your loved ones.
[27:24.800 --> 27:25.500]  Don't lie to yourself.
[27:25.740 --> 27:28.260]  But you can lie to the AT&T rep on the phone.
[27:28.500 --> 27:29.960]  You know, we do that all the time.
[27:31.100 --> 27:33.160]  But, yeah, it's happening all over the place.
[27:33.160 --> 27:35.080]  Here's another article.
[27:35.480 --> 27:37.740]  The Commissioner of the NFL.
[27:38.180 --> 27:44.080]  Yeah, Tuesday, someone hacked the NFL's Twitter account and announced that Commissioner Roger Goodell...
[27:44.080 --> 27:44.800]  Am I pronouncing it right?
[27:45.020 --> 27:45.380]  Goodell.
[27:45.500 --> 27:45.880]  Thank you, Jim.
[27:46.900 --> 27:48.880]  They announced that Roger Goodell had died.
[27:49.020 --> 27:50.660]  Now, that's really tasteless and stupid.
[27:50.660 --> 27:53.680]  If you're going to get into somebody's account, really, that's the best you can do.
[27:53.940 --> 28:01.700]  Anyway, Goodell responded with an attempt at self-deprecating humor on Twitter, unless that, too, was a hack, according to this story on NBC Sports.
[28:02.360 --> 28:06.180]  It's, man, you leave the office for one day of golf and your own network kills you off.
[28:06.200 --> 28:07.440]  He said, I think that's pretty funny.
[28:07.600 --> 28:08.220]  I think...
[28:08.220 --> 28:10.960]  And it's exactly the way you should respond to something like that.
[28:11.600 --> 28:17.520]  But it's interesting because the way this article on NBCSports.com concludes...
[28:17.940 --> 28:18.560]  Listen to this.
[28:18.560 --> 28:24.600]  With the league contacting law enforcement regarding the hack, any efforts at humor likely will end with Goodell's tweet.
[28:25.260 --> 28:32.580]  Surely the league will push for full and complete prosecution of whoever hacked into the 19.2 million follower account, as the league should.
[28:32.780 --> 28:33.300]  Really?
[28:33.660 --> 28:40.860]  Should the league, should anybody be calling the police over a Twitter account being accessed by someone who's unauthorized?
[28:40.860 --> 28:43.180]  Well, the NFL is a very rich and powerful organization.
[28:43.240 --> 28:46.940]  And, yes, the rich and powerful get to call the police to do their bidding, no matter how minor.
[28:47.180 --> 28:53.160]  I think this is a problem with putting so much emphasis on these platforms.
[28:53.440 --> 28:54.380]  I really...
[28:54.380 --> 29:10.920]  I think it is so stupid that these platforms, when they're set up and used for a specific organization, you have this hierarchy of value, that this football league is more important than individuals.
[29:11.160 --> 29:16.480]  And I just think it is putting so much emphasis on this, quoting people's tweets and stories.
[29:16.480 --> 29:21.120]  And, I mean, I just think it is really, really sad and diluting journalism.
[29:21.660 --> 29:24.520]  It's, you know, it's not a computer.
[29:24.900 --> 29:29.700]  I mean, it's run on a computer, but it's not getting into a computer that holds your email.
[29:29.700 --> 29:35.160]  It's not getting into your photo album or it's not bringing into your house.
[29:35.580 --> 29:42.580]  People are getting so upset over their Twitter accounts either being accessed or somebody retweeting in a way they don't like.
[29:43.160 --> 29:45.760]  I just cannot believe people are treating it so seriously.
[29:45.920 --> 29:52.800]  If someone gets into your Twitter account, get it back, you know, prove that you're who you are and use a better password and be done with it.
[29:52.860 --> 29:53.560]  Or start a new one.
[29:53.860 --> 29:57.580]  Well, there's that too, but you should get back, you know, the one that you've built up, I think.
[29:57.580 --> 30:01.840]  But to call law enforcement over this, isn't that a complete waste of time of their resources?
[30:02.580 --> 30:13.340]  It's also a symptom of just the media environment we're in because these accounts, you know, Twitter accounts, Facebook pages, whatever, they've become a very easy source of lazy journalism.
[30:13.800 --> 30:20.840]  If you want to talk about the NFL, all you have to do is look at their tweets and see what they're nattering on about and maybe make some meaningless article out of it.
[30:21.760 --> 30:25.200]  So it's got that value to it because it's seen as such a big deal.
[30:25.200 --> 30:32.060]  It's, you know, well, I've, you know, considering where this came from, it's got to be the real NFL or it's got to be the real Mark Zuckerberg or whatever.
[30:32.220 --> 30:38.320]  And people are just so inclined to believe what they read instantly and and not use any sort of critical thinking.
[30:38.660 --> 30:40.720]  Well, and yeah, I fully agree with that, Robin.
[30:40.760 --> 30:43.840]  It's like people's speech is associated with their Twitter.
[30:43.940 --> 30:53.760]  It's like if I don't say it with Twitter, if it didn't come like my sentiment, my opinion, my thought, if it didn't come on that platform, it's less important for whatever reason.
[30:53.760 --> 31:03.880]  I just think that is totally foolhardy for anybody to take that one little app so personally and so seriously to represent all of your speech.
[31:03.880 --> 31:04.760]  It is not.
[31:04.920 --> 31:06.340]  It's one mode of speech.
[31:06.500 --> 31:07.640]  Yeah, and it's, you know, it's fun.
[31:07.800 --> 31:08.520]  It's convenient.
[31:08.660 --> 31:16.440]  It can do all kinds of things, but it does not substitute for actual comments, actually speaking to somebody.
[31:16.700 --> 31:22.200]  How many times have we read a news story where the quote from the politician is so-and-so tweeted?
[31:22.200 --> 31:31.100]  Well, I'm sorry, if you tweet, it doesn't carry the same weight because it could be, you know, some 14-year-old kid in Georgia that's tweeting in your name.
[31:31.440 --> 31:39.700]  Whereas if you call somebody on the phone and they manage to get into your phone line and change their voice to match yours, that's a lot more sophisticated and a lot more unlikely to happen.
[31:40.140 --> 31:46.720]  But mostly it's, you know, you tend to express yourself, you know, if you have more than 140 characters to do so.
[31:46.820 --> 31:48.120]  It's great for people like Donald Trump.
[31:48.120 --> 31:58.200]  I know I said I wasn't going to talk about him, but, you know, it's perfect for that kind of mentality where you just have to spell every word wrong and say very little, but manage to offend everybody in the process.
[31:58.880 --> 32:02.920]  When you actually do interviews, though, that's something that we need to focus on.
[32:02.940 --> 32:03.280]  Yes, Bernie?
[32:03.280 --> 32:15.700]  I think a lot of politicians and maybe some celebrities actually have Twitter managers, like who manage their Twitter account and will send out tweets on their behalf to make them look good or smart or whatever.
[32:16.500 --> 32:22.140]  I mean, some of the best, some people we know or have electronic communications ghostwritten for them.
[32:22.140 --> 32:34.600]  And I would not be at all surprised if some Twitter politicians have, you know, people write, or they might run it by their boss, or maybe not.
[32:35.360 --> 32:39.860]  It's just like having a White House press spokesperson, you know?
[32:40.120 --> 32:44.260]  They just speak for the political entity.
[32:44.260 --> 32:49.280]  And so it's not a big deal, I think, if your Twitter account gets hacked.
[32:49.460 --> 32:54.640]  It's kind of just like your billboard getting hacked, and then, you know, you get it back.
[32:55.620 --> 32:57.100]  I don't know what the big deal is.
[32:57.260 --> 32:59.360]  Yeah, it's also always been a fact of online communication.
[32:59.500 --> 33:03.620]  I mean, those of us who have been around to see the growth of the web into something that's taken seriously.
[33:04.240 --> 33:09.160]  But how many hacked websites did we see over the course of, like, the 90s and the 2000s?
[33:09.160 --> 33:14.420]  You know, 2600 had an archive of them for a bit, or some of them anyway.
[33:14.620 --> 33:20.880]  And it was just a thing that happened for prank value or for, you know, some serious expression or what have you.
[33:20.980 --> 33:24.020]  But it was just something that happened, and then it was fixed, and then it was done, you know?
[33:24.360 --> 33:38.740]  But the fact that it's taken now as this huge deal and this huge violation and, like, analogous to committing an act of violence against somebody or stealing something of actual value rather than just fiddling with some bits, it's a...
[33:38.740 --> 33:39.380]  It's a prank.
[33:39.540 --> 33:39.900]  Yeah.
[33:40.240 --> 33:41.320]  Yeah, seeking damages.
[33:41.660 --> 33:46.380]  Like, can you imagine just the, like, the litigious environment we're creating?
[33:46.520 --> 33:47.580]  We're validating this.
[33:47.680 --> 33:54.840]  And as Bernie said, it isn't a big deal unless you're perceived to be important and thus more important than other people.
[33:54.840 --> 34:04.340]  If my cat's fake account or my pet turtle's account gets hacked, no one's going to go to bat for me.
[34:04.440 --> 34:05.580]  No one's going to get up in arms.
[34:05.660 --> 34:06.800]  No one's going to sue anybody.
[34:06.800 --> 34:09.360]  No one's going to care if they read it at all.
[34:09.540 --> 34:20.160]  Yet, when the DOJ's Twitter or some other entities really are perceived as important, then all of a sudden there's all this emphasis and people actually get hit with real consequences.
[34:20.180 --> 34:21.140]  And that is not fair.
[34:21.140 --> 34:23.580]  A permanent record over a twack?
[34:23.840 --> 34:26.900]  I think that is really, really boulder-dash.
[34:26.920 --> 34:27.800]  Did you just make up a word?
[34:28.000 --> 34:28.200]  Yeah.
[34:28.420 --> 34:29.080]  Okay, I like it.
[34:29.120 --> 34:29.960]  People getting twacked.
[34:30.140 --> 34:35.120]  But I should point out, though, that your cat is in violation of terms of agreeing by having a fake account.
[34:35.120 --> 34:35.940]  It should be a real account.
[34:35.960 --> 34:36.840]  I don't know why.
[34:37.360 --> 34:41.660]  Oh, so it's just like official Felix or something.
[34:41.660 --> 34:43.980]  Read the terms and, you know, very serious consequences.
[34:44.340 --> 34:45.800]  If you put official in front.
[34:45.840 --> 34:48.880]  It's ridiculous what people think is important these days.
[34:49.100 --> 34:56.060]  And, you know, if we could have gone ahead in time, say, 20 years ago and heard this conversation, we would say, what have you been drinking?
[34:56.380 --> 34:58.740]  How is it people take this kind of thing seriously?
[34:59.280 --> 35:01.800]  Now, here's something that I never thought I would say this.
[35:01.900 --> 35:03.020]  I really never thought I would say this.
[35:03.120 --> 35:06.680]  But I think Kylie Jenner is handling this very well.
[35:08.240 --> 35:08.640]  She...
[35:08.640 --> 35:11.540]  I have no idea what this person is famous for.
[35:11.720 --> 35:12.360]  I really don't.
[35:12.560 --> 35:12.980]  But she's famous.
[35:12.980 --> 35:13.720]  Being famous, that's it.
[35:13.800 --> 35:14.420]  Is that it?
[35:14.540 --> 35:16.120]  I mean, that's what it seems like to me.
[35:16.240 --> 35:16.880]  Yeah, and like...
[35:16.880 --> 35:17.400]  She's 18.
[35:17.660 --> 35:18.360]  And everybody...
[35:18.360 --> 35:20.560]  She's got like a billion followers on Twitter.
[35:20.560 --> 35:21.340]  And she was hacked.
[35:21.920 --> 35:22.320]  Really?
[35:22.360 --> 35:25.180]  I'm using the word very loosely because I don't believe this is hacking.
[35:25.460 --> 35:25.800]  Twacking.
[35:26.460 --> 35:28.380]  Is that really the word we're going to use for this?
[35:28.580 --> 35:29.300]  I made it up.
[35:29.420 --> 35:29.800]  No.
[35:30.100 --> 35:30.880]  Jim says no.
[35:31.040 --> 35:31.160]  Okay.
[35:31.340 --> 35:34.080]  Jim doesn't like it, but maybe listeners can weigh in on this.
[35:34.220 --> 35:35.180]  This is a lot of them.
[35:35.260 --> 35:41.880]  She insisted she doesn't care that her Twitter was hacked and even left the troll behind the sick prank to have fun.
[35:42.380 --> 35:43.200]  I don't know what that means.
[35:43.340 --> 35:45.500]  Even left the troll behind to have...
[35:46.480 --> 35:47.800]  Behind the sick prank to have...
[35:47.800 --> 35:49.420]  How is a sick prank, first of all?
[35:49.420 --> 35:51.680]  Well, I guess they said some offensive things.
[35:51.820 --> 35:51.980]  Okay.
[35:52.480 --> 35:53.320]  People are being immature.
[35:53.540 --> 35:55.740]  So she like ignored it and continued talking about someone else.
[35:55.740 --> 35:56.100]  Okay, because they said...
[35:56.100 --> 35:58.400]  They used her account to say that Jack Black had died as well.
[35:58.480 --> 36:01.980]  You know, if you're going to get into somebody's account, is that really the best you can do is say someone died?
[36:02.700 --> 36:07.120]  Why not just try and be like them a little bit so that they think, hey, did I actually say that?
[36:07.460 --> 36:10.120]  You know, announce things that don't actually happen.
[36:10.220 --> 36:11.120]  There are some people that get it right.
[36:11.700 --> 36:13.320]  Anyway, her account was hijacked.
[36:13.400 --> 36:14.400]  I guess that's probably a better word.
[36:14.820 --> 36:20.620]  Hijacked on Monday morning with a string of bizarre messages posted to her account, which boasts over 16 million followers.
[36:21.280 --> 36:24.480]  And if the hacker thought they'd disrupt her life, they were wrong.
[36:25.320 --> 36:26.040]  She said...
[36:26.040 --> 36:26.740]  She tweeted...
[36:26.740 --> 36:27.160]  Did she tweet?
[36:27.240 --> 36:28.100]  No, this is on Snapchat.
[36:28.260 --> 36:28.460]  I'm sorry.
[36:28.560 --> 36:28.940]  Totally different.
[36:29.780 --> 36:31.800]  So my Twitter was hacked and I don't really care.
[36:31.800 --> 36:33.020]  I'm just letting them have fun.
[36:33.280 --> 36:33.820]  I'm sorry.
[36:33.820 --> 36:42.920]  I had to print 20 pages of this article because the mirror in the UK felt that the only way the printer-friendly edition could print would be if they print all the pictures of her as well.
[36:43.680 --> 36:45.680]  So yeah, here's all the tweets.
[36:47.160 --> 36:48.020]  It's ridiculous.
[36:48.520 --> 36:49.720]  There's no substance here.
[36:49.860 --> 36:53.560]  But the reaction, the reaction I think was appropriate.
[36:53.560 --> 36:55.180]  Yeah, this is silly.
[36:55.540 --> 36:56.740]  Why worry about it?
[36:57.560 --> 36:58.900]  Here's one reason to worry about it.
[36:59.420 --> 37:01.000]  I've just got, you know, this just in.
[37:01.080 --> 37:02.140]  I get to be that guy on the radio.
[37:02.560 --> 37:15.780]  Our friend Junts, our man on the ground, who is listening to the program, sent a link to a story on Gizmodo today where apparently one tweet from Elon Musk, who we know is the boss of Tesla Motors, made $580 million disappear.
[37:17.000 --> 37:31.100]  Apparently Tesla, you know, Elon Musk posting a tweet that clarified that Tesla was working with one company and not another, added about $800 million to the company they're working with their stock value while their competition plunged about $580 million.
[37:32.500 --> 37:33.720]  So yeah, this was...
[37:33.720 --> 37:36.160]  That's not because of somebody hijacking an account.
[37:36.160 --> 37:38.800]  That's because people are stupid and they believe everything they hear.
[37:39.020 --> 37:40.400]  They don't ask questions.
[37:40.400 --> 37:41.560]  That's why that happened.
[37:42.500 --> 37:42.980]  Wow.
[37:43.860 --> 37:45.240]  But, you know, it continues.
[37:46.260 --> 37:49.380]  All kinds of other celebrities have been hit as well.
[37:49.560 --> 37:50.480]  But here's the thing.
[37:50.680 --> 37:51.120]  Here's the thing.
[37:51.120 --> 38:09.100]  This guy, this security news expert named Graeme Cluley, of which he does not have one apparently, said in a video, because that's another way to express yourself these days is posting videos, said that, yeah, while you may not care, what about your 16 million followers on Twitter?
[38:09.460 --> 38:11.160]  This is basically addressed to Kylie.
[38:11.740 --> 38:13.640]  Don't you think you should care about them?
[38:13.900 --> 38:20.740]  Because if your account had been hacked, Kylie, then potentially those users could have clicked on a link and gone somewhere malicious.
[38:21.020 --> 38:23.120]  Maybe they could have had their password phished.
[38:23.640 --> 38:29.320]  You see, the element of fear that is being handed out to everybody here.
[38:29.580 --> 38:34.760]  Yeah, a hacked Twitter account can be hazardous to your followers.
[38:35.460 --> 38:35.880]  Wow.
[38:36.420 --> 38:36.740]  Go ahead.
[38:36.860 --> 38:42.240]  And now some celebrity is expected to be sort of, what, some kind of den mother to all of their followers?
[38:42.480 --> 38:43.840]  Yeah, you're responsible for those people, Rob.
[38:43.980 --> 38:44.900]  Yeah, there's 60 million people.
[38:44.980 --> 38:46.260]  You're responsible for those people.
[38:46.260 --> 38:50.680]  And if they follow a link on your site, it's on you, you know?
[38:51.160 --> 38:53.440]  No, no, it is on society.
[38:53.740 --> 38:55.400]  I mean, this is such coddling.
[38:55.680 --> 39:07.000]  Like, you should not take on liability for a bunch of people reading some Web 2.0 platform that you're publishing to and then dictating their lives.
[39:07.120 --> 39:18.460]  It's like people suing Fox News for, you know, all the cutting they did and flogging because they were so upset at who they were, but so intent on blaming everyone else.
[39:18.640 --> 39:23.600]  I mean, it is, you know, and then being upset that because they were consuming that media, they turned into an idiot.
[39:23.820 --> 39:26.300]  I mean, it is bound to happen.
[39:26.300 --> 39:29.500]  It is a liability you take on as a consumer of that media.
[39:29.500 --> 39:33.660]  If you're consuming people's tweets without a critical eye, you've got a problem.
[39:34.140 --> 39:34.620]  All right.
[39:34.740 --> 39:34.900]  All right.
[39:34.960 --> 39:35.540]  Sit back down.
[39:36.480 --> 39:41.300]  Bernie, anything that you want to add to this emotional conversation we're having?
[39:41.300 --> 39:43.440]  I don't think I could get any more outraged than Kyle.
[39:43.520 --> 39:45.920]  No, I'm glad you're outraged, but you should be outraged.
[39:46.040 --> 39:46.640]  It's outrageous.
[39:46.860 --> 39:55.720]  But, you know, there are some times where I feel it goes over the line, where I feel that nothing is too horrible we can do to these people.
[39:55.900 --> 39:57.860]  Somebody hacked Sonic Youth's Twitter account.
[39:58.120 --> 39:58.480]  Yeah.
[39:58.700 --> 40:04.920]  They hacked it on Tuesday night, and they said that there was a reunion show taking place in Central Park in 25 minutes.
[40:05.020 --> 40:06.380]  Be here before it's too late.
[40:06.480 --> 40:06.980]  And you know what?
[40:06.980 --> 40:12.120]  There was no reunion show of any sort throughout the entire park.
[40:12.360 --> 40:13.540]  Big waste of time.
[40:15.100 --> 40:16.240]  But, yeah, you know what?
[40:16.260 --> 40:16.800]  That's a prank.
[40:17.380 --> 40:18.900]  People pull pranks all the time.
[40:19.120 --> 40:20.860]  What's changed are the instruments.
[40:21.080 --> 40:22.560]  The prank-pulling instruments have changed.
[40:23.880 --> 40:26.480]  And you've got to be aware of that kind of thing.
[40:26.580 --> 40:30.160]  So I guess the lesson here is play with technology.
[40:30.160 --> 40:37.240]  Do whatever you want to do, but don't take it as seriously as people tell you to take it, because nothing is secure.
[40:37.560 --> 40:40.220]  All kinds of things can be gotten around.
[40:40.500 --> 40:43.960]  And always take things with a grain of salt, right?
[40:44.360 --> 40:45.360]  Am I leaving anything out?
[40:46.120 --> 40:47.580]  I think that about covers it.
[40:47.660 --> 40:47.940]  All right.
[40:48.240 --> 40:51.960]  Hey, we want to take some phone calls, because we haven't been here in a couple of weeks.
[40:53.020 --> 40:56.160]  And we'd like to hear from our listeners again, if they're still there.
[40:58.860 --> 41:01.640]  718-780-8888 is our phone number.
[41:02.660 --> 41:05.320]  And if you call us now, we will pick up.
[41:06.120 --> 41:08.560]  Here's another example, though, of what I'm talking about here.
[41:09.060 --> 41:10.280]  There is this apartment complex.
[41:10.380 --> 41:11.660]  You've probably heard about this in...
[41:11.660 --> 41:12.160]  Where else?
[41:14.220 --> 41:15.080]  This is in Utah.
[41:15.560 --> 41:16.640]  I was going to say, where else?
[41:16.700 --> 41:16.940]  Florida.
[41:17.060 --> 41:17.840]  The last one was in Florida.
[41:17.940 --> 41:18.520]  This one's in Utah.
[41:18.680 --> 41:19.660]  I'm still not surprised.
[41:19.660 --> 41:27.080]  They got something called a Facebook addendum, which was put on their doors, their real doors, not their Facebook doors, if there's such a thing.
[41:29.220 --> 41:31.880]  Outlining what's expected of them.
[41:32.840 --> 41:36.840]  Most jarring was the requirement that they friend the complex within five days.
[41:38.220 --> 41:42.600]  First of all, just telling somebody you have to have a Facebook account is obscene enough.
[41:43.060 --> 41:45.340]  But to tell them what to do with it, wow.
[41:45.800 --> 41:48.060]  The predictable results are already rolling in.
[41:48.160 --> 41:53.800]  Rather than a flood of likes, the City Park Apartments contract became a story on KSL, a local TV station.
[41:54.220 --> 41:57.360]  By Sunday, the Associated Press picked up the story, made it national.
[41:57.640 --> 42:00.540]  The complex hasn't gotten the positive feedback it hoped for.
[42:00.720 --> 42:05.460]  Instead, it has racked up more than 800 one-star reviews on an unofficial Facebook page.
[42:06.480 --> 42:12.520]  I don't want to be forced to be someone's friend and be threatened to break my lease because of that, said tenant Jason Ring.
[42:12.740 --> 42:14.820]  It's outrageous as far as I'm concerned.
[42:15.620 --> 42:19.920]  For good measure, the addendum bans negative reviews as well.
[42:20.100 --> 42:21.580]  You're not allowed to give...
[42:21.580 --> 42:27.260]  Anytime someone tells you you're not allowed to post a negative review about anything, that is unacceptable.
[42:27.600 --> 42:33.300]  Now, in general, contracts that require customers to give up their rights to review services have not held up in court.
[42:33.300 --> 42:35.300]  So if someone tells you that, they're full of it.
[42:35.900 --> 42:38.560]  The contracts themselves can get companies into legal trouble.
[42:38.740 --> 42:50.040]  Back in 2003, in fact, a New York judge found that a contract banning customers from publishing reviews of software programs without prior consent violated that state's unfair competition law.
[42:50.980 --> 42:51.520]  Yeah.
[42:51.800 --> 42:56.980]  And, you know, the document also includes a release that allows the complex to post pictures of tenants and their visitors on Facebook.
[42:57.540 --> 42:59.360]  It's just unbelievable what people...
[42:59.360 --> 43:04.620]  I know, you know, people who live in condos and co-ops sometimes agree to the craziest terms.
[43:05.040 --> 43:07.540]  What color the water in the toilet has to be.
[43:07.640 --> 43:08.260]  Things like that.
[43:08.880 --> 43:11.000]  You know, it's incredible.
[43:11.160 --> 43:16.320]  We think about dictatorships as being national in nature, but lots of times they're local in nature.
[43:16.480 --> 43:21.300]  And you give people a little bit of power, and they abuse it, and other people just accept it.
[43:21.760 --> 43:25.620]  And, you know, you have to stand up to these things on whatever level they come at you.
[43:25.620 --> 43:31.800]  Yeah, and we can look at the terms of such a contract and say, you know, you can't post bad reviews, you have to be a Facebook friend, this is all ridiculous.
[43:32.360 --> 43:34.860]  But the internet is still a mystery to a lot of people.
[43:35.080 --> 43:37.900]  There are still many people who are not savvy.
[43:38.020 --> 43:46.200]  There are maybe older people or people who just don't pay enough attention to this sort of thing and who end up going along with it for fear of losing the place where they live.
[43:46.300 --> 43:48.940]  Can you blame them, though, for not paying attention to it?
[43:49.160 --> 43:52.060]  Seeing things like this happen, I would not want to pay attention.
[43:52.720 --> 43:53.360]  Most definitely.
[43:53.360 --> 43:55.160]  Well, and they'd be influenced, too.
[43:55.580 --> 43:56.880]  Everybody's using these now.
[43:57.020 --> 43:59.000]  Well, oh, of course, my management is using it.
[43:59.080 --> 43:59.860]  I must use it.
[44:00.020 --> 44:08.680]  The expectation is this is how the modern world works, and it's totally elective and not an obligation as a tenant.
[44:09.000 --> 44:13.880]  And it is, I think, preying on people that maybe don't necessarily understand.
[44:14.200 --> 44:21.520]  And it shows the outright desperation that people have, and anxiety, dare I say.
[44:21.520 --> 44:27.460]  And I'm saying this with respect to companies being individuals as well in a legalistic sense.
[44:27.620 --> 44:37.280]  There's just this utter desperation to be a part of this social network as though it is the only avenue for communication, only avenue for expression.
[44:37.280 --> 44:43.520]  And it just shows that this management company, they are pitting their survival, right?
[44:43.660 --> 44:53.400]  We're not going to get tenants unless we have good reviews, and we're going to now produce these reviews by enforcing some crazy made-up thing to our tenants.
[44:53.420 --> 45:05.700]  And that is the state of the emphasis on these platforms that just makes it so absurd to me, because they're so desperate, just like you're in middle school trying to get friends.
[45:05.700 --> 45:06.480]  Absolutely.
[45:06.840 --> 45:20.840]  And they always show these extremely fascinating signs of not getting it either, because like, for one thing, for this to be on Facebook, when I remember reading quite a few articles talking about how Facebook use is declining among younger people, it's not going to be the big thing for much longer.
[45:21.520 --> 45:24.720]  It's now the thing that people's moms use rather than the thing that people use.
[45:26.620 --> 45:33.660]  But also just the whole scene of social media use for professional purposes.
[45:34.120 --> 45:40.820]  There is this whole scene of people who buy Facebook likes, who buy Twitter followers, who buy retweets.
[45:40.940 --> 45:41.780]  But you can buy those?
[45:42.120 --> 45:48.040]  Yeah, you can get those in the thousands for comparatively little money, because they're really meaningless.
[45:48.040 --> 45:51.720]  It's just a little digital badge on whatever your presence is.
[45:51.720 --> 45:56.520]  And, you know, for all intents and purposes, they don't mean a thing.
[45:56.520 --> 46:03.460]  But it's something that you feel you have to have for your business to survive or for your public image to somehow be okay.
[46:04.180 --> 46:07.660]  And people will pay for this thing when, yeah, there is no value to it.
[46:07.680 --> 46:09.340]  That's the thing, you know, you have disputes.
[46:09.700 --> 46:11.600]  I used to see this all the time on IRC.
[46:11.700 --> 46:12.600]  Now I see it on Facebook.
[46:12.600 --> 46:13.340]  I see it on Twitter.
[46:14.020 --> 46:17.940]  These are, you know, it's, for lack of a better term, cyberspace.
[46:18.140 --> 46:21.640]  You have these arguments and fights, but people carry it into real life.
[46:21.640 --> 46:25.600]  And they get really upset and their blood pressure goes up and it ruins their day.
[46:26.040 --> 46:28.900]  And you have to tell yourself, hey, it's only IRC.
[46:29.060 --> 46:29.900]  It's only Facebook.
[46:30.060 --> 46:30.680]  It's only Twitter.
[46:30.840 --> 46:31.780]  It's only the internet.
[46:32.100 --> 46:38.380]  Now there's a real world out there, you know, start participating in that and get upset at the things that are going on in real life.
[46:38.460 --> 46:43.280]  Because yeah, I know, I know these are reflections, but it's speech.
[46:43.500 --> 46:48.280]  It's something that we can refute, we can get around, we can fix.
[46:49.000 --> 46:53.080]  There are all kinds of real world problems that I think people aren't paying enough attention to.
[46:53.540 --> 46:54.940]  I just... Go ahead, Bernie.
[46:55.040 --> 46:59.820]  And then I want to ask people to call because I see a bunch of calls on the wrong line.
[46:59.960 --> 47:00.740]  I don't know how they got there.
[47:01.540 --> 47:04.160]  718-780-8888 is our phone number.
[47:04.220 --> 47:05.100]  I think that's our phone number.
[47:05.200 --> 47:07.640]  So hopefully we'll get some calls coming in.
[47:07.740 --> 47:08.500]  Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
[47:08.720 --> 47:13.860]  You mentioned that, you know, Facebook fights spreading over into real life.
[47:14.000 --> 47:19.720]  I'm actually hearing examples of that on the Philadelphia police radio network.
[47:20.420 --> 47:24.260]  You know, the two-way radio system, digital radio system that the Philadelphia police use.
[47:24.560 --> 47:36.960]  Occasionally I'll hear of a domestic dispute or an act of violence even involving weaponry, guns, that the police then report in, started as a Facebook dispute.
[47:37.820 --> 47:39.180]  I mean, with guns!
[47:39.180 --> 47:41.020]  They're saying this on the radio?
[47:41.360 --> 47:43.120]  They're describing the history of the dispute?
[47:43.560 --> 47:44.040]  Yes.
[47:44.400 --> 47:44.680]  Wow.
[47:45.400 --> 47:47.360]  Started on Facebook and ended in gunfire.
[47:47.680 --> 47:47.980]  Yeah.
[47:48.520 --> 47:48.900]  Incredible.
[47:49.240 --> 47:55.820]  I think there's something wrong with our phones because I see more lines lighting up on the instrument I can't answer, and no lines lighting up on the one that I can.
[47:56.560 --> 48:00.880]  So please, maybe it takes a few people to break that problem.
[48:01.020 --> 48:02.880]  718-780-8888.
[48:03.280 --> 48:05.240]  I hope I'm not giving out the wrong number.
[48:05.560 --> 48:06.280]  I think it's the right number.
[48:06.580 --> 48:07.480]  You want to test it?
[48:07.680 --> 48:08.020]  Yeah, okay.
[48:08.580 --> 48:13.000]  I just wanted to reiterate what Rob said about how constructed a lot of those platforms are.
[48:13.160 --> 48:19.120]  There's, and I know Bernie mentioned this too, there are companies, they have people curating pages for them.
[48:19.260 --> 48:21.260]  So, I mean, that's as fake as a fake account.
[48:21.460 --> 48:24.740]  And then this buying likes, and of course, as we said, malware.
[48:24.920 --> 48:33.080]  There's rampant malware and a lot of different types of scams and companies that are infiltrating a lot of these networks, or have always been there.
[48:33.240 --> 48:39.240]  But that is something to be mindful of, to realize how constructed and engineered this is.
[48:39.380 --> 48:58.160]  And also, what Bernie said, I know for a fact in divorce cases and a lot of family law, there is more and more of technology, jealousy, texting, all kinds of things that need to be entered in to settle a lot of marital or other kinds of domestic disputes.
[48:58.440 --> 49:00.400]  Okay, we've got the phones fixed, I believe.
[49:00.620 --> 49:01.820]  We have a listener on the line.
[49:01.900 --> 49:02.180]  Good evening.
[49:02.320 --> 49:03.100]  You're on Off The Hook.
[49:03.100 --> 49:04.680]  Hi, guys.
[49:04.840 --> 49:05.500]  Love your show.
[49:05.680 --> 49:06.940]  I've been listening for years.
[49:07.400 --> 49:13.720]  And I wanted to know, do you, or have any of you heard of the show Person of Interest?
[49:14.300 --> 49:20.880]  And unfortunately, it's ending very soon, but it seems like you guys would have written the scripts for this show.
[49:20.980 --> 49:38.220]  It's so well written, and it touches in very deep ways on so many of the issues, the privacy issues and the nuances of control and too much power concentrated in the wrong hands and the misuse of technology.
[49:38.540 --> 49:50.180]  So I just wanted to know if you were aware of the show, and maybe we could start a letter-writing campaign to CBS or maybe one of the other networks would pick it up.
[49:50.420 --> 49:56.120]  Is that a fictional show, or is that more of a step-by-step kind of reality, educational type show?
[49:56.480 --> 50:01.820]  No, it's a dramatization, and it's just so well done.
[50:03.140 --> 50:14.260]  You know, the main character is a, for lack of a better term, a hacker in the best sense of the term, the way you guys were...
[50:14.260 --> 50:14.300]  Yeah.
[50:15.220 --> 50:24.360]  The writers and these shows, they're becoming ever more prevalent, and they're starting to get a lot of the story, a lot of the stuff being so popular and mainstream.
[50:24.360 --> 50:25.780]  Everybody's using technology.
[50:25.920 --> 50:28.700]  It's so ubiquitous that it is finding its way into a lot of the writing.
[50:28.860 --> 50:30.860]  And perhaps, dare I say, it's the other way around.
[50:30.980 --> 50:37.840]  Maybe a lot of the writers listen to programs like this and are aware because the stuff is so culturally significant at this juncture.
[50:37.840 --> 50:41.760]  Can I ask a listener, have you ever seen a program called CSI Cyber?
[50:43.140 --> 50:44.600]  No, I haven't seen that one.
[50:44.660 --> 50:44.800]  Okay.
[50:44.880 --> 50:46.840]  Well, that's probably one of the worst shows ever made.
[50:46.940 --> 50:49.380]  And let me ask you now, have you ever seen a show called Mr. Robot?
[50:50.240 --> 50:51.400]  No, I haven't seen that.
[50:51.400 --> 50:58.060]  That's one of the best shows ever made, and we suggest you find that and watch that and learn something about how the hacker world works.
[50:58.060 --> 50:59.340]  I think that's pretty accurate.
[50:59.340 --> 51:05.940]  Yeah, I mean, I've always been pretty fascinated at sort of Hollywood's interpretation of the hacker world and the technical world and stuff.
[51:06.160 --> 51:18.060]  And the thing I'm thinking is a factor now is that the people who are writing television now are the first generation of TV writers who have grown up with this as a fact of daily life, rather than older folks trying to figure out what it is the kids are fiddling with.
[51:18.460 --> 51:25.580]  So you get things like Mr. Robot, where people are savvy, they're more realistic about what's going on, what you can do.
[51:25.580 --> 51:26.600]  Yeah, absolutely.
[51:26.720 --> 51:29.480]  They don't need to do as much research because they lived it in a lot of ways.
[51:29.740 --> 51:37.800]  And there is a lot of stuff in between from the greatest to the worst as Emmanuel alluded to.
[51:37.880 --> 51:42.900]  The other thing is you get people now that are taking things like Twitter and Facebook seriously.
[51:43.020 --> 51:44.580]  So there's also that danger.
[51:44.760 --> 51:46.160]  We have a second call on the line.
[51:46.360 --> 51:46.860]  Good evening.
[51:47.000 --> 51:47.460]  You're on off the hook.
[51:47.540 --> 51:47.740]  Go ahead.
[51:49.860 --> 51:53.380]  Okay, we don't accept music on the telephone.
[51:53.580 --> 51:54.300]  I liked it.
[51:54.300 --> 51:54.920]  It was nice.
[51:55.100 --> 51:57.620]  It sounded good, but not what we're asking for.
[51:57.680 --> 51:57.920]  Good evening.
[51:58.040 --> 51:58.600]  You're on off the hook.
[51:59.120 --> 52:00.160]  Oh, I'm sorry.
[52:00.240 --> 52:01.280]  I got disconnected.
[52:01.700 --> 52:08.300]  But I just wanted to say, I just wanted to add that the show seems like it could have been written by you guys.
[52:08.360 --> 52:10.780]  And unfortunately, I think it's gotten the shaft.
[52:10.940 --> 52:12.460]  It should have won many awards.
[52:12.480 --> 52:13.060]  Is this one of ours?
[52:13.220 --> 52:17.420]  We ghostwrite a few shows on TV, some of them just to see how bad we can do.
[52:17.540 --> 52:19.300]  And those are the most popular ones, actually.
[52:19.600 --> 52:20.660]  We'll have to revisit that.
[52:20.740 --> 52:25.860]  We'll look out for it because we are aware of a lot of these things, but it's really about finding time to...
[52:26.500 --> 52:28.560]  I know we're not supposed to talk about it, but I didn't give it any names.
[52:28.660 --> 52:29.420]  So I think it's all right.
[52:29.760 --> 52:35.460]  Well, I also think some of us spend enough time being entertained and or horrified by the reality to write fiction.
[52:35.480 --> 52:38.380]  Let's move on to another phone call because we're stretching into legal territory here.
[52:38.380 --> 52:39.640]  Yeah, we can't talk about the ones we work on.
[52:39.740 --> 52:40.560]  It's the music again.
[52:40.680 --> 52:41.380]  Let's try this one over here.
[52:41.440 --> 52:41.780]  Good evening.
[52:41.920 --> 52:42.620]  You're on off the hook.
[52:43.140 --> 52:43.820]  Oh, excellent.
[52:44.000 --> 52:44.140]  Hey.
[52:44.520 --> 52:45.120]  What's on your mind?
[52:45.200 --> 52:49.560]  I just wanted to comment in context to talking about the whole social network thing.
[52:49.860 --> 52:50.840]  People getting caught up in it.
[52:51.240 --> 52:53.020]  Is your telephone on a telephone?
[52:53.540 --> 52:54.600]  Because it sounds that way.
[52:55.420 --> 52:57.680]  I got a headset on my nugget.
[52:57.840 --> 52:58.100]  Uh-huh.
[52:58.120 --> 52:59.080]  Is it still off?
[52:59.200 --> 52:59.660]  Oh, well, no.
[52:59.740 --> 53:01.680]  It's just you sound very tinny, but you know what?
[53:01.700 --> 53:02.500]  We can overlook that.
[53:02.620 --> 53:03.740]  So he's going over wireless.
[53:03.820 --> 53:04.080]  Look at this.
[53:04.120 --> 53:05.220]  All of a sudden, we have ten calls.
[53:05.420 --> 53:05.700]  Wow.
[53:05.840 --> 53:08.620]  We go from zero to one to ten, just like that.
[53:08.740 --> 53:09.940]  Okay, let's make it quick.
[53:10.000 --> 53:10.580]  What's on your mind?
[53:10.580 --> 53:11.740]  Uh, point of the cut, yes.
[53:12.020 --> 53:12.480]  Uh, contacts.
[53:12.700 --> 53:16.500]  A lot of the things start out as air quote community tools or like free tools.
[53:17.040 --> 53:22.720]  And then they get kind of subverted later to be for profit or the spread gets limited.
[53:23.020 --> 53:23.400]  Yes.
[53:23.660 --> 53:27.460]  For example, like glassdoor.com, you know, you can review feedback, that type of thing.
[53:27.580 --> 53:28.280]  Not doing a plug.
[53:28.460 --> 53:29.660]  They probably won't like this one.
[53:30.400 --> 53:34.400]  But if you get critical feedback, they give you a buyout option at X threshold.
[53:34.640 --> 53:39.360]  And then the company can then moderate any comments after that point forward.
[53:40.020 --> 53:40.340]  Interesting.
[53:40.340 --> 53:43.840]  But they can't retract the previous, like if they get negative feedback.
[53:45.000 --> 53:48.260]  Well, speaking of feedback, okay, that's interesting to know.
[53:48.440 --> 53:49.280]  Any comments on that?
[53:49.980 --> 53:50.300]  No?
[53:50.440 --> 53:50.620]  Okay.
[53:51.000 --> 53:51.340]  Well, thanks.
[53:51.500 --> 53:52.220]  Thanks for that call.
[53:52.360 --> 53:53.460]  We're going to move on to another one.
[53:53.540 --> 53:54.200]  We have so many now.
[53:54.280 --> 53:54.560]  Good evening.
[53:54.680 --> 53:55.400]  You're on off the hook.
[53:56.120 --> 53:57.280]  Oh, that's a dial tone.
[53:57.420 --> 53:58.440]  I bet every line is going to be that.
[53:58.440 --> 54:00.000]  Why do you think every line is a dial tone?
[54:01.540 --> 54:03.320]  It's music or a dial tone, apparently.
[54:03.820 --> 54:04.080]  Okay.
[54:04.160 --> 54:05.280]  Someone's got a multi-line phone.
[54:05.380 --> 54:05.840]  Is that the deal?
[54:05.920 --> 54:06.140]  Good evening.
[54:06.140 --> 54:06.840]  You're on off the hook.
[54:07.320 --> 54:07.680]  No.
[54:07.700 --> 54:08.220]  Dial tone.
[54:08.500 --> 54:08.920]  All right.
[54:09.120 --> 54:09.840]  I called it.
[54:10.720 --> 54:11.980]  You didn't call it though.
[54:12.120 --> 54:13.720]  You didn't actually make the phone call.
[54:13.740 --> 54:15.560]  They can't all light up like that and be different.
[54:15.740 --> 54:15.920]  Yeah.
[54:16.000 --> 54:18.800]  Well, we know we're not playing the music and we're not playing the tones.
[54:19.300 --> 54:19.660]  Wow.
[54:19.780 --> 54:19.880]  Yeah.
[54:19.940 --> 54:21.040]  It's somebody with a multi-line phone.
[54:21.760 --> 54:22.580]  Is this a person?
[54:22.760 --> 54:23.540]  No, it's more music.
[54:23.800 --> 54:24.160]  Okay.
[54:24.160 --> 54:33.820]  You know, I respect what people have, but you could be using this ability for something constructive and wasting other people's time because...
[54:34.280 --> 54:34.720]  Wow.
[54:35.020 --> 54:35.540]  Look at that.
[54:35.660 --> 54:36.500]  All the lines are lit.
[54:36.660 --> 54:37.660]  One person did that.
[54:38.060 --> 54:38.720]  That's cool.
[54:39.060 --> 54:42.320]  I'd like to be able to use this for my own purposes, if that's possible.
[54:43.360 --> 54:45.200]  Oh, and we lost Bernie too in the process.
[54:45.360 --> 54:45.640]  Somehow.
[54:46.080 --> 54:47.200]  So that's like 10 lines.
[54:47.360 --> 54:49.940]  We can't get Bernie back because all of them are going to be this.
[54:49.940 --> 54:49.960]  Yes.
[54:51.380 --> 54:51.740]  Hello?
[54:52.180 --> 54:52.700]  Good evening.
[54:53.000 --> 54:53.700]  Oh, this is Bernie.
[54:53.880 --> 54:54.600]  Somehow I got hung up.
[54:54.660 --> 54:55.020]  Wow.
[54:55.300 --> 54:55.740]  Hey, Bernie.
[54:55.760 --> 54:57.320]  I picked a random line and it was you.
[54:58.040 --> 54:58.580]  That's awesome.
[54:58.820 --> 54:59.620]  Ah, that's how it works.
[54:59.720 --> 54:59.900]  Yeah.
[55:00.040 --> 55:02.820]  You got disconnected somehow and then I picked up and there you were.
[55:03.420 --> 55:03.700]  Yeah.
[55:03.800 --> 55:06.760]  It seems every call is either music or a tone.
[55:10.140 --> 55:11.920]  I don't even know what this is about.
[55:13.740 --> 55:15.360]  Somebody really wants to get the message across.
[55:16.560 --> 55:18.100]  That's three lines, four lines.
[55:19.720 --> 55:20.160]  Yeah.
[55:20.820 --> 55:28.760]  And now imagine this kind of control in the hands of, I don't know, people in power that want you to only hear one side.
[55:28.960 --> 55:31.720]  Right now, this is called jamming, folks.
[55:31.980 --> 55:33.300]  We are being jammed.
[55:33.400 --> 55:34.700]  You cannot reach us.
[55:34.760 --> 55:35.820]  Well, somehow Bernie reached us.
[55:35.880 --> 55:36.540]  That's because he's a hacker.
[55:36.680 --> 55:37.380]  He can get through anything.
[55:37.720 --> 55:46.760]  But if you're trying to reach us at 718-780-8888, this guy here is keeping you from speaking.
[55:47.260 --> 55:47.620]  Yeah.
[55:47.920 --> 55:48.880]  There's nothing we can do.
[55:49.020 --> 55:49.560]  We're powerless.
[55:49.800 --> 55:50.720]  We don't have caller ID.
[55:50.900 --> 55:51.500]  We can't trace it.
[55:51.580 --> 55:52.420]  And he could be blocking it.
[55:53.100 --> 55:53.820]  So this is...
[55:54.360 --> 55:54.780]  Thank you.
[55:54.920 --> 56:01.420]  Thank you, caller, or listener, or whatever you are, for demonstrating so well how we're at the mercy of high tech sometimes.
[56:01.420 --> 56:03.120]  And there's no way around this.
[56:03.240 --> 56:04.780]  Are we sure this isn't just Bernie singing?
[56:05.200 --> 56:05.440]  No.
[56:05.840 --> 56:06.180]  Bernie?
[56:06.620 --> 56:08.140]  You have something you want to tell us?
[56:09.240 --> 56:10.560]  No, I can't sing that well.
[56:10.740 --> 56:11.060]  All right.
[56:11.500 --> 56:14.120]  Well, you know, it's just as well because we're pretty much out of time anyway.
[56:15.260 --> 56:16.780]  But you can write to us.
[56:17.020 --> 56:17.620]  They can jam...
[56:17.620 --> 56:18.760]  Well, they can jam that too.
[56:18.920 --> 56:21.400]  But write to us before they jam that.
[56:21.520 --> 56:23.640]  O-T-H at 2600.com.
[56:23.780 --> 56:24.600]  That's our email address.
[56:25.140 --> 56:32.580]  Again, the contest information we posted on hope.net for all you young writers out there that are interested in the HOPE conference.
[56:33.640 --> 56:42.060]  Keep checking the website, the hope.net website for news on some of the speakers, in addition to the ones that Bernie S leaked earlier in the evening.
[56:42.820 --> 56:49.140]  And there'll be more announcements too, involving things such as networks and various other HOPE activities.
[56:49.360 --> 56:51.080]  Also, you can follow us on Twitter.
[56:51.080 --> 56:53.300]  You can follow us now on Instagram, I see.
[56:53.300 --> 56:54.220]  How do people do that?
[56:54.300 --> 56:55.660]  Do they need some kind of degree or something?
[56:56.120 --> 56:56.940]  I don't know.
[56:57.060 --> 56:59.060]  What's the username on Twitter?
[56:59.640 --> 57:00.440]  Twitter, it's...
[57:00.440 --> 57:00.600]  Hold on.
[57:00.640 --> 57:01.060]  I know this.
[57:02.480 --> 57:02.840]  HopeConf.
[57:03.080 --> 57:03.440]  HopeConf.
[57:03.660 --> 57:03.860]  Oh, wait.
[57:03.880 --> 57:05.040]  I thought you meant the 2600 one.
[57:06.020 --> 57:07.300]  2600 is what I'm being told.
[57:07.440 --> 57:08.040]  Well, that's...
[57:08.040 --> 57:08.160]  2600.
[57:08.260 --> 57:09.120]  Why didn't you just say that?
[57:09.320 --> 57:09.680]  2600.
[57:10.000 --> 57:11.500]  You can also get 2600 on Twitter.
[57:11.660 --> 57:11.860]  Okay.
[57:11.900 --> 57:13.400]  But also, specifically the HOPE conference.
[57:13.580 --> 57:14.160]  HOPE conf.
[57:14.300 --> 57:15.860]  H-O-P-E-C-O-N-F.
[57:16.940 --> 57:17.300]  Okay.
[57:17.580 --> 57:19.080]  Personal Computer Show is up now.
[57:19.080 --> 57:21.500]  I hope you guys like music because that's what's calling in tonight.
[57:21.500 --> 57:23.620]  Uh, we're out of here for tonight.
[57:23.640 --> 57:24.940]  Back in next week.
[58:54.070 --> 58:56.550]  Because you were never really real.
[58:56.550 --> 58:57.150]  You're never real.
[58:57.570 --> 58:57.710]  You
[59:30.690 --> 59:31.550]  must be!
[59:32.330 --> 59:36.470]  I've just made your up to make myself alive.
[59:36.590 --> 59:40.890]  I've just made your up to make myself alive.
[01:01:45.220 --> 01:01:48.040]  On me, on me, on me, on...