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[00:04.060 --> 00:04.760]  to 6 p.m.
[00:04.780 --> 00:06.180]  and ask for Magali.
[00:06.520 --> 00:10.800]  Again, that's 212-581-9859.
[00:10.960 --> 00:14.420]  And please say the code CONSABOLLATINO, I LIKE IT LIKE THAT.
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[00:33.060 --> 00:38.940]  And you are listening to WBAI 99.5.
[00:44.190 --> 00:54.610]  You are indeed listening to WBAI 99.5 FM New York, where the time is just about slightly after 7 p.m.
[00:55.470 --> 01:02.050]  And that means it's slightly after a time for another exciting edition, a special two-hour edition of Off the Hook.
[01:09.030 --> 01:30.910]  The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much worse From Biddley Bump But the best is back from worst I hope that's understood From Biddley Bump
[02:29.770 --> 02:31.170]  A very good evening.
[02:32.930 --> 02:35.690]  This program is Off the Hook Rob T.
[02:35.830 --> 02:48.650]  Firefly Here with you I am joined in the studio By Jim Hello And I am joined over Future Type Digital Communications By Bernie S.
[02:49.890 --> 02:52.290]  Greetings from Philadelphia Can you hear me okay?
[02:52.810 --> 02:54.950]  I can hear you fine Oh great!
[02:55.050 --> 02:55.490]  It's working!
[02:55.770 --> 03:07.650]  It is indeed We are getting you Once again through Skype And through Skype To a telephone number So that sort of action Is going on Why are we using Skype Instead of a phone line?
[03:08.050 --> 03:11.550]  Because we haven't At present got a phone line But Oh!
[03:12.090 --> 03:36.730]  Okay That's being worked on Emmanuel and Kyle Should be here shortly They are I think They're having a fight Or something outside They're just You know Taking swings at pedestrians And things like that But Before they get here We could start Talking about There was this thing That we were involved in That happened recently We might have mentioned it Once or twice on this program Hope Bernie You
[03:36.730 --> 03:57.150]  were at Hope The 11th Hope That is the 11th Hope In 22 years Just happened July 22nd 23rd and 24th And I'm still I think I'm just Catching up On days of sleep Deprivation And sore feet And I know you helped a lot to make this thing happen, Rob.
[03:57.470 --> 04:05.650]  And I think we made thousands of people really happy and informed about all kinds of things happening.
[04:05.650 --> 04:07.170]  We had like 150 speakers there.
[04:07.290 --> 04:08.410]  It was an amazing event.
[04:08.850 --> 04:09.990]  Yeah, it really was.
[04:10.110 --> 04:12.690]  I say this every time, but only because it's true every time.
[04:12.690 --> 04:15.010]  I think it was the best one we'd ever done.
[04:16.070 --> 04:17.610]  We just keep getting better at this.
[04:17.670 --> 04:23.930]  You might actually think that we're getting good at this, but I don't want to say that because it could fall apart.
[04:25.250 --> 04:26.290]  It's a possibility.
[04:26.970 --> 04:40.810]  But yeah, so some of the stuff that we had made happen, some of the talks that we had sought out and the excellent submissions that we got, far more than we had time on the schedule for.
[04:41.010 --> 04:45.190]  But it was fun to see some of them actually turn up in the fourth track room.
[04:45.790 --> 04:48.590]  But just it was an amazing experience.
[04:48.590 --> 04:50.970]  And I, too, am still sort of in recovery mode.
[04:50.970 --> 04:57.770]  It's been about a week and a half now, and I think I'm just now sort of decompressed and ready to face real life again.
[04:58.930 --> 05:01.510]  Yeah, it's bizarre how much it takes out of us.
[05:01.870 --> 05:05.530]  And there was a lot of volunteers that made this thing happen, and countless volunteers.
[05:05.770 --> 05:06.570]  Countless volunteers.
[05:06.810 --> 05:12.050]  It takes a lot out of us, but it's also, it's just really being part of something important.
[05:12.350 --> 05:17.350]  And I'm sure a lot of our listeners who I'm hoping we can take calls from later attended this conference.
[05:17.350 --> 05:18.930]  I met a lot of new people who...
[05:18.930 --> 05:22.490]  I met, I think, more new people at Hope this year than any other.
[05:22.630 --> 05:23.270]  How about you?
[05:23.910 --> 05:25.130]  I would say the same.
[05:25.350 --> 05:26.730]  There's kind of a wrestling going on here.
[05:26.850 --> 05:28.170]  Guys, what time do you call this?
[05:30.090 --> 05:32.410]  We are now joined in the studio by Kyle and Emmanuel.
[05:32.950 --> 05:33.670]  Hey, how's it going?
[05:33.910 --> 05:35.010]  And I will shift seats.
[05:35.510 --> 05:36.250]  Just a moment.
[05:39.700 --> 05:40.460]  Yes, indeed.
[05:40.460 --> 05:41.080]  We're here.
[05:41.340 --> 05:44.460]  It's good to be here.
[05:45.280 --> 05:47.540]  Pardon the interruption, and thank you.
[05:47.820 --> 05:53.040]  Well, it's annoying as hell, because, you know, usually the Waze program works.
[05:53.200 --> 05:56.340]  You know, that app that you use on cell phones.
[05:56.480 --> 05:56.820]  Right.
[05:57.040 --> 05:57.980]  Today, it did not.
[05:58.140 --> 05:59.440]  It didn't work very well at all.
[06:00.700 --> 06:02.220]  It lied to us.
[06:02.480 --> 06:03.560]  Have you ever heard this happen?
[06:03.780 --> 06:04.440]  It lied.
[06:04.440 --> 06:09.200]  It basically, well, first of all, it put us on these roads with more cars than I've ever seen before.
[06:09.320 --> 06:11.460]  When we were on a road that was perfectly fine.
[06:11.560 --> 06:13.220]  Okay, you know, everybody makes mistakes.
[06:13.520 --> 06:14.480]  But then it lied.
[06:14.660 --> 06:19.480]  It said, okay, you arrive at your destination in five minutes, and we were still in Queens.
[06:19.640 --> 06:22.260]  There's no way, even on an airplane, we couldn't have arrived that quickly.
[06:22.620 --> 06:30.020]  And what it did was it just kept incrementing by one minute at a time so that it would always be right, even though it was lying to us.
[06:30.020 --> 06:34.440]  Yeah, it was punishing us and way, way off with the time.
[06:34.660 --> 06:40.240]  Yeah, so that's, it's just, it's, it's not cool when, when devices lie to you.
[06:40.400 --> 06:41.880]  And it seems to be happening more and more.
[06:43.120 --> 06:43.580]  Emmanuel?
[06:43.860 --> 06:44.260]  Yes, Bernie?
[06:45.560 --> 06:57.440]  You know, I see this happening more and more where people start relying on technology to do things that we used to be able to do without any technology, you know, like a paper map, and we would just know how long it would take to get there.
[06:57.500 --> 07:01.180]  And we knew how to get there based on, you know, the traffic we've experienced in the past.
[07:01.600 --> 07:05.460]  Do you think we're just all getting dumber from using these technologies?
[07:07.960 --> 07:08.880]  Not you personally.
[07:09.440 --> 07:18.020]  Well, I mean, I think in general, we're, we're suffering with, with a transition to having the tools that we have.
[07:18.020 --> 07:32.700]  I think that our, we're, we're on one extreme or the other, like you say, not wanting to use it or being overly reliant upon it and not being able to improvise or ordeal without, when it goes wrong.
[07:33.040 --> 07:38.460]  And, and, and the, the doubly unfortunate thing is that oftentimes things do go wrong.
[07:39.460 --> 07:44.340]  Because things are still, things are still new and being worked out and, and such.
[07:44.760 --> 07:52.440]  I think the question that's on all the listeners' minds right now is, using this extra time you had on the road, did you catch any extra Pokemon?
[07:52.900 --> 07:54.760]  Well, no, actually, I did not.
[07:55.700 --> 08:04.060]  It's very frustrating because when you're in a car, they go by too fast and they're really hard to, I thought I was killing them.
[08:04.140 --> 08:05.180]  But apparently I'm collecting them.
[08:05.360 --> 08:06.260]  That's, that's what I'm doing.
[08:06.600 --> 08:08.860]  Are you enjoying it less now that you know you're not killing them?
[08:08.900 --> 08:09.820]  Well, what am I supposed to do with them?
[08:09.900 --> 08:10.900]  Do I have to feed these things?
[08:10.900 --> 08:17.080]  Well, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's a bit, it's a bit confusing, but I'm trying, you know, I'm trying to figure it out.
[08:17.640 --> 08:21.760]  I understand I almost have enough points to go to a gym and I don't know what happens when I do that.
[08:22.460 --> 08:31.120]  But, you know, actually there is an interesting story that I saw about a place in South Korea, a place called Sokcho.
[08:34.400 --> 08:36.200]  A place called Sokcho, everything okay, Reggie?
[08:36.880 --> 08:40.900]  Okay, well, you know, we can hear everything in the hallway as, as you guys are rampaging out there.
[08:41.120 --> 08:41.820]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[08:42.020 --> 08:42.360]  All right.
[08:44.480 --> 08:50.220]  So this place in, in South Korea called Sokcho, it's, it's about two hours by bus away from Seoul.
[08:50.220 --> 08:54.900]  Um, and, um, you can, uh, basically, uh, go there.
[08:55.220 --> 09:00.060]  Uh, it's the only place in South Korea where Pokemon Go works.
[09:00.520 --> 09:01.040]  Why?
[09:01.280 --> 09:05.360]  Well, Pokemon Go isn't available in South Korea because the game uses data from Google Maps.
[09:05.640 --> 09:09.260]  And that's restricted by the South Korean government due to security concerns.
[09:09.440 --> 09:12.440]  South Korea is still technically at war with North Korea.
[09:12.440 --> 09:20.020]  And the government has stated that, uh, it could release its map data only if Google deletes information on key security locations like military facilities.
[09:20.240 --> 09:23.120]  Uh, and it's unclear whether the game will ever be made available.
[09:23.260 --> 09:26.340]  But in the meanwhile, South Korean gamers have found a loophole.
[09:27.020 --> 09:34.900]  Um, basically, uh, uh, Sokcho just barely makes it out of, um, of, of restricted areas.
[09:35.500 --> 09:38.960]  And, uh, since word got out, it was possible to play Pokemon Go in Sokcho.
[09:39.240 --> 09:41.880]  Uh, the town has been bombarded with tourists looking to play.
[09:41.880 --> 09:44.500]  Bus tickets from Seoul to Sokcho are sold out.
[09:44.720 --> 09:49.780]  Uh, tour packages, including shuttle buses, hotel reservations have been popping up on deal websites.
[09:50.080 --> 10:00.060]  Uh, and Sokcho Mayor Lee Bang Sung has fully embraced the Pokemon Go craze, announcing he would increase free, uh, free Wi-Fi hotspots and battery charging stations.
[10:00.640 --> 10:03.740]  Uh, there are maps in this article about places you can go.
[10:03.980 --> 10:06.120]  Uh, it's, it's just insane.
[10:06.260 --> 10:07.080]  Where is this going to end?
[10:07.200 --> 10:08.100]  How is this going to end?
[10:08.180 --> 10:11.780]  It's just, you know, I don't, I don't see a graceful way.
[10:11.780 --> 10:13.320]  That this, this is going to stop.
[10:13.440 --> 10:21.280]  We, we pass through towns where people seem to be walking in trances with phones in front of their, their, their faces, uh, catching these things.
[10:21.500 --> 10:28.620]  Now, apparently if you're a sex offender, you're not allowed to play the game in, uh, in New York state, which I don't understand at all.
[10:28.620 --> 10:41.560]  Because first of all, the game isn't what would allow you to, uh, uh, to, um, uh, victimize, uh, uh, people if you're a sex offender, it's the crowds of people that you could victimize that are just congregating everywhere.
[10:41.740 --> 10:47.000]  So you don't need the app to, uh, are they going to just say you have to avoid places where people are playing this game?
[10:47.500 --> 10:50.420]  It's, uh, it's madness and it's continuing.
[10:50.780 --> 10:51.900]  This, this is great though.
[10:52.040 --> 10:53.800]  I think, I think we've really stumbled on something.
[10:54.260 --> 10:57.860]  Um, because I mean, wouldn't it, uh, why don't I hear you anymore?
[10:58.080 --> 10:59.200]  Do I, do I hear me?
[10:59.500 --> 11:00.960]  You, you, you were, you were there before.
[11:01.180 --> 11:02.120]  Kyle, did you do something?
[11:02.380 --> 11:02.700]  Oh, okay.
[11:02.780 --> 11:03.100]  There I am.
[11:03.580 --> 11:03.940]  Okay.
[11:04.120 --> 11:06.420]  Uh, so I think, I think we've really stumbled on something here.
[11:06.580 --> 11:16.480]  I mean, wouldn't it be great if there were only certain places in the real world in this country that people could play this game and they would have to go there to do it rather than hanging out on all our sidewalks and getting in our ways?
[11:16.480 --> 11:22.380]  Well, there are some places, um, that, um, that there are no, no Pokemon to catch apparently.
[11:22.720 --> 11:27.740]  Uh, and, uh, some towns are, are feeling the effects because people are flocking to the places where they do exist.
[11:27.940 --> 11:42.340]  So, um, the, the, um, the prediction, the theory is that at some point they will start charging, uh, businesses in certain places to have, uh, say a, a Pokemon stop or whatever they call it, uh, in front of their establishment.
[11:42.900 --> 11:47.520]  So that lures people in and they, they spend money, whereas other places will get nothing.
[11:47.720 --> 11:59.620]  It looks like something like that was, uh, in the, in the cards from the beginning because, uh, someone I think early on had decompiled the game software and found hidden in it, the icon, um, the logo of, uh, a certain fast food restaurant.
[12:00.200 --> 12:13.320]  Um, and so of course nothing has been, uh, I think nothing has been publicly done with this yet, but it's there in the game code to, um, ostens, I, I guess, I guess, uh, one can assume that it'll be used for some sort of, uh, co-promotion thing in the future.
[12:13.940 --> 12:14.200]  Interesting.
[12:14.340 --> 12:16.980]  Well, anyway, that's what's going on with, uh, with, with that nonsense.
[12:17.240 --> 12:19.860]  It's, it's weird because I call it nonsense, but it's fascinating.
[12:20.100 --> 12:27.780]  I, I love studying and seeing just how we can be manipulated and, and, um, uh, made to do things that we ordinarily would not do.
[12:28.160 --> 12:30.060]  Um, so where's it going to go?
[12:30.120 --> 12:30.360]  I don't know.
[12:30.440 --> 12:30.740]  Yes, Bernie.
[12:31.680 --> 12:37.000]  Um, maybe more significantly, uh, we have politicians getting involved in this.
[12:37.000 --> 12:56.700]  So I think, uh, uh, uh, governor Cuomo or some high ranking, uh, New York politician recently, uh, called for, uh, uh, banning this Pokemon game from anyone who is on Megan's list, a so-called sex offender, which had a broad description of people.
[12:56.800 --> 12:58.640]  Bernie, are you tuned into this, this show?
[12:58.780 --> 13:00.280]  Because I just, I just mentioned that.
[13:00.940 --> 13:01.740]  That very...
[13:01.740 --> 13:17.320]  What I'm saying is, you're, you're fuzzy on the air, but what I'm, what I'm saying is, what new technologies are we all going to be prevented from using, uh, by politicians to say, oh, this class of people shouldn't be able to use this technology, or these,
[13:17.420 --> 13:19.840]  this class of people shouldn't be able to use that technology.
[13:20.360 --> 13:34.300]  Um, when we start depending on technologies and then politicians can literally pass, have laws passed preventing entire classes of people from using certain technologies, I think that's a really dangerous, uh, direction we're taking.
[13:34.300 --> 13:36.780]  Well, I know Donald Trump wants to keep Muslims from playing.
[13:37.780 --> 13:39.580]  Well, why not start that rumor?
[13:39.680 --> 13:41.220]  It's no worse than anything he's actually said.
[13:42.260 --> 13:50.540]  So, yeah, we'll see what other... You know, I think Pokemon Go could be used to influence the election somehow.
[13:50.540 --> 13:52.320]  I just haven't quite figured out how yet.
[13:53.500 --> 13:56.140]  Okay, we are doing a two-hour program tonight.
[13:56.940 --> 13:58.180]  And why are we doing a two-hour program?
[13:58.280 --> 13:59.900]  It's interesting how this came about.
[14:00.860 --> 14:03.420]  As you might know, we're in the midst of a fundraiser here.
[14:03.700 --> 14:07.600]  In fact, you should just assume all the time that we're in the midst of a fundraiser at this station.
[14:08.700 --> 14:16.260]  And a memo went out saying that those of you who have not registered premiums will basically not be on the air.
[14:16.480 --> 14:28.340]  Basically, people don't pull in the listeners, don't pull in the phone calls, or I don't want to say being punished, but just programming is being affected by people that haven't registered premiums.
[14:28.480 --> 14:29.080]  Here's the thing.
[14:29.220 --> 14:34.340]  We have not registered premiums because we're not giving out any more premiums until our old premiums are dealt with.
[14:34.420 --> 14:35.880]  We've delivered everything to the station.
[14:36.500 --> 14:40.700]  And we still are getting complaints from our listeners, and that makes us very unhappy to see.
[14:41.380 --> 14:45.960]  So we want to make sure that you get what you pledged for in the past.
[14:46.780 --> 14:55.980]  And until that happens, until that... you know, everything has been delivered that we have been told has been pledged for.
[14:56.960 --> 14:58.600]  It's a simple thing of sending it out.
[14:58.740 --> 15:10.380]  When that happens, we're happy to have more people donate various premiums, whether they're books or DVDs or all sorts of other creative, imaginative things that our community comes up with.
[15:11.600 --> 15:14.880]  Until then, you know, we're not saying don't call in and pledge.
[15:15.100 --> 15:27.140]  Absolutely, you should do that because the station needs to stay on the air, but we don't want to add to a list of unhappy people that are never going to call again because they didn't get what they pledged for in the first place.
[15:27.140 --> 15:46.460]  If the radio station itself is important to you, and I think it should be, just calling 516-620-3602 and pledging whatever you can afford, or maybe getting a BAI generic premium or whatever else is suggested for what you're planning on pledging, do that.
[15:46.580 --> 15:47.580]  That's fine.
[15:47.580 --> 15:54.100]  But we don't want to add any more to the list of unhappy people, and we hope that this is taken care of.
[15:54.180 --> 16:01.180]  We've been doing everything in our power to have this done, have this handled in one way or another.
[16:01.860 --> 16:09.380]  It's just, it's incredible how things get backed up, and there's fingers pointing to other people saying, it's not my job, it's their job.
[16:09.680 --> 16:10.500]  You know, we don't care.
[16:10.500 --> 16:12.980]  We just want to have the things sent to our listeners.
[16:12.980 --> 16:24.300]  If you have not gotten a premium for any fundraiser in the last year and a half, that's how bad it is, we want you to email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[16:24.400 --> 16:33.980]  When we stop getting those emails, then we will register more premiums, and we'll be able to start the cycle again, hopefully not the unpleasant cycle.
[16:35.600 --> 16:38.760]  We are one of the shows that brings in a lot to the radio station.
[16:38.880 --> 16:44.680]  We brought in tremendous amounts in the past, and I imagine we'll still bring in something even without having premiums.
[16:44.760 --> 16:47.340]  I hope we do, because it's not about the premiums, it's about the station.
[16:47.800 --> 16:50.880]  So do give a call, 516-620-3602.
[16:50.940 --> 16:53.580]  We're on for two hours tonight, and hopefully we'll bring something in.
[16:53.680 --> 16:59.960]  And if we don't, it's, you know, it's unfortunate, but kind of understandable, I suppose.
[17:00.140 --> 17:05.600]  But please, we're asking that you call that number, 516-620-3602.
[17:05.660 --> 17:07.660]  I know, Bernie, you probably have something to add to that.
[17:08.900 --> 17:25.540]  Yeah, I mean, it's disappointing that a lot of people have stopped pledging their support to WBAI, but just because they're a little behind on premiums that we've delivered to them for quite a while, doesn't mean the project itself, WBAI, is not worth supporting.
[17:26.220 --> 17:31.520]  We've seen some emails lately that indicate that this station is really on the ropes.
[17:31.980 --> 17:36.280]  And I know people have said that in the past years, that, oh, pledge, or we're going to go off the air.
[17:36.280 --> 17:38.460]  This is really serious.
[17:39.540 --> 17:40.600]  If people don't...
[17:40.600 --> 17:41.640]  I'm going to say this.
[17:41.700 --> 17:42.280]  It's not a threat.
[17:42.400 --> 17:49.500]  If people don't pledge enough money to support this station, it's not going to be what it is anymore.
[17:49.620 --> 17:53.160]  The call letters might be the same, but it might be different people running it with different programs.
[17:53.380 --> 17:55.440]  That won't be anything like what you're hearing now.
[17:55.620 --> 17:57.540]  We don't even know if off the hook would still be on there.
[17:57.660 --> 17:58.500]  So it's really important.
[17:59.080 --> 18:02.720]  I don't remember the new phone number, because WBAI keeps changing it.
[18:02.720 --> 18:05.660]  But if you could say that again, Emmanuel, maybe somebody can pledge.
[18:05.820 --> 18:14.640]  And just even if it's $5, $10, whatever it's numbers that help as well, please call and support this station, because it's on the ropes, frankly.
[18:14.940 --> 18:15.640]  Yeah, it is.
[18:15.760 --> 18:19.160]  The number, by the way, is 516-620-3602.
[18:19.160 --> 18:25.420]  And, you know, we've seen changes that are negative and kind of depressing.
[18:25.600 --> 18:32.580]  It used to be, you know, we had these big spacious studios on Wall Street, and we had a room full of volunteers that would take phone calls.
[18:33.160 --> 18:35.020]  We don't have the room of volunteers anymore.
[18:35.020 --> 18:36.180]  It goes to a call center now.
[18:36.320 --> 18:38.500]  We don't have the offices on Wall Street anymore.
[18:38.580 --> 18:40.280]  We're in Brooklyn, which is great.
[18:40.460 --> 18:43.800]  You know, this is a great space, but it's not a radio studio.
[18:43.940 --> 18:44.500]  Not yet, anyway.
[18:44.500 --> 18:46.940]  It's a room where we hear people walking around and talking.
[18:46.940 --> 18:49.180]  I can hear conversations going on all over the place right now.
[18:49.880 --> 18:54.760]  And now we don't even have phone lines, because the phone bill hasn't been paid.
[18:55.000 --> 18:55.860]  You know, it's just...
[18:55.860 --> 18:57.560]  It's one thing after another.
[18:57.800 --> 19:03.000]  We're spending much less, because we don't have the amount of employees we used to have.
[19:03.100 --> 19:03.940]  Everyone was laid off.
[19:04.020 --> 19:05.800]  We don't have the massive studios anymore.
[19:06.500 --> 19:07.940]  A lot of money being saved there.
[19:08.240 --> 19:15.060]  But with all the money we save, we seem to be incurring even more debts, and more things are being eliminated.
[19:15.300 --> 19:16.560]  And that's really unpleasant.
[19:16.560 --> 19:18.900]  So a big influx of cash, I guess, would help.
[19:19.160 --> 19:20.180]  I'd like to think that.
[19:20.920 --> 19:22.640]  516-620-3602.
[19:22.780 --> 19:23.960]  And of course, we are hackers.
[19:24.200 --> 19:31.580]  So the fact that we don't have phone lines does not mean that we don't have phones, because we're going to make it work.
[19:31.680 --> 19:32.820]  We're going to make it work tonight.
[19:33.320 --> 19:39.180]  And we want to hear that people are pledging to support our efforts, because we intend to stay in touch with our listeners.
[19:39.320 --> 19:50.900]  So we will be taking phone calls for people that want to talk about the station, or that people want to talk about what we just went through in the last week or so, and that is our 11th HOPE conference.
[19:51.540 --> 19:54.080]  More on that in just a couple of moments.
[19:54.460 --> 20:01.000]  And it should be noted, if you do get in touch with us about a premium you haven't received, if you could forward us your receipt, that would be great.
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[20:48.000 --> 20:49.500]  And we've always needed your help.
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[21:00.780 --> 21:06.680]  And if you get in touch with us, that is what needs to happen to solve any of this.
[21:07.100 --> 21:14.400]  Yeah, another issue that seems to come up, which is really annoying to us, is that we get an amazing premium.
[21:14.600 --> 21:16.160]  We have, say, maybe 10 of the things.
[21:17.680 --> 21:25.500]  And basically somebody at our website or in management someplace decides that the station's always going to have it.
[21:25.500 --> 21:31.780]  So there was a recent instance where we had 10 of an item and the station told us we need 34 of them.
[21:32.760 --> 21:43.080]  So we have to scramble and spend the money to make additional or get additional copies of whatever it is we were offering.
[21:43.720 --> 21:47.860]  We try to make it so that, you know, it's clear what we have, what we can offer.
[21:47.860 --> 21:53.980]  But sometimes it just gets, it gets pushed a little bit too far and we get very impatient with that as well.
[21:54.060 --> 21:58.420]  Or we wind up having things that are competing with things that we sell ourselves.
[21:59.020 --> 22:16.940]  You know, if we're offering, say, a full collection of DVDs for half the price we usually offer them, and then that stays on the website of WBAI, kind of hurts us because then we can't offer it for anything because, you know, the radio station's undercutting us because we were nice enough to give them full sets.
[22:17.120 --> 22:19.540]  It's a ridiculous problem that we have.
[22:20.100 --> 22:24.060]  But it's one of many and many people are having these issues.
[22:24.360 --> 22:32.380]  And I guess something that would really solve this problem is to have a whole lot of organized people come and sort of take this place over and run it right.
[22:32.860 --> 22:34.540]  You know, there's not enough of that going on.
[22:34.640 --> 22:40.020]  We are short-staffed constantly because of the volunteer nature of the place.
[22:40.160 --> 22:42.580]  But that's how we've been since 1960.
[22:43.360 --> 22:47.440]  And I'd hate to see it fall apart due to things like this.
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[22:48.960 --> 22:50.960]  516-620-3602.
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[23:05.620 --> 23:07.640]  You know, call to keep the radio station on the air.
[23:08.360 --> 23:10.980]  516-620-3602.
[23:11.180 --> 23:13.440]  Okay, we just had a conference.
[23:13.580 --> 23:15.040]  Well, actually, we were preempted last week.
[23:15.620 --> 23:19.640]  But we had a conference the weekend before that called The 11th Hope.
[23:20.480 --> 23:21.680]  And what do you guys think?
[23:22.280 --> 23:25.820]  Well, we just started mentioning that right before you guys turned up.
[23:25.940 --> 23:27.460]  And we started going into it a little bit.
[23:27.560 --> 23:32.120]  But yeah, as I said, and I say this every time, but it's true.
[23:32.160 --> 23:33.360]  I think it was our best yet.
[23:33.540 --> 23:35.120]  I think we get better at this every time.
[23:35.120 --> 23:37.460]  I think we try new and more wonderful things every time.
[23:37.480 --> 23:44.060]  I think we get, you know, even more enthusiastic people behind the scenes, in front of the scenes, presenting, attending, sharing things there.
[23:44.400 --> 23:46.960]  I just think it just keeps getting better and better and better.
[23:49.620 --> 23:52.200]  No one has anything else to add to that while I reach for my bag?
[23:53.340 --> 23:54.160]  I'll say that.
[23:54.260 --> 23:55.940]  And it's not just my opinion.
[23:57.020 --> 23:58.780]  I met a lot of people at Hope.
[23:59.000 --> 24:00.240]  A lot of them were first-timers.
[24:00.380 --> 24:06.880]  But the people who have been there many years in the past have said that they thought this was the best hope ever.
[24:07.360 --> 24:10.220]  This is the 11th one in 22 years.
[24:10.900 --> 24:12.120]  And I'm surprised.
[24:12.280 --> 24:15.840]  Emmanuel, at the closing ceremonies, you asked people to raise their hand, everybody who was at the first hope.
[24:16.040 --> 24:17.900]  There was only a handful of people there.
[24:18.160 --> 24:20.260]  I mean, I don't even think you saw my hand.
[24:20.400 --> 24:25.340]  But a lot of people jumped on board after 1994.
[24:25.480 --> 24:26.960]  I think wood started spreading.
[24:26.960 --> 24:41.860]  And we put 150 speakers in a building to talk about fascinating topics over three days and give room for other people to speak to, whether it's in a fourth track or Hackers Got Talent or whatever.
[24:42.040 --> 24:47.820]  It's just an incredible volume of information that has been so enriching.
[24:47.940 --> 24:50.960]  And it's new information every time we do this.
[24:51.120 --> 24:53.520]  And it's such a variety of topics.
[24:53.520 --> 24:59.800]  I think we've kind of spread out a little bit more from traditional hacking topics this year.
[25:00.140 --> 25:07.200]  Everything from how to build your own house from a shipping container to how to manufacture your own pharmaceutical drugs with a 3D printer.
[25:07.380 --> 25:12.320]  I mean, we really push the envelope and I like that about hope that it keeps pushing the envelope.
[25:12.800 --> 25:15.680]  Yeah, definitely has been pushing the envelope.
[25:15.920 --> 25:22.500]  And I think more people got to experience it this year than ever before.
[25:23.520 --> 25:29.220]  And a lot of that is because we were able to stream the entire conference, all three tracks, worldwide.
[25:29.640 --> 25:32.860]  And, Kyle, I know you played a big hand in getting that to happen.
[25:33.220 --> 25:38.920]  We had a 10 gigabit network, which is more than any other hacker conference in this country for sure.
[25:38.920 --> 25:40.740]  And it rivals the European ones.
[25:42.100 --> 25:50.040]  And while we didn't use all the bandwidth, which I guess is a good thing, it certainly came in handy for allowing more people to participate.
[25:50.740 --> 25:55.940]  We had to cut it off at a certain point because, you know, after a while, it gets too crowded.
[25:55.980 --> 25:57.180]  You don't want it to be like that.
[25:57.260 --> 25:59.200]  You want people to get into the things they want to get into.
[25:59.560 --> 26:01.780]  And obviously, you can't get into everything you want to get into.
[26:01.880 --> 26:02.920]  It just doesn't work that way.
[26:03.440 --> 26:09.120]  But I think we did a better job on that this year than we did for Hope X in 2014.
[26:12.040 --> 26:14.960]  But what's involved in putting a network like that together?
[26:16.280 --> 26:17.100]  Oh, wow.
[26:17.220 --> 26:18.300]  Yeah, that helped a lot.
[26:18.940 --> 26:22.600]  I would say a lot of communication and planning.
[26:23.620 --> 26:26.160]  But I don't know.
[26:26.380 --> 26:27.240]  It was fun.
[26:27.680 --> 26:34.500]  Like last night, I talked to someone who had basically been away from the conference, didn't go, wasn't physically there and was able to watch stuff.
[26:34.860 --> 26:38.620]  And they were remarking at how convenient that had been.
[26:38.800 --> 26:49.920]  They were in the comfort of their home, able to participate and be a part of it, albeit remotely, but experienced the same amount of talks.
[26:50.000 --> 26:55.740]  And I looked at them and said, so, wow, you have like all this information because I can appreciate it.
[26:55.820 --> 26:57.120]  I haven't caught up.
[26:57.220 --> 27:02.900]  I have a lot of talks maybe I should listen to and so on to catch up.
[27:03.040 --> 27:12.800]  But just going through this program and realizing how many different subject matter and issues are covered, it really is eye-opening.
[27:12.820 --> 27:16.640]  and shows all the work the speaker committee and everybody else puts into it.
[27:16.780 --> 27:25.600]  But, yeah, I mean, that goes right down to network crew and, boy, we have a good, strong group and many more volunteers.
[27:25.940 --> 27:37.540]  And we're building some pretty interesting relationships, good relationships as hackers with entities, organizations, people that want to support a free and open internet.
[27:37.540 --> 27:59.600]  I think that was represented with our vendors and some of the other organizations that are involved with hope and that symbiosis, all of those things being sort of related and something that are conducive and support one another.
[27:59.820 --> 28:02.960]  They perpetuate that same spirit.
[28:03.200 --> 28:07.980]  And as we bring in more people, that just expands the capabilities that we're able to bring.
[28:07.980 --> 28:09.540]  And, you know, there's a lot of excitement.
[28:09.680 --> 28:11.060]  People are talking about 2018 now.
[28:11.280 --> 28:12.120]  Yes, already.
[28:12.440 --> 28:14.000]  Yeah, hard work is the short answer.
[28:14.280 --> 28:14.520]  Okay.
[28:14.800 --> 28:19.780]  And hard work is definitely the theme that spread throughout all different...
[28:19.780 --> 28:25.260]  You mentioned the speaker, the speaker committee and Bernie, Rob, we were all on that.
[28:25.260 --> 28:26.160]  And that was fun.
[28:26.320 --> 28:34.840]  That was a lot of fun to work, to see all the different submissions coming in and to try and fit as much as we could into the schedule.
[28:35.940 --> 28:39.800]  And I think the schedule was fairly well received.
[28:40.080 --> 28:40.340]  Yeah.
[28:40.780 --> 28:45.500]  I'm really proud of how that all turned out and just how it all went.
[28:45.580 --> 28:47.580]  And it's a great crew.
[28:48.240 --> 28:51.600]  And it really ended up just being something very special.
[28:51.800 --> 28:59.800]  And, again, I really have to put out there that it's not just us, you know, who you might call the staff members that are behind this.
[28:59.800 --> 29:02.080]  because it's a product of its community.
[29:02.080 --> 29:08.060]  It's a product of the people who volunteer and who submit their talks and their presentations and their workshops.
[29:08.440 --> 29:09.840]  And that really...
[29:09.840 --> 29:17.100]  I have never seen such a great concentration of awesome people presenting on fascinating stuff than I have at this conference.
[29:17.360 --> 29:21.820]  And behind the scenes, I get to see so much more of it that unfortunately didn't get into the program.
[29:22.000 --> 29:23.080]  Well, yes.
[29:23.400 --> 29:27.520]  And on the subject of seeing more, we are working on the videos.
[29:27.900 --> 29:29.320]  We have them all.
[29:29.320 --> 29:35.120]  We're processing them, trying to get them into as good a quality as possible.
[29:35.700 --> 29:47.620]  And they will be available in many different formats, DVDs and flash drives and online and various other ways of getting it out there.
[29:47.760 --> 29:48.780]  Audio, especially.
[29:49.200 --> 29:49.960]  Audio, too, yes.
[29:50.100 --> 29:59.740]  That was how I first got involved in realizing about what Hope was as far as this massive amount of information and discussion.
[30:00.560 --> 30:07.260]  But listening to some of those really helped make me feel like I was a part of it even though I'd never been before.
[30:07.860 --> 30:13.440]  So we'll have those up as soon as possible and let everyone know where they can go for that.
[30:13.540 --> 30:15.820]  And we're getting feedback from all over the place.
[30:15.920 --> 30:18.180]  Here's a letter we got from Tom.
[30:18.400 --> 30:20.860]  I've only physically been to One Hope, the very first one.
[30:21.260 --> 30:23.080]  Thank you for streaming the talks this year.
[30:23.180 --> 30:26.600]  They were great, informative, and helped ease the loss of not being there.
[30:26.600 --> 30:36.620]  And that's great to hear that people from around the world and we were getting reports, you know, after social engineering I was getting messages from people saying, hey, great talk.
[30:36.680 --> 30:37.300]  And they weren't there.
[30:37.380 --> 30:38.460]  They were nowhere near the place.
[30:38.580 --> 30:53.460]  And that's kind of cool because not only are you making things more pleasant for people far away, but you're also making things more pleasant for people who are nearby because it's not as crowded because of all these people that aren't there and who would be packing the place.
[30:53.460 --> 30:57.280]  On that note, next time we are planning on getting more space.
[30:57.480 --> 30:59.580]  There is more space in the hotel, if you can believe that.
[30:59.920 --> 31:03.700]  And we've tracked it down and we're going to try and make that work for next time.
[31:04.400 --> 31:07.760]  But we'll keep thinking creatively.
[31:08.680 --> 31:12.380]  On the subject of thinking creatively, there was talk of getting Mitch on Skype.
[31:12.640 --> 31:14.680]  Rob, do you know if that was able to work out?
[31:14.680 --> 31:18.160]  There was, but we have not yet, as yet, been able to start poking at that.
[31:18.360 --> 31:19.460]  Can you start poking at that then?
[31:19.600 --> 31:26.660]  Because Mitch is in Amsterdam, and Amsterdam is ahead of us time-wise, which means that he's probably nodding off about now.
[31:27.420 --> 31:31.180]  And if it's possible to get him on Skype, that would be truly awesome.
[31:31.460 --> 31:34.500]  While you're poking around, what do you need to do to poke around?
[31:34.520 --> 31:36.520]  If you could spin this stuff around and I can...
[31:36.520 --> 31:37.240]  Spin the computer around?
[31:37.560 --> 31:39.000]  I might break it, but I'll try.
[31:39.000 --> 31:44.280]  But also, we should mention that we might lose Bernie, because that's how we're getting him through the Skype.
[31:44.440 --> 31:45.980]  And we might not be able to do both of us.
[31:46.000 --> 31:47.480]  Life is full of risks.
[31:47.800 --> 31:49.360]  So, Bernie, if we lose you, we'll get you back.
[31:50.160 --> 31:50.940]  Well, that's fine.
[31:50.940 --> 31:52.380]  If you can't get me back, that's fine, too.
[31:52.480 --> 31:54.180]  Mitch needs some time on the air as well.
[31:54.420 --> 31:54.740]  Yes.
[31:54.900 --> 31:57.160]  Well, we'd like to go through as many people as possible.
[31:57.920 --> 32:03.180]  I'm not sure if other coordinators are out there, if they want to reach us in one way or another.
[32:03.380 --> 32:06.600]  You know of the ways to get to us, and we'll try and get back to you.
[32:07.220 --> 32:18.900]  But I want to introduce somebody who has been on the show before and has a special guest tonight, who organized something else that was really kind of cool at the Hope Conference, which I don't think ever took place before.
[32:20.320 --> 32:21.120]  Voltaire is here.
[32:21.340 --> 32:21.820]  Voltaire, welcome.
[32:22.060 --> 32:22.720]  Hey, how's it going?
[32:22.920 --> 32:23.780]  It's going well.
[32:23.880 --> 32:25.900]  We're tired, but we're recuperating.
[32:26.920 --> 32:38.020]  But now, you and a bunch of other people put together a series, I guess, of talks and gatherings called Queer as Hope.
[32:38.500 --> 32:39.040]  That's right.
[32:39.280 --> 32:40.880]  It was more a gathering.
[32:40.880 --> 32:42.040]  It was pretty informal.
[32:42.380 --> 32:44.680]  It was in the unscheduled track that we had.
[32:44.800 --> 32:46.080]  Yeah, I forget the name of the room.
[32:46.500 --> 32:47.860]  Well, we called it Hoover.
[32:48.520 --> 32:54.820]  It's usually called Madison in the hotel, but we named the rooms after various people, and that one we...
[32:54.820 --> 32:56.580]  Different vacuum cleaner types?
[32:56.800 --> 32:58.540]  No, it wasn't named after the vacuum cleaner.
[32:58.540 --> 33:04.800]  You know, we'll get into who it was named after, but I'd like for Voltaire to discuss what happened in that room.
[33:05.140 --> 33:18.480]  Yeah, so it's just an informal gathering for people of all sexualities and gender identities to meet and just get to socialize and meet new people at the conference.
[33:19.280 --> 33:22.260]  I thought Mitch would actually help, was involved as well.
[33:24.220 --> 33:29.860]  Other hacker conferences have had similar things, but this is the first year Hope had it.
[33:30.360 --> 33:44.120]  The feedback we got was people were really happy that there's something like this and that is welcoming for just acknowledgement of the queer community and a place to get to know one another.
[33:44.820 --> 33:48.040]  Yeah, and that's always been a part of our community.
[33:48.040 --> 34:00.500]  And I think the Hope crowd has always been very welcoming and open, and I see that reflected in our speaker submissions as well as in our audience.
[34:01.160 --> 34:10.160]  People are comfortable presenting at Hope and sharing, and they're welcomed as well by the people they're speaking to.
[34:10.300 --> 34:12.440]  I've always been very impressed by that.
[34:12.500 --> 34:15.520]  I'm not quite sure how that happened, how we got there.
[34:15.520 --> 34:23.800]  Maybe it just always was there, because I know there are negative examples in other places.
[34:24.800 --> 34:29.620]  But I think what we do, what we have done, has been mostly positive.
[34:29.740 --> 34:33.160]  And I know other conferences are doing good jobs with that as well.
[34:33.860 --> 34:35.640]  So I'm proud of the community overall.
[34:35.640 --> 34:36.300]  I really am.
[34:37.060 --> 34:37.700]  Yeah, same.
[34:37.980 --> 34:49.240]  Somebody, actually during it, was kind of upset, and they asked why has Hope been around for 20 years, and this is the first time there's been a queer event.
[34:49.660 --> 34:53.180]  And they said, oh, DEF CON has had a queer event for 15 years.
[34:53.300 --> 34:57.480]  And I said, well, basically, Hope has always been queer.
[34:57.480 --> 35:08.420]  Like, it's, in a sense, it's like the most, a lot of the, like, comparing Hope to European conferences, it's more, it's less technical.
[35:08.660 --> 35:13.220]  It's more, it's less of a quote-unquote infosec conference where it's just, like, apolitical.
[35:13.400 --> 35:18.760]  And it's more, like, socially minded and political.
[35:18.780 --> 35:20.900]  And I think that's what I like so much about Hope.
[35:21.260 --> 35:24.520]  And that's, it's closer to the European model.
[35:24.520 --> 35:31.860]  And, you know, hats off to you for organizing this, because, you know, in answer to that person, yeah, you know, it always was possible.
[35:32.360 --> 35:34.620]  All it takes is somebody to step up and do it.
[35:34.720 --> 35:36.860]  It's not like we're saying, no, we're not going to do that.
[35:37.400 --> 35:41.560]  It's just, we're doing an awful lot of things, and we need more ideas.
[35:41.700 --> 35:42.760]  We need more participation.
[35:43.000 --> 35:49.440]  So the second somebody says, I'm interested in doing this, we're all over it and in support of it.
[35:50.040 --> 35:58.460]  And I think that's the case of so many projects that we've been involved in with the Hope Conference and so many more that we will be involved in.
[35:58.640 --> 36:02.140]  So, yeah, I hope it's just the start.
[36:02.620 --> 36:06.220]  So it sounds like there was a fair amount of people there.
[36:07.200 --> 36:09.380]  And so there are queer hackers.
[36:10.740 --> 36:12.420]  How else did, how did it go?
[36:12.520 --> 36:18.840]  What else did, what other kinds of things did you organize or were going on during this?
[36:19.420 --> 36:21.640]  Well, the first, we had about...
[36:21.640 --> 36:22.800]  How'd it go is what I'm asking.
[36:22.900 --> 36:24.100]  I think it went extremely well.
[36:24.460 --> 36:27.880]  The original plan was to have it just be the second night of Hope.
[36:28.020 --> 36:30.560]  And then T.
[36:30.660 --> 36:43.460]  Profit, who writes the Telecom Informer article, says that, recommended that we actually do it the first night because that way people would get to meet friends that they, and came with them throughout the conference.
[36:43.460 --> 36:45.800]  And I think that turned out actually successful.
[36:46.120 --> 36:47.340]  Yeah, starting early.
[36:47.620 --> 36:49.080]  The first night was kind of like...
[36:49.080 --> 36:52.760]  We had like group discussions and icebreakers.
[36:52.860 --> 36:55.000]  And the second night, it was much more informal.
[36:55.160 --> 36:56.120]  We played...
[36:56.120 --> 37:03.220]  It turned out there's a hacker version of Cards Against Humanity, which I was pleasantly surprised to learn about.
[37:03.460 --> 37:03.720]  Very cool.
[37:03.720 --> 37:04.100]  So we played that.
[37:04.220 --> 37:04.660]  It was a lot of fun.
[37:04.820 --> 37:06.600]  That sounds like a good time.
[37:07.380 --> 37:07.740]  Wow.
[37:08.760 --> 37:11.300]  Okay, so Rob, you're furiously typing on the keyboard.
[37:11.440 --> 37:12.160]  Any progress?
[37:12.700 --> 37:13.460]  Not as yet.
[37:13.620 --> 37:13.980]  Not as yet.
[37:14.100 --> 37:16.320]  Okay, well, we'll see if that works out.
[37:16.480 --> 37:19.420]  I'm going to read a little bit more feedback that we've been getting from people.
[37:19.920 --> 37:23.700]  The email address, feedback at hope.net, was given out at the closing ceremonies.
[37:23.700 --> 37:34.520]  And we've gotten pretty much a good collection of emails from people with critiques and compliments and criticisms, all sorts.
[37:35.420 --> 37:36.180]  Let's see.
[37:36.180 --> 37:39.540]  I'm writing to thank you all for holding such a fantastic conference.
[37:39.540 --> 37:41.720]  This is one of the compliments.
[37:42.240 --> 37:44.520]  The 11th Hope was my first ever con.
[37:44.720 --> 37:46.820]  It made a significant difference in my life.
[37:46.940 --> 37:58.240]  I rediscovered 2600 about two years ago after a 15-year absence since college, where I first discovered 2600 from the recording where you social engineered the Kmart intercom at Beyond Hope.
[37:58.520 --> 37:59.680]  Oh, I remember that well.
[38:00.260 --> 38:05.580]  I suffer from social anxiety that prevents me from speaking with strangers when I'm not with a group of people I know.
[38:05.740 --> 38:12.840]  Although I wasn't able to talk to any other attendees, being at an event with so many other like-minded people makes me feel less alone.
[38:13.100 --> 38:15.140]  Perhaps in two years I'll be able to speak with some of you.
[38:15.440 --> 38:16.080]  Thank you all.
[38:16.220 --> 38:17.580]  It was a fantastic experience.
[38:17.940 --> 38:19.420]  Signed, Mike from New Jersey.
[38:19.580 --> 38:28.020]  And Mike, that kind of letter really means something to us because knowing that we're reaching people in whatever way we can, that's what it's all about.
[38:28.220 --> 38:29.940]  That's what we want to be able to do.
[38:30.300 --> 38:34.700]  And seeing a letter like this tells me in this way we succeeded.
[38:34.960 --> 38:49.880]  And I think it speaks for the parallels and many other stories that are occurring that are probably quite similar that don't get told, that aren't put to words in quite that way.
[38:49.880 --> 39:05.700]  So yeah, I mean, we've got to appreciate that a lot of people, a lot of the other people, I mentioned this to a couple people who I knew or were at Hope for the first time, basically saying that, you know, we're all kind of new and a bit shy.
[39:06.700 --> 39:18.220]  And it's about meeting new people and putting yourself out there a little bit and trying to take advantage of opportunities to socialize and basically have some fun.
[39:18.220 --> 39:22.480]  And I think that's really important and something that is a good guide.
[39:23.020 --> 39:27.260]  Just make sure you're enjoying yourself and the people you're around.
[39:27.300 --> 39:30.000]  Yeah, opening yourself up to, you know, to other ideas.
[39:30.240 --> 39:34.160]  Just, you know, getting what you can out of the events.
[39:34.460 --> 39:36.800]  And I think so many people did that.
[39:37.140 --> 39:38.860]  So it's good to hear.
[39:40.080 --> 39:40.720]  Let's see.
[39:40.880 --> 39:42.380]  Dan asked, were any of the talks recorded?
[39:42.440 --> 39:44.500]  If so, when they post, I think we addressed that.
[39:44.500 --> 39:51.620]  And yes, they've all been recorded and they all will be made available in all sorts of different manners and formats.
[39:52.940 --> 39:57.000]  Max writes, this is my first time at Hope coming all the way from the Dominican Republic.
[39:57.600 --> 40:00.180]  The event was very interesting, very punctual and organized.
[40:00.180 --> 40:01.420]  Overall, I liked it a lot.
[40:01.620 --> 40:03.780]  I love that 10 gigabit internet connection.
[40:04.400 --> 40:05.360]  Some recommendations.
[40:06.100 --> 40:06.900]  Filled halls.
[40:07.100 --> 40:08.480]  I could not participate in various presentations.
[40:08.480 --> 40:09.780]  I think it was over capacity.
[40:09.780 --> 40:12.420]  Well, to address that, here's the thing.
[40:12.600 --> 40:30.420]  If a room holds 800 people and 800 people show up and you have, you know, 900 people attending the entire conference, it's as over capacity as if 3,000 people attend the conference because the room can only hold so many people.
[40:30.740 --> 40:37.000]  So we can't sell as many tickets as only fits in one room.
[40:37.000 --> 40:38.300]  We have a huge space.
[40:38.300 --> 40:41.740]  So if one room fills up, there's another room that has not filled up.
[40:41.900 --> 40:44.500]  There's another space that has all kinds of activities going on.
[40:45.240 --> 40:47.860]  So yeah, some talks are very popular.
[40:48.140 --> 40:49.580]  Some talks fill up very quickly.
[40:49.900 --> 40:51.080]  We do our best.
[40:51.160 --> 41:02.960]  And the streaming, the streaming, I think, really helps because if you can't get in, and there's guaranteed there's going to be things you cannot get into, you can use your phone or you can go to an overflow area and watch the talk there.
[41:03.520 --> 41:05.960]  It'll be available in some form.
[41:07.540 --> 41:08.820]  We try our best.
[41:08.960 --> 41:12.680]  Obviously, if the entire space is getting filled up, that's when you cut it off.
[41:12.840 --> 41:14.100]  That's when you say, okay, enough.
[41:15.220 --> 41:23.580]  But for people that try to get into a particular talk and there are more people there than can fit in, that's just how conferences work, unfortunately.
[41:23.820 --> 41:29.360]  There's not much we can do about that unless we really, really cut things down a lot.
[41:29.360 --> 41:36.760]  And then it'll just be a lot of empty spaces because everybody will get into that one talk and all the other talks will be sparse in comparison.
[41:38.120 --> 41:39.100]  What will we have, Rob?
[41:39.180 --> 41:42.160]  So we have to put Bernie on hold, but it looks like we've got Mitch on the line now.
[41:42.160 --> 41:42.540]  Do we have Mitch?
[41:42.740 --> 41:46.680]  Let me just finish this letter quickly from Max.
[41:46.880 --> 41:50.380]  It would be nice to have a coffee and snack bar maybe in the vendor area to avoid having to leave.
[41:50.580 --> 41:52.200]  You know, I know a lot of people didn't want to leave.
[41:52.360 --> 41:52.840]  I know that.
[41:52.880 --> 41:53.400]  That's a problem.
[41:53.820 --> 41:56.660]  We had to physically move some people out on Monday.
[41:56.660 --> 41:57.760]  They just would not leave.
[41:57.760 --> 42:01.260]  Look, conference is over, go home, see you in two years.
[42:02.420 --> 42:04.080]  It's good to go outside occasionally.
[42:04.080 --> 42:05.240]  There's a lot going on.
[42:05.380 --> 42:09.420]  It's New York City, you know, whether you get a slice of pizza or coffee someplace.
[42:09.900 --> 42:11.880]  And, you know, we had the mate, for God's sake.
[42:11.980 --> 42:13.880]  We had that in the vendor area.
[42:14.040 --> 42:17.480]  That's, you know, it's not coffee, but it'll hype you up a little bit.
[42:18.880 --> 42:20.480]  You know, it's something to consider.
[42:20.480 --> 42:38.700]  But with the prevalence of options within a few feet of the hotel, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to spend the fortune to have somebody cater and have a coffee and snack bar there, you know, when they probably won't do so well because there's so many other options very close by.
[42:38.700 --> 42:48.340]  It doesn't mean we can't experiment with that space and go completely crazy with amenities and fun things there.
[42:48.520 --> 42:49.300]  Haven't we done that?
[42:49.700 --> 42:51.700]  You don't think that's completely crazy what we just did?
[42:51.780 --> 42:54.080]  I think what we just did was completely crazy.
[42:54.300 --> 43:00.900]  And, but we can always add and take experiences we've had elsewhere and apply those things.
[43:00.900 --> 43:06.940]  That's how a lot of the cool things that happened this time, how that's how hammocks and segways and all these other things came about.
[43:07.140 --> 43:07.780]  Yes, hammocks.
[43:07.960 --> 43:10.300]  We did have people using hammocks at this event.
[43:10.300 --> 43:13.600]  But my point is there's all kinds of things we could do.
[43:13.680 --> 43:15.740]  We could have an area where you don't have to wear shoes.
[43:16.500 --> 43:17.980]  Uh, that's, that's, uh...
[43:17.980 --> 43:18.880]  Is that a good idea?
[43:19.080 --> 43:24.280]  I think, yeah, I mean, you want to consider hygiene a little bit in your audience.
[43:24.380 --> 43:24.760]  I don't know.
[43:24.880 --> 43:26.060]  Okay, you know, we're open to anything.
[43:26.380 --> 43:29.220]  I mean, I think Metamante was a little bit like that.
[43:29.220 --> 43:30.380]  A little bit sort of...
[43:30.380 --> 43:31.500]  I never got to visit those people.
[43:31.500 --> 43:32.320]  I went over there once.
[43:32.420 --> 43:33.720]  I dragged a hammock over there.
[43:33.980 --> 43:36.040]  Okay, and, and can you tell us what that was about?
[43:36.180 --> 43:38.060]  These were alternate Metamante people.
[43:38.200 --> 43:40.740]  Yeah, it was, it was, well, it was supposed...
[43:40.740 --> 43:44.080]  Well, I think there was a couple groups that were doing that.
[43:44.180 --> 44:04.460]  But the area that we, we designated for Metamante was kind of modeled on the, um, the Metamante, um, like sort of space that we had seen at, at Congress and other places where people were making their own, basically a tea area where you could discuss things with people.
[44:04.620 --> 44:11.260]  We basically tried that here, but it was sort of not as, not as popular because I don't think people got it.
[44:11.380 --> 44:16.900]  And you really need a threshold of people to keep actually brewing tea and keep the discussion going.
[44:17.240 --> 44:18.520]  But we learned from it.
[44:18.640 --> 44:25.260]  And of course we could add to it or, or modify it, as I said, and use the space in all kinds of other ways.
[44:25.260 --> 44:32.300]  All right, and Max concludes, I think it would be interesting to have tracks such as a social engineering track, freedom track, physical security track, et cetera.
[44:32.700 --> 44:39.940]  You know, Max, we've, we've, uh, we've thought of things like that, having, uh, themes, uh, in, in our schedule.
[44:40.260 --> 44:42.840]  Um, and we might still do something like that.
[44:42.940 --> 44:47.880]  The reason we haven't up till now is because we want people to be able to experience as much as possible.
[44:47.960 --> 45:02.840]  If we have all the talks related to a particular subject on one day or, uh, in just one room, it kind of, uh, means that if you're not there on that day, or if you have something that you want to see in a different room, um, you're going to miss out either way,
[45:02.940 --> 45:04.100]  you're going to miss out, obviously.
[45:04.500 --> 45:09.060]  Um, but we like to, we like to mix it up kind of like what we do here at the radio station.
[45:09.120 --> 45:23.080]  We like to have a talk about security and then a talk about social engineering and then a talk about, uh, um, old time computers so that you might be exposed to something that That you normally would not have even walked into the room to see.
[45:24.080 --> 45:31.880]  That's what I think is part of the magic of hope, is being able to just open up your mind to all different things you didn't know you were interested in until you happened to see it.
[45:32.280 --> 45:33.900]  So that's been the thinking so far.
[45:34.000 --> 45:35.960]  It's not to say we won't try something else, though.
[45:36.880 --> 45:39.540]  And with that, we have Mitch.
[45:39.540 --> 45:40.500]  He's going to come up on this channel.
[45:40.620 --> 45:41.160]  Mitch, are you there?
[45:42.060 --> 45:42.780]  I'm here.
[45:43.140 --> 45:45.260]  I hear him, but he sounds like he's off mic.
[45:46.480 --> 45:46.880]  Mitch?
[45:48.360 --> 45:49.200]  Is this one better?
[45:49.200 --> 45:49.940]  That's better, yes.
[45:49.940 --> 45:50.680]  That one works.
[45:51.580 --> 45:51.980]  Okay.
[45:52.620 --> 45:54.360]  So, yeah, I'm in Amsterdam.
[45:55.060 --> 45:58.660]  You're echoing a bit, so maybe you could turn down whatever monitor you have over there.
[45:59.920 --> 46:03.000]  And then we should be able to hear you without the echo.
[46:03.280 --> 46:04.200]  We're twiddling some knobs.
[46:04.340 --> 46:05.240]  Yeah, twiddle those knobs.
[46:05.820 --> 46:06.320]  It's amazing.
[46:06.440 --> 46:08.180]  We have to troubleshoot two studios now.
[46:08.900 --> 46:10.300]  So you're over there in Amsterdam.
[46:10.680 --> 46:12.620]  Yeah, you can't keep it at 11.
[46:13.040 --> 46:13.360]  No.
[46:13.900 --> 46:15.760]  You can turn it up to 11.
[46:15.960 --> 46:16.660]  You can't stop.
[46:16.880 --> 46:17.240]  Okay.
[46:17.420 --> 46:18.620]  The magic of Skype here.
[46:19.300 --> 46:19.820]  Okay.
[46:22.180 --> 46:23.600]  So, that wasn't me.
[46:23.920 --> 46:26.600]  So, tell us something about your hope experience.
[46:28.240 --> 46:31.200]  It was definitely the best hope experience for me, too.
[46:31.320 --> 46:33.860]  And I've been going since hope number six in 2006.
[46:34.240 --> 46:36.220]  It just keeps getting better every time.
[46:36.220 --> 46:38.680]  And I was...
[46:38.680 --> 46:42.740]  And I am distracted by the echo, sorry.
[46:42.940 --> 46:48.160]  But I put a lot of energy into helping do workshops this time.
[46:48.540 --> 47:03.120]  And I thought it was really good in getting a wide variety of workshops to happen, including a focus on biohacking and getting a bunch of people to submit talks on biohacking, since that's up and coming in the hacker world so much.
[47:03.120 --> 47:04.660]  And I think that was pretty successful.
[47:04.960 --> 47:09.460]  And a lot of those were really popular talks, which I'm happy about.
[47:11.080 --> 47:11.480]  Yeah.
[47:11.660 --> 47:12.200]  Well, I'm happy.
[47:12.420 --> 47:14.840]  It's like speaking to somebody from space right now.
[47:16.540 --> 47:19.080]  Rob, do we have any idea how to make that echo go away?
[47:19.600 --> 47:22.160]  I think we might be picking them up from two places at once.
[47:22.420 --> 47:23.040]  Two places at once.
[47:23.600 --> 47:24.220]  Okay, yeah.
[47:24.840 --> 47:27.340]  If we can get that down to one place at once.
[47:27.680 --> 47:28.680]  Yeah, how do we do that?
[47:29.200 --> 47:30.660]  How are we in two places at once?
[47:30.820 --> 47:31.940]  Can you explain what's going on?
[47:32.220 --> 47:35.000]  Because right now I'm conferenced in is...
[47:35.640 --> 47:36.460]  Oh, let's see.
[47:36.560 --> 47:36.720]  Okay.
[47:36.900 --> 47:39.640]  I think we might be down to one.
[47:39.720 --> 47:40.320]  Mitch, are you still there?
[47:42.100 --> 47:42.460]  Mitch?
[47:43.820 --> 47:44.780]  There's one moment.
[47:44.780 --> 47:47.640]  Okay, they're organizing things over there in Amsterdam.
[47:48.820 --> 47:50.960]  You sound good, though, when we hear you.
[47:51.360 --> 47:52.240]  Oh, that's better.
[47:53.280 --> 47:54.600]  I hear another voice.
[47:55.060 --> 47:55.360]  All right.
[47:55.920 --> 47:58.440]  All kinds of technicians and people running around.
[47:58.580 --> 48:00.420]  Behind that other voice is another friend of ours.
[48:00.620 --> 48:05.900]  But once they get everything settled down on that end, I think we could introduce this person.
[48:06.160 --> 48:11.120]  Okay, the magic and marvel of technology on the live airwaves here at WBAI.
[48:11.220 --> 48:12.020]  Oh, Mitch is back.
[48:12.160 --> 48:12.840]  Go ahead.
[48:13.880 --> 48:19.760]  Okay, so, yeah, we had two Skypes going at once, which was confusing the internet.
[48:19.760 --> 48:21.200]  You can't do that.
[48:21.280 --> 48:21.740]  That's illegal.
[48:22.160 --> 48:23.520]  One Skype, one person.
[48:23.520 --> 48:24.180]  That's the rule.
[48:25.020 --> 48:25.400]  Yeah.
[48:27.560 --> 48:32.580]  So, anyways, now we can do it without the distractions of Echo, Echo, Echo, Echo.
[48:33.480 --> 48:33.860]  Yes.
[48:34.460 --> 48:34.720]  All right.
[48:35.660 --> 48:39.200]  So, yeah, I've been listening to the show up till now.
[48:39.200 --> 48:54.740]  And I also love that Hope is very diverse in its topics and the people who come and also very welcoming of totally new people, unlike some other conferences where you kind of have to prove yourself till you're cool.
[48:55.480 --> 49:04.220]  And Hope is just really welcoming, which is one of the reasons I started helping after my first Hope, which was, like I said, Hope number six in 2006.
[49:04.220 --> 49:17.540]  I just felt fantastic in a large group of people for the first time in my life, being an introverted geek, being in a room with thousands of other introverted geeks just felt like being in my tribe.
[49:17.540 --> 49:21.880]  And, wow, it just makes me emotional even thinking about it now still.
[49:22.320 --> 49:27.500]  And I had so many people tell me that, not only at this Hope, but at other Hopes.
[49:27.560 --> 49:37.440]  But it seemed to be more this time, many more new people who'd never been to a Hope, as well as all these people, like Bernie was saying, who've been to everyone since the beginning.
[49:39.180 --> 49:41.660]  And, you know, just that welcoming feel.
[49:41.920 --> 49:51.100]  It's, you know, we all need community in our life, and Hope really provides a fantastic community for a lot of people, and I'm really glad to be able to help with it.
[49:51.540 --> 50:01.180]  I feel the same way a lot, and it's kind of, it's frustrating because there are so many people that I want to see when they come to New York for Hope.
[50:01.820 --> 50:07.720]  But when they're there, I'm so busy, and I don't have time to hang out and do the fun things.
[50:07.860 --> 50:11.320]  And then it's over, and I have time, and everybody's gone home.
[50:12.160 --> 50:13.620]  So it's the price.
[50:13.620 --> 50:16.780]  It's a sacrifice I make because I want to do this.
[50:16.780 --> 50:22.260]  I want to have this amazing time and be able to share it and have lots of people remember it.
[50:22.300 --> 50:32.080]  But, boy, I wish there was just a couple more days where people would hang out where there wasn't a conference so that we could just, you know, have good conversations and catch up.
[50:32.620 --> 50:35.100]  Or maybe I'd just have to go to more conferences myself.
[50:35.840 --> 50:38.380]  Yeah, go to 33C3 in December.
[50:38.580 --> 50:51.460]  But, yeah, you know, I was super, super, super busy, and as busy as I was, you were running around and making everything happen and putting out all the small fires that needed to be put out even more than anyone else, you and Kyle.
[50:51.460 --> 51:00.780]  And so, wow, you know, kudos to you for helping make all that happen for everyone else and sacrificing your own time for it.
[51:00.980 --> 51:03.380]  Well, again, it's the magic of the community.
[51:03.540 --> 51:05.120]  This community can do anything.
[51:05.140 --> 51:12.040]  It can just basically build an incredible AV setup for one thing.
[51:12.160 --> 51:18.480]  That's our AV team alone puts so many other organizations to shame.
[51:18.480 --> 51:23.140]  Just being able to create something so professional out of...
[51:23.140 --> 51:28.120]  I would never be able to figure out how to do something like that so quickly and so smoothly.
[51:28.480 --> 51:32.660]  And have it all torn down, too, in record time when the conference is over.
[51:33.200 --> 51:35.160]  And then we have the network people.
[51:35.380 --> 51:44.660]  We have our many speakers from all over the world who basically take time out of their schedule to come and present to an eager audience.
[51:44.660 --> 51:54.600]  And, of course, that audience itself, which, you know, I said this at closing and various times during the conference, but, wow, we have such an incredible crowd of attendees.
[51:55.120 --> 51:57.580]  There were no incidents at all, you know?
[51:58.120 --> 52:07.860]  Nothing that would cause issues with the hotel or with the Department of Homeland Security or anything that...
[52:07.860 --> 52:09.780]  We had... I mentioned this.
[52:10.020 --> 52:12.520]  We had a 10 gigabit connection.
[52:13.280 --> 52:19.680]  And somehow, either to our credit or to our detriment, Donald Trump's website remained unscathed throughout the entire weekend.
[52:19.740 --> 52:26.700]  If you think about what we could have done, the mayhem we could have caused, but, you know, we basically did constructive things.
[52:27.200 --> 52:33.940]  And I think we've had a very mature and creative crowd at Hope.
[52:33.940 --> 52:36.160]  It's foreshadowing for what's to come.
[52:36.320 --> 52:39.600]  I think that that's the spirit of our community.
[52:40.780 --> 52:45.100]  And we saw an example of that in how people did behave.
[52:45.340 --> 52:45.500]  Yeah.
[52:45.560 --> 52:50.240]  One of my favorite things about putting all that infrastructure together every couple of years is that we have an amazing crew.
[52:50.360 --> 52:54.480]  Like you mentioned, the AV crew, you know, our friends, Maya, Chaos, all those great people.
[52:54.980 --> 52:59.260]  And we have so many of the same people coming back every couple of years to help again.
[52:59.260 --> 53:12.900]  And it gets to the point where every time we do this, the hotel staff, I think, are a bit bamboozled by the fact that, okay, here all of a sudden there are a couple of dozen people who know their facilities better than they do themselves and manage to do really amazing things.
[53:12.900 --> 53:18.120]  And not to take anything away from Hotel Pennsylvania, but most people are amazing of themselves.
[53:18.380 --> 53:20.200]  It's just, they have such...
[53:20.200 --> 53:20.980]  It's a city.
[53:21.140 --> 53:21.680]  It really is.
[53:21.700 --> 53:22.680]  That building is a city.
[53:22.680 --> 53:24.480]  There are catacombs.
[53:24.620 --> 53:31.160]  There are secret areas and all sorts of places where they keep things going.
[53:31.320 --> 53:33.920]  And they have been for so long.
[53:34.100 --> 53:39.020]  And we're a welcome part of that family, which I think is really kind of a cool thing.
[53:39.140 --> 53:46.600]  Ever since the first one back in 1994, this hotel was built back in 1917, 1919, way back then.
[53:47.620 --> 53:53.700]  And it continues to be our home and continues to be an amazing place that just feels better every time.
[53:53.780 --> 53:54.040]  Voltaire.
[53:54.220 --> 54:02.020]  Yeah, on the note of not de-dousing or doing anything bad like that, and also urban exploration, I thought it was funny.
[54:02.380 --> 54:09.080]  When I was speaking with somebody on the security team, they said that they weren't concerned at all with people using the network for bad things.
[54:09.280 --> 54:12.260]  In fact, we were running a tour exit note off it.
[54:12.620 --> 54:15.960]  And there were no concerns about doing bad things with the network.
[54:16.120 --> 54:19.940]  But what they were concerned about is people urban exploring places where they shouldn't be.
[54:20.120 --> 54:23.460]  So I just thought that was kind of like funny and ironic for a hacker conference.
[54:23.680 --> 54:24.000]  Well, yeah.
[54:24.180 --> 54:26.440]  I mean, urban exploring is a part of hacking.
[54:26.580 --> 54:33.560]  And we did have one incident where people went up on the roof, which, you know, is understandable.
[54:33.700 --> 54:35.320]  But, you know, we try to be clear.
[54:35.520 --> 54:37.380]  That's the one thing you can't do at the hotel.
[54:37.620 --> 54:39.240]  It's, you know, high rise.
[54:39.380 --> 54:40.980]  And they're very sensitive about that.
[54:41.300 --> 54:53.840]  And while we might not be able to see you going up to the roof, because you might go on a stairwell that we didn't, you know, watch, the cameras that are up there will see you immediately and alert the hotel security team.
[54:53.980 --> 54:57.200]  Now, our security team is the most awesome security team in the world.
[54:57.740 --> 55:13.820]  And they were able to leapfrog over both hotel security and the NYPD, which had been called because there were intruders on the roof and it's very dangerous, and actually managed to save some people from tasers.
[55:14.040 --> 55:18.800]  The NYPD, they were in the lobby heading up to the roof with tasers in hand.
[55:19.080 --> 55:26.200]  And our security team was able to defuse the situation and save these people who did not make that mistake again.
[55:26.200 --> 55:28.860]  So I'm very pleased with the way that turned out.
[55:29.140 --> 55:33.140]  We should just, for next time, I should reiterate that there's no pool on the roof.
[55:33.320 --> 55:40.300]  No pool on the roof, but there could be definitely a bad fate lying in store for you if you don't heed our warnings.
[55:40.300 --> 55:44.360]  So, Mitch, any more memories you care to share with us?
[55:46.420 --> 55:50.560]  I taught several hundred people how to solder during Hope.
[55:50.880 --> 55:52.380]  Oh, you're the one who did that.
[55:55.400 --> 55:56.920]  Yeah, I can't help myself.
[55:57.720 --> 55:59.400]  And tell us what that's like.
[56:01.460 --> 56:03.160]  You know, if...
[56:03.160 --> 56:06.680]  So I guess it's turned into kind of a fetish of mine.
[56:06.980 --> 56:12.100]  With their people's permission only, I love taking pictures of people soldering.
[56:12.460 --> 56:22.680]  And if you look on my Flickr, you'll see the latest additions from Hope and the places I've been since Hope, which is kind of legion by now, even if it's only been a week.
[56:23.140 --> 56:30.680]  But, yeah, so when people come together, it doesn't really matter so much what it is if it's something people think they'll enjoy.
[56:30.920 --> 56:38.020]  So something as simple as learning how to solder to make some little blinky light or a TV gun or whatever people chose to make.
[56:38.800 --> 56:43.060]  People are doing something that perhaps they thought they couldn't do before.
[56:44.180 --> 56:45.540]  And then it works.
[56:45.720 --> 56:48.560]  And all they have to do is follow a few simple steps.
[56:48.780 --> 56:50.120]  And it works.
[56:50.320 --> 56:56.180]  And they can show all their friends and now they have confidence to know they can do things they didn't know they could do in their life.
[56:56.380 --> 57:00.420]  You know, but the process of doing it, all these other people are doing it together with them.
[57:01.000 --> 57:03.000]  Everyone's encouraging each other.
[57:03.260 --> 57:07.020]  It was just me as sort of the teacher, mentor, whatever.
[57:07.700 --> 57:14.760]  And I couldn't attend to everyone at every moment because it's like 50 soldering irons all over the place in this area.
[57:14.820 --> 57:16.480]  But people are helping each other.
[57:17.180 --> 57:21.400]  And, you know, that's part of what makes good community is people helping each other.
[57:21.640 --> 57:23.540]  So the vibe is just really high.
[57:23.700 --> 57:34.200]  And if you look at any of the photos that I take or other people take at their workshops, whether it's origami or soldering or whatever, people look happy because they are.
[57:35.080 --> 57:42.200]  Yeah, and just about your soldering lessons, Mitch, I want to point out that when I took my first soldering lesson from you, I had been soldering since I was a kid.
[57:42.400 --> 57:47.280]  I had been soldering professionally at that point for I think five, six years in my career at the time.
[57:47.720 --> 57:51.980]  And still, at the end of that lesson, I was such a better solderer.
[57:52.360 --> 57:56.760]  And I have to tell everyone, if you ever get the chance to learn how to solder from Mitch Altman, do it.
[57:57.040 --> 58:01.040]  No matter how advanced you think you are in the art, just take Mitch's lesson.
[58:01.780 --> 58:03.680]  Yeah, it's definitely worth it.
[58:03.820 --> 58:05.160]  Definitely worth the experience.
[58:05.700 --> 58:09.480]  And if you want to just download a free comic, you just search for solder comic.
[58:09.660 --> 58:10.300]  I wrote a comic.
[58:10.500 --> 58:13.520]  It's translated into lots of languages, including Morse code.
[58:14.640 --> 58:15.020]  Interesting.
[58:15.780 --> 58:18.980]  Mitch, I understand you're with Bicycle Mark over there?
[58:19.660 --> 58:20.100]  Uh-huh.
[58:20.400 --> 58:20.660]  Wow.
[58:20.880 --> 58:23.460]  I didn't see you at the conference, Bicycle Mark.
[58:23.860 --> 58:25.720]  I was not there.
[58:26.240 --> 58:30.660]  I had to represent those of us who couldn't go over here in Amsterdam.
[58:30.660 --> 58:32.660]  It's a big responsibility, but that's what I did.
[58:32.780 --> 58:38.940]  But I was enjoying any information and the live content coming out of the conference.
[58:39.160 --> 58:40.520]  But indeed, I missed it.
[58:40.660 --> 58:41.640]  I bow my head in shame.
[58:42.140 --> 58:44.240]  Well, I mean, it's something to be ashamed of.
[58:44.380 --> 58:46.860]  Obviously, people have different things to do sometimes.
[58:47.040 --> 58:48.440]  I've missed my share of conferences.
[58:48.440 --> 58:54.780]  but the fact that you're able to attend remotely is something that we've only been able to do twice now.
[58:54.980 --> 59:02.260]  And I think we do it better than most any conference, except perhaps for the ones over there where you are.
[59:02.900 --> 59:05.280]  Yeah, I think it's extremely well organized.
[59:06.240 --> 59:14.580]  Even like each stream being able to see who's the speaker, a brief description, lots of information.
[59:14.800 --> 59:26.280]  I know you said that the content was still being organized in terms of recordings and stuff, but even now I can already see at least in terms of per talk a good amount of information.
[59:26.420 --> 59:26.760]  I like it.
[59:27.200 --> 59:28.500]  Yeah, well, we're still working on that.
[59:28.520 --> 59:29.480]  It's a tremendous amount.
[59:29.480 --> 59:35.060]  We have 100 talks we have to get organized and fill in the gaps and get it all right.
[59:35.480 --> 59:44.240]  But Winnie, our webmaster, did an incredible job with the website, just getting all that information out there, easily accessible.
[59:44.460 --> 59:46.720]  Aesthetics, I know, helped out quite a bit with that as well.
[59:47.740 --> 59:56.860]  And I think as far as making it easy to know what was on when, we did a better job this time than I think ever before.
[59:58.020 --> 01:00:05.080]  Also, this was the first year I believe that you had videos posted like the same day thanks to the Internet Society.
[01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:05.520]  Yes.
[01:00:05.640 --> 01:00:11.340]  If you go to livefreed.com slash Internet Society, you should be able to find those links.
[01:00:11.520 --> 01:00:19.500]  Unfortunately, they only flash at the moment, but if you look for the right tools, you can download that and convert that to your audio file.
[01:00:19.580 --> 01:00:24.400]  Yeah, again, and thanks to Internet Society for all their hard work and doing what they do.
[01:00:25.060 --> 01:00:30.440]  But yes, that's one format that's out there and we're working on getting it available in as many as possible.
[01:00:30.640 --> 01:00:37.080]  The idea is to get it out there and I think that's something that we're all sharing in.
[01:00:37.180 --> 01:00:40.360]  So I'm really thrilled that it was captured.
[01:00:40.580 --> 01:00:43.700]  We've captured every conference, in fact, since our very first one.
[01:00:44.140 --> 01:00:45.360]  And it's all about history.
[01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:48.020]  It's all about archiving and making sure people remember.
[01:00:48.160 --> 01:00:57.700]  And I think that's part of why people feel the enthusiasm they do for the Hope series because we just have this track record of making history.
[01:00:57.700 --> 01:01:01.100]  You know, we kind of turned the tables in 2000 when we had Jello B.
[01:01:01.120 --> 01:01:04.900]  Alphabia be our keynote speaker and that sort of changed the tone.
[01:01:05.020 --> 01:01:07.600]  Hey, a hacker conference doesn't have to just be about computers.
[01:01:07.900 --> 01:01:09.840]  It doesn't have to just be about something technical.
[01:01:10.020 --> 01:01:12.160]  It can be about social issues.
[01:01:12.340 --> 01:01:13.380]  It can be about activism.
[01:01:13.600 --> 01:01:17.040]  It can be about presentations from people who don't even own computers.
[01:01:17.800 --> 01:01:25.680]  And I think that's when the dialogue started to change and that's when we started to see a lot more diversity and we saw it become a whole lot more interesting.
[01:01:25.920 --> 01:01:28.960]  Now, Mitch, I know you said conference was 2006.
[01:01:29.300 --> 01:01:31.020]  I know, Kyle, that was also your first conference.
[01:01:31.720 --> 01:01:33.300]  First Hope conference, that is, anyway.
[01:01:34.080 --> 01:01:36.960]  But Mitch, what was it that brought you to Hope that first time?
[01:01:38.380 --> 01:01:40.540]  So, it was actually Bernie S.
[01:01:41.680 --> 01:01:56.300]  I had been doing TVB Gone for not all that long at that point and Bernie S found out about it near the beginning and he wanted to buy a box of them to give away his gifts and he called me and we worked out details and it turned out we actually liked each other.
[01:01:56.980 --> 01:02:01.400]  and he says, hey, you know, there's this conference and he told me about it.
[01:02:01.580 --> 01:02:05.720]  Of course, I'd sort of heard of hacker conferences but like, what's a hacker conference?
[01:02:05.940 --> 01:02:11.900]  You know, like most people think, is it a bunch of people getting together to learn how to break into people's computers?
[01:02:12.100 --> 01:02:15.180]  It's like, I wasn't necessarily thinking that but I didn't know what to think.
[01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:18.500]  So, anyways, he said, want to give a talk?
[01:02:19.180 --> 01:02:38.460]  And I was like, well, I'd be terrified to give a talk but I agreed and, yeah, so, like I said, it was the first time in my life where I felt really, really good being in a large group of people and, you know, it changed my life in so many ways for the positive that it's hard to even recount all the ways.
[01:02:38.460 --> 01:02:42.740]  Now, Kyle, you also came to 2000, to Hope No.
[01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:43.680]  6 in 2006.
[01:02:43.940 --> 01:02:45.080]  Do you remember seeing Mitch, No.
[01:02:45.180 --> 01:02:45.660]  1, and No.
[01:02:45.720 --> 01:02:48.140]  2, what was going through your head the first time?
[01:02:49.300 --> 01:02:52.000]  I don't remember seeing Mitch in particular.
[01:02:52.120 --> 01:03:20.160]  I'm sure we crossed paths though some way or somehow but I do remember my, I remember my planning for the event and I had listened to recordings of previous events and was encouraged to go basically by this radio program I believe and the magazine itself so by basically staying in tune with all of that I bought my ticket and well,
[01:03:20.480 --> 01:03:38.020]  gosh, when the program came up and you know, you saw all these things, these talks, all this information basically realizing you'd be wandering around through it all I remember being very deliberate and I'm sure a lot of people have done this especially people who have been to Hope you know,
[01:03:38.020 --> 01:03:59.300]  the first time they the basic like choosing of how you're going to allocate your time because you want to see every single talk so I planned out very strategically how I would see every single talk that I was interested in and I did that as per I'm sure a lot of people have in the past and boy,
[01:03:59.460 --> 01:04:30.340]  that was it from there I just continued to get more involved and go to more events and started to help and that's I think really the important thing for me because like Mitch said you're around a lot of geeks and you may not have that or I may not have had that in your perhaps entire high school career or college career or actual career or not a career at all maybe just in life You did not find
[01:04:30.340 --> 01:04:36.820]  that affinity and... and ability to make fun with other people, make your own fun.
[01:04:37.180 --> 01:04:46.100]  So, boy, like doing that, even things like work or digging trenches or all the kind of things we grumble about...
[01:04:46.100 --> 01:04:48.820]  But we didn't dig trenches at Hope, did we?
[01:04:50.180 --> 01:04:53.900]  No, you're talking about one of the European conferences that was outdoors, right?
[01:04:54.640 --> 01:04:58.340]  I am talking about a camp, but I mean, you know, it's the equivalent.
[01:04:58.340 --> 01:05:02.260]  I mean, we... the proverbial trenches that we dig...
[01:05:02.260 --> 01:05:03.540]  We offered to dig a ditch.
[01:05:03.740 --> 01:05:04.340]  In New York City.
[01:05:04.460 --> 01:05:11.880]  Yeah, for the people that wouldn't run a cable for us outside when they were saying it was impossible for us to get anything above 50 megabits.
[01:05:11.880 --> 01:05:12.620]  That's true, actually.
[01:05:12.620 --> 01:05:22.140]  When we were trying to find the original demarcation for our connectivity, we were offering to do construction from the street.
[01:05:22.260 --> 01:05:28.480]  And I think we made that offer to Verizon this year as well because it took them literally a month to install a simple phone line.
[01:05:28.720 --> 01:05:31.640]  We're still working with them on the bill.
[01:05:31.860 --> 01:05:35.580]  Yeah, because now they want to charge us for all the trips they made to do their job.
[01:05:35.580 --> 01:05:36.280]  It's incredible.
[01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:38.420]  Just install a damn phone line.
[01:05:38.520 --> 01:05:40.700]  This is what you supposedly were founded to do.
[01:05:40.980 --> 01:05:45.460]  And, you know, I know we could have just used Skype or something, you know, and just done everything on the network.
[01:05:45.600 --> 01:05:47.760]  We wanted a phone line for social engineering, okay?
[01:05:48.040 --> 01:05:48.600]  Sue us.
[01:05:48.680 --> 01:05:49.800]  It's something that we do.
[01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:53.940]  And you're the phone company, so it wasn't that much of a request.
[01:05:54.120 --> 01:05:54.280]  Well, it plays better.
[01:05:54.280 --> 01:05:55.900]  It plays better for a social engineering panel.
[01:05:55.900 --> 01:05:58.240]  I mean, to be on the public switch telephone network.
[01:05:58.460 --> 01:05:58.860]  I'm sorry.
[01:05:58.980 --> 01:06:00.980]  There's just something about that.
[01:06:01.360 --> 01:06:01.820]  Yeah.
[01:06:01.820 --> 01:06:02.360]  I thought so.
[01:06:02.520 --> 01:06:05.480]  Suffice to say, it's a lot of fun to get involved.
[01:06:05.680 --> 01:06:13.760]  And you basically realize that your community is ever bigger or can continue to grow outside of these kinds of events.
[01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:28.180]  So I encourage anybody who hasn't tried this, come or go to an event that interests you, and you'll probably have similar experiences as far as your social and sort of interests expanding.
[01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:30.440]  By the way, you're listening to WBAI New York.
[01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:34.640]  It's after 8 o'clock now if you're tuning in for the Personal Computer Show.
[01:06:34.940 --> 01:06:35.560]  Guess what?
[01:06:35.620 --> 01:06:37.700]  They're not on tonight because we're on for two hours.
[01:06:37.700 --> 01:06:41.520]  It's part of our... what season is this?
[01:06:41.620 --> 01:06:45.520]  A summer fundraiser, fund drive, here at the radio station.
[01:06:45.680 --> 01:06:48.120]  Please, 516-620-3602.
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[01:07:15.900 --> 01:07:16.380]  Yes.
[01:07:16.620 --> 01:07:18.580]  Mitch, you're still with us in Amsterdam.
[01:07:18.720 --> 01:07:20.060]  I imagine it's getting kind of late over there.
[01:07:20.980 --> 01:07:26.960]  Yeah, I gotta get up early tomorrow morning to head over to EMFCAP in the UK.
[01:07:28.140 --> 01:07:33.960]  But, you know, I've been running on sleep deprivation for the last month and a half.
[01:07:34.160 --> 01:07:35.800]  So what's one more night?
[01:07:35.820 --> 01:07:36.420]  I don't know.
[01:07:36.880 --> 01:07:37.420]  Did you ever stop?
[01:07:37.580 --> 01:07:38.520]  You're always traveling.
[01:07:38.780 --> 01:07:43.980]  You're always at some conference someplace teaching people how to solder and doing all kinds of awesome things.
[01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:46.660]  Yeah, you know, I do what I love.
[01:07:46.860 --> 01:07:55.720]  And, you know, sometimes it requires being in metal tubes for lots of hours and then popping out in a different bioregion and time zone.
[01:07:55.720 --> 01:07:58.960]  But I guess I'm used to being jet lagged.
[01:07:59.820 --> 01:08:06.740]  So with all this traveling you're doing, is it safe to say you're not intimidated by the concept of going to a hacker conference anymore?
[01:08:07.280 --> 01:08:09.580]  No, definitely not.
[01:08:09.580 --> 01:08:11.280]  It's funny how that changes.
[01:08:11.520 --> 01:08:12.020]  Uh-huh.
[01:08:12.320 --> 01:08:12.980]  Your perception.
[01:08:13.700 --> 01:08:15.040]  It changed instantly.
[01:08:15.860 --> 01:08:19.480]  So, you know, one thing I wanted to add, what Kyle was saying.
[01:08:19.480 --> 01:08:29.320]  And, you know, as great as the more than 100 talks, and there were 154 speakers, I know, because I had to make the badges for them.
[01:08:30.680 --> 01:08:38.480]  And as great as all that was, you know, and you can get it live streamed and we can get in all these different formats that are coming out.
[01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:41.620]  And it's fantastic.
[01:08:41.680 --> 01:08:45.440]  But there's nothing like actually being there.
[01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:48.740]  And we really need that.
[01:08:49.160 --> 01:08:50.580]  The Internet's a fantastic tool.
[01:08:50.760 --> 01:08:57.320]  It's fantastic if you're in the middle of nowhere and you can't travel, you don't have enough money or you're afraid of it or whatever reasons you can't go.
[01:08:57.320 --> 01:08:59.740]  It's way wonderful to have that.
[01:09:00.080 --> 01:09:15.700]  But if you can do anything to actually be in a group of people who are all welcoming and diverse and wanting to share enthusiastically, wanting to learn from whatever you might have to share, it's just magic.
[01:09:15.700 --> 01:09:17.060]  It's totally magic.
[01:09:17.340 --> 01:09:18.540]  And there's nothing like it.
[01:09:19.300 --> 01:09:23.320]  Hacker conferences are the highlights of my life.
[01:09:23.320 --> 01:09:30.020]  And from so many people I talk to at these events, it's the same for so many people I talk to.
[01:09:30.860 --> 01:09:35.360]  So it's way worth going out of your way to experience this at least once.
[01:09:35.360 --> 01:09:36.800]  And if you like it, then more.
[01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:40.340]  Yeah, I think that sums it up quite nicely.
[01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:44.220]  You don't have to make every single one, but definitely try to make some of them.
[01:09:44.360 --> 01:09:51.480]  And, you know, I think you'll take away so much, so much in the way of memories and good experiences.
[01:09:52.700 --> 01:10:00.320]  But, Mitch, I hope you get to spend some time resting at some point because it just seems like you're always on the road and on your way to one place or another.
[01:10:01.080 --> 01:10:04.740]  Yeah, this is the most intense travel I've done in my life.
[01:10:06.080 --> 01:10:21.460]  But it's been fantastic going from India to San Francisco, which is home for a week and a half, and then to Sapporo and Tokyo, and then a hacker farm, and then to do Hope, and now hacker conferences.
[01:10:21.460 --> 01:10:28.760]  There's a bunch of small hacker camps in Europe this summer, five of them all weekend after weekend, all in a row.
[01:10:28.920 --> 01:10:30.280]  And then I go to China for two months.
[01:10:31.100 --> 01:10:31.320]  Wow.
[01:10:31.440 --> 01:10:35.880]  So, actually, I can do a plug for my hacker trip to China really shortly.
[01:10:35.900 --> 01:10:36.360]  Yes, please.
[01:10:37.040 --> 01:10:44.440]  So, every year I bring a group of people to China, and we visit hacker spaces in China.
[01:10:44.740 --> 01:10:53.540]  And there are amazing spaces in China that have been forming, some of them community groups, some of them encouraged by the government from the top down.
[01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:59.520]  A lot's happening in China, and not all of it like we hear of on the mainstream news negative.
[01:10:59.720 --> 01:11:01.960]  There's a lot of really positive change happening there.
[01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:05.240]  And so, I like showing people the pluses and the minuses.
[01:11:05.400 --> 01:11:10.020]  And with the blessing of the Chinese government, they know we're doing this.
[01:11:10.180 --> 01:11:20.940]  And we visit schools, we give presentations for people who want to, and we visit manufacturers and see how all the devices that many of us carry in our pockets, you know, where do they come from?
[01:11:22.560 --> 01:11:25.020]  And it's unique every time.
[01:11:25.280 --> 01:11:26.820]  It's not an average tour group.
[01:11:26.820 --> 01:11:31.100]  I just set up an outline, and we all meet in Beijing on October 11th.
[01:11:31.100 --> 01:11:40.640]  For anyone interested, just search for China Trip on the noisebridge.net website, or on your favorite web browser.
[01:11:41.080 --> 01:11:45.800]  Or email me, Mitch, at cornfieldelectronics.com.
[01:11:46.080 --> 01:11:51.900]  And, you know, if you're at all interested, you're welcome to come or ask me questions.
[01:11:52.680 --> 01:12:00.480]  Well, Mitch, I can say that anybody who does follow through on that will have an amazing experience and will not regret it.
[01:12:00.600 --> 01:12:06.520]  So, I hope it goes well and that you get a lot of fun out of it as well.
[01:12:07.080 --> 01:12:11.820]  Amazing job you did on getting the badges together for this most recent conference.
[01:12:11.820 --> 01:12:14.100]  By the way, I wanted to ask you, you went to hope number six.
[01:12:14.260 --> 01:12:14.940]  Do you still have your button?
[01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:16.220]  Of course!
[01:12:17.120 --> 01:12:23.560]  And everybody was assigned a unique number at that conference because it was hope number six, sort of based on the prisoner.
[01:12:23.700 --> 01:12:24.640]  Do you remember what your number was?
[01:12:25.600 --> 01:12:26.000]  67.
[01:12:26.540 --> 01:12:26.840]  Really?
[01:12:27.000 --> 01:12:27.160]  Wow!
[01:12:27.200 --> 01:12:29.200]  I didn't expect an answer like that.
[01:12:29.320 --> 01:12:29.900]  That's incredible.
[01:12:29.900 --> 01:12:30.800]  I am not a number.
[01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:31.920]  I'm a human being.
[01:12:32.760 --> 01:12:34.300]  Kyle, I'm going to ask you the same question.
[01:12:34.780 --> 01:12:35.180]  337.
[01:12:35.180 --> 01:12:35.620]  Really?
[01:12:35.920 --> 01:12:36.100]  Yeah.
[01:12:36.540 --> 01:12:36.740]  Wow.
[01:12:36.960 --> 01:12:37.800]  It's a good number.
[01:12:37.940 --> 01:12:40.340]  I'm embarrassed I don't remember my number because...
[01:12:40.340 --> 01:12:40.740]  Well, somebody...
[01:12:40.740 --> 01:12:41.480]  I don't remember your number.
[01:12:41.480 --> 01:12:42.480]  Well, somebody gave me...
[01:12:42.480 --> 01:12:44.120]  No, somebody gave me 2600.
[01:12:44.260 --> 01:12:45.800]  Somebody found that one and gave it to me.
[01:12:45.820 --> 01:12:48.180]  But I had a regular number that...
[01:12:48.780 --> 01:12:49.180]  Yeah.
[01:12:49.600 --> 01:12:50.220]  No, I know.
[01:12:50.380 --> 01:12:51.420]  The number two as well.
[01:12:51.680 --> 01:12:53.500]  We made all the staff people number two.
[01:12:53.700 --> 01:12:54.780]  I know that was funny as well.
[01:12:54.940 --> 01:12:58.280]  But I had another unique number and I forget what it was.
[01:12:58.600 --> 01:12:58.900]  Walter?
[01:12:59.060 --> 01:12:59.900]  Who is number one?
[01:13:00.220 --> 01:13:07.100]  Oh, you know, you have to watch the closing ceremonies of hope number six, which you can do on YouTube and you'll find out who number one is.
[01:13:07.260 --> 01:13:08.140]  Or will you?
[01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:09.820]  That would be telling.
[01:13:10.080 --> 01:13:11.100]  That would be very telling.
[01:13:12.100 --> 01:13:13.300]  Mitch, thank you again.
[01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:14.980]  And Bicycle Mark, greetings to you.
[01:13:15.060 --> 01:13:18.180]  Hopefully, we'll see you at some point either in this country or a different one.
[01:13:18.800 --> 01:13:20.160]  I'll be there next month to visit you.
[01:13:20.320 --> 01:13:21.500]  Oh, next month you're coming here.
[01:13:21.880 --> 01:13:22.560]  That is correct.
[01:13:22.740 --> 01:13:23.340]  Okay, great.
[01:13:23.500 --> 01:13:25.440]  Well, we look forward to having you in this studio then.
[01:13:26.240 --> 01:13:26.580]  Likewise.
[01:13:26.900 --> 01:13:27.200]  All right.
[01:13:27.700 --> 01:13:28.040]  Well, yeah.
[01:13:29.560 --> 01:13:31.520]  We'll be in your studio at some point too, I imagine.
[01:13:32.000 --> 01:13:32.440]  That's good.
[01:13:33.260 --> 01:13:35.120]  Well, greetings to Amsterdam from New York.
[01:13:35.220 --> 01:13:38.200]  And we hope that everything goes well over there.
[01:13:39.120 --> 01:13:39.620]  Yeah, thanks.
[01:13:39.720 --> 01:13:39.920]  Thanks.
[01:13:40.140 --> 01:13:42.140]  And good to hear all of you on the radio.
[01:13:42.640 --> 01:13:42.820]  Yeah.
[01:13:42.860 --> 01:13:43.100]  Okay.
[01:13:43.320 --> 01:13:43.800]  Well, goodbye.
[01:13:43.940 --> 01:13:44.260]  What do we do?
[01:13:44.420 --> 01:13:45.380]  Hang up this confounded thing?
[01:13:45.440 --> 01:13:45.840]  How does it work?
[01:13:47.180 --> 01:13:48.420]  Did I press a button now?
[01:13:48.480 --> 01:13:49.680]  There's no switch hook to hang up.
[01:13:49.780 --> 01:13:50.200]  You can't slam it.
[01:13:50.760 --> 01:13:52.320]  I don't know how this technology works.
[01:13:52.420 --> 01:13:53.240]  I'm going to hang it up.
[01:13:53.240 --> 01:13:55.580]  They are no longer with us, but if you...
[01:13:55.580 --> 01:13:56.400]  Yeah, if I hung up the phone.
[01:13:56.540 --> 01:13:58.460]  You can't slam a soft phone.
[01:13:58.480 --> 01:14:00.700]  Well, I just wanted to have the effect of hanging up.
[01:14:00.700 --> 01:14:01.920]  We don't have enough Foley on the show.
[01:14:01.920 --> 01:14:02.300]  I like that.
[01:14:02.580 --> 01:14:06.780]  But now that they're no longer with us, I can try and get Bernie back if you can.
[01:14:06.780 --> 01:14:07.740]  Yeah, try and get Bernie back.
[01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:12.400]  And also, we did threaten to take phone calls before, and we're going to try and do that as well.
[01:14:13.060 --> 01:14:14.720]  But first, let's get Bernie back.
[01:14:15.660 --> 01:14:18.920]  And I'll read another bit of feedback from somebody else.
[01:14:19.100 --> 01:14:20.440]  This person's name...
[01:14:20.440 --> 01:14:21.720]  I don't know how to pronounce this.
[01:14:22.300 --> 01:14:24.340]  I'm going to say it the way it's spelled.
[01:14:24.540 --> 01:14:25.640]  G Druid.
[01:14:26.180 --> 01:14:26.600]  All right?
[01:14:26.740 --> 01:14:29.420]  And that's the only time I'm going to say that name, because I probably said it wrong.
[01:14:29.800 --> 01:14:33.760]  It was my first Hope, my first Hacker Conference, my first time in New York City, and it was great.
[01:14:33.900 --> 01:14:34.060]  Wow.
[01:14:34.480 --> 01:14:37.900]  That's an incredible way to see New York for the first time is through a Hope Conference.
[01:14:38.020 --> 01:14:39.000]  I know a lot of people did.
[01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:40.220]  And I just...
[01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:44.540]  That makes me feel great that so many people got to see New York in that manner.
[01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:49.080]  It felt very casual and relaxed, which is nice for a first timer like me.
[01:14:49.600 --> 01:14:54.900]  I spent most of the time watching the talks mainly because I'm not too confident about my English skills.
[01:14:55.600 --> 01:15:00.540]  So anything that required more talking on my side than just saying hi was discarded.
[01:15:01.140 --> 01:15:05.620]  Even then, I really enjoyed the conference, and I'm already looking forward to the next one.
[01:15:05.940 --> 01:15:08.640]  The humorous style of many of the talks was really enjoyable.
[01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:14.060]  Like the Hacking Sex talk, and RMS, Richard Stallman, he's just so funny.
[01:15:14.920 --> 01:15:16.260]  Which, you know, it's good to hear.
[01:15:16.360 --> 01:15:18.940]  It's good to hear people see the humor of Richard Stallman.
[01:15:20.220 --> 01:15:24.500]  It's great to see that even when the world is so messed up, there is hope in New York City.
[01:15:24.760 --> 01:15:27.340]  And thanks very much for that kind letter.
[01:15:27.420 --> 01:15:28.300]  And welcome back, Bernie.
[01:15:29.540 --> 01:15:29.800]  Hello.
[01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:32.560]  Yeah, I guess I was on hiatus for about an hour, but that's okay.
[01:15:33.280 --> 01:15:34.480]  We're able to get ahold of Mitch.
[01:15:35.160 --> 01:15:37.260]  Yeah, you don't listen to our show, do you, Bernie?
[01:15:38.040 --> 01:15:38.820]  I couldn't.
[01:15:38.980 --> 01:15:41.680]  I was on hold, waiting all this time.
[01:15:41.800 --> 01:15:45.140]  But aren't there all kinds of devices and things that get our show now?
[01:15:45.360 --> 01:15:47.540]  You know, there's the internet, there's TuneIn, there's...
[01:15:47.540 --> 01:15:49.620]  I was patiently waiting on the phone.
[01:15:49.840 --> 01:15:50.640]  What can I say?
[01:15:50.780 --> 01:15:51.980]  Okay, I just want to get this clear.
[01:15:52.080 --> 01:15:59.940]  You were just basically, for the last hour, sitting in a chair with a cell phone next to your head, not talking to anybody?
[01:16:01.100 --> 01:16:04.900]  Actually, I'm sitting on a sidewalk, right outside of the studios of WPPM.
[01:16:04.960 --> 01:16:05.960]  It sounds like it's raining.
[01:16:06.180 --> 01:16:06.380]  Okay.
[01:16:06.380 --> 01:16:07.980]  It sounds like it's raining there or something.
[01:16:08.940 --> 01:16:10.240]  No, it's not raining, it's beautiful.
[01:16:10.460 --> 01:16:10.620]  Oh.
[01:16:10.700 --> 01:16:11.980]  It's a street noise, I'm sorry.
[01:16:12.260 --> 01:16:13.020]  Oh, maybe that's what it is.
[01:16:13.020 --> 01:16:15.520]  You know, a cell phone would not pick up the sound of rain anyway.
[01:16:15.800 --> 01:16:19.180]  So many things, cell phones just mute out that you can't...
[01:16:19.180 --> 01:16:20.320]  I'm not getting into this.
[01:16:20.460 --> 01:16:22.100]  But Bernie, you mentioned your radio station.
[01:16:22.200 --> 01:16:22.820]  It's on the air now?
[01:16:22.920 --> 01:16:24.000]  The conversation with Mitch.
[01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:24.020]  Mitch.
[01:16:24.540 --> 01:16:25.980]  I'm sorry, someone hit a touchdown.
[01:16:26.960 --> 01:16:30.220]  Did you get a hold of Mitch Altman?
[01:16:30.320 --> 01:16:30.780]  Yes, we did.
[01:16:30.900 --> 01:16:34.080]  No, we were waiting to talk to you.
[01:16:34.180 --> 01:16:36.980]  We were just sitting around not saying anything, thinking that you were going to talk to us.
[01:16:37.020 --> 01:16:37.760]  Stop messing with him, yes.
[01:16:37.760 --> 01:16:38.340]  All right, all right.
[01:16:38.600 --> 01:16:39.880]  You mentioned your radio station.
[01:16:39.940 --> 01:16:41.660]  I want to know if your radio station is on the air in Philadelphia.
[01:16:42.540 --> 01:16:45.540]  Yes, it's on the air on 106.5 FM.
[01:16:46.360 --> 01:16:51.720]  And I'm here with a reporter from the Philadelphia Inquirer who's doing a story about the radio station.
[01:16:52.240 --> 01:16:53.220]  And it's on the air.
[01:16:53.220 --> 01:16:54.500]  The studios are still...
[01:16:54.500 --> 01:16:58.800]  We're still putting the studio together, so we just have stuff playing off a computer that we've recorded in advance.
[01:16:58.980 --> 01:16:59.020]  Uh-huh.
[01:16:59.020 --> 01:17:07.000]  But yes, anybody in the Philadelphia area can tune in to 106.5 FM and listen to People Power Media.
[01:17:07.640 --> 01:17:11.460]  And you know, you guys are welcome to rebroadcast Off the Hook, too, anytime you want.
[01:17:12.760 --> 01:17:13.620]  Just putting it out there.
[01:17:13.620 --> 01:17:23.200]  Yes, we hope to simulcast Off the Hook on Wednesday nights, 7 to 8 on WPPM, just like it is on two other LPFM stations.
[01:17:23.960 --> 01:17:35.600]  And you know, one day I intend to get into the range where those stations broadcast during our show and hear it for myself, because that would be really cool to hear Off the Hook on a different radio station, just being simulcast.
[01:17:37.060 --> 01:17:38.040]  We're on...
[01:17:38.040 --> 01:17:50.100]  Off the Hook is simulcast on Woodstock 104 in Woodstock, New York, and also on WXOJ, which is in Northampton, Massachusetts.
[01:17:50.100 --> 01:17:51.140]  Oh, really?
[01:17:51.400 --> 01:17:51.420]  Okay.
[01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:52.400]  You're spreading, Emmanuel.
[01:17:53.020 --> 01:17:53.580]  You're spreading.
[01:17:53.740 --> 01:17:54.520]  You're spreading all over the place.
[01:17:54.520 --> 01:17:55.780]  I've been accused of that before.
[01:17:55.940 --> 01:17:56.880]  That's incredible.
[01:17:57.160 --> 01:17:57.460]  All right.
[01:17:57.540 --> 01:17:58.080]  Well, let's...
[01:17:58.080 --> 01:17:59.500]  I'll have to make it to Northampton, then.
[01:17:59.620 --> 01:17:59.960]  Yes, Walter?
[01:18:00.220 --> 01:18:02.940]  Aren't we also simulcast on shortwave?
[01:18:03.440 --> 01:18:04.340]  No, not anymore.
[01:18:04.480 --> 01:18:04.680]  Okay.
[01:18:04.720 --> 01:18:05.180]  Not anymore.
[01:18:05.900 --> 01:18:08.040]  The shortwave is over, unfortunately.
[01:18:08.240 --> 01:18:08.340]  Yes.
[01:18:08.340 --> 01:18:08.960]  There's not enough listeners.
[01:18:09.460 --> 01:18:12.120]  But, you know, anybody who wants to pay for it, that'd be great.
[01:18:12.360 --> 01:18:13.180]  You know, if...
[01:18:13.180 --> 01:18:17.740]  Yeah, because that cost a small fortune to put us on the air on the shortwave.
[01:18:17.740 --> 01:18:19.980]  But if you have a shortwave station, you're welcome to broadcast us.
[01:18:20.080 --> 01:18:22.320]  In fact, any station is welcome to broadcast us.
[01:18:22.480 --> 01:18:28.420]  So just write to OTH at 2600.com, and we can talk about that.
[01:18:28.640 --> 01:18:40.200]  Speaking of making contact, it's important that you make contact with our phone number, our pledge line, 516-620-3602, to keep WBAI on the air.
[01:18:40.880 --> 01:18:44.500]  We have been on the air now for 56 years.
[01:18:44.900 --> 01:18:45.820]  That's incredible.
[01:18:47.260 --> 01:18:48.800]  And we're still going strong.
[01:18:48.800 --> 01:18:59.100]  And we're still putting on new voices, and putting forth new ideas, and having all kinds of fun that people have forgotten how to have on the FM bandwave.
[01:18:59.620 --> 01:19:00.060]  Bandwave?
[01:19:01.080 --> 01:19:01.520]  Wavelength.
[01:19:02.580 --> 01:19:03.020]  FM...
[01:19:03.020 --> 01:19:03.760]  I'm sorry.
[01:19:03.920 --> 01:19:05.300]  I've been on the air too long here.
[01:19:05.480 --> 01:19:06.900]  The FM band.
[01:19:07.260 --> 01:19:07.340]  Band.
[01:19:07.620 --> 01:19:08.340]  Yes, that's what I meant to say.
[01:19:08.380 --> 01:19:09.200]  Frequency modulation band.
[01:19:09.200 --> 01:19:10.660]  Frequency modulation band.
[01:19:10.780 --> 01:19:11.000]  Yes.
[01:19:11.080 --> 01:19:11.680]  Thank you, Kyle.
[01:19:11.900 --> 01:19:12.140]  Yes.
[01:19:12.760 --> 01:19:15.180]  I want to read another bit of feedback.
[01:19:15.380 --> 01:19:20.100]  And then we're going to try and take some listener phone calls, because we have no phones here, but we're hackers, so we have to figure out how to do that anyway.
[01:19:21.060 --> 01:19:22.880]  We can continue to do this radio show.
[01:19:23.040 --> 01:19:34.620]  We continue to have this radio station at 99.5 FM in New York City, if you call us and pledge and keep the funds coming in, because we have no commercials, we have no sponsors, we have no underwriters.
[01:19:35.360 --> 01:19:36.880]  There's a lot of things we don't have.
[01:19:37.100 --> 01:19:38.560]  And most of it is by choice.
[01:19:38.720 --> 01:19:43.880]  Some of it is not by choice, but the things that are by choice are things we don't...
[01:19:44.380 --> 01:19:45.500]  we're better off not having.
[01:19:46.160 --> 01:19:47.580]  Would you want to hear a commercial now?
[01:19:47.720 --> 01:19:48.720]  I wouldn't want to hear one.
[01:19:48.720 --> 01:19:52.000]  Yo, we have stuff, right?
[01:19:52.180 --> 01:19:52.300]  Uh-huh.
[01:19:52.300 --> 01:19:53.400]  We have a lot of stuff.
[01:19:53.500 --> 01:19:54.200]  We have so much stuff.
[01:19:54.240 --> 01:19:57.040]  We have things that aren't even hooked up that we have.
[01:19:57.380 --> 01:19:57.620]  Okay.
[01:19:57.620 --> 01:19:59.000]  Yeah, we have stuff.
[01:19:59.060 --> 01:19:59.720]  That's true.
[01:19:59.740 --> 01:20:01.680]  It's not really that.
[01:20:01.840 --> 01:20:04.040]  It's the whole package is just...
[01:20:04.040 --> 01:20:06.680]  It needs a little work, you know?
[01:20:06.780 --> 01:20:06.900]  Mm-hmm.
[01:20:06.900 --> 01:20:09.620]  A little Ricky Lake kind of makeover.
[01:20:10.420 --> 01:20:11.060]  All right.
[01:20:11.140 --> 01:20:11.940]  Well, that's an image.
[01:20:12.720 --> 01:20:14.720]  516-620-3602.
[01:20:15.300 --> 01:20:18.340]  Please call that line and pledge whatever you can afford.
[01:20:18.340 --> 01:20:19.820]  As you can see, we need the help.
[01:20:20.200 --> 01:20:21.000]  Yeah, yeah.
[01:20:21.260 --> 01:20:31.720]  We would really appreciate, you know, more evolution and engineering prowess here at WBAI.
[01:20:31.720 --> 01:20:53.920]  And it's really about getting those volunteers, getting the community excited about the possibility and the basic ability for us to persist here and produce this content, come in every week and, you know, say our piece and give a little bit of insight into this world and share that.
[01:20:53.920 --> 01:20:55.920]  And keep in mind, it's not just us.
[01:20:56.920 --> 01:21:08.080]  Like Hope, this radio station has about 100 other gatherings of people every week saying whatever it is that's on their mind, talking to their various communities.
[01:21:08.580 --> 01:21:13.680]  And that's magic right there, because we are all one community when we put it all together.
[01:21:14.000 --> 01:21:22.440]  And what you hear in a given week is so diverse, so interesting, so eclectic, and so inspirational to so many other radio stations around the world.
[01:21:22.440 --> 01:21:23.800]  People know about WBAI.
[01:21:23.920 --> 01:21:25.320]  You can be a part of that family.
[01:21:25.460 --> 01:21:26.180]  You can join us.
[01:21:26.280 --> 01:21:28.040]  It is what we all make it.
[01:21:28.200 --> 01:21:31.800]  So please participate and be a part of this.
[01:21:32.140 --> 01:21:34.800]  516-620-3602.
[01:21:34.940 --> 01:21:36.040]  You can pledge any amount.
[01:21:36.040 --> 01:21:37.260]  It's all welcome.
[01:21:37.280 --> 01:21:39.120]  It all goes to a good cause.
[01:21:39.960 --> 01:21:45.100]  Here's another bit of feedback from an attendee at the conference, the 11th Hope.
[01:21:45.780 --> 01:21:47.560]  The 11th Hope, gone too soon.
[01:21:47.740 --> 01:21:48.700]  Awesome con, folks.
[01:21:48.820 --> 01:21:51.460]  I can't believe it's now going to be another two years of waiting.
[01:21:52.080 --> 01:21:55.460]  Well, of course, the first year is taken up by us trying to figure out a name for the next one.
[01:21:55.560 --> 01:21:56.600]  That's going to take a little while.
[01:21:57.380 --> 01:21:59.200]  But we'll come up with something clever, I'm sure.
[01:21:59.700 --> 01:22:02.520]  Here's my list of goods and bads, highs and lows.
[01:22:02.680 --> 01:22:03.840]  Should you be so interested?
[01:22:04.180 --> 01:22:05.800]  And we are so interested.
[01:22:06.040 --> 01:22:07.400]  Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
[01:22:07.580 --> 01:22:10.280]  Is this another person telling us how well organized it was?
[01:22:10.280 --> 01:22:18.020]  Because I heard that a couple different places, and I just think every single time I think to myself, is this the same conference?
[01:22:18.360 --> 01:22:21.560]  Like, did they go to the conference that I was...
[01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:23.000]  You didn't think it was well organized?
[01:22:23.600 --> 01:22:25.980]  I think that that is a high compliment.
[01:22:25.980 --> 01:22:36.400]  And I'm not sure that if they had the same perspective that some of the organizers did, they probably wouldn't feel the same way.
[01:22:36.400 --> 01:22:39.660]  We see the chaos, yeah, we see it from the inside.
[01:22:39.660 --> 01:22:42.620]  Nothing seems organized when you're part of the building.
[01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:44.320]  But, no, it's so true.
[01:22:44.320 --> 01:22:50.340]  And so I am absolutely, I'm blown away by those compliments that it appears that way.
[01:22:50.360 --> 01:22:50.680]  Mm-hmm.
[01:22:51.200 --> 01:23:03.400]  Because if you're working on one of those things, it is definitely like some kind of sculpture or some working art.
[01:23:03.400 --> 01:23:14.620]  I don't think there's a single organization of any sort that on the inside will not say, wow, you wouldn't believe how we pulled that off, and I can't believe that worked.
[01:23:14.840 --> 01:23:19.960]  Yeah, you have to be open to things going different ways than perhaps you designed.
[01:23:20.180 --> 01:23:25.840]  But I love that people have lists of what they liked and didn't like.
[01:23:26.060 --> 01:23:27.580]  Yeah, it's a sizable list, too.
[01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:29.760]  I like to get into this list.
[01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:33.420]  Yeah, no, all right, take it away, take it away, as long as it's just, you know.
[01:23:33.560 --> 01:23:34.180]  Rob has something.
[01:23:34.340 --> 01:23:45.760]  I would just like to point out that the beautiful chaos that we have behind the scenes always seems to come out well and generate just the right kind of slightly chaotic order that we need at this event.
[01:23:45.760 --> 01:23:56.220]  And I mean, like you two guys, I mean, my distinguished colleagues here and at the conference, and I think I only saw you a few times as sort of the Emanuel and Kyle-shaped blurs that were going past it one way or another.
[01:23:56.320 --> 01:24:06.580]  But it's not just us, it's like everyone we've got working on the staff behind the scenes, the right amounts of chaos are dispensed to the right people who know exactly what to do with them and exactly how to handle them.
[01:24:07.020 --> 01:24:11.140]  And we just couldn't ask for a better crowd there to help make it all happen.
[01:24:11.140 --> 01:24:17.560]  I love that you keep saying that chaos is the theme and the head of our EV department, her name is chaos.
[01:24:17.760 --> 01:24:17.900]  Yes.
[01:24:18.180 --> 01:24:21.520]  Her handle is, so that's, I think that's synchronicity right there.
[01:24:21.700 --> 01:24:22.580]  We owe a lot to chaos.
[01:24:22.680 --> 01:24:23.300]  We sure do.
[01:24:24.060 --> 01:24:26.780]  Anyway, here's a little bit of this list here.
[01:24:27.240 --> 01:24:31.460]  The Great, Segways, Deep Web by Alex Winter.
[01:24:32.340 --> 01:24:32.520]  Yeah.
[01:24:33.860 --> 01:24:34.200]  Okay.
[01:24:34.920 --> 01:24:38.900]  David Gurin in Pirate Radio, he was on this show a couple weeks ago.
[01:24:38.900 --> 01:24:41.780]  Mark Fahey, this dude should be a requirement in every hope con.
[01:24:41.980 --> 01:24:42.300]  Wow.
[01:24:42.460 --> 01:24:45.400]  That's another speaker, Bernie, that you got from Australia.
[01:24:46.480 --> 01:24:49.780]  Yeah, he's, that's like about radio frequencies?
[01:24:50.740 --> 01:24:51.620]  All sorts of things.
[01:24:51.780 --> 01:24:52.640]  Bernie, are you there?
[01:24:53.920 --> 01:24:55.060]  Okay, Bernie's drifted away.
[01:24:55.120 --> 01:24:55.820]  I don't know where...
[01:24:55.820 --> 01:24:58.120]  Oh, no, I'm bringing up the right...
[01:24:58.120 --> 01:24:58.900]  You're on the right side.
[01:24:58.920 --> 01:24:59.700]  I'm here, I'm here.
[01:24:59.740 --> 01:25:00.120]  There you are.
[01:25:00.240 --> 01:25:01.300]  Okay, what happened to your phone?
[01:25:01.580 --> 01:25:02.740]  That's about like North Korean radio stations.
[01:25:03.020 --> 01:25:03.320]  Yeah.
[01:25:03.480 --> 01:25:04.060]  Where are you?
[01:25:04.060 --> 01:25:05.860]  We're talking about Mark Fahey.
[01:25:06.820 --> 01:25:12.820]  Mark Fahey's program about being a broadcast anthropologist was very well received.
[01:25:13.460 --> 01:25:15.160]  Yes, we're alluding to that.
[01:25:15.240 --> 01:25:18.860]  He showed this amazing video that he received via satellite TV.
[01:25:19.120 --> 01:25:20.980]  You don't have to pay for any of this stuff.
[01:25:21.020 --> 01:25:22.120]  You don't even have to hack anything.
[01:25:22.120 --> 01:25:23.720]  It's called Free to Air.
[01:25:23.960 --> 01:25:26.360]  And there's thousands and thousands of channels.
[01:25:26.780 --> 01:25:27.940]  He's getting...
[01:25:27.940 --> 01:25:30.020]  He showed programming...
[01:25:30.020 --> 01:25:36.180]  He showed the last moments of Libyan television before it was blown off the air.
[01:25:37.020 --> 01:25:37.580]  Wow.
[01:25:37.660 --> 01:25:40.360]  So he not only received that, he recorded that.
[01:25:42.160 --> 01:25:43.780]  He monitors all this stuff.
[01:25:43.780 --> 01:25:45.340]  He records it on a giant hard drive.
[01:25:45.340 --> 01:25:45.860]  Wow.
[01:25:45.960 --> 01:25:47.360]  He's a broadcast anthropologist.
[01:25:47.560 --> 01:25:50.220]  He showed video from Al Menar.
[01:25:50.780 --> 01:25:54.980]  And it's not this guy in Manhattan named Al Menar.
[01:25:55.080 --> 01:25:56.300]  Al Menar is the...
[01:25:57.360 --> 01:25:59.560]  It's like the Al Jazeera of Hezbollah.
[01:26:00.000 --> 01:26:06.580]  It's the TV channel for the Hezbollah party.
[01:26:06.840 --> 01:26:08.920]  Bernie, are you running down the street?
[01:26:08.920 --> 01:26:10.520]  It sounds like you're in motion.
[01:26:11.860 --> 01:26:14.880]  I'm actually walking up a ramp into a parking garage.
[01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:16.300]  I'm sorry if I sound echoey.
[01:26:16.560 --> 01:26:18.000]  No, you just sound a little out of breath.
[01:26:18.140 --> 01:26:19.780]  That's why I was a little concerned there.
[01:26:20.360 --> 01:26:21.080]  Well, I just get...
[01:26:21.080 --> 01:26:22.780]  I just get excited talking about this stuff.
[01:26:22.800 --> 01:26:23.760]  Well, you should get excited.
[01:26:24.200 --> 01:26:25.600]  But one other thing I want to bring up.
[01:26:25.700 --> 01:26:26.780]  Occasionally, we're hearing touchdowns.
[01:26:26.780 --> 01:26:31.080]  I realize you're using a telephone that is not normally used by you.
[01:26:31.220 --> 01:26:38.000]  You're using a temporary phone because of what happened to your other phone at the Hope Conference.
[01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:43.740]  Do you want to share with people just what happened during those closing ceremonies?
[01:26:44.680 --> 01:26:50.000]  Yeah, my BlackBerry Dead 30 phone, which I cherish, was...
[01:26:50.000 --> 01:26:59.520]  The display was obliterated during this crazy thing that happened to me at the 11th Hope Closing Ceremony.
[01:26:59.560 --> 01:27:00.380]  Yeah, we all saw it.
[01:27:00.380 --> 01:27:00.880]  I was standing there.
[01:27:01.320 --> 01:27:07.200]  I was standing there, and Johannes was talking about some negative energy he was picking up.
[01:27:07.820 --> 01:27:11.260]  He had a divining rod, and he was picking up the negative energy in the crowd.
[01:27:11.420 --> 01:27:12.860]  And he started putting it at me.
[01:27:13.300 --> 01:27:16.880]  And he said, I was inhabited by the spirit of Donald Trump.
[01:27:17.700 --> 01:27:18.480]  I'm like, what?
[01:27:18.480 --> 01:27:27.460]  So he dragged me up on stage, threw me onto the table up there, and began to exercise the spirit of Donald Trump for me.
[01:27:27.600 --> 01:27:28.740]  He put a towel over my face.
[01:27:28.860 --> 01:27:31.000]  I was waterboarded, or actually breadboarded.
[01:27:31.100 --> 01:27:32.900]  You were breadboarded.
[01:27:32.900 --> 01:27:33.520]  I saw the bread.
[01:27:34.580 --> 01:27:34.960]  Yes.
[01:27:35.140 --> 01:27:35.800]  Well, I didn't.
[01:27:35.840 --> 01:27:37.500]  I just, like, felt the bread going on me.
[01:27:37.540 --> 01:27:40.280]  I think there was a glass involved, a drinking glass.
[01:27:40.280 --> 01:27:46.060]  In any case, when I was thrown upon, thrust upon the table, my phone was in the back pocket.
[01:27:46.140 --> 01:27:47.500]  I had no idea what was going on.
[01:27:47.760 --> 01:27:49.280]  And my phone got smashed.
[01:27:49.640 --> 01:27:52.740]  My phone still works, but I can't see anything.
[01:27:52.780 --> 01:27:55.780]  So I ordered a new LCD and digitizer, which I'll install when I get it.
[01:27:56.060 --> 01:28:09.700]  But I'm talking to you on a cheap Android, an LG Android phone I got in Manhattan, so I could have all my inbound calls forwarded to this temporary number, which I will not give out every day.
[01:28:11.560 --> 01:28:14.660]  Well, yeah, you shouldn't give out any number on the radio.
[01:28:14.780 --> 01:28:16.680]  But, okay, well, that's interesting.
[01:28:17.100 --> 01:28:18.780]  The thing is, you know, we saw that happen.
[01:28:18.780 --> 01:28:21.240]  We were all on stage, and we saw you being breadboarded.
[01:28:21.580 --> 01:28:24.500]  And we're saying, oh, that's a horrible thing, but there's nothing we can do about it.
[01:28:24.520 --> 01:28:25.160]  We can't help him.
[01:28:26.040 --> 01:28:29.620]  But we just assumed that you knew something about what was going to be happening.
[01:28:29.620 --> 01:28:36.120]  And the amazing thing is that you had no idea what Johannes had planned, but you just played along admirably.
[01:28:36.940 --> 01:28:43.220]  Well, he just said, Bernie, I want to be able to see you at the closing ceremony.
[01:28:43.340 --> 01:28:44.480]  Of course, I was going to be there anyway.
[01:28:45.880 --> 01:28:52.740]  And then this amazing situation happened where I started feeling some weird negative energy, and he encouraged me of it.
[01:28:52.740 --> 01:29:00.660]  I felt like, you know, I was at one of those big evangelical faith-healing ceremonies, or faith-healing services.
[01:29:00.960 --> 01:29:02.440]  And, you know, he put his hands on me.
[01:29:03.040 --> 01:29:06.940]  And I felt a lot come out, a lot of tension come out of me.
[01:29:07.080 --> 01:29:10.580]  And I feel much better now that the spirit of Donald Strunk has been drunk.
[01:29:10.980 --> 01:29:11.940]  You don't remember...
[01:29:11.940 --> 01:29:13.200]  Strunk has been exorcised.
[01:29:13.360 --> 01:29:15.220]  You don't remember speaking in tongues or anything?
[01:29:15.480 --> 01:29:16.660]  You don't remember that part?
[01:29:16.780 --> 01:29:17.680]  You know, I might have.
[01:29:17.780 --> 01:29:18.460]  I might have.
[01:29:18.540 --> 01:29:19.040]  I don't know.
[01:29:19.040 --> 01:29:20.360]  I have to see the video.
[01:29:20.480 --> 01:29:21.280]  Yeah, you're going to have to go back.
[01:29:21.280 --> 01:29:21.780]  I don't remember much the video.
[01:29:21.780 --> 01:29:22.620]  You'll have to watch the tape.
[01:29:22.720 --> 01:29:23.820]  The video doesn't lie.
[01:29:24.000 --> 01:29:24.600]  And that's...
[01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:25.960]  We're all going to have to sit through that.
[01:29:25.960 --> 01:29:27.000]  It was successful, though.
[01:29:27.160 --> 01:29:27.920]  It was, yeah.
[01:29:28.800 --> 01:29:31.380]  Maybe he was exorcising him of his Blackberry.
[01:29:31.480 --> 01:29:33.760]  Maybe that's what needed to be gotten rid of.
[01:29:34.040 --> 01:29:35.340]  Anyway, continuing with this letter here.
[01:29:35.500 --> 01:29:39.220]  Also, props to security for getting those morons off the roof without handcuffs.
[01:29:39.900 --> 01:29:40.920]  Thank you for that.
[01:29:41.640 --> 01:29:44.700]  And, you know, I understand why people would want to explore.
[01:29:44.860 --> 01:29:46.860]  I don't want to be too harsh on them.
[01:29:47.660 --> 01:29:53.700]  But for future reference, let's keep that in mind that that's something that goes over the line.
[01:29:53.740 --> 01:29:55.240]  And we can't help you.
[01:29:55.340 --> 01:30:01.080]  We can't help you if you wind up being put into some other entity's custody.
[01:30:01.240 --> 01:30:05.820]  So please, for the sake of the conference, avoid the roof.
[01:30:06.360 --> 01:30:07.180]  And the good.
[01:30:07.520 --> 01:30:08.880]  Smooth transitions between tracks.
[01:30:09.080 --> 01:30:10.900]  One of the most interesting closing ceremonies ever.
[01:30:12.080 --> 01:30:13.620]  Social engineering, naturally.
[01:30:13.920 --> 01:30:16.000]  Club Mate with many exclamation points.
[01:30:16.740 --> 01:30:18.060]  Still saving a bottle.
[01:30:18.200 --> 01:30:19.720]  So hope never really ends.
[01:30:19.800 --> 01:30:20.380]  A full bottle.
[01:30:20.540 --> 01:30:21.560]  Wow, that's commitment.
[01:30:22.520 --> 01:30:23.380]  The Meh.
[01:30:24.240 --> 01:30:25.520]  Phonehenge and RetroTech.
[01:30:25.660 --> 01:30:26.240]  Did I miss them?
[01:30:26.340 --> 01:30:27.340]  I swear I was looking for them.
[01:30:28.220 --> 01:30:30.780]  Well, RetroTech, I know, was only there on the weekends.
[01:30:31.140 --> 01:30:34.260]  So if you're looking on Friday, you did not see old computers.
[01:30:34.400 --> 01:30:38.460]  Although our old Z100 was given back to us at closing ceremonies again.
[01:30:38.740 --> 01:30:39.580]  And it's working.
[01:30:39.740 --> 01:30:42.280]  In fact, we have it doing work for us right now.
[01:30:42.640 --> 01:30:43.280]  Important work.
[01:30:43.400 --> 01:30:44.620]  We can't get into more detail than that.
[01:30:44.820 --> 01:30:51.840]  As for Phonehenge, I guess, you know, this needs to be explained because there's a lot of misunderstanding about what Phonehenge is all about.
[01:30:51.840 --> 01:31:03.160]  Phonehenge was designed as a monument, a series of statues to the history of the telephone in our country.
[01:31:03.540 --> 01:31:09.380]  And we hired an artist to put this together.
[01:31:09.380 --> 01:31:12.260]  It was really an incredible display.
[01:31:12.940 --> 01:31:17.240]  Unfortunately, what happened was I wrote the instructions on a napkin.
[01:31:17.960 --> 01:31:26.960]  And instead of my M's, apparently, I didn't know this at the time, but sometimes my M's look like two M's.
[01:31:27.040 --> 01:31:35.120]  So when I was specifying meters in size of the sculpture, the artist interpreted it as millimeters.
[01:31:35.120 --> 01:31:40.340]  And so you would have had to have looked very carefully to see the sculptures that were there.
[01:31:40.340 --> 01:31:42.580]  And I understand that on the second day, somebody stepped on them.
[01:31:42.740 --> 01:31:44.060]  It's not their fault, I know.
[01:31:44.160 --> 01:31:46.060]  We should have put some kind of fence around it.
[01:31:46.920 --> 01:31:47.740]  We didn't.
[01:31:48.100 --> 01:31:51.600]  So most people probably didn't see the sculpture.
[01:31:51.980 --> 01:31:53.060]  And it's my fault.
[01:31:53.420 --> 01:31:55.060]  I should write neatly.
[01:31:55.780 --> 01:31:56.860]  I've learned my lesson.
[01:31:56.940 --> 01:31:57.620]  I know that now.
[01:31:57.960 --> 01:31:59.940]  And next time, we'll do a better job.
[01:32:00.380 --> 01:32:02.960]  Can I mention one thing that was hotel related?
[01:32:03.180 --> 01:32:03.600]  Yes, please.
[01:32:03.840 --> 01:32:04.260]  That I thought was cool.
[01:32:04.540 --> 01:32:06.360]  They have exhibits now in the hotel.
[01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:16.600]  On one of the floors, they showed a pantry or some kind of room that was used for, I think, the dumbwaiters.
[01:32:16.700 --> 01:32:20.340]  But they made it into an exhibit and refurbished all the fixtures.
[01:32:20.740 --> 01:32:21.420]  I forget what floor.
[01:32:21.460 --> 01:32:22.400]  It might be the fifth floor.
[01:32:22.540 --> 01:32:23.420]  It's some floor.
[01:32:23.560 --> 01:32:25.380]  One of the floors with rooms.
[01:32:25.720 --> 01:32:27.680]  And they had this amazing display.
[01:32:27.920 --> 01:32:28.600]  It was really cool.
[01:32:28.620 --> 01:32:30.060]  It looked like a proper museum.
[01:32:30.060 --> 01:32:32.340]  And they say they're going to do a little bit more of that.
[01:32:32.520 --> 01:32:48.660]  But if there was ever a place to do those kinds of little displays to talk about how this floor or this part of the hotel was used way back when, I think it's just a neat way to kind of revitalize the interest in that space.
[01:32:48.660 --> 01:33:01.080]  And definitely is kind of what we're about as far as archiving and being a part of keeping that place sort of functional and but also appreciating the history.
[01:33:01.080 --> 01:33:05.820]  It's incredible that in 2008 we were looking at the imminent destruction of Hotel Pennsylvania.
[01:33:06.080 --> 01:33:09.460]  And then Bernardo had a change of heart and decided to preserve it instead.
[01:33:09.480 --> 01:33:11.840]  And I think it's really paid off.
[01:33:11.840 --> 01:33:16.180]  And so many people have experienced so much of New York as a result of that.
[01:33:16.580 --> 01:33:26.500]  I really, really hope they do more of that kind of stuff in that hotel so that you have a mix of stuff that's been revitalized with also sort of these kind of interesting displays of the history.
[01:33:26.500 --> 01:33:39.920]  So, yeah, you might be walking your room and all of a sudden you look over and there's sort of something that looks like it's in a time warp, but it's really them kind of showing off what's hidden under some of these nooks and crannies of the hotel.
[01:33:40.080 --> 01:33:44.300]  And maybe that'll satiate people's exploratory appetite.
[01:33:44.840 --> 01:33:52.280]  Well, I understand some some rooms have little secret hatchways to trap doors and things like that from from decades ago.
[01:33:52.280 --> 01:33:54.080]  So it's all very unique.
[01:33:54.580 --> 01:33:55.900]  Anyway, continuing with this.
[01:33:56.300 --> 01:33:57.540]  OK, so the bad.
[01:33:58.120 --> 01:33:59.300]  Deep Web was awesome.
[01:33:59.480 --> 01:34:01.940]  I'm sure Trace Route was equally great, though I didn't get to see it.
[01:34:02.240 --> 01:34:03.700]  But no joy bubbles, Doc.
[01:34:04.180 --> 01:34:06.960]  I've seen Citizen Four, but I'm nitpicking here.
[01:34:07.040 --> 01:34:08.320]  People should get out and make more movies.
[01:34:08.420 --> 01:34:09.240]  So you have more movies to show.
[01:34:09.380 --> 01:34:09.860]  OK, you know what?
[01:34:10.060 --> 01:34:11.140]  That's not on us.
[01:34:11.440 --> 01:34:13.240]  We want to show the joy bubbles film.
[01:34:13.440 --> 01:34:14.320]  It's not done yet.
[01:34:14.440 --> 01:34:14.780]  Right, Bernie?
[01:34:15.800 --> 01:34:16.280]  That's right.
[01:34:16.300 --> 01:34:21.040]  I reached out to the director and she's it's still not a done project.
[01:34:21.040 --> 01:34:22.020]  She's in California.
[01:34:22.340 --> 01:34:24.980]  She didn't want to come out and talk about a film that's not done yet.
[01:34:24.980 --> 01:34:25.860]  I tried to convince her.
[01:34:25.980 --> 01:34:36.000]  But in any case, we're hoping at the 12th hope, there will be a screening of the amazing documentary Joe Bevels about high rise Joe.
[01:34:36.000 --> 01:34:40.480]  Joe and Garcia, one of our favorite veteran film freaks.
[01:34:40.960 --> 01:34:45.240]  OK, so you can't put that on us that we didn't show a film that has not been made yet.
[01:34:45.960 --> 01:34:46.780]  Nice try, though.
[01:34:46.960 --> 01:34:47.820]  OK, how about the ugly?
[01:34:48.160 --> 01:34:50.880]  OK, my one real complaint, the photography policy.
[01:34:51.060 --> 01:34:52.300]  Ah, here, we're getting into something now.
[01:34:52.580 --> 01:35:03.620]  A magazine with covers ridiculing the notion of not being allowed to take photographs and upset that Miramax wouldn't let them film in their lobby inside a hotel with cameras everywhere says no pictures.
[01:35:04.020 --> 01:35:06.780]  I used to love looking at photo galleries from past hopes.
[01:35:06.900 --> 01:35:09.560]  I know you could take pictures as long as you got permission.
[01:35:09.720 --> 01:35:10.480]  But I don't know.
[01:35:10.620 --> 01:35:12.180]  Something about it just really irked me.
[01:35:12.660 --> 01:35:17.120]  To be honest, I thought the policy was a joke and would still think that if it hadn't been reiterated throughout.
[01:35:18.240 --> 01:35:19.360]  You know, it's a fair point.
[01:35:19.380 --> 01:35:22.920]  And I know a lot of people feel strongly on both sides of this issue.
[01:35:22.920 --> 01:35:24.500]  Can I say how I feel about it?
[01:35:24.740 --> 01:35:26.060]  I mean, would it...
[01:35:26.060 --> 01:35:27.920]  I think it's kind of stupid.
[01:35:28.200 --> 01:35:28.640]  OK.
[01:35:28.840 --> 01:35:29.160]  So there.
[01:35:29.380 --> 01:35:46.780]  I think, I mean, the hypersensitivity towards it, I think like being so special that you think you're not going to be in a photograph or that you can somehow get special treatment because you feel you're so important that you shouldn't be in a photograph.
[01:35:47.200 --> 01:35:49.740]  I don't care if someone asks permission or not.
[01:35:49.740 --> 01:35:50.600]  It's going to happen.
[01:35:50.600 --> 01:35:53.520]  That's the de facto part of this.
[01:35:53.720 --> 01:35:58.000]  Like, sure, we all want all kinds of wonderful things to happen to us.
[01:35:58.100 --> 01:36:02.500]  But stuff still happens to you in life, like people taking pictures.
[01:36:02.660 --> 01:36:04.680]  And sometimes you don't have the opportunity to talk to people.
[01:36:04.820 --> 01:36:06.000]  And I go on and on.
[01:36:06.100 --> 01:36:14.980]  But I, you know, I also think that it's definitely worthwhile to outline one or another part of how we feel.
[01:36:15.140 --> 01:36:15.880]  So that's what we did.
[01:36:16.500 --> 01:36:21.920]  Yeah, I mean, I can totally see where the policy came from and the impetus behind it.
[01:36:22.240 --> 01:36:35.700]  At the very first Hope I went to, which was Hope 2K in 2000, there was one attendee, I don't know if you guys, if those of you who are there remember this, but there was one attendee who spent the entire conference in a big hat and the Groucho Marx glasses with the nose and the mustache.
[01:36:36.520 --> 01:36:40.660]  Because, and when asked about this, this, this guy, yeah, Jim's nodding.
[01:36:41.040 --> 01:36:52.900]  This, this guy admitted that, or at least his story was that he had to keep it on because apparently he was violating some form of probation by being there and didn't want to get found out.
[01:36:53.080 --> 01:37:02.900]  And this, this was, you know, 16 years ago before things like photos on social media being regularly scanned and added to facial recognition databases and things of that sort were happening.
[01:37:02.900 --> 01:37:08.260]  So I can respect somebody's, uh, wish to not be photographed if, uh, if they don't feel like it.
[01:37:08.540 --> 01:37:15.680]  Um, at the same time, I, I do feel like Hope is a public event and maybe should be treated more like the public, but I can, I can see both sides of this issue.
[01:37:15.880 --> 01:37:21.080]  And ultimately, anything that makes more people comfortable in coming to Hope, um, I think is worth it.
[01:37:22.680 --> 01:37:27.820]  Yeah, that's, that's definitely kind of like why, why we have to have a clear policy.
[01:37:27.820 --> 01:37:34.720]  And I think it's also, it's not so much that people are able to take photos and that, that they're doing it.
[01:37:34.820 --> 01:37:56.260]  I think it's, it's being obnoxious about where you put that content once it's been captured, like to, to have a photo and to have a camera and, and those tools on you is one thing, but for the, the wide prevalence and, and, um, options for places this media can end up and just the behavior around taking pictures and visa,
[01:37:56.280 --> 01:37:58.840]  like in, in that, like people are a bit obnoxious.
[01:37:59.260 --> 01:38:10.560]  Um, I think that's like really where the problem lies, uh, for the most part and is basically ruined it and made it something where we have to make these kinds of, uh, rules of the road things.
[01:38:11.420 --> 01:38:12.800]  Go ahead, Walter.
[01:38:13.020 --> 01:38:23.240]  Maybe instead of banning photography outright, you could just have, um, the, the, the requirement of getting permission had that be harder to your press, uh, policy.
[01:38:23.260 --> 01:38:25.620]  Well, no, that's, we didn't ban photography at all.
[01:38:25.820 --> 01:38:28.440]  Uh, it's, it's basically, I'll read what the policy says.
[01:38:28.580 --> 01:38:30.340]  Uh, this is from our, our code of conduct.
[01:38:30.500 --> 01:38:35.180]  Anyone press or otherwise taking photos or videos of people at the conference must get consent.
[01:38:35.360 --> 01:38:40.160]  Likewise, if you accidentally take a photo or video and the person asks you to delete it, do so immediately.
[01:38:40.520 --> 01:38:45.040]  If you are taking crowd shots, please announce your intentions to the crowd to allow people to look away.
[01:38:45.600 --> 01:38:47.180]  I mean, it seems fairly reasonable.
[01:38:47.180 --> 01:38:51.540]  I think it's, it's, it's less restrictive than, than policies I've seen in other places.
[01:38:51.940 --> 01:38:59.500]  There are people that, uh, object to being in photographs and they should have the opportunity to not be in photographs, uh, whenever possible.
[01:38:59.560 --> 01:39:06.600]  And obviously at some point they're going to wander into a photograph and, and, uh, it's going to be unavoidable or a surveillance camera or something like that.
[01:39:06.800 --> 01:39:15.680]  Uh, but this is just, you know, to, to make people not feel uncomfortable or that they're being stalked or whatever else might be, uh, going through their mind.
[01:39:15.680 --> 01:39:15.960]  Yeah.
[01:39:16.080 --> 01:39:21.880]  I mean, ultimately it's not difficult to ask somebody permission and it's not difficult to, you know, just be polite with people.
[01:39:22.100 --> 01:39:29.100]  And, you know, in my case, uh, I was asked for a photo, uh, on, on a couple of occasions and that, that in itself started a conversation, which went somewhere else.
[01:39:29.220 --> 01:39:32.020]  And so, you know, it was, it was another way to get to meet people.
[01:39:32.660 --> 01:39:32.940]  Mm-hmm.
[01:39:33.180 --> 01:39:34.000]  Uh, Kyle, one more thing.
[01:39:34.060 --> 01:39:35.300]  I want to take phone calls, so let's...
[01:39:35.300 --> 01:39:35.540]  No, no.
[01:39:35.580 --> 01:39:51.540]  I'm just saying that if I was like covering the event, say for a hacker magazine and, you know, wanted to perhaps take some photos of hackers at perhaps an event maybe that I was involved with, you know, how annoying that would be to walk around and ask every single...
[01:39:51.540 --> 01:39:56.140]  I mean, it would be really, as a journalist, an annoying thing to cover because of that.
[01:39:56.380 --> 01:39:57.440]  Well, you have to get clearance though.
[01:39:57.460 --> 01:40:03.200]  If I couldn't treat it like it was a public space, you'd have, you'd be constantly asking every single person.
[01:40:03.300 --> 01:40:18.060]  You wouldn't be able to get any kind of candid shots, anything of people acting naturally or, or, or you'd be disrupting them by constantly asking people after the fact, oh, by the way, I did this, which basically opens the door for them to control what you do.
[01:40:18.340 --> 01:40:19.700]  And it just, I don't know.
[01:40:19.820 --> 01:40:20.940]  I think it's, it's...
[01:40:20.940 --> 01:40:24.840]  Well, you're speaking as a photographer too, which I think is, you know, adds some weight to this.
[01:40:24.860 --> 01:40:24.860]  Yeah.
[01:40:24.860 --> 01:40:43.220]  And I mean, do you think, I don't know, I'm saying as a 2600 photographer, if I was walking around there, I would be, it would be a difficult, um, to my job as a photographer to cover that event and tell the stories there, but to engage every single person that I feel is photogenic or has,
[01:40:43.340 --> 01:40:52.340]  uh, something visual to tell, um, our audience, I think it would be incredibly, it would be more difficult than shooting on a public street.
[01:40:52.760 --> 01:40:59.920]  If you go up to somebody and point the camera in their face, you generally ask them first, is this okay if I, if I snap your picture individually, right?
[01:41:00.520 --> 01:41:00.960]  Yeah.
[01:41:01.180 --> 01:41:01.320]  Yeah.
[01:41:01.440 --> 01:41:01.800]  Definitely.
[01:41:01.860 --> 01:41:07.380]  You, you would want to break the ice and be personable and, uh, and, and that kind of thing.
[01:41:07.560 --> 01:41:27.520]  But also, but, but to have this policy wielded at you and, um, uh, and then have people treating you as though you're a second class or you're, you're not, you're doing something that you ought not to be, uh, doing, making you feel powerless as a journalist.
[01:41:27.520 --> 01:41:31.840]  I think it, it kind of is a disservice to getting coverage.
[01:41:31.840 --> 01:41:32.420]  Mm-hmm.
[01:41:32.700 --> 01:41:40.560]  Well, you know, it's also something I think that should be addressed as far as, uh, attendees, um, shouldn't feel like, uh, they're on the spot.
[01:41:40.760 --> 01:41:47.300]  If, uh, if, if somebody sees a picture of them at a conference like this, it should be something that you're proud of that.
[01:41:47.440 --> 01:41:47.620]  Okay.
[01:41:47.700 --> 01:41:48.180]  Yeah, I'm there.
[01:41:48.280 --> 01:41:48.760]  Look at me.
[01:41:49.320 --> 01:41:51.000]  Um, so I don't think I agree.
[01:41:51.080 --> 01:42:03.860]  We shouldn't be overly sensitive about our photos, um, getting out there, but I also think that we should have some say in, if a picture of us is displayed all over the place, uh, crowd shots are different.
[01:42:04.020 --> 01:42:08.860]  I think crowd shots, you know, you can't ask everybody in the crowd, um, for that kind of a thing.
[01:42:08.980 --> 01:42:14.980]  But if you're, if you're showing an individual person who's identifiable, doing something, it's, I mean, it's just a polite thing to do.
[01:42:15.480 --> 01:42:15.800]  Yeah.
[01:42:15.880 --> 01:42:24.940]  Ultimately, uh, you know, hope is an event that's been evolving and, uh, these conversations have been happening and, um, yeah, I think, uh, I think we should ask, uh, people to let us know what they thought.
[01:42:25.060 --> 01:42:36.000]  So if you write to feedback at hope.net with, uh, with these letters, with what you thought, not only of the conference, but of, uh, steps we've taken, like, like this, like the photo policy, like the press policy, uh, like the code of conduct, things like that,
[01:42:36.060 --> 01:42:41.480]  because these are all things that, uh, that we've, uh, that, that have come to pass just, uh, as, as needed.
[01:42:41.660 --> 01:42:43.360]  And I think, uh, we're always open to improvement.
[01:42:43.620 --> 01:42:44.300]  There are works in progress.
[01:42:44.420 --> 01:42:44.900]  Yeah, definitely.
[01:42:44.900 --> 01:42:50.020]  There are something that comes with the times, like, like what is going on right now?
[01:42:50.180 --> 01:42:57.600]  And definitely the pressures around journalism and photography at the moment are, are pushing it in this direction where we need to be explicit.
[01:42:57.980 --> 01:42:59.500]  So it's a work in progress.
[01:42:59.640 --> 01:43:00.660]  Please tell us what you think.
[01:43:00.780 --> 01:43:01.800]  And, and if you have ideas.
[01:43:02.020 --> 01:43:02.800]  And thanks for the feedback.
[01:43:02.980 --> 01:43:03.020]  Yeah.
[01:43:03.100 --> 01:43:05.740]  Cause we want to, we want to have these discussions and Scream of Chaotix.
[01:43:05.860 --> 01:43:06.660]  Thanks for writing that.
[01:43:06.860 --> 01:43:14.160]  Um, uh, and we have many more to read as well, but we want to try and take phone calls now because, uh, we did promise to do that or at least try to do that.
[01:43:14.260 --> 01:43:17.800]  Anyway, we have no phone here, the radio station, which is obscene.
[01:43:17.940 --> 01:43:20.020]  As far as I'm concerned, we, we need to fix that.
[01:43:20.440 --> 01:43:25.280]  Uh, and it's just one of the things that, uh, that has been, uh, um, frustrating for us.
[01:43:25.700 --> 01:43:28.760]  Uh, so, um, we're going to give out the phone number.
[01:43:28.900 --> 01:43:29.920]  Now Kyle, you set this up.
[01:43:30.040 --> 01:43:33.560]  You want to, I, I brought all the wires that worked the last time we did this.
[01:43:33.720 --> 01:43:35.240]  So hopefully it'll work the same way.
[01:43:35.380 --> 01:43:35.660]  Okay.
[01:43:35.800 --> 01:43:43.700]  And it's this, it's this little, uh, slider over here that, uh, yeah, as long as everything is otherwise normal over there.
[01:43:44.080 --> 01:43:51.640]  Uh, so, uh, the phone number that I have here, uh, is, uh, area code three, three, one, I'm not sure where that is.
[01:43:51.780 --> 01:43:53.820]  It doesn't matter because areas don't mean anything anymore.
[01:43:54.180 --> 01:43:56.960]  Three, three, one, two, two, three WBAI.
[01:43:57.240 --> 01:44:05.880]  So if you call that line three, three, one, two, two, three, nine, two, two, four, um, I believe a phone will ring and we'll be able to pick it up.
[01:44:06.160 --> 01:44:08.580]  Uh, so let's see if that happens.
[01:44:08.920 --> 01:44:19.180]  Um, and if, uh, you have something to say about the hope conference or about WBAI, uh, please call that number and, and, uh, hopefully, um, hopefully it'll work.
[01:44:19.180 --> 01:44:29.220]  Uh, this is through the magic of, um, of Google voice, I believe, and, and other, uh, technologies that are, are working to serve us better.
[01:44:29.640 --> 01:44:32.240]  Um, and I'm not seeing a call come in.
[01:44:32.320 --> 01:44:33.160]  So, oh, there's one.
[01:44:33.240 --> 01:44:33.440]  Okay.
[01:44:33.900 --> 01:44:36.500]  Here's a call from the 914 area code.
[01:44:36.640 --> 01:44:36.780]  Yes.
[01:44:36.860 --> 01:44:38.200]  You might want to block your phone numbers too.
[01:44:38.700 --> 01:44:39.680]  Uh, let's see if this works.
[01:44:39.900 --> 01:44:42.020]  Uh, hello, you're on WBAI.
[01:44:42.140 --> 01:44:42.720]  Can you hear us?
[01:44:45.380 --> 01:44:46.600]  I'm not hearing anything, Kyle.
[01:44:47.540 --> 01:44:50.980]  Um, any knobs you want to, uh, try and fiddle with?
[01:44:51.240 --> 01:44:55.340]  Please, uh, stay on, stay on the, uh, on the line caller while we try and work this out.
[01:44:55.560 --> 01:44:58.760]  Uh, maybe a different button to press.
[01:45:00.520 --> 01:45:01.360]  That's over there.
[01:45:01.600 --> 01:45:01.800]  Okay.
[01:45:01.800 --> 01:45:01.880]  Okay.
[01:45:03.900 --> 01:45:04.300]  No?
[01:45:05.700 --> 01:45:06.100]  Hmm.
[01:45:06.440 --> 01:45:10.900]  I guess we, uh, well, we, there's no opportunity to test this, unfortunately, because there are live programs in here.
[01:45:11.420 --> 01:45:13.960]  Um, okay, well, we lost that call.
[01:45:14.140 --> 01:45:14.420]  I'm sorry.
[01:45:14.700 --> 01:45:16.700]  Um, so maybe we can't do this.
[01:45:17.080 --> 01:45:19.920]  Um, all right, well, we'll, we'll keep trying.
[01:45:20.100 --> 01:45:24.120]  We'll keep trying and see if we can figure out how to, uh, how to take calls.
[01:45:24.760 --> 01:45:27.060]  Um, what, what, what do you think, Kyle?
[01:45:27.600 --> 01:45:29.720]  Do you think you know what the problem is or is it something that, uh?
[01:45:30.180 --> 01:45:30.500]  No.
[01:45:30.760 --> 01:45:31.600]  You don't know what the problem is.
[01:45:32.120 --> 01:45:32.480]  Okay.
[01:45:32.500 --> 01:45:33.560]  Well, so much for that.
[01:45:33.760 --> 01:45:35.240]  It didn't work out very well.
[01:45:35.980 --> 01:45:38.980]  Um, Bernie, any thoughts from you while we try and kill time here?
[01:45:40.000 --> 01:45:49.800]  Well, I hope Kyle can get this working, but I do think that, uh, we want to get as much feedback as we possibly can from, uh, uh, the people that attended Hope or people that couldn't attend Hope.
[01:45:49.800 --> 01:45:53.740]  And that email address again is feedback at hope.net.
[01:45:54.040 --> 01:46:03.820]  And I wanted to ask Rob if he got, uh, Eddie Lamar's permission to put her picture, take her picture, and put it, uh, outside of the big, big, uh, presentation room.
[01:46:04.420 --> 01:46:09.700]  No, um, the, the, the images of the people we named the rooms after were all original illustrations by me.
[01:46:09.840 --> 01:46:13.820]  And they'll be posted online in about a week or so, freely licensed in case anyone wants to play with them.
[01:46:14.740 --> 01:46:15.140]  Yeah.
[01:46:15.340 --> 01:46:15.780]  Great picture.
[01:46:15.940 --> 01:46:16.600]  I want to thank you.
[01:46:16.700 --> 01:46:19.580]  Rob, uh, uh, put together the signs for the conference.
[01:46:19.800 --> 01:46:25.620]  And, uh, and, uh, you know, we might as well mention, uh, who the rooms were named after cause we alluded to that earlier.
[01:46:25.980 --> 01:46:33.900]  Uh, and, uh, I know Hoover was one of the rooms that was named after, uh, Erna Hoover, by the way, uh, not the Hoover vacuum people.
[01:46:34.340 --> 01:46:43.120]  Uh, and, um, she's a mathematician who revolutionized modern communication with her invention of a computerized telephone switching method.
[01:46:43.340 --> 01:46:49.240]  In fact, all of our rooms were named after influential women in the world of technology, which I thought was pretty, pretty awesome right there.
[01:46:49.240 --> 01:46:55.340]  Uh, we had, uh, Hedy Lamarr, uh, Emmy, uh, Nother, I believe is how you pronounce that.
[01:46:55.640 --> 01:46:57.540]  Uh, and, uh, Elizabeth Friedman.
[01:46:57.940 --> 01:47:03.100]  So, uh, those, those were the four names that, uh, that we have rooms named after.
[01:47:03.420 --> 01:47:04.520]  All right, Kyle, what's the verdict?
[01:47:04.640 --> 01:47:07.100]  Do you think we should keep trying this or, uh, is it hopeless?
[01:47:07.840 --> 01:47:09.280]  Oh, nothing's hopeless, of course.
[01:47:09.280 --> 01:47:10.480]  Well, we've gotten this to work before.
[01:47:10.480 --> 01:47:11.620]  I don't know why it wouldn't work now.
[01:47:11.940 --> 01:47:12.660]  Uh, yeah.
[01:47:12.780 --> 01:47:14.220]  Is it possibly a setting on this phone here?
[01:47:14.420 --> 01:47:20.920]  Well, I mean, I could switch this to over here, but I don't, I don't really think that's the problem.
[01:47:21.220 --> 01:47:21.460]  Uh-huh.
[01:47:22.360 --> 01:47:22.720]  Um.
[01:47:23.400 --> 01:47:25.560]  Anything could be the problem, believe me.
[01:47:25.760 --> 01:47:29.400]  Well, look, it was in the same configuration it was wire.
[01:47:30.600 --> 01:47:33.300]  Uh, the, the wires were last time, so.
[01:47:33.600 --> 01:47:33.960]  Uh-huh.
[01:47:34.300 --> 01:47:36.060]  Well, the phone's ringing now, as you can hear.
[01:47:36.280 --> 01:47:37.640]  This is the ringtone for the phone.
[01:47:38.300 --> 01:47:41.460]  Um, should I even bother trying to pick this up or this work?
[01:47:41.500 --> 01:47:43.360]  Sure, yeah, try it, try it now.
[01:47:43.520 --> 01:47:44.080]  Maybe it'll work.
[01:47:44.240 --> 01:47:44.420]  Okay.
[01:47:44.760 --> 01:47:46.240]  Is anybody on the line?
[01:47:49.340 --> 01:47:50.320]  Should I be hanging this?
[01:47:50.440 --> 01:47:52.220]  No, that's the speaker button on here, right?
[01:47:52.780 --> 01:47:57.440]  Yeah, that's, uh, and it's not any of these buttons or anything there?
[01:47:57.700 --> 01:47:58.740]  Could be one of those.
[01:47:58.740 --> 01:48:01.720]  No, those, it, it's the car channel, so that was working.
[01:48:02.520 --> 01:48:02.820]  Uh-huh.
[01:48:03.200 --> 01:48:07.300]  Yeah, this, um, this is what happens when you don't pay the phone bill, folks, unfortunately.
[01:48:07.580 --> 01:48:08.260]  I'm, I'm sorry.
[01:48:08.860 --> 01:48:10.860]  Uh, well, we tried our best.
[01:48:11.060 --> 01:48:13.280]  Sometimes it doesn't work, as we've proven many times.
[01:48:14.080 --> 01:48:17.360]  Um, what, do you want me to hold the phone up to the microphone?
[01:48:17.420 --> 01:48:18.620]  Yeah, we could do that, I guess.
[01:48:19.360 --> 01:48:20.080]  It's ridiculous.
[01:48:20.340 --> 01:48:25.400]  All right, folks, call that number, and what we'll do is we'll just, uh, we'll...
[01:48:25.400 --> 01:48:27.780]  Wait, that, that was making some kind of sense.
[01:48:27.780 --> 01:48:28.960]  That was making noise, yeah.
[01:48:29.260 --> 01:48:29.340]  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:48:29.340 --> 01:48:29.960]  Do that again.
[01:48:30.260 --> 01:48:30.720]  Wait a minute.
[01:48:31.080 --> 01:48:31.360]  That's...
[01:48:31.360 --> 01:48:32.540]  Oh, we have a bad connector?
[01:48:32.660 --> 01:48:33.360]  Is that what this is?
[01:48:33.600 --> 01:48:35.080]  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[01:48:35.760 --> 01:48:36.080]  Okay.
[01:48:36.160 --> 01:48:36.940]  That sounds so weird.
[01:48:37.680 --> 01:48:39.240]  Yeah, why is it doing that?
[01:48:39.680 --> 01:48:42.360]  Um, I don't know what it's affecting here.
[01:48:42.480 --> 01:48:44.660]  Take my, take my phone and just make it work, please.
[01:48:44.660 --> 01:48:46.260]  I'm turning that down because that's annoying.
[01:48:46.520 --> 01:48:46.740]  Okay.
[01:48:47.240 --> 01:48:47.600]  Okay.
[01:48:47.600 --> 01:48:52.400]  Um, okay, the, um, the phone number again, 331, I don't have the number in front of me.
[01:48:53.440 --> 01:48:55.440]  Um, I don't think any of you wrote it down, did you?
[01:48:56.820 --> 01:48:57.520]  We did not.
[01:48:57.660 --> 01:49:01.440]  Okay, we're going to, um, we're gonna try and take this call here.
[01:49:01.440 --> 01:49:02.220]  It's not gonna work.
[01:49:02.460 --> 01:49:03.280]  It's not gonna work.
[01:49:03.400 --> 01:49:05.200]  Well, with that kind of attitude, it's definitely not gonna work.
[01:49:05.200 --> 01:49:05.500]  It'll never work.
[01:49:07.740 --> 01:49:13.900]  Okay, well, um, this is a call from the new 929 area code, which, uh, is, is local to here.
[01:49:14.220 --> 01:49:15.560]  Uh, is anybody there?
[01:49:17.360 --> 01:49:18.260]  Speak up, please.
[01:49:20.120 --> 01:49:22.520]  Yeah, we, we get static now, but we're not getting...
[01:49:22.920 --> 01:49:23.360]  Caller?
[01:49:23.560 --> 01:49:24.920]  Hey, we're getting a call from Sweden.
[01:49:24.920 --> 01:49:25.760]  That's kind of cool.
[01:49:26.060 --> 01:49:30.080]  Uh, but, but we can't seem to hear.
[01:49:30.720 --> 01:49:33.780]  Um, I'm sorry, folks, I'm, uh...
[01:49:33.780 --> 01:49:34.740]  We, we did try.
[01:49:34.740 --> 01:49:35.600]  Yeah, we did try.
[01:49:35.680 --> 01:49:36.260]  We did our best.
[01:49:36.940 --> 01:49:37.600]  Uh, you know what?
[01:49:37.660 --> 01:49:38.120]  Next time.
[01:49:38.220 --> 01:49:38.820]  Next time, we'll try.
[01:49:38.900 --> 01:49:41.560]  Or maybe next time, they'll pay the phone bill, and we can actually take phone calls.
[01:49:41.920 --> 01:49:43.600]  Um, this is part of the hacker world.
[01:49:43.700 --> 01:49:44.820]  It's, it's sloppy sometimes.
[01:49:44.840 --> 01:49:45.520]  It's messy.
[01:49:45.900 --> 01:49:47.200]  Uh, what are you gonna do?
[01:49:47.820 --> 01:49:48.980]  Uh, Bernie, are you still with us?
[01:49:51.100 --> 01:49:52.140]  Oh, what, we lost Bernie?
[01:49:53.460 --> 01:49:55.940]  Did we temporarily lose him in the garage again, or...?
[01:49:55.940 --> 01:49:57.560]  Did we press a button that we shouldn't have pressed?
[01:49:58.240 --> 01:49:59.740]  No, none of those are Bernie buttons.
[01:50:00.620 --> 01:50:01.820]  Um, is that...
[01:50:01.820 --> 01:50:02.820]  Bernie, are you there?
[01:50:03.140 --> 01:50:04.000]  No, he's not there.
[01:50:04.120 --> 01:50:04.500]  He's gone.
[01:50:06.140 --> 01:50:09.400]  Okay, well, um, maybe you could try and get Bernie back.
[01:50:09.580 --> 01:50:15.300]  Since apparently he either, um, is, is doing something else and isn't listening to us.
[01:50:15.540 --> 01:50:17.080]  Or, uh, we lost the connection.
[01:50:18.580 --> 01:50:19.060]  Right.
[01:50:19.060 --> 01:50:26.060]  Anyway, you can write to us, OTH at 2600.com, uh, as, as we spiral out of control here.
[01:50:26.200 --> 01:50:31.760]  Uh, you can also call, uh, to prevent these kinds of, uh, of spectacular failures on the air.
[01:50:32.380 --> 01:50:40.240]  Um, call 516-620-3602 and, uh, pledge whatever you can afford to make things better here.
[01:50:40.900 --> 01:50:43.060]  Um, 516-620-3602.
[01:50:44.120 --> 01:50:45.340]  Oh, and the phone is ringing.
[01:50:45.500 --> 01:50:46.040]  I can hear it.
[01:50:46.360 --> 01:50:46.940]  That's Bernie.
[01:50:47.080 --> 01:50:47.320]  All right.
[01:50:48.920 --> 01:50:50.340]  Well, let's see if it picks up.
[01:50:52.660 --> 01:50:54.220]  The fact that it's ringing...
[01:50:55.420 --> 01:50:58.680]  ...tells me that, uh, he must have hung up, right?
[01:50:58.920 --> 01:50:59.280]  Because...
[01:50:59.280 --> 01:50:59.500]  Hello?
[01:50:59.800 --> 01:51:00.460]  Ah, there you are.
[01:51:00.700 --> 01:51:01.940]  Bernie, did you forget, uh...
[01:51:03.260 --> 01:51:06.500]  I'm sure I didn't know what happened.
[01:51:06.500 --> 01:51:08.600]  ...to you, I mean, uh, you were a witness.
[01:51:08.600 --> 01:51:11.020]  I know, I was holding, and then I, uh, then I was, I heard nothing.
[01:51:11.160 --> 01:51:12.200]  So I guess I lost you.
[01:51:12.360 --> 01:51:13.160]  All right, all right.
[01:51:13.300 --> 01:51:15.700]  Well, um, we're glad we got you back.
[01:51:15.980 --> 01:51:19.240]  Uh, and we're running out of time, and we're not able to get the phone to work.
[01:51:19.880 --> 01:51:20.520]  Uh, so...
[01:51:20.520 --> 01:51:21.080]  No, no callers.
[01:51:21.240 --> 01:51:22.760]  Well, no, we have plenty of callers.
[01:51:22.860 --> 01:51:26.880]  Now we have all these people who are angry at us because we couldn't talk to them on the air, but, uh, let's just...
[01:51:26.880 --> 01:51:34.180]  Right, you know, you would think that a community radio station would have a facility to accept calls from the community, so they could be part of the community.
[01:51:34.180 --> 01:51:35.320]  But, you know.
[01:51:36.840 --> 01:51:38.500]  Well, you would think a lot of things, yeah.
[01:51:38.680 --> 01:51:41.480]  Um, but, um, sometimes it doesn't go quite as planned.
[01:51:41.920 --> 01:51:43.160]  Um, all right.
[01:51:43.240 --> 01:51:55.220]  So let's look at some other, uh, bits of feedback and, uh, get people to call 516-620-3602 and support this place and, and, and hopefully, uh, get some improvements, uh, coming our way.
[01:51:55.620 --> 01:51:59.960]  Uh, here's another bit, uh, from...
[01:51:59.960 --> 01:52:00.560]  Let's see.
[01:52:00.780 --> 01:52:03.640]  This person is named, uh...
[01:52:03.640 --> 01:52:04.580]  I don't know how to pronounce this either.
[01:52:04.760 --> 01:52:05.140]  Scoobs?
[01:52:05.900 --> 01:52:07.360]  Uh, or Scoob-BS?
[01:52:07.700 --> 01:52:08.620]  I, I don't even know.
[01:52:09.260 --> 01:52:11.600]  Um, thank you guys so much for a great HOPE conference.
[01:52:11.840 --> 01:52:15.400]  Uh, my cousin came with me, her first HOPE, and she had a great time.
[01:52:15.860 --> 01:52:19.140]  Uh, the best part was, of course, hackers got talent.
[01:52:19.320 --> 01:52:19.660]  Oh, boy.
[01:52:19.900 --> 01:52:21.320]  We didn't even mention that.
[01:52:21.800 --> 01:52:24.180]  Uh, that was crazy, but so much fun.
[01:52:24.300 --> 01:52:25.300]  Definitely keep that tradition.
[01:52:25.840 --> 01:52:41.560]  Uh, this is a tradition we just started, and if we seemed a little, um, uh, confused and baffled, it's because we basically didn't know what we were going to do with, uh, this, this new tradition we were just starting, where we ask hackers to come on stage and demonstrate a talent of one sort or another,
[01:52:41.760 --> 01:52:49.160]  and then we figure out a way to judge them and give somebody, uh, an amazing prize, which in this case was a gift basket for Mr. Robot.
[01:52:49.600 --> 01:52:52.040]  Uh, and it just, I don't know.
[01:52:52.200 --> 01:52:55.440]  Rob, you were on stage with me as one of the, the judges.
[01:52:55.860 --> 01:52:56.120]  Mm-hmm.
[01:52:56.380 --> 01:52:58.540]  And, um, I don't know.
[01:52:58.600 --> 01:53:02.480]  We talked beforehand, like five minutes beforehand, saying, how is this going to work?
[01:53:02.480 --> 01:53:03.460]  What are we going to do exactly?
[01:53:03.960 --> 01:53:07.660]  Uh, we have these people who have signed up to demonstrate some kind of, uh, a talent.
[01:53:07.780 --> 01:53:08.360]  We had a comedian.
[01:53:08.580 --> 01:53:11.800]  We had, uh, a couple of people who, uh, who did Rubik's Cubes.
[01:53:12.000 --> 01:53:16.160]  Uh, we had, uh, singers, all kinds of, uh, a variety.
[01:53:16.820 --> 01:53:20.060]  Um, but we didn't know how it was going to go.
[01:53:20.080 --> 01:53:21.340]  We had no idea.
[01:53:21.800 --> 01:53:27.560]  Uh, so we were just sort of on stage and, and, and a little afraid, I think.
[01:53:27.860 --> 01:53:28.220]  Yeah.
[01:53:28.360 --> 01:53:34.120]  But, uh, but a good kind of afraid because we were, we were trying something new and something interesting and something non-standard.
[01:53:34.260 --> 01:53:36.640]  And I think we started something off really special.
[01:53:36.760 --> 01:53:38.380]  I mean, it was emceed by our friend, Jason Scott.
[01:53:38.640 --> 01:53:38.960]  Yes.
[01:53:39.140 --> 01:53:41.840]  Um, you and I and our friend aesthetics were the judges.
[01:53:42.320 --> 01:53:46.260]  And, um, yeah, none of us were quite sure if this would, uh, if this would go over well.
[01:53:46.280 --> 01:53:47.280]  At all, if it would flop.
[01:53:47.540 --> 01:53:51.300]  But I, I think, uh, I think it ended more wonderfully than any of us ever could have planned.
[01:53:51.460 --> 01:53:52.220]  Yeah, it did not flop.
[01:53:52.500 --> 01:53:53.520]  It definitely did not flop.
[01:53:53.840 --> 01:53:54.040]  It did not.
[01:53:54.040 --> 01:53:58.660]  It, it, it grew so fast and got to be such a thing that, uh, it was almost frightening.
[01:53:59.040 --> 01:54:00.320]  Uh, it grew like a virus.
[01:54:00.420 --> 01:54:00.880]  It really did.
[01:54:01.020 --> 01:54:03.460]  And yeah, in the end, well, let me, let me read part of this letter.
[01:54:03.460 --> 01:54:09.880]  Um, the guy, uh, you had burning the DVDs came in and was filming the dancing girl with his phone or something.
[01:54:10.260 --> 01:54:24.160]  Uh, yeah, because, um, uh, somebody came in and just started disco dancing and, uh, our, our, our AV team was right on top of that and, and were able to, uh, to create a, a disco on the spot, flashing lights and music and everything.
[01:54:24.160 --> 01:54:27.760]  I believe it was, it was manually produced or it wasn't an automatic thing.
[01:54:28.360 --> 01:54:28.600]  Yes.
[01:54:28.900 --> 01:54:34.000]  By hand, hand crafted raving, but by the hand of chaos, no less.
[01:54:34.160 --> 01:54:34.500]  Wow.
[01:54:34.780 --> 01:54:37.660]  Uh, and, and, and that happened and it, it didn't stop.
[01:54:37.760 --> 01:54:39.160]  And yes, we do have it on film.
[01:54:39.660 --> 01:54:40.460]  We have that.
[01:54:40.560 --> 01:54:40.920]  I saw it.
[01:54:40.980 --> 01:54:46.840]  I saw it the other day and, uh, it's just, uh, a flash disco just broke out in the, in the middle of it all.
[01:54:47.140 --> 01:54:51.820]  Uh, so yeah, um, I want to see the part where Jason Scott joined in and was dancing too.
[01:54:51.900 --> 01:54:52.560]  I don't know if we have that.
[01:54:52.560 --> 01:54:54.620]  I think we, we might, uh, that was, that was pretty great.
[01:54:54.820 --> 01:54:57.060]  As for other things we love, the Segway was a lot of fun.
[01:54:57.140 --> 01:54:58.540]  We both tried it and enjoyed it.
[01:54:58.660 --> 01:55:09.880]  Uh, the talks were great, especially the groundbreaking talks like torrenting a pharmaceutical drug, uh, link NYC, uh, the updated Steve Rombaum talk, the tool guys, women in cybersecurity, so many others.
[01:55:10.200 --> 01:55:12.660]  Uh, we were a little disappointed with the car hacking talk.
[01:55:12.800 --> 01:55:14.160]  It was very technical and dry.
[01:55:14.380 --> 01:55:21.240]  Uh, it would've been better if there was more of an intro talk and, and then this talk would be more like an advanced car hacking or nitty gritty of car hacking type of thing.
[01:55:21.240 --> 01:55:23.680]  Well, each their own, you know, some people like it, some people don't.
[01:55:24.040 --> 01:55:26.340]  Um, I'd like to see more drones and robots.
[01:55:26.660 --> 01:55:27.580]  Those are always fun.
[01:55:27.960 --> 01:55:29.780]  Do we want more drones and robots attending?
[01:55:30.100 --> 01:55:31.300]  They have to buy tickets.
[01:55:31.860 --> 01:55:34.180]  Uh, wearable technology talks about wearables.
[01:55:34.520 --> 01:55:38.980]  Uh, it seemed like there were more vintage computers and, and phones, uh, out last time.
[01:55:38.980 --> 01:55:42.700]  Or maybe it was just that they were organized in more of a way that they were out and people could come play with them.
[01:55:43.080 --> 01:55:48.240]  Uh, so somebody else didn't, didn't really see, uh, retro computing and old stuff, but it was there.
[01:55:48.360 --> 01:55:48.840]  It really was.
[01:55:49.000 --> 01:55:51.940]  Uh, we watched Mitch Altman's, uh, workshop on Arduinos.
[01:55:52.300 --> 01:55:55.660]  Uh, it was too much theory of electronics for my cousin, but I enjoyed it.
[01:55:55.980 --> 01:56:03.460]  Uh, maybe have him give an actual workshop that is an intro to electronics or something first, and then people can join in for the Arduino part afterwards.
[01:56:03.460 --> 01:56:05.380]  Yeah, let's, let's make Mitch do more.
[01:56:05.520 --> 01:56:07.500]  I think that's, that's what we should be doing.
[01:56:07.520 --> 01:56:07.880]  Absolutely.
[01:56:08.520 --> 01:56:14.280]  Um, a lot of people seem to, uh, not be paying attention after a while, just playing with the kit that they had bought, but he is great as ever.
[01:56:14.500 --> 01:56:15.940]  Uh, the badges were cool.
[01:56:16.060 --> 01:56:18.160]  We liked that there was a contest with the lanyards.
[01:56:18.240 --> 01:56:21.020]  However, we still don't know what the answer was to the contest or who won.
[01:56:21.340 --> 01:56:25.340]  Actually, uh, that contest was over three minutes after the, after the doors opened.
[01:56:25.660 --> 01:56:27.640]  Uh, a bunch of people emailed us.
[01:56:27.760 --> 01:56:29.280]  I don't have the answer in front of me.
[01:56:29.460 --> 01:56:30.440]  Uh, Bernie, do you have the answer?
[01:56:32.200 --> 01:56:33.480]  Did we lose Bernie again?
[01:56:33.540 --> 01:56:33.840]  I don't know.
[01:56:33.920 --> 01:56:34.480]  I don't know.
[01:56:34.480 --> 01:56:35.880]  I don't know what the answer was.
[01:56:36.020 --> 01:56:36.300]  Okay.
[01:56:36.800 --> 01:56:39.700]  Um, but it was, uh, I understand it was very puzzling.
[01:56:40.660 --> 01:56:41.380]  Yeah, it was.
[01:56:41.380 --> 01:56:42.280]  It involved lanyards.
[01:56:42.460 --> 01:56:44.140]  And you know, we will put this on the website.
[01:56:44.320 --> 01:56:49.160]  Somebody, somebody will, uh, will, will figure it out or figure out how to post it anyway.
[01:56:49.360 --> 01:56:51.020]  That's more of a puzzle than actually solving it.
[01:56:51.600 --> 01:56:56.200]  Um, I think it would have been good if there was a set time when the winners would be announced and the result would be revealed.
[01:56:56.420 --> 01:56:57.840]  Well, didn't he reveal the closing ceremonies?
[01:56:57.940 --> 01:56:58.440]  I think he did.
[01:56:58.580 --> 01:56:58.820]  Yeah.
[01:56:58.820 --> 01:56:59.340]  All right.
[01:56:59.440 --> 01:57:03.860]  So if you watch the closing ceremonies, you'll see the, uh, you'll see the answer there.
[01:57:04.000 --> 01:57:09.760]  Uh, similar to when the electronic badges were used four years ago, you could hack your badge to make, uh, make it do cool things.
[01:57:09.860 --> 01:57:11.800]  And the badges were used to track people as they walked around.
[01:57:12.000 --> 01:57:12.800]  That was awesome.
[01:57:12.900 --> 01:57:13.700]  The interactive badges.
[01:57:13.760 --> 01:57:18.300]  And they had a website where you could do other things with the badge as well as a specific talk related to them and hacking them.
[01:57:18.300 --> 01:57:19.680]  I'm not sure where that was going.
[01:57:19.980 --> 01:57:29.320]  Well, yeah, that's always really popular, but that takes a lot of planning and, uh, it perennially comes up as a project of hope and it may be something we do in the future again.
[01:57:29.580 --> 01:57:30.280]  Uh, we'll see.
[01:57:30.720 --> 01:57:38.600]  Um, but, uh, it's, it's, uh, partly, um, a creative effort, but it's mostly that we like to keep things different.
[01:57:38.600 --> 01:57:40.620]  We always come up with something unique.
[01:57:41.360 --> 01:57:43.840]  We try to, we, we, we always try to.
[01:57:44.120 --> 01:57:49.340]  And, uh, with the diverse group of people who show up, it's not hard.
[01:57:49.460 --> 01:57:49.940]  It really isn't.
[01:57:49.940 --> 01:57:50.860]  It takes care of itself.
[01:57:51.260 --> 01:57:52.260]  Um, okay.
[01:57:52.320 --> 01:57:53.180]  We're out of time.
[01:57:53.440 --> 01:57:56.720]  Uh, again, please call the pledge line 516-620-3602.
[01:57:57.500 --> 01:58:03.460]  Keep WBAI going so that we can continue to do shows like this and talk to all kinds of interesting people like we always do.
[01:58:03.560 --> 01:58:04.940]  And Rob, I think you have something to tell us.
[01:58:05.000 --> 01:58:05.180]  Yes.
[01:58:05.260 --> 01:58:08.420]  Talking of diverse groups, uh, check out your local 2600 meeting this Friday.
[01:58:08.900 --> 01:58:10.240]  2600.com slash meetings.
[01:58:10.540 --> 01:58:12.540]  Is it really the first Friday of the month?
[01:58:12.720 --> 01:58:13.000]  It is.
[01:58:13.160 --> 01:58:13.380]  Wow.
[01:58:13.520 --> 01:58:13.740]  Okay.
[01:58:14.280 --> 01:58:19.780]  Well then, uh, check out, uh, www.2600.com slash meetings.
[01:58:19.960 --> 01:58:21.060]  See if there's a meeting near you.
[01:58:21.440 --> 01:58:22.280]  We'll see you next week.
[01:58:22.400 --> 01:58:22.520]  Good night.
[01:58:22.640 --> 01:58:26.260]  The size of 63 violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be.
[01:58:26.500 --> 01:58:28.640]  We know things are bad, worse than bad.
[01:58:29.200 --> 01:58:29.900]  They're crazy.
[01:58:30.120 --> 01:58:31.940]  It's like everything everywhere is going crazy.
[01:58:31.940 --> 01:58:33.040]  So we don't go out anymore.
[01:58:33.280 --> 01:58:36.580]  We sit in the house and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller.
[01:58:36.580 --> 01:58:40.220]  And all we say is, please, at least leave us alone in our living room.
[01:58:40.320 --> 01:58:43.780]  Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radios.
[01:58:43.800 --> 01:58:44.660]  And I won't say anything.
[01:58:44.880 --> 01:58:45.680]  Just leave us alone.
[01:58:46.140 --> 01:58:47.540]  I want you to get mad.
[01:58:54.000 --> 01:58:55.080]  I don't want you to protest.
[01:58:55.360 --> 01:58:56.520]  I don't want you to ride.
[01:58:56.520 --> 01:58:59.580]  I don't want you to ride to your congressman because I wouldn't know what to tell you to ride.
[01:59:00.100 --> 01:59:03.960]  I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflations and the crime in the street.
[01:59:03.960 --> 01:59:07.600]  All I know is that first, you've got to get mad!
[01:59:08.320 --> 01:59:10.400]  You've got to say, I'm a human being!
[01:59:11.300 --> 01:59:11.780]  Goddammit!
[01:59:12.820 --> 01:59:14.200]  My life has value!
[01:59:16.480 --> 01:59:19.220]  I want you to get up now.
[01:59:21.740 --> 01:59:24.240]  I want all of you to get up out of your chairs.
[01:59:25.140 --> 01:59:36.020]  I want you to get up right now, and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell, I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!
[01:59:36.740 --> 01:59:38.580]  I want you to get up right now.
[01:59:39.140 --> 01:59:46.400]  Get up, go to your windows, open them, and stick your head out and yell, I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!
[02:00:15.920 --> 02:00:19.740]  So if you want the truth, go to your gurus!
[02:00:21.020 --> 02:00:22.120]  Go to yourselves!
[02:00:22.920 --> 02:00:25.960]  Because that's the only place you're ever going to find any real truth!
[02:00:26.680 --> 02:00:28.600]  You're never going to get any truth from us!
[02:00:30.240 --> 02:00:33.180]  We'll tell you anything you want to hear, we lie like hell!
[02:00:33.320 --> 02:00:41.780]  We'll tell you that Kojak always gets the killer, and that no matter how much trouble the hero is in, don't worry, just look at your watch, at the end of the hour, he's going to win!
[02:00:42.260 --> 02:00:44.680]  We'll tell you anything you want to hear!
[02:01:50.350 --> 02:01:52.350]  We do it in illusions, man!
[02:01:52.490 --> 02:01:53.590]  None of it is true!
[02:01:54.710 --> 02:02:01.610]  But you people sit there, day after day, night after night, full ages, colors, creed...
[02:02:02.670 --> 02:02:03.970]  We're all you know!
[02:02:04.750 --> 02:02:07.810]  You're beginning to believe the illusions we're spinning here!
[02:02:08.070 --> 02:02:11.750]  You're beginning to think that the tube is reality, and that your own lives are unreal!
[02:02:12.650 --> 02:02:15.010]  You do whatever the tube tells you!
[02:02:15.070 --> 02:02:20.390]  You dress like the tube, you ache like the tube, you raise your table like the tube, you even think like the tube!
[02:02:20.950 --> 02:02:24.130]  This is mass madness, you maniacs!
[02:02:24.530 --> 02:02:27.870]  You people are the real thing, we are the illusion!
[02:02:27.870 --> 02:02:30.010]  So turn off your...